1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,300 Hello everyone, my name is Ryan and you're listening to The Vegan Report. 2 00:00:05,300 --> 00:00:11,800 If you are an ethical vegan and you care to do more to end animal abuse, then this podcast 3 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:13,300 is for you. 4 00:00:13,300 --> 00:00:19,460 Every Tuesday, discover passionate, thought-provoking and inspiring vegan leaders from all walks 5 00:00:19,460 --> 00:00:23,400 of life who will inspire you to take action. 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:30,520 Salmon, shrimps and canned tuna are the most consumed seafood around the world. 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:36,760 In terms of vegan alternatives, there is a variety of mock meat options in the case of 8 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,680 beef, pigs or chickens. 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,000 But seafood seems to be the exception. 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:49,720 Good vegan seafood products are kind of rare to find, but that trend is changing for the 11 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:50,720 better. 12 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:58,420 I recently discovered a Montreal-based startup called Pi 2048, which makes actually amazing 13 00:00:58,420 --> 00:01:00,280 smoked salmon. 14 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,800 They describe their product as follows. 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:09,960 We only use high-quality, all-natural ingredients to create plant-based seafood alternatives 16 00:01:09,960 --> 00:01:13,360 that all ocean lovers can enjoy. 17 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:20,360 Our plant-based smoked salmon is made with fresh organic carrots and has only five simple 18 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,280 ingredients that you know and recognize. 19 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:32,280 To discuss this exciting initiative, I have with me the founder of Pi 2048, Archer Schiller. 20 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,120 Archer, welcome to the podcast. 21 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,480 Thank you so much for being here. 22 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:37,480 Thanks for having me, Ryan. 23 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,520 Very excited to talk about Pi 2048 with you. 24 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,220 So let's start with the list of ingredients. 25 00:01:44,220 --> 00:01:48,600 How is it possible that your product has only five ingredients? 26 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:53,080 Because I tasted the salmon and it's amazing. 27 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,560 I can't believe that this is only carrots. 28 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,080 Yeah, that's a reaction we get pretty often. 29 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,620 Actually, sometimes people after trying it, they'll sort of look at the packaging, grab 30 00:02:03,620 --> 00:02:07,520 it to see the back to see how many ingredients are on it. 31 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:13,640 You know, especially with some vegan products, you find, you know, 25 ingredients and they 32 00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:17,240 might not even be healthier than what they're trying to replicate. 33 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:22,680 But with ours, it's just organic carrots, organic extra virgin olive oil, organic apple 34 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,600 cider vinegar, sea salt, and then we smoke the carrots. 35 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:33,360 So five organic ingredients and we make a little bit of magic with them. 36 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:34,360 That's truly amazing. 37 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:39,440 I mean, it's something like the Beyond Meat product line. 38 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:45,020 You know, when you taste some Beyond Meat products, you even get the aftertaste. 39 00:02:45,020 --> 00:02:49,140 So yeah, you're really mimicking the real thing. 40 00:02:49,140 --> 00:02:55,840 So how did you discover that there was a need for this product in the market? 41 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,320 So it really started through our sister company. 42 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:05,760 We also run a sourdough bakery and we were doing the McGill Farmers Market and offering 43 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:10,040 up these gourmet toast slices on our sourdough breads. 44 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:15,080 And we wanted to make sure we had vegan options for the students. 45 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:22,880 So kind of by luck came across this idea of a carrot lox, as we called it back then, which 46 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:27,400 was just a smoked salmon alternative made from carrots. 47 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,640 And the reactions we got were pretty wild. 48 00:03:31,640 --> 00:03:37,160 A lot of people would come back and be worried that they accidentally ate salmon because 49 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,960 they thought it tasted so much like the real thing. 50 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:44,180 Some people would take it not realizing it wasn't traditional salmon. 51 00:03:44,180 --> 00:03:50,960 So seeing the reactions that we were getting there, we knew that we really had something 52 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:52,000 interesting. 53 00:03:52,000 --> 00:04:01,200 And then the more research I did into what's happening with our oceans and stumbling upon 54 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:06,640 this movement to save our oceans, that made me think this isn't just a product. 55 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:12,400 This could be a real business that's mission centric and can do some good in the world. 56 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:18,040 The kind of quality that you get from your product is what I would expect from a vegan 57 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:19,040 restaurant. 58 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,360 Do you know about Momosushi? 59 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:28,840 Yeah, I know them and I've talked to their chef Christian a bunch of times about the 60 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:29,840 different products. 61 00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:35,520 And it's great having restaurants here in Montreal that are also committed to a similar 62 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:36,520 mission. 63 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:37,520 Yeah. 64 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:38,520 So it's a restaurant in Montreal. 65 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:45,280 And the first time I went there, I did the same thing as those people you mentioned. 66 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:52,240 I started talking with the chef and sharing my concerns because this really tasted like 67 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,760 seafood and it made me worried. 68 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:02,600 You mentioned how there was social awareness around the exploitation of salmon. 69 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,360 What's happening in 2048 that we should be aware of? 70 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:07,420 Yeah. 71 00:05:07,420 --> 00:05:09,400 So it came from a study. 72 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:15,000 It's actually a Canadian study that said if we don't change our consumption habits, the 73 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,520 things could run out of fish by the year 2048. 74 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:26,480 So we took that study to inspire the name of the company and inspire our mission because 75 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,280 we're all about trying to make sure that that does not happen. 76 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:32,640 People ask me, what are you going to do in the year 2048? 77 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,880 Are you going to have to change your name? 78 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,600 If there's still fish in the sea, we're very happy. 79 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,520 And then maybe we'll claim that we've helped some part of this. 80 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:50,000 But the goal is really to raise awareness that if we do nothing and we just continue 81 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,200 down the same path that we have been, that's where we're heading. 82 00:05:54,200 --> 00:06:00,960 And we already see it with certain stocks of different fish, like the Canadian cod stock. 83 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,900 There are certain species of fish that were no longer allowed to be fished because they've 84 00:06:05,900 --> 00:06:08,560 so drastically declined in numbers. 85 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:13,720 We see it with salmon, especially with different species of salmon that have really declined 86 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,040 over the last 50 years. 87 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:21,640 So we wanted to, while doing this business, also raise awareness for that issue. 88 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:23,920 We're so mission centric. 89 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:30,920 And I think that because this brand came out of another brand, the thinking was, let's 90 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:37,000 make sure that we're not thinking about profit first and its mission first. 91 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:43,020 So we get 5% of our profits from by 2048 to organizations working towards ocean conservation. 92 00:06:43,020 --> 00:06:51,080 We offset the packaging two to one, any plastic in our packaging and ocean bound plastic, 93 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:56,640 and really trying to make sure that we create a new type of company that's more focused 94 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,600 on the positive impact than on profits. 95 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:01,600 That's amazing. 96 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,420 And I have a few stats with me. 97 00:07:05,420 --> 00:07:07,080 Let me read this. 98 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:15,240 Between 1983 and 2016, a period of just 33 years, numbers of wild Atlantic salmon prior 99 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:23,560 to any fishing taking place, known as the pre-fishery abundance, fell by more than half. 100 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:30,880 The rate of decline was most dramatic from 1983 to 1990 when salmon numbers fell from 101 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,300 around 7 million to 5 million fish. 102 00:07:34,300 --> 00:07:41,200 And while the rate of decline since 1990 has slowed, a further 33% of salmon have been 103 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:51,700 lost, meaning the number in 2016 was estimated to be around only 3.3 million. 104 00:07:51,700 --> 00:07:54,800 So yeah, it's a dramatic decline. 105 00:07:54,800 --> 00:08:05,080 And I think that just from the geography of it, salmon is in the ocean, they're so very 106 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:12,680 far away from our sight, so it's so easy to be indifferent to what is happening to sea 107 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,680 life. 108 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:25,040 Do you agree that the problem in its nature just makes it so difficult to address? 109 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:33,240 Yeah, I think that it definitely doesn't get as much attention as cattle farming or chickens 110 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:42,840 or the animals that are closer to us, maybe, especially we're based in Montreal, we're 111 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,800 not near the coast. 112 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:48,080 It's a far away problem. 113 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:55,560 And I think people also don't see seafood in the same way as they don't see them as 114 00:08:55,560 --> 00:08:57,920 animals, really. 115 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:04,560 Even there are a lot of vegetarians or pescetarian will not eat meat, but will still eat fish 116 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:06,280 and seafood. 117 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,760 So there's clearly a distinction that's being made. 118 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:16,720 And it makes it more difficult to get people to care about this issue, I find. 119 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:22,040 So that's why I think there's such a need for these plant-based seafood companies to 120 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:28,000 come along and make sure that the seafood is not being forgotten. 121 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:34,880 And I'm excited to announce that just a few days ago, we joined together with 36 plant-based 122 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:43,680 seafood companies across 14 countries, led by Marissa Bronkman, to form the first ever, 123 00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:46,680 we call it the Future Ocean Foods Association. 124 00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:52,160 And it's just a bunch of plant-based seafood companies that are trying to get together 125 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,780 and have a common purpose of saving the oceans. 126 00:09:56,780 --> 00:09:58,760 So that's very reassuring. 127 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:00,160 That's amazing. 128 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:09,760 I want to ask you questions about that initiative, but first, you're so right about your assessment 129 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,000 of the situation. 130 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:24,760 And I would add to that, I think we forget that fish have feelings, can feel pain. 131 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:34,120 And I think it's easier to have kind of a more compassionate approach toward dolphins, 132 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:35,120 whales. 133 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:42,400 There was a lot of work done in this area of animal rights. 134 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:50,860 But salmon, tuna, I mean, first of all, they're not the cutest animals out there. 135 00:10:50,860 --> 00:10:56,200 And also, we just, they're not individuals for us. 136 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:57,200 They're not. 137 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,600 It's so difficult to relate to them. 138 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:07,840 And there are so many people out there who still think that fish do not feel pain, that 139 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:15,680 they're like, what, an automaton, like a kind of robot that you can just pick up out of 140 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:20,360 the sea, maybe a plant that is more evolved. 141 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,040 So it's a crazy view. 142 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,760 And you have a lot of work on your plate. 143 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:27,760 Absolutely. 144 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:39,080 Yeah, I think I'll compare it similarly to how we are so upset that other countries are 145 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:45,560 eating dogs or other animals that we have as pets and we're really connected to. 146 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:53,440 But the way we treat cows and chickens and pigs, the things that we find it okay to eat, 147 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:59,680 how we choose between species is very arbitrary. 148 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:04,120 And it's the same thing that's going on in the ocean. 149 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:09,600 It's pretty amazing when you see some of the things that these creatures are able to do. 150 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,800 I was just watching a video the other day about this fish, that it's mating ritual is 151 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,800 to make a whole art scene at the bottom of the ocean. 152 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:25,960 And it spends hours and hours making this beautiful maze of rocks and everything. 153 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,120 And these are amazing creatures. 154 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:35,360 And we're really trying to take the pressure off of the ocean and give people a way to 155 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:42,880 get the same enjoyment out of these products, the same taste and texture as much as we can. 156 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:48,920 And even now we're launching some other products that have even more protein, more omega-3s, 157 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:54,000 trying to get all the benefits without harming the ocean and without any of the mercury or 158 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,960 microplastics or arsenic or PCBs. 159 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,640 And unfortunately, that list goes on and on. 160 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,400 Oh my gosh, that's something else about fish products. 161 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,960 They're so full of mercury and microplastics. 162 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:08,520 It's just crazy. 163 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:15,280 I don't understand how people who say they care for their health will eat fish. 164 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,240 Yeah, it's crazy. 165 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:24,800 I still believe that the Mediterranean diet is a healthy diet and healthier than most 166 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:25,800 diets. 167 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:34,680 But these days I'm thinking, yeah, but the fish aspect of it with the mercury and the 168 00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:39,560 microplastics, maybe this disqualifies the Mediterranean diet. 169 00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:41,880 Yeah, do you agree? 170 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:49,080 I think for us, we recognize that there's the reason people historically love to eat 171 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:53,720 fish and the benefits they get from fish. 172 00:13:53,720 --> 00:14:03,280 So for us, we're not so much worried about convincing people that those benefits aren't 173 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:04,280 good. 174 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:11,000 But hey, how do we give you those benefits in plant-based alternatives, when vegan alternatives? 175 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:18,120 So I think we're really looking, I agree with you that too much mercury, too much microplastics, 176 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:19,120 absolutely. 177 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:24,200 And there have been studies recently that have found a bioaccumulation of microplastics. 178 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:30,040 They found it in human lungs and it's pretty scary that that's happening. 179 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,560 And I think that because we can't see it, they're so small, we don't see it. 180 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:41,720 And obviously the seafood industry doesn't want us to talk about it or see it. 181 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:43,640 It doesn't get so much attention. 182 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:45,720 We're trying to change that. 183 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:50,760 But for us, we're really focused on how do we give you all the benefits of that without 184 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:52,560 any of the downside? 185 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:59,360 And I think that's what's one of the most interesting things about living in this time, 186 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:06,080 that we have the technology to create products that are better than what you would find in 187 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:07,520 the wild. 188 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:16,920 I think that this trend is only going to continue as why would you have steak if we can one 189 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:24,960 day 3D print something that tastes even better and has none of the cholesterol or any of 190 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:25,960 the negatives? 191 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:27,280 Same with seafood. 192 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:33,920 So it's really on the cutting edge right now, this new industry that's evolving. 193 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:39,600 And when we see some of the things that other countries and companies are starting to work 194 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,280 on, it's pretty amazing. 195 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:49,720 And it's really reassuring that we're going to find a way to convince more people that 196 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,800 there are better alternatives out there. 197 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:58,880 I read a study that said we have the equivalent of a credit card in terms of microplastic 198 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:00,160 inside our body. 199 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:06,680 So if you take all of the microplastic and gather it, you get each year you eat. 200 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:07,680 I think so. 201 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:08,680 We'll need a fact check that. 202 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:13,600 But I think that's yeah, every year. 203 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,760 Let's go back to that initiative of gathering. 204 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,040 How is it called again? 205 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:25,080 Yeah, the Future Ocean Food Association. 206 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:31,120 So you're now creating a unified front. 207 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:36,680 And do you have any concrete actions that you want to take? 208 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:43,200 Yeah, there are a lot of different initiatives that we're starting to work on. 209 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:44,200 It's very new. 210 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,400 So we're just getting all together and getting organized. 211 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:55,320 I think a lot of it is to make it easier for some of these companies to add more protein 212 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:56,800 and omega-3s. 213 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:04,240 So we're trying to share resources so that we can offer products that appeal to a wider 214 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:05,960 demographic. 215 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:13,600 For us, our mission is not to make anyone feel bad about the foods they eat. 216 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:19,720 If we're trying to reduce ocean consumption, then it's not vegans who we really are worried 217 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:20,720 about. 218 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:27,280 And the vegan community has been so supportive of us and they get the product right away. 219 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:28,280 They're excited. 220 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,640 They miss the taste of smoked salmon. 221 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:38,000 So when they see it instantly, it's like, oh, this reminds me of my childhood. 222 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,140 We've had people at our booths who they come with their families and their families have 223 00:17:42,140 --> 00:17:43,800 never tried salmon. 224 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,640 So it's a new experience for them. 225 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:51,160 And that's really cool to see also because they don't get that smoky, salty oiliness 226 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,840 anywhere else. 227 00:17:53,840 --> 00:18:04,400 But we're really trying to create these products for everyone to enjoy, not just the vegans, 228 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:09,260 but the people who are currently relying on the ocean for sustenance. 229 00:18:09,260 --> 00:18:11,400 Those are the people that we need to convince. 230 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:19,240 So I think this association is going to help us band together, make our products better 231 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:24,400 to appeal to the market, help us with our messaging so that we can already, we've had 232 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:30,200 a lot of articles written about the association. 233 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,880 So that's been great and a lot of news coverage. 234 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:40,900 And there's always some pushback from the industries that you're trying to disrupt. 235 00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:48,240 I know there have been maybe I haven't heard yet in the plant-based seafood category, but 236 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:55,760 with other companies, I know that how they label their products by calling it plant-based 237 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,800 honey or vegan honey, those things have gone pushback. 238 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:01,840 Tofurky was in a lawsuit. 239 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:06,440 I think Rossum, they're a Quebec company, I believe they were in a lawsuit about their 240 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:07,440 naming. 241 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:12,800 So having an association where we can all stick together and help out when things like 242 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:19,160 that happen, one of us is targeted, is very impactful also because a lot of us are small 243 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,520 companies that are just trying to make a good impact. 244 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,720 We're not trying to trick anyone. 245 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,920 We're just trying to put out good products that do good for the world. 246 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:38,040 And we're facing these giant industries that are trying to push us back. 247 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:44,840 This reminds me of just a school of fish against a bigger predator. 248 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,800 There's something cute about it. 249 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:48,800 I don't know. 250 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,080 Yeah, I agree. 251 00:19:53,080 --> 00:20:00,360 The first time I was able to taste Beyond Meat products was from a fast food chain called 252 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:01,360 ANW. 253 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:07,280 I don't know if they're present in the US or elsewhere in the world, but they are. 254 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:14,540 So here in Canada, they're pretty popular and in their marketing, they're heavy on offering 255 00:20:14,540 --> 00:20:16,800 red meat. 256 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:24,640 So then this was a surprise to see Beyond Meat in the middle of this business and having 257 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:31,120 this alternative in a place where you would not expect to see it. 258 00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:36,080 And they were clearly marketing their product for meat eaters. 259 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:41,840 This was not a move for vegans. 260 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:50,520 We're not trying to attract vegan consumers, although they have attracted me. 261 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:59,200 And also, if you want to get the Beyond Meat products when you go grocery shopping, you 262 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,360 often find them with real meat. 263 00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:12,800 They put them near the meat aisle or right in the meat aisle, which I hate. 264 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:20,240 That's another way of trying to get those non-vegans to be interested in the mock meat 265 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:21,240 world. 266 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:22,240 Yeah. 267 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,240 Can I ask you a question? 268 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:27,440 Why do you hate when they're side by side? 269 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:34,200 We've been looking at some of the industries that have integrated them most successfully. 270 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:35,800 I look at milk. 271 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,160 20 years ago, milk came from a cow. 272 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:45,120 Now milk comes from cows, almonds, soy, oats. 273 00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:49,480 They're all together in the aisle and you pick what your preference is. 274 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:56,400 And I know some people who are not vegan at all, but they like almond milk in their cereal 275 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:02,000 and they like oat milk in their coffee and they have regular milk otherwise. 276 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,080 So I think that's a very successful model. 277 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:12,120 But tell me why you prefer them to be separate. 278 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:19,160 It's the fact that you're faced with corpses, bloody corpses of sentient creatures when 279 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:24,520 you have to purchase for food. 280 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:33,000 We're recording this conversation before Thanksgiving week. 281 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:42,360 The thought of having the corpse of a bird on my table is not conducive to me being hungry 282 00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:51,320 or wanting to eat a meal, having a taste for the food presented in front of me. 283 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,400 I guess it's the same when I go grocery shopping. 284 00:22:55,400 --> 00:23:01,280 I'm thinking about what I'm going to make for lunch or dinner and then I'm faced with 285 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:09,480 this spectacle of animal exploitation and it's horrifying for me. 286 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:15,800 So that's why I think it's not a deal breaker. 287 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:23,000 You get desensitized, but I know some vegans who will not get near that place. 288 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,640 Also it's cold. 289 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:33,840 The meat is very cold and I don't like the cold. 290 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:34,840 It's a silly year. 291 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:40,760 No, that's very interesting because like I said, we're really trying to create products 292 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:47,240 that appeal to the mass market because that has a bigger impact for us. 293 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:55,240 So it's interesting because obviously the vegans are first adopters. 294 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,720 Like I said, they're the ones who get it right away and they love it. 295 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:06,440 But how do we get our products to other people who maybe avoid the vegan aisles because they 296 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,460 don't think there are any products there for them. 297 00:24:09,460 --> 00:24:14,760 So it's an interesting balance of that. 298 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,960 My dream is definitely one day within the seafood aisle, there's a full fridge full 299 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:27,260 of plant-based alternatives, but it's definitely interesting to hear different perspectives 300 00:24:27,260 --> 00:24:31,340 of why maybe that wouldn't be the best place. 301 00:24:31,340 --> 00:24:32,340 It's a tough choice. 302 00:24:32,340 --> 00:24:36,040 I'm not here with the right answer. 303 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:43,720 I don't know, maybe it's better to put it in the fish aisle. 304 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,920 It's a tough choice. 305 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:54,440 So we talked about how there is this social engagement dimension to your brand, to your 306 00:24:54,440 --> 00:25:02,880 company and I want to know how is that present in your life and how has been your vegan journey 307 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:03,880 so far? 308 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:14,040 Yeah, well, when we first started this company, I was like so many people like, you know, 309 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:21,040 I had heard of veganism, but it wasn't really something on my radar so much and I kind of 310 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,400 just ate whatever I ate and didn't think about it too much. 311 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:32,480 The more research that I've done and the more people I've spoken to in the vegan community, 312 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:39,520 the vegan events we go to, the more and more it had opened my eyes and forced me to really 313 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:45,880 think about the choices that I'm making with, you know, you vote with your money. 314 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:59,500 So every vote for meat or those products is a vote that maybe doesn't align with my ethics. 315 00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:06,160 So it really made me question everything and reduce and reduce and reduce my consumption. 316 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:13,120 I don't call myself vegan just because I don't like, you know, to label myself as anything 317 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:20,620 and you know, I still when we're trying to create new products, I'll try the other alternatives 318 00:26:20,620 --> 00:26:27,560 to try and figure out what do we really need to get this to do and what should this taste 319 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:28,560 like? 320 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:35,720 So I'll use that to try and really create products that are as similar as possible. 321 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:42,080 But I think it's a journey that I'm still on and I'm still, you know, like every month 322 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,680 reducing and reducing. 323 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:49,440 It's helpful that now there are so many amazing alternatives out there. 324 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,480 So I'm definitely a big believer in that. 325 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:56,560 And I think, you know, when I go to these vegan festivals, at first I was like a little 326 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,560 skeptical about some of the products and then always at the end of the festivals, we exchange 327 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:07,480 products and everyone, you know, my best recommendation is like go to a food trade show in the last 328 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:12,480 30 minutes because everyone's like trading and you can get all these products for free 329 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,040 basically. 330 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:22,520 And trying the products of some of our fellow vegan companies has really made me see like, 331 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,680 oh, that's an amazing alternative. 332 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,680 Like I'm going to start eating that from now on. 333 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:35,680 So this journey has really opened my eyes to a whole new world of food. 334 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:42,040 And I think adding constraints, you know, I love to cook, adding constraints and like 335 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:48,720 how do you make these things taste like other things or how do you, you know, make like 336 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,400 a cauliflower the most satisfying thing ever? 337 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:58,600 I think a few years ago, it would have, I would have laughed at that, but now like, 338 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,840 you know, I have an amazing recipe. 339 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,240 I'll give it to you later if you want it. 340 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:09,120 Anyone can write me at info at buy2048.com and I'll send you my cauliflower recipe. 341 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:15,240 But you know, I think seeing those things and just being open-minded has really led 342 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,680 me to changing my own consumption habits. 343 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:26,920 Yeah, I mean, I hate cauliflowers, but that's why I need your recipe because I'll make you 344 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,160 the best cauliflower, cauliflower steaks and one where you boil it and roast it. 345 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,600 It's like, yeah, I'm definitely going to do that. 346 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:44,080 And yeah, my perception of food also completely changed when I adopted a plant-based diet. 347 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:52,520 The other day I was using red beans to make something and I was looking at them and I 348 00:28:52,520 --> 00:29:02,120 found them, you know, appealing and I thought red beans, I find red beans tasty and I'm 349 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,920 you know, longing for red beans. 350 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:11,040 It's weird because before being vegan, I would not have had those feelings toward, you know, 351 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,000 legumes and yeah, yeah. 352 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,960 So this is very interesting. 353 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:26,400 So you were not vegan at all before prior to starting your product, but you were sensitive 354 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:32,360 to the vegan cause because you were thinking about vegans when having them as customers 355 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,660 with your first company. 356 00:29:36,660 --> 00:29:41,880 And that's why you made by 2048. 357 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:47,000 What was your first contact with the vegan world through your company? 358 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,560 Was it at a vegan festival? 359 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,120 Was it through talking with clients? 360 00:29:53,120 --> 00:30:00,160 I think it really started, you know, some of my friends had started to become vegan. 361 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:07,080 Because then I'd be cooking for them and make some, you know, some dishes that were vegan, 362 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:12,960 some dishes that were not vegan, try to make sure that there was at least enough to eat. 363 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:20,140 And then I think seeing the reactions at when we were doing the Miguel Farmer's Market at 364 00:30:20,140 --> 00:30:27,120 these vegan alternatives really opened my eyes to like how amazing food is, especially 365 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:33,240 like fruits and vegetables and legumes, like the things that we have on this earth that 366 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:42,400 sometimes taste like better than anything, you know, you could make from meat. 367 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:48,100 And like a lot of these are much more sustainable options. 368 00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:53,840 So really that and starting to talk to the customers that were getting the vegan options. 369 00:30:53,840 --> 00:31:00,520 And then as we launched by 2048, you know, obviously the first thought was our first 370 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,440 customers are going to be vegan customers. 371 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,440 So let's meet them and let's talk to them and let's see what they want. 372 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,360 And how do we create a product that is going to satisfy them? 373 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,280 And what did they miss about food and seafood? 374 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,460 And you know, that led us to creating these products. 375 00:31:19,460 --> 00:31:25,880 So when we now are creating new products, we'll bring them to vegan markets and test 376 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:30,440 them out first and get feedback from the vegan community. 377 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:35,480 You know, they're always going to be our core community and the ones who have supported 378 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:36,660 us so much. 379 00:31:36,660 --> 00:31:42,760 So we start by designing products that they're going to love and then, you know, try to figure 380 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,040 out how do we launch this to a wider market? 381 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:51,540 How do we get people who are not, you know, strict vegans or not vegan at all to be interested 382 00:31:51,540 --> 00:31:54,120 in a product like this? 383 00:31:54,120 --> 00:32:00,400 So just by having those conversations, the festivals, we're going to be at another vegan 384 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:08,640 Christmas market at the Maison de Fénèvres de Rêve, December 2nd and 3rd. 385 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:09,640 Yeah. 386 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,760 So that's coming up. 387 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:16,320 If you're in Montreal, come say hi, I will have a booth there. 388 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:24,440 And yeah, it's so beneficial for us to get to meet everyone and see what they like about 389 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,000 the product, what they want next. 390 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,160 And you know, that really influences our development. 391 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,040 Yeah. 392 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:43,680 I want to still stay on that vegan label because it's interesting, you know, my question would 393 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:50,780 be, what would convince you to take the extra step and become fully vegan? 394 00:32:50,780 --> 00:32:54,720 Because I think that you're going to become vegan at some point. 395 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,120 I think it's just a question of time. 396 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:03,800 I think you're on a journey and you have already eliminated a lot of animal products from your 397 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,600 diet. 398 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:12,680 And I also say that because, and that's a bit of a confession, but when I visited the 399 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:20,800 Vegan Festival of Montreal, I met a lot of incredible vegan entrepreneurs and I invited 400 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:25,460 some of them to be guests on my show and I discovered that most of them were not vegan 401 00:33:25,460 --> 00:33:27,280 at all. 402 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:36,280 And I think when they look at something like my show and how we make the arguments for 403 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:42,880 going vegan from an ethical perspective, they get shy, they get very shy and uncomfortable 404 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,380 with their position. 405 00:33:44,380 --> 00:33:50,620 And that was not your case because you accept the premise that animal exploitation is wrong 406 00:33:50,620 --> 00:33:54,600 and that we should become vegan and make that transition. 407 00:33:54,600 --> 00:34:03,280 So out of complete curiosity, what would convince you to make the complete change to a vegan 408 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:04,280 diet? 409 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:05,280 Yeah. 410 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,520 Well, first of all, I appreciate you having me on the show. 411 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:13,360 And when we were first emailing back and forth, I said to you, I just want to make sure that 412 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:18,840 you know I'm not, I wouldn't call myself a vegan entrepreneur because I'm not a pure 413 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,920 vegan. 414 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:30,440 So I think it's been very important for me not to misrepresent myself and also to say 415 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,880 like our company is open to everyone. 416 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:40,920 We don't like want to judge anyone because you know even I'm not fully vegan and we want 417 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,320 everyone. 418 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:43,320 It's a big tent. 419 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,600 You know, we want everyone in the tent. 420 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:52,760 I'm definitely on a journey and you know, I come from a family where you know I have 421 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,080 three brothers or four boys. 422 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,360 It's hard to feed four big boys. 423 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,040 You know, they need a lot of protein and both my parents work. 424 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:09,160 So trying to figure out ways to feed them without meat is maybe a lot of effort back 425 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:10,160 in the day. 426 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,800 Now it's so much easier. 427 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,800 So as you know, I moved out and started cooking for myself. 428 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:23,720 Like I think the journey began of exploring new foods and I love to travel and see what 429 00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:28,160 other people are making. 430 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:37,560 I think that unfortunately a lot of people have this ability to put their ethics aside 431 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,400 when they're shopping and try not to think about it. 432 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:46,920 You know, I'm similar like to you in the sense that when I walk by certain parts of the grocery 433 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:54,080 store like I go and sometimes they have like full cows in the freezer section and that 434 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,520 really like I have to kind of shield my eyes like it's not what I want to see. 435 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:04,200 But then you know when they put the food out in certain ways it looks less like meat you 436 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,840 know or less like what it is. 437 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:14,120 And I think that it's definitely become harder and harder for me to put that aside the more 438 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:18,400 that I know like I can't sort of claim ignorance anymore. 439 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:26,840 You know now that I know the conditions that animals are put in and even with seafood the 440 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:33,520 how bad the fish farms are for the environment and how bad conditions the fish are kept in. 441 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:40,280 So it's definitely made me pause and rethink a lot of things. 442 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,520 So I am on that that process. 443 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,800 I've been able to reduce my meat consumption like pretty significantly. 444 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:55,640 I don't eat so much red meat and when I do eat meat I try not to make it the star of 445 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:56,640 the dish. 446 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:01,720 It's just like a part of the dish and in that way like reduce and reduce and reduce. 447 00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:07,560 When I'm working on it like it's an interesting question because I do think that a lot of 448 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:15,720 people have those same ethical concerns yet are able to still eat meat. 449 00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:24,360 And I think it's just like life is difficult and time consuming and like everyone has so 450 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:30,600 much going on that and there's so much going on in the world that you don't have enough 451 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:35,840 you know capacity to really worry about everything at the same time. 452 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:44,720 So you kind of put things in boxes but given that this is my job to think about vegan foods 453 00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:49,400 it's definitely a journey that I'm on and you know I'm progressing. 454 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:56,360 Of course and one of the main reasons I wanted to get you on this show not only because your 455 00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:03,040 product is amazing and I want you to succeed but also I want you to feel welcome in the 456 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:12,480 vegan community and yeah let me maybe give you a challenge. 457 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:19,620 I don't know if you would be open to it but Mercy for Animals have the one week vegan 458 00:38:19,620 --> 00:38:26,440 challenge where you can you know you give your I think your email address or something 459 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:33,040 like that and they send you a meal plan they send you help to go through one week of being 460 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,040 vegan. 461 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,280 Would you be willing to try that? 462 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:40,400 The pledge for a one week vegan challenge? 463 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:41,400 Done. 464 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:42,400 Yes amazing. 465 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,320 I'll do you one better. 466 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:50,600 I'll even I'll make some content with all my meals and show how we can how easy it is 467 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:56,840 to stick to this because I you know a lot of my meals are completely vegan. 468 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:05,040 So yeah it's not it's just I think when you put your energy into it it's easy and it becomes 469 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:10,280 easier like anything else you have to you have to stick to it and it gets easier and 470 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,000 easier but yeah absolutely I'll do that. 471 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:15,000 Thank you Arthur. 472 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,280 I'm so happy to hear that. 473 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:24,120 Great so I'm looking forward to you doing the one week vegan challenge of Mercy for 474 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:25,120 Animals. 475 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:26,120 Amazing. 476 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:33,600 So, Arthur I want to now talk about the entrepreneurial part of your journey. 477 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:39,680 This podcast is about inspiring vegans to take action for animal rights and one key 478 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:49,200 action that you can take is basically launching your own vegan business and we talked about 479 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:57,000 why it is valuable in the first part of the show but I want to get into you know the challenge 480 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:01,120 of being an entrepreneur and launching your business. 481 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:06,120 Do you think that people are predisposed to become entrepreneur? 482 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,240 Was it the case for you? 483 00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:15,920 What attracted you to because it's one of the scariest thing you could do in your life 484 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,560 you know launch your own business take that risk. 485 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,280 I'm truly wondering you know how that happened for you. 486 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:32,240 Yeah you know unfortunately I don't think I realized how big a risk it was and how scary 487 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:35,080 and difficult it would be. 488 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:44,080 I think that if I knew then what I knew now it would maybe I wouldn't have had the courage 489 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,480 to really take the leap. 490 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:54,240 I think I was meant to be an entrepreneur and I can't see myself doing anything else. 491 00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:59,560 You know I opened my first bank account on my sixth birthday and then when I was eight 492 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:05,360 years old everyone else was trading Pokemon cards and I was selling them. 493 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:10,400 You know I think I've just always been the take that I've had these side hustles and 494 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:19,080 didn't realize that like there was a name for that and then you know it took a while 495 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:25,040 I was studying cognitive science and finance and then I sort of it kind of clicked to me 496 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:33,840 like oh I like so many different things and entrepreneurship gives me the ability to do 497 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,200 a million different things and every day is a new challenge. 498 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:45,200 So that's what I love about this you know we can have a positive impact do something 499 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:51,120 you're passionate about be your own boss it's all the benefits but it definitely don't go 500 00:41:51,120 --> 00:42:00,200 into it lately because it's a lot of hard work and I actually had a funny moment. 501 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:06,760 I was at a trade show last week and you know I pack up my booth and I have it on these 502 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:13,280 dollies and it's all like this huge thing and I'm carrying it and I'm in a freight elevator 503 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:18,840 just me and another entrepreneur and she has the same thing like all of her stuff and you 504 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:24,320 know we're carrying it we're there by ourselves and I kind of look at her and I'm like the 505 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:30,240 life we chose and she says like we could have been in corporate finance or whatever you 506 00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:36,600 know we didn't choose the easiest path but I definitely feel for me I chose the right 507 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:43,920 path but sometimes it's better not to know and to just jump into it and you know you 508 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:48,320 have something that you're passionate about and you feel like you can really dedicate 509 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:57,720 your life to that then I definitely recommend it because at least for me it was the right 510 00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:06,720 choice but a lot of hard work so yeah don't kid yourself like it'll be a lot of work and 511 00:43:06,720 --> 00:43:14,120 you know tons of ups and downs but at the end of the day you know you build something 512 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,640 so that's pretty amazing. 513 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:27,720 And you mentioned a few obstacles difficulties that you have as a vegan you know business 514 00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:34,520 where to put the product what aisle to choose in a you know while grocery shopping so what 515 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:40,080 other obstacles do you have with you know selling a vegan product? 516 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:48,480 Part one of the biggest challenges I guess that a lot of vegan companies are facing you 517 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:54,760 know and when I talk to them everyone seems to be working on the same thing is you know 518 00:43:54,760 --> 00:44:02,720 the vegan community is growing but it's still a small percentage of the you know whole market 519 00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:09,320 so it's hard to have the velocity of sales that you need because it's pretty easy to 520 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:15,040 get into stores but to stay in stores that's challenging because you have to sell and if 521 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:22,280 you're not selling then they're gonna find a product that is so definitely you know having 522 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:31,160 a vegan product is like you have a core community that's into it but to really survive you need 523 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:40,400 to find a way to advertise and get your products to a bigger market and that's been something 524 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:47,120 that we along with all these other vegan companies you know are trying to like I said the I find 525 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:52,280 the the milk alternatives have done it so well where now it doesn't matter what you 526 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:57,760 label yourself as but you're you probably have two different types of milk in your fridge 527 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:05,400 so trying to figure out ways to get the products to a bigger market and then part of that is 528 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:12,520 also what type of products we're creating because a lot of the regular market you know 529 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:19,120 the non-vegan market will look at our products and we'll say oh it doesn't have enough protein 530 00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,880 you know because they're not eating it the same way some vegans are eating but it's like 531 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:27,720 high protein cream cheese they're getting their protein from other sources so we're 532 00:45:27,720 --> 00:45:33,280 trying to create products that are like easy and have the protein have the omega-3s in 533 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:39,760 our case because that's what a lot of people look for in the traditional alternatives so 534 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:47,920 creating products that mimic the traditional products with added benefits and none of the 535 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:53,920 negatives that's really what we're going for which is tricky and still doing it while using 536 00:45:53,920 --> 00:46:00,720 natural ingredients and not any of these weird funky things makes it even harder but I think 537 00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:07,400 it's doable and you know we have a new product that we're launching first in food service 538 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:14,360 and then eventually hopefully in retail which is a smoked salmon cream cheese so we mix 539 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:19,800 our smoked salmon into the cream cheese but it also allows us to mix in some more protein 540 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:26,960 from vegan sources and some omega-3s and all that so it's just like a super easy way to 541 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:34,360 put it on a bagel and you have a delicious you know breakfast great snack whatever with 542 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:40,760 protein omega-3s you get all the benefits so that's something that we're hoping can 543 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:48,000 you know resonate more with the non-vegan market as well as the vegan market so it's 544 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:53,160 a challenge but I find the more constraints you put on yourself and on product creation 545 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:58,520 the more creative you have to be and then you end up with something even better. 546 00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:05,280 That's amazing I'm so happy to hear that you're going to launch this new product I'm looking 547 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:12,680 forward to it and your product is good I'm you know there are three seafood vegan vegan 548 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:22,720 seafood providers where I go to you know there's this Taiwanese vegan family-owned shop and 549 00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:29,920 then there is a Vietnamese restaurant vegan Vietnamese restaurant also family-owned and 550 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:38,040 both make great seafood alternatives and then there is you now so yeah I genuinely think 551 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:44,800 that your product is good but I guess like you said it's not maybe enough you need also 552 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:52,040 to market that product you need to pitch that product to distributors you need to expand 553 00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:58,160 your product line you need to put a lot of efforts to it because you know when I think 554 00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:05,320 about toffurkey or something popular in Quebec Saint-Yves they're not the best vegan products 555 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:11,480 but I think they're great at marketing what you're making and offering it also at cheap 556 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:12,480 prices. 557 00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:19,200 Yeah I think you know vegan products have some of the same challenges that every other 558 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:25,180 business has and you know trying to increase your distribution trying to increase awareness 559 00:48:25,180 --> 00:48:32,000 and sales all those things you know but we're also sometimes in aisles like we were talking 560 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:42,280 about that non-vegans don't even go down so it's definitely we need to find ways creative 561 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:48,320 ways to really get the our product out there our name out there and one of the ways is 562 00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:54,720 we're starting to do taste tests in stores and also to record some of the content at 563 00:48:54,720 --> 00:49:02,280 the taste tests so it's a way for us to both be in the stores get people walking by from 564 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:08,320 you know no matter what type of shopper they are to try the product if you've been to one 565 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:13,600 of our trade shows or test follows you see some of the reactions when people try the 566 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,760 product for the first time I think that's what really sells it when people have this 567 00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:23,200 like amazing over-the-top reaction because they did not expect it to taste that close 568 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:30,800 to smoked salmon so if we could bottle that up that would be very good for us so trying 569 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:37,040 to do things like that get creative with our marketing and really show that you know even 570 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:45,120 people who like fish find this to be a great substitute and that's been I think the most 571 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:51,680 rewarding part because you know we've seen that the vegan community loves the product 572 00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:58,880 but seeing also outside the vegan community some people who they'll take our product at 573 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,480 trade shows and they'll try it and like keep walking and they don't read the booth and 574 00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,800 don't see that it's like plant-based or anything like that they don't even recognize it or 575 00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:11,200 some people will like taste it and then like when they're walking back the second time 576 00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:17,280 they'll be like I had no idea like I thought this was a real salmon that's always like 577 00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:22,480 so reassuring that we have a good product and now it's just about you know getting it out 578 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,320 there and making sure that people know about it so if you're listening to this and you 579 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:34,480 like our product tell 20 friends because we need we need help yeah well it's available in 580 00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:45,680 Canada in Quebec we're in Quebec and Ontario now yeah and yeah growing but our US listeners 581 00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:52,560 might not be able to put their hands on on your product yet not yet but we're working on it 582 00:50:52,560 --> 00:51:00,480 especially in food service once we have our smoked salmon cream cheese I think that would do so well 583 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:08,720 in New York City so I'm pushing for that and then try to get it everywhere in food service and we 584 00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:15,920 have a lot of exciting things coming in the in the 2024 so trying to get it to as many people as 585 00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:24,720 possible great do you believe that vegan food is the future absolutely I think vegan food is the 586 00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:32,720 future like we were talking about I think that traditional dairy meat seafood are not going to 587 00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:39,760 be able to compete with these alternatives that are going to be higher in protein lowering 588 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:45,840 cholesterol like high in all the things you want low in what you don't want we can start like 589 00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:52,720 tailoring these products I think that's for sure the future and if we can do it without harming 590 00:51:52,720 --> 00:52:01,040 animals and without having such a big impact on the environment that's way better so I think it's 591 00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:07,040 definitely moving in that direction it there are definitely bumps in the road I think when the 592 00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:13,120 economy is not good people sort of retreat a little bit some of the vegan alternatives are more 593 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:20,240 expensive so they go back to you know what what's affordable we're trying to offer affordable 594 00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:27,280 plant-based seafood alternatives that are you know like the cost of the the traditional product 595 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:34,800 but I didn't see the ad that does sound a little cringy to me I think a lot of celebrities peddled 596 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:40,720 different things that you know who knows if they believe it or or not or if it's just a paycheck to 597 00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:51,360 them but definitely I don't think that's good messaging and you know our messaging is you know 598 00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:59,360 this is a product for everyone and it's yeah if you haven't tried it we hope you do 599 00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:08,160 amazing it's a it's a great message before we end this conversation archer did you have anything 600 00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:17,440 more to add follow us on instagram and tick tock at by 2048 underscore and come to the 601 00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:26,960 the pop-up vegan christmas market uh december 2nd and 3rd in montreal if you're here and send me your 602 00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:36,080 emails for the cauliflower recipe that I will do again archer thank you so much for having been a 603 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:45,040 guest on uh on on the show thank you so much for sharing your journey and yeah I I try to be a 604 00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:52,560 and yeah I I truly wish you the best with your product I think you're going to become a success 605 00:53:53,280 --> 00:54:02,320 at least I hope so and I'm looking forward to that cream solvent cheese yeah that's so great 606 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:08,960 such great news so thank you archer thanks so much oh and I should say also that in Quebec we're 607 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:15,920 available at barchetel barchet avril uh check our website for a map but we're in about 150 locations 608 00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:22,720 and starting in Ontario uh so yeah if you haven't tried us yet give us a try and let me know what 609 00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:28,080 you think thank you everyone for listening and thank you so much for being a friend of this show 610 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:35,040 as always please share this episode with your community let's inspire more people to take 611 00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:40,720 action if you're listening to this on apple podcasts please leave a five star review 612 00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:48,320 finally you can always follow me on instagram at vegan report podcast thank you again for 613 00:54:48,320 --> 00:55:05,600 listening take care and see you soon