What's going on, pursuers?
My name is Thomas Carney.
I'm the host of the Pursuit of Calling podcast, where the goal is to provide you with the
strategies and tools needed to discover and pursue your God-given calling.
In today's episode, I got to sit down with my friend and coaching client, Matt Nimbrogia.
So he has a lawn care business, which is honestly, like you might think, oh, there's so many
of those, but he's doing something really cool.
He wants to branch out into other services and figure out how he can provide more value
to his clients.
So that's what we talked about a lot during this episode or during this session, really,
because we recorded this as a coaching session.
It wasn't recorded as a podcast episode.
So you get to be a fly on the wall to what a coaching session is like with me.
Isn't that pretty cool?
I think it's pretty cool.
So then you get, even though you might have no idea what coaching or life coaching or
whatever kind of coaching is, or what it would be like, now you can have a really good idea.
So buckle up, sit down, might want to take some notes and see in the episode.
Okay.
So you want to focus on solely on the knowing right now.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, okay, and we're focusing on medium, short, long-term.
So what did that, whenever I sent that text earlier, what was your first thought about
that?
Wait, sent a text?
Sent a text about focusing on the medium, medium, short-term, long-term of your long
care business.
Yeah, that works.
Short-term, since it's the end of the season, I think gearing up and getting ready of Facebook
ads, Google ads, and physical ads, like the lawn sign things, I don't know what to call
them.
I think that's going to be like me gearing up for spring.
So I'll probably deploy those either March or late February, early March, late February,
so they're out and I can get eyes on it before the season starts.
So as I'm wrapping up leaf cleanups and everything and little other projects that people ask
me to do.
Do you know what kind of eyes, have you heard advice or heard other people talk about this
lawn, I don't know much about the conversion rate or anything like that of lawn signs.
I mean, they are all over the place, obviously, but do you know like?
I don't know the exact conversion metrics, but definitely from what I'm hearing in different
like Facebook groups that I've joined for like people around the US doing this, it seems
like it is better than door hangers.
Okay.
I mean, that makes sense to get like there's more that gets more eyes on it directly like
a public place and then I think we're going to door hangers surrounding the properties
you already know are good and handy because they see your work.
So I might like buy a few of those and have them handy.
But or maybe like streets of people I know.
And this is we're talking medium term right now.
Medium term slash short term.
Okay.
I think that short term because it's going to be flowing into the season.
Right.
If that makes sense, because like short term right now, I really can't do much.
I'm just still doing jobs and everything.
Right.
Well, that's why I was wondering because if it's short term, my mind is like short term
is like what you can do like, I mean, it's all things you can do now, but it's like what
whenever I say short term, medium term, long term, it's like there are all things you can
do right now.
It's just like, what are you what is it like directed towards?
Is it directed towards short term goal, medium term goal or long term goal?
I definitely start like prepping like Facebook ads or whatever, just like seeing how to format
them and researching that.
Like it might just be my short term goal might just be researching how to market on online
as opposed to like pretty straightforward of putting signs in people's yards or like
public areas.
Right.
Yeah.
And I've definitely heard before and I've seen before, I'm pretty sure if I like plumbers,
stuff like that, where they do that in clients yards.
They ask if we can, if they can put a sign in their yard after you're done.
Right.
Which is good too.
Okay.
I think helps you get into those neighborhoods as well.
A little bit, I guess on a wider basis, just like your door hangers you're talking about.
Right.
I think door hangers are more of like not as big of a priority.
Yeah.
Sorry.
If I mute, I'm going to be typing notes, I just don't want you to hear key clicks.
Okay.
And ruin the audio.
That's fair.
Okay.
So how did, I guess we could have went back and recapped over what we talked about last
week first.
That's probably what we should have did first anyway.
But I know we talked about the Google ads stuff and or the Google listing, not ads,
but the Google listing and how that got taken, how that was like failed, restricted or something.
So do you ever figure that out?
So whenever looking up the number, I could only find that general one and it didn't seem
like whenever you call, it doesn't seem to help and lead to the right place.
So it seems like from what I've read on Reddit and like Quora and like a few other online
presences, it's like how to communicate with them is appealing it.
So I'm not sure what kind of evidence I need to actually provide to appeal it correctly.
So I was just confused on that and that's why I sort of took a step back and was like,
maybe I'm being shown to focus on one thing right now.
Like maybe God was shutting that door for now.
Because that was for the decluttering business.
Right, yep.
Yeah.
Luckily, I'm getting reviews and stuff on my lawn care one and it honestly just might
be God's telling me to step back, slow your roll, focus on this for now.
This is the blessing I gave you.
Like I'm sure like there's odd jobs every now and again, but it might just be Him showing
me to slow down.
I'm not sure if that is or not, but I can still put efforts out there.
And if something comes to fruition, great.
But just like-
Well, I think I like your idea of not spreading yourself too thin.
And if you want to build one thing and make it bigger.
And then like you, I think you've said before, it's not something you want to do forever.
But if it's something that you can figure out how to build and then do that again later,
do you think the same kind of, unless you want to keep going with this, but learn how
to build a business with, you said you like to service on the ground businesses.
So like the things that you're going to learn from doing the lawn care business and growing
that and getting that to a point where you have a team, cause that is a goal, is like
going to translate, this goes to going to translate to whatever other on the ground
business you're going to do.
Right.
And I think that also gives you credibility.
Like once you scale that up, you can use your brand, if you will, or your name to be like,
oh, we're also expanding into this and not shooting a hypothetical hot shotgun and being
like, oh, whatever hits the target.
It seems like it, I'm not focusing on one thing and learning it.
What do you, I guess on that note, what would you think right now?
Right now that like maybe I'm trying to figure it for it, formulate this question.
So you were setting the decluttering to the side and focusing on lawn care with a lawn
care.
Like, what do you think you can be improving on the most with that right now?
Right now, like today?
No, I guess generally like based on what you've done already, what are the things that you
could be improving on as you move forward?
Yeah.
So what I, so how I got into it, my buddy was moving to DC, blah, blah, blah.
He had some clients, I picked them up and then got a few of my own.
So this year I sort of told myself this is a testing year.
Make sure I like it, make sure I'm going the right direction, make sure I'm doing the right
things.
Take it slow for now.
So I wanted to take it slow, but also learn everything and how to do it right.
And I think I am doing it right and pleasing the customers.
I always want them to be informed.
I want to communicate well and I want them to be happy.
So I want that, but I also want to provide them great results.
I want to sell them the product, if you will, the result.
So I think like setting that foundation and making sure ultimately I'm doing it for good
will and not for just profit, because I feel like at first I was like, oh, I just want
money.
But I was realizing graciousness at probably the beginning quarter of it and that really
helped me slowing down and being gracious and seeing this great opportunity.
Back to what I can do now.
After going through each season, I realized that spring, very busy, grass grows very quick.
Summer slows down a lot.
Grass isn't growing as quick.
I mean, it fluctuates during the weather and everything.
And I think having a weather widget on my calendar helped a lot.
Making sure I can balance everything with work since I am working still and the mowing
and also communicating.
So we did spring, summer, and now we're in fall.
Fall is a lot of, it's growing a little bit, but it's a lot of leaves.
And I realized like where we're at, they're going to be flooding the neighbors' lawns
and disposing them and like learning how to handle them really like opened my eyes to
like each season of the service.
I think I really like the leaf aspect.
I think it's really cool.
And it's like, I don't know, it's fun.
It's satisfying blowing the leaves and everything.
And having those tools and just like seeing the green after the blanket of orange.
So I also realized like you don't want to rake that.
The reason you're being hired is because you have the tools to do this more efficiently.
With my backpack blower, it makes the job so much quicker.
And like realizing what tools I have, how to use them.
And I've done like a few cleanups.
So this year was a lot of practice.
Next year, I want to go hard.
I know how many clients I can service.
Spring, summer, fall, I know what to be prepared for.
It's sort of like I jumped in.
I wanted to make sure I had my bearings and then this coming season, I can really go for
it.
I'm going to also ask my buddy who sold the company for advice on like grabbing new clients
and like what else he would do, what he did to grab more clients because he originally
had a lot more scaled back because he was taking college courses.
But I want to hear some ideas from him since he was in the area.
So sorry, that was a cute money trail.
My focus right now, I think that leaves are super important and like so many people ask
for it.
Like it's the least I've ever been asked for for something.
Yeah, sure.
Like mowing lawns, but leaves, no one wants to do that.
I'm talking like normal residents or even residential and commercial.
But yeah, so for leaves, I think my backpack blower can do most of it.
Eventually, I would get like a stand on basically blower.
So you ride this thing and it blows it.
It's actually pretty cool.
Maybe not next season, maybe the season after maybe next season.
We'll see.
Next season would be cool, but I think it's too expensive for what I have planned for
next season or this coming season rather.
So a stand on blower would be cool because it just throws the leaves really well.
And another thing is that we'll touch on later is I'd like to get a truck hopefully, like
not something too expensive, but something that can pull a trailer and everything, which
would also be hand in hand for a leaf box, which you sort of build it and you get a,
so you blow the leaves and then you suck the leaves up into the box and then you dispose
of the leaves.
So that's like the whole idea of the leaf box.
You can use the trailer for that too, depending on like how you build it or you can have like
another trailer, be a leaf box, blah, blah, blah.
I gotcha.
So I was hoping next year I can still use the leaf box with the blowing just because
mulching and bagging takes a little.
If I got the riding lawnmower, I'd have to test how long it would take to mulch that.
I don't think it would be horrible, but I just have to see.
So a leaf box is in the cards possibly next season.
I'd like to get a truck, a trailer and a stand on mower, which it is expensive, but I'm realizing
if I plan it right and I sort of do some jobs now that I can afford these things because
I don't want to take out any loans or anything.
It's something I want to avoid.
I want to build it all like sort of how Dave Ramsey did where he first took out all these
loans.
I'm not doing this part.
He took out all these loans and then basically the market happened and he lost a lot of it
and then he restarted from scratch without any loans or borrowing or any of that.
So I'd like to take that aspect where I work hard, I can pay it in full and it makes sense
to buy it because I just don't want to buy it to be flashy or whatever.
I want it to provide value, save time, either have a better cut so I can charge more or
do more and eventually get stuff for my workers eventually.
I was actually going to ask about that.
Do you have a timeline thought of whenever you want to start looking to hiring other
people?
I think I want to get the ride on mower this season around late spring, early summer and
then probably workers the season after.
Okay, so like two years.
Not this year, but next year because I think I can do it solo.
I want to scale solo this year a lot with clients taking on a few other projects like
the leaves and just odd jobs like mulching and stuff and then having enough for that
stand on mower, a truck and a trailer.
Because if you think about it, with insurance, the truck and the trailer, if I get a worker
the year following, they can work during the day while I'm at work for the time being and
then I can help them once I'm home because I still want to work with the person.
That makes sense.
So I'm ideally looking at what year is that then.
So 2025 is, I'm hoping is a big year.
If God blesses me with that, it should be.
I'd like to get, I think I have 11 clients I counted.
I want to secure one.
I'm sort of in a limbo of a few of them because I want to secure a, not a contract, but a
deal with them that we can do every few weeks.
Like the one guy Jay, he asked for a leaf cleanup.
He said, I'll let you know about hiring you for mowing.
So I need to reach out to him.
I need to solidify a con, like not a contract, but a deal with the one lady and older guy
next to Terrence, which I'm pretty sure she would happily say yes.
I just want to get her on a scheduled routine.
I was mowing it, but it wasn't a scheduled routine.
I'm going to get her on like a routine and I think it will help because it's right next
to my other property.
It won't take any time to drive, pack up or anything.
Did you talk about like, you keep saying not a contract.
Do you like, do we talk about why not a contract already?
I think we talked about that last time.
I don't know if we talked about it, but I also saw something on, I like diving into
this Facebook group because it's people that have experience in it.
Yeah, man.
So they, some people swear by contracts.
I think I would do it for commercial, not for residential because the contract to me,
it's I don't know if it's, it's not losing trust, but you're sort of losing a personal
touch.
Yeah.
The way I've done contract, because personally I've done contracts in the past for coaching
and the way you always, I always put a clause there.
They're always like, the way I like to do it is, and now I'm not saying you have to,
but there's always like a money back guarantee.
If you're not satisfied with the service, but like it, at least you have in writing
in a signature of saying that they're going to pay for the service if it's actually a
good service.
And it just kind of, it's like kind of, you know, dot in the eyes crossing the T's to
make sure that you get, you get what was agreed upon essentially.
And then like, I'm like, I'm probably have my old contract somewhere.
I'm going to spruce it up a little bit and make it into the further pursuit of calling
coaching.
But there's, yeah, there's always the clause of, I, and like if it's a, if I signed up
somebody else for six months, I say you have three months by the end of the third month
to decide whether you want your, whether, if you think by the end of the third month
you haven't got, you're not getting any value, then you get all your money back.
And like for you, it could potentially be like, if you, if I finish and you're not like
here all the time, if you're not satisfied with the service, you get your money, your
money back guaranteed 100%, 100% money back.
And people couldn't have, like, you could think like, oh, people can't take advantage
of that, but I generally think the, you can have more trust in people usually.
Somebody then might be like, I don't like it because I don't like it.
And then just, and then you follow the contract and they go, well, if you don't like it, if
you tell me you don't like it, I'm going to give you your money back and just move on.
Cause that's what the contract said.
And you be the person of integrity with it.
But there's, but it's just like, you lock them into a certain timeframe, essentially.
And you say like, and maybe, and I don't know, again, I've only done it with an online service,
like online service coach, like coaching.
So like when you're on, when you're on the ground, like, and you can still do it digitally
with like, and like if, if they are on paper, depending on the client probably.
But there's, there's definitely benefit to it.
Like I wouldn't do a personally, I like for coaching, I wouldn't do it without a contract.
Like as for paid.
Right.
Yeah.
Because like, especially because most of the people are like, could be in different States,
could be right now, probably stick with the U S but could be in different States and eventually
different countries.
And so I don't necessarily know who they are.
So it's, so it's just a great way to like, like cover, cover all the bases.
I was going to say cover my butt, but like, I'm not trying to do anything.
So that's my two cents on contracts.
Cause I know that you just kept saying that a lot, but like, I think there's, I think
there's probably our pros and cons.
Like you say, you maybe lose the, I don't know if you, I don't know if you necessarily
lose a personal touch.
If you, to say, talk with them about, and you give them, like we talked about before,
like every seventh mode is free and that's in the contract.
Then they know that's guaranteed to them.
That you can't go back on that because it's in, because they signed, they signed it.
Maybe you have something more on it, you sign it and then you can't go back on that either.
Cause it's written on there on a contract and they, and you can always be like, Oh,
I think my brain works in the sense of like, Oh, but technically anybody can do whatever
they, you could technically, they could just don't try to fight it.
And I don't know, whenever I, I told you, but like when I was lost for $4,000 and the
whole, like the biggest reason, I don't know if it's the only reason, the biggest reason
that I understood that I got my money back because they didn't have me sign anything.
And that was like the, and if they would have, maybe it would have been hard.
I don't know that for a fact, but it seems like it would have been harder if I would
have put my signature on something.
If they would have sent me like a docu sign or something like that.
Dogu sign is probably the easiest thing to do, but it is a paid service.
So you can always just print something off and have them sign in person.
But there's probably other ways to do it too for free.
But yeah, like you put everything you're going to do for them and then all the clauses and
things that do cover, like cover the bases.
But it's not just like, so they pay, but it's also so that they can see a guarantee of service
essentially.
That's how I've seen it.
I gotcha.
I just, I don't know, I'd have to look more into it and who does it versus who doesn't
in their reasonings for like my specific lawn care stuff.
Because I've definitely seen posts where it's like, oh, we do contracts, but then other
people are like, we don't do contracts.
You're not sure why yet?
No, I like saw a post and I was like curious on what other people do, but like a contract
is just another thing to sign and I don't want to scare people off.
So I want to see like what would cause someone to scare or have them be scared off.
Yeah.
Then maybe that could be one of the things for homework.
Just do more research on that and see like, yeah.
And if you decide, I mean, if you decide not to, then that's fine.
If you, like, I'm not, you know, I'm not going to be mad about it obviously, but there's,
yeah.
And if you think, yeah, if you decide to do it, that's fine.
If not, that's good too.
If you decide just do it for commercial, I mean, that makes a lot, if you make it, I
mean, do it for commercial does obviously makes a lot of sense, but yeah, cause like
that you can even lock in probably for longer and for more money.
So cause they have more money.
But I don't know if that's good or bad to say, but, but I think it's, I think, I think
it's fine because they're a business and you're giving them probably saving them a decent
amount of money too.
Oh, I don't know about that.
Sorry.
I'm going to hire someone to do it.
Yeah.
Well, they're hiring you to do it, but they don't have to hire any like internal, right.
And anybody internal to work for them or their, or their maintenance people can do other things
and if they have maintenance people.
Yeah.
Cause I don't know, like for people that own like even people that own like apartment buildings,
like holiday park have their own people that mow the grass, but like, I don't, I don't
know if they're work for holiday park or if they're like contracted or not.
I mean, I think they definitely could be contracted.
But like people that have, yeah, just real estate, like probably a cool option too.
Rushing out to like property managers.
Yeah.
Like, or property management companies could be a cool idea too.
I think I'd like to reach out after I get a, like a nice standing mower.
Yeah.
That's for sure.
Yeah.
I don't know that's, I say that's for sure, but I trust you on it.
I think the quality of the cut goes up and like it really shows, like you can see a difference.
I think I gotcha.
I think like those people could tell the difference too.
So I'm just going to run through.
So short term is more of the signs, but it's also, I think I guess short term is also continuing
on with like you said, you've learned that you can do other services more than just lawn
care throughout all the seasons.
And whenever, just a general question, you said, well, let me run through other things
first.
There's the, yeah, doing the short term, medium term was kind of the, I think that's more
the signs unless you would do the signs for your leaves as well.
There's definitely, I think that's definitely, I mean, a shorter season, but could do signs.
But then there's long-term and you said that's just improving your equipment and getting
ready to hire people.
And you're saying like, you want to make sure you can hire, when you hire people, you have
tools for them to use so you can work alongside them.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
Cool.
I've even seen two men people where one is running the weed whacker while the other one's
mowing.
So even if like that's happening, wow, we save up for a second mower.
Yeah.
You know, like a second stand on, but yeah.
So I rated your concentration.
Now you're good.
I was going to say something before, but I wanted to make sure I stayed on the original
train of thought.
Oh yeah.
This is just out of curiosity.
You said during the summer, which makes sense, the grass doesn't grow as fast.
So like, are there other things that you can do during that season to supplement that income?
I'd have to look because I didn't know what to expect.
I never really like, I was like, hmm, what could I do during this time?
Some people let it go.
Like some people will just are like, oh, okay, it's not growing right now and take that time
to relax, let their body recover.
I don't know if there's overseeding or any like actual stuff I can do.
Cause I know like some people will plug for aeration.
I don't know when that is.
I need to like research more about it.
I don't know that is like care.
Yeah.
But I think that's just as I grow in it, you know?
Yeah.
I need to learn more because like a few people have told me that eventually I should look
into how to make those.
Well, this is sort of a thought and also like some people were like, oh, when are you going
to do blah, blah, blah.
But like making a lawn where I can improve it to the point of no weeds in the grass,
having sort of like a luxury looking lawn, if that makes sense.
There's going to be certain clients for that.
There's going to be certain clients for that and certain clients for just lawn mowing.
Like detail work.
Right.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
I like the idea also.
Like there's, this is kind of on topic, kind of off topic, but like I think there's a,
like we talked about the seventh mode was free, but then there's unbelief.
There's also people there that sometime, like you say you've done lawn for free before,
but then there's also people that would just do like the quick, like the side, like, hey,
I just do your sidewalk for free and like the edge your sidewalk or whatever and make
it look really nice and clean it up and show you, and then like just show that, show you
that I know what, and then like they say, yeah, then they say that, you know what you're
doing and see if they're good for you to do the rest.
But the, I don't know, that's, I just see that on social media a lot, right?
You just see people like, I really like those videos, honestly, whenever like, like pressure
washing.
Those are so fun.
The pressure washing videos are so satisfying.
They really are.
Have you ever thought about pressure washing?
That's just a random thought, but.
See, I was totally against it at first, but now as I keep mowing people's lawns and I'm
like doing the sidewalks and everything, making sure they're clean.
Like some clients I'm not even edging, I'm just like string trimming and like making
sure it's not over impeding on the sidewalk, but like you can tell the buildup and how
they need pressure washed.
That's fair.
So like it's very, it's a, it's a very possible thing that I could expand into.
Cause like, yeah, that's just one way you could.
Good.
I was going to say if they're paying for their lawn to look nice, they obviously want other
exterior things to look nice.
Right.
And like that could be a good way to supplement the income during the summer.
Also.
That's very true.
I didn't think that might be good in the summer.
Eventually.
I want to focus first, but.
Yeah.
Hone in on what you want to get really good at these few things first.
And I, how you thought about the winter at all?
The winter, I told my clients I'll do snow removal.
Just text me because I have an attachment for my motor head, which is basically a snow
thrower.
Yeah.
So I definitely do that.
And like some portions I would shovel if it's like gravel or something, you know, but I
think I could use the snow throw for everything.
The attachment I'm pretty sure.
Okay.
So I want to focus on the next season in the winter.
That's what I see a lot of people do.
They focus on that next season, what they're going to improve on and having those goals
and everything set, but also being available for the snow.
Right.
And obviously I'm not doing like huge commercial things with a truck, with a plow and everything,
you know?
That makes sense.
So I'm going to shift gears a little bit because I'm not sure I'm supposed to do something
in a few, but I'm not sure when.
But I'm going to shift gears and I just had a thought of like, this is going to be more
introspective, like more of like the mindfulness stuff.
Like we've done, I guess mindfulness, but also like, I don't know, but it's like more
of a, not really meditation either.
It's just like kind of focusing on what this, like you said, like you wanted to make sure
that you're doing this for the right reasons.
And now that you believe you're doing it by helping others, yeah, like that's why you're
doing it.
You want to help and serve and make people's lawns look nice because it's a nice thing
to do is something they want done.
And it's not just for the income, but even though that is a piece of it.
But there's, I'm curious, because I just got like a thought, a vision in my head of like,
just a happy, like a happy, just a generally happy person, a happy customer.
Like how do you feel generally whenever somebody, whenever somebody like, it's just really happy
with the word they have.
Have you ever had somebody just like, like really satisfied, like over the top?
I think so.
Yeah.
And I feel like guilty taking them sometimes, you know, like you're like, Oh my, like they're
just so kind, I guess.
They're like, I can't believe you did this for me.
You know, I don't know.
Just like the servant heart gets to you and you're like, how can I be taking their money?
But also realizing that you're a business.
Right.
And that it's, it's fine to take money, but like not extort them, you know?
Right.
It's not like not taking more than not asking for more than what this, than what the service
is, service is worth.
Right.
And then you're like, how do you decide what service is worth?
But there's, I mean, there's discussions around that too, but, but there's, but how does that
make you feel guilty?
They make you feel guilty, but how does it like, whenever you see their initial reaction,
like is that, do you only feel guilt?
No, I definitely don't only feel guilt.
Like I feel like it's like whenever you get reassuring words, you know, you feel good.
Like you know, you worked hard and they see it too.
It's like a happy parent sort of thing.
Like you worked hard towards it.
You put that time and effort towards it and they're like, oh my goodness, this looks great.
Yeah.
And like, I want that to be pretty much everyone.
I want everyone to, like some people don't, they don't show that like their emotions
super animated, I guess.
Some people show them as much.
And like the people that don't show them as much, you can tell by like how they look at
it or how they text you or how they say something that you're, you just know that they're satisfied
with it.
Yeah.
If that makes sense.
Like, no, it does.
There's like the very animated people that you know that they're overjoyed.
They're not faking it or anything, but there's also the reserved people that I guess don't
show their emotions as much and you can tell that they're like, oh, that's a weight off
my shoulders that I don't have to do and it looks good.
You know?
I think that's generally like whenever you're thinking at each of these services that you're
doing, you're doing them like you said out of the servant heart.
And I think that's like, we've been talking about that a lot of this time, like what are
the services that you can be doing throughout each season that is part of it is to supplement
the income.
Like we were talking about this also, like what else do these people, what is the next
thing that this person needs?
Right.
What is the next, what is the next thing?
Like what's the next thing?
Next thing after like fall, winter, and what did they need in the winter?
And I use that like you're going to do the snow removal and then what's the next thing
that wasn't winter, it's spring.
But then even during that, but then you can even break it down even smaller, right?
You can be like, what's after snow removal?
Is there, what's next after that?
Is there, is there something next?
Like maybe the answer is, there is no, but I feel like there's always usually something
that could be next in that same realm of the same realm.
Like just like with the, during the summer, what's the next thing that they, I mean, that
could honestly be any time of year, but the next thing during the summer at whenever they,
after the grass cuts, the next thing after the grass cut, like I'm sure you already,
you're already picking up the grass and making sure it actually looks like picking up grass
and taking it away or whatever you do with it.
But then there's pressure washing.
But then after pressure washing, what's the next thing?
It's like, usually like a lot of the time, like with my coaching, I'm working on a value
ladder right now.
Like I like, I was writing up concepts the other day when I was, I was working, I was
doing, I was working, I was working, but I was also like think my mind was, my entrepreneurial
mind was running, but there was the, but just building out the value ladder of like, that
I have to discover your calling.
And the next thing I want to make like a $20 form that's pretty much going to be the same
length, but it's going to be, but it's going to be a $20 farm for pursue your calling.
And it's going to be, I do it by, do it by yourself.
And then there's going to be another option.
And then like, there's going to be like maybe one eventually where you can do it with others.
Do it with like, do one session with me in a particular format.
Like, do it with me looking over your shoulder as you create your, as you work, make your
pursuit plan.
And then there's like, do it with me, directly do it with me on the coaching track.
And each one, like what's the next, like what's the next thing after like, after you discover
they want to pursue, after you pursue like a lot of people want to be held accountable.
And whenever, if they're actually serious and there's other things in between there,
they can break it down.
Like, what's the next thing?
What's the next thing?
But, but, but like the, the thought is like, what is the next thing that you can build
on?
What can you build on top of what you already did?
And like, it's called the value ladder because I'm sure you've heard that term, but like,
like I started with, you start, like you started with free, then you go to your, go to the
20, but for me, the $20 thing, then something maybe for like 50 bucks a month.
And then you just keep, you can keep going up and there's not really a ceiling there.
And for you, I mean, I think generally like, it's like the same concept is there, but like,
maybe these things are more like how could you, you could even package these things in
that way, right?
You could, you could package deals of like, like lawn care, but then you could package
lawn care with pressure washing.
Like what, how do you want to add that?
How do you create that value ladder?
And like, and it's also value for value financially, but it's also like how much, how much value
you're giving.
Like and it's the, I like the concept that Russell Brunson uses.
It's every, everything that you sell should be providing 10 X to value that you're charging
for it.
And he's probably not the only person that he's probably not the first person to say
that.
I think he learned it from somebody else, but I heard it from him.
There was, yeah, that's a lot of food for thought, but like, I want you to like kind
of think about like what, just even if it's like things that you're never going to do,
like what are the things that you could possibly be doing to possibly be doing for these clients?
Cause now you've seen them, you've been on the ground, you know, the things that they
need done, but that's like, what are the things that you're noticing that most, most people
would benefit from?
Not, I think I've been a little exposed to this where it's like the, the, my clients
will ask, Oh, can you help me with this landscaping project?
Like my one client wants me to help with pavers to put around their bird feeder, like different
block and things.
And I think like maybe expanding into landscaping a little and learning that a little more too
would definitely help.
That'd be pretty cool.
And that, that, that could honestly be in the summer.
Like I know it's hot and everything, but like as the grass isn't growing as fast, having
that there, if not like with pressure washing or like even with the winter, I think this
is where the decluttering thing came in is how do I fill that gap?
I know that maybe I'm, maybe this isn't where God wants me right now and doing that, but
like, I can still research it.
I can still help people for free if, if they have something.
But definitely the value ladder would be really cool in the sense where I could do a spring
cleaning.
So it would be decluttering a certain part of your house, pressure washing and like a
first cut of the season, like something like that, like even a bundle type system that
would, that would be pretty cool too.
Yeah, man, that'd be awesome.
Especially like as that spring cleaning and everyone knows what spring cleaning is, you
know?
Right.
Yeah.
That's actually, yeah, that's a really good point.
Yeah.
You don't want to, you don't want, you don't want to name it something that no one has
any idea what it is, like my original podcast.
Even though it was a lot of fun.
I was about to wear that shirt today.
Oh, you should have.
I should just text everybody that has, has technically short merch and just have everybody
wear it on like the same Sunday.
That'd be sweet.
And then everyone was like, what's this?
Why is everybody wearing this stuff?
I'm like, well, just Thomas has a podcast.
And I have to get the whole church to listen to my podcast.
But now that technically short isn't like a thing anymore.
No one wears the merch anymore besides me.
So I'm like, I'm like, man, I'm like, I want to, I want to get, I want to get more merch
going, but I don't know if I'm, yeah, it's like, it's like, it's like, that's my thing
of spreading myself too then.
Right.
I'd have to probably hire somebody to help me out with that or, you know, just wait till
I actually have the time.
But the hiring somebody would be nice too though.
But all right, man.
So for next, for next session, which do we, are we, we're sticking with two weeks?
Yeah, we can do next time on Sunday.
This week I was hoping to, because long story short, I was going to take on a project on
Sunday.
I'm going to do some more and then some Sunday.
Long story short.
Yeah, no worries.
Okay.
So we'll do two Sundays from now.
I'm trying to get my calendar to come up, but it's not, oh wait, I don't want, I already
have it up over here.
So bring up the monthly month view and today's.
So that would be, oh, that's the 23rd.
Okay.
Oh no, that's the 24th.
And then Thanksgiving is the 2028th.
Okay.
Yeah.
I don't know why that's not showing up on my calendar, but I know it's there.
Okay.
Yeah, that should be fine.
That should work well.
Wait.
What?
So I've, sorry, I wanted to look at my calendar too.
I have Thanksgiving with my grandparents that day.
Could we do later in the day?
Yeah.
Because that's usually like after church until four or five and then I'd drive home.
Okay.
Yeah, that's fine.
Yeah.
Okay.
I just want to make sure it's good with you.
Yeah.
I'm just writing something down real quick.
I was actually pretty excited about this job because like, it's going to be like one of
those transformation jobs because it is not pretty.
So I'm excited for it because I get to trim some trees slash bushes down, do some leaf
removal and then cut the grass.
It will be a lot though.
So that's why I wanted to block off like a Sunday so I can work straight through it as
the sun is not on my side whenever I get home from work.
Yeah, fair.
Okay.
So for next time, we're saying you're looking into the contract and you're going to start
looking into different concepts that you could possibly be adding into like a value ladder
type deal.
So we want to do the value ladder stuff.
And then I was also going to probably draft up either signs.
Okay.
See, I can like bring them to next time and see how you think they look.
Yeah.
Advertising like yard signs.
And then we can do value ladder stuff and also contracts and see like the pros and cons
of what people do in the industry.
Sounds good to me.
There's always something you can improve on in the industry.
Like if everyone doesn't do it, it might not be for me, but there also could be a crack
or somewhere, a foothold where maybe it is good for me and maybe I can turn around like
contracts, you know, like making fun.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
I think that is everything.
Yeah, make sure.
Well, actually, one last question.
This is something I just thought of since I think it's probably in my head because we're
doing it over a video.
I wanted to ask you, this is a question I would ask all my past coaching clients and
I'm really happy actually popped in my head just now because it's something my coach would
ask me and that's why I was asking my clients.
From our session today, what would you say your top three takeaways would be?
Top three takeaways?
I think the short, medium, long, that's probably three because it sort of expands your view.
Yes, you want to get this done for next time, this done for next time, and then you have
the medium where it's like you're going to implement it in a few months, but then you
have the more longer term where it's like this is my vision.
This is what's going to happen if God allows.
And I'm not going to rank them.
That's one of the takeaways.
Do you want me to rank them?
No, no.
Okay.
Another one of the takeaways, I think I really liked the idea of, I sort of thought about
it a little, but you fleshing it out and like what services could I provide to help others
in the seasons where something may be slower and the bundling of things.
I thought that was another good takeaway.
And then my last one, let me think.
Oh no, I really like the value ladder type thing.
I think that's like a good thing to do.
What that is generally is it's like a, that's how you gain trust with your clients.
You start them off with the, you start off with a lower tier, like not as expensive service
or product.
And then you go to offer some something more expensive because they, and they, some more
expensive, they get more value out of it and they trust you.
So that's not like you're some Joe Schmo off the street trying to charge them like buko
bucks for this service and they have no idea who you are.
And so like that, but if they already know you, they have paid for your cheaper services
before, they can then know that they can trust you again with something more expensive.
And then, and that just keeps going up the ladder.
Another thing with that is like, they know you'll provide if, if you're paying them this
upfront or after whatever you do, knowing that, that they'll provide.
I know my last takeaway.
I think my last takeaway is I like what you said about in the contract, the whole thing
of what I said of being fearful of them being fearful of a signing something else.
But I liked where you said adding the seventh Mo's free thing.
Yes, you'll have the punch card, but having that in there, it's an incentive for them
to sign it.
They're gaining something from the contract.
It's not just like, Oh, I have to sign this thing and not sell my soul, but it's like,
what am I even getting out of this as the client?
What am I getting out of signing the contract?
Sort of having that reassuring Sherman in the contract, which I learned.
And that's what I want to like research more about the contract and everything, because
it might be a good idea.
It doesn't have to be this big illegalese contract either.
Like you can say something that can actually like read through in like a few minutes.
And there's no mini font somewhere in hiding a clause that they have to pay you like triple
the amount if they don't do whatever.
So yeah.
So well, that was a good take away.
I'm happy you were able to get some value today.
I think sometimes I just have to like think on think and reflect.
So that's why I took my last one a little bit.
No, you're good, man.
You're good.
Oh man, I appreciate it.
I talk later.
See ya.