1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,080 How's it going, guys? 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:10,920 Welcome to this episode of the Pursuit of Calling podcast with me, your host, Thomas 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:12,140 Carney. 4 00:00:12,140 --> 00:00:17,920 In this episode, I got to sit down with Cole Zimmerman, and we talked a lot about the creative 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,740 space because, you know, he's a creative guy. 6 00:00:21,740 --> 00:00:26,680 And he works for Amplified Church part-time that also has a lot of his own side businesses 7 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,240 going on with his wife and on his own, which is really cool. 8 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:36,480 We also dive into the difference between knowledge and wisdom. 9 00:00:36,480 --> 00:00:42,520 And if you guys would be so kind to share this episode out on your Instagram, Facebook, 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:47,920 wherever you listen to the podcast, give it a five star review and give us a comment. 11 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,800 But before we dive in, I want to ask you to send me a message. 12 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:56,560 If you have any questions or you want me to talk on a particular topic, or you just want 13 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:02,400 to say some encouraging words, you can do so on Instagram or via the email that is listed 14 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,920 in the show notes of this episode. 15 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:05,920 Thank you. 16 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:06,920 And let's dive in. 17 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,920 Hey, Cole, how's it going? 18 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:10,920 Great. 19 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:11,920 How are you? 20 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:12,920 Doing good. 21 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:13,920 Doing good. 22 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:14,920 Yeah, guys. 23 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:23,160 So you heard Lee a couple of episodes ago recommend Cole Zimmerman for the podcast. 24 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:24,560 And so here he is. 25 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:25,560 Here I am. 26 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,080 All my glory here. 27 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,320 So we were just getting catching up below or not even catch up. 28 00:01:33,320 --> 00:01:37,800 We were getting like maybe just having a conversation beforehand because we've never really like 29 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,760 had a full conversation for this before about other guests I've had on before. 30 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:46,640 But like, no, like we're getting to know each other a little bit. 31 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,160 And for people that don't know you that well, who's Cole Zimmerman? 32 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:51,160 Who am I? 33 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,040 That is not the question. 34 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,800 I am an artist, I'm a videographer. 35 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:57,960 I am a Christian. 36 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:03,000 I work at Amplify that we know each other through church. 37 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:11,400 I'm the videographer there doing social stuff, video projects in service, you know, big stuff 38 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:12,400 like Christmas or whatever. 39 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,800 But then I also do that on the side. 40 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:21,840 My wife and I shoot weddings together and I do freelance stuff like ads, whatever. 41 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:29,800 Yeah, I'm kind of all over the place, but all creative things, lots of lots of video 42 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:30,800 all the time. 43 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:31,800 So yeah, thanks. 44 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:40,680 And it's like whenever we first were messaging back and forth, that's like the one that's 45 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:41,680 what you focus on. 46 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,560 You're like you're the creative, you're a creative person. 47 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:50,240 Yeah, that's like where all of your like, you just said, like, that's like, that's everything 48 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,920 that you do even for money for a living, like that's where it's there even for to serve 49 00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:55,920 and do it for free. 50 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:58,240 Like that's like that's what you want to do. 51 00:02:58,240 --> 00:02:59,240 Yeah. 52 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:05,400 And like we all have like a reason behind why we do what we do. 53 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:06,400 Right. 54 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:11,720 We all have like, I like to think that that's kind of like the push forward or the call 55 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,840 that we have in our lives and like that pushes us to do these certain things, the passions 56 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:16,840 that we have. 57 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:21,280 We believe that Christians, they come from God. 58 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:26,840 And like with this podcast being the pursuit of calling, what inspired you to like be that 59 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,840 creative person? 60 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:35,440 Yeah, I feel like it was never even like a second thought that like when I was a kid, 61 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:43,260 like my mom is an artist too, like she works in like glass mosaic art and like painting 62 00:03:43,260 --> 00:03:46,580 and like watercolor and she just she's crazy. 63 00:03:46,580 --> 00:03:50,720 So like I was always around it growing up and like from a very young age, I was always 64 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:58,160 just like, you know, I felt drawn to drawing. 65 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:04,800 I felt drawn to art and I started like when I was a kid, I got really into like traditional 66 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:09,080 like studio art, like drawing and painting and like sculpture and stuff like that. 67 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:15,920 And then when I was like, I think it was like 14, 15, something like that. 68 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:21,720 I got my first camera and I got into photography in like early high school and then that transition 69 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:22,920 into video. 70 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:27,120 And then it just really kept snowballing. 71 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:32,520 And there just there was never a point in my life where I was like, I can't picture 72 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:37,560 doing something other than this, like for a living or doing something else for a living. 73 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,720 I would always be doing this on the side if I couldn't make it a living. 74 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:46,840 So I feel very grateful and very lucky that I have been able to, I guess, monetize it, 75 00:04:46,840 --> 00:04:48,360 that it is literally all that I do. 76 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,920 Like like you said, like for a living and, you know, for fun and like to serve the church 77 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:53,920 and everything. 78 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,800 It's just pretty much all day every day in some capacity. 79 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:03,320 I'm doing something creative here or there. 80 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:09,160 But yeah, I guess there just never was another another option for me. 81 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,520 It's pretty cool. 82 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,960 I can relate to that to it in a different way. 83 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:24,800 Because like my for me, it was never like I have this entrepreneurial mind and I feel 84 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,120 like you have that too with like all your side businesses and other like something you 85 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,960 do by yourself and with your wife. 86 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,640 But I've had that maybe this has been maybe in like the last five, six years of my life. 87 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,160 I mean, like I've been like, yeah, I really want to start a business. 88 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:44,440 And even in college, like maybe I'll do freelance at some point. 89 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,560 I did for a little bit like we were talking about before. 90 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,440 But I've always been like I've always been like I want to have my own business or try 91 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:56,200 to do something on the side, something that's not just my job. 92 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:04,200 And that's like a and for me, like I've sat on the podcast before is this like being a 93 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,440 life coach is really what I want to do. 94 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,480 I think that's interesting. 95 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,600 Like I'm an app developer, so it's a weird like it's a weird kind of thought. 96 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,800 Yeah, that pipeline is pretty narrow. 97 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:27,160 But like it's like I've but I came across that and becoming a life coach and a very 98 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:32,640 like for me with a step by step process to find like that's what I want to do. 99 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,240 But entrepreneurial side was always there. 100 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:38,000 I mean, this podcast, I try to use it at like to feed that part of me to do something that's 101 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,280 a little bit more than my do something more than in my job, eventually as a stepping stone 102 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:44,520 into a larger business. 103 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:49,560 But it's also a like my goal is to like to serve to help people. 104 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:55,200 And that's kind of what this I know that's kind of like what I believe like the purpose 105 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,320 of a business is is to serve and to help people. 106 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,920 So I know I'm kind of going off on a tangent, but I just like that you're like it's always 107 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:04,920 kind of been with me. 108 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:06,240 It's always been what I wanted to do. 109 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:14,640 And and like, I don't know, I just find that really interesting because like, I don't know, 110 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,160 I don't know if I don't know if mine was with me the whole life, you know, it might have 111 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,160 been like, I remember like, like, hey, there's a computer store may have a computer store 112 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:23,160 one day. 113 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,560 Yeah, it's like all these just random thoughts can my dad had a carpenter, it does has his 114 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:27,560 own business. 115 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,160 So it's always been like, I know it's possible. 116 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:31,720 No, it's a thing. 117 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:37,240 Yeah, I do feel like you said, like, it might have always been with you, but you weren't 118 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:38,240 aware of it. 119 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:45,360 I feel like obviously, this is not a hot take among Christians pursuing their calling. 120 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,840 But it's like all of the pieces are lining up throughout your whole life to then bring 121 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:54,720 you to this point to then put you in the position to be like, oh, like, I want to become a life 122 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,920 coach or like, I want to have, you know, a podcast to like have these conversations and 123 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:05,320 like, you know, building up that part of your personality and your interests. 124 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:13,280 But yeah, I it's very easy now that like I am a full time like videographer and creative, 125 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,720 that it's very easy to say like, oh, this was always what I was going to do. 126 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,560 And that is half true that it was always what I wanted to do. 127 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,240 But it was I didn't always believe that like this was actually going to pan out. 128 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,680 I was like, I'm going to have to get a real job at some point. 129 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,440 Like I can't just take videos all the time. 130 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:37,280 But yeah, like I'm very grateful that I have kind of fallen into these situations that 131 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:43,120 I feel like God has like placed these opportunities in my life to then I've been able to capitalize 132 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:44,120 upon. 133 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,040 Yeah, you know, so it's fun. 134 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,720 That's really cool. 135 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:55,880 I guess you kind of talked about it, but let's go more in depth of like, like how is pursuing 136 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:01,400 that part of your life like, well, actually, first, I have this in the notes, so I apologize. 137 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:08,360 But the we're talking about calling like what part of this like how would you define your 138 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:09,360 calling? 139 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:10,360 In a sense? 140 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:11,360 Yeah. 141 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:17,600 I mean, this is pretty cut and dry, but I feel like at the basic level, it's just to 142 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:18,600 create. 143 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,080 I feel like I I didn't. 144 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,400 Well, little context to this first. 145 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,600 I didn't grow up Christian like my parents aren't. 146 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,480 They're just like agnostic, I guess. 147 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:32,840 They're like not practicing. 148 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,760 So then I fell. 149 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:43,120 I was invited to youth group and then I kind of, you know, became Christian and like, you 150 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,000 know, started building a relationship with Jesus in like middle school. 151 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:51,120 So I even like as a kid, I wasn't like this is something this is a passion that like God 152 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,200 has put inside me because I didn't know that then. 153 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,720 But then as I especially growing up through high school and then like going to college 154 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:04,920 and everything, I'm like developing that understanding more so. 155 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:10,560 But yeah, all I have to say, I feel like I've always had like an innate like passion and 156 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:11,960 interest in like creating. 157 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:20,320 And now I can like articulate that as like when I see like, I don't know, the when I 158 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:28,240 see the beauty of the earth around us, it's such a like. 159 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:29,240 I don't know. 160 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:30,240 It's kind of a tangent. 161 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:36,440 But I feel like nowadays with everybody on social media, everybody's taking pictures 162 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:37,800 on their phone all the time. 163 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:44,440 It is you're trying to translate this experience that you're experiencing to then share it 164 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:45,440 with people. 165 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:50,520 Which is obviously a great thing for the most part. 166 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:56,920 And I feel like that has always been a part of my creative, like passion of like, I'm 167 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:03,040 seeing these things around me and I want to capture that in the most beautiful way to 168 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:09,560 then translate that and like evoke that emotion again, if that makes sense. 169 00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:17,720 And that applies to like mainly or primarily video for me, but also like creating art, 170 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:26,000 creating a painting that is in line with just making people feel emotions. 171 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:37,800 And I always say that like being a creative and a Christian is kind of it's like a what's 172 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:42,640 the word, it's like a fleeting exercise that like you're trying. 173 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:52,240 You're always trying to create something beautiful when you will never get to the the innate 174 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,760 beauty of the actual creator. 175 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:56,760 Like he is. 176 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,200 I said that in a weird way. 177 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:05,720 But like especially creativity in the church is like I'm always trying to create beautiful 178 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:12,040 things that are representative of like his grace and his glory and like the culture of 179 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:13,040 heaven. 180 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,440 But I know that that is not is never going to be close to what it actually is like. 181 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,840 So it's always forever chasing that. 182 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,240 Like how can I make this more accurate? 183 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:23,800 How can I make this more beautiful? 184 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,360 How can I make XYZ, you know, whatever. 185 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:35,360 And it's that like you're always chasing that always like perfecting the craft more. 186 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,960 But so in some ways it's like I know I'm not going to get there. 187 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:45,160 You know, I know I'm never going to make anything that looks anything close to like what he 188 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:46,160 has created. 189 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,920 But it is that like chase that like keeps it going. 190 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,840 You know, yeah, there is. 191 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:59,400 I've kind of like we did a I don't know if we did it on perfection, but we definitely 192 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,840 talked about it before on the podcast. 193 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:08,880 So like, yeah, Sean and I talked about like perfection and like excellence. 194 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:13,200 We're like a whole series on excellence a while ago. 195 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:21,200 And like what we the way we kind of said the same thing you just said in the fact of trying 196 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,520 to like reach the perfection that is God. 197 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,280 Yeah, but like like for me, it's like you're never going to reach that. 198 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,820 You're never going to be perfect as God is perfect. 199 00:13:31,820 --> 00:13:37,080 But like you can. 200 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:38,560 That's something you could strive for. 201 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:41,840 That's something you can like continuously like there's like there's no ceiling to your 202 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:43,840 improvement at that point. 203 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:44,840 Yeah. 204 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:46,680 Which I find is very encouraging. 205 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:48,400 Yeah, like there's no ceiling. 206 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:52,440 You're never going to like there's never going to be a time where you where you where you 207 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:53,440 won't be able to grow. 208 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:54,440 Yeah. 209 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,240 Where you you peak and then that's it. 210 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,080 It's like it's only downhill from here. 211 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,000 Yeah, like that doesn't happen. 212 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,320 Yeah, it is. 213 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:07,320 It is such a double sided coin because it is like if you are like a perfectionist or 214 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:13,160 you're striving for perfection or like pure excellence on one hand, it's like you won't 215 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,900 be perfect and you need to grasp that. 216 00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:24,160 But also like perfection is the the path to greater excellence and quality in whatever 217 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:25,160 you're you're doing. 218 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:31,040 And that translates like writes back to what you were saying, like you're like you can 219 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,120 always and I don't know if you're trying to like oh how can I I don't know if you think 220 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,120 of how can I improve what I did in that last painting or if you're just like how can I 221 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,080 just keep making beautiful things? 222 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:42,080 Yeah. 223 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,400 Yeah, it it's a little bit of both. 224 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:51,440 Like there are in every medium, I guess, you know, photo or video or design or painting 225 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:58,240 or like anything that any creative person does, it's like each time you create something, 226 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:04,280 it is like a it's a vulnerable experience of like I'm making this thing that I think 227 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,440 is good with the skills that I have and then I'm putting out in the world and saying, hey, 228 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:09,440 do you like this? 229 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:10,440 Yeah. 230 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:11,920 And like people either do or don't. 231 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:12,920 Yeah. 232 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:17,920 But so it's like that experience is like is always how it goes. 233 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,960 And every time I like deliver a wedding video, I'm like, well, this was their this is their 234 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:23,960 wedding day. 235 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:24,960 This is it. 236 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,360 And if they don't like it, there's nothing I can do because I just missed that shot or 237 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:29,360 whatever. 238 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:30,360 So I'm always nervous about that. 239 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:39,360 I'll just say it like that creative experience is also each time you make something, you 240 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:46,160 are building up the skills and the little putting little things in your toolbox on how 241 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,160 to do that next time. 242 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:57,120 And I always say to people like especially in like wanting to get into video of they're 243 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:03,200 like, oh, like what's like the best, you know, like YouTube channel to watch for tips or 244 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:04,200 like what should I do? 245 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,360 Like read a book on like blah, blah, whatever. 246 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:08,360 Like what are your resources? 247 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,320 And I'm like, you literally just have to go out and do it like you have to shoot and you 248 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,200 have to get comfortable with a camera and have to get comfortable editing because there's 249 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:17,800 so many things. 250 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:25,760 It's such a wild like I'm sure you can relate to this with like development, too, that like 251 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:31,600 looking back, like I just edited a video this morning and I'm like, I am doing this like 252 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,280 30 percent faster than I could have a year ago. 253 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:43,560 And then like before that even and like every little experience is like adding a skill on 254 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:54,320 like, oh, well, now next time I know how to do this faster or I sorry, I whenever I'm 255 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,480 like trying to capture a shot and I'm like, oh, I in my mind, I'm like, I want it to look 256 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:03,520 like this before or like when I was just starting out, it's like I don't know actually how to 257 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,080 get there and how to make this look better. 258 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:12,400 But now and this will continue to go on as we were just saying, the more I strive for 259 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:19,280 perfection, like I have all of these little skills and I'm like, I can combine that with 260 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:25,640 this and then this will get me closer to that ideal vision in my head, which I still won't 261 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:26,640 reach. 262 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:31,600 And but it's just it's a compounding experience. 263 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,720 You know, each time you make something, you know, which is that's part of the fun, but 264 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,560 it's also frustrating sometimes. 265 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:45,760 Yeah, I think like one thing you mentioned about you watching YouTube video and then 266 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:50,360 like you try to make exactly what they made and then you get discouraged because it doesn't 267 00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:51,360 look like what they made. 268 00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:52,360 Yeah. 269 00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:54,880 Or you make or you try to make exactly what they made and it looks exactly what they made, 270 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:55,880 but then it's not yours. 271 00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:00,240 Yeah, that's very true. 272 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:05,000 I think like you mentioned development, like in the development space, it's very it's like 273 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,640 you can follow what they do in order to learn the tools. 274 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:14,680 But like what you're saying also is like in order to really learn that skill, you kind 275 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:16,640 of just like pick a project. 276 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:21,440 You're like, hey, I'm going to build a Twitter clone and just do it. 277 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:22,440 Yeah. 278 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,360 And like maybe you have to like you get some research as tons of ways to like figure out 279 00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:28,320 how to do things you want to do and multiple different ways to do it. 280 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:32,040 Right. 281 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,400 And like you'll get to a point and then like you'll learn more things. 282 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,320 You're like, oh, wait, why would that so like why is this running so slow? 283 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,800 And you're like, you can figure out what you figure out what piece of code is making that 284 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,640 tweet, not post as quickly as it should or something like that. 285 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:47,640 Yeah. 286 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:55,240 And that's one thing you get flack for a lot whenever with apps is like reaction time. 287 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:56,240 Yeah. 288 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:04,560 And the I like that you brought that up because there's a lot on this whenever I talk about 289 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:12,000 calling with a lot of people on the podcast, like and rightfully so people talk about like 290 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,200 like the innate like underbelly. 291 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:20,440 It's like the underbelly, but like the underside, it's like the I don't know the innermost part 292 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:21,640 of like what you're doing. 293 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,840 It's not it's not just like the physical. 294 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:28,880 It's not like it's not just like you said yours is to create, which is like actually 295 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:37,040 like that's the it's like an eight piece to actually taking a picture and like doing the 296 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:38,520 things that you do with it. 297 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:46,160 Like I I've heard other people say like it's like from a Christian sense, it's like everyone's 298 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:51,480 like calling in a sense is to create because we are created by a creator in his image to 299 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,080 go out and do certain things. 300 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:55,080 Yeah. 301 00:19:55,080 --> 00:20:03,280 But like I know it's I lost my train of thought again. 302 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:04,280 Yeah. 303 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:05,280 Yeah. 304 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:14,320 It is interesting because it's like I like I said, like creating in any capacity is always 305 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:22,200 like what I am thinking of, but now it's like I won't. 306 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:23,200 Sorry. 307 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:28,080 I believe that God has put that in me and he's put like the technical skills in me as 308 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:29,080 well. 309 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:39,720 But now as I go on, like I am picking up like the physical tools to then translate that 310 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:40,720 in the real world. 311 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:41,720 Yeah. 312 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:46,320 And that's why I can't like stick like videos, my main thing, like in terms of my job, but 313 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,760 I can't stick to one medium because I'm like, well, I want to try this. 314 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,600 I want to try watercolor and I want to do this and I want to shoot photo and I want 315 00:20:53,600 --> 00:21:01,440 to do graphic design and all these things and like creating in different ways and like 316 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:02,440 scratching that itch. 317 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:10,280 And like like when I complete a video project for church or whatever it may be, that is 318 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,840 like a totally different, which this might sound silly, but it's a totally different 319 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:22,280 like part of my mind than like when I like paint something that it's like that's a whole 320 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:29,240 different side of creating to me. 321 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:35,760 But yeah, it's just it's always always scratching that itch and it's never never going to go 322 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:36,760 away. 323 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:37,760 Yeah. 324 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:38,760 Stop itching. 325 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:45,600 Yeah, it's yeah, I think what we're talking about is like it's the like it comes up in 326 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:50,960 other episodes, but it's the extra we're talking about the external representation of what 327 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:51,960 our calling is. 328 00:21:51,960 --> 00:22:00,440 And like for me, I feel like my like my in my I believe my calling is like the is to 329 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:06,400 serve it's just it's kind of like I see in this podcast description of this podcast. 330 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:12,120 It's like to provide people with the tools they need to like pursue their calling or 331 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:14,000 like better or better their lives. 332 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:19,040 And like this podcast, I'm using that as a piece of that to be external. 333 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:20,040 That's why I want to be a life coach. 334 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:25,200 And like that's why I really I prefer if I can talk with somebody one on one and just 335 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,920 have a conversation with them, my mind's like working of like not trying to like trying 336 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:34,520 not to be like, oh, you're doing all these things wrong, but like that seeing the potential 337 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,920 in somebody and then like even just having a conversation with them about how they can 338 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,960 live in that potential. 339 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:49,320 And that's like and so everything that I'm doing, everything I'm trying to do now in 340 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,520 some way, I want to work towards that. 341 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:57,760 I want to work towards building that up and like use all these different ways to be creative. 342 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:04,720 Like it's the innate, it's the external representation of that they're all different, but they're 343 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,480 all the external representation of what you're in. 344 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:12,200 Like it's not just create something for a particular purpose. 345 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:25,160 And like, yeah, like and based off of our conversation, you can comment on what I said 346 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,120 or answer this question. 347 00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:36,680 But based off of this conversation that we've had like, or are still having like, what kind 348 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,440 of like if you're ready to talk, be talking directly to the listener right now, what kind 349 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:46,520 of like advice would you give them if they're trying to like we were talking about building 350 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:52,520 a skill that pertaining to our calling or something like how do you know that? 351 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,720 Why did you like you say it was always with you, but like, how do you know? 352 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,280 Yeah, I mean, that's a fair question. 353 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,040 Like I said, like it's easy now for me to say that. 354 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:09,920 And it's like, I would be lying if I said that I never doubted that like I would end 355 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:11,640 up here. 356 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,360 Yeah, it's it's interesting. 357 00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:16,880 I am very grateful. 358 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,680 I just for for context. 359 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:25,800 I so like I said, I started doing like photo and then like video in high school. 360 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,480 And then I was like, OK, like this is something that I really want to pursue. 361 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:35,600 And I remember I had a conversation with my mom when I was in high school that I was like, 362 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:42,400 even if I have to like if I can't find a job in a creative field and I have to do, I don't 363 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,560 know, whatever, that's not necessarily creative, creatively fulfilling. 364 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:51,440 If that's my day job, I'm never going to stop doing this. 365 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,720 And so then I went to school. 366 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:59,680 I went to Pitt for film production and then when I was there and then I started coming 367 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,840 to amplify and then I eventually started working in amplify almost four years ago now. 368 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,700 There's like twenty twenty. 369 00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:13,200 And then that was my first like hands on professional experience in video production. 370 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:21,360 And then even like it's crazy to look back in the past four years, like some of the videos 371 00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:25,800 that I was turning in, I was like, this looks very bad. 372 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:33,940 I was like, I'm just so grateful for like the opportunities that I've had and the development 373 00:25:33,940 --> 00:25:36,800 that I've had through that. 374 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:46,080 And then I'm I'm not getting to your question directly, but essentially I. 375 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,920 So right now I want to attend. 376 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,400 It was can you restate the question? 377 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,880 I was I was like, I need this context in my mind and then I forgot what my last thing 378 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,600 was going to be essentially. 379 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,280 What advice would you give to the listener right now? 380 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:00,280 Yeah. 381 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:01,280 They have our conversation. 382 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:02,280 Yeah. 383 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:10,440 I mean, especially in the I'll just speak to the creative field, because that's what 384 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,160 I know the most about. 385 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:17,800 Like I said, like you just have to constantly be creating and you have to constantly be 386 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:26,080 like refining what your creative voice is and learning the technical skills to like 387 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,480 translate what you're thinking. 388 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:39,560 So it it is a hard market to like break into, especially if you are trying to like build 389 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:44,000 your own business and like, you know, like my wife, Ashley and I do. 390 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,200 Like I said, we do wedding photo and video together. 391 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:54,640 And that is something that kind of just fell into our lap that like we just connections 392 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,400 through church were like, hey, you do photo at the church like you do. 393 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:00,540 Can you shoot my wedding? 394 00:27:00,540 --> 00:27:03,880 And then like it kind of snowballed. 395 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:12,240 And it it's just one of those things that like you have to always be creating for yourself 396 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:19,800 and for your portfolio and for the people around you to see your skill. 397 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:20,800 Yeah. 398 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:32,640 But yeah, even not necessarily when it comes to like tangible creative things, whenever 399 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:41,160 you like figure out what your calling is, it is one of those things that like once you 400 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:48,120 like fully dial in on it and you feel that it's like there isn't there isn't another 401 00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:52,720 option like I kind of said that earlier, but it's like one of those things of like I'm 402 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:59,640 when you fully realize what your calling is, what your passion is, it is so like central 403 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:00,920 to who you are. 404 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:09,560 And even if it isn't like your job, like you just have to fully press into that. 405 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:15,440 Because even if you don't and you don't pursue that in some capacity, like that's not going 406 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:16,440 to go away. 407 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:22,840 I don't think like if I had a different job and I was never creating anything, I would 408 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,680 be a lot less happy than I am right now, because it's like that is something that I feel like 409 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,880 God has put inside of me. 410 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:35,280 And it in that sense would be like wasted potential on like what I feel like I was designed 411 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:44,480 to do and the skills that I enjoy, you know, exercising, stuff like that. 412 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,720 But yeah, very practically. 413 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:54,080 You just have to you just got to do it, which I know is not entirely helpful sometimes. 414 00:28:54,080 --> 00:29:03,720 But yeah, creatively specific with the creative field, you you can watch as many movies as 415 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:09,960 you want, but until you know how to do it hands on yourself, that doesn't mean anything. 416 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,640 Yeah, in my opinion. 417 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:17,240 No, I think that makes a lot of sense. 418 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:26,320 It's interesting because like, I mean, this is just like the like the character of the 419 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:27,320 podcast. 420 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:32,800 I've like, I don't know how many times like that's that kind of thing happens. 421 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:39,680 Like what Lee was kind of said in a certain way of like, like he was like failure is the 422 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,760 only failure is not starting. 423 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,240 And it's good. 424 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,080 And that's essentially what you were saying. 425 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,120 Like like you're like, you have to actually do it. 426 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:51,120 Yeah. 427 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:58,920 If you want, I like this one thing that John Maxwell has said, he we get asked to quit, 428 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,080 like we will ask him like how they can start writing books. 429 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,760 And he asked them, they write and they say no. 430 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,720 And he's like, well, they're step one. 431 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,040 And like, he's like, well, you're right. 432 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,040 You're right. 433 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,040 That's it. 434 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:13,040 Yeah. 435 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,240 Yeah, it's I saw, I forget where this was from, but this is stuck with me. 436 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,080 And it essentially is echoing the same thing that we've already said. 437 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:25,680 But I think it was this was years ago, it was some director who was asked a similar 438 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,040 question. 439 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,800 And he was like, you can research if you want to build a house, you can research as much 440 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:36,600 as you want on materials and like structure and zoning and all of these things you need 441 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:37,600 to know. 442 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:44,240 But until you actually go out and do it, like you're not going to you're not going to know 443 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,760 what to do when you run out of nails until you actually are in that position and you 444 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,120 have to scramble and pivot and stuff like that. 445 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,120 Yeah. 446 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:59,760 And yeah, it's just one of those things that like there are there are tons of people that 447 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,320 know more than me, obviously. 448 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,480 That's you can quote me on that. 449 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:16,880 But there are also I don't know, you can know as much as you can research on something you 450 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:23,640 can especially nowadays you can watch hours of YouTube videos and whatever on the best 451 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,480 settings for the Sony FX3. 452 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:26,840 And this is the lens you should buy. 453 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,360 And this is the monitor you should buy. 454 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,280 And if you do that and you shoot in 60 frames per second, then it's going to look good. 455 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,960 And it's like you need you need to be comfortable with the camera and know what you're doing 456 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,640 for it to look good. 457 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:46,640 And I don't know, people always get caught up in the details on like especially all of 458 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:47,640 that stuff. 459 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,840 I just said of like I need this lens and it's twenty five hundred dollars and I need to 460 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,440 do this and that and then I'll be good and then I'll be able to do this. 461 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,040 And it's like in reality, if you want to create something like the best camera that you have 462 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:03,920 is the one that you have with you, that's like the best option. 463 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:11,880 And I have shot with very expensive cameras and I've shot with very cheap cameras and 464 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,680 it only makes a difference in the story that you're trying to tell. 465 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,520 You know, is that is the heart of it. 466 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:27,200 And you can you can translate it in any way, you know, with any any tools at your disposal. 467 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:34,480 This is why I like to take notes and I wasn't taking notes. 468 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,760 So I just know I was just listening. 469 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:49,240 You can tell that you like you genuinely understand that like it's not it's like not just the 470 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,400 it's not just the steps, you know, it's not just this like you do it. 471 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,800 You do A, B and C and then you're good. 472 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:56,800 Yeah. 473 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,600 And I like the thing you said about the nails and like you don't know what you don't know 474 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:07,920 how to like you don't know how to take something before it's broken. 475 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:08,920 Yeah. 476 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:09,920 Right. 477 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:16,920 And like it's like we're talking like like knowledge versus wisdom. 478 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,240 It's like knowledge. 479 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:19,920 Like I love reading books. 480 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,760 I haven't read a lot of those books I have on my shelf, but like I love reading books 481 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,720 and the hardest part is always the application. 482 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:28,720 It's the hardest part. 483 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,560 Like you can read like you can read books. 484 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:31,880 You can like you can go through. 485 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:37,080 I've said on this podcast before I have a whole episode about why you should read books. 486 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,360 But then like the next step is applying the knowledge that you just learned. 487 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:41,360 Yeah. 488 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,680 Like I have books on how to better how to better manage your time. 489 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,920 And if I just read that book, put on the shelf and didn't do nothing, then it's like nice. 490 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,560 Now I know how to do that and I'm not going to do it right. 491 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:52,560 Yeah. 492 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:53,560 It's useless. 493 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:59,600 It's like the concept of like going to YouTube videos is good and people should research 494 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,120 on like maybe and understand how to do things. 495 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:03,120 Oh yeah. 496 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,240 Don't get me wrong. 497 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,720 I look stuff up on YouTube all the time when literally like the same type of thing you were 498 00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:12,720 doing earlier where it's like I don't know how to do this one thing in Premiere. 499 00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:15,360 I'm like Premiere Pro tips and blah blah blah whatever. 500 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:16,360 And then I look it up. 501 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:22,400 But then I have it and I've used it and then I can I build off of that. 502 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:30,240 The amount of like little niche things I've learned in like so many different that's going 503 00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:31,640 to sound boastful. 504 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,960 But it's just like through doing little things like that where I'm like oh crap like I don't 505 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,760 know how to how to fix this problem I have. 506 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,080 And then it's like look it up. 507 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:41,080 And then now I have that. 508 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,720 And now that's not going to happen again. 509 00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:43,720 You know. 510 00:34:43,720 --> 00:34:47,480 So I think there's like my career is considered. 511 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:48,480 I don't know. 512 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:49,920 I have never heard like people use. 513 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,360 I mean I've heard people say it but I guess not. 514 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,160 I don't know if there's like categories of jobs in this way. 515 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,680 But like being a developer is a very big problem solving career. 516 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,320 It's like that's your job is essentially solving problems. 517 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:03,320 Yeah. 518 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:08,920 And we're like you're given the what people want the solution to be and you have to figure 519 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:10,400 out how to get to that point. 520 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:11,400 Yeah. 521 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,760 And like I feel like it's like you can I can literally be like what you are doing with 522 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,800 you like I want I want to have pictures and videos and like they don't know exactly what 523 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,720 they they don't know exactly what they want. 524 00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:25,480 But you know based off what they said and how to use their expertise to get to that 525 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:26,480 point. 526 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:27,480 Yeah. 527 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,520 That's kind of what Bethany was talking about in her episode where she she like designs 528 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,520 communities after natural disasters. 529 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:34,520 Yeah. 530 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:40,000 And she talks with the community members and then it was I'm going off the tangent. 531 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:41,000 But the I'm with it. 532 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:46,440 But like the point I'm trying to get was trying to get to before. 533 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:54,160 Is that like the whenever you'll see those steps this processes these processes of like 534 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:59,520 you look up like how do I like edit a video how do or how do for me like how do you build 535 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,960 an app in this and all the time development give you the basics. 536 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,120 It'll give you like this is how you set it up. 537 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:07,520 This is what you do. 538 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,920 And then like it's kind of like then like you're kind of just like I don't know exactly 539 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:12,920 what you want to do. 540 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:13,920 So like this is just how you start. 541 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:14,920 Yeah. 542 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,880 And then if you want to do particular things you have to look at particular things. 543 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,680 But like if you look at something that gives you like literally how to do a whole project 544 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:27,240 it's like the I think like there's a lot of things that will tell you the step by step 545 00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:32,120 process and that's if everything goes perfectly. 546 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:33,120 That's when those steps work. 547 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,160 And then otherwise you like you'll get like you have to freak out with the sub steps are 548 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,920 like like one B through like Z sometimes. 549 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:40,920 Yeah. 550 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:41,920 And you're like I ran out of nails. 551 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:42,920 What do I do now? 552 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:43,920 Yeah. 553 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,120 And figuring out that in between. 554 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:47,120 Yeah. 555 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,920 I that's funny. 556 00:36:51,920 --> 00:37:01,160 In the same sense it's like I can you know look up how to best you know key light an 557 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:07,640 interview or whatever and like get that sense and like how to edit in this way or whatever. 558 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:14,400 But I can't look up how to make an interesting Easter opener for Amplify Church 2024. 559 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:15,400 That doesn't exist. 560 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:21,920 So like I have to pull from all these other references and similar to what I was saying 561 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:30,800 earlier of just like doing it is I'm always like consuming well everybody these days is 562 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:37,400 always consuming content and you're always seeing these different methods of communication 563 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:46,960 and of visual information coming at you and whether that is something more you know complete 564 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:51,800 and like fulfilling of like you know like a movie or like even like a long series you 565 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:57,320 know stuff like that or it's like literally a tick tock or like something right you know 566 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,480 much more surface level I guess you could say. 567 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:06,440 But it I'm always referencing other things that I've seen. 568 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,960 And it's like well I like the way that they communicated this idea or the way that this 569 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:20,720 edit or whatever made you feel and combining that with like actual skills of like how can 570 00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:23,520 I recreate that. 571 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,040 And not as that kind of sounds like I steal stuff but which I definitely have before but 572 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,160 that's a different thing. 573 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:38,440 No but like being able to this is another thing that I say to like creative people is 574 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:44,520 like it's one thing to be able to look at either a picture or a video or a painting 575 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,720 or whatever it is it's one thing to be able to look at that and say that you like it. 576 00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:52,560 It's a totally different one to be able to dissect what it is you like about that and 577 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,000 how to translate that into what you're trying to do. 578 00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:05,280 So like even like with the Easter example like there are you know thousands of similar 579 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:10,380 if you look at church Easter opener video whatever there's thousands of examples from 580 00:39:10,380 --> 00:39:13,920 huge churches from small churches or whatever. 581 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:22,800 And you could just say like oh I like this I like this script this you know passage of 582 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:27,880 scripture that they used or whatever or I like the way it looks and like that's something 583 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:33,480 that especially like clients that don't know this isn't church related but clients that 584 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,040 like don't actually know what they want or know how to articulate that they're like oh 585 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,400 I like the way it looks and it's like well do you like the composition of it do you like 586 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:46,360 the lighting the color or like the edit of it and there's like oh it just looks nice. 587 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:53,440 It's like okay well now I need to go from there and like figure out you know what it 588 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,480 is from that and what I can translate. 589 00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:03,680 But yeah that is a big thing is like being able to articulate and dissect like this specifically 590 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,920 is what I like about this or what I don't like about this and then using that information 591 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,160 to move forward. 592 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:17,240 Yeah I think that's going through a lot of some of the stuff that you just said. 593 00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:27,360 The and then I have one question then we'll wrap up after that but um but the based off 594 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:34,120 of that I might have like I was thinking about that in a way of kind of how I was thinking 595 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:38,800 about things before like you're taking up like the person's feedback of like it's like 596 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,720 not technical feedback it's just like I like it. 597 00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:48,560 But it's also like and so then you have to use your technical knowledge to understand 598 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:53,720 like okay what's good and what's bad and then go from there and to be able to recreate that 599 00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:54,720 kind of stuff again. 600 00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:59,560 Yeah which okay I can get that. 601 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:06,480 Yeah my mind was going kind of in a different direction a little bit but it was just like 602 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:10,280 kind of going with what I was saying before like you talking you're talking you're talking 603 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,400 to them getting their feedback okay they like something about it and then you just see what's 604 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,320 good and what's bad and keep it you know looking good. 605 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:23,680 I don't know there wasn't much there for me to say but I think I just thought it's okay 606 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:32,600 but uh so final question before wrapping up um like do you have like a game plan moving 607 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:38,360 forward with like your creative with your career um with five businesses. 608 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,000 Yeah like what that look like. 609 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:49,280 Um yeah I um I do I it's interesting because like um all of the creative endeavors I guess 610 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:54,720 that I have now most of them at least have kind of just um like the opportunity is presented 611 00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:57,360 itself and then I feel like I've stepped into it. 612 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:06,640 I haven't um necessarily like sought out like I really want to um find a job at a church 613 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:07,640 making videos. 614 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,240 I really want to break into the wedding industry. 615 00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:11,520 I really want to do whatever. 616 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:16,480 It feels like the opportunity is presented itself and then I step into that which I'm 617 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:23,400 very grateful for um and that doesn't mean that I'm not actively pursuing all those things. 618 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:30,200 But yeah I um feel like I um I got a lot of different pots on the stove if you will. 619 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:31,200 Yeah. 620 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:38,200 Um where uh Ash my wife we both work at church um we both just work part time and then um 621 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:45,520 we shoot weddings and then I also um have a production company doing um like freelance 622 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,040 ad work and branding videos and stuff like that. 623 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:55,800 Um so I'm kind of simultaneously pursuing all of those things um and we are um just 624 00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:02,160 figuring out like what is the best way to like um I don't know keep watering all those 625 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:10,480 seeds right if that makes sense um because they're all very different um experiences 626 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:16,640 and they're all very different um businesses and creative modes of creative expression 627 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,760 if that makes sense. 628 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:23,240 Because something that I struggle with sometimes is like obviously working at a church and 629 00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:29,600 creating very um Christ focused content if you will. 630 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:41,880 It's very it's a very linear process between um me feeling inspired um by God and by the 631 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:47,040 talents that I feel like he has put inside me um and then translating that into content 632 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:52,640 that then it inspires other people um in their relationship with God. 633 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,780 That to me feels very um linear. 634 00:43:56,780 --> 00:44:02,720 It's a totally different thing to be a Christian couple that's shooting a wedding when that 635 00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:11,240 isn't necessarily going to be a um a Christ focused piece of content I guess if that makes 636 00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:12,240 sense. 637 00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:20,200 So then it's like how do I um still create with like my God given um abilities in a way 638 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:25,240 that glorifies him when it's a totally different um mode of communication and it's a totally 639 00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:30,560 different um like purpose of that you know video obviously. 640 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:35,720 And the same thing especially with um ad stuff and like working with clients where it's like 641 00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:41,440 um they're hiring you to make something that will then make them money and that is like 642 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:49,600 a totally different um like goal obviously of the that content. 643 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:59,640 So it's like um I don't know it's it's a weird dance and between doing all those different 644 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:07,120 things but honestly like I just keep the same mindset um throughout all of them um and it's 645 00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:13,080 just it's just one of those things that um you kind of just push into and you just figure 646 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:14,080 it out along the way. 647 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:21,480 I'll let you say on your original question um that I um am very grateful that I'm able 648 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:26,480 to um in some senses work for myself in two of those three. 649 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:32,760 Um and I'm very I love our community at church and the health of the staff um and that is 650 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:42,240 a you know it's a beautiful opportunity that we've been able to have um but I other than 651 00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:47,440 that opportunity at church I don't know if I could fully work on a staff in a creative 652 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:56,440 role um that wasn't working for myself because um it feels limiting if that makes sense. 653 00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:02,280 So all that to say in one sense or another I will always be making things. 654 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:12,400 I um will always be trying to do things um not I was gonna say for myself. 655 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,600 I enjoy working for myself but I don't want to do things for myself. 656 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:16,600 Yeah. 657 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:25,680 Um but yeah it's um it's just whatever I can do you know to keep creating things and keep 658 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:26,760 getting paid for it. 659 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,680 People keep paying me to mix the little videos I'll do it you know all day long. 660 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:31,680 Nice. 661 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:32,680 Yeah. 662 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:34,480 All right. 663 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:40,680 Well I got a little wrap up questions but uh I want to thank you for being on. 664 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:41,680 Um. 665 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:42,680 Thanks for having me. 666 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:43,680 It's been a lot of fun. 667 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:49,800 Uh so you mentioned a couple of your businesses and usually I don't ask this question because 668 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:55,520 most people that I talk to don't have businesses but like um if someone would want to reach 669 00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,440 out to you how could they do that. 670 00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:58,440 Yeah. 671 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:03,640 So um well my personal Instagram is just my name just Cole Zimmerman um and then linked 672 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:08,400 there is my wife and I's business which is Zimmerman photo video and that would be you 673 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,240 know weddings engagement photos you know anything like that. 674 00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:18,200 And then my production company is found studios um which would be foundstudios.co it's also 675 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:25,760 on Instagram and that I do freelance branding at work commercial stuff like that. 676 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,760 Um yeah. 677 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,080 And then amplify church dot com. 678 00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,800 That's my my other pillar. 679 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:33,800 Sweet. 680 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:34,800 Yeah. 681 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,600 We'll put a put those in the show notes for you guys if you want to read it. 682 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:45,120 And then for the people who like like to read or listen to podcasts other podcasts like 683 00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:50,400 what kind of or any other type of resource that you might have what kind of resources 684 00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:55,080 do you or have you recommended to people who are looking to grow their calling or grow 685 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:56,800 like personal person. 686 00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,320 Um I would say the Bible. 687 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,280 I don't know if you've heard of that one. 688 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:08,040 Um no I obviously that is the core of who I am and what I believe. 689 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:13,960 Um I honestly though in terms of podcasts I don't listen to most of them or I don't 690 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:15,480 listen to a lot of podcasts. 691 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:16,480 Yeah. 692 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:22,080 Um because like Ash will listen to stuff when she's working and editing but I can't listen 693 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,480 to anything else when I'm editing a video because it's just the whole thing. 694 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:25,480 Right. 695 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,360 So I often don't find time for it. 696 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:39,160 Um but yeah and then in terms of um uh like creative endeavors I guess um just especially 697 00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:44,600 video just watch as much content as you can right um as much fulfilling content as you 698 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:45,600 can. 699 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,600 You don't need to scroll on TikTok all day long. 700 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:56,160 But uh that is some of the best inspiration I've had is like through movies. 701 00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,720 I went to school for film you know I studied it big time. 702 00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:05,760 Um and yeah I I'm blanking on the name now. 703 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:10,000 I read this book in college on um film production. 704 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,720 I'll I'll find it. 705 00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:12,720 I'll send it to you. 706 00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:13,720 You can like it. 707 00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:18,760 I forget what it was um which is not a good sign for me recommending if I don't remember 708 00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:19,760 the name of it. 709 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:29,440 Um but it was a lot of um good concrete advice on um how to uh communicate your vision. 710 00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:30,440 Yeah. 711 00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:31,440 If that makes sense. 712 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,800 Um but yeah I also um I'll be transparent. 713 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:36,560 I don't read as much as I should. 714 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:42,680 Um I will tell that to all your listeners pursuit of do you have a fan base name? 715 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:44,160 The the pursuers? 716 00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,520 The I don't but that'd be cool. 717 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:47,520 First one's free you can have that one. 718 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,520 Um I'll I'll be transparent with all the pursuers. 719 00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,520 I don't read as much as I should. 720 00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,960 This coin you heard it here first. 721 00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:57,960 Yeah. 722 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,280 Um cool and then final question. 723 00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:08,040 Who like now you've been on the podcast like who would you recommend to be on the show? 724 00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:13,080 Yeah um I have you had Mike on Mike to Dominic? 725 00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:14,080 I haven't no. 726 00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,280 I think he would be very insightful. 727 00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,840 He um if you don't know this will be a little teaser. 728 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,720 Well unless he says no he would do it though. 729 00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:30,480 He is also from our church and he um is our creative arts director where he's in charge 730 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:36,960 of worship production and creative and everything and um he is he's wise beyond his years. 731 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,640 So I think also same vein I would say Ian would be good. 732 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,600 Ah we've I've asked Ian he won't lead lead it too. 733 00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:45,600 That's so sad. 734 00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,600 Ian likes to edit. 735 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:48,600 Yeah well. 736 00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:49,600 It keeps happening. 737 00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:50,600 Yeah I don't know. 738 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:56,160 I mean he keeps hearing us talk about him and he's probably gonna have to say yes. 739 00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:00,560 So yeah um but yeah cool. 740 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:06,600 All right well thanks Cole for being on the Pursuit of Calling podcast and if guys you 741 00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:12,240 want to reach out or you want to let me know how it went send me a message or an email 742 00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:15,640 and you can also share it on your social medias. 743 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,640 Thank you for listening to this episode. 744 00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:27,320 See you next time.