WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.879 Welcome to The Vegan Report. My name is Ryan 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:06.440 and today, the story of someone who had the wisdom 00:00:06.440 --> 00:00:10.560 to let go for the better. Her name is Catherine 00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:14.640 and she is the founder of Safe Sanctuary, which 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.559 was the first and only farm sanctuary in Quebec, 00:00:19.260 --> 00:00:22.059 hands down the worst Canadian province in terms 00:00:22.059 --> 00:00:27.219 of animal welfare. safe for more than 20 years 00:00:27.219 --> 00:00:32.280 was central to Catherine's life. Imagine devoting 00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:36.119 most of your time, money, energy and thoughts 00:00:36.119 --> 00:00:41.740 for 20 years to one project. The sanctuary was 00:00:41.740 --> 00:00:47.039 part of her identity. Yet when she realized that 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:51.490 her health was declining and that put the lives 00:00:51.490 --> 00:00:54.950 of her animal residents who she calls her babies 00:00:54.950 --> 00:01:00.149 and who depended on her in danger. She made the 00:01:00.149 --> 00:01:04.709 tough call to relocate her animals and pull the 00:01:04.709 --> 00:01:09.349 plug on the sanctuary. This is an exclusive interview 00:01:09.349 --> 00:01:13.549 on what it means to retire from full time activism. 00:01:14.250 --> 00:01:18.319 I asked Catherine if she had any regrets. what 00:01:18.319 --> 00:01:21.780 was the reaction of her supporters, her thoughts 00:01:21.780 --> 00:01:25.980 on the future of Quebec, and on backyard chickens, 00:01:26.620 --> 00:01:29.819 and much much more. Please consider making a 00:01:29.819 --> 00:01:33.840 donation to SAFE in order to finance the relocation 00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:38.099 of its animals. Learn more about it in the episode's 00:01:38.099 --> 00:01:42.040 notes. And please consider subscribing or following 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:45.620 the show, share this episode, leave a good review, 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:51.140 Every gesture of support helps. Thank you. So 00:01:51.140 --> 00:01:53.799 welcome, Catherine. Thank you so much for having 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:57.299 accepted my invitation. Very happy to have you 00:01:57.299 --> 00:02:02.159 on. And I guess my first question, I would love 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:07.140 if we could start from the beginning and talk 00:02:07.140 --> 00:02:12.159 about the foundation of SAFE. You founded SAFE 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:17.199 in 2016. How did that happen? Well, indeed, in 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:21.659 2016, I purchased a property that was intended 00:02:21.659 --> 00:02:28.699 for safe. And the first animals arrived in 2017. 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:35.939 But the actual, I can say, spark that started 00:02:35.939 --> 00:02:39.680 the whole thing is perhaps I grew very, very 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:42.340 far in the past is when I was a little girl, 00:02:42.620 --> 00:02:46.590 I wanted to have a sanctuary. that I was thinking 00:02:46.590 --> 00:02:50.990 of the big cats of Africa. And with the years, 00:02:52.710 --> 00:02:55.229 life brought me, the universe brought me on a 00:02:55.229 --> 00:03:00.969 totally different path. And it was really in 00:03:00.969 --> 00:03:07.409 2015 that it all began. This was a very marking 00:03:07.409 --> 00:03:12.550 year. First of all, my son passed away in a motorcycle 00:03:12.550 --> 00:03:17.560 accident. That shook my world. I just couldn't. 00:03:18.099 --> 00:03:24.199 Nothing had the same meaning. I had to find something. 00:03:24.919 --> 00:03:27.400 It's not that I was trying to find something. 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:35.060 It came to me. I came across a book that's called 00:03:35.060 --> 00:03:39.939 My Gentle Barn. It's about a lady that started 00:03:39.939 --> 00:03:43.699 by saving a goat and then a cow. now has three 00:03:43.699 --> 00:03:47.819 of the largest centuries in North America. And 00:03:47.819 --> 00:03:50.819 she's really, really inspiring. And I started 00:03:50.819 --> 00:03:53.139 reading. I started, you know, you go on the internet 00:03:53.139 --> 00:03:56.580 nowadays and you discover so many things. It 00:03:56.580 --> 00:04:02.099 is also when I began to discover the vegan world, 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:08.000 whereas before the little publication about saying, 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:11.469 you know, a calf is as cute as a dog. All of 00:04:11.469 --> 00:04:13.530 a sudden, it clicked. All of a sudden, it made 00:04:13.530 --> 00:04:19.250 up. And that's where it started from. And I sold 00:04:19.250 --> 00:04:26.949 my daycare that I had for 35 years. I could have 00:04:26.949 --> 00:04:31.470 retired, but I decided to go big and start an 00:04:31.470 --> 00:04:34.850 animal sanctuary. And really, that's how it started. 00:04:35.310 --> 00:04:40.589 So that was the story behind. That's a beautiful 00:04:40.589 --> 00:04:46.250 story. I'm sorry for your loss, the loss of your 00:04:46.250 --> 00:04:54.410 son. Did you have any expectations relating to 00:04:54.410 --> 00:04:58.930 founding an animal sanctuary? Did you visit other 00:04:58.930 --> 00:05:03.790 animal sanctuaries and talk with founders? Well, 00:05:04.069 --> 00:05:07.110 I did, after I did all that reading and everything 00:05:07.110 --> 00:05:10.029 and went on the internet and I started, especially 00:05:10.029 --> 00:05:12.089 that book, I started thinking maybe I can do 00:05:12.089 --> 00:05:15.870 the same thing. So I did visit five centuries, 00:05:17.250 --> 00:05:25.670 three in the States and two in Canada. They were 00:05:25.670 --> 00:05:28.509 well -to -do centers, centers that had been for 00:05:28.509 --> 00:05:32.870 years or they were doing well. But they all warned 00:05:32.870 --> 00:05:36.170 me. They all warned me, be careful. It's not 00:05:36.170 --> 00:05:39.170 easy. It's something that's gonna change your 00:05:39.170 --> 00:05:41.990 whole life. Are you ready for this? Yeah, yeah, 00:05:42.129 --> 00:05:45.889 yeah. You think you know it all, but it's very 00:05:45.889 --> 00:05:49.500 hard to conceive what... a sanctuary means. And 00:05:49.500 --> 00:05:51.160 it's not just farm sanctuaries. I think anybody 00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:54.579 that's in the rescue will tell you that it just 00:05:54.579 --> 00:06:01.040 sticks over your life. And as I said, I visited 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:06.220 sanctuaries. I also attended a week long conference. 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:09.100 It was for people who want to open a sanctuary 00:06:09.100 --> 00:06:11.100 or people that have one and want to improve. 00:06:11.620 --> 00:06:15.079 And it covered all the bases. So I had a firm 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:18.910 idea of what it was. I said, yeah, we're going 00:06:18.910 --> 00:06:24.149 to have volunteers. No big deal. Lots of money 00:06:24.149 --> 00:06:29.149 coming in. And that's your expectation. And then 00:06:29.149 --> 00:06:32.069 as time goes, as you're building your sector, 00:06:32.350 --> 00:06:37.670 it grows by itself. You don't even have to really 00:06:37.670 --> 00:06:42.329 call for animals. They come to you. And that's 00:06:42.329 --> 00:06:52.379 when the reality sunk in. There are volunteers, 00:06:52.579 --> 00:06:55.680 we have volunteers, but because of the work is 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:59.540 five days a week, seven days a week and all year 00:06:59.540 --> 00:07:04.040 long, it's not always easy to find the people 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:07.519 to come. It's also hard work. So the novelty 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:11.240 of the beginning wears off and then people don't 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:14.889 have the same enthusiasm to come in. dig and 00:07:14.889 --> 00:07:21.930 shovel and carry bales of hay. And then for us, 00:07:21.970 --> 00:07:25.529 it was even like COVID hit. It was like two years, 00:07:25.689 --> 00:07:29.449 not even two years into a starting safe COVID 00:07:29.449 --> 00:07:32.089 hit. And then that's when people disappeared 00:07:32.089 --> 00:07:36.589 altogether. So it was very hard. So my expectation 00:07:36.589 --> 00:07:40.370 were just like concerning the amount of volunteers 00:07:40.370 --> 00:07:43.269 that we were going to get. And the amount of 00:07:43.269 --> 00:07:46.069 money that we're going to get was very different 00:07:46.069 --> 00:07:50.589 from the reality. So, yeah, it was a big, ooh. 00:07:51.389 --> 00:07:56.629 And you are the first and were the only farm 00:07:56.629 --> 00:08:00.509 animal sanctuary in Quebec. Why is it the case 00:08:00.509 --> 00:08:05.949 that for this long you were the only one? It 00:08:05.949 --> 00:08:10.920 was when I first started again, I had no clue 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:15.220 as to what was existing. We actually are the 00:08:15.220 --> 00:08:18.699 second sanctuary to open, another one opened 00:08:18.699 --> 00:08:22.579 in 2015 and she closed three years, two and a 00:08:22.579 --> 00:08:25.100 half years afterwards and went into the same 00:08:25.100 --> 00:08:28.740 cloud and I did. So again, I was told a lot of 00:08:28.740 --> 00:08:33.580 time it's not easy in Quebec. And the fact is 00:08:33.580 --> 00:08:36.700 that we are the only one registered sanctuary 00:08:36.700 --> 00:08:42.919 and we are closing, relocating. And the question 00:08:42.919 --> 00:08:48.700 is, why? When you have so many in Ontario, you 00:08:48.700 --> 00:08:52.139 have some in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Alberta, 00:08:52.740 --> 00:08:59.899 BC. It's a question that I have pondered a lot 00:08:59.899 --> 00:09:06.159 of time. And I think there's two things. I think 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:10.759 some people are going to hate me. But English 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:21.120 culture, I think it's more open to giving and 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:29.019 to help others in terms of rescue and refugees 00:09:29.019 --> 00:09:34.000 and things like that. When you compare Canadian 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:39.700 English the amount of sanctuaries that exist. 00:09:40.139 --> 00:09:43.639 To the States, the States, there's hundreds and 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:46.600 hundreds of sanctuaries. They also have a little 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:50.019 bit like, you know, one step over the English 00:09:50.019 --> 00:09:53.720 community in terms of giving and giving of their 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:58.039 time. Why is that? I don't know. I don't know. 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:02.860 It's in the culture of giving. But it is a big 00:10:02.860 --> 00:10:05.179 difference. And I said that before and I thought 00:10:05.179 --> 00:10:09.600 the girl was going to strangle me. But it's an 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:15.019 unfortunate truth. The other side is that society 00:10:15.019 --> 00:10:19.740 as a whole has taken a long time to see animals 00:10:19.740 --> 00:10:24.100 are not objected as sentient beings, sensible 00:10:24.100 --> 00:10:28.259 beings. And even worse for farm animals, sanctuary. 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:33.519 The idea is that we actually value these as living, 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:41.470 caring. feeling beings is very far away. And 00:10:41.470 --> 00:10:47.690 in Quebec, again, this attitude towards animals 00:10:47.690 --> 00:10:54.909 has come a long way, but it needs to catch up 00:10:54.909 --> 00:10:57.289 a little bit more. Like, you know, if you talk 00:10:57.289 --> 00:10:59.970 about the puppy mills that we have so many of, 00:11:00.190 --> 00:11:06.019 a lot of when we talk about farm animals. It's 00:11:06.019 --> 00:11:09.259 a concept that is very hard for people to understand 00:11:09.259 --> 00:11:12.019 for a lot of people. They don't understand why 00:11:12.019 --> 00:11:14.220 are we saving these animals? Why are we caring 00:11:14.220 --> 00:11:16.460 for the animals? They're here for us, they're 00:11:16.460 --> 00:11:22.639 here for food. So these two points, again, I 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:30.460 might not be very popular. Well, staying on the 00:11:30.460 --> 00:11:37.809 topic of location, Euro Sanctuary was located 00:11:37.809 --> 00:11:43.950 very far away from the city, very far away from 00:11:43.950 --> 00:11:49.649 places where we usually find vegans and a thriving 00:11:49.649 --> 00:11:53.590 vegan community. I guess two questions relating 00:11:53.590 --> 00:11:59.870 to that. Was it hard to get those vegans to leave 00:11:59.870 --> 00:12:05.730 the city centers? you know, volunteer to your 00:12:05.730 --> 00:12:11.789 sanctuary. And then the second question, what 00:12:11.789 --> 00:12:15.070 about your neighbors, you know, the farmers all 00:12:15.070 --> 00:12:20.009 around? Did they ever understand what you were 00:12:20.009 --> 00:12:26.450 doing? Did they ever come to some level of maybe 00:12:26.450 --> 00:12:31.350 respect for your work? Okay, I'll answer the 00:12:31.350 --> 00:12:38.950 first one. It is definitely a point that was 00:12:38.950 --> 00:12:43.149 living so far away from the big centers, Montreal 00:12:43.149 --> 00:12:46.970 being the center in this area. If you compare 00:12:46.970 --> 00:12:49.710 to a lot of centers are in Ontario and they're 00:12:49.710 --> 00:12:53.070 very close to Toronto and they're doing well 00:12:53.070 --> 00:12:56.970 because they have more volunteers. So being far 00:12:56.970 --> 00:13:01.429 away from the city, definitely had an effect 00:13:01.429 --> 00:13:04.529 on the amount of people that would come. Or like 00:13:04.529 --> 00:13:07.850 I was saying, in the beginning, it was only the 00:13:07.850 --> 00:13:11.250 novelty. And then it's hard. Like people say, 00:13:11.250 --> 00:13:14.950 you know, traveling an hour and a half and going 00:13:14.950 --> 00:13:18.649 back. And so definitely it was a point. I did 00:13:18.649 --> 00:13:20.909 try very, very much in the beginning to find 00:13:20.909 --> 00:13:23.929 a property that was closer to Montreal. I love 00:13:23.929 --> 00:13:29.049 the eastern townships. I was a child and we came 00:13:29.049 --> 00:13:33.750 skiing in the mountains around. But closer to 00:13:33.750 --> 00:13:37.710 Montreal, properties were more expensive. And 00:13:37.710 --> 00:13:40.409 the further I went, the cheaper it was and the 00:13:40.409 --> 00:13:44.110 more affordable it was. So it had a bearing on 00:13:44.110 --> 00:13:49.350 me. And in the beginning, we mainly had vegan 00:13:49.350 --> 00:13:52.230 from Montreal, people from Montreal. And it took 00:13:52.230 --> 00:13:59.470 a couple of years before we start growing a crowd 00:13:59.470 --> 00:14:03.250 of people that was from the area. It came from 00:14:03.250 --> 00:14:05.990 Sherbrooke and then it came from around the surroundings. 00:14:06.690 --> 00:14:09.190 So it took a little while to build that kind 00:14:09.190 --> 00:14:15.149 of interest from the Indians around, but we did 00:14:15.149 --> 00:14:18.070 begin with the support of the Indian community 00:14:18.070 --> 00:14:23.470 in Montreal and then it spread out. So it is 00:14:23.470 --> 00:14:27.279 a very interesting point. The second one is our 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:31.799 neighbors. They're mainly farmers. We are surrounded 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:35.899 by farmers. And I knew I had to be careful because 00:14:35.899 --> 00:14:39.519 the first century that I spoke about encountered 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:42.899 a lot of problems because she was also surrounded 00:14:42.899 --> 00:14:49.679 by farmers and then they burned the horses' tails. 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:53.159 They did a lot of damage to the animals because 00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:55.159 she was in an environment or in a place that 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:59.980 wasn't too sympathetic to the idea. So I was 00:14:59.980 --> 00:15:02.539 careful. I didn't publicize that I was here. 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:06.139 A lot of people would come and drive from the 00:15:06.139 --> 00:15:08.519 town and ask where we were, and nobody knew where 00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:11.679 we were, which was fun. We didn't put a sign 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:14.019 on the door or anything. We just kept it low. 00:15:14.860 --> 00:15:20.700 And I also tried not to rock the boat. I had 00:15:20.700 --> 00:15:26.559 neighbors that weren't. I mean, I didn't know 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:29.539 whether they were open to it or not, but I know 00:15:29.539 --> 00:15:32.919 that I was seen as a little bit of the enemy 00:15:32.919 --> 00:15:38.440 that was pointing the fingers at foreign practices, 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:41.519 at what the industry does and everything. So 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:47.159 I wanted to keep it quiet. And I ran into a little 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:50.379 bit of a fight with my next -door neighbor who's 00:15:50.379 --> 00:15:55.259 just beside. But good years will let it pass. 00:15:57.720 --> 00:16:02.580 And interestingly enough, I had conversations 00:16:02.580 --> 00:16:06.500 with different farmers. One year I ran out of 00:16:06.500 --> 00:16:08.899 hay my first year, actually, hay in the winter, 00:16:09.059 --> 00:16:10.799 because I was not prepared that there wasn't 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:13.720 hay to be sold in the winter. And I knocked on 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:20.320 many farmers' doors. And most were helpful. long 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:23.960 conversation with a farmer in my girl. He has 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:26.879 a big farm, big dairy farm. And he was like rough 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:29.840 and tough at the beginning. He didn't want to 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:34.740 talk to me too much. And we had a conversation 00:16:34.740 --> 00:16:38.639 and by the end, he actually gave me $40 as a 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:45.039 donation for the century. So it was good. It 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:47.799 was important to learn to live with each other. 00:16:47.899 --> 00:16:50.700 Otherwise, we would not have survived. I mean, 00:16:50.860 --> 00:16:57.000 we are in farm territory. So, yeah. Well, what 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:01.279 an important story to tell. A dairy farmer giving 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:07.440 $40 to a farm animal sanctuary. That's magical. 00:17:08.460 --> 00:17:13.599 What about you? Did it feel isolating to be surrounded 00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:17.059 by people that felt like you were the enemy? 00:17:18.910 --> 00:17:23.069 Not really, because I knew that what I was doing 00:17:23.069 --> 00:17:32.269 was unusual for these people. And as I said before, 00:17:33.170 --> 00:17:36.690 I think they felt a little bit pointed at them. 00:17:38.369 --> 00:17:44.309 But I had the support and I can see the love 00:17:44.309 --> 00:17:47.750 from the communities from Montreal and from all 00:17:47.750 --> 00:17:51.049 around. And when people came to the sanctuary, 00:17:51.470 --> 00:17:55.829 it was an eye opener to me because in the beginning 00:17:55.829 --> 00:17:59.009 I said, I didn't really realize that people would 00:17:59.009 --> 00:18:05.390 leave and say, thank you, thank you. And I said, 00:18:05.869 --> 00:18:07.990 why are you thanking me? I should thank you. 00:18:08.390 --> 00:18:11.690 You did all the shoveling and the heavy. And 00:18:11.690 --> 00:18:14.950 little by little, I realized how important this 00:18:14.950 --> 00:18:18.279 was for these people. to be able to be in touch 00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:23.099 with these animals, to be in touch with their 00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:27.039 feelings as well. A lot of them practically have 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:32.019 tears in their eyes and it gave a meaning to 00:18:32.019 --> 00:18:36.059 what they liked at that time, to where they could 00:18:36.059 --> 00:18:38.559 put their love and get that love back in return. 00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:45.039 The animals are very non -judgmental so they 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:49.779 were there. to open to all these people. And 00:18:49.779 --> 00:18:55.380 it was a surprise to me to see how much of a 00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:58.400 good effect it had on these people. And then 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:06.920 I, okay, it's good. It's good for all. Let's 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:10.589 spend a minute talking about funding. because 00:19:10.589 --> 00:19:13.410 you had limited funding, but then the demand 00:19:13.410 --> 00:19:19.809 for your services were so great. Can you say 00:19:19.809 --> 00:19:24.869 a few words about that demand? Well, there was 00:19:24.869 --> 00:19:28.549 definitely people that want to come and visit. 00:19:29.049 --> 00:19:32.609 They want to introduce the farm animal to their 00:19:32.609 --> 00:19:37.190 children. A lot of people have never met a farm 00:19:37.190 --> 00:19:42.529 animal. and it was a great opportunity. Our visits 00:19:42.529 --> 00:19:47.670 were very successful, and it was very heartwarming 00:19:47.670 --> 00:19:50.390 to see all those people, those children, getting 00:19:50.390 --> 00:19:53.750 to be close to those animals, and then oftentimes 00:19:53.750 --> 00:19:57.869 understanding what it was that I was trying to 00:19:57.869 --> 00:20:04.349 share with them about those big cows that knew 00:20:04.349 --> 00:20:08.240 their names, that come and they call them. that 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:13.839 have the same way of reacting as dogs and cats. 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:21.940 There was also a lot of things that just people 00:20:21.940 --> 00:20:28.319 didn't know, like the fact that a cow is not 00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:32.599 milk -giving animals. She gives milk not because 00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:35.799 she's a cow, and she gives milk because she's 00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:44.119 a mother. And she's a mother who feeds her baby, 00:20:44.259 --> 00:20:46.680 who meant just like humans, just like dogs, just 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:50.099 like cats. So the vision of looking at a cow 00:20:50.099 --> 00:20:58.119 as a milk container versus as a mother, she simply 00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:02.440 is a mother. So that was just an example. what 00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:06.460 happens in the industries. I shared the information. 00:21:07.779 --> 00:21:11.440 Visits were a great way of sharing that information, 00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:14.259 of educating. And a lot of people are kept in 00:21:14.259 --> 00:21:16.980 the dark. And I believe they're kept in the dark 00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:19.759 by the industry, by the government. We want to 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:26.059 continue the commerce, the business of selling 00:21:26.059 --> 00:21:30.299 milk and milk products and milk creams and eggs. 00:21:32.250 --> 00:21:42.309 and chicken. So the truth was kept hidden. Besides, 00:21:42.410 --> 00:21:48.410 of course, I'm going to miss my babies. I'm going 00:21:48.410 --> 00:21:53.670 to miss the educational aspect of sharing the 00:21:53.670 --> 00:21:56.930 truth with people and then seeing their reaction. 00:21:57.509 --> 00:22:00.250 A lot of people said, wow, I didn't know. So 00:22:00.250 --> 00:22:02.630 that's it. That's the thing I'm going to miss. 00:22:03.750 --> 00:22:08.390 And what about the demand for your services as 00:22:08.390 --> 00:22:13.210 a caretaker for animals? Did you ever have to 00:22:13.210 --> 00:22:18.630 refuse animals, you know, from getting in your 00:22:18.630 --> 00:22:21.970 sanctuary because you were full at full capacity? 00:22:23.250 --> 00:22:29.210 I bet this was, you know, almost normal. I'm 00:22:29.210 --> 00:22:32.710 almost like a habit, you know, of getting a call 00:22:32.710 --> 00:22:36.829 from someone who has found a chicken or needs 00:22:36.829 --> 00:22:40.950 to get rid of the rooster and asking you to, 00:22:40.950 --> 00:22:45.990 you know, take them in. Absolutely. Somebody 00:22:45.990 --> 00:22:50.450 actually asked me a while ago, what was the worst 00:22:50.450 --> 00:22:55.029 part of running a sanctuary? And I said, it's 00:22:55.029 --> 00:23:00.200 having to say no. because it's a constant demand. 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:08.220 There was not a week, there was sometimes often 00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:10.680 not a day that passed without having a request 00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:18.279 to take in, be it a chicken, a pig, a goat, roosters, 00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:28.920 oh my god, roosters. That's a little bit of a 00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:31.720 problem with an animal center is that we get 00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:36.319 to a limit because we don't adopt that like cats 00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:41.400 and dogs. We don't rehabilitate like wild animal 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.380 center. We put most, not all, but most of the 00:23:45.380 --> 00:23:47.700 animals back in the forest and natural habitat. 00:23:48.220 --> 00:23:52.859 We keep them. We keep ours for. as long as they 00:23:52.859 --> 00:23:56.900 live. So, we come to capacity and it's actually 00:23:56.900 --> 00:24:00.759 something that, I mean, if I were to warn anybody 00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:03.880 is, you have to be careful, you have to know 00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:06.680 when to say no. You have to learn to say no, 00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:10.180 because then you go past capacity, you go past 00:24:10.180 --> 00:24:12.619 capacity not only in terms of funds, but in terms 00:24:12.619 --> 00:24:15.059 of health, because we need to clean up, we need 00:24:15.059 --> 00:24:21.279 to upkeep. So, yes, it is a problem and it was 00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:24.269 a Not a problem. I knew was coming and it was 00:24:24.269 --> 00:24:29.049 and then you have to take a decision Getting 00:24:29.049 --> 00:24:32.390 more and possibly get in trouble or saying no 00:24:32.390 --> 00:24:34.849 and being responsible for the animals that you 00:24:34.849 --> 00:24:41.509 have in your care When did you realize that he 00:24:41.509 --> 00:24:45.210 you will have to you would have to close the 00:24:45.210 --> 00:24:51.329 sanctuary Well, it was About three years ago, 00:24:54.170 --> 00:24:58.970 I fell in the pool. I didn't fall for many weeks. 00:24:59.349 --> 00:25:04.970 And then I was diagnosed with a vertical space 00:25:04.970 --> 00:25:09.410 something, a severe case. And I couldn't get 00:25:09.410 --> 00:25:14.089 out. I was vomiting nausea for a week. And it 00:25:14.089 --> 00:25:20.450 made me realize that I had I have an expirited 00:25:20.450 --> 00:25:25.730 gait somewhere. And what would happen if something 00:25:25.730 --> 00:25:30.509 did happen, like a serious condition that I couldn't 00:25:30.509 --> 00:25:33.509 continue, or if I passed away? What would happen 00:25:33.509 --> 00:25:37.849 to all these animals here? They would probably 00:25:37.849 --> 00:25:44.430 be distributed in different places on which I 00:25:44.430 --> 00:25:53.609 would have no control. I prefer to plan my disappearing 00:25:53.609 --> 00:25:59.589 than leave it to fate. And as my health went 00:25:59.589 --> 00:26:02.670 down rather than up, it became more and more 00:26:02.670 --> 00:26:05.009 evident that I had to do it sooner than later 00:26:05.009 --> 00:26:09.690 and to plan. So I started two years ago, like 00:26:09.690 --> 00:26:12.230 looking at different places, getting in touch 00:26:12.230 --> 00:26:15.289 with other sanctuaries. Originally, my first 00:26:15.289 --> 00:26:18.589 choice was to find a team that would be taking 00:26:18.589 --> 00:26:24.130 over, but it was very difficult. And it was either 00:26:24.130 --> 00:26:28.549 younger people that had the will and the want, 00:26:29.789 --> 00:26:34.470 but had no money, or other individuals that would 00:26:34.470 --> 00:26:36.769 have money, but not necessarily the good intentions. 00:26:37.529 --> 00:26:40.809 So after looking at different teams of people 00:26:40.809 --> 00:26:43.690 or different possibilities, I said, no, I prefer 00:26:43.690 --> 00:26:47.269 to give. to place them in centuries who have, 00:26:47.269 --> 00:26:52.670 you know, proven themselves. So because when 00:26:52.670 --> 00:26:55.049 you open, it's not necessarily that you're going 00:26:55.049 --> 00:26:59.910 to last 10 years. And that's how it became my 00:26:59.910 --> 00:27:04.970 goal. And I felt that as my health was diminishing, 00:27:05.289 --> 00:27:09.079 that it was best to I was not able to, I don't 00:27:09.079 --> 00:27:11.319 do the work that I used to and it's very very 00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:13.980 frustrating. I have to come and want a lot of 00:27:13.980 --> 00:27:19.339 people all the time and that I was best to place 00:27:19.339 --> 00:27:23.220 these animals, my residents, my babies in the 00:27:23.220 --> 00:27:27.359 hands of good people, good sanctuaries rather 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:30.400 than come to a point where I'm doing things not 00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:33.599 half as good as I used to because I'm not able 00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:36.920 to. because I don't have the strength, I don't 00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:42.759 have the brain power to carry that. So I think 00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:47.259 it's my last act of love towards my days to place 00:27:47.259 --> 00:27:50.579 them in loving hands and having to say goodbye. 00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:54.859 Then just pushing forward and closing my eyes 00:27:54.859 --> 00:27:59.599 as to the reality of what's happening. I have 00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:03.720 to say I am touched by your level of wisdom and 00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:08.400 foresight and also love for animals. It is truly 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:17.019 beautiful. Thank you so much. I did not realize 00:28:17.019 --> 00:28:20.259 that this was three years in the making too. 00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:26.000 So this was truly well organized, well planned 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:33.019 out. this did not come out of nowhere. What was 00:28:33.019 --> 00:28:36.460 the emotional journey of those last three years 00:28:36.460 --> 00:28:41.220 of, you know, having to separate yourself from 00:28:41.220 --> 00:28:45.000 your babies? Well, in the beginning, like the 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.839 first year was just trying out different trying 00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:56.519 to find out different solutions. And when I first 00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:02.720 took my first step. I contacted a sanctuary in 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:05.200 Ontario and she came and she said she wanted 00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:08.180 to come in and see the animals and she came. 00:29:08.619 --> 00:29:11.660 She drove 10 hours to come and see them and I 00:29:11.660 --> 00:29:14.640 did the same thing. I went to see the sanctuary. 00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:17.839 That's when it became real. That's when it became, 00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:22.480 oh my god this is happening for real. But to 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:25.259 tell you the truth, so many things have happened 00:29:25.259 --> 00:29:29.410 in between. So losing some of them, I mean, Calvin, 00:29:29.829 --> 00:29:40.750 Marty, the pigs, Elise, Rosie, they were all 00:29:40.750 --> 00:29:48.869 an accumulation of losses. And I think I've built 00:29:48.869 --> 00:29:51.410 a shell around me that I can't, like sometimes 00:29:51.410 --> 00:29:54.740 it becomes, but I can't, I don't let it in. And 00:29:54.740 --> 00:29:56.680 it's going to come afterwards. It's going to 00:29:56.680 --> 00:30:01.259 explode once I've said goodbye to the last one, 00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:06.000 which is coming in September. Sometimes it scares 00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:10.400 the heck out of me. I guess this conversation 00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:14.400 is pertinent for many reasons. And the first 00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:23.500 one would be as a way to inform or educate. um 00:30:23.500 --> 00:30:27.180 sanctuary owners out there or people who are 00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:31.680 you know supporting um sanctuaries or want to 00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:36.180 open their own sanctuaries so throughout you 00:30:36.180 --> 00:30:40.819 know this conversation i uh heard you say many 00:30:40.819 --> 00:30:46.319 times um you know my advice would be um and i 00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:49.660 guess for this question i want to know what is 00:30:49.660 --> 00:30:54.490 the the one thing you want people to learn from 00:30:54.490 --> 00:31:04.410 your experience? Well, I'll say it. We need sanctuaries, 00:31:04.589 --> 00:31:09.309 by all means. If people are wanting to have sanctuaries, 00:31:10.349 --> 00:31:13.210 go ahead. You just have to realize that it's 00:31:13.210 --> 00:31:16.789 not a walk in the park. It's really a decision 00:31:16.789 --> 00:31:20.220 that you It's fantastic when you're young, you 00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:22.279 have the energy, you have the strength, you have 00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:26.240 the stamina to carry on, but it also burns you. 00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:35.319 And it's unfortunately, the reality of this environment 00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:38.319 is that it's every day, morning to night, there's 00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:41.980 no holidays, there's no Christmas, there's no 00:31:41.980 --> 00:31:49.079 parties. So you have to be ready to give it all. 00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:53.359 Or to have a team of people that can work together 00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:56.180 and give their all. And then at this point, you 00:31:56.180 --> 00:31:58.460 have a little bit more of life. But it really 00:31:58.460 --> 00:32:01.140 is, as much as you give that your life to them, 00:32:01.539 --> 00:32:05.240 it's something that I want. It's something that 00:32:05.240 --> 00:32:07.720 a lot of people want to. You just have to be 00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:12.119 realistic that it's going to bring you. And I 00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:16.059 hear the same thing from all. sanctuary, refuge, 00:32:16.420 --> 00:32:19.740 shelters, owners, that they're burned, they're 00:32:19.740 --> 00:32:25.339 fatigued. And I'm 68, so I'm not at my youngest 00:32:25.339 --> 00:32:31.779 age to carry on. But I would say just be realistic 00:32:31.779 --> 00:32:34.779 that you're going to have to invest yourself 00:32:34.779 --> 00:32:39.279 and you have to invest, so I have to invest money 00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:46.630 at the same time. These are the real facts. You 00:32:46.630 --> 00:32:50.529 can do it, but it's not for everybody. You have 00:32:50.529 --> 00:32:53.170 to be dedicated yourself, to be ready to dedicate 00:32:53.170 --> 00:33:00.210 yourself. And it's a very strong. Maybe it's 00:33:00.210 --> 00:33:02.009 something that people don't see. It's fun to 00:33:02.009 --> 00:33:04.589 be with animals. It's fun. It's lovely. It's 00:33:04.589 --> 00:33:10.740 beautiful. But it's a lot of you as well. You 00:33:10.740 --> 00:33:14.799 are still young, Catherine. I want you to see, 00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:18.420 you know, doing conferences all around, you know, 00:33:18.579 --> 00:33:22.920 talking to vegans, sharing your experience and 00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:26.680 all the insights you have gained from this. I 00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:30.579 mean, opening a sanctuary in the hostile environment 00:33:30.579 --> 00:33:35.539 of Quebec and running it with all the challenges. 00:33:36.059 --> 00:33:40.029 You know, I went in preparation for this. conversation, 00:33:40.049 --> 00:33:44.910 I went and looked at the Google ratings, the 00:33:44.910 --> 00:33:49.130 sanctuary had, and, you know, there are dozens 00:33:49.130 --> 00:33:52.650 of them, and every one of them is a five star 00:33:52.650 --> 00:33:57.990 review. I mean, this, you run an amazing sanctuary 00:33:57.990 --> 00:34:03.049 that, you know, it's unseen, you know, that unity 00:34:03.049 --> 00:34:07.690 in recognizing the greatness of that sanctuary. 00:34:08.539 --> 00:34:13.159 Once you made the decision and started the process 00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:19.960 of transitioning the animals, did you feel any 00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:25.579 regrets at all? Did you reflect back to that 00:34:25.579 --> 00:34:30.539 time you came across that book about farm sanctuaries? 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:35.099 And did you think maybe I should have made another 00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:39.230 choice? and never open an animal sanctuary. Did 00:34:39.230 --> 00:34:41.909 you have any kind of regrets about, you know, 00:34:42.010 --> 00:34:46.269 the way you manage the sanctuary or even about, 00:34:46.269 --> 00:34:50.150 you know, opening a sanctuary in the first place? 00:34:52.309 --> 00:34:55.550 I don't have any regrets about opening the sanctuary. 00:34:55.909 --> 00:35:00.690 It was a choice that I made and even nowadays 00:35:00.690 --> 00:35:03.989 I'll say am I doing the right thing knowing that 00:35:03.989 --> 00:35:08.650 I am doing the right thing. for the animals um 00:35:08.650 --> 00:35:16.269 uh is opening and running a sanctuary um i was 00:35:16.269 --> 00:35:18.690 so obsessed with wanting to do it that i don't 00:35:18.690 --> 00:35:21.230 think there was any room for thinking no this 00:35:21.230 --> 00:35:24.989 is not what you should do it was just wanting 00:35:24.989 --> 00:35:33.130 to get there so um i had no regards no uh it 00:35:33.130 --> 00:35:37.059 was my uh my choice and I think I carried it 00:35:37.059 --> 00:35:44.780 to the end. I've been, some people have followed. 00:35:46.179 --> 00:35:50.199 I was selfish in letting it go like that and 00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:55.519 I think it's on the contrary a gesture of love 00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:57.539 that I'm doing for them because I'm breaking 00:35:57.539 --> 00:36:01.280 my own heart in order for them to be looked after 00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:05.989 in the best way possible. So I'm excited about 00:36:05.989 --> 00:36:08.989 what I'm doing. Are you still going to visit 00:36:08.989 --> 00:36:14.210 them in their new home? Yes, afterwards as much 00:36:14.210 --> 00:36:22.010 as possible. I'm planning to go and live with 00:36:22.010 --> 00:36:24.349 my son and grandchildren in South Africa. So 00:36:24.349 --> 00:36:27.070 it might be a little bit far afterwards. But 00:36:27.070 --> 00:36:32.110 for the time being I get, I already have some 00:36:32.110 --> 00:36:34.230 that have been placed and I get news from them 00:36:34.230 --> 00:36:39.030 and pictures and so as much as possible to get 00:36:39.030 --> 00:36:43.090 to see how well I'm doing all so well. It's such 00:36:43.090 --> 00:36:45.449 a relief to see how well they're doing and they're 00:36:45.449 --> 00:36:49.909 being loved and have these places because I chose 00:36:49.909 --> 00:36:56.929 those places and so far it's been good. And when 00:36:56.929 --> 00:37:01.929 we bring the cows on the 18th of September, we'll 00:37:01.929 --> 00:37:05.769 bring them to their new sanctuary. I will be 00:37:05.769 --> 00:37:08.349 going with them. I will ride with the truck and 00:37:08.349 --> 00:37:13.409 spend a week there and make sure that they enjoy 00:37:13.409 --> 00:37:17.050 their, to get used to the new place. It's going 00:37:17.050 --> 00:37:21.030 to be hard leaving, but I know that it's coming. 00:37:23.150 --> 00:37:26.099 And what about the future of Quebec? Now that 00:37:26.099 --> 00:37:32.519 you're gone, where are the animals going to find 00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:39.099 safe heaven in this province? What are your thoughts 00:37:39.099 --> 00:37:45.340 on the future of Quebec? Well, there's a lot 00:37:45.340 --> 00:37:48.840 of people that say, I've always wanted to open 00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:51.659 a sanctuary. I want to open a sanctuary. and 00:37:51.659 --> 00:37:54.960 I have the numbers that I'm going to give are 00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:58.380 completely out of my own own calculation which 00:37:58.380 --> 00:38:01.400 has nothing to do with reality probably but in 00:38:01.400 --> 00:38:04.900 so many wanting to it's like in everything in 00:38:04.900 --> 00:38:08.880 life there might be one two three people that 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:11.940 would actually be able to do it so I'm hoping 00:38:11.940 --> 00:38:14.139 that it was it is going to happen that there 00:38:14.139 --> 00:38:20.639 is going to be a couple a family that will want 00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:22.760 to invest their time and their lives with the 00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:29.440 animals. To make a dance, you would have to have 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:36.840 about a thousand centuries. So what I understood 00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:40.500 myself after I opened and I was living with these 00:38:40.500 --> 00:38:43.420 animals was that they had a story to tell. They 00:38:43.420 --> 00:38:46.519 had their story to tell. And that's when the 00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:49.639 educational side of the sanctuary became very 00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:55.420 evident, very important. And if I saved 70, 75, 00:38:56.019 --> 00:39:03.579 100 animals in the end, by doing, by being an 00:39:03.579 --> 00:39:08.000 educational place where we could teach people, 00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:12.260 that's what I was telling myself, that the education 00:39:12.260 --> 00:39:15.659 would probably save more than just a simple 75 00:39:15.659 --> 00:39:20.119 that I had here with me. So the education, education 00:39:20.119 --> 00:39:26.380 is very essential. So if we have another one, 00:39:26.380 --> 00:39:29.699 two, three centuries that teach that show that 00:39:29.699 --> 00:39:33.840 educate, then I'll be great because then we multiply 00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:37.820 the effect of the of saving a few, we tell the 00:39:37.820 --> 00:39:40.039 stories, we tell the stories behind the doors, 00:39:40.659 --> 00:39:50.230 stories of the industries. In the recent years 00:39:50.230 --> 00:39:55.969 many cities across Quebec legalized having backyard 00:39:55.969 --> 00:40:05.250 chickens Did you feel like this was A terrible 00:40:05.250 --> 00:40:10.010 decision from them because I bet you know it 00:40:10.010 --> 00:40:15.579 increased the the number of people wanting to, 00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:19.619 the number of chickens and roosters that are 00:40:19.619 --> 00:40:26.219 abandoned and need a home. I was furious because 00:40:26.219 --> 00:40:31.820 I thought it was another way and that came from 00:40:31.820 --> 00:40:33.920 the government's encouragement to say, yeah, 00:40:33.980 --> 00:40:36.679 get a couple of chicken to get you busy and I'll 00:40:36.679 --> 00:40:43.150 get that drink over. And Knowing how people are, 00:40:43.269 --> 00:40:45.769 they're fun. It's interesting for the first couple 00:40:45.769 --> 00:40:48.750 of, whatever, weeks, months. And then what do 00:40:48.750 --> 00:40:50.769 you do with them in the winter? What do you do 00:40:50.769 --> 00:40:52.530 with them on the long -term? Oh, we don't lay 00:40:52.530 --> 00:40:55.530 eggs anymore. What do we do with them? We bring 00:40:55.530 --> 00:40:57.710 them to the sanctuary. We leave them in the street. 00:40:58.730 --> 00:41:01.969 I thought it was solely responsible to encourage 00:41:01.969 --> 00:41:10.269 people to have small chicken coops in their backyard. 00:41:11.220 --> 00:41:16.239 because it was just having like a toy to play 00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:19.900 with and it wasn't on turn and it happened. We 00:41:19.900 --> 00:41:23.079 had tons and tons of requests to take in hands. 00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:28.480 And roosters are another problem. Roosters are 00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:32.139 not allowed by most municipalities. They can't, 00:41:32.380 --> 00:41:35.349 people that have a chicken coop, could have a 00:41:35.349 --> 00:41:38.090 rooster to go with the hens. They're great protectors. 00:41:39.650 --> 00:41:43.090 The hens love to have a protector with them. 00:41:44.230 --> 00:41:46.170 But then a lot of people are not allowed, so 00:41:46.170 --> 00:41:53.210 that's another point against roosters. People 00:41:53.210 --> 00:41:55.349 think they're aggressive. They're not aggressive. 00:41:55.710 --> 00:42:00.010 They actually want to be held and people don't 00:42:00.010 --> 00:42:06.780 believe them. have a big problem on their hands. 00:42:07.139 --> 00:42:10.480 Actually, I'll tell you a story about it happened 00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:17.119 this week. I got fooled. I'm sorry to say. I 00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:20.320 had a young man calling me that he had a hand 00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:24.159 in his apartment and he had to place her because 00:42:24.159 --> 00:42:27.920 the owner was going to throw him out in the street. 00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:34.849 So long story. I was supposed to bring her in 00:42:34.849 --> 00:42:37.409 the afternoon. We ended up bringing her at 10 00:42:37.409 --> 00:42:40.329 o 'clock in the evening. And I usually go to 00:42:40.329 --> 00:42:42.429 bed at 8 .30. So by 10 o 'clock, I was really 00:42:42.429 --> 00:42:46.469 tired. I placed her in one of her chicken coop 00:42:46.469 --> 00:42:57.309 that we have. And I didn't really look at her. 00:42:58.530 --> 00:43:02.920 She looked a little bit different. And it's only 00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:06.119 in the morning that I looked at her and realized 00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:09.719 it wasn't a her, it's a him. So I now have, after 00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:12.940 having placed everybody, all my roosters, everybody, 00:43:13.659 --> 00:43:17.519 I now have another rooster to place. And I can't 00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:21.019 believe I got taken in because he knew it was 00:43:21.019 --> 00:43:23.139 a rooster. I'm sure he got kicked. He was going 00:43:23.139 --> 00:43:26.739 to get kicked out because that rooster does this 00:43:26.739 --> 00:43:33.980 every morning. and not just morning. So I have 00:43:33.980 --> 00:43:39.860 another rooster to place. Yeah, it's a tough 00:43:39.860 --> 00:43:42.519 one, you know, to be able to distinguish roosters 00:43:42.519 --> 00:43:48.920 from hands more difficult. Oh, yeah, when they're 00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:53.940 younger. Absolutely. One last question for you, 00:43:54.099 --> 00:43:58.960 Catherine, you mentioned how I think before we 00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:02.119 started recording this conversation that the 00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:08.320 supporters and volunteers of your sanctuary were 00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:18.940 kind of sad that you were closing down. So what 00:44:18.940 --> 00:44:22.679 was the reaction of the volunteers, the long 00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:25.760 -term volunteers, the supporters, the donors? 00:44:26.539 --> 00:44:34.079 What did you get in terms of reaction? Well, 00:44:34.139 --> 00:44:38.260 I first want to say that I expected a lot more 00:44:38.260 --> 00:44:43.820 backlash from the public and I was surprised, 00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:48.719 so happily surprised. There was a flow, it was 00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:52.880 a wave of love, of understanding, of encouragement. 00:44:53.619 --> 00:44:58.429 It was fantastic. And with the volunteers, it 00:44:58.429 --> 00:45:02.170 was the same. I mean, we've been part of the 00:45:02.170 --> 00:45:06.530 family for a long time. But a lot of sadness, 00:45:06.909 --> 00:45:09.829 they understood because at the first step, we 00:45:09.829 --> 00:45:11.889 understand the amount of work that requires, 00:45:11.889 --> 00:45:15.449 the amount of dedication on their part because 00:45:15.449 --> 00:45:20.349 we count on our volunteers to function. And at 00:45:20.349 --> 00:45:24.900 the same time, a big understanding. I mean, one 00:45:24.900 --> 00:45:28.139 of our volunteers said she offered to clean one 00:45:28.139 --> 00:45:30.840 of the barns because there's a lot less work. 00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:33.500 But she said, I can clean up the whole barn from 00:45:33.500 --> 00:45:36.659 up here. And she said she stood at an empty barn 00:45:36.659 --> 00:45:41.280 and cried her eyes out for, I don't know how 00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:46.119 long. And it's the type of feelings, the type 00:45:46.119 --> 00:45:51.320 of connections that we have with our animals. 00:45:53.550 --> 00:45:59.769 There are children, literally they have personalities, 00:46:02.469 --> 00:46:06.369 they have attachment with each other, with other 00:46:06.369 --> 00:46:10.369 species. I mean, lately, the cows have been acting 00:46:10.369 --> 00:46:13.949 like, not weird in a bad way, but like you can 00:46:13.949 --> 00:46:17.000 see their... It's either the silence, or it's 00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:21.559 either the lack of movement. It's become so quiet, 00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:24.579 and they look around, and they look at me, and 00:46:24.579 --> 00:46:29.739 you can feel what's going on. So I think even 00:46:29.739 --> 00:46:33.820 they feel that something has changed, and the 00:46:33.820 --> 00:46:35.639 connection that they had with the other animals 00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:38.320 has changed. I mean, it's not there anymore. 00:46:39.079 --> 00:46:44.079 And they're very aware of everything. I mean, 00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:47.860 the volunteers, the animals, are all feeling 00:46:47.860 --> 00:46:51.099 the impact of it. But for the volunteers, it's 00:46:51.099 --> 00:46:55.599 been hard. It's been hard. Like some of them 00:46:55.599 --> 00:46:57.880 say we come and it's empty. It's too silent. 00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:06.719 It's too... And yes, it's true. It is. Thank 00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:10.849 you so much, Katrin, for your answers. Did you 00:47:10.849 --> 00:47:13.969 want to add something before we stop the recording? 00:47:16.750 --> 00:47:21.289 I would say we have to keep on going forward. 00:47:21.809 --> 00:47:29.150 We can't let go. There's lots of the younger 00:47:29.150 --> 00:47:31.849 generation can go ahead. The older generation 00:47:31.849 --> 00:47:36.489 can help. But there's so much room, so much need 00:47:36.489 --> 00:47:40.880 to have sanctuaries for farm animals. We can't 00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:44.340 let go of them. Farm animals are really true. 00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:48.340 You hear it from me. I have a farm animal sanctuary, 00:47:48.500 --> 00:47:53.480 but they are like our other pets. They are like 00:47:53.480 --> 00:47:58.019 human beings. They have feelings. They're smart. 00:47:58.460 --> 00:48:07.889 They have memories. They're funny. They're so 00:48:07.889 --> 00:48:10.210 full of love, and we have so much love to give 00:48:10.210 --> 00:48:12.969 them that we have to keep on fighting for them. 00:48:13.210 --> 00:48:17.170 We can't just let the industries continue to 00:48:17.170 --> 00:48:20.969 do what they do. In this day and age, we're no 00:48:20.969 --> 00:48:25.210 longer at the time of the cavemen that had to 00:48:25.210 --> 00:48:28.489 go hunting, although most cavemen didn't have 00:48:28.489 --> 00:48:31.969 to eat meat. They ate a lot of other things. 00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:36.599 But in this day and age on this planet, there's 00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:39.500 just so many humans and we have to do something. 00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:41.559 We can't just carry on. That's the way we've 00:48:41.559 --> 00:48:45.119 always done it. We're killing the planet and 00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:50.059 we can't just sustain feeding all those millions 00:48:50.059 --> 00:48:52.619 of people just by eating animals. We have to 00:48:52.619 --> 00:48:57.440 go through a more sustainable way of producing 00:48:57.440 --> 00:49:03.050 to feed the planet and to stop to stop the abuse, 00:49:03.369 --> 00:49:06.690 to stop the hurting them, to stop them. So yes, 00:49:06.949 --> 00:49:09.670 the fight must go on from all sides. As I said, 00:49:10.449 --> 00:49:14.070 it's a war on all sides. It's not just a war 00:49:14.070 --> 00:49:20.369 in the sanctuaries, but it's a war on all sides 00:49:20.369 --> 00:49:23.389 where we have to keep on telling the truth. We 00:49:23.389 --> 00:49:29.809 have to keep on, I don't want to say, forcing 00:49:29.809 --> 00:49:34.849 people to wake up. People have a blindfold. The 00:49:34.849 --> 00:49:37.550 industries and the governments have done a wonderful 00:49:37.550 --> 00:49:39.989 job at hiding the truth, and we have to take 00:49:39.989 --> 00:49:43.329 off that blindfold. I had that blindfold on for 00:49:43.329 --> 00:49:51.289 years, but we can't. We have to go forward. But 00:49:51.289 --> 00:49:54.829 you also decided, and again, as you described, 00:49:55.010 --> 00:49:58.190 you love those animals, and it is out of love 00:49:58.190 --> 00:50:02.300 that you decided to you know, take a few step 00:50:02.300 --> 00:50:07.039 backs and choose another way of helping animals. 00:50:09.239 --> 00:50:14.119 And it takes lots of courage to do so. It takes 00:50:14.119 --> 00:50:17.219 lots of wisdom and courage to do so. I think 00:50:17.219 --> 00:50:24.960 so many activists are married to their activism, 00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:28.019 married to their method of activism, to their 00:50:28.019 --> 00:50:31.119 organization, to their sanctuary. And they're 00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:35.480 too attached. They're not thinking about the 00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:40.760 long term. They're thinking just about the short 00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:46.260 term, emergency after emergency. And when you 00:50:46.260 --> 00:50:48.539 mentioned, you know, the future and where do 00:50:48.539 --> 00:50:51.679 you want to lead this organization or this initiative? 00:50:52.460 --> 00:50:56.920 there is no plan there is no plan and which is 00:50:56.920 --> 00:51:02.260 foolish and also dangerous for the animals that 00:51:02.260 --> 00:51:06.539 are under their care i feel like but again you 00:51:06.539 --> 00:51:12.219 can't blame them it's you know they're possessed 00:51:12.219 --> 00:51:18.710 by that passion and they can't let it go Do you 00:51:18.710 --> 00:51:21.449 have a message for them? Because, you know, all 00:51:21.449 --> 00:51:25.730 throughout this conversation, I kept thinking 00:51:25.730 --> 00:51:30.429 about different sanctuary owners, I know, who 00:51:30.429 --> 00:51:37.570 are just overworked and burned out. Do you have 00:51:37.570 --> 00:51:44.690 a message for them? Well, because I've spoken, 00:51:45.050 --> 00:51:51.579 talked to a few from other provinces, and we 00:51:51.579 --> 00:51:56.860 all feel the same. We all felt overworked. And 00:51:56.860 --> 00:52:04.019 each person puts their life and their health. 00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:07.639 So it's wonderful if they can carry out, but 00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:12.340 eventually, unless they have a plan to move on 00:52:12.340 --> 00:52:14.860 with either children or other people. what's 00:52:14.860 --> 00:52:16.420 going to happen when they reach a time where, 00:52:16.500 --> 00:52:20.519 whether it's health or older age, I'm not going 00:52:20.519 --> 00:52:24.699 to say old age, that puts a stop to the carrying 00:52:24.699 --> 00:52:30.360 on. So they have to have a future. Everybody 00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:33.920 has to think of what's next. During what we're 00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:35.840 doing, we don't even have time to think about 00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:41.809 it. We have to carry on. We have to have a plan 00:52:41.809 --> 00:52:45.849 in action, a plan to what's going to happen next, 00:52:46.329 --> 00:52:49.929 because we can't just stop. It has to continue. 00:52:50.670 --> 00:52:54.429 We have to have more younger people to get into 00:52:54.429 --> 00:53:00.190 it. It's not for everybody. You have to have 00:53:00.190 --> 00:53:03.570 a strong back, physically and mentally, both 00:53:03.570 --> 00:53:08.079 of them. I would tell them. As I know, I don't 00:53:08.079 --> 00:53:12.039 give up. I feel for you and I know what you're 00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:14.940 going through. And thank you for being there. 00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:19.219 That's a wonderful message and great parting 00:53:19.219 --> 00:53:22.400 words. Thank you so much, Katrin. Thank you so 00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:24.480 much for all the great work you've done with 00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:29.980 SAFE. Thank you for showing a model of how to 00:53:29.980 --> 00:53:34.489 responsibly take care of animals. and thank you 00:53:34.489 --> 00:53:37.150 for having taken the time to answer my questions. 00:53:37.389 --> 00:53:42.090 I truly appreciate it. My pleasure. I probably 00:53:42.090 --> 00:53:46.170 will find something to do and carry on the stories 00:53:46.170 --> 00:53:50.590 because I don't know how to sit and put on my 00:53:50.590 --> 00:53:55.750 phone. Thank you everyone for listening. I kindly 00:53:55.750 --> 00:53:58.449 invite you to share this podcast with the vegans 00:53:58.449 --> 00:54:01.690 you know. Let's encourage more people to take 00:54:01.690 --> 00:54:04.889 action. Again, thank you so much for caring, 00:54:05.269 --> 00:54:08.389 and I will see you next Tuesday for a new episode.