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Queen Elizabeth II reigned over the United Kingdoms and the Commonwealth for 70 years,

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making her the second longest reigning monarch in history.

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She is remembered for her sense of duty and her devotion to a life of service, which made

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her a beloved and respected figure worldwide.

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However her legacy is not all good as she is also remembered as being a passionate supporter

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of horse racing, thus contributing more than anyone else to giving a cover of prestige

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to a horrific industry.

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In footage provided by The Telegraph years ago, she is seen visiting her stables and

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seeing something quite peculiar at the sight of one of her horses.

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Quote, I often wonder what goes through her head.

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To answer the Queen's wonderment, I have with me Patrick Betwello and Nicole Arcello.

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Patrick is the founder and president and Nicole the executive director of the animal rights

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organization Horse Racing Wrongs.

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The organization's mission statement reads, Horse Racing Wrongs is a non-profit committed

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to ending the cruel and deadly horse racing industry in the United States.

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Patrick, Nicole, thank you so much for being here.

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Thank you so much for having us, Ryan.

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So let's dive right in with a question related to what the Queen was thinking and asking,

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can you take us through the life journey of a horse distanced to horse racing?

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And I'm thinking from the birth of the horse to its retirement.

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Sure.

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So the various breeds that are used in horse racing, mainly thoroughbreds, quarter horses

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and standard breds are bred for one purpose and that is to get them on the track so they

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can start earning for their humans.

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So the cruelty really starts at a very, very young age.

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So anywhere between six months and a year of age, these horses are forever separated

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from their mothers and herds and then they are broken, which is an industry term meaning

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to be made pliant and submissive.

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And at that point, they are thrust into the horse racing industry.

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The abuse only exacerbates from there.

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In nature, horses fully mature, don't fully mature until the age of six.

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So their bones are not done growing, their growth plates are not done fusing until around

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five or six years of age.

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Horse racing on the other hand, takes 18 month old horses, which on the maturation chart

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is a rough equivalent of a kindergartner or first grader and they put them into intensive

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training.

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It's there that the incessant grinding of these unformed bodies begins and this is all

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done with an eye toward racing them at two.

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Again, years before their bodies are fully mature.

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So this is what we see in the necropsies when we get full necropsies through our FOIA requests

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with the racing commissions around the country.

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We see four, three, even two year old horses.

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These are adolescents at best dying with chronic conditions like osteoarthritis and degenerative

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joint disease.

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Sometimes it's so bad that it's in all four limbs and this is just again a testament to

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that grinding of these unformed bodies that the industry puts these horses through.

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They are raced again at the age of two.

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Of course, there's the killing that goes on at the track or on the track, but something

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that a lot of people don't think about is the everyday, the day in, day out life of a

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horse.

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So as a rule, these animals are kept locked in tiny 12 by 12 stalls for over 23 hours

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a day by themselves.

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Social isolation and deprivation, these are naturally social herd animals and they are

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kept locked in these tiny stalls for 23 hours plus a day.

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So we see with the horses the same kinds of stereotypies or vices, abnormal behaviors

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that we used to see with the Ringland elephants, for example, the bobbing, the swaying, the

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weaving for horses, the kicking, digging, self mutilation.

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They do what's called wind sucking, which is they grab onto whatever they can find in

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the stall and suck in air through their mouths.

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This is clear, unequivocal evidence of emotional and mental duress that these animals are under

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and it's something that most people don't think about.

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When we testified before the New York State Senate in 2019, along with us was a prominent

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equine veterinarian here in upstate New York, Dr. Craig Kulakowski, and he likened this

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to keeping a child locked in a 4 by 4 closet for 23 hours a day.

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So that should really bring it home to your listeners.

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So it's that day in and day out cruelty of confinement and negation, all their natural

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instincts and desires are being thwarted.

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They're not allowed to be a horse.

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They are of course drugged and doped.

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Most people know about that.

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They are whipped.

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Again, that's right there in full public view.

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Something that a lot of people don't think about are the bits.

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So a bit is a chunk of metal wedged into the soft palate of the horse's mouth and it's

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another means of control.

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It's attached to the reins and this is another way for the jockey to control the horses.

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Well not only does that cause pain in and of itself, it's a chunk of metal in the horse's

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mouth, but, and this is something we found out last summer, we were protesting out in

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front of Saratoga Racecourse and a prominent professional photographer was there taking

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shots of us and she was sympathetic to our cause and she said, I'm going into the track

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and maybe take some shots of the fans.

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Is there anything you'd like me to look for in particular?

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And Nicole asked her to take pictures of the horse's heads and specifically the paraphernalia

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on the heads.

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So she took these really strong impactful photos and we see animal abuse, but of course

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I always try to get expert testimony.

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So I reached out to our advisory board, a prominent animal behaviorist, Dr. Nicholas

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Dodman, who is a retired Tufts professor and he said, it's a little out of my wheelhouse,

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let me reach out to a colleague of mine from Tufts who specializes in equine ear, nose

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and throat.

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So this man who was retired was a little reluctant at first, we are an animal rights organization,

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needless to say, and he didn't want to necessarily be associated with that.

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And I said, Dr. Cocoel, we're looking for is your expert opinion on what you're seeing

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in these photographs.

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He came back with this devastating statement, Ryan, he talked about something I didn't know

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myself that horses are obligate nose breathers.

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So in nature, if they're running, they're maintaining a tight lip seal, they're not

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bringing in any air through their mouths.

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He said all those horses racing that day at Saratoga race course, perhaps the top track

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in the entire country are going to have these feelings of asphyxiation, suffocation, and

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he likened it to waterboarding.

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Because again, they're not able to close their mouths because of the bits makes that impossible.

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So that's what these horses are going to be experiencing.

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So it's something that no one ever thinks about.

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But of course, that's one of our major talking points, talking about the everyday cruelty

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that these horses endure.

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Of course, I can get into the killing, but I'm sure you have some follow up questions.

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Yes, many of them. But first, let's go back to what you said about breaking the horse.

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That is something we have heard before from watching a Western movie, or maybe what's

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popular right now is that Yellowstone TV series.

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So what is that about?

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How do we break a horse, the spirit of a horse?

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Yeah, well, as far as the specific steps that they take, I'm not entirely well versed on

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that.

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But of course, this is all part of the domestication process.

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It's the same thing we do with all domesticated animals.

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We have to make them client and submissive, docile.

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We have to tame them, take away that spirit, take away their autonomy.

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And nature, horses are fully autonomous beings.

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But of course, that wouldn't work.

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You have to be able to control them.

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It's all about control.

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And so the breaking process, again, how they go about doing it, I'm sure it is cruel in

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and of itself.

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But the end result is that you have, well, in theory, a client and submissive animal.

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So then you can go about and do what you want with that animal.

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But it's not perfect.

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It's not a perfect system.

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We see in the race charts, of course, I review the charts every single day.

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And they're kind of like little box scores for the betters.

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But in there, there are chart notes for each of the horses.

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And often I'll see, especially with two-year-olds who are under the whip for the very first

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time, they were fractious in the gate.

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They were unruly.

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They were difficult to load.

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These are the terms and the phrases that the chart writer will use for some of these horses

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because the taming process has not been completed at that point.

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So again, this is just another example of how they take away the horse's autonomy and

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true nature.

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And I guess the horses we see on the tracks are like the elite, the tip of the iceberg.

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Behind every horse we see on the track, there are many others that went through the same

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horrific training but were not selected as champions.

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Would that assessment be correct?

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That's a very, very good point, Ryan.

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So we do know how many horses are registered to race each year.

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So for just thoroughbreds, for example, it's roughly around 18,000 or so.

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In a very telling turn of phrase, they use full crop, the number of new horses coming

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into the system each year.

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And indeed, it is a crop, right?

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But we have no idea how many potential racehorses are bred each year.

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No idea.

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Of course, there's no tracking going on.

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They don't want the public to know how many of these animals don't even get that far.

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And then even if they are registered to race, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're

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going to end up in a race.

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Some of them don't make it to the track.

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So those are the discarded, the throwaways.

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And for some, it's the slaughterhouse.

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For others, perhaps an early euthanasia before they even have a chance to live at all.

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So yeah, it's a very, very good point.

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There are so many untold horses out there that, again, it's all about trying to find

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the next champion, right?

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And there's about 100 tracks in the US that operate consistently, not all throughout the

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whole year.

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And then there's over 100 training tracks.

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Over 200, actually.

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Over 200 training tracks.

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And there's also horse racing at over 100 state and county fairs.

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So there's a lot of racing.

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There's a lot of horses in the system.

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But we can't, like Patrick said, track every single horse.

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We get a lot of information, but we can't obtain all of that information.

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And who is participating to this economic activity?

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Can anyone decide to breed a horse and train that horse to become a horse racing champion?

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And I want to have an idea of who are the people behind the industry and what is the

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profit that they're making and what drives their ambitions here?

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Sure.

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So it's a spectrum.

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We have at the very top, wealthy individuals.

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Celebrities are involved often.

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Bill Parcells, famous football coach, is also a famous thoroughbred owner.

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There's a lot of money in the Middle East and in Asia.

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But then all the way down to the other end of the spectrum, we have people who are just

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living week to week and just trying to eke out a living.

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So it runs the whole spectrum here.

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We have some stables have maybe 100 or 100 plus horses.

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Others will only race maybe a handful of horses at a time.

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There are what's called syndicates.

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So for a small buy-in, anyone can own a part of a racehorse.

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It's something that the industry has tried to promote and market in recent years to try

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to generate more interest among the public.

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And that's exactly what they say.

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Look, for a very small investment, you can be part of the action here and you can own

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a share of a racehorse.

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So it runs the whole gamut.

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It reminds me of the fur industry.

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You have on one side this high-end luxury product and then on the flip side, you have

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the most horrific exploitation of animal that you can find.

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And this is the same situation, the same dynamic here.

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Because when I think about horse racing, I think about the royalty.

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I think about the queen.

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That's why I chose that introduction.

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I think about billionaires and it's something very luxurious and that's what inspires me

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when I think about it.

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But the cruelty aspect is very well hidden.

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So how do you explain the disparity between the image people have of horse racing and

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the reality of it?

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I mean, the kind of horrible details that you mentioned are on display for everyone

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to see, but everyone seems to be blind to what's happening on the track.

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So how do you explain that?

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That's an excellent question.

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It all comes down to marketing.

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It's brilliant marketing.

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It's been sold to us as a sport.

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Indeed, the sport of kings, to use your royalty analogy.

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I grew up in the 70s and 80s.

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I was a big, big sports fan.

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I had favorites in every sport and I didn't follow horse racing year round, but because

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it was sold to me as just another sport, I watched Seattle slew and affirm going for

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the Triple Crown.

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I knew who Secretariat was.

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I admired Secretariat.

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I remember when ESPN named him the 35th greatest athlete of the 20th century.

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So that's what we're up against as activists.

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We need to recondition the public mind.

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We need to get them to look through what they've been sold, what they've been told about horse

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racing and see it for what it actually is.

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And as you said, it's right there for all to see.

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I've got a page on the website, The Big Lie and What Other Sport?

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And I list off the things that apply to horse racing, but apply to no other accepted sport

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on the planet.

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And of course it's not a sport.

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Of course it's just exploitation of a weaker species for $2 bets for gambling.

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And so that's what our job as advocates is to get people to reassess, to look at it through

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a fresh lens.

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And we're confident that if they do and if they take into consideration the changes within

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just animal entertainment over the past decade with Ringland Brothers shutting down and SeaWorld

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into climb because of blackfish, with rodeo bands in multiple cities around the country.

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And now dog racing is on death's door.

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There are only two dog tracks left in the entire country.

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And in fact, dog racing is prohibited on moral grounds in 42 states.

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So we say to people, look, if you think that dog racing is immoral or unethical or inhumane,

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then why is there any difference or what is the difference?

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How can you justify horse racing?

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And I think that if you look at it from that perspective, it should be clear to most people.

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And I think that because most of us only a lot, there's horse racing in 38 states.

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So I think most of us, most people that I know or only know about the Triple Crown.

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So they know about Kentucky Derby Day.

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They know that there's parties and they know about that.

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And I also think that's why horse racing kind of flew under the radar for animal rights

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activists for so many years.

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You talked about fur.

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We've been fighting, educating, protesting fur since the 70s, you know, and maybe before

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that as far as my knowledge goes back.

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But horse racing wasn't there.

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So I think that, you know, we see these, you know, horses on TV for the Triple Crown for

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the Kentucky Derby.

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And we see that they're being treated like royalty and they're being bathed and combed

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and kissed and they have roses all over them.

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And I think even activists were like, oh, those horses are probably fine, you know,

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until, you know, we came around and Patrick started to expose the truth.

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But there's so much horse racing at such a lower level, right?

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And a lot of our backyards that we don't even know about where these aren't champions, these

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horses aren't worth anything but $2,000 price tag maybe, you know, and I think that that's

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another reason why it kind of, you know, people don't really pay attention.

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They're not all betting on it.

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It's not something, you know, that's happening everywhere.

268
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Well let me ask this question, a bit of a challenging question.

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Is there any world in which horse racing would be ethical?

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Would there be any version of horse racing where it would be considered like something

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that does not harm horses?

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Or is it by its nature an activity that will only harm and victimize horses?

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It's the latter clearly.

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So it's, well we say it's an inherently cruel and inevitably deadly and that's something

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I would like to talk about is the death on and at the track.

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So when we started, we decided we needed hard evidence, facts to go after this behemoth

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of an industry.

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I started filing FOIA requests with racing commissions immediately, trying to get information

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on the number of horses and the details of those deaths around the country.

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It's something that before we started, no one knew how many horses were dying at American

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tracks let alone the circumstances in which they were dying.

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So since 2014 on our website, we have confirmed and documented almost 10,000 kills, 10,000

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names, dates, locations, and details.

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We estimate however that over 2,000 horses are dying at US tracks every year.

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Over 2,000, that's roughly six horses every day.

286
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Imagine that.

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00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:21,160
So to your question about is there a world where this could be made acceptable, if one

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00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:28,520
horse dies, horse racing, if one horse dies, it is indefensible, right?

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And even if no horses died, the other attendant cruelties that I spoke about would still exist.

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They are not allowed to be horses.

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They're not allowed to be what nature intended.

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It is inherently cruel, as I mentioned.

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And as far as the death at the track, it's something that most people think of a broken

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leg and euthanasia and that's the death.

295
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:59,040
And although that does account for more than half of deaths at the track or on the track,

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they die in other various ways.

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We see them dying of blunt force head trauma, for instance, from collisions with other horses

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or the track itself.

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We see them dying of what's called a cardiovascular collapse or a sudden cardiac event.

300
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In essence, their hearts give out.

301
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:21,440
These are animals again, who are mostly still in puberty and adolescence, just keeling

302
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,200
over and dying.

303
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We see them dying of pulmonary hemorrhage, which means that they bled out from their

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lungs.

305
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There's even a term that the racing industry uses, it's called exercise-induced pulmonary

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hemorrhage.

307
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They know what happens.

308
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It happens on a regular basis.

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They are racing so hard and so fast that there is a certain amount of bleeding in their lungs

310
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and if that bleeding becomes too much, they will literally bleed out because of it.

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I see on the charts all the time, forces return bleeding from the nostrils or just a simple

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00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,320
bled and that means that there's bleeding in the lungs.

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That's how it manifests itself.

314
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We see them dying of broken necks.

315
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We see them dying of severed spines.

316
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:06,040
We see them dying of ruptured ligaments.

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00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,640
It's not just the broken legs, but the broken legs alone.

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If you take some time and read our website, you'll see it's all in the details.

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00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:25,960
It's all in the descriptions of those broken legs and multiple fractures, compound, common

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00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,600
root, which means it's shattered into many pieces, open fractures, which means that the

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bone broke through the skin.

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It's horrific in a word and this is happening every single day, not just on American tracks,

323
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,280
but on tracks across the world.

324
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,600
They also die back in their stalls.

325
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:52,200
Again, these are animals who are mostly still in puberty and adolescence, in between races,

326
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:58,200
so still very much active, dying quite painfully often back in their stalls from things like

327
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:04,480
colic, an abdominal affliction or laminitis, excruciating inflammation in the feet.

328
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:10,000
They die of pneumonia or other respiratory infections.

329
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Sometimes on the FOIA reports that I get, it'll simply say, found dead in the morning,

330
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,560
quote, found dead in the morning.

331
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,080
Again, these are animals two, three, four years old.

332
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:27,520
Again, it's impossible to defend, to justify.

333
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,840
This is the 21st century.

334
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,780
This was a 20th century gambling business.

335
00:24:32,780 --> 00:24:37,960
Even though it was sold as a sport, in the end, it's about gambling.

336
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:43,240
For decades, the horse racing industry had a virtual monopoly on legal gambling in this

337
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,320
country, dog racing, of course.

338
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,240
Today, there's no excuse.

339
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:56,160
If you want to gamble, then go to a casino, play the lottery or pick up your phone as

340
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:02,080
you can in 30 plus states around the country now and bet on real sports involving autonomous

341
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,820
human beings, basketball, football, baseball, no excuse.

342
00:25:06,820 --> 00:25:09,720
This is the 21st century.

343
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:15,440
Our message is very simple, enough, enough.

344
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:20,740
There must be also doping going on with those horses.

345
00:25:20,740 --> 00:25:29,120
If there is doping with athletes, human athletes, then there must be something like that with

346
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:30,120
horses.

347
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:38,160
Do we know if there's any kind of cheating going on, horses being injected with chemicals

348
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,160
to make them?

349
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:41,160
Certainly.

350
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,800
Yes, of course, there's doping.

351
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,720
They're always going to try to find an edge, just like you said, with human sports.

352
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,440
But there is a distinction to be made, Ryan, between doping and drugging violations.

353
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,740
Doping is illegal substances.

354
00:25:55,740 --> 00:26:04,720
Over the years, I've seen cocaine, Viagra, I think it's dimorphine, which is more powerful

355
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,520
than morphine.

356
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,760
Frog juice is the term that they use for it.

357
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,120
It comes from the backs of frogs in South America.

358
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:17,760
Caffeine, I've seen all kinds of drugs as far as doping is concerned.

359
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:22,600
But that is not as common as what you see in the reports every day about drug overages.

360
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:28,000
These are legal medications that there's just too much in the horse's system.

361
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,480
The goal, of course, is to numb the pain, mask injury, and keep them out on the track

362
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,880
because if they're not racing, they're not earning.

363
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,880
The drugging and doping is a big part of this.

364
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:43,400
Unfortunately, I think it gets outsized attention in the media and among the public.

365
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,520
There's a little too much focus on it.

366
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:51,780
The suggestion is that it could be cleaned up, like baseball with steroids.

367
00:26:51,780 --> 00:26:54,120
We can do something about the drugging and doping.

368
00:26:54,120 --> 00:27:01,700
In fact, there was federal legislation passed in 2020 and it created this new authority.

369
00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:05,680
It's called HISA, the Horse Racing Integrity and Safety Authority.

370
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:11,720
Their mandate is primarily to place the drugging and doping at American tracks.

371
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:17,080
It's a wrong, but it's not the worst thing that they do to horses.

372
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:24,400
You talked about secretary and I'm also thinking about the veterinarians involved with this

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00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,200
whole operation.

374
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:38,400
Often when we see images of horse owners, they look like if they care about their horses.

375
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:49,160
Why those people who are so close to the animal, who are witnessing the pain of the horse,

376
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:54,720
why are they not deciding in greater number?

377
00:27:54,720 --> 00:28:01,280
I don't know if there are some famous cases of people who have left this industry and

378
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,000
became outspoken about it.

379
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:12,840
My question is, why are they not sensitive to that pain if they are so close to the creature?

380
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,120
They know that horses feel pain.

381
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:26,160
They know that they are more complicated and that they're not machines.

382
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,520
How do you explain that they're not on our side?

383
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:36,560
It's a great question.

384
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,320
Of course, it's a million dollar question that we vegans ask all the time.

385
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:42,320
How do you not see it?

386
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:47,200
How do you not make that connection with a suffering being?

387
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:53,920
You could be a part of the solution simply by becoming vegan and just issuing all animal

388
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,760
products.

389
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,360
With horse racing, I have found over the years, Ryan, that there are two types of people.

390
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:05,800
I'm not a psychologist, but I think it's pretty straightforward here.

391
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:12,480
We have those who truly believe that these animals are happy and truly believe that they

392
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,920
love their horses and they care about their horses.

393
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,000
They're the ones that are on social media when a horse breaks down and they're saying

394
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:25,400
that it was bawling when I found out that the horse broke down.

395
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:26,480
They don't see it.

396
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,880
For them, there's this disconnect.

397
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,960
They don't see what we see.

398
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:40,240
There are others, though, who know exactly who they are and what they do and don't care.

399
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,240
For them, it's just a means to an end.

400
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,320
They'll publicly say the right things.

401
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,440
We get this from the industry all the time when they're putting out their statements,

402
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,000
when they're under a certain amount of scrutiny.

403
00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:00,840
Nothing is more important than the safety and well-being of our, quote, equine athletes.

404
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,360
That's all nonsense.

405
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,720
It's deception at its finest.

406
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,640
There are two types.

407
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,540
I've dealt with many, many from both sides over the years.

408
00:30:11,540 --> 00:30:16,880
In the former category, the ones who truly believe that there's nothing wrong with what

409
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,480
they're doing, there's no getting through to them.

410
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,280
We see it for what it is.

411
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:23,280
It's clearly exploitation.

412
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:24,280
Right?

413
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:32,240
I don't know how you can – you're forcing that horse to do something.

414
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:40,320
If that horse had a choice in the matter, he wouldn't want to be locked up in a tiny

415
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:47,000
stall and then thrust into a race every couple of weeks with a man sitting on top wielding

416
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,280
a whip, no less.

417
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:56,760
For the people who have been in this industry for their whole lives, it's a self-delusion

418
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,640
is what it is.

419
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,120
Those are the two types that we see.

420
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:08,400
As far as the owners of the horses from what our insiders or former people that work with

421
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,520
us, they tell us that the owners don't see their horse.

422
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,120
They don't visit their horse.

423
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,160
Their horse is a machine for them.

424
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,200
It's a money-making machine or whatever.

425
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:26,560
You're talking a lot of those – the ones you see are those high-level, those big race

426
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,240
days, Triple Crown days, all of that.

427
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,480
You'll see the owner in the winner's circle.

428
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,080
You don't see a lot of that at the lower tracks.

429
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,760
The veterinarians, it's a job.

430
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,000
They're compromised and that's what they're doing.

431
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:44,520
Patrick talked about Craig Kolakowski's, the veterinarian's testimony at the Senate

432
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,400
hearing.

433
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:51,240
He did start out and that can be found on our YouTube.

434
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:52,640
It's his testimony.

435
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:58,360
He talked about how he went to the racetrack to be a veterinarian there and he couldn't

436
00:31:58,360 --> 00:31:59,360
do it.

437
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:04,120
He walked away, but so many others.

438
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,080
So he gets it, but the others don't.

439
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,160
The others, for them, it's a revenue stream.

440
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:10,880
It's a job.

441
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,520
The trainers want injections.

442
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,640
They work together.

443
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:18,640
There's private vets.

444
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:19,640
There's track vets.

445
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,560
They're just part of the industry.

446
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,560
So they're going to do what they do.

447
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:30,160
I feel like for some of them, it's also almost like a religion.

448
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:31,160
It's intergenerational.

449
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:36,240
It's a family tradition.

450
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:42,400
When they talk about horse racing, it's almost like their spirituality or something.

451
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:51,360
They will have sculptures of horses everywhere and they're very proud of it, but they're

452
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,960
the bad guys.

453
00:32:53,960 --> 00:33:04,040
I think that they see horses as this sexy spiritual being, but they care about how the

454
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:11,280
horse makes them feel, not about how the horse feels ever.

455
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:12,760
The horse makes them feel good.

456
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:14,360
They love seeing the beauty of the horse.

457
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,000
It makes them feel good, but they're not seeing what they...

458
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:23,040
Like you say, for the tradition, well, my father did this, my grandfather did this,

459
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:28,720
and his father did this, and we've raised horses forever.

460
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:33,640
I think they know at their core somewhere, hopefully, that these horses belong together

461
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:41,120
and they shouldn't be created for suffering, but they don't see that, I'm sure.

462
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:48,920
I want to talk about the gambling aspect of it because that makes the whole issue even

463
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:54,240
more infuriating.

464
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:59,080
It's an issue I found...

465
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:06,540
I'm very passionate about the whole issue of gambling because first of all, it's something

466
00:34:06,540 --> 00:34:09,880
run by the state.

467
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:17,240
Also it is at the center of our most pressing issues of social inequality.

468
00:34:17,240 --> 00:34:23,880
Who is the biggest clientele of the gambling, the lottery, the betting world?

469
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,160
It's minorities.

470
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:34,100
It's low income people who are trapped in an addiction mind frame, in the addiction

471
00:34:34,100 --> 00:34:37,160
sickness.

472
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:47,440
I've heard of one person who was addicted to gambling on the horse tracks.

473
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:54,920
The stories you've heard before, missing the birthdays, asking for money from their family

474
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,600
members.

475
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:03,440
It's misery personified.

476
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:10,640
I wonder who are the consumers of the show of horse racing?

477
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:21,840
I guess part of them is the people who are addicted to gambling, the people who this

478
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,160
industry is preying on.

479
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:35,160
You are also the richest, the royalty and the billionaires we mentioned.

480
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:41,840
Am I missing another slot of the population here?

481
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:42,840
Sure.

482
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:48,240
I'm glad you brought up the economics because that's a huge part of this story and something

483
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:50,880
that most people are totally unaware of.

484
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:58,160
Horse racing in America is largely being propped up by taxpayer subsidies.

485
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:03,560
Some 75% of the industry would collapse virtually overnight if not for this corporate welfare,

486
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,140
massive corporate welfare.

487
00:36:05,140 --> 00:36:11,240
To use New York State, our own state, as an example, there are 11 tracks, 7 harness and

488
00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:12,920
4 thoroughbred.

489
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:19,600
If not for this money, which amounts to some $230 million per year in taxpayer money, that

490
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:24,480
9 of those 11 tracks would have shuttered years ago.

491
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:33,120
They've amassed some $3 billion in total corporate welfare since the program began around 2004.

492
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:40,120
It's the same thing in Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, Louisiana, right down the line.

493
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:45,400
The way it worked is around the turn of the century, horse racing was finding more and

494
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,840
more difficult to compete with casinos and state lotteries.

495
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,120
This is before sports betting, mind you.

496
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:58,880
Of course, they had a monopoly on gambling, as I mentioned, for decades and now they're

497
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,040
crying that they can't compete.

498
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,960
They went to state legislatures and they said simply, look, if you don't help us here, if

499
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,960
you don't give us a leg up, you are going to be responsible for putting so many thousands

500
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,840
of people out of work.

501
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,680
These numbers, by the way, they pluck out of thin air, these jobs numbers.

502
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,160
But that's a whole other issue.

503
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,360
Back then it was an easy vote for state legislatures.

504
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,600
They didn't want to be on the wrong side of a jobs issue, so they voted these subsidies

505
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:26,600
in.

506
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:31,440
Only recently in the past few years has this started to get more attention.

507
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:36,140
First, the governor of Pennsylvania at the time, Governor Wolf, put it as part of his

508
00:37:36,140 --> 00:37:43,120
budget a proposal to take $200 million annually that Pennsylvania horse racing was receiving

509
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:48,160
and apply it to college scholarships for Pennsylvanians.

510
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,760
Here in New York, we are part of a coalition that introduced legislation to take the subsidies

511
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,320
away from New York horse racing.

512
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,880
All state sanctioned gambling, whether it's casinos or lotteries or sports betting or

513
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:05,440
horse racing, is supposed to, in theory, support education, school children, right?

514
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:11,160
So we are literally cheating school children in New York out of $1 billion every four years.

515
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:16,200
Imagine how many new teachers we could hire, lunch programs we could fund, infrastructure

516
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:17,640
we could repair.

517
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:18,640
It's mind boggling.

518
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:23,560
So you take the cruelty component out of it entirely, it's a no-brainer.

519
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,240
Stop propping up this dying industry.

520
00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:36,160
As far as the typical bettor, the demographics are skewing very, very poorly for horse racing

521
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,340
and it's not going to get any better.

522
00:38:39,340 --> 00:38:45,760
The typical horse player, this is the lifelong gambler, is a 65-year-old guy, right?

523
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,880
They're not being replaced by the younger generations.

524
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,160
And the reason for that is twofold.

525
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,960
Yes, there is more competition for the gambling dollar.

526
00:38:53,960 --> 00:39:02,240
As mentioned, sports betting is sweeping the country and Gen X, millennials, or Gen Z,

527
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:07,680
I should say, millennials, they're just going to pick up their phone and bet on basketball,

528
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,320
football, and baseball.

529
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,640
But the other component is change of sensibilities.

530
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:17,160
So you don't have to be vegan or an animal rights activist to look at this and say, why

531
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:23,760
would I want to bet on an activity that requires an animal to be whipped when I can go to a

532
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:28,640
casino or bet on my phone, basketball, football, what have you.

533
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:35,580
So clearly long-term, this is very, very bad for horse racing and it's not going to improve.

534
00:39:35,580 --> 00:39:40,360
So it's our job to get those subsidies reversed and take that money away from them.

535
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:45,560
And we would be helping school children and at the same time, be saving horses.

536
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:46,560
Yes.

537
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:52,360
And also saving those people who are trapped by their addiction.

538
00:39:52,360 --> 00:40:00,640
I think that a great number of horse racing tracks have introduced slot machines to their

539
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,560
whole services provided.

540
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,320
The slot machines are a subsidy.

541
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:07,320
That is a subsidy.

542
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:08,320
So that's not right.

543
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:16,480
So instead of the whole percentage going back to the state, a certain section of it is being

544
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,760
siphoned off for the horse racing operation.

545
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:24,840
So that's how they receive their subsidies typically, is through slot machines or other

546
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:25,840
table games.

547
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:32,940
So at those tracks in New York State, there's one thoroughbred track, but the harness tracks

548
00:40:32,940 --> 00:40:41,360
have the casino, the racino, we call it, attached and all of the people are at the slot machines

549
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,740
and there's nobody watching racing.

550
00:40:43,740 --> 00:40:51,200
So we did a photo essay of that where we went into all of those tracks, we sent people in

551
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,320
and to take pictures of those stands and nobody was there.

552
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:55,320
So that's why there's a subsidy.

553
00:40:55,320 --> 00:41:01,180
So it's kind of like, it's gambling, it's a gambling business.

554
00:41:01,180 --> 00:41:05,520
So you see at tracks like Saratoga, it's more of a social scene.

555
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:10,600
Yes, people are gambling, but there's a lot more people in those grounds that aren't gambling.

556
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:19,160
They're having picnics, it's just a different, totally different type of setup.

557
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:26,100
But then the smaller tracks around the country, the Mountaineer and the Thistle Down, those

558
00:41:26,100 --> 00:41:30,000
are the ones without even the casinos attached.

559
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,780
Those are all you see as gamblers sitting there.

560
00:41:32,780 --> 00:41:34,180
Those are lower level tracks.

561
00:41:34,180 --> 00:41:37,140
There's no fanfare, there's no roses, there's no celebrities.

562
00:41:37,140 --> 00:41:42,840
These are lower level tracks and that's the kind of clientele that they have to answer

563
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,600
that question.

564
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,660
But those are subsidized too.

565
00:41:48,660 --> 00:41:52,120
So they are bringing in more gambling.

566
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:57,480
But when Greyhound Racing was kind of coming to an end, they did a lot of decoupling, so

567
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,960
they took away that connection.

568
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:06,600
So in New York State and I don't know, in all of the subsidy states, but they can't

569
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,600
have that casino without the racing.

570
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:09,600
So that's the deal.

571
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,580
If you want to open that casino, you have to have racing too.

572
00:42:12,580 --> 00:42:22,080
So it's another way to keep racing alive and create more gambling, I guess too.

573
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:28,580
I think we did a great job at describing the problem in details.

574
00:42:28,580 --> 00:42:34,240
And now I want to talk about what we can do to resolve what is happening.

575
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:41,280
And you mentioned many of the actions you have taken, but I want to start with the origins

576
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:47,380
of your passion for fighting horse racing.

577
00:42:47,380 --> 00:42:49,400
So how did it start?

578
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:58,840
How did you take an interest and how did you create horse racing wrongs?

579
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:04,840
Sure, so it started because I was writing a blog for our local newspaper here in upstate

580
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,680
New York, the Albany Times Union, and it was an animal rights blog.

581
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,000
I was trying to cover all the various animal issues.

582
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,800
When I started researching horse racing, two things jumped out.

583
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,320
First there was a dearth of information.

584
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,800
Again, no one knew how many horses were dying.

585
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,260
No one knew about the other kinds of cruelties.

586
00:43:20,260 --> 00:43:22,960
And I knew instinctively that this is bad, this is cruel.

587
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,560
Again, I was vegan at the time and an animal rights activist.

588
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:32,480
And second, I found that there was no group, big or small, committed to this issue.

589
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:37,640
We had protesters, as Nicole mentioned, in front of Ringland Brothers for going back

590
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,000
decades.

591
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,920
There were groups dedicated to fur and factory farming and animal testing.

592
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,480
A dog racing had great 2K.

593
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,160
Horse racing, there was nothing in this country.

594
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:54,240
So I saw a big void in the animal rights community and decided I was going to try to fill it.

595
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:59,240
I didn't know anything about horses because I didn't grow up with horses.

596
00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:03,560
The only thing I knew about horse racing was as a sports fan growing up.

597
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:09,400
So I really had to immerse myself in the issue and had to learn very quickly about horses

598
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:10,400
and horse racing.

599
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:11,400
So that's how it began.

600
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,080
And then I came along.

601
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:20,180
And I went to my first protest and fell in love with protesting.

602
00:44:20,180 --> 00:44:27,480
So as Patrick was gathering this information and putting this data together, I was like,

603
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,480
OK, we need to start protesting.

604
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:34,040
And then we started because we live near Saratoga.

605
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:38,520
And I went there as a child every year with my parents and as an adult until I went vegetarian.

606
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,080
I was like, there's animals here.

607
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,480
I probably shouldn't be here anymore.

608
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,840
But then I didn't know why until Patrick and I started working together.

609
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:55,320
And then I found all of these activists, local vegans and people that weren't vegan, they

610
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:56,440
hated the track.

611
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:03,960
And now they're learning why they shouldn't go, why they hate it, or more reasons to hate

612
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:04,960
it.

613
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:05,960
And then they started coming too.

614
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:12,660
So then I said, OK, we need to do this across the country and then be able to have posters

615
00:45:12,660 --> 00:45:18,080
and signs and guidance and take everything that we've learned protesting at one of the

616
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:23,240
biggest tracks, the oldest tracks in the country, and help people all over the country, help

617
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:24,240
activists.

618
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:27,480
And Nicole has really taken the organization to a whole new level.

619
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:34,640
We are national, obviously, and we've sponsored protests in over 20 states, over 25 tracks,

620
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:35,640
I believe.

621
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,320
We've had over 70 protests across the country this year.

622
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,280
Just this year, yeah.

623
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,540
And she's being a little bit humble here.

624
00:45:43,540 --> 00:45:49,720
But when we started at Saratoga, when Nicole started with the protests, organizing protests,

625
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:51,200
we had maybe 10 people.

626
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:52,440
There was five people.

627
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:53,440
Five in the first year.

628
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,680
I drove home crying because the people were so mean.

629
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,000
Yeah, before COVID.

630
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,640
And this is not a major metropolitan area.

631
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,800
It's Albany is the capital, but it's not New York City by any stretch.

632
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:10,080
Before COVID, we were drawing 100 protesters for the Traverse Stakes, which is the big

633
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,440
race at Saratoga each August.

634
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,760
175 every weekend.

635
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:20,760
We actually, and Nicole, with some help from city activists in New York, we mobilized 150

636
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,520
for the Belmont Stakes back in 2018 or 19.

637
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:29,760
COVID obviously has put a crimp on some of this.

638
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,440
I think we've found, not just with us, that it's more difficult to get people to come

639
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,680
out, but we still draw.

640
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:41,320
We still have a real dedicated, passionate group, not just locally, but around the country.

641
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,280
And it's all because of Nicole's hard work.

642
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:45,760
What else?

643
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:50,040
I was going to say something else and you embarrassed me.

644
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:55,780
So back to that, we had five at our first one, and then I cried and went home.

645
00:46:55,780 --> 00:46:56,780
And then I said, we're going back.

646
00:46:56,780 --> 00:47:00,200
And then we had 20, and then we just kept building.

647
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:08,840
But the most important thing, and what I like to tell every vegan that's listening or at

648
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,400
home, you have to be a voice for the animals every single day.

649
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,400
It's not enough just to be vegan.

650
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:22,120
And I think a lot of us say, well, I'm vegan, so I'm saving X amount of animals, but that's

651
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:23,320
all you're saving.

652
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:24,320
You need to save more.

653
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:29,040
And those are the kinds of people that work and tend to share recipes and talk about restaurant

654
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,400
offerings and, hey, that's all fine.

655
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:36,960
But you have to take the next step because the animals, as Nicole said, desperately need

656
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:37,960
us.

657
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:45,320
And we feel that if you think back in our history, every great social justice movement

658
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:52,440
has started in the streets with protest, whether it's gender rights, sexual orientation, civil

659
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,920
rights, obviously, right down the line.

660
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:56,520
So animal rights is no different.

661
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,280
You have to voice your outrage.

662
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:04,280
You have to let the average person know there's something wrong here.

663
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:05,280
And this is why.

664
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:06,280
Educate.

665
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:07,280
So go ahead.

666
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:14,360
And one thing we found early on as we started protesting here were regular, everyday people

667
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,080
were contacting us and saying, I want to protest.

668
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:18,080
I hate this.

669
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,480
And now I know what's happening to the horses.

670
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,240
And they weren't vegan at the time.

671
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:26,360
And now they're standing next to vegans.

672
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,880
We're talking about vegan stuff and where we're going to go eat vegan food after.

673
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:30,880
And they became vegan.

674
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:36,920
So as we go through, I go through on social media and things.

675
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,040
I'm like, that person wasn't vegan when we met them.

676
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:40,040
And now they are.

677
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:41,040
And their whole family's vegan.

678
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:46,800
And it's just kind of when you bring the attention to the suffering of one animal to people,

679
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,160
then they kind of go home and they say, oh, what am I going to what am I eating?

680
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:51,160
I'm eating an animal.

681
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,360
So you start really bringing that in.

682
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,280
So it's satisfying in that way, too.

683
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:01,200
I think for us, we always think we're not doing enough for animals every day, even though

684
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:03,400
we're doing things every day.

685
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:07,560
But we think we're not doing enough for maybe chickens and cows and pigs and things like

686
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,320
that every day.

687
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,080
We're both vegan for a long time.

688
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:15,680
But that was part of it, too.

689
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:22,280
I'm so glad to hear you say that, because that's the whole reason why I started this

690
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:23,280
podcast.

691
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,720
It's a call for action.

692
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:32,520
So Nicole, you mentioned how you were crying because of some people, I guess, that were

693
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,320
against your protest.

694
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:42,400
What kind of opposition did you have and still have against your initiative?

695
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:46,280
I don't know if I understand the question.

696
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:47,280
Pushback.

697
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:48,280
Oh, pushback?

698
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:49,280
Pushback.

699
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,120
So well, that was a long time ago.

700
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:53,780
So there we were overpowered.

701
00:49:53,780 --> 00:49:59,880
So the corner we were standing on, the five of us or six of us, I think it was five, there's

702
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:02,400
a stoplight and they have a traffic.

703
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:06,120
I don't know, someone could cross the road.

704
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:10,880
Well, to tell you the purpose, it's really important to know that for people who don't

705
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:15,080
understand horse racing, Saratoga is one of a handful of tracks.

706
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,600
We're talking over about 100 tracks nationally.

707
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:24,520
Only a handful are true draws that truly are self-sufficient, popular destinations and

708
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:25,920
Saratoga is one of them.

709
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,240
So it just happens to be in our backyard.

710
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:33,000
So when Nicole talks about the masses of people coming across the street, you have to understand

711
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:37,800
if you go to some of these average tracks around the country, you don't see these kinds

712
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:38,800
of people there.

713
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:40,680
They're not there for socialization.

714
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:41,680
Right.

715
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,480
But there was a lot of people.

716
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,240
So there's only a few of us standing on the corner.

717
00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:47,560
We were across the street.

718
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:49,940
So they were just kind of yelling at us like, you don't know what you're talking about

719
00:50:49,940 --> 00:50:50,940
and stuff like that.

720
00:50:50,940 --> 00:50:55,400
And so it was hard because I've done, you know, I did all kinds of protests for Free

721
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,800
Friday and I did, you know, all the different circuses and everything like that.

722
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,840
So that was just tough because I wasn't ready.

723
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:07,360
You know, I wasn't ready for this, but it was a learning experience.

724
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:13,520
So then as we just kept going, we do, it depends on how we're protesting, I feel like.

725
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,400
We usually send out leafletters to talk to people.

726
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,080
We set up a camera.

727
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:19,080
You can see that on our YouTube.

728
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,160
We set up a camera and interviewed people.

729
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:25,680
They didn't know who we were, but just asking them like why they why they're here and did

730
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,660
they know that horses are dying and did they know about the cruelty.

731
00:51:28,660 --> 00:51:30,240
So that was good.

732
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:34,000
So we get, you know, people are going to they tell you to get a job.

733
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:38,720
You know, it's the same old, you know, stories, get a life, get a job and all that.

734
00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:44,760
But no matter what people say, when we're to us, it's like sticks and stones.

735
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:45,760
Right.

736
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,200
We're going we're never going to suffer as much as the horses.

737
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:52,520
So I always tell everyone, you know, even when I'm asking people to call up the governor's

738
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:56,640
office or call their legislator, just tell yourself it's for the horses and it just flows

739
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:57,640
out.

740
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:58,640
It's so much easier.

741
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:03,440
So I think we do get a lot of, you know, there's a lot of people that say things and I think

742
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:09,120
Nicole is she's got a got a great line that she uses.

743
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:20,120
You know, look at any human activity, there's always going to be, you know, human rivalries,

744
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:21,960
human conflict.

745
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:23,440
And that goes with animal rights.

746
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:27,880
Also, there's we've seen it, even though we share values.

747
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,600
There are still people out there that we don't necessarily like.

748
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:31,600
Right.

749
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:33,440
But Nicole has a great approach to it.

750
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:35,400
She says, ask yourself two questions.

751
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,280
Does it help the horses and does it move the mission forward?

752
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,440
And if it doesn't, then don't waste your time on it.

753
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,800
Just don't get on social media.

754
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:48,200
Don't fight with the people walking by because the person behind them may be the person you

755
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:49,200
reach.

756
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,640
So yeah, and that's a terrific approach.

757
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,560
I tell my whole team to it's challenging at times.

758
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:55,560
Right.

759
00:52:55,560 --> 00:53:00,680
You know, you know, I'm sure to just kind of let things go, let things slide.

760
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,160
But it's it's all about the horses in the end.

761
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:04,160
Right.

762
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:05,160
And or animals in general.

763
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,600
The truth is on your side.

764
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:08,600
You can't lose.

765
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:10,720
So I will remember that.

766
00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:14,440
I mean, it's a it's a terrific philosophy.

767
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:16,440
Isn't it?

768
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:17,440
Yes.

769
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:29,600
OK, so if I am a vegan or someone who opposes horse racing and it's happening in my locality

770
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:33,380
in where I am, where I live, what can I do?

771
00:53:33,380 --> 00:53:35,800
Can I contact you guys?

772
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:43,500
Do you have things set up for me maybe to start a protest?

773
00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:47,200
Will you help me in my action?

774
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:48,200
So yes.

775
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:53,400
So, yeah, so you can go to our website, horseracingrawlings.org.

776
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,440
If you scroll down on the front page, there's a contact form.

777
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:57,440
Is it a contact form there?

778
00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:59,280
I think it is.

779
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,360
And then you can email me or find me on social media.

780
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:08,120
You can email me at Nicole at horseracingrawlings.com.

781
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:13,640
And then we will set you up with I'll send you out leaflets and posters and we'll help

782
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:15,840
you with your Facebook event page.

783
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:17,960
We'll get an event page up on our website.

784
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:23,200
We'll give you tips and tricks and everything you need so you're not doing it alone.

785
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:24,200
Yeah.

786
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:25,200
For your friends.

787
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:26,200
Yeah.

788
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:27,200
Yeah.

789
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:28,200
Yeah.

790
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:29,200
Yeah.

791
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:30,200
Yeah.

792
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:31,200
Yeah.

793
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,880
And, you know, it doesn't just it doesn't have to be just, you know, protesting.

794
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:37,840
There are other ways to get involved.

795
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:38,840
Yeah, we do.

796
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:39,840
Yes.

797
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:46,640
And also something that our Maryland organizer, Jennifer Sully, has been doing a lot is she

798
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,080
does a lot of outreach at Pimlico Racecourse when it's not even open.

799
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,120
It's one of the Triple Crown tracks.

800
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:57,640
And it's in a neighborhood, which Saratoga is in a neighborhood too, but not all tracks

801
00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:58,760
are like that.

802
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:03,400
But they stand with signs and leaflets and they talk to people at the red lights and

803
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:08,560
they just hand out leaflets and just really just talk to people and have conversations.

804
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:14,080
The Maryland State Fair, we do that too or any fairgrounds where there's horse racing.

805
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:19,080
No signs, no megaphones, just talking to people saying, you know, horse racing happens here

806
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:25,240
and just trying to educate everyone, especially in those subsidy states, but every, you know,

807
00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:28,840
about the subsidies, but just educate as many people as possible.

808
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:33,440
The more gambling dollars we can take away, the more people that will get upset and will

809
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:38,720
take that next step to talk to their legislators about it and educate them.

810
00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:43,480
And that's what it's just it's grassroots all the way.

811
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:47,640
And just so you know, we are winning.

812
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:48,780
We are winning.

813
00:55:48,780 --> 00:55:53,600
So since the year 2000, this can be found on our website, 43 tracks around the country

814
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:54,800
have closed.

815
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,600
So the industry is contracting as we talk.

816
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:00,640
All the metrics are down across the board.

817
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:05,440
As I mentioned, the demographics are really, really bad going forward.

818
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:10,760
I had conversations with editors at the Washington Post and the Philadelphia Inquirer and shortly

819
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:17,120
thereafter, both editorial boards came out to end horse racing, not to reform it, but

820
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:18,120
to end.

821
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,320
That's a sea change from where we began.

822
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:25,360
In the beginning, we were told, hey, you guys are you're crazy, you're radical extremists.

823
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:27,240
You're never going to shut this industry down.

824
00:56:27,240 --> 00:56:31,400
It's too big, too powerful, too much money, too much history.

825
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:32,400
We are winning.

826
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:33,760
There's no question in my mind.

827
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:37,440
And you look at dog racing and where that is, we will be there someday.

828
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:41,880
And it's just a question of how fast we can get there and how many of these beautiful

829
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,720
animals lives we can save in the process.

830
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:47,560
Yeah, we should not wait.

831
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:53,160
You know, those horses are waiting for us to save them to take action.

832
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,120
Six horses every day are dying.

833
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:56,440
They can't wait any longer.

834
00:56:56,440 --> 00:57:00,720
So if you want to help, please reach out to us.

835
00:57:00,720 --> 00:57:04,640
And Nicole, she's again, she's terrific.

836
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:09,360
And there are many, many ways to join us.

837
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:10,360
Absolutely.

838
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:15,680
Go vegan, right?

839
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:25,240
And I would like to hear you talk about maybe quickly the situation outside of the US.

840
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:39,360
I guess for some countries like the UK, horse racing has a bigger cultural value than elsewhere.

841
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:44,360
What is the situation at the international level?

842
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:46,560
All horses are suffering and dying everywhere.

843
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:53,000
That's one of the misconceptions we often hear that the problem is American horse racing.

844
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:54,200
That's a lie.

845
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:56,160
They die everywhere.

846
00:57:56,160 --> 00:58:03,640
We have partnered with Coalition for the Protection of Race Horses in Australia and New Zealand,

847
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:05,320
Animal Aid in the UK.

848
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:10,360
I believe there's a group in Italy that we've had contact with.

849
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:16,120
We've had shared actions, haven't we, with them.

850
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,200
But Nicole can speak to that.

851
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,160
Well, they do their own.

852
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:26,600
They don't have the, from my knowledge, they don't have the FOIA.

853
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:33,000
Yeah, they don't seem to have access, the same access to information that we do.

854
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,480
They find information, but we do work with them on actions.

855
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:41,680
We meet up with them a couple times a year to see how things are going on their end and

856
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:46,280
if we pick each other's brain and have any new ideas.

857
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:52,120
But yeah, I think the people, the apologists in the American horse racing industry will

858
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:57,000
say, oh, we need to start doing it like they do over in Europe because there's no horses

859
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,680
dying there, but they simply can't find the information.

860
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:00,680
They are dying.

861
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:08,560
They are dying and you'll see during those big races in the UK and in Australia, if you

862
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:16,960
go on Animal Aid and CPR, you will find that they are reporting on those because they are

863
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,160
getting exposed at that level.

864
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,080
And slaughter, horse slaughter, we didn't talk about that yet.

865
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:23,880
You can talk about that if you want.

866
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,960
And horse slaughter is happening in those countries too.

867
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:28,680
So these horses are being tossed away.

868
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:32,160
You know, three, four, five, six year old horses are being sent to slaughter when they're

869
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:33,760
no longer useful.

870
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:34,760
Yes.

871
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:41,040
I guess they're not profitable to keep alive anymore.

872
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:48,680
That's the, that's how it's in short, it's horse racing's retirement program as a slaughterhouse.

873
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:54,800
We estimate that more than half of spent or simply no longer wanted race horses end up

874
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,320
in what can only be described as equine hell.

875
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:01,240
These are prey animals, slight animals.

876
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:08,120
And when they get into these slaughterhouses after being trucked sometimes 28 to 36 hours

877
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:13,960
without food, water or rest, in America we don't slaughter right now currently on US

878
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:14,960
soil.

879
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,480
So we ship them to Canada and Mexico to be slaughtered.

880
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:21,640
And they get into those slaughterhouses and the sights, sounds and smells of death are

881
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:23,320
all around them.

882
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:31,040
Of course, all slaughter is horrific, but for these slight animals it's even more so

883
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:36,040
if you can imagine because they are desperately trying to escape.

884
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:42,960
And often that shot that's supposed to render them unconscious or to outright kill them,

885
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:47,720
that takes multiple tries because the animals are flailing about.

886
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:52,560
There's video, undercover video from Canada depicting just that.

887
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:57,400
And then of course they are shackled and hung upside down and slashed through their carotid

888
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,640
artery, bled out and butchered for their meat.

889
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:06,760
And yeah, so the bottom line is it's one final profit on these horses' heads.

890
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:11,940
There's not enough space or money to take care of all the animals that they're producing

891
01:01:11,940 --> 01:01:13,240
every year.

892
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:15,560
And so this is what happens as the end result.

893
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:22,720
We're talking multiple thousands, multiple thousands annually of former American racehorses

894
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:26,320
again landing in equine hell at the end of their so-called careers.

895
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:34,520
Horses being live exported to Asia for human consumption just like all the horses.

896
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:39,520
Yeah, unfortunately there's a demand for horse meat in Europe and Asia.

897
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:44,280
And you know if there's a demand, they're going to find a way to meet that demand.

898
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:53,040
So we find it as Americans and obviously we're vegan but just speaking for the average American,

899
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:55,320
the horse meat is taboo.

900
01:01:55,320 --> 01:02:01,120
Right, but in other countries it's the same as eating cows or pigs.

901
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:08,360
So yeah, that's the bottom line with these animals who are given these whimsical names

902
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:15,000
and once cheered on to end in this misery, horrible.

903
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:21,400
Yeah, they need to maximize their revenues at any cost.

904
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:25,200
They don't care about the cruelty they inflict on animals.

905
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:36,640
They don't care about creating addiction in their locals and destroying the economy.

906
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:42,000
I mean there is no redeeming quality to this industry.

907
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:43,000
Not at all.

908
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,320
Back to your question about the owners and veterinarians.

909
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:47,160
I mean that just explains it.

910
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:48,600
They're just a cog in the machine.

911
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:54,280
They're just a moneymaker and then when they're done they just move on to the next course.

912
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:55,480
I mean think about this, right?

913
01:02:55,480 --> 01:03:03,840
So I mentioned earlier the big lie and go through the what other sport does this happen.

914
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:10,200
Imagine an athlete, a human athlete dying in a basketball game or a football game.

915
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:17,040
Not only would that shock the whole country, but obviously the game would end, right?

916
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:18,040
Not in horse racing.

917
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:23,600
They get that dead animal off the track and the entertainment goes on.

918
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:25,560
Next race, next horse up.

919
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:26,560
Imagine that.

920
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:28,080
So it's obscene.

921
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,200
There's no other words to use.

922
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,960
It's obscene to call horse racing a sport.

923
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaking of deaths, we hear about that often from the apologists that well human athletes

924
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,200
suffer injuries.

925
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:52,000
Horse racing kills as many in one day, one single day, than the four major professional

926
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:58,480
sports leagues in this country have in their collective 400 plus year history.

927
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:03,840
In one day horse racing kills more than I think three basketball, football, baseball

928
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:05,480
and hockey.

929
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:10,760
Three athletes have died in a game in that collective 400 plus year history and horse

930
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:12,780
racing kills about six every single day.

931
01:04:12,780 --> 01:04:16,000
So let's stop calling it a sport, folks.

932
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:25,440
Yeah, the more I think about it and the more truly it looks like a symbol of animal exploitation,

933
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:33,640
the cheering, the obscenity that is visible to all but invisible, the dying in the tracks

934
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:37,840
like you said and continuing the show at any cost.

935
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:46,840
I mean, the closest thing to that would be the corrida in Spain, I guess.

936
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:47,840
Yes.

937
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:50,440
Yeah, full public display, right?

938
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:53,240
And I talk about that when we're whipping.

939
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:54,340
Imagine.

940
01:04:54,340 --> 01:05:00,360
So if you saw someone whipping his dog in the park, you would call 911 and that person

941
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:04,800
would be arrested on the spot in many states for a felony, animal cruelty.

942
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,240
And yet at the racetrack, it's part of the tradition.

943
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:10,440
It goes on in full public view.

944
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:14,400
And let's make no mistake, whipping hurts horses.

945
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:15,400
It hurts horses.

946
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:18,320
And I've got quotes on the website from people in the industry.

947
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:20,480
Of course it hurts horses.

948
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:25,120
And they're whipping the horses the most at the moment the people are cheering.

949
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:29,300
They want their horse to win the ticket they have in their hand and they're cheering.

950
01:05:29,300 --> 01:05:33,640
And that's when most of the whipping is happening, those last couple seconds before the horses

951
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:35,120
cross the finish line.

952
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:39,240
So they're cheering and they're just in that.

953
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:44,920
And I know that from doing it myself and being there and witnessing it as a child.

954
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:53,280
And that was it's a benefit now that I can look back and I always say don't feel bad

955
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:54,880
because you weren't vegan.

956
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:56,200
Don't feel bad because you took part.

957
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:57,200
You're not now.

958
01:05:57,200 --> 01:05:59,480
Don't waste time and energy on that.

959
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:01,080
Use that to your advantage.

960
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:02,960
Use it to how you can change people.

961
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:09,980
Use it to so I know that that's when the horses are being beaten the most is when people are

962
01:06:09,980 --> 01:06:13,480
cheering and they don't see it because they're so selfish.

963
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:20,320
They just want their horse to win so they can go to the window and collect their winnings.

964
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:33,160
Well I truly love your optimism even after describing in details what is happening in

965
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:34,920
the world of horse racing.

966
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:41,280
I'm coming from this conversation with the sense of you know I can do something about

967
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:45,960
it and this is not a tragedy.

968
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:48,640
This can be avoided.

969
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:57,160
And I guess yeah it's because of your optimism in the face of that evil.

970
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:06,160
Have you ever met one of those horses maybe saved and cared for in a sanctuary?

971
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:13,560
We have some people that we work with that have rescued and I get pictures and I get

972
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:15,560
video so that's really nice.

973
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:22,560
We have visited stagswarers and had our spiritual moments with these people.

974
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:25,560
An elegant animal.

975
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:26,560
Yeah of course.

976
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:33,160
Hey look at we're in this to the very end and it's horse racing is either going to you

977
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:36,600
know I'm either going to go first or horse racing is going to go first but you know this

978
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:43,360
is I've dedicated my life and Nicole has to to ending this and I feel very confident that

979
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:44,360
we will get there.

980
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:50,920
And the reason why I'm so optimistic is even on my hardest days and we have hard days especially

981
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:54,800
when foyers come in and we have to read that that's those are the hardest days.

982
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:58,920
But then I was I was taking a walk one day I was having a really hard day and then I

983
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:04,600
realized that for I always use 150 years because that's how old Saratoga race course is a little

984
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:11,880
bit over that now but for over 150 years these horses suffered in silence and died unnoticed

985
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:16,640
but because of the work we're doing and all of the people I'm grateful for every single

986
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:20,480
grateful for you and every person listening and everyone who has joined us follows us

987
01:08:20,480 --> 01:08:25,240
on social media whatever who are opening their hearts to these horses but because of all

988
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:31,200
of these people that these horses are seen and they're loved and they're fought for

989
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:32,840
every single day.

990
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:36,160
So that just gives me hope because people care.

991
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:40,800
It's you know when we started this it was hard because we were like are people going

992
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:46,040
to care is this big enough for people to care about does it it's in 38 states so does everyone

993
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:51,480
get touched by this but I talk to people every single day and I answer my messages all the

994
01:08:51,480 --> 01:08:57,520
time so people feel sad you can reach out to me and I'll make you feel better but these

995
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:02,120
animals are loved they're seen and they're fought for and I do believe they know it they

996
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:04,760
know that we're out here for them.

997
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:08,960
I do believe that you know they know it and I hope that you know that that touches them

998
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:14,640
so that's gonna make me cry but but it's it is I think that we need to remember that

999
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:18,440
and and be grateful for all the people around us the other humans that are fighting and

1000
01:09:18,440 --> 01:09:23,320
working hard and trying to inspire the ones who maybe are afraid or there's a block you

1001
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:25,760
know to do it to and be their voice.

1002
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:32,240
Amazing I think it's a great message to end the conversation unless you had something

1003
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:33,240
more to say.

1004
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:37,600
No I think that's terrific and thank you for everything that you do.

1005
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:39,080
Yes thank you so much.

1006
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:46,120
Let me thank you for your work your inspiring work and for having accepted to appear on

1007
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:52,840
the show and to share with listeners what you're doing and your passion for fighting

1008
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:55,360
against horse racing.

1009
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:56,900
Thank you so much.

1010
01:09:56,900 --> 01:09:57,900
Thank you Ryan.

1011
01:09:57,900 --> 01:09:59,520
It's great meeting you.

1012
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:01,400
Thank you everyone for listening.

1013
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:05,720
I kindly invite you to share this podcast with the vegans you know.

1014
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:09,600
Let's encourage more people to take action.

1015
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:16,600
And thank you so much for caring and I will see you next Tuesday for a new episode.