Welcome to The Vegan Report, my name is Ryan and today we are exploring the lives of micro
sanctuary owners.
And for those of you who don't know what a micro sanctuary is, the technical definition
is basically a sanctuary with 20 residents and less.
To discuss this topic, I have with me Jessica Wallace, founder of the farm micro sanctuary
located in Indiana, US.
Jessica is a returning guest, so welcome back Jessica.
Tracy Winter, founder of Sweet Peeps micro sanctuary from Alabama, US.
Welcome Tracy.
And Jimena Stevens, founder of Obstractus micro sanctuary situated in Cundimarca, Colombia.
So welcome Jimena.
Thank you Ryan.
Of course.
And my first question for all of you, you know, I did the same episode basically, but
with larger sanctuaries and the first question I asked them was, who is your star resident?
But you know, this time I want to ask you, who is the resident who's, you know, the mischievous
one?
You know, the little devil of your micro sanctuary and maybe let's start with you Tracy.
Sure.
So the hard part of this question is picking just one.
And I have to just say too, when I started, I really was a micro sanctuary.
I don't technically meet the definition at this point.
I'm closer to 50 residents at this point, but I do still have like several chickens
who live in the house.
And I think part of the like expanded definition of micro sanctuary is having companion animals
who are not traditionally seen as companion animals.
And I really have just embraced like the ethos of the micro sanctuary movement.
So sorry, just to say that at the outset.
So I guess the first resident who comes to mind, and again, there are many mischievous
people here, but the first one who comes to mind is a chicken named Esther, who has kind
of recently become a full time house chicken.
And so she's like on the loose a lot and causes like a lot of kind of chaos.
For one, I also have, there are many cats who live here.
And so there are many litter boxes around the house.
And we use this like wheat based kitty litter, which looks just like chicken food.
And so it kind of makes the chickens like crazy.
Like they think that there are massive bowls of food everywhere.
And so Esther, it's just a constant.
Like she spends some time in a playpen watching cartoons, but she spends a lot of time roaming
the house.
And it's pretty much like she goes to one litter box or she makes her way to one litter
box.
I go and I get her, I pick her up, I put her someplace safe.
Then she goes to the next litter box and she like makes the rounds.
She knows where they all are.
And when I pull her off of one, she goes to the next one.
She also like, she's very much like my dog.
Like the dog will do that too, but the dog will also, Abby's the dog, the single dog
here.
Abby, you know, if you leave the trash can out, you walk in and Abby's head is in the
trash can.
And Esther is the exact same.
She tries to steal the cat food.
She like chases the cats off.
She's just kind of constantly stirring up trouble, but she's so, so cute that I enjoy
it.
Amazing.
Thank you, Tracy.
Jessica.
So like Tracy, I have to say that we are no longer under 20 animals either.
We're at 43.
So we're about the same.
So and same here.
There's so many that get, that could be mischievous.
Nigel, our little rooster.
He's a little duklé.
He's actually sitting next to me in hopes that he won't crow the whole time because
the last time Ryan and I did one of these, he crowed the whole time.
And then also we have a goat named Abigail, who is the reason why I can't let guests go
in with the goats anymore because she likes to sneak up behind people and headbutt them.
And she's also really adept at opening gates.
So I have to really watch that I lash everything precisely or she will get the gate open.
So thank you, Jessica.
And finally, Jimena.
I think I can choose just one, but there are three, especially mischievous and in a different
ways.
There is carbon.
Carbon is in Spanish like coal because it's a black cow.
Everybody thinks she's a bull, but she's a cow because she don't have big others and
she have big horns.
Everybody thinks that she's a bull, but she's a very empowered girl.
So she's in charge of the security.
She's very territorial.
So when she's, they're all spoiled, but when we are running out of treats, she's like moving
her head so she get like crazy, I want more treats.
And she's one.
Belen is the biological daughter of Lola, who is the matriarchy of the sanctuary.
And she's very playful and she's very spoiled and she is like free spirit, but she loves
to jump.
We have a lot of trouble with the fences and she's like jumping all the time, but she's
600 kilos.
So she is very playful.
So you get out, sometimes you get scared because she doesn't measure her weight and her size.
And Florencia, she's very sweet, but she's kind of flirtatious.
She's like, there are a lot of cattle farms that surround us and she's like looking for
boys.
So they are the three more mysterious at the farm.
Thank you, Romana.
And my second question for you is about this concept of a micro sanctuary.
So Tracy, you touched on that talking about the ethos and the philosophy of the micro
sanctuary world.
So what actually is the difference between a sanctuary and the micro sanctuary?
And maybe let's start with you, Jessica.
So the micro sanctuary is really the idea is that you can be a micro sanctuary with
a very small number of animals, even one.
You're giving sanctuary to one.
And they are a lot of times treated as companion animals.
I know Tracy said she has chickens in her house.
I have two chickens in my house.
I have four goats in another room.
So that's a lot of it.
It's just you're able to give more individualized attention and more of that unique lifestyle
for those animals as opposed to a larger sanctuary where it's maybe more of a traditional farm
setting or outdoor setting versus what we do here.
So Tracy?
Yeah.
I'm echoing everything Jessica said.
And maybe just to add a couple thoughts I had, I think some of that idea of it could
be as few as one resident is this idea that in theory you can do it all with your own
resources.
So anybody can do it.
So we could almost all of us rescue a chicken or a rat who was being used in experimentation
or something.
And so just that you don't have to be a large sanctuary with a huge budget and a lot of
land to be able to give sanctuary and be an advocate.
I think we think of sanctuaries as like we're caring for the individual residents, but also
they are ambassadors for their species.
And you could have like, I don't know if you know Bree the rooster.
Bree and me I think is their social media.
But it's just one rooster and he lives in the house and his mom has written a book called
Bree and Me and has had some opportunities to get on to PBS programming, I think.
And so just with this one animal can change perceptions so dramatically.
But I hope that even as we've grown in number that like Jessica was talking about that there's
an opportunity to maybe give more individualized care when the numbers are small.
I think for me that's like kind of the biggest challenge is I'm still trying to give the
same level of care to every individual that I did when I only had a few, but now I have
like a million.
And it is a challenge.
But I also feel like that's you know, that's what we committed to.
And that's where I know I have to sorry, I'm going into like 12 different I'm going to
stop myself at the end of the sentence.
But that's like where I know that I need to limit my number is when I get to a point and
I'm there.
We're like, I can't give this level of care to any more animals.
But you know, so hard, so hard to say no, when there are so many.
But again, we're trying to change the system, you know, in addition to rescuing the individuals.
What about you, Jimena?
In our case, as a former dairy farm, and that was transformed into a vegan cow sanctuary.
We are a micro sanctuary because we just have to deal with the being in line with our financial
capacity.
We are self-founded micro sanctuary.
So we have to be responsible with to deal with the resources that we have to to keep
the animals that we are committed with the well-being of the animals.
We have no land, but since we went to bankruptcy when we quit the dairy business and all the
animals weren't ours because I think I have to explain that my husband was third generation
of cattle farmers.
And that's why we own a dairy farm.
We are artists.
We didn't work at the farm.
We were living in Canada before we started the sanctuary, but we came back for some reasons
related to the farm.
And at the end, we quit the business.
We couldn't keep that burden that it was too heavy in our conscience.
And we were vegan, but we had a dairy farm, so we couldn't rescue all the animals.
The National Agricultural Institute is our neighbor at the farm.
That institution has the IONOS all the time.
So we had to be very meticulous and committed with the law.
So we had to do some things that I can tell now, but the result is that we couldn't transform
ourselves into a sanctuary, but into a micro sanctuary.
In that way, our vision is to grow someday, but right now we are trying to get back into
our feet because these five years have been like we put our world upside down.
We are starting again, trying to get bigger.
But for now, that's the reason why we are a micro sanctuary and not a sanctuary.
That's an interesting point, the neighborhood of your micro sanctuary.
I think that all of you are in the countryside surrounded by actual farms exploiting animals.
What is it like to have a micro sanctuary in the middle of this world of animal exploitation?
Maybe let's start with you, Tracy.
Yeah.
I mean, so I live in Alabama.
Alabama is one of, and primarily we focus on chickens rescued from the meat industry.
Alabama is one of the largest chicken producers in the US and I assume in the world.
That's not so much my neighborhood, but the region, the culture in my immediate neighborhood,
which is very much the country, there are mostly a lot of cows.
Honestly, I love the sanctuary so much.
I have a big fence and a few acres and I just love what's happening here.
It feels like all living beings here are respected and loved.
But I honestly have a little bit of a fear of what's outside my fence.
I worry when I have to have somebody come fix the plumbing or something.
I've had people come to do work like that and sometimes they've made jokes about the
chickens looking tasty.
Or other times, I just have this fear that if people know what we're doing here, that
it puts the animals at risk.
It's a strange experience to be doing what we're doing here and feel so surrounded by
such a different culture and world where people see these beings who I love with my whole
life.
I would do anything for them, but to know that just on the other side of that gate,
it's like everybody who passes by sees them as food.
Jessica?
Yeah, so I kind of feel the same way.
I'm in a county that's very agricultural, so there's a multi-million dollar dairy down
the road from me.
I just learned a couple weeks ago that 20 miles away is a goat farm that has thousands
of goats.
And I actually saw them from the highway for the first time a few weeks ago and that's
how I knew that they were there.
And my hay delivery guy knows them and says, oh, they ship semi loads of goats to New York
every so often and that's horrifying to me.
So it's hard.
We want to get the word out to change hearts and change minds, but at the same time, I
don't have a big sign on our property.
We have a small sign on the gate and that's it because I want people to be able to find
me that need to find me, but I don't want every farmer driving down the road to notice
us either.
Because like you, Tracy, I feel like that's a threat a little bit and I worry about it.
So yeah, it's hard to be in the middle of it and it's hard to talk to people sometimes
because that disassociation is there.
Even people who think I'm doing a great thing, but they don't make the connection to what
they're eating or who they're eating.
So yeah, it's different.
It's not easy sometimes.
Thank you, Jessica.
Ximena, you talked about how you have the National Agriculture Association or something
just in your neighborhood.
Sounds very hostile.
And I also wonder, what is it like to have an animal sanctuary in Colombia?
Is veganism...
It's very hard.
I can relate with Jessica and Tracy about the fear because in Colombia cattle farming
is very important.
It's not just an industry, a powerful industry, but it was related with foreign military army
years ago.
They are very powerful.
So when you try to make a cultural transformation, people doesn't take it like, ah, that's cool.
No, it's like you want to change me.
You're crazy.
You're rebellious.
People doesn't like it.
At the beginning of the sanctuary, it was at the same time of the pandemic.
Our sanctuary was vandalized a few times.
We were always with the fear that because if they broke some pipes or steal some machinery
or whatever, it doesn't matter.
But we were always afraid that they make harm to the or hurt the girls, the cows.
So it was difficult to deal with.
That's why I was saying before that we are just like put again ourselves on our feet
because it was not just bankruptcy, but all the attacks that we had at the beginning.
Even from my husband's family, they are all cattle farmers.
And right now in Colombia, there is a debate.
In fact, tomorrow is the final debate of the Congress about bullfighting.
And our neighbor at the farm is one of the main bullfighting lawyers.
He owns, in fact, the main bullfighting ring in Bogota has his last name, Santa Maria.
So it has been difficult.
It has been a difficult path.
But I think we were able to do it.
And right now we are feeling more comfortable.
And that's why we are planning to move to the farm with the cattle.
So we are not depending on someone or feeling that fear.
But if we are there, I think we can feel more comfortable and safe being all the time with
the animals.
So but it's always the there are nice people, but there are always the people with the prejudice
that you're crazy and you're trying to you're a hippie.
Like they say in Colombia, you're a weed smoker, like marihuanero.
So like crazy once the sanctuary was broadcasted at the TV national news.
Some people were like insulting us or saying like ugly things.
So but I think that is part of the choice that we made trying to promote a cultural
transformation that respect and having into account animal lives.
So I think this is the price and we were we were willing to assume that and we are in
that in that way.
So obviously, the animal rights scene in Colombia is not that, you know, developed.
But even in the US, it's sorry that I interrupted.
But it's ironically, we had some politicians or animal, I don't know how to say it in English,
animalist or animal rights activist, animal rights activist.
Exactly.
We are moving in some directions.
We are it's difficult, for example, to to ban livestock export.
So it's difficult.
But we have politicians that are trying to to do it.
And right now, tomorrow is the final debate for ban to ban bullfighting.
And last last week, we had the Congress and the president signed a law to sterilization
campaign for cats and dogs all over the country.
So it's it's ironic.
It's ironic because there is a strong animal for animal rights movement.
But at the same time, it's a cattle country.
And right now we have the issue about the hippopotamus.
We have some hippos in Colombia and some some people want to kill them.
But animal rights activists don't allow them to do that.
So I animals have some strong voices here.
But this difficult is like 50 50.
Yeah, my my mistake.
But the point I wanted to reach is, you know, there is a level of difficulty of challenge
to opening a micro sanctuary, even in a country like the US, where it's not a cattle country.
You know, you have more diversity in the economy, I guess.
But the question I want to get by and feel free to address any points I make or I made
is, you know, is a is the micro sanctuary movement an invitation for people to open
their own micro sanctuary?
And if it is the case, you know, what would you have to say to those people?
And who wants to take the mic first?
I say that I will advise that a do it a week, had a plan and do it then because we didn't
did it that way.
We decide one day and 10 days later, we weren't milking.
And it was a farm that was milking for 50 years and in 10 days, we did it.
So that's because we had that in to do.
We had a mind to do it a lot of years.
We didn't do it.
And one day my husband said is today or is never.
We did it.
And it was because we have partners, his family.
So it was difficult.
So I will advise people to do it, but have a plan, have a financial plan and be responsible.
We are the first lady farm transformed into a sanctuary in Colombia.
There is other a cattle farmer who became in to a sanctuary in Antioquia.
This other part of Colombia, but there are few sanctuaries.
There is one big center in Colombia, but it's difficult because everybody do it in the way
they they can.
They deal with the situation the way they can.
So I don't we are not open to the public because I don't want to be a zoo or a circus or wherever.
But some people do it.
I want to move to the farm and start a way to make the sanctuary sustainable.
We are doing this five years after starting.
So I will advise to do it with a plan.
How do you want to do it?
You want to be self-funded?
You want to be funded by some people or how do you want to do it in Colombia?
It's difficult, especially with farm animals, because everybody loves cats and dogs, but
people eat pigs, it's cows, it's sheep.
So with cows is difficult.
And especially if you're not rescuing all the time, because people like to see the show,
like the animal in a very bad situation and then he was improving.
For us is difficult because our cows are living a happy life.
They have been always happy, loved, respected.
So it's like for people it's like you don't need help.
So but if you see an animal that needs instant help, that is dying, that it needs urgent
medical attention, so it's different.
So I would like to promote in the future a program so people as farmers can change, can
transform because I think that like us, new generations that have an awakening, a conscious
awakening and don't have to make a living exploding animals and make a living from the
suffering and death of other animals can make a living because that is the point.
Not everybody is willing like us to, okay, let's do it and see what happens.
We went broke in bankruptcy and our career as artists was affected.
So it's important to have a financial plan, to have support and it will be nice that in
the US there is the Ranch Advocacy Program and there is a program to microcentraries
to make that transformation.
But here we are pioneers and we don't have that support.
We don't know anything about agriculture so it's not like we could cattle and we are
going to lease most of our land to survive because we didn't know how to survive in agriculture.
So that is so important to have a plan, to be responsible and to because it's a commitment
for life with the animals, it's not like we rescue, it's a sanctuary, it's a place where
animals live for the rest of their lives and you have to take care of them for everything.
People sometimes don't know that a cow or other animals have different, when people
say like, oh cows are like puppies, I'm saying no, they are not like puppies, they deserve
the same respect, they have the same right to live, but they are 500, 600 kilos so they
have different needs.
They need land, they need pastures, they need water, they need other things.
So you have to be responsible for how many animals you are able to have.
Thank you.
Jessica?
Yeah, I think we could encourage more people to be micro sanctuary.
It's such a great way to feel like you are doing something.
I know so many people feel a little helpless about it.
The problem is so big, right?
It's astronomical and it's overwhelming.
But I know for me, when I started the sanctuary here, that was, I had to, I had to do something.
So I think that gives people a way to do it.
And like Jimena said, you got to have a plan, always a good idea.
And be financially responsible.
We are at our limit for animals now.
I always want to, even though we do take donations and we are a nonprofit, I always want to know
that if that went away, I could still take care of everybody.
So I still work a full time job besides taking care of everybody and know that it would get
tight for sure, but I could still take care of everybody if that failed for whatever reason.
That part of doing a nonprofit is scary.
Having to rely on other people for that and that's not guaranteed.
So yeah, I just, I think, like she said, you have to have a plan, but it's, you know, you
can make such a huge difference for that one animal or a couple animals that you take in.
And it's so satisfying and yeah, just, it makes you feel good, right?
It makes you feel like you're making a difference and you're helping.
And so I think that's something that more people could do and feel like they're making
a difference.
Yeah, we need more of that.
I mean, every time I see social media conversations, you know, of vegans, there's always someone
expressing their feeling of depression and existential crisis of having to confront the
fact that animal exploitation exists.
So Tracy, what is your answer?
Well, yeah, so I agree.
I think, especially, you know, when you really talk about a microsanctuary as a micro, like
a real microsanctuary, I think, you know, then it is like, I think, again, part of the
maybe like original sort of definition is like something that you can do with your own
resources and whatever those resources are.
I mean, I think that the hard part is limiting yourself, which like, again, when I first
took in my, I had dogs and cats, you know, I had already a lot of dogs and cats, of course,
all rescues.
And then I took in my first group of chickens.
And for one, I was just like very misled.
Like, if you look online, and you'll see like the back there, chicken forms, they will lie
to you and tell you that having chickens is cheap and easy.
And that is just absolutely the opposite of the truth.
So I didn't really quite know what I was getting myself into.
I also had this delusion that people would just like want to throw money to help me take
care of these animals.
And that's not true.
Like, so to echo what everyone else is saying is, and again, you know, this is kind of the
idea of a microsanctuary is that in theory, you do it with your own resources.
But I think a lot of people start sanctuaries and they just assume that they're going to
be able to raise enough money.
They don't have a backup plan.
And then that can go very bad very quickly.
So I think, you know, there are a lot of like caveats about doing it.
But I think that if you are, if you have a plan and you are and you really limit yourself,
like only take in animals who you know how to care for and like educate yourself before
taking them in on how to care for them.
And there are some really good like there's an open sanctuary project has some like amazing
care guidelines.
And I, you know, so because I had no idea how to take care of chickens, I just am so
grateful that I knew sanctuary people also because most of my chickens are rescued from
the meat industry, they're cornish crosses and they require very different care from
like a more, you know, like natural breed.
They're so genetically manipulated that if you don't give them very special care, like
they won't survive for more than a year or so.
And my oldest are now will be six and a couple of months.
And that is like 100% because I got connected to like the right people early on to find
out, you know, to learn what I needed to do to take care of them.
But it was a it was it was much more than I knew I was getting myself into.
But I think like another real benefit besides like the animals that that we can, you know,
the individuals who we can help and it's that thing like every individual life matters.
And so even if you can only take in like one or two, you're saving that life.
But also because of social media and like we have all these other opportunities to just
advocate for their whole species.
But also, like, I feel like I am such a better advocate for chickens in particular, because
that's who I you know, that's mostly what we you know, who we focus on here is chickens.
I also before I had the sanctuary, I would volunteer at other sanctuaries.
I was always really interested in the cows and the pigs and the goats and the sheep.
And I really was not interested in the avian species.
And now that I know them, like I know that there are these incredible little people with
so much personality and they are so worthy of our, you know, of our respect and our love
and our care and our compassion.
And I, you know, it's like knowing them as a sanctuary, you develop these like long term
deep relationships where you can get to know them as individuals so well.
And then to be able to, it's a thing of like, you know, often in our advocacy, we'll talk
about like being a voice for the voiceless.
But like when we live with the animals, we know that they have voices and we learn to
understand what they're saying.
And then I think that just makes us such better advocates for them.
And you don't need to rescue 100 animals, you know, to develop that.
So I think for a lot of reasons, I do think that there's like great value in starting
a micro sanctuary, but with all the caveats that like, you know, everybody echoed about
having a plan, staying within your resources as hard as that can be.
Here's a weird question.
And, you know, I'll just ask it, you know, who are those animals for us?
You know, are they our friends?
Are they, you know, family?
I feel like there are words lacking in every language to describe, you know, maybe the
kind of relationships we build when we decide to look at animals as people because they
are of another species.
And for as long as humans have lived, we treated them as food or we hunted them or something
like that.
And then, you know, the relationship or the interaction, because it's not a relationship,
is clearly defined.
But when we have a sanctuary, when we are vegan, when we are animal rights activists
and we care for them, then what do those animals become for us?
And so let's start with you, Tracy.
Is it a good question to ask?
Am I just rambling here?
Yeah, I know.
I think it's a great question.
And it's funny because I think that, like, I actually, I often do struggle a little bit
myself with the language, like, because I think the animals 100% feel like my family.
So I do think, I think, you know, I mean, it is so relational.
Like, I think there are a lot of, you know, a lot of people who couldn't call the animals
their family, right?
But especially, I don't know, the way that, yeah, I mean, the feeling of the way I feel
about them.
I mean, in fact, it's like that thing of, it's kind of like how you would feel about
an ideal family.
Like, there are a lot of us who have like very complicated relationships with our actual
human families.
And with the animals, there's not that complication.
It's much more like uncomplicated, unconditional love.
And it's like maybe the, it is sort of the ideal form of family, but with these non-human,
you know, with another species, I also feel very much that they're my friends.
But a friend often doesn't feel like it conveys the intimacy and like the deep love.
Because it is such a deep love.
They're my loves.
And some of them, though, you know, it's that thing too, they're all such individuals, right?
Like, there's some, some are, actually, some are maybe a little bit more like complicated
family relationships.
Like I have one chicken, Jane, who just is, she's just, I don't know, bossy and sassy.
And she's kind of a little bit mean, actually.
Like, she does try to bite me all the time, like, and I'm just always like, you know,
it's like, oh, you dirty human, like, don't, you can't make it up to me.
Don't smile at me.
I know your people.
And like, okay, that's fine.
So with her, it's maybe like a little bit more of a complicated family, but still, I
think still she feels like family.
I mean, I guess like the one other thing I'll just say about like language and what we call
them is that I do often call them my kids.
And I understand though how like that can be a little bit demeaning.
Like there, a lot of them are full grown adults, but I often think of it like, but it's like,
I'm 50 years old and I'm still my mother's kid.
And like, it's again, it's like our relationship.
Like I see them as, you know, very, you know, autonomous beings who are fully mature.
And I try to respect that.
But also just because of the relationship that we have, I feel like they are my kids.
And just in the way that I as a 50 year old woman am my mother's kid.
And so I feel like it's not disrespectful or demeaning, even though that language can
kind of undermine, you know, the fullness of their personhood.
Thank you, Tracy.
Jimena, what about you when you see the cows or your cats?
What do you think or feel?
How I think they feel?
Yes.
How do you see them?
It's family.
They are my family.
They are like, I don't know, like daughters.
We are a matriarchy.
We are all girls, almost all.
There are only two guys, my husband and Leo, but we are all, we are a lot of ladies.
So a family.
What about you, Jessica?
You talked about, you know, companion animals.
What does this word mean?
So, yeah, I mean, they're family.
But I guess, like Tracy said, you know, family can be, Nigel's decided to start crowing.
So anyway, I don't know if I would call them a friend or family.
It's just there's such an individual relationship with each of them.
And everybody's personality is so different and knowing all those personalities.
And like Tracy, I have a couple of maybe bossy or opinionated.
Nigel is very loud.
Don't worry, I will edit it out.
So but they are family.
And sometimes they feel like more than family.
You know, Jack was my whole world, which, you know, we lost him two weeks ago.
My whole life revolved around him.
And we had, you know, we bickered and we had days where maybe we were annoyed with each
other.
But we always, you know, spent all of our time together and loved each other.
And so, yeah, they're just there's relationships, whether it's family or friend, or a combination
of all of that.
Yeah, that's that's how I would say it.
And I want to also ask, you know, we talked about threats and, you know, challenges to
micro sanctuaries.
But overall, when you look at the future, what is, you know, the future of the micro
sanctuary movement?
Do you see that increasing?
Do you see more people adopting this model and opening a micro sanctuary?
If yes, then that makes you, you know, the leaders of that movement.
You know, historically, you're the first generation basically to open such sanctuaries.
And also, you know, on more of a macro level, how do you see the future of animal rights
and veganism?
Are we progressing?
Are we, you know, moving forward toward a shining future?
Or maybe you're less optimistic, Jessica?
Well, it probably depends on what day you ask me as to how optimistic I am.
So what we see in sanctuaries in this country, the larger sanctuaries is there's been a lot
of them that have failed in the last few years.
We've seen some pretty big disasters with animals getting neglected or, you know, having
to close down and re-home and that puts more strain on everybody else.
So I feel like the micro sanctuary idea is actually a better way to do it.
Yes, the bigger ones, you can reach so many people as far as advocacy.
But like Tracy said, with social media, you know, we can reach a lot of people even being
small, you know.
There are lots of people who follow us on Instagram all over the world who know, you
know, are animals by name and by sight.
And that, you know, that opens hearts, changes minds.
I am optimistic.
I think it's very slow progress, but I think it's getting there.
You know, I can have conversations with people now in my, I've been vegan for four years
and it's easier to have those conversations.
I think people are more willing to at least listen.
Not everybody, but I've been able to talk to people a little bit more this last year.
And I think, you know, with it becoming more open knowledge that it can make such a difference
for the planet and climate and all of that, I think more people are going to be willing
to at least try it and open their minds a little bit to it.
So I'm hopeful.
I know it's going to be very slow.
The progress is not fast.
I mean, it probably won't be in my lifetime because like Tracy, I'm almost 50.
So but I'm optimistic.
Thank you, Jessica.
Thank you, Mina.
I think that most important than the micro sanctuary scene is our main mission is to
promote cultural transformation.
I think that more important that there are, it's important for the few animals we can
save, but if there are a lot of micro sanctuaries, we can save all the animals that the big industry
is killing every day.
So I think that most important than that is our cultural transformation and keep advocating
for the animals and changing minds and changing their consumption habits.
Because we all are optimistic because we are doing this, but some days are difficult when
you see the images and you see someone very close to me works in a food company in Arizona.
She was telling me that in the US, the meat consumption is growing.
So it was like this hard thing for me because I'm putting my life in this and saying that
that monster is like what I'm doing here.
But I think that it's growing at the same time.
They advocate the people that are going vegan and at the same time, the industry is growing
because in the US, the consumption is growing, in China is growing, but in some countries
is less.
UK is consuming more plant-based food, the same in Germany, in some countries that they
have limited resources.
I think that maybe because Canada or here in this continent, North and South America,
we are so abundant in resources, we don't realize what are we doing to…
I'm vegan for the animals, but we are killing our planet with our animal agriculture.
So we don't realize that in some places like UK, like in Europe, the resources are very
limited and they are going, changing their minds.
So I think that in some universities, the food offer is going plant-based.
So I think we…
I would like to say it faster, it's difficult, but I think that if people don't make a change,
the planet will make it for us.
So I hope that people change their minds before it's too late, but at the same time, it's
so painful to see all the animals suffering in that way.
So it will be nice to see more micro-centuaries, but I think that the most important thing
that we can do is spread the message of respecting animal lives, that we don't need to tweet
or to wear or test things in animals, that we can have a happy and full life without
exploiting animals or make them suffer.
Thank you, Ximena.
Tracy, how is the future for you?
Bleak, shining?
Well, I think like Jessica said, it kind of depends maybe on the day.
And like Ximena was just talking about, I see that the vegan movement is growing, but
simultaneously the number of animals being killed for food is also growing.
And that's hard.
It's obviously a problem that's like so overwhelming.
And I really do think that there are some really hopeful things happening.
I think the whole alt meat, this kitty, by the way, is so cute and that little tongue
sticking out, it's like, I don't know, impossibly cute.
So there are these things happening like alt meats.
And I think that's really exciting.
And I think that's part of making it easier for people to switch their diets.
But I don't think that it's enough.
I think technological fixes will be helpful to transition the world to a plant-based diet.
And it's also, right, it's like we focus so much on the farm animals in part because the
numbers are so large, and that is where the bulk of the suffering is.
But I do think that we need like, Ximena is talking about, we need cultural change.
We need a total paradigm shift.
And I do think that sanctuaries have a role to play in that because I do think that as
much as I can be very discouraged about human nature, and we've been, as a movement, we've
been trying to show people for decades who these animals are and the horrors that they're
going through.
And it's like, you think, is there anybody who still doesn't know?
And if people know and they're not changing them, they just don't care.
And that's all very hard.
And I think that the whole alt-meat movement, I think in a large part, it's like an attempt
to just bypass our morality.
We're not ethical enough to change, but maybe if we give people this meat alternative that's
cheap and tastes good, then maybe people will do it.
But it's kind of like expecting people to change just for moral reasons is like, that's
not working for us.
That said, I do think it's an essential part of saving the animals, of saving the world.
I do think we need to just make this major shift.
And I think sanctuaries have this unique role to play in that by sharing stories and letting
people know who these animals are and why it matters.
Why it matters that there are trillions of them suffering.
But I think it's that thing too, is you hear the numbers and it is so overwhelming.
And what's that quote?
I'm terrible with quotes, but something like once...
I think it was like a Stalin quote, but it was like one million starving people is a
statistic.
One starving child will move people.
Again, I'm really sorry.
A tragedy, something like that.
Oh, that's good.
It's like this idea that it's like too many numbers and it's just people's eyes roll on
the back of their heads and they don't care.
But you present like one starving child or one hurting animal and people care.
And I think sanctuaries have this opportunity to tell those personal stories that will hopefully
open people's hearts.
And I do fundamentally, honestly believe that there is goodness in all...
That we are born good, that there's goodness in us and that it's mostly conditioning and
cultural conditioning and what's been handed down by our families.
But that has brought us to where we are and I think it can change.
It's just so kind of like the train is moving so fast and how do you stop it and redirect
course and it's a lot.
But I think we have to keep trying.
I mean, I 100% am nowhere near like, oh, there's no point in trying.
I have to believe that we can change and that the future is vegan.
And I'm also as old as I am, I'm not willing to say, I can't accept that it won't happen
in my lifetime.
I feel like it has to happen in my lifetime.
I have to believe that it can.
Amazing.
So I think those would be great answers to end this recording.
But first, before I stop the recording, how can we support you?
How can listeners support you?
Let's start with you, Jessica.
Yeah.
So we're on Instagram and Facebook so we can always donate through our pages.
If you can't donate, then just sharing our posts and commenting and helping the silly
algorithm that we all fight every day on there is helpful.
We also do Patreon.
So that's a platform where they can donate monthly.
They can sponsor an animal.
We do that through the Patreon.
We're actually in the middle of designing our website finally.
So there'll be that as a platform as well in the future, but primarily it's through
social media right now.
So they can find all the ways to donate by going to our social media pages.
Thank you, Jessica.
Ximena.
The same as Jessica, following, liking and sharing as our mission is to spread the message
for us that is very important.
Financially how to support us?
We have a PayPal account and we are artists.
We depend on the sales of our art.
So that's a more important thing for us to sell our art so we can keep making a living
for those girls that eat a lot.
And that's, I think that right now it's the way we, as we told you before, I was, we were
planning to move to the farm and make some workshops about vegan food and I love cooking.
I think I'm good doing it.
So I want to share that knowledge that I have in learning by myself when becoming vegan
so at that point I think that it will be nice that people can come here.
We want to make a room to receive, to get some visitors.
So but right now it's PayPal following and spreading the message.
Tracy.
Yeah, thank you.
Okay.
So yeah, so we're Sweet Peeps Micro Sanctuary.
We have a website which is www.sweetpeeps.org.
Facebook, Instagram, you can find us at Sweet Peeps Micro Sanctuary.
Same as everybody said, you can donate, you can sponsor animals for the website, sharing,
liking.
I have a children's book coming out in a couple of weeks about, based on the chickens here.
The name of the book is Chickens Are Animals Too, Fanny Goes to Washington.
So if you follow the page, I'll be putting out information about the book, but you should
be able to find it anywhere and all of the proceeds will go to the animals because all
of my money goes to the animals.
So that's a good guarantee.
But yeah, like Humana said, it's like more than anything, just wanting to get the message
out, wanting people to get to know these animals and realize that they are sentient beings
who we should love and respect and not eat.
Thank you so much for asking and for having this conversation and for everything that
you do and for highlighting us.
I appreciate it so much.
Of course.
And thank you everyone for being an inspiration and for doing the hard work you're doing.
Truly it was very educative and just awesome to hear you talk about your experiences.
And you have such insightful reflections on the animal protection movement and what it
means to be at the forefront of that.
So thank you so much for having accepted my invitation.
Thank you.
It was very nice to share this evening with you.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah.
Thank you all of you.
I mean, yeah.
And Jessica and Humana, so nice to get to know what you're doing.
And I'm so happy to meet you and just to connect with all of you.
Because I also think that that's so much a part of creating a vegan world.
None of us are going to do it alone.
And it's like connecting with other people with the same mission.
So thank you all for everything.
Thank you all.
You are doing a great job and also we are spreading this word with this podcast.
There is information and education also.
It's very useful for this movement.
So it was very nice to see you to share with you all.
Well, it's my pleasure, truly.
Thank you everyone for listening.
I kindly invite you to share this podcast with the vegans you know.
Let's encourage more people to take action.
Again, thank you so much for caring and I will see you next Tuesday for a new episode.