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Hello everyone, my name is Ryan and you're listening to The Vegan Report.

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If you're vegan for the animals and you care to do more for animal rights, but you're not sure

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where to start, then this podcast is for you. Every week, let yourself fall in love with

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passionate animal rights leaders who will inspire you to find your voice, your own special

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contribution to the animal rights movement, however small or big it is. Today we are going

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to talk about farms transitioning to a cruelty-free and exploitation-free business model.

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As you know listeners, this is a topic very dear to my heart. In the past, I have welcomed guests

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who used to work for the animal industry before recognizing the harm it causes. You will remember

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Colin, episode 2 of the podcast, who used to work for ranches and slaughterhouses before becoming

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vegan and speaking up publicly about his experience. It was also the case for Catherine, episode 4 of

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the podcast, who worked for a horse stable but has now opened an animal sanctuary in the heart of

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Vietnam. Stories like these inspire me more than anything else. It gives me the hope that change

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is possible and a brighter future awaits us. To discuss this topic, I have with me Kennedy

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Little from Farm Transition Academy. On their website, and I will leave a link in the description,

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you can read the following description. Our work consists of two main pillars. We assist farmers

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and industry workers transition towards regenerative forms of agriculture and alternative

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forms of income. We provide businesses and communication strategy advice to farmers interested

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in transitioning. We host workshops and presentations for individuals who want to become allies of

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farmers and industry workers who want to leave the animal farming industry and search for more

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stable, sustainable, and safe sources of income. Welcome to the podcast, Kennedy. Thank you so

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much for having me, Ryan. It's such a pleasure to be here speaking about these important issues that

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Farm Transition Academy attempts to tackle. There are definitely a lot of them and those pillars

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ring very true within our organization. So thank you for having us. Well, thank you for being here.

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Can you first introduce yourself? How did you get involved with Farm Transition Academy?

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Yeah, so my name once again is Kennedy Little. My pronouns are she her. And I live in Lexington,

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Kentucky, born and raised. And so just being a part of the agriculture scene here in the south,

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kind of the United States, it really has allowed me to see how agriculture is such a prominent way

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of living for so many individuals. I'm living here with my two sisters and my parents. And once I

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started high school, I began to attend an agricultural school. That's when I began getting involved

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with FFA and learning about organizations like 4-H and AFA. And just seeing what's out there related

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to agriculture and youth involvement. Soon after that, that's when I began to learn more about

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veterinary medicine and other forms of agriculture. And currently, a junior in college majoring in

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pre-law and agribusiness, where I hope to continue to fight for animals through policy and legislation,

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doing on the ground work with farmers, and just using my voice to be an advocate for those that

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are not always heard. And I joined Farm Transition Academy my sophomore summer. And there, that's

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when I met Mira Geyser and Tatiana Boppin, who are the two co-founders of FTA. And it just really

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sparked a connection between all of us. We're all very passionate activists. And yeah, it was just

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the perfect thing that could have happened for me because I had always said before that, I want to

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help farmers farm more sustainably. And I had the opportunity to do that. So I definitely took it.

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How did you develop that interest for animal welfare? Where did it come from?

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Man, I have always been a lover of animals. I can remember always begging my parents to get us

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a companion animal, a dog. And it's just always been there. It really has. I always thought that

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I wanted to be a veterinarian. That shortly changed after my first year of college. But I

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definitely just have always had that love. At around 10, that's when I began to adopt a pescetarian

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lifestyle. My parents were completely just thrown for a loop. They were like, what is she doing?

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It's just a phase. It's going to go away. But over time, that turned into vegetarianism and then

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veganism, which I used to say, I don't know if I can ever make that step. I can't take away dairy.

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But it happened. And I wish I had had done it sooner. But definitely that love for animals.

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And then that ability to see that there definitely was a division between our system.

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Where there were those companion animals that got that love and respect and that care.

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Whereas farm animals did not get that. So understanding that there definitely was that

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line that was existing and that that needed to be erased. That's what really prompted me to go vegan.

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And seeing the treatment of the animals within factory farming, big farms, small farms, all of

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it is just so egregious. So wanting to do something about that as well. I love your answer because I

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can relate. I had the same experience. I want to say I was born with that compassion and

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it was present when I was a little kid. And I love asking this question, but I always have in mind that

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maybe people are distant to be vegan in a way. They have some qualities innate to them that

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make them more attracted to this, to veganism, to animal welfare.

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So yeah, it's a whole debate. How did Farm Transition Academy come to exist? And should

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I understand that your very existence implies that there is a growing number of farmers

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abandoning animal exploitation?

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Yes. So just to answer that last question, absolutely. There are many farmers who are

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becoming aware of the system, whether they feel as though they are being used as a pawn in the game

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for some agriculture businesses to gain funding while they are lower on this totem pole. And they

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don't want anything to do with it anymore. Now, of course, this number is growing, but it still is a

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very small number. When you look at areas like California and out west and maybe some areas in

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the south as well, there are more farmers that are transitioning, but it definitely is different for

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each state, which is important to keep in mind. And when it comes to Farm Transition Academy,

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we began in the year 2021, and it first started with Tatiana Rainboppin and Mira Geyser, two animal

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rights activists. And so they began talking about how they could help farmers. And it began as a

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thought of educating farmers and educating animal rights activists in the field, because there

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really is a division between animal rights activists and those in the agriculture industry.

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Some who see animal rights activists, they see us as people who are wanting to completely burn

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their industry down. But for many of us, that's not the case. And for Tati, Mira, and I, we want

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to tell them that there are other ways that you can live more sustainably and work more sustainably

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without having these different implications. And we can be here to support you. And we want to work

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with those other animal rights activists to tell them that it is okay to support farmers to make

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that transition, because there definitely is this taboo around animal farmers and how they don't

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deserve respect if they're doing what they're doing. But at the end of the day, many of them are

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oppressed as well, and they need that help out of the industry. So that's why FTA began. And then

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once we got our logo, once we got our website, and we had our first mentoring program and our first

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workshop, that's when we really began to evolve into moving towards the path that we want to.

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I had a very good friend, and she was a farmer, you know, her family, they were all farmers for

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generation, dairy farmers. And when I became vegan, you know, it was tough to deal with that, to

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have conversations with her around, you know, why are you vegan? You know, are you threatening my

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livelihood, the livelihood of my family? And I was trying to, you know, get around that and try to

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find our common, to remember our friendship and find our common humanity through this,

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this very sensitive issue. Yeah, I think that among vegans, there is this animosity toward

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farmers. And I think that generally in society, we have some pretty weird misconceptions about

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farmers. And a good example of that is that image of farmers being uneducated, you know,

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they're stupid people. And what they're doing doesn't require a lot of brain power. I remember,

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I think there was this whole controversy with Michael Bloomberg, basically, talking in those

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terms, I think about the agrarian society lasted 3000 years. And we could teach processes I could

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teach anybody, even people in this room, so no offense intended to be a farmer, you it's a

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process, you dig a hole, you put a seed in, you put dirt on top, add water up comes the corn,

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the information economy is fundamentally different, you have to have a different skill set,

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you have to have a lot more gray matter. But I want to get an idea of what is the

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But I want to get an idea, you know, a realistic idea of what it is like to be a farmer and

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what is the industry like. And I want to ask you, you know, in your line of work,

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you are in contact with workers from the animal industry. Can you tell us about who they really

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are and what they are experiencing in their everyday life? Yeah, so with our work with Farm

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Transition Academy, we have had the opportunity to speak with farm workers and farmers in the

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industry. And although I would not consider myself an animal farmer, I would not consider

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myself an animal farmer at all. I cannot directly speak from their standpoint. But what I can do is

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try to tell their stories that they have allowed us to tell. And one of those individuals is Cesar

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Alonso, who lives in who lived in Canada, and who still lives in Canada, who worked at a

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slaughterhouse. And there he explained the horrors of just everyday work, witnessing animals,

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having their last breath or having their lives taken away from them. And at that point, Cesar

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was having those beliefs that the work he was doing was not right. He wanted to definitely

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get away out. At some point, he was taking cows up to five cows at a time to come live with him

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in his small home, just to protect their life until he could get them to a sanctuary. And he

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ended up becoming a whistleblower for it was Cedar Valley Farms. And there became just a ripple of

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effects that came after that, good and bad, some legal action and some help getting his voice heard.

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And then of course, him going vegan. And just from speaking out about this industry, he was able to

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make incredible change. But the reality is that for many of these farm workers, because there is a

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difference between farmers and farm workers, many farm workers are working, of course, under those

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farmers, and they do not have access to the same amount of support, funding as these farmers do.

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It can be very difficult for them to wiggle around that power imbalance between farmers and farm

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workers. And it is definitely an industry or a career that can be very oppressive at times.

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Some of these farm workers are people of color. They are undocumented immigrants. And so they have

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this way of silencing themselves because they have fears of the implications surrounding if they were

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to speak out. And it is very easy for these companies to kind of use that silence because

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they are targeted to keep them silent and to keep them doing their dirty work. And so these industries

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are definitely not signed by any means. The 40-year vegan or David is very popular within the vegan

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movement when it comes to telling his story about how he once worked within the agriculture industry

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within a slaughterhouse. He shares that he had such terrors going into work every single day,

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knowing that his beliefs were changing, yet he still felt as though he had to do this work.

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And a lot of these farm workers and farmers justify their work because they see it as a

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attachment to making money. Many of them have to make a living. And when society sees killing

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non-human animals as a way of surviving and as an acceptable means of sustaining yourself,

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then it's very difficult for these farmers to not go against the grain. And there also is another

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aspect that FT loves to talk about, and it's about that community of farmers. When you are living in

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a community where you're maybe 30 miles away from these grocery stores or from these other areas of

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city life, then it's easy to hear those voices around you and to have that constant framing and

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priming of information where you're not seeing other areas of veganism and sustainability and

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environmentalism. So for a lot of these farmers, we are trying to educate them on the other areas

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of sustainability, other than regenerative agriculture or feeding animals something different

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in their diet. There is a completely way of not using animals at all by any means. So it

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definitely is difficult. Now, this of course isn't the case for all farmers and for farm workers.

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Many of them are aware of what they're doing, but we definitely do want to give attention to those

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that are stuck in this cycle. So do you target farm owners like from smaller farms, or do you also

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target the big fish, the big industries, farm industries? And do you also interact with farm

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workers, or is your target the owners of the industry?

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So at FT, we have mainly interacted with farm workers. We have spoken with some farmers as well,

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but FT is still definitely building up to the point where we can bring on farmers and give them

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that access to every area of transitioning because it's not a cheap process. Further on down the line,

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I would love to speak with you about funding because it is very difficult for these farmers

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to get access to forms of monies that will allow them to transition successfully. But yes, so we

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don't necessarily work with those corporate organizations. We do talk to them about how we

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can help them get through this. We do talk about those issues, but haven't gotten to the point where

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we're willing to reach out to them specifically and offer them this five-year plan or tell them

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change this or else. So it definitely is a slower process for that. And another thing that we like

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to do is to make ourselves known. Let farmers know, let animal agriculturists know, let all

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that there is a way to make that transition happen. But we want them to reach out to us instead of

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necessarily targeting. We want to allow ourselves to be that invitation and to let them know that

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it is okay to ask for help. And change does happen. Sometimes it happens slow, but there is a way out

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of this industry. If you see that you are in debt, that you're struggling, that's another thing as

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well. A lot of farmers, they are in debt. Farming is a very pricey career to be in. And sometimes

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it's not always reciprocal money-wise. Sometimes there are some seasons where you are not bringing

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in a high enough amount of funding or grants or your harvest for your crop production was not that

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high for you and your farm. So there definitely are those barriers that those farmers do face.

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So definitely just being aware about those issues before we reach out to anyone. We also do recognize

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that for many farmers of color, some of them are not land owners. As someone who is a person of color

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and living in Kentucky, I definitely do recognize the disparity between farmers of color and then

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those white farmers that are owning their land. So the conversation is completely different when

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you're talking about indigenous people and when you're talking about farmers of color,

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because that connection to their land might be that much more different than that of a white farmer

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because they might just now be getting land ownership versus farmers who have had that in

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their family for generations. And tell me if I'm wrong, but I think that the suicide rates among

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farmers is very high. Yes, yes. Suicide rate among the farmer community, it is very, very high.

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So yes, thank you for kind of bringing that in because that's another barrier that we have to

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speak on. It's a very sad fact. And when you look at the amount of farmers just in the United States,

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which is around 1.7%, a very small percentage, that's a very high fact to associate with that

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kind of work. And yes, so just those different aspects are all things that have to be present

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within a conversation or at least in the back of your mind. We talk about these things within our

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workshops because sometimes you're going up to go speak with a farmer, whether it's at a farmer's

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market or reaching out to them on Instagram, they definitely do have the, they have a way of pulling

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back of leading the conversation. You are invited in a conversation with them and you only have

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sometimes a certain amount of time in order to pull them in to get that conversation started.

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So how can you do that in the most effective way without causing any discord? Because at the end

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of the day, we are doing this for the animals, whether you're a non-human animal or human animal,

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because we want to see that change towards more just world. And I think I had that feeling,

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reading your mission statement on your website, that you were also thinking about the farmers

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that were going to read that. I mean, this is not, when I read it, it was not like a vegan manifesto,

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something very radical that would turn off farmers that would read it. So did I have the

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right impression here? Yes, absolutely. You did. And I thank you for seeing that. I think that

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that's something that FGE has tried to work hard in. And how can we be a resource for farmers

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without turning them away? Because within the animal rights movement, there definitely is enough

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of that. And there are people out there that think that we're not being hard enough as an organization,

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then a farmer could scroll down and they can get that. So there definitely needs to be that balance

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in between the movement where there are these places where farmers can come to to get that

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assistance. And that doesn't mean that FGE is going to be completely compliant on all these

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different things. Absolutely not. You can go on our website to see our mission. We're completely

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against the abuse and cruelty and exploitation of animals. But a way to make change is to hit

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the area where it's happening. And that is farming. When we go into our grocery stores to consume

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these, to consume the flesh of animals and the abuse, the results, their secretions,

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all these different things, we are seeing a production and that is the farming industry.

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So how can we hit that sector and make change effectively? And that's exactly what we're

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attempting to do. And that's truly amazing. I want to go back to that, causing harm to animals.

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How do farmers, farm workers rationalize their actions when they are hurting animals, exploiting

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them? What are some of the justifications they come up with? Because some of them might want to

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go to take their distance from that industry, but they might not be vegan. So have you heard about

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that inner story they tell themselves about their actions? Yes. And just from stories and just from

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learning about different farmers' experience, it is a very sad situation. Once again, there are some

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farmers who understand what they're doing and they haven't yet reached that point where they're

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willing to change. And FDA probably won't get target those groups yet because there are that

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many other farmers that are wanting to get that assistance or wanting to get that help out of the

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industry, farm workers included. And so a lot of them rationalize it once again, because it is legal

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to do so. And for some farmers with farming, I think it's a very interesting line of work because

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it has been a part of our existence since we've been here on this earth. And so it's a matter of

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going back to our roots in a way for a lot of these farmers when it comes to food. It's something

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that each of us have to eat. And for some workers who are producing this food, they don't see eating

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plant-based as a sufficient ways of eating. Within their work, they think that meat has to be part of

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that staple diet. And that goes for all countries in a way. And so for many of them, they just see

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it as something that is justifiable because it's legal and because it is a cultural thing. And it's

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unfortunate, of course, because we know that that's not the case. I mean, there can be a very healthy

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diet that does not rely on the lives of animals, but it definitely is a matter of educating farmers

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on that, educating these federations and bureaus that are instilling this mindset in farmers that

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your work is just so important and integral to the way of living, that there is no way that we could

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survive without you. So there definitely is that pride also that these farmers and farm workers

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are getting, that their work is just top of the line and without them, there would be no us

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because they are producing food for us. And once again, with the farming industry being such a

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small percentage of different workforces, there also is another line of pride and of self-pride

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and self-awareness of what they're doing to supply the food sector. Another thing too is that animals

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are not these living, breathing, sentient beings that we know them to be within the agriculture

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industry. Their lives are just completely reduced to nothing as if they are nothing more than

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livestock, quote unquote. That's where that term comes from, living stock on a shelf. And it's such

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a very interesting thing when you look into it because those things are perpetuated and that

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kind of science allows farmers to continue to do the work that they do because they're not really

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seen as animals with personalities as we know them to be. This is such an important point because

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every time I think about farm animals, I think about the farm animals I see in my Instagram feed

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from farm sanctuaries. They look happy, they're surrounded, they're active, they're truly alive.

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But it is true that when you are in that machine, in that industry, you're just a shadow of yourself

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as an animal. And you might, in the eyes of a farm worker, be perceived as less than because

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of the conditions in which you are, because of how that trauma made you into something else,

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something else less than. So yeah, what's an interesting point?

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Thank you. Yes, very, very true. Once again, and just when you're looking at how these animals

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are treated within the animal agriculture industry, they're taught to be no more than a number.

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They're taught to be no more than a face behind a barbed wire or within a cage. And so that autonomy,

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that personality is completely stripped away from each of them. And another thing as well is that

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for a lot of these farmers, they are bringing these animals into the world with forcible

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impregnation. So they kind of see that as I'm bringing these animals into this world and I'm

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taking them out, this is part of my job, they have no autonomy. So those are just little things that

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really do create a very upsetting implication on the lives of these animals and on the lives

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of animal rights activists as well, because their lives are just being completely erased as nothing

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more than a number or nothing more than a package label. This is so twisted, such a twisted situation.

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We talked about the prejudices we can have about farmers. But how do workers of the animal industry

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perceive the vegan animal welfare movement? Does it register as a threat? Or is it something like

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a craze? They look at those vegans and they think, what madness? So could you tell us about that?

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Yeah. So within the agriculture industry, it would be untrue of me to say that there definitely is

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this, not this idea of what a vegan is. And for some, that's a militant individual that is trying

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to ruin the agriculture industry that is attempting to take away farmers' livelihood.

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We are these woke individuals that are attempting to change the world with our ways of sustainability

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and alternative methods. And that in some ways, it's extremely false because we, especially Farm

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Transition Academy, we're doing this work because we are supporters of farmers. I think that farming

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is one of the most incredible jobs there is, except it's just the way that we are doing it.

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We are doing it in a very unsustainable way. We're doing it in a way that is not creating reciprocity

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for our land, that is completely going against any form of growth for 50 years to come, that is

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doing something that is just not viable for our land. And that is animal agriculture. And of course,

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it's important to pay attention to the forms of plant-based agriculture that are also just as

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cruel to farm workers. And yeah, so we definitely do see these issues within the animal agriculture

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industry. And to tie back to your point, yes, many farmers do see us as a threat to their livelihood.

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And when we also look into the government, some vegans, veganism is not always accepted into

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that sphere. We're also seen as just a group that is trying to push backwards and trying to create

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change that is not going to happen. But we do see our change happening. We do see a lot of these

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areas adopting plant-based living. And yeah, so it's a very unfortunate situation that we are

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perceived this way. But there is definitely a way out of this. And that's to continue to educate

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ourselves, to educate those in power, and to continue to create change that way. We don't

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want to be seen as militant. We want to be seen as people with power, people who are able to create

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change, people with a vision, visionaries, and people with innovation as well. Because once again,

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there are so many vegans who were once in the boots of those who are farmers, farming animals.

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FTA has had the opportunity to meet so many farmers who were once dairy farmers and beef farmers,

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and to see that they have completely changed their lives around for the better. It's just a

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direct testimony that although you once lived a certain way, doesn't mean that has to be the way

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forever. And you know, I have to say, I've seen posts of vegan organizations celebrating when a

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farm goes bankrupt, or when a Tizen factory closes its door forever. And do you think this is helpful?

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Or do you think that this is harmful for the movement to openly celebrate the closing those

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industry centers?

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You know, that's a really, really good question. FTA also recognizes that there definitely is the

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separation between how some farmers or some animal rights activists that are trying to help farmers

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view the industry, and then how some other vegans who are just very, you know, their hearts and

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their anger and passion is leading them to just attack the industry in all different ways, which

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I think can be an understandable passion. Because when you see how these animals are treated, it can

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lead you to go a lot of different routes of trying to bring them to autonomy of their own bodies.

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But at the end of the day, it's not always constructive to be doing these things, because

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we are pushing a lot of these farmers away from our movement. And at the end of the day, there are

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those farmers and farm workers specifically, that are affected by this, those undocumented immigrants,

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those farmers of color, those individuals who don't have a voice like you and I might have to

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speak out against these injustices because of fear of consequences. So understanding that there is a

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victim in that as well, beside those animals, that I believe could redirect a lot of these vegans to

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changing the way that they see how these industries are shutting down. Now, when we see these

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industries shut down, of course, that is a form that is telling us that the world is changing.

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However, we still of course have to stay aware of those victims involved. The example that I

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brought up, when we think about food empowerment projects and how they are fighting against

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Amy's Kitchen because of their cruelty to their workers. And that industry, Amy's Kitchen is a

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vegan and vegetarian business. However, just because they are vegan and vegetarian doesn't

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mean that they are cruelty free. And I think that that goes back into how plant-based production

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also needs those changes as well. It's not perfect just because it isn't directly taking the lives

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of animals. And when we saw that Amy's Kitchen shut down one of their locations in California,

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yes, of course, the work that they were doing did come to a cease and desist at that specific

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location, meaning that those industry workers cannot be directly hurt anymore because they

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weren't working at that location. We still saw that they were suffering just because you are

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no longer in that position doesn't mean that those other extra factors of just life are taking care

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of. They are not. Those workers went back to having to figure out how they would pay bills,

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how they would take care of their children, all these other areas that become gray and that become

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muddied when these factories close down. And the Farm Transition Academy wants to get to the point

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where when these factories close, we can be there guiding those farm workers into other forms of

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plant-based work or just completely new area of working. We want to have those resources and we

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want to be able to offer them those services because it's not easy trying to find different

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routes and ways of working when you have been a part of an industry for so long. And another point

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I want to bring up talking about the rationalization of just this work that they're doing.

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A lot of these farmers are exposed to PTSD and other forms of trauma and depression and mental

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health issues and that just cloudiness creates another barrier of how they're ever going to

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even leave the industry. Having to go back home after a day's work of splitting throats of

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shooting animals with bolt guns and all these different things are just complete.

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They're very inhumane and they're just such heinous ways of life and no person should have to go

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through that. And the fact that a lot of these individuals that are undocumented immigrants are

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targeted I think shows a direct representation of the industry. So yes, there's so many effects

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from the animal agriculture industry that creates another barrier once again and it creates an

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obstacle for these farmers where they feel as if they have no other choice. I get the impression

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from hearing you that there is really no winner with this industry. The workers are losing

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the animals of course, first victims of this industry. And also you point out as an organization

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that there are other harmful effects of the animal agriculture industry. That this is not just about

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being ethical to animals. There are very negative impacts for the earth, for the planet,

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for the environment. So could you tell us about that?

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Yeah, so soil exploitation, water depletion, deforestation, food injustice, worker injustice,

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those are just a few of the ways that the animal agriculture industry is creating a negative effect

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for this planet. And we have to be aware of those things. There was a study by a doctor,

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Salish Rowe, that wrote that around 87% of greenhouse gas emissions are caused from the

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animal agriculture industry or have been caused by the animal agriculture industry due to its lack

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of awareness of just what it is emitting into the world and having a want for profit over what it

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is actually sustainable and humane. And all of these things have created such negative adverse

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effects for our planet where we are looking at increasing populations and where we're looking at

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having just such negative climate change effects by the year 2050 that we have to make an impact

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right now at this very moment. I believe that the animal agriculture industry is also creating a

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social crux within our society when we have all these areas of individuals who are in the

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areas of individuals who are fighting for what they think is right for the planet and what they

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think is sustainable. I would love for us to all be on one path where we are fighting for the same

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thing, fighting for animals, fighting for justice, but with industries like the animal agriculture

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industry and with so much money being poured into just these voices and into these campaigns,

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being poured into the farm bill for 2025 for just these different areas of politics and for

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you know gain, right gain, it really does just create this division socially which is another

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effect of this industry and with time I do believe change can come from it but

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when it comes to veganism we are still a very baby movement even though we have created

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such amazing change all around the world there still are so many things that we have to tackle

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now or work towards tackling. So without a doubt there are these irreversible in some ways effects

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that the animal agriculture is bringing. Those animals lives will never be able to be brought

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back. When it comes to rewilding which is something FTA is very for, rewilding is the action of

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taking land that has been devastated by animal agriculture, by climate change and giving it time

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to regrow back to a state of how it once was many many years ago and so in order to get to those

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points yeah we definitely have to keep championing for this cause but yeah. Yeah this is shocking

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you know when you address all of those issues the word that comes up in my mind is evil.

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It's a very religious word truly I don't know a better word to describe this

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all the harm this industry is causing. Another word related to this conversation is redemption

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and I want to talk about why do some of those workers, those farm workers, those farmers decide

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to abandon their line of work for a more ethical sustainable economic activity. What motivated them

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to make that transition and I know we touched on that but you know at first I was asking myself

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why aren't more workers making that transition but then I realized from conversations with

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people like you that there's the money aspect of it, there's the cultural aspect of it and

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you pointed out that there's also a psychological you know mental health aspect of it. So now I'm

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truly wondering why do some people decide to make that transition despite all of those forces

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stopping them to make it. Where is their conviction coming from when they are just surrounded

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you know in their environment with other farm workers and you know the whole propaganda around

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this industry. So do you have an idea of why they made that change, why they distanced themselves

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from their industry? Yeah that's an excellent question and I really don't always know the

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answer to that. I think that for each farmer it definitely is different but I think that it

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does boil down a lot of the times to just one common ground which is that these farmers are

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realizing what they're doing and they're realizing that it's not sustainable for the animal, for the

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planet or financially. As I mentioned farming has such a high debt association attached to it.

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Many of these farmers do want to wait out financially and when they see that the plant-based

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industry is skyrocketing by the billions and is expected to reach around I believe it is 70 billion

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by the year 2050 if not sooner then there definitely is a way to create a change by changing

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your production and for some farmers when they see the option of harvesting and growing and

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planting soybean versus trying to take the life of 500 heads of cattle or with chickens it definitely

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becomes an easy answer for them once they have made that connection to how animal agriculture is

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so devastating and for some farmers it is just years and years of compounded debt association

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that is finally coming to light when they're realizing how many lives are they they've taken

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the deals they have made they are beginning to see that there is an option and also farm transitions

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is a fairly new conversation when you look at the time year span when you look at 50 years ago this

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was not a conversation that was being had when you even look at veganism these weren't conversations

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that were being had when you talk about the rights of animals and as they're moving towards a point

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where these conversations are becoming more widespread and more prolific and then these

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farmers are beginning to see that there are those alternatives out there but at the end of the day

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this is still a small change that's happening and even just one farmer wakes up one morning or farm

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worker wakes up one morning and they begin to understand that the lives that they are taking

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taking is not right then I think that that is a major step towards justice for these animals

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and they often talk about the tipping point you know an experience particular experience that

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made them realize that how do you help those but first I want to ask do some of them become vegan

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in their personal life does that you know desire to distance themselves from their economic activity

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also translates to a desire to adopt in their personal life a vegan lifestyle

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a vegan lifestyle yeah so um through the work I've done I have not met an individual that has

392
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:43,920
transitioned over into plant-based farming that has not adopted a vegan lifestyle now not to say

393
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:51,680
that a lot of farm workers who are transitioning don't adopt a vegan or do don't always adopt a

394
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:56,560
vegan lifestyle um it's not the case I mean many of them might transition over and they may not

395
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:02,320
still see it necessary to eat vegan but the ones that I have associated myself with the one that

396
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:07,440
FDA has reached out to the ones that we have met all of them have become vegan because I believe

397
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:12,720
it's very difficult for them to make that change and make that understanding without making that

398
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:16,880
change within their lifestyle and their ethics because it is an ethical awareness that is now

399
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:22,320
happening for them and now I think it's also interesting because the way that farm transition

400
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,880
academy talks about farm transitions is a way of doing it for the animals and doing it for

401
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:35,280
your ethics but there also is just that um a term within agriculture of a farmer transitioning or

402
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:42,000
farmer taking over their farmer to um or um giving their farmer giving their farm to their next

403
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:48,800
generation and that is also considered a farm transition so um I think that as we hopefully

404
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:54,160
farm transitioning how do we once we get bigger I hope that our term can become more prolific

405
00:44:54,160 --> 00:45:00,080
um whereas farmers associate farm transitions with going um or turning your farm into a vegan farm

406
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:07,680
instead of the latter where farm transitions are just a means of um either turning over to

407
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:19,440
um chicken using chickens instead of um cattle or um giving your farm over to your next um kin

408
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:25,200
or something like that we definitely want to use farm transitions as a much broader stronger term

409
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:32,000
because that's what I do believe it is. And you talked about uh an economic pressure to plant-based

410
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:40,560
diet uh products demand and so I love hearing that because it means that becoming vegan works

411
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:50,560
we are shaping the economy to uh our values. Yes absolutely um yeah when you like once again

412
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:56,240
just look at the timeline of veganism and um of just like the things associated associated with

413
00:45:56,240 --> 00:46:01,920
it so grocery stores um just seeing all the new plant-based products that are being put into these

414
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:07,680
stores the amount of animal sanctuaries that are popping up in every it seems like every area I

415
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:13,520
think of that is just a direct testimony that veganism is the future plant-based is the future

416
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:19,760
um of those plant-based production foods and then of course farm transitions are the future um times

417
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:25,760
are truly changing where we're seeing a direct input into these more sustainable industries and

418
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:31,280
that's happening um I think in some ways just subconsciously I mean veganism and plant-based

419
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:37,360
foods are becoming a default for a lot of um for a lot of places and that is a very beautiful thing.

420
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:47,360
Yes it is uh so now the question I wanted to ask earlier um about the process itself how do you help

421
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:58,000
help those workers um from you know leaving their industry to adopting a new harm-free sustainable

422
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:08,720
business venture? Yes so the biggest thing for Farm Transition Academy is to use export expertise.

423
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:16,080
I personally am growing within the agriculture field agribusiness field about learning how these

424
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:22,720
systems correlate with each other how we can make a plant-based future happen um while also

425
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:29,760
intersecting into the um animal agriculture field and making change that way so seeing how these

426
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:37,360
things connect with each other and then also with Tati um she is very specialized with um outreach

427
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:42,400
and with knowing how these just different businesses work she has quite a bit of experience

428
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:48,160
with farm transition groups over in Europe and then Nira she is a dedicated animal rights activist

429
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:53,440
as we all are um she has been in this movement for quite some time um and she knows how these

430
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:59,680
communication systems work with farmers she knows the exact questions to ads how to reach out to them

431
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:04,880
on social media or in person to get these conversations going so with that expertise

432
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:12,480
we have on top of just working with um other agriculturalists in the industry who are vegan

433
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:18,560
animal sanctuaries who have been in this line of work for years that is truly how we make change

434
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:24,640
and I mean Farm Transition Academy we're only a group of three people so definitely leaning out

435
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:30,000
into those areas where this work has been going on for so long is a big way that we're able to

436
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:34,720
help these farmers if they ever were to come to us or we ever were to reach out to them and getting

437
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:40,400
them in contact with these groups and getting them people to consult with um offering them resources

438
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:46,880
to be able to make that change um once again the biggest thing for us right now is funding um money

439
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:52,400
is such an important thing when you're dealing with these types of um endeavors um as fun as it

440
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:57,680
is to not um say I mean it's not fun to try to say that you know we have to have money for it um

441
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:04,480
I think FDA's hope is that the government one day would pay for these types of things um as just

442
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:13,280
like um a subsidiary or a um just a way of helping the planet um but we're not there yet so um on top

443
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,360
of all these consultations and offering our resources whether it's non-profit groups that

444
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:24,240
are helping farm workers um translate language um and helping them find those short-term jobs

445
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:29,120
as they're leaving the industry all those things are so important um but of course making sure

446
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:36,480
that those farmers have um some kind of support um for the meantime is also um how we can continue

447
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:41,840
our work within um creating the sustainable business plan for these farmers. I think you're

448
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:49,280
an amazing group I mean by the way you told me how you know you study you're studying agriculture

449
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:58,560
uh in college and it's funny to think that the people around you are future workers of this industry

450
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:10,240
but you are uh like this vegan and anomaly uh in in your class and yeah I mean how do you um

451
00:50:10,240 --> 00:50:20,000
um as this you know little group making a difference um how do you you know in terms of feelings and um

452
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:27,760
just you know your your mental state um how do you feel about the work you're doing?

453
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:36,000
I feel very proud about the work that we're doing um I think that we definitely want to

454
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:41,360
shape our organization to be able to do so much more and make those connections to be able to do

455
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:46,400
that much more as well um but you definitely do have to have a starting point and I'm just so

456
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,560
happy with the work that we've done we've been able to work with Harvard University to launch

457
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:58,320
their first course on food and environment we've been able to have lectures and webinars and um

458
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:05,040
mentoring sessions with really um important names in this industry that are making very big

459
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:10,480
impactful change um we've been able to create our own website um we've been able to gain the

460
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:18,160
support of some members at my own university and yes being in this um field of work and trying to

461
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:24,240
make a change in the animal agriculture industry in Kentucky of all places definitely is um it's

462
00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:28,560
definitely something that I think needs to be talked about more but I think for me it gives me

463
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:34,480
this leverage to be able to relate with those farmers to say yes once I was an FFA yes I did

464
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:41,440
you know have these conversations with my advisors and with farm workers who um you know well we

465
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:46,160
talked about this industry where we you know talked about um you know the different treatment

466
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:53,120
of animals and where I also had to you know work on these um farms at my university I understand

467
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:57,920
the pain that comes along with it but I was able to make change for myself and it is possible for

468
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:03,200
you to do the same of course at a different level um but I think that that truly does give me leverage

469
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:09,280
to say that I I I understand the spirit of this experience I'm still part of the experience every

470
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,920
single day I walk into my one of my ag classes or go out to our farm um I see these things that

471
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:18,400
are happening every single day and I think that definitely does give me the ability to relate

472
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:23,680
with these farmers at a different level um because I'm in this industry and I'm not someone that's

473
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:28,240
completely outside of that that's trying to understand how the system works um I'm someone

474
00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:34,160
who wants to be a part of it so yeah I hope that answers your question for that yes and I have

475
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:44,880
last one about this um I know many vegans uh who are deeply upset and um angry about uh the animal

476
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:53,600
industry and you're in constant contact with uh this industry and you're forced to uh go beyond

477
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:59,440
you know judging them you you need to understand them and you need to speak their language uh and

478
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:08,560
in in order to reach them and you have seen those people uh make changes amazing changes uh in in

479
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:17,040
the way they do things um I don't know if you ever felt that anger that upset but uh did your line of

480
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:26,240
work ever you know help you with with that anger with that um outrage um or is it something that

481
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:34,400
increased it I'm genuinely curious about that yeah so that's a really good question um I think

482
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:42,720
that with the work that we do um just understanding that there are forces against us I think is really

483
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:50,400
hurtful um and that is hard um having such a love for agriculture but just wanting it to be different

484
00:53:50,400 --> 00:54:01,360
um it definitely creates this weird dynamic in my head um because as someone who is seeing how this

485
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:07,200
industry is harming so many people I just want them to see that as well and for those that do I

486
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:13,120
want them to care about it because for a lot of these government business um these government agencies

487
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:19,600
or these farm bureaus or um whatever the case is they're understanding that this this work is

488
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:24,240
happening but they're not making that clear cut connection between the life of that animal

489
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:33,680
and so there definitely are times where I do feel um upset but that anger is put into I believe a

490
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:42,960
positive light to keep me going because there you have to be able to be articulate um in more ways

491
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:47,920
than one with that anger if you want to see change so I don't let that stop me and let that keep

492
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:54,960
pushing me um I let my ability to be different and to think different push me to um be a better

493
00:54:54,960 --> 00:55:00,160
advocate because I think that us being vegan is such a powerful thing that we're able to see

494
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:05,760
outside the system that we're able to see the many areas of just injustice that are happening that

495
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:12,000
we're able to see that detail and understand that this system you know is perpetuating such a nasty

496
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:18,080
negative future um and that is our own leverage that allows us to make change and to create this

497
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:24,400
whole little um empire that we're making right now with the vegan movement of just such incredible

498
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:31,760
activists and people and supporters and donors and just you know all these great people um that

499
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:37,120
are just visionaries and that gives me the hope to keep pushing even through the days that I'm

500
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:44,000
upset that I'm feeling um defeated um you know that those are the things that truly do you know

501
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:49,120
keep me going and of course seeing the end goal of seeing each and every animal free seeing each

502
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:55,600
um human animal working in a place where they feel happy and fulfilled um those are all things that

503
00:55:55,600 --> 00:56:02,720
I think really make me excited to keep going and excited to graduate um because um I think that

504
00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:08,080
there is a difference that can be heard and that can happen. Amazing thank you for sharing.

505
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:15,600
Thank you so much. So you talked about um funding and how this was important for your organization

506
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:25,840
so I think you are having right now a fundraising campaign. So how can we help? How can we support

507
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:32,480
your initiative? Yes well thank you so much for asking um Farm Transition Academy just began our

508
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:39,360
August crowdfunding um campaign where we um all throughout the month of August are asking anyone

509
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:44,720
to donate anything that they can because whatever the figure is it's going to make a humongous

510
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:50,880
impact for our organization. We're currently attempting to raise five thousand dollars um so

511
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:58,480
that we can offer free presentations and um workshops for those the agriculture industry

512
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:05,680
um and for farm workers and um sorry those um so those animal rights activists because we want

513
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:09,840
everyone to be able to have access to the work that we're doing everyone deserves to have access

514
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:16,160
and we also at the same time want to grow our business and want to make a living for um each

515
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:24,160
of us at FTA because we believe so reverently in our work so we want to be able to um have those

516
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:31,680
funds there's also those operational costs like zoom and our website and um our LLC which we just

517
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:38,400
recently got last year all these costs are going to be coming up in the next year and um we also

518
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:44,880
have a very strong non-profit arm about our group so you know just asking for donations it's just

519
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:51,440
one way that we think that um we can give people the opportunity to make change for farm transitions

520
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:56,320
and to be a part of this movement um because um I see this as something that can really be

521
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:03,840
such a game changer for those farmers so yes we are crowdfunding um so anything that you like

522
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:11,040
to donate you can visit us at www.farmtransitionacademy.com once you click the banner at the top you can go to our

523
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:18,240
crowdfunding website you can also visit us at um farm transition academy on website on instagram

524
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:26,000
on facebook on our linkedin as well to give a direct link to our crowdfunding page and there

525
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:31,760
you can have access to what we're doing see how the day she can help we have a breakdown of what

526
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:36,080
ten dollars can do for our business what fifty dollars can do for our business with 25

527
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:41,440
100 75 dollars can do for our business and so that way we're very transparent about how your

528
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:47,360
donation will be assisting us um but truly anything would help us um once again we are very new

529
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:52,320
and we're still trying to find our footing so we want to get to a point where we are able to help

530
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:58,080
farmers um and not limit them to what they can do and to be able to reach out to those resources

531
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:03,920
so by donating to donating to us or just by following our website um or our instagram at

532
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:10,320
farm transition academy um you'll be making tremendous impact for our days so yes and of

533
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:16,880
course uh a link will be provided in the description below so uh just visit the description

534
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:25,280
so kennedy thank you so much i had such a nice time uh talking with you and learning more about

535
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:33,200
uh farm transition thank you so much ryan it was so fantastic talking with you really appreciate

536
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:41,120
this thank you everyone for listening i hope you got something from this conversation i invite you

537
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:48,160
to share this episode with family and friends make them discover the good work of farm transition

538
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:59,040
academy i'm very excited for next week because we have on the team behind egg-truth.com and i'm

539
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:07,120
taking you behind the scene of the egg making process and i promise you you are going to learn

540
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:14,080
things the poultry industry definitely does not want you to hear so subscribe now become a friend

541
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:21,920
of this show and don't miss out on new episodes finally you can always reach me on instagram

542
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:44,880
at veganreportpodcast thank you again for listening take care and see you next tuesday