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Hello everyone, my name is Ryan and you're listening to The Vegan Report.

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If you are an ethical vegan and you care to do more to end animal abuse, then this podcast

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is for you.

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Every Tuesday discover passionate, thought-provoking and inspiring vegan leaders from all walks

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of life who will inspire you to take action.

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This week marks the official beginning of the holiday season.

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I don't know where you are but here in Canada, winter is harsh.

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Every year I look forward to the warmth of the holidays, starting with time off from

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work, but also the colorful and bright decorations of Christmas, the New Year's fireworks and

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of course all the beautiful memories you create with your loved ones.

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All of this helps tremendously with the transition from November to six months of snowy and cold

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weather.

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And as a vegan, what better way to inaugurate those celebrations than by attending the Vegan

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Christmas Market, an event held every year in Montreal and Toronto, and I find this event

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amazingly convenient.

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Are you looking for a cruelty-free Christmas gift?

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Well, your favorite vegan brands for clothing, beauty products and more will be present.

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Are you looking for ingredients to veganize the family meals, to get the famous reaction

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of this is vegan?

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The Vegan Christmas Market regroups your favorite vegan food brands, plus some vegan startups

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which new products will blow your mind.

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But most importantly, this is a great occasion to meet other vegans in a time of the year

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that can feel isolating.

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I know every time I sit at the dinner table with my extended family, the topic of my diet

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comes up.

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Then I need to explain why I'm vegan all over again and I feel like a broken record.

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To inspire you to launch your own vegan Christmas initiative in your town or on a smaller scale,

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I have none other than the founder of the Vegan Christmas Market.

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And welcome to the podcast.

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Thank you so much for being here.

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Thanks for having me.

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Can you first provide listeners who want to attend the Vegan Christmas Market with the

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dates and locations of the event?

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Our Montreal event is going to be held December 2nd and 3rd.

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That's a Saturday and Sunday.

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And then we have the following weekend, we'll be in Toronto doing the same event, but in

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Toronto.

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In Montreal, you're going to be at the House of Sustainability?

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Exactly.

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So it's held at the, they call it the Maison de développement durable.

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It's on St. Catherine Street in downtown Montreal.

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It's going to be open to the public from 10am to 6pm, both Saturday and Sunday.

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Admission is actually free, so anyone can join.

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There's going to be plenty of samples, food, lots of lots of interesting things to try

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out there.

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And what about Toronto?

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Where are you in Toronto?

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In Toronto this year, we are doing it at this place called the Lithuanian House.

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It's kind of like a venue where people organize events.

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It's a reception hall.

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So we're in the ballroom over there.

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So yeah, it's going to be December 9th and 10th, also 10am to 6pm.

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That's in Toronto.

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I think it's 1573 Blur Street in Toronto.

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Amazing.

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Thank you.

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So Anne, how did you come up with the idea of a vegan Christmas market?

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So back in 2018, I had started a vegan catering company.

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And in parallel, I also started my line of vegan sauces, Asian vegan sauces.

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And then I realized, you know, there are not a lot of events that I can present my products

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to for the vegan community.

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You know, there's the Montreal Festival, but in Montreal, other than that, there's not

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many other events.

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So I thought, you know, why not organize an event for the holiday?

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And why not make it exclusively vegan?

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So that's how it started.

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And the first one was pretty much crazy because I had that idea like very, very close to the

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holiday season.

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I basically started three weeks ahead of the event day.

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So that was like mad dash because in three weeks, I had to recruit the vendors, had to

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rent the hall, do all the logistics and everything.

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And it went pretty well.

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I mean, it was a very small event that first year, but it was a successful event.

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And I remember exactly the lady who was in charge of the venue.

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She told me, you know, next year, if you want to come back, you're more than welcome.

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But we're not going to let you do this in three weeks.

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You need to start way ahead.

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Yeah.

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So since then, I've been taking, you know, the prep work much sooner.

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But yeah, that's how it got started in 2018.

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And you know, in 2019, we actually did Montreal and Toronto and New York.

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That was somewhat crazy, crazy idea that just came out of the blue because to organize three

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events consecutively is just mad.

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And then afterwards, we had the pandemic, so we couldn't do anything in person.

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So then I kept the Montreal and Toronto virtual for those years in between that we were all

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basically locked down.

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And then last year, we came back to Montreal in person.

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I didn't do one in Toronto last year because I couldn't find a venue that was the right

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venue for us.

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But this year, we're coming back to, you know, both Montreal and Toronto in person.

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So I can't wait to see what it's going to be like.

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I'm really excited about both of your events.

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That's amazing.

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That's truly amazing.

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And is there something about Christmas that made you want to create a festival around

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that?

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Because if I had to choose like one celebration in a year to celebrate and create a festival

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around it, it would be Christmas.

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I absolutely love everything around Christmas.

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So is it the same for you?

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I do too.

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And Christmas is like, you know, it's one of my favorite holidays.

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It's so festive.

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Everybody is in a cheery mood, you know, and you kind of want to just, you know, like shop

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for gifts and try out stuff and everything.

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And unfortunately, most Christmas markets out there don't really cater to people who

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are looking for plant based products.

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So you know, it's kind of it's not it's not convenient when you go to a place and you

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have to constantly look at the you know, into the ingredients.

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And is this made out of leather?

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Is it not?

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You know, so it's not a really easy shopping experience for people who are solely looking

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for plant based products.

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So to me, it makes perfect sense to have an event that's Christmas, that's centered around

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Christmas and that's exclusively plant based.

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And also being an entrepreneur, like, from that standpoint, I just felt like it made

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sense for us to have a platform that we can just basically show what we've made, what's

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available and basically interact directly with our customers.

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You know, they get to try it, try the product, they get to discover things that they would

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not otherwise find out.

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And then we get to meet people directly.

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So we get to talk to people, we get feedback, you know, and the whole thing is just very

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energizing for both us as the creators of the other products.

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And it's also very, you know, it's a nice experience to discover new products as a consumer

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as well.

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And to me, that's like, it just made sense to have an event like that.

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And I have lots of questions about the event itself and also your company and your entrepreneurial

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journey.

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But let's take a few step backs and talk about your vegan journey.

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How did it start?

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Did you have like, some sensitivity toward animal suffering?

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Were you an animal lover before becoming vegan?

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Or were you convinced maybe by a vegan activist?

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So tell us the story of your vegan journey.

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You know, I like the fact that you used the word sensitivities because that's exactly

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how I would describe my experience.

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So I would like to say that I went vegan overnight, but I didn't, you know, and I started having

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sensitivities, like you say, very, very young, I would like, you know, I would feel like

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there's something wrong with the idea of eating meat.

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I couldn't quite understand what is wrong with it, or I couldn't, I didn't really know

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what other alternatives there were.

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You know, I had a friend who was vegetarian, but she never really spoke about why she was.

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And I kind of had a sense that, you know, maybe it's not quite right that we kill animals

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and stuff like that.

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And I remember in my teen years, at one point, I saw this news report on the news about this

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serial killer.

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You know, it was a really like, like a sort of like a crime kind of story.

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And I was really impacted by that because I thought this is so horrible, you know, what

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that person did.

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Basically it was a serial killer who I think was like eating his victims or something like

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that.

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And I was thinking, wait, I'm so disturbed by that story.

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But then we humans also eat other living beings.

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So how is that different?

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You know, like I started asking myself that and I'm like, okay, the guy ate other people.

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So I'm really disturbed by that.

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But then here I am eating cows and pigs and, you know, fish and all that.

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Like what is the difference?

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Where is it?

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Where do we draw the line?

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What's right and what's wrong?

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You know, so I felt really uncomfortable with that sort of moral dilemma.

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And I try for a very long time to justify it by saying, you know, well, you know, I'm

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not eating other humans, right?

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I'm just eating animals and everybody's doing it.

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So it's okay, I guess, you know.

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I kind of stuck down, you know, the little voice in me that says, you know, there's something

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wrong about this, you know.

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And then for many, many years, I would just leave that and leave that in the back of my

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mind.

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And then I think when Facebook started, at one point, I was just scrolling Facebook and

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then I kept seeing these videos that would say something like, oh, you know, here are

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the sounds of a slaughterhouse or something like that.

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And I would never ever click on any of those videos.

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I would always basically scroll really fast so I wouldn't have to, you know, watch it

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or whatever or hear anything from it.

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And then I'm like, wait a minute, you know, like if I'm so terrified by this video, I

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don't even want to hear it.

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But then why am I participating in it?

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You know, like it didn't make sense to try to avoid it to the degree of not wanting to

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even watch it, but then to actively participate in, you know, making that happen.

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So you know, the discomfort just grew in me more and more and I knew that at one point

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I started to think, okay, you know what, how about how about I just eat organic meats only?

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Maybe that way, at least the animals will be, you know, like at least living a happy life

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before they get slaughtered, right?

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So I kind of told myself that story.

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I convinced myself of that story.

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And for a while, for several years, I was just eating organic meats, basically.

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But I think my moral conflict caught up with me because I was thinking, okay, this is still

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not, you know, it doesn't make sense really, because we still have to kill the animal in

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the end.

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So the fact that they lived a better life or a healthier life or a more free or freer

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life before they get slaughtered, it doesn't really, you know, like address the issue of

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them being killed.

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So then I thought, okay, let's just eat just fish only.

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So for a while it was just, okay, so it was no more pork, no more beef.

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Baby steps.

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Yeah, so just fish, you know, I'm thinking like, you know what, they're living freely

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in the ocean.

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And maybe when we fish them out, it's just really, really a quick death.

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That's what I told myself.

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That's obviously not what happens.

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But I told myself that and I made myself believe that.

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So for a while I was eating only fish.

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And then eventually again, you know, my moral conflict caught up with me again.

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And I'm like, okay, this doesn't make sense.

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And so I got to do something about it.

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And I just like basically said, okay, that's enough.

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No more, no more fish, no more pork, no more beef.

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The other stuff like, you know, wearing leather, I was never into that anyway.

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So I started out way before I even started any of the, you know, stopped eating meat

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and all that stuff.

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So to me, it wasn't, it wasn't a transition in terms of other products, but food, it took

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quite some time for me to transition.

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But yeah, eventually I did.

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So it was, I think it was roughly 2017 that I just stopped all, all meat, all animal products,

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basically.

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I want to go back to what you said about eating meat is comparable to eating other human beings

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to cannibalism.

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This is the first time I'm hearing that, but this is a thought I had because it feels that

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way.

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It feels like cannibalism.

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Like you wake up and you discover that everyone is being a cannibal or, or something.

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Yeah, it's pretty, it's an intense feeling.

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And also you mentioned a serial killer.

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It's crazy how most psychopaths and serial killers start, you know, torturing animals

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first.

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You know, they start abusing animals and then they go to humans.

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So you're right that the line between human and animal is just, it's pretty arbitrary.

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It's completely arbitrary.

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You know, it's a, it's a societal norm that we've just arbitrarily established that it's

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okay to eat animals, non-human animals, but it's not okay to eat humans.

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Right?

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I mean, that's completely arbitrary and that's cultural.

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But no, we've been, we've been that way for thousands and thousands of years and I can

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understand why most people don't see it that way because it's so ingrained in our mentality.

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And you know, people around me are still eating meat and I kind of, kind of just glaze over

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the whole thing and just kind of see it as part of the landscape.

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But yeah, if you were to really look at it, it doesn't make sense.

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You know, why do we draw that line there?

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It's completely arbitrary, especially when there's no real need for it.

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I mean, I get that, I get that if you were like stranded in an island and you know, you've

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had absolutely nothing else to eat and it's just you and a pig.

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Okay.

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But really how much, how many of us are really in that situation every day, you know, like

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practically no one.

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Right?

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So, I mean, it's really, it's an arbitrary moral line that we've drawn there.

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So yeah, it just didn't make sense.

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And the comparison to serial killer, I mean, it's drastic and I get that most people will

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find that very uncomfortable and maybe they even think that that's completely nonsensical.

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But really, I mean, if we really think about it, there is no difference except for what

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we've decided is okay and what's not.

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I agree.

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So you decide to transition to a vegan lifestyle and I use the word lifestyle because it's

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diet plus the rest.

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And I mentioned how many vegans feel isolated during Christmas.

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What was the reaction of your family and your community and your circle of friends when

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you decided to make that radical decision?

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I also use the word radical because it is radical.

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I mean, you're going against societal norms, against cultural norms, but I would not use

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the word extreme to describe what is extreme is factory farming.

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But yeah, so how did they react?

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I would say that in my case, I was lucky in that my family are mostly supportive.

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I mean, they are supportive.

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I mean, of course, initially, my mom would have concerns about are you having enough

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vitamins?

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Are you eating enough proteins?

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Typical concerns, which didn't bother me.

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I knew that I was coming from a place of care.

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But obviously, once I reassured her that was okay in terms of all the nutrients and everything,

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it never became a subject.

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But I know that for a fact that many of my friends who are vegan, they encounter those

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situations with family that can be really, really difficult, having to bring your own

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meals to a family meal or having difficulty gathering people around because other people

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find your diet very restrictive and they don't like it and they pass comments about it and

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things like that.

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But in my case, it was rather a smooth transition.

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So I find that I was lucky in that sense.

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But there were the occasional comments like, oh, why don't you just try it just one time?

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It doesn't matter.

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Just one piece of cake.

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It has a little bit of eggs, but whatever.

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There'll be occasional comments like that.

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But I don't let it get to me too much because I also know that it's quite a shift to make

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to say that you're not going to switch completely over to ingredients or things that are not

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animal based and just to change your life around completely.

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So I get that most people will find that to be quite a shift.

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So I just roll with the punches, I guess.

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But yeah, in my case, I think it was just luck, I guess, that I have supported people

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around me.

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But in terms of friendship, I think I might have lost a few friends because we just don't

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go out anymore because it made it difficult to pick restaurants and stuff like that.

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But you get over it.

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Make other friends.

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Make newer friends.

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It's part of life, I guess, when you change, people change too.

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Yeah, vegans are pretty resilient.

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It's admirable.

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Okay, so you are vegan, but then you take it a step further.

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So some vegan decide to go into activism.

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You chose entrepreneurship.

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What made you take that extra step?

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I have nothing but utter utmost respect and admiration for activists, people who actually

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go out there and do the cubes of truth or people who protest and things like that.

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But it's just not part of my personality.

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I wish I would have the audacity to do that kind of stuff, but it's just not part of me.

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So my way of contributing to creating awareness for other people was basically to start a

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business that would offer products that's an alternative, that's a plant-based alternative.

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So in a way, it's kind of my form of activism, one that's more aligned with my personality.

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That's how I see it.

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It was never about, let's try to make as much money as we can.

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That was never the goal to begin with, but obviously it's a business, so obviously you

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want to make it sustainable.

315
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But at the very start, it was basically my idea of doing my form of activism that got

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me started in creating plant-based products.

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Initially I couldn't find any plant-based Asian food around a lot.

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So then I started a catering company that did basically only vegan Asian menu.

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And it just went on from there.

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And I'm so glad to hear you say that because this whole podcast, the idea behind it is

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to encourage people to take action, to be more than just vegan.

322
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And it can take many forms.

323
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It doesn't have to be the activist way of doing it.

324
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I mean, I relate to you.

325
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I'm not the kind of person who goes in a protest or something like that.

326
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I'm an introvert.

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I prefer doing this podcast, putting some distance between me and people and the crowds.

328
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But yeah, I completely get it.

329
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:36,000
So you mentioned launching the vegan Christmas market in New York.

330
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Is your product line available in the US or is it just in Canada?

331
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,320
My product line is actually not available in the US.

332
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But back when I did it in New York, I actually had a, well, I still have it.

333
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I also have a line of vegan outerwear.

334
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,680
So that is available in the US.

335
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So that when I started the vegan Christmas market in New York, it was also to promote

336
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my vegan outerwear line.

337
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,600
But yeah, but the sauces are not yet available in the US.

338
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:16,480
So mention your two companies and how do people can get in touch to purchase your product?

339
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,520
So for my vegan outerwear, it's mostly sold online.

340
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The website is boidaouterwear.com.

341
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And then my sauces, they're going to be sold.

342
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They are already sold in a few grocery stores in and around Montreal.

343
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Actually, there are some outside of Montreal as well in Quebec City and Trois Rivieres

344
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and all that.

345
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But yeah, so my sauce, my food products are in grocery stores and my outerwear line is

346
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online.

347
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And the idea behind boida outerwear, boida is actually a word that sounds, well, the

348
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:56,000
Korean word that sounds like boida actually means to be visible.

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And when I created that line, I had the idea that I wanted the plight of animals, their

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suffering to be visible to the world.

351
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So that's why I call the line boida outerwear.

352
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And our coats are basically, they're made out of, so there's no duvet, obviously, because

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that's what most winter coats are insulated with.

354
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And that is the really cruel industry that basically uses duck feathers.

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And the ducks condition are really, really horrible.

356
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They get plucked, sometimes live plucked.

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So yeah, so my alternative insulation material is basically part corn fibers.

358
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And the line, it's actually called Vega goose, which is a little bit of a wink for Canada

359
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goose.

360
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:47,360
But yeah, so that's my line of outerwear.

361
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Amazing.

362
00:22:48,540 --> 00:22:55,000
And I put links in the description for people who want to explore and see it.

363
00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:01,720
I think in the vegan Montreal scene, you're pretty well known.

364
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:10,760
People have tasted your products or tested your products from the vegan festival of Montreal

365
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:18,200
or just from visiting your favorite vegan shop or health shop.

366
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:29,000
And I know that the logo of your food company is an image of the Buddha.

367
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And I would like to know if there is a link with Buddhism or Eastern philosophy.

368
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:43,000
Well, I mean, it's very, you've got a good eye because a lot of people don't even notice

369
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that it's the shadow, the silhouette of a Buddha.

370
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,320
But yes, I was raised, I'm of Vietnamese origin.

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So my family raised me, the religion and the family was Buddhism.

372
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Obviously we're not fully, fully practicant.

373
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We don't go to the temple every week or anything like that, just as most people don't.

374
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But the philosophy of Buddhism has always been something that really is important to

375
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,400
me.

376
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The idea of not harming others, the idea of karma, the idea that we're all living beings

377
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that are equal on this planet.

378
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,360
So those ideas have always struck a chord in me.

379
00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:34,920
So when I created that logo, it just made sense to use something that was related to

380
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that.

381
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,880
So yeah, that's where the silhouette of the Buddha is.

382
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,600
He was sitting under a Bodhi tree.

383
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,480
Bodhi tree is the tree of awareness.

384
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I don't know how much you know about the story of the Buddha, but he basically sat and meditated

385
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under that tree.

386
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And after a certain amount of time, he reached enlightenment.

387
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:55,840
And Bodhi means to be enlightened.

388
00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:02,340
To me, I kind of see my journey towards veganism as a bit of an eye opening experience for myself.

389
00:25:02,340 --> 00:25:06,600
So in that way, I feel like I was, you know, I don't want to say I'm enlightened.

390
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,220
I'm in no way or shape enlightened.

391
00:25:09,220 --> 00:25:13,040
But what I'm trying to say is that, you know, I had an experience where I was, you know,

392
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my eyes were open to the reality of the animals suffering.

393
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,840
So in that sense, it is an awakening.

394
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:25,240
So yeah, that's why I use the Bodhi tree and the silhouette of the Buddha there.

395
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:26,760
I'm actually a Buddhist.

396
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:38,720
So I think that's why I was aware of the, you know, that discrete silhouette.

397
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:46,000
And yeah, there is something to be said about the influence of Buddhism on the Asian diet.

398
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:52,280
I mean, everywhere where Buddhism was established, you have some vegan options and great vegan

399
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,200
options.

400
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,200
Almost everywhere.

401
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,320
The exception is Japan.

402
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:04,200
But yeah, and it's wonderful to see that positive impact of that spirituality.

403
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:10,960
Yeah, I mean, like when I traveled a few years ago to South Korea, they have restaurants

404
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,480
that are owned by monks and they serve nothing but vegan food, basically.

405
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,280
Unfortunately, we don't have that in Montreal.

406
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,440
But you know, some of the temples, they serve meals and they're always basically vegan

407
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:23,440
meals.

408
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:29,760
So yeah, I mean, vegetarianism and veganism are both very important in Buddhism.

409
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:34,800
So the people who practice Buddhism don't normally adhere to that diet, but the monks,

410
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:35,800
they usually do.

411
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,920
Yeah, so me, it just made sense to use that logo, you know.

412
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,040
And like to me, it's just, I don't know.

413
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:48,960
I always feel like at some point in the future, down history, we're going to look back how

414
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,080
we used to be and see how we've treated animals.

415
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:59,160
And we're going to be pretty much horrified by what we've done, you know.

416
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,640
So it's just, to me, it's probably just a matter of time before most people will be

417
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,120
awakened to that reality.

418
00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:10,280
It may take quite a bit of time, but I think eventually we will get there.

419
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,880
Especially when you look at, you know, with the advent of AI and everything, there is

420
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,320
a question now being raised, you know, like, what's the ethical treatment of an AI if it

421
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,120
becomes conscious, right?

422
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:24,680
So we're just kind of gearing towards that question of what's ethical treatment of something

423
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,840
that's conscious and what's not.

424
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,280
Well, the parallel is can very easily be drawn with animals there, right?

425
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:35,600
I mean, if an AI is conscious and we're like thinking, is it okay to turn it off?

426
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,480
You know, the connection between that and a conscious animal is not very far.

427
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,360
We should ask the same question when it comes to animals.

428
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:47,380
Is it okay to, you know, use them, exploit them for our own benefit?

429
00:27:47,380 --> 00:27:52,040
To me, it's just a parallel that's going to be drawn pretty soon, you know.

430
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:59,160
And also to take it further, what kind of views and judgment would that AI have on upon

431
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,960
us looking at our immoral actions?

432
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:12,440
I mean, we often, you know, we have this fear of aliens or AI invading the earth, taking

433
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:13,800
over.

434
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,180
And sometimes I think maybe that would be great.

435
00:28:17,180 --> 00:28:29,200
Maybe they would be more moral and ethical in the ways of having power and being in charge.

436
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,680
I mean, when we think of AI, I mean, a lot of times we're thinking now, okay, they're

437
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:37,080
like basically learning everything that we are and our values based on what's out there

438
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,340
on the internet, right?

439
00:28:38,340 --> 00:28:39,560
And how we've been living.

440
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,440
Well, what do you think they're going to see as our values if they see that all we've been

441
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:48,840
doing so far is exploiting, you know, murdering animals, raping them and doing all that.

442
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,180
What are they learning from us basically?

443
00:28:51,180 --> 00:28:55,680
They're basically having the impression that we are these barbaric creatures that do all

444
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,920
these horrible things.

445
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,240
This is not a model we want to be projecting to them.

446
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:02,720
To me, it's like a parent, right?

447
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,560
I mean, you're a parent to a child and they're learning from you.

448
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,160
You don't want to be exhibiting all these horrendous behaviors.

449
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,200
And that's basically what's happening right now.

450
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,800
They're kind of observing everything that we're doing now.

451
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,000
And to me, it's kind of urgent that we get our act together.

452
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:24,360
And, you know, I don't know, it's just to me, it will a little bit in trouble here because

453
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,560
it's difficult to establish an ethical line for them.

454
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,640
But then they're watch everything that we're doing and nothing corresponds to what we're

455
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:31,640
telling them to do.

456
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:32,640
You know?

457
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,320
So, yeah, it's something we should really think about.

458
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:36,680
There is that you're right.

459
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:42,800
There's this bias that could be integrated in those AI.

460
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:48,320
But I was more thinking about how AI could be this supreme intelligence.

461
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:53,460
And if you're intelligent, you must be moral in a way.

462
00:29:53,460 --> 00:30:00,720
You must take the moral way because it's just not smart to behave that way toward animals,

463
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,440
toward our planet and so on.

464
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:03,800
Yeah, no, you're right.

465
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:09,200
I think that once they realize what we've been doing, they'll probably think, okay,

466
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,120
well, away they go.

467
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:16,680
Let's turn them on to paper clips because they're just completely useless.

468
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,320
I mean, they're wrecking the planet.

469
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,240
They're killing all the animals for no reason.

470
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:25,240
Off with them.

471
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,360
We can run this world much better than they do.

472
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,200
Yeah, much more compassionately.

473
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,200
Yeah.

474
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,200
Yeah.

475
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,200
Exactly.

476
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:42,360
But, you know, I also want to have compassion toward, you know, people who just are victim

477
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,080
of their conditioning because that's most people who eat animals or participate in the

478
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,960
exploitation of animals.

479
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:55,600
I feel like it's just their conditioning and they're like, you know, just stretching the

480
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,100
analogy here.

481
00:30:57,100 --> 00:31:00,240
They have been programmed to behave this way.

482
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,240
So yeah.

483
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:06,200
I mean, I don't see it as us and them kind of thing.

484
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,200
You know, a lot of vegans against non-vegans.

485
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,040
It's not like that at all.

486
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:16,980
And I don't think it should ever be seen that way because that doesn't really help anything.

487
00:31:16,980 --> 00:31:21,680
It really is a matter of creating awareness and educating people.

488
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,920
You know, you don't know what you don't know, right?

489
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:29,600
So it just really is, you know, trying to get the information out there and just basically

490
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,040
opening eyes more and more.

491
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,720
So yeah, I never want to see it as us versus them.

492
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:40,760
And that just never helps in any social causes really.

493
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,200
I absolutely agree.

494
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:43,200
Yeah.

495
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:44,200
And we were them.

496
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,720
I mean, yeah, we were, there's no them really.

497
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,400
It's just us with different views, right?

498
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:49,720
It's all of us with different views.

499
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,520
There isn't, there's never really us versus them.

500
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,640
You know, we all have different preferences and you know, some of them make more sense

501
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,060
ethically and some of them don't.

502
00:32:00,060 --> 00:32:02,160
And it's just important to discuss these things.

503
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:07,200
And hopefully we come to a more, you know, compassionate way of dealing with things,

504
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,800
but it's never us versus them.

505
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,760
And you know, they say, you know, like what, I can't remember who was it that said like

506
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,040
the line between good and evil lies in the heart of every man.

507
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:22,400
I mean, like basically we're all, you know, have that line between what's ethical and

508
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,360
what's not, you know, it's just what, where you choose to go, right?

509
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,960
And sometimes it's just a lack of information, you know, and sometimes it's just cultural

510
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,880
with you've been raised that way forever.

511
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,520
So you know, that's, that's the only way to think about things.

512
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,840
It's not, yeah, there's no, there's no divide there between us and them.

513
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:40,840
There is no them.

514
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,240
It's just us all, you know.

515
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:44,240
Yeah.

516
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:56,140
So you're pretty familiar with the, the entrepreneurial community in, in the vegan world.

517
00:32:56,140 --> 00:32:58,600
What is your sense of the future?

518
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:04,640
I feel like you're pretty optimistic about the future, but do you think that we're winning

519
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:14,200
in this economical competition to get consumers more interested in vegan products and vegan

520
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,080
alternatives to everything?

521
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:25,040
I find that it's a very slow progress and it feels like it's an uphill battle.

522
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,200
When you look at the numbers, because, you know, even though when I'm doing the market,

523
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,520
I realize how there were, you have so many vendors, you know, everyone and their neighbor

524
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,600
basically has some sort of vegan product line out there, right?

525
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,200
That's what, that's the feeling that I get.

526
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:44,640
But then once you go out of that, you know, the world, you realize the amount of consumers

527
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,920
that are vegan are still less than 3% in Canada.

528
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,880
And I think that's about the average elsewhere too.

529
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,240
So you know, it does feel like an uphill battle, but I think it's, it's, you know, it's, it's

530
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,080
moving forward for sure.

531
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,040
So I'm positive and optimistic about that.

532
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,760
But you know, like from the standpoint of companies, I see so many companies are plant

533
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,240
based, even the non plant based companies are coming out with, you know, plant based

534
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,240
products and all of that, even during the market this year, you know, I have quite a

535
00:34:10,240 --> 00:34:16,640
few vendors that sell a mix of products, but then they have a line that's exclusively vegan,

536
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,380
you know, because they realize that there's a market for it.

537
00:34:19,380 --> 00:34:21,360
So that's very encouraging.

538
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,880
But overall, you know, there's still a long way to go before it becomes like generalized

539
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,360
in the public.

540
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,720
Kind of like, I can't remember, what was it like that line where it becomes, it goes from

541
00:34:33,720 --> 00:34:38,640
just being the early adopters to, you know, being something that's more of interest to

542
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:39,640
everybody.

543
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,480
We're still a little bit far away from there.

544
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:46,520
You know, we need to reach like something like 15%, I believe, to cross that line.

545
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,320
We're still quite low in that, in that percentage, I think.

546
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,400
So there's a lot of work to do still.

547
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:58,880
Well, at my last visit of the Vegan Festival of Montreal, I invited a few entrepreneurs

548
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:06,320
I connected with to appear on the podcast and talk about their vegan products.

549
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,760
And some of them will be featured in the future on this show.

550
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:19,360
And I was surprised to see how many vegan entrepreneurs for vegan products were not

551
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,200
vegan.

552
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:31,640
And that this was like more of a entrepreneurial activity than a vegan, you know, like you,

553
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:36,640
like there is an ethical, ethical dimension and social responsibility to what they're

554
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,440
doing.

555
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:44,280
And they felt pretty shy to appear on this show, because then, you know, they look at

556
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:50,320
the episodes and I'm mostly representing the ethical argument for veganism.

557
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,000
And I understand them.

558
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,600
And I still wish for their success.

559
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,000
And I'm glad that they exist.

560
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,920
But what do you make of that phenomenon?

561
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,640
A part of me feels a little bit conflicted, because I always want to promote, you know,

562
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,080
veganism in all of its dimensions.

563
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:14,240
So obviously, I want to feature vendors that are 100% vegan, their whole lines of products

564
00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:16,440
are vegan, and they themselves are vegan.

565
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,560
That's in an ideal world.

566
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,240
But then we don't live in an ideal world.

567
00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:25,000
And I kind of want to encourage those people who are not vegans to kind of, you know, get

568
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,120
into our world and see what it's like.

569
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:35,040
And to me, that's probably a good way of convincing them, you know, to maybe switch over to veganism.

570
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:40,320
So that's what so even though I have conflicted feelings about that, I kind of just, you know,

571
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,600
I encourage it really.

572
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,080
So you know, we do have some vendors that I know are not vegan.

573
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,120
And I know their other products in their stores are not vegan.

574
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,960
But you know, if they have an interest in, in joining the market, and to really understand

575
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,320
that this is a market that's centered not around environmental issue, we're not trying

576
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:03,520
to be environmentalists here, we're really centered around the ethics of, you know, animals.

577
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:08,560
So as long as we have that understanding, then, you know, to me, it's just, it's just

578
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,640
fine that we're all in this project together.

579
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:12,640
And yeah,

580
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:13,640
I agree.

581
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:21,320
And that's the approach I decided to adopt, you know, I want to be welcoming and supportive.

582
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,400
And with the hope that one day they will make that transition happen.

583
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,680
Yeah, yeah.

584
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:32,080
Because it doesn't really make sense to like sort of being exclusive in the sense that

585
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,480
we'll be like, no, you know, if you're not vegan, you can't join this market, you know,

586
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:40,960
that's just, you know, that's excluding people, that's not going to encourage anybody to try

587
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,680
veganism, you know, that certainly does the opposite, I think.

588
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,240
So if we're going to shoot ourselves in the feet, then, you know, shouldn't do that.

589
00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:50,240
So to me, it just makes sense to be more open.

590
00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:53,160
But of course, we always have to make it clear, like I tell people, you know, you can show

591
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,680
up at the market, you can do sell your products.

592
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,040
But then I give rules, you know, I'll be like, you know, I don't care what you eat, but at

593
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,480
the market, you cannot be eating, you know, piece of chicken, like as visitors pass by,

594
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:09,000
you know, for lunch, like it wouldn't, it's not part of our, it's not part of our branding,

595
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,080
but it's also not part of our values, you know, so you know, you cannot have a animal

596
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:18,560
based meal during the event in, you know, in front of other visitors.

597
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,680
You also cannot wear, you know, I mean, I don't say cannot, but I say you're not, you're

598
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:28,480
encouraged to not wear stuff that's, you know, visibly made of animal skin or something,

599
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,720
or say, walking in with a Canada goose coat, you know, when you're a vendor, there is a

600
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:36,280
little bit, you know, a sensitive issue, you know, I've had told people, you know, like,

601
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:40,320
I don't care what you wear outside of this, but you know, at the event we have to represent

602
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:45,440
the values of the market and I would like it, nobody did these things, you know, so

603
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:50,560
I mean, I have rules like that, but yeah, mostly people just, you know, they understand,

604
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:51,560
so yeah.

605
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:56,640
And I mean, it's just being a good entrepreneur, you need to understand your clientele.

606
00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:04,320
I mean, yes, you're not, you should not be putting a coat made of feathers to talk with

607
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:09,000
vegans about your vegan liner products.

608
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,000
Yeah.

609
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:15,120
I mean, I know that several years ago, I made a mistake of not pointing that out and there

610
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,520
were a few people who walk, a few vendors who walked in with the Canada goose coats

611
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,480
and right away I had comments from some of our volunteers that were pointing out to me,

612
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,520
they were like, oh, they're wearing a Canada goose and they made an issue out of it and

613
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,360
I thought, okay, we can't have this, you know, so then the following year it was part of

614
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:31,440
our regulations.

615
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,560
You cannot wear stuff that's, you know, like, so obviously you made out of, you know, like

616
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,640
animal, you know, ingredients or something like that.

617
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,000
And, you know, people understand it.

618
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,520
I mean, if they don't like it, they don't have to participate, right?

619
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:48,440
I mean, this is our event and there's, there's a branding, you know, involved here.

620
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,200
So it's a, it just makes sense that people just, you know, respect that.

621
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,600
I think no matter where they stand on the issue of animals.

622
00:39:55,600 --> 00:40:05,840
Well, since we are on the topic of the logistic of the event, how did you launch the first

623
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:10,000
couple of editions of the festival?

624
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,240
Where did you find your funding?

625
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:18,520
How did you manage to mobilize people around the event?

626
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:24,080
You know, on the logistic side, how, what was your experience and the lessons that you

627
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,960
drew from that?

628
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:34,640
I basically jumped out of the plane and just hoped I would fly.

629
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,760
Yeah, that's basically my approach.

630
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,640
Initially, I'm like, I want to do this.

631
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,880
I have three weeks to do this and I'm just going to like, you know, start recruiting

632
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:48,080
vendors and I'm going to, you know, advance the money to book the hall and it is what

633
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:49,080
it is.

634
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,880
And, you know, and luckily it worked out and logistics wise, it was kind of crazy.

635
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:57,760
And I did all the, you know, the, the, the promo, like the advertising myself on Facebook

636
00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:59,600
and all of that.

637
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:04,160
Now I luckily, since the past two years, I have the support of our social media team,

638
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,160
but before that I used to do everything myself.

639
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:07,160
So it was kind of crazy.

640
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:12,360
But yeah, everything was basically like a gorilla style, you know, like let's just do

641
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,240
it, you know, white knuckle and let's just do it and get it done.

642
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:20,200
You know, that was my approach and luckily it worked out basically.

643
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,200
Yeah.

644
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,520
So it was a lot of luck, I think, and, and the vegan community in Montreal is very supportive,

645
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:26,520
I find.

646
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,440
So when you organize events that they know the reason behind it, you know, and they know

647
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,880
that you're making an effort, people are very supportive in Montreal.

648
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:40,960
Amazing and you have my full respect for trying this.

649
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:45,360
I think I might have gained a few white hair because of these events that I've organized,

650
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,200
but it's all right.

651
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,680
Talk for a good cause.

652
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:51,680
Well are you a volunteer?

653
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,520
Are you doing this, you know, as a volunteer?

654
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:01,480
Well, I mean, practically, yeah, because if I were to divide the amount of money that

655
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:06,760
we make versus the amount of hours, I probably making like, you know, like less than like

656
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:11,440
maybe something in the third world country kit would make, I don't know, like something

657
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:12,440
like ridiculous.

658
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,280
I don't even want to, like, I don't even want to do that calculation because it would just

659
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,640
be so discouraging.

660
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,880
But yeah, I try not to think too much of that because it's like, you know, it's one event

661
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:24,000
in the year.

662
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,000
Although last year I started the the Vega Palooza.

663
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,000
I don't know if you heard about it.

664
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,480
It's like a spring fair vegan also.

665
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,040
But you know, it's not like I try to do this year round.

666
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:37,160
So it's a it's a little bit of a sacrifice, but it's okay.

667
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,040
I mean, it's like I say, it's my form of activism.

668
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:46,080
So whatever, you know, it's just, of course, and your social media team is also a team

669
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:47,880
of volunteers, I guess.

670
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:48,880
Yes.

671
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,960
Well, they they basically do so much work for so little that it's basically practically

672
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,960
volunteerism.

673
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:02,360
You know, it's they're they're they're basically a vegan only social media team.

674
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,800
So they work a lot of other vegan companies.

675
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,560
So in that sense, we're all kind of centered around the same values.

676
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,200
So I'm really happy with our collaboration.

677
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,280
That team is called Flora, Flora Communications.

678
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:23,240
So basically, they're the first exclusively vegan social media management company in Quebec.

679
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:24,240
Amazing.

680
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:26,880
I did not know about them.

681
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:31,480
I'll try and get more information after this show.

682
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,080
Yeah, well, they they've been they've been helping out the festival.

683
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:36,080
The festival began.

684
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:37,860
They've been helping them out.

685
00:43:37,860 --> 00:43:41,000
And then they've been helping me out for the last two years.

686
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:45,080
So yeah, I'm really, really happy we have having them on board because they you know,

687
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:49,000
they're the professionals in terms of dealing with social media.

688
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,440
So that at least that part is taken off of my plate because I have so many other things

689
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:53,440
to take care of.

690
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,800
But yeah, it's a good collaboration.

691
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:06,560
So let's talk about this year's edition of the vegan market at the vegan Christmas market.

692
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,760
What are you looking for?

693
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:16,120
What are you expecting for this year's edition?

694
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,400
What are you excited about?

695
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:24,640
Do you have any startups that you want to to mention?

696
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:29,640
I want to know, you know, the big highlights for this year.

697
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:37,720
Well, we have a few new faces that were not there in previous years or even there in other

698
00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:38,720
events in Montreal.

699
00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:46,080
That's the thing, because we keep our our vendor booth costs low, lower than most other

700
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:47,640
events.

701
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:53,000
So I think a lot of times what that happened, what happens is that business that start a

702
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:58,560
new venture or whatever, they find it hard to participate in those bigger events.

703
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,960
So to them, the Christmas market, the vegan Christmas market is like an opportunity for

704
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,580
them to have a booth at a lower cost.

705
00:45:05,580 --> 00:45:09,520
So then we end up having a lot of newcomers.

706
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:10,680
So there are quite a few.

707
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:16,240
I don't want to reveal them quite yet, because the list of vendors are going to be up in

708
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:19,560
a couple of days.

709
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:21,080
But yeah, we'll have some new faces.

710
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:25,240
And I'm always excited because sometimes these companies, you cannot find them in other events

711
00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:29,000
and they offer quite like amazing products, really.

712
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,640
So yeah, I'm really excited about that.

713
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:38,260
This show will be released on November 21st.

714
00:45:38,260 --> 00:45:44,440
So I think you can share the list of people.

715
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,000
I think the list will be already up at this point.

716
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,000
Oh, yeah.

717
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,000
OK.

718
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:51,000
Well, I mean, I can.

719
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:55,120
Well, first of all, we have one of our sponsors is Vigique.

720
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,840
They were there at the festival at the Christmas market last year, as well as the Montreal

721
00:45:58,840 --> 00:45:59,840
Festival.

722
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:05,120
But they're a new plant based meat companies.

723
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,300
And they're actually sponsoring our event in Toronto.

724
00:46:07,300 --> 00:46:08,300
So they're expanding.

725
00:46:08,300 --> 00:46:12,920
We're always happy to see companies growing.

726
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,080
So we're happy about that.

727
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:21,000
And then we have this company that's going to do chocolate bombs and all that stuff.

728
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:26,280
That's really basically like a very small startup.

729
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,680
It's called Ramona.

730
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:29,680
That's her name.

731
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,560
It's the name of the owner.

732
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,400
So I'm excited about that because I've seen the stuff that she makes.

733
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:39,600
And it's going to be quite a thing to try out.

734
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:40,720
I'm excited about that.

735
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:45,460
And then we have V Charles that does vegan handbags.

736
00:46:45,460 --> 00:46:46,960
She was there last year.

737
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:51,240
Actually, she was there at our spring festival.

738
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:54,860
She was actually last year at our Christmas event as a volunteer.

739
00:46:54,860 --> 00:46:58,720
So this just goes to show you how sometimes people get involved in other aspects of the

740
00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:02,640
market and they actually join in in another dimension.

741
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,320
So now she's actually a vendor.

742
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,760
And she does amazing vegan handbags.

743
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,240
They're just beautifully created.

744
00:47:11,240 --> 00:47:13,800
So I'm excited about having her on board as well.

745
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:18,560
And then we've got a company that's actually not entirely vegan, but they're offering some

746
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,840
vegan products that it's called Unicone.

747
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,200
So they're going to be serving hot chocolate.

748
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:28,640
So this year we actually, because one of the comments we had last year, people would say

749
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,720
we ate so well, but we were so thirsty.

750
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:33,120
There wasn't enough to drink last year.

751
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,360
So this year I really made an effort of getting more beverages in.

752
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:41,960
So we actually have quite a few, not quite a few, but we have a few hot chocolate stands.

753
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:48,400
So I'm actually hoping for the hot chocolate to be something that's going to draw on people

754
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,160
walking by to just come in, not because they're vegan or anything, but just because they want

755
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:53,160
a cup of hot chocolate.

756
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,360
And maybe as they're in there, they can visit the rest of the market.

757
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:00,360
So I'm actually happy about having these vendors in there selling stuff like hot chocolate

758
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,840
because anybody could have a cup of hot chocolate.

759
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,400
So yeah, I'm excited about that.

760
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:11,640
And we always have the better known vegan companies that are always part of our roster

761
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:12,640
of vendors.

762
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,040
We have Parisien Vegetarien that do the most amazing mock meats.

763
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:17,040
Unbelievable.

764
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:18,360
They're there with us.

765
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:19,360
I know.

766
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:20,360
I know.

767
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:21,360
That's just like, I don't know if you eat that.

768
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,480
I don't know why you even bother having to eat the other meats.

769
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,680
But anyways, it's just, yeah.

770
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,560
So there's a few vendors that are there and there's some other surprises.

771
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,080
And also this year we're going to have a lot of draws.

772
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:39,160
Well, we have them every year, but this year we have more prizes.

773
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:43,800
And we also have for the first time this year participation from vegan restaurants that

774
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:49,960
are not vendors, but they are offering like gift certificate that will be raffled up during

775
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:51,000
the event.

776
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:56,080
So that's another thing that we're excited to have at the event.

777
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:57,080
Awesome.

778
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:02,160
You know, when I think about it, the only time of the year when I get to drink hot chocolate

779
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,240
is during Christmas, during the holidays.

780
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:09,280
It's so sad because you know, when you're a kid, you think I'll eat all of the candies

781
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,960
of the world when I grew up, but then you don't.

782
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:14,960
Yeah.

783
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:20,840
I mean, we have hot chocolate and the lady that I told you about Ramona, she's going

784
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:25,120
to have the hot chocolate bombs to go with the hot chocolate that the other vendors are

785
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:26,120
selling.

786
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,560
So I mean, like it's, it's going to be a nice mix of vendors this year.

787
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,920
So I'm really excited about the, the unveiling of the event.

788
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:38,800
Oh, I'll be there.

789
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:40,080
I'm sold.

790
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:41,080
Yeah.

791
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:42,360
And it's free.

792
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:48,160
So I mean, there's really literally no excuse not to, you know, at least a visit, right?

793
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,600
I mean, I keep telling people, you know, share the events, you know, share it around with

794
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:56,280
your family and friends who are not vegan because really they, they might find a lot

795
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:57,280
of stuff that they like.

796
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,840
They didn't even realize that's vegan and it's just as good, you know, it's just, and

797
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:01,840
it's free.

798
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:07,880
So it's really no, no loss for just walking in and visiting the booth and trying out samples,

799
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,000
you know, veganism.

800
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,080
I think a lot of people are just like afraid of thinking about it, thinking it's so overwhelming

801
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:15,360
to make this whole switch.

802
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,440
Are they going to like the products?

803
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,040
You know, what's this whole world they don't know about, but this is an event where you

804
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,440
can literally just walk in and try out things.

805
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:24,440
It's not for you.

806
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:25,440
Fine.

807
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,120
But you might find otherwise, you know,

808
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:35,000
which is the best way to convince someone of trying veganism is to bring them to a vegan

809
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:36,440
event.

810
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:41,360
That's the point I made in my episode on the vegan festival of Montreal.

811
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,760
And I could make the same point for your festival.

812
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:51,640
If you want to convince family or friends of considering veganism, forget about arguing,

813
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,800
forget about watching Earthlings.

814
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,820
Just bring them to a vegan festival.

815
00:50:57,820 --> 00:51:06,240
Let them see what vegan look like and veganism looks like, what vegan food tastes like, just

816
00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:11,720
to get rid of that unfamiliar feeling that they might have.

817
00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:12,720
Yeah.

818
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:13,720
Yeah.

819
00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:14,720
Yeah.

820
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:15,720
It shouldn't feel like work, right?

821
00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:16,720
It should not feel like work.

822
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:18,360
It should feel like fun.

823
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:25,120
And to me, fun is the best way to convince people, to change people's mind rather than

824
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:30,360
making it sound like it's an educational program where you need to do exactly this.

825
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,140
Of course.

826
00:51:32,140 --> 00:51:40,020
So you were talking about how you had a vegan Christmas market in New York.

827
00:51:40,020 --> 00:51:50,760
Are you planning on doing the vegan Christmas market next year in New York again or in other

828
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:52,360
places?

829
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:55,920
Do you want to expand your venture?

830
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:03,400
Well, ideally, I would want to have the vegan Christmas market in all the major cities,

831
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:08,840
but I also realize how restricted I am in terms of resources because a lot of it is

832
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:11,720
myself and the social media team.

833
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:17,200
So unless I find some sort of collaborators in the other cities, I probably will not be

834
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:18,960
doing a New York one.

835
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,840
And I also want to preserve my dark hair.

836
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:24,640
I don't want to have more gray hair.

837
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:26,600
So yeah, I mean, we'll see how it goes.

838
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:30,560
But I think for now, it's just going to be Montreal, Toronto, and maybe another city

839
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:31,660
in Canada somewhere.

840
00:52:31,660 --> 00:52:38,800
But I wouldn't go over the borders just because it's a lot of organization logistics-wise

841
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:42,960
I mean, New York was just a nightmare to organize from Montreal.

842
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:47,920
I went there maybe a couple of times just to look at the hall and take some measurements,

843
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:53,280
but everything else was done from virtually, basically.

844
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:57,920
And when you're not from the city, it's harder to understand all the regulations are involved,

845
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:01,240
what you should follow and what you can't just disregard.

846
00:53:01,240 --> 00:53:03,880
And so it was really hard to organize the event in New York.

847
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:08,960
So I probably wouldn't venture in that direction again.

848
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,160
But yeah, we'll see in terms of support.

849
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:18,680
If I have more support, I might do another city somewhere in Canada, but probably not

850
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:19,680
the US.

851
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:21,840
Well, okay.

852
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:30,560
So if some listeners are truly motivated to launch their own Christmas vegan market and

853
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:36,600
want to reach out to you, would you be open to hear their request and maybe have a collaboration

854
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:37,600
with them?

855
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:38,600
Yeah, absolutely.

856
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:42,120
I mean, I'm always open to that.

857
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:48,920
I can certainly have based on my experience, I can share what I know.

858
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:54,400
And if it makes sense to collaborate, I would probably be more hands off.

859
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,400
But yeah, I'm totally open to that potential collaboration.

860
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:04,200
If someone out there is in another city in the US, I don't know, in LA or something,

861
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,400
and they want to do a vegan Christmas market.

862
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:11,040
Sure, you know, reach out to me and we can discuss it.

863
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:15,720
If you don't want to, we can also edit this out of the interview.

864
00:54:15,720 --> 00:54:21,920
I mean, initially, I really wanted to do New York, LA, Toronto, Montreal.

865
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,200
But because I realized the madness of that, I took LA away.

866
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:26,200
I did New York.

867
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:32,000
But even that was a lot, you know, so and I'd rather have an event that's really, you

868
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:36,720
know, like where I can fully be there and fully participate in all its aspects than,

869
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:39,040
you know, trying to do too many at the same time.

870
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:43,640
And, you know, so yeah, I mean, I'm open if there's a collaboration elsewhere, but I

871
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,840
wouldn't do it like just myself again in New York.

872
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:47,480
It was just madness.

873
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:48,480
Of course.

874
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:56,720
So, Anne, before we end this conversation, did you want to add something?

875
00:54:56,720 --> 00:55:03,800
Well, I really hope that your listeners out there will drop by to visit us at the vegan

876
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:07,720
Christmas market in Montreal, or if you're in Toronto, then visit us in Toronto.

877
00:55:07,720 --> 00:55:10,440
Yeah, I really hope you enjoy it.

878
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,920
And remember that we also have the spring event.

879
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,960
I don't remember the date off the top of my head, but it's going to be in the end of May,

880
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:18,960
I believe.

881
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:27,200
So it's just an extension of the vegan central theme of vegan products.

882
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,520
And yeah, it's called Vega Palooza.

883
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:31,520
That's the spring event.

884
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:36,440
I would love to have you on again to talk about vegan Palooza.

885
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:37,440
It sounds amazing.

886
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,120
I don't know why I did not hear about it sooner.

887
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:44,720
Yeah, it was our first edition, you know, and we try to keep it small.

888
00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:46,880
I try to keep it small.

889
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:51,120
So yeah, we had less vendors, but it was actually we actually had more visitors at that event

890
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:52,600
than the Christmas one before that.

891
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:56,200
So in that sense, it was encouraging.

892
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:01,160
But yes, I really hope to have have it grow more and more.

893
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:02,400
Great.

894
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:08,180
And thank you so much for having been a guest on this show and for having shared so much

895
00:56:08,180 --> 00:56:11,640
about your event, your journey.

896
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,400
And yeah, this was such a pleasant conversation.

897
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:15,800
Thank you.

898
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:16,800
Thank you so much.

899
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:17,800
And thank you for what you're doing.

900
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,520
I mean, to have a podcast that's centralized on vegan products and vegan people and vegan

901
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:22,520
events.

902
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:23,520
That's just amazing.

903
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:25,440
And I'm really happy that you're doing this.

904
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:26,440
Thank you.

905
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:27,440
Thank you so much.

906
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,120
Thank you, everyone, for listening.

907
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,480
And thank you so much for being a friend of this show.

908
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,200
As always, please share this episode with your community.

909
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:40,180
Let's inspire more people to take action.

910
00:56:40,180 --> 00:56:44,960
If you're listening to this on Apple podcasts, please leave a five star review.

911
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:51,240
Finally, you can always follow me on Instagram at vegan report podcast.

912
00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:53,160
Thank you again for listening.

913
00:56:53,160 --> 00:57:15,600
Take care and see you soon.