WEBVTT 00:00:00.590 --> 00:00:05.309 This is an intervention. Vegan burnouts are real, 00:00:05.710 --> 00:00:09.869 and I see it all around me, constantly. Stress 00:00:09.869 --> 00:00:13.509 and anxiety from the carnist around you, boyfriend, 00:00:13.830 --> 00:00:17.530 girlfriend, in -laws, mom and dad, even your 00:00:17.530 --> 00:00:21.449 own children. Constant excruciating reminders 00:00:21.449 --> 00:00:25.410 of the violence of animal cruelty from movies, 00:00:25.750 --> 00:00:30.199 TV series, ads, your social media feed. And as 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:33.939 an activist, which is a position we are all forced 00:00:33.939 --> 00:00:37.600 upon at some point, it is a whole other level 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:41.539 of hell, hearing the same well -known arguments 00:00:41.539 --> 00:00:44.979 again and again, watching painfully horrific 00:00:44.979 --> 00:00:48.679 slaughterhouse footage, saving and caring for 00:00:48.679 --> 00:00:53.119 animals despite the financial strains, and this 00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:57.759 is the least of it. Veganism is not only a fight 00:00:57.759 --> 00:01:01.880 for the animals, it is also a fight for your 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:06.359 sanity. And in my humble opinion, one of the 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:10.319 most powerful weapon to guard your peace of mind 00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:14.400 is meditation, the subject of today's episode. 00:01:15.219 --> 00:01:18.120 To discuss this topic, I have with me someone 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:22.000 who has dedicated his whole life to the practice 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:26.319 and teaching of meditation. a Buddhist monk called 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:30.519 Bhante Sapi. In addition to his passion for meditation, 00:01:31.060 --> 00:01:34.640 Bhante is vegan and a long -time defender of 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:38.239 the animal cause. In fact, he is the president 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:41.319 of the organization Dharma Voices for Animals, 00:01:41.879 --> 00:01:46.140 which we covered in previous episodes. Now, Bhante 00:01:46.140 --> 00:01:49.680 has recently published a book called The Mind 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:53.719 Workout, which is your chance to launch your 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:57.769 meditation. practice. This book is the result 00:01:57.769 --> 00:02:02.310 of decades of experience, meditating and it has 00:02:02.310 --> 00:02:05.989 the ambition to offer you the life of joy and 00:02:05.989 --> 00:02:10.490 happiness you deserve. Visit the episode notes 00:02:10.490 --> 00:02:15.449 for more details. Also, if you are experiencing 00:02:15.449 --> 00:02:19.550 immense distress, please take this episode as 00:02:19.550 --> 00:02:25.539 your cue to open up about your pain. Don't wait 00:02:25.539 --> 00:02:30.840 visit the episode notes and click on find a helpline 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:34.639 and Of course if you want to support my reporting 00:02:34.639 --> 00:02:38.419 of the vegan world including the silent vegan 00:02:38.419 --> 00:02:42.479 burnout crisis Then please share this episode 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:50.199 with your fellow vegans How to interest people 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:54.159 in investing in their happiness That's the first 00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:58.659 question that came to mind because, yes, the 00:02:58.659 --> 00:03:02.120 mind workout meditation, it's the solution. But 00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:07.120 then how to motivate people to do the meditation, 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:11.840 to invest in their happiness. And I made a short 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:18.219 list of behaviors I've witnessed from people. 00:03:18.360 --> 00:03:22.180 Some think that they don't deserve to be happy. 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:28.020 There's a lot of guilt around. Some think they 00:03:28.020 --> 00:03:32.539 are cursed. I've heard that a lot from people, 00:03:32.659 --> 00:03:35.379 you know, it's just the way my life is. My life 00:03:35.379 --> 00:03:39.840 is a tragedy and they've kind of normalized the 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:45.639 pain. Some are addicted to their pain and the 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:49.669 obvious example is anger. with anger, you know, 00:03:49.669 --> 00:03:53.490 there's this rush of adrenaline, and it's an 00:03:53.490 --> 00:03:57.129 intense emotion. So I've seen lots of people, 00:03:57.129 --> 00:04:01.090 you know, being addicted to that anger. And maybe 00:04:01.090 --> 00:04:05.629 one last for some, this pain becomes an identity. 00:04:06.189 --> 00:04:11.210 And, you know, it's often even tied to your cultural 00:04:11.210 --> 00:04:16.829 identity, like I was thinking of the different 00:04:18.170 --> 00:04:22.069 cliche, we heard, we hear about Irish families 00:04:22.069 --> 00:04:25.389 or things like that. You know, the, the addiction 00:04:25.389 --> 00:04:28.769 to alcohol and the hurtful comments from the 00:04:28.769 --> 00:04:33.110 family. Um, like it's again, maybe it's, it ties 00:04:33.110 --> 00:04:36.449 back to the normalization of that pain, but so, 00:04:36.810 --> 00:04:41.610 you know, what do you make of all of that? Well, 00:04:41.930 --> 00:04:45.449 first of all, uh, if we look at what is happiness 00:04:45.449 --> 00:04:52.209 is happiness is the reaction happiness and unhappiness 00:04:52.209 --> 00:04:57.569 both are reactions there we choose to have a 00:04:57.569 --> 00:05:03.550 reaction of happiness and we are trying to avoid 00:05:03.550 --> 00:05:10.750 the reaction of unhappiness and to be happy what 00:05:10.750 --> 00:05:15.569 we do we are trying to bring something to make 00:05:15.569 --> 00:05:21.470 us happy Now therefore we want outside world 00:05:21.470 --> 00:05:24.209 to make us happy, our family to make us happy. 00:05:25.750 --> 00:05:28.569 And people buy house, they think then they'll 00:05:28.569 --> 00:05:34.529 be happy by having a new house. But unfortunately 00:05:34.529 --> 00:05:41.350 that excitement will go, will last, will not 00:05:41.350 --> 00:05:45.720 last longer. so once when you get familiar with 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:49.759 it then you need something else to bring happiness 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:56.939 because you cannot be excited any longer but 00:05:56.939 --> 00:06:00.259 wise people when somebody is wise that person 00:06:00.259 --> 00:06:05.800 is looking for internal happiness internal happiness 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:11.899 is actually beyond happiness which is come from 00:06:11.899 --> 00:06:19.209 wisdom But you don't have to be wise to be happy 00:06:19.209 --> 00:06:23.589 with materialistic things. That's easy happiness 00:06:23.589 --> 00:06:26.449 people are looking for. Even animals can be happy 00:06:26.449 --> 00:06:32.470 with the same same situations. So therefore we 00:06:32.470 --> 00:06:38.170 are trying to make us happy by providing something. 00:06:39.050 --> 00:06:43.439 But unfortunately that happiness does not long 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:49.240 last longer. That's the reality of happiness. 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:53.980 Now then you had then you asked a different question 00:06:53.980 --> 00:06:58.300 like about habits and and addictions and and 00:06:58.300 --> 00:07:03.600 all of those. That's about our emotional behaviors 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:10.279 and our lifestyles. You know, every everything 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:18.699 we do can create a habit like waking up early 00:07:18.699 --> 00:07:23.600 morning or we have a lot of habits the lifestyle 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:26.959 we follow with the habit even the food you eat 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:32.819 it's a habit and so many things but it is not 00:07:32.819 --> 00:07:35.240 really who we are because that's what we have 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:40.779 trained to ourselves And yes, you can be addicted 00:07:40.779 --> 00:07:43.459 to your emotions and you can be addicted to your 00:07:43.459 --> 00:07:45.839 feelings. What happened? Addiction means you 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:49.779 seek it. Your physical body is looking for it. 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:54.680 And then you get addicted to that. Like anger 00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:59.019 can be a good addiction, frustration, even fear, 00:07:59.879 --> 00:08:03.959 even anxiety. Because when it becomes addiction, 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:07.660 because your body is seeking that hormones, and 00:08:07.660 --> 00:08:10.819 hormone produced by your body but it's influenced 00:08:10.819 --> 00:08:16.500 by your mind therefore if you have a friendly 00:08:16.500 --> 00:08:19.980 mind that friendly mind influence your body to 00:08:19.980 --> 00:08:25.379 have or produce friendly chemicals if you have 00:08:25.379 --> 00:08:32.080 an unfriendly mind then unfriendly mind will 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:35.399 influence your body to have unfriendly chemical 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:41.000 When people have stressful time that is stressful 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:45.740 time create painful body You know your shoulder 00:08:45.740 --> 00:08:48.879 get Shoulder aches and back aches and all of 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:51.000 those things, but if you are happy you don't 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:53.500 get a shoulder aches You know you you you you 00:08:53.500 --> 00:08:56.120 will not call. Oh, I'm so happy right now That's 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:59.360 why now my my back is tight or my shoulder is 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:02.019 tight because I'm happy No, you don't say that 00:09:02.850 --> 00:09:05.529 Your back get tight. I know your shoulder get 00:09:05.529 --> 00:09:07.289 tight because you are unhappy. You are tired 00:09:07.289 --> 00:09:12.389 and you are stressful and But what we forget 00:09:12.389 --> 00:09:18.049 is our mind influence our body to create I mean 00:09:18.049 --> 00:09:24.970 produce certain hormones or Some chemicals which 00:09:24.970 --> 00:09:29.470 can be either friendly or unfriendly Even though 00:09:29.470 --> 00:09:33.549 we look for friendly chemicals And you don't 00:09:33.549 --> 00:09:36.370 have a choice whatever the reactions you have 00:09:36.370 --> 00:09:41.429 created it by itself This is that's a situation 00:09:41.429 --> 00:09:45.169 going back to the original question happiness 00:09:45.169 --> 00:09:52.110 is the reaction I I like the way you describe 00:09:52.110 --> 00:09:57.250 the mind as being friendly or not because I often 00:09:57.250 --> 00:10:00.929 feel this way that looking at people and looking 00:10:00.929 --> 00:10:04.889 at myself that, um, and you do mention it in 00:10:04.889 --> 00:10:09.509 the book that, um, you know, sometimes your worst 00:10:09.509 --> 00:10:12.830 enemy is yourself. You're sabotaging yourself. 00:10:13.529 --> 00:10:16.070 You're haunting yourself. You're just hurting 00:10:16.070 --> 00:10:22.549 yourself. And I guess the real challenge is how 00:10:22.750 --> 00:10:26.809 to be framed yourself to make an ally out of 00:10:26.809 --> 00:10:33.309 yourself. Is that a good way to summarize, to 00:10:33.309 --> 00:10:39.549 define meditation? Well, the summarizing meditation 00:10:39.549 --> 00:10:45.909 is the title of the book, the mind workout. Now, 00:10:45.909 --> 00:10:57.259 if somebody asked, What is mind? Then I would 00:10:57.259 --> 00:11:02.700 say everybody have a mind. But it is your mind 00:11:02.700 --> 00:11:07.019 not somebody else mind. You are responsible for 00:11:07.019 --> 00:11:14.200 your own mind. And if you have a friendly and 00:11:14.200 --> 00:11:19.419 happy mind that's what you have create with yourself. 00:11:20.809 --> 00:11:23.970 But if you have unfriendly mind that unfriendly 00:11:23.970 --> 00:11:29.070 mind lead you to be unfriendly person But this 00:11:29.070 --> 00:11:33.389 workout is doing workout means You know think 00:11:33.389 --> 00:11:35.169 about the physical workout with the physical 00:11:35.169 --> 00:11:39.190 workout you so I have mentioned that in the book 00:11:39.190 --> 00:11:42.710 and physically in the physical workout you shape 00:11:42.710 --> 00:11:46.570 your body and you keep your body healthy and 00:11:46.570 --> 00:11:53.289 The same way when you don't to work out if you 00:11:53.289 --> 00:11:56.049 just consuming food what happened and you know 00:11:56.049 --> 00:11:59.149 you will become very unhealthy person only if 00:11:59.149 --> 00:12:03.830 you look for tasty food or the junk food makes 00:12:03.830 --> 00:12:08.070 your body unhealthy but we are looking for our 00:12:08.070 --> 00:12:10.850 mind we are for our mind we look for junk food 00:12:10.850 --> 00:12:16.570 and you are trying to bring satisfaction through 00:12:16.570 --> 00:12:20.259 easy ways we are trying to consume that more 00:12:20.259 --> 00:12:26.740 and more because we will never fully satisfied 00:12:26.740 --> 00:12:32.600 ever with any experience in our life we are looking 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:36.379 we are looking way of we are looking a pleasure 00:12:36.379 --> 00:12:40.120 to feed us or support our mind to be satisfied 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:44.340 do you know anybody who would say now I am completely 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:47.250 happy with my life I don't need anything else 00:12:47.250 --> 00:12:52.169 or anymore. No, if somebody say I am happy that 00:12:52.169 --> 00:12:55.149 person is looking more and more that same happiness 00:12:55.149 --> 00:12:59.350 and if you if you happen to be a good restaurant 00:12:59.350 --> 00:13:01.690 where say oh so meal is wonderful then next time 00:13:01.690 --> 00:13:03.470 you want to come to the next same restaurant 00:13:03.470 --> 00:13:08.970 because it was nice last time then you compare 00:13:08.970 --> 00:13:12.429 with the with that day maybe it's not good last 00:13:12.429 --> 00:13:14.590 last time or you would say this time is better. 00:13:15.899 --> 00:13:20.460 And what's happened, so satisfaction does not 00:13:20.460 --> 00:13:25.220 last longer. So that's what we call as happiness. 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:35.039 Now, mind is not a physical thing, but mind is 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:42.500 you. Your nature is your mind. If somebody asks 00:13:42.500 --> 00:13:45.559 you, who are you? then you are your mind not 00:13:45.559 --> 00:13:50.980 your body because your bodies keep changing it's 00:13:50.980 --> 00:13:55.259 not yours the good example is as soon as now 00:13:55.259 --> 00:13:58.139 think about anything on your body you what you 00:13:58.139 --> 00:14:01.080 call it yours as long as it is attached to your 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:04.519 body as soon as your hair disconnect from your 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:08.879 body it become garbage you don't like it as long 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:11.320 as even your fingernails disconnect your body 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:17.470 it's become yucky or it's become garbage. Even 00:14:17.470 --> 00:14:23.250 the piece of skin, it becomes an ugly thing. 00:14:24.370 --> 00:14:27.289 As long as it is attached to your body, you claim 00:14:27.289 --> 00:14:34.230 it as yours. What about your mind? We have memories. 00:14:34.629 --> 00:14:38.789 Where does memory exist? It's in your mind. all 00:14:38.789 --> 00:14:41.750 the behaviors, the nature, the quality. When 00:14:41.750 --> 00:14:48.470 you say you love somebody, to who you love? For 00:14:48.470 --> 00:14:51.629 that body or for the person inside the body? 00:14:53.009 --> 00:14:55.610 The qualities that person has, the things that 00:14:55.610 --> 00:14:59.669 person has done. So when you call you love somebody, 00:14:59.789 --> 00:15:04.919 do you love that somebody's mind? Therefore without 00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:07.779 saying that word, we are associating with the 00:15:07.779 --> 00:15:14.799 mind. But we do not know how to make ourselves 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:20.340 better or healthier or stronger. The mind workout 00:15:20.340 --> 00:15:27.480 offers so many ways and tools to know yourself, 00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:33.330 know your mind. and find the person who you want 00:15:33.330 --> 00:15:37.909 to be with you. Yes, I think the title of the 00:15:37.909 --> 00:15:40.730 book is genius. I think that, you know, when 00:15:40.730 --> 00:15:45.389 you say meditation, people already have so many 00:15:45.389 --> 00:15:50.909 attached ideas of what it is. But if you say 00:15:50.909 --> 00:15:56.730 the mind workout, you know, like, quickly, they 00:15:56.730 --> 00:15:59.159 know what you're talking about, making your mind 00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:02.480 healthier, like you would do with the body and 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:07.240 having a discipline and investing in that discipline. 00:16:07.659 --> 00:16:12.019 You know, for the people listening and hearing 00:16:12.019 --> 00:16:14.700 you talk about meditation and the mind and all 00:16:14.700 --> 00:16:20.759 of that, they might think, you know, is this, 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:26.299 do I need to be a Buddhist? to adopt those practices, 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:30.059 to adopt this perspective on life. Is this, you 00:16:30.059 --> 00:16:34.000 know, compatible with my way of life or my religion 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:38.100 or my way of interacting with the world? What 00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:40.419 do you make of that is, you know, do you need 00:16:40.419 --> 00:16:44.539 to be Buddhist to meditate basically? Thank you 00:16:44.539 --> 00:16:47.159 for the question. So now, first of all, let's 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:50.419 find out what, what is, what's the meaning of 00:16:50.419 --> 00:16:57.309 being Buddhist? Now being Buddhist means somebody, 00:16:57.330 --> 00:17:01.970 somebody who's practicing to become more wise. 00:17:04.490 --> 00:17:08.329 And you, you, you do not a follower of somebody 00:17:08.329 --> 00:17:12.130 else even for Buddha. You're not a follower, 00:17:12.130 --> 00:17:17.269 but you are continuously helping you to improve 00:17:17.269 --> 00:17:19.930 yourself with your qualities. That's the meaning 00:17:19.930 --> 00:17:23.619 of being Buddhist. one who's seeking wisdom. 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:28.960 That's a clear, direct translation of the meaning 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:33.160 of the Buddhist, being Buddhist. In that way, 00:17:34.140 --> 00:17:37.859 you can have another religion and same time you 00:17:37.859 --> 00:17:42.319 can be Buddhist. As long as you are seeking wisdom, 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:48.019 as long as you are reflecting yourself and improving 00:17:48.019 --> 00:17:54.700 yourself, you are being Buddhist. So, who can 00:17:54.700 --> 00:17:57.619 practice meditation? Any human being can practice 00:17:57.619 --> 00:18:01.519 meditation. And anybody who practices meditation 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:07.180 will have the same result, will have the same 00:18:07.180 --> 00:18:10.500 benefit of practicing meditation. Meditation 00:18:10.500 --> 00:18:14.339 does not belong to any religion or any philosophy. 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:19.319 But meditation is subject to everybody who has 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:26.779 a mind. So therefore anybody can practice meditation 00:18:26.779 --> 00:18:30.440 regardless. What's the culture? What's religion? 00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:37.079 Yes. That was my next question. What are the 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:40.859 benefits of meditation? What is the carrot here 00:18:40.859 --> 00:18:47.599 and why should we consider it? Well, there are 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:51.059 a few things and I will start from the very beginning. 00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:58.660 Meditation helps you to cultivate or develop 00:18:58.660 --> 00:19:02.240 your awareness, awareness of present moment, 00:19:02.859 --> 00:19:09.119 present experience that gives you clarity and 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:13.519 also when you practice more meditation that help 00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:19.289 you to have self -reflection. You are learning 00:19:19.289 --> 00:19:22.470 to reflect yourself or seeing yourself from outside 00:19:22.470 --> 00:19:27.009 of you In the different way that help you to 00:19:27.009 --> 00:19:32.130 get to know yourself more As a meditator anybody 00:19:32.130 --> 00:19:35.529 become a happier person permanent happy person 00:19:35.529 --> 00:19:40.950 and well -satisfied person and Somebody would 00:19:40.950 --> 00:19:43.829 have clear understanding about him or herself 00:19:43.829 --> 00:19:47.390 by knowing who I am or who that person is by 00:19:47.390 --> 00:19:50.150 knowing you, you would know easily what other 00:19:50.150 --> 00:19:53.529 people are doing and you will get to know others 00:19:53.529 --> 00:19:59.990 better too. So ultimately the meditator can be 00:19:59.990 --> 00:20:05.529 healthier with their mind happier and their actions 00:20:05.529 --> 00:20:08.990 and their behavior will be very friendly and 00:20:08.990 --> 00:20:14.069 likable by others and most people find that they 00:20:14.069 --> 00:20:19.680 can sleep well. Even you can dive happily, live 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:22.859 longer, live healthier, so many benefits are 00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:29.099 there. So therefore, there are so many avenues 00:20:29.099 --> 00:20:32.380 even people coming into meditation, those who 00:20:32.380 --> 00:20:36.900 look for those avenues. In our classes, you know, 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.480 so I lead meditation classes, weekly classes, 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:43.440 and tomorrow I started another retreat. Retreats 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:46.839 are, I'm conducting retreats. Those people who 00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:49.000 come to those classes or retreats, they are not 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:52.200 traditionally Buddhist. But I would say they 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:54.940 are open thinkers. They are brave because they 00:20:54.940 --> 00:20:58.079 are willing to see themselves. Then they take 00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:02.779 time to come and practice meditation. I see a 00:21:02.779 --> 00:21:06.980 lot of aha moments in people's life by knowing 00:21:06.980 --> 00:21:09.940 themselves, by seeing themselves through the 00:21:09.940 --> 00:21:17.710 practice. And also I would say to practice meditation 00:21:17.710 --> 00:21:19.849 or have a retreat, you have to be a committed 00:21:19.849 --> 00:21:24.630 person, committed to yourself, committed for 00:21:24.630 --> 00:21:28.930 well -being of yourself. But if you are a good 00:21:28.930 --> 00:21:34.470 person, a happy person and a joyful person, that 00:21:34.470 --> 00:21:38.130 is what you have to share with others. If you 00:21:38.130 --> 00:21:41.890 love your family, then practice meditation, because 00:21:41.890 --> 00:21:46.390 then they will have a good person to work with 00:21:46.390 --> 00:21:51.730 but if you are unhappy or difficult person to 00:21:51.730 --> 00:21:53.809 deal with then that's the person your family 00:21:53.809 --> 00:21:59.490 has to deal with and let me tell you since you 00:21:59.490 --> 00:22:04.170 asked this question another example several years 00:22:04.170 --> 00:22:09.569 ago I went to a pharmacy with another friend 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:16.079 Then a young girl walked into me and asked me, 00:22:16.539 --> 00:22:19.440 are you the Bante? I said, yeah, do you know 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:24.299 me? And then she said, well, I have seen your 00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:28.859 pictures. That's how I recognized you. I was 00:22:28.859 --> 00:22:34.960 looking to see you one day and to thank you for 00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:41.089 giving us a better mother. Then I got confused. 00:22:41.109 --> 00:22:45.029 I do what I talk about tell me more she said 00:22:45.029 --> 00:22:49.430 Her mother is coming to one of my weekly meditation 00:22:49.430 --> 00:22:53.170 class now she and her sister like her mother 00:22:53.170 --> 00:22:56.230 very much because in about six months and she's 00:22:56.230 --> 00:22:59.789 very happy a person joyful mother and they are 00:22:59.789 --> 00:23:02.970 having wonderful time with the mother and Then 00:23:02.970 --> 00:23:05.549 they think the meditation is really helping mother 00:23:05.549 --> 00:23:08.430 to be a good listener and good support your mother 00:23:10.579 --> 00:23:15.599 And then she said, we wake up Saturday morning 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:17.640 to go to meditation class because we want her 00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:23.319 to meditate. And then she said, by the way, can 00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:26.480 I ask you to come to my birthday party? Because 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:28.619 I want to introduce meditation to my friends 00:23:28.619 --> 00:23:31.420 also. If you can, that would be wonderful. Then 00:23:31.420 --> 00:23:34.140 I went to her birthday party and she said to 00:23:34.140 --> 00:23:36.730 her friends, This is my birthday gift to all 00:23:36.730 --> 00:23:42.309 of you and leading a meditation session by this 00:23:42.309 --> 00:23:46.690 teacher. Then I led the session for them. So, 00:23:46.769 --> 00:23:50.829 now, what is behind this? The family has seen 00:23:50.829 --> 00:23:54.009 the difference in this mother. This is not only 00:23:54.009 --> 00:23:56.069 a story I know, there are so many stories I have 00:23:56.069 --> 00:24:02.069 heard like this. So, without you knowing, you 00:24:02.069 --> 00:24:05.930 would be likeable and happier and beneficial 00:24:05.930 --> 00:24:10.410 person for you and others once you become a meditator. 00:24:13.670 --> 00:24:16.950 And I won't try to be some kind of objective 00:24:16.950 --> 00:24:21.029 interviewer here. I completely agree with your 00:24:21.029 --> 00:24:25.049 assessment of meditation and I've experienced 00:24:25.049 --> 00:24:28.589 those benefits in my everyday life from my meditation 00:24:28.589 --> 00:24:32.599 practice. You know, from hearing you talk, I 00:24:32.599 --> 00:24:36.240 remembered a few years back, I think two or three 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:40.960 years ago, I had the to take and I, you know, 00:24:41.220 --> 00:24:44.140 there was no painkiller available or it was not 00:24:44.140 --> 00:24:48.920 working well. And I decided to meditate to attenuate 00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:52.720 the pain and it helped. It really did. Like it 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:57.779 was some kind of magic. Um, and so. became an 00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:00.980 important tool in my toolbox, you know, meditation, 00:25:01.500 --> 00:25:04.460 whether it is, you know, to focus before a meeting, 00:25:04.460 --> 00:25:10.200 or reduce the stress from an event or travel. 00:25:10.579 --> 00:25:15.539 So, like you said, helping with sleep. So yeah, 00:25:15.819 --> 00:25:20.240 very useful tool to have. So I want to tackle 00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:26.609 the number one thing I hear when I suggest meditation, 00:25:27.750 --> 00:25:30.730 which is, this is not for me, I can't do it, 00:25:30.990 --> 00:25:34.670 I can't focus. And you spend a great deal of 00:25:34.670 --> 00:25:38.049 time, you know, in the book right away to address 00:25:38.049 --> 00:25:43.930 this issue. Because often, when I talk to people 00:25:43.930 --> 00:25:46.450 and try to understand why they think it's not 00:25:46.450 --> 00:25:52.619 for them, they give me not a bad description 00:25:52.619 --> 00:25:56.660 of meditation, not what I would call meditation. 00:25:57.079 --> 00:26:01.079 What they call meditation is they try to willfully 00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:05.039 stop thinking. And they think that if they can't 00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:07.900 stop their thinking, then, you know, they're 00:26:07.900 --> 00:26:12.119 not relaxing well, and it just increases their, 00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:17.480 you know, stress. And it's just so that's uh, 00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:20.200 you know, the wrong way of thinking about of, 00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:24.160 um, understanding meditation, but I guess you, 00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:26.460 you, you've had that a lot, you know, people 00:26:26.460 --> 00:26:29.259 telling you meditation is not for me. I'm not 00:26:29.259 --> 00:26:33.519 made to meditate. You know, let's address that 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:39.500 directly. Okay. So if somebody can meditate well, 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:43.140 that person does not have to meditate because 00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:48.789 that person can do that. So the reason we are 00:26:48.789 --> 00:26:51.470 practicing meditation is because we cannot meditate. 00:26:52.849 --> 00:26:55.230 We don't have a calm mind. That's why we are 00:26:55.230 --> 00:27:00.410 practicing. But what this practice is doing? 00:27:02.250 --> 00:27:05.829 Does this practice helping you to recognize the 00:27:05.829 --> 00:27:09.529 struggles you have and helping you to understand 00:27:09.529 --> 00:27:12.750 the nature of mind you have and as a result of 00:27:12.750 --> 00:27:16.000 it You would know how to improve your mind and 00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:20.519 how to help your mind to be calm and get to know 00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:24.099 your mind, getting to know your mind. So therefore, 00:27:24.220 --> 00:27:27.240 the answer is, that is the very reason we are 00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:30.019 practising meditation. I often find people say, 00:27:30.019 --> 00:27:33.339 oh no, I can't sit down right now because I can't 00:27:33.339 --> 00:27:35.960 sit on the floor. And if I tell you, you know, 00:27:36.019 --> 00:27:39.579 often when I have new meditators coming to our 00:27:39.579 --> 00:27:42.200 classes, right away they start sitting on the 00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:45.500 chair. I give them hard time if they are young 00:27:45.500 --> 00:27:48.500 people and if I feel like I'm comfortable of 00:27:48.500 --> 00:27:49.960 giving them hard time, I give them hard time. 00:27:50.119 --> 00:27:52.059 I said, how come you're sitting on the chair? 00:27:52.180 --> 00:27:54.940 Why don't you try the cushion? Oh, I can't sit 00:27:54.940 --> 00:27:58.200 on the cushion. How do you know? I said, why 00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:02.200 don't you try it? And sometimes some people really 00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:06.859 surprised afterward. People says I can meditate. 00:28:07.700 --> 00:28:12.079 Well, I often remind people or meditators. There's, 00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:16.460 there's no thoughtless or painless meditation. 00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:24.940 You are training your mind and also when somebody 00:28:24.940 --> 00:28:32.960 have a unsettled body, unsettled body means unsettled 00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:36.960 mind, not the other way around, not the other 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:41.009 way around. When your mind settles, your body 00:28:41.009 --> 00:28:46.410 also gets settled. So therefore, training your 00:28:46.410 --> 00:28:49.029 mind and training your body happens at the same 00:28:49.029 --> 00:28:55.690 time. So to have good meditation, you have to 00:28:55.690 --> 00:28:58.029 have determination, you have to be committed 00:28:58.029 --> 00:29:00.769 to practice. With the commitment and determination, 00:29:00.970 --> 00:29:05.609 this is something you can do. It is doable. It 00:29:05.609 --> 00:29:12.890 is doable. Yet it you know going back to that 00:29:12.890 --> 00:29:16.210 short list I mentioned in the beginning of our 00:29:16.210 --> 00:29:19.970 conversation some people think Happiness is not 00:29:19.970 --> 00:29:25.250 for them that they can't reach it that you know 00:29:25.250 --> 00:29:29.730 It's it's an impossibility. It's kind of a form 00:29:29.730 --> 00:29:34.750 of despair so And in the subtitle of your book 00:29:34.750 --> 00:29:40.660 you wrote for a lifetime of happiness Is that 00:29:40.660 --> 00:29:48.559 promise really golden? Is it really a real promise 00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:52.940 we can make to people if they practice meditation? 00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:56.579 Definitely. If they are committed to meditation 00:29:56.579 --> 00:30:00.799 practice, they can see how their happiness level 00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:08.579 is deepening and settling with happiness. And 00:30:08.579 --> 00:30:11.539 also they will realize that nobody else can take 00:30:11.539 --> 00:30:14.039 their happiness away. It is their happiness. 00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:21.940 I have seen meditators and I have seen many practitioners 00:30:21.940 --> 00:30:27.039 who has experienced that. Well, the reason you're 00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:31.400 here on a podcast about veganism is because there 00:30:31.400 --> 00:30:36.759 is a lot of suffering in the animal rights world 00:30:36.759 --> 00:30:43.099 space. Whether you are a rescuer or a lawyer, 00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:46.200 I remember one of my guests was a lawyer and 00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:50.660 I never thought of being a lawyer in the world 00:30:50.660 --> 00:30:54.299 of animal rights as being somewhat painful. But 00:30:54.299 --> 00:30:57.799 then he told me I can spend days looking through 00:30:57.799 --> 00:31:03.160 footage of animals being tortured and, you know, 00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:06.519 it's something, it's a very hurtful experience. 00:31:07.339 --> 00:31:13.859 Can meditation be a tool to address those painful 00:31:13.859 --> 00:31:18.039 experiences? And why should we, you know, put 00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:21.420 the emphasis on investing in your happiness in 00:31:21.420 --> 00:31:26.819 the animal rights space? So as I mentioned earlier, 00:31:28.039 --> 00:31:31.299 one of the one of the benefit of meditation is 00:31:31.299 --> 00:31:36.339 you are gaining wisdom. With the wisdom you realize 00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:41.259 What is in your capacity and what is not in your 00:31:41.259 --> 00:31:45.140 capacity? What is in your range? What is not 00:31:45.140 --> 00:31:51.900 in your range? So we cannot change anything beyond 00:31:51.900 --> 00:31:58.339 our capacity or our range and We cannot be responsible 00:31:58.339 --> 00:32:03.180 of things that you are not responsible That clarity 00:32:03.180 --> 00:32:07.970 you will have through mindfulness and wisdom 00:32:07.970 --> 00:32:11.650 that you gain through meditation when you have 00:32:11.650 --> 00:32:19.170 that wisdom and you know what you can do so then 00:32:19.170 --> 00:32:26.190 you will not have anger because you know those 00:32:26.190 --> 00:32:29.069 people who's hurting animals they are not wise 00:32:29.069 --> 00:32:34.059 they only know what they know that it is their 00:32:34.059 --> 00:32:41.720 capacity. As example, you know, let me bring 00:32:41.720 --> 00:32:48.519 you example from animal world. We know that. 00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:59.059 Tortoise cannot run like horse. But if you expect 00:32:59.059 --> 00:33:03.220 tortoise to run like a horse. it is your misunderstanding 00:33:03.220 --> 00:33:09.740 just being an animal still tortoise is being 00:33:09.740 --> 00:33:14.640 a tortoise tortoise and in the human ring there 00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:19.500 are so many people in the world but they have 00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:22.680 a different capacities some people are out of 00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:26.039 compassion some people does not some people have 00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:29.750 a lot of ignorance Self -centered people are 00:33:29.750 --> 00:33:33.569 there and selfless people are there. Some people 00:33:33.569 --> 00:33:39.710 are very generous, some people are not. So, with 00:33:39.710 --> 00:33:42.230 these differences, if you expect somebody to 00:33:42.230 --> 00:33:45.849 perform beyond that person's capacity, then we 00:33:45.849 --> 00:33:50.250 are living in the unrealistic world. It is not 00:33:50.250 --> 00:33:54.690 the realistic thing. Having that wisdom, you 00:33:54.690 --> 00:33:57.809 will not become angry because you know your anger 00:33:57.809 --> 00:34:03.289 cannot do anything. I always tell the people 00:34:03.289 --> 00:34:07.869 in animal welfare field, do your best but don't 00:34:07.869 --> 00:34:14.929 become an ugly or angry animal activist because 00:34:16.210 --> 00:34:19.210 As a ugly or as an angry animal activist you 00:34:19.210 --> 00:34:21.489 cannot convince or you cannot help others to 00:34:21.489 --> 00:34:25.329 understand what you do Because you need to friendly 00:34:25.329 --> 00:34:30.269 you need a friend to speak and invite you to 00:34:30.269 --> 00:34:34.630 get into their side You know, it is like somebody 00:34:34.630 --> 00:34:38.690 who's Waiting on the other side of the river 00:34:38.690 --> 00:34:42.690 and you're asking hey come to this side If you 00:34:42.690 --> 00:34:46.710 are invited by somebody who's angry and ugly 00:34:46.710 --> 00:34:49.670 and is screaming at you and so frustrated and 00:34:49.670 --> 00:34:52.550 blaming you, cursing you, you will never go to 00:34:52.550 --> 00:34:55.550 that side even though you are living in danger. 00:34:57.230 --> 00:34:59.090 Because you think, why do I go to another place 00:34:59.090 --> 00:35:01.670 which is dangerous for me? But if you have a 00:35:01.670 --> 00:35:04.530 very friendly and kind and compassionate person 00:35:04.530 --> 00:35:09.170 inviting you to come to that side, then without 00:35:09.170 --> 00:35:11.969 thinking twice, you will go there. That's the 00:35:11.969 --> 00:35:14.230 person you want to be as an animal activist. 00:35:16.050 --> 00:35:18.489 You are understanding other person's ignorance, 00:35:19.070 --> 00:35:21.010 understanding other person's weakness, understanding 00:35:21.010 --> 00:35:25.889 other person's behaviour, you need to invite 00:35:25.889 --> 00:35:29.630 that person and help that person out to become 00:35:29.630 --> 00:35:35.590 a better, clear person. That's the job I think 00:35:35.590 --> 00:35:42.579 animal activists can do more effectively. So 00:35:42.579 --> 00:35:46.739 I always encourage that. But to become that person, 00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:49.239 it is good to have good meditation practice. 00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:54.099 I always encourage animal activists to introduce 00:35:54.099 --> 00:35:59.219 meditation, mindful practice. That way they can 00:35:59.219 --> 00:36:05.599 be a better activist. And, you know, in the first 00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:11.219 steps of meditation, you talk about and the knowledge 00:36:11.219 --> 00:36:17.019 of the mirror and how you are reflected. And 00:36:17.019 --> 00:36:21.539 you see your reflection and you write about this 00:36:21.539 --> 00:36:25.099 story of a merchant that has this magical mirror 00:36:25.099 --> 00:36:27.659 that reflects, you know, your inner self and 00:36:27.659 --> 00:36:31.500 how many people are frightened by what they see. 00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:37.199 You know, we talked about how some people are 00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:40.480 hesitant to get into meditation, but there are 00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:43.300 also people who get into meditation and then 00:36:43.300 --> 00:36:46.420 just like the story goes, you know, they get 00:36:46.420 --> 00:36:50.059 frightened by what they see and, you know, run 00:36:50.059 --> 00:36:53.280 away. And, you know, personal story of mine, 00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:57.860 I went to this meditation retreat, spent the 00:36:57.860 --> 00:37:01.809 first Day and night there and then after that 00:37:01.809 --> 00:37:05.409 I was talking to one of the monks there and He 00:37:05.409 --> 00:37:08.550 said, you know, most people leave before you 00:37:08.550 --> 00:37:12.210 know, the first the second day like it they don't 00:37:12.210 --> 00:37:17.190 even last the night why because their mind becomes 00:37:17.190 --> 00:37:20.550 a burden and I did experience some of that, you 00:37:20.550 --> 00:37:24.190 know at first in meditation retreats, it's like 00:37:24.190 --> 00:37:28.489 the best analogy I ever heard is it's like um, 00:37:28.570 --> 00:37:32.090 turning on multiple, uh, radios and having all 00:37:32.090 --> 00:37:36.489 of those voices in, in, in your head. Um, it's, 00:37:36.489 --> 00:37:40.849 it's a lot of noise. So, you know, how do you, 00:37:40.849 --> 00:37:46.489 um, what's the solution to that problem? Well, 00:37:46.630 --> 00:37:49.730 um, now the question is, uh, the person who's 00:37:49.730 --> 00:37:53.550 living, does that person need a solution? That 00:37:53.550 --> 00:37:58.159 person does not see the trouble. for solution. 00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:01.719 Because if you, you will look for solution if 00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:05.760 you see there's a trouble or there's a challenge, 00:38:05.860 --> 00:38:08.760 there's a question, then you need a solution. 00:38:10.360 --> 00:38:14.739 What is happening to us, we get familiar with 00:38:14.739 --> 00:38:18.519 ourselves. Regardless you are happy or unhappy, 00:38:19.619 --> 00:38:26.349 you are living in the pain or not, you want to 00:38:26.349 --> 00:38:31.610 maintain as who you are. There's a Sufi story 00:38:31.610 --> 00:38:41.110 came to my head. I know this is a fiction story, 00:38:41.590 --> 00:38:49.289 but there's a very wonderful message in it. An 00:38:49.289 --> 00:38:56.900 angel appeared in this particular village. and 00:38:56.900 --> 00:39:01.079 then call everybody and then said I am here because 00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:04.380 I see you all have a lot of pain you are carrying. 00:39:05.719 --> 00:39:09.960 Tomorrow morning just come to that city ground 00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:14.500 with all of your pain and trouble put into one 00:39:14.500 --> 00:39:19.579 bag and carry that bag with you. Now then everybody 00:39:19.579 --> 00:39:22.159 thought okay today is the way we would know how 00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:24.440 to get rid of my pain, my trouble, my challenge 00:39:24.440 --> 00:39:27.599 and everybody came with it. and he said okay 00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:31.699 now since you all have it and just leave that 00:39:31.699 --> 00:39:35.960 everything in that just underneath the big tree 00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:43.820 and then just come with me then this angel just 00:39:43.820 --> 00:39:48.960 walked back walked away from the tree about a 00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:52.619 mile distance and then said okay now but this 00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:54.480 is the thing you can't really leave you back 00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:58.179 there You go back and carry you had to carry 00:39:58.179 --> 00:40:01.079 something then you can pick somebody else and 00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:10.039 less heavier bag Now everybody ran to pick a 00:40:10.039 --> 00:40:15.719 bag not a smaller Not something better. Yeah, 00:40:15.780 --> 00:40:17.920 their own bag because they don't want somebody 00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:22.460 else to take their bag Before somebody else take 00:40:22.460 --> 00:40:25.760 their own bag They want to go and pick up their 00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:30.340 own bag again. Why? That's a pain they are familiar 00:40:30.340 --> 00:40:35.960 with. Those pains associated or identifying as 00:40:35.960 --> 00:40:40.119 who they are. They used to experience that pain. 00:40:40.900 --> 00:40:43.860 We don't want it. What is happening to meditators 00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:47.780 who come to meditation retreat first time? They 00:40:47.780 --> 00:40:52.139 do not want to look at themselves. Simply they 00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:55.199 want somebody else to come and fix them, but 00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:58.760 they don't want someone to take away who they 00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:07.219 are, even. So, and we are scared to see ourselves. 00:41:07.340 --> 00:41:09.579 We don't want to look at ourselves. You have 00:41:09.579 --> 00:41:14.079 to be a brave person to look at yourself. Without 00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:17.440 that determination, without being that much brave, 00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:21.210 then you don't want to then you are running away 00:41:21.210 --> 00:41:26.730 from it that's why meditation is not for everybody 00:41:26.730 --> 00:41:31.949 meditation is for those who who's being committed 00:41:31.949 --> 00:41:38.429 and who's seeking wisdom for those people meditation 00:41:38.429 --> 00:41:44.889 will work i do think the world would be a better 00:41:44.889 --> 00:41:48.769 place if everyone was meditating and you know 00:41:48.769 --> 00:41:56.170 in my In the small niche of the world that is 00:41:56.170 --> 00:42:00.429 animal rights movement, I would like to see more 00:42:00.429 --> 00:42:04.030 activists get into meditation because I do believe, 00:42:05.409 --> 00:42:09.710 like you mentioned before, if they became meditators 00:42:09.710 --> 00:42:16.789 and they saw clearly who they are and how their 00:42:16.789 --> 00:42:20.309 actions impact the world, I think they would 00:42:20.309 --> 00:42:24.429 become more efficient activists, more productive 00:42:24.429 --> 00:42:31.190 activists, more mindful activists, and, you know, 00:42:31.650 --> 00:42:35.590 maybe make more progress for the animal cause. 00:42:36.170 --> 00:42:39.409 Would you agree with that assessment? Definitely, 00:42:39.429 --> 00:42:41.650 I completely agree with you. And, you know, I 00:42:41.650 --> 00:42:47.340 myself have tried to encourage some you know 00:42:47.340 --> 00:42:50.699 all this conference and who's having conferences 00:42:50.699 --> 00:42:54.699 for animal activists by introducing meditation 00:42:54.699 --> 00:43:01.079 in that scale of the bigger scale and but I don't 00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:06.400 I haven't seen yet they are accepting my proposal 00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:09.940 because most of the time people are looking for 00:43:09.940 --> 00:43:15.090 academic way of approach not the practical way 00:43:15.090 --> 00:43:19.449 of approach and Because we everybody think that 00:43:19.449 --> 00:43:21.909 they know themselves, but you have to meditate 00:43:21.909 --> 00:43:28.710 to see That you know little about yourself And 00:43:28.710 --> 00:43:32.289 I would highly encourage Activists to practice 00:43:32.289 --> 00:43:36.269 meditation and that way you can help this world 00:43:36.269 --> 00:43:43.519 to be a better world I need to mention something 00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:49.619 else. You start your book again with thinking 00:43:49.619 --> 00:43:54.940 your parents and you talked about how meditation 00:43:54.940 --> 00:43:58.519 is about the wisdom you gain and then apply in 00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:04.659 your everyday life. The relationship you have 00:44:04.659 --> 00:44:08.110 with your parents Needs to be very, you know, 00:44:08.110 --> 00:44:11.210 it needs to you need to really be mindful of 00:44:11.210 --> 00:44:14.190 that and take care of it That's something I learned 00:44:14.190 --> 00:44:18.630 You know in the beginning of my my practice and 00:44:18.630 --> 00:44:21.710 how it is important, you know in terms of impacting 00:44:21.710 --> 00:44:28.590 your mental health and your everyday life And 00:44:28.590 --> 00:44:34.159 I'm always saddened to see how many vegans or 00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:37.380 feel alienated from their family, including their 00:44:37.380 --> 00:44:42.519 parents, because they don't share their worldview 00:44:42.519 --> 00:44:47.579 on animals and they don't want to sit at the 00:44:47.579 --> 00:44:51.019 dinner table if there's animal products on the 00:44:51.019 --> 00:44:55.679 table. What do you make of that relationship 00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:59.849 in one's life and its importance? and its impact 00:44:59.849 --> 00:45:06.889 on happiness on our happiness. You know, meditation 00:45:06.889 --> 00:45:11.070 practice is a journey. In that journey, first, 00:45:11.210 --> 00:45:16.449 you will learn how to love yourself. And, and 00:45:16.449 --> 00:45:19.190 also in that process of loving yourself, you 00:45:19.190 --> 00:45:23.190 would know that you are not perfect. And also 00:45:23.190 --> 00:45:27.739 you then that will help you to learn how to treat 00:45:27.739 --> 00:45:32.599 others the way how you want to be treated that's 00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:36.719 very important point to treat others the way 00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:41.320 how you want to be treated then you are becoming 00:45:41.320 --> 00:45:43.840 an honest person you will not give others what 00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:49.380 you don't want so if you have become when you 00:45:49.380 --> 00:45:54.019 become that person you don't want to see that 00:45:54.019 --> 00:45:58.820 animal flesh is waiting and placing on your table. 00:45:59.019 --> 00:46:02.840 Why? You don't want anyone else to eat your body. 00:46:05.619 --> 00:46:09.420 I remember one time one of the young boy about 00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:14.659 14 -15 years old and I met this young boy in 00:46:14.659 --> 00:46:23.219 front of his grandmother's nursing home and So 00:46:23.219 --> 00:46:26.059 he was waiting outside and then as I was coming 00:46:26.059 --> 00:46:28.920 out and he said he asked me Oh, I heard you are 00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:31.320 vegan. He said true. I said, yes, I'm vegan. 00:46:31.380 --> 00:46:34.159 How do you know? Well, I am vegetarian Then I 00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:36.719 was very curious. I asked him how come why do 00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:41.380 you vegetarian? and he said Well, it's a wrong 00:46:41.380 --> 00:46:43.420 question. I know I should not ask that question, 00:46:43.460 --> 00:46:47.619 but out of curiosity I asked him why Why did 00:46:47.619 --> 00:46:50.519 you become vegetarian and he said well, I don't 00:46:50.519 --> 00:46:52.980 want anyone to eat me Then why do I eat somebody 00:46:52.980 --> 00:46:58.579 else's body? This young boy, 15 years old, I 00:46:58.579 --> 00:47:04.019 thought he's so wise. And I said, did somebody 00:47:04.019 --> 00:47:11.460 teach you that? No. I understood that now then 00:47:11.460 --> 00:47:13.940 I don't eat. My parents don't like it, but I 00:47:13.940 --> 00:47:17.699 don't because I don't want anyone else to eat 00:47:17.699 --> 00:47:21.000 me for their food. If I don't like it, why do 00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:27.280 I eat somebody else's body for my food? You don't 00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:31.659 have to be a huge academic person to come into 00:47:31.659 --> 00:47:35.559 that understanding. You don't need any religion 00:47:35.559 --> 00:47:39.400 to tell you that. You have to be an honest person. 00:47:40.500 --> 00:47:43.079 With meditation practice, you become that honest 00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:47.460 person. You become the person you want to be. 00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:51.360 Then you make the decision. You make the call 00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:57.260 in your life. So that is what awareness is doing. 00:47:57.300 --> 00:48:00.460 That is what mindfulness is doing. You become 00:48:00.460 --> 00:48:04.619 the person you want to be. Once you become that 00:48:04.619 --> 00:48:09.980 person, you cannot harm directly or indirectly 00:48:09.980 --> 00:48:13.340 any other living beings. Eating animal flesh 00:48:13.340 --> 00:48:16.380 means you are indirectly harming other living 00:48:16.380 --> 00:48:21.179 beings. Because you don't... get animal fish 00:48:21.179 --> 00:48:26.960 from a tree you have to kill somebody and in 00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:30.619 another person recently told me I am not a thief 00:48:30.619 --> 00:48:36.880 to steal others life for my own food yeah simply 00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:41.619 you steal you say hey I am hungry then I'm gonna 00:48:41.619 --> 00:48:46.219 eat you some nobody's offering their body willingly 00:48:46.219 --> 00:48:50.820 to you to eat So you don't have to be a Buddhist 00:48:50.820 --> 00:48:54.659 to understand that. Even you don't have to be 00:48:54.659 --> 00:48:56.940 a meditator to understand that. Only you have 00:48:56.940 --> 00:49:02.219 to be an honest person to understand that. And 00:49:02.219 --> 00:49:05.099 same time meditation is helping you to be more 00:49:05.099 --> 00:49:12.960 aware of the real world. Another topic you tackle 00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:17.880 in the book is jealousy. And that is something 00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:21.820 this animal rights movement is not immune of. 00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:30.340 Why? What is jealousy exactly? And how do we 00:49:30.340 --> 00:49:35.320 fight it? And I guess how do we use meditation 00:49:35.320 --> 00:49:39.800 to fight it? Because I don't see, you know, any 00:49:39.800 --> 00:49:44.219 version of a successful movement or activist 00:49:44.219 --> 00:49:49.360 movement. having, you know, a culture of jealousy 00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:53.360 and inner competition, you know, something that 00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:56.760 inspires me in life is to hear stories about 00:49:56.760 --> 00:50:01.000 startups. And, you know, if you learn about the 00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:05.360 startup culture in Silicon Valley or, you know, 00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:09.139 some other places, entrepreneurs share ideas 00:50:09.139 --> 00:50:12.619 freely. They're not, they don't entertain those 00:50:12.619 --> 00:50:15.820 feelings of jealousy. They are in a mentality 00:50:15.820 --> 00:50:19.039 of cooperation, and that makes them incredibly 00:50:19.039 --> 00:50:23.420 successful. And so I do think it's a big problem 00:50:23.420 --> 00:50:28.300 for social movements. And I was really glad to 00:50:28.300 --> 00:50:34.900 see that being, you know, talked about. I also, 00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:37.960 you know, one last point about jealousy, I also 00:50:37.960 --> 00:50:41.820 think it's a fire that is fueled a lot by social 00:50:41.820 --> 00:50:47.130 media. And sadly, I'm against it. But, you know, 00:50:47.130 --> 00:50:50.489 the reality is most of this vegan movement and 00:50:50.489 --> 00:50:54.570 animal rights movement is present on social media, 00:50:55.090 --> 00:50:58.250 all about social media actions and connecting 00:50:58.250 --> 00:51:01.750 with others through social media and social media. 00:51:01.909 --> 00:51:05.570 Well, it feeds that jealousy. It feeds those 00:51:05.570 --> 00:51:10.789 negative feelings. So yes, please talk to us 00:51:10.789 --> 00:51:15.309 about jealousy. Yeah, there are two reasons behind 00:51:15.309 --> 00:51:23.070 it for animal welfare field number one is limited 00:51:23.070 --> 00:51:33.210 resources and limited financial support and when 00:51:33.210 --> 00:51:36.449 when that limitations are there animal welfare 00:51:36.449 --> 00:51:42.309 people want the groups want funders to fund them, 00:51:42.909 --> 00:51:47.070 not others. Because everybody is carrying good 00:51:47.070 --> 00:51:50.949 visions. Everybody is going to do a good job. 00:51:52.230 --> 00:51:53.989 But even though others are doing a good job, 00:51:54.070 --> 00:51:57.389 you also want to do a good job. That's why you 00:51:57.389 --> 00:52:01.610 want others to help you, not others. You want 00:52:01.610 --> 00:52:06.650 funders, donors to support you, not others. Because 00:52:06.650 --> 00:52:10.889 it is limited resources. limited funders and 00:52:10.889 --> 00:52:17.130 limited donors. And that created jealousy. And 00:52:17.130 --> 00:52:25.809 another part is some people are not willing to 00:52:25.809 --> 00:52:29.230 accept the goodness what other people have or 00:52:29.230 --> 00:52:35.730 what others do. As you said, in that, so when 00:52:37.039 --> 00:52:43.460 When somebody does not have any challenge, they 00:52:43.460 --> 00:52:45.300 don't have jealousy because they don't have any 00:52:45.300 --> 00:52:50.679 challenge, and nobody can take what they have. 00:52:52.980 --> 00:52:55.780 And I have even seen that among the meditation 00:52:55.780 --> 00:53:07.070 teachers too. Somebody asked me recently, they 00:53:07.070 --> 00:53:09.050 have seen that with other teachers but they don't 00:53:09.050 --> 00:53:13.570 see that with me and why i was not thinking about 00:53:13.570 --> 00:53:16.050 that in the past and then right away i said nobody 00:53:16.050 --> 00:53:22.250 can replace me it's me and that is not only my 00:53:22.250 --> 00:53:26.769 story it's with everybody nobody can replace 00:53:26.769 --> 00:53:30.789 you as long as you can become who you are but 00:53:30.789 --> 00:53:33.190 you are in trouble if you try to be somebody 00:53:33.190 --> 00:53:38.389 else As long as you are finding yourself you 00:53:38.389 --> 00:53:40.989 are being you no one can replace you then you 00:53:40.989 --> 00:53:44.909 don't have to be jealous with somebody else Because 00:53:44.909 --> 00:53:50.570 no one can replace you And no one can replace 00:53:50.570 --> 00:53:53.949 any organization too because if that that organization 00:53:53.949 --> 00:53:57.449 become unique with the people in the organization 00:53:57.449 --> 00:54:02.449 And then when the donors look at that organization 00:54:02.449 --> 00:54:06.139 they will stick with their organization With 00:54:06.139 --> 00:54:13.960 honesty So therefore all of us are unique when 00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:16.420 they realize that they don't they will not have 00:54:16.420 --> 00:54:24.820 fear with fear you experience jealousy There 00:54:24.820 --> 00:54:28.719 is also the fact of in I thought it was a funny 00:54:28.719 --> 00:54:30.920 insight that you brought to this conversation 00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:34.980 How you know you said? um, they're thinking about 00:54:34.980 --> 00:54:39.059 the issue as an academic instead of a realist. 00:54:39.059 --> 00:54:42.460 And I thought, yeah, those academic people are 00:54:42.460 --> 00:54:44.880 completely detached from reality. Sometimes, 00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:49.059 you know, are hearing them talk and also they 00:54:49.059 --> 00:54:52.880 come from a very, from a very competitive culture 00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:57.539 and pediculture of like, whose name is on that 00:54:57.539 --> 00:55:01.860 study or that paper, and who is the biggest teacher 00:55:01.860 --> 00:55:07.179 with the more, you know, the more incredible 00:55:07.179 --> 00:55:12.940 titles and so on. It is an anti startup cooperation 00:55:12.940 --> 00:55:18.880 culture. It's really a culture that breeds jealousy. 00:55:19.769 --> 00:55:24.329 I guess my last question is less of a question 00:55:24.329 --> 00:55:30.230 and maybe more of a request. Do you want to maybe 00:55:30.230 --> 00:55:36.610 give instructions for a meditation? And maybe 00:55:36.610 --> 00:55:41.030 we could leave things at that with you giving 00:55:41.030 --> 00:55:43.730 those instructions and the person listening to 00:55:43.730 --> 00:55:47.050 the podcast could maybe close their eyes and 00:55:47.050 --> 00:55:52.420 try meditation. um um and and learn that from 00:55:52.420 --> 00:55:57.519 you um you know um practically you know talking 00:55:57.519 --> 00:56:00.320 about you know practicing and not being just 00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:03.519 theoretical about it let's give a chance for 00:56:03.519 --> 00:56:07.980 the listener to experience that meditation well 00:56:07.980 --> 00:56:10.559 yeah one thing i would say to practice good meditation 00:56:10.559 --> 00:56:15.119 you have to come to the good posture that the 00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:22.070 good posture would be you sit down with the in 00:56:22.070 --> 00:56:28.110 Sanskrit we call it Sukhasana which is easy posture 00:56:28.110 --> 00:56:30.670 you can search that how it looks like that's 00:56:30.670 --> 00:56:35.030 most easiest one which means folding your legs 00:56:35.030 --> 00:56:38.349 and all the knees go down and make your back 00:56:38.349 --> 00:56:43.250 straight so your legs might go to sleep sometime 00:56:43.250 --> 00:56:45.989 don't worry that's the purpose of that posture 00:56:46.830 --> 00:56:50.610 And once you settle with your body, the starting 00:56:50.610 --> 00:56:52.730 meditation would be the breathing meditation. 00:56:54.110 --> 00:56:57.489 I will guide you with the podcast and then anybody 00:56:57.489 --> 00:57:01.409 can follow it. And also I would say, at least 00:57:01.409 --> 00:57:07.590 try to meditate at least 20 minutes. But if you 00:57:07.590 --> 00:57:14.769 can do 40, that would be great. And if you have 00:57:14.769 --> 00:57:18.380 a consistent practice, That will help you to 00:57:18.380 --> 00:57:22.960 improve yourself find a quiet space and Committed 00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:26.920 to that time and keep your pets and kids away 00:57:26.920 --> 00:57:29.059 because they don't know you're meditating then 00:57:29.059 --> 00:57:32.000 they'll be disturbed also these days make sure 00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:37.280 turn off your phone or make phone silent and 00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:40.500 Then once when you're ready, you can sit with 00:57:40.500 --> 00:57:44.019 the straighten back and close your eyes So I 00:57:44.019 --> 00:57:47.869 will guide you with meditation and you can practice 00:57:47.869 --> 00:57:51.949 with me and but I will start and then you can 00:57:51.949 --> 00:58:00.369 continue to the end so and okay now sit on the 00:58:00.369 --> 00:58:07.590 cushion over wherever you are gently close your 00:58:07.590 --> 00:58:22.079 eyes feel how you have placed your body. Allow 00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:30.780 you to be relaxed. Allow you to be here at the 00:58:30.780 --> 00:58:42.719 present moment. Feel your breath, your present 00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:51.280 breath. Select a place to observe your breath. 00:58:53.380 --> 00:59:00.460 It can be your upper lip or tip of the nose, 00:59:01.699 --> 00:59:10.500 inside the nose, your chest or your stomach. 00:59:13.559 --> 00:59:20.949 Select a place. Now keep your attention there. 00:59:22.989 --> 00:59:31.230 Allow your body to breathe naturally. Observe 00:59:31.230 --> 00:59:42.070 your present breath. Breathe in mindfully, breathe 00:59:42.070 --> 01:00:03.900 out mindfully. When your mind wonders, notice 01:00:03.900 --> 01:00:16.960 it. Gently and mindfully bring your attention 01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:29.030 back onto present breath. Observe this breath 01:00:29.030 --> 01:01:06.030 remember You are not a reactor. You are an observer. 01:01:07.949 --> 01:14:44.079 Observe your present breath. Take a deep breath. 01:14:46.340 --> 01:14:54.960 Let your body relax. Let's cultivate these intentions 01:14:54.960 --> 01:15:08.420 in your heart. May all living beings be well. 01:15:11.060 --> 01:15:22.020 happy, skilful and peaceful, including you, your 01:15:22.020 --> 01:15:27.880 family, your friends, people you know and you 01:15:27.880 --> 01:15:37.739 do not know, pets, animals, visible and invisible 01:15:37.739 --> 01:15:48.819 beings, May all living beings be well, happy, 01:15:50.800 --> 01:16:00.140 skillful and peaceful. Let it cultivate freely 01:16:00.140 --> 01:16:13.770 in your heart. Let it become you. Friend, friendly 01:16:13.770 --> 01:16:24.590 to all living beings. When you are ready, then 01:16:24.590 --> 01:16:26.510 open your eyes mindfully.