WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.339
It is the most common finger injury in comp athletes.

00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:06.000
And it is one of the only injuries that I would

00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:09.699
say needs a proper break from any loading there.

00:00:11.039 --> 00:00:13.099
90 % of the time, if you're dealing with a hand

00:00:13.099 --> 00:00:15.539
injury, you should go to an OT, not a PT. They're

00:00:15.539 --> 00:00:18.739
the ones that know more about it. Yeah. The thing

00:00:18.739 --> 00:00:20.839
is, obviously, I specialize in hands and fingers

00:00:20.839 --> 00:00:23.820
because that's what I see the most. Yeah, this

00:00:23.820 --> 00:00:26.160
might be a bit of a hot take on that. But I would

00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:28.920
say that the last one is probably the least dangerous.

00:00:29.969 --> 00:00:34.049
climbing as a whole really overestimates the

00:00:34.049 --> 00:00:37.630
value of tape. Welcome to another episode of

00:00:37.630 --> 00:00:40.270
the That's Not Real Climbing podcast. I'm your

00:00:40.270 --> 00:00:42.149
host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce my

00:00:42.149 --> 00:00:45.289
guest for today, Miguel Zevallos. Miguel is a

00:00:45.289 --> 00:00:47.289
climbing physical therapist who works closely

00:00:47.289 --> 00:00:49.530
with the Method Youth Climbing team in the US

00:00:49.530 --> 00:00:52.929
and recently worked his first youth nationals.

00:00:53.310 --> 00:00:55.429
In this episode, we'll learn about the danger

00:00:55.429 --> 00:00:57.710
of growth plate injuries in youth climbing athletes,

00:00:57.990 --> 00:01:00.850
we'll get a glimpse into youth ISO, we'll rank

00:01:00.850 --> 00:01:03.109
three of the most dangerous comp moves we've

00:01:03.109 --> 00:01:05.730
seen so far, and we'll hear about his own journey

00:01:05.730 --> 00:01:08.209
trying to make the Peruvian national team. I

00:01:08.209 --> 00:01:19.200
hope you enjoy this episode with Miguel. I'm

00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:21.379
excited to announce that my sponsor Mad Rock

00:01:21.379 --> 00:01:23.260
Climbing just came out with a brand new pair

00:01:23.260 --> 00:01:25.760
of shoes, the Remora Pro. I was so excited to

00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:27.900
try them on that even though I broke a toe on

00:01:27.900 --> 00:01:30.219
my right foot, I had to at least try on the left

00:01:30.219 --> 00:01:32.780
shoe. So I can definitely say that the Remora

00:01:32.780 --> 00:01:36.060
Pro is better than a rental shoe. But really,

00:01:36.140 --> 00:01:38.099
these are their softest shoe ever, which means

00:01:38.099 --> 00:01:40.079
you no longer need to worry about standing on

00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:43.799
sketchy volumes and comps. They also have a crazy

00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:46.439
3D heel that allows you to get more surface area

00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:49.180
when heel hooking and inserts that lock your

00:01:49.180 --> 00:01:51.200
heel into the shoe no matter how hard you're

00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:53.980
pulling. Feel free to message me if you have

00:01:53.980 --> 00:01:56.700
any questions about the shoes or sizing and you

00:01:56.700 --> 00:01:59.040
can use the discount code NOTREALCLIMBER for

00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:01.719
10 % off your entire Mad Rock order. Back to

00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:03.780
the show. Yeah, is it like your own practice

00:02:03.780 --> 00:02:07.280
or? Yeah, pretty much I work with different gyms.

00:02:07.579 --> 00:02:10.659
So that kind of ideal that I have is, I think,

00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:12.479
a pretty unique setting. I don't actually have

00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:14.460
an actual physical location. I just go to these

00:02:14.460 --> 00:02:17.340
different gyms that I have contracts with. And

00:02:17.340 --> 00:02:19.240
that's what I that's my full time job, right?

00:02:19.300 --> 00:02:21.020
I just go to these different gyms. I go to five

00:02:21.020 --> 00:02:23.639
different places and I see clients there. Cool.

00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:26.780
Well, let's get into it then. I guess just from

00:02:26.780 --> 00:02:29.159
the start, why did you decide to study physical

00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:31.580
therapy and what got you into climbing after

00:02:31.580 --> 00:02:33.120
that? I think you started climbing afterwards.

00:02:33.659 --> 00:02:38.020
Yeah. Yeah. So I was I first started. I guess

00:02:38.020 --> 00:02:39.740
like rock climbing in my second year of PT school.

00:02:40.419 --> 00:02:44.819
And pretty much like I took a very biomechanical

00:02:44.819 --> 00:02:46.759
approach to climbing. It was very like kind of

00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:49.139
science nerdy in how I wanted to like climb and

00:02:49.139 --> 00:02:52.419
just like see the improvements of things. And

00:02:52.419 --> 00:02:54.159
yeah, I just climbed throughout most of my PT

00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:56.020
school. It was like a nice way to like relax

00:02:56.020 --> 00:02:59.500
and get some physical fitness in. Did not expect

00:02:59.500 --> 00:03:02.680
it to become a career whatsoever. And it kind

00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:04.199
of sort of planned out that way, which is really

00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:07.919
fun. I guess, like, did you do other sports beforehand?

00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:11.000
Is that, like, what got you into studying PT

00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:14.719
in the first place? Yeah. I did, I guess, like,

00:03:14.780 --> 00:03:17.759
high school, like, soccer. And I did a bit of,

00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:20.919
like, intramural in college. I did some dance,

00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:23.159
like, competitive dance, which is really interesting.

00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:26.039
Whoa. What kind of dance? Like, some, like, hip

00:03:26.039 --> 00:03:29.080
-hop contemporary type style. Oh, cool. Like,

00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:30.840
more like the urban, yeah. It was pretty fun.

00:03:30.979 --> 00:03:33.300
So I always did, like, some type of, like, activity

00:03:33.300 --> 00:03:36.680
like that. To kind of like keep busy. I was never

00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:39.060
super into like traditional weightlifting, you

00:03:39.060 --> 00:03:41.360
know, like I gave it a shot so many times in

00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:43.780
high school, college and grad school. And like

00:03:43.780 --> 00:03:46.180
it always felt like a chore. So finding like

00:03:46.180 --> 00:03:49.280
an activity was always a much, much, much better

00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:52.759
use of, I guess, my time, if you will. Yeah.

00:03:52.860 --> 00:03:55.120
So then in I guess I don't really know like what

00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:59.460
they teach in school for physical therapy. Does

00:03:59.460 --> 00:04:02.699
it go much into like these finger? injuries that

00:04:02.699 --> 00:04:04.599
you would see in climbing or is that something

00:04:04.599 --> 00:04:06.919
that you somehow have to figure out on your own

00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:10.919
or like apply broader concepts to uh yeah like

00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:14.199
i would say we definitely touch on the hand and

00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:15.639
like the fingers and stuff like that as like

00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:18.620
part of overall anatomy and like physiology stuff

00:04:18.620 --> 00:04:21.920
like that but it is very much um i don't want

00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:24.120
to say afterthought but it's not nearly as as

00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:26.939
detailed as you would in something like like

00:04:26.939 --> 00:04:30.000
ot and this is actually um something i i would

00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:32.600
say 90 % of the time, if you're dealing with

00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:34.779
a hand injury, you should go to an OT, not a

00:04:34.779 --> 00:04:36.879
PT. They're the ones that know more about it.

00:04:36.980 --> 00:04:39.959
Yeah. The thing is, obviously, I specialize in

00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:41.620
hands and fingers because that's what I see the

00:04:41.620 --> 00:04:44.339
most of. So I've taken continuing education classes

00:04:44.339 --> 00:04:47.120
and stuff like that. But in the actual grad school,

00:04:47.459 --> 00:04:51.699
we touch on more the entire body, right? And

00:04:51.699 --> 00:04:56.240
more neuro, more cardiac stuff. There's so many

00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:58.180
topics to cover. Hands are a very small part.

00:04:58.699 --> 00:05:01.839
Whereas I think OTs spend like an entire, at

00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:03.939
least a whole class about it. Because it's all

00:05:03.939 --> 00:05:05.620
about like fine motor skills and stuff like that.

00:05:05.819 --> 00:05:07.500
Usually like stroke patients, stuff like that.

00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:10.480
So we do, to make a long story short, yes, we

00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:14.980
learn about it. But it is a small part of one

00:05:14.980 --> 00:05:17.420
course that we take. Okay. I had actually not

00:05:17.420 --> 00:05:19.779
heard of that before. What is an OT, by the way?

00:05:20.259 --> 00:05:22.120
Occupational therapist. There's a lot of similarities.

00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:24.180
I feel like a lot of people don't know too much

00:05:24.180 --> 00:05:27.439
about OTs, but they're pretty much, they do a

00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:29.019
lot of the similar things. You'll find them both

00:05:29.019 --> 00:05:31.100
working in like hospitals and similar settings,

00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:34.680
but they typically take care of more of the hands

00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:37.920
-on stuff, like the hands, maybe some wrist stuff.

00:05:37.980 --> 00:05:40.160
And then in general, it's more like occupational

00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:42.100
based. So like kind of getting you back to doing

00:05:42.100 --> 00:05:44.639
your normal activities of daily living and more

00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:47.500
just like, yeah, like just daily tasks, right?

00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:50.000
As opposed to like PTs tend to be more return

00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:52.709
to sport. If you're in that setting, orthopedic

00:05:52.709 --> 00:05:55.230
setting. Oh, I see. So then would you still recommend

00:05:55.230 --> 00:05:58.610
that for like climbers? So if you have like some

00:05:58.610 --> 00:06:00.550
type of like real pulley tear, yeah, for sure.

00:06:00.670 --> 00:06:02.370
Because typically that's going to be affecting

00:06:02.370 --> 00:06:05.370
more and more things. But the caveat here is

00:06:05.370 --> 00:06:09.069
like usually you graduate either PT or OT, whatever

00:06:09.069 --> 00:06:12.209
you do, when it's like, especially with a more

00:06:12.209 --> 00:06:13.829
traditional insurance -based model, you kind

00:06:13.829 --> 00:06:17.689
of graduate when you're cleared to do most of

00:06:17.689 --> 00:06:20.079
your things independently. And that certainly

00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:22.199
does not include putting your entire body weight

00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:26.079
on your fingertips. So typically, right, especially

00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:29.939
when you're trying to make your case to insurance

00:06:29.939 --> 00:06:31.699
companies, it's like, all right, what can't they

00:06:31.699 --> 00:06:35.220
do? And you got to kind of like BS it a little

00:06:35.220 --> 00:06:37.120
bit and be like, oh, you know, yeah, they have

00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:38.899
some pain in their fingers. And it is kind of

00:06:38.899 --> 00:06:41.120
stopping them from doing their normal work activities

00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:42.959
if you're typing all the time. all the software

00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:45.779
engineers to come see me. It's like, we got to

00:06:45.779 --> 00:06:47.740
be like, all right, yeah, let's make sure that

00:06:47.740 --> 00:06:50.779
we're trying to justify by something else that

00:06:50.779 --> 00:06:53.139
it's stopping you from. Obviously, I'm not doing

00:06:53.139 --> 00:06:55.180
really that anymore as I'm at climbing gyms.

00:06:55.180 --> 00:06:56.740
I don't really have to justify anything. But

00:06:56.740 --> 00:07:00.819
when I was at the more normal PT clinic and saw

00:07:00.819 --> 00:07:03.800
climbers there, it was definitely a wrestling

00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:06.800
match to get things approved. Oh, my gosh. The

00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:09.819
nightmare of American health care system, I guess.

00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:12.639
It's not great. If we have international viewers

00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:15.220
watching, they'll probably be a little bit shocked

00:07:15.220 --> 00:07:17.519
to hear that, I think. You have to run through

00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:20.899
a lot of hoops. Yeah. That's an entire episode

00:07:20.899 --> 00:07:22.920
on its own, honestly. Like deductibles, co -pays.

00:07:23.100 --> 00:07:25.500
Oh, my gosh. Yeah. We don't have to get into

00:07:25.500 --> 00:07:28.819
that today, thankfully. Okay. So then what kind

00:07:28.819 --> 00:07:30.660
of work have you done specifically with comp

00:07:30.660 --> 00:07:34.220
climbers? Taking a step back. got into it in

00:07:34.220 --> 00:07:37.199
the first place, right? I was actually approached

00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:40.500
by my home gym, Method Climbing in New Jersey.

00:07:40.699 --> 00:07:45.600
And they are actually a very well -known kind

00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:48.379
of competition team. They won nationals in 2023,

00:07:48.740 --> 00:07:52.399
I believe. So yeah, very, very good team. And

00:07:52.399 --> 00:07:54.240
they actually like the owners approached me saying,

00:07:54.379 --> 00:07:56.139
Hey, do you want to, you know, like kind of start

00:07:56.139 --> 00:08:00.579
treating some of the people here and, and just

00:08:00.579 --> 00:08:02.160
kind of like, you know, continue seeing your

00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:04.899
own people. And that kind of started developing

00:08:04.899 --> 00:08:07.199
as like my part time gig, in addition to my normal

00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:11.360
full time PT clinic job. And I started seeing

00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:14.560
a lot more recreational climbers. And as I started

00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:16.120
getting more of a relationship with the coaches

00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:19.290
there, a lot of the competition. athletes started

00:08:19.290 --> 00:08:21.769
seeing me there. Most of the time it was like

00:08:21.769 --> 00:08:23.850
in tandem with the coaching. So like I'll do

00:08:23.850 --> 00:08:25.230
like a one -off session and be like, hey, these

00:08:25.230 --> 00:08:27.170
are my findings. This is what I think they should

00:08:27.170 --> 00:08:29.829
avoid. And the coaches really appreciated that,

00:08:29.910 --> 00:08:33.330
right? So it was less of getting a client and

00:08:33.330 --> 00:08:35.610
then seeing them for weekly visits for X amount

00:08:35.610 --> 00:08:37.169
of times. And it was more so like identifying

00:08:37.169 --> 00:08:39.210
what the issue is and then giving some of that

00:08:39.210 --> 00:08:41.750
feedback to the coaches. Back then it was very

00:08:41.750 --> 00:08:45.120
much like... very limited spots. It was, I would

00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:47.500
do, Oh yeah, that sucked. It was like seven to

00:08:47.500 --> 00:08:50.639
10 PM on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. Cause

00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:53.940
it was after my normal days. Um, yeah, I'm glad

00:08:53.940 --> 00:08:57.159
I'm not doing that. Yeah. That's how that started.

00:08:57.240 --> 00:08:59.059
And then it kind of started getting more and

00:08:59.059 --> 00:09:01.399
more popular where now I'm at a five different

00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:05.000
gyms. So, um, it's really fun. I I've built a

00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:06.600
good amount of community now with a lot of the

00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:08.200
coaches in the New Jersey, New York city area.

00:09:08.909 --> 00:09:10.309
And my name just started kind of getting out

00:09:10.309 --> 00:09:12.190
there more and more with a lot of the coaches

00:09:12.190 --> 00:09:13.889
and a lot of youth athletes kind of getting referred

00:09:13.889 --> 00:09:16.370
to me. And that's kind of my model, especially

00:09:16.370 --> 00:09:18.769
when working with youth athletes. I'll try to

00:09:18.769 --> 00:09:22.649
make it as independent as possible. So like I'll

00:09:22.649 --> 00:09:25.710
see them for a couple visits and all those findings

00:09:25.710 --> 00:09:27.850
I'll try to send to the coaches if they allow

00:09:27.850 --> 00:09:31.929
that. And then I'll kind of give my general suggestions

00:09:31.929 --> 00:09:34.029
of what they should avoid, right? It's less of

00:09:34.029 --> 00:09:37.610
a come to this clinic for twice a week for X

00:09:37.610 --> 00:09:39.519
amount of weeks. we're always kind of working

00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:41.620
on things while not climbing. Unless there's

00:09:41.620 --> 00:09:43.259
like some of the growth plate fractures, which

00:09:43.259 --> 00:09:45.080
is I'm sure what we'll get into in a bit. Yeah.

00:09:45.139 --> 00:09:47.360
And so you work a lot with like the Method Youth

00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:50.440
team? Yeah. So that's the one I primarily worked

00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:53.879
with because they actually, like I went with

00:09:53.879 --> 00:09:56.419
them to Youth Nationals this past year in June.

00:09:56.539 --> 00:09:59.820
So that was a really cool experience. June 29th

00:09:59.820 --> 00:10:01.779
to like July 3rd or something like that. Yeah.

00:10:01.820 --> 00:10:05.500
It's long. Yeah. Oh man. So I have a blog post

00:10:05.500 --> 00:10:07.899
about it and it was kind of like talking about,

00:10:08.379 --> 00:10:10.679
my whole experience there. And I mean, it's six

00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:13.000
days. And if you're like a very good team that

00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:15.120
has consistently people in every category making

00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:17.899
finals, you're there doing 12, 13 hour shifts,

00:10:18.019 --> 00:10:21.240
six days in a row. Oh gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:24.080
and as a PT, do you get to like go into ISO?

00:10:25.059 --> 00:10:27.679
Okay. What's like the youth ISO scene? Like,

00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:31.720
is it like, is it stressful? Is it, is there

00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:34.440
a lot of, you can like feel the energy in the

00:10:34.440 --> 00:10:39.950
room? Especially in the semifinals and finals,

00:10:40.110 --> 00:10:43.289
everyone is just super nerve -wracking. It's

00:10:43.289 --> 00:10:45.629
pretty stressful. But how I got into it, too,

00:10:45.690 --> 00:10:49.230
is the coaches got me the L2 certification, so

00:10:49.230 --> 00:10:53.370
you need that to get into isolation. By USAC

00:10:53.370 --> 00:10:57.289
standards, I'm an L2 coach, but my job primarily

00:10:57.289 --> 00:11:00.629
there was to be the in -house PT, if you will.

00:11:00.769 --> 00:11:03.009
In ISO, what kind of work do you do there for

00:11:03.009 --> 00:11:07.190
the athletes? Yeah. So primarily it was to see

00:11:07.190 --> 00:11:09.970
that we had a list every day. We would come up

00:11:09.970 --> 00:11:11.889
with a list of like everyone who we think needs

00:11:11.889 --> 00:11:14.049
a little bit more of a touch up if they had any

00:11:14.049 --> 00:11:15.929
type of tweak. And the coaches knew this already

00:11:15.929 --> 00:11:18.029
coming into nationals who is a little banked

00:11:18.029 --> 00:11:20.470
up or whatever. Right. So we had a list and whatever

00:11:20.470 --> 00:11:23.190
the things pile up as the days kind of continue.

00:11:23.769 --> 00:11:26.330
So we had a list every time of these people that

00:11:26.330 --> 00:11:28.049
I want to see. We give them like a 20 minute

00:11:28.049 --> 00:11:31.549
block as part of their warm up. And like, yeah,

00:11:31.649 --> 00:11:33.549
so like as they're still warming up, I'll kind

00:11:33.549 --> 00:11:35.330
of see them for like these 20 minute blocks and

00:11:35.330 --> 00:11:37.490
do any of my treatments with them, tape them

00:11:37.490 --> 00:11:40.149
up. I did a lot of, you know, some sports taping

00:11:40.149 --> 00:11:43.429
for just like extra support and just kind of

00:11:43.429 --> 00:11:46.129
like break up some tissue and then kind of give

00:11:46.129 --> 00:11:48.110
them some like in general on the wall warmups

00:11:48.110 --> 00:11:49.929
that they should be doing to prepare. Because

00:11:49.929 --> 00:11:52.490
at the end of the day, we, especially for semis

00:11:52.490 --> 00:11:54.590
and finals, we don't know what the actual round

00:11:54.590 --> 00:11:56.710
looks like. We have to just kind of prepare for

00:11:56.710 --> 00:11:58.889
everything. And so if we know that there's like,

00:11:59.070 --> 00:12:02.110
an ankle injury, and we don't really want to

00:12:02.110 --> 00:12:04.149
be putting all the weight when it's like bent

00:12:04.149 --> 00:12:05.570
like this, right? It's like, all right, we need

00:12:05.570 --> 00:12:08.509
to be preparing for that as a part of a warmup,

00:12:08.529 --> 00:12:10.370
if that actually happens during the comp. So

00:12:10.370 --> 00:12:13.610
that's kind of my job, identifying the weak points

00:12:13.610 --> 00:12:15.909
of whatever body part that we're working on,

00:12:15.990 --> 00:12:17.909
trying to train those as part of a warmup, so

00:12:17.909 --> 00:12:20.830
then they're in best shape for their actual comp.

00:12:21.049 --> 00:12:24.139
It seems like... I think a lot of sports have

00:12:24.139 --> 00:12:26.840
something like this, but climbing is like everyone

00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:28.620
there was like, well, this is so cool. The method

00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:30.840
just filled up with like their personal PT. And

00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:33.419
they were the coaches that were gracious enough

00:12:33.419 --> 00:12:35.720
for me to whenever there was downtime, I would

00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:37.200
check up on anyone else from any other team.

00:12:37.299 --> 00:12:39.580
So that was really cool. I made some cool connections

00:12:39.580 --> 00:12:41.559
with the coaches there, but that was like my

00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:45.480
primary kind of like be the person that. prepares

00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:47.659
people when they are any tweaks i definitely

00:12:47.659 --> 00:12:49.740
saw my fair share of like emergency treatments

00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:52.200
which was kind of okay yeah like some people

00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:54.159
like got injured like you know during the comp

00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:56.360
and like wanted and it's between rounds right

00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:59.700
so like yeah you know if i had a qualifier and

00:12:59.700 --> 00:13:03.220
uh they come out of that banged up like an actual

00:13:03.220 --> 00:13:05.000
like oh i think i like actually really injured

00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:06.919
something and the semifinals is the next day

00:13:06.919 --> 00:13:11.440
that kind of uh identifying how bad the injury

00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:14.279
is just to make that call if they need to to

00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:16.559
actually like, you know, not compete in the next

00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:19.039
round, unfortunately. Hopefully that didn't happen.

00:13:19.299 --> 00:13:22.360
Everything that was kind of like banged up, we

00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:25.320
were able to at least mitigate the risk so that

00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:28.240
they can ultimately try just, but you know, I'd

00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:30.940
still say like avoid XYZ if something did happen.

00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:35.179
Makes sense. And yeah, just like with the warmups

00:13:35.179 --> 00:13:37.039
and ISO, I was just going to say, I really wish

00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:40.179
that I had like a PT who could always be there

00:13:40.179 --> 00:13:43.570
and like. give me specific moves or like exercises

00:13:43.570 --> 00:13:46.009
to do on the wall while warming up so that I

00:13:46.009 --> 00:13:48.970
can have like a good, a good comp. I feel like

00:13:48.970 --> 00:13:51.230
that would make a huge difference. Warming up

00:13:51.230 --> 00:13:54.049
is like so hard when you have an injury in the

00:13:54.049 --> 00:13:57.450
back of your head. But yeah, so I think at the

00:13:57.450 --> 00:13:59.570
World Cups, I see like a lot of coaches and PTs

00:13:59.570 --> 00:14:02.210
kind of like ready at the sidelines with like

00:14:02.210 --> 00:14:04.950
ice packs, taping, all that kind of stuff. Is

00:14:04.950 --> 00:14:07.029
that kind of like what you're doing there too?

00:14:07.330 --> 00:14:09.850
Yeah, we're in ISO. So something like, like,

00:14:10.059 --> 00:14:13.200
Cold packs wouldn't really work well, but there's

00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.500
definitely like kits, right? People, coaches

00:14:15.500 --> 00:14:17.179
will certainly bring like kits of like taping

00:14:17.179 --> 00:14:20.659
for bracing purposes or whatever. And then they'll

00:14:20.659 --> 00:14:22.240
have like a lot of like workout equipment, like

00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:25.720
portable boards. There's some like rubber bands,

00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:27.399
right? To like warm up the whole body and stuff

00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:30.740
like that. So it's more like a workout kit. Method

00:14:30.740 --> 00:14:33.639
kind of brings an entire, like a huge suitcase

00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:36.700
full of stuff. Yeah, yeah. They kind of pull

00:14:36.700 --> 00:14:38.259
up and just like take over an entire corner.

00:14:38.379 --> 00:14:41.259
It's really funny. Oh, wow. It's intense. I've

00:14:41.259 --> 00:14:44.460
also seen people like get massages or like use

00:14:44.460 --> 00:14:46.600
massage guns mid -comp. Like, is that actually

00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:50.799
helpful? So it's like the same idea as like de

00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:53.259
-pumping. Have you heard of that? No. So that's

00:14:53.259 --> 00:14:55.340
another thing that I did a lot when there isn't

00:14:55.340 --> 00:14:57.240
an injury per se, but like, especially when it

00:14:57.240 --> 00:14:59.019
was that boulder round. I did this a couple of

00:14:59.019 --> 00:15:00.799
times where it's like you do three boulders and

00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:04.029
then take a break. In that break. To just get

00:15:04.029 --> 00:15:06.110
all the blood like rushing out of there and like

00:15:06.110 --> 00:15:10.230
heal or get back to normal state quicker. Also

00:15:10.230 --> 00:15:12.250
like adrenaline is always going to have increased

00:15:12.250 --> 00:15:14.629
blood flow in that area to get more tightened

00:15:14.629 --> 00:15:16.830
up. I basically just depump them by doing like

00:15:16.830 --> 00:15:18.950
some soft tissue work of the form. And it's not

00:15:18.950 --> 00:15:22.570
like treatment from an injury standpoint. It's

00:15:22.570 --> 00:15:24.250
just kind of get some more blood flow in a more

00:15:24.250 --> 00:15:26.230
efficient way. But if you don't have someone

00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:27.950
actually doing that for you, something like a

00:15:27.950 --> 00:15:30.149
massage gun works quite well. Oh, really? Okay.

00:15:30.330 --> 00:15:33.250
But I would say it's not. It's not going to treat

00:15:33.250 --> 00:15:35.129
anything. It's more so like it feels nice. It

00:15:35.129 --> 00:15:36.929
kind of mobilizes things, gets blood flow. That's

00:15:36.929 --> 00:15:39.889
really what you want. I think, well, speaking

00:15:39.889 --> 00:15:42.110
of depumping, I don't know if this is really

00:15:42.110 --> 00:15:45.850
depumping, but my biggest pro science thing is

00:15:45.850 --> 00:15:51.049
that if I'm feeling pumped, I like to raise my

00:15:51.049 --> 00:15:54.309
arms above my head. And then I imagine all the

00:15:54.309 --> 00:15:58.710
blood flowing out that's tired. And then I put

00:15:58.710 --> 00:16:03.639
my arms down to get new blood in. Does that actually

00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:06.659
work? Is that a real thing? That is like without

00:16:06.659 --> 00:16:08.500
getting super scientific, that's exactly what's

00:16:08.500 --> 00:16:11.379
happening. Okay. You're literally getting like

00:16:11.379 --> 00:16:15.139
all the little kind of fatigued buildup in that

00:16:15.139 --> 00:16:17.460
area and we're making it more go back down. So

00:16:17.460 --> 00:16:19.879
getting out of the extremities. Okay. I will

00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:22.340
continue doing that then. Thank you for that.

00:16:23.100 --> 00:16:24.879
Yeah. It's like everything like you like flexing

00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:26.500
muscle, you're getting the blood flow in there,

00:16:26.539 --> 00:16:28.179
right? So like if you're consistently flexing

00:16:28.179 --> 00:16:30.679
that. all that blood starts kind of piling up

00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:33.639
here. It gets stiffer. It gets less likely for

00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:37.059
it to be able to contract in the same way when

00:16:37.059 --> 00:16:39.399
it's already full, if that makes sense. So we

00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:41.980
want to kind of let new blood kind of get in

00:16:41.980 --> 00:16:44.279
there, chill out a little bit, more oxygen. Yes,

00:16:44.299 --> 00:16:48.220
that's what it is, more oxygen. So in terms of

00:16:48.220 --> 00:16:50.720
treating like youth climbers versus adults, what

00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:52.879
are some of the differences you see there? Yeah,

00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.440
so this is, I think, the biggest thing that I...

00:16:57.340 --> 00:16:59.360
talked about in the blog post and when I was

00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:02.360
mentioning to other coaches, in my normal day

00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:05.619
-to -day, I guess it's not nine to five, right?

00:17:05.700 --> 00:17:09.319
It's more like three to nine. But in my normal

00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:13.240
work day, I would see like your young adults

00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:15.880
is probably the most common age range that I

00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:19.019
see. And it's usually going to be fingers, wrists,

00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:22.779
and probably shoulders, I'd say, are like the

00:17:22.779 --> 00:17:25.000
three most common things I see. Just like when

00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:27.099
you think of climbing, those are typically what

00:17:27.099 --> 00:17:31.519
you pull the most with. For youth athletes, they

00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:35.019
usually start climbing before puberty, and so

00:17:35.019 --> 00:17:38.460
their fingers grow with them. And typically their

00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:42.599
finger strength is not really an issue. And while

00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:45.000
it's still beneficial maybe to start training

00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:49.579
to get to that really elite level, I would say

00:17:49.579 --> 00:17:53.160
what I got from this was almost every injury

00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:57.289
I saw was... more traditionally like total body

00:17:57.289 --> 00:17:59.710
work, meaning like I saw a lot of like ankle

00:17:59.710 --> 00:18:03.089
stuff, a lot of back stuff, neck injuries, definitely

00:18:03.089 --> 00:18:06.049
some shoulders. But ultimately it was those like

00:18:06.049 --> 00:18:08.230
big kind of coordination moves where like you

00:18:08.230 --> 00:18:09.970
have to like press with everything and like flex

00:18:09.970 --> 00:18:13.269
every muscle. And I saw a lot of more like straining

00:18:13.269 --> 00:18:16.650
those like pulling muscles as opposed to tweaking

00:18:16.650 --> 00:18:20.099
fingers or wrists that are like more joint. that

00:18:20.099 --> 00:18:22.680
in adults you don't really train because you

00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:25.160
typically grew up doing like more muscle -based

00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:27.480
sports, if that makes sense. Like muscle -based

00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:31.160
sports as opposed to like joint -based? Yeah,

00:18:31.180 --> 00:18:33.599
it's not like you're not using muscles in climbing,

00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:36.960
right? It's more so like, you know, soccer, like,

00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:39.000
you know, your traditional sports that you do,

00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:40.720
like track, whatever, right? Like weightlifting

00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:42.779
especially, right? Like I feel like climbers

00:18:42.779 --> 00:18:44.339
tend to be against weightlifting a lot of times,

00:18:44.420 --> 00:18:47.740
right? I think all of those do a good job of

00:18:47.740 --> 00:18:51.420
building like muscle strength. And in general

00:18:51.420 --> 00:18:55.160
with kids, they grow up already with like their

00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:57.240
tendons and their joints being pretty strong

00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:59.539
because they grow with it, right? They're doing

00:18:59.539 --> 00:19:01.980
the sport that is very body weight. So they're

00:19:01.980 --> 00:19:04.140
not shock loading their system by doing too much

00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:06.599
too soon. It's just very body weight based. And

00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:08.259
then as they start growing, they start kind of

00:19:08.259 --> 00:19:10.359
increasing their strength, filling out a little

00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:15.279
bit more. And so the higher risk tends to be

00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:19.430
in those like more total body like... um very

00:19:19.430 --> 00:19:22.329
hard on the muscles as opposed to hard on like

00:19:22.329 --> 00:19:26.250
your fingers or tendons typically it takes a

00:19:26.250 --> 00:19:28.849
lot longer to build tendon strength and adults

00:19:28.849 --> 00:19:31.269
don't really train fingers ever before climbing

00:19:31.269 --> 00:19:35.430
right so that's um yeah i don't see finger pain

00:19:35.430 --> 00:19:38.450
nearly as much in the in the youth athlete population

00:19:38.450 --> 00:19:41.069
okay that makes sense yeah so you mentioned that

00:19:41.069 --> 00:19:44.829
they kind of grow with their fingers um I've

00:19:44.829 --> 00:19:48.029
heard a little bit about like growth plate injuries,

00:19:48.190 --> 00:19:50.390
but I don't know much about it. I heard that's

00:19:50.390 --> 00:19:52.990
like finger related. So is that something you

00:19:52.990 --> 00:19:56.769
can get into a bit? Yeah, for sure. So I guess

00:19:56.769 --> 00:19:58.990
to give a brief background, like science background

00:19:58.990 --> 00:20:01.650
on it, growth plates are in every joint of the

00:20:01.650 --> 00:20:04.309
body. So it's not exclusive to fingers, like

00:20:04.309 --> 00:20:06.609
your knees, everywhere that you literally grow.

00:20:07.289 --> 00:20:10.430
There's plates there that are essentially almost

00:20:10.430 --> 00:20:13.730
like an open -ended, not closed off ending of

00:20:13.730 --> 00:20:16.750
that bone. So the bone grows from that position,

00:20:16.930 --> 00:20:20.089
right? And so those are like how you get bigger,

00:20:20.230 --> 00:20:22.670
right? Like every bone in your body gets a little

00:20:22.670 --> 00:20:25.829
bit bigger to an extent as you go through puberty.

00:20:25.930 --> 00:20:29.849
So with fingers, you have them in these positions

00:20:29.849 --> 00:20:33.849
as well, right? And a lot of times... It gets

00:20:33.849 --> 00:20:35.750
misdiagnosed as pulley injuries because that's

00:20:35.750 --> 00:20:38.450
the way more popular diagnosis in adults. However,

00:20:38.609 --> 00:20:40.930
like I mentioned, tendons typically tend to be

00:20:40.930 --> 00:20:43.269
really strong on youth athletes because they

00:20:43.269 --> 00:20:46.930
grew with it, right? So when you're growing and

00:20:46.930 --> 00:20:50.369
these joints are getting larger, the weak point

00:20:50.369 --> 00:20:53.109
of that whole part of the muscle or joint area

00:20:53.109 --> 00:20:56.210
is that growth plate itself. It's because it's

00:20:56.210 --> 00:20:57.930
literally, like I said, it's like an open cap,

00:20:58.049 --> 00:21:00.069
right? And so if the bone is growing through

00:21:00.069 --> 00:21:03.289
here, to allow it to grow, that part is more

00:21:03.289 --> 00:21:07.069
malleable. It's less stiff. And so when you load

00:21:07.069 --> 00:21:09.009
it a lot or like do a lot of like, yeah, just

00:21:09.009 --> 00:21:11.529
shock loading and high intensity training in

00:21:11.529 --> 00:21:14.490
those fingers, in those growth plates, the chance

00:21:14.490 --> 00:21:16.650
of injury there is just a lot higher as opposed

00:21:16.650 --> 00:21:18.589
to like your flexor tendons or your pulleys,

00:21:18.690 --> 00:21:20.470
which are more your traditional muscle tendon

00:21:20.470 --> 00:21:23.150
based stuff. So yeah, just kind of doing a little

00:21:23.150 --> 00:21:25.529
bit more damage on the growth plate and the joint

00:21:25.529 --> 00:21:27.490
area. You can get in the knees as well, right?

00:21:27.569 --> 00:21:31.079
A lot of like, a lot of runners. Youth athletes

00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:33.140
that are runners will get growth plate injuries

00:21:33.140 --> 00:21:36.660
for the knees. Same idea, right? You're shock

00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:38.420
loading that part by running, always putting

00:21:38.420 --> 00:21:42.160
a lot of bouncing stress into it. So same thing

00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:44.740
with kids. How old until that's not really a

00:21:44.740 --> 00:21:46.519
concern anymore? Is it when you're done with

00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:50.940
puberty? Until you're done growing, yeah. Females,

00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:54.440
I think usually it's anywhere from 10, 11 to

00:21:54.440 --> 00:21:58.000
maybe 15 or so. Then boys are usually a little

00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:00.769
bit later, like 13 to 17 maybe. How often does

00:22:00.769 --> 00:22:04.230
this finger growth plate injury come up in comp

00:22:04.230 --> 00:22:07.710
athletes? It is the most common finger injury

00:22:07.710 --> 00:22:11.410
in comp athletes. So while I don't think it's

00:22:11.410 --> 00:22:14.170
the most common injury period for them, when

00:22:14.170 --> 00:22:16.049
it's a finger injury, it's the first thing you

00:22:16.049 --> 00:22:19.450
want to rule out. And it is one of the only injuries

00:22:19.450 --> 00:22:23.069
that I would say needs a proper break from any

00:22:23.069 --> 00:22:26.369
loading there. Whereas a lot of pulley stuff,

00:22:26.549 --> 00:22:29.069
flexor tendon, or just a lot of other injuries

00:22:29.069 --> 00:22:31.750
for the body, um i typically wouldn't suggest

00:22:31.750 --> 00:22:34.750
complete break um this is one where you probably

00:22:34.750 --> 00:22:38.009
need to take a break and so uh coaches it's so

00:22:38.009 --> 00:22:39.990
it's always like on on coach's mind of like oh

00:22:39.990 --> 00:22:42.190
okay how is this a growth fracture right and

00:22:42.190 --> 00:22:45.390
like the best way to to see that is with an x

00:22:45.390 --> 00:22:49.029
-ray okay and like how long of a break does it

00:22:49.029 --> 00:22:52.170
take if the damage is like pretty small it could

00:22:52.170 --> 00:22:55.759
be anywhere from you know, a couple of weeks

00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:58.440
to if it's pretty bad, it could be like, I'd

00:22:58.440 --> 00:23:01.599
say two to six weeks on the high end. Okay. And

00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:03.559
like, you can still, you know, train grip strength,

00:23:03.700 --> 00:23:05.920
but just like really not load, hyper load up

00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:08.200
of that joint over there in the fingers. I think

00:23:08.200 --> 00:23:11.059
this was my second time seeing a glute fracture

00:23:11.059 --> 00:23:15.420
injury. And it was, yeah, just like a youth athlete

00:23:15.420 --> 00:23:18.980
from a neighboring gym. And we were working on

00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:21.720
a lot of finger stuff. His finger strength itself

00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:24.950
was extremely high. So it wasn't really matching

00:23:24.950 --> 00:23:27.130
with any of the other like normal protocols that

00:23:27.130 --> 00:23:30.609
I would do. And he would really only feel that

00:23:30.609 --> 00:23:33.490
discomfort when like at the end of sessions.

00:23:33.569 --> 00:23:35.569
So like things to pick up on are like, all right,

00:23:35.589 --> 00:23:37.190
like you can do a lot of these things, but when

00:23:37.190 --> 00:23:38.910
crimping and doing a lot of it afterwards, it

00:23:38.910 --> 00:23:41.029
feels very icky, like feeling like joint pain.

00:23:41.289 --> 00:23:43.289
You don't have arthritis when you're a kid, right?

00:23:43.470 --> 00:23:45.450
So typically any joint stuff is an immediate

00:23:45.450 --> 00:23:47.549
red flag of like, okay, something might be off

00:23:47.549 --> 00:23:52.130
there, right? And so the parents were just like

00:23:52.130 --> 00:23:55.519
very, um, adamant that it was a pulley injury

00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:57.700
and I had to like pull a few teeth to, to get

00:23:57.700 --> 00:23:59.220
an x -ray and it was confirmed to be a roughly

00:23:59.220 --> 00:24:02.299
fracture. Okay. So he did have to like take some

00:24:02.299 --> 00:24:03.779
time off there. He did have to take some time

00:24:03.779 --> 00:24:05.680
off, unfortunately, but it was, um, you know,

00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:08.299
I think it was, he was off maybe like three weeks

00:24:08.299 --> 00:24:11.299
or so. And then, then when he got back into the

00:24:11.299 --> 00:24:14.970
normal training, like he was totally fine. The

00:24:14.970 --> 00:24:17.910
thing is like he, we had like off sessions like

00:24:17.910 --> 00:24:20.049
every other week or so for like six weeks. And

00:24:20.049 --> 00:24:21.589
it was like the same of like, oh, I feel really

00:24:21.589 --> 00:24:23.250
good. But then I climb again and it feels off.

00:24:23.549 --> 00:24:26.529
So it's just like the quicker you try to diagnose

00:24:26.529 --> 00:24:29.150
these things, the more you save time, right?

00:24:29.250 --> 00:24:32.930
Like those six weeks didn't need to be completely,

00:24:32.970 --> 00:24:35.210
you know, used up like that. It could have, we

00:24:35.210 --> 00:24:36.630
could have taken a proper break and then build

00:24:36.630 --> 00:24:38.829
back up. Because it is, it's a fracture, right?

00:24:38.890 --> 00:24:41.509
Like it sounds scary, but it's your, it's a literal

00:24:41.509 --> 00:24:43.779
fracture. Yeah, thinking about like taking a

00:24:43.779 --> 00:24:45.640
break from climbing. There are a lot of people

00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:47.240
in my life who may or may not listen to this

00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:50.180
episode who think that I should be like climbing

00:24:50.180 --> 00:24:53.240
more through my injuries. And my thought process

00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:56.200
is I'm not really in a huge rush or even if I

00:24:56.200 --> 00:24:58.799
do have a comp coming up, I'd like rather have

00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:01.799
it be like a bit more healed than try to do like

00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:05.519
shitty, like half effective training where I

00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:09.059
like can't give it my all. Because, like, maybe

00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:11.640
I'll re -injure it or, like, make my injury worse.

00:25:13.140 --> 00:25:16.539
I guess, like, what's the move? Like, what's

00:25:16.539 --> 00:25:18.759
the right move here? I think that's totally fine.

00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:20.799
No, I'm not going to be like, no, you have to

00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:23.799
keep climbing. No, no, no. I think if you feel

00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:28.099
that it's no longer really that fun to be climbing

00:25:28.099 --> 00:25:30.039
when you're constantly in a little bit of that

00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:31.759
discomfort, like, yeah, why would you continue?

00:25:31.940 --> 00:25:34.359
Like, just let things heal properly. I think

00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:39.390
my opinion is more so just... especially for

00:25:39.390 --> 00:25:43.190
injuries to the finger where there's very little

00:25:43.190 --> 00:25:46.930
blood flow. Yeah, and then like, yeah, the science

00:25:46.930 --> 00:25:48.650
with that is just like pulleys just don't have

00:25:48.650 --> 00:25:50.289
as much blood flow as like muscles, right? Like

00:25:50.289 --> 00:25:52.269
tendons and ligaments just have less blood flow

00:25:52.269 --> 00:25:55.730
compared to muscles. They just won't heal completely

00:25:55.730 --> 00:25:58.450
with just rest, right? So you always have like,

00:25:58.609 --> 00:26:00.509
you can take a rest in the beginning because

00:26:00.509 --> 00:26:02.210
it's uncomfortable. And then as you get back

00:26:02.210 --> 00:26:04.170
into it, just make sure that you're not getting

00:26:04.170 --> 00:26:05.809
back to what your normal was. You have to like

00:26:05.809 --> 00:26:08.710
load things back up slowly. as opposed to something

00:26:08.710 --> 00:26:11.089
like a muscle tear. You can literally tear a

00:26:11.089 --> 00:26:13.289
muscle and it's going to hurt, it's going to

00:26:13.289 --> 00:26:16.109
suck, but after, I don't know, four weeks or

00:26:16.109 --> 00:26:20.049
so, you'll be back to 100%. It won't work that

00:26:20.049 --> 00:26:22.930
way with ligaments. Timeline -wise, it takes

00:26:22.930 --> 00:26:26.450
longer to heal, but also you could rest it pretty...

00:26:28.009 --> 00:26:30.869
You can just take a proper break and then work

00:26:30.869 --> 00:26:32.470
your way back and you should be totally fine

00:26:32.470 --> 00:26:34.769
with muscle injuries. Yeah, like ligament injuries,

00:26:34.890 --> 00:26:37.869
you have to be a lot more delicate with how you

00:26:37.869 --> 00:26:39.980
approach it. That's all. It's pretty rare to

00:26:39.980 --> 00:26:42.059
tear muscles when climbing, first of all. But

00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:44.119
if you do, right, and you like really like feel

00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:46.119
that kind of like, like almost like Velcro strap

00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:48.920
feeling in that muscle, and there's like a lot

00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:51.259
of pain, a lot of swelling, whatever. If you

00:26:51.259 --> 00:26:54.099
take it pretty easy and don't really climb on

00:26:54.099 --> 00:26:55.960
it for a few weeks, and now it starts getting

00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:58.000
less painful and you can do most things at this

00:26:58.000 --> 00:26:59.700
point, you're not really restricted in your range

00:26:59.700 --> 00:27:03.779
of motion. The chance of it getting back to 100

00:27:03.779 --> 00:27:08.019
% is quite high. as opposed to a pulley tear,

00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:10.039
where if you just take a complete break and let

00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:12.180
it heal like that, it'll have a lot more scar

00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:15.039
tissue buildup because it doesn't have a lot

00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:19.980
of blood flow. So rest away, but just understand

00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:22.240
that for some injuries that are more ligament

00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:25.220
-based, you should be doing some type of loading

00:27:25.220 --> 00:27:29.440
after an initial break. In general, what's the

00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:33.730
recommendation for like... when you can start

00:27:33.730 --> 00:27:36.710
like when you can climb on something i guess

00:27:36.710 --> 00:27:39.190
like to be clear um anytime i work with someone

00:27:39.190 --> 00:27:41.710
my one of my like interview questions or like

00:27:41.710 --> 00:27:43.410
consultation questions is like what is your goal

00:27:43.410 --> 00:27:46.130
out of this in terms of like i'll have competitive

00:27:46.130 --> 00:27:48.089
athletes to say i have a competition in two weeks

00:27:48.089 --> 00:27:50.549
i need to just get to the to the finish line

00:27:50.549 --> 00:27:53.130
you know and and my approach there is going to

00:27:53.130 --> 00:27:55.089
be very different than like okay i have this

00:27:55.089 --> 00:27:57.150
thing in three months that i want to be in good

00:27:57.150 --> 00:27:59.410
shape for versus like oh i just climb for hobby

00:27:59.410 --> 00:28:02.680
for fun and that Yeah, it's going to totally

00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:06.539
vary based on what your goals are. But as general

00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:10.220
timeline rules, I would say, I guess we can go

00:28:10.220 --> 00:28:12.880
by types of injuries. So I would classify like

00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:16.099
if it's more muscular based, anywhere from four

00:28:16.099 --> 00:28:19.420
to six weeks is pretty normal for you to be back

00:28:19.420 --> 00:28:24.980
to 100%. Tendons, depending on the severity of

00:28:24.980 --> 00:28:27.869
it, can take... say onto six to eight weeks,

00:28:27.990 --> 00:28:30.990
10 weeks plus if it's an actual tear. And then

00:28:30.990 --> 00:28:33.109
ligaments can be three months plus if it's a

00:28:33.109 --> 00:28:35.170
full tear of ligaments. But like, is that with

00:28:35.170 --> 00:28:36.950
like still being able to climb on it a little

00:28:36.950 --> 00:28:40.150
bit? If it's a full rupture, you definitely need

00:28:40.150 --> 00:28:42.750
to be taking some initial break and then doing

00:28:42.750 --> 00:28:44.789
some very light loading and then climbing, I

00:28:44.789 --> 00:28:47.130
would say, starts in like the second month or

00:28:47.130 --> 00:28:49.769
so. What happens if it is like a comp climber

00:28:49.769 --> 00:28:52.569
who has a comp in two weeks? I guess this kind

00:28:52.569 --> 00:28:54.130
of goes in a tandem, but this is a fun story.

00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:59.700
I was at a competition, Ed Method actually, and

00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:03.079
they do like a citizens competition. And there

00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:07.059
was a pro climber that came by and got injured

00:29:07.059 --> 00:29:09.160
during finals, during like the second to last

00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:13.859
boulder. And he needed to just get a zone on

00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:17.160
the last one to podium. And I was like the PT

00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:18.980
on staff, if you will. Not really. Like I was

00:29:18.980 --> 00:29:20.539
just in the crowd, but they always call me when

00:29:20.539 --> 00:29:23.460
anything happens. So they made an announcement

00:29:23.460 --> 00:29:25.140
and it was like, please come into the isolation

00:29:25.140 --> 00:29:27.920
area, Miguel. I was like, okay. So I went in

00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:29.759
there and I checked up on him and it was his

00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:32.980
knee, right? And so he fell, twisted on his knee.

00:29:33.259 --> 00:29:35.900
And I was like, all right, dude, it's like a

00:29:35.900 --> 00:29:39.180
tear of like the MCL, like a proper tear. Like

00:29:39.180 --> 00:29:42.039
I can move it more than I should be, right? So

00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:44.480
I was like, okay, my honest opinion is you do

00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:47.359
not climb this fourth boulder. The risk if you

00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:49.720
fall into it right now, you could, it's like

00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:51.779
a partial tear, let's say. And impossible to

00:29:51.779 --> 00:29:54.880
tear the extent, to tell the extent without imaging

00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:57.460
exactly. But I'm like, I'm very confident that

00:29:57.460 --> 00:29:59.980
it's at least a partial tear. It's not a full

00:29:59.980 --> 00:30:02.700
because it's not completely loosed. But if you

00:30:02.700 --> 00:30:04.680
fall in it again, chance is quite high for you

00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:08.079
to finish ripping that off. So I'd say let's

00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:12.030
not do that. You can't really walk on it. And

00:30:12.030 --> 00:30:15.069
he's like, okay, but what if I land on just the

00:30:15.069 --> 00:30:17.869
good leg on that last one? And I was like, what?

00:30:18.609 --> 00:30:20.910
And he's like, yeah, I looked at the boulder

00:30:20.910 --> 00:30:24.130
and the first move is very static to the zone.

00:30:24.190 --> 00:30:25.869
And then after the zone, you have to jump. But

00:30:25.869 --> 00:30:27.930
I won't do that. I just need a zone to get podium.

00:30:28.289 --> 00:30:30.930
And I was like blown away at the level of like,

00:30:31.069 --> 00:30:34.390
it's very smart, right? It's like he understood

00:30:34.390 --> 00:30:37.589
his limitation and what he needs to do to get

00:30:37.589 --> 00:30:40.750
to that. And as long as I was like. I said, I

00:30:40.750 --> 00:30:43.349
was like, as long as you are very confident in

00:30:43.349 --> 00:30:46.569
your self -control to not go for any jumpy move.

00:30:46.809 --> 00:30:48.990
And when you do get to zone, you're going to

00:30:48.990 --> 00:30:51.569
let go and land on the other side and tuck. I

00:30:51.569 --> 00:30:53.569
was like, there's a lot of ifs here, but if you

00:30:53.569 --> 00:30:55.069
really want to do that, that's how I would approach

00:30:55.069 --> 00:30:57.009
this. So I tipped him up and I was like, that's,

00:30:57.009 --> 00:30:59.869
that would be my opinion. Like I would probably

00:30:59.869 --> 00:31:01.329
not climb, but if you do want to do that, do

00:31:01.329 --> 00:31:03.269
all of these things. And he was like, got it.

00:31:03.549 --> 00:31:06.009
He did it. He got the zone and he hopped down

00:31:06.009 --> 00:31:08.390
exactly as I, as I said. And I was like, wow.

00:31:08.670 --> 00:31:12.269
I respect it. Okay. Nice. Yeah. If your mentality

00:31:12.269 --> 00:31:14.450
is like, I need to, to get to this, like it's,

00:31:14.450 --> 00:31:15.990
I've worked on it so long. Cause it's, I mean,

00:31:15.990 --> 00:31:18.609
if some, some of these, some of these kids, especially

00:31:18.609 --> 00:31:20.529
like they, they worked all year for this, right?

00:31:20.569 --> 00:31:22.690
Like to, to say you can't go to nationals is,

00:31:22.730 --> 00:31:25.250
is very heartbreaking. So as long as you kind

00:31:25.250 --> 00:31:29.210
of say all the things that clears like my responsibility

00:31:29.210 --> 00:31:32.769
from like, this is what I think. But if you want

00:31:32.769 --> 00:31:36.529
to compete. definitely don't do xyz so i i gave

00:31:36.529 --> 00:31:38.470
those instructions to him and he followed that

00:31:38.470 --> 00:31:40.930
and he was a little older he was i think 17 or

00:31:40.930 --> 00:31:44.069
18 so um i think you're able to better make those

00:31:44.069 --> 00:31:46.670
calls if you're if you have more experience in

00:31:46.670 --> 00:31:49.529
the game um and he did that so he he understand

00:31:49.529 --> 00:31:53.730
he he was like jumping on one leg to get to the

00:31:53.730 --> 00:31:58.150
boulder oh yeah well i'm glad that he was able

00:31:58.150 --> 00:32:01.109
to pull pull out that podium it was it was so

00:32:01.109 --> 00:32:03.839
wild to see because With the MCL tear, like you

00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:06.160
can toe down pretty good. You just can't do any

00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:08.500
type of like drop knees. You can't do any real

00:32:08.500 --> 00:32:11.700
like heel hooks or like put all your weight through

00:32:11.700 --> 00:32:13.240
it. But you can like use it. You can like use

00:32:13.240 --> 00:32:15.259
your glue and like push through it, right? So

00:32:15.259 --> 00:32:17.880
I was like, okay, you can do all these things

00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:21.099
that are required in that boulder, technically

00:32:21.099 --> 00:32:23.460
speaking, up to the zone. And he could have walked

00:32:23.460 --> 00:32:27.180
to the boulder then if he wanted to. He wasn't

00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:29.140
able to put that much weight on it. Oh, wow.

00:32:29.259 --> 00:32:32.390
Okay. Full weight on it. He wasn't able to stand

00:32:32.390 --> 00:32:35.769
on that one leg. So it was a bad injury. Wow.

00:32:35.890 --> 00:32:38.809
Yeah. Thanks for sharing that one. So, yeah,

00:32:38.849 --> 00:32:40.869
going back to the youth injuries, you mentioned

00:32:40.869 --> 00:32:43.750
that a lot of the more common injuries you see

00:32:43.750 --> 00:32:46.690
now are like full body or like shoulder, back,

00:32:46.750 --> 00:32:50.210
neck kind of stuff. How do they go about preventing

00:32:50.210 --> 00:32:51.950
these injuries? Like, is there a strength training

00:32:51.950 --> 00:32:54.349
that's helpful for preventing these? Yeah. So

00:32:54.349 --> 00:32:56.430
that's a big thing I'm trying to push more for.

00:32:56.569 --> 00:33:00.529
I think general strength training. The competitive

00:33:00.529 --> 00:33:02.470
team, like Matheta, I think is like very good

00:33:02.470 --> 00:33:06.150
at doing strength training as part of their curriculum,

00:33:06.369 --> 00:33:09.369
if you will. They have like full -on workouts,

00:33:09.789 --> 00:33:11.450
right? And they do like just general conditioning.

00:33:11.730 --> 00:33:14.529
I believe a lot more teams are incorporating

00:33:14.529 --> 00:33:16.650
something like this, especially at the national

00:33:16.650 --> 00:33:19.609
level. I was talking to some coaches and just

00:33:19.609 --> 00:33:21.650
like in the West Coast, like all over the country,

00:33:21.750 --> 00:33:25.109
they're doing more of a push for general strength

00:33:25.109 --> 00:33:28.289
training. And just like from me kind of sharing

00:33:28.289 --> 00:33:30.569
some of my thoughts. seeing the amount of people

00:33:30.569 --> 00:33:32.930
that i saw with ankle injuries with back injuries

00:33:32.930 --> 00:33:36.150
um at nationals like happening during the comp

00:33:36.150 --> 00:33:39.369
um they were all like yeah we're going to start

00:33:39.369 --> 00:33:41.369
implementing like ankle training so that was

00:33:41.369 --> 00:33:43.589
kind of cool like i think they saw that and in

00:33:43.589 --> 00:33:45.450
real time made the decision for next year to

00:33:45.450 --> 00:33:47.210
start doing more ankle training and it's not

00:33:47.210 --> 00:33:49.109
to be too complex right it can be like five minutes

00:33:49.109 --> 00:33:50.890
of your warm -up to just like work on some like

00:33:50.890 --> 00:33:54.190
ankle stability static and dynamic but you know

00:33:54.190 --> 00:33:56.730
we're we're we're at a point in competition climbing

00:33:56.730 --> 00:33:59.710
where we are we are really testing the limits

00:33:59.710 --> 00:34:02.009
of like what's possible so we are always like

00:34:02.009 --> 00:34:05.109
trying to um it's very like innovative with the

00:34:05.109 --> 00:34:08.789
how three -dimensional it is right and so it's

00:34:08.789 --> 00:34:10.630
rarely just like you place a foot and you engage

00:34:10.630 --> 00:34:12.710
the foot and you pull in there's a lot of like

00:34:12.710 --> 00:34:15.690
slab running across uh like a volume stuff like

00:34:15.690 --> 00:34:17.710
that and so you can easily twist ankles if you're

00:34:17.710 --> 00:34:19.789
not if you're not training that what does ankle

00:34:19.789 --> 00:34:21.969
training look like it could look like anywhere

00:34:21.969 --> 00:34:24.150
from if you're trying to build static strength

00:34:24.150 --> 00:34:28.019
and just like be able to hold a position like

00:34:28.019 --> 00:34:30.539
all your weight on like a small jib versus like

00:34:30.539 --> 00:34:33.000
on a volume, just like standing on one leg and

00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:35.340
adding different types of load. So like, I personally

00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:36.900
like a lot of the around the world, you take

00:34:36.900 --> 00:34:39.099
a kettlebell, you stand on one leg, take a kettlebell

00:34:39.099 --> 00:34:40.840
with the hands and just pass it around your body,

00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:43.739
like in around behind the back and like this.

00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:45.699
So you're doing that with with just standing

00:34:45.699 --> 00:34:49.199
on one leg. It makes the weight go a lot more

00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:50.980
in one direction, meaning the ankle has to like

00:34:50.980 --> 00:34:53.300
work those stabilizers. And then as it goes behind,

00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:55.400
you're never kind of staying in one position,

00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:58.219
right? So I like that a lot for static strength.

00:34:58.380 --> 00:35:01.079
And then dynamic, this is where I think would

00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:02.739
be really useful for like the more coordination

00:35:02.739 --> 00:35:07.280
style is going to be a lot of like single leg

00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:11.079
jumps, box jumps, multiple jumps of like doing

00:35:11.079 --> 00:35:12.940
like jumping in one direction and then immediately

00:35:12.940 --> 00:35:15.019
as soon as you land, jumping to a different direction,

00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.519
just like more proprioceptive stuff, meaning

00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:21.320
your body's ability to know where it's at at

00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:23.340
any time. So that's like basically never giving

00:35:23.340 --> 00:35:26.039
it time to like. think or like visually see it's

00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:28.960
like just like more react right okay how about

00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:32.239
this i'll like i'll go over some uh like dangerous

00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:35.139
moves that people think are like pretty scary

00:35:35.139 --> 00:35:38.000
in comps and get your thoughts on those moves

00:35:38.429 --> 00:35:40.389
Sure, yeah, I'll rank them. If you're interested

00:35:40.389 --> 00:35:42.789
in ad -free episodes and would like to unlock

00:35:42.789 --> 00:35:45.190
over four hours of deleted scenes, including

00:35:45.190 --> 00:35:47.289
one where Miguel talks about treating injuries

00:35:47.289 --> 00:35:50.050
that happened at Youth Nationals, do consider

00:35:50.050 --> 00:35:52.710
helping support this podcast on Patreon. Some

00:35:52.710 --> 00:35:54.710
other perks include a membership pin shipped

00:35:54.710 --> 00:35:57.150
to you after two months, prioritized guest questions,

00:35:57.170 --> 00:35:59.469
or the ability to submit video questions, and

00:35:59.469 --> 00:36:02.329
more to come. The proceeds go back into the podcast

00:36:02.329 --> 00:36:04.329
to help me break even, and they help me improve

00:36:04.329 --> 00:36:06.900
the experience of the guests. If you'd like to

00:36:06.900 --> 00:36:09.039
help out non -monetarily, liking, commenting,

00:36:09.139 --> 00:36:11.920
and sharing helps a great deal as well. Back

00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:14.460
to the show. Okay, first one, Downward Dinos.

00:36:15.219 --> 00:36:18.980
Two, I was just thinking like the hard mat situation

00:36:18.980 --> 00:36:22.099
in Burn, if you watched that World Cup. Yeah,

00:36:22.219 --> 00:36:25.260
yeah, yeah. Yeah, with like the spin. They tried

00:36:25.260 --> 00:36:28.739
to peel it, right? Yeah, and then like the crazy

00:36:28.739 --> 00:36:32.139
falls onto the apparently very hard mat. Third

00:36:32.139 --> 00:36:34.980
one. Haven't actually, I don't know if this has

00:36:34.980 --> 00:36:36.800
actually been said in a World Cup, but I've just

00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:40.139
like seen it online. Like the dual techs foot

00:36:40.139 --> 00:36:43.860
slide onto a chip. So you like jump onto dual

00:36:43.860 --> 00:36:46.079
techs and then like the point is that you're

00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:48.179
supposed to like slide off the dual techs onto

00:36:48.179 --> 00:36:50.599
a chip. I definitely see that on like a viral

00:36:50.599 --> 00:36:52.860
Instagram reel. Have they had that in like a

00:36:52.860 --> 00:36:54.840
World Cup? I don't know if they've like specifically

00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:58.340
set that. I remember in Salt Lake, they had something

00:36:58.340 --> 00:37:01.039
like kind of similar to that, I think. Okay.

00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:04.360
Like maybe that was like where, I don't know

00:37:04.360 --> 00:37:07.880
if Natalia hurt her knee on that one or if that

00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:09.920
was like a different boulder. And then she like

00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:11.519
her knee was, I think her knee was already kind

00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:15.139
of hurt, but then she still did that move. But

00:37:15.139 --> 00:37:17.360
yeah. Yeah, this might be, yeah, this might be

00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:18.880
a bit of a hot take on that. But I would say

00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:21.440
that the last one is probably the least dangerous

00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:25.059
in terms of it's, the most controllable in that

00:37:25.059 --> 00:37:26.900
you're you're trying to go for it yeah it's i

00:37:26.900 --> 00:37:29.820
think it's the scariest probably you're um you're

00:37:29.820 --> 00:37:32.300
you're going into into like a fast kind of like

00:37:32.300 --> 00:37:35.639
steak a move that is a lot of like single leg

00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:37.579
strength and stability training that you can

00:37:37.579 --> 00:37:40.920
do and prepare for that isn't that specific to

00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:44.239
that one move like by training single leg ankle

00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:47.280
stability dynamic like shock loading like jumping

00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:49.559
in different directions right all that stuff

00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:52.789
i think you're at a much better chance at hitting

00:37:52.789 --> 00:37:55.710
a move like that. I think when it starts becoming

00:37:55.710 --> 00:38:00.409
dangerous and not advisable is when you can't

00:38:00.409 --> 00:38:03.110
control factors. It's like outside factors, outside

00:38:03.110 --> 00:38:06.909
of control, right? So I would say it was the

00:38:06.909 --> 00:38:09.030
Matt thing. What was the other one? Downward

00:38:09.030 --> 00:38:12.530
Dinos. Downward Dinos. I believe they're banned

00:38:12.530 --> 00:38:15.309
in IFSC, right? So they just added it back in

00:38:15.309 --> 00:38:19.250
this year. Whoa. Okay. Although the Downward

00:38:19.250 --> 00:38:21.400
Dinos have been more like... I don't know if

00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:24.860
it was just because they wanted to add in the

00:38:24.860 --> 00:38:28.000
lache move. So it's not like you're jumping straight

00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:30.539
from something that's higher to lower with your

00:38:30.539 --> 00:38:33.739
arms. Oh, it's more so like the curve. Yeah.

00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:36.780
Seems like it. They haven't said anything crazier

00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:39.059
than that, I think. It just goes a little bit

00:38:39.059 --> 00:38:41.820
down with the lache, usually. Okay, I'd probably

00:38:41.820 --> 00:38:45.340
go for this one next, the downward dido. I think

00:38:45.340 --> 00:38:48.860
you can train your tendons to be a little bit

00:38:48.860 --> 00:38:51.269
better at like... dealing with the shock loading.

00:38:51.389 --> 00:38:55.170
However, physiologically speaking, you are absolutely

00:38:55.170 --> 00:38:58.349
more at risk at the fast eccentric component.

00:38:58.530 --> 00:38:59.670
Do you know what concentric versus eccentric

00:38:59.670 --> 00:39:02.550
is? No, let's get into that. Concentric is like,

00:39:02.570 --> 00:39:05.230
let's say my bicep here, I'm doing this. I'm

00:39:05.230 --> 00:39:07.429
using my bicep to bring it closer to me. That's

00:39:07.429 --> 00:39:10.590
concentric. Lengthening is eccentric. So muscle

00:39:10.590 --> 00:39:12.869
gets longer, but it's still being used, right?

00:39:13.429 --> 00:39:17.869
So when you're doing like a jump and grabbing

00:39:17.869 --> 00:39:19.969
onto something, you're not just going to have

00:39:19.969 --> 00:39:21.849
a full dead stop here. You're going to like slow

00:39:21.849 --> 00:39:23.369
the momentum this way. There's just too much

00:39:23.369 --> 00:39:25.289
weight at you, right? Because you're falling

00:39:25.289 --> 00:39:27.449
on it with momentum. So gravity is also pulling

00:39:27.449 --> 00:39:30.409
you down. So you hit it. And the fact that you're

00:39:30.409 --> 00:39:32.789
activating all your lats and biceps and fingers

00:39:32.789 --> 00:39:35.110
and everything is kind of pulling in at the same

00:39:35.110 --> 00:39:37.349
time that you're lengthening it, that is just

00:39:37.349 --> 00:39:41.909
more injurious by itself, always. And so I would

00:39:41.909 --> 00:39:47.659
say it is 100 % more dangerous to... do a move

00:39:47.659 --> 00:39:51.199
like that, like on a camper's board, I think

00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:55.679
I would never suggest as part of a training thing

00:39:55.679 --> 00:40:00.920
to go all the way up and then jump and down and

00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:03.099
catch yourself here on a 20 -mile ledger or something

00:40:03.099 --> 00:40:05.639
like that. I think the risk is just much higher

00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:07.800
than the reward. Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah.

00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:09.960
You're really shock loading your fingers while

00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:12.960
they're trying to get lengthened. I mean, I think

00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:15.159
if you have like a specific project and you want

00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:17.719
like bulletproof fingers, sure, we can work it

00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:21.280
like very lowly over time. But to 99 % of the

00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:24.340
population, the risk is always the reward on

00:40:24.340 --> 00:40:25.880
that. You always have to like think about like

00:40:25.880 --> 00:40:28.280
athlete risk versus reward. So I'm surprised

00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:29.760
that they put that back in. But I think it's

00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.840
probably the caveat of like if you're doing momentum

00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:35.019
with like laches and stuff like that. Yeah, I

00:40:35.019 --> 00:40:38.539
think so. And so then the worst one is the burn

00:40:38.539 --> 00:40:41.650
hard math situation. Yeah, not even the move

00:40:41.650 --> 00:40:44.289
itself, but I wasn't aware that the mats were

00:40:44.289 --> 00:40:47.230
significantly harder. I believe, yeah, like some

00:40:47.230 --> 00:40:49.150
people were saying that like they tried out like

00:40:49.150 --> 00:40:50.849
it's a different type of mat or something, but

00:40:50.849 --> 00:40:53.150
it looked like there was a bounce to it. So I

00:40:53.150 --> 00:40:56.929
would say we may have to reconsider how good.

00:40:57.210 --> 00:40:59.110
those types of mats are well i've heard some

00:40:59.110 --> 00:41:02.349
like uh conflicting info about like how hard

00:41:02.349 --> 00:41:04.889
mats should be i've heard that like hard mats

00:41:04.889 --> 00:41:07.090
can be better because then you're not going to

00:41:07.090 --> 00:41:09.670
like risk uh i guess like hurting your ankle

00:41:09.670 --> 00:41:12.510
or like uh twisting your ankle when you land

00:41:12.510 --> 00:41:17.030
um where like if the mat is too soft like maybe

00:41:17.030 --> 00:41:19.670
you'll like land on your feet weird i think if

00:41:19.670 --> 00:41:22.110
it's like like a like a mattress soft for sure

00:41:22.110 --> 00:41:26.199
like there's a lot more like give but i I don't

00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:30.199
think in most commercial gyms, it's like soft

00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:34.900
to that point. Also like the type of fall that

00:41:34.900 --> 00:41:36.760
you're going to have from setting a move that

00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:40.460
is like so wildly like dynamic, you're not going

00:41:40.460 --> 00:41:42.199
to be falling on your two feet. You're going

00:41:42.199 --> 00:41:43.980
to be on your back at some point, right? And

00:41:43.980 --> 00:41:47.260
so that kind of impact. But I don't know, that's

00:41:47.260 --> 00:41:48.519
tough, right? Because at the same point, like,

00:41:48.539 --> 00:41:50.780
no, that's bad to say. I was going to say like

00:41:50.780 --> 00:41:52.659
the worst thing that can happen is like you'll

00:41:52.659 --> 00:41:55.590
lose like your air a little bit. I know you can

00:41:55.590 --> 00:41:58.090
definitely like pull things by having like a

00:41:58.090 --> 00:42:00.630
hard, hard fall like that. So yeah, I think that

00:42:00.630 --> 00:42:03.750
stays as number one. The one place that has super,

00:42:03.809 --> 00:42:07.130
super soft mat is like Bouldering Project. I

00:42:07.130 --> 00:42:08.670
know in Seattle, at least, I don't know about

00:42:08.670 --> 00:42:10.150
like all the bouldering projects, but usually

00:42:10.150 --> 00:42:12.650
their mats are like super, super soft. Yeah,

00:42:12.769 --> 00:42:15.750
I'm not aware of that. So if it's too soft for

00:42:15.750 --> 00:42:18.110
sure, it can make it more likely for you to roll

00:42:18.110 --> 00:42:20.409
ankles. We got to find the Goldilocks. Yeah,

00:42:20.429 --> 00:42:22.130
basically it sounds like there's a lot of...

00:42:22.409 --> 00:42:25.570
specifics to what makes something like slightly

00:42:25.570 --> 00:42:27.869
more or less injury prone. Right. Do you want

00:42:27.869 --> 00:42:30.030
to get into any other hot takes that you have?

00:42:30.250 --> 00:42:34.309
Let's see. So I think tape, I use tape a lot.

00:42:34.349 --> 00:42:36.250
I like tape a lot as a source, as a resource.

00:42:37.130 --> 00:42:40.409
My hot take is that I think climbing as a whole

00:42:40.409 --> 00:42:45.329
really overestimates the value of tape and doesn't

00:42:45.329 --> 00:42:49.510
understand its uses or limitations as much as

00:42:49.510 --> 00:42:52.440
I'd like it to be. And I say that not as like

00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:54.820
to blame any coach that uses it. I think it absolutely

00:42:54.820 --> 00:42:58.079
works to support some things, right? But when

00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:00.280
it starts becoming like, oh, okay, this hurts.

00:43:00.340 --> 00:43:02.480
I'm going to tape it and still climb on it. You're

00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:05.820
very much masking a bigger problem. So I would

00:43:05.820 --> 00:43:10.059
classify use of tape as like really three different

00:43:10.059 --> 00:43:12.619
ways. One is going to be the best case scenario

00:43:12.619 --> 00:43:15.590
is you use it to. Know that you have an injury

00:43:15.590 --> 00:43:17.510
and you've been actively working towards that

00:43:17.510 --> 00:43:19.829
injury and it's used as a supportive structure

00:43:19.829 --> 00:43:22.610
so that you can still climb while rehabbing that

00:43:22.610 --> 00:43:26.030
injury. And any good kind of like PT or coach

00:43:26.030 --> 00:43:28.610
should be able to understand that that's what

00:43:28.610 --> 00:43:31.389
it's for, right? And I think most coaches do.

00:43:31.530 --> 00:43:35.130
I think it's more so let's try to educate a lot

00:43:35.130 --> 00:43:38.250
of athletes who see a lot of people in the World

00:43:38.250 --> 00:43:40.130
Cup circuit and everywhere just kind of use tape

00:43:40.130 --> 00:43:42.230
and think that that's what you should do when

00:43:42.230 --> 00:43:45.039
you're injured, right? um so that's like scenario

00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:48.219
number one right um i think the what ends up

00:43:48.219 --> 00:43:50.800
happening a lot is i have an injury i just pull

00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:53.320
the muscle uh or i pull like the most common

00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:54.980
ones like you'll see a lot of taping on the finger

00:43:54.980 --> 00:43:59.780
right for for like just random tweaks um when

00:43:59.780 --> 00:44:02.500
you use it to like oh this hurts when i do it

00:44:02.500 --> 00:44:04.820
let me put a tape on and it feels a bit better

00:44:04.820 --> 00:44:08.360
and you just continue that it it protects the

00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:11.960
pulley a little bit so that it's let um For any

00:44:11.960 --> 00:44:13.280
body part, right? But let's use the fingers as

00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:15.559
an example. It's protecting it a little bit,

00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:18.559
giving it some more support by like 10 % or so.

00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:22.820
But if you now have a feedback mechanism of like,

00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.159
oh, cool, I can do this with less pain now, you're

00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:27.960
going to try a little bit harder and the tape

00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:30.679
is not going to completely withstand the load

00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:33.929
anyway, right? It just gives the... a little

00:44:33.929 --> 00:44:36.369
bit more support. But if you like hit that threshold,

00:44:36.510 --> 00:44:39.269
let's say you can pull 50, like normally you

00:44:39.269 --> 00:44:41.030
can pull 100 pounds on this. But because you're

00:44:41.030 --> 00:44:42.710
a little tweaked, now you can only pull 80 pounds

00:44:42.710 --> 00:44:45.369
on it. With tape, let's say you can pull 90 pounds

00:44:45.369 --> 00:44:48.190
on it. We're making numbers up, right? But let's

00:44:48.190 --> 00:44:49.889
say that that's the case, right? And cool. Now

00:44:49.889 --> 00:44:51.969
what used to kind of hurt me doesn't really hurt

00:44:51.969 --> 00:44:54.329
me until I get to like my max level. But let's

00:44:54.329 --> 00:44:56.210
say I'm doing that in a foot slips. And now all

00:44:56.210 --> 00:44:57.530
of a sudden, all that weight went into there,

00:44:57.570 --> 00:44:59.809
we easily surpassed that 100 pounds and the chance

00:44:59.809 --> 00:45:02.159
of re -injury is much higher. And we wouldn't

00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:05.079
have that if we had a little bit more of a kind

00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:08.639
of real feedback from the hold from what we're

00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:11.599
feeling. Does that make sense? Okay. Yeah. So

00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:14.280
I think a lot of people use it in that way of

00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:16.199
like, I have something going on. Let me just

00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:17.840
put this on. It'll make you feel a bit better

00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:20.199
and then do whatever they're doing at normal

00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:22.500
level, which without trying to acknowledge that

00:45:22.500 --> 00:45:24.079
they do have something that they should actively

00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:27.000
work towards. And then the worst case scenario

00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:28.940
is when you use it when there's nothing wrong

00:45:28.940 --> 00:45:33.960
as a preventative means. I think it just creates

00:45:33.960 --> 00:45:37.880
a really bad dependency on something that is

00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:41.880
not doing anything. Okay. I guess a lot of people

00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:46.880
would continue taping. I guess I've done it just

00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:49.579
because I have been doing it and then I don't

00:45:49.579 --> 00:45:53.519
know when I can stop doing it. Like I don't know

00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:57.619
when it's healed. And that's like the main question,

00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:00.840
right? That's why if you work with a professional

00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:03.380
and you kind of have like guidance throughout

00:46:03.380 --> 00:46:05.860
this whole time, that question is easy to answer

00:46:05.860 --> 00:46:08.239
because they'll know where you're currently at

00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:10.219
and what your goal is and how you've been progressing,

00:46:10.340 --> 00:46:13.599
right? If you're doing self -rehab and it feels

00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:15.300
a lot better, but you've been using tape this

00:46:15.300 --> 00:46:16.900
whole time, it kind of gives you a false sense

00:46:16.900 --> 00:46:18.579
of security of like how good is the structure

00:46:18.579 --> 00:46:20.679
actually, right? And then if you just can kind

00:46:20.679 --> 00:46:24.800
of continue using. that support um for x amount

00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:27.579
of time after the injury is fully healed you

00:46:27.579 --> 00:46:30.380
feel that you can never quite push to the limit

00:46:30.380 --> 00:46:33.900
without this and it's just again giving you a

00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:37.300
little bit more of a snug fit not take it's not

00:46:37.300 --> 00:46:40.599
really taking any load away from it though so

00:46:40.599 --> 00:46:43.559
that's all i think um i would always encourage

00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:47.099
if there is no pain when you're climbing with

00:46:47.099 --> 00:46:51.239
tape um with whatever thing, right? And you've

00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:53.380
been doing that for two weeks is like my magic

00:46:53.380 --> 00:46:56.260
number. I like two weeks for seeing changes,

00:46:56.420 --> 00:46:58.480
right? If you're doing that for two weeks and

00:46:58.480 --> 00:46:59.880
you haven't been feeling pain for two weeks,

00:47:00.019 --> 00:47:03.579
try climbing without tape. And if the pain starts

00:47:03.579 --> 00:47:06.079
coming back, then it never healed properly. And

00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:10.239
we should take that seriously. If your cycle

00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:11.900
is like, okay, I did this for two weeks and then

00:47:11.900 --> 00:47:14.539
I climb without tape and it kind of started hurting

00:47:14.539 --> 00:47:16.699
again. And your response to that is, let me just

00:47:16.699 --> 00:47:19.130
put some tape on it again. that's what I mean

00:47:19.130 --> 00:47:20.889
of like you're consistently masking the problem,

00:47:21.050 --> 00:47:24.329
right? And that's the bad part I think about

00:47:24.329 --> 00:47:26.489
taping that I think a lot of people tend to fall

00:47:26.489 --> 00:47:29.570
into. That makes sense. Okay, I think one of

00:47:29.570 --> 00:47:31.469
the other hot takes you had mentioned, you said

00:47:31.469 --> 00:47:34.150
most injuries don't require time off the wall

00:47:34.150 --> 00:47:35.869
and knowing how to prevent it from worsening

00:47:35.869 --> 00:47:38.349
will save you a lot of frustration. So how do

00:47:38.349 --> 00:47:40.710
you prevent it from worsening? Yeah, that's difficult

00:47:40.710 --> 00:47:45.329
for, right? This is, how do you, so I think the

00:47:45.329 --> 00:47:48.019
only things I would say need a complete. time

00:47:48.019 --> 00:47:50.900
off the wall is like full tears or ruptures um

00:47:50.900 --> 00:47:54.079
whenever you see like deep bruising or changes

00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:56.860
in color in whatever whatever structure you're

00:47:56.860 --> 00:48:00.900
looking at or if there's any numbness um usually

00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:02.840
that's a sign of like some type of nerve irritation

00:48:02.840 --> 00:48:07.820
but basically any type um any type of pain that

00:48:07.820 --> 00:48:10.159
isn't mechanically driven and what i mean by

00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:12.780
that is if you can recreate the pain by doing

00:48:12.780 --> 00:48:15.719
something that's mechanically driven if you're

00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:17.650
just If you're just having like pain without

00:48:17.650 --> 00:48:19.190
doing anything, it's just kind of like a burning

00:48:19.190 --> 00:48:21.210
sensation. That's when I'm like, okay, that's

00:48:21.210 --> 00:48:23.309
a red flag. We need to take some time off slash

00:48:23.309 --> 00:48:26.309
get it checked out, right? But if it's like the

00:48:26.309 --> 00:48:28.710
easy example, again, let's say that you pop a

00:48:28.710 --> 00:48:32.170
pulley, right? It shouldn't just be in constant

00:48:32.170 --> 00:48:34.570
pain. If it is, you probably did some more damage

00:48:34.570 --> 00:48:36.730
to like all the surrounding structures. You should

00:48:36.730 --> 00:48:38.389
really only have the pain when you're actively

00:48:38.389 --> 00:48:40.230
engaging that flutter tendon because that puts

00:48:40.230 --> 00:48:42.269
pressure onto that pulley. Does that make sense?

00:48:42.730 --> 00:48:45.989
Okay, yeah. And so whenever you deal with more

00:48:45.989 --> 00:48:49.050
systemic issues, which is your non -mechanical

00:48:49.050 --> 00:48:54.210
based injuries, so like numbness, if you have

00:48:54.210 --> 00:48:56.449
a lot of deep bruising, discoloration, all of

00:48:56.449 --> 00:48:59.409
that is more blood vessel injuries, stuff like

00:48:59.409 --> 00:49:01.989
that. That's when I get it checked out. When

00:49:01.989 --> 00:49:05.869
it's purely mechanical, you typically want to

00:49:05.869 --> 00:49:09.489
be doing some type of loading for things to heal

00:49:09.489 --> 00:49:11.789
properly. Otherwise, there will be a buildup

00:49:11.789 --> 00:49:13.590
of scar tissue. So the body is really good at

00:49:13.590 --> 00:49:15.570
healing itself, but it heals itself in like a

00:49:15.570 --> 00:49:17.610
very short term aspect. If your goal is to continue

00:49:17.610 --> 00:49:20.510
climbing at a high level, you oftentimes don't

00:49:20.510 --> 00:49:22.769
want to take a complete break and then just kind

00:49:22.769 --> 00:49:25.530
of hop back into it because it more often than

00:49:25.530 --> 00:49:28.130
not didn't heal quite correctly. And fractures.

00:49:28.210 --> 00:49:29.469
I would definitely take a break with fractures.

00:49:29.789 --> 00:49:33.590
Okay. Makes sense. Okay. Good to know the differences

00:49:33.590 --> 00:49:35.289
between what you should and shouldn't take a

00:49:35.289 --> 00:49:38.250
break for. I guess if you aren't taking a break,

00:49:38.510 --> 00:49:42.820
how do you know what's too much? I would say

00:49:42.820 --> 00:49:46.519
pain, like pain theory that I tell to all my

00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:50.019
clients is if you feel that there is pain when

00:49:50.019 --> 00:49:53.940
doing a move, that is, I would say, I would classify

00:49:53.940 --> 00:49:56.380
it as sharp. So sharp meaning like it kind of

00:49:56.380 --> 00:49:58.119
like shoots up or down wherever you're feeling

00:49:58.119 --> 00:50:00.679
it or like an immediate zero to 100 pain. That's

00:50:00.679 --> 00:50:03.320
red flag. Don't do that move again. We're not

00:50:03.320 --> 00:50:05.039
ready for that yet. The body's just telling you,

00:50:05.079 --> 00:50:06.960
okay, cool. Let's do something easier or something

00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:10.730
not as aggressive. Um, if the pain is more dull,

00:50:10.889 --> 00:50:12.769
which is like kind of like creeping up on you

00:50:12.769 --> 00:50:16.409
and it gets worse with more reps or longer time

00:50:16.409 --> 00:50:19.550
that you're holding that hold, stay up to about

00:50:19.550 --> 00:50:21.809
like a three out of 10 is usually my, my benchmark.

00:50:22.130 --> 00:50:24.170
Um, if you get more than like a three out of

00:50:24.170 --> 00:50:26.389
10 dull achiness, that's another time to step,

00:50:26.429 --> 00:50:28.690
take a step away, take a break, try it again.

00:50:29.070 --> 00:50:31.989
Um, and if that continues, we know that that's

00:50:31.989 --> 00:50:35.349
too much, right? if it stays up to a three or

00:50:35.349 --> 00:50:37.550
less and it kind of feels that dull achiness,

00:50:37.590 --> 00:50:39.929
but it doesn't get any worse with prolonged time.

00:50:40.030 --> 00:50:42.090
In fact, it actually gets a bit better. That's

00:50:42.090 --> 00:50:44.489
the sweet spot. You want to feel a little bit

00:50:44.489 --> 00:50:47.070
of discomfort, right? You want to feel like you're

00:50:47.070 --> 00:50:49.050
trying a little bit. The tissues are clearly

00:50:49.050 --> 00:50:51.210
telling you, no, I'm not at 100%, but I need

00:50:51.210 --> 00:50:53.909
some of this load to get better. We want to stay

00:50:53.909 --> 00:50:56.269
in that like one to three out of 10 discomfort

00:50:56.269 --> 00:50:58.130
when we're doing things. Up to a four maybe,

00:50:58.289 --> 00:51:00.050
right? But yeah, anything that is like sharp

00:51:00.050 --> 00:51:03.969
goes to 100 really quickly or gets worse with

00:51:03.969 --> 00:51:06.510
more repetitions where we want to stay away from

00:51:06.510 --> 00:51:09.889
those. And then afterwards, if you end a session

00:51:09.889 --> 00:51:12.050
and let's say you never got to sharp pain and

00:51:12.050 --> 00:51:14.230
never got to over a three out of 10 and you end

00:51:14.230 --> 00:51:17.130
the session and it feels sore and that soreness

00:51:17.130 --> 00:51:19.909
goes away within a couple hours, you did just

00:51:19.909 --> 00:51:23.389
enough. If that lingers until the next day, you

00:51:23.389 --> 00:51:26.150
did too much. I see. And there's different injuries

00:51:26.150 --> 00:51:31.559
that will, more often than not present as longer

00:51:31.559 --> 00:51:35.980
lasting, as in like more acute in the way that

00:51:35.980 --> 00:51:37.920
you'll feel an immediate pain when doing something,

00:51:38.019 --> 00:51:41.000
something like a pulley tear. You don't need

00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:43.719
to, it'll be pretty obvious. Like you do a movement

00:51:43.719 --> 00:51:46.559
that'll hurt, right? Whereas something like a

00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:50.559
tendonitis issue or a flexor tendinitis, issues

00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:52.539
that are more like inflammation of an entire

00:51:52.539 --> 00:51:57.840
group. That won't really be as in your face during

00:51:57.840 --> 00:51:59.780
a specific move. It'll be more afterwards. And

00:51:59.780 --> 00:52:03.159
it's the accumulation of lower loads over time

00:52:03.159 --> 00:52:05.159
that will kind of get that achiness that you're

00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:08.280
feeling. Those tends to be the more frustrating

00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:10.280
ones. It's less obvious to catch on your own,

00:52:10.300 --> 00:52:12.079
right? And so working with a professional there

00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:16.380
is obviously of value. But my advice stands true

00:52:16.380 --> 00:52:19.949
of like, if you did... if you feel a little bit

00:52:19.949 --> 00:52:21.590
of achiness afterwards and it goes away in a

00:52:21.590 --> 00:52:24.050
couple hours, we did good. Call that a good session.

00:52:24.210 --> 00:52:26.349
Let's stay in that pocket. But if you never get

00:52:26.349 --> 00:52:28.530
to that pain level, you don't know what you can

00:52:28.530 --> 00:52:30.210
do and it'll just start kind of healing slightly

00:52:30.210 --> 00:52:32.630
incorrectly. That's all. Thanks for going into

00:52:32.630 --> 00:52:36.050
that. Okay. One thing that I thought about with

00:52:36.050 --> 00:52:38.769
like youth athletes, I feel like I've talked

00:52:38.769 --> 00:52:41.269
to a few youth athletes. Sometimes I ask about

00:52:41.269 --> 00:52:43.150
like what injuries they've had. And a lot of

00:52:43.150 --> 00:52:46.230
times I just hear like, oh, I've like never had

00:52:46.230 --> 00:52:48.869
an injury. Is that like the most important thing,

00:52:48.969 --> 00:52:51.610
like not getting injured? Because so many people

00:52:51.610 --> 00:52:53.329
I've talked to, it's just like, oh, I've never

00:52:53.329 --> 00:52:56.530
been injured. Like, wow, that's nice. Yeah. I

00:52:56.530 --> 00:52:58.710
don't know. I have this thought in my mind that

00:52:58.710 --> 00:53:00.670
like once you've injured something once, it will

00:53:00.670 --> 00:53:03.349
always be just like worse. Like you can rehab

00:53:03.349 --> 00:53:05.110
it as much as you want, but it will always be

00:53:05.110 --> 00:53:08.550
like worse. Okay. This is another thing that

00:53:08.550 --> 00:53:11.250
I kind of like tell a lot of my clients with

00:53:11.250 --> 00:53:12.829
like recurring injuries because I think chronic

00:53:12.829 --> 00:53:16.269
injuries are like the most – The hardest to deal

00:53:16.269 --> 00:53:18.590
with from a provider standpoint, because it's

00:53:18.590 --> 00:53:22.250
less of a blank manual of like, okay, if this

00:53:22.250 --> 00:53:23.809
and that, right? You have to like look at the

00:53:23.809 --> 00:53:27.269
whole kind of history and like your current climbing

00:53:27.269 --> 00:53:29.150
volume intensity, what you're doing on the rest

00:53:29.150 --> 00:53:31.530
days, all that stuff, right? So I always kind

00:53:31.530 --> 00:53:34.650
of go with the side of if you injure something,

00:53:34.789 --> 00:53:39.130
if it's a tear and it kind of healed, it's for

00:53:39.130 --> 00:53:40.949
the most part fine now, but like it always feels

00:53:40.949 --> 00:53:43.090
a little bit off. It probably healed in a way

00:53:43.090 --> 00:53:46.219
that it never really got. to that 100%. So it

00:53:46.219 --> 00:53:48.579
always got to like 90, 95%. And then your body

00:53:48.579 --> 00:53:50.860
got really good at like making up for it, right?

00:53:50.960 --> 00:53:54.199
And so my job is we want to be continuing to

00:53:54.199 --> 00:53:56.119
progress in climbing most of the time, right?

00:53:56.199 --> 00:54:00.699
And so I take a much more kind of movement -based

00:54:00.699 --> 00:54:05.989
approach for that end stage rehab, right? you

00:54:05.989 --> 00:54:08.809
can only do so much of like the lifting and like

00:54:08.809 --> 00:54:11.750
the hangboard stuff. Ultimately, something about

00:54:11.750 --> 00:54:14.809
how you're climbing is probably causing this

00:54:14.809 --> 00:54:17.070
recurring injury to happen. So I like to be a

00:54:17.070 --> 00:54:18.289
little bit more holistic with like, all right,

00:54:18.349 --> 00:54:21.670
how are we moving? Are we not taking enough weight

00:54:21.670 --> 00:54:23.230
from our feet? And that's why we're consistently

00:54:23.230 --> 00:54:24.769
over gripping or something like that, right?

00:54:24.869 --> 00:54:27.389
If we're like consistently chicken winging our

00:54:27.389 --> 00:54:30.369
shoulders, right? And some parts of our shoulders

00:54:30.369 --> 00:54:33.130
are taking more weight than others. We can rehab

00:54:33.130 --> 00:54:36.539
things all the time. And if you don't actually

00:54:36.539 --> 00:54:39.699
like change what is getting you in that place

00:54:39.699 --> 00:54:41.500
in the first place, then it's just going to be

00:54:41.500 --> 00:54:43.400
a chronic issue. But I think people think that,

00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:46.280
like what you said, if you injured it once, that

00:54:46.280 --> 00:54:47.800
thing is just never going to get better again.

00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:50.500
I think it's more so why did it happen in the

00:54:50.500 --> 00:54:52.400
first place? If it's just like a one -off acute

00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:54.239
injury or is it an accumulation of how you're

00:54:54.239 --> 00:54:56.960
climbing? And more often than not, it's something

00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:59.059
about how you're climbing. Okay. That is something

00:54:59.059 --> 00:55:01.650
I will have to think about. Yeah. And it's so

00:55:01.650 --> 00:55:03.909
hard to know on your own. And this is not me

00:55:03.909 --> 00:55:06.309
pitching my own services. I think I do it myself

00:55:06.309 --> 00:55:11.989
as well. I go to an OT when I have something

00:55:11.989 --> 00:55:14.570
wrong with myself because it's hard to take away

00:55:14.570 --> 00:55:18.469
my own bias. So I think understanding that getting

00:55:18.469 --> 00:55:21.969
frustrated is okay. But taking a step back and

00:55:21.969 --> 00:55:23.650
being like, why is this happening is going to

00:55:23.650 --> 00:55:27.150
be a much better question than, okay, how can

00:55:27.150 --> 00:55:30.179
I... How can I just rehab this on its own and

00:55:30.179 --> 00:55:33.639
like taking that as a vacuum, right? So yeah,

00:55:33.699 --> 00:55:37.900
I think with all the programming that I do, I

00:55:37.900 --> 00:55:42.579
always end with doing the hard stuff on the wall,

00:55:42.699 --> 00:55:45.320
right? Like if you got injured crimping, we will

00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:47.460
absolutely be doing crimping as part of like

00:55:47.460 --> 00:55:49.840
your last session. And so all my sessions are

00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:52.460
on. climbing gyms so like i have that look like

00:55:52.460 --> 00:55:54.139
be able to do all these like movement sessions

00:55:54.139 --> 00:55:56.659
in the gyms like that and uh that's for like

00:55:56.659 --> 00:55:59.179
all in -person stuff but for all my online programming

00:55:59.179 --> 00:56:02.699
very much so as part of the program i'll have

00:56:02.699 --> 00:56:04.800
like open climbing and i'll say like i want you

00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:06.900
to do a max board session and it's part of your

00:56:06.900 --> 00:56:10.239
rehab no okay yeah no that totally makes sense

00:56:10.239 --> 00:56:12.639
and yeah i was like thinking back on the injuries

00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:15.400
i had i guess like i had a lot of like wrist

00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:18.760
issues when i was like first starting and I was

00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:20.619
like oh my god like this is never gonna get better

00:56:20.619 --> 00:56:24.139
it like keeps re -injuring but then I just like

00:56:24.139 --> 00:56:26.039
yeah I haven't really had that since so that

00:56:26.039 --> 00:56:28.440
one kind of fixed itself now I just have like

00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:31.300
constant shoulder injuries that always come back

00:56:31.300 --> 00:56:34.380
up so yeah maybe one day if I fix my climbing

00:56:34.380 --> 00:56:37.300
that'll fix itself too yeah or like it's not

00:56:37.300 --> 00:56:38.940
just like fixing your climbing doesn't like get

00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:40.699
better at climbing it's more so like what are

00:56:40.699 --> 00:56:43.739
you doing in terms of like yeah like yeah like

00:56:43.739 --> 00:56:45.940
I'm definitely climbing in a way that's messing

00:56:45.940 --> 00:56:48.239
it up somehow I kind of figured that out. Another

00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:50.900
thing, though, I would say, like, yeah, unfortunately,

00:56:51.400 --> 00:56:55.079
like, it's a truth that the older you get, the

00:56:55.079 --> 00:56:58.360
longer it takes for things to heal. There's just,

00:56:58.360 --> 00:57:01.559
like, blood flow to that area. Like, youth athletes

00:57:01.559 --> 00:57:03.599
are just much more malleable. Like, their bodies

00:57:03.599 --> 00:57:05.599
can, like, they're like rubber bands, you know?

00:57:05.860 --> 00:57:08.159
Like, oh, my God, I've seen so many cases where,

00:57:08.219 --> 00:57:10.599
like, there's, like, a, like, I always measure

00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:12.800
one side to the other. And, like, one side will

00:57:12.800 --> 00:57:14.360
be, like, half of the other side if there's,

00:57:14.380 --> 00:57:17.570
like, a really bad injury. And, you know, I see

00:57:17.570 --> 00:57:19.190
them once or twice in like a couple of weeks,

00:57:19.210 --> 00:57:21.110
they're like back to 100%. It's insane. It's

00:57:21.110 --> 00:57:25.690
like, oh, it must be nice. But no, I think when

00:57:25.690 --> 00:57:27.710
we're dealing mostly with the adult population

00:57:27.710 --> 00:57:32.130
and you get to that 90%, the job isn't done there.

00:57:32.210 --> 00:57:35.750
We have to be stronger. So I guess let me share

00:57:35.750 --> 00:57:39.210
this too real quick. I popped a pulley like three

00:57:39.210 --> 00:57:41.960
years ago. That actually kind of led to me wanting

00:57:41.960 --> 00:57:44.980
to do this full time. But yeah, so I pop a pulley

00:57:44.980 --> 00:57:47.340
there and I knew that physiologically speaking,

00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:49.800
once the ligament is fully torn, it was a full

00:57:49.800 --> 00:57:52.400
rupture. It's never going to heal again in terms

00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:54.860
of like that pulley is gone. If you take a CT

00:57:54.860 --> 00:57:57.260
scan of me, like I do not have that pulley anymore.

00:57:57.460 --> 00:58:00.920
However, it is full of just like these kind of

00:58:00.920 --> 00:58:02.960
like adhesions that build up in the area. And

00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:04.599
overall, your body just gets really good over

00:58:04.599 --> 00:58:08.230
time being able to compensate for it. The way

00:58:08.230 --> 00:58:10.670
I explain it is, let's say this can pull 100

00:58:10.670 --> 00:58:13.190
pounds because of that injury, even though I

00:58:13.190 --> 00:58:15.110
did the rehab that I'm supposed to, it can only

00:58:15.110 --> 00:58:18.349
ever pull 90 pounds. However, that was when I

00:58:18.349 --> 00:58:21.670
was a V5 climber or V6 climber. Since I've gone

00:58:21.670 --> 00:58:24.730
up quite a few grades from there, I will now,

00:58:24.809 --> 00:58:27.289
instead of pulling 100 pounds here, I pull 120.

00:58:27.809 --> 00:58:31.070
But because of, in all my fingers, let's say,

00:58:31.090 --> 00:58:33.309
right? But now without 120 pounds on all the

00:58:33.309 --> 00:58:35.489
other fingers, this one is only 110. So it's

00:58:35.489 --> 00:58:39.230
never quite. what it could be, but 110 is still

00:58:39.230 --> 00:58:42.730
better than 100 pounds. That it was perfectly

00:58:42.730 --> 00:58:45.869
fine years ago. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay.

00:58:45.889 --> 00:58:47.369
So we just need to get to a point where we're

00:58:47.369 --> 00:58:51.309
like making up the difference by just in... continuing

00:58:51.309 --> 00:58:53.449
to like get stronger and like being past our

00:58:53.449 --> 00:58:55.929
normal level so that we don't really notice it

00:58:55.929 --> 00:58:58.590
as much. So that's kind of like my philosophy

00:58:58.590 --> 00:59:00.289
with it. It's like, it's, it's not a lost cause.

00:59:00.409 --> 00:59:03.030
Like I, you know, even, even in the absolute

00:59:03.030 --> 00:59:05.349
worst case scenario, which most of the time it

00:59:05.349 --> 00:59:08.050
isn't right. Like a rupture of a ligament is

00:59:08.050 --> 00:59:09.449
worst case scenario because that won't heal,

00:59:09.510 --> 00:59:12.409
but tendons like muscles, all of those heal quite

00:59:12.409 --> 00:59:16.289
well. Right. And so knowing that and knowing

00:59:16.289 --> 00:59:18.929
that it could heal and even, even if it won't

00:59:18.929 --> 00:59:21.619
heal, like. like completely like getting you

00:59:21.619 --> 00:59:24.179
to a higher threshold level so that you can tolerate

00:59:24.179 --> 00:59:27.360
these loads. I think just, it speaks volume.

00:59:27.440 --> 00:59:31.559
I think it's a consistent, you can always consistently

00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:35.500
improve. Okay, cool. So now going a bit into

00:59:35.500 --> 00:59:38.280
your own climbing, you climb quite a bit, like

00:59:38.280 --> 00:59:42.869
quite a lot yourself. You mentioned that you

00:59:42.869 --> 00:59:45.909
were training for Peruvian nationals. I am, yeah.

00:59:46.090 --> 00:59:47.570
This is my first time ever making this public,

00:59:47.630 --> 00:59:50.710
so this is fun. Yeah. What are the eligibility

00:59:50.710 --> 00:59:56.730
requirements for that? So I guess I wanted to

00:59:56.730 --> 01:00:00.869
throw my hand in there. I competed these last

01:00:00.869 --> 01:00:03.610
month in June, early June. Two months ago now,

01:00:03.630 --> 01:00:06.059
yeah. um just to kind of see where i was at i

01:00:06.059 --> 01:00:07.960
trained maybe like two to three months prior

01:00:07.960 --> 01:00:10.179
up to it just so i wasn't completely washed but

01:00:10.179 --> 01:00:13.880
um uh yeah i kind of like um first time ever

01:00:13.880 --> 01:00:15.780
doing some type of competition like that i went

01:00:15.780 --> 01:00:18.800
in and it's basically like the you go you go

01:00:18.800 --> 01:00:22.159
into into like whatever building it is and it's

01:00:22.159 --> 01:00:23.760
complete isolation right like you're you're kind

01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:25.340
of locked in with with all the training equipment

01:00:25.340 --> 01:00:28.440
um and then one by one you just get pulled in

01:00:28.440 --> 01:00:31.159
uh and the requirement pretty much you just have

01:00:31.159 --> 01:00:33.559
to be a citizen of that country Um, so I have

01:00:33.559 --> 01:00:36.219
dual citizenship and, and then qualify either,

01:00:36.300 --> 01:00:38.320
uh, at some competitions you need like prior

01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:41.460
entry for it. For Peru, you, you don't, it's,

01:00:41.460 --> 01:00:43.880
I, I don't think most, like, I think in the US

01:00:43.880 --> 01:00:45.820
you need to qualify to go to nationals by doing

01:00:45.820 --> 01:00:47.920
like ECS and stuff like that. In Peru you don't.

01:00:47.920 --> 01:00:50.059
So I was like completely newcomer, just kind

01:00:50.059 --> 01:00:53.360
of see what it was about. Um, and, and yeah,

01:00:53.420 --> 01:00:55.719
I, I kind of saw what the level was and, um,

01:00:55.860 --> 01:00:58.719
I, I don't think I'm too far off. So I'm, I'm,

01:00:58.719 --> 01:01:00.780
I'm taking this year to like. Really, really

01:01:00.780 --> 01:01:03.780
trained. Nice. Okay. How did you do in June?

01:01:03.980 --> 01:01:06.800
I got 18th. Oh yeah, that's not bad. Yeah. So

01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:08.800
you need, I think, top eight to make finals.

01:01:08.940 --> 01:01:11.500
And once you're in finals, again, every country

01:01:11.500 --> 01:01:13.739
is going to have like different policies. I believe

01:01:13.739 --> 01:01:17.659
top six make team, I want to say. So I have a

01:01:17.659 --> 01:01:20.039
long way to go, but I would say technique wise,

01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:22.809
I'm going to... Luckily, the facilities that

01:01:22.809 --> 01:01:25.269
I have access to, one, I'm in multiple facilities.

01:01:25.309 --> 01:01:28.650
I have five gyms. But just in the U .S. in general,

01:01:28.710 --> 01:01:31.489
the facilities are just so much more high tech

01:01:31.489 --> 01:01:34.010
than in Peru. It's still very much a new sport

01:01:34.010 --> 01:01:37.849
there. So they train a lot on spray boards and

01:01:37.849 --> 01:01:40.230
spray walls and stuff like that. And they're

01:01:40.230 --> 01:01:43.510
very physically strong. All of them can do one

01:01:43.510 --> 01:01:46.989
-arm pull -ups. No problem. But technique -wise,

01:01:47.210 --> 01:01:50.099
I would say it's... especially on like slab and

01:01:50.099 --> 01:01:52.840
coordination, it's definitely like a step back

01:01:52.840 --> 01:01:59.980
on what you would see in like even like a divisionals

01:01:59.980 --> 01:02:02.360
or definitely like a nationals level event here.

01:02:02.519 --> 01:02:05.320
Like it's not really that comparable. So how

01:02:05.320 --> 01:02:07.260
are you training for it? Do you have like a coach

01:02:07.260 --> 01:02:08.900
that you work with or are you doing your own

01:02:08.900 --> 01:02:11.210
programming? Yeah, I'm a big fan of the barter

01:02:11.210 --> 01:02:13.590
system. Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense,

01:02:13.750 --> 01:02:16.829
yeah. So I have done like trades with like seven

01:02:16.829 --> 01:02:20.250
or eight different coaches. Okay. I think I feel

01:02:20.250 --> 01:02:21.869
pretty good about writing my own training program,

01:02:22.010 --> 01:02:23.650
just like, you know, my understanding of how

01:02:23.650 --> 01:02:27.949
things work on my end. But the one -to -one kind

01:02:27.949 --> 01:02:30.329
of private coaching is, I think, super valuable

01:02:30.329 --> 01:02:33.550
for me. Having someone like pinpoint what I'm

01:02:33.550 --> 01:02:35.210
doing wrong and just kind of like coach me through

01:02:35.210 --> 01:02:38.349
it is really, really good. So yeah, I currently...

01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:43.219
I've worked a lot with a couple coaches in the

01:02:43.219 --> 01:02:46.280
area more consistently, but a bunch of times

01:02:46.280 --> 01:02:48.420
I'll do one -off sessions for a bunch of people.

01:02:48.619 --> 01:02:50.460
What's your training look like or what's the

01:02:50.460 --> 01:02:52.599
biggest weakness that you're working on? Physical

01:02:52.599 --> 01:02:56.619
strength by far. I thought I was a pretty physical

01:02:56.619 --> 01:03:00.159
climber, but they put all their stats in physicality.

01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:08.519
It's crazy to see. I would say Kordo and Yeah,

01:03:08.539 --> 01:03:11.760
just like coordination moves. I think even where

01:03:11.760 --> 01:03:14.159
I'm at right now, I think I'm at a level where

01:03:14.159 --> 01:03:17.780
it's good enough to like make the team. Whereas

01:03:17.780 --> 01:03:21.019
my physical strength is definitely ways away.

01:03:21.139 --> 01:03:24.960
So I want to build up a lot more like just contact

01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:28.219
strength, a lot more explosivity and just like

01:03:28.219 --> 01:03:30.300
holding on to really bad holds. That's the other

01:03:30.300 --> 01:03:32.119
thing. They don't have like the pristine, nice,

01:03:32.159 --> 01:03:34.860
like frictiony holds that we have here. So it's

01:03:34.860 --> 01:03:37.440
just like. just squeezing really hard on bad

01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:40.440
holds. Yeah. So like at the, at the comp, did

01:03:40.440 --> 01:03:43.440
they set a lot of like physical stuff that you

01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:45.440
couldn't do? Yeah. So like, I'm sure you're aware,

01:03:45.559 --> 01:03:47.260
right? Like usually, usually here there's like

01:03:47.260 --> 01:03:49.199
one physical boulder and like the other three

01:03:49.199 --> 01:03:51.400
are like more technique based, right? Like usually

01:03:51.400 --> 01:03:54.519
a slab, a cordo, whatever, right? There they

01:03:54.519 --> 01:03:57.800
had three physical boulders, one slab and one

01:03:57.800 --> 01:04:00.690
cordo. Oh, there were five. Yeah. Okay, interesting.

01:04:01.130 --> 01:04:04.309
Yeah, for the qualifiers. Yeah, I would love

01:04:04.309 --> 01:04:08.389
to see videos of that later if you have any footage

01:04:08.389 --> 01:04:11.530
of you doing the competition. The only footage

01:04:11.530 --> 01:04:14.050
I got was my grandpa taking it, and it's like

01:04:14.050 --> 01:04:18.730
a little camcorder. It's really bad, but it's

01:04:18.730 --> 01:04:20.909
very nice of him. Well, yeah, best of luck to

01:04:20.909 --> 01:04:23.829
you this year. Yeah, it'd be really cool if you

01:04:23.829 --> 01:04:26.110
made it in. What's like... Do you have like a

01:04:26.110 --> 01:04:29.610
final goal with that? Like make the team go to

01:04:29.610 --> 01:04:32.769
like World Cups or how does that work? If I make

01:04:32.769 --> 01:04:36.550
team, I can then go to any of the World Cups,

01:04:36.630 --> 01:04:40.489
right? So once I do that, I believe there's only

01:04:40.489 --> 01:04:43.409
two slots per, like IFSC changed this, so it's

01:04:43.409 --> 01:04:45.550
only two slots per country unless you have people

01:04:45.550 --> 01:04:49.510
in the top 50, which we don't. So yes, it'll

01:04:49.510 --> 01:04:52.230
be two per competition. The thing is Peru doesn't

01:04:52.230 --> 01:04:55.219
have a lot of budget. So they'll send like the

01:04:55.219 --> 01:04:57.920
top two people to a few of the comps and then

01:04:57.920 --> 01:04:59.539
the rest, they'll run out of money and be like,

01:04:59.639 --> 01:05:01.280
all right, well, anyone else down the pecking

01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:03.280
order, if you want to go, you have to like sponsor

01:05:03.280 --> 01:05:05.460
yourself. And that's where I come in, right?

01:05:06.159 --> 01:05:08.380
So I think I'm in a lucky spot where I think

01:05:08.380 --> 01:05:13.760
I'll definitely take my chance when... Yeah,

01:05:13.800 --> 01:05:15.539
I think definitely they wouldn't sponsor any

01:05:15.539 --> 01:05:18.300
of the Asia World Cups. So I would want to go

01:05:18.300 --> 01:05:20.199
to maybe a couple of the European ones, one of

01:05:20.199 --> 01:05:22.900
the Asian ones. I think it would just be super

01:05:22.900 --> 01:05:27.380
fun as just like a getaway. When am I ever going

01:05:27.380 --> 01:05:29.719
to have a chance to do an event like this and

01:05:29.719 --> 01:05:32.500
also just treat it as a vacation while I'm there?

01:05:33.980 --> 01:05:36.039
Plus, also, I think it just kind of looks pretty

01:05:36.039 --> 01:05:37.559
good from a marketing standpoint, right? That

01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:40.320
a climate -specific PT is also a World Cup competitor.

01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:42.190
That's kind of cool. that'd be really cool. It'd

01:05:42.190 --> 01:05:46.010
be really cool just to like get, like see like

01:05:46.010 --> 01:05:48.610
where the other competitors are at and then see

01:05:48.610 --> 01:05:50.409
what the level is like. I think it's a really

01:05:50.409 --> 01:05:53.070
good experience. It'd be really fun. Um, like

01:05:53.070 --> 01:05:56.989
I said, I, I think I, I never thought this would

01:05:56.989 --> 01:06:00.349
be nearly as possible. So I, I really only started

01:06:00.349 --> 01:06:03.590
training like a few months ago, um, to, yeah,

01:06:03.630 --> 01:06:05.670
I think everyone kind of hits a, like a plateau

01:06:05.670 --> 01:06:09.269
at certain point. Right. So to me, um, that was

01:06:09.269 --> 01:06:12.190
like the, The V8, V9 level is where I kind of

01:06:12.190 --> 01:06:16.409
hit the plateau. And so I think trying to like

01:06:16.409 --> 01:06:18.949
really push it from here requires a lot of like

01:06:18.949 --> 01:06:22.210
dedicated training and things like that. So I'm

01:06:22.210 --> 01:06:24.090
excited to see how far I can push it. And if

01:06:24.090 --> 01:06:26.429
I can make team, have a really cool experience

01:06:26.429 --> 01:06:28.090
at a World Cup, I'll definitely make a lot of

01:06:28.090 --> 01:06:30.070
cool content about it. No, that would be really

01:06:30.070 --> 01:06:32.289
sick. Yeah. Good luck to you. That'd be awesome.

01:06:32.469 --> 01:06:35.050
A dream. It's not going to be until May. So I

01:06:35.050 --> 01:06:37.170
have quite a few months to train. No, that's

01:06:37.170 --> 01:06:39.190
a good amount of time. Yeah, there's a lot that

01:06:39.190 --> 01:06:41.909
you can do in that amount of time. Awesome. Okay,

01:06:42.030 --> 01:06:45.050
cool. So let's get into some of the audience

01:06:45.050 --> 01:06:48.269
submitted questions. The first one, what advice

01:06:48.269 --> 01:06:50.829
would you give to PT students looking to work

01:06:50.829 --> 01:06:54.550
with climbers? I've had like three different

01:06:54.550 --> 01:06:57.670
cold emails asking me about this. Okay, you can

01:06:57.670 --> 01:07:01.610
answer it all here. Yeah, I would say. First

01:07:01.610 --> 01:07:03.570
of all, assuming that you're already in PT school

01:07:03.570 --> 01:07:07.070
and everything or trying to get into that, understanding

01:07:07.070 --> 01:07:12.230
that probably social media is the one thing that

01:07:12.230 --> 01:07:16.789
got my name more out there. If you don't really

01:07:16.789 --> 01:07:18.570
want to use social media at all, you just have

01:07:18.570 --> 01:07:20.610
to work a lot harder for building connections

01:07:20.610 --> 01:07:25.530
in that industry in general. It turns out to

01:07:25.530 --> 01:07:27.530
be a lot of if you can build connections with

01:07:27.530 --> 01:07:30.210
the gyms that you're working at, that helps a

01:07:30.210 --> 01:07:33.670
lot. you're gonna make a lot of people like within

01:07:33.670 --> 01:07:36.349
that community, like pretty happy with what you're

01:07:36.349 --> 01:07:40.650
offering. Also, there's a lot of continuing education

01:07:40.650 --> 01:07:42.829
classes that you can take because as I said,

01:07:42.869 --> 01:07:45.429
there's not that much focus on fingers and hands

01:07:45.429 --> 01:07:47.710
on physical therapy school. So I would definitely

01:07:47.710 --> 01:07:49.989
recommend doing like continuing education classes.

01:07:50.670 --> 01:07:52.769
Um, there are, there's a lot of great resources

01:07:52.769 --> 01:07:55.250
out there. I took a class with Jerry Baggy. Um,

01:07:55.449 --> 01:07:57.429
he's known, I believe as a climbing doctor in

01:07:57.429 --> 01:07:59.849
Instagram. So he's, uh, he offers like courses

01:07:59.849 --> 01:08:03.230
for PTs to take, or actually PT students as well

01:08:03.230 --> 01:08:06.230
can take it. And it's basically like PT for climbers

01:08:06.230 --> 01:08:08.530
specifically. That's what the course is. Um,

01:08:08.630 --> 01:08:10.530
so yeah, I took that course. I took a couple

01:08:10.530 --> 01:08:12.230
other stuff that is like more like, like manual

01:08:12.230 --> 01:08:14.090
driven, more for hands and wrists, stuff like

01:08:14.090 --> 01:08:17.649
that. So I, it required a lot of like deep research

01:08:17.649 --> 01:08:19.880
on my end. Because it's not something that gets

01:08:19.880 --> 01:08:22.039
taught too much in school. And then really applying

01:08:22.039 --> 01:08:25.199
that with the local community in my gym first.

01:08:25.819 --> 01:08:27.760
Eventually, social media started getting my name

01:08:27.760 --> 01:08:30.000
more out there. And then I kind of grew from

01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:34.119
there. But it was a grind. I would say I posted

01:08:34.119 --> 01:08:37.159
things on my social media. Started, I believe,

01:08:37.279 --> 01:08:42.470
February of 2022. And I didn't see my first client

01:08:42.470 --> 01:08:45.970
until I think it was like October of that year.

01:08:46.189 --> 01:08:49.029
Wow. Yeah. Social media is a grind. I think we

01:08:49.029 --> 01:08:51.510
all know that. It is a grind. It is not so easy.

01:08:52.430 --> 01:08:55.890
Okay. So next one, what are the pillars of a

01:08:55.890 --> 01:08:58.069
strong climbing warmup? Oh, that's a great question.

01:08:59.430 --> 01:09:02.130
Yeah. You can do so many things for a warmup.

01:09:02.189 --> 01:09:04.189
I think if I were to classify things, if you

01:09:04.189 --> 01:09:06.970
are warming, like getting some blood flow into

01:09:06.970 --> 01:09:09.130
your whole body. whether that's cardio, whether

01:09:09.130 --> 01:09:10.609
that's like doing something like jumping jacks

01:09:10.609 --> 01:09:12.569
or whatever, or just doing some like light pull

01:09:12.569 --> 01:09:15.630
-ups, just things to like be at a much lower

01:09:15.630 --> 01:09:17.310
level than what you're normally pulling, doing

01:09:17.310 --> 01:09:21.210
that. You can do like, just like on the wall,

01:09:21.270 --> 01:09:23.670
just like doing a traverse, like that works okay

01:09:23.670 --> 01:09:28.130
too. My big gripe is you got to warm up to what

01:09:28.130 --> 01:09:29.770
you're going to be climbing that day, especially

01:09:29.770 --> 01:09:32.470
if you have a particular project in mind. That's

01:09:32.470 --> 01:09:34.979
why I don't like, I don't like. The idea of like,

01:09:35.020 --> 01:09:36.979
this is like my one warmup every time I change

01:09:36.979 --> 01:09:38.500
up what I want to do based on what I want, what

01:09:38.500 --> 01:09:40.319
I want to work on that day. So in my training,

01:09:40.420 --> 01:09:43.979
I have a coordination day, a slab day, and a

01:09:43.979 --> 01:09:46.619
like two physical strength days. The warmup for

01:09:46.619 --> 01:09:48.539
those, for those three classifications are actually

01:09:48.539 --> 01:09:52.060
a good bit different. I hit the pillars of like

01:09:52.060 --> 01:09:54.000
getting some blood flow in my body. I'm getting

01:09:54.000 --> 01:09:56.239
some light movement by doing some like, you know,

01:09:56.260 --> 01:09:57.920
I'll do like five pull -ups. I'll do like a couple

01:09:57.920 --> 01:10:00.359
of explosive pull -ups, maybe a couple of pushups

01:10:00.359 --> 01:10:02.850
just to get some blood flow everywhere. And once

01:10:02.850 --> 01:10:04.949
I hit that, that's like kind of the only similarity.

01:10:05.010 --> 01:10:08.350
After that, if you're going for a more kind of

01:10:08.350 --> 01:10:10.810
like movement -based day, focus a lot more on

01:10:10.810 --> 01:10:13.069
like mobility. I like active mobility before

01:10:13.069 --> 01:10:17.689
passive. And then if you're going to be doing

01:10:17.689 --> 01:10:20.890
a lot of like coordination movements, definitely

01:10:20.890 --> 01:10:23.369
you got to be doing some type of like dynamic

01:10:23.369 --> 01:10:26.529
pull -up or like some type of like explosive

01:10:26.529 --> 01:10:29.989
thing before you get into that project. And then

01:10:29.989 --> 01:10:31.970
if you're just going to be like climbing on crimps

01:10:31.970 --> 01:10:33.850
all the time, like spend some time on the hangboard.

01:10:34.689 --> 01:10:36.289
Right. As long as we're kind of like hitting

01:10:36.289 --> 01:10:38.409
things at a lower level from what you're going

01:10:38.409 --> 01:10:40.210
to be climbing that day. And if your day is just

01:10:40.210 --> 01:10:41.550
like, oh, I just want to climb for fun. Yeah.

01:10:41.609 --> 01:10:44.930
Do little light hangboard. Just get some blood

01:10:44.930 --> 01:10:47.550
flow there. Some active mobility, some active

01:10:47.550 --> 01:10:49.350
stretches. Right. And then just like doing some

01:10:49.350 --> 01:10:51.390
regular pull up training, maybe a couple of pushups

01:10:51.390 --> 01:10:54.229
just to warm the pressing motions. And don't

01:10:54.229 --> 01:10:57.520
neglect the legs. I think that's another big

01:10:57.520 --> 01:10:59.460
one. I always include a couple of pistol squats

01:10:59.460 --> 01:11:02.760
in my warm -up. A couple of pistol squats. Okay.

01:11:02.819 --> 01:11:06.300
I need to warm up into a pistol squat. Yeah.

01:11:06.880 --> 01:11:08.720
Do just like sit to stand. I like to have it

01:11:08.720 --> 01:11:11.960
like a block. Just like stand and sit down from

01:11:11.960 --> 01:11:13.920
there. I guess like what about warm -ups for

01:11:13.920 --> 01:11:16.520
like competitors in ISO? I find it so hard to

01:11:16.520 --> 01:11:18.319
like warm up in ISO where you don't really have

01:11:18.319 --> 01:11:20.340
like a big space and then you have to like be

01:11:20.340 --> 01:11:23.479
prepared for anything. That's like, yeah, that's

01:11:23.479 --> 01:11:25.489
a hard warm -up for me. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's

01:11:25.489 --> 01:11:27.050
similar to what I just said, right? Of like,

01:11:27.149 --> 01:11:29.630
if you know that you're going to be doing a lot

01:11:29.630 --> 01:11:33.569
of like dynamic stuff, you got to make makeups

01:11:33.569 --> 01:11:35.470
on this, on the wall. So like I saw this so much

01:11:35.470 --> 01:11:37.250
at nationals and the coaches do such a cool job

01:11:37.250 --> 01:11:39.909
of this. Like these are, these are people who

01:11:39.909 --> 01:11:42.989
are going to be doing V10 plus boulders in a

01:11:42.989 --> 01:11:44.949
couple minutes or like in an hour. Right. And

01:11:44.949 --> 01:11:47.859
so with. the the things that are available to

01:11:47.859 --> 01:11:50.479
them they're like going from from one hold to

01:11:50.479 --> 01:11:52.720
a boulder that is like has nothing to do with

01:11:52.720 --> 01:11:54.479
it right just like different crosses but just

01:11:54.479 --> 01:11:58.380
making like makeups of moves that i think will

01:11:58.380 --> 01:12:00.239
get the body moving in the right way it's going

01:12:00.239 --> 01:12:03.300
to be super cool so i'd spend um i usually spend

01:12:03.300 --> 01:12:06.100
like five minutes on the spray wall if your gym

01:12:06.100 --> 01:12:08.800
doesn't have a spray wall um i would just do

01:12:08.800 --> 01:12:12.159
like some like light like you know whatever grades

01:12:12.159 --> 01:12:15.109
you climb like a greater tube below your flash

01:12:15.109 --> 01:12:18.810
level. Climb it at least once very static and

01:12:18.810 --> 01:12:22.710
once fast using momentum. Okay, cool. Last question.

01:12:22.750 --> 01:12:25.569
This is a little bit general. So I'm trying to

01:12:25.569 --> 01:12:28.670
think of how to ask this. Well, so the question

01:12:28.670 --> 01:12:30.949
itself is what exercises do you recommend for

01:12:30.949 --> 01:12:33.810
injury prevention? Of course, there's a bunch

01:12:33.810 --> 01:12:36.090
of different exercises for whatever injury you're

01:12:36.090 --> 01:12:40.050
trying to do. So maybe pick like two most common

01:12:40.050 --> 01:12:43.569
like comp injuries and what exercises you would

01:12:43.569 --> 01:12:47.250
suggest for strengthening those. For specifically

01:12:47.250 --> 01:12:49.800
for comp climbers? We could just do climbing

01:12:49.800 --> 01:12:52.699
in general. The most common thing I see is fingers.

01:12:52.819 --> 01:12:57.060
So I think if you don't do some type of hangboard

01:12:57.060 --> 01:13:02.340
or block pickups as part of your warmup, you

01:13:02.340 --> 01:13:07.079
absolutely should. My biggest gripe is when you

01:13:07.079 --> 01:13:12.380
just warm up on B0 -2s on jugs and then you hop

01:13:12.380 --> 01:13:15.079
into a crimpy climb after that. You did not warm

01:13:15.079 --> 01:13:17.800
up your fingers at all. Like you're just pulling

01:13:17.800 --> 01:13:20.840
on like bucket handles. So that doesn't do anything

01:13:20.840 --> 01:13:22.600
to your actually pulleys and flexor tendons.

01:13:22.699 --> 01:13:25.180
So yeah, if you don't already do some type of

01:13:25.180 --> 01:13:27.520
handboard, let's definitely incorporate that.

01:13:29.260 --> 01:13:32.199
There's a cool study that was posted that says

01:13:32.199 --> 01:13:34.979
that the most optimal, meaning optimal, they

01:13:34.979 --> 01:13:39.680
define as the chance of injuring that tissue

01:13:39.680 --> 01:13:44.939
is negligible or with more warmup. it does not

01:13:44.939 --> 01:13:46.899
make it more warm, if that makes sense. Like

01:13:46.899 --> 01:13:48.840
it's as warm as it can get. That's how they define

01:13:48.840 --> 01:13:51.819
optimal. Like the tissue has as much blood flow

01:13:51.819 --> 01:13:54.840
as it wants to get, as it can get. And so at

01:13:54.840 --> 01:13:57.699
that point to you doing 30 more minutes of climbing,

01:13:57.859 --> 01:14:00.699
it's not any more warm. So that's how they define

01:14:00.699 --> 01:14:03.079
that. And they said that to get to that point

01:14:03.079 --> 01:14:10.979
was between 100 and 120 moves. Whoa, okay. And

01:14:10.979 --> 01:14:12.539
like with move, it can be like, yeah, just like

01:14:12.539 --> 01:14:14.539
you're on a wall and like, you know, 50 to 60

01:14:14.539 --> 01:14:17.239
moves per hand. That's like your optimal warmup,

01:14:17.260 --> 01:14:19.760
right? And so I think that just puts them into

01:14:19.760 --> 01:14:21.979
perspective of like, we probably don't do enough

01:14:21.979 --> 01:14:25.300
of, this is for specifically for pulleys. So

01:14:25.300 --> 01:14:27.619
being that pulleys are probably the most common

01:14:27.619 --> 01:14:30.800
adult injury that I see. So like 100 to 120 moves

01:14:30.800 --> 01:14:36.300
of like crimpy, like smaller edge. I guess. Yeah.

01:14:36.380 --> 01:14:37.819
I wouldn't call it like, like super small edge,

01:14:37.899 --> 01:14:39.420
but like any where you're like actually like

01:14:39.420 --> 01:14:42.520
engaging in. Yeah. Yeah. And so you can do that.

01:14:42.560 --> 01:14:44.300
You can, instead of just doing so many moves

01:14:44.300 --> 01:14:46.420
like that, you can do a lot on the hangboard,

01:14:46.439 --> 01:14:49.500
you know? And, and you know, like if you do like

01:14:49.500 --> 01:14:52.260
a seven on three off repeater, how can you classify

01:14:52.260 --> 01:14:54.420
seven seconds as like one move? Right. It's,

01:14:54.479 --> 01:14:56.760
it's so hard to like, then we're like getting

01:14:56.760 --> 01:14:59.140
super like, like picky with this type of stuff.

01:14:59.159 --> 01:15:03.119
But I think it just helps to pose a, a bit more

01:15:03.119 --> 01:15:07.109
of like a, a, Bigger picture that we more likely

01:15:07.109 --> 01:15:10.289
than not don't warm up the actual flexor tendon

01:15:10.289 --> 01:15:14.189
enough before we get into our performance part.

01:15:14.430 --> 01:15:17.250
So keep that in mind. Just do like a few hangs

01:15:17.250 --> 01:15:19.449
on the hangboard or if you're going to be, if

01:15:19.449 --> 01:15:21.729
most of your warmup happens on the wall, just

01:15:21.729 --> 01:15:23.289
make sure you're intentional about like pulling

01:15:23.289 --> 01:15:26.430
in. And you can like pull in and grab, like crimp

01:15:26.430 --> 01:15:28.409
a juggy hold, right? Just like you have to be

01:15:28.409 --> 01:15:30.649
intentional with it. What about like a, okay,

01:15:30.710 --> 01:15:33.539
what's like the most common comp injury? an exercise

01:15:33.539 --> 01:15:35.520
you would recommend for that? I think shoulders.

01:15:35.939 --> 01:15:39.640
Oh, yes. You're a fan of shoulders? Well, it's

01:15:39.640 --> 01:15:41.579
just that my shoulder is always injured. So if

01:15:41.579 --> 01:15:43.939
I could, you know, get an exercise for that,

01:15:43.979 --> 01:15:46.979
that'd be great. Yeah. Okay. So there's a ton

01:15:46.979 --> 01:15:49.500
of like shoulder rotator cuff strengthening stuff.

01:15:50.140 --> 01:15:52.420
I think I see a lot of people like do like the

01:15:52.420 --> 01:15:55.140
kind of like this stuff with the band or like

01:15:55.140 --> 01:15:59.319
external rotation. Those are all good for warming

01:15:59.319 --> 01:16:03.140
up those muscles to start firing. But I do think

01:16:03.140 --> 01:16:06.300
most of the time, shoulder injuries happen from

01:16:06.300 --> 01:16:10.140
dynamic movement or just moves that are more

01:16:10.140 --> 01:16:12.260
three -dimensional. And so what I mean by that

01:16:12.260 --> 01:16:14.319
is if you're at a Gaston and you're pulling,

01:16:14.560 --> 01:16:16.420
you're pulling this way, but gravity is pulling

01:16:16.420 --> 01:16:18.739
you down. So there's a lot of forces acting on

01:16:18.739 --> 01:16:22.460
the shoulder. And by doing just one move against

01:16:22.460 --> 01:16:25.380
resistance, you're just working one axis. one

01:16:25.380 --> 01:16:28.600
axis, right? And the shoulder moves in all three

01:16:28.600 --> 01:16:32.840
axes. So because it's such a movable joint, like

01:16:32.840 --> 01:16:35.199
fingers only bend, right? And extend. The shoulders

01:16:35.199 --> 01:16:37.739
can go forward, side, and then rotate, right?

01:16:37.819 --> 01:16:40.539
So because of that, it makes warming up the shoulder

01:16:40.539 --> 01:16:43.439
a little bit more nuanced and that you shouldn't

01:16:43.439 --> 01:16:46.779
just work one move at a time. Does that make

01:16:46.779 --> 01:16:48.239
sense? Like one move at a time being like, if

01:16:48.239 --> 01:16:50.060
you attach a band here and you go against the

01:16:50.060 --> 01:16:54.119
band, that's one axis, right? Right. So what

01:16:54.119 --> 01:16:58.920
I would suggest is taking like a band and like

01:16:58.920 --> 01:17:01.640
pushing against it. Like if there's like a loop

01:17:01.640 --> 01:17:03.779
or something like that, and then adding other

01:17:03.779 --> 01:17:05.680
movements. So like you can go up, you can go

01:17:05.680 --> 01:17:08.220
to the side, but doing the same type of motion

01:17:08.220 --> 01:17:09.899
of external rotation, because that's what you're

01:17:09.899 --> 01:17:11.899
using a lot of to keep you on the wall, but in

01:17:11.899 --> 01:17:14.739
different positions with movement. Oh, okay.

01:17:14.880 --> 01:17:16.460
I like that a lot. And that's a good one for

01:17:16.460 --> 01:17:19.460
injury prevention. Okay, perfect. And then going

01:17:19.460 --> 01:17:21.159
even a little bit further, like on the wall,

01:17:21.239 --> 01:17:25.439
like. Like do some like little jumps to jugs

01:17:25.439 --> 01:17:27.699
and just kind of like, or jump to a bar, right?

01:17:27.939 --> 01:17:29.979
Just the fact that you're like trying to activate

01:17:29.979 --> 01:17:34.960
with zero lag, right? All right. Well, that's

01:17:34.960 --> 01:17:36.960
all the questions I had for today then. Thanks

01:17:36.960 --> 01:17:40.140
for joining me. Any last minute like thoughts

01:17:40.140 --> 01:17:41.739
or words of wisdom you want to get out there?

01:17:42.079 --> 01:17:44.140
No, I think, no, this is really fun. I think

01:17:44.140 --> 01:17:49.430
just the more on if you want to be. like for

01:17:49.430 --> 01:17:51.229
the students or people that want to be in climbing

01:17:51.229 --> 01:17:54.630
PT. I think it's a really cool niche that I've

01:17:54.630 --> 01:17:57.649
built out for myself. And if that's something

01:17:57.649 --> 01:18:00.029
that you want to like follow, like for sure do.

01:18:00.109 --> 01:18:02.710
I think we need more climbing specific PTs. I'm

01:18:02.710 --> 01:18:05.989
hoping that this becomes a, I think the sport

01:18:05.989 --> 01:18:08.890
has grown a lot, but I hope it becomes like an

01:18:08.890 --> 01:18:12.869
NCAA sport at some point. And then when that

01:18:12.869 --> 01:18:14.329
happens, there's a lot more money in the game.

01:18:14.510 --> 01:18:18.010
And then, you know, we can actually. we should

01:18:18.010 --> 01:18:20.369
be having a lot more attention to like health

01:18:20.369 --> 01:18:23.329
of athletes and and so um hopefully this is the

01:18:23.329 --> 01:18:26.109
beginning of something really cool and um i'm

01:18:26.109 --> 01:18:27.869
glad that i'm taking part of it hopefully a little

01:18:27.869 --> 01:18:30.909
bit awesome okay and where can people find you

01:18:30.909 --> 01:18:33.869
uh so on instagram i'm at climbing .rehab and

01:18:33.869 --> 01:18:36.229
my website is climbingrehab .com super easy to

01:18:36.229 --> 01:18:38.489
remember nice handle i feel like that's that's

01:18:38.489 --> 01:18:41.750
a hard one to get yeah right yeah there's a little

01:18:41.750 --> 01:18:44.279
dot because i think i'm was taken yeah that makes

01:18:44.279 --> 01:18:46.680
sense that was kind of cool yeah okay cool well

01:18:46.680 --> 01:18:48.500
awesome thank you again it was amazing to talk

01:18:48.500 --> 01:18:50.479
to you awesome thank you so much that was fun

01:18:50.479 --> 01:18:53.100
thank you so much for making it to the end of

01:18:53.100 --> 01:18:55.539
the podcast don't forget to like and subscribe

01:18:55.539 --> 01:18:58.600
if you enjoyed otherwise you are a super big

01:18:58.600 --> 01:19:01.739
climber if you're listening on a podcasting platform

01:19:01.739 --> 01:19:04.520
i'd appreciate if you rate it five stars and

01:19:04.520 --> 01:19:07.619
you can continue the discussion on the free competition

01:19:07.619 --> 01:19:10.779
climbing discord linked in the description thanks

01:19:10.779 --> 01:19:14.840
again for listening Thank you.