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Hello everyone, my name is Ryan and you're listening to The Vegan Report.

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If you're vegan for the animals and you care to do more for animal rights, but you're not sure

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where to start, then this podcast is for you. Every week, let yourself fall in love with

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passionate animal rights leaders who will inspire you to find your voice, your own special

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contribution to the animal rights movement, however small or big it is. Today we are going

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to talk about slaughterhouses. Usually you can easily trace back the origins of the food in your

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supermarket. This could be said about legumes or fruits, but what about animal products?

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The truth is, most people don't know what happens inside a slaughterhouse. I bet most of you, just

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like me, never visited one. And it's no surprise those factories are located in remote places,

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they don't have any windows, and the rules about who gets in are very strict. Most of what we know

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about slaughterhouses comes from the work of activists who take undercover footage of the

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inside. Today I want to offer you a conversation with someone who has worked for a slaughterhouse,

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but also for farms and ranches. His name is Colin, and he generously accepted to share what he

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witnessed from working for the animal industry. Colin grew up in a family-owned ranch of about

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50 heads of cattle. He actively worked to take care of the ranch during his youth.

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Later, he got an undergraduate degree in animal sciences from Colorado State University.

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While there, he focused on beef systems, taking classes with the famous lecturer Temple Grindon,

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in addition to meat sciences, carcass analysis, humane animal handling classes, and more.

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While in college, he visited various slaughterhouses, dairy factories, small ranches,

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and got a good look at the inner workings of those facilities. This landed him a job working

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for large animals, vets, who specialize in artificial insemination. And a certain experience

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at that job made him embrace ethical veganism. And during the conversation, he openly talks about

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that experience. Shortly after, he did a master in microbiology and is now employed by the health

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sector. Hi, Colin, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here. I wanted to start by

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asking you, what is exactly the difference between a ranch, a farm, a slaughterhouse? What do we mean

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by animal factories? What is this whole animal industry about? Yeah, that's a great question.

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I think a lot of people get very confused on what the difference is between even like a farm,

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a ranch, or what the finishing phase with a lot of animals like a feedlot. And if you're not

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if you're not familiar with the industry, you're probably going to think they're all on all in one

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facility. And there is some overlap with a lot of them. Farming tends to be a lot more just kind of

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plant agriculture based. They don't really tend to deal with a lot of livestock. That's not to say

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that they don't. They may certainly have their, you know, their backyard chickens, or a few sheep,

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or few goats, whatever here and there. But they tend to focus more on crops. And they don't tend

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to focus on one specific thing, generally. Whereas a ranch, majority of ranchers tend to have one

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primary focus. And again, that isn't to say that you won't have somebody who has, you know, X

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amount of cattle, and they don't have a few chickens, they might have some chickens as well,

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but primarily their focus is going to be one animal. And they're going to stick to that,

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and they don't really rotate. They don't really change things up. And then within that, you know,

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you'll have certain things like feedlots, which is, this is not necessarily the same that goes on

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throughout the whole world. The finishing phase with, at least with cattle, is it's a very, very,

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I think, North American thing, you know, this happens a lot in Canada, too. But a feedlot will

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be something that you send your cow to towards the finishing stages of its production cycle.

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And you typically will feed it like a high grain diet. This has a lot of purposes, it'll

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be used to convert like a yellow fat to a white marbled fat, which is a little bit more,

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which appeals more to like the North American palette. You know, you'll notice a lot of,

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for instance, Europeans, when they come over to the United States, they'll note that the

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meat tastes significantly different. Same thing when Americans go to Australia, Europe, Asia,

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the meat, they'll describe the meat as having a gamey taste. And that's because oftentimes,

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the animals in those countries aren't fed a high grain diet at the very end of their life cycle.

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So that's kind of what a feedlot will do. And then a slaughterhouse is going to be a lot more

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where you actually process the animal, where you actually stun it, kill it, open it up. That's

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where you'll have your carcass evaluations. That's a very, very common thing is you'll have somebody

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actually evaluate the carcass, they'll grade the meat, they'll determine if it is acceptable for

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human consumption. You know, and then oftentimes from there, they'll use that as a basis for

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compensation to the producer. The carcass evaluation specifically is a very, very

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key factor for that. So, yeah.

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Farms in terms of business model grow crops, this is the main economical activity. And then

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ranches, they have the livestock, and the slaughterhouse is at the end of the whole process

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when the animal is slaughtered. And the farms, you know, most of the crops go to the farm animals,

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to feeding farm animals. I think that 90% of all our agriculture is food for livestock, and only

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10% or something like that goes to human consumption. Have you noticed that? Have you observed that?

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Yeah, actually, that's very, very true. I've heard a lot of people, for instance, it's

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one of the main arguments I've heard a lot of people say against veganism, they'll say something

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along the lines of, well, you know, the majority of the Amazon rainforest is being destroyed to

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grow soy. And says, yeah, that's true. But the majority of that soy is going to feed livestock.

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And, you know, and that's one of those, you know, reoccurring arguments I've always heard against,

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like the vegan diet, a lot of people will say, well, you know, we use a lot of soy and you can't,

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you know, convert, you know, you can't convert certain land to feed animal, you know,

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for crops to feed people, you need meat to use that land says, well, yeah, but we managed to still

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feed 80 billion livestock throughout the world a year. And we do do that through

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crops. So we certainly grow enough food to feed everyone if we're able to feed a lot of the

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livestock, because we're, when you think about a cow, you know, a cow will weigh, the average

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human probably weighs 150 pounds, you know, 75 kilograms, whereas you'll have a cow that they

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weigh anywhere between 800 to 1200 pounds. I mean, they're, they're oftentimes, you know,

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eight, nine, 10, the size of a human, that is a lot of food they got to eat. Yeah. And they're

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eating all crops. So a lot of food and a lot of water to yes, water. And there's also a lot of

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water runoff as a result, a lot of fecal material ends up getting washed into the water system,

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gets drained in the lakes, rivers, streams. And then, yeah, just the animals themselves have to

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consume a lot of water. That's a big environmental impact. Oh, absolutely massive. When you actually

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look at some of the drought problems we have here, you'll notice that for instance, like the

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Colorado River out west, it's, it's a lot of water, and it's a lot of water, and it's a lot of

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it's going completely empty some years, if you look at the Hoover Dam, these years, you know,

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it used to be filled all the way to the top. Now it's filled very, very low, because water levels

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are getting low. And now you have to supply water, not only to people and supply their homes,

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but we also have to keep the livestock going. Because if you can't give water to your livestock,

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you then need to cull the entire, you know, population. So yeah, water consumption is

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an extremely large factor that is a huge contributor to what goes into animal agriculture.

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It's very surprising, especially if you end up looking at what it takes to produce a gallon of

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milk versus a gallon of, you know, a milk alternative, even the the crops like almonds,

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which also use a large amount of water as in regards to milk alternatives, it's still very

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much lower than a regular standard gallon of cow's milk. So going back to all of those facilities,

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I've been in I've visited plenty of farms. And I think most people have visited farms,

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but I never visited a ranch. So what is it like to visit a ranch? My only reference is that

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TV series called Yellowstone. So how is it like to visit a ranch?

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I actually really like ranches. For me, they're quite a bit of fun. There are a lot of ranches

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that at least what I tend to work with, or what I used to work with, they're smaller facilities.

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You know, typically they'll have maybe 100 head of cattle, they're typically family owned and

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operated. For the most part, they may have some outside help. And that is a big chunk of my

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childhood. So whenever I go see a ranch, you know, it always brings me back to the days when I was

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running around in the field and hanging out with the dogs and getting chased by, you know, cows

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when I was running through on a three wheeler. But I think that's not the only type of situation

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you run into. There are a lot of very, very industrial, large ranches that are very business

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operated. They're very, I wouldn't say structured, but yes, they're a little bit more organized and

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structured and it is a business model and it doesn't have that same, you know, you alluded to

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that show Yellowstone. I haven't seen that. But a lot of ranches are very much like that.

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I presume. I think it has that like family owned and operated type small cowboy yeehaw type thing

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going on. And so that there is certainly a lot of that. But there are also a lot of places that are,

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you know, it's a regular nine to five job, you know, and from an outward appearance, you probably

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wouldn't see, you wouldn't look at it and see anything that's bothersome. But when you start

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getting into the nitty gritty of it, you do even on smaller operations, you do start seeing things

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that are a little bothersome, especially once you're familiar with it. And it's kind of

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interesting when you talk with ranchers and you work with them, to them it's just, you know,

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just typical Saturday and you're sitting there like, well, do we really need to do this to the cow or

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to the sheep or to anything else? But, you know, it's, I always have mixed feelings about ranches.

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You know, like I said, it's something that brings me back to my childhood. It's

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something I'm used to. But being on the vegan side of things, I also have to look at them and it's

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kind of, you know, like going to a, just a, a, you know, like, you know, like, you know,

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just a place of cruelty. So it's, it's, it's a very strange feeling, I guess, for me. Yeah.

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And what about the most inaccessible place, slaughterhouses? What is it like to

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enter in one of those facilities? What is the, is it, is it enormous? Is it obscure? Is it how,

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just describe it for me. Those are, they're very, they are very, very large. It is a,

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it is a factory type setting. It has a very certain distinct odor, obviously, you know,

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it will smell like blood. It will smell like very unwelcoming smell. And you do notice as the animals

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going through the process, I mean, it, to me, it's almost like something out of a horror film. If you

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go down the entire line from start to finish from when the animal is slaughtered, and then they,

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you know, will get hung up on hooks. And then, you know, just as if it is, I mean, it's just a job

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for the people working, but it's very interesting to see somebody in like, you know, coveralls,

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and then they, you know, cut open the animal, and they gut it. And then it goes down the line. And

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then you have a machine that like, the gloves, it rips the skin off. And then, you know, it just,

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it just going down the line. And then you'll see a large line of workers with essentially table

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saws, and they're cutting pieces off, flanks and preparing it. And I don't know if you've,

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how much news you followed with in the industry, but you'll see that there,

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you'll see that there's a lot of, it's very clear that there's a lot of migrant workers.

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And it's, you will, you know, you don't ask a million questions, but you do know that there's

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a lot of bad employment practices going on. I'm not sure if you notice there was a story very,

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very recently where a cleaning facility and Tyson Foods, and I think JBS has well gotten a lot of

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trouble for having underage cleaners in the middle of the night. This is a large facility in Nebraska.

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And, you know, again, you don't ask these types of questions, but you kind of, when you look at

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people working, you can kind of see that that's what's going on. So it, to me personally, it

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feels a little bit like what you would see in a horror movie. It's got a very dark, the lighting

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is not very good. In my opinion, it's not, it's not a bright, sunny place. That's for sure. It's

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definitely something that reminds me of a horror film.

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And what you mentioned about the workers, that's an area where you have vegan activists, animal

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activists, animal rights activists, and social justice activists. And there's this intersection

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between the two because I've seen organizations like Oxfam, who will advocate for the rights of

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those workers, you know, working in those slaughterhouses because of the bad working conditions.

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And you mentioned Tyson, that's one of the worst. I guess there are not a lot of players in that

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industry. No, there's there's a lot of very, you know, there's I think maybe like five really big

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companies, and it changes from time to time. JBS, I think is the largest right now. And when they

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entered the US market, they went and bought like the third and fourth largest. And then they

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and then they essentially just shot up to the largest producer here in the United States.

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But yeah, Tyson's a really big one. Cargill is a huge one. Those I would say are probably like the

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three major ones. And they're constantly in trouble for something. I guess it doesn't really

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matter if you know, you just pay the fine that comes your way and then keep doing what you're

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doing. So now, I want to talk about the different animal species and how they are exploited in

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in this industry. Basically, I want to know what they go through inside those farms and then

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or ranches, and of course, slaughterhouses. And I have prepared some notes with some

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information to give listeners on every one of those animal species because most people don't

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interact with living farm animals, you are one exception. But, you know, they live far away from

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rural areas of or they have no interest for interacting with farm animals. And so people

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have many misconceptions about farm animals. And there are even plenty of people who don't consider

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farm animals to even be sentient. So let's start maybe with cows. And I have this article I'm

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looking at my notes from World Animal Protection. And they say, you know, cattle are naturally

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curious, clever, and even fun loving. In research studies, they have been trained to follow sound,

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to find food in the maze. They are also known to love playing. You mentioned how you played with

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cows in your ranch. When given the space, they will run with each other, play chase and enjoy

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toying with the ball. They also say, let's see, cows have different personalities, some cows are

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bolder and more exploratory than others, they are more likely to explore a new object in their field

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compared with others who might be shy and less curious. Cows can make friends, they can form

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social bonds with other cows and feel stressed when separated from their preferred partners. Cows

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have also different vocalizations, which differ, you know, according to their emotional state. So

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when feeling negative emotions, a cow vocalizations are longer and higher pitch. When cows feel more

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positive, they vocalize less, and their vocalizations are shorter with a lower pitch.

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Cows have a pain phase, which means that their micro facial expressions can show

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when they are in pain, these expressions can be reliably assessed to determine how much pain a cow

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is in following, let's say, a procedure. They have also developed softwares that

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can track the facial expressions of cows to determine what emotions they are feeling,

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including aggressive, neutral, calm and excited. So this is a very complex being. Would you like

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to add something or a comment on one of the points that I read?

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Yeah, I mean, I mean, just the whole thing in general, you know, they are incredibly curious

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animals. They're much more intelligent than I think people give credit for. And you were talking

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about them playing, you know, they play with balls, they will roam. They remind me very much of a dog.

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You know, they're just as friendly, just as playful. And I had a cow. And when I was

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a when I was younger, we had this cow, Sally. And she was, you know, like a dog. She really was,

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you know, you always have this generalization with dogs that when you come home, they're all

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excited to see you. They're wagging their tail. And that was Sally, I would come home from school

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and she would run right up to the fence. And she was happy. And you know, perhaps she just thought

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I was going to give her, you know, a treat or pat her on the head or something. But they are

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incredibly curious and very aware animals. They're not, you know, they're not stupid, by any means.

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And you can tell when they're when they're stressed, you can tell when they're worried,

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they have looks on their face. You know, same things when they're curious, if you're going

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somewhere and you're investigating, they'll they'll all follow you. And they'll they'll give you a nice

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little stare and kind of, you know, try and figure out what you're doing. So pretty much your

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description that you just read off of your notes is is very on point. I was not totally familiar with

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the I'm not surprised by it. I think I had heard that somewhere else. But the unique vocalizations,

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that was actually something I had not really either maybe I just never paid attention or

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I'm not surprised. And they do form special bonds. You do see certain ones hanging out with each

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other each day. When one of them goes missing, you can tell they're missing their friend.

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They're very social creatures. I have a very special place in my heart for cows because they,

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you know, they are like dogs to me.

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And it's weird because, you know, we use words like vocalizations, but it's a voice.

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I mean, they have different voices and they're using them. Anyway, so what is the fate of cows

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in the animal industry?

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Ultimately, it is slaughter period. It doesn't matter if it's a dairy cow or a beef cow. The

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way that they end up getting there might be a little bit different. But ultimately, that is

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the same thing. This is one of those things that I think a lot of people, there's a lot of

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misconceptions about this, particularly with dairy cows that people don't seem to understand.

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But dairy cows do end up getting slaughtered as well for me. And what ends up happening is

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they will get sent to slaughter under two conditions. One, if they're male,

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and I'll get more into that later, but female cows, the primary goal with them when they're in your

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herd is to breed them. You need them to breed. If they don't breed, they're useless. Essentially,

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it's one more mouth to feed. So with a beef operation, you know, that's the primary goal.

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You may make an exception, you know, the first year, if a first year heifer

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being a young cow, essentially, that hasn't been bred before. If they don't get bred on the first

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try, you may give them a chance. If they've been a cow that has bred, you know, four years in a row,

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and then for whatever reason, you know, a year, they don't get pregnant, you might give them a

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second chance. But generally, once they've hit, you know, over four or five years old,

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or if they have two years in a row that they don't breed, you send them to slaughter,

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because you are, you know, one of the largest, at the end of it is a business. And the largest

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cost for producer is food. If you're not producing another cow, you're feeding another cow, that's

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eating into your bottom line, you're making less money. So you do need to send them to slaughter.

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And it's the same thing with, you know, the

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dairy cows. I think a lot of people think that dairy cows just make milk, like magically, there's

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no process involved. But just like all mammals, in order for them to produce milk, they do need

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to get pregnant. There's a hormone that some people might be familiar with as like the mothering

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hormone called oxytocin. But oxytocin is a hormone that's used to produce milk, and it's

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a hormone called oxytocin. But oxytocin is also a smooth muscle relaxer for the mammary glands,

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and it's responsible for milk letdown with pregnancy. If they don't get pregnant, they

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don't produce milk. They don't produce milk. Are they useful to a dairy farmer? Probably not.

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So no matter what, once they've outlived their usefulness, they get sent to slaughter.

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Now it's going to be, you might have a few differences between operations of the longevity

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and how they actually get there. But for a beef cow, typically, they'll be born. And

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the male cows, the first year, well, they typically get sent to slaughter once they reach a certain

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weight. But they're always generally castrated. You don't want them breeding with your cows. You

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typically will use artificial insemination, and then you'll keep a couple bulls on site to kind

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of clean up because artificial insemination is only about 65%, maybe 70% effective. So these

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clean up bulls will finish off the others that don't get pregnant. So those males that do get

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castrated, they essentially get sent to slaughter as soon as it's good for the market. You can get

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the best money for it. Winter comes, you don't have grass on the field. You have to supplement

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feed. You're going to get rid of them. Again, one less mouth to feed. The female cows, you will

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attempt to continuously breed them throughout the cycle throughout the years until they stop

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producing. Once the cow is ready to go, they will get sent to the feed lots. And they'll stay there

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on a really high grain diet. As I mentioned, this is kind of the finishing phase, you know, to

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convert the fat in the animal. You can only do that for a certain amount of time. One, grain

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costs money. Two, if you keep them on a high grain diet for too long, they can actually get

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ruptures in their rumen of their stomach. And that can lead to liver problems, ketoacidosis, just a

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number of diseases. So you keep them on this high grain diet for a few months, you know, maybe up

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to six months, it depends. And then based on the market demands, you'll send them to a slaughterhouse.

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The slaughterhouse and the packaging house, that is kind of the bottleneck in the industry. They

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kind of control all the prices, essentially. So your choice of when to send an animal to slaughter

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is going to be based very, very much on what they are deciding. Because they're controlling the

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price, they're controlling supply and demand. So you're going to always try and get the best,

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most amount of money for your cow. So that's going to drive the thing. So dairy cows are kind of

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essentially the same thing. Once they stop producing milk, they go through the same process. So they

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can go to a feedlot. I believe it's less than maybe five or 10% of cows that are grass fed. I know

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that's a big marketing thing. And those are cows that are generally not sent to a feedlot. That's

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why they'll tend to have a little bit more of like a it's described as a gamey taste, you know, like,

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dim like beer, or the type of meat that you would get in Europe or Australia or New Zealand doesn't

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have the same flavor. But that's why they're grass fed. And that's just a very small portion.

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And the cows that are producing milk, first of all, all of that breeding process, this must be

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very taxing on their bodies. Have you seen those? You know, what are the conditions, their health

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conditions after all of that process of continuously getting impregnated?

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Um, it certainly takes a toll on them. But I don't think that it really produces particularly

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long term health conditions, not because it's not bad for them. But the average lifespan of these cows

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is maybe four or five years. I think if you were to continuously try and breed them for, you know,

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1015 years, you would start to see some very serious health issues. But because they do end

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up having a shorter lifespan, I just don't think that that really develops to the point of making

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them have very serious or at least noticeable health benefits. Or health problems. Yeah, they

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they certainly do. I'm sure they get, you know, ruptures in their pelvic cavity. You know, you can

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have complications. But I think a lot of those complications are mitigated by breeding practices.

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I know there used to be a lot of issues with dystocia, which is essentially the fetus is,

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or is either too large, or it's in an awkward position. This has been kind of, and that that

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would cause a lot of health problems, a lot of excess bleeding, a lot of damage just to the cow.

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The reason for that was that in years past, the industry was very, or at least producers were

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very, very focused on having a very high birthing weight. A thought process being if you have a high

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birthing weight, then they will get up to a higher weight by the time you send them to slaughter.

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But what they were finding is that they would have to they would have these really, really large cows,

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calves growing in the bellies of their moms. And then when it came time to give birth,

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they're having dystocia and they couldn't actually push them through the canals.

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You would have to get a worker or rancher to go out there in the middle of a night on a cold February

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and help the cow actually get pulled, get pulled a calf from the cow.

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So what they started doing is they've started focusing their breeding goals on having lower

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body weights for the calves in order to prevent these issues with dystocia. So like I said,

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there are certainly health issues. A lot of those have been mitigated by breeding for smaller birthing

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weights. But yeah, I'm sure those issues continue if you kept breeding them. And what about the milk?

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The milk is supposed to go to the baby. And we're taking the milk. How does that happen? I guess the

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baby is separated from the mother. And then what happens to the baby? Does the mother react to that

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separation? Could you tell us about that? The mothers are extremely upset. You will see them

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following the vehicle. Like if you put the calf into a car or into the back of a truck, you'll

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see the mothers chase after it. They will cry out for their child. They are extremely upset.

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When you were talking earlier about them bonding and them having just these emotions,

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it's actually really quite heartbreaking to see that. And I'm sure if you monitored those cows

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for a long time, you would see a lot of really just upset cows. Isolated, not social, because

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they've had their child taken from them. And the calves, perhaps they're young, they're not quite

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as aware, but you can tell they're also missing something. If you ever go to one of the areas

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where they keep the calves after they're separated from the mother, they keep them chained up.

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They almost look like dog houses. They're essentially just these little pins. And

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I wish I had sent you some pictures before we actually started this meeting. I have some

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pictures of little calves. They're sucking on my fingers. They want their mother's

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feet so that they can feed. You can tell that they're very upset about it.

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And I think you were at, and I don't think people, this is another one of the downsides with the

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dairy industry that I think a lot of people are just completely unaware of. This is why veal exists.

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When you take the calf from its mom, you have to do something with that calf.

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You send it for veal. You slaughter it at a very young age. What is veal? Veal is essentially baby

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calf. It's a very, very tender meat. Yes. Yeah. Some people love it, but it is a by-product of

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the dairy industry because you have to get rid of those calves somehow. If you can't let them feed

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on their mother's milk, then you have to do something. They're not going to survive anyway.

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Not likely. I mean, you could essentially give them something supplemental, but a lot of the,

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I'm going to call them immunoglobulins. A lot of the things that you get for your immune system,

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you get as a baby from your mother. These cows are being deprived of that, so they are much more

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susceptible to diseases. You could theoretically give them something to supplement that, but it's

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still not going to be as good. You're still going to have health issues. Yeah, they're likely to

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not survive, or if they do survive, they're not going to be very healthy.

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Did you have anything more to say about cows? No. I went very long with cows. As you can tell,

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I like cows a lot. Well, then let's go to chickens, which I think is one of the most common

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farm animals. Again, an article from World Animal Protection, chickens can be very dangerous.

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Again, an article from World Animal Protection, chickens can recognize up to a hundred faces.

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Chickens dream, similar to dogs and cats, who may act like they're chasing something while asleep.

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Chickens also have vivid dreams. Chickens pass down information.

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So chickens pass down knowledge from generation to generation, if given the chance. This one is

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really heartwarming. Chickens chirp to their eggs, and you'll even hear the babies chirp back.

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Babies chirp back. They also make around 30 different calls to communicate with each other,

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expressing everything from things for the food to there is a predator in the coop.

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Also, chickens have great memory. They can solve puzzles by picking the pieces with their beaks

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to let their human helpers know which one goes where. So there were experiments made around that.

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Another one, which is cute, chickens purr. They will purr like cats. And I know those facts

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surprise people because I think chickens have this image of being very stupid creatures.

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But yet, if you kept a chicken in your backyard or something like that,

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every one of those facts about chickens, you would find them to be true.

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So what kind of treatment chickens experience in the animal industry?

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Chicken, I think sometimes, and again, this isn't, chickens aren't something that I've worked a lot

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with, but chickens, oftentimes, are in very, very large scale operations. And I don't know if you

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ever heard about, oftentimes, chickens are, they have their beaks removed. Yeah, because they,

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they will kind of go crazy because they're in these very tight cramped facilities. And they will

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essentially go mentally insane and start attacking one another. So they preemptively will remove a

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lot of their beaks in many cases. They are put into just these really tight confined areas. They're

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not really allowed to move around. You know, I've, I've heard frequently of chickens being

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bred to be so large that they literally physically cannot walk. Because again,

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this industry is driven by money. So you're trying to get the most meat off of the animal as you can.

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You know, and, and chickens are just, I think, probably in just some of the some of the worst

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conditions. And even, you know, there's a lot of marketing terms like, you know,

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you know, there's a lot of marketing terms like free range, which I had a I was very unaware of

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this at the time, because I hadn't had a lot of experience with chickens. But I remember

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talking with a professor of mine in college. And he was one of the main professors he read,

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ran one of my livestock courses. And he basically said, you know, the term free range,

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like you do know that this is kind of essentially just, yes. You know, it all that essentially

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means is that you can just open a door. And if you leave the food inside, the chicken not going

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outside. But that's all free range really essentially means it's kind of a misnomer to sell more food.

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Yeah, I, I'm always amazed at just how kind of bottom of the totem pole chickens are treated.

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You know, and it's, it's really, it's kind of interesting when you think about like, how far

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we've come with them on a genetic basis. You know, chickens aren't meant to have an egg every single

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day. They're meant to produce maybe, you know, a

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15 to 20 a year, you know, one or two a month. And we've just created these absolute genetic

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monsters that are so incredibly unhealthy. I'm sure they feel absolutely disgusting. And they're

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kept in very, very hot, just disgusting rodent infested, you know, feces filled facilities.

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Yeah. Yeah. And every activity involving, you know, chickens, I mentioned getting chickens in

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your backyard. Don't do that. Okay. This is something, you know, in rural cities, you will

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find that even in big cities, you find people who will keep chickens in their backyard. And it's a

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horrible, horrible activity, you know, because first of all, there are a lot of farmers who will

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sell you a rooster instead of a chicken. And you won't notice until the last minute and then you

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have to get rid of those roosters. Because in many cities, it is forbidden to have roosters, they

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do a lot of noise pollution. And then they stop producing egg and people want to get rid of them

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after maybe a year or two. Because why would I keep a chicken in my backyard if the chicken is not

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giving egg and farmers will not take them? Always take them. Because there are some rules concerning,

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you know, sicknesses and stuff. Not to have, you know, to have a contamination from an outside

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chicken. And it's just a big, big mess. And I don't understand why it is allowed.

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Yes. Yeah, it's, you know, speaking on what you're talking about with roosters,

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you know, roosters are extremely, they can be extremely aggressive. Their meat isn't particularly

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tasty. So you don't really want to slaughter them for food. So and as a result of that, even if

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you're getting, you know, your backyard chickens, you think, oh, it's cruelty free, it's cute, it's,

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you know, they're running around and they're maybe eating the bugs and keeping the garden clean and

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everything. And yeah, that might be the case with the chickens. But, you know, about 50% of what they

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give birth to is a rooster. So as a result of that, I think a lot of people are unaware that

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when people when chickens are getting sexed, when they're born, somebody looks at them.

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And, you know, pull some feathers aside. They have very, very good eyes for this, but they detect

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which ones are the males, and they throw them into a wood chipper. I mean, the male chickens are just

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shredded to pieces from day one. And I don't think people realize that that's the 50% of the chicken

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population. So even if you're going with the backyard chicken thing, you're still killing a

379
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:30,960
lot of chickens from the get go. Yes. From the start, before you even purchase that chicken,

380
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,800
for every one, you know, chicken you've purchased, another one has already died.

381
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:49,520
And I think, you know, even then, we've had a lot of issues with disease outbreaks. I do definitely

382
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:55,520
foresee the, I wouldn't be surprised if one of these days, there's a city that does allow

383
00:45:55,520 --> 00:46:00,240
backyard chickens that says that we need to, you know, everybody who has a chicken, you need to call

384
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:06,400
them, because we have a huge avian influenza outbreak. You know, a lot of these larger chicken

385
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:14,960
facilities are, you know, huge, you know, areas where these diseases can proliferate. And that

386
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:24,320
will absolutely spread into these neighborhood backyard chickens. And, you know, I've heard some

387
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:34,400
instances of avian influenza jumping from poultry to humans. I think as time goes on, we're going to

388
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:40,400
see more and more cases of that. And we're going to see a lot of instances where that happens,

389
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:48,000
where people do have backyard chickens. I think it's going to be a huge, huge thing.

390
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:56,400
Yes. And then of course, they will have to get rid of them. Not in the most human way.

391
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:06,800
If there is no, no, I've, they, they burn them alive, they drown them in foam. They do all sorts

392
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:13,840
of just, because you have to kill, you know, countless numbers of chickens. So they do it in

393
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:21,440
the most economically feasible way possible, you know, and that's often by flooding. I think the

394
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:26,720
most common way to do a mass calling is they will flood it with the, with foam that firefighters use.

395
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:33,200
I can't imagine that's, that can't be very enjoyable for the chickens, I'm sure. But

396
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:34,960
yeah, it happens.

397
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:49,760
So let's go to now pigs, which is maybe the most, an interesting case. And every time,

398
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:58,080
you know, people talk about being vegetarian or vegan, they will often say, but bacon, bacon,

399
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:06,480
bacon is so good. So again, this is from World Animal Protection. Pigs are very clean animals.

400
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:12,000
And this goes against popular wisdom. In fact, there are some of the cleanest animals around and

401
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:19,920
refuse to defecate where they sleep and eat if given the choice. Even newborn piglets will leave

402
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:26,640
their sleeping areas to relieve their hunger. And they will also be able to eat their food.

403
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:31,600
So even if a pig is trying to defecate on the grass, the Ricotta is able to eat the goings

404
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:40,640
to the grass to relieve themselves. That is a very surprising fact. Even puppies

405
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:48,560
don't go that far. I mean, you have to train your dog to go out and do its business.

406
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:54,880
Pigs can sweat, you know, sweating like a pig is another misleading and commonly used phrase.

407
00:48:54,880 --> 00:49:03,200
glands so they roll around and sleep in mud and swim in water to keep cool.

408
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:10,440
And a bonus to rolling in mud, it helps keep a pig's skin from getting sunburned because

409
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:14,700
a pig's skin is very sensitive.

410
00:49:14,700 --> 00:49:17,340
Pigs are smarter than your dog.

411
00:49:17,340 --> 00:49:22,960
Pigs have the intelligence of a human toddler and are ranked as the fifth most intelligent

412
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:24,560
animal in the world.

413
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:30,240
In fact, pigs are more intelligent and trainable than any breed of dog.

414
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:36,380
They learn their names in just two weeks and come when they're called.

415
00:49:36,380 --> 00:49:43,200
Pigs even are capable of playing video games better than some primates.

416
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,020
Mother pigs sing to their babies.

417
00:49:46,020 --> 00:49:49,360
This is one of the swithest facts about pigs.

418
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,260
Mother pigs sing to the babies while nursing.

419
00:49:53,260 --> 00:49:55,840
Pigs have an excellent sense of direction.

420
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,200
They're good navigators.

421
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,700
They can find their way home over large distances.

422
00:50:00,700 --> 00:50:10,040
They can often trot long distances and can reach up to 11 miles per hour running.

423
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,460
Pigs dreams and like to sleep nose to nose.

424
00:50:13,460 --> 00:50:20,340
Pigs love to stay connected with each other by sleeping close together, often making sure

425
00:50:20,340 --> 00:50:25,800
to touch their friends while they drift off.

426
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:31,960
Pigs also have excellent memories, especially when it comes to object location.

427
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:39,900
If they find a great spot, they'll remember to look at the great spot again even after

428
00:50:39,900 --> 00:50:43,600
a week or weeks.

429
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:48,400
So how do we treat pigs in the animal industry?

430
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:58,040
Pigs are one of the most surprising things that I had always seen with pig facilities

431
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:05,360
I've been on is they are kept in very tiny confined areas.

432
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:09,400
And I think the justification is generally that you don't want the mother to roll over

433
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,520
onto the piglets as they're feeding.

434
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:26,560
They are, pigs are one of the surprising ones because people often talk about animal intelligence.

435
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:33,920
And for some odd reason, I've seen that people seem to want to almost be just very cruel

436
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:35,000
to them.

437
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:41,040
I've seen people kind of kick at them.

438
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:47,440
Often there's a lot of issues with them getting a lot of electro prods and shocks.

439
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,600
And this may very well be in part due to their intelligence.

440
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:55,920
Maybe they're a little bit more likely to get themselves into trouble, try and get through

441
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:02,400
gates, try and cause a little bit of a ruckus.

442
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:11,640
But pigs are just, the most heartbreaking thing really is to see these pigs in these

443
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:16,720
really tiny confined areas.

444
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:21,560
They basically have to lay down their entire lives.

445
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,840
Your male breeding pigs might have a little bit more freedom to roam around.

446
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,200
But again, they're going to try and they might cause some ruckus.

447
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:34,680
So there's a little bit more limitations, but the mothers are, they're essentially pinned

448
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,260
down.

449
00:52:37,260 --> 00:52:41,760
They get very limited movement.

450
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:48,560
That's probably to me one of the most heartbreaking things I've seen with these animals, especially

451
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:54,240
when you consider how intelligent and inquisitive they can be.

452
00:52:54,240 --> 00:52:55,240
They're extremely curious.

453
00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:59,240
And I don't know how we can limit them like that.

454
00:52:59,240 --> 00:53:00,240
Yeah.

455
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:02,240
Smarter than a dog.

456
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:03,240
Yeah.

457
00:53:03,240 --> 00:53:09,000
And I don't think necessarily that how intelligent an animal is should determine whether or not

458
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,440
cruel to it, not by any means.

459
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:21,320
But we use pigs are notoriously well known for finding truffles.

460
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:25,840
As you said, you know, they have well developed noses.

461
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,240
They're easier to train than dogs.

462
00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:30,480
They can do more things.

463
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:36,720
It's actually kind of surprising that we don't utilize them for those abilities.

464
00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:41,840
And I often wonder if that's just strictly a cultural thing.

465
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:43,560
You know, we've been doing it for thousands of years.

466
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:47,080
So why change?

467
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:52,520
But yeah, like you said, they're way up there past dogs a lot of times.

468
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,040
But people love their dogs.

469
00:53:55,040 --> 00:54:01,080
Yeah, I think there's a big cultural component associated with pigs.

470
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,100
I mean, I mean, it's an insult.

471
00:54:03,100 --> 00:54:09,560
If someone calls you a pig, it's one of the worst insults.

472
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:15,640
And to think that this is just an innocent creature with the intelligence of a toddler.

473
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,680
I mean, little toddler.

474
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,040
It's quite crazy.

475
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:30,040
There's a madness associated to how disconnected we are to their reality.

476
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:36,700
Okay, let's end with sheep.

477
00:54:36,700 --> 00:54:40,720
This is from an article from PETA.

478
00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:47,640
They say cheap sheep are gentle, sensitive animals who are emotionally complex and highly

479
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:48,880
intelligent.

480
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:56,240
There's Keith Kendrick, a professor of medicine at Gresham College in London, London, found

481
00:54:56,240 --> 00:55:02,000
that sheep can distinguish between different expressions in humans and can detect changes

482
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,240
in the faces of anxious sheep.

483
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:11,360
He also discovered that sheep recognize the faces of at least 50 other sheep and can remember

484
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:16,480
50 different images for up to two years.

485
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:22,120
And then you have Professor John Webster of the University of Bristol, who found that

486
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:28,160
like humans, sheep visibly express emotions when they experience stress or isolation,

487
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:34,160
they show signs of depression, similar to those that humans show by hanging their heads

488
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,960
and avoiding positive actions.

489
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:42,120
Like us, sheep experience fear when they're separated from their social groups.

490
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:43,200
This one is interesting.

491
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:49,080
Sheep's heart rates have been found to increase by 20 beats per minute when they're unable

492
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:56,920
to see any members of their flock and by 84 beats per minute when approached by men and

493
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:00,080
a dog.

494
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:06,200
Sheep are more common in Europe.

495
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:13,040
New Zealand also have big sheep ranches.

496
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:21,040
So what have you seen and what could you say about sheep?

497
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:30,760
So actually where I was spending, where I lived between probably about 2013 to 2021,

498
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:35,240
I actually lived in an area where I had a very large amount of sheep.

499
00:56:35,240 --> 00:56:42,040
I was out near, I was just south of the Wyoming border, Northern Colorado and Wyoming have

500
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,360
a very large sheep population.

501
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,720
That's actually most of the slaughterhouses that I've been to were sheep processing facilities.

502
00:56:49,720 --> 00:56:59,440
I'm not sure how much I, not to say that sheep are stupid.

503
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:07,040
I don't know if I would necessarily call sheep smart and maybe this is my own bias, but I've

504
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:11,080
heard a number of people always joke that sheep are so stupid that they'd be the only

505
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:16,600
animal that if they got out of their, wherever they live, they would actually be able to

506
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:23,440
survive in the wild because they're just that pure dumb luck.

507
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:28,600
But no, sheep are extremely emotional, as you said.

508
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:32,660
And they certainly do become extremely fearful when they get separated.

509
00:57:32,660 --> 00:57:38,920
This may do be in part very much so because they are kind of a quintessential prey animal.

510
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:45,800
They don't really have a lot of defenses to speak of.

511
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:52,000
We had mountain lions where I lived and they're certainly a target of mountain lions.

512
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:57,480
You don't want them to get, they don't want to get separated from their flock at all,

513
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:01,940
especially if you have coyotes and mountain lions that singles them out.

514
00:58:01,940 --> 00:58:04,280
So I think they just have that instinctual drive.

515
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:09,040
They know if they're separated, they become a target.

516
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,120
There's safety in numbers.

517
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:17,200
But I've done a decent amount of sheep shearing.

518
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:18,720
What is she really?

519
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:19,720
Sheep shearing.

520
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:24,040
So you actually shave the wool off of them.

521
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:33,620
Modern day sheep have bred to the point that they grow such excessive amounts of wool.

522
00:58:33,620 --> 00:58:34,620
You have to shave it.

523
00:58:34,620 --> 00:58:40,840
Otherwise you can start running into just a number of issues, skin issues, more prone

524
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:43,840
to bugs.

525
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:44,840
There's all sorts of things.

526
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:54,160
So you shave it and that now becomes a product that you can sell.

527
00:58:54,160 --> 00:59:03,360
But natural, like sheep that live in the wild obviously do fine without people shaving them,

528
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:05,020
shearing them.

529
00:59:05,020 --> 00:59:09,680
We have bred them to the point that it's now a requirement essentially for the health and

530
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:12,480
well-being of the sheep.

531
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:16,200
This is the same thing with a lot of these livestock animals, like chickens are bred

532
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,800
to be so large.

533
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,160
Cows are bred for this huge weight.

534
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:22,960
Same thing with sheep.

535
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:29,760
We push their genetics to a point that it's become unhealthy for them.

536
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:35,480
But sheep are absolutely fantastic animals.

537
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:43,280
They have a little bit of butt heads, they will run you down, they will poke into you.

538
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:47,160
But they're adorable nonetheless.

539
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:54,120
I'm quite fond of sheep.

540
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:58,880
They're treated very similarly I think to cows a lot of times just in their general

541
00:59:58,880 --> 00:59:59,880
treatment.

542
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:10,880
We don't brand them with a hot iron like a cow, but they get selected a lot of times

543
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:17,480
based on their breeding abilities.

544
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:21,080
Sheep are one of the few livestock animals that can produce twins.

545
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,120
So that's something you might breed on.

546
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:34,360
If they produce twins you'll keep them cycling them year after year.

547
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:38,280
I don't really have a whole lot more to add to sheep that I haven't really talked about

548
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:39,960
with some of the other livestock.

549
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:43,320
There's a lot of overlap there.

550
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:48,880
I will say I don't know how I feel about the sheep being the smarter ones.

551
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:54,120
Sometimes I think it's just pure dumb luck with them.

552
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:55,120
But I love them.

553
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:58,120
I mean it's PETA.

554
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,960
PETA certainly has their own bias.

555
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:07,520
I'm sure they're going to call every single animal smart.

556
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:14,880
So I'm curious Colin, you've experienced a lot in that industry.

557
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:22,080
And you're one of the few who after that experience decided to not only stop working for that

558
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:26,000
industry but become vegan.

559
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:32,560
Which is a lot of vegans will say becoming vegan is easy, you can do it, everyone can

560
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:34,680
do it.

561
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:37,960
It's pretty radical in a way.

562
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:47,240
It's something that asks of you a different perspective on the world and taking your distance

563
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:52,480
from culture and society.

564
01:01:52,480 --> 01:02:04,280
So what exactly made you step away from that industry and become vegan?

565
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,520
It's really, really a long journey I think.

566
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:13,360
I think the first seed that kind of got planted in my head was earlier I mentioned that cow

567
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:17,560
that we had when I was a kid named Sally.

568
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:21,220
And that sort of I think planted in my mind.

569
01:02:21,220 --> 01:02:27,000
I was having this disconnection of why is it that my dog sleeps in my bed and I go hang

570
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:32,240
out with them and all this and then one day I'm going to eat Sally.

571
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:36,280
That kind of and that was something I thought about even years after Sally had eventually

572
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:38,960
been sent to slaughter.

573
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,520
And it was a very difficult thing because I always grew up.

574
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:46,760
I grew up hunting, I grew up fishing and even to this day there's a lot of those skills

575
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:51,960
that I still carry with me even on a day to day basis.

576
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:56,040
And I think a lot of people I can talk to and they'd be like wait, wait you're vegan

577
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:58,280
but you XYZ.

578
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:04,040
You know how to fish, you know how to gut an animal, you know how this and that.

579
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:10,600
It's really, really surprising but I in high school it eventually culminated thinking about

580
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:14,720
Sally and learning more and more a little bit more about animal agriculture and how

581
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:16,800
much I loved animals.

582
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:24,880
I decided to go vegetarian because I think there's and you'll hear from a lot of vegetarians

583
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:32,920
or even non-vegetarians saying oh I could never go vegan, bacon, I love cheese.

584
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:33,920
That was me.

585
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:34,920
That was absolutely me.

586
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:41,560
You know I recognized that there was things that were wrong with it but you know I wasn't

587
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:45,400
quite, you know I just thought oh it's just too difficult.

588
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:48,760
I couldn't give up my cheese, my pizza and all that.

589
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:54,680
And then when I went to college, you know I did my undergrad in animal science and I

590
01:03:54,680 --> 01:04:00,720
was learning more and more about the industry as a whole.

591
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:04,840
You know as a kid when I worked on a ranch I had never had as much opportunity to work

592
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:09,220
in like a slaughterhouse but now I had to.

593
01:04:09,220 --> 01:04:14,820
Now I had to do, you know and I remember taking like a carcass evaluation course and that

594
01:04:14,820 --> 01:04:21,320
course was the beginning of the week you see the animal, you as alive, you palpate you

595
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:27,720
know the fat on its back, you see its muscles, you see its skin, you see all this, you give

596
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:34,160
it a grade and then at the end of the week they slaughter it and you have the carcass

597
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:38,320
and then you have to evaluate the carcass and it was very strange seeing this animal

598
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:45,160
and it's just whatever and then the end of the week you see its dead carcass.

599
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:51,560
But the thing that really really drove me, kind of the very final thing was I had been

600
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:56,280
working for a dairy, on a dairy farm.

601
01:04:56,280 --> 01:05:02,000
I had been working with a veterinarian, a large animal veterinarian and we were doing,

602
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:07,320
we were mostly doing animal reproduction work for cows but part of that we also had

603
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:17,160
to go do regular veterinary work and we had this dairy cow that you know she was very

604
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:24,680
very sweet, she was great but she was down on the floor and she wasn't walking.

605
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:28,080
Typically in the United States you can't send an animal to slaughter if it's not able to

606
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:31,640
stand up on its own weight.

607
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:39,760
So essentially you have 800 pounds, a thousand pounds of wasted money.

608
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:47,760
So we essentially, we gave it steroids hoping that it would get up and go on living and

609
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:50,360
walking.

610
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:51,440
That didn't happen.

611
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:57,280
We came back the next day and it was still there.

612
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:04,880
So my boss essentially had me euthanize it and euthanasia with livestock, it's not you

613
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:11,760
know a hundred dollars of you know barbiturates and chemicals and the peaceful like quiet

614
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:12,800
thing.

615
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:19,720
You shoot it in the back of the head and I remember shooting it in the back of the head

616
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:31,160
and it just, it really really, it really got to me because I was sitting there you know

617
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:34,680
for many years saying you know I wanted to help animals.

618
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:38,720
I wanted to be, I really cared about animal husbandry, I really love these animals, I

619
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:44,400
always consider myself an animal lover and yet here I am doing this.

620
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:46,760
I don't want to contribute this to this anymore.

621
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:53,720
I don't want to give any more of my money to this even if it's you know dairy cows,

622
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:57,360
chickens, backyard eggs, any of it.

623
01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:03,960
So from there I ended up going vegan because I just, I couldn't see myself thinking of

624
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:08,800
myself as an animal lover and still contributing in this way.

625
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:17,680
So yeah it was a very very drastic change.

626
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:24,760
It's been certainly very interesting you know when I talk to people from my past you know

627
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:30,320
I'll talk to family and they're kind of very taken aback you know and they just, they're

628
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:35,340
not aggressive against it you know they're not you know I don't get as much pushback

629
01:07:35,340 --> 01:07:42,960
as you would expect but you, but I do get a lot of the you know I could just never do

630
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:43,960
that.

631
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:48,360
I love bacon and cheese too much so I try and always have just an honest genuine conversation

632
01:07:48,360 --> 01:08:00,560
with them and you know maybe as I go maybe I'll convert a few people along the way.

633
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:07,080
I was trying to talk to people and have you know critical discussions and make people

634
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:10,920
you know have these realizations even the other day I was at work.

635
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:12,320
I work in a hospital now.

636
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:19,520
I do very different work now but I was having a conversation with a co-worker the other

637
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:23,920
day and she was saying yeah I think you know people who abuse animals we should punish

638
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:30,880
them and lock them up and have these really really you know harsh penalties for it and

639
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:37,600
I look at her and I say you do realize you're eating a ham sandwich right now right and

640
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:39,560
I didn't quite say it like that.

641
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:44,360
I was a little bit more diplomatic about it but you know it was kind of one of those things

642
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:49,680
she said she's like you know you can kind of see your gears turning and I think that's

643
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:55,920
just I myself needed that you know I needed to have something to trigger those gears to

644
01:08:55,920 --> 01:09:03,120
start turning and I think that's just kind of what a lot of other people are missing

645
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:04,320
as well.

646
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:08,720
I think when people really sit down and they start critically thinking about these things

647
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:15,920
you'll start seeing more and more people going vegan or plant-based which we're already seeing

648
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:20,200
you know you go into the grocery store and now you see a million alternatives that weren't

649
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:21,440
there 20 years ago.

650
01:09:21,440 --> 01:09:27,560
I know I'm originally originally originally I'm from Germany and went back to visit family

651
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:34,680
recently and there's vegan options everywhere and apparently like meat consumption is down

652
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:41,560
20% or something like that so there's definitely a growing you know people are starting to

653
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:47,520
realize what's going on in the industry and realizing that we don't need animal products

654
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:48,520
to live.

655
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:55,080
We can live perfectly fine and healthy and even better sometimes oftentimes without these

656
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:56,320
products.

657
01:09:56,320 --> 01:10:06,480
Well I have to say what you decided the action you decided to take is very admirable and

658
01:10:06,480 --> 01:10:11,560
that's what you expect from a decent human being.

659
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:20,320
Why do you think others who work in that industry have not jumped out of the this nightmare

660
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:29,180
those nightmare factories and those practices why are they still doing what they're doing

661
01:10:29,180 --> 01:10:37,960
even though they might have you know slaughtered innocent creatures like that cow.

662
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:41,160
Do you have any reflection on that.

663
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:48,040
Yeah I mean ultimately a lot of it does money makes the world go round.

664
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:55,640
I think that's a huge contributing factor as I mentioned earlier you have you know when

665
01:10:55,640 --> 01:11:01,840
I was talking about people who work in these slaughterhouses oftentimes they are you know

666
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:06,640
without going up and asking them for you know legal documentation they're often migrant

667
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:13,520
workers who are oftentimes illegally here with you know you know wrong information.

668
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:16,920
These are the facilities that are choosing to employ them.

669
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:22,360
The people working there are often going to they have to make a decision.

670
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:28,680
Do I feed my family with a paycheck do I get a paycheck do I feed them or do I work in

671
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:29,680
this industry.

672
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:33,920
They're often going to choose to work in this industry because they have family at home

673
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:38,680
to feed they have bills to pay and that's these are the facilities where they can get

674
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:40,840
jobs at.

675
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:45,760
You know I was I was even talking about you know there was underage workers 13 and 14

676
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:52,560
year old workers at the plant in Nebraska that you know they recently came under fire.

677
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:56,560
Thirteen and fourteen year olds don't want to work a night shift at a slaughterhouse

678
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,120
cleaning.

679
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:04,040
They need money though people need to pay bills so there are these kids are often forced

680
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:07,480
into that type of thing.

681
01:12:07,480 --> 01:12:15,480
You know and even for a lot of the other players in the industry you know the regular rancher

682
01:12:15,480 --> 01:12:20,160
who is just raising 20 cows he's not working in the slaughterhouse.

683
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:28,960
It is a very you know meat is a very cultural thing very very ingrained in our society.

684
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:34,660
So it's very very hard for people to give up that aspect of their life.

685
01:12:34,660 --> 01:12:40,520
Even for me personally like I think about like fish and hunting you know that's I love

686
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:42,960
fishing.

687
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:49,200
I loved going out with my buddies on you know the canoe and we would sit out there and fish

688
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:55,640
and you know have a great time and it was just awesome.

689
01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:58,720
And you know but that is an activity like I do miss.

690
01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:03,520
It's not even it's not the eating the fish it's just an activity I miss it was so you

691
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:07,920
know part of my culture and just part of who I am.

692
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:17,040
And to this day you know I still you know I don't hunt but I still go and I end up I

693
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:21,640
still do like long range rifle shooting and I'll oftentimes talk with some of these people

694
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:26,760
who do hunt and you can tell that them going and taking their son hunting that's a bonding

695
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:29,000
experience that they have.

696
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:33,060
You know their dad took them hunting so they want to take their son's hunting.

697
01:13:33,060 --> 01:13:38,920
It's just a very cultural thing to them and it's very very hard for them to break those

698
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:41,720
habits.

699
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:46,760
But you know as I said it's a slow process.

700
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:52,960
You're seeing more and more people moving away from animal agriculture and eating animals

701
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:59,320
to plant based diets but it's going to take time.

702
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:05,320
And I do see that I do believe that the animal agriculture industry is going to start shrinking

703
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:10,040
significantly in the future.

704
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:17,680
Hopefully hopefully and I'm so happy that you exist and that you share your experience

705
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:19,040
so openly.

706
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:25,640
I think it's important to hear from people who not only you know have seen those because

707
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:32,600
that's one thing to watch a movie like Dominion but it's another to talk to someone who has

708
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:39,200
actual experience backing up who can say you know I've witnessed that I know that this

709
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:46,200
is happening and this is real and not only that but you've made changes radical changes

710
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:52,080
in your life to align with your ethical beliefs.

711
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:54,240
Again it's very admirable.

712
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:58,600
Did you have something to add before we end this conversation.

713
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:04,080
I know we probably went a little bit over the time.

714
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:11,400
But you know I would definitely for the viewers of this that you know aren't vegan or considering

715
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:22,280
going vegan you know I would certainly encourage them to look into it and realize that you

716
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:26,240
know people say it's an extremely difficult thing and it's not to say that there aren't

717
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:27,840
difficulties with it.

718
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:31,880
You know it will certainly impact you know your social life to some degree.

719
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:35,680
You know all your friends go out to eat a pizza and oh there's nothing for the vegan

720
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:36,680
to eat.

721
01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:41,480
You know you will get you know my best friend even he drives me up the wall he tells me

722
01:15:41,480 --> 01:15:48,960
all the time Colin you should stop being vegan and you know we have a back and forth and

723
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:51,680
you know it's one of those things.

724
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:55,040
But don't let those discourage you.

725
01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:58,120
It is it's becoming easier.

726
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:04,280
The world is going vegan even even just everywhere in the world.

727
01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:09,720
I've been on vacation you know I was in Europe recently and like I said you can go to any

728
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:14,080
major city and you can eat vegan and find it.

729
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:19,760
It's accessible there you know you might have to do a little bit of looking but it's not

730
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:23,920
as difficult as people think it is.

731
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:33,440
And you know you're not supporting this industry that is unnecessarily killing and torturing

732
01:16:33,440 --> 01:16:37,360
animals essentially.

733
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:42,360
No I definitely encourage people to give it a try.

734
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:49,520
I completely agree give it a try and you know there are more advantages than some some vegan

735
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:51,280
talk about health benefits.

736
01:16:51,280 --> 01:17:00,240
I'm not into that whole you know health stuff but in terms of just having a clear conscience

737
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:10,720
and maybe even in a spiritual way it feels good to do this to know that just by being

738
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:17,920
vegan you're doing something positive on this earth and you're doing something good.

739
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:23,440
Yeah it's a great feeling truly a great feeling.

740
01:17:23,440 --> 01:17:31,440
And if you try it and you make a mistake don't get discouraged you know it's you know sometimes

741
01:17:31,440 --> 01:17:39,560
I find out the other day like there's a lot of toilet paper that apparently uses gelatin.

742
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:43,360
You're gonna you're gonna run into those type of issues.

743
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:47,440
It's very frustrating but it makes you but it makes you more aware of what you're consuming

744
01:17:47,440 --> 01:17:55,720
in general and you do you do very you do feel better about what it is you know and you know

745
01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:58,080
just make sure you vary your diet.

746
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:02,600
Don't just eat Oreos and bananas the whole time you know actually mix it up and you're

747
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:06,320
gonna you're gonna find that the vegan food is a lot better than people give it credit

748
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:07,320
for.

749
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:11,120
There's a lot of people like oh that's nasty and bland it's like no I've actually like

750
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:17,360
really opened up my experience with food because I'm willing to step out and try new things.

751
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:23,680
Yeah people can message me I will send them some recipes.

752
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:30,400
It would be my pleasure and yes here again I agree with you there this is don't be dogmatic.

753
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:36,600
I mean even if you reduce your consumption of meat you're making a difference.

754
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:39,840
So yeah think about what you can do.

755
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:46,740
So again thank you very much Colin for having answered my question and having been a guest

756
01:18:46,740 --> 01:18:48,760
on this podcast.

757
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:55,640
Thank you I appreciate it perfect timing I'm at 3% battery on my laptop perfect timing.

758
01:18:55,640 --> 01:18:57,480
Thank you everyone for listening.

759
01:18:57,480 --> 01:19:03,760
I hope that Colin's journey from working for the animal industry to becoming vegan has

760
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:05,520
inspired you.

761
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:10,640
Please share this conversation with family and friends and raise awareness on this damaging

762
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:11,640
industry.

763
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:18,440
I think you are going to be excited for next week's episode I'm going to launch an ongoing

764
01:19:18,440 --> 01:19:24,840
series on this podcast called Vegan Veterans where you will hear me talk with ordinary

765
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:31,460
people who have been vegan for a long time starting with Justin who discovered veganism

766
01:19:31,460 --> 01:19:36,600
through the punk rock scene and became vegan during the 1990s.

767
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:43,240
I want to understand what makes someone adopt and sustain such radical changes in their

768
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:51,540
life and why so many vegans stop being vegan only after a few months.

769
01:19:51,540 --> 01:19:56,800
If you like this podcast take the time to leave a good review I'm also on Instagram

770
01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:01,600
if you want to reach out at veganreportpodcast.

771
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:06,960
Thank you again for listening take care and see you next week.