Hello, this is Sueda and Gülbike, the co -founders
of Animetrix for The Vegan Report. So today we
are introducing Animetrix to you and we will
be talking about why culturally grounded and
evidence -based advocacy matters and we will
also be sharing the key insights about our brand
new study which is on Muslim consumers and how
they view animal welfare in halal food production.
Please connect with us. on our email and social
links, which are available in the episode notes.
And you can find new episodes every Wednesday
on this podcast. Please share this episode with
your community as well. And yeah, I would like
to start by saying that it is such a pleasure
to be here. Thank you so much for the intro,
Sueda. So yeah, I'm Gürbike. We are super excited
to share a bit about who we are and some of our
recent research. Just to start, so my background
is in economics. I did my PhD about how behaviors
separate between people, like how social influence
works, and economics of crime. I also work part
-time as an assessor for software projects, and
I also give lectures on animal rights, welfare,
and environmental issues. I do this with Middle
East Vegan Society and... In two and a half years
I have given more than 25 workshops across many
countries like Egypt, Turkey, Rwanda, Uganda,
Mozambique, Sri Lanka, Philippines and El Salvador.
And as for me... I'm a behavioural and experimental
economist and currently I am a post -doctoral
researcher at the Berlin Social Science Centre
where my work is focusing on finding tools to
promote pro -social behaviour across the society,
behaviour such as volunteering, donating, sustainable
actions, pro -environmental actions and so on.
And my previous work has been about studying
discrimination and biases and how they basically
shape people's decision making. And through Animatrix,
I am connecting these perspectives with animal
advocacy. Yeah, so Animatrix was born two years
ago. The idea actually started when we were housemates
in Netherlands during our PhD years. It was out
of long conversations about how we could contribute
to the movements in a more meaningful way. But
for that, we were like keeping asking to each
other and circling back to one question. So how
can we use our skills as economists and academics
to make the advocacy more effective? Yeah, exactly.
So we were looking at the animal advocacy movement
with our, you know, researcher glasses on, and
we noticed that something was missing. So first
of all, we know and appreciate that there's a
lot of great research out there. But much of
this is coming from or focusing on the global
north, even though 85 % of farmed animals live
in the global south or global majority. So that's
billions of lives. And the second thing we realize
is that in animal advocacy, there are almost
no people with advanced training in economics.
And this is super important. Because the animal
advocacy movement, it relies on understanding
the behavior of people or the industry and the
demand and the supply and how they operate and
so on. And to be able to make things better for
the animals, what we need essentially is behavior
change. And economics is the study of exactly
that. So we look into how people make decisions,
how organizations make decisions, and what sorts
of interventions, programs can effectively change
those decisions. Yeah, right. So there's, apart
from that, another gap that we saw. So even though
these good research exists, it doesn't always
reach the advocates. Or it doesn't directly answer
the most pressing questions. So yeah, even when
the data exists, it should be in a format that's
more usable for the advocates. So we want to
fill this gap. So we created Animetrix out of
this and to work in three areas. So, well, first
of all, it should be obvious by now we conduct
research, right? We use economics and behavioral
science to answer the most pressing, moment relevant
questions. And yeah, so we look at how, you know,
how to shift food choices or how to design effective
campaigns and so on. And second, we provide implementation
support. So what does that mean? This means that
we not only publish our findings and tell the
advocates in the movement, say, here's our findings,
do what you've got to do with them, but we try
to turn them, as Gerbike said, into useful formats,
like toolkits, visuals, like short little summaries,
so that advocates can actually put them into
practice. And this is one of the things that
makes us quite unique. So we co -design projects
with the advocates from the start. So it's not
just our academic curiosity or our own little
perspective, but we go to the advocates working
in the fields and ask them what they need, what
is the most pressing need right at that moment.
And we focus on that particular question and
produce our studies based on these insights.
Yeah, and apart from this, our third program
is that we do capacity building. So what does
it look like? We train advocates in research
design, survey methods, impact evaluation and
so on in the things that they need help. So our
aim is that with this capacity, they can run
their own studies or they can use evidence more
strategically. So since we launched, we have
supported over dozens of organizations internationally,
from Uganda to Philippines to Kenya, and we have
delivered more than 300 free trainings. And in
our work, we mostly focus on the global majority
or the global south and also the Muslim majority
regions. So these areas are critical for animals,
but research in these areas and also advocacy
in general in these areas are deeply underfunded.
And of course, we're doing this and we are telling
that as Animatrix, this is our current focus.
And we often get this question like, okay, but
why do you focus on Muslim communities in particular
and what is peculiar about it? Yeah, that's a
really good question. And that is partly related
to our personal background because we both come
from Turkey, from Muslim backgrounds. And we
have long been aware of how questions of food,
faith, or ethics are like integrated in our communities.
But when we look at the broader advocacy and
my advocacy space, we noticed that Muslim perspectives
were almost entirely absence. And of course this
gap matters because Muslim consumers make up
nearly a quarter of world's population. We're
talking about around two billion people here.
And halal food systems, they shape a massive
share of the global meat and dairy production.
So halal consumption is also growing faster than
almost any other part of the global food system.
So all of this means that if you want to make
real global progress for animals, we cannot ignore
these particular segments and their specific
behaviors and perspectives and so on. Yeah, exactly.
So the halal market is really important and it's
projected to keep expanding across Asia, Africa
and even Europe. But the conversations about
animal welfare within the system is just beginning.
And apart from this, most of the animal advocacy
research and messaging is designed for Western
audiences. So it doesn't always fit local realities
or religious frameworks. So we saw a huge challenge
and a huge opportunity, we could say, in terms
of supporting more faith -sensitive and culturally
grounded advocacy. And from this, one example
that really shows our approach is our new study
we run in Turkey on perspectives on halal food
production and animal welfare. So the idea for
this project came from a very personal place
again, because we grew up in Muslim communities
and we often heard people say things like, okay,
I eat halal and halal food means that animals
were treated well. But that belief, I mean the
gap between perception and practice, made us
a bit curious to understand more deeply how people
think about ethics and what is the relation of
animal welfare to halal. Yeah, we basically think
that there's a very strong and comforting belief
that halal automatically guarantees animal welfare,
right, in these halal food production facilities.
But in practice, when we started looking into
it, we realized that halal certification focuses
primarily on the slaughter. methods and processing
rules, and it's not necessarily about how animals
are raised or treated throughout their life.
Yeah, and we weren't the only ones noticing this.
Advocates working in Muslim majority regions
often told us like, yeah, we wish we had data
to back up conversations about this misconception
as well. Yeah, exactly. So we said, okay, you
know, we have this little instinct and advocates
agree with this. So let's go and start designing
a study and test this systematically to really
understand if there is this gap, how big is this
gap, and so on. So we conducted a survey that
included around 800 Muslim adults in Turkey,
which is a country where halal food is the default
for food production. And we were basically after
answering two main questions. So question number
one is, how much do consumers know about whether
certain common and harmful industrial farming
practices are allowed under allowed food production?
Do they know whether or not they're permitted
or not? What's their take? And then we also wanted
to understand In case they don't know, if you
tell them the truth, the correct information,
would this affect their willingness to buy these
products or consider switching to plant -based
alternatives? Yes, so we wanted to understand
how consumer knowledge on the some common industrial
farming practices, which is currently allowed
in halal food production. So we selected six
practices, which are the most one of the most
used ones. So these include tickling, like killing
of male chicks, the beaking of chicken, separating
cow and calf, lack of long -term care for injured
animals or inadequate space for chickens to move
naturally. And for each practice we basically
gave the participants a definition of the practice
and then we asked them Yeah, this practice is
allowed in halal food production, true or false.
You know, we ask them true false questions. And
then if someone answered the question incorrectly,
so basically they're all permitted, right? So
we wanted to understand if they know this or
not. And then if someone said like, oh, I don't
know, or they say that, oh, this is not legal
in halal food production, we tell them, hey,
you know, this is actually legal in halal production.
And then we asked them, you know, knowing this
information, would this affect your willingness
to buy products who involved this specific practice?
And yeah, would this affect your intention to
switch to plant -based options, basically? And
what we saw, the results were really shocking
because all of the six practices we tested, more
than half of the participants either didn't know
whether those practices were permitted under
these halal rules or they incorrect the belief
they were forbidden I mean even though in reality
they are permitted in the halal systems so in
every case at least one in four people held incorrect
beliefs about what halal production actually
allows yeah so like to give a little bit more
um yeah insight with numbers in it so nearly
half of the respondents, about 47%, believe that
in halal facilities, halal certified facilities,
it is legally required to provide long -term
or medical treatment to animals who are injured
or who are no longer, quote -unquote, productive.
And this is simply not true, right? There is
no such legal requirement currently in Turkey's
halal food production system. And similarly,
almost the same share, so again, around half
of the respondents thought that Halal standards
guarantee enough space for chicken to express
their natural behaviors, right? You know, like
opening their wings, for example. And this is
a huge misconception. Yeah, and what participants
were presented with accurate information, their
reactions were really important for us because
Many said that they would be less likely to buy
products from these systems using these practices
and a significant number said that they would
consider plant -based alternatives instead. So
what's especially interesting is that these reactions
weren't also uniform. So not everybody reacted
in the same way, right? There were certain groups
of people. For example, women were way more responsive.
Interestingly, older adults were also more responsive
to information in terms of like changing their
behavior and being more pro -animal, making more
pro -animal welfare choices, let's say. And also
the people who said that animal welfare is a
central part of halal, like as part of the belief,
they were also more responsive to new information.
So we also found that the type of the knowledge
gap method, so we basically compared people who
didn't know but who are not a certain practice
was not allowed to people who had incorrect beliefs,
so the people who thought that they were forbidden.
And the participants who taught a practice was
forbidden when it wasn't showed a stronger reaction
in response. So it seems that for these groups,
learning the truth actually created a sort of
moral tension. Yeah, exactly. So another thing
what we found fascinating is that Around 70 %
of our participants said that animal welfare
is essential to what halal means to them. So
that tells us that for many Muslims, halal isn't
just about technical compliance, but it's broader
than that. It's not only about the technical
side of it. It's a moral framework, so about
compassion, stewardship, and avoiding unnecessary
harm. Yeah, so basically when we show up the
participants that some practices are technically
allowed You know they not always aligned with
with the halal values in terms of like the faith
and and the guidelines and What we think is that
so this is our interpretation of the findings
is that the participants actually experienced?
What psychologists call the cognitive dissonance
right that uncomfortable feeling when your values
and the facts do not match one another And that
discomfort can actually be a bridge for change,
right? So sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't,
but it is definitely worth exploring in this
particular case. Especially when the participants
said that their intentions would change in reaction
to corrected information. So what does this mean
for advocacy? One takeaway is that value -based
framing matters. because it suggests that if
we want to promote plant -forward diet in Muslim
communities, it might not be enough only talking
about climate or health, because we also have
to connect to religious and ethical values that
already motivate people. And of course, this
is not just about Turkey, although we conducted
this study there. We believe that similar dynamics
likely to exist in in other Muslim majority regions
and within diaspora communities. So this is why
we are currently expanding our work to study
how beliefs and Islamic faith and faith -based
perspectives shape behaviour within Muslim communities
across various regions. Yeah, definitely. So
it's our long -term vision. We want to help build
the evidence base for advocates, certifiers,
and policymakers. Yeah, we basically believe
that advocacy becomes much more effective when
it's... builds on what people are already caring
about. So understanding the cultural and moral
dimension, we believe that it's not just something
extra, you know, we bring to the table, but it
is actually central to designing effective strategies
that connect with people and create shifts in
the behavior. I mean, yeah, definitely. And evidence
can guide us. But more importantly, local evidence
is our superpower. I mean, because, for example,
what works in the US or Europe might backfire
in the Middle East or Africa or Asia. So important
strategies often miss the mark. And it's very
important to create it together with the advocates
who are locally relevant, like present there,
to have more impact in the region. I mean we
all have the same goals but we live in different
worlds. That's why we have to try keep one foot
in each world with more like a better research
but also culturally grounded activism. And a
big part of our mission is also to make sure
that our findings, our reports, they just like
don't... collect dust on shelves, but they actually
reach the people who can act on them, who can
change their strategies, their campaigns based
on this. And this is what our implementation
support is about. So we basically help advocates
translate research into strategies through workshops
that are specifically designed for them or through
outputs like infographics and so on that we specifically
create for them to understand and interpret the
findings and use them in their daily work. Yeah,
so if you would like to learn more about our
work or read our Halal Welfare Study or if you're
an advocate and think that this work can benefit
your work in wherever you are Please visit us
at animatrix .org. We are always open to collaborations,
questions or just any conversations about evidence
and activism. And thank you so much for listening
and thank you to everyone out there who is trying
to make this world a better place for all non
-humans, more than humans. Hopefully we can make
sure that every insight, every campaign and every
action brings us closer to a world with less
suffering for all beings.