He is back. The legendary Gary Yourofsky is back
from retirement after 11 years of silence to
sound the alarm on the dire lack of funding to
animal sanctuaries. More specifically, Sesha
Farm, a sanctuary he has volunteered for since
around 1995 and one of the oldest, if not the
oldest, vegan farm sanctuary in the world. You
are listening to The Vegan Report. My name is
Ryan and today I gave you an exclusive interview
with the man who has moved millions of hearts
to embrace veganism. We discussed the burnout
that led him to retirement, the behind the scenes
of the best speech you will ever hear. effective
altruism, and, as the man who reportedly veganized
8 % of Israel's population, his thoughts on the
mass exodus of Jewish vegan activists from the
movement. Support Sasha Farm now. Don't let them
sink. Visit the episode notes for a link to their
website. And thank you for tuning in every Tuesday
as we go from adventure to adventure covering
fascinating people and topics. Please share the
podcast with your fellow vegans. Your support
makes a real difference. uh told me that the
reason why they became vegan was because of you
and more specifically because of that famous
speech you know the most important speech you
will ever hear here um so it it is really wonderful
to have you on well again thanks and uh i'm amazed
that that speech had such a uh far reach i knew
it was a great speech though i don't want to
sound narcissistic because to me though It was
the only positive thing I've really given to
this planet. So I am proud of it. But I am blushing
when I hear about all the people around the world
that have gone vegan or become a better activist
because of my work. So I'm truly humbled by it.
Yeah, I had one guest describing herself as being
a Yurovsky vegan. Oh, that's cool. You know what
I say? I'm in Germany right now. I was in Frankfurt
and I'm in Cologne. And nearly everyone I'm running
into is vegan from me. I call him Gary Vegan.
So she saved the last name. Same thing, same
thing. So when I first heard the speech that
you have recently given, the first one in 11
years, I was really happy about it. I guess lots
of people were missing you. And I'm wondering
now that you're doing interviews, Are you back
from retirement? It appears I am back. I don't
know what the future holds. I don't foresee myself
giving presentations like I used to right now.
I'm feeling really comfortable and I'm being
drawn to the podcast world to give interviews
and to frankly talk about some old war stories,
talk about things I've went through. And I am
back to on behalf of Sasha farm. It's a place
I've been going to for in almost 30 years, and
they're really struggling now. Fundraising for
me is a totally different game, not my bailiwick.
It takes a special quality to do it, so I'm just
being blunt about it. Please send money, it helps
Asha Farm. I don't know how else to say it, but
they are struggling, and sanctuaries around the
world are struggling too right now. So I was
happy to give that speech. I felt a little choppy,
but that's to be expected after 11 years. It
was crazy because back in the day, especially
my main speech that everybody knows, it's a 70
-minute speech. It was all up here in my head.
There are no notes anymore. In fact, at that
time, I had different versions of that speech
in my head. There were five, 10, 15 different
paragraphs I could use at each juncture. I was
having a tough time memorizing the five -minute
speech, so how things change. But hey, I'm older.
You lose a step sometimes. Tom Brady lost a step
last year of his football career. Michael Jordan
lost a step. So I just have to accept that that
lost a step. But I but I still got the words.
I can still explain it. So yeah, we're gonna
flow with it. It was an amazing speech. I really
I felt touched by it. And I was so happy that
you brought up the issue of sanctuaries. And
we will definitely you know, cover that in this
conversation. But first, you know, you made that
decision to retire about 11 years ago, and I
thought it was a really wise decision to, you
know, be mindful of yourself and decide to stop
when it was time to stop. Do you have any advice
for the activists out there who are, you know,
just in burnout mode right now who are just need
maybe that permission to take a step back. I
was stressed out beyond belief. My brain had
melted. The last few years of giving lectures,
when the arguments did arise, I no longer understood
what we were arguing about. I was asking people
to stop stealing somebody else's baby, stop raping
somebody else, stop killing somebody else, stop
viewing somebody else as your property. And then
there was pushback as we all get and it just
didn't make sense anymore. I had been going so
hard at that time. I think it was 18 years in
the trenches. You know the things that I did
13 arrests civil disobedience direct action to
make liberation jail time 2660 lectures and mind
you I wasn't speaking to vegans I wasn't speaking
to crowds that were open -armed in fact all my
lectures Started out like this with people with
crossed arms. Oh boy. Here comes the crazy vegan.
I'll be gonna listen to this shit so I went into
every room hated and I took it for the animals.
I'll bear the brunt. I told him I'd give him
my life. And even though I'm still alive right
now, I died inside a long time ago. I never really
took much care of myself beyond the fact that
I was working out every day at the gym, and I
still do. And it's not that I don't like that,
but... It's people can be so superficial. I had
to stay extra fit to make sure the crowd would
look especially the guys Who would always come
up to me and say man, you're pretty big vegan
I don't know vegans could look that good like
in my head I'm going man I really have to get
up at five in the morning to work out just so
you'll listen to me more but I will and I did
But yeah, I was always the last person I thought
about so think about yourself and de -stress
I don't want you to stop though until you have
to I mean, push it to the end, but stress is
real. Stress can mess with your body. It can
do damage. We all know that. If I can just say
one more thing about the whole thinking of that.
A lot of people misunderstand me and misread
me. Oh, Gary's narcissistic. Everything's got
to be about him. When I did that make liberation
and I busted into that farm and opened up those
cages. The first time I thought about myself
was two years later, when the trial ended, they
found me guilty, put me in a cell, and they closed
the door. And I said, oh, Lord, what have I done?
Where am I? Holy shit. You're in jail, man. That
was the first time because it was always them
first. And we should always put the animals first.
They deserve it. They're the ones being abused
the most. So nothing was ever narcissistic that
I did. I just, I was a man of action. I couldn't
stop. But it is important to take care of yourself.
Do some more deep breathing, which is what I'm
doing nowadays, which is what I did before this
lecture, by the way. Lay down on the bed and
breathe for a half an hour. It's always tough
for me to breathe though. It's still hard for
me to relax and calm down, but it does wonders.
I feel a lot better right now. Yeah, try to decompress.
I don't know if everyone else has the crazy brain
that I have. The brain I have is a curse and
a blessing. The blessing is it came up with all
those wonderful speeches and all these great
arguments, but the curse was this brain would
not let me sleep at night. That's why I came
up with that stuff. As soon as I laid down, my
brain would put me in a mock debate. with Stephen
Colbert, with John Stewart, with Sean Hannity,
and my brain would say, well, what are you gonna
say when they say this? And they'd say, oh, I
just wanna sleep, wait, but they're gonna say
this, Gary, what are you gonna say? And then
I go, oh, I got something really good, okay,
I got it, I got it. Can I go to sleep now? And
then my brain would say, no, no, no, because
then they're gonna say this, and what are you
gonna say, so. Try to relax your brain somehow.
I wish, in fact, if somebody knows how, please
tell me, get ahold of me. I had insomnia. This
will probably freak a lot of people out. For
the last 25 years, and this will be my 29th year
of veganism, I've only slept about two hours
a night during that whole lecture tour when I
was on the road for 12 and a half years, two
hours a night. And mind you, I was rarely doing
one lecture a day. It was usually two, a lot
of times three, sometimes four, five, six, seven
talks in one day where I would start at seven
thirty in the morning for that early morning
class and I wouldn't finish until eight o 'clock
at night. Then I jump in the car and drive eight
hours to the next city to get ready for the morning
class at eight o 'clock. I couldn't stop. I didn't
want to stop. I take nothing back. Made a promise
to the animals a long time ago again that I give
my life for them and and and and I don't I don't
regret it But I do wish somehow I would have
taken better care of myself So just watch out
if you see signs of of stress on your body you
see inflammation Maybe your hands are hurting
your legs are hurting You can't relax. Take a
quick break. Take a week off do nothing It's
also hard for me though to really tell people
to stop because I don't want people to stop But
I'll make this deal with you and everyone else
everybody at least put in the 18 years hardcore
in the trenches that I put in and then you could
relax and take some time off but Push push it
till you can't push it anymore step back and
take a break and look after yourself Yeah, it
is um deceiving how, you know, we always see
are the videos of your speeches. We don't see,
you know, what's happening beyond that. We don't
see the pain. We don't see all the, you know,
tears, blood, sweat you put in the work. And
in those speeches, you look wonderful. Like you're
such a great communicator. I mean, I guess even
your detractors would uh given to that point
that you know you're amazing at communication
and if only we all had that skill you know maybe
we could advance the cause um but at least we
can share your videos we can share videos of
your speeches and just so you know it poured
out of me so easily because it touched my heart
i saw those animals i felt their pain and i couldn't
be silent If you ask me right now, you start
asking me questions. What about taxes? Are they
too high? What about this issue? I wouldn't know
what to say. I can't speak like that about anything
else. And all vegans are touched by the animals.
That's why we embrace this lifestyle. So speak
the same way, just to speak for them like you
would want to be spoken for if you were in their
position. Um, and just let it pour out and don't
be afraid to say things that people don't want
to hear. I think that's what separated me a lot
from others is don't be a politician. I think
I said it in the speech too. I don't say what
they need to hear, not what they want to hear.
You'd be surprised most of my professors were
not vegans. In fact, the majority of them were
meat eaters. And the comment that I got from
them was, man, I never heard anybody speak so
openly and honestly about every issue that was
asked, every question. I mean, this is what freaked
people out is I got questions that were radical.
Hey, do you support violence or do you support
breaking into a building and burning it down?
I gave them my honest answer, which a lot of
people don't want to hear, but hey, it's how
I felt. Why would I give your answer? It's my
answer. It's genuine. It's real. And it's okay
to disagree. You brought up my detractors a moment
ago, and I would like to say something to them
because it's okay to not agree with me on some
issues. In fact, don't agree with me 100 % of
the time. Because I don't believe in any ways.
You should not be agreeing with one person on
this planet 100 % of the time. But that doesn't
mean you can't be a supporter, a friend, or a
fan of that person. It means phrase it like,
hey, no, I don't like Gary's position now on
the human rights movement. But man, was he a
hell of a vegan lecturer. In fact, he turned
me vegan. This is what I find odd is a lot of
my detractors are Gary vegans. Like the guy that
showed you the light, you're mad at him now because
he won't take a certain position on some issue
that you feel strongly about. Well, hey, that's
your issue. You feel strongly about it. So it's
weird. I kind of went from really, really radical
and wanting to end fight, which I regret so much
these days. Honestly, I take back the infighting
and never accomplished anything People were always
gonna do things the way they wanted to do it.
So Nowadays, I'm actually a mediator. I'm trying
to explain and bring peace amongst vegans It's
hard to do. Humans seem to be an incorrigible
species when it comes to getting along, especially
with people who believe the same things they
believe. It's amazing to me that nobody can get
along because of one disagreement on what issue,
even though we agree, maybe 80%, 90 % of the
time, people are looking at the 10 % disagreement
and say, well, I can't be your friend anymore.
Nah, I don't like that. I don't like your stance
on that. There's so many different issues out
there. I mean, and it's not just one issue like
the Israeli -Palestinian issue. What about pro
-life, pro -choice? What about pro -gun, anti
-gun? How are we all going to always line up
the same on all these issues? But the truth is
we need to line up on the main issue, the important
issue, and that's animals don't deserve pain,
don't deserve suffering, they don't deserve to
be commodified, they deserve their freedom, life,
liberty, and happiness, just like humans do.
And that's what I chose to do, be a mouthpiece
for them, not for anyone else. Amen to all of
that. I mean, truly, in this podcast, I've welcomed
people from every horizon of life. I've welcomed
pro -life vegans, I've welcomed pro -choice vegans,
I've welcomed conservative vegans, radical left
-wing vegans, and I don't see where the problem
is. I really don't. People leave comments and
send me messages, but it doesn't connect. I feel
like we're all on the same team. We're team green.
We're team pro animals. Why would we not unite
despite our differences for that great cause?
If there was one cause on this earth that would...
you know, push us, inspire us to unite, it would
be the animal cause. I would think so too. And
it's, it's, it's kind of heartbreaking. I mean,
I was in Frankfurt doing that, that sanctuary
lecture that everybody just saw the first one.
And there were people that were trying to get
people not to join the fundraiser that I was
putting on for Sasha Farm because, oh, Gary said
this once and Gary did this once. Well, first
of all, none of that money went to me. So, technically,
I would understand if the fundraiser, hey, let's
give Gary some money for all the things he did.
Okay, I actually can see you not wanting to give
me money. I paid $800 of my own money on an airplane
ticket to get down there just so I could raise
a few thousand bucks for the sanctuary. It wasn't
for me. So again, can't you say, well, I didn't
like when Gary said this, but man, that money's
going to Sasha Farm and Sasha Farm really needs
it. They're in a bad state right now. So I'm
going to give that money, which they didn't do.
Please, by the way, if the detractors are listening.
Can you go to SashaFarm .org and give a donation
to them? I don't receive compensation from Sasha
Farm. I'm doing this out of the kindness of my
heart because I've been going there for 30 years
and I would simply die if they ever went under.
It would really break my heart. So please keep
that sanctuary alive. You could even make a note,
Gary sucks, but here's 100 bucks, okay? Honestly,
but again, can't we just get past the childish
behavior of disagreeing on one issue and then
not being somebody's friend anymore? Listen,
even your own partner, don't tell me that whoever
your partner is in life, you're in 100 % agreement.
Because if you're telling me this, I think you're
lying or they're lying to you to make you think
that they always agree. It can't happen. You
can't like the same music. You can't like the
same movies and the movie stars. You can't be
aligned on every single issue on the planet.
It can't happen. But what we can do is unite
on behalf of the animals and that's what we need
to do. They're the most abused, most oppressed,
most murdered. It's time to help them. I want
to focus on them the most. I completely agree
on that. I agree 100%. By the way, you can agree
on issues that I bring up 100%. But yeah, overall,
there's going to be something I say that you're
going to go, but whatever, just go, okay, move
on to the leg. I still can't get past this guy's
vegan lecture. And by the way, the most important
speech ever, I just want to clarify something.
I did not title that. Maybe people think I'm
narcissistic because I put that. Do you know
that I had been lecturing from 2002 full -time,
2002 to 2010 when that speech at Georgia Tech
was recorded and never released one? At that
time, I think there were about 1 ,500 lectures
because I I was only focused on the students
in every class. That was my focus. These 25 students,
these 150 students, these 300 students, that
was my goal. And I didn't want to share with
others because I was in the zone. So a student
that I want to give out a big shout out to right
now, Nathan Black, a Georgia Tech student, sends
me an email about two or three days before that
lecture and he says, Gary, I heard you speak
last year at Georgia Tech and you changed my
life. Could I come to your speech in a couple
days in Professor Klein's class? Could I record
it and put it on YouTube? He's like, yeah, I
don't care, whatever. And keep in mind, too,
I'm 54. I grew up without the internet. There
was no internet when I grew up. There were no
cell phones either. So that really didn't make
sense to me either. So I said, yeah, show up.
So he shows up before class. He wants to put
a microphone on me. I said, no, no, I don't know.
I'm not playing this game. We're not doing this
whole setup. Don't put lights and everything.
And trust me. When I start speaking, I speak
loud enough, you don't need a microphone. I'm
like Rob Halford, a Judas Priest, when I'm singing,
I don't need a microphone, or Pavarotti, when
I'm singing, take the microphone away. So Nathan
records it, and that was back when YouTube would
only allow 10 minutes maximum. So the first time
it was released, it was six or seven parts. Then
they eventually started letting you put out whatever
length you wanted. He titled that the most important
speech ever and then somebody else titled it
something else I can't I can't remember there.
There's another time maybe best speech ever or
something like that I'm actually a horrible at
coming up with titles. Not my specialty. I'm
great with speeches But professors would what
what what often asked me? What should I title
this? Oh, I don't know. There's no title It's
just a great speed. I don't I don't know what
to say call it Gary's ethical speech on veganism.
So that's what they would put on the curriculum.
They would show, they would actually show me
the page like a Gary's ethical speech on veganism.
That's good. So just want to say that most important
speech ever, not my title, although it very well,
very well might be. Yes, definitely. Just yesterday,
I was looking through the Instagram of George
Martin, who is such a big fan of yours. And he
was talking about how he used that speech to,
you know, promote veganism. And he did that with
a couple of guys who seemed not interested. But
then, you know, he shared that video and they
saved it on their phone. So, yeah, I mean, thank
you. Thank you for that speech. And thank you
for what you're. Yes. Going to say, oddly enough,
I'm supposed to interview with George on Thursday.
So you had brought him up. I was like, wow, what
a coincidence. Small world. Yes. Yes. I know
George, he appeared a few times on the podcast
and I really love him and appreciate him. And
thank you for what you're doing with session
forums. I would not You know there's no reality
where i would have heard about secha farm if
it was not for you there are so many sanctuaries
out there and you used your popularity to promote
this century this sanctuary since you know back
in 2015 i think i've watched videos of you back
in 2015 talking i recorded about six or seven
videos there but again i've been going there
since i went vegan in 96 And it has always been
my personal garden of Eden. It's a place where
I did decompress over the years, even though
I didn't do it enough. I went there and it was
this different planet. It was because I was seeing
animals how they should be living peacefully,
nobody taking anything from them. Nobody wanting
anything from them besides maybe a smooch or
a little pet. But it was so loving to see cows
and pigs and chickens and turkeys and the sheep
and the goats, everybody just happy. And why
can't it be like this? So again, it holds such
a deep space in my heart. I want to let everybody
know because when Dorothy passed away, Dorothy
ran that place wonderfully. The place would still
be fine if Dorothy was alive. Unfortunately,
her partner in life took over after. And I still
love you, Monty, even though he's angry with
me. But Monty, I don't understand what happened.
He started thinking people weren't respecting
him, but everybody adored him. I mean, him and
Dorothy created this paradise for 40 years. But
he started quarreling with people, and he asked
me to come on the board of directors about two
years ago, and I'm no longer on the board. I
don't like the meetings and the discussions.
I think people have heard me go off the meeting.
Let's have a meeting about the discussion and
discussion about the meeting. Then we'll debate
the meeting at the next discussion. I don't operate
like that. But I wanted to hear everybody's side.
I went and talked to the farm workers and Shara
Jones, who is the animal care manager right now.
and I talked to Monty and I got everybody's complaints
because remember I said I want to be a mediator
and I said I'm gonna bring peace here hold up
let me hear everybody's story and unfortunately
Monty was was micromanaging a little too much
and I say buddy I love you but you really need
to back off and and let the animal care manager
manage that's why you hired her she knows what
she's doing Shara Shara can do what she wants
to do and he just wouldn't stop and then he became
angry at me So this is also something I talked
about here. Disagreeing with me on one position,
all of a sudden we can't be friends. And he said,
I can't believe he didn't take my side. We're
friends. I said, well, if we're friends, and
we are, we were dear friends of 20 some odd years,
shouldn't I be allowed to tell my friend when
they're wrong? You're wrong. And I said, and
I was telling him to do what I did. You need
to retire. You're stressed out, man. You're stressed
out. Look at you lashing out at everybody. And
it's unwarranted. Retire. I'll come over every
morning after the gym. We'll smoke a joint. We'll
laugh. We'll talk about old times. That's just,
you know, anyways. The problem is he unfortunately
is demanding that we purchase the property and
it's 50 acres and it's a fair price. We check
with real estate agents, but it's $675 ,000 for
50 acres in Manchester, Michigan. We don't have
that kind of money. So we're behind the eight
ball until we pay money off We're not gonna make
it right now, and he took 250 ,000 out from the
coffers so that put us under a hundred thousand
and it cost 250 ,000 every year just to get by
so I'm looking for a big donor to come and save
the day Right now, be thrilled if somebody cut
the $425 ,000 check that we still owe money.
Be extra thrilled if they covered the $250 ,000
that we took out. But that's all we need is to
be covered for the purchase, and then we're okay.
Now, of course, we would like to have more money.
We got grand ideas. We want to build studios
so people can come and stay overnight, kind of
doing what Farm Sanctuary does, something like
that. And we want to upgrade. So more money needs
to come in. We'd be fine if we were just able
to pay Monty off for the purchase of the property.
And I just want to say again, I love you, Monty.
Please come on back. I don't understand why you
tossed me out and everybody else that you tossed
out. We all love you. But please help Sasha Farm
again. And again, not a fundraiser. I don't know
how else to say it. Just please help Sasha Farm.
I know fundraisers are probably watching and
listening going, He is a terrible fundraiser.
It's not my style. In fact, can I tell you a
funny story about fundraising? The universe was
good to me in many ways, bad to me in some other
ways too, but when it came to my lecture tour,
my activism universe was 100 % behind me. It
always brought me a wealthy donor to help me
travel. It's not cheap. I needed to pay for airfare,
hotels, rental cars, food, tolls. And somebody
always came around and got a hold of me and said,
wait a second, Gary, are you speaking in schools,
in classes? How can I help? I said, well, I could
use some money to help cover the cost. And I'd
like to live. And I'm a minimalist. I live meagerly.
So what I would ask for, and I'm open and honest
about it, I ask for 64 ,000 a year. and 32 was
to travel 32 so I can live and the universe always
brought me somebody but around 2006 I actually
was looking for somebody and the universe wasn't
right on time but came through but wasn't right
on time and I couldn't find anybody so I'm racking
my brain who can I reach out to so I had a friend
named Mitch who had a vegan fast food joint in
San Diego And he had gotten me a $5 ,000 donation
a couple years earlier. So I get ahold of Mitch
and say, hey, buddy, can you give me Rich's contact
info, the guy that gave $5 ,000? He said, yeah,
but why? I said, well, I'm going to ask him for
$64 ,000. He said, well, first of all, I'm amazed
he gave you $5 ,000. It's probably not going
to go that high. I said, well, would you mind
if I asked? He's your friend. He goes, no, go
ahead and ask him. So this is my email to Rich.
Paraphrasing, but almost verbatim. Hey, Rich,
it's Gary Yourofsky. You gave me 5 ,000 bucks
a couple years ago. I'm not even sure. I said,
thank you. Thank you. Would you mind giving me
64 ,000 this year? So I'm not a schmoozer. I
just straight to the point. He emails me back.
Would it be OK if we talked about this a little
more? Yeah, sure. I don't even know where you're
at. Where do you live? He says San Francisco.
I said, oh, next month I'm at St. Mary's College
in Mareaga. It's about 30 minutes, 60 minutes
from Frisco. And I said, well, why don't we go
out to lunch or dinner? He said, yeah, sounds
great. So we met at Cafe Gratitude. It's another
funny part to the story. And just so you know,
most of my activism has a comical aspect to it.
So I meet Rich at the restaurant, sit down. You
know, introduce each other, shake hands, and
he proceeds to tell me a story about some foie
gras that he had just eaten. I'm a little taken
aback, of course. And in my head, you got to
understand what's going on in my crazy brain.
I'm like, go off on him. Wait a second. Wait,
no. He's telling you a corny dad joke. Just wait
for the punch line. Don't yell at him, Gary.
He might give you money. Wait a second. He keeps
telling me. And it was horrible. And I sent it
back. I'm getting more confused because I'm not
hearing a joke format, and there's no punchline
that seems to be coming. And I'm an open guy.
I wear my heart on my sleeve. You know how I
feel. I wear it on my face. So he starts to see
my face becoming distraught. And he said, oh,
Karen, did you think I was vegan? Well, yeah.
Well, why are we here? Well, I'm not vegan. Confused?
He said. But I think you got the best speech
I've ever heard in my life and I think everybody
should hear it. I'm just not ready to become
vegan yet. I'll be there one day. Yes, I'll give
you money. What? So it was so bizarre what transpired.
And if people wondered why I did engage in infighting
and I was harsh on people, which I do regret,
it's because At that time, the animal rights
movement was turning me down to fund me, and
I could not understand. Oh, Gary, you're too
radical. I can't give you money. Too radical?
If I'm so radical, why are the professors bringing
me into their classrooms? You're making a judgment
and it's false. If I was too radical, I wouldn't
have 250 talks lined up this year. But no one
in the movement would give me money. but the
foie gras eater from San Francisco saved the
only vegan lecture tour on the planet, not only
for a year, for three years. Rich, thank you
so much for the $192 ,000 that you donated so
people could hear this lecture. In fact, he was
so kind on the way out. Eight months before the
year ended, he said, Hey, Gary, I don't think
I'm going to fund you after this year. I wanted
to give you a heads up so you can find something
else. And I even, I said, wow, man, no one even
gave me a warning. Well, I just got cut off instantly.
So you were really gracious. The only rule that
I had, it was, I said, Rich, because you're not
vegan, you have zero say in what I say, how I
say, where I say it and what I do. Because I
will take meat -eating money. I'd take money
from McDonald's if there were no strings attached,
just to be clear. So there's no strings attached
to this, and you're doing this out of the generosity
of your heart. I will accept it." He said, I
agree. This is all yours. And then I guess the
cute part was the following day, I had my lecture
at St. Mary's. I said, why don't you come and
check out one of the live talks? So he shows
up. It was one of those magical moments where
Every single student became vegan. And they all
stood up at the end of the class in a line to
shake my hand or give me a hug on the way out
and say something like, oh, Gary, you changed
my life. I can't believe I missed this. I didn't
know about this. I'm so sorry. And as Rich is
in the back, I'm kind of eyeballing him. And
I mouthed to him. And he's got video smiling.
And just so everybody knows, man, let's say on
average, I think I was doing 200 lectures every
year. It was amazing that I only had about 15
that turned into a Jerry Springer show. 15 out
of 200, 185 lectures where everybody took something
away. I'm not saying I turned all those people
vegan. What I'm saying is no arguments, no divisiveness.
Nothing but a pleasant Q &A asking for more information
So that ratio and and this is some of the people
in the movement got upset because of those 15
talks that by the way I didn't start the Jerry
Springer show I did finish it, but I was finishing
it on behalf of the animals I went into that
classroom willing to give everyone a chance I
mean when everybody started like this to at the
beginning of the talk I heard all the whispers
I had supersonic hearing back then and I heard
him ah man the fucking vegans here oh man we
all listen to vegan shit again i should have
brought a hamburger should have brought my deer
head but i never got mad because i remember when
i wasn't vegan i said you know what i was probably
saying the same dumb shit too so i never got
mad and it actually fired me up to become more
focused and to reach them i said i am gonna break
them down And Ryan, I got to tell you one of
the coolest things that I got to see, and a few
people along the way. Mind you, I was on the
road alone most of the time. And there were times
I wish other people were able to see it. But
I got to see change happen in front of my face.
And it started with the arms crossed, scowl on
their face, a little scowl. And then about 10
minutes in, your arms came undone. So look at
this. All right, they're starting to listen.
And then I always dropped a five -minute slaughterhouse
video about 12 to 15 minutes into the speech.
Now, that usually broke everybody down. I mean,
if you're alive and you have a conscience and
a heart, it would have to do something to you.
So now, though, a lot of times one arm went above
the head like this. Now, I talked to some friends
who were psychology majors and they always said,
you know, that's like a submissive position.
But they were actually saying, okay, all right,
I'm listening. And then they got harsh stuff
too. You heard the speech. It was eloquent, but
it was harsh. The truth is harsh. And I patterned
my activism style, my speaking style, after two
people, Malcolm X, early Malcolm X. in george
carlin the brilliant philosopher comedian so
my speech if you if you look at it again and
examine it's really a militant comedy rose because
i would push people to the edge especially after
that video because i was i was riled up mind
you i didn't leave the classroom when the video
was on i stood there and watched it so i had
to watch that video 2660 times myself but i did
it because it fired me up and it made me say
you've got to explain this to them on behalf
of these animals so After that, you know, it
was always something really harsh where I'd push
them right to the edge, but then I'd bring them
back with some humor. Like, you guys are bird
-ass fetishes, right? All you guys want to do
is eat something that comes out of a bird's ass,
eggs. You want to shove stuffing into a bird's
ass on Thanksgiving. You guys squeeze cow titties.
You engage in bestiality. You guys... So they
start giggling and laughing because there's truth
in sarcasm, which I learned from George Carlin.
So... I would push them to the edge and then
use some humor, like the comedy roast that I
actually love watching still to this day. It
was a back and forth where it really worked.
And it was natural. It wasn't, again, I didn't
plan much. I just did it. And then after I did
something or said something, then I analyzed
it. And that's some advice I'd give to people.
Don't sit at that that that board table too long.
You're planning too much and not doing do it
Figure it out as you go along and then figure
it out after what you can tighten up I talk about
a lot a lot of the success stories with my speeches
But I don't I'm not telling you about the things
I said that didn't work If I said something that
it did it didn't really work like I'm after it.
I'm saying Maybe I shouldn't have said it like
that. I was going to say it this way. That happened
to me, too. It's just over the years, I perfected
it down to that Georgia Tech speech. I'm like,
I got it now. This is the message. This will
resonate. People will listen. People will change.
And who knows how many people? I mean, it's got
to be a couple hundred thousand. Some people
claim it's millions. And if you think about the
domino effect, so I would get thousands of emails
that said something like, I saw you at my class
last week at University of Akron, changed my
life and I went home and I told my sister, my
brother, my mom, my dad, my boyfriend, my girlfriend,
my friends, they all became vegan or some of
them became, there's a domino effect through
that speech. Who knows how many? And then I want
to cover so much. I'm sorry, I'm so talkative
when people ask me about this stuff, but for
my detractors too, just keep that in mind that
if I was the one that may just see the light,
don't forget about that because you didn't like
something else I said, share the speech, pass
it on. You can share it with a disclaimer too.
By the way, the guy feels like this about this
issue, but man, he really laid it out there.
Share that speech still. It's amazing. It's almost
like even though I was retired for the last 10,
11 years, I was still pretty damn active. I'm
sitting on my couch smoking a joint, relaxing,
finally going, you know what? I think I still
turn a bunch of people vegan today. It's crazy.
I put in so much work that that work lives on.
It's stunning. It's stunning to me. And there
were times I didn't know if people were really
listening. I didn't know. Are people hearing
me in the movement? Are they sharing this? I
don't know. But that's why I went solo. I said,
I'm just going to do whatever I can do. And that's
a good piece of advice too. Sometimes, sometimes
you have to do it yourself. You want something
done right, you don't have to rely on other people.
I know it's nice to have people present, but
like early on in the 90s when I was doing protests,
sometimes I was by myself and I was getting front
page on the Detroit News, Detroit Free Press.
I was getting on the channel two, channel four,
channel seven news by myself or with my right
hand woman, Laura Rogers. I mean, it's nice to
have. 50, 100, maybe 1 ,000 people or 10 ,000.
Yeah, that'd be wonderful, but it's not a requirement
as long as you're out there sharing your soul,
spilling your soul to the people, talking like
the animals who want you to talk and saying the
right things. Learn your arguments, say it properly,
and you'd be surprised. You'd be surprised. Oh,
and for the detractors, actually, I was gonna
say, a lot of times they would email me. I listen
to Earthling Ed's speech and I listen to Joey
Carbstrong and I think they're way better than
you and they're gonna reach more people. As if
that was an insult. I hope, Ed, and I hope Joey,
and I hope Paul Beshear, and I hope Mia Rosenfeld,
and I hope all the people that I inspired. reach
more than me. Not an insult because the sign
of a good teacher is that they are proud when
their students become stronger, wiser, and more
effective than they are. I didn't change the
entire world. So I hope they do. You act like
I would be upset if all the animals were liberated
because of Paul and Joey and Ed? I'd be the first
ones to go up and give them a hug and put them
on my shoulder. We did it! You guys did it! I
might have started it, but thank you for finishing
it! So... Say what you want to say. I wish people
would just think a little deeper and understand
me a little more. And maybe they're going to
learn a little more about Gary the person and
not Gary the activist through this and through
all the upcoming podcasts. Because I do want
to share, I don't mind sharing some more personal
stuff that I really didn't share over the year.
And I hope listening to me talk now does make
you even rethink How come I'm calling Gary a
terrorist and a maniac? Are you afraid of me
right now? Do I sound like a maniac? No, not
at all. Paul Beshear once visited me in Michigan
and his comment was, you are the nicest misanthrope
I've ever seen in my life. People don't understand
being a misanthrope. I just don't like our species.
I think our species is a scourge. Individually.
I enjoy most people. At the gym I work out in,
back home, L .A. Fitness, in Royal Oak. You should
see me walk in the gym. I'm like, Adrian, what's
up? Hey, what's up, Nate? Hey, what's up, Mike?
Hey, Mr. Ed? I know everybody at the gym. They
know me. Hey, Gary, how you doing? I'm running
over and helping people. There's somebody that's
older that can't get the weights off. I'm like,
hey, let me get that for you. It's not like I'm,
because I'm a misanthrope. I'm tripping old people
and I'm throwing rocks at kids on a playground.
That's not what being a misanthrope is. Please
understand before you condemn. It just means
that our species, there's something wrong with
our species and I don't like it. And why should
I? After 29 years of seeing everything that I've
seen, And by the way, I'm probably older than
most of the people that are my detractors. I've
been around. I've seen it all. I went to rural
America. I've confronted people. I've seen too
much. And there's not much hope left in me these
days. Not trying to discourage or break people's
hearts. Again, my feelings. I don't know how
much of a difference that we can truly make because
our species is so selfish. and so stubborn. But
again, I hope everybody proves me wrong and says,
Gary, you know what, though, you might have been
right on a lot of things, but you were dead wrong.
And we got the animals their freedom. I hope
I'm 100 % on this issue. Well, I do appreciate
very much your bluntness. Thinking about it,
I think all of my friends are very blunt. And
I just love it. I love the honesty. you know,
trying to decipher what people are really thinking
is not, you know, I'm not really good at it.
So I want to have open conversations. And that's
what I value. And now I understand why I love
your speeches. Because I've watched hours of
George Carlin and definitely there is some of
that in your speeches. By the way, thanks for
getting it now. Everybody that not now if you
go and look back, especially the listing when
I do the listing of things. That's a George Carlin
thing. He's the best lister I've ever heard.
I'll run down this whole list. I'm like, I like
that. I'm going to start doing it. Even when
I say, cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, sheep,
and goats, that's a Carlin flow that I absolutely
love. And every bit of humor that I used, here's
some inside information. Before I said it, and
it was instant. That's how crazy my brain is.
I could analyze something within one second.
I'd say, would George think this is funny and
cute? and my brain would say hell yeah use that
or sometimes be like no he doesn't and i would
pass on it but george that's who i always went
to to know if i should be sarcastically truthful
in a certain situation yeah if only he was around
what i would give to go and watch one of his
shows um i want to get back quickly to the uh
sanctuaries issue and then one more question
for you So you mentioned in your last speech,
latest speech, how farmed sanctuaries are or
how there are people in the animal rights movement
that encourage others not to give to animal sanctuaries.
And I've seen that. I've experienced that. And
you're not the only we're not the only ones having
noticed that I found an article from Karen Davis,
who was the founder of United poultry concerns.
It's called our farmed animal sanctuaries at
risk. And she goes in depth, you know, talking
about this issue. Now, why he was a by the way,
she was a great war for the animals. Yeah, rest
yourself. Yes. And so I guess the question is,
why are they discouraging vegans to donate to
animal sanctuaries? So here's the issue as I
see it. So when I started doing lecturing full
time and deciding that education was the best
way, imagine there's a pie chart, as you should
put out whenever you're looking at an issue.
To me, the pie chart was 2 % education. and way
too much protesting, way too much lobbying, way
too much media interviews, and I fought like
hell to convince people that education needs
to be 80%, maybe 90%. I didn't mean 100 % because
I didn't want to lock everything else out. Everything
does have its place. It just needs to be in the
proper percentile. So a lot of people went...
that foreign education where they just want to
make it all education and then a little advertising,
which is strong and good. I would never get rid
of that little direct action. I think it's solid.
There's a lot of risks though involved in jail
time and who knows what can happen there. So
too many people. I think the term that is being
bandied about is effective altruism. I don't
find it to be effective nor altruistic because
we murder. Billions of animals every year and
you're telling me we can't take care of a couple
thousand that escaped a couple thousand made
it out of the houses of slaughter that we've
constructed all over this planet and There's
people going well. No man cows lived in there
20. That's 20 years worth of hay and medical
care now Again, like I said in the speech, they
deserve everything. I don't care how much it
costs. Are you kidding me? So people are not
looking at this clearly. Again, you can put most
of your investment into an education -based format.
Who are you talking to? I would recommend that.
But don't forget about the animals at the sanctuary.
Don't forget about not only Sasha Farm, but all
the other sanctuaries around the planet that
are struggling because people are pulling back
their funding. Start sending those 10s and 20s
to them. Start sending those 50s and 100s. They
need it the most. These animals deserve so much.
And if you feel otherwise, go to a sanctuary
one last time. You look that cow in the eye and
you tell that cow, I'm sorry, you can't have
my 20 bucks. You're too expensive. I couldn't
even fathom. I couldn't even get the words out
of my mouth looking at what we've done to their
species. We kill a billion cows on the planet,
there's 25 or 30 living at Sasha, and we can't
come up with the money to make sure they're okay,
they're safe, they got a nice place to stay.
I find it to be outrageous, which is why this
is what brought me back. This I couldn't take
it anymore. I kept hearing that the sanctuaries
are struggling. Everyone's pulling their funding
Nobody wants to help I can't I don't even get
it again. You can make it as the smaller portion
on the pie chart Don't forget about it. Don't
eliminate it. Nothing should be a hundred percent.
So education 80 to 90 and make sure there's sanctuaries,
make sure there's media interviews, make sure
there's advertising, which is essential, and
make sure those other things still have at least
a percentage in that pie chart. Definitely. And
I should have said that sooner, but I'm actually
a fundraiser by profession. You're probably jiggling
like this guy is the worst fundraiser I've ever
No, no, you're actually great at it. You're actually
great at it and oh I mean you're you're inspiring
and the thing about effective altruism is When
when does it get you know effective? Maybe an
organization won't convince lots of people uh,
you know, to become vegan or make that much of
an impact in their environment for a couple of
years, for five years, they, you know, they,
they build, they build themselves up and then,
you know, maybe they take off, but if you don't
give them that time to build themselves up to,
if you don't invest in, in that, then you know
how how are we going to move forward? And I do
believe that sanctuaries are excellent tools
to turn people vegan. I always say, you know,
the experience, give them the experience of becoming
vegan, bring them to a vegan festival, bring
them to a sanctuary, and let's do a tour of the
sanctuary. Those are amazing experiences that
will convince them to consider veganism. Think
about how many times most people have actually
ever Petted a chicken Turkey a cow or a pig if
you did you were probably a kid and you don't
even remember it anymore So, you know many people
I would bring locally in Michigan when I had
them on the edge almost there I said, you know
what? What are you doing Saturday? Cuz you're
coming with me. I want you to pet this pig and
look him right in the eye and tell me that you're
not going to become vegan and I brought people
there and that's all that was the final push
that they needed like oh my god I even brought
one guy there who didn't believe what when he
heard the animal noises he said I thought they
made that up just for cartoons that's how chickens
and turkeys really sound oh my god like we don't
even know these animals so We need these sanctuaries.
And I said it in the speech. I do want to be
clear. A lot of them are doing tours and doing
education based activism as part of it. And that's
fabulous. Anytime you can mix the two. That's
wonderful. But even if they aren't, those animals
still deserve everything. They still deserve
a happy place to stay just because of what we've
done to their species. We should be embarrassed.
We should be we should feel like shit for what
we've done to them. And we should want to do
everything on their behalf from here on out.
And it's not about us, you know, it's not about
what we get from this situation. It's really
all about them here. Okay, one last question
I really wanted to bring. And that is the anti
semitism that we have witnessed in the past few
uh, years now in the vegan community. Um, I found
an article attributing, uh, the fact that, um,
you turned about 8 % I think of the Israeli population
to veganism. The most vegan and friendly place
on the planet. I can't even understand that.
And that's how I understood, you know, and looked
at Israel, you know, since They went out of their
way to hear my speech. They weren't renting out.
When I first got there, I wasn't involved in
arranging the talks. I just told them, make sure
they're not vegans. Just get me some venues and
point me towards the stage and let me go. And
when I got there, like, okay, we rented out a
bar. That was my first section. I said, a bar?
What do you mean a bar? We rent out a bar and
we're going to do the lecture there. Who's going
to come to a bar? I get there. I literally had
to fight through the crowd to get to the stage.
220 people packed house. In fact, there were
300 people outside who couldn't get in. They
set up a screen in the streets. Non -vegans came
to hear the message, and people are getting upset
with Israel because of their issues that are
going on with Hamas. And let me explain something
about hostage -taking, which is why I'm really
opposed to the Palestinian side. I don't support
anybody who takes hostages, because think about
who takes hostages. Bank robbers, drug cartels,
domestic abusers, and Hamas. That's not a tactic.
I got news. If some radical animal rights person
went and took hostages, I wouldn't support that
either. That's not a valid tactic at all. And
let me throw this out there. Let's say, for argument's
sake, that I did decide to take hostages myself.
Let's say I went and kidnapped the wives of a
bunch of vivisectionists. Let's say I kidnapped
the husbands of a bunch of hunters. Let's say
I had these people, and I was threatening them,
and I was demanding something. Do you know all
it would take was for the opposition to go kill
one animal, shoot one rat in the head, and I'd
say, okay, wait, stop, stop, I'm sorry, I'm sorry,
okay, okay, coming out, hands up, everybody's
out. That's how much I love and care about the
animals. You'd only have to shoot one to make
me stop. Look what Hamas is doing to their own
people that they claim to care about. All they
have to do is release those hostages and everything
stops. And I got news for you. Things were actually
going pretty well. with Israel and Palestine
before the October 7th massacres. I believe 160
,000 to 200 ,000 Palestinians had work visas.
They were getting along pretty well. Of course,
these people have always quarreled with each
other. Leave it to humans. Nobody can get along.
Blacks and whites, Jews and Muslims, men and
women. It's not just them, everybody. Nobody
gets along. Black Republicans, I've noticed,
and black Democrats don't get along anymore.
They no longer share their blackness. because
they hate the politics so much. Vegans don't
get along, so don't act like this is some weird,
bizarre issue. This is a human issue. But things
were pretty well, and that action was outrageous.
Again, not a valid action, that they went and
shot people at a music festival. And by the way,
from what I hear, it was a liberal music festival.
I'd have to say most of those people were probably
on the side of the Palestinians and say, yes,
let's get this second state going. So the whole
thing is outrageous, first of all, that people
are on the wrong side. But as I stated earlier,
we can disagree. on issues. We can disagree on
pro -life, pro -choice. We can disagree on pro
-gun, anti -gun. I'm firmly on the side of Israel.
I think they're right. And I think if the hostages
were released, things would drastically change
for the Palestinians. But nobody should be blaming
anybody besides Hamas. This is them. And here's
something that I do want to point out, because
it's really bizarre. You see people, gay people
walking around with signs that says queers for
Hamas or queers for Palestinian. They're not
for queers. Why are you standing up for somebody
that radical Muslim nations are 100 % anti -gay,
100 % anti -trans, 100 % anti -woman, 100 % anti
-black. And then you have black People and trans
people and gay people and women standing up for
these people who won't stand up for you But you
can go to israel You can be publicly gay as long
as you want You can do a year -round pride fest
if you wanted to a year -round trans fest and
israel would welcome you openly So I don't understand
from that point of view why people wouldn't be
on Israel's side. Here's something else I look
at when I like to try to decide and figure out
which issues have the proper side. If Russia,
China, and North Korea are on one side, you can
pretty much take the other side. These also are
not nations that are liberal and open either.
I do believe Russia has criminalized gayness
or imprisoned gay people too. I don't understand
all these gay people standing up for a bunch
of people that would kill them if they had the
chance. And think about this for the Americans,
too. When Iran, if they ever get a nuclear weapon
and they decide to destroy the great Satan that
is America in their eyes, do you think there's
a bomb that's going to exclude the left -wing
people and the gay people and the trans people?
Everyone's going down. There's no way this regime
should be having a nuclear weapon. they cannot
be trusted with it. So just reexamine some issues
deeply and look at that Israeli thing a little
closer and realize which side actually has the
side of liberalism on their side because the
majority of all these people opposing them are
liberals, left -wingers. And just for the record,
I don't really side with liberalism or conservatism.
I see some value in both issues that they put
forth. That's something else back to what I said
earlier about agreeing with somebody 100 % of
the time. I find both sides to be ridiculous
when they're always agreeing with themselves.
Republicans are never wrong. Democrats are never
wrong. Get out of here. You guys got some things
that are right, some things that are wrong. They
got some. Get together, work it out and say,
you know what? You guys are really good on that
topic. We're really good on this topic. Why don't
we handle this? You handle that and work together.
But again, God forbid humans should ever work
together. We seem to be an incorrigible species
when it comes to unity and togetherness. Yeah,
weirdly enough, it's the most unpopular position
to be for unity. I don't understand it either.
But everyone's so worked up about everything.
As soon as somebody says something they don't
like, they forget about. And by the way, when
it comes to my detractors, to think about all
the speeches I gave, all the interviews I gave,
I guess it's probably fair to say I literally
spoke a million words. Maybe more but let's just
round it off in a million. So what there's there's
there's 5 ,000 words that I said that you did
like and you just eliminate the 900 ,000 died,
you know all the 900 ,000 words don't mean anything
to you anymore as those five dollars I can't
think I can't stand that five thousand words.
Let it go. Well, the way I see it is, you know
the rule of the games you know if you have a
position and you want others to adhere to your
position, then you should also allow counter
positions to be heard so that your position will
also be heard. And, you know, that's the market
of ideas. I mean, those were the understood rules
of the game a minute ago, and I feel like this
has changed. But going back to the. I want to
say one more thing, too. Yes. I don't like war.
Most people don't. I don't know anybody that
really does. Here's where I also stand on this
issue. Part of me doesn't even care right now
who's right or who's wrong. I want to know who's
going to have the courage to walk across that
line with their hands out or their arms open
and say, you know what? I'm sorry. Can we just
start over already? We've been going at it for
thousands of years. Can we just stop? That's
what I want to see. When are we going to apologize
to each other and live together and, of course,
bring the animals into this, too? Let's not forget
as people claim, oh, it's Israeli land. Oh, it's
Palestinian land. It's the animals' land. You
want to get technical from the animal rights
radical here? All land was stolen from the animals.
We're all living on stolen land. This was theirs.
We're all thieves. All of us. So, how deep do
you want to go into this? Because I'm still right
on this. It belongs to the animals. And we should
all be living on it peacefully. It's not one,
it's not the other. It should be everybody's.
Can't we just live in peace? But again, this
is what led to the stress. It was all this fighting.
Nobody gets along. And again, I went into those
classrooms. I didn't want to fight. Never did.
Never did wanted to teach as a man. I got something
new wait till you hear what I got to tell you
You're gonna get it and those that listen with
an open mind did get it The ones that didn't
never never gave me a chance never gave the message
a chance You know when I look at What this has
done, you know getting involved in this conflict
and this political talk We've lost so many vegan
activist Jews you know, they just decided to
go away and for good reasons, you know, to protect
themselves and their sanity and their safety.
But this is harming animals the most. You know,
this is funding that we have lost. This is intellect
that we have lost. All of that for a great cause.
Our forces have been depleted. We've lost warriors.
And again, this is why I say we need to focus
on the animals anyway. Here's something I want
you to think about to prove my point a little
more. I actually believe now that human rights
is the main impediment to the advancement of
animal rights. Why? Because when you talk about
humans, guess who doesn't get talked about? We
don't talk about cows having their babies stolen,
pigs having their testicles ripped out, the baby
ones. We don't talk about dehorning. We don't
talk about you know, all this cruelty in the
houses of slaughtering and slicing their heads
off. That needs to be the focus because if you
look at the human rights side, you ever hear
the human rights people speaking about cows having
their babies stolen on dairy farms? Of course
not. Why? Because then you don't get to talk
about humans. So why are you giving something
to a group of people that never give it back?
I get right and wrong. I get injustice. I know
humans deserve life and liberty and happiness.
But the animals deserve it more and need it more.
They're the ones being forgotten about, and we
need to focus on them. I think there was a big,
huge Pride protest yesterday in Budapest. I mean,
I saw a photo. It must have been 100 ,000 people
came out. Show me some signs about people who
came out for Pride Fest that we're talking about
what the animals were going through. But yeah,
we got vegans at vegan protests, at animal rights
protests, holding up signs, free Palestine or
gay rights or trans rights. What? They don't
do it for us. Stop doing it for them. And it's
not the noble route we are being taken advantage
of by the human rights people. They're playing
us. Stop. This is why. And if you look at my
old speeches, I actually did talk about racism,
sexism, heterosexism. I made examples. I've talked
about, and over the years, I started seeing that
they were never doing it for the animals. And
I said, no, why do we keep helping them out?
Why do we keep speaking out for their causes,
but they won't help ours? And I think I did,
I did a video when COVID came out where I talked
about if we ever sat down at the table of peace,
every issue, do you know who would not be represented?
The animals, because You couldn't sit at that
table of peace and say you were opposed to gay
marriage You'd be you'd be tossed out But you
can sit there with with cow skin shoes You can
sit there and if the meeting went on long enough,
you could bring a hamburger and eat it Look how
they are playing us and ignoring the worst form
of injustice on this planet I want to ask all
the vegans and all the animal rights people Keep
your eyes on the prize focus on the animals and
the animals only This is where your voice is
needed You know, I started this podcast at first
I wanted to shed light on social issues that
you know deserved more attention and and then
I thought What am i doing why am i not using
my communication skills to focus on animals if
i'm not the one doing that who else you know
all of those issues i'm going to tackle in my
podcast the social issues. They have like so
many organizations and funding and people behind
them even though you know they're struggling
but not struggling as much as the animal cause
and. I can't just, you know, I need to be the
one who prioritized this cause. If I'm not, then
who else? I agree wholeheartedly, my man. Well
said. Well said. So Gary, I want to be respectful
of your time. We are actually getting quite hungry.
So perfect. Thank you for your time. So once
again, thank you so much as, as this movement
is maybe at its weakest point. We see you come
back, and I will take that as a good omen. I
do think that you're going to do a lot more good.
And thank you. Thank you so much for all of your
good work for all of these years. Thank you for
what you're doing for Sasha form for your speeches,
and for having accepted my invitation. Thank
you so much for having me on. Keep in mind SashaFarm
.org and you are a wonderful speaker. This was
a pleasure. Anytime you want me back, man, we
can set this up again. End of the year sometime.
I really enjoyed this and there's always a lot
more to talk about. Keep in mind I got war stories
that nobody knows about crazy things. So you
let me know, Ryan, whenever. I appreciate it
and thank you very much. Definitely, you are
welcome and I will take you on this offer. I'm
not afraid. Be ready though, they're crazy stories.
They're not listening to it. They're not like,
oh, everybody, everybody fawned and went vegan
and said, oh, you're the greatest. I got crazy
cop confrontations when I was radical in the
diet. They're just insane things as I trudge
through the path of activism to find my way into
the classroom. I did a lot of crazy things. And
always with a comical aspect too. I love those
stories. I live for them. I have the ALF book.
What is it called? I forget the name, but the
completion of all of those stunts they've done.
And I actually recorded two episodes with Dr.
Vlasak about the ALF action. So yeah, this podcast
is open to those stories. Jerry's one of my boys.
I love you, Jerry. I've known him for a long
time. I got a crazy story with Jerry. Next time,
remind me to tell you about the craziest thing.
Maybe it was me and Jerry. Insane. Definitely.
I love Jerry. So once again, thank you so much,
Kerry. Thank you everyone for listening. I kindly
invite you to share this podcast with the vegans
you know. Let's encourage more people to take
action. Again, thank you so much for caring and
I will see you next Tuesday for a new episode.