WEBVTT

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I've had someone throw up on me before from nerves.

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People thinking that I knew what I was doing

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was a challenge, or at least it still feels like

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a challenge. I think even now I've coached Erin

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to a pretty high level and I don't have a queue

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of other athletes at the door that are like,

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I have to work with you because you coach so

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well. It always feels like I've kind of been

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brushed off as not being that involved. Somebody

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questioned the fact that there was all -male

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coaches going to it. and the response that they

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got is there's no female coaches functioning

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at the level but when we're trying to do trainings

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and stuff we'll always make sure that there's

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at least one day of a training where it's just

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brutal and people get shut down welcome to another

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episode of the that's not real climbing podcast

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i'm your host Jinni and i'm excited to introduce

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my guest for today Rachel Carr Rachel is a Team

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GB coach and also Erin McNeice's personal coach.

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She started as an athlete and competed in youth

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worlds, but moved down the coaching path shortly

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after. In this episode, we'll talk about performance

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anxiety as an athlete, the difficulties she faced

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being taken seriously as a young female coach,

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and we'll get insight into Team GB's training

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as well as Erin's insanely huge team of coaches.

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I hope you enjoy this episode with Rachel. Thank

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you. Please pardon this brief intermission, but

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Now, back to the show. How are you doing today?

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Yeah, good. Had a kind of busy day, but managed

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to just get a climb in just now, so I'm feeling

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pretty chilled. You don't get much time to climb

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for yourself. Like, this time of year we get

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a fair bit, I guess, because... like the athletes

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are at the wall so if I'm training the athletes

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sometimes I can stay afterwards but it's like

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such a busy period just now like I'm going away

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next week and we've got British boulder champs

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this weekend so I'm not going to get to climb

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Saturday or Sunday um so it's like my last day

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because I'm super busy tomorrow so it's sometimes

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it's really inconsistent but sometimes we actually

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have loads of time it's just getting the consistency

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across multiple weeks is the challenge Yeah,

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that's kind of the important part of making improvements

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with climbing. Do you have to like prepare anything

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for the British bouldering champs? No, we kind

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of, so we have our events team, which is Zoe,

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who I think you've actually done an episode with.

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So she, because it's like a BMC run event, it's

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the national champs, like selection is only a

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small part of it. So she kind of organizes all

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of that. And then my part is I just show up on

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a coach on the day. But it's kind of like. even

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my role there is just in case anybody needs me

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or like helping run the day a little bit because

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I don't actually have really any athletes that

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need me anymore they either all work as other

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people as well so they can get coached by them

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um or they don't need my help really okay so

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that'll be kind of chill just like a fun event

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for you to watch I mean it's a long day it's

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like 9am till 9pm on Saturday I think so a lot

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of time in a bouldering wall because we'll have

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to stay to help it with everything and like be

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there from the start right up until it's finished

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So it'll probably be quite tiring, but I might

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be doing very little the whole day. You mentioned

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that you don't have too many athletes that you're

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coaching for anymore? Yeah, it's kind of the

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way that this setup works. Because I'm full -time

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with GB, I basically only coach GB athletes.

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I have one or two that I'll write training plans

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for or I'll do what I used to do some sessions

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with, but I'm so busy now that I don't have time

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to do sessions with them because I'm so involved

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in the GB side of things. I coach like a couple

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of people that are in the program like in receipt

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of funding but a lot of them have other coaches

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so they don't actually like need my help or they

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just don't want it for whatever reason they work

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with other people because there's Liam that's

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there as well so I mainly just coach Erin and

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then I do some sessions with like Emma Everards

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and then I do like team trainings with people

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but in terms of like on a weekly basis it's pretty

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limited I do a lot of like the behind the scenes

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stuff as part of my time okay so I guess for

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those who don't um know your backstory super

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well how did you get into climbing and then competing

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and then coaching um so I was a gymnast first

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I did gymnastics from like a young age but my

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mom's friend was really into adventure sports

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she did like paragliding and stuff and she took

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me climbing I think it was either for the first

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time or the second time because I'd done one

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of those like temporary walls that they had in

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like car parks I don't know if you've ever done

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that um but yeah wait did you do paragliding

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yeah she might like she was really into all of

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that extreme sportsy stuff yeah and the thing

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that she introduced me to I never got to do paragliding

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maybe I would have gotten to that um but yeah

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she took me climbing and because of gymnastics

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I was quite good at it straight away so got really

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psyched on it and was like oh I want to do this

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this is way more fun it's way less like rigid

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you don't have to be absolutely perfect you can

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just do it your way so then i it's good gymnastics

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pretty quick and i think it was like within the

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first year maybe i was like british champ or

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like shortly after having climbed for a year

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um it wasn't that many people competing at the

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time um and then was on the team like a year

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and a half after starting and competed until

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i was 19 on the youth circuit i did like i competed

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in lead boulder and speed technically but Not

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to any successful level in any of them, definitely

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not in speed. Why did you decide to stop competing?

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And how did you know it was time for you to move

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on to something else? I guess I was kind of lucky

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in that I wasn't good enough to transition to

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senior. So it was kind of decided for me. But

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I didn't realize I hadn't made the senior team.

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And I had the conversation with the coach, like,

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I don't think I want to keep competing because

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I just had loads of performance anxiety. It wasn't

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really understood at that time. Nobody turned

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around and said it was performance anxiety. It

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was only years later that I was like, oh, that's

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why I felt so miserable all the time. I felt

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like I was always underperforming in competitions,

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which I think a lot of athletes do. But the anxiety

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that I feel now felt very similar to what I was

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feeling every day at a competition and when I

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was on the mat. constantly like in my own head

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and thinking so many negative things I couldn't

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just get past it and like try hard on the boulders

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and it got to the point where I would finish

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a round and I wouldn't want to look at the results

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because I'd be like oh I actually think I climbed

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quite well there I'm really happy with that and

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then somebody else would come up and be like

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oh congrats you finished here and then I would

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just like spiral even though it would be a pretty

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okay result nothing terrible I would just like

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completely spiral and feel horrible afterwards

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and I was like I don't think this is worth it

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anymore. Interesting. I actually never heard

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that perspective before of like, yeah, what performance

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anxiety feels like. Now, as a coach, if you're

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thinking back about like what you would tell

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yourself at that time, is there anything you

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would have said to like help make it feel better?

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Yeah, I mean, it's kind of what's helped me in

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my coaching. I can actually empathize a lot more

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with most athletes because I think a lot of athletes

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do experience performance anxiety. It's so rare

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that people actually don't ever. have any of

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this at all because of course you're putting

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yourself out there you're like on a stage you

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have to perform consistently your results do

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matter because you are competing but it's how

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they matter and what they mean to you and I think

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the things that I would look back on now and

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I just wish that somebody had said here's where

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you really are like here's where you actually

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compare and how you should do because I always

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had this idea in my head of like being on the

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British team we were like a really small team

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we weren't expected to do really well. And then

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I would go out on the mat thinking, oh, if I

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can just do one boulder, that's quite good. But

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then other people would obviously do a lot more

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boulders or it would be very varied. And one

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or two athletes would perform really well, but

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the rest of us would be in the midfield. And

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it was this battle in my head of, we're a small

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nation. There's a few outliers talented, but

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generally we're not that good. Whereas if somebody

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had actually said to me, no, you're actually

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really good. We've picked you to go to these

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competitions because we think you can make a

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final and make a podium. So you have to aim for

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that. Then I might have actually gone out and

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believed that I could do that. Whereas I don't

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remember at any point thinking I can definitely

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make a final. I remember being disappointed when

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I didn't, but never actually believing that I

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could be in a final or be on a podium. Well,

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maybe this is like my bad mentality, but sometimes

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I'm just like, okay, I should just be like realistic.

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And maybe I'm like not really that good and it's

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fine. And that would like help me mentally. I

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mean, I was definitely the same. I was like,

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if I expect the worst and it goes well amazing

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and if it goes bad I expected it so I'm not going

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to be disappointed right I was always disappointed

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it didn't matter I was if anything more disappointed

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because it was like I was trying to trick myself

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into not expecting it and then just like in the

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back of my head I'd be like oh but today's probably

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going to be the day where like I'll I'll win

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right no never because I was never thinking that

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I could do it there was never that like outlying

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belief it was hope it wasn't like determination

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that actually was pushing me to try harder as

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much as i felt like i was trying really hard

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like if i didn't have the belief behind it how

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hard can i really be trying so you have to like

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yes there's some like there's some reality in

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it and it's the same with athletes now if i if

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i don't think that an athlete can at least get

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close to a final i'm not going to sit there and

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be like you're going to definitely make this

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final i'll have like a pretty constructive conversation

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with them about like what they should be aiming

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for and what they're capable of what they need

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to do to get there as well it's not just you

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can do it or you can't do it but I often try

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and say to other people and like it might have

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been helpful to me if somebody was saying like

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you struggle on these ones okay so just focus

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on this one thing and if you can do that then

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you can get this and then we'll get this one

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out of the way and you probably need to do xyz

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and that might get you this and if you can't

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do that that's okay we can go away and we can

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work on this and bring it back and it's more

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constructive it's more like tactical in the approach

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which I could have had that from coaches it just

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didn't it was never said in a way that stuck

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with me so I was always just like oh I'm talented

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but not good enough and I can do some boulders

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but I just can't do these ones and it was little

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things like when I would approach a downer I'd

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be looking at the mat rather than looking at

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the hold because I was like already thinking

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I wasn't going to do it like I don't know what

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I needed to be told in that moment but I wasn't

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being told it because I couldn't do it so. Okay.

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Now that's an interesting perspective because

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I have like a coach that I like sometimes work

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with and he'll say things about like what I could

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do. And I'm like, I think you're lying to me.

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I don't feel like I could do that. And I think

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you're just trying to say things so that I feel

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like I can do it when you know I can't do it.

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So it's interesting to hear you say that you

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wouldn't lie to an athlete about what they could

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do at least. Yeah, I mean, I'm also quite optimistic

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as well. So if I, I would never lie to them,

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but I know what the coaches might be like, but

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they've got no chance of doing that. So I'll

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just not say it. I don't think any coach would

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be like, you can't make a seven final World Cup.

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I think they would just say, just keep trying.

00:11:58.490 --> 00:12:01.009
Maybe next time I keep going. Whereas I'm always.

00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:03.620
the optimistic one in our team where if we're

00:12:03.620 --> 00:12:05.679
predicting results for next year i'll be like

00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:07.299
oh yeah i think this athlete can make a final

00:12:07.299 --> 00:12:09.159
consistently easily yeah they've got they've

00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:10.500
done this this year they'll definitely do it

00:12:10.500 --> 00:12:12.639
next year and people are like are you sure but

00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:15.620
like so far touch wood i've been fairly right

00:12:15.620 --> 00:12:22.580
um and like i'm a firm believer that if you don't

00:12:22.580 --> 00:12:25.620
actively like be positive to people then it's

00:12:25.620 --> 00:12:27.460
really hard for them to be positive to themselves

00:12:27.460 --> 00:12:31.399
like in the uk especially everybody's a bit too

00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:33.080
real all the time they're a bit too negative

00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:35.620
nobody wants to like run away with themselves

00:12:35.620 --> 00:12:38.759
and get excited and just be really like happy

00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:40.039
about everything because they're like oh it's

00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:44.100
not a happy calm down so I try and just say like

00:12:44.100 --> 00:12:47.000
a nice thing like a compliment or like pull out

00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:49.279
all the positive stuff some people have like

00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:51.279
said that I'm like toxically positive before

00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:53.320
because I'm not realistic I don't call stuff

00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:56.259
out but then it's equally if you were to ask

00:12:56.259 --> 00:12:58.440
Erin for example like she's joked about the fact

00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:01.809
that I'm just mean so it's like it depends on

00:13:01.809 --> 00:13:04.090
the context I'll try and if they've had a bad

00:13:04.090 --> 00:13:05.830
performance really draw on the positives because

00:13:05.830 --> 00:13:08.009
there's always positives to draw on it but then

00:13:08.009 --> 00:13:10.250
if there needs to be a harsh conversation I'll

00:13:10.250 --> 00:13:12.629
have that harsh conversation at the same time

00:13:12.629 --> 00:13:15.029
so it's like I try to get that balance so that

00:13:15.029 --> 00:13:17.049
they know if I'm saying something I do genuinely

00:13:17.049 --> 00:13:20.870
believe that that can be a possibility like if

00:13:20.870 --> 00:13:23.850
Erin's there like oh I can't possibly do this

00:13:23.850 --> 00:13:26.509
boulder and I don't think she can I'm like okay

00:13:26.509 --> 00:13:28.129
well let's focus on how we get you as far up

00:13:28.129 --> 00:13:30.529
as possible that's not saying you're going to

00:13:30.529 --> 00:13:32.429
do the boulder but maybe if you work on it you

00:13:32.429 --> 00:13:34.669
might break it down whereas if she can do it

00:13:34.669 --> 00:13:35.990
i'll be like are you joking obviously that one's

00:13:35.990 --> 00:13:37.889
easy for you like just just go and get on with

00:13:37.889 --> 00:13:39.850
it which is like maybe a bit mean to say it like

00:13:39.850 --> 00:13:43.269
that it's like positive it's really it's hard

00:13:43.269 --> 00:13:45.629
to read a lot of the time but it's hopefully

00:13:45.629 --> 00:13:49.889
genuine a lot okay good to know um so yeah we

00:13:49.889 --> 00:13:52.269
got derailed a bit but after you stopped competing

00:13:52.269 --> 00:13:54.470
yourself um how did you get into the coaching

00:13:54.470 --> 00:13:58.830
side So I kind of mentored younger athletes when

00:13:58.830 --> 00:14:01.629
I was still competing. So I think when I was

00:14:01.629 --> 00:14:04.610
16, there was like a local charity club that

00:14:04.610 --> 00:14:07.129
would go climbing. And my mom was basically like,

00:14:07.230 --> 00:14:09.250
come and help out, come and do some coaching

00:14:09.250 --> 00:14:11.129
or mentoring as a younger athlete. So I started

00:14:11.129 --> 00:14:15.529
it in that sense. And then was main team captain

00:14:15.529 --> 00:14:18.370
on my last year in the boulder team, which was

00:14:18.370 --> 00:14:20.549
basically like one of the older kids looking

00:14:20.549 --> 00:14:23.450
after younger kids. But in that, I kind of was

00:14:23.450 --> 00:14:26.000
coaching. like I would say it was definitely

00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:28.879
coaching now based on what I remember doing feedback

00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:31.200
wise and I remember some of the younger athletes

00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:32.700
were like crying and I was comforting them would

00:14:32.700 --> 00:14:34.120
be like go on try the boulder again and that

00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:36.980
that to me is coaching um and it just kind of

00:14:36.980 --> 00:14:39.379
like carried on that way I started working with

00:14:39.379 --> 00:14:41.039
a couple younger athletes and coaching them at

00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:44.320
like local competitions and then in like 2017

00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:46.399
I think I'd been out of the team for like a year

00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:49.519
and a half I got asked to come in I guess it

00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:53.419
was chaperoning youth worlds um but I was I felt

00:14:53.419 --> 00:14:54.799
like I was doing the role that I'm doing now

00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:56.539
in that sense. I was kind of coming back as a

00:14:56.539 --> 00:14:58.879
coach and got loads of really good feedback from

00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:00.200
the athletes where they were like, oh, that was

00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:02.700
great. Can we get her back again? And then got

00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:05.480
various roles that pushed me up from like youth

00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:08.120
team coach for like Scotland to then British

00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:11.620
team to then where I am now, basically. And do

00:15:11.620 --> 00:15:13.960
you also coach like the speed team or is that

00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:17.879
a totally different person? We kind of don't

00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:21.399
have a speed team coach. I definitely don't.

00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:23.779
coached them I have supported them at competitions

00:15:23.779 --> 00:15:26.179
I would never try and claim that I have coached

00:15:26.179 --> 00:15:27.820
them because they've got as far as they have

00:15:27.820 --> 00:15:29.879
on their own there's some really impressive like

00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:33.059
what they do but I have supported them at competitions

00:15:33.059 --> 00:15:36.120
and I technically did coach a speed team like

00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:39.700
a local speed team when I was like 19 but I'm

00:15:39.700 --> 00:15:41.559
definitely not a speed coach I don't know how

00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:45.399
to do that it's very different yeah with my skillset

00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:47.940
One of the Instagram questions that also come

00:15:47.940 --> 00:15:51.440
through kind of related to this from Lucky Penguin

00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:54.159
3. What's the difference between coaching the

00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:57.440
youth team versus the senior team? Well, coaching

00:15:57.440 --> 00:15:59.960
the youth team is kind of early development stages.

00:16:00.139 --> 00:16:03.559
So you have a lot of athletes, a lot of different

00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:05.700
ages, but also a lot of different stages and

00:16:05.700 --> 00:16:09.000
where they are at. So some of them might be really

00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:11.639
self -sufficient in a lot of ways already and

00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:13.440
have a really good understanding of what they

00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:15.700
need to do to perform. And you can kind of just

00:16:15.700 --> 00:16:18.039
leave them to it, be there if they need you.

00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:20.840
But a lot of the time, you're getting athletes

00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:22.799
that don't know how to warm up, don't know how

00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:25.100
to fuel for the session, don't know how to read

00:16:25.100 --> 00:16:28.019
boulders, are stressed a lot. There's a lot more

00:16:28.019 --> 00:16:30.679
tears and youth. I've had someone throw up on

00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:35.320
me before from nerves. Wait, oh my God. Was this

00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:39.159
like during a competition? Yeah, I'd feel for

00:16:39.159 --> 00:16:42.879
her because she got really stressed. And I was...

00:16:43.509 --> 00:16:45.870
i wasn't like 100 % believing her so it's my

00:16:45.870 --> 00:16:47.730
fault because i was like no no you're fine you're

00:16:47.730 --> 00:16:49.870
fine you're gonna just go it'll be all right

00:16:49.870 --> 00:16:52.049
oh you've thrown up on me not on me but like

00:16:52.049 --> 00:16:54.590
very close to me and i had to clean it up like

00:16:54.590 --> 00:16:57.250
mid -competition um and then she went out and

00:16:57.250 --> 00:16:58.809
she like did really well on the route and came

00:16:58.809 --> 00:17:00.169
back and was like okay i feel better now i was

00:17:00.169 --> 00:17:03.690
like how did you do that that was insane um it

00:17:03.690 --> 00:17:06.950
only happened once though but like there's there's

00:17:06.950 --> 00:17:09.400
obviously a lot of stress and it's exactly what

00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:11.839
i remember from competing so again i have a lot

00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:13.460
of empathy for them i have a lot of time for

00:17:13.460 --> 00:17:16.380
them i'll sit with them while they cry but sometimes

00:17:16.380 --> 00:17:18.420
it's like a harsh word sometimes it's just supportive

00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:20.500
so you're doing a lot of like emotional management

00:17:20.500 --> 00:17:24.559
but also kind of like herding cats and that you

00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:26.980
have to just check that everybody's like actually

00:17:26.980 --> 00:17:28.519
started growing up at the right time that they

00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:30.660
know what boulders are on that they have actually

00:17:30.660 --> 00:17:33.140
paid attention to like what sequence they're

00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:34.940
going to do for like the european format because

00:17:34.940 --> 00:17:37.259
it's that like flash format rather than on -site

00:17:38.089 --> 00:17:41.150
and it's a lot of like also hanging out with

00:17:41.150 --> 00:17:42.670
them entertaining them you have to take them

00:17:42.670 --> 00:17:45.250
around for like five days so i found youth comps

00:17:45.250 --> 00:17:49.890
exhausting like super super tiring um but it's

00:17:49.890 --> 00:17:51.089
obviously good training and then when you get

00:17:51.089 --> 00:17:54.670
to seniors in theory they've already had all

00:17:54.670 --> 00:17:56.609
that support and that learning so they should

00:17:56.609 --> 00:17:59.549
come to us and know their warm -up a bit better

00:17:59.549 --> 00:18:01.289
but obviously there's always things where you

00:18:01.289 --> 00:18:02.710
have to be like oh i think you should add this

00:18:02.710 --> 00:18:04.369
to your warm -up or stop doing this or maybe

00:18:04.369 --> 00:18:07.410
you should do this um or we're just like setting

00:18:07.410 --> 00:18:09.910
orders for them or sometimes it's just reminding

00:18:09.910 --> 00:18:11.809
them what time it is there's one athlete that

00:18:11.809 --> 00:18:13.690
my only job for them is to tell them what time

00:18:13.690 --> 00:18:17.009
it is constantly and just check where they're

00:18:17.009 --> 00:18:19.710
at give them updates bring good vibes play cards

00:18:19.710 --> 00:18:24.109
whatever it's very like they are very much more

00:18:24.109 --> 00:18:27.269
autonomous with it and we're adapting to the

00:18:27.269 --> 00:18:28.950
athlete needs whereas like the youth team you

00:18:28.950 --> 00:18:31.789
kind of have to be really proactive and assume

00:18:31.789 --> 00:18:33.369
that they don't know anything so that you can

00:18:33.369 --> 00:18:34.930
come in and just check that they do actually

00:18:34.930 --> 00:18:37.579
nothing Yeah, actually, I'm now realizing it

00:18:37.579 --> 00:18:39.799
seems like actually a lot more work to do youth

00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:42.460
than senior. Yeah, I remember my first World

00:18:42.460 --> 00:18:45.079
Cup, like I was obviously very scared because

00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:47.380
I was out front doing like the appeals and the

00:18:47.380 --> 00:18:49.559
filming on my own. So I was like, OK, if I mess

00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:51.839
this up, there's no one else here to to help

00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:53.819
me. And at the end of the day, they were like,

00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:55.359
oh, how was your first senior? I was like, oh,

00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:57.779
so much easier, so much easier than a youth comp.

00:18:57.920 --> 00:18:59.640
This is so chill. And they were like, what? Really?

00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:01.240
I was like, yeah, God, I don't have to like,

00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:04.210
nobody's cried. It's great. True. Yeah, so I

00:19:04.210 --> 00:19:06.349
guess the appeals process didn't stress you out?

00:19:06.430 --> 00:19:10.410
I know some coaches are very intense about their

00:19:10.410 --> 00:19:13.490
athletes and putting in appeals. Do you feel

00:19:13.490 --> 00:19:18.769
like that's your vibe? I flip between. I find

00:19:18.769 --> 00:19:22.970
it's quite fun. I think because I competed myself

00:19:22.970 --> 00:19:25.269
and I've never really left competitions, my understanding

00:19:25.269 --> 00:19:28.390
of the rules was pretty in -depth anyway. I didn't

00:19:28.390 --> 00:19:31.859
really have to... go through and like study the

00:19:31.859 --> 00:19:33.599
rules and memorize the numbers or anything I

00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:35.900
kind of just instinctively knew what was a rule

00:19:35.900 --> 00:19:40.019
and what wasn't and like I remember in the first

00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:42.059
comp that somebody topped and they didn't talk

00:19:42.059 --> 00:19:43.579
properly or they topped out of the time or something

00:19:43.579 --> 00:19:45.720
and I straight away just with total confidence

00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:47.220
wrote the appeal and handed it in and was like

00:19:47.220 --> 00:19:50.299
yeah great fine no questions like wasn't stressed

00:19:50.299 --> 00:19:53.819
and I was pretty comfortable that I could go

00:19:53.819 --> 00:19:56.940
up and I I kind of had a card to play if I was

00:19:56.940 --> 00:19:59.720
a young coach So I would just go, oh, can I just

00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:02.240
check what this is? I'm just not really sure.

00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:05.559
And I wasn't, so it was accurate. But then it

00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:07.819
would be a case of like, oh, no, let me check

00:20:07.819 --> 00:20:09.339
it or let me do this. And then I'll have to put

00:20:09.339 --> 00:20:12.180
an actual appeal in or something. So it can be

00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:16.319
like a tactful game, but generally it's viewed

00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:18.359
from my perspective anyway. You're just trying

00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:19.940
to actually make the competition fair because

00:20:19.940 --> 00:20:22.859
judges do make mistakes. We've seen some competitions

00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:25.400
like Madrid where the judges were very inexperienced.

00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:27.599
So there was a huge number of appeals that went

00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:29.619
in, but all of them got passed because actually

00:20:29.619 --> 00:20:32.559
it was just bad judging. So generally, that's

00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:33.839
the position that our coaches are coming from.

00:20:33.940 --> 00:20:36.539
But of course, when you're in a finals position

00:20:36.539 --> 00:20:39.180
or a podium or semifinals and you're trying to

00:20:39.180 --> 00:20:40.839
get your athlete through to the finals and you

00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:42.619
see something that's like, oh, that could definitely

00:20:42.619 --> 00:20:44.700
be taken away from them. I'm not sure that's

00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:47.940
100%. Get a bit competitive then and be like,

00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:49.799
oh, I'm going to go and get this one. And you

00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:53.359
also mentioned that you were like quite a young

00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:57.240
coach, I guess, when you first started. How old

00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:02.000
were you at the time? Oh, my God. Well, for seniors

00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:09.680
anyway, I was 24, I think. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's

00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:11.380
like the same age as a lot of the competitors.

00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:14.839
Yeah, so I was younger than... I think all of

00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:17.640
the athletes on the team were two at the first

00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:20.180
competition that I went to. I think there was

00:21:20.180 --> 00:21:22.460
like, was there 10 athletes? There was maybe

00:21:22.460 --> 00:21:24.059
10 athletes and only two of them were younger

00:21:24.059 --> 00:21:27.180
than me. So that was maybe three, but it was

00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:28.519
a very small number. There was a huge amount

00:21:28.519 --> 00:21:30.299
that were older than me and most of them I'd

00:21:30.299 --> 00:21:34.619
competed with when I was younger and they'd been

00:21:34.619 --> 00:21:36.700
more successful than me because they'd made it

00:21:36.700 --> 00:21:38.900
to seniors and World Cups and I'd dropped out.

00:21:38.980 --> 00:21:41.980
So it was an interesting dynamic to sort of manage

00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:44.660
initially. I guess like how do you command respect

00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:46.680
as a coach when you're coaching people who are

00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:49.420
like older than you or had like better results

00:21:49.420 --> 00:21:52.559
than you? I guess I was not in any way striving

00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:56.480
for respect. I was kind of just, I knew that

00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:59.039
I was never going to be able to come in and be

00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:01.279
this coach where I was like, I know more than

00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:03.019
you, you have to listen to me because I've done

00:22:03.019 --> 00:22:05.700
this for however many years. I didn't have that.

00:22:05.980 --> 00:22:08.759
And I didn't really want to take that angle anyway

00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:11.359
because I wasn't totally sure what I knew at

00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:15.700
that point. had coached a few athletes to a pretty

00:22:15.700 --> 00:22:17.339
high level of youth but I'd never coached an

00:22:17.339 --> 00:22:19.200
athlete to senior so I was never going to come

00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:20.940
in and assume that I knew how to make a world

00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:24.339
cup successful athlete at that point and my main

00:22:24.339 --> 00:22:27.299
aim was just to provide the support of the competitions

00:22:27.299 --> 00:22:29.420
that like their coaches couldn't provide because

00:22:29.420 --> 00:22:32.339
it's very rare that private coaches can go out

00:22:32.339 --> 00:22:34.099
to all of the world cups and attend all of those

00:22:34.099 --> 00:22:36.500
so in my in my head i was just being a team coach

00:22:36.500 --> 00:22:38.680
and supporting and that was slightly different

00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:41.319
i we did some like debriefs at the end of it

00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:42.880
where i would sort of say like hey i spotted

00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:44.299
this when you were climbing you might want to

00:22:44.299 --> 00:22:46.619
try and do this next time what do you think about

00:22:46.619 --> 00:22:48.700
that and so we're like no i'd be like yeah you're

00:22:48.700 --> 00:22:51.920
probably right okay great like i'll stop um but

00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:54.140
that was like the absolute extent of the coaching

00:22:54.140 --> 00:22:56.859
that i was doing for those athletes at the time

00:22:56.859 --> 00:22:58.559
it was only later on that i started actually

00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:01.990
coaching senior athletes and actually moved into

00:23:01.990 --> 00:23:04.309
that space and now I would kind of feed back

00:23:04.309 --> 00:23:07.269
a bit more but even then I don't think I like

00:23:07.269 --> 00:23:10.289
command respect from anybody I think I want them

00:23:10.289 --> 00:23:14.009
to respect my knowledge understanding but if

00:23:14.009 --> 00:23:15.589
somebody doesn't want my opinion I'm never going

00:23:15.589 --> 00:23:18.369
to force it on them because I don't 100 % know

00:23:18.369 --> 00:23:20.410
that I'm right I don't think anybody does know

00:23:20.410 --> 00:23:22.130
100 % that they're right so it's kind of just

00:23:22.130 --> 00:23:24.670
here's some ideas I've had if you're interested

00:23:24.670 --> 00:23:27.829
in them go away and explore them And if you want

00:23:27.829 --> 00:23:30.089
some stuff that I might think will help, then

00:23:30.089 --> 00:23:32.549
come back to me. And if not, then carry on. I

00:23:32.549 --> 00:23:34.569
didn't mean to say like command respect as in

00:23:34.569 --> 00:23:37.789
like you are trying to, I don't know, be like

00:23:37.789 --> 00:23:40.829
an authoritarian figure. But I guess I would

00:23:40.829 --> 00:23:45.029
think that like having a coach and being a coach,

00:23:45.170 --> 00:23:47.930
they would need to like trust you in some way

00:23:47.930 --> 00:23:51.049
to be able to help them improve. Otherwise, it

00:23:51.049 --> 00:23:53.490
just like doesn't really work in that way. Yeah,

00:23:53.490 --> 00:23:57.390
I mean, people. like thinking that I knew what

00:23:57.390 --> 00:24:00.230
I was doing was a challenge or at least it still

00:24:00.230 --> 00:24:03.049
feels like a challenge I think even now like

00:24:03.049 --> 00:24:05.890
I've coached Erin to a pretty high level and

00:24:05.890 --> 00:24:08.549
I don't have a queue of other athletes at the

00:24:08.549 --> 00:24:10.390
door that are like I have to work with you because

00:24:10.390 --> 00:24:14.289
you coach so well um and I definitely have got

00:24:14.289 --> 00:24:18.549
like male colleagues that have done like either

00:24:18.549 --> 00:24:21.400
the same amount or a little bit less or maybe

00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:22.619
they've done a little bit more but then they

00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:23.960
have like this queue of people that are like

00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:25.200
oh I have to work with you I have to work with

00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:27.799
you and there's of course reasons for that of

00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:29.539
like maybe they've got better knowledge or like

00:24:29.539 --> 00:24:31.619
S &C training it's all these things that factor

00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:33.740
into it and I can definitely rationalize those

00:24:33.740 --> 00:24:36.599
but it's hard not sometimes to think like it's

00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:39.640
because I'm younger or female that actually people

00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:43.119
just don't think I know things and still when

00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:44.559
I talk to some people they're like all right

00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:46.940
okay yeah yeah sure like when I say stuff to

00:24:46.940 --> 00:24:49.769
them whereas others are like take it on board

00:24:49.769 --> 00:24:52.630
fully so it's hard to it's hard to make that

00:24:52.630 --> 00:24:54.349
transition into the place that I am now where

00:24:54.349 --> 00:24:56.950
I can give feedback and people don't just roll

00:24:56.950 --> 00:24:58.849
their eyes or don't think anything of it or maybe

00:24:58.849 --> 00:25:01.190
that was internal for me that that was happening

00:25:01.190 --> 00:25:04.390
but it's still like an ongoing struggle and I

00:25:04.390 --> 00:25:06.609
think unless I was distinctly working with a

00:25:06.609 --> 00:25:08.490
group of athletes that were all improving all

00:25:08.490 --> 00:25:10.089
the time and I had all the time to give to them

00:25:10.089 --> 00:25:12.930
I don't think I'll ever get to the point of people

00:25:12.930 --> 00:25:14.730
would just be like yeah she's a coach that can

00:25:14.730 --> 00:25:16.470
coach everyone I think people still have this

00:25:16.470 --> 00:25:18.029
thing of like oh it's worked for one time but

00:25:18.029 --> 00:25:20.130
maybe that's just with that athlete but this

00:25:20.130 --> 00:25:23.170
could all be my insecurities in my head is that

00:25:23.170 --> 00:25:25.329
like something that you would want to prove like

00:25:25.329 --> 00:25:27.650
you would want to coach more individual athletes

00:25:27.650 --> 00:25:29.990
and show that it's something you can do there

00:25:29.990 --> 00:25:32.490
was definitely a point where I wanted that um

00:25:32.490 --> 00:25:36.250
I think before I started working with Erin I

00:25:36.250 --> 00:25:38.450
or maybe even like while I was working with Erin

00:25:38.450 --> 00:25:41.930
um a year ago there was a point of oh i wanted

00:25:41.930 --> 00:25:43.650
like i want to show people that i actually know

00:25:43.650 --> 00:25:45.369
what i'm talking about like i i'm understanding

00:25:45.369 --> 00:25:47.990
everything i'm not just hanging out with her

00:25:47.990 --> 00:25:50.970
on sessions like i am coaching i am like delivering

00:25:50.970 --> 00:25:52.589
part of the training plan i'm feeding back on

00:25:52.589 --> 00:25:54.490
the training plan i'm looking at the snc i'm

00:25:54.490 --> 00:25:56.569
like inputting on the nutrition i'm managing

00:25:56.569 --> 00:25:59.750
everything together like i wanted people to know

00:25:59.750 --> 00:26:02.670
that because i wanted to be like respected as

00:26:02.670 --> 00:26:04.970
one of the top coaches in the world because that's

00:26:04.970 --> 00:26:07.089
kind of like theoretically where i am with the

00:26:07.089 --> 00:26:10.509
results that i've got from the athletes um but

00:26:11.019 --> 00:26:13.660
as the time's gone on I've kind of got more comfortable

00:26:13.660 --> 00:26:16.980
with actually who am I proving that to what am

00:26:16.980 --> 00:26:18.940
I going to gain from it what's the point like

00:26:18.940 --> 00:26:21.940
as long as I know that I'm doing the best that

00:26:21.940 --> 00:26:24.819
I can do and I believe in what I'm delivering

00:26:24.819 --> 00:26:27.400
for the athletes that I can I'm not going to

00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:28.980
chase after other athletes I'm going to make

00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:30.660
myself accessible to all of them and if more

00:26:30.660 --> 00:26:32.339
people want to work with me that's great it would

00:26:32.339 --> 00:26:34.539
definitely fill me with a bit more confidence

00:26:34.539 --> 00:26:37.089
that people wanted that but If I am going to

00:26:37.089 --> 00:26:38.930
spend all my time chasing that and trying to

00:26:38.930 --> 00:26:40.569
prove myself, then I'm not actually going to

00:26:40.569 --> 00:26:42.650
be focusing on the right things. So I've tried

00:26:42.650 --> 00:26:46.009
to like take a step away from that. But there's

00:26:46.009 --> 00:26:48.109
definitely still times where I'm like, why does

00:26:48.109 --> 00:26:50.490
nobody want to work with me? Do you feel like

00:26:50.490 --> 00:26:54.630
at least like other coaches have that respect

00:26:54.630 --> 00:26:57.529
for you? Yeah, I mean, like my colleagues are

00:26:57.529 --> 00:27:00.730
really good. We're all we've been through like

00:27:00.730 --> 00:27:04.519
tough times in. the history of like the GB team

00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:07.680
and like different management and like we've

00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:10.559
like had it where everybody kind of was out to

00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:12.480
get us at times so we've all been really good

00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:14.359
at like building each other up and trying to

00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:17.359
have each other's backs and like me and my colleague

00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:19.099
will always sort of say like hey you did that

00:27:19.099 --> 00:27:21.099
when there's a good result that happened so like

00:27:21.099 --> 00:27:23.160
isn't it amazing that like we've achieved this

00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:25.400
like this is great and other people don't always

00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:26.940
see that they think that we're just like negative

00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:30.559
and like sarcastic all the time because externally

00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:32.279
we are but we do have our moments where we'll

00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:35.000
turn around and be like hey like good work very

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:36.480
few people in the world have achieved this like

00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:38.240
this is great and we kind of like pick each other

00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:40.680
up so definitely other people have respect but

00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:43.500
it's like how far does that go what are some

00:27:43.500 --> 00:27:46.200
of the difficulties you feel like you faced as

00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:50.140
a female coach um I mean it comes back to that

00:27:50.140 --> 00:27:52.039
sort of respect thing or people thinking that

00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:54.799
I'm as good a coach as my male colleague like

00:27:54.799 --> 00:27:58.339
I've had several interactions where people have

00:27:58.339 --> 00:28:00.410
kind of looked me up and down and sort of gone

00:28:00.410 --> 00:28:02.869
who are you and what are you doing in this space

00:28:02.869 --> 00:28:04.569
and whether that's like an age thing or whether

00:28:04.569 --> 00:28:08.710
it was um being a female I always feel like I've

00:28:08.710 --> 00:28:11.569
kind of been brushed off as not being that involved

00:28:11.569 --> 00:28:14.990
and again there's other factors into people building

00:28:14.990 --> 00:28:19.750
their opinion but I heard recently um to be part

00:28:19.750 --> 00:28:23.410
of like this conference thing somebody questioned

00:28:23.410 --> 00:28:24.970
the fact that there was all male coaches going

00:28:24.970 --> 00:28:27.599
to it and the response that they got is there's

00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:29.980
no female coaches functioning at the level which

00:28:29.980 --> 00:28:33.119
for me was like well it's not just me that's

00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:35.220
coaching at the elite level and climbing there's

00:28:35.220 --> 00:28:37.700
like a lot of us there's a lot of nations that

00:28:37.700 --> 00:28:40.880
are led by impressive female coaches that have

00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:44.079
been leading them for a long time so why does

00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:45.859
somebody think that these men are the only ones

00:28:45.859 --> 00:28:47.500
that are leading it like those men are great

00:28:47.500 --> 00:28:48.960
coaches they are definitely doing impressive

00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:51.380
things they definitely have a lot to say but

00:28:51.380 --> 00:28:53.650
there is also women that are out there and it

00:28:53.650 --> 00:28:55.349
should really be representative because it's

00:28:55.349 --> 00:28:57.109
not just the men in the pit or behind the wall

00:28:57.109 --> 00:29:00.509
but people still seem to think that it is and

00:29:00.509 --> 00:29:03.210
I don't know how you change that perspective

00:29:03.210 --> 00:29:06.769
and now I'm going to it because one of the male

00:29:06.769 --> 00:29:08.450
coaches was having a baby so that's great for

00:29:08.450 --> 00:29:10.630
him but he had to pull out last minute so now

00:29:10.630 --> 00:29:13.650
I'm going to speak at that but initially was

00:29:13.650 --> 00:29:17.089
not counted as one of being the good coaches

00:29:17.089 --> 00:29:19.500
at the time so it's interesting Yeah, that's

00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:24.019
interesting. Because there's also Katarina on

00:29:24.019 --> 00:29:26.960
the Austrian team. Yeah, Katarina. But there's

00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:30.579
so many other female coaches. I mean, for us

00:29:30.579 --> 00:29:33.839
in the UK, the majority of our department is

00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:36.039
female. So I have a female head of performance.

00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:38.160
There's me as a female podium coach. There's

00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:40.400
a female academy coach, and she's the only academy

00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:43.700
coach. In the youth space, the youth team is

00:29:43.700 --> 00:29:46.299
run by women. The talent team is run by women.

00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:51.109
We have a lot. in our yeah in our country so

00:29:51.109 --> 00:29:52.549
we're quite lucky in that sense but there are

00:29:52.549 --> 00:29:55.829
multiple other teams French team have them Belgian

00:29:55.829 --> 00:29:59.250
Austrian Germans lots of other teams work with

00:29:59.250 --> 00:30:00.750
women so I don't know why they thought that there

00:30:00.750 --> 00:30:04.009
was no women coaching at the level yeah I mean

00:30:04.009 --> 00:30:06.210
do you think it's like been harder for women

00:30:06.210 --> 00:30:09.630
to get into coaching or maybe like it's not something

00:30:09.630 --> 00:30:12.130
that they're as interested in pursuing there's

00:30:12.130 --> 00:30:16.089
definitely like a gap in I think in all sports

00:30:16.089 --> 00:30:19.069
not just in climbing for female coaches it's

00:30:19.069 --> 00:30:21.589
it is harder to get in because there's always

00:30:21.589 --> 00:30:24.430
going to be this argument of like men just want

00:30:24.430 --> 00:30:26.150
to work with men they work better with them in

00:30:26.150 --> 00:30:28.490
the same way that maybe female athletes would

00:30:28.490 --> 00:30:31.950
work better with women there's always that argument

00:30:31.950 --> 00:30:34.150
and if you're working towards a higher level

00:30:34.150 --> 00:30:36.809
then the general idea is that the men are better

00:30:36.809 --> 00:30:39.029
at delivering at that level they have a better

00:30:39.029 --> 00:30:42.069
understanding and I think climbing is a bit different

00:30:42.069 --> 00:30:46.349
because to understand how hard somebody else

00:30:46.349 --> 00:30:48.009
climbs just by looking at them that you don't

00:30:48.009 --> 00:30:50.069
need to be able to climb a certain grade to do

00:30:50.069 --> 00:30:52.650
that but I think historically that's kind of

00:30:52.650 --> 00:30:55.170
how it worked like it was historically ex -athletes

00:30:55.170 --> 00:30:58.250
that were coming in to to be the coaches and

00:30:58.250 --> 00:31:01.190
to teach other people and it's only in more recent

00:31:01.190 --> 00:31:04.470
years where it's less ex -athletes coming through

00:31:04.470 --> 00:31:06.730
and like even I'm counted in that but there are

00:31:06.730 --> 00:31:08.630
definitely coaches out there that were never

00:31:08.630 --> 00:31:12.099
an athlete they've just come in as a coach But

00:31:12.099 --> 00:31:14.319
yeah, I think in all sports you have that issue.

00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:17.180
And it tends to be that the women won't get up

00:31:17.180 --> 00:31:20.119
to like academy, like transition spaces. So they

00:31:20.119 --> 00:31:22.240
use the senior space. That's where they'll be

00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:24.420
placed because actually like women tend to be

00:31:24.420 --> 00:31:26.440
better at coaching those age groups because there's

00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:29.500
like puberty, emotions, like hormones everywhere.

00:31:29.660 --> 00:31:31.759
And women tend to be a bit more empathetic. So

00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:33.960
they thrive better in that space. But that then

00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:36.500
means that they're not pushed up into the senior

00:31:36.500 --> 00:31:38.779
space very often. And that's where all the men

00:31:38.779 --> 00:31:42.279
go because that's where they work better. it's

00:31:42.279 --> 00:31:44.660
kind of hard to to fight it but there's definitely

00:31:44.660 --> 00:31:47.220
like imbalances still yeah i guess kind of keeping

00:31:47.220 --> 00:31:50.039
that in mind um one of the questions that came

00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:53.059
in from with flow in mind was what advice would

00:31:53.059 --> 00:31:56.680
you give to aspiring female coaches um and i'm

00:31:56.680 --> 00:31:58.319
thinking just about people who are interested

00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:00.759
in becoming coaches in general especially in

00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:03.640
like the competition space yeah i mean the one

00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:06.619
thing that always stuck with me in terms of like

00:32:06.619 --> 00:32:08.700
being women come into this space is that sort

00:32:08.700 --> 00:32:11.180
of statistic about the fact that women won't

00:32:11.180 --> 00:32:13.740
go for jobs unless they have all of the requirements

00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:15.599
and men will go for a job where they have 50

00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:19.079
% and just having that in the back of your mind

00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:21.200
if you don't think that you are qualified enough

00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:23.880
or that you have enough experience go for it

00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:25.859
anyway and let somebody else decide like put

00:32:25.859 --> 00:32:27.779
yourself out there and give it a go and if somebody

00:32:27.779 --> 00:32:31.640
says that you're not good at it then go and work

00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:34.400
hard and get better at it don't just avoid it

00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:35.660
because you don't think you're capable of it

00:32:35.660 --> 00:32:39.079
I speak to so many female coaches that some of

00:32:39.079 --> 00:32:40.359
them have even said that they're going to walk

00:32:40.359 --> 00:32:42.099
away from their athletes because they don't think

00:32:42.099 --> 00:32:43.740
that they have what it takes to support them

00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:47.200
how do you know until you try like you can work

00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:50.299
with other people I would almost say like encourage

00:32:50.299 --> 00:32:51.960
them to work with other people I've worked with

00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:54.240
other coaches for a lot of my career and that's

00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:56.140
helped me to develop and just sense check my

00:32:56.140 --> 00:32:59.240
work but I've always had the understanding to

00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:00.839
get there because otherwise they would just be

00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:02.380
like dragging me along and that's not the case

00:33:02.380 --> 00:33:07.960
so Try and quieten the voices that say you don't

00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:10.079
have enough experience or enough knowledge. Put

00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:12.240
yourself out there in a way. Ask other people

00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:15.079
to support you in it. But you probably have the

00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:16.539
capabilities. You just need to give it a shot.

00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:19.220
Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And I guess that

00:33:19.220 --> 00:33:22.980
also kind of tracks with how you grew as a coach.

00:33:23.099 --> 00:33:25.339
Like you kind of filled a different role. Like

00:33:25.339 --> 00:33:27.720
when you were younger and you were coaching,

00:33:27.819 --> 00:33:31.059
you felt like you supported your athletes in

00:33:31.059 --> 00:33:33.180
a different way than the other coaches did. yeah

00:33:33.180 --> 00:33:36.599
it was it was always very relaxed I never did

00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:38.859
I don't know if it's actually really that different

00:33:38.859 --> 00:33:42.240
to what I do now I never did the full like just

00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.299
delivering the training plan like quite harsh

00:33:45.299 --> 00:33:47.119
get it get it done I don't think that's the nature

00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:50.079
of climbing anyway but I think I leaning into

00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:53.160
my style is what helped me to develop and grow

00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:55.690
because just almost naturally i've developed

00:33:55.690 --> 00:33:58.250
all the like knowledge i've i've kind of absorbed

00:33:58.250 --> 00:34:01.309
it by going on different courses and shadowing

00:34:01.309 --> 00:34:02.730
different people and working with different coaches

00:34:02.730 --> 00:34:05.130
i've learned from all of their knowledge and

00:34:05.130 --> 00:34:07.789
brought that into my own and if i'd gone straight

00:34:07.789 --> 00:34:09.670
in trying to do what i thought was the right

00:34:09.670 --> 00:34:12.809
way to do it it wouldn't have worked out whereas

00:34:12.809 --> 00:34:14.889
it's gone much better just kind of doing it my

00:34:14.889 --> 00:34:16.829
way figuring it out and adapting as i go and

00:34:16.829 --> 00:34:18.510
it's worked better for some of the athletes as

00:34:18.510 --> 00:34:21.369
well so you never know what's going to be right

00:34:21.369 --> 00:34:24.829
until it's already right yeah and I think now

00:34:24.829 --> 00:34:26.789
might be a good time to get into I guess like

00:34:26.789 --> 00:34:29.389
what coaching actually looks like I think for

00:34:29.389 --> 00:34:31.889
a lot of people it just kind of seems like oh

00:34:31.889 --> 00:34:33.949
you write a training plan maybe you like give

00:34:33.949 --> 00:34:35.889
some feedback on what they're doing on the wall

00:34:35.889 --> 00:34:38.449
but then you had mentioned like with coaching

00:34:38.449 --> 00:34:40.889
Aaron you also do like nutrition plans and like

00:34:40.889 --> 00:34:44.690
emotional support and things like that so what

00:34:44.690 --> 00:34:47.789
else all goes into it yeah I mean when you you

00:34:47.789 --> 00:34:50.820
have athletes like Aaron that are as advanced

00:34:50.820 --> 00:34:53.539
as they are in that sense like they're full -time

00:34:53.539 --> 00:34:56.400
training eight hours a day six days a week there's

00:34:56.400 --> 00:34:59.280
a lot more time to provide all this extra support

00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:02.380
so yes there's the aspects of we're just going

00:35:02.380 --> 00:35:04.400
to the wall maybe I'm belaying maybe I'm setting

00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:06.880
some boulders maybe I'm just there reminding

00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:08.760
her that she's actually capable of climbing when

00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:10.219
she falls off those boulders and thinks that

00:35:10.219 --> 00:35:13.320
she's rubbish like there's that sort of psychological

00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:16.340
support there but I would say that my role at

00:35:16.340 --> 00:35:18.559
least in that setup is sort of oversight of everything

00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:21.579
so I'm technically her team lead, and she has

00:35:21.579 --> 00:35:24.309
a team of coaches. Pardon this brief interruption,

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00:35:44.769 --> 00:35:47.010
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00:35:47.010 --> 00:35:49.829
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00:35:54.829 --> 00:35:57.409
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00:35:57.570 --> 00:36:00.030
commenting and sharing helps a great deal as

00:36:00.030 --> 00:36:03.489
well. Back to the show. So for her, coaching

00:36:03.489 --> 00:36:06.429
looks like a variety of different experts all

00:36:06.429 --> 00:36:09.550
leaning into their own areas. So we have a nutritionist

00:36:09.550 --> 00:36:11.409
who's on the job as nutrition. She's very good

00:36:11.409 --> 00:36:14.869
at what she does. She provides a nutrition plan

00:36:14.869 --> 00:36:17.110
and then I just kind of check in and go, hey,

00:36:17.130 --> 00:36:18.929
have you had that snack? Hey, have you done this?

00:36:18.949 --> 00:36:21.789
Hey, have you drank that water? And if it's...

00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:25.099
too much for like aaron to do then we go right

00:36:25.099 --> 00:36:26.900
okay we need to feed this back and we need to

00:36:26.900 --> 00:36:29.099
say that that part of the plan's not working

00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:32.219
we need to adapt it and i try to get aaron to

00:36:32.219 --> 00:36:34.039
do it as much as possible but it's quite stressful

00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:35.380
being an athlete there's quite a lot going on

00:36:35.380 --> 00:36:36.739
so sometimes i'll just be like don't worry i'll

00:36:36.739 --> 00:36:38.500
send the message i'll sorry for you we'll get

00:36:38.500 --> 00:36:41.619
this changed um and we have like physio that

00:36:41.619 --> 00:36:44.400
ideally she doesn't need to see that that often

00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:46.780
but obviously it's their sports masseuse for

00:36:46.780 --> 00:36:49.139
like maintenance there's snc coach there's her

00:36:49.139 --> 00:36:52.699
training plan coach um And then she has like

00:36:52.699 --> 00:36:54.739
a mindset coach as well as like some psych support.

00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:58.539
So she has like a whole team and as well as her

00:36:58.539 --> 00:37:00.699
family and her partner and everybody that she's

00:37:00.699 --> 00:37:02.679
got around her like externally is wider support.

00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:04.980
She's got like a whole team of different people

00:37:04.980 --> 00:37:07.780
that we all focus on the bits that we're best

00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:10.699
at. And there's obviously overlapping communication

00:37:10.699 --> 00:37:12.800
between everybody to kind of check in and go,

00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:15.380
does the S &C line up with the training, line

00:37:15.380 --> 00:37:17.199
up with the nutrition, line up with the resting?

00:37:17.460 --> 00:37:20.179
Is the massage at the right time? Is she in a

00:37:20.179 --> 00:37:22.000
good place psychologically? There's all of these

00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:25.500
considerations all the time, which she has to

00:37:25.500 --> 00:37:28.139
deal with. But ideally, we're trying to preempt

00:37:28.139 --> 00:37:30.559
and make sure that it's as easy for her as possible.

00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:32.059
She just has to show up and climb and leave.

00:37:32.500 --> 00:37:36.420
But yeah, I kind of oversee everything. I would

00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:38.559
say chat to her the most, feedback to everybody

00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:40.800
else, arrange team meetings to check in. So it's

00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:44.219
a whole, it's a bit more like manager -y than

00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:47.019
coach at times. Jeez, I did not realize that

00:37:47.019 --> 00:37:49.619
there was this whole team like going into this.

00:37:49.739 --> 00:37:53.059
That's kind of crazy. And I really wish that

00:37:53.059 --> 00:37:57.780
I had that. Yeah, I mean, it's grown a lot. So

00:37:57.780 --> 00:38:02.440
like even this time last year, we had two or

00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:05.320
three less people, I think. There was... initially

00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:09.099
it was just Erin her training plan coach that

00:38:09.099 --> 00:38:11.300
did her robot plan which was lattice and then

00:38:11.300 --> 00:38:14.559
I did some one -to -ones and then after like

00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:16.780
2023 she had a really tough season she felt really

00:38:16.780 --> 00:38:19.280
tired she wasn't happy with things we kind of

00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:21.920
completely mixed it up and did something new

00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:24.300
by at the time just bringing in an S &C coach

00:38:24.300 --> 00:38:26.960
and bringing in me more regularly and then that

00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:28.820
grow into okay we'll bring a nutritionist in

00:38:28.820 --> 00:38:30.619
we'll bring a psych in okay we'll bring physio

00:38:30.619 --> 00:38:32.300
in and then it's just kind of like grown and

00:38:32.300 --> 00:38:35.559
grown and it's just kind of you don't want to

00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:39.159
miss anything you don't want to like risk not

00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:41.380
trying to do something and all of them factor

00:38:41.380 --> 00:38:43.159
in together like if you train too hard and you

00:38:43.159 --> 00:38:45.480
don't feel enough then you're going to get injured

00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:47.099
if you train too hard and you don't get the recovery

00:38:47.099 --> 00:38:49.000
mass you're going to get injured if you don't

00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:51.099
train hard enough because snc is not there to

00:38:51.099 --> 00:38:53.260
do these extra little bits that you could do

00:38:53.260 --> 00:38:55.340
when your skin's too thin then you're not going

00:38:55.340 --> 00:38:58.039
to be as strong as possible so it's trying to

00:38:58.039 --> 00:38:59.920
like consider every possibility and make sure

00:38:59.920 --> 00:39:02.199
that we address it do you still do like the one

00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:05.719
-on -ones yeah so i see our own like um sometimes

00:39:05.719 --> 00:39:08.719
like three times a week um it's kind of the same

00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:11.460
offer that's like my gb role so like any athlete

00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:15.380
that's on the the program and is like one of

00:39:15.380 --> 00:39:17.260
the funded athletes then they can technically

00:39:17.260 --> 00:39:19.000
like come to us and get as much coaching time

00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:21.139
as they as we can fit in a week so it's generally

00:39:21.139 --> 00:39:24.780
like three days um but i was in in sprinkler

00:39:24.780 --> 00:39:27.519
for 10 days at the start of the year and then

00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:29.039
we have like a training camp with a bunch of

00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:31.760
the athletes coming at the end of um january

00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:34.059
so There's quite a lot of contact time because

00:39:34.059 --> 00:39:36.119
like when we're in comp season, I obviously see

00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:37.900
them every day and there's a lot of feedback

00:39:37.900 --> 00:39:39.980
loop there. But yeah, generally with Aaron, it's

00:39:39.980 --> 00:39:42.059
like three days a week at least. Yeah, what are

00:39:42.059 --> 00:39:44.199
the one -on -one sessions kind of look like?

00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:46.219
Not necessarily just for Aaron, but for like

00:39:46.219 --> 00:39:49.079
anyone else on the GB team. I mean, it kind of

00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:50.800
varies depending on what they're doing. So sometimes

00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:54.699
it's just pointing circuits and kind of... like

00:39:54.699 --> 00:39:56.579
cheering them on to try harder telling them to

00:39:56.579 --> 00:39:59.360
rest that sort of thing sometimes it's like making

00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:01.480
up cool boulders and like funky moves to try

00:40:01.480 --> 00:40:03.239
and challenge them if we've not got the setting

00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:06.460
in the wall sometimes it's like facilitating

00:40:06.460 --> 00:40:09.360
a comp sim for them or like doing feedback on

00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:14.159
preset boulder sort of thing um and i guess like

00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:18.280
some days are just belaying non -stop just constantly

00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:20.280
my end of a rope like okay this one next okay

00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:22.360
this one next okay this one next and those ones

00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:24.679
are maybe the more tiring ones but necessary

00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:27.739
obviously interesting to know um yeah i guess

00:40:27.739 --> 00:40:30.679
in general in terms of like uh team gb training

00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:33.559
what's what are your thoughts for like split

00:40:33.559 --> 00:40:36.980
of strength training versus on the wall training

00:40:36.980 --> 00:40:40.000
versus board climbing or whatever other training

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:42.940
methods there are out there i guess it's so different

00:40:42.940 --> 00:40:46.670
for everybody but generally i think the most

00:40:46.670 --> 00:40:49.730
important thing is kind of keeping track of what

00:40:49.730 --> 00:40:52.429
they need like if if somebody's naturally quite

00:40:52.429 --> 00:40:55.429
strong probably less strength training either

00:40:55.429 --> 00:40:57.349
make it your super strength and lean into it

00:40:57.349 --> 00:41:00.090
do the do the board sessions whatever or focus

00:41:00.090 --> 00:41:01.670
on the technical stuff and drop it back a bit

00:41:01.670 --> 00:41:05.210
um but then it can be like a huge psychological

00:41:05.210 --> 00:41:08.119
impact on that so if somebody mentally struggles

00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:10.760
with all the technical stuff the failing of going

00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:12.659
and doing the technical side of things then they

00:41:12.659 --> 00:41:14.219
probably need a board session to go and feel

00:41:14.219 --> 00:41:16.599
good or they probably need to get in the gym

00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:18.519
and just straight forward pick up some weights

00:41:18.519 --> 00:41:20.059
you can't get it wrong you can either pick them

00:41:20.059 --> 00:41:21.400
up or you can't pick them up it's nice and simple

00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:23.940
so you might need to do that equally you might

00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:26.920
have an athlete that's really technically talented

00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:30.679
and you want to get there stronger trying to

00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:32.480
get the balance of them getting stronger without

00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:35.309
losing the natural talent and technique is quite

00:41:35.309 --> 00:41:37.150
hard so you probably have to make sure that there's

00:41:37.150 --> 00:41:40.809
like at least one or two sessions probably like

00:41:40.809 --> 00:41:44.170
three or four sessions a week that at least start

00:41:44.170 --> 00:41:46.750
with a fully technical execution thing then playing

00:41:46.750 --> 00:41:51.010
around really free flow like just having a go

00:41:51.010 --> 00:41:53.030
at some moves and seeing what they can do and

00:41:53.030 --> 00:41:55.570
then only the rest of the time like maybe the

00:41:55.570 --> 00:41:57.849
other two or three sessions maybe like mixing

00:41:57.849 --> 00:41:59.449
it in so you've got a bit of both ideally you

00:41:59.449 --> 00:42:01.929
want to be hammering that sort of like physical

00:42:01.929 --> 00:42:04.170
side of things and It obviously changes as you

00:42:04.170 --> 00:42:05.489
go through the year as well. There's so many

00:42:05.489 --> 00:42:07.829
considerations. At the start of off -season,

00:42:08.030 --> 00:42:10.949
so November, December, January, you might want

00:42:10.949 --> 00:42:14.730
to do a huge gym block and just get bulky, get

00:42:14.730 --> 00:42:18.309
strong, get that base muscle there so that you

00:42:18.309 --> 00:42:20.510
can then transfer it by getting onto the wall

00:42:20.510 --> 00:42:22.590
and doing the really focused stuff later because

00:42:22.590 --> 00:42:25.090
it's so much easier and simpler. You're less

00:42:25.090 --> 00:42:26.670
likely to get injured. You can really build a

00:42:26.670 --> 00:42:29.030
base in all these areas and then you can transform

00:42:29.030 --> 00:42:32.500
it. But some people really... they don't like

00:42:32.500 --> 00:42:34.019
that they don't respond to that it stresses them

00:42:34.019 --> 00:42:37.079
out so it's hard because you have to like adapt

00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:40.320
it to to every athlete and some some rules stick

00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:42.780
of like obviously don't do too much but some

00:42:42.780 --> 00:42:44.880
of them you have to really adapt to with where

00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:48.539
they're at would you say that it's better to

00:42:48.539 --> 00:42:51.980
kind of like lean into a strength or for comps

00:42:51.980 --> 00:42:53.980
is it better to try to be like an all -rounder

00:42:53.980 --> 00:42:56.400
i mean if you're being objective of a competition

00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:58.699
athlete you should probably be an all -rounder

00:42:58.699 --> 00:43:01.300
like you're You can probably get through rounds

00:43:01.300 --> 00:43:03.659
having strengths, but if you want to win, if

00:43:03.659 --> 00:43:05.780
you want to get a medal, you need to be prepared

00:43:05.780 --> 00:43:08.699
for whatever is going to be on the wall. And

00:43:08.699 --> 00:43:11.780
some people's strengths, like you see some French

00:43:11.780 --> 00:43:13.360
athletes who are amazing at coordination and

00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:16.179
then you get some competitions where it's really

00:43:16.179 --> 00:43:17.920
coordination heavy, it fares really well for

00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:20.480
them. They're also pretty strong as well. They're

00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:23.980
also really good at slabs. But they'll have some

00:43:23.980 --> 00:43:26.320
comps where it is slightly easier for them because

00:43:26.320 --> 00:43:28.579
it's their style, whereas... you might have some

00:43:28.579 --> 00:43:30.579
comps that are really physical or like really

00:43:30.579 --> 00:43:33.260
grovelly and if you're only good at coordination

00:43:33.260 --> 00:43:35.039
then you're not going to get anywhere in that

00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:37.199
comp so it's kind of what are you aiming for

00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:39.619
you're aiming for one one -off performance where

00:43:39.619 --> 00:43:41.380
you might have your day and it's your boulders

00:43:41.380 --> 00:43:43.800
and it goes well okay great probably lean into

00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:46.320
your strengths then but if you want to be a successful

00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:49.139
comp athlete over a long period of time you need

00:43:49.139 --> 00:43:51.719
to be good at every style basically yeah when

00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:54.679
i think to like erin it's like hard for me to

00:43:55.150 --> 00:43:58.230
put a finger on like what her strengths and weaknesses

00:43:58.230 --> 00:44:00.469
would be it's like kind of just an all -rounder

00:44:00.469 --> 00:44:03.969
yeah i mean she she's pretty good at doing everything

00:44:03.969 --> 00:44:06.130
she definitely has weaknesses because we definitely

00:44:06.130 --> 00:44:09.329
have stuff that we work on but people get really

00:44:09.329 --> 00:44:11.230
confused by her like people have said that she's

00:44:11.230 --> 00:44:13.309
not very technical she's not good in the slab

00:44:13.309 --> 00:44:16.090
but then her stats from the season actually have

00:44:16.090 --> 00:44:20.090
really high slab performances um and it's really

00:44:20.090 --> 00:44:22.070
neat she's actually did really bad at like no

00:44:22.070 --> 00:44:25.840
thumbs squeezing okay like it's a wide that basically

00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:29.139
world champs qualifier exposed her massively

00:44:29.139 --> 00:44:32.159
she like qualified really low because the third

00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:34.900
boulder was a straightforward like flat squeeze

00:44:34.900 --> 00:44:38.219
boulder and that's somehow still a weakness we

00:44:38.219 --> 00:44:39.780
work on every year but i think she just like

00:44:39.780 --> 00:44:42.940
struggles on it um but that's really quite rare

00:44:42.940 --> 00:44:44.519
so it doesn't come up that much so it's generally

00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:47.659
it's hard because you have to like push up the

00:44:47.659 --> 00:44:50.079
whole level you can't just like okay you're really

00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:51.559
strong so we need to get your slabs up it's like

00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:54.199
okay everything's pretty good but if you want

00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:56.159
to like keep winning then we need to like push

00:44:56.159 --> 00:45:00.579
up everything so yeah it's uh it's hard to get

00:45:00.579 --> 00:45:02.199
it all up there and be like okay there's one

00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:04.400
weakness that comes up every three comps or even

00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:05.840
every six comps we gotta make sure that this

00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:08.420
is coming up as well yeah that's super specific

00:45:08.420 --> 00:45:10.940
i mean did you just like set a bunch of boulders

00:45:10.940 --> 00:45:14.619
with like no thumb squeezing i mean we tried

00:45:14.619 --> 00:45:18.019
we don't we don't really have much like free

00:45:18.019 --> 00:45:20.039
reign on setting in the uk we kind of have to

00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:22.340
work on commercial gyms quite a lot so it's a

00:45:22.340 --> 00:45:25.559
lot of work on spray walls and i kind of went

00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:27.980
to her snc coach and was like what do you think

00:45:27.980 --> 00:45:30.360
we could do with this and they were a bit like

00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:31.800
there's not really exercises that train that

00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:34.260
i'm like yeah but can we can we come up with

00:45:34.260 --> 00:45:36.639
some and now she has these like bizarre exercises

00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:38.519
even when she's doing them she's like i'm not

00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:41.420
really sure what this is for but then afterwards

00:45:41.420 --> 00:45:44.469
she's fully like oh yeah no all of the muscles

00:45:44.469 --> 00:45:46.070
that hurt from compression are hurting right

00:45:46.070 --> 00:45:48.449
now so i'm kind of like well done tom like you've

00:45:48.449 --> 00:45:51.690
done a good job right good to hear um do you

00:45:51.690 --> 00:45:54.090
think there's anything that's like the most underrated

00:45:54.090 --> 00:45:57.030
training technique for climbing it's so hard

00:45:57.030 --> 00:45:59.849
because like every nation does it differently

00:45:59.849 --> 00:46:03.590
and i think like a general rule is just going

00:46:03.590 --> 00:46:07.190
to do more boulders or more routes like more

00:46:07.190 --> 00:46:10.090
time on task is always gonna do better but i

00:46:10.090 --> 00:46:12.670
guess like the quality of the time is is key

00:46:12.670 --> 00:46:16.369
as well um i think board climbing really benefits

00:46:16.369 --> 00:46:18.210
us a lot like the fact that our guys can get

00:46:18.210 --> 00:46:19.949
on a woody board and just go and grind out and

00:46:19.949 --> 00:46:21.969
like do their strength training and get that

00:46:21.969 --> 00:46:24.730
done um and they're pretty open to snc as well

00:46:24.730 --> 00:46:27.489
so like that base building stuff like we're a

00:46:27.489 --> 00:46:30.829
pretty strong nation now um in that sense like

00:46:30.829 --> 00:46:33.130
physically so i think that's one thing that that

00:46:33.130 --> 00:46:36.090
helps us but equally like some of our guys fingerboard

00:46:36.090 --> 00:46:38.889
some of them don't it's hard to tell if that

00:46:38.889 --> 00:46:42.590
helps like some of them spend more time on set

00:46:42.590 --> 00:46:44.409
boulders than they do on spray wall and that

00:46:44.409 --> 00:46:48.170
benefits them so I think until we're like much

00:46:48.170 --> 00:46:50.809
further on as a whole sport with a lot more like

00:46:50.809 --> 00:46:53.110
studies behind things it's so hard to say like

00:46:53.110 --> 00:46:55.309
yeah this thing will make you really really good

00:46:55.309 --> 00:46:57.789
because each athlete is like totally different

00:46:57.789 --> 00:46:59.630
like some of them can do one armors some of them

00:46:59.630 --> 00:47:02.329
can have a one arm edge like some of them can't

00:47:02.329 --> 00:47:04.110
do it at all and yet they're still they're crushing

00:47:04.110 --> 00:47:07.039
it so Yeah, I guess that's true. Is there anything

00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:10.420
that you feel like is an overrated training technique

00:47:10.420 --> 00:47:16.300
then? I mean, if it makes the athlete feel good,

00:47:16.420 --> 00:47:19.699
then it can't be overrated. If an athlete's doing

00:47:19.699 --> 00:47:22.079
something and a coach turns around and says,

00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:23.960
that's not giving you anything, but the athlete

00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:27.219
believes that it's doing something, then it's

00:47:27.219 --> 00:47:30.059
probably doing something. It may be... could

00:47:30.059 --> 00:47:32.000
be slightly better time -wise it could be better

00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:33.360
to use the time but there's always that thing

00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:36.000
of like placebo effects of as long as there's

00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:38.519
belief in the program and you're seeing some

00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:40.000
improvements that it's got to be doing something

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:42.059
if you're hammering an exercise for six weeks

00:47:42.059 --> 00:47:43.900
and nothing's getting better then you should

00:47:43.900 --> 00:47:45.159
probably change it but i don't think there's

00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:49.920
anything like nothing stands out like maybe old

00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:52.860
-fashioned campus boarding that's maybe not as

00:47:52.860 --> 00:47:58.539
useful There was a drip. Sorry. That's overrated.

00:47:58.780 --> 00:48:01.099
No, no, no. I think it's more like what does

00:48:01.099 --> 00:48:04.920
it bring at this point for comp climbing? If

00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:07.980
you can get on a spray wall on campus, then better

00:48:07.980 --> 00:48:10.639
grip type, better movement, like you're getting

00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:13.380
a full range. It's more appropriate than doing

00:48:13.380 --> 00:48:16.159
straightforward campus boarding. But if you want

00:48:16.159 --> 00:48:18.679
to just improve like fire and a range that's

00:48:18.679 --> 00:48:21.539
like that set, then it's useful. So it's what

00:48:21.539 --> 00:48:25.239
does that individual need to work on? And I don't

00:48:25.239 --> 00:48:28.239
think anything would be potentially too overhyped.

00:48:28.300 --> 00:48:30.219
There's always going to be hype exercises. There's

00:48:30.219 --> 00:48:35.420
the cuffs, the cuff blood circulation. They're

00:48:35.420 --> 00:48:38.579
really hype for a bit, but there's always going

00:48:38.579 --> 00:48:39.940
to be little things like that. But I actually

00:48:39.940 --> 00:48:43.119
don't think that many of the athletes at our

00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:44.619
level or the coaches at our level are actually

00:48:44.619 --> 00:48:47.320
getting too caught up in them. But I'm sure other

00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:49.900
people would think of things. Are people using

00:48:49.900 --> 00:48:53.599
the blood circulation cuffs for climbing? there

00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:57.659
was a stage in at least in Sheffield when I first

00:48:57.659 --> 00:49:00.199
moved down here it was maybe like in 2018 or

00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:02.940
2019 where I went into the wall and there was

00:49:02.940 --> 00:49:05.280
like three people that were doing like pickups

00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:07.860
and they were doing like seven on three off pickups

00:49:07.860 --> 00:49:11.800
with the cuffs and they were like I swear by

00:49:11.800 --> 00:49:14.340
it it's incredible my recovery my capacity has

00:49:14.340 --> 00:49:16.860
gone up so much or it was probably just the fact

00:49:16.860 --> 00:49:18.559
that they were doing seven on three off for the

00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:20.639
first time in ages but They were like swearing

00:49:20.639 --> 00:49:22.059
by it. And I'm sure there was like studies that

00:49:22.059 --> 00:49:24.679
didn't back up, but that was like a hype phase

00:49:24.679 --> 00:49:27.900
for sure. Huh. Okay. Interesting. I'm just, I'm

00:49:27.900 --> 00:49:30.199
also thinking about the old fashioned campus

00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:32.119
boarding. I feel like I do a lot of that. So

00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:34.019
maybe I need to, maybe I need to switch that

00:49:34.019 --> 00:49:35.900
up. I mean, it's great for cover. If you can

00:49:35.900 --> 00:49:39.639
like actually go in campus boulders, then it's

00:49:39.639 --> 00:49:41.539
like the first stepping stone to go in campus

00:49:41.539 --> 00:49:46.139
boulders. But then if you want to do wider moves

00:49:46.139 --> 00:49:49.250
or vary the hole type. then you could just get

00:49:49.250 --> 00:49:50.849
on boulders but then it's so hard because like

00:49:50.849 --> 00:49:52.869
how many walls actually have the perfect angle

00:49:52.869 --> 00:49:55.170
to campus on that also have appropriate boulders

00:49:55.170 --> 00:49:59.110
set on it like it's a tool for making the most

00:49:59.110 --> 00:50:01.550
of a situation it's not a tool that you should

00:50:01.550 --> 00:50:04.250
spend all your time on that's the main thing

00:50:04.250 --> 00:50:06.510
well i also like just kind of feel like a douche

00:50:06.510 --> 00:50:09.429
if i go into the gym and like campus boulders

00:50:09.429 --> 00:50:11.409
there's also that you could go in campus like

00:50:11.409 --> 00:50:12.969
a project that someone's on and then they'll

00:50:12.969 --> 00:50:17.449
never like how your ego will cope with that situation.

00:50:18.010 --> 00:50:20.409
Yeah, but it's very well makes sense. What are

00:50:20.409 --> 00:50:25.389
your own climbing goals? So I've bouldered 8a

00:50:25.389 --> 00:50:29.829
before and loosely have that goal again. I would

00:50:29.829 --> 00:50:34.110
like to at least get close to that. I feel like

00:50:34.110 --> 00:50:36.530
I'm close every year, but I am slowly coming

00:50:36.530 --> 00:50:38.449
around to the fact that my training is super

00:50:38.449 --> 00:50:42.079
inconsistent mid -season. The last two years

00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:44.480
I've had finger injuries either just before the

00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:46.460
season or just after the season because of the

00:50:46.460 --> 00:50:50.840
inconsistency. And I can still fairly regularly

00:50:50.840 --> 00:50:54.980
boulder 70, 70 plus. So like my main aim right

00:50:54.980 --> 00:50:57.619
now is just maintaining that. But like maybe

00:50:57.619 --> 00:50:59.900
a little bit of me is pushing to try and find

00:50:59.900 --> 00:51:02.579
an 80 that I can like have a good go at. Something

00:51:02.579 --> 00:51:04.639
that's at least close to try and train for. But

00:51:04.639 --> 00:51:06.599
I think I have to like reality check myself.

00:51:06.739 --> 00:51:08.219
I'm like, okay, well, I don't really have time

00:51:08.219 --> 00:51:09.880
to train. I'm not going to be disappointed if

00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:12.199
I... keep pushing for this and it's never going

00:51:12.199 --> 00:51:15.219
to be a reality so it's kind of maintaining i've

00:51:15.219 --> 00:51:16.780
actually just like got into running as something

00:51:16.780 --> 00:51:18.400
that's not climbing that i can do when i'm at

00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:21.099
the comps and try and push on that instead do

00:51:21.099 --> 00:51:24.260
you have any interest in like the dynamic indoor

00:51:24.260 --> 00:51:26.800
style of setting these days or is that not for

00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:30.619
you i actually like i really enjoy them um i

00:51:30.619 --> 00:51:33.500
sucked at them when i was competing and i still

00:51:33.500 --> 00:51:35.480
so very much suck at them now but when they have

00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:37.659
like the nice easy versions that they set for

00:51:37.659 --> 00:51:40.809
the customers i love those favorite um because

00:51:40.809 --> 00:51:42.349
it's always like i find it really interesting

00:51:42.349 --> 00:51:45.070
those movements like biomechanics the way that

00:51:45.070 --> 00:51:46.869
the like physics of the movements work the way

00:51:46.869 --> 00:51:49.230
that you generate all that stuff i find really

00:51:49.230 --> 00:51:52.570
interesting to coach and it's one of the things

00:51:52.570 --> 00:51:54.570
i kind of lean into so i always find it interesting

00:51:54.570 --> 00:51:56.610
when i look at a boulder and i'm like cool i

00:51:56.610 --> 00:51:58.670
understand what i need to do on this and then

00:51:58.670 --> 00:52:00.949
my body just completely fails to do it and i

00:52:00.949 --> 00:52:02.989
have to go right let me just take a step back

00:52:02.989 --> 00:52:05.289
and like build up to it but it always just feels

00:52:05.289 --> 00:52:07.250
so satisfying when you do like a cool coordination

00:52:07.250 --> 00:52:09.670
move people that say they don't like them just

00:52:09.670 --> 00:52:11.130
aren't very good at them and are too scared to

00:52:11.130 --> 00:52:13.309
try them and I definitely sometimes are too scared

00:52:13.309 --> 00:52:15.429
to try them but when I when I get on a good one

00:52:15.429 --> 00:52:17.429
and I manage to do like the easy ones I'm like

00:52:17.429 --> 00:52:19.690
yeah sick that was cool. Do you feel like you

00:52:19.690 --> 00:52:23.369
have a better understanding of how to do that

00:52:23.369 --> 00:52:25.469
kind of movement compared to your athletes or

00:52:25.469 --> 00:52:29.170
do you think that the athletes would have a better

00:52:29.170 --> 00:52:31.789
understanding of it compared to you? I would

00:52:31.789 --> 00:52:35.230
say that they have a better understanding but

00:52:35.230 --> 00:52:38.329
I also think that my understanding is quite hi

00:52:38.329 --> 00:52:41.510
we've had this debate actually I pissed a lot

00:52:41.510 --> 00:52:45.570
of people off in a warm up because it was like

00:52:45.570 --> 00:52:48.329
this theory of like if you were to put my brain

00:52:48.329 --> 00:52:52.710
into an athlete's body would I be able to do

00:52:52.710 --> 00:52:54.409
the moves and do the boulders and I was like

00:52:54.409 --> 00:52:58.309
oh well yeah I think because like I'm not just

00:52:58.309 --> 00:53:00.869
like looking at people doing the moves like I

00:53:00.869 --> 00:53:03.650
said I am trying to do these moves and I'm it

00:53:03.650 --> 00:53:06.849
would take me longer but I would in theory be

00:53:06.849 --> 00:53:08.929
able to use their muscles and understandings

00:53:08.929 --> 00:53:10.610
and stuff that way and it piss people off and

00:53:10.610 --> 00:53:12.369
so sometimes I'm like was that right was that

00:53:12.369 --> 00:53:14.110
not right but I kind of stuck by it like no I've

00:53:14.110 --> 00:53:15.429
been doing this for a long time like I've watched

00:53:15.429 --> 00:53:17.650
a lot of world cups I've been on the mats and

00:53:17.650 --> 00:53:19.389
I've not just seen that one athlete do the movement

00:53:19.389 --> 00:53:21.829
I've seen all of the athletes and the first 20

00:53:21.829 --> 00:53:25.030
people come and do this movement so like I understand

00:53:25.030 --> 00:53:28.449
the differences and like I have to to be able

00:53:28.449 --> 00:53:30.909
to teach those athletes how to do those things

00:53:30.909 --> 00:53:32.570
so I have to have some sort of understanding

00:53:32.570 --> 00:53:36.369
but I don't think that I have more than them

00:53:36.369 --> 00:53:37.909
because definitely they rock up and sometimes

00:53:37.909 --> 00:53:39.489
she's doing it like oh okay i don't think you

00:53:39.489 --> 00:53:42.449
would do it that way so true yeah there's gotta

00:53:42.449 --> 00:53:43.969
be something that they've got over me otherwise

00:53:43.969 --> 00:53:46.650
surely if i just trained hard enough i'd be on

00:53:46.650 --> 00:53:49.750
the mats too yeah yeah yeah i think seeing like

00:53:49.750 --> 00:53:51.969
a bunch of people on the mats doing a bunch of

00:53:51.969 --> 00:53:53.590
different ways and then seeing what actually

00:53:53.590 --> 00:53:55.489
ended up working that probably helps a bunch

00:53:55.489 --> 00:53:59.190
so in terms of i guess like what's next for you

00:53:59.190 --> 00:54:02.030
i mean you're still a super young coach you've

00:54:02.030 --> 00:54:04.769
already coached at the olympics Like, what do

00:54:04.769 --> 00:54:07.349
you imagine would even be next? Like, is there

00:54:07.349 --> 00:54:11.230
any higher achievement than that? Yeah, I mean,

00:54:11.269 --> 00:54:14.789
I mean, I guess I could just go like, oh, sweet,

00:54:14.849 --> 00:54:16.949
I've done it. Ticked it. Coached an athlete to

00:54:16.949 --> 00:54:19.329
a gold medal, won the overall, coached at the

00:54:19.329 --> 00:54:22.829
Olympics. But I think the way that I've done

00:54:22.829 --> 00:54:25.110
those things, like, could always have been better.

00:54:25.329 --> 00:54:29.289
So my aim is to sort of continually develop what

00:54:29.289 --> 00:54:32.449
I do. So I want to go to the Olympics and...

00:54:33.009 --> 00:54:36.989
be like a head coach eventually um i want to

00:54:36.989 --> 00:54:38.489
see how many olympics i can get to because i

00:54:38.489 --> 00:54:40.030
always find it really cool when i speak to like

00:54:40.030 --> 00:54:41.550
other coaches in the uk and they're like yeah

00:54:41.550 --> 00:54:43.769
i've done 10 games and i'm just like wow true

00:54:43.769 --> 00:54:46.670
many um i'm not sure i want to do that many but

00:54:46.670 --> 00:54:49.250
i would like to do more than just the one especially

00:54:49.250 --> 00:54:51.869
because like the one for me i was like the last

00:54:51.869 --> 00:54:54.469
coach to go in i was kind of like it was like

00:54:54.469 --> 00:54:57.070
three four weeks five weeks before that i got

00:54:57.070 --> 00:55:01.070
told um oh wow whirlwinds and it was cool that

00:55:01.070 --> 00:55:03.079
i was there but there was just like a kind of

00:55:03.079 --> 00:55:05.019
bitter taste to it of like oh well I wasn't the

00:55:05.019 --> 00:55:07.500
first pick or whatever so I'd like to be just

00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:09.780
one of the Olympic coaches that's going out and

00:55:09.780 --> 00:55:12.420
that's what you do and have supported the athletes

00:55:12.420 --> 00:55:14.639
to that point and not just kind of like swooping

00:55:14.639 --> 00:55:17.460
in maybe like not having supported them as much

00:55:17.460 --> 00:55:18.920
as I could have even though I feel like I supported

00:55:18.920 --> 00:55:22.980
a lot of the last guys a lot but yeah I'd just

00:55:22.980 --> 00:55:24.940
like to do it again and like do it really well

00:55:24.940 --> 00:55:29.599
and eventually like be a head coach for GB and

00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:33.210
kind of like I'm okay not doing the hands -on

00:55:33.210 --> 00:55:34.829
coaching stuff that much I'm definitely better

00:55:34.829 --> 00:55:40.329
at like leadership and and management and admin

00:55:40.329 --> 00:55:43.730
I can do all the admin stuff which some other

00:55:43.730 --> 00:55:45.449
people don't want to do they just want to do

00:55:45.449 --> 00:55:47.469
the hands -on coaching stuff so like maybe it'd

00:55:47.469 --> 00:55:50.070
be better if I moved into to that sort of things

00:55:50.070 --> 00:55:51.730
to let the people that really want to do the

00:55:51.730 --> 00:55:53.550
hands -on coaching and nothing else just do that

00:55:53.550 --> 00:55:55.650
and I can go and do the other bits because I

00:55:55.650 --> 00:55:58.869
find that like equally rewarding um but I just

00:55:58.869 --> 00:56:02.260
want to coach for a good amount of time and like

00:56:02.260 --> 00:56:04.980
be happy with how I've coached as well there's

00:56:04.980 --> 00:56:06.940
definitely been bits which I could have done

00:56:06.940 --> 00:56:08.739
better over the last few years so I'd like to

00:56:08.739 --> 00:56:11.340
get to the point where there's less things I

00:56:11.340 --> 00:56:12.739
could have done better there's always gonna be

00:56:12.739 --> 00:56:15.159
something but trying to do it as well as possible

00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:18.119
yeah does GB have like a head coach right now

00:56:18.119 --> 00:56:22.199
or because yeah like after Tom left yeah so he

00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:24.400
we basically had all the financial struggles

00:56:24.400 --> 00:56:27.320
um oh so we have a head of performance right

00:56:27.320 --> 00:56:30.880
now um And then we have myself and Liam that

00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:34.039
are the podium coaches. And we don't have enough

00:56:34.039 --> 00:56:36.119
money to have a head coach. That kind of moves

00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:38.159
into one of the audience questions, which I guess

00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:40.519
I can... I guess I'll just ask that one now.

00:56:41.260 --> 00:56:44.480
So one of the audience questions was, why is

00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:47.579
GB climbing funding so bad? Is it getting any

00:56:47.579 --> 00:56:50.619
better? I believe at some point the coaches had

00:56:50.619 --> 00:56:53.139
to either self -fund or be funded by athletes

00:56:53.139 --> 00:56:55.840
or couldn't go to comps. So how was your experience

00:56:55.840 --> 00:56:57.760
with that? I think it was a bit of an accidental

00:56:57.760 --> 00:57:01.699
deficit in the last cycle. There was basically

00:57:01.699 --> 00:57:06.579
just an overspend. there were some messes made

00:57:06.579 --> 00:57:08.820
in the budget that meant that we spent more money

00:57:08.820 --> 00:57:11.500
than we had which is why at the end of the Olympic

00:57:11.500 --> 00:57:14.659
year the coaches had to be paid for by the athletes

00:57:14.659 --> 00:57:16.039
because we didn't have any money to send them

00:57:16.039 --> 00:57:17.679
to the competitions but we still very much wanted

00:57:17.679 --> 00:57:19.880
to support the athletes so it was offered to

00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:22.420
them if you want GB coaches to go we have the

00:57:22.420 --> 00:57:24.619
time we'll go could you just contribute to it

00:57:24.619 --> 00:57:28.460
and we did some crowdfunding but we didn't like

00:57:28.460 --> 00:57:30.139
say that they had to pay for us to go like if

00:57:30.139 --> 00:57:31.519
they couldn't afford it that was obviously fine.

00:57:32.110 --> 00:57:35.250
um but it was just like a mistake basically we

00:57:35.250 --> 00:57:38.210
don't know exactly what happened i'm sure some

00:57:38.210 --> 00:57:39.750
people do know what happened but we don't know

00:57:39.750 --> 00:57:43.349
what happened um and it was just like misbudgeted

00:57:43.349 --> 00:57:47.550
whereas now we like at the start of this cycle

00:57:47.550 --> 00:57:51.110
technically had less than the cycle before um

00:57:51.110 --> 00:57:53.530
or at least it seemed that way because we'd spent

00:57:53.530 --> 00:57:56.980
more money than we had um but now The athletes

00:57:56.980 --> 00:57:58.739
basically are to thank for this. They've done

00:57:58.739 --> 00:58:02.219
really, really well. And now UK Sport have recognised

00:58:02.219 --> 00:58:04.719
that we're actually quite a good sport. We've

00:58:04.719 --> 00:58:06.980
done a fairly good job to support athletes into

00:58:06.980 --> 00:58:09.860
medal winning performances, into transition to

00:58:09.860 --> 00:58:14.659
senior. They basically are looking at a team

00:58:14.659 --> 00:58:16.800
of successful athletes rather than one or two.

00:58:16.960 --> 00:58:19.480
And thankfully, all of our guys have done really,

00:58:19.559 --> 00:58:20.980
really well. They've pulled out some amazing

00:58:20.980 --> 00:58:23.869
performances in the last couple of years. like

00:58:23.869 --> 00:58:25.610
it's i think it is getting better i think we

00:58:25.610 --> 00:58:30.590
are getting a bit more like structured in it

00:58:30.590 --> 00:58:33.610
i guess or like stable in the financial side

00:58:33.610 --> 00:58:36.289
of things because we should be able to equally

00:58:36.289 --> 00:58:38.449
support all the competitions um and send coaches

00:58:38.449 --> 00:58:41.090
to it and not make the same mistakes again hopefully

00:58:41.090 --> 00:58:43.690
but it was basically yeah it was just a it was

00:58:43.690 --> 00:58:46.010
a mistake and we are not making it again at all

00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:48.519
Okay. Yeah, let's do another audience question.

00:58:48.699 --> 00:58:51.960
So Team GB is super strong at the moment. How

00:58:51.960 --> 00:58:54.739
has that impacted competitiveness and camaraderie

00:58:54.739 --> 00:58:57.340
amongst the athletes? I think our team's actually,

00:58:57.480 --> 00:59:00.619
like, they're pretty good. They all get on for

00:59:00.619 --> 00:59:02.480
the most part. There's always going to be, like,

00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:04.039
personal relationships. People are going to get

00:59:04.039 --> 00:59:05.679
on better with other people. But actually, like,

00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:09.039
I think all of our guys are super supportive.

00:59:10.119 --> 00:59:15.070
I think there's... like a lot of people pushing

00:59:15.070 --> 00:59:17.210
on each other like a lot of our guys especially

00:59:17.210 --> 00:59:20.449
are training together a lot of the time and like

00:59:20.449 --> 00:59:22.110
learning from each other pushing each other training

00:59:22.110 --> 00:59:24.610
together and it's pretty consistent like it's

00:59:24.610 --> 00:59:27.070
a little bit different for some others because

00:59:27.070 --> 00:59:29.469
they live in different places or especially like

00:59:29.469 --> 00:59:31.469
for Erin for example she's doing boulder and

00:59:31.469 --> 00:59:34.170
lead there's very few athletes that are actually

00:59:34.170 --> 00:59:37.989
training leads at the like world cup level in

00:59:37.989 --> 00:59:40.650
the UK and training boulder so it's hard to align

00:59:40.650 --> 00:59:43.829
the schedules and like where they go and train

00:59:43.829 --> 00:59:45.369
their leader, where they don't on certain days.

00:59:45.449 --> 00:59:49.070
So there's challenges in that sense of they might

00:59:49.070 --> 00:59:51.289
not interact that much in the offseason, but

00:59:51.289 --> 00:59:53.090
generally when they come together, there's a

00:59:53.090 --> 00:59:56.429
pretty good team environment on the whole. But

00:59:56.429 --> 00:59:58.670
like I said, there's always going to be some

00:59:58.670 --> 01:00:00.969
people that don't get on. I mean, is there any

01:00:00.969 --> 01:00:03.630
more stress dealing with maybe getting spots

01:00:03.630 --> 01:00:07.690
for World Cups? I guess like even thinking ahead

01:00:07.690 --> 01:00:11.750
to future olympic spots yeah I mean it was definitely

01:00:11.750 --> 01:00:14.630
I think quite stressful for a lot of them but

01:00:14.630 --> 01:00:17.170
we we have like a pre -selection system which

01:00:17.170 --> 01:00:19.969
for all of our guys that are like on program

01:00:19.969 --> 01:00:22.429
if they achieved certain results last year they

01:00:22.429 --> 01:00:23.949
basically get pre -selected for world cup this

01:00:23.949 --> 01:00:27.369
year so for those guys they're kind of safe they

01:00:27.369 --> 01:00:29.369
don't have to worry about it because we wanted

01:00:29.369 --> 01:00:31.010
them to be able to like train as hard as possible

01:00:31.010 --> 01:00:32.670
and not have to worry about it peaking because

01:00:32.670 --> 01:00:34.769
our comps like now but the first world cups in

01:00:34.769 --> 01:00:37.300
may or june like it just makes it a little bit

01:00:37.300 --> 01:00:38.699
easier because we're kind of stoppers when we

01:00:38.699 --> 01:00:42.519
can do those things but that does leave I think

01:00:42.519 --> 01:00:48.159
it's one older World Cup space in the men's I

01:00:48.159 --> 01:00:49.960
think it's really not that much and then it's

01:00:49.960 --> 01:00:52.219
not not a huge amount in the women's when it

01:00:52.219 --> 01:00:54.179
comes into World Cups because there's a lot of

01:00:54.179 --> 01:00:56.960
our guys like fighting for those spaces and especially

01:00:56.960 --> 01:00:58.820
for lead I think there's only like three or four

01:00:58.820 --> 01:01:04.280
that are like spaces for men and women I can't

01:01:04.280 --> 01:01:05.820
remember off the top of my head but those are

01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:09.639
a lot more competitive and it's always tough

01:01:09.639 --> 01:01:11.780
for us we've always had like a fairly competitive

01:01:11.780 --> 01:01:14.039
nation but it's definitely got a lot more tense

01:01:14.039 --> 01:01:16.679
at british champs and stuff which is why we've

01:01:16.679 --> 01:01:18.400
like moved towards a different like selection

01:01:18.400 --> 01:01:20.840
thing so it's just nice and easy you leave the

01:01:20.840 --> 01:01:22.219
competition you know that you're selected or

01:01:22.219 --> 01:01:23.840
you're not but you have to be in i think like

01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:26.139
top five or top three a lot of the time so it's

01:01:26.139 --> 01:01:29.119
quite tough okay so i guess at least for the

01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:31.000
people who are already in the world cup circuit

01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:33.579
they don't have to think about competing against

01:01:33.579 --> 01:01:37.420
each other in terms of like team GB it's more

01:01:37.420 --> 01:01:40.000
just like this is your overall performance that

01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:42.119
helps them get selected yeah and I think that

01:01:42.119 --> 01:01:44.559
helps as well with like the environment of the

01:01:44.559 --> 01:01:47.440
competitions um because previously it was like

01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:49.579
if you weren't pre -selected you had to show

01:01:49.579 --> 01:01:51.739
up at this competition where everybody's watching

01:01:51.739 --> 01:01:53.139
you like you're the one to beat makes it really

01:01:53.139 --> 01:01:56.699
hard um whereas now it's like okay well they're

01:01:56.699 --> 01:01:58.699
not they're literally not your competition they

01:01:58.699 --> 01:02:00.739
are just there to they still have to compete

01:02:00.739 --> 01:02:05.239
um but it's sort of like I can't remember why

01:02:05.239 --> 01:02:07.039
exactly is we have to compete I think it's basically

01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:09.679
to demonstrate the standard and like if like

01:02:09.679 --> 01:02:13.679
stuff people say like aim for because I guess

01:02:13.679 --> 01:02:16.019
if it was like none of them competed the numbers

01:02:16.019 --> 01:02:18.179
would be a lot smaller it'd be a lot harder to

01:02:18.179 --> 01:02:21.780
to know the performance gap I guess between the

01:02:21.780 --> 01:02:24.599
guys that are just qualifying on their own and

01:02:24.599 --> 01:02:26.639
the ones that have already pre -qualified so

01:02:26.639 --> 01:02:29.780
it's a good like training tool I guess but it

01:02:29.780 --> 01:02:31.840
also just like completely removes it and it means

01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:34.159
that like people like Toby and Aaron and Emma

01:02:34.159 --> 01:02:36.480
and Diane like they're going and they're competing

01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:38.440
alongside people that probably idolize them quite

01:02:38.440 --> 01:02:40.519
a lot and that's quite cool in itself as well

01:02:40.519 --> 01:02:44.420
yeah um like Max Milne always going and trying

01:02:44.420 --> 01:02:46.980
to win British Boulder Champs is so so cool every

01:02:46.980 --> 01:02:49.159
year and like I think that he would choose to

01:02:49.159 --> 01:02:51.019
compete anyway but it's great to have that sort

01:02:51.019 --> 01:02:53.900
of like national fight as well like they're the

01:02:53.900 --> 01:02:55.980
title is equally as important to them as like

01:02:55.980 --> 01:02:57.659
a world cup title maybe not equally but like

01:02:57.659 --> 01:03:00.599
it's an important title to them um yeah So that's

01:03:00.599 --> 01:03:02.300
cool too, but it does obviously remove the stress

01:03:02.300 --> 01:03:04.960
of everybody else doesn't have to see them as

01:03:04.960 --> 01:03:07.460
competition in the sense of selection. It's just

01:03:07.460 --> 01:03:10.599
really actual competition. Okay. What are some

01:03:10.599 --> 01:03:12.800
of the ways you've coached the GB athletes on

01:03:12.800 --> 01:03:15.519
the mental side of competition? Yeah, so I guess

01:03:15.519 --> 01:03:19.519
like on the whole as a team, we try to make sure

01:03:19.519 --> 01:03:22.440
that we set harder than the World Cups in the

01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:24.400
UK as much as possible, which is challenging

01:03:24.400 --> 01:03:27.210
because we don't get stuff set that hard. um

01:03:27.210 --> 01:03:29.289
but when we're trying to do trainings and stuff

01:03:29.289 --> 01:03:30.690
we'll always make sure that there's at least

01:03:30.690 --> 01:03:32.409
one day of a training where it's just brutal

01:03:32.409 --> 01:03:35.190
and people get shut down kind of as a psychological

01:03:35.190 --> 01:03:38.250
thing to if they can do it there then when they

01:03:38.250 --> 01:03:40.369
go to the world cups it's easy um interesting

01:03:40.369 --> 01:03:43.929
but also like removing the simulation aspects

01:03:43.929 --> 01:03:46.190
because for some of them they they hate the simulation

01:03:46.190 --> 01:03:48.030
like it's they can't get in the right mindset

01:03:48.030 --> 01:03:49.610
for it so it's just stressful it's not helpful

01:03:49.610 --> 01:03:53.530
um so we're quite flexible with that and that's

01:03:53.530 --> 01:03:55.940
mainly to athlete requests but it's again they're

01:03:55.940 --> 01:03:58.360
still going and trying hard boulders and doing

01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:00.260
harder moves and even if they can't do them they're

01:04:00.260 --> 01:04:01.860
learning a lot from that so then when they go

01:04:01.860 --> 01:04:03.659
to a world cup boulder and it's like hopefully

01:04:03.659 --> 01:04:06.619
an easier version of that move they just get

01:04:06.619 --> 01:04:08.900
it straight away. Yeah I haven't thought of that

01:04:08.900 --> 01:04:13.920
as like a mental training trick I guess. Do you

01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:17.360
feel like you provide a lot of I guess like psychological

01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:20.500
coaching as well or is it more just like these

01:04:20.500 --> 01:04:22.920
little tricks that help them feel less stressed

01:04:22.920 --> 01:04:29.000
during comps? people like Erin I would say all

01:04:29.000 --> 01:04:32.159
of the stuff that I do has like a psychological

01:04:32.159 --> 01:04:35.579
aspect to it I'm not doing like therapy sessions

01:04:35.579 --> 01:04:39.739
with her but there's some like cognitive behavioral

01:04:39.739 --> 01:04:42.440
therapy techniques that I'll use to kind of help

01:04:42.440 --> 01:04:46.659
her process when stuff is challenging and just

01:04:46.659 --> 01:04:49.619
the like changing perspectives on how they look

01:04:49.619 --> 01:04:51.940
at things and trying to again like provide that

01:04:51.940 --> 01:04:55.199
balanced perspective so if they think that they've

01:04:55.199 --> 01:04:57.079
had a terrible performance trying to provide

01:04:57.079 --> 01:04:59.699
a positive aspect to it so that they can see

01:04:59.699 --> 01:05:01.840
in a balanced sense and then equally when they've

01:05:01.840 --> 01:05:04.000
had a really good performance letting them lean

01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:06.519
into that but then coming back in to say like

01:05:06.519 --> 01:05:08.800
cool what can we continue to do to build on that

01:05:08.800 --> 01:05:11.079
anyway like it's always going to be some sort

01:05:11.079 --> 01:05:14.380
of balance in that sense um but it's always about

01:05:14.380 --> 01:05:17.909
how they're viewing it because more often than

01:05:17.909 --> 01:05:19.750
not they are just like fully negative on it they're

01:05:19.750 --> 01:05:21.110
like oh i could have done that better even when

01:05:21.110 --> 01:05:22.269
they've done really well i could have done that

01:05:22.269 --> 01:05:23.630
better i could have done that that was rubbish

01:05:23.630 --> 01:05:25.789
that wasn't good beating themselves up a lot

01:05:25.789 --> 01:05:28.989
so it's trying to like almost triage it in that

01:05:28.989 --> 01:05:31.429
sense of what do we need to focus on right now

01:05:31.429 --> 01:05:34.070
how can we control this thing let's go and focus

01:05:34.070 --> 01:05:36.250
on those things that we can control change them

01:05:36.250 --> 01:05:38.469
and anything else we're going to have to accept

01:05:38.469 --> 01:05:41.869
it and put it to the side for now and try and

01:05:41.869 --> 01:05:44.469
approach it that way what about more specifically

01:05:44.469 --> 01:05:48.730
when it's like the expectations of being one

01:05:48.730 --> 01:05:50.550
of the higher performers and like maybe having

01:05:50.550 --> 01:05:53.469
to defend your title or like being the one that

01:05:53.469 --> 01:05:56.289
everyone else is trying to be yeah I guess in

01:05:56.289 --> 01:05:58.849
in those instances I'm actually trying to help

01:05:58.849 --> 01:06:00.750
them see it from other people's perspective so

01:06:00.750 --> 01:06:04.329
you are you kind of are the one to be you are

01:06:04.329 --> 01:06:07.250
the one to watch people are waiting for you to

01:06:07.250 --> 01:06:09.750
fail because then it's their chance to step up

01:06:09.750 --> 01:06:12.369
but you can view that in a way that's really

01:06:12.369 --> 01:06:15.039
negative and like people are out to get you but

01:06:15.039 --> 01:06:17.360
realistically like most people are thinking that

01:06:17.360 --> 01:06:19.239
way in some sense it's not necessarily a malicious

01:06:19.239 --> 01:06:22.519
way it's not like oh I hope they fall off it's

01:06:22.519 --> 01:06:24.539
just oh maybe I have a chance to like step up

01:06:24.539 --> 01:06:27.460
and it's trying to help them see it from like

01:06:27.460 --> 01:06:29.340
the empathetic side of view of how do you think

01:06:29.340 --> 01:06:30.840
that person is feeling if they're thinking that

01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:32.699
way and if they're acting that way and talking

01:06:32.699 --> 01:06:34.659
that way do you think that's coming from a place

01:06:34.659 --> 01:06:36.579
of like confidence or do you think that they're

01:06:36.579 --> 01:06:38.659
actually experiencing some insecurities as well

01:06:38.659 --> 01:06:40.699
they're worried about how they're performing

01:06:41.469 --> 01:06:43.369
they think the only way that they can perform

01:06:43.369 --> 01:06:46.449
and can win is if you mess up isn't that like

01:06:46.449 --> 01:06:49.510
a shame that that's how they think like wouldn't

01:06:49.510 --> 01:06:51.429
it be nicer if they could just go like okay i'm

01:06:51.429 --> 01:06:52.889
going to perform my best and get the results

01:06:52.889 --> 01:06:56.449
i want but like it's hard isn't it so it's trying

01:06:56.449 --> 01:07:01.429
to like help them see from other sides so it's

01:07:01.429 --> 01:07:05.130
not just this negative thing um because it is

01:07:05.130 --> 01:07:07.309
quite vulnerable quite isolating when you are

01:07:07.309 --> 01:07:10.130
on your own like i've seen it quite a lot where

01:07:11.420 --> 01:07:14.719
people if like if Erin doesn't do something somebody

01:07:14.719 --> 01:07:16.599
has to be like oh my god Erin didn't do that

01:07:16.599 --> 01:07:19.739
move and I did and that can be really negative

01:07:19.739 --> 01:07:22.400
of like oh my god she's rubbish but actually

01:07:22.400 --> 01:07:24.579
I use an example of like me and her both tried

01:07:24.579 --> 01:07:26.400
the same route in Innsbruck and I do not route

01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:28.940
climb but it made me feel really good when she

01:07:28.940 --> 01:07:32.300
struggled on a move that I'd struggled on not

01:07:32.300 --> 01:07:34.500
because I was like ha she's failed but because

01:07:34.500 --> 01:07:37.139
it meant that I wasn't as rubbish as I thought

01:07:37.139 --> 01:07:38.659
I was because when I'd done that move I was like

01:07:38.659 --> 01:07:41.469
oh my god this is so hard I suck so much actually

01:07:41.469 --> 01:07:42.670
seeing her struggle I was like oh it's a hard

01:07:42.670 --> 01:07:46.309
move great like I just was trying hard so that's

01:07:46.309 --> 01:07:48.969
fine yeah it's really easy to just see it as

01:07:48.969 --> 01:07:51.250
like oh good she fails and actually like there's

01:07:51.250 --> 01:07:53.130
this whole other process is going on internally

01:07:53.130 --> 01:07:55.869
that we don't vocalize or hear from anybody else

01:07:55.869 --> 01:07:58.409
okay yeah that's a good way to put it how do

01:07:58.409 --> 01:08:01.349
you think new comps like PCL will impact the

01:08:01.349 --> 01:08:04.789
scene for both athletes and coaches I mean it's

01:08:04.789 --> 01:08:07.650
exciting it's new ways to get out there I think

01:08:08.670 --> 01:08:10.929
There's still a huge gap between the prize money

01:08:10.929 --> 01:08:13.130
that you get at a World Cup, the publicity that

01:08:13.130 --> 01:08:15.289
you get at a World Cup, all that stuff, and then

01:08:15.289 --> 01:08:17.850
the break in the off -season of what have you

01:08:17.850 --> 01:08:19.729
got to go for. Especially in the UK, we have

01:08:19.729 --> 01:08:22.350
a few small competitions with small prize monies,

01:08:22.350 --> 01:08:25.250
which I guess seem big in terms of the FSC prize

01:08:25.250 --> 01:08:29.449
money, actually. But yeah, it's hard to make

01:08:29.449 --> 01:08:32.450
money as an athlete unless you are... winning

01:08:32.450 --> 01:08:34.869
in the top eight consistently at a world cup

01:08:34.869 --> 01:08:37.109
and very few people are consistently in the top

01:08:37.109 --> 01:08:38.890
eight so it's a good way for other people to

01:08:38.890 --> 01:08:41.210
make a career out of this to put themselves out

01:08:41.210 --> 01:08:44.090
there and like get some more practice in the

01:08:44.090 --> 01:08:47.289
meantime and it seems like a cool different format

01:08:47.289 --> 01:08:50.250
i don't actually know that much about it um but

01:08:50.250 --> 01:08:52.750
it's it seems like a step towards like your formula

01:08:52.750 --> 01:08:55.329
one in that sense of making it a big show and

01:08:55.329 --> 01:08:57.170
it's traveling and more people are invested in

01:08:57.170 --> 01:08:58.470
it so it's always going to be better for the

01:08:58.470 --> 01:09:00.649
athletes to get out there with i guess other

01:09:01.039 --> 01:09:03.760
brands as well do you think the i guess like

01:09:03.760 --> 01:09:06.039
the timing of the comps will make a big difference

01:09:06.039 --> 01:09:08.260
with in terms of their training i mean that's

01:09:08.260 --> 01:09:10.500
where we struggle as well like nationally with

01:09:10.500 --> 01:09:12.800
our championships so like our selections like

01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:16.100
i was saying before if you want to make it onto

01:09:16.100 --> 01:09:18.539
the first boulder wall competition season you

01:09:18.539 --> 01:09:21.939
have to compete in january to make it there and

01:09:21.939 --> 01:09:24.140
that's just because as we get closer to like

01:09:24.140 --> 01:09:25.760
march and april there's too many other competitions

01:09:25.760 --> 01:09:27.119
that classroom there's too many of the weekends

01:09:27.119 --> 01:09:29.500
that are taken up So this is the only weekend

01:09:29.500 --> 01:09:32.220
that we have available to do that, which means

01:09:32.220 --> 01:09:34.859
that if you have to do this competition to qualify,

01:09:35.140 --> 01:09:36.939
your first competition of the year is in January

01:09:36.939 --> 01:09:38.800
and your last competition of the year now is

01:09:38.800 --> 01:09:43.039
in October. So it's a huge, huge season. There's

01:09:43.039 --> 01:09:45.180
like a bit of a training break in between, but

01:09:45.180 --> 01:09:47.039
you don't really have a break in that time because

01:09:47.039 --> 01:09:49.279
you don't want to lose too much. So you might

01:09:49.279 --> 01:09:50.479
have like a little bit of a break to recover,

01:09:50.600 --> 01:09:52.319
but then you have to train for another few weeks

01:09:52.319 --> 01:09:56.039
in between. And then maybe you get... a week

01:09:56.039 --> 01:09:58.140
or two weeks or three weeks off at the end of

01:09:58.140 --> 01:09:59.880
the year but if you didn't perform well enough

01:09:59.880 --> 01:10:01.520
to be pre -selected then you have to peak again

01:10:01.520 --> 01:10:04.640
in January so it's always really challenging

01:10:04.640 --> 01:10:06.520
the way that the year is structured yeah that

01:10:06.520 --> 01:10:08.859
sounds like a nightmare actually for the athletes

01:10:08.859 --> 01:10:13.760
okay last one from the audience we'll do tips

01:10:13.760 --> 01:10:16.199
for improvement as a coach specifically as a

01:10:16.199 --> 01:10:18.479
competition coach from someone who is new to

01:10:18.479 --> 01:10:22.039
coaching go to competitions like sounds really

01:10:22.039 --> 01:10:27.060
straightforward but I think I did a lot of volunteering

01:10:27.060 --> 01:10:31.420
time. I did a lot of time judging, being a runner

01:10:31.420 --> 01:10:33.420
at a competition, also being a coach at a competition,

01:10:33.579 --> 01:10:36.739
just going with the athletes. And the more understanding

01:10:36.739 --> 01:10:38.819
that you can get of the tactics of the competition,

01:10:38.960 --> 01:10:41.300
how it works, what things might come up, the

01:10:41.300 --> 01:10:44.420
better you can prepare your athletes. So if you're

01:10:44.420 --> 01:10:45.939
just preparing your athletes for the best situations,

01:10:46.220 --> 01:10:47.939
they're never going to do that well. So having

01:10:47.939 --> 01:10:49.979
the experience of this could go wrong in a competition,

01:10:50.260 --> 01:10:52.819
the judges could do this. this could happen and

01:10:52.819 --> 01:10:54.539
you prepare your athletes for those scenarios

01:10:54.539 --> 01:10:57.420
you use them to like make training harder to

01:10:57.420 --> 01:10:59.340
develop your skills anyway but then actually

01:10:59.340 --> 01:11:00.760
they get there and they're prepared for that

01:11:00.760 --> 01:11:02.779
then that's only going to be better and you can

01:11:02.779 --> 01:11:04.819
only learn that by going to the comps yourself

01:11:04.819 --> 01:11:08.279
like you can speak to other people and other

01:11:08.279 --> 01:11:11.020
people can tell you but i don't think that it

01:11:11.020 --> 01:11:14.619
is the same as having to like fight that fire

01:11:14.619 --> 01:11:17.859
firsthand um so try and yeah just go to them

01:11:17.859 --> 01:11:21.210
locally like nationally internationally if you

01:11:21.210 --> 01:11:23.529
can but you can the more that you build up the

01:11:23.529 --> 01:11:25.109
more like you are to move up through it anyway

01:11:25.109 --> 01:11:27.489
interesting did you do like that volunteering

01:11:27.489 --> 01:11:30.609
of like doing running and judging and stuff while

01:11:30.609 --> 01:11:32.689
you were a coach or was that before you became

01:11:32.689 --> 01:11:37.890
a coach I think I did both like I think um obviously

01:11:37.890 --> 01:11:40.489
when I was younger I remember there was a world

01:11:40.489 --> 01:11:43.449
cup or European champs or something that was

01:11:43.449 --> 01:11:45.670
happening at which was my local wall when I was

01:11:45.670 --> 01:11:48.890
a kid um and I volunteered as a runner then when

01:11:48.890 --> 01:11:54.000
I was like 15 um but then as I was older like

01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:56.539
my parents were really good at giving back to

01:11:56.539 --> 01:12:00.439
like the community that my mum ran um how her

01:12:00.439 --> 01:12:02.880
role was in Scottish climbing but she was in

01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:04.220
terms of something in Scottish climbing like

01:12:04.220 --> 01:12:05.899
she was judging at every competition and still

01:12:05.899 --> 01:12:08.579
goes and judges at some competitions now my dad

01:12:08.579 --> 01:12:10.479
was like the photographer and he did some judging

01:12:10.479 --> 01:12:14.239
as well so I was kind of brought up to give back

01:12:14.239 --> 01:12:17.039
in that sense so I just automatically went and

01:12:17.039 --> 01:12:18.699
volunteered when there's opportunities i volunteered

01:12:18.699 --> 01:12:22.939
to judge at like ycs's um which is local youth

01:12:22.939 --> 01:12:24.840
competitions that happened like across the whole

01:12:24.840 --> 01:12:26.939
uk but there is like regional rounds i would

01:12:26.939 --> 01:12:30.880
volunteer at and then if the finals was close

01:12:30.880 --> 01:12:33.899
enough to me i would like volunteer that as well

01:12:33.899 --> 01:12:36.060
so i've always and i was coaching then for sure

01:12:36.060 --> 01:12:37.579
because i remember being old enough that i had

01:12:37.579 --> 01:12:40.079
athletes competing and i had to say oh i can't

01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:42.100
judge their category it's not fair give me a

01:12:42.100 --> 01:12:46.880
different category um so yeah whole mixture cool

01:12:46.880 --> 01:12:49.420
okay well i think that wraps up the questions

01:12:49.420 --> 01:12:52.300
i have for today then thank you for joining um

01:12:52.300 --> 01:12:55.720
is there anything like any other words of wisdom

01:12:55.720 --> 01:12:58.720
that you want to get out there um don't get a

01:12:58.720 --> 01:13:00.939
sausage dog because they're like barky and need

01:13:00.939 --> 01:13:04.619
to be in your lap a little bit yeah no i can't

01:13:04.619 --> 01:13:06.100
think of anything else um do you want to let

01:13:06.100 --> 01:13:08.340
people know where they can find you uh yeah you

01:13:08.340 --> 01:13:11.020
can get me on instagram rachel karma with a k

01:13:11.020 --> 01:13:14.720
um and then i don't really well i have a youtube

01:13:14.720 --> 01:13:17.979
but that's for climbing boulders and I can't

01:13:17.979 --> 01:13:19.319
remember what that is but if you search ritual

01:13:19.319 --> 01:13:22.819
car climbing I think I come up and I post a bunch

01:13:22.819 --> 01:13:25.020
of different boulders in font the UK anywhere

01:13:25.020 --> 01:13:28.300
else I go climbing just for female beta shorter

01:13:28.300 --> 01:13:31.229
beta Oh, that'll be good to see. All right. Awesome.

01:13:31.289 --> 01:13:32.729
Well, thank you again. And it was amazing to

01:13:32.729 --> 01:13:35.489
chat. No problem. Thank you so much for making

01:13:35.489 --> 01:13:37.829
it to the end of the podcast. Don't forget to

01:13:37.829 --> 01:13:40.010
like and subscribe if you enjoyed. Otherwise,

01:13:40.130 --> 01:13:43.470
you are a super fake climber. If you're listening

01:13:43.470 --> 01:13:46.029
on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you

01:13:46.029 --> 01:13:48.989
rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion

01:13:48.989 --> 01:13:52.149
on the free competition climbing discord linked

01:13:52.149 --> 01:13:54.590
in the description. Thanks again for listening.