Hey guys, how's it going?
Welcome to this episode of Technically Short.
In this episode, I got to sit down with Rob Gizowski, where he gets to talk about his
calling and how it's changed and molded over time through experiences that were outside
of his control.
And we talk about really confidently pursuing your calling and then where the source of
that confidence is coming from.
Then towards the end, Rob gets a little bit vulnerable talking about a time when he wavered
and what kept him on the right track so he can live confidently in his calling.
All right, guys, get your notebooks out, pens, paper, and we'll see you in there.
Hey guys, how's it going?
So we're here with Rob Gizowski.
You said it perfectly.
Cool.
I appreciate it.
There's like literally eight letters, but it's very intimidating.
Just think of Mike Gizowski.
Yeah, literally with Poptimus.
Everyone says that.
It's like, okay, Monsters Inc.
Mike was out.
I'm like, yep, just put a God in front of it.
But yeah, guys, Rob here is a mentor, a pastor, a husband with his wife, Leah, who you'll
hear from soon.
He leads Amplify Youth, which has exploded within the last, what, six to 12 months?
Honestly, yeah, five, five months.
And what I find crazy is they amplify youth Instagram has blown up to 400 plus followers.
400,000 plus followers.
40,000, 41,000.
41,000, sorry, 400,000.
That would be, amen.
Come on, you're speaking into existence.
Let's go.
This is something I want to jump into also a little bit later, but he's also a veteran
and used to jump out of helicopters, which I think is nuts and awesome.
But yeah, so Rob, for those who don't know you, for those who don't know much about you,
who is Rob Getzelsky?
Wow, what a question.
Yeah, so the short version of it is like, I think I've tried to just walk, do what God
wants me to do.
And my life has been like every aspect, every turn, it's just like a service of people.
So whenever, before I knew Jesus and became a pastor, I was, you mentioned it, there's
a time I was in the military, there was a time where I was pursuing to be a police officer
and be in law enforcement.
I went to school for that.
And so there's been every turn of my life, it's like, okay, how can I serve people?
And it just seems to be a theme all the way through every single thing that I do.
Little did I know, never would have believed I would have been, be where I'm at today being
a pastor.
But I think, you know, when people ask like, okay, who am I?
You know, obviously, like son of child of God, pastor, I could feel my pastor voice
and mind coming out right now.
So before I go too deep into that, no, I am, I'm ambitious.
I just want for God's will, and I just want to have fun.
And so a lot of that right now looks like sports.
I'm in my 30s, man.
I'm in my mid 30s.
I like so just trying to stay on top of things, you know, into cycling.
I love F1.
Yeah, big F1 fan.
Love hockey, basketball, all the standard stuff.
But yeah, outside of technically short, I listened to a lot of F1 podcasts.
And right now is just a really crazy season.
So I don't have much time for a lot of things other than podcasts in my car and driving
into the next thing, but it's a really fun time in my life.
And yeah, pastor, veteran, and just love sports and love God.
Yeah, it's awesome.
I just popped in my head.
I am.
It's not actually what I didn't plan on bringing this up.
I don't know.
But like, there's a time that comes up with you that I tell people a lot about a lot.
And like, you were the first, you and Leo were the first people that showed me like
how to like worship in the home.
Whenever we were there was often.
And I think we were just hanging out and you had pizza and whatever.
And you guys were like, you guys hear this song on YouTube with like the upper room or
something?
I was like, do you hear this?
Do you hear this?
Like, no, I know.
I listened to worship music outside of church.
And I was like something about like the fire burn, like the Holy Spirit fire burning, everything
else away.
It's probably refiner.
Yeah.
And like, Leo was like, do you know what that means?
Do you know what they're saying?
And I'm like, no.
And I guess I always think back to that because that itself was like a reforming, like a refining
moment for me to remember like, yeah, I can worship at home.
I can do that wherever I'm at.
This is kind of fun that I, again, I wasn't expecting to go into that at all during this
conversation, but it's just like, that's just something I always tell people that I whenever
we talk about worship or something, that's something that pops in my head a lot.
I think something that will probably come up a little bit later, so I won't spend too
much time on it now.
But I think one of the challenging things as Christians and people who are following
God and whether it's in their leadership or it's in their life, I think the hardest thing
to do is to bring that into all the other aspects of your life.
A lot of us, especially people who are doing, walking out Sundays, it might not feel as
difficult, but even for pastors it's difficult, but for all of us as Christians to take that
into the workplace, to take that into the office, to take that into the home, it almost
feels like it's an additional thing, like you're doing it on top of.
That's just not the right mindset.
The right mindset needs to be, hey, that comes first and then everything else follows it.
Honestly, one of the things that we hope to do, it's really ironic that you say that,
once we're finishing our basement.
And so one of the big things that we're really excited to have whenever that basement's
finished is a bigger space to do things like that, have people over and do little worship
sessions and just board games, all the fun stuff at the same time.
But yeah, it's integrated into every part of your life.
I don't know if you've heard me say it before in different episodes, this podcast is different
and it's generally about giving people the tools they need to discover and pursue your
God-given calling.
And I try not to market it as purely a Christian podcast, but God comes up all the time because
that's just who I am.
It's part of the reality.
And I just hope that people that listen, that maybe don't have faith, still stick around
and listen.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think the one thing that is true, whether you're a believer or not, that it's literally
like, let's say somebody picks up the Bible and doesn't believe that that's scripture.
The reality is though, is the Bible is filled with wisdom, even from a secular standpoint.
And so I believe that even though there's going to be terminology and there's going
to be use of words that are very Christian, being a Christian pastor, I think that there
is core concepts that would bless you, whether you know God, believe in God, or you don't.
I think a lot about calling and previously you were mentioning about all the different
things that you've done or even like you were first trying to be a police officer, you're
in the military and now you're a pastor.
And you're leading Amplify Youth with your wife.
I mentioned previously this is a podcast to help people with their calling.
What do you believe your calling is?
How do those things kind of, you said you're here to serve, that was always your focus.
How does that kind of feed into your calling?
Yeah, so first and foremost, the word calling is actually really interesting.
Have you ever watched the show Manifest?
No.
Okay.
So I watched like three episodes, I got weirded out and I'm just like, you know what, I'm
not watching this anymore.
But there's like this, the calling and it's just this voice that like speaks to them and
all these things.
And from that moment I was like, okay, like, is that what I sound like when I'm walking
around me?
Like, how is that my calling?
Like, do I sound like them?
But obviously I don't think that's true.
But I think, you know, when we speak about calling, I think something that's just very
clear is like, you know, just to bring it into maybe a little bit of different terms
is just like your purpose, you know, like what has God purposed you to do?
And so I do believe that, you know, I used the word service before, but more specifically,
I believe God has specifically called me and purposed me to pastor, to father and to build.
And we can deep dive into those bad boys as we go.
But I think, you know, knowing what God wants you to do or what His purpose is for you,
or even if, you know, once again, like just what is your purpose here on this earth is
really rooted in what you believe, you know.
And I didn't know necessarily all of those things.
You know, I've noticed trends before, maybe like six years ago I was like, oh, there's
a trend in my life that I see that I just like keep falling into wanting to serve people.
And sometimes like that's like, oh, is that just a trend?
Is that something that I enjoy?
Like, what does that look like?
But I also have noticed, you know, more so over the last four or five years where it's
like, no, like there's times where God is specifically like, this is who you are, and
I'm putting this in your heart and here's what I want you to do.
And so I think when I think about my purpose or my calling, I think those things have been
given to me by God.
But also I do believe there are things that, you know, I'm equipped to do.
And so, but the thing is, is like for me, it's like, it's not the comfortable things
typically.
You know, I think, I think a lot of times we get caught up in thinking, oh, the things
that I'm good at in that little box, my calling must be in that box.
Right?
Like, oh, I'm a, I don't know, I love technology and I can code.
So that means that like my purpose has to be in that box.
And it's like, not necessarily like it's how you use that.
It could be even so far out of that box.
Cause I would, you know, I thought I was just going to run and manage operations my whole
life, you know?
And like, not that that's a bad thing.
But then it's like, nope, God, like you're going to go pastor and you're going to go
lead people.
And there's me, introverted me like, oh no, no, don't put a microphone in front of my
face.
You know, like all, all these things.
And so, yeah, I think kind of getting back to your thing of like, Hey, like what's your,
what is your, your calling?
What is your purpose?
I think it's really rooted in, okay, like God has, God has called me to be a pastor.
He's put, he's put that heart in me.
He's put that desire to care for people in me.
But at the same time, one of the biggest things that I've kind of realized over the past year
or two is that he wants me to build.
And that looks like a number of different ways in my life, but yeah, he, he, he wants
me to build, um, you know, you know, sometimes it's ministry, sometimes it's, uh, organizations,
sometimes it's people, you know, and, and each one's different, but yeah, he's definitely
called me to be a builder.
That's really cool.
Like, yeah, I'm just like a builder.
That's like, that's a cool way to put that.
That's a cool way to say that just like, cause like a lot of people will say like when they're
calling it, I know it's typically pick up location.
Yeah.
And like to tip, uh, they'll pick a, like a job or a career path.
Um, and, and I think like, I've talked to a bunch of people about calling and purpose
and things like that, um, throughout the life of this podcast and like, there's like people
have said, Michaela and like Kendall both have said, like, yeah, they're calling goes
with you everywhere you, everywhere you go, not just for this one particular thing.
And that, that I think is like, that's what, that's how I think about it.
Like your calling is like, um, like, I like what John Maxwell says.
See, like people like tell him, like ask him when he's going to retire.
And he's like, what do you mean?
I can't, like, when am I supposed to stop?
Like, you mean I can't, this is my calling.
You can't retire from a calling.
And, um, tonight, uh, I just really liked that you put that, put it in that context,
um, instead of like, yeah.
And so just sticking with like, uh, which I don't think would be a bad thing to say
either.
Like I have a calling to be a pastor.
Yeah.
Um, cause like that's something I had talked about in his episode about like other pastors,
like saying, I want to be, I'm calling to be a pastor at this particular church.
And that can be true, but, um, yeah, I think, you know, and I think, you know, whether you're
talking inside the, you know, the spiritual church context or you're not, I think, um,
I think callings shift, you know, shift in mold.
Right.
I do believe, like if God's put something like, here's your purpose.
Right.
I think that sometimes it's very specific.
Like you said, like, I think there's times where, um, you know, I'm kind of in a transitional
part of my life or something and I'm like, okay, God, like, what's the next thing?
Right.
Where do you want me to go?
Where do you want me to walk through?
Um, and when, when we do that, I think there came, sometimes there's something so specific.
He's like, you need to be the pastor here, you know, like, or like, this is what I'm
going to grace and this is what I'm going to bless.
And it's like, okay, okay, that's what I'm doing.
Okay.
I got you.
And then there's other times where it's like, you know, um, you know, when I, the whole
builder, um, speaking on that, I think like where that really came to fruition was as
I, you know, at the time I was a pastor and, um, we really in a season of like, okay, like
finding, you know, my voice and certain things, but also finding out like, okay, like he wants
me to, to step further into this aspect of pastoring.
Right.
And, um, and in that moment he was giving me a word.
Um, and you know, it wasn't, he didn't necessarily say builder, um, but it was actually like
through being a through building, but also through creativity, um, through those two
things.
Um, I started to see this like trend and theme that he was showing me in my life and, and
builder kind of just like encapsulates it all.
Cause when we think creativity, we always think like painting and visual arts and graphic
design and all these things.
And those are all very true, but also like, you know, Jesus was a carpenter, like he was
that's creativity, like, um, and building something.
And so I think, um, you know, when I think of being a builder, it's like, yes, there's
times where God's like calling to that specific thing that of building.
Um, but when I say builder, I think it's, it doesn't mean that my purpose is over when
that, when that mission's done.
Like if he picks me up out of that and moves me somewhere else, it's like, no, you're still,
you're still builder.
You're building somewhere else, you know, or, or different.
Um, and so, you know, I think that's one of those things where it's like, yeah, pastor,
yeah, builder, but I think, you know, that can look different in different contexts.
Yeah.
I like the, uh, you said, um, creativity, but that made me think of there, this children's
book that Jordan Rainer wrote and, um, he wrote a book that I read, um, called redeeming
your time.
See yellow one up there, but, uh, he wrote a children's book called the creator in you.
Okay.
And it just like, kind of just telling children about like, it's like telling people are like
God, he's the creator, but then he also created us to create.
And um, and I think, and I, you know, that was a whole book just talks about like in
the, in the children's context of like what you can, what they can create, what things
they can do.
Um, I guess I was cool context.
Yeah.
We, we lit like something that, you know, that I think is really shown in this is like
we, we limit ourselves, um, you know, all of the time because we put ourselves in a
box or other people put us in a box.
Um, you know, for so long where, you know, I was, and I still am, I have, uh, I'm blessed
to have an operational mind, you know, a very logical mind.
I can create systems and all of these things, um, really well.
And praise God for that.
I, but I think if I just sit there and I just say, okay, that's, that's what's comfortable.
That's what I, that's where I'm looking for my purpose.
That's where it's the only, that's the box I'm going to live in.
Then we limit ourselves.
And so when I'm, what I'm not saying is, is like go around and just start looking for
all the things and, and, and searching, I think a lot of like the searching piece of
like, Hey, what is my calling?
Like if you're in a season where you're like, I'm not sure what it is.
Right.
Um, or it seems obscure right now.
I think a lot of the times where we go searching, we go searching in the wrong places.
Right.
We either stay so tight into this one little box of like, this is what, this is what I'm
good at and comfortable and I'm not going to look anywhere else or we go searching in
all the wrong places.
And I, and so, um, the two places that are the one place that obviously I would communicate
like where, where should you find your purpose?
It's in God and seek him.
And so there's, and that's not easy.
There's times where it's like there's months and months and months and I'm like, okay,
God, I've been praying.
I've been talking to you.
I've been trying to like figure out what's next or what's the night where you really
want me to be.
And it's just silent sometimes.
And so I think, you know, we, we can't limit, um, we can't limit what we believe God wants
to do in our, in our hearts or with our purpose or anything like that.
Cause if I did that, then, um, I would probably just be operationally doing things, you know,
um, but sitting there and when he says, no, I want you to go lead a whole church and it's
like, okay, sure.
And like taking that step of faith of like, all right, I'm going to do that.
Um, that's scary.
And it's not, it's, that is not the place I went and went looking for my purpose.
Right?
Like if I would, if it was up to me, I would go and went looking at like PNC bank or some
other financial institution or some other big organization to, to be an executive there
or something.
Um, but you know, he had different plans.
Yeah.
And I think that's really, I, I, I think that's interesting because like, I think that I'm
trying my goal and I've talked about it on here before about like, I want to be a life
coach.
I think I mentioned that I mentioned that to you before and that's right now, like this
is like what I'm doing right now.
This is like this podcast and eventually we're going to rebrand it.
It's like, it's more focused towards that.
Um, and hopefully getting more, um, ears and maybe eventually eyes, um, through having
a name that resonates with that.
But the, by the way, I, the way that's even started was I would listen to a, I was listening
to a PewDiePie video and he would get a book review on Nicky B, Nicky BK and ethics and
by Aristotle and he just did a book review, which is like, you wouldn't expect PewDiePie
to do that, but he did.
And I was like, Oh, that's really interesting to talk to you like thinking about, like figure
out how people understand trying to understand how people think and why they do the things
that they do and that just laid me on the trajectory to like, kind of just want to understand
people more.
Yeah.
And like, and I still haven't read through the whole, that whole book because it's so
dense because Aristotle was like really just like he's dead.
It was all a dead stuff.
But, uh, but like, and that just sent me on a trajectory, but I can pinpoint when I was
like, Oh wow, that's pretty cool.
And I wasn't even thinking about like, Oh, that I, at that time I was even thinking about,
Oh God must, must, must, must me to walk in this direction.
It was just like, it was just this, just interest I didn't know I had.
Yeah.
And as it like, and then I think like that for me was like, that was a plant, a seed
that got planted at some point.
Yeah.
It was like just waiting for it to, um, to take some root and show it, show it, just
show a little, like it showed like the leaf popped up out of the soil.
Yeah.
No, that's so good.
I, and I don't know if I have the words, um, right now to describe exactly what I, what
I think I'm like, I want to the picture I wanted to paint, but I think something that's
so what I believe is, is that we always want to have the title, not, okay.
That's not the right word.
Cause I don't, I don't mean like a job title or anything like that, but it's like, we want
the defined thing before we actually start walking towards it or we start to set goals.
Cause I'm a planner.
I love, I love like, Hey, okay.
Here's all the things that, you know, we're human.
We want control of things.
And so when, before I've really started to learn this myself, I, it was like, okay, what's
the end goal?
The end goal is to be a pastor.
Okay.
What does it look like to be a pastor?
Let me do some research.
And then it's like, okay, like here's the step one, here's step two.
And so often when, especially when God's working in it, um, but also, you know, when you're
just looking, okay, what's my purpose?
And when we want that defined thing, like this is what I'm going to be here is how it's
going to look.
And you want to do all the steps.
And it's just like, it doesn't work that way half the time.
And so like, when you're sharing your story, it's like, man, it just, like, it just kind
of came up and I started doing this and I did that and I did this.
And like so often that's what it looks like.
And um, you know, cause even in my life, when, you know, when, when, what led quickly to
being a pastor was just like, I wanted to know more about God and I wanted to share
it with people.
And so what did that, what that looked like was just like, Hey, getting in groups of people,
I have a guy, small group have a, have, be a part of serving in the college ministry.
It just looked like these little things that I ever say, Oh, I want to be a pastor.
No, I never literally never came out of my mouth probably until maybe like a week, like
the week I was asked to like, Hey, is this something you'd be interested in?
And honestly, and I think, um, I think that's how it works.
A lot of the times it's, it's like, you know, God's guiding you through those things.
Um, and when we try to make it up ourselves, we take control of it and we kind of limit
what God wants to do with us.
Yeah.
I don't even know where to go from here.
Um, it's just, I got, I don't know.
I love talking about calling.
That's what I want it like the podcast to be about.
I'm just like, right.
So on that topic, then like we're talking about like, okay, what did you mention before?
Like, where do you find your, like, where do you find your calling?
What are the things that you find in God?
Like, what are like, what's like the, if you, if you could take a practical for something
practical and be like, how can someone actually know that they're on the right path?
They're like, Hey, I'm actually like working towards something that you're working in on
calling or working towards something.
Yeah.
Um, I don't think there's a straightforward answer to that, but I think, um, you know,
when, when you're walking in your calling, when you're walking in your purpose, um, you
know, something that you want to say about it is, is that it will come, it will come
together.
It'll come smoothly.
Okay.
And that's just not the, that's not true necessarily.
Um, cause there's going to be bumps in the road.
There's going to be challenges.
There's going to be times where you don't feel comfortable.
There's like all of these things are going to happen.
Right.
So there will be a steadfast understanding, you know, in your, in your heart, um, that
you are walking down the right path.
And I, there's been so many times where, you know, even, you know, let my five years or
so of being a pastor, almost five years, four and a half years of being a pastor, there's
so many times where it's like, is this it?
Yeah.
Should I be doing this?
You know, and questioning things.
And, um, and that's okay.
Like we're, when the minute we stopped questioning things and the minute we stopped, we just
start believing that this is what we're, this is everything we're supposed to.
Yes.
There's, there's a good aspect of confidence, but when you start spilling into like pride,
it's a whole different, it's a whole different ball game.
Um, but how do you know you're on the right path?
Um, from a, from a Christian perspective, you will continue to, you will continue to
be confirmed in different things that God's doing, whether it's opportunities that come,
whether it's him, him specifically speaking to you through other people or him speaking
to you specifically in your prayer time or, or whatever it looks like, there's going to
be confirmations and they're going to look different.
They're not always the same thing.
It's all over the place.
Um, you know, speaking from a, you know, um, a secular standpoint, I think, you know, look
at the fruit.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, that goes for both actually, you know, I think from a, from a Christian
perspective, but also, um, from a secular perspective, look at the fruit, like what's
coming out of it.
Um, you know, there's going to be times where good things come out of things, you know,
um, decisions that you make.
But when it comes to something that you're called to your purpose to, I mean, it overflows,
like it's, it's, it comes so abundantly, you know, okay, this is where I'm at.
It's where I'm supposed to be.
Um, and I'm not talking, I mean, it could look like finances, but it could just look
like joy.
It could look like, um, viewers.
It could look like listeners.
It could look like whatever it is.
Um, but it doesn't, it's not always that one metric.
Um, sometimes I believe people are purpose to do things that doesn't come into fruition
for years, you know, and they're like, they're sitting there, they're doing the thing and
they believe they're meant to do it.
And it just takes some time to, to come into, come into sight.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Yeah.
That's a really good answer.
I was asking that question and you were like, there's not really an answer to that.
I was like, yeah.
So yeah, no, no, I get, which I get like there really isn't like, I think, um, I think
it's kind of thing as you were like saying, as I could tell what you're leading, uh, it's
like, it's like for every person and for every person that you're, you're gonna use, you're
just at some point, I feel like you're, yeah, you say you're going to question it.
You're going to, you're going to wonder, you're going to want, you're going to want, you said
before you go in on one to know for sure every single step of the way, but that's literally
impossible.
Yeah.
And I think when you think practically about it, it makes it even more difficult because,
what you do is, is your, your gut is, is to go to the numbers, go to the, go to the metrics.
And it's one of those things where it's like metrics and all of those things are good.
I'm the metrics guy.
I'm the guy that makes the graphs.
Like you know what I mean?
Like I'm the one that wants to know like all that information, but it's like, if you use
that information to determine whether something's your purpose or not, because of a result,
like you were just going to be results driven.
You're going to be, you're going to be fear-based.
You're going to be, you know, it's not going to, you're not going to, it's not going to
flow.
And the other thing I want to answer is like the, the like when you're stepping in, you're
walking in your purpose and you're calling like, man, things, things just flow out of
you, you know, and like whether it's, whether it's your, the joy in your life, whether it's
your pursuit of whatever that is, your determination, your, your motivation, like those things will
like flow out of you as, as you walk towards those things, as opposed to like, you know,
just constantly be grinding, constantly be depressed, constantly striving.
Like when you, the fruit, bad and good fruit, just you got to identify it and identify it
when you're just going through a tough season or not, you know, it's, it gets, it gets challenging
and you can't look at every challenge as, oh, this means it's not what I'm supposed
to do.
Yeah.
I think that kind of like, I want to, I read reading my Bible this morning and it's my
John, it's my John Maxwell leadership Bible.
And it's like, uh, I'm in Ephesians and is this, is this, I want to, I want to do a whole
episode just on this one sentence, cause he's, he's at the end of this one little excerpt
he put, um, passion is the first step to, uh, to achievement.
And I think, I think about that, like if, yeah, if you're not, if you have the passion
to even start, but if you have the, like you have, like that's where it starts with like
something internal.
I think that's a lot of like what they, what on the point he'll talks about on the thing,
you're a rich, like he said, like you, it starts with a thought and then it flirts and
it turns into this fire, this burning passion to like pursue something.
Yeah, that's good.
And you might not even know what that thing is.
Um, but like, you know, but like you start heading in a direction and then like you just,
and then like the, after you have the passion, you start and you just start going in any
direction and you just start, you start going in some way without knowing where you're going.
And I think Don Maxwell also says like, uh, the headlight of a car, like you're only,
you can only see, you can only see so far ahead of you when everything is dark around
you and the headlights only shine so far, but you keep moving forward because you know,
you know, you're going to be okay if you keep moving forward.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
That's, that's really good.
Yeah.
Passion is, uh, you know, it's, it's something that, it's something that burdens you so much,
you know, it's like something that it breaks your heart and that you have, it's where compassion
comes from.
But I think, you know, like when you have passion for something, it's like, it's the,
it's fueling you and, um, and you'll have passion for things that, um, you're meant
to, you know, um, that's really, really good.
Yeah.
And I think we touched on a little bit before, um, or at least we were almost kind of leading
to it, but, um, like we're talking about pursuit, like pursuit of the calling and like, I guess
we kind of have answered it, but maybe in more, maybe we can talk about it in more precise,
of a precise way.
Um, like how do you confidently pursue that calling though?
Yeah.
I think, um, one of the big things, um, once again, we, it's really easy to assess what
you're, what you believe you can do, um, in your own effort.
It's, it's really hard.
It's really easy.
I mean, to, to, to limit yourself and just, and see yourself only for what you see yourself
as.
And, um, and something that is challenging is, is okay, like, where do you get your confidence?
Yeah.
You know, and, um, you know, like you said, we've touched on some of those things already,
but you know, where, where do you get your confidence?
You get your confidence in the numbers.
Do you get confidence in the amount of encouragement you get from other people or good feedback
or whatever that looks like?
Um, and so I think, you know, being a pastor and, um, as my, you know, as my primary thing
that I'm doing right now, my main purpose is days and weeks and months and things like
that.
Um, if I, if, if that, if I did that, man, I, um, I'd be discouraged really, really quickly
just because there's a moment where it's like, Hey, you know, we have a service, you know,
God's moving, God's doing things, you know, people were saved, all of these things.
It's like, that's incredible, like incredible.
And it's so easy to just take that, um, and almost forget it.
If the next day you find out like one of your students, you know, speaking about you is
like one of your students is, um, falling back into sin and is, you know, trying to
figure out what's next.
And you have to, you know, pastor them through that and all of these things.
It's so easy to just like get caught up in the one thing, you know, um, and not focus
on, you know, what God's doing in it at all.
Right.
And, um, and so we, we, we need to do to be confident in what we're moving forward.
And this is like, yes, understand what like metrics do, but, um, what you need to be able
to do is, is look at the numbers, um, but also look at, okay.
If everything was calm, I guess, if everything's going smoothly, um, and there's nothing, nothing
rippling, no, no challenge, no, no friction.
I would really question if that's actually your calling or your purpose.
Um, because I don't know, it's, if you've been in this world, this world's ugly.
This world is sinful.
This world is full of a lot of evil things.
And the thing is, is like, if your purpose to do something that your purpose to do that
because you're going to create change, you're going to create good where there's bad or,
you know, you're, you're there to, to move something forward.
You're there to improve something.
You're there to, to bring life to something.
And when you're just like, if you feel like you're just cruising and there's smoothness,
there's not, there's nothing happening.
Um, I would question whether, you know, that one, is that what you're supposed to be doing
or are you doing it the way that you're, you're meant to do it?
Um, because you know, there's, there's when you confidently are walking in something,
things have to shift.
Yeah.
Things have to move.
Um, and, and I think how do you do that?
It's constantly reminding yourself that it's not out of your effort.
It's out of God's effort, um, and God's strength.
And the minute that you start to turn that scope and that focus back to you, you're going
to be disappointed.
Like, I'm weak.
Like I'm not like Rob Gazowski has who, who's Rob Gazowski.
Rob Gazowski as a pastor is terrible.
Somebody who can't, can't be perfect.
Can't be like, I don't have what it takes.
I just don't, you know?
Um, and I'm not, I'm not trying to be self-deprecating or anything like that, but with the reality
is like, God has given me things.
Um, and he continues to show me things and refine me to be a pastor.
Um, there's been so many weeks where I should have been down and out.
There's so many months where I've should have been down and out.
Um, and he continues to supply.
He continues to supply, um, and continues to grace when I don't deserve it.
And, and so how do you walk in confidently?
Um, it is, it is taking the focus off of you and taking the focus off of just your skillset
and putting it into something greater.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Cause like, I honestly, like I was, I, I know, I don't know how you're going to answer the
question and I was like, I like how your answer was just like, well, what, what, like what's
your confidence or where's your confidence coming from?
Yeah.
And like that, that was like one of the, probably the best, one of the best answers I could
have asked for.
Like honestly, just because like if you're like, yeah, because like I am, I, I'm a numbers
person too.
I like the metrics.
Like I went to, I, I, I host this, I host this podcast from a platform that gave me
metrics so I could watch them.
And um, I, I get stuck in that trap sometimes.
I look at the numbers, like, ah, man, this episode didn't do us good or Spotify showing
me that some people, people dropped off this early.
I'm like, it's just like, for me, like I'm learning to just use those as indicators.
Yeah.
They have value.
Right.
They have value.
It's, it's, yeah, they're, cause, cause here's the thing.
You know, I'm in ministry just using ministry as the, we can even use podcasting too, as
an example is the, if you don't have the numbers and you're not looking at the numbers, then
everything you are saying is anecdotal.
And when it is only that you can describe it however you want.
Like you're, you're what you're gauging things off of is completely subjective.
And so I, you know, both, you need both, you need both of them.
And so, yeah, you don't live and die on the numbers, but you also don't only rely on like
a subjective way of giving feedback.
You need both of them.
And, and so it's like this, the, the conversation pieces of feedback, those paint the picture
to what the numbers say and the numbers paint the picture to what, you know, and so, yeah,
we're going on a whole data, data thing, but no, absolutely.
I think you need the numbers in a podcast.
You need to understand where your viewers are coming from.
You need to understand, you need to know those things and they will drive more viewership
because you know those things.
Use them.
It's beautiful.
Don't just sit there blindly and you know, you could do things, but use them.
But don't, don't, yeah, don't live and die off them.
Don't make them your driver.
Don't make them your why.
Don't make them your, your feel.
Yeah.
I think that can go for like, I can, I'll associate this with your, like the youth ministry.
Like if nobody shows up for a year, it only, there's only like six people showing up for
like a straight year.
Like you can be like, okay, well what, why?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, there's so many things.
I mean, even just thinking about youth ministry, I mean, graduation, vacations, spring break,
you know, sports, it's, it's the, I can go down a laundry list of reasons why your numbers
might be down or your numbers might be up or whatever it looks like.
And so, you know, you can't, if you live, if you, if you live, if I live by a week by
week, I would be a nervous wreck all the time.
Like, is anyone going to show up?
Are we going to have more people?
You know, like, it's just not worth it.
Right.
But it is worth it to go back and look, I said, Hey, over the past six months, like
why, why did that increase there?
Why did that go down?
Okay.
If we, if we can't truly explain it, like, okay, like what was, what was the trend the
whole time?
Like, are we, are we, are more kids coming and why?
Right.
And it's always asking those questions of like, Hey, it's not just like, yay, we got,
you know, a hundred percent more than we had last year.
It's like, no, that's not the only thing it's, Hey, okay, we might have, you may, maybe you
doubled your attendance, but why, why are they coming?
Right.
Are they growing?
Are they being discipled?
Are they being careful?
You know, that, and so there's just, yeah, there's just, it's, it's so much more than
the numbers, but the numbers are important to look at.
Yeah.
Cool.
Yeah.
I think it's okay.
Yeah.
With, with all, like we talked about a lot and like, we talked about, like, in it, like
with all, like we talked about youth, we talked about all these other things that were happening
before that aren't happening anymore.
Like with, and like, with all these changes that have happened within the last year, like,
like how, how did you like, and they, you and maybe you and your wife, like, how did
you guys navigate, how did you guys navigate that?
And like, did it ever, with ever, ever a sense like of wavering or like, what did you like,
and what kept you on course when you were in that time?
That's a really great question.
So I'm about to get deep here for a second and just real.
So you know, the past year, year and a half, I would say, I mean, honestly, you could say
four years, but I'm, we'll just stay focused on the past year and a half.
It's been, I mean, challenge after challenge after challenge after challenge after challenge.
And if, and if I focus just on the challenges, which we'll talk about here in a second,
I mean, I would, if I looked at it from an earthly perspective, I mean, I would have
given up by now, you know, a long, long time ago.
And so, and I'm not just saying about being a passer, but just in general, like what is,
what is happening in my life and why, you know, I would have, I would have definitely
given up a long time ago.
And so just kind of looking at the past year and a half, number one, like me and my wife
have had one pretty really traumatic failed pregnancy.
We had two others that were, you know, they're all so traumatic, obviously, but the situation
wasn't as traumatic as the first one.
But you know, to the point where things could have been life threatening, you know, and
we're still battling through, you know, trying to become pregnant even today.
And in Jesus name, I mean, maybe when I go back in and watch this in a year, I'll have
a child.
But I, you know, just dealing with that alone is just really tough.
And it's one of those things that not a lot of people talk about, right?
You know, when it comes to like trying to have a kid and miscarriages and all that subject,
it's a very sensitive one.
But you know, going through that for the past year, because that happened in, you know,
early spring, you know, spring last year, almost winter.
And so going through that, but then also there's a time period where, you know, so prior to
being a youth pastor, I was a campus pastor.
And there was a season for about seven months where I was leading two campuses, you know,
me and my wife.
And you know, that's not, you know, at the time I was full time at the church and but
that's no easy feat.
I mean, if there's anybody listening as a campus pastor, they understand that.
But going through that, so we're just staying on the challenges for now.
But then kind of at the end of this past year, you know, had a lot of ministry changes, which
led me to be coming a youth pastor and really just, you know, going through the navigating
of the really difficult things of a church separating the two different churches and
now leading Amplify Youth, you know, since January.
It's and actually one more challenge to throw in there is currently I'm working a full time
job in addition to being the Amplify Youth Pastor.
And so totally different landscapes, one side to the other, to the other.
And if I just looked at those plainly and man, I would I just it's like, man, I'm how
like how did I do that?
How did I how did we get through that?
How did how are we still how are we where we are today and in the manner in which we
are.
And it's just it's God, man.
You know, it's God.
And how do you did you waiver?
Yes, I wavered.
We wavered many times, you know, you know, one just navigating something that's so just
full of grief, you know, when it comes to miscarriage to to walking individuals through
their life and pastoring them and caring for them.
Because like I'm like my wife is a very outgoing person.
That doesn't mean she's like doesn't have challenges in this area.
But like for me, like I'm like I grew up introverted.
I was looking at the whole I was looking down at the ground, going through the hallways
in high school, all these things.
And so for me to, you know, for me to be going through something like that, that's so emotionally
taxing.
But then also like be emotionally pouring myself out, spiritually pouring myself out
on a daily basis as a pastor.
Man, it's like my my like meter would go down to like nothing so quickly.
And that's where I wavered because it was like, I don't think I have what it takes
today to go home to my wife the way that I believe I should or or to the student or to
the to the family who needs me as a pastor, you know, like whatever it looks like.
There's so many days where it's like, oh gosh, I just don't have it.
And so what got me through that?
Right.
Like what?
That's the question.
Like what?
What?
What got me through that?
The simple answer is God.
Right.
But to be to be more definitive around that is through all of that, man, all of those
challenges and people listening probably can list off a list just as big as mine.
Right.
And I'm going through things.
And the thing that was so consistent through it all was him consistently showing me that
he's still working, consistently showing me that there's hope, consistently showing
me that like this is what I've this is what I've called you to do.
And fruit is coming and fruit is is coming right now and will come.
And I'm going to bless you.
I'm going to all of these things.
And so when the wavering happened, you know, having a marriage that is God centered and
God focused is a huge thing.
Having mentors and having people that care about you and speaking to your life is so
important being community.
Don't isolate yourself.
But one of the things is just I could constantly through all of that, all of the challenges
is just constantly keep seeing, man, like, look at God work.
Like even in like the hardest times of like a transition in your role or transition in
your church or something like that, it's like you could I could still just point to things
and be like, man, look what God's doing in that person or like look what God's doing
in that community.
And and it's rather than just sitting there looking at your current circumstances, it's
looking at eternity.
And I'm not trying to like be super pastoral or any spiritual here.
But it's like the reality is, is like, man, like what you are going through, even if it's
a year, even if it's been five years, it is like a end of the tip of a pencil, you know,
in comparison to what eternity is.
And and so having that perspective of like, hey, what my challenge might be today.
And for me, you know, it feels like punch after punch after punch.
It's like, get up, punch again, get up, punch again.
And the challenge is not taking those things and blaming God for them.
Yeah.
What I mean, what I but what we have seen and like me and my wife, you know, in our
particular story is like he's been building so much endurance in us and it's for a purpose.
And you know, and some of that purpose is already being walked out today.
But also, I believe it's for so much more in the future of like, there's things that
should have taken us out even this year that didn't that barely shook us because of what
he has shown us and what he has done in us and the strength that he's built in us.
And so when we talk about, you know, what does it look like?
You know, how can you go on a podcast and talk about your miscarriage?
Well, I know I know for a fact that God's going to see us through that.
You know, and yeah, I'm sad.
Yeah, I cry sometimes when I'm thinking about it or when like, yeah, it's it's heartbreaking.
But at the same time, it's like, no, like, I know the hope that that God has given me
in that.
And so, yeah, there's so many, you know, when I talked about being a pastor, being a father
and being a builder, it's like there's so many times where as a pastor, it's like, am
I doing what I need to?
Like, am I doing the right thing?
Like, should I have said that or should I have, you know, whatever?
There's times where I'm like, OK, like as a father, like, you know, whether it's Earth
that you father, it's like, when's that going to happen?
Or if it's like a father from a pastoral sense, it's like, hey, like, did I guide them the
way that I should have?
Yeah.
And then as a builder, it's like, man, did that fail?
You know, what's the where what should happen?
And I think when you look at once again, if you get caught up in all of the trials, you
won't see the beauty that, you know, is really in it.
So constantly changing your focus away from it's not ignoring the problems.
It's not ignoring the challenges.
It's basically saying, OK, like that exists.
I'm going to learn from it and put it, move the move the purpose to like what's next.
Yeah.
It's really good.
Thanks, Rob.
Yeah, absolutely.
I want to speak a little bit to that when it comes to youth specifically, you know,
because right now you on paper, right on paper, if anyone tracks Amplify Youth at all, right?
It's like checking out our Instagram, checking out the things that are happening there.
It's like, oh, man, yeah, like, things are great.
You know, like, look at all.
I can't stand the word momentum when it comes to church.
I really can't because it's like you're you're writing something that I don't like it anyways.
But like, man, like God's doing something really amazing there in so many different
ways, whether it is like from an influence perspective on social media or it's from
what he's doing in the room and those students lives like it is incredible.
But the one thing I don't want I don't want to end this podcast without speaking to is,
man, that is not a product of Rob Gizowski.
Like that is not a product of us.
Yes, I will.
I will say like, hey, like God has used us in unique ways to to bless that ministry and
bless that community.
Like, I believe that I'm not saying that we have no hand in anything.
But what the reality is, is like, man, he has used so many people in so many incredible
unique ways and has called them and has purpose them to do those things that have just made
the whole thing what it is today.
And I don't believe we're anywhere near where, you know, he wants us to be.
I think we have a lot of work.
We have a lot of things to do.
I say work, but we have a lot of we have a lot of ground to take and not to get into
Bible stories.
But, you know, we talk about Nehemiah building the wall around Jerusalem.
And, you know, when he did that, it was, you know, he was praying.
He was seeking God.
He's staying focused.
Even when there's distractions, there's people coming, trying to kill them, knock down the
wall, distract them, all those things.
And when he was building it, he was building while he was he was protecting and he was
defending.
They had a sword in one hand and they're building in the other.
And so for me, it's like as we as amplify youth builds, you know, the job's not done.
There's a lot.
There's a lot of things that we believe God wants to do.
At the same time, it's like we got to protect ourselves, you know, and we got to protect
what is being built and not just like just like personally, but spiritually with God,
like, you know, God's going to protect that ministry.
And and man, so many leaders, so many students that that ministry is a really
incredible, incredible thing because of the students that are there, because of the leaders
that are there.
They like I said, they're all purpose for something and they're using it for for God's
glory.
And so it's not, oh, you know, Rob and Leah came in and bang, look at all these things
that happened.
Yeah.
I mean, there's definitely aspects of it that, you know, that we brought to it and there's
vision that we brought to it and there's, you know, cultural things that we we allow
and there's cultural things that we don't allow that have impact on that.
But man, putting like, you know, the creative team, the production team, the community team,
the small group leaders, the the students that are leading one another, that are leading,
you know, help assisting leading small groups, coming up with ideas on how we can change
the world and change the community.
I mean, it's just day after day after day after week after week after week.
It's like, man, like it's been five to six months and it's just things that are completely
out of our control.
Yeah.
Are happening.
And so that's why I say some things pretty ambiguously.
You know, like how do you how do you stay confident?
Like, what do you do for the next step?
I say I'm fairly ambiguously because like, man, there's so many things that have happened
that have blessed us that I'm just like, I didn't do that.
Yeah.
Or like, you know, our creative team didn't do that.
Like they didn't like plan that out.
That wasn't something that was planned.
It was like, hey, they kept on walking in their purpose, focused on God, focused on
what they were meant to do.
And it's like, man, like God showed up and God's doing crazy things.
And so so, yeah, we're still, you know, we're still finding out that, hey, there's a lot
of ground to take.
And so we're going to be focused.
We're going to take that ground and be confident in it, even though it's going to be a struggle,
because we're talking about high schoolers in 2024.
I mean, it's a it's a it's a different ball game, not not because of their own fault,
but because of the world.
And and so they're that group of kids.
And I know there's going to be so much more to come are just like they're fighters and
they love God.
And and so it's going to be something special to see them like take the reins, you know,
and you know, the next several years.
So yeah.
Amen.
All right.
Yeah.
Amen.
Well, thank you for for finishing off the podcast, the episode like that.
And just I like to wrap up every episode by just asking two questions.
And one is, who would you?
Well, I guess this is typically the second one.
But one, who would you like to hear on this podcast?
Who do you think would be good?
It can be literally anybody.
Wow.
Great question.
I had like a it's funny because I had like a thought and then I was like, wait, no, I
had another thought and I was like, wait, no.
Honestly, one of the things that I've always found so, so interesting is what is it like,
what does it look like?
So I'm thinking of people that are in a position of influence.
Yeah.
But it's almost like you are unaware of the amount of influence and power you have in
by what you say.
And it's like, man, to be that person and understand like, hey, like you have so much
influence and what are you doing with it?
Like what are your thoughts about that?
So let's just say on this podcast that we can talk about purpose and talk about calling
and how they use it.
I would say let's bring in I'm going to go with a great F1 driver and Max Verstappen.
Okay.
You're probably like, who is that guy?
He's the greatest driver of all time for anyone who wants to know.
Okay.
Let's say Max Verstappen and somebody who I know as a as another maybe he's been on
here before.
I don't I have no idea.
But I'd say Lee Lee, who I'm going on my bike ride with.
Okay.
I have not had him on.
No, Lee is incredible.
Lee is one of our servant leaders at amplify youth.
But man, the way that man would look to the world.
Very uniquely.
And man, it's just like to have so much like influence and certainty and confidence, but
to do it so quietly is one of the and what I mean by quietly is not just like loudness
of voice, but just like so subtle is really, really awesome.
So Lee is Lee would be another one.
Okay.
May I get some contact information?
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, sweet.
Okay.
For both of those.
I don't know about the first one.
Second one I can hook you up with.
Sweet.
Okay.
Um, and then the next last question is for anybody that wants to dive a little bit deeper
into personal development growth calling purpose.
What are some resources you would point them towards?
Yeah.
So, um, man, there's, there's so many.
Um, and it's funny because I'm sitting in, I'm sitting in, uh, uh, the office as I would
say in for the podcast and there's books all around that I'm like, man, like that's one
that I just read and that's what it should be.
So, um, but Tom McCavitt's incredible book, um, lead like it matters by Craig Rochelle
is a standard one.
I feel like, um, and all things John Maxwell.
But I, um, all of those things are really, really great, but sometimes I'm just speaking
to the people who are wired like me.
Yeah.
Sometimes it's really hard to just like sit down and read a book and, and for you to just
retain it.
And so there is, you know, we're listening to a podcast now.
Yeah.
And so I think one, like so many podcasts, um, out there, a lot of them look different.
Don't just watch, like listen to one and think that's, that's the flavor of the day.
Right.
Try different ones.
Try out Craig Rochelle's try out.
So other leaders that, um, you know, that are doing different things, like even technically
short, um, and, and just test something out and something will stick and it'll be so much
easier to just like to be blessed by that, um, whether it's in your car ride, whether
it's you just walk, taking a walk, whatever.
Um, I just had a really hard time sometimes just sitting down and reading a book, um,
especially if it's not the Bible.
So get a podcast or even audio books.
Yeah.
Um, great resource just to walk around and just hear wisdom coming from a book.
But yeah, I would say, I would say Atomic Habits is a really, it, it, with everything
else I've been saying, being very spiritually laced, I would say Atomic Habits is a really
good practical one for sure.
So yeah.
Awesome.
Well guys, thank you for listening to this episode of the podcast of technically short.
And if you haven't already, share this episode out on all your social medias, give us a,
um, five star at Spotify and on Apple podcasts and drop a comment if you feel so inclined.
All right, guys, we'll see you next time.
Bye.
Thank you.