Hello everyone, my name is Ryan and you're listening to The Vegan Report.
If you are an ethical vegan and you care to do more to end animal abuse, then this podcast
is for you.
Every Tuesday, discover passionate, thought-provoking and inspiring vegan leaders from all walks
of life who will inspire you to take action.
Salmon, shrimps and canned tuna are the most consumed seafood around the world.
In terms of vegan alternatives, there is a variety of mock meat options in the case of
beef, pigs or chickens.
But seafood seems to be the exception.
Good vegan seafood products are kind of rare to find, but that trend is changing for the
better.
I recently discovered a Montreal-based startup called Pi 2048, which makes actually amazing
smoked salmon.
They describe their product as follows.
We only use high-quality, all-natural ingredients to create plant-based seafood alternatives
that all ocean lovers can enjoy.
Our plant-based smoked salmon is made with fresh organic carrots and has only five simple
ingredients that you know and recognize.
To discuss this exciting initiative, I have with me the founder of Pi 2048, Archer Schiller.
Archer, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for being here.
Thanks for having me, Ryan.
Very excited to talk about Pi 2048 with you.
So let's start with the list of ingredients.
How is it possible that your product has only five ingredients?
Because I tasted the salmon and it's amazing.
I can't believe that this is only carrots.
Yeah, that's a reaction we get pretty often.
Actually, sometimes people after trying it, they'll sort of look at the packaging, grab
it to see the back to see how many ingredients are on it.
You know, especially with some vegan products, you find, you know, 25 ingredients and they
might not even be healthier than what they're trying to replicate.
But with ours, it's just organic carrots, organic extra virgin olive oil, organic apple
cider vinegar, sea salt, and then we smoke the carrots.
So five organic ingredients and we make a little bit of magic with them.
That's truly amazing.
I mean, it's something like the Beyond Meat product line.
You know, when you taste some Beyond Meat products, you even get the aftertaste.
So yeah, you're really mimicking the real thing.
So how did you discover that there was a need for this product in the market?
So it really started through our sister company.
We also run a sourdough bakery and we were doing the McGill Farmers Market and offering
up these gourmet toast slices on our sourdough breads.
And we wanted to make sure we had vegan options for the students.
So kind of by luck came across this idea of a carrot lox, as we called it back then, which
was just a smoked salmon alternative made from carrots.
And the reactions we got were pretty wild.
A lot of people would come back and be worried that they accidentally ate salmon because
they thought it tasted so much like the real thing.
Some people would take it not realizing it wasn't traditional salmon.
So seeing the reactions that we were getting there, we knew that we really had something
interesting.
And then the more research I did into what's happening with our oceans and stumbling upon
this movement to save our oceans, that made me think this isn't just a product.
This could be a real business that's mission centric and can do some good in the world.
The kind of quality that you get from your product is what I would expect from a vegan
restaurant.
Do you know about Momosushi?
Yeah, I know them and I've talked to their chef Christian a bunch of times about the
different products.
And it's great having restaurants here in Montreal that are also committed to a similar
mission.
Yeah.
So it's a restaurant in Montreal.
And the first time I went there, I did the same thing as those people you mentioned.
I started talking with the chef and sharing my concerns because this really tasted like
seafood and it made me worried.
You mentioned how there was social awareness around the exploitation of salmon.
What's happening in 2048 that we should be aware of?
Yeah.
So it came from a study.
It's actually a Canadian study that said if we don't change our consumption habits, the
things could run out of fish by the year 2048.
So we took that study to inspire the name of the company and inspire our mission because
we're all about trying to make sure that that does not happen.
People ask me, what are you going to do in the year 2048?
Are you going to have to change your name?
If there's still fish in the sea, we're very happy.
And then maybe we'll claim that we've helped some part of this.
But the goal is really to raise awareness that if we do nothing and we just continue
down the same path that we have been, that's where we're heading.
And we already see it with certain stocks of different fish, like the Canadian cod stock.
There are certain species of fish that were no longer allowed to be fished because they've
so drastically declined in numbers.
We see it with salmon, especially with different species of salmon that have really declined
over the last 50 years.
So we wanted to, while doing this business, also raise awareness for that issue.
We're so mission centric.
And I think that because this brand came out of another brand, the thinking was, let's
make sure that we're not thinking about profit first and its mission first.
So we get 5% of our profits from by 2048 to organizations working towards ocean conservation.
We offset the packaging two to one, any plastic in our packaging and ocean bound plastic,
and really trying to make sure that we create a new type of company that's more focused
on the positive impact than on profits.
That's amazing.
And I have a few stats with me.
Let me read this.
Between 1983 and 2016, a period of just 33 years, numbers of wild Atlantic salmon prior
to any fishing taking place, known as the pre-fishery abundance, fell by more than half.
The rate of decline was most dramatic from 1983 to 1990 when salmon numbers fell from
around 7 million to 5 million fish.
And while the rate of decline since 1990 has slowed, a further 33% of salmon have been
lost, meaning the number in 2016 was estimated to be around only 3.3 million.
So yeah, it's a dramatic decline.
And I think that just from the geography of it, salmon is in the ocean, they're so very
far away from our sight, so it's so easy to be indifferent to what is happening to sea
life.
Do you agree that the problem in its nature just makes it so difficult to address?
Yeah, I think that it definitely doesn't get as much attention as cattle farming or chickens
or the animals that are closer to us, maybe, especially we're based in Montreal, we're
not near the coast.
It's a far away problem.
And I think people also don't see seafood in the same way as they don't see them as
animals, really.
Even there are a lot of vegetarians or pescetarian will not eat meat, but will still eat fish
and seafood.
So there's clearly a distinction that's being made.
And it makes it more difficult to get people to care about this issue, I find.
So that's why I think there's such a need for these plant-based seafood companies to
come along and make sure that the seafood is not being forgotten.
And I'm excited to announce that just a few days ago, we joined together with 36 plant-based
seafood companies across 14 countries, led by Marissa Bronkman, to form the first ever,
we call it the Future Ocean Foods Association.
And it's just a bunch of plant-based seafood companies that are trying to get together
and have a common purpose of saving the oceans.
So that's very reassuring.
That's amazing.
I want to ask you questions about that initiative, but first, you're so right about your assessment
of the situation.
And I would add to that, I think we forget that fish have feelings, can feel pain.
And I think it's easier to have kind of a more compassionate approach toward dolphins,
whales.
There was a lot of work done in this area of animal rights.
But salmon, tuna, I mean, first of all, they're not the cutest animals out there.
And also, we just, they're not individuals for us.
They're not.
It's so difficult to relate to them.
And there are so many people out there who still think that fish do not feel pain, that
they're like, what, an automaton, like a kind of robot that you can just pick up out of
the sea, maybe a plant that is more evolved.
So it's a crazy view.
And you have a lot of work on your plate.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I think I'll compare it similarly to how we are so upset that other countries are
eating dogs or other animals that we have as pets and we're really connected to.
But the way we treat cows and chickens and pigs, the things that we find it okay to eat,
how we choose between species is very arbitrary.
And it's the same thing that's going on in the ocean.
It's pretty amazing when you see some of the things that these creatures are able to do.
I was just watching a video the other day about this fish, that it's mating ritual is
to make a whole art scene at the bottom of the ocean.
And it spends hours and hours making this beautiful maze of rocks and everything.
And these are amazing creatures.
And we're really trying to take the pressure off of the ocean and give people a way to
get the same enjoyment out of these products, the same taste and texture as much as we can.
And even now we're launching some other products that have even more protein, more omega-3s,
trying to get all the benefits without harming the ocean and without any of the mercury or
microplastics or arsenic or PCBs.
And unfortunately, that list goes on and on.
Oh my gosh, that's something else about fish products.
They're so full of mercury and microplastics.
It's just crazy.
I don't understand how people who say they care for their health will eat fish.
Yeah, it's crazy.
I still believe that the Mediterranean diet is a healthy diet and healthier than most
diets.
But these days I'm thinking, yeah, but the fish aspect of it with the mercury and the
microplastics, maybe this disqualifies the Mediterranean diet.
Yeah, do you agree?
I think for us, we recognize that there's the reason people historically love to eat
fish and the benefits they get from fish.
So for us, we're not so much worried about convincing people that those benefits aren't
good.
But hey, how do we give you those benefits in plant-based alternatives, when vegan alternatives?
So I think we're really looking, I agree with you that too much mercury, too much microplastics,
absolutely.
And there have been studies recently that have found a bioaccumulation of microplastics.
They found it in human lungs and it's pretty scary that that's happening.
And I think that because we can't see it, they're so small, we don't see it.
And obviously the seafood industry doesn't want us to talk about it or see it.
It doesn't get so much attention.
We're trying to change that.
But for us, we're really focused on how do we give you all the benefits of that without
any of the downside?
And I think that's what's one of the most interesting things about living in this time,
that we have the technology to create products that are better than what you would find in
the wild.
I think that this trend is only going to continue as why would you have steak if we can one
day 3D print something that tastes even better and has none of the cholesterol or any of
the negatives?
Same with seafood.
So it's really on the cutting edge right now, this new industry that's evolving.
And when we see some of the things that other countries and companies are starting to work
on, it's pretty amazing.
And it's really reassuring that we're going to find a way to convince more people that
there are better alternatives out there.
I read a study that said we have the equivalent of a credit card in terms of microplastic
inside our body.
So if you take all of the microplastic and gather it, you get each year you eat.
I think so.
We'll need a fact check that.
But I think that's yeah, every year.
Let's go back to that initiative of gathering.
How is it called again?
Yeah, the Future Ocean Food Association.
So you're now creating a unified front.
And do you have any concrete actions that you want to take?
Yeah, there are a lot of different initiatives that we're starting to work on.
It's very new.
So we're just getting all together and getting organized.
I think a lot of it is to make it easier for some of these companies to add more protein
and omega-3s.
So we're trying to share resources so that we can offer products that appeal to a wider
demographic.
For us, our mission is not to make anyone feel bad about the foods they eat.
If we're trying to reduce ocean consumption, then it's not vegans who we really are worried
about.
And the vegan community has been so supportive of us and they get the product right away.
They're excited.
They miss the taste of smoked salmon.
So when they see it instantly, it's like, oh, this reminds me of my childhood.
We've had people at our booths who they come with their families and their families have
never tried salmon.
So it's a new experience for them.
And that's really cool to see also because they don't get that smoky, salty oiliness
anywhere else.
But we're really trying to create these products for everyone to enjoy, not just the vegans,
but the people who are currently relying on the ocean for sustenance.
Those are the people that we need to convince.
So I think this association is going to help us band together, make our products better
to appeal to the market, help us with our messaging so that we can already, we've had
a lot of articles written about the association.
So that's been great and a lot of news coverage.
And there's always some pushback from the industries that you're trying to disrupt.
I know there have been maybe I haven't heard yet in the plant-based seafood category, but
with other companies, I know that how they label their products by calling it plant-based
honey or vegan honey, those things have gone pushback.
Tofurky was in a lawsuit.
I think Rossum, they're a Quebec company, I believe they were in a lawsuit about their
naming.
So having an association where we can all stick together and help out when things like
that happen, one of us is targeted, is very impactful also because a lot of us are small
companies that are just trying to make a good impact.
We're not trying to trick anyone.
We're just trying to put out good products that do good for the world.
And we're facing these giant industries that are trying to push us back.
This reminds me of just a school of fish against a bigger predator.
There's something cute about it.
I don't know.
Yeah, I agree.
The first time I was able to taste Beyond Meat products was from a fast food chain called
ANW.
I don't know if they're present in the US or elsewhere in the world, but they are.
So here in Canada, they're pretty popular and in their marketing, they're heavy on offering
red meat.
So then this was a surprise to see Beyond Meat in the middle of this business and having
this alternative in a place where you would not expect to see it.
And they were clearly marketing their product for meat eaters.
This was not a move for vegans.
We're not trying to attract vegan consumers, although they have attracted me.
And also, if you want to get the Beyond Meat products when you go grocery shopping, you
often find them with real meat.
They put them near the meat aisle or right in the meat aisle, which I hate.
That's another way of trying to get those non-vegans to be interested in the mock meat
world.
Yeah.
Can I ask you a question?
Why do you hate when they're side by side?
We've been looking at some of the industries that have integrated them most successfully.
I look at milk.
20 years ago, milk came from a cow.
Now milk comes from cows, almonds, soy, oats.
They're all together in the aisle and you pick what your preference is.
And I know some people who are not vegan at all, but they like almond milk in their cereal
and they like oat milk in their coffee and they have regular milk otherwise.
So I think that's a very successful model.
But tell me why you prefer them to be separate.
It's the fact that you're faced with corpses, bloody corpses of sentient creatures when
you have to purchase for food.
We're recording this conversation before Thanksgiving week.
The thought of having the corpse of a bird on my table is not conducive to me being hungry
or wanting to eat a meal, having a taste for the food presented in front of me.
I guess it's the same when I go grocery shopping.
I'm thinking about what I'm going to make for lunch or dinner and then I'm faced with
this spectacle of animal exploitation and it's horrifying for me.
So that's why I think it's not a deal breaker.
You get desensitized, but I know some vegans who will not get near that place.
Also it's cold.
The meat is very cold and I don't like the cold.
It's a silly year.
No, that's very interesting because like I said, we're really trying to create products
that appeal to the mass market because that has a bigger impact for us.
So it's interesting because obviously the vegans are first adopters.
Like I said, they're the ones who get it right away and they love it.
But how do we get our products to other people who maybe avoid the vegan aisles because they
don't think there are any products there for them.
So it's an interesting balance of that.
My dream is definitely one day within the seafood aisle, there's a full fridge full
of plant-based alternatives, but it's definitely interesting to hear different perspectives
of why maybe that wouldn't be the best place.
It's a tough choice.
I'm not here with the right answer.
I don't know, maybe it's better to put it in the fish aisle.
It's a tough choice.
So we talked about how there is this social engagement dimension to your brand, to your
company and I want to know how is that present in your life and how has been your vegan journey
so far?
Yeah, well, when we first started this company, I was like so many people like, you know,
I had heard of veganism, but it wasn't really something on my radar so much and I kind of
just ate whatever I ate and didn't think about it too much.
The more research that I've done and the more people I've spoken to in the vegan community,
the vegan events we go to, the more and more it had opened my eyes and forced me to really
think about the choices that I'm making with, you know, you vote with your money.
So every vote for meat or those products is a vote that maybe doesn't align with my ethics.
So it really made me question everything and reduce and reduce and reduce my consumption.
I don't call myself vegan just because I don't like, you know, to label myself as anything
and you know, I still when we're trying to create new products, I'll try the other alternatives
to try and figure out what do we really need to get this to do and what should this taste
like?
So I'll use that to try and really create products that are as similar as possible.
But I think it's a journey that I'm still on and I'm still, you know, like every month
reducing and reducing.
It's helpful that now there are so many amazing alternatives out there.
So I'm definitely a big believer in that.
And I think, you know, when I go to these vegan festivals, at first I was like a little
skeptical about some of the products and then always at the end of the festivals, we exchange
products and everyone, you know, my best recommendation is like go to a food trade show in the last
30 minutes because everyone's like trading and you can get all these products for free
basically.
And trying the products of some of our fellow vegan companies has really made me see like,
oh, that's an amazing alternative.
Like I'm going to start eating that from now on.
So this journey has really opened my eyes to a whole new world of food.
And I think adding constraints, you know, I love to cook, adding constraints and like
how do you make these things taste like other things or how do you, you know, make like
a cauliflower the most satisfying thing ever?
I think a few years ago, it would have, I would have laughed at that, but now like,
you know, I have an amazing recipe.
I'll give it to you later if you want it.
Anyone can write me at info at buy2048.com and I'll send you my cauliflower recipe.
But you know, I think seeing those things and just being open-minded has really led
me to changing my own consumption habits.
Yeah, I mean, I hate cauliflowers, but that's why I need your recipe because I'll make you
the best cauliflower, cauliflower steaks and one where you boil it and roast it.
It's like, yeah, I'm definitely going to do that.
And yeah, my perception of food also completely changed when I adopted a plant-based diet.
The other day I was using red beans to make something and I was looking at them and I
found them, you know, appealing and I thought red beans, I find red beans tasty and I'm
you know, longing for red beans.
It's weird because before being vegan, I would not have had those feelings toward, you know,
legumes and yeah, yeah.
So this is very interesting.
So you were not vegan at all before prior to starting your product, but you were sensitive
to the vegan cause because you were thinking about vegans when having them as customers
with your first company.
And that's why you made by 2048.
What was your first contact with the vegan world through your company?
Was it at a vegan festival?
Was it through talking with clients?
I think it really started, you know, some of my friends had started to become vegan.
Because then I'd be cooking for them and make some, you know, some dishes that were vegan,
some dishes that were not vegan, try to make sure that there was at least enough to eat.
And then I think seeing the reactions at when we were doing the Miguel Farmer's Market at
these vegan alternatives really opened my eyes to like how amazing food is, especially
like fruits and vegetables and legumes, like the things that we have on this earth that
sometimes taste like better than anything, you know, you could make from meat.
And like a lot of these are much more sustainable options.
So really that and starting to talk to the customers that were getting the vegan options.
And then as we launched by 2048, you know, obviously the first thought was our first
customers are going to be vegan customers.
So let's meet them and let's talk to them and let's see what they want.
And how do we create a product that is going to satisfy them?
And what did they miss about food and seafood?
And you know, that led us to creating these products.
So when we now are creating new products, we'll bring them to vegan markets and test
them out first and get feedback from the vegan community.
You know, they're always going to be our core community and the ones who have supported
us so much.
So we start by designing products that they're going to love and then, you know, try to figure
out how do we launch this to a wider market?
How do we get people who are not, you know, strict vegans or not vegan at all to be interested
in a product like this?
So just by having those conversations, the festivals, we're going to be at another vegan
Christmas market at the Maison de Fénèvres de Rêve, December 2nd and 3rd.
Yeah.
So that's coming up.
If you're in Montreal, come say hi, I will have a booth there.
And yeah, it's so beneficial for us to get to meet everyone and see what they like about
the product, what they want next.
And you know, that really influences our development.
Yeah.
I want to still stay on that vegan label because it's interesting, you know, my question would
be, what would convince you to take the extra step and become fully vegan?
Because I think that you're going to become vegan at some point.
I think it's just a question of time.
I think you're on a journey and you have already eliminated a lot of animal products from your
diet.
And I also say that because, and that's a bit of a confession, but when I visited the
Vegan Festival of Montreal, I met a lot of incredible vegan entrepreneurs and I invited
some of them to be guests on my show and I discovered that most of them were not vegan
at all.
And I think when they look at something like my show and how we make the arguments for
going vegan from an ethical perspective, they get shy, they get very shy and uncomfortable
with their position.
And that was not your case because you accept the premise that animal exploitation is wrong
and that we should become vegan and make that transition.
So out of complete curiosity, what would convince you to make the complete change to a vegan
diet?
Yeah.
Well, first of all, I appreciate you having me on the show.
And when we were first emailing back and forth, I said to you, I just want to make sure that
you know I'm not, I wouldn't call myself a vegan entrepreneur because I'm not a pure
vegan.
So I think it's been very important for me not to misrepresent myself and also to say
like our company is open to everyone.
We don't like want to judge anyone because you know even I'm not fully vegan and we want
everyone.
It's a big tent.
You know, we want everyone in the tent.
I'm definitely on a journey and you know, I come from a family where you know I have
three brothers or four boys.
It's hard to feed four big boys.
You know, they need a lot of protein and both my parents work.
So trying to figure out ways to feed them without meat is maybe a lot of effort back
in the day.
Now it's so much easier.
So as you know, I moved out and started cooking for myself.
Like I think the journey began of exploring new foods and I love to travel and see what
other people are making.
I think that unfortunately a lot of people have this ability to put their ethics aside
when they're shopping and try not to think about it.
You know, I'm similar like to you in the sense that when I walk by certain parts of the grocery
store like I go and sometimes they have like full cows in the freezer section and that
really like I have to kind of shield my eyes like it's not what I want to see.
But then you know when they put the food out in certain ways it looks less like meat you
know or less like what it is.
And I think that it's definitely become harder and harder for me to put that aside the more
that I know like I can't sort of claim ignorance anymore.
You know now that I know the conditions that animals are put in and even with seafood the
how bad the fish farms are for the environment and how bad conditions the fish are kept in.
So it's definitely made me pause and rethink a lot of things.
So I am on that that process.
I've been able to reduce my meat consumption like pretty significantly.
I don't eat so much red meat and when I do eat meat I try not to make it the star of
the dish.
It's just like a part of the dish and in that way like reduce and reduce and reduce.
When I'm working on it like it's an interesting question because I do think that a lot of
people have those same ethical concerns yet are able to still eat meat.
And I think it's just like life is difficult and time consuming and like everyone has so
much going on that and there's so much going on in the world that you don't have enough
you know capacity to really worry about everything at the same time.
So you kind of put things in boxes but given that this is my job to think about vegan foods
it's definitely a journey that I'm on and you know I'm progressing.
Of course and one of the main reasons I wanted to get you on this show not only because your
product is amazing and I want you to succeed but also I want you to feel welcome in the
vegan community and yeah let me maybe give you a challenge.
I don't know if you would be open to it but Mercy for Animals have the one week vegan
challenge where you can you know you give your I think your email address or something
like that and they send you a meal plan they send you help to go through one week of being
vegan.
Would you be willing to try that?
The pledge for a one week vegan challenge?
Done.
Yes amazing.
I'll do you one better.
I'll even I'll make some content with all my meals and show how we can how easy it is
to stick to this because I you know a lot of my meals are completely vegan.
So yeah it's not it's just I think when you put your energy into it it's easy and it becomes
easier like anything else you have to you have to stick to it and it gets easier and
easier but yeah absolutely I'll do that.
Thank you Arthur.
I'm so happy to hear that.
Great so I'm looking forward to you doing the one week vegan challenge of Mercy for
Animals.
Amazing.
So, Arthur I want to now talk about the entrepreneurial part of your journey.
This podcast is about inspiring vegans to take action for animal rights and one key
action that you can take is basically launching your own vegan business and we talked about
why it is valuable in the first part of the show but I want to get into you know the challenge
of being an entrepreneur and launching your business.
Do you think that people are predisposed to become entrepreneur?
Was it the case for you?
What attracted you to because it's one of the scariest thing you could do in your life
you know launch your own business take that risk.
I'm truly wondering you know how that happened for you.
Yeah you know unfortunately I don't think I realized how big a risk it was and how scary
and difficult it would be.
I think that if I knew then what I knew now it would maybe I wouldn't have had the courage
to really take the leap.
I think I was meant to be an entrepreneur and I can't see myself doing anything else.
You know I opened my first bank account on my sixth birthday and then when I was eight
years old everyone else was trading Pokemon cards and I was selling them.
You know I think I've just always been the take that I've had these side hustles and
didn't realize that like there was a name for that and then you know it took a while
I was studying cognitive science and finance and then I sort of it kind of clicked to me
like oh I like so many different things and entrepreneurship gives me the ability to do
a million different things and every day is a new challenge.
So that's what I love about this you know we can have a positive impact do something
you're passionate about be your own boss it's all the benefits but it definitely don't go
into it lately because it's a lot of hard work and I actually had a funny moment.
I was at a trade show last week and you know I pack up my booth and I have it on these
dollies and it's all like this huge thing and I'm carrying it and I'm in a freight elevator
just me and another entrepreneur and she has the same thing like all of her stuff and you
know we're carrying it we're there by ourselves and I kind of look at her and I'm like the
life we chose and she says like we could have been in corporate finance or whatever you
know we didn't choose the easiest path but I definitely feel for me I chose the right
path but sometimes it's better not to know and to just jump into it and you know you
have something that you're passionate about and you feel like you can really dedicate
your life to that then I definitely recommend it because at least for me it was the right
choice but a lot of hard work so yeah don't kid yourself like it'll be a lot of work and
you know tons of ups and downs but at the end of the day you know you build something
so that's pretty amazing.
And you mentioned a few obstacles difficulties that you have as a vegan you know business
where to put the product what aisle to choose in a you know while grocery shopping so what
other obstacles do you have with you know selling a vegan product?
Part one of the biggest challenges I guess that a lot of vegan companies are facing you
know and when I talk to them everyone seems to be working on the same thing is you know
the vegan community is growing but it's still a small percentage of the you know whole market
so it's hard to have the velocity of sales that you need because it's pretty easy to
get into stores but to stay in stores that's challenging because you have to sell and if
you're not selling then they're gonna find a product that is so definitely you know having
a vegan product is like you have a core community that's into it but to really survive you need
to find a way to advertise and get your products to a bigger market and that's been something
that we along with all these other vegan companies you know are trying to like I said the I find
the the milk alternatives have done it so well where now it doesn't matter what you
label yourself as but you're you probably have two different types of milk in your fridge
so trying to figure out ways to get the products to a bigger market and then part of that is
also what type of products we're creating because a lot of the regular market you know
the non-vegan market will look at our products and we'll say oh it doesn't have enough protein
you know because they're not eating it the same way some vegans are eating but it's like
high protein cream cheese they're getting their protein from other sources so we're
trying to create products that are like easy and have the protein have the omega-3s in
our case because that's what a lot of people look for in the traditional alternatives so
creating products that mimic the traditional products with added benefits and none of the
negatives that's really what we're going for which is tricky and still doing it while using
natural ingredients and not any of these weird funky things makes it even harder but I think
it's doable and you know we have a new product that we're launching first in food service
and then eventually hopefully in retail which is a smoked salmon cream cheese so we mix
our smoked salmon into the cream cheese but it also allows us to mix in some more protein
from vegan sources and some omega-3s and all that so it's just like a super easy way to
put it on a bagel and you have a delicious you know breakfast great snack whatever with
protein omega-3s you get all the benefits so that's something that we're hoping can
you know resonate more with the non-vegan market as well as the vegan market so it's
a challenge but I find the more constraints you put on yourself and on product creation
the more creative you have to be and then you end up with something even better.
That's amazing I'm so happy to hear that you're going to launch this new product I'm looking
forward to it and your product is good I'm you know there are three seafood vegan vegan
seafood providers where I go to you know there's this Taiwanese vegan family-owned shop and
then there is a Vietnamese restaurant vegan Vietnamese restaurant also family-owned and
both make great seafood alternatives and then there is you now so yeah I genuinely think
that your product is good but I guess like you said it's not maybe enough you need also
to market that product you need to pitch that product to distributors you need to expand
your product line you need to put a lot of efforts to it because you know when I think
about toffurkey or something popular in Quebec Saint-Yves they're not the best vegan products
but I think they're great at marketing what you're making and offering it also at cheap
prices.
Yeah I think you know vegan products have some of the same challenges that every other
business has and you know trying to increase your distribution trying to increase awareness
and sales all those things you know but we're also sometimes in aisles like we were talking
about that non-vegans don't even go down so it's definitely we need to find ways creative
ways to really get the our product out there our name out there and one of the ways is
we're starting to do taste tests in stores and also to record some of the content at
the taste tests so it's a way for us to both be in the stores get people walking by from
you know no matter what type of shopper they are to try the product if you've been to one
of our trade shows or test follows you see some of the reactions when people try the
product for the first time I think that's what really sells it when people have this
like amazing over-the-top reaction because they did not expect it to taste that close
to smoked salmon so if we could bottle that up that would be very good for us so trying
to do things like that get creative with our marketing and really show that you know even
people who like fish find this to be a great substitute and that's been I think the most
rewarding part because you know we've seen that the vegan community loves the product
but seeing also outside the vegan community some people who they'll take our product at
trade shows and they'll try it and like keep walking and they don't read the booth and
don't see that it's like plant-based or anything like that they don't even recognize it or
some people will like taste it and then like when they're walking back the second time
they'll be like I had no idea like I thought this was a real salmon that's always like
so reassuring that we have a good product and now it's just about you know getting it out
there and making sure that people know about it so if you're listening to this and you
like our product tell 20 friends because we need we need help yeah well it's available in
Canada in Quebec we're in Quebec and Ontario now yeah and yeah growing but our US listeners
might not be able to put their hands on on your product yet not yet but we're working on it
especially in food service once we have our smoked salmon cream cheese I think that would do so well
in New York City so I'm pushing for that and then try to get it everywhere in food service and we
have a lot of exciting things coming in the in the 2024 so trying to get it to as many people as
possible great do you believe that vegan food is the future absolutely I think vegan food is the
future like we were talking about I think that traditional dairy meat seafood are not going to
be able to compete with these alternatives that are going to be higher in protein lowering
cholesterol like high in all the things you want low in what you don't want we can start like
tailoring these products I think that's for sure the future and if we can do it without harming
animals and without having such a big impact on the environment that's way better so I think it's
definitely moving in that direction it there are definitely bumps in the road I think when the
economy is not good people sort of retreat a little bit some of the vegan alternatives are more
expensive so they go back to you know what what's affordable we're trying to offer affordable
plant-based seafood alternatives that are you know like the cost of the the traditional product
but I didn't see the ad that does sound a little cringy to me I think a lot of celebrities peddled
different things that you know who knows if they believe it or or not or if it's just a paycheck to
them but definitely I don't think that's good messaging and you know our messaging is you know
this is a product for everyone and it's yeah if you haven't tried it we hope you do
amazing it's a it's a great message before we end this conversation archer did you have anything
more to add follow us on instagram and tick tock at by 2048 underscore and come to the
the pop-up vegan christmas market uh december 2nd and 3rd in montreal if you're here and send me your
emails for the cauliflower recipe that I will do again archer thank you so much for having been a
guest on uh on on the show thank you so much for sharing your journey and yeah I I try to be a
and yeah I I truly wish you the best with your product I think you're going to become a success
at least I hope so and I'm looking forward to that cream solvent cheese yeah that's so great
such great news so thank you archer thanks so much oh and I should say also that in Quebec we're
available at barchetel barchet avril uh check our website for a map but we're in about 150 locations
and starting in Ontario uh so yeah if you haven't tried us yet give us a try and let me know what
you think thank you everyone for listening and thank you so much for being a friend of this show
as always please share this episode with your community let's inspire more people to take
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finally you can always follow me on instagram at vegan report podcast thank you again for
listening take care and see you soon