1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,480
Hello everyone, my name is Ryan and you're listening to The Vegan Report.

2
00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:12,000
If you're vegan for the animals and you care to do more for animal rights, but you're not sure

3
00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:18,880
where to start, then this podcast is for you. Every week, let yourself fall in love with

4
00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:25,840
passionate animal rights leaders who will inspire you to find your voice, your own special

5
00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:32,960
contribution to the animal rights movement, however small or big it is. Today we are going

6
00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:40,320
to talk about strategies to convert people to veganism and the health criticism for being vegan.

7
00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:48,400
To tackle all of these topics and more, you will hear me talk with Chris. Chris is one of the vegans

8
00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:55,920
I have interviewed for the veteran vegan series of this podcast, where I ask long-time vegans

9
00:00:55,920 --> 00:01:03,680
some burning, challenging and important questions. Chris is a teacher who became vegan for health

10
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:11,440
reasons more than 14 years ago. I truly, truly enjoyed talking with him. If you want to know

11
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:16,240
more about him, you will find his Instagram handle in the description below.

12
00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:20,160
Hello. Welcome Chris. Thank you very much for being here.

13
00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,120
Thanks for having me. Let's start with an introduction.

14
00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:34,000
Could you please introduce yourself? Sure. My name is Chris. I'm a 53-year-old guy. I teach

15
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:43,760
and live in Central Connecticut in the USA. Yes. I posted an ad on the subreddit vegan

16
00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:50,320
and you decided to answer that ad and participate in a conversation about veganism.

17
00:01:51,040 --> 00:02:00,480
So just out of curiosity, why did you want to share your experience of being vegan with the world?

18
00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:07,760
Well, I mean, I feel for me it's been a positive experience. If I can go into a little backstory

19
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:15,280
for you at this point, about 2009, February, I was in a car accident. Nothing critical,

20
00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:21,120
but enough that I had to go to physical therapy and go through things. Years before that point,

21
00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:26,880
my doctor was always like, your cholesterol is too high, lower your cholesterol. And on my way to

22
00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:31,920
physical therapy one night, I heard an interview on NPR with a guy named Rip Esselstyn, who was

23
00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:38,880
behind the engine two diet, which is plant-based, not vegan. And he was a firefighter and triathlete

24
00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:43,120
and eats plants. And I was like, you know, I can try that for a month. I mean, how hard can that be?

25
00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:49,680
And so I did it for a month and I felt really good. And I went two months more and my cholesterol

26
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:55,920
dropped 60 points. I dropped about 30 pounds, about four inches of my waist. And I was like,

27
00:02:55,920 --> 00:03:03,760
okay, this is going to be it. And so April 5th, 2009, I had chicken. And April 6th, 2009, I didn't.

28
00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:10,160
And since that date, I've had nothing but animal. I also read Animal Liberation, some other books

29
00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:16,960
since that time shortly after that. And then I didn't buy any more animal products for clothing,

30
00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:23,120
for shoes, for other kinds of stuff. And so I have phased those things out. And I don't serve animal

31
00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:31,600
products in my house. I don't eat them out places. I bring vegan food to places and encourage people

32
00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,680
that way. I find the people who are kind of in your face, you know, dominion kind of stuff. It's a

33
00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:40,640
little like, but I find that if you show up somebody and you go, look at, here's cookies, and they will

34
00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:45,120
eat them and they go, and they're vegan. And they're like, oh, this is vegan. So yes, you can have

35
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,640
some yummy food. And so you can take care of animals and the planet and do these things without

36
00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:54,800
it being like twigs and grass clippings. So that's my answer.

37
00:03:54,800 --> 00:04:03,440
I love that. I try to do that in my workplace. I mean, my secret way of bringing the vegan agenda

38
00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:11,120
to the workplace. So would you say that you became vegan first for health reasons and then

39
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,400
became vegan for ethical reasons?

40
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:20,400
Yeah, it definitely for me, it started off as a health thing. And I think when I, because all I

41
00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:24,160
changed was what went in. You know, I didn't start working out at the same time. I didn't take extra

42
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:29,280
vitamins or else. My life didn't change at all. I said, in the fact that I stopped eating animals

43
00:04:29,280 --> 00:04:35,840
and animal products. And within said a month, I felt better. And within three months, I lost weight.

44
00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:39,840
I felt great. My cholesterol was down. My doctor was like, what'd you do? I said, I stopped eating

45
00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:43,280
animals. He goes, keep doing it. And that way was it. And then he was trying to get me to not go on

46
00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:48,400
a statin. His big thing was concerned for my not being on a statin. And at the age I was at that

47
00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:55,200
point, which is that point I was in my late thirties. And so, yeah, I mean, I think for me,

48
00:04:55,200 --> 00:05:02,160
it was that kind of thing. I will say my place of business or where I work had a chili cookoff a

49
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:08,080
couple of years ago. And I won one of the awards in like big pot of vegan chili. And one day we had

50
00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,320
a whole big like bring in a pot of soup. I brought in a big lentil soup mix and it was gone. And the

51
00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:16,720
other soups weren't gone. Mine was gone. And so I'm like, okay, you can make a tasty dish. It doesn't

52
00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:24,320
require animal products in it. And people loved it. And so. Well, yeah, I mean, there's this

53
00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:32,720
preconception that once you go vegan, it's over. You won't like food anymore. You will have to

54
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:43,280
to take that, you know, to eat that tofu, the bland tofu that is not raw. And it's not the case.

55
00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:52,720
Most vegans, you know, I talk with always say once I became vegan, I introduced a diversity of food

56
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:59,040
in my diet. And I always say, you know, my plate became more colorful from being vegan.

57
00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:05,600
I agree. I also think that there are some vegans I know. I mean, sure, Oreos are vegan. And, you

58
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,960
know, you can't live on those. I've tried occasionally, but you can't. But, you know,

59
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,880
there are things out there that are junk food that you can still eat as a vegan, but definitely

60
00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:20,480
you eat more things. Also, I mean, I've tried Ethiopian food and I've tried other stuff. And

61
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:25,200
we have a cookbook called the Korean vegan, which is fantastic. It's got some great flavors and

62
00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:31,440
things to it. And it's really broadened our viewpoint on food. And we try different flavors

63
00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,440
and different profiles. I mean, my children grew up eating because I mean, basically I was cooking

64
00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:40,240
vegan food in the house. And so my older kids who are now in their early 20s and late teens,

65
00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,520
they grew up eating a diverse flavor of things because that's what dad put in front of them,

66
00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:49,600
you know, and it wasn't a case of like, oh, you don't want this. You can go have a Big Mac. No,

67
00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,640
this is dinner. So you're going to, you know, dinner is right here in front of you. And they

68
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:58,480
learn to eat a broad range of things and flavors. And even tonight, I have a small child right now.

69
00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:06,320
We made a potato scallop dish tonight, which is with the yogurt, soy based yogurt, I think.

70
00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:13,840
And then some potatoes and one of the meat replacement sausages and a scallop kind of

71
00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,920
dish, like an og rot and everything. And the little one loved it too. It's just, it's what it is.

72
00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:19,280
It's just yummy food.

73
00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:26,640
Yes. I mean, it forces you to learn how to cook. So yes, that's very true. Yeah. Stop

74
00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:34,160
taking, like you said, the Big Mac. And also it forces you to open yourself to new flavors,

75
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:46,080
to new ingredients, to go look for new recipes. But I am of the opinion that if we want to advocate

76
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:56,960
for veganism, we should take the route of talking about veganism as an ethical, from the, from an

77
00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:05,360
ethical standpoint, instead of talking about the health or even the environment, because I feel

78
00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:16,080
like that to sustain being vegan. And I know right now, you know, we feel that it's easy and

79
00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:25,600
it's second nature, but it is a drastic change. And people find it scary to change so much of

80
00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:35,200
their diet and of their lifestyle sometimes. So do you share that opinion that we should advocate

81
00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:43,600
mainly from an ethical standpoint, you know, concentrate on the ethical arguments and get away

82
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:52,560
from the health part or even the environment part or the other benefits of veganism?

83
00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:58,800
Well, so it's interesting. I certainly subscribe to the fact that we need to be aware of it and

84
00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:06,160
need to present it, but I think most people you run into, if you say you're a vegan, they're like,

85
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,600
ah, okay, they're already kind of hands up. They don't want to talk to you. And then if you're

86
00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:15,520
like animals, animals, animals, they tune you out. And, and this would be like, if you're from any

87
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,400
political party, the other political party these days, doesn't want to hear you, right? You say

88
00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,400
you're the other party, but you're the other party. And then you're like, oh, okay, I'm

89
00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:31,520
the other party. They don't want to hear you. So I found that by using food or that kind of health

90
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:38,160
benefits, it allows me to start a conversation that can over time work that way. But if you start,

91
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:43,360
at least in my experience, if you start with, you know, chickens are grinders and cows and

92
00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:49,760
they just don't care. I mean, they like their veal and they don't really care that the baby cows are

93
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,040
stuck in a little small space for, you know, they can't lay down and they just don't care.

94
00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:58,880
So I, so, and they're not going to watch the documentaries that we all aware of are out there.

95
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:03,600
They're not going to watch those things. So if I can get some money to think about

96
00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:11,200
eating less meat, eating less dairy, eating less things by doing the food, food group,

97
00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:16,960
kind of health route, or just any food and lower carbon implant, whatever, you know,

98
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:22,320
it's a way to get there. I certainly value the animal rights and the animal issues of it. And

99
00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:28,160
I think that's important. But if you turn somebody off by coming at them with the animal stuff first,

100
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,320
I think you've lost that person and then you're not going to get them back. And then their minds,

101
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,760
oh, vegans are like that. And then, you know, there's the jokes, you know, how do you know

102
00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:40,080
someone's vegan? They'll tell you in my experience, people around me will tell people, oh, he's vegan.

103
00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:47,200
Like, okay, why is that an issue? Like, you know, I mean, I don't, you know, I try to convert people

104
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:53,680
by food or I have guests over. I had a friend, we were a family friend who is he's 90 years old.

105
00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:58,160
This man's a steak and potatoes kind of person. He came over, cooked me lovely mushroom leek

106
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,960
cassoladio and he ate it and loved it. Now I'm eating it. He didn't complain because it's a

107
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:08,880
lovely, lovely meal, you know. But I think if you go at somebody, then you say, you know, this, this,

108
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:13,440
this, this about animals, which is true. I mean, it's what we do is kind of horrific and how we

109
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:19,920
treat these beings is horrible. But I think most people don't want to hear that because they

110
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,920
understand they're contributing to it, right? In some fashion, they understand even the fact that,

111
00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:28,960
you know, throughout mankind's history, you know, we don't call beef cow, right? It's called beef,

112
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:34,720
right? It's not pig, it's pork, right? And so we've made these changes to names veal isn't baby cow,

113
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:39,600
that's been kept in a pen and kind of tortured. No, it's veal, right? So we found ways to change

114
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:44,320
the names to kind of shelter people from this stuff. And the fact that people don't know how to,

115
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,920
you know, process their own things or how to, how to deal with it. And so they don't understand

116
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:53,440
where they are in that thing. Makes for me, I think there's already a disconnect there in the

117
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:59,760
first place. And so I just, I don't know, I think that it's very easy to be kind of the,

118
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:05,920
the angry vegan, which I get, I understand why people are like that. I get it. But I think if

119
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:12,160
you want to convert people to your cause, you need to be more approachable. And so I take that kind

120
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:17,920
of middle of the road thing. I said, I teach. And so like my students are aware of them a vegan,

121
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,640
but I never like, never like in your face, never at all. I'm just like, what do you have for lunch

122
00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,080
today? I'm like, oh, here's what I have. And I tell them what's for lunch. And once she gets asked

123
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,000
me to bring lunch in and like, sure. I brought some things in to share. That's it. I'm not pushing

124
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,720
any agenda. I'm not telling anything about animals and not anything, but like, they're like, oh, wow,

125
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:40,720
that's tasty. Yes, it's tasty. I'm cooking good food here. Like this is, but like, I think for me,

126
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,880
at least I understand the ethical nature of it. And then certainly as part of my own process,

127
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:50,160
I don't buy animal stuff. I don't wear animal stuff. I'm there, but I feel that we need to be

128
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:57,200
careful how far you push that to where you're getting the blowback. And then a person who maybe

129
00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,360
was maybe kind of considerate, even their face, you're killing animals. And then they're like,

130
00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,680
okay, now I'm done. I think can you get them to phase into meatless Mondays? You can phase into

131
00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:11,840
meatless Mondays and Tuesday. I guess I'm going to even get somebody to eat meat one less day a week.

132
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:17,040
They're not vegan, but that's better. Right? I mean, sure, it'd be great if they were all vegan,

133
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:23,200
but like even this one last day of the animals of consumption is better than one day more of animal

134
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:28,560
consumption. So that's kind of my thought process. And I completely agree. We should encourage people

135
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:36,720
to reduce their consumption of animal products instead of, you know, all of a sudden becoming

136
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:45,440
vegan. I want to get back to the health part, but first I want to talk about the anger you mentioned.

137
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:55,040
This is something I felt when I became vegan. I was pretty upset thinking about

138
00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:04,080
the billions of animals exploited, tortured, killed and such. And there are plenty of vegans out there

139
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:14,560
who still feel upset after years of becoming vegan. And it's almost like a wound or something like

140
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:25,360
that where, you know, it comes up in discussing the topic of veganism. And that anger, you know,

141
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:32,400
I asked another guest about it and, you know, he mentioned how this was good. In fact,

142
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:40,800
you should feed that anger and keep that fire going. But part of me doesn't like that.

143
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:49,600
Just from, you know, a mental health perspective. And also, I've always said, you know, I'm vegan

144
00:14:49,600 --> 00:15:00,160
out of love for animals, not because I'm angry or doesn't come from that sad passion. But what do

145
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:08,160
you think? Do you have an opinion on that? Well, I mean, I said, I mean, I, you know, I spent 30

146
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:15,360
some years eating animal products. And I was the typical American, you know, McDonald's Burger King,

147
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:23,120
whatever, bacon, egg and cheese, this or burger kind of thing. And I think it took for me a chance

148
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:33,040
to realize that I could eat not animals, and one be full, be healthy and be happy, to then reach a

149
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:38,080
point where I could, and then also said, Pete Singer's book, Animal Liberation was fantastic.

150
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:43,040
I know I also read a book called Vegan Freak. And I went through a whole binge of like things

151
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:49,360
like that for a while. It really helped broaden my eyes to what was going on. This is prior to

152
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:55,520
the documentaries that are out there now that you can watch and things like that. And so I, you know,

153
00:15:55,520 --> 00:16:00,640
I don't, you know, again, I don't buy no certain things. And I think I have one piece of clothing

154
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:07,600
on my wardrobe. I have a kilt. My family clansman, it's a wool kilt because that's what they're made

155
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,560
from that I had years before I was vegan. I still have it. And not hurting any animals at this point.

156
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:17,680
It was before, you know, it's a kind of pre thing. And I have it, I work with me once a year,

157
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:22,080
twice a year. But I wouldn't buy a new one. I mean, I bought other kilts, but they're cotton,

158
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,800
they're canvas, they're whatever. They're not made from wool. Because I wouldn't do that at this

159
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:34,640
point. And so, I don't know, I think I had my own viewpoint, and I'm upset that the world is like

160
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:40,960
that. And people are still doing this kind of things. But I don't, I don't know, I don't hate

161
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:46,320
anything on the planet. I find that hating something requires me to be able to do it.

162
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,960
Hating something requires me to pour energy I have into something. And I don't want to pour

163
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,280
my energy into something negative, which to me hate is something negative. And so,

164
00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,680
anger is kind of like that. So instead, I try to be positive. But at the same point,

165
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,040
I don't want to make someone else angry by getting in their face about what they're eating or their

166
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:08,720
choices. I can find ways to do it in a peaceful kind of friendly way. But I think if someone gets

167
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,720
in your face with something and really makes you angry, your tendency isn't to jump to their

168
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,280
conclusion. Your tendency is to be defensive. And I just think you want to convert people to

169
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:22,640
kind of the cause. You need to be positive and calm and happy and approach it. If someone's in

170
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,640
your face, like you're wrong, I just think the average person's going to go, yeah, you know,

171
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:35,760
that's for you. I don't need that conversation. And I think the goal is to increase animal safety,

172
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:42,240
decreasing consumption, animal usage, the way to do it is gradual, peaceful, calm.

173
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:47,040
And sure, you know what, you want to throw in climate change. I think, again, there's certain

174
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,800
political leaning in the country that's more inclined to believe in climate change, believe

175
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,880
in the animals contribute to climate change. And so there's a way, you know, you find somebody who's

176
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,320
kind of eco-friendly, but they're still eating animals. Well, hey, it's better for the planet.

177
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,160
You don't eat animals, please eat less of them. Okay. There's ways to approach a lot of people,

178
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:07,040
you know, then there's the person who's got, you know, the big trucks, fuel and fuel, and they want

179
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,320
to have their barbecue and everything else. And you don't have to convince them. I think you can

180
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,840
get in their face, but you're not going to convince them. So to me, it's work around them, you know,

181
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,600
find people around them and go from there. And eventually the people like that will have heart

182
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:23,760
attacks or high cholesterol issues and they'll laugh anyway. So, you know, that's my kind of

183
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,280
thought process, right? It's that one last forever. I mean, I also know that like they said that like

184
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:32,160
we go to Mars, I might have some freeze-dried food that contains animal products, but you get to Mars,

185
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,480
you're going to grow plants because they're not going to ship a cow to Mars. So people living on

186
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:41,440
Mars are going to at some point be basically a vegan diet and be living on plant-based things.

187
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:46,640
And so, okay, so we'll get, you know, there's a forward process there. We'll get more people

188
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:52,000
to do that kind of stuff because they realize, Hey, we have to, you know. So that's my long way

189
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:58,080
to answer to your question. Sorry, I ramble a bit. No, it's okay. It's perfect for a podcast.

190
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:08,080
In fact, I love the way you think because you have a strategic way of approaching this whole issue.

191
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:20,720
You're not a one answer kind of person. And yeah, I think that sometimes it requires a different

192
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:28,480
approach. You know, well, every time every person requires a different approach, but would you say

193
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:38,160
that some people need to be offended or that sometimes we need to upset in order to bring

194
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:47,680
about change. And I'm thinking about, for instance, those vegans who enter a restaurant where they

195
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:57,680
serve just meat and they make the protest and, you know, they will scream and such to the

196
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:08,160
at the customers. You have that kind of advocacy work. Do you think that sometimes upsetting

197
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:18,880
others is required to change the status quo? Well, I think the people who go into say a grocery store

198
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:24,880
and the stickers on things or going to a restaurant, you know, I don't go to no steakhouse because I

199
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:30,000
don't eat with the servant steakhouse. When possible, I eat at just vegan restaurants in

200
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,480
the first place. And occasionally at a place that has vegan options to support the fact that they

201
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:41,040
got vegan options, which might encourage them to have more vegan options. But I think that I

202
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:45,360
do see someone go outside a restaurant with a placard, the signs, whatever, maybe it shows,

203
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,840
you know, animals being mistreated, maybe it shows baby chickens, whatever it is,

204
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:55,040
then in the restaurant. And once you go in there, you're basically causing a disruption. You're

205
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,720
causing the problem for the business. You're causing a problem. Like the employees of the

206
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:04,000
business, the waitress, the waitress, the waiters, the busboys, the dishwashers, they didn't ask for

207
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:09,840
their job to be upended, upheaval, you know, whether they support the cause or not. Hey,

208
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:17,280
I don't know. I mean, but I don't agree with that kind of civil disobedience in that place. You

209
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,520
want to stand outside the place, you're perfectly allowed to protest, perfectly fine. It's part of

210
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:25,680
me. It's the right we've got in our constitution here in America. Sure, go ahead and do it. But

211
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:33,200
I think going into a place and causing disruption, it's me, I feel it crosses a line. I think you

212
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,720
can stand outside with pictures, placard signs, and still cause that same in your face kind of thing

213
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:45,040
without causing a problem for the business or the workers or that kind of thing. Because again,

214
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,320
to me, the concern is, are you going to actually going to make anyone angry? They'll be angry at

215
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,680
you because you've gone into the thing, but are they actually going to then go, oh my God, you're

216
00:21:51,680 --> 00:22:00,160
right. And I just, I don't see it. And maybe part of this is, I mean, I teach as my day job. And,

217
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,160
you know, there are times occasionally you can kind of call somebody out on their crap, but

218
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,320
oftentimes you've got to kind of like, Hey man, let's be kind of chill and kind of, you got to

219
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,400
approach it kind of from the edges. You kind of can't always go at somebody because they tend to

220
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,800
do that and then get up and then it doesn't work well. So you've got to kind of work the edges and

221
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,560
then eventually find the place and everybody's calm. And now we can understand each other and

222
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:25,120
now we can go, Hey, you were wrong about that. I was okay. And then you can, but you just kind of

223
00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:29,360
yell at them. There's a couple of kids you can maybe you can kind of bark at and they'll go get

224
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:33,040
that. But most of them, you can't do that. And I think people are like that, right? If someone's

225
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,440
in your face telling you you're wrong about what you're doing, most people don't want to just go,

226
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:43,120
Oh, you're right. They're like, you get defensive. And so I, I'm not a fan of that kind of in your

227
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:50,080
face. It will just be inside of a place, be it a restaurant, a mall, a store, maybe a mall is common

228
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:56,160
space, but like not in a store or not going and throwing paint on fur, or I think those kinds of

229
00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,880
things cross a line into destructive nature and don't help the cause. I think if anything,

230
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:05,520
it gets spread across the news afterwards and it just makes people look a little crazy, a little,

231
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:12,160
you know, not song style norms. So that's me, you know?

232
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:19,920
Well, I agree with you. And, you know, I think part of me thinks that those people are working

233
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:27,360
out some inner feelings. I think it feels good to do so. Sometimes I feel like going inside,

234
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:34,000
you know, one of those restaurants where they serve some strange meats or something like that,

235
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:41,440
and start screaming at customers. I think there's something therapeutic to that. But

236
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:48,640
obviously I don't do it because in the long term, I don't think it's beneficial for the movement or

237
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:58,320
for myself. Yes. Yes. I totally get the desire. I mean, and, you know, as a person who,

238
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:03,600
I don't know, 15, 16, 17 years ago, you know, went to a Brazilian barbecue place where they

239
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,440
had every kind of thing on the planet you could imagine. It was just, you know, meat, meat, meat,

240
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,680
meat. But now I think about that, you know, I've had some people ask me like,

241
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:16,080
you had a burger tomorrow. What happened? I'm like, I don't know, but I'd probably either throwing

242
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,920
up or having real problems at the other end for days afterwards. My body hasn't processed

243
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:26,400
anal protein in 14 years. You know, and like I make some, I make something that has, you know,

244
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,240
in theory, it's, you know, egg-like or whatever else and people are like, oh, it tastes like egg.

245
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:35,440
I'm like, sure. But I haven't had an egg in 14 and a half years. So sure. What's an egg taste like?

246
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,920
I don't know. It tastes like the thing I'm making. I think I haven't had that stuff in a long time,

247
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:48,480
you know? So I just, I don't know. I get the desire to get people, if the whole planet could

248
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,920
change tomorrow, you know, from, you know, animal rights issues and sure, you know what people say,

249
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,680
well, all those cows would die then. Well, they would, they die of old age and they would die

250
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,920
happier lives. Not in theory, if they were not kept in cages and pens and that kind of stuff,

251
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:07,040
they'd be allowed to be on Rome fields and do things and die of old age. Sure. You know,

252
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,560
could you instantly stop animal production? Well, you'd have a whole bunch of animals that

253
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,760
no one wants to feed them. They can't sell them off afterwards. So that'd be a problem too. You

254
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,720
know, we don't want to have, you know, millions of animals starving because the companies,

255
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,720
the agribusiness decides we can't sell them, not going to feed them, you know? Well, that's no good.

256
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:26,640
So I think the gradual decline of consumption works better because then at least we're not

257
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,880
leaving animals to starve in the middle of nowhere and there are no sanctuaries to adopt, you know,

258
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:36,320
five billion pigs across the planet or whatever many pigs are out there. And, you know, but there

259
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:43,120
are sanctuaries. I went to a sanctuary, I don't know, 10, 12 years ago, upstate New York, a little

260
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:46,640
place and they've got beavers and they've got goats and other stuff. It was just a nice little

261
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:53,040
kind of cool place where animals can go and live happy lives and be okay. But like, I don't know,

262
00:25:53,040 --> 00:26:00,240
I think that, you know, I get the anger, I get the frustration, but I think the world's not going to

263
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:08,640
change like that unless there's a sudden pressing outer need for, you know, some massive glacier

264
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,960
traps in the ocean and then it's climate change and we can link it or aliens suddenly arrive and

265
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,560
say, you guys are abusing animals and we can't, we don't like that and therefore we're going to

266
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:22,000
punish you. Okay. I think without some external force of great nature, I think mankind's going to

267
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:30,480
not make a rapid change. We'll have to do the gradual one and be okay with that in the process.

268
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:41,200
Now I want to at last go back to the health arguments that you make. First of all, I want to point out that

269
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:52,960
oftentimes we as vegans are confronted with all sorts of health claims from, and it's health

270
00:26:52,960 --> 00:27:00,480
criticism from the outside world. And so we have to talk about health and we have to learn about

271
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:09,360
nutrition and we have to, you know, kind of build a little library of knowledge around that because

272
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:17,680
we're faced with so much criticism, health criticism regarding our health and it's just,

273
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:26,880
it's not just criticism. Sometimes it's concern from the ones closest to us. Like I remember my

274
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:36,160
parents asking me to do some blood work at least for the first two years just to make sure that I

275
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:46,000
was in good shape. So yes, but I also don't believe that veganism is, you know, at the other end of

276
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:54,960
the spectrum, like a miracle diet or a youth fountain of sort, because, you know, someone who

277
00:27:54,960 --> 00:28:04,640
has a Mediterranean diet and he eats or she eats some fish sometimes, although there is mercury in

278
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:15,360
fish, I would not recommend that, but it's hard to argue that this person is, you know, more unhealthy

279
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:24,160
than I am because I'm vegan. So it's hard to compare those diets or to make the argument that

280
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:34,160
mine is superior than the Mediterranean diet with small amounts of fish. Although, you know,

281
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:42,640
I'm not stupid. I know that most people don't have a responsible diet and it's the case for most,

282
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:50,720
certainly the case for most North Americans. So what do you make of all of that?

283
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,920
Well, first of all, I think I look pretty good for my age. Thank you very much. But, you know,

284
00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:06,240
I mean, you could live on, you know, a junk food diet and, you know, perhaps you just have genetics

285
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:12,080
that allow you to be, you know, I know six foot tall and 170 pounds and you look pretty good,

286
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,960
right? Now, and maybe even your cholesterol is not bad and just genetically you're predisposed to

287
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:21,360
that. You could be a person who only eats plants all the time and you do all the right stuff and

288
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,040
you're still, you know, 280 and you're high cholesterol because your body just makes more

289
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:30,000
cholesterol than it should. Some things are genetic. Some things you just can't fix. I know

290
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:36,080
I was able to lower my cholesterol significantly just by changing what I eat. And so to me,

291
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,720
I kind of swear by it. At the same point, things people like, you know, all protein, protein,

292
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:46,720
protein. Okay. As a kid who grew up in the seventies when chickens were smaller, because

293
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,200
chickens weren't the big massive things we have today, it's all breast meat, you know, a chicken,

294
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:56,880
a, a, a roaster chicken, which was smaller than a state with two to family of four or five for dinner

295
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:02,240
and the next night. And so you didn't get, you know, half a pound of protein on your plate.

296
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,680
Cause mom served a portion anyway, it was a drumstick or whatever. And that's what you ate.

297
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:11,280
And you had your potatoes and you had your vegetable and that we were fine. And we didn't

298
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,800
die of protein deficiency. And we were all fine as Americans and we did our thing. We were

299
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,360
perfectly fantastic. And we, you know, became America, you know, well, okay. Now there's a

300
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:24,640
sudden need to have like 85 billion grams of protein per meal. You don't like you don't. And

301
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:29,280
even for the crazy workout in the gym, you know, that protein for my workout, protein,

302
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,440
I work out. Okay. You think you're better. You're not really, probably really playing the actual

303
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,920
game here. Then they make you, probably by your kidneys work harder to process and get rid of

304
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:45,280
this stuff than you need to, you know, we beans and lentils and tofu and other stuff. And you know,

305
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:50,080
I don't eat a block of tofu, a whole block, every meal. No, I eat part of the block and

306
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,960
I share with my family and we're fine. We're okay. I have, I have a health condition that

307
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,360
is hereditary. There's nothing to do with being vegan in the slightest. That my aunt has, my

308
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,720
grandmother has been in the family for quite some time and I get blood work done all the time.

309
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,800
And my blood work generally is pretty fantastic. You know, my vitamin D is low. That's cause I

310
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:14,640
don't go out in the sun very much because I'm of a Northern European heritage and we burn quite

311
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:22,000
easily. And okay. But for everyone, it is, it's low gravity because we all have been told stay out

312
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,000
of the sun because sun causes cancer. So you gotta sunlight and wear sunblock and wear sunscreen.

313
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,080
Oh, okay. So we all do that. So these low gravity, but all the people who are saying, oh,

314
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,080
vegan is a loss of health stuff. It has to be fortified by your diet. Okay. All the omnivores

315
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:40,000
who are drinking fortified milk and fortified cereal and fortified, you know, bread and for,

316
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,000
it's all fortified. Everything is because we've also, we've also grown the plants to a point where

317
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,000
they don't have the nutrients they used to have because we're now making them in such vast quantities.

318
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:53,600
And so everything's fortified. And it'll be 12 as a concern. My B12 numbers are fine. I mean,

319
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:59,200
occasionally I've got a little like sublingual pill I can take for, but like, I do it occasionally

320
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:04,560
just because I think I should not because I need to. I'm not worried about it at all. So, I mean,

321
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:09,120
I eat, you know, a pretty diverse diet. I'm, you know, for a vegan, I do a lot of things. It's very,

322
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,480
it's very little. I won't actually, I can't even anything I won't eat. Not if you're in oatmeal,

323
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,360
that's a childhood trauma, but I'll still eat it. I have to, but at the same point, I still have

324
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,920
my occasional, you know, Ben and Jerry's, you know, non-dairy, you know, ice cream or my occasional

325
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:29,920
Oreo or potato chips or whatnot, but I eat a pretty good approach and that keeps me pretty healthy.

326
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,000
And, you know, I occasionally go, Oh, I need to lose a couple of pounds because I've been eating

327
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:41,280
too many potato chips and whatever. Okay. But I think going vegan, be more aware of my own body

328
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:46,720
range, the weight I'm comfortable at, the way that kind of should be at. Prior to that point,

329
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:52,560
I kind of didn't care. Whatever it didn't matter, but like being more conscious of what goes in

330
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:58,400
and the impacts it has on me has made me, I think a little more aware of that process. And so,

331
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:06,720
you know, I think that, will it solve all your health problems? No. Although I know people who

332
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:14,080
had, you know, patchy skin or who had asthma issues and they get rid of dairy and a lot of problems,

333
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:19,200
major problems went away. Didn't say they cured it. I'm not going to say they cured the problem,

334
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,720
but it's like they took out that irritant that the body had to deal with and suddenly now

335
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,760
their eczema is better, their asthma is better. It's like, they get rid of dairy. I mean, okay.

336
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:33,360
We're the only animal that drinks the lactation of another animal, right? Baby cows don't go drink

337
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:38,400
from goats, right? Goats don't go drink from, I don't know, bears, right? No, it says it, right?

338
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,800
We're the only animal that does this thing. And, you know, we're not really built for it. I mean,

339
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,920
sure. In some parts of the planet, genetically, there are whole ethnic groups that have a massive

340
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,400
lactose intolerance because they never did it before and just can't make that thing work.

341
00:33:53,120 --> 00:34:02,560
And so to me, I think, you know, if I can eat plants and be healthy and happy, then why don't

342
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,720
you eat animals? Why don't you just make something else out of the process? And, you know, I grow

343
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:11,520
some plants in my garden and I buy something in the store and I just, I eat a broad range of things.

344
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,640
And so to me, yeah, my health standpoint, I think, you know, people listen to me,

345
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,880
how are you a protein? Like, what are you, your protein? You know, I ask them that like, well,

346
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,920
like, well, how much protein do you have today? And they're like, what do you mean? Like,

347
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:28,080
how many grams of protein? And I'm like, oh, like, you don't know, do you? Neither do I. All I know

348
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:33,280
is I'm eating enough because my body feels fine. Like it's okay. You'll find that one, like, you

349
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:39,760
know, um, you know, a workout kind of person will tell you, well, 46.9% proteins for all my macros

350
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:48,000
are fine. Okay. Good for you. But I don't know. I just, you know, I mean, I think it wasn't so

351
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,120
recently that America worked with this kind of stuff. Again, I grew up in the seventies and,

352
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,360
you know, mom put a bit of chicken on your plate or a little bit of liver or something else, and

353
00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:00,240
you just ate it and you were fine. And we eat so much more protein now than we used to. And portion

354
00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:05,760
sizes are huge, are big, but embarrassing. And it's like, we all survived. We were fine. So I kind

355
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:13,120
of look at that just with plants. And I also get the feeling that becoming vegan has empowered you

356
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:21,760
in, in your diet, in, in the way you eat. Um, and it has certainly had the same effect, uh,

357
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:29,920
you know, for me. Um, I would like to go back to your vegan journey and talk about, you know,

358
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:36,080
when you decided to become vegan, what was the reaction of the people around you, of your family,

359
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:43,520
of your circle of friends? Uh, was it a welcoming, warm reaction or was it full of concerns like my

360
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:51,280
parents? Uh, how was it? Um, well, let me see. At that point I was married to my ex-wife. Um,

361
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:57,360
I had two kids who were, um, let me see, five and three, roughly at the time. And then a mother-in-law

362
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:02,800
who also lived with us. Um, when I, the first three months that I was doing kind of just a plant-based

363
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:08,000
approach, I cooked my food, I cooked their food. And, um, occasionally they'd eat some of my food,

364
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:13,440
it was like a side dish. And then around that third or fourth month, I was like, you know what? Um,

365
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:18,160
once I started reading the books and getting more from plant-based to, to vegan, I'm going to look

366
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,720
at animals. I'm like, I'm not cooking animals anymore. You want animals, you cook them yourself.

367
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:26,400
But like, okay, I can't like kick you out of the house because I can't do that. But like,

368
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:33,280
that's it. And I stopped cooking animals. And so, um, other people cooked, cooked a meal or two for

369
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,360
a month or so and they realized they didn't want to cook anymore. So the house kind of just started

370
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,680
eating vegan food because I was cooking vegan food and they liked the food. And that went on

371
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,680
for quite some time. Um, and so whether they liked it or not, I don't know, but they kind of dealt

372
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:51,360
with it. You know, um, I had a good friend who was vegetarian. So that was a really, really easy

373
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:57,920
thing. Um, um, another good friend, um, who was also vegetarian, who, you know, made the effort to

374
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:03,280
kind of, Oh, I'll leave out the dairy and stuff to make things for you. Um, family doesn't always get

375
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:08,400
it. You know, um, you go to like an Easter gathering or Thanksgiving gathering and people make, you know,

376
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,280
say vegetables, it's corn or carrots or whatever it is. And they put butter on it, you know, like

377
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,920
he just put the butter off to the side. I could have it and you put the butter on afterwards.

378
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,560
And, um, I have one cousin who makes roasted potatoes every year at Easter. And she always

379
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,120
makes a point to tell me I made them with olive oil so you can have them. I'm like, well, thank you.

380
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,120
But like most people just don't, it's kind of, don't care. You know, I don't think it's an

381
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:37,360
intentional like screw you a thing, put butter on it, but it's also a, I don't care enough to pay

382
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,840
attention to either go by like an earth balance or something like that. I can't believe it's not

383
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:47,520
butter plant-based, you know, um, there's plenty of options out there these days to buy a non-dairy,

384
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:55,360
non-animal butter product. Um, but like they don't care enough to do that or leave it off,

385
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,440
you know, it's like, okay, now I know where I rank, right? I'm like, I'm like down here, you know,

386
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,960
and okay. You know, I show up to those things with some yummy thing to share because I would,

387
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,520
you know, I could show up with just enough for me. Um, but no, I show up with a big massive thing

388
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:15,760
or whatever it is. Um, my wife and I went to a, um, a, uh, a special like big date night kind of

389
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:21,200
thing with much other couples, uh, last summer. And I made a, um, ACA vegan Wellington. So it's a,

390
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:26,720
you know, it's a puff pastry full of vegan gluten-free puff pastry with mushrooms and

391
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:32,720
something inside of it. And it was gone. People just devoured it. But I'm like, but I know,

392
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:35,520
but meanwhile, you know, while there are ribs and wings and other stuff at the same,

393
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,440
because it was an omnivore event. And then afterwards I was like, you know, that makes me

394
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,840
happy. Like that makes me happy. Like people ate that kind of stuff and they knew it was vegan.

395
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,480
And then it was gluten-free. Cause my wife, my wife, I had celiac so she can't have gluten. Um,

396
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:53,520
and, but they knew it and they ate it and they loved it. And it's like, that's to me, how I can

397
00:38:53,520 --> 00:39:00,560
be show, you know, that works. But, um, yeah, I find people were less supportive maybe 14 years ago.

398
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,280
And as with anything else in time, these days, I think they're kind of just like, okay, yep,

399
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,960
he's vegan. You know, I'll show up to some family function. My dad will go, Oh,

400
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,960
Chris has got the vegan dish. It's like, well, yes. You know, he'll be like, it's vegan rice and

401
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,720
beans. I'm like, well, if rice and beans, dad, it should be vegan in the first place. Like, I mean,

402
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:20,480
otherwise it'd be like beef and rice and beans, right? It was not. So it's just rice and beans.

403
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,640
It's not vegan rice and beans. It's just rice and beans. But dad always calls it like, here's the

404
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:29,680
vegan dish. It's like, thanks for now. No one wants to eat it. Cause I like it's vegan, but like,

405
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,840
I don't know. I think mostly people in my circle are fairly friendly. There's the occasional

406
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,920
people who are still like, I'm going to use a cheeseburger to balance you out. Okay. I knew

407
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,480
a heart attack. I won't. It's all fine. It's all good. You know, um, I joke about it. I kind of

408
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:49,040
just be like, yeah, okay. You do you, you know, I, you do you, man, I can't, you know, but these,

409
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:55,760
these, my circle of friends are fairly, um, no, they're fairly tolerant, fairly accepting, fairly,

410
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:01,760
um, we went to a wedding recently and the, um, the bride, um, told me that I was in the wedding

411
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:07,840
party and the bride told me that her caterer was optioning chicken or beef. That was it. There was

412
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:12,640
no other option for anything else. I was like, okay. So, so we're going to bring her own food,

413
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:17,920
you know, and she was like, um, uh, I said, I'm not asking him. I'm telling you, cause I'm not

414
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:22,000
going to go there and like not eat the entire night. Cause if we're going to do this. And so

415
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,560
we, the wait staff, when we got there, the wait staff were like, we said, we don't eat, you know,

416
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:31,440
animals and they're like, oh, we can give you a salad at least. And so they brought us like,

417
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,240
they gave us like a bigger helping of salad. And the first one was nice. And then we had our own

418
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:37,520
dinner. We brought with us and put on a place and the guests were like, the table were like,

419
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,760
what'd you guys get? Like, oh, we brought it from home. Like, oh, that looks really good. Like,

420
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:46,080
well, thank you. Thank you. And you know, so we didn't have dessert, but like we had this salad

421
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:54,080
course, we had a main and then, okay, so we missed dessert. Okay. You know, so yeah. Um, but yeah,

422
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,040
I'm just, I'm not going to be the guy who sits in the corner and doesn't eat a meal. I'm going to

423
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:02,720
bring myself and you know, politely, politely, um, but same point, I'm going to do the thing. So.

424
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:11,840
Well, talking about the, the vegan label, I like how, you know, this micro situation that you are

425
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:18,320
living, you know, um, what kind of reaction people will have knowing that this is vegan. Um,

426
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:27,520
this kind of situation is lived by big, uh, food brands when they have to decide whether to announce

427
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:35,120
that their product is vegan or just, you know, right. I've read, you know, plant-based, I've read

428
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:41,840
all sorts of ways to go around that label. And sometimes you just don't mention it. I mean,

429
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:47,600
Oreos. Yeah. I mean, people, I said that, people go there. What's that white stuff? I'm like

430
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:53,200
chemicals. Um, I don't know. It's, it's certainly not dairy. I mean, it's, you know, um, yeah. I mean,

431
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:57,760
Oreos have decided, have decided to, um, Doritos, these spicy, sweet, chili Doritos are the purple

432
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:02,160
bag. For those of you who are out there listening to the podcast, the purple bag are vegan. Now

433
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:07,200
you should eat, you know, 8,000 bags of those. You shouldn't, but they're tasty. But like,

434
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,280
so they don't market them as vegan ones though, because then no one's going to buy them. So they

435
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:16,400
market them and like those in the, no, no, but otherwise people would buy them, eat them and

436
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,160
they didn't think they were tasty. So I think some companies have decided it's just like, well, the

437
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:25,280
vegans know if we market it as vegan, it's going to impact someone's going to go, I can't buy it.

438
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:29,360
It's vegan. It won't have any flavor. It won't be whatever it's what, you know. And so that,

439
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,120
and the plant based thing is be careful because you'll say plant based and a lot of dairy in them

440
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:38,400
or eggs in them. It's like, and that's because they're plant based, but they're not like plant

441
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,480
complete, I guess, as to how they look at it. So I'm always a little cautious about, um,

442
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:48,080
thank you for mentioning me because I had that experience. Yeah. I bought some things and then

443
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,640
like I was at, um, we were at Trader Joe's and bought some chips and we got up to the car and

444
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:58,960
realized they had milk in them. I'm like, why is there milk in this? Like, yeah. And like, okay.

445
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:04,480
And okay. Well, so those went off to, um, I think we gave them off to somebody else. We knew who

446
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,640
would eat such things. And it's like, okay, I already bought them. I'm Ken, you know, but, um,

447
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:15,600
yeah, I just, um, I think from a marketing standpoint, there are things that are clearly,

448
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:21,200
you know, um, I'm not sure. I'm not sure even beyond burgers. Um, I think in the back of the

449
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,480
boxes, maybe there's a little vegan logo, but I don't think in the front, this is vegan. I think

450
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:30,240
it's just, I think it's just beyond burgers, you know, like the meat, you know, the meat section.

451
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:34,800
Yeah. Oftentimes. Yeah. But, but I think they don't want to put it in your face. It's the vegan

452
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,840
burger. Like we know it is, but they don't want to put the vegan beyond beef. They just beyond beef.

453
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:46,560
Um, and, um, I know the, the just egg products, um, I've made, um, quiches and frittatas with

454
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,720
those and people have been, people have been blown away. And it's like, great. Again, you can

455
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:57,200
do this kind of stuff and not need the animal for it. Um, but yeah, I think the corporations, um,

456
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:02,800
I think some things don't market that way. I know there's a new vegan Reese's peanut butter cup.

457
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,920
I've been looking for it. I don't know where it is, but it's not essential. I'll tell you that.

458
00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:13,600
Cause I just granted I'm a big, big kind of Justin's, but I figured why not at least try out

459
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:18,560
this other one? I mean, cause again, I realized that Reese's and the corporation, and they buy a

460
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,000
whole bunch of dairy and there's questionable cocoa practices and all those other things out there,

461
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:29,040
but those companies are not going to move to plant based products unless you will buy the

462
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:34,560
front of that base products. Right. And so, you know, if we don't don't, you know, so like,

463
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,800
well, if I can find it, I'll buy some. Um, now if they don't taste great, I'll stop buying them. But

464
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,560
like, if they taste decent, I'll buy those and I'll pay the extra, you know, vegan surcharge

465
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:47,280
because things cost more for us, it seems, but like I'll do it. It helps encourage the sales

466
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:52,880
for the process, but I got to find them. And like, I, I looked at most of the places I can find. I

467
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:58,560
can't find them. So I don't know where they are, but, um, well, yeah. And to me, I, I try to

468
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,160
encourage that kind of process, you know, I mean, I'm Ben and Jerry's is a whole line now, a whole

469
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:07,840
variety of non-dairy. Again, they don't see plant based. They don't say vegan. They say non-dairy.

470
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,720
It's very subtle. Right. So, Oh, I have a lactose issue. I'll buy the non-dairy one, right. So

471
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:18,000
without being, you know, you can, ways you can do it without advertising your vegan, but they got

472
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:22,160
all their bunch of flavors. They have, you want the chunky monkey or you want the, you know,

473
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:27,920
cherry Garcia. They've got those. The fish food is fantastic. Um, so yeah, I just, you know, there's

474
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:34,880
ways to do it, but I think the companies are fearful of the anti-vegan backlash. And I think

475
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:41,520
especially in America today, there is, there is a politicalization of many different issues, um,

476
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:47,040
um, be it gender identity, be it, you know, uh, religion, other kinds of stuff. And for whatever

477
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:52,960
reason, veganism becomes part of this thing. I think it's perceived as a, um, a lefty, um,

478
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:59,360
liberal kind of thing. And therefore, um, you know, for people who are not lefty liberals, um,

479
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,600
it's a fun thing to attack and go after and whatnot. And so these corporations don't want to

480
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:08,720
lose, you know, for Oreos. And they said, we're vegan. I can see people that boycott Oreos. They

481
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:12,400
were vegan forever, but boycott them now. So I think they're just like, we're not going to tell

482
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:18,400
anybody, you know? So if you're not a lefty liberal listening to this podcast, Oreos, just ignore the

483
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,240
fact that they're vegan, just keep eating them. Okay. It's all good. Well, I'm going to say

484
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:29,520
something that will not help, but, um, I also think that, um, uh, a wonderful thing about

485
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:37,120
vegan food is that it's inclusive. You know, you, people have so many, um, you know, religious

486
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:48,560
rules and cultural rules and, um, allergies and often, you know, vegan food is gluten free. Um,

487
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:58,560
and you know, when you serve vegan, you can, uh, bypass all of those, uh, limitations and you're

488
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:05,760
saying, Oh, everyone can eat from that. You know, you don't have to think about it before, um, um,

489
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:16,560
um, touching it. Um, so let me, um, ask you, Chris, um, about, um, how so many vegans,

490
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:26,640
and there's this study from funnel. Lytics, I think, um, decides to go back to their old diet.

491
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:35,440
And I think the study says, you know, 84% of, uh, vegans and vegetarians decide, um, to, to go back

492
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:46,000
to, uh, an omnivore diet. And, uh, 34%, um, uh, do so only after a few months. And we talked about,

493
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:55,200
you know, the ethical versus the health versus, um, uh, the, um, the, the climate, uh, causes for,

494
00:47:55,200 --> 00:48:05,840
uh, making someone, um, go vegan. But, um, would you say that, um, the reason why you become vegan

495
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:15,040
is also important, um, um, in the sense of, if this is not a strong enough reason, you might after

496
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:22,800
a year or two, or even after a few months, decide to go back to your old diet. Um,

497
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:30,320
um, and you know, I'm one to say, you know, if you are vegan for ethical reasons, even if it's

498
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:38,480
an afterthought, you know, after, um, or, you know, you decided to make that choice for ethical

499
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:44,880
reasons after having made the choice to become vegan for health reasons or such, I think

500
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:54,720
the chances for you to stay vegans for years to come, um, is more likely, but what, how would you

501
00:48:54,720 --> 00:48:59,120
comment about this? How would you explain, first of all, this phenomenon? Why do people

502
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:06,320
don't stay vegan for long? Although it's super convenient these days. So, um, and do you think

503
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:12,960
it has to do with the reasons or do you have another, uh, reason to explain that? Well,

504
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:17,440
I guess it's such a thing. If the first point you said about religion, um, certainly, you know,

505
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:25,120
you're not worried about things being kosher or things being haram or, I know, um, crossing those

506
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:30,640
other boundaries when it's all from plants in the first place, you're not crossing, you know, I

507
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:38,480
think of any major religions, you know, whether it's, you know, um, dairy or pork or seafood or, or

508
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:44,400
or beef, you know, thing of Hindus, you avoid all those issues, right? Cause it's just plants. Um,

509
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:49,200
and I know there's also large parts of the world where, you know, lentils, beans, rice,

510
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,760
they're cheap food. I know there's this current mindset that being vegan is expensive. Well,

511
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:58,480
sure. If you want to eat all the meal replacement stuff, sure. Sorry, one second. I've got a little

512
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:08,080
one who wants to, um, but, um, I think there's a, um, say hi. Um, there's a, I think a push

513
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:16,080
to think that we have to eat all that stuff, but you can eat beans and rice and lentils and vegetables

514
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:21,840
and be perfectly fine. And not been allowed to do that kind of stuff. As far as why people do it and

515
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:29,520
then stop doing it. Um, for me personally, because I had my own health concerns going into it,

516
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:43,040
but I looked at it. Hey, Hey, I looked at it as, you know, um, almost like an allergy, right? Or a,

517
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:49,280
a, um, a health condition that if I continued to eat animals, I was increasing my cholesterol. I

518
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:55,120
was running risk of heart disease, heart attack, whatever. I like being alive. So I viewed it

519
00:50:55,120 --> 00:51:02,800
as an allergy from basically about three months after four six, oh nine. Um, and so I never really

520
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,640
had a craving. There's a little while at first, the first one, so I was like ice cream, ice cream,

521
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:11,920
because the ice cream 14 years ago was kind of crap. Okay. It's fantastic these days. So,

522
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,840
you know, there's no reason to now be like, I can't have ice cream. Sure you can, you know, um,

523
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:22,400
but really even then it's like, well, I miss this one thing. I think vegan cheese is coming

524
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:27,680
there. It's not quite what it could be, but is it worth the suffering of something else? Is it worth

525
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,600
my health issues? Is it worth the suffering of the animals to make it? Is it worth that? No,

526
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:39,520
no, it's not. It's just not. I think it's not, are you willing to look beyond yourself? Right?

527
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:45,040
Is that matter of my desire? Oh, I really miss cheeseburgers. Oh, okay. So get some

528
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:50,000
wildlife slices, get a Beyond Burger or Impossible Burger and make a burger. Well, it's not the same.

529
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:55,360
No, no one had to suffer for it. You're right. It's not the same. Um, and if that's still not

530
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:59,920
good enough for you, well, that's, that's a, that's a, I know that's a kind of, um, um,

531
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:06,240
I don't say spoiled, but internal, like, I want this is that kind of, um, uh, Veruca from, um,

532
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:09,440
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, you know, I want my Oompa Loompa now or give me that squirrel.

533
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:15,200
Um, it's okay to not have everything. It's okay. You know, I don't have a million dollars. It'd be

534
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:20,000
nice if I had it, but I'm not going to demand it. You know, I mean, um, so I think some people,

535
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:26,080
they either put themselves in a point where I've maybe, maybe they are that angry vegan in their

536
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,560
circle of friends and then no one wants to talk to them and no one wants to hang out with them.

537
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:34,000
And therefore it's hard to be the vegan because if you go at it that way, whereas

538
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:39,760
I go someplace with friends and you know, I mean, I don't know years ago, um, I was hanging out with

539
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,600
a friend of mine from work and some of his friends and went to go see the first Avengers film. So I

540
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:48,080
don't know how that is. And we went out to a restaurant to have a dinner before or after the

541
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:54,480
film. And my option of that restaurant was French fries. That was the vegan option on the, on the

542
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:59,520
on the menu was French fries. So I ordered French fries and I had a beer. I knew it was okay to

543
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:05,520
drink and that's what I have for dinner. And you know what? I'm okay with that. Um, you know,

544
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,400
yeah, I survived and I could have stood in the parking lot and like stared into the window.

545
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:13,440
What was the point in that, you know? Um, and so sometimes you have got to know going some place,

546
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:18,560
you're going to eat the French fries or you're going to have the plain salad with a boring

547
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:23,680
dressing and that's what you're going to have. Okay. Yep. That's part of the deal as you're

548
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:31,040
choosing to make that approach to take a stand for what you believe in. Now, if your own beliefs

549
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:39,920
are weak enough that you can't do that at some point you give it, you fall back, you see,

550
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:47,200
oh, okay. I can't, you know, but I don't know. I, you know, I, I also know for myself, if I were,

551
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,160
if I were to suddenly say, you know what, I got a cheeseburger once a month. Well,

552
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,840
that would turn into once a week, turn into, I don't know, once a day and I'd have a heart attack

553
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:59,680
and you know, shortly that'd be gone. Um, I'm perfectly glad being where I am. But I think

554
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:07,840
for people who convert, I love to know what they feel their story is. Like why, you know, because

555
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:12,480
well, I wasn't unhealthy. What were you eating? I mean, were you eating Oreos and Doritos and

556
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:17,200
Ben and Jerry's or were you eating lentils and beans and a variety of vegetables and all the

557
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:21,360
colors? Like, were you eating the way that I think you and I both eat or were you eating the junk

558
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:27,120
food vegan diet? Because you can eat a junk food, regular diet and stuff like that. It's not the

559
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:31,520
vegan thing. It's what do you choose to eat? You know, you're kind of person, you're just doing

560
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:36,480
microwaves, you know, Annie's burritos. Well, no one do you feel like junk. I mean, nothing is

561
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:43,760
Annie's or Amy's but like, it's fast food, right? It's frozen fast food. You know, learn how to cook,

562
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:49,840
save some money, learn how to cook. I don't know. I mean, I grew up on a very much typical American,

563
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:55,920
you know, meat and potatoes, canned vegetables on the plate, kind of diet, eventually frozen

564
00:54:55,920 --> 00:55:01,760
vegetables. It was fine. It wasn't very exciting. But like, I've learned how to flavor things and

565
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:09,200
do so much more. And people were going to cook a little bit and diversify. And I'll even watch

566
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:14,640
cooking shows that have animal products in them be like, how can I make a vegan version of that?

567
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,400
Because to me, it's not about watching the animal stuff. But it's about the,

568
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:25,440
that sounds interesting. How can I do something different, you know? And then creating something,

569
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:31,600
I mean, I make a bolognese sauce once a week. I use a recipe from Gordon Ramsay, who is not a big

570
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:38,160
vegan fan, by the way. But his recipe, you know, he puts in his pound of mince and I put my pound of

571
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:42,320
Beyond Meat. And it's darn tasty. I don't know what his tastes like, but I know mine's pretty good.

572
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:49,040
And so to me, that's part of it. But I think, and that's the people who quit, I mean, I don't know,

573
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:54,400
I don't want to insult them. They've got their reasons, I'm sure. But I think that's part of the

574
00:55:54,400 --> 00:56:00,240
process. It's like, well, to me, why? I mean, I don't know. I mean, I think to a certain extent,

575
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:06,640
for me, this will sound a weird thing. I can't say that animal products for me were an addiction,

576
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:11,680
because they weren't. But I ate them and they were not good for me. Well, saddened by the fact that

577
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,800
also they also weren't good for the animals I was eating either, because it's bad for the animals.

578
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,880
But they weren't good for me. And I can reach a point where I said, I need to stop doing that,

579
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:25,360
and not keep doing it. And I look at it as I can't go back to it, because it's bad for me. And bad

580
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:29,040
for them. It's bad for the planet. It's bad for all these things, right? It's environment, animals,

581
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:36,720
me, the whole deal. So I don't. I don't cheat. I don't like go, oh, I'll go eat that. No, I don't.

582
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:41,680
I do the thing. And that's just how it is. And that's how it's going to be. It's been 14 years

583
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:51,920
now. I can't imagine suddenly starting tomorrow. I just can't see it. I don't know. Years ago,

584
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:56,320
I was going to get a tattoo across my heart that said plant power. And I didn't, because I didn't

585
00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:01,760
like the design the artist came up with, and I didn't get it done. But yeah, it was more to

586
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:06,640
encourage me to keep going. And at this point, I'm like 14 years, I don't need a tattoo anymore. I

587
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:11,840
got plenty of other tattoos, but I don't need that one. But I just, I mean, family and friends just

588
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:16,160
know Christmas, Thanksgiving. They know that I'm going to show up with food, or they're going to

589
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:22,560
encourage. We hosted Thanksgiving, a bunch of vegan food. It's here you go. Come in here.

590
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:30,400
That's what you're going to get. So you're going to be healthier for it. I hope so. I mean, you

591
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:37,280
know, I mean, but, you know, again, there's still, you know, plenty of, you cover it full of, you

592
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:42,240
know, Earth balance and we're also still not selling all that for you. But you know, I mean,

593
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:45,680
not to, not to the offense, not to the offense of Earth balance, but like, you know, you can make

594
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:54,720
anything unhealthy. Well, you know, Thanksgiving dinners are not made to be healthy. True, true.

595
00:57:55,440 --> 00:58:05,840
Let's not destroy the fun of that event. So Chris has a last question. I would like to ask you,

596
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:16,080
what would you want listeners to retain from our conversation? Well, if, if you're a non-vegan

597
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:23,360
listening to the podcast, I say, give it a try, but give it a try in a way that's supportive.

598
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:27,200
Right. Don't just walk through your kitchen, throw out every single thing you think of the noise

599
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:31,680
normally, you know, maybe again, start with that meatless Monday, maybe a meatless Monday and

600
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:36,320
Wednesday. I don't know. Try something like that. Phase in, right? I think I went, I went cold

601
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:40,320
turkey or cold tofu, if you want to put it that way. And literally to me, it was like a Sunday.

602
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:45,360
I ate something and Monday I didn't, I went all in. Not everyone can do that. Some people need to

603
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:49,440
phase in. A lot of people find cheese really hard, like, okay, so do everything but the cheese for

604
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:53,680
a while, you know? And then if you're going to not do cheese for a while, don't do cheese for a

605
00:58:53,680 --> 00:59:00,640
while. Don't like Monday eat, I don't know, a slice of Land O'Lakes pasteurized, you know,

606
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:05,920
pasteurized plastic cheddar stuff you're going to get in the store and then Tuesday eat Violet.

607
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,440
It's not going to taste the same. You know, for cheese, especially you need like a couple months

608
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:14,480
to like get it out of your system and then try the vegan cheeses. They're all right. They're not

609
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:20,800
great. They're getting better. But I think so for the non-vegans who are listening, try some stuff.

610
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:26,000
You know, just cut some animals out, you know, eat less of them. For the vegans, keep doing what

611
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:36,160
you're doing. I mean, rock on. I just think that it's too easy maybe to just go, oh, I couldn't do

612
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:41,920
it. Well, why? Why couldn't you do it? Like, why? What made you not want to do it? Because certainly

613
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:47,760
14 years ago, there were way less things and options out there, you know? You find a veggie

614
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:52,000
burger in the frozen section that's been there for a while, you know, whereas now there's all kinds

615
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:56,000
of options. You can go to, you know, chain restaurants and they've got Impossible Burgers and Beyond Burgers,

616
00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:00,080
and you can find these things out there. You know, get a Burger King, get an Impossible Upper,

617
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:04,800
although it's on the same grill as Questionable. You know, but like there's just options out there

618
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:10,320
that weren't there before. And so I think, you know, think of yourself, think of the planet,

619
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:15,360
think of the animals, think of nice things. And why not just, you know, if you're already doing it,

620
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:21,840
keep doing it. If you're not doing it yet, think about doing it. Try doing it. I'd say, you know,

621
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:28,080
if you want a support system, not that I'm the end all be all, but you know, I am toe viewing on

622
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:33,280
Instagram. I'm not there that often, but I'm sure if you message me, it'll tag me in some sort of

623
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:40,400
process there, but I'm also on Reddit as TeacherManCT. So be glad to offer anybody input thoughts.

624
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:41,920
That's such a generous offer.

625
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,960
What's it cost me? You know, all the time, right? I mean, no, but like seriously, like,

626
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:52,240
it's when you reached out about the unit, this like, well, why not? What, why have to lose?

627
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:57,280
I mean, you know, it's not an hour of my time. Sure. Why not? You know, if it gets one other

628
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:05,760
person thinking about doing it, isn't that worth it? Yes. And I will leave a link to your Instagram

629
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:11,280
and also your Reddit in the description. I think I will mention it in the introduction too.

630
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:12,500
Excellent.

631
01:01:12,500 --> 01:01:19,700
So Chris, thank you so much. This has been truly a pleasure and you, you made me hungry

632
01:01:21,140 --> 01:01:27,060
after talking about this. I wish you invite me sometime to, to, to your,

633
01:01:28,420 --> 01:01:31,860
to your house, you know, to taste all of those amazing dishes you make.

634
01:01:33,220 --> 01:01:39,460
And yeah, I love it's inspiring how you are strategic in your ways of approaching people.

635
01:01:39,460 --> 01:01:42,500
Truly I love that. So yes.

636
01:01:42,500 --> 01:01:47,380
Well, I'll say thank you. This has been a, been a fun experience and I wasn't sure what I was

637
01:01:47,380 --> 01:01:52,180
getting myself into here. I've done another podcast, another podcast a couple of times as a,

638
01:01:52,180 --> 01:01:59,460
as a guest, as a guest. And this has been a bit, been fun and I'm glad to, I don't know where you,

639
01:01:59,460 --> 01:02:04,820
where you're based in the world, but oh, I'm sure if you're ever going to be in central Connecticut,

640
01:02:04,820 --> 01:02:08,980
well, if you're ever going to be in central Connecticut, let me know, reach out and let me know.

641
01:02:08,980 --> 01:02:11,940
Cause there's always room for one more at the table.

642
01:02:13,060 --> 01:02:19,220
Thank you everyone for listening. Make sure to share this episode with family and friends,

643
01:02:19,220 --> 01:02:26,420
give them a window into the life of a vegan. Next week, we are going to talk about farmers

644
01:02:26,420 --> 01:02:33,620
and farm workers making the choice to adopt a more ethical source of income and the small

645
01:02:33,620 --> 01:02:40,660
dedicated organization called Farm Transition Academy, helping them make that transition

646
01:02:40,660 --> 01:02:47,780
happen. It's so inspiring hearing about workers of this industry turning their back to animal

647
01:02:47,780 --> 01:02:55,140
exploitation. So subscribe now and don't miss out on that feel good conversation. Finally,

648
01:02:55,140 --> 01:03:02,900
you can always reach me on Instagram at vegan report podcast. Thank you again for listening.

649
01:03:02,900 --> 01:03:10,580
Take care and see you next week.