If you want a sister, Nekaia is the ideal, like,
sister. She's just that interesting. Nah, let's
not do that. If you're constantly having someone
else be the, this is the special one or whatever,
that kind of made me not want to pursue it. I
didn't feel like I belonged there. Like, I had
all of this, like, chatter in my head of being
like, I'm bringing down the level of the World
Cups. I'm not supposed to be here. I'm not ready.
I'm blah, blah, blah. Like recently we went outside
and it was like the first time in like two years
and we both did our first 10 within like a few
tries. But everyone wants to know, are you guys
related to Annie Sanders? Welcome to another
episode of the That's Now World Climbing podcast.
I'm your host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce
my guests for today, Nekaia and Sovarae Sanders.
You may recognize Nekaia from when she recently
made her first Boulder World Cup finals in Curitiba,
and her sister Sovarae podiumed at her last
USA Youth Boulder Nationals. In this episode,
we get a lot of insight into their sibling dynamic
as comp climbers. We'll hear about Nekaia's experience
in Kurachiba and Sovarae's experience going
through mental battles at comps. And we'll have
some fun conversations about food and Harry Potter.
They were such a joy to talk to, so I hope you
enjoy this episode with the Sanders sisters.
I'm excited to announce that my sponsor, Mad
Rock Climbing, just came out with a brand new
pair of shoes, the Remora Pro. I was so excited
to try them on that even though I broke a toe
on my right foot, I had to at least try on the
left shoe. So I can definitely say that the Remora
Pro is better than a rental shoe. But really,
these are their softest shoe ever, which means
you no longer need to worry about standing on
sketchy volumes and comps. They also have a crazy
3D heel that allows you to get more surface area
when heel hooking and inserts that lock your
heel into the shoe no matter how hard you're
pulling. Feel free to message me if you have
any questions about the shoes or sizing and you
can use the discount code NOTREALCLIMBER for
10 % off your entire Mad Rock order. Back to
the show. Why'd you decide to do the haircut?
Oh, okay. I love having my hair short. I've had
it a few times short. Oh, really? Yeah, like
I think the first time I cut all my hair off,
I was like 14, maybe 13. I just really like the
feeling of it. And I've been really wanting to
for like a while. And I like, yeah, I finally
was like, okay, I'm just going to do it. Ever
since she was little, she was like obsessed with
having her hair short. Like that was always a
thing. I like how it looks before. I like short
hair. Have you ever considered like, full bald
yeah oh my god really well so i really want to
buzz my head at some point in my life i think
it might look like a bowling ball but i like
it i want to uh and i actually like the picture
i showed the guy was like a bit longer than this
and he went a lot shorter like it made me like
i'm like okay i could look decent with like short
short so maybe maybe next time you see me That
would be crazy. I would love to see it. But yeah,
how are you guys doing? Do you guys have like
a rest day today? We just got back like 20 minutes
ago from our first session. Then when this is
done, we'll go back. What is your usual gym out
there? We climb a little bit at Movement and
then the Rock City Training Center. And LBR too,
or we'll go to San Diego. We climb everywhere.
Did you guys go to... the new or it's not like
new grotto but the new uh since it's had all
the changes not yet have you no i sorry i told
you guys i was gonna go but then i broke my toe
and i thought it'd be better by now but it's
still not so then i was doing like lateral jumps
and i wasn't wearing shoes and then i like jumped
to the right side but my pinky toe like got caught
under the rest of my foot So then like all my
weight landed on it and then it was indeed broken.
Oh, that's so bad. That's gross. I'm sorry. Yeah,
it's been like four weeks and I thought it would
be better by now. It's not like fully better.
So I'm going to wait a bit until I can like put
on real shoes because I don't know. They said
a lot of like good slab at Grotto and I can't
really do slab right now. That sucks. I broke
my big toe. It was not fun. Did you hear that
story? How did you do that? I was in a terrible
mood one day and I was doing my like, I think
it was like weighted hangs or weighted pull -ups.
It must have been weighted hangs at home. And
I couldn't find our weight belt. And so I was
like, a chalk belt's fine. And so I put 40 pounds
on a chalk belt. Whoa. And obviously it came
undone. Just like the plastic clip. and it fell
on my toe and it broke the chip off like of like
the like very tip of my big toe but i refused
to admit it was broken and so i climbed on it
for like a week or two and i could feel it like
stabbing me but i was like it's fine oh that's
disgusting as med i went to the doctor and it
was broken and he was like he was so mad at me
he was like now it can't like You might as well
just keep climbing because it's not going to
heal right anyways. Oh. Eventually it will build
up like scar tissue. And so I was able to climb
through the whole time. It was so gross. I could
like literally feel like the shard like stabbing
me. But I could climb through the whole thing.
And I just dealt with it. Wow. How long ago was
this? This was, it was pretty like a while ago
now. Right before COVID. Yeah. Like early, early
2020. And it actually, like, healed, I guess?
Uh, yeah. It didn't, like, it took a while to
heal and then it was fine. That's good, I guess.
Sometimes it works doing that with injuries,
but I don't know how I got away with, like, going
all the way through. He was so mad the doctor
was like... I haven't been, like, putting pressure
on it because I don't like pain. A little bit
of, like, a weird relationship with pain, I feel
like. He has a super high pain tolerance. And
then just committed to it also. Yeah. I have
a little bit of a sticky brain, so when I want
to do something, it will go. Sometimes I just
don't process it right, where it's just like,
it's not that painful to me. Yeah. Okay, so before
we get into any questions that are too difficult,
the first question is going to be really easy,
but everyone wants to know, are you guys related
to Annie Sanders? We are not. I got like so many
questions for that. Do you get asked that a lot?
Yeah. I was looking at, I don't remember, I saw
comments somewhere. They're like, yeah, just
everywhere. It was like, hello, the lady. Okay,
we're setting the record straight here. So there's
actually, Annie has a sister. And so there's
four Sanders girls. Like climbing? Yeah, she
climbs. Okay, good to know. Have you guys like
climbed together before? With Annie? Yeah, just
like with team. team events and stuff at training
camps well i'll maybe have an episode with her
in a month or so so we'll see how that goes but
yeah so back to you guys um how did you guys
get into climbing we my aunt found like a climbing
gym on groupon and it's just like we should all
go because i have two older brothers that are
very active and so we just went as a family and
then we went i think my brothers were really
into it they're teenagers So we went every day
for a month straight. And that was kind of how
it started. Our oldest brother's got like, I
think we're all very like kind of obsessive brains.
But he's like especially obsessive. So whenever
he started anything as a kid, it was like 100
% in. And so it was like immediately we went
to the gym and we're like all obsessed, driving
like an hour each direction, like fully in. Oh,
wow. Yeah. with a very kind mom who was like
able to willing to facilitate that so it was
like full obsession right away and then we got
into like uh got onto the team within like a
few months like yeah maybe a month or two like
a youth team yeah yeah and did your um brothers
also compete how did they do Very good. I think
my oldest brother didn't do any of the open comps.
Like he just went through the youth circuit.
He didn't like the competition aspect of it.
It wasn't as much, yeah, much more always into
outdoors. And then next oldest but younger brother,
he competed into the open national level comps
and stuff. He's like, they're both stupidly good
off the couch climbers. Oh, off the cuff. Yeah,
got that. When people say they don't like the
comp aspect of it, what do you think that means?
What part of it? Is it the competitiveness, the
pressure? Does that drive you guys? He didn't
like the pressure very much in reference to Elvis'
brother. I think that he didn't thrive under
the pressure of it. It just wasn't fun to him.
I think he started a lot older, too. I think
he was... He was like 16 when he started. And
I think it's really hard to transition into competitions
when you're that old. And also just like my brother
naturally is like go off and do his own thing.
And like outdoor climbing is definitely like
perfect match for him. I'm just like working
projects and going with the flow a bit more.
Okay. Makes sense. You guys both keep separately
saying my brother and it's like really confusing
me. because that person was like oh i guess it's
just her brother and then oh wait but it's the
same person people actually think that we're
not related a lot like the amount of people that
are like have known us for years and it'll be
like oh my god you're sisters even though we
have the same last name both have weird names
and travel together all the time people will
be shocked but no we actually same parents same
family I guess you guys both look pretty different.
And with the hair now, too, it's really hard
to tell. We have actually similar features. But
it's everything else that makes it different.
And you also mentioned that you guys were homeschooled.
I guess it was in order to focus more on climbing.
What was that like? No, actually, so we homeschooled
our whole lives. My brothers were also homeschooled,
all four of us. And my oldest brother is actually
nine years older than her. And so there's like
quite a big gap. And so he was homeschooled like
kind of before it was like really starting to
become a thing. But we were homeschooled because
we lived in two different spots. And so we couldn't
go to normal school. And so we were splitting
time between spots. I see. So that was like the
whole Portland, SoCal split. Yeah, yeah. I don't
actually know that many homeschooled people.
Do you get that whole like weird social thing?
We, well, okay. So there are weird homeschoolers
for sure. We grew up with like going to like,
sometimes we, like when we were younger, kind
of actually really before climbing, we would
go to like homeschool park day, this homeschool
class, that homeschool class. And there are some
weird, weird homeschool people. But also I feel
like it, the people that i've met that i'm like
wow you're a really unique confident person and
you really just like seem not scared of the world
uh almost always i've like later found out like
oh you're homeschooled and so i think it could
go i either way and i think it's also really
individual of whether it works for you or not
uh i think also being in a sport while you're
is a huge difference because otherwise you're
just like incredibly isolated in your people
but yeah or oftentimes i should say not over
generalize but if you have a sport you kind of
have a little bit of that like social experience
where you're meeting a bunch of different types
of people and stuff yeah that makes sense so
you guys didn't feel like you had like a weird
transition into society yeah i think i think
yeah i think more so We were like, my mom always
told us to be like little adults in the gym.
I think that kind of caught on. We were like
almost, like especially her because of my brother
being like nine years older and not being around
like in a class with a bunch of people her age.
She, I think, was like more mature. Like she's
like a little five -year -old teenager. And I
think that part maybe was like a little bit of
transition of just not being in the same age
bubble as other people. But I think through like
the team, like being on a youth team. And climbing,
we were around a lot of people, a lot of adults
especially. And what's your age difference? Two
and a half years. Okay, so sorry. Nakia said
that you weren't into training before and that
you were just like being dragged around to the
gyms. What changed for you when deciding to actually
pursue climbing more heavily? Very complicated,
but I would say when I was little, I started
climbing when I was five. So I was mostly like...
playing with like legos like under the boulders
and stuff like it wasn't climbing super she would
just throw down the hubbies for hours i would
end the cubbies and so on but so i would like
kind of play and stuff and then as i got more
into like my teenage years and stuff i guess
also goes into a little bit of competitiveness
between yukai or like that relationship but i
started like seeing her get so many like accolades
for climbing and people being like oh, you're
amazing about this. And like a lot of attention
was put on her climbing. Now, I'm not saying
this is actually like what happened, but this
is what I perceived happening. And so it kind
of made me feel a little bit less like I wanted
to do it because I wasn't as good, obviously,
because I wasn't working at it. I didn't like
it that much at all. So I think that kind of
helped push me out a little bit. where it was
not something that I wanted to do because I didn't
love the sport and if you're constantly having
someone else be the the this is the special one
or whatever so to say that's kind of a dramatic
term but like that kind of made me not want to
pursue it and then eventually we went she went
made it to youth worlds in Moscow or it was Moscow
yeah it was in Moscow no it was France yeah anyways
Russia we went there and I saw like competitors
that were my own age and seeing them like do
well and seeing the international girls really
like have different climbing styles and stuff
kind of showed me that I guess we could both
be really good at it in both and that it would
be something special if we did it together like
it wasn't that I needed to find my own path in
life It also kind of showed me that I could also
enjoy the sport, not hate it. So that was a big
difference. And then I got her to make me a training
plan on the way home, like on the flight, and
then went straight into training. And this never
stopped, I guess. From an outside perspective,
it was kind of like, it was really interesting
for me because she's really young at the time.
You were probably like 13, right? I think I was
14. Yeah, just turned 14. and watching her like
go from like as like a little kid just like playing
in the gym to like pre -teen where she was like
kind of being forced a little bit to go to the
gym just because like that's what our family
was doing and like we do everything kind of like
as a unit and like a lot it was like hard for
me because I was like I need to be in the gym
training for like hours on end and like I just
remember her being like let's go home we were
in the gym for like six hours a day of course
and then going to this comp and just being like
seeing like i think i really wanted her to get
into training like i thought that would be the
coolest thing ever and then seeing her just like
on her own have this little like spark of being
like oh this is cool and immediately turn around
into like I think me and my mom were like oh
this is really exciting maybe she's gonna get
into it and it probably won't last very long
but at least like it'll be fun for like a few
weeks and it was like just like light switch
of being like I hate training to like I love
this I want to be doing this I'm gonna try as
hard as I can and it just like never stopped
of like super super dedicated like everything
in um And I don't think I've ever seen that sort
of switch before in a person. And it was really
cool to be able to like witness that like, yeah,
just how like a little like spark moment can
just change everything. If you also want to know
what it feels like from going to, from like a
very recreational climber who didn't really like
it into very solid training, the first week of
your life is the worst. It hurt so bad. My body
was like. It was the first time I ever got out
of bed at the ripe age of 14 and being like,
I am in actual agony. I feel like an old woman.
It was horrible. It gets better. After the first
week, it's very easy. So you were 14 when that
started? I think I just turned 14, yeah. Do you
ever look back on that time and regret all the
time that you didn't spend prior to 14? I think
in some ways I do because... I would have been
probably a little bit better than I am now. So
in that way, I do. I was also deeply unhappy
around that time. Like, I went crazy, but just
I was not happy with myself as you can be when
you're 14. And so I think that would have probably
helped that sooner. But it was some good character
building experience. And I think I needed to
figure out that I liked being. someone who worked
hard and not just kind of doing the teenage thing
so I think that was such an important lesson
that I don't really regret it I mean I guess
I kind of relate to your point of view because
well my sister is like eight years older but
I think yeah especially since she was so much
older I was always kind of okay with just being
like the one who's worse at things yeah you get
like kind of trapped in that yeah but I don't
think I ever really came out of that, so. I think
you're doing pretty good. You're doing some successful
things. Yeah, well, we're doing different things.
She never climbed. I climb. She does, like, skating
instead, so it's all fine. But, yeah, I can relate
to you there. I think the portion of, like, learning
to try hard is really, well, watching with, like,
my, what, like, 16 -year -old eyes at the time,
I saw that portion of her was like. I think every
like young teenager goes through a phase of being
like, what am I doing? Like, who do I want to
be? And maybe just like a little bit of like
a lost period. I think it was really interesting
to see that like transition of being like, it
was, it seemed a lot, but once you started training
to be like. a whole personality that's like I
always say like light switch because it's like
it was like a whole new person of being like
obviously like a child and like coasting and
kind of just like ah like doing life to being
like whoa you are like fully committed to working
hard in climbing but also just like in everything
it was like the craziest transition I've ever
seen of direction really like was um really interesting
to watch it's nice that you were able to like
find, I guess, this to bring you out of that
like funk that you were in. But with both of
you competing, I guess I'm wondering how often
nowadays that you're both competing and like
both trying to like do your best and climb super
hard. How often do you guys feel jealous or competitive
against each other during like competitions or
training? Well, we've gone through phases and
I think it's something we've had to figure out.
Like we had, Like, I think especially, well,
as kind of, this kind of leads into it. Once
she started training and working really hard,
she got better, like, so she's, like, naturally
incredibly athletic. Like, really, like, when
she works out, she gets really good really fast.
And I think seeing that, I was like, whoa, this
is scary because I've always been, like, like,
uh. better like obviously I'm like older and
so I was used to being like better than her and
also being like the one that's working hard and
so there was like this weird transition period
of being like oh she's working hard but that's
like my thing is that I work hard and like I
was like I think I've always had like a like
a lot of identity about being like a hard worker
and especially when I was younger like I was
really dead set of being like I'm the one I need
to be the one that's working harder than everyone
around me. And if someone else is working harder,
I'm going to work harder than them. And so when
she started matching me in pace of what we were
doing, it was really disconcerting for me to
be like, whoa, she's getting better and she's
working equally hard to me. How am I going to
deal with this? And I think it was really hard
for a while and we butted heads a little bit.
But I think... It transitioned quickly because
of, like, our family is, like, very explicit.
Like, if there's a problem, we're going to talk
about it. And we talk through everything. Like,
there's not a lot of, like, privacy in my family.
Like, it's, like, we're going to talk about whatever's
happening. And I think it was just, like, a lot
of conversations of just being, like, I think
also, and I think maybe sometimes people, like,
miss this is, like, our prior like at least mine
she could talk for speak herself but my priority
will always be like our relationship over any
climbing like that's just like my life values
of being like I I I care more about our relationship
than whatever uh is going to happen in climbing
and so like it might be hard and I might feel
competitive but we're going to like work it out
to in the end to like be able to train together
I don't know I want to hear yours I honestly
during that period was pretty oblivious to the
fact that there could be difficulty with that.
Like, I was quite, quite oblivious to that. However,
Nikaya is, like, if you want a sister, Nikaya
is the ideal, like, sister. She's just... In
her nature, she just, like, will not do anything
if it is harmful to me. if it makes me feel bad
like nikai when we were like 10 we would fight
and i would go out in the corner and she would
come over and be like we have to work this out
we're sisters like we can't fight like this and
then do you want to pretend to be twins and that
was it like it was just that's just how nikai
was so it wasn't ever an option i would say i
think later in like our climbing yes journey,
you could say. I started struggling, like, when
I started keeping up with her is when I started
struggling with it more on my end of being competitive
and being, like, annoyed that she was beating
me. Then I think I had a tiny bit of a rough
patch of being, like, kind of, I don't even want
to say, like, it would, it wouldn't, it would,
as soon as we walked out of the gym, it was gone.
That being in the gym and feeling that pressure
to, like, constantly like succeed or fail like
every day in the gym that kind of got with me
and then we went into team trials and nikai had
a horrible back injury prior to that she had
just started climbing and she did the best she'd
ever done in a call at team trials i should say
so she'd like development team and stuff and
it was really and it still is it's very hard
sit and watch in like a comp that you competed
in and then watching the finals and being like
well I could have been there but I'm watching
her but I also realized at that comp I was like
this is so dumb that I'm feeling competitive
against her because if I'm not having it even
if I do have it like the the reward not it but
the reward of like placing all the competition
I would so much rather Nikaya have that Because
I know how hard she works. I know she's very
talented. And obviously I love her. So I'm like,
I so want her to succeed or do better even than
me. And I've took that all the way because it.
I think, I think like generally, like I've, I've
talked to people about just like their training
partners or like other siblings, like the competitive
aspect. And I feel like there's like, it's always
going to be there because of if you're ever like.
Like we train like every session together. And
so like if you're ever compared to someone that
consistently, even if it's like yourself comparing
yourself, you're going to feel competitive. I
think that's an incredibly positive thing because
you're like that friction is like like I know
I try harder when I'm like when she's beating
me. And it's just getting away from the the like
personal value or like negative competitiveness.
That comes with it. And I feel like Soraya has
proven to me that she's really strong and she
works really hard and she deserves it. And so
like when you can get past that and be like,
oh no, she can beat me and that's fine. I think
it becomes way better because like instead of
being like one -on -one rivalry, it's like if
she beats me, like great. Like obviously I want
to win every competition. But if I want anyone
to win, I want her to win. I think that makes
everything way easier. I think also, like, other
people, when they talk to you, they, like, want
there to be this, like, kind of nasty rivalry,
like, in the relationship. Like, the things that
people will say to you, like, after Nakia's done
really good in a comp and I've done really terribly.
They're like, oh, are you just so mad that she
beat you? Whoa. You'll say like, oh, I could
go on and on and on about like the things that
people just walk over. You're like, I don't even
know who you are. And you just were like, yeah,
you must be devastated that your sister beat
you. She's like, okay. So I think that is like
kind of sparks that negative competition. But
as soon as you realize that, oh, wait, this doesn't
even have to be. something we think about like
this isn't we don't need this in our relationship
this isn't like a valid feeling then it's kind
of easy to just toss that away and so I guess
you clearly don't have that feeling of like I'm
just the worst one anymore no no also it helps
in training is that she beats me all the time
oh no I think that went away as soon as I found
an identity outside of being the youngest that
is like yapping at everyone's tails trying to
keep up. I think that is a foreplay. When you
find an identity outside of that, of being like,
oh, I'm not good. I'm a hard worker. And that's
the identity, then that kind of goes away. Also,
when you're not 14, that tends to help. I think
also, like, being two people, like, every competition
you go to, there's going to be, like, 50 people.
And, like, we're just two people there. And,
like... I think that is like a really important
to remember instead of being like, like even
just with competitiveness with people, like other
people, like not with us. Like I find it like
sometimes people will get like hyper fixated
on like, oh, I need to beat that one person or
that. I can't believe that person beat me. And
it's like, well, we're just 50 people in a competition.
However, it ranks, it ranks. I think that's like
at least helpful to me to be like, not like,
I think it gets so tied up in like worth. Like,
yeah. Who's the better one or who's this? People
ask that all the time, which is hilarious to
me. Oh, yeah. So weird. Of, like, who's the better?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, especially, like, people,
like, you, like, meet new people and be like,
oh, we climb. And they'll be like, oh, like,
who's better? We've been friends for, like, we've
known for years that are great people. And they'll,
like, try to compliment me and be like, well,
you're so much better than Nekaya. I'm like.
I don't want that. No, it's just weird. What
is your answer when they ask? Well, she's good
at this, I'm good at that. Probably not smooth.
Okay, we'll get into like strengths and weaknesses
in a bit. Yeah, so getting into, I guess, like
elite competition, World Cup circuit, stuff like
that. I guess, first of all, you mentioned that
at that national team trials where you got into
the national development team can you just kind
of explain how getting onto the U .S. team works
and how selection works and like what the national
development team is versus like the actual national
team yeah it's all kind of confusing so the selection
process it's always kind of changes a bit but
for the past few years it's been you could be
pre -selected by being on in the top 10 of the
world ranking from the World Cups. And so the
past few years, that's been Brooke, Natalia,
and Annie. And then that has left around three
spots for... We count five people into team.
Yeah, five people into team. And so that's three
spots of the team go to them normally. And so
there's two spots to qualify for US team. And
those are selected through, I think it's 40 %
nationals or national championships and 60 %
team trials. And those points get combined into
a ranking of everyone. And so to make national
team your top five and to make development team
your top like, I think it's 14 including. Yeah,
14 or something like this. And yeah, so that's
like the qualifying series. And it's, I think
the process of like getting into that was really
hard for me. Like it took me a lot of years to
kind of break through. Hopefully I've broken
through now. I can say that'd be awesome. You
don't know for sure yet? No, I have to qualify
again for World Cup. Yeah. We'll see what happens.
Good luck there. Yeah. But I think that's also
like a part of like, the last few years of like
our like um competitive dynamic has been interesting
because of like both being kind of on the cusp
of being on development team and trying to figure
it out and um like this last year or two like
I was kind of just being in and then uh sometimes
and then her just being out like one spot out
I think that's been like um something to like
we've had conversations about and so even though
you um like competed all season this year unless
you're in the top 10 of the world ranking you
have to like re -qualify for the team yeah you
get like bonus points if you're in the top 40
of the continue like the world ranking um but
you still have to like go back and qualify which
that could change depending on like how selection
they decide to select this next year but um For
now, that's, yeah, like the past few years, that's
how it's been. Good to know. Thanks for the explanation.
And then real quick, just reflecting on your
time in Curitiba, Brazil, of course. Great comp
there. Why do you think that? comp went specifically
so well for you please excuse this brief intermission
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to the show. Why do you think that comp went
specifically so well for you? Whoa, okay. Interesting.
I haven't talked about that one. I think... Well,
so, I feel like the whole circuit has been like...
really a lot of learning for me and specifically
like i went into china right before world cup
brazil and um i was like feeling super i didn't
feel like i belonged there like i had all of
this like uh like chatter in my head of being
like oh it's not like i'm bringing down the level
of the world cups i'm i i'm not supposed to be
here not ready i'm like whatever the thoughts
were And I was ended up being one spot out of
semis, which kind of just like opened my mind
up to being like, whoa, I can I'm supposed to
be here. I'm good enough. And also just like,
what does it mean to be supposed to be somewhere?
But I think that really like opened my mind up
to like the possibility of being like I could
do well. And I had a like a really long conversation
with my coach after. China being like what what
how like I was so scared of like admitting like
what I wanted kind of being like what is my potential
to do like like the idea of ever like say even
in the conversation I think I was like so scared
to say like I want to make a final because it's
like that's sounds so presumptuous or like like
uh yeah like yeah yeah like Yeah, like I think
that I'm capable of that. And so I think that
was like all those kind of thoughts and conversations
like was really helpful to me, like opening my
mind up to being like, it's a possibility to
make a semis or make a final. And going into
Brazil, like I think that freaked me out a bit.
But it was also like just like opening up those
like thoughts, I think. And then. I had, like,
the most terrible warm -up from... Actually,
no, it wasn't semis. It was... Qualifiers had
a fine warm -up. I made semis. I was, like, so
excited. It was, like, my first ever semis. I
cried. I was so excited. And then I had a terrible
warm -up in semis where I was, like... I, like,
injured my forearm a little bit. Like, nothing,
like, real, but just, like, it was super painful.
The night before, my coach had texted me, like,
saying, like, oh, like... we were talking about
finals or something and being like i was just
like leave the possibility open for yourself
of making finals and i think it was like just
like the best reminder of being like okay like
i need to like have the belief even if i don't
think i am going to like i need to believe i
can um and i think it was like the best like
thought to like lead into uh semis of being like
I can do this. I don't need to do this. I, maybe
I won't happen now, but it's a possibility. Um,
and then I think after like, I, I really like
slabs and the first climb was a slab. Uh, and,
um, I felt like I, that's like my little bubble
is like, I feel like I could be confident on
slabs. Um, and then after like doing this lab,
I was like, okay, I could like let go of everything
and like, yeah, just climb. and yeah making finals
obviously was like insane yeah a while but uh
yeah i think that's all like a very roundabout
way of saying like i think the whole experience
was like crazy to have that like moment in china
thing like i could do something like i'm really
far away from it but like maybe in the long term
like i could be i could be good at this um And
then have it, like, so kind of, like, immediately,
like, validated or affirmed was really, like,
a cool, obviously cool experience. But, like,
yeah, meaningful. Yeah, I'm kind of surprised.
Because usually when people, like, make a finals
for their first time, a lot of the things I hear
is just, like, they, like, something bad happened.
And then they, like, go of all expectations.
And they, like. just weren't thinking about it
at all but you still had it in mind when you
were in semis maybe not in mind like I don't
think I was well I think if I'm being like super
honest I think after doing this lab I was like
like I I my personality is like I like to like
oh like uh like daydream of being like oh like
uh try to predict what's happening in the future
like it can be a problem but like I like to like
plan ahead of like, oh, what is that going to
be like? What is this going to be like? I think
I had moments of being like, oh, that would be
so cool. No part of me believed it was going
to like happen really. Like I didn't think it
was reality, but more just being like letting
myself imagine making a final. Like what would
that be like? Because I wasn't letting myself
think that at all before. Like at all at all.
And I think I definitely during like the semis
was not like. oh, I need to do this climb to
make a final. I was like, I didn't think that
was going to happen. And even like after climbing,
I was like watching the results. I was like shocked
at the results to not think I was going to place
like that. Then, yeah, even like I was like really
on the bubble for a while and I was like, yeah,
I was not expecting it to happen. So, yeah, definitely
like no expectation of making a final or not
even like. like I think it was more more just
like the opening of that as a possibility in
the future at some point not maybe it's more
just not telling myself I couldn't do it okay
I get that and then how did finals feel oh my
god like dream uh I love being in front of crowds
like I was like I really really like being in
front of crowd and that was like the most fun
crowd and just like a whole I'm like I've been
obsessed with the world cups like since I was
like knew what a world cup was like like right
around like my first youth worlds I was like
oh my god world cups I never knew about this
and just like have obsessed on them and so being
in a final was just like yeah amazing like the
all the best possible in the kind of scenario
you could ever imagine a crowd and fun climbs
and swinging around and like zero expectations
it was pretty amazing Okay, so now going a bit
into your strengths and weaknesses. I remember
during that finals live stream, I think either
the co -commentator or maybe Matt said that one
of your weaknesses is strength, I guess, if that
makes any sense. So yeah, what does that mean
to you? And then Sovarae, we'll get into your
strengths and weaknesses as well. I think Brazil
probably was just second. a great example of
like I my strength is definitely like slabs and
just like general technical stuff like I feel
like I'm pretty decent on like technical coordination
sometimes I struggle with like power like upper
body power but mostly just like hard climbing
it's really hard for me like just like pulling
like I think after the whole world cup circuit
it was like it's been years of like having this
kind of weakest being like okay this is I need
to work on at every comp but especially through
the world cup circuit I was like okay every comp
was like I could do all the sloths I could do
all the like technical stuff I just need to be
able to pull so I've been working on that she
actually was mid finals at and my brother was
sent into our family group chat like little gifs
of, like, weak little emoji and then a strong
emoji and being like, this is Nikaya, like, this
is what's going to happen. Like, she says, get
on the kilter board. And that was always what
he said. Good job. Nothing. It's just, she needs
to get on the kilter board. And surprise, she's
been doing a lot of board climbing. Do you feel
like you've gotten stronger since then? Yeah,
I try to. No, I feel like I've definitely gained
a lot this year physically. It's just slow. I
think strength for me is just like, I have to
put the work in and it will slowly keep going.
Also, I think both of us, because we've always
just trained a ton of volume and skills, it's
been an interesting transition. She's supernaturally
strong, but for me, transitioning into more intense
strength training has been like... a fun challenge
of doing something differently and training a
bit. And what about you? I actually don't know
what my strengths are. I can hang. Oh, my God.
Sovarae has the strongest fingers ever. Like,
just can pull anything. Like, if you get her,
like, yeah, she can bangle. I've already made
a little bit of dangling. I have. a really hard
time with the mental aspect so far I would say
obviously I've got weaknesses in climbing still
like I think I need a lot of power and stuff
um but my mental is definitely a massive weakness
for me and I think it's a common thing if you
watch me climb I've had many people come over
in the crowd and be like, yeah, you're really
good. You're just mentally just bad. How could
they tell? Like, what is the sign? It's pretty
obvious when you watch me climb, to be entirely
honest. Like certain scenarios where I really
melt. Yeah, I just like shake. And yeah, I have.
many photos of me looking like I'm about to start
sobbing in the middle of the round and I am because
I'm just mentally melting. I think from an outside
perspective like I went through a similar phase
when I was like probably around her age of like
I think like her climbing level is so high but
she's like still gaining experience and like
figuring out her brain like she's like 19 just
turned 19. And I think that there's, like, this
little, like, period of, like, training. And
I feel like I've seen that in a lot of different
people, and I experienced it, where it's just
learning how to deal with your brain and gaining
comp experience to be able to, like, figure it
out and gain those skills. Have you ever, like,
tried anything to fix the mental game or, like,
has anything worked for you or not worked for
you? I've tried a lot. I'm definitely, I've struggled.
The mental is such a hard thing to work on, at
least for me. It's been, like, such a confusing
and, like, overwhelming thing to try to figure
out how to learn how to, like, get over. Like,
I feel like for strength, this is very clear.
You go lift weights or you go kilter fort and
that's about it. But for the mental, what really
is causing me to freak out and melt? Oh, I don't
know. It could be one of eight things. And so
I've read a bunch of books. been doing my little
meditating and stuff I guess like I've been trying
to you've been set up a lot too like I think
sometimes like when you're in the thick of it
it's hard to see like the progress but like it
feels like you're never gonna get better like
actually it feels like not to be dramatic but
yeah it feels horrible and like honestly horrible
um I feel like I've seen the little the steps
of like like um more like gaining tools to deal
with different like pressures and like being
able to be under pressure and perform um and
also just like like learning what you think about
your climbing and how do you want to be a climber
how do you want to perform like what do you want
to be like in front of a crowd like i feel like
i've seen those things like really consistently
progress over the last few years and you do a
lot of work of like um like the in the session
work yeah i think that's the biggest of where
it comes and i'm not allowed to do this That's
not a behavior I'm allowed to do. I'm not allowed
to be that. I'm banned from crying in the gym.
Okay. That's not true. I ban myself. You're a
big, like, gym crier? Well, yeah. Oh, I used
to. We all are. Okay. But it's hard not to. When
you're spending, first off, when you're spending
so much time in the gym, it's hard to realize
that this is not your living room. Like, you
can't go. like way in the middle of space so
you honestly you think it's funny but you totally
forget these things like you'll just see my mom
will just like she spends so much time in the
gym she forgets too so she'll be laying in the
middle of the pads and you're like mom like get
up that is I think helps um to set some standards
I think figuring out like just how I can be comfortable
under pressure and like in front of people and
on display is something that i think i've been
working on and i think is helping oh like in
front of a camera i hate being in front of a
camera oftentimes like i don't i don't like that
feeling like having pressure on me i guess so
i think trying to develop that like being okay
with that i think has helped also having an image
of how like positive mental space can feel like
are in such a space of a space or like a run
of so many bad mental calms you honestly just
forget that that's a like a possibility where
like i forgot like i was like oh no i just feel
like i'm gonna cry through climbing like driving
around that is just how i am and then you just
taste that back and you can kind of understand
like okay i don't need to feel like My entire
life is going to end as soon as I step on this
fence. Yeah. Honestly, it seems so dramatic and,
like, over -talked. But when you're in it, it
feels so like your life is about to end as soon
as you step on this fence. So, like, crowd, not
good for you. The funny bit is I used to, like,
way outperform myself in comps. And I loved being
in front of the crowd. And I still do. Like,
I think I'm not super, like, stage fright or
anything. But seeing that, like, pressure, it
just made me melt for a really long time and
still does. I don't think it makes you melt.
You're just figuring it out until you're in the
process. Okay. So, Nikaya, you said that you're
majoring in sports psychology. I guess, based
on what you've seen, like, what is your advice
to her? I feel like most of my advice comes from
my experience, not really. my psychology major
just because of being like a little bit older
I feel like I've um I feel like I could give
like advice in those ways I think like we talk
about it all the time um I think my my biggest
thing is like when you're in the thick of it
like it's so hard to see a way out or like what
it could be like or how all of this is like actually
helping you and you're like learning and gaining
and building and you can't because it's so slow
and it's so like messy it's really hard to see
that it's there there's upward movement to all
of this it can just feel like a like a mess um
and so i guess like my biggest advice would be
just like be kind to yourself it's gonna be like
uh hard but that that the other side of that
is like so important Not for, like, for climbing,
obviously. Like, figuring it out is, like, great.
And I think that once she settles, like, her
brain some, like, her climbing ability is going
to be, like, insane. But I think more so just
for, like, life, knowledge of yourself, knowledge
of how to live life. It will be, like, life lessons
you can't get anywhere else. Just, like, having
to learn how to, like, master your own brain
in such a weird bubble of competition. That you're
never going to get, you probably won't get other
places, but it's just so rare. Like I think,
yeah. Outside of like sports and competition,
it is so rare to get such a clear like image
of failure. In your everyday life, you don't
have such a cute failure in like, unless you
get fired from your job or something like that.
Like the instances of failure are more like black
and white. And so I think those are really good
lessons that come with climbing is being able
to have such a clear, you either succeeded and
you won the comp or you failed and you didn't.
And that is a very acute moment to deal with
or something. That's a good way to put it. Okay,
so then thinking more about the positive side
of climbing and World Cups, you guys travel a
lot together to the World Cups. What has been
your favorite place to travel to? Definitely
Bern. Oh, my God. I really loved that city. I
went in the river every day. Maybe, yeah, definitely
my favorite place ever. It was so cool. I'm like
a water person, but I loved it. It was so expensive,
but I loved, loved the river. I think that's
definitely the coolest. I really like China.
It was really fun. I think it's so different
from what we're used to. such a unique travel
experience that I probably wouldn't have had
was it climbing so it's definitely one of my
top places I think yeah you did say that while
you were there and I was surprised to hear it
then and I guess every time I hear it I'm still
surprised to hear it now um I know I remember
um discussing with you about like nutrition abroad
and like eating um because you guys have some
dietary restrictions um what does that look like
for you when you when you're traveling Well,
she's vegetarian, so it mostly is just bread
when I'm short of the country. I'm long -legged.
Oh, that's difficult. Yeah, I just love bread.
I think it's nice to just end up eating a lot
of bread. And then I'm vegetarian and gluten
-free, and I try to eat dairy. And so it kind
of gets very difficult traveling in Asia because,
like, soy sauce has gluten. every sauce has been
and so uh that part was definitely a challenge
of trying to figure out how to travel and like
compete um but I've like figured out like if
I just pack a suitcase with a lot of tofu and
like bring most of my food with me that works
really well especially in Asia um and then Europe
is was pretty easy like I could just go to grocery
stores the whole time but no yeah that was a
little interesting trying to figure out how to
like I was so sick of tofu by the end. Oh, I
bet. Yeah. Can you share, like, your best tofu
recipes? Okay. I'm not the person for that, though,
because I eat, like, the most disgusting food.
Oh, it's not good. I don't. I'm not, like, a
foodie type person. And so I just eat, like,
for training. Like, when I'm, like, I don't know.
I eat tofu straight and, like, and then chips
straight. It's so gross. I was weird. Yeah. i'm
not not a great example for that you've like
never tried anything that was like oh i could
eat this all the time and it's like delicious
um she sometimes mixes like pudding mix package
oh that's pretty good yeah soaking tofu with
uh like packaged pudding mix i actually did try
making that once after you told me um it didn't
turn out very good so can you tell me how to
make it again wait which did you what type of
soap and glue did you use there was only one
type at the grocery store so whichever one that
was yeah and then I used like uh the jello pudding
mix but the one I did use I think it was like
sugar -free or like fat -free so I don't know
if that's what was disgusting yeah you nothing
sugar -free okay you gotta just use yeah just
basic chocolate It's really good. Or the lemon
one's pretty good. The chocolate's more normal.
I think also this is something like we grew up
out of China. And so this was like weird food
combo. Like we grew up on tofu. So I think I've
given it to people like, this is the best thing
ever. You have to try it. They're like, yeah,
that's not good. But I love it. Well, I think
it brings a new taste. I will try it again. Is
it just like one packet of the Jell -O mix, one
packet of the silken tofu, and then you just
like. I literally just do it to taste. You just
take a fork and mix the tofu. Blend it. It's
way better. If you're not lazy, just throw it
in a blender and it's nice and smooth and it's
good. Add a little bit of milk. You shouldn't
do any of this. Just put it in a bowl and mix
it. I will try it. It's good protein, though.
It's the easiest thing ever. And it tastes good.
If I find other protein recipes, I'll send it
over. Now, I guess let's get into some like maybe
hot takes you guys have about climbing. I know
you mentioned you think that losing is more important
than winning. Yes. I'm going to offer conversations.
I'm going to come off so negative. I think, yeah,
so I think losing is definitely, especially for
like younger athletes. is way more and just in
general is way more important than winning um
because like my kind of like uh my values in
climbing are like like for me i have like rations
why i'm doing everything and so it's like okay
like why am i climbing like it's not for like
i really enjoy it but like it's taking up a lot
of my life like why why am i doing it like um
like because there is sacrifice of like not going
to life school or like doing those things And
for me, it's like all about like making myself
a better person and learning about myself, learning
tools for life. And I think in the past, I've
been like really scared of losing and like or
just disappointed in general because I'm like
I'm putting so much into this. Like I need results
or like it needs to be fun to be worth it kind
of. And fun being like fun in the way of being
like, yeah. it won kind of um and I think the
more I've like been competing I've realized that
like every time I've had those like super devastating
competitions or losses I have like so much more
learning that's come out of those about myself
about my climbing like just making myself a better
climber but also making myself like uh like a
better human um and I think I see sometimes like
um parents or like coaches or even like athletes
being so scared of their like um whether like
if it's like a parent their kid losing and being
like oh we went to this comp and like it just
wasn't worth it like we shouldn't have gone like
they lost it they weren't having fun which i
think is so important to have fun like there's
no reason to be doing this other than like like
if you don't enjoy it don't do it um But I think
like sometimes people miss the like factor of
like that those hard moments are like where you
grow. And like that's the whole point of everything
is like learning in those moments how to turn
around and have those also the super fun moments.
Do you have any thoughts on that? Do you disagree?
Agree? No, I very much agree with that. I very
much agree with that. I think there's especially
like if you go to youth nationals, you hear so
much like. Oh, I'm so devastated my kid didn't
make it to, like, semifinals and stuff. And I
think particularly looking at this from, like,
a youth athlete perspective, that is such a harmful
way to think about it. Like, when you, like,
lose, it's kind of more rewarding, I would say,
in some really nasty way. It's not fun, obviously.
Most of the time, it's not very fun. Well, you
know, just from a fun perspective, if you win
all the time, it stops being that fun. You just
feel cool. You start feeling expectations to,
like, you have to keep winning. Yeah, or even
just, like, it's not novel then. If you didn't
work for it, it's not that important. I agree
with that. Did you manage to think of another
hot take in between the time? I did. This might
be a controversial hot take. I think most people
who say that they hate comp climbing haven't
been shown how to like comp climbing. Because
I've met many people who have been like, oh,
well, I just don't like comp climbing. Like,
it's just style. Yeah, comp style climbing, sorry.
And then have like climbed with them and like
done jumps with them or done more like compy
style climbs. And then they've walked away really
enjoying it. So I think that they need to be
shown because it's kind of, if you don't know
the new non -snow movement, it is like quite
intimidating. and it doesn't make sense and so
you're just like why would I do this like weird
jump that just doesn't make sense or even just
like the power climbs that are called climbs
I think if people are shown what it is and shown
how they can learn the moves I think this is
they can learn to like it quite easily now I
will say my brother is yeah I was gonna say literally
hates like he refuses to jump like we're going
to jump like the gym with him like we're caught
each other's jump like it's so much fun he's
like nah I don't con climb nah bro and he like
legitimately hates it so I think that there's
some people that just legitimately hate it but
I think most of the time people just need to
be shown how to enjoy it and that's just about
like the style of movement not like the the all
the other like aspects of like competitiveness
that come with it Poorly phrased, yeah. Just
the style of climbing. Probably pertains also
to, like, I think some people just aren't meant
for competitive environments. But I think there's
a lot of people that don't have the tools to
enjoy being in a competitive environment. Yeah,
for sure. Not being able to, like, cope with
the pressure and stuff is, like, makes it so
it's not enjoyable. It was actually really interesting.
I did a local comp for fun. a few years back
and two guys made into finals who had never like
I think it was their first comp before and they
won they're both super super nervous like we're
not having a time and then the comp actually
started one started having a really good time
and was like super enjoying it and was just like
kind of having fun being in front of the crowd
and then the other one was just melting like
could not it was just not having a good like
a good time at all and so I think that kind of
demonstrates that some people get thrown into
the environment really enjoy it and other people
just do not at all well but then that would kind
of mean that you don't actually don't enjoy it
since you're usually the one melting i will say
from like more yeah a different perspective so
right like uh like well while she's like struggles
with i think the pressure aspects and uh even
can like sometimes be like appear shy and like
when she's climbing she is like so good under
pressure and i think it's like fueled by competitiveness
for like for sure i love being competitive i
like uh so much that sort of like tension of
being like someone's better than me or i'm better
than them or let's see who's better on this climb
or just in general in life of being like card
games really enjoys that i i would say that it's
not i to change what i said previously i would
say that it's not that i dislike that i think
sometimes it is a very fine like line between
the enjoyment of it and not enjoyment of it or
being even able to like cope with it and sometimes
like this previous like stint of being struggling
in comps was when i wasn't able to enjoy it or
to be okay under that in that feeling that feeling
turned really nasty and uncomfortable versus
when sometimes it feels exciting and like yeah
engaging whatever that makes sense no yeah it
makes sense yeah okay well thank you for sharing
your hot tapes So last question I have and then
we'll have some like audience submitted questions.
I mean, it sounds like you guys spend a lot of
time in the gym climbing. Do you guys have time
for like other stuff or like outside hobbies
outside of climbing? Well, I do school. That
is a lot. No, I think it is hard because like
in one more training, most of the time we're
like six to eight hours in the gym a day. It's
like tough. But I really like to do art. I like
to paint and draw. And I recently started swimming.
I like this before training. But I love it. Oh,
my God. I like to do a lot of swimming. I've
never been able to get into running. I've also
trained to run. But it hurts so bad to run. It
hurts. And now every day I can get away with
it with training. I'm like, let's go swimming.
I can't deal with the swimming. I just went swimming
yesterday. Well, first of all, I can't really
swim. So that doesn't help. She can swim, but
she's like a little so -so and she doesn't...
It's not as fun if you're like figuring out how
to swim. Yeah. It was exhausting and bad and
embarrassing. I like didn't want the lifeguard
to look at me, even though the lifeguard should
probably be looking at me because I might die.
I have like zero, like my embarrassment. Oh,
it's... like threshold is really high i don't
think about that's good so i'm i yeah i can make
a fool of myself the first time we went swimming
she took me swimming and went directly in front
of the lifeguard which is like a 15 year old
little boy he was just sitting there me the entire
time and i'm like flail it was the worst experience
i relate to that no you just gotta like think
about all the people that go and and go and don't
know how to swim That's me? Yeah, but there's
so many of you then. Like, do you even care?
Yeah, I know, I know. It's so cool when you get
a little rhythm. Like, your brain turns off and
you're just like, oh. Like, that's like, yeah,
it's fun. It's nice. I mean, I can't turn my
brain off. Like, even when, like, floating on
my back, I have to think really hard about, like,
breathing. Or else I'll, like, sink. So, for
me, like, my brain doesn't turn off a lot. It's,
like, very loud. And so this is like the first
time where I've been like, oh, I could like swim
and just focus on like the rhythm of ice swimming.
And just I'm able to have quiet a little. I think
that makes sense if you know how to swim. Yeah.
Like otherwise, it's just like I'm about to drown
all the time. It's not quiet. It's just panic.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Screaming in there. Yeah.
So Rae, what about you? I do. Yeah, I do school
too. I like baking and I like reading. so that's
my like to become allowed to share your Harry
Potter oh yeah she's like obsessed with Harry
Potter huh like obsessed like she listens to
it on a loop oh my gosh whole series like every
time she showers like like obsessed and like
in comps she listens to Harry Potter like she's
like mega fan and so that takes a long time oh
my god you should show her here She just made
a Lego. Okay, I did recently discover Legos.
It's so much fun. Yeah, show it. She's been so
proud of this. She made a little Lego Harry Potter
thing. Interesting. So it's like instead of music,
it's just Harry Potter. Yeah, this was part of
figuring out her mental tools. This is something
she came up with because she finds it calming.
She listens to Harry Potter. It's very relaxing.
Whoa. Oh, okay. Sorry, I've never watched Harry
Potter, so I don't know what that is. You don't
watch them. The movies are terrible. But the
books are so good. I haven't read or watched.
I did try to read it, so I stopped watching the
movies past the second because they were too
scary for me. And then I tried to read the books
instead. But then the third... like something
in like the fourth book was also too scary for
me like i had recurring nightmares from reading
it so then i i was like i have to stop i i just
like can't to read it until i was like 13 or
something because of my mom was like you're gonna
get scared it is very scary i'm still too scared
but they're so good it's worth like it's yeah
the plot It's past. People don't even like Harry
Potter anymore, so it's okay. It's like beyond.
I thought I wouldn't have to talk to people about
it anymore after a certain year. I don't know.
What's the new fantasy? That's old, too. No,
that's old, too. You guys are old souls. He's,
like, obsessed with vintage, like, old, like,
children's, like, fairy tales. And she, like,
collects the books. Like, old, like, vintage
books. I enjoy reading them. No, I think, I mean,
at a certain point, like, vintage becomes, like,
new again. But with, like, Hunger Games and Harry
Potter, it's kind of, like, the cringe millennial
thing now, I think. Not that it's cringe. I just,
I really didn't think that anyone was going to
talk about it. You didn't expect that coming
up today. But okay, what is the Lego set? It's
like a plant from the movie. Oh, okay. Yeah,
it's really not that cool. I mean, it's cute.
It's called a mandrake. And they scream and they
like make you pass out if you scream or something
like that. Oh, maybe I did get to that part.
They are like kind of cute, right? Yeah. Well,
no, they're like a little there. They're little
like ugly men. The babies. Yeah, that's cute.
And they grow up. They get to be teenagers. Okay.
This is important stuff. Yeah. The whole Harry
Potter thing. Okay, well, I think it is interesting
that you listen to the books, like, during competitions.
I mean, I know, like, Mac Room sometimes goes
around and, like, asks people what they're listening
to. So it would be very interesting if you got
asked that. It's also during sessions. quite
often yeah i think most people do music so that's
that's good to know okay so let's get into some
of the audience submitted question um the first
one is from discord uh name is climber rph They're
curious about shoes, not so much the brand, but
how you wear them for comps. So do you wear the
same pair for training and comps or do you have
like a dedicated comp pair? And like how broken
in do they need to be before you want to wear
them in a comp and how worn is too worn? My shoes,
I typically just wear, I start just a new pair
right before I start a comp and then just wear
them out like in training sessions. But I have
found exactly five sessions is the time that
my shoes are perfect for comps. Because they're
just, you know, the Scarpa, the Dragos. So they
get super soft. And so they need to be, like,
just stiff enough. We do the same thing of, like,
about a week before a comp, I'll break in, like,
just, like, a few sessions. New shoes, like,
10 days before. And it kind of becomes a problem.
Like I realized during the full World Cup circuit,
I had to keep breaking in shoes. Oh, wow. You
did a new one for every World Cup? I think, well,
they were close enough together, most of them,
that I think I like, I didn't need a new pair
every time. But it was enough to where like I
now have like my bag is just like full of shoes
that I just have to like, that are like. a week
worn in should i gonna keep working through to
get through them but i also like i wear them
till like they start um like until they get a
little hole or they start collapsing um and then
i i get to like get rid of them earlier because
my mom has the same size sheet as me and so i
give them to her and says she'll wear them fully
too so i get to have my shoes all the time and
she's shocked because she cheated yeah Couldn't
you just, like, wear through one pair and then
keep that, like, slightly worn pair for comps
only? Yeah, but I have, like, mental attachment
to my shoes. And so I'm, like, I need them to
be, like, the shoes that I climbed in the session
before. And, like, I got used to them. So, like,
have sweaty feet. So I need them. I'm used to
climbing in, like, kind of wet shoes. And so
once you, like, don't wear shoes for, like, a
few days they get like hard yeah that's true
and so i have to be in the same shoes because
they have to have the right amount of moisture
i probably also like tend to oxidize slightly
yeah and so like ruins your your trust with your
shoes yeah that is true it's like the rubber
gets worse you gotta like get rid of that first
layer or something okay um next one from instagram
ellie joy climbs uh what is your favorite style
of climb i love like swinging climbs i think
that's so fun Well, I thought you were going
to say slab, so it was actually. Well, that's
like the other thing is I think I love slab because
of like it's so like mental. Like I can think
about like things and I feel like I really enjoy
the thinking part of slab and also just like
the movement. But I like, you know, I just love
to swing. I used to, me and my little friend
went around a youth team when I was like eight
years old. like exclusively the entire session
would only dyno for like months straight and
swing around. Like I really like coordination.
I feel like I'm really scared on jumps, but any
dynamic movement I get like really scared on.
So this is going to make no sense. But like jumping
on dual techs, I really cheat. Like I think it's
fun. I'd be like dual techs. I think it's just
like, or no techs. I think it's really. a fun
style of climbing she's good at it is that i'm
sitting absolutely like petrified of it so yeah
it's a weird combo she's not being yeah she's
figured out the technique of the no text hold
it's like i don't get it i don't understand it
yet what's the secret is it for like feet or
hands or both well um i think standing on things
quickly not like too violently but just putting
your weight on the holds like very precisely
and quick helps a lot there's like so many different
things that help that we can really get into
but we would be here for like an hour of just
breaking it down like okay so then real quick
that's the that's a foot thing what about like
hands hands you have to there's different types
of like notex and so like the the finish that
they use some holds are better text yeah there's
there's better no text that sticks better there's
others in texas are way slipperier or slipperier
um so you have to like kind of know the types
of dual text and know how sticky you want your
hands to be like how sweaty you want your hands
to be so i'll have like a spray bottle that i
like write my hands down sometimes but some holds
or some types are better if your hands are like
slightly chalky so you have to like figure out
as what the hold demands, essentially. I would
need to see more no -tex holds. I haven't really
seen any no -tex holds at the gyms here. Yeah,
they're slower to come into the gyms than I thought
they would be. I end up climbing them because
of the training center we climb at in California
and also the Salt Lake Training Center. They
have no -tex holds, so we climb quite a bit.
Yeah, they're interesting. Develop a relationship
with them. Okay, next one from Omar H5. Do you
have outdoor rock projects? I haven't talked
about outside at all. So honestly, I haven't
spent that much time climbing outside. And I
want to after I'm done comp climbing, because
I really want to be able to travel and fully
dedicate training to it. But I haven't had...
Yeah, like I honestly have very little experience
coming outside, so I don't have any projects.
Same for you. Yeah, I have never really been
outside. I've been outside like a few times.
I think it'd be something I'd be good at. I could
complement my style, but I don't really have
a desire to go outside at all. So currently,
no. That's fine. This is like the new generation
of non -outside climbers. Okay, I don't know
if it's not true. I want to. After I'm done competing,
I want to be able, I like doing things with full
focus. I don't like happening things. And so
when I'm done comp climbing, I'm going to like,
I want to travel and like, yeah, I think development
is going to be super cool too. So neither of
you have like gray chased outside at all? No.
Actually, recently we went out. outside like
a few months ago and it was like the first time
in like two years and we both did our first 10
within like a few tries and i was like yeah we
could climb because i was curious how much how
much we could climb outside yeah yeah where was
it joshua tree it was good ego stroke or like
we don't suck okay that's all i mean no i totally
get that OK, good to know. Next one from Bryce
Wayne. What effect does fan interaction have
on your morale? So that's kind of new to me because
of like I think I just haven't been like at that
level of like known as a climber. And after Brazil,
I had a lot more attention, which was really
cool. And like everyone was so nice. And it was
an insane life experience. But definitely, like,
specifically for the Salt Lake World Cup, it
was, like, a really hard mental thing for me.
Because I think I got stuck in this, like, headspace
of being, like, I need to, like, or people are
going to expect me to do something that I can't
do. Or they're going to think I'm this person
and maybe I'm not. Just there was a lot more
chatter in my brain of being like, what do people
expect from me or what are people thinking about
me that I just hadn't dealt with in a lot of
years because of like, I think early teen years
I had like struggled with that because of just
like trying to figure myself out and like what
that felt like in competition. And then like
I said, I'm like low embarrassment threshold.
Like I don't really think about that a ton. And
so it was like the first time in a while where
it was like really strong. And I had to, like,
I had a lot of, like, really good conversations
over that, like, period of being, like, okay,
what do I care about in my climbing? And, like,
also, what do I want to, like, show to other
people? And I think at the end of the day, I
was, like, okay, I just think authentic, whatever
is happening is going to come off best and, like,
yeah, also work best for me. But it was definitely,
like, a weird thing that I'd never dealt with
before. oh, people are looking or they feel like
they're looking. I don't even know if they are
or they feel like they're looking. What is that?
Yeah, what does that mean for me? I would say
I haven't had to deal with this really because
I haven't had any interactions yet. So I think
I'm at a different spot in my career. Most people,
especially with Instagram, a few people with
Instagram come over and recognize me or whatever
in the gym, which was really cool. It's a really
fun experience. It's fun to meet people. I would
say I think it kind of bursts your bubble in
a little bit in a way. Like that, like you have
a sense of like anonymity or in the gym or whatever,
like you're just kind of doing your thing. And
like having people come over makes you kind of
like realize you're like, oh, people are like
me being stupid in the corner. So I think that
makes it a little bit generally just being like
in certain areas, being like a strong female
climber. you just will get more attention in
the gym. And I think, like, I've seen you over
the last few years, like, figure out, like, oh,
okay, how does that feel? Like, what does that
look like for me? And be able to get over it,
basically. Yeah, it's a little bit of pressure.
Kind of the feeling that people know that you're,
like, good, so if you can't do something, it's
like... I don't know, like a competition opportunity.
Yeah. No, I have this like weird thing that I've
had since I was like little thing. Like I really
want people to think like female climbers are
like really impressive. And so whenever I'm like
compared to like a male climber or like in an
opportunity like that where it's like, oh, people
are watching. and they know I have results or
whatever, I'm like, okay, I need to represent
like pretty good everything I can. Oh, yeah.
People are clever, they're strong, and it's like
so not realistic in the slightest. But I think
that, especially when I was like her age, I was
like, oh, I don't know how to deal with this.
Yeah, I totally get that. It's like this feeling
that you are representing like an entire body
of people. Yeah. It's like a lot of pressure
for no reason. Yeah. Just because people say
the stupidest things. I think that's kind of
probably what it brought up. Just hearing people
be like, oh, female climbers are like pro climbers.
Like, oh, I could beat them on this and that.
And it's like, yeah. That's annoying. Okay. Next
one. And then one more after that. ZYXWL2015
asks, how does it work financially for you as
a pro? I'm figuring it out. Yeah. It is really
hard. I think. My mom is amazing. And she supports
us through everything. Because, like, being in
school and climbing, I can't work. Like, it wouldn't
be possible for me to have a job. Without a serious,
like, sacrifice on one of the ends. Yeah. Getting
lost working. Yeah. And I'm, like, I'm graduating
school soon. So I'm trying to figure out, like,
what does that look like for me? And honestly,
I'm trying to figure out the world of sponsorship
and what that looks like and how to get that
and how to manage it. And if I'm being completely
honest, it's really confusing. And I know a lot
of, I've talked to tons of other comp climbers
or just climbers in general about this. It's
just confusing and hard. I think there's been
a lot of success for getting financial support.
It helps a lot through USA Climbing. I got some
funding for some of the World Cups, which was
really helpful. Made a huge difference. But yeah,
just generally, my mommy. It's definitely, the
financial is insane. You have to have time left.
It's just, yeah, it's a lot of money. It makes
some serious financial, like, sacrifices to choose
which one you're going to get. Yeah. I think
we're very lucky to have, like, someone who,
like my mom, who's just like, this is what we
want to do. This is where we spend all our money.
Not replacing our walls. And, yeah, like the
U .S. doesn't really sponsor athletes in the
same way that some other countries do. But it's
good to hear that you... Got some from like USA
Climbing for the World Cups. Yeah, it's beautiful.
Was it like just enough to cover your like travel
and like plane ticket, housing? It's kind of
weird because of it depends on like not quite
performance, but like sometimes they give it
just a team and then sometimes it switches from
the year and like there's all this like intricacy
of like how they do funding. Like for some World
Cups, everything was covered. And then other
World Cups, nothing was recovered. And so it's
like all over the board. Like, yeah. Well, good
luck to you there. Someone sponsor me. Yeah,
please. Okay, last one. Not as serious of a question
from I'm Ken Lin. Does Sovarae always get the
middle seat when traveling? Yes. 100 % yes. No,
it's actually how your mom does. Yeah, my mom.
She, Nikaya, is like a very touchy person. So
she'll fall asleep on you, like no matter what.
So I don't really like having the middle seat
because that means that she's sleeping on top
of me the entire plane ride. And sometimes I'll
make her sit in the middle or my mom's in the
middle. But yes, typically it is me in the middle
seat for sure. She's tiny. She's 14. And like
this wide. She's fine. She can be in the middle
seat. Yeah, I think that's probably also why
people don't know that you guys are like sisters
because you're very different sizes. Well, kind
of. She's like, I'm 5 '2", but I'm built more
like this. She's like a little tiny person, you
know? Wait, how tall are you? Me? Yeah. I'm 4
'10 and a half. Actually? Yes. I just mentioned
myself. Wait, I don't remember that at all. Okay.
Small people come from a small family. How often
do you find that that makes climbs more difficult
for you in the comp scene? It has a huge impact.
I think it makes things, typically it's not as
black or white. Like you can't do the move because
you're short or whatever. I just find that it
makes it more difficult a lot of the time, especially
coordination wise. Like, moves are just going
to be harder if you're tall because you have
much more time in the move to, like, find the
technique. Like, I have to have more power and
it's a quicker move for me to get the jump, if
that makes sense. My mom always tells me, she's
like, my comp road or whatever is going to be
much more, like, up and down. I'm going to have
much more big upsets and stuff just because there's
going to be... inequality in the setting i think
frankly an impossible job in many like circumstances
to set completely even i think just some of the
consistency is harder just like there's a just
can't be a move where it just doesn't work as
well or it was heinous yeah it's just also so
hard to spot whether a move is like think of
all the setters are like 510 like it's just going
to be harder to spot if moves are in unfair But
yeah, like in gyms, I notice it being a problem
significantly more. Wow. Yeah, I really didn't
realize you were that short. Usually when I meet
people who are like under five feet, it like
really stands out to me. And I guess that didn't
stand out to me. So maybe of tall energy. I don't
like being short at all. So it's a good thing
to hear. Look, always guess that like, like they'll
guess that she's like five foot and then I'm
five six. and faster those heights no that seems
like I get that like you give off five six and
five foot energy thank you I'm not yeah maybe
that's why I think that helps okay well that's
all the questions I had then thanks for joining
me today um any like last minute thoughts or
words of wisdom there's something really interesting
about like um being siblings in and having like
something that's like a shared interest. Um,
like I think we are the extreme of that, of being
like having dedicated everything. But I think
my family in general has really been like able
to stay much, much closer because of climbing,
like my mom climbs and all my siblings climb.
And I think that's why I get so like, obviously
I'm excited about climbing for so many different
reasons. But I always, like, I really hope for,
like, in my future, like, when I have a family,
like, I can climb all together with my whatever.
But I would really encourage, like, families
to, like, go climb together because there's a
type of side -by -side play that you can't get
in a lot of other places where it doesn't matter
what you're doing. And it just adds a place of
commonality. That's really cool. Awesome. Okay,
well, thank you for answering those questions.
Do you want to let people know where they can
find you and for sponsorships? Oh, yeah. So my
email is... No, my Instagram is nekaia .sanders.
And then my Instagram is sovrae, so it's just
S -O -V -A -R -A -E. And then that's it. Awesome.
I will add the links to those in the description.
Thank you again. It was amazing to talk to you
guys. Thank you for having us. Thank you so much
for making it to the end of the podcast. Don't
forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed.
Otherwise, you are a super fake climber. If you're
listening on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate
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the discussion on the free competition climbing
discord linked in the description. Thanks again
for listening. Thank you.