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This is Retro Sports Radio. Visit RetroSeasons.com for more sports history.

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1951 was a magical year for the Giants. First of all, you've got a young outfielder who has a pretty decent reputation coming in as a rookie, a 19-year-old named Willie Mays.

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What did you think when you first saw him?

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I thought, about like everybody else did, that he was a guy that's a great prospect. I hadn't seen him until he reported for duty on May 25, 1951.

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And they brought him up from Minneapolis, which was in the American Association. Willie was batting 477 at the time.

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And they brought him down, they went through New York, and they brought him down to Shia Park in Philadelphia where the Giants were playing.

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And the first time I saw him was in batting practice. He had half a dozen balls or maybe a dozen in the seats.

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And everybody that saw him was pretty wild-eyed, and we figured, here's a guy that's going to be an okay prospect.

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But he had a little trouble at first. He went one for the first 26 times at bat. And Willie was very discouraged, got back to the polar grounds.

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He'd hit that one hit, it was a home run off Warrens Pond in New York, but he still felt down on himself.

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And he went into the manager's office and talked to Leo DeRoscia, and Willie was crying. He said, Leo, you've got to send me back. I just can't play here in the big leagues. I'm not that good.

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And DeRoscia said, now look, Willie, as long as I've got New York across my uniform, you're going to be my center fielder.

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So just go out there and play your game and relax, and you'll be okay. So that's what he did.

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And of course, he had a rather slow start, but he picked it up and became the Rookie of the Year and did some pretty good contributing to the Giants' drive to the pennant.

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And then later on became one of the great players of all time.

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Now, that talk by Leo was not quite the same kind of talk that you had with Leo on the train sometime before that, was it?

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What happened was we were coming back from Chicago on the Pullman, and we'd gotten up and had breakfast coming into New York.

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And I was in my partner Russ Hodges' compartment reading the paper.

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And Leo came in, saw the blustery, and he went over to where I was reading the paper, and he slapped the paper right back in my face.

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And normally I'm pretty mild and can take almost anything.

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And in the case of Leo, though, I knew that he always had to have a stooge.

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And once you got in his stooge, you're casting, you were in trouble.

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So I grabbed him and we began to wrestle and huff and puff.

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And finally, I think inertia set in and we both had to quit. And we were good friends.

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I enjoyed being with Leo, played a lot of golf with him, went to parties with him.

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He was an amazing personality and a very good friend of mine.

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But it was sort of a little funny incident that I had a fight with Leo DeRosia.

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All right. The 51 Giants, even with Willie Mays working himself into the lineup and becoming more comfortable,

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and guys like Whitey Lockman and Don Mueller, they fell behind.

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And I believe as late as August the 12th, they were 13 and a half games out of first place.

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What happened in that last two weeks?

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In the last part of the season, after being back 13 and a half, the Giants just began to win.

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They were very relaxed. I don't think they felt that they were in the pennant race.

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I don't think they felt they had a chance.

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I know on the last Western trip, everybody was loose.

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We were playing golf most of the time. If we had a few spare hours, we'd go out and go to the golf course.

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The New York papers, as I remember, I don't think they even sent beat reporters on the trip with us.

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They were just covered by AP. You might have a column written once in a while.

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But they began to win. They began to build confidence in themselves.

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But they still didn't feel that they were in the pennant race until just about the last week of the race in 1951,

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when they were then three or four games back.

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And all of a sudden, the Dodgers began to lose, and the Giants caught them.

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They finally tied them. After the Dodger lost to Philadelphia and Philadelphia on Friday night, the pennant race was tied.

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Then each team won on Saturday, and each team won on Sunday.

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The Dodgers finished on Sunday after the Giants did. The Giants had beaten the Boston Braves.

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And I remember we were in the clubhouse listening to the game on the radio from Philadelphia.

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And the Phillies had a pretty good lead.

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We thought it was about over that the Phillies were going to beat the Dodgers, and the Giants would win the pennant.

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But after we got on the train, we got down to about Providence, and Chubb Feeney, the vice president of the Giants,

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got off and went into the station there and found out that the Dodgers had rallied and beaten the Phillies.

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And he came back on the train and said, all right, guys, you've got to report to Ebbets Field tomorrow.

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We're going to have a three-game playoff.

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Now, the Dodgers didn't feel like the Giants really made an honest comeback to cut that 13 and a half game lead down to a tie.

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Wasn't there some accusations of sign stealing that helped them, maybe somebody in the school board?

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Well, there was a mention of sign stealing, but I really think that came out a good bit later on.

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At the time the games were being played, I don't think that was a factor.

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There had always been a talk about sign stealing at the Polar Grounds and also at Olkomisky Park

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and some of the other parks around the major leagues.

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And I think some of it was partially true.

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But I don't think it was a factor at that time.

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It was later on when a Wall Street Journal reporter came up with ex post facto news that there had been sign stealing in that series.

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All right. The Dodger-Giant rivalry, was it a feud?

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Or was it just the fact that everybody was so enamored with their team and so wrapped up in what their team was doing

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that they just didn't want anybody else to beat them and the Giants just happened to be the closest?

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No, I think it was a feud.

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I think there was an absolute hatred between those two organizations because they competed for attention

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and for money in the same area for one thing.

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There had always been animosity between those two teams.

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I know it went way back into the 30s and maybe even farther back than that.

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But there was a lot of hatred between the players and it didn't matter what year it was or what the personnel was on each team.

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There was always that feuding atmosphere between the two clubs.

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OK, the Dodgers get that coin toss.

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They take game one at Ebbets, but they lose game one.

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Had the strategy by Dressen backfired because he wanted to get a one game lead

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and then hope to win one out of the two and take the three game series.

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Well, I think it backfired because then you went back to the Polar Grounds

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and the Giants were then with their home field advantage for the next two games.

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They had to split those two games if they were going to win it.

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But Labine was very effective for the Dodgers in the second game and the blanks, the Giants, 10 to nothing.

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And that set up the third and final game.

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So on October the third, the next day, everything was going to ride on that one game.

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The whole pennant race and the championship and the right to play the Yankees in the 1951 World Series.

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Well, Ernie, everybody remembers Bobby Thompson hitting the home run.

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But what a lot of people don't remember about that game was he possibly could have been a goat.

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He was a while on his way to being the goat of that big game.

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He had misplayed a couple of ground balls at third base.

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And as a base runner, he'd gotten the base hit.

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And then running to second base, he ran up the back of his teammate, Whitey Lockman.

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And the Giants ended up with two guys at second base.

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And eventually Bobby Thompson was caught in a rundown and tagged out.

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So I say you're right. He was ready for the fitting of the Goathorns.

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All right. We're going into the ninth inning.

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Don Newcomb, who has just had a fantastic three games because he has pitched something like 33 innings in four days.

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And takes a four to one lead into the ninth inning.

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And everybody thinks the game's over.

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Well, I was one of those guys who thought the game was over, Bob.

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It looked like the way Newcomb was throwing that the Giants couldn't touch him.

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And I believe most all Giants fans were ready to say, let's get ready to go home.

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Well, Ernie, after you tied up your duties with TV, you hussled down to the locker room where you had a chance to interview some of the players from both the Giants and the Dodgers.

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And now, ladies and gentlemen, my partner just got here, Ernie Harwell.

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Ernie, grab a microphone and I'll try to round you up some guys.

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All right. Fine, Ross. It's wonderful, folks.

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We had a madhouse here and all the ballplayers now on the Giants are being taken out on the steps.

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Well, there's a tremendous crowd out there that's given them every cheer that their royal winners deserve.

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They certainly came behind and did a tremendous job today, a job that has never been duplicated in baseball history.

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And the clubhouse is not a clubhouse, but a madhouse.

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Everybody moving around and yapping and talking and jabbering and newspaper men and photographers and newsreel men.

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Everybody in the sports world here and all amazed by this tremendous last minute finish by the New York Giants.

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There's been nothing like it in baseball history.

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Bobby Thompson, the hero with his big home run that won the Giants game, is out on the front steps.

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Well, here's Ernie Harwell with one of the great guys from the game today, Duke Snider.

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That's right, Ross. Duke Snider here. He's come over to congratulate the Giants players on their victory.

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Duke, you played on a great ball club this year and you made a great drive for the pennant and it was just too bad.

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Looks like the Giants had it there in that last inning.

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Yes, Ernie, I feel very bad about it. I wish all the Giants good luck in beating the Yankees, but I'll still...my heart's in Brooklyn.

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Well, naturally, we expect it to be, Duke, and best of luck to you and the Dodgers next year.

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Thank you.

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Thanks for dropping in. It's very nice of you to come over and to say hello to these Giants and congratulate them on their victory in 1951.

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We just heard from Duke Snider, the fine Brooklyn outfielder, as he came over to talk to the Giants and congratulate them.

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Many of the Dodgers have come in. Jackie Robinson was here, Snider, and many others.

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Here's Roy Campanella with Ernie Harwell.

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Hi, Ernie. How's everything?

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Hello, Roy.

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Wasn't that a tough one?

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It was a tough ball game for the Dodgers.

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Well, I wish you the best of luck anyhow.

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Well, thanks a lot, Roy.

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Somebody has to win, somebody's got to win.

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Too bad, Roy, you couldn't have been in there swinging that big club. I know how you feel about that.

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Well, it's one of those things I wanted to play, but I couldn't run, so I couldn't help them any.

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Well, good luck to you in that new Empora of yours with 134-6-7.

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Well, I still want the Giants to win the series anyhow.

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I know how you feel.

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Thank you, Roy. Thanks for dropping in.

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And Russ Hodges is coming over with one of the winning players of 1951, Willie Maeve.

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Well, Willie, what's your reaction to all this excitement?

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Well, I tell you, I'm one of the happy boys in my life because I'm a young boy, true enough, but it's one of the happy moments of my life to be here playing with the Giants for this season.

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Next year, I hope we win the same thing, but in the World Series, I think the Yankees will have a hard team to beat.

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Well, we have great pitching.

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And you've got a great ball club all around and a tremendous spirit, Willie.

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That's what I think so, too.

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Well, it's nice to have you here, and best of luck to you in the World Series.

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Thank you.

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Well, you've done a great job for the Giants this year, and just give those Yankees a business, will you?

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We'll do that.

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All right. Thank you, Willie.

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Now, this is Russ Hodges.

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And Ernie Harwell.

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Saying so long, the Giants won the pennant, and we'll be seeing you at the World Series. Goodbye.

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You had the privilege of watching one of the more exciting players of that era in Maze.

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What areas did he improve his game, his abilities and such?

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He was a natural, and I think as he matured, he got better in all departments, but I couldn't say that he improved one any more than another.

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If you'd pick one, it would probably be in power hitting because he grew a little bit, got stronger,

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and got a little experience and knew what pitches were pitching to him.

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But he was so great, he could do everything, and he made the greatest catch I've ever seen in a regular season game.

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You know, we talk about the World Series in 1954, but Willie made a great catch in Pittsburgh in the 1951, his rookie season.

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And they were playing the Pirates, and Rocky Nelson was at bat.

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It was a situation where Willie was in center field, Rocky in a line drive at the left center.

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Willie races over, catches it all with his bare hand in the air, a vicious line drive,

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and he's coming in now, and he knows that his teammates are going to give him all the accolades

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and slap him on the back and tell him how great he is.

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But what he doesn't know as a rookie is that these old timers are going to go silent and not react at all,

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and then they're going to say, let's see what the kids are going to do when we do this.

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So he comes in and he looks over at the dugout, and they are stone cold.

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They're sitting there like statues, not saying a word, and Willie can't comprehend it.

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So he finally goes down to the end of the dugout and looks in and says to his manager, Leo DeRosha,

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and he's got a real high voice, Willie, he says, Leo, Leo, I just made a great catch.

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And DeRosha strokes his chin and looks up and says, Willie, I didn't see it.

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Go out and do it again next inning.

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He did it a lot of times, believe me.

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You made a lot of great catches.

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Of course, the one that was publicized the most was at the World Series Catch in 54,

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but I remember one in Pittsburgh that you caught a line drive, a bare handed, off the bat, I think, of Rocky Nelson.

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As you couldn't get to the ball, you're running toward the left field.

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You remember that?

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That's correct.

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Rocky Nelson was really a poor hitter at that time, and I was shading him around to right,

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and he hit a line drive to left center, but I was running and seemed like the ball just started rising.

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As it was starting to rise, and I don't know why, I just stuck out my hand and just caught the ball in mid-air.

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Now, the only thing that I didn't like about it, when I got back to the dugout, nobody said a word to me.

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Nobody said nothing, and I said to myself, my God, I just made the best play of my life.

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And then Leo started laughing, and that was, to me, that was the best part of the whole catch.

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Catching the ball, going to the dugout, nobody saying nothing to me, and then all of a sudden everybody broke out.

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That's the type of fun we had.

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Who was the best center fielder of them all in New York?

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That was a great topic of conversation around the water cooler.

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Of course, the Giants fans thought Willie Mays was the greatest.

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The Yankee fans both went to Mickey Mantle, and the Dodger fans thought that nobody was any better than Duke Snyder.

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And there were all three great outfielders, and no question about that.

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And my choice was Willie Mays, but I was with the Giants.

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I was prejudiced in that direction, and I think probably I would vote for Mantle, except that he was hurt so much.

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And the wisdom, I think, generally in baseball was if Mickey Mantle had stayed healthy,

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he would have been probably the greatest player of all time because he ran with amazing speed.

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He was a great fielder. He could do everything in the field, and he hit with power from each side of the plate, and you can't do any better than that.

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Willie had a couple of trademarks.

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Number one was the basket catch, catching the ball, a fly ball at the waist.

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Another one was the hat, always flying off when he took off after a ball.

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I've heard the rumor that he always wore a hat that was one size too small so it would come off very quickly when he took off.

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Well, that's what everybody said, Bob. I don't know whether it was true or not, but I guess that's showmanship.

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But he was a great player, and the thing about Willie Mays, not only did he have great natural ability,

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he played with a verve and a spirit that very few other players could ever imagine.

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You got the idea as you sat in the stands and watched Willie Mays perform that here's a kid that loved to play baseball.

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He was doing exactly what he wanted to do and doing it in the very best way possible.

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And say hey, you know, they called him because he was always saying say hey.

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Well, at the end of the 53 season, you had to move on to your third major league team, leaving New York for Baltimore.

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The situation there was the Giants didn't renew my contract, and I got an offer right away from Baltimore to come down there and be the voice of the Orioles.

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And that was a great break for me because Baltimore had not had baseball in the modern era in the big leagues.

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And I was going to be the voice of the birds, and I think it's always a big advantage for an announcer to come in and be the first guy on the scene.

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So I was lucky and Baltimore was a great place to work. The Orioles were a good organization.

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They had a very bad team. The hitting was terrible.

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The leading home run hitter, Vern Stevens, had eight home runs that year.

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Wow.

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So that tells you what kind of power they had.

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Well, you also had a big sponsor who was sponsoring the games there in Baltimore for you. And early in your time in Baltimore, the PR folks wanted you to take some of the executives out and kind of smooth them a little bit.

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Oh, yeah. You ended up in a place that I don't know whether you really wanted to be that night or not.

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I was working for National Bowl. That was a beer that had bought the Oriole rights.

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And we had a sales manager named Norman Albany. And I'd only been in Baltimore about a week, I guess. I was living at the hotel. My family was still in New York.

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They hadn't joined me. And Mr. Albany called me and said to Ernie, I think it'd be a good idea.

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We're going to have a lot of clients and salespeople. And we're going down to the Oasis. And we'd like for you to join us down there.

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Well, the Oasis was on what they call the Baltimore Block.

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So the Baltimore Block had a reputation of being a pretty bad place to frequent.

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But I went down there anyway to the Oasis and they were having their big party and they had these dancers and they had an emcee named Sid Gray.

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And the Oasis was really sort of an upholstered sewer. That was about all it was. And they'd serve you drinks, you know, had 90 percent water in them and charge you 10 bucks, that kind of a place.

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And Sid Gray is a pasty face to emcee. And he's introducing these dancers as beautiful debutantes from Towson, Maryland.

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And the guys are having a pretty good time. And Sid gets in his brain that he should introduce me.

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Now, I've only been there about a week and nobody really knows who I am at all. But he gives me this flower introduction about here's the greatest broadcast of all time, the guy we all listen to.

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And everybody loves here in Baltimore as if they knew who I was. And he said, it's Ernie Harwell. Stand up, Ernie, stand up.

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And I stand up and, you know, they got a little applause there. And I sit down and he says, Ernie, Ernie, stand up again.

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And I stand up again. He said, sit down, you little sown, sown. Nobody wants to see you around here.

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So I figured the second time around, sometimes I'm not too good.

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In addition to doing the Orioles broadcast, you also had a shot at the Baltimore Colts.

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The situation there was when I went to Baltimore, the National Bowl had the Orioles and the Gunther beer had the Colts.

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So if you did football, you can do baseball and vice versa.

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But there was one year when the same beer that I worked for had both the Colts and the Orioles.

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And that was a year that I was able to do the Colt games. And it was right before they ascended into the championship era that they had with Johnny Unitas.

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I remember the first game that I did on the radio for the Colts at Memorial Stadium.

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Alan Amici took the ball from scrimmage on the very first to play from scrimmage and went 78 yards for a touchdown.

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So it was a pretty good season. They had a pretty fair team. And Weeb Eubank was a coach.

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And I became very friendly with Weeb and Lucy Eubank. They were great people.

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And we used to visit with them and they'd come over to our house a lot.

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And I enjoyed that one season I did the Colt games.

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Dupree going out on a short pass to the right, moves up to the 29 yard line and the Colts have a first down.

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Their first down of the second half, they trail 10 to nothing behind the Los Angeles Rams here at the Coliseum before a rain-soaked crowd.

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The Chicago Bears beat the Lions early in the afternoon.

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And the Colts are now a full game back of both of these ball clubs.

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Buddy Young flanks wide to the left. Shaw up under Tetteh, he's got Amici and Dupree behind him.

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The blue-shirted Colts are ready to go. Long count. Here's a handoff. It goes to Dupree.

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He tries to slant off the left tackle and drives to the 31 yard line.

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McFadden made the stop.

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The left tackle on defense of the Los Angeles Rams after Dupree picked up two yards, it'll be second down and eight to go.

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The ball on the 31 yard line.

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Now you mentioned your house there in Baltimore.

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Rather unusual house, very large, very stately. You did quite a bit of entertaining there, didn't you?

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Oh yeah, we had a great time. It was an old house, not more than 10 minutes from the ballpark.

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And it had been a farmhouse actually, but it had about nine rooms and eight bathrooms.

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It was built in 1856. Had a porch all the way around. We loved it. We kept a horse.

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And the kids rode the horse. Milton Eisenhower, the president's brother, lived next door to us.

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And he'd come over and visit with us from time to time.

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And we had a good time. And then when the ball clubs would come in, we'd have crab feast.

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I remember when the Tiger team came in, a lot of the Tigers came out.

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And my nephew, Ree Horwell, was assisting at the time.

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And he bit Mel Ott, who was in the broadcasting.

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Broadcasting the Tigers game with Van Patred.

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Now, let's move back one step. Your nephew was teething. He was only, what, a year and a half old.

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Oh yeah, I wonder whenever the teething is. Yeah, but he wasn't an adult. He wasn't a Dracula.

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Oh, absolutely. You mentioned your horse.

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There was an amazing incident one night when you were on the road, I believe, and the Star of Arabia,

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which was your horse's name, decided to see more of the neighborhood than just your backyard.

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Yeah, you're right, Bob. She got out, ran all around town, crossed Charles Street, dodged the traffic,

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went over on Loyola University on the campus there, tore it up with her hoofs.

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And early in the morning, Lula didn't even know the horse was gone.

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She put the twins to bed and the boys were in the bed.

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Lula's awakened by the police cars coming up our driveway.

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And they ring the doorbell and she goes down there in a hurry.

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And the policeman says, I'm sorry, lady, that this horse is coming up into your yard.

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We've been chasing him. And she said, well, that's okay. It's my horse.

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But in the meantime, she had locked herself out of the house in the herd to get out.

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And they had to break the window to get back in and let her back in to take care of the twins.

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Baltimore also was the place where you got to know a gentleman that remained friends for quite a number of years, George Kell.

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Absolutely. George came there in the last part of his career.

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Paul Richards brought him in from Chicago. He played third base.

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And George and I became good friends. He would visit my house.

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He and his wife Charlene and the kids would come out. We'd play golf together.

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And in his final year, George was hitting the head, had a couple of other injuries, and he was slowing down and about ready to quit.

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Well, they put him on the disabled list when he got hit in the head and he didn't have anything else to do.

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So when he was at the ballpark, he came up to the press box.

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And while he was up there, I said, hey, George, why don't you come on and do an ending with us?

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And he came on the audio broadcast with Herb Carneal and me. And he did a great job.

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He was well accepted, the little bit he did. And I think it sort of put a bug in his ear about being an announcer.

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And later on, after he quit that year, he did get a job in sports broadcasting.

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CBS came to him and asked him to work on the pregame show on the TV, the Game of the Week.

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And it was a pretty good spot for George. And he called me from his home in Arkansas.

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He said, I'm going to do the first interview on my show with Casey Stengel.

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And he said, have you got any ideas about what to ask him?

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And I said, well, you know, just be yourself. You'll be great.

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But if you need a question, I think you could ask Casey, how does he select his batting on?

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In other words, why does he pick a certain guy to hit first or second or third and so forth?

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And he said, well, that might work.

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So after the season started and they'd done a show or two, I saw George and I said, hi, the interviewer Stengel, go.

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He said it was fine, but we didn't get past the leadoff man.

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It took the entire show to talk about the leadoff man. That was Casey.

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Now, you had the opportunity of broadcasting games for Jackie Robinson with the Dodgers.

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And then in Baltimore, your association began with another pretty fair country ball player whose last name was Robinson as well.

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You were there when Brooks broke in. Oh, yeah, he was a great kid. I love Brooks Robinson.

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He's one of my favorite players, one of my favorite people.

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He had come out of Arkansas and at that time was 17, 18 years old. He had a brief time with the birds.

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They brought him up and the first game he played, they played in Washington against the center.

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This he got two for four. He had a couple of hits. Didn't seem to have any trouble.

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He went back to the hotel, called his dad and said, it's not as tough as I thought it was going to be up here.

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And then I think he didn't get a hit the rest of the season.

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He learned his lesson early and he went back to a couple of places and finally Vancouver.

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And they brought him up from Vancouver and then he came up to stay.

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But he was a magician with a glove and he was a pretty good hitter and got better as his career lengthened.

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The first time I saw Brooks, I was with the Orioles when they came into Detroit.

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They had brought Brooks up. He had not yet signed at that point.

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And they put him out at second base and let him work out.

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He was a skinny guy, looked like he weighed about 150 pounds at that time and a good strong wind could blow him over.

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But eventually they signed him and he went on to be a true Hall of Famer.

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One of the best fielders the game has ever seen. And you've seen a lot of great guys with a glove, haven't you?

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Oh, absolutely. Rex Barney, my old pal from the Dodgers who did the P.A. at the Baltimore for years and was very popular.

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He always maintained that Billy Cox at Brooklyn was a better third baseman than Brooks.

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He loved Brooks, but he thought that Billy was better. So that was a guy.

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A lot of the national leagueers, I guess, leaned to Mike Schmidt and of course the old timers like the Pye trainer.

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And even before that, maybe Jimmy Collins way, way back in the early 1900s.

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But there are not too many third basemen in the Hall of Fame when you compare them against other positions.

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Let's stop in 1958 for just a minute.

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Young man from Huntersville, North Carolina, who threw one of the hardest pitches in the world to hit, the knuckleball, pitched a no-hitter one afternoon, Hoyt Wilhelm.

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Hoyt Wilhelm was a guy that Paul Richard had a lot of faith in.

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Paul got him fairly late in his career. He was a starter and a reliever.

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His real fame came from the bullpen. But at this point in 1958, Wilhelm was a starting pitcher for the Orioles.

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He pitched against the Yankees and pitched the first no-hitter that anybody had ever pitched against the New York Yankees.

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And also the first no-hitter in the Baltimore Oriole big league history.

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So it was a big occasion for Herb Carneal and for me as we broadcast that no-hitter at Memorial Stadium that Wilhelm achieved.

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Two down in the ninth inning, one to nothing, the birds in the lead.

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The wind up, the pitch is outside for a ball, one and one.

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Well, this crowd going wild now and rooting for Hoyt Wilhelm all the way.

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Here's the wind up and the pitch. He swings and misses, two strikes.

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Well, he needs only one more pitch if it can be the right one.

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One and two, the count on Bauer. Two down in the ninth inning.

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Wilhelm kicking around a little bit out on the mound. Now check at his side.

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Bauer guarding the plate. Here it comes. He swings and there's a high pop-up into right field.

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It may be Gardner going back. Tasbe in. Gardner's got in a no-hitter for Wilhelm.

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He's got a no-hitter. Wilhelm pitches the first no-hitter in modern Oriole history.

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And he's sped by his teammates as he comes to the dugout.

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It's a brilliant no-hit victory for Hoyt Wilhelm. Bauer, the last man to play fly ball in the short right field,

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picked off by Billy Gardner.

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And Hoyt Wilhelm has made Baltimore history here today at Memorial Stadium

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with a brilliant no-hit shutout over the America League champion, New York Yankees.

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remain