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Hello everyone, my name is Ryan and you're listening to The Vegan Report. If you are an

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ethical vegan and you care to do more to end animal abuse, then this podcast is for you.

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Every Tuesday, discover passionate, thought-provoking and inspiring vegan leaders from all walks of life

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who will inspire you to take action. If you are listening to this podcast, chances are

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you have watched undercover footage of how farm animals are treated. Those pictures and videos are

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violent, shocking and can even be traumatizing. But what is certain is that those images never

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leave you indifferent. They force you for a moment to face an evil which has been actively

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hidden from your sight. Well, have you ever wondered how that footage is produced? Who is

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behind the camera and what does it cost to capture a photo of that ugliness? Today, we are going to

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answer all of those questions as we are in the company of Nathalie Bartoszek, an animal rights

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activist who has filmed one of the worst, most wicked scenes of animal abuse out there when,

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When on December 7th, 2019, she infiltrated a pig farm here in Quebec about an hour drive from where I

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live. Nathalie, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here.

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Nathalie Bartoszek Hi, Ryan. Thank you so much for welcoming

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Hi, Ryan. Thank you so much for welcoming me onto your platform to have this conversation.

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Ryan Of course. So, Nathalie, those images of animal exploitation are at the center of your

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activism and commitment to the cause of animal rights. Last episode, we covered the work of the

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Montreal chapter of Anonymous for the Voiceless, who exposes that footage openly in the streets

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to confront the convictions and dietary choices of the general public. Now, you are one of the

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co-founders of the Montreal chapter of Anonymous for the Voiceless. Not only that, but the very

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reason why you are vegan has to do with watching the famous or infamous documentary Earthlings.

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Can you recount that experience for us? Nathalie Bartoszek

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Yes. It was sort of silly at first because I was on, of all websites, Ellen DeGeneres's website.

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She was vegan at the time, and she had a list of films that she recommended on one portion of her

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site. I was bored, and I saw a movie that was called Earthlings listed there. And to me,

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the title sounded like something like David Attenborough-ish, sort of like our planet,

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those documentaries that he makes about life on our planet. So, I thought Earthlings sounded

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sort of like that, which was what I was in the mood for. I had no idea what I was getting myself

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into when I pressed play that day. I remember stopping it halfway through and just crying and

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sobbing. And I think I was yelling at the screen, why, why, why? Somehow, I managed to press play

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and watch the rest of it. But that was the first moment of lifting the veil, so to speak,

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of everything that I had been lied to about and everything I just had no idea about, like most

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people, in regards to what we're doing to animals, how brutal and horrible and immoral and abusive.

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It is. Yes. In my personal experience, after watching that documentary, I felt like asking

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for forgiveness, actually. So, before that, did you have any inclination toward animal rights or

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a certain love for animals? Yeah, I always loved animals. I mean, not everybody who becomes a

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vegan animal rights activist cares about animals, and you don't need to. But for me, well, I'll

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elaborate on that. You don't need to because it doesn't matter how you feel about animals. You

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only need to understand that they don't deserve to be unnecessarily harmed or abused, obviously,

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exploited in any way. But for me, I always loved them. I had a lot of pets growing up, and

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they always brought me so much joy. I love connecting with them. I think they're beautiful

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and wonderful and innocent. It was always something I thought I cared about. But then,

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in practice, of course, I was like everyone else, just blindly consuming their bodies.

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It was such a rude awakening when I finally realized what I was part of, what I was contributing to.

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What do you say to people who say that those images are not effective at converting people

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to our cause, to veganism, who doubt the power of that footage?

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I think that footage is the most powerful thing we have in our arsenal. Absolutely. You can't deny

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those images. You can't deny the truth of what's happening. These images are garnered by undercover

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activists who risk their freedom, sometimes even their lives, going into these dangerous situations,

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these horrible, horrible places that leave them with PTSD and other issues.

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To get these images to tell the truth of what's really happening to animals, and when you see

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those images, how can you argue with those? People have excuses about why they don't want to

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stop eating animals, but when you show them those images, how can you... They're so moving. They're

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so heartbreaking. It's what did it for me. It's what's done it, changing people's hearts and minds

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for most people that I've spoken to in the movement. Also, I see it happening all the time

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in my work with AV. We watch the change happening right there on the spot. We see it on their faces.

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They cry. They react with shock. They turn away. It's undeniably effective. I can't understand why

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anybody would... Excuse me. I can't understand why anybody would ever think otherwise.

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I think the logic is it's offensive. It's offensive to people to watch that footage,

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and all they're going to get from that experience is just being disgusted, yes, but being turned

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off from anything that has to do with thinking about animal exploitation. I guess that's how I

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think about their argument. Yeah, perhaps. Anyone with a good heart and a logical mind can look at

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that and understand that it's so unbelievably abusive and cruel, and also just that it's logically

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unnecessary. We know today that we don't need to be doing this to them. We can thrive and survive

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without harming any animals, at least in the developed world.

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So you watched the documentary Earthlings. You decided to become vegan.

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No. Sorry to cut you off, but I did not immediately. I wish I could say that I watched

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it and I went straight vegan. I didn't. It took me a long time. It was quite a learning curve.

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I wish I could say I did it sooner. I think most vegans feel like they're not going to be vegan.

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But it took a few years after that. Sorry to interrupt there.

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Oh no, it's okay. Why did it take so much time before making the transition?

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I just didn't know how to get my nutrients, feed myself, give up all these things that I had spent

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my life consuming and enjoying and feeling. I just didn't know how to get my nutrients, feed myself,

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that I had spent my life consuming and enjoying and feeling comfortable with. I didn't know what

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to do. I didn't know how to get there. So I did it in stages, giving up this. I think right after

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that documentary, I just said, okay, I'm not eating pigs and cows anymore. I'm not doing that

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anymore. A little later, I said, okay, I'm not eating chicken anymore. Then it was, okay, I'm

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not going to eat seafood anymore. I was a big seafood fan. So for me, that one felt hard,

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but I did it and I was proud of myself. Then I got to vegetarian. I thought, okay, I'm good.

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This is good for me. This is as far as I need to go. I didn't know about the dairy industry.

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I didn't know about the egg industry. I was actually walking down Saint Laurent Boulevard

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and passing by our famous smoked meat shop here, which always has a line out the door.

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And there were some activists in front of it. I had never done activism. I didn't know any activists,

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but there were some people there with signs protesting this smoked meat place. And I said

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to myself, oh, these are my people. This is great. Even though I wasn't an activist,

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but these are people who didn't eat meat. I'm like, oh, this is amazing. So I go up to one of them

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and I shake their hand. I say, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for doing this.

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And the person says, oh, you're welcome. Are you vegan? And I said, no, I'm vegetarian. And he

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says to me, oh, you're not helping anybody. And I thought, what? What do you mean I'm not helping

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anybody? Because I felt like I had done so much already. I'd given up so much. So I was actually

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angry walking away from this person. I was bothered by what he said, that I hadn't done any good after

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everything that I'd given up, after all that I'd changed in my life. But it stayed with me.

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And I went home and I think he had given me some videos to watch on YouTube. It was the dairy is

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scary and the egg video as well that Aaron Janis made. And I watched those and that was it.

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That was what did it for me. That made me go vegan. That's truly amazing, which also proves

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the point that sometimes you need to upset people to trigger change in their lives.

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Sometimes. I mean, I don't think it's necessary to be, pardon my language, a complete asshole about

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it. But I do think it's necessary to be, and this is the ethos of AV as well, to be direct,

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to not sugarcoat it, to just be a direct medium of the truth, tell it as it is. And I think people

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will respect you for that and it will stay with them. So you mentioned those people and how you

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thought about them as your people. Yeah. At some point you decided to join them. So what made you

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take that extra step from just being vegan to becoming a vegan activist? Honestly, it was

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right after that, right after I spoke to that person. I don't even know. I can't picture their

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face in my head. Maybe they're a friend of mine now and I don't even realize it, you know? But

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after I met this person, they said that to me. I went home, I educated myself, I decided to be

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vegan. Basically, I don't know, it was probably like the next week I decided, okay, I really do

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want these to be my people. I really do want to have other vegans in my life. I didn't know any

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vegans, not one. So I decided to go on Facebook. It's almost, it's funny to me. I go into the

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search bar and I just typed in vegan. I just wanted to see what came up. And the very first

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thing that came up was there was a dinner being planned at O'Veeve, which is the first vegan

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restaurant that ever existed in Montreal. I think it's been, I don't know, 20 years or maybe more.

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No. And it was being hosted by this gentleman. Oh, I can't remember his name now. I'm so sorry

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if he's watching this because it started with Jay. It's been a long time since we've spoken.

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I think it was Jesse, but I'm not sure. He had posted this event that anyone was welcome to join

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to go and just meet other vegans. And that sounded great. But it said that the date to

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confirm had passed. So I sent him a private message and I said, is it too late? I don't know

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any vegans. Can I please come? And he said, yeah, sure. No problem. We'll call the restaurant and

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accommodate you. So I went and I sat with about 20 different vegans at a long table. And it was a

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really nice experience. And I learned through that dinner about activism, more about what was

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happening in the city. And from there, I just networked and found out what was happening. It

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started mostly with fur protests, those sorts of events. And then I heard about AV and I wanted

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to know if there was a chapter in the city. So I looked it up online and there wasn't one. But I

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saw that someone named Kareem Samra was starting to sort of mobilize this. And he was going to have a

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meeting with people who were interested in starting the chapter. So I went to this meeting and

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when Gusta had its own shop, we went and we sat in there. I think there were about 10 of us. And we

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just sat in a circle and sort of brainstormed. And then after that meeting, I reached out to him

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personally and said, listen, do you want some help getting this off the ground? What have you

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already done? What can I do for you? So he had already gotten the TVs and set up the harnesses

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and the console with the battery. He'd done all of that. It was all in his pocket. So generous.

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So I asked him what still needed to be done. I got some masks, I got the signs printed, and then we

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had our first event and we had a really great turnout. And it's been six years now. And we're

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having today is International Cube Day, by the way, it's a very special event. We have an event

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starting in just a few hours. And it's been wonderful. The community is great. We're very

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lucky to have a beautiful community here and AV is going strong.

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That's amazing. Can you share with us some inspiring stories? You mentioned some of the

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reaction of people to that footage, but you spent so much time talking with people in the streets

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and doing those cube of truths. So can you share with us some stories of meeting people and

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converting them to veganism?

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Absolutely. So over the years, I have done a lot of outreach. I don't do as much anymore,

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because as an organizer, you're not actually supposed to do very much outreach, supposed to

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just focus on your organizer duties. But sometimes because we have four organizers, we're still able

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to take turns doing that on the day. For myself, I mean, the best conversations, it sounds very

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backwards to maybe to some people, but the best ones are where people cry. It's kind of like

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a comical, but if you get a cryer, it was a good conversation. Because it just means that you

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touched them so much. You really, really got the message across. You really changed their heart to

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the point where they were moved physically, where it's led to even a hug and them really expressing

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that they want to be vegan and wanting to know exactly how they do that and gratefully accepting

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our closing card, which is what we give them at the end and the resources they need.

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Sometimes it comes easily. The person that you're talking to, they have so much empathy for

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animals already, so it's not hard to get them there. Sometimes it's very hard to get them there,

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and they really push back. They throw every excuse that they have, and they're like,

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they throw every excuse they can think of at you. They really try to challenge what you're saying

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because they need to make sure that you're right. They need to make sure that they haven't left any

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stone unturned because this is something that they really are invested in. This is something that they

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themselves participate in every day, three times a day. They're not making it easy on you, but

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they're trying not to make it easy on you. Honestly, if you've done these conversations a lot,

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it's always easy in a sense because there is no excuse. There is no justification to continue

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doing what we're doing. There isn't one. I have been in so many conversations. I have watched other

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people have their conversations online and in person, and there's never been a gotcha moment

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from anyone we've ever spoken to. One day there was this child watching the screen, and he was crying.

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Some people think it's wrong of us to show this footage in the public so that children have to

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watch it. I get their perspective, but at the same time, this is their world too, and they're going

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to be growing up into it, and they deserve the truth as well. A lot of children understand

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that this is so wrong and that they don't want anything to do with it once they learn about it.

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They're stronger than you think. I have had conversations with children where they had all

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the right questions. They didn't even cry. They understood, and they walked away wanting to ask

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their parents to buy different food and not hurt animals anymore. Some of the most beautiful

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conversations I've had were with children, but anyway, sorry, I'm getting on a tangent. I saw

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this child crying, and I went over, and he was sobbing and looking at the screen. I think it was

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the pigs going into the gas chambers, and his mother was down at his level and hugging him.

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He looked like he was maybe five or six. He was saying something to his mother in Spanish.

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I couldn't understand what he was saying, but I went over and I said to her,

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I hope he's okay. May I ask you what he's saying? She looks up at me with a slight smile,

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and she says, he's saying to me that if he ever finds the people who hurt these animals,

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he's going to kill them. He said he wanted to grow up someday and stop the people that are hurting

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these animals, or he will hurt them. She was not angry with us. She was grateful for this

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interaction that her child was having for this experience, the expression that was coming out

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of him, this beautiful empathy that was flowing out of him. She thanked us for being able to

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do that. She thanked us for being there. Even though I didn't end up having a full conversation

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with them, they had to leave. That short interaction is the one that pops into my mind

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first when you ask me about that. It was really beautiful.

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Thank you for sharing that story. I was recently editing a video for Instagram with Liz White,

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who talked about bear hunting. I was looking at pictures of people taking their pictures with

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the bear, the dead bear, because bears are considered the trophy animal. You hunt them,

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you kill them, and then you take pictures with them. There were so many pictures with kids.

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You have the mother or the father or the couple, the family unit, and the kids around the corpse of

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that dead bear. That was incredibly shocking to think that those innocent children are conditioned

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to this is normal. I will never be one to blame activists for exposing children to that

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footage, because that's the truth. Anyway, people are going hunting with their children

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and bonding over that sadistic experience. We should at least put something against that.

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We should have an initiative against that, reaching out to those children.

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I'm always touched by those stories, by vegans in general, but also animal activists, because

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you're going against a cultural conditioning that goes back hundreds of years. You're going against

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the government, which is captured by this animal industry. You're going against sometimes religious

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beliefs. It's amazing. It's truly amazing. Vegans and animal rights activists have all my admiration.

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Thank you. You have mine as well, really, for what you do, genuinely. Thank you so much.

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Thank you for saying that, Natalie. You're not just an activist, as you mentioned. You're an

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organizer. You are a leader among activists. As such, how do you mobilize vegans around taking

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action? This whole podcast is about inspiring vegans to take action. I wonder if you have any

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insight or wisdom on that topic. I never intended to lead the community.

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When I saw the opportunity to help get something off the ground, I just stepped in and did it.

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I feel a little uncomfortable being called a leader, because it sounds

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so... I don't know. How do you mobilize people? I guess, for me, when I think about

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the Cube of Truth events that we do, which is the most of the activism that I do,

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the most important aspect of my role as organizer is to make my teammates, my volunteers,

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know that they are so important to this movement, that they are so appreciated, that they

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belong. This is where they belong. They belong with us. We see you. We love you. We appreciate you.

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We are all in this together. I think when you put that out there into the community, all that love

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and all that appreciation and all that camaraderie, it clues them. It makes them want to keep coming

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back. Even though they know the movement is so important, if they don't feel that from their

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leaders, if they don't feel that... I don't know. It sounds so corny, but I want to call it love.

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There's something that... It feels like a family to me, and I want people to realize that they are

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part of this family, as corny as that sounds. It's just how I feel about it in my heart.

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And if the others feel that as well, I feel like that will keep us together and it will keep this

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movement stronger. So, yeah, that's the best way I can explain it, I guess. It's a beautiful answer.

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Thank you.

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So let's talk about what happened on December 7th when you decided to infiltrate that pig farm.

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Why did you decide to participate in that action?

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Well, there's a number... Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

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Well, I was just going to add, and why did you target that particular pig farm?

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Yeah. Okay. So first question, I was invited privately through a private app to participate

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in this action. And the ideas frightened me at first, because I had never done anything like that

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in my life before. But I knew the importance of civil disobedience, and I understood that this

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was a peaceful action. And so I was interested, but I was scared and I didn't commit right away.

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I had to think about it. And then I heard from a friend of mine that they had committed to doing

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this action, my friend, Jenny Donovan. I had not known Jenny for very long, but we had become close.

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She had invited me to go and talk to her MP once. We had gone together to talk to... Oh, no,

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I can't remember his name now. The one that was an astronaut, Mark. What is his last name? I'm sorry.

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I'm not good with names.

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Gavno, maybe it is. Mark Gavno. That might be it.

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Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah. He was an astronaut, then he became an MP. And she wanted to go and talk to

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him. It was for Nation Rising. Nation Rising was a campaign where they wanted you to go and talk to

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your MP more about the environmental side of why animal agriculture is so harmful. So we went and

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we spoke to her MP and I got to know her better and we came close. And so when I heard that she

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was going into this farm, I had this emotional reaction and I felt I don't want her to go in

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without me. If she's brave enough to do this, I want to be brave enough to do this with her

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and beside her. I didn't really know the other people that were participating. I didn't know

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who they all were. I didn't know any of them as well as her. But anyway, there was the option

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to go inside or be on the outside team. There was an outside team as well. I could have made

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that decision to still do the action and be on the outside team, but she had decided to go inside.

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And I decided that that was, I don't know, in my heart, I decided that that was what I wanted to

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do as well. As risky as it was. And what triggered that action? So I guess there was something

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particularly bad happening with that pig farm and action needed to be taken in that case.

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Sorry. Yeah. So interesting answer to that is that I didn't know where I was going. I

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was not part of the organizing of this. I did not even know really who was part of the organizing

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of this. A lot of the times when they have these actions, they don't let the organizer reveal

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themselves because it's better to have deniability and not have that information leak out because the

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organizers usually targeted more harshly in court. They were trying to get that information from us

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in the courtroom. So I did not know exactly whose idea this action was. And I didn't even know

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the identity of the location where we were going, the town we were going to, or the farm,

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or even what type of animal was being exploited on that farm. All I knew was this was a peaceful

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action. And that I was going to be driving there, you know, with a biosecurity suit and with these

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people that I had met. We had one meeting to talk about it, where we got the equipment that we needed

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for the day. And then we did it. And yeah. So let's talk about the details,

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the logistics of going there. What happened on that fateful day?

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I think I woke up at two in the morning, if you can call that waking up. I don't even know if I

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slept. I can't remember, but I woke up and I got dressed and I walked to this park. We were also

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submit at Park Lafontaine at 2.30, I think in the morning. And so we met there. There were a number

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of cars already and we divided ourselves into the cars so that we could carpool to Saint Hyacinth

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or Saint Hyacinth in English, which is where the farm was. We didn't know where we were going,

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only the drivers knew where we were going. It was still pitch black when I was walking to this park

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to get to the other people. And I remember thinking to myself, what am I doing? This is crazy.

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Waking up early in the morning to do this. I have no idea what I'm walking into. All I know is that

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it's a peaceful action and I feel like this is important and I'm going to do this. But I was

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scared and it felt mind boggling that I was walking into this situation. So then we drive

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there, we leave at 3 a.m., we get there at four. And again, it's still pitch dark when we get there.

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It's the middle of nowhere countryside farmland. There are no streetlights. It is just black.

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Sorry to interject, Nathalie, but Saint Hyacinth is actually the city where you can find one of,

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I think, the biggest vet hospital for farm animals in Quebec, which I find interesting that

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this is happening where there's this big vet hospital and vet school to, I think, most

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veterinarians in Quebec who go into the agribusiness, go get their training in Saint Hyacinth.

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Really? I didn't even know that. I've never heard that before.

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I think so, yeah.

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Yeah, it's a strange contradiction of veterinary practice for most people that are veterinarians

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because most people eat animals and then the school is in a place where they're exploiting

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so many animals. I mean, the whole society is just so contradictory, isn't it? But that's an

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interesting fact I didn't know about. Wow. So we arrive there in the dark and I'm sitting in the

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back of this car and the people that I'm in the car with, they leave to go to another car. I don't

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remember why. So I'm sitting there in the back and I put on my biosecurity suit and I'm given these

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little booties to put on my feet. And by the way, I'm also wearing a diaper. We're all wearing

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diapers because there are no bathrooms in there. And if you have to go, I did not have to use mine,

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but if you have to go, there's nowhere for you to go in there. We're going to be in there for hours.

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We're going to be with the police after. So we actually wore those just in case. So I'm sitting

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in the back of this car in the middle of nowhere in the dark in a diaper, in a biosecurity suit.

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I'm alone. Someone has just ran in the dark to the farm, ran top speed to go and check out

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the doors are still unlocked if we can still go in before we all go. And I'm just thinking like,

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what am I doing here? This is crazy. But then we're given the go ahead that we're going to

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assemble. And the first thing we want to do is we want to take a picture.

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So a lot of people have seen this picture. It's been the cover photo for our event,

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our court date event pages and that sort of thing. But we're in the dark. We're underneath the sign

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outside of the farm says Poor Greg across the top. Poor Greg is the name of the farm because poor

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is pork in French and their name was Greg walk. It was a family run farm by the Greg was.

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So anyway, we're at this farm and there's this car and their headlights are going to be put

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onto us because there's no other light there. It's only we take the photos, someone to put their car

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so that the lights are shining on us and we line up and we have some piglets in our arms. Some

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dead piglets, they're not alive, they're dead. And some masks, some pig masks, pig, they look like

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we're like pig face masks. And we take the picture. And then it's time to go in. So we go towards the

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door. We get there, our hearts are all beating fast. Most of us, I think, I think all of us, I can't,

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I don't think any of us, no, maybe most of us, almost all of us have never done this before.

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I've never gone into a farm before. And we open the door and we walk in and it's just shocking.

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It's just, it just hits you. The smell, the atmosphere, and the eyes of all these mother

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pigs, these sows that are in cages the size of their own bodies. We were in the gestation area,

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gestation, gestation or farrowing, no, excuse me, the farrowing area where they have their babies

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next to them. And they are still in a cage the size of their body. And then there's another cage

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for their babies next to them. So they can't turn around, they can only stand up and lie down. But

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the moment you go in, these huge animals with these very human-like eyes are looking at you.

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And you just can't believe what you're seeing. You just can't believe that this is legal.

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You walk through the door and there they are right in your face, in caged with their babies. Their

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babies are also dead, some of them in the cages, dead babies in the hallways. The smell is just

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incredible. It's so, there's no windows, it's just dark in there. It just feels like some more out

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of a horror film. And it just got worse as we went on this farm, even though it was a local

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family-run farm, it had about 4,000 animals on it. We spent the next few hours going through every

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single section and carefully documenting everything that we saw. It was just, it was very shocking.

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It is definitely the worst place in the world I have ever been and will probably ever be.

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I'm even trying to explain how it felt to look at these animals. There were

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just so many, there was a variety of just horrible situations. There were the faring area,

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the gestation area, which is where they're being impregnated. And they're in cages,

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they have their own body there as well, on concrete. There was the area where they kept the males,

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the adult males, which was extremely filthy. And we could barely breathe in there. We couldn't

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understand how animals could breathe in there. There was the area where there were babies,

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babies that were too old to be with their mothers, but not old enough to be with the adults.

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And they were so overcrowded and so filthy and oppressive. Sorry, that's the word I was trying

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to find earlier and I couldn't find it for some reason. It was such an oppressive, horrible place.

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And all these little individuals, they were all so sweet and curious. And I was just so

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surprised that they were so kind and they wanted to come up to us. And I'm sorry, I'm still like,

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just, it's hard to talk about. It's hard to talk about. And I've been ranting for a long time now,

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so I think I'll stop it. Let me know what your next question is.

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It's okay. You're wearing a biohazard suit. What is the purpose of that?

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The purpose of that suit is, the point is to try to protect the animals from us and to try to protect

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us from them, to try not to contaminate their environment while we are documenting what we are

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doing. It's funny because when we were eventually discovered by the farmers, they didn't have any

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sort of protective gear on whatsoever, not the initial employee that found us and also not the

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owner of the farm that came in later. But we did wear that and we did do our best to wear gloves.

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But it was so filthy in there that it was actually quite difficult. The little booties we

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had on would get just soaked with feces and urine. I mean, and how do you not trudge that

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throughout the other areas? It was not set up in a way that was very biosecure at all. I mean,

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we didn't see stations where you should wash your hands or change your booties or anything like

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that. There was nothing like that on the farm. But we did our best. We did our best to protect

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ourselves and protect the animals. At that point, you were vegan for a number of years,

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and you had watched a lot of footage of animal exploitation. You were also an activist.

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Did that experience still change your outlook on animal rights and animal exploitation,

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your actions? Did it, I guess, change a bit your perception of what you were doing and

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what of your thoughts and beliefs around that? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I had, like you

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said, watched a lot of this footage before, but it's extremely different to be in the facility

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yourself, to look into the eyes of the victims, to have them look into yours, to see those

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individuals, to be there with them, to see them in their suffering. And to not be able to help,

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we had already decided that we weren't going to try to take any animals out, because that creates

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a much more difficult legal challenge of theft. We decided we were not going to do that. I don't

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know if we regret that or not collectively, but it was a decision we made before going in.

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But yes, absolutely. When I said that before I was sitting in the car and I was

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just feeling like, what am I doing here? I'm in the middle of nowhere wearing a diaper in the dark,

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about to go into a farm and break the law. What am I doing? I was scared before. By the end of

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our experience there, by the time we were sitting up against a wall in the gestation area, waiting

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to be arrested, my fear was gone. I had no second thoughts. I had no regrets. I had no more fear

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about being part of this action, about doing this sort of activism for animals. I felt its importance

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after really seeing for myself what these places are like and what the evil of animal agriculture

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really is, what it's really doing to innocent sentient beings by the billions every single day.

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Our action was peaceful. We didn't break anything. We didn't take anything. We didn't hurt anyone.

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All we wanted to do was expose that this horror is happening in our own backyard, in Quebec Farms.

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People always say, oh, it's not like that here. It's like that somewhere else when they see images

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of horrible places or just standard practices that happen to animals. They say, it's not like that

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here. It's not that bad. We wanted to show, yes, it is like that here. It is like that in Quebec.

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We wanted to expose these people. It's so important to do that. I feel the weight of that,

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obviously, so much more after being there and doing it myself. By the end, my fear was gone.

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I knew this was important. It just strengthened my resolve to do this action, strengthened my

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resolve in the movement and in my own choices in being part of it and dedicating my life to it,

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which I will continue to do in either legal or illegal ways for the rest of my life.

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Well, that was considered an illegal action. You mentioned how the owners of that farm,

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first the employee and then I think the owners, did you have any interaction with them when they

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surprised you in the middle of your action? Sort of, yes. We were sitting on the ground,

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lined up against the wall. We had already decided not to speak to them. The first thing that

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happened was there was a Guyanese man who had just actually, apparently it was his first day on the

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job. Quite an interesting first day for him. Gave him a bit of a shock. We were just sitting there.

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We weren't speaking or anything. He came around the corner from inside the farm. He was already

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inside and he came from one of the other farm rooms. He looked around the corner, this Guyanese

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man who was on his first day of the job and saw us and looked shocked and then left. He didn't say

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anything. He didn't come into the room, nothing. I'm assuming he just went straight to go get the

378
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:16,720
owner of the farm. The owner then came from an external door on the other side of the room that

379
00:43:16,720 --> 00:43:24,080
led to the outside, came in and just sort of, it felt like he was sort of puffing out his chest and

380
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:29,280
he was filming us and he was trying to, I don't know, intimidate us I felt like. He was just

381
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,520
asking us like, why are you here? Why won't you leave? What do you want from us? But the way that

382
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:38,400
he was saying it with his tone, it felt like he was trying to intimidate us. I don't know, but he

383
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:46,640
just asked us those questions and we didn't answer him. So he left and then he came back with the

384
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:54,640
police and the police came in. Oh, I think actually we answered one question. No, that was, sorry,

385
00:43:54,640 --> 00:44:01,040
it's a bit mixed. We only said that we spoke English, but we didn't want to speak to them

386
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:07,600
very much. We just wanted to sit down peacefully and wait to be arrested. So there was very little

387
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:13,520
interaction verbally with either the owner of the farm or the police when they arrived, but they

388
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:19,120
were there for a while, the police. It took them a while to get mobilized and organized to figure

389
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:36,080
out how to arrest 12 people. Yeah. I like the idea that the owner of that farm was doing his bad

390
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:46,560
business, his exploitation, profiting on the lives of those animals in the middle of nowhere,

391
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:56,800
thinking that no one is paying attention to his immoral behavior, but we are paying attention to

392
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:04,000
what you're doing. We know that you exist. And I guess this was a shock for him. This was a

393
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:10,880
great surprise to find himself exposed like that.

394
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:23,760
I really don't know how he feels about it. I hope that it had some effect to see himself and his

395
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:35,920
farm and his family's legacy through the eyes of activists and the court and the public as well,

396
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:44,320
maybe even from some of his peers, because I'm sure a lot of people in their community learned

397
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:50,560
about the action and we saw some of the footage that we took. I don't really know what kind of

398
00:45:50,560 --> 00:46:00,720
impact it has had. He did testify and he was quite defensive and adamant that it didn't seem like he

399
00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:05,840
had any remorse at the time, but I don't know if he would have wanted to show it to us if he did.

400
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:11,760
So I really don't know. I will say that the police that were there, there was definitely

401
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:18,880
mixed response. There was one woman who, while just sort of standing there, she looked at the pigs

402
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:25,360
that were sitting across from us while we were waiting to be arrested. And she looked at them

403
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:31,200
in their cages. And at some point, these pigs in the gestation crates, they can't move right.

404
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:40,400
They have no way to express their energy, to expel all this energy that they have as animals,

405
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:50,400
as sentient beings. They can't do anything except stand up and lie down. And so a few times that we

406
00:46:50,400 --> 00:47:00,240
were there, they all collectively started screaming. I have very affecting footage of them

407
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:06,560
just screaming at the top of their lungs and thrashing against the bars and foaming at the

408
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:12,000
mouth. And that started to happen while the police were there. It happened before,

409
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:18,480
while we were at the farm, not with anything that we did. We did not initiate it. They just start

410
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:23,120
to do that. We started to hear the screaming before we entered the room, when we entered and

411
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:28,560
found them all screaming. But anyway, what happened while the police were there, and

412
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:36,880
it was really affecting this one policewoman. You could see on her face that the empathy was coming

413
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:42,000
through. But then there was another policeman there who, when he walked in, said, oh, looks like

414
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:49,360
breakfast in here, had absolutely no empathy for those individuals in their cages, which is just

415
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,840
mind boggling to me that someone could look at that and have no empathy for those individuals,

416
00:47:54,400 --> 00:48:03,360
as if they have any less feeling, less suffering than other animals that we care for,

417
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:11,120
even in our own homes. You can even look at that and not see the injustice in it. It's just crazy

418
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:16,000
to me, but that's the world we live in. Humans are a mixed bag, and some of us have empathy,

419
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,480
and some of us just don't, unfortunately.

420
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:28,480
So you were arrested. And then following that, for about three years, you had to confront

421
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:38,720
to confront the judicial system, which went against you. Can you tell us a little bit more about

422
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:50,240
that, about that experience of the system going against you for having exposed that evil?

423
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:59,440
Yes. Well, it was very, it was, I had so many mixed emotions during that period. I was,

424
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:06,640
part of me was, obviously I have, and I said this in court when I gave my own personal statement to

425
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:13,680
the judge, I have no regrets about what I did, because it was peaceful, because it was necessary

426
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:20,080
to expose this place. It was civil disobedience, which has been very important with all social

427
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:30,640
justice movements throughout history. And I felt a sense of pride to be part of this action. And so

428
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:35,280
I tried to carry that with me and all the love from the community that we got, the vegan activist

429
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:42,480
community that we got going into this difficult criminal proceeding. But of course, being in the

430
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:52,080
courtroom and sitting there day after day after day, it was eight days, I think, of proceedings,

431
00:49:52,080 --> 00:50:02,720
and to sit there and to listen to the testimony from the farmers, the veterinarians, the police

432
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:12,720
people, most of which was negative towards us. And there were a lot of lies that they tried to

433
00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:17,760
tell about us. They tried to prove that we had done all these horrible things in the farm, that

434
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:23,360
we had changed the temperature, that we had left doors open, that we had let pigs out. They tried

435
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:31,200
to stay, like actually charge us with all of these things. And they told so many lies about what

436
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:37,200
happened on the day. The policeman that testified, one of the policemen that testified actually lied

437
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:44,480
about me, about how he had to arrest me. He said that he had to carry me from the floor all the way

438
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:51,680
to the car, which was actually completely incorrect. They picked me up and they did carry me, I think,

439
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:57,520
a few steps, maybe five steps. And then they yelled at me, they yelled, walk. And I put my feet down.

440
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,960
I was just trying to be obedient. They hadn't asked me to stand up. They hadn't asked me to do

441
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:05,280
anything. As soon as they said walk, I put my feet down. I walked the rest of the way out the door,

442
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:09,280
all the way to the car. This man said that he had to carry me all the way to the car.

443
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,640
There were so many things that they said that were just

444
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:23,120
hard to listen to. It was hard on the mind. It was hard on the heart. It was hard on the soul

445
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:30,960
to sit there and just listen so much. Our lawyers were so brave and so,

446
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:43,840
we were so lucky with our legal team. We had seven lawyers that were the crème de la crème

447
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:56,640
of the criminal justice system. We were very well represented and they did their best to defend us.

448
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:03,120
But ultimately, we were convicted. We were found guilty. And then we were all sentenced. After

449
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:07,840
that, we were found guilty of two criminal charges. It was technically three, but it

450
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:14,640
sort of turned into two because it was obstruction, breaking and entering, and mischief.

451
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:20,640
The mischief charge was actually amalgamated with the breaking and entering charge because the only

452
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,720
way that they can charge you with breaking and entering is if they can prove that you were there

453
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:30,400
on the premises to commit another crime. Otherwise, it's just trespassing. They had

454
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:35,200
to figure out what our crime was. They decided it was mischief, which to me and of course,

455
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:44,400
the rest of us who were on trial is crazy because what was mischievous about trying to expose an

456
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:53,600
injustice? We weren't there to ram sack the place or anything like that. We weren't there to...

457
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:03,120
We weren't a bunch of hooligans who were just trying to make a disturbance. We were there

458
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:10,160
to expose a horrible injustice. We tried to convey that as much as we could, but unfortunately,

459
00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:20,560
we were found guilty of it. Then we waited for our sentencing. We were given a sentence where

460
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:25,280
it was split. Half of us were given criminal records and half of us were not. We were all

461
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:30,240
also given community service, a little bit of money to pay. The sentencing could have been a

462
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:38,400
lot worse, but it could have been a lot better. Mixed feelings about that too. To summarize,

463
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:44,880
it was hard, but it was also beautiful sometimes because we had rallies outside of the courthouse.

464
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:52,160
Lots and lots of people from the community came to support us every single court day within the

465
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:56,800
actual criminal trial and outside of that, all the court dates we had over three and a half years.

466
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:04,400
We always had support. We always had hugs. We always had just so much love. We carried that

467
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,560
love in there. Actually, on the day of our sentencing, we were sitting... They put us in

468
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:12,000
the jury box because there were so many people that wanted to be in the courtroom all the time,

469
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:21,600
people from the public, journalists, other people. They would put the 11 of us... It was 11 of us

470
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:25,840
because one of us was a minor, so she had her own trial. They put the 11 of us in the jury box.

471
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:34,080
On the last day of our sentencing, we were sitting there with... We all had a rose. We all had a rose

472
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:40,080
in our lap. All of us women knew it. It was... Sorry, excuse me. There was 10 women and one

473
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:48,960
non-binary American person on trial. It was just beautiful. I felt like we were all sitting there

474
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:53,520
with the love of the community in our hands, in the symbol of that rose.

475
00:54:53,520 --> 00:55:02,560
A lot of the people that were there to support us, they were in a separate room

476
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:08,000
watching because the room could only accommodate so many people. Some of the people weren't even

477
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,400
allowed in because they were wearing shorts because it was summertime and apparently you're

478
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:15,280
not allowed to wear shorts in the courtroom, so they had to make an exception for them and

479
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:20,480
let them in another room. Anyway, they were all watching us on a video screen over there. When

480
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:26,320
we came out of the courtroom after having the sentence read to us, they were all there waiting

481
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:31,680
at the door when we came out and they all cheered and clapped for us. It was really beautiful,

482
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:39,520
lots of hugs. It was extremely stressful. It was extremely difficult. It was extremely long,

483
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:44,400
all those years of not knowing how this was going to turn out, but it was also extremely beautiful

484
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:50,240
and meaningful. It's one of the best experiences, if not the best experience I've ever gone through

485
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:55,200
in my life overall. The most powerful, meaningful, and important experiences I've ever had.

486
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:06,560
And that farm, I think that farm was close, was shut down. Am I right?

487
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:12,880
Yes, you are. We only learned about that on the first day of court proceedings. It was announced

488
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:18,320
by the Crown. The Crown is the representative for the people who own the farm.

489
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:22,880
They're the government representative because it's a criminal proceeding. It's the Crown who

490
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:29,040
represents the other side. They announced that the farm actually closed and we were very shocked to

491
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:34,320
hear that. That was never our intention. We of course can't be upset about it. Of course,

492
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:40,560
we want the farm to close, but we never expected that that would happen just from exposing it. It

493
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:49,440
basically happened because the MAPAC decided to go and they were tipped off by someone and they

494
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:55,040
went to go and investigate because they very rarely do inspections on these farms. They should

495
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:59,360
do them all the time, but they don't. They just don't. So they went to do an inspection. They

496
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:04,560
realized the farm was extra horrible because they're all horrible, but this one was extra

497
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:09,920
horrible. And I think that's part of the reason why they shut down. They also had their own

498
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:16,800
... They already had a rotavirus outbreak that was quite widespread, I believe. So that was part of

499
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:25,600
it. And by the way, the veterinarian who testified said that it was very unlikely that the rotavirus

500
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:32,560
was there because of us being in there. So that was not something that they were able to blame on

501
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:39,920
us, though they did try. But yeah, the farm was closed and we are very happy about that.

502
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:50,000
And also the judge said about, well, I will read from an article called The Activist in the Canada

503
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:57,040
11 case convicted for entering a pig farm in Canada to expose animal cruelty have now been

504
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:07,280
sentenced after more than three years of waiting. It's an article from Jordi Kacmichana, who had his

505
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:16,080
fair share of struggles with the judicial system as an animal rights activist. I think we talked

506
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:25,440
about him on this podcast, but he wrote a beautiful article on your judicial struggles.

507
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:34,320
And there he quotes the judge, Justice Marco Labrie, who himself said the videos the activists

508
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:39,920
recorded were impactful, poignant, troubling, and disturbing.

509
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:51,200
Yes. And it was very appreciated to hear that from the judge because a lot of judges will not

510
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:58,880
go that far. They don't need to, right? It's difficult because the criminal proceedings

511
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:03,440
are supposed to be solely based on what we did wrong, which was break and entering. It doesn't

512
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:09,840
necessarily need, I mean, obviously the intent of why we are there, we think that's important.

513
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:16,640
But some judges don't. Some judges don't think that it matters what our goal was. All that matters is

514
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:24,160
that we broke the law and that's wrong, end of story. But this judge thankfully had more of a

515
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:34,080
heart and was willing to allow the footage to be played in the courtroom itself. And to say these

516
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:44,240
things in his statement that he recognizes that this place was horrible, was disturbing,

517
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:53,360
and that the images were poignant and affecting. And I think overall we did get a good judge,

518
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:59,680
even though he didn't let all of us off. I felt like he did the best that he felt like he could.

519
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:11,280
He really took his time with it. And I don't think we could have asked for much better in terms of

520
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:17,600
who we got in that seat. But yeah, we were allowed to play the footage in the courtroom. And actually,

521
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:24,080
a funny story, on the first day of court proceedings, it was actually the other side

522
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:31,200
who played all of our videos, which to us was very strange. This is the evidence we have against them

523
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:38,720
that makes them, that bates them in a negative light. So why would they want to play the footage

524
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:44,960
in a negative light? So why would they want to play it? And it was shocking for me because a lot

525
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:52,000
of it was my footage. They had gone to my Facebook page and taken all of the videos from my page.

526
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:59,680
So here I am watching my own videos being played by the Crown, by the prosecution.

527
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:07,680
And I think why they did that is they wanted to get ahead of it. They wanted that shocking

528
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:12,800
imagery to be in our minds from the start so that by the end, it's not so shocking anymore.

529
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:16,800
And it doesn't have the same effect on the judge. It doesn't have the same effect.

530
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:27,760
It's been absorbed. It's marinated in the brain. It's not as damning anymore if maybe it's had time

531
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:32,400
to sit. So I think they were trying to get ahead of it by saying, yes, this is what it was like in

532
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:38,640
there, but that's not the point. The point is they broke the law, period. Yeah.

533
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:47,120
LR I think again, I mean, I cannot watch Earthlings even after all of those years of being a vegan.

534
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:53,520
And after all that footage I have watched, I mean, I've never grown indifferent to that.

535
01:01:53,520 --> 01:02:04,560
So it's a weird psychological reflection, I guess, but it's smart in a way, in an evil genius way.

536
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:06,080
But yeah.

537
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:12,880
FF Yeah, yeah. I think that must have been their ploy. But I mean, those images are horrible.

538
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:18,960
And I'm sure that the judge, he had them on file. And so he probably watched them when he was

539
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:23,680
deliberating after all the proceedings were over. So I don't know if that actually would have been

540
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:32,480
as effective, but I'm glad we were allowed to play them. There was another court proceeding,

541
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:40,880
another action and trial out west with Amy Serrano and Nick Schaeffer and Jeff, I forget his last

542
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:44,800
name, Regier, I think. And there was one other and I can't remember his name right now. Those were

543
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:49,680
the organizers of this action where there were actually 200 activists who went into a pig farm

544
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:56,720
that did exactly the same thing as us. It was very peaceful. But 200, I don't know how you get those

545
01:02:56,720 --> 01:03:05,440
numbers. We had 12, okay. They had 200 people, go BC, willing to sign up for an action like this.

546
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:08,960
And only the four organizers, of course, were brought to court because they can't bring 200

547
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:15,520
people to court. And they weren't allowed to show any of their footage to talk about the animals

548
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:19,920
at all. Amy, when she was giving her statement, she wanted to talk a bit about the animals. She

549
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:24,480
thought it was important to express why she was there. Why did they do this? The judge shut her

550
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:28,080
down the moment she started to mention the animals. He said, you can't talk about that in here.

551
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:33,440
So she decided to not even give the rest of her statement. She was shocked. She thought she had

552
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:36,640
the right to say her piece. Normally you have the right to say your piece. But she was shocked.

553
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:40,240
She had the right to say her piece. Normally you have the right to say your piece when you

554
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:43,920
are addressing the judge. He would not even let them talk about the animals whatsoever.

555
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:49,120
And they were sentenced to jail. They were sentenced to one month in jail. Two of them were.

556
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:53,040
Two of them were let off. Amy and Nick were sentenced to one month in jail. They are appealing

557
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:59,680
that decision. But it just goes to show the judge that you get really matters. It's actually better

558
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:05,360
to get a jury when you think about it because the collective minds of 12 people that are just normal

559
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:12,720
citizens I think are a safer bet than the mind of one who may or may not be influenced, biased,

560
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:24,080
corrupted, who knows. So yeah. Well, that's a truly inspiring story. And I want to just take

561
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:31,440
time to say thank you. Thank you for having taken that action and for having exposed what happened

562
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:39,760
in that farm and participated in shutting down that operation. So thank you for your bravery, Natalie.

563
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:48,720
Thank you very much for saying that. There are people out there that do much more brave things

564
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:57,200
than me. Than us, I should say. We did this together. I don't know if I'll ever do it again.

565
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:01,360
But of course I have no regrets. But I mean, there are people out there that go into farms

566
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:10,560
all the time and they go in there either undercover as employees, which I think is hardest because you

567
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:15,920
have to pretend like you're okay with it. The whole time you work there, you have to pretend like

568
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:22,160
you're on board with this. You can't cry. You can't show any emotion. You can't help them.

569
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:27,760
You can't save them. You can't do anything but pretend like you're one of the evil people next

570
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:31,520
to you. And I'm going to call them evil because honestly there are people who work in slaughterhouses.

571
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:36,320
This is not an exaggeration, who get off on what's happening in front of them. There are people who

572
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:40,160
actually get off on hurting animals and they have a great outlet for that. They can work in a farm

573
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:45,600
or a slaughterhouse and see it every day and inflict that pain every day. And you have to stand next

574
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:49,760
to those people. I hope that's the minority, by the way. I know there's a lot of people in slaughterhouses

575
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:53,920
who work there because they have no other options. They have to feed their families. They are

576
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:59,760
immigrants. Actually after the Syrian war, a lot of the refugees that came to Canada, they were

577
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:04,160
given slaughterhouse jobs because they didn't speak the language. They didn't have skills that were

578
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:10,160
transferable here or even if they were doctors over in their country, they're not allowed to be

579
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:13,760
doctors here. They have to go through a process. So anyway, they were given slaughterhouse jobs.

580
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:19,200
I saw on a government website, I saw the paperwork that said that that's what they were given.

581
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:27,440
Imagine coming from your war-torn country and you're being asked to mutilate and exploit and

582
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:34,400
slaughter innocent sentient beings every single day. And that's your new reality. So we have saved

583
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:41,520
you from your previous PTSD-inducing situation and now we're throwing you into a new one.

584
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:46,640
And those people have to be there every day too. But sorry, I'm going on a tangent.

585
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:50,640
There are people undercover who have to pretend like they're okay with this and those are the real

586
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:54,560
heroes of this movement. I don't think there's anyone in this movement doing anything more

587
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:58,880
difficult than that. I really don't. And there are people that go in without anyone knowing.

588
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:02,800
And they go in, they take animals out and they bring them to sanctuaries. They go in and they

589
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:09,920
try to find someone to help. Those people, I love them. I don't know that many of them, but I'm

590
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:16,880
tearing up even talking about them. I did it once. I went in there once for maybe, I think it was six

591
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:21,520
hours or something like that, six, eight hours. I don't remember actually. I don't remember how

592
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:28,880
long I was in that farm, but they do that all the time. And I send so much love to them.

593
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:42,800
I think that's a general feelings we have as vegans. We want this evil to stop and whoever

594
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:50,000
is participating in a consequent way to end this evil, we feel so grateful toward those people

595
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:59,600
because it gives us hope when we look around and the world is against us in this fight. To see that

596
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:11,360
level of bravery and heroism, it is so inspiring and hopeful. So yeah. So Natalie, do you have

597
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:20,960
any plans for the future? Any new initiatives you are working on and you might want to mention?

598
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:35,520
Yeah, I do other things. I mean, I'm organizing a yearly march and event protest on Parliament

599
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:40,320
Hill. I'm from Ottawa originally and there's not a whole lot of activism that happens there.

600
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:44,480
I've never seen any animal rights marches in Ottawa before. So I decided to start organizing

601
01:08:44,480 --> 01:08:49,360
one where I even take a busload of people from Montreal with me over to Ottawa. We rent an

602
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:54,320
actual charter bus and we go over there. We've been at once already. It was a beautiful day.

603
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:58,320
We were supposed to do it again a few days ago actually on the 28th of October, but we canceled.

604
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:04,160
I didn't feel prepared. I felt like the community was not feeling very motivated. I wasn't getting

605
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:09,280
the response I needed. It was Halloween weekend. It was probably going to be cold. You know,

606
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:12,640
because it's late October. I just decided it wasn't the right time. I decided to postpone it

607
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:18,240
to next summer. So it's on July 13th in Ottawa. I really want to make it the bigger and better

608
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:23,200
than it's ever been. So it's called Canada Abuses Animals, which is quite a jarring name,

609
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:27,680
but you know, the shock value is part of the point because it is animal abuse and it's not

610
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:33,200
just Canada, right? It's every country. America abuses animals. The Czech Republic abuses animals.

611
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:37,760
Argentina abuses animals. I mean, it's everywhere. But the point is that the public needs to

612
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:42,480
understand that is true. That sentiment is accurate. This is animal abuse and it's systemic.

613
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:48,160
It's systemic. It's legal and it needs to be challenged. And so that's why we marched to

614
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:55,680
parliament, right? But anyway, that's happening. I'm still doing work with AV. I love AV. I will

615
01:09:55,680 --> 01:10:02,000
always want to be part of what they're doing. I'm also the Canada regional organizer. So I help to

616
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:07,760
manage the chapters across the country. And I've been thinking lately about doing initiatives that

617
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:17,200
are more solo, you know, like mostly initiatives I do, they require lots of people and lots of

618
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:21,680
planning. And I've been thinking that, you know, maybe just doing something where all I need is

619
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:26,400
someone to film me. And then maybe that video hopefully goes viral, it could be a really great

620
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:32,160
way to do simple activism. And then anybody listening to this, I encourage you to do that as

621
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:35,680
well. You don't need a lot of people to do something effective. You don't even need someone to

622
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:40,960
film you if you can potentially film yourself doing it. Somewhere where there's lots of people,

623
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:45,680
you know, plan something effective, something that's like even an art installation that's

624
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:52,480
moving. That's, you know, I have my own ideas of what I might do myself, but you don't need to have

625
01:10:52,480 --> 01:10:56,880
a lot of people or a lot of money, or a lot of planning to make a big impact. You just need a

626
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:02,000
lot of people to see it and all the people to be moved by it. So yeah, that's something I'm also

627
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:10,240
considering doing in the near future. That's amazing. I'm looking forward to all of that.

628
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:19,120
And and more and you're always welcome on this podcast, if you want to talk about your future

629
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:25,520
initiatives, I'm certain that it will be as inspiring as the past ones. So and successful

630
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:32,640
too. So yeah, thank you. That's very kind. Thank you. Natalie, did you want to add something before

631
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:40,400
we end this conversation? Stay hopeful. That's all. Stay hopeful. It's really hard to stay hopeful.

632
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:45,680
Sometimes when you see the scale of the evil that's happening that we humans are inflicting,

633
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:48,720
the behemoths that we're up against, these industry, you know,

634
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:58,400
giants that have so much more power than we do, it seems. And I say it seems because

635
01:11:59,920 --> 01:12:05,520
they have the money, they have the lobbyists, they have they have so much that we don't have.

636
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:17,760
But we have the truth and we have justice on our side. We know this is wrong. We know that no evil

637
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:23,440
can last forever. And I hope we know that most human beings are good at their core.

638
01:12:24,480 --> 01:12:30,400
They have a heart they care about, they want to eat meat, they don't want to eat animals.

639
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:35,120
I don't think people actually really want to hurt animals. Usually one of the worst things you can

640
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:42,160
see on TV or or or in movies is an animal being harmed. People hate to see this. That tells you

641
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:47,600
something. We're not actually supposed to be doing this systemically or at all on a daily basis

642
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:53,680
at all. We're not supposed to be hurting innocent sentient beings. We're supposed to recognize

643
01:12:53,680 --> 01:13:01,920
that they have emotions and and and and and they feel pain and suffering the same way

644
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:06,960
that we do. And if not even the same way that that they suffer at all, why would we want to

645
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:12,320
inflict this suffering? People do care about this. People do care about, most people do care

646
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:18,480
about what's happening to animals. They don't actually want to participate in this. They don't

647
01:13:18,480 --> 01:13:25,040
care about what's happening to animals. They don't actually want to participate in what they're

648
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:28,960
participating in. They're just turning a blind eye right now because it's what they're used to.

649
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:35,360
It's what they've been conditioned to do. And I do believe that we will get past this. I think

650
01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:40,560
lots of things will help us get us there. Especially food technology will really help us get us there.

651
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:46,240
We will get there. But we need you. We need people to be activists. So if you're not an activist yet,

652
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:53,680
do something. It doesn't have to be a huge thing. Every little bit helps. But but join us. We we

653
01:13:53,680 --> 01:14:00,800
we are only stronger together. And yeah, it's one of the most beautiful things you can do with your

654
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:07,520
life, I think is standing up against oppression, against evil, and doing it for not even for

655
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:13,360
yourself. You're doing it for someone else or many someone else's. It's a beautiful thing to do with

656
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:20,640
your life. And I'm really glad that I found this movement and veganism. And, you know, the movement

657
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:24,880
gives me lots of hope and lots of joy just because there's so many beautiful people in it. So

658
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:30,800
join us. Be one of those wonderful people. And we'll get through this. We will get there.

659
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:37,760
Stay hopeful. Amazing. I hope your message gets across. Natalie, thank you again for all of your

660
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:45,040
work and for having accepted to be a guest on my show. My pleasure. Thank you so much, Ryan. It was

661
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:50,480
a total joy and an honor to be here with you today and talk to you about this. I really appreciate

662
01:14:50,480 --> 01:14:57,200
what you're doing. Thank you, everyone for listening. And thank you so much for being a friend

663
01:14:57,200 --> 01:15:04,160
of this show. As always, please share this episode with your community. Let's inspire more people to

664
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:10,640
take action. If you're listening to this on Apple podcasts, please leave a five star review.

665
01:15:11,440 --> 01:15:16,160
Finally, you can always follow me on Instagram at vegan report podcast.

666
01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:30,160
Thank you again for listening. Take care and see you soon.