Because, you know, I was that kid that watched
climbing comps and saw thin athletes and got
disordered eating. Yeah, but you look at athletes'
faces out on the mat and tell me how often you
think they're having fun. Did you ever lie about
that? I guess it's like outdoor climbing. You
know, I climbed a V14 the other day and no one
cared at all. And I was like, OK, thanks, guys.
People saying they were going to call child services
on me and that I was going to be a bad mum and
I already was because I was risking my daughter's
life. Guys that have kids are like, are you going
to have another one? You bounced back so quick
last time and I'm like, fuck you, I did not bounce
back. I grinded away and I pushed so hard and
it wasn't easy. Welcome to another episode of
the That's Not Real Climbing Podcast. I'm your
host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce my
guest for today, Shauna Coxsey. You all probably
know who she is, but just in case, she's a British
climber, two -time bouldering World Cup season
winner, Olympian, mom, and nowadays she's still
ticking off hard climbs outdoors. In this episode,
we'll learn about how not excited she was to
competing in the Olympics, why she has an issue
with the word retirement, and of course, the
difficulty of managing climbing during and after
pregnancy, both socially and physically. Thank
you so much to Mad Rock for setting up this interview
at their HQ. Just a reminder that you can use
the code NOTREALCLIMBER for 10 % off your Mad
Rock order. And I hope you enjoy this episode
with Shauna. Real quick, I'm excited to announce
my new sponsor helping make this podcast episode
possible, Mad Rock Climbing. I got fitted with
their brand new line of high -performance shoes,
the D2 .1s. They just came out December 6th,
but you might notice a few of your favorite gomp
climbers are already wearing them, like Oscar
Boudran from Team Canada, and also me. This is
the first time I've gotten to wear their shoes
for an extended period of time, and I'm actually
super impressed with the grip of their in -house
rubber. And of course, the famous drone heel
that everyone says is the cheat code to heel
hooking small edges. Feel free to message me
if you have any questions about the shoes or
sizing, and you can use the discount code NOTREALCLIMBER
for 10 % off your entire MedRock order. Info
will be in the description. Back to the show.
But okay, how are you doing today? How are the
clinics? yeah they were good fun actually yeah
they yeah they were like a really young group
initially uh and then slightly older for the
second group but still all like youth squad team
kind of scenes which i didn't prepare for so
yeah kind of so what was different about it how
did that like throw a wrench in your plans um
it just means that the pace needs to change and
the So in my sessions, I really like to focus
on mindfulness and kind of body connection with
the brain and what the body's doing Whereas you
have to shape that very differently for young
people and you would for adults i think i wish
i could have been there i wanted to take one
oh they ran out of spots oh yeah they sold out
super quick actually i didn't even get a chance
to promote them yeah i'm so interested that it
was all like youth climbers but yeah the youth
climbers here are crazy yeah so i know they're
so realized that it's it's very scary impressive
it's very different to back home oh really yeah
yeah because like as just kind of like a more
recreational comp climber it's very hard to just
like beat any of the kids yeah and that's like
it's sad but my goal is to just like beat children
i feel like that's my goal these days yeah like
okay exactly they were like are you gonna try
the hardest climbs in the gym i was like dude,
I'd have to warm up for like three hours to try
that climb. Like, no, I'm good. I know. Like,
we want to watch you on it. And I was like, oh,
I'm sorry. Yeah. So like, of course, like the
people taking the clinics learn a lot from them.
But as the instructor, is there anything you
learned from like teaching these clinics? Yeah,
I learned so much from the athletes that come
in the clinics or the people that come in the
clinics. And I think it's, you know, I'm someone
that's really inspired by the people around me.
And I think. So much of what I learn from the
people on the clinics is about the mental side
and the approach and the inquisitive nature.
I love it when I get asked a question that I
have to stop and really think about the answer
to. And I think when it's a lot of young climbers...
what I learn mostly is about the sense of where
the sport's at and I've done a few different
things here in LA and elsewhere with younger
climbers and I'm realizing that so much more
we need to focus on the mental side of climbing
and the most frequently asked question I get
is how do I or how did I deal with nerves as
a professional climber or as a professional comp
athlete like that's still the case somewhat on
rock but it's so much more exposed yeah and you're
so it's so much more intense in in competition
climbing right so um yeah that's probably my
most frequently asked question from these clinics
and elsewhere too yeah you seem like one of the
competitors who was like better at dealing with
your nerves i don't remember where i heard this
but someone was talking about how um maybe it
was just like you in that room talking um about
how people like run out onto the maps instead
of like staying calm and you can just yeah yeah
yeah yeah so i guess you kind of give off that
like vibe of being more chill during comps yeah
and i think it's something i tried pretty hard
to embody is being present and being calm i perform
best when i'm calm and not agitated. Also like
running out onto the mats when it's super hot
especially because some climbs are at altitude
you know like it's kind of exhausting you're
either the boulder or flustered and I don't know
to spend an extra five seconds walking to the
boulder and feeling calm and controlled for me
made a huge difference than if I ran out there
but that's a personal choice yeah as everything
is and especially comp climbing everyone kind
of has or tries to weave their own version of
what is most conducive to a successful performance,
right? Yeah. So how is your like method for staying
calm during a comp? Staying calm? Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, this is the question I've been asked
the most. I'm very well versed in answering it.
Yeah. But no, I... have talked a lot about recently
and what I would say to anyone struggling with
nerves in competition is that nerves are not
something to be afraid of right nerves are a
good thing they mean you are excited to be there
they mean you have a lot of emotion around that
event there's also the fact that we can't change
our emotions we can't change how we feel in any
given moment we can't just choose to feel differently
so understanding that we feel nervous and figuring
out what that looks like is super important and
we can make choices to feel differently in the
future we can focus on our breathing or kind
of do mindfulness practice or whatever it might
be to help you change how you're feeling but
in that moment you can't make nerves go away
it's it's not possible so for me it looked like
owning them you know like kind of realizing that
a they were a good thing and b they weren't anything
to fear And then I'd use different breathing
techniques. So at times I've used box breathing,
you know, like four seconds in, hold for four,
four seconds out, hold for four, you know? So
I use that even still today, you know, if I'm
struggling to sleep or if my toddler is testing
my patience. So box breathing for me is something
that I use as a tool regularly and did so. So
therefore in competition, if I was feeling anxious,
I could use that as a tool. and then i would
very much use mindfulness as well so kind of
certain intentions of what i wanted to do in
that session and i'd use that to come back to
like where i was if i did feel nervous and then
i would literally force myself to smile to walk
out on the mat smiling those things yeah which
is scientifically proven to make you feel better
yeah so for me smiling and being present and
happy to be in that space, to be in the space
that I've worked really hard to get to, helped
me deal with nerves. So kind of accepting where
they are, trying to control my breathing and
my state, and then smiling. Okay, thank you.
Yeah, a little process. I hope it helps people.
Sorry, delve straight into that. Yeah, no, I
mean, hopefully it helps. It seems like a question
you get a lot. Yeah, it is. Yeah, I get it a
lot. And I didn't struggle with nerves at comps
towards the end. But the one thing I will say
is that you cannot train experience. Yeah. So
you can train comp simulations. You can do as
many boulders as you want or ropes or speed runs.
But you can't train being out in front of a crowd
on the mats performing. So the more you do it,
the easier it gets. Yeah. I mean, you said that...
it didn't you didn't feel as nervous anymore
at the end was that because maybe you like didn't
care as much anymore or did you still i think
i would say the only competition i ever went
into not to compete that i didn't care as much
would be the olympics and there's a whole story
behind that do you want to get in i know we can
yeah um and that so going into the olympic qualification
so the world championships in 2019 I felt pretty
good. But my entire team around me was fairly
convinced that I wasn't going to qualify at that
event. We didn't even talk about the fact that
I might qualify. It didn't feel like a possibility.
And I think Tokyo feels like so long ago now.
Because it kind of was. A little. But we just
didn't know where anyone sat in terms of a three
-discipline sport. they didn't exist previously
you know that three discipline element so i'd
done some training and my speed time wasn't incredible
compared to some of the other athletes i mean
it wasn't terrible but it wasn't great okay um
and we had no idea where my lead climbing was
at because i hadn't done many comps yeah and
the hardest thing to train was bouldering so
yeah because you went from having all your time
to be the best in the world or the best you could
be at the thing you love most And that was me
trying to be one of the best in the world to
a third of your time, trying to be better than
you've ever been. Yeah. Which I fell so out of
love with bouldering in the start of the Olympic
training process. It was like super heartbreaking.
And one of the things I had to work really hard
to get back. So, yeah, going into Hachioji World
Championships, we had no idea. So I walked away
from that event with a bronze medal and was like
pretty psyched, obviously, unexpected. And was
like, OK, the Olympics is... a year away let's
train and push for that i picked up a couple
of injuries but they were manageable and then
the whole covert delay just had such a negative
impact for me personally on my training on my
injuries not being able to have access to physios
and the usual routine and i'm someone who thrives
off my environment i like to work with people
and train with people. And then that was all
stripped away. So as one of the older athletes
as well that qualified, an extra year felt hard
as opposed to exciting. And for the younger athletes,
you know, an extra year of training was super
significant. It was huge. How old were you at
the time? 27? Okay. Yeah, I think. Gosh, I should
know the answer to that. I guess if you didn't
care about that time then no I mean I did really
care you know going to Hachioji and then 2020
yeah but then by the time 2021 came around it
felt like get to the games that was the goal
ultimately because my body was really struggling
yeah I knew I needed surgeries I knew I needed
kind of a lot of time away and I'd had a knee
surgery that had an epidural that went wrong.
So I had a, I therefore carried a back injury
because of that. I still do. Epidural for a knee
injury? Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. I didn't know that
was a thing at all. It wasn't. So it was during
COVID. The anesthetist didn't want to do general
despite my asking for it. It's a long story,
but yeah. So they missed my epidural space when
they did the epidural and punctured my spinal.
called fluid so the dura fluid leaked out um
so yeah i had a i still have a back injury from
that which was really aggravated by speed so
basically in 2019 i was psyched and then mid
2020 kind of got screwed over by a bad epidural
yeah so 2020 olympics so in 2021 it was like
cool let's limp to the finish line we get there
and try and become an olympian yeah actually
complete this chapter You didn't do bad. No,
in hindsight, I was like, shit, I probably should
have tried a bit harder and been more in the
zone for this, but it was so hard and it was
the first time in my career where I felt like
I couldn't get into the space of fighting to
compete. And I also knew it was my last ever
event. I knew that it was the end of my career
and I was ready for it, but it felt kind of drawn
out towards the end. It was like, Yeah. Are we
going to make it or not? Like, are we going to
get there? And there'd been so much hype towards
it. And I also wanted babies. I was like, I really
want to have a baby. So the extra year for me
was not ideal. Okay. And so that was your very
last event. yeah okay yeah someone asked me earlier
when did i last go on the speed route and i was
like uh in tokyo you haven't touched it since
no i think the speed climbers were really sad
to hear that i don't know i mean i feel like
they deserve their own set of medals and they
deserve their own discipline i'm not sure speed
climbers will be sad to hear that because they
have their own sport you know and i respect that
and i loved training it actually but yeah i mean
i got pregnant not long after getting back from
tokyo and also it's the worst thing for my back
so yeah yeah yeah makes sense okay so we will
get into your um i guess quitting the competition
scene a bit in a bit um but i guess first for
those who don't know how did you get into climbing
and competing in the first place yeah so i started
climbing when i was four i saw it on the tv my
dad was a trials bike rider um so we used to
watch like the trials riding on the adventure
sports programs on the tv And then after one,
climbing came on one day. And it was Catherine
Destivelle, who is a French female climber. And
she was soloing cliffs in Africa, in Mali. And
I just fell in love. And I was like, Dad, that's
what I want to do. I want to do that. I want
to climb. We found a local gym a little while
later. So no one in my family climbed. I've brought
in a couple of people, some of my nephews since.
but yeah i started at four and then started competing
at seven just because there was a compound at
my local gym which i did and i think i i came
like third because there were three people in
it oh okay yeah still counts for something yeah
i mean i got a medal i got the medal and i qualified
for the national final so i went to the national
final because there were only three again um
but yeah i went to the national final and there's
actually footage of me climbing and i'm crying
my eyes out i seem to hate it oh but I remember
distinctly watching the oldest female category
in the youth having this climb off and they were
on this super steep wall and it was these like
three incredible climbers all having this climb
off one after another and I was like I want to
do that so I've seen like the footage of me being
upset and I kind of remember it but I remember
way more this like climb off from these really
strong girls and I'm pretty sure it was Leah
Crane who is my coach that came to the games
with me and then Hazel Finley and Katie Whittaker
so like three kind of legends in the British
scene for sure. Yeah and so since then were you
more inspired by the comp scene or also just
like outdoors? I don't think I've ever really
been inspired by kind of the elite of the sport
mainly because it felt quite disconnected for
me because In terms of where I was at and what
I was doing, there wasn't so much press around
the competition scene in my sphere where I grew
up climbing. And then there were so few women
in the sport doing inspiring things at the time
that were promoters. I'm sure there were, but
we didn't find out about them. So I felt quite
disconnected from the elite world of the sport.
But I think I've always been someone who's more
inspired by the people surrounding me doing amazing
things. You know, like my sister worked full
time and did a law degree part time whilst raising
me. And I'm like, that is badass and inspiring.
Like that is super hardcore. But as well, you
know, you go to the climbing gym and you see
someone send their first V3 that they've been
working a few sessions towards. Or like someone
getting their first pull up and they've... They're
trying super hard and they do it. That's inspiration
for me. That's something that I can feel and
I appreciate. Whereas I feel quite detached.
And I think I did as a younger person from kind
of the elites of the world. And I guess thinking
back, looking back on your time in Team GB when
you were actually competing, I don't know how
involved you are with GB anymore. I'm not involved
at all with GB. Okay. Yeah. You might not know
the answer for this. Okay. How do you feel like
the team has progressed since you left? I think
well I mean we can look in terms of numbers you
know I was the only British athlete to go to
Paris not Paris getting confused I was the only
British athlete to go to Tokyo and then we had
four Olympians in Paris so we obviously saw Toby
take the gold and then Hamish and Erin both make
finals and Molly was there too so to have four
athletes Going to Paris. I think is an incredible
achievement. I think there has been significant
progress in terms of representation of British
athlete in the elite so in finals and winning
medals and being successful But I definitely
don't think the support has improved for the
athletes and I think it's really sad actually
to see Where the sport is right now to see the
success that the athletes are having and to see
how under supported they are Yeah, and I think
that there's been more funding come in and I'd
love to see it go to the athletes and actually
make a difference for them. I know there's athletes
who qualified for the Olympics who won't even
have all their comp registrations paid this year.
Wow, really? Like in GB or just in general? Oh,
wow. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty rough. It's sad.
It's really sad. Let alone flights or accommodation
or funding for training. Going backwards, it's
so unfortunate, but I don't know enough detail
on the what. Okay. Yeah, funding is always a
huge issue with anything in the comp scene, I
think. I guess sort of on the lines of funding,
you mentioned to me that you felt like you'd
gotten really lucky with your timing as an athlete,
growing along with social media. I guess what
exactly do you mean by that? So my growth as
a professional athlete... kind of coincided with
our sport growing at a significant rate. And
I think also coincided with social media, kind
of the birth and growth of Instagram and that
becoming relevant. So those three things for
me kind of created the perfect storm in some
ways for me to be able to build a platform and
to work with brands and be successful. Yes, it
was a lot of work. It didn't just happen by accident.
I pour a lot of effort and energy into my social
presence and how I interact with the media and
the work that I do and everything I do outside
of being on the wall, but I do think I was lucky.
I do think it's a different game to play if you're
coming into the world now, because you're stepping
into a sport that is Olympic, that has very distinct
pathways in place in some countries and others
less so. You know, you can't just rock up to
US nationals and have a go. You have to qualify
to get there. You have to go through a whole
process, as I've been learning from the youth
here recently. You know, like it's a very distinct...
drawn out process just to get to nationals let
alone to get to internationals and then you've
got the whole contention of social media and
how to perform in that world you know as a professional
athlete there's kind of two ways to make money
and have a successful career is to be really
good and be at the very very top or to be marketable
and work with brands and be very good at the
marketing side. And you can marry those worlds
and do pretty well. You can do even better if
you're doing that in the States. It's a whole
different game. Oh gosh, yeah. It's very much
different in Europe. The funding's a lot less.
But yeah, I think now to exist in either of those
worlds is a lot more challenging or to build
up to having a strong presence. in the comp scene
at the elite it's more difficult in terms of
the process to get there let alone the actual
them performing as it is on social media too.
Also I just want to say in terms of like the
US funding or I guess in terms of like I guess
like advertising funding yeah I mean I think
the athletes here don't get funding well I guess
Sorry either. Yeah, but there are some countries
that do get like funding for that. Yeah. Yeah,
of course that that's a great point and worth
mentioning I'm talking in terms of sponsorship
me. Yeah on that side of thing the marketing
side. Yeah, I think there's Generally a lot more
budget from companies in the US than there is
in Europe, right? In terms of marketing budget,
but yeah, there are countries in Europe that
are fully funded. There are countries like in
the across the world federations that pay their
athletes to be athletes or they might be part
of the military in that country or the police
um and then that will mean they get funded as
an athlete to do that full time so there's a
lot of different ways in which it works in different
countries but yeah in the states i know it's
only the very top few who are funded um and in
the uk i don't even know if it's the top few
anymore yeah i guess it doesn't seem like that
um But yeah, we know how to do capitalism. That's
the moral of the story. So do you think if you
started as an athlete right now, you would find
it really daunting to get into the whole like
marketing space? It's such a hard question to
answer because, you know, with hindsight, it's
impossible to imagine what I might have thought.
I think ultimately I knew exactly what I wanted
to do. I wanted to be a professional climber
and I knew exactly. what my goals were not how
to achieve them and i forged a path for myself
and i've said before that it wasn't a case of
trying to open doors for myself we were building
the doors to open because they just didn't exist
you know there hadn't been a professional comp
climber from the uk before me we'd had some success
in comps way back and the odd odd medal here
and there but for me my goal was to train like
an athlete become an athlete in the climbing
world and that felt quite new but I think I was
very driven and really understood my goals so
I think coming in now I think yes I'd find it
daunting just as I did back then but I think
I'd be quite driven to know exactly the path
I wanted to go down but that's just because I'm
quite a goal -driven person. Any like social
media tips to current athletes out there? Oh
my gosh, social media tips. That's a big question.
You just slid that right in there. I feel like
we could do a whole podcast on social media tips
and I don't think I'm the right person to ask.
I think the social media, you know, people try
to master it and I think that that is an impossible
task. I think ultimately if you're able to be
yourself. that's the best way to go about things
but I think it's almost a game you know that
you're having to play and deciding how you want
to play that game is really important I don't
think that you have to like be the next influencer
and do it a specific style I think you can be
authentic to yourself now but posting consistently
and trying to allow negativity to pass without
giving you too much emotional distress because
it's impossible to exist on social media without
encountering negativity and i find that really
sad and i hate that that's a part of my job and
a part of you know younger athletes are going
to face that too yeah but it's kind of an unfortunate
circumstance of the world we're living in it
feels like yeah Yeah, there's a lot of negativity
online. I mean that kind of like drives clicks
as well. Exactly. I guess that is kind of just
how it works But I guess I was kind of wondering
sort of like transitioning to the athletes commission
thing because I guess I kind of had this thought
that maybe I don't know if this is true, but
as part of Athletes' Commission, maybe one thing
that you guys work on is also come up with workshops
for athletes so that they know how to manage
their life after the sport. I was wondering if
that's something you guys do. It's something
that some national federations do, and some national
federations do it really well. A lot of Olympic
national Olympic committees will do it, so NOCs.
it's really interesting because with the international
federation it obviously sits at the top and then
you have the national federations below that
and then kind of the athletes come through the
national federations so understanding where responsibility
lies is often quite confusing and i do think
it's something well it is something that's come
up at the athlete commission and some of the
commission members have wanted to run sessions
on marketing and strategies and yeah life after
what comes after pro -athlete life. There are
a few systems in place within the IFSC to help
educate on judging and route setting and whatnot
so there's the balls starting to roll there and
I think it is definitely something that national
federations need to do more as well because obviously
it's relevant to where you are in the world as
well and culturally what that looks like it will
be different at times but I would love to see
more. professional athletes involved, not just
in the coaching side, which I think is a really
natural fit for most people to say, oh, that
makes sense to bring athletes through into coaching.
Although we don't see it as much as I would expect
or would hope. Different skill sets, kind of.
Yeah, they are. But I do think that there's an
element of having someone on your team as a national
federation that's been there and done it is invaluable.
As much as you're a coach, I do not think you
need to be a professional climber or have been
to the Olympics to be a good coach. But I'm just
saying the experience of having been out on those
mats is invaluable. You can't say you know what
that feels like or you know how to coach that
environment entirely without the experience,
I don't think, and without that shared experience.
I think what we learn... And what athletes learn
on that mat is very useful for coaches to absorb
as well. It's not a one -way relationship. I
think that coaches can learn a lot from athletes
too. So my main task as the chair of the athlete
commission has been to have an athlete representative
sit on every single commission within the IFSC.
Because what I found when I came on board initially
was there would be a topic. or a question around
something that was changing and all this work
would be done and then the athlete commission
would be told that it was happening and often
have some questions or some discourse and then
it would be like well it's too late all this
work's been done this is what's happening we're
just letting you know or like yeah we can take
that on board a little bit maybe we can change
it um so i want the athletes to be involved in
those conversations from the very start and to
have input and constantly remind everyone around
that the sport only exists if the athletes are
performing on the stage, you know, like that
is what the sport is. So yeah, that's been my
main push and my main focus is to get that voice
within every commission. But I think it'd be
so cool to have athletes sat on the board, not
as athlete representative, as president, vice
president. like continent representatives yeah
to have more voices in those spaces so yeah the
kind of career element really comes into play
there yeah and backtracking real quick for anyone
who's like not super familiar with athletes commission
does um can you give like a brief overview of
that and i guess also like what are some of like
the main top of mind issues right now that you
guys are tackling so the international federation
of sport climbing is the body for all of sport
climbing and that sits as its own entity and
then the national federations are kind of part
of the international federation so The International
Federation has an athlete commission where two
members of that commission, so the chair and
vice chair, sit on the executive board. So that's
two of 11 spots, which we have full voting rights
as well, I will say. So although I think climbing
has a lot of improvements to make still, I really
am proud of the fact that our federation has
two athletes with voting rights. on the executive
board that's not very common in sport at all
so we have gender equality on that as well so
it's one male and one female and the athlete
commission is responsible for being the voice
between the international federation and the
athletes and there's a lot of work that's done
on every single sphere that you can imagine in
terms of topics that have been most relevant
i think the one that comes up most frequently
and the one that is we're incredibly passionate
about as a commission and as a sport is athlete
health and well -being um so there's a lot of
work been done on red s testing and climbing
is actually the first sport to bring in any form
of red s testing yeah it's it's really interesting
other sports have tried and this is the first
any any red s testing but actually has a repercussion
sorry so wow in a certain circumstance an athlete
could be removed from competition yeah um that's
a whole other topic but again we could probably
do an entire podcast on to explain but there's
been a lot of push and voice from the athletes
um to get this to where it is and yes it's not
perfect and it is in a phase where it's coming
into the sport and there's a lot more work to
be done but I'd say that was kind of the topic
that's reoccurring and then there's a lot of
discussion on route setting always of course
and calendars and a big huge one has been the
Olympics the disciplines and the medals that
we'll have so we'll find out in April what the
number of medals is and how many athletes and
then also the Paralympics too so the athlete
commission have been really supportive of the
paralympic kind of climbing bid but that has
all been solely the para climbing committee who
fronted that work and the athlete representatives
on the para climbing committee there um so yeah
they work tirelessly to make the bid for the
la paralympics which we'll find out in december
if that's accepted so we're definitely in it's
just how it will look so how many how many classifications
are not trying to scare you there they are in
it's the classifications and how that's all going
to look and what numbers so they've worked super
hard on that and then we're trying to make it
as cohesive as possible and figure out the best
way for the para climbing committee to work best
with the athlete commission to feed back to the
executive board but yeah i'd say our biggest
challenge is always communicating with the athletes
so one of my big Goals aside from getting athletes
on every commission is to have every National
Federation have an athlete representative In
an ideal world you'd have every National Federation
have an athlete on their board Which doesn't
seem like a big ask if the International Federation
has to yeah But some of our federations are covering
multiple different sports. So snow sports or
mountaineering Outdoor climbing. Yeah So yeah,
even getting one athlete name, like a representative,
is tricky at times. Okay, makes sense. Yeah,
there's a lot of spinning plates. Yeah, there
was a lot of, I guess, issues you had mentioned
as well in terms of like, yeah, like Red S2.
One of the audience questions that had come in
was, does it feel like you're actually moving
the needle with this? Or is it like more so just
like a lot of frustration or like deadlocks?
No, it does feel like, I mean, there's change
that has happened, right? It is moving. My question
that I posed publicly and to the International
Federation, to the Medical Commission, is that
if we're saying we're testing and we're looking
at whether or not athletes are healthy or not,
and we are saying our testing has come in, it
works well, are we saying everyone that goes
out and competes is healthy and that is the image
we are happy to portray for our sport, or are
we saying our testing doesn't work? because right
now it's the former so we're saying we're testing
and this works and this is great but there's
obviously a reason we've brought this testing
in so my fear is that we could be causing more
damage by saying everyone's healthy everyone's
fine when it might not look that way to the outside
community but ultimately the testing they can
only pull someone out of competition if they
are at risk in that very moment when they do
that test and I think it's like a fatal risk
in that in that moment so there's a lot of nuance
to the way the testing works and I think there's
a lot better communication that needs to happen
so that we can all understand what the testing
is and how it works. Because, you know, I was
that kid that watched climbing comps and saw
thin athletes and got disordered eating because
of watching comp athletes. Like I was literally
that kid. So it's not. I didn't know about that
part. Oh, yeah. I haven't talked about it much
publicly. And I think I will at some point. But
it's been very relevant in these topics, in this
topic, because when we talk about protecting
the athletes and the well -being of the athletes
that are on that platform, on that stage, that's.
so important and that's why this work is being
done but it stems so much further than that it
stems to the little kid watching or every single
individual that's watching you know we're inspiring
not just a generation but an entire community
of climbers all around the world so yeah i think
that we are making steps and the medical commission
has had some changes recently and I think that
there's some incredibly passionate caring individuals
that are working so hard and I just hope it keeps
improving because I think there's always going
to be teething pains right when things come in
and it's new so yeah my role is up in September
for the international Federation athlete chair
role. So hand the reins over to the next person
to continue this workout. You're not going to
do it again? No, I'm not going to do it again.
No, I feel ready to pass that baton. Okay. And
I guess going back to, I mean, when you were
saying that you also kind of went into that eating
disorder route, if you're comfortable. Yeah,
it's fine. Did you, were you like aware that
that was, I guess, happening? Because I think
some people don't even realize that they're like...
Yeah, no, I looked at who was... So when I was
a teenager and I wanted to be a pro climber,
I looked at who was at the top. They looked a
certain way and that's what I thought was needed
to be successful. Like I would print pictures
out of skinny climbers and stick them on my mirror
to be like, right, I don't want to eat. And I
would try hard not to eat. Like I was very aware
of what I was doing. And then I broke my leg
because my bone density was low. Wow. So I was...
significantly damaging my health at this point.
And then I started working with a coach and a
nutritionist and they helped me build back up.
Yeah, so I think if I hadn't have been lucky
enough to break my leg, the irony, then I could
have gone down like a damaging path. And I had
struggles with disordered eating over like having
an eating disorder. I don't think I actually
was, I don't think I was unlucky. sorry i think
i was lucky to meet the right people at the right
time to pull me out of it and not go too far
um but it's something that i still struggle with
today like i still have to be very conscious
about it and i still have kind of trauma from
that and that is because of what image our sport
was promoting at that time yeah and i guess i've
heard stories that even like amongst athletes
it would just be like a normal thing to talk
about like how little you're eating and Did you
feel like that was the case for you at the time?
Yeah, for sure. We are in a power to weight sport.
And I think that weight isn't a topic we're going
to get away from. So it's the narrative around
that. And I think we need to shift the narrative
from weight to health. And I think even still
now, you know, like... If I speak to athletes,
there's pride in saying how light you are. Really?
Yeah, it's hard. But also there's a lot of fear
around saying your weight if you find it too
heavy. And I was one of the heavier climbers
on the World Cup circuit, and my husband's a
heavier climber, you know? So we're very familiar
with... becoming comfortable with that but even
the fact that I'm sat here saying we're heavier
climbers you know that's kind of part of the
damaging narrative that that's creating because
we're not super heavy people right but we are
in like the pro climber scene um and I don't
know how we get away from that narrative because
of being in a power to weight sport but I do
wish for a healthier world that our sport exists
in. Yeah, it's kind of scary, I think. Well,
I would say like from an outsider's perspective,
like someone who's not involved in the elite
parts of climbing, I don't... Like I feel like
the narrative is kind of changing. It does feel
like that. Shifting. Hearing about it on social
media and stuff. People are kind of more aware
about what they're saying. Careful about what
they're saying in terms of like weight. So I
think it's okay. Yeah. No, I think it's good.
And I remember being stood on a World Cup podium
and it was me, Miho and Yanya. And we all had.
biceps. We were all like stacked. And I looked
at those girls and I was like, this is the healthiest
podium I've seen in a World Cup in terms of the
image presented to the outside world. And I'm
not saying anyone who looks skinny isn't healthy,
not by any means. We don't know anyone's backstory.
We don't know what their natural body form is.
We can sit back and question everything and it's
easy just like, you know, the keyboard warriors
who love to comment on Yeah, especially women's
weight, you know, I find that hard but yeah,
I I'm also guilty of it because when I saw it
was me Miho and Janja and I was like this is
inspiring This is cool. Like all those little
girls that are in the front row of this competition
see three healthy looking athletes like that
for me was a really cool moment in the sport
especially where I'd come from and what I'd seen
in my time in like the pro comp circuit to be
like ah this is changing like this is impressive
yeah um but yeah I hope that continues to kind
of get better in the future yeah yeah and I I
definitely um I think I resonate with what you're
saying about just like the keyboard warriors
too oh gosh It's just, yeah, it's not great to
comment on anyone, even if you're, like, concerned.
Because people, I don't know, naturally settle
at any kind of weight. So you don't necessarily
know just from looking if they're healthy or
not. Yeah. So, yeah, that can be pretty damaging
as well. Yeah. I mean, there's a whole host of
nuance to the testing that goes on as well. So
I think although it can... kind of looked like
the international federation saying everyone's
healthy if they're competing that's not actually
the case necessarily because there will if an
athlete shows up in a certain zone then the national
federation will be notified and then ultimately
the responsibility for the athlete's well -being
falls to the national federation but that's not
to say that isn't happening we just aren't privy
to that information okay like as the public so
yeah there could be athletes who are under concern
but you won't find that information out and you
shouldn't right like that is that private yeah
exactly yeah Okay. Well, thank you for sharing
your story. I know that can be like kind of difficult
sometimes. That's okay. So switching gears here
a bit into, I guess, dare I say the word retirement?
Yeah, we've talked about this. Please excuse
this brief intermission, but if you're interested
in deleted scenes from this episode where we
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to the show. Yeah, what is it like transitioning
from comp climbing to rock? And I guess what's
your issue with retirement? Yeah, I just, the
word retirement. saying I retired is my biggest
regret in my career and that's not to say you
shouldn't use it it's just because I said I retired
so then everyone assumed I was done with climbing
I wasn't going to be elite and then because I
had a baby during that time too I was literally
like written off as an elite climber in a lot
of spheres I think or especially outside of the
climbing community and because when was coming
back from having my baby and wanting to transition
to becoming a rock climber there was a lot of
change going on so I was kind of battling a lot
of other things and I think people genuinely
assumed I was like done with climbing outside
of the sport and that's I think partly because
we've become Olympic so in a lot of traditional
Olympic sports your sport is your job you retire
and then you never do that again. Really? In
a lot of sports, yeah, as I've learned. You know,
like, if you think... I know Jess Ennis, who's
a heptathlete. She's an Olympian, a British Olympian,
won multiple medals. She doesn't go and do the
heptathlon every weekend, right? And... I mean,
that's a bit different. It's like a conglomeration.
It is. So I was chatting to a track cyclist when
I was in Paris. I was on the studio show for
Eurosport. And we were sat chatting. We had the
Eiffel Tower twinkling in the background. We
were all glammed up. And she was like, so what
do you do now? Is this what you do? Commentating.
And I was like, no, no, I'm a pro climber. She
was like, yeah, you used to be, but what do you
do now? And I was like, no, I'm a professional
rock climber. And she was like, sorry, what?
I was like. What do you mean what? And she was
like, how does that work? I climb rocks. And
honestly, when I said it out loud, I was like,
yeah, how does that work? I climb rocks. Sounds
very strange. But she couldn't fathom that I
could continue my professional career within
the sport outside of competition. She genuinely
couldn't grasp it. The more I explained it, the
less sense it made to her. And she's a professional.
ex -professional athlete too, you know? So I've
come across that kind of resistance quite a lot
in that world outside of the sport. So that's
my issue with the word retirement. Transition
is a great word from compathlete to rock climber
with the hiatus of having a baby. But yeah, it
feels like a different sport. any like difficulties
there going from yeah i had a baby okay yeah
that's true yeah yeah i think um it's i get asked
a lot like how different is comp climbing to
rock climbing and what the transition was like
um but because i had pregnancy postpartum recovery
yeah in the middle of that phase and i did that
kind of during the olympic dip that everybody
goes through and especially with tokyo because
it was climbing's first time everyone was a first
-time olympian no one was ready for the circus
and wildness that comes with going to the games
um i think everyone struggled literally everyone
i know that went to Tokyo and I spoke to afterwards
struggled whether they were there as a coach
or a physio or if they won gold or came 20th,
you know, like everyone had some sort of dip
after. Just like the crash from... Yeah, it's
so intense and the build -up with then the delay.
And the whole surrounding of, will it happen?
Won't it happen? Will you test positive for COVID
and not get to go? Or won't you? You know, you
sat in the airport when you got there and did
this COVID test. You just sat in a conference
room with a mask on, waiting for someone to come
and give you a little positive or negative card.
It's like, are you going to get turned around
on the flight? Go straight home? This seems like
some weird sci -fi movie now. Yeah. I think it
was in the past, kind of. Yeah. So for me, going
from... literally the olympics it's a pregnancy
to then climbing outdoors feels like maybe it's
not the usual transition phase there um i guess
maybe this one will be a bit more relevant than
um one of the audience questions how do you deal
mentally with things that used to work well climbing
training and performance wise but now or are
not or at least in the past temporarily we're
not um either because of getting older or having
less time because of family or yeah maybe um
I have let go of my expectation of my pre -partum
self. So I have a lot of postpartum PBs, I call
them, like a PPPB. So I think for me, I've just
had to accept my new body and a new way of training.
You know, I went from the most intense cycle.
of my entire life to growing a human birthing
a human and recovering from that and now I have
a lot less time so it's just wildly different
it doesn't feel like I have any expectation lingering
anymore from who I was in terms of physicality
before I had a baby but also I guess because
I wasn't just training for bouldering it doesn't
feel as relevant so because I was training speed
climbing and rope climbing and bouldering a little
bit now I can just train bouldering and focus
solely on that and the actual specifics of training
for rock climbing are so minimal compared to
training for just comp bouldering alone let alone
all three disciplines So yeah, I'd say I've just
let go of the expectation that I had before and
I have new goals that are specific to who I am
and what I want to achieve now. And I've allowed
myself to shift into this new expectation and
be content with that. When I say allowed, I've
had a lot of support to help me get to that stage
because it's not been easy, especially because
we have two boards in our basement and I have
climbs that I could do. pre -Frankie. Well, one
of them we reset, which was the best thing we
could have done. But the right board we kept
has been the same for 13 years, I think. So,
you know, I'm like, oh, I used to be able to
do that. Yeah. And I've just managed to let go
of that. Yeah. Yeah. We set in the left board
was good, though. OK. Yeah. It seems like letting
go of expectations is like a big thing within
comps in general. Like I hear a lot of athletes
say that. they go into a comp with no expectations
and that's when they do that. I don't know if
I believe that they mean that though. Oh, really?
Yeah, I wonder. I feel like I've said that and
I've not actually meant it. I've thought that
I meant it. Why are you there if you don't have
expectations? Well, along the lines of that,
a lot of people say, oh, I'm just here to have
fun. Yeah, but you look at athletes' faces out
on the mat and tell me how often you think they're
having fun. Did you ever lie about that? I don't
think I actually said that I was there to have
fun. Maybe I did lie about that. If I said that,
then I was lying. It's like type two fun though,
you know? Like in it, you're not really having
fun. Unless it goes well. Yeah. Yeah, you know?
People always say it. Oh, like I was just there
to have fun and then they won. And it's like,
well, did you win because... Would you have said
that if you were like just missed out on finals
by slipping up matching the last hole? That wouldn't
be so fun, right? I don't know. I do think that...
People say things because it's almost like the
right thing to say especially like I'm just there
to have fun I question that a lot or like I enjoy
it I'm like, do you actually enjoy that? Like
I'm not sure how much of being out on the mats
and it not going well I enjoyed yes when it was
going great and I was like flashing boulders
and it feels wonderful But even that adds a new
layer of pressure and I don't know I think as
well athletes who gain some success that just
piles that pressure on even more you know winning
my first world cup was incredible but it was
also like bittersweet because then suddenly it's
like oh the only way from here is to maintain
yeah otherwise it's disappointment like when
I won my first world cup and people like flitted
in to congratulate me and I got all these messages
and flowers and people were super psyched and
then by like a few if I came second at the next
comp people like oh yeah like whatever you know
like no one cares anymore and then winning a
few more suddenly it's only i guess it's like
outdoor climbing you know i climbed a v14 the
other day and no one cared at all and i was like
okay Thanks, guys. Oh, I'm impressed. A few V14s
ago, everyone cared. I got my flowers, but never
mind, not anymore. I'm impressed. Congrats on
the V14. I appreciate that. But yeah, I guess
it's relative, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, thanks
for the honesty there, because I've always wondered.
So then I guess looking back on your time in
the comm circuit, does any... like do you miss
anything about it or like not miss anything about
it and do you remember anything or do you like
remember any amazing moments where you didn't
win yeah i have so many amazing moments where
i didn't win um because for me i wanted to go
out and give my very best performance and i genuinely
If someone else did better and I walk, so what
I would do is I'd walk off the mats and I'd try
really hard to analyze whether I was happy with
my performance and satisfied. And if I was, then
I'd try really hard not to be disappointed if
I didn't win the gold medal, which didn't always
work. And yeah, there were tears and yeah, it
was hard. But that's what I always really tried
to do. I never wanted to go out and be. Miho
like I wasn't there to beat the person I wouldn't
ever have wanted them to fall off For me to get
gold, you know, like I wasn't there willing someone
to fall I was like, I want you to give your best
performance like I want to beat you on your best
day Not you have a bad day so I can win. I don't
know that was always where I wanted to be and
some of my like fondest memories are competing
with Janya is she was coming through and super
young and this little kid that was like fiery
and you could see she was going to be the best
like we've ever seen you could tell that pretty
early on so to have a couple years where I could
beat her a little bit was quite fun but it was
like very clear it was Janya's era that was coming
and I was like waiting for it and we all knew
but there's some really fond memories of competing
with her but also competing alongside Anna Storr
who was a total legend of the sport who came
kind of before me and I started competing towards
the end of her career and then obviously Akio
Noguchi who competed throughout my entire career
so seeing them win world cup seeing my peers
my friends win a deserved victory I probably
meant as much to me as my gold medals. I think
there was a time where there were five of us
that would always make every single World Cup
final. It was so fun in terms of being there
with your friends and actually fun. You know,
you're like, oh, like we're good friends. Being
out on the mats may be not fun always because
some of the times it would go your way, some
of it wouldn't. But that was a really cool experience
to live. and be an athlete during that time and
to have those relationships and to be part of
something that felt really important for the
sports progression like we were all pushing each
other yeah and there were five of us and then
we'd see like oh who's going to come into finals
this time like who's going to be the number six
and then to create a space that felt welcoming
And bring people in. And I remember really distinctly
my first World Cup final. An athlete called Mina
Markovic came up to me in ISO and was like, hey,
welcome to finals. What do you need? Do you know
what you're doing? Do you understand what's going
to happen? We're all going to go up here and
warm up. Then we're going to do this. Then they're
going to come take us. They'll take us quite
early. So make sure that you have everything
you need. And like talked me through the whole
thing. And I was so nervous. And she just made
it feel like a space that was so comfortable.
And I wanted to try and give that to athletes
that came through into the sport. And I remember
Oceana McKenzie's first World Cup final and like
what it meant to her and to her country for her
to be in that final was so cool to be part of.
Yeah, I have a lot of fond memories there. In
fact, I... I don't remember many of my World
Cup wins thinking about it. I remember those
moments way more than... I'm trying to actually
pull into my brain a World Cup win. Oh, I did
one full flash final in Munich that was cool.
Finals? Yeah, I flashed all four in finals. That
was cool. But I don't really remember any others.
Okay. I'll have to take a look. Yeah, and there's
like 11 of them. Yeah. Okay. Well then, conversely,
what do you not miss about competing? It's funny
because there's not a lot that I'm like, oh.
That's good. Yeah, I don't know. I loved what
I did. I found it hard to travel and be away
from my other half so much. But also I knew that
it was temporary. But my career was, I knew I
wanted a baby at some point. And I didn't want
to come back to comp climbing after having a
baby. I don't miss the politics. Okay. Yeah,
I really don't miss the... As an athlete? Yeah.
Huh. Yeah. So the National Federation politics,
I do not miss that. I don't envy athletes having
to navigate selection. And I think it's so hard
as an athlete to be able to be honest and to
have an opinion that you can speak out loud because
we're in the position where some selections are
subjective, where you can't. kind of your career
is so short right you don't want to jeopardize
your opportunity to get to perform on the biggest
of stages so yeah i don't envy athletes navigating
the politics at all right now yeah yeah that's
always of course And then you also mentioned,
again, wanting to have a baby and wanting to
do that. So I guess we can kind of transition
into that portion. I'm not trying to bring that
up all the time. I mean, it's a very literally
the biggest problem. Yeah. And it's a very important
part of your life. And you also like climbed
throughout your pregnancy. How did you manage
that? Like, was it ever scary for you, especially
like kind of being in the public eye and doing
it? It was never scary for me climbing while
pregnant. It felt very natural. I always knew
I would climb as long as it felt good. I climbed
until the day before Frankie was born. I was
climbing at 7pm on the Sunday and she was born
at 7am on the next Monday morning. I was talking
about this earlier actually because... a few
of the mums at the clinic I ran were asking me
a few questions. Yeah, I remember climbing on
this slab and I tried to do a cross through with
my foot and I couldn't get my foot through. And
I'd done this climb already and I was like, why
can't I get my foot through? So my husband was
like, I guess you need to match feet. And I was
like, no, I could do this a few days ago. But
yeah, it was quite literally Frankie's head in
the way. It's like, oh, OK, you were ready to
come out. And I did the sideways dyno. I jumped
across and I was like, oh, that felt different.
Yeah. But no, for me, climbing felt super safe
and really comfortable because it's something
I know so well. It felt safer than walking down
the street. And it was because I was in control,
not the other people driving, right? The thing
that was totally wild was the internet's reaction
to me climbing. Yeah, that's what I'm wondering.
Yeah, so navigating that was challenging for
me and my manager and my whole team. It was very
intense. I don't think that I regret sharing
or climbing at all. I think it's really important
for people to understand that it's a woman's
choice to do what she wants with her body when
she's pregnant and that her risk assessment will
be relative to her. The thing I struggled most
with wasn't the hate. I know the internet's...
a negative place at times I know people write
things and yeah I try my very best to never bite
I think I bit once during my pregnancy there's
one time I replied to a comment I was like ah
I just don't remember no I don't actually I was
trying to remember what that was I'm sure I could
find it But I had so many people rush into my
defense, which was wonderful. But it was mostly
the narrative of she's a professional athlete,
back off. She's an Olympian, back off. She's
won World Cup medals, back off. And I was like,
no, any woman who chooses to climb during her
pregnancy, that is okay. It doesn't matter if
she's a V3 climber. It doesn't matter if she's
a V0 climber or a V14 climber. It doesn't matter.
They're choosing to climb while they're pregnant.
They're choosing to ride their bike while they're
pregnant. do whatever it is that feels right
to them, that is okay. So actually it was the
defense narrative that I was trying to help shift
as opposed to the negativity. But I still today
get weekly, sometimes daily messages from women
who are pregnant or postpartum who were inspired
to keep climbing during pregnancy or... And often
it's not because they didn't feel like they could,
it's because they were struggling with the narrative
that was surrounding it and the negativity. And
I never once had anyone come up to me in person
and say anything, and I wish they did, because
I would genuinely love to have that conversation.
Not to kind of bite at them, just to be super
curious as to why they think that's a risk. Wow,
yeah, I got some really bad comments. Yeah. Like
people saying they were going to call child services
on me and that I was going to be a bad mom and
I already was because I was risking my daughter's
life and I didn't deserve to be a mom because
I was doing these risky things. I was like, wow,
your perception of risk is interesting. You think
that me climbing a V5 when I'm pregnant is risky,
but okay. Yeah. Interesting. Did you like go
back and forth with your team? Like they were
suggesting that you didn't post about it or was
that? No, my team, I don't have a huge team surrounding
me in terms of like that side of things for the
Olympics. I had an amazing team of support physically,
but my manager and I would talk a lot about what
I was sharing, but I've never been kind of questioned
on whether or not to share something. I do all
my own social media. it's kind of my space and
also i knew that i would keep sharing my life
which is what i choose to do on social and i
was pregnant and i was climbing so i wasn't gonna
hide it yeah um yeah this was a fun one yeah
that's for sure i just feel like i would be terrified
because i mean like miscarriages are terrible
they can happen for any reason and like not be
related to like your exercise or what you're
doing at all and so i'd be terrified that something
bad would happen and then it would be misconstrued
oh of course that's what that yeah like you were
doing this yeah that would be terrifying for
me yeah i think i always just try to be honest
and share my honest kind of appraisal of where
i'm at and what i'm doing um and if i were to
have a miscarriage then i would communicate that
and i'd choose how much i wanted to share around
the the narrative of it. But I think for my mental
health and my physical health, climbing was far
superior to any of the risk it felt of not climbing
because of the judgment of it. You know, like
I needed to keep climbing if I could. I was going
to stop if I felt like I needed to. I know my
body so well. I've been through so many injuries.
I also wasn't falling at the time because I had
a knee injury. um not to say you can't fall whilst
climbing when pregnant some people choose to
i've also had a lot of knee injuries previously
where i know for a fact i can climb on a wall
without falling my ability to risk assess is
incredibly good after a lot of injuries um so
yeah i think for me it was just where i was at
and it was what i was doing and i'm really glad
i was able to climb i had a great birth i had
a pretty simple recovery. Frankie was born at
home in a couple of hours. Yeah, and although
it was definitely the hardest and most painful
thing I've ever done, I feel really lucky that
it went very smoothly. Yeah, who's to say that's
because I climbed, but it didn't have a negative
impact for me personally. I'm glad that went
super well. Yeah, that can always be scary. How
soon after giving birth did you get back into
climbing? So my women's health physio wanted
me to wait six weeks because that's the guidance
in the UK. I waited five, which I think is pretty
good because I felt like I could climb the day
after, to be honest. I felt fine. So I did try
to wait six weeks, but I made it five. Did you
feel any pressure to heal as quickly as possible
because of like the content grind? No, no I didn't
actually. I knew I had goals but first and foremost
my goal was to be the best mum that I could be.
I really wanted to breastfeed if I could. I was
lucky in that journey and was able to. So I was
pretty tired. from lack of sleep and breastfeeding
in the early days. I also knew I needed knee
surgery, so I had double knee surgery at six
months postpartum. The only pressure I felt...
to kind of get strong again was because I really
wanted to be part of the Red Bull dual ascent
experience and they asked me I knew I wasn't
gonna be ready to compete I was five months postpartum
but they asked if I wanted to do the first ascent
so I put pressure on myself to get fit for that
which was really fun okay not bad pressure I
love pressure I love a goal And when I think
about the fact that I climbed that thing at five
months postpartum, it blows my mind. Like I do
not know how I did that. But it was a fun challenge
and it was rope climbing. So I knew there was
no impact because I couldn't take impact on my
knees still at that point. And it was just a
nice way to try and do a bunch of rope climbing,
gain some fitness ahead of having double knee
surgery, which, yeah, at six months postpartum,
I probably wouldn't recommend doing. But I needed
it doing so. Okay, makes sense. Another like
audience question kind of related to this. What
was the most helpful postpartum training tip
or exercise that you did? My most helpful postpartum
training tip would be the breath work that I
got from Joy. So really connecting with expanding
the rib cage and all the breath work to connect
with my body again. Because I think it's really
easy to... get sucked into core strength training
and get into a rhythm of doing stuff but actually
is taking time to do breath work and really expand
our thoracic and like open up here is so useful
to allow for like lots of healing to go on and
lots of connection to happen and i feel like
the postpartum healing is quite natural um i'd
say it wasn't until probably a year that i actually
felt like i was starting to make gains again
and i was starting to recover um every month
i'd be like oh i'm recovered now i need to start
training again to get stronger and i wouldn't
train and then i'd get stronger and i was like
oh my body is still healing okay um so it was
probably like a year to 18 months where i felt
like okay i can start building from here as opposed
to just trying to recover my body um but yeah
the breath work was the biggest tip that i didn't
think about before pregnancy Okay. Helpful information.
I just, I feel like I personally have a lot of
fear with like pregnancy and like climbing. And
so when I grew up, I watched a ton of videos
about pregnancy, like giving birth. No way. So
yeah, this is just, this is all very fascinating.
I mean, I can talk, I could do 10 podcasts on
pregnancy and giving birth. And I think I didn't
have any fear. I wasn't scared about pregnancy.
I wasn't scared about climbing while pregnant.
I wasn't scared about giving birth. I was super
excited about it. as well like I watched a lot
of videos on stuff and I read a lot of birth
stories and I really wanted to have like an unmedicated
home birth if I could which is what I did. Especially
with your epidural experience. Exactly there
was no way I was having an epidural no no possible
way and I know that I always said I had birth
preferences over a birth plan right i know things
don't go to plan and i honestly really thank
my competition days for how kind of structured
i could be around how i wanted my birth to look
but also how i was able to adapt with the flow
of things not changing and shifting because that
is literally what comp i make like because like
you're like this is the plan oh this here's a
curveball his go on his thoughts and it's just
a bit like parenting actually yeah yeah best
easy but parenting is a whole different ball
game How do you balance the training and turns?
I don't know yet. But still bigger than that,
so I'll call that a hat. It's really fun, but
it's definitely a challenge. And I think that
there's been a few sweet spots where it's been
easier, but now Frankie's getting a little older.
She's so inquisitive and intelligent and curious,
and I want to embrace that as much as possible.
But it means that more and more of my time of
training and... Lessa climbing, she's great at
the crag, but training, I need to have my time
and space to do that. So I need to protect space
and time away so that I can really focus because
otherwise I just end up chatting to her about
why I want to use crimps over undercuts because
she's genuinely that curious. And she'll make
boulders and she'll be engaged in what I'm doing,
which I love and I want to embrace that, but
I need time away to be able to focus on it. So
I'm still trying to figure out how that looks
because the past kind of year or so, it's been
fine for her to be around and she's been easily
entertained doing drawing or reading or she stopped
taking naps. Actually, that's been the trickiest
bit. She stopped taking naps. So yeah, I feel
like you figure out one thing when you have a
kid and then something else changes. So yeah,
that's the thing that's changed right now is.
squeezing everything because my husband trains
too yeah we'll have a great nanny she's with
us three days a week but i'm like oh kind of
wish i had nanny five days a week say maybe we
need to find more jogger yeah every year brings
haystack every year every day okay every hour
um i think you kind of uh we're getting into
this earlier and the answer is no but does the
thought ever creep in that you should pull like
a giant can and return to kappa no No way. If
I could maybe compete for a different country,
I'd be interested. No. Because I wouldn't go
anywhere near GB climbing ever again because
of the politics. I think for my own mental health.
Is that something you want to get into? I think
it's just complicated and I actually can't really
get into the state of where it's at right now
because I genuinely don't know. I've pulled away
from that. But... It just wasn't a healthy place
for me to be as an athlete in terms of the way
it was structured and what was coming. And maybe
it's got better. I genuinely don't know. So I
can't speak for what it's like now. But yeah,
for my own sake, no. I don't know. Every now
and then there'll be a team training at the gym.
Oh, maybe I'll jump on the boulders and have
a try. And sometimes I do and I'm... usually
pleasantly surprised but i'm still just i just
not a fan of the circus dinos and now they've
got slippery too right i'm like no thank you
i i do not need to fling myself across a wall
to a slippery volume to eat on my face like i
don't want to like i i dug my time getting work
last show yeah um Many of Tristan like the no
-text holds. That's what I mean. You know, like,
when they're, like, flinging themselves across
the walls, like, catching no -text hold with
a toe hook and do a little backflip and land
on their face. I'm like, no, I'm good, Albert.
I'll talk about it. That's great. It's great.
I love watching. It's great entertainment on
this side. But, no, it was fun at the Olympics
to, like, go down the front, chat through all
the beta, or beta, as we say here. and i can
still read all the boulders and i spied a few
different nuances of maybe you could use this
and do that and do this and the setters sometimes
hadn't thought about it and then the climbers
would do i was like yes i've still got that like
edge of what they might do um and again i feel
like that brings so much to commentary of that
competition mindset of like where an athlete
might go and what they might try um just from
being out there and doing it and I still feel
like I have that connection to the comps, despite
it being a while back. But, well, I'm doing a
board comp next week. Does that make sense? It'll
be my first comp. Well, how was the KSSE comp?
I know, it's a start. In Chattanooga, the Expo.
Yeah, Mad Rock asked me to do a board comp, so
I thought it might be fun. Okay, good luck there.
Maybe it'll spark the excitement and you'll make
a return. No, I think, especially with the sport,
still being very much a two -discipline sport,
or it was when I was coming back to climbing,
and we didn't actually know how many medals we
had and the uncertainty around that. I think
it's difficult for the athletes on the circuit
right now to have that uncertainty. Here we're
in 2025, and LA is in 28, and we still don't
know what athletes are training for. And a three
-year cycle. sounds like a long time but i don't
think it is um but yeah i don't i definitely
don't think i could come back to bouldering yeah
i guess it is a little harder like specifically
for bouldering compared to league climbing to
like get back into it yeah and i'd love to see
like a mum climber make it to the olympics and
you know jay and kim was so painfully close oh
my goodness oh i was devastated for her she is
such a badass and an inspiration. Yeah, it'll
be really cool to see Eugenia Kazbekova's transition
into becoming a mom and see whether she wants
to take on LA. Wouldn't it be so cool? And that's
super inspiring to me. But at the same time,
for me, I always knew I was going to go rock
climbing at some point. I always knew I was going
to quit comps. So my goal was to win a World
Cup. Just one. And I won one. I was like, maybe
I could try to win the overall. And then I did
that. And then I really hurt my shoulder at the
last comp of that year. So 2016, I had a huge
shoulder injury in the finals. So I couldn't
lift my trophy in the air on the podium of the
overall. And I was like, oh, this is my goal.
And I wanted that picture, like holding the trophy
up. So I was like, cool, I'm going to try to
win it again so that I can hold my trophy up.
Because I kind of didn't know what else to do.
I achieved my goal way quicker than I expected.
And then I won it again in 2017. This was like,
oh, shit, that kind of happened quicker than
I planned. Got my trophy held up from the other.
And then the only reason I did the Olympics or
tried to qualify was because a new airways transferred
to rock farming at some point. But I also wanted
to have a baby if I could. My husband, or my
boyfriend at the time, I guess, was like, you
should do the Olympics. You should try to qualify.
Really? Like, you comps are pretty intense. This
is as hard for us as it is for me to compete.
Like, it's a lot of strain on the relationship.
It's a lot of support from him. It's demanding
for us both. The Olympics is only going to intensify
that. And he was like, yeah, but, you know, four
more years, no babies. And I was like, oh, fuck,
okay. Okay, I was like, if I do the Olympics,
then we can have a baby. And it was like, okay,
yeah, that's the plan. Like, try to do the Olympics,
then have a baby, then rock fine. So, you know,
I'm kind of doing exactly what I planned. Okay,
perfect. Yeah. kind of weird that you didn't
want to do the olympics just because it's the
olympics like i didn't it was a three discipline
sport so you know i think if it was bouldering
then yeah i would have been like oh my god i
want to try and do the olympics at school but
it didn't feel like anyone could have that enthusiasm
behind it because it was like who like who the
fuck knows where anyone's going to be i'm actually
thinking you know what because nobody did it
so Like, no one knew how fast Adam Ondra was
in speed. Yeah. Like, was he going to qualify?
He almost didn't qualify, you know? No one knew
who was going to win or how it was going to work.
So when it was announced, there was a buzz, but,
like, this kind of disconcerted, confused buzz,
like, oh, yay, how's this going to work? Who's
going to be where? Like, no one could have called,
like, the men's podium, for example, in Tokyo.
And I think... It's great that our sport was
showcased, but it didn't feel like a pathway
you could have chosen. I don't think anyone was
confident that they were going to make it to
the other pit games, maybe other than Rania.
She's kind of our own lead. But everyone else,
it was like, ooh, are we going to make it? And
a lot of countries were competing for spots against
each other. So there was so much tension there.
So when I qualified super early, that was great.
But we really didn't think that I was going to
be like way up there making a medal performance
in 2019. So when I say I wasn't super excited
to do the Olympics, it's not because I was like,
eh. It was because I was like, oof, like bolder
lead and speed. Like, I don't know who I am as
an athlete across those disciplines. So, yeah,
it just felt so far -fetched and far removed
from who I was at the time. Like I knew I could
win Boulder World Cups and I could keep doing
that for a while maybe. But yeah, to transition
into a three -discipline athlete felt just so
unknown, you know. Yeah, I guess that makes sense.
That's pretty interesting because I feel like
as a viewer, I was kind of just like, well, I
wonder, I want to see like how fast these like
random athletes are doing speed. Yeah, and that's
what it felt. It felt like we're a random athlete
here in speed. We won't speak like this. Like,
some of these transition really well in speed
and could be pretty good, but they're... Wait,
I thought I heard that you did pretty well in
speed, because I talked to Tom Greenall. So,
like, oh, you did, like, your bouldering transition
really well to speed. No, I don't think so. Yeah.
I mean, maybe he's talking about... tokyo um
pachioji at the qualifier uh i got super lucky
so i got a really good speed result in final
which helped me get the bronze medal but my time
wasn't good and i i mean no i don't think i was
very good so you kind of won't return to kai
prime unfortunately so if not that what are you
working towards now what's your next goal right
now my main goals are just to explore how much
I can push myself on rock and where my boundaries
lie. I think in the past year, I've climbed,
I think, five V14s. I don't think any of them
have taken me more than two days. Wow. Okay.
I don't actually think... Yeah. So maybe I need
to try a little harder. I am not someone who
wants to sit under a boulder for a crazy amount
of sessions and kind of really... Push in that
kind of style. So I want to train I want to push
myself physically and find something that I find
challenging and that feels at the right level
Yeah, and I don't know what that is right now
I have a lot of boulders that I want to do that
I want to finish off There's climbs that are
easier than kind of the top grade that I've climbed
in the UK that I want to finish off like v13s
That are just super hard for me. Yeah, you know
the style but I want to do them for the history
and kind of lure. And then there's a couple of
routes that I'd be interested in putting some
time into too. But yeah, I'm just excited to
be a professional climber and go climbing. Not
have any surgeries. That is my main goal, to
have no more surgeries. I had shoulder surgery
last year. Yeah, it was the year before I had
double knee surgery. So I'm just good with surgeries.
I'm done with them. keep getting stronger and
healthier and then i guess i'm also a woman in
my 30s so i have to decide if i want to have
more children or not at some point soon which
is a big question and i get asked all the time
well and i don't know is the answer but i know
i have to decide that and i would like to decide
that soon because i yeah it feels like a huge
thing to make a decision on um and i'm so torn
but it's hard i don't think i would look to come
back to the elite end of bouldering for sure
after another baby so really um i wouldn't look
to try and do that i don't think now is what
i feel like maybe that change in the future why
is that just because like because it's so hard
yeah and it's like i don't think i had a tough
time of it in terms of birth pregnancy pregnancy
birth recovery i had a great run um but it was
still so hard and you know what it's so often
like guys that have kids are like are you gonna
have another one you bounced back so quick last
time and i'm like you i did not bounce back yeah
like i grinded away and i pushed so hard and
it wasn't easy and i do try to share that obviously
not very well um because a lot of people think
like oh your comeback was pretty smooth and it
was pretty simple and i'm like no i did have
a double knee surgery in there and it's like
oh well that it's even smoother if you had that
too and I'm like oh no it was really difficult
and it takes so much strain and so much support
from those around me that I don't think I'd want
to do that again um in terms of coming back to
the elite end of pushing and climbing hard consistently
outdoors because that's something that I'm really
proud of that I can do now is I can climb hard
and I'm doing a lot of hard climbs outdoors too
um But no, I don't know is the answer. Makes
sense. To all of those questions. All right.
I mean, everyone says they would love to be a
parent if they get to be the dad, so. Oh, do
they? Yeah. Oh, I love being a mum. Oh my gosh,
being a mum is the best ever. It's all the effort
you've got to put in. Yeah, it is so hard. It's
exhausting. I have a whole new appreciation for
the word tired and I feel... offended when teenagers
tell me they're tired because I'm like, you don't
know. But I was that teenager. So yeah, I wouldn't
change being a mom for the world. I would never,
ever wish my life to be different. I adore being
a mom. It's the best thing ever. But it's exhausting.
And yeah, I loved growing a human and I loved
giving birth, even though it was savage. But
The bond I have with my daughter and the goals
I have around parenting. I feel really really
fortunate to have that But yeah, it's not easy.
Mm -hmm well excited to see what the whole future
holds for you. Thank you Okay, so let's get into
a few of the quick audience questions. We got
three here. So in regards to Adidas trimming
back on their climbing sponsorships, sorry that
that happened. No, it's okay. What are your thoughts
on sponsorship and how it differs between climbing
niche brands, brands that are well represented
in extreme sports and more mainstream fitness
slash consumer brands? And do you think women
climbers are in a better or worse position than
in other sports for sponsorship? I feel like
that's a lot of questions in one. It is. Which
one do you want me to answer? I guess let's do
how it differs between climbing specific brands
versus extremes for its brands. I think I got
a lot of views into how it differs between climbing
specific brands in the mainstream world during
the Olympics and working with different brands.
I think our sport's in a big transition phase
as we're coming into the Olympics and brands
are becoming more interested. I guess in terms
of climbing brands and more extreme sports brands.
I'm not too sure who the extreme sports brands
are, maybe Red Bull, like I worked with Red Bull
and have done for a long time. They are by far
the most supportive big brand I've worked with.
I've had so much support from them in terms of
physically and recovery wise surgeries and also
they build a really great team around you and
like an athlete team. Yeah, I absolutely adore
working with Red Bull. They do so much for athletes
that I genuinely get, like I want to put my cap
on, like I want to represent them because they
are such an important brand in helping you build
up to get to where you want to be. They really
align with you on your goals. And yeah, I'm incredibly
proud to be a Red Bull athlete. I think it's
really good that they're in climbing and they're
pushing into different spheres too. to have that
network and connection of different athletes
from different sports is so privileged to be
in that like kind of community of athletes you
know Red Bull UK feels like a real family to
me um so yeah I really love working with them
um and then I've worked with a few different
brands in the mainstream world but it's been
quite fleeting because that's often the way with
the Olympics you pick up Olympic sponsors and
then that transitions and differs and right now
I don't know who I'll look to work with next
in terms of apparel or if I will I think it feels
still quite raw and fresh to be navigating this
space of like post adidas with the ending being
not what I expected so yeah I think climbing
specific brands are Trying to grow a lot at the
minute with the way the sport is growing and
I think that it's cool to see a lot Of sport
for athletes, but it'd be nice to see more. Mm
-hmm. Yeah, do you feel like the adidas thing
kind of happened because of I guess like the
pregnancy and birth and I have I don't know I
still don't know the reason why they didn't continue
my contract And it was quite unexpected. I was
literally at an athlete camp in November in like
HQ where the head of Terrax came and sat us down
and said how important we are and how lucky we
are to be part of the family. So yeah, to find
out two weeks later that I wasn't going to be
part of that family I was lucky to be part of
was really not expected. Yeah, it's the most
like... humiliated and uncomfortable I've ever
been made to feel by a brand um and I'm just
I'm disappointed but I just really hope that
that doesn't happen to future athletes because
like adidas's goal is through sport they have
the power to change lives so I hope that they
do that in a positive way and not a negative
way um but for me now where I am I think it's
just trying to align with brands who understand
my values and are aligned with who i am as an
athlete and yeah it's tricky because i think
that being a mum is what people sometimes see
first and i yeah i'm a professional athlete too
you know i'm kind of pushing at the elite end
of our sport and doing a lot of first female
ascents All of the V14s I've climbed recently
are first female ascents. So I'm like, guys,
I feel like I'm still doing it as a professional
athlete, not just a mum professional athlete.
And I think that navigating that space is a little
tricky sometimes. Well, I'm sorry for that abrupt
end. My gosh. Yeah, me too. well and i guess
also like shout out to madrock for putting together
this interview yeah and madrock have been incredible
they've supported me so much and working with
them is really fun um it feels still new and
fresh but it's been a couple of years now and
um i've worked with other brands in the climbing
community um the climbing hangar who support
me as well um they have been incredible too um
and madrock's vision is so innovative and so
unique that I feel like I'm still grasping the
scope of it because they are really pushing into
so many different areas and what they're doing
with shoes and also looking into other areas
I don't know how much I'm allowed to say so I'm
like oh can I say things but um yeah it's just
been so fun uh to be here in LA to hear what
they're doing and why they're doing it and actually
to feel a sense of community that they've built
here and to be meeting some of the younger athletes
on the team. And yeah, I'm really excited for
my future with Medrock and I absolutely adore
what they're doing and how they're doing it.
I really want to work with brands that I align
with and that want to work with me for me and
share the vision that I have. So yeah, I feel
lucky to be doing that now. It's very unique.
Um, okay. So next one, how much do you emphasize
being well -rounded as a climber now that you
weren't competing anymore? So like, would you
rather prioritize sending the hardest problems
you can in your style or do you still try to
do like, Oh gosh, that's a great question. Thank
you to whoever asked that. And it's something
that I actually talked to my husband about a
lot because he. Tries to he wants to climb like
the best -looking climbs and what he thinks of
his cool lines So it doesn't matter too much
on style for him He's like inspired by the line
which I'm inspired by but also then as a shorter
climber There's a lot that I can't do. Yeah,
there's a lot of styles that I know don't suit
me. I Think I try to train my weaknesses so that
I can become a better climber but ultimately
a lot of the hard climbs I've done are crimps
on overhand because I know I'm good at it, it's
kind of my wheelhouse. But then some of them
are powerful and there's climbs that don't suit
me that I'm like okay I'm gonna go try really
hard on this and I want to climb it for this
reason so yes and no. Okay. I think I steer towards
climbs that make me feel good and I feel like
I can try hard on but I also really want to climb
as much as possible. Okay. and I recently did
a v13 in the UK that's just this super huge powerful
move on really bad feet and a guy commented on
my Instagram like I did not have you down to
do the second descent of this like this is like
a burly like Jim Pope boulder and I was like
I don't actually know what you mean by this like
I don't know whether I should be complimented
or offended and then I thought actually me neither
like no I probably wouldn't have gone and tried
this if I didn't have some encouragement because
I'd almost written it off as like that is way
too powerful for me that is such a huge move
and such a weird box to fit in but I'm glad I
tried it and it took me a couple of sessions
and it was really satisfying to do so yeah hence
why it's yes I don't know I do gravitate towards
stuff that's in my style but I'm trying to do
more in different styles okay But still avoiding
the no -tanks indoor boulders. Yeah. Today a
kid was like, can you show me this comp style
dyno? And I was like, no, I don't have to do
that shit anymore. I didn't swear at the child.
But no, I just don't have to do that anymore.
It's great. I'm like, no, I'm not going to show
you. I can't do it and I don't want to. But yeah,
at the gym, I generally, I'll make around an
entire circuit. So in the gyms I climb up. all
one color will be the same grade. So I'll go
around the whole circuit and I'll try and do
them all. And I will try and do the dinos as
long as I don't feel like I'm going to land on
my face. Okay. Makes sense. All right. Last question.
What is one of your controversial or unpopular
climbing opinions? Ooh, I feel like I should
have been prepared for this. Oh, sorry. It used
to be that I didn't like fun, but I do like it
now. And that's because I just had so many trips
where I sat in the rain. Yeah. So people used
to think that I was ridiculous for not liking
font. But then I went and had like a month of
sun there when I was pregnant and I climbed all
the easy stuff and it was glorious. Unpopular
climbing opinions. I mean, that's a pretty good
one. Yeah. I did change my mind. Okay. Yeah.
So we need a new one. Yeah. Hmm. I don't know.
I feel like. Any of my friends would probably
pull up like 20 of them because I feel like I
have a lot, but they're so normal for me. Yeah.
Well, if you ever think of any. Yeah, I'll let
you know. I'll have a little think about that.
Yeah. Okay. I feel like I must have quite a lot,
actually. Yeah, it's hard to think of in the
moment. I was trying to like get at it a couple
of days ago, but I think you said - Do you have
anything? Oh, see? That's not fair. Yes, it is.
That's not fair. I didn't think my answer for
this. I mean, I feel like my most unpopular climbing
opinion is just that I love comp climbing. And
it's even, like, maybe unpopular amongst comp
climbers. What, that they don't love comp climbing?
Yeah. I just don't. I hate watching climbing.
Like, I don't watch climbing films. I watch the
comps sometimes. Like, I do watch the comps a
bit. But you know, like climbing films, and I
think I got into this a little bit recently.
So basically outdoor climbing films, I just don't
like watching. And I think because when I grew
up, it was all white dudes with their tops off
screaming. And I was like, why? As like a little
seven -year -old kid, would I want to watch that?
And I've been so off -put by the world of outdoor,
like comp, like rock climbing films. I'm like,
ugh, like no. I do watch the comps when they're
at reasonable hour. but no rock climbing films
i've just been so off -put by all the old -school
screamy yeah dudes yeah with their tops off i
guess that is true so maybe that's controversial
okay i just don't like watching climbing that's
pretty controversial yeah i get the outdoor yeah
like rock climbing well i guess my thing is a
little more specific in that i don't really Climb
outside so I don't watch outdoor climbing in
general. Yeah, I'm literally a professional rock
climber who hates watching rock climbing Yeah,
that makes sense. Okay. That's a good one. That's
a good one to end on Okay, so that's all the
questions I had. Thanks so much for joining me
Any last -minute like words of wisdom you want
to get out there? Um, I think my words of wisdom
would be that you don't have to define who you
are and how you're doing it you know there's
so many different ways to do things and right
now i'm a professional rock climber i've just
launched a company with my husband we've just
launched foxy i sit on the executive board for
our international federation i worked as a trustee
on a charity for 10 years climbers against cancer
i ran the women's climbing symposium for 13 years
and founded that event which has had So many
different events that have brought women together
across the community. We're about to launch another
company with Frankie, our daughter, that is climbing
specific, which will be coming soon. And I think
that it's easy to get sucked into thinking you
have to be one thing. And there are so many different
ways to navigate the kind of world today. And
you can be whoever. it is that you want to be
there are so many options and i think from when
i was younger i didn't realize that so much okay
awesome great word to end on um anything else
you want to shout out or let people know where
they can find you um put links in the description
too yeah i mean if you want to find me you'll
find me i'm on instagram that's kind of the only
place i post but no i think for me there's a
lot that i'm getting up to and i feel like you
know if you want to figure out and find me then
you will but i don't know there's not much else
to add well awesome thank you again it was amazing
to talk to you oh thank you and it's really cool
what you're doing with this good work thank you
and i love the name yeah that's that that's the
main thing that's like my main claim to fame
yeah i think you have a great name for this podcast
because yeah jumping around on slidey volumes
it's not real climbing you either No, I'm going
to leave that one in. Thanks. Thank you so much
for making it to the end of the podcast. Don't
forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed.
Otherwise, you are a super big climber. If you're
listening on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate
if you rate it five stars and you can continue
the discussion on the free competition climbing
discord linked in the description. Thanks again
for listening.