1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,820 Hello everyone, my name is Ryan and you are listening to The Vegan Report. 2 00:00:05,820 --> 00:00:11,360 It is said that money is the nerve of war, and in the war of making a better world for 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,820 animals, the same rule applies. 4 00:00:14,820 --> 00:00:21,460 The only reason why professional vegan non-profits such as Mercy for Animals, PETA, the Paul 5 00:00:21,460 --> 00:00:28,380 Watson Foundation or Suchafarm exist and thrive is because of money, and that money does not 6 00:00:28,380 --> 00:00:35,480 grow on trees, it is the result of extensive fundraising efforts. 7 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:42,080 And for today's episode, my wish is for vegan organizations, both big and small, to become 8 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,760 champions of fundraising. 9 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:50,340 To help us achieve this goal, I am thrilled to welcome Marina Boulos-Winton, a rock star 10 00:00:50,340 --> 00:00:56,640 in the philanthropic world, who has graciously agreed to share with us the secrets behind 11 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,760 her success. 12 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:03,960 Marina is currently the Executive Director of Yes Employment Plus Entrepreneurship. 13 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:10,020 She previously served for 10 years as the Executive Director of Chez Doris, a day shelter 14 00:01:10,020 --> 00:01:12,440 for women in difficulty. 15 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:19,280 Prior to this, she held the position of President and CEO at the Foundation of Greater Montreal. 16 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:24,960 Her professional journey also includes serving as the Acting Executive Director of the High 17 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:31,460 Water Women Foundation, as President and CEO of the National I Have a Dream Foundation, 18 00:01:31,460 --> 00:01:39,120 as Assistant National Executive Director of the YWCA, as well as Senior Executive Positions 19 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:45,760 with the National Fundraising Consulting Firm CCS Fundraising Inc. and with the United Way 20 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:47,600 of New York City. 21 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:53,200 So welcome Marina, thank you so much for having accepted my invitation. 22 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:58,560 I'm so glad to have you on for so many different reasons. 23 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:07,160 I should tell listeners that you were my teacher in college and you were one of the main reasons 24 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:14,600 why I decided to launch myself into a career in fundraising. 25 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:21,920 You were very inspiring and I always had so much respect for your professionalism, for 26 00:02:21,920 --> 00:02:26,600 your expertise and I feel like this is a gift. 27 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,960 This is a gift for me to help. 28 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:31,960 Thank you. 29 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:39,920 I remember you as one of my first students and that you were very keen, very eager to 30 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:47,840 learn, accepting of all the information that you were given. 31 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:57,120 And for me, preparing the syllabus, so it was my first time teaching, it was a great 32 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:07,840 way for me to prepare a syllabus and topics for my students that also perfected my work, 33 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:08,880 my actual work. 34 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,960 So it was also beneficial for me. 35 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,480 So thank you for that. 36 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:25,120 And I find it extremely rewarding that from one course that I taught, which was about 37 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:34,040 prospect research, like finding donors that I now see many years later, my old students 38 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:39,120 in positions where they're really my equals, right? 39 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,240 So it's very rewarding. 40 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:43,240 That's amazing. 41 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:50,480 And prospect research is my favorite step in getting fundraising. 42 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,200 I just love it. 43 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:54,880 It's so fun. 44 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,080 And maybe we should start with that. 45 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:06,600 I think that when people hear about fundraising, they get anxious and they're not really interested 46 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,600 in doing the fundraising. 47 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:16,520 So they are passionate about the cause and they want to pursue their goals as nonprofit 48 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:17,880 leaders. 49 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:23,480 But then the fundraising is like the legume you don't want to eat. 50 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,560 Yes. 51 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,320 So why is fundraising fun? 52 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,440 Can you make the case for loving fundraising? 53 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:41,880 Well, if you're working for a great cause, fundraising, I think, is an honor and a privilege 54 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:51,000 because you are a solution to the problem. 55 00:04:51,000 --> 00:05:04,720 And our charities exist because private citizens decided to put together this organization 56 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:10,920 because a problem existed that wasn't getting solved by the government. 57 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:22,040 And so you have many, many great mission-based organizations that need people's philanthropic 58 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:23,360 dollars. 59 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:29,520 And if you believe in the mission, it's an honor to be raising money to solve societal 60 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,520 problems. 61 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,560 So I think that's how it has to be seen. 62 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:41,160 If there's a problem with the mission, then you have a problem. 63 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:48,320 If it's not compelling, if you're not solving problems, then you're not going to raise any 64 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,320 money. 65 00:05:51,320 --> 00:06:00,960 I think that I mentioned how you could feel anxiety from doing fundraising. 66 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:06,360 And maybe this has to do with the ask, this asking for funding. 67 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:12,440 So do you have any thoughts about that, how to facilitate the ask? 68 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,680 So it's very stressful asking people for money. 69 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:23,720 There's many ways of asking people for money, whether people still do, believe it or not, 70 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:31,840 direct mail or grant writing or events. 71 00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:34,520 There's lots of different ways to raise money. 72 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:45,280 And so you have to see what is the best way to ask for money and within people's means. 73 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:57,480 There's a difference between asking somebody for $50 versus $500 versus $5,000, $50,000, 74 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,800 half a million dollars or $5 million. 75 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:08,000 So those are all asks. 76 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:18,760 So your question was, so why is it so difficult or how do you encourage somebody to not be 77 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:25,760 so... 78 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:32,280 Like I think some people have a fear of being rejected, right? 79 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:40,680 But the first piece of advice I would have to say in starting your fundraising career, 80 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:51,000 let's say, is to learn how to tell a compelling story about your cause. 81 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:58,440 So I think people give to people. 82 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:10,120 I'm now with a different cause and while my cause might not be of interest to everyone 83 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:16,520 that donated to my former cause, people still return my phone calls. 84 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,200 People give to people. 85 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:30,440 It's important to develop a relationship with our donors to be honest, to communicate, to 86 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:41,560 communicate the impact and to share real life success stories to create that emotional connection. 87 00:08:41,560 --> 00:08:46,480 So I still have a connection with a lot of my donors. 88 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:52,480 Like sometimes my donors would even invite me, let's say, their other cause was, let's 89 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:57,120 say, the opera or something like that and they would invite me to concerts. 90 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:02,680 So of course I would go and I've kept in touch with them. 91 00:09:02,680 --> 00:09:08,720 It's important to reach out to people who already care about the cause. 92 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:16,580 So if you're starting cold, it's not the best thing to do, right? 93 00:09:16,580 --> 00:09:22,280 It's much harder starting with a blank slate like where am I going to shake the bushes 94 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:29,640 to get donors than looking at a list that you already have. 95 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:39,960 It's also important to know what people's capacity is. 96 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,060 It's one of the most important elements. 97 00:09:43,060 --> 00:09:50,960 So a very good example, a mistake that actually one of my colleagues made yesterday was that 98 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:56,520 she was making a request for a hundred thousand dollar gift. 99 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:03,840 She didn't do her research and they never give more than ten thousand dollars. 100 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:10,480 And they responded to us right away saying, well, like, our assets are so small, we don't 101 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,140 have that capacity. 102 00:10:12,140 --> 00:10:14,320 Can you resubmit your proposal? 103 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,760 Thankfully, they gave us that opportunity, right? 104 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,640 It's also important to focus again on relationships. 105 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:35,880 So in crafting proposals or making asks, you try to see if you have a commonality. 106 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,800 So with the same donor, well, the president of the board is somebody that I went to high 107 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,000 school with. 108 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:43,600 So I mentioned it. 109 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:50,440 I mentioned that this person may not know me well, but she knows about the quality of 110 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,000 my work. 111 00:10:54,000 --> 00:11:02,720 I also mentioned that I remember very well the founder of this foundation or the person 112 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:11,280 who this foundation is named after and why there is such a great link to our cause. 113 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,240 So it's a bit of marketing, really. 114 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:24,080 It's to try to grab people, get their attention and to say, hey, look at me, right? 115 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:30,040 Look at me like there's a lot of great causes, but you have to find the connection. 116 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,600 And really, it's with practice. 117 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,640 I've been doing this for more than 30 years. 118 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,600 It's with practice that you get really good at it. 119 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:49,920 And the people I find who are the pros at finding a connection with people are people 120 00:11:49,920 --> 00:12:01,440 in planned giving, people who are successful in getting people to think of their cause 121 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,880 and put it in their will. 122 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,280 Yes, planned giving. 123 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:06,280 That's something... 124 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:11,600 Well, could you explain what planned giving is and why it's important to think about it? 125 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:17,640 So it's called planned giving because you're not giving now, you're giving later. 126 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:26,680 And so you either put the name of a charity in, let's say, an insurance policy or your, 127 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:36,680 I don't know, your RRSPs, any type of savings that when you... or a will, your last living 128 00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:39,240 testament. 129 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:53,080 And you can give either a percentage of your estate, a fixed amount, fixed assets, such 130 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,040 as a house. 131 00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:02,600 So just to give you an example, it was a very dear lady who... 132 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:10,720 And the people who are really the most susceptible to putting charities in their wills are people 133 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,920 who have no children. 134 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:20,720 So it's important to look at your donor list, look at who is a faithful donor, faithful, 135 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:21,960 regular donor. 136 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:26,440 Those are the people who are, even though they give small amounts, maybe they're on 137 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:34,720 a fixed income, but it's important to look at who are your faithful donors and then start 138 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:40,320 having conversations or getting to know them over time. 139 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:49,680 And if you publish literature on like a brochure or an advertisement or an email about, have 140 00:13:49,680 --> 00:14:04,720 you thought about putting us in your will or to plan a gift after you leave, they respond. 141 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:12,600 So in one case, one woman, just a conversation, no children wants to leave her legacy behind, 142 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,360 wants to be remembered. 143 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,260 How can she be remembered? 144 00:14:16,260 --> 00:14:19,840 She doesn't really have any money other than her house. 145 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,520 And I said, well, why not your house? 146 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,720 And she said, that's an excellent idea. 147 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:31,200 And so, it's important to develop like a friendship. 148 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:40,440 It's such a huge honor to be being given someone's house and then having to take care of selling 149 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,000 it, emptying out the contents. 150 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:48,080 It's something that needs to be done in a very respectful way. 151 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,080 Definitely. 152 00:14:50,080 --> 00:15:04,160 I feel like giving, the way you portrayed it and fundraising is about creating relationships 153 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,040 and then deepening those relationships. 154 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,120 Is this a good way to summarize? 155 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,760 That is it in a nutshell. 156 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:13,840 Thank you. 157 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:20,040 And what about the person who thinks, I'm just starting here. 158 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:25,880 I don't have the many years of experience that Marina has. 159 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:32,640 And I'm just starting this new organization, this new cause. 160 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,400 How do I get it off the ground? 161 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,240 Starting from scratch. 162 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:45,200 Is there any hope for me to fundraise for my cause if I don't have already that pool 163 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,680 of supporters? 164 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,640 How do I go from zero to 10? 165 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,480 So, I'm working. 166 00:15:55,480 --> 00:16:02,120 So look, I've worked for a couple of causes. 167 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,560 Right now I'm working for a third where they didn't have many donors. 168 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:14,320 Like they had, they didn't have zero, but they had like maybe 250 at best. 169 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,240 And it takes time. 170 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:23,600 It takes, I think after two years you will start seeing the results. 171 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:35,520 But it's the ability to tell your story first and to be in social media, the media in general, 172 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:44,000 like the more people who know about you and what you want to do is key. 173 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:51,920 Because after repeating your name or your cause and what you do after so many times, 174 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,040 that's how you develop brand recognition. 175 00:16:55,040 --> 00:17:02,360 And that's what causes like the charitable sector has to do all the time as well, as 176 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:07,320 well as inform, let's say the media, right? 177 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:12,560 And have stories written about the work that they're doing. 178 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:17,160 So but it's difficult to do your work with no money. 179 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:26,440 Starting a charitable endeavor is very entrepreneurial and it requires a lot of sacrifice on behalf 180 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:31,560 of the social entrepreneur. 181 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,960 So how does one start? 182 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:41,800 I really believe in investing money in prospect research. 183 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:48,260 So the, so your podcast is international, right? 184 00:17:48,260 --> 00:17:58,720 So but I guess people could Google what type of prospect research is available. 185 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:06,280 I personally use something called charity can and grant connect in Canada. 186 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:17,920 I know that in the US and maybe it's international is a software called I wave I w a V E, which 187 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,200 has people from all over the world. 188 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:33,040 So and also you need to realize, okay, what type of donors are the ones who will be the 189 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,280 most attracted to my cause? 190 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:37,960 Is it individuals? 191 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:39,640 Is it companies? 192 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:44,520 Is it charitable foundations? 193 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:53,440 Is it another segment of the corporate world? 194 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,520 Is it the government? 195 00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:04,680 So in my case right now, for instance, most of our, the bulk of the money comes from government 196 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,240 because we help the economy. 197 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:18,160 Whereas a homeless organization or an organization that helps, let's say stray animals, it will 198 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:26,240 largely be individuals and it depends largely on marketing, social media to get those individual 199 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,800 donors. 200 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:39,440 And the only other donors that are corporate in nature would probably be corporations that 201 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:49,680 produce pet food or pet store, like well, pet supply stores, right? 202 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:54,080 So you really have to see which segments of the population are the most. 203 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:59,420 And then also foundations who have a mission that's similar to yours. 204 00:19:59,420 --> 00:20:10,720 So it requires interest capability and would they be interested in you? 205 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,940 So you have to try to develop a relationship. 206 00:20:13,940 --> 00:20:19,160 So it could even be sending e-newsletters, right? 207 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,240 So you bring people in that way. 208 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:29,040 So the last charity I worked for, which was an organization for homeless women, actually 209 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,800 the mission evolved over time. 210 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,720 It made it more compelling. 211 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,200 It was strictly a day shelter for vulnerable women. 212 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:47,520 A lot of lonely women came, but with the lack of housing that I think the whole world is 213 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:54,080 experiencing, the lack of housing, the cost of living increasing. 214 00:20:54,080 --> 00:21:01,240 It was evident that we also had to serve homeless women and the donor base grew from certainly 215 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:11,280 250 to well over 15,000 in no time and its budget grew tenfold. 216 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:17,440 So that's the advice I have to give for somebody who's starting out with a clean slate. 217 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:25,600 Let's go back to the prospecting tools because I feel like it's not that it's a secret, but 218 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,280 I feel like this is not something we often talk about in the fundraising world, that 219 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:35,160 those powerful tools are available to us. 220 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:44,240 So what does Grant Connect, iWave, what's their function and what's the price range 221 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:49,400 of getting those softwares, those data banks? 222 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:57,080 So it could range anywhere from something that you might be able to find at the library 223 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:01,560 if you ask the reference librarian to get it. 224 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:07,800 So it could cost as little as maybe $800 to something that could cost as much as $3,000 225 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,880 or $4,000 per year. 226 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:15,160 What they do is they do data mining. 227 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:21,160 And so if you were to do it by hand, which I have done like at the very beginning of 228 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:29,000 the last charity that I worked for, is I would go online and look at similar charities and 229 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,640 look at their donor list. 230 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,420 I would look at their annual reports, who they were thanking. 231 00:22:37,420 --> 00:22:43,960 Sometimes it's broken down by their biggest donors by categories, and it would tell me. 232 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,640 But this is a very painstaking process. 233 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,120 It's very long. 234 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:54,960 You know, you write it out by hand or you start typing and you put it on an Excel spreadsheet 235 00:22:54,960 --> 00:23:03,160 and then you have to figure out, okay, so how much do they give per year? 236 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,160 You have no idea. 237 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,280 It's like taking a stab in the dark. 238 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:19,400 What these data mining softwares do is that you can tell it, you know, give me all the 239 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:30,200 organizations, let's say in Montreal or New York or whatever, in Montreal who donate to 240 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:42,880 the environment and I'm only interested in, I don't know, organizations that have assets 241 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:52,920 of 50 million dollars or more, which means that, you know, it's a decent sized charity 242 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,680 and it'll give you a list. 243 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:00,600 And it could even produce an Excel spreadsheet for you. 244 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,560 You can choose the ones that you want. 245 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:09,120 It gives you the contact information, phone number, everything. 246 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:16,360 So for instance, just like my colleague who made the error of not looking in the prospect 247 00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:24,360 research software, she would have known that this foundation is a very small foundation. 248 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:33,240 They only, I don't know, they don't have assets of more than half a million dollars, right? 249 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:38,220 And so they only have like $25,000 to give every year. 250 00:24:38,220 --> 00:24:44,760 So of course they're going to say, we're going to only consider requests no more of $10,000. 251 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:50,840 And if they have, you know, they used to get five to 10 requests, as the person explained. 252 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,340 Well, now they're getting 30 requests per year. 253 00:24:54,340 --> 00:25:01,240 So it's more work for just amount of the same amount of money because their assets are always 254 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:02,240 the same. 255 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:03,240 They're never changing. 256 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,040 So eventually these foundations become smaller. 257 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:13,200 Well they're the same size, but they don't keep up with inflation. 258 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:20,560 So you have to focus on the big ones first and then the smaller ones later. 259 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:29,400 I think it's also important to talk about restricted and unrestricted gifts with that. 260 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:35,640 So people might think that, you know, well you've got it made if you're able to get really 261 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,140 large gifts, like let's say from the government or foundations. 262 00:25:40,140 --> 00:25:50,240 But the reality is, is that the little gifts, the $50 gifts, the dinner that you're going 263 00:25:50,240 --> 00:26:02,240 to, the gala that costs $500, $1,000, whatever, those are super important as well because 264 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,880 the smaller gifts is your unrestricted funding. 265 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:17,320 And so when your costs are increasing, you know, like your rent, your wages, because 266 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:25,080 the cost of living is getting higher and your grants are not indexed for inflation. 267 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:30,320 It is very important to be able to count on those small donations, even though there are 268 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:37,680 a lot of work for your friend raising capabilities and to pay for your unrestricted, for your 269 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,400 operating expenses that your grants are not paying for. 270 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,720 Because it pays for either the highest need. 271 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:51,400 It could pay for a repair that you hadn't an expense that was unforeseen. 272 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:58,200 And there you go, you know, so that's, that's, I think that that's, it's important to keep 273 00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:59,880 that in mind. 274 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:04,240 How do you explain that to donors? 275 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,600 How do you make them understand that need? 276 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:13,200 Because there are many donors who have that mindset of, I want all of my money to go to 277 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:25,520 this project 100% and I don't want to cover operational costs or anything like that. 278 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,120 How do you address that? 279 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:37,800 So a classic example is I was once, I sent a proposal to a donor or a prospective donor 280 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,920 at the time and it was all salaries. 281 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:48,120 And she said, but I want to donate to programs. 282 00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:51,440 And I said, but the salaries are the program. 283 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,040 It's just a different word. 284 00:27:53,040 --> 00:28:03,160 They are the people who will feed the homeless women who will provide them the counseling 285 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,840 and who will find them an apartment. 286 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,560 That's your program. 287 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:19,600 So you can't offer also your programs without a percentage of administrative costs. 288 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:29,320 And so we instituted, it's important to institute or to say that let's say 10 or 15%, 15% is 289 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:30,320 perfectly acceptable. 290 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:36,280 That we'll pay for operational costs such as accounting to make sure that your grant 291 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:45,720 is well spent for the rent, for the heat, and for marketing or communication expenses 292 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:50,120 so that we could tell people what we're doing. 293 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:51,600 It's perfectly acceptable. 294 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:57,600 And when you present it that way, they'll understand. 295 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:06,440 I have not met anyone who did not understand and they said, well, then charge us more for 296 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:11,080 something else so that you'll get, you know, like because we don't like that. 297 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,320 Our board doesn't like that word. 298 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:14,720 Right? 299 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:25,000 So the program officer who you're having conversations with, if they like you enough, they will guide 300 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,120 you. 301 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:34,640 Another thing that came to mind was how many nonprofits, at least in the animal sector 302 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:42,560 and it's a recurring comment, are dependent on a certain segment of donors, for instance, 303 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:51,040 individual donors and how they wish to diversify and get new donors. 304 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,480 What is your answer to that problem? 305 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:59,680 I think that, well, look, I'm realizing I'm working for it. 306 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:05,440 We'll talk about, I'm working in a completely different sector and it's difficult to get 307 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,440 individual donors. 308 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:18,040 So your question is, how can organizations that help animals, how can they get away from 309 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,440 individual donors? 310 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,560 They can't. 311 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:28,640 It's extremely labor intensive to deal with individual donors. 312 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,520 I get it. 313 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:37,840 It's also dealing people like really having a relationship with people who have an emotional 314 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:46,040 connection to animals, period, who are very sensitive people affected by when people, 315 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,080 when animals are hurt as well. 316 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,400 Right? 317 00:30:50,400 --> 00:31:02,480 And having to, I see it on social media, like I'm on, you know, like I'm on these community 318 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:14,200 Facebook posts and some people are, for instance, obsessed with taking pictures of cats and 319 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:15,800 they think that they're stray. 320 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:23,240 And so a lot of people chime in or so it gets a lot, when animals are involved, there's 321 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:24,840 a lot of reactions. 322 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:25,840 Right? 323 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,840 So it's having to go through all that. 324 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:34,640 It's necessary, unfortunately. 325 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:41,680 And you have to count yourself lucky because at least people are coming to you. 326 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,280 Right? 327 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:49,720 And so it's easy to have, it's easier to have conversations with people when they're coming 328 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:55,280 to you as opposed to you going to them. 329 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,240 Right? 330 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:09,360 It's important to also use traditional media, I think, as well. 331 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:15,600 And I think the segment of the population who are interested in animals are especially 332 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:22,880 those who are more elderly because their pets are like family. 333 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:23,880 Right? 334 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,840 They might be living alone. 335 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,640 They have the comfort of their pets. 336 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:35,440 And that's where you, it's, that's the segment of the population that's probably the most 337 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:36,440 interested. 338 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:41,920 Their children have gone away or maybe they don't have children and their pets have brought 339 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,560 them a lot of comfort. 340 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:46,560 That's very true. 341 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,560 And that's something I never thought about weirdly enough. 342 00:32:50,560 --> 00:33:00,120 But yes, in that case, you know, you talked about how it is labor-intensive and it is. 343 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:05,320 And there's also that emotional toll. 344 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:15,480 So let's talk about maybe the cost, the mental health cost of doing fundraising, starting 345 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:27,680 with, you know, rejection, getting rejections, but also managing those relationships. 346 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,400 How do you deal with that? 347 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,120 First of all, where do you put the boundaries? 348 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:38,720 And then how do you manage your mental health while doing fundraising? 349 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:51,080 So I think there are some causes I've realized that you can be more successful, you will 350 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:56,000 have less rejections than others. 351 00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:06,120 So if, for instance, I think since the pandemic, helping the homeless has been very popular 352 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:14,320 because it's a need, like it's evident, like when we were in lockdown, it was evident who, 353 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,960 the many, many people who didn't have a home. 354 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:27,560 So it's harder actually for those who are working with the vulnerable who face trauma 355 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:37,200 and or let's say people who work with pets that have been traumatized and you live their 356 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,000 trauma. 357 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:50,520 And so it's important to practice self-care and have your limits. 358 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:58,280 And so some people, so I met people who, you know, counselors whose doctors told them, 359 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:05,220 find another living because you're going from charity, like charity to charity, charity 360 00:35:05,220 --> 00:35:16,960 with the same mission, but you burn out because you can't handle the trauma that you're listening 361 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:23,480 to or hearing or you're seeing or hearing from your clients. 362 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:32,840 And it's the same goes for pets is that if it's bad for your mental health, it's important 363 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:38,120 to realize like, is this the right career for me as well? 364 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:45,920 And it's important to be able to distance yourself and not make it a 24-7 career. 365 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:54,040 I'll give you another example of, I think another example of where people have difficulty 366 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,040 in their careers. 367 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:03,920 You know, I had the privilege in my last job of working with many Inuit women who live 368 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,360 in Northern Quebec. 369 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:12,640 They live in a very, very, well, much more rural environment. 370 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:19,400 They come down to the South, often with not the education, the language, the background 371 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,760 needed to work in an urban environment. 372 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:30,160 Especially Indigenous women fall prey to the sex trade. 373 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:37,240 And our counselors also, the counselors that work with these ladies, it's hard for them. 374 00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:48,640 But who it's even harder for is if you have an Indigenous employee who works with Indigenous 375 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:57,760 clients who could be relatives, who could be, you know, like in other words, who could 376 00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,800 be relatives or friends of relatives. 377 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,160 It's a small community. 378 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:12,180 And so not only are they helping people nine to five during their work, but they're also 379 00:37:12,180 --> 00:37:21,040 helping people because they're successful in, you know, during their private time. 380 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:29,000 So and they tend to burn out very quickly and do not last more than two years. 381 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:30,000 It's very unfortunate. 382 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:37,040 So we can say that for a lot of communities who come, you know, they're successful, they 383 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:44,800 come to another city, they send money back home, or they're the, you know, they're the 384 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:51,720 first to graduate from university and they're helping maybe their own family that might 385 00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:56,800 have a lot of problems during their own time. 386 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:05,640 You really have to take the time to rest and be strong for your job, which is, you know, 387 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,360 maybe Monday to Friday, nine to five or other times. 388 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:14,320 So I also want to tell you about, speak to you about rejection. 389 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:23,400 So I'm now the executive director of Youth Employment Services in Montreal, also known 390 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:29,240 by its marketing name, yes, Employment Plus Entrepreneurship. 391 00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:35,260 And I came to this organization thinking, well, I'm a rock star, like in fundraising, 392 00:38:35,260 --> 00:38:38,960 and all of a sudden, I don't feel like a rock star. 393 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:39,960 Right. 394 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:40,960 Why? 395 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:54,920 Because our mission really is to help young people, 18 to 39 year olds, find work and 396 00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:07,160 to also help people of any age become entrepreneurs and launch companies, as well as we have a 397 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:12,680 third pillar of service where it's, we help artists, we teach artists how to monetize 398 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,520 their work. 399 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:21,400 So we really contribute a lot to the economy, we prevent vulnerabilities, we launch certainly 400 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:26,160 500, 600 or more companies per year. 401 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:32,760 And we contribute to the, like we contribute to the wellbeing and to the fabric of Montreal. 402 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:41,120 Our mission, however, is to help English speakers in Quebec and to help them learn French and 403 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:47,480 prevent them from leaving the province because they can't find work or they can't find their 404 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,600 place. 405 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,280 It's not a sexy mission, I'm told. 406 00:39:53,280 --> 00:40:00,240 It's not sexy because let's say the language of the majority is French. 407 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:08,560 And you know, some people prefer, most people prefer helping everyone regardless of their 408 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:09,560 language. 409 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:19,840 And I've been told that, especially by foundations, that we don't have the curb appeal or the 410 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,600 sex appeal that a homeless organization does. 411 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:34,300 So now I have to do my homework in crafting compelling stories and finding the type of 412 00:40:34,300 --> 00:40:38,160 donors that would be more interested in us. 413 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:45,000 Yes, the government is interested in us, but you're at, you know, the government can change 414 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,680 as we can see in the US right now, right? 415 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,240 Lots of changes happening in the charitable sector. 416 00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:58,460 It could happen in Canada, it could happen anywhere as soon as there's a change in government. 417 00:40:58,460 --> 00:41:05,880 So I have to find the secret sauce of who will find us sexy? 418 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,080 And how can I make us more sexy? 419 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:18,040 So is it creating a new program where I'm helping more vulnerable communities such as 420 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:28,400 young people aging out of foster care, veterans, or Indigenous people, or more visible minorities 421 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,400 who have a tougher time finding jobs? 422 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:33,400 Absolutely. 423 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:44,120 That's, that's, to think that, you know, you find yourself in this situation with this, 424 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:50,960 it feels like sadistic, like, 425 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,960 It's cruel. 426 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,960 It's cruel. 427 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,960 It doesn't. 428 00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:03,960 It's like, what do you mean it's not sexy? 429 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:04,960 It's very sexy. 430 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,680 I've been told that several times. 431 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,400 You're not sexy. 432 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:15,320 It's a weird problem also to have in North America, you know, not that many people can 433 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:22,040 relate to how come, you know, you're having problem with, with, you know, serving English 434 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:23,640 speaking communities. 435 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:29,720 And it's just the, the crazy circumstances of living in Quebec. 436 00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:38,240 And, and thank you so much for sharing that struggle because I'm 100% sure that many of 437 00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:46,880 our listeners are facing some kind of same struggles and, and are thinking maybe I'm 438 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,800 the problem in this equation. 439 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:50,800 You know? 440 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:58,240 No, no, no, no, no, but it's, it's just, it's a question of finding the solution. 441 00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:04,040 And sometimes, you know, there's a lot of finger pointing. 442 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:05,040 I think it's important. 443 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,560 Well, first, let me, let me backtrack. 444 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,480 First of all, it's important to do a matrix, right? 445 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:19,160 So when you're fundraising, you have a pipeline, you want to know what is your success rate 446 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:24,600 and is your success rate getting better over time and why, right? 447 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:35,800 So I think that one person at the very least should be producing, let's say at the very 448 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,800 least 50 proposals a week, right? 449 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:46,600 And if, if they're all successful, that means you have twice the amount of work the following 450 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:47,600 year. 451 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:52,720 You have to be, you have to vision what's going to be your needs later on because that 452 00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:58,480 means you're going to have, you're going to be working twice as hard filling out reports 453 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:05,440 and as well as renewing applications or finding new people, right? 454 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:12,920 So you have to think along those lines and you have to think, okay, so if I'm constantly 455 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:22,760 getting rejected, speak to the people who have rejected you and ask them for their advice. 456 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:29,320 Their advice is free and people love to give advice. 457 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:34,120 And so that's what I've been doing is I'm, I'm, I'm asking people for advice actually 458 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:38,080 now I'm, we're doing a strategic plan. 459 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,880 We're interviewing people. 460 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,560 We're asking people, what do you think of our mission? 461 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,840 What would make it more interesting? 462 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:58,160 And I think that, you know, the, the crazy, crazy politics that we're in is that we would 463 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:07,880 be seen, the English speaking community would be seen as a partner in trying to promote 464 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:12,780 the French language and the culture as well. 465 00:45:12,780 --> 00:45:22,320 So how like, as they say in French, you cannot now, especially with the new laws that were 466 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:30,840 in place two years ago, you cannot get away with not speaking French because the language 467 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:38,400 of business for companies having 25 people or more has to be in French. 468 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,400 And that even includes us. 469 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:46,200 So we're at least 25 employees. 470 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:55,240 So that brings other interesting things because, you know, like even if you have an event planner 471 00:45:55,240 --> 00:46:04,320 who has to look for venues, you can't go out there and only speak English when you're looking 472 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:09,080 for a venue and your counterpart is a francophone. 473 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:13,280 It's, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's not done. 474 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:14,280 Right. 475 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:22,040 So I think everybody has to do their part in speaking French, but certainly being bilingual 476 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,880 or having more than two languages is extremely desirable. 477 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:27,880 Definitely. 478 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:35,120 And yeah, as you said, in this political climate, I think we should be investing in economic 479 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:36,120 development. 480 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:41,240 I think again, incontournable. 481 00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:50,040 I want to talk about that step of crafting a story and a compelling case and maybe start 482 00:46:50,040 --> 00:47:00,200 with this problem that I think exists in the animal cause, which is, you know, how much 483 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:08,840 cruelty do I show on social media and how, you know, do I, do I show pictures of dogs, 484 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:16,520 cows, chickens, whatever, being in pain or being happy? 485 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:27,080 And I have had conversations where people have told me, you know, leaders of organizations, 486 00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:34,400 there is a, we don't like always peddling the, those negative emotions that come with 487 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:44,280 presenting difficult footage, but it does, you know, people do react more intensely to 488 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:49,800 that and get more engaged, but at the same time, you know, on the long-term, is that 489 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,920 a viable strategy? 490 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,280 So what are your thoughts on that? 491 00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:06,720 I think when someone, when you present a sad story, but then it has a solution, right, 492 00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:09,200 is much more compelling. 493 00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:16,280 So it's the same thing that goes for homeless people, like we, I started off by showing, 494 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:25,000 I remember the first picture I used was a picture of somebody sleeping in our garbage 495 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,080 sheds. 496 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:37,400 Very jarring situation, but I also used a before and after picture of this person sitting 497 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:44,360 on her bed in her brand new apartment. 498 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:50,440 I think, look, I mean, it's marketing, right? 499 00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:55,640 And you, is it a necessary evil to show the sad pictures? 500 00:48:55,640 --> 00:49:02,960 No, but I think you also have to listen to your donors who will then tell you, you know, 501 00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:08,360 I'm tired of always looking at haggard faces. 502 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:12,080 Can you show me smiling faces? 503 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,080 Right? 504 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:24,600 So I remember having that effect when we had a fundraising event and we had, we announced 505 00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:30,280 a million dollar gift from a donor. 506 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:40,360 And we had, it was like, you know, a simple three person band singing, Here Comes the 507 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,200 Sun from the Beatles. 508 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:51,160 And we flashed pictures of smiling women throughout the song. 509 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:56,120 It had such a profound, it touched everybody. 510 00:49:56,120 --> 00:50:02,560 There were like 300 people in the room and they were crying. 511 00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:11,760 You know, you don't cry so much when, like maybe the recipients, like I know I would 512 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:19,080 cry if somebody gave me a million dollar gift for my cause, but to have everybody crying 513 00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:28,280 in the room and then to see all these smiling pictures, some of them toothless, you know, 514 00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,840 it has, it depends. 515 00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:35,280 You have to listen and be intuitive to your audience. 516 00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:42,960 You know, I think you have to use all sorts of messaging as well. 517 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:47,480 Like you have to not forget to thank people. 518 00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:54,680 I think that's also important that not only to ask for money, but to send pictures of 519 00:50:54,680 --> 00:51:02,960 smiling dogs or animals or cats, because I believe that they smile too. 520 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,600 They really do. 521 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:07,120 And say thank you. 522 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:08,120 Yes. 523 00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:15,720 I think that for many people, there's an inclination to peddling into the more negative emotions, 524 00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:24,280 the outrage, the anger, the fear instead of, and there's another, we're overlooking the 525 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,360 positive ones and the power they could have and they could bring in. 526 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:34,760 I love this idea of mixing the two and giving a positive twist to that story. 527 00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:35,760 Yes. 528 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:36,760 I think it's genius. 529 00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:37,760 Yes. 530 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:43,880 As a matter of fact, I mean, I told you an example of what I did at the beginning, but 531 00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:50,280 more and more I was using positive stories like the women who went to school, the women 532 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:59,920 who got their kids back, the ones who got off of, went to drug rehab, are living clean. 533 00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:11,640 And you know, so I think it's more important to convey the positivity than what I started 534 00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,360 off with. 535 00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:21,120 Yes and people, you know, we're living in this same, you know, more or less negative 536 00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,840 atmosphere with the news cycle and all of that. 537 00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:35,440 So we're looking for places where we get our inspiring stories and definitely for the listener 538 00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:39,720 who is managing a nonprofit or a fundraiser. 539 00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:41,760 You could be that place for your book. 540 00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:56,000 I think also it's important to convey the good stories that were had because of a donation. 541 00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:01,760 And it makes people dream like I can be that person as well. 542 00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:09,880 So when the last organization that I worked for had its first million dollar gift, it 543 00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:17,920 made people dream and other people came out of the woodwork to also give their a million 544 00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,640 dollar gift or more. 545 00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:25,920 Yes, I absolutely love this advice. 546 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:33,040 We should feature other donors and share their stories and even give them the mic and let 547 00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:39,440 them talk about why they are donors and what made them support this cause. 548 00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,760 They're in the best position to do this. 549 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:43,760 Right. 550 00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:49,280 But I don't think I really answered your question about how do you craft a case, like let's 551 00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:50,800 say a case for support. 552 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,520 Is that what your question was at some point? 553 00:53:54,520 --> 00:54:03,360 So it's important to not only start with a powerful mission and story, but it's also 554 00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:07,560 important to define your problem clearly. 555 00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:16,240 Like what do you need to solve a problem? 556 00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:20,200 You use data. 557 00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:30,920 In my case, I would say 40% of young job seekers who are English speaking are struggling to 558 00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:37,480 find work due to language barriers or lack of experience. 559 00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,640 They need this and this type of support. 560 00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:45,280 It costs X amount of money. 561 00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,200 Explain your solution. 562 00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:56,320 And what is our success rate in the past? 563 00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:57,320 Right. 564 00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:06,840 We help over 2,000 job seekers land meaningful work every year and demonstrate an urgency. 565 00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:15,280 Like you have to look at your statistics to tell them our calls have increased by 27%. 566 00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:17,560 We can't keep up with demand. 567 00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:22,080 We need your support. 568 00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:26,640 And why would your gift make a difference? 569 00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:32,760 Sometimes especially in raising money for animal causes, it's small gifts. 570 00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:39,280 So what can you, you know, you break down the gift, the impact of a gift. 571 00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,120 So what does $50 give you? 572 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,120 What does $500 give you? 573 00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,680 What does $5,000 give you? 574 00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:56,320 And you just be inclusive to everybody and all types of donors will show up. 575 00:55:56,320 --> 00:56:03,200 Another question about the case is the medium we use to present that case. 576 00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,080 And you did mention traditional media. 577 00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:10,200 You also mentioned direct mail, which surprises a lot of people. 578 00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:11,200 Yeah. 579 00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:12,200 Especially young people. 580 00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:13,200 Yes. 581 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:23,240 There's still an older generation of people who still write out checks and donate to direct 582 00:56:23,240 --> 00:56:24,240 mail. 583 00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:28,960 We don't get as much direct mail as we used to. 584 00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:36,400 The rate of response is higher than in social media. 585 00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:40,080 But I guess it depends on the cause really. 586 00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:45,480 I would imagine that for the homeless. 587 00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:57,240 So the homeless, helping the homeless or food banks or poverty relief organizations tends 588 00:56:57,240 --> 00:57:05,000 to attract people who believe in their faith. 589 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:06,000 Right? 590 00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:10,840 They're either they come from all sorts of religions. 591 00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,560 They're faith based. 592 00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:20,880 And they have a deep belief in helping those who are disadvantaged and help. 593 00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:27,840 It's their beliefs to really help people out of difficult situations. 594 00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:33,320 I think when it comes to animal causes, it's probably the same thing. 595 00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:38,280 It's older people who probably are the donors. 596 00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:43,040 It's important to analyze your donor database. 597 00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:54,240 There are also companies that do that that will tell you who, like based on their postal 598 00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:59,320 codes, are they from wealthy neighborhoods? 599 00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:05,520 Do they have a lot of like their house could be worth a lot? 600 00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:07,400 Are they educated? 601 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:08,400 Are they elderly? 602 00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:14,920 Are they in an area that is frequented by a lot of elderly people? 603 00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:19,280 So I used to once work for our community foundation. 604 00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:21,880 I was the CEO. 605 00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:35,120 And we would do direct mail or advertising in magazines for seniors. 606 00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:44,760 Because the mission of the community foundation is to set up funds, funds that, you know, 607 00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:50,240 that where the assets stay in place, but the interest is given in perpetuity. 608 00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,800 So it's a form of plan giving. 609 00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,800 And so it's older people who are attracted to that. 610 00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,280 So where do you find the older people? 611 00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,840 And sure enough, you know, people would respond to direct mail. 612 00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,200 Yes, send me more information. 613 00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:12,480 And then they have a conversation with the plan giving director or officer and a contract 614 00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:17,840 assigned for, you know, maybe donating their house or other assets. 615 00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:25,160 I know that many animal nonprofits are on social media a lot. 616 00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:28,600 That's where I see many of them. 617 00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:37,280 And my feed, you know, as someone who supports this cause is just overcrowded with different 618 00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:39,880 animal nonprofits. 619 00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:49,920 And I do see their messaging and sometimes their fundraisers and how much, you know, 620 00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:53,900 their mission echoes each other. 621 00:59:53,900 --> 01:00:00,360 So for instance, you have a sanctuary based in Oregon, another one based in Quebec. 622 01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:01,360 But it's the same. 623 01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:05,960 It's a sanctuary for animals and with the same mission. 624 01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:16,680 And I guess maybe another question I had regarding that is how should you collaborate with other 625 01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:20,120 nonprofits in your fundraising? 626 01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:30,520 Maybe to avoid that other, you know, competition of, you know, attention or, you know, how 627 01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:32,840 do you interpret that situation? 628 01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:45,200 I think that what I can see from the animal charities is that they're very territorial. 629 01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:55,920 So for instance, one charity that helps animals is very much in a local newspaper and they 630 01:00:55,920 --> 01:01:04,040 have space that's given to them for free for adopting pets, right? 631 01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:06,360 And then people will go to their website. 632 01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:13,040 And if they're really interested in that charity and helping, you know, foster animals or donate, 633 01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:19,640 that's their go-to because it's part of the fabric of the community. 634 01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:26,240 So it's highly unlikely that for instance, a charity, an animal charity in Quebec will 635 01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:30,160 collaborate with another charity in Oregon. 636 01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:36,480 But it is interesting that if you are involved, very involved with the charity in Montreal, 637 01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:46,920 that you want to look at what are their ways of attracting new donors, right, to their 638 01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,760 charity that can be brought here. 639 01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:59,160 But I don't hear of so many stories of, I don't know, in the US, it's unusual in that 640 01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:07,240 people will come travel with pets all the way from Kentucky, like in the South, all 641 01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:09,320 the way to the North in New York City. 642 01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:14,520 There are plenty of pets also in New York City that need a home, right? 643 01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:27,840 So people, I think people realize that and they're more territorial and wanting to help 644 01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:31,240 a charity in their own community. 645 01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:38,280 So again, in Montreal, you'll have, you know, you'll have places in that are outside the 646 01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:42,760 island or at the west end of the... 647 01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:48,080 People are affected by their own community charities, but these charities will always 648 01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:53,040 become, will most likely always be small boutique charities. 649 01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:54,600 And that's okay. 650 01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:56,160 That's okay. 651 01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:57,820 Yeah. 652 01:02:57,820 --> 01:02:59,720 That's the weird thing about social media. 653 01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:04,560 You know, you don't feel like you belong to a certain place. 654 01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:11,080 Like you see, you develop a relationship with different charities that are not in your neighborhood 655 01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:13,840 or in your country. 656 01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:14,840 Right. 657 01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:15,840 Right. 658 01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:22,960 But yeah, well, there must be a lot of charities and it must take up a lot of one's time to 659 01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,960 do that, right? 660 01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:31,840 To pay attention to all these charities. 661 01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:34,480 I'm not implying that I do. 662 01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:36,160 Okay. 663 01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:41,360 Is there a ceiling for fundraising? 664 01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:42,360 A ceiling? 665 01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:43,360 What do you mean? 666 01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:44,360 In terms of capacity. 667 01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:53,360 So you mentioned how, you know, some sanctuaries, it's more of a boutique model because of the 668 01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:59,160 limitations of where you are and all of that. 669 01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:06,280 But how do you assess, you know, I'm the type of charity that will never grow past that 670 01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:15,600 and that's my ceiling and I should assess my success according to that. 671 01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:18,960 Is there a way to find that out? 672 01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:26,200 Well, I think it's, there's a way of finding that out by doing a feasibility study, right? 673 01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:34,680 Like a feasibility study is basically, usually it's done by a third party who will analyze 674 01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:42,520 your mission, see if people outside your regular group would be like, you kind of think, okay, 675 01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:47,320 who would I love to get as a donor? 676 01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:54,720 And so you ask these people, would you ever donate to my cause and what would I have to 677 01:04:54,720 --> 01:05:00,080 do for you to be interested in me? 678 01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,000 So there are consultants who do that. 679 01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:10,080 I'm also, I also do it with my own donors, like I'm well known enough that people will 680 01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:17,020 take my call to do that. 681 01:05:17,020 --> 01:05:25,600 But I think sometimes it's also then doing a strategic plan to see how can your mission 682 01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:33,920 change because you have to turn yourself into a pretzel to be something that you're not 683 01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:41,760 to change in order for people to donate even more, right? 684 01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:51,680 So one good example of a charity that I was the executive director of was a national charity 685 01:05:51,680 --> 01:06:00,760 whose model was to adopt kids, quote unquote adopt, it was a real adoption, kids from underperforming 686 01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:10,560 schools in challenged neighborhoods where there was a very low high school graduation 687 01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:18,720 rate, give them the same kids, like let's say from grade three up until grade 12, an 688 01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:26,760 afterschool program consisting of tutoring, mentorship and fun team activities to the 689 01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:27,760 same kids. 690 01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:33,160 It's a very expensive and long model. 691 01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:39,000 And that's an example of a boutique charity because not everybody is interested in that 692 01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:41,160 model, right? 693 01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,480 I mean, it'll work, it's great. 694 01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:58,200 It'll help a few thousand kids per year, but it's not an evergreen model. 695 01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:02,120 The group that you adopt is the only group that you adopt. 696 01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:07,440 If they graduate, will you adopt another group? 697 01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:13,600 And so the model was originally that it had to be a high net worth individual to do it, 698 01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:20,280 but who, not many people want to spend $1.2 million at the time, or it's probably more 699 01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:25,280 than that, over 10, 12 years to the same group of kids. 700 01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:26,720 And that was it, right? 701 01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:31,480 Well, you've helped people graduate from high school and you also help pay for their college 702 01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:37,320 education after that, but it doesn't appeal to everybody. 703 01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:39,760 But that's a boutique charity. 704 01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:40,760 Definitely. 705 01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:44,920 Marina, I don't want to take more of your time. 706 01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:51,320 Do you have any parting words, last advice before we end the recording? 707 01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:52,320 Just love what you do. 708 01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:53,320 That's it. 709 01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:54,320 That's all that's important. 710 01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:55,320 Love what you do. 711 01:07:55,320 --> 01:08:00,160 Thank you so much, Marina. 712 01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:08,640 Thank you very much, valuable advice, and I hope this podcast gets shared among, you 713 01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:16,680 know, in the animal cause and activists and leaders, because there's a need to do better 714 01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:19,360 fundraising that space. 715 01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:21,220 And yeah, so thank you. 716 01:08:21,220 --> 01:08:22,220 Thank you so much. 717 01:08:22,220 --> 01:08:23,220 You're very welcome. 718 01:08:23,220 --> 01:08:25,280 Thank you, everyone, for listening. 719 01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:29,640 I kindly invite you to share this podcast with the vegans you know. 720 01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:32,600 Let's encourage more people to take action. 721 01:08:32,600 --> 01:09:02,400 Again, thank you so much for caring, and I will see you next Tuesday for a new episode.