1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,200 This is Retro Sports Radio. 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,600 Visit RetroSeasons.com for more sports history. 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,280 Okay, you get to Brooklyn, you're replacing Red Barber, a legend as well there with the 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:12,280 Dodgers. 5 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:13,920 And what about your first broadcast? 6 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,520 Well, the first broadcast was postponed by rain. 7 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:23,360 I got up there and they put me up at the Bosset Hotel on Montague Street in Brooklyn. 8 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:28,620 And I didn't know anybody in town, so I've got to wait for the game that night. 9 00:00:28,620 --> 00:00:32,440 And doggone if it didn't rain it out, and I don't have anything to do until the next 10 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:33,440 night. 11 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,800 You know, I'm going bananas in this hotel room where I don't know anybody. 12 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:41,640 Well finally, the next day comes and in the late afternoon I get a subway out to Abbot's 13 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:42,640 Field. 14 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:47,080 I really didn't know how to get there, but I got there and I wandered into the ballpark. 15 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,480 I don't know anybody really and I haven't had spring training or anything. 16 00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:52,520 I'm coming in absolutely cold. 17 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,360 The first people I saw were a couple of players from the Southern League, Paul Minner and 18 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:57,360 Russ Meyer. 19 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,040 They said hello, you know, and that made me feel a little bit better. 20 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:04,400 And then the Dodger players were very, very warm and cordial and friendly to me because 21 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:09,760 they knew I was coming into an unusual kind of a situation, replacing Red and just coming 22 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:10,760 in absolutely cold. 23 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,640 And they couldn't have been more hospitable. 24 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:13,760 They were great. 25 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:18,160 And I went up to the booth and worked with Connie Desmond, who was a terrific announcer. 26 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:23,340 He'd been Red's partner for several years, had a great voice and just a great guy. 27 00:01:23,340 --> 00:01:26,400 And he was very warm and cordial to me too. 28 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:31,880 And in the first inning, Jackie Robinson steals home on a pitch by Muck Meyer. 29 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:36,000 And it's a very close play at the plate and he's called safe. 30 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:41,040 And Muck Meyer is sort of a very eccentric guy, probably best known for the fact that 31 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:45,920 some girl in the bar bit off his nose one time, the end of his nose. 32 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:51,560 But Muck goes bananas, you know, when Jackie Robinson's called safe at the plate and he 33 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:52,560 gets profane. 34 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,200 He gets obscene. 35 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,840 He begins to shout and rage and his words go over our broadcast. 36 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:03,560 The very first game I'm on and they're all over the broadcast and Meyer gets tossed out 37 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:08,820 of the game, which is very unusual for starting pitcher in the first inning to get ejected. 38 00:02:08,820 --> 00:02:11,240 But the umpire tosses him out of the game. 39 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,200 He's fired and suspended. 40 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:14,880 And Jackie Robinson steals home. 41 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,640 The Dodgers finally win the game. 42 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:22,160 And that was my debut with the Brooklyn Dodgers. 43 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:23,160 That is almost. 44 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:28,320 I mean, the fact that your microphones would pick up a player on the field. 45 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,920 Well, what they did then they had what they call the parabolic microphones. 46 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:36,720 They'd have these mics that would have a little cone around them, you know, a little circle 47 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,320 around them and they direct them right to home plate. 48 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,400 So they could hear the crack of the bat and the pop of the mitt and so forth. 49 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,480 And it just happened they were on and I guess they should have cut them off at that time, 50 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,980 but nobody thought about that. 51 00:02:48,980 --> 00:02:50,640 And there was no five second delay. 52 00:02:50,640 --> 00:02:54,040 No, no delays in those days. 53 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:55,040 All right. 54 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:59,760 This stat with Brooklyn, you're there for a couple of weeks replacing Red. 55 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:01,080 What happens when he comes back? 56 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,120 He came back a little sooner than most people anticipated. 57 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,640 He was still very weak when he came back. 58 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:10,920 In fact, all the rest of the time I worked with him, his voice was weak and the engineers 59 00:03:10,920 --> 00:03:14,960 had to put up again so he could project over the microphone. 60 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,000 But Red came back on a game at the Polo grounds. 61 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,040 The Dodgers were in to face their hated rivals. 62 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,960 The New York Giants, it was sort of a murky halfway rainy day. 63 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,120 It was a night game and it was Red's first time back. 64 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,800 So Connie Desmond and I both worked with Red that first game back. 65 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:39,360 And the Giants get a man on first and third with one out in the first inning. 66 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,400 It looks like Rex Barney is going to have a hard time. 67 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,400 You know, he was a very wild pitcher. 68 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,680 Dick Young once said Rex Barney would be in the Hall of Fame if the plate was high and 69 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:49,680 outside. 70 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,600 That's how wild he was. 71 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:52,600 He couldn't get the ball over. 72 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,400 He had a great arm. 73 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,600 And they were warming up a guy in the bullpen. 74 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,640 Well, the upshot is that Rex Barney pitches a no hitter. 75 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,160 So it was pretty much of a big occasion for me. 76 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:04,160 Absolutely. 77 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,520 Now, you mentioned Jackie Robinson. 78 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,520 Everybody has an opinion when that name is brought up. 79 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,440 What's the first thing you think of when I say Jackie Robinson? 80 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:17,880 The first thing I think of is a great player who broke the color line in the major leagues, 81 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,240 the most important event that's ever happened in sports history. 82 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:28,880 I think about a guy who had a wonderful personality, who was very intelligent ahead of everybody 83 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:33,360 else and made the very most of the ability that he had. 84 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:38,560 He was probably a lot better football, basketball, track star than he was a baseball player, 85 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,840 but he applied himself so much. 86 00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:46,680 He had terrific drive, terrific ambition, and he was the most exciting player that I 87 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:47,960 think ever saw. 88 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,680 Speed, yes, but blinding speed, no. 89 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,360 But he had that certain knack. 90 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:53,800 He had the moves. 91 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,080 He knew when things were going to happen. 92 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:57,080 He did have that sense. 93 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:02,440 And he danced off the base and he would force the opposition into some kind of error. 94 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,760 They'd get him in a rundown and he'd generally be able to get out of it most of the time 95 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:11,360 because in the haste, the second baseman would shut up and throw the ball away and he'd go 96 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,680 onto the next base and be safe. 97 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,280 And he was a great exponent of the steel of home. 98 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:17,280 He could do that. 99 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:19,520 He had sort of an awkward swing. 100 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:24,200 He looked like he was tied up in his shoulders when he swung, but he could hit with power. 101 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,240 And he made some great clutch plays in the field. 102 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,760 He wasn't a great fielder, but he always came up with a big play. 103 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:37,240 So much has been written and recorded about Jackie and his trials and tribulations being 104 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,160 accepted number one by the Brooklyn Dodgers as a team. 105 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:45,040 And that wasn't the most popular move that Branch Rickey ever made. 106 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,880 How did the team react to Jackie as you saw it? 107 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:53,820 Well, the team reacted with mixed feelings at the beginning, but I think Jackie won just 108 00:05:53,820 --> 00:05:55,620 about everybody over. 109 00:05:55,620 --> 00:06:00,920 I went there in his second year of his breaking the color line and it was still a problem. 110 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:06,560 He was still getting abused by the fans, getting abused by the opposing players. 111 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,640 I think most of the players on his own team had come around by then. 112 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,720 In the early going, some of the players had said that they didn't want to play for the 113 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:16,720 Dodgers. 114 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:17,720 They wanted to be traded. 115 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,020 Branch Rickey traded several of them, mostly the Pittsburgh. 116 00:06:21,020 --> 00:06:26,820 But by the time Jackie had proved that he was a great team man and a great team leader, 117 00:06:26,820 --> 00:06:30,640 I think everybody had come around to support his cause. 118 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,280 There might've been a few recalcitrant players, but if they were, they kept their mouth shut 119 00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:36,720 and I didn't know about it. 120 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:42,040 Well, Robinson was subjected to a lot of insults and a lot of other things during his entire 121 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,440 career, but it was especially bad in the early going. 122 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,280 And there was one incident in 1949, right after spring training, the Dodgers are headed 123 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:53,280 back north to start the season and they stop in Atlanta for a three game exhibition set 124 00:06:53,280 --> 00:06:54,760 with the Atlanta Crackers. 125 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,720 And there was a very ugly scene involving the Ku Klux Klan there, wasn't there? 126 00:06:58,720 --> 00:06:59,720 That's right, Bob. 127 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,600 It was quite intimidating. 128 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:07,320 The grand dragon of the KKK, Dr. Green, had called Earl Mann, the owner of the Atlanta 129 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,840 Crackers and said, I'm sending you a letter about this subject, but I want you to know 130 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:17,600 that if Jackie Robinson plays at Ponce de Leon Park during this series, he'll be shot 131 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,560 by the KKK. 132 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,800 And Earl Mann said, go to hell. 133 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:26,900 And then he called the police chief, Herbert Jenkins, and reported to him. 134 00:07:26,900 --> 00:07:29,960 And they decided to go on with a three game series. 135 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:35,400 Well, the Dodgers got to Atlanta for the first game and Bert Schotten is the manager and 136 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:40,280 he reads the letter to his players and he says, you're going to take the field and you're 137 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:41,920 going to play. 138 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,000 After the threat, they needed a little comic relief. 139 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:50,720 Gene Hermansky, the good-humored outfielder said, why don't we all wear number 42, Jackie's 140 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:55,560 number and then they won't know which guy to shoot. 141 00:07:55,560 --> 00:08:00,320 And when they got on the field, Pee Wee Reese, his Keystone partner told her, Jackie said, 142 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,120 move over a little to your right, Jackie. 143 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:07,000 This guy might be a bad shot and I don't want to get hit. 144 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,440 But it was a big cause, so never there in Atlanta. 145 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:15,680 And it made an impact on me because I was going back to my hometown and broadcasting 146 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,240 for the Brooklyn Dodgers and I was sort of in the middle of it. 147 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,960 But it went off without any untoward incident at all. 148 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,680 And they had a capacity crowd every one of the games. 149 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:33,120 And on the final game, they had a record crowd of 25,221. 150 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,560 Jackie Robinson played and he was not shot by the KKK. 151 00:08:37,560 --> 00:08:41,440 I can still remember seeing that picture of Jackie crossing home plate after hitting a 152 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:42,820 home run. 153 00:08:42,820 --> 00:08:47,840 And there is the captain of the Dodgers with his hand outstretched, shaking Jackie's hand 154 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,600 and slapping him on the back. 155 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,840 Was that the defining moment for Jackie that the white players on the team had accepted 156 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,080 because Pee Wee Reese was their captain? 157 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:57,080 I think so. 158 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,280 I think Pee Wee was admired by everybody and really loved by everybody. 159 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,520 He knew that he was going to be a teammate of Jackie Robinson. 160 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:10,720 He came around and was most cordial and warm to Jackie and they became good friends. 161 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,960 And of course, they were pretty much a Keystone combination there, although Jackie started 162 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,860 out at the first baseman in his first few days with the Dodgers. 163 00:09:18,860 --> 00:09:23,480 But I think the friendship that he made with Pee Wee was sort of a defining moment for 164 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:24,480 Jackie. 165 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,060 Pee Wee wasn't just called the captain. 166 00:09:27,060 --> 00:09:29,520 He was the captain of the Dodgers. 167 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:30,720 It was his team, wasn't it? 168 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:31,720 It was. 169 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:32,720 He was great. 170 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,940 He was a fine fielder, good clutch hitter, great base runner. 171 00:09:35,940 --> 00:09:40,480 He didn't steal a lot of bases because in those times the stolen base wasn't a big factor 172 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:45,040 in baseball, but they very seldom catch him on an attempted steal. 173 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,260 But he could do everything and I think everybody looked up to Pee Wee. 174 00:09:49,260 --> 00:09:53,600 Baseball fans, when the name Jackie is mentioned, when the name Pee Wee is mentioned, they know 175 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:54,940 who you're talking about. 176 00:09:54,940 --> 00:09:58,080 But there are others in those boys of summer. 177 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,860 The Duke, Oisk, Schoonge, Big Nuke. 178 00:10:02,860 --> 00:10:05,960 They did have great players and they got along well. 179 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,040 Billy Cox at third base, a lot of people think that he was even better than Brooks Robinson. 180 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:14,400 He was a little skinny guy, but he'd catch everything, hit down there, had a great arm. 181 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,240 Then you had Reese and Robinson. 182 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,600 Gil Hodges was one of the sweetest guys you ever met. 183 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:24,880 Mile-mannered, but he had wrists as big as most guys' thighs, you know. 184 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:26,920 Caponella was a great catcher. 185 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,000 Could hit the long ball and he had Bruce Edwards behind him. 186 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,200 And then they had Hermanski and Snyder. 187 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:38,120 Carl Ferillo, the Redding rifle in right field, a guy that Ricky bought the whole ball club 188 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,520 at Redding, PA, so he could get Ferillo. 189 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:46,640 And in those days, a minor league franchise wasn't as expensive as it is today. 190 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,480 But the Brooklyn team had a lot of characters on it. 191 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,320 The fans were great. 192 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:56,040 And I was very fortunate to be able to break into the major leagues at Brooklyn. 193 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:00,680 I couldn't believe how nice they were to me, the fans and the listeners, because I had 194 00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:05,040 come up under tough circumstances and I think they realized that and they were great to 195 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:06,320 me. 196 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:11,520 As you saw Robinson's perception, was it different from the media than it was from 197 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,200 the teammates and the Brooklyn fans? 198 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,480 I think the media was pretty good with Jackie. 199 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,520 I think they might have been hard on him every now and then in New York because the New York 200 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,760 writers more or less called it as it was. 201 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:24,760 But they were fair to Jackie, I think. 202 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:30,200 And in those days, you had more of a fraternal feeling between the media and the team. 203 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:35,840 Guys played cards together on the train and you ate together in the dining room and you 204 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:41,640 didn't have the gap that you have now between the media and the players where they're pretty 205 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:43,740 well separated all the time. 206 00:11:43,740 --> 00:11:49,240 So it was more of a feeling of friendship in the traveling group than we have today. 207 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:50,780 Tell me about the train rides. 208 00:11:50,780 --> 00:11:51,780 Train ride was great. 209 00:11:51,780 --> 00:11:54,520 You know, they were a lot longer in a way. 210 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,880 It was better to go on the plane and get there right after the game. 211 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:03,920 But generally speaking, you'd have a day game in a certain city and go out and eat dinner 212 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:09,280 somewhere with some of the players and to get on the train around 10, 30, 11. 213 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,640 Most of the time we would have an overnight trip and get up the next day. 214 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:18,080 Sometimes have breakfast on the train, sometimes get off and go to the hotel immediately and 215 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,680 have breakfast there and then take a little rest and go to the ballpark. 216 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:24,600 And the long trips would be Boston to St. Louis. 217 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,760 That would take you a day and a half. 218 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,080 Generally the trips were fairly short and enjoyable and a lot of card playing, a lot 219 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,840 of sitting in the observation car and just talking about baseball and whatever came to 220 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,040 mind. 221 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:43,080 And the guys seemed to have a lot better feeling about the media, as I said, than they do now. 222 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,840 Who was the best hearts player on the team? 223 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:46,840 Peewee was really good. 224 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,600 I played with him a lot and I played with Jackie a lot. 225 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,040 And Cappy, I played with him a good bit too. 226 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,040 You sort of divided up as you play. 227 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,480 Different guys played with different people and it just happened that way. 228 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,160 The Greek ball club had sort of a different card game. 229 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:06,240 It was blackjack when I went to the Giants, but it was hearts when I was with the Dodgers. 230 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,880 But it was fun and we didn't play for much money. 231 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:15,080 You know, if you lost 10 or 15 dollars, you thought it was pretty much of a disaster. 232 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:16,720 What made the boys of summer special? 233 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,120 Well, I think the boys of summer were special. 234 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:24,820 Number one, they had great ability and number two, you had some wonderful personalities 235 00:13:24,820 --> 00:13:30,960 on the team, plus the fact that they were the underdogs all the time and most of America 236 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:32,960 roots for the underdogs. 237 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,600 And either the Yankees or the Giants were their hated rivals. 238 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:41,320 And you had a situation in New York where there were three great baseball teams. 239 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:46,000 And I think for a span of 10 years, somebody pointed out that at least one of the teams 240 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,440 was in a World Series just about every year, except maybe one. 241 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,680 Usually it was the Yankees. 242 00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:52,840 Sometimes the Giants would make it. 243 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,240 The Dodgers would make it more than Giants would. 244 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:59,980 But somebody would be there and the rivalry between the Giants and the Dodgers was so 245 00:13:59,980 --> 00:14:05,400 intense that it spilled over from year to year, no matter what the personnel was. 246 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,800 And when you'd go to the polo grounds, that would be about the only time the Giants would 247 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:10,800 draw a crowd. 248 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,240 They'd draw six or seven hundred thousand for the year and about two thirds of that 249 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,160 would be when they played the Dodgers. 250 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:17,380 All right. 251 00:14:17,380 --> 00:14:20,600 You had the Yankees, the Dodgers and the Giants. 252 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:26,600 What was that like to have three of the premier franchises in baseball all located in that 253 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:27,600 close proximity? 254 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,760 Well, it was fantastic for the fans. 255 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:34,600 And from an announcer standpoint, it was a great learning process because when you announced 256 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:39,280 for the Dodgers, the Giants fans would tune in and they hated the Dodgers and the Yankee 257 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,000 fans would tune in and they hated the Dodgers. 258 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:47,280 So you had to talk to one group that liked you and the other group that wanted you to 259 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:48,280 lose. 260 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,920 So you had to pretty much be down the middle, I'd say. 261 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,120 That's the way most of us played it. 262 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,480 You mentioned being down the middle. 263 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,960 When you were in Atlanta doing play by play, were you down the middle pretty much or were 264 00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:59,400 you a cracker fan on the air? 265 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,880 I was down the middle even from the beginning. 266 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,160 I felt like I had to make up my mind one way or the other. 267 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,860 You can either root for the team on the air or you don't. 268 00:15:08,860 --> 00:15:12,800 And it was my choice, whether right or wrong, to not root for the team. 269 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:18,480 I felt like that was a prerogative of the fan and let him have it and not say we or 270 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,560 we've got to go or come on guys, let's get some runs. 271 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:27,160 And I felt like I just wanted to be a reporter most of all and let the chips fall where they 272 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:28,720 may. 273 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:33,960 Jackie broke the color barrier, but very quickly there was an influx, especially on the Dodgers, 274 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,760 not only with Campanella, but with Don Newcomb, with Joe Black and later on Junior Gillian, 275 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:39,820 Sandy Amorus. 276 00:15:39,820 --> 00:15:41,340 The list goes on. 277 00:15:41,340 --> 00:15:44,600 Was it easier for those guys that followed Jackie? 278 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:49,680 Once Jackie had broken the color line, it was a much easier trip for everybody. 279 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:54,360 But Jackie was a pioneer and a lot of credit is due to him and of course Branch Rickey 280 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,760 who conceived the idea and along with Jackie made it happen. 281 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:03,540 The old story about Jackie going to Branch Rickey when they first signed is absolutely 282 00:16:03,540 --> 00:16:07,480 true because Branch said you've got to be able to turn the other cheek to make this 283 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,240 experiment a success. 284 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,240 And Jackie said you mean you want a guy without guts enough to fight back? 285 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,560 And he said no, I want a guy with guts enough not to fight back. 286 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:21,000 You've got to swallow your pride a little bit and make it a success by holding off. 287 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,880 And for two years, Jackie followed that regimen. 288 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,220 He held his temper and he did have a tough temper. 289 00:16:27,220 --> 00:16:31,320 And I remember when he finally broke loose, it was a game in Pittsburgh at Forbes Field. 290 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:36,640 He blew his stack about a call and from then on he was just a guy playing baseball. 291 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:44,360 He was carrying this load for 17 million people and that he had to come under, come to tall 292 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:49,880 we call it, act thus and so, turn the other cheek was the thing that we discussed at that 293 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,120 first meeting of length. 294 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:57,960 You mentioned Roy Campanella, a great talent whose career and ultimately life was cut way 295 00:16:57,960 --> 00:16:58,960 too short. 296 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,560 Well, Roy was a happy-go-lucky guy. 297 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,080 Jackie Robinson was pretty serious, you know. 298 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,320 Jackie had a cause and he stuck with it. 299 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,640 Roy was just sort of a laissez-faire, whatever happens, don't worry about it. 300 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:15,920 I'm going to go out there and do my best and get my base hit, throw a guy out at second. 301 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,280 Great guy to be around and always had a big smile. 302 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:20,760 He was a smart baseball man. 303 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,360 He'd grown up in the Negro leagues. 304 00:17:22,360 --> 00:17:26,960 He'd caught when he was 14 or 15 years old, caught double-headers in those leagues and 305 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:33,520 he had a tragic end when he skidded on the freeway outside of New York City and was paralyzed. 306 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,240 Lived a very tough life from then on. 307 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,720 He was on our veterans committee later and it was so sad. 308 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:43,040 He was in a wheelchair all the time and he could communicate, but it was tough for him 309 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,920 and he wasn't the same old Roy that we knew when he was catching. 310 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,040 I mentioned Don Newcomb, big, tall, strong, hard-thrower. 311 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,520 What was he like? 312 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:54,520 I liked Don. 313 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:55,520 He was a good guy. 314 00:17:55,520 --> 00:18:00,120 He had an alcoholic problem later on, something I certainly didn't know about in my early 315 00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:02,360 days because he came up my second year. 316 00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:06,320 They had a great year in 49 and pitched them to the pennant. 317 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:07,720 He could throw the ball hard. 318 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:12,280 He was a great fastball pitcher and he was such a big, strong-looking guy. 319 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:13,840 He was intimidating on the mound. 320 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,360 I think that was part of his success. 321 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:20,660 Guys didn't want to dig in at the plate against the old Newk and his caponella used to say 322 00:18:20,660 --> 00:18:25,380 he could really throw that express at his fastball. 323 00:18:25,380 --> 00:18:30,560 One of the most special guys of that group is the Duke of Flatbush, Duke Snyder. 324 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,020 The Duke was quite a player. 325 00:18:32,020 --> 00:18:36,060 When he first came up, he was a left-hand hitter, so he got to see a lot of right-handers 326 00:18:36,060 --> 00:18:38,320 at Ebbets Field, which was good. 327 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:43,200 He struck out a lot at first, but he really found himself and made himself a great outfielder. 328 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,480 He was a terrific fielder and a good hitter. 329 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,300 He could hit the long ball. 330 00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:52,840 He was a great clutch hitter, very personable, and a really top-notch person. 331 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,760 Layler made quite a career out of broadcasting. 332 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:01,080 I was very proud of the Duke, the way he adjusted to broadcasting after he got through a great 333 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:02,080 baseball career. 334 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,080 Why did the Dodgers win only one world championship in Brooklyn? 335 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:07,080 I don't know. 336 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,240 A lot of guys in Brooklyn have asked that for years, and I sure don't know the answer. 337 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:16,320 I think we could say one word, the Yankees, maybe. 338 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:24,280 Brooklyn was a special place to live, to be a fan in, and to go to the ballpark at, because 339 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:30,120 not only was it an unusual ballpark, but it had its cast of characters, shall we say, 340 00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:32,440 led by one Miss Hilda Chester? 341 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:33,840 Oh, Hilda, yeah. 342 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,960 Hilda was a great gal. 343 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,240 She worked for H.M. Stevens, which was a concessionaire. 344 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:45,800 She was a filler of peanut bags, but she was a great Dodger fan, and she loved Leo DeRosia. 345 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,720 Anything that Leo did was all right with her, and she had this cowbell. 346 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,800 That was her trademark. 347 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,120 When the Dodgers did something, even if they didn't, she'd be ringing the cowbell, and 348 00:19:56,120 --> 00:20:01,720 it almost killed her when Leo left the Dodgers and went across the river to the hated Giants 349 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,640 and became the manager of the New York Giants. 350 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:11,200 But we also had the Brooklyn Symphony, led by Shorty Larice, and the Symphony was three 351 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,800 or four guys who thought they could play instruments. 352 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,520 I think you had a drum and a trumpet and a couple other things. 353 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:18,840 They were at every game. 354 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:19,840 They made a lot of noise. 355 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,760 It wasn't too musical most of the time, but when an opposing batter, for instance, would 356 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:29,200 strike out, they would give him a little musical accompaniment back to the bench. 357 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,280 Bump, da bump, bump, da bump, you know, that little tune. 358 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,800 And when he sat down, they'd say, boom. 359 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,960 And the opposing player sometimes would try to fool him with a fake sit down, you know, 360 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,400 where they'd play the music and he wouldn't sit down. 361 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,100 And it was a lot of fun for everybody. 362 00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:48,300 And they had a PA announcer named Tex Rickard, same name as the old boxing promoter. 363 00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:54,480 And Tex, on the hottest day in Brooklyn, he had this heavy white sweater with Brooklyn 364 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:58,920 Dodgers in blue letters across it, the Brooklyn script. 365 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:04,760 And every time a guy hit a home run, Tex would run out at home plate and shake his hand. 366 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,360 And you'd see the back page of the Daily News in the mirror. 367 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:11,280 They'd have Hodges crossing the plate and Tex Rickard is in every picture. 368 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,440 And we had a deal at Ebbets Field. 369 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,560 When a guy hit a home run, he got a carton of old goals. 370 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:22,420 He did a home run and one of the announcers would put the carton of old goals on the screen 371 00:21:22,420 --> 00:21:24,800 back of the plate and roll it down. 372 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:30,680 Tex Rickard would grab it, take it and give it to the hitter. 373 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,440 Another old goal. 374 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,800 You know, that was pretty minor league, but it went over in Brooklyn. 375 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:37,800 It worked. 376 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,200 As far as they would say in Brooklyn, it worked. 377 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,240 Yeah, it worked. 378 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:47,640 One target that the symphony really loved was during the World Series when Casey Stingle 379 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,760 would head the mound to talk to a pitcher. 380 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,360 Oh yeah, they loved Casey because he was such a character, you know. 381 00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:54,880 Casey should have been an actor really. 382 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,160 He should have been on Broadway. 383 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:01,280 He was just a natural and I guess whatever he did, the symphony would love it. 384 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,040 You finished in Brooklyn. 385 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:08,240 You go, as did Leo, across the river to the polo grounds. 386 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,240 Why? 387 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:14,140 I went to the Giants because, number one, they were going to pay me more money. 388 00:22:14,140 --> 00:22:18,140 And number two, instead of working with two other guys in the booth, I worked with only 389 00:22:18,140 --> 00:22:19,240 one. 390 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:25,480 And the Giants had come to me the year before, even in 1948 after my first time with Brooklyn. 391 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,080 They wanted me to come and I felt like I hadn't been there long enough. 392 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,380 I didn't want to move. 393 00:22:29,380 --> 00:22:34,760 And this time I decided I'd go to the polo grounds and work for the New York Giants. 394 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:40,520 Well, Ernie Hilda Chester was crushed when Leo DeRoscher left the Bums for the hated 395 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:47,040 Giants and then at the end of the season she gets slammed again because Ernie crosses over 396 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:48,040 to the polo grounds. 397 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,720 Now, which hurt her the most, Ernie? 398 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,360 You leaving or DeRoscher? 399 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:54,200 I don't think there's any doubt about that. 400 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,080 It was Leo the Lip that caused all the hurt. 401 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,400 I don't think Hilda cared one way or the other whether I left or not. 402 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:24,360 But anyway, I did leave and I went to the Giants.