WEBVTT

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the power boulders can be v14 or v15 and they'll

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get done time away from climbing and like not

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being able to exercise for long long bouts i

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like started to realize that i like have some

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kind of depression and anxiety and that i've

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just been like self -medicating for the last

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20 some years via climbing and exercise They're

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just like a waste of plastic. And every time

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I see them, I'm just like, I can't believe you're

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just anyone's allowed to make a climbing hold

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company. Welcome to another episode of the That's

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Not Real Climbing Podcast. I'm your host, Jinni,

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and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today,

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Ben Hanna. Ben is a climber on Team USA and

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hold shaper for Pusher Holds. In this episode,

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we'll get some insight into the grades of World

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Cup boulders, how depression, anxiety, and ADHD

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shapes his relationship with climbing, how he

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balances working as a route setter with training,

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and we'll get his thoughts on hold shipping.

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I hope you enjoy this interview with Ben. I'm

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excited to announce that my sponsor Mad Rock

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for 10 % off your entire Mad Rock order. Back

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to the show! Yeah, I don't know how people do

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it. I hate climbing in the morning. Yeah, it's

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I honestly I've been recently really like like

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the last two years has been recently like been

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really enjoying early morning sessions. It's

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the afternoon sessions that I feel like I like

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perform not as well in. But don't you feel like

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more stiff in the morning like at the end of

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the day is when you're like the most loose and

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stretched out and everything? Honestly, I just

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feel really tired by the end of the day. Like

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2 p .m. session comes around and I'm just like,

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man, I've been up for like six hours. I have

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to plan two meals before the comp instead of

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just cramming whatever I can in my face before

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I go. I'm also like, for me, the morning sessions

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are nice because I'll wake up and it's early,

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but I'll just wake up and I'm like, okay, it's

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go time. I don't have to think about this all

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day. I think it's a lot about that too. You just

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like less to think about and like less stress

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because you just like wake up and it sucks because

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it's early and you go and then it's time to climb.

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It's like over with a lot faster. Yeah, I guess

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that's true. I mean, do you tend to feel like

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you're someone who gets super nervous before

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comms like it's on your mind all day? I wouldn't

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say that I'm like a nervous wreck. I have some

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friends that are like nervous wrecks, but I definitely

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do get nervous and like have anxiety around it.

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In Korea, it was like really weird to deal with

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that because it was like, it wasn't eight days.

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It felt like it was eight days. It was only four

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days, but like four proper rest days. And then

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I climbed on the fifth day. So I had like five

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days to think about the next round. And like

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I went through the whole range of emotions of

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like super stressed. I wasn't going to make the

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round. Super psyched I made the round. excited

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for the round, nervous for the round, kind of

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ready for the round to be over because I'd been

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in Korea for so long and I didn't really get

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to do anything because I was just resting the

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whole time. I was like, I'm ready to get out

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of here. This bed sucks. I haven't done anything

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all week. I just want to do this thing and get

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over with it. Ready to go home. Well, I mean,

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first of all, congrats on making it into semis

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for Korea at the World Champs. That was cool

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to see. Thank you. And so, yeah, like, in that

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in -between time, you didn't really get to do

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any, like, fun things or traveling. You were

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just kind of resting. Yeah, I was pretty locked

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in. We had, like, two days where we, like, bopped

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around a little bit. But I didn't do a bunch

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of sightseeing, and I, like, tried to minimize

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my, like, going out and doing stuff. I also,

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like, went and watched every round, and so that

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ended up taking a bunch of time, too. Usually,

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I won't go to all the rounds to chill out before

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the comp, but I was like, I've got so many days,

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and I was also psyched to watch climbing. I just

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went and watched, I think, every single round

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but one, which happened to be the women's final,

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which sucked because it was the best round of

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the whole competition. I was so bummed because

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I wanted to watch Melina climb so badly, but

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also I was like, It's like 8 or 9. I think it

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started at like 8 the night before semis. I was

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like, do I have to go get ready for bed? And

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it was like a long walk from the venue too. I

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was like, I just can't be dealing with this.

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I'm going to bed. How did your rounds go, you

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felt like? How did the climbing feel? They were

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okay. Weirdly enough, both China qualifiers and

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Korea semifinals, I felt like I had a mediocre

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round. neither neither round I was like oh I'm

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on fire it was like oh I'm like just barely doing

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enough and then honestly in Korea I I got to

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the last boulder and I tried it once and at that

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point I had like topped one boulder and I'd zoned

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everything really quickly and I Was almost positive

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that if I topped this boulder, I would be in

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semis. I was like, this feels like it would be

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enough to be into semis. And then I tried it

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and I fell going to the finish. Now my first

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attempt and was like, okay, for sure this boulder

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is doable. And that means that like, I probably

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need to do it to make the round. And I had like,

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I could have, I would have like. bet good money

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i was like i'm almost 100 sure that if i do this

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boulder i make the semi if i don't do this boulder

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i don't make the semi um and then i watched the

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dude next to me in group b do the boulder and

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i was like okay there's like confirmation bias

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that this boulder goes and it's like probably

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necessary uh and then i proceeded to just like

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totally fold under the pressure and not do the

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boulder and i was like heartbroken i know i knew

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i could do it i was sure that i needed to do

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it and was like this is my moment like i can

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i can achieve my goals if i just do this boulder

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which i like will anyone anytime i talk about

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it that's like the number one thing not to do

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is think about the goal and the end result and

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just focus in on how to do the boulder but i

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like fully folded under the pressure got wrapped

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up and all of the like you know if i do it results

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shenanigans And I was so mad at myself. I was

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so mad at myself. The season was over and I like

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was really bummed. And then I got out of ISO

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and everyone was like, dude, you did it. You're

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in. You're in. And I was like, I don't believe

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you. And then I was in 21st at that moment. And

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so I was like, oh, yeah, like there's no way

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that the next 20 something dude, someone doesn't

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knock me out. And somehow I like held on for.

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the rest of the round and ended up getting like

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the last spot in but it was like i was really

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really upset with myself because i felt like

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i really didn't do my best i like didn't have

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my best day and i it wasn't just like a physically

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like a physical thing it was a mental thing where

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like i i should have done that boulder i know

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i could have done that boulder and i like folded

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under the pressure and it was like more frustrating

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and upsetting that it ended up being like happy

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about making the semi because i was mostly just

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focused on how like i folded under the pressure

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and didn't do the thing that i knew i needed

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to do and then the round in semi -finals i i

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honestly was much happier with the result kind

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of sucked i'm like really not happy with that

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result the first boulder is like was one of the

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boulders i like had a shot of topping and felt

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like that one was doable but it was really just

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like about finding the right body position to

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like jump and I didn't find it and I was like

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okay with that I was like it would have been

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nice to have done that boulder and I probably

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could have done that boulder and like in a different

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day maybe did do that boulder but it felt like

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it was just kind of a it's a skill issue but

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it also felt like kind of a luck issue like sometimes

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there's you find the right position and sometimes

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you just don't and under four minutes you get

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like you know a couple of tries it's like that

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that day i didn't find it and that's okay and

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then the second boulder was a lot more straightforward

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and i really should have done that boulder it

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felt really hard the last move and then i proceeded

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to watch everyone else just own the move and

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then colin even told me that that boulder was

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like he was like that's like a white epi p literally

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Everyone should do that boulder. That boulder

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is so easy. It's too easy for a round. After

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knowing that you didn't do it? Yeah. We were

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at dinner after the round and he was like, sorry,

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man. That boulder was so easy. Literally, you

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couldn't not do that boulder. I was like, yeah,

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fair enough. Also, how'd that zone go on number

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five? Probably should have done that one. That

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was the one I wish I had done. But it wasn't

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like I dropped the top or like mentally fumbled.

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It was just like a move felt hard and I didn't

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do it and that's okay. And then four or three

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like felt hard and I didn't do it and that was

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okay. I think I got two tops or three tops. Like

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for me, I'm not that motivated or distressed

00:10:47.169 --> 00:10:49.230
when I don't do the power block that only two

00:10:49.230 --> 00:10:52.450
dudes do. That's like feels fine to me. I'm not

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upset about that. And then five, I was... A little

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bummed about because that was also a boulder

00:11:01.379 --> 00:11:03.340
that I probably should have done. Like arguably

00:11:03.340 --> 00:11:05.519
in a different day. Wait, you mean number four?

00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:09.919
Number four, yeah. The slab. In like a different

00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:13.320
day, I flashed that boulder, I think. And it

00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:16.379
ended up taking me like all four minutes to find

00:11:16.379 --> 00:11:20.019
or five minutes to find just the zone. And then

00:11:20.019 --> 00:11:22.539
when I found the zone, I was like, oh, that was

00:11:22.539 --> 00:11:24.960
like really easy. It was super chill to get there

00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:29.100
once I figured out the way. and that felt like

00:11:29.100 --> 00:11:31.419
I was getting flustered and, like, just bad decision

00:11:31.419 --> 00:11:34.039
-making. And so that was, like, kind of a bummer,

00:11:34.039 --> 00:11:36.419
and two was kind of a bummer, and then the result

00:11:36.419 --> 00:11:40.460
overall was kind of a bummer. I was, like, kind

00:11:40.460 --> 00:11:42.259
of thought that maybe four zones was going to

00:11:42.259 --> 00:11:46.000
be better than second to last place. Oh, yeah.

00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:48.580
Yeah, I guess it was a high -scoring round. Yeah,

00:11:48.700 --> 00:11:50.580
it was a super high -scoring round. It was, like,

00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:53.720
weird because two of the boulders, like, didn't

00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:58.860
go for a lot of people. But then a lot of people

00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:02.000
like last second squeaked out some of the boulders.

00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:07.639
Like Colin said, number two was piss easy. And

00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:11.200
so everyone did it. I wouldn't say a white at

00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:14.220
BP is necessarily easy. And for reference, white

00:12:14.220 --> 00:12:17.320
at BP is V8 to V10. It's funny too, because I

00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:19.299
was like, there's no way it's a white. Like I

00:12:19.299 --> 00:12:22.039
set a white set BP and like we have probably

00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:27.029
the stiffest BP in the country. Greg would never

00:12:27.029 --> 00:12:29.070
let me get away with calling that a white boulder.

00:12:30.409 --> 00:12:32.169
Never let me get away with calling that a white

00:12:32.169 --> 00:12:36.830
boulder. Maybe bottom mint, but still. But then

00:12:36.830 --> 00:12:39.490
on that caliber, bottom mint's supposed to be

00:12:39.490 --> 00:12:44.110
V11, and V11 as a power boulder in World Cup

00:12:44.110 --> 00:12:48.190
is crazy. I think we talked about this last time.

00:12:51.210 --> 00:12:54.929
Logistically, the power boulders can be... v14

00:12:54.929 --> 00:12:58.610
or v15 and they'll get done in a world cup format

00:12:58.610 --> 00:13:01.370
in a world cup format yeah like in a semi -final

00:13:01.370 --> 00:13:06.250
they'll they'll get tops um there was one in

00:13:06.250 --> 00:13:09.629
china that was colin said was like impossible

00:13:09.629 --> 00:13:13.350
and then it got two tops he was like it was 8b

00:13:13.350 --> 00:13:16.110
from the zone to the top but you don't feel like

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you're a power boulder no i mean i'm like i i

00:13:20.330 --> 00:13:23.129
have done hard things and can do hard things,

00:13:23.250 --> 00:13:25.450
but I definitely would not consider myself, like,

00:13:25.509 --> 00:13:28.149
in the strong end of the field. Would you say,

00:13:28.210 --> 00:13:32.570
like, that the power boulders in World Cups are

00:13:32.570 --> 00:13:35.889
maybe, like, harder in difficulty compared to,

00:13:35.970 --> 00:13:39.690
like, cordo moves or slab? Oh, for sure, yeah.

00:13:39.990 --> 00:13:43.389
Just, like, because of the, like, what they're

00:13:43.389 --> 00:13:49.889
asking. Like, if you make the... 13 or v14 quarter

00:13:49.889 --> 00:13:55.090
move and it's asking like risk and it's also

00:13:55.090 --> 00:13:58.190
asking like body position like the boulder one

00:13:58.190 --> 00:14:02.590
and semis which was the quarter boulder was risky

00:14:02.590 --> 00:14:06.690
but really what it was asking was like finding

00:14:06.690 --> 00:14:10.669
the right trajectory of that and so like find

00:14:10.669 --> 00:14:14.629
that was diff like difficult enough on its own

00:14:14.629 --> 00:14:18.100
that the like physicality of the boulder Didn't

00:14:18.100 --> 00:14:20.159
have to be that hard. And if it was that hard,

00:14:20.259 --> 00:14:23.980
then you would have significantly lower tops

00:14:23.980 --> 00:14:29.179
if no tops on that move. There's definitely less

00:14:29.179 --> 00:14:32.320
cordo in qualifiers, so I can speak less to how

00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:36.440
difficult they actually are. But just as someone

00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:41.639
who sets and has set comps and has my hand in

00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:44.820
that kind of field, you really don't have to

00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:50.200
make... As any other attributes that make a boulder

00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:52.620
difficult go up, then you can lower the intensity

00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:55.980
of the boulder. Versus a straightforward power

00:14:55.980 --> 00:15:00.539
boulder, you can make it V15. If there's an easily

00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:06.059
readable sequence and down -pulling holds, then

00:15:06.059 --> 00:15:09.980
the majority of those dudes are so strong. They

00:15:09.980 --> 00:15:14.100
will go out climbing once a year and just like...

00:15:14.350 --> 00:15:18.350
dookie on every double digit boulder in an area

00:15:18.350 --> 00:15:23.610
like adam shahar went to uh switzerland after

00:15:23.610 --> 00:15:28.350
prague last year or so i think it was prague

00:15:28.350 --> 00:15:32.330
and he he had like a hundred digit day or 100

00:15:32.330 --> 00:15:37.330
v point day where he climbed like 2v14s 3v13s

00:15:37.330 --> 00:15:41.070
and like 4v12s all in a day which is crazy to

00:15:41.070 --> 00:15:43.389
me because like if I climb AV14, I'm psyched.

00:15:43.570 --> 00:15:47.470
Right, yeah. Like I climbed AV13 yesterday and

00:15:47.470 --> 00:15:50.289
I was like geeked out of my mind. Congrats. It

00:15:50.289 --> 00:15:53.850
took me 20 sessions. Oh, geez. Well, congrats

00:15:53.850 --> 00:15:56.330
on finally getting it. So I guess like logistically,

00:15:56.450 --> 00:15:59.309
if there is such a hard power boulder in like

00:15:59.309 --> 00:16:02.070
a World Cup semis or finals and you only have

00:16:02.070 --> 00:16:05.850
four minutes, that's not a lot of time if you

00:16:05.850 --> 00:16:09.879
like mess up the first time. rest enough and

00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:12.740
do it again does that kind of do you feel like

00:16:12.740 --> 00:16:15.139
that kind of makes it an issue in terms of like

00:16:15.139 --> 00:16:17.980
watchability interest because like you can't

00:16:17.980 --> 00:16:20.440
i don't know it only like your tries only get

00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:22.279
worse from there right if you only have four

00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:26.620
minutes totally um i personally don't think so

00:16:26.620 --> 00:16:29.519
i i like really enjoy watching the straightforward

00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:33.200
power boulders like at this point for me watching

00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:39.299
climate competitions i enjoy like when they give

00:16:39.299 --> 00:16:42.639
us like straightforward straightforward ish but

00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:45.940
like what people would call traditional rock

00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:50.759
climbing power blocks um like men's four and

00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:53.659
the final was a good example of that it wasn't

00:16:53.659 --> 00:16:56.960
my favorite boulder but and there was like a

00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:01.059
little bit of complexity and risk um but like

00:17:01.059 --> 00:17:05.170
it boiled down to really bad crimp and a really

00:17:05.170 --> 00:17:07.910
bad sloper and I think everyone climbed it wrong

00:17:07.910 --> 00:17:10.390
I think you're supposed to do like some flip

00:17:10.390 --> 00:17:15.390
but like that was pretty close to a rock climb

00:17:15.390 --> 00:17:18.750
and it was by far the most fun boulder to watch

00:17:18.750 --> 00:17:22.130
for me obviously part of it's like it's the fourth

00:17:22.130 --> 00:17:24.349
boulder so everything comes down to it and it's

00:17:24.349 --> 00:17:29.160
like all boils down to the last boulder but that

00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:30.880
was like the most out of all of all the climbs

00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:32.920
that was the most enjoyable one and that was

00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:34.819
honestly the one that i like stopped talking

00:17:34.819 --> 00:17:36.539
to my friends and was like oh i'm psyched to

00:17:36.539 --> 00:17:40.859
watch this this is sick um the other thing too

00:17:40.859 --> 00:17:43.619
is like i mean maybe people spend less time on

00:17:43.619 --> 00:17:46.079
more time on the pads when there's like a hard

00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:49.460
boulder but in a four minute round for a final

00:17:49.460 --> 00:17:52.539
like you'll give it a go and you'll either do

00:17:52.539 --> 00:17:54.940
it or you won't and then you'll rest for like

00:17:54.940 --> 00:17:58.160
the minute And then you'll give it a go again

00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:01.519
and that will be the end of the round. And so

00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:04.099
maybe it ends up having slower rounds. But I

00:18:04.099 --> 00:18:08.220
think for anyone that enjoys rock climbing and

00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:10.519
enjoys watching comps, I think it might be just

00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:12.099
as exciting. I don't know. I would advocate for

00:18:12.099 --> 00:18:14.700
it to be just as exciting. Yeah, I think it depends.

00:18:14.980 --> 00:18:17.539
I think for me, sometimes it's sad to watch if

00:18:17.539 --> 00:18:21.079
they just get shut down and then that's all you

00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:25.119
see. That's also kind of sad to see. It depends.

00:18:25.380 --> 00:18:27.319
But then it is nice to like see later rounds

00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:29.480
where people like actually show that it's doable

00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:32.700
and it looks like totally older. But yeah, I

00:18:32.700 --> 00:18:35.440
could see an argument for both ways. Okay. So

00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:39.299
kind of a long intro, I guess. But for those

00:18:39.299 --> 00:18:42.480
who don't know your background, let's get into

00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:45.859
back to the beginning where how you got into

00:18:45.859 --> 00:18:49.559
climbing and competing. Okay. Yeah. So I started

00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:53.180
climbing with my dad when I was like two or three.

00:18:54.509 --> 00:18:56.569
He would just bring me outside climbing with

00:18:56.569 --> 00:18:58.069
him on the weekends. That was like our thing.

00:18:58.490 --> 00:19:03.089
It was like either skiing or climbing. And then

00:19:03.089 --> 00:19:07.069
when I was 10, I really enjoyed skiing. I didn't

00:19:07.069 --> 00:19:08.930
really like climbing that much. And then when

00:19:08.930 --> 00:19:13.450
I was 10, I switched schools and we had a climbing

00:19:13.450 --> 00:19:16.390
wall at the school. And I was like telling everyone

00:19:16.390 --> 00:19:19.210
how awesome I was at climbing. And one of the

00:19:19.210 --> 00:19:21.769
kids was like, oh, you're not that good. There's

00:19:21.769 --> 00:19:24.519
this kid, Quincy. And he got second at nationals

00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:26.859
last year. And at that point, I didn't know there

00:19:26.859 --> 00:19:29.079
was like climbing comms or nationals or any of

00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:32.140
this, anything about, I really didn't know anything.

00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:35.839
And I was like, whoa, okay. And I just like my

00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:38.740
competitive spirit was like, I need to do that

00:19:38.740 --> 00:19:40.619
then because obviously this kid's better than

00:19:40.619 --> 00:19:43.740
me and I need to be better than him. So I like

00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:45.859
joined the climbing team with Quincy and we quickly

00:19:45.859 --> 00:19:50.579
became best friends. And then. I started doing

00:19:50.579 --> 00:19:54.500
comps and fell in love with doing comps. And

00:19:54.500 --> 00:19:57.359
then within a couple of weeks of joining the

00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:58.900
climbing team, I was like, Dad, I'm going to

00:19:58.900 --> 00:20:03.039
be a professional rock climber. And my parents,

00:20:03.099 --> 00:20:05.339
super supportive, were like, okay, cool. If you

00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:07.420
change your mind, let us know. But we'll support

00:20:07.420 --> 00:20:10.720
you as long as you want to do that. And I'm 26,

00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:14.160
almost 27, and I'm still doing it. You had a

00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:20.109
rock climbing wall in your school? Yeah. Well,

00:20:20.109 --> 00:20:22.029
that's like pretty rare to find. I actually,

00:20:22.130 --> 00:20:24.289
in my middle school, we also had a rock climbing

00:20:24.289 --> 00:20:26.450
wall, which was super strange thinking back on

00:20:26.450 --> 00:20:28.269
it because like nobody has a rock climbing wall

00:20:28.269 --> 00:20:32.450
in school. No, totally. I think my dad actually

00:20:32.450 --> 00:20:38.849
built it. And he's like, he's a super, super

00:20:38.849 --> 00:20:43.450
talented. I'm trying to think of the right word.

00:20:43.630 --> 00:20:45.690
He's really good at building things and doing

00:20:45.690 --> 00:20:50.089
things. And this is kind of a tangent, but, and

00:20:50.089 --> 00:20:52.990
maybe a great, yeah, it's kind of a tangent,

00:20:53.049 --> 00:20:55.450
but he was always building stuff for me and my

00:20:55.450 --> 00:21:00.349
sister and like the school and stuff. And I'm

00:21:00.349 --> 00:21:03.970
always building crazy like gates and stuff. Okay.

00:21:04.549 --> 00:21:08.309
And decks and all kind of everything, all the

00:21:08.309 --> 00:21:10.269
things. Yeah. It was like a super alternative

00:21:10.269 --> 00:21:14.650
school. This kind of ties back into it. I was.

00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:21.859
super ADHD as a kid, still am. And so my parents

00:21:21.859 --> 00:21:24.819
quickly realized that like also super dyslexic.

00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:28.680
So like the first school, basically my parents

00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:30.599
were like, we're putting him in private school.

00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:34.480
And so like he doesn't just get left behind because

00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:37.440
if he goes to public school, like he will never

00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.579
learn to read and he'll like never get anywhere

00:21:40.579 --> 00:21:42.799
in life because I was just always bouncing off

00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:46.640
the walls and like. Couldn't read and so like

00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:49.579
they put me in this super alternative school

00:21:49.579 --> 00:21:53.140
called Little Earth and it was like this massive

00:21:53.140 --> 00:21:58.920
they had this huge playground and the School

00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:01.380
was like structured around a lot of like outdoor

00:22:01.380 --> 00:22:07.240
playtime And then even in that sits like situation

00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:12.160
I had to be like have special needs like the

00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.460
teachers would pull me aside and be like, okay,

00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:16.819
go run three laps around the playground because

00:22:16.819 --> 00:22:18.859
you're distracting all the kids and you obviously

00:22:18.859 --> 00:22:25.539
need to move for a bit. But yeah, it was pretty

00:22:25.539 --> 00:22:27.400
funny. But yeah, my dad ended up building a climbing

00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:31.059
wall for it. And I think that was like, they

00:22:31.059 --> 00:22:34.900
built a climbing wall and then I immediately

00:22:34.900 --> 00:22:38.269
was like, okay, I'm really going to climb. Okay.

00:22:38.369 --> 00:22:41.049
And since you went into it a little bit, you

00:22:41.049 --> 00:22:43.869
mentioned before you kind of recently felt like

00:22:43.869 --> 00:22:46.690
you used climbing as like self -medication for

00:22:46.690 --> 00:22:49.069
ADHD. What does that kind of look like for you?

00:22:49.490 --> 00:22:54.150
Growing up, I guess the best way to tell the

00:22:54.150 --> 00:22:57.509
story is like, as far as that goes is last year,

00:22:57.630 --> 00:23:00.569
I like went back home and my dad and me went

00:23:00.569 --> 00:23:03.170
climbing and like on the road trip or drive to

00:23:03.170 --> 00:23:05.069
the crag, he was like, hey, we have this hard

00:23:05.069 --> 00:23:07.910
conversation. Oh, God. Okay. He was like, recently

00:23:07.910 --> 00:23:10.170
me and my mom found out that we probably have

00:23:10.170 --> 00:23:14.589
ADHD. Yeah, I know. We also kind of think that

00:23:14.589 --> 00:23:16.490
you possibly have it. And I was like, dad, we

00:23:16.490 --> 00:23:19.750
know. That's why I went to all those special

00:23:19.750 --> 00:23:21.730
schools as a kid is because I couldn't sit still

00:23:21.730 --> 00:23:25.549
all day. They had to pay someone a bunch of money

00:23:25.549 --> 00:23:31.109
to make sure I would learn anything. I always

00:23:31.109 --> 00:23:33.789
knew I had ADHD and it's always been a part of

00:23:33.789 --> 00:23:37.200
my life and we just kind of decided not to. medicaid

00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:39.619
for it i kind of and that was like the funny

00:23:39.619 --> 00:23:41.440
part of that conversation was they were like

00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.859
we think you have adhd we knew this i thought

00:23:45.859 --> 00:23:47.700
we just decided as a family we weren't going

00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:50.039
to put me on medication he was like no which

00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:52.619
i thought was hilarious because i've always known

00:23:52.619 --> 00:23:55.220
um and i was just like my parents won't put me

00:23:55.220 --> 00:23:57.799
on medication but it does sound nice because

00:23:57.799 --> 00:23:59.960
i would love to be able to do what you guys do

00:23:59.960 --> 00:24:05.960
which is sit down and write um but then The other,

00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:09.720
like, I think more applicable to, like, what

00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:14.180
I've learned about my climbing is I also have

00:24:14.180 --> 00:24:16.599
other family members that, like, have struggled

00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:20.079
with, like, depression, anxiety. And I always

00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:21.680
thought that was kind of, like, their thing and

00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:26.759
I was fine. And then after, like, taking time

00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:28.640
away from climbing and, like, not being able

00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:31.619
to exercise for long bouts, I, like, started

00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:37.140
to realize that I, like, probably also have some

00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:42.500
kind of you know depression and anxiety and that

00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:44.420
i've just been like self -medicating for the

00:24:44.420 --> 00:24:48.339
last 20 some years via climbing and exercise

00:24:48.339 --> 00:24:52.380
using the dopamine from exercising to like i

00:24:52.380 --> 00:24:55.720
see counterbalance the lack of dopamine that

00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:59.339
my brain produces yeah makes sense which like

00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:02.519
i think has structured and created a lot of the

00:25:03.069 --> 00:25:06.210
routines that i've created around climbing um

00:25:06.210 --> 00:25:10.309
which would include like going to the gym at

00:25:10.309 --> 00:25:12.930
nine o 'clock at night after a long day of work

00:25:12.930 --> 00:25:17.369
um and like just absurd amounts of like just

00:25:17.369 --> 00:25:20.490
absurd things that i like also recently realized

00:25:20.490 --> 00:25:23.269
because me and my girlfriend moved in together

00:25:23.269 --> 00:25:27.289
and so we're like planning and scheduling around

00:25:27.289 --> 00:25:29.849
each other she's like you're crazy like why are

00:25:29.849 --> 00:25:31.849
you doing this and i was like i don't know it's

00:25:31.849 --> 00:25:34.160
just how i live my life And it's like because

00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:36.740
I need to get outside every day and do something

00:25:36.740 --> 00:25:40.380
like multiple times a day to like get that dopamine.

00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:44.299
I guess does it kind of feel like you're like

00:25:44.299 --> 00:25:47.920
one reliable source of joy in life? For sure.

00:25:48.019 --> 00:25:51.559
I wouldn't say it's my like only source of joy

00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:55.180
in life, but I will like find myself sinking

00:25:55.180 --> 00:25:58.420
into like, you know, bits of like anxiety or

00:25:58.420 --> 00:26:01.160
depression and then be like and realize that

00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:03.650
like I just need to go. do something outside

00:26:03.650 --> 00:26:05.950
or like go to the gym and exercise and then i

00:26:05.950 --> 00:26:08.869
feel significantly better why that is i don't

00:26:08.869 --> 00:26:11.349
know i haven't like been tested or gone like

00:26:11.349 --> 00:26:14.769
i just have been kind of making correlations

00:26:14.769 --> 00:26:18.450
between how i feel and how i what i do i'm like

00:26:18.450 --> 00:26:23.609
okay like uh i do have weird gym routines and

00:26:23.609 --> 00:26:26.750
i also feel really bad when i don't do things

00:26:26.750 --> 00:26:28.970
outside or exercise and i'm sure everyone is

00:26:28.970 --> 00:26:30.890
like yeah i feel bad when i don't do things like

00:26:30.890 --> 00:26:34.170
go outside But it's, like, I think to another

00:26:34.170 --> 00:26:38.190
level of, like, I'll, like, really start to hate

00:26:38.190 --> 00:26:39.750
my life. I'm like, oh, it's because I didn't

00:26:39.750 --> 00:26:42.170
go out. I didn't exercise. I need to go to the

00:26:42.170 --> 00:26:45.869
gym. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Which could

00:26:45.869 --> 00:26:48.509
be a bad thing, but also I feel like it's partially

00:26:48.509 --> 00:26:51.289
part of my success in climbing is the fact that,

00:26:51.329 --> 00:26:55.369
like, I'm just constantly going to the gym. Sometimes

00:26:55.369 --> 00:26:57.950
it's really useless time in the gym. It's, like,

00:26:57.970 --> 00:27:02.160
not beneficial. time in the gym like non -effective

00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:06.700
really yeah like there's definitely an effective

00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:10.380
way to get everything done and be an athlete

00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:12.880
you know be an athlete and then there's like

00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:15.140
I have to go to the gym three days a week or

00:27:15.140 --> 00:27:17.539
not three days a week three times a day and I'm

00:27:17.539 --> 00:27:19.680
mill around for a long time and I'm just like

00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:22.440
doing random things that like are not that but

00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:24.680
it's just like I need to go to do something to

00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:27.079
feel good well yeah thank you for sharing that

00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:29.180
first of all I think that There's probably a

00:27:29.180 --> 00:27:32.279
lot of people who can relate to that and experience

00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:35.839
something similar. Do you like have plans to

00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:38.059
get medicated, you think? Or does this work out

00:27:38.059 --> 00:27:40.220
all right for you? I don't have any plans on

00:27:40.220 --> 00:27:43.319
getting medicated. I think about it often. I

00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:46.720
don't have really any interest in medicating

00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:53.319
for like depression or anxiety. Although like

00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:56.529
sometimes I'm like, this sucks. It's pretty manageable

00:27:56.529 --> 00:27:58.769
and I've been self -medicating for so long and

00:27:58.769 --> 00:28:01.970
at no point I'm ever like the super depressive

00:28:01.970 --> 00:28:05.069
dude who walks around. It's never gotten so bad

00:28:05.069 --> 00:28:06.950
that I'm like, oh, I need to get medicated because

00:28:06.950 --> 00:28:10.250
it's super bad. It's mostly just like I hadn't

00:28:10.250 --> 00:28:12.289
started to notice it and was like, oh, that probably

00:28:12.289 --> 00:28:15.869
explains my behaviors. I've thought about ADHD

00:28:15.869 --> 00:28:22.690
on and off and it could be really nice to get

00:28:22.690 --> 00:28:25.650
medicated for that. it just sounds like a lot

00:28:25.650 --> 00:28:30.230
of work and also i'm not like really sure if

00:28:30.230 --> 00:28:37.009
i'm like the benefits outweigh the cons and maybe

00:28:37.009 --> 00:28:39.730
there are no cons i don't know it's just been

00:28:39.730 --> 00:28:42.190
something i've been like programmed to not like

00:28:42.190 --> 00:28:45.549
i'm like kind of scared of medicating for that

00:28:45.549 --> 00:28:48.930
and i'm like well i'm doing fine so far so like

00:28:48.930 --> 00:28:51.390
do i really need to like mess with it or yeah

00:28:51.390 --> 00:28:56.930
so i just like I've kind of structured my life

00:28:56.930 --> 00:29:00.069
around not needing to do the things that I struggle

00:29:00.069 --> 00:29:04.369
with. And like, I think we talked about this

00:29:04.369 --> 00:29:07.309
last time was like a couple times a year. It

00:29:07.309 --> 00:29:09.869
really sucks because I like, you know, can't

00:29:09.869 --> 00:29:12.869
sit down and write. So like taxes, those suck.

00:29:12.990 --> 00:29:15.210
Those are like the bane of my existence because

00:29:15.210 --> 00:29:17.150
like the act of like sitting down and typing

00:29:17.150 --> 00:29:20.490
is like really difficult for me. And like focusing

00:29:20.490 --> 00:29:23.640
long enough to like. do something i'm not interested

00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:28.740
in doing taxes really hard so like currently

00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:31.640
i still haven't filed last year's taxes i filed

00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:34.619
like an extension but like yeah like it's it's

00:29:34.619 --> 00:29:37.640
bad but it's like one time a year i need to just

00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:40.119
like do the thing that sucks really bad but then

00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:42.339
the rest of my life like i don't really need

00:29:42.339 --> 00:29:45.079
i've like gone out of my way to structure my

00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:47.000
life or in such a way that i like don't need

00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:50.140
to do things i have a hard time doing yeah i

00:29:50.140 --> 00:29:53.289
mean i think there might be some con i mean i

00:29:53.289 --> 00:29:56.250
don't really know what the cons are i mean now

00:29:56.250 --> 00:29:57.769
i'm just speculating because i'm not a doctor

00:29:57.769 --> 00:30:00.750
but you should probably ask a doctor i you probably

00:30:00.750 --> 00:30:02.609
should it's one of the things i'm really bad

00:30:02.609 --> 00:30:05.049
at is like scheduling doctor's appointments so

00:30:05.049 --> 00:30:06.450
that's probably why i haven't done it yet and

00:30:06.450 --> 00:30:09.769
also i guess just want to put a disclaimer that

00:30:09.769 --> 00:30:11.549
by self -medicating you just mean like through

00:30:11.549 --> 00:30:14.650
climbing and not just like taking random medications

00:30:14.650 --> 00:30:20.069
no yeah i yeah no just just climbing just excessive

00:30:20.069 --> 00:30:23.789
amounts of exercise yeah so i guess with your

00:30:23.789 --> 00:30:27.809
self -medicating for adhd and climbing what does

00:30:27.809 --> 00:30:30.049
your training schedule end up looking like or

00:30:30.049 --> 00:30:32.509
is it really just like you kind of go with the

00:30:32.509 --> 00:30:35.029
flow If you're interested in ad -free episodes

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and would like to unlock over four hours of deleted

00:30:37.769 --> 00:30:40.309
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00:30:40.309 --> 00:30:43.890
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00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:04.880
help out non -monetarily. Liking, commenting,

00:31:04.980 --> 00:31:07.720
and sharing helps a great deal as well. Back

00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:11.000
to the show. This is probably also a byproduct

00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:13.700
of the ADHD is I just really go by the flow.

00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:17.920
So it could be more structured. I've had structured

00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:21.339
plans. Right now, I don't have a coach that writes

00:31:21.339 --> 00:31:25.119
me a training plan. So I don't have a structured

00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:27.400
plan. The other thing that's changed recently

00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:31.259
is last January, I started working full time.

00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:34.400
As a route setter and as like front desk of the

00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:39.519
gym. And it is like very time consuming. And

00:31:39.519 --> 00:31:43.500
so I've had to cut back probably like 60 to 70

00:31:43.500 --> 00:31:47.500
% of my training. Oh, geez. Which, yeah, is a

00:31:47.500 --> 00:31:49.799
lot. I like have been in this constant state

00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:54.359
of like I'm getting good results, but I'm also

00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:57.099
in like constant anxiety that I'm not training

00:31:57.099 --> 00:31:59.220
enough for the last year, which is kind of a

00:31:59.220 --> 00:32:04.700
bummer. because I'm just like yeah in a constant

00:32:04.700 --> 00:32:06.680
state of like I really should have trained today

00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:08.319
and I should have trained yesterday and I'm always

00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:10.819
tired and this sucks and like I'm not doing enough

00:32:10.819 --> 00:32:15.839
and I'm like yeah I'm not doing enough but also

00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:20.039
I'm in the best shape of my life and I'm getting

00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:24.740
good results so part of me still like fires right

00:32:24.740 --> 00:32:27.240
back with like well how good could it be if you

00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:31.920
were were training enough so I don't know, but

00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:38.539
right now it's not a lot. Um, it's, I set two

00:32:38.539 --> 00:32:40.900
days a week. So those are like two of my climbing

00:32:40.900 --> 00:32:47.420
days. And then I climb when I can, um, between

00:32:47.420 --> 00:32:51.339
like most of it's like schedule, most of it's

00:32:51.339 --> 00:32:53.940
schedule and another part of it's just like dealing

00:32:53.940 --> 00:32:58.259
with being tired. Like I, I can't climb after

00:32:58.259 --> 00:33:01.299
I work. I just like don't have enough energy

00:33:01.299 --> 00:33:04.099
after. So the sessions are just like worthless.

00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:06.759
So I might as well just rest and then wait for

00:33:06.759 --> 00:33:11.279
a day that I have energy to climb. So that's

00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:13.000
mostly what I mean by like I climb when I can

00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.799
because it's like the days that I have energy

00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:18.420
to climb, I climb, I train. And then the days

00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:21.339
that I don't, I just rest. So like how many climbing

00:33:21.339 --> 00:33:27.019
days would you say a week? So last week I did

00:33:27.019 --> 00:33:33.680
the comp. Saturday, Sunday. No. All day Saturday.

00:33:34.059 --> 00:33:37.960
And then I rested Sunday. And then I sat Monday,

00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:42.319
Tuesday, Thursday. And then I tried to climb

00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:46.200
Thursday night and it was bad. Yeah. And then

00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:50.079
I rested Friday, Saturday. And then I climbed

00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:53.400
yesterday. And then I tried to do a session today

00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:56.099
and I was wrecked. So it was like... pretty bad

00:33:56.099 --> 00:33:58.220
I went in and like warmed up essentially and

00:33:58.220 --> 00:34:00.859
I was like it's just not worth my time and went

00:34:00.859 --> 00:34:04.799
home and then I'll set tomorrow and Thursday

00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:10.380
and then compete Friday Saturday I mean so you

00:34:10.380 --> 00:34:12.900
count like setting days as climbing days because

00:34:12.900 --> 00:34:15.679
like setting is a totally different exhaustion

00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:19.380
to like training yeah exactly I I've started

00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:21.219
to count them as climbing days only because if

00:34:21.219 --> 00:34:24.820
I don't my climbing days look really bad so it's

00:34:24.820 --> 00:34:28.489
like And also I'm still in good shape and like

00:34:28.489 --> 00:34:33.230
still getting stronger. So I assume that part

00:34:33.230 --> 00:34:36.809
of it's from setting. It's not optimized, but

00:34:36.809 --> 00:34:41.789
like I am still, they do still count as climbing

00:34:41.789 --> 00:34:44.050
days to me. Unless they're like, if we do like

00:34:44.050 --> 00:34:48.050
a slab day where we're like super low level stuff.

00:34:48.309 --> 00:34:52.510
But even then I'm still like, it's, it's. I might

00:34:52.510 --> 00:34:55.010
as well just go to the TC and like do, it'd be

00:34:55.010 --> 00:34:56.510
the same as going to the TC and doing like a

00:34:56.510 --> 00:35:00.150
no hands day. You also implemented a mint circuit.

00:35:00.250 --> 00:35:04.050
And so quite frequently I'll like set a mint

00:35:04.050 --> 00:35:06.969
boulder, which is like between V11 and B15 and

00:35:06.969 --> 00:35:09.449
then like four on it all day. So that's like

00:35:09.449 --> 00:35:13.849
counts as to me as max bouldering. Wow. Well,

00:35:13.989 --> 00:35:17.590
it's kind of crazy to hear that you really don't

00:35:17.590 --> 00:35:21.409
get like that many. training specific days. I

00:35:21.409 --> 00:35:24.130
feel like maybe back in the day, it sounded like

00:35:24.130 --> 00:35:27.469
people were more lax about their climbing competitions

00:35:27.469 --> 00:35:31.309
and training for it. But nowadays, I hear a lot

00:35:31.309 --> 00:35:33.849
of more athletes saying that they're doing like

00:35:33.849 --> 00:35:36.650
five days a week, like all day in the gym with

00:35:36.650 --> 00:35:39.110
like specific boulder set for them, things like

00:35:39.110 --> 00:35:41.309
that. So it's kind of crazy to hear that you

00:35:41.309 --> 00:35:44.130
kind of have this wild schedule and still manage

00:35:44.130 --> 00:35:48.420
to even make it into like semis. Kind of crazy

00:35:48.420 --> 00:35:51.780
to hear. Yeah, I don't know why it's working

00:35:51.780 --> 00:35:56.579
for me. And to throw another curveball at you,

00:35:56.679 --> 00:36:04.079
my climbing up until team trials was, I did six

00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:07.880
weeks at Jumbo Love, climbing only on that route

00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:13.400
every other day. And then I did, I took five

00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:19.849
days off, and then I went to, Spain and climbed

00:36:19.849 --> 00:36:22.650
like two days on, one day off, or one day on,

00:36:22.710 --> 00:36:27.030
one day off for a month just in Spain on a rope.

00:36:27.550 --> 00:36:34.309
And then I took eight days off. And then the

00:36:34.309 --> 00:36:37.150
month leading up to team trials, I only set during

00:36:37.150 --> 00:36:40.690
the week, Monday, Tuesday. And then I would drive

00:36:40.690 --> 00:36:44.489
out to the hurricane and climb Friday, Saturday,

00:36:44.489 --> 00:36:47.800
or Saturday, Sunday. both days and then come

00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:50.679
home and do just setting and that was like the

00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:53.820
only training I did leading up to team trials

00:36:53.820 --> 00:36:56.619
and then the last two weeks before team trials

00:36:56.619 --> 00:37:00.400
I took a break on my lunch break from setting

00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:03.059
and ran across the street and like I would like

00:37:03.059 --> 00:37:05.239
I finished setting at 11 ran across the street

00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:08.059
pulled on the hangboard and then did my like

00:37:08.059 --> 00:37:10.000
did a mock round and then would run straight

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:12.619
back and finish setting because I had like an

00:37:12.619 --> 00:37:14.780
hour -long break and that was like the only TC

00:37:14.780 --> 00:37:19.289
sessions And climbing training that I did leading

00:37:19.289 --> 00:37:23.289
up to team trials. And that was it. That was

00:37:23.289 --> 00:37:31.130
all I did. So I have no idea why. Yeah, I have

00:37:31.130 --> 00:37:32.929
all of my ideas about training have gone out

00:37:32.929 --> 00:37:36.650
the window. Because before that, I did four years

00:37:36.650 --> 00:37:41.769
of pretty much no work, just TC. And that was

00:37:41.769 --> 00:37:46.769
all I did. I just trained at the TC. three to

00:37:46.769 --> 00:37:52.809
four or five days a week for like years and was

00:37:52.809 --> 00:37:55.610
getting mediocre results. And then I stopped

00:37:55.610 --> 00:37:58.230
doing that and started climbing outside and setting.

00:37:58.530 --> 00:38:01.650
Well, I mean, I'm sure that those years still

00:38:01.650 --> 00:38:05.530
like paid off in a way. For sure. Yeah. It still

00:38:05.530 --> 00:38:09.769
helps you have that like baseline for sure. But

00:38:09.769 --> 00:38:12.769
yeah. Wow. That is crazy to hear. And it does

00:38:12.769 --> 00:38:16.230
still make me wonder like. How much better you

00:38:16.230 --> 00:38:18.590
would be if you had the same crazy training routine

00:38:18.590 --> 00:38:22.750
as a lot of people do. Yeah. I try not to think

00:38:22.750 --> 00:38:25.389
about that because currently I really need my

00:38:25.389 --> 00:38:28.849
job. Yeah. Unfortunately, money is an important

00:38:28.849 --> 00:38:32.309
part. Unless someone listening has another solution.

00:38:34.429 --> 00:38:39.550
Yeah. I need a job. Yeah. Unfortunately, life

00:38:39.550 --> 00:38:42.789
moves on and we all need a job to live as well.

00:38:43.050 --> 00:38:48.820
Yeah. Well, yeah. So going into a bit more about

00:38:48.820 --> 00:38:53.219
like World Cups and USA climbing as well. I heard

00:38:53.219 --> 00:38:55.599
in another interview that you actually prefer

00:38:55.599 --> 00:38:58.699
lead climbing, but you have only been doing bouldering.

00:38:58.820 --> 00:39:02.320
So what's what happened there? Yeah, that's a

00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:09.880
funny one. So for a couple of years, I trained

00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:13.380
almost exclusively lead. I would still boulder,

00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:19.230
but. I focused most of my effort on competition

00:39:19.230 --> 00:39:24.769
lead climbing. Year after year, I would show

00:39:24.769 --> 00:39:27.750
up to nationals and team trials in the best shape

00:39:27.750 --> 00:39:32.610
of my life and then not make the team and then

00:39:32.610 --> 00:39:34.909
make the team in bouldering. I'd be like, I guess

00:39:34.909 --> 00:39:36.869
we're doing another year of bouldering and then

00:39:36.869 --> 00:39:41.409
train all year for a lead and then show up and

00:39:41.409 --> 00:39:46.599
bomb. lead nationals and team trials and make

00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:49.219
the lead team like even this year like i said

00:39:49.219 --> 00:39:53.599
all of my training up till team trials was uh

00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:58.079
climbing outside on a rope like i i climbed outside

00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:03.139
on a rope for three or four months that was like

00:40:03.139 --> 00:40:05.860
all i did and i was in really good shape i think

00:40:05.860 --> 00:40:10.199
i was on like fourth or third place on a day

00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:14.429
in america As far as like the like ranking, I

00:40:14.429 --> 00:40:16.690
was like in really good shape. I had climbed

00:40:16.690 --> 00:40:21.170
a bunch of hard routes. I was super fit and super

00:40:21.170 --> 00:40:25.530
ready for lead team trials. And I got like 24th.

00:40:27.230 --> 00:40:29.510
And I was like, cool, that was team trials. And

00:40:29.510 --> 00:40:32.710
then I won that bouldering, which happened to

00:40:32.710 --> 00:40:36.210
be the only result that would have put me on

00:40:36.210 --> 00:40:38.269
the team. And so then I did bouldering World

00:40:38.269 --> 00:40:41.239
Cups again. Yeah, what do you think it was that

00:40:41.239 --> 00:40:45.500
makes you, I don't know, like, what's the word?

00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:52.739
Not, I can't think of a nice way to say it. I

00:40:52.739 --> 00:40:55.079
see there's not a nice way to say it. How to

00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:58.639
stop choking on League Clubs. Yeah, I don't know.

00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:02.260
I would love to figure that out because I think

00:41:02.260 --> 00:41:04.059
I could be quite good at League World Cups if

00:41:04.059 --> 00:41:07.500
I could figure it out. Yeah, I mean, that's exactly

00:41:07.500 --> 00:41:10.079
what it is. It's just like straight choking in

00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:16.579
the round. I think the thing that... I don't

00:41:16.579 --> 00:41:20.400
know how to mentally change it, but the two things

00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:25.679
that I think play into it are as far as bouldering

00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:29.199
goes, even in a World Cup, I don't feel like

00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:34.190
I have to do the really hard power boulder. You

00:41:34.190 --> 00:41:38.690
didn't have to do boulders. You never have to

00:41:38.690 --> 00:41:41.690
do the power boulder unless you want to win world

00:41:41.690 --> 00:41:45.710
championships. That was the only comp I can think

00:41:45.710 --> 00:41:50.710
of this year. Someone will correct me if I'm

00:41:50.710 --> 00:41:52.909
wrong. You had to do the power boulder if you

00:41:52.909 --> 00:41:58.949
needed to win. But as far as my goals go, I don't

00:41:58.949 --> 00:42:05.429
need to do the B14. And my strong suit is figuring

00:42:05.429 --> 00:42:13.429
out things fast and being good at easier boulders.

00:42:13.829 --> 00:42:17.829
So as far as World Cups go or competition rounds

00:42:17.829 --> 00:42:21.409
go, the boulders, unless you're in the power

00:42:21.409 --> 00:42:24.210
boulder, aren't that difficult. They're in my

00:42:24.210 --> 00:42:27.389
physical capability of doing them within four

00:42:27.389 --> 00:42:30.809
minutes. And so I think I excel at doing what

00:42:30.809 --> 00:42:34.030
I can do fast. and that's why i like do well

00:42:34.030 --> 00:42:38.929
in bouldering rounds um in lead climbing i think

00:42:38.929 --> 00:42:43.829
i do not excel at like flash attempts like i

00:42:43.829 --> 00:42:46.130
don't think that's my i'm really good at like

00:42:46.130 --> 00:42:49.510
projecting and much i like really enjoy climbing

00:42:49.510 --> 00:42:52.789
really hard things and like trying hard things

00:42:52.789 --> 00:42:54.730
for a long time and figuring out and being really

00:42:54.730 --> 00:42:56.769
fit and dealing with yeah really hard things

00:42:56.769 --> 00:43:01.500
but in like lead competitions it's like uh only

00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:04.639
one try and so it's like all just about flashing

00:43:04.639 --> 00:43:08.340
um and then the other thing that i think plays

00:43:08.340 --> 00:43:13.420
into it is the style of um lead climbing which

00:43:13.420 --> 00:43:17.800
is funny enough i think you have to be like really

00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:22.079
strong to be a lead climber because it's just

00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:25.860
more straightforward and so like for lead climbing

00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:30.719
it's like in competition They're like power enduro

00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:33.139
routes. They're short power enduro routes. And

00:43:33.139 --> 00:43:37.000
so you just have to be able to climb like 8C

00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:42.239
plus or 9A power routes first try. Which just

00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:45.539
means it's like Yannick excels in lead climbing

00:43:45.539 --> 00:43:48.280
because he's just one of the strongest dudes.

00:43:49.340 --> 00:43:52.699
Period. And so all he needs is a little bit of

00:43:52.699 --> 00:43:56.280
fitness and he can just power through these lead

00:43:56.280 --> 00:43:58.929
routes. And he'll argue about that for sure.

00:43:59.010 --> 00:44:01.530
I'm sure that he's like, no, I'm in lead shape.

00:44:01.610 --> 00:44:03.369
I've been lead climbing. But I'm like, no, dude.

00:44:04.050 --> 00:44:08.150
You're just stupidly strong. And so the moves

00:44:08.150 --> 00:44:11.449
are just easier for you. Where for me, I don't

00:44:11.449 --> 00:44:14.090
know. I just like short power indoor routes are

00:44:14.090 --> 00:44:18.309
not my go -to route. So I think it has a stack

00:44:18.309 --> 00:44:21.610
of things. It's like, A, short power indoor routes,

00:44:21.750 --> 00:44:25.210
not my thing. B, first try, also not my thing.

00:44:25.510 --> 00:44:29.860
C. I get stressed and choke. Yeah. So I guess

00:44:29.860 --> 00:44:32.219
it's interesting that I guess you don't really

00:44:32.219 --> 00:44:34.179
like consider yourself like a strong climber.

00:44:34.300 --> 00:44:37.119
I mean, I, I, it depends on who I'm comparing

00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:42.579
myself against because like there's some groups

00:44:42.579 --> 00:44:46.079
that I'm super, I feel super strong in, but like

00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:50.400
as far as like the overall world where we're

00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:52.559
comparing myself to like the best of the best,

00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:55.570
I don't think that I'm like. you know like i'm

00:44:55.570 --> 00:44:59.309
not climbing v17 right now i don't know maybe

00:44:59.309 --> 00:45:01.929
i'm strong but like and honestly this year too

00:45:01.929 --> 00:45:04.550
i feel a lot stronger than i have in the past

00:45:04.550 --> 00:45:07.829
like now i'm like oh i can do like the harder

00:45:07.829 --> 00:45:10.989
moves on the circuit given the right circumstance

00:45:10.989 --> 00:45:14.030
but so i guess i mean like you don't consider

00:45:14.030 --> 00:45:17.610
like you consider yourself um better at do or

00:45:17.610 --> 00:45:20.190
like learning movement compared to just like

00:45:20.190 --> 00:45:24.250
brute force strength kind of yeah yeah So I guess

00:45:24.250 --> 00:45:29.869
I find that maybe not like surprising, but I'm

00:45:29.869 --> 00:45:32.550
kind of wondering like how that plays into you

00:45:32.550 --> 00:45:36.090
also thinking that you prefer seeing more old

00:45:36.090 --> 00:45:38.829
school power boulders in terms of like setting.

00:45:39.269 --> 00:45:46.769
Yeah, it's a funny conundrum because it's not

00:45:46.769 --> 00:45:49.409
what I like will excel at, but I just really

00:45:49.409 --> 00:45:53.260
enjoy watching it. Okay. I just like really enjoy

00:45:53.260 --> 00:45:56.300
watching it. Climbing on it generally is a little

00:45:56.300 --> 00:45:59.059
bit less fun for me because like the straightforward

00:45:59.059 --> 00:46:01.760
climbing boulders we've had this year, I haven't

00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:04.940
been able to start. Like we had one in Innsbruck

00:46:04.940 --> 00:46:08.260
and I like couldn't start the boulder. But it

00:46:08.260 --> 00:46:10.340
was sick. I was like geeking on the mat. Like

00:46:10.340 --> 00:46:12.579
this is so sick, dude. It's like a drive -by

00:46:12.579 --> 00:46:15.380
to a 20 mil crib. This is so tight. But yeah,

00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:16.920
I know. I just like, I mean, I don't know. I've

00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:20.179
watched a lot of World Cups. I've been to a lot

00:46:20.179 --> 00:46:23.860
of comps. I've seen the sport like change and

00:46:23.860 --> 00:46:26.659
grow and go through all these different iterations.

00:46:27.940 --> 00:46:32.440
And so like it's not in my best interest, but

00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:36.619
I like just think that it's way cooler. And I'm

00:46:36.619 --> 00:46:39.860
not saying I don't like where the sport is now.

00:46:39.980 --> 00:46:42.780
I think that there's like some really cool movement

00:46:42.780 --> 00:46:45.860
going on and some really cool, like a lot of

00:46:45.860 --> 00:46:49.179
it's technology, like dual techs. thermal molded

00:46:49.179 --> 00:46:54.719
holds um like different forms of fiberglass really

00:46:54.719 --> 00:47:00.159
cool stuff but i think that it's like overwhelmingly

00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:04.760
in one direction and i would love to see some

00:47:04.760 --> 00:47:07.719
diversity in the climbing comp because like what

00:47:07.719 --> 00:47:11.900
made those jumps so sick is how different it

00:47:11.900 --> 00:47:14.510
was from like what we were used to seeing And

00:47:14.510 --> 00:47:17.630
it like, I mean, I watched the sport change over

00:47:17.630 --> 00:47:20.550
the last 20 years. Like I remember like when

00:47:20.550 --> 00:47:22.849
run jumps were like the thing and it was like

00:47:22.849 --> 00:47:25.789
so sick and like, dude, you can grab a jug and

00:47:25.789 --> 00:47:27.710
you can run across a bunch of volumes and this

00:47:27.710 --> 00:47:32.690
is so sick. And then like, then they were like,

00:47:32.730 --> 00:47:35.309
well, what if instead of going from a jug and

00:47:35.309 --> 00:47:37.230
then running across a bunch of volumes and grabbing

00:47:37.230 --> 00:47:40.269
a jug, the hold was directional. So you had to

00:47:40.269 --> 00:47:42.780
like run. cross a bunch of volumes and then grab

00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:45.500
a directional hold and then do some like weird

00:47:45.500 --> 00:47:47.860
thing with your hand where you had to grab like

00:47:47.860 --> 00:47:50.960
three holds or it was like two holds and then

00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:53.340
it was like what if we go four holds and then

00:47:53.340 --> 00:47:56.519
five holds and then what if we go like three

00:47:56.519 --> 00:47:59.119
holds this way but you can't stop so you have

00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:02.760
to go back to the right and like it was sick

00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:04.800
i like watched it happen and it's been really

00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:07.800
cool to watch and i love climbing on it but i

00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:12.070
feel like we're doing so much of that that there's

00:48:12.070 --> 00:48:16.889
like the other stuff has gotten left out. Like

00:48:16.889 --> 00:48:20.150
the example I gave was like just jumping to a

00:48:20.150 --> 00:48:22.590
pinch, just like square climbing on pinches.

00:48:22.610 --> 00:48:27.210
Like there was a boulder at ABS Nationals 15

00:48:27.210 --> 00:48:32.289
or 16 that Daniel went on, and it was like the

00:48:32.289 --> 00:48:34.829
orange Technic pinches. I think they're like

00:48:34.829 --> 00:48:38.780
the fatty, tall, long pinches. and I was like

00:48:38.780 --> 00:48:40.940
I would just give anything to see another one

00:48:40.940 --> 00:48:43.400
of those boulders on the wall just once just

00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:46.099
like you know one boulder in the season where

00:48:46.099 --> 00:48:49.179
it was just like grab pinch jump to pinch drive

00:48:49.179 --> 00:48:53.099
by to pinch or like more crimping I think that

00:48:53.099 --> 00:48:56.579
would be really cool like to like I mean show

00:48:56.579 --> 00:49:01.639
how far we will like count how many crimps we

00:49:01.639 --> 00:49:05.599
climb on in the season like oh yeah this world

00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:08.360
cup we grabbed a crimp And I feel like that's

00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:10.179
kind of a bummer where you're like, you can count

00:49:10.179 --> 00:49:12.039
on one hand, the amount of crimps you grabbed

00:49:12.039 --> 00:49:16.440
the whole competition. Like that feels like it's

00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:19.000
missing something. There's like a missing a little

00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:22.780
bit of diversity. And I like doing quarter moves

00:49:22.780 --> 00:49:26.019
and I like doing run across jumps and I like

00:49:26.019 --> 00:49:29.460
dual, I love dual techs, but I would also like

00:49:29.460 --> 00:49:32.559
to be challenged and like get the chance to see

00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:34.980
people climb on or get the opportunity to climb

00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:37.989
on. like frontal crimp climbing well do you feel

00:49:37.989 --> 00:49:39.789
like this year they've been setting a little

00:49:39.789 --> 00:49:42.230
bit more like old school boulders maybe or like

00:49:42.230 --> 00:49:44.869
power it's been getting better it's been getting

00:49:44.869 --> 00:49:48.409
better um i think the last podcast i went on

00:49:48.409 --> 00:49:50.650
was with gnarly right before the season started

00:49:50.650 --> 00:49:53.550
and i was like my predictions are we see some

00:49:53.550 --> 00:49:56.050
more rock climbing okay because i think i was

00:49:56.050 --> 00:49:58.630
hoping the sport would turn back that way and

00:49:58.630 --> 00:50:01.010
i didn't get to see as many as i wanted but i

00:50:01.010 --> 00:50:05.980
saw more which was really cool like um China,

00:50:05.980 --> 00:50:09.019
semi -final, blue boulder, just straight crimp

00:50:09.019 --> 00:50:12.280
rig. That was one of the sickest boulders all

00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:14.519
season for me to climb. I don't know. I was like

00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:17.400
really psyched. How was the separation on that

00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:19.500
one? I'm trying to remember. It was a long time

00:50:19.500 --> 00:50:27.079
ago. Kachow, semi -final, men, boulder, three.

00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:31.300
It had one, two flashes. Whoa, maybe not the

00:50:31.300 --> 00:50:34.360
best separation. Two flashes, which is crazy.

00:50:35.099 --> 00:50:38.639
So three tops, two flashes, one second attempt,

00:50:38.940 --> 00:50:41.519
and then a handful of zones, and then a bunch

00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:48.659
of no zones. And then boulder, two head. That's

00:50:48.659 --> 00:50:57.079
actually super sick. Me and Mejdi and Tomoa were

00:50:57.079 --> 00:50:58.840
the only people to flash the second boulder.

00:50:59.900 --> 00:51:03.369
That's wild. I thought that boulder was... I

00:51:03.369 --> 00:51:08.090
was like, this boulder is too easy. Okay. What

00:51:08.090 --> 00:51:11.070
kind of boulder was it? Do you remember? It was

00:51:11.070 --> 00:51:14.989
like a weird, it was like dual text press. And

00:51:14.989 --> 00:51:17.130
then you grabbed like a foot chip and jumped

00:51:17.130 --> 00:51:20.230
to, it was all squadra holds. And it was like

00:51:20.230 --> 00:51:25.050
dual text press. You grabbed like a no shadow,

00:51:25.309 --> 00:51:28.030
technically no shadow, and you like jumps to

00:51:28.030 --> 00:51:33.409
another squadra. It's a good set of these. Oh,

00:51:33.409 --> 00:51:39.449
okay. And then you did like a Lachey double clutch.

00:51:39.550 --> 00:51:43.789
It was like two words of those. You remember

00:51:43.789 --> 00:51:47.530
that one being easy? Yeah, I was like this. That

00:51:47.530 --> 00:51:50.769
was my chance to look at Colin and be like, dude,

00:51:50.789 --> 00:51:53.949
literally pink at BP. Like you couldn't not do

00:51:53.949 --> 00:51:56.510
that boulder. Yeah. It's impossible to fall in

00:51:56.510 --> 00:51:58.409
that boulder. He said that to me twice this year.

00:51:58.940 --> 00:52:02.840
Wow. Yeah. What's the dynamic there in terms

00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:09.280
of competitiveness? It's a great, great dynamic.

00:52:09.539 --> 00:52:15.019
I like that kid so much. I love that kid. I've

00:52:15.019 --> 00:52:18.440
been on the circuit with him for five years now,

00:52:18.579 --> 00:52:21.579
which has been really cool because I remember

00:52:21.579 --> 00:52:25.000
when he was 17 and just joined. It was his first

00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:28.019
year on the circuit. And at the point I was like

00:52:28.019 --> 00:52:31.500
21. I know it's like kind of it was like weird

00:52:31.500 --> 00:52:33.860
because he was like young and he was like 17.

00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:35.739
And so it's kind of awkward because I was like,

00:52:35.739 --> 00:52:39.199
this kid's literally a kid. I was like not even

00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:44.880
18 yet. And then like half in Seoul after the

00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:47.099
round was over and like the comp was done, we

00:52:47.099 --> 00:52:50.380
were like, we can like get a drink together.

00:52:50.420 --> 00:52:53.579
We're like both. over 21 and like adults and

00:52:53.579 --> 00:52:55.880
the comps over which was i was like oh this is

00:52:55.880 --> 00:52:57.639
like cool like i remember when you were a kid

00:52:57.639 --> 00:53:00.780
and now we're just like both adults and i just

00:53:00.780 --> 00:53:05.280
he's like such a sweet kid and like uh really

00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:07.380
thoughtful and i don't know yeah i really like

00:53:07.380 --> 00:53:11.360
and he like he meets me at the same level of

00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:15.539
like banter like i'm kind of i i can like kind

00:53:15.539 --> 00:53:17.320
of poke a little hard i'm like a little like

00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:20.750
i like to banter And he just like meets my banter

00:53:20.750 --> 00:53:24.190
at the same level and like will give me shit.

00:53:24.250 --> 00:53:26.309
And I like that because I don't know. I like

00:53:26.309 --> 00:53:29.369
people that give me shit. What do you feel like

00:53:29.369 --> 00:53:31.269
are the differences between your climbing styles?

00:53:32.269 --> 00:53:40.769
Well, he's just way better than me. Okay. He's

00:53:40.769 --> 00:53:45.349
really good at this like straight arm kind of

00:53:45.349 --> 00:53:49.719
climbing. He has probably the strongest three

00:53:49.719 --> 00:53:51.619
-finger drag that I've ever seen in my life.

00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:55.679
And he's also exceptionally good at coordination.

00:53:56.079 --> 00:53:59.219
I think I'm pretty good at coordination, and

00:53:59.219 --> 00:54:01.400
he's so much better at coordination than me.

00:54:02.360 --> 00:54:05.340
And he's also freakishly strong. I think Colin

00:54:05.340 --> 00:54:07.139
is one of the strongest dudes on the circuit.

00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:14.119
It doesn't always show, but he really is freakishly

00:54:14.119 --> 00:54:16.599
strong. And when he's able to, like, channel

00:54:16.599 --> 00:54:19.420
that, I think, like, he's one of the strongest

00:54:19.420 --> 00:54:21.179
dudes on the circuit. And, like, Bull, there's,

00:54:21.219 --> 00:54:23.699
like, that one in Cachao, like, he didn't do.

00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:26.699
And he was like, it's too hard. It doesn't go.

00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:29.340
But I think he, like, he was just, like, he was

00:54:29.340 --> 00:54:31.360
grabbing the hold wrong. Like, I watched him,

00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:33.239
like, take the hold as, like, a side pull instead

00:54:33.239 --> 00:54:36.000
of a down pull. Or a down pull instead of a side

00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:37.719
pull. And then the two dudes that did it, like,

00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:42.670
grabbed it the right way. And it's, like. small

00:54:42.670 --> 00:54:44.969
things like that. But I think he is like, he's,

00:54:44.969 --> 00:54:48.150
he's really, really strong. He's really good

00:54:48.150 --> 00:54:51.409
at coordination. And then the only difference,

00:54:51.429 --> 00:54:53.730
like not difference between us, but like one

00:54:53.730 --> 00:54:56.030
of the, I think the other differences is that

00:54:56.030 --> 00:55:01.030
I excel on slab, maybe less this year, but I

00:55:01.030 --> 00:55:04.369
do feel like I'm good slab climber. And I think

00:55:04.369 --> 00:55:07.269
that's maybe his weakness. And so that was like

00:55:07.269 --> 00:55:10.030
the one thing I maybe have on him is like a little

00:55:10.030 --> 00:55:13.010
bit better slab climbing. Okay. Moving on for

00:55:13.010 --> 00:55:15.849
now, I know throughout this interview, you've

00:55:15.849 --> 00:55:17.750
talked about like different holds that people

00:55:17.750 --> 00:55:21.710
use in the competitions and World Cups and local

00:55:21.710 --> 00:55:25.170
competitions as well. I think that makes sense

00:55:25.170 --> 00:55:26.829
because you do a lot of hold shaping yourself.

00:55:27.590 --> 00:55:31.130
How did you get into that? So Quincy, the kid

00:55:31.130 --> 00:55:35.210
I talked about from my school, him and his dad

00:55:35.210 --> 00:55:37.130
used to make climbing holds. And that's just

00:55:37.130 --> 00:55:39.010
kind of a fun thing. They had a home wall. And

00:55:39.010 --> 00:55:40.829
so they'd make climbing holds for their home

00:55:40.829 --> 00:55:43.849
wall. And we had a play date because we were

00:55:43.849 --> 00:55:46.010
10 and that's what you do when you're 10. Cute.

00:55:46.309 --> 00:55:49.510
I miss play dates so bad. Well, you can still

00:55:49.510 --> 00:55:52.150
do them. Yeah, right? I feel like we should start

00:55:52.150 --> 00:55:54.809
adult play dates. But yeah, I went over to his

00:55:54.809 --> 00:55:56.389
house and we made climbing holds and I was like,

00:55:56.449 --> 00:56:00.809
this is the sickest thing ever. And as I do,

00:56:00.949 --> 00:56:02.690
immediately fell in love with it and was like,

00:56:02.809 --> 00:56:09.050
I want to do this all the time. So that was how

00:56:09.050 --> 00:56:16.059
I got into it. I pretty much just annoyed everyone

00:56:16.059 --> 00:56:19.659
that would tolerate me to teach me how to make

00:56:19.659 --> 00:56:23.860
climbing holds. We started a hold company that

00:56:23.860 --> 00:56:25.940
never went anywhere. And then I started another

00:56:25.940 --> 00:56:29.579
hold company with another buddy, which went a

00:56:29.579 --> 00:56:33.519
little farther. We sold holds to some friends

00:56:33.519 --> 00:56:35.559
for their home wall and then some to the climbing

00:56:35.559 --> 00:56:41.659
gym. And then I met Ty Foos at... bouldering

00:56:41.659 --> 00:56:45.139
nationals and just bugged him and we ended up

00:56:45.139 --> 00:56:47.400
becoming really good friends and he like taught

00:56:47.400 --> 00:56:50.579
me a bunch of stuff and then I bugged Ian from

00:56:50.579 --> 00:56:54.539
Kilter for like I would just message him online

00:56:54.539 --> 00:56:58.380
all of the time just asking all these stupid

00:56:58.380 --> 00:57:02.179
questions and like he let me come over and he

00:57:02.179 --> 00:57:05.039
let me shape and then when I moved to Salt Lake

00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:11.539
City I met Jared at Pusher and just like I wouldn't

00:57:11.539 --> 00:57:17.079
leave him alone. It's like constantly bugging

00:57:17.079 --> 00:57:19.440
him. And it was like, I think I went over there

00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:22.579
to climb with Nathaniel and I just spent the

00:57:22.579 --> 00:57:24.820
whole time Nathaniel was climbing, just talking

00:57:24.820 --> 00:57:27.579
to Jared about shapes. I like always had had

00:57:27.579 --> 00:57:31.760
a fascination with pusher. So I was just like

00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:34.019
geeked to be there and like meet Jared. I was

00:57:34.019 --> 00:57:36.960
like, it was like way cooler than meeting any

00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:41.219
of my climbing idols. I was so psyched. I was

00:57:41.219 --> 00:57:45.519
geeked out of my mind and spent four hours talking

00:57:45.519 --> 00:57:46.940
to him about climbing holds. He was like, you

00:57:46.940 --> 00:57:48.380
can come over whenever you want. I was like,

00:57:48.400 --> 00:57:51.639
cool. The next day, I was like, hey, can I come

00:57:51.639 --> 00:57:58.320
over? He let me shape some holds for him, which

00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:03.179
we ended up making. I just kept coming over and

00:58:03.179 --> 00:58:05.360
shaping and bugging him and climbing and shaping

00:58:05.360 --> 00:58:08.429
and bugging him. We became good friends. And

00:58:08.429 --> 00:58:10.610
so eventually he gave me a key because he was

00:58:10.610 --> 00:58:14.210
like, this doesn't make sense for me to be here

00:58:14.210 --> 00:58:17.210
all the time when you're here. He'd keep texting

00:58:17.210 --> 00:58:19.510
me at 10 o 'clock at night if he could come shape.

00:58:19.590 --> 00:58:24.130
So here's a key. And so I would just go over

00:58:24.130 --> 00:58:29.570
there all the time at crazy hours of the night

00:58:29.570 --> 00:58:33.630
and shape away. And we just became really good

00:58:33.630 --> 00:58:37.500
friends, me and Jared and Kevin. are like super

00:58:37.500 --> 00:58:39.539
tight now consider them both like some of my

00:58:39.539 --> 00:58:44.800
best friends um and yeah they're like really

00:58:44.800 --> 00:58:47.460
good dudes well so like what makes a good hold

00:58:47.460 --> 00:58:52.940
for you that's a good question um i remember

00:58:52.940 --> 00:58:55.880
you asked me this last time and i didn't have

00:58:55.880 --> 00:58:58.980
a good answer and i still don't have a good answer

00:58:58.980 --> 00:59:02.900
i i have a much better answer of what makes a

00:59:02.900 --> 00:59:06.559
bad hold Okay, go for that. Yeah, love to hear

00:59:06.559 --> 00:59:12.599
that too. There are bad holds because they're

00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:16.780
in attention to detail and done sloppily. And

00:59:16.780 --> 00:59:19.840
then there are really good holds that also have

00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:22.119
very little attention to detail and done really

00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:25.679
sloppily. But maybe it's the attention to detail.

00:59:26.300 --> 00:59:29.280
And I'm going to try not to call anyone out by

00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:34.840
name. But there's some... Really, really good

00:59:34.840 --> 00:59:39.599
hold companies would make fantastic, revolutionizing

00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:46.800
shapes, revolutionary shapes that are done in

00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:50.139
the lowest quality ever. Not the lowest quality,

00:59:50.280 --> 00:59:57.159
but it's really funny to see the attention to

00:59:57.159 --> 01:00:00.500
detail that just isn't there on the small things.

01:00:02.030 --> 01:00:05.550
But the hold itself is absolutely amazing. And

01:00:05.550 --> 01:00:08.489
is one of my favorite holds. And there's a lot

01:00:08.489 --> 01:00:13.570
of them. But a good example is dual techs. You

01:00:13.570 --> 01:00:16.409
can tell how much time someone spent and the

01:00:16.409 --> 01:00:19.269
level of craftsmanship because of dual techs.

01:00:21.369 --> 01:00:24.349
I don't know if I have any dual techs holds in

01:00:24.349 --> 01:00:26.969
my room right now. I don't have any good examples

01:00:26.969 --> 01:00:30.110
of this. But there's different ways to do a dual

01:00:30.110 --> 01:00:32.500
techs. And you can kind of tell on the whole

01:00:32.500 --> 01:00:36.940
how they did the dual techs. You can either do

01:00:36.940 --> 01:00:41.119
it on the foam before you mold it or after you

01:00:41.119 --> 01:00:45.659
mold it and then you can remold it again. And

01:00:45.659 --> 01:00:50.019
you can either do it by taking material away

01:00:50.019 --> 01:00:53.760
or adding material. And you can tell what material,

01:00:54.039 --> 01:00:58.119
like at least I can tell how they did it. And

01:00:58.119 --> 01:01:05.900
like Jared. is one of the most meticulous craftsmen

01:01:05.900 --> 01:01:10.039
I've ever seen. His attention to detail was insane

01:01:10.039 --> 01:01:17.500
and spectacular, which I think makes him a really,

01:01:17.619 --> 01:01:21.480
really good hold shaper. And you can tell from

01:01:21.480 --> 01:01:25.019
looking at his holds the level of craftsmanship.

01:01:25.980 --> 01:01:27.880
I'll shape a hold and I'll be done with it. And

01:01:27.880 --> 01:01:29.199
I'll be like, look at this hold that's ready

01:01:29.199 --> 01:01:31.960
to be molded. And he's like, it needs two more

01:01:31.960 --> 01:01:34.139
hours because you didn't do this and this and

01:01:34.139 --> 01:01:37.860
there's a bump here. He's like, I'll think a

01:01:37.860 --> 01:01:39.639
hold's done and I'm ready to mold it. And he's

01:01:39.639 --> 01:01:41.679
just like, it's not even close to done. Small

01:01:41.679 --> 01:01:48.579
things. Once he's drilled the holes where the

01:01:48.579 --> 01:01:50.139
bolt is going to go and the screw's going to

01:01:50.139 --> 01:01:53.320
go, he'll go back in and round off the edges.

01:01:54.539 --> 01:01:58.320
and clean it up so that when you like put your

01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:02.460
thumb in the hold it's not a sharp or hard edge

01:02:02.460 --> 01:02:06.000
it's like a rounded like smooth edge and we'll

01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:10.420
blend the dual tex into the bolt hole so that

01:02:10.420 --> 01:02:12.519
like when you put your thumb in the bolt hole

01:02:12.519 --> 01:02:14.960
you don't slip out you like or you do slip out

01:02:14.960 --> 01:02:18.440
whereas like some people will like dual tex the

01:02:18.440 --> 01:02:21.079
hole drill the hole shift it off and mail it

01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:23.139
and then it comes back and it's this dual text

01:02:23.139 --> 01:02:25.900
hold that has this sharp in -cut edge where your

01:02:25.900 --> 01:02:31.300
thumb goes um small things like that flat hold

01:02:31.300 --> 01:02:35.960
also um like i have so much infinite respect

01:02:35.960 --> 01:02:39.239
for them as well because their attention to detail

01:02:39.239 --> 01:02:42.880
and craftsmanship is like also on that same level

01:02:42.880 --> 01:02:47.000
um and like they're what when they release something

01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:52.099
it's done really well and with a lot of thought

01:02:52.099 --> 01:02:58.239
and uh intention and so like they make really

01:02:58.239 --> 01:03:02.320
good holds made really well and i think that's

01:03:02.320 --> 01:03:04.099
like an idea versus like some other companies

01:03:04.099 --> 01:03:06.059
make really cool holds that are like really good

01:03:06.059 --> 01:03:08.659
shapes but done really fast and they're like

01:03:08.659 --> 01:03:11.420
oh just like uh put a thing of dual text there

01:03:11.420 --> 01:03:14.500
so you can't step on it wow so like with the

01:03:14.940 --> 01:03:18.119
The bolt hold dual -tex thing, is that done individually

01:03:18.119 --> 01:03:21.519
per hold that comes out? No, no, no. That's all

01:03:21.519 --> 01:03:24.519
on the master. Oh, okay. Gotcha. And so you can

01:03:24.519 --> 01:03:31.960
do it on the plastic, and then basically you'd

01:03:31.960 --> 01:03:37.780
mold the hold, you'd dual -tex it, and then you'd

01:03:37.780 --> 01:03:41.639
mold it again. Or you can do it on the foam and

01:03:41.639 --> 01:03:44.519
then mold that. And they have different pros

01:03:44.519 --> 01:03:47.559
and cons. They look different. And you can tell

01:03:47.559 --> 01:03:49.659
when you, like, look at a hold closely whether

01:03:49.659 --> 01:03:54.119
it was, like, if the Dualtex, like, blends into

01:03:54.119 --> 01:03:57.000
the plastic, you can tell it was done on, like,

01:03:57.460 --> 01:04:00.179
a plastic hold. Versus, like, if there's a hard

01:04:00.179 --> 01:04:02.739
edge, you can tell that, like, that means that

01:04:02.739 --> 01:04:05.639
the Dualtex was, like, done on the foam and then

01:04:05.639 --> 01:04:08.760
molded. And then there's, like, a whole category

01:04:08.760 --> 01:04:12.670
of holds. which I would consider bad holds. These

01:04:12.670 --> 01:04:14.389
are all good holds. These are all the things,

01:04:14.469 --> 01:04:16.670
like the differences in like hold companies that

01:04:16.670 --> 01:04:19.349
make really good holds. And then there's the

01:04:19.349 --> 01:04:24.010
companies that make bad holds that I like don't

01:04:24.010 --> 01:04:25.869
even know how to explain, but they're just like

01:04:25.869 --> 01:04:28.010
a waste of plastic. And every time I see them,

01:04:28.010 --> 01:04:30.389
I'm just like, I can't believe you're just, anyone's

01:04:30.389 --> 01:04:32.889
allowed to make a climbing hold company. Yeah.

01:04:33.409 --> 01:04:35.630
Like that's one of the questions I ask myself

01:04:35.630 --> 01:04:38.389
frequently. I'm like, I can't believe that someone

01:04:38.389 --> 01:04:41.460
decided. that it was worth their money to mold

01:04:41.460 --> 01:04:45.159
this. And then someone spent their money to buy

01:04:45.159 --> 01:04:48.860
it, which is crazy. Is it like ergonomics or

01:04:48.860 --> 01:04:52.360
just like a shave that's already been done or

01:04:52.360 --> 01:04:55.019
like what is it? So that's really annoying. When

01:04:55.019 --> 01:04:56.699
someone does a hold that's already been done

01:04:56.699 --> 01:04:59.340
and doesn't do their own thing to it, that's

01:04:59.340 --> 01:05:01.980
annoying, especially when they don't do a good

01:05:01.980 --> 01:05:06.719
job. But most of it is like ergonomics or...

01:05:08.269 --> 01:05:10.329
Something I see a lot of which I really don't

01:05:10.329 --> 01:05:12.789
like is really poorly done rock texture holds.

01:05:13.309 --> 01:05:16.190
So like there's a lot of companies that make

01:05:16.190 --> 01:05:20.150
rock textured holds that don't actually look

01:05:20.150 --> 01:05:22.210
like rock texture and are kind of uncomfortable

01:05:22.210 --> 01:05:25.789
to grab because they have this like natural look

01:05:25.789 --> 01:05:29.510
to them. And like they're A, not artistic to

01:05:29.510 --> 01:05:32.929
look at. And B, they're like really unfun to

01:05:32.929 --> 01:05:35.510
grab. They're kind of like kind of uncomfortable.

01:05:36.090 --> 01:05:39.280
And I'm sure like... If you go to the gym and

01:05:39.280 --> 01:05:41.920
look at some holds, you can tell the difference

01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:46.079
between... When you look at Jared's sandstone,

01:05:46.199 --> 01:05:50.500
it looks like a piece of Joe's is on the wall.

01:05:51.639 --> 01:05:54.059
And then if you look at some other companies,

01:05:54.280 --> 01:06:00.980
like Rock Texture, it's like... I don't know

01:06:00.980 --> 01:06:04.800
what that is, but I don't want to grab it. And

01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:10.860
like... the like both kilter and uh pusher I

01:06:10.860 --> 01:06:14.079
think do a really good job of making like fun

01:06:14.079 --> 01:06:16.340
like ergonomic and they do it differently like

01:06:16.340 --> 01:06:20.019
Ian has his own style but like he does a really

01:06:20.019 --> 01:06:23.280
good job with the sandstone and the granite texture

01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:27.099
um and like he has his style and Jared has his

01:06:27.099 --> 01:06:29.780
style and they're both like do a really good

01:06:29.780 --> 01:06:32.340
job with it Ian is also very meticulous and like

01:06:32.340 --> 01:06:38.699
very um uh, just like Jared, it's not, it's not

01:06:38.699 --> 01:06:42.239
OCD, but it is OCD about like every detail has

01:06:42.239 --> 01:06:45.800
to be perfect. And I think that's important because

01:06:45.800 --> 01:06:47.980
when you can blow the hold and put it on your

01:06:47.980 --> 01:06:50.239
website and sell it and like give it to hundreds

01:06:50.239 --> 01:06:53.099
of thousands of people and like it potentially

01:06:53.099 --> 01:06:55.480
is going to be something that people will climb

01:06:55.480 --> 01:06:57.519
on for the next like a hundred years and will

01:06:57.519 --> 01:06:59.739
like, like the, the boss is like was made in

01:06:59.739 --> 01:07:03.730
the eighties and It's still a hold that is on

01:07:03.730 --> 01:07:06.690
people's wall. Can you describe which one that

01:07:06.690 --> 01:07:10.190
is real quick? The boss looks like a brain. It's

01:07:10.190 --> 01:07:13.690
the old, it's like the big sloper that's this

01:07:13.690 --> 01:07:17.010
big. And it's got the font bubbles on the top.

01:07:17.289 --> 01:07:19.550
And then like the brain divot in the middle.

01:07:20.289 --> 01:07:23.190
And that was like the first big sloper feature.

01:07:24.250 --> 01:07:26.510
And Pusher was like the first. They were the

01:07:26.510 --> 01:07:30.969
first of a lot of things. It was like they really

01:07:30.969 --> 01:07:35.510
did. do a lot of firsts um but the boss is like

01:07:35.510 --> 01:07:38.269
maybe one of the most recognizable famous holds

01:07:38.269 --> 01:07:43.130
um not holds gonna be famous for you know it's

01:07:43.130 --> 01:07:46.550
like timeless hold anytime you make a hold like

01:07:46.550 --> 01:07:49.710
everything you all the little divots or like

01:07:49.710 --> 01:07:52.170
little birthmarks and like all these little things

01:07:52.170 --> 01:07:54.829
that you don't take care of will be there forever

01:07:54.829 --> 01:07:58.570
um the bubble wraps another like iconic hold

01:07:58.570 --> 01:08:02.420
that will like always be around. There will always

01:08:02.420 --> 01:08:04.639
be bubble wrap holds and they'll always be sick.

01:08:04.820 --> 01:08:07.679
I set a boulder with the bubble wrap holds Thursday

01:08:07.679 --> 01:08:11.019
and they're still sick. The bubble wrap looks

01:08:11.019 --> 01:08:14.440
like a pie. It's like a half moon and it's got

01:08:14.440 --> 01:08:18.079
little tiny bubbles on the top of it. Honestly,

01:08:18.079 --> 01:08:21.500
I hate these holds. Really? I love the bubble

01:08:21.500 --> 01:08:24.880
wrap. It's a texture thing for me and the fact

01:08:24.880 --> 01:08:30.739
that I'm bad at climbing basically. Actually,

01:08:30.819 --> 01:08:35.340
so Ty shaped the bubble wrap. And it doesn't

01:08:35.340 --> 01:08:37.319
exist anymore, but he showed me one of the times

01:08:37.319 --> 01:08:41.300
I went to Waco the first bubble wrap hold that

01:08:41.300 --> 01:08:43.819
he ever shaped. And it's cool because it has

01:08:43.819 --> 01:08:46.239
a little rock texture in it, like when he first

01:08:46.239 --> 01:08:52.859
made it. He added some cracks into it. But essentially,

01:08:52.979 --> 01:08:56.340
I think the story goes like he was setting a

01:08:56.340 --> 01:08:59.119
bunch of comms at the time, and Chris Sharma...

01:08:59.449 --> 01:09:03.109
and somebody else were competing and they were

01:09:03.109 --> 01:09:05.489
always tying. They would always either fall or

01:09:05.489 --> 01:09:07.970
they would send the roo. And he was sick of them

01:09:07.970 --> 01:09:10.289
tying. So he's like, I need to come up with something

01:09:10.289 --> 01:09:12.890
that will separate them. And so he shaped the

01:09:12.890 --> 01:09:16.569
bubble wrap, which was probably the first hold

01:09:16.569 --> 01:09:21.029
to really make you fumble around to get the right

01:09:21.029 --> 01:09:22.989
spot. When you grab a bubble wrap, you can't

01:09:22.989 --> 01:09:28.109
just slap to it. You need to take it right. And

01:09:28.109 --> 01:09:30.130
so he shaped the bubble wrap so that you had

01:09:30.130 --> 01:09:32.949
to take it in the right position and grab it.

01:09:33.189 --> 01:09:35.149
Just like when you're climbing outside, you will

01:09:35.149 --> 01:09:37.189
grab a hold and fiddle around to get the right

01:09:37.189 --> 01:09:41.829
bubbles. And sure enough, Chris jumped to the

01:09:41.829 --> 01:09:43.850
hold and was like, and then jumped to the next

01:09:43.850 --> 01:09:45.590
hold and did the route and won. And then the

01:09:45.590 --> 01:09:48.130
next guy came out and jumped to the hold and

01:09:48.130 --> 01:09:51.729
grabbed it and tried to keep grabbing it and

01:09:51.729 --> 01:09:53.729
was bumping around on it and then didn't do the

01:09:53.729 --> 01:09:56.770
next move. So it ended up separating them. I

01:09:56.770 --> 01:09:58.310
could keep talking about cotton poults forever.

01:09:58.789 --> 01:10:01.970
Well, okay. I guess big one that a lot of people

01:10:01.970 --> 01:10:04.590
have been talking about more recently. How do

01:10:04.590 --> 01:10:07.510
you feel about no -tax holds? Oh, I love no -tax

01:10:07.510 --> 01:10:14.050
holds. Nice. I have a huge issue with the rules

01:10:14.050 --> 01:10:22.109
around no -tax holds. I actually have a big frustration.

01:10:24.390 --> 01:10:28.289
They released the no -text volts. Climbers adapted,

01:10:28.590 --> 01:10:31.409
which included spitting and licking on your hands

01:10:31.409 --> 01:10:34.229
because when you have moist hands, you stick

01:10:34.229 --> 01:10:37.409
to the no -text better. Then the next season

01:10:37.409 --> 01:10:42.489
rolled around and they started setting these

01:10:42.489 --> 01:10:44.869
boulders because it's a new technology. So it's

01:10:44.869 --> 01:10:48.210
like, what can we do? So they started to introduce

01:10:48.210 --> 01:10:55.229
changes of like... state right so it's like you

01:10:55.229 --> 01:10:58.670
start on fiberglass and then you move to clear

01:10:58.670 --> 01:11:01.369
holds or you start on clear holds and then you

01:11:01.369 --> 01:11:04.689
move to fiberglass which are completely different

01:11:04.689 --> 01:11:07.510
states like for fiberglass you need really dry

01:11:07.510 --> 01:11:12.050
skin and for plastic uh it's dual text you need

01:11:12.050 --> 01:11:15.909
really like uh tacky moist skin so essentially

01:11:15.909 --> 01:11:19.029
like if you like missed your hands and then let

01:11:19.029 --> 01:11:21.590
them dry for a second that's like really the

01:11:21.590 --> 01:11:24.510
tacky feeling you want or like if you lick your

01:11:24.510 --> 01:11:28.270
fingers and then let them dry for a minute but

01:11:28.270 --> 01:11:30.989
then competitors were like licking their fingers

01:11:30.989 --> 01:11:33.789
and like bringing out bottles of spray and like

01:11:33.789 --> 01:11:36.470
you know essentially adapting to this new thing

01:11:36.470 --> 01:11:40.649
and so the ifsc introduced rules now where like

01:11:40.649 --> 01:11:42.590
you're not allowed to lick your hands or spit

01:11:42.590 --> 01:11:47.170
on your hands which like i get it's kind of a

01:11:47.170 --> 01:11:52.350
biohazard ish and i know that some people are

01:11:52.350 --> 01:11:57.210
like ew that's gross germs illness whatever but

01:11:57.210 --> 01:12:01.989
like on the other hand all of those germs and

01:12:01.989 --> 01:12:05.289
stuff still exist on the wall anyways like you

01:12:05.289 --> 01:12:08.109
sneezing and like wash you know going to like

01:12:08.109 --> 01:12:10.989
all of like these germs are all still just right

01:12:10.989 --> 01:12:14.670
there and you're still like climbing like if

01:12:14.670 --> 01:12:17.710
like i don't know if i were to climb on a boulder

01:12:18.189 --> 01:12:20.130
the last thing I want to do is lick my hands

01:12:20.130 --> 01:12:23.029
after I like like I've already gotten all the

01:12:23.029 --> 01:12:26.369
germs and so like if I were someone else with

01:12:26.369 --> 01:12:28.369
a spit on their hands and then climbing a boulder

01:12:28.369 --> 01:12:31.489
before me I don't think there's any more germs

01:12:31.489 --> 01:12:35.409
than there already was like with like people

01:12:35.409 --> 01:12:37.409
stepping and whatever in their climbing shoe

01:12:37.409 --> 01:12:38.930
and then putting their climbing shoe on those

01:12:38.930 --> 01:12:41.489
holds like I don't know what's on your like I'm

01:12:41.489 --> 01:12:43.810
more concerned what's on your feet than what's

01:12:43.810 --> 01:12:48.600
on the like wall yeah I have another tangent

01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:51.880
that I'm probably will get into, but essentially

01:12:51.880 --> 01:12:55.239
it's been really frustrating with me because

01:12:55.239 --> 01:12:58.859
I like me. I don't know. I feel like I want all

01:12:58.859 --> 01:13:00.579
of the advantage I can have. And it was really

01:13:00.579 --> 01:13:04.600
frustrating for me to like, then now dual tech

01:13:04.600 --> 01:13:07.439
slash fiberglass or kind of like, it's like,

01:13:07.520 --> 01:13:11.920
how, what is your skin? Like, what are your genetics?

01:13:12.460 --> 01:13:15.659
Well, I mean, you can still bring a spray. You're

01:13:15.659 --> 01:13:18.359
not allowed to spray your hands before anymore.

01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:20.920
Oh, really? Your hands have to be dry before

01:13:20.920 --> 01:13:23.520
you get on the boulder. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah.

01:13:24.159 --> 01:13:26.239
I didn't know that. And so, like, it's still

01:13:26.239 --> 01:13:28.600
a fair playing field technically, but it just

01:13:28.600 --> 01:13:30.779
was, like, really frustrating all season for

01:13:30.779 --> 01:13:33.159
me because they introduced it in, like, the first

01:13:33.159 --> 01:13:36.960
comp. And then sure enough, I, like, turn around

01:13:36.960 --> 01:13:41.079
and it's, like, fiberglass start and then palm

01:13:41.079 --> 01:13:45.020
pressing on, like, no techs. And they're like,

01:13:45.079 --> 01:13:47.300
you can't spit on your hand. I'm like, I really

01:13:47.300 --> 01:13:51.260
want to like do the palm press mantle and then

01:13:51.260 --> 01:13:54.060
spit on my hands and get them wet and then be

01:13:54.060 --> 01:13:58.500
able to stick to these clear holds. It just was

01:13:58.500 --> 01:14:00.579
like kind of, I don't know. I have beef with

01:14:00.579 --> 01:14:03.300
it. But the holds themselves. No, the holds themselves

01:14:03.300 --> 01:14:06.399
are cool. They're a little overused. Less so

01:14:06.399 --> 01:14:11.199
now, but it's just like I'm a little tired of

01:14:11.199 --> 01:14:13.680
being asked if I can hold on to a slippery jug.

01:14:14.590 --> 01:14:19.869
Okay. Like, I've done, it's been asked a lot

01:14:19.869 --> 01:14:23.289
now. It's like, oh, like every company now makes,

01:14:23.390 --> 01:14:25.270
and I think I want to make some dual tech holds

01:14:25.270 --> 01:14:27.750
too. Like I have a different idea what I want

01:14:27.750 --> 01:14:31.250
to do with them. But like the slippery jug, I'm

01:14:31.250 --> 01:14:35.850
kind of tired of grabbing. It's like, can you

01:14:35.850 --> 01:14:39.270
hold on to a, can you make your hands wet before

01:14:39.270 --> 01:14:41.670
you grab this jug? Is the question. It's like,

01:14:41.750 --> 01:14:43.789
how much do you sweat? Yeah, I didn't know that

01:14:43.789 --> 01:14:46.989
you weren't allowed to use sprays either. I thought

01:14:46.989 --> 01:14:50.029
I saw people using those. You can spray your

01:14:50.029 --> 01:14:52.069
hands, but then they have to be dry before you

01:14:52.069 --> 01:14:53.529
get on the wall. And this was a change before

01:14:53.529 --> 01:14:57.470
Korea. So Brazil, they introduced you're not

01:14:57.470 --> 01:14:59.369
allowed to spit on your hands or lick your hands.

01:15:00.149 --> 01:15:03.409
Okay. Which I can see why if you're on live stream,

01:15:03.529 --> 01:15:05.729
it could potentially be like, I'm sure that like

01:15:05.729 --> 01:15:09.380
Jakob Schubert licking his hand. in the world

01:15:09.380 --> 01:15:11.979
jameson burn like went super viral and they're

01:15:11.979 --> 01:15:15.119
like this is a media disaster you can't do that

01:15:15.119 --> 01:15:20.060
anymore and then my so and honestly like i'm

01:15:20.060 --> 01:15:23.859
probably i don't know if they if like i'm the

01:15:23.859 --> 01:15:27.380
reason they they'd made this rule about the spray

01:15:27.380 --> 01:15:30.859
but i'm sure that i made the point that is probably

01:15:30.859 --> 01:15:35.289
made the rule is that like I was like, all right,

01:15:35.289 --> 01:15:37.229
well, I'm just going to soak my hands and then

01:15:37.229 --> 01:15:41.210
pull on a fiberglass hold. If I'm not doing a

01:15:41.210 --> 01:15:43.489
boulder, and I know I'm not doing the boulder,

01:15:43.550 --> 01:15:45.710
my last go, soak my hands, pull on the hole,

01:15:45.869 --> 01:15:49.470
make it so no one else can climb on it. Did you

01:15:49.470 --> 01:15:55.210
do that? No, but I talked about doing it openly

01:15:55.210 --> 01:15:58.170
in ISO. It wasn't like, ha, ha, ha, this is this

01:15:58.170 --> 01:16:00.510
trick I'm going to do. I was just like, well,

01:16:00.550 --> 01:16:01.590
I'm going to do that. And everyone was like,

01:16:01.670 --> 01:16:03.739
well, you can't do that. And I'm like. Tell me

01:16:03.739 --> 01:16:05.680
why I can't do that. And they're like, but it's

01:16:05.680 --> 01:16:07.659
cheating. And I'm like, then why are you allowed

01:16:07.659 --> 01:16:09.779
to spray your hands before you grab the dual

01:16:09.779 --> 01:16:14.420
text hold? You can't tell me that I can spray

01:16:14.420 --> 01:16:16.500
my hands for certain boulders, but I can't for

01:16:16.500 --> 01:16:19.699
other boulders. If I'm allowed to spray my hands,

01:16:19.899 --> 01:16:22.279
I'm allowed to spray them as much as I want,

01:16:22.439 --> 01:16:24.979
and I should be allowed to spray them on whatever

01:16:24.979 --> 01:16:27.359
boulder I want. And it's one of those cheeky

01:16:27.359 --> 01:16:30.619
things I say. We talked about this before the

01:16:30.619 --> 01:16:33.949
podcast. I'll say outlandish things just to kind

01:16:33.949 --> 01:16:36.989
of get a rise out of people. And I'm also like

01:16:36.989 --> 01:16:41.050
very anti, I don't like being told what I can

01:16:41.050 --> 01:16:44.109
and cannot do unless you can tell me a good reason

01:16:44.109 --> 01:16:47.270
why and like a logical reason why. I don't like

01:16:47.270 --> 01:16:50.510
rules or laws that don't have logic behind them.

01:16:50.930 --> 01:16:53.489
And if you can logistically tell me a reason

01:16:53.489 --> 01:16:55.470
why I shouldn't be doing something, then I'm

01:16:55.470 --> 01:16:58.130
happy to follow the rule. But if it's just based

01:16:58.130 --> 01:17:02.720
on feelings. Or if it's not a fair, like, legit,

01:17:02.800 --> 01:17:06.079
logical rule, I don't like it. And so that was

01:17:06.079 --> 01:17:09.140
like, I was like, okay, well, like, there's no

01:17:09.140 --> 01:17:11.439
reason I can't spray my hands right before I

01:17:11.439 --> 01:17:14.000
do, like, some kind of friction -dependent boulder,

01:17:14.119 --> 01:17:17.539
get it wet, and then the next person's bummed.

01:17:18.119 --> 01:17:20.220
And they're like, but it's unfair, it's treated.

01:17:20.300 --> 01:17:22.220
I'm like, I know, but it's just, right now, the

01:17:22.220 --> 01:17:25.000
rules allow it. And so that's why they probably

01:17:25.000 --> 01:17:27.159
changed the rules. That makes sense why that

01:17:27.159 --> 01:17:30.039
rule is that wet. It's a bummer because now they

01:17:30.039 --> 01:17:32.100
have introduced these like holds that are friction

01:17:32.100 --> 01:17:34.319
dependent or non -friction dependent. And then

01:17:34.319 --> 01:17:36.819
the setters will set boulders that are like paddle

01:17:36.819 --> 01:17:40.859
dyno to paddle. Like it's like, you know, friction

01:17:40.859 --> 01:17:43.960
dependent slope remove to dual text jug. And

01:17:43.960 --> 01:17:45.720
you're like, okay, I have to pick which one I

01:17:45.720 --> 01:17:49.319
want to be bad on. And that I don't like because

01:17:49.319 --> 01:17:51.579
I'm just frustrated that it's like you have to

01:17:51.579 --> 01:17:54.819
take a state. Yeah. I want to be able to change

01:17:54.819 --> 01:17:57.689
my state mid boulder. I mean, I guess the reason

01:17:57.689 --> 01:18:02.590
why they wouldn't want you to just ruin the climb

01:18:02.590 --> 01:18:05.430
for everyone else is just because it looks bad

01:18:05.430 --> 01:18:08.149
in terms of sportsmanship, I guess. No, exactly.

01:18:08.470 --> 01:18:13.189
I mean, I think that will make sense. And that's

01:18:13.189 --> 01:18:14.930
part of why I said it, too, is I was like, there's

01:18:14.930 --> 01:18:19.029
this gaping. And obviously, I think I'm contradicting

01:18:19.029 --> 01:18:21.229
myself because I started this argument off that

01:18:21.229 --> 01:18:23.050
I was frustrated that they made these new rules.

01:18:24.360 --> 01:18:26.880
And now I'm like, yes, I was probably part of

01:18:26.880 --> 01:18:29.180
the reason that they made these new rules because

01:18:29.180 --> 01:18:32.079
I like, and like I said, I don't know if anyone

01:18:32.079 --> 01:18:35.560
in the rules committee heard me say this or if

01:18:35.560 --> 01:18:38.439
one of the athletes told them, but I feel like

01:18:38.439 --> 01:18:40.819
I did bring up a really good point, which is

01:18:40.819 --> 01:18:43.699
why I would personally make this new rule. It's

01:18:43.699 --> 01:18:47.140
like someone at some point was going to do that

01:18:47.140 --> 01:18:49.859
because it was allowed. Like there was a hole

01:18:49.859 --> 01:18:54.460
in the rules and it needed to be filled. preferably

01:18:54.460 --> 01:18:58.340
before someone did that. Like I didn't do that,

01:18:58.380 --> 01:19:00.840
have no intention of doing that. But I thought

01:19:00.840 --> 01:19:02.699
of it as like, there's this giant loophole now

01:19:02.699 --> 01:19:04.420
where like, I'm allowed to spray my hands with

01:19:04.420 --> 01:19:07.699
water. Why would I not? Like, if I really wanted

01:19:07.699 --> 01:19:10.000
to do well, I'd just spray my hands with water

01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:13.560
right before I go. Part of it is like, I also

01:19:13.560 --> 01:19:15.279
just don't think it would help. Like, I think

01:19:15.279 --> 01:19:19.270
if I like, I don't know. if that was what I was

01:19:19.270 --> 01:19:21.630
focused on doing I don't think my round would

01:19:21.630 --> 01:19:23.470
I don't know I would probably just also not make

01:19:23.470 --> 01:19:25.369
the semi and then everyone would be like mad

01:19:25.369 --> 01:19:27.810
at me I don't think there are any climbers on

01:19:27.810 --> 01:19:29.550
this circuit right now who would do it I mean

01:19:29.550 --> 01:19:32.369
I remember like I don't remember if it was like

01:19:32.369 --> 01:19:34.250
last year the year before but there was like

01:19:34.250 --> 01:19:38.829
a slab start that like Yannick couldn't do. And

01:19:38.829 --> 01:19:40.869
so he kind of just like gave up and then brushed

01:19:40.869 --> 01:19:44.170
it for the next person. So I don't think anyone

01:19:44.170 --> 01:19:46.590
on the circuit would kind of go that route of

01:19:46.590 --> 01:19:48.550
like trying to sabotage other people's climbs.

01:19:49.050 --> 01:19:52.649
Yeah. No one's done it yet, but also the sport

01:19:52.649 --> 01:19:55.350
is growing and at some point someone was going

01:19:55.350 --> 01:19:58.090
to do it. Yeah. Someone should do it. I think

01:19:58.090 --> 01:20:01.350
a villain would be interesting to see. I would

01:20:01.350 --> 01:20:03.949
love a great, a good villain. Yeah. Someone who

01:20:03.949 --> 01:20:06.369
is just a terrible person and everyone can hate

01:20:06.369 --> 01:20:12.340
on. Couldn't be me. Okay. So thinking about the

01:20:12.340 --> 01:20:15.199
future going forward, while we are also kind

01:20:15.199 --> 01:20:17.680
of running low on time, what are your goals for

01:20:17.680 --> 01:20:21.100
2026 climbing and non -climbing related? I'm

01:20:21.100 --> 01:20:25.380
not quite sure yet. I'm kind of in a transition

01:20:25.380 --> 01:20:29.979
period. I want to make the team again in bouldering.

01:20:30.840 --> 01:20:32.979
I probably won't even compete in lead this year.

01:20:33.300 --> 01:20:35.619
Probably just focus on bouldering. And I have

01:20:35.619 --> 01:20:38.899
a bunch of outdoor. routes that I'd like to do.

01:20:40.180 --> 01:20:43.760
But time has gotten away from me and I'm kind

01:20:43.760 --> 01:20:46.180
of out of shape for lead climbing. So I think

01:20:46.180 --> 01:20:48.020
that those goals are going to be really hard

01:20:48.020 --> 01:20:51.680
to achieve before the season's over. I have some

01:20:51.680 --> 01:20:55.000
outdoor bouldering projects that I would also

01:20:55.000 --> 01:21:00.520
like to do. But Little Cottonwood is very tumultuous

01:21:00.520 --> 01:21:04.800
in the fall. And so I also don't know if I'll

01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:09.069
have time to do. those as well because potentially

01:21:09.069 --> 01:21:14.189
by next monday it'll be out of season for the

01:21:14.189 --> 01:21:19.050
fall wow okay like there's that there's like

01:21:19.050 --> 01:21:22.510
talk of it just getting snowed out and like and

01:21:22.510 --> 01:21:25.810
i we'll see everyone always says that and then

01:21:25.810 --> 01:21:28.289
the fall like we get a snowstorm in october and

01:21:28.289 --> 01:21:32.069
then nothing till like december like 15th or

01:21:32.069 --> 01:21:36.819
something but uh There is potential that the

01:21:36.819 --> 01:21:39.319
season's over pretty soon, and I just don't have

01:21:39.319 --> 01:21:42.020
time to climb those things either. I kind of

01:21:42.020 --> 01:21:44.420
accomplished my goal of two semis this year,

01:21:44.539 --> 01:21:48.199
so if I do make the team again, I think the next

01:21:48.199 --> 01:21:53.420
goal for me is a final, but it's hard. Yeah,

01:21:53.420 --> 01:21:56.159
oh, for sure. I know. Yeah, I know we're definitely

01:21:56.159 --> 01:21:57.899
running low on time, but I definitely want to

01:21:57.899 --> 01:22:00.420
get to some of the user -submitted questions.

01:22:00.819 --> 01:22:04.600
So first one I'll get into, this is from, like,

01:22:04.970 --> 01:22:07.250
Way back, I was going to go into it in the intro,

01:22:07.270 --> 01:22:09.590
but we veered a different direction. So we're

01:22:09.590 --> 01:22:12.149
going to ask this one now. Someone asked, did

01:22:12.149 --> 01:22:17.810
you really start climbing at two? Yes. I don't

01:22:17.810 --> 01:22:21.970
remember exactly. I don't remember, but it was

01:22:21.970 --> 01:22:24.970
like two or three. It was before I could walk.

01:22:26.109 --> 01:22:28.649
Jeez. Because my dad would like put me in a harness

01:22:28.649 --> 01:22:30.770
and they would just kind of like pull me up the

01:22:30.770 --> 01:22:32.829
wall and I would just like scramble up the wall.

01:22:33.640 --> 01:22:40.220
I also apparently at 18 months crawled. My mom

01:22:40.220 --> 01:22:44.619
like went to go put my sister down and I couldn't

01:22:44.619 --> 01:22:47.079
talk. I like didn't start talking until I was

01:22:47.079 --> 01:22:50.319
like really, I don't remember how old I was,

01:22:50.380 --> 01:22:53.520
but it was like very late in life. But I could

01:22:53.520 --> 01:22:57.220
crawl and I could walk. And my mom like let me

01:22:57.220 --> 01:23:00.060
go. I would like. basically communicated that

01:23:00.060 --> 01:23:02.000
I wanted to play outside. And she's like, yeah,

01:23:02.039 --> 01:23:03.539
I'm going to go put your sister down. And I could

01:23:03.539 --> 01:23:05.920
hear, I could like comprehend what she was saying.

01:23:05.960 --> 01:23:09.600
I just wasn't talking yet. And I like climbed

01:23:09.600 --> 01:23:13.840
over our five foot fence and walked to the park

01:23:13.840 --> 01:23:16.939
across the street. Oh my gosh. That's terrifying.

01:23:16.939 --> 01:23:19.420
And then my mom like heard some voices from outside

01:23:19.420 --> 01:23:21.720
the house and she opened the front door and there

01:23:21.720 --> 01:23:26.560
was a lady with a baby. Like, and was like, is

01:23:26.560 --> 01:23:29.630
this your baby? And so apparently I thought that

01:23:29.630 --> 01:23:33.930
the fire alarm caused fires. So I like went to

01:23:33.930 --> 01:23:35.989
where our fire spot was. My mom was like, if

01:23:35.989 --> 01:23:37.869
there's a fire, this is where you go. And I like

01:23:37.869 --> 01:23:40.270
went there. And then this lady like picked me

01:23:40.270 --> 01:23:43.090
up as I was like walking across the street at

01:23:43.090 --> 01:23:46.710
like 18 months in a diaper. And I like pointed

01:23:46.710 --> 01:23:49.130
my way home. So yes, I started very early. I

01:23:49.130 --> 01:23:53.430
was a very, very active kid. Like I hear my mom

01:23:53.430 --> 01:23:55.069
tells these stories and I'm like, damn, that

01:23:55.069 --> 01:23:58.229
sounds terrible. I really push you through it.

01:23:58.350 --> 01:24:01.289
You don't really remember doing that. No, I remember

01:24:01.289 --> 01:24:04.329
climbing into my mom's closet at a very young

01:24:04.329 --> 01:24:08.770
age. And then I don't think I ever fell out,

01:24:08.829 --> 01:24:10.750
but like very similar to the closet I have here.

01:24:10.810 --> 01:24:13.470
It's like a double door closet with the little

01:24:13.470 --> 01:24:15.989
shelf at the top. And I would like climb the

01:24:15.989 --> 01:24:18.930
door and then crawl into the little shelf. And

01:24:18.930 --> 01:24:20.970
now I'm looking at it and I'm like, wow, that's,

01:24:20.970 --> 01:24:24.149
I was really small if I could fit in there. I

01:24:24.149 --> 01:24:26.189
was, yeah, I just was like always on top of things.

01:24:27.650 --> 01:24:31.770
And I just have like infinite, I just have a

01:24:31.770 --> 01:24:34.470
bunch of memories of like my entire childhood

01:24:34.470 --> 01:24:37.189
getting yelled at by other parents for being

01:24:37.189 --> 01:24:40.149
on top of things. And it was really frustrating

01:24:40.149 --> 01:24:42.409
because I knew what I was doing and I was really

01:24:42.409 --> 01:24:45.369
good at it. And my mom was like, yeah, that's

01:24:45.369 --> 01:24:47.369
just what he does. And then someone else would

01:24:47.369 --> 01:24:49.090
come over and be like, you need to get down.

01:24:49.229 --> 01:24:51.609
And I'm like, you're not my mom. Leave me alone.

01:24:52.550 --> 01:24:55.130
Like we went to like the zoo and there was like

01:24:55.130 --> 01:24:57.890
a a playground that was like you would go inside

01:24:57.890 --> 01:24:59.569
of the playground and then climb in the side

01:24:59.569 --> 01:25:01.590
of it and of course like that was boring because

01:25:01.590 --> 01:25:04.289
it was made for kids so i would like climb the

01:25:04.289 --> 01:25:06.689
outside of it and like some mom came over and

01:25:06.689 --> 01:25:08.670
was like that's dangerous you need to get down

01:25:08.670 --> 01:25:14.310
and then at my first world youth world championships

01:25:14.310 --> 01:25:18.829
we like as a team went to the park to go get

01:25:18.829 --> 01:25:22.310
like you know it was like team activities or

01:25:22.310 --> 01:25:25.039
whatever and i like climbed a tree and then all

01:25:25.039 --> 01:25:27.039
the kids were like oh my god you're gonna get

01:25:27.039 --> 01:25:29.100
hurt you're gonna get down and I was like this

01:25:29.100 --> 01:25:31.220
is the only place I should feel safe and for

01:25:31.220 --> 01:25:33.420
some reason I don't feel safe right now I was

01:25:33.420 --> 01:25:36.119
like why am I getting called out by other US

01:25:36.119 --> 01:25:39.180
team athletes on the US rock climbing it was

01:25:39.180 --> 01:25:41.539
pretty funny I like really remember getting yelled

01:25:41.539 --> 01:25:43.279
at by all the kids and then like the coaches

01:25:43.279 --> 01:25:48.199
I think it was Meg Meg was like dude you're really

01:25:48.199 --> 01:25:50.680
upsetting all the other kids and I'm like I know

01:25:50.680 --> 01:25:54.069
you're good but like can You're making my job

01:25:54.069 --> 01:25:56.470
so much harder. Can you please come down? I'm

01:25:56.470 --> 01:25:58.390
like, I don't want to deal with all these teenagers

01:25:58.390 --> 01:26:00.810
that are freaking out because you're in this

01:26:00.810 --> 01:26:03.710
tree. I was like, that's fair. For you, I will

01:26:03.710 --> 01:26:05.890
get out of the tree. For these kids, I'm very

01:26:05.890 --> 01:26:08.750
upset that they don't also want to climb the

01:26:08.750 --> 01:26:10.289
tree with me. Well, you wouldn't want to get

01:26:10.289 --> 01:26:12.329
injured before. Yeah, they were like, you could

01:26:12.329 --> 01:26:14.149
get hurt before the comp. I was like, we're at

01:26:14.149 --> 01:26:17.010
a rock climbing competition. I'm sure I can climb

01:26:17.010 --> 01:26:21.550
this tree. yeah i feel fine um okay next one

01:26:21.550 --> 01:26:26.489
we'll go to um what kept you motivated to keep

01:26:26.489 --> 01:26:29.670
trying after all the failures at nationals to

01:26:29.670 --> 01:26:33.310
lead to your eventual success that's a good question

01:26:33.310 --> 01:26:42.510
um i mean one thing that like kept being a recycling

01:26:42.510 --> 01:26:47.369
like idea is that like i could never forgive

01:26:47.369 --> 01:26:53.310
myself if i like got you know it's it basically

01:26:53.310 --> 01:26:56.130
if at the end of my life i was like but what

01:26:56.130 --> 01:26:58.869
if like what if i kept trying and kept going

01:26:58.869 --> 01:27:01.470
like what could i have done if i had not quit

01:27:01.470 --> 01:27:06.529
um and i think that was like it was like you

01:27:06.529 --> 01:27:08.149
know like that was the that was the big one so

01:27:08.149 --> 01:27:12.590
i never forget myself i like could ask myself

01:27:12.590 --> 01:27:15.810
like what if I don't want to ever have that question

01:27:15.810 --> 01:27:17.489
of, like, what could have happened? Like, what

01:27:17.489 --> 01:27:20.470
could I have done? Like, I want to know, like,

01:27:20.510 --> 01:27:22.430
how far I've pushed myself and then be content

01:27:22.430 --> 01:27:24.750
with knowing that I've, like, done all that I

01:27:24.750 --> 01:27:28.010
can do to be the best that I could be. And then

01:27:28.010 --> 01:27:29.909
the other, you know, the other thing, too, is,

01:27:29.989 --> 01:27:33.229
like, I just really like climbing and I really

01:27:33.229 --> 01:27:36.770
love climbing and I'm really competitive. And

01:27:36.770 --> 01:27:41.229
so, like, and this may be a long tangent, but

01:27:41.229 --> 01:27:45.100
I'm just, like. keep wanting to be better and

01:27:45.100 --> 01:27:47.239
i don't feel like i've peaked i don't feel like

01:27:47.239 --> 01:27:49.359
i'm at the end and like i still just want to

01:27:49.359 --> 01:27:53.399
keep going and so like competitions i keep signing

01:27:53.399 --> 01:27:56.439
up because i just keep realizing that i want

01:27:56.439 --> 01:27:59.319
to compete and so and then as far as training

01:27:59.319 --> 01:28:04.100
goes like i'm still just fired up to be good

01:28:04.100 --> 01:28:06.760
and be i want to be one of the greats so bad

01:28:06.760 --> 01:28:11.939
yeah and so like i just it becomes really easy

01:28:11.939 --> 01:28:13.840
for me to motivate to go to the gym and to like

01:28:13.840 --> 01:28:15.939
keep training and so you were still having fun

01:28:15.939 --> 01:28:18.300
even after not making the team those times so

01:28:18.300 --> 01:28:20.319
you still wanted to keep doing it yeah there's

01:28:20.319 --> 01:28:22.359
definitely like a lot of times that i'm not having

01:28:22.359 --> 01:28:27.199
fun like being a professional athlete is definitely

01:28:27.199 --> 01:28:30.500
not fun all the time it's like a lot of crap

01:28:30.500 --> 01:28:34.539
and a lot of just suffering like but that's and

01:28:34.539 --> 01:28:36.359
i say professional athlete but that's just like

01:28:36.939 --> 01:28:39.439
being successful at anything and being really

01:28:39.439 --> 01:28:42.640
good at anything means like doing all of the

01:28:42.640 --> 01:28:46.239
crap and like you know i started this quote from

01:28:46.239 --> 01:28:49.180
another podcast that was like the crappy thing

01:28:49.180 --> 01:28:51.739
about all of these motivational movies is like

01:28:51.739 --> 01:28:54.600
the rocky the 30 second rocky scene or five second

01:28:54.600 --> 01:28:58.520
rocky scene lasts five seconds like all of these

01:28:58.520 --> 01:29:02.020
training montages last like five seconds like

01:29:02.020 --> 01:29:04.300
you don't realize that this stuff takes like

01:29:04.300 --> 01:29:10.439
five years like you know like that five second

01:29:10.439 --> 01:29:15.079
training montage is really like five years of

01:29:15.079 --> 01:29:18.260
your life yeah true like you got to do what they

01:29:18.260 --> 01:29:21.600
do in that montage for like five years straight

01:29:21.600 --> 01:29:24.880
and just eat crap for five years if you like

01:29:24.880 --> 01:29:29.819
really want to do the thing so like you know

01:29:29.819 --> 01:29:32.140
it's a lot of that but also I love competing

01:29:32.140 --> 01:29:34.100
and so like and I'm still having fun competing

01:29:34.750 --> 01:29:36.569
and so like before i signed up for nationals

01:29:36.569 --> 01:29:40.090
like i was like thought i was gonna maybe retire

01:29:40.090 --> 01:29:43.090
like thought i was gonna maybe not do it and

01:29:43.090 --> 01:29:45.109
then i thought about whether i wanted to go or

01:29:45.109 --> 01:29:48.729
not and i was like oh i actually like whether

01:29:48.729 --> 01:29:51.270
the result was good or not i was like i do want

01:29:51.270 --> 01:29:53.909
to go because i want to go compete and i just

01:29:53.909 --> 01:29:56.170
had continued to be training so i was like prepared

01:29:56.170 --> 01:29:59.369
and also less and mentally in a better position

01:29:59.369 --> 01:30:03.479
because i wanted to be there before like me And

01:30:03.479 --> 01:30:05.159
I think that's a good question too to ask is

01:30:05.159 --> 01:30:08.239
like if money wasn't an option or it wasn't like

01:30:08.239 --> 01:30:11.060
a thought, like if you weren't like, oh, like

01:30:11.060 --> 01:30:13.100
it's going to cost this much to go to team trials.

01:30:13.279 --> 01:30:16.319
And like, if I don't go to team trials, like

01:30:16.319 --> 01:30:18.699
my sponsors aren't going to pay me this much.

01:30:19.199 --> 01:30:22.100
And like, if I, you know, like if money's not

01:30:22.100 --> 01:30:24.199
a thing and you don't have to worry about getting

01:30:24.199 --> 01:30:27.119
paid by your sponsors or paying to go to an event

01:30:27.119 --> 01:30:30.100
or making money at a competition, like where

01:30:30.100 --> 01:30:32.260
do you go to that competition? Right. Like if

01:30:32.260 --> 01:30:34.380
it was just free to go and you didn't have to

01:30:34.380 --> 01:30:36.319
take off work or like whatever, like would you

01:30:36.319 --> 01:30:38.899
go? If the answer was yes, then you should like,

01:30:38.979 --> 01:30:41.279
you know, you should keep doing it. Yeah, that's

01:30:41.279 --> 01:30:43.260
a good way to think about it. Money does really

01:30:43.260 --> 01:30:46.119
complicate things though. It really complicates

01:30:46.119 --> 01:30:48.239
things. Not saying you shouldn't do things because

01:30:48.239 --> 01:30:49.939
of money and because like you can't afford it

01:30:49.939 --> 01:30:52.140
or whatever, but that's like an easy way to decide

01:30:52.140 --> 01:30:53.720
what you want to do with your life. It's like

01:30:53.720 --> 01:30:57.039
if money wasn't like involved in this, would

01:30:57.039 --> 01:31:00.229
I be doing that or not? Yeah. Okay. The next

01:31:00.229 --> 01:31:02.970
one, when you started climbing, what local climbers

01:31:02.970 --> 01:31:04.729
helped you or were people that you looked up

01:31:04.729 --> 01:31:08.770
to? Oh, that's a great question. I had a very

01:31:08.770 --> 01:31:12.710
lovely climbing community growing up. And you

01:31:12.710 --> 01:31:17.409
said New Mexico, right? Yeah, New Mexico. I had

01:31:17.409 --> 01:31:21.609
a great coach, Andre, who also owned the gym.

01:31:22.409 --> 01:31:25.229
And then he also hired another really amazing

01:31:25.229 --> 01:31:29.359
coach, Ed, who like... Took me under his wing

01:31:29.359 --> 01:31:34.859
and taught me a lot about rock climbing. And

01:31:34.859 --> 01:31:40.039
I picked up a lot of habits from him. He's an

01:31:40.039 --> 01:31:47.500
insomniac, doesn't sleep. I thought I was crazy

01:31:47.500 --> 01:31:50.640
back then, but now I will frequently wake up

01:31:50.640 --> 01:31:52.880
at 5 o 'clock in the morning and go climbing.

01:31:54.340 --> 01:31:57.420
which I'm sure is a byproduct. And, yeah, everyone's

01:31:57.420 --> 01:31:59.199
like, I would never be willing to do that. And

01:31:59.199 --> 01:32:01.279
I'm just like, no, it's just what you do. You

01:32:01.279 --> 01:32:03.079
just get up to five and go rock climbing. And

01:32:03.079 --> 01:32:05.960
that was, like, what he did. Dan was, like, a

01:32:05.960 --> 01:32:10.319
really great coach. Someone else I, like, really

01:32:10.319 --> 01:32:13.899
valued was Brendan, who was, like, a guy who

01:32:13.899 --> 01:32:15.579
was just climbing to the gym, was, like, part

01:32:15.579 --> 01:32:19.300
of the, like, adult homies. Like, he would climb

01:32:19.300 --> 01:32:23.329
with Ed. They would have, like, boys night. I

01:32:23.329 --> 01:32:26.069
remember when I was invited over for the first

01:32:26.069 --> 01:32:27.689
time, they were like, all right, I think you're

01:32:27.689 --> 01:32:29.449
finally old enough and mature enough to play

01:32:29.449 --> 01:32:33.369
comedy. But it's not. And then this dude, Mike,

01:32:33.489 --> 01:32:37.789
who was really amazing. But I had a really rad

01:32:37.789 --> 01:32:44.729
crew of adult men that all kind of put up with

01:32:44.729 --> 01:32:46.970
me because I was really not that fun to be around

01:32:46.970 --> 01:32:50.140
as a little teenager. What's one bit of climbing

01:32:50.140 --> 01:32:53.539
advice and life advice from that whole thing

01:32:53.539 --> 01:32:56.159
that you feel like resonates with you most to

01:32:56.159 --> 01:32:59.859
this day? Dude, one that I think about all the

01:32:59.859 --> 01:33:04.100
time, which is crazy, is I remember like when

01:33:04.100 --> 01:33:06.579
Brendan like sat me down and was like, dude,

01:33:06.720 --> 01:33:09.060
you cannot try the boulder problem from the ground

01:33:09.060 --> 01:33:11.720
every time. And I was like, that's what? Why

01:33:11.720 --> 01:33:13.300
not? And he was like, dude, that just makes no

01:33:13.300 --> 01:33:16.369
sense. He's like, you do all of the moves first

01:33:16.369 --> 01:33:20.029
and then you try it from the ground. And I like

01:33:20.029 --> 01:33:22.529
think about that all the time. And then still

01:33:22.529 --> 01:33:25.130
frequently have to tell people that like climb

01:33:25.130 --> 01:33:27.250
way too hard for me to be like, yo, why are you

01:33:27.250 --> 01:33:30.130
like trying it from the ground every time? Yeah.

01:33:30.170 --> 01:33:32.310
Like, what are you thinking? And they're like,

01:33:32.329 --> 01:33:34.109
well, I want to send it. I'm like, yeah. And

01:33:34.109 --> 01:33:36.050
you're not going to do that if you try it from

01:33:36.050 --> 01:33:38.829
the ground every time. Like figure out how to

01:33:38.829 --> 01:33:40.689
do the puzzle and then put the puzzle together.

01:33:41.640 --> 01:33:44.260
Okay. I do forget that one a lot, actually. Thanks

01:33:44.260 --> 01:33:48.079
for reminding me. Like I did it today. I tried

01:33:48.079 --> 01:33:49.859
this problem from the ground like four times

01:33:49.859 --> 01:33:51.680
in a row and I still had not done the second

01:33:51.680 --> 01:33:53.239
move, but I was just like, I'm going to do it

01:33:53.239 --> 01:33:56.439
from the ground. Never did the second move. Yeah,

01:33:56.500 --> 01:33:59.739
I get that. Then I think that is all the questions

01:33:59.739 --> 01:34:03.640
I had. Thanks for joining me again today. Yeah.

01:34:03.699 --> 01:34:06.260
Thanks for having me on again. I appreciate it.

01:34:06.439 --> 01:34:09.279
Are there any like... Other words of wisdom you

01:34:09.279 --> 01:34:11.579
came up with since that time that you want to

01:34:11.579 --> 01:34:13.960
get out there? Once again, I'm going to shout

01:34:13.960 --> 01:34:18.199
out Pusher and Osun. They're both just like really

01:34:18.199 --> 01:34:21.640
great sponsors and they're like making it possible

01:34:21.640 --> 01:34:26.079
that I can keep doing what I'm doing. I'm like,

01:34:26.239 --> 01:34:31.100
yeah, I'm really thankful for that. And where

01:34:31.100 --> 01:34:33.079
can people find you if they want to see more

01:34:33.079 --> 01:34:37.310
of your stuff? My Instagram is HannahSmash. I

01:34:37.310 --> 01:34:38.970
think that's it. I think Instagram is kind of

01:34:38.970 --> 01:34:42.189
the best place to find me. I'm at The Bouldering

01:34:42.189 --> 01:34:46.350
Project 30 hours a week, 30, 40 hours a week.

01:34:46.909 --> 01:34:49.430
Not 40. I never actually clocked 40. I actually

01:34:49.430 --> 01:34:51.050
had a conversation with Greg the other day where

01:34:51.050 --> 01:34:54.449
he was like, dude, you work full time. You've

01:34:54.449 --> 01:34:56.710
got to be in here more often. You haven't hit

01:34:56.710 --> 01:34:59.430
your minimum for full time in three weeks now.

01:35:01.170 --> 01:35:03.789
Part of it was because I was off doing comps.

01:35:04.109 --> 01:35:07.590
Yeah, understandable. I don't actually work a

01:35:07.590 --> 01:35:10.550
full time job. I work almost a full time job.

01:35:10.649 --> 01:35:13.109
I'm like the bare minimum to be full time. It

01:35:13.109 --> 01:35:15.090
just feels like a lot because I spent most of

01:35:15.090 --> 01:35:17.989
my life just goofing off and rock climbing. And

01:35:17.989 --> 01:35:21.390
so 30 hours of work feels a lot more than no

01:35:21.390 --> 01:35:24.329
hours of work. Yeah. I mean, in addition to training,

01:35:24.529 --> 01:35:27.310
it is a lot of time spent in the gym. I do work

01:35:27.310 --> 01:35:30.109
like two full time jobs. I work like 30 hours

01:35:30.109 --> 01:35:32.850
of the Bullroom Project and then I'm a professional

01:35:32.850 --> 01:35:37.500
athlete. And then I... like to take on other

01:35:37.500 --> 01:35:41.500
things so i'm got like three other things going

01:35:41.500 --> 01:35:44.579
on too they're taking a bunch of time it's a

01:35:44.579 --> 01:35:47.539
lot i don't know how you handle it but good luck

01:35:48.189 --> 01:35:51.069
Thank you. Okay, awesome. Well, thank you again

01:35:51.069 --> 01:35:53.189
for joining me. And it was another great talk.

01:35:53.449 --> 01:35:55.109
Yeah, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

01:35:55.170 --> 01:35:57.649
Thank you so much for making it to the end of

01:35:57.649 --> 01:36:00.109
the podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe

01:36:00.109 --> 01:36:03.149
if you enjoyed. Otherwise, you are a super big

01:36:03.149 --> 01:36:05.989
climber. If you're listening on a podcasting

01:36:05.989 --> 01:36:08.130
platform, I'd appreciate if you rate it five

01:36:08.130 --> 01:36:10.890
stars and you can continue the discussion on

01:36:10.890 --> 01:36:13.609
the free competition climbing discord linked

01:36:13.609 --> 01:36:16.069
in the description. Thanks again for listening.

01:36:17.520 --> 01:36:17.779
Thank you.