What's going on guys? Welcome to this episode of Why Are You Here on Technically Short.
Today we have a heartfelt conversation with our special guest Meg Croyle.
Meg shares her insights on purpose and we discuss how it is not solely related to one's
career or actions but also tied to one's creation and existence. She emphasizes that
purpose is multi-layered and can be found in everyday experiences. She also delves into
her personal journey with depression and how understanding her purpose helped her through
it. We also end up discussing the value of realizing one's individuality and how it
contributes to the uniqueness of their purpose.
Guys, Meg is one of the nicest, sweetest people you're ever going to hear and hopefully meet
one day. So take your notebook, take your pen out, take some notes and we'll see you
in there.
Hey guys, welcome to Technically Short. I'm Sean. I'm Thomas. And today's episode we
have a special guest.
Alright guys, today our guest is Meg Croyle and before we let her talk, we're going to
give the exaltations a little bit differently this time. Well, not differently, but I have
an extra piece to it. Okay. So I did the same thing last time. I just kind of wrote instead
of bullet points now, I like kind of writing a sentence. So I'm going to say mine, you
can say yours and I have one more thing. Okay. So Meg is kind, loving and caring. She's not
just a leader of people younger than her, but to those around her as well. She's one
of many women we know that set a great example for others to follow.
That's really good. If I describe Meg, I would say that she's a godly woman, a strong woman,
kind, loving, all in all fun. She's super fun. And yeah, she's a wonderful influencer
to the generations to come and the generations before.
Thanks guys.
So in the last night at like 8.30, I had a thought, it was like, we know you from a particular
angle, but what's the perception of somebody else? So I reached out to Nate Miller at 8.30
last night. I was like, Hey man, how do you see Meg?
Just out of the blue.
I was like, can you give me like a description? He's like, what do you mean? Give me some
more context. And this is what he said. He said, I see Meg as a loving, caring and great
person. She knows how to lead our generation and youth group as well. And it's awesome
to be able to know her as a leader and a friend. If I could give you one word to describe Meg,
it would be joy. Because Meg is always doing everything in joy and always has a smile on
her face. Whether that be worshiping, preaching, working, or just hanging out, you can count
on Meg to always be smiling and happy to be there.
Well, thanks Nate. I love you. I totally forgot this is like what you guys do at the beginning.
And I love that you do that, but I wasn't prepared for it emotionally. It just starts
the podcast crying.
Thank you for being on the show.
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
What is like for people who don't know you, like a quick rundown of who Meg Croyall is?
Yeah, absolutely. I'm Meg Croyall. I am 22. I am a part time barista, part time student.
I love working, like was mentioned, at our church. I love serving with our youth ministry.
So I'm really passionate about the next generation. And I love coffee. I think, I don't know what
else, I think that's the Meg in a bubble.
That's awesome. So you know that this series, this is part, I think I put down part five.
Yeah, pretty sure. Might be wrong. But part five of the series, Why Are You Here? And
series all about purpose. So like from what, from your perception, what is the purpose
of purpose?
Okay, I love this question. I actually did a little bit of homework beforehand. I looked
up just the definition when you Google purpose, what is purpose? And it said the reason for
which something is done or created. And I actually really love that because I feel like
whenever you try to tackle the topic of purpose, it's like so massive. Like, I feel like that's
why there's so much content on it. And it's like, you think by now we would have been
like, no, we nailed down what purpose is like, why do we need to keep talking about it? But
it's like, no, there's still so much. And I think it's multi layered. And so I've also
been listening to the last several episodes of the podcast, and you guys have done such
a great job with it. And I like love that there's so much depth to go into, I think.
So when I was thinking about like my answer, I actually before knowing this definition,
almost came to the conclusion that that was the definition. Because I know you guys are
believers, and this is specifically Christian podcast, but you guys are both Christians.
So it's like, gotta influence things. And like I am as well. But I was also thinking,
like, I have a lot of dear friends that aren't believers. And so I wouldn't go as far as
saying like, they don't have purpose. And so I was like, just kind of thinking through,
like, what does that mean? And I think that's kind of it of like, purpose can be the reason
you were created. And that's like, that innately ties you to like being created by someone.
And like, you can't fully understand the totality of purpose if you don't have that, at least
my take on it. But then there's also the reason for which something is done. And it's like,
I know people who are very purposeful, who aren't believers or have different beliefs.
And so I was like, okay, what does that look like? And I think it's because it's multi
layered. And so I can see people that have a lot of purpose in their work or in their
families or like, they take pride in, I want to care for them, I want to bring a certain
joy or light to this thing, and I want to reach a certain goal. And so there's like
a purpose, a focus, there's a reason that you're going after it. And then there's also,
and I would say even outside of like, what your beliefs are in like God, or if you were
created or if you just exist, like whatever you believe in that sense, we all have to
agree with we exist, right? Yeah, yeah. There is a reason that in 2024, like Sean Short
and Thomas Carney exist and that you guys are where you're at and that you have the hair
color you have and you have the background you have and the family you have, like all
of those things, just like the statistical ability of like, that you specifically with
all of the factors that make you you would exist is insane. Yeah. Like, there's, I don't
know, 8 million people or whatever on the planet, but there's almost like infinite possibilities
of the people that could exist. Right. Yeah. And that we were put here to be people that
do exist, not just a theoretical but like, you were chosen with purpose. Yeah, absolutely.
And so that kind of gives me a different look at it that I'm like, well, every single person
that is here and is breathing like has purpose, like every person who has lived has and who
will live, like there's a purpose to that. That's so good. Wow. That's, that was a lot.
That was a lot. That was great. Like, I haven't thought like, these are the things I feel
like everybody would say they inherently like, kind of like on a very surface level, no.
Yeah. But spending actual time doing a deep dive on it, it's like there's so much more
to it than what's on the surface. And like, we're, we all have to agree that yes, we exist.
And so if we exist, like, then what is that? What's that for? And like, if I think like,
if you're living and you exist, and you think that's just for no reason at all, I think
that's depressing. Yeah. And good. I was about to say, but that's what happens when you lack
the, the vision of purpose or lack the meaning of your life is you just go through a life
not really existing. You're just, you went to school because you live there, you do the
job because your parents did. Like you, when you, you just start becoming like a non-person
or NPC. NPC. Yeah. Yeah. Literally become that. And it's like sad, but like you have
to like realize that you have value and you bring purpose. And if you don't realize that,
then I feel like you lack purpose. And when you lack purpose, you head to a road of destruction.
Yeah. Can I add onto that? I actually think it's really interesting that you brought that
up because I let a little bit over a year ago went through a period of struggling with
depression for the first time. And it's something that like, if you haven't experienced it,
it's hard to quantify and understand. And then once you've experienced it, it's like,
you have this whole different perception on it. And there's a lot of factors that go into
that, like just like biological and you know, like generational and all of the different
things. But also I was noticing a lot of the situations that would trigger more so. And
it was lacking fulfillment in, but it wasn't like, Oh, I didn't have a purpose. It was,
I thought this one box was my purpose. And because I wasn't checking that box, I then
lacked purpose. And so I feel like part of what I've been learning is that like, like
I said earlier, like purpose is like this whole topic. It's this big, like it's this
big dark board almost. And it is compiled of all these different rings and levels. But
if I'm only focusing on this one aspect, then I'm going to measure if I have purpose by,
if that thing is being successful. And so often like, I think we all know this, we talked
about it of like, Oh, it's like the journey is like important. And it's like, yes, the
outcome is important, but like who you are and how you live on the way there is like
also important. But then when we're in our own lives, it can be easy to like skip over
that. And so I, that's where I kind of feel like it does break down to like, okay, purpose
for which you do something. So it's like, okay, even if it's just like a conversation,
my purpose is like, I want to get to know the person I'm sitting across from to maximize
that. Again, the fact that they are the person that they are, and I'm the person that I am
and we are sitting in the same room is crazy. And so taking the moment to be like, okay,
then I just want to, who knows like what we might connect on. Like I don't want to take
this moment for granted. Excuse me. But then also, and this is where a little bit of my
faith comes into is if you go back to the definition of like, you were created, you
have to recognize your purpose before it relates to other people, before it relates to boss
that you can check off, relates to I was created. And so however you take that, however you
took that, like that wouldn't be a challenge for the listeners of just like sitting with
that for a moment. It's like, where does that take you? For me, it takes me to, okay, if
God created me, then the first thing that I'm, my purpose is, is to be loved by God.
And then in turn for me to love him. And before anything else that there's purpose in that.
And so I try to remind myself of that, especially I'm a very go getter. And I think a lot of
your listeners are too, like this whole podcast is all like personal development and growth,
you know? And that's a good thing. But I often have to check myself and be like, okay, am
I getting my worth and my purpose from things that I may or may not do? Or from the fact
that it's a miracle that I'm here, you know? That's a blessing. I think I got chills.
Like I love, I have the definition you said, like purpose is like the reason something
is done or created. So like, if you think you're fulfilling your purpose by checking
a box, like that you're doing, that's something you're doing. But then what's the reason behind
that? What's the reason behind what you're doing? I feel like, like me, I want to be
a life coach. I want to coach people, but that's something I'm wanting to do. But that
was, why do I want to do that? And like that we can, that's a topic for another day. But
I actually had more, that would have been a whole tangent. But John Maxwell talks about,
we brought him up a lot, but like he has a take on purpose, which is really interesting.
And it goes into our faith as well. A calling is a purpose with a divine touch. And he says,
and then he goes on to say, it was a different talk, he did a different time. There's, I
mean, if you have, it was the difference between career and calling. And he goes, if you're,
and then how purpose works into that. If you're purpose, if you're bigger than your purpose,
then you have a career. If you're in that space, if that's what you're going for, if
your purpose is bigger than you, then you have a calling. Wow. That is good. And like,
what you, it's like, you have to understand what your purpose is before it can affect
other people. That's so good. And like, so I feel like a lot of people, like, yeah, you
can, they say their purpose is to, like, it could be maybe they don't physically think
about it, but like they're, but they're working on becoming successful. They want to be financially
successful when I have the family, when I do all these things. And like you said, if
they don't, if you don't get to that point, then what it, what, like you feel, you feel
empty. There's something missing. And then it's like actually retroactively thinking
like, man, like, why do I actually want these things? Like not that you shouldn't want them,
but understanding why you do. And then that's the purpose behind all that. Oh, that's so
good. Man. If, if I could touch on that, I just feel like everything you hit was like,
man, like a home run. Every time you were speaking, you, Annick, when I see purpose,
I see Moses. I see where God has divinely touched a man who had a heart for his people.
Because Moses at first was an Egyptian royalty. Like he didn't have to do any of that. Let's
just be real. He could have just sat back and did nothing and had the best life because
he is Egyptian royalty based off of God's word placement. Like God placed Moses as a
baby into the royalty family. You know what I mean? So there's so much factors that came
into that. Um, that was incredible because he could have just been a regular Hebrew slave,
right? But his purpose was to free the slaves. And like, and the way it was designed, I would
say is this is where it's like Moses couldn't achieve his purpose until he knew God. And
it was because like knowing God gave him the boldness, gave him the power, gave him the
strength to become the leader and also to free the people. So like when it comes to
purpose, I feel like, um, like makes sense. It is like there's macro and then there's
micro like purpose. So like a person who doesn't know God can do their micro purpose, but a
person who knows God can do their macro purpose. Okay. Okay. Sean. Oh, that's good. Then, um,
I want to keep going on this, but I want to, you touched on this a little bit already about
your struggle with purpose. Um, everybody struggles with that at some point in their
lives. Could you dive a little bit deeper in into that as far as you're comfortable?
Yeah, absolutely. Um, I am actually going to jump back a little bit further than I was
talking about. Um, I, so part of the reason I'm really passionate about the next generation
is I, um, was really impacted when I was in high school. Um, I had a lot of questions
about purpose, about life. Um, and I felt like there, it was just this season where
everything was coming up all at once. And I had, I was really blessed to have these
people around me that had lived some life and could give me some knowledge going into
it. And so, um, I remember having, honestly, since I was young, having a sense of purpose,
um, and feeling like, honestly, maybe like it was, I had it before other people did.
Um, and so I felt like there are times that I was like, Oh my gosh, like this is so serious.
Like purpose to everything that we're doing. And everyone else around me was like, let's
go play on the playground. And I'm like, I'm like here contemplating life and they're like,
why is she so serious? Um, and so I, uh, think that it is something that I took very like,
I want to look into this and I want to understand how life works. I want to know what my piece
fits into all of this. Um, and, but then also being like, okay, I'm in high school. I don't
know what I want to do career wise. Cause also a lot of, it is very easy to think that
career and college degree and all of that is your purpose. And I think like you're saying
like macro micro, like that is a level of purpose. That is a part of purpose. Um, but
it's not your whole thing. And so, um, I think that was also confusing for me. And so I was
just like trying to figure it out. I didn't know what I wanted to do, um, out of college
or like going into college. And, um, but I was like, but I have this passion to like
pursue something. Um, and I had a leader, um, she was giving a talk and she said, um, purpose
doesn't just happen. Um, and purpose isn't something that comes when you're 20, when
you've graduated, when you have the degree, like whatever. She was like, purpose comes
when you look for it. And it was so simple, but so profound. Um, and I remember going
like, okay, if that's, I'm going to look for it now. Um, and it made everything so much
easier because suddenly there was like, it took the, not the theoretical idea of purpose,
but that practical application of purpose right now. And so I was like, okay, this conversation,
this has meaning this school assignment that I don't want to do. This has meaning. Like
I was able to apply that to all these things. And it was a challenge because I started looking
at everything and going, okay, what is the purpose behind this? What is the why behind
it? Um, and that affects a lot. And I think at the same time, um, one of the revelations
I was having to was, um, there's okay, there's purpose for all of us, right? But also we
are each unique. And so your purpose looks a little bit different than mine, Sean, like
we, there may be some letters that may be crossover, but the totality of your purpose
is separate from my purpose because we're two different people. We're going to outwork
it in different ways. Even if like, honestly, we'd say the goal is the same. We're like,
we want people to know Jesus and we want people to be loved and we want to like make a positive
impact on the world. Like same, same thing, but different ways of will outwork that. And
so I was like, okay, like, what does that mean for how I'm going to outwork that? Um,
and so I think even part of that is like looking inward at yourself and being like, okay, what,
what makes me unique? What makes me different? So like, what, what is your background growing
up? What is your history? What is your, um, even actually love. Um, I think this is a really
practical point, even if you're not a believer, but in the Bible, there's a story of a woman
named Hagar and she, um, is at a crossroads in her life and she doesn't know what to do.
And the voice of God comes to her and says, where have you come from and where are you going? And
I think that's so profound in those two things are linked. And so I, I've come from feeling rejected
in relationships. I have come from a family that had foster brothers. I've come from being the
middle kid in a family. I've come from like literally all these tiny little things and it
all affects who I am, how I see the world and what I want to bring into the world. And so it's like,
I really want to include people. I really want to see systematic change in some things. I really
want to make safe homes for people. Like there's a, there's a underlying current to all of those
things. And so, um, I kind of will also look at purpose as like, find, um, your pain point
or find an area that like you personally attached to, um, and then find where your unique giftings,
talents, abilities, or even just the desire for those giftings, talents, abilities. Cause a lot
of those things can be cultivated too. Um, where those line up and then kind of put everything you
got in that area too. That's so good. No, I got something. Um, I love it. Like when
things that I experienced and learned in my past are connecting with like, with what's happening
in the present, because whenever I was, um, really doing a deep dive into like wanting to start my
business, it's specifically about like, like having a service, whatever that is, whether it's a coach,
whether, whatever you're doing. One of the things people would say was like, your clients are the
people who were you five years ago. Wow. And like, I think that's not just restricted to that section
of that, that piece of life. It's like, because I've, I want to be a coach, but that doesn't mean
that the meaning, the reason, the person behind me wanting to be a coach can, I think copy and
paste it into other areas of my life. Like whenever I'm like, whenever I'm leading production, I say
like, I see, like, I can think back to like, whenever I first started, first started production
and like, and be understanding, have a grace for the people that were, are where I was and be
thankful that for some of the people that are further than I was whenever I was their age.
And I was like, I like, if not, Maxwell says again, like this is tangenting a little bit, but like,
and the purpose, I'm going to go into leadership for a second. The purpose of a leader isn't to
stay at the top of the mountain. It's to, it's to walk down the mountain and then help other
people get back up. You already know the pitfalls, you already know the cliffs, you already know
everything. You walk, you walk back down the mountain, you help other people back up. And,
and like, that's like, I don't feel like, I don't feel like that, that's not just something that is
for people who are leaders by, by title, but it's for, it's a design that's been created because
it's like, everybody is, everybody is a person of influence. Everybody, everybody's a leader.
Everybody, everybody's leading or influencing somebody. Like right now we're influencing and
leading each other. And like, it's taking that aspect and like realizing that your purpose works
into, works into that. Like you said, where did you come from and where are you going? And we're
like, we'll also look at the people and being like, who, who, who are, who are the people who are
where you were and want to be where you are and how can you help them? And like, and that works
into, and that works into everybody's purpose, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's so good. I,
I was thinking of Fah, when I, when I was thinking about you guys' conversation and I started to
think about our first series and then what you said, it was like something that was divine that
stuck with me. And like, that would be, your purpose would be like a holy burden on you. It is
that thing that in your life that you know that you, you, without helping these other, and it's
always to help others. It's going to be like the thing that lays on your heart and you have to
figure out, okay, what manner can I help these people? And that's where you find your purpose.
Like, it's like, and it's, I love how you guys said it's definitely uniquely prescribed, right?
So it's like, specifically for each person has a different way of doing and serving their purpose
out. They might have once the inner link, but it's definitely different because everybody's going to
have a different purpose. Say we were all pastors in this room, right? We're all going to reach
different people from our past. Yeah. That our place, a part of it, our past experiences. Yeah.
How we grew up, our situations, but also just who we are. Yeah. You know, like some, some will have
more joy. Some will be more stirred. Some will be more kind. And it's like all those will be
definitely how they reach different people. Yeah. And they all play into your purpose, but your
purpose is always going to be the holy burden that's on your heart. So for me, it was loving
people and teaching people to love God, right? So that was my purpose in my entire life. And
I knew it from the age of five. It was always like, I want to make sure that I was like, okay,
I want to get everybody saved and then die. That was like my whole plan, right? It's like, I want
to go get everybody saved and then go see Jesus. And that was like that from the age of five. And
then like, as I grew older, I got to experience more and I got to know more. And then I got to
see other people were, were, they were teaching me and counseling me and I was able to expand it.
So then it became, okay, love God, love people, teach people to love God. And it started becoming
more and more like, okay, this is what you're supposed to do. And that can look different in
many ways. And it like, I love how you said it's, it's not like you just go to college, get your
degree and you're like, oh, purpose is done. Like I know it's like, no, like it's going to be the
way that you have a holy burden that you're going to serve out the rest of your life and help others
get to where you want to be and help them get other people to where they need to be as well.
So it's like a forever cycle until you're gone. So, yeah, so good.
Yeah. I know we kind of derailed your, but was there any more, anything else you wanted to say
on that about going through your, that could potentially help someone else get from where
they were, maybe where they are. And I think that's a good point.
To where they're hoping to be. Yeah. I will say it's kind of a common
through line from, I can think of high school Meg who needed to hear this and Meg a little over a
year ago who needed to hear this. And just the way that that has been reiterated and I've seen it.
But I, it's going to sound so motivational and so cheesy, but truly like if I can give one piece of
advice, it's like, don't give up. And I've heard it, I don't know who I'm quoting, I'm quoting someone,
but it's like, it's always too soon to give up. So don't give up too soon.
Yeah. And it's like, if you just kind of use that as a mantra in your life, it's like, okay, like
I, it's not an option. Like if you go into, I think Craig Gruchel talks about this of like
pre-decide and it's like, if you pre-decide giving up isn't an option. Now like pivoting
can be, so it's like, you may have thought, oh, I'm going to be a podcaster. And then it turns into
actually, I'm going to be a public speaker. Actually, I'm going to go and help in social
services. Like you can use your specific giftings in different ways. But I'm more so talking about
your life and your purpose. Like you're as a, as a full, complete human, don't give up on yourself.
And you can do that in multiple ways. Like I in high school struggled a lot with social anxiety
and I was giving up on purpose because I was limiting my options, what I was doing. Like I,
if I was in a conversation, I was trying to get out of that conversation as quickly as possible
because what are they thinking about me? Instead of thinking like, what can I maximize in this
opportunity? How could I use this? How can I learn from that person? How could I put some joy into
their life? How could they do the same to me? Like, so I would just say, don't give up. Don't
limit yourself because purpose is found in every day things. It's found in the ordinary mundane
things too. So good. Yeah. Do you have anything going on to add to that Sean? Oh man, it was,
it was really good. Um, I love how you said don't give up. And I feel like that is going to be the
motivation that the generation needs, right? They need to realize that like, okay, if you fell,
you make a mistake, you're not strong enough, you're not where you want to be. Don't give up.
If you have that attitude in life, you will always thrive. So I love that honestly,
anything you want to touch on. So when it comes to like,
try to, I want to ask a question, but I also want to try and make sure that it's like,
want to work it into what we're already talking about. But uh,
so do you think if it, as you were talking, if you could summarize that into like the greatest
lesson that you've learned, what, what would you say that that greatest lesson would be when it
comes to having, having or finding your purpose? Wow. Um, I would say, and I don't know if they
I feel like it was a unspoken part of what I've already said. Yeah. Um, but I would say,
don't focus on the purpose of the person beside you. Um, because I think that's often where we
get tripped up is, well, my purpose doesn't look like theirs. My purpose doesn't look like how
theirs is out working. Like, and instead focusing on, I have a unique purpose. It is unique to me.
It is unique to how I've been designed. It is unique to how I've been wired. It's unique to my
experiences and it's unique to the people and situations that I will impact. Um, and so instead
of worrying about, Oh, it doesn't look like other people's honing in on what does my purpose in
particular look like and how does that affect my workplace? How does that affect my schooling? How
does that affect my conversations and my relationships? How does that affect my drive
to work? Like literally all of the details. Um, and like, I think that's the biggest thing.
Um, and let that be the thing that kind of soaks into all of the areas of life.
That's good. Hope you guys were like, Sean said, I hope you're taking some notes.
I have to relist and go back the last 10 seconds, but, um, but, um,
so like we've talked a lot about, like, and you've said a lot about like how you struggle with
purpose where you, um, and how you were so like, like that you were like so like in tune that there
was purpose in your life from a young age. So, and from then to now, what have you discovered about
yourself? I, wow. Um, I have discovered, um, and it's interesting, and I think honestly, it speaks
to the audience that you're talking to is passionate people. Um, and that's like how I
would describe myself too. Um, but I think that one of the things that I've learned since then
is that it actually doesn't all fall on me. And that's really hard sometimes because I think
passionate people are also highly responsible people. And so, which is an amazing quality.
You want to take care of things. You want to take care of things. Well, you want to make an impact
on this world. And like, I tend to fall into the thinking of everyone thinks that way and not
everyone actually thinks that way. Like, so the fact that you have the self-awareness to say,
no, I want to leave a mark. I want to do something with my life that is a bigger, broader purpose.
I want to contribute. Like that speaks to your personality and your character. Um, and I just
think that, um, the thing that I needed to know is that I can take the pressure off of myself,
that it doesn't all land on me. That it's like, I have a part to play. Um, but I am not the whole
picture. And so, which is even like the fact that we all have unique individual purposes is because
I am not going to, I'm not going to be the person that finds a cure for cancer and preaches to
nations and raises children. And it does like, I, you know what, I may even do two or three things
at a time. I may do five things at a time throughout the span of my life. I make it to do a dozen things.
Um, but I'm not going to run the entire world. So like, that's just not how it works. And I
wouldn't want it to be that way either. Like I would not be, if I was put in charge of anything
mathematical, oh my goodness, the world is going down. And so it's like, we have different gifts.
We have different purposes on purpose. And so, um, I, I think that I have learned that it's,
it's a collaboration and that there is grace, that it's not a, you have failed or you have
succeeded at purpose. It is everything in life is purposeful. I have purpose and even the failures
have a purpose because even the failures I can read. I don't want to say I can rework
even the failures I believe are a part of the purpose. And like, I remember there was a time,
one of the first times I was speaking, um, publicly and it wasn't even like I was giving
a message or talking, it was literally giving announcements and I was terrified and my voice was
a little shaky and I was like, and I went off afterwards and I was like, I believe that. Why,
what was the purpose behind me doing that? Like why? Um, and I felt like I had this like
Holy Spirit niger, um, you know, for other people, whether you're a faith or not, like it might be
like, um, just the thought that you have after the thing. Um, but for me, I felt like it was
this conviction that was like, what if you went up there because people needed to see that you can
do things scared. And I think that kind of switched my perspective on, okay, like even the failure has
purpose. And there are times that people I, that inspire me, that I aspire to be like,
their mistakes have encouraged me as much as their success is. Um, because it means that we don't
have to be perfect. It means that there is grace. It means that we can fail one day and get back up
and keep going the next day. Um, and so I hope honestly in my life, as much as I want to be
purposeful and I want to leave an impact, um, part of that purpose is I want to leave behind a, a
grace, um, and a freedom to just not put the pressure on yourself on your purpose, um, and
just let your purpose happen as you live. Now that's again, really good. Um, China, you got
some more questions there. Um, unless you want to take one of these. All right. What is, uh,
God's purpose in your life? Okay. Heavy hitter. Um, yeah, I, I have tried to put it into words
multiple times and I feel like there is different, it's different ways of saying the same thing. Um,
but I, when I, when I think about it, I part of even why I feel like I have had purpose and like
had that passion since such a young age, um, is I have been extremely blessed to have a relationship
with God from a young age. Um, and I, I don't want to alienate anyone. That's not a believer that's
listening. Um, but just, I love honestly hearing other people's perspectives. And so I hope that,
um, it's cool to hear another perspective, even if it's not your own. Um, but I, it's, this question
is like specifically pertaining to God. And I love that you asked that. Um, I have always had this,
not even like, like, yes, head knowledge, but also I feel like relational knowledge. And I feel like
part of that is also how God's wired me. Like I see the whole world through relationships. Um,
I was talking to our friend Luke about this. My, the first filter I see the world through is through
people. And so we were talking about like, he has to see things through like right and wrong. And
I was like, my definition of right and wrong is basically based off of, does it positively or
negatively affect people? Like I can't separate my world from, like that's just how it's wired. Um,
and so I think that I, that started with, I also see my relationship with God that way. Um, and so
I feel like as long as I've had consciousness, basically, I've been aware that God is real and
that he talks to me, he loves me, and that we have this reciprocal relationship. I can talk to him,
he can talk to me. Um, and I feel like I see everywhere when people don't have that or when
they don't recognize that. And I'm like, I just want people to know, like, no, he cares about you.
And you can, I, one of my favorite things to tell people is like, you can ask God questions
because I feel like so often faith becomes like, well, if you have questions, you have doubts.
And that means you're not really a good creature or a good lever. And I absolutely hate that
because how do you build relationship? You ask questions. How are we having this fantastic
conversation? You're asking great questions. That's how we're, we're having a conversation.
That's how we're getting to know parts of each other better. And yet when it comes to God,
we're like, no, I can't ask questions because I'm doubting it. It's like, then how are you ever
going to get to know him any better? And so I, my prayer, especially lately has been just like, God,
like help me to reflect that relationship to other people and help me to just be a bridge that helps
them have a relationship with him, um, in a more personal way. And you know, head knowledge is
fantastic too. I love knowing and learning, like even what we're talking about, like I love merging
the practicals and, um, the knowledge with the emotions and the feeling and the spiritual, like
we are whole integrated beings. We are not just mind, body or soul. And so I love, um, combining
all of those things together and being like, no, with all of those things, um, we are purposeful
people with all of those things. I believe that God has given each of us purpose. Um, yeah. Did
that answer the question? I definitely think it answered the question. And I love that you said
that you can question God. I mean, I think if you can't question God, like you would, you would go
in life not knowing the answers and wish you would have. I mean, there's plenty of people in the
Bible who've questioned God and God was okay with that. Like Abraham, Abraham was one. He was like,
Hey, before Sodom and Gomorrah gets destroyed, uh, what if there's 50 good people? And God's like,
if there's 50, it's like, okay, he asked another question. What if there's 40 good people? You
know, and then he just get worked down the numbers and like God answered them every time. And then
he realized like, okay, God is not just good, but he's just, and he got the logic of that. And he
only got that by asking questions. And like, I mean, even the disciples asking Jesus questions,
like it wasn't like Jesus like, Hey, uh, how do we pray? Learn it yourself. Like, no, like God's not
like that. God's going to be like, okay, you need a question. You need, I'm going to meet, I'm here
for the answer. And some of the answers is yes. Sometimes it's no, sometimes it's wait. There's
different answers God gives us, but at the end of the day, God's going to answer us. Yeah.
That's good. I think there's, um, I think there's a lot of value in knowing, like, cause I couldn't
tell you how I go to a room. I haven't never thought about it. What do I think is the first
thing I walk in a room? What's my filter? Like, I don't know. But like, it's awesome that you know
that. And like, cause that, that like, knowing that like it allows you to walk into the room and
like, okay, I'm like, you're a self aware. It's like self aware. Like, like, okay, I know what I'm,
I know what I'm, I know what I'm getting into. I know when I'm walking to this room, I know like
where my thoughts are coming from. I know the lens I'm seeing it through. I know that lens I'm
seeing this through. And I only think I wrote down with it, what God's purpose for your life. I just
put relationships, um, because no, I, I, I know I just really like, I just really like that's what,
that's what you said. I would love to, uh, we're trying to get Luke on, but he's busy, but
no, I know that that's how you guys like end the pot. He's one of the people I was going to
recommend. I was like, he's probably too busy for it, but I'd recommend Luke. Um, man. Okay. So
I think we already covered your last question. I think we're ready to cover that one. Um,
so I think that's a good, kind of a good place to wrap it up. So, you know, at the end, we always
ask for resources. So like what, for the topic of purpose or the topic of personal growth,
development, um, what would you typically recommend to people? Yeah, I actually think that the,
this is like the perfect segue from what we were just talking about. Um, I really love like
personality assessments and things like that. And I feel like sometimes it can get a bad rep
because it's like, you're putting me into a box. Um, and so my, um, strategy is like, take as many
different ones as possible and pay attention to when you agree and when you disagree, because you
also know yourself and it's telling you something about what's happening. And so like I've had people
with, I love, um, the Enneagram is one, um, there's a free assessment. I think it's your
Enneagram coach.com. Um, and that tells you a lot of your motivations. And that's like where I
started to realize I was highly relational. It was like, Oh wait, other people don't see the world
that way. I thought everyone saw the world that way. Um, but I've had people who don't like take
that and they're like, it doesn't work for me because I don't, I don't relate to what they're
saying. And I think that knowledge is just as helpful. Like pay attention to the things that
don't. And be like, okay, that's not hitting. What's a better way of expressing that? What,
what does motivate me? Um, the Myers-Briggs is another one that's 16 personalities is free and
you're like able to take, and then, you know, there's also, we get into like paid resources and stuff,
but, um, I love the strength finders, the disc profile, like all just different things. But
what I really love is having taken multiple different assessments, putting them all together
and saying, what's the common thread through all of this. So I really recommend that. Um,
I also recommend journaling. Um, I don't know if it works necessarily for everyone. I also
would say journal in a way that works for you. It might be bullet points. It might be long
paragraphs. It might be once a month. It might, might be every day. Um, and I never used to journal
because it was so, I felt like it was so constricting. Um, and then when I let it work for me and how my
brain works, um, I have just, I feel like it's a very helpful tool to get what's inside out of you
to be able to assess it and then input it back in, in a way that's helpful. Um, but yeah,
no, I like the journal. I used to journal a lot and I did it only, I used to journal a lot,
but it was for a short amount of time. Um, and because then my condition kind of, uh, grew and
I was like, I can't write as long, but like the, um, but like I would write what I did. I was like,
I would either do it on my computer or I would do it first. Yeah. I started with my computer.
I would call them, I have a folder in my Google docs, so letters to God. I would just write a
letter to God about what I was like stressed about. Or like, I was just like, I want to work
out what's going on, what's going on. And then every night I, for a while I was, I would just
write, like, I would start always just saying thank you for all this stuff that happened during
that day. You guys kind of run through my whole day. Um, now it's more than now, like I want to
get back. I lost that habit. I want to get back into it. It's just, I lost it, but I want to get
back into it. And like one really great way I've learned from like atomic habits, reading that book
a while ago, um, one great way to start a habit is you don't, you don't go into it just like,
okay, I'm going to sit down and write a page every day. Like if you feel like that's too much,
okay, I'm going to write for two minutes. Yeah. I'm going to write for two minutes,
right before bed every day at the same time. And that allows you to, that allows you to start a
really quick, really helpful habit. That's that maybe one day that as you get used to it, you'll
continuously add more time to it. Just how the instinct, just how, oh, actually feel like I want
to write more today. Um, so yeah. Um, also the, and all the assessments, like I've been one of
those people, I'm like, I don't like them, but I feel like we talked about that before. Uh, but I'm
like, I never thought about it. I like, I've taken this, my dad had me, had me and my sisters take
disk assessments when we were kids, like we were, we are young and he was, cause like he went to like,
uh, it's a, what is it called? Nice to Columbus. Yeah. It's a, uh, it's a, uh, Roman Catholic
men's association. Okay. And he was like, well, we were at, he was at a conference, came back,
went about it. He was like, okay, I want you guys to take this. So he's like, okay, my, my,
okay. You're an, I was like an, uh, an IEC or something like that. And my dad's a high D,
I am like, uh, and so like, I was the only one I ever like, I've read like, so I'm like, okay,
that makes most sense to me. And it's like, there's so many, there's like, there's like, uh,
there's only four pieces. Yeah. I think Indian gram was like seven weeks, three, like three years ago.
And then I just don't know what that means anymore. But, uh, but that's a really good take. That's
really good though. Like you take multiple and find that common thread. Yeah. Um, no, I like that a
lot. That was really, that's awesome. Thank you for that. Absolutely. Yeah. I love, I love taking,
uh, personality tests personally. And he, I'm like, uh, protagonist. And then sometimes I get seven,
sometimes I get six on the end of the, uh, who would you like to have on the next episode?
Okay. Um, I did mention Luke already. I would love, I, he is, he is busy and I know like,
I want to, I applaud about him is he knows he's very purposeful. Yeah. He knows the things that
he's doing. Um, and so he knows if he can't give it the attention that deserves, he doesn't want
to put his hand towards it. So I think that's really powerful. That's me going on. I think I'm
down with one day. Yeah. Um, yeah. And, and when that, that comes, it's gonna be so great. Um,
I also, has Izzy been on the podcast? She hasn't yet. Okay. Izzy is our dear friend. She's amazing.
She literally designed the logo that's podcast on all the merch. Um, she has a wealth of wisdom.
So, um, I would also submit her, um, and then I don't know if you guys do this. I mean, we're
already like probably over time, but can I add one more thing? Okay. Um, cool. Um, why this is just,
I feel like the listeners are gonna find this really fun. Um, but I was paying attention to your
podcasts, like honestly, within like the last month and I was looking at it and I always thought it
was like really clever because it's technically short. And it's like, I know you do tech stuff
and you're not even sure. It's so cool. But then the first three letters are capitalized.
Is that because that's your Thomas, your initials? Yeah. Yeah. Mind. I think that is so smart. I
told Michaela that our friend and she went, I never knew that. So, um, I'm just, I'm just
letting the audience in on how smart we already thought that the title was smart, but it's even
more layered than we thought. Um, it's like purpose multiple layers. And you kind of keep your episode
length to like half an hour. It's like you break episodes involved. So it's also short. You guys
are geniuses. Um, okay. And then the last thing, um, but I want to give you guys some expectation
because you, um, do this for everyone that comes on. Um, and I just love you guys. So, um, please
don't cut this out. I think it's important. Um, but first off together as a, as a unit,
there are things that I see in both of you. Um, you guys have such pure hearts. Your intentions
are so kind, so beautiful and so not like self-seeking. Um, and you guys are both so
passionate about learning, growing and developing. You are not passive people. You are not stagnant
people. Um, you want to live life to the fullest and experience it to the most. And you want other
people to live it that way too. Um, and that's just everything that you guys do. Um, Thomas,
you are wildly smart, wildly compassionate. And I think sometimes you don't see those two things
in people at the same time. Um, and you hold this beautiful balance of seeing the world, I think in
a different way than a lot of people do. And then also making it accessible for people. Um, you
balance the practical and the emotional and you are brave and vulnerable in like this, just this
powerful way. Um, even at the fact you guys are, I think around like 30 episodes in, um, yeah,
I guess it is one thing to start something. It is another thing to keep going 30 episodes in. Um,
so there's a dedication and a commitment that is just like beautiful to see. I remember you talking
about your, um, business ventures like three years ago, and you talked about it with the same
passion and the same drive and the same desire for other people to get something out of it.
And now I'm like on your podcast and you're doing that exact thing. And it's like, so cool to see,
um, that dream come to fruition. And Sean, you, you are like the most life-giving person in any
room. Um, the best hugs, the best, like you are immensely kind. You also have such profound wisdom.
Um, and it's cool to see your growth too. And we've been in different small groups, classes,
conversations first, um, together for, yeah, actually it took me a minute to remember that.
Um, in, uh, over the years. And I think that I can see it and I, um, I feel like questions that we
talked about today are principles you brought up that a few years ago, you would have given the
true answer of like, I don't know, like God is good or like a, like a statement that is true,
but you have a new level now of explaining that depth and walking people to that place. That's
really beautiful. And I know like your heart is like future pastor Sean. Um, but the root word for
pastor is shepherd. And it's like to guide people. And I think like, it's really cool to see your
growth in that area. Um, and as well as I, we had a conversation recently that blew my mind. Um,
and I feel like it's beneficial to the audience. So I'm just going to spoiler and then say what
you said. Sorry. Um, but you said, um, you had a conversation with God and it was like the, um,
am I going to hold my calling above the collar? And you're like, okay, I'm, I want to pursue God
over the things that I want God to do in my life and the things that I believe, even the things I
believe he's told me in my life. Um, and you're like, that's the most important thing. And
whatever his will is, that's what I want to follow. And that is integrity. It is, it is hard to look
at something you're so passionate about and say, I don't have to do that thing because I would rather
pursue what God actually wants for me in my life. Um, and oftentimes I think those things do align.
And so I'm really excited, um, to see you just continue to grow in those things. So I've talked
for a long time, but I love you guys and thank you for having me on the podcast.
No, we love you, man. That was so beautiful. Like, uh, honestly that, that really was like,
I think God has always given you this annoying thing. They like just to give us like, uh, I
don't even know how to say it, like encouragement. That's the best way I can say it. Cause I don't,
I don't know another word to describe encouragement.
Yeah, I know what it is like to be on the other side now cause you saw I'm crying.
Um, thank you Meg. Yeah, really appreciate that. Um, but yeah, thank you for being on, um, guys,
thank you for listening to the episode of the podcast. If you haven't already give us a like,
five stars, just reveal. Yeah. And share it out on all your social medias. Um,
to be, we reach more people, we can reach more people and people can, um, more people can hear
the message that we've both bought today. All right, guys, talk to you later. Love you guys.