Hey guys, and welcome to this episode of Technically Short.
In this episode, I got to sit down with Leah Gasowski.
Well, you heard it from her husband last week, and this conversation was fantastic.
She really dived into her faith a lot about what it means to follow your passions and
follow your goals, follow your dreams, while also laying them down whenever the sacrifice
needs to be made.
What does that mean?
Well, we'll dive into that a lot during the episode, so make sure to stick around for
the whole thing.
Also, if you would be so kind to leave a word review, an actual review of this episode or
of the podcast on Apple or Spotify, that would be fantastic.
It really helps out the algorithm and lets people know what you think.
Then also give us a follow and a five star review.
All right.
See you in the episode.
All right guys.
So I'm here with Leah Gasowski.
Hello.
Leah, last week you heard from Rob, her husband, and I think a lot of things I said about Rob
I could also say about Leah, but she also... Usually I have things written down as
an intro piece, but as we were saying earlier, I was less prepared.
Leah's less prepared, I told listeners from hearing this for a second time, but I was
telling Rob one of the main things I vividly remember from both of you was that you guys
were the first people to show me how to worship in the home.
And that was whenever we were there, I was there with Austin and you guys put something
from the upper room on the TV and you were like, do you know what they're saying?
Do you know what this means?
I was like, no.
That was definitely a pinnacle point of me really growing in my faith.
Wow.
That's beautiful.
But yeah, I think there's just for the listeners, Leah, she's definitely one of those people
that always have a smile on her face and that whenever you see her, she has this fun, sometimes
goofy personality that does brighten up the room.
And I think it's really also very good with very prominent for what she does leading Amplify
Youth.
So guys, well, Leah, for those who don't know you and maybe didn't want to know you a little
bit more, who is Leah Gasowski?
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much, Thomas.
I'm so excited to be here.
I think anytime I'm asked to share anything, it's such an honor.
I don't take that lightly.
I don't know who recommended me to Thomas, but I want to say thank you.
It's absolutely honoring and I'm very flattered.
So thank you.
Who am I?
Wow.
What a loaded question.
So a little bit about me.
I love Jesus.
That's probably the most important thing.
I am a wife to Rob Gasowski, who you guys heard from before you're hearing this.
Maybe you're not.
Maybe you're listening to this first, but if you haven't heard from him, you will hear
from him.
And then so I am married to Rob.
We've been married for about four years now, going on four years or going on five years,
married for four years.
I currently I'm not actually on staff at the church.
I am a volunteer.
I volunteer probably, I don't know, I don't know, can't put hours to it, but it's probably
like part time equivalent.
It's what I do in my time outside of work.
So kind of like, I guess, by vocational season of my life.
So I help lead amplify youth, our youth group at our church, which we love so much.
And I also I'm actually just starting a new job.
So I recently just this last week and did finished out my job at a wonderful organization
where I was able to serve veterans who were at risk for homelessness or experiencing homelessness.
It was extremely rewarding and absolutely amazing what God has been able to do in just
my I think I was I've only been there for like six months.
So in that time, that was really beautiful.
And now next week, I'm going to be getting a job as a project manager at a nonprofit
in downtown Pittsburgh.
And they focus on trauma informed community development.
And so I'll be project managing there.
And I start that on Monday.
So it's very exciting.
So that's kind of like what I do, I guess.
I just shared a lot about what I do.
But who am I?
I love Jesus.
And I really just want people know Jesus.
I want people to know Him for themselves and to be able to walk out their faith in every
aspect of their life and not just have a relationship on Sundays.
But that really is what drives me.
So that's who I am.
I also have three dogs.
We have three dogs and we also are believing for a family.
So we're believing for a baby that in the right time, God's going to give us a healthy
baby.
So that's just a little bit about me.
And I like to travel.
That's probably important, too.
I really like to travel and I like I like I like brunch.
I like breakfast food.
I love breakfast.
I haven't had breakfast in such a long time.
It is my favorite type of food.
I can have it at any time of day.
Go to like Denny's and get I think they have like the slam, the breakfast slam.
Any time of day you can find me eating breakfast food.
That's great.
Could you what's the name of the nonprofit?
So the one that I was recently working for is called Shepherd's Heart Fellowship.
And the one that I'm going to be working for is called Neighborhood Resilience Project.
So if you're wondering if you're like looking for good causes and organizations to look
into if you're listening to this, you should check them out because God is doing some really
amazing work through them.
Neighborhood Resilience Project, isn't that that's what Q works for.
It is.
I've heard this before.
Yes.
And if you haven't had him on the podcast, he's a good he's a good person to ask as well.
So you like one of our two remote episodes, we actually have a video for his.
Oh, that's awesome.
That's great.
I love that.
Yeah, that was also one we did with Sean was a here for.
Nice.
It was pretty cool.
That's great.
But the.
So this podcast, technically short and soon to be rebranded, is about really about pursuing
the call pursuing your calling and like really what was talking about, like what that means
and really all aspects of calling purpose, etc.
So like these two things that you've done recently, like or will be one that we will
be doing soon, like they I feel like there is a very particular passion that you have
and could you dive into that?
What is this passion that you have?
Yeah, I mean, I there's sometimes ways it's hard to explain it because I do believe I
there's things that I feel like I'm passionate about that I don't fully know why.
If that makes sense, you're kind of like, where does this come from?
Like, does this make any sense?
I do believe God gives each and every one of us very specific things that we're drawn
to, that we're gifted in, that we're passionate about and that we just deeply that breaks
our hearts.
Right.
Like I my hope would be from not only my life, but for everyone that either I'm discipling
or I'm walking with or just doing life with would be that we would allow God to break
our hearts for what breaks his.
And I think those sometimes that can specifically show up in us in a maybe sometimes a very
specific need.
Right.
Like there are certain people who are very, very passionate and drawn to certain causes.
I'm probably drawn to like a handful of them, but each one, I think I've been able to kind
of see God's guidance in my life.
Looking back, I think when I was for me, it started when I was really, really little.
I remember I went to a really small private Christian school, like really small when I
was young.
And I remember one time driving downtown for something with my dad.
And I remember seeing like a homeless encampment and tents and things.
And I remember, I think that's the first time that I recall asking my dad, hey dad, like
what's going on here?
And I was kind of like, I was initially sad about it.
I was very sad.
I was a little confused like what's going on here.
And then as my dad was kind of teaching me about just, hey, this is the situation that
some people are in.
And it's a complex situation.
And I'm a little kid asking about it.
And I remember just at first feeling really sad and then very angry and angry like for
them of, I don't really know what's going on, but I just want to do something about
it.
I was moved with compassion.
So I think from a really, really young age, I've had a lot of compassion.
And when I was like nine years old, I wanted to be a missionary.
Like I remember in my church, like every second Sunday of the month, we'd have like mission
Sunday and kids church, they would highlight some missionary in some part of the world
where in some places it was harder to advance the gospel and share about Jesus than others.
And they would share about these different cultures and these different places where
missionaries are trying to share the word of God.
And I remember hearing that and being like, oh my gosh, there's people who don't know
about Jesus.
And I think there's like a couple of different facets of it.
But as I've gotten older, I think I've seen just a thread of things that sometimes I'm
like, yeah, God, why is this the, you know, why this thing?
And I really, I don't necessarily know that I know a reason why other than I think that
it's given by God.
And it's because he wants his name to be known.
He wants to get the glory.
But also I think we have a part to play in the restoration.
So he specializes in restoring.
We see it all the way from Genesis to Revelation.
And after the fall, we're in the Garden of Eden and then the fall happens.
And then we go all the way to the end of Revelation and where do we end up right back in his presence,
unhindered by anything in the new heavens and new earth.
And so he's in the process of restoration.
And I think that that's kind of been a theme for me is how can I be an agent of that restoration
specifically in the areas of serving people who are what really stirs my heart is as people
who maybe are in need or under under resource, underprivileged, marginalized, kind of like
the people who are on the outs of society and the culture, but also sharing.
It's like bottom line is like sharing Jesus.
But I think there's a lot of actions we can do that also share Jesus.
So I've kind of just seen this theme in my life all the way from probably that experience
seeing a homeless encampment to when I was in college.
And I remember like when I first got to give my life to Jesus, started going to church,
I'm like, I want to go on a mission trip and kind of getting experience for missions.
But then even here at home, really feeling heartbroken by injustice and seeing seeing
injustice and knowing people who have experienced it and just being like, OK, God, what is my
part to play?
And it's kind of like a weird thing to explain, but it's like this.
I don't know.
Maybe if you're listening, you know what I'm talking about.
Thomas, you may know I'm talking about.
But it's like when there's something that just moves your spirit so much, it kind of
can feel like for me, it will feel like this like this is such a weird way to explain it.
But it's the only way to know how it's like a stirring in your spirit or like almost in
like your stomach.
It's and you're like, I have to move.
I have to act now.
I have an urgency around it.
And then I get frustrated if I can't move.
So I I I hope that answers the question.
I think I think it's from God and I don't fully always know what he wants to do with
it other than I'm just I'm just one piece of the puzzle of his big picture.
And I just want to play whatever piece that is in that restoration.
Yeah.
No, no, that's awesome.
That's a lot of how you answer that question.
I do 100 percent understand that and get that because at least from like the perspective
of not knowing where the passion comes from sometimes.
Because like, yeah, I won't dive too far into my because I feel like the listeners have
heard my stuff a lot.
But like, but no, I 100 percent get that.
I feel like there's going to be some listeners that like that's one thing I'm like, I want
to make a solo episode about the past about passion.
That's something we talked about.
Robin I talked about even like like where do you start?
Like you start with the passion.
Like what are you like?
It's like I hear the this is a whole tangent I could go on.
But there's a whole idea.
There's something I can like, OK, real quick.
There's this advice that people give.
That they don't start with your passion.
People say like, don't start with your passion about because you could be passionate about
the wrong things.
And I'm like, I'm like, and I'm like, that's true.
But I'm like, it's also for me, I'm like, I feel like passion itself is a building block.
And like you have to start somewhere.
And so like, and like some people, they feel like they talk about like making money, like
you want to make money.
Don't start with what you're passionate about.
And that's like, well, that's like, that defeats the purpose of purpose.
I feel like if you're not passionate about what you're doing, that I don't see a point
to it.
I think that's interesting.
I think personally, I do kind of see where someone's coming from.
We may not be.
I think we do have to be cautious in that regard of what actually what are we passionate
about?
Because as specifically as believers, I believe that God does position us and calls us and
he uniquely gifts us even for certain things that he's asked us to do.
I mean, there's a lot of things I'm passionate about.
I don't think I'm good enough to even like work in those areas.
Right?
Like I have things I deeply, deeply care about.
But I think that maybe I'm sometimes I'm like, maybe I'm not the one who is meant to maybe
it's not right now.
Right now thing.
I would say I would say if someone is like, what do I do with this?
I would just I my continuous thing I go back to is just asking God break my heart for what
breaks yours.
Yeah.
And and don't be surprised when you because here's the thing, if I'm here for a certain
amount of time on this earth, I want it to be for something worthy of of living for.
And I mean, I do believe that's Jesus.
And I believe that when we're following Jesus, when we give him, we give him our lives, we
give him our time, we even we sometimes we even have to sacrifice those passions and
dreams on.
We have to sacrifice them and be like, OK, God, if they are actually of you, if they're
from him, he's going to make them grow in his time.
And we have to trust that.
So I kind of I kind of like I'm like agreeing with both of those sentiments.
Because passion is also hard.
I mean, we we sometimes refer to Jesus's death and death on the cross as like the passion
of the Christ.
Yeah.
And here's the interesting thing about passion is like it's probably at some point, you're
probably going to have to suffer for it.
And so if it's something you're not if you're not willing to count the cost of that thing,
you might want to you might want to slow down because it's costly.
I do believe when when God asks you to lay down your life for something greater than
you, it's a costly thing.
And I do think we can have worthwhile pursuits and pursuits that really aren't as grand
as we think they are.
Like like in our minds, they may be the most significant thing.
But to God, he's like, hey, let me show you what really truly matters to me.
And honestly, he can do so much more.
He can do so much more than than what we want, what we desire.
We're just we're just in service to him.
And what he wants is greater because he's a good God.
Yeah.
No, that's I think I think you like I don't know if you like technically were pushing
back, but I think I agree with both.
I see both.
But I think time like I appreciate that because now I want different perspectives and like
you said you were talking about like sacrifice and I think they have sacrificed for passions.
Has that ever happened?
Like what are some of these things you've had to give up for for your passions?
Absolutely.
I mean, not everybody.
So not everybody is called to, you know, be a pastor in the church or be like even even
in the church world.
I mean, we want it's it's our desire that people would serve and contribute to the local
church.
Right.
But even speaking from a like more ministry focused perspective, I mean, there's a lot
of things I feel like I've had to you have to sacrifice in that role specifically when
you're in a pastoral position.
I mean, you have to in general, if I would say even just following Jesus, there's so
many things I've had to sacrifice.
I mean, you have to sacrifice what seems fun in the moment.
Like that's a cost.
What seems really, really fun and good to you in the moment or may seem fun and good
to everybody else.
You got to lay that down.
Yeah.
You have to be there to, you know, I want to go do what everybody else around me is
doing, what the world's doing.
And you have to lay that down because it's because it's not always what you're meant
to be doing.
It looks like sacrificing time.
I mean, there's a lot of times where if I don't and this is just life.
I mean, I think, yes, boundaries, there's healthy boundaries to have whether you are
working a full time job or you're in vocational ministry.
Like no matter where you are, you need to have healthy boundaries.
At the same time, sometimes life just happens and it happens to you and it happens to the
people around you.
And there's times I've had to sacrifice my comfort, my time to kind of sit with somebody
when they're really struggling with something and they're like, I need someone right now
and be like, OK, I'm going to sacrifice what I want in this moment to kind of be with this
person and hold them, create space for them.
I think that's something that you have to sacrifice.
And I think honestly, like my own, I think my own dreams in some ways I've had to sacrifice.
These things that years ago I was like, I really want to see this thing as this thing.
I don't think all those things were bad.
I mean, I have a my therapist a really long time ago when we first started meeting, she
encouraged me to create like a dream journal.
And so I have a stream journal at home that I have like that's my go to where like if
I have a night, sometimes I get like really big ideas, like whether it's a business or
a ministry or just something I really want to.
I just want to.
This would be cool to see.
I'm just to keep my like creative creativity flowing.
And she encouraged me to do that.
She said, and then when you get some more ideas, you go and you write and you make it
as detailed as possible.
Like just a dream.
Like if you had if you had all the resources and and what would it look like and all this
stuff.
And if I were to go look back on that, you would find that like there's not many of those
that have actually come to fruition.
And that's OK.
And I think that there's if we're being honest, even our dream to be my dream to be a mom
one day to be a parent, that might not happen in my timing.
And so I think you have to sacrifice no matter what you're doing.
I've personally I know I've had to sacrifice like this is what I want versus this is what's
actually happening.
You have to like balance this tension of unmet expectations, but trusting that when we when
we say yes to whatever God's asking us to do, it's going to be so much better.
I mean, I never ever in my life wanted to be a pastor.
Yeah.
Ever.
I mean, ever.
I mean, I want to be a missionary.
And that was it was not something that was on the table for me at some point was like,
I want to I want to work at a church.
And this is the position I want to.
It was never a goal of mine ever.
However, God has a way of when you say yes to him, taking your yes and turning it to
a million different things.
When I was and I went to I went to college for finance and economics, which is like hilarious
because I don't do like really anything right now.
Maybe I will soon, but I don't do anything directly.
And I remember graduating college and my dream at that time was I want to go into investment
banking and I'm going to make a ton of money.
And then I'm like, you know, maybe married by 27.
I had like my life planned out basically in my mind when I said yes to Jesus, when I laid
all that down.
I mean, I can't tell you how fast all of that just completely.
Every plan that I had, I remember it was to the point where I was like, OK, well, maybe
I'm going to take off some time after I graduate because I wanted I wanted to go and do like
economic research.
Yeah.
And I had a pastor, a college pastor at the time, who kind of laughed at me.
And he was like, why would you do that?
He's like, you should do something for ministry because we all know that's what you're going
to be doing anyways.
And I and I didn't see that.
Like, I did not see that at the time.
But I did end up graduating.
And instead of going into work and what I had originally hoped to do, I felt God instead
through and that's a it's a really long story that we don't have to get into.
But it was just a really long series of events over like a year where I felt God actually
stirring my heart to go do like a longer term type trip.
And so through that opportunity, got to go spend like four months in Kigali, Rwanda in
East Africa and serving in a ministry there.
And let me tell you, when I was when I came like when I experienced that, I came back
from that.
I just remember thinking like, wow, God has really completely transformed every dream
that I had.
I mean, I ended up getting married at 22 when I thought I was like, in my mind, I want to
get married in my late 20s.
And, you know, I had all these plans.
My plans went out the window whenever I said yes to what God was asking me to do.
And and I've had to let some things die.
And if if they're meant to happen, we have to trust God at his good time is going to
is going to make it happen.
And his time is always, always, always so much better than ours.
And looking now back at all of that, I'm like, wow, the things that God the places that God
has put me, the relationships, the people that we get to meet, the people we've gotten
to serve.
I'm like, wow, this is so much better.
This is so much better.
And I and even in this place, I never expected to be where I am even now.
Going into going back kind of into like a regular full time job, I wasn't expecting
that that also wasn't on my radar this year.
But even in that, I'm like, God, you're so good.
And how he just he he takes our yes, our laid down life and he makes it something so much
more than I could ever ask or think or imagine.
Man, there's like one thing that you said a lot about and I'm curious because my hope
is that this podcast is it doesn't just reach Christians, but people that believe in God,
but all the people that don't.
And so for those like you were saying the term like lay down a lot for those that maybe
don't understand what that means, like to lay like lay down something like for God or
just lay down something in general, like what what does that mean?
Like you were like you dove into it a lot.
Yeah.
But yeah, let's talk about that.
Well, for if I mean, if you're a follower of Jesus, you're probably familiar with this
passage.
I actually don't remember which gospel it's in.
I think I wrote it down, though, as I was praying and thinking about being on the show.
Jesus says he tells the disciples to take up their cross and follow him.
And when you think of when we think of the crucifixion, we think of the cross, we see
it now as a sign of a victory, right?
Because we know Jesus died.
He rose again, the tomb's empty.
So we were able as believers, we look at the cross today.
Thousands of years later, we see a symbol of victory in life and forgiveness like this
is what we see.
And in that time, as Jesus is saying, hey, take up your cross and follow me.
He's literally saying, I mean, like it's a it's a torture device.
It's a it's a it's a means of death and execution.
He's literally saying, take up your cross.
This this this thing, the symbol of death and follow me.
I mean, that's not exactly like a war rally cry.
If you think about it, you're like, Jesus, what are you saying?
I believe what he's saying is like, if you are saying if you want to follow me, die so
that you may live.
And obviously, he's speaking of he's not saying, you know, like physically die.
He's saying death in the sense of like, die to yourself, die to to your desires, what
you what you think is best, your plans, your dreams, your way of life, everything, everything
that that is you, you, you like, let it die and take take up that cross and follow me.
And I believe he's basically saying, like, let those things literally be crucified.
And along with the things getting crucified is our sin and it is our shame.
But it's also our the human nature in us that it's like selfish, selfishness.
It's what we want.
It's our selfish ambition.
Yeah.
And it die and follow me.
And so not only does that translate to fault, just salvation and being saved.
Right.
And so turning from my way, which is repentance is the big word we use for it.
Turning away from my sin, my desires, my my old way of living that's completely driven
by what I want, what I feel.
You know, our whole world tells us, follow your dreams.
Yeah.
Right.
Follow your dreams.
And, you know, you the world is your oyster.
I think nobody actually says that.
I think I'm the only one that says I think I'm the only one who, like, has ever said
that.
I don't know.
I think the world tells us everything is just so like, you know, you are the author of your
blah, blah, blah, your destiny.
None of that is biblical.
Yeah.
None of that's in the Bible.
He does not say follow your dreams.
He says, take up your cross and follow me.
Yeah.
And to deny yourself.
And so not only is that true for when we give our lives to Jesus and we're saying no to
our old way, no to what we want to do, yes to him.
But I think it translates to everything.
I mean, I think even even even when I'm praying about the kind of parents we want to be, there
are certain things I think about that I'm like, huh, you know, maybe like I maybe I'd
be OK, you know, raising our kid to do this.
And this is the way I think.
But then I have to be like, whoa, is that actually what God is going to lead us to do?
You know, like even in my career, it's like this may be what I really, really want.
But is it what God wants for me?
And it's really just putting God when I say lay it down, it's like putting God at the
focus and center of your life in such a way that like he's not an afterthought.
It's not like a I'm just going to do this thing and then later, hey, God, can you bless
this like after the fact?
But it's like, no, God, what do you want to do?
What do you want to make out of my life?
And just laying down those desires, because sometimes it's not that our desires.
I want to say this.
It's not that our desires are always bad, because I think sometimes people hearing like
Christians speak about desires and sins and things, it's like every emotion that I have
is bad and every desires, that's not true.
Actually desires are given to us from God.
Like he's given us the ability to want things and desire things.
And there's a lot of good things we desire.
We have a lot of good emotions.
I mean, we have it's a good thing he's given us emotions because it's a signal.
Feelings are like a signal of what's going on.
Like I'm angry.
Oh, why am I angry?
But these things aren't meant to our desires aren't meant to rule us.
And I can't I can't think of certain passages at the moment, but there's definitely passages
where he the word specifically talks about people who are driven by their own selfish
ambition, their desires and what ends up happening to them.
And so when I say lay it down, I mean, like and for someone who is not a believer, that
might be a little bit harder for them because they've not yet made that decision to completely
laid down and give their life to Jesus as a response of him giving his life to us.
So I think that's it's just sacrifice is simply I think what that means.
I hope that makes sense.
No, I think it does.
I think you wrapped it up well with that saying that it's really what it is, a sacrifice and
giving up what you're giving up what your desires are for something greater.
Yeah.
And if you don't trust God, that's going to be hard for you.
Yeah, that's gonna be really hard.
But God is a trustworthy God and he's a good God and we've seen his track record.
And so whether it's parenting, whether it's your job, whether it's friendships, whether
it's marriage, like is this the right things I should be looking for in a spouse?
Like no matter what area it is, you cannot you will I feel like if you when you trust
Jesus, you will find that what he's what he's drawing you to do will lead to so much more
life and health and joy and peace than when you are in the driver's seat.
Yeah, like it kind of leads me into another question.
Like there's whenever we like we're pursuing that we're pursuing our callings, we're laying
things down like what I guess, okay, there's two parts to this question as I as I'm thinking
like one, like how do you know you're actually on the right path?
There's one question, how do you know you're actually heading in that right direction?
And then part two, which we'll come back to is like, how do you do that confidently?
Are you speaking so when you say, how do you know you're headed in the right direction?
What do you are you referring to?
What are you referring to?
How do you know like, or is it possible to know like, what you're working on?
Yeah, like what you're working on in the moment, you believe you're working, you're working
your say you are working in a passion that something you're passionate about and the
and something gets in the way and your and then you get discouraged and think, okay,
maybe this is God closing the door.
Yeah.
But maybe it's then the other part of me, my brain works like maybe it's got closing
door or maybe it's got just challenging me to be like, okay, double down.
Like, there's like, so I'm like, how do you know?
That's like, and this is a loaded question.
Yeah.
It's a good question, though, because I am I think, I think there's something interesting
when we when we think about like, you know, what are we called?
We use the word.
If you're if you're a churchy person, if you've been in church for a while, you'll know what
I'm talking about.
Like, we use the phrase like, I'm I feel called to I feel called to this, like we use it so
much.
Sometimes that I'm like, do we know?
Do we actually know what we're saying?
And so I think what's helpful is to is first before I answer that question, it kind of
define a little bit like, as and this is very specific.
So if you are not a if you're not a Christian, like, keep stay with me, stay with me.
Okay.
So this also applies to you, even though you may not know it, but stick with me.
The number one thing we're called to is to Christ.
Yeah, we are called to Jesus.
I wrote down a verse.
This is in First Corinthians.
Yeah, First Corinthians one nine.
God is faithful by whom you were called into the fellowship of his son, Jesus Christ, our
Lord.
And then in John, he says, This is to my father's glory, that you bear much fruit showing yourselves
to be my disciples.
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear
fruit fruit that will last.
And so that whatever you ask in my name, the Father will give you.
And so we know from the word we see Jesus, we are called to Jesus.
And we're called so we're called to fellowship.
This is a very Christian.
He's word.
We're called to fellowship.
We're called to know him.
We're also called to be like him.
And a lot of times people are like, I'm trying to figure out what I'm called to do.
It's like, OK, well, start there.
Start with that thing.
I'm called to know Jesus and I'm called to be like him.
OK, yeah.
And then you also see throughout all of the scripture things that things you're called
to within that.
So being like Jesus looks like we're called to love other people.
We're called to love people.
We're called to love people how Christ loved us.
We are called to in humility, honor one another above ourselves.
We're called to do justice and love mercy and walk humbly with our God.
Like we can see revealed in some parts of the Bible revealed what we're called to do.
And so I think we need to start there.
Because here's here's why I'm saying that.
Because what you're asking is such a is such a real thing that we deal with.
And I will give an example.
So last.
So we are now you've pastoring both my husband and I would be new pastoring for maybe like,
I don't know, almost we're going to month seven.
But both of us are working jobs outside of the church that we were not expecting.
And for four or three or four years prior to that, we were campus pastoring.
So we were in a different location.
We were in a different we were just in a different area of ministry.
Right.
And I remember like, you know, things change.
So so my thing is like, what happens when you're to what you're asking?
I think it's a good question.
It's like, well, what happens when we feel like we're really, really called to something
and then something happens that isn't it wasn't our choosing.
It wasn't our doing.
Maybe it was someone else's or maybe it was like, I don't know, circumstantial.
You know, this job has to if you get you get laid off or something like that's something
that's an external thing.
And sometimes there's internal things that happen that we have to leave certain positions
and certain jobs and things like that.
So something similar to that actually happened last year.
Something that some similar thing happened to us, to my husband and I were like last
year we I mean, I was in a groove.
I was like just getting just when I was getting comfortable with accepting that, like, this
is where God had me.
There were just a series of events that happened that led to we're no longer in those positions
anymore.
Yeah.
And it wasn't our doing.
It wasn't our decision.
And so with some shifting and changing and sometimes that happens, especially like with
organizations and churches and all kinds of things.
Sometimes things change and you're in transition and you didn't ask to be in transition.
And I remember in January I was jobless and I was just sitting sitting because because
my job wasn't really no longer available.
It wasn't an option to return to that position, which at that time Rob was a campus pastor.
I was a community pastor and really like running discipleship in small groups, which I love
so much.
And I remember kind of wrestling with that and being like, well, God, I really believed
that you called us.
You called us to a certain community.
You called us to a certain thing.
And I remember kind of getting a little frustrated with like, you know, why is this happening?
God, I don't really understand.
And what I believe God was showing me in that is reminding me that I'm called to Him before
I'm called to anything else.
And so like one like it's it's it's harder.
I will say it's it's easier to kind of accept when it's not your decision to leave something
or get, you know, you can get discouraged.
I think a lot easier when it like how do I word this?
When it's an external factor.
I think it's a lot.
Maybe it's not.
It can still be confusing, but I think it's easier to accept.
Sometimes it's an external thing.
It's a lot harder to discern when like organizations going great.
Being super healthy and but for some reason, I'm like, God is telling me to leave this.
You know, so I think that I think that those are maybe two different types of things.
But no matter what situation you're in, whenever you're like, I'm called to this thing and
things get shaken up, we have to first and foremost come back to the fact that we are
we are called to Jesus and we're called to be like him before we're called to anything
else.
And that really helped me because for a solid month we begin youth pastoring.
And I remember kind of like sitting there and praying and like, God, I really am.
I'm confused.
Like, does this calling like like what does this mean?
And here's what I think happened to me.
And I'm not saying this happens.
But here's what happened.
Here's what I believe happened to me.
And I'm sure I'm certain it has happened to other people because we are there's nothing
new under the sun.
I think that I was putting too much maybe stock into very specifically like where I
was and what I was doing.
And to the point where I think I was letting that become more a part of my identity and
my why then who I was in Jesus and what he's asked me to do, if that is making any sense.
And I think I think it's important to come back to us being called to know Jesus and
to be like him because we can get caught up.
It's okay.
Well, if I'm telling you, Thomas, I'm called to, you know, this role at this company, but
like two weeks from then I get fired.
Yeah.
And I put all my stock in like, I feel I'm called to this specific position at this specific
business and whatever.
Okay.
Well, God didn't make the mistake here.
Yeah.
Right.
So I think we have to in humility come back to this place of it's God who calls and it's
God who qualifies and he calls us to himself.
So when we know that, that makes it for me so much easier to understand.
Okay.
Now, I will say this.
I believe he calls us to himself and to be like him, but I do believe he places us in
certain roles for a certain time.
I believe for that season, for those couple of years, we were meant to be, we were called
to those people, that congregation.
I also believe though that more broadly, I think that could be summed up.
I think I've been called to make disciples, which is also biblical.
And that also applies no matter where you are.
So even at this new job, I think I'm called to represent Christ there.
And I think we have to keep coming back to him because what ends up happening is we'll
put the object that we, you know, I'm called to preach and teach the word.
And if in your mind, it's always on a stage, but that's never the place that you're preaching,
you're going to be waiting your whole life to get on that stage.
When it may never happen, that might not be the specific place that you're meant to do
that.
But maybe you're meant to preach and teach the word, you know, in your small group or
one-on-one and showing people the word, right?
We can't let these like how we expect it to look to hinder what God actually wants to
do in us.
And so I think that answered your question.
But that's a tricky thing because we can get discouraged.
That was a discouraging thing for me to be like, oh man, I just got in my groove.
Like you know, I'm getting comfortable here in this place of pastoring in this specific
role.
And it's a lot more uncomfortable for me right now, if I'm being really honest, to return
to a nine to five job, it's uncomfortable.
And there's going to be, I've not yet maybe been in a role specifically like this, I've
done similar things, but there's things about going back into like a regular nine to five
job that are kind of intimidating to me.
And I've had a lot of moments of like, God, is this really, you know, what you have me
doing?
But when I look at every single step, so to answer your question more directly of like,
how do I know?
I think there's a lot of ways that we can know.
I think one is obviously testing everything with the Word of God.
Our decisions bring honor and glory to God.
Are they reflecting His heart?
I think another thing is like wise counsel.
Just being honest, I mean, before we accepted the yes to youth pastoring, one thing that
we did was we spent time praying.
We sat with people that we really trust, godly people that we love and trust.
We sat for hours.
I'm not kidding, hours talking about it, praying about it.
And when we had left that conversation, Rob and I had so much peace and we really felt,
okay, God, this is lining up for what we feel like you're saying to us.
I also think too, it's like, do you have gifting and skill in that area?
Like what aligns with your gifts and your skill?
For me, I'm not an overly analytical person, right?
So for me to be, if I feel like I already get an offer or something for a job that's
me sitting and analyzing data all day, every day, absolutely not, which is basically what
my husband's really good at.
But for me, absolutely not.
I mean, that's going to drain me.
I'm going to be exhausted.
Now we are going to have to do things sometimes that do not always align directly with our
gifting.
That's just the reality.
That's life.
We have to accept that.
But when I think of places, I think God is so good that He does, He knows us, He knows
how He designed us.
He's our creator.
I do believe He positions us in places.
Sometimes it plays exactly to our strengths and sometimes it's meant to stretch us.
But no matter where we are, we have to know that He's got us there for a bigger plan and
a bigger purpose.
And typically we have a very poor theology of work.
Typically we're like, I have to be working.
I mean, Paul, Paul was an apostle, but he also was a tent maker.
He did make tents on the side here and there because he wanted to raise money to be able
to fund his mission, which was to go and plant churches and share the gospel to the Gentiles.
He did that on the side.
And so that means, you know what, sometimes I still got to provide for my family.
I still got to do all these things.
We may not always be doing things that we feel directly goes along with this grand thing
that we think, but that doesn't mean it's any less worthy to God.
It doesn't mean that it means less.
Every single thing that we do, every vocation, we are able to work in such a way that it
brings honor and shows people who God is by how we work and how we show up there.
I think your second part of your question, it was how do you walk in that confidently?
Yeah.
Oh, that's a good one.
How do I walk confidently?
I think there's a couple of high level things to that, but also I think there's practical.
How are you confident?
You have to be confident in who God is and who he made you to be.
And that's honestly the second part of that for me is the hardest.
Thomas, when you texted me, I think in your message you had said something about, you
said something along the lines of you view me as somebody who is very confident of what
is God called them to be.
I laughed at that at first because I was like, you know, sometimes I don't know if I'm, there's
so many moments I've had in the last five years of my life where I'm like, God, are
you sure?
Are you sure you got the right one?
So that kind of made me, I was like, wow, that's amazing that someone would think that
because I'm not always confident.
And sometimes we're confident in the wrong things.
There's times I've been really confident in my ability to do something only to find
out like, I don't know actually what I'm doing.
And I, and sometimes it takes me longer to realize that than it should.
But I think how we walk confidently is we have to take God at his word that he does
have us where he has us for a reason.
And he's going to use that for his purpose, no matter what you're doing.
So if you're, you know, you might view your job if you're like an accountant, it's like,
I'm just an accountant.
You're not just an accountant.
You are in your job, you are able to show people who God is by how excellent you work,
how you're showing up to your coworkers, by your diligence and your job.
Like, God has positioned you every place that you are for a purpose, even if you don't
know it yet, even if you don't see it.
Like we see this part of the story, if you guys can't see what I'm doing with my hand,
but I've got a little dot right in front of me.
We see this part of the story.
God is seeing every single dot in every single place.
Like he's seeing the big picture.
So we have to be confident that he knows what he's doing even when we don't know, even when
things shake up on us.
Like I look back at that season when I'm like, oh, I wasn't really confident.
I'm like, okay, we kind of just got like life kind of switched up on us.
Like our whole, our whole church community is different now.
And that was really uncomfortable and painful at the time.
I look back and I'm like, I see God's hand and I see, wow.
Okay, God.
And then the chapter was coming to a close and I don't know that if he would not have
positioned us out of it, that we would have willingly, you know, wanted to move on.
I don't know.
And so in his kindness, I see him doing that.
So I think we have to trust that he knows what he's doing more than we know what we're
doing.
I also think practically speaking, how we continue is like, man, we got to be encouraged.
Like you need people around you who are speaking life into you, who are praying for you, who
are able to encourage in those moments, because you will probably get discouraged.
It's probably going to happen at some point if it hasn't happened, especially when things
happen unexpectedly.
You lose the job, your community changes, your, you know, your life gets shaken up a
little bit.
It's going to happen.
The word promises that that's going to happen.
We're going to experience trial and tribulation in this life.
We got to have people in our corner who are there to encourage us, speak life into us,
pray for us.
And also like wise, be wise.
They're going to tell us how it is.
Like if I, this is so funny.
Like if I have someone come to me and they're like, Oh, you know, I feel like I'm called
to be a missionary in, I don't know, Thailand.
But when I, but as someone who is walking with them, if I'm not seeing maybe consistent
qualities of like, I might be like, Hey, let's have an honest conversation of, you know,
why do you feel you're called to this?
Because I think sometimes emotions can kind of drive and we need, we need wise people
around us who, who ideally love the Lord and are able to speak life.
I also think how we walk confidently is like, we got to understand that we don't know what
we think we know.
That's just, that's true with everything.
You don't actually know as much as you think, you know, you're not the smartest.
You should, hopefully you're not the smartest person in the room.
You should surround yourself with people who've, who've been where you have not yet been.
I think we need people.
I feel like at all points in our lives, we need people who've gone ahead of us.
We need people who are kind of like either right where we are, maybe in it with us.
And then we also need to have somebody who's not yet where we are, who we're able to guide.
Like that's how discipleship works.
That's how I believe like mentorship works.
We're all called to do, to do discipleship.
Sometimes it looks formal like mentorship.
Sometimes it looks like natural relationship.
But I think that we all need, we need people who have kind of been ahead of where we are.
We need to be humble and listen to them.
We need to be willing and we need it.
We need to be willing when we make to admit when we make a mistake, when we don't get
it right.
We have to be willing to admit that because we're not always going to get it right and
understand like, Oh my gosh, people, this, this, this, this used to be me.
Sometimes we're so afraid to make a move with anything because we're so afraid of, you know,
what if I make this one decision and you know, what if I make this one decision and everything
falls apart?
If we have our eyes fixed on Jesus, he's going to guide us exactly.
His spirit's going to guide us exactly where we need, where we need to be.
He's always drawing, he's always drawing us back to him.
He's going to guide us to where we need to be.
So even if you make a mistake, even if you slip up, something happens.
You make the wrong decision.
As long as we in humility, we turn and say, Hey, Hey, I need some help.
I do believe God is going to lead us down the right path.
And so I think those are some ways that I've kind of, I've grown in more in confidence
because I've learned to rely on God more, more than I rely on my own strength, but also
even what other people think of me.
Like we, I can't, I can easily get too caught up in that.
And I just need him to remember like, this is how God, this is who God is.
This is how he sees me.
And I think that he's going to guide us to where exactly we need to be as long as we've
got him on the forefront.
And that sounds really simple, I know, but I believe it's the truth.
Like when we've got our eyes locked on him, man, the word says, trust in the Lord with
all your heart, lean not on your understanding and all your ways acknowledge him.
He'll make your path straight.
I've seen it.
I've experienced it.
Moments when I have no idea what I'm doing.
I'm like, God, I have this person in front of me who like, I can't relate to your experience.
Like I've worked with people who are experiencing homelessness.
I have no idea what that's like.
And it can be really easy to kind of be like, okay, God, I'm inadequate in this area.
I don't, I don't, I'm a girl from suburbia.
I've never had to, you know, I've never, we don't have the same experience.
But when I remind, when I say to remind myself, I, yes, I don't have the same experience as
this person, but I do believe that God has positioned me in this moment to be the one
to, I'm able to love them.
I'm able to serve them.
And he has given me a heart of compassion to be able to meet them where they are.
And I don't have to pretend.
I don't have to pretend to be somebody else.
I just need to be who God has asked me to be and, and just be there for that person
and help them the best that I can.
And there's been many times I've kind of had like an imposter syndrome because of that,
because I'm like, I don't, I don't know what I'm doing.
God, I need you.
I need you to show me what to do.
Um, there's times where I think I know what I'm doing and I'm like kind of steady, but
then I feel like there's always something that pops up.
That's like, okay.
And then I'm like, okay, God, I'm not really confident here and God will remind me I'm
here.
Yeah.
Let me show you what to do.
Let me show you how to respond in this situation.
Man, I like so many more questions I want to ask, but I want to get to the point where
we're wrap up.
Um, but now just to like, kind of summarize what I, I, some of the notes I took was like,
if you don't know where to start, you start with Jesus and you, and like that, even if
you're already a Christian that's been walking, you don't know where, you don't know what
your calling is.
You don't know where you're going.
Like you can start with just seeking him and like he will guide you.
Yeah.
And like, like there's like, cause to what you were saying, like way in the beginning
about like the, um, passions and like not showing what, like not sure why you're passionate
about what, whatever, like, like I re like, I picked up, I picked up on what I was passionate
about randomly and like, I then like, I didn't even know what was passionate about it until
I was like really diving into like learning to learn more about the particular topic of
like understanding how people think.
Yeah.
And then it's like, Oh wow.
It's like, this is actually really interesting.
It led me down all these other paths that seemingly had nothing to do with that.
But, but then every, all these other skills I learned in respect to what I was doing,
um, are now going to be contributing, like, it could contribute to this podcast, like,
which I believe is part of my calling part of like, cause like I wanted to be part of
my mind, like I wanted to be on stage.
I wanted to have a microphone.
I felt like I had things to say.
And then I had people tell us like two people told me that I should start a podcast, like
not knowing that part of me.
And then I was like, but even before then they were saying that I was like, I should
think like maybe it was for our podcast at some point.
And then I just, people were like, yeah, you should just do one.
And I was like, without me like prompting them.
I was like, I love that.
I was like, then so eventually it happened.
And like, and so I think like for people who don't know what they're doing, I don't know,
I was just gonna say don't know what they're doing.
You're unsure of what you're called to do.
That's funny.
Yes.
Like it's like very basic advice, but I don't think enough people follow it that you just
start.
Yeah.
You just start.
And I mean, I like, I love what you just said, Thomas of like, what, like, like actually
take inventory and this is hard to do.
It's really hard for us to be like, what, you know, what am I actually good at?
Yeah.
Like I'm like, I'm gonna take my time and actually sit down, get like a pen and a notebook
out and like ask those questions like, okay, what are things I like doing?
Yeah.
What are things that I'm like, I feel like I'm pretty good at?
What are things other people like you just mentioned other people, what are things other
people have said to me about certain things?
Like I had people many times, which is, I don't know, sometimes they say people say
things you're like, okay, but then it like resonates somehow.
I, when I was doing that longer term kind of mission trip in Ronda, there were people
there who affirmed for me of like, oh, oh yeah, like you, God has really gifted you
to, at that time it was to do ministry and like other cultures.
And like it was, it was everything and every people everywhere from pastors to friends
to colleagues.
I mean, there's like, pay attention to what people are saying to you and pointing out
to you if you're like, what am I actually supposed to be doing?
Like take a little inventory, what are the things I'm actually good at?
What are the things that fuel you?
Like I said, for me, like doing analytical work all day, like just looking at straight
numbers on like running on a computer drains me, I'm exhausted.
But what I absolutely love is like, man, when someone asks me one-on-one to meet with them
and maybe they're asking a question, they're wrestling with something in the Bible or they're
just going through a life issue and they just want to bring me in, man, I am fueled in that
moment.
I love, I love walking with people.
It brings me energy.
It brings me life.
I like, what do you love doing?
And I think kind of taking inventory and kind of maybe seeing, okay, what am I good at?
What am I gifted at?
What are people saying to me?
Actually if you don't have, if you're like, nobody's around me, go find people and ask
them, Hey, and maybe you can ask them to like write it down and tell you later if you're
uncomfortable hearing in that moment.
Say, Hey, can you write down like three things that you see in me?
Three things that you have noticed in me and pay attention to those things because those
things might be pretty good indicators of like practically speaking.
Like I like, like the higher level is yes, we're called to know Jesus.
On a practical level, I think there's some wisdom and kind of literally what you're saying
Thomas you're like, you know, I thought it was this, but there's all these people around
me who are kind of like, and then you cut your mind kind of goes like, Oh, so it doesn't
have to look like that.
I can actually have an impact and do what I believe God's asking me to do, but it doesn't
always look how we think it looks.
And so I think that's really good practical wisdom of just like taking that inventory
and kind of like, okay, what now?
Like, maybe that even helps you like find out what jobs to apply for.
It's like figuring out what you're like, not just what you're good at, but like, it's like
what, like what you're passionate about, why you're passionate about it.
It can be a good, a lot of things that you shouldn't be pursuing, but, but the, oh yes,
I love music.
Like, does that mean I should quit my job and, and go become a producer?
No, I know nothing about it.
And that would take me a long time to learn the skills.
It's like why, like you were saying, like why you're doing something and you, like you
figure out what fuels you in, like you figured out that taking the inventory, like why does
it fuel you?
Like what's that part of you that like, that you break it down to its like smallest pieces
and you're like, why is this such an important thing in my life?
And like, why, like I didn't know, I, I don't know why this is, I don't know why I'm passionate
about this thing.
I don't know why this feels me.
I don't know why those things don't fuel me because that other people say they should.
Yeah.
But like, that's a part of me that, but it's like, why is this such an exciting thing for
me to do?
And then that can help you find other things.
Yeah.
Because it's just like, it's not the thing that, that, that is fueling you.
It's the, it in itself.
It's the, yeah.
I'm not sure how to word this properly.
Like without being vague, because like, it's not the thing that's, it's not the thing itself
that is fueling you.
It's I guess if you would ask certain people, if you think some people would say it's like,
it's what you get almost after.
If that makes sense.
It's like, it's like, because it's like, I like what you say.
Like it's like, it's like you get fueled during, during.
Yeah.
Like a reward.
Yeah.
And it's, that's a really good way of putting it.
Like, like I had mentioned one thing that fuels me is like, I really love walking people,
like practically speaking, like what is the, what is, what does this Bible mean for my
life?
Right.
I love, I could like geek out about it.
Like I love, I love when these productive like, okay, I know this, but how do I actually
walk it out?
That fuels me because why?
The product of that is seeing someone walk towards Jesus and want him more.
Like seeing that for me, it's, it's like what keeps me going.
It energizes me in a way.
I shouldn't say keeps me going, but I guess sometimes it does.
It like encourages you when you're discouraged.
It's the reward of the thing.
Sometimes though, you might not see the reward quickly.
I think that's something important to remember.
Some things are a labor of love as they say, like there's sometimes like, like Thomas,
how long did it take you to kind of learn what you needed to learn to be able to even
start this?
It probably took you time, right?
Like, it's funny because it took me time, but not all the things that I needed to learn.
One, I didn't need to know all of them upfront.
Right.
And two, like some of them I learned years ago.
It was just knowledge that I had from like my job.
I was like, oh, I know this stuff exists.
It's like, I know an RSS feed exists.
I know how to like kind of like how I chose like the platform to host on and stuff.
It's like, it's like, you don't have it.
Like you can, yes, you should like kind of inventory the knowledge of things that you
should know, but like, but yeah, like.
But it takes time to like get, it takes time to like be like, get things to a place where
you're like, oh, this is like a healthy moving thing.
Like it takes time to do that.
And you won't know all everything you need to know until you start.
Right.
Because you don't know the questions to ask.
Yeah.
So if you're listening to this and you're like paralyzed, you've been paralyzed with
indecision, take a step out of faith.
I don't know what that means for you, but find the person who has the expertise to ask
questions, find the mentor, pray and ask God to bring you the people and to just show you
how he's uniquely designed you.
Because he has uniquely designed each of us for a plan and a purpose.
And it's, and it's, it's worth, it's worth taking the time to, to, to ask him to show
you what that is and guide you in that.
Yeah.
I think that's a great place to kind of, to wrap it, to wrap it up.
And I have a couple of ending questions, but like, thank you for ending it off like that.
Um, this officially the, the longest episode.
I've never hit the hour mark on my gosh.
I'm so sorry.
I'm afraid some things will get cut.
Oh, no, no, it's not.
I actually like, I was watching this, like, like usually like the last Rob's was, was
the longest.
Now yours is.
Oh Lord.
I'm long winded.
Oh no, you're good.
Just a final wrap up questions.
Um, when it comes to personal personal growth development, um, pursuing one's calling, like
what are some resources that you have or would recommend to people, whether it can be anything?
I think there's some really good, I listened to some really good podcasts.
I like, I try to read a lot, but sometimes I don't always get to, um, but I definitely
like some, just some, some people's podcasts.
I like a lot.
Uh, Frank DiMazio, I think he has a podcast, but I'm not certain.
He definitely has some resources.
He is a, I think, I don't know if he's currently a pastor, he's got a really good, some really
good leadership things.
They're obviously, um, they're not always church focused.
They are usually broad leadership, but they're obviously Christian based, but he's amazing.
Um, John Maxwell, the Craig Rochelle leadership podcast is so good.
I love his books, love his stuff.
Um, the Kierie Newhoff leadership podcast is really good because he interviews so many
different people.
I mean, he interviews everybody from like, uh, he's interviewed like, I think famous
like sports players to the CEO of Chick-fil-A to, I mean, like people in the church world
and the business world.
And it's always about like a different topic.
He's got hundreds of episodes.
He also has a blog.
Um, that's been something personally that I just enjoy the different topics, like certain
things I would never think about.
And, but it still talks about leadership in some ways.
So I really like that.
Um, Jenny Allen, probably more, um, ah, I think she has some general leadership stuff,
but Jenny Allen has some good stuff.
And if you're somebody who this has, this has been a blessing to me and has helped me
grow.
I remember how I said before, like, we just sometimes have a really poor theology of work.
Like we think like, um, unless we're working always directly in something we love, love,
love that it's like worthless, which I don't believe that's true.
I do believe, I mean, God has designed us to work.
There's a really great resource for anybody who might be interested in this.
I love their stuff.
It's called made to flourish.
And what they do is, um, on a larger, on a larger level, they try to produce resources
to equip, kind of like equip churches to be able to empower their congregation of like
how their work actually matters to, to God, but also to advancing his name and advancing
the kingdom.
Um, and I really enjoy it.
So I think they've got all kinds of resources.
They've got a magazine that comes out once a month.
Um, they've got some good like articles and stuff out there, everything from like economics
to marriage to the home, to the workplace, to church specifically.
They've got a lot of really good stuff.
I think their magazine is called common good magazine.
Um, cause their whole thing is like, it's for the common good.
So I really love them, highly recommend them.
I've learned a lot from them about a lot of different things.
So I like that.
And then honestly, I, I like, I listen to those things, but I also listened to a lot
of, um, like Bible teaching and lots of like sermons and things like that, because I, um,
I feel like I also learn a lot about leadership and development from those things.
Like I'm not, sometimes we're trying to be like better vocationally in our specific skill.
Sometimes we're trying to be better with like thought leadership.
Like I think there's something in all those resources I mentioned, there's probably something
for everyone.
So I do, those are probably the main things I go to.
Okay.
I definitely ask you for links for probably all of this.
Absolutely.
Okay.
I like to, I usually always put links in the show notes.
Yep.
I can send them.
Um, and then final question.
Who would you like to hear?
Do you think would be good on this podcast?
Um, I'm trying to think who I hope, I don't know who all has been on it so far.
Literally anybody like, uh, Rob recommended F, uh, F1 racer.
Oh, that would be crazy.
Crazy.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
So he said someone like, that's like, I don't know, maybe someone would.
Um, hmm.
Now you've just broadened my scope.
Now I'm like, Oh, the world is our oyster.
Wow.
See, I'm the only one that says that.
Such a, such a weird saying.
I don't even know what it means.
It's fine.
Um, I'm going to, okay.
I'm going to recommend, um, my really, really good friend, Bethany Martin.
Okay.
So Bethany is a, um, she's amazing.
She, um, she's an amazing friend.
She's an amazing follower of Jesus, but you know what?
She is a great leader.
She's in architectural design.
Um, she's a great leader of people and I've kind of got to see that up close.
And I think what's interesting is she is, I mean, her, that's her full-time job.
She's a architectural design designer, I guess I was going to say designist.
I'm like, what is even happening?
She, um, she's amazing.
And I've gotten to see her up close leading people and the way she not only leads them,
but she serves them.
She cares for them.
Um, she has a lot of wisdom, I think, to share.
So I'd say Bethany.
Awesome.
Yeah.
I'll ask you for some contact information.
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, all right guys.
Thank you for listening to the longest episode of Technically Short.
Hopefully it might not be that way once they cut things.
Thank you.
Uh, if you haven't already, go ahead and give us a like on, uh, or yeah, a review on Spotify,
Apple podcasts, wherever you listen to the podcast, five stars would be appreciated.
And if you want to leave a review, that would be great too.
Share us on all your socials and we will see you next time.
See ya.