WEBVTT

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This video got me into so much troubles with

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no reason. Just sitting in the background and

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helping them with stuff they needed in the gym,

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nothing more. It was a solid rumor that IFSC

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have an idea to do the qualification for Olympic

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in the combined format. But sliding on a volume,

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I don't know if it's necessarily climbing, okay?

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It's hard to be an athlete in Germany. We say

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the German mothers prefer to have engineers or

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doctors or lawyers or accountants. I cannot teach

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Alex Megos how to put a toe hook. He knows it

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better than me. I cannot teach Yannick Flohe,

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you know, how to become stronger. He can maybe

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teach me how to become stronger. Welcome to another

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episode of the That's Not World Climbing podcast.

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I'm your host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce

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my guest for today, Sagi Damti. Sagi has been

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the German team's bouldering coach since 2022.

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In this episode, we'll get insight into Team

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Germany's training and challenges, hear why he

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thinks the losses hurt the coaches more than

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the competitors, we'll get a story about his

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experience as an almost homeless person while

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in the US, and most importantly, we'll debunk

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his famous statement in the Magnus video that

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Olympic qualifiers will still be in the combined

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format for 2028. Lots of interesting stories

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coming up, so I hope you enjoy this episode with

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Sagi. I'm excited to announce that my sponsor,

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Mad Rock Climbing, just came out with a brand

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new pair of shoes, the Remora Pro. I was so excited

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to try them on that even though I broke a toe

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on my right foot, I had to at least try on the

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left shoe. So I can definitely say that the Remora

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Pro is better than a rental shoe. But really,

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these are their softest shoe ever, which means

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you no longer need to worry about standing on

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sketchy volumes and comps. They also have a crazy

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3D heel that allows you to get more surface area

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when heel hooking and inserts that lock your

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heel into the shoe no matter how hard you're

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pulling. Feel free to message me if you have

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any questions about the shoes or sizing and you

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can use the discount code NOTREALCLIMBER for

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10 % off your entire MedRock order. Back to the

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show. What's been keeping you busy? Now, those

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days, we are handling the preparation for the

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world championship in Korea. Yeah, it's been

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a pretty, pretty busy summer. I did the youth

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worlds in Helsinki as well. So now facing Korea,

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we do every week preparation for it. And the

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second thing is that in Germany, they are super

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planned. to the future so already now i started

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to deal with um the plans for for next year for

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the training season of next year and how we're

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gonna handle everything budget wise and oh you

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have to deal with budget too not really so my

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boss is dealing with uh with the budget the the

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sport manager But for him to establish the budget,

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he needs to know what I want to do in terms of

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settings, in terms of training camps and traveling.

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And how was your vacation? Where did you go again?

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I've been in Spain. Let's say the home for my

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soul. Okay. Yeah, I love Spain. I've been there

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for two weeks. So after the boulder season ended,

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I could take... some chill time. Also, the athletes

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took some chill time. And then directly from

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Spain, I flew to Helsinki to deal with the youth

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worlds. Did you climb in Spain? A little bit,

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yes. I got to admit that the last years when

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my, let's say, full -time job and mind is focused

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on competition climbing. And it's getting harder

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and harder for me to see it also as my hobby.

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It started as my hobby and I really love climbing,

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but then I find myself more and more feeling

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that the climbing gym is not the place I want

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to be in my free time. It feels like a little

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bit coming to the office, you know? Well, what

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about like climbing outside? It's more exciting

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and it's nicer and I love it. But also, I do

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it less and less, to be honest. I did climb outside.

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I've been in some nice locations around the place

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I've been. Nothing famous. And most of all, I

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see it more as a chill day in the rocks, not

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pushing too hard, just enjoying being in nature

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and outdoors. Well, I guess I actually don't

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really know your climbing background. So how

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did you get into it? How long have you been doing

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it? Like, did you ever compete? No, no, no. I

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haven't competed professionally. I used to do

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some fun camps, like in the gym, but nothing

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more than that. I started climbing maybe 17 or

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18 years ago, something like this, around the

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age of 20. I don't remember if it was a bit before

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or a bit after. And I came to climbing from a

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different sport that I did. I was doing a lot

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of skydiving and base jumping. And then from

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there, somehow I got transferred into climbing.

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And yeah, it was very cool. I was actually in

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Italy doing some base jumping. One of the locations

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that we wanted to jump from required you to climb

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there. Never climbed before, never did it before.

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It was a very easy climbing, like chill climbing.

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And for me, it was very hard for the first time

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ever to go and climb outdoors and lead climbing.

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But yeah, eventually I loved it. I came back

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home and started to do it more and more professionally.

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And then how did you get into coaching from there?

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So it was like a side hustle. I was a student

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in university and I needed some, let's call it

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some easy income as a student. And they offered

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me in the gym that I climbed, they offered me

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to take some kids classes. And I told them, I

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don't really know. I was maybe climbing for a

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year back then. And I told them, I don't know

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how to teach climbing because I am not a professional

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climber. And the guy told me, ah, it's okay.

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You don't need to know how to climb. You need

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to know how to work with kids. And this is something

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that I do very well. For many years, I was a

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guide in a youth movement. Also, my studies was

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to become a teacher in school. So, yeah, I just

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started like this with random kids in the gym.

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And step by step, I liked it more. And there

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was kids that wanted to push a little bit harder.

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So I started like reading some articles and books

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and figuring out some climbing exercises, something

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that was foreign to me. And we kind of learned

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it together. I learned how to coach. Then it

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became more and more serious in my life. Also,

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I kept doing it. Also, after university, I was

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already a teacher in school. And I kept coaching

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climbing in the afternoons till it came to a

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moment that I felt I love it way more than anything

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else I'm doing. And I fully committed to... to

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coaching and route setting and yeah and then

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the years went by i became more and more uh let's

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say professional in the field and yeah so you

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never had like a degree in like coaching or like

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physio stuff or anything like that yeah so most

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of the if we talk about uh coaching degrees in

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climbing it's more rare uh we talk about uh sport

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science so right yeah a lot of of coaches learned

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the sport science i did not learn uh sport science

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it's uh everything is let's say more autodidact

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like i i just learned by myself the field that

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i was interested in i did took some courses in

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in a sports school but Not in a way of full degree

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or any kind of certification or something like

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this. These days I do have a coaching license

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and a certification from the DAV, from the German

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Federation. But again, I collected knowledge

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for 15 years and it came by. Also, I think universities

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is a fraud. In general? Yeah, yeah. I think it's,

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especially those days, I don't feel it's needed.

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I think there are better ways to collect information

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and to educate yourself or get educated by others.

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But yeah, I was never good at sitting in class

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and listening to lectures for hours. Interesting.

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Okay. Yeah, I guess I'm kind of surprised to

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hear. I thought most of the World Cup coaches

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would have some sort of background in exercise

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science or have been a pro competitor in the

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past. So that's surprising to hear. I don't know

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if you know other coaches who kind of took that

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path. My guess, I know a lot of my colleagues'

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education and knowledge. My guess will be that...

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um inclining i will bet 50 50 like i will bet

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that 50 of us have the the formal uh university

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education and 50 of us are more self -taught

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or or have the experience from years of of doing

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it anyway we are babies in in in the perception

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of of sport you know this uh If we look at IFSC,

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it's a federation existing for 20 years, like

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since 2007. Anyway, it's a very young sport,

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professional -wise. It's also creating one of

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the difficulties in our sport that the community

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is exploding, like climbing gyms all over the

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world. It's becoming more and more, I don't know.

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popular and commercial but from the other hand

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um the professional people that are supposed

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to push the field it's taking time so you see

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a lot of genes spreading around like mushrooms

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but you don't have enough people that uh root

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set root set professionally or coach professionally

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so uh but i'm sure that we'll start catching

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up like with time Well, it's good to hear for

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people out there that it's possible to get into

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something like this without having a formal education

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background. Yeah, for sure. And so then more

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specifically, how did you become the German coach?

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I don't know if it's interesting. I just have

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my own story. I was in a training camp in Innsbruck

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with my team from Israel, with the Israeli team

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or some of the Israeli team. And I had some,

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let's say, some meetings from other coaches around

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the world, people that I know from the IFSC circuit

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as a youth coach. One of them was Ingo Filswieser.

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He is currently the sport manager of DAV. Back

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then, he was the head coach of the German team.

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And they were looking for a boulder coach, like

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a coach that his specialty is bouldering. And

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he asked me what I'm doing and if I'm interested

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of this kind of position. My first reaction was,

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no, thank you. I'm happy where I am. Most of

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all, probably because to me it sounded imaginary,

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you know, for me from a country that is... pretty

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much disconnected in the climbing bubble, pretty

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much disconnected from the world. And so it sounded

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like big shoes for my small feet. And yeah, it

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was a process of a few months when Ingo was pushing

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me and trying to convince me. yeah to go for

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it then they invited me to to come for a few

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days of training in munich to see the facility

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to meet with the athletes and this is what i

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did i traveled with the israeli kids we just

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came for a weekend in in munich and yeah i liked

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it i like the atmosphere i like the the german

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athletes and it sounded more and more uh interesting

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to me and then eventually I sat with one of my

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athletes in Israel, not personal athlete, but

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Alex Kazanov is one of the best, let's say, Israelis,

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still the only Israeli that have a gold medal

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in a World Cup. Yeah, he was the first one, by

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the way, in Tayan World Cup 2018. Oh, okay. Yeah.

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And I sat with him and I told him, hey, I have

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this opportunity, what do you think about it?

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And he told me, no question that you should go

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for it because we needed back then someone to

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a little bit burst the Israeli bubble and go

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above what we used to know. And yeah, with his

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support and support from my personal friends

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that knew how... How scared I am from going out

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of my comfort zone and going to a different country.

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I don't speak the language. I don't know the

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people. I think it's not the hardest thing that

00:15:33.460 --> 00:15:35.980
you could do, but it's hard also personally.

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In my age, I was over 30. To move to a new country,

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no friends, no family, no background there. It

00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:51.100
was pretty random for me. Um, and yeah, eventually

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I had to, to deal with all my, uh, imposter syndrome

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and just like, uh, uh, go for it. And yeah, I

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did, I did the interviews that they wanted and,

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and all the background checks and everything.

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And I, I remember the day that I got a call from

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the boss of the AV back then. And he called me.

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I was in Israel. It was morning. I was on my

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way to the gym or still at home. I don't really

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remember, but I answered and he told me, so we

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are interested. We want to hire you. Would you

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move to Germany next month? And I was like, you

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know, I haven't even figured out like stuff.

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Where would I live? What does it mean to move

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to another country? I don't have a European passport.

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how do i go through all the visas that like it

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yeah and then i got uh a huge uh tummy ache and

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a huge storm in in my belly and i was just in

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bed all the rest of the day thinking what am

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i doing like is it what am i uh the thing that

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i'm supposed to do should i go there should not

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and yeah i'm pretty happy that that I took the

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opportunity and I think both me and the German

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team are benefiting from, let's say, a different

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mind and a different spirit than the German mentality

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coming and trying to do new stuff with them.

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Yeah, I mean, it's really hard to move. I've

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moved around a bunch within the US, so it's different.

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I can't even imagine moving to a different country.

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But yeah, not knowing anyone, especially not

00:17:42.509 --> 00:17:44.069
speaking the language, I feel like that's hard.

00:17:44.210 --> 00:17:47.970
Did you pick up any German? Absolutely not. Wow,

00:17:47.990 --> 00:17:50.289
really? You're pressing. It's like the hardest

00:17:50.289 --> 00:17:56.910
point for me. My federation really wants me to

00:17:56.910 --> 00:18:03.220
learn German. I am trying a little bit, but to

00:18:03.220 --> 00:18:08.759
be honest, it's just my ADHD is not allowing

00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:13.039
me to sit and study properly. I did catch up

00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:16.400
some of the language in a way that I can understand

00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:19.920
and connect some words together from what I hear.

00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:23.380
To speak it out is almost impossible for me.

00:18:23.619 --> 00:18:27.019
And yeah, for sure you can hear also that my

00:18:27.019 --> 00:18:30.920
English is... maybe okay but my grammar is not

00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:34.220
correct or maybe i'm using like the words not

00:18:34.220 --> 00:18:37.259
in the most correct way but as long as long as

00:18:37.259 --> 00:18:41.339
you understand me i think it's uh okay um so

00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:44.200
yeah i have difficulties learning different uh

00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:48.839
languages and i mean your english is fine i think

00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.589
so My English is fine. It's considered to be

00:18:52.589 --> 00:18:56.930
very low level in Israel. In Israel, the level

00:18:56.930 --> 00:19:00.329
of English is very, very high. I failed English

00:19:00.329 --> 00:19:03.789
in high school and then I failed English in university

00:19:03.789 --> 00:19:11.549
multiple times before that. But yeah, I think

00:19:11.549 --> 00:19:14.450
what I'm happy about, something that I paid attention

00:19:14.450 --> 00:19:18.109
after working for four years in Germany and my

00:19:18.109 --> 00:19:22.079
whole life are in English. I think today I came

00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:25.259
to a new situation when I am not doing the process

00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:29.180
of translating in my mind. So before I used to

00:19:29.180 --> 00:19:31.799
think what I want to say in Hebrew, then translate

00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:35.140
it to English, then saying it. And now I think

00:19:35.140 --> 00:19:38.799
I'm becoming more fluent in the way that I don't

00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.859
need to stop and think how to say every specific

00:19:41.859 --> 00:19:44.980
word. Yeah, that's a good feeling. So I guess

00:19:44.980 --> 00:19:48.079
for a lot of more casual climbers like me, it's

00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:50.359
hard to picture in what ways the pros need to

00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:53.420
improve. Do you ever need to give basic climbing

00:19:53.420 --> 00:19:56.279
tips or reminders? Or is it just as simple as

00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:58.059
showing them a video of them climbing and then

00:19:58.059 --> 00:20:01.039
they know what to fix? No, no, no, no. Of course,

00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:06.720
there are great climbers, but a different perspective,

00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:09.920
it's always something beneficial. Also, when

00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:13.140
those top athletes that I work with are climbing

00:20:13.140 --> 00:20:16.440
on the wall, I'm capable of seeing stuff that

00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:18.980
they are not capable of seeing. Just because

00:20:18.980 --> 00:20:21.839
we have different perspectives, different kind

00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:25.539
of, I don't know, understanding of movement,

00:20:25.619 --> 00:20:28.220
because we are different people with different

00:20:28.220 --> 00:20:32.099
morphology. But it will come. So, for example,

00:20:32.099 --> 00:20:35.359
when I work with youth, so sometimes I will explain

00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:40.960
basic stuff like... how we can pull better with

00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:43.539
our heel, how to move the weight more correct

00:20:43.539 --> 00:20:48.440
on the wall. With people like Jalik or Lucia,

00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.099
Elias, like top athletes, it will be more a conversation

00:20:52.099 --> 00:20:55.900
about how do you think we could make this move

00:20:55.900 --> 00:21:01.680
better, what we can try to improve. And yeah,

00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:05.880
of course, it's also in the physical part and

00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:10.529
the technique part. But as a team coach, most

00:21:10.529 --> 00:21:14.990
of my focus is how we compete, how we go to competitions,

00:21:15.349 --> 00:21:18.230
how we perform, and what will be the team strategy

00:21:18.230 --> 00:21:21.369
to, for example, to gain more spots for next

00:21:21.369 --> 00:21:26.009
year or whatever. It's less the day -to -day

00:21:26.009 --> 00:21:29.809
training. I do day -to -day training, but my

00:21:29.809 --> 00:21:34.450
main topic is how we're going to take all of

00:21:34.450 --> 00:21:38.490
your capabilities. advantages as an athlete and

00:21:38.490 --> 00:21:41.089
bring them on the mattress on the right time

00:21:41.089 --> 00:21:44.750
on the right moment i didn't come and say i have

00:21:44.750 --> 00:21:48.730
new exercises how to how to do bicep curls in

00:21:48.730 --> 00:21:50.990
a different way that will make your bicep stronger

00:21:50.990 --> 00:21:55.049
you know every everybody knows how to train every

00:21:55.049 --> 00:21:58.970
muscle there are no secrets so i think especially

00:21:58.970 --> 00:22:03.569
in climbing most of the most of the effects that

00:22:03.569 --> 00:22:06.599
you can give are more on the mental part You

00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:09.619
know, I came to be the adult coach, not a youth

00:22:09.619 --> 00:22:14.319
coach. So I work with Alex Megos. I cannot teach

00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:17.640
Alex Megos how to put a toe hook. He knows it

00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:21.200
better than me, you know. I cannot teach Yannick

00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:24.339
Flohe, you know, how to become stronger. He can

00:22:24.339 --> 00:22:26.779
maybe teach me how to become stronger. Yeah.

00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:31.940
But I can teach them how to fight correctly,

00:22:32.259 --> 00:22:35.599
how to come with a better mental state. to the

00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:38.960
mattress. Now, sometimes you succeed, sometimes

00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:42.240
you don't. It's all a big journey that we do

00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:45.779
together. So do you have insight into the German

00:22:45.779 --> 00:22:48.299
team's time spent on wall training versus strength

00:22:48.299 --> 00:22:51.240
training versus handboarding or cardio, stuff

00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:54.619
like that? Each one with his plan. No, no athletes

00:22:54.619 --> 00:23:01.340
are the same. There is no right, correct. for

00:23:01.340 --> 00:23:05.420
the time schedule for each athlete. It's a bit

00:23:05.420 --> 00:23:10.420
different. But they are on the wall day to day.

00:23:10.579 --> 00:23:14.819
There is no... Besides the full rest days, they

00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:18.400
are on the wall every day. Of course, every day

00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:22.559
has its own focuses or methods. And it also depends

00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:26.019
on the time of the year. So before we start the

00:23:26.019 --> 00:23:29.329
season... We, like everybody, we go through the

00:23:29.329 --> 00:23:32.650
phases of improving power and improving technique,

00:23:32.789 --> 00:23:36.210
and it's going side by side. For sure, I won't

00:23:36.210 --> 00:23:43.369
spread our plans here, but to be honest, I think

00:23:43.369 --> 00:23:50.250
it's also, let's say, hard to compare or to say,

00:23:50.390 --> 00:23:53.829
hey, what Alex is doing, and I will do the same

00:23:53.829 --> 00:23:57.390
and get the same results. It's not working this

00:23:57.390 --> 00:24:01.329
way. And there are teams that are working on

00:24:01.329 --> 00:24:05.509
very different stuff. What we see in our field

00:24:05.509 --> 00:24:08.549
is also the root setting is really affecting

00:24:08.549 --> 00:24:12.470
the abilities that we need to have. So, for example,

00:24:12.470 --> 00:24:16.829
with the new style of setting, explosive power

00:24:16.829 --> 00:24:21.430
is more important than it used to be in the past.

00:24:23.099 --> 00:24:25.720
Of course, also in the past, we would train explosive

00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:30.299
power, but now we do it way more. Okay, or reaction

00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:34.480
time on the wall. Okay, so in these days with

00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:37.559
all the crazy coordination movement and parkour,

00:24:37.579 --> 00:24:40.740
reaction time is something that you have to train

00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:44.119
really, really a lot, a lot, a lot, because a

00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:46.779
lot of it is what's happening to my body in this

00:24:46.779 --> 00:24:50.119
second and how should I react for the occurring

00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:54.079
on the wall. And this is stuff that I can tell

00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:58.359
you easily. 10 years ago, we would barely deal

00:24:58.359 --> 00:25:01.460
with reaction time. How do you train reaction

00:25:01.460 --> 00:25:03.839
time? Is that something you're, is that a secret?

00:25:04.339 --> 00:25:08.940
Well, you know, it's not a secret, but there

00:25:08.940 --> 00:25:12.140
is a lot of methods of how to train reaction

00:25:12.140 --> 00:25:14.940
time. I think the best training for reaction

00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:18.420
time, we should ask speed coaches. Because this

00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:22.329
is like, yeah, you want to hear. I will tell

00:25:22.329 --> 00:25:25.369
you a funny story. It's pretty embarrassing for

00:25:25.369 --> 00:25:31.450
me, but I will be honest enough to tell it. Last

00:25:31.450 --> 00:25:34.109
year, the last competition of the season was

00:25:34.109 --> 00:25:36.930
in Korea, and it was boulder lead and speed.

00:25:37.529 --> 00:25:42.269
In our federation, it was the last competition,

00:25:42.450 --> 00:25:45.109
so we had some budget struggles, so we could

00:25:45.109 --> 00:25:48.289
not send too many coaches. So I was responsible

00:25:48.289 --> 00:25:51.519
for the first time. to also do the speed competition

00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:55.220
oh no never did a speed competition before i

00:25:55.220 --> 00:25:57.680
was literally sitting in the hotel the days before

00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:02.259
reading all the rules because you know i i i'm

00:26:02.259 --> 00:26:05.700
not so deep in the details like it's okay i know

00:26:05.700 --> 00:26:08.059
how speed climbing works and everything's fine

00:26:08.059 --> 00:26:11.099
but you know the the small the small stuff that

00:26:11.099 --> 00:26:15.319
you need to pay attention to um then i was sitting

00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:19.019
during the qualification I was sitting next to

00:26:19.019 --> 00:26:23.380
Yasui, the head coach of the Japanese team. We

00:26:23.380 --> 00:26:25.519
are friends. We are chatting about some athletes

00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:28.839
and what's going on. And qualification, they

00:26:28.839 --> 00:26:33.279
started running. And then I saw that the minute

00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:39.140
they are jumping into the climbing, the clocks

00:26:39.140 --> 00:26:43.319
that chose the time is like blinking in blue,

00:26:43.420 --> 00:26:46.539
something that I was not familiar with. I didn't

00:26:46.539 --> 00:26:50.160
know. what it means and after it blinks in blue

00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:52.619
it goes back to the red color and running the

00:26:52.619 --> 00:26:55.619
time and i was looking and i'm like something

00:26:55.619 --> 00:26:57.960
is wrong with the clock there is a problem with

00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:00.539
the clock and i was looking at yesu and i'm telling

00:27:00.539 --> 00:27:03.099
him hey hey i think there is a problem with the

00:27:03.099 --> 00:27:04.799
clock and i saw it again and again it looked

00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:08.259
so weird to me that i stood up i marked to the

00:27:08.259 --> 00:27:11.599
judge and then yesu is catching me in the back

00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:14.640
pulling me back to my seat and he tells me saggy

00:27:15.019 --> 00:27:18.160
It shows the reaction time. That's all. It's

00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:21.000
okay. Everything is fine. I was sure that the

00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:24.940
timing system is breaking down or something,

00:27:25.180 --> 00:27:29.019
but actually, and yeah, I was not aware of it

00:27:29.019 --> 00:27:31.400
and it's okay. I'm not a speed coach, but the

00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:33.500
first thing that the clock is doing is showing

00:27:33.500 --> 00:27:37.339
the reaction time. uh between the the last beep

00:27:37.339 --> 00:27:40.579
that symbol then they can they can go and the

00:27:40.579 --> 00:27:43.759
foot leaving the the pad it's okay i didn't i

00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:45.599
guess i didn't know that either i don't think

00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:48.279
i noticed it you you need to know speed climbing

00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:51.900
but in this moment being a coach most of the

00:27:51.900 --> 00:27:54.180
people in the coaching area they know me they

00:27:54.180 --> 00:27:57.000
know i'm like heading the the the boulder team

00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:00.059
of of germany And standing up and saying, ah,

00:28:00.180 --> 00:28:03.700
there is a problem with the clock. And no, Sagi,

00:28:03.779 --> 00:28:07.720
this is how speed climbing works. Yeah, it was

00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:09.839
funny. No, that's understandable. It would happen

00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:13.200
to me too. Okay, so yeah, earlier you mentioned

00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:17.299
that you feel like one of your main roles as

00:28:17.299 --> 00:28:20.559
coach is to help your athletes through competitions

00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:23.000
emotionally. They are very emotionally charged

00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:27.069
competitions. So what's your approach of... comforting

00:28:27.069 --> 00:28:29.869
someone who just had a terrible round i i think

00:28:29.869 --> 00:28:32.869
it's it's not a secret but i i think compared

00:28:32.869 --> 00:28:36.509
to other sports the the mentality have a crucial

00:28:36.509 --> 00:28:41.829
effect in climbing so you first need to kind

00:28:41.829 --> 00:28:45.069
of believe that you can do the move before you

00:28:45.069 --> 00:28:49.089
are actually able to do the move and i think

00:28:49.089 --> 00:28:53.670
something that that i understood when I started

00:28:53.670 --> 00:28:57.509
with coaching professional athletes in climbing,

00:28:57.690 --> 00:29:02.470
is that climbing is an individual sport, meaning

00:29:02.470 --> 00:29:05.630
there is only one athlete in the fight, correct?

00:29:05.730 --> 00:29:12.049
It's not a team. And the problem with climbing

00:29:12.049 --> 00:29:16.089
is that there is no one to counter your emotions.

00:29:16.210 --> 00:29:20.200
So tennis is an individual sport too. And I'm

00:29:20.200 --> 00:29:23.059
fighting someone. I see my fight. I see how he

00:29:23.059 --> 00:29:26.319
reacts. I see that he's getting frustrated or

00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:29.440
angry. And we are not just passing the balls.

00:29:29.539 --> 00:29:33.279
We are also passing emotions between us and reactions

00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.859
to these emotions. And it's the same with almost

00:29:36.859 --> 00:29:40.660
every individual sport. Running, you see the

00:29:40.660 --> 00:29:43.180
people run next to you. They are pushing you.

00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:45.700
When you see an athlete coming close to you,

00:29:45.740 --> 00:29:48.200
you have this energy to push a bit stronger.

00:29:50.020 --> 00:29:54.519
And climbing is very different because we don't

00:29:54.519 --> 00:29:57.839
have a fight, or at least we don't see our fight.

00:29:57.980 --> 00:30:02.180
The athlete is alone against the wall. So he

00:30:02.180 --> 00:30:05.539
has no interaction to counter his emotions or

00:30:05.539 --> 00:30:09.119
to check, am I good, am I not good? Not more

00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:12.059
than looking to the side for a second and seeing

00:30:12.059 --> 00:30:15.460
another athlete climbing another boulder. But

00:30:15.460 --> 00:30:21.140
you have no fight with you. From that, the conclusion

00:30:21.140 --> 00:30:24.779
is that the athletes in climbing, it's a pretty

00:30:24.779 --> 00:30:29.079
lonely sport. I'm alone. I sit alone in ISO.

00:30:29.299 --> 00:30:31.779
I sit alone in the call zone. I'm not allowed

00:30:31.779 --> 00:30:34.359
to communicate in the call zone, although we

00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:36.420
see some communication in the call zone, but

00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:39.440
it's not allowed basically. And then I go to

00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:42.940
the field of play and I don't have an enemy or

00:30:42.940 --> 00:30:46.839
a fight to go against. I'm alone. It's me against

00:30:46.839 --> 00:30:51.210
the wall. And in this situation, I think the

00:30:51.210 --> 00:30:54.990
best mental thing that I can do as a coach is

00:30:54.990 --> 00:30:58.410
try to give the athlete the feeling of together.

00:30:59.069 --> 00:31:03.490
Try to create a situation when the athlete hears

00:31:03.490 --> 00:31:06.829
my voice, he gets the feeling of, I'm not alone

00:31:06.829 --> 00:31:11.049
here. It's not only for me, it's for the coaches,

00:31:11.069 --> 00:31:15.970
for the team. Eventually... I think that it's

00:31:15.970 --> 00:31:21.130
also from a different perspective. It's how to

00:31:21.130 --> 00:31:25.730
say it in English. It's easier to quit on yourself

00:31:25.730 --> 00:31:29.950
than to quit on someone else. So when I wake

00:31:29.950 --> 00:31:32.430
up in the morning, I say I want to get fit. I'm

00:31:32.430 --> 00:31:34.710
going to run 10 kilometers every morning now.

00:31:34.910 --> 00:31:38.210
So I go to my 10 kilometer run. If I'm running

00:31:38.210 --> 00:31:42.210
alone, the... possibility of me stopping after

00:31:42.210 --> 00:31:45.390
five or six or eight kilometers and saying that

00:31:45.390 --> 00:31:50.609
that's enough for today it's good it's super

00:31:50.609 --> 00:31:54.750
high compare that if we go together if we say

00:31:54.750 --> 00:31:57.150
now we're gonna run 10 kilometers together i

00:31:57.150 --> 00:32:00.130
don't want to quit because i told you we're gonna

00:32:00.130 --> 00:32:02.490
run 10 kilometers together you don't want to

00:32:02.490 --> 00:32:04.970
quit because you said okay saggy let's run 10

00:32:04.970 --> 00:32:08.160
kilometers together and this mentality is We

00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:10.220
are pushing each other to keep it to the end

00:32:10.220 --> 00:32:13.339
line. But if I run alone, it's way easier to

00:32:13.339 --> 00:32:17.339
quit on the way. So it's another element why

00:32:17.339 --> 00:32:21.799
I want my athletes to feel that, yes, they are

00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:24.640
climbing eventually alone, but they are not alone

00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:28.539
mentally. There is a coach behind me. There is

00:32:28.539 --> 00:32:34.200
a team behind me. when when you do something

00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:38.279
not only for yourself only not only for your

00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:44.140
win then a team spirit can can push you a little

00:32:44.140 --> 00:32:48.700
bit harder it's true yeah it's it's an opinion

00:32:48.700 --> 00:32:51.799
i'm i'm not uh bringing like i'm not saying it's

00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:54.779
fact for sure there are some people that are

00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:57.220
better off alone no i mean it's definitely true

00:32:57.220 --> 00:33:01.079
but then i know in the past when i've i've had

00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:05.930
like coaches it it does push me to try harder

00:33:05.930 --> 00:33:11.690
but then if i try harder and i still fail then

00:33:11.690 --> 00:33:14.130
it feels so much worse because i know that someone

00:33:14.130 --> 00:33:16.750
was like behind me watching me and like hoping

00:33:16.750 --> 00:33:20.230
that i did well yes and the athletes are i'm

00:33:20.230 --> 00:33:22.490
really open with my athletes and the athletes

00:33:22.490 --> 00:33:26.369
know that when i'm disappointed with their performance

00:33:26.369 --> 00:33:30.559
they know i'm disappointed i don't Yeah, it hurts.

00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:34.119
You know, it's life. No, no. Think about it.

00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:37.400
The athletes are not the only competitors in

00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:40.240
the competition. You know, I am a competitor

00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:43.799
as well. I'm super competitive. This is why my

00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:48.039
career is competitive sport. If I was not a competitor

00:33:48.039 --> 00:33:51.819
myself, I would go be a mountain guide or teaching

00:33:51.819 --> 00:33:54.900
climbing outdoors, not necessarily being on the

00:33:54.900 --> 00:34:00.940
biggest stages in the world. To be honest, I

00:34:00.940 --> 00:34:03.400
think, and I'm not taking anything away from

00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:07.539
the athlete, from the specific athlete, but a

00:34:07.539 --> 00:34:11.360
failure in a competition is way bigger to the

00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:14.519
coach than to the athlete. And I will explain

00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:19.159
it because let's say I'm coming to a competition.

00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:21.960
I have 10 athletes competing, so five girls,

00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:26.800
five boys. One of them maybe is doing good and

00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:29.480
going to finals. Maybe two of them are going

00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:32.480
to finals and that's great. So the athlete that

00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:35.480
failed and didn't go to semis even, he's feeling

00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:39.920
bad for himself. This is like one person perspective.

00:34:40.699 --> 00:34:43.980
When my team, even when I have one or two athletes

00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:49.019
in finals, I still have four or eight athletes

00:34:49.019 --> 00:34:53.239
that lost the competition. So I lose for each

00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:56.739
one of them. When I finish a competition, I lost

00:34:56.739 --> 00:35:01.360
eight times. Not the personal one time. Now,

00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:03.780
it doesn't mean that my disappointment is bigger

00:35:03.780 --> 00:35:05.800
than the athletes. The athletes, it's basically

00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:09.659
their life. They are giving everything. And to

00:35:09.659 --> 00:35:13.989
put it on the table. Each one of the athletes

00:35:13.989 --> 00:35:18.530
or 99 .9 % of the athletes that are coming to

00:35:18.530 --> 00:35:21.530
fight in a World Cup, it's because they dedicate

00:35:21.530 --> 00:35:25.210
their life and they dedicate years of their life

00:35:25.210 --> 00:35:31.590
to this specific issue. And I'm not saying my

00:35:31.590 --> 00:35:35.190
disappointment is bigger. It's just, I don't

00:35:35.190 --> 00:35:38.010
know how to say it, wider. I don't know because

00:35:38.010 --> 00:35:44.599
I feel bad for each one of my athletes. I think

00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:49.860
the best World Cup that we ever had was Brixen

00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:54.480
in 22. And Brixen 22 was a competition when we

00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:58.099
had Yannick Floé winning the gold medal and we

00:35:58.099 --> 00:36:01.159
had Hannah Moyle winning the silver medal in

00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:05.539
female. It was amazing. It's an event that didn't

00:36:05.539 --> 00:36:08.199
happen 10 years before in Germany when we had...

00:36:08.429 --> 00:36:11.909
Two athletes from two genders. We had some medals

00:36:11.909 --> 00:36:15.210
for Jan Hoyer, some medals for Jula Worm. But

00:36:15.210 --> 00:36:18.130
both together didn't happen for many years in

00:36:18.130 --> 00:36:21.510
Germany. It was a great success. Still, in the

00:36:21.510 --> 00:36:25.469
end of the day, after finals, I did eight talks

00:36:25.469 --> 00:36:29.090
with losing athletes that were disappointed.

00:36:29.329 --> 00:36:32.750
And I was disappointed for them. And the end

00:36:32.750 --> 00:36:35.789
of the day, with all the joy of the medals. It

00:36:35.789 --> 00:36:39.849
didn't cover the big disappointment for the majority

00:36:39.849 --> 00:36:43.110
of the athletes. Yeah, I see. Okay, I guess that

00:36:43.110 --> 00:36:45.570
makes sense. I'll let you have that. Even though

00:36:45.570 --> 00:36:49.110
you have four chances to win, it's still a lot

00:36:49.110 --> 00:36:52.989
of losses. If it's interesting, I don't know.

00:36:53.090 --> 00:36:57.570
But we were fighting for Olympic tickets last

00:36:57.570 --> 00:37:01.630
year. We were fighting mainly for athletes. We

00:37:01.630 --> 00:37:05.090
had more fighting for the ticket. The main athletes

00:37:05.090 --> 00:37:08.130
were four athletes with the probability of fighting

00:37:08.130 --> 00:37:12.630
for Olympics. And out of these four, we were

00:37:12.630 --> 00:37:15.730
able to qualify three. So we got three tickets.

00:37:15.789 --> 00:37:20.170
Now, every reasonable person will say, that's

00:37:20.170 --> 00:37:22.570
a great success. You qualified three out of your

00:37:22.570 --> 00:37:27.849
four. That's amazing. For me, it was a terrible,

00:37:27.929 --> 00:37:31.599
terrible competition after the OQS. Because of

00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:34.920
this specific athlete that didn't qualify, the

00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:39.059
feeling of failure was bigger to me than being

00:37:39.059 --> 00:37:44.039
happy for the three tickets. It's mixed and it's

00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:48.619
hard. No, I think the losses always hurt more

00:37:48.619 --> 00:37:50.760
than the wins. I think that's kind of how life

00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:53.860
goes, unfortunately. Yeah, I mean, when I think

00:37:53.860 --> 00:37:55.980
about it, when I see coaches at competitions,

00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:58.619
they're often the ones who are most emotionally

00:37:58.619 --> 00:38:00.860
charged, like even more so than the athletes.

00:38:01.059 --> 00:38:04.199
I think a lot of times like the emotionally chargedness

00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:06.800
of coaches comes down to like decisions that

00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:10.659
were made at specific comps or like IFSC decisions.

00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:13.699
What are some things that you want to see changed

00:38:13.699 --> 00:38:17.920
as a coach? I think the main topic that all coaches

00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:21.539
are dealing with now, it's what will be the system

00:38:21.539 --> 00:38:24.719
that will qualify for the next Olympic for Los

00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:29.059
Angeles 28. And the urgent topic with the coaches

00:38:29.059 --> 00:38:32.280
commission, we are now establishing the coaches

00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:34.739
commission. It's still not done. The application

00:38:34.739 --> 00:38:37.500
process is done and we are waiting for confirmation

00:38:37.500 --> 00:38:41.760
of the names by the board of IFSC. And I think

00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:44.380
the first topic that will be on the table of

00:38:44.380 --> 00:38:48.340
the coach commission is what is the right way

00:38:48.340 --> 00:38:51.380
to qualify for Los Angeles? Because we have a

00:38:51.380 --> 00:38:59.119
very weird situation, let's say, when IFSC is

00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:01.639
the only federation and climbing is the only

00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:06.380
sport that got upgraded in two ways for the next

00:39:06.380 --> 00:39:09.769
Olympics. So we got another medal. And we got

00:39:09.769 --> 00:39:13.630
more places for athletes. So we know that every

00:39:13.630 --> 00:39:16.530
sport, they get two limitations, how many medals

00:39:16.530 --> 00:39:19.710
they can play on and how many athletes they can

00:39:19.710 --> 00:39:23.489
bring to the Olympics. Now, we are the only sport

00:39:23.489 --> 00:39:27.150
that got both of them raised, but still not to

00:39:27.150 --> 00:39:30.550
an ideal situation. So now with the new limitations

00:39:30.550 --> 00:39:32.969
that we got, we're going to have a medal per

00:39:32.969 --> 00:39:37.019
discipline. The amount of athletes that we can

00:39:37.019 --> 00:39:40.679
put in every discipline is very small. Boulder

00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:44.139
and lead are going to be 12 athletes per discipline.

00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:50.219
Yes. And for speed, it's going to be 14. Now,

00:39:50.219 --> 00:39:54.119
to IFSC and also to us, it's clear that a Boulder

00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:57.400
competition cannot run with 12 athletes. It's

00:39:57.400 --> 00:40:00.380
not enough. It's enough for a final. It's enough

00:40:00.380 --> 00:40:03.800
for one round. But it's not enough for more than

00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:08.360
one round. And what IFSC is trying to understand

00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:11.320
is how to play with the amount of athletes that

00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:15.000
they gave us. Because, for example, if I qualify

00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.519
for Olympics, I am one athlete, but I can compete

00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:24.880
in all disciplines. So actually, if 12 athletes

00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:28.010
from bouldering will compete in Elite 2, And

00:40:28.010 --> 00:40:30.230
the other way around, the 12 athletes that qualified

00:40:30.230 --> 00:40:33.110
for LEAD will compete Boulder too. We will actually

00:40:33.110 --> 00:40:36.610
get 24 athletes per discipline. And then it's,

00:40:36.610 --> 00:40:41.650
of course, better. And now the big question is,

00:40:41.909 --> 00:40:46.010
we were working so hard to get another medal

00:40:46.010 --> 00:40:49.349
and to separate the discipline because, to be

00:40:49.349 --> 00:40:52.510
honest, the majority of the climbing community

00:40:52.510 --> 00:40:56.900
don't like the combined format. But now it will

00:40:56.900 --> 00:40:59.179
be ridiculous that we got another medal, but

00:40:59.179 --> 00:41:02.420
still we will tell the athletes you have to do

00:41:02.420 --> 00:41:05.239
both because it's still combined. It's just another

00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:10.380
medal. So the question will be, how can we play

00:41:10.380 --> 00:41:16.840
with this situation? And how can we make it more

00:41:16.840 --> 00:41:22.059
established in a way that elite competition can

00:41:22.059 --> 00:41:25.960
run with 20 or more athletes? same for the boulder

00:41:25.960 --> 00:41:30.760
um and there is no good answers by the way nobody

00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:34.860
figure out like a magic solution here okay so

00:41:34.860 --> 00:41:38.159
i know like in that famous quote famous video

00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:42.840
in magnus's video you spread some public rumors

00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:45.880
that olympic qualifiers for 2028 will still be

00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:49.599
a combined format so now it's like it's not for

00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:53.949
sure it's it's still being decided This video

00:41:53.949 --> 00:41:57.469
got me into so much trouble with no reason. If

00:41:57.469 --> 00:41:59.590
you're interested in ad -free episodes and would

00:41:59.590 --> 00:42:01.909
like to unlock over four hours of deleted scenes,

00:42:02.170 --> 00:42:04.349
including one where Sagi talks about how his

00:42:04.349 --> 00:42:06.789
cultural background shapes his coaching for Team

00:42:06.789 --> 00:42:09.510
Germany, do consider helping support this podcast

00:42:09.510 --> 00:42:34.800
on Patreon. Back to the show. I was not supposed

00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:37.699
to appear on this video. I was just sitting in

00:42:37.699 --> 00:42:40.039
the background and helping them with stuff they

00:42:40.039 --> 00:42:44.480
needed in the gym, nothing more. It was, yeah,

00:42:44.579 --> 00:42:48.099
but it was a solid rumor that we started to hear

00:42:48.099 --> 00:42:51.679
in the beginning of the season around China and

00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:56.900
Brazil World Cups that IFSC have an idea to do

00:42:56.900 --> 00:42:59.420
the qualification for Olympic in the combined

00:42:59.420 --> 00:43:05.130
format. But since then, If we understood IFSC

00:43:05.130 --> 00:43:09.070
correctly, we had a conversation with Markov

00:43:09.070 --> 00:43:12.690
Skolaris, the president of IFSC in Bern, and

00:43:12.690 --> 00:43:15.670
he said that they understand that it's not going

00:43:15.670 --> 00:43:20.230
to happen in a combined format, but we still

00:43:20.230 --> 00:43:22.989
need to find a way how to make it happen. Of

00:43:22.989 --> 00:43:26.769
course, there are athletes in our field that

00:43:26.769 --> 00:43:30.269
would like to compete in both disciplines. Like

00:43:30.269 --> 00:43:33.380
we have athletes that... are controlling both

00:43:33.380 --> 00:43:35.400
of the disciplines and they are pretty good and

00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:39.260
that's nice but it's not the majority so we can

00:43:39.260 --> 00:43:44.400
mark maybe three to five athletes that really

00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:47.099
can do both disciplines in a really good way

00:43:47.099 --> 00:43:52.079
but the majority of athletes does have like a

00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:57.230
specialty discipline and yeah but I have no new

00:43:57.230 --> 00:44:00.630
information about the new ideas. I'm sure there

00:44:00.630 --> 00:44:03.429
are some ideas in the background, but I'm not

00:44:03.429 --> 00:44:08.250
aware of it. But again, this is relatively a

00:44:08.250 --> 00:44:12.030
big problem. If we talk about small problems

00:44:12.030 --> 00:44:14.809
that will come to coaches' commission, it will

00:44:14.809 --> 00:44:19.150
be, for example, this year we had a new pointing

00:44:19.150 --> 00:44:22.500
system for bouldering. So now we don't have a

00:44:22.500 --> 00:44:25.179
zone, we have a 10 -point mark, and then after

00:44:25.179 --> 00:44:28.820
the 10 -point mark, we have the top with 25 points.

00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:34.579
For each attempt, it's taking down 0 .1. So first

00:44:34.579 --> 00:44:38.460
problem, nobody likes to see numbers after the

00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:43.239
dot as a ranking. This is one. It's not important,

00:44:43.400 --> 00:44:47.059
it's just visualization. But the main problem

00:44:47.059 --> 00:44:52.610
is that in the old system, attempts to tops and

00:44:52.610 --> 00:44:55.550
attempts to zones didn't have the same meaning

00:44:55.550 --> 00:44:59.750
you know so so attempts to to top were more important

00:44:59.750 --> 00:45:04.769
than attempts to zone so now what we did is actually

00:45:04.769 --> 00:45:07.510
attempts to zone attempts to top meaning the

00:45:07.510 --> 00:45:12.130
same the 0 .1 and we got this year because of

00:45:12.130 --> 00:45:16.349
that so many ties during the competition like

00:45:16.349 --> 00:45:21.300
we saw multiple semi -finals with 25, 27 athletes

00:45:21.300 --> 00:45:25.019
instead of 24 because of all the ties that we

00:45:25.019 --> 00:45:28.079
had. Actually, in the first World Cup of the

00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:32.380
season in China, during the semifinals, because

00:45:32.380 --> 00:45:38.239
of all the ties that were created, the head of

00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:40.739
delegation in the competition already started

00:45:40.739 --> 00:45:44.400
a discussion in the semifinals how we will handle

00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:50.269
a situation of 10 or 11 athletes in finals. And

00:45:50.269 --> 00:45:54.449
it's problematic, not necessarily for the sport.

00:45:54.550 --> 00:45:56.989
Yeah, the final will be very long if we have

00:45:56.989 --> 00:46:02.849
10 or 11 athletes, but also because IFSC is broadcasted

00:46:02.849 --> 00:46:08.210
in multiple medias and you cannot say the final

00:46:08.210 --> 00:46:10.530
is going to be from 9 to 10 and then suddenly

00:46:10.530 --> 00:46:13.480
the final is from 9 to 11. Like, we're going

00:46:13.480 --> 00:46:15.800
to get cut off before the competition is done.

00:46:16.139 --> 00:46:18.380
Well, it hasn't happened yet where that many

00:46:18.380 --> 00:46:22.380
people went into finals. No, we had, by the way,

00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:27.400
we had nine people in finals. Oh. We were very

00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:31.679
lucky this season. We were very lucky. But it's

00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:34.079
clear that it needs to be changed. And there

00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:37.780
are easy solutions to it. Attempt to zone is

00:46:37.780 --> 00:46:41.519
0 .1. Attempt to top is 0 .2. The other way around,

00:46:41.639 --> 00:46:47.019
there are easy fixes for it. But if we talk about

00:46:47.019 --> 00:46:50.460
ties, you know that this year for the first time

00:46:50.460 --> 00:46:54.460
in IFSC history, there was a tie for the gold

00:46:54.460 --> 00:47:01.880
medal in female lead in Wuzhang in China. It

00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:04.820
was a historical moment. I don't think the athletes

00:47:04.820 --> 00:47:07.820
like this historical moment because IFSC was

00:47:07.820 --> 00:47:12.719
not ready with two gold medals. But yeah, it's

00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:15.480
the first time ever that doesn't matter if they

00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:18.900
went for count back or time or anything. Everything

00:47:18.900 --> 00:47:24.000
was exactly, exactly the same. It was an interesting

00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:27.179
incident. Yeah. Although that one wouldn't have

00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:29.980
been fixed with like, I mean, the point system

00:47:29.980 --> 00:47:32.860
didn't change for that. So it was just a crazy

00:47:32.860 --> 00:47:36.940
moment. I know you had also mentioned that you

00:47:36.940 --> 00:47:39.650
kind of think. I think this is kind of a hot

00:47:39.650 --> 00:47:43.010
take. You think that even as a bouldering coach,

00:47:43.110 --> 00:47:45.469
you think this is like getting into no longer

00:47:45.469 --> 00:47:50.969
real climbing territory. We can talk about it.

00:47:51.130 --> 00:47:54.909
Before that, I will say, if you are a route setter

00:47:54.909 --> 00:47:59.869
and you watch this podcast or hear this podcast,

00:48:00.170 --> 00:48:03.929
please know that I think route setting is amazing.

00:48:04.010 --> 00:48:07.289
And I think route setters are amazing. being

00:48:07.289 --> 00:48:10.369
professional and artist and all of that. And

00:48:10.369 --> 00:48:13.289
it's not criticism towards woodsetters that are

00:48:13.289 --> 00:48:16.869
trying to invent new moves and push the sport

00:48:16.869 --> 00:48:23.010
forward. But yeah, I do think there is some kind

00:48:23.010 --> 00:48:27.750
of movement when we cross the border between

00:48:27.750 --> 00:48:32.530
climbing and different kinds of sports that are

00:48:32.530 --> 00:48:37.230
great sports but are not climbing. Parkour is

00:48:37.230 --> 00:48:40.869
not climbing. It's crazy cool. I love it. It's

00:48:40.869 --> 00:48:44.769
great to watch it. But it's not necessarily climbing.

00:48:45.590 --> 00:48:53.190
But for me, the main problem, let's say, is all

00:48:53.190 --> 00:48:58.210
kinds of moves like sliding. Okay, so climbing

00:48:58.210 --> 00:49:03.500
is about... controlling your body is about positioning

00:49:03.500 --> 00:49:06.639
your body is about your strength about your body

00:49:06.639 --> 00:49:10.320
awareness now to put a huge volume on the wall

00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:14.019
that is dual texture and ask the climber to slide

00:49:14.019 --> 00:49:18.599
on it i i feel it's not more and and again it's

00:49:18.599 --> 00:49:21.739
a subjective perspective of mine like the the

00:49:21.739 --> 00:49:23.940
next guy will tell you no it's climbing and it's

00:49:23.940 --> 00:49:28.840
super cool um and it is cool but i think that

00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:32.110
for example And I have more examples, but sliding

00:49:32.110 --> 00:49:36.570
on a volume, I don't know if it's necessarily

00:49:36.570 --> 00:49:41.429
climbing, okay? It can be cool moves that people

00:49:41.429 --> 00:49:45.030
are doing, but I don't know. What else takes

00:49:45.030 --> 00:49:56.070
it too far for you? So stuff like... that we

00:49:56.070 --> 00:49:58.849
already saw in competitions and that I don't

00:49:58.849 --> 00:50:03.510
like. For example, handstand on the wall. Well,

00:50:03.630 --> 00:50:06.630
that's not allowed, right? That's allowed. There

00:50:06.630 --> 00:50:14.429
is no rule against handstand. There was a competition.

00:50:14.630 --> 00:50:19.710
It was Salt Lake 23, if I'm not mistaken, or

00:50:19.710 --> 00:50:25.110
23 or 24. I don't know. 23 for sure. Salt Lake

00:50:25.110 --> 00:50:30.309
23, the setters set a handstand and the head

00:50:30.309 --> 00:50:35.610
judge canceled the boulder because for his perspective,

00:50:35.690 --> 00:50:39.789
it was not safe because falling head down to

00:50:39.789 --> 00:50:42.369
the mattress, it's not a safe situation for him.

00:50:43.349 --> 00:50:47.989
But we did saw this move coming in. It was the

00:50:47.989 --> 00:50:51.329
quiff last year or the year before. And then

00:50:51.329 --> 00:50:55.300
they did the handstand and. It was super cool.

00:50:56.139 --> 00:51:00.360
Really. I liked watching it. I liked to see the

00:51:00.360 --> 00:51:05.380
athletes trying it. Is it climbing? I don't know.

00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:08.659
What do you think about this year's change in

00:51:08.659 --> 00:51:12.679
allowing downward dynos? For me, I have no problem

00:51:12.679 --> 00:51:17.260
with jumping down. I have a problem if it's a

00:51:17.260 --> 00:51:21.699
high risk for the athlete. So, for example, this

00:51:21.699 --> 00:51:24.599
year in the World Cup in Bern, we had the discussion

00:51:24.599 --> 00:51:28.199
around the boulder final number two or three

00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:31.960
with the crazy spin in the top of the boulder.

00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:37.480
And we saw some very harsh falling. The problem

00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:40.900
was not necessarily the move, but the whole constellation,

00:51:41.119 --> 00:51:43.219
like the mattress that they provided there were

00:51:43.219 --> 00:51:47.570
very, very new, so very, very stiff. And because

00:51:47.570 --> 00:51:51.570
of this, hard falls in an awkward position with

00:51:51.570 --> 00:51:55.909
your body can be very dangerous. Some of the

00:51:55.909 --> 00:52:01.329
coaches did a safety appeal. And I think also

00:52:01.329 --> 00:52:03.469
the competition was delayed a little bit, a few

00:52:03.469 --> 00:52:06.590
minutes, until IFSC figured out the issue and

00:52:06.590 --> 00:52:12.150
then decided to allow it and to let it go. Yeah,

00:52:12.170 --> 00:52:16.090
I don't like when we take unnecessary risks.

00:52:16.590 --> 00:52:19.650
on the body of the athletes. I mean, in that

00:52:19.650 --> 00:52:23.750
burn situation, are you happy with how it turned

00:52:23.750 --> 00:52:25.849
out? I mean, because I don't know what they would

00:52:25.849 --> 00:52:27.750
have done if they got rid of that one boulder.

00:52:27.949 --> 00:52:30.309
I feel like that would have been hard to deal

00:52:30.309 --> 00:52:34.909
with. So for me, I don't think what they have

00:52:34.909 --> 00:52:37.690
done, how it would affect the results or anything.

00:52:37.829 --> 00:52:41.610
For me, if it's risking the athletes, then it

00:52:41.610 --> 00:52:46.960
shouldn't be there. For me, the safety appeal

00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:50.480
should have accepted and the boulder should have

00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:54.960
been cancelled or at least be considered only

00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:57.440
till the zone although there is no rule talking

00:52:57.440 --> 00:53:05.519
about it. But it's happened so rarely that a

00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:07.940
boulder is getting cancelled in a competition.

00:53:08.099 --> 00:53:12.719
I saw it happen twice. Once because of weather,

00:53:12.920 --> 00:53:15.460
like the wall was wet on this side. And then,

00:53:15.500 --> 00:53:23.619
of course, they cancel it. And in 2017 or 2018,

00:53:23.860 --> 00:53:27.199
I don't remember exactly, in a youth competition

00:53:27.199 --> 00:53:32.260
in Graz in Austria, there was a dyno to the top

00:53:32.260 --> 00:53:36.599
hold. It was dangerous. People knew it was dangerous.

00:53:36.679 --> 00:53:40.239
People saw the risk of it. But the competition

00:53:40.239 --> 00:53:43.760
ran until one athlete fell and broke his foot.

00:53:44.380 --> 00:53:49.440
It was a very hard incident. And then the boulder

00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:54.019
got canceled. After an athlete completely broke

00:53:54.019 --> 00:54:03.510
his foot, it was not a delight to see it. I think

00:54:03.510 --> 00:54:06.309
this is another, we talked about it before, about

00:54:06.309 --> 00:54:09.550
the sport is exploding, but there is still not

00:54:09.550 --> 00:54:13.610
professional people running in this level. So,

00:54:13.630 --> 00:54:19.590
for example, we have no concrete rules or guidelines

00:54:19.590 --> 00:54:23.369
about how stiff the mattress should be or how

00:54:23.369 --> 00:54:27.449
soft the mattress should be. It's all kind of

00:54:27.449 --> 00:54:30.070
stuff, kind of rules that we are taking from

00:54:30.070 --> 00:54:33.190
other sports, but we don't have professional

00:54:33.190 --> 00:54:36.829
people handling this specific issue. I'm sure

00:54:36.829 --> 00:54:39.630
that IFSC have it on its table. It's just that

00:54:39.630 --> 00:54:43.110
you need to run after many, many, many stuff.

00:54:43.349 --> 00:54:47.250
And I'm sure this subject will be addressed soon.

00:54:47.469 --> 00:54:50.489
Good to know. Yeah, just going back to, I guess,

00:54:50.489 --> 00:54:53.130
like the kind of movement we see in competitions

00:54:53.130 --> 00:54:58.489
nowadays. I feel like in my mind, a lot of the

00:54:58.489 --> 00:55:03.710
athletes growing up in youth nowadays, I feel

00:55:03.710 --> 00:55:06.530
like a lot more of them want to only climb on

00:55:06.530 --> 00:55:09.130
plastic anyway. And maybe this is something they're

00:55:09.130 --> 00:55:11.829
more used to now. So maybe it won't really be

00:55:11.829 --> 00:55:16.469
how you think so. I think I was a history teacher

00:55:16.469 --> 00:55:20.329
in school. And I think you should at least know

00:55:20.329 --> 00:55:26.059
your history. I have no problem with development.

00:55:26.199 --> 00:55:30.380
I have no problem that climbing is now competition,

00:55:30.500 --> 00:55:34.820
competition, bouldering. It's not bouldering

00:55:34.820 --> 00:55:38.139
outdoors. Those are two different sports that

00:55:38.139 --> 00:55:41.019
you train completely different to those kinds

00:55:41.019 --> 00:55:45.179
of fields. And I have no problem with that. But

00:55:45.179 --> 00:55:51.119
I, I do think that we, yeah, we, we came to a

00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:55.539
point. That now, as you said, there are many

00:55:55.539 --> 00:55:58.360
kids that are, we call them gym rats, you know,

00:55:58.420 --> 00:56:01.860
that they are jumping amazing. They are doing

00:56:01.860 --> 00:56:05.420
crazy parkour stuff. They can switch their hands

00:56:05.420 --> 00:56:07.840
like 10 times before they stop. They do beautiful

00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:11.599
stuff. But if you take them to magic wood, they

00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:14.579
are not capable of climbing a 7B, you know, because

00:56:14.579 --> 00:56:17.340
then you need to be static, control your body,

00:56:17.480 --> 00:56:19.679
hold the crimp, deal with the pain of holding

00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:26.699
this sharp crimp. But I think like most of, I

00:56:26.699 --> 00:56:30.820
don't know, developing sports, I'm accepting

00:56:30.820 --> 00:56:33.300
it. It's okay. It's a different sport what I

00:56:33.300 --> 00:56:37.980
do now than what we do outdoors. And of course

00:56:37.980 --> 00:56:42.420
there are, you know, it's a different generation

00:56:42.420 --> 00:56:45.760
and it's completely okay. I don't want to be

00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:49.880
this, you know, this... old generation that says,

00:56:49.900 --> 00:56:53.239
oh, the youth is hearing terrible music. You

00:56:53.239 --> 00:56:55.659
know, the same that my father told me that my

00:56:55.659 --> 00:56:58.679
music is terrible and his father told him. It's

00:56:58.679 --> 00:57:02.199
just a new generation. And I think I have two

00:57:02.199 --> 00:57:07.920
options here. And it's something that I tell

00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:11.679
my athletes when they are frustrated with the

00:57:11.679 --> 00:57:15.199
style of setting. I say, well, you know, this

00:57:15.199 --> 00:57:18.780
is the game. It's our choice now if to play it

00:57:18.780 --> 00:57:21.119
or not to play it. And if we don't want to play

00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:24.000
this kind of game, it's okay. Don't play it.

00:57:24.019 --> 00:57:26.960
Go outdoors. Go do what you want to do. But if

00:57:26.960 --> 00:57:30.219
we choose to play this game, we have to recognize

00:57:30.219 --> 00:57:33.139
that this is the game and this is what we need

00:57:33.139 --> 00:57:35.500
to do. The first thing that comes to mind when

00:57:35.500 --> 00:57:38.510
I hear that is that... I know Yannick was very

00:57:38.510 --> 00:57:42.969
outspoken about the setting being a little bit

00:57:42.969 --> 00:57:47.670
no longer his style and no longer powerful and

00:57:47.670 --> 00:57:51.690
hard crimps and stuff like that. Yes, Yannick

00:57:51.690 --> 00:57:56.070
has a lot of feelings about this new generation

00:57:56.070 --> 00:57:59.829
of bouldering and where does it take him. And

00:57:59.829 --> 00:58:04.030
many times he heard me say, this is the game.

00:58:04.130 --> 00:58:09.919
If you want to play it, this is the game. And,

00:58:09.919 --> 00:58:14.519
you know, we need to start working with the next

00:58:14.519 --> 00:58:17.880
generation. Yannick Flo is an amazing climber

00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:22.599
and I think easily top three when we talk about

00:58:22.599 --> 00:58:30.360
power and his ability to climb. But now in the

00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:33.679
competitions, you are not judged by your power

00:58:33.679 --> 00:58:37.639
anymore like it used to be. You are judged by

00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:42.000
new parameters and a thousand new abilities that

00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:45.639
you need to have. Sometimes it's hard to catch

00:58:45.639 --> 00:58:49.400
up when you don't start as a young kid with this

00:58:49.400 --> 00:58:52.840
kind of style and movements. And this is, you

00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:54.639
know, this is something interesting. When we

00:58:54.639 --> 00:58:57.690
look at the athletes that are more... Old, old.

00:58:57.849 --> 00:59:01.309
Yannick just a few days ago celebrated 26. I

00:59:01.309 --> 00:59:05.610
wish I was 26. It's not being old, but I mean

00:59:05.610 --> 00:59:09.309
the older generation, you know, they had their

00:59:09.309 --> 00:59:12.329
own style. They had their different style. And

00:59:12.329 --> 00:59:17.530
it's not only Yannick, you know, it's also Yoshiyuki

00:59:17.530 --> 00:59:20.889
and it's also Jakob Schubert. And it's athletes

00:59:20.889 --> 00:59:25.510
from the old generation or the older generation.

00:59:26.480 --> 00:59:29.480
that used to have a different kind of climbing

00:59:29.480 --> 00:59:32.099
on the wall and there were winning competitions

00:59:32.099 --> 00:59:34.380
with the old style and now the style changed

00:59:34.380 --> 00:59:38.440
and you have two options or you adapt or you

00:59:38.440 --> 00:59:42.440
just go away that's both of them are completely

00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:46.260
acceptable some of the athletes are capable of

00:59:46.260 --> 00:59:51.460
of adapting some some not and You know, for example,

00:59:51.719 --> 00:59:55.719
Yannick, he loves climbing so much and he loves

00:59:55.719 --> 01:00:02.920
competing so much that I think for him, for example,

01:00:02.920 --> 01:00:06.340
all the hard work that we did in 24 to qualify

01:00:06.340 --> 01:00:10.440
for Olympics was not bicep curls. He is strong

01:00:10.440 --> 01:00:14.199
enough. Most of the work that we did was... handling

01:00:14.199 --> 01:00:17.820
the new moves how to how to find myself in dynamic

01:00:17.820 --> 01:00:21.619
coordination movements how to do slabs this was

01:00:21.619 --> 01:00:24.400
the majority of the work that we did and i think

01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:27.039
we were pretty successful with doing the best

01:00:27.039 --> 01:00:30.800
we can with this um and i don't know if you know

01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:33.480
this year for example he decided not to compete

01:00:33.480 --> 01:00:36.400
in bouldering because for him bouldering he needs

01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:39.239
a break of it and that's that's completely fine

01:00:39.239 --> 01:00:44.219
and lead is more let's say more basic style or

01:00:44.219 --> 01:00:48.519
more um fitting to what he likes to climb yeah

01:00:48.519 --> 01:00:52.019
and it's really important to like uh what you're

01:00:52.019 --> 01:00:54.860
climbing otherwise you have no chance you know

01:00:54.860 --> 01:00:57.579
even if you are winning off all the time but

01:00:57.579 --> 01:01:00.980
you don't like it then you're not going to to

01:01:00.980 --> 01:01:04.699
survive you know and these athletes they are

01:01:04.699 --> 01:01:09.159
dedicating their life so hard to to this sport

01:01:09.159 --> 01:01:13.960
that they need they they like it you cannot wake

01:01:13.960 --> 01:01:16.760
up in the morning every morning to do hard trainings

01:01:16.760 --> 01:01:21.380
and and uh be wear down all day long and and

01:01:21.380 --> 01:01:24.980
be you know it's it's tiring you are skipping

01:01:24.980 --> 01:01:28.699
friends you are skipping nights out you are not

01:01:28.699 --> 01:01:31.900
drinking like a lot of stuff that if you ask

01:01:31.900 --> 01:01:36.000
me about my early 20s i love to party you know

01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:40.320
i i was i was all over but if you are a professional

01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:43.480
athlete athlete you're skipping a lot of these

01:01:43.480 --> 01:01:48.940
uh pleasures not all the time but but yeah so

01:01:48.940 --> 01:01:51.739
you need to love what you do do your athletes

01:01:51.739 --> 01:01:55.039
not drink i know that some athletes in the in

01:01:55.039 --> 01:01:58.440
the circuit love to drink a lot so i guess um

01:01:58.440 --> 01:02:04.780
my athletes sometimes they drink it's not nobody's

01:02:04.780 --> 01:02:09.039
a nun you know but uh they they don't drink like

01:02:09.909 --> 01:02:13.789
normal people in their age uh drink they don't

01:02:13.789 --> 01:02:17.429
get first of all i think maybe they hide it from

01:02:17.429 --> 01:02:21.309
me but i think they don't get drunk in a way

01:02:21.309 --> 01:02:23.230
that you don't remember what you did the next

01:02:23.230 --> 01:02:26.070
morning they drink a beer here they drink a beer

01:02:26.070 --> 01:02:31.409
there um sometimes after the competition we will

01:02:31.409 --> 01:02:35.510
go drink like If we won, we want to drink and

01:02:35.510 --> 01:02:38.329
celebrate it. If we lost, we want to drink to

01:02:38.329 --> 01:02:46.969
drown our sorrow. I have one or two athletes

01:02:46.969 --> 01:02:49.550
that are not drinking alcohol, but not as a principle.

01:02:49.650 --> 01:02:53.769
They don't like it. This isn't like a thing that

01:02:53.769 --> 01:02:56.610
you have a requirement for the team or anything.

01:02:57.659 --> 01:03:00.840
Okay, good to know. Yeah, just thinking about

01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:03.719
the German team as a whole for a second, are

01:03:03.719 --> 01:03:05.860
there any unique challenges you feel like the

01:03:05.860 --> 01:03:09.139
German team is facing right now? I'm thinking

01:03:09.139 --> 01:03:14.519
what will be the correct way to present these

01:03:14.519 --> 01:03:16.920
challenges. I think every team has challenges.

01:03:17.039 --> 01:03:20.019
Also, the most successful teams in the world

01:03:20.019 --> 01:03:25.300
have their own challenges. Specifically in Germany,

01:03:25.400 --> 01:03:30.260
I can say it in my perspective again, that the

01:03:30.260 --> 01:03:34.679
main struggle is the way that professional sport

01:03:34.679 --> 01:03:40.840
is perceived in Germany. Okay, so it's hard to

01:03:40.840 --> 01:03:48.329
be an athlete in Germany. We say the German mothers

01:03:48.329 --> 01:03:52.230
prefer to have engineers or doctors or lawyers

01:03:52.230 --> 01:03:57.389
or accountants. It's less like that. But also

01:03:57.389 --> 01:03:59.789
my mother is kind of the same. My mother still

01:03:59.789 --> 01:04:03.809
calls me every weekend and asks me, Sagi, when

01:04:03.809 --> 01:04:06.170
will you stop with this climbing game and go

01:04:06.170 --> 01:04:13.190
do your real job? So yes, it's hard. And the

01:04:13.190 --> 01:04:16.300
biggest struggles that we had the last... year

01:04:16.300 --> 01:04:20.360
is a budget struggle we are lucky enough that

01:04:20.360 --> 01:04:26.280
our mother federation the dav is a relatively

01:04:26.280 --> 01:04:31.000
strong organization also financially so they

01:04:31.000 --> 01:04:34.619
could cover a lot of our problems but but most

01:04:34.619 --> 01:04:37.880
of them are are still open and we have some budget

01:04:37.880 --> 01:04:42.099
struggles as i told you a huge country like germany

01:04:42.099 --> 01:04:45.559
and when when the the dav by the way it's the

01:04:45.559 --> 01:04:49.099
biggest climbing federation in the world. Wow,

01:04:49.139 --> 01:04:52.659
really? Yes. And it's one of the top five biggest

01:04:52.659 --> 01:04:57.820
sport organizations in Germany. But we still

01:04:57.820 --> 01:05:00.880
struggled. For example, last year in Korea, we

01:05:00.880 --> 01:05:03.559
still struggled to send another coach that will

01:05:03.559 --> 01:05:08.159
do the speed. This year, it's the first year

01:05:08.159 --> 01:05:11.400
when some of the German athletes have to pay

01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:15.429
their own competitions. yeah till last year everything

01:05:15.429 --> 01:05:18.550
was fully paid all the athletes all the work

01:05:18.550 --> 01:05:21.690
everything this year started to change our budget

01:05:21.690 --> 01:05:27.010
is in a struggle situation and now the a team

01:05:27.010 --> 01:05:30.829
is getting paid the the lower ranked athletes

01:05:30.829 --> 01:05:35.670
are um self -paid for some of the the the situation

01:05:35.670 --> 01:05:41.309
so it's not so easy um yeah it's not so easy

01:05:41.309 --> 01:05:44.800
budget wise but Again, we are far from being

01:05:44.800 --> 01:05:47.719
the only federation that is struggling with finance

01:05:47.719 --> 01:05:52.360
in our community. The Japanese team, by far the

01:05:52.360 --> 01:05:55.139
number one team in the world, have huge struggles

01:05:55.139 --> 01:05:58.659
with budgets. What do you think necessarily happened

01:05:58.659 --> 01:06:01.860
between two years ago or last year and this year

01:06:01.860 --> 01:06:04.599
that, I guess, made it harder with the budget?

01:06:04.880 --> 01:06:11.920
For us specifically? For the DAV? So, first of

01:06:11.920 --> 01:06:16.179
all, uh inflation you know okay the the ifsc

01:06:16.179 --> 01:06:19.159
circuit is becoming more and more expensive we

01:06:19.159 --> 01:06:22.960
are required to um go to further and further

01:06:22.960 --> 01:06:26.139
places all around the world and the schedule

01:06:26.139 --> 01:06:29.099
is getting bigger with the countries that we

01:06:29.099 --> 01:06:32.320
need to arrive to and from the other hand um

01:06:32.320 --> 01:06:36.420
we need to stay longer in in in each event so

01:06:36.420 --> 01:06:41.300
so um for example we started this season with

01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:45.380
World Cup bouldering in China, then lead World

01:06:45.380 --> 01:06:48.420
Cup in China, speed World Cup in China, and then

01:06:48.420 --> 01:06:54.059
lead World Cup in Indonesia. And we had to keep

01:06:54.059 --> 01:07:00.739
all the team for so long in Asia. And this year

01:07:00.739 --> 01:07:04.300
suddenly appeared a competition in South America.

01:07:04.380 --> 01:07:07.699
We were in Brazil for the first time this season.

01:07:08.409 --> 01:07:11.369
And a week after it was Salt Lake. And actually

01:07:11.369 --> 01:07:15.789
to arrive from Brazil to Salt Lake was more expensive

01:07:15.789 --> 01:07:21.150
than arriving from Europe to Salt Lake. So under

01:07:21.150 --> 01:07:25.849
these circumstances, and, you know, now we are

01:07:25.849 --> 01:07:27.969
going again. The end of the season, we go to

01:07:27.969 --> 01:07:34.050
Korea. It's a lot of money that teams are spending

01:07:34.050 --> 01:07:36.969
on this circuit around the world, traveling and

01:07:36.969 --> 01:07:41.210
traveling. And yeah, our field is still not commercial

01:07:41.210 --> 01:07:48.269
enough to earn enough money for it not to be

01:07:48.269 --> 01:07:52.719
a problem, you know? Yeah, I see. Yeah, we saw

01:07:52.719 --> 01:07:55.519
a lot of federations coming with less athletes

01:07:55.519 --> 01:07:58.639
to competitions. You know, they have a quota

01:07:58.639 --> 01:08:01.079
of five and five, but they are coming only two

01:08:01.079 --> 01:08:03.360
and two because this is the budget they have.

01:08:05.119 --> 01:08:11.019
And it's a true struggle here in Germany. I think

01:08:11.019 --> 01:08:14.239
maybe it will be solved the next year or two.

01:08:14.820 --> 01:08:19.600
Olympics is helping a little bit, but yeah, not

01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:22.720
as much as we need. I think I've heard that the

01:08:22.720 --> 01:08:27.220
IFSC wants to do it in these new areas to like,

01:08:27.220 --> 01:08:31.899
I guess, expand reach and expand like the global,

01:08:32.079 --> 01:08:36.399
something globally about climbing. It's coming

01:08:36.399 --> 01:08:40.579
from Olympics. The base of Olympics, it's the

01:08:40.579 --> 01:08:45.000
five continents coming together. So yeah, IFSC.

01:08:45.760 --> 01:08:48.640
needs to spread out. And I think it's amazing.

01:08:48.800 --> 01:08:51.720
I loved when I saw Brazil on the schedule. I

01:08:51.720 --> 01:08:57.199
was super hyped about it. That's amazing. Although

01:08:57.199 --> 01:09:01.199
I'm not sure that it's going to happen again

01:09:01.199 --> 01:09:05.479
next year. Oh, in Brazil. Yeah, I don't think

01:09:05.479 --> 01:09:10.039
so. Not because the IFSC don't want to, probably

01:09:10.039 --> 01:09:12.899
because the local federation is struggling with

01:09:12.899 --> 01:09:15.460
raising the budget to produce the competition.

01:09:16.699 --> 01:09:20.079
World Cups are also very expensive to produce,

01:09:20.340 --> 01:09:26.399
you know, till 2019. We had the legendary World

01:09:26.399 --> 01:09:29.300
Cup in Munich every year. The Munich World Cup

01:09:29.300 --> 01:09:32.000
was one of the biggest ones. He always finished

01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:34.739
the season. There was a huge party around it.

01:09:34.800 --> 01:09:38.479
It was a really hyped World Cup. And yeah, the

01:09:38.479 --> 01:09:43.100
DAV stopped doing it because the cost of producing

01:09:43.100 --> 01:09:47.239
World Cups, it's getting crazy. Do you know the

01:09:47.239 --> 01:09:51.359
cost right now? Yeah, I'm just not... I'm just

01:09:51.359 --> 01:09:54.920
not sure that I should speak in numbers, but

01:09:54.920 --> 01:10:02.060
I think that the basic World Cups are costing

01:10:02.060 --> 01:10:07.920
federations more than you think. It's a lot of

01:10:07.920 --> 01:10:13.460
money. I think it easily can come to a million.

01:10:14.800 --> 01:10:17.840
I'm sure that federations, yeah, they're doing

01:10:17.840 --> 01:10:21.119
it cheaper because we are taking shortcuts. But

01:10:21.119 --> 01:10:24.539
I think it's almost impossible to produce a World

01:10:24.539 --> 01:10:28.479
Cup these days with less than 400 or 500. Oh,

01:10:28.539 --> 01:10:30.260
that's more than I thought. Because the last

01:10:30.260 --> 01:10:33.560
I heard, it was like 100 ,000. So that's much

01:10:33.560 --> 01:10:36.779
more than I thought before. Also depends in the

01:10:36.779 --> 01:10:39.680
location. So for example, I believe that Salt

01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:43.000
Lake is relatively cheap. Because they own the

01:10:43.000 --> 01:10:45.439
facility, they do what they want in the facility,

01:10:45.640 --> 01:10:49.819
and so cheap. But if you look at the new World

01:10:49.819 --> 01:10:53.739
Cups, look at Bern, look at Prague, those venues

01:10:53.739 --> 01:10:59.140
are being, not how you say, they build them for

01:10:59.140 --> 01:11:02.500
the competition. They rent this park or they

01:11:02.500 --> 01:11:05.739
rent these huge stadiums. Only the rent for these

01:11:05.739 --> 01:11:09.949
stadiums, it's tens of thousands of euros. They

01:11:09.949 --> 01:11:13.510
build a portable wall, everything. Yeah, it's

01:11:13.510 --> 01:11:18.850
getting pretty expensive. Okay, so moving on

01:11:18.850 --> 01:11:21.369
a little bit, I guess we already talked about

01:11:21.369 --> 01:11:24.289
the Olympics a bit, but thinking more about 2028,

01:11:24.569 --> 01:11:27.670
what are you excited to see? Or do you have any

01:11:27.670 --> 01:11:30.609
predictions? First of all, I've never been in

01:11:30.609 --> 01:11:33.149
Los Angeles. I'm super excited to go to Los Angeles.

01:11:33.550 --> 01:11:36.449
Oh, great. It's a great place. I've been in the

01:11:36.449 --> 01:11:40.489
U .S. four times in my life. And all the four

01:11:40.489 --> 01:11:44.829
times were in Salt Lake. So I need to spread

01:11:44.829 --> 01:11:51.069
around a little bit. What am I excited to see?

01:11:51.390 --> 01:11:54.130
First of all, Olympics with three medals. It's

01:11:54.130 --> 01:11:56.590
something that we wanted for many years. And

01:11:56.590 --> 01:12:04.229
I'm very excited about that. Also, I want...

01:12:04.800 --> 01:12:09.739
this Olympics to kind of symbol a new era of

01:12:09.739 --> 01:12:13.659
bouldering specifically. I think the format that

01:12:13.659 --> 01:12:17.340
we are working with now is not a good format,

01:12:17.399 --> 01:12:20.500
not for Olympics and not generally commercially.

01:12:20.819 --> 01:12:28.380
And I hope that the IFSC is working on bringing

01:12:28.380 --> 01:12:33.510
better formats. You know, it's scary to think

01:12:33.510 --> 01:12:36.130
about a new format because we need to change

01:12:36.130 --> 01:12:38.930
everything. The base of the format is not good.

01:12:39.350 --> 01:12:45.750
If I ask why we compete on four boulders, nobody

01:12:45.750 --> 01:12:49.289
knows why it's four boulders. Why we give them

01:12:49.289 --> 01:12:55.489
four minutes on the boulder? I don't know. What

01:12:55.489 --> 01:13:00.729
I know is that what's... I think it's wrong with

01:13:00.729 --> 01:13:04.550
the format. And again, I love competitions. I

01:13:04.550 --> 01:13:07.529
love boulder competitions because I'm a boulderer

01:13:07.529 --> 01:13:10.890
and I understand what's happening. But think

01:13:10.890 --> 01:13:18.510
about it as a non -athlete. We present no fight.

01:13:18.770 --> 01:13:22.289
So the majority of people in the world are going

01:13:22.289 --> 01:13:28.130
back to our nature instinct. We like to see fight.

01:13:28.250 --> 01:13:31.390
We like to see blood. The first sport documented

01:13:31.390 --> 01:13:35.449
is gladiators, okay? Sure. We need to see two

01:13:35.449 --> 01:13:38.189
people fighting each other, not necessarily boxing,

01:13:38.390 --> 01:13:42.710
but you know what I mean. And when we see a climber

01:13:42.710 --> 01:13:46.050
climb, we don't see the fight. This is why speed

01:13:46.050 --> 01:13:48.229
climbing is so interesting because we see two

01:13:48.229 --> 01:13:52.449
athletes fighting each other. So you don't need

01:13:52.449 --> 01:13:54.850
to understand if the hold is good or bad. You

01:13:54.850 --> 01:13:58.899
know who is winning. And we don't have it in

01:13:58.899 --> 01:14:02.939
bouldering. Also, it's hard to get the perspective

01:14:02.939 --> 01:14:06.479
you need. But in bouldering, you really don't

01:14:06.479 --> 01:14:08.979
know. If you are not a climber and you don't

01:14:08.979 --> 01:14:11.960
know, oh, this big sloper is so hard to hold,

01:14:12.239 --> 01:14:19.279
it's nothing for you. And so this is a big element

01:14:19.279 --> 01:14:21.539
that I think we are missing. We are missing the

01:14:21.539 --> 01:14:24.680
fight to see two athletes. fighting each other

01:14:24.680 --> 01:14:28.380
and we can easily tell who is the the winner

01:14:28.380 --> 01:14:31.159
or who have the the advantage now or whatever

01:14:31.159 --> 01:14:35.359
and the second thing because of the format that

01:14:35.359 --> 01:14:38.279
we use today think about the absurd situation

01:14:38.279 --> 01:14:42.819
that you are in finals and yanya is in finals

01:14:42.819 --> 01:14:46.899
okay yanya is coming out flashing all the boulders

01:14:46.899 --> 01:14:50.539
okay and you are coming out and you are struggling

01:14:50.539 --> 01:14:55.470
to even get the zone So what we see as audience

01:14:55.470 --> 01:14:59.569
on the screen, we see our best athlete, the star,

01:14:59.810 --> 01:15:03.350
the Messi of climbing. We see it 20 to 30 seconds

01:15:03.350 --> 01:15:06.869
on the screen. And then we see four minutes in

01:15:06.869 --> 01:15:12.130
a row of the worst athlete just failing on live.

01:15:12.310 --> 01:15:15.210
And, you know, can you imagine a situation that

01:15:15.210 --> 01:15:18.569
the football game is the camera is not running

01:15:18.569 --> 01:15:23.649
after Messi and just focusing on a random. No,

01:15:23.789 --> 01:15:28.270
it won't happen, you know. So we actually give

01:15:28.270 --> 01:15:32.909
more screen time to the less attractive athletes

01:15:32.909 --> 01:15:37.069
and less screen time to the best athletes that

01:15:37.069 --> 01:15:40.590
we have, to the stars. And this is a weird concept

01:15:40.590 --> 01:15:46.449
in general. And we should think how, and what

01:15:46.449 --> 01:15:50.609
I think is... It's not about changing it, small

01:15:50.609 --> 01:15:53.829
changes, like saying, okay, let's do it two minutes

01:15:53.829 --> 01:15:56.689
or let's do three boulders. It's not these kind

01:15:56.689 --> 01:16:00.270
of changes. We need to have a new format to this

01:16:00.270 --> 01:16:03.550
game. And it's not easy to do something like

01:16:03.550 --> 01:16:08.609
that because it's hard to shake away old perspectives

01:16:08.609 --> 01:16:13.810
and how we perceive bouldering these days. But

01:16:13.810 --> 01:16:16.329
it will have to change. It will take some years.

01:16:17.149 --> 01:16:19.750
It will have to come. Do you have like an idea

01:16:19.750 --> 01:16:23.189
of what you think would be most ideal? Yes. Okay.

01:16:24.050 --> 01:16:27.350
You don't want to share it? I don't want to discuss

01:16:27.350 --> 01:16:31.710
it. I'm sure a lot of people in our industry

01:16:31.710 --> 01:16:34.810
have great ideas. So it's not like I'm saying

01:16:34.810 --> 01:16:37.909
I have the best one, blah, blah, blah. I have

01:16:37.909 --> 01:16:40.329
an idea for a format that I will think will be

01:16:40.329 --> 01:16:43.270
more attractive to audience. The reason I prefer

01:16:43.270 --> 01:16:45.510
not to talk about it is because I'm trying to

01:16:45.510 --> 01:16:49.130
push it. Like I'm trying to go to IFSC with these

01:16:49.130 --> 01:16:55.250
ideas and to test them. IFSC is doing test events

01:16:55.250 --> 01:17:00.029
in the end of every season. So last season, yeah,

01:17:00.069 --> 01:17:03.189
last season there was test event for speed formats.

01:17:03.949 --> 01:17:08.510
You heard about it? so yeah so it it happened

01:17:08.510 --> 01:17:11.369
in in spain and they did an event they invited

01:17:11.369 --> 01:17:14.409
athletes it was not with points or going to the

01:17:14.409 --> 01:17:17.390
record or anything it was just a test event and

01:17:17.390 --> 01:17:20.890
they tried to to test new formats for speed like

01:17:20.890 --> 01:17:25.569
relay speed or group speed or those stuff uh

01:17:25.569 --> 01:17:31.880
this year in in the end of uh in october We have

01:17:31.880 --> 01:17:36.300
a test event for a new format for Boulder and

01:17:36.300 --> 01:17:40.760
Lead happening in Japan. Oh, okay. I had no idea.

01:17:40.979 --> 01:17:48.060
Yeah, for a group format. Something new. I'm

01:17:48.060 --> 01:17:50.939
not saying if I like it or not, just saying IFSC

01:17:50.939 --> 01:17:54.500
is trying all the time and testing those formats

01:17:54.500 --> 01:17:59.039
all the time. It's not broadcasted or anything

01:17:59.039 --> 01:18:03.720
ever. Maybe it will. No, I think it will be broadcasted.

01:18:03.720 --> 01:18:06.439
You can find all information on the IFSC. They

01:18:06.439 --> 01:18:11.359
did a press release about this competition two

01:18:11.359 --> 01:18:20.380
or three weeks ago. It's involving only the six

01:18:20.380 --> 01:18:24.659
best teams in the world ranking from last year,

01:18:24.720 --> 01:18:28.159
not from this year. And they are invited to just

01:18:28.159 --> 01:18:30.829
come and... and test the event to see if the

01:18:30.829 --> 01:18:33.770
format is working or not working. Wow, I feel

01:18:33.770 --> 01:18:35.949
so out of the loop. Did they broadcast the speed

01:18:35.949 --> 01:18:41.529
one last year? I don't remember. I'll need to

01:18:41.529 --> 01:18:44.909
take a look. No, no, the one in Japan, because

01:18:44.909 --> 01:18:49.170
it's a collaboration with a local company, I

01:18:49.170 --> 01:18:53.430
think it will be broadcasted. I'm not sure. Okay,

01:18:53.590 --> 01:18:55.880
I hope so. That'll be exciting to see. Okay,

01:18:55.960 --> 01:18:59.119
so then moving on a little bit more into, I guess,

01:18:59.140 --> 01:19:04.140
your own personal life. I know you travel a lot.

01:19:04.220 --> 01:19:06.180
Do you like traveling? How do you handle it?

01:19:06.239 --> 01:19:08.399
I know some people struggle with that. I love

01:19:08.399 --> 01:19:12.800
it. I love it. I love traveling. I actually hate

01:19:12.800 --> 01:19:17.220
being on the same point for too long. I love

01:19:17.220 --> 01:19:19.760
traveling. I'm sleeping amazing on airplanes.

01:19:19.939 --> 01:19:22.439
I have no problem with that. I know that people

01:19:22.439 --> 01:19:26.390
struggle. Not me. I can literally fall asleep

01:19:26.390 --> 01:19:28.710
before the plane is taking off and wake up in

01:19:28.710 --> 01:19:31.289
the landing. I'm really proud of it. Do you have

01:19:31.289 --> 01:19:35.949
any tricks? Yes, sleeping pills. I'm joking.

01:19:36.770 --> 01:19:42.289
I don't use those. No, there are tricks, not

01:19:42.289 --> 01:19:45.130
tricks, but methods that we work with athletes

01:19:45.130 --> 01:19:49.010
before we go to countries like USA or Japan.

01:19:50.239 --> 01:19:53.380
You are starting to work on your internal clock

01:19:53.380 --> 01:19:56.579
before you go to these competitions. You try

01:19:56.579 --> 01:20:00.659
to get tired to the flight so you can handle

01:20:00.659 --> 01:20:06.279
it better. Some athletes are using, not sleeping

01:20:06.279 --> 01:20:12.020
pills, but melatonin. Oh, sure, yeah. Not sure

01:20:12.020 --> 01:20:15.220
if I'm saying the correct word, but it's like

01:20:15.220 --> 01:20:17.920
a sleeping hormone. Not sleeping. It doesn't

01:20:17.920 --> 01:20:23.100
work for me. Yeah, there are all kinds of, you

01:20:23.100 --> 01:20:26.479
know, warm milk. I don't know. It's helping as

01:20:26.479 --> 01:20:31.220
well. Yeah, there are methods, but I actually

01:20:31.220 --> 01:20:35.279
love traveling. I love this opportunity that

01:20:35.279 --> 01:20:39.500
I get in my job, in my work time to visit so

01:20:39.500 --> 01:20:46.569
many different countries. Yeah, but... Of course,

01:20:46.569 --> 01:20:49.409
during the competitions, you're getting exhausted.

01:20:49.770 --> 01:20:53.989
And it's a lot of... Sometimes days of flights

01:20:53.989 --> 01:20:56.529
are feeling like the biggest waste of time in

01:20:56.529 --> 01:20:59.649
your life. You come to the airport and you wait.

01:20:59.810 --> 01:21:02.090
And you go through security and you wait. Then

01:21:02.090 --> 01:21:04.569
you sit on the airplane and you wait. And everything

01:21:04.569 --> 01:21:08.510
is... Yeah. Yeah, do you have any favorite travel

01:21:08.510 --> 01:21:13.210
stories? In 22, it was my first season with the

01:21:13.210 --> 01:21:19.130
German team. And we had some issues. The Federation

01:21:19.130 --> 01:21:23.170
had some issues fixing my working visa in Germany.

01:21:23.170 --> 01:21:27.510
It took longer than they thought. And then we

01:21:27.510 --> 01:21:31.029
actually came to a situation that I flew to the

01:21:31.029 --> 01:21:35.850
World Cup in Korea. And then we figured out that

01:21:35.850 --> 01:21:38.989
I cannot go back to Germany. My visa is not fixed

01:21:38.989 --> 01:21:42.909
yet. I already spent all the time that I'm allowed

01:21:42.909 --> 01:21:47.510
to stay in Europe. And I actually can't go back

01:21:47.510 --> 01:21:52.010
to Germany. So the solution came from the Federation

01:21:52.010 --> 01:21:55.829
is the next World Cup was in Salt Lake. So they

01:21:55.829 --> 01:21:59.630
flew me directly from Korea to Salt Lake. And

01:21:59.630 --> 01:22:03.750
I was in Salt Lake two weeks before the team

01:22:03.750 --> 01:22:08.409
arrived there, just sitting in the most trashy

01:22:08.409 --> 01:22:13.220
hotel room ever. Yes. And just waiting. It was

01:22:13.220 --> 01:22:17.260
actually very funny. I waited for the flight

01:22:17.260 --> 01:22:21.340
in Korea. Okay. The flight was delayed six hours.

01:22:21.399 --> 01:22:24.279
So I was just waiting for six hours for the flight.

01:22:24.720 --> 01:22:29.260
Then I took the flight. I was landing in Dallas.

01:22:29.479 --> 01:22:32.500
Okay. And the flight was, I don't remember exactly

01:22:32.500 --> 01:22:35.479
how long, but very long, like more than 10 or

01:22:35.479 --> 01:22:39.000
12 hours, something like that. I landed in Dallas

01:22:39.000 --> 01:22:42.579
and I had exactly one hour to run to catch my

01:22:42.579 --> 01:22:46.079
connection. Originally, I had a lot of time,

01:22:46.140 --> 01:22:48.859
but now I have one hour to catch my connection

01:22:48.859 --> 01:22:53.659
between Dallas and Salt Lake. And I was waiting

01:22:53.659 --> 01:22:57.800
in the huge line for the border control for the

01:22:57.800 --> 01:23:01.720
passports. And I came. I know you are American.

01:23:01.840 --> 01:23:06.060
I love America. I love USA. You don't have to

01:23:06.060 --> 01:23:08.699
say that. It's okay. You can be hard sometimes,

01:23:09.060 --> 01:23:13.680
especially on the border control. Oh, yeah. I

01:23:13.680 --> 01:23:16.020
came to the border control. I give him all my

01:23:16.020 --> 01:23:19.760
documents. I'm with an Israeli passport and a

01:23:19.760 --> 01:23:25.399
German residency. And the guy was checking my

01:23:25.399 --> 01:23:29.220
papers and he looked up to me and he say, so

01:23:29.220 --> 01:23:32.899
let me get it straight. Yeah, you are Israeli.

01:23:33.079 --> 01:23:36.659
And I'm like, yes. But you live in Germany. And

01:23:36.659 --> 01:23:39.680
I'm like, yes. And you came here from Korea?

01:23:39.960 --> 01:23:43.680
And I was like, yes. And he said, I have some

01:23:43.680 --> 01:23:46.819
questions for you. And then he took me to the

01:23:46.819 --> 01:23:50.420
side. It took way more than an hour, all the

01:23:50.420 --> 01:23:55.500
questions. I had to show him pictures and approvals

01:23:55.500 --> 01:23:57.880
from IFSC that I'm going to the competition.

01:23:57.979 --> 01:24:02.260
It was a long story. Of course, I missed my connection

01:24:02.260 --> 01:24:07.220
to Salt Lake. And actually, I arrived to Salt

01:24:07.220 --> 01:24:10.060
Lake in the middle of the night the day after.

01:24:11.319 --> 01:24:14.600
It was 2 a .m. I came to the hotel that I was

01:24:14.600 --> 01:24:17.220
booked in. And they tell me in the entrance,

01:24:17.479 --> 01:24:20.520
sorry, we have no room for you. And I was like,

01:24:20.619 --> 01:24:23.380
what do you mean? I'm booked for like two weeks

01:24:23.380 --> 01:24:26.079
to this hotel. What do you mean you have no room?

01:24:26.239 --> 01:24:30.039
And they say, well, you were late more than 24

01:24:30.039 --> 01:24:34.100
hours. the reservation is canceled and we have

01:24:34.100 --> 01:24:38.579
no room for you 2 a .m and i'm like okay come

01:24:38.579 --> 01:24:41.319
on so can just just give me a room and can we

01:24:41.319 --> 01:24:43.460
fix it in the morning i will be here first thing

01:24:43.460 --> 01:24:45.619
seven eight in the morning whenever you want

01:24:45.619 --> 01:24:48.479
and we will fix it and he said i have no room

01:24:48.479 --> 01:24:50.460
to give you man there is there is no availability

01:24:50.460 --> 01:24:55.619
and i was like okay so i took my bag i throwed

01:24:55.619 --> 01:24:58.279
it on the couch in the lobby and i told him then

01:24:58.279 --> 01:25:01.380
i will just stay here Till the morning will come

01:25:01.380 --> 01:25:06.260
and we will fix it. And eventually it was nice

01:25:06.260 --> 01:25:10.979
enough. He took me to the employer's room where

01:25:10.979 --> 01:25:16.619
they can rest for an hour or two. Yeah, I was

01:25:16.619 --> 01:25:18.680
super hungry. It was the middle of the night.

01:25:18.739 --> 01:25:21.319
I told him, thanks a lot. What I can eat here.

01:25:21.439 --> 01:25:24.930
It was my first time in Salt Lake 22. what I

01:25:24.930 --> 01:25:26.810
can catch up to eat. And he said, well, you can

01:25:26.810 --> 01:25:29.289
go to the vending machine and eat some Pringles

01:25:29.289 --> 01:25:32.949
or you can go to the McDonald's across the street.

01:25:33.569 --> 01:25:36.189
I said, okay, it is what I have now. It's the

01:25:36.189 --> 01:25:38.489
middle of the night. I'm going to buy some fries

01:25:38.489 --> 01:25:42.250
and a burger and it will be fine. I go to the

01:25:42.250 --> 01:25:46.130
McDonald's. Of course, the restaurant was closed.

01:25:46.189 --> 01:25:48.829
You have to go in the driveway, the drive -in.

01:25:48.869 --> 01:25:52.840
Only the drive -in was open. I was standing between

01:25:52.840 --> 01:25:57.579
cars to go to the window. And then I come up

01:25:57.579 --> 01:26:01.760
to the window and the nice lady there tells me,

01:26:01.779 --> 01:26:03.680
sorry, I cannot serve you if you're not in a

01:26:03.680 --> 01:26:08.300
car. I've heard that before. I look at her. I'm

01:26:08.300 --> 01:26:12.060
that close to crying. No joke. It was the worst

01:26:12.060 --> 01:26:17.619
20. No, it was 48 hours since I left Korea. It

01:26:17.619 --> 01:26:20.420
was just. The worst time of my life. I looked

01:26:20.420 --> 01:26:23.239
terrible. I was exhausted. I was more than 24

01:26:23.239 --> 01:26:28.840
hours just waiting in airports. And I told her,

01:26:28.880 --> 01:26:33.739
listen, I've been through so much and it's so

01:26:33.739 --> 01:26:37.060
hard for me right now. I'm just hungry. Can you

01:26:37.060 --> 01:26:41.180
just please, please sell me some food? And she's

01:26:41.180 --> 01:26:44.380
like, let me check it. She goes to the back.

01:26:44.810 --> 01:26:48.810
And she comes back with a to -go bag, brown McDonald's

01:26:48.810 --> 01:26:51.489
bag, full with fries. I didn't order it yet.

01:26:51.550 --> 01:26:54.350
I didn't ask for anything. She gives me this

01:26:54.350 --> 01:26:57.409
bag and she tells me, have a safe night, sir.

01:26:57.590 --> 01:27:00.029
And I'm like, yeah, okay. I'm bringing my wallet

01:27:00.029 --> 01:27:02.590
up and she's telling me, you don't need to pay.

01:27:02.689 --> 01:27:06.149
Have a safe night. And I'm like, oh, that's super

01:27:06.149 --> 01:27:09.159
nice. I never know that it's... They're so kind

01:27:09.159 --> 01:27:11.920
in America. And I'm walking with my doggie bag.

01:27:12.060 --> 01:27:14.720
And the next thing I see is a group of homeless

01:27:14.720 --> 01:27:18.079
people with the same doggie bag as me. And I'm

01:27:18.079 --> 01:27:21.380
like, okay, she thought I'm anomalous. So the

01:27:21.380 --> 01:27:24.460
first thing I did the day after is to go take

01:27:24.460 --> 01:27:29.539
a haircut and shave my beard. But for sure, this

01:27:29.539 --> 01:27:33.930
was the worst traveling I ever had. I asked for

01:27:33.930 --> 01:27:36.949
favorite travel stories, but okay, that's fine.

01:27:37.149 --> 01:27:41.250
I think it's the best one. Now I can laugh about

01:27:41.250 --> 01:27:47.810
it. Back then it was pretty terrible. Sorry for

01:27:47.810 --> 01:27:51.449
that terrible experience. It might be even worse

01:27:51.449 --> 01:27:54.590
now, given all the border protection stuff. So

01:27:54.590 --> 01:27:56.750
yeah, let's get into some of the audience submitted

01:27:56.750 --> 01:28:02.979
questions. I didn't know that we have this thing.

01:28:03.140 --> 01:28:05.520
Okay, yeah, let's go for a question. So first

01:28:05.520 --> 01:28:09.600
one from Instagram. This one might be controversial.

01:28:09.720 --> 01:28:11.359
I don't know. I don't know where it came from.

01:28:12.039 --> 01:28:14.500
Opinion on the situation of the athletes in Germany

01:28:14.500 --> 01:28:19.779
that hate the DAV. I don't know what that means.

01:28:19.880 --> 01:28:28.939
I need some context. Yeah. So it's never easy.

01:28:29.659 --> 01:28:35.060
to a balance between what an athlete need and

01:28:35.060 --> 01:28:40.020
a federation that have other priorities than

01:28:40.020 --> 01:28:43.140
what the athletes need necessarily. So we need

01:28:43.140 --> 01:28:46.539
to understand the structure of DAV is a huge

01:28:46.539 --> 01:28:50.180
federation and competitive climbing, it's maybe

01:28:50.180 --> 01:28:55.739
the smallest, how do you say, part of the federation.

01:28:56.380 --> 01:29:00.100
The DAV have huge, huge things going in the world.

01:29:00.140 --> 01:29:02.760
They are managing the mountains of Germany. They

01:29:02.760 --> 01:29:08.840
are responsible for tracks in the mountains,

01:29:09.159 --> 01:29:12.399
for the huts in the mountains. It's a crazy big

01:29:12.399 --> 01:29:16.159
and very interesting federation. And competitive

01:29:16.159 --> 01:29:23.279
climbing is the smallest dot on this DAV map.

01:29:25.159 --> 01:29:28.560
To put it in context, I'm guessing that this

01:29:28.560 --> 01:29:32.939
question is coming because the last years that

01:29:32.939 --> 01:29:35.500
the money support that we're getting is less

01:29:35.500 --> 01:29:38.659
and less, and we are coming the first year ever

01:29:38.659 --> 01:29:42.060
that athletes need to pay for their own competitions.

01:29:43.159 --> 01:29:50.760
And of course, we have some struggles. And in

01:29:50.760 --> 01:29:56.000
the core of DAV, they are not very competitive.

01:29:56.279 --> 01:30:00.760
So competition climbing is not as important as

01:30:00.760 --> 01:30:04.960
climbing, as a culture, you know? So the culture

01:30:04.960 --> 01:30:08.399
of climbing is more important than winning this

01:30:08.399 --> 01:30:11.760
medal or winning this medal. It's not on the

01:30:11.760 --> 01:30:15.199
top of their priorities and it's conflicting

01:30:15.199 --> 01:30:19.319
with athletes that for them, the top of the priority

01:30:19.319 --> 01:30:22.359
is... this and they are dedicating their life

01:30:22.359 --> 01:30:26.300
for the sports and then you know they train for

01:30:26.300 --> 01:30:30.600
years and prepare and and now saggy as the coach

01:30:30.600 --> 01:30:33.380
decided to send them to a competition in china

01:30:33.380 --> 01:30:36.600
and the federation is saying well that's nice

01:30:36.600 --> 01:30:38.939
and that's very cool that you have some achievements

01:30:38.939 --> 01:30:42.279
but you need to pay it by yourself and when we

01:30:42.279 --> 01:30:44.560
are talking about going to a competition in china

01:30:44.560 --> 01:30:46.939
we are talking thousands of euros that you need

01:30:46.939 --> 01:30:50.210
to pay from somewhere Also, I think it's a bit

01:30:50.210 --> 01:30:55.289
of an online wording, or I don't want to say

01:30:55.289 --> 01:30:59.930
propaganda, but I don't think athletes are hating

01:30:59.930 --> 01:31:04.090
DAV. I think they have conflict, they are not

01:31:04.090 --> 01:31:07.869
agreeing on everything, or maybe they have personal

01:31:07.869 --> 01:31:13.829
problems with specific people. But DAV as a federation

01:31:13.829 --> 01:31:19.609
is... Maybe I will get in trouble for saying

01:31:19.609 --> 01:31:22.989
it, but DEV is not a competitive sport federation,

01:31:23.210 --> 01:31:27.750
you know. It's an alpine federation, you know.

01:31:27.810 --> 01:31:35.189
And they exist since 1869 as a federation. And

01:31:35.189 --> 01:31:38.210
this climbing sport came to them like, you know,

01:31:38.229 --> 01:31:41.970
this federation is almost 200 years old. Almost,

01:31:42.050 --> 01:31:46.819
you know. This sport came seriously like 20 years

01:31:46.819 --> 01:31:50.380
ago, and it's just something that the Federation

01:31:50.380 --> 01:31:53.840
is catching up with. I think it will take two,

01:31:53.979 --> 01:31:57.239
three, four years for the Federation to maybe

01:31:57.239 --> 01:31:59.600
a little bit catch up with what's happening.

01:31:59.659 --> 01:32:03.140
And then I imagine or I hope the situation will

01:32:03.140 --> 01:32:06.520
be better in a few years. All right. Sounds good.

01:32:07.260 --> 01:32:09.859
Um, next couple of questions will be a little

01:32:09.859 --> 01:32:12.739
bit more climbing related, not so heavy hitting.

01:32:13.079 --> 01:32:17.020
Oh, I love heavy. I have no problem. I think

01:32:17.020 --> 01:32:19.779
that was the only heavy hitting one. Um, so the

01:32:19.779 --> 01:32:22.439
next one, just, uh, talk through the thought

01:32:22.439 --> 01:32:25.159
process on an appeal, both against another athlete

01:32:25.159 --> 01:32:28.520
and appealing for your athlete. I think as like

01:32:28.520 --> 01:32:30.380
viewers, we don't get much info into how that

01:32:30.380 --> 01:32:33.579
works. It's pretty simple and different coaches

01:32:33.579 --> 01:32:38.659
have different agendas about that. So for me,

01:32:38.680 --> 01:32:44.159
I appeal only if it affects one of my athletes.

01:32:44.520 --> 01:32:48.260
So for example, if I appeal an American athlete

01:32:48.260 --> 01:32:51.279
and the appeal is going through and it makes

01:32:51.279 --> 01:32:55.819
my athlete being 24 in semis instead of 25 out

01:32:55.819 --> 01:32:59.399
of semis, I will go for this appeal if it has

01:32:59.399 --> 01:33:03.119
meaning. If it's not affecting my athletes, most

01:33:03.119 --> 01:33:07.899
of the time I will choose not to appeal. But

01:33:07.899 --> 01:33:11.720
sometimes, and it's not my personal agenda, it's

01:33:11.720 --> 01:33:14.439
just because I know the other coaches, sometimes

01:33:14.439 --> 01:33:20.600
appeals are coming for IFSC to notice a problem

01:33:20.600 --> 01:33:26.460
in the rules or to, let's say, educate the judges.

01:33:27.979 --> 01:33:31.039
If in qualifications you see a judge that is

01:33:31.039 --> 01:33:35.880
not judging zone positions correctly, even if

01:33:35.880 --> 01:33:38.619
it's not affecting your athletes, you want to

01:33:38.619 --> 01:33:41.680
appeal about it and to make the head judge notice

01:33:41.680 --> 01:33:44.939
because this same judge will judge your athletes

01:33:44.939 --> 01:33:48.260
in the next round in semifinals and you want

01:33:48.260 --> 01:33:54.779
him to be more correct. But it's not a secret

01:33:54.779 --> 01:33:58.560
that... a lot of coaches are doing a strategical

01:33:58.560 --> 01:34:01.979
appeals and a strategical appeals their point

01:34:01.979 --> 01:34:04.920
is it's like a big check game you know we we

01:34:04.920 --> 01:34:07.779
try to get the best advantages that we can get

01:34:07.779 --> 01:34:13.779
for our athletes um so and and this is sometimes

01:34:13.779 --> 01:34:17.220
people don't know it this is the main job of

01:34:17.220 --> 01:34:20.399
a coach in a competition since we are not allowed

01:34:20.399 --> 01:34:23.560
to communicate with the athletes you know so

01:34:23.560 --> 01:34:26.300
if i'm sitting in the coach area And I'm not

01:34:26.300 --> 01:34:29.100
allowed to communicate what's the difference

01:34:29.100 --> 01:34:32.500
between me and the guy sitting in the audience

01:34:32.500 --> 01:34:35.899
taking a video with his phone, you know? This

01:34:35.899 --> 01:34:39.239
is kind of my main job, is to look for the holes

01:34:39.239 --> 01:34:42.699
in what the judges are doing and to bring it

01:34:42.699 --> 01:34:46.619
up and to fight with it. And I can give an interesting

01:34:46.619 --> 01:34:51.819
example now from Helsinki, from the semifinal

01:34:51.819 --> 01:34:56.350
in Bouldering, okay? I had an athlete ranked

01:34:56.350 --> 01:34:59.689
number eight, meaning going into finals. Okay.

01:35:00.029 --> 01:35:03.289
And the French team had an athlete ranked number

01:35:03.289 --> 01:35:05.930
nine or 10. I don't remember exactly where she

01:35:05.930 --> 01:35:09.470
won, but she was below. Then the French coaches

01:35:09.470 --> 01:35:13.090
decided to appeal for her to get a zone. Okay.

01:35:13.149 --> 01:35:16.649
That she didn't got. Okay. Now the appeal went

01:35:16.649 --> 01:35:19.890
through, IFSC went through the judging cameras

01:35:19.890 --> 01:35:22.630
and then decided, yes, it is a zone. And it made

01:35:22.630 --> 01:35:26.130
the French athlete go to eighth place and drop

01:35:26.130 --> 01:35:29.770
down the German athlete out of finals. Never

01:35:29.770 --> 01:35:33.750
mind that if you, after the competition, when

01:35:33.750 --> 01:35:36.170
we checked the videos, the judges were wrong

01:35:36.170 --> 01:35:39.250
and it was not a zone. So during the competition,

01:35:39.329 --> 01:35:42.449
I had nothing to do about it because we are not

01:35:42.449 --> 01:35:45.449
allowed to appeal against an appeal. If an issue

01:35:45.449 --> 01:35:48.470
has been appealed once, it's not allowed in the

01:35:48.470 --> 01:35:51.649
rules to appeal against about it. After the French

01:35:51.649 --> 01:35:54.350
submitted an appeal for them to give her a zone,

01:35:54.510 --> 01:35:57.890
me as the German coach, I have nothing in my

01:35:57.890 --> 01:36:01.289
hands to do. Interesting that the day after,

01:36:01.350 --> 01:36:04.329
the same French athlete stood on the podium.

01:36:04.810 --> 01:36:08.710
So this appeal by the coaches had a lot of meaning.

01:36:08.810 --> 01:36:11.609
It's not only that they brought her from not

01:36:11.609 --> 01:36:14.470
going to finals to go to finals, they brought

01:36:14.470 --> 01:36:18.789
her a medal. And so this is why appeals are so...

01:36:19.100 --> 01:36:21.439
a lot of times emotional. Sometimes you see it

01:36:21.439 --> 01:36:23.939
in the camera, you see the coaches arguing with

01:36:23.939 --> 01:36:27.479
the judges. Of course, sometimes appeals don't

01:36:27.479 --> 01:36:30.300
have this much, this much, uh, uh, importancy,

01:36:30.380 --> 01:36:34.479
but most of the times we are fighting for the

01:36:34.479 --> 01:36:37.340
next round. We are fighting for the chance for

01:36:37.340 --> 01:36:41.159
a medal. My job is to know the rules so good.

01:36:41.359 --> 01:36:45.720
So I can find where the judges are missing, you

01:36:45.720 --> 01:36:49.319
know, and to play with it. Any harsh feelings

01:36:49.319 --> 01:36:53.000
there with getting appealed? Of course, harsh

01:36:53.000 --> 01:36:58.899
feelings, yes. I argued with the judge a lot,

01:36:59.100 --> 01:37:03.500
and after she didn't accept my arguments, I also

01:37:03.500 --> 01:37:06.300
discussed it with other judges around the world,

01:37:06.439 --> 01:37:10.920
getting their feedback about the videos. So,

01:37:11.000 --> 01:37:14.239
of course, I feel bad for my athlete, but...

01:37:14.970 --> 01:37:17.829
most of us coaches because we know each other

01:37:17.829 --> 01:37:20.670
so well you know yeah it's most of the coaches

01:37:20.670 --> 01:37:23.930
i see them more than i see my family you know

01:37:23.930 --> 01:37:27.270
during the competition rounds we we spend so

01:37:27.270 --> 01:37:30.210
so much time together we have to be also friendly

01:37:30.210 --> 01:37:33.970
with each other and you know in the end of the

01:37:33.970 --> 01:37:36.449
day when i am broken after a hard competition

01:37:36.449 --> 01:37:40.380
and for example uh nico januel the french coach

01:37:40.380 --> 01:37:42.560
is broken from a difficult competition we will

01:37:42.560 --> 01:37:45.020
sit together and we will be each other friends

01:37:45.020 --> 01:37:49.439
not only in a professional level most of us are

01:37:49.439 --> 01:37:52.439
able to be professional about it so now i'm not

01:37:52.439 --> 01:37:55.340
angry at the french coach the french coach did

01:37:55.340 --> 01:37:57.979
his job and he found the hole in the system and

01:37:57.979 --> 01:38:01.659
he took it and he made a medal for for for the

01:38:01.659 --> 01:38:04.880
french team and this is his job i have no bad

01:38:04.880 --> 01:38:07.789
feelings toward The coach. So towards the judge.

01:38:08.149 --> 01:38:15.609
Yes. Okay. Also that there are some judges that

01:38:15.609 --> 01:38:17.829
you like their character, some judges that you

01:38:17.829 --> 01:38:20.569
don't like. But in the end of the day, we have

01:38:20.569 --> 01:38:25.529
to remember two key issues. First of all, it's

01:38:25.529 --> 01:38:28.710
nothing personal. The judge does not take the

01:38:28.710 --> 01:38:32.550
decision against me. You know, he took a decision.

01:38:33.079 --> 01:38:36.539
A professional decision in his perspective, even

01:38:36.539 --> 01:38:39.720
if I don't agree. So nothing here is personal.

01:38:39.899 --> 01:38:42.880
It's all professional. And the second thing,

01:38:43.100 --> 01:38:48.159
it's a game. We are here to play and have fun.

01:38:48.300 --> 01:38:51.640
Sometimes we lose, sometimes we win, but the

01:38:51.640 --> 01:38:56.899
main issue is having fun. Good to hear it's mostly

01:38:56.899 --> 01:39:02.050
okay. Okay, let's do one last one. I know we're

01:39:02.050 --> 01:39:04.770
kind of running low on time. So what do you do

01:39:04.770 --> 01:39:09.289
in ISO? Sleeping. Okay. No, it's of course a

01:39:09.289 --> 01:39:13.289
complete joke. What I do in ISO. So I prepare

01:39:13.289 --> 01:39:16.449
my athletes for the moment of competition. So

01:39:16.449 --> 01:39:19.989
we do warm -up together. We do activation for

01:39:19.989 --> 01:39:24.409
the body. If it's lead, I'm giving them circuits

01:39:24.409 --> 01:39:27.550
to get the pump out. If it's boulder, we are...

01:39:27.800 --> 01:39:33.739
trying to expect moves. And yeah, we are most

01:39:33.739 --> 01:39:39.199
of all warming up. Second of all, it's also a

01:39:39.199 --> 01:39:43.800
very friendly place to mingle with other coaches.

01:39:44.420 --> 01:39:47.500
I can tell you that sometimes ISO is very boring.

01:39:47.680 --> 01:39:51.159
If you're going to ISO at 7 in the morning and

01:39:51.159 --> 01:39:54.460
your athlete is climbing at 11, you are not warming

01:39:54.460 --> 01:39:57.680
up for four hours. You have it like two hours

01:39:57.680 --> 01:40:00.100
and then two hours you are kind in a waiting

01:40:00.100 --> 01:40:02.899
position. Well, but are you usually in ISO or

01:40:02.899 --> 01:40:05.659
like usually you'd be out in the coach's area

01:40:05.659 --> 01:40:08.979
in the mats? It depends. So we need a coach on

01:40:08.979 --> 01:40:11.239
the mats from the minute the competition started

01:40:11.239 --> 01:40:14.039
because we need to take care of appeals from

01:40:14.039 --> 01:40:17.119
the first athlete that is climbing. And also

01:40:17.119 --> 01:40:20.640
most of the times we need a coach in ISO taking

01:40:20.640 --> 01:40:23.979
care in all of the athletes are getting warmed

01:40:23.979 --> 01:40:26.779
up, blah, blah, blah. Usually what most of the

01:40:26.779 --> 01:40:29.159
teams are doing is all the coaches are going

01:40:29.159 --> 01:40:33.000
in ISO when it's open. And then when the first

01:40:33.000 --> 01:40:36.000
athlete is starting, half of the team would leave

01:40:36.000 --> 01:40:40.039
out to take care of appeals or to watch the competition

01:40:40.039 --> 01:40:43.039
and some of the coaches. And we change between

01:40:43.039 --> 01:40:47.020
us. Me and my dear colleague Fritzi, she's the

01:40:47.020 --> 01:40:51.819
love of my life. She's the lead coach. We change

01:40:51.819 --> 01:40:55.010
between us. The round of the boys, I'm going

01:40:55.010 --> 01:40:57.590
out, she's staying in. Then the girls, I will

01:40:57.590 --> 01:41:02.449
go. We change. There is no specific. Cool. Okay,

01:41:02.550 --> 01:41:05.869
so let's wrap up here then. Thanks for joining

01:41:05.869 --> 01:41:08.710
me today. Do you have any last -minute words

01:41:08.710 --> 01:41:10.970
of wisdom you want to get out there? You know,

01:41:11.090 --> 01:41:14.470
the graveyard is full with people that thought

01:41:14.470 --> 01:41:18.289
they are irreplaceable. Oh, okay. You asked for

01:41:18.289 --> 01:41:23.199
wisdom. I don't remember. How does that apply

01:41:23.199 --> 01:41:26.039
to competitions? Oh, it's not applying for competition.

01:41:26.199 --> 01:41:29.220
I just think it's a really wise thing to understand

01:41:29.220 --> 01:41:31.739
in your life, you know? Okay, let me think about

01:41:31.739 --> 01:41:38.880
it. You want wise climbing wise. I mean, that

01:41:38.880 --> 01:41:41.560
one's good too. I need to think about that one

01:41:41.560 --> 01:41:46.100
for a few days. I will give you something else.

01:41:47.850 --> 01:41:50.750
something that you discover when you work very

01:41:50.750 --> 01:41:55.510
very very hard as a coach yeah that most of the

01:41:55.510 --> 01:42:00.729
time uh the win of the athlete is the athlete's

01:42:00.729 --> 01:42:06.310
win but the loss of an athlete you share it so

01:42:06.310 --> 01:42:10.010
it's the loss of both of you and it's it's a

01:42:10.010 --> 01:42:13.710
hard position in the for for coaches you know

01:42:13.710 --> 01:42:16.170
because There's only one guy standing on the

01:42:16.170 --> 01:42:18.329
podium and it's the athlete. It doesn't matter

01:42:18.329 --> 01:42:21.409
how much hard work coaches are putting behind

01:42:21.409 --> 01:42:25.689
this athlete. But when you lose, you all lose

01:42:25.689 --> 01:42:28.890
together. Okay, that's good. And I will still

01:42:28.890 --> 01:42:31.770
think about the other one. I haven't heard that

01:42:31.770 --> 01:42:35.989
one before. Never, really? No, yeah, no. It's

01:42:35.989 --> 01:42:39.550
for the concept of people that are giving me

01:42:39.550 --> 01:42:43.210
ultimatums or telling me... If you do that, then

01:42:43.210 --> 01:42:46.510
I leave. And I always like saying, hey, everybody's

01:42:46.510 --> 01:42:51.590
replaceable. Yikes. No, I think it's a good,

01:42:51.609 --> 01:42:54.770
humble position for people to work with. I know

01:42:54.770 --> 01:43:00.449
that I'm replaceable all the time. No, I think

01:43:00.449 --> 01:43:02.390
that makes sense. A lot of people get really

01:43:02.390 --> 01:43:05.109
invested in their work and they feel like they

01:43:05.109 --> 01:43:07.029
have to give everything to their work. And then

01:43:07.029 --> 01:43:08.970
it's like, well, they don't really care that

01:43:08.970 --> 01:43:11.810
much about you necessarily. So I get that. Okay,

01:43:11.869 --> 01:43:15.930
cool. Do you want to let people know where they

01:43:15.930 --> 01:43:19.810
can find you? So six or seven months ago, like

01:43:19.810 --> 01:43:23.170
beginning of the season, I deleted my social

01:43:23.170 --> 01:43:28.229
medias. Not because blah, blah, blah, just because

01:43:28.229 --> 01:43:33.789
it was destroying my dopamine and harming my

01:43:33.789 --> 01:43:39.409
sleeping time. And I said, okay, I just have

01:43:39.409 --> 01:43:45.279
to get rid of it. But rarely I slowly start to

01:43:45.279 --> 01:43:49.100
check. I check my DMs on Instagram from time

01:43:49.100 --> 01:43:54.100
to time. Naknik setting on Instagram. But, you

01:43:54.100 --> 01:43:56.760
know, there is always ways to get to me if people

01:43:56.760 --> 01:43:59.939
want to. Sounds good. I will leave that in the

01:43:59.939 --> 01:44:02.579
description. Well, thank you again. And it was

01:44:02.579 --> 01:44:05.680
great to chat with you. Yeah, thank you. It was...

01:44:06.159 --> 01:44:09.279
way way easier than i expected i was a bit terrified

01:44:09.279 --> 01:44:12.020
in the beginning thank you so much for making

01:44:12.020 --> 01:44:14.300
it to the end of the podcast don't forget to

01:44:14.300 --> 01:44:16.819
like and subscribe if you enjoyed otherwise you

01:44:16.819 --> 01:44:20.199
are a super big climber if you're listening on

01:44:20.199 --> 01:44:22.699
a podcasting platform i'd appreciate if you rate

01:44:22.699 --> 01:44:25.460
it five stars and you can continue the discussion

01:44:25.460 --> 01:44:28.640
on the free competition climbing discord linked

01:44:28.640 --> 01:44:31.060
in the description thanks again for listening