1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,120 Welcome to The Vegan Report, my name is Ryan and today we are exploring the lives of micro 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,160 sanctuary owners. 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:13,160 And for those of you who don't know what a micro sanctuary is, the technical definition 4 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,320 is basically a sanctuary with 20 residents and less. 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:23,640 To discuss this topic, I have with me Jessica Wallace, founder of the farm micro sanctuary 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,240 located in Indiana, US. 7 00:00:26,240 --> 00:00:29,920 Jessica is a returning guest, so welcome back Jessica. 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:36,360 Tracy Winter, founder of Sweet Peeps micro sanctuary from Alabama, US. 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:37,820 Welcome Tracy. 10 00:00:37,820 --> 00:00:45,580 And Jimena Stevens, founder of Obstractus micro sanctuary situated in Cundimarca, Colombia. 11 00:00:45,580 --> 00:00:46,580 So welcome Jimena. 12 00:00:46,580 --> 00:00:48,380 Thank you Ryan. 13 00:00:48,380 --> 00:00:50,000 Of course. 14 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:55,720 And my first question for all of you, you know, I did the same episode basically, but 15 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:04,760 with larger sanctuaries and the first question I asked them was, who is your star resident? 16 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:12,200 But you know, this time I want to ask you, who is the resident who's, you know, the mischievous 17 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:13,200 one? 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:21,600 You know, the little devil of your micro sanctuary and maybe let's start with you Tracy. 19 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:22,600 Sure. 20 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,960 So the hard part of this question is picking just one. 21 00:01:26,960 --> 00:01:34,600 And I have to just say too, when I started, I really was a micro sanctuary. 22 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,400 I don't technically meet the definition at this point. 23 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:48,320 I'm closer to 50 residents at this point, but I do still have like several chickens 24 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:49,320 who live in the house. 25 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:56,920 And I think part of the like expanded definition of micro sanctuary is having companion animals 26 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,760 who are not traditionally seen as companion animals. 27 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,840 And I really have just embraced like the ethos of the micro sanctuary movement. 28 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:10,120 So sorry, just to say that at the outset. 29 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:18,720 So I guess the first resident who comes to mind, and again, there are many mischievous 30 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:26,400 people here, but the first one who comes to mind is a chicken named Esther, who has kind 31 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,800 of recently become a full time house chicken. 32 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:40,440 And so she's like on the loose a lot and causes like a lot of kind of chaos. 33 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:46,360 For one, I also have, there are many cats who live here. 34 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,240 And so there are many litter boxes around the house. 35 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:55,880 And we use this like wheat based kitty litter, which looks just like chicken food. 36 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,680 And so it kind of makes the chickens like crazy. 37 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,400 Like they think that there are massive bowls of food everywhere. 38 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,160 And so Esther, it's just a constant. 39 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:11,860 Like she spends some time in a playpen watching cartoons, but she spends a lot of time roaming 40 00:03:11,860 --> 00:03:12,900 the house. 41 00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:17,040 And it's pretty much like she goes to one litter box or she makes her way to one litter 42 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:18,040 box. 43 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,400 I go and I get her, I pick her up, I put her someplace safe. 44 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,600 Then she goes to the next litter box and she like makes the rounds. 45 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:24,600 She knows where they all are. 46 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,960 And when I pull her off of one, she goes to the next one. 47 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,200 She also like, she's very much like my dog. 48 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:35,040 Like the dog will do that too, but the dog will also, Abby's the dog, the single dog 49 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:36,040 here. 50 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,960 Abby, you know, if you leave the trash can out, you walk in and Abby's head is in the 51 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:40,960 trash can. 52 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,880 And Esther is the exact same. 53 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,240 She tries to steal the cat food. 54 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,040 She like chases the cats off. 55 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:59,400 She's just kind of constantly stirring up trouble, but she's so, so cute that I enjoy 56 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:00,400 it. 57 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:01,400 Amazing. 58 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,400 Thank you, Tracy. 59 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:04,740 Jessica. 60 00:04:04,740 --> 00:04:13,600 So like Tracy, I have to say that we are no longer under 20 animals either. 61 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,060 We're at 43. 62 00:04:15,060 --> 00:04:18,600 So we're about the same. 63 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:24,480 So and same here. 64 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,720 There's so many that get, that could be mischievous. 65 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,060 Nigel, our little rooster. 66 00:04:31,060 --> 00:04:33,500 He's a little duklé. 67 00:04:33,500 --> 00:04:39,680 He's actually sitting next to me in hopes that he won't crow the whole time because 68 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:45,680 the last time Ryan and I did one of these, he crowed the whole time. 69 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:53,240 And then also we have a goat named Abigail, who is the reason why I can't let guests go 70 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:59,200 in with the goats anymore because she likes to sneak up behind people and headbutt them. 71 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,680 And she's also really adept at opening gates. 72 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:11,040 So I have to really watch that I lash everything precisely or she will get the gate open. 73 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,260 So thank you, Jessica. 74 00:05:13,260 --> 00:05:14,720 And finally, Jimena. 75 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:23,840 I think I can choose just one, but there are three, especially mischievous and in a different 76 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:24,840 ways. 77 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:25,840 There is carbon. 78 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:31,480 Carbon is in Spanish like coal because it's a black cow. 79 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:36,600 Everybody thinks she's a bull, but she's a cow because she don't have big others and 80 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,000 she have big horns. 81 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:48,620 Everybody thinks that she's a bull, but she's a very empowered girl. 82 00:05:48,620 --> 00:05:51,280 So she's in charge of the security. 83 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:54,180 She's very territorial. 84 00:05:54,180 --> 00:06:05,080 So when she's, they're all spoiled, but when we are running out of treats, she's like moving 85 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:11,440 her head so she get like crazy, I want more treats. 86 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:12,440 And she's one. 87 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:23,960 Belen is the biological daughter of Lola, who is the matriarchy of the sanctuary. 88 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:32,560 And she's very playful and she's very spoiled and she is like free spirit, but she loves 89 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,120 to jump. 90 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:41,880 We have a lot of trouble with the fences and she's like jumping all the time, but she's 91 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,000 600 kilos. 92 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,060 So she is very playful. 93 00:06:47,060 --> 00:06:58,440 So you get out, sometimes you get scared because she doesn't measure her weight and her size. 94 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:05,200 And Florencia, she's very sweet, but she's kind of flirtatious. 95 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:12,760 She's like, there are a lot of cattle farms that surround us and she's like looking for 96 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:13,760 boys. 97 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:22,440 So they are the three more mysterious at the farm. 98 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:23,640 Thank you, Romana. 99 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:29,440 And my second question for you is about this concept of a micro sanctuary. 100 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:36,560 So Tracy, you touched on that talking about the ethos and the philosophy of the micro 101 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,360 sanctuary world. 102 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:44,720 So what actually is the difference between a sanctuary and the micro sanctuary? 103 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,280 And maybe let's start with you, Jessica. 104 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:58,620 So the micro sanctuary is really the idea is that you can be a micro sanctuary with 105 00:07:58,620 --> 00:08:02,840 a very small number of animals, even one. 106 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,880 You're giving sanctuary to one. 107 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:10,960 And they are a lot of times treated as companion animals. 108 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,200 I know Tracy said she has chickens in her house. 109 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:14,680 I have two chickens in my house. 110 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,880 I have four goats in another room. 111 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:23,000 So that's a lot of it. 112 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:29,920 It's just you're able to give more individualized attention and more of that unique lifestyle 113 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:38,640 for those animals as opposed to a larger sanctuary where it's maybe more of a traditional farm 114 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:46,480 setting or outdoor setting versus what we do here. 115 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:47,480 So Tracy? 116 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:48,480 Yeah. 117 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,400 I'm echoing everything Jessica said. 118 00:08:52,400 --> 00:09:01,640 And maybe just to add a couple thoughts I had, I think some of that idea of it could 119 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:12,280 be as few as one resident is this idea that in theory you can do it all with your own 120 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:13,280 resources. 121 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:14,280 So anybody can do it. 122 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:26,960 So we could almost all of us rescue a chicken or a rat who was being used in experimentation 123 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:27,960 or something. 124 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:34,960 And so just that you don't have to be a large sanctuary with a huge budget and a lot of 125 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:40,840 land to be able to give sanctuary and be an advocate. 126 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:47,080 I think we think of sanctuaries as like we're caring for the individual residents, but also 127 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,680 they are ambassadors for their species. 128 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:56,680 And you could have like, I don't know if you know Bree the rooster. 129 00:09:56,680 --> 00:10:01,040 Bree and me I think is their social media. 130 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:09,000 But it's just one rooster and he lives in the house and his mom has written a book called 131 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:17,280 Bree and Me and has had some opportunities to get on to PBS programming, I think. 132 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:24,520 And so just with this one animal can change perceptions so dramatically. 133 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:29,640 But I hope that even as we've grown in number that like Jessica was talking about that there's 134 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:34,920 an opportunity to maybe give more individualized care when the numbers are small. 135 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:39,160 I think for me that's like kind of the biggest challenge is I'm still trying to give the 136 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:44,160 same level of care to every individual that I did when I only had a few, but now I have 137 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,840 like a million. 138 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,280 And it is a challenge. 139 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,040 But I also feel like that's you know, that's what we committed to. 140 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:58,480 And that's where I know I have to sorry, I'm going into like 12 different I'm going to 141 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,680 stop myself at the end of the sentence. 142 00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:05,080 But that's like where I know that I need to limit my number is when I get to a point and 143 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:06,080 I'm there. 144 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:10,640 We're like, I can't give this level of care to any more animals. 145 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,840 But you know, so hard, so hard to say no, when there are so many. 146 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:20,000 But again, we're trying to change the system, you know, in addition to rescuing the individuals. 147 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,360 What about you, Jimena? 148 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:30,600 In our case, as a former dairy farm, and that was transformed into a vegan cow sanctuary. 149 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:42,920 We are a micro sanctuary because we just have to deal with the being in line with our financial 150 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:44,560 capacity. 151 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:50,100 We are self-founded micro sanctuary. 152 00:11:50,100 --> 00:12:01,760 So we have to be responsible with to deal with the resources that we have to to keep 153 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:08,000 the animals that we are committed with the well-being of the animals. 154 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:21,840 We have no land, but since we went to bankruptcy when we quit the dairy business and all the 155 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:32,120 animals weren't ours because I think I have to explain that my husband was third generation 156 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:33,880 of cattle farmers. 157 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,200 And that's why we own a dairy farm. 158 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:37,200 We are artists. 159 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,080 We didn't work at the farm. 160 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:46,840 We were living in Canada before we started the sanctuary, but we came back for some reasons 161 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,840 related to the farm. 162 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:53,720 And at the end, we quit the business. 163 00:12:53,720 --> 00:13:04,120 We couldn't keep that burden that it was too heavy in our conscience. 164 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:14,400 And we were vegan, but we had a dairy farm, so we couldn't rescue all the animals. 165 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:20,840 The National Agricultural Institute is our neighbor at the farm. 166 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:25,680 That institution has the IONOS all the time. 167 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:39,040 So we had to be very meticulous and committed with the law. 168 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:52,560 So we had to do some things that I can tell now, but the result is that we couldn't transform 169 00:13:52,560 --> 00:14:01,520 ourselves into a sanctuary, but into a micro sanctuary. 170 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:12,360 In that way, our vision is to grow someday, but right now we are trying to get back into 171 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:20,120 our feet because these five years have been like we put our world upside down. 172 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:29,440 We are starting again, trying to get bigger. 173 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:37,360 But for now, that's the reason why we are a micro sanctuary and not a sanctuary. 174 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:43,160 That's an interesting point, the neighborhood of your micro sanctuary. 175 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:53,560 I think that all of you are in the countryside surrounded by actual farms exploiting animals. 176 00:14:53,560 --> 00:15:02,960 What is it like to have a micro sanctuary in the middle of this world of animal exploitation? 177 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:04,960 Maybe let's start with you, Tracy. 178 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:05,960 Yeah. 179 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:11,280 I mean, so I live in Alabama. 180 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:19,240 Alabama is one of, and primarily we focus on chickens rescued from the meat industry. 181 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:31,960 Alabama is one of the largest chicken producers in the US and I assume in the world. 182 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:39,600 That's not so much my neighborhood, but the region, the culture in my immediate neighborhood, 183 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:50,320 which is very much the country, there are mostly a lot of cows. 184 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:57,760 Honestly, I love the sanctuary so much. 185 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:05,600 I have a big fence and a few acres and I just love what's happening here. 186 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:12,880 It feels like all living beings here are respected and loved. 187 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:19,600 But I honestly have a little bit of a fear of what's outside my fence. 188 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:28,840 I worry when I have to have somebody come fix the plumbing or something. 189 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:37,640 I've had people come to do work like that and sometimes they've made jokes about the 190 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:42,480 chickens looking tasty. 191 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:51,160 Or other times, I just have this fear that if people know what we're doing here, that 192 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:57,120 it puts the animals at risk. 193 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:06,240 It's a strange experience to be doing what we're doing here and feel so surrounded by 194 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:14,600 such a different culture and world where people see these beings who I love with my whole 195 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:15,600 life. 196 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:20,320 I would do anything for them, but to know that just on the other side of that gate, 197 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,920 it's like everybody who passes by sees them as food. 198 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:25,920 Jessica? 199 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,360 Yeah, so I kind of feel the same way. 200 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:39,400 I'm in a county that's very agricultural, so there's a multi-million dollar dairy down 201 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,160 the road from me. 202 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:49,160 I just learned a couple weeks ago that 20 miles away is a goat farm that has thousands 203 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:50,880 of goats. 204 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,720 And I actually saw them from the highway for the first time a few weeks ago and that's 205 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,680 how I knew that they were there. 206 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:07,520 And my hay delivery guy knows them and says, oh, they ship semi loads of goats to New York 207 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:13,240 every so often and that's horrifying to me. 208 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,080 So it's hard. 209 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:23,920 We want to get the word out to change hearts and change minds, but at the same time, I 210 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,240 don't have a big sign on our property. 211 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:33,480 We have a small sign on the gate and that's it because I want people to be able to find 212 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:40,840 me that need to find me, but I don't want every farmer driving down the road to notice 213 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,240 us either. 214 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:51,600 Because like you, Tracy, I feel like that's a threat a little bit and I worry about it. 215 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:59,680 So yeah, it's hard to be in the middle of it and it's hard to talk to people sometimes 216 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:05,040 because that disassociation is there. 217 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:10,400 Even people who think I'm doing a great thing, but they don't make the connection to what 218 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:16,100 they're eating or who they're eating. 219 00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:18,760 So yeah, it's different. 220 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,320 It's not easy sometimes. 221 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:23,320 Thank you, Jessica. 222 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:33,880 Ximena, you talked about how you have the National Agriculture Association or something 223 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:35,880 just in your neighborhood. 224 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:37,760 Sounds very hostile. 225 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:43,040 And I also wonder, what is it like to have an animal sanctuary in Colombia? 226 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,160 Is veganism... 227 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:46,720 It's very hard. 228 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:54,280 I can relate with Jessica and Tracy about the fear because in Colombia cattle farming 229 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,000 is very important. 230 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:08,880 It's not just an industry, a powerful industry, but it was related with foreign military army 231 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,560 years ago. 232 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,040 They are very powerful. 233 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:23,120 So when you try to make a cultural transformation, people doesn't take it like, ah, that's cool. 234 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:25,680 No, it's like you want to change me. 235 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:26,680 You're crazy. 236 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:27,680 You're rebellious. 237 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:28,680 People doesn't like it. 238 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:39,480 At the beginning of the sanctuary, it was at the same time of the pandemic. 239 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:46,080 Our sanctuary was vandalized a few times. 240 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:54,240 We were always with the fear that because if they broke some pipes or steal some machinery 241 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,120 or whatever, it doesn't matter. 242 00:20:56,120 --> 00:21:05,160 But we were always afraid that they make harm to the or hurt the girls, the cows. 243 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:10,120 So it was difficult to deal with. 244 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:16,480 That's why I was saying before that we are just like put again ourselves on our feet 245 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:26,640 because it was not just bankruptcy, but all the attacks that we had at the beginning. 246 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:32,520 Even from my husband's family, they are all cattle farmers. 247 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,760 And right now in Colombia, there is a debate. 248 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:42,160 In fact, tomorrow is the final debate of the Congress about bullfighting. 249 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:55,480 And our neighbor at the farm is one of the main bullfighting lawyers. 250 00:21:55,480 --> 00:22:05,760 He owns, in fact, the main bullfighting ring in Bogota has his last name, Santa Maria. 251 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,840 So it has been difficult. 252 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,760 It has been a difficult path. 253 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:17,280 But I think we were able to do it. 254 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,440 And right now we are feeling more comfortable. 255 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,320 And that's why we are planning to move to the farm with the cattle. 256 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:30,160 So we are not depending on someone or feeling that fear. 257 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:38,040 But if we are there, I think we can feel more comfortable and safe being all the time with 258 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,560 the animals. 259 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:53,120 So but it's always the there are nice people, but there are always the people with the prejudice 260 00:22:53,120 --> 00:23:00,240 that you're crazy and you're trying to you're a hippie. 261 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:06,680 Like they say in Colombia, you're a weed smoker, like marihuanero. 262 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:18,560 So like crazy once the sanctuary was broadcasted at the TV national news. 263 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:24,280 Some people were like insulting us or saying like ugly things. 264 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:35,080 So but I think that is part of the choice that we made trying to promote a cultural 265 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:42,460 transformation that respect and having into account animal lives. 266 00:23:42,460 --> 00:23:50,520 So I think this is the price and we were we were willing to assume that and we are in 267 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:55,680 that in that way. 268 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:05,720 So obviously, the animal rights scene in Colombia is not that, you know, developed. 269 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,120 But even in the US, it's sorry that I interrupted. 270 00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:21,240 But it's ironically, we had some politicians or animal, I don't know how to say it in English, 271 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:27,080 animalist or animal rights activist, animal rights activist. 272 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,080 Exactly. 273 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:34,040 We are moving in some directions. 274 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:40,600 We are it's difficult, for example, to to ban livestock export. 275 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:41,600 So it's difficult. 276 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,840 But we have politicians that are trying to to do it. 277 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:51,560 And right now, tomorrow is the final debate for ban to ban bullfighting. 278 00:24:51,560 --> 00:25:00,160 And last last week, we had the Congress and the president signed a law to sterilization 279 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,560 campaign for cats and dogs all over the country. 280 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,000 So it's it's ironic. 281 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:13,800 It's ironic because there is a strong animal for animal rights movement. 282 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:19,160 But at the same time, it's a cattle country. 283 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:25,800 And right now we have the issue about the hippopotamus. 284 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,360 We have some hippos in Colombia and some some people want to kill them. 285 00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:34,520 But animal rights activists don't allow them to do that. 286 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,600 So I animals have some strong voices here. 287 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,600 But this difficult is like 50 50. 288 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,000 Yeah, my my mistake. 289 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:53,200 But the point I wanted to reach is, you know, there is a level of difficulty of challenge 290 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:59,520 to opening a micro sanctuary, even in a country like the US, where it's not a cattle country. 291 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,520 You know, you have more diversity in the economy, I guess. 292 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:13,200 But the question I want to get by and feel free to address any points I make or I made 293 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:22,480 is, you know, is a is the micro sanctuary movement an invitation for people to open 294 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,600 their own micro sanctuary? 295 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:31,320 And if it is the case, you know, what would you have to say to those people? 296 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,480 And who wants to take the mic first? 297 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:45,480 I say that I will advise that a do it a week, had a plan and do it then because we didn't 298 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,520 did it that way. 299 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,840 We decide one day and 10 days later, we weren't milking. 300 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,000 And it was a farm that was milking for 50 years and in 10 days, we did it. 301 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,320 So that's because we had that in to do. 302 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,720 We had a mind to do it a lot of years. 303 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:03,720 We didn't do it. 304 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:08,320 And one day my husband said is today or is never. 305 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:09,320 We did it. 306 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,960 And it was because we have partners, his family. 307 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:13,700 So it was difficult. 308 00:27:13,700 --> 00:27:24,760 So I will advise people to do it, but have a plan, have a financial plan and be responsible. 309 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,440 We are the first lady farm transformed into a sanctuary in Colombia. 310 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:39,160 There is other a cattle farmer who became in to a sanctuary in Antioquia. 311 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:46,200 This other part of Colombia, but there are few sanctuaries. 312 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:52,880 There is one big center in Colombia, but it's difficult because everybody do it in the way 313 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,360 they they can. 314 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:56,760 They deal with the situation the way they can. 315 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:05,360 So I don't we are not open to the public because I don't want to be a zoo or a circus or wherever. 316 00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:06,960 But some people do it. 317 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:15,760 I want to move to the farm and start a way to make the sanctuary sustainable. 318 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:21,020 We are doing this five years after starting. 319 00:28:21,020 --> 00:28:24,940 So I will advise to do it with a plan. 320 00:28:24,940 --> 00:28:26,160 How do you want to do it? 321 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,160 You want to be self-funded? 322 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:33,760 You want to be funded by some people or how do you want to do it in Colombia? 323 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:41,080 It's difficult, especially with farm animals, because everybody loves cats and dogs, but 324 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:49,040 people eat pigs, it's cows, it's sheep. 325 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:54,280 So with cows is difficult. 326 00:28:54,280 --> 00:29:05,800 And especially if you're not rescuing all the time, because people like to see the show, 327 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:12,240 like the animal in a very bad situation and then he was improving. 328 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:20,200 For us is difficult because our cows are living a happy life. 329 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:25,920 They have been always happy, loved, respected. 330 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:33,840 So it's like for people it's like you don't need help. 331 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:45,800 So but if you see an animal that needs instant help, that is dying, that it needs urgent 332 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,760 medical attention, so it's different. 333 00:29:49,760 --> 00:30:04,800 So I would like to promote in the future a program so people as farmers can change, can 334 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:13,880 transform because I think that like us, new generations that have an awakening, a conscious 335 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:20,880 awakening and don't have to make a living exploding animals and make a living from the 336 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:28,880 suffering and death of other animals can make a living because that is the point. 337 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:36,000 Not everybody is willing like us to, okay, let's do it and see what happens. 338 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:41,520 We went broke in bankruptcy and our career as artists was affected. 339 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:50,440 So it's important to have a financial plan, to have support and it will be nice that in 340 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:55,760 the US there is the Ranch Advocacy Program and there is a program to microcentraries 341 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,160 to make that transformation. 342 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:06,640 But here we are pioneers and we don't have that support. 343 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:15,440 We don't know anything about agriculture so it's not like we could cattle and we are 344 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:27,120 going to lease most of our land to survive because we didn't know how to survive in agriculture. 345 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:34,680 So that is so important to have a plan, to be responsible and to because it's a commitment 346 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:41,960 for life with the animals, it's not like we rescue, it's a sanctuary, it's a place where 347 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:51,920 animals live for the rest of their lives and you have to take care of them for everything. 348 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:59,040 People sometimes don't know that a cow or other animals have different, when people 349 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:04,120 say like, oh cows are like puppies, I'm saying no, they are not like puppies, they deserve 350 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:13,640 the same respect, they have the same right to live, but they are 500, 600 kilos so they 351 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,680 have different needs. 352 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:22,440 They need land, they need pastures, they need water, they need other things. 353 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:29,520 So you have to be responsible for how many animals you are able to have. 354 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:30,520 Thank you. 355 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:31,520 Jessica? 356 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:39,160 Yeah, I think we could encourage more people to be micro sanctuary. 357 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:46,920 It's such a great way to feel like you are doing something. 358 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,800 I know so many people feel a little helpless about it. 359 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,680 The problem is so big, right? 360 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,440 It's astronomical and it's overwhelming. 361 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:09,040 But I know for me, when I started the sanctuary here, that was, I had to, I had to do something. 362 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:16,240 So I think that gives people a way to do it. 363 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:26,360 And like Jimena said, you got to have a plan, always a good idea. 364 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,000 And be financially responsible. 365 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,800 We are at our limit for animals now. 366 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:43,520 I always want to, even though we do take donations and we are a nonprofit, I always want to know 367 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:48,100 that if that went away, I could still take care of everybody. 368 00:33:48,100 --> 00:33:56,040 So I still work a full time job besides taking care of everybody and know that it would get 369 00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:05,480 tight for sure, but I could still take care of everybody if that failed for whatever reason. 370 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:12,840 That part of doing a nonprofit is scary. 371 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,720 Having to rely on other people for that and that's not guaranteed. 372 00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:27,760 So yeah, I just, I think, like she said, you have to have a plan, but it's, you know, you 373 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:34,600 can make such a huge difference for that one animal or a couple animals that you take in. 374 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:50,480 And it's so satisfying and yeah, just, it makes you feel good, right? 375 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,600 It makes you feel like you're making a difference and you're helping. 376 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:59,080 And so I think that's something that more people could do and feel like they're making 377 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:00,080 a difference. 378 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,400 Yeah, we need more of that. 379 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:13,520 I mean, every time I see social media conversations, you know, of vegans, there's always someone 380 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:20,840 expressing their feeling of depression and existential crisis of having to confront the 381 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,800 fact that animal exploitation exists. 382 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,880 So Tracy, what is your answer? 383 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:30,680 Well, yeah, so I agree. 384 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:36,600 I think, especially, you know, when you really talk about a microsanctuary as a micro, like 385 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:42,160 a real microsanctuary, I think, you know, then it is like, I think, again, part of the 386 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:47,240 maybe like original sort of definition is like something that you can do with your own 387 00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:50,920 resources and whatever those resources are. 388 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:56,720 I mean, I think that the hard part is limiting yourself, which like, again, when I first 389 00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:02,920 took in my, I had dogs and cats, you know, I had already a lot of dogs and cats, of course, 390 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:03,920 all rescues. 391 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,480 And then I took in my first group of chickens. 392 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,080 And for one, I was just like very misled. 393 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:12,240 Like, if you look online, and you'll see like the back there, chicken forms, they will lie 394 00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:15,640 to you and tell you that having chickens is cheap and easy. 395 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:21,560 And that is just absolutely the opposite of the truth. 396 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,640 So I didn't really quite know what I was getting myself into. 397 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:34,720 I also had this delusion that people would just like want to throw money to help me take 398 00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:36,640 care of these animals. 399 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,200 And that's not true. 400 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:43,440 Like, so to echo what everyone else is saying is, and again, you know, this is kind of the 401 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:48,680 idea of a microsanctuary is that in theory, you do it with your own resources. 402 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:53,480 But I think a lot of people start sanctuaries and they just assume that they're going to 403 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,360 be able to raise enough money. 404 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,160 They don't have a backup plan. 405 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:01,880 And then that can go very bad very quickly. 406 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:07,360 So I think, you know, there are a lot of like caveats about doing it. 407 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:13,320 But I think that if you are, if you have a plan and you are and you really limit yourself, 408 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:19,320 like only take in animals who you know how to care for and like educate yourself before 409 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,960 taking them in on how to care for them. 410 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,320 And there are some really good like there's an open sanctuary project has some like amazing 411 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:27,320 care guidelines. 412 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:33,360 And I, you know, so because I had no idea how to take care of chickens, I just am so 413 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:38,680 grateful that I knew sanctuary people also because most of my chickens are rescued from 414 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:43,520 the meat industry, they're cornish crosses and they require very different care from 415 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:49,440 like a more, you know, like natural breed. 416 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,920 They're so genetically manipulated that if you don't give them very special care, like 417 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,400 they won't survive for more than a year or so. 418 00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,600 And my oldest are now will be six and a couple of months. 419 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:07,040 And that is like 100% because I got connected to like the right people early on to find 420 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,880 out, you know, to learn what I needed to do to take care of them. 421 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,040 But it was a it was it was much more than I knew I was getting myself into. 422 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:22,520 But I think like another real benefit besides like the animals that that we can, you know, 423 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:27,120 the individuals who we can help and it's that thing like every individual life matters. 424 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,680 And so even if you can only take in like one or two, you're saving that life. 425 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,320 But also because of social media and like we have all these other opportunities to just 426 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,960 advocate for their whole species. 427 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:47,200 But also, like, I feel like I am such a better advocate for chickens in particular, because 428 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:54,320 that's who I you know, that's mostly what we you know, who we focus on here is chickens. 429 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,600 I also before I had the sanctuary, I would volunteer at other sanctuaries. 430 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,880 I was always really interested in the cows and the pigs and the goats and the sheep. 431 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,040 And I really was not interested in the avian species. 432 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:11,040 And now that I know them, like I know that there are these incredible little people with 433 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:18,080 so much personality and they are so worthy of our, you know, of our respect and our love 434 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,800 and our care and our compassion. 435 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:29,400 And I, you know, it's like knowing them as a sanctuary, you develop these like long term 436 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,960 deep relationships where you can get to know them as individuals so well. 437 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,880 And then to be able to, it's a thing of like, you know, often in our advocacy, we'll talk 438 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:39,760 about like being a voice for the voiceless. 439 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:45,080 But like when we live with the animals, we know that they have voices and we learn to 440 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:46,200 understand what they're saying. 441 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:52,680 And then I think that just makes us such better advocates for them. 442 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:59,120 And you don't need to rescue 100 animals, you know, to develop that. 443 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:05,000 So I think for a lot of reasons, I do think that there's like great value in starting 444 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:09,400 a micro sanctuary, but with all the caveats that like, you know, everybody echoed about 445 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:15,440 having a plan, staying within your resources as hard as that can be. 446 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,600 Here's a weird question. 447 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:24,720 And, you know, I'll just ask it, you know, who are those animals for us? 448 00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:27,480 You know, are they our friends? 449 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,520 Are they, you know, family? 450 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:36,600 I feel like there are words lacking in every language to describe, you know, maybe the 451 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:45,040 kind of relationships we build when we decide to look at animals as people because they 452 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,440 are of another species. 453 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:59,040 And for as long as humans have lived, we treated them as food or we hunted them or something 454 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:00,040 like that. 455 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:09,240 And then, you know, the relationship or the interaction, because it's not a relationship, 456 00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:11,840 is clearly defined. 457 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:19,760 But when we have a sanctuary, when we are vegan, when we are animal rights activists 458 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:28,600 and we care for them, then what do those animals become for us? 459 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,120 And so let's start with you, Tracy. 460 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,280 Is it a good question to ask? 461 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:34,280 Am I just rambling here? 462 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:35,280 Yeah, I know. 463 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:36,280 I think it's a great question. 464 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:42,480 And it's funny because I think that, like, I actually, I often do struggle a little bit 465 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:52,480 myself with the language, like, because I think the animals 100% feel like my family. 466 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:57,760 So I do think, I think, you know, I mean, it is so relational. 467 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:02,120 Like, I think there are a lot of, you know, a lot of people who couldn't call the animals 468 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,200 their family, right? 469 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:13,360 But especially, I don't know, the way that, yeah, I mean, the feeling of the way I feel 470 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:14,360 about them. 471 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:22,400 I mean, in fact, it's like that thing of, it's kind of like how you would feel about 472 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:23,400 an ideal family. 473 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,160 Like, there are a lot of us who have like very complicated relationships with our actual 474 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:27,160 human families. 475 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,760 And with the animals, there's not that complication. 476 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:34,000 It's much more like uncomplicated, unconditional love. 477 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:41,200 And it's like maybe the, it is sort of the ideal form of family, but with these non-human, 478 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:46,120 you know, with another species, I also feel very much that they're my friends. 479 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:54,000 But a friend often doesn't feel like it conveys the intimacy and like the deep love. 480 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,040 Because it is such a deep love. 481 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,040 They're my loves. 482 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:07,560 And some of them, though, you know, it's that thing too, they're all such individuals, right? 483 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:13,560 Like, there's some, some are, actually, some are maybe a little bit more like complicated 484 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:14,560 family relationships. 485 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:23,080 Like I have one chicken, Jane, who just is, she's just, I don't know, bossy and sassy. 486 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,160 And she's kind of a little bit mean, actually. 487 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:32,000 Like, she does try to bite me all the time, like, and I'm just always like, you know, 488 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,080 it's like, oh, you dirty human, like, don't, you can't make it up to me. 489 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:37,080 Don't smile at me. 490 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:38,080 I know your people. 491 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,080 And like, okay, that's fine. 492 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:45,640 So with her, it's maybe like a little bit more of a complicated family, but still, I 493 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:46,640 think still she feels like family. 494 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,640 I mean, I guess like the one other thing I'll just say about like language and what we call 495 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,160 them is that I do often call them my kids. 496 00:43:53,160 --> 00:44:02,120 And I understand though how like that can be a little bit demeaning. 497 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:08,320 Like there, a lot of them are full grown adults, but I often think of it like, but it's like, 498 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:12,000 I'm 50 years old and I'm still my mother's kid. 499 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,080 And like, it's again, it's like our relationship. 500 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:23,280 Like I see them as, you know, very, you know, autonomous beings who are fully mature. 501 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,240 And I try to respect that. 502 00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:30,000 But also just because of the relationship that we have, I feel like they are my kids. 503 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:35,840 And just in the way that I as a 50 year old woman am my mother's kid. 504 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:41,640 And so I feel like it's not disrespectful or demeaning, even though that language can 505 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:49,040 kind of undermine, you know, the fullness of their personhood. 506 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:50,040 Thank you, Tracy. 507 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:55,680 Jimena, what about you when you see the cows or your cats? 508 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,760 What do you think or feel? 509 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,200 How I think they feel? 510 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:02,200 Yes. 511 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,240 How do you see them? 512 00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:05,240 It's family. 513 00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:06,240 They are my family. 514 00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:14,040 They are like, I don't know, like daughters. 515 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:15,040 We are a matriarchy. 516 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,360 We are all girls, almost all. 517 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:25,920 There are only two guys, my husband and Leo, but we are all, we are a lot of ladies. 518 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,720 So a family. 519 00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:30,120 What about you, Jessica? 520 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:34,400 You talked about, you know, companion animals. 521 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,040 What does this word mean? 522 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,920 So, yeah, I mean, they're family. 523 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:47,880 But I guess, like Tracy said, you know, family can be, Nigel's decided to start crowing. 524 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:58,400 So anyway, I don't know if I would call them a friend or family. 525 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:06,160 It's just there's such an individual relationship with each of them. 526 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:16,600 And everybody's personality is so different and knowing all those personalities. 527 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:22,560 And like Tracy, I have a couple of maybe bossy or opinionated. 528 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:27,800 Nigel is very loud. 529 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,080 Don't worry, I will edit it out. 530 00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:36,060 So but they are family. 531 00:46:36,060 --> 00:46:38,200 And sometimes they feel like more than family. 532 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:50,760 You know, Jack was my whole world, which, you know, we lost him two weeks ago. 533 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,960 My whole life revolved around him. 534 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:59,420 And we had, you know, we bickered and we had days where maybe we were annoyed with each 535 00:46:59,420 --> 00:47:00,800 other. 536 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:05,680 But we always, you know, spent all of our time together and loved each other. 537 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:13,160 And so, yeah, they're just there's relationships, whether it's family or friend, or a combination 538 00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,440 of all of that. 539 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:20,080 Yeah, that's that's how I would say it. 540 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:27,680 And I want to also ask, you know, we talked about threats and, you know, challenges to 541 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,920 micro sanctuaries. 542 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:37,440 But overall, when you look at the future, what is, you know, the future of the micro 543 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:38,880 sanctuary movement? 544 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,840 Do you see that increasing? 545 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:47,900 Do you see more people adopting this model and opening a micro sanctuary? 546 00:47:47,900 --> 00:47:53,680 If yes, then that makes you, you know, the leaders of that movement. 547 00:47:53,680 --> 00:48:02,000 You know, historically, you're the first generation basically to open such sanctuaries. 548 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:10,160 And also, you know, on more of a macro level, how do you see the future of animal rights 549 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:11,320 and veganism? 550 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,000 Are we progressing? 551 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:19,360 Are we, you know, moving forward toward a shining future? 552 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:24,720 Or maybe you're less optimistic, Jessica? 553 00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:31,480 Well, it probably depends on what day you ask me as to how optimistic I am. 554 00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:40,760 So what we see in sanctuaries in this country, the larger sanctuaries is there's been a lot 555 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,280 of them that have failed in the last few years. 556 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:51,320 We've seen some pretty big disasters with animals getting neglected or, you know, having 557 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:55,640 to close down and re-home and that puts more strain on everybody else. 558 00:48:55,640 --> 00:49:02,840 So I feel like the micro sanctuary idea is actually a better way to do it. 559 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:12,200 Yes, the bigger ones, you can reach so many people as far as advocacy. 560 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:18,880 But like Tracy said, with social media, you know, we can reach a lot of people even being 561 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,200 small, you know. 562 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:30,120 There are lots of people who follow us on Instagram all over the world who know, you 563 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:34,680 know, are animals by name and by sight. 564 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,920 And that, you know, that opens hearts, changes minds. 565 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:40,360 I am optimistic. 566 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:46,920 I think it's very slow progress, but I think it's getting there. 567 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:56,960 You know, I can have conversations with people now in my, I've been vegan for four years 568 00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:02,680 and it's easier to have those conversations. 569 00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,280 I think people are more willing to at least listen. 570 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:13,340 Not everybody, but I've been able to talk to people a little bit more this last year. 571 00:50:13,340 --> 00:50:22,800 And I think, you know, with it becoming more open knowledge that it can make such a difference 572 00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:27,240 for the planet and climate and all of that, I think more people are going to be willing 573 00:50:27,240 --> 00:50:31,840 to at least try it and open their minds a little bit to it. 574 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:32,840 So I'm hopeful. 575 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,480 I know it's going to be very slow. 576 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,800 The progress is not fast. 577 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:44,760 I mean, it probably won't be in my lifetime because like Tracy, I'm almost 50. 578 00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:50,960 So but I'm optimistic. 579 00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:51,960 Thank you, Jessica. 580 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:53,640 Thank you, Mina. 581 00:50:53,640 --> 00:51:06,880 I think that most important than the micro sanctuary scene is our main mission is to 582 00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:11,880 promote cultural transformation. 583 00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:19,240 I think that more important that there are, it's important for the few animals we can 584 00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:30,600 save, but if there are a lot of micro sanctuaries, we can save all the animals that the big industry 585 00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:32,580 is killing every day. 586 00:51:32,580 --> 00:51:39,560 So I think that most important than that is our cultural transformation and keep advocating 587 00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:45,720 for the animals and changing minds and changing their consumption habits. 588 00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:53,280 Because we all are optimistic because we are doing this, but some days are difficult when 589 00:51:53,280 --> 00:52:04,400 you see the images and you see someone very close to me works in a food company in Arizona. 590 00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:09,620 She was telling me that in the US, the meat consumption is growing. 591 00:52:09,620 --> 00:52:21,680 So it was like this hard thing for me because I'm putting my life in this and saying that 592 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:26,720 that monster is like what I'm doing here. 593 00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:31,080 But I think that it's growing at the same time. 594 00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:38,040 They advocate the people that are going vegan and at the same time, the industry is growing 595 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:44,320 because in the US, the consumption is growing, in China is growing, but in some countries 596 00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,600 is less. 597 00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:59,480 UK is consuming more plant-based food, the same in Germany, in some countries that they 598 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:01,280 have limited resources. 599 00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:06,120 I think that maybe because Canada or here in this continent, North and South America, 600 00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:16,960 we are so abundant in resources, we don't realize what are we doing to… 601 00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:22,680 I'm vegan for the animals, but we are killing our planet with our animal agriculture. 602 00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:31,600 So we don't realize that in some places like UK, like in Europe, the resources are very 603 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:36,960 limited and they are going, changing their minds. 604 00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:45,640 So I think that in some universities, the food offer is going plant-based. 605 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,920 So I think we… 606 00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:58,320 I would like to say it faster, it's difficult, but I think that if people don't make a change, 607 00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:04,120 the planet will make it for us. 608 00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:10,360 So I hope that people change their minds before it's too late, but at the same time, it's 609 00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:16,160 so painful to see all the animals suffering in that way. 610 00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:21,160 So it will be nice to see more micro-centuaries, but I think that the most important thing 611 00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:29,160 that we can do is spread the message of respecting animal lives, that we don't need to tweet 612 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:38,680 or to wear or test things in animals, that we can have a happy and full life without 613 00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:43,520 exploiting animals or make them suffer. 614 00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:44,520 Thank you, Ximena. 615 00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,280 Tracy, how is the future for you? 616 00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:48,280 Bleak, shining? 617 00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:58,920 Well, I think like Jessica said, it kind of depends maybe on the day. 618 00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:05,280 And like Ximena was just talking about, I see that the vegan movement is growing, but 619 00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:15,000 simultaneously the number of animals being killed for food is also growing. 620 00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:19,760 And that's hard. 621 00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:24,840 It's obviously a problem that's like so overwhelming. 622 00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:30,280 And I really do think that there are some really hopeful things happening. 623 00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:35,520 I think the whole alt meat, this kitty, by the way, is so cute and that little tongue 624 00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:44,040 sticking out, it's like, I don't know, impossibly cute. 625 00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:46,600 So there are these things happening like alt meats. 626 00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:48,280 And I think that's really exciting. 627 00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:55,280 And I think that's part of making it easier for people to switch their diets. 628 00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,920 But I don't think that it's enough. 629 00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:10,840 I think technological fixes will be helpful to transition the world to a plant-based diet. 630 00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:16,040 And it's also, right, it's like we focus so much on the farm animals in part because the 631 00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:21,920 numbers are so large, and that is where the bulk of the suffering is. 632 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:28,600 But I do think that we need like, Ximena is talking about, we need cultural change. 633 00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:32,760 We need a total paradigm shift. 634 00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:37,800 And I do think that sanctuaries have a role to play in that because I do think that as 635 00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:47,800 much as I can be very discouraged about human nature, and we've been, as a movement, we've 636 00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:55,160 been trying to show people for decades who these animals are and the horrors that they're 637 00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:56,160 going through. 638 00:56:56,160 --> 00:57:00,480 And it's like, you think, is there anybody who still doesn't know? 639 00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:04,960 And if people know and they're not changing them, they just don't care. 640 00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,120 And that's all very hard. 641 00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:13,720 And I think that the whole alt-meat movement, I think in a large part, it's like an attempt 642 00:57:13,720 --> 00:57:20,840 to just bypass our morality. 643 00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:27,520 We're not ethical enough to change, but maybe if we give people this meat alternative that's 644 00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,920 cheap and tastes good, then maybe people will do it. 645 00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:37,520 But it's kind of like expecting people to change just for moral reasons is like, that's 646 00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:39,960 not working for us. 647 00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:46,000 That said, I do think it's an essential part of saving the animals, of saving the world. 648 00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:52,260 I do think we need to just make this major shift. 649 00:57:52,260 --> 00:57:56,880 And I think sanctuaries have this unique role to play in that by sharing stories and letting 650 00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:02,400 people know who these animals are and why it matters. 651 00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:07,440 Why it matters that there are trillions of them suffering. 652 00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:11,800 But I think it's that thing too, is you hear the numbers and it is so overwhelming. 653 00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:12,800 And what's that quote? 654 00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:15,520 I'm terrible with quotes, but something like once... 655 00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:22,440 I think it was like a Stalin quote, but it was like one million starving people is a 656 00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:23,440 statistic. 657 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,800 One starving child will move people. 658 00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:26,800 Again, I'm really sorry. 659 00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:27,800 A tragedy, something like that. 660 00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:28,800 Oh, that's good. 661 00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:33,760 It's like this idea that it's like too many numbers and it's just people's eyes roll on 662 00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:35,920 the back of their heads and they don't care. 663 00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:42,320 But you present like one starving child or one hurting animal and people care. 664 00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:48,760 And I think sanctuaries have this opportunity to tell those personal stories that will hopefully 665 00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:50,440 open people's hearts. 666 00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:57,160 And I do fundamentally, honestly believe that there is goodness in all... 667 00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:06,520 That we are born good, that there's goodness in us and that it's mostly conditioning and 668 00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,560 cultural conditioning and what's been handed down by our families. 669 00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:16,800 But that has brought us to where we are and I think it can change. 670 00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:23,000 It's just so kind of like the train is moving so fast and how do you stop it and redirect 671 00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:26,640 course and it's a lot. 672 00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:32,440 But I think we have to keep trying. 673 00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:39,080 I mean, I 100% am nowhere near like, oh, there's no point in trying. 674 00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:44,960 I have to believe that we can change and that the future is vegan. 675 00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:51,960 And I'm also as old as I am, I'm not willing to say, I can't accept that it won't happen 676 00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:52,960 in my lifetime. 677 00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,960 I feel like it has to happen in my lifetime. 678 00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,960 I have to believe that it can. 679 00:59:58,960 --> 00:59:59,960 Amazing. 680 00:59:59,960 --> 01:00:07,360 So I think those would be great answers to end this recording. 681 01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:12,960 But first, before I stop the recording, how can we support you? 682 01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:16,760 How can listeners support you? 683 01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:18,240 Let's start with you, Jessica. 684 01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:19,240 Yeah. 685 01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:28,920 So we're on Instagram and Facebook so we can always donate through our pages. 686 01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:38,800 If you can't donate, then just sharing our posts and commenting and helping the silly 687 01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:44,680 algorithm that we all fight every day on there is helpful. 688 01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:47,240 We also do Patreon. 689 01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:52,200 So that's a platform where they can donate monthly. 690 01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:56,240 They can sponsor an animal. 691 01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:58,560 We do that through the Patreon. 692 01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:03,160 We're actually in the middle of designing our website finally. 693 01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:09,000 So there'll be that as a platform as well in the future, but primarily it's through 694 01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:10,400 social media right now. 695 01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:17,520 So they can find all the ways to donate by going to our social media pages. 696 01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:18,520 Thank you, Jessica. 697 01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:19,520 Ximena. 698 01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:29,800 The same as Jessica, following, liking and sharing as our mission is to spread the message 699 01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:35,800 for us that is very important. 700 01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:37,720 Financially how to support us? 701 01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:43,400 We have a PayPal account and we are artists. 702 01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:45,520 We depend on the sales of our art. 703 01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:56,200 So that's a more important thing for us to sell our art so we can keep making a living 704 01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,680 for those girls that eat a lot. 705 01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:06,440 And that's, I think that right now it's the way we, as we told you before, I was, we were 706 01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:15,440 planning to move to the farm and make some workshops about vegan food and I love cooking. 707 01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:17,120 I think I'm good doing it. 708 01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:29,600 So I want to share that knowledge that I have in learning by myself when becoming vegan 709 01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:36,840 so at that point I think that it will be nice that people can come here. 710 01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:44,600 We want to make a room to receive, to get some visitors. 711 01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:51,000 So but right now it's PayPal following and spreading the message. 712 01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:52,000 Tracy. 713 01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:53,000 Yeah, thank you. 714 01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:54,000 Okay. 715 01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,000 So yeah, so we're Sweet Peeps Micro Sanctuary. 716 01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,840 We have a website which is www.sweetpeeps.org. 717 01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:06,280 Facebook, Instagram, you can find us at Sweet Peeps Micro Sanctuary. 718 01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:12,840 Same as everybody said, you can donate, you can sponsor animals for the website, sharing, 719 01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:13,840 liking. 720 01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:21,760 I have a children's book coming out in a couple of weeks about, based on the chickens here. 721 01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:28,720 The name of the book is Chickens Are Animals Too, Fanny Goes to Washington. 722 01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:34,040 So if you follow the page, I'll be putting out information about the book, but you should 723 01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:39,240 be able to find it anywhere and all of the proceeds will go to the animals because all 724 01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:41,880 of my money goes to the animals. 725 01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,080 So that's a good guarantee. 726 01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:49,880 But yeah, like Humana said, it's like more than anything, just wanting to get the message 727 01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:57,760 out, wanting people to get to know these animals and realize that they are sentient beings 728 01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,880 who we should love and respect and not eat. 729 01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:06,840 Thank you so much for asking and for having this conversation and for everything that 730 01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:09,520 you do and for highlighting us. 731 01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:12,000 I appreciate it so much. 732 01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:13,480 Of course. 733 01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:20,600 And thank you everyone for being an inspiration and for doing the hard work you're doing. 734 01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:29,760 Truly it was very educative and just awesome to hear you talk about your experiences. 735 01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:37,280 And you have such insightful reflections on the animal protection movement and what it 736 01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,280 means to be at the forefront of that. 737 01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,760 So thank you so much for having accepted my invitation. 738 01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:44,760 Thank you. 739 01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:48,360 It was very nice to share this evening with you. 740 01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:49,360 Thanks for having me. 741 01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:50,360 Yeah. 742 01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:51,360 Thank you all of you. 743 01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:52,360 I mean, yeah. 744 01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:56,640 And Jessica and Humana, so nice to get to know what you're doing. 745 01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:00,040 And I'm so happy to meet you and just to connect with all of you. 746 01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,240 Because I also think that that's so much a part of creating a vegan world. 747 01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:07,120 None of us are going to do it alone. 748 01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,520 And it's like connecting with other people with the same mission. 749 01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:12,640 So thank you all for everything. 750 01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:13,640 Thank you all. 751 01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:20,720 You are doing a great job and also we are spreading this word with this podcast. 752 01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:27,200 There is information and education also. 753 01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:34,640 It's very useful for this movement. 754 01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:39,320 So it was very nice to see you to share with you all. 755 01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:42,960 Well, it's my pleasure, truly. 756 01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:44,840 Thank you everyone for listening. 757 01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:49,180 I kindly invite you to share this podcast with the vegans you know. 758 01:05:49,180 --> 01:05:52,240 Let's encourage more people to take action. 759 01:05:52,240 --> 01:06:05,760 Again, thank you so much for caring and I will see you next Tuesday for a new episode.