To be honest, back in those days, training like
a caveman, it was super fun. I love it. Speed
in Spain was not developed at all. Like, I came
here in 2017 to Madrid specifically because they
built there the first wall in 2017. Of course,
at the same time, I was training. With who? With
nobody. How? Alone. Everybody thinks that we
don't get injuries. fingers but no we get the
same welcome to another episode of the that's
not real climbing podcast i'm your host Jinni
and i'm excited to introduce my guest for today
Erik Noya if you're not familiar eric is an accomplished
speed climber from spain In this episode, we'll
learn about how politics destroyed climbing in
Venezuela, what it was like starting over with
life and training in Spain, injuries in speed
climbing, and we'll get his thoughts on other
speed climbing formats like relays and yearly
route changes. I hope you enjoy this episode
with Erik. Real quick, I'm excited to announce
my new sponsor helping make this podcast episode
possible, Mad Rock Climbing. I got fitted with
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the D2 .1s. They just came out December 6th,
but you might notice a few of your favorite gomp
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sizing, and you can use the discount code NOTREALCLIMBER
for 10 % off your entire MedRock order. Info
will be in the description. Back to the show.
How are you doing today? Did you like train today
earlier? I know you mentioned. showering so yeah
I'm fine thank you yeah I went to the gym this
morning I had a upper body session and yeah then
I ate at the same facility where I train it's
like a facility that we have here in Barcelona
so I ate there then I went to the market I bought
a couple of stuff then came home shower and now
I'm here Is this like a training center kind
of thing or is it just like a regular gym? No,
it's like a specialized facility for athlete
training and development, especially for Olympic
athletes. So it's like a sponsorship, but that's
the way. That's an easy way to see it, but it's
a sponsorship that we have the athletes here
in Spain. So we can go to a super cool facility
without paying some extra money. And yeah, there
we have for eating, we have physiotherapy, we
have, of course, the gym and even the sports
inside. We have the climbing gym. uh the the
climbing wall sorry but it was rented so uh now
we don't have it but as you can see uh it's a
very cool facility to to train and there is the
possibility to live and i lived there one year
oh and now i have another spot yeah it's like
a um crazy training spot We have like three in
Spain, this big. Wow. And it's a methodology.
Why'd you move out? Sounds like a great place
to live. I moved out because I wanted to live
alone and because I started a relationship with
someone. So it was not possible for her to live
with me in this facility. So I decided to go
out with her. Okay. That's a fair reason, I guess.
yeah yeah so yeah let's just get into how you
started climbing and competing um and also one
of the instagram questions that came in was what
inspired you about speed climbing specifically
oh that's so nice um well i started climbing
when i was eight years old uh the first time
i tried was in a birthday party uh with a friend
but it was very special because yeah but This
time it was in the rocks. So my first time climbing,
it wasn't an indoor gym. It was an outdoor. Yeah,
it was outdoor. So that was super nice. For me,
I felt amazing. I loved it. And the feeling I
got is that it was very easy for me. And the
other kids were a bit scared or it was like difficult
to do the moves. And for me, climbing was like
very intuitive. So I liked that everyone was
like, oh, I think you did good. I cheered and
stuff. And I like it. But I was very small. So
it was like only one time. But then my mom was
skipping traffic in the hometown where I grew
up. And we went on a different way. we are not
used to and i saw a climbing gym i had no idea
that we had a climbing gym in my hometown so
i told my mom like okay i want to do that and
um she was like not so happy because she's a
little bit afraid of heights and i had to beg
her like for one week and then after So many
days pushing like, please, mom, take me there.
I would love to try. She said like, OK, let's
go there. And I tried and it was like love at
first sight. I just fell in love with the sport,
with the environment. I came from swimming, which
is a very competitive environment. And then I.
uh ended up in this climbing gym where everybody
was so friendly they wanted to help me and um
i don't know it was like uh home it felt like
home to be honest like the same feeling when
you got with your kids at the school but while
doing a sport you know so that was kind of a
nice feeling and that's how i started basically
and then when did you start doing competitions
well in this gym Like they had this philosophy
where you do all three disciplines, like speed
and boulder. So you had a speed wall there? No,
because I was like eight years old. Like there
wasn't even official speed lanes and everything.
The speed competitions were on site. It was like
you went to a isolation zone. This is very funny.
You went to isolation zone, then you had like
six minutes to read the route and then you started
racing. So it was a different sport because like
you had to adapt on every round. And of course,
you have to read the route, how you're going
to jump and stuff. Then you have to adapt on
each round and improve the... the method, so
to speak, to be faster. And that was very, very
fun. It was the old school kind of competitions.
Yeah. The speed route started in 2007. Okay.
Yeah. And it arrived to Venezuela like two years
before that. So imagine, I touched that route
when I was 15. or 16 years so yeah did you always
feel most inspired by speed climbing then or
were you more interested in bouldering or lead
no i had the same passion for all of them like
for me when when i was a kid it was like everything
kind of the same different but the same it was
climbing and i had fun doing all of them for
me speed climbing i felt always uh more competition
on it and uh that was nice you know when you
are growing up racing with your friends that
was very funny and i loved that um also i had
bigger influences that went out to competitions
and did pretty good in international competitions
and uh for me that was a lesson that's something
i learned that i could travel around the world
um competing and um Like I saw that environment
since little, since I was starting to grow in
the climbing community. So I saw an opportunity
there. But I had the same passion for boulder
and leap. And I trained them very hard too. Just
that then to international, for going to international
competitions, it was easier to. Or we were better
in general in speed than in lead and bouldering.
Of course, the competitive level in Venezuela
was very different than the competitive level
in Europe. So we get usually more fundings with
speed than with lead and bouldering. But that
was back in Venezuela, of course. Here in Spain,
it's a different story. It's just the opposite,
which is very interesting. But I think I'm a
very particular case because, yeah, I have been
in touch with all three disciplines since I started
to do climbing. And yeah, I only stopped doing
boulder and lead five or six years ago. Maybe
when I started to compete like super, super hard,
something like that. But until then, I did all
three. And yeah, that was kind of a resume of
my speed climbing history. Then in terms of competition,
I saw you only started competing in IFSC in 2019.
So at that point, I guess you were like 25 around
that time. Um, why did it take you so long to
start like competing internationally? I think
in the, I'm not sure if this, uh, still like
this, I guess. Yes. But if you go to the ISCC,
there is two profiles of Eric Noia, one for Venezuela
and one for Spain. So you probably went to the,
uh, Spanish profile, but. You can go to the Venezuelan
profile and there are also some results. So,
yeah, I started competing since very, very young
age. Like I said, in this gym, I don't know,
like the philosophy was, yes, learn to climbing
and have fun and everything. But it was also
like for going to competition. It was very, very
different than nowadays. big climbing gyms. This
was a super, super small spot. We call it the
caves. It was a super dark place with super old
holes. So it was a very different story than
we know from climbing and competitions from these
days. So I remember I was probably like nine.
or 10 years when I did my first competition like
I started climbing and six months after I was
already competing it was like super youth competitions
and I had to go with older people than me because
in my category there was no one or they were
new people so it wasn't fair so yeah I started
very very young And because of that, I like normalized
competing. I started to have fun with it and
I just didn't leave the competitions. And once
again, for me, traveling around Venezuela first
was... Very nice for me was an adventure with
all my friends, knowing all the people, climbers
from other regions from Venezuela. That was very
fun for me. And I wanted to keep doing it. And
I did. I started then doing international competitions
when I was 15 years old. And actually, that was
my first international competition. No, wait,
wait, wait a second. I don't know if I went to...
some South American Cup before this IFSC Youth
World Championships I'm not sure I'm not sure
if I had some regional in South America before
this but like the first event or the first major
event for the IFSC that I remember was the Youth
World Championships in Valence France Back in
2000, I don't know when, I was 15 years old.
And that was the first time I touched it like
a speed route with the official speed holds.
It wasn't the official route because it was too
hard still for the youths. But it was my first
international competitions with the hold. And
I remember that I moved before this competition
two months to another region in Venezuela. Because
there was the official route. So we wanted to
start training it. Did you move in 2019 then?
No, I moved to Spain in 2017. I moved in 2017.
I did my first national competition in 2018.
And actually, that was the first national competition
in Spain with the official route as well. And
I won that competition. That was the first time
I was Spanish champion. Oh, congrats. Yeah. 2018.
Thank you. Ending 2018. And yeah, then in 2019,
because of this competition, I started to go
to my first international competitions with Spain.
And I guess what was the purpose of the move?
I think Venezuela was in a very dire situation.
And like in political, economical, society terms.
And I wasn't having fun. I wanted new things
for me and I wanted to have a better quality
life and to, I don't know, try to succeed, you
know? But this country was very hard to succeed,
especially in climbing. So I decided to move.
I don't really... understand what the situation
was like in Venezuela at the time. Can you just
give a brief overview of, I guess, what was going
on? Yeah, sure. Well, first of all, this is a
very personal point of view. My people might
disagree about this. But yeah, once again, this
is an opinion. For me, in Venezuela, we had a
dictatorship. The first one was Hugo Chavez,
and then the second one was Nicolas Maduro, just
after Chavez died. They were using all the resources
from this country to stay in the power. And believe
me, that's a lot of resources. These guys had
a lot of oil, diamonds, gold, I don't know, whatever.
there are even evidence that they were trafficking
with drugs so they just did everything to keep
in power and one of the goals was make the other
people poor so it was easier for them to keep
in the power so they just centralized everything
and destroyed whatever didn't make them stay
in power so like imagine a society with no rules
and with no economic growth and stuck in the
past you know so like as a climber there were
there was for at least for me okay this is personal
maybe other regions other people Had a different
story. But my story was that I didn't get a lot
of funding from climbing. It was very hard to
leave from climbing. Also, we didn't go to a
lot of competitions. It was very hard to compete.
So at a certain point, I was training for nothing.
And I hated that. I also felt that I had level.
And when you are young, you have a lot of power.
Somehow I lost that time. I don't think I lost
it, sorry. I think that just I moved everything
a little bit further. But yeah, sometimes I think
about that, especially watching about the kids
that now are pushing so hard on the competitions.
I think about myself and I say, wow, what if
I was there all the time? Maybe the story, Would
have been different. Nobody knows. But once again,
that was one of the problems of living in Venezuela.
So imagine a sporting institution, corrupt, centralized.
We weren't an Olympic sport. So it was very hard
for climbing. But also it was very hard for living
in general. Like all the industry got destroyed.
Like, you have to be with them or you have to
be fucked. So I decided that I didn't want to...
I wanted new things. I wanted to live a little
bit of an adventure. New moments for me in my
life. And I decided to move. And it was crazy
because... Yeah, I saw that everything was going
bad with climbing. So I said, okay, let me focus
with my studies. I continue with my economics
career. But then I realized that I, and I stopped
climbing. Like I stopped climbing for a couple
of years. Then I realized that I wasn't happy
with my life there. So I said, okay, I'm going
to Spain. Why Spain? Because my dad. My dad's
roots are Spanish. So I have the Spanish passport
since I was born because my dad was born in Vigo,
which is a city, a port city near to Portugal.
So there is a lot that I am Spanish. Okay. So
I had also some family here in Madrid. And this
was the first family where I went to. I call
them my saviors. This is, of course, exaggerated,
but I appreciate them so much because they opened
to me the doors of their home when I was in this
situation. So for me, these people is my family.
It's my godmother. So, yeah, basically, that's
what... Having the passport and having family,
of course, was the main reason to move to Spain.
And then... When I arrived, I wasn't sure what
to do with my life. I was a little bit lost,
to be honest. Like, I don't know, continue with
my economic career. I didn't know what to do.
I even started to learn and to prepare some proof
to be fighter fighter here in Spain. It's like
a very good job opportunity here. So I decided
to try. I didn't know what to do. But, you know,
climbing for me has been always a pain reliever,
not only physically. Actually, physically, it
only led me with a lot of pain. But for my soul,
it has been always like a pain reliever. So,
I don't know, I have been related to sports always.
So, for me, I just have never stopped. doing
sports and moving my body is something that I
really enjoy that I really like it's very important
for me so I just came here and while I was looking
what is Eric Noya I was keep climbing and doing
sport so That's when I ended up Spanish champion.
Then I knew people here that wanted to start
to do something with speed because speed in Spain
was not developed at all. Like I came here in
2017 to Madrid specifically because they built
there the first wall in 2017. Like imagine, that's
very, very old for me, like zero. I came from
a country that did a lot of stuff for speed.
And we had a decent development. And yeah, everything
went to hell. But like Spain, Mecca for climbing,
having zero for speed was very impressive for
me. So anyways, I started going into this climbing
world, the first in Spain. And some people of
the Madrid Federation. wanted to to learn about
it of course and then some kids were interested
and yeah so i started to be involved with the
speed climbing scene here in spain and then what
i yeah what i just told before then 2018 spanish
champion and then i started slowly very very
slowly to get every time more involved into everything
and of course the the biggest change of my life
and everything was Moscow 2021 when I ended up
second in the world championships of official
Olympic sport. That was like the main change
of everything. And I guess I'm kind of surprised
about I guess like how much investment Venezuela
had in like speed climbing and climbing in general
because we just don't really see them that much
on the international circuit. Yes. That's crazy.
Okay, I'm very happy that you say this because
maybe it's about time to, I don't know, tell
the story. But back in those days, Venezuela
was a very, very strong country. I can easily
say that in South America, we were the strongest.
Maybe Ecuador, we... could argue with me and
yeah maybe i'm wrong but ecuador and venezuela
were the strongest okay so uh our scene was very
nice very intense and we we had this like soviet
approach you know where the scene the indoor
scene was very competitive and we went even to
international competitions they this First generation
gave us a lot of funding. People that went and
won the rock masters. I don't know if you remember
this competition in Arco. Those were very important
achievements and they just not increased the
budget, but they were also a reference for me.
You know, I saw this when I was eight years old.
that generation that made me so we own them very
much and it was a very very important generation
because i'm not a isolated case you have the
leslie case which is also competing for spain
comes from venezuela and she went even to the
olympics she had an olympic diploma she's also
from from this school this generation so even
I don't remember the exact year, but beginning
of 2000, Venezuela was traveling with a delegation
of 20 athletes or something like that. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah. And for many years, we had
in San Juan de los Morros the best facility in
South America. Easy, easy, easy. Yeah, I remember
that when we went to Pan Americans. Our biggest
competition was Ecuadorians and USA, of course.
So especially in Burle and Lid, in Speed, we
were, I don't want to brag, but we were very
good. I think we had a lot of Russian -Chinese
influence, maybe, or the fundings for doing results.
And so I guess like what happened since then?
You think just like the lack of funding that
eventually... Yes, of course. Like this big political
chaos just went to all the layers from the society
and the economy. And like they spent all the
money like crazy. So at a certain point, we were
able to do some... trips and some competitions
which are the ones that you see in my old profile
but then suddenly everything stopped like they
centralized so much the power that they changed
the laws of sport so they can keep with the heads
of all the federations or from many federations
in Venezuela so we didn't have or own organizations,
so to speak, in a certain period. And of course,
this period was pure darkness, no internal federation,
so we had no competitions, no money, no organization
at all. It was like a black hole for Venezuela.
To be honest, I don't know how is the situation
now 100%, but I know that... They are trying
to rebuild everything. And there is a team now
working to put all the pieces again together.
And we saw them for the first time last year,
I think, in some World Cups. And this year, they
want to join also in a couple of World Cups.
So I'm very happy about it. But it was like that.
Like, we had a peak. We were nice there. And
then... geez so it wasn't like a slow deterioration
it was just like immediately one day just from
my from my point of view it was slow but in a
history period it was like this quick of course
because i grew up i went to some competitions
and then okay i saw a little bit my my friends
going to competitions whatever but then when
i was 16, 17, then they didn't take us to international
competitions. And then 2000, no, sorry, 2014,
no competitions. Then 2015, no national competitions.
2016, complete darkness. 2017, I said, screw
this, you know? So it was like... Every year
a little worse, worse, worse, worse, worse. And
then suddenly it was nothing. It was nothing
anymore. Crazy because I still went to the climbing
gym, of course. And I kept climbing. I kept watching
my friends. Many of them started to flee. And
that was a sign for me. Like, okay, everybody's
leaving. And then many friends also were doing
good outside. climbing jobs or different from
climbing or something related with ropes and
heights but everyone was striving so for me that
was a sign that I had to do it as well and it
was the best decision ever I should have taken
it way before to be honest but oh yeah it's hard
to move so it's very hard to move yeah yeah and
I trusted also like a change in Venezuela so
I fought for it and I was living very nice with
my family and I loved the environment there so
it was a lot of attachment and yeah it was hard
for me to to let go but but yeah after everything
happened I think that I should have moved before
way before yeah How was the move to Spain? I
think that was another Instagram question that
came in just in terms of daily life and training.
Yes, I arrived to my godmother house and like
you get a pension. I don't know how to say that.
Like when you retire. A pension, yeah. A pension,
right? Like I got a smaller pension and it's
called. The translation would be like pension
del emigrante retornado. It's like foreigners
that come back pension. Oh, okay. I see. So I
received like a little funding. With this, I
paid a gym to go to training, but like a normal
lifting gym. And I made contact with the Federation
of Madrid. thanks to a friend that was living
in Madrid. And they wanted to know me. And we
did a first session. Once again, that was the
first time they were watching the speed route.
So suddenly, a guy from Venezuela comes, and
he knows about the route. And I started climbing
there. They saw it, and they liked it. And this
person from the Madrid Federation, who... nowadays
funny story is the vice president of the spanish
federation she wanted to teach the kids and to
have a team of speed in madrid so she said to
me like okay eric first join the team of course
we want you to compete for madrid and give some
lessons to the kid so um i got passes to the
gym thanks to the federation of madrid and And
I started to give classes one day of a month
to the Madrid Federation. And I was using the
funds that I received from the government to
study for the firefighter academy. But at a certain
point, this pension, of course, it's over. So
that's when I start to work in a proper climbing
gym. And yeah, I stopped to do the firefighter
stuff. Like I did the test to get in. I didn't
approve. It is very hard. It's very competitive.
So I said like, okay, I don't know later, but
I need to win money. So I started to work in
a climbing gym. That was like the first big step
to become a 100. percent climbing related uh
worker and living by living person okay so yeah
i started to do some some day uh some certain
day classes uh for a gym whatever working with
kids i did everything what you cannot imagine
like watching holds everything oh yeah giving
food everything and um Then working also with
the Spanish Federation and training. Of course,
at the same time, I was training. With who? With
nobody. How? Alone. Wow. There is a super funny
story. The little kids wanted to do speed climbing,
but they had classes once a month. Or I pushed
them to go for free to train with me so I could.
climbed as well and so they had like extra classes
but then it was another day of the week you know
from from this whole month but of course i wanted
to train every day so uh i was pushing everyone
to to to train let's go to speed whatever and
then just a little guy showed up he weighed like
i don't know 18 pounds 18 kilograms 20 kilograms
whatever The story is that he was climbing and
then, you know, I needed to train so much that
I accepted to climb with this little boy. So
he started climbing. I was belaying him and everything
was fine. But then we switched. And when he belayed
me, we did like a flag. Like I started to go
down and he started to wait up. Yeah. Then he
had to go to rappel down with the... It was like...
Now I'm telling the story and it sounds... But
in that moment, it was so crazy. And then, you
know, it's those stories of the daily struggle
that I had to do what I love the most or what
I like the most. That is speed climbing and training.
You know, that was the environment for me for
those days to train in Spain. That was like the
beginning. It's super hilarious. Of course, it
makes me so proud that now we have a proper speed
climbing team and everything and training center
and everything. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, of course.
You have to do what you have to do. Yeah, yeah.
But it was super slow start and so small steps,
you know, that it's crazy. Yeah, I do kind of
wonder like where you would be if you had like
the training center from the start. Yeah, I imagine.
And the same resources. That would have been
crazy. And from moment one, you know, wow. Yes.
And then I guess for those who aren't super familiar
with like speed climbing training, how does it
differ from boulder elite training? Is there
like anything unexpected that you feel like you
do as a speed climber? Something unexpected?
No, I don't think so. Actually, the opposite.
Like it's because and that's. the difference
between boulder and lead and speed that we train
on the same route now that changed the whole
history of the sport and of course the history
of the training so that's why you don't expect
anything new because you just go to the same
route every day but to be honest for me every
day is a challenge and it's different because
even though it's the same route You always have
to improve something. So that's the part that
it's very, very alike from boulder and leap,
I think. Do you prefer that? Like having to make
these tiny little increments on the same route
every time? Yes, sure. Of course. I love it.
It's super fun. It makes it challenging and,
of course, different every time. You know, it's,
to be honest, it's the part that it's most related
to climbing than just going there and do X amount
of repetitions. That's the point of view that
lead and boulder climbers many times don't understand
that we are also improving in terms of climbing
on every training. It's not like going there
and just climb the route. Was there ever a point
where you just didn't know how to improve? Or
is there always stuff in the back of your mind
of little changes you need to make to make your
time better? No. Back in those days, I had no
idea how to improve. Back in those days, it was
going up as fast as you can. It was a different
story. It was super... caveman way of training
of approach of everything so yeah of course you
try to change some stuff to climb faster and
better but we had no idea how to do it it was
all intuitive but now from I don't know one a
couple of years from now there have been a huge
change and the training have been changing and
now I think we know how we should do it. That's
probably also making the biggest change in terms
of times in the circuit. And that also makes,
like, it's the biggest reason why we see so many
young people thriving so fast because they are
getting the most advanced and the most developed
training methodologies for this discipline. And
I think that's so interesting, so amazing. And
I'm so happy about it. And from all those times
in the past where you were just running up the
wall like a caveman and not really focusing on
any particular technique, do you feel like you...
picked up any bad bad habits from doing that
that are hard to break because i feel like you
practice something a bunch of times maybe you
practice it the wrong way it gets way harder
to fix that since you've done it a bunch of times
that way yeah definitely and that's actually
something uh that's something with that i'm struggling
with even nowadays like i have to fix All the
things from my past in order to keep up the pace
of the circuit and of the younger generation
that is coming. But I want to say, I want to
be honest, back in those days, training like
a caveman, it was super fun. I love it. Once
again, the climbing community is always so nice.
I don't regret it. Like it was super, that was
delicious anyway. Okay, good to hear. Nowadays,
having to fix all my, sorry, but having to fix
all my shit, it has been also a blast. It's super
fun. So I think it's very, very cool that all
this happened to me and it's somehow kind of
the process and this made me connect with the
people. with the climbers from Spain and with
the community here. And I think that's a huge
privilege, you know? And also give me the opportunity
of strive despite my age, you know? Because I'm
already what we can call a mature climber in
the circuit. Good way to put it, yeah. Yeah,
so... But knowing that I still can improve something
on the technique that can make me improve my
times, it's a bit of a good sign for me, of course.
Yeah, what are some of the bad habits you're
trying to break? Wow, I fix many. For example,
on the middle of the route, the skip from hole
number 8 to hole number 10. I was doing like
a weird S move because we didn't match on hole
11. We usually went to left. So before we went
to far right on this skip and then we jumped
to the left to grab both holes. But now these
both holes doesn't exist. And we know that we
have moved more straight. So like to make a resume
for the people that doesn't understand what we're
doing on the... to be more user -friendly, so
to speak. Basically, I was doing like a snake,
like a lizard while climbing. And now we know
that we have to try to keep it up straight. So
basically, I'm changing all my movements, all
my muscle memory, which is the hard part, to
make a correct movement. It's like I knew how
to dance, but now I have to learn how to proper
dance or to change the moves to make it better,
so to speak. And yeah, I was a good dancer. So
now you change me all the moves and it's been
weird, but it's a fun challenge once again. What's
one that you're working on right now to break?
Oh, the top section. Top section is my nightmare.
If you compare me with the rest of the circuit
in general, in all the competitions, it's very
easy to see that I'm very fast at the beginning.
And then at the middle, they catch up. And at
the end, they smash me. So I got to keep up until
the end. Okay. What's the issue at the top? Is
it a technique thing or you get like tired? Yeah,
no, I think it's, it's technique wise more like
once again, I'm going to more like I'm going
too much to the left side. No, I'm going too
much to the right side. And then that makes me
do a move to the left side. So my gravity. my
mass gravity center is moving to left and right
so much that makes the moves even harder and
um and of course it takes me more time but then
you say like okay but correctly well because
breaking these habits or understanding these
moves is not that easy like i promise you i have
thought about it i have dream about it i do it
constantly and 24 7 with these moves in my mind
and sometimes i wake up and i said like okay
i dreamed about it or i imagine this move and
i'm going to the wall i know how to do it and
i will do it and then i just go and it doesn't
happen like that oh i totally get that yeah so
it's crazy it might sound crazy but it's the
way it is it's the process like if it would be
so easy everybody would be doing four or five
right now Yeah, no, that totally makes sense.
I think all climbers can relate. You think about
yourself climbing it. You think you have a great
idea. And you're like, I'm going to go do that
tomorrow. And then it just doesn't work at all.
And you're like, oh, this is why. Exactly, exactly.
You end in the same loop from the day before
where you didn't understand anything. Yes. So,
I mean, you're still definitely improving. You
had some really great personal runs and, yeah,
like, personal bests. Even in, like, OQS earlier
this – or, wow, I guess it's not this year anymore.
Last year. Yeah. Yeah, you had, like, really
great personal bests in OQS, but you didn't manage
to secure a big spot there. What are your thoughts
reflecting on that time? Please excuse this brief
intermission, but if you're interested in deleted
scenes from this episode where we talk about
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Back to the show. To be honest, I gave it all.
I tried with all my heart. I was disciplined.
I think that I did all that was in my hands even
more. And I don't know if this was the reason
why I didn't make it or maybe I have no idea,
but I put everything on stake and I did an all
-in. So I think that was brave of my side. I
think that I fought it very hard and that it
wasn't easy to kick me out. Like the people who
kicked me out, they had to fight it. with their
teeth. So, of course, I'm proud of that. And
for me, it was an amazing experience. So I'm
very grateful, to be honest, of everything, even
of the outcome. I learned a lot of this process.
So I would give it a 9 out of 10 because I didn't
qualify, of course. I leave it with a lot of
passion. And I think that was the goal of it.
Okay. I mean, you still... Next time, qualifying.
Yeah, hopefully. You still continued competing
right after that. You didn't really take any
break after OQS, did you? Yeah, I only missed
one competition that I really didn't want to
go. It was the same weekend of the... which was
a little bit crazy. But yeah, then I started
again because I think that life is like this.
Not much to add, to be honest. Life is like this.
You just keep going and sometimes you win, sometimes
you lose. But my family still loves me. When
I go to the gym, the people I care are still
there. The people that I like are still with
me. So for me, in the end, that's going to be
always very important and I still have it. So
it will be very selfish not to think about them,
you know, when something bad happens with the
climbing. Is that like your motivation, you would
say? Because I can only imagine it must be very
hard to... I don't know, find the drive to get
back into things or when you're feeling kind
of burnt out or you work for something for so
long. I mean, like I knew that it was a possibility
not to qualify. So I thought about it before,
like, okay, what if I don't? Well, if I don't,
I don't. So I think when it happened, it was
a shock for me. But then I was able also to process
everything kind of fast. At the same moment,
I have other stuff that motivated me. Changes
in terms of coaches, of Federation stuff, in
terms of life, in terms of many things. So that
made me also push. I was curious about what was
their future. bring it to me so i try to focus
more on that than other stuff and also at the
same time i lost a huge amount of money because
not qualifying to the olympics so i have to solve
other problems okay rather that and keep thinking
that i i didn't qualify yeah okay that makes
sense yeah the uh the money issue is always that's
always a big one Exactly, exactly. But also,
something that happened, I want to tell you this
because for me nowadays, this is the highlight
of the fact that I kept pushing. I didn't understand
it in that moment. But then we had a competition
in Madrid, the first four -lane format event.
We have a new coach now in Spain. To make the
story short, it was the first time the coach
was meeting the athletes from Spain to present
himself and whatever. And they said to him that
for them it was very impressive and it was like
an inspiration that I kept pushing. that I was
still competing and that I was giving the face,
no matter what happened, you're still there pushing
and with a smile. They said to him that it was
very meaningful for them and they learned a lesson,
so to speak. And the coach after said this to
me and that meant a lot, like being a good inspiration.
or better saying, being a good role model for
the generation of speed climbers in Spain, wow,
really filled my heart. It was a very good sensation.
And it happened unexpectedly, you know, because
that wasn't my intention when I just kept competing.
Also, I have a saying, or I noticed in my life
that, like, I say that you relieve pain with
more pain. And you might think that this is crazy,
but when you have a lot of pain and soreness
in the body because of training, the best thing
to do to let this pain go away is go again to
the gym. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So I said like, okay,
keep competing. Vamos. Okay. I don't know if
I agree with that one personally. I don't know
if I can do that. Well, to be honest, it pays
off. After a couple of months, I don't know,
it was one or two months after LQS, we had, yeah,
it was just right before Olympics. We had the
European Championships and I did good. I did
third there. And it was very, very important
competition and very important spot. So now I
think it was a very smart idea to be cold -blooded
and keep going, definitely. Yeah, no, that's
good to see. And I'm glad that it paid off. Okay,
so for the future, thinking about the upcoming
season starting soon, what's your goal for the
upcoming season? Well, try to keep it up with
the pace. Yeah. When I set my goals, I try to,
of course, aim high, you know, of course. So
my goals for this season, I really want to be,
again, in the top 10 of the world ranking. I
managed to be this year. I want to keep it up
with that pace. I would love to be top 10 also,
or even better, top 8 in the World Championships
in Seoul at the end of this year. Those are my
biggest goals. Also because in terms of money,
they will give me the most value. Also, another
personal goal for this year for me is, of course,
break the five seconds barrier. And I want to
be able to do my first four. Yeah. In competition
or also in training? No, in competition. Okay.
So in training, you've done it. No, no, no, no,
no. Ah, okay, sorry. Yes, no, I've never done
four seconds in my life. Usually I have better
times in competition than in training. So, yeah,
I'm expecting to see my first four fingers crossed
on competition. Hope to see it this year. Do
you think for most people they have better competition
results than training results? I guess I'm kind
of surprised about that. No, no, I think it depends.
I think it has to do with your age. There are
many factors. But at a certain period, it was
a type of better time of training. And then everything
changed. And now I'm more of the competition,
PB kind of type. How do you think that has to
do with age? I know you mentioned age like a
couple of times. You are kind of one of the older
athletes. I don't know if it has to do with age.
To be honest, I think everyone is very, very
particular. Everyone is very different. Just
that I live it this way and it's very interesting.
I can relate to both types of persons somehow
because it happened to me both ways. But I don't
know. We can let the science maybe make some
tests and decide. And speaking of age, in terms
of being one of the older climbers, do you feel
like speed climbing allows for more longevity
as an athlete? Because I mean, I guess it's kind
of less injury prone than say maybe like bouldering.
No, I think it's very hard to tell. Speed climbing
is also very, yeah, not harmful, but yeah, it's
very intense. I had two broken pulleys. Oh, wow.
Really? Three partial broken pulleys. So we have
in the end the same injuries that people from
Boulder and Leeds as well. So I'm not sure if
there's a difference between disciplines. And
also, I'm not sure if I'm better because of the
age or I don't know. I don't know if the age
is something that reliable stuff. Maybe because
of... I have thought about this a lot, okay?
To be honest. And everyone travels very different.
I think that because I didn't have many opportunities
when I was very, very young, I'm trying to push
as long as I can now that I'm an older athlete.
So maybe there is other people that... burn the
attach we say that in Spanish I don't know if
you say something similar in English like you
burn your period differently so then in the future
you want something else you know maybe somebody
that already compete a lot with I don't know
25 they did everything they wanted with 10 to
5 then they say okay it's over for me it's easier
to step out but For me, I didn't have that. So
that's maybe why I'm trying to push harder and
to keep being an athlete for a longer time. I
think in general, your story is inspiring and
it's like a lot of hard work, a lot of dedication,
like never giving up when things get hard. I
guess, do you have an idea of when to give up
or like an idea of what retirement would look
like for you? Yes, of course. Sure. I mean, when
I see that for me, it's impossible to keep it
up with the pace of the international competitions.
I will lower my level to regional competitions
or national competitions. then probably, I don't
know. But I mean, when I'm not performing, I
know that many people and many stuff is giving
me resources. So when these resources are not
good enough to make, for example, one final,
two finals of a World Cup in one year of the
circuit, then of course that could be like a
sign and I will step out to maybe... Let other
people get involved with that risk. And also,
I think that I have a lot of people now around
me, around the Spanish team that will also help
me to show me when it's the moment, you know,
that's good. But for me, I'm giving results.
So if I'm giving results, everything is OK. But
I'm very honest and clear. When those results
are gone for medium time, I'm already having
a lot of fun teaching the new generation, teaching
the kids, and being there with the community
makes me feel it. That's good to hear. I'm not
afraid to step up. That's what I mean. Yeah,
that's good to hear. Yeah, I'm always kind of
worried when I hear people, I don't know, it's
really good to have dedication, but then I'm
always worried for these people who are super
dedicated, how they'll feel once, I don't know,
once it starts to go away. But it's good that
you seem to have a very clear head about what
the future might look like. Yeah. Also, I know
that... stop competitions stop competing doesn't
mean that i have to stop climbing so yeah it
will be different if you say to me like okay
now you don't compete you don't climb anymore
okay it's a different story you know but i will
keep climbing so everything is going to be fine
and back to the the injuries you said you mentioned
um i didn't know that people got pulley injuries
from speed climbing oh yes this is a lot a lot
you may ask you may ask their whole circuit and
everybody's having pulling issues as well yeah
yeah and it's interesting because lead and boulder
no it happened also a lot to us and uh in boulder
and lead there is a lot of there is a little
people making studies imagine for a speed everybody
thinks that we don't get injured injuries but
no we get the same um i think Even if it's a
jug, okay, the hold is a jug, right? But when
you go so fast, you don't grab a jug. You just
put your finger and put as much pressure as you
can. And that makes you make like a cream. You
know, we are not grabbing the hold, holding it
and then pushing. No, no, no. It's just with
the tip of the fingers and trying to go up. I
think we still put a lot of pressure in attendance
and, of course, then in our pulley. And then,
yeah, we have all those tendinopathias, tendinopathies.
Same like in boulder and leap. Wow. Okay. I had
no idea. That's actually really interesting.
So also, for example, in many moves, you have
to, like, hold tight a flag, for example. And
when you're doing this, you're applying a lot,
a lot of strength on your fingers. And actually
that was one of the case why I broke one of the
pulleys. So now that I have a voice, first, all
the people should know that we have the same
injuries than lead and boulder. And that it will
be also very interesting to study this because
what I noticed also. with my injuries is that
the protocol for lead and boulder is very different
than the protocol for speed. So to go back to
the wall. Yeah. What do you have to do differently?
For example, I think that because of the way
we behave and we move, I should have rested longer.
You know, when you are a lead or boulder climber,
you can say like, okay, just. do super easy moves
on jogs um as a way to to heal you know like
for therapy but in speed climbing like our moves
are already set you know like there is something
on your brain that because you know the movement
or what everything like I was always pushing
too much. Yeah, that makes sense. Always pushing
too much. So definitely the protocol has to be
different. She said to me like, okay, go to the
speed wall and just climb like in lead, super
easy. And I promise you, I wasn't even running.
But it's different. Also, the person that was
treating me, she was a climber. She was a specialist.
She's the best person in Spain. But she has never
done speed. And she hasn't been on the speed
wall for one week to see what we're doing. So
we're working on intuition here. And it would
be nice to have more scientific tools, resources,
or whatever, or knowledge. Did you ever just
do like bouldering or lead to try to fix your
injury? Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did a little bit
of climbing. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, that's super interesting.
I had no idea about like speed injuries. I thought
it was pretty safe. But I guess that's just as
someone who's like, I've only touched the speed
wall a couple of times. Once with Albert when
I visited in Salt Lake. And I did it in like
40 seconds. So it was all drugs. Yeah, that's
good to know. Well, there is a big example. It's
Piper Kelly from Team USA. She competed at the
Olympics with a broken pulley. Oh, I didn't know
that. Okay. That's crazy. That's crazy. No, that's
not good. Everything, like, I can't imagine.
But it's, once again, it's like a... very clear
example uh that in speed we have this issue very
very hard okay that's good to know um okay so
outside of i guess climbing and speed climbing
um i'm just thinking back to like retirement
as well um anything that you like doing outside
of climbing or speed climbing competitions i
don't know i'm not sure i i really enjoy The
adventure, I really enjoy living. So I don't
have something specifically in my mind, like
another sport or something. I did a lot of kitesurfing.
Maybe I start to do kitesurfing again. But to
be honest, I have no path in my mind. And for
my future retirement, to be honest, I'm thinking
now, this day, today. Something related with
speed climbing. Okay. So, yeah, I don't know.
I'm not sure if it's going to be as a coach working
on the Federation. I just finished my sport management
master degree. So it could be anything related
with sport events, sport facilities. It doesn't
have to be with climbing. you know, hard to think
about something else. Right. Also, I'm working
on a small personal project, which I'm very happy.
I'm creating like a climbing clothes and accessory
brand. Okay, cool. Yeah. So I'm really getting
into like... making the designs, creating the
web, creating some hoodies, some t -shirts, some
stickers, some stuff related to climbing. And
also I'm doing stuff related with speed climbing
for older lead and rock climbing. There is a
lot of stuff on the market, but for speed climbing,
there's nothing. There will still be stuff from
Boulder Elite and Rocks, of course, of everything.
I don't want to close it just to one niche. But
the highlight is that I'm going to include stuff
for speed. So I'm currently having a lot of fun,
like I said, thinking about the designs. Oh,
this is cool. This is going to work. No, this
is not going to work. And I received some. some
material oh i don't like this i want to change
this oh now this is broken i have to so it has
been a fun for it to be honest okay really exciting
i can't wait to see it is it gonna like come
out soon or yeah yeah it's gonna come out soon
um i hope that maybe i don't know when is this
postcard uh gonna be out live i think early may
actually Yes, sure. Okay, perfect. I thought
it was soon. Yes, it is. Perfect. By then, please,
everyone, go and visit climbgurus .com. It's
a super nice apparel and climbing shop. And for
sure, by that time, it's going to be ready. I
hope, actually, in the next couple of weeks.
start doing the marketing campaign and everything
wow exciting okay i will leave a link in the
description so people can take a look that'll
be awesome let's see what happens let's see what
happens that's cool how did you get the idea
for this to be honest first i want to they sell
some stuff from speed climbing on the competition
and it's very bad and there is nothing for climbing
and Also, like I said, I lost a lot of money
not qualifying to the OQS. So now I'm working
in plan B, C, D, 1, 2, 3, A, you know, like everything.
I'm trying to keep it up. So this was one of
the ideas. And I like to do some drawings, design.
And now with the mid -journey, it's crazy the
stuff you can do with the AI. So I was having
fun. And then everything started to come up together.
I have a friend who is a graffiti writer, a graffiti
painter. And I was talking to him what I was
doing. I really love the stuff he does. Actually,
he's also a climber. And I had a small wall in
my house in Venezuela where I climbed. And he
went always to do graffitis. I have a very close
friend, and he was the one who told me, like,
how to make the business feasible, you know?
Like, oh, bro, yeah. Like I said, like, yeah,
I'm doing this, I'm doing that, but I have also
this money issue. And he's like, okay, you can
do this. So I really want to do quality stuff,
nice stuff, stuff that the people like. Like
I said, there's nothing for speed. I think there
is a niche of nice people that may need good
apparel. But also I'm trying to create a business
of this and to create some income to keep speed
climbing. Because that's also nice that I feel
it's like the community helping the community.
Because with that money, I'm going to keep doing
speed climbing, of course. Awesome. I can't wait
to see it. It's worldwide shipping, so everybody
in the globe can buy and get the link and everything.
Cool. Okay. I guess those are all the questions
I had. We had a couple of Discord and Instagram
questions come through that we'll go into. First
one, I think you kind of were hinting at this
a little bit earlier. This is also maybe a little
bit, I don't know, might be a little controversial,
I guess. What's your opinion on the latest changes
in FEDME? I guess that's the name of the federation,
F -E -D -M -E, the Spain federation. Wow. That's
very controversial, yeah. Okay, yeah. So what's
your opinion on the latest changes there? Particularly
the firing of David Macia from the Olympic selection
for 2028. A little controversial. A little controversial.
I mean, it's not difficult, but I don't know
what the people want to get with this question.
You know, that's the weird part. Like, I could
be honest. I could say what I think, but I don't
know if people is going to misuse this. So I'm
being very cautious about it. So I think I will
not say if it's, if I'm like my feelings about
it, I will not say it. I just want to say that
from a speed climbing perspective, all the changes.
are being good because um we are now more open
i was like it was part of the job i was like
in this facility uh super focused for the olympic
qualifiers for the olympics and everything so
we we closed ourselves a lot and now i feel that
i'm open and that i'm working again with the
little kids that i'm open with the teams from
other regions in Spain that I'm developing speed,
you know, like I'm adding my grain of sand in
this national community and that now makes me
happy. But this was going to happen either with
David or without him. So to be honest, for me,
like for me it was a little bit of the same if
he stayed or or no, you know like This is a little
bit selfish. No, no, no. I don't want to say
it was the same No, I don't want to comment about
Speed about boulder indeed, but speed climbing
now is perfect So that's what I want to say about
our latest change here in the Federation. I think
we're working good We're working together. We
are working with a specialist, Mateusz Miroslav,
which is the gold medalist for the women's and
world record holder as well with Ola Miroslav.
So he's a super crazy good coach, super nice
guy. And I am really having a lot of fun training
with him. I just, I don't know too much of what
happened. Is it like a really long story? We
don't have to get into it. No, no, no, it's not.
I mean, after every Olympic cycle, it's like
classic, just that people want to make a novel
about everything. You know how it is. There wasn't,
every Olympic cycle, there is sports elections,
like federation elections. They got to help new
elections. So the federation was changed. There
was a new plancha, like a new guy trying to come.
He won. He kicked the other people out. And this
new federation decided that David wasn't going
to be the seleccionador, which is the person
that chooses who goes to each competition. So
I think that one of the mistakes is that people
are thinking, oh, David is... not going to train
anymore. No, no, no, no, no. He's still a trainer.
And I think that he was, he's a very good trainer.
He still trains Alberto and many other athletes.
And for that, he's doing like, you can see his
results. He's doing a perfect job. But that has
nothing to do with the job of choosing the people
that goes to this competition or that competition.
Okay, gotcha. David has now less power to choose
who goes to this competition or that competition.
Well, yes, but maybe we can give the chance to
another person. I don't think that... I don't
know. It's not bad or it's not good. And that
was the whole story. But what happened? It doesn't
apply to us. Because David, before even he was...
change it or kick that or whatever you want to
call it, he already incorporated Mateos to the
team. So speed climbing was already separated,
splitted before everything happened. So that's
why it's meaningless a little bit to us. We have
nothing to do with that anymore. Okay. Good to
know that it's not like a really... Too controversial,
at least. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm just cautious
because you know that people love to speak a
lot. Yeah, they're bored at home. Eric said this.
To be honest, all the stuff that I'm saying here,
they are not meant to harm. They are not meant
to... I want to create the most positive impact
on my community, to be honest. And that kind
of chitchat, if it doesn't create... Positive
impact, omit it. That's my message to the people.
Don't pay attention to it. Okay. Awesome. Okay.
We'll move on then. So next question. What do
you think of all the ideas to innovate on speed,
like relays, changing the route every year, four
climbers at a time, anything else? Well, I think
that relays is a very nice format. We tried it
in Madrid and the result. The result was amazing.
I think everybody loved it. We were able to do
many runs. The competition in general had more
sense. We had more opportunities. It was faster.
That format was very, very nice. About changing
the route every year, I'm not sure about it.
That's a tough one. To be honest, we can create
a new sport. we can do uh on -site speed climbing
or classic speed climbing and then we have people
who is very good on um creating new paths so
to speak and then we have people who is very
good on be strong and and develop it so much
technique that goes up super fast but creating
a mix doesn't make a lot of sense you know having
having the world record meant a lot to us to
the olympics to all the all this sport that we
are developing now so taking taking that out
it would be messing it up like it would be a
step back for us so i i wouldn't advise to change
the route but if we want to see again that classic
format then we have to create another sport and
make, like before, speed climbing on site. That
could be also very cool. I'm super pro into trying
new things, into keep pushing, like everything,
create content, everything that may give us visibility
and grow opportunity and change even the game.
For me, that's a very positive aspect. Okay,
makes sense. Thanks. um okay next one why did
you decide to run the chinese top when no one
else was and can you give like a brief explanation
of context of what that is okay yeah the chinese
tub uh like the classic move you grab food chip
okay it's very hard not to speak in speed climbing
uh terms uh i think that might be okay yeah okay
okay in the in the end move uh people were grabbing
a hold like a foot chip 18, 20, 90 and then top
and then I switched to going to the left in that
moment it was very weird movement and like nobody
knew if it was better or no but to me it was
very very clear that it was more straight to
go to the top like you didn't have to make a
curve like it was yeah it was a little bit of
intuitive like I saw it and for me by intuition
it was much better and and then I said like okay
I just have to do it and so it worked out for
you I know you mentioned the top has always been
hard so for for everyone everyone switch it up
in the ending of the season okay so everyone's
doing it now Yes, that was the thing. Like I
was able to see a game changer stuff very, very
early. But for me, once again, it was intuitive.
Like I saw the movement and I tried and for me
it was very logic. Like, yes, of course, this
has got to be like this. So people were skeptic,
but for me it was no error margin. And it was
crazy because a lot of people, the world record
was with other techniques. So the people were
like, why aren't you doing the world record technique?
You know, it didn't make sense. That's why it
was very crazy for me to change it. How long
did it take you to like just start incorporating
that one instead of doing what you were doing
before? I think about myself as a very adaptable
person. So it took me, I remember like one month.
I was like training for one month. And then I
was able to put it on the competition. But then
I switched from foot chip to hold 15. And that
took me a little bit longer. Wow. I'm just now
realizing how little I know about speed climbing.
Because I just, I mean, it goes so fast. I don't
even notice people doing different techniques
at any. point on the wall it's just like i mean
it's only five seconds there's no yeah yeah and
it's also crazy because i like i don't expect
you to know the numbers of the hole so when i'm
speaking i'm saying a number i'm i'm on a part
of the route and you have no idea where i'm on
the route so i it's very hard yeah it's really
hard to explain yeah okay yeah exactly also exactly
i gotta study that myself too Okay, next one.
Do you have advice for people starting out speed
climbing? Well, first of all, have fun. Like,
try to have fun while doing speed. That's the
main reason why we do it. And try to climb straight.
That would be my advice. Try to avoid going from
one side to the other. And what about in terms
of, like, training? In terms of training, be
cautious. It's very easy to break your fingers.
There is no studies about it, but it happens.
So hear your body whenever you feel pain on your
fingers. Be cautious. And sometimes, I don't
know, like less is more, but also train hard.
And last question, how was training with the
Indonesians? Some people noticed improvements
after. Oh, that's really good to hear. Well,
training with Indonesians and being in Indonesia
was life changing for me. I think it's very,
very nice people. Like in this country, they
have somehow the same temperature, the same humidity
and the same kind of feeling I had in Venezuela.
Also the noise there. architecture many stuff
remind me of Venezuela and they are also super
nice so I felt a huge bond with them and we had
the opportunity to spend more than one month
with the team training in Santicas in Jakarta
and of course this super nice environment makes
you want to push And training with the fastest
guys of the planet also makes you improve a lot.
That would be a very cool advice for the people
that are starting to do speed climbing. Try to
stick yourself with better people. And yeah,
stick with better people. That's a very good
advice. Of course, that's why it was very, not
easy, but it was, you were able to look that
I improved after one month. Imagine one month
training with Vedrick, you know, it was like
the same. I went to Salt Lake City last year
and training them with all the beasts that you
have there in Salt Lake City made me push so
hard that. I hope that you also would see my
improvement on the season. But I think I will
highlight those two stuff in Indonesia. The people
and the level. Did you ever feel intimidated
training there? Not intimidated. But, of course,
I knew that I had a lot of work to do. Okay,
yeah. Always good to learn from, yeah. I felt
that I was a couple of years behind them. But
that's okay. Like I said, it made me push and
it made me admire them a lot. And that's very
nice. Okay, that was the last question. Well,
there were a couple of other people just talking
about how great you were in the Instagram question
answer box. Pedro said, Eric's a great guy, always
helping others. I don't know if you know this
person, Lili Clymer? Leslie, yeah. Oh, okay,
Leslie. Yeah, she just asked, how can you be
so handsome? I'm going to ask her because I follow
all your beauty advices, Leslie. Thank you. Okay.
Yeah, I just figured that they would want to
get the shout out there. Okay, awesome. So that's
all the questions I had. Thanks for joining me
today. Any last minute words of wisdom you want
to get out there? No, just wanted to say thank
you for the opportunity for giving me voice.
It was very fun. I had a blast. I hope that once
again. the people enjoy this podcast and that
I'm open to anyone who wants to keep chatting
with me on my Instagram. Just send me a DM or
whatever. And of course, thank you all the audience
for taking their time and listen to us having
a fun conversation. I will link all of that in
the description. All right. Thank you. It was
amazing to talk to you. perfect i have a great
time once again and thank you very much thank
you so much for making it to the end of the podcast
don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed
otherwise you are a super big climber if you're
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the discussion on the free competition climbing
discord linked in the description thanks again
for listening Thank you.