WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.700 Welcome to The Vegan Report. My name is Ryan 00:00:02.700 --> 00:00:06.040 and today an exclusive window into a high stakes 00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:09.240 world at the heart of the animal rights movement. 00:00:09.939 --> 00:00:13.119 Hear from the fundraisers, driving the dollars 00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:17.379 that fuel the fight for animals. Those conversations 00:00:17.379 --> 00:00:21.140 are very common among professional animal advocates, 00:00:21.820 --> 00:00:25.980 yet always behind closed doors. That is, until 00:00:25.980 --> 00:00:29.780 now. To discuss this topic, I have with me Alice 00:00:29.780 --> 00:00:33.219 Mueller -Coleman, Development Manager for Balanced, 00:00:33.740 --> 00:00:37.380 and Liz Wheeler, Philanthropy Managers for Philanlytics. 00:00:37.899 --> 00:00:40.880 Among other things, we talked about the dangers 00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:45.439 of toxic work environments. What power do funders 00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:50.399 hold over animal organizations? And why are sanctuaries 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:54.170 the ugly duckling of fundraising? Balance and 00:00:54.170 --> 00:00:57.729 Phoneletics are two amazing organizations that 00:00:57.729 --> 00:01:01.130 deserve your support. Visit the episode notes 00:01:01.130 --> 00:01:05.450 to connect with them. Lastly, don't forget to 00:01:05.450 --> 00:01:08.849 show some love for this podcast. Follow the show, 00:01:08.930 --> 00:01:11.950 share this episode, leave a five -star review. 00:01:12.390 --> 00:01:18.230 Every gesture of support counts. Thank you. Liz, 00:01:18.489 --> 00:01:21.129 Alice, welcome to the show. Thank you so much 00:01:21.129 --> 00:01:25.980 for being here. Um, I guess to get us started, 00:01:26.379 --> 00:01:31.079 uh, an icebreaker question, maybe, uh, one of 00:01:31.079 --> 00:01:34.500 my favorite question to ask is who is your vegan 00:01:34.500 --> 00:01:37.760 hero and why? Alice, do you have somebody on 00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:40.799 the top of your head? No, and I'm embarrassed 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:48.400 to say it. I do. So I'll go. So, I mean, for 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:52.480 some folks who know me, I'm Canadian. I don't 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:54.739 say A that much, so hopefully it won't catch 00:01:54.739 --> 00:01:57.159 me up in the podcast, but it might start coming 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:01.239 out a little twangy. My vegan hero is Camille 00:02:01.239 --> 00:02:04.040 Labchuk. So she's the executive director of an 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:06.459 organization called Animal Justice here in Canada. 00:02:06.989 --> 00:02:12.569 and a huge reason why I went vegan. My journey 00:02:12.569 --> 00:02:15.210 in veganism, I was vegetarian for like 12 years. 00:02:15.210 --> 00:02:17.449 And it really wasn't until I started listening 00:02:17.449 --> 00:02:20.090 to the Animal Justice podcast that she was hosting, 00:02:20.449 --> 00:02:24.229 where I started to learn more about the inherent 00:02:24.229 --> 00:02:28.889 cruelty of the systems of dairy and eggs. And 00:02:28.889 --> 00:02:31.090 so yeah, she she's definitely one of the driving 00:02:31.090 --> 00:02:34.849 forces behind the trajectory of my life now. 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:38.960 Wonderful. That is so beautiful. Fellow Canadian. 00:02:39.860 --> 00:02:43.120 I love that. My husband's actually in Vancouver 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:46.960 right now, so he's there championing your team 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:51.060 as well. I can't choose one person. I think when 00:02:51.060 --> 00:02:54.659 you've worked in this field long enough, I know 00:02:54.659 --> 00:02:59.039 thousands of really wonderful humans, some more 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:04.580 than others, and I feel like I love so many people 00:03:04.580 --> 00:03:07.280 in different ways. I, you know, on top of mine, 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:10.560 I'm thinking like, Chef Tara Panzone from Pura 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:13.939 Vida. She's like bringing her culinary experience 00:03:13.939 --> 00:03:17.460 and making her grandma's dishes yet veganized. 00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:21.879 And I'm thinking about Matcha, who sells like 00:03:21.879 --> 00:03:24.439 French pastries at the farmers markets. And I'm 00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:26.439 thinking of Jean Bauer. And I'm thinking of our 00:03:26.439 --> 00:03:28.740 executive director, Audrey Lawson Sanchez. And 00:03:28.740 --> 00:03:35.069 I can't choose one. I just can't. It's also a 00:03:35.069 --> 00:03:39.050 good answer. So both of you are fundraising for 00:03:39.050 --> 00:03:42.250 different organizations. I would love if you 00:03:42.250 --> 00:03:46.250 could tell us a bit more about analytics and 00:03:46.250 --> 00:03:50.979 also balance. Yeah, I mean, so Faunalytics, I'm 00:03:50.979 --> 00:03:52.919 new -ish to the team. I've been with them for 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:55.259 about three and a half years, which I consider 00:03:55.259 --> 00:03:58.819 new for like the 25 -year history that the organization 00:03:58.819 --> 00:04:01.759 has. We're an organization that conducts and 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:03.759 shares research and data for animal advocates. 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:07.560 So we have three key programs. One is our original 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:12.219 research. So we will conduct studies, meta -analysis. 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:17.420 and reports that help fill gaps in animal advocates' 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:21.560 knowledge. It can be anything from what is effective 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:25.259 tactics and messaging to more niche areas. We 00:04:25.259 --> 00:04:27.920 did a study with, mentioning Gene Bauer -Alice, 00:04:28.060 --> 00:04:31.680 we did a study with Farm Sanctuary in 2021 that 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:35.699 looked at a sanctuary tours effectiveness. We 00:04:35.699 --> 00:04:39.560 also have a research library. So there are over 00:04:39.560 --> 00:04:43.100 6 ,000 research study summaries, infographics, 00:04:43.459 --> 00:04:47.370 blog posts, and that's all free access for anybody 00:04:47.370 --> 00:04:49.829 who wants to go online and is looking for any 00:04:49.829 --> 00:04:51.910 kind of information. You can sort it by region. 00:04:52.310 --> 00:04:54.290 You can sort it by keywords. You can actually 00:04:54.290 --> 00:04:57.370 sort by species if you want, by tag. So if you're 00:04:57.370 --> 00:04:59.370 looking for fundraising, there's a bunch of fundraising 00:04:59.370 --> 00:05:02.910 articles on there too. And then third is our 00:05:02.910 --> 00:05:04.790 research support program. So that's where we 00:05:04.790 --> 00:05:07.250 help advocates actually take that research that 00:05:07.250 --> 00:05:09.129 they've just learned and how to actually put 00:05:09.129 --> 00:05:12.649 it into practice. So any individual advocates 00:05:12.649 --> 00:05:15.189 or organizations can come to us and and ask questions 00:05:15.189 --> 00:05:17.689 about how to apply that researcher data and or 00:05:17.689 --> 00:05:20.110 also like how to conduct a really effective survey. 00:05:20.269 --> 00:05:23.129 We do that too. So that's about Phonilytics. 00:05:23.670 --> 00:05:27.449 Wonderful. And I recently covered one of your 00:05:27.449 --> 00:05:31.350 study with one of your affiliated researcher 00:05:31.350 --> 00:05:35.569 Bjorn are protest helping animals or hurting 00:05:35.569 --> 00:05:38.550 them, something like that. So go check this episode. 00:05:38.810 --> 00:05:41.949 It's truly interesting. What about you, Alice? 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:45.300 Yeah, so I'm the development manager over at 00:05:45.300 --> 00:05:50.420 Balanced and Balanced was started in 2017 by 00:05:50.420 --> 00:05:52.220 Audrey Lawson Sanchez, as I mentioned before. 00:05:52.319 --> 00:05:55.500 She's a mother and former educator, and she recognized 00:05:55.500 --> 00:05:57.699 that something needed to be done about school 00:05:57.699 --> 00:06:01.639 food. And so we are a public health and nutrition 00:06:01.639 --> 00:06:05.220 security advocacy organization that works on 00:06:05.220 --> 00:06:08.100 institutional diet change, primarily in K through 00:06:08.100 --> 00:06:12.800 12 schools. One thing I didn't know is 75 % of 00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:16.350 all K through 12 schools are self -op, so there's 00:06:16.350 --> 00:06:18.810 a need for a lot of hands -on support. And so 00:06:18.810 --> 00:06:22.189 we do that in our various programmatic areas. 00:06:22.310 --> 00:06:27.310 One is community -led advocacy. providing resources 00:06:27.310 --> 00:06:29.269 and assistance to the community members that 00:06:29.269 --> 00:06:32.990 want to see change where they eat. Second is 00:06:32.990 --> 00:06:35.610 institutional support. They're the ones that 00:06:35.610 --> 00:06:38.589 are really working side by side with the food 00:06:38.589 --> 00:06:41.970 service teams and doing a lot of exciting things 00:06:41.970 --> 00:06:44.269 through our plant -based cohort, which is a six 00:06:44.269 --> 00:06:46.629 month program, really getting into the nitty 00:06:46.629 --> 00:06:49.589 gritty. And then we have a nutrition research 00:06:49.589 --> 00:06:55.560 and policy team as well. So our Our team is working 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:58.740 on a data analysis project right now, which is 00:06:58.740 --> 00:07:02.720 looking to find the fiber content of school meals. 00:07:03.579 --> 00:07:07.360 That's also great work. Please connect with Pheneletics 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:12.920 Unbalanced. Link in the episode notes. Okay. 00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:18.860 Fundraising. I feel like this is one of the topics 00:07:18.860 --> 00:07:23.269 that goes really like under the radar of most 00:07:23.269 --> 00:07:25.970 people, like they don't think about fundraising, 00:07:26.149 --> 00:07:28.689 they don't think about the fundraisers. We're 00:07:28.689 --> 00:07:33.230 like this, you know, truly part of the behind 00:07:33.230 --> 00:07:37.649 the scenes team. So let me start with this. How 00:07:37.649 --> 00:07:41.329 did you become a fundraiser? How did you fall 00:07:41.329 --> 00:07:46.670 into this, this job? Maybe you Liz? Gosh, yeah. 00:07:46.769 --> 00:07:50.430 Okay, I'm very, very lucky. I started my career 00:07:50.430 --> 00:07:54.129 with animals about 15 years ago, I started working. 00:07:54.790 --> 00:07:56.470 Well, I was volunteering actually at my local 00:07:56.470 --> 00:07:59.490 Humane Society. And through volunteering there, 00:07:59.490 --> 00:08:04.089 I was able to get a job in their foster department, 00:08:04.110 --> 00:08:06.569 which is actually like more animal care. It's 00:08:06.569 --> 00:08:08.310 working with the animals doing things like subcu 00:08:08.310 --> 00:08:13.579 fluids and vaccines and very hands on. But To 00:08:13.579 --> 00:08:16.459 my luck, the Humane Society is actually a unionized 00:08:16.459 --> 00:08:18.319 environment and it was a contract position. So 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:21.639 in order to stay in with the organization, I 00:08:21.639 --> 00:08:23.660 had to apply for whatever jobs would come up 00:08:23.660 --> 00:08:25.819 and there was one in the development department. 00:08:26.899 --> 00:08:30.699 So I got really, really lucky in that way that 00:08:30.699 --> 00:08:33.360 things just kind of aligned. And so I took a 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:34.570 job in the development department. department 00:08:34.570 --> 00:08:37.049 just entering donations because I inevitably 00:08:37.049 --> 00:08:39.090 wanted to go back to the foster department, but 00:08:39.090 --> 00:08:41.190 then I ended up falling in love with the fundraising. 00:08:42.049 --> 00:08:45.350 So started there and then started working at 00:08:45.350 --> 00:08:48.070 an organization formerly known as the Canadian 00:08:48.070 --> 00:08:51.370 Federation of Humane Societies, now known as 00:08:51.370 --> 00:08:54.429 Humane Canada, and then eventually made my way 00:08:54.429 --> 00:08:56.809 to Phonolitics today. But yeah, I've been working 00:08:56.809 --> 00:08:58.710 on fundraising for like 10 years. It just feels 00:08:58.710 --> 00:09:01.029 like what I've done my whole life. I know 10 00:09:01.029 --> 00:09:03.269 years is like nothing in comparison to a lot 00:09:03.269 --> 00:09:07.059 of seasoned fundraisers. But yeah, unfortunately, 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:09.399 my journey is not very exciting. I kind of had 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:11.259 it easy because I just got a job with the Humane 00:09:11.259 --> 00:09:13.039 Society. And then they were like, do you want 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:14.860 to enter in donations? And I was like, yeah. 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:18.840 But that's an interesting reaction to fundraising, 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:22.519 because when I talk about fundraising to people, 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:26.679 I see, you know, in their eyes, fear, I see boredom, 00:09:26.860 --> 00:09:30.940 I see, you know, a mix of emotions that you know, 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:34.139 fall far away from the spectrum of falling in 00:09:34.139 --> 00:09:39.559 love. So I guess quick follow up question, what 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:43.080 made you fall in love? I think it's just like 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:46.559 the idea that I could do one of the things that 00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:48.639 I'm most passionate about, which is really like, 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:50.740 at the end of the day, I see fundraising is connecting 00:09:50.740 --> 00:09:54.139 people who love animals with animals. And so 00:09:54.139 --> 00:09:57.049 that can come in. Like such a variety of different 00:09:57.049 --> 00:09:59.429 ways when you're fundraising and it's definitely 00:09:59.429 --> 00:10:02.149 not a boring job. I think once people like get 00:10:02.149 --> 00:10:05.490 into the day to day of it, people from my experience 00:10:05.490 --> 00:10:07.669 are like wary of it because of the whole idea 00:10:07.669 --> 00:10:11.120 of having to ask for money but I think a lot 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:13.100 of fundraisers who get into it realize it's really 00:10:13.100 --> 00:10:15.159 not about that. It's about building relationships. 00:10:15.639 --> 00:10:18.679 And I'm a very social person. I'd love to connect 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:20.899 with people. I'm also very nosy. So I just like 00:10:20.899 --> 00:10:22.860 to know more about people and like what they 00:10:22.860 --> 00:10:24.679 have going on and like what their hobbies and 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:28.279 interests are. So it's a really good mix for 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:32.360 my personality type. Yeah, I hope that answered 00:10:32.360 --> 00:10:36.159 it. Those are indeed fitting qualities for the 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:40.190 fundraising profession. Okay, Alice, what about 00:10:40.190 --> 00:10:42.549 you? What was your journey into fundraising? 00:10:44.070 --> 00:10:46.190 Totally, I was thinking about it before the call 00:10:46.190 --> 00:10:49.710 a little bit. And I just kind of had a flashback 00:10:49.710 --> 00:10:54.110 of being a kid and doing door to door lemonade 00:10:54.110 --> 00:10:56.629 sales. I wasn't even going to like have a table. 00:10:56.850 --> 00:10:59.980 I just went door to door. And then I started 00:10:59.980 --> 00:11:02.539 a little dog -walking business when I was 12. 00:11:02.860 --> 00:11:05.620 And I remember I came home from my freshman year 00:11:05.620 --> 00:11:08.179 of college and my dad said, you need to get a 00:11:08.179 --> 00:11:13.019 job. So I went on Craigslist and called Greenpeace, 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:15.379 got an interview for the next day, and I started 00:11:15.379 --> 00:11:18.779 canvassing on and off for multiple years. And 00:11:18.779 --> 00:11:22.220 so my start was asking people for their credit 00:11:22.220 --> 00:11:25.720 card information on the sidewalk. And, you know, 00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:27.720 if you can do that, you can kind of do anything. 00:11:27.899 --> 00:11:29.519 It's perfect for college kids. I feel like it 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:32.559 really gets you out of your comfort zone, and 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:35.039 you have to navigate a lot of real -time responses. 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:37.460 And then the way that I've found myself into 00:11:37.460 --> 00:11:43.820 the animal rights space is I started as Milo 00:11:43.820 --> 00:11:46.759 Runkle's executive assistant at Mercy for Animals. 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:51.679 I remember I participated in putting together 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:54.059 the staff retreats and each department would 00:11:54.059 --> 00:11:57.299 put on a little skit. And the fundraising team 00:11:57.299 --> 00:12:00.559 just had the best skit. And it's so silly, but 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:02.399 I was just like seeing them up there and they 00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:06.440 were all fun and personable. They were relationship 00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:09.580 builders. They're still some of my good friends 00:12:09.580 --> 00:12:13.980 today. And I think when you think of it from 00:12:13.980 --> 00:12:16.399 a relationship perspective, like you were saying, 00:12:16.940 --> 00:12:19.759 Liz, I mean, you're building relationships and 00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:23.019 hyping up other people. It's pretty great. You 00:12:23.019 --> 00:12:25.000 know, it's a harder thing to do to sell yourself. 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:26.759 You're selling people who are doing great things 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:29.179 and you believe in what their work is. Like, 00:12:29.899 --> 00:12:32.480 I don't know, I feel very lucky to have landed 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:35.500 in and feel very lucky to have landed at Balanced 00:12:35.500 --> 00:12:39.419 in particular. What a rough start. Like this 00:12:39.419 --> 00:12:43.519 is one of the worst jobs out there having to 00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:49.100 ask people for money, like in the streets. Did 00:12:49.100 --> 00:12:52.659 you have any coping mechanism? What was the feeling 00:12:52.659 --> 00:12:55.519 like at the end of the day? Did you need a drink? 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:01.039 I mean, I was 18, so sheer ignorance, I think. 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:02.899 I was just like, oh, this is what it means to 00:13:02.899 --> 00:13:07.860 work. You know? And the people were fun, too. 00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:09.860 I mean, you're just like, you care about polar 00:13:09.860 --> 00:13:12.759 bears, right? And then you talk about... chimpanzees 00:13:12.759 --> 00:13:15.360 or orangutans or the rainforest and get silly 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:18.559 with it. So yeah, it was a, there was a lot of 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:22.279 weirdness and it was a really good experience. 00:13:24.259 --> 00:13:29.919 Okay. So fundraising is all about, you know, 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:33.820 like Liz said, creating, building those relationships 00:13:33.820 --> 00:13:39.080 and strengthening them. So how do you convince 00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:45.720 someone? of making a donation. How people come 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:51.120 to make a donation to a cause. What's that psychology 00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:55.340 that, you know, brings us to express generosity? 00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:58.500 Alice, do you want to go first? I mean, I think 00:13:58.500 --> 00:14:00.919 it's like, you know, we all have this vision 00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:04.799 of the type of world we want to live in. And 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:09.250 there are going to be things that Me like matter 00:14:09.250 --> 00:14:12.929 more to me or you Ryan or you Liz or to the random 00:14:12.929 --> 00:14:16.210 person down the street and It you know, we all 00:14:16.210 --> 00:14:19.389 have that vision, right? so whether it is a world 00:14:19.389 --> 00:14:21.690 where animals are treated with kindness and compassion 00:14:21.690 --> 00:14:26.669 or People want to make sure that people don't 00:14:26.669 --> 00:14:31.110 go hungry or they want to combat climate change, 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:34.710 or any sort of these avenues. There are things 00:14:34.710 --> 00:14:36.490 that people believe in, and it's an investment 00:14:36.490 --> 00:14:39.210 in the future that you want to see, or direct 00:14:39.210 --> 00:14:41.309 response to things that are happening that have 00:14:41.309 --> 00:14:44.529 a shorter life cycle in many ways. And so I think 00:14:44.529 --> 00:14:48.210 it's just the psychology is you're investing 00:14:48.210 --> 00:14:50.590 in the world that you want to live in. Yeah, 00:14:50.590 --> 00:14:53.090 I love that. I would echo everything that Alice 00:14:53.090 --> 00:14:55.990 just said. I think the approach that I tried 00:14:55.990 --> 00:14:59.480 to take to it is not seeing it as like asking 00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:02.580 something of somebody, but providing them an 00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:04.899 opportunity to fulfill what they want to do already. 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:07.500 So we know people are very, very charitable, 00:15:07.580 --> 00:15:10.720 but a lot of the times when people make a donation 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:13.039 to our organization, they already are involved 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:15.539 in the space. They're already animal advocates, 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:17.679 maybe they've used our services in the past, 00:15:17.860 --> 00:15:19.980 or they know somebody who's benefited from them. 00:15:20.460 --> 00:15:23.200 And so our job is less about convincing people 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:24.940 to donate, like they've already made up their 00:15:24.940 --> 00:15:26.320 mind, they're going to donate somewhere, they 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:28.360 want to support our movement, they want to see 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:32.080 it progress. So it's just trying to communicate 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:34.059 with them how we can help them achieve their 00:15:34.059 --> 00:15:35.980 mission and figure out if we're a good fit for 00:15:35.980 --> 00:15:40.299 them. I know it can take years to like get somebody 00:15:40.299 --> 00:15:42.379 to commit to a gift, but that doesn't mean that 00:15:42.379 --> 00:15:44.940 they're not interested. It just means that you 00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:48.100 haven't figured out the psychology around like 00:15:48.100 --> 00:15:50.200 what, what is their motivation for giving? Like 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:53.039 what legacy do they want to give? Even if it's 00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:55.679 like a $5 monthly donation to me, like when I'm 00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:58.320 donating to organizations, it's because I want 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:01.019 to see like progress in my lifetime. I want to 00:16:01.019 --> 00:16:03.889 see animal cruelty. like slow down, I would love 00:16:03.889 --> 00:16:07.029 to see it end. But you know, that's rose colored 00:16:07.029 --> 00:16:10.450 glasses on but I always just try and treat it 00:16:10.450 --> 00:16:12.909 like we can help people achieve what they want. 00:16:13.669 --> 00:16:17.309 I'm asking this because it feels more and more 00:16:17.309 --> 00:16:23.000 aliens to alien to our societies. you know, to 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:26.440 make a donation without expecting anything in 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:29.639 return. Everything is so transactional nowadays. 00:16:30.139 --> 00:16:34.259 You always expect something in return. So witnessing 00:16:34.259 --> 00:16:38.840 people just donating for the sake of donating 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:47.220 is an intriguing behavior. Yeah, so I was really 00:16:47.220 --> 00:16:50.600 lucky. I got to go to the Association of Fundraising 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:52.700 Professionals conference earlier in the year 00:16:52.700 --> 00:16:55.580 and it was really eye -opening. I mean, we know 00:16:55.580 --> 00:16:58.299 that the animal protection space, I'm just going 00:16:58.299 --> 00:17:00.159 to reference it as animal protection, animal 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:02.299 welfare rights protection all under the same 00:17:02.299 --> 00:17:05.400 umbrella. But like the farmed animal protection 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:09.799 movement specifically is so like we are dealing 00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:13.500 with a very small pot of money compared to like 00:17:13.549 --> 00:17:16.170 charitable giving. There is billions upon hundreds 00:17:16.170 --> 00:17:17.869 of billions of dollars in charitable giving. 00:17:19.390 --> 00:17:21.650 Farmed animal production gets about like 200 00:17:21.650 --> 00:17:24.609 to 250 million of that. So we're already dealing 00:17:24.609 --> 00:17:26.990 with like such a small piece of the pie, but 00:17:26.990 --> 00:17:29.730 we're also lucky in that sense that people who 00:17:29.730 --> 00:17:32.329 are in our movement are so dedicated, are so 00:17:32.329 --> 00:17:35.410 passionate about believing in this cause, that 00:17:35.410 --> 00:17:37.390 it's really just about figuring out like what 00:17:37.390 --> 00:17:39.609 their motivation is. And I bring this back to 00:17:39.609 --> 00:17:42.930 AFP is because i was one of the only people there 00:17:42.930 --> 00:17:45.549 from like an animal protection organization i 00:17:45.549 --> 00:17:47.970 think there were like 10 of us in a sea of 3000 00:17:47.970 --> 00:17:52.529 attendees um but there was one presentation um 00:17:52.529 --> 00:17:55.880 by uh I can't remember the person's name from 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:57.740 giving Tuesday and they were talking about donors 00:17:57.740 --> 00:18:00.440 motivation. It was like they either donate because 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:02.279 of like affinity. So they're connected to the 00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:05.519 organization. They have a history of philanthropy. 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:08.160 So it's like what they're known their families 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:11.680 known to do what is expected of them or they 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:13.980 have connections. So they have somebody who's 00:18:13.980 --> 00:18:15.980 benefited from what you do. That's more like 00:18:15.980 --> 00:18:18.539 applicable in like hospital settings, for example, 00:18:18.819 --> 00:18:22.259 or capacity. They've won the lottery. They have 00:18:22.259 --> 00:18:24.880 sold a business and they have this ability to 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:27.619 give generously so they do it because they can. 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:31.960 So for us, we try and figure out which of those 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:34.440 they kind of fall into because then you can steward 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:38.220 them and kind of guide them and talk to them 00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:41.299 based on what their motivation is. So I found 00:18:41.299 --> 00:18:43.059 that that's been incredibly helpful. But yeah, 00:18:43.059 --> 00:18:44.779 for any fundraisers who are listening to this, 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.920 AFP is incredible. And like there is just so 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:50.900 much information and there's a lot of data driven 00:18:50.900 --> 00:18:55.190 information. Bing, Bing, Bing politics. I'm very 00:18:55.190 --> 00:18:57.170 data driven. So I like to know like, okay, where 00:18:57.170 --> 00:19:00.869 are the numbers? What what's showing this? Yeah, 00:19:00.869 --> 00:19:02.970 I was really lucky a number of years ago, I think 00:19:02.970 --> 00:19:04.569 it was my first year working in development. 00:19:05.130 --> 00:19:08.269 My entire team went to AFP in New Orleans. And 00:19:08.269 --> 00:19:10.950 that was like such a great team building experience 00:19:10.950 --> 00:19:14.509 as well as an opportunity just to like hone skills, 00:19:14.589 --> 00:19:16.630 especially as a newer fundraiser back at that 00:19:16.630 --> 00:19:20.829 time. Yeah, I love AFP. I've been a member for 00:19:20.829 --> 00:19:24.019 years, but I never went to their conferences. 00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:30.720 Okay, so who is that donor? Can you draw a profile 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:36.559 of the typical donor to the animal cause? Do 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:40.920 we have more female donors or male donors? What's 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:45.160 the age range? Is there something about their 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:47.740 personality that makes them more inclined to 00:19:47.740 --> 00:19:52.839 give to the animal cause? Think so. I feel like 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:55.880 Liz is gonna have the data handled no pressure 00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:59.640 Liz but in from like a more emotional stance 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:04.140 on it like I feel like There is a huge range 00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:06.059 you have your effective altruists that want to 00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:07.700 rely on the data and they want to see the number 00:20:07.700 --> 00:20:10.960 of lives that are impacted and they are more 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:13.759 motivated by the hard figures and then you have 00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:17.430 the individuals that want to save the life that 00:20:17.430 --> 00:20:19.609 is in front of them. Those are perhaps people 00:20:19.609 --> 00:20:22.309 who want to fund sanctuaries, who want to, you 00:20:22.309 --> 00:20:25.750 know, foster and adopt animals, focus on TNR 00:20:25.750 --> 00:20:27.650 programs or things that are more maybe companion 00:20:27.650 --> 00:20:31.630 animal or sanctuary related. And then in terms 00:20:31.630 --> 00:20:35.170 of like our donors, I feel like a lot of them 00:20:35.170 --> 00:20:38.369 fall, especially now as we have grown our institutional 00:20:38.369 --> 00:20:41.730 support program, where they want to see the number 00:20:41.730 --> 00:20:46.690 of meals impacted. We talk a lot about fiber. 00:20:47.049 --> 00:20:50.069 Our whole thing is focused on fiber. And how 00:20:50.069 --> 00:20:52.769 do you get more fiber on plates? It's plants. 00:20:53.849 --> 00:20:56.230 You need plants for fiber. It's the only thing 00:20:56.230 --> 00:21:00.250 that has it. And 97 % of Americans are deficient 00:21:00.250 --> 00:21:05.410 in it. Our donors are typically those that care 00:21:05.410 --> 00:21:09.630 about the number of meals impacted, also wanting 00:21:09.630 --> 00:21:13.549 to see kids having access to healthier options. 00:21:14.049 --> 00:21:16.930 And that might be different than those that fund 00:21:16.930 --> 00:21:19.349 other organizations. And that's why I think it's 00:21:19.349 --> 00:21:21.630 so wonderful that there are so many different 00:21:21.630 --> 00:21:24.609 organizations that cover the spectrum and we 00:21:24.609 --> 00:21:28.549 really need all of them. And what's great is 00:21:28.549 --> 00:21:30.789 behind the scenes, a lot of us are working together. 00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:35.420 That's so interesting. Let me raise this point. 00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:42.519 Many times, strategically speaking, you can inspire 00:21:42.519 --> 00:21:49.759 donations by addressing connected issues to your 00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:53.619 cause. So you mentioned children. That is a way 00:21:53.619 --> 00:21:57.160 in for donors who might not care about animals, 00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:01.539 but might care about children and children nutrition. 00:22:03.259 --> 00:22:09.000 Um, do you feel like this is, um, a good way 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:12.039 of approaching, you know, donors? Because I've 00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:15.380 had this conversation with one sanctuary owner 00:22:15.380 --> 00:22:20.099 and vegan activists who told me, um, I'm all 00:22:20.099 --> 00:22:23.539 about veganism. I'm all about the cause. I want, 00:22:23.539 --> 00:22:27.680 you know, uh, talk about connected issues, although 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:32.599 I could. because I feel this betrays the, you 00:22:32.599 --> 00:22:36.220 know, core values of my organization. What do 00:22:36.220 --> 00:22:39.859 you make of that? Oh, gosh. Okay, I have so much 00:22:39.859 --> 00:22:43.660 to say about this question. So while Alice was 00:22:43.660 --> 00:22:48.000 talking, I did pull up so there is a study that 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:51.059 well, it's a follow up study. So we have a reference, 00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:53.779 I'll give it to you. It's called people who support 00:22:53.779 --> 00:22:56.519 animal causes and who gives more. So we did look 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:01.380 at charity donor behavior. This is from 2019, 00:23:01.460 --> 00:23:04.480 so take it with a grain of salt. We are now six 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:07.720 years later. But yeah, as far as demographics 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:13.779 go, people giving to animal causes as important 00:23:13.779 --> 00:23:16.039 or seeing animal causes as important are going 00:23:16.039 --> 00:23:19.220 to skew female, less religious, more liberal. 00:23:21.769 --> 00:23:24.490 do you tend to have these like everyday animal 00:23:24.490 --> 00:23:27.029 related behaviors so normally having a companion 00:23:27.029 --> 00:23:29.410 animal and then when you're looking at monetary 00:23:29.410 --> 00:23:31.730 donations specifically you're going to be looking 00:23:31.730 --> 00:23:34.410 at demographics of those who have a higher income 00:23:34.410 --> 00:23:37.609 their animal related behaviors they're probably 00:23:37.609 --> 00:23:39.509 going to follow a vegan diet especially when 00:23:39.509 --> 00:23:42.710 you're looking at farmed animal protection organizations 00:23:42.710 --> 00:23:46.109 they may have animal appreciation related hobbies 00:23:46.109 --> 00:23:50.589 they're We do have sections looking at donation 00:23:50.589 --> 00:23:52.549 methods as well. I'm not gonna go through the 00:23:52.549 --> 00:23:54.369 whole thing, but that's just kind of like a sneak 00:23:54.369 --> 00:23:56.589 peek. So yeah, we definitely have looked at this. 00:23:56.970 --> 00:24:02.269 As far as like what language to use, I will say, 00:24:02.549 --> 00:24:06.829 don't say vegans. It's the easiest and most accessible 00:24:06.829 --> 00:24:09.130 way. It doesn't mean that your mission is changing. 00:24:09.369 --> 00:24:12.240 It's just the language that you're using. If 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:14.220 you fill out a grant application and you don't 00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:16.460 mention vegan, but at the end of the day, your 00:24:16.460 --> 00:24:19.900 work is pushing forward the shared mission of 00:24:19.900 --> 00:24:22.160 ending animal suffering, does it really matter 00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:24.720 if you use that language? No, because you're 00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:26.980 still achieving your mission. So I would just 00:24:26.980 --> 00:24:29.240 say, especially when you're looking at collaborating 00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:32.480 with other either social justice causes, trying 00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:37.920 to do cross cross sector funding with like education 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.279 or environment. Yeah, just don't say vegan plant 00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:47.390 based. You don't even really say plant -based 00:24:47.390 --> 00:24:49.950 all that much, though our cohort is the plant 00:24:49.950 --> 00:24:54.789 -based cohort. We talk about fiber -rich, healthy, 00:24:55.750 --> 00:24:58.980 plant -forward, fiber -forward. we don't use 00:24:58.980 --> 00:25:01.019 the word vegan. And I don't think it dilutes 00:25:01.019 --> 00:25:04.440 your work at all, because at the end of the day, 00:25:04.460 --> 00:25:07.059 if you're alienating people by using specific 00:25:07.059 --> 00:25:09.140 language, and so they're not willing to meet 00:25:09.140 --> 00:25:11.500 you at the table or to like take on different 00:25:11.500 --> 00:25:20.119 behavioral issues or giving, then you're basically 00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:24.279 disservicing yourself and in turn the animals. 00:25:24.359 --> 00:25:27.210 I mean, there's Some are going to care about 00:25:27.210 --> 00:25:30.289 the environment. And if you have the ability 00:25:30.289 --> 00:25:34.710 and the metrics to frame it that way, you're 00:25:34.710 --> 00:25:36.609 being completely honest in the way that you're 00:25:36.609 --> 00:25:38.950 approaching it. And it just so happens to benefit 00:25:38.950 --> 00:25:45.650 animals. Liz, the study you referenced, I will 00:25:45.650 --> 00:25:48.890 add that to the episode links, please send the 00:25:48.890 --> 00:25:54.809 study my way. What about trends? Is the world 00:25:54.809 --> 00:25:59.589 getting more generous or less generous? Is the 00:25:59.589 --> 00:26:06.450 donation pot shrinking or increasing for the 00:26:06.450 --> 00:26:10.849 animal cause? Do you see any trends? I think 00:26:10.849 --> 00:26:13.890 that once more Liz is going to have the data. 00:26:14.750 --> 00:26:17.269 I think that from what I understand, individual 00:26:17.269 --> 00:26:20.549 giving is down and like, I mean, we all feel 00:26:20.549 --> 00:26:24.390 it with inflation and just like how far the dollar 00:26:24.390 --> 00:26:29.259 or whatever currency you use goes. And that is 00:26:29.259 --> 00:26:31.099 a real thing. That doesn't mean people aren't 00:26:31.099 --> 00:26:37.019 giving. I think we focus on the subscription 00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:40.000 model of recurring and monthly giving. We have 00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:42.640 become a subscription economy in many ways. So 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:49.890 that is one avenue. I think our revenue is growing, 00:26:49.930 --> 00:26:52.470 but that is because we have shifted our focus. 00:26:53.269 --> 00:26:56.930 And, you know, we primarily work with our major 00:26:56.930 --> 00:26:59.349 funders and grants and the family foundations. 00:27:00.329 --> 00:27:03.710 Yeah. So, yep, I came prepared. I have the data. 00:27:04.470 --> 00:27:06.910 But before I jump into that, I do want to say 00:27:06.910 --> 00:27:10.329 for anybody listening who's a fundraiser with 00:27:10.329 --> 00:27:12.869 another organization, the struggle is real for 00:27:12.869 --> 00:27:15.430 all of us. We're all feeling hurt right now. 00:27:15.950 --> 00:27:19.960 2025 is... benchmark year, but not in a good 00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:24.000 way. And it's not abnormal for us to be struggling. 00:27:24.460 --> 00:27:28.160 So there is community here for other fundraisers. 00:27:28.420 --> 00:27:30.920 I would be remiss not to give a shout out to 00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:32.839 the Hive fundraising community calls. They're 00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:35.380 a really great place to connect with other fundraisers. 00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:39.319 We have calls every month. Every other month, 00:27:39.319 --> 00:27:42.160 it's just a community led discussion where fundraisers 00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:44.490 get to bring up. problems that they're having. 00:27:44.589 --> 00:27:46.650 The calls aren't recorded, so it's a safe space 00:27:46.650 --> 00:27:49.250 to kind of bounce ideas off of one another. And 00:27:49.250 --> 00:27:52.049 then on the other months, we have experts come 00:27:52.049 --> 00:27:55.170 and talk to us and do Q &As. We had Megan from 00:27:55.170 --> 00:27:57.609 Greenbaum Foundation, and she did a great presentation 00:27:57.609 --> 00:28:01.569 on doing pitches to funders. So definitely check 00:28:01.569 --> 00:28:04.549 that out. But yeah, as far as the numbers go, 00:28:04.730 --> 00:28:09.369 yeah, we're seeing a decline in donations. Part 00:28:09.369 --> 00:28:14.069 of it has to do with inflation. it's really hard 00:28:14.069 --> 00:28:17.910 to find data specifically to animal protection 00:28:17.910 --> 00:28:21.769 and even harder for farm animal protection. We 00:28:21.769 --> 00:28:25.269 usually reference the GivingUSA annual report. 00:28:25.329 --> 00:28:28.630 So the most recent data that I have access to 00:28:28.630 --> 00:28:30.869 is from 2023. I do know that they just released 00:28:30.869 --> 00:28:33.549 their 2024 report, but we haven't gotten our 00:28:33.549 --> 00:28:36.890 fingers on that yet. But as far as like 2023, 00:28:37.230 --> 00:28:40.369 there was a decline in money towards animals 00:28:40.369 --> 00:28:42.170 in the environment. We're kind of lumped together. 00:28:42.220 --> 00:28:45.900 by 8 .9%. So there is a decline, we know that. 00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:50.799 But of that 3 % of the giving pot, only 1 % really 00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:53.019 goes towards animals. So it's hard to know how 00:28:53.019 --> 00:28:56.319 much of that eight per night. 8 .9 % is attributed 00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:59.720 to environment versus animals. It's nearly impossible 00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:04.740 to say. Stray Dog Institute did conduct a renewed 00:29:04.740 --> 00:29:08.579 state of the sector report that was just published, 00:29:08.619 --> 00:29:11.980 which I'm really excited about. I think it shows 00:29:11.980 --> 00:29:16.359 that there's between 200 and 250 million in funding. 00:29:16.519 --> 00:29:19.920 So the 2021 report was 200 million, so it really 00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:22.740 hasn't increased that much, which is not great. 00:29:24.009 --> 00:29:30.789 But compared to the giving sector in total, there 00:29:30.789 --> 00:29:37.910 was a 3 .4 % decline compared to 2021. So that's 00:29:37.910 --> 00:29:42.910 a loss of quite a few billions. So yeah, we're 00:29:42.910 --> 00:29:50.900 all struggling. If your fundraising is struggling, 00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:54.640 then your entire organization and its impact, 00:29:54.740 --> 00:30:00.200 its reach will be reduced. That's the hard reality. 00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:04.720 And that also highlights the importance of fundraising, 00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:09.440 of the work we're doing. OK, so I guess this 00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:13.019 ties well with my next question, which is how 00:30:13.019 --> 00:30:17.400 much power do we have as fundraisers in the organization? 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:23.160 more than that, how much power do funders have 00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:28.079 over organizations? Alice? Yeah, that's a really 00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:31.319 good question. I mean, I think every organization 00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:33.539 will have a different answer on this because 00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:36.740 I know like when it comes to balance, like We 00:30:36.740 --> 00:30:40.420 do not change our strategy based on a funding 00:30:40.420 --> 00:30:44.400 opportunity. We really have our vision for a 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.940 reason. And we are very nimble as a smaller organization 00:30:47.940 --> 00:30:51.480 when things do change. For example, the administration. 00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:56.140 And we realized that it wasn't going to be impactful 00:30:56.140 --> 00:30:59.980 to continue doubling down on our USDA component 00:30:59.980 --> 00:31:03.519 of our focus on fiber initiative. So we changed 00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:06.680 our strategy. That wasn't thunder directed though. 00:31:07.059 --> 00:31:11.880 And while we will of course take feedback, we 00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:15.200 won't change our strategy based on. what they 00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:18.460 say. As for working within the confines of the 00:31:18.460 --> 00:31:21.500 organization, I work really closely with our 00:31:21.500 --> 00:31:23.839 executive director. I mean, once more, we are 00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:26.039 a smaller organization, so I am the sole development 00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:30.200 person. And so I talk to her most days, whether 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:34.140 it's just a Slack message or otherwise, but we 00:31:34.140 --> 00:31:36.700 work very closely and she keeps me very much 00:31:36.700 --> 00:31:39.579 in the loop because we can't do our jobs without 00:31:39.579 --> 00:31:43.690 each other and in turn the program's teams. Yeah, 00:31:43.849 --> 00:31:46.970 that's a sign of good health, organizational 00:31:46.970 --> 00:31:51.109 health. Liz? Yeah, I mean, I'll just ditto exactly 00:31:51.109 --> 00:31:55.230 what Alice said. I think I always see like my 00:31:55.230 --> 00:31:58.069 role as fundraising, like I'm one person in a 00:31:58.069 --> 00:32:00.470 12 person team. And yes, I'm the only one who 00:32:00.470 --> 00:32:03.779 has philanthropy in their title, but everyone 00:32:03.779 --> 00:32:05.920 in our organization is a fundraiser of sorts. 00:32:05.980 --> 00:32:07.519 They're going to hate me for saying this, so 00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:10.019 I apologize in advance. But they're representatives 00:32:10.019 --> 00:32:12.299 of our organization, and every conversation that 00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:15.599 they have with an advocate that helps them, that 00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:19.039 then can be used for our case for support of, 00:32:19.259 --> 00:32:21.380 oh, yes, we helped this organization. And so 00:32:21.380 --> 00:32:25.819 it really is like a team effort. And my role 00:32:25.819 --> 00:32:28.799 is only made easier by the incredible work that 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:32.380 the rest of our team does. can say like without 00:32:32.380 --> 00:32:35.779 a doubt that we would be completely lost and 00:32:35.779 --> 00:32:39.339 like without the incredible team that we have 00:32:39.339 --> 00:32:42.160 like all of analytics success is because of every 00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:45.279 single person in our organization and our leadership 00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:49.700 is just spectacular. While it's like a one -person 00:32:49.700 --> 00:32:52.240 development team, Brooke who is our executive 00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:55.359 director is there alongside me every step of 00:32:55.359 --> 00:33:00.180 the way and we're just very very lucky. to have 00:33:00.180 --> 00:33:04.220 this strong team that we have. One thing that 00:33:04.220 --> 00:33:08.880 I'll also mention is we will create a fundraising 00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:12.759 plan every single year that changes based on 00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:15.400 what our previous year's revenue is. So this 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:19.140 allows us to look at all of our tactics. Like, 00:33:19.299 --> 00:33:21.440 what are we doing with individual donors? What 00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:24.339 are we doing with grants? Maybe one year it was 00:33:24.339 --> 00:33:26.660 really, really fruitful for grants, but we always 00:33:26.660 --> 00:33:30.019 want to be diversifying our revenue stream. So 00:33:30.019 --> 00:33:31.799 just because one year we had a really great year 00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:33.200 with a bit grants doesn't mean that we're going 00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:36.119 to all of a sudden jump ship and ignore our individual 00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:42.119 donors. So kind of figuring out which areas are 00:33:42.380 --> 00:33:44.819 most promising, what are maybe new possibilities 00:33:44.819 --> 00:33:47.640 that we haven't looked into before. I remember 00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:49.759 the first time that I met Alice, I'm pretty sure 00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:51.319 I was asking her like, what do you do with your 00:33:51.319 --> 00:33:53.240 Bequest program? Because we don't really have 00:33:53.240 --> 00:33:56.240 one. So how can we grow this? So definitely also 00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:58.819 like leaning into your fellow fundraisers and 00:33:58.819 --> 00:34:01.299 figuring out what's going well for them and not 00:34:01.299 --> 00:34:04.240 being afraid to ask stupid questions. That's 00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:07.420 like the number one thing I've learned is just 00:34:07.420 --> 00:34:10.519 lean into your ignorance of what you don't know 00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:13.380 and always be willing to just learn new new things 00:34:13.380 --> 00:34:16.940 because you will that's I think how fundraising 00:34:16.940 --> 00:34:20.579 plans and how your development and your revenue 00:34:20.579 --> 00:34:23.679 can grow is by like constantly learning and constantly 00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:27.739 trying to like figure out that missing piece 00:34:27.739 --> 00:34:30.869 and the one way that I describe fundraising to 00:34:30.869 --> 00:34:32.710 a lot of like my friends and family I'm like 00:34:32.710 --> 00:34:35.130 just imagine me in like a full velcro suit and 00:34:35.130 --> 00:34:37.909 I'm just like throwing myself at the wall and 00:34:37.909 --> 00:34:42.110 like one arm is like has 12 velcro strips strips 00:34:42.110 --> 00:34:44.030 because I know all of the data but then this 00:34:44.030 --> 00:34:45.610 one I have no idea what I'm doing so we're just 00:34:45.610 --> 00:34:48.710 gonna see where I land um and it's a lot of trial 00:34:48.710 --> 00:34:52.170 and error um because of the lack of data in our 00:34:52.170 --> 00:34:57.289 area for fundraising. Yeah, I know that our organization 00:34:57.289 --> 00:35:00.809 has like a fail fast mentality and I love it 00:35:00.809 --> 00:35:03.710 because Like it allows us to try things and if 00:35:03.710 --> 00:35:08.309 it doesn't work. It's not like an issue You know, 00:35:08.309 --> 00:35:12.619 for example my first year at balance I worked 00:35:12.619 --> 00:35:16.920 on a wellness challenge that was a month -long 00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:18.760 challenge, and I wanted it to be really, really 00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:22.480 inclusive. So it was everything from make a plant 00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:26.619 -based meal, to take a walk, to swimming laps, 00:35:26.739 --> 00:35:32.230 so that everyone could do something. And it was 00:35:32.230 --> 00:35:34.909 a lot of work to bring in just a few thousand 00:35:34.909 --> 00:35:37.130 dollars and so like taking into consideration 00:35:37.130 --> 00:35:39.369 like how much work is it going to be could I 00:35:39.369 --> 00:35:41.050 be doing something else because if I can put 00:35:41.050 --> 00:35:43.530 in a grant application that is worth like you 00:35:43.530 --> 00:35:47.190 know five or six figures and be successful versus 00:35:47.190 --> 00:35:50.230 taking a whole month to raise three four five 00:35:50.230 --> 00:35:53.409 grand which one am I going to be going to do 00:35:53.409 --> 00:35:56.150 the next year because you know it's it's really 00:35:56.150 --> 00:36:00.320 working smarter. and hard, but not harder, and 00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:04.679 focusing on the lower hanging fruit. We didn't 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:07.420 have a comms person. How are we going to have 00:36:07.420 --> 00:36:11.559 a strong individual giving team when we didn't 00:36:11.559 --> 00:36:16.300 have people who knew who we were? So now we do, 00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:19.260 and Chris is great, and we're very lucky. Oh 00:36:19.260 --> 00:36:21.400 my god, Alice, I love that you mentioned that 00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:23.539 because in my head I'm just thinking like, we 00:36:23.539 --> 00:36:26.019 did the exact, or I did the exact same thing 00:36:26.019 --> 00:36:28.039 when I first came into Faunalytics. I was like, 00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:30.460 hey, like, I was so ready, so amped, and I was 00:36:30.460 --> 00:36:33.280 like, we're gonna do this donor -centered event, 00:36:33.340 --> 00:36:35.099 we're gonna call it Data Days of Summer, it's 00:36:35.099 --> 00:36:37.039 gonna be like a fundraising online event, it's 00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:40.000 gonna be so great, it's gonna be a benefit. It 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:43.039 sucked. Like, no offense to anybody who contributed 00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:45.599 to it, but it was just like... our donors don't 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:49.039 want to be thanked that way. And it took me doing 00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:51.500 it to realize, okay, this is not the right strategy. 00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:54.159 And so now we have Fauna Connections, which is 00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:56.780 a research symposium, and that is so much more 00:36:56.780 --> 00:36:59.300 aligned with Faunalytics mission. And we don't 00:36:59.300 --> 00:37:01.239 need to be like thanking our donors, they come 00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:03.599 to it and they see the good work that we're doing. 00:37:03.639 --> 00:37:05.800 And that's how they get their appreciation. So 00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:07.719 I just absolutely love Alice that you shared, 00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:10.599 like failing fast, because yeah, totally did 00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:13.559 the exact same thing when I started. Oh, yeah. 00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:15.719 And just because you can put on an event doesn't 00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:21.539 mean you should. Yes. Yeah. Well, this is a great 00:37:21.539 --> 00:37:25.579 moment to talk about stress, the stress that 00:37:25.579 --> 00:37:30.460 this job brings. I don't know if you can relate, 00:37:30.780 --> 00:37:34.300 but I often think of myself as the only one in 00:37:34.300 --> 00:37:37.019 the organization who's actually bringing money 00:37:37.019 --> 00:37:43.519 in. And so I have to justify my salary. And I'm 00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:49.360 always thinking about how much of a good fundraiser 00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:53.559 I am in terms of how much of a good investment 00:37:53.559 --> 00:37:59.639 I am for my organization. So what do you make 00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:03.960 of that pressure to be productive, to bring that 00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:07.980 money, to keep your organization basically alive? 00:38:11.750 --> 00:38:14.309 I've been in that position before. Luckily, when 00:38:14.309 --> 00:38:16.550 I came to Faunalytics, I felt like I was just 00:38:16.550 --> 00:38:18.449 like walking into like Willy Wonka's Chocolate 00:38:18.449 --> 00:38:20.269 Factory. I was like, wait, you have all of these 00:38:20.269 --> 00:38:23.289 amazing things in place? Like what? They like, 00:38:23.530 --> 00:38:26.679 I was just like, this, this is amazing. I think 00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:29.559 it really starts with leadership honestly like 00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:32.079 I hate using this like term like culture of an 00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:35.619 organization because it's been misused and like 00:38:35.619 --> 00:38:37.960 put against employees so often it's like oh this 00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:40.880 is our culture blah blah blah but truly like 00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:43.079 I think if you have good leadership that's willing 00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:47.739 to um kind of like practice what they preach 00:38:47.739 --> 00:38:51.440 and like take their vacation time off and like 00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:53.780 set good boundaries and like allow sick days 00:38:53.780 --> 00:38:56.980 to be used for mental health. Like when I came 00:38:56.980 --> 00:38:58.639 into Faunalytics, it was like a no -brainer. 00:38:58.699 --> 00:39:00.739 It was like your sick days can be used for mental 00:39:00.739 --> 00:39:02.420 health if you want to just take like a self -care 00:39:02.420 --> 00:39:05.179 day with your sick day like that it is for you 00:39:05.179 --> 00:39:08.440 to use. And to me that was like that just took 00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:10.500 off so much pressure of like worrying like oh 00:39:10.500 --> 00:39:13.280 my gosh like if I'm sick if this like grant deadline 00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:15.320 comes up it's like very much a collaborative 00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:18.179 work environment and I think I would like push 00:39:18.179 --> 00:39:19.820 back a little and say like the onus is really 00:39:19.820 --> 00:39:22.000 on the organization to set up those things to 00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:27.599 ensure that employees can thrive. Employees have 00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:30.349 a responsibility to show up. work every day and 00:39:30.349 --> 00:39:32.489 to put their best foot forward and to do the 00:39:32.489 --> 00:39:34.590 best work that they can but that's only possible 00:39:34.590 --> 00:39:36.630 when there are structures in place that allow 00:39:36.630 --> 00:39:39.469 people to thrive and not feel like they are dying 00:39:39.469 --> 00:39:41.269 every time they come to work and let they're 00:39:41.269 --> 00:39:43.969 just like a number or a machine because we're 00:39:43.969 --> 00:39:46.929 not and we work in an area where arguably we 00:39:46.929 --> 00:39:50.150 are facing a lot of really like traumatizing 00:39:50.150 --> 00:39:52.769 content sometimes like I can't tell you how many 00:39:52.769 --> 00:39:54.710 times like I scroll through like graphic imagery 00:39:54.710 --> 00:39:59.590 of animals um and it's like just having a good 00:39:59.590 --> 00:40:01.230 organization and good leadership that's willing 00:40:01.230 --> 00:40:03.010 to back you up really makes a difference. So 00:40:03.010 --> 00:40:05.489 I would say like, from my conversations with 00:40:05.489 --> 00:40:07.329 other fundraisers, there are great organizations 00:40:07.329 --> 00:40:09.590 out there. So if you're being treated in a way 00:40:09.590 --> 00:40:11.929 that makes you feel like a machine, find another 00:40:11.929 --> 00:40:15.849 job because you will be appreciated. There are 00:40:15.849 --> 00:40:18.949 people that will appreciate you. Oh my God, a 00:40:18.949 --> 00:40:23.110 hundred percent. I am like so passionate about 00:40:23.110 --> 00:40:26.250 culture actually and about organizational health. 00:40:28.210 --> 00:40:30.449 Because, you know, echoing what you're saying, 00:40:30.610 --> 00:40:35.250 Liz, like if you do not have really kind, compassionate 00:40:35.250 --> 00:40:39.610 and effective leaders at the top who work, you 00:40:39.610 --> 00:40:43.369 know, work from like a place of once more compassion, 00:40:43.789 --> 00:40:46.210 like there doesn't need to be any ego. Audrey 00:40:46.210 --> 00:40:49.469 is the best leader. She is so highly competent. 00:40:50.190 --> 00:40:54.199 She could do so many of our jobs. And she trusts 00:40:54.199 --> 00:40:57.699 us so much. She gives us so much autonomy. She's 00:40:57.699 --> 00:41:01.199 there as a person to brainstorm solutions when 00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:05.960 needed. I mean, I live in LA. So fortunately, 00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:10.719 we weren't. as impacted as some but like we temporarily 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:13.820 left our homes during the fires and during that 00:41:13.820 --> 00:41:16.260 time we had a huge grant deadline and Audrey 00:41:16.260 --> 00:41:19.860 really stepped in. It's like having a compassionate 00:41:19.860 --> 00:41:22.940 and effective leader is amazing and hiring the 00:41:22.940 --> 00:41:25.639 right people though that's like the second step. 00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:29.429 I mean Not to go off on too much of a tangent, 00:41:29.590 --> 00:41:32.090 but our hiring process, I've never been a part 00:41:32.090 --> 00:41:34.409 of an organization that does it quite this way. 00:41:34.789 --> 00:41:37.630 And so every time someone new comes on board, 00:41:37.769 --> 00:41:40.289 there's this infusion of really good energy. 00:41:41.329 --> 00:41:44.989 And I've started putting in our grant applications 00:41:44.989 --> 00:41:48.409 how we have 100 % retention. People don't leave. 00:41:48.849 --> 00:41:52.150 And I think that speaks volumes. And yes, if 00:41:52.150 --> 00:41:54.349 you're not being taken care of and treated as 00:41:54.349 --> 00:41:59.079 a human first, leave, find another place, because 00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:02.179 there are great organizations that have wonderful 00:42:02.179 --> 00:42:06.000 people at every level. And everyone who's doing 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:09.159 this type of work deserves that. And I can't 00:42:09.159 --> 00:42:11.820 remember the original question, but I do really, 00:42:12.019 --> 00:42:16.860 really. It's a big issue for me to make sure 00:42:16.860 --> 00:42:20.230 that really good people are taken care of. Yeah, 00:42:20.510 --> 00:42:22.510 I also recall you saying something about, like, 00:42:22.630 --> 00:42:24.050 making sure that you're, like, getting that grant 00:42:24.050 --> 00:42:26.829 that, like, justifies, like, your worth. Yeah. 00:42:27.250 --> 00:42:30.610 I will mention Phonelytics has a study that looks 00:42:30.610 --> 00:42:33.110 at compensation in the farmed animal advocacy 00:42:33.110 --> 00:42:38.239 sector. So we surveyed... a bunch of organizations, 00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:42.559 the number 27 organizations I think, and we're 00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:45.599 able to pull salary groups across all participating 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:47.500 organizations. So this is publicly available 00:42:47.500 --> 00:42:51.679 data. So if you want to be able to request a 00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:54.099 raise to make sure you're being fairly compensated, 00:42:54.260 --> 00:42:56.980 we have this information for you. And not you 00:42:56.980 --> 00:42:58.780 specifically. Anybody who's listening is what 00:42:58.780 --> 00:43:01.820 I'm trying to allude to. No, no. I think that's 00:43:01.820 --> 00:43:04.599 great. Because also, if people are being compensated 00:43:04.599 --> 00:43:08.139 and they have the appropriate benefits to have 00:43:08.139 --> 00:43:10.599 a work -life balance, then they stay. If people 00:43:10.599 --> 00:43:13.460 stay, they have all the institutional knowledge. 00:43:13.739 --> 00:43:15.500 If they have the institutional knowledge, they'll 00:43:15.500 --> 00:43:18.420 be able to do the work faster and better than 00:43:18.420 --> 00:43:20.380 bringing on someone new, not saying that there 00:43:20.380 --> 00:43:22.599 aren't any job seekers that really would do great, 00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:27.090 because I know a few of them. Yeah, take care 00:43:27.090 --> 00:43:31.030 of the people. And yeah, I feel very lucky because 00:43:31.030 --> 00:43:32.849 I don't feel like I'm in a position where I have 00:43:32.849 --> 00:43:34.909 to prove my worth. And I think that is indicative 00:43:34.909 --> 00:43:37.869 of the organization that I'm at, because it really 00:43:37.869 --> 00:43:42.690 is like a human first mentality. And also like, 00:43:42.809 --> 00:43:45.170 and this hasn't always been the case in places 00:43:45.170 --> 00:43:49.710 that I have worked, we have like such sustainable 00:43:49.710 --> 00:43:54.739 growth strategy and such like financial responsibility 00:43:54.739 --> 00:43:59.340 that if like, if we had a really bad fundraising 00:43:59.340 --> 00:44:01.300 year this year, no one's going to lose their 00:44:01.300 --> 00:44:04.480 jobs. And having that safety net because of leadership 00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:07.900 and our board, that means that I can sleep at 00:44:07.900 --> 00:44:10.280 night if there's like an emergency going on in 00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:14.059 my own life. Not to say that I want any more 00:44:14.059 --> 00:44:19.900 fires in Los Angeles. Come on people. Those are 00:44:19.900 --> 00:44:26.639 incredibly, um, great points to note and memorize. 00:44:27.699 --> 00:44:31.659 I would add, yes, it is important to get great 00:44:31.659 --> 00:44:36.079 compensation, but be careful. There are jobs 00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:40.840 with great salary offers, but the culture is 00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:45.659 not that good, and you really need to prioritize 00:44:45.659 --> 00:44:51.070 the culture versus the salary. you won't win 00:44:51.070 --> 00:44:54.550 with you know, just the salary. You only have 00:44:54.550 --> 00:44:58.530 one body and one mind. Yeah, you can always make 00:44:58.530 --> 00:45:03.349 more money later or from you know, another better 00:45:03.349 --> 00:45:07.989 offer elsewhere. But yeah, so be careful about 00:45:07.989 --> 00:45:13.170 the also, I'm such a better fundraiser, getting 00:45:13.170 --> 00:45:15.170 to like fundraise for an organization that I 00:45:15.170 --> 00:45:18.679 believe in where I truly am proud of all of my 00:45:18.679 --> 00:45:21.980 coworkers and what they do. I am so impressed 00:45:21.980 --> 00:45:25.119 by each and every one of them. And I can't do 00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:26.960 their jobs. They can't do my job. I can't do 00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:30.639 their job, truly. More so if they don't want 00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:35.800 to do my job. They could probably do it. But 00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:40.079 at the end of the day, if you are working for 00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:42.840 a mission that you believe in, and in an organization 00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:46.519 that does have healthy culture, fundraising is 00:45:46.519 --> 00:45:53.340 so much easier. Yeah. Okay, let me ask something 00:45:53.340 --> 00:46:00.219 else. This time related to impact. And I've been 00:46:00.219 --> 00:46:05.619 playing with this idea that often the focus in 00:46:05.619 --> 00:46:11.280 our movement is to convert people to a vegan 00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:15.719 lifestyle or a healthy fiber -rich lifestyle, 00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:21.659 whatever terms we use. But there are people who 00:46:21.659 --> 00:46:27.099 just won't do it for a number of reasons, many 00:46:27.099 --> 00:46:30.739 of them being valid reasons. If you're struggling 00:46:30.739 --> 00:46:33.940 with an eating disorder, I don't think you should 00:46:33.940 --> 00:46:37.039 be the target of people wanting you to become 00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:43.219 vegan. Um, in any case, so what about alternatives 00:46:43.219 --> 00:46:47.940 to advance the movement? And of course, for me, 00:46:48.039 --> 00:46:53.159 the answer to that is donations. Uh, if you cannot, 00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:58.679 uh, become vegan, um, you can still become a 00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:01.639 donor for the cause and you're going to still, 00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:04.659 you know, make a huge impact with your gift. 00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:08.630 What do you make of that idea? I think that's 00:47:08.630 --> 00:47:12.849 a really interesting idea. I feel like I've used 00:47:12.849 --> 00:47:16.750 it as an argument in a very different subject 00:47:16.750 --> 00:47:20.849 matter, where I've suggested to non -vegan business 00:47:20.849 --> 00:47:22.889 owners that they have a vegan business. I'm like, 00:47:22.989 --> 00:47:24.550 OK, if you don't want it, but if your business 00:47:24.550 --> 00:47:26.929 is vegan, you're still doing wonderful good in 00:47:26.929 --> 00:47:31.650 this world. And I love the utopian vision of 00:47:31.650 --> 00:47:34.369 everyone being vegan. That would be amazing. 00:47:34.909 --> 00:47:38.449 My husband's not vegan. We are going to have 00:47:38.449 --> 00:47:41.150 vegan babies one day, but he's not vegan and 00:47:41.150 --> 00:47:45.250 maybe he'll never go vegan. And, you know, honestly, 00:47:45.389 --> 00:47:47.769 sometimes he walks in a room and he's better 00:47:47.769 --> 00:47:50.610 equipped to get someone to try a vegan product 00:47:50.610 --> 00:47:53.050 because he's not vegan and they don't want to 00:47:53.050 --> 00:47:57.329 listen to the vegan. Yeah, this world is complex 00:47:57.329 --> 00:48:03.170 beyond our grasp. And yeah, I definitely understand 00:48:03.170 --> 00:48:05.869 the struggle of living with people who are not 00:48:05.869 --> 00:48:10.420 vegan. Liz? Yeah, gosh, all this makes me think 00:48:10.420 --> 00:48:14.400 up is I like in my head is stuck as when I went 00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:17.019 to the Animal and Vegan Advocacy Summit, gosh, 00:48:17.019 --> 00:48:18.860 this was like three years ago now. I think it 00:48:18.860 --> 00:48:21.559 was like the first year or something. Steven 00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:25.039 from Connect for Animals did a lightning presentation 00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:28.659 on social contagion theory. And that has just 00:48:28.659 --> 00:48:31.300 really stuck with me. It's like the idea that, 00:48:31.300 --> 00:48:35.280 you know, sometimes we're in this silo, this 00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:37.909 like tunnel vision of veganism right because 00:48:37.909 --> 00:48:40.769 everybody around us is vegan like our co -workers 00:48:40.769 --> 00:48:43.349 are the people in our movement are but there's 00:48:43.349 --> 00:48:46.929 an entire world where people really like do not 00:48:46.929 --> 00:48:51.010 vibe with us um and i have just kept this in 00:48:51.010 --> 00:48:53.070 my mind as i moved out to the rural countryside 00:48:53.070 --> 00:48:55.710 and it's like nobody here is there's like no 00:48:55.710 --> 00:48:59.170 restaurants with vegan options and so Am I gonna 00:48:59.170 --> 00:49:01.769 turn any of those people away from donating to 00:49:01.769 --> 00:49:04.869 my sanctuary? Absolutely not. That would be ludicrous 00:49:04.869 --> 00:49:07.469 because we know that vegans aren't the majority 00:49:07.469 --> 00:49:09.090 of the population. We're already dealing with 00:49:09.090 --> 00:49:11.750 such a small pot of money. Do we really want 00:49:11.750 --> 00:49:14.530 to restrict ourselves more? And I wouldn't even 00:49:14.530 --> 00:49:16.409 say it's about like morals, like only accepting 00:49:16.409 --> 00:49:19.650 money from vegans because that's not gonna advance 00:49:19.650 --> 00:49:22.550 our mission. And so like, as long as you have 00:49:22.550 --> 00:49:24.949 a proper, I would say like gift acceptance policy, 00:49:26.030 --> 00:49:28.309 I would definitely not include not including 00:49:28.309 --> 00:49:31.710 donations from from non -vegans or like vegetarians 00:49:31.710 --> 00:49:35.389 or flexitarians or reducitarians or omnivores 00:49:35.389 --> 00:49:38.590 like there's just so much good we can do and 00:49:38.590 --> 00:49:41.550 everybody is at a different step in their journey. 00:49:43.230 --> 00:49:45.230 If people didn't take my money before I went 00:49:45.230 --> 00:49:47.389 vegan like that would be really awful because 00:49:47.389 --> 00:49:51.320 that would really not be good for them. I just, 00:49:51.420 --> 00:49:52.940 yeah, I think we just have to meet people where 00:49:52.940 --> 00:49:58.039 they are and kind of reach out to them with these 00:49:58.039 --> 00:50:02.059 steps. It really, it's been proven to work. Different 00:50:02.059 --> 00:50:05.159 strokes for different folks, right? Totally. 00:50:05.260 --> 00:50:10.719 And I think, you know, our donor base and our 00:50:10.719 --> 00:50:14.940 supporters and even our participants are not 00:50:14.940 --> 00:50:18.679 necessarily vegan or plant based, but they want 00:50:18.679 --> 00:50:21.519 healthier options and those just once more so 00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:24.239 happened to be plants and so by like for us we 00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:27.500 focus on the nutrient interventions as it's something 00:50:27.500 --> 00:50:30.360 that people don't argue against you know we're 00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:33.639 showing them the evidence based science and we're 00:50:33.639 --> 00:50:36.440 saying like you know we need to focus on low 00:50:36.440 --> 00:50:38.920 cholesterol and lower saturated fats and lower 00:50:38.920 --> 00:50:42.619 sodium and this that and the other thing and 00:50:42.619 --> 00:50:45.119 this is how you do it and we provide the solutions 00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:49.750 for that and Children are consuming more plants. 00:50:50.670 --> 00:50:53.530 It's a win -win for everyone. I mean, even a 00:50:53.530 --> 00:50:55.329 lot of our work on the policy front in the last 00:50:55.329 --> 00:50:58.530 few years has been working in response to upon 00:50:58.530 --> 00:51:02.269 request legislature that's like legislation that 00:51:02.269 --> 00:51:05.650 passed in Illinois where there was a lot of that 00:51:05.650 --> 00:51:07.630 passed that said if a student requests a plant 00:51:07.630 --> 00:51:09.710 -based school lunch that the school is required 00:51:09.710 --> 00:51:13.130 to provide it. And so we co -founded the Plant 00:51:13.130 --> 00:51:14.849 -Based School Lunch Collaborative and More Plants 00:51:14.849 --> 00:51:19.289 on Plates Illinois, where we worked with a philanthropy 00:51:19.289 --> 00:51:22.590 organization and a marketing firm to get the 00:51:22.590 --> 00:51:25.289 word out and to make the resources easily accessible 00:51:25.289 --> 00:51:28.170 so that students could request plant -based school 00:51:28.170 --> 00:51:30.690 lunches through the programs and the infrastructure 00:51:30.690 --> 00:51:33.090 that was already in place. Were all those people 00:51:33.090 --> 00:51:37.440 vegan? Probably not. And so we need to work together. 00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:39.579 I mean, my non -vegan friends go to vegan restaurants 00:51:39.579 --> 00:51:42.380 all the time. They buy Miyoko's butter. They 00:51:42.380 --> 00:51:44.239 get the plant -based meat alternatives. They 00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:48.360 drink oat milk and soy milk, you know, baby steps. 00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:55.179 Why do you think people don't consider fundraising 00:51:55.179 --> 00:52:00.340 as a valid form or more popular form of activism? 00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:05.059 Like, people go and protest and go on, you know, 00:52:05.210 --> 00:52:07.610 to all sorts of things in the name of animals. 00:52:08.369 --> 00:52:10.510 But fundraising is always at the bottom of the 00:52:10.510 --> 00:52:15.010 list, if not, you know, not even on the list. 00:52:16.369 --> 00:52:19.510 So why aren't people thinking about fundraising 00:52:19.510 --> 00:52:23.550 as a valid way to do activism? I think people 00:52:23.550 --> 00:52:26.940 are afraid to ask for help in general. Like I 00:52:26.940 --> 00:52:29.599 just feel like that's applicable across like 00:52:29.599 --> 00:52:33.820 just humanity. It's like the idea of being vulnerable 00:52:33.820 --> 00:52:36.739 and saying like I need you for something. But 00:52:36.739 --> 00:52:38.420 like I mentioned before, I don't really see it 00:52:38.420 --> 00:52:41.059 as asking. I see it as like a collaboration, 00:52:41.579 --> 00:52:44.579 a connection, a relationship. And so we don't 00:52:44.579 --> 00:52:46.099 really take that approach. But I can definitely 00:52:46.099 --> 00:52:48.000 see like people just not feeling comfortable 00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:51.739 asking. We've seen that like peer -to -peer giving 00:52:51.739 --> 00:52:54.360 is a really big struggle for our organization. 00:52:55.559 --> 00:52:58.039 trying to convince people to fundraise on behalf 00:52:58.039 --> 00:52:59.739 of our organization, and I think it's just because 00:52:59.739 --> 00:53:01.500 people are uncomfortable having to make that 00:53:01.500 --> 00:53:05.539 ask. There's so much going on in the world that 00:53:05.539 --> 00:53:08.260 it can feel really privileged to say, like, will 00:53:08.260 --> 00:53:13.340 you donate to animals? And so, I mean, I don't 00:53:13.340 --> 00:53:15.159 think everybody has to, is the thing, right? 00:53:16.340 --> 00:53:21.539 It's, I wish everybody did, but I think people 00:53:21.539 --> 00:53:25.070 should really focus on what they're most passionate 00:53:25.070 --> 00:53:29.150 about. And then that will show through your activism. 00:53:29.190 --> 00:53:33.269 So if you are like a very much on the grounds 00:53:33.269 --> 00:53:37.070 person and you want to protest your heart's content, 00:53:37.610 --> 00:53:40.329 do that, do it effectively. Read our research 00:53:40.329 --> 00:53:43.769 on what the most effective ways are. But as long 00:53:43.769 --> 00:53:46.710 as you're putting your all into everything and 00:53:46.710 --> 00:53:49.530 trying to make sure that you're, you know, doing 00:53:49.530 --> 00:53:52.469 it with the most effective strategies, tactics. 00:53:53.329 --> 00:53:55.670 I don't think that everybody should have to fundraise 00:53:55.670 --> 00:54:00.110 if they don't want to. I really like that. I 00:54:00.110 --> 00:54:03.050 really like that approach, Liz. I think also 00:54:03.050 --> 00:54:05.769 it's like giving within your means and I think 00:54:05.769 --> 00:54:08.789 the last number of years have just been collectively 00:54:08.789 --> 00:54:11.550 really hard. You know, we've survived a global 00:54:11.550 --> 00:54:15.389 pandemic. There's numerous political issues across 00:54:15.389 --> 00:54:20.360 numerous countries going on. There there is just 00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:23.360 like so much happening that and the news cycle 00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:27.119 just goes so fast now So I think there's probably 00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:29.400 like a collective compassion fatigue as well 00:54:29.400 --> 00:54:32.920 And so people are just tuning out there's so 00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:36.039 much like our inboxes are flooded every single 00:54:36.039 --> 00:54:39.599 day and so a lot of people are just our capacity 00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:43.630 and you know and that has like Changed our approach 00:54:43.630 --> 00:54:47.630 even to giving Tuesday where you know we we limit 00:54:47.630 --> 00:54:49.969 the amount of emails not we're not you know we 00:54:49.969 --> 00:54:53.170 are participating we are sending out emails but 00:54:53.170 --> 00:54:55.849 we're not going to be sending out eight or ten 00:54:55.849 --> 00:54:59.010 emails. People are getting emails from everyone. 00:55:00.489 --> 00:55:04.510 You know we we we I think we just really like 00:55:04.510 --> 00:55:07.070 focus on the human human first component more 00:55:07.070 --> 00:55:09.210 than anything else and we are all on the receiving 00:55:09.210 --> 00:55:14.079 end of that. And yeah, I agree. We all have our 00:55:14.079 --> 00:55:18.460 own special gifts and talents and interests and 00:55:18.460 --> 00:55:22.440 flavors. And if that is protesting, if that is 00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:25.840 working in the movement, you are fundraising. 00:55:26.239 --> 00:55:28.679 You are giving. You are donating by giving your 00:55:28.679 --> 00:55:33.150 time, volunteering. You know, direct rescue, 00:55:33.309 --> 00:55:35.690 there's so many different things that are so 00:55:35.690 --> 00:55:38.150 valid. And if you can give on top of that, if 00:55:38.150 --> 00:55:41.570 you have the capacity, fantastic. Should you 00:55:41.570 --> 00:55:49.889 donate and go hungry? No. Last question. Sanctuaries. 00:55:50.730 --> 00:55:55.670 It feels like sanctuaries are just struggling 00:55:55.670 --> 00:56:00.880 for money. um as someone you know struggling 00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:04.360 for air and drawing like this is the image i 00:56:04.360 --> 00:56:07.019 get every time i come across you know different 00:56:07.019 --> 00:56:13.079 sanctuaries um what do you make of that why are 00:56:13.079 --> 00:56:17.320 sanctuaries the ugly duck of the movement and 00:56:17.320 --> 00:56:21.880 not getting much love from funders what's happening 00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:24.840 here oh boy so i don't know if you knew this 00:56:24.840 --> 00:56:29.130 about me but i have a sanctuary a chicken microsanctuary. 00:56:29.230 --> 00:56:32.369 So I have this really unique experience of working 00:56:32.369 --> 00:56:34.989 for both what I would say is like an international 00:56:34.989 --> 00:56:37.789 organization. We conduct research that reaches 00:56:37.789 --> 00:56:40.210 and is translated into many languages across 00:56:40.210 --> 00:56:44.269 the world. And then I have a very micro chicken 00:56:44.269 --> 00:56:47.309 sanctuary with 22 rescue chickens. So I see like 00:56:47.309 --> 00:56:49.929 two completely opposite, not opposites, but they 00:56:49.929 --> 00:56:54.469 mesh well, sides of the movement. I think in 00:56:54.469 --> 00:57:00.250 my opinion, the sanctuaries hardest thing to 00:57:00.250 --> 00:57:05.010 overcome is legitimacy in the movement. I think 00:57:05.010 --> 00:57:09.409 there isn't really a good network right now of 00:57:09.409 --> 00:57:11.369 sanctuaries and it's something that I've been 00:57:11.369 --> 00:57:15.539 working very hard on trying to help fix. You'll 00:57:15.539 --> 00:57:17.920 see things like sanctuary meetups at the Animal 00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:20.000 and Vegan Advocacy Summit. You'll see things 00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:23.059 like the Global Federation of Animal Sanctuaries, 00:57:23.219 --> 00:57:26.079 GFAS, which does accreditation, but isn't always 00:57:26.079 --> 00:57:29.599 realistic for all sanctuaries. And there isn't 00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:32.539 really a collective or a network where all the 00:57:32.539 --> 00:57:35.659 sanctuaries gather together to share resources 00:57:35.659 --> 00:57:39.260 or data or research. Like I mentioned at the 00:57:39.260 --> 00:57:42.670 beginning of the podcast, Fauna Lake did do a 00:57:42.670 --> 00:57:44.969 study with farm sanctuary, but that was in 2021. 00:57:45.150 --> 00:57:49.989 So again, it's getting older now. Personally, 00:57:50.289 --> 00:57:52.590 I do think that sanctuaries are very effective, 00:57:52.889 --> 00:57:55.449 not just because I have one, but because I've 00:57:55.449 --> 00:57:58.190 taken time to look through the research and data 00:57:58.190 --> 00:58:01.369 that shows that positive solution -focused messaging 00:58:01.369 --> 00:58:05.010 is more effective than graphic imageries. Sanctuaries 00:58:05.010 --> 00:58:08.739 can... kind of bypass this like moral disengagement 00:58:08.739 --> 00:58:10.920 because they're not triggering guilt they're 00:58:10.920 --> 00:58:13.420 like creating a connection they're like fostering 00:58:13.420 --> 00:58:17.300 empathy and I think like sanctuaries do a really 00:58:17.300 --> 00:58:19.539 good job at shifting social norms I think the 00:58:19.539 --> 00:58:21.619 biggest issue is that sanctuaries don't see that 00:58:21.619 --> 00:58:23.639 they're doing this they're so focused on the 00:58:23.639 --> 00:58:26.219 individual animals that they're rescuing that 00:58:26.219 --> 00:58:29.139 they have a hard time because of capacity because 00:58:29.139 --> 00:58:30.760 they're so overburdened a lot of them are just 00:58:30.760 --> 00:58:33.579 volunteer run like ours is myself and my partner, 00:58:33.579 --> 00:58:35.340 we don't take a dime from it. All of our team 00:58:35.340 --> 00:58:39.199 is volunteer. It's all stuff that we just do. 00:58:40.340 --> 00:58:41.920 But yeah, I think that they have a really, really 00:58:41.920 --> 00:58:44.420 hard time being able to like take a step back 00:58:44.420 --> 00:58:46.380 from that animal care, having the capacity to 00:58:46.380 --> 00:58:48.820 do so and say like, okay, well, how are we influencing 00:58:48.820 --> 00:58:51.619 people online? How are we influencing people 00:58:51.619 --> 00:58:55.780 who come for tours? And so my hope is that over 00:58:55.780 --> 00:58:58.340 the next few years that there'll be more collaboration. 00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:01.659 And this will be something that we'll look at 00:59:01.659 --> 00:59:08.739 more. That is so tender and from the heart. I 00:59:08.739 --> 00:59:12.780 mean, it's so interesting because I feel like 00:59:12.780 --> 00:59:15.139 this has been a shift even just in the time that 00:59:15.139 --> 00:59:23.820 I've been part of the movement. And I feel like 00:59:24.059 --> 00:59:26.900 Since people have been able to accumulate some 00:59:26.900 --> 00:59:30.000 of this data, they've kind of shifted away from 00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:34.440 funding sanctuaries in many ways. And I totally 00:59:34.440 --> 00:59:38.699 understand wanting to spare as many animals as 00:59:38.699 --> 00:59:41.980 possible. I think that is a very valid approach. 00:59:42.550 --> 00:59:46.409 and at the same time like each animal at a sanctuary 00:59:46.409 --> 00:59:49.250 has the ability to be an ambassador for their 00:59:49.250 --> 00:59:52.369 species and honestly deserves to have a life 00:59:52.369 --> 00:59:55.730 that feels and you know feels good and make sure 00:59:55.730 --> 00:59:57.949 that they're well taken care of and well fed 00:59:57.949 --> 01:00:01.570 and nurtured and loved and you know there's there's 01:00:01.570 --> 01:00:03.889 so much goodness that can come from that too 01:00:03.889 --> 01:00:07.190 it really is a both and and so that's why i you 01:00:07.190 --> 01:00:10.739 know i think focusing on there's the donor that's 01:00:10.739 --> 01:00:13.159 going to be motivated by the sanctuary experience 01:00:13.159 --> 01:00:16.340 and story and what it means in this, in this 01:00:16.340 --> 01:00:18.119 space. And then there's going to be the folks 01:00:18.119 --> 01:00:20.940 that, you know, have a totally different psychology 01:00:20.940 --> 01:00:26.380 and giving approach. And that is okay. But I 01:00:26.380 --> 01:00:31.619 think there's room for both and it would be a 01:00:31.619 --> 01:00:35.659 huge disservice to not promote sanctuaries and 01:00:35.659 --> 01:00:37.820 the people who are running them because they 01:00:37.820 --> 01:00:42.320 are so hard working. And I can only imagine how 01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:46.599 the effects of inflation and the cost of living 01:00:46.599 --> 01:00:49.179 has changed things. Because if I'm feeling it 01:00:49.179 --> 01:00:51.730 when I'm going to the grocery store, I can only 01:00:51.730 --> 01:00:54.789 imagine when it comes to animal feed and supplies 01:00:54.789 --> 01:00:58.849 and supply chain issues or veterinary care. Because 01:00:58.849 --> 01:01:01.789 if I can feel that with my dogs, how much it 01:01:01.789 --> 01:01:05.210 costs for them, how much is it on a grander scale? 01:01:05.369 --> 01:01:07.829 So I can see where the day to day is really hard 01:01:07.829 --> 01:01:11.389 and really expensive. And I feel like there's 01:01:11.389 --> 01:01:13.750 still a lot of value there. And so just finding 01:01:13.750 --> 01:01:17.130 the right people who get to experience that, 01:01:17.269 --> 01:01:21.460 because I mean, It really is a gift to the animals 01:01:21.460 --> 01:01:27.519 and to the humans. Everyone. Yeah, if you're 01:01:27.519 --> 01:01:32.260 a sanctuary owner like Liz, take note of Alice 01:01:32.260 --> 01:01:35.099 and Liz answers because you have your case of 01:01:35.099 --> 01:01:39.420 support right there. I could go on with questions. 01:01:39.900 --> 01:01:42.980 There is so much to cover with fundraising. By 01:01:42.980 --> 01:01:48.679 the way, do we all have like birds? birds creatures 01:01:48.679 --> 01:01:55.500 artwork on our background I'm trying to see like 01:01:55.500 --> 01:01:57.599 what my back I'm trying to remember what my background 01:01:57.599 --> 01:01:59.739 I think it's like fruit coffee and like butterflies 01:01:59.739 --> 01:02:04.420 and flowers rooster somewhere wait yeah there's 01:02:04.420 --> 01:02:16.699 a little chicken yeah I went for this one okay 01:02:16.699 --> 01:02:19.719 so did you want to add something before I stop 01:02:19.719 --> 01:02:22.519 the recording Yeah, I mean, so I would just say 01:02:22.519 --> 01:02:25.420 like, for any fundraisers that are listening 01:02:25.420 --> 01:02:28.699 to this, yeah, join our Hive fundraising community 01:02:28.699 --> 01:02:31.860 calls for any donors who are listening to this. 01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:36.059 consider donating to politics and balanced, of 01:02:36.059 --> 01:02:40.099 course. And then also just if you're an advocate 01:02:40.099 --> 01:02:43.019 who's just like curious about fundraising, Animal 01:02:43.019 --> 01:02:45.000 Advocacy Careers is absolutely amazing and it 01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:46.780 has a great course where you can learn more about 01:02:46.780 --> 01:02:50.360 fundraising. You can always reach out to me. 01:02:50.360 --> 01:02:53.099 I'll provide my email so people can connect with 01:02:53.099 --> 01:02:55.119 us. And then, yeah, if anybody is just listening 01:02:55.119 --> 01:02:59.840 to this just for general I was going to say shits 01:02:59.840 --> 01:03:01.239 and giggles, you might have to cut that out. 01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:06.219 But if they're just listening for fun, then feel 01:03:06.219 --> 01:03:08.260 free to use Phonelytics office hours anytime 01:03:08.260 --> 01:03:12.139 you need any advocacy help. Thank you, Liz. Alice? 01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:19.139 I love that. I mean, let's see. I'm trying to 01:03:19.139 --> 01:03:21.840 think. Honestly, I think just having these types 01:03:21.840 --> 01:03:25.000 of conversations more regularly, I think it really, 01:03:25.079 --> 01:03:29.079 one, it provides an opportunity for connection 01:03:29.079 --> 01:03:32.199 and collaboration. I get a lot more energy when 01:03:32.199 --> 01:03:34.940 I'm talking to really wonderful people about 01:03:34.940 --> 01:03:38.079 the good work that they're doing. is inspiring. 01:03:38.079 --> 01:03:41.579 And I am very grateful for the in -person opportunities 01:03:41.579 --> 01:03:43.480 that we do have allotted to us, whether it's 01:03:43.480 --> 01:03:46.760 at Eva, Reducetarian. I'm really excited to go 01:03:46.760 --> 01:03:49.579 to Reducetarian in October. I'm really excited 01:03:49.579 --> 01:03:53.179 to go to Clem. Yes, exactly. I love conferences. 01:03:53.400 --> 01:03:56.980 It is weird. I lose my voice, my throat hurts, 01:03:57.019 --> 01:03:59.739 and I'm happy. And I'm so drained at the end 01:03:59.739 --> 01:04:03.460 of it, but I can't sleep. And then, you know, 01:04:03.480 --> 01:04:08.380 I think like, We just need to have more human 01:04:08.380 --> 01:04:12.099 time talking with each other, with our fellow 01:04:12.099 --> 01:04:17.119 organizations, with funders, and continue to 01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:20.219 have these conversations. And yes, donate to 01:04:20.219 --> 01:04:24.039 Phonelytics, donate to Balanced. that the organizations 01:04:24.039 --> 01:04:26.780 that you give to see who's working together behind 01:04:26.780 --> 01:04:30.820 the scenes. One thing I will add, too, I think 01:04:30.820 --> 01:04:33.619 we were touching on it earlier on about the metrics 01:04:33.619 --> 01:04:37.519 that organizations have been providing. And one 01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:40.179 thing that we did, I feel like this is not for 01:04:40.179 --> 01:04:43.059 a tail end of a conversation, but one thing that 01:04:43.059 --> 01:04:46.619 we did that I thought was really great is during 01:04:46.619 --> 01:04:49.880 the pandemic when data was really hard to produce 01:04:49.880 --> 01:04:53.829 or we said that we were transparent and we said, 01:04:53.829 --> 01:04:55.570 you know what, we can't tell you the numbers 01:04:55.570 --> 01:04:58.690 right now, because we have no idea how to measure 01:04:58.690 --> 01:05:01.090 them at this juncture. But once we figure that 01:05:01.090 --> 01:05:04.610 out, we'll keep you in the loop. So being honest, 01:05:05.050 --> 01:05:08.369 being transparent, maintaining relationships, 01:05:08.369 --> 01:05:10.690 and we just got to continue to cheerlead for 01:05:10.690 --> 01:05:15.230 each other. I love it. Liz, Alice, Phenoletics 01:05:15.230 --> 01:05:20.460 and Balance are really lucky to have you. You 01:05:20.460 --> 01:05:24.300 are, of course, you're experts and truly true 01:05:24.300 --> 01:05:27.980 professionals. So yeah, really lucky to have 01:05:27.980 --> 01:05:31.440 you. And thank you. Thank you so much for having 01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:34.480 answered my questions and shared your insights 01:05:34.480 --> 01:05:39.800 and knowledge with everyone. Thank you everyone 01:05:39.800 --> 01:05:42.980 for listening. I kindly invite you to share this 01:05:42.980 --> 01:05:45.820 podcast with the vegans you know. Let's encourage 01:05:45.820 --> 01:05:49.780 more people to take action. Again, thank you 01:05:49.780 --> 01:05:52.820 so much for caring, and I will see you next Tuesday 01:05:52.820 --> 01:05:54.260 for a new episode.