WEBVTT 00:00:08.359 --> 00:00:11.140 What's going on, Pursuers? Welcome to The Pursuit 00:00:11.140 --> 00:00:14.339 of Calling, the podcast that provides you with 00:00:14.339 --> 00:00:17.260 the strategies and tools needed to successfully 00:00:17.260 --> 00:00:20.820 discover and pursue your calling. Whether it's 00:00:20.820 --> 00:00:23.239 through inspiring stories, thought -provoking 00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:26.160 interviews, or quick, insightful episodes on 00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:28.559 personal growth and development, we've got you 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:32.359 covered. I'm your host, Thomas Carney. Enjoy 00:00:32.359 --> 00:00:40.640 the episode. All right, everyone. Welcome to 00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:42.399 this episode of the Pursuit of Calling podcast. 00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:46.460 And today, you'll see him right now, I'm here 00:00:46.460 --> 00:00:50.439 with Norbert Elnar. Is that how you say it? Yeah. 00:00:50.700 --> 00:00:54.780 Great. I'm here with Norbert Elnar. We met through, 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:57.039 again, as you've seen with a lot of my previous 00:00:57.039 --> 00:00:59.579 guests, through Maxwell Leadership. We are both 00:00:59.579 --> 00:01:06.209 Maxwell certified. coaches speakers or whatever 00:01:06.209 --> 00:01:08.709 track we decided to go down in the in that respect 00:01:08.709 --> 00:01:13.150 and i met norbert recently we had a conversation 00:01:13.150 --> 00:01:16.390 on zoom he told me like he lives over in germany 00:01:16.390 --> 00:01:19.390 so we're recording here at noon here and 6 p 00:01:19.390 --> 00:01:22.209 .m there which was like a different kind of setup 00:01:22.209 --> 00:01:26.590 for me which i never like um so like right so 00:01:26.590 --> 00:01:28.890 i never had to like coordinate with that far 00:01:28.890 --> 00:01:31.890 of a uh time zone difference so that was so this 00:01:31.890 --> 00:01:34.269 is honestly really cool And it's cool to be able 00:01:34.269 --> 00:01:36.150 to talk to somebody. Technology is amazing. To 00:01:36.150 --> 00:01:37.390 be able to talk to somebody on the other side 00:01:37.390 --> 00:01:43.069 of the world. And guys, I want to share a story 00:01:43.069 --> 00:01:44.670 with you. I learned recently that you can see 00:01:44.670 --> 00:01:45.950 the book behind him if you're watching this on 00:01:45.950 --> 00:01:48.769 YouTube. You see I Am A Masterpiece. It's a children's 00:01:48.769 --> 00:01:50.689 book that he wrote. So go ahead and check that 00:01:50.689 --> 00:01:52.069 out. And we'll put the link in the show notes. 00:01:52.189 --> 00:01:55.489 But anyway, that's more than an intro. So Norbert, 00:01:55.569 --> 00:01:59.900 who? Norbert, thanks for being on the show. Well, 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:02.620 Thomas, thank you so much for that kind introduction, 00:02:02.819 --> 00:02:07.060 and I am so honored to be on your show. Definitely. 00:02:07.180 --> 00:02:11.759 Thank you for your yes. This is honestly one 00:02:11.759 --> 00:02:14.319 of the coolest things that I get to do with the 00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:16.699 podcast, is just be able to talk to so many cool, 00:02:16.699 --> 00:02:21.199 dynamic people. And now with somebody over in 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:22.659 Germany and all this other world, like I said, 00:02:22.759 --> 00:02:26.780 it's just really cool. But Norbert, so for those... 00:02:27.579 --> 00:02:29.000 I'm going to assume most of the people that are 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:30.599 going to be listening to this episode aren't 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:34.919 going to know who you are. So share with us a 00:02:34.919 --> 00:02:39.240 little bit about your backstory and how God first 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:41.340 started stirring things up in you. I know you 00:02:41.340 --> 00:02:42.960 shared some stuff with me on our previous call, 00:02:43.099 --> 00:02:46.620 but let's start diving into that. Wow. Again, 00:02:46.860 --> 00:02:50.240 thank you so much, Thomas, for the huge honor 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:53.120 to be on your show. It's, again, thankful for 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:56.960 technology that we get to do this. Hi, everybody. 00:02:57.180 --> 00:03:00.419 My name is Norbert Elnar. I am born Filipino 00:03:00.419 --> 00:03:03.340 and I was raised in the Philippines, but now 00:03:03.340 --> 00:03:06.960 I live in Berlin, Germany. I am married to my 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:10.819 beautiful German wife, Sophie, who I met during 00:03:10.819 --> 00:03:19.370 a volunteering. stint i would call it the stint 00:03:19.370 --> 00:03:24.150 i met my wife in the in a volunteering season 00:03:24.150 --> 00:03:28.210 of my life in south africa so we met there we 00:03:28.210 --> 00:03:31.009 got together there now that's why i'm here living 00:03:31.009 --> 00:03:35.810 in germany so um it's it's oh that question is 00:03:35.810 --> 00:03:40.009 really loaded i think um when when when somebody 00:03:40.009 --> 00:03:46.849 asks me about how you know how how my life went 00:03:46.849 --> 00:03:49.650 and how I pursued my calling, I would always 00:03:49.650 --> 00:03:53.750 say that it all started even when I thought I 00:03:53.750 --> 00:04:00.830 was even called. And in general, I was a senior 00:04:00.830 --> 00:04:02.830 art director for a multinational advertising 00:04:02.830 --> 00:04:05.750 agency back in the Philippines. And I really 00:04:05.750 --> 00:04:08.009 loved what I did. I mean, it's not every day 00:04:08.009 --> 00:04:11.449 you get to make commercials and you get to... 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:14.819 really pursue what you're passionate about and 00:04:14.819 --> 00:04:18.459 i love branding marketing creative work and i'm 00:04:18.459 --> 00:04:21.860 really obsessed with creative work so um i went 00:04:21.860 --> 00:04:25.279 through that field and it was only until a certain 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:31.300 time at least before around 2013 2014 when we 00:04:31.300 --> 00:04:35.259 started to create we started to do some political 00:04:35.259 --> 00:04:38.319 advertising and this is when it hit me really 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:42.279 hard about how powerful advertising is because 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:46.360 by definition, advertising is paid for non -personal 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:51.600 communication. And we are made to create messages 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:57.629 on promoting something. It's cool when you start 00:04:57.629 --> 00:05:01.930 to promote coffee and bread and consumer products. 00:05:02.110 --> 00:05:04.870 It's really fun. But when we started to do political 00:05:04.870 --> 00:05:08.910 campaigns, it hit me hard. And then I realized 00:05:08.910 --> 00:05:11.870 that, oh my goodness, we're not just pushing 00:05:11.870 --> 00:05:14.949 our product. We are actually crafting a message 00:05:14.949 --> 00:05:18.730 that will determine the nation's future. And 00:05:18.730 --> 00:05:24.490 this was really scary for me because I was too... 00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:30.300 I was afraid that I might be on the wrong side. 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:35.579 And because that was our job, we had to do what 00:05:35.579 --> 00:05:39.259 we do. So that weight didn't sit very well with 00:05:39.259 --> 00:05:41.959 me in the beginning. It was fun, but I really 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:47.079 felt it was really difficult. And that's where 00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:49.720 I decided, I told God, like, God, this has to 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:54.100 change because I love what I do. It feels very 00:05:54.100 --> 00:05:58.420 heavy and I was almost too scared to make a mistake. 00:05:58.699 --> 00:06:05.100 And true enough, what happened was I actually 00:06:05.100 --> 00:06:12.279 quit my job because I couldn't align myself anymore 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:15.220 with what I was doing, with what I love doing 00:06:15.220 --> 00:06:20.939 and who and what I was serving. So it threw me 00:06:20.939 --> 00:06:27.180 off. I had this moment when I was in a church 00:06:27.180 --> 00:06:34.620 service, and literally, there was a call that 00:06:34.620 --> 00:06:38.500 was made by the pastor. And in that moment when 00:06:38.500 --> 00:06:43.920 this altar call was made, I realized that God 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:47.519 brought up an impression in my heart that I had 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:50.610 when I was young. And it's sort of like, It was 00:06:50.610 --> 00:06:55.250 like a switch that was flicked, then turned on. 00:06:55.410 --> 00:06:57.250 And then I realized like, oh my goodness, I feel 00:06:57.250 --> 00:07:00.810 like I'm called to do something more. So I said 00:07:00.810 --> 00:07:04.490 yes to God in that particular service, not knowing 00:07:04.490 --> 00:07:07.949 exactly what I said yes to. I just realized that, 00:07:07.990 --> 00:07:12.810 you know what, I love what I do, but I said yes 00:07:12.810 --> 00:07:16.370 to the idea that God, you can use me to do something 00:07:16.370 --> 00:07:19.579 with what I can. what i have what where i'm at 00:07:19.579 --> 00:07:22.939 right now and you take care of it let me just 00:07:22.939 --> 00:07:26.800 tell me what to do i'll do it yeah and this was 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:30.079 a very dangerous prayer because this decision 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:35.720 this answering of the call led me to south africa 00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:40.100 in 2015 so i left everything i left a promising 00:07:40.100 --> 00:07:43.160 career of advertising nobody understood what 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:46.389 i did why i did that just went to South Africa 00:07:46.389 --> 00:07:49.649 and did this biblical internship. And during 00:07:49.649 --> 00:07:53.709 this time, here in this period, which was supposed 00:07:53.709 --> 00:07:56.430 to be only a year, became like four. And this 00:07:56.430 --> 00:08:02.750 is where the entire story changed because I realized 00:08:02.750 --> 00:08:06.649 that when you align your passions with a bigger 00:08:06.649 --> 00:08:11.589 purpose, it unlocks a huge destiny. I realized 00:08:11.589 --> 00:08:15.189 how powerful professional advertising, marketing, 00:08:15.189 --> 00:08:18.750 and branding is when it's applied to kingdom 00:08:18.750 --> 00:08:23.209 -minded, purpose -driven endeavors. And when 00:08:23.209 --> 00:08:29.629 these two things mix, then it exploded like crazy. 00:08:29.889 --> 00:08:34.509 And since then, I'm so passionate about serving 00:08:34.509 --> 00:08:41.830 brands who really champion purpose. core is purpose 00:08:41.830 --> 00:08:46.169 and purpose is not an afterthought whose brands 00:08:46.169 --> 00:08:48.250 who are called to do something greater than for 00:08:48.250 --> 00:08:50.789 themselves than themselves and they are pursuing 00:08:50.789 --> 00:08:54.750 this calling on the brand themselves so yeah 00:08:54.750 --> 00:08:57.889 and that's why i ended up doing what i do and 00:08:57.889 --> 00:09:01.669 now i really help uh transform businesses and 00:09:01.669 --> 00:09:05.509 organizations into influential impactful and 00:09:05.509 --> 00:09:09.330 profitable kingdom brands through the kingdom 00:09:09.330 --> 00:09:12.190 brand compass framework that we developed along 00:09:12.190 --> 00:09:16.870 the process well you said that you like like 00:09:16.870 --> 00:09:22.490 you're focusing on with companies to uh not have 00:09:22.490 --> 00:09:26.049 purpose be an afterthought yeah right and whenever 00:09:26.049 --> 00:09:29.110 you first enter these companies are is that sometimes 00:09:29.110 --> 00:09:31.149 the case where it is an afterthought and you're 00:09:31.149 --> 00:09:32.769 wanting and you need to bring purpose to the 00:09:32.769 --> 00:09:34.690 forefront or is this already something that they 00:09:34.690 --> 00:09:39.679 want to pursue so um It can be both. Sometimes 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:47.000 they already do something that gave them some 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:51.559 sort of income and they feel this emptiness, 00:09:51.860 --> 00:09:55.559 right? So I come in with our Kingdom Brand Compass, 00:09:55.639 --> 00:09:59.240 help them find that greater purpose and meaning 00:09:59.240 --> 00:10:04.759 about their company. Or sometimes somebody comes 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:08.320 into our program who's really... who has that 00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:12.379 big desire or that righteous anger who wants 00:10:12.379 --> 00:10:15.899 to pursue something and who wants to start right. 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:21.559 So then we also help them craft the brand based 00:10:21.559 --> 00:10:24.320 on their faith and based on the purpose that 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:30.440 was given on their lives. Man. I'm really interested 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:32.899 in diving into that Kingdom Compass framework 00:10:32.899 --> 00:10:35.440 that you're talking about. Could you give like 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:37.259 a high level? I don't know if you have something 00:10:37.259 --> 00:10:39.080 like that on top of your head, but do you have 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:41.659 like a high level version of that you could share 00:10:41.659 --> 00:10:46.019 with us? Yeah, sure. The thing is, the reason 00:10:46.019 --> 00:10:49.419 why it's a compass first is that the compass 00:10:49.419 --> 00:10:53.419 is a very good illustration of direction. And 00:10:53.419 --> 00:10:59.639 as businesses, as brands, we are thrown into 00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:04.840 an ocean. of noise sort of right and it's like 00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:07.159 you have a ship in the ocean and then your ship 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:11.799 first of all needs to needs to float and your 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:14.399 ship is either big or small whatever kind of 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:17.360 ship that is it has to navigate this ocean and 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:19.600 you have to go from point a to point b making 00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:21.899 sure you do not sink and that you deliver the 00:11:21.899 --> 00:11:24.960 right message the right cargo of what you of 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:27.740 what you're carrying for your audience so and 00:11:27.740 --> 00:11:32.409 the reason why we It's a compass because the 00:11:32.409 --> 00:11:35.269 compass always points you to your true north. 00:11:35.350 --> 00:11:39.590 And the north part of our compass, we call it 00:11:39.590 --> 00:11:43.769 actually the mandate. And the mandate is the 00:11:43.769 --> 00:11:47.649 anchor scripture that really grounds your business. 00:11:47.789 --> 00:11:52.269 This is the divine why of why you're doing what 00:11:52.269 --> 00:11:56.480 you're doing. So no matter what craziness. And 00:11:56.480 --> 00:12:00.840 no matter how things are going around, no matter 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:06.019 what storm your brand goes through, it will always 00:12:06.019 --> 00:12:09.980 point you back to your true north. So that's 00:12:09.980 --> 00:12:12.440 very important in the Kingdom Brand Compass. 00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:16.379 The very first step is actually figuring out 00:12:16.379 --> 00:12:20.899 the mandate of your business, why God has called 00:12:20.899 --> 00:12:24.679 you to do business organization. The compass 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:28.679 has six major pillars. So it starts with the 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:31.659 first step is, of course, the mandate. This is 00:12:31.659 --> 00:12:34.200 your define why. That's the northern part of 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:37.000 the compass. The southern part is called, we 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:40.399 call it the ministry. It's actually, in marketing 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:42.960 terms, we call it like the target audience, basically. 00:12:43.340 --> 00:12:48.940 So this section answers like, who am I uniquely 00:12:48.940 --> 00:12:53.200 called to serve? So in Kingdom Branding, we do 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:57.759 not, see people as cash cows. We treat them as 00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:01.620 real people. We try to educate the brands to 00:13:01.620 --> 00:13:04.960 see people for who they are, that God called 00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:06.919 you to serve a specific group of people. So this 00:13:06.919 --> 00:13:09.860 is what the ministry part of the compass does. 00:13:11.289 --> 00:13:15.090 The eastern part is called the mission. And in 00:13:15.090 --> 00:13:17.090 the mission, we answer the question, what is 00:13:17.090 --> 00:13:20.210 the excellent service or product I deliver? So 00:13:20.210 --> 00:13:23.690 in this area, we challenge, we help you craft 00:13:23.690 --> 00:13:28.009 an excellent product or service in the way that 00:13:28.009 --> 00:13:33.409 you communicate that. So that's because we represent 00:13:33.409 --> 00:13:38.190 God across the board. So it has to be excellent, 00:13:38.470 --> 00:13:42.029 not perfect. but excellent and on the west side 00:13:42.029 --> 00:13:46.110 um we have uh this pillar called the media so 00:13:46.110 --> 00:13:50.409 it's really just a section that answers where 00:13:50.409 --> 00:13:54.070 do i strategically show up because um you know 00:13:54.070 --> 00:13:56.830 media can be overwhelming already by itself so 00:13:56.830 --> 00:13:59.990 we try to like help the business owners and the 00:13:59.990 --> 00:14:03.909 leaders to think it through what kind of platforms, 00:14:04.250 --> 00:14:06.950 what kind of media that your branches show up 00:14:06.950 --> 00:14:11.529 to have the maximum impact without losing your 00:14:11.529 --> 00:14:17.070 mind. Right? And I'm sure you know what I mean 00:14:17.070 --> 00:14:20.009 because it's so overwhelming with how media is 00:14:20.009 --> 00:14:25.950 being presented to us. And a lot of people, Thomas, 00:14:27.370 --> 00:14:29.629 They approach me and say, I really don't want 00:14:29.629 --> 00:14:32.929 to be part of this media economy and social media 00:14:32.929 --> 00:14:38.269 is not this. It's too, forgive my term, sometimes 00:14:38.269 --> 00:14:42.889 people think that it's too evil. People have 00:14:42.889 --> 00:14:49.289 this idea of really demonizing social media. 00:14:49.330 --> 00:14:52.049 But I think it's not right because it's a tool. 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:58.059 It's not supposed to be meant for evil. So we 00:14:58.059 --> 00:15:00.960 as Kingdom brands need to shine light in this 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:04.019 area. That's why we need to be present in media. 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:08.120 So yeah, that's the media. And in the intersections 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:11.919 between the compass, the north, the northeast, 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:15.440 southeast, and all these other parts is called 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:20.240 the movements. So the movement is basically answering 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:22.899 the question, how do all the parts of the brand 00:15:22.899 --> 00:15:27.340 work in rhythm? So these are the... The brand 00:15:27.340 --> 00:15:30.779 expressions, your brand assets are here. We help 00:15:30.779 --> 00:15:33.620 you craft your reasons to believe, how you write 00:15:33.620 --> 00:15:38.519 your copy, how you do your tone, your personality. 00:15:38.820 --> 00:15:41.460 Everything is in there. And then at the center 00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:45.940 of the compass where your needle is, that needle 00:15:45.940 --> 00:15:49.440 that points to the north always, is called the 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:53.139 message. It is the unchanging truth that your 00:15:53.139 --> 00:15:57.590 brand stands for. This is the unique brand identity 00:15:57.590 --> 00:15:59.809 and purpose, the greater purpose of your brand 00:15:59.809 --> 00:16:03.549 that's being presented to the world. And it always 00:16:03.549 --> 00:16:07.629 points back to your divine mandate as a business. 00:16:08.169 --> 00:16:13.809 So yeah, that was like the bigger overview. I 00:16:13.809 --> 00:16:16.470 hope that was helpful. No, no, that was great. 00:16:17.029 --> 00:16:20.759 Hopefully I'm able to get like a... summary of 00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:22.700 that in the show notes for for people that want 00:16:22.700 --> 00:16:24.860 to go back and see what see and like you mean 00:16:24.860 --> 00:16:26.460 you can rewind or you can go to the show notes 00:16:26.460 --> 00:16:30.399 and hopefully i should be able to have a um summary 00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:34.039 of what he just said uh for you guys so you guys 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:36.299 can uh look into that for yourselves as well 00:16:36.299 --> 00:16:38.519 because i feel like you could also not just attribute 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:40.539 that to a business but contribute and contribute 00:16:40.539 --> 00:16:47.059 that to an individual Absolutely. We found out 00:16:47.059 --> 00:16:50.460 that it works for any kind of brand, be it a 00:16:50.460 --> 00:16:55.340 personal brand, be it a non -profit or a retail 00:16:55.340 --> 00:16:57.059 business or whatever kind of business. Because 00:16:57.059 --> 00:17:02.059 I think even in the age of AI, these branding 00:17:02.059 --> 00:17:05.359 concepts are so fundamental and so foundational 00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:11.480 that it's worth stopping and figuring it out. 00:17:11.740 --> 00:17:17.039 Because these are the core pillars that your 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:21.019 business should be built upon. And it makes the 00:17:21.019 --> 00:17:23.299 brand agile. It makes the brand adaptable into 00:17:23.299 --> 00:17:26.960 any situation, no matter how the mediums change. 00:17:27.539 --> 00:17:31.400 So we're very passionate about really helping 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:34.960 the brands figure out. I mean, Thomas, you know 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:38.819 what it is when you're not walking in your calling, 00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:42.630 right? Right. And this is exactly the same tool 00:17:42.630 --> 00:17:47.710 that we're trying to implement for brands because 00:17:47.710 --> 00:17:49.950 we also believe that brands are called into something. 00:17:50.069 --> 00:17:55.250 Now, if you miss your calling, then I think it's 00:17:55.250 --> 00:17:58.950 just a waste of resources. Yeah, like if you're 00:17:58.950 --> 00:18:00.609 not working or living your calling, you kind 00:18:00.609 --> 00:18:02.990 of feel lost, nameless. And that's what the compass 00:18:02.990 --> 00:18:08.130 is for. Absolutely. I love that you used a compass 00:18:08.130 --> 00:18:10.779 because whenever you're... following and having 00:18:10.779 --> 00:18:13.240 something that guides you on the path that you're 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:15.420 supposed to be on, even if you don't know what 00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:18.180 that path is, as long as you're keeping within 00:18:18.180 --> 00:18:22.619 on the path that this compass is guiding you 00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:26.140 on, on these guardrails, then you're able to 00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:30.960 pursue what God has, like you said, divinely 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:34.599 bestowed on your life. And one thing you said, 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:36.700 and which I think we talked about previously, 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:42.880 whenever we talked last, you said that the north 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:46.420 part of the compass is the mandate, and that's 00:18:46.420 --> 00:18:49.160 your divine why. And I think that's also, whenever 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:52.839 I ask you what calling is to you, it's kind of 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:55.720 the same phrase you use, I believe. You say your 00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:59.680 divine why. Is that right? Yes. In reference 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:02.859 to the compass, yes. The calling is my divine 00:19:02.859 --> 00:19:08.460 why, and it's that unique. purpose that god places 00:19:08.460 --> 00:19:13.619 you know in my heart and um it's really it's 00:19:13.619 --> 00:19:16.839 it's really less about finding out but more about 00:19:16.839 --> 00:19:22.660 listening of of what he has for for me or for 00:19:22.660 --> 00:19:41.059 the brand or for the organization I'm interested. 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:49.079 I'm curious. Whenever you would say, and I apologize. 00:19:49.460 --> 00:19:58.960 Go for it. No worries. Whenever you were asked, 00:19:59.140 --> 00:20:02.420 what is your calling? What is your purpose? You 00:20:02.420 --> 00:20:03.960 might have already said it. That's why I was 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:10.259 saying I apologize. But if you were to be asked 00:20:10.259 --> 00:20:13.319 directly, what is your calling? What would you 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:19.480 say? So it actually took me a while to be able 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:24.819 to get an answer to that question. And I think 00:20:24.819 --> 00:20:30.359 even in the process of doing the Brand Compass 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:35.200 and all this transition of my life, I really 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:40.730 had a difficult time. moment of actually first 00:20:40.730 --> 00:20:44.869 understanding what a call is and then defining 00:20:44.869 --> 00:20:51.650 it for myself. Because when you're young, I really 00:20:51.650 --> 00:20:54.930 thought calling was a career that you choose. 00:20:55.569 --> 00:21:00.039 And that was it. That was the example. that we 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:05.740 normally see, that we're told. People ask you, 00:21:05.779 --> 00:21:07.880 what do you want to do when you grow up? I thought 00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:10.160 that was a calling already. And of course, it 00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:18.480 changes over time. And I never knew what it meant 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:25.220 for me. And I think it's safe to say that I only 00:21:25.220 --> 00:21:30.009 defined my calling when I sort of like, was about 00:21:30.009 --> 00:21:34.150 to turn 30. And in the season where I told you 00:21:34.150 --> 00:21:37.170 earlier, when I was in that space where I was 00:21:37.170 --> 00:21:40.789 trying to really find myself in terms of my alignment 00:21:40.789 --> 00:21:44.289 with my career, with my life, with my divine 00:21:44.289 --> 00:21:47.950 purpose, this is when I started to question the 00:21:47.950 --> 00:21:51.369 call on my life because I didn't know if I was 00:21:51.369 --> 00:21:54.730 called to something. Because when you're in a 00:21:54.730 --> 00:21:56.589 comfortable situation, you don't think about 00:21:56.589 --> 00:22:00.990 these things. And I'm like, But that certain 00:22:00.990 --> 00:22:05.309 unrest and unsettlement in my heart was the one 00:22:05.309 --> 00:22:09.170 that was nudging. So when I went to South Africa, 00:22:09.430 --> 00:22:13.430 I was part of a biblical internship program, 00:22:13.589 --> 00:22:17.450 right? And in the middle of this, the first year 00:22:17.450 --> 00:22:20.609 of our program, there was a preacher who talked 00:22:20.609 --> 00:22:25.450 about calling. And it was a very simple example. 00:22:28.940 --> 00:22:31.799 When Samuel was called into ministry when he 00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:35.240 was 12, this very famous children's story of 00:22:35.240 --> 00:22:39.039 Samuel, Samuel. And then he goes up, goes to 00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:43.740 Eli three times, and this whole very powerful 00:22:43.740 --> 00:22:46.599 Bible story. And in my head, because I read that 00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:50.819 so many times in Sunday school, there's a picture 00:22:50.819 --> 00:22:53.720 in my head of how that looks like. But once he 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:56.880 unpacked this scripture for us, I remember the 00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:59.759 preacher said that, There was a time in your 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:04.720 life, and I think he did not say that this is 00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:08.259 a formula, but for me, this worked. It spoke 00:23:08.259 --> 00:23:11.400 to me a lot. He said, you might want to remember 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:15.220 a time in your childhood when you felt something 00:23:15.220 --> 00:23:19.559 supernatural was spoken over you or was prompted 00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:24.519 in your heart because that might be the specific 00:23:24.519 --> 00:23:29.450 call of God on your life. Thomas, I was so shocked 00:23:29.450 --> 00:23:34.549 when this was said. I remember bawling in that 00:23:34.549 --> 00:23:39.690 service because when he pointed this out in the 00:23:39.690 --> 00:23:42.349 scripture, especially on the story of Samuel, 00:23:42.529 --> 00:23:46.250 one situation came into my mind immediately. 00:23:46.470 --> 00:23:50.549 It was when I was around, I think I was 16 turning 00:23:50.549 --> 00:23:55.049 17. I remembered out of nowhere, and it was so 00:23:55.049 --> 00:23:58.240 clear in my memory, that I felt like God said 00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:01.859 to me, you know what? You need to prepare because 00:24:01.859 --> 00:24:06.599 something crazy will happen before you turn 30. 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:11.019 And that was it. And I, of course, as a 16 -year 00:24:11.019 --> 00:24:15.619 -old kid, I would have, I'm like, yeah, 30, too 00:24:15.619 --> 00:24:21.039 old, too far, whatever, you know? I never really 00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:24.670 thought about it much. And I would have not thought 00:24:24.670 --> 00:24:27.029 it was, you know, what was that? Like, where 00:24:27.029 --> 00:24:29.890 did that come from? But when this was brought 00:24:29.890 --> 00:24:36.150 up like 15 years later, it confirmed what I felt 00:24:36.150 --> 00:24:41.670 was my call on my life. And I realized in that 00:24:41.670 --> 00:24:45.690 moment that, oh my word, I am actually living 00:24:45.690 --> 00:24:49.009 in that crazy moment that God was talking about 00:24:49.009 --> 00:24:52.660 15 years ago. And this was the confirmation of 00:24:52.660 --> 00:24:56.200 the call. And then I realized in that process, 00:24:56.339 --> 00:24:59.259 in that entire year, I really tried to capture 00:24:59.259 --> 00:25:04.740 what I was called to do. And as an artist, as 00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:09.640 a branding person, it's very important to me 00:25:09.640 --> 00:25:13.220 to really be clear on what the message is. So 00:25:13.220 --> 00:25:16.299 in this process, I realized that my call was 00:25:16.299 --> 00:25:26.380 to preach the gospel. And this is the entire 00:25:26.380 --> 00:25:31.940 thing. I am called to preach the gospel, to bring 00:25:31.940 --> 00:25:35.619 the gospel of Jesus wherever I go through my 00:25:35.619 --> 00:25:38.619 creativity, which actually belongs to the Lord. 00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:44.240 And I've been really checking on that call every 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:47.480 now and then. If I am doing that, then I am... 00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:49.839 I feel the peace that I'm doing what I'm called 00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:52.700 to do. And no matter what it looks like, whether 00:25:52.700 --> 00:25:55.579 it's on a podcast, whether it's on a Sunday preaching 00:25:55.579 --> 00:25:59.799 or just talking to clients or whatever that encounter 00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:05.660 is, if I am aligned to that call, then it gives 00:26:05.660 --> 00:26:09.400 me peace and I'm assured that I'm on the path 00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:13.279 where I'm supposed to be. No, that's awesome. 00:26:13.500 --> 00:26:17.880 The way you talk about it is like, it's a lot 00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:21.900 how i like to view it as like a calling is like 00:26:21.900 --> 00:26:24.980 the lens that you see your life through um there 00:26:24.980 --> 00:26:27.500 is a uh someone that was on a previous episode 00:26:27.500 --> 00:26:30.460 like maybe over a year ago they like use that 00:26:30.460 --> 00:26:32.880 term lens and i was like i can't see it any other 00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:38.059 way now and i'm like uh because you see like 00:26:38.059 --> 00:26:40.720 i i have like a phrase for michael from what 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:43.079 i believe my calling is To provide people with 00:26:43.079 --> 00:26:45.680 the tools needed to successfully discover and 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:50.980 pursue their God -given calling. And I see my 00:26:50.980 --> 00:26:54.180 life through that lens. So I'm like, am I doing, 00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:56.880 like you said, am I doing what I need to be doing 00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:00.680 in this instance? Even at my job, I still have 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:02.839 a full -time job. So even at my job, am I doing 00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:06.680 that? Am I building people up and not tearing 00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:09.960 them down so that they can be doing what they're 00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:13.890 called to do? And, or to bring them, or even 00:27:13.890 --> 00:27:15.970 to bring them to Christ so that they can find 00:27:15.970 --> 00:27:20.150 out what they're called to do. And like, like 00:27:20.150 --> 00:27:24.329 that's with, like, I kind of did something similar. 00:27:24.450 --> 00:27:28.269 Like I had a set something separate from my, 00:27:28.269 --> 00:27:30.150 it was, it was part of my calling, but it was 00:27:30.150 --> 00:27:32.710 more, it was like a goal I had set out. And I, 00:27:32.769 --> 00:27:34.509 after reading a book, I think you grow rich. 00:27:34.769 --> 00:27:36.130 I don't know if you ever read it by Napoleon 00:27:36.130 --> 00:27:40.619 Hill, but I, I wrote down, I wrote out like what 00:27:40.619 --> 00:27:45.059 he's like, write down like from like, this was 00:27:45.059 --> 00:27:46.480 probably like financial goals. I write down a 00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:47.900 financial goal and I write down everything you're 00:27:47.900 --> 00:27:49.680 going to do in order to get reach that goal. 00:27:50.539 --> 00:27:52.900 And I was like, well, I'm going to use my podcast. 00:27:53.019 --> 00:27:55.980 I'm going to help people on my podcast, my coaching, 00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:59.819 which I wasn't a coach yet. And, uh, and I'm 00:27:59.819 --> 00:28:03.019 going to sell these different merch items, uh, 00:28:03.099 --> 00:28:06.119 that, that's going to promote, uh, promote the 00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:07.339 brand. I didn't know what was going on on yet. 00:28:08.919 --> 00:28:12.519 And I, we realized just maybe like a month ago, 00:28:12.660 --> 00:28:15.940 I was like, literally like everything I said 00:28:15.940 --> 00:28:17.940 in that besides the money amount, but everything 00:28:17.940 --> 00:28:19.960 I said in that, like in order to get from where 00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:23.119 I want, uh, from where I am to where I want to 00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:27.660 be, like everything I wrote down in that list, 00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:29.880 I started doing without even like referring back 00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:32.160 to referring back to it. And I wrote it down 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:34.500 over a year ago. I used to read it every single 00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:39.080 day to keep it like ingrained in my mind. And 00:28:39.080 --> 00:28:41.099 I'm at the starting block. I feel like I set 00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:43.259 that foundation and I'm still need to build stuff 00:28:43.259 --> 00:28:45.619 on top of it in order to like really get to where, 00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:47.599 get to where I want to be. So I can reach the 00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:49.539 people I feel called, I believe I'm called to 00:28:49.539 --> 00:28:56.779 reach, but the, but like, I don't know if I glory 00:28:56.779 --> 00:28:59.359 to God that like that actually what I wrote down 00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:02.720 there is actually what I ended up pursuing. And 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:06.480 I always did that while I was pursuing him. as 00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:10.779 my as the core focus as like nothing is like 00:29:10.779 --> 00:29:14.200 um i think kind of what you said like similar 00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:17.319 to what you said before people sometimes demonize 00:29:17.319 --> 00:29:21.799 making money and demon and like it's not and 00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:23.859 i'm like people sometimes demon like it's like 00:29:23.859 --> 00:29:27.079 yeah i'm gonna sell these products because i 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:31.859 want people to um put money towards something 00:29:31.859 --> 00:29:34.779 not towards me but like invest put their money 00:29:34.779 --> 00:29:36.740 into something that's going to benefit their 00:29:36.740 --> 00:29:39.019 lives and whenever you put something that you 00:29:39.019 --> 00:29:41.180 value if you pay money which is something you 00:29:41.180 --> 00:29:42.859 value towards something you value you're going 00:29:42.859 --> 00:29:46.599 to value it more absolutely and and like um that's 00:29:46.599 --> 00:29:48.339 why i have the like i mentioned my shirts earlier 00:29:48.339 --> 00:29:52.559 um they say uh you were made for more on the 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:55.259 back and it's like the shirt isn't for you who's 00:29:55.259 --> 00:29:57.339 wearing it it's for the people around you who 00:29:57.339 --> 00:29:59.859 are going to read the shirt that's cool that's 00:29:59.859 --> 00:30:05.799 amazing and And I think I really appreciate what 00:30:05.799 --> 00:30:10.460 you do here because I think this year podcast, 00:30:10.819 --> 00:30:13.859 you know, it is a springboard for people who 00:30:13.859 --> 00:30:17.299 are even in the crossroads of their life thinking 00:30:17.299 --> 00:30:21.220 about considering that they're called to a higher 00:30:21.220 --> 00:30:26.769 purpose. And I mean, back in the days, I did 00:30:26.769 --> 00:30:30.410 not have podcasts like this that I could sort 00:30:30.410 --> 00:30:32.670 of like at least help me reflect, you know, like 00:30:32.670 --> 00:30:34.990 you're just in the dark. And I think it's very 00:30:34.990 --> 00:30:37.230 important what you do here. And I just want to 00:30:37.230 --> 00:30:41.589 give you a really good shout out that this topic 00:30:41.589 --> 00:30:45.410 on calling on purpose is so important, especially 00:30:45.410 --> 00:30:49.069 for the young people who are really. trying to 00:30:49.069 --> 00:30:52.769 figure out uh this whole thing and i think the 00:30:52.769 --> 00:30:56.190 sooner you embrace your calling the sooner you 00:30:56.190 --> 00:30:59.470 unlock this part of your life the the better 00:30:59.470 --> 00:31:02.630 it it gets and it's not going to be easy but 00:31:02.630 --> 00:31:06.750 it will definitely change the game oh for sure 00:31:06.750 --> 00:31:10.819 for sure and like For those who have listened 00:31:10.819 --> 00:31:13.059 to this podcast for a little bit, they know I've 00:31:13.059 --> 00:31:15.259 said all the things that I just said. I've said 00:31:15.259 --> 00:31:20.759 them so many times before. Whether you heard 00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:22.579 it for the first time or heard it for the thousandth 00:31:22.579 --> 00:31:26.759 time, it's like, I want to drill this into people's 00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:29.000 heads. Your calling is the lens that you see 00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:30.859 your life through. When you figure out your calling, 00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:39.160 your life changes. Absolutely. but no man i appreciate 00:31:39.160 --> 00:31:41.960 you diving into this with me and like i know 00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:46.440 the um people can even take that king even if 00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:49.220 they're what you're the compass uh that we talked 00:31:49.220 --> 00:31:51.900 about even if they don't have a brand even if 00:31:51.900 --> 00:31:53.220 they don't have something they can take parts 00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:55.279 of that and be like what is my mandate what is 00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:58.059 my personal mandate on my life my divine calling 00:31:58.059 --> 00:32:01.440 that i can use to be my north star Absolutely. 00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:08.619 And sometimes I talk to business owners and coaches 00:32:08.619 --> 00:32:11.440 and stuff. And sometimes even non -Christians 00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:14.519 approach me about this. And I always tell them, 00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:18.480 okay, if there's anything in the compass that 00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:21.279 you need to really experience, it's the mandate. 00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:27.759 It's exactly that because the rest can really 00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:31.259 be figured out and there are technical But there's 00:32:31.259 --> 00:32:34.920 no shortcut to getting the mandate. It is a God 00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:36.980 revelation. It is something that you need to 00:32:36.980 --> 00:32:39.660 experience because once that is unlocked, once 00:32:39.660 --> 00:32:42.759 that is revealed, it makes your brand unstoppable 00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:45.640 and your life unstoppable as well. And that's 00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:49.779 why it's a masterpiece. Masterpieces don't happen 00:32:49.779 --> 00:32:55.039 overnight. It takes time. Sometimes it gets messy. 00:32:55.220 --> 00:33:00.220 You need to stop, erase, correct, revise. At 00:33:00.220 --> 00:33:05.180 the end of it all, at the end of your life, you've 00:33:05.180 --> 00:33:09.099 painted this picture. And what kind of picture 00:33:09.099 --> 00:33:12.039 have you painted? What kind of masterpiece are 00:33:12.039 --> 00:33:15.900 you letting the world see about your life? Yeah, 00:33:15.940 --> 00:33:21.299 so that keeps me up at night. That's amazing. 00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:25.599 Again, I do really appreciate it. We're running 00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:30.759 low on time. Really appreciate you being on the 00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:34.180 show today. I guess people that listen to the 00:33:34.180 --> 00:33:35.859 podcast with guests, they always know I have 00:33:35.859 --> 00:33:38.920 two final questions that I like to ask every 00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:42.299 single guest. Just to be able to provide us with 00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:44.700 more value that maybe we didn't get that kind 00:33:44.700 --> 00:33:49.400 of gives us a different angle of value in life. 00:33:49.859 --> 00:33:53.599 So when it comes to resources, whether it be 00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:57.369 books, podcasts, videos on YouTube. What's one 00:33:57.369 --> 00:33:59.529 of the top resources you'd usually recommend 00:33:59.529 --> 00:34:05.950 to somebody? Well, for books, especially for 00:34:05.950 --> 00:34:09.469 children's books, I would just promote my book. 00:34:10.720 --> 00:34:15.159 And in the most humble way, literally, because 00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:18.320 again, we've talked about calling and I've realized 00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:22.739 how important our identity in Jesus is. And this 00:34:22.739 --> 00:34:25.139 is exactly why I wrote this children's book. 00:34:25.239 --> 00:34:30.639 It's to help children already discover and accept 00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:36.539 what it means to have an identity found in Jesus. 00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:42.070 And this book... is really it's a family project 00:34:42.070 --> 00:34:45.630 that we did back in the corona time and it has 00:34:45.630 --> 00:34:49.010 its own life it's already been translated into 00:34:49.010 --> 00:34:53.030 German so for the German speaking people there 00:34:53.030 --> 00:34:57.590 you can also have it in German and it talks about 00:34:57.590 --> 00:34:59.849 identity it talks about identity in Jesus and 00:34:59.849 --> 00:35:03.010 I think it's the starting point of you know embracing 00:35:03.010 --> 00:35:08.159 the call of your life so yeah I just got a message 00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:13.599 right before we went on our call. Somebody in 00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:16.360 Cyprus just told me that they got a book and 00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:19.159 then they started to read the book into their 00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:22.820 unborn child because they just found it. It's 00:35:22.820 --> 00:35:28.079 very heartwarming. It's such a big blessing and 00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:32.320 a huge... It humbles my heart so much that our 00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:36.960 book is able to do this. And yeah, glory to God 00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:44.059 for that. And in terms of like... marketing and 00:35:44.059 --> 00:35:48.320 branding books. I really am a big fan of Donald 00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:51.480 Miller and I'm sure he's a very huge figure in 00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:54.360 the United States. So he just came out with a 00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:59.760 book called Story Brand 2 .0 and it's such gold. 00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:02.699 So everything, marketing, messaging, that book 00:36:02.699 --> 00:36:08.199 is really the best to get. And then... Podcast 00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:11.539 -wise as well. Well, I do have my own podcast. 00:36:11.659 --> 00:36:15.460 So it's called Making a Masterpiece where we 00:36:15.460 --> 00:36:18.780 really build your faith and inspire your business. 00:36:18.860 --> 00:36:21.960 So that's literally what our show is about. We 00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:24.920 talk about faith, entrepreneurship, creativity, 00:36:25.380 --> 00:36:27.880 marketing, branding, and all the good things 00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:31.820 in between. So Thomas will be there. I'm excited 00:36:31.820 --> 00:36:36.039 to have you on our show as well, Thomas. Yeah, 00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:42.320 and then in terms of also in practical terms 00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:45.099 of building a brand and growing a business, I 00:36:45.099 --> 00:36:48.039 listen to Craig Groeschel's Leadership Podcast 00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:52.800 and the Amy Porterfield Show. So these are really 00:36:52.800 --> 00:37:00.360 amazing shows that, I mean, you listen to one 00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:03.460 and implement one thing, and I tell you, it changes 00:37:03.460 --> 00:37:07.150 the entire. business so that's how I've also 00:37:07.150 --> 00:37:10.010 managed to grow my own business just applying 00:37:10.010 --> 00:37:13.170 little things from the wisdom of these people 00:37:13.170 --> 00:37:18.300 and yeah I think And of course, there's so much 00:37:18.300 --> 00:37:21.079 more, but those are my favorites. Fantastic. 00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:23.820 I got those all written down. I'm definitely 00:37:23.820 --> 00:37:26.380 going to get those links, hopefully for all of 00:37:26.380 --> 00:37:28.679 them, but definitely for making a masterpiece 00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:31.440 for your podcast. And then I have a masterpiece 00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:35.699 that I mentioned in the intro that I just mentioned 00:37:35.699 --> 00:37:41.070 with you. The final question is... Who do you 00:37:41.070 --> 00:37:42.869 know that I should know? This is a question I 00:37:42.869 --> 00:37:44.949 know you might have heard John Maxwell say before. 00:37:45.210 --> 00:37:48.110 This is one that I've learned is very beneficial 00:37:48.110 --> 00:37:52.170 to me and the podcast. Well, I would say also 00:37:52.170 --> 00:37:55.730 John Maxwell, right? But because we all know 00:37:55.730 --> 00:37:59.389 him and he doesn't need any more promotion. But 00:37:59.389 --> 00:38:04.949 I think I have this friend who I also met in 00:38:04.949 --> 00:38:09.269 South Africa. Our meeting was supernatural. It 00:38:09.269 --> 00:38:14.769 was a divine way of meeting. And she hosts this 00:38:14.769 --> 00:38:19.230 podcast called Talking Purpose. So I think it 00:38:19.230 --> 00:38:21.389 complements so much on the topic of calling. 00:38:21.650 --> 00:38:26.489 And her name is Katie Booth by Kung. And I will 00:38:26.489 --> 00:38:28.710 send you the link to her show. And she's the 00:38:28.710 --> 00:38:32.389 host of Talking Purpose. And she talks about... 00:38:33.180 --> 00:38:37.280 different topics on sustainability, on retail, 00:38:37.579 --> 00:38:43.780 on e -commerce, and a lot of variety of things. 00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:51.480 But she's really, I love what she does and how 00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:55.440 she presents her show and how faithful she is 00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:58.079 in the things that she does. So yeah, I would 00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:01.619 recommend go check her show out. Fantastic. Awesome. 00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:03.380 Yeah, definitely send me the link to that for 00:39:03.380 --> 00:39:08.019 sure. But Norbert, thank you for being on this 00:39:08.019 --> 00:39:10.019 episode of the Procedure of Time podcast. For 00:39:10.019 --> 00:39:12.780 everyone that has been listening, thank you for 00:39:12.780 --> 00:39:15.219 listening to this episode or watching if you 00:39:15.219 --> 00:39:17.280 watch on YouTube. Don't forget to share it out 00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:19.980 on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen. 00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:23.380 Give it a five -star review and we'll see you 00:39:23.380 --> 00:39:25.000 next time. Thank you, Thomas.