Welcome to The Vegan Report. My name is Ryan
and today, the story of someone who had the wisdom
to let go for the better. Her name is Catherine
and she is the founder of Safe Sanctuary, which
was the first and only farm sanctuary in Quebec,
hands down the worst Canadian province in terms
of animal welfare. safe for more than 20 years
was central to Catherine's life. Imagine devoting
most of your time, money, energy and thoughts
for 20 years to one project. The sanctuary was
part of her identity. Yet when she realized that
her health was declining and that put the lives
of her animal residents who she calls her babies
and who depended on her in danger. She made the
tough call to relocate her animals and pull the
plug on the sanctuary. This is an exclusive interview
on what it means to retire from full time activism.
I asked Catherine if she had any regrets. what
was the reaction of her supporters, her thoughts
on the future of Quebec, and on backyard chickens,
and much much more. Please consider making a
donation to SAFE in order to finance the relocation
of its animals. Learn more about it in the episode's
notes. And please consider subscribing or following
the show, share this episode, leave a good review,
Every gesture of support helps. Thank you. So
welcome, Catherine. Thank you so much for having
accepted my invitation. Very happy to have you
on. And I guess my first question, I would love
if we could start from the beginning and talk
about the foundation of SAFE. You founded SAFE
in 2016. How did that happen? Well, indeed, in
2016, I purchased a property that was intended
for safe. And the first animals arrived in 2017.
But the actual, I can say, spark that started
the whole thing is perhaps I grew very, very
far in the past is when I was a little girl,
I wanted to have a sanctuary. that I was thinking
of the big cats of Africa. And with the years,
life brought me, the universe brought me on a
totally different path. And it was really in
2015 that it all began. This was a very marking
year. First of all, my son passed away in a motorcycle
accident. That shook my world. I just couldn't.
Nothing had the same meaning. I had to find something.
It's not that I was trying to find something.
It came to me. I came across a book that's called
My Gentle Barn. It's about a lady that started
by saving a goat and then a cow. now has three
of the largest centuries in North America. And
she's really, really inspiring. And I started
reading. I started, you know, you go on the internet
nowadays and you discover so many things. It
is also when I began to discover the vegan world,
whereas before the little publication about saying,
you know, a calf is as cute as a dog. All of
a sudden, it clicked. All of a sudden, it made
up. And that's where it started from. And I sold
my daycare that I had for 35 years. I could have
retired, but I decided to go big and start an
animal sanctuary. And really, that's how it started.
So that was the story behind. That's a beautiful
story. I'm sorry for your loss, the loss of your
son. Did you have any expectations relating to
founding an animal sanctuary? Did you visit other
animal sanctuaries and talk with founders? Well,
I did, after I did all that reading and everything
and went on the internet and I started, especially
that book, I started thinking maybe I can do
the same thing. So I did visit five centuries,
three in the States and two in Canada. They were
well -to -do centers, centers that had been for
years or they were doing well. But they all warned
me. They all warned me, be careful. It's not
easy. It's something that's gonna change your
whole life. Are you ready for this? Yeah, yeah,
yeah. You think you know it all, but it's very
hard to conceive what... a sanctuary means. And
it's not just farm sanctuaries. I think anybody
that's in the rescue will tell you that it just
sticks over your life. And as I said, I visited
sanctuaries. I also attended a week long conference.
It was for people who want to open a sanctuary
or people that have one and want to improve.
And it covered all the bases. So I had a firm
idea of what it was. I said, yeah, we're going
to have volunteers. No big deal. Lots of money
coming in. And that's your expectation. And then
as time goes, as you're building your sector,
it grows by itself. You don't even have to really
call for animals. They come to you. And that's
when the reality sunk in. There are volunteers,
we have volunteers, but because of the work is
five days a week, seven days a week and all year
long, it's not always easy to find the people
to come. It's also hard work. So the novelty
of the beginning wears off and then people don't
have the same enthusiasm to come in. dig and
shovel and carry bales of hay. And then for us,
it was even like COVID hit. It was like two years,
not even two years into a starting safe COVID
hit. And then that's when people disappeared
altogether. So it was very hard. So my expectation
were just like concerning the amount of volunteers
that we were going to get. And the amount of
money that we're going to get was very different
from the reality. So, yeah, it was a big, ooh.
And you are the first and were the only farm
animal sanctuary in Quebec. Why is it the case
that for this long you were the only one? It
was when I first started again, I had no clue
as to what was existing. We actually are the
second sanctuary to open, another one opened
in 2015 and she closed three years, two and a
half years afterwards and went into the same
cloud and I did. So again, I was told a lot of
time it's not easy in Quebec. And the fact is
that we are the only one registered sanctuary
and we are closing, relocating. And the question
is, why? When you have so many in Ontario, you
have some in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Alberta,
BC. It's a question that I have pondered a lot
of time. And I think there's two things. I think
some people are going to hate me. But English
culture, I think it's more open to giving and
to help others in terms of rescue and refugees
and things like that. When you compare Canadian
English the amount of sanctuaries that exist.
To the States, the States, there's hundreds and
hundreds of sanctuaries. They also have a little
bit like, you know, one step over the English
community in terms of giving and giving of their
time. Why is that? I don't know. I don't know.
It's in the culture of giving. But it is a big
difference. And I said that before and I thought
the girl was going to strangle me. But it's an
unfortunate truth. The other side is that society
as a whole has taken a long time to see animals
are not objected as sentient beings, sensible
beings. And even worse for farm animals, sanctuary.
The idea is that we actually value these as living,
caring. feeling beings is very far away. And
in Quebec, again, this attitude towards animals
has come a long way, but it needs to catch up
a little bit more. Like, you know, if you talk
about the puppy mills that we have so many of,
a lot of when we talk about farm animals. It's
a concept that is very hard for people to understand
for a lot of people. They don't understand why
are we saving these animals? Why are we caring
for the animals? They're here for us, they're
here for food. So these two points, again, I
might not be very popular. Well, staying on the
topic of location, Euro Sanctuary was located
very far away from the city, very far away from
places where we usually find vegans and a thriving
vegan community. I guess two questions relating
to that. Was it hard to get those vegans to leave
the city centers? you know, volunteer to your
sanctuary. And then the second question, what
about your neighbors, you know, the farmers all
around? Did they ever understand what you were
doing? Did they ever come to some level of maybe
respect for your work? Okay, I'll answer the
first one. It is definitely a point that was
living so far away from the big centers, Montreal
being the center in this area. If you compare
to a lot of centers are in Ontario and they're
very close to Toronto and they're doing well
because they have more volunteers. So being far
away from the city, definitely had an effect
on the amount of people that would come. Or like
I was saying, in the beginning, it was only the
novelty. And then it's hard. Like people say,
you know, traveling an hour and a half and going
back. And so definitely it was a point. I did
try very, very much in the beginning to find
a property that was closer to Montreal. I love
the eastern townships. I was a child and we came
skiing in the mountains around. But closer to
Montreal, properties were more expensive. And
the further I went, the cheaper it was and the
more affordable it was. So it had a bearing on
me. And in the beginning, we mainly had vegan
from Montreal, people from Montreal. And it took
a couple of years before we start growing a crowd
of people that was from the area. It came from
Sherbrooke and then it came from around the surroundings.
So it took a little while to build that kind
of interest from the Indians around, but we did
begin with the support of the Indian community
in Montreal and then it spread out. So it is
a very interesting point. The second one is our
neighbors. They're mainly farmers. We are surrounded
by farmers. And I knew I had to be careful because
the first century that I spoke about encountered
a lot of problems because she was also surrounded
by farmers and then they burned the horses' tails.
They did a lot of damage to the animals because
she was in an environment or in a place that
wasn't too sympathetic to the idea. So I was
careful. I didn't publicize that I was here.
A lot of people would come and drive from the
town and ask where we were, and nobody knew where
we were, which was fun. We didn't put a sign
on the door or anything. We just kept it low.
And I also tried not to rock the boat. I had
neighbors that weren't. I mean, I didn't know
whether they were open to it or not, but I know
that I was seen as a little bit of the enemy
that was pointing the fingers at foreign practices,
at what the industry does and everything. So
I wanted to keep it quiet. And I ran into a little
bit of a fight with my next -door neighbor who's
just beside. But good years will let it pass.
And interestingly enough, I had conversations
with different farmers. One year I ran out of
hay my first year, actually, hay in the winter,
because I was not prepared that there wasn't
hay to be sold in the winter. And I knocked on
many farmers' doors. And most were helpful. long
conversation with a farmer in my girl. He has
a big farm, big dairy farm. And he was like rough
and tough at the beginning. He didn't want to
talk to me too much. And we had a conversation
and by the end, he actually gave me $40 as a
donation for the century. So it was good. It
was important to learn to live with each other.
Otherwise, we would not have survived. I mean,
we are in farm territory. So, yeah. Well, what
an important story to tell. A dairy farmer giving
$40 to a farm animal sanctuary. That's magical.
What about you? Did it feel isolating to be surrounded
by people that felt like you were the enemy?
Not really, because I knew that what I was doing
was unusual for these people. And as I said before,
I think they felt a little bit pointed at them.
But I had the support and I can see the love
from the communities from Montreal and from all
around. And when people came to the sanctuary,
it was an eye opener to me because in the beginning
I said, I didn't really realize that people would
leave and say, thank you, thank you. And I said,
why are you thanking me? I should thank you.
You did all the shoveling and the heavy. And
little by little, I realized how important this
was for these people. to be able to be in touch
with these animals, to be in touch with their
feelings as well. A lot of them practically have
tears in their eyes and it gave a meaning to
what they liked at that time, to where they could
put their love and get that love back in return.
The animals are very non -judgmental so they
were there. to open to all these people. And
it was a surprise to me to see how much of a
good effect it had on these people. And then
I, okay, it's good. It's good for all. Let's
spend a minute talking about funding. because
you had limited funding, but then the demand
for your services were so great. Can you say
a few words about that demand? Well, there was
definitely people that want to come and visit.
They want to introduce the farm animal to their
children. A lot of people have never met a farm
animal. and it was a great opportunity. Our visits
were very successful, and it was very heartwarming
to see all those people, those children, getting
to be close to those animals, and then oftentimes
understanding what it was that I was trying to
share with them about those big cows that knew
their names, that come and they call them. that
have the same way of reacting as dogs and cats.
There was also a lot of things that just people
didn't know, like the fact that a cow is not
milk -giving animals. She gives milk not because
she's a cow, and she gives milk because she's
a mother. And she's a mother who feeds her baby,
who meant just like humans, just like dogs, just
like cats. So the vision of looking at a cow
as a milk container versus as a mother, she simply
is a mother. So that was just an example. what
happens in the industries. I shared the information.
Visits were a great way of sharing that information,
of educating. And a lot of people are kept in
the dark. And I believe they're kept in the dark
by the industry, by the government. We want to
continue the commerce, the business of selling
milk and milk products and milk creams and eggs.
and chicken. So the truth was kept hidden. Besides,
of course, I'm going to miss my babies. I'm going
to miss the educational aspect of sharing the
truth with people and then seeing their reaction.
A lot of people said, wow, I didn't know. So
that's it. That's the thing I'm going to miss.
And what about the demand for your services as
a caretaker for animals? Did you ever have to
refuse animals, you know, from getting in your
sanctuary because you were full at full capacity?
I bet this was, you know, almost normal. I'm
almost like a habit, you know, of getting a call
from someone who has found a chicken or needs
to get rid of the rooster and asking you to,
you know, take them in. Absolutely. Somebody
actually asked me a while ago, what was the worst
part of running a sanctuary? And I said, it's
having to say no. because it's a constant demand.
There was not a week, there was sometimes often
not a day that passed without having a request
to take in, be it a chicken, a pig, a goat, roosters,
oh my god, roosters. That's a little bit of a
problem with an animal center is that we get
to a limit because we don't adopt that like cats
and dogs. We don't rehabilitate like wild animal
center. We put most, not all, but most of the
animals back in the forest and natural habitat.
We keep them. We keep ours for. as long as they
live. So, we come to capacity and it's actually
something that, I mean, if I were to warn anybody
is, you have to be careful, you have to know
when to say no. You have to learn to say no,
because then you go past capacity, you go past
capacity not only in terms of funds, but in terms
of health, because we need to clean up, we need
to upkeep. So, yes, it is a problem and it was
a Not a problem. I knew was coming and it was
and then you have to take a decision Getting
more and possibly get in trouble or saying no
and being responsible for the animals that you
have in your care When did you realize that he
you will have to you would have to close the
sanctuary Well, it was About three years ago,
I fell in the pool. I didn't fall for many weeks.
And then I was diagnosed with a vertical space
something, a severe case. And I couldn't get
out. I was vomiting nausea for a week. And it
made me realize that I had I have an expirited
gait somewhere. And what would happen if something
did happen, like a serious condition that I couldn't
continue, or if I passed away? What would happen
to all these animals here? They would probably
be distributed in different places on which I
would have no control. I prefer to plan my disappearing
than leave it to fate. And as my health went
down rather than up, it became more and more
evident that I had to do it sooner than later
and to plan. So I started two years ago, like
looking at different places, getting in touch
with other sanctuaries. Originally, my first
choice was to find a team that would be taking
over, but it was very difficult. And it was either
younger people that had the will and the want,
but had no money, or other individuals that would
have money, but not necessarily the good intentions.
So after looking at different teams of people
or different possibilities, I said, no, I prefer
to give. to place them in centuries who have,
you know, proven themselves. So because when
you open, it's not necessarily that you're going
to last 10 years. And that's how it became my
goal. And I felt that as my health was diminishing,
that it was best to I was not able to, I don't
do the work that I used to and it's very very
frustrating. I have to come and want a lot of
people all the time and that I was best to place
these animals, my residents, my babies in the
hands of good people, good sanctuaries rather
than come to a point where I'm doing things not
half as good as I used to because I'm not able
to. because I don't have the strength, I don't
have the brain power to carry that. So I think
it's my last act of love towards my days to place
them in loving hands and having to say goodbye.
Then just pushing forward and closing my eyes
as to the reality of what's happening. I have
to say I am touched by your level of wisdom and
foresight and also love for animals. It is truly
beautiful. Thank you so much. I did not realize
that this was three years in the making too.
So this was truly well organized, well planned
out. this did not come out of nowhere. What was
the emotional journey of those last three years
of, you know, having to separate yourself from
your babies? Well, in the beginning, like the
first year was just trying out different trying
to find out different solutions. And when I first
took my first step. I contacted a sanctuary in
Ontario and she came and she said she wanted
to come in and see the animals and she came.
She drove 10 hours to come and see them and I
did the same thing. I went to see the sanctuary.
That's when it became real. That's when it became,
oh my god this is happening for real. But to
tell you the truth, so many things have happened
in between. So losing some of them, I mean, Calvin,
Marty, the pigs, Elise, Rosie, they were all
an accumulation of losses. And I think I've built
a shell around me that I can't, like sometimes
it becomes, but I can't, I don't let it in. And
it's going to come afterwards. It's going to
explode once I've said goodbye to the last one,
which is coming in September. Sometimes it scares
the heck out of me. I guess this conversation
is pertinent for many reasons. And the first
one would be as a way to inform or educate. um
sanctuary owners out there or people who are
you know supporting um sanctuaries or want to
open their own sanctuaries so throughout you
know this conversation i uh heard you say many
times um you know my advice would be um and i
guess for this question i want to know what is
the the one thing you want people to learn from
your experience? Well, I'll say it. We need sanctuaries,
by all means. If people are wanting to have sanctuaries,
go ahead. You just have to realize that it's
not a walk in the park. It's really a decision
that you It's fantastic when you're young, you
have the energy, you have the strength, you have
the stamina to carry on, but it also burns you.
And it's unfortunately, the reality of this environment
is that it's every day, morning to night, there's
no holidays, there's no Christmas, there's no
parties. So you have to be ready to give it all.
Or to have a team of people that can work together
and give their all. And then at this point, you
have a little bit more of life. But it really
is, as much as you give that your life to them,
it's something that I want. It's something that
a lot of people want to. You just have to be
realistic that it's going to bring you. And I
hear the same thing from all. sanctuary, refuge,
shelters, owners, that they're burned, they're
fatigued. And I'm 68, so I'm not at my youngest
age to carry on. But I would say just be realistic
that you're going to have to invest yourself
and you have to invest, so I have to invest money
at the same time. These are the real facts. You
can do it, but it's not for everybody. You have
to be dedicated yourself, to be ready to dedicate
yourself. And it's a very strong. Maybe it's
something that people don't see. It's fun to
be with animals. It's fun. It's lovely. It's
beautiful. But it's a lot of you as well. You
are still young, Catherine. I want you to see,
you know, doing conferences all around, you know,
talking to vegans, sharing your experience and
all the insights you have gained from this. I
mean, opening a sanctuary in the hostile environment
of Quebec and running it with all the challenges.
You know, I went in preparation for this. conversation,
I went and looked at the Google ratings, the
sanctuary had, and, you know, there are dozens
of them, and every one of them is a five star
review. I mean, this, you run an amazing sanctuary
that, you know, it's unseen, you know, that unity
in recognizing the greatness of that sanctuary.
Once you made the decision and started the process
of transitioning the animals, did you feel any
regrets at all? Did you reflect back to that
time you came across that book about farm sanctuaries?
And did you think maybe I should have made another
choice? and never open an animal sanctuary. Did
you have any kind of regrets about, you know,
the way you manage the sanctuary or even about,
you know, opening a sanctuary in the first place?
I don't have any regrets about opening the sanctuary.
It was a choice that I made and even nowadays
I'll say am I doing the right thing knowing that
I am doing the right thing. for the animals um
uh is opening and running a sanctuary um i was
so obsessed with wanting to do it that i don't
think there was any room for thinking no this
is not what you should do it was just wanting
to get there so um i had no regards no uh it
was my uh my choice and I think I carried it
to the end. I've been, some people have followed.
I was selfish in letting it go like that and
I think it's on the contrary a gesture of love
that I'm doing for them because I'm breaking
my own heart in order for them to be looked after
in the best way possible. So I'm excited about
what I'm doing. Are you still going to visit
them in their new home? Yes, afterwards as much
as possible. I'm planning to go and live with
my son and grandchildren in South Africa. So
it might be a little bit far afterwards. But
for the time being I get, I already have some
that have been placed and I get news from them
and pictures and so as much as possible to get
to see how well I'm doing all so well. It's such
a relief to see how well they're doing and they're
being loved and have these places because I chose
those places and so far it's been good. And when
we bring the cows on the 18th of September, we'll
bring them to their new sanctuary. I will be
going with them. I will ride with the truck and
spend a week there and make sure that they enjoy
their, to get used to the new place. It's going
to be hard leaving, but I know that it's coming.
And what about the future of Quebec? Now that
you're gone, where are the animals going to find
safe heaven in this province? What are your thoughts
on the future of Quebec? Well, there's a lot
of people that say, I've always wanted to open
a sanctuary. I want to open a sanctuary. and
I have the numbers that I'm going to give are
completely out of my own own calculation which
has nothing to do with reality probably but in
so many wanting to it's like in everything in
life there might be one two three people that
would actually be able to do it so I'm hoping
that it was it is going to happen that there
is going to be a couple a family that will want
to invest their time and their lives with the
animals. To make a dance, you would have to have
about a thousand centuries. So what I understood
myself after I opened and I was living with these
animals was that they had a story to tell. They
had their story to tell. And that's when the
educational side of the sanctuary became very
evident, very important. And if I saved 70, 75,
100 animals in the end, by doing, by being an
educational place where we could teach people,
that's what I was telling myself, that the education
would probably save more than just a simple 75
that I had here with me. So the education, education
is very essential. So if we have another one,
two, three centuries that teach that show that
educate, then I'll be great because then we multiply
the effect of the of saving a few, we tell the
stories, we tell the stories behind the doors,
stories of the industries. In the recent years
many cities across Quebec legalized having backyard
chickens Did you feel like this was A terrible
decision from them because I bet you know it
increased the the number of people wanting to,
the number of chickens and roosters that are
abandoned and need a home. I was furious because
I thought it was another way and that came from
the government's encouragement to say, yeah,
get a couple of chicken to get you busy and I'll
get that drink over. And Knowing how people are,
they're fun. It's interesting for the first couple
of, whatever, weeks, months. And then what do
you do with them in the winter? What do you do
with them on the long -term? Oh, we don't lay
eggs anymore. What do we do with them? We bring
them to the sanctuary. We leave them in the street.
I thought it was solely responsible to encourage
people to have small chicken coops in their backyard.
because it was just having like a toy to play
with and it wasn't on turn and it happened. We
had tons and tons of requests to take in hands.
And roosters are another problem. Roosters are
not allowed by most municipalities. They can't,
people that have a chicken coop, could have a
rooster to go with the hens. They're great protectors.
The hens love to have a protector with them.
But then a lot of people are not allowed, so
that's another point against roosters. People
think they're aggressive. They're not aggressive.
They actually want to be held and people don't
believe them. have a big problem on their hands.
Actually, I'll tell you a story about it happened
this week. I got fooled. I'm sorry to say. I
had a young man calling me that he had a hand
in his apartment and he had to place her because
the owner was going to throw him out in the street.
So long story. I was supposed to bring her in
the afternoon. We ended up bringing her at 10
o 'clock in the evening. And I usually go to
bed at 8 .30. So by 10 o 'clock, I was really
tired. I placed her in one of her chicken coop
that we have. And I didn't really look at her.
She looked a little bit different. And it's only
in the morning that I looked at her and realized
it wasn't a her, it's a him. So I now have, after
having placed everybody, all my roosters, everybody,
I now have another rooster to place. And I can't
believe I got taken in because he knew it was
a rooster. I'm sure he got kicked. He was going
to get kicked out because that rooster does this
every morning. and not just morning. So I have
another rooster to place. Yeah, it's a tough
one, you know, to be able to distinguish roosters
from hands more difficult. Oh, yeah, when they're
younger. Absolutely. One last question for you,
Catherine, you mentioned how I think before we
started recording this conversation that the
supporters and volunteers of your sanctuary were
kind of sad that you were closing down. So what
was the reaction of the volunteers, the long
-term volunteers, the supporters, the donors?
What did you get in terms of reaction? Well,
I first want to say that I expected a lot more
backlash from the public and I was surprised,
so happily surprised. There was a flow, it was
a wave of love, of understanding, of encouragement.
It was fantastic. And with the volunteers, it
was the same. I mean, we've been part of the
family for a long time. But a lot of sadness,
they understood because at the first step, we
understand the amount of work that requires,
the amount of dedication on their part because
we count on our volunteers to function. And at
the same time, a big understanding. I mean, one
of our volunteers said she offered to clean one
of the barns because there's a lot less work.
But she said, I can clean up the whole barn from
up here. And she said she stood at an empty barn
and cried her eyes out for, I don't know how
long. And it's the type of feelings, the type
of connections that we have with our animals.
There are children, literally they have personalities,
they have attachment with each other, with other
species. I mean, lately, the cows have been acting
like, not weird in a bad way, but like you can
see their... It's either the silence, or it's
either the lack of movement. It's become so quiet,
and they look around, and they look at me, and
you can feel what's going on. So I think even
they feel that something has changed, and the
connection that they had with the other animals
has changed. I mean, it's not there anymore.
And they're very aware of everything. I mean,
the volunteers, the animals, are all feeling
the impact of it. But for the volunteers, it's
been hard. It's been hard. Like some of them
say we come and it's empty. It's too silent.
It's too... And yes, it's true. It is. Thank
you so much, Katrin, for your answers. Did you
want to add something before we stop the recording?
I would say we have to keep on going forward.
We can't let go. There's lots of the younger
generation can go ahead. The older generation
can help. But there's so much room, so much need
to have sanctuaries for farm animals. We can't
let go of them. Farm animals are really true.
You hear it from me. I have a farm animal sanctuary,
but they are like our other pets. They are like
human beings. They have feelings. They're smart.
They have memories. They're funny. They're so
full of love, and we have so much love to give
them that we have to keep on fighting for them.
We can't just let the industries continue to
do what they do. In this day and age, we're no
longer at the time of the cavemen that had to
go hunting, although most cavemen didn't have
to eat meat. They ate a lot of other things.
But in this day and age on this planet, there's
just so many humans and we have to do something.
We can't just carry on. That's the way we've
always done it. We're killing the planet and
we can't just sustain feeding all those millions
of people just by eating animals. We have to
go through a more sustainable way of producing
to feed the planet and to stop to stop the abuse,
to stop the hurting them, to stop them. So yes,
the fight must go on from all sides. As I said,
it's a war on all sides. It's not just a war
in the sanctuaries, but it's a war on all sides
where we have to keep on telling the truth. We
have to keep on, I don't want to say, forcing
people to wake up. People have a blindfold. The
industries and the governments have done a wonderful
job at hiding the truth, and we have to take
off that blindfold. I had that blindfold on for
years, but we can't. We have to go forward. But
you also decided, and again, as you described,
you love those animals, and it is out of love
that you decided to you know, take a few step
backs and choose another way of helping animals.
And it takes lots of courage to do so. It takes
lots of wisdom and courage to do so. I think
so many activists are married to their activism,
married to their method of activism, to their
organization, to their sanctuary. And they're
too attached. They're not thinking about the
long term. They're thinking just about the short
term, emergency after emergency. And when you
mentioned, you know, the future and where do
you want to lead this organization or this initiative?
there is no plan there is no plan and which is
foolish and also dangerous for the animals that
are under their care i feel like but again you
can't blame them it's you know they're possessed
by that passion and they can't let it go Do you
have a message for them? Because, you know, all
throughout this conversation, I kept thinking
about different sanctuary owners, I know, who
are just overworked and burned out. Do you have
a message for them? Well, because I've spoken,
talked to a few from other provinces, and we
all feel the same. We all felt overworked. And
each person puts their life and their health.
So it's wonderful if they can carry out, but
eventually, unless they have a plan to move on
with either children or other people. what's
going to happen when they reach a time where,
whether it's health or older age, I'm not going
to say old age, that puts a stop to the carrying
on. So they have to have a future. Everybody
has to think of what's next. During what we're
doing, we don't even have time to think about
it. We have to carry on. We have to have a plan
in action, a plan to what's going to happen next,
because we can't just stop. It has to continue.
We have to have more younger people to get into
it. It's not for everybody. You have to have
a strong back, physically and mentally, both
of them. I would tell them. As I know, I don't
give up. I feel for you and I know what you're
going through. And thank you for being there.
That's a wonderful message and great parting
words. Thank you so much, Katrin. Thank you so
much for all the great work you've done with
SAFE. Thank you for showing a model of how to
responsibly take care of animals. and thank you
for having taken the time to answer my questions.
I truly appreciate it. My pleasure. I probably
will find something to do and carry on the stories
because I don't know how to sit and put on my
phone. Thank you everyone for listening. I kindly
invite you to share this podcast with the vegans
you know. Let's encourage more people to take
action. Again, thank you so much for caring,
and I will see you next Tuesday for a new episode.