Hello everyone, my name is Ryan and you're listening to The Vegan Report.
If you're vegan for ethical reasons and you care to do more for animal rights but you're
not sure where to start, then this podcast is for you.
Every week, fall in love with passionate, thought-provoking and inspiring animal rights
leaders who will help you find your voice, your own special contribution to the animal
rights movement.
However small or big it is.
For those of you who don't know, last week's episode and today's episode are both on the
topic of Vigaphobia and they have both been produced in partnership with the New York
City chapter of the National Lawyers Guild.
They are organizing a webinar on Tuesday, October 17.
It is called Expanding Vegan Rights and it will feature vegans from all over the world
who were the victim of discrimination and who decided to fight back.
For the very first time ever, they will meet each other and share stories of what they
went through.
I invite all of you to show your support by registering to the webinar.
Follow the link in the description and don't miss out on that amazing conversation.
In last week's episode, I had on Tamara, the organizer of the webinar, this was one of
our most listened conversation so if you haven't, make sure to check it out.
But today we are having an exclusive one-on-one conversation with Astrid Prevot, one of the
webinar's guests.
Astrid is a French citizen and ethical vegan.
As someone who has battled bulimia and as a vegan, she has the noble aspiration of becoming
a board certified dietitian to help people who are struggling with their eating habits.
However, she recently encountered discrimination in the context of her studies, threatening
the accomplishment of her dream.
But she is fighting back in a lawsuit that could forever change a French board of dietitians
which is deeply prejudiced against plant-based diets.
So hi Astrid, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for being here.
Hi Ryan, thank you very much for having me.
So Astrid, my first question for you is why did you decide to be vocal about your fight
in this podcast and in the upcoming webinar?
Well, I decided to be vocal about my fight because I think it's very important for other
vegans to realize that we can fight for our rights and also that our rights defend animal
rights.
It's all linked.
So I think it's very important not to just let it go.
I'm wondering, do you think that discrimination against vegans is just one more face, one
more mask of animal exploitation that it's not really about discriminating against vegans,
it's about continuing that exploitation that you're just a collateral victim of this big
animal exploitation?
Well, I don't really know about it, but what I know is that discrimination against vegans
really prevents people from becoming vegans because people are afraid to be discriminated
against.
Some become vegan and then they quit veganism because of the social injustice and because
they feel they are not accepted and they are marked and they have a hard time finding food
where they live.
So yeah, I think discrimination against vegans have really very concrete outcomes.
And so yeah, I think that's also why we should fight against it because the final outcome
is that it promotes animal exploitation, even if it's not direct, but still.
That's an amazing answer.
And before talking about how you were discriminated against, let's start by telling the story
of your vegan journey.
So why did you become vegan?
And you told me before that you were first vegetarian and then you became vegan.
So how did that happen?
Yes, right, I was first vegetarian.
Well, actually, I never liked eating animals.
I remember very clearly that when I was three years old, I perfectly understood that meat
was dead animals.
Well, I didn't understand so much the concept of death, but I understood that it was animals
flesh and that they had to suffer for us to get meat.
And I hated it.
But I thought that there was no other way to do.
And also during my whole childhood and teenage years, and I think even now sometimes, I really
wanted to fit into the mold.
I didn't want to be outside the box.
So I didn't say anything.
I didn't ask to become a vegetarian when I was a kid or a teenager.
I just wanted to fit in so badly.
So I just forced myself to eat animals and do as if nothing was happening.
And well, this was a pattern for me.
I did this for to eat meat, but also for other things.
And well, my story is that during my teenage years, I became bulimic.
And actually, this was not so much because I wanted to look like the supermodels or whatever.
It was much more an issue of me not being myself.
And so actually, when I decided first to become a vegetarian and then later on a vegan, it
really helped me with this because it was like setting boundaries for me.
It was telling myself and telling the world that I have my boundaries.
I respect them, whatever you think.
These are my boundaries and I'm not going to cross them because you think otherwise.
So this was a very important step.
And I became a vegetarian only when I was 20 years old because at this time I traveled
a lot and I met, well, many people.
Some of them were vegetarians, some of them were vegans.
And I realized that this was possible.
So I wanted to do the same and stop eating animals.
But at this time, I was not aware at all that milk and eggs were also killing animals.
I just did not see the link.
I thought you don't kill a cow to get the milk.
You don't kill a chicken to get the eggs.
So what's the problem?
And actually it took me eight years, I think, to know about this.
It was thanks to an NGO that I learned that dairy and eggs also kill animals.
And so I never planned on stopping eating dairy and eggs.
But when I learned about this, I thought to myself, okay, so I have a choice.
Either I go this way and even though I never planned to do it, and I was even afraid that
it would bring back some bulimia and binge eating because it would bring back the obsession
of food.
I was very afraid of this, or I thought to myself, maybe I can just do things as if I
didn't know, but I cannot unknow something I know.
So I decided to give myself a try.
I thought, okay, I'm going to try to veganize my eating habits for six months.
And if it works, okay, great.
If it didn't work, at least I tried it.
And it worked very well because I've been an ethical vegan for eight years now.
Amazing.
And congratulations.
Usually when people say, oh, everyone can be vegan, I think, not everyone.
I mean, there are people who have like health conditions that stop them from eating lots
of fibers.
But also, there are people like you who have an eating disorder and I feel uncomfortable
preaching veganism to those people.
What is your take on that?
Should we talk about veganism with people who have eating disorders?
Should we be more sensitive about advocating for veganism, thinking about, oh, maybe there
are some people with eating disorders.
And they might want to become vegan, but they just can't because of their condition.
So what is your take on that?
Well, from my point of view, we shouldn't just forbid ourselves to talk about veganism
with these people.
But in the end, it all depends on how they are and how they take their journey.
For example, I know that if I had become vegan for, well, in the hope that I would have lost
weight, it wouldn't have worked.
If it was about myself, well, I would have quit it and well, you know, it would have
been a failure.
But I didn't do it just for myself.
It was something bigger.
It was about a philosophy.
So that's why it worked.
But I think any change in food habits is very hard to implement, actually, whether it is
for, well, to lose weight or for ethical reasons or for the planet, you need to have a very,
very good why.
And so if your why is strong enough, then it's going to work.
I wholeheartedly agree.
I mean, I often say the health argument for veganism is kind of weak.
I prefer the ethical and philosophical one.
And I'm happy that we're on the same page on that topic.
So you did not only become vegan, you started advocating for animal rights.
And I want you to tell us about how you made that transition, because this podcast, the
goal of my podcast is actually to encourage vegans to take the extra step and to do more
for animal rights.
So how did that happen for you?
Well, first of all, I would say that it took me some time to go from vegan to vegan activist,
because at first I really needed to take time for myself to see how it worked for me.
And well, I'm someone who really needs time about everything.
And you know, I just needed not to be influenced by anyone.
I hated when people looked into my plate and told me like, why do you eat like this?
And what about your proteins?
And like, well, blah, blah, blah.
But also I needed not to be influenced by vegans or activists to tell me, oh, this is
very good, and you should do this, and you should do that.
I really like cut myself a little bit from the world and just tried it for myself to
see how it felt really, rather than know a lot of things.
And it took me some years.
And when I saw that it was working perfectly well for me, then I felt confident enough
to go and be an activist and share with others what I saw and what I felt for myself.
And so I began with diverse organizations.
First, it was very small things.
It was, you know, just some street actions.
And I'm, well, I'm not very much about advocating, like showing people images, like very violent
images and like this, because I don't like it.
I'm very sensitive to it.
So I cannot stand it for myself.
And I'm much more about advocating, like showing people it's possible, showing that vegan
food is good, that you can enjoy yourself, and, you know, like this, because I think
for me it's things that work.
So I share this kind of things.
And also I became like, you know, I made some chronicles like a journalist for a small web
media some years ago.
Yeah, so I worked with diverse NGOs and I volunteer in a sanctuary also in Switzerland.
So yeah, diverse actions.
And how did that engagement impact you in your personal life?
Did it feel good to do more for animal rights?
Or does it sometimes get, you know, tiring and you're thinking, oh, maybe I should, you
know, take some distance from my activism?
Take some distance?
No, never.
But actually about how it feels, I think it feels both ways, because on the one hand,
you meet a lot of people and it's very encouraging and you really build a community and learn
things also.
And this is very important.
On the other hand, you are really confronted with the fact that the world doesn't move
past at all.
And now I also work on more political subjects.
And so when you are in this world, I mean, I just have a toe in this world, but still
you really can see how sometimes hypocrite it is.
They you know, they say that they want to do some things and it's a lot of very beautiful
words, but it's only words and it's never actions.
Yeah.
I mean, that's politicians for you.
I want to know because you're from France, how is veganism perceived in France?
What is the reality of vegans in France?
It's complicated.
We are not very well perceived.
I mean, now I think most of the population think that vegans are just people who go and
and like break, break batteries or break slaughterhouses during their weekends or things like this,
or people who just eat like grass and grains and that's it.
Or some of them think that it's only about eating like fake things, fake food.
That's it.
But on the other hand, it brought a little bit vegetarian vegetarianism out of the box.
Now being vegetarian is much more acceptable than it was.
And I think this is because veganism is actually much more like not so well perceived.
Some years ago, even vegetarian, it was like you were an alien.
That's such an interesting point.
So because there are more people who are becoming vegan and vegan is more in the mainstream
and it's perceived as extreme, then vegetarian is more acceptable for people because they're
comparing it to vegan.
Now the extreme thing is being vegan and being vegetarian is okay mostly.
Basically people are saying, oh, at least you're not vegan.
You're vegetarian.
Okay, so let's get into the topic of what happened, the discrimination that you went
through.
So as I understand it, you decided to study nutrition.
Why did you choose that field?
How did you make that choice?
What is nutrition and passion of yours?
Well, I think given my history with food, it was like obvious.
Well, it was a call, I think, because both because of my history with bulimia and also
with my history with veganism, I really wanted to show people first that it was possible
to be vegan and to be healthy.
And I met quite a lot of people who maybe not wanted to become vegan, but began to question
their food habits, but were afraid about like lacking some nutrients and like this.
So I really saw that there was something to do about this.
And also being a former bulimic, I thought, well, you know, I know that actually food
is much more than just like putting gas into a car.
It's not just energy.
It's a lot more.
It has so many psychological links to it.
So I really wanted to talk about this and to be able to share with people.
First I took a certification to become a nutrient therapist.
And this was great.
Actually, I loved it.
But in France, it's not recognized like it's not official.
I still could help people like individuals that I could not work on the collective level.
And I really wanted to do this, to be able to help more people and to help change society
at a bigger level.
So I registered for the dietitian course.
This is the only diploma, the only degree that is official in France.
So yeah, that's how I came to this degree.
So I guess you got a sample of what it's like, the field of nutrition, doing your certification.
And then you decided to level up and get more serious about it and become like a board
certified dietitian.
Yes, right.
Exactly.
And what is, because you mentioned how you wanted to talk about veganism, at least create
more resources, be an expert in the field and be of help of people who want to transition
and adopt a vegan diet.
I want to know what is it like to be vegan in France and you want to try getting some
professional help to help organize your diet?
Are you going to find easily like a nutritionist, a dietitian, an expert to help you?
Or are you going to be judged?
Are there any prejudices?
Well, you should really research specifically for a professional who knows about veganism,
because otherwise, if it's just any medical help you search, you are going to be judged
and you are going to be told that you have to eat meat, especially if it's for children,
like for example, parents who go to the doctor or to the dietitian to get advice.
If it's not someone who is well, really trained about veganism, they are always going to tell
them that the children have to eat meat and that it's a big problem if they don't and
they will have like a big nutrient lack.
So yeah, it's complicated still.
Wow.
So the baseline is it's a hostile environment.
And did you know that it was a hostile environment before getting into the field?
I knew it was a hostile environment and well, really, you know, I just wanted to get this
degree to be able to do what I wanted afterwards.
But what I learned after registering is that you have a class that is called like culinary
techniques and basically it's a cooking class.
There are some other subtleties, but still it's basically a cooking class.
And during this class, especially for the exam, you only have animal products to cook.
I was studying from home.
I was like a distance, you know, distance student.
Yeah, it was during COVID, I think.
Yes, right.
Well, at home I could do whatever I wanted, but still at the exam, it's a national exam.
So you are only provided with animal products.
And what's crazy is that in the text, the text low, it's not written down that you should
use animal products or whatever.
They even say that the students should be able to advise people with ecological advice
and like this, so it's very, very beautiful words, but still in the practice, it's always
animal products.
So the problem was this particular class, this cooking class, part of your curriculum,
and there were only animal ingredients.
And I mean, is it like, did you have like a limited number of ingredients?
Because I guess for the people listening, it's like, oh, but what if you just don't use
the animal products?
What if you use only the vegetables or things like that?
But actually, you have like a meal that you need to make and that meal is made up of animal
products.
So can you make that nuance?
Yes, well, actually, as you said, it's like you have a recipe to make.
Well, usually it's two recipes for the exam.
And they, well, because they only give you animal products, it's like you have a limited
list of ingredients, as you said.
And you cannot, obviously, you cannot bring any ingredients from your home because it's
a national exam and they only authorize you with what's directly on the exam site.
So for example, we have to cook some very traditional French dishes.
I don't know if you know about it, but we have like blanquettes that is made with beer
or bourguignon, some things like this that can be asked.
And so, well, these are some recipes that I can do with vegan ingredients.
I know how to do them.
I can cook them vegan.
But still, if you don't give me any vegan ingredients, if you only give me veal and like carrots,
I cannot give you a blanket with a, well, a blanket, blanket with just veal.
If, yeah, I won't use veal because I'm vegan, but if it's only carrots, then it's not what's
expected.
And by the way, this class is required.
You can't pass the class and just get your degree.
Yeah, right.
It's compulsory.
Okay.
And I guess people would have told you, oh, but just make it, you know, make the meal.
You don't have to eat it.
Just make it.
You know, close your eyes, do it, and just forget about it.
Get your degree and do your good work in the field of veganism.
Why was that not an acceptable option for you?
Well, it was totally unacceptable.
And I actually, there are some, some vegetarian or vegan dietitians who do this and who just
skip it for the day.
But I can't, I can do this because, because of my history with food.
I mean, it would have meant for me crushing my boundaries down.
And it's like, tell me, okay, just for one day, you can, you can leave your boundaries
at the door and just, you know, walk on it and crush it down.
It doesn't matter.
And well, it matters actually.
Okay.
So what did he do then?
How did you react?
Well, obviously, it was very complicated for me.
And at first, I didn't see any, any issue to this problem.
So at first I quit it.
After some months, I chose to quit this degree and thought, okay, I'm going to do otherwise,
whatever, I don't know, but I'm going to do otherwise.
Then after some months more, I reflected about this and I thought, okay, this is very important
for me, for my career.
If I want to work with NGOs and with official institutions, I need to be a dietitian because
otherwise I won't be heard.
So I thought, okay, I'm going back to, to get this degree and to tackle it.
I don't know what I'm going to do about it, but I'm going to do it.
And well, to make it a little bit like easier for me, I chose to, to take first the very
scientific courses during the first year because intellectually, this is the more difficult.
So I thought, okay, I'm just going to tackle this part first.
And if I, if I get it, then I will be too advanced to quit again.
So that's what I did.
This was last year in 2022.
And well, when I came back to this class, I still was lost.
I didn't know what to do about it.
But I thought actually that you could at least go to the jury on the day of the exam and
explain them what you did and why you did it.
I thought it was a little bit like during, you know, what you see on TV for the cooking,
cooking soap shows.
MasterChef.
I don't know how you call it.
Yeah, like MasterChef.
Yes, right.
Exactly.
I thought that you, you just meet the, the examinators and present them your dishes.
So I thought, okay, I'm going to prepare something like something like a little bit, a little
speech to, to explain to them why there is nothing on my plate and why it's like not
good at all.
But at least I can tell them, okay, this is for the animals.
And this is my story.
And you know that for the, for the planet, it's not good.
So yeah, at least I can just express myself.
And finally I learned that this was not the case at all, that on the day of the exam, you
prepare your dish.
After, afterwards, you just leave it in the fridge.
And after you leave the room, they come and take your dish and taste it.
So this was like a big catastrophe for me because I didn't even have this platform to
express myself.
So finally, after some months, someone gave me the idea that actually I had this medical
condition and that I can use it and I can ask a doctor to give me a note saying that
I cannot cook with animal products.
So that's what I did.
And actually I went to a very understanding doctor and she gave me this, this certificate
saying that I should not cook with animal products.
But I don't know if it's the same in the US or in Canada, but here on the medical certificate,
the reason is not, is not written down because this is medical secrecy.
Like you know, if, if you give something to your boss, yeah, they should not write the
reason on it.
That's your, you know, your, your stuff.
Yeah.
And so what did they say?
I mean, you, they have the paper from your doctor saying you cannot use those ingredients.
You need to take that class.
It is required.
You program that class for your last semester of school.
You can't give that speech.
So what was their response?
Well, first of all, it took a very long time to get a response.
Of course.
I got this paper from the doctor late February this year, so 2023.
And they only responded to me in May.
So this was several months before they gave me an answer.
And first of all, they accepted.
So I was very happy about it.
And I even got the paper that it was okay and that I would cook this for this exam without
animal products.
And then 10 days later, I got a call from, well, here we call it the rector like the,
you know, the administration, the national administration who organizes the exam.
And it was a very embarrassed man who told me that they were sorry, but actually it was
not possible to adapt to the exam without animal products because everyone should cook
the same thing with the same ingredients.
And that the best they could do was provide me with a protective equipment like gloves
and, you know, a full equipment to protect myself from the animal products.
Because what I understood from this call is that they thought I was allergic.
They couldn't see any reason, any other reason why I could ask to cook without animal products.
That's just crazy.
I mean, they gave you a pair of gloves.
They were just like, yeah, we can't adapt.
Why?
Why is it so hard to just give you like a, like any kind of vegan recipe, like a salad
or I mean, it's healthy, a salad is healthy.
Why is it so hard for them to just accommodate your needs for that exam?
Well, actually, I, I wrote them back and that's what I told them.
I told them that either I could have another recipe, but even if they just provided me
with, with vegan ingredients, like, you know, some soy proteins or some, well, plant based
milk or whatever, I can cook vegan recipes like traditional French dishes, but make it
vegan.
There is no problem with this.
And what they answered me is that all the students should have the same recipe.
But actually they didn't answer about the part of me telling them that I can still cook
the same recipe, but with vegan ingredients.
But I think the why is just because it's like so far from their way of thinking it's like,
yeah, it's so strange to them.
Well, do you think there is a more, you know, I don't want to, to judge their intentions.
We don't know, you know, the real intentions.
So do you think they have like, like an animal pro animal industry agenda?
Like I'm thinking about discussion I had on episode 12 of the podcast with Dr. Heath.
And she's this vegan veterinarian.
And when she started speaking up for animal rights, she got this big backlash from her
colleagues and from veterinarian associations.
And she told me that the reason why lots of vegans, lots of veterinarians are not vegan
was because in the selection process, they will reject people who are vegans from, you
know, starting a degree in veterinarian school, which is crazy.
And I'm thinking, maybe this is what's happening here.
Maybe they don't want vegans in your profession.
Maybe this is why there aren't many board set your phallic dietitians in your, in your
field, you know, vegan in your field.
So what do you think?
What is your instinct saying here?
Well, I think that what you say is true, but at a bigger level.
I mean, when they build the nutritional recommendations, there are the lobbies sitting at the table.
So yes, this is the part where they intervene.
But for example, I think that in the program, the program is built in a way that it already
discourages vegans to get into this, this degree.
And I'm the exception or it will be vegans who, and there are not many of us, but it
will be vegans who just like cook the, the, the recipe that is asked on the D day.
And after, after all, they do whatever they want, but still, you know, the recommendations
are still very anti vegans.
So I think it's not the people from the administration, the people I talked with who are anti vegans
or who are like paid by the lobby or whatever.
I think on their part, it's really ignorance.
It's not wanting to bother themselves and to, you know, just to do things the way they,
they are used to do it.
But I don't think it's, it's being anti vegan or pro lobby or whatever.
Yeah, it's mostly ignorance, but on a bigger, on a bigger level.
Yes, it is.
Yeah.
It's not like a nefarious plot against you.
It's just, you know, this ignorance that you're talking about that is being fed by the animal,
by the influence of the animal industry.
Okay.
So by the way, how did you feel about all of this?
Because you know, I would have felt like just so anxious.
So this is such a stressful situation because first of all, you started the degree, then
you left, then you came back, then you, you programmed that class for your last semester
and you're just, I mean, you're approaching more and more to the date of the exam.
And so it's like, it's a very stressful situation.
How did you feel?
How did you keep your mental health in check?
Well, I think I didn't keep it so much actually.
And yes, it was, it was very stressful.
And during the first year, even though I was not taking this, this class, well, the example,
this class at the end of the year, I still relapsed into bulimia actually, because this
still put a lot of stress on me because I didn't know what to do about it.
And during the second year, well, actually it was not about bulimia, but I was just unable
to study, especially this class, I was just totally unable to study if I tried to read
some things or listen to some things.
You know, every time I saw the name of an animal product, it was just like so stressful
for me.
And also I was very angry about it.
So at this moment, it was just like words were mingling in front of my eyes.
So yeah, it was a lot of stress.
Totally understandable.
And the other students, were they understanding of your situation?
Did you share what you were going through?
What was your opinion?
Well, because I was studying from distance, you know, like, yeah, distention, I was not
in touch with a lot of students.
But actually the students who were not vegan, they just didn't understand at all.
And there are some students in dietitian class who are totally anti-vegan also.
And there are some vegan students that I knew who were very supportive of me.
But, well, you know, for them, they just wanted to do what they were asked to on the
day of the exam, to secure the exam.
But still they were supportive, but not ready to like to do as I wanted to do.
At this time, I didn't know how, but just be sure that I wouldn't cook or touch animal
product on the day of the exam.
And it's sad because I guess you had to hide the fact that you were vegan to certain teachers.
And that was just a missed opportunity to maybe ask them questions that were relevant
to veganism because you don't know if they're prejudiced.
So yeah, it's a complicated situation.
Well, as for this, as for the part about the questions, I also took another, like, degree
it's not like, well, it's not it's not official, but it's not like something you can you can
put on your CV or something like this.
But it was something specific about vegetarian eating, which included vegan eating as well.
And it was a class was made by two doctors who are very like pro vegetarian, pro vegans.
So I had this class in 2022.
So you know, about the knowledge I needed, I could ask it on this, yeah, on this part.
So yeah, I didn't need like the regular course to give me this knowledge.
Nice.
That's great to hear.
And there are other countries where it is more acceptable to be vegan of vegetarian.
So you have resources there too, that you can access.
Okay.
So what happened next, they're suggesting you to use, you know, gloves, you're insisting
that you this is not about skin, this is not a skin condition.
So you still had to take the exam.
What happened?
So this was in late May that they told me that finally I should cook with animal products
like everyone else.
And the exam, well, my exam was on June 6.
So it was very, very short notice.
So at this time I was asking myself a lot of questions, but still, I thought about going
to justice and I told the man who phoned me from the administration that I was going
to bring this to justice.
I was not 100% sure myself because I feared a lot that, well, you know, it was embarrassing
for me and that I could, well, be seen like, you know, the, the bother, well, someone who
bothers everyone and like this.
But still I thought to do this.
And after thinking about it for some days, well, this was the good decision for me because,
you know, I, I thought a lot about why I went to this, to this class and why I wanted to
get this degree.
And in the end, it was for the animals, it was not just about myself.
So I thought, okay, even if I need to, to wait one year more to get my degree, I'm still
going to do this because, well, you know, getting my degree is more about something about my
ego, but yeah, that's not the final, the finality of it.
And let's not, you know, get into the details of it, but how do you start, you know, suing
someone for something?
Did you have to look up for a lawyer?
Then you had to explain the situation.
What is the process that you have to go through?
Well, here, when you sue the administration, it's, it's a court, a specialist court for
the administration, you don't have to get a lawyer.
But still, you know that it will be better for you if you have a lawyer.
So I, well, I didn't really search for a lawyer at this time because I was in contact with
the, with one, but he's in Switzerland and I'm in France.
So the first thing I did is that I CC him with, in my emails that I sent to the administration.
And at first he told me, okay, I'm going to take your case.
But after all, we phoned each other and we thought, okay, so this is maybe too complicated
because even if he's, if he's specialized in international rights, it's international.
It's not about the French law, especially.
So he found a colleague in Paris who could help me.
And yeah, so that's how I found a lawyer because I knew that if it was just myself, you know,
there are very, some very specific language like low language, if you don't fit into it,
it's not so good.
So I wanted to take a lawyer.
Yeah, it's called, I think, legalese, the language of lawyers.
And it's horrible.
I start reading, you know, texts of laws and I just, I want to go to sleep.
It's so boring.
Okay.
And then what, you know, did you get that diploma?
Or, I don't know.
How did they, I still, I still, I still didn't finish it because it's a, well, it's a degree
where we get the results very late.
And actually I'm still going to take one part of the exam next week.
No, this week, actually, in two days.
It's about the memoir that you have to, you know, something written and then you explain
it and I get the results only next week.
So I still don't know if I got it.
And are you worried because I feel like, you know, you're suing them and they have to grade
your papers now and, you know, decide whether to give you that diploma or not.
Are you worried that they won't be objective in their assessment of your profile, of your
student profile?
Well, I was very much worried at first.
And when I was in this, like wondering, okay, am I going to do this or not?
I was very much worried about this.
But what I realized since last June is that actually the examinators, I think they don't
know about it.
They don't communicate that much.
And you know, the examinators, they just come and grade you or correct your, well, what
you wrote, but they don't have like your whole resume.
So I think it's, it can be done.
I don't know.
That's good.
And, okay, now you're suing them.
What is going to happen if you win your case against them?
Well, what I hope is that it will become compulsory, you know, it will become, here we say jurisprudence.
I don't know if it's the same word.
Yeah.
I think so, yeah.
It will become jurisprudence that there should be vegan ingredients in the exams, in the cooking
exams for the dietitian.
I really hope so, and that's why I went to justice, because if it would have been just
for myself, I don't know if I would have bothered that much.
But it's also because I thought, okay, if nobody says anything, if, well, it will just
continue like this.
If even vegan students don't say anything and just comply on the day of the exam, no,
nothing will happen and nothing will change.
And that's amazing, because you know, you're going, if this succeeds, you're going to change
the field of nutrition in all of France.
And students, vegan who want to get into that field won't have to go through the struggle
that you went through.
So yeah, it's an amazing story, because it's like if you wanted to do more for animal rights,
and often the whole team of this podcast is choose your fight, choose your way of making
a difference.
But you did not choose that fight.
That fight chose you, which is crazy and amazing in its own way.
What can we do to support your fight?
Well, first of all, giving me a platform to talk about it is really great, because I think
that's important to take the word out and to make people realize that they have power,
that they can do things.
And that's also why I do this and I went to justice.
Because yeah, I think it's important not to just say, okay, I'm going to let this go.
And after, well, as for me, I think this is really the most important.
There is another fight that I'm supporting actually very much.
That's also about justice for vegans and so for animals as well.
That is very important.
It's an appeal that is happening at the European Court of Human Rights right now.
And this is based on the story of a former vegan prisoner who was a, well, who is a friend
of a friend actually, and it's his lawyer who found me my lawyer actually.
And this is a very, very big fight because it's the ECHR.
And so if he wins, it will make that European countries will be obligated to give vegan
options, at least in prisons.
And I hope also in hospitals and we can hope maybe one day in schools as well.
So yeah, it will be 46 countries if he wins.
So this is something huge.
And he is leading a crowdfunding right now to pay his lawyer.
So this is a way to help also defend the vegan rights and so animal rights as well.
Yeah.
And listeners will find a link in the description to support that crowdfunding campaign.
So what I understand from this story is that he went to prison and there were no vegan
options.
So he basically starved.
Yes, that's exactly it.
There was no vegan options.
For some days he could not eat anything because even the pasta, the rice or the vegetables
were cooked with dairy or with eggs.
So for days he could not eat.
At first he was not given any B12 supplement.
It took him two months before the prison gave him some.
And at first they gave him some vegan supplement, sorry, some B12 supplement with animal products
in it.
But he could not even take it and it took maybe two months more before he was authorized
to get B12 supplements from his friends, bringing them, bringing it into prison.
So yeah, this was crazy.
And yeah, it's a very good thing that he went to court with it.
It's a horrendous story.
But yeah, like you said, I'm so happy that he's fighting for the rights of vegans.
And it's good that you mentioned his story because I guess I'm sure that there are listeners
right now who went through some form of discrimination being vegan.
And maybe this is the sign for them to fight against that.
I don't know if there is any Facebook group or any kind of group network to support vegans
who lived through discrimination because of their dietary choices, like a support group.
So maybe this could be an initiative that a listener could start.
So yeah.
Yes, totally.
This would be a good idea and yet to support each other.
I think I'm encouraged each other to do something about it.
Yeah, well, what do you want to say to vegans who want to do more but are still on the fence
about it?
Well, I think first of all, maybe find your way to do it.
I mean, don't think, okay, this is the good thing to do.
Like the only way is to show people horrendous images of slaughterhouses.
So I should do this or this is the efficient way.
So I should do this.
I think first of all, begin by yourself.
Like think about what you like, what you are good at, what you want to do.
And yeah, put this at the service of the vegan cause and of the animal cause.
So that's the way you will thrive, I think, at what you do.
And also about vegan discrimination, well, discrimination against vegans.
I think that we should always say something and maybe not being very vocal about it.
I mean, I'm not shouting everywhere like, okay, this is a big injustice and I'm so miserable
and like this, but still I think it's very important to say, okay, this is a no, this
is my limit and you're not going to cross it point like a period.
Yeah, I agree with that perspective.
Yeah, we want more people to be vegan and to stay vegan.
And if we allow those institutions to continue, you know, marginalizing vegan, then our mission
will be harder or sometimes even impossible.
So Astrid, did you want to add something before we end this conversation?
That's a big thank you for having me on your podcast and yeah, that's really, really great.
I think that's very important to make our voices heard.
And also in some way it is to make the animals heard because, you know, I don't say so much
that they don't have a voice because actually when you are in contact with an animal, they
really know how to speak with you and how to communicate with you.
But I think to other humans, it's important that we humans speak up and tell our stories
and encourage other people to follow not our path, but their own path to being more empathetic
and vegan because vegan is good.
Amazing, that's a great message to end the conversation.
Thank you so much Astrid for having been a guest on this show.
Thank you so much for sharing this incredible story of yours and for continuing your fight
for animal rights.
You have my full admiration.
So thank you very much Astrid.
Thank you everyone for listening.
Let me remind you that the webinar will be happening on October 17.
There is a link in the description for registration and more details.
I want to thank the National Lawyers Guild for hosting the event.
As always, please tell your friends about the show and why you love it so much.
Let's inspire more people to take action.
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Finally, you can always reach out to me on Instagram at VeganReportPodcast.
Thank you again for listening.
Take care and see you next Tuesday for a new episode.