We were like, what do you mean she can't go to
the World Cup? She's good enough. When she got
appealed out in Prague in 24, we were bracing
ourselves for full -on depression. It's just
quite surreal to see your daughter with strangers
wanting an autograph and stuff. I remember running
over to the athlete area where you could talk
to them and the big security guards would step
in front of her and say, is it okay if this person
approaches you? I was like, it's me, Aaron. She
hardly ever drinks, but she was definitely semi
under the influence when she had to do that interview.
Welcome to another episode of the That's Not
Real Climbing podcast. I'm your host, Jenny,
and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today,
Carl McNeese. If it's not obvious, Carl is Aaron
McNeese's dad, and I'm so thrilled to get a parent
perspective on the podcast. In this episode,
we'll learn about the family's dedication and
honest approach to building Aaron's climbing
career, how much it costs to support the training
and travel of an athlete, why he's no longer
allowed to watch her comps in person, and we'll
get adorable dad anecdotes from the Olympics.
I hope you enjoy this episode with Carl. Real
quick, I'm excited to announce my new sponsor
helping make this podcast episode possible, Mad
Rock Climbing. I got fitted with their brand
new line of high -performance shoes, the D2 .1s.
They just came out December 6th, but you might
notice a few of your favorite gomp climbers are
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be in the description. Back to the show. It's
quite late for you, isn't it? It's nine o 'clock,
yeah. And my first day back at work after two
weeks off. Oh, wow. A lovely day at work. Yeah,
just getting back from Innsbruck still? Yeah,
we had about seven, eight days in Innsbruck and
then the rest of them building a carriage. Oh,
okay. Seemed like a good idea at the time. Yeah.
Is it done? Yeah, it's done. It's standing. It
hasn't fallen over yet. Impressive. Do you have
any other travel plans coming up soon? No, I
did have. But some of the feedback from Innsbruck
means that I won't have. Oh, wait, what does
that mean? It's just some of the observations
from Erin in terms of having the pressure of
people, not pressure, that's the wrong word.
I think the expectation and the fact that you're
there and therefore she feels the need to spend
time with you. So which sort of breaks the rhythm
of her being involved 100 % with the coaches,
getting herself into the right zone, having her
sort of alone time, recovery time, all that sort
of stuff. It just distracts from it. And it is
incredibly stressful, which I'm sure we'll get
onto later. So I don't think it's a particularly
bad outcome. Yeah, I mean, I was definitely going
to ask about that later. I guess, how are you
feeling about that? I feel like that could be
a little bit sad to work through. Yeah, I guess
everybody's different and we get to watch you
at a lot of, or have got to watch you at a lot
of competitions. I just think you, at the end
of the day, I think the thought of going to watch
them at the competitions is nice and it is nice.
But yeah, but it is, you know, they're World
Cups, they're the top level of competition climbing
and the little things matter. So at the end of
the day, if the athlete is performing less well
or could perform less well because you're there,
then yeah, that's 100 % the right thing to do.
Plus physically being there for some reason,
it is a lot worse. for me anyway than than watching
it on television yeah so does that mean you don't
like you haven't seen the other world cups uh
like in the start of the season you didn't make
it out to those either no the uh the asia ones
uh no and and again i think that that was very
much because you start the season you have no
idea really where you are compared to everybody
else and i think at that point you can't really
add very much uh you She doesn't need emotional
support. If she does need it, she can call. Really,
she just needs the interaction with the coaches.
She'll respond better to the coaches. And fundamentally,
they know more than I know about the competition,
the performance, why the performance was good
or bad, what can be tweaked realistically within
the period of time, all that sort of stuff. And
they have a way of working, which... yeah which
you can disrupt quite easily so yeah that that
and cost well oh yeah cost for sure I get that
okay well we'll definitely get into all those
topics um later but first just so we get to learn
a little bit more about who you are um I mean
in the intro I will have told everyone you are
Aaron's dad um but I think a big question a lot
of people want to know like immediately as soon
as possible do you climb much yeah so I uh I
got into climbing about doing the maths when
I was about 18, when I went to university. And
I'm 55 now, so a long time ago. And all the time
I was at university for six years. Not because
I failed. I did a PhD as well. It was the easy
option. Get a job or do a PhD. I think I'll do
a PhD and stay in education a bit longer. So
I got to climb for sort of six years and I did
it in North Wales. So I had access to all the
mountains there. So I sort of got into climbing
there. I was not very good at it. Because, you
know, they did have climbing walls, but the climbing
walls were pretty rubbish. And the people I climbed
with were proper mountaineers. They only went
out on rock and they only did lead routes. Okay.
Dirt bags now? Yeah. And, you know, apart from
the slate quarries, it was pretty much all natural
gear. And I just crapped myself basically whenever
I had to lead, unless it was really, really simple.
So I overgripped everything, pumped out on most
stuff. But it was still good fun. And then you
had people like Johnny Dawes sort of at that
stage doing amazing stuff. So my few claims to
fame were going to a few parties and Johnny Dawes
was there talking to the elite. And I was like,
wow, we went to a party. Yeah, so I got into
it that way, then left university, got a job,
stopped, largely stopped climbing. And then when
we had kids and they were, I don't know, old
enough, four, five, six, we introduced them to
various things and climbing was one of them.
So I then got back into climbing. I probably
climb maybe twice a week now, sometimes more.
Yeah, that's pretty often. Yeah, yeah, not, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I guess, yeah, I guess I'm comparing
myself to the other people I know. Yeah, I mean,
I climb like three to four times a week. So,
yeah, I think that's often. I honestly don't
want to climb more than like three days a week.
But yeah, twice a week is quite pleasant. And
obviously it's not, it's just climbing. I rarely
do any strength and conditioning or fingerboarding.
And I don't even like the boards themselves.
Erin makes me do the board and it's just, I'm
pathetic at that. Well, it's a separate skill
almost. It seems to be to me anyway. But during
my interview with Erin, I'll link that in the
description for those who haven't heard it yet
also. But she mentioned that you used to do gymnastics.
When was that? So when I went to university,
so I'd lived in Australia. I was born in England.
I was living in Australia from 79 to 83 or something.
So I competed in Australia. where at that point
in time, the standard was lower. So I was at
national level. Then I came back to England and
I was really right on the periphery of national
level. But yeah, so I did it at a relatively
high standard. And then I went to university
with a thought to sort of continue my training,
but soon got distracted by other things. But
I did the university championships in the UK
and I think I came third. in my final undergraduate
year and then i did it again in my last year
of phd i don't want to say i came third again
but i might have come fourth or fifth but yeah
but i sort of did did relatively okay um and
then post -university i i stopped that as well
it's quite hard to find places to do uh the gym
especially the six six different sort of disciplines
so yeah yeah that was i guess everyone will say
it's useful because i've got some element of
body awareness and stuff but uh Yeah, and just
the understanding of what it's like being an
athlete. She mentioned that she believes you
could still do some of the tricks from gymnastics.
What tricks do you think you could still pull
off right now? I mean, I won't make you do anything,
but if you want to show off anything, now's your
chance. Weirdly, the easy handstands and things
like that are easy. Once you know the tricks,
you can hold a handstand for a long, long time.
Flick flacks, backflips, and back somersaults.
I could probably do a front somersault, but they're
harder to land. Cool. Wish we could see it. I'll
go and spend an hour warming up and then send
you a video. Oh, that would be great, actually.
I'd really love to see that. Okay, and so now
getting back into the climbing portion of your
life, how did you end up getting involved in
the climbing competition scene with Aaron? Most
of the walls in the UK run fun competitions each
year. At least one, but sometimes many. And they
run the sort of boulder leagues as well. So they
put the problems up and you've got so much time
to log how many you do or how many attempts and
stuff. So we got into it through the fun competitions
first. And often they have a junior category
or youth category. So that's how we first got
into it. And then you've got various competitions
which run locally in the UK. So we got into some
of those. and then they have what's called a
youth climbing series which um which as the name
suggests is sort of it's done regionally and
then the i think it's the top three from each
region go to a grand final uh in in well usually
in scotland at the national climbing center there
and then you get crowned the youth climbing series
champion which then qualifies you for the gb
team weirdly if you're on the gb team you're
not allowed to enter it um okay so it's sort
of like a a sort of backdoor route in but it
opens it up to a much wider environment and then
you unbeknown to us at that time you'd have national
competitions like the UK UK Nationals Welsh Nationals
Scottish Nationals all of which if you win or
podium get you the right to go to the GB selection
whether it's for junior grades or senior grades
so Yeah, we had no idea really how the GB team
thing worked. But through doing some of those
competitions and the YCS Youth Climbing Series,
we became aware of the GB climbing team. And
they were like, I don't know. It's like when
you see these elite group of people who are warming
up and doing their thing and then they absolutely
destroy you on the wall. That was what it was
like the first time we saw them. And they were
all wearing their kit and stuff. And I think
that's when Aaron sort of clocked them and thought,
oh, they're on a different level. I can go win
a local comp, but these guys are on a completely
different level. And I think that sort of inspired
her to see if she could get up to that level
and see if she could get onto the team. So how
young do you think she was when she kind of first
had that thought of wanting to make the national
team? I guess it happened quite quickly, so I'm
guessing it was like 14, maybe something like
12 or 14. Yeah, I really should know. Okay. Yeah,
because when she went for it, we just moved her
from one climbing wall to another climbing wall
against her will. Why against her will? I guess
we are one of the challenging things. is to work
out what's best for them to achieve their goals
without trying to be pushy about it and so we
we had two children both climbing uh her brother
who's about a year and a half two years older
um and they were they were climbing at a wall
called the reach in southeast London for their
squad um but there was another wall called the
castle in London itself which had a much stronger
squad and a much more focused squad and a lot
of those squad had moved into the GB team. And
our son wanted to go to that squad, wanted to
go and try out for that squad. Aaron didn't.
We persuaded them both to go to the tryouts and
they both got offered a space and Aaron did not
want to go at all. But yeah, we sort of said,
well, if Callum's going. There's no way we're
going to go to two different walls. So you're
going to have to go there. And eventually she
decided it was really good and much better. But
we sort of thought they would put them both in
the same squad. But for reasons only known to
them, they decided to put them in two different
squads. I think because they felt everyone was
too young to be in the same squad as Callum.
But that meant that they had to go two times
a week. One squad was on two days and the other
squad was on the other two days. So there was
a period of about two and a half years where
every single day we were having to drive from
where we live into the center of London where
we, my wife, was having to do that drive. So
she basically picked the kids up from school,
got them in the car, gave them food, drove into
the center of London, which was a two hour drive.
That is so inefficient. yeah yeah and then drive
all the way back yeah geez yeah thinking back
to the youth scene or yeah just when she was
growing up um do you remember any times where
you need you needed to like push her more or
um i guess like how do you find the balance between
when to push versus when to back off and suggest
more rest my experience when they were when she
was young girl was that she didn't The schedule
wasn't intense. It was more intense than a normal
person, but she probably wasn't doing more than
three or four days a week. And she probably wasn't
climbing for more than four hours in any of those
sessions. And a four -hour session would just
be like playing around on boulders. They were
structured to some extent, but not massively
structured. And the competition sort of lent
themselves. There were obvious ones that she
had to do, which were the nationals. So she would
go to all of those if she could do. And then
you had some higher profile sort of fun competitions,
which aspirationally I think she wanted to do.
But yeah, we didn't really have to. Sometimes
we had to suggest to her ones to do just because
we thought it would be a good idea. But generally
at that age, she was quite happy to compete in
most scenarios. I would say that that was all
fine. And then she went to some EYCs. I think
she did a year. So she had four EYCs, which she
did okay. And I think she came 25th just in about
every single one of them. So she didn't make
semis or anything. But first year on the team.
She seemed quite happy with that. And we were
quite happy with that. And then COVID came. So
the next year was completely wiped out. I think
she did one national competition, which was,
she did the Welsh, Welsh boulder and came third.
And then in her age group, and then she did the
UK lead or something and won it. And then COVID
hit and everything was shut down. And then I,
I think we went like a whole, you know, all the
way through that season. And then they opened
up world championships, youth world championships.
And she got to go to that. And I think she'd
been allowed to go to two training days as a,
you know, we were allowed to travel as an elite
athlete. So she went to the youth world championship
and came fifth. Oh, okay. Not bad. Which was,
you know, good or unexpectedly good. Fifth in
bold, I think. 10th or 11th in lead um and then
obviously things started to loosen up and she
could actually get to competitions the following
year but then she started to break into the senior
squad um so she had less interest in going to
the youth ones and was more focused on the seniors
um and i think i don't know i we had a lot of
discussions because you're around which competitions
to go to and all that sort of thing. So when
you're in the senior squad, you can either go
to the regionals. So ours would be the European,
I guess in your case, it would be North, South,
Asia. It wouldn't be Asia Pacific. It would be
North, South America. I don't know what they're
called. So you have a choice between going to
the European Cups or if you qualify, you can
go to the World Cups. The European Cups being
slightly easier. So I think she had a year when
she first broke into the team, she had a year
doing the European Cups because they actually
said, you know, she's transitioning into the
senior team and we don't think she should go
to World Cups. At that stage, she was probably
second, I think, in Boulder in the UK and second,
third in lead. So we were like, what do you mean
she can't go to World Cups? She's good enough.
And actually Tom, who you had on the program
as well. So Tom sort of said, you know, I think
it's right. And with hindsight, he was 100 %
correct. So it's a really good example of why
you should listen to coaches. It was right as
in she should have started the World Cups earlier?
No, no, no. She should have eased herself. She
should and did ease herself into the European
Cups. Because I think, you know. You always want
to jump in. Well, yeah, I think as a parent,
you sort of like, well, yeah, if she's good enough,
she's good enough. And then there's merit to
that to some point. But the gap is so big. You're
going from the European Cup into the World Cups.
The gap is huge. If you look at some of the results,
you'll see people winning a European Cup and
then not making semifinals at a World Cup. Yeah,
not always. You get some like Orianne Pertone
smashed it all the way through. Um, so you do
get some, some exceptions, but, um, yeah, it's
just such a big jump up and it's a jump up from
nationals to Europeans or, you know, the, the
regional side, you know, it was with hindsight,
it was 100 % the correct thing to do because
it allowed her to see where the level was, get
herself up to a reasonable level within the European
cups and, uh, and then sort of re reset for the
world cups. And, and weirdly because of. various
cancellations because covid was still kicking
around uh some of the european cups were cancelled
they said oh in that case because you couldn't
go to those we'll send you to a couple of world
cups which so it worked out really really well
in the end she got to see european cups she made
one final um and then uh and didn't trouble the
podium actually she made one final and it was
a lead and she was completely misread uh a section
of the uh leader and decided to everybody else
went like it was like it was a sort of uh pockets
traverse everybody else did it pocket traverse
with feet and everyone decides you try to campus
the whole thing and she campus most of it but
then just ran out of energy on the final move
um but uh yeah so she did that and then she could
yeah so she's like oh yeah i made a semi a final
um and then she went to the world cups and uh
i think she was 40 something so yeah she was
like oh my god that you know that's a whole another
level what do i need to do and in terms of the
whole process like memberships teams coaching
um all of that must kind of add up and be quite
expensive if you're comfortable with it could
you like do you want to give an estimate of how
much all of it like cost every year yeah i mean
the the membership is not i honestly don't know
how much it is British Mountaineering Council
membership. It's not, I mean, it's not debilitating.
The, yeah, I mean, you have to go to certain
competitions and they generally cost 60, 70 quid
to enter. Well, the only ones that we tend to
go to are the selection ones now, which are two
of them. So, yeah, again, that's not, yeah, it's
cost, but it's not a particularly high cost.
The biggest one I would say is, again, you know,
different for different athletes, but I would
say, When your child suddenly decides that actually
this is something I want to take seriously, then
you've got to take it seriously as well. And
generally that means that you can't just go to
the same wall every day. So if you happen to
live close enough to a wall, and we chose a place
to live in Kent, which at that point in time
had no walls anywhere near it. I think the closest
one was about 50 minute drive. They've subsequently
built about... three quite close when we moved
away um nice but of course but yeah so so when
yeah when she made that decision we were like
okay so yeah we need to get you to various locations
so you can experience different route setting
uh you know different problems yeah because they
they do reset quite frequently but not massively
frequently and if it's the same setters it tends
to be similar styles um yeah so so basically
we were writing off weekends um so you make a
sacrifice in time sacrificing cost because you
know so we had to you know we'd go up to sheffield
a lot um that was a four -hour drive staying
overnight um yeah so yeah i think that's that's
probably where the the cost element comes in
and then yeah because they're unknowns a lot
of the walls would say oh yeah we'll let the
gb senior squad come and climb for free but uh
you know the junior squad we won't you've got
to pay um then you're paying as a parent as well
often you know if you if you happen to want to
have a little play as well which is all fine
but yeah that's another 10 to 15 pounds per day
uh and then food that you're spending whilst
you're there and stuff even if you try to you
do as much of that as you can um and then if
they get the internationals you obviously got
to pay for them to go out there, pay for them
to stay somewhere. Often when they're young,
I think a lot of parents do accompany them out.
So then you're paying for yourselves to go out
as well. Yeah, so I think that's where the cost
comes in. I'd say it's probably 10 ,000 to 20
,000. Yeah, I mean, that might be... 10 10 would
be the minimum 20 would be the absolute maximum
i'd say um yeah whilst whilst they're spinning
i've been right at the beginning of it wasn't
that much towards the end towards the end of
of us paying for everything it was probably closer
to that because we were obviously paying for
everything for her she was living in a lot of
different hotels to train um and then we were
ferrying around everywhere And all that sort
of stuff. Yeah. So I think, you know, it's slightly
different now because she has got other funding
options. But yeah, I think at its worst, it was
probably pushing towards 15 ,000, 20 ,000. Yeah,
geez. And I suspect, you know, you could probably
do it cheaper. But that was, you know, we used
to send her off to competitions with a sort of
suitcase in which there was a hot pot, you know,
which you can plug in and make your own pasta
and stuff. Oh, that's nice. So, yeah. Which,
weirdly, she still does that, even though she
doesn't have to now. She still does that because
she actually likes that process, weirdly. Yeah,
I mean, like the ritual consistency. Yeah, I
think, yeah. And it's easy, isn't it? It's not
particularly exciting. She just makes pasta,
pesto, and tuna. So she can take all of that
with her, so she also then doesn't have to sort
of go out and find it. Oh, yeah, that totally
makes sense. Okay, geez, yeah. I mean, a lot
of sacrifice, and it's not cheap to... cheap
to get into no i do i do remember one of the
fathers turning around to me i think at the beginning
of the second year and saying you're going to
destroy destroy cars and he was right we did
we did put a lot of miles onto cars yeah i mean
that's yeah really far drives i didn't know that
it would i didn't know that the uk was that big
um yeah if we drive up to uh from from where
we lived in which is just outside london or commuter
town of London we used to if we had to go to
Ratho we'd either fly up there or it would be
a 7 -8 hour drive which in itself then you start
to get into the whole debate of you've got to
factor in the fact that sitting down for 7 -8
hours is not the best uh you know sort of um
preparation to then go and climb as hard as you
can because you're going all the way to a really
really good wall so then you start to get into
the well actually it would be better to fly even
though it might be more expensive because then
i'm gonna have to hire a car when i get at the
other end and uh drive so yeah so you start to
get into a lot of those sort of considerations
good thing you went through the sacrifice it
paid off thankfully But I mean, it looks like
when you look through her results, I felt like
before maybe like 2023 -ish, she was still pretty
unknown, sort of like even like a little bit
quiet in the youth scene. What happened between
like 2023 and 2024 that made it such an incredible
season after? Yeah, so 2023 was the year when
she did World Cups. I think it was exclusive.
She won the European Cup at the beginning of
the season, then she just did World Cups. And
that was the year when you had to get the OQS
points, basically the top 40, I think, ranked,
went to OQS. And then, yeah, so she was basically
looking at that year and saying, okay, so this
is the year I need to try to get myself into
the top 40. not really trained changed her training
plan massively um and yeah it was all it was
all relatively new as well we'd we'd moved to
a company called lattice who create training
plans um and we just moved from working with
um jen wood who's who's a really great gb athlete
and a coach with lattice and we'd moved to ollie
tor who who sort of owns and runs lattice who
was providing even more bespoke because I think
Jen was in a bit of a weird position because
she was still on the team at that point in time
so she was coaching Erin so that was sort of
new she was working really closely with or starting
to work more closely with Rachel Carr who was
one of the GB coaches yeah so we sort of went
through that year and then she did yeah I think
she said yeah she squeaked in literally squeaked
in and then we sat down with Tom Greenall who
was the GB head coach at the time with Rachel,
with Ollie and me. And they sort of said to her,
so Erin's very good at talking to us. She's not
very good at talking to other people openly.
She's much, much better at it now. But then she
was quite quiet. They were like, oh, yeah, what
do you want? And she was like, well, you know,
I'm going to do my best, blah, blah, blah. I
think Tom was saying, but what do you want? Do
you want to go and do your best and enjoy it?
Do you want to go and qualify for the Olympics?
Do you want to go and put down a statement sort
of thing? And she went, yeah. I think she actually
said, yeah. And Tom was like, say it, say what
you want. And they did actually make her say,
I want to go to OQS and I want to qualify. um
ideally i'd like to qualify comfortably um so
they sort of said that and then um and then they
they basically sort of said okay so there's a
lot to workshop it wasn't they didn't sort of
pull any punches in terms of you know what that
was going to look like in terms of the training
plan and yeah they've sort of said you're going
to go go deep into a hole you're going to feel
like absolute crap um yeah we're going to have
to push it really hard i think that's the famous
yeah famous top line of you know well they keep
pushing if she doesn't break keep pushing yeah
but yeah she was she was massively behind where
she needs to be uh yeah and she'll say that as
well yeah she was nowhere nowhere near um the
level one to to qualify for the olympics at that
point in time but actually to be any sort of
a contender at a world cup she was a non -entity
um and i don't mean that in a nasty way i mean
you know there was there was no there was no
um event which could have happened where she
would have um you know made a final let alone
podium um just like honesty of yeah yeah yeah
yeah absolutely brutal honesty, I think, which
I think really works well with Erin. And it may
not work well with other athletes, but it certainly
worked well with Erin. And she had seen, I think
she'd been observing some other athletes that
she'd seen who were dead on their feet at the
end of a session. And she was like, well, I don't
actually feel like that a lot of the time. And
I think the other key thing we said to Ollie
was, if you look at her 24 season, sort of it
started off okay um i can't remember where she
came i think she did one boulder world cup which
came 39th or something and then she made a semi
-final in in south korea came 17th or something
and then she just tailed off it got worse and
worse um in the 23 season or 23 yeah let's say
24 i'm pretty sure she made a final yeah yeah
yeah so uh so we sort of said well how do we
We need to change the training plan so that it's,
you know, that we are continuing to work and
keep up the standards so we can maintain and
actually ideally improve. So if you look at,
you know, I think Toby's performances, Toby Roberts,
they tend to sort of get better. And obviously
he's had a massive turnaround this year at Innsbruck.
That's pretty cool. So, yes, all these things
came into play. She went into a... you know,
a brutal, brutal training plan. And our job in
that was quite simple. I guess quickly we realised
that often she'll have, you know, Rachel will
sort of work with her, but Rachel can't go there.
And there were eight, nine hour days. So, you
know, Rachel can't be there for all that time
because she's obviously servicing a lot of other
athletes. You know, Ollie would sort of pop in,
pop out, have a look at stuff. We brought in
an S &C person, so they were sort of involved.
But in reality, I think she just needed company.
So that tended to be me, sometimes my son and
Lindsay and me probably more on the, naturally,
I think I was happy to do the actual physical
activities. But emotionally, I'm probably a little
less. uh turned on whereas lindsey my wife she's
she's much more attuned to that side of it so
i think she was much better picking her up and
sort of saying um you need to step away from
it but not not step away from the training yeah
so there were a number of occasions i think where
she was like you you're getting upset you're
getting frustrated stop And then we'd be like,
well, I've still got two or three hours. She
goes, yeah, well, you can still do two or three
hours, but stop, grab a coffee or grab something
to eat. Just have a 10, 15 minute break and then
go back to it. Yeah, so it wasn't sort of making
an excuse to say, oh, no, you know, you're upset.
Let's go home. It was sort of saying, take a
step away and then go back to it. So, yeah, you're
not here the nicest possible way. You're not
here to feel good. Yeah, but you knew this is
what you signed up to. You knew you would feel.
crappy and tired and all this sort of stuff.
So it's just part of the process. But obviously
the first time you do that, it's quite horrible.
And probably, actually, to be fair, the second
time you do it, it's not that nice either. But
the results are nice. So if it all works. So
yeah, so that was the slightly different aspect
that we got to experience there because suddenly
it was like, well, yeah, we need to split our
time up. So yeah, most of my holiday that year
was spent in a cold gym somewhere. Just being
there for Erin Lindsay basically sort of wound
up her work that she was doing so she could spend
more time at gyms and ferrying Erin around to
the various locations, which was absolutely fine
because it meant that we were still sort of involved.
I got to find weird and wonderful things to do
to sort of make some of those exercises more
fun. Yeah, what were some of those exercises?
There's so much stuff now on YouTube. on the
internet. So you can look at the sort of exercises
that athletes do in other sports and then sort
of either adapt them or say actually that one's
relevant to climbing. Plyometrics is one we really
got into but only where they sort of had some
element of you could use this for quick footwork.
on a coordination boulder or you could use this
for explosive movement off of a boulder you know
then you adapt that to say okay so let's get
ourselves into a really uncomfortable position
and then try to explode out of it or you know
let's let's you know balance on on one foot on
this block and that you know if you sort of move
a weight around and then you can actually start
to understand which muscles to move in your body
Um, and a lot of stuff with resistance bands
where you, you know, you're resisting the movement,
but still keeping the balance. Um, so you, you
know, personally, I think it starts to teach
you how to stop swings and how to counteract,
uh, barn door, dooring off of stuff. Um, so we
deal with a lot of that, a lot of balance stuff.
Um, and we still muck around with a lot of that.
Uh, yeah. Chucking balls. you know multiple balls
and sort of throwing them back um i think also
like med i love doing stuff with medicine balls
where you catch it at weird angles okay yeah
and then so you again you sort of utilize your
muscles which you would normally use and you
can make that very aerobic if you're throwing
it all over the place um so that's fun um And
I think, you know, therefore the warmup can actually
end up being sort of, you know, an hour plus
long, but actually you've done a whole load of,
you've got your body warm, but you've actually
done a whole load of other stuff, but it's sort
of badged up as a bit more fun. If that works
for the person. How are you involved in her training
nowadays? Or like, how has that evolved? You
mentioned, yeah, you were like pretty involved
before and now maybe it's kind of waned a bit.
Yeah. So I would say we were not that involved.
Early, early on, because we just relied on the
coaches. Then when she became more serious, yeah,
through COVID, we became more involved just because
we sort of had to because it was all at home.
And then as she came out of COVID and became
more serious, we became more involved just because
we were pulling together a team. So one of the
challenges we've got is you've got Rachel, Car,
Olly, Tor. Tom Parkinson, who's the S &C coach.
Yeah, those three are working together. And they
do, they work together really well, but obviously
that's a risk to have that many people involved
in a training plan. And I remember a number of
people actually sort of said to me, I don't think
it will work. But it works for Aaron and it works.
But one of the things I try to do is make sure
that we have regular meetings as a threesome.
to discuss all that sort of stuff and you know
look at when the next training block is yeah
and that's where it's really it's quite interesting
to see them all work together um yeah because
rachel's at the competition so she's got direct
feedback ollie's got all this sort of science
and knowledge and but but obviously you can only
put so much of it into play at a certain point
in time and from an snc perspective there's only
so much you can do so there's a bit of maintenance
but actually you know if you suddenly sort of
say to tom we're not going to do this comp So
that gives us a four week block. You can be like,
okay, in four weeks, we might be able to achieve
something. So let's do this, this and this. And
then your Ollie's feeding into that. Rachel's
saying, yeah, I think that's a good idea. Or
actually, no, I don't think it's compression.
I think we need to work on contact strength or
whatever. So it works. Yeah, for this dynamic,
it works really well, but you do have to work
at it a bit. So I would say our, as she went
into the Olympic qualifying bit. We were more
in support role and making it fun and adding
in exercises which we thought might add value.
After the Olympic year, we had another discussion
around what we want to achieve. We wanted to
achieve 25 and she wanted to be more consistently
challenging for a medal. So obviously that required
more training. We had more specific areas of
weakness to identify there. So winter wasn't
massively different, to be fair. It was back
in a hole. But I would say during this year,
we've probably taken more of a backwards step
because Erin's getting older, so she knows what
she has to do. She's got access to more people
who she can train with. But yeah, we still, I
probably, when she's in the country and when
she's in a training mode, I'm probably still
see her at least once a week. I think her brother's
a lot more heavily involved in training with
her now. And to be fair, he's far, far better
at setting problems than I am and things like
that. He doesn't set, he doesn't root set, but
he's actually. doesn't root set yet but yeah
he will he'll be able to go to a woody board
and sort of say yeah i'll make up this route
for you um or he'll be at a point on a on a splat
wall you know and sort of do a 70 move route
um to to sort of simulate a lead route and he'll
be able to eliminate stuff and sort of say okay
you know either climb that but eliminate that
and that or actually climb up to the top using
these three routes but only that hold that hold
he just sees stuff like that a lot better than
than i can so yeah that's been really useful
and i think yeah some of the some of the more
recent videos certainly on the boards most of
those problems have been set by callum and they're
all they're really horrible well it's nice to
have a lot of family support so yeah earlier
you mentioned that being you as a parent physically
being there could be a distraction um which competitions
did you choose to go to and then i guess i wonder
like if you only go to a few select competitions
doesn't she like maybe feel even more pressure
because that's like the one that you see please
excuse this brief intermission but if you're
interested in deleted scenes from this episode
where he talks about the pivotal moments in her
training growing up and his perspective on the
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helps a great deal as well back to the show yeah
and i suspect that's some of the some of the
issue so we're not a constant feature at the
competition so we're not part of her her setup
for the comps whereas and you know some of the
other parents are are a constant feature which
is you know which which works well i think or
can work well um yeah so we went to prague which
to be fair park worked you know quite well um
she did she did well qualified for finals in
fourth and then finals were cooled off so there
was no finals Which was upsetting. Well, upsetting
was a shame. But yeah, I still think Oriana had
done a really good job there. So that is what
it is. And then we went to Innsbruck. Mainly
because we'd never, we go to Innsbruck a lot
to train, but we'd never been, she'd never actually
done the World Cup there. And it was obviously
quite a well -informed audience and stuff like
that. one we wanted to go to anyway just to experience
um yeah and and that i think us being there was
me lindsey and callum uh and and her partner
so uh yeah i think it just threw her off yeah
not not in a big way uh you know and it might
have happened anyway but but why have that risk
there i mean at the end of the day like i say
yeah we were we were sort of stood in the crowd
um and i tend to do little hand movements so
i'm stood in the crowd going oh god i look like
an idiot um and and you're you're yeah you're
basically climbing every move with them you don't
you know we don't always get a fantastic view
i and i just found it really you know really
stressful lindsey's finds it really stressful
as well um and and yeah so when we when we had
the discussion it was quite an easy discussion
And I think you're backed up by the coaches as
well. You almost get to the point of saying,
well, yeah, if this is the equivalent of a Masters
or a Grand Slam, you're there in your unit of
professionalism with your coaches, with your
separate hotels, you're removed from all those
influences. And yes, you might see them in the
audience, but it's, you know. but they'd be doing
it probably for a number of years. So, yeah,
for me and Lindsay and actually all of us, it
was a very simple, you know, we're saying if
we present any issue to you at all, we're very
happy not to come. Yeah, we can watch it on,
in Europe, you have to watch it on Discovery+.
But, yeah, we can watch it on Discovery+. Yeah.
She always calls us up after each of the rounds.
So we get to talk to her anyway. And then when
she does get back, we can celebrate or commiserate.
So yeah, it doesn't massively change anything
because as you go through the rounds, you can't
really celebrate because you're straight back
into recovery and all that sort of stuff. And
generally when it finishes, if you do well. So
I think Innsbruck, she got third. By the time
she'd gone through anti -doping and stuff, it
was... gone 11 o 'clock at night oh yeah so you
can't really get anything done in in the um yeah
you can't celebrate too much because you know
she's not she's not wanting to go to a nightclub
or anything like that um uh yeah so literally
it was like oh okay um i think uh we we had the
leftover food that was in the in the cafe at
the wall in innsbruck and then uh and then went
home So, yeah, you know, in some ways it's always
nicer and easier to celebrate when she gets back
to the UK and, you know, all of that bit's done
and she could be 100 % with us. You know, it
wasn't a hard decision at all. And, you know,
it was the right decision for her. You know,
it might not be as we move into 26, 27, 28, however
long, then I'm sure that we can try to introduce
it back in, in some way or shape, but I'd much
rather. her be able to perform at her best than
you know physically be there and her maybe not
perform at the best yeah that makes sense yeah
you also said that the experience of actually
watching a competition is kind of terrible um
have you like found any strategies that helps
you calm down from that or no the uh i i think
one of the first things that we went to is as
when she got onto the youth team was was some
sort of psychology thing for parents you're sort
of saying oh yeah yeah this is obviously stressful
for your kid and stuff but actually you've got
to try to find a way to enjoy it but obviously
no way i've had to do that um i i've never i
said yeah i've never found a way of of taking
away the stress um i i am less stressed about
it now than than previously um but i think that's
I think when she first started competing, we
really didn't have any clues. So we're like,
oh, maybe, maybe, maybe. And then with knowledge,
we were like, no. They don't televise the qualification
and she's not going to get out of qualification.
So this is what it is. So you were basically
watching it on the app. And then when she had
the 24 season, it was like, geez. So that was
all like a massive shock. So that was relatively
low stress because we're like, Jesus, this can't
be happening. But then by the time of the Olympics,
you then had that glimmer of hope that could
she make the final? And then she made the final.
Like, my God, could she get on the podium? So
you had that glimmer of hope, which added a bit
of stress. uh into it but i guess that's good
stress so you know and even now i'm still i i
think i'm still coming to terms with the fact
that she's performing at a really high standard
so you know you would on the performance she's
done so far you sort of expect her to make finals
it would be a bit of a shock if she didn't but
but in my head i'm still like oh you know oh
she might not make semis um so it did that that
aspect is weird but but yeah but less stressful
now i think because she does generally she delivers
and you know certainly getting into semis that
seems to be quite yeah you can see quite quickly
whether it's a boulder or lead that she is where
she needs to be um we used to joke because you're
on the lead because you've got those two qualification
routes often you can qualify on the first one
if you do a really high or top it and you can
actually look at the results say you you don't
actually have to bother to climb the second one
you'll be in um And that's happened a few times.
So that was, you know, it was almost like a wow.
I never thought that would happen. Is that the
strategy? Like just don't really do the second
one? No, I think, I don't think, well, you know,
certainly, I mean, some of the athletes have
talked in the past around, you know, I don't
want to come out last. So I'll deliberately muck
up a bit. But I just, the margins are so close
now. Yeah. Especially with the boulder scoring
system and stuff. I think you can't. You can't
have that attitude. So yeah, certainly for Erin,
I don't think she ever gives anything less than
100%, although she will sometimes tape her fingers
for the lead routes. Oh, that makes sense. On
the qualification. So she'll sort of bank a bit
of skin and maybe compromise the climb slightly.
Okay, smart. Yeah, I'm surprised you would say
that it's a lot less stressful now because now
there's more expectations involved too with making
finals. And then if you don't make finals, then
it's a lot more painful maybe. Yeah, but it was
depressing. I can't think of the right word.
I sort of think it's quite hard to maintain that
level all the time. So you, I think, I think
she's been on a final streak since the beginning
of 2023. I mean, she was, she made the finals
in Prague in 23, but then was appealed out, which
is fine. And then every finals through to Innsbruck
Boulder, where she didn't make the final. Well,
and that was purely down to performance. Yeah,
like was that a stressful moment or like disappointment?
Yeah, it was more disappointment for her because
she was so close to Boulder 3 and Boulder 4 on
another day. I'm sure she would have sent one
or both of them and that would have got her in
quite comfortably. Yeah, I think you've got to
be pragmatic. I remember she called us up after
when she got appealed out in Prague in 24. we
were bracing ourselves for, you know, full -on
depression. And she was just like, we're like,
oh, yeah, you sound okay. And she's like, yeah,
I just wasn't good enough. We're like, yeah,
but you weren't good enough. Yeah, you got in.
She goes, no, no, I wasn't good enough. If I'd
been good enough, it wouldn't have mattered if
they'd appealed me out of one. I would have had
enough points to get through anyway. So, you
know, I wasn't good enough. I just need to get
better. So she was really massively pragmatic
about that. And, you know, I'd sort of say after
Innsbruck. boulder that was when we had the discussion
so yeah again pragmatic about it and sort of
saying well what yeah what's different why you
know why didn't i perform as i would have expected
to perform why did i throw myself so much at
boulder three and not save something for boulder
four which was the power boulder you so yeah
i think as long as she's taking something from
each of them you know it's disappointing but
um as long as she's taking something from it
and moving forward in her mind and and you know
from what we can see i think it's sort of oh
yeah okay and i guess that's the journey towards
uh getting to that point where you're like okay
i'm i now feel i am good enough and i've got
the mindset and i've got the the structure and
the team that actually i should be making finals
and i should be challenging for the medals every
single time getting into the yanya like category
yeah Well, that's a good mindset to have. I'm
glad to hear that. None of these were like super
depressing moments for her. I think they were.
I think she was upset. But I think you could
be upset, can't you? But then you just need to
process it and think, OK, well, what do I change?
What do I do differently? Yeah. Can you think
of like the most stressful competition that you've
had to watch? Yeah. Budapest OQS. It was the
second qualifier. And she, yeah, she'd got third
in the first one in Shanghai. So it was, you're
sort of thinking, oh, yes, this is nailed on.
She's going to get the Olympic ticket. And she
had a disaster, well not disaster, she had a
really bad for her boulder round. And we were
suddenly like, oh God, she's got to come out
and do, she had to, she had to get to the headwall.
Actually, I think a hold or two onto the headwall
in order to get into semifinals. And we're like,
God, if she doesn't make semifinals, then this
is going to be the most stressful watch because
people could actually overtake her. So that was
hugely stressful. I think there's a video that
is on one of her YouTubes, which is Callum, my
son, videoing her. And he's super, it's literally
like this. He was like, and then I think there's
a bit where he goes, that's it, she's in. in
semis yes that was probably the the most stressful
it was about 34 degrees it was really baking
hot so you're sort of like you've got heat stress
as i say this is a non -athlete so you as a as
a as a spectator you got heat stress and stress
it was it was uh yeah that was quite an unpleasant
environment um obviously the athletes had it
easy because they just had to climb up this wall
in 34 degrees oh yeah that's pretty simple yeah
that was probably the most stressful because
he's thinking my god this is a a huge dream and
a huge moment which might be about to disappear.
So you were there in person for that? We were.
We went to the Budapest ones, which was really
great because, again, we were bystanders in that.
Probably the first time I'd seen her when she
actually got your approach by fans. I'd never
seen that before, so that was quite nice. So
when she came out of the Atelier area, we'd sort
of migrated around there. But we didn't get to
talk to her for quite a long time because she
was just working her way through a crowd, which
is quite surreal to see a daughter with strangers
wanting an autograph and stuff. Yeah, no, she
had suddenly blew up. I think it was, I don't
want to say like surprising, but yeah, I think
still like around that time, it was still pretty
early. Not a lot of people knew who she was.
And so it was kind of like... I'd say even in
the UK, even in the UK, she was still relatively
unknown. I think Rachel used to say, Coach used
to sort of say, you're the best boulder in the
UK and nobody knows it. Yeah, it was a silent
rise, wasn't it? And I think, yeah, and even
at the Olympics, because I think she must have
been one of the lowest, because it was on, I
think it was on World Cup ranking or World ranking.
So she was. Always either the last out or the
first out, depending on which round it was. It
was a long way back. And Okuress as well. So
she was like, yeah, you're still thinking, oh,
yeah, these are the positions. And then Erin
came out almost like last and was able, well,
unfortunately for somebody, knocked them out.
Yeah, I mean, it was so interesting. Like I remember
when I first interviewed her, she was just saying
that she was still like waiting hours in ISO
for like quality. It came a really long way.
It's very interesting to see. Yeah, yeah. That's
also presented a challenge because I think qualifying,
she struggled a bit with the qualifying high
up in semis. It means you come out earlier for
semis and that didn't give her enough time to
warm up. Oh, yeah. So she had to adapt her warm
up. Yeah. So, yeah, it's quite weird how you
have to continue to adapt. to uh to your sort
of yeah what your performance is giving you yeah
it's ever -changing and of course how was your
experience at the olympics did you get to enjoy
the venue much or was it mostly just stressful
uh stressful to watch that was um yeah it was
it was okay actually it yeah it was there was
a little bit of stress actually there's probably
quite a lot of stress around the Because at that
point, she really wanted to make finals. And
there was a possibility. It wasn't beyond the
realms of possibility. So that was a bit stressful.
But I'd say the atmosphere was fantastic. The
venue was fantastic. It was bloody hot again.
But it was an amazing venue, packed, literally
at capacity as well, which was fantastic to see.
They did a really... really good job um yeah
and so that that sort of i guess being in that
environment and that um setting sort of took
away some of the stress yeah but it was it was
a bit stress i i the things i can remember is
for whatever reason when she qualified it was
like the the lead part was was what determined
whether she was going to get into the final or
not but somehow we were sat with a whole load
of other parents So I'm guessing it must have
been the friends and family tickets. Yeah. So
we were, we were sat with all, you know, a number
of the other parents. So you had to be quite
careful around, you know, what you, what you
were like, you know, you know, cause obviously
you want them to get in, but in order for her
to get in, other people had to fall earlier.
So, yeah. So it was, it was quite weird, you
know, weird, weird vibe. But I mean, you know,
you know, generally all the parents are so. at
that level they're so supportive and stuff um
yeah so i think we were sat next to um uh what's
the name casper cova oh yeah jenya jenya yeah
her her parents or her mother in particular um
yeah she was lovely giving us sort of hugs and
stuff um yeah so it was really really quite cool
i do i do uh although the other bit i remember
is she yeah she qualified we knew she'd qualified
so i was super happy um and then i saw her that
you had barriers at the front where the where
the athletes could mill around and then there
was a sort of area off to the far right which
is all behind barriers but you could actually
go and talk to the athletes and get the design
stuff but it was sort of security patrolled but
she was at the front and i thought oh yeah i'm
literally two things away and somebody had gone
out of the seat So I thought I could jump that
and get to go and talk to her. So I did jump
it, really athletically jumped it and went to
talk to her. I was like, wow, yeah, this is amazing.
It's happening. And she was like, yeah, I'll
leave it. And then I could see people minister.
I'll go back to my seat. And I tried to jump
back into my seat, completely messed it up. And
then he smacked my head. So I looked very uncool
getting back into it. Yeah. So that was, yeah,
I mean, that was, I guess, stressful, but happy.
And then the... The final was less stressful
until there was a brief moment where you're thinking,
oh, could she scrape into third? I don't think
she was ever going to get first or second because
I think Brooke and Yanya had sort of wrapped
them up. But depending on her lead, I or Jessie
may not have overtaken her. But I mean, by her
own admission, she made that lead route really
hard. I mean, she fought really hard as well,
but yeah, she didn't read it. maybe in the most
efficient manner but yeah in reality i think
by that stage we were just massively happy she
was she'd made it to the final and got to climb
again yeah and then suddenly she had all the
power i remember running over to the the athlete
area where you could talk to them and and the
big security guards would step in front of her
and say she almost stopped you and say is it
is it okay if this person approaches you yeah
i was like it's me So yeah, that was quite exciting
watching her. Yeah, he can come over. Okay, that's
nice to hear. I'm glad you had a not too stressful
time. I was going to say the other interesting,
we went to the, I'm assuming everybody does this,
but they have like houses, like the GB house.
So all the athletes and all the friends and family,
because you can't go to the village, obviously,
where they're staying. So generally after the
event, they can invite you to this GB house,
which is like, I didn't know this was a thing,
so that's interesting. Yeah, so we went there,
which is really nice. It's a really nice location.
They have a bar, and they have a bar which I
think lots of people can go to. Then by special
invitation, you can go into the special athlete
area where, again, they have another bar and
food and nibbles and stuff. It's a really beautiful
setting. So she invited us there. Toby had just
won his gold, I think, the night before. So he
was there. discovering alcohol i think oh yeah
uh um but uh yeah i had my dad out there uh erin
had one of her sort of best friends from school
where lindsey was there kind of was there uh
so he went into this um yeah this this area and
uh yeah and all proceeded to get really really
quite merry and about halfway through getting
merry um the uh she was offered this interview
with eurosport or somebody but it was at the
eiffel tower or looking out over the eiffel tower
she was like oh i can't get there i can't get
there they'll send you a limo so they'll put
you in a limo drive you out there you'll get
interviewed by shauna coxie and and other olympians
and then they'll drive you back um and toby had
done it it's like yeah it's really good go for
it go for it So she was, I think, she hardly
ever drinks, but she was definitely semi under
the influence when she had to do that interview.
And then they put it on the big screen where
in GB House, they put it on the big screen so
we could watch it. And they'd obviously, she
never wears makeup, but they'd obviously put
makeup on there for this television appearance.
And she just looked bemused for the whole thing.
Like she went up in a lift and she walked through
this crowd of people who were all clapping her.
She's walking through going. what what's happening
but that was quite cool then she yeah then she
arrived back we uh we had some more food and
drink and then that was really really really
good and yeah really nicely i'd obviously never
experienced anything like that before but that
was quite nice quite a nice way i think for the
athletes to then celebrate with the the families
because you know you really don't get to see
them personally because they're always on another
side of a fence yeah Well, now that I know that
backstory, I think I would need to go back and
try to watch that again and see if I can see
that she's under the influence. Same with Toby,
I guess? Yeah, well, I'm not sure when he went
large on the alcohol fund. You were about to
say Shauna? I think Shauna did a lot of the talking
for Aaron. Which is lovely. I mean, Sean has
been absolutely fantastic to Aaron through the
whole sort of experience. Yeah, I hope I can
find that video again. I feel like I must have
watched it at some point, but now I really got
to find it. Yeah, I think it was Eurosport. If
I can remember it, I'll ping you. Yeah, I'll
try to find the link too. But if you find it,
let me know. So, yeah, I mean, you've watched
the sport evolve over time. Lots of variations
in setting. What do you think about the evolution
of setting? Like, does it ever scare you to watch
Erin throw herself around on dynamic boulders?
Or where do you draw the line in terms of danger?
Yeah, I don't really. I think injury is part
of most sports, isn't it? We went to a youth
European cup in Graz. And, you know, one of the
German guys who is now climbing on the World
Cup circuit broke his leg, like audibly broke
his leg. And I remember grabbing Erin and sort
of moving her away from it. But, you know, obviously
you get bad things like that happening if Natalia
sort of doing a ACL. um but i sort of think you
know that that that is the case with any elite
sport because you're right at the the cutting
edge of it um i so so in terms of the evolution
i guess it sort of had to evolve because i think
the you know the the athletes doing it just became
more and more focused on competition climbing
yes i think it sort of evolved from a people
who climb then doing competition climbing but
I think you've now got people who just really
focus on competition climbing and the rock climbing
is a side hustle if it's a hustle at all and
so the things which challenged at the early stages
of the sport just were not challenging I even
look at some of the lead routes where you sort
of see you look at it and you think my god look
there's a horrible crimp section in there and
they're resting on the crimps because their finger
strength is so strong they're sort of like oh
good this is a rest I could just lock in so yeah
I guess it had to evolve and it had to evolve
in ways with different sort of holds and macros
and volumes to force movement and to change movement
and body shape so yeah I think I sort of think
it had to evolve and actually i like the um you
know i think leads probably evolved or changed
less but even now yeah when you look at a lead
route now it's it's comprised of multiple sort
of sections um and you often snakes up rather
than go straight up um and it's you know you
still get the sort of power endurance routes
but they i'd argue they're generally the ones
which are topped a lot um whereas the ones with
sort of you know interest here more interesting
moves which either cause um you know concern
amongst the athletes or also attest them yeah
they're the ones where you get separation yeah
and so you know they're generally like you know
dinos in in lead routes i sort of think yeah
they set them relatively easily but it just adds
another element of stress to to the athletes
and so they might get it but they might have
expended a whole load of energy in getting it
or concern in getting it so yeah i sort of see
that and on the bolder side Yeah, you've always
had slabs and you've always had sort of an element
of power. Yeah, I think the two new ones are
coordinations and dynos. And I guess they were
sort of in there before. They've just become
a lot more intricate and you're no longer dynoing
to a jug. You're now dynoing to something which
is not ideal or you're having to grab a tow hook
in there whilst doing that. And again, I sort
of just see that as the evolution of the sport.
Look at the sort of diners they were doing two,
three years ago compared to what they're doing
now. They're a lot harder. Coordination moves
are a lot more intricate. It's just natural evolution,
isn't it? I think the no -text holds don't look
very pretty, but they can force a movement. I
like the dual -text. I think the dual -texts
are really clever and I think they look pretty,
but the clear holds, I don't think they look
pretty. but you know they add another element
but again most people have got to grips with
them now so they're not yeah they're sort of
nothing new so I suspect it has to continue to
evolve and I suspect it will continue to get
you know more intricate and harder for the athletes
but I actually like the fact that yeah you for
boulder in particular you'll test across a wide
range of skills so yeah just being good at power
or just being good at slab is highly unlikely
to get you into a you know into a semi -final
um because you have to be good at all sorts you
know the crimps the slopers the movements which
which you know i think is much better as a um
much better demonstration of being um you an
athlete in an elite sport an olympic sport and
something which is hopefully becoming more and
more um watchable um to the public so i like
that i also personally i like the combined format
i think that was really exciting i know it's
not there for the olympics but i uh for the next
olympics but i i actually thought that that the
the combined format made for a very exciting
competition and obviously you know favors people
who are good at both but uh it sort of added
some interesting elements of this person's really
good at lead and has had an okay boulder round
so they could actually jump up. Yeah, that's
actually quite a hot take among the community,
even among the athletes. So it's interesting
to hear that you like the combined. I mean, I
feel like part of it is maybe that Erin's pretty
good at both. I suspect that helps. Yeah. If
she was like a boulder lead specialist, I don't
know if you'd be saying the same thing. I probably
would not know. Actually, I don't mind the fact
that it's... two separate disciplines would have
been fantastic if they'd kept it as we've got
effectively a combined format but we will whoever
wins the boulder round will get a gold medal
for the boulder and whoever wins the lead will
get a lead gold medal and then we'll put the
two scores together and whoever wins both of
them will also get medals that would have been
fantastic but I think, yeah, the fact that we've
still got it at the Olympics and the fact that
we are getting more medals is great. It'd be
really interesting to see, well, to see what
the selection criteria are for the Olympics because
it's not very many athletes. And if you give
whatever 16 or to actually make up a proper speed
competition, I think it comes down to 11 or 10
for lead and 10 for boulder. So that's not a
very exciting competition. So you've sort of
got to try to find a way to say, well, We'd ideally
like people to do both because then we can at
least have 20 odd people and have a proper semi
-final format leading into a final. But I'm sure
they're thinking about that. Yeah, I think that's
info we're all waiting on. I mean, I would love
to see individual boulder and lead medals and
then also a combined medal. I think that would
be really cool to see. They do it in gymnastics,
don't they? Yeah, exactly. But also, going back
to safety in the sport, I'm just thinking about
the mat situation in Burn. Do you have any thoughts
on that one? Not massively. I mean, I thought
Bern was an amazing, yeah, I didn't go, but from
what I could see in the feedback I've had at
the venue, it sounded amazing. It was obviously
temperature controlled, really hot outside, but
okay inside. It takes away all the concern on
wind, rain, all that sort of stuff. And they
had, what, 4 ,000 odd people there. So that must
be one of the biggest audiences, if not the biggest
audience of any World Cup this year. yeah so
the venue itself I thought was fantastic setting
I'm bound to say this the setting was fantastic
it was the best Boulder World Cup ever and everyone
yeah okay yeah yeah in terms of the hardness
of the mats there was that one move of yes I
think Yuffie Pan hurt himself didn't he falling
and there was that one specific move and there
were some some hard falls it was a crazy move
I really liked it, but yeah. Yeah. It's really
hard, isn't it? I think the mats were hard, I
guess, because they were brand new. Yeah. It's
just really hard, isn't it? You sort of think,
what can you do? Do you mandate a softer mat?
And then you exclude a whole load of more venues
from being able to put on World Cups because
they've got to shell out. X amount of money for
these specific mats, which are going to be, you
know, probably not last for very long, um, because
they're softer, um, you know, more, more open
to damage or whatever. I, yeah, I don't know
the ins and outs of it. I, I, I do know the,
uh, some of the coaches who were appealing that
particular boulder. Um, yeah. And, and I do,
yeah, I sort of respect their, their, their views,
but yeah, I sort of. I almost sort of also go
down the line of, well, yeah, this is the sport.
Maybe it's more direct interaction with the route
setters to sort of say, is there any way we can
put that move lower or have it as a lower down
move? But I also think having them high up adds
another element of, I don't know, excitement
or commitment to the climbers. So you would not
have put in an appeal to... make it safer yeah
i personally wouldn't have but i i'm not you
know i'm not as uh i'm not as attuned maybe to
the risks that they may well have been seeing
sure yeah because some of the women took some
big hits as well i always think you know i i
love um watching zelia ramazu because i think
if there's a way for her to try to hit the wall
or fall off in a dangerous looking manner she'll
take it yeah she's she's amazingly committed
Okay, good to know. And yeah, congrats on her
performance in Burn. It was a good comp. I really
liked the Burn comp. Yeah, that was a good, well,
it seemed to be a good one. Okay, so let's get
into some of the audience questions. Had a good
few come in. People were really excited to hear
from you. So first one, how does having a comp
kit influence the family dynamic? Is it tricky
to balance, especially with more than one child?
So I thought it would be a lot trickier than
it actually is. So my son climbed pretty much
all the way up to university and then discovered
other things at university and then sort of got
back into climbing at the end of university.
And now he's probably training harder than he's
ever trained in his sort of life. I think he's
got a side hustle or side bet on with Aaron.
around going to the Nationals and seeing where
he could place. He's not going to win it. Sure.
The brutal honesty again. But yeah, I think he's
sort of thinking, well, I wonder if I could make
semis or that sort of level. Is that going to
be this year? I think it's in January. That's
when they tend to hold them. Can't wait to see
what happens. So that might be quite interesting
if he did. somehow make finals and get on the
team that would be an interesting dynamic but
yeah so so they've they've always gone really
well which which uh which i put down to great
parenting but i think in reality but i think
in reality it's because um we moved around a
lot as you know when they were young so obviously
lived in lots of different countries well quite
a few different countries and then in different
locations around the uk so they they sort of
had to rely on each other that you to get on
whilst they created new networks then as soon
as they created a network we ripped them out
of that and put them into something yeah made
them strong um but uh yeah for that reason they
seem to get on really well they both um they
both share a house in sheffield which i didn't
you know i thought that might not work that well
but that works really well awesome um you know
kind of whenever we can we'll run her around
to the various walls that she wants to go to
pick her up uh and then yeah we'll often train
with her whenever we can as well so weirdly yeah
there's absolutely no resentment he's he's probably
more invested in some ways than we are as parents
in what she's doing he does all of her sort of
you know social media and youtube content so
he's he sort of enjoy doing that with her um
yeah it's yeah i mean i did expect that there
might be a bit of um yeah resentment on what
she's achieved in climbing yeah and all that
sort of stuff but but they touch wood yeah nothing
yet and uh so yeah that's been really really
good and actually sort of helped out a lot in
terms of sharing some of the support burden burden
that's the wrong word support opportunities yeah
i mean it takes a village so that's really nice
to hear So this is a question from another parent.
How do you balance celebrating podiums so that
it doesn't place too much emphasis on good results
equals good vibes? Because maybe that results
in pressure to perform. And then balance it with
also seeing bad results as being valuable. Yeah,
so that's a really hard one, isn't it? No matter
what level they're... performing at because you
sort of want them to do well for them. So, yeah,
I think with Erin, she went through a phase where
she was moving from sort of doing the fun competitions
to moving into the sort of more focused on nationals
and internationals and all that sort of stuff.
And obviously she had to place highly in order
to qualify for the teams and then highly in order
to get selection for the World Cups and European
Cups. So, yeah, I guess we focused on what she
needed to do in order to place in those positions.
But also, if she didn't, it wasn't the end of
the world. Yeah, we can go away. We can work
on the areas of development. um and uh yeah let's
see what happens the the following year um i
yeah so i think that the key bit i would say
is that you are constantly looking at if you
win that's great but but almost in the nicest
possible way you sort of got to forget that and
say okay so so you won but what could you do
better or what didn't you do as well as you could
have done So there's a great moment where you're
celebrating and then there's a moment where you're
actually looking at how you did that and what
you could have done better. I also think there's
a challenge, and this might actually come down
to one of your earlier questions around not so
much the parent culture, probably more the athlete
culture. So when you start to flip into a World
Cup, so one, you've got a selection event in
January. But if you've pre -qualified, so I think
most of the governing bodies have pre -qualification
criteria. So, you know, by winning a World Cup,
you pre -qualify. So Erin's pre -qualified. She
has to go to the selection event, but she's already
selected. Oh, okay. So, yeah, I'm assuming like
Brooke Rapparty was probably pre -qualified by
placing where she did in the Olympics. So she
probably still had to go to selection, but she
was already selected. So certainly that's how
it works in the UK. So if you... I think here,
if you pre -qualify, then you don't compete.
Oh, right, okay. So we still, well, yeah, they
still want you to go, I think because it shows
everybody where the potential level is. But you
don't have to perform. So she's not peaking for
those competitions at all. And then, you know,
as you, in the UK, you tend to have a few competitions.
I call them fun competitions, but they're like
the Climbing Works International Festival. I
think it's called QUIF and Plywood Masters. So
they're good pre -season comps, which are really
hard comps. And they operate on a qualification,
semifinals, final basis. But a lot of people
use those as a benchmark to see where they are.
But obviously, if you're focused, because you
know you've got the World Cup, if you're actually
focusing on peaking in April, you're not really
going to peak for them either. So she sort of
struggled a bit with, I'm going to go to this
competition and I might not win it, even though
theoretically I should. And then I think you
do start to get a bit of expectation because
you've got somebody saying, oh, yeah, they're
not going to say this to your face, but I beat
Erin. And then, yeah, she's like, oh. i don't
want to do these competitions anymore yeah it's
no fun but actually they still have value because
it's it's sort of showing you where you are even
though you might still be in the middle of a
horrible training block and absolutely knackered
um so yeah so i think that was the other one
in terms of yeah podium is podiuming isn't everything
and and we certainly don't still say to you go
and win another gold medal or you make sure you
get to the finals we're like you know if you
climb well there's no reason why you shouldn't
get there but the margins are so fine um you
know a simple mistake somewhere doesn't make
you a bad climber but does mean that we should
be analyzing results and stuff whether you win
or not um and then the other one i think is that
that flip to you know winning you're winning
everything locally to actually i may not be winning
this because and you These people might be peaking
for their GB selection. Some of those athletes
are absolutely peaking for that because it's
the competition they have to perform at to get
on the team. Whereas at that time, you're probably
at your weakest. You've had two months of intense
training. You've probably not really had much
of a break before going into the competition.
So you're absolutely not peaking for it. You're
just going to it and sort of accepting that that
may well mean you don't win it. Yeah. So I guess
just being realistic and as honest with yourself
as you can. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Hopefully
that advice helps out. um this one is a bit more
of a fun one do you get final approval of the
shots of yourself on youtube no i get i get no
i don't even know that i don't even know they're
filming half the time i'm gonna need some context
for this but this person said i'm specifically
thinking of you pretending to ride a horse and
getting caught by some random passerby i don't
i don't know this one yeah you have to Have you
ever seen Monty Python and the Quest for the
Holy Grail? No, I actually haven't. So they,
obviously they're Arthurian knights, but they
don't have horses. They just literally pretend
that they're riding a horse. And generally they
have somebody with coconut shells following them
to make the clippy cloppy noises. But I think
it was in Innsbruck and we were walking down
to get coffee. And yeah, I sort of thought there
was this lovely bridge which looked a bit medieval.
So I thought, oh, let's ride our horses across
the bridge. And they were obviously there. Then
as I rode off, they put their phones on. Then
when they caught up to me on the other side,
I had to suddenly pretend to dismount my horse
because there was a random stranger walking the
other way looking quite concerned. I'll have
to find this clip. It was an Innsbruck. Yeah,
I think it's the Quest for the 8C. Ah, perfect.
Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah.
But I'm on, yeah. And they'll film when I'm not
even aware. It's very, yeah. And so there's one,
yeah. Lots of times when I'm not even aware they're
filming and then I'll watch it later and I'll
be like, oh, thanks. Thanks for putting that
in. You watch all the videos? Well, yeah. I don't
get to see any of the... yeah the prep or what's
going in and what's coming out but i yeah they
that they they generally tell me when they're
out and then yeah me and lindsey will sit down
with a cup of tea and watch oh that's cute we
won't understand half of the humor and the brain
and all that sort of stuff that's fine but apparently
it's funny yeah yeah yeah no that's cute um okay
and let's do one last one um This is all in good
fun, but how does it feel to be a worse climber
than your child? Or if you had any other competitive
goals of your own? I don't know when it happened,
when they overtook me. They both overtook me.
I guess I was probably quite happy. I certainly
wasn't disappointed. And it probably happened
slowly. they would overtake me on slabs and then
you know and then gradually on the more powerful
boulders and and that sort of stuff they've always
been much better than me on lead just because
of my i have to grip everything as hard as i
can right before i'm super pumped about halfway
up um so yeah so that that that wasn't so bad
the one which was a bit galling was um When my
son stopped climbing, I got better than him again.
And I was doing quite a lot of, I was probably
climbing maybe four times a week at that point
because I was working a lot with Aaron or going
to a lot of stuff with Aaron. And then I broke
my thumb really badly in Innsbruck. How? Oh,
yeah, you shouldn't ask that question. I just
leave it. I broke my thumb in Innsbruck and it
sounds cool. I actually did it running to catch
the bus. I fell over, wanted to catch the bus.
Yeah, really upsetting. Yeah. And then they set
it and then they called me up the next day and
said, no, this is much worse than we thought.
We're going to have to come in and reset it.
And that's horrible. I wouldn't recommend this
to anybody, but they took me in and they sort
of said, oh, you know, we're going to break it
again. You're not under, your arms sort of, you
can't feel anything in your arm, but you can
look. So I was looking at them thinking, oh,
why would you look at that? And they got a hammer
and like a chisel thing out. And I looked away
then. I don't want to watch that. But that was
all like pinned up for a while. And at that point,
I was really, I was climbing quite hard for me.
Yeah, probably on the second hardest grade in
most of the climbing walls. Wow, really? And
then whilst I took ages to recover. And whilst
I was recovering, my son started climbing again.
And by the time I got back to it, it was better
than me. So that was the only galling one because
I thought I could have probably had a few more
bragging rights for a bit longer if I'd actually
been fit. Yeah, that's it. No other goals. I'm
just happy nowadays to sort of keep the aches
and sprains. manageable so yeah wow it sounds
like you climb pretty hard whole family climbs
pretty hard um what grade would you say you climb
now uh i didn't know the v grades sure so i'd
say v6 sometimes v7 very occasionally but v5
that's nice and easy not nice and easy but i
can happily happily do most of those All right.
Good to know. Yeah, I think that wraps it up
then. That's all the questions I had. Thanks
for joining me. And any like last minute thoughts
you want to get out there? No, I think the only
thing I'd say as a parent is I think, yeah, well,
one, keep it fun as long as you possibly can.
And then if they really are. serious about making
it or taking it to the next level uh yeah sort
of try to find a way to support them in that
but but i mean i still think the brutal honesty
bit is is absolutely required because i think
they've got to agree to that commitment as much
as you've got to then sort of say well how how
can i support you to get where you need to get
but i'm only going to do that if you're 100 committed
to it as well um yeah so if you've not got any
interest in committing to this training plan
and committing to this time and not having the
sort of social life which you might want at that
age, then there's no point in me committing my
time either. So I do think there's a bit of sort
of brutal honesty or at least feedback at some
point if one party isn't fully committing to
it. Amazing advice. Thank you so much. um anything
else you want to shout out or i don't know if
you're very active on social media if there's
like i'm i'm not at all that's it all right well
then just thank you so much for joining me um
it was really good to get that insight um yeah
very unique perspective so it was great thank
you so much no problem cheers Thank you so much
for making it to the end of the podcast. Don't
forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed.
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