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Hey guys, how's it going?

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Welcome to this episode of The Pursuit of Calling, with me, your host, Thomas Carney.

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Here I sit down with Bethanie Martin.

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She's one of the coolest people I have ever met.

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She is a designer, but maybe not the kind of designer that you're thinking about right

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now.

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She designs neighborhoods and parks, and a lot of the time is around climate action and

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post-natural disaster work.

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We talk a lot about how she sits down with community members to really figure out what

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the vision of a community post-natural disaster should be.

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We get into how she got into this kind of work, and it's kind of a really interesting

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story and she tells a lot of interesting stories.

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So if you want to listen to this episode, buckle up, because that's fantastic.

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But before we dive in, I want to ask you to send me a message.

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If you have any questions or you want me to talk on a particular topic, or you just want

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to say something encouraging words, you can do so on Instagram or via the email that is

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listed in the show notes of this episode.

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All right guys, see you in there.

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All right guys, hey, how's it going?

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So I am here with Bethanie Martin.

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And this was, Leah recommended her during her recording.

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I asked her when she could record, and this is probably the quickest.

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I've had some recommendation and then a recording, and it's really cool.

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So Bethanie, we talked a little bit throughout the week about what you do for work, and we

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were talking a little bit before the recording, but for those who don't know you, don't really

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know your background, could you give us a little short synopsis?

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Sure.

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Bethanie, my 32nd elevator pitch, I'm originally from the east side of Indianapolis.

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I moved to Pittsburgh almost six years ago via Detroit, Michigan, so I'm a Midwest girl

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at heart.

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My background is in architecture and urban design and planning, so I currently work for

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a firm, downtown Pittsburgh, doing neighborhood engagement and planning work, and also climate

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action and resilience work with a focus on communities and how they live and do life

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in the places that they currently exist.

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On top of that, I, fun facts, things that are not just about my job.

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I love the Lord.

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I spend a lot of time talking to Jesus either in my hammock or in my double-pop son chair

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in my living room.

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I have a two-year-old great Pyrenees who's a complete stubborn little thing.

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She's as cute as it comes.

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What else?

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I love the people in my life, so when Leah called and made the recommendation, I was

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more than happy to sit here because I love people.

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I love getting to hear about their stories also, and so I'm just really honored to be

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here.

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Oh, well, thank you for your yes.

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Yes.

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It's always great.

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This is the first time I've recorded with somebody that generally didn't know beforehand.

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That's even a testament to the podcast, I think.

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Generally, this podcast is called Pursuit of Calling, and it helps me meet new people.

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As I was thinking about it earlier in the week, it's like, maybe we would have had

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a conversation at some point, but this is how it gets to happen.

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This is how it gets to happen, and I couldn't be more thankful for that.

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We were, I'm happy, you told me what you were doing with it.

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I did for work both earlier in the week because my brain would have broke today.

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For those who don't know, just to dive a little bit more into that, just because I think it's

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really cool if people also probably don't know much about it, could you go a little

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bit further into urban design, things like that?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I spend a lot of my time doing everything from production housing to disaster relief

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and recovery and all things in between.

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A lot of that looks like, yes, I have a degree in architecture and urban design architecture

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is the design of buildings, urban design is the design of all the spaces in between the

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buildings, and then planning are all of the codes and requirements necessary to make those

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first two things happen.

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A lot of my life exists between those three disciplines.

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That can be currently working on the design of a really big 50-acre park in Cleveland,

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and also working on lots of large-scale city master planning related to equity and resilience.

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So that manifests in a lot of different ways, but I think for me personally at the root

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of all of it is sitting down, having conversations not unlike what we're doing today with people

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specifically around the design of the places that they live, work, and do life.

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Sitting across from community members, sitting across from neighborhood organizations, hosting

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meetings and churches, talking to local leaders, et cetera, being like, okay, X person has

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X millions of dollars to work on a project, let's talk about what it should be, and not,

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I'm going to go take my technical expertise, design a thing, and tell you what your community

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should look like.

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Yeah.

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And guys, that's something I was talking about earlier with her before the recording.

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You might have heard this already from John Max when he's teaching.

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He talks about walking slowly through the crowd and talks about you go where the people

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are.

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And the reason for that is so you can get their feedback.

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You can see who they are, how they live their lives, and learn how to, from the leadership

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perspective, learn how to lead them more effectively.

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And this isn't too different.

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It's like figuring out how to really construct a vision that they would want.

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Yeah.

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Because the reality is we were talking, I don't work in the place that I live.

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My firm is located in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and that's why I moved here six years ago.

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But I have worked in Northern California.

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I have worked in Texas.

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I have worked in states all across the country, and almost notably have never worked in the

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city of Pittsburgh or in the state of Pennsylvania.

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And so the reality is, is I don't experience on a day-to-day basis the places that I am

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working in.

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And as a result of that, while yes, I have the technical skill set and the professional

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degrees associated with doing my job well, I don't have the day-to-day lived knowledge

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and experience of someone who does their life in those places.

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And so rather than me entering into a community and saying, I know best because I can tell

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you with academic proficiency what you should do, instead, I want to hear your voice.

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I want to know, because ultimately, once the design of whatever plan we're working on

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is done, I am leaving.

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I don't live there.

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And so I want you to have ownership.

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I want you to know that you have had a voice and what your community looks like.

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I want you to know that millions of dollars are going towards investing in the vision

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that you have and what you need from the place that you live in.

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And so that can be as simple as what should housing look like that directly reflects Fort

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Worth, Texas, where I did lots of public housing work.

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Or it can look like I did a lot of work in Paradise, California following the campfire

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in 2018, which destroyed the town in six hours as a result of an electrical fire.

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And it was gone.

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Almost everything was gone.

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30,000 structures overnight, just in an instant.

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And I didn't know Paradise before.

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I was only brought in afterwards.

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And so none of my academic understanding of natural disasters does any good in a place

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that has nothing left.

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And so sitting across the table from residents who lost memories and tangible photos of their

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lives, they know.

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They know what Paradise looked like.

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It's all in their head and in their heart.

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And I'm like, I want to know that place.

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And I want to know what of that place needs to be here again in the future.

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And so that's the priority.

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That's the purpose of walking slowly through the crowd.

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It's like, I, yes, exist with a technical skill set.

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But your knowledge is sometimes even more important than mine is.

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And so what do I do to both productively extract that for what I do for a living, but also

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to honor those stories, to honor the life that you live where you do and ensure that

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that is what gets elevated above all.

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The only way I know how to respond to that is that it's really cool because, like, I

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mean, maybe some of you guys listening have thought about that before.

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That's not something I've ever really thought about.

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It's like somebody's doing it.

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Somebody is designing the park.

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Somebody is rebuilding after natural disasters.

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Somebody's, and there's not just one person, it's multiple.

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And it's like, there's people doing these things.

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And it's great to know that there's people like Bethanie who are taking these, just taking

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people to heart.

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And like saying, you said before, like you love people.

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Yeah.

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And I feel like you couldn't do what you do if you didn't.

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No, not at all.

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So with this podcast being called, the pursuit of calling, like what caused you to want,

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what caused you, like what directed you to get into this line of work?

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Yeah.

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If you don't mind, I'll tell a story because it gets to the heart of how I ended up here.

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I was an art major in college for a year before I ended up in architecture school.

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And so from like, what do I do well?

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I love to draw.

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I love to have paint and markers and pens and paper and all sorts of things.

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And so I thought being an art student was it.

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And I had a four-year plan laid out.

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And then I got into college and started to have a tragic sense of, I don't want to do

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this, but I don't know where I'm going.

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And looking back on a lot of the Lord's grace to lead me right across the street from the

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art building was over to the School of Architecture.

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But even for the first couple of years in the School of Architecture, from a traditional

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perspective, architecture is the design of buildings.

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And that's really fun.

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And it meant that I could productively use the creative side of my brain and channel

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it into something that was physically making a difference in the world.

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And so I was like, okay, well, I can get behind this.

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I can understand it.

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But it was my third year in architecture school.

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As a part of the program I was in, every fall we took one week off of school and we traveled

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with our professor somewhere across the country.

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And it had something to do with that professor's interests or what we were going to be studying

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for the semester, whatever it may be.

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And so my professor at the time was really interested in social justice and really interested

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in the intersection of architecture, planning, and social justice and how our industry has

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specifically created conditions that oppress certain populations and elevate to importance

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others.

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And so we went on a Rust Belt Cities tour to Detroit and Flint specifically.

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And my dad had worked a lot in Detroit when I was a kid.

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For all intents and purposes, basically in my backyard, living in Indianapolis, less

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than five hours away.

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But I'd never been, never seen it, only ever heard stories.

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And my professor was like, I want you to read nothing on the news before we go.

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I don't want you to look up Detroit.

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I don't want you to look up Flint.

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We're just going to go.

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And I have conversations prepared for us to have when we get there.

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And so little did we all realize, but this was the start of the Flint water crisis when

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so many of the pipes in the city were putting toxins into the water.

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And to this day, the city of Flint does not have clean, fresh water for the entire town

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because they are still trying to deal with rotting infrastructure.

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But so we get up to the town of Flint, which is like 30 minutes north of the city of Detroit.

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And we get up there and my professor had arranged for us to sit in this old church building

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and have a conversation with this police officer who would become a pastor at a church.

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And I'm fascinated because I grew up in the church, strong believer, and so I'm like,

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oh, well, this will be really cool to be in a church surrounded by classmates who don't

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believe in the Lord who may not see the brevity of what we're sitting in front of.

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But I was like, that's fine.

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So we're sitting and having this conversation.

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And he had a member of his congregation with him who was there to talk to us about the

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town.

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And for those who have never been there or may not know, it's so desolate.

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There's so much abandonment.

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There's very few people that still live in the town.

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For obvious reasons, now the population is probably declining because of the water crisis.

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I mean, there's so many issues at hand.

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But people who have just some have stuck around through all of it.

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And this member of the congregation was one of those.

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And so I remember after we'd listened to the police officer, and there's actually a documentary

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series on Netflix, Side Little Plug, about the town of Flint, and several of the people

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that we met while we were there are in that documentary.

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And it's really cool to watch.

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But I was sitting at lunch with this member of the congregation.

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We were talking to him about what he does in his daily life in the city of Flint.

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And he owns a lawn.

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He's telling us, I own a lawn mower, and I mow the grass at the church.

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And he was like, but there's this strip mall that's crossed from the church that's been

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abandoned for years.

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And so after I'm done mowing the grass at the church, I go across the street and I mow

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the grass at the abandoned strip mall that's across from the church.

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And he was like, then as I'm going about my daily business throughout the week, he was

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like, there's lots of abandoned lots in my neighborhood.

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And so as often as I can, I get out and I mow the grass at each of those abandoned properties

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as well.

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And I'm sitting here and I hate mowing the grass.

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And I generally hate yard work of any sort.

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And so I, in my complete naivety, look at this gentleman and I was like, can you explain

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why?

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Like, why of all things do you mow the grass?

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Because it's hot.

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That doesn't sound fun.

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Like I can't understand of all the things that you would do.

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That's your choice.

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And he was like, you know what?

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I own a lawn mower, which most of my neighbors don't and our church doesn't.

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And if the property is abandoned for obvious reasons, there's no one designated to mow

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the grass.

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And he's like, but I own a lawn mower and I have some free time.

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And so I use my free time and the resources I have in front of me to make my neighborhood

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beautiful.

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And that's what I can contribute.

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And I think my neighborhood is a beautiful place filled with beautiful people in a beautiful

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city.

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And I want other people to see my neighborhood, to look that exact same way.

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I want them to know that this is a beautiful place also.

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And this is what I can do to contribute to them being able to see my neighborhood is

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beautiful.

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And truly I sat dumbfounded, completely dumbfounded because I was like, I viewed this as such a

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weird thing to do.

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And in his mind, this was the one beautiful act of love that he could show his community.

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And it was the one thing that he could do repeatedly to say, this neighborhood is worth

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love.

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My community is worth love.

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And I'm going to make sure that it's well loved.

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And I left the city of Flint that week in the city of Detroit that week.

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And I was like, okay, Lord, well, then what is my one thing?

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What is the thing that you have given me the resource and the capacity to do to love people

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who deserve to be loved, to love communities that deserve to be loved, and to show that

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they are worthy of that love.

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And so for me, it just so happens to be that I really, really love people and I really

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love sitting and have conversations with people.

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And I've been technically gifted in the world of planning and architecture.

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And so from that moment forward, there was this marrying of, and this interweaving of

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all of these things that the Lord had given me to do this.

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And so it became my life's work to figure out how to do that in a profession that doesn't

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traditionally support this kind of work or this avenue.

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It's extremely small in the world of architecture and planning.

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And so I worked for nonprofits and I sat in circles with people who did this on a daily

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basis and I called random people to get coffee because I'm like, you do this for a living.

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So how do I walk this out?

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And one experience after the next ended up now here.

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I think that trip was in 2014, I believe, so 10 years later doing the thing I never

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could have imagined coming out of one conversation with a man who really likes to mow the grass.

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That man.

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Like, guys, this is why I like, I already said about why I like having guests, but that's

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not even like the piece of out thing.

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You're like, like, don't talk about yourself.

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I don't want to talk about myself as much.

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But like the things that you've seen, the people you've talked to, like you went and

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reached out and reached out to people you didn't know to find out things, just to find

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out things that you wanted to know about what you do now.

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And relatively, I'm thinking about the podcast.

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If I just stuck with the people I knew about like to for guests and like to figure out

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new things and things like that, like this, like part of it would be so much smaller.

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This podcast would be like, it's not like a huge thing right now, but it's like, for

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me, it's huge.

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It's like this thing I love to do.

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And like, I know that I think there's like, there's like whenever you're finding your passion

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and you're relatively thinking about like, maybe you don't know what you're passionate

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about, but then you're, I think that like this example of it at least, and I don't think

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this is everybody's example, but like, like you just went out and you started like, like

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you start reaching out to people that things that you wanted to know, because you want

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to learn more about it so you can do it so you could do it and do it well and do it more

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effectively.

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And that's a big part of this podcast because I went and do research and if I look out people

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that I knew and I own a book now from this guy, John Stange, I think I don't actually

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I don't think I think that was the wrong way to say his last name, but it's okay.

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The like, I was on like invited to a zoom call a few weeks ago and he had and like,

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and he has multiple podcasts put up multiple books and he had like an open house zoom call

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with a couple people from our church, our private group and like, and I was able to

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get advice from him.

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And like, it's so cool that like, one, like, like you're able to like, we're able to do

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that we're able to seek out these people to guide us to do the things that we want to

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be able to do.

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Yeah.

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It was one of the questions that you had me thinking about before of what are the tools

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and resources for me specifically that I've utilized or that help in the pursuit of my

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own calling.

308
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And for me, you know, I actually probably shouldn't say this.

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I don't listen to podcasts all that often because I get really distracted listening to

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people talk while I'm at work because I get so excited and invested in what they're talking

311
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about that I can't pay attention to what I'm supposed to be doing.

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So I don't listen to podcasts super often and I don't read from a like self-help or

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self-development perspective as often because a lot of it tends to be very career focused

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or very point in time focused.

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But again, I love people and I think, you know, I, I have an inflated sense of independence

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and the Lord and I are working on it.

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And I think one of the things I've learned most as a result of that inflated sense of

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independence is that in fact, the Lord equipped all of us differently and put each of us for

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such a time as this.

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And that doesn't just mean I have to put my blinders on and I individually have to do

321
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the thing that I was called to do.

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And I have to focus solely on the Lord and I executing the thing right in front of me.

323
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But in fact, while uncomfortable as it may have been, it was a studio reviewer in my

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third year in architecture school who got me an internship when I lived in Louisville,

325
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:34,640
Kentucky for three months.

326
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While most of my classmates were living at home and working in their hometowns, I randomly

327
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moved to a different state to go learn from this person who I knew for about 10 minutes

328
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before I moved there.

329
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And I went to graduate school in Detroit upon the recommendation of several people in my

330
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life who recommended this one small university that many people had never heard of but had

331
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some of the most phenomenal professors who then shaped my ability to do things like go

332
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spend three weeks in South Africa or do a human rights fellowship in Poland.

333
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And I say all of those things and it sounds like bragging.

334
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The Lord instrumentally put these individual people in my life to push these things forward.

335
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But that also requires the act of faith of I have to get really uncomfortable to call

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someone and be like, hey, can I have copy with you because your career sounds interesting

337
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and I really want to hear about it.

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Or hey, such and such from the new firm that I work at, it's really uncomfortable to say

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that I'm ready to move from a place that I have worked at for the last five and a half

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years, but you all are doing some really interesting work that feels really in alignment with where

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I feel like I'm going.

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Can we sit down and talk about it and figure out if there's a way that I plug in or, you

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know, hey, youth students or young adults who I spend my time around, I will put myself

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out there as in mentorship opportunities as someone that you can just use as a sounding

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board as a person who's walking out their own life who wants to hear what you are currently

346
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navigating and walking through.

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Because that means maybe you have something to learn from the ways that I have stumbled

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in doing this.

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And maybe I have something to learn from the boldness of a 21 year old that I could not

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have fathomed having when I was that age.

351
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Like it's all of these moments and it's like, it's not to suggest that books and podcasts

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aren't helpful because they are in the most beautiful ways, but the people behind all

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of those things are also so equally beautiful and accessible and oftentimes really willing

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to talk and have conversations, even if it means sending some really uncomfortable emails.

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So guys, take that to heart.

356
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,560
Like I want to ask you something.

357
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,160
Where did you get that confidence?

358
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:14,720
Oh gosh, it's really, I have had several conversations with people in my life about imposter syndrome

359
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:24,600
because I don't feel like that confident of a person to be completely honest and transparent.

360
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And so when most people reflect back to me, where do you get that confidence?

361
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,400
What how do you do X, Y and Z?

362
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,960
For a long time, it was an imposter syndrome struggle and then it was the humility of being

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like, that's the Lord.

364
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And I don't say that lightly or easily, but it truly has to be because I don't feel that

365
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:48,080
way in my own strength and in my own ability.

366
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I certainly don't feel like that confident of a person.

367
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I get knots in my stomach every time I sit in my car outside of the coffee shop of the

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person who I'm going to go meet with that I randomly got the nerve to send an email

369
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:07,560
to and now have found myself walking out the life decision that I was hoping maybe I could

370
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,600
just stay behind closed doors.

371
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And so it, it truly is a the Lord is guiding those steps and the Lord is walking that out

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and I am the vessel by which all of that is happening and taking to heart that reality

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of I don't have to equip myself with any confidence.

374
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I am not the strong one here.

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I am not doing this of my own volition.

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The Lord is opening doors and I'm walking through them and it's as simple as walking

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00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,680
through the door of the coffee shop for a two hour conversation.

378
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It's also walking through the door of leaving a place that I had worked for five and a half

379
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:55,800
years that had largely become a huge piece of my identity.

380
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And the boldness and reassurance to do those things is that I serve a God who has been

381
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:06,600
faithful up until now, who's won every battle before this.

382
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,240
And I was reading something this week where they're like, if you feel like you're hanging

383
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:18,960
on by a thread, at least make sure it's a thread at the end of his cape that's in the

384
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,440
temple and it's like the Lord has won all of these victories.

385
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,400
And that's where it all gets to come from.

386
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:26,920
That's the confidence I get to walk on.

387
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,920
I'm just hanging by a thread both days.

388
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:35,200
I am just holding on to hope and a prayer and making it look like the world is a very

389
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,560
confident place, but that's all his doing.

390
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:39,560
Wow.

391
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,800
And it's like the polar opposite of what a lot of people would say.

392
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,960
Like, what do you get that confidence for?

393
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:47,200
Like, oh, I did these things.

394
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,880
I do these practices and they talk about themselves a lot.

395
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:58,160
And no, you give the credit to God.

396
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,880
And I think that's great because it's like...

397
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,160
It's not me.

398
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,200
I stand in my own way if I try to fabricate it.

399
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:11,560
And I think like, for me, I pray for confidence.

400
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:17,040
I pray for guidance and hope and all these things I know he has.

401
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:23,720
And there's like a work with my therapist even to like work on my confidence.

402
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,240
And like whenever I get those knots in my stomach, like, it gives me like some like

403
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,720
mental practices to do or like, she's like, okay, go stand in that uncomfortable moment

404
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,720
for just a few more seconds.

405
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,800
And then like you've had to get out, get out.

406
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,880
And I just find...

407
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,040
I find my...

408
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:49,880
I know that there's something interesting as you...

409
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,080
And this is kind of taking a little bit of a tangent, so I apologize, guys.

410
00:28:53,080 --> 00:29:02,720
But like there's something interesting about like as you walk out in confidence, like even

411
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:10,520
if you're not fully confident, like you walk out of confidence and you see what happens.

412
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,040
Because like you had their knot in your stomach in the car, but you...

413
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,960
But then you went in and you had the conversation and like maybe it wasn't during, but maybe

414
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,680
it was after like, wow, that was great.

415
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,360
And like, man, I'm happy.

416
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:27,040
I'm happy that like, like, one, like you have that confidence.

417
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,520
We have access to the confidence, like to the source of it.

418
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,640
And like, like, I'm happy.

419
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,440
It's great that I was able to do that, but it wasn't me.

420
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:36,440
Like it wasn't me.

421
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,760
It was like, it wasn't me because I would have stayed in the car.

422
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:48,040
And that's the slight twist of, you know, I have walked into several of those conversations

423
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:53,840
and felt like I had to be the one to muster all of the strength and then walked out of

424
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,120
them being like, man, the Lord is good.

425
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,520
Because at the end of the day, I would have stayed in the car.

426
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,640
I probably would have never sent the email.

427
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,400
I would have never changed jobs.

428
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,440
I would have never moved to the places I have lived in.

429
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:13,360
I would not have done any of the decisions that I have, that I have quote unquote made

430
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:20,960
up into this point, but the Lord knew that and made a way anyways.

431
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:27,920
And at the end of the day, it is glorifying to him to watch his people walk out what he

432
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,080
has given them to do.

433
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:38,120
And that, you know, we, when we talk about it in these big, yes, I have this really interesting

434
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,880
profession and this is the calling on my life.

435
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,720
And I put so much weight on that profession.

436
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,040
It's like the Lord has equipped me for a lot of things that have nothing to do with my

437
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,520
professional career as beautiful as it is.

438
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:59,280
And so if I put all of the focus on, well, my calling is only in this professional career.

439
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,920
Because I won't even have those conversations because I'm so focused on this thing sitting

440
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,320
right in front of me.

441
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:12,040
And it's like, okay, I want to, Lord, I want to see holistically your picture.

442
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,560
And that includes all of those people that you meet in coffee shops and all of those

443
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:20,160
emails that you send and all of those open house zoom calls that you're a part of and

444
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:26,080
all of the learning and growing that we do that's fixing our eyes on Jesus and walking

445
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,600
it out on a daily basis.

446
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,880
And it's okay that I don't have the confidence to do it because I have confidence that he

447
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:32,880
does.

448
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:33,880
Yeah.

449
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:34,880
And that's all I need.

450
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:35,880
Right.

451
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:42,480
Like, guys, I want to give you like, oh, when I go back to a couple of things that you

452
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:50,560
said, but specifically for like the listener here and like, there are things that you

453
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:51,560
want to do, right?

454
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,400
There are things that like you want to do that you want to seek out that you like you

455
00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:02,240
have like this, maybe this passion that like you don't know where it comes from maybe.

456
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:07,320
And you don't know how, but then at the same time, like I talked about this last episode,

457
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,640
like you don't know where to start.

458
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:15,560
You don't know how you don't know where to like, you don't know how to get more information.

459
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,560
And like it's not, and I do like that you said, like it's not just in the books.

460
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,560
It's in the people who wrote them.

461
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:26,600
And like, and there's, we talked about going to the source and like going to like you go

462
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:31,360
to God, you pray and like you can, but like we also go to the like who wrote the book

463
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:32,760
or the source of the book?

464
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:33,760
Yeah.

465
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,200
Like you go to that person, you can go to that person and sometimes like maybe they won't

466
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,400
reach and maybe they're too, maybe, maybe like they're busy.

467
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,960
I can't reach out, but like you also might just know the people.

468
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,560
You might also just know people.

469
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:45,560
Yes.

470
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:50,080
Like you don't know, like there's like, I like for me, like I want to have my own business.

471
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,840
I want to have like, I want to, I have this entrepreneurial mind.

472
00:32:53,840 --> 00:33:01,040
I feel like he's giving me and there's, I know entrepreneurs who are very successful.

473
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,920
I have their phone number and like that.

474
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,280
And like, and like I wouldn't want one, I wouldn't have, like this is like maybe a,

475
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,800
I don't know, but like I wouldn't have known that if I wouldn't have walked in the doors

476
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:13,800
of the church.

477
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:14,800
Yeah.

478
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:20,880
I wouldn't have, and I wouldn't have like, have the confidence to even like, I didn't

479
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:21,880
ask for the number.

480
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,080
They were just friendly and like we talked to the conversations and then like, I don't

481
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,960
remember how I got these guys's numbers.

482
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:33,320
And like, or like one guy, Ed, uh, past red, uh, it was like, uh, hooked me up with to

483
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,200
like get, get, uh, food with him at one point.

484
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,440
And like, I have all these guys numbers on my phone and like, I'm kind of convicted

485
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,000
because I haven't reached out to them in a while.

486
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,800
And like, and like just to spend time with them.

487
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:44,720
Yeah.

488
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:45,720
Because they live their lives.

489
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:46,720
Uh, yeah.

490
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:53,520
You, it doesn't always have to be, um, I want to sit down and extract all of this information

491
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:59,960
about the one very specific thing that would help me grow as much as it is putting yourself

492
00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:03,280
in proximity to all of who they are.

493
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:08,200
Because I was, um, having a conversation with a friend several years ago who was a former

494
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:13,080
small group leader of mine and we were going around the room talking about our biggest

495
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:14,080
hopes and dreams.

496
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:20,640
Like what was this big feels really unattainable dream that we have on our hearts.

497
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:26,280
And she was like, okay, now I want to go back around the room and name the one step that

498
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,000
you can take tomorrow.

499
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,480
That's great.

500
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,960
And it's a very simple act.

501
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,440
And for me, a lot of it was putting myself in proximity.

502
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:41,680
Um, cause I get bored Google searching and trying to understand how to carve my way in

503
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:48,480
this world, um, but putting myself in proximity to all of who someone is, all of how they're

504
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,360
walking out their daily life.

505
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:59,400
I can glean a lot from someone's relationship to their family as a means for understanding

506
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:04,640
what their professional life might look like as much as I can glean a lot of understanding

507
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:10,000
from how someone serves in the church and how that mindset impacts how they walk through

508
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,760
their professional careers.

509
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,600
And so it's not always this big scary, I'm going to sit down and I'm going to ask you

510
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:21,080
these nine questions about your professional goals and aspirations so that I may learn

511
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,520
how you got to where you are.

512
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:29,360
But I'm, you know, I think of, did the Pittsburgh leadership foundations, um, emerging leaders

513
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:36,520
collaborative last year and sat down with people like Mark Sorrell and others.

514
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:44,360
And as beautiful as it was to listen to pastor Lee and Mark talk about how they got to where

515
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,160
they are today, step by step.

516
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:54,280
I also sat at the feet of people who have beautiful testimonies of lives lived for the

517
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:55,440
Lord.

518
00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:02,080
And it's simple things like learning in that leadership collaborative that I, at the time

519
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:07,840
I was both working for the church and also working at the firm downtown.

520
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:13,480
And so I was living what I would refer to as like a dual professional life.

521
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:18,800
I was working in a secular environment and then I was working in a church environment

522
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:25,720
and the simple extraction of let's remove the notion that one of your jobs is secular

523
00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:31,840
and one of them is not and believe that all of it is on mission, not just because you're

524
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,240
not just in the church and that's the only place you can be on mission.

525
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:36,720
You're on mission here also.

526
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:44,680
And it's like, well, the minute that I elevate outside of this notion that only doing things

527
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,760
at the church is on mission or only serving is on mission.

528
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,480
And that in fact, the way that I walk out my professional career is on mission also

529
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,880
and that doesn't always have to be in the church.

530
00:36:54,880 --> 00:37:00,360
Now all of a sudden I've learned a lesson I never would have guessed sitting in front

531
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:07,520
of people who also had very tangible lessons to learn about how to walk out their purpose

532
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,760
in the world.

533
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,640
And that would have, had I gone in the perspective that that's what I had to gain from them,

534
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,480
never would have heard the other piece of it.

535
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:23,640
And yet I honestly think I learned so much more from the simple mind shift that they

536
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:30,480
had around how they approach what it means to live out their calling.

537
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:35,120
And so that, that alone, but that, you don't know those things without being in proximity

538
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:36,600
to those people.

539
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:42,800
So you can take the pressure off of it being this big, huge thing to do and make it as simple

540
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:47,080
as you've lived a life for the Lord.

541
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,360
What do I learn from that also?

542
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:59,040
And like there's, and just to put some context in there's for those who don't know who Pastor

543
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:05,760
Lee is and Mark Serrero, Pastor Lee is a founding, one of the founding pastors of Amplified

544
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,360
Church in Plum.

545
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:16,360
And then Mark Serrero is the owner, founder of a very successful bakery, Oklahoma Bakery.

546
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,400
And like, like you were saying like secular versus non-tecular, like it's like they're

547
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:21,400
both for the Lord.

548
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:22,400
Yeah.

549
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,840
And like, and like it's, you wouldn't think like, oh, how are donuts for the Lord?

550
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:32,600
And like, or what does an architectural designer, someone who, you know, works in the planning

551
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:39,100
world have to learn from a man who owns a really successful bakery and the founding

552
00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:41,360
pastor at a church.

553
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:45,600
Because any self-help book would tell you to go find an architect to talk to.

554
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,320
If you're going to work in the world of architecture.

555
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:53,240
And instead I'm sitting in front of a man who has built his life around one of the best

556
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:55,360
bakeries I've ever been to.

557
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,360
And a man who took a leap of faith to found a church.

558
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:00,360
Yeah.

559
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,720
It's like, those are awesome.

560
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:03,720
That's incredible.

561
00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:11,800
And yet completely important resources that have nothing to do with what I draw for a

562
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:12,800
living.

563
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:13,800
Yeah.

564
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,800
That's beautiful.

565
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:23,680
Like there's, my mind went to like, there's plenty of successful people out there by the

566
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,680
world standards that success, like as in like financially successful, they're doing plenty

567
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,880
of people that they're really well for themselves.

568
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,080
But there aren't people that maybe you want to emulate.

569
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:38,240
And there's, can you really, you look at their success.

570
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:40,280
I feel like a lot of people like, man, what are they doing?

571
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,200
I want to do what they're doing so I can be where they're at.

572
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:47,120
And there's some credence to that.

573
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,880
Cause like maybe they have a certain mindset shift with shifts, but like then there's like,

574
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,760
who are they at their core?

575
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:59,080
And like, I don't want to like, I'm not going to put anybody on blast, but like there's,

576
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:07,200
like, I'll listen to people that are, that don't like, don't have faith that are very

577
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:11,160
successful, successful by the world standards because they have certain practices that I

578
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,400
can glean from that I can get in from.

579
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:21,040
I can like, that I can like, I can use that to grow and I can apply it myself to, to my

580
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,720
faith and I can work.

581
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:25,880
I can like, I can learn from that.

582
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:34,000
There's, then there's, I guess what I'm trying to say is like, you want to be careful who

583
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,280
you're choosing to be in proximity to.

584
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:42,960
There's, you know, this is funny.

585
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:49,440
I say this a lot, but like this podcast is like, it's not like a, I don't market it out

586
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:50,440
there.

587
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,160
I think it might be like a subcategory on this podcast.

588
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:57,880
Like I don't market it as like a fully Christian podcast, but like, because I'm like, I'm a

589
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,560
Christian with a podcast.

590
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:05,320
That's kind of like, I am like, and so like, I don't have to, like, it's not a, something

591
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:10,920
I'm, I'm not, I used to word calling, which is a very kind of Christian-ese word.

592
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:17,240
Can you look up the word calling on like Apple podcast and it's like all Christian podcasts.

593
00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:27,720
But like, but like, I, I wanted to, there's, God just comes up all the time.

594
00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:31,040
And there's all, like a lot of times up at the time, you talk about like finding those

595
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:38,080
people that are people with faith that, that are successful because of what they built

596
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:39,400
with the Lord.

597
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,560
And what, and it took that first.

598
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:47,760
Like, I've heard Mark story before about like how they started to give more.

599
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:52,600
And then like the Lord and the Lord in there and their experience and for them, like, he

600
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:57,200
started to give back and he was like, so we just started getting more.

601
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,400
And like, and like, that's not like, he's not gonna leave everybody like, like financial,

602
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:07,480
like quote unquote freedom because they ties, but like, but you can also give you, it gives

603
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:08,480
you things in other ways.

604
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:09,880
Like it's not just financial return.

605
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,320
It's like, it's a life, it's like things he gives you in your life.

606
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,040
It's like how he grows you as a person.

607
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:20,120
It's like these different, like, like you said, like, for, like it's those thoughts of like,

608
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:25,960
hey, I'm gonna email this person and I'm gonna email this person or make this phone call.

609
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:30,160
And I'm going to, um, you can stop me.

610
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:35,120
It's like, this is like sounding like, I sound, I think maybe something I'm saying can be

611
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:36,120
confusing.

612
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,920
I'm fine with being corrected, but like there's, um, like,

613
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:44,520
there's something to be said about the way that the Lord honors the steps that we take

614
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,800
with our eyes fixed on him.

615
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,600
And it's, you know, you are correct in saying that it doesn't matter.

616
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:57,760
Like tithing is not so that we individually glean financial freedom.

617
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:02,680
If we view it that way, it's solely a prosperity gospel in the same way that it's very easy

618
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,800
to be like, okay, Lord, well, I'm going to do this thing so that you give me something

619
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,480
in return.

620
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:15,200
But I think there is evidence in scripture and time and time again, a witness to what

621
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:21,480
it means to walk out our life in partnership with the one who created us and to honor him

622
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:27,480
with everything that we do and checking our heart posture as we do all of those things.

623
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:32,960
So am I checking my heart posture when I'm going into a moment to have a conversation

624
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:38,240
at a coffee shop because I personally want to be more financially free and make more

625
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:43,960
money in the world and have a career that is deemed successful by the world?

626
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:49,680
Or do I want to honor a person that the Lord has created with their time and the talents

627
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:54,560
and gifts that they've been given to simply sit in front of them and ask questions and

628
00:43:54,560 --> 00:44:00,240
give them a moment to share their story and watch as the Lord uses their story to shape

629
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:01,760
my perspective.

630
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:09,880
And when I think about tithing in the church, it's often that my heart changes as much as

631
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,600
my financial position may also change.

632
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:21,240
That is not near as extreme as the change in what it means to give with empathy and

633
00:44:21,240 --> 00:44:28,480
give completely free of any perspective that I have to hold on to something because it's

634
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:33,320
mine to have and that this is all the Lord is deserving of.

635
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:39,720
And so I think it's again, it sums up in how am I, what is my heart posture as I'm having

636
00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:44,000
all of those conversations and entering into those moments and sitting at the feet of leaders

637
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:49,960
that the Lord has put in front of me and honoring the gift that he has given them, honoring

638
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:57,280
the person that he has created them to be and allowing the Lord to use that to have influence

639
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:05,200
over my life both tangibly in my career because it certainly has and also intangibly in the

640
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:12,360
shifting of heart posture in the way that I view the people that the Lord has created,

641
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,360
the way that I walk every day.

642
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:15,360
Yeah.

643
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:21,560
That's what I was saying really well.

644
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,760
It's a heart posture in other ways, I think it's foundation.

645
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,760
What are you voting off of?

646
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,440
But we'll leave that at that.

647
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:39,880
I want to move into like, I wanted to question that we talked about stresses and worries

648
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:50,440
and like whenever you, there's a time I think everybody has when like work gets stressful

649
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,920
and there, especially when it's something that you're really passionate about, it can

650
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,400
feel sometimes really deliberate.

651
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,960
I can't say the word.

652
00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:01,960
It's debilitating.

653
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:02,960
Yes.

654
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:09,680
And so whenever that happens, like what do you do?

655
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,520
How do you manage that?

656
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:16,760
This is where I learn the art form of daily depending on the Lord because not always

657
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,120
responding the best.

658
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:27,440
And I think it, I come from a profession that has a lot of daily stress.

659
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:32,640
I come from a work environment that was extremely stressful up until a couple of months ago

660
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:38,840
and walking out the lived reality of I have walked through a door that I feel like the

661
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,400
Lord has opened and that does not mean that it was rainbows and butterflies on the other

662
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:48,920
side or the grass being greener or any of the fun phrases you could think of.

663
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:57,400
And there are plenty of days in which I encounter stress or frustration at work or whatever

664
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:58,840
it may be.

665
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:06,000
And in those moments, it's this beautiful stirring of the enemy to say, now is when

666
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:15,240
I'm going to pull you as far from the source of calm and the source of peace.

667
00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:20,000
And I'm going to give you this sense that you have to take all control and that all

668
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,760
of this is resting on your shoulders.

669
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:29,640
And I say it's beautiful because it is truly this most perfect twisting of where I can

670
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:35,360
be, where I should be and what I have access to and what I ultimately end up walking out.

671
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:42,360
So in a lot of those moments, I end up sitting for a second being like, okay, well, I have

672
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:47,800
to do X, Y and Z and I have to ensure that all of these things are done and I have to

673
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:53,960
manage these four people and I have to clearly communicate to principles and bosses at work

674
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:58,280
and say, you have overlapping responsibilities, we need to shift deadlines.

675
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:04,960
And all of a sudden, I becomes the most common word that I use.

676
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:12,040
And slowly my reaction time is getting better of like, oh, let's pump the brakes for a second.

677
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:18,200
Let's sit in why I think that I am responsible for fixing this right now.

678
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:24,960
Why do I believe that my entire work stress is sitting on my two shoulders and take a

679
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,800
second to pause because I think the enemy wants us stressed out.

680
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:35,200
I think the enemy wants us in moments like that because it's ungodly confusing.

681
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:41,120
It's extremely overwhelming to be in a moment where all of a sudden I feel like I am carrying

682
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,800
the entire burden.

683
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:49,720
And yet time and time again, we see in scripture, nope, that's not the point.

684
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:54,000
I really don't want you to carry the entire burden on your shoulders.

685
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:58,760
Instead, you're supposed to cast that at the feet of Jesus, cast that at the cross that

686
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:05,080
has already forgiven, that has already made a way where there was no way that has already

687
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:09,760
given you immeasurable peace.

688
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,200
But the enemy doesn't want me to remember that.

689
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:17,880
Stress is for me, one of the easiest ways the enemy convinces me to forget all of that,

690
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,680
all that I know.

691
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:25,040
And that sounds like a very hyper spiritual way of approaching stress in the work environment.

692
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:33,160
But truly, when it comes down to it, if my constant thinking is focused on stress and

693
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:39,360
focused on what I have to do in order to fix said stress, I am taking back control and

694
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:47,960
I am intentionally putting space between myself and the Creator that has made a way in this

695
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,280
moment.

696
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:53,280
Just because I have peace from the Lord does not mean that stress is going to go away,

697
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,480
but my peace from the Lord adjusts my attitude.

698
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:01,600
My peace from the Lord adjusts my perspective on what that stress actually means and looks

699
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:02,600
like.

700
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:04,240
That stress is not the end of the world.

701
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:10,840
I spent most of my afternoon yesterday coordinating thousands of dollars of print material for

702
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,760
public meetings next week in Cleveland.

703
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,720
Truly one of the more stressful things I have done this week to try and figure out how to

704
00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:19,160
get all of this done.

705
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,800
And in every one of those moments, I was like, well, I have this to-do list to keep track

706
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:24,800
of.

707
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,640
I have these two interns and this landscape architect who are all doing work from me.

708
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,920
I'm managing two bosses who are on vacation.

709
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,480
And meanwhile, I have an entirely different project team who is questioning why I have

710
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:39,760
yet to work on anything they have asked me to in the last two weeks.

711
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,600
And I sit in that moment and I'm like, I'm not worthy.

712
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:43,840
I'm not good enough.

713
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:45,600
I can't accomplish this.

714
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,760
Why did someone hire me to do this job?

715
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:57,920
All our lies and all I need is 30 seconds to state out loud that all of those are lies.

716
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:02,200
I need 30 seconds to take a moment and say, Lord, that's not from you.

717
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:03,800
Lord, that's not from you either.

718
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:07,720
Lord, that is alive the enemy and I would like to send it back where it came from.

719
00:51:07,720 --> 00:51:13,520
And I would like you to remind me that you put me here, that you made a way for me to

720
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:17,320
be here, that you have equipped me with everything that I need.

721
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,720
And that does not mean I am independently equipped.

722
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:26,680
That means I am equipped both myself and with the people that you have given me in order

723
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,400
to accomplish what is in front of me.

724
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,040
And that 30 seconds makes a world of difference.

725
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:37,480
That 30 seconds changes what stress means and looks like that takes the pressure off.

726
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:41,240
That says stress is not my identity.

727
00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:42,480
Yeah.

728
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,200
And again, sounds like a very Jesus answer.

729
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:52,840
However, if I view it as an attack of my identity and not just a I'm stressed out in this moment,

730
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:56,840
what on earth am I going to do to get all of this done?

731
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:01,440
It changes everything in that moment.

732
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,280
And sometimes we do it really well.

733
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,640
Sometimes we don't at all.

734
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:12,640
Sometimes we need to go back to the Lord and repent for the fun vocabulary that we used

735
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:16,560
as we were thinking through all of the things that we had to do in those moments of stress.

736
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:21,560
And that's just vulnerability at its finest to say, we do not do it perfectly and I certainly

737
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,200
don't.

738
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:33,360
But if I can take that time, if I can readjust my thinking, yes, I'm stressed, but I remember

739
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:35,880
that the Lord sits above my stress.

740
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:41,440
And so because I am seated at the right hand with Jesus as a result of being saved, I am

741
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:44,240
also sitting on top of my stress.

742
00:52:44,240 --> 00:52:47,240
So I am a conqueror and co-heir with Christ.

743
00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:48,240
Okay, great.

744
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:50,320
Let's remember all of that truth.

745
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:55,880
Just say all of those things that determine our identity and allow that to be how I walk

746
00:52:55,880 --> 00:53:00,320
out what those stressful moments look like.

747
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:01,320
Yeah.

748
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:10,760
I think the one thing that we talked about a lot in the past with the men's ministry

749
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:19,760
with the ineffegians of Arm of God and it's remembering like, it's just like, I don't know

750
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:25,200
if it's like, I'll tell myself sometimes, I'm like, okay, it's like not often enough,

751
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:26,960
but like I have done it before.

752
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,880
It's like, okay, let's put on the belt of truth.

753
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:30,880
Yes.

754
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,720
Let's just remember, like you said, just remember what the truth is.

755
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:35,720
Yes.

756
00:53:35,720 --> 00:53:40,240
He didn't, the Lord didn't breathe the scripture into existence so that we could draw cute

757
00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:46,240
pictures of it and think that it's something we only need in times where the wars in our

758
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:48,480
life feel the biggest.

759
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:55,120
We don't just need the Lord when things feel like nonsense is hitting the fan and our life

760
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:56,960
is falling apart.

761
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:02,400
I need the Lord maybe more walking through of my daily professional career.

762
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:09,520
I needed the Lord prior to driving here today because my very adorable dog really was not

763
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:13,600
fond of the idea that I was leaving the house and thought she should get to come with me.

764
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:18,440
I'm like, nope, okay Lord, where's that abundant patience?

765
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,280
Where's the fruit of the spirit at the moment?

766
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:28,320
Because I need it right now as much as I need it in life's biggest and most stressful moments.

767
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:33,520
And so again, I like to think of it, the pretty, the cute and adorable pictures help us learn

768
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:35,800
it as a child and that's beautiful.

769
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:41,080
The ability to draw and have visual representation of the scripture is so important and something

770
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:46,880
that has personally changed my life, but it isn't always just the cute and adorable pictures.

771
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,160
It is, well, I need it every day.

772
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:53,720
I got to put it on every day and I got to make the choice to put it on every day and

773
00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:56,800
I got to make the choice to use it in those moments.

774
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:02,640
I think it was Brandon during our Ephesians study, Pastor Brandon at Amplified Church.

775
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:07,480
I realize maybe could have just said more clearly that is how Thompson and I know each

776
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:13,920
other so I use these as very quick things, but Pastor Brandon at Amplified Church, I

777
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:20,640
think is a part of our Ephesians study was talking about the fact that we don't just

778
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,640
wake up and decide if we're going to worship.

779
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,120
We wake up and decide what we're going to worship.

780
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:34,680
And so I think the same thing is true of I get to wake up and decide not if I'm going

781
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:41,640
to let God have control, but what I'm going to let God have control of.

782
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:46,440
Am I going to let the Lord have control of all of it or am I going to give him a little

783
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:49,680
bit and I'm going to take this little bit and then I'm going to let, I'm going to succumb

784
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:53,560
to the enemy having that little bit over there.

785
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:57,240
And so that means daily I make this decision.

786
00:55:57,240 --> 00:56:01,920
Daily I put it at the feet of Jesus and putting it daily at the feet of Jesus does not somehow

787
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,240
mean that I have failed as a believer.

788
00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:05,240
Yeah.

789
00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:09,400
It means that I have reference and understanding of who my savior is.

790
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:10,400
Yeah.

791
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:11,400
Full stop.

792
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:12,400
Great.

793
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:14,400
No, that's awesome.

794
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:23,880
And to this will be, I want to ask you one more question before we move into the final,

795
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:27,080
final questions.

796
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:33,440
Just as a nice wrap up based off, based off of our conversation and between calling stress

797
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:38,520
and we didn't get into the identity question, but you did touch on it.

798
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:44,480
What kind of advice would you give to somebody that is looking to pursue their, want to pursue

799
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:49,680
something and their work and maybe they're worried about their identity.

800
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:55,960
They don't know that they, they be, they're stressed out in like, you know what, I was

801
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:57,480
going to let you interpret that.

802
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:58,480
Yeah.

803
00:56:58,480 --> 00:56:59,480
Like, yeah.

804
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:07,640
And my second point of encouragement is just to allow yourself the ability to relinquish

805
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:15,560
some of the stress that you are undue putting onto what purpose and call, these are big

806
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:22,200
words and we prioritize them sometimes in very negative ways.

807
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,280
And this is not just in the church.

808
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:31,600
This is in most industries, prioritizing professional advancement and saying that everything that

809
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:37,200
you do is somehow going to impact your ability to have the career that you want and shape

810
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:42,160
your ability to have this next promotion or this next title or whatever it may be.

811
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:49,280
And as a result of all of the factors around us that suggest that these are heavy things

812
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:56,440
to carry, we begin to assume a position of, well, I have to carry it all myself.

813
00:57:56,440 --> 00:58:03,880
And so somehow every conversation I have has to point me to what my next step is professionally

814
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:12,640
or every move that I make has to be advancement in some way or, you know, you name any one

815
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:19,240
of them and we put so much stress on it because we somehow think that all of a sudden, I'm

816
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:26,920
like, it's all on us to do this or everything that we do is going to have some impact on

817
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,440
this thing that we have in front of us.

818
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:36,400
And we got to let go of some of that.

819
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:40,720
I know we didn't talk a lot about identity, but a lot of my professional career for the

820
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:47,280
last five and a half years caused significant identity issues because I was putting so much

821
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:54,840
pressure on what people thought of me because of this really cool thing that I do.

822
00:58:54,840 --> 00:59:02,280
And if I didn't do this really cool thing anymore, was I worth anything to begin with?

823
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,880
And if I don't have this really cool thing as a part of my life and this really small

824
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:10,400
firm that is this picture perfect vision of what everyone thinks my professional career

825
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:15,520
should be, well, if I don't have that anymore, what am I worth as a person?

826
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:20,120
And that's a lot of unnecessary pressure to put on a job.

827
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:21,440
Truly.

828
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,760
And all of that was manmade stress.

829
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:31,520
Every last bit of it was me taking into account opinions that were not as important as my

830
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:32,840
saviors.

831
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:40,080
It took into account me having a lot of control and me being able to achieve what everyone

832
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:46,480
else said was perfectly crafted for me, and I do think the Lord made me for such a time

833
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:47,480
as this.

834
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:53,720
I do think that the Lord gifted me and equipped me with what I need to walk out this specific

835
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:56,200
job that I do on a daily basis.

836
00:59:56,200 --> 01:00:02,760
And I would be remiss to not say I am extremely grateful and humbled that I get to do this

837
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:04,600
thing.

838
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:10,640
But if I allow myself to suggest that that's where everything comes from, I've completely

839
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:12,680
negated the point of salvation.

840
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:17,360
I've completely negated the gospel in an instant.

841
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:20,800
And that stress has to get removed.

842
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:30,920
We have to quit tying our identities to big words like purpose and calling because we

843
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:34,680
were just talking this week about the fact that we're all called to be preachers.

844
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:38,800
That doesn't mean I need the title preacher in order to do that.

845
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:43,720
That means that I am equipped and called to also bring people into glory someday.

846
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:48,320
That I have the responsibility to share who the Lord is with someone as much as I have

847
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:53,400
the responsibility and burden of sitting in my professional life and ensuring that every

848
01:00:53,400 --> 01:01:00,200
resident I speak to has a voice that's elevated in the design process as much as I hold responsibility

849
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:05,280
and weight and caring for the people that are around me as much as weight and responsibility

850
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:10,280
as I have at serving at the church on Sundays and at youth.

851
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:13,520
These are all pieces of our calling.

852
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:21,720
These are all moments of purpose that we have that we get to daily decide to walk out.

853
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:27,760
And if I put stress on one bucket of that and something crumbles, all of a sudden my

854
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:29,200
identity is in question.

855
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,960
All of a sudden my worth is in question.

856
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:35,440
And that's only one piece of an extremely beautiful picture.

857
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:40,400
And we have a lifetime to learn what that picture looks like.

858
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:45,440
We have a lifetime here on this side of heaven to walk with Jesus and uncover each little

859
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:46,720
bit of it.

860
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:52,880
And I don't want to miss any of those because I was too busy saying I have a lot of pressure

861
01:01:52,880 --> 01:02:01,160
in order to have a nine to five job that is my purpose because there's so much purpose

862
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:05,840
and calling to be had outside of that nine to five also.

863
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,400
And so just take the pressure off.

864
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:14,720
Relieve yourself of the worry and stress that comes with the word calling to say, okay,

865
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:17,120
Lord, well, what have you called me to today?

866
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:18,120
Yeah.

867
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:22,320
Okay, Lord, what am I doing today in my job outside of my job in the lives of the people

868
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:26,320
that I love that you've put in front of me to steward right now in the people who don't

869
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:28,240
know you yet?

870
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:32,880
And let that be, let that be the thing that brings joy.

871
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:39,720
Let that be the thing that expands our opportunity and our understanding so that there's a lot

872
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:43,040
less pressure if I leave my job after five and a half years.

873
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:47,000
It was a beautiful experience and I would not negate for any reason the way the Lord

874
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:50,200
used my job for five and a half years.

875
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:55,040
He's doing something equally as beautiful now in a completely new place and that's okay.

876
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:58,200
And that's actually a really great thing.

877
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:04,640
So but that comes with I'm repeating myself, but all that stress, just back it off a bit

878
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:11,680
and it out of the picture and allow yourself to see all of who you are as a result of all

879
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:13,680
of who Jesus is.

880
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:14,680
Yeah.

881
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:15,680
It's great.

882
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:21,880
I really appreciate when I just appreciate you being here like I said in the beginning

883
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:30,280
of the episode, but there's I really appreciate the way you phrase things and I feel like

884
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:36,520
you've talked with people so much probably really helps you like be as good of a speaker

885
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:38,520
that you are as you are.

886
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:43,080
I find like I'm there and I hear people talking like I'm jumbling my words and all this stuff

887
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:47,520
of them, but like it's even like identity is in this podcast.

888
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:51,760
It's like if this podcast for some reason ends like that's okay.

889
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:52,760
Yeah.

890
01:03:52,760 --> 01:04:00,120
I don't want it to, but like if it does, then then it does and like it would and it would

891
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:06,880
be a and I'd still be a child of God.

892
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:07,880
Yeah.

893
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:11,200
And that's and you kind of summed that up well.

894
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:12,200
Yeah.

895
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:19,800
So I like to end every episode with just two questions really to get.

896
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:22,800
I know you said, you don't listen to a lot of podcasts and stuff like that.

897
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:23,800
I know.

898
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:25,800
No, no, no, you're good.

899
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:27,800
It's okay.

900
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:35,320
There's I know I always ask people like what kind of resources do you and we talked about

901
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:36,920
that even a lot already.

902
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:44,760
So whether it whether it's a physical resource or whatever you whatever you want to say,

903
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:52,080
what kind of resources do you could you direct people towards to pursue to help them with

904
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:56,800
their calling and leadership, whatever, like it's for floors yours.

905
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:57,800
Love that.

906
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:02,480
I am really bad at finishing books also.

907
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:03,720
I have started.

908
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:08,680
I have a whole stack on my bookshelf of things that I've started and I see lead like it matters

909
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:11,200
and I on yours and I have that book at home.

910
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:16,160
I think I was given it for Christmas as a part of our staff Christmas gift exchange

911
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:17,160
last year.

912
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:26,160
But I have I've read a really beautiful snippets from people like Judas Smith and oh gosh,

913
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:33,560
I can picture the cover of this incredible book that takes stories from the gospel and

914
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:34,840
rewrite them.

915
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:42,520
But it walks them out in a way that just like helps paint really lovely pictures of the

916
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:44,640
the intentionality behind scripture.

917
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:46,920
We have a lot of scripture translation issues.

918
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:51,200
And so when you think about things like reading the passion translation in conjunction with

919
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:55,240
something like the NLT, I love reading things like the passion translation because it tries

920
01:05:55,240 --> 01:06:00,280
to get to the emotion in the heart behind scripture.

921
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:03,360
And so I can think of all of these half read books that I also don't remember the titles

922
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:07,080
or authors of which is so not helpful in this moment.

923
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:11,440
So I'll just repeat the earlier statement of just get plugged in.

924
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:14,200
Put yourself in proximity.

925
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:19,160
And so that sometimes means jumping on zoom calls with a bunch of people you may not know

926
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:22,440
with a podcaster that you really admire.

927
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:27,600
That may also mean getting plugged in in a local interest group or your church small

928
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:29,280
groups or whatever else.

929
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:35,920
There are groups of people doing all sorts of unique and creative things all over the

930
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:36,920
place.

931
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:37,920
Yeah.

932
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:44,920
I spent a summer in Detroit painting murals with an organization called summer in the

933
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:45,920
city.

934
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:46,920
We would design murals.

935
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:50,280
We'd draw them up on the wall like paint by giant paint by numbers.

936
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:54,880
And then we would bring in high school students to take a red solo cup filled with paint and

937
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:57,880
they would have to match the color of the paint in their cup to the color of the paint

938
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:01,200
on the wall in this area that they were supposed to paint.

939
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:05,200
And I spent all summer doing this and it was really just a great way of getting to know

940
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:06,320
the city of Detroit.

941
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:09,880
A city that I had just moved to that I knew nothing about because I had to drive all over

942
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:13,920
the place to all of the sites that we were painting.

943
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:20,200
And that has nothing to do seemingly on the surface with anything about pursuing my calling

944
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:23,640
anything about purpose driven life.

945
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:27,480
But I live in this city now and want to get to know it.

946
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:29,400
And so that's how I get plugged in.

947
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:35,720
And that's just another way of being in proximity to people and resources and things that you

948
01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:41,640
love and exploring gifts and talents that you have that you don't get to use on a daily

949
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:50,960
basis and allowing yourself the freedom to do those things and do them with the Lord.

950
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:56,000
Do them walk out every moment of like OK Lord I'm going to go hammock now with you in the

951
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:59,480
park and I'm going to explore this new park I've never been to.

952
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:03,880
And that can be equally as valuable as OK Lord I'm going to do the uncomfortable thing and

953
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:07,040
send the email.

954
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:10,360
Sometimes that means starting with a Google search and Google is great.

955
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:14,320
It'll tell you all sorts of people that exist in the world that do things.

956
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:19,600
Sometimes it is just where can I go to explore some other part of me.

957
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:21,400
But put yourself in proximity.

958
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:23,800
That'll be my sum up statement.

959
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:24,800
That's great.

960
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:29,000
And if that means putting yourself in proximity to bookstores if you see me in person ask

961
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:32,440
again and I promise I will remember whatever books I've half started.

962
01:08:32,440 --> 01:08:34,440
That might be helpful.

963
01:08:34,440 --> 01:08:35,440
Yeah.

964
01:08:35,440 --> 01:08:38,640
I'm going to sum it up with that.

965
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:39,640
You already summed up.

966
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:40,640
But I think it plugged in guys.

967
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:41,640
Yes.

968
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:42,640
Not meant to do life alone.

969
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:43,640
Yeah.

970
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:45,800
So get my first night serving at youth.

971
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:48,080
I met a student who wants to be an architect.

972
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:49,080
Wow.

973
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:50,080
I was like that's random.

974
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:51,080
Yeah.

975
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:52,080
Thanks Lord.

976
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:53,240
All because I'm at youth.

977
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:54,240
Like yeah.

978
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:55,240
I was kept plugged in.

979
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:56,240
That's great.

980
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:58,560
So many good people in the world.

981
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:05,440
And then so you say you don't listen to podcasts but there's now that you know you've got a

982
01:09:05,440 --> 01:09:08,120
feel for this one.

983
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:10,600
Who would you recommend as a guest to be on?

984
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:11,600
Mel McFarland.

985
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:13,600
There we go.

986
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:16,520
I don't I apologize because I don't listen to podcasts very much.

987
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:20,400
I've already spoken to her but Mel McFarland would be at the top of my list.

988
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:21,400
All right.

989
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:32,120
So when you think of someone who has laid down one very distinct path of life to pursue

990
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:33,600
what the Lord has on her heart.

991
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:34,600
Yeah.

992
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:35,600
She's a really interesting story.

993
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:36,600
That's great.

994
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:37,600
Thank you.

995
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:38,600
She's fantastic.

996
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:40,840
She's also just one of my favorite humans.

997
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:41,840
All right.

998
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:48,960
Well guys, thank you for listening to I think now the officially they keep getting longer

999
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:51,680
and longer every single episode.

1000
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:53,480
Thanks for sticking it out.

1001
01:09:53,480 --> 01:09:58,000
Thank you for listening to this episode of the pursuit of calling the first time I got

1002
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:01,120
to say that.

1003
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:08,120
And guys, if you haven't already give this episode give this podcast five stars on Apple

1004
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:11,600
podcast, Spotify, wherever you can review.

1005
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:15,720
And I just found out recently that on Spotify it's not called reviews because this leave

1006
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:16,720
me a comment.

1007
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:22,920
So if you guys want to leave a comment on this episode, that would be fantastic.

1008
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:26,600
It really helps with getting this podcast out there.

1009
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:30,040
It tells the algorithm that people listen and people are interested.

1010
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:35,920
And then also helps a lot is if you whenever I, well, you can just share this podcast out

1011
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:36,920
on this episode.

1012
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:40,520
If you really found it interesting on social media, that'd be fantastic.

1013
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:43,680
So guys, thank you again.

1014
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:53,840
I'll see you next time.