WEBVTT 00:00:00.979 --> 00:00:04.299 This is Dr. Wren for The Vegan Report. Today's 00:00:04.299 --> 00:00:06.799 episode we'll be discussing the controversial 00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:09.980 perhaps topic of feminism and is it necessary 00:00:09.980 --> 00:00:12.820 for effective vegan outreach. I will be arguing 00:00:12.820 --> 00:00:15.359 that yes, it is not only essential but it has 00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:17.539 been fundamental to effective animal advocacy 00:00:17.539 --> 00:00:20.300 and vegan outreach from the very beginning of 00:00:20.300 --> 00:00:23.179 professional activism in the 19th century. If 00:00:23.179 --> 00:00:24.839 you'd like to learn more about me and the work 00:00:24.839 --> 00:00:26.719 that I do, before we get started, I'll direct 00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:34.679 you to coreyleen .com. And there you can find 00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:37.500 all of my research available to view and download 00:00:37.500 --> 00:00:41.200 free of charge. You can also find my YouTube 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:44.960 channel at coreyleen. And I'm also on Instagram 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:48.280 at coreyleen. And I have a newsletter and you 00:00:48.280 --> 00:00:50.219 can sign up for that if you go to my website. 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:53.520 I am a senior lecturer of sociology at the University 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:55.579 of Kent in Canterbury, England, and I'm the co 00:00:55.579 --> 00:00:57.619 -director of the Center for the Study of Social 00:00:57.619 --> 00:01:00.679 and Political Movements. And I received my PhD 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:03.600 in sociology with Colorado State University in 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:07.659 2016. I'm past chair of the Animals and Society 00:01:07.659 --> 00:01:10.420 section of the American Sociological Association. 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:15.980 And I was in the past a chair for that same section. 00:01:16.060 --> 00:01:19.540 I'm also the co -founder of the International 00:01:19.540 --> 00:01:23.200 Association. of vegan sociologists. I've published 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:26.879 four books, five books, jeez, one's coming up. 00:01:27.180 --> 00:01:29.599 I've published four books so far on effective 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:32.819 animal outreach and that is A Rational Approach 00:01:32.819 --> 00:01:36.000 to Animal Rights published by Palgrave in 2016, 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:38.159 Peace Now protests, Animal Rights in the Age 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:41.019 of Nonprofits that was published with the University 00:01:41.019 --> 00:01:44.420 of Michigan Press 2019, Animals in Irish Society 00:01:44.420 --> 00:01:48.069 published with SUNY Press 2021, Vegan Witchcraft, 00:01:48.230 --> 00:01:50.450 Contemporary Magical Practice, and Multi -Species 00:01:50.450 --> 00:01:52.909 Social Change, which is published by Rootledge 00:01:52.909 --> 00:01:56.689 this year, and forthcoming that should be released, 00:01:56.750 --> 00:02:01.030 gosh, if not in 2026 and definitely in 2027. 00:02:01.290 --> 00:02:03.230 I'm about to hand in the final draft for that, 00:02:03.930 --> 00:02:06.010 which is what, while we're talking about feminism 00:02:06.010 --> 00:02:08.930 today, the topic is vegan feminism. The book 00:02:08.930 --> 00:02:11.629 is called Vegan Feminism, History, Theory, Activism, 00:02:11.650 --> 00:02:14.550 and that will be coming with Bloomsbury Epidemic. 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:17.939 So that's me in a nutshell. I'm really well published 00:02:17.939 --> 00:02:20.979 in these topics and I've been doing vegan feminism 00:02:20.979 --> 00:02:24.539 for 10 plus years and as part of my research 00:02:24.539 --> 00:02:26.680 for this forthcoming book I've really delved 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:29.400 into what I would consider three major waves 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:33.659 of vegan feminism since the 19th century. Now 00:02:33.659 --> 00:02:36.819 many people when they think of vegan advocacy, 00:02:37.060 --> 00:02:39.020 they think of it as something that is gender 00:02:39.020 --> 00:02:41.979 neutral, even race neutral or class neutral, 00:02:42.780 --> 00:02:45.830 ethnicity neutral. But actually, that's just 00:02:45.830 --> 00:02:47.750 not the way our society works. I can tell you 00:02:47.750 --> 00:02:50.610 as a sociologist that we're always viewing our 00:02:50.610 --> 00:02:54.389 social world through the lens of gender, race, 00:02:54.909 --> 00:02:58.729 and oftentimes class as well. So it really isn't 00:02:58.729 --> 00:03:00.949 doing us any favors if we try to pretend that 00:03:00.949 --> 00:03:03.110 gender doesn't matter. So I'm going to be talking 00:03:03.110 --> 00:03:08.370 today about my expertise as a sociologist and 00:03:08.370 --> 00:03:10.689 also someone who focuses on social movement theory. 00:03:11.099 --> 00:03:13.860 But I should also direct you to the wild and 00:03:13.860 --> 00:03:17.900 wonderful world of vegan social psychology. And 00:03:17.900 --> 00:03:19.699 they've been doing quite a lot of research that 00:03:19.699 --> 00:03:23.599 actually supports there is evidence that in people's 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:27.060 minds, they do connect their attitudes about 00:03:27.060 --> 00:03:29.699 gender, race, and so on with their attitudes 00:03:29.699 --> 00:03:32.560 toward animals. So in the past 10 plus years, 00:03:32.599 --> 00:03:35.639 we now have evidence to support what vegan feminist 00:03:35.639 --> 00:03:38.280 theory has been arguing all along, that yes, 00:03:38.300 --> 00:03:41.349 gender does matter. So let me start by explaining 00:03:41.349 --> 00:03:44.310 what vegan feminism is and where it comes from, 00:03:44.349 --> 00:03:46.949 what its history is. So vegan feminism is basically 00:03:46.949 --> 00:03:50.409 making the argument that we can't fully understand 00:03:50.409 --> 00:03:52.789 veganism or advocate for other animals or promote 00:03:52.789 --> 00:03:56.289 veganism without having a critique of gender. 00:03:57.370 --> 00:03:59.710 So the idea with feminism, if we can even break 00:03:59.710 --> 00:04:01.889 it down further, feminism is not about hating 00:04:01.889 --> 00:04:06.729 men, bashing men, isolating from men. Feminism 00:04:06.729 --> 00:04:09.090 is all about the idea that gender should not 00:04:09.090 --> 00:04:13.310 matter when we are distributing resources, and 00:04:13.310 --> 00:04:15.530 gender should not matter as far as someone's 00:04:15.530 --> 00:04:18.129 quality of life and their life chances. However, 00:04:18.290 --> 00:04:20.569 we do live in a very gender unequal society. 00:04:20.970 --> 00:04:22.990 We do live in an andro -centric society, which 00:04:22.990 --> 00:04:26.709 means male -centered. And just as a quick example 00:04:26.709 --> 00:04:29.850 of that, if you look at most legislative seats 00:04:29.850 --> 00:04:33.209 in the world, globally, it's about 80 % of those 00:04:33.209 --> 00:04:35.959 go to men. In the United States, where I'm from, 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:37.819 we still have not had a female president, and 00:04:37.819 --> 00:04:40.339 we probably won't for a very long time. Most 00:04:40.339 --> 00:04:43.899 of the people who are in important judicial seats, 00:04:44.180 --> 00:04:46.839 they are also men. Law historically has been 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:48.860 designed around the male point of view and to 00:04:48.860 --> 00:04:51.300 protect male interests, et cetera, et cetera, 00:04:51.300 --> 00:04:54.360 et cetera. So we don't live in a post -feminist 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:56.199 society where gender doesn't matter anymore because 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:58.180 somehow feminism has solved all of our problems 00:04:58.180 --> 00:05:02.040 too. Contrary, we still have quite a lot of institutionalized 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:05.089 sexism. And gender still is a key determinant 00:05:05.089 --> 00:05:07.449 in someone's life chances and their quality of 00:05:07.449 --> 00:05:10.089 life and resources they'll have access to. We 00:05:10.089 --> 00:05:12.769 have a lot of disparity over career aspects, 00:05:12.970 --> 00:05:15.009 for instance, what kind of jobs are open to you, 00:05:15.149 --> 00:05:18.470 kind of opportunities are open to you. And also, 00:05:18.689 --> 00:05:21.290 we have major disparities in pay. So we still 00:05:21.290 --> 00:05:23.850 have a big gender pay gap, which gets even worse, 00:05:23.910 --> 00:05:26.589 by the way, when you bring in race, class, et 00:05:26.589 --> 00:05:30.180 cetera. So the idea then with feminism is that 00:05:30.180 --> 00:05:32.019 we should not live in a society where that is 00:05:32.019 --> 00:05:34.839 the case. It should be a society where everyone 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:37.199 is free to express their gender identity however 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:39.540 they want and in some cases some feminists would 00:05:39.540 --> 00:05:41.639 also say maybe get rid of gender altogether and 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:44.939 let people just be people. But it's not about 00:05:44.939 --> 00:05:47.740 putting men down or waging a war against men. 00:05:47.779 --> 00:05:49.939 That's not the case. So when we look at being 00:05:49.939 --> 00:05:53.180 in feminism, it's a similar situation. We should 00:05:53.180 --> 00:05:57.319 not have a case where masculinity and patriarchy 00:05:57.319 --> 00:05:59.540 is shaping our relationship with other animals 00:05:59.540 --> 00:06:02.639 or our diets, plant -based or not plant -based, 00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:05.199 but it's simply not the case. It is very much 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:08.779 so true that gender does shape our relationship 00:06:08.779 --> 00:06:12.180 with animals and our diets. So for instance, 00:06:12.339 --> 00:06:16.959 we know that men are more likely to be consuming 00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:19.639 animal products and far more animal products 00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:23.930 than women. So part of men's Gender expression 00:06:23.930 --> 00:06:26.350 is through domination. So that's really about 00:06:26.350 --> 00:06:28.470 masculine and masculine T. Traditionally has 00:06:28.470 --> 00:06:31.949 been understood that it's about domination and 00:06:31.949 --> 00:06:36.129 so it's a very conflict -based gender Patriarchy 00:06:36.129 --> 00:06:38.750 is a very conflict -based social arrangement. 00:06:39.290 --> 00:06:41.290 So one way that you can express your masculinity 00:06:41.290 --> 00:06:43.430 is by putting down others and sort of making 00:06:43.430 --> 00:06:45.560 yourself king of the mountain, however you want 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:47.860 to phrase that. And so putting down animals, 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:50.019 consuming animals, dominating animals is one 00:06:50.019 --> 00:06:52.519 way to do that. So that's why we see men are 00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:54.899 more likely to eat meat and lots of meat. That's 00:06:54.899 --> 00:06:57.360 also why we're more likely to see men engaged 00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:01.180 in slaughterhouse work or vivisection laboratories, 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:05.720 et cetera, et cetera. Whereas for women, because 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:11.279 femininity has been defined as expressing submissiveness, 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:14.060 Well, then you can understand then how women 00:07:14.060 --> 00:07:16.879 are more allowed to align with fellow animals 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:19.759 because animals being one of the weakest social 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:22.819 groups as far as access to power and resources 00:07:22.819 --> 00:07:26.319 and social status. It makes sense then for women 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:28.680 to align with other animals because they too 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:31.600 have very low social statuses in a patriarchal 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:35.019 society. It's also okay for women to be vegetarian 00:07:35.019 --> 00:07:38.120 or vegan. for the most part because again that 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:40.620 is aligning with social expectations of what 00:07:40.620 --> 00:07:43.040 femininity is and how it's supposed to be expressed. 00:07:43.540 --> 00:07:45.879 So it's no secret or it's no surprise rather 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:49.079 that we see more women being vegan or vegetarian 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:51.860 and more men who are not only eating a lot of 00:07:51.860 --> 00:07:54.540 animal products but resistant to veganism and 00:07:54.540 --> 00:07:56.720 vegetarianism because it undermines their very 00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:01.420 masculinity. So we have that. That's the basic 00:08:01.420 --> 00:08:04.259 element of vegan feminism. And also, if you look 00:08:04.259 --> 00:08:07.100 at the work of eco -feminists in the 1970s, 80s, 00:08:07.100 --> 00:08:09.939 and 90s, they will also say, well, let's take 00:08:09.939 --> 00:08:12.579 that a step further. And it's about our relationship 00:08:12.579 --> 00:08:14.800 with nature more broadly. So non -human animals 00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:17.519 oftentimes getting lumped into nature. Well, 00:08:17.540 --> 00:08:19.899 the idea that nature is feminized, something 00:08:19.899 --> 00:08:23.379 to conquer, something to exploit, resource to 00:08:23.379 --> 00:08:26.819 own, to be traded, bartered, to fight wars over. 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:30.759 Nature itself then is part of that feminized 00:08:30.759 --> 00:08:34.860 space. And so Marty Keele, for instance, a leading 00:08:34.860 --> 00:08:38.799 vegan eco -feminist, and also Greta Gar is another 00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:41.019 good example. They've made the argument that 00:08:41.019 --> 00:08:44.759 as we in the West have started to objectify nature 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:47.299 and feminize nature, then it's no surprise that 00:08:47.299 --> 00:08:52.320 the status of nature and the well -being of nature 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:54.279 and non -human animals who are associated with 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:57.139 that have plummeted. And then of course we can 00:08:57.139 --> 00:08:59.240 also take this to a global scale and see how 00:08:59.240 --> 00:09:02.779 this is also wrapped up with colonization and 00:09:02.779 --> 00:09:06.700 global inequality. So we really then from a vegan 00:09:06.700 --> 00:09:09.759 feminist perspective need to understand how theoretically 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:13.299 we're using a gender lens to understand our material 00:09:13.299 --> 00:09:16.960 and our social world. And if we don't pay attention 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:19.480 to that, we're not as activists really fully 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:22.919 understanding the true mechanism of, in this 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:27.220 case for this podcast, speciesism. So that's 00:09:27.220 --> 00:09:30.000 the gist, and this is something that is not necessarily 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:33.659 new. This is something that has been around for 00:09:33.659 --> 00:09:39.039 several decades, maybe even centuries. So I would 00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:41.179 place this really into three ways. It sort of 00:09:41.179 --> 00:09:42.940 follows the animal rights movement, the waves 00:09:42.940 --> 00:09:44.580 of the animal rights movement, but also the waves 00:09:44.580 --> 00:09:47.960 of the feminist movement. In the 1800s, some 00:09:47.960 --> 00:09:51.320 of the very first activists for animals were 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:53.440 women. We also had many men who were involved 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:56.080 in that, but unfortunately, because patriarchy 00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:59.039 has really shaped the animal rights movement, 00:09:59.139 --> 00:10:01.419 a lot of that history has been lost to us. So 00:10:01.419 --> 00:10:04.200 we saw in the 1970s and 80s, for instance, an 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:07.820 active discouraging of remembering women and 00:10:07.820 --> 00:10:10.980 their contributions and associating the public's 00:10:10.980 --> 00:10:14.159 mind with, or associating veganism and animal 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:17.220 rights in the public's mind with women. So there's 00:10:17.220 --> 00:10:19.080 a reason why a lot of us don't know this history. 00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:22.700 It was sort of actively, if not outspokenly, 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:25.419 but it was actively sort of pushed to the background. 00:10:25.559 --> 00:10:29.860 an effort for the hope was by these men was that 00:10:29.860 --> 00:10:31.419 animals would be taken animal rights movement 00:10:31.419 --> 00:10:33.580 would be taken more seriously if we kind of forget 00:10:33.580 --> 00:10:35.659 that women had anything to do with the movement. 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:38.600 So just had to put that in there. But anyway 00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:40.460 in the 19th century there were a lot of women 00:10:40.460 --> 00:10:44.159 who were involved with this. So the anti vivisection 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:47.779 campaign of the 1800s which really started in 00:10:47.779 --> 00:10:51.940 the 1860s and gained momentum in the 1880s 90s 00:10:51.940 --> 00:10:55.789 and 1900s. women were behind quite a lot of that. 00:10:56.090 --> 00:10:57.929 It wasn't just women, of course, men were also 00:10:57.929 --> 00:11:00.590 involved, but because so many women who were 00:11:00.590 --> 00:11:03.889 standing up against this new horror, this new 00:11:03.889 --> 00:11:06.970 institution of vivisection, very quickly became 00:11:06.970 --> 00:11:09.730 gendered in the public mind. So you have to remember 00:11:09.730 --> 00:11:12.269 at this time most women were not allowed to enter 00:11:12.269 --> 00:11:13.950 into medical facilities, they weren't allowed 00:11:13.950 --> 00:11:16.009 to become doctors, they weren't allowed to be 00:11:16.009 --> 00:11:18.070 professionally trained because for the past 200 00:11:18.070 --> 00:11:21.500 years women who had originally been the knowledge 00:11:21.500 --> 00:11:23.960 keepers, the community healers who understand 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:27.480 herbs and folk medicines, that has been actively 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:30.100 squashed out, midwives actively squashed out 00:11:30.100 --> 00:11:32.639 and then not long after in the 1800s outright 00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:35.019 banned. Then they were prevented from entering 00:11:35.019 --> 00:11:38.320 into medical official medical treatment as training 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:42.639 rather. So this was an active effort to demean 00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:45.799 women and to rob women of their important community 00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:49.490 power and knowledge. So it wasn't a surprise 00:11:49.490 --> 00:11:52.590 then, you start to see men in vivisection who 00:11:52.590 --> 00:11:55.570 were using this, by the way. Some of it was out 00:11:55.570 --> 00:11:58.389 of interest, curiosity. A lot of it actually 00:11:58.389 --> 00:12:01.350 had to do with they just wanted to further their 00:12:01.350 --> 00:12:03.990 careers. Because going into the medical establishment 00:12:03.990 --> 00:12:06.909 was usually only available to the wealthy, but 00:12:06.909 --> 00:12:09.830 for those who could get in, it was a way to navigate 00:12:09.830 --> 00:12:11.830 the very rigid class system of the Victorian 00:12:11.830 --> 00:12:15.470 era. And so men really gravitated toward this. 00:12:15.570 --> 00:12:17.470 Women were not really allowed to participate. 00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:20.679 And a lot of feminists actually got involved 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:22.740 in anti -bibisectionist work, and this is one 00:12:22.740 --> 00:12:25.419 of the reasons why it became sort of codified 00:12:25.419 --> 00:12:28.919 in the public mind that this was a women's movement. 00:12:29.820 --> 00:12:32.279 But actually, these feminists were not just, 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:35.259 you know... doing women's suffrage and then trying 00:12:35.259 --> 00:12:37.500 to advocate for animals. They were doing a lot 00:12:37.500 --> 00:12:40.120 of other causes. They were very, very intersectional 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:42.039 in their interests. They were fighting for Irish 00:12:42.039 --> 00:12:44.960 liberation, Indian liberation. They were fighting 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:46.940 for the welfare of the poor. They were fighting 00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:49.379 for better conditions and working class slums 00:12:49.379 --> 00:12:52.080 and England and America and elsewhere. They were 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:54.340 doing all kinds of... Abolitionists, quite a 00:12:54.340 --> 00:12:56.960 lot of them are also abolitionists. So it just 00:12:56.960 --> 00:12:59.279 kind of happened that there's a lot of reasons 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:00.980 which I don't have time to get into. You can 00:13:00.980 --> 00:13:03.700 find out more in my book. But the idea is that 00:13:03.700 --> 00:13:05.899 they sort of got latched onto the animal rights 00:13:05.899 --> 00:13:08.559 movement even though feminists were doing a lot 00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:12.139 of work across the board. So then we moved into 00:13:12.139 --> 00:13:14.000 the world wars and during that time was a bit 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:17.419 of an ambiance period where everyone was focusing 00:13:17.419 --> 00:13:19.559 on the war front. This doesn't mean that there 00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:22.059 was complete dearth of animal advocacy. There 00:13:22.059 --> 00:13:24.980 were women doing some work like advocating for 00:13:24.980 --> 00:13:27.629 war horses who were being wounded. And a lot 00:13:27.629 --> 00:13:29.789 of them were then being used for vivisection 00:13:29.789 --> 00:13:31.909 for war technology. So they were trying to advocate 00:13:31.909 --> 00:13:35.289 and help those animals. There was promotion of 00:13:35.289 --> 00:13:39.549 pacifism, being critical of a violent war society 00:13:39.549 --> 00:13:42.350 in of itself, et cetera, et cetera. But then 00:13:42.350 --> 00:13:44.269 by the time we move into the middle of the 20th 00:13:44.269 --> 00:13:47.009 century, the women are now regathering their 00:13:47.009 --> 00:13:50.830 strength. A lot of the organizations from the 00:13:50.830 --> 00:13:53.149 Victorian period are continuing on into this 00:13:53.149 --> 00:13:56.379 20th century. And new ones are being formed as 00:13:56.379 --> 00:13:58.340 needed because now we have a whole new landscape 00:13:58.340 --> 00:14:01.240 of speciesism. So they're doing a lot of amazing 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:03.379 work. But unfortunately, as I said, this is also 00:14:03.379 --> 00:14:06.220 the rise of the male philosophers. But this is 00:14:06.220 --> 00:14:08.779 very important. I want to emphasize this is one 00:14:08.779 --> 00:14:10.679 of the things that vegan feminism aims to do 00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:13.019 is not just to say, well, we need to take a gendered 00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:14.620 perspective of the reality of the situation. 00:14:14.860 --> 00:14:18.509 We also vegan feminism is arguing. We need to 00:14:18.509 --> 00:14:21.049 deconstruct this patriarchal colonization of 00:14:21.049 --> 00:14:23.350 animal advocacy, because in fact some of the 00:14:23.350 --> 00:14:25.409 earliest philosophical works that were being 00:14:25.409 --> 00:14:28.190 produced in the 1960s were not by Peter Singer, 00:14:28.870 --> 00:14:31.389 but by the likes of Bridget Brophy or Ruth Harrison, 00:14:32.750 --> 00:14:37.129 and also the Godloviches. So, Roz Godlovich, 00:14:37.370 --> 00:14:40.129 who wrote one of the very first animal rights 00:14:40.129 --> 00:14:43.309 philosophical pieces, and then went on to co 00:14:43.309 --> 00:14:44.909 -author a book with several other philosophers, 00:14:45.070 --> 00:14:47.039 including Peter Singer. And now Peter Singer 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:48.620 gets all the credit for it, but actually there 00:14:48.620 --> 00:14:51.340 were women doing this work at the same time as 00:14:51.340 --> 00:14:56.200 him and before him. So as we then move into the 00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:58.620 late 20th century, it's very, very clear that 00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:01.000 this is still a women's movement. And we have, 00:15:01.179 --> 00:15:04.559 by the turn of the new millennium, we have four 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:08.379 out of five activists who are women. So regardless, 00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:10.480 we have all these efforts for women to be stamped 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:12.440 out of the movement. Nonetheless, here we are, 00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:16.710 we remain. And we still have this sort of stubbornness 00:15:16.710 --> 00:15:18.950 about the role of women in the animal rights 00:15:18.950 --> 00:15:20.970 movement. It's as though this is somehow going 00:15:20.970 --> 00:15:23.730 to detract from animals. And vegan feminism would 00:15:23.730 --> 00:15:26.289 actually argue, at least I would argue, that 00:15:26.289 --> 00:15:29.529 by emphasizing that women are somehow selfish 00:15:29.529 --> 00:15:32.769 or egotistical by focusing on feminism, that's 00:15:32.769 --> 00:15:35.950 actually drawing on age -old stereotypes, sexist, 00:15:35.950 --> 00:15:38.769 misogynist in some cases, stereotypes, where 00:15:38.769 --> 00:15:40.549 women have historically been expected to put 00:15:40.549 --> 00:15:44.059 others first and to take take a step back and 00:15:44.059 --> 00:15:47.080 stay in the margins and that doesn't do anyone 00:15:47.080 --> 00:15:49.559 any favors because really it's invisibilizing 00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:51.360 one of the greatest strengths that the animal 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:55.059 rights movement has and that's women's work women's 00:15:55.059 --> 00:15:58.019 efforts women's creativity so vegan feminism 00:15:58.019 --> 00:16:00.879 then is arguing what would happen what would 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:04.549 we gain if we actually recognized women's contributions, 00:16:04.690 --> 00:16:07.490 validated them, celebrated them, and stopped 00:16:07.490 --> 00:16:09.610 filling up our animal rights hall of fame with 00:16:09.610 --> 00:16:13.389 men and stopped only reading books by men and 00:16:13.389 --> 00:16:15.549 only reading cookbooks by women, perhaps on the 00:16:15.549 --> 00:16:17.710 other side of that. What if we started to recognize 00:16:17.710 --> 00:16:19.509 and celebrate women's contributions? What could 00:16:19.509 --> 00:16:22.980 we achieve at that point? To that end, we also 00:16:22.980 --> 00:16:24.940 need to start thinking a bit more critically 00:16:24.940 --> 00:16:27.320 about the gender binary itself or about trans 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:30.419 and non -binary folks. I'm so sorry to report 00:16:30.419 --> 00:16:32.320 that at the time of this recording, there's still 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:34.500 quite a lot of division about the acceptance 00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:38.620 of the LGBTQ plus community. For instance, there 00:16:38.620 --> 00:16:41.840 was a belief they were a non -binary Taiwanese 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:44.039 American person. They published a blog, The Vegan 00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:48.279 Society, near the end of 2025. And the vitriol 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:50.840 that they received was so extreme the vegan society 00:16:50.840 --> 00:16:53.539 sadly had to shut down comments. And the nature 00:16:53.539 --> 00:16:56.779 of the comments who were in opposition was simply 00:16:56.779 --> 00:16:59.440 boils down to you're making it about yourself, 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:01.480 you're taking away attention from the animals. 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:05.359 But this is the deal, like animal rights and 00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:07.339 veganism has never been more popular. But one 00:17:07.339 --> 00:17:09.359 of the reasons that's becoming popular is because 00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:12.880 it's getting delodged from this archaic idea 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:15.319 of who can be a vegan and who can be an animal 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:17.809 activist. This idea that you have to be a middle 00:17:17.809 --> 00:17:21.650 -class white person in the West in order to be 00:17:21.650 --> 00:17:24.970 a legitimate, if you will, vegan activist, that 00:17:24.970 --> 00:17:28.769 needs to go. And now, recognizing not just the 00:17:28.769 --> 00:17:32.869 diversity in sexuality, but also in gender and 00:17:32.869 --> 00:17:34.769 nationality, all that's going to be very important. 00:17:34.809 --> 00:17:37.029 So that's where vegan feminism is asking us to 00:17:37.029 --> 00:17:40.730 push back, is to start challenging that which 00:17:40.730 --> 00:17:44.000 we take for granted. And this is me as a sociologist 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:47.500 speaking as well, someone who specializes in 00:17:47.500 --> 00:17:49.839 social movement theory. One of the main problems 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:51.799 with the animal rights movement is we have this 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:54.359 idea, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But what 00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:57.319 that really translates to is we have a fear of 00:17:57.319 --> 00:18:00.180 self -reflection. This idea of it's tradition, 00:18:00.339 --> 00:18:01.960 it's been that way, it's always been that way. 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:04.519 We always read Animal Liberation by Peter Singer 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:07.099 and we always promote men. We always put men 00:18:07.099 --> 00:18:09.700 at the front when we're speaking to media. And 00:18:09.700 --> 00:18:11.039 that's just the way it's always been. That's 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:14.559 just the reality of it. Well, that's just simply 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:18.680 bad science and bad advocacy. We need to be flexible. 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:21.960 We need to be reflexive. And if we can't start 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:24.819 to have that sort of movement around us, we are 00:18:24.819 --> 00:18:28.099 a movement dead in the water. So I'll leave it 00:18:28.099 --> 00:18:31.019 at that for today. That is me signing out. That 00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:33.559 is vegan feminism in a nutshell. It's illustrious 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:36.339 history and why it is relevant for effective 00:18:36.339 --> 00:18:41.579 decision making and tactical inspiration and 00:18:41.579 --> 00:18:44.920 hopefully if the book comes out you'll be inspired 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:48.400 to read a little bit further. So thank you for 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:50.480 listening and I appreciate your interest and 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:50.980 support.