Welcome to The Vegan Report, my name is Ryan,
and what is your idea of the perfect vegan date?
Well, I have a suggestion for you. On the weekend
of December 6 and 7, the Vegan Christmas Market
of Montreal will be in full bloom. It is a delicious
initiative, bringing together the entire vegan
community of Quebec, including many new food
vegan entrepreneurs, eager to test their products
and I will be there to try everything. This is
an amazing opportunity to kick off the holiday
season and meet inspiring vegans, starting with
Anne Pham, the founder of the Vegan Christmas
Market, as well as Body Gourmet and Boyda Outwear.
I sat down with her to discuss the 2025 edition
of the market, like the surprises waiting for
us, We also talked about Beyond Meat and the
bad press around it, why mock meat is not just
for new vegans, how dating carnists may be the
most effective form of vegan activism, and much
more. A special thank you to the restaurant Chaillot,
which opened its doors for us before opening
hours. After the recording, we enjoyed the delicious
vegan Thai meal. I truly recommend that restaurant.
Visit the episode notes to get more details about
the vegan Christmas market. And I know this week
is a challenging one for many vegans because
of the Thanksgiving massacre. And so I want to
offer you this episode as an island of positivity
and good vibes. I hope it puts you in a good
mood. And for more thoughtful episodes with inspiring
vegan leaders like Anne, follow the show and
share the joy of this episode with the vegans
you know. Thank you. start the holiday season
with a wonderful episode with Anne talking about
the vegan Christmas market. So there's quite,
it's quite noisy. And there's a reason for that.
Let me start with this. Where are we, Anne? We
are building a new vegan world. No, just kidding.
We're in a restaurant right now. What's the name
of the restaurant? This is the amazing, amazing
vegan Thai restaurant that probably many of you
know, Chao in Montreal. So we are doing, we are
recording the podcast here today. And if I understood
correctly, this is the first time you're recording
out of your studio. Yes. First time recording
outside of my home office and first time recording
in a restaurant. First time here at Chao. Never
ate here, but we have plans to get a meal. So
how is the food here? The food here is really,
really, really good. I've brought a few non -vegan
friends here before, and they love it. So this
is a place to bring your non -vegan friends to
convince them that you can eat plant -based.
Amazing. And we were brainstorming, you know,
the location of this podcast, recording this
podcast. And I did not realize how many vegan
restaurants there are in the Mount Royale neighborhood.
It's amazing. It's like a vegan hub here. Yeah,
yeah. I mean, the plateau is like full of vegan
restaurants and it's great. I mean, you have
so many vegan sushi around here. Yeah, you have
your choice of place to go here. Amazing. I love
that. I love that about Montreal. Okay, Anne,
this is a wonderful segue to talk about the festival
of this year because I think Chaillot is a partner
of this year's festival. Well, so every year
we have during our... our Christmas market, we
always have raffles and we always invite restaurants
to contribute gift certificates and this year
Chai You among a few other restaurants they're
participating so they're basically sponsoring
the the raffle part of the the event so the people
who attend they'll have a chance to win a prize
and if they do win then it's a gift certificate
to try the restaurant. Amazing. Last year's vegan
Christmas market was wonderful. I tried so many
new products, adopted new brands. What should
we expect for this year's edition? So this year's
edition, we have a few new names that I'm pretty
excited about. So there's new vegan products
that I have not seen in the market yet. So I'm
pretty excited to have them reveal their products
to the attendees. Yeah. So you guys would just
have to come and see. I won't do a spoiler alert
yet. Give us names. All right, I'll give you
one name. So one of the vendors actually offer
vegan foie gras. So I'm pretty excited about
that. It's Les Goulues. That's the name of the
vendor. And I'm just really excited because I
myself have not tried their products and I have
not seen them anywhere yet. Even at the recent,
I believe the vegan festival recently, I did
not see them if I'm not mistaken. So I think
this is gonna be a first event for them. Have
you ever tried non -vegan foie gras? No, I have
not just because even before I went vegan just
the idea of knowing how they they treat the the
ducks To create that that dish. It just repulsed
me so much that I never tried it So I don't have
an accurate I would say comparison But that's
fine. You know, I don't need to try every single
thing on earth Well, it's a popular dish during
the holidays and here in Quebec there's this
strong French culture and it's like fundamental
to French culture foie gras it's everywhere yeah
especially in old cuisine it seems to be like
the dish to try but you know if you know how
they make that dish they have to basically force
feed the ducks to the degree I mean imagine when
you have a medical procedure where you like you
insert a tube to a camera to examine your stomach
how painful that is and they have to usually
numb your throat to do that so they do the same
thing to ducks but this is a bigger tube because
they force feed them and there's no numbing like
an aesthetic or anything right they do this like
regularly to feed the ducks It's just so much
cruelty. I cannot even imagine how someone would
come up with such a dish. It's almost psychotic.
It is psychotic. It's not almost, it is psychotic.
The French in particular use lots of animal products.
It's so crazy. But we all do. I mean, all cultures
eat meat, but I mean... And I'm not targeting
the French specifically, but I mean, it's just
how do you come up with a dish that you have
to like torture an animal to enjoy it? I just
don't understand that. So even before I went
vegan, as soon as I heard how they made that
dish, I'm like, okay, I'm not trying this anywhere,
you know? Yeah, I had the same. I have the same
feeling towards lamb. You know, it's a baby.
It's basically a baby. You're eating babies.
Completely disgusting. I just I can't and also
it tastes amazing. I have to say from When I
was not vegan, you know, I remember the taste
of it. I loved it. I loved it So yeah, we're
all monsters Yeah, well that's that's humanity
for you What what is that expression the banality
of evil yeah it's it's concerning though that
it's so like normalized that you just show up
at a restaurant you see foie gras on the menu
and you just think oh wow you know and you don't
even think how they create that dish you just
think oh this is luxury let's order it it's Christmas
you know very true and in fact it can bring up
in someone memories, happy memories, happy family
memories. So it's attached to something very
wholesome. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of dishes have tradition
attached to them. And that's unfortunate. I mean,
that's also the challenge, I think, in convincing
people to let go of certain dishes because it's
attached to emotions, right? Attached to family
memories, attached to all these things that are...
culture based. So yeah, I mean, that's a challenge,
I think. Well, let's talk about family because
it's the big theme of the holidays. It's spending
time with your family and having those sensitive
conversations about, you know, yes, I'm vegan
and Auntie, no. butter is not vegan, you tried
but you failed, the cake is not actually vegan.
There are so many misunderstandings still about
what is veganism and that's what's so great about
those products that imitate animal products.
You can bring them as an alternative to those
family gatherings and basically help the world
accommodate your lifestyle and diet? Yeah, I
mean like without those alternatives, I think
veganism would not progress the way that it has.
So in a way, whether it's my Christmas market,
my vegan Christmas market or other vegan festivals,
they have a place and they're really important
in progressing, in advancing the vegan cause.
Because I think without these products, I mean,
you can go out there and convince people, talk
to people and tell them, oh, it's very cruel
to do this and that. But day to day, what are
people supposed to eat? You know, if they're
used to certain types of dishes, and then you
just tell them, well, now just replace them with
veggies. That's not very attractive to most people,
you know. That's not attractive at all. And there
is this, you know, There are some vegans out
there who are absolutely against those mock meat
products and alternatives and they want you to
go full vegan or even in marginal cases, raw
vegan and all of that. But if I think about my
personal experience, I'm still using mock meat
products. I still love that. use them regularly.
I don't see that as like a help to transition
to a vegan diet. It's my vegan diet. It's my
everyday normal. Yeah. I mean, I think I feel
the same way as you. I have a more of, I guess,
utilitarian way of seeing veganism. So me, it's,
you know, whatever does the most good for the
most people. And, you know, if that means you
eat mock meat, then so be it. You know, and if
those people who are not into mock meats well
then just don't eat it but let other people eat
it like there's nothing wrong with it you know
exactly it's the the taste that we're seeking
it's not so much you know the animal and the
animal product right um and we have been brought
up with that we've been imprinted with those
tastes and habits and and asking people to give
them up entirely is a much bigger ask than just
adapting their diet with some alternatives. Yeah.
And I think, unfortunately, some non -vegans,
they actually use that as kind of an argument,
like, you know, the mock means they're not healthy.
Why are you eating that? You know, why don't
you just eat a real steak instead of a mock steak?
It's it's an excuse, I find, you know, and for
us vegans to put that out there is like, we're
almost backing that argument, you know, that,
oh, don't touch mock meats. If you don't like
vegetables, then what else is there? That kills
me. Yeah. Okay. What do you make of what's happening
with Beyond Meat? I feel like they're dominating
the news with how bad they are at doing business.
I don't understand what's going on because like
There was a time in the beginning when every
restaurant was adopting Beyond Meat, right? I
remember that. And then just gradually, I just
feel like they've been dropped. And the product's
actually not bad. I don't get it. I don't quite
get it. And the stocks have sunk so much. And
unfortunately, I bought some of those stocks.
Oh, my God. It's painful. Oh, no. Yeah. Well,
I... told that to Miyoko Shinner in a previous
episode, I told her how my parents have not yet
adopted a vegan diet or lifestyle. I'm still
hoping, I still have faith in being able to convince
them, but I've been able to convince them to
donate money to vegan causes or even invest in
vegan businesses. My dad was complaining like
a few months ago about how his Beyond Meat stocks
were just sinking. Sunk, not sinking, but sunk.
Like there are under, you know, Earth's crust.
It's becoming a penny stock, really. It's really
unfortunate. And I don't know why. I mean, are
their financials that bad? I mean, I don't understand
the whole like behind the scene what's going
on there. But like, I don't like, I don't know,
there are worse companies to invest in. I don't
know how they've gone so bad. I don't either.
Last May, I went to the Vegan Summit, Animal
Advocacy Vegan Summit, and there I met one of
the co -founders of Beyond Meat. And I asked
him a few questions. Where's my money? My dad
is very unhappy about you and With with their
I guess their main point to explain why this
is going bad is We got some pushback from big
ag like a big marketing campaign against us demonizing
our products Telling people how unhealthy our
products are compared to real meat So yeah, I
think that's how they justify their business
failure. Do you know how Impossible Meat is doing?
I'm not sure. I haven't followed there because
that's their competitor, Impossible Meat. Basically,
they have very similar products, but we don't
hear Impossible Meat in the market. Are they
public? Are they traded? I don't know. I don't
know. Beyond Meat is pretty bad. The stocks,
I mean, not the actual product. I actually like
the products a lot. I also love their products
and I will say it publicly, I prefer Beyond Meat
to Impossible. Yeah, I do too. And they have
the variety that I like. They have the steak
tips now, which you can make a lot of dishes
in Vietnamese cuisine that I've been missing.
So yeah, I'm all for Beyond Meat. Climbing back
up at some point. Yeah, I think at this point,
all we can do is pray for them. Pray, yeah. Invoke
divinity at this point. Yes. I mean, I don't
see how we can be of any more help. I invited
them on the podcast. What did they say? They
said they're too busy. So yeah, I'm sure they
have a lot on their plate. No pun intended. Do
you think it's a bad omen for other vegan businesses
that are offering mock meat products? I've heard
that comments quite a few times recently that
the vegan market is actually not expanding as
much as people anticipated. It's unfortunate
that that seems to be the case. I've heard that
vegan cheeses may be also very um like I've actually
heard this from grocery stores because I sometimes
meet with people, sell buyers I mean for my products
and they tell me they go like you know the vegan
cheeses are not doing that well so we're like
we're a little bit unsure of bringing in more
vegan products um so yeah I'm not sure is it
the demand that's that's not as high as they
would have hoped? Or is it actually shrinking?
I'm not quite sure what the situation is in the
market. Well, you know, I think the economy as
a whole is doing bad. So I'm sure, you know,
the demand is not there. Is it a surprise that
vegan cheese is doing badly? But there are so
many brands. But on the flip side, I see a lot
of tofu brands springing up, like a lot of them,
like this brand, that brand, everyone's doing
tofu now. So maybe that's hope there. Maybe people
are just staying away from the vegan cheese,
but they're buying more tofu. I don't know. That's
fascinating. Yeah, I've seen a lot of new tofu
brands popping up. They must be doing well. If
the grocery stores are buying them, they're not
buying products that don't sell, right? So if
they're buying them, it's because there's a demand
for them. Absolutely. And they're cheaper products.
Yeah, that's a good point. And then there was
a demonization of soy, but I guess to who is
not affected by that. That's interesting. How
do entrepreneurs feel? about the market and their
chances at succeeding. And I'm asking that knowing
that you are an entrepreneur with a line of products.
I always find it challenging when I meet a buyer
at a grocery store because you always have to
justify, you know, is this going to have a lot
of demands and you don't always have those numbers.
And that's because it's a vegan product. So that's
the challenge there. But that's also a good selling
point too, because a lot of times they're looking
for novelty and they actually like the fact that,
you know, my sauce is like the fish sauce without
the fish. So I see it both ways. I see it as
a plus, but also it could be a minus. Well, you
know, I agree about the novelty part. I'm always
looking for that novelty factor. If I see a new
product at my grocery store, I will purchase
that product, vegan product. I always go and
visit the plant -based section just for that.
It's the equivalent of refreshing your web page
or your email thing, when you're waiting for
an important email or something. Yeah, I do that
all the time. It's become obsessive. Yeah, I
like seeing new products at a grocery store,
new vegan brands, new vegan alternatives. It's
exciting when you go into the freezer and you
see all these new brands that are coming up with
the frozen dinner that are vegan. Yes. Even non
-vegan brands are actually adding in like vegan
options in the frozen dinner. So I guess there
is some demand. There must be demand, otherwise
it wouldn't do that. But why is it that certain
companies are not doing well, like beyond meat?
I don't know. It's beyond me. No pun intended.
Well, it depends of their expectations. I think
they won't like to be... valued for billions
but maybe it's aiming too high. Yeah like I guess
it's also how the companies run you know there's
all that aspects of business that we were not
privy to I guess and you know what they say about
innovative product products they say if it's
like new about maybe 10 to 15 percent innovation,
then people are more ready to adopt them. But
if it's like completely new, then it's actually
harder to get people to switch over because there's
like the whole education part that you have to
tackle. And I think that's where Beyond Meat
might fall into because they were early, they're
in the market, right? They were the first one
to do the ground meat that's vegan. And I guess
they had to use a lot of their funds to educate
people. And now they're running dry. Yeah, okay.
Let's change the subject. I feel we're not helping
them right now. No, but this is just to say that,
you know, like vegans out there, you know, please
don't like demonize all these mock vegan products
because they have a place in the cause. Right.
So if you don't like them, nothing forced you
to buy these products. Just eat your veggies
and that's fine. But there are other people that
are into those products. And if it's one animal
less that's being killed, what's the issue? You
know, and if you think it's unhealthy, that's
fair. But then eat the stuff that you think is
healthy. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, let's
talk about cell -based meat. Because I've been
talking with lots of people who are actually
opposing cell -based meat or lab -grown meat.
The cell meat people don't like that term anyway.
So I've been inviting John Stanisku No, Johnson
Bonnatsu, sorry. Miyoko Shinner, recently Vasili.
They're all people who strongly oppose those
lab -grown meat schemes. They think it's not
going to work. And I've been receptive to their
arguments. But I'm not, you know, choosing a
team. I'm just, you know, covering that issue.
And there is a debate there. And if, you know,
Miyoko Shiner is against that, I'm sure plenty
of other vegans are also against that. I've tried
to get the other side represented on the show.
I've not been successful at that. And I think
it's because they fear tough questions. They
have stakeholders, they have investors. It's
not the best to appear on a podcast where they
get challenging questions. I should not say that,
but I'll say it. I tried to get the CEO of the
Good Food Institute, Bruce, on my show. They
said he's too busy. And then his publishing company,
because he has a new book. contacted me without
knowing that I tried to reach out to him, asking
me to welcome him on the podcast. And I said,
yes, of course I will promote his book and welcome
him on. And then a few weeks later, I received
an email from his assistant saying, hey, Bruce
is actually busy. He'll be free next year, like
in March or something. He backed out, he chickened
out. And I want to say, Bruce, please, if you're
listening, I won't be, you know, I'm not, I'm
not like ideologic. ideologic about this issue.
I'm open to being receptive to lab -grown products.
I think it's fine. What's your opinion on that?
Do you think it's the future? I think it will
probably be the future. I mean, I've heard a
lot of, I think there are some Israeli companies
that are already working on that, like sell meats.
You know, my only reservation is how it's being
cultivated in the sense that to make the first
like, Do they have to like, let's say hurt an
animal? Do they have to, you know, kill an animal
to get the cells? Like I don't know how the process
is being carried out. So that's the only reservation
I have is that do we need to exploit animals
to a certain degree to create all these replicas?
So in that aspect, I have some reservation, but
if that's not an issue, then I'm not actually
against him. I'm not against that at all. And
I think it probably goes back to the same thing
as the mock meats like Beyond Meat or Impossible
Meat. It's a mock product, right? So I think
we'll have the same arguments again. Why don't
you just eat carrots and mushrooms? Why do you
need to go and imitate a piece of steak? I agree.
If it was on the market, like readily available,
I would absolutely purchase those products. I
don't. I feel okay saying that. Yeah, and the
only caveat I get is like they have to make sure
that because it's cultivating cells, is it safe
for people to eat? They have to do all the testing
to prove that it's safe for human consumption,
obviously, right? Just like any products. But
beyond that, I wouldn't have an issue with it.
There's no ethical issue that I find there unless
you're telling me they have to kill a bunch of
animals to create the meat and that's something
else. But without that, there's no ethical issue
from my perspective. Well, I'm afraid of their
marketing game, because if they're afraid of
the vegan report, like appearing on the vegan
report, how are they going to deal with conservative
podcasts like Jorgen? Because as soon as they
launch their products on in growth, should we
stop? Should we stop the moment? As soon as they're
going to launch their product in different grocery
stores, they'll get like a thousand Joe Rogan's
going on their million listeners, audience, talking
about how this is not natural, this is weird,
this is like transhumanism or whatever. So they
need to at least appear on somewhat challenging
like media, independent medias and test their
ideas, preparing for that tsunami of a position
that I'm expecting. Yeah, it's they're in a tough
position, right? Because there's, you know, people
might view this as Frankenstein meat, right?
It's exactly that's the that's going to be the
the image that they get attached to. So I'm not
sure. of how their marketing is gonna go, but
that's gonna be a real challenge. It's gonna
be a real challenge on both sides, both to convince
the vegans that this is okay to eat and to convince
the non -vegans that this is, you can eat this,
you're not gonna turn into some monster. Yeah,
like a version of vaccine deniers or something.
It's gonna be very polarized. It's gonna be very
controversial. Very much so. And there are already
conservative states that are making this into
a religious issue. It's never ending. I don't
mind transhumanism. Create a clone of me. I don't
see the ethical issues. I don't know. I think
if any of these companies going to go to market,
I'm going to wait a little bit before I buy stocks.
Another reason to be afraid of how successful.
You're a vegan and you're someone who likes new
products and experimenting. So if you have those
reservations, then I can't imagine how the public
at large will react. Yeah, because the opinion
is always, you know, why do you eat something
artificial when you can eat something natural?
That's always the argument I hear over and over
again from the non -vegans, even from the vegans,
right? They're like, why don't you just eat much
veggies? Why do you eat mock meats? So we're
gonna hear that to the end of time, I think,
that argument. So for the sell meats, I have
low hope for them to avoid all of these criticism.
but they'll just have to market it really smartly.
It's gonna be a challenge. But if you think about
it, I mean, if you think about robots, people
are adopting, I mean, people have reservations
about that, but there's also a lot of people
who are very open to that idea, right? So maybe
they could take a page from how robots are going
to be marketed and maybe get inspired to how
they can market their innovative meats. I know
you love the topic of robots. We always end up
talking about robots. Don't worry, I also love
the topic. I would absolutely purchase a robot
like a domestic robot or something at home. I
don't care about the Terminator being a warning.
Like, I'll do it. I'm just so fascinated by that.
And I feel like, you know, in terms of privacy,
we're already all, you know, toasts from using
the internet and social media. what else are
they going to learn about me? Well, I mean, if
you just think about chat GPT, everybody is already
using it, right? So we're moving in that direction,
whether you like it or not. Yeah, that's that's
scary. Chat GPT. People are so reliant on it
and it has its limitations, yet people don't
seem to realize that. And there are more and
more stories coming up about how, you know, Jack
GPD is, in one case, has pushed a teenage kid
to suicide. And actually the robot told the kid,
you know, don't talk to your parents. Like a
psychopath, it manipulated the kid, isolated
the kid, and then pushed it to suicide. And it's
so dystopian, you know. to think so. Yeah, there
is no public safety measures around that. We're
all you know, it's the Wild West right now. Do
you feel that? Do you feel that that's where
that we're in that much of a danger? Like I heard
of that story of that kid that who committed
suicide and that's very unfortunate, for sure.
But you know, I don't have all the facts behind
that. Like I didn't see any of the any of the
exchanges between the kid and JatchiPT, so I
can't really speak to that. But if you've used
JatchiPT, you'll know that it can sway its responses
based on how you interact with it, right? So
it's very easy for me to, let's say, talk to
it in a way that it will respond to me by convincing
me to do something, even if it's bad for me.
It can be manipulated, right? So, even with a
therapist, a human therapist, you can do that
too. The therapist doesn't know everything about
you. It only knows what you tell him or her.
Right? So if I only speak about the things I
do that are good, and I just present myself in
a certain way, then the therapist wouldn't know
the bad things that I've done or whatever. So
it may not know every motivation I have, everything
that I do. So in that sense, I wouldn't be so
quick on blaming chat GPT for every, you know,
incidents out there where someone is harmed after
using chat GPT, because to me, that's almost
equivalent to let's say, especially when people
talk about banning, you know, the use of that
type of technology, I find it's a bit alarmist.
Yes. And it's almost like saying let's ban water
because people have drowned in water, you know.
Of course, you can drown in water, but it's also
very useful. So I don't know. It's a tool. To
me, it's a tool, and it can be misused. And yes,
we need to have safety implemented. We need to
have guardrails and all of that stuff. But to
ban it or to demonize it, I don't know. I wouldn't
go so far, because there's a lot of good that
can come out of it. Just think about the amount
of people out there that are lonely, that don't
have anybody to talk to, you know, that could
very well be on the brink of committing suicide,
but because they have JTPT, they could speak
to, who knows, maybe that saved at least one
life out there, right? That's a really good point.
There are people who are lonely and I guess nobody
is ready to be like a friend or let's say responsible.
for the well -being of that person. So we can
delegate that to ChatGPD. And I prefer that than,
you know, getting them a dog or like a sentient
being who can suffer from, you know, that relationship.
I know how sometimes, you know, we present animals
as being therapy tools. So that's an alternative
to that. Or you can get a robot dog. Our robot
dog. Thank you. I want that for my birthday.
Yeah, I mean, all these technologies to me, they're
all like tools that can have very good use for
to help us. Right. So I don't I just I'm just
very reluctant to demonize all these tools, you
know, even when you hear the bad side of what
has happened to certain people. just like the
internet. There's so many bad things that are
happening on the internet, but I would not dream
of banning the internet, right? It's just, it's,
yeah. You know, in dystopian movies, how there's
always a band of rebel humans, like who are living,
like the Amish people. I feel like there'll be
lots of raw vegan, you know, communists being
part of that. rebel bands. Yeah, my feeling.
Okay, I'm trying to find a topic to segue into
going back to the vegan Christmas market. I hope
someday that I could have a vendor that have
maybe some sort of vegan products that's been
created using AI. You know, that would be really
nice to see. Absolutely. Yes. Actually, I heard
this. There's a brand out there of vegan dairy.
It's an alternative to milk that's called, I
think, not milk. And if I'm not mistaken, I think
they created the recipe for their milk using
AI. It doesn't surprise me because it doesn't
taste that good. I think it has pineapple in
it or something. Yeah, but not milk. Actually
avoid that brand. Well, I think they have a series.
I think it's the same company, not milk and not
burger and not something else. I think it's the
same company. But not burgers, actually not bad.
I will test them at least once. I'll give them
a chance. I promise. Talking about awesome gifts
we want to get. What's the best gift you could
offer to a vegan? You mean that a gift that's
not food, because I think any food would be a
good gift for a non -vegan. For vegan or non
-vegan, you were saying? A vegan. A vegan? Yes.
Any vegan food is a great gift. But a non -vegan,
I mean, a non -food gift, we actually have a
lot of, quite a few beauty and body products
brands that are at the market this year. I always
try to encourage those brands because, you know,
when you buy stuff like the stuff in the pharmacies
and you don't know how, like you see the list
of ingredients, but you don't know which ingredients
in there are actually animal based, especially
when they come with the names or like, you know,
Latin names or whatever. But when you buy the
vegan brands and you can be sure that it's a
hundred percent. vegan ingredients, not animal
tested. Yes. Um, yeah, so I, that could be a
good gift. Yeah, I agree. It's, I always use
Yuka now. It's my guru. It decides, you know,
if something, um, is welcome in my house and
stomach and skin. Uh, I highly recommend that
app. I think it saved me years of, uh, My answer
to that is a gift to a vegan charity. If someone
wants to make a gift to me during the holidays,
please make a donation in my name to a great
vegan charity. That would make me very happy.
Yeah, I was going to name a few charities I don't
like. This is Rayan's gift list, so listen up.
I mean, very altruistic of me, but yes, I will
actually release the... Tomorrow, Wednesday,
the Science of Activism episode will be... has
been recorded by the animal charity evaluator
team, and they go into their top 10 recommended
charities. And so, yeah, please consider making
a donation to one of those charities. Yeah, I
mean, like, yeah, I mean, aside products, if
you cannot like go out and do your own activism
as in, you know, you cannot stand on a street
corner and talk to people about veganism because
that's not your thing. I think the next thing
is to donate to vegan charities. That makes the
most sense. Yeah. And, you know, it's that idea
of effective altruism, right? Where you try to
create the most change, you know, by delegating
your money to an organization that's that's dedicated
in doing that work so that you put your money
to work because you can't do it all by yourself.
So yeah, that's a great idea for Christmas gifts.
Yes. Does it appeal to you that idea of effective
altruism? It appeals to me, yes. Despite what
has happened with that movement, I think there
was some criticism because of the founders, some
sort of scandal that was related to them. But
putting all that stuff aside, putting all the
drama aside, I mean, that idea is not bad, right?
If you can't, I mean, it's not if you can't,
nobody can take on a cause on their own. So donating
your money to an organization that can take care
of it at large scale, that makes the most sense
to me, I guess. Yes, really good point. Be careful
because during this holiday season, you'll receive
calls from charities and often the people doing
the calling are not employees of that charity.
They're actually outside agencies and every gift
you make through them, they get a percentage
out of that going into their profit margin. their
corporations, you know, they're not charities
themselves, those agencies. And lots of people
don't know that. But yeah, be careful, because
I think it speaks to the the ethical principles
of the charity that recruits that agency. You
should at least be transparent with your donors
and tell them, hey, basically, if you're making
a donation through me because of me, because
of this call, we'll take a percentage. But of
course, they won't tell that to people. Well,
it's probably safer, I guess, to just research
your own organization that you want to support.
whether it's a animal sanctuary or some other
type of organization, just research it yourself
and donate directly. That skips the middleman,
I guess, instead of waiting for that phone call
that asks you to donate. True. I mean, I love
calling donors, but cold calls to donors, it's
hard. There's lots of scam right now. We were
talking about AI. It's so easy to use AI to imitate
the voice of someone. So don't fall for this.
Yeah. Even if you, it sounds like your mom calling,
asking for a donation. It's probably not your
mom asking for a donation. No, it's not your
mom. I can confirm that. Like my family decided
to adopt a password, like a family password,
just in case. So yeah, I recommend that to, you
know, decide on a password. Yeah. Yeah. That's
a good idea. Okay, going back to the vegan Christmas
market of this year. Where is it? Yeah, what
is the the whole logistics? So I I'll mention
it during the introduction. Last year we had
a hall near Place des Arts. This year we switched
to a different hall but also very close to Place
des Arts Metro. It's literally like two steps
away. It's a different venue. It's a nice venue.
Last year we had to go upstairs. This year it's
like street level. It's a very nice venue and
we'll have two rooms that are connected. Um,
so that's where it's going to be. It's at 175
avenue to president Kennedy. Uh, so it's right
downtown. There's no excuse to not go because
it's so close to downtown. I mean, it's, it's
central. So that's what's great about this venue.
And, uh, yeah, it's funny. You pronounce a president
Kennedy in French instead of English. But yeah,
I mean, if you're living in the U S think about.
coming in Montreal during this time of the year.
Come and visit the vegan Christmas market, see
what's out there on the vegan scene and explore
Montreal during this time of the year. It's so
romantic here during the holiday season. And
we have snow. It's amazing. Yes, we have snow
this year. Yeah. You can take beautiful pictures.
Yeah. And this is like... Christmas market seasons,
right? There's so many Christmas markets around
and the vegan Christmas market is one of them.
But basically, if you visit Montreal, this is
like you can visit so many markets that are happening
on that weekend. Yeah, and it's also close by
a skating rink there. So there's so many things
to do in downtown area. that come and visit.
And you were saying about the Americans, and
yesterday I was out downtown distributing the
flyers for the Lincoln Christmas Market. I do
this every year. I distribute flyers, even though
I don't know how many people are looking at flyers
these days. Very old -fashioned of you. You have
that version of you interested in robots and
AI. The other version, distributing flyers in
the streets. Yeah, and I do not use the phone
book, by the way. But anyways. Yes, I actually...
distributed the flyers at a hotel that was near
near the venue because i'm thinking like people
who travel and who stay at the hotel they come
down to the lobby they always have a concierge
right where they have like flyers of different
events in and around the hotel so i put the christmas
market uh flyers there hopefully they'll bring
in some tourists good call good call yeah it
is a popular destination um during the holiday
season. There's also lots of, you know, family
gatherings in Montreal, you know, people from
all over the world coming back to their parents'
house here. So yeah, it's a beautiful season.
Yeah. And the event is actually quite family
friendly. So, you know, even if you're not a
tourist and you have kids, you know, bring the
family to the Christmas market. It's indoor,
so it's comfortable. You're not freezing outside.
There's interesting products. There's hot chocolate.
There's all kinds of nice things for kids. There's
no alcohol whatsoever, so you don't have to worry
about that stuff. You just have to accompany
your kids because when the vendors distribute
the samples, we try to ask that the parents accompany
their kids just for safety. But yeah, it's a
very family -friendly event. Nice. Yeah. No after
party. No after party. The other vegan Christmas
market. Yeah. You're giving me ideas now. Next
year. Well, I do think it's a perfect initiative
for dating. stuff, what is it called? Blind dates.
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, between vegans, I feel like,
you know, I know lots of lots of vegans in general,
I was going to say male vegans, but also, you
know, female vegans who are looking for a significant
other who shares their vegan values and They're
struggling. They're truly struggling and I don't
know what to say. Like I'm not better. It's unfortunate.
They're not a lot of like dating Activities are
aimed at vegans. You kind of have to like go
to those mixed events where you don't know who's
vegan and who's not. So it's hard for people
if anyone is looking for a partner that's exclusively
vegan. So I get the challenge. You're giving
me an idea. Maybe we could have some sort of
activity next year in a Christmas market. Like,
you know, that vegans can hang out like a mixer
type of activity. I don't know. Just thinking
out loud. At the very least, you know, go and
meet fellow vegans. I say it every year. Or a
secret Santa thing. Thank you. Yes, I will participate.
Just for making friends. Don't have to think
about romance and whatever. Just breaking that
solitude that lots of vegans can feel during
the holidays. It's a great initiative for that.
But for this year, since we don't have a mixer
organized, I mean, if anybody out there is looking
for an activity to do, you know, to invite a
vegan friend and walk the market, that's a non
-committal activity. That was the theme of last
year's episode. You know, I think I titled the
episode Bring a Carnist to the Vegan Christmas
Market. You know, like sometimes people feel
like if they Ask somebody out for dinner that
it's maybe too serious. Yes Come by the Christmas
market. It's it's you know, it's friendly. There's
a lot of people around so it's safe And you have
fun I'm selling the market in every possible
angle here We should title this episode vegan
Christmas market non -commental fun this year
we help you find the love of your life this year
is the year just go there go find the magic the
vegan christmas magic uh it will happen count
on it yes you know what i saw on one of the vegan
facebook groups which i am a part of obviously
someone was talking about dating at one point
they were saying how hard it is to find someone
who is vegan because You don't know who on the
street is vegan, so it's hard to just figure
out who is vegan. And somebody else was saying,
well, you just go into a grocery store and you
stand in front of the tofu section. That's how
you get a vegan. I just think that was so funny.
And I'm thinking, you don't have to do that.
Just come to the Christmas market. Most people
there are vegan. Who said that? It's a non -vegan.
It's like Big Ag or something. It's actually
a vegan, I think. As a joke, I think. But yeah,
you don't have to do that awkward thing. You
don't have to go stand in front of a tofu section
at a grocery store. Just come to the vegan Christmas
market. You'll meet plenty of people there. Who
wants to date the tofu creep who's there? That's
so weird. I mean, there are vegan dating signs,
but I've been told that they're full of bots.
Pita actually organized a blind date, virtual
blind date. I think I saw the ads, but they put
a lot of ads for that event, I think. Yeah. Well,
I have a friend who attended and participated
and he said it was a disaster, you know, from
his perspective, did not find anyone interesting.
And yeah, it was awkward because it was all virtual.
So, yeah, yeah. So the market is there. The demand
for that is there. And just need to find a good
service of products. Yeah, it's true. It's actually
a need in the market. So if anybody out there
is looking for a project, I mean, this is a good
because there's actual need. You just need the
product or the service that meets that need.
The idea is there. I mean, I think there's one
vegan app, right? Dating app? I keep seeing their
ads all over Instagram. That's like one, right?
And how many dating apps do you have for non
-vegans? So many. They're not even targeting
me. Can you imagine? They're not targeting you.
Well, they're targeting. I thought that was not
an interesting profile. Yeah, I don't know. There's
so many things that can be done, I think. Yes.
Yeah. I mean, keep an eye open. and door open
to that possibility. It's always fun. Yeah. But
what's your perspective on this? Do you think
that a vegan should only date another person
who is vegan or no? No, I don't think that. I
don't believe that. I actually know a vegan fundraiser.
She's like an activist, a true activist like
us. deep into the vegan rabbit hole. But her
husband is not vegan and it's okay. They're making
it work and I think it's not the end of the world.
I think actually it's better to either conquer
through dating the hearts and minds and appetites
of non -vegans. um i think that's the ultimate
form of activism thank you yes it is it actually
is go find the carnist out there and date them
marry them yeah give your life and your heart
away to the cause go for it it's true sacrifice
yes Okay, so the music started. Yes. They reopened.
Yes, they reopened. And once again, we're at
Chai Yo, the vegan Thai restaurant, which explains
all the background noise. But yeah, so I think
it's a good time to stop this recording. Did
you want to add something before we stop the
conversation? No, I think we've covered a lot
of things. Yes. It was an amazing conversation.
Always fun to talk with you, Anne. Thank you
for doing this every year. And people, I hope
you smiled during this conversation. You laughed
and got your dose of positivity for the day.
Thank you, everyone, for listening. Thank you,
Ryan. Thank you for creating this amazing platform.
that's that's your form of activism and and it's
it's wonderful really and thank you for your
support for the vegan christmas market year after
year it means a lot to me thank you of course
and i'm looking forward to visiting the christmas
market again this year it's also my personal
tradition uh if you see me ignore me no i'm kidding
Come and let's take a picture or something. Yes.
See you there. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank
you everyone for listening. I kindly invite you
to share this podcast with the vegans, you know,
let's encourage more people to take action again.
Thank you so much for caring and I will see you
next Tuesday for a new episode.