WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.120 Welcome to The Vegan Report, my name is Ryan, 00:00:03.459 --> 00:00:07.660 and what is your idea of the perfect vegan date? 00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:11.800 Well, I have a suggestion for you. On the weekend 00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:15.480 of December 6 and 7, the Vegan Christmas Market 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:20.379 of Montreal will be in full bloom. It is a delicious 00:00:20.379 --> 00:00:23.640 initiative, bringing together the entire vegan 00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:28.239 community of Quebec, including many new food 00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:32.200 vegan entrepreneurs, eager to test their products 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:36.100 and I will be there to try everything. This is 00:00:36.100 --> 00:00:39.380 an amazing opportunity to kick off the holiday 00:00:39.380 --> 00:00:43.759 season and meet inspiring vegans, starting with 00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:46.460 Anne Pham, the founder of the Vegan Christmas 00:00:46.460 --> 00:00:50.700 Market, as well as Body Gourmet and Boyda Outwear. 00:00:51.380 --> 00:00:55.039 I sat down with her to discuss the 2025 edition 00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:58.520 of the market, like the surprises waiting for 00:00:58.520 --> 00:01:02.490 us, We also talked about Beyond Meat and the 00:01:02.490 --> 00:01:06.689 bad press around it, why mock meat is not just 00:01:06.689 --> 00:01:11.030 for new vegans, how dating carnists may be the 00:01:11.030 --> 00:01:14.909 most effective form of vegan activism, and much 00:01:14.909 --> 00:01:18.689 more. A special thank you to the restaurant Chaillot, 00:01:19.090 --> 00:01:22.370 which opened its doors for us before opening 00:01:22.370 --> 00:01:26.299 hours. After the recording, we enjoyed the delicious 00:01:26.299 --> 00:01:30.299 vegan Thai meal. I truly recommend that restaurant. 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:34.359 Visit the episode notes to get more details about 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:37.719 the vegan Christmas market. And I know this week 00:01:37.719 --> 00:01:40.780 is a challenging one for many vegans because 00:01:40.780 --> 00:01:44.819 of the Thanksgiving massacre. And so I want to 00:01:44.819 --> 00:01:48.340 offer you this episode as an island of positivity 00:01:48.340 --> 00:01:52.239 and good vibes. I hope it puts you in a good 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:56.400 mood. And for more thoughtful episodes with inspiring 00:01:56.400 --> 00:02:00.200 vegan leaders like Anne, follow the show and 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:03.099 share the joy of this episode with the vegans 00:02:03.099 --> 00:02:19.560 you know. Thank you. start the holiday season 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:23.599 with a wonderful episode with Anne talking about 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:27.960 the vegan Christmas market. So there's quite, 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:33.259 it's quite noisy. And there's a reason for that. 00:02:33.580 --> 00:02:37.919 Let me start with this. Where are we, Anne? We 00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:41.139 are building a new vegan world. No, just kidding. 00:02:41.340 --> 00:02:45.580 We're in a restaurant right now. What's the name 00:02:45.580 --> 00:02:48.580 of the restaurant? This is the amazing, amazing 00:02:48.580 --> 00:02:51.439 vegan Thai restaurant that probably many of you 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:55.180 know, Chao in Montreal. So we are doing, we are 00:02:55.180 --> 00:02:57.900 recording the podcast here today. And if I understood 00:02:57.900 --> 00:02:59.780 correctly, this is the first time you're recording 00:02:59.780 --> 00:03:03.340 out of your studio. Yes. First time recording 00:03:03.340 --> 00:03:07.000 outside of my home office and first time recording 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:12.409 in a restaurant. First time here at Chao. Never 00:03:12.409 --> 00:03:18.229 ate here, but we have plans to get a meal. So 00:03:18.229 --> 00:03:22.610 how is the food here? The food here is really, 00:03:22.610 --> 00:03:29.009 really, really good. I've brought a few non -vegan 00:03:29.009 --> 00:03:34.789 friends here before, and they love it. So this 00:03:34.789 --> 00:03:37.090 is a place to bring your non -vegan friends to 00:03:37.090 --> 00:03:39.289 convince them that you can eat plant -based. 00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:42.719 Amazing. And we were brainstorming, you know, 00:03:42.819 --> 00:03:46.099 the location of this podcast, recording this 00:03:46.099 --> 00:03:50.860 podcast. And I did not realize how many vegan 00:03:50.860 --> 00:03:55.819 restaurants there are in the Mount Royale neighborhood. 00:03:56.060 --> 00:03:59.139 It's amazing. It's like a vegan hub here. Yeah, 00:03:59.180 --> 00:04:01.919 yeah. I mean, the plateau is like full of vegan 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:05.219 restaurants and it's great. I mean, you have 00:04:05.219 --> 00:04:09.539 so many vegan sushi around here. Yeah, you have 00:04:09.539 --> 00:04:12.900 your choice of place to go here. Amazing. I love 00:04:12.900 --> 00:04:17.699 that. I love that about Montreal. Okay, Anne, 00:04:19.480 --> 00:04:23.420 this is a wonderful segue to talk about the festival 00:04:23.420 --> 00:04:26.240 of this year because I think Chaillot is a partner 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:29.779 of this year's festival. Well, so every year 00:04:29.779 --> 00:04:33.339 we have during our... our Christmas market, we 00:04:33.339 --> 00:04:37.720 always have raffles and we always invite restaurants 00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:42.779 to contribute gift certificates and this year 00:04:42.779 --> 00:04:45.240 Chai You among a few other restaurants they're 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:49.259 participating so they're basically sponsoring 00:04:49.259 --> 00:04:54.220 the the raffle part of the the event so the people 00:04:54.220 --> 00:04:57.360 who attend they'll have a chance to win a prize 00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:59.139 and if they do win then it's a gift certificate 00:04:59.139 --> 00:05:04.879 to try the restaurant. Amazing. Last year's vegan 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:09.519 Christmas market was wonderful. I tried so many 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:15.220 new products, adopted new brands. What should 00:05:15.220 --> 00:05:19.399 we expect for this year's edition? So this year's 00:05:19.399 --> 00:05:24.459 edition, we have a few new names that I'm pretty 00:05:24.459 --> 00:05:26.779 excited about. So there's new vegan products 00:05:26.779 --> 00:05:29.639 that I have not seen in the market yet. So I'm 00:05:29.639 --> 00:05:33.259 pretty excited to have them reveal their products 00:05:33.259 --> 00:05:36.899 to the attendees. Yeah. So you guys would just 00:05:36.899 --> 00:05:40.620 have to come and see. I won't do a spoiler alert 00:05:40.620 --> 00:05:45.060 yet. Give us names. All right, I'll give you 00:05:45.060 --> 00:05:49.680 one name. So one of the vendors actually offer 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:54.459 vegan foie gras. So I'm pretty excited about 00:05:54.459 --> 00:05:57.379 that. It's Les Goulues. That's the name of the 00:05:57.379 --> 00:05:59.680 vendor. And I'm just really excited because I 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:01.980 myself have not tried their products and I have 00:06:01.980 --> 00:06:06.040 not seen them anywhere yet. Even at the recent, 00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:08.699 I believe the vegan festival recently, I did 00:06:08.699 --> 00:06:11.139 not see them if I'm not mistaken. So I think 00:06:11.139 --> 00:06:16.360 this is gonna be a first event for them. Have 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:20.959 you ever tried non -vegan foie gras? No, I have 00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:23.139 not just because even before I went vegan just 00:06:23.139 --> 00:06:26.420 the idea of knowing how they they treat the the 00:06:26.420 --> 00:06:30.180 ducks To create that that dish. It just repulsed 00:06:30.180 --> 00:06:34.000 me so much that I never tried it So I don't have 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:38.000 an accurate I would say comparison But that's 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:39.660 fine. You know, I don't need to try every single 00:06:39.660 --> 00:06:44.279 thing on earth Well, it's a popular dish during 00:06:44.279 --> 00:06:47.740 the holidays and here in Quebec there's this 00:06:48.139 --> 00:06:52.120 strong French culture and it's like fundamental 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:55.439 to French culture foie gras it's everywhere yeah 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:58.079 especially in old cuisine it seems to be like 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:03.000 the dish to try but you know if you know how 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:05.740 they make that dish they have to basically force 00:07:05.740 --> 00:07:09.750 feed the ducks to the degree I mean imagine when 00:07:09.750 --> 00:07:12.250 you have a medical procedure where you like you 00:07:12.250 --> 00:07:15.569 insert a tube to a camera to examine your stomach 00:07:15.569 --> 00:07:18.069 how painful that is and they have to usually 00:07:18.069 --> 00:07:21.430 numb your throat to do that so they do the same 00:07:21.430 --> 00:07:23.790 thing to ducks but this is a bigger tube because 00:07:23.790 --> 00:07:26.509 they force feed them and there's no numbing like 00:07:26.509 --> 00:07:29.569 an aesthetic or anything right they do this like 00:07:29.569 --> 00:07:33.079 regularly to feed the ducks It's just so much 00:07:33.079 --> 00:07:35.620 cruelty. I cannot even imagine how someone would 00:07:35.620 --> 00:07:39.180 come up with such a dish. It's almost psychotic. 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:42.519 It is psychotic. It's not almost, it is psychotic. 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:48.160 The French in particular use lots of animal products. 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:52.660 It's so crazy. But we all do. I mean, all cultures 00:07:52.660 --> 00:07:55.850 eat meat, but I mean... And I'm not targeting 00:07:55.850 --> 00:07:58.350 the French specifically, but I mean, it's just 00:07:58.350 --> 00:08:00.089 how do you come up with a dish that you have 00:08:00.089 --> 00:08:02.970 to like torture an animal to enjoy it? I just 00:08:02.970 --> 00:08:05.170 don't understand that. So even before I went 00:08:05.170 --> 00:08:07.709 vegan, as soon as I heard how they made that 00:08:07.709 --> 00:08:10.009 dish, I'm like, okay, I'm not trying this anywhere, 00:08:10.009 --> 00:08:14.709 you know? Yeah, I had the same. I have the same 00:08:14.709 --> 00:08:20.110 feeling towards lamb. You know, it's a baby. 00:08:20.470 --> 00:08:22.670 It's basically a baby. You're eating babies. 00:08:23.659 --> 00:08:28.379 Completely disgusting. I just I can't and also 00:08:28.379 --> 00:08:32.840 it tastes amazing. I have to say from When I 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:35.220 was not vegan, you know, I remember the taste 00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:40.179 of it. I loved it. I loved it So yeah, we're 00:08:40.179 --> 00:08:46.120 all monsters Yeah, well that's that's humanity 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:50.639 for you What what is that expression the banality 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:56.750 of evil yeah it's it's concerning though that 00:08:56.750 --> 00:09:01.269 it's so like normalized that you just show up 00:09:01.269 --> 00:09:03.409 at a restaurant you see foie gras on the menu 00:09:03.409 --> 00:09:05.629 and you just think oh wow you know and you don't 00:09:05.629 --> 00:09:08.730 even think how they create that dish you just 00:09:08.730 --> 00:09:11.129 think oh this is luxury let's order it it's Christmas 00:09:11.129 --> 00:09:15.909 you know very true and in fact it can bring up 00:09:15.909 --> 00:09:20.210 in someone memories, happy memories, happy family 00:09:20.210 --> 00:09:23.350 memories. So it's attached to something very 00:09:23.350 --> 00:09:27.110 wholesome. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of dishes have tradition 00:09:27.110 --> 00:09:30.269 attached to them. And that's unfortunate. I mean, 00:09:30.289 --> 00:09:34.389 that's also the challenge, I think, in convincing 00:09:34.389 --> 00:09:39.269 people to let go of certain dishes because it's 00:09:39.269 --> 00:09:41.830 attached to emotions, right? Attached to family 00:09:41.830 --> 00:09:45.970 memories, attached to all these things that are... 00:09:45.789 --> 00:09:50.610 culture based. So yeah, I mean, that's a challenge, 00:09:50.610 --> 00:09:53.610 I think. Well, let's talk about family because 00:09:53.610 --> 00:09:57.389 it's the big theme of the holidays. It's spending 00:09:57.389 --> 00:10:00.809 time with your family and having those sensitive 00:10:00.809 --> 00:10:04.090 conversations about, you know, yes, I'm vegan 00:10:04.090 --> 00:10:09.679 and Auntie, no. butter is not vegan, you tried 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:13.279 but you failed, the cake is not actually vegan. 00:10:13.860 --> 00:10:16.980 There are so many misunderstandings still about 00:10:16.980 --> 00:10:21.419 what is veganism and that's what's so great about 00:10:21.419 --> 00:10:25.960 those products that imitate animal products. 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:31.379 You can bring them as an alternative to those 00:10:31.379 --> 00:10:35.340 family gatherings and basically help the world 00:10:35.340 --> 00:10:40.779 accommodate your lifestyle and diet? Yeah, I 00:10:40.779 --> 00:10:44.259 mean like without those alternatives, I think 00:10:44.259 --> 00:10:47.799 veganism would not progress the way that it has. 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:52.220 So in a way, whether it's my Christmas market, 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:55.600 my vegan Christmas market or other vegan festivals, 00:10:56.419 --> 00:10:58.320 they have a place and they're really important 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:02.559 in progressing, in advancing the vegan cause. 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:06.139 Because I think without these products, I mean, 00:11:06.139 --> 00:11:08.000 you can go out there and convince people, talk 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:10.039 to people and tell them, oh, it's very cruel 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:13.500 to do this and that. But day to day, what are 00:11:13.500 --> 00:11:15.700 people supposed to eat? You know, if they're 00:11:15.700 --> 00:11:18.460 used to certain types of dishes, and then you 00:11:18.460 --> 00:11:20.340 just tell them, well, now just replace them with 00:11:20.340 --> 00:11:23.080 veggies. That's not very attractive to most people, 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:30.580 you know. That's not attractive at all. And there 00:11:30.580 --> 00:11:34.399 is this, you know, There are some vegans out 00:11:34.399 --> 00:11:40.720 there who are absolutely against those mock meat 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:45.019 products and alternatives and they want you to 00:11:45.019 --> 00:11:50.399 go full vegan or even in marginal cases, raw 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:55.279 vegan and all of that. But if I think about my 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:57.700 personal experience, I'm still using mock meat 00:11:57.700 --> 00:12:02.419 products. I still love that. use them regularly. 00:12:03.500 --> 00:12:07.559 I don't see that as like a help to transition 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:12.000 to a vegan diet. It's my vegan diet. It's my 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:15.860 everyday normal. Yeah. I mean, I think I feel 00:12:15.860 --> 00:12:18.899 the same way as you. I have a more of, I guess, 00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:22.019 utilitarian way of seeing veganism. So me, it's, 00:12:22.019 --> 00:12:23.940 you know, whatever does the most good for the 00:12:23.940 --> 00:12:25.879 most people. And, you know, if that means you 00:12:25.879 --> 00:12:28.220 eat mock meat, then so be it. You know, and if 00:12:28.220 --> 00:12:30.759 those people who are not into mock meats well 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:32.399 then just don't eat it but let other people eat 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:35.360 it like there's nothing wrong with it you know 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:38.899 exactly it's the the taste that we're seeking 00:12:38.899 --> 00:12:41.820 it's not so much you know the animal and the 00:12:41.820 --> 00:12:45.759 animal product right um and we have been brought 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:49.659 up with that we've been imprinted with those 00:12:49.659 --> 00:12:53.850 tastes and habits and and asking people to give 00:12:53.850 --> 00:12:58.090 them up entirely is a much bigger ask than just 00:12:58.090 --> 00:13:01.669 adapting their diet with some alternatives. Yeah. 00:13:01.990 --> 00:13:04.210 And I think, unfortunately, some non -vegans, 00:13:04.309 --> 00:13:06.789 they actually use that as kind of an argument, 00:13:07.070 --> 00:13:09.049 like, you know, the mock means they're not healthy. 00:13:09.610 --> 00:13:11.169 Why are you eating that? You know, why don't 00:13:11.169 --> 00:13:13.250 you just eat a real steak instead of a mock steak? 00:13:14.190 --> 00:13:17.299 It's it's an excuse, I find, you know, and for 00:13:17.299 --> 00:13:19.919 us vegans to put that out there is like, we're 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:22.440 almost backing that argument, you know, that, 00:13:22.659 --> 00:13:24.419 oh, don't touch mock meats. If you don't like 00:13:24.419 --> 00:13:28.879 vegetables, then what else is there? That kills 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:32.000 me. Yeah. Okay. What do you make of what's happening 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:35.759 with Beyond Meat? I feel like they're dominating 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:39.500 the news with how bad they are at doing business. 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:42.919 I don't understand what's going on because like 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:45.600 There was a time in the beginning when every 00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:49.440 restaurant was adopting Beyond Meat, right? I 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:52.580 remember that. And then just gradually, I just 00:13:52.580 --> 00:13:55.379 feel like they've been dropped. And the product's 00:13:55.379 --> 00:13:57.820 actually not bad. I don't get it. I don't quite 00:13:57.820 --> 00:14:01.759 get it. And the stocks have sunk so much. And 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:03.600 unfortunately, I bought some of those stocks. 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:09.419 Oh, my God. It's painful. Oh, no. Yeah. Well, 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:13.289 I... told that to Miyoko Shinner in a previous 00:14:13.289 --> 00:14:17.950 episode, I told her how my parents have not yet 00:14:17.950 --> 00:14:22.330 adopted a vegan diet or lifestyle. I'm still 00:14:22.330 --> 00:14:25.649 hoping, I still have faith in being able to convince 00:14:25.649 --> 00:14:28.669 them, but I've been able to convince them to 00:14:28.669 --> 00:14:33.129 donate money to vegan causes or even invest in 00:14:33.129 --> 00:14:38.080 vegan businesses. My dad was complaining like 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:42.039 a few months ago about how his Beyond Meat stocks 00:14:42.039 --> 00:14:47.139 were just sinking. Sunk, not sinking, but sunk. 00:14:49.299 --> 00:14:52.960 Like there are under, you know, Earth's crust. 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:56.120 It's becoming a penny stock, really. It's really 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:58.980 unfortunate. And I don't know why. I mean, are 00:14:58.980 --> 00:15:01.220 their financials that bad? I mean, I don't understand 00:15:01.220 --> 00:15:04.019 the whole like behind the scene what's going 00:15:04.019 --> 00:15:07.000 on there. But like, I don't like, I don't know, 00:15:07.100 --> 00:15:08.720 there are worse companies to invest in. I don't 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:13.480 know how they've gone so bad. I don't either. 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:20.000 Last May, I went to the Vegan Summit, Animal 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:24.000 Advocacy Vegan Summit, and there I met one of 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:28.000 the co -founders of Beyond Meat. And I asked 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:33.190 him a few questions. Where's my money? My dad 00:15:33.190 --> 00:15:39.710 is very unhappy about you and With with their 00:15:39.710 --> 00:15:43.850 I guess their main point to explain why this 00:15:43.850 --> 00:15:47.590 is going bad is We got some pushback from big 00:15:47.590 --> 00:15:52.669 ag like a big marketing campaign against us demonizing 00:15:52.669 --> 00:15:56.330 our products Telling people how unhealthy our 00:15:56.330 --> 00:16:00.620 products are compared to real meat So yeah, I 00:16:00.620 --> 00:16:03.600 think that's how they justify their business 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:10.379 failure. Do you know how Impossible Meat is doing? 00:16:10.580 --> 00:16:12.460 I'm not sure. I haven't followed there because 00:16:12.460 --> 00:16:16.039 that's their competitor, Impossible Meat. Basically, 00:16:16.039 --> 00:16:18.139 they have very similar products, but we don't 00:16:18.139 --> 00:16:21.000 hear Impossible Meat in the market. Are they 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:24.740 public? Are they traded? I don't know. I don't 00:16:24.740 --> 00:16:29.870 know. Beyond Meat is pretty bad. The stocks, 00:16:30.070 --> 00:16:33.029 I mean, not the actual product. I actually like 00:16:33.029 --> 00:16:36.250 the products a lot. I also love their products 00:16:36.250 --> 00:16:41.809 and I will say it publicly, I prefer Beyond Meat 00:16:41.809 --> 00:16:46.289 to Impossible. Yeah, I do too. And they have 00:16:46.289 --> 00:16:48.350 the variety that I like. They have the steak 00:16:48.350 --> 00:16:51.730 tips now, which you can make a lot of dishes 00:16:51.730 --> 00:16:54.350 in Vietnamese cuisine that I've been missing. 00:16:54.750 --> 00:16:57.950 So yeah, I'm all for Beyond Meat. Climbing back 00:16:57.950 --> 00:17:02.070 up at some point. Yeah, I think at this point, 00:17:02.250 --> 00:17:06.970 all we can do is pray for them. Pray, yeah. Invoke 00:17:06.970 --> 00:17:10.069 divinity at this point. Yes. I mean, I don't 00:17:10.069 --> 00:17:15.730 see how we can be of any more help. I invited 00:17:15.730 --> 00:17:20.609 them on the podcast. What did they say? They 00:17:20.609 --> 00:17:23.710 said they're too busy. So yeah, I'm sure they 00:17:23.710 --> 00:17:29.180 have a lot on their plate. No pun intended. Do 00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:33.480 you think it's a bad omen for other vegan businesses 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:37.759 that are offering mock meat products? I've heard 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.759 that comments quite a few times recently that 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:44.819 the vegan market is actually not expanding as 00:17:44.819 --> 00:17:49.619 much as people anticipated. It's unfortunate 00:17:49.619 --> 00:17:52.319 that that seems to be the case. I've heard that 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:57.240 vegan cheeses may be also very um like I've actually 00:17:57.240 --> 00:17:59.559 heard this from grocery stores because I sometimes 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:02.299 meet with people, sell buyers I mean for my products 00:18:02.299 --> 00:18:04.440 and they tell me they go like you know the vegan 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:07.140 cheeses are not doing that well so we're like 00:18:07.140 --> 00:18:09.519 we're a little bit unsure of bringing in more 00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:14.140 vegan products um so yeah I'm not sure is it 00:18:14.140 --> 00:18:17.059 the demand that's that's not as high as they 00:18:17.059 --> 00:18:20.319 would have hoped? Or is it actually shrinking? 00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:23.400 I'm not quite sure what the situation is in the 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:28.059 market. Well, you know, I think the economy as 00:18:28.059 --> 00:18:31.200 a whole is doing bad. So I'm sure, you know, 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:35.940 the demand is not there. Is it a surprise that 00:18:35.940 --> 00:18:39.940 vegan cheese is doing badly? But there are so 00:18:39.940 --> 00:18:44.240 many brands. But on the flip side, I see a lot 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:46.880 of tofu brands springing up, like a lot of them, 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:49.339 like this brand, that brand, everyone's doing 00:18:49.339 --> 00:18:54.660 tofu now. So maybe that's hope there. Maybe people 00:18:54.660 --> 00:18:56.880 are just staying away from the vegan cheese, 00:18:56.900 --> 00:18:59.779 but they're buying more tofu. I don't know. That's 00:18:59.779 --> 00:19:04.400 fascinating. Yeah, I've seen a lot of new tofu 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:07.690 brands popping up. They must be doing well. If 00:19:07.690 --> 00:19:09.730 the grocery stores are buying them, they're not 00:19:09.730 --> 00:19:11.789 buying products that don't sell, right? So if 00:19:11.789 --> 00:19:13.730 they're buying them, it's because there's a demand 00:19:13.730 --> 00:19:17.970 for them. Absolutely. And they're cheaper products. 00:19:18.529 --> 00:19:21.470 Yeah, that's a good point. And then there was 00:19:21.470 --> 00:19:26.970 a demonization of soy, but I guess to who is 00:19:26.970 --> 00:19:31.170 not affected by that. That's interesting. How 00:19:31.170 --> 00:19:36.359 do entrepreneurs feel? about the market and their 00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:41.240 chances at succeeding. And I'm asking that knowing 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:43.940 that you are an entrepreneur with a line of products. 00:19:45.299 --> 00:19:47.759 I always find it challenging when I meet a buyer 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:50.619 at a grocery store because you always have to 00:19:50.619 --> 00:19:53.859 justify, you know, is this going to have a lot 00:19:53.859 --> 00:19:57.059 of demands and you don't always have those numbers. 00:19:57.740 --> 00:20:01.839 And that's because it's a vegan product. So that's 00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:07.200 the challenge there. But that's also a good selling 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:08.980 point too, because a lot of times they're looking 00:20:08.980 --> 00:20:12.619 for novelty and they actually like the fact that, 00:20:12.619 --> 00:20:14.519 you know, my sauce is like the fish sauce without 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:18.920 the fish. So I see it both ways. I see it as 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:23.799 a plus, but also it could be a minus. Well, you 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:28.240 know, I agree about the novelty part. I'm always 00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:32.000 looking for that novelty factor. If I see a new 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:35.720 product at my grocery store, I will purchase 00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:42.119 that product, vegan product. I always go and 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:47.519 visit the plant -based section just for that. 00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:52.380 It's the equivalent of refreshing your web page 00:20:52.380 --> 00:20:56.880 or your email thing, when you're waiting for 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:00.579 an important email or something. Yeah, I do that 00:21:00.579 --> 00:21:04.859 all the time. It's become obsessive. Yeah, I 00:21:04.859 --> 00:21:07.140 like seeing new products at a grocery store, 00:21:07.339 --> 00:21:10.599 new vegan brands, new vegan alternatives. It's 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:12.720 exciting when you go into the freezer and you 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:15.359 see all these new brands that are coming up with 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:19.369 the frozen dinner that are vegan. Yes. Even non 00:21:19.369 --> 00:21:22.529 -vegan brands are actually adding in like vegan 00:21:22.529 --> 00:21:26.049 options in the frozen dinner. So I guess there 00:21:26.049 --> 00:21:28.130 is some demand. There must be demand, otherwise 00:21:28.130 --> 00:21:32.190 it wouldn't do that. But why is it that certain 00:21:32.190 --> 00:21:34.250 companies are not doing well, like beyond meat? 00:21:34.990 --> 00:21:37.230 I don't know. It's beyond me. No pun intended. 00:21:40.150 --> 00:21:43.529 Well, it depends of their expectations. I think 00:21:43.529 --> 00:21:48.460 they won't like to be... valued for billions 00:21:48.460 --> 00:21:53.140 but maybe it's aiming too high. Yeah like I guess 00:21:53.140 --> 00:21:55.519 it's also how the companies run you know there's 00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:57.519 all that aspects of business that we were not 00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:01.900 privy to I guess and you know what they say about 00:22:01.900 --> 00:22:04.200 innovative product products they say if it's 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:07.900 like new about maybe 10 to 15 percent innovation, 00:22:08.019 --> 00:22:10.299 then people are more ready to adopt them. But 00:22:10.299 --> 00:22:12.259 if it's like completely new, then it's actually 00:22:12.259 --> 00:22:15.380 harder to get people to switch over because there's 00:22:15.380 --> 00:22:17.680 like the whole education part that you have to 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:20.359 tackle. And I think that's where Beyond Meat 00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:23.740 might fall into because they were early, they're 00:22:23.740 --> 00:22:25.220 in the market, right? They were the first one 00:22:25.220 --> 00:22:30.480 to do the ground meat that's vegan. And I guess 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.480 they had to use a lot of their funds to educate 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:39.960 people. And now they're running dry. Yeah, okay. 00:22:40.019 --> 00:22:43.940 Let's change the subject. I feel we're not helping 00:22:43.940 --> 00:22:48.019 them right now. No, but this is just to say that, 00:22:48.019 --> 00:22:50.819 you know, like vegans out there, you know, please 00:22:50.819 --> 00:22:54.119 don't like demonize all these mock vegan products 00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:58.380 because they have a place in the cause. Right. 00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:01.460 So if you don't like them, nothing forced you 00:23:01.460 --> 00:23:04.440 to buy these products. Just eat your veggies 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:06.619 and that's fine. But there are other people that 00:23:06.619 --> 00:23:10.000 are into those products. And if it's one animal 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:13.960 less that's being killed, what's the issue? You 00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:16.599 know, and if you think it's unhealthy, that's 00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:19.180 fair. But then eat the stuff that you think is 00:23:19.180 --> 00:23:27.900 healthy. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, let's 00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:35.220 talk about cell -based meat. Because I've been 00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:39.019 talking with lots of people who are actually 00:23:39.019 --> 00:23:46.359 opposing cell -based meat or lab -grown meat. 00:23:47.180 --> 00:23:50.380 The cell meat people don't like that term anyway. 00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:58.079 So I've been inviting John Stanisku No, Johnson 00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:02.960 Bonnatsu, sorry. Miyoko Shinner, recently Vasili. 00:24:03.819 --> 00:24:07.799 They're all people who strongly oppose those 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:11.460 lab -grown meat schemes. They think it's not 00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:15.039 going to work. And I've been receptive to their 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:19.779 arguments. But I'm not, you know, choosing a 00:24:19.779 --> 00:24:23.500 team. I'm just, you know, covering that issue. 00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:26.700 And there is a debate there. And if, you know, 00:24:26.819 --> 00:24:29.819 Miyoko Shiner is against that, I'm sure plenty 00:24:29.819 --> 00:24:36.839 of other vegans are also against that. I've tried 00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:41.240 to get the other side represented on the show. 00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:43.940 I've not been successful at that. And I think 00:24:43.940 --> 00:24:48.619 it's because they fear tough questions. They 00:24:48.619 --> 00:24:53.400 have stakeholders, they have investors. It's 00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:56.799 not the best to appear on a podcast where they 00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:01.440 get challenging questions. I should not say that, 00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:05.859 but I'll say it. I tried to get the CEO of the 00:25:05.859 --> 00:25:10.240 Good Food Institute, Bruce, on my show. They 00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:13.579 said he's too busy. And then his publishing company, 00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:16.279 because he has a new book. contacted me without 00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:19.720 knowing that I tried to reach out to him, asking 00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:24.160 me to welcome him on the podcast. And I said, 00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:27.579 yes, of course I will promote his book and welcome 00:25:27.579 --> 00:25:32.490 him on. And then a few weeks later, I received 00:25:32.490 --> 00:25:36.009 an email from his assistant saying, hey, Bruce 00:25:36.009 --> 00:25:40.950 is actually busy. He'll be free next year, like 00:25:40.950 --> 00:25:47.269 in March or something. He backed out, he chickened 00:25:47.269 --> 00:25:52.490 out. And I want to say, Bruce, please, if you're 00:25:52.490 --> 00:25:57.490 listening, I won't be, you know, I'm not, I'm 00:25:57.490 --> 00:26:03.789 not like ideologic. ideologic about this issue. 00:26:03.950 --> 00:26:10.809 I'm open to being receptive to lab -grown products. 00:26:11.029 --> 00:26:15.609 I think it's fine. What's your opinion on that? 00:26:15.769 --> 00:26:20.920 Do you think it's the future? I think it will 00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:22.900 probably be the future. I mean, I've heard a 00:26:22.900 --> 00:26:25.819 lot of, I think there are some Israeli companies 00:26:25.819 --> 00:26:30.400 that are already working on that, like sell meats. 00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:37.660 You know, my only reservation is how it's being 00:26:37.660 --> 00:26:42.019 cultivated in the sense that to make the first 00:26:42.019 --> 00:26:45.859 like, Do they have to like, let's say hurt an 00:26:45.859 --> 00:26:48.259 animal? Do they have to, you know, kill an animal 00:26:48.259 --> 00:26:50.599 to get the cells? Like I don't know how the process 00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:53.519 is being carried out. So that's the only reservation 00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:55.859 I have is that do we need to exploit animals 00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:59.160 to a certain degree to create all these replicas? 00:26:59.960 --> 00:27:03.180 So in that aspect, I have some reservation, but 00:27:03.180 --> 00:27:06.200 if that's not an issue, then I'm not actually 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:10.059 against him. I'm not against that at all. And 00:27:10.059 --> 00:27:12.140 I think it probably goes back to the same thing 00:27:12.140 --> 00:27:15.039 as the mock meats like Beyond Meat or Impossible 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:18.019 Meat. It's a mock product, right? So I think 00:27:18.019 --> 00:27:20.099 we'll have the same arguments again. Why don't 00:27:20.099 --> 00:27:22.579 you just eat carrots and mushrooms? Why do you 00:27:22.579 --> 00:27:27.039 need to go and imitate a piece of steak? I agree. 00:27:27.380 --> 00:27:31.819 If it was on the market, like readily available, 00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:36.220 I would absolutely purchase those products. I 00:27:36.220 --> 00:27:39.769 don't. I feel okay saying that. Yeah, and the 00:27:39.769 --> 00:27:42.049 only caveat I get is like they have to make sure 00:27:42.049 --> 00:27:46.950 that because it's cultivating cells, is it safe 00:27:46.950 --> 00:27:49.329 for people to eat? They have to do all the testing 00:27:49.329 --> 00:27:52.450 to prove that it's safe for human consumption, 00:27:52.750 --> 00:27:55.109 obviously, right? Just like any products. But 00:27:55.109 --> 00:27:57.890 beyond that, I wouldn't have an issue with it. 00:27:58.049 --> 00:28:00.210 There's no ethical issue that I find there unless 00:28:00.210 --> 00:28:02.130 you're telling me they have to kill a bunch of 00:28:02.130 --> 00:28:04.089 animals to create the meat and that's something 00:28:04.089 --> 00:28:07.660 else. But without that, there's no ethical issue 00:28:07.660 --> 00:28:12.299 from my perspective. Well, I'm afraid of their 00:28:12.299 --> 00:28:15.119 marketing game, because if they're afraid of 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:17.619 the vegan report, like appearing on the vegan 00:28:17.619 --> 00:28:21.759 report, how are they going to deal with conservative 00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:26.180 podcasts like Jorgen? Because as soon as they 00:28:26.180 --> 00:28:30.640 launch their products on in growth, should we 00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:37.690 stop? Should we stop the moment? As soon as they're 00:28:37.690 --> 00:28:41.170 going to launch their product in different grocery 00:28:41.170 --> 00:28:45.349 stores, they'll get like a thousand Joe Rogan's 00:28:45.349 --> 00:28:49.950 going on their million listeners, audience, talking 00:28:49.950 --> 00:28:53.650 about how this is not natural, this is weird, 00:28:53.849 --> 00:28:57.809 this is like transhumanism or whatever. So they 00:28:57.809 --> 00:29:02.529 need to at least appear on somewhat challenging 00:29:02.529 --> 00:29:07.650 like media, independent medias and test their 00:29:07.650 --> 00:29:12.809 ideas, preparing for that tsunami of a position 00:29:12.809 --> 00:29:18.029 that I'm expecting. Yeah, it's they're in a tough 00:29:18.029 --> 00:29:21.589 position, right? Because there's, you know, people 00:29:21.589 --> 00:29:23.990 might view this as Frankenstein meat, right? 00:29:24.230 --> 00:29:27.829 It's exactly that's the that's going to be the 00:29:27.829 --> 00:29:31.410 the image that they get attached to. So I'm not 00:29:31.410 --> 00:29:33.480 sure. of how their marketing is gonna go, but 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:35.559 that's gonna be a real challenge. It's gonna 00:29:35.559 --> 00:29:37.720 be a real challenge on both sides, both to convince 00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:40.299 the vegans that this is okay to eat and to convince 00:29:40.299 --> 00:29:43.420 the non -vegans that this is, you can eat this, 00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:49.200 you're not gonna turn into some monster. Yeah, 00:29:49.259 --> 00:29:54.619 like a version of vaccine deniers or something. 00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:00.259 It's gonna be very polarized. It's gonna be very 00:30:00.259 --> 00:30:05.089 controversial. Very much so. And there are already 00:30:05.089 --> 00:30:08.289 conservative states that are making this into 00:30:08.289 --> 00:30:16.769 a religious issue. It's never ending. I don't 00:30:16.769 --> 00:30:22.869 mind transhumanism. Create a clone of me. I don't 00:30:22.869 --> 00:30:29.220 see the ethical issues. I don't know. I think 00:30:29.220 --> 00:30:32.759 if any of these companies going to go to market, 00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:35.019 I'm going to wait a little bit before I buy stocks. 00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:43.599 Another reason to be afraid of how successful. 00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:47.920 You're a vegan and you're someone who likes new 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:51.579 products and experimenting. So if you have those 00:30:51.579 --> 00:30:55.680 reservations, then I can't imagine how the public 00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:59.269 at large will react. Yeah, because the opinion 00:30:59.269 --> 00:31:01.230 is always, you know, why do you eat something 00:31:01.230 --> 00:31:03.309 artificial when you can eat something natural? 00:31:03.569 --> 00:31:06.390 That's always the argument I hear over and over 00:31:06.390 --> 00:31:09.789 again from the non -vegans, even from the vegans, 00:31:09.910 --> 00:31:11.490 right? They're like, why don't you just eat much 00:31:11.490 --> 00:31:14.150 veggies? Why do you eat mock meats? So we're 00:31:14.150 --> 00:31:15.869 gonna hear that to the end of time, I think, 00:31:15.930 --> 00:31:20.269 that argument. So for the sell meats, I have 00:31:20.269 --> 00:31:24.710 low hope for them to avoid all of these criticism. 00:31:25.230 --> 00:31:28.029 but they'll just have to market it really smartly. 00:31:28.430 --> 00:31:31.650 It's gonna be a challenge. But if you think about 00:31:31.650 --> 00:31:34.069 it, I mean, if you think about robots, people 00:31:34.069 --> 00:31:36.750 are adopting, I mean, people have reservations 00:31:36.750 --> 00:31:38.890 about that, but there's also a lot of people 00:31:38.890 --> 00:31:43.670 who are very open to that idea, right? So maybe 00:31:43.670 --> 00:31:47.569 they could take a page from how robots are going 00:31:47.569 --> 00:31:50.250 to be marketed and maybe get inspired to how 00:31:50.250 --> 00:31:53.890 they can market their innovative meats. I know 00:31:53.890 --> 00:31:58.950 you love the topic of robots. We always end up 00:31:58.950 --> 00:32:04.829 talking about robots. Don't worry, I also love 00:32:04.829 --> 00:32:09.019 the topic. I would absolutely purchase a robot 00:32:09.019 --> 00:32:13.200 like a domestic robot or something at home. I 00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:16.039 don't care about the Terminator being a warning. 00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:20.380 Like, I'll do it. I'm just so fascinated by that. 00:32:20.819 --> 00:32:23.779 And I feel like, you know, in terms of privacy, 00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:28.880 we're already all, you know, toasts from using 00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:33.509 the internet and social media. what else are 00:32:33.509 --> 00:32:36.890 they going to learn about me? Well, I mean, if 00:32:36.890 --> 00:32:39.170 you just think about chat GPT, everybody is already 00:32:39.170 --> 00:32:42.509 using it, right? So we're moving in that direction, 00:32:42.849 --> 00:32:47.789 whether you like it or not. Yeah, that's that's 00:32:47.789 --> 00:32:53.029 scary. Chat GPT. People are so reliant on it 00:32:53.029 --> 00:32:56.130 and it has its limitations, yet people don't 00:32:56.130 --> 00:33:01.269 seem to realize that. And there are more and 00:33:01.269 --> 00:33:05.609 more stories coming up about how, you know, Jack 00:33:05.609 --> 00:33:12.789 GPD is, in one case, has pushed a teenage kid 00:33:12.789 --> 00:33:17.190 to suicide. And actually the robot told the kid, 00:33:17.210 --> 00:33:21.170 you know, don't talk to your parents. Like a 00:33:21.170 --> 00:33:25.630 psychopath, it manipulated the kid, isolated 00:33:25.630 --> 00:33:29.890 the kid, and then pushed it to suicide. And it's 00:33:29.890 --> 00:33:34.029 so dystopian, you know. to think so. Yeah, there 00:33:34.029 --> 00:33:38.529 is no public safety measures around that. We're 00:33:38.529 --> 00:33:43.509 all you know, it's the Wild West right now. Do 00:33:43.509 --> 00:33:45.670 you feel that? Do you feel that that's where 00:33:45.670 --> 00:33:49.289 that we're in that much of a danger? Like I heard 00:33:49.289 --> 00:33:52.190 of that story of that kid that who committed 00:33:52.190 --> 00:33:56.009 suicide and that's very unfortunate, for sure. 00:33:57.130 --> 00:33:59.509 But you know, I don't have all the facts behind 00:33:59.509 --> 00:34:01.769 that. Like I didn't see any of the any of the 00:34:01.769 --> 00:34:04.450 exchanges between the kid and JatchiPT, so I 00:34:04.450 --> 00:34:09.150 can't really speak to that. But if you've used 00:34:09.150 --> 00:34:12.650 JatchiPT, you'll know that it can sway its responses 00:34:12.650 --> 00:34:15.289 based on how you interact with it, right? So 00:34:15.289 --> 00:34:19.570 it's very easy for me to, let's say, talk to 00:34:19.570 --> 00:34:23.610 it in a way that it will respond to me by convincing 00:34:23.610 --> 00:34:25.789 me to do something, even if it's bad for me. 00:34:25.969 --> 00:34:33.280 It can be manipulated, right? So, even with a 00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:35.260 therapist, a human therapist, you can do that 00:34:35.260 --> 00:34:37.780 too. The therapist doesn't know everything about 00:34:37.780 --> 00:34:41.920 you. It only knows what you tell him or her. 00:34:42.539 --> 00:34:45.800 Right? So if I only speak about the things I 00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:48.219 do that are good, and I just present myself in 00:34:48.219 --> 00:34:50.659 a certain way, then the therapist wouldn't know 00:34:50.659 --> 00:34:53.780 the bad things that I've done or whatever. So 00:34:53.780 --> 00:34:57.519 it may not know every motivation I have, everything 00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:02.099 that I do. So in that sense, I wouldn't be so 00:35:02.099 --> 00:35:05.139 quick on blaming chat GPT for every, you know, 00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:08.539 incidents out there where someone is harmed after 00:35:08.539 --> 00:35:11.260 using chat GPT, because to me, that's almost 00:35:11.260 --> 00:35:15.199 equivalent to let's say, especially when people 00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:17.880 talk about banning, you know, the use of that 00:35:17.880 --> 00:35:20.719 type of technology, I find it's a bit alarmist. 00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:24.139 Yes. And it's almost like saying let's ban water 00:35:24.139 --> 00:35:27.280 because people have drowned in water, you know. 00:35:28.110 --> 00:35:30.750 Of course, you can drown in water, but it's also 00:35:30.750 --> 00:35:35.750 very useful. So I don't know. It's a tool. To 00:35:35.750 --> 00:35:38.829 me, it's a tool, and it can be misused. And yes, 00:35:38.869 --> 00:35:42.429 we need to have safety implemented. We need to 00:35:42.429 --> 00:35:47.269 have guardrails and all of that stuff. But to 00:35:47.269 --> 00:35:51.309 ban it or to demonize it, I don't know. I wouldn't 00:35:51.309 --> 00:35:55.030 go so far, because there's a lot of good that 00:35:55.030 --> 00:35:58.369 can come out of it. Just think about the amount 00:35:58.369 --> 00:36:00.849 of people out there that are lonely, that don't 00:36:00.849 --> 00:36:04.030 have anybody to talk to, you know, that could 00:36:04.030 --> 00:36:06.489 very well be on the brink of committing suicide, 00:36:06.489 --> 00:36:08.630 but because they have JTPT, they could speak 00:36:08.630 --> 00:36:11.150 to, who knows, maybe that saved at least one 00:36:11.150 --> 00:36:13.989 life out there, right? That's a really good point. 00:36:14.110 --> 00:36:21.050 There are people who are lonely and I guess nobody 00:36:21.050 --> 00:36:26.449 is ready to be like a friend or let's say responsible. 00:36:26.699 --> 00:36:30.539 for the well -being of that person. So we can 00:36:30.539 --> 00:36:35.320 delegate that to ChatGPD. And I prefer that than, 00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:38.400 you know, getting them a dog or like a sentient 00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:42.860 being who can suffer from, you know, that relationship. 00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:46.679 I know how sometimes, you know, we present animals 00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:52.940 as being therapy tools. So that's an alternative 00:36:52.940 --> 00:36:56.719 to that. Or you can get a robot dog. Our robot 00:36:56.719 --> 00:37:00.380 dog. Thank you. I want that for my birthday. 00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:04.760 Yeah, I mean, all these technologies to me, they're 00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:08.360 all like tools that can have very good use for 00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:11.420 to help us. Right. So I don't I just I'm just 00:37:11.420 --> 00:37:14.380 very reluctant to demonize all these tools, you 00:37:14.380 --> 00:37:17.519 know, even when you hear the bad side of what 00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:20.599 has happened to certain people. just like the 00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:22.639 internet. There's so many bad things that are 00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:24.599 happening on the internet, but I would not dream 00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:28.260 of banning the internet, right? It's just, it's, 00:37:28.300 --> 00:37:32.239 yeah. You know, in dystopian movies, how there's 00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:37.940 always a band of rebel humans, like who are living, 00:37:38.199 --> 00:37:41.480 like the Amish people. I feel like there'll be 00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:47.539 lots of raw vegan, you know, communists being 00:37:47.539 --> 00:37:51.869 part of that. rebel bands. Yeah, my feeling. 00:37:54.269 --> 00:37:57.389 Okay, I'm trying to find a topic to segue into 00:37:57.389 --> 00:38:02.349 going back to the vegan Christmas market. I hope 00:38:02.349 --> 00:38:07.570 someday that I could have a vendor that have 00:38:07.570 --> 00:38:15.789 maybe some sort of vegan products that's been 00:38:15.789 --> 00:38:20.170 created using AI. You know, that would be really 00:38:20.170 --> 00:38:25.650 nice to see. Absolutely. Yes. Actually, I heard 00:38:25.650 --> 00:38:30.409 this. There's a brand out there of vegan dairy. 00:38:30.690 --> 00:38:32.289 It's an alternative to milk that's called, I 00:38:32.289 --> 00:38:36.329 think, not milk. And if I'm not mistaken, I think 00:38:36.329 --> 00:38:39.769 they created the recipe for their milk using 00:38:39.769 --> 00:38:44.170 AI. It doesn't surprise me because it doesn't 00:38:44.170 --> 00:38:49.730 taste that good. I think it has pineapple in 00:38:49.730 --> 00:38:55.630 it or something. Yeah, but not milk. Actually 00:38:55.630 --> 00:38:59.670 avoid that brand. Well, I think they have a series. 00:38:59.829 --> 00:39:02.030 I think it's the same company, not milk and not 00:39:02.030 --> 00:39:04.369 burger and not something else. I think it's the 00:39:04.369 --> 00:39:07.170 same company. But not burgers, actually not bad. 00:39:08.070 --> 00:39:10.929 I will test them at least once. I'll give them 00:39:10.929 --> 00:39:15.969 a chance. I promise. Talking about awesome gifts 00:39:15.969 --> 00:39:22.489 we want to get. What's the best gift you could 00:39:22.489 --> 00:39:29.579 offer to a vegan? You mean that a gift that's 00:39:29.579 --> 00:39:32.500 not food, because I think any food would be a 00:39:32.500 --> 00:39:34.820 good gift for a non -vegan. For vegan or non 00:39:34.820 --> 00:39:37.320 -vegan, you were saying? A vegan. A vegan? Yes. 00:39:37.500 --> 00:39:41.380 Any vegan food is a great gift. But a non -vegan, 00:39:41.380 --> 00:39:45.659 I mean, a non -food gift, we actually have a 00:39:45.659 --> 00:39:51.480 lot of, quite a few beauty and body products 00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:57.599 brands that are at the market this year. I always 00:39:57.599 --> 00:40:01.099 try to encourage those brands because, you know, 00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:05.760 when you buy stuff like the stuff in the pharmacies 00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:08.519 and you don't know how, like you see the list 00:40:08.519 --> 00:40:10.179 of ingredients, but you don't know which ingredients 00:40:10.179 --> 00:40:12.900 in there are actually animal based, especially 00:40:12.900 --> 00:40:15.159 when they come with the names or like, you know, 00:40:15.340 --> 00:40:18.059 Latin names or whatever. But when you buy the 00:40:18.059 --> 00:40:19.940 vegan brands and you can be sure that it's a 00:40:19.940 --> 00:40:23.300 hundred percent. vegan ingredients, not animal 00:40:23.300 --> 00:40:27.420 tested. Yes. Um, yeah, so I, that could be a 00:40:27.420 --> 00:40:31.820 good gift. Yeah, I agree. It's, I always use 00:40:31.820 --> 00:40:35.300 Yuka now. It's my guru. It decides, you know, 00:40:35.300 --> 00:40:39.139 if something, um, is welcome in my house and 00:40:39.139 --> 00:40:44.280 stomach and skin. Uh, I highly recommend that 00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:57.210 app. I think it saved me years of, uh, My answer 00:40:57.210 --> 00:41:03.230 to that is a gift to a vegan charity. If someone 00:41:03.230 --> 00:41:07.329 wants to make a gift to me during the holidays, 00:41:08.110 --> 00:41:11.170 please make a donation in my name to a great 00:41:11.170 --> 00:41:16.010 vegan charity. That would make me very happy. 00:41:18.250 --> 00:41:22.489 Yeah, I was going to name a few charities I don't 00:41:22.489 --> 00:41:29.190 like. This is Rayan's gift list, so listen up. 00:41:31.349 --> 00:41:37.909 I mean, very altruistic of me, but yes, I will 00:41:37.909 --> 00:41:42.230 actually release the... Tomorrow, Wednesday, 00:41:43.929 --> 00:41:48.780 the Science of Activism episode will be... has 00:41:48.780 --> 00:41:52.360 been recorded by the animal charity evaluator 00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:57.539 team, and they go into their top 10 recommended 00:41:57.539 --> 00:42:01.260 charities. And so, yeah, please consider making 00:42:01.260 --> 00:42:06.639 a donation to one of those charities. Yeah, I 00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:10.780 mean, like, yeah, I mean, aside products, if 00:42:10.780 --> 00:42:14.369 you cannot like go out and do your own activism 00:42:14.369 --> 00:42:16.210 as in, you know, you cannot stand on a street 00:42:16.210 --> 00:42:18.550 corner and talk to people about veganism because 00:42:18.550 --> 00:42:20.809 that's not your thing. I think the next thing 00:42:20.809 --> 00:42:24.150 is to donate to vegan charities. That makes the 00:42:24.150 --> 00:42:26.969 most sense. Yeah. And, you know, it's that idea 00:42:26.969 --> 00:42:30.369 of effective altruism, right? Where you try to 00:42:30.369 --> 00:42:32.630 create the most change, you know, by delegating 00:42:32.630 --> 00:42:35.730 your money to an organization that's that's dedicated 00:42:35.730 --> 00:42:38.510 in doing that work so that you put your money 00:42:38.510 --> 00:42:41.030 to work because you can't do it all by yourself. 00:42:41.710 --> 00:42:44.849 So yeah, that's a great idea for Christmas gifts. 00:42:45.550 --> 00:42:48.429 Yes. Does it appeal to you that idea of effective 00:42:48.429 --> 00:42:52.530 altruism? It appeals to me, yes. Despite what 00:42:52.530 --> 00:42:55.130 has happened with that movement, I think there 00:42:55.130 --> 00:42:57.710 was some criticism because of the founders, some 00:42:57.710 --> 00:43:00.389 sort of scandal that was related to them. But 00:43:00.389 --> 00:43:02.250 putting all that stuff aside, putting all the 00:43:02.250 --> 00:43:04.570 drama aside, I mean, that idea is not bad, right? 00:43:04.730 --> 00:43:07.230 If you can't, I mean, it's not if you can't, 00:43:07.309 --> 00:43:12.329 nobody can take on a cause on their own. So donating 00:43:12.329 --> 00:43:15.510 your money to an organization that can take care 00:43:15.510 --> 00:43:17.550 of it at large scale, that makes the most sense 00:43:17.550 --> 00:43:23.340 to me, I guess. Yes, really good point. Be careful 00:43:23.340 --> 00:43:26.420 because during this holiday season, you'll receive 00:43:26.420 --> 00:43:31.380 calls from charities and often the people doing 00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:34.940 the calling are not employees of that charity. 00:43:35.719 --> 00:43:41.019 They're actually outside agencies and every gift 00:43:41.019 --> 00:43:44.219 you make through them, they get a percentage 00:43:44.219 --> 00:43:48.750 out of that going into their profit margin. their 00:43:48.750 --> 00:43:51.170 corporations, you know, they're not charities 00:43:51.170 --> 00:43:55.190 themselves, those agencies. And lots of people 00:43:55.190 --> 00:43:58.130 don't know that. But yeah, be careful, because 00:43:58.130 --> 00:44:02.769 I think it speaks to the the ethical principles 00:44:02.769 --> 00:44:08.079 of the charity that recruits that agency. You 00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:11.380 should at least be transparent with your donors 00:44:11.380 --> 00:44:14.980 and tell them, hey, basically, if you're making 00:44:14.980 --> 00:44:17.719 a donation through me because of me, because 00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:22.280 of this call, we'll take a percentage. But of 00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:26.219 course, they won't tell that to people. Well, 00:44:26.280 --> 00:44:29.960 it's probably safer, I guess, to just research 00:44:29.960 --> 00:44:32.639 your own organization that you want to support. 00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:37.320 whether it's a animal sanctuary or some other 00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:39.639 type of organization, just research it yourself 00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:43.659 and donate directly. That skips the middleman, 00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:45.739 I guess, instead of waiting for that phone call 00:44:45.739 --> 00:44:50.300 that asks you to donate. True. I mean, I love 00:44:50.300 --> 00:44:56.340 calling donors, but cold calls to donors, it's 00:44:56.340 --> 00:45:00.340 hard. There's lots of scam right now. We were 00:45:00.340 --> 00:45:05.119 talking about AI. It's so easy to use AI to imitate 00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:08.619 the voice of someone. So don't fall for this. 00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:11.260 Yeah. Even if you, it sounds like your mom calling, 00:45:11.420 --> 00:45:13.420 asking for a donation. It's probably not your 00:45:13.420 --> 00:45:15.619 mom asking for a donation. No, it's not your 00:45:15.619 --> 00:45:19.440 mom. I can confirm that. Like my family decided 00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:22.719 to adopt a password, like a family password, 00:45:23.159 --> 00:45:27.460 just in case. So yeah, I recommend that to, you 00:45:27.460 --> 00:45:31.920 know, decide on a password. Yeah. Yeah. That's 00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:37.570 a good idea. Okay, going back to the vegan Christmas 00:45:37.570 --> 00:45:41.849 market of this year. Where is it? Yeah, what 00:45:41.849 --> 00:45:45.179 is the the whole logistics? So I I'll mention 00:45:45.179 --> 00:45:49.400 it during the introduction. Last year we had 00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:52.900 a hall near Place des Arts. This year we switched 00:45:52.900 --> 00:45:55.880 to a different hall but also very close to Place 00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:58.159 des Arts Metro. It's literally like two steps 00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:02.559 away. It's a different venue. It's a nice venue. 00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:06.219 Last year we had to go upstairs. This year it's 00:46:06.219 --> 00:46:09.599 like street level. It's a very nice venue and 00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:13.539 we'll have two rooms that are connected. Um, 00:46:13.539 --> 00:46:16.280 so that's where it's going to be. It's at 175 00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:19.860 avenue to president Kennedy. Uh, so it's right 00:46:19.860 --> 00:46:23.340 downtown. There's no excuse to not go because 00:46:23.340 --> 00:46:25.360 it's so close to downtown. I mean, it's, it's 00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:27.900 central. So that's what's great about this venue. 00:46:28.659 --> 00:46:31.860 And, uh, yeah, it's funny. You pronounce a president 00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:37.780 Kennedy in French instead of English. But yeah, 00:46:37.860 --> 00:46:42.119 I mean, if you're living in the U S think about. 00:46:42.300 --> 00:46:46.820 coming in Montreal during this time of the year. 00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:51.699 Come and visit the vegan Christmas market, see 00:46:51.699 --> 00:46:56.159 what's out there on the vegan scene and explore 00:46:56.159 --> 00:46:58.320 Montreal during this time of the year. It's so 00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:01.800 romantic here during the holiday season. And 00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:04.719 we have snow. It's amazing. Yes, we have snow 00:47:04.719 --> 00:47:07.860 this year. Yeah. You can take beautiful pictures. 00:47:08.360 --> 00:47:11.130 Yeah. And this is like... Christmas market seasons, 00:47:11.250 --> 00:47:13.230 right? There's so many Christmas markets around 00:47:13.230 --> 00:47:16.050 and the vegan Christmas market is one of them. 00:47:16.570 --> 00:47:18.570 But basically, if you visit Montreal, this is 00:47:18.570 --> 00:47:21.389 like you can visit so many markets that are happening 00:47:21.389 --> 00:47:25.590 on that weekend. Yeah, and it's also close by 00:47:25.590 --> 00:47:27.949 a skating rink there. So there's so many things 00:47:27.949 --> 00:47:32.000 to do in downtown area. that come and visit. 00:47:32.300 --> 00:47:35.079 And you were saying about the Americans, and 00:47:35.079 --> 00:47:37.800 yesterday I was out downtown distributing the 00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:39.679 flyers for the Lincoln Christmas Market. I do 00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:42.280 this every year. I distribute flyers, even though 00:47:42.280 --> 00:47:44.559 I don't know how many people are looking at flyers 00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:50.440 these days. Very old -fashioned of you. You have 00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:53.079 that version of you interested in robots and 00:47:53.079 --> 00:47:57.039 AI. The other version, distributing flyers in 00:47:57.039 --> 00:48:02.070 the streets. Yeah, and I do not use the phone 00:48:02.070 --> 00:48:07.170 book, by the way. But anyways. Yes, I actually... 00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:10.059 distributed the flyers at a hotel that was near 00:48:10.059 --> 00:48:12.559 near the venue because i'm thinking like people 00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:15.239 who travel and who stay at the hotel they come 00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:17.440 down to the lobby they always have a concierge 00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:19.719 right where they have like flyers of different 00:48:19.719 --> 00:48:23.360 events in and around the hotel so i put the christmas 00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:26.559 market uh flyers there hopefully they'll bring 00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:31.179 in some tourists good call good call yeah it 00:48:31.179 --> 00:48:36.000 is a popular destination um during the holiday 00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:41.420 season. There's also lots of, you know, family 00:48:41.420 --> 00:48:44.460 gatherings in Montreal, you know, people from 00:48:44.460 --> 00:48:46.840 all over the world coming back to their parents' 00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:50.599 house here. So yeah, it's a beautiful season. 00:48:51.019 --> 00:48:53.420 Yeah. And the event is actually quite family 00:48:53.420 --> 00:48:55.739 friendly. So, you know, even if you're not a 00:48:55.739 --> 00:48:58.139 tourist and you have kids, you know, bring the 00:48:58.139 --> 00:49:02.480 family to the Christmas market. It's indoor, 00:49:02.619 --> 00:49:04.940 so it's comfortable. You're not freezing outside. 00:49:06.260 --> 00:49:08.679 There's interesting products. There's hot chocolate. 00:49:09.159 --> 00:49:11.739 There's all kinds of nice things for kids. There's 00:49:11.739 --> 00:49:13.639 no alcohol whatsoever, so you don't have to worry 00:49:13.639 --> 00:49:15.599 about that stuff. You just have to accompany 00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:18.699 your kids because when the vendors distribute 00:49:18.699 --> 00:49:22.260 the samples, we try to ask that the parents accompany 00:49:22.260 --> 00:49:25.989 their kids just for safety. But yeah, it's a 00:49:25.989 --> 00:49:31.670 very family -friendly event. Nice. Yeah. No after 00:49:31.670 --> 00:49:38.090 party. No after party. The other vegan Christmas 00:49:38.090 --> 00:49:40.929 market. Yeah. You're giving me ideas now. Next 00:49:40.929 --> 00:49:47.489 year. Well, I do think it's a perfect initiative 00:49:47.489 --> 00:49:54.940 for dating. stuff, what is it called? Blind dates. 00:49:55.920 --> 00:50:00.320 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, between vegans, I feel like, 00:50:00.380 --> 00:50:05.280 you know, I know lots of lots of vegans in general, 00:50:05.320 --> 00:50:07.940 I was going to say male vegans, but also, you 00:50:07.940 --> 00:50:13.139 know, female vegans who are looking for a significant 00:50:13.139 --> 00:50:18.929 other who shares their vegan values and They're 00:50:18.929 --> 00:50:21.510 struggling. They're truly struggling and I don't 00:50:21.510 --> 00:50:26.309 know what to say. Like I'm not better. It's unfortunate. 00:50:26.449 --> 00:50:32.070 They're not a lot of like dating Activities are 00:50:32.070 --> 00:50:35.429 aimed at vegans. You kind of have to like go 00:50:35.429 --> 00:50:38.500 to those mixed events where you don't know who's 00:50:38.500 --> 00:50:40.440 vegan and who's not. So it's hard for people 00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:43.940 if anyone is looking for a partner that's exclusively 00:50:43.940 --> 00:50:47.460 vegan. So I get the challenge. You're giving 00:50:47.460 --> 00:50:49.239 me an idea. Maybe we could have some sort of 00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:51.980 activity next year in a Christmas market. Like, 00:50:51.980 --> 00:50:55.519 you know, that vegans can hang out like a mixer 00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:58.179 type of activity. I don't know. Just thinking 00:50:58.179 --> 00:51:02.440 out loud. At the very least, you know, go and 00:51:02.440 --> 00:51:06.780 meet fellow vegans. I say it every year. Or a 00:51:06.780 --> 00:51:12.400 secret Santa thing. Thank you. Yes, I will participate. 00:51:14.019 --> 00:51:18.179 Just for making friends. Don't have to think 00:51:18.179 --> 00:51:24.559 about romance and whatever. Just breaking that 00:51:24.559 --> 00:51:27.519 solitude that lots of vegans can feel during 00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:31.000 the holidays. It's a great initiative for that. 00:51:33.659 --> 00:51:36.239 But for this year, since we don't have a mixer 00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:39.599 organized, I mean, if anybody out there is looking 00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:42.039 for an activity to do, you know, to invite a 00:51:42.039 --> 00:51:45.539 vegan friend and walk the market, that's a non 00:51:45.539 --> 00:51:51.980 -committal activity. That was the theme of last 00:51:51.980 --> 00:51:54.179 year's episode. You know, I think I titled the 00:51:54.179 --> 00:51:57.579 episode Bring a Carnist to the Vegan Christmas 00:51:57.579 --> 00:52:01.980 Market. You know, like sometimes people feel 00:52:01.980 --> 00:52:04.969 like if they Ask somebody out for dinner that 00:52:04.969 --> 00:52:09.530 it's maybe too serious. Yes Come by the Christmas 00:52:09.530 --> 00:52:13.309 market. It's it's you know, it's friendly. There's 00:52:13.309 --> 00:52:17.329 a lot of people around so it's safe And you have 00:52:17.329 --> 00:52:23.349 fun I'm selling the market in every possible 00:52:23.349 --> 00:52:27.849 angle here We should title this episode vegan 00:52:27.849 --> 00:52:33.619 Christmas market non -commental fun this year 00:52:33.619 --> 00:52:36.760 we help you find the love of your life this year 00:52:36.760 --> 00:52:41.280 is the year just go there go find the magic the 00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:45.380 vegan christmas magic uh it will happen count 00:52:45.380 --> 00:52:48.400 on it yes you know what i saw on one of the vegan 00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:52.579 facebook groups which i am a part of obviously 00:52:52.579 --> 00:52:55.099 someone was talking about dating at one point 00:52:55.099 --> 00:52:57.199 they were saying how hard it is to find someone 00:52:57.199 --> 00:53:01.369 who is vegan because You don't know who on the 00:53:01.369 --> 00:53:03.090 street is vegan, so it's hard to just figure 00:53:03.090 --> 00:53:05.449 out who is vegan. And somebody else was saying, 00:53:05.510 --> 00:53:07.530 well, you just go into a grocery store and you 00:53:07.530 --> 00:53:09.769 stand in front of the tofu section. That's how 00:53:09.769 --> 00:53:13.349 you get a vegan. I just think that was so funny. 00:53:13.489 --> 00:53:14.789 And I'm thinking, you don't have to do that. 00:53:14.889 --> 00:53:16.750 Just come to the Christmas market. Most people 00:53:16.750 --> 00:53:20.110 there are vegan. Who said that? It's a non -vegan. 00:53:20.269 --> 00:53:23.170 It's like Big Ag or something. It's actually 00:53:23.170 --> 00:53:26.829 a vegan, I think. As a joke, I think. But yeah, 00:53:26.989 --> 00:53:28.170 you don't have to do that awkward thing. You 00:53:28.170 --> 00:53:30.110 don't have to go stand in front of a tofu section 00:53:30.110 --> 00:53:32.070 at a grocery store. Just come to the vegan Christmas 00:53:32.070 --> 00:53:35.250 market. You'll meet plenty of people there. Who 00:53:35.250 --> 00:53:46.210 wants to date the tofu creep who's there? That's 00:53:46.210 --> 00:53:50.650 so weird. I mean, there are vegan dating signs, 00:53:50.730 --> 00:53:53.309 but I've been told that they're full of bots. 00:53:56.260 --> 00:53:59.980 Pita actually organized a blind date, virtual 00:53:59.980 --> 00:54:02.280 blind date. I think I saw the ads, but they put 00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:05.460 a lot of ads for that event, I think. Yeah. Well, 00:54:05.460 --> 00:54:08.119 I have a friend who attended and participated 00:54:08.119 --> 00:54:10.860 and he said it was a disaster, you know, from 00:54:10.860 --> 00:54:14.380 his perspective, did not find anyone interesting. 00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:17.719 And yeah, it was awkward because it was all virtual. 00:54:18.239 --> 00:54:22.400 So, yeah, yeah. So the market is there. The demand 00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:28.099 for that is there. And just need to find a good 00:54:28.099 --> 00:54:30.500 service of products. Yeah, it's true. It's actually 00:54:30.500 --> 00:54:32.900 a need in the market. So if anybody out there 00:54:32.900 --> 00:54:36.019 is looking for a project, I mean, this is a good 00:54:36.019 --> 00:54:38.500 because there's actual need. You just need the 00:54:38.500 --> 00:54:40.400 product or the service that meets that need. 00:54:41.199 --> 00:54:44.539 The idea is there. I mean, I think there's one 00:54:44.539 --> 00:54:48.769 vegan app, right? Dating app? I keep seeing their 00:54:48.769 --> 00:54:52.050 ads all over Instagram. That's like one, right? 00:54:52.130 --> 00:54:54.349 And how many dating apps do you have for non 00:54:54.349 --> 00:54:56.429 -vegans? So many. They're not even targeting 00:54:56.429 --> 00:54:59.010 me. Can you imagine? They're not targeting you. 00:54:59.190 --> 00:55:03.710 Well, they're targeting. I thought that was not 00:55:03.710 --> 00:55:09.690 an interesting profile. Yeah, I don't know. There's 00:55:09.690 --> 00:55:12.289 so many things that can be done, I think. Yes. 00:55:13.349 --> 00:55:18.349 Yeah. I mean, keep an eye open. and door open 00:55:18.349 --> 00:55:21.449 to that possibility. It's always fun. Yeah. But 00:55:21.449 --> 00:55:25.269 what's your perspective on this? Do you think 00:55:25.269 --> 00:55:29.210 that a vegan should only date another person 00:55:29.210 --> 00:55:33.130 who is vegan or no? No, I don't think that. I 00:55:33.130 --> 00:55:38.469 don't believe that. I actually know a vegan fundraiser. 00:55:39.269 --> 00:55:43.030 She's like an activist, a true activist like 00:55:43.030 --> 00:55:48.599 us. deep into the vegan rabbit hole. But her 00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:53.519 husband is not vegan and it's okay. They're making 00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:56.639 it work and I think it's not the end of the world. 00:55:56.800 --> 00:56:01.139 I think actually it's better to either conquer 00:56:01.139 --> 00:56:07.039 through dating the hearts and minds and appetites 00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:10.989 of non -vegans. um i think that's the ultimate 00:56:10.989 --> 00:56:15.809 form of activism thank you yes it is it actually 00:56:15.809 --> 00:56:19.010 is go find the carnist out there and date them 00:56:19.010 --> 00:56:22.409 marry them yeah give your life and your heart 00:56:22.409 --> 00:56:28.530 away to the cause go for it it's true sacrifice 00:56:28.530 --> 00:56:36.500 yes Okay, so the music started. Yes. They reopened. 00:56:36.880 --> 00:56:39.260 Yes, they reopened. And once again, we're at 00:56:39.260 --> 00:56:42.780 Chai Yo, the vegan Thai restaurant, which explains 00:56:42.780 --> 00:56:51.320 all the background noise. But yeah, so I think 00:56:51.320 --> 00:56:56.199 it's a good time to stop this recording. Did 00:56:56.199 --> 00:56:59.400 you want to add something before we stop the 00:56:59.400 --> 00:57:03.539 conversation? No, I think we've covered a lot 00:57:03.539 --> 00:57:06.079 of things. Yes. It was an amazing conversation. 00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:09.199 Always fun to talk with you, Anne. Thank you 00:57:09.199 --> 00:57:13.019 for doing this every year. And people, I hope 00:57:13.019 --> 00:57:15.780 you smiled during this conversation. You laughed 00:57:15.780 --> 00:57:21.940 and got your dose of positivity for the day. 00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:25.960 Thank you, everyone, for listening. Thank you, 00:57:25.980 --> 00:57:28.980 Ryan. Thank you for creating this amazing platform. 00:57:29.670 --> 00:57:32.630 that's that's your form of activism and and it's 00:57:32.630 --> 00:57:34.789 it's wonderful really and thank you for your 00:57:34.789 --> 00:57:37.190 support for the vegan christmas market year after 00:57:37.190 --> 00:57:39.769 year it means a lot to me thank you of course 00:57:39.769 --> 00:57:42.110 and i'm looking forward to visiting the christmas 00:57:42.110 --> 00:57:44.889 market again this year it's also my personal 00:57:44.889 --> 00:57:48.909 tradition uh if you see me ignore me no i'm kidding 00:57:53.150 --> 00:57:56.469 Come and let's take a picture or something. Yes. 00:57:56.710 --> 00:58:00.389 See you there. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank 00:58:00.389 --> 00:58:03.429 you everyone for listening. I kindly invite you 00:58:03.429 --> 00:58:06.010 to share this podcast with the vegans, you know, 00:58:06.409 --> 00:58:10.389 let's encourage more people to take action again. 00:58:10.590 --> 00:58:13.309 Thank you so much for caring and I will see you 00:58:13.309 --> 00:58:15.469 next Tuesday for a new episode.