Hello everyone, my name is Ryan and you're listening to The Vegan Report.
If you are an ethical vegan and you care to do more to end animal abuse, then this podcast
is for you.
Every Tuesday discover passionate, thought-provoking and inspiring vegan leaders from all walks
of life who will inspire you to take action.
This week marks the official beginning of the holiday season.
I don't know where you are but here in Canada, winter is harsh.
Every year I look forward to the warmth of the holidays, starting with time off from
work, but also the colorful and bright decorations of Christmas, the New Year's fireworks and
of course all the beautiful memories you create with your loved ones.
All of this helps tremendously with the transition from November to six months of snowy and cold
weather.
And as a vegan, what better way to inaugurate those celebrations than by attending the Vegan
Christmas Market, an event held every year in Montreal and Toronto, and I find this event
amazingly convenient.
Are you looking for a cruelty-free Christmas gift?
Well, your favorite vegan brands for clothing, beauty products and more will be present.
Are you looking for ingredients to veganize the family meals, to get the famous reaction
of this is vegan?
The Vegan Christmas Market regroups your favorite vegan food brands, plus some vegan startups
which new products will blow your mind.
But most importantly, this is a great occasion to meet other vegans in a time of the year
that can feel isolating.
I know every time I sit at the dinner table with my extended family, the topic of my diet
comes up.
Then I need to explain why I'm vegan all over again and I feel like a broken record.
To inspire you to launch your own vegan Christmas initiative in your town or on a smaller scale,
I have none other than the founder of the Vegan Christmas Market.
And welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for being here.
Thanks for having me.
Can you first provide listeners who want to attend the Vegan Christmas Market with the
dates and locations of the event?
Our Montreal event is going to be held December 2nd and 3rd.
That's a Saturday and Sunday.
And then we have the following weekend, we'll be in Toronto doing the same event, but in
Toronto.
In Montreal, you're going to be at the House of Sustainability?
Exactly.
So it's held at the, they call it the Maison de développement durable.
It's on St. Catherine Street in downtown Montreal.
It's going to be open to the public from 10am to 6pm, both Saturday and Sunday.
Admission is actually free, so anyone can join.
There's going to be plenty of samples, food, lots of lots of interesting things to try
out there.
And what about Toronto?
Where are you in Toronto?
In Toronto this year, we are doing it at this place called the Lithuanian House.
It's kind of like a venue where people organize events.
It's a reception hall.
So we're in the ballroom over there.
So yeah, it's going to be December 9th and 10th, also 10am to 6pm.
That's in Toronto.
I think it's 1573 Blur Street in Toronto.
Amazing.
Thank you.
So Anne, how did you come up with the idea of a vegan Christmas market?
So back in 2018, I had started a vegan catering company.
And in parallel, I also started my line of vegan sauces, Asian vegan sauces.
And then I realized, you know, there are not a lot of events that I can present my products
to for the vegan community.
You know, there's the Montreal Festival, but in Montreal, other than that, there's not
many other events.
So I thought, you know, why not organize an event for the holiday?
And why not make it exclusively vegan?
So that's how it started.
And the first one was pretty much crazy because I had that idea like very, very close to the
holiday season.
I basically started three weeks ahead of the event day.
So that was like mad dash because in three weeks, I had to recruit the vendors, had to
rent the hall, do all the logistics and everything.
And it went pretty well.
I mean, it was a very small event that first year, but it was a successful event.
And I remember exactly the lady who was in charge of the venue.
She told me, you know, next year, if you want to come back, you're more than welcome.
But we're not going to let you do this in three weeks.
You need to start way ahead.
Yeah.
So since then, I've been taking, you know, the prep work much sooner.
But yeah, that's how it got started in 2018.
And you know, in 2019, we actually did Montreal and Toronto and New York.
That was somewhat crazy, crazy idea that just came out of the blue because to organize three
events consecutively is just mad.
And then afterwards, we had the pandemic, so we couldn't do anything in person.
So then I kept the Montreal and Toronto virtual for those years in between that we were all
basically locked down.
And then last year, we came back to Montreal in person.
I didn't do one in Toronto last year because I couldn't find a venue that was the right
venue for us.
But this year, we're coming back to, you know, both Montreal and Toronto in person.
So I can't wait to see what it's going to be like.
I'm really excited about both of your events.
That's amazing.
That's truly amazing.
And is there something about Christmas that made you want to create a festival around
that?
Because if I had to choose like one celebration in a year to celebrate and create a festival
around it, it would be Christmas.
I absolutely love everything around Christmas.
So is it the same for you?
I do too.
And Christmas is like, you know, it's one of my favorite holidays.
It's so festive.
Everybody is in a cheery mood, you know, and you kind of want to just, you know, like shop
for gifts and try out stuff and everything.
And unfortunately, most Christmas markets out there don't really cater to people who
are looking for plant based products.
So you know, it's kind of it's not it's not convenient when you go to a place and you
have to constantly look at the you know, into the ingredients.
And is this made out of leather?
Is it not?
You know, so it's not a really easy shopping experience for people who are solely looking
for plant based products.
So to me, it makes perfect sense to have an event that's Christmas, that's centered around
Christmas and that's exclusively plant based.
And also being an entrepreneur, like, from that standpoint, I just felt like it made
sense for us to have a platform that we can just basically show what we've made, what's
available and basically interact directly with our customers.
You know, they get to try it, try the product, they get to discover things that they would
not otherwise find out.
And then we get to meet people directly.
So we get to talk to people, we get feedback, you know, and the whole thing is just very
energizing for both us as the creators of the other products.
And it's also very, you know, it's a nice experience to discover new products as a consumer
as well.
And to me, that's like, it just made sense to have an event like that.
And I have lots of questions about the event itself and also your company and your entrepreneurial
journey.
But let's take a few step backs and talk about your vegan journey.
How did it start?
Did you have like, some sensitivity toward animal suffering?
Were you an animal lover before becoming vegan?
Or were you convinced maybe by a vegan activist?
So tell us the story of your vegan journey.
You know, I like the fact that you used the word sensitivities because that's exactly
how I would describe my experience.
So I would like to say that I went vegan overnight, but I didn't, you know, and I started having
sensitivities, like you say, very, very young, I would like, you know, I would feel like
there's something wrong with the idea of eating meat.
I couldn't quite understand what is wrong with it, or I couldn't, I didn't really know
what other alternatives there were.
You know, I had a friend who was vegetarian, but she never really spoke about why she was.
And I kind of had a sense that, you know, maybe it's not quite right that we kill animals
and stuff like that.
And I remember in my teen years, at one point, I saw this news report on the news about this
serial killer.
You know, it was a really like, like a sort of like a crime kind of story.
And I was really impacted by that because I thought this is so horrible, you know, what
that person did.
Basically it was a serial killer who I think was like eating his victims or something like
that.
And I was thinking, wait, I'm so disturbed by that story.
But then we humans also eat other living beings.
So how is that different?
You know, like I started asking myself that and I'm like, okay, the guy ate other people.
So I'm really disturbed by that.
But then here I am eating cows and pigs and, you know, fish and all that.
Like what is the difference?
Where is it?
Where do we draw the line?
What's right and what's wrong?
You know, so I felt really uncomfortable with that sort of moral dilemma.
And I try for a very long time to justify it by saying, you know, well, you know, I'm
not eating other humans, right?
I'm just eating animals and everybody's doing it.
So it's okay, I guess, you know.
I kind of stuck down, you know, the little voice in me that says, you know, there's something
wrong about this, you know.
And then for many, many years, I would just leave that and leave that in the back of my
mind.
And then I think when Facebook started, at one point, I was just scrolling Facebook and
then I kept seeing these videos that would say something like, oh, you know, here are
the sounds of a slaughterhouse or something like that.
And I would never ever click on any of those videos.
I would always basically scroll really fast so I wouldn't have to, you know, watch it
or whatever or hear anything from it.
And then I'm like, wait a minute, you know, like if I'm so terrified by this video, I
don't even want to hear it.
But then why am I participating in it?
You know, like it didn't make sense to try to avoid it to the degree of not wanting to
even watch it, but then to actively participate in, you know, making that happen.
So you know, the discomfort just grew in me more and more and I knew that at one point
I started to think, okay, you know what, how about how about I just eat organic meats only?
Maybe that way, at least the animals will be, you know, like at least living a happy life
before they get slaughtered, right?
So I kind of told myself that story.
I convinced myself of that story.
And for a while, for several years, I was just eating organic meats, basically.
But I think my moral conflict caught up with me because I was thinking, okay, this is still
not, you know, it doesn't make sense really, because we still have to kill the animal in
the end.
So the fact that they lived a better life or a healthier life or a more free or freer
life before they get slaughtered, it doesn't really, you know, like address the issue of
them being killed.
So then I thought, okay, let's just eat just fish only.
So for a while it was just, okay, so it was no more pork, no more beef.
Baby steps.
Yeah, so just fish, you know, I'm thinking like, you know what, they're living freely
in the ocean.
And maybe when we fish them out, it's just really, really a quick death.
That's what I told myself.
That's obviously not what happens.
But I told myself that and I made myself believe that.
So for a while I was eating only fish.
And then eventually again, you know, my moral conflict caught up with me again.
And I'm like, okay, this doesn't make sense.
And so I got to do something about it.
And I just like basically said, okay, that's enough.
No more, no more fish, no more pork, no more beef.
The other stuff like, you know, wearing leather, I was never into that anyway.
So I started out way before I even started any of the, you know, stopped eating meat
and all that stuff.
So to me, it wasn't, it wasn't a transition in terms of other products, but food, it took
quite some time for me to transition.
But yeah, eventually I did.
So it was, I think it was roughly 2017 that I just stopped all, all meat, all animal products,
basically.
I want to go back to what you said about eating meat is comparable to eating other human beings
to cannibalism.
This is the first time I'm hearing that, but this is a thought I had because it feels that
way.
It feels like cannibalism.
Like you wake up and you discover that everyone is being a cannibal or, or something.
Yeah, it's pretty, it's an intense feeling.
And also you mentioned a serial killer.
It's crazy how most psychopaths and serial killers start, you know, torturing animals
first.
You know, they start abusing animals and then they go to humans.
So you're right that the line between human and animal is just, it's pretty arbitrary.
It's completely arbitrary.
You know, it's a, it's a societal norm that we've just arbitrarily established that it's
okay to eat animals, non-human animals, but it's not okay to eat humans.
Right?
I mean, that's completely arbitrary and that's cultural.
But no, we've been, we've been that way for thousands and thousands of years and I can
understand why most people don't see it that way because it's so ingrained in our mentality.
And you know, people around me are still eating meat and I kind of, kind of just glaze over
the whole thing and just kind of see it as part of the landscape.
But yeah, if you were to really look at it, it doesn't make sense.
You know, why do we draw that line there?
It's completely arbitrary, especially when there's no real need for it.
I mean, I get that, I get that if you were like stranded in an island and you know, you've
had absolutely nothing else to eat and it's just you and a pig.
Okay.
But really how much, how many of us are really in that situation every day, you know, like
practically no one.
Right?
So, I mean, it's really, it's an arbitrary moral line that we've drawn there.
So yeah, it just didn't make sense.
And the comparison to serial killer, I mean, it's drastic and I get that most people will
find that very uncomfortable and maybe they even think that that's completely nonsensical.
But really, I mean, if we really think about it, there is no difference except for what
we've decided is okay and what's not.
I agree.
So you decide to transition to a vegan lifestyle and I use the word lifestyle because it's
diet plus the rest.
And I mentioned how many vegans feel isolated during Christmas.
What was the reaction of your family and your community and your circle of friends when
you decided to make that radical decision?
I also use the word radical because it is radical.
I mean, you're going against societal norms, against cultural norms, but I would not use
the word extreme to describe what is extreme is factory farming.
But yeah, so how did they react?
I would say that in my case, I was lucky in that my family are mostly supportive.
I mean, they are supportive.
I mean, of course, initially, my mom would have concerns about are you having enough
vitamins?
Are you eating enough proteins?
Typical concerns, which didn't bother me.
I knew that I was coming from a place of care.
But obviously, once I reassured her that was okay in terms of all the nutrients and everything,
it never became a subject.
But I know that for a fact that many of my friends who are vegan, they encounter those
situations with family that can be really, really difficult, having to bring your own
meals to a family meal or having difficulty gathering people around because other people
find your diet very restrictive and they don't like it and they pass comments about it and
things like that.
But in my case, it was rather a smooth transition.
So I find that I was lucky in that sense.
But there were the occasional comments like, oh, why don't you just try it just one time?
It doesn't matter.
Just one piece of cake.
It has a little bit of eggs, but whatever.
There'll be occasional comments like that.
But I don't let it get to me too much because I also know that it's quite a shift to make
to say that you're not going to switch completely over to ingredients or things that are not
animal based and just to change your life around completely.
So I get that most people will find that to be quite a shift.
So I just roll with the punches, I guess.
But yeah, in my case, I think it was just luck, I guess, that I have supported people
around me.
But in terms of friendship, I think I might have lost a few friends because we just don't
go out anymore because it made it difficult to pick restaurants and stuff like that.
But you get over it.
Make other friends.
Make newer friends.
It's part of life, I guess, when you change, people change too.
Yeah, vegans are pretty resilient.
It's admirable.
Okay, so you are vegan, but then you take it a step further.
So some vegan decide to go into activism.
You chose entrepreneurship.
What made you take that extra step?
I have nothing but utter utmost respect and admiration for activists, people who actually
go out there and do the cubes of truth or people who protest and things like that.
But it's just not part of my personality.
I wish I would have the audacity to do that kind of stuff, but it's just not part of me.
So my way of contributing to creating awareness for other people was basically to start a
business that would offer products that's an alternative, that's a plant-based alternative.
So in a way, it's kind of my form of activism, one that's more aligned with my personality.
That's how I see it.
It was never about, let's try to make as much money as we can.
That was never the goal to begin with, but obviously it's a business, so obviously you
want to make it sustainable.
But at the very start, it was basically my idea of doing my form of activism that got
me started in creating plant-based products.
Initially I couldn't find any plant-based Asian food around a lot.
So then I started a catering company that did basically only vegan Asian menu.
And it just went on from there.
And I'm so glad to hear you say that because this whole podcast, the idea behind it is
to encourage people to take action, to be more than just vegan.
And it can take many forms.
It doesn't have to be the activist way of doing it.
I mean, I relate to you.
I'm not the kind of person who goes in a protest or something like that.
I'm an introvert.
I prefer doing this podcast, putting some distance between me and people and the crowds.
But yeah, I completely get it.
So you mentioned launching the vegan Christmas market in New York.
Is your product line available in the US or is it just in Canada?
My product line is actually not available in the US.
But back when I did it in New York, I actually had a, well, I still have it.
I also have a line of vegan outerwear.
So that is available in the US.
So that when I started the vegan Christmas market in New York, it was also to promote
my vegan outerwear line.
But yeah, but the sauces are not yet available in the US.
So mention your two companies and how do people can get in touch to purchase your product?
So for my vegan outerwear, it's mostly sold online.
The website is boidaouterwear.com.
And then my sauces, they're going to be sold.
They are already sold in a few grocery stores in and around Montreal.
Actually, there are some outside of Montreal as well in Quebec City and Trois Rivieres
and all that.
But yeah, so my sauce, my food products are in grocery stores and my outerwear line is
online.
And the idea behind boida outerwear, boida is actually a word that sounds, well, the
Korean word that sounds like boida actually means to be visible.
And when I created that line, I had the idea that I wanted the plight of animals, their
suffering to be visible to the world.
So that's why I call the line boida outerwear.
And our coats are basically, they're made out of, so there's no duvet, obviously, because
that's what most winter coats are insulated with.
And that is the really cruel industry that basically uses duck feathers.
And the ducks condition are really, really horrible.
They get plucked, sometimes live plucked.
So yeah, so my alternative insulation material is basically part corn fibers.
And the line, it's actually called Vega goose, which is a little bit of a wink for Canada
goose.
But yeah, so that's my line of outerwear.
Amazing.
And I put links in the description for people who want to explore and see it.
I think in the vegan Montreal scene, you're pretty well known.
People have tasted your products or tested your products from the vegan festival of Montreal
or just from visiting your favorite vegan shop or health shop.
And I know that the logo of your food company is an image of the Buddha.
And I would like to know if there is a link with Buddhism or Eastern philosophy.
Well, I mean, it's very, you've got a good eye because a lot of people don't even notice
that it's the shadow, the silhouette of a Buddha.
But yes, I was raised, I'm of Vietnamese origin.
So my family raised me, the religion and the family was Buddhism.
Obviously we're not fully, fully practicant.
We don't go to the temple every week or anything like that, just as most people don't.
But the philosophy of Buddhism has always been something that really is important to
me.
The idea of not harming others, the idea of karma, the idea that we're all living beings
that are equal on this planet.
So those ideas have always struck a chord in me.
So when I created that logo, it just made sense to use something that was related to
that.
So yeah, that's where the silhouette of the Buddha is.
He was sitting under a Bodhi tree.
Bodhi tree is the tree of awareness.
I don't know how much you know about the story of the Buddha, but he basically sat and meditated
under that tree.
And after a certain amount of time, he reached enlightenment.
And Bodhi means to be enlightened.
To me, I kind of see my journey towards veganism as a bit of an eye opening experience for myself.
So in that way, I feel like I was, you know, I don't want to say I'm enlightened.
I'm in no way or shape enlightened.
But what I'm trying to say is that, you know, I had an experience where I was, you know,
my eyes were open to the reality of the animals suffering.
So in that sense, it is an awakening.
So yeah, that's why I use the Bodhi tree and the silhouette of the Buddha there.
I'm actually a Buddhist.
So I think that's why I was aware of the, you know, that discrete silhouette.
And yeah, there is something to be said about the influence of Buddhism on the Asian diet.
I mean, everywhere where Buddhism was established, you have some vegan options and great vegan
options.
Almost everywhere.
The exception is Japan.
But yeah, and it's wonderful to see that positive impact of that spirituality.
Yeah, I mean, like when I traveled a few years ago to South Korea, they have restaurants
that are owned by monks and they serve nothing but vegan food, basically.
Unfortunately, we don't have that in Montreal.
But you know, some of the temples, they serve meals and they're always basically vegan
meals.
So yeah, I mean, vegetarianism and veganism are both very important in Buddhism.
So the people who practice Buddhism don't normally adhere to that diet, but the monks,
they usually do.
Yeah, so me, it just made sense to use that logo, you know.
And like to me, it's just, I don't know.
I always feel like at some point in the future, down history, we're going to look back how
we used to be and see how we've treated animals.
And we're going to be pretty much horrified by what we've done, you know.
So it's just, to me, it's probably just a matter of time before most people will be
awakened to that reality.
It may take quite a bit of time, but I think eventually we will get there.
Especially when you look at, you know, with the advent of AI and everything, there is
a question now being raised, you know, like, what's the ethical treatment of an AI if it
becomes conscious, right?
So we're just kind of gearing towards that question of what's ethical treatment of something
that's conscious and what's not.
Well, the parallel is can very easily be drawn with animals there, right?
I mean, if an AI is conscious and we're like thinking, is it okay to turn it off?
You know, the connection between that and a conscious animal is not very far.
We should ask the same question when it comes to animals.
Is it okay to, you know, use them, exploit them for our own benefit?
To me, it's just a parallel that's going to be drawn pretty soon, you know.
And also to take it further, what kind of views and judgment would that AI have on upon
us looking at our immoral actions?
I mean, we often, you know, we have this fear of aliens or AI invading the earth, taking
over.
And sometimes I think maybe that would be great.
Maybe they would be more moral and ethical in the ways of having power and being in charge.
I mean, when we think of AI, I mean, a lot of times we're thinking now, okay, they're
like basically learning everything that we are and our values based on what's out there
on the internet, right?
And how we've been living.
Well, what do you think they're going to see as our values if they see that all we've been
doing so far is exploiting, you know, murdering animals, raping them and doing all that.
What are they learning from us basically?
They're basically having the impression that we are these barbaric creatures that do all
these horrible things.
This is not a model we want to be projecting to them.
To me, it's like a parent, right?
I mean, you're a parent to a child and they're learning from you.
You don't want to be exhibiting all these horrendous behaviors.
And that's basically what's happening right now.
They're kind of observing everything that we're doing now.
And to me, it's kind of urgent that we get our act together.
And, you know, I don't know, it's just to me, it will a little bit in trouble here because
it's difficult to establish an ethical line for them.
But then they're watch everything that we're doing and nothing corresponds to what we're
telling them to do.
You know?
So, yeah, it's something we should really think about.
There is that you're right.
There's this bias that could be integrated in those AI.
But I was more thinking about how AI could be this supreme intelligence.
And if you're intelligent, you must be moral in a way.
You must take the moral way because it's just not smart to behave that way toward animals,
toward our planet and so on.
Yeah, no, you're right.
I think that once they realize what we've been doing, they'll probably think, okay,
well, away they go.
Let's turn them on to paper clips because they're just completely useless.
I mean, they're wrecking the planet.
They're killing all the animals for no reason.
Off with them.
We can run this world much better than they do.
Yeah, much more compassionately.
Yeah.
Exactly.
But, you know, I also want to have compassion toward, you know, people who just are victim
of their conditioning because that's most people who eat animals or participate in the
exploitation of animals.
I feel like it's just their conditioning and they're like, you know, just stretching the
analogy here.
They have been programmed to behave this way.
So yeah.
I mean, I don't see it as us and them kind of thing.
You know, a lot of vegans against non-vegans.
It's not like that at all.
And I don't think it should ever be seen that way because that doesn't really help anything.
It really is a matter of creating awareness and educating people.
You know, you don't know what you don't know, right?
So it just really is, you know, trying to get the information out there and just basically
opening eyes more and more.
So yeah, I never want to see it as us versus them.
And that just never helps in any social causes really.
I absolutely agree.
Yeah.
And we were them.
I mean, yeah, we were, there's no them really.
It's just us with different views, right?
It's all of us with different views.
There isn't, there's never really us versus them.
You know, we all have different preferences and you know, some of them make more sense
ethically and some of them don't.
And it's just important to discuss these things.
And hopefully we come to a more, you know, compassionate way of dealing with things,
but it's never us versus them.
And you know, they say, you know, like what, I can't remember who was it that said like
the line between good and evil lies in the heart of every man.
I mean, like basically we're all, you know, have that line between what's ethical and
what's not, you know, it's just what, where you choose to go, right?
And sometimes it's just a lack of information, you know, and sometimes it's just cultural
with you've been raised that way forever.
So you know, that's, that's the only way to think about things.
It's not, yeah, there's no, there's no divide there between us and them.
There is no them.
It's just us all, you know.
Yeah.
So you're pretty familiar with the, the entrepreneurial community in, in the vegan world.
What is your sense of the future?
I feel like you're pretty optimistic about the future, but do you think that we're winning
in this economical competition to get consumers more interested in vegan products and vegan
alternatives to everything?
I find that it's a very slow progress and it feels like it's an uphill battle.
When you look at the numbers, because, you know, even though when I'm doing the market,
I realize how there were, you have so many vendors, you know, everyone and their neighbor
basically has some sort of vegan product line out there, right?
That's what, that's the feeling that I get.
But then once you go out of that, you know, the world, you realize the amount of consumers
that are vegan are still less than 3% in Canada.
And I think that's about the average elsewhere too.
So you know, it does feel like an uphill battle, but I think it's, it's, you know, it's, it's
moving forward for sure.
So I'm positive and optimistic about that.
But you know, like from the standpoint of companies, I see so many companies are plant
based, even the non plant based companies are coming out with, you know, plant based
products and all of that, even during the market this year, you know, I have quite a
few vendors that sell a mix of products, but then they have a line that's exclusively vegan,
you know, because they realize that there's a market for it.
So that's very encouraging.
But overall, you know, there's still a long way to go before it becomes like generalized
in the public.
Kind of like, I can't remember, what was it like that line where it becomes, it goes from
just being the early adopters to, you know, being something that's more of interest to
everybody.
We're still a little bit far away from there.
You know, we need to reach like something like 15%, I believe, to cross that line.
We're still quite low in that, in that percentage, I think.
So there's a lot of work to do still.
Well, at my last visit of the Vegan Festival of Montreal, I invited a few entrepreneurs
I connected with to appear on the podcast and talk about their vegan products.
And some of them will be featured in the future on this show.
And I was surprised to see how many vegan entrepreneurs for vegan products were not
vegan.
And that this was like more of a entrepreneurial activity than a vegan, you know, like you,
like there is an ethical, ethical dimension and social responsibility to what they're
doing.
And they felt pretty shy to appear on this show, because then, you know, they look at
the episodes and I'm mostly representing the ethical argument for veganism.
And I understand them.
And I still wish for their success.
And I'm glad that they exist.
But what do you make of that phenomenon?
A part of me feels a little bit conflicted, because I always want to promote, you know,
veganism in all of its dimensions.
So obviously, I want to feature vendors that are 100% vegan, their whole lines of products
are vegan, and they themselves are vegan.
That's in an ideal world.
But then we don't live in an ideal world.
And I kind of want to encourage those people who are not vegans to kind of, you know, get
into our world and see what it's like.
And to me, that's probably a good way of convincing them, you know, to maybe switch over to veganism.
So that's what so even though I have conflicted feelings about that, I kind of just, you know,
I encourage it really.
So you know, we do have some vendors that I know are not vegan.
And I know their other products in their stores are not vegan.
But you know, if they have an interest in, in joining the market, and to really understand
that this is a market that's centered not around environmental issue, we're not trying
to be environmentalists here, we're really centered around the ethics of, you know, animals.
So as long as we have that understanding, then, you know, to me, it's just, it's just
fine that we're all in this project together.
And yeah,
I agree.
And that's the approach I decided to adopt, you know, I want to be welcoming and supportive.
And with the hope that one day they will make that transition happen.
Yeah, yeah.
Because it doesn't really make sense to like sort of being exclusive in the sense that
we'll be like, no, you know, if you're not vegan, you can't join this market, you know,
that's just, you know, that's excluding people, that's not going to encourage anybody to try
veganism, you know, that certainly does the opposite, I think.
So if we're going to shoot ourselves in the feet, then, you know, shouldn't do that.
So to me, it just makes sense to be more open.
But of course, we always have to make it clear, like I tell people, you know, you can show
up at the market, you can do sell your products.
But then I give rules, you know, I'll be like, you know, I don't care what you eat, but at
the market, you cannot be eating, you know, piece of chicken, like as visitors pass by,
you know, for lunch, like it wouldn't, it's not part of our, it's not part of our branding,
but it's also not part of our values, you know, so you know, you cannot have a animal
based meal during the event in, you know, in front of other visitors.
You also cannot wear, you know, I mean, I don't say cannot, but I say you're not, you're
encouraged to not wear stuff that's, you know, visibly made of animal skin or something,
or say, walking in with a Canada goose coat, you know, when you're a vendor, there is a
little bit, you know, a sensitive issue, you know, I've had told people, you know, like,
I don't care what you wear outside of this, but you know, at the event we have to represent
the values of the market and I would like it, nobody did these things, you know, so
I mean, I have rules like that, but yeah, mostly people just, you know, they understand,
so yeah.
And I mean, it's just being a good entrepreneur, you need to understand your clientele.
I mean, yes, you're not, you should not be putting a coat made of feathers to talk with
vegans about your vegan liner products.
Yeah.
I mean, I know that several years ago, I made a mistake of not pointing that out and there
were a few people who walk, a few vendors who walked in with the Canada goose coats
and right away I had comments from some of our volunteers that were pointing out to me,
they were like, oh, they're wearing a Canada goose and they made an issue out of it and
I thought, okay, we can't have this, you know, so then the following year it was part of
our regulations.
You cannot wear stuff that's, you know, like, so obviously you made out of, you know, like
animal, you know, ingredients or something like that.
And, you know, people understand it.
I mean, if they don't like it, they don't have to participate, right?
I mean, this is our event and there's, there's a branding, you know, involved here.
So it's a, it just makes sense that people just, you know, respect that.
I think no matter where they stand on the issue of animals.
Well, since we are on the topic of the logistic of the event, how did you launch the first
couple of editions of the festival?
Where did you find your funding?
How did you manage to mobilize people around the event?
You know, on the logistic side, how, what was your experience and the lessons that you
drew from that?
I basically jumped out of the plane and just hoped I would fly.
Yeah, that's basically my approach.
Initially, I'm like, I want to do this.
I have three weeks to do this and I'm just going to like, you know, start recruiting
vendors and I'm going to, you know, advance the money to book the hall and it is what
it is.
And, you know, and luckily it worked out and logistics wise, it was kind of crazy.
And I did all the, you know, the, the, the promo, like the advertising myself on Facebook
and all of that.
Now I luckily, since the past two years, I have the support of our social media team,
but before that I used to do everything myself.
So it was kind of crazy.
But yeah, everything was basically like a gorilla style, you know, like let's just do
it, you know, white knuckle and let's just do it and get it done.
You know, that was my approach and luckily it worked out basically.
Yeah.
So it was a lot of luck, I think, and, and the vegan community in Montreal is very supportive,
I find.
So when you organize events that they know the reason behind it, you know, and they know
that you're making an effort, people are very supportive in Montreal.
Amazing and you have my full respect for trying this.
I think I might have gained a few white hair because of these events that I've organized,
but it's all right.
Talk for a good cause.
Well are you a volunteer?
Are you doing this, you know, as a volunteer?
Well, I mean, practically, yeah, because if I were to divide the amount of money that
we make versus the amount of hours, I probably making like, you know, like less than like
maybe something in the third world country kit would make, I don't know, like something
like ridiculous.
I don't even want to, like, I don't even want to do that calculation because it would just
be so discouraging.
But yeah, I try not to think too much of that because it's like, you know, it's one event
in the year.
Although last year I started the the Vega Palooza.
I don't know if you heard about it.
It's like a spring fair vegan also.
But you know, it's not like I try to do this year round.
So it's a it's a little bit of a sacrifice, but it's okay.
I mean, it's like I say, it's my form of activism.
So whatever, you know, it's just, of course, and your social media team is also a team
of volunteers, I guess.
Yes.
Well, they they basically do so much work for so little that it's basically practically
volunteerism.
You know, it's they're they're they're basically a vegan only social media team.
So they work a lot of other vegan companies.
So in that sense, we're all kind of centered around the same values.
So I'm really happy with our collaboration.
That team is called Flora, Flora Communications.
So basically, they're the first exclusively vegan social media management company in Quebec.
Amazing.
I did not know about them.
I'll try and get more information after this show.
Yeah, well, they they've been they've been helping out the festival.
The festival began.
They've been helping them out.
And then they've been helping me out for the last two years.
So yeah, I'm really, really happy we have having them on board because they you know,
they're the professionals in terms of dealing with social media.
So that at least that part is taken off of my plate because I have so many other things
to take care of.
But yeah, it's a good collaboration.
So let's talk about this year's edition of the vegan market at the vegan Christmas market.
What are you looking for?
What are you expecting for this year's edition?
What are you excited about?
Do you have any startups that you want to to mention?
I want to know, you know, the big highlights for this year.
Well, we have a few new faces that were not there in previous years or even there in other
events in Montreal.
That's the thing, because we keep our our vendor booth costs low, lower than most other
events.
So I think a lot of times what that happened, what happens is that business that start a
new venture or whatever, they find it hard to participate in those bigger events.
So to them, the Christmas market, the vegan Christmas market is like an opportunity for
them to have a booth at a lower cost.
So then we end up having a lot of newcomers.
So there are quite a few.
I don't want to reveal them quite yet, because the list of vendors are going to be up in
a couple of days.
But yeah, we'll have some new faces.
And I'm always excited because sometimes these companies, you cannot find them in other events
and they offer quite like amazing products, really.
So yeah, I'm really excited about that.
This show will be released on November 21st.
So I think you can share the list of people.
I think the list will be already up at this point.
Oh, yeah.
OK.
Well, I mean, I can.
Well, first of all, we have one of our sponsors is Vigique.
They were there at the festival at the Christmas market last year, as well as the Montreal
Festival.
But they're a new plant based meat companies.
And they're actually sponsoring our event in Toronto.
So they're expanding.
We're always happy to see companies growing.
So we're happy about that.
And then we have this company that's going to do chocolate bombs and all that stuff.
That's really basically like a very small startup.
It's called Ramona.
That's her name.
It's the name of the owner.
So I'm excited about that because I've seen the stuff that she makes.
And it's going to be quite a thing to try out.
I'm excited about that.
And then we have V Charles that does vegan handbags.
She was there last year.
Actually, she was there at our spring festival.
She was actually last year at our Christmas event as a volunteer.
So this just goes to show you how sometimes people get involved in other aspects of the
market and they actually join in in another dimension.
So now she's actually a vendor.
And she does amazing vegan handbags.
They're just beautifully created.
So I'm excited about having her on board as well.
And then we've got a company that's actually not entirely vegan, but they're offering some
vegan products that it's called Unicone.
So they're going to be serving hot chocolate.
So this year we actually, because one of the comments we had last year, people would say
we ate so well, but we were so thirsty.
There wasn't enough to drink last year.
So this year I really made an effort of getting more beverages in.
So we actually have quite a few, not quite a few, but we have a few hot chocolate stands.
So I'm actually hoping for the hot chocolate to be something that's going to draw on people
walking by to just come in, not because they're vegan or anything, but just because they want
a cup of hot chocolate.
And maybe as they're in there, they can visit the rest of the market.
So I'm actually happy about having these vendors in there selling stuff like hot chocolate
because anybody could have a cup of hot chocolate.
So yeah, I'm excited about that.
And we always have the better known vegan companies that are always part of our roster
of vendors.
We have Parisien Vegetarien that do the most amazing mock meats.
Unbelievable.
They're there with us.
I know.
That's just like, I don't know if you eat that.
I don't know why you even bother having to eat the other meats.
But anyways, it's just, yeah.
So there's a few vendors that are there and there's some other surprises.
And also this year we're going to have a lot of draws.
Well, we have them every year, but this year we have more prizes.
And we also have for the first time this year participation from vegan restaurants that
are not vendors, but they are offering like gift certificate that will be raffled up during
the event.
So that's another thing that we're excited to have at the event.
Awesome.
You know, when I think about it, the only time of the year when I get to drink hot chocolate
is during Christmas, during the holidays.
It's so sad because you know, when you're a kid, you think I'll eat all of the candies
of the world when I grew up, but then you don't.
Yeah.
I mean, we have hot chocolate and the lady that I told you about Ramona, she's going
to have the hot chocolate bombs to go with the hot chocolate that the other vendors are
selling.
So I mean, like it's, it's going to be a nice mix of vendors this year.
So I'm really excited about the, the unveiling of the event.
Oh, I'll be there.
I'm sold.
Yeah.
And it's free.
So I mean, there's really literally no excuse not to, you know, at least a visit, right?
I mean, I keep telling people, you know, share the events, you know, share it around with
your family and friends who are not vegan because really they, they might find a lot
of stuff that they like.
They didn't even realize that's vegan and it's just as good, you know, it's just, and
it's free.
So it's really no, no loss for just walking in and visiting the booth and trying out samples,
you know, veganism.
I think a lot of people are just like afraid of thinking about it, thinking it's so overwhelming
to make this whole switch.
Are they going to like the products?
You know, what's this whole world they don't know about, but this is an event where you
can literally just walk in and try out things.
It's not for you.
Fine.
But you might find otherwise, you know,
which is the best way to convince someone of trying veganism is to bring them to a vegan
event.
That's the point I made in my episode on the vegan festival of Montreal.
And I could make the same point for your festival.
If you want to convince family or friends of considering veganism, forget about arguing,
forget about watching Earthlings.
Just bring them to a vegan festival.
Let them see what vegan look like and veganism looks like, what vegan food tastes like, just
to get rid of that unfamiliar feeling that they might have.
Yeah.
It shouldn't feel like work, right?
It should not feel like work.
It should feel like fun.
And to me, fun is the best way to convince people, to change people's mind rather than
making it sound like it's an educational program where you need to do exactly this.
Of course.
So you were talking about how you had a vegan Christmas market in New York.
Are you planning on doing the vegan Christmas market next year in New York again or in other
places?
Do you want to expand your venture?
Well, ideally, I would want to have the vegan Christmas market in all the major cities,
but I also realize how restricted I am in terms of resources because a lot of it is
myself and the social media team.
So unless I find some sort of collaborators in the other cities, I probably will not be
doing a New York one.
And I also want to preserve my dark hair.
I don't want to have more gray hair.
So yeah, I mean, we'll see how it goes.
But I think for now, it's just going to be Montreal, Toronto, and maybe another city
in Canada somewhere.
But I wouldn't go over the borders just because it's a lot of organization logistics-wise
I mean, New York was just a nightmare to organize from Montreal.
I went there maybe a couple of times just to look at the hall and take some measurements,
but everything else was done from virtually, basically.
And when you're not from the city, it's harder to understand all the regulations are involved,
what you should follow and what you can't just disregard.
And so it was really hard to organize the event in New York.
So I probably wouldn't venture in that direction again.
But yeah, we'll see in terms of support.
If I have more support, I might do another city somewhere in Canada, but probably not
the US.
Well, okay.
So if some listeners are truly motivated to launch their own Christmas vegan market and
want to reach out to you, would you be open to hear their request and maybe have a collaboration
with them?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I'm always open to that.
I can certainly have based on my experience, I can share what I know.
And if it makes sense to collaborate, I would probably be more hands off.
But yeah, I'm totally open to that potential collaboration.
If someone out there is in another city in the US, I don't know, in LA or something,
and they want to do a vegan Christmas market.
Sure, you know, reach out to me and we can discuss it.
If you don't want to, we can also edit this out of the interview.
I mean, initially, I really wanted to do New York, LA, Toronto, Montreal.
But because I realized the madness of that, I took LA away.
I did New York.
But even that was a lot, you know, so and I'd rather have an event that's really, you
know, like where I can fully be there and fully participate in all its aspects than,
you know, trying to do too many at the same time.
And, you know, so yeah, I mean, I'm open if there's a collaboration elsewhere, but I
wouldn't do it like just myself again in New York.
It was just madness.
Of course.
So, Anne, before we end this conversation, did you want to add something?
Well, I really hope that your listeners out there will drop by to visit us at the vegan
Christmas market in Montreal, or if you're in Toronto, then visit us in Toronto.
Yeah, I really hope you enjoy it.
And remember that we also have the spring event.
I don't remember the date off the top of my head, but it's going to be in the end of May,
I believe.
So it's just an extension of the vegan central theme of vegan products.
And yeah, it's called Vega Palooza.
That's the spring event.
I would love to have you on again to talk about vegan Palooza.
It sounds amazing.
I don't know why I did not hear about it sooner.
Yeah, it was our first edition, you know, and we try to keep it small.
I try to keep it small.
So yeah, we had less vendors, but it was actually we actually had more visitors at that event
than the Christmas one before that.
So in that sense, it was encouraging.
But yes, I really hope to have have it grow more and more.
Great.
And thank you so much for having been a guest on this show and for having shared so much
about your event, your journey.
And yeah, this was such a pleasant conversation.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
And thank you for what you're doing.
I mean, to have a podcast that's centralized on vegan products and vegan people and vegan
events.
That's just amazing.
And I'm really happy that you're doing this.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, everyone, for listening.
And thank you so much for being a friend of this show.
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