WEBVTT

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Boy meets girl, girl's a rock climber, says,

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if you want to date me, you better learn how

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to rock climb. Had almost hit a few people on

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bicycles and I was like really in denial on the

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fact of like how little I couldn't see. Great,

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now my kids are never going to look up to me.

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I'm just going to be this blind guy who can't

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do anything. And, you know, my kids are never

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going to think I'm a superhero or nothing. I

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like finished the climb. I come down, I look

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at Katie. I'm like, what the hell was Rachel's

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problem? Like, what was so serious? She's like,

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well, you basically just told Jakob Schubert

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to fuck off. There's no money in it. So someone

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has to kind of take the loss to build the space

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for us. So I think we're all very appreciative

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of the people that do this for us. Welcome to

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another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing

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podcast. I'm your host, Jinni, and I'm excited

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to introduce my guest for today, Chaz Misuraca.

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Chaz is a blind para climber from Team Canada

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and is in the B3 category, meaning he has about

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10 % of his sight left. What's crazy is that

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he didn't start climbing until after he lost

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his vision. In this episode, we'll learn about

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his rocky journey, losing his vision at 32 years

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old and struggling with alcoholism, how to lead

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belay blind, and we'll hear some stories about

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run -ins with famous climbers that he doesn't

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know because he can't watch climbing content.

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There are so many things I have never considered

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about visual impairments when it comes to climbing,

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so I hope you enjoy this episode with Chaz. Real

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quick, I'm excited to announce my new sponsor

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helping make this podcast episode possible, Mad

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already wearing them, like Oscar Beaudrin from

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period of time, and I'm actually super impressed

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with the grip of their in -house rubber. And

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of course, the famous drone heel that everyone

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says is the cheat code to heel hooking small

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questions about the shoes or sizing, and you

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10 % off your entire MedRock order. Info will

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be in the description. Back to the show. In general,

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how was your day today? You said you're like

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in a training stint right now. i am yeah um i

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actually just got home from the gym i actually

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was just skiing for the last two days so oh body's

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kind of sore from that but aside from that everything's

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going well yeah so like climbing training yeah

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well i've also had two surgeries in the last

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you know 10 months i think so i'm still doing

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a bunch of physio for that which is pretty annoying

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um i had hip surgery and a shoulder surgery but

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i'm in the midst of just doing the full Body

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exercise. And then I'm going to the climbing

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gym this afternoon. Afternoon chatting with you.

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Did you get like injured? Is that why you need

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surgery? Yeah, I don't know about my hip. I've

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had a hip pain for since like before high school

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type of thing. And then I tore my labrum, some

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rotator cuff stuff in my shoulder climbing a

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few years ago. Never got it looked at. And then

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once I started competitively climbing. I decided

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I needed to actually go to the doctor. For the

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last, like, two years, I couldn't do a pull -up.

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Oh, wow. Which you can't really climb super hard

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when you can't. I mean, it made me a better climber,

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actually, because beforehand I would just muscle

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through things. So I had to be more technical.

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So I'm really looking forward to how my climbing

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will be once I'm fully healed. which will be

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a while still like they end up having to remove

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part of my bicep tendon like three centimeters

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of it and reattach it um and fix a tear in my

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labrum but yeah once i got that looked at they

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found all these injuries i was like maybe i should

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get my hip looked at because it's hurting worse

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a lot of days and then i'd get like some bone

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spurs ground off my femur so yeah i was a bit

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of a mess for a while i'm back to climbing now

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um i technically i'm not supposed to be climbing

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yet i haven't really been cleared by a doctor

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but i'm just listening to my body and climbing

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at the best of my ability without uh overdoing

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things yeah better to be able to climb in the

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future rather than get a little bit of training

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in now yeah same as like when i was skiing the

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last two days i'm like in the back of my head

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worried about falling and then setting myself

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back so luckily everything went well and body's

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feeling pretty good i mean i was pretty stiff

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this morning but um after the workout this morning

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i'm feeling pretty good yeah and so like what

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does climbing training look like for you right

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now it's uh mostly just working with my collar

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quite frequently and getting that down and just

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i mean it started off i'm gradually increasing

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it At first I was like, I'm not going to climb

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anything over 5 '9", then nothing over 5 '10",

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and then we've just been kind of slowly amping

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it up. Basically just like getting lots of miles

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in right now, it seems, without overdoing it.

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Trying to leave the gym not sore. But we're going

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on a climbing trip next week to Bermuda, so I

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need to be... I didn't know there was climbing

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in Bermuda. Yeah, no one really does. so my friend

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jazz who's been my caller for the last two or

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three comps is born and raised in bermuda and

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you know there's a lot of like i mean i've never

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been there but from what she has told me a lot

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of like really good deep water solo and there's

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i want to say bolted roots but i know they also

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use she calls it knots i think they call maybe

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they literally are no threads they literally

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thread rope through cracks and stuff and you

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clip the rope from what i believe or from what

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i understand apparently it's not sketchy um they

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do replace it i guess sometimes and actually

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another para climber i read this in the guidebook

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they were referring to jim hewing who was a sterling

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ropes engineer and i guess i sent him some rope

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and he did some tests on it and it had been on

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the cliff for like 10 years and it still didn't

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fail like eventually it failed obviously but

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was still very safe to be climbing on even though

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it's it's in the weather it's in the sun it's

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in the salt so that's why they do that because

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like if you use titanium bolts which are expensive

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um so yeah there's not a ton of development that

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has happened there i think it's all been done

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by like one or two people um like jazz has been

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one of the main climbers down there um so yeah

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i'm excited to go check it out but i'm bringing

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a fishing pole with me that way if my arm does

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get sore and such i think it's all like pretty

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stout climbing so that way i'm not forcing myself

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to continue climbing can you like have fun i

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can essentially you're climbing like on the seashore

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the whole time um that's where the cliffs and

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stuff are so yeah it sounds i'm getting sore

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i'll just fish yeah and the water there is beautiful

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from what i've heard and sand is gorgeous so

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It should be a pretty fun time. And before we

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get too much into things, for those who don't

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know you, I guess first, what is your disability

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and then how did you get into climbing and competing?

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So I guess my name is Chas Mazuraka. I am Canadian

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and I'm a blind rock climber. So being blind

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is my disability. I have about five to 10 % of

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my sight left. Like both eyes are a little different.

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I have a hereditary disease called LHON, which

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stands for Leber's Hereditary Optic Neuropathy.

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I was 32 years old when I lost 90 % of my vision.

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I'm now 38. So like six years ago, we'll say.

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The way it worked is February of 2018, I started

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losing sight in my left eye. And by the summertime,

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I quit driving and my right eye had basically

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caught up. My left eye is a little worse. Like

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I classify as a B2. So I essentially explain

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in international blind sports, there's three

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different categories. B1 is zero vision. B2 is

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5 % or less. And B3 is 10 % or less. I guess

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that's another thing a lot of people probably

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wouldn't know. I know I did not until I lost

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my vision, is that most people that are blind,

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I think it's like 8 % of people who identify

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as being blind have zero vision. Like there's

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very few B1s. A lot of people, vision loss is

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a huge spectrum. I have no central vision. There's

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people who have central vision. It's like they

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look through straws type of thing and have even

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less vision than I do, but yet they can see and

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read something, you know, like 20 -20 vision,

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but only through little holes. Where mine is

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basically just really blurry. I can see out of

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my periphery, which is, you know, not just left

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and right, like up and down as well. Essentially

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there's like a void in the center of it. And

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my brain's just kind of learned to adapt. I kind

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of like look around things, my eyes shuffle a

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bit. And I've never seen it in clearly. Like

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even if I stick my hand out, like I can see my

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hand is here, but I can't actually see like my

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individual fingers on it, but I can tell as a

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whole it's there. And maybe imagine being in

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a swimming pool with no goggles on and opening

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your eyes, you can see. stuff that's in the pool

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if you're close enough to it but you can't actually

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see anything clearly if that makes any sense

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you try it next time you're in a pool or the

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ocean I hate opening my eyes in a pool yeah it

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hurts it uh so yeah so I didn't know my family

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carried this and after they finally found because

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it's such a rare disease seven people a year

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in Canada get diagnosed with it so it took I

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mean, man, I started seeing doctors in February.

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I wasn't diagnosed with it until December. So

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almost a year just because, and even when I was

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diagnosed, the doctor knew so little about it.

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She like had told me some false information,

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actually really, really devastating information

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in the sense of I have two sons and she had told

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me that they were both going to go blind, which,

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which isn't true. So like I lived with that for

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like a month or two. I remember I was pretty

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like rattled about that. Cause it was like, who

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tells someone that unless you're like absolutely

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certain. Yeah. That's weird. Yeah. I, and actually

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it's kind of funny. She's a rock climber and

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actually climbs at the gym. One of the gyms I

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train at. Oh, interesting. I haven't crossed

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paths with her yet. I was telling this story

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to someone and I said her name and she was like,

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Oh wow. Like she climbs here. I won't say her

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name, but one of these days I'm going to tell

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her that she, she misinformed me. So she doesn't

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know that that's not true still? I'm not too

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sure. I haven't asked her. Hopefully she's learned.

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But I mean, if she's never been told, that's

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false. So how do you find out that that's not

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true? I got moved on to another specialist. I

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had to see a neuro -ophthalmologist, which she

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is, to get my diagnosis. And then there's one

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doctor in Canada who's part of a research team.

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um out of like ucla in italy like they have they

00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:40.000
work out of america and italy some specialists

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researching this and the one i see in ottawa

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and he knows pretty well the most about this

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disease out of like three people in the world

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so he then informed me that that is not true

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um like on a biological level it's passed on

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through like the x chromosome And I don't have

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that or produce that, I suppose. It's been a

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while since it's been explained to me, but you

00:13:10.269 --> 00:13:14.029
know, in the making of a baby, I do not pass

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on the X chromosome. So yeah. You lost your sight

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pretty late in life. Do you remember a lot of

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like, what was life like before versus after

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losing your vision? And in terms of like how

00:13:25.789 --> 00:13:28.169
you felt during that transition process? Yeah,

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it was way different. So I'm, a licensed diesel

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mechanic and I had just like a pretty basic normal

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life we'll call it you know I grew up in a small

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town and just yeah I just worked all the time

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was in like this echo chamber a journalist wrote

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like an article about me and titled that I had

00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:48.879
to go blind in order to see like I asked him

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where he came up with that title and he's like

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well you said that to me when I was interviewing

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you and it kind of makes sense because I didn't

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I wasn't exposed to, I guess, a lot of things.

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I lived literally in this little community, in

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my little echo chamber of like -minded humans,

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we'll say. And I never met a blind person before,

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never met anyone else with other disabilities.

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It's not that I avoided people. I just was never

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in crowds or scenarios where we were crossing

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paths. And yeah, my whole life literally changed.

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Was always kind of like seeking, making more

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money and having a better title at work and things

00:14:32.470 --> 00:14:34.330
like that. And then my whole life just kind of

00:14:34.330 --> 00:14:37.830
like imploded on itself. It's actually, you asked

00:14:37.830 --> 00:14:39.470
me, I didn't answer. How did I get into rock

00:14:39.470 --> 00:14:43.190
climbing? Yeah. It's kind of like a classic tale

00:14:43.190 --> 00:14:46.610
of boy meets girl. Girl's a rock climber says,

00:14:46.889 --> 00:14:48.889
if you want to date me, you better learn how

00:14:48.889 --> 00:14:52.090
to rock climb. Oh, really? Yeah. So I was like

00:14:52.090 --> 00:14:55.070
working at a shop. And my ex -girlfriend had

00:14:55.070 --> 00:14:57.909
came there to get a heater installed in her van

00:14:57.909 --> 00:15:01.450
she was building out to then move into and work

00:15:01.450 --> 00:15:06.710
and live out of. And during that, me working

00:15:06.710 --> 00:15:08.850
on her van, she had told me this whole like dream

00:15:08.850 --> 00:15:12.029
of traveling around, climbing, working. I'd never

00:15:12.029 --> 00:15:14.230
met any rock climbers before. I kind of thought

00:15:14.230 --> 00:15:17.470
it was just like far -fetched. Only crazy people

00:15:17.470 --> 00:15:21.309
do that and didn't really understand anything

00:15:21.309 --> 00:15:25.399
about climbing. And, you know, she was, like,

00:15:25.419 --> 00:15:26.759
very passionate about it, explained it all to

00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:33.340
me. And then we, I guess, started dating. It's

00:15:33.340 --> 00:15:35.320
kind of, like, a weird... At the end of the day,

00:15:35.340 --> 00:15:36.779
I had, like, given her my phone number because

00:15:36.779 --> 00:15:39.039
I thought we had this really good connection.

00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:42.860
And I even, like, asked her, like, out for dinner

00:15:42.860 --> 00:15:48.679
that night. And she said no. And then I... I

00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:50.080
had a broken ankle at the time. So I was like

00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:52.259
rolling around the shop in an office chair. My

00:15:52.259 --> 00:15:55.240
goodness. And she then, I was supposed to have

00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:57.279
surgery on the Monday because it's on a Friday.

00:15:57.980 --> 00:16:00.179
And she had then like messaged me to see how

00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:03.519
my surgery went. And then from there, we started

00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:04.919
chatting. And then like a couple weeks later,

00:16:05.019 --> 00:16:08.820
she came down to visit me. And we started dating.

00:16:08.899 --> 00:16:10.519
And I was already blind in one eye at this point.

00:16:10.940 --> 00:16:13.919
Just one eye though? Yeah. Because this was in

00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:18.450
like late June, early July. And I was still getting

00:16:18.450 --> 00:16:20.549
passed around from like doctor to doctor trying

00:16:20.549 --> 00:16:23.750
to figure out why I couldn't see. I was still

00:16:23.750 --> 00:16:26.429
in the mindset of like, oh, like it's just something.

00:16:27.090 --> 00:16:29.470
At first I thought I just scratched my eye at

00:16:29.470 --> 00:16:33.750
work. Like I've had to get things drilled out

00:16:33.750 --> 00:16:36.370
of my eye before, like rust rings, like getting

00:16:36.370 --> 00:16:39.610
steel in my eye at work. Oh my gosh. Right. So

00:16:39.610 --> 00:16:41.590
I just thought it was just a workplace hazard

00:16:41.590 --> 00:16:46.620
and was like, oh, it eventually goes away. was

00:16:46.620 --> 00:16:49.799
really optimistic that everything would just

00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:55.440
work out and then yeah her and I started dating

00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:57.340
and because I had a broken ankle she was like

00:16:57.340 --> 00:16:59.259
you know I'm gonna cut you some slack on the

00:16:59.259 --> 00:17:03.059
climbing but once you heal if if we're ever going

00:17:03.059 --> 00:17:05.079
to work out you need to rock climb because that's

00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:08.500
all I like to do and so I was like yeah yeah

00:17:08.500 --> 00:17:11.079
it's fine like I can get into this rock climbing

00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:13.880
thing maybe like a few weeks later I then like

00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:18.119
went to go to work one morning And I, like, looked

00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:20.779
left and right when I went to pull out onto the

00:17:20.779 --> 00:17:23.079
road. And, like, I couldn't see. And I was, like,

00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:25.619
rubbing my eyes. And I was, like, holy shit.

00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:28.079
Like, I had then, like, prior to that in the

00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:30.539
last, like, week had almost hit a few people

00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:33.400
on bicycles. Oh, my gosh. And I was, like, really

00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:35.140
in denial on the fact of, like, how little I

00:17:35.140 --> 00:17:38.799
couldn't see. And I kind of, like, broke down,

00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:41.920
started crying and stuff. And I called my work

00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:45.420
and told them. And they were, like, yeah, like.

00:17:45.930 --> 00:17:48.809
We've noticed that everyone around me could tell

00:17:48.809 --> 00:17:51.150
I couldn't see very well. Oh, man. Even though

00:17:51.150 --> 00:17:55.089
I just sort of didn't want to think about that,

00:17:55.150 --> 00:17:58.990
I suppose. Yeah, that's scary. Mm -hmm. But then,

00:17:59.190 --> 00:18:01.109
yeah, at that point, I was still, like, months

00:18:01.109 --> 00:18:04.470
away from seeing a neuro -ophthalmologist. And

00:18:04.470 --> 00:18:08.710
then, yeah, her and I moved, like, up north.

00:18:08.769 --> 00:18:13.089
I then did a lot of drinking and avoiding the

00:18:13.089 --> 00:18:17.799
fact of what was happening to me. And kind of

00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:19.359
went to like a bit of a dark place for a while.

00:18:19.420 --> 00:18:22.480
But then during that time also like helped build

00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:26.440
out this van. I then got into a clinical trial.

00:18:27.140 --> 00:18:30.920
Actually, I should back up a bit. I then was

00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:36.140
told I probably had LHON. And then my sister

00:18:36.140 --> 00:18:42.079
had found an LHON Canada group that was meeting

00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:45.819
in Ottawa in a couple of weeks. I was just like,

00:18:45.819 --> 00:18:48.140
oh, I don't want to go to that. Whatever. And

00:18:48.140 --> 00:18:50.819
Tara was like, well, I wanted to take you rock

00:18:50.819 --> 00:18:53.599
climbing in Gatineau for the first time. So my

00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:56.559
ankle was starting to heal. And Gatineau was

00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:58.039
like just on the other side of the bridge from

00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:01.380
Ottawa. So she kind of like lied to me a bit

00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:04.259
in the sense of like, we're going there anyways.

00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:07.559
We might as well stop in Ottawa. And if this

00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:10.660
meeting sucks, then we can just leave. So my

00:19:10.660 --> 00:19:12.319
sister and her were on my case about it. And

00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:15.589
then I finally agreed to that. And I walked in,

00:19:15.710 --> 00:19:20.289
never have met a blind person before. It was

00:19:20.289 --> 00:19:23.450
pretty sad. I thought very low of myself because

00:19:23.450 --> 00:19:25.990
I'd only ever seen a blind person in a movie.

00:19:26.069 --> 00:19:29.170
And it's either one of two things. You're either

00:19:29.170 --> 00:19:34.250
this crazy superhero or you're this very feeble,

00:19:34.349 --> 00:19:39.069
inactive, can't do anything type of thing. And

00:19:39.069 --> 00:19:40.509
I kind of thought that's what my life is going

00:19:40.509 --> 00:19:44.930
to be. And then I go there, and this first man

00:19:44.930 --> 00:19:47.769
I meet is all happy and walks up to me, and he's

00:19:47.769 --> 00:19:49.809
like, hey, man, do you play hockey? I was like,

00:19:49.869 --> 00:19:52.470
well, I used to. I can't anymore. He's like,

00:19:52.509 --> 00:19:53.529
well, just because your eyes don't work doesn't

00:19:53.529 --> 00:19:55.569
mean your legs stop working. And I thought he

00:19:55.569 --> 00:19:57.329
was sighted. I was like, this guy's a prick.

00:19:57.509 --> 00:20:00.170
Get him away from me. And then a bit later, he

00:20:00.170 --> 00:20:02.690
was on stage giving a speech, talked about how

00:20:02.690 --> 00:20:04.789
he rollerbladed across Canada and how he plays

00:20:04.789 --> 00:20:07.849
for Team Canada in hockey. And I looked at her,

00:20:07.890 --> 00:20:08.869
and I was like, well, that sounds like that prick

00:20:08.869 --> 00:20:11.390
I was talking to. She's like, well, that is him.

00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:13.279
I said, well, I need to talk to him again. Like,

00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:16.440
how is he walking around here so freely and he's

00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:18.319
all happy? Like who could be happy with their

00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:20.319
vision like this? And like everyone here sees

00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:24.259
the same, like kind of. And then I get talking

00:20:24.259 --> 00:20:34.259
to Mark DeMontis, this is his name. Sorry. He

00:20:34.259 --> 00:20:38.759
like very positively impacted my life. Yeah.

00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:42.740
He invited me to come to a blind hockey game,

00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:45.640
which I was like, that's going to be a joke.

00:20:46.220 --> 00:20:47.720
A bunch of blind players are going to be skating

00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:52.119
into one another. And he was right, just because

00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:53.880
your eyes don't work doesn't mean your legs stop

00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:56.619
working. Because everyone's ripping around the

00:20:56.619 --> 00:21:00.319
rink. They've all learned how to listen to the

00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.619
puck and to each other and communicate. And there

00:21:03.619 --> 00:21:05.359
really isn't any collisions. I mean, it does

00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:07.680
happen, but it even happens in sighted hockey.

00:21:10.340 --> 00:21:13.440
And, and yeah, then like, I never rock climbed

00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:18.500
before my sight loss. So I went to Gatineau and

00:21:18.500 --> 00:21:22.180
climbed outdoors there and it was absolutely

00:21:22.180 --> 00:21:27.980
amazing. Yeah. Like, because I didn't climb before,

00:21:28.180 --> 00:21:33.119
I couldn't relate to how hard it was compared

00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:36.500
to when I could do it. Like, for example, like

00:21:36.500 --> 00:21:41.259
everything else. I would take for granted like

00:21:41.259 --> 00:21:44.299
things like brushing my teeth. Yeah. You don't

00:21:44.299 --> 00:21:46.960
think about like putting toothpaste on the toothbrush.

00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:50.799
So it's been a while since I've thought of some

00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:53.740
of these things. No. Okay. Yeah. Take as much

00:21:53.740 --> 00:21:57.299
time as you need. And definitely like how far

00:21:57.299 --> 00:21:59.900
you've come since then. Yeah. It's crazy actually.

00:22:00.460 --> 00:22:03.420
Cause I was like Savick this all the time. Oh

00:22:03.420 --> 00:22:09.259
wow. Yeah. And it was really hard on myself.

00:22:09.740 --> 00:22:11.740
I'd be like, I can't even put toothpaste on my

00:22:11.740 --> 00:22:15.559
toothbrush. How pathetic am I? And again, I meet

00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:18.299
a buddy of mine at hockey and I'm like, why didn't

00:22:18.299 --> 00:22:20.759
you come up with this? I'll never forget. Joey's

00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:23.259
like, bro, just squirt it in your mouth. And

00:22:23.259 --> 00:22:27.000
I was like, oh wow. Yeah. Like brilliant. Is

00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.299
that how you do it now? Yeah. And now I don't

00:22:29.299 --> 00:22:31.680
cry when I brush my teeth. I just squirt it in

00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:36.710
my mouth and it's like so easy. But anyways,

00:22:37.009 --> 00:22:41.170
I, you know, rock climbing, I couldn't compare

00:22:41.170 --> 00:22:45.210
how hard it had gotten with sight loss because

00:22:45.210 --> 00:22:47.289
I didn't do it before. Everything else I had

00:22:47.289 --> 00:22:50.569
to pretty well relearn. And climbing, you know,

00:22:50.589 --> 00:22:55.029
got me out in nature. I had to like try hard,

00:22:55.250 --> 00:22:59.269
climb these like epic things. And yeah, it was

00:22:59.269 --> 00:23:01.289
just quiet. I had to be like a lure in my thoughts

00:23:01.289 --> 00:23:03.630
or like essentially like remove the thoughts

00:23:03.630 --> 00:23:07.359
that quieted my mind. Um, I was just like in

00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:10.019
the moment trying to figure out where the next

00:23:10.019 --> 00:23:14.019
hold is. How do I move here? Um, so it was very

00:23:14.019 --> 00:23:17.420
calming. So in a way it was, it was a lot better

00:23:17.420 --> 00:23:20.259
that you didn't get to experience it before going

00:23:20.259 --> 00:23:23.059
blind. Yeah, I believe so because like everything

00:23:23.059 --> 00:23:26.099
else, I probably, I experienced this with a lot

00:23:26.099 --> 00:23:29.980
of new blind people or people that I've met.

00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:32.819
I try to do as much as I can within the blind

00:23:32.819 --> 00:23:36.670
community to get people. into sports and such

00:23:36.670 --> 00:23:42.970
it's been so helpful to me post I lost and you

00:23:42.970 --> 00:23:44.630
know it's the same old thing like people be like

00:23:44.630 --> 00:23:46.309
well like I used to be able to see double black

00:23:46.309 --> 00:23:51.049
diamonds and now I can't do this and I guess

00:23:51.049 --> 00:23:53.750
that's the thing I hate hearing is like I can't

00:23:53.750 --> 00:23:57.250
um I'm like well yeah you can like clearly there's

00:23:57.250 --> 00:23:59.170
going to be a learning curve but you can I mean

00:23:59.170 --> 00:24:00.750
I was just skiing double black diamonds for the

00:24:00.750 --> 00:24:04.339
last two days but like I obviously didn't lose

00:24:04.339 --> 00:24:06.720
my sight first time on the hill ski double black

00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:09.359
diamonds i had to like relearn how to do these

00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:12.660
things i think a lot of people just quit because

00:24:12.660 --> 00:24:14.359
like well i can't do this thing i used to do

00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:17.839
as well as i used to do it but it's just like

00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:19.940
well you can get there if you put the effort

00:24:19.940 --> 00:24:23.220
in um so yeah so with climbing it was the one

00:24:23.220 --> 00:24:25.359
thing i got to do and i did it all the time because

00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:28.500
of this new woman in my life that only wanted

00:24:28.500 --> 00:24:31.839
to rock climb yeah okay and then i got into a

00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:37.210
clinical trial in Colorado for this like a synthetic

00:24:37.210 --> 00:24:41.509
form of vitamin Q10 to help like prevent my sight

00:24:41.509 --> 00:24:44.890
from getting worse um so now I'm in Colorado

00:24:44.890 --> 00:24:47.029
all the time we like finished building the van

00:24:47.029 --> 00:24:50.450
we're down there and then for like the next three

00:24:50.450 --> 00:24:53.450
and a half years while her and I dated I basically

00:24:53.450 --> 00:24:55.869
like just toured around and rock climbed all

00:24:55.869 --> 00:24:58.849
over North America and we went skiing did all

00:24:58.849 --> 00:25:02.049
these things Um, I also like, so I'm an alcoholic

00:25:02.049 --> 00:25:05.069
and I really struggled throughout a lot of time

00:25:05.069 --> 00:25:07.349
with my drinking, even though I was doing these

00:25:07.349 --> 00:25:10.289
awesome things, I'd go on these waves of like

00:25:10.289 --> 00:25:13.049
climbing and being really good. And then as long

00:25:13.049 --> 00:25:16.710
as I would come home or like back into like civilization,

00:25:17.009 --> 00:25:20.170
we'll say, and I'd be reminded of how blind I

00:25:20.170 --> 00:25:22.569
am. It's like when I'm just out hiking down a

00:25:22.569 --> 00:25:26.509
trail, following her, she's, you know, putting

00:25:26.509 --> 00:25:29.759
up these climbs, I'm following them. not really

00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:33.180
thinking about being blind. She never even gave

00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:36.440
me an opportunity to really whine about it. There'd

00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:39.400
be the odd time I'd wake up and I'd be like pretty

00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:40.619
emotional and she'd be like, oh, like what's

00:25:40.619 --> 00:25:42.500
wrong? Like, well, I woke up today and I kind

00:25:42.500 --> 00:25:45.099
of thought I would see and it was all a bad dream.

00:25:45.859 --> 00:25:48.000
And I'd be like, oh, I'm not going to climb today.

00:25:48.099 --> 00:25:50.980
I'm just going to like lay in bed and sulk. And

00:25:50.980 --> 00:25:53.220
because she needed me to belay her, probably

00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:56.150
she'd be like. Well, like, no, that's not an

00:25:56.150 --> 00:25:57.390
option. Like, do you know where you are right

00:25:57.390 --> 00:26:00.009
now? People would like kill to be in the side

00:26:00.009 --> 00:26:01.950
of this mountain that we're on. Like, get your

00:26:01.950 --> 00:26:06.069
ass out of bed and come. And, you know, I would

00:26:06.069 --> 00:26:07.890
resent her in the moments for that, but I can

00:26:07.890 --> 00:26:10.130
look back on that and I'm like super grateful

00:26:10.130 --> 00:26:14.369
that she didn't sit there and let me like, you

00:26:14.369 --> 00:26:18.930
know, put myself down in that moment. I then

00:26:18.930 --> 00:26:24.019
was talking with like Ontario Blind Sports. ontario

00:26:24.019 --> 00:26:26.980
was the province i live in and i was like well

00:26:26.980 --> 00:26:29.240
like i rock climb like where can i rock because

00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:31.059
i could probably i didn't really climb in gyms

00:26:31.059 --> 00:26:35.519
like like ever i got been in a couple maybe just

00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:37.680
randomly if it was like raining somewhere for

00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:40.180
a few days in a row and we kind of wanted to

00:26:40.180 --> 00:26:43.539
keep up climbing and even that's kind of funny

00:26:43.539 --> 00:26:46.440
because like i learned how to lead climb outdoors

00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:50.400
and i would go to gyms even one of the gyms i

00:26:50.910 --> 00:26:53.109
train it quite frequently I became friends with

00:26:53.109 --> 00:26:56.289
the manager there and I'm lead certified there

00:26:56.289 --> 00:26:58.450
and she had asked me she was like well who certified

00:26:58.450 --> 00:27:01.130
you to climb here I was like well you did she's

00:27:01.130 --> 00:27:02.490
like really I was like well like I obviously

00:27:02.490 --> 00:27:04.410
don't like act blind around you I'm like pretending

00:27:04.410 --> 00:27:08.410
I can see the belayer as I'm belaying and I'm

00:27:08.410 --> 00:27:11.490
not like leading on to like you know that a fact

00:27:11.490 --> 00:27:15.230
that I can't see very well um because I can belay

00:27:15.230 --> 00:27:18.670
very safely I just don't look at my climber while

00:27:18.670 --> 00:27:23.400
they're climbing which during tests I do just

00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:26.440
to not... To make it look like you are. Yeah.

00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:28.339
Okay. Same people would be like, well, you can't

00:27:28.339 --> 00:27:30.660
belay if you can't see, but like that is definitely

00:27:30.660 --> 00:27:35.279
not true. Like I feel the rope and such. And

00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:37.539
yeah, like instead of, and especially if I'm

00:27:37.539 --> 00:27:39.359
climbing out the doors, it's really cool because

00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:42.079
I, if it's quiet, you know, like I'm listening

00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:45.400
for the carabiner to be unhooked from the, your

00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:48.859
harness, like here at the... the gate close and

00:27:48.859 --> 00:27:50.799
i'm kind of like envisioning i can like hear

00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:55.019
you like put it through the bolt and yeah like

00:27:55.019 --> 00:27:57.000
i'm essentially like imagining everything that's

00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:00.940
happening up there um and then yeah i'm just

00:28:00.940 --> 00:28:03.500
paying attention to like feeding rope and and

00:28:03.500 --> 00:28:07.200
how much slack is out all by feeling it versus

00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:10.660
you know looking and like how much to give you

00:28:10.660 --> 00:28:12.460
like i just feed your rope and if you're pulling

00:28:12.460 --> 00:28:15.819
i'm just like quickly reacting to it. And if

00:28:15.819 --> 00:28:17.559
I've thrown out, thrown out too much, I then,

00:28:17.619 --> 00:28:19.420
you know, pull it back in. Once I've heard you

00:28:19.420 --> 00:28:23.839
clip the draw, um, like knock on wood. Yeah.

00:28:23.940 --> 00:28:27.380
Like I've never had any accidents and I, I have

00:28:27.380 --> 00:28:31.299
a lot of people that like ask me, like I, one

00:28:31.299 --> 00:28:33.700
of the first big multi pitches I did was like

00:28:33.700 --> 00:28:35.880
this big adventure. It was like a five hour hike

00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:39.160
into the Rocky mountains with this team of people

00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:43.779
from Texas. And like we were in Alberta and i'd

00:28:43.779 --> 00:28:46.140
met these people a day before they invited me

00:28:46.140 --> 00:28:48.720
on to go do this climb i had no idea what it

00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:50.480
was i had no idea i've signed up for this like

00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:54.599
epic adventure and as we're like hiking in the

00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:56.500
one guy's like hey like i'm gonna do all the

00:28:56.500 --> 00:28:58.880
leading he's like don't let my buddy belay me

00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:01.180
and i was like dude like you don't remember i'm

00:29:01.180 --> 00:29:03.079
blind right he's like yeah he's like i watched

00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:04.880
you belay all day yesterday and you're just like

00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:08.039
you're so much better than he is and i was just

00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:11.099
like oh okay like i was just like that's interesting

00:29:11.099 --> 00:29:14.930
that this man doesn't want his you know best

00:29:14.930 --> 00:29:17.609
friend to belay him on this like climb that they

00:29:17.609 --> 00:29:20.630
came to canada to do he wants this random blind

00:29:20.630 --> 00:29:24.910
guy to do it for him yeah well um and yeah and

00:29:24.910 --> 00:29:27.490
even on that climb like i remember you know i

00:29:27.490 --> 00:29:30.509
was only following it but like i had the other

00:29:30.509 --> 00:29:33.029
guy he was like a very strong climber he had

00:29:33.029 --> 00:29:35.190
fallen on one of the pitches and i was like wow

00:29:35.190 --> 00:29:37.869
like little things like this had to happen for

00:29:37.869 --> 00:29:41.890
me to realize i'm not this and blind people aren't

00:29:41.890 --> 00:29:44.650
these people that are portrayed in most movies

00:29:44.650 --> 00:29:47.829
like i am very capable two of the people that

00:29:47.829 --> 00:29:50.450
were on this team of five that were going to

00:29:50.450 --> 00:29:53.670
this climb didn't even make the approach because

00:29:53.670 --> 00:29:56.869
it was so scary to them like i have a benefit

00:29:56.869 --> 00:29:59.390
of not being able to see things that i was supposed

00:29:59.390 --> 00:30:02.789
to be afraid of okay and i remember they pointed

00:30:02.789 --> 00:30:06.589
out where in which direction the climb was we're

00:30:06.589 --> 00:30:09.119
going through the scree field rocks are falling

00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:11.019
and i was just like someone behind me is going

00:30:11.019 --> 00:30:13.640
to kill me with like rocks are you know kicking

00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:15.799
out so i was just like i'm gonna like trek ahead

00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:19.079
and i'll meet you over there and i was like sitting

00:30:19.079 --> 00:30:21.440
there for like two hours i need to walk to like

00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:24.500
waist deep snow at one point oh my gosh it was

00:30:24.500 --> 00:30:26.839
in like june so it was like 30 degrees out but

00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:28.460
and i remember i was just like i stripped down

00:30:28.460 --> 00:30:30.539
i was like sitting on this rock it's like you

00:30:30.539 --> 00:30:33.920
know sunbathing and drying out and eventually

00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:36.720
one of them found me and he was like well like

00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:38.750
how did you get over here And I was like, oh,

00:30:38.789 --> 00:30:41.250
and I just like walked across this rock. And

00:30:41.250 --> 00:30:42.630
he's like, well, if you were to fall, I'm like,

00:30:42.710 --> 00:30:45.029
you would have died. I was like, oh, I'm like,

00:30:45.049 --> 00:30:47.890
I don't know. I'm like, I just, I could see that

00:30:47.890 --> 00:30:49.990
it was like a spire we were climbing. And like,

00:30:50.049 --> 00:30:52.210
once I got close enough to it, I could like see

00:30:52.210 --> 00:30:54.549
it because it was massive. I'm like, I decided

00:30:54.549 --> 00:30:56.329
to come to the base of it. And this is the way

00:30:56.329 --> 00:30:59.849
I found to get here. And then two of the people

00:30:59.849 --> 00:31:03.150
were like, I'm not walking across that. And then

00:31:03.150 --> 00:31:05.109
they bailed. I'm like, you just walk for five

00:31:05.109 --> 00:31:07.980
hours in one way to. get here just to be like,

00:31:08.019 --> 00:31:11.579
I'm too scared to walk across this. But again,

00:31:11.619 --> 00:31:13.240
I had no idea that I should have even been afraid

00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:15.539
of it. I mean, in hindsight, does it scare you

00:31:15.539 --> 00:31:18.160
that you like run into these moments and you

00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:21.000
may or may not know that it's like a life or

00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:24.359
death situation? No, because I'm very careful.

00:31:24.440 --> 00:31:30.319
I feel like I'm careless. There's like a controversial

00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:33.539
man, Jordan Peterson, like or dislike what he

00:31:33.539 --> 00:31:37.200
says. The one thing I do agree with is He's quoted

00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:39.740
saying, like, when kids are doing dangerous things

00:31:39.740 --> 00:31:45.640
carefully, leave them be. Yeah. And I am a kid,

00:31:45.660 --> 00:31:47.759
I suppose. And I'm doing things dangerous, but

00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:51.680
I'm doing them very carefully. And I'm not being

00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:53.380
told, like, oh, be careful and this and that.

00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:57.920
And I'm not psyched out. So I'm just, like, careful.

00:31:58.059 --> 00:32:00.039
And I also use hiking sticks. I feel around with

00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:02.000
them. Oh, okay. Yeah. I guess I should maybe

00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:03.519
say that. I'm not just, like, blindly, like,

00:32:03.539 --> 00:32:06.839
feeling around. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I learned,

00:32:06.920 --> 00:32:10.759
I really fought using hiking sticks. Cause again,

00:32:10.859 --> 00:32:13.119
I was just like, hiking sticks are for like old

00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:17.299
people with bad knees. And I really struggled

00:32:17.299 --> 00:32:22.799
on approaches. And I remember one day, um, my

00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.980
ex girlfriend, I was like on my butt, like scooching

00:32:25.980 --> 00:32:29.400
around and people like walking by us. And it's

00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:30.859
probably like very embarrassing for her. Cause

00:32:30.859 --> 00:32:33.220
like I, the hill I was going down, I'm now like

00:32:33.220 --> 00:32:35.740
leveled out, but I don't know that. And she's

00:32:35.740 --> 00:32:37.059
like, I'm buying you hiking sticks tomorrow.

00:32:37.299 --> 00:32:38.539
And I was like, quit being ridiculous. I'm not

00:32:38.539 --> 00:32:40.619
using hiking sticks. She was like, Chaz, like,

00:32:40.660 --> 00:32:42.660
stop and like, think about yourself right now.

00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:45.259
And I like feeling around, like I'm on flat ground

00:32:45.259 --> 00:32:47.960
and I'm like crawling on my butt. I remember

00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:49.200
I got like a bit of a breakdown. I was like,

00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:51.319
damn, I can't even walk on flat ground. It's

00:32:51.319 --> 00:32:54.359
ridiculous. And then I got hiking sticks and

00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:58.640
my whole life changed. I can like, I mean, I've

00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:00.420
had friends that have, you know, if I've been

00:33:00.420 --> 00:33:02.339
to the crag before, I know how to get there.

00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:05.339
And I'm like ahead of everyone. Like, dude, like

00:33:05.339 --> 00:33:06.700
what took you so long? Like, well, we don't have

00:33:06.700 --> 00:33:08.539
your fancy hiking sticks. We can't, you know,

00:33:08.539 --> 00:33:10.880
get here as quick as you. And it's just like,

00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:13.559
wow, like here I could barely walk. And I get

00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:15.160
these like, you know, two little things in my

00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:18.160
hand. And now I'm just like powering through

00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:21.980
just confidently. And again, like I don't always

00:33:21.980 --> 00:33:24.160
know where I'm going or like what I'm stepping

00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:27.720
on. Maybe not even be on trail sometimes. But

00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:29.599
if I know the general direction, I just kind

00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:34.279
of like haul ass and get there. Okay. I'm getting

00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:36.339
the picture that you were like very stubborn

00:33:36.339 --> 00:33:39.759
in your own relationship and she, uh, she helped

00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:42.720
you through a lot of this. Yeah, she did. She,

00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:45.099
like, I'm very grateful for the time that we

00:33:45.099 --> 00:33:50.059
had together and the things that I was able to,

00:33:50.119 --> 00:33:52.920
I think losing your sight, a lot of people I've

00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:55.220
experienced kind of go like one of two ways that

00:33:55.220 --> 00:33:58.880
feels maybe as with most disabilities, you know,

00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:00.700
it's very easy to go into like a very dark place

00:34:00.700 --> 00:34:04.329
and just like, stay there and you know i would

00:34:04.329 --> 00:34:06.049
have moved back home to my parents house and

00:34:06.049 --> 00:34:09.389
probably just like drank myself to death type

00:34:09.389 --> 00:34:11.989
of thing and felt sorry for myself and oh poor

00:34:11.989 --> 00:34:17.949
me and i never i mean i did have those experiences

00:34:17.949 --> 00:34:20.090
but because i was out doing these awesome things

00:34:20.090 --> 00:34:25.730
and climbing i yeah my whole life just kind of

00:34:25.730 --> 00:34:29.110
like blew up yeah i guess i'm back to the comp

00:34:29.110 --> 00:34:33.119
climbing I then, you know, I started playing

00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:36.460
blind hockey. I then heard about there being

00:34:36.460 --> 00:34:39.679
a Team Canada. So that was a goal of mine. I

00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:41.619
wanted to make the Canadian blind hockey team.

00:34:42.460 --> 00:34:45.320
And I was going to a tournament and then I got

00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:48.800
a phone call. I never actually even asked her,

00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:54.619
but the woman that runs CEC, the Climbing National

00:34:54.619 --> 00:34:59.019
Federation, she had called me. And I remember

00:34:59.019 --> 00:35:03.500
being in Bulk Barn, and it's like a store here

00:35:03.500 --> 00:35:07.519
in Canada. It's like Costco. Yeah, well, better,

00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:11.280
but less. Oh, wow. Okay. You buy bulk food. I

00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:14.320
go there to buy seeds and such that I mix in

00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:18.420
my yogurt. Okay. But anyways, she had called

00:35:18.420 --> 00:35:21.599
me, introduced herself, and I don't even know

00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:24.480
how she got my number. I should ask her that

00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:27.019
sometime. But anyways. She was like, hey, like,

00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:30.260
there's this World Cup coming up in Salt Lake

00:35:30.260 --> 00:35:34.199
City. Would you like to be the first blind or

00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:36.300
visually impaired climber to represent Canada

00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:38.639
at an international climbing event? And I was

00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:41.599
like, yeah, sure. No idea what that even meant.

00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:45.659
And then that's how I, like, started all this

00:35:45.659 --> 00:35:48.639
journey of comp climbing. And I'd never even

00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:51.420
heard of a collar. Like, didn't even know what

00:35:51.420 --> 00:35:54.219
that was, even though, like, friends of mine.

00:35:55.139 --> 00:35:57.000
Would sometimes, I guess, spray beta at me, but

00:35:57.000 --> 00:35:59.340
sometimes wouldn't. Like, I can remember my buddy,

00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:02.179
Matt, who I was talking about. We were, like,

00:36:02.179 --> 00:36:05.559
climbing in Vegas, and I'd come down, and he'd

00:36:05.559 --> 00:36:06.960
be like, dude, like, what are you doing? Like,

00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:08.320
you're holding this little crimp. There's this

00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:10.480
fucking jug beside it. And I'm like, a lot of

00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:13.480
my friends forget I can't see. Okay, yeah. And

00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:16.639
I'm just like, dude, I can't see the big jug

00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:18.739
beside me. Like, you could have told me to move

00:36:18.739 --> 00:36:21.639
my hand over. Yeah. Like, I make a lot of climbs

00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:24.150
harder than they need to be. Going back a little,

00:36:24.250 --> 00:36:26.829
when you are climbing, I guess most of the time

00:36:26.829 --> 00:36:29.889
when you're climbing outside or not climbing

00:36:29.889 --> 00:36:33.230
in a competition format, you are just climbing

00:36:33.230 --> 00:36:36.349
without getting information about the climb or

00:36:36.349 --> 00:36:39.309
without a caller? Yes and no. A lot of times,

00:36:39.329 --> 00:36:43.309
depending where I'm climbing, like in Red Rocks,

00:36:43.309 --> 00:36:46.690
where the rock is red, you have people chalk.

00:36:46.989 --> 00:36:49.150
up their hands so like there's white on the rock

00:36:49.150 --> 00:36:52.230
i can see when i'm close enough to that ah okay

00:36:52.230 --> 00:36:54.969
to tell at least where the general direction

00:36:54.969 --> 00:36:59.570
of where i start feeling will be and i may i

00:36:59.570 --> 00:37:02.269
won't i don't know is that a gaston am i under

00:37:02.269 --> 00:37:06.150
clinging it is sometimes it's even misleading

00:37:06.150 --> 00:37:08.869
because people may touch something and then realize

00:37:08.869 --> 00:37:11.250
oh you need to like bump to something else why

00:37:11.250 --> 00:37:13.090
just touch the first thing if like oh there is

00:37:13.090 --> 00:37:15.659
a hole there i'll use it even though there's

00:37:15.659 --> 00:37:18.860
an even better hold somewhere else. So if I'm

00:37:18.860 --> 00:37:22.199
climbing with someone who knows the route, because

00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:25.440
it's harder to see rock shapes, they can then

00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:29.119
say to me, like, you know, go up further, move

00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:31.860
your hand like this, give me some beta that way.

00:37:32.360 --> 00:37:34.119
But like outdoor calling is a little harder.

00:37:34.539 --> 00:37:37.280
Sometimes people will tick things. So they'll

00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:39.300
be like, hey, when you see this tick mark, when

00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:40.699
you're there, tell me when you have to tick,

00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:43.820
because they maybe can't see me. and then they'll

00:37:43.820 --> 00:37:48.000
maybe explain something to me there um to the

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:50.159
point of like i've even had people carry like

00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:52.820
charcoal with them if i've been climbing places

00:37:52.820 --> 00:37:55.159
where the rock is very white so like white on

00:37:55.159 --> 00:37:57.900
white and they'll like tick things with like

00:37:57.900 --> 00:38:03.519
a piece of you know campfire um and yeah so it's

00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:08.320
a lot of feeling around um people do call for

00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:11.250
me if they if they can Okay. So then, yeah, going

00:38:11.250 --> 00:38:13.409
back to your, I guess like first competition

00:38:13.409 --> 00:38:17.250
experience, what was that like? It was pretty

00:38:17.250 --> 00:38:19.570
awesome. Cause then, yeah, they'd, I was in like

00:38:19.570 --> 00:38:21.730
a zoom call. They'd asked me to bring a caller

00:38:21.730 --> 00:38:25.610
with me. Like what the hell is a caller? And

00:38:25.610 --> 00:38:28.489
then they explained to me that I can have someone

00:38:28.489 --> 00:38:31.190
there that can help, you know, tell me how to

00:38:31.190 --> 00:38:33.469
grab the holds and like sequence my moves and

00:38:33.469 --> 00:38:36.329
stuff like that. And I was like, Oh, like, well,

00:38:36.389 --> 00:38:38.329
I don't really have anyone to bring. And they're

00:38:38.329 --> 00:38:40.639
like, well, don't you like a climbing partner

00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:46.260
and my girlfriend i just broke up in january

00:38:46.260 --> 00:38:50.519
this is now may and i was like no i'm like i

00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:52.880
don't like my climbing partner was my girlfriend

00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:56.460
i doubt she wants to come okay and call for me

00:38:56.460 --> 00:38:58.719
yeah and then i was like anyone else and it was

00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:00.980
like american and stuff like well like an american

00:39:00.980 --> 00:39:04.719
can come so i'd actually asked it's kind of like

00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:06.849
a crazy part of my life as well as And I asked

00:39:06.849 --> 00:39:08.170
this friend of mine, he was like, you know, one

00:39:08.170 --> 00:39:10.849
of my best friends. And it was like a week or

00:39:10.849 --> 00:39:13.809
two before the event. He had then like started

00:39:13.809 --> 00:39:15.889
dating my girlfriend when we broke up and he

00:39:15.889 --> 00:39:19.030
hadn't told me about it. Whoa. Okay, wait a minute.

00:39:20.269 --> 00:39:25.550
Okay, that's kind of. It turned out to be a really

00:39:25.550 --> 00:39:28.849
good thing. Okay. I didn't, he had sent me this

00:39:28.849 --> 00:39:31.849
big message before him because he was going to

00:39:31.849 --> 00:39:36.340
be my caller. And then he. my friend had told

00:39:36.340 --> 00:39:38.579
him he's like you got to come out and like tell

00:39:38.579 --> 00:39:41.639
chas this enough of you like doing spanish back

00:39:41.639 --> 00:39:45.179
type of thing and he then wrote me this big big

00:39:45.179 --> 00:39:51.280
uh message and i uh i read it i was like devastated

00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:53.420
and like i remember screenshotting it and like

00:39:53.420 --> 00:39:55.440
sending it to like i'm in a 12 -step program

00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:58.699
i got i quit drinking like you know a few days

00:39:58.699 --> 00:40:05.530
after my uh girlfriend left me um Oh, that's

00:40:05.530 --> 00:40:09.269
good, I guess. Yeah, it was. It was really necessary.

00:40:09.889 --> 00:40:11.809
I mean, I'm not trying to, like, bad talk her.

00:40:11.969 --> 00:40:15.849
She had her reasons, and I stand by them. But,

00:40:15.869 --> 00:40:17.329
like, yeah, she, like, left me in a parking lot

00:40:17.329 --> 00:40:21.250
in Las Vegas. Oh, my God. Okay. And, yeah, it

00:40:21.250 --> 00:40:23.610
was, like, awful. But it was very necessary for

00:40:23.610 --> 00:40:26.349
that to happen for me to, I now didn't have someone,

00:40:26.389 --> 00:40:28.969
like, asking me to quit drinking. I was just,

00:40:28.989 --> 00:40:30.670
like, all alone. I kind of came to that conclusion

00:40:30.670 --> 00:40:35.480
on my own. I mean, even my friend who is now,

00:40:35.559 --> 00:40:37.539
they're now married. It's like, I'm proud for

00:40:37.539 --> 00:40:41.559
them. He then took me to get like a PCR COVID

00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:45.280
test. And I remember asking him like, oh, take

00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:47.699
me to the liquor store because I have like another

00:40:47.699 --> 00:40:51.780
two days before my flight home. And he looked

00:40:51.780 --> 00:40:53.119
at me and was like, Chaz, if you could see yourself,

00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:56.400
he's like, you would know that you're not going

00:40:56.400 --> 00:40:58.239
to be allowed to get on an airplane. He's like,

00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:00.199
you look ridiculous right now. Because I've just

00:41:00.199 --> 00:41:02.719
been drinking day in and day out for a few days

00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:05.940
now. And he's like, you should go and eat an

00:41:05.940 --> 00:41:07.820
edible and just pass out for the next day and

00:41:07.820 --> 00:41:12.079
get home and whatever. And then I went back to

00:41:12.079 --> 00:41:14.980
my hotel room. And I still had booze there. And

00:41:14.980 --> 00:41:19.300
I heard what he had said. And I've never drank

00:41:19.300 --> 00:41:24.119
another day in my life. And I never will. So

00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:29.659
I then flew home. And then my friend Matt drove

00:41:29.659 --> 00:41:31.199
me to the airport and he suggested that maybe

00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:36.960
I try going to like a 12 -step program. And then,

00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:41.440
and I did. And yeah, I've been so, like, you

00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:43.260
have to do a lot of work. You don't just join

00:41:43.260 --> 00:41:47.619
a program and magically you now don't have problems

00:41:47.619 --> 00:41:49.039
anymore. Because again, like alcohol wasn't my

00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:52.239
problem. It was what I used as a solution to

00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:53.800
all my problems that I didn't know how to deal

00:41:53.800 --> 00:42:00.340
with. But anyway, so then I screenshot that message

00:42:00.340 --> 00:42:03.599
sent to my sponsor. And he's like, well, you

00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:06.360
need to pray for them to be. And in the message,

00:42:06.440 --> 00:42:08.539
I guess my friend had asked me to forgive him.

00:42:08.619 --> 00:42:10.239
So my sponsor was like, well, you need to forgive

00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:13.179
them and pray for them to be healthy and happy

00:42:13.179 --> 00:42:15.539
and have everything in life that you want. And

00:42:15.539 --> 00:42:17.639
I remember being like, that's not at all what

00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:21.440
I want for them. And he was just like, yeah,

00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:24.360
but again, this man had never. misled me so I

00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:26.719
was like I'm just gonna keep following his guidance

00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:30.960
and and I did pray for that repeatedly and eventually

00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:35.079
I did believe it and I do truthfully I am hoping

00:42:35.079 --> 00:42:38.320
that they are having a grateful wonderful life

00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:41.440
together but then anyways that then takes me

00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:44.820
to I now don't have a caller yeah that was quite

00:42:44.820 --> 00:42:48.260
a roundabout story that was good to know yeah

00:42:48.260 --> 00:42:51.019
I kind of went off topic there I do that a bit

00:42:51.019 --> 00:42:55.590
sometimes but uh It's getting me to where sometimes

00:42:55.590 --> 00:42:59.369
in life I've learned that these awful things

00:42:59.369 --> 00:43:02.409
happen. I'm just like, why me? And afterwards,

00:43:02.730 --> 00:43:04.730
there's a quote I've heard. It's like, life is

00:43:04.730 --> 00:43:07.909
lived forward but understood backwards. And that

00:43:07.909 --> 00:43:11.869
right there is a very important part of my life

00:43:11.869 --> 00:43:14.550
where in the moment I was like, oh, this couldn't

00:43:14.550 --> 00:43:16.469
be any worse. And it turned out to be such a

00:43:16.469 --> 00:43:19.969
great thing because I then am on this Zoom call

00:43:19.969 --> 00:43:22.099
with the Canadian team. I was like, well, can

00:43:22.099 --> 00:43:23.920
one of the other pair of climbers call for me?

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:25.699
And they're like, no, like they can't see the

00:43:25.699 --> 00:43:28.340
roots and stuff. I was like, it's like, well,

00:43:28.420 --> 00:43:31.559
like I have like a week or two. I don't, how

00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:32.719
am I going to get someone to call for me? And

00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:35.820
then they had also said in the Zoom call that

00:43:35.820 --> 00:43:39.019
we would have access to watch the able -bodied

00:43:39.019 --> 00:43:41.940
climbers compete because they had, because of

00:43:41.940 --> 00:43:43.619
COVID and stuff, they had like back -to -back

00:43:43.619 --> 00:43:47.659
comps, if I remember correctly. So then I was

00:43:47.659 --> 00:43:49.179
like, oh, like, well, can one of the other Canadians

00:43:49.179 --> 00:43:51.000
that are going to be there call for me? keep

00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:52.340
in mind, like, I don't know any of these people.

00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:55.579
Never even heard of them. Cause I don't, I don't

00:43:55.579 --> 00:43:57.519
comp climb. Don't know anything about comp climbing.

00:43:59.019 --> 00:44:02.599
And the one guy who was on the call was like,

00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:04.159
yeah, he's like, I know an athlete who I think

00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:05.760
would be like really interested in this opportunity.

00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:09.400
And then like an hour later, I get like an email

00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:13.420
from someone named Alana Yip. And I was just

00:44:13.420 --> 00:44:16.500
like, oh, cool. Alana Yip, neat. She, this woman

00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:19.239
wants to help call for me. I remember like the

00:44:19.239 --> 00:44:21.670
next day. being in the climbing gym and my phone

00:44:21.670 --> 00:44:23.829
rang it was elena yep because she'd email me

00:44:23.829 --> 00:44:25.409
like here's my number i'm going to call you tomorrow

00:44:25.409 --> 00:44:28.570
remember the manager of the climbing gym could

00:44:28.570 --> 00:44:30.590
read the big font on my phone she's like why

00:44:30.590 --> 00:44:32.329
does elena yep have your phone number i'm like

00:44:32.329 --> 00:44:34.650
who the hell's elena yep because like she's like

00:44:34.650 --> 00:44:38.449
so stoked right and again like i hadn't known

00:44:38.449 --> 00:44:40.409
anything it's like i have a second time i've

00:44:40.409 --> 00:44:42.789
ever heard her name not knowing that she's like

00:44:42.789 --> 00:44:47.219
the most badass rock climber in canada and but

00:44:47.219 --> 00:44:51.239
I was like very ignorant to all of that and then

00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:53.440
yeah like Alana and I then like you know met

00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:56.900
we talked on the phone she was like yeah like

00:44:56.900 --> 00:44:58.420
you know like I think it'd be an awesome opportunity

00:44:58.420 --> 00:45:01.920
to like you know help you and be your caller

00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:05.059
and stuff and then we'd met in Salt Lake City

00:45:05.059 --> 00:45:09.880
like a day or two days before my comp like we

00:45:09.880 --> 00:45:12.639
climbed once together and then next thing you

00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:16.519
know we like jump into a world cup and and yeah

00:45:16.519 --> 00:45:20.820
we like ended up crushing it and uh yeah and

00:45:20.820 --> 00:45:22.780
then like i said that was like the cherry on

00:45:22.780 --> 00:45:26.760
top of the story of my girlfriend and friend

00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:29.860
like getting together and stuff like it was that

00:45:29.860 --> 00:45:33.280
had to happen in order to like lead me to you

00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:35.599
know meet like get to like climb with eleni up

00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:37.539
and have her like literally in my ear while i'm

00:45:37.539 --> 00:45:40.719
rock climbing and yeah like i said i i'm really

00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:45.400
happy for my ex and my friend that they got to

00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:48.599
go their way and stuff and it then allowed me

00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:51.260
to go you know it closed the door for me like

00:45:51.260 --> 00:45:55.380
it's just redirecting me somewhere else um and

00:45:55.380 --> 00:45:58.199
yeah like my life turned like I have a great

00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:00.360
life now and I get to do a lot of like awesome

00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:04.039
things like I ended up winning we got silver

00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:07.099
medal in that competition um oh nice yeah congrats

00:46:07.099 --> 00:46:11.019
yeah I was sick and then yeah like since then

00:46:11.019 --> 00:46:13.840
I've got to do like a ton of climbing like all

00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:16.199
over in Europe and stuff like that as well. I've

00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:18.119
went to a couple of world cups there, world championships.

00:46:19.480 --> 00:46:21.440
Um, you know, I get to like hang out with like,

00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:24.460
you know, literally the best female log climber

00:46:24.460 --> 00:46:28.460
in Canada. Um, where like I, my, my path never

00:46:28.460 --> 00:46:31.539
would have crossed hers if it wasn't for that

00:46:31.539 --> 00:46:33.659
happening type of thing. It's really interesting

00:46:33.659 --> 00:46:36.760
that you like thinking about you not knowing,

00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:40.519
like being active in competition climbing and

00:46:40.519 --> 00:46:43.619
not really knowing any of like the other competition

00:46:43.619 --> 00:46:47.659
climbers um is there like a is there like a big

00:46:47.659 --> 00:46:52.179
name that you just didn't know of like what's

00:46:52.179 --> 00:46:54.099
the biggest name that you feel like you had no

00:46:54.099 --> 00:46:56.849
idea about Please excuse this brief intermission,

00:46:56.929 --> 00:46:59.130
but if you're interested in deleted scenes from

00:46:59.130 --> 00:47:01.190
this episode where we talk about run -ins with

00:47:01.190 --> 00:47:04.030
famous pro climbers and what good versus bad

00:47:04.030 --> 00:47:06.829
calling sounds like, do consider helping support

00:47:06.829 --> 00:47:09.690
this podcast on Patreon. Some other perks include

00:47:09.690 --> 00:47:12.090
a membership pin shipped to you after two months,

00:47:12.289 --> 00:47:14.809
prioritize guest questions or the ability to

00:47:14.809 --> 00:47:17.829
submit video questions, and more to come. The

00:47:17.829 --> 00:47:20.070
proceeds go back into the podcast to help me

00:47:20.070 --> 00:47:23.389
break even, and they help me improve the experience

00:47:23.389 --> 00:47:27.039
of the guest. If you'd like to help out non -monetarily,

00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:29.900
liking, commenting, and sharing helps a great

00:47:29.900 --> 00:47:33.800
deal as well. Back to the show. Well, I'll tell

00:47:33.800 --> 00:47:40.940
you a story. In Bern, Switzerland, I was there.

00:47:40.940 --> 00:47:42.599
And again, I had to have these crazy moments.

00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:46.760
So the men's lead world championship was happening.

00:47:47.420 --> 00:47:51.329
So I go in this big arena. and i can't see so

00:47:51.329 --> 00:47:54.590
that i'm like asking the security guard hey i'm

00:47:54.590 --> 00:47:56.849
blind can i go and stand like down there with

00:47:56.849 --> 00:47:59.389
like the photographers and stuff so i can try

00:47:59.389 --> 00:48:02.190
to get closer and i'm standing on there like

00:48:02.190 --> 00:48:03.530
i run into a friend of mine she gives me one

00:48:03.530 --> 00:48:05.349
of her cameras i have this like huge telephoto

00:48:05.349 --> 00:48:08.789
lens i'm trying to zoom in and the crowd's going

00:48:08.789 --> 00:48:11.349
crazy and like i'm zooming in but i can still

00:48:11.349 --> 00:48:13.550
just see like this blur i can now like tell where

00:48:13.550 --> 00:48:15.889
this body is but like i have no idea what he's

00:48:15.889 --> 00:48:19.150
grabbing what he's doing and i remember like

00:48:19.469 --> 00:48:20.909
The crowd's going nuts. I remember being like,

00:48:20.969 --> 00:48:22.690
fuck, like, I wish I could see what was going

00:48:22.690 --> 00:48:25.329
on up there. And then all of a sudden this like

00:48:25.329 --> 00:48:26.829
voice in my head came in and was like, Chaz,

00:48:26.849 --> 00:48:28.469
if you could see, you wouldn't be here right

00:48:28.469 --> 00:48:30.469
now. I was like, I wouldn't be standing here.

00:48:30.650 --> 00:48:33.869
I wouldn't even be a rock climber. I wouldn't

00:48:33.869 --> 00:48:35.989
be in Switzerland at the world championships.

00:48:36.329 --> 00:48:38.989
And all of a sudden I was just okay with not

00:48:38.989 --> 00:48:43.210
being able to see. And who this was, was Jakob

00:48:43.210 --> 00:48:45.809
Schubert, who I'd never heard of before. Cause

00:48:45.809 --> 00:48:48.289
again, unless I've been somewhere with Atlanta.

00:48:49.050 --> 00:48:50.730
And she's like, introduce me to someone. Cause

00:48:50.730 --> 00:48:53.230
again, like I don't look up things on internet,

00:48:53.289 --> 00:48:55.010
on the internet. And like, I'm not reading magazines.

00:48:55.269 --> 00:48:58.289
So I think that's also really cool because I

00:48:58.289 --> 00:49:01.309
meet these people who it's just like, oh, this

00:49:01.309 --> 00:49:02.650
is so -and -so. And I'm like, oh, hey. And I

00:49:02.650 --> 00:49:05.909
just talk to them like some other climber and

00:49:05.909 --> 00:49:09.150
I'm not fanboying over them. And I feel like

00:49:09.150 --> 00:49:11.530
they get to have like a regular interaction with

00:49:11.530 --> 00:49:13.849
me that I feel a lot of people that are in the

00:49:13.849 --> 00:49:18.969
spotlight don't get to have that often. So again,

00:49:18.989 --> 00:49:21.110
like being blind is another, there's a lot of

00:49:21.110 --> 00:49:23.809
benefits to it. I mean, in a roundabout way.

00:49:25.690 --> 00:49:30.150
But so then the next day I'm in the gym. I remember

00:49:30.150 --> 00:49:32.329
my friend Katie's blinding me. There was like

00:49:32.329 --> 00:49:35.349
this cool like outdoor pillar at this gym. Like

00:49:35.349 --> 00:49:38.449
this outdoor climbing wall. And I'm like cruxing

00:49:38.449 --> 00:49:41.809
out hard. And my friend Rachel, who's a para

00:49:41.809 --> 00:49:43.409
climber, comes over and she's like yelling at

00:49:43.409 --> 00:49:45.250
me. She's like, come down. I want you to meet

00:49:45.250 --> 00:49:48.289
someone. And I'm like. can you shut up? Like

00:49:48.289 --> 00:49:49.489
I'm trying to climb. She's like, no, like stop,

00:49:49.610 --> 00:49:51.030
come down. I remember being like, can you just

00:49:51.030 --> 00:49:54.349
fuck off right now? And tell me about the fall.

00:49:54.469 --> 00:49:58.349
I'm like stressing hard. Yeah. And then I like

00:49:58.349 --> 00:50:00.409
finished the climb. I come down, I look at Katie.

00:50:00.469 --> 00:50:01.750
I'm like, what the hell was Rachel's problem?

00:50:01.849 --> 00:50:03.949
Like what was so serious? She's like, well, you

00:50:03.949 --> 00:50:06.369
basically just told Jakob Schubert to fuck off.

00:50:06.510 --> 00:50:08.590
And I was like, oh my God. Well, there was my

00:50:08.590 --> 00:50:11.369
one opportunity of, you know, meeting the world

00:50:11.369 --> 00:50:14.289
champion rock climber who like just got brought

00:50:14.289 --> 00:50:17.980
over here to like say hi to me. And again, I'm

00:50:17.980 --> 00:50:20.380
looking down. I can't see them. I can hear Rachel's

00:50:20.380 --> 00:50:23.539
voice. And I'm just thinking, we're literally

00:50:23.539 --> 00:50:25.719
traveling around Europe right now together. You

00:50:25.719 --> 00:50:29.820
can wait three minutes. But obviously, yeah.

00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:31.760
So we never ever did meet. But I'm sure one day

00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:32.880
my path will cross. Oh, no, you didn't meet?

00:50:33.139 --> 00:50:35.659
No. Oh, no. Well, he's a busy dude. He just won

00:50:35.659 --> 00:50:38.219
the world championship. He's making his rounds.

00:50:38.260 --> 00:50:40.980
I think him and Adam Ondra are in the gym signing

00:50:40.980 --> 00:50:44.659
autographs and stuff. And yeah, somehow Rachel

00:50:44.659 --> 00:50:47.030
got him. alone for a few minutes and was like,

00:50:47.050 --> 00:50:49.190
come over here. There's this Canadian guy I want

00:50:49.190 --> 00:50:51.630
you to meet. So maybe one of these days I'll

00:50:51.630 --> 00:50:54.389
tell him the story and we'll see if he remembers

00:50:54.389 --> 00:50:56.469
this interaction. So I'm sure very few people

00:50:56.469 --> 00:50:59.670
like talk to him in that manner. Yeah. I wasn't

00:50:59.670 --> 00:51:03.250
saying it to him. I was saying it to her mostly.

00:51:03.409 --> 00:51:05.750
We're really good friends. So she wouldn't have

00:51:05.750 --> 00:51:07.710
been offended by it. And again, like I'm like

00:51:07.710 --> 00:51:11.090
above my bowl trying to figure out shit and it's

00:51:11.090 --> 00:51:13.449
not a time to be bothering someone. As a rock

00:51:13.449 --> 00:51:15.530
climber, she should have understood that. So

00:51:15.530 --> 00:51:20.210
if I, like, throw out some big names, can you

00:51:20.210 --> 00:51:22.070
let me know? Yeah, try one. Yeah. Okay. Well,

00:51:22.170 --> 00:51:24.769
so the obvious one would be, like, Yanya. Yanya

00:51:24.769 --> 00:51:28.269
Garbrandt. Yeah, I know that name. I have been

00:51:28.269 --> 00:51:31.289
in places that she's been. Okay. You don't know,

00:51:31.349 --> 00:51:35.730
like, about her, like, accomplishments? Yeah,

00:51:36.070 --> 00:51:39.869
she's, what are they, the GOAT. Okay. In, I guess,

00:51:39.889 --> 00:51:41.469
some people's opinion. Like, right now, she's

00:51:41.469 --> 00:51:43.590
definitely... From what I understand, it's just

00:51:43.590 --> 00:51:47.269
crushing it and pretty well cleaning up house,

00:51:47.329 --> 00:51:50.630
taking first place at everything. I could be

00:51:50.630 --> 00:51:52.449
wrong, but is that not true? No, yeah, that's

00:51:52.449 --> 00:51:55.469
true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's just an absolute

00:51:55.469 --> 00:51:59.449
crusher. Okay. What about like a newer name,

00:51:59.650 --> 00:52:04.730
like Serato? No, don't know Serato. Sorry, Serato.

00:52:05.090 --> 00:52:10.079
Toby Roberts? He's from the UK? Yeah. I've heard

00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:12.119
that name, but I couldn't tell you anything about

00:52:12.119 --> 00:52:14.960
him other than I've heard the name. He, he won

00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:18.199
gold at the, at the last Olympics. Really? See,

00:52:18.219 --> 00:52:22.019
that's it. Like I don't watch TV. I, I mean,

00:52:22.039 --> 00:52:25.019
that's a lie. I've been, after my surgeries,

00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:29.320
I've started to watch more TV, like listening

00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:32.780
to books and stuff, but normally I don't spend

00:52:32.780 --> 00:52:37.800
any time laying around doing that type of stuff.

00:52:39.179 --> 00:52:41.880
And again, like with climbing, even climbing

00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:45.800
films and stuff like that, for me to actually

00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:49.699
watch someone rock climb, it's basically impossible.

00:52:50.260 --> 00:52:52.960
Like I must have like a massive screen TV. And

00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:54.980
even if I can see they're grabbing this hold,

00:52:55.219 --> 00:52:58.159
say it's a white wall and there's a black hold

00:52:58.159 --> 00:53:01.840
on it. Like I can't tell what the hold is. I

00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:04.739
can't see enough to know that. So I'm basically

00:53:04.739 --> 00:53:07.610
just seeing this blurb. go across the screen.

00:53:07.829 --> 00:53:11.550
Yeah, not very interesting. Yeah. If I watch

00:53:11.550 --> 00:53:14.730
like a Real Rocks, like when I had my surgery,

00:53:14.809 --> 00:53:17.329
I was like, oh, I'm going to get Real Rocks and

00:53:17.329 --> 00:53:18.409
I'm going to subscribe and I'm going to watch

00:53:18.409 --> 00:53:19.869
them all. I watched like three and I was just

00:53:19.869 --> 00:53:24.389
like, well, some of the stories are cool. But

00:53:24.389 --> 00:53:25.429
I mean, it was also a lot of them were like the

00:53:25.429 --> 00:53:27.829
same old, same old. It was like man or woman

00:53:27.829 --> 00:53:30.510
goes to Craig. They want to climb this hard thing.

00:53:30.650 --> 00:53:35.849
They fail. Injury. Whatever. It rained. Last

00:53:35.849 --> 00:53:38.010
day of trip, going to try hard one more time.

00:53:38.130 --> 00:53:41.349
Sent project, which is like cool and all, but

00:53:41.349 --> 00:53:43.389
like I don't get to actually see the holds they're

00:53:43.389 --> 00:53:47.989
climbing, the rock they're on. Like I think all

00:53:47.989 --> 00:53:51.670
the, and none of them have audio, like video

00:53:51.670 --> 00:53:53.389
description. It's like when I do watch things,

00:53:53.489 --> 00:53:57.809
I only watch shows or movies that have described

00:53:57.809 --> 00:54:01.829
video. And I would watch more Real Rocks or other

00:54:01.829 --> 00:54:05.150
climbing films if they. describe them the one

00:54:05.150 --> 00:54:07.789
i was kind of upset about is eric weinmeier he's

00:54:07.789 --> 00:54:11.250
probably the most famous blind rock climber alpinist

00:54:11.250 --> 00:54:16.309
skier kayaker biker i'll be above clint everest

00:54:16.309 --> 00:54:18.030
he's climbed the seven tallest peaks in the world

00:54:18.030 --> 00:54:24.349
and he's a b1 um and he has a real rocks out

00:54:24.349 --> 00:54:25.969
and i was super stoked i think it's the first

00:54:25.969 --> 00:54:30.369
one i found and same thing like no one's describing

00:54:30.369 --> 00:54:32.429
anything so i'm just like shit like of all the

00:54:32.429 --> 00:54:34.489
movies that should have described video that

00:54:34.489 --> 00:54:36.869
makes sense this one i think would have it and

00:54:36.869 --> 00:54:39.849
it doesn't yeah so yeah i don't know if anyone's

00:54:39.849 --> 00:54:41.969
listening to this that can chime in and make

00:54:41.969 --> 00:54:44.349
this happen but you would get more of an audience

00:54:44.349 --> 00:54:49.250
base i mean for blind people um i mean not just

00:54:49.250 --> 00:54:53.250
that even it's like when i lived in the van me

00:54:53.250 --> 00:54:56.889
and my girlfriend would watch some say seinfeld

00:54:56.889 --> 00:55:00.889
for instance and At first it was really annoying

00:55:00.889 --> 00:55:03.989
for her to have to listen to these things. And

00:55:03.989 --> 00:55:05.809
it got to the point where she would now, even

00:55:05.809 --> 00:55:08.329
when I wasn't around, be listening to stuff on

00:55:08.329 --> 00:55:09.630
described video. Cause you'd be like cooking

00:55:09.630 --> 00:55:13.210
or doing work. Cause it, yeah, like it describes

00:55:13.210 --> 00:55:16.190
so much. I remember her and I went to a movie

00:55:16.190 --> 00:55:18.650
once. Cause I used to, again, I am stubborn.

00:55:18.710 --> 00:55:21.010
I don't like change. I go to the movie theater.

00:55:22.090 --> 00:55:24.190
She hears about like the described videos. They're

00:55:24.190 --> 00:55:26.530
going to give me headphones. I was like, whatever.

00:55:26.670 --> 00:55:29.380
I'm like, this is so annoying. But I was like,

00:55:29.400 --> 00:55:32.559
I'll do a whole movie like it or with this. And

00:55:32.559 --> 00:55:35.059
then we leave the movie and are being like, oh,

00:55:35.079 --> 00:55:37.079
wow. Like as if the girl in the red dress had

00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:38.880
the key the whole time. It's like in the movie,

00:55:38.920 --> 00:55:41.500
they like unlock some box or something. She's

00:55:41.500 --> 00:55:42.599
like, how did you know that? She's like, I was

00:55:42.599 --> 00:55:44.659
curious who had the key, where the key came from.

00:55:45.059 --> 00:55:46.460
I was like, I don't know. The man on the headset

00:55:46.460 --> 00:55:48.199
was like, the girl in the red dress is handing

00:55:48.199 --> 00:55:51.820
the man the key. And she then would start listening

00:55:51.820 --> 00:55:55.000
to movies with the described video as well, because

00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:59.179
it just makes it easier. to watch things even

00:55:59.179 --> 00:56:02.639
my stepdad because i'll have it on tv at home

00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:06.179
and at first it annoyed him he obviously would

00:56:06.179 --> 00:56:08.440
be turning it off and eventually he's like oh

00:56:08.440 --> 00:56:11.119
i can now be like you know on my tablet looking

00:56:11.119 --> 00:56:13.659
at things while watching a movie because it's

00:56:13.659 --> 00:56:15.800
like describing it all to me you don't have to

00:56:15.800 --> 00:56:20.239
even look at it um so yeah try it sometime it's

00:56:20.239 --> 00:56:22.639
kind of neat how does it work with like the dialogue

00:56:22.639 --> 00:56:25.179
on top of it is it just like a lot of talking

00:56:25.179 --> 00:56:27.969
at once Companies are pretty good nowadays. They,

00:56:28.050 --> 00:56:31.309
cause a lot of times dialogue gives you enough.

00:56:31.389 --> 00:56:36.449
And then when there's a pause, they'll just kind

00:56:36.449 --> 00:56:40.550
of say something that is important to the, like,

00:56:40.670 --> 00:56:42.329
for instance, on Seinfeld, you know, a Kramer

00:56:42.329 --> 00:56:43.929
kind of like comes sliding through the door.

00:56:44.289 --> 00:56:46.909
It would be like a man with crazy hair slides

00:56:46.909 --> 00:56:49.530
across the floor while entering the room. And

00:56:49.530 --> 00:56:52.090
it's just like a quick saying that. So it's now

00:56:52.090 --> 00:56:54.829
like painting that photo in your mind of this

00:56:54.829 --> 00:56:58.440
man with crazy hair. And that's all it says.

00:56:58.579 --> 00:56:59.760
And then all of a sudden they start talking.

00:56:59.840 --> 00:57:01.440
You don't need to know what color shirt they

00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:03.980
have on. It's not telling you useless information.

00:57:05.099 --> 00:57:09.079
It's just giving you a couple little tidbits

00:57:09.079 --> 00:57:12.800
of information here and there. Interesting. Okay.

00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:16.820
So then going back to like comp clapping real

00:57:16.820 --> 00:57:19.400
quick, is there anything that makes you feel

00:57:19.400 --> 00:57:22.119
unsafe when you're on the wall? No. Maybe the

00:57:22.119 --> 00:57:25.960
odd time if I... I know that I'm going to take

00:57:25.960 --> 00:57:28.940
a big swing. And if there's volumes out of the

00:57:28.940 --> 00:57:35.480
wall, cause I, yeah, I'm just like, Jesus take

00:57:35.480 --> 00:57:40.539
the wheel type of thing. In terms of like depth

00:57:40.539 --> 00:57:42.699
perception, is that what it is? Yeah. I can't

00:57:42.699 --> 00:57:45.539
see that. And it's happening so quickly. I don't

00:57:45.539 --> 00:57:49.340
have a chance to react. Well, we just had Canadian

00:57:49.340 --> 00:57:52.599
nationals a couple of weeks ago and jazz. And

00:57:52.599 --> 00:57:57.039
I went to that and. They merged some categories,

00:57:57.059 --> 00:57:59.980
which happens sometimes. So they merged me with

00:57:59.980 --> 00:58:03.780
a B1, but then they called the category B3, which

00:58:03.780 --> 00:58:06.679
doesn't make sense because Terry can't just magically

00:58:06.679 --> 00:58:10.519
see a little bit better. So then I thought it

00:58:10.519 --> 00:58:15.099
would be fair if I blindfolded myself to level

00:58:15.099 --> 00:58:18.780
the playing field, but I've never done that before.

00:58:19.219 --> 00:58:22.340
And then when I fell, I thought I was just in

00:58:22.340 --> 00:58:25.570
thin air falling. And I wasn't, well, I mean,

00:58:25.590 --> 00:58:27.570
I was until I wasn't when I smashed my face in

00:58:27.570 --> 00:58:30.429
the wall because I didn't put my hands out. I

00:58:30.429 --> 00:58:32.570
can normally see enough to tell like, okay, there

00:58:32.570 --> 00:58:35.949
is a wall coming. I don't know. And again, this

00:58:35.949 --> 00:58:39.030
is hurt sometimes if I like put my feet out and

00:58:39.030 --> 00:58:41.510
I hit a hole, then it like twists my ankle or

00:58:41.510 --> 00:58:44.210
something. But I've kind of just learned over

00:58:44.210 --> 00:58:47.170
the years to be more rigid. I mean, not even

00:58:47.170 --> 00:58:48.829
rigid, like learning how to like hit it and like

00:58:48.829 --> 00:58:52.489
absorb the impact. Yeah, I don't seem to get

00:58:52.489 --> 00:58:55.769
hurt so much anymore. Earlier on, I used to quite

00:58:55.769 --> 00:58:58.030
a bit, but it was mostly, I was always rolling

00:58:58.030 --> 00:59:01.869
my ankles, walking before I acquired hiking sticks.

00:59:02.929 --> 00:59:04.829
So they were always like sprained and then I'd

00:59:04.829 --> 00:59:06.590
go into the wall and it would twist it more.

00:59:08.030 --> 00:59:10.210
The first like two years of my sight loss, I

00:59:10.210 --> 00:59:13.289
basically like always had a boot on or an ankle

00:59:13.289 --> 00:59:17.090
brace. I guess that makes sense in a way. Yeah,

00:59:17.170 --> 00:59:18.469
I mean, it didn't stop me from living though.

00:59:19.849 --> 00:59:24.050
I still climbed all the time, either one -legged

00:59:24.050 --> 00:59:27.710
or dragging my boot up the wall, using it as

00:59:27.710 --> 00:59:30.210
best I could. Actually, that reminds me of this

00:59:30.210 --> 00:59:34.449
one video I saw of a climber. I think it was

00:59:34.449 --> 00:59:37.969
during some older World Cup where he topped the

00:59:37.969 --> 00:59:41.789
route or topped the boulder. And then he was

00:59:41.789 --> 00:59:44.929
celebrating. He was really happy. And then as

00:59:44.929 --> 00:59:48.050
he jumped down, I think he closed his eyes and

00:59:48.050 --> 00:59:52.940
he... misjudged like how far away the ground

00:59:52.940 --> 00:59:57.539
was and so he stiffened before he actually hit

00:59:57.539 --> 00:59:59.500
the ground and then i think he like hurt his

00:59:59.500 --> 01:00:02.340
back really bad or something and that was like

01:00:02.340 --> 01:00:05.199
a really bad injury i bet bouldering is very

01:00:05.199 --> 01:00:09.099
tough for blind people it so i was just bowling

01:00:09.099 --> 01:00:12.199
the other day and i'll get to the top and i'll

01:00:12.199 --> 01:00:15.400
like hang there i'll be like i was like let go

01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:18.900
And I just like wait for my feet to hit. And

01:00:18.900 --> 01:00:21.699
it's like feet butt back. And I like absorb the

01:00:21.699 --> 01:00:24.400
roll as quick as I can. And it's exhilarating

01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:28.199
in the moment, but if it's not controlled, like

01:00:28.199 --> 01:00:30.880
my favorite time to fall is when I don't know

01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:33.280
it's coming. Like, cause then it's just like,

01:00:33.300 --> 01:00:34.760
you don't have a chance. And I just kind of like

01:00:34.760 --> 01:00:38.820
naturally fall and like roll. Don't ever seem

01:00:38.820 --> 01:00:42.139
to get hurt. It's more stressful when I'm at

01:00:42.139 --> 01:00:44.780
the top and have to like actively think about

01:00:44.780 --> 01:00:48.449
I'm going to. now let go it's like you don't

01:00:48.449 --> 01:00:49.889
want to straighten up you don't want to like

01:00:49.889 --> 01:00:53.789
lock your knees um because like things like that

01:00:53.789 --> 01:00:55.309
happen all the time because i have no idea how

01:00:55.309 --> 01:00:59.750
far away it is so i'm just winging it um terrifying

01:00:59.750 --> 01:01:01.769
yeah for the most part it goes really well but

01:01:01.769 --> 01:01:05.510
it took me a long time to get there i for the

01:01:05.510 --> 01:01:07.289
longest time i wouldn't climb anything if i couldn't

01:01:07.289 --> 01:01:09.630
down climb it and every time i'd be like freaking

01:01:09.630 --> 01:01:10.949
out trying to down climb because i'd be like

01:01:10.949 --> 01:01:14.829
super pumped and trying to down climb and Be

01:01:14.829 --> 01:01:18.530
like, help me find my feet type of thing. Panicking,

01:01:18.550 --> 01:01:20.730
I'm like, I'm never doing that again. I mean,

01:01:20.750 --> 01:01:26.610
I obviously do, but it makes it hard to project

01:01:26.610 --> 01:01:29.809
and stuff when you are literally terrified of

01:01:29.809 --> 01:01:31.829
falling because you're like, I'm not just going

01:01:31.829 --> 01:01:33.130
to fall on my own, I'm going to break my ankle.

01:01:35.250 --> 01:01:37.869
But it took a while. That's why when I think

01:01:37.869 --> 01:01:40.929
like new blind people, rock climbing, it's always

01:01:40.929 --> 01:01:44.539
on ropes first. right yeah that makes sense just

01:01:44.539 --> 01:01:48.639
because yeah bouldering while blind is pretty

01:01:48.639 --> 01:01:53.260
sketchy yeah no yeah i i probably wouldn't do

01:01:53.260 --> 01:01:55.619
it yeah i mean like next time you're at the gym

01:01:55.619 --> 01:01:58.420
go to the top like close your eyes no i'm not

01:01:58.420 --> 01:02:01.980
doing that go halfway then and and keep your

01:02:01.980 --> 01:02:04.019
knees bent because like you don't want to walk

01:02:04.019 --> 01:02:07.000
your knee yeah um because i've definitely had

01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:09.360
things like that happen where I'm doing the same

01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:11.519
route, falling in the same spot. And I think

01:02:11.519 --> 01:02:15.340
I know how far it is, but for some reason remembered

01:02:15.340 --> 01:02:18.420
it wrong and like straightened my knee too far

01:02:18.420 --> 01:02:22.840
or something. So luckily I've never really injured

01:02:22.840 --> 01:02:25.840
myself too hard that way. And mind you, I still,

01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:28.000
I don't know, I was climbing, I don't know if

01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:30.539
you knew this or not, but in Central Park in

01:02:30.539 --> 01:02:33.579
New York, there's bouldering there. Yeah, I've

01:02:33.579 --> 01:02:36.500
heard. And I was there and like one of the head

01:02:36.500 --> 01:02:40.750
coaches for the USA, para climbing team was meeting

01:02:40.750 --> 01:02:43.769
me in central park to take me bouldering and

01:02:43.769 --> 01:02:48.010
as i was waiting for phil i saw these other guys

01:02:48.010 --> 01:02:49.530
climbing i was like oh just like come and start

01:02:49.530 --> 01:02:52.650
hanging out with you guys and then they went

01:02:52.650 --> 01:02:55.769
to like move the mat when i was falling and they

01:02:55.769 --> 01:03:00.210
moved it not correctly and i landed not poor

01:03:00.210 --> 01:03:02.449
like i landed like feet butt back but i hit the

01:03:02.449 --> 01:03:04.929
ground so hard like to this day i was two years

01:03:04.929 --> 01:03:06.750
ago like the bottom of my right heel is still

01:03:06.750 --> 01:03:12.170
like It feels broken. Yeah, it hasn't healed

01:03:12.170 --> 01:03:13.690
yet. I don't know what's going on with it. It

01:03:13.690 --> 01:03:15.210
should maybe get it worked out one day. Yeah,

01:03:15.210 --> 01:03:19.289
that's not good to hear. Yeah, but I feel like,

01:03:19.329 --> 01:03:22.849
because I let go, and if I could see, I probably

01:03:22.849 --> 01:03:24.409
would have been like, hey, move the mat a little

01:03:24.409 --> 01:03:26.949
bit, because I'm not going to hit it. But I just

01:03:26.949 --> 01:03:29.610
have faith in people. Well, did they know that

01:03:29.610 --> 01:03:32.250
you have visual impairments? No, I don't tell

01:03:32.250 --> 01:03:36.289
people that normally, most of the time. Sometimes

01:03:36.289 --> 01:03:38.480
it comes out. I mean, eventually if I talk to

01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:41.539
you long enough, it comes out, but, uh, I don't

01:03:41.539 --> 01:03:44.679
normally, I try to hide it a lot of the time,

01:03:44.699 --> 01:03:47.460
to be honest. Why is that? Sometimes it's annoying

01:03:47.460 --> 01:03:52.340
to deal with, with that. And then also, I mean,

01:03:52.340 --> 01:03:56.039
the main thing I think is, uh, having to deal

01:03:56.039 --> 01:03:58.380
with the whole, like you're faking it, or I know

01:03:58.380 --> 01:04:02.019
you could see, for instance, on the way back

01:04:02.019 --> 01:04:04.699
from the gym. Now I had to walk through, I cut

01:04:04.699 --> 01:04:07.159
through this school. And the kids are out for

01:04:07.159 --> 01:04:10.239
recess. And I was like, oh, damn, like, what's

01:04:10.239 --> 01:04:12.280
the rules with that? But I was like, sure. I'm

01:04:12.280 --> 01:04:13.719
like, I'm just going to quick cut through. It's

01:04:13.719 --> 01:04:16.440
like 10 meters. I had to walk to the yard. And

01:04:16.440 --> 01:04:18.340
I had my cane in my hand, but I was folded up.

01:04:18.980 --> 01:04:21.639
And then I like walk straight to the fence. I

01:04:21.639 --> 01:04:23.960
know where the handle is. I do this every day.

01:04:24.940 --> 01:04:27.619
And then I can hear these little kids being like,

01:04:27.679 --> 01:04:29.280
that guy's blind. And like, how did he do that?

01:04:29.699 --> 01:04:32.159
And then, oh, he is blind. He has a cane or he

01:04:32.159 --> 01:04:33.780
has a stick in his hand. And I'm like listening

01:04:33.780 --> 01:04:36.099
to this conversation happening. And it was like

01:04:36.099 --> 01:04:39.079
really cute because there were kids. And if I

01:04:39.079 --> 01:04:40.760
wasn't worried about getting like a trespassing

01:04:40.760 --> 01:04:43.239
fine, or I don't know what the rules are for

01:04:43.239 --> 01:04:44.800
cutting through school property with kids there,

01:04:44.920 --> 01:04:48.239
but I just kept moving. I would have maybe stopped

01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:51.119
and had a conversation with them to, you know,

01:04:51.119 --> 01:04:54.139
educate them a bit because again, prior to being

01:04:54.139 --> 01:04:56.739
in this world, I was unaware of it. And due to

01:04:56.739 --> 01:04:59.460
lack of education, like I wasn't willfully ignorant

01:04:59.460 --> 01:05:03.440
to it. I just never really thought of looking

01:05:03.440 --> 01:05:06.409
into what blindness is. but anyways i'll have

01:05:06.409 --> 01:05:09.329
those same interactions with adults and stuff

01:05:09.329 --> 01:05:13.429
and it's always hearing the same old thing like

01:05:13.429 --> 01:05:17.510
like because they see me do something if they

01:05:17.510 --> 01:05:19.829
know i'm blind it's always like well you can't

01:05:19.829 --> 01:05:23.590
be blind you just did that like a very memorable

01:05:23.590 --> 01:05:27.409
moment for that is i remember going so i have

01:05:27.409 --> 01:05:30.889
two sons and you know they're young and growing

01:05:30.889 --> 01:05:35.769
and we're going swimming and my one son His bathing

01:05:35.769 --> 01:05:37.650
suit didn't fit him and the pool was going to

01:05:37.650 --> 01:05:40.050
close like an hour. So I asked my mom to drive

01:05:40.050 --> 01:05:42.010
us to Walmart to get him a bathing suit. I was

01:05:42.010 --> 01:05:43.170
like, everyone stay in the car. I'm just going

01:05:43.170 --> 01:05:46.510
to run in quick, grab it and leave. And then

01:05:46.510 --> 01:05:48.730
I'm like running around the store, walking pretty

01:05:48.730 --> 01:05:52.130
quickly and I can't find a bathing suit. So when

01:05:52.130 --> 01:05:54.889
I see an employee and I was like, you know, excuse

01:05:54.889 --> 01:05:57.050
me, excuse me, can you help me find a bathing

01:05:57.050 --> 01:05:59.190
suit? She's like, they're over there. I was like,

01:05:59.230 --> 01:06:00.449
yeah, I know they're over here, but I'm like,

01:06:00.469 --> 01:06:02.510
I'm visually impaired. I've been looking, I can't

01:06:02.510 --> 01:06:04.929
find one. Can you please help me? And she was

01:06:04.929 --> 01:06:06.789
like, well, you move pretty quick for somebody

01:06:06.789 --> 01:06:09.250
who claims they can't see very well. I'm just

01:06:09.250 --> 01:06:12.289
like, can you just help me find a bathing suit?

01:06:12.449 --> 01:06:14.969
Like, what is that? Like, in what world do we

01:06:14.969 --> 01:06:17.250
live in that it says a blind man can only walk

01:06:17.250 --> 01:06:22.349
this fast? Where it's just like, literally, if

01:06:22.349 --> 01:06:25.349
you look into anything, it was like the 2015

01:06:25.349 --> 01:06:29.969
Olympics. One of the blind, like a B1, so a completely

01:06:29.969 --> 01:06:32.929
blind sprinter ran the hundred meter quicker

01:06:32.929 --> 01:06:36.960
than. some of the slowest able -bodied Olympians.

01:06:36.980 --> 01:06:41.900
Like he ran like a 10 point something, 100 meters.

01:06:41.940 --> 01:06:44.079
So it's just like this man who's tethered to

01:06:44.079 --> 01:06:48.559
another human is running as quick as able -bodied

01:06:48.559 --> 01:06:51.579
Olympic athletes. Oh, okay. I didn't know they

01:06:51.579 --> 01:06:53.780
did it that way. That's cool. Yeah. So like it's,

01:06:53.780 --> 01:06:57.320
again, like this guy, and I have some vision,

01:06:57.360 --> 01:07:02.199
so it's less. Yeah. Things that it's just, it's

01:07:02.199 --> 01:07:06.380
annoying to have to be doubted all the time.

01:07:07.579 --> 01:07:09.880
Like I even have friends of mine who know, like

01:07:09.880 --> 01:07:11.519
if we're driving, say they're driving me home

01:07:11.519 --> 01:07:14.739
or something and they'll, people always make

01:07:14.739 --> 01:07:16.900
this mistake. They always turn, try to turn a

01:07:16.900 --> 01:07:20.659
road that's one road early. And I'm always just

01:07:20.659 --> 01:07:22.840
like, no, not, not yet. Like, oh, I knew you

01:07:22.840 --> 01:07:26.119
could see. I'm just like, well, like, no, like

01:07:26.119 --> 01:07:29.369
I've lived here my whole life. I know that you

01:07:29.369 --> 01:07:31.570
haven't driven far enough. Like I could be tied

01:07:31.570 --> 01:07:33.449
up in a trunk and I would know you're turning

01:07:33.449 --> 01:07:37.750
on the wrong road. Um, yeah, I think hearing

01:07:37.750 --> 01:07:41.030
things like that are just annoying quite often.

01:07:41.269 --> 01:07:45.150
And you had also, um, brought up, uh, like the

01:07:45.150 --> 01:07:48.769
Olympics or the Paralympics. Um, and of course,

01:07:48.769 --> 01:07:53.809
yeah, big news, para climbing 2028. I'm stoked.

01:07:54.110 --> 01:07:57.349
Yeah. Any thoughts on that? Yeah. Um, if you're

01:07:57.349 --> 01:07:59.650
going to compete. Oh, I'm going to compete. The

01:07:59.650 --> 01:08:04.789
only thing that would stop me would be they haven't

01:08:04.789 --> 01:08:08.909
announced the categories yet. So in para climbing,

01:08:09.150 --> 01:08:14.909
there are 10 categories, male, female. So that's

01:08:14.909 --> 01:08:20.289
like a ton of medals. So if you remember with

01:08:20.289 --> 01:08:23.609
the able -bodied climbing, Tokyo, they had to

01:08:23.609 --> 01:08:26.720
do the combined all three disciplines. Yeah.

01:08:26.899 --> 01:08:28.539
Like the reason why they did that is because

01:08:28.539 --> 01:08:31.180
they could only issue so many medals. So they

01:08:31.180 --> 01:08:33.260
had, you know, six medals to give out, three

01:08:33.260 --> 01:08:36.880
male, three female. And then they then for Paris

01:08:36.880 --> 01:08:41.619
were allotted, you know, 12 medals. So they can

01:08:41.619 --> 01:08:43.939
now have two different events. And I think they're

01:08:43.939 --> 01:08:47.619
hoping to have, you know, three sets of medals

01:08:47.619 --> 01:08:50.119
so they can have individual disciplines like

01:08:50.119 --> 01:08:53.460
the speed, boulder, lead. But it takes time.

01:08:54.729 --> 01:08:59.710
for the Olympic Federation to allow a lot that

01:08:59.710 --> 01:09:04.409
many medals to see sports. So for us, they haven't

01:09:04.409 --> 01:09:08.390
told us what categories are going to be involved,

01:09:08.670 --> 01:09:11.569
if there's going to be merging. I mean, all of

01:09:11.569 --> 01:09:14.609
this is just rumors, but a lot of talk is blind

01:09:14.609 --> 01:09:18.029
people don't look disabled. So it's not enough

01:09:18.029 --> 01:09:23.029
inspiration porn for us to be on the TV, I suppose.

01:09:24.270 --> 01:09:25.829
Even, like, a lot of people find blind climbing

01:09:25.829 --> 01:09:29.949
very interesting. And my suggestion to the IFSC

01:09:29.949 --> 01:09:35.869
was to televise the callers, like, mic both of

01:09:35.869 --> 01:09:38.050
us. I mean, we're already mic'd. Oh, yeah, that

01:09:38.050 --> 01:09:40.250
would be interesting, yeah. That way, if at home,

01:09:40.270 --> 01:09:41.989
you're not just flipping through the channels

01:09:41.989 --> 01:09:45.789
and seeing some man or woman climbing slowly,

01:09:46.069 --> 01:09:50.289
you can hear the two -way. Because, like, yeah,

01:09:50.310 --> 01:09:55.460
there's chatter back and forth. I think it's

01:09:55.460 --> 01:09:58.500
very interesting to listen to the back and forth

01:09:58.500 --> 01:10:02.819
conversation. Like I even me, like I wish I could

01:10:02.819 --> 01:10:04.920
hear what's happening through the other people.

01:10:06.199 --> 01:10:08.619
I feel like some teams don't want to share that

01:10:08.619 --> 01:10:13.039
because they have developed their own secret

01:10:13.039 --> 01:10:15.779
information. Yeah. And they don't want everyone

01:10:15.779 --> 01:10:18.000
to know the beta that they have. I hope they

01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:22.439
get over themselves and that's not. I think it

01:10:22.439 --> 01:10:25.979
makes it very engaging too. And also it makes

01:10:25.979 --> 01:10:30.199
climbing this team sport. It's very much, so

01:10:30.199 --> 01:10:32.239
even at the Canadian Nationals, and I think,

01:10:32.260 --> 01:10:35.140
so USA Nationals just happened. They're now,

01:10:35.319 --> 01:10:39.000
and a lot of other blind sports, the caller or

01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:42.899
the guide are treated equal to the athlete. I

01:10:42.899 --> 01:10:47.319
just referenced the 100 meter dash. You ain't

01:10:47.319 --> 01:10:50.800
just some random dude. You're an Olympic athlete.

01:10:51.229 --> 01:10:54.189
to be that guy's guide like the guy who ran that

01:10:54.189 --> 01:10:57.869
10 10 .5 seconds with him also just beat a guy

01:10:57.869 --> 01:11:00.550
who was in the olympics so it's just like but

01:11:00.550 --> 01:11:03.689
he's there's a canadian cross -country skier

01:11:03.689 --> 01:11:07.750
he's on both teams and again his brother is his

01:11:07.750 --> 01:11:10.689
guide but his brother's also an olympic cross

01:11:10.689 --> 01:11:13.430
-country skier yeah and they train together every

01:11:13.430 --> 01:11:16.090
day anyways so like i mean like you need to have

01:11:16.090 --> 01:11:20.289
high level guides so then they need to be treated

01:11:21.229 --> 01:11:23.109
You know, like they've been getting medals, like

01:11:23.109 --> 01:11:25.890
other sports, if there's a cash prize, the caller

01:11:25.890 --> 01:11:28.909
or guide will get, you know, that money as well.

01:11:29.930 --> 01:11:31.869
Because they, and that's an argument people have

01:11:31.869 --> 01:11:33.449
is like, yeah, but they're not training as hard,

01:11:33.449 --> 01:11:36.529
say in climbing. Because, you know, if I'm doing

01:11:36.529 --> 01:11:38.729
off the wall training, like say this afternoon,

01:11:39.050 --> 01:11:41.590
you know, Jazz is going to call for me. So that's

01:11:41.590 --> 01:11:44.449
equal time spent. But this morning when I spent

01:11:44.449 --> 01:11:46.409
a couple hours at the YMCA working out, like

01:11:46.409 --> 01:11:50.100
she wasn't there doing that. So it's not a hundred

01:11:50.100 --> 01:11:53.399
percent equal, but she's still putting a lot

01:11:53.399 --> 01:11:55.000
of time in and she still has to, you know, be

01:11:55.000 --> 01:11:57.520
educated on the hold. But yeah, so I hope that

01:11:57.520 --> 01:12:01.600
they merge us as I think, I don't know what they're

01:12:01.600 --> 01:12:05.399
going to do, but they, for a lot of other blind

01:12:05.399 --> 01:12:09.579
sports. They combine B1, B2, B3, and they just

01:12:09.579 --> 01:12:12.100
blindfold everyone. Yeah, I was going to say

01:12:12.100 --> 01:12:15.020
like in terms of inspiration porn, being blindfolded

01:12:15.020 --> 01:12:18.520
is pretty decent, I think. Yeah. I mean, also

01:12:18.520 --> 01:12:23.020
someone who has classified as a B3 and I have

01:12:23.020 --> 01:12:25.800
central vision, or I have no central vision and

01:12:25.800 --> 01:12:27.880
they do have central vision, people can argue,

01:12:27.939 --> 01:12:30.779
well, that's not even fair because that person

01:12:30.779 --> 01:12:33.500
could view the whole route where I can't. Like,

01:12:33.520 --> 01:12:35.539
I don't get into the nitty gritty details like

01:12:35.539 --> 01:12:37.300
that. Like, I don't like to complain about things.

01:12:37.399 --> 01:12:39.159
I'm just grateful that I get to climb these wicked

01:12:39.159 --> 01:12:44.659
awesome routes and that we, you know, are involved.

01:12:44.960 --> 01:12:49.039
Like, I feel, and again, I wasn't aware of this,

01:12:49.119 --> 01:12:53.779
but a lot of disabled people grew up never getting

01:12:53.779 --> 01:12:58.659
to experience sports or, you know, being included

01:12:58.659 --> 01:13:05.659
in the things. blind people I meet are, they

01:13:05.659 --> 01:13:07.939
don't have like people skills or they're very,

01:13:08.039 --> 01:13:09.560
they're not very confident in themselves and

01:13:09.560 --> 01:13:12.140
their abilities. And it's because they haven't

01:13:12.140 --> 01:13:15.399
been given opportunities to do anything. And

01:13:15.399 --> 01:13:19.039
they're, they're babied and treated so differently.

01:13:19.140 --> 01:13:20.619
I'm just like, I'm not any different than you

01:13:20.619 --> 01:13:22.960
are. I just don't see, I mean, I can do everything

01:13:22.960 --> 01:13:24.699
you can do. I just do differently than you do.

01:13:25.300 --> 01:13:27.859
I mean, other than driving a car illegally, there's

01:13:27.859 --> 01:13:30.060
nothing that anyone else can do that I can't,

01:13:30.060 --> 01:13:33.909
that I can drive. Not on roads. No, I'm joking.

01:13:34.069 --> 01:13:36.750
Oh my gosh. I was going to say, wait, how? I

01:13:36.750 --> 01:13:39.470
had no idea. I drive by feel when I hit bumps,

01:13:39.529 --> 01:13:42.750
I turn. Yeah. Like I'll drive off, off road and

01:13:42.750 --> 01:13:44.350
stuff. I have a friend of mine. I won't say her

01:13:44.350 --> 01:13:47.670
name, but she's sponsored by a car company that

01:13:47.670 --> 01:13:50.869
I won't mention their name. And she's been known

01:13:50.869 --> 01:13:55.409
to let me drive her fancy expensive vehicle off

01:13:55.409 --> 01:14:00.880
road more than once. Because, yeah, like, I can

01:14:00.880 --> 01:14:04.600
drive. I just, when there's nothing around for

01:14:04.600 --> 01:14:07.840
me to hit. Yeah, okay. Yeah, if I drove on the

01:14:07.840 --> 01:14:11.020
road, I would probably kill someone. So I don't

01:14:11.020 --> 01:14:12.239
do that. Well, then you wouldn't know to turn,

01:14:12.300 --> 01:14:16.920
so. Yeah. But, like, I mean, I have an ATV and

01:14:16.920 --> 01:14:21.380
stuff that I started riding again. And I, yeah,

01:14:21.460 --> 01:14:23.539
same thing. I just, like, follow a friend. And

01:14:23.539 --> 01:14:26.500
once I've been on the trail a couple times, I

01:14:26.500 --> 01:14:31.949
know it, I remember it. Yeah, I do everything

01:14:31.949 --> 01:14:35.189
other than driving a car. I've learned how to,

01:14:35.310 --> 01:14:37.489
like there's a saying of mine, it's instead of

01:14:37.489 --> 01:14:40.409
saying I can't, say how can I? And that's like

01:14:40.409 --> 01:14:43.250
a very powerful thing to me. Because early on

01:14:43.250 --> 01:14:45.609
I was constantly saying I can't, I can't do this,

01:14:45.630 --> 01:14:49.369
I can't do that. And my older sister, when she

01:14:49.369 --> 01:14:51.430
said to me like, quit saying I can't, start saying

01:14:51.430 --> 01:14:56.850
how can I? Yeah. And now I will always do that.

01:14:57.130 --> 01:14:59.159
That's a good way of thinking about it. I was

01:14:59.159 --> 01:15:02.119
also wondering, like going back to, I guess like

01:15:02.119 --> 01:15:06.039
the para climbing or Paralympics, how much of

01:15:06.039 --> 01:15:08.560
a difference do you feel when you're climbing

01:15:08.560 --> 01:15:10.819
blindfolded versus with the site you currently

01:15:10.819 --> 01:15:14.520
have? It's definitely way different as I already

01:15:14.520 --> 01:15:18.399
shared. Falling is different. I mean, but once

01:15:18.399 --> 01:15:20.439
I did that, I then learned that I need to like,

01:15:20.479 --> 01:15:23.380
you know, be prepared. And like, believe it or

01:15:23.380 --> 01:15:25.600
not, you can hear the wall. Like, you know, in

01:15:25.600 --> 01:15:28.840
hockey, I can hear. where the boards are like

01:15:28.840 --> 01:15:32.100
the echoing off of it and yeah i just wasn't

01:15:32.100 --> 01:15:33.939
like i said i wasn't preparing myself at all

01:15:33.939 --> 01:15:36.880
because i thought that i was just like gonna

01:15:36.880 --> 01:15:38.560
because i think it was my second route the first

01:15:38.560 --> 01:15:40.619
route i fell like a lot of it's overhung so you

01:15:40.619 --> 01:15:44.319
just fall and then you just get lowered and you're

01:15:44.319 --> 01:15:49.399
just in air but for some reason i i swung in

01:15:49.399 --> 01:15:53.180
to the wall so moving forward i was then now

01:15:53.180 --> 01:15:55.720
prepared and like it was actually like listening

01:15:56.250 --> 01:15:59.710
for when the wall was coming so it's definitely

01:15:59.710 --> 01:16:03.949
you need to practice more with your collar because

01:16:03.949 --> 01:16:08.029
yeah like at least when i'm told okay next hold

01:16:08.029 --> 01:16:10.590
grab it with your left hand and grab the top

01:16:10.590 --> 01:16:13.890
of it i know like exactly kind of where to go

01:16:13.890 --> 01:16:17.109
versus now i'm blindfolded it's just like you

01:16:17.109 --> 01:16:20.430
know i have no idea they say like you know left

01:16:20.430 --> 01:16:24.229
the 10 o 'clock well how far three feet six inches

01:16:25.130 --> 01:16:28.430
So there's like a lot of like, it's more static

01:16:28.430 --> 01:16:30.189
climbing, which we statically climb anyways,

01:16:30.289 --> 01:16:33.050
but then you, you reach, you don't feel that

01:16:33.050 --> 01:16:34.449
I have to like correct you. Like, you know, go

01:16:34.449 --> 01:16:36.390
down, down and stop, go right, right, right.

01:16:36.449 --> 01:16:41.409
Stop. So all those little micro movements, they

01:16:41.409 --> 01:16:45.069
all add up to, to a lot at the end. So I think

01:16:45.069 --> 01:16:46.609
that's maybe some of the beta that people don't

01:16:46.609 --> 01:16:49.989
want exposed is I've heard of other callers that

01:16:49.989 --> 01:16:53.289
have like the, the body's kind of broken up into

01:16:53.289 --> 01:16:56.319
quadrants. And then within the quadrant, they'll

01:16:56.319 --> 01:16:59.199
have, you know, a number system in there. So

01:16:59.199 --> 01:17:01.359
if, you know, if this is quadrant number two,

01:17:01.380 --> 01:17:03.119
it'd be like, you know, two, three would mean

01:17:03.119 --> 01:17:07.640
like here. Interesting. So I feel like those

01:17:07.640 --> 01:17:10.640
are the secrets that people don't want exposed

01:17:10.640 --> 01:17:13.359
because they don't want other people to know

01:17:13.359 --> 01:17:16.500
what they're using and then incorporate that

01:17:16.500 --> 01:17:21.640
into their climbing. Okay. So like, I do understand

01:17:21.640 --> 01:17:25.640
that aspect of it. It's kind of like, you know,

01:17:25.640 --> 01:17:27.380
in football or something, people have these plays

01:17:27.380 --> 01:17:31.399
written down and they're secret. Yeah, I guess

01:17:31.399 --> 01:17:34.800
I could see that. Yeah. So, I mean, if that's

01:17:34.800 --> 01:17:40.859
the edge that you need, then take it. But it's

01:17:40.859 --> 01:17:44.539
definitely more difficult. But if they, I hope

01:17:44.539 --> 01:17:48.659
that they allow us time. Like they're supposed

01:17:48.659 --> 01:17:52.970
to tell us this summer, I think. which they always

01:17:52.970 --> 01:17:56.050
are late with everything they tell us so maybe

01:17:56.050 --> 01:17:58.550
next summer i'll know and then it'll give me

01:17:58.550 --> 01:18:03.390
two years to to train okay well i hope that works

01:18:03.390 --> 01:18:08.489
out yeah and then um going into a bit more of

01:18:08.489 --> 01:18:11.189
like outdoor climbing you've done um i think

01:18:11.189 --> 01:18:13.850
for a lot of people well i don't personally climb

01:18:13.850 --> 01:18:17.989
outside much because i just why is that um well

01:18:17.989 --> 01:18:21.819
it's like a lot of Effort, it's a lot more effort

01:18:21.819 --> 01:18:23.659
than like climbing inside. I don't feel like

01:18:23.659 --> 01:18:26.140
it's as efficient in terms of like getting better.

01:18:26.960 --> 01:18:30.899
Yeah, the approach. I also just don't like dealing

01:18:30.899 --> 01:18:34.399
with weather. So if it's like too hot or it's

01:18:34.399 --> 01:18:37.460
too cold, it's just, I would rather not deal

01:18:37.460 --> 01:18:41.720
with it. You had said about it's the effort and

01:18:41.720 --> 01:18:46.260
getting better. So do you equate having fun rock

01:18:46.260 --> 01:18:49.729
climbing with I have to climb this hard? Well,

01:18:49.729 --> 01:18:52.890
because my goal is more like I have some like

01:18:52.890 --> 01:18:57.430
competition goals. And so I want to work towards

01:18:57.430 --> 01:19:00.930
those. And I feel like in terms of training,

01:19:01.289 --> 01:19:06.130
it's like I could spend a whole day outside or

01:19:06.130 --> 01:19:10.829
I could spend that day training. And then I also

01:19:10.829 --> 01:19:13.470
get a chance to do like other non -climbing stuff

01:19:13.470 --> 01:19:17.310
too. Do you find climbing in a gym fun all the

01:19:17.310 --> 01:19:23.439
time? I really, I mean, it depends. I just, I

01:19:23.439 --> 01:19:25.920
don't feel like I love climbing as much as a

01:19:25.920 --> 01:19:28.619
lot of people do, which is weird to say with

01:19:28.619 --> 01:19:31.300
someone with a climbing podcast and someone who

01:19:31.300 --> 01:19:34.399
climbs all the time. But I mean, I find it like

01:19:34.399 --> 01:19:38.819
very frustrating. And I sometimes find it hard

01:19:38.819 --> 01:19:43.609
to like motivate myself to go and climb. I just

01:19:43.609 --> 01:19:45.829
don't feel like I can say that I love it as much

01:19:45.829 --> 01:19:49.390
as someone who is able to like motivate themselves

01:19:49.390 --> 01:19:52.810
to go to the gym like six days a week. Like I

01:19:52.810 --> 01:19:55.010
was kind of asking that because one of the things

01:19:55.010 --> 01:19:59.170
that I need to work on is my endurance and power

01:19:59.170 --> 01:20:02.329
endurance. So I look forward to say spending

01:20:02.329 --> 01:20:04.789
a lot of time in the red like in Kentucky where

01:20:04.789 --> 01:20:07.470
there's a lot of like overhung climbs because

01:20:07.470 --> 01:20:11.819
sure it's not. comp climbing and it's not climbing

01:20:11.819 --> 01:20:15.319
on plastic but the power and the endurance that

01:20:15.319 --> 01:20:19.840
i'm going to gain from climbing outside there

01:20:19.840 --> 01:20:23.039
and again i just have i have more fun personally

01:20:23.039 --> 01:20:28.779
climbing outdoors um because like yeah like i

01:20:28.779 --> 01:20:31.819
do like going to the gym and stuff but if i were

01:20:31.819 --> 01:20:33.699
to pick gym climbing outdoor climbing it's like

01:20:33.699 --> 01:20:36.420
hands down outdoor climbing Well, I guess for

01:20:36.420 --> 01:20:39.619
a lot of people, or at least from what I hear,

01:20:39.859 --> 01:20:42.760
they love an outdoor climb because of the way

01:20:42.760 --> 01:20:45.300
the rock looks or because they think it looks

01:20:45.300 --> 01:20:48.699
aesthetic or something like that. And I guess

01:20:48.699 --> 01:20:50.460
that's not really something you can go off of.

01:20:50.560 --> 01:20:53.279
So like what makes a great outdoor climb for

01:20:53.279 --> 01:20:55.739
you? Like, is it like rock texture? The feel

01:20:55.739 --> 01:21:00.979
of the rock. But even I do say that the people

01:21:00.979 --> 01:21:02.720
look at a climb like, wow, it's so aesthetic.

01:21:02.800 --> 01:21:04.479
I want to climb that line. I don't get that.

01:21:05.430 --> 01:21:09.890
I do get to see like this big red rock, which

01:21:09.890 --> 01:21:14.609
is in mountains. Like I live in South Washington,

01:21:14.670 --> 01:21:19.250
Ontario. It's fairly flat here. So to just get

01:21:19.250 --> 01:21:22.270
to like stand beside this epic, cause like I

01:21:22.270 --> 01:21:24.989
can see that you don't have to have much vision.

01:21:25.029 --> 01:21:27.270
You can have 1 % vision left and to tell there's

01:21:27.270 --> 01:21:29.550
a mountain in front of you, you can see that.

01:21:30.010 --> 01:21:32.670
So sure. I can't see the little details of it,

01:21:32.689 --> 01:21:35.329
but like everywhere I go and I, I'm just like,

01:21:35.329 --> 01:21:39.409
I want to go stand on top of that. And no idea

01:21:39.409 --> 01:21:42.609
how I'm going to get there, but I can see this

01:21:42.609 --> 01:21:47.930
big thing where like a gym climb, I, you know,

01:21:47.930 --> 01:21:50.750
it's all the same. It's just, I don't know. Like,

01:21:50.789 --> 01:21:54.430
so it's, it's not, so I do, the aesthetics do

01:21:54.430 --> 01:21:58.649
please me. And then the nature and colors of

01:21:58.649 --> 01:22:02.260
the leaves when they're changing. I just like

01:22:02.260 --> 01:22:03.859
being out in nature. I think that's what it is.

01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:08.640
It's quiet. The birds are chirping. I have to

01:22:08.640 --> 01:22:13.420
communicate with people. Gyms are loud. For the

01:22:13.420 --> 01:22:15.899
most part, especially if you go to some pretty

01:22:15.899 --> 01:22:18.520
epic climbs, no one's there because the average

01:22:18.520 --> 01:22:20.159
person doesn't want to put the effort in to get

01:22:20.159 --> 01:22:23.560
there. I see. Especially if you're multi -pitching,

01:22:23.600 --> 01:22:26.319
you're definitely not there with people. Anyone

01:22:26.319 --> 01:22:28.659
who's there is a pretty serious climber at some

01:22:28.659 --> 01:22:31.670
point. and you're not climbing beside someone

01:22:31.670 --> 01:22:36.449
you know it's just free um i think it was all

01:22:36.449 --> 01:22:38.949
just because i didn't do things like that and

01:22:38.949 --> 01:22:41.489
and i think i was saying when i first lost my

01:22:41.489 --> 01:22:43.229
sight i was like i'm not going to be able to

01:22:43.229 --> 01:22:46.069
do anything and now it's just like i'm doing

01:22:46.069 --> 01:22:47.930
shit i didn't even dream of doing beforehand

01:22:47.930 --> 01:22:50.789
yeah that's that makes sense that's really awesome

01:22:50.789 --> 01:22:53.189
i think just like the try hard aspect of like

01:22:53.189 --> 01:22:55.310
sometimes the approach you hate it in the moment

01:22:55.310 --> 01:22:59.380
yeah i do hate it yeah a lot Yeah, for some reason

01:22:59.380 --> 01:23:03.039
I enjoy the Sufferfest sometimes. Okay. Like

01:23:03.039 --> 01:23:05.359
in the moment, and it's always kind of training

01:23:05.359 --> 01:23:07.739
for me, like because I'm a dual sport athlete,

01:23:08.100 --> 01:23:10.539
for me, like if I'm like approaching and like

01:23:10.539 --> 01:23:13.979
going up these, you know, big hard things, carrying

01:23:13.979 --> 01:23:16.359
a heavy backpack, instead of like bitching and

01:23:16.359 --> 01:23:18.220
complaining about it, in my mind I'm just like,

01:23:18.340 --> 01:23:20.119
no, I'm making my legs stronger. I'm going to

01:23:20.119 --> 01:23:23.439
skate harder. And I try to make everything I'm

01:23:23.439 --> 01:23:27.420
doing training. It's kind of how I counter that.

01:23:28.460 --> 01:23:32.159
in my brain even i can't drive so i i run everywhere

01:23:32.159 --> 01:23:36.020
i go or i roller blade and you know there's times

01:23:36.020 --> 01:23:40.039
that i'm like sick of it but i just remind myself

01:23:40.039 --> 01:23:43.579
you know like i'm training right now i'm very

01:23:43.579 --> 01:23:45.560
fortunate that just to get from point a to point

01:23:45.560 --> 01:23:48.460
b i have to be training and i do want to like

01:23:48.460 --> 01:23:51.460
ask a little bit about the blind hockey um since

01:23:51.460 --> 01:23:53.460
i i don't know much about that do you feel like

01:23:53.460 --> 01:23:56.729
playing hockey helps with climbing much Yeah.

01:23:56.770 --> 01:24:00.550
In the sense of like, I might have to be like

01:24:00.550 --> 01:24:04.430
very physically fit for both. Like people ask

01:24:04.430 --> 01:24:07.670
like, how do you train for both? Um, and actually

01:24:07.670 --> 01:24:10.270
I mostly like train climbing. It seems minus

01:24:10.270 --> 01:24:15.789
like my cardio, like endurance that way. But

01:24:15.789 --> 01:24:18.569
you're like me making my like hands and wrists

01:24:18.569 --> 01:24:21.729
and stuff stronger. Just made my shot better.

01:24:22.390 --> 01:24:26.819
Um, the one downfall would be like, Being heavier

01:24:26.819 --> 01:24:30.000
and stronger in hockey is better because you

01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:32.760
don't get like pushed around as much, which,

01:24:32.800 --> 01:24:34.640
you know, there's this big thing in climbing

01:24:34.640 --> 01:24:36.960
with like eating disorders and stuff like that

01:24:36.960 --> 01:24:40.239
where I definitely do not have an eating disorder,

01:24:40.319 --> 01:24:41.500
but there was times I was thinking, oh, like

01:24:41.500 --> 01:24:43.460
I need to like quit hitting the gym so hard because

01:24:43.460 --> 01:24:47.819
I'm like going to weigh too much. Like for your

01:24:47.819 --> 01:24:50.500
legs, yeah. Yeah, because like when I get like

01:24:50.500 --> 01:24:53.199
skating a lot, like, you know, you hold a lot

01:24:53.199 --> 01:24:56.260
of weight in your legs. but also i've now been

01:24:56.260 --> 01:25:00.180
learning to like use my legs more um and again

01:25:00.180 --> 01:25:01.899
like we were talking about like me having these

01:25:01.899 --> 01:25:05.100
like high level callers and like coaches i remember

01:25:05.100 --> 01:25:07.800
like alana pointing out to me like you have like

01:25:07.800 --> 01:25:09.520
strong legs like use them like you're coming

01:25:09.520 --> 01:25:11.159
off the wall it's not because your legs are pumped

01:25:11.159 --> 01:25:13.899
so if you can get into like a good spot with

01:25:13.899 --> 01:25:16.699
your legs like sit on them and like until they're

01:25:16.699 --> 01:25:18.739
like exhausted like if you can hold yourself

01:25:18.739 --> 01:25:21.880
somewhere with your legs don't just you know

01:25:21.880 --> 01:25:23.560
throw a knee bar in and hang out there for two

01:25:23.560 --> 01:25:26.199
seconds because that's the move like stay there

01:25:26.199 --> 01:25:30.140
like rest your arms as long as you can um so

01:25:30.140 --> 01:25:33.779
I try to like use the legs to a benefit but I

01:25:33.779 --> 01:25:35.520
guess for the most part though like hockey doesn't

01:25:35.520 --> 01:25:40.300
necessarily improve my climbing I would say it

01:25:40.300 --> 01:25:45.060
helps with the approaches on things I have to

01:25:45.060 --> 01:25:48.529
be like pretty physically fit to play like high

01:25:48.529 --> 01:25:51.529
level hockey so it definitely goes the opposite

01:25:51.529 --> 01:25:54.949
way for not for the act of climbing but definitely

01:25:54.949 --> 01:25:58.109
getting to and from climbing and having to carry

01:25:58.109 --> 01:26:01.069
a bunch of heavy stuff yeah that's true all the

01:26:01.069 --> 01:26:04.289
stuff that i avoid yeah do you ever climb outside

01:26:04.289 --> 01:26:08.109
at all um i get convinced every once in a while

01:26:08.109 --> 01:26:10.630
like people want me to go just because i never

01:26:10.630 --> 01:26:13.510
go and then i go and i complain the whole time

01:26:13.510 --> 01:26:15.430
and they're like okay yeah this is why i don't

01:26:15.430 --> 01:26:18.699
go where are you going Like maybe it's really

01:26:18.699 --> 01:26:23.539
hot or. I mean, sometimes I'm, yeah, my body

01:26:23.539 --> 01:26:26.439
doesn't like adjust very well to temperatures.

01:26:26.560 --> 01:26:28.500
So, I mean, sometimes I'm too hot. Sometimes

01:26:28.500 --> 01:26:31.659
I'm too cold. But yeah, I've like, I used to

01:26:31.659 --> 01:26:34.960
live in Vegas for years. So I, I did some climbing

01:26:34.960 --> 01:26:38.720
there. I was in Washington climbing. So I've

01:26:38.720 --> 01:26:41.520
been to a few spots out there. And right now

01:26:41.520 --> 01:26:44.439
in San Diego, I've actually been out like once

01:26:44.439 --> 01:26:47.390
or twice, but yeah, a little bit out here. And

01:26:47.390 --> 01:26:49.930
you haven't found a spot you like, eh? No. I

01:26:49.930 --> 01:26:51.949
mean, it's also just like the movement outside.

01:26:52.409 --> 01:26:54.770
I'm more interested in like competition style

01:26:54.770 --> 01:26:59.270
moves. Okay. And you don't find that as much

01:26:59.270 --> 01:27:01.510
outside. I'm trying to think. I don't think you

01:27:01.510 --> 01:27:05.390
really like doing laches on natural rock. Yeah.

01:27:05.630 --> 01:27:08.829
Well, I'm actually really bad at laches. So not

01:27:08.829 --> 01:27:12.869
that, but you know, just other stuff. Maybe you'll

01:27:12.869 --> 01:27:15.930
have to try to find, I guess you probably wouldn't.

01:27:16.239 --> 01:27:18.199
like the whole like adventuring around to try

01:27:18.199 --> 01:27:21.939
to like find new developments yeah i mean it's

01:27:21.939 --> 01:27:24.760
not for everyone yeah and it's it's fine i don't

01:27:24.760 --> 01:27:27.180
need to climb outside outside people don't need

01:27:27.180 --> 01:27:29.979
to climb inside and i i guess that's where the

01:27:29.979 --> 01:27:31.960
name of your podcast comes in that's not real

01:27:31.960 --> 01:27:34.939
climbing because i'm sure it's especially like

01:27:34.939 --> 01:27:39.239
the old school you know trad daddy type people

01:27:39.239 --> 01:27:41.520
are just like sport climbing is not climbing

01:27:41.520 --> 01:27:45.170
and Indoor climbing definitely is not climbing.

01:27:45.510 --> 01:27:48.430
Yeah. I knew Alex Honnold, I heard in an interview

01:27:48.430 --> 01:27:52.329
talking about, he was saying that he could then,

01:27:52.470 --> 01:27:54.590
he's one of very few people that could say to

01:27:54.590 --> 01:27:56.289
someone like, well, like what you're doing is

01:27:56.289 --> 01:27:59.470
not real climbing. Real climbing is technically

01:27:59.470 --> 01:28:02.850
a climbing barefoot with no chalk. That is real

01:28:02.850 --> 01:28:04.529
climbing. He's like, where are we drawing this

01:28:04.529 --> 01:28:07.189
limit? And like, if you want to climb top rope

01:28:07.189 --> 01:28:11.069
inside at a gym, that is raw climbing. So, you

01:28:11.069 --> 01:28:14.119
know, get off your high horse. Yeah. Free soloing

01:28:14.119 --> 01:28:16.359
is the only real, it's the only real climbing.

01:28:17.479 --> 01:28:19.439
Yeah. I mean, it depends on where you want to

01:28:19.439 --> 01:28:22.500
look at it. Like, are you moving off the ground?

01:28:22.640 --> 01:28:27.220
Are you using your body? Are you climbing? I

01:28:27.220 --> 01:28:28.439
don't know. What's the definition of climbing?

01:28:28.739 --> 01:28:30.840
You know, I remember the first time I ice climbed,

01:28:30.960 --> 01:28:33.079
I'd posted a video of it or something and someone

01:28:33.079 --> 01:28:36.079
had commented because I was top roping and they

01:28:36.079 --> 01:28:39.720
were chirping me that I wasn't climbing. And

01:28:39.720 --> 01:28:40.939
I'd be like, what are you talking about? Like.

01:28:41.439 --> 01:28:43.979
Oh, okay. I'm sorry that I'm not lead climbing

01:28:43.979 --> 01:28:49.680
my first time blind ice climbing. My bad. And

01:28:49.680 --> 01:28:51.460
I realized like, you know, why am I getting upset

01:28:51.460 --> 01:28:55.319
at some idiot who is on his fucking keyboard

01:28:55.319 --> 01:28:59.520
typing away? Like I, I climbed, I don't care

01:28:59.520 --> 01:29:02.460
what you want to say. I did. And it was great.

01:29:02.659 --> 01:29:04.819
That's really cool. How'd you like ice climbing?

01:29:05.720 --> 01:29:07.319
Loved it. I thought it was going to be really

01:29:07.319 --> 01:29:11.329
hard. like not physically like yes it is but

01:29:11.329 --> 01:29:15.829
i thought it was going to be hard trying to pick

01:29:15.829 --> 01:29:19.390
in but complete opposite it was awesome i didn't

01:29:19.390 --> 01:29:21.850
have to try to find a little foot i want my foot

01:29:21.850 --> 01:29:25.649
to go here i just kick it there um true you don't

01:29:25.649 --> 01:29:28.909
feel like look for a foothold or a handhold you

01:29:28.909 --> 01:29:31.590
just like well i want my axe here and not every

01:29:31.590 --> 01:29:33.750
time but like if it didn't go in and it would

01:29:33.750 --> 01:29:36.100
like kind of like bounce i would just like drag

01:29:36.100 --> 01:29:38.319
the ice or the axle on the ice and i could kind

01:29:38.319 --> 01:29:40.260
of feel how it was shaped and be like oh i'm

01:29:40.260 --> 01:29:45.539
gonna put it there and the learning curve wasn't

01:29:45.539 --> 01:29:49.199
as hard as i thought it was going to be it uh

01:29:49.199 --> 01:29:52.500
because yeah no one gave me any tips on it and

01:29:52.500 --> 01:29:56.279
i plan to do a bunch of like ice climbing at

01:29:56.279 --> 01:30:00.340
some point also i feel the days i went i've been

01:30:00.340 --> 01:30:03.119
a few times now and it's what they call like

01:30:03.119 --> 01:30:06.909
hero ice so maybe i won't enjoy it as much hero

01:30:06.909 --> 01:30:11.689
ice meaning it was pretty i think the one day

01:30:11.689 --> 01:30:13.409
i was even climbing in a t -shirt it was like

01:30:13.409 --> 01:30:15.170
maybe like zero degrees like negative two or

01:30:15.170 --> 01:30:19.369
something so the ice is hard hard enough to hold

01:30:19.369 --> 01:30:22.449
you but it's pretty soft i guess if it's super

01:30:22.449 --> 01:30:24.850
hard it like chips away more it's maybe harder

01:30:24.850 --> 01:30:29.609
to get into um so maybe i just haven't experienced

01:30:29.609 --> 01:30:37.729
bad um environments yeah that makes sense but

01:30:37.729 --> 01:30:40.789
i'm still one of my goals in life is to i want

01:30:40.789 --> 01:30:43.130
to like do something where i need to like backcountry

01:30:43.130 --> 01:30:49.710
ski leading to some ice climb and then get on

01:30:49.710 --> 01:30:51.949
top of something to then ski off the top of it

01:30:51.949 --> 01:30:55.310
um and kind of put where again people might be

01:30:55.310 --> 01:30:58.069
like that's crazy or like not because like that

01:30:58.069 --> 01:31:00.350
sounds like a suffer fest like that would be

01:31:00.350 --> 01:31:03.520
cool Yeah, I think it would be a bit of a sufferfest,

01:31:03.539 --> 01:31:07.899
but it would be very enjoyable. Yeah, I just

01:31:07.899 --> 01:31:11.340
like doing things like that that aren't the norm

01:31:11.340 --> 01:31:15.460
for a blind person. I mean, in general, it would

01:31:15.460 --> 01:31:18.399
be cool to combine all of your interests. Yeah,

01:31:18.420 --> 01:31:20.279
I think I also just like pushing the envelope

01:31:20.279 --> 01:31:25.079
of what we are quote -unquote allowed or supposed

01:31:25.079 --> 01:31:29.640
to be doing. Because I guess I myself was very...

01:31:30.369 --> 01:31:32.609
down on myself thinking i'm not going to be able

01:31:32.609 --> 01:31:35.970
to do anything like a lot of that stem from you

01:31:35.970 --> 01:31:37.350
know like growing up i was like looked up to

01:31:37.350 --> 01:31:40.109
my father and stuff and i was like great now

01:31:40.109 --> 01:31:41.729
my kids are never going to look up to me i'm

01:31:41.729 --> 01:31:46.170
just going to be this blind guy who can't do

01:31:46.170 --> 01:31:48.329
anything and you know my kids are never going

01:31:48.329 --> 01:31:52.189
to think i'm a superhero or nothing where it's

01:31:52.189 --> 01:31:55.189
actually like the complete opposite um my son

01:31:55.189 --> 01:31:58.590
they did like in school they do a project i'm

01:31:58.590 --> 01:32:02.760
like a canadian or something and he he did it

01:32:02.760 --> 01:32:05.260
on me and like he found a photo of me on google

01:32:05.260 --> 01:32:08.319
because it was like a research party they'd like

01:32:08.319 --> 01:32:13.699
research some like canadian and he then like

01:32:13.699 --> 01:32:16.140
did me like the one photo i'm like bouldering

01:32:16.140 --> 01:32:19.100
and i'm like hanging upside down or something

01:32:19.100 --> 01:32:20.880
and he's like some of his friends were like well

01:32:20.880 --> 01:32:23.340
like your dad looks like spider -man and i was

01:32:23.340 --> 01:32:25.199
like oh like it's like here like i'm getting

01:32:25.199 --> 01:32:29.109
referred to as a superhero so i It was kind of

01:32:29.109 --> 01:32:32.069
neat to go from thinking I'm never going to be

01:32:32.069 --> 01:32:36.210
that. And I do things that sighted dads don't

01:32:36.210 --> 01:32:38.250
do. It's not that they're not physically capable

01:32:38.250 --> 01:32:42.909
of doing it. They just don't. So yeah, I get

01:32:42.909 --> 01:32:45.069
to do a lot of really cool shit. Yeah, absolutely.

01:32:45.689 --> 01:32:48.529
I think you must be stronger than most people

01:32:48.529 --> 01:32:50.930
out there doing a lot of cool stuff. Oh, even

01:32:50.930 --> 01:32:52.710
today at the gym, I was like moving this plate

01:32:52.710 --> 01:32:56.109
off of a thing. Yeah. And it's like. super jacked

01:32:56.109 --> 01:32:57.609
dude come over and he's like well how did you

01:32:57.609 --> 01:32:59.250
lift those off there he's like i have to shim

01:32:59.250 --> 01:33:02.909
them because he can't get his fingers behind

01:33:02.909 --> 01:33:05.909
the plates to like lift them off like just because

01:33:05.909 --> 01:33:09.609
they stack flat and you know i just like grabbed

01:33:09.609 --> 01:33:11.470
it and lifted it i didn't think twice about it

01:33:11.470 --> 01:33:15.010
but the fact that he came over to ask me i was

01:33:15.010 --> 01:33:17.369
like oh my i'm a rock climber i guess maybe my

01:33:17.369 --> 01:33:19.630
fingers are stronger yeah and he's like well

01:33:19.630 --> 01:33:22.170
he's like i just i saw you just grab it and he's

01:33:22.170 --> 01:33:24.439
just like I can't do that. And I'm like, this

01:33:24.439 --> 01:33:27.020
guy's just massive. I'm just thinking like, it's

01:33:27.020 --> 01:33:29.760
not that hard, but I guess he's not training

01:33:29.760 --> 01:33:32.760
his fingers at all. He's got to be able to figure

01:33:32.760 --> 01:33:35.180
out a way to do it. Well, he told me his beta.

01:33:35.260 --> 01:33:37.100
How can you do it? Yeah, exactly. He's like,

01:33:37.140 --> 01:33:39.699
I put little two pound plates in between each

01:33:39.699 --> 01:33:42.239
45. He's like, that way my fingers can get behind

01:33:42.239 --> 01:33:46.819
it. Okay. So he shared with me his how can I.

01:33:47.119 --> 01:33:49.739
Yeah. Even though I don't need to know it, but

01:33:49.739 --> 01:33:51.920
it's good to know. I'm happy we got to have that

01:33:51.920 --> 01:33:55.130
conversation. You mentioned blind hockey. I figured

01:33:55.130 --> 01:33:57.670
you haven't heard about that. So I brought with

01:33:57.670 --> 01:34:02.890
me a, I want to show a blind hockey puck. Oh,

01:34:02.949 --> 01:34:06.250
okay. So this is a traditional blind hockey puck.

01:34:06.310 --> 01:34:07.750
It's normally black. This is a training one.

01:34:07.810 --> 01:34:09.529
So that's why it's red. Oh, you might want to

01:34:09.529 --> 01:34:12.569
show it a little higher. Can you see it there?

01:34:12.770 --> 01:34:16.989
Yeah, that works. Okay. So then it's way bigger,

01:34:17.090 --> 01:34:19.810
but then they're annoying. So I keep a magnet

01:34:19.810 --> 01:34:25.569
on it if I'm not using it. because it make noise

01:34:25.569 --> 01:34:30.789
the dog thinks it's a toy so we need we track

01:34:30.789 --> 01:34:34.350
the puck by listening to it and even when i first

01:34:34.350 --> 01:34:36.850
started playing i you know if a puck was getting

01:34:36.850 --> 01:34:39.890
passed to me i would miss it because i hadn't

01:34:39.890 --> 01:34:42.829
learned how to listen to something traveling

01:34:42.829 --> 01:34:45.449
towards me to then figure out where it's going

01:34:45.449 --> 01:34:49.729
to end up and now like at very high speed you

01:34:49.729 --> 01:34:52.600
know I'll be clapping one -timers and shit if

01:34:52.600 --> 01:34:56.979
they're getting fed to me. It's really crazy,

01:34:57.079 --> 01:34:59.300
amazing to see what people are capable of doing

01:34:59.300 --> 01:35:02.319
if you practice enough. One little adaptation

01:35:02.319 --> 01:35:05.880
is the puck that's bigger. It does move a little

01:35:05.880 --> 01:35:09.260
slower, but it's the noise it makes. Just the

01:35:09.260 --> 01:35:11.539
way we communicate with each other on a much

01:35:11.539 --> 01:35:17.779
higher level. We're now capable of playing really

01:35:17.779 --> 01:35:21.619
high -level hockey. it was very shocking to me

01:35:21.619 --> 01:35:25.800
when I was able to they said my first instinct

01:35:25.800 --> 01:35:27.979
was this is going to be a joke because I'd only

01:35:27.979 --> 01:35:29.920
been blind for like maybe a month I hadn't learned

01:35:29.920 --> 01:35:33.260
because like basically when I when you look at

01:35:33.260 --> 01:35:35.199
something you're looking straight at it but now

01:35:35.199 --> 01:35:37.359
for me like when I'm looking straight at something

01:35:37.359 --> 01:35:40.520
that's when I don't see it so if I'm like looking

01:35:40.520 --> 01:35:42.939
my eyes are facing this way I'm actually like

01:35:42.939 --> 01:35:46.239
looking at you right now and I said like relearn

01:35:46.970 --> 01:35:49.210
To anything I'm looking at. I'm not actually

01:35:49.210 --> 01:35:51.350
like looking at. I'm looking at something else.

01:35:52.430 --> 01:35:57.810
So it was like. Adapting to that. And I was like

01:35:57.810 --> 01:36:01.670
very fortunate. Like one of. A big experience

01:36:01.670 --> 01:36:05.130
of mine was. I was climbing in Joshua Tree. With

01:36:05.130 --> 01:36:07.869
some friends. And every day afterwards. They

01:36:07.869 --> 01:36:09.909
would be playing hacky sack in the parking lot.

01:36:10.449 --> 01:36:12.590
Or at our campsite. And I'd always make up an

01:36:12.590 --> 01:36:17.510
excuse not to play. And. Basically, I was still

01:36:17.510 --> 01:36:19.090
drinking back then. I would basically go and

01:36:19.090 --> 01:36:21.189
get in the van. I would like drink my sorrows

01:36:21.189 --> 01:36:23.310
away. I was just like, oh, I'm such a piece of

01:36:23.310 --> 01:36:25.470
shit. I can't even hit a hacky sack anymore.

01:36:26.510 --> 01:36:30.630
And finally, my friend Rob one day called me

01:36:30.630 --> 01:36:31.729
out on it. He's like, I know you don't have to

01:36:31.729 --> 01:36:33.770
go do that. He's like, why every day do you make

01:36:33.770 --> 01:36:35.750
up this excuse? And I was like, Rob, I can't

01:36:35.750 --> 01:36:37.350
see the hacky sack. I'm not going to ruin your

01:36:37.350 --> 01:36:40.149
rally. He's like, dude, we're playing hacky sack.

01:36:40.329 --> 01:36:42.470
Like, we don't care. Basically, it's an excuse

01:36:42.470 --> 01:36:44.510
to stand around and shoot the shit and kick around

01:36:44.510 --> 01:36:49.140
a little bag. So then I came over and I started

01:36:49.140 --> 01:36:51.699
playing and I was like missing it and missing

01:36:51.699 --> 01:36:54.880
it, missing it. And then eventually like, and

01:36:54.880 --> 01:36:57.380
again, these guys were like being encouraging,

01:36:57.460 --> 01:36:59.920
like, oh, you almost got it that time and being

01:36:59.920 --> 01:37:02.680
very inclusive. And then all of a sudden I remember

01:37:02.680 --> 01:37:04.079
like I hit it the one time. And again, they're

01:37:04.079 --> 01:37:05.899
not like firing at me. They're like lobbing it,

01:37:05.960 --> 01:37:08.739
hoping that I can maybe hit it. And when I finally

01:37:08.739 --> 01:37:12.100
hit it. I remember I started crying. I broke

01:37:12.100 --> 01:37:14.140
down out of excitement. I was like, do you guys

01:37:14.140 --> 01:37:16.960
see that? I meant to do that. I remember being

01:37:16.960 --> 01:37:18.960
like, holy shit, I can do this. I just need to

01:37:18.960 --> 01:37:22.779
look here and the bag's coming here. And then

01:37:22.779 --> 01:37:26.140
it allowed me to have the confidence in myself

01:37:26.140 --> 01:37:28.000
that I can do these things. I just need to learn

01:37:28.000 --> 01:37:30.600
how to. I feel like they discredit a lot of the

01:37:30.600 --> 01:37:35.399
effort that I've put into being able to do certain

01:37:35.399 --> 01:37:39.479
things. And it's also, I think, why I spend a

01:37:39.479 --> 01:37:43.279
lot of time helping the blind youth. I volunteer

01:37:43.279 --> 01:37:45.159
with the blind youth as often as I can because

01:37:45.159 --> 01:37:49.859
basically I remember being a kid and most kids

01:37:49.859 --> 01:37:53.239
are assholes. And if there's a blind kid that

01:37:53.239 --> 01:37:55.039
wants to play hacky sack and he's missing it,

01:37:55.100 --> 01:37:57.779
he's probably going to get made fun of. Where

01:37:57.779 --> 01:38:00.640
the experience I had as a grown adult with other

01:38:00.640 --> 01:38:05.039
grown adults, they're like hyping me up. oh you

01:38:05.039 --> 01:38:07.199
almost got it and saying all these things and

01:38:07.199 --> 01:38:09.520
you know gently passing the hacky sack to me

01:38:09.520 --> 01:38:13.619
where the kid that is 10 years old that can't

01:38:13.619 --> 01:38:16.840
see it kids are probably firing at him and he's

01:38:16.840 --> 01:38:18.880
missing it and they're like see you know you

01:38:18.880 --> 01:38:21.180
can't do it and that kid's probably now going

01:38:21.180 --> 01:38:24.380
to like migrate into his basement and probably

01:38:24.380 --> 01:38:28.720
become you know dependent on some form of substance

01:38:28.720 --> 01:38:33.119
because his childhood traumas from being blind

01:38:33.119 --> 01:38:37.720
led him to having to drink or something and yeah

01:38:37.720 --> 01:38:40.180
and like the belief that you aren't able to do

01:38:40.180 --> 01:38:43.260
it yeah and it's like no one told me that but

01:38:43.260 --> 01:38:46.859
yet i was telling myself that um and i feel like

01:38:46.859 --> 01:38:51.479
little kids probably actually hear that and and

01:38:51.479 --> 01:38:55.020
it's awful so i try to you know even like little

01:38:55.020 --> 01:38:58.399
tips like squirting toothpaste in my mouth um

01:38:58.399 --> 01:39:02.760
you know i like to teach kids. I have little

01:39:02.760 --> 01:39:06.020
tricks on everything I do. So if I can share

01:39:06.020 --> 01:39:09.939
those with them, then that'll hopefully make

01:39:09.939 --> 01:39:13.039
their life go a lot smoother. It's like less

01:39:13.039 --> 01:39:16.220
barriers for them to they already have enough

01:39:16.220 --> 01:39:20.680
hurdles to jump over. If I can help get them

01:39:20.680 --> 01:39:24.319
there, then that's a good thing. And also just

01:39:24.319 --> 01:39:29.180
trying to grow blind sports in Canada. Adaptive

01:39:29.180 --> 01:39:33.250
sports are you know lacking a lot here like blind

01:39:33.250 --> 01:39:37.729
hockey as a charity does a really great job um

01:39:37.729 --> 01:39:41.229
incorporating you know blind youth like at the

01:39:41.229 --> 01:39:43.130
beginning i was i got a little emotional talking

01:39:43.130 --> 01:39:45.869
about my friend mark who he lost his sight he

01:39:45.869 --> 01:39:47.510
has the same disease as me he was like on his

01:39:47.510 --> 01:39:51.210
way to making it into like the nhl loses sight

01:39:51.210 --> 01:39:55.149
at 17 and his life is just like stripped from

01:39:55.149 --> 01:39:59.109
him and then he learned about blind hockey And

01:39:59.109 --> 01:40:00.649
it was like mostly adults. And he got asking

01:40:00.649 --> 01:40:03.149
if kids play. I'm like, no, there's no kid programs.

01:40:03.369 --> 01:40:05.010
And he was like, wow, like my whole life was

01:40:05.010 --> 01:40:07.989
spent playing hockey. All my best friends I got

01:40:07.989 --> 01:40:10.810
from hockey. And it can be with any sport, but

01:40:10.810 --> 01:40:14.050
blind kids don't have these sports to play. So

01:40:14.050 --> 01:40:16.710
he rollerbladed across Canada to try to raise

01:40:16.710 --> 01:40:19.729
money and awareness for blind hockey. And now,

01:40:19.869 --> 01:40:22.050
like two weeks from now, I'm helping run a multi

01:40:22.050 --> 01:40:23.789
-sport camp in Toronto. There's going to be 50

01:40:23.789 --> 01:40:25.930
kids there and they're going to get the rock

01:40:25.930 --> 01:40:28.340
climb. Oh, that'll be great. And play four other

01:40:28.340 --> 01:40:30.939
sports. You know, I get to take kids climbing,

01:40:31.039 --> 01:40:33.239
like, quite, you know, a few times a year type

01:40:33.239 --> 01:40:36.199
of thing. And they, not just them, even their

01:40:36.199 --> 01:40:38.619
parents get to see, like, you know, Mark and

01:40:38.619 --> 01:40:41.840
I and a couple other guys who, like, live normal

01:40:41.840 --> 01:40:44.539
lives and were, like, confident growing adults.

01:40:44.699 --> 01:40:48.699
And it gives them faith that their kid can also

01:40:48.699 --> 01:40:53.039
be something and hold their head high. And you,

01:40:53.060 --> 01:40:55.470
like, take them outside as well? i've yet to

01:40:55.470 --> 01:40:58.949
take any kids outdoor climbing um that will happen

01:40:58.949 --> 01:41:02.829
eventually though i'm uh i'm in the works of

01:41:02.829 --> 01:41:06.369
like trying to get some things going like i can

01:41:06.369 --> 01:41:08.789
only be in so many places at once and also like

01:41:08.789 --> 01:41:12.189
i can't call so like i'll like climb on routes

01:41:12.189 --> 01:41:18.050
beside kids which is maybe harder outside and

01:41:18.050 --> 01:41:22.039
mostly like where we go in toronto And the climbs

01:41:22.039 --> 01:41:24.159
are like the hardest ones, like a five, 10. So

01:41:24.159 --> 01:41:27.300
I'll just like, I don't clip in the guys that

01:41:27.300 --> 01:41:28.939
run it. Don't really say anything to me. And

01:41:28.939 --> 01:41:30.939
I just, the kids having a hard time. I was like,

01:41:30.979 --> 01:41:34.079
screw you up beside them and, you know, give

01:41:34.079 --> 01:41:38.079
them some motivation or I'll like tap on the

01:41:38.079 --> 01:41:39.779
holds or something. So they can like hear where

01:41:39.779 --> 01:41:44.079
to move their hand to. Some of them now are getting

01:41:44.079 --> 01:41:46.159
strong enough that they can for sure climb outside.

01:41:48.510 --> 01:41:50.649
and hopefully this summer we can make that happen

01:41:50.649 --> 01:41:53.409
and i do want to get into a couple of like the

01:41:53.409 --> 01:41:55.970
audience submitted questions um through like

01:41:55.970 --> 01:41:59.970
discord or instagram um so the first one how

01:41:59.970 --> 01:42:02.090
long does it take to get in sync with your caller

01:42:02.090 --> 01:42:06.789
depending who they are i suppose um again like

01:42:06.789 --> 01:42:09.329
when i have like a high like i'll keep referencing

01:42:09.329 --> 01:42:13.369
like jazz and atlanta when they say something

01:42:13.369 --> 01:42:15.850
like i believe what they're saying to be true

01:42:15.850 --> 01:42:18.529
i mean in saying that there's times that I will

01:42:18.529 --> 01:42:20.109
go to do something and it'd be like, I can't

01:42:20.109 --> 01:42:24.050
do that. Um, cause I think that they forget that

01:42:24.050 --> 01:42:27.890
I'm not as strong as they are. Okay. Um, so like,

01:42:27.890 --> 01:42:29.090
there's something like, you know, grab that jug

01:42:29.090 --> 01:42:31.189
there. I'm just like, this isn't a jug. And like,

01:42:31.250 --> 01:42:38.050
I can't hold this. Um, I need new beta. Um, so

01:42:38.050 --> 01:42:41.050
it's not too bad as long as I just believe in

01:42:41.050 --> 01:42:42.630
truck. It's yeah. It's a trust thing. As long

01:42:42.630 --> 01:42:44.829
as I'm trusting them. Cause there is times I'll

01:42:44.829 --> 01:42:46.779
be like, all right, now do this. And it's like,

01:42:46.800 --> 01:42:48.899
oh, that doesn't feel right, but like, okay.

01:42:49.460 --> 01:42:51.600
And then I'll do it. And it's like, holy shit,

01:42:51.699 --> 01:42:57.939
like, why was I doubting you? So yeah, it is

01:42:57.939 --> 01:43:00.199
a bit of a learning curve, but not too long.

01:43:00.960 --> 01:43:07.140
Okay. Next question about speed climbing. Since

01:43:07.140 --> 01:43:10.380
speed climbing is a standardized route, would

01:43:10.380 --> 01:43:14.239
it work well for blind people? It would. Me and

01:43:14.239 --> 01:43:17.180
Diego, he's one of the American blind climbers.

01:43:17.359 --> 01:43:20.819
We want to challenge each other to a speed climbing

01:43:20.819 --> 01:43:25.619
race. Have you done it? I've only, I have speed

01:43:25.619 --> 01:43:28.140
climbed. I wouldn't, I don't even want to call

01:43:28.140 --> 01:43:30.239
it that because I climbed the speed climbing

01:43:30.239 --> 01:43:33.619
route. Right. It was not very speedy. No. Same

01:43:33.619 --> 01:43:35.640
for me. Yeah. But it could be, because like you

01:43:35.640 --> 01:43:37.680
said, like it's the same thing. And if I repeated

01:43:37.680 --> 01:43:43.970
it, I would learn it like fairly quickly. I'm

01:43:43.970 --> 01:43:46.829
not near a speed climbing. There's only a few

01:43:46.829 --> 01:43:50.609
walls in Canada. But yeah, I totally would love

01:43:50.609 --> 01:43:54.050
to do that. And any other blind people out there

01:43:54.050 --> 01:43:55.529
in other countries that want to challenge me

01:43:55.529 --> 01:43:58.529
to a speed climbing off. Because I thought it'd

01:43:58.529 --> 01:44:00.229
be neat to do that at one of the World Cups.

01:44:01.109 --> 01:44:03.149
And Diego and I talked about doing it in Salt

01:44:03.149 --> 01:44:06.590
Lake City when they had the speed climbing. They

01:44:06.590 --> 01:44:09.069
were like, oh, let's race each other just for

01:44:09.069 --> 01:44:11.949
fun. For one, just to show people like, you know,

01:44:11.949 --> 01:44:13.270
just because you're blind doesn't mean you can't

01:44:13.270 --> 01:44:15.829
speed climb. Obviously, I'm going to do it in

01:44:15.829 --> 01:44:19.289
like 10 minutes. Yeah. Do you remember your time?

01:44:19.609 --> 01:44:22.869
No, I don't think I even time myself. I was in

01:44:22.869 --> 01:44:24.449
like Switzerland or Austria or something like

01:44:24.449 --> 01:44:26.210
that. And my friend was like, oh, it was a speed

01:44:26.210 --> 01:44:28.710
climbing route there. So I just wanted to like

01:44:28.710 --> 01:44:33.890
touch the holds. They were harder. They weren't

01:44:33.890 --> 01:44:35.710
as positive as I was expecting. I thought it

01:44:35.710 --> 01:44:38.600
was just like a jug hold. yeah no i think it's

01:44:38.600 --> 01:44:42.439
maybe like a i don't know if you graded it as

01:44:42.439 --> 01:44:44.659
like a top rope route maybe like a five five

01:44:44.659 --> 01:44:48.119
ten i think i heard that it's like a 10 10 c

01:44:48.119 --> 01:44:51.840
or something um which and i don't even know who

01:44:51.840 --> 01:44:53.560
told me that it could be made up but it's definitely

01:44:53.560 --> 01:44:56.939
i also feel like i heard that so yeah maybe it

01:44:56.939 --> 01:45:00.000
definitely is not you know just a 5 -8 jug haul

01:45:00.000 --> 01:45:02.939
the way they fly up that wall i was like oh this

01:45:02.939 --> 01:45:06.770
clearly must be they're just like nope it uh

01:45:06.770 --> 01:45:12.090
yeah it definitely was not fast but so i've competed

01:45:12.090 --> 01:45:14.609
a few times in seca block which is like the deep

01:45:14.609 --> 01:45:17.529
water soloing yeah cool and they time us there

01:45:17.529 --> 01:45:20.409
and it's crazy to see so the first time i climb

01:45:20.409 --> 01:45:21.930
the route because i don't do it with a collar

01:45:21.930 --> 01:45:24.430
so i'll climb it like there was a lot of times

01:45:24.430 --> 01:45:26.689
i'll grab a hole and like feel around for where

01:45:26.689 --> 01:45:29.430
the best part is or like oh i sequenced that

01:45:29.430 --> 01:45:32.329
wrong you know now i gotta like match or switch

01:45:32.329 --> 01:45:34.840
or something And you know, like the first time

01:45:34.840 --> 01:45:36.899
I'll do it, it'll take me like two minutes and

01:45:36.899 --> 01:45:41.199
then it'll be a minute 30. Then it'll be 50 seconds,

01:45:41.359 --> 01:45:44.699
then 30 seconds type of thing. Like I shave like

01:45:44.699 --> 01:45:48.180
so much time off every time just because the

01:45:48.180 --> 01:45:51.199
first, I'm not going to just dino and like cut

01:45:51.199 --> 01:45:52.880
feet and start throwing the shit when I have

01:45:52.880 --> 01:45:56.859
no idea what it is. But every time I climb it,

01:45:56.960 --> 01:46:00.100
I go way faster. So it would do, it would be

01:46:00.100 --> 01:46:03.180
the same for the speed climbing. But I wouldn't

01:46:03.180 --> 01:46:05.159
even come close to what the men and women do

01:46:05.159 --> 01:46:09.500
internationally. Well, maybe eventually if you

01:46:09.500 --> 01:46:13.420
did it so many times. I mean, I don't know. The

01:46:13.420 --> 01:46:15.640
speeds that they're putting up these days blow

01:46:15.640 --> 01:46:18.460
my mind. Yeah, okay, that's true. I mean, I guess

01:46:18.460 --> 01:46:21.239
I got to quit saying I can't. How can I get to

01:46:21.239 --> 01:46:24.159
their speed? Well, because I've seen videos.

01:46:24.380 --> 01:46:29.279
I think I saw Sam Watson doing blind speed climbing

01:46:29.279 --> 01:46:33.130
as an exercise. uh because i mean i guess eventually

01:46:33.130 --> 01:46:35.010
you do learn it so well that you should just

01:46:35.010 --> 01:46:38.550
kind of know without being able to see from what

01:46:38.550 --> 01:46:40.409
i understand like they're not looking at their

01:46:40.409 --> 01:46:41.850
feet and something like that like they're it's

01:46:41.850 --> 01:46:44.189
all muscle memory right so yeah all muscle memory

01:46:44.189 --> 01:46:47.489
and uh that's interesting i did not know that

01:46:47.489 --> 01:46:52.890
that he or other climbers uh climbed blindfolded

01:46:52.890 --> 01:46:55.810
for speed but but it makes sense that is an exercise

01:46:55.810 --> 01:46:59.520
yeah I've even seen it for like bouldering. I

01:46:59.520 --> 01:47:02.140
think not as much. I think I saw like one time

01:47:02.140 --> 01:47:05.640
in a gym, the comp kids were doing like a blindfolded

01:47:05.640 --> 01:47:11.579
exercise. I don't know what it helps with bouldering

01:47:11.579 --> 01:47:14.779
as much. I don't know what the exercise is for.

01:47:14.840 --> 01:47:19.619
Maybe just like trust or I don't know, power

01:47:19.619 --> 01:47:21.800
endurance, like moving slower. I'm not sure.

01:47:21.979 --> 01:47:25.060
Yeah, lock off strength. Yeah. I've definitely

01:47:25.060 --> 01:47:27.319
heard of that happening as well. I've even actually,

01:47:27.359 --> 01:47:29.939
I've been at the gym where Atlanta and I were

01:47:29.939 --> 01:47:33.420
at the gym and then people came over and they

01:47:33.420 --> 01:47:36.239
thought that we were like both pro climbers.

01:47:36.239 --> 01:47:38.619
And we were, that's how a pro climber trains

01:47:38.619 --> 01:47:42.300
is you, you do their beta or something. So I

01:47:42.300 --> 01:47:44.220
came down and I could hear her like talking to

01:47:44.220 --> 01:47:46.460
someone through the mic. And then she's like,

01:47:46.539 --> 01:47:48.420
no, like he's blind. And I'm like telling him

01:47:48.420 --> 01:47:51.090
like, two ladies were like oh like we just thought

01:47:51.090 --> 01:47:53.229
that's how you like became so good is that you

01:47:53.229 --> 01:47:56.470
guys called for each other and that way you had

01:47:56.470 --> 01:47:58.569
to like move slower and like wait for them to

01:47:58.569 --> 01:48:00.229
tell you this you try this different technique

01:48:00.229 --> 01:48:03.170
and she's like no like you just can't see what

01:48:03.170 --> 01:48:08.909
he's doing um but yeah they could the blind kids

01:48:08.909 --> 01:48:11.409
are not blankets other people i've seen doing

01:48:11.409 --> 01:48:13.630
it for kids and stuff and i think it's just building

01:48:13.630 --> 01:48:18.310
endurance because you have to wait You know,

01:48:18.310 --> 01:48:20.189
so I think there's some training would be like

01:48:20.189 --> 01:48:22.329
climbing like every hole is like wait three seconds

01:48:22.329 --> 01:48:25.170
hovering over it before you can grab it. So you're

01:48:25.170 --> 01:48:30.989
basically doing something similar to that. So

01:48:30.989 --> 01:48:32.989
yeah, it's pretty fun though. You should try

01:48:32.989 --> 01:48:35.989
blindfold climbing sometime. I would try it out

01:48:35.989 --> 01:48:37.949
on rope maybe. I would be interested in that.

01:48:38.710 --> 01:48:40.489
Yeah, bouldering is definitely, like I said,

01:48:40.489 --> 01:48:44.909
sketchier. I helped Justin Salas run like a blind

01:48:44.909 --> 01:48:47.479
climbing clinic. in salt lake city at the bouldering

01:48:47.479 --> 01:48:51.739
project and it was funny watching people having

01:48:51.739 --> 01:48:54.260
their their friends call for them and they'd

01:48:54.260 --> 01:48:57.779
be like a six inches or a foot off the pad and

01:48:57.779 --> 01:48:59.899
they're like okay now like let go like you can't

01:48:59.899 --> 01:49:02.420
down climb anymore and they'd be like ah and

01:49:02.420 --> 01:49:04.560
then they'd jump and they like they would land

01:49:04.560 --> 01:49:07.159
and they're like holy like they were scared even

01:49:07.159 --> 01:49:09.500
though their friends telling them like dude you're

01:49:09.500 --> 01:49:12.779
you're six inches from the mat just let go but

01:49:12.779 --> 01:49:15.020
they have no concept of where you are in space

01:49:15.879 --> 01:49:18.460
So it was kind of funny and neat getting to experience

01:49:18.460 --> 01:49:23.060
other people experiencing what we kind of go

01:49:23.060 --> 01:49:25.819
through all the time. Yeah, it's impressive for

01:49:25.819 --> 01:49:29.020
sure. But I think that brings me into the last

01:49:29.020 --> 01:49:34.020
question. Someone asked thoughts on new disciplines

01:49:34.020 --> 01:49:38.159
for para climbing. Some para climbers train in

01:49:38.159 --> 01:49:40.180
only boulder gyms because they're more accessible

01:49:40.180 --> 01:49:44.539
and there's so many more of them. Do you think

01:49:44.539 --> 01:49:46.479
that there would be like more paraclimbers who

01:49:46.479 --> 01:49:49.420
would want to compete in bouldering? No, because

01:49:49.420 --> 01:49:53.260
yes and no. The biggest thing is, is like the

01:49:53.260 --> 01:49:58.739
injury factor. So for me, I can't see where the

01:49:58.739 --> 01:50:01.220
mat is. I mean, I would still compete in bouldering.

01:50:01.899 --> 01:50:03.840
And I really hope that they can do that sometime.

01:50:04.720 --> 01:50:07.000
There actually was a bouldering comp last year

01:50:07.000 --> 01:50:12.340
in Colorado for paraclimbers. And I had my surgery,

01:50:12.420 --> 01:50:16.680
so I couldn't attend it. But for other climbers

01:50:16.680 --> 01:50:19.319
that say have spina bifida or something like

01:50:19.319 --> 01:50:22.640
that, and you now are coming off and you can't

01:50:22.640 --> 01:50:26.840
control your legs. We kind of experimented with

01:50:26.840 --> 01:50:30.420
this with Sequel Block. Some climbers that are

01:50:30.420 --> 01:50:34.859
now falling 60 feet, they don't have the leg

01:50:34.859 --> 01:50:37.189
strength to keep their legs from like... going

01:50:37.189 --> 01:50:39.670
like this and if you hit the water you're doing

01:50:39.670 --> 01:50:41.689
the splits it's gonna like rip your leg out of

01:50:41.689 --> 01:50:44.829
the socket oh geez um or someone who has a spinal

01:50:44.829 --> 01:50:47.189
cord injury and their back is safe fused together

01:50:47.189 --> 01:50:51.789
you know the impact of hitting a mat hard could

01:50:51.789 --> 01:50:58.329
dislodge that or so i mean i know like lag amputees

01:50:58.329 --> 01:51:03.529
hand amputees pretty well climb in boulder but

01:51:03.529 --> 01:51:06.390
even then if you're I wouldn't say anything for

01:51:06.390 --> 01:51:08.369
a hand amputee, but if you're a lag amputee and,

01:51:08.369 --> 01:51:11.630
you know, hit the mat and, you know, your prosthetic

01:51:11.630 --> 01:51:15.630
lands weird or hard, or even if you say climb

01:51:15.630 --> 01:51:17.430
without a prosthetic, when you land now on one

01:51:17.430 --> 01:51:20.409
lag, you don't have to absorb all that shock

01:51:20.409 --> 01:51:24.470
with one knee. So it's just like, I've seen some

01:51:24.470 --> 01:51:27.729
gyms put up top ropes on their boulders just

01:51:27.729 --> 01:51:31.850
to make it more inclusive. But then that's kind

01:51:31.850 --> 01:51:35.380
of sometimes in the way. So it'd be tough. It

01:51:35.380 --> 01:51:38.819
kind of have to be sign a waiver and for sure.

01:51:39.260 --> 01:51:41.619
Cause a lot of us want to do it. Um, cause you

01:51:41.619 --> 01:51:45.340
know, bouldering is, there's way different climbs

01:51:45.340 --> 01:51:50.199
like then some rope climbs. So anyway, I think

01:51:50.199 --> 01:51:51.479
a lot of us just like pushing the envelope and

01:51:51.479 --> 01:51:55.779
be like, you know, I can do this. Um, and this

01:51:55.779 --> 01:51:58.800
is just how I, how I do it differently and kind

01:51:58.800 --> 01:52:01.699
of want to show off their abilities. Like my

01:52:01.699 --> 01:52:04.359
buddy Justin, like he climbs. you know, double

01:52:04.359 --> 01:52:09.500
-digit V -boulders, like, quite frequently. You

01:52:09.500 --> 01:52:12.560
know, there's other lag amputees I have friends

01:52:12.560 --> 01:52:14.619
that, you know, climb double -digit V -grade.

01:52:15.079 --> 01:52:17.680
Wow, yeah. With, you know, like, missing a lag.

01:52:18.680 --> 01:52:22.659
Wow. Man, I suck. They've just put the effort

01:52:22.659 --> 01:52:25.180
in. Like, it's not that, like, when I say it,

01:52:25.199 --> 01:52:26.699
it's not like, oh, that guy's just a naturally

01:52:26.699 --> 01:52:29.119
talented athlete or he's naturally gifted at

01:52:29.119 --> 01:52:31.239
climbing. No, like, that man's put in the work.

01:52:31.739 --> 01:52:34.939
Yeah. I'm saying I did not put in the work. Yeah.

01:52:35.220 --> 01:52:37.060
It's, it's tough to get motivated to go to the

01:52:37.060 --> 01:52:39.260
gym and like your body's sore all the time and,

01:52:39.279 --> 01:52:42.760
and stuff like that. So, and a lot of like para

01:52:42.760 --> 01:52:45.359
athletes have to work, I'm going to say twice

01:52:45.359 --> 01:52:50.500
as hard, but put a lot more effort in to, and

01:52:50.500 --> 01:52:53.180
maybe not for everyone, but like, I'm sure a

01:52:53.180 --> 01:52:55.359
lot of able -bodied people have a lot of struggles

01:52:55.359 --> 01:52:57.279
as well. Like say for me, it's getting to and

01:52:57.279 --> 01:52:59.699
from the gym is hard. Not everyone has a car.

01:52:59.819 --> 01:53:02.000
So like someone else has to also take a bus or

01:53:02.000 --> 01:53:05.659
walk there. So I'm not saying that other people

01:53:05.659 --> 01:53:08.500
don't equally have the same problem sometimes,

01:53:08.640 --> 01:53:12.979
but on average, a paraclimber has to experience

01:53:12.979 --> 01:53:17.619
a lot more barriers than someone else. So I think

01:53:17.619 --> 01:53:19.220
that's why we want to show like we are capable

01:53:19.220 --> 01:53:22.199
of doing these things, you know, give us the

01:53:22.199 --> 01:53:25.180
time. But also because there's so few of us,

01:53:25.239 --> 01:53:29.270
it's very expensive for... a gym to shut down

01:53:29.270 --> 01:53:32.130
and hold up a comp if there's only going to be

01:53:32.130 --> 01:53:35.069
six people show up type of thing but you need

01:53:35.069 --> 01:53:39.189
to start somewhere because otherwise how's anyone

01:53:39.189 --> 01:53:41.529
like jazz and i were just skiing the other day

01:53:41.529 --> 01:53:45.529
and we saw this man on a a sit ski he's on the

01:53:45.529 --> 01:53:47.909
chairlift with me so i was like hey man do you

01:53:47.909 --> 01:53:50.609
do rock climb he's like no i can't rock climb

01:53:50.609 --> 01:53:52.689
and again like when people say the whole like

01:53:52.689 --> 01:53:57.420
i can't things i always have to fire back at

01:53:57.420 --> 01:54:01.579
them. And he gave me a few excuses as to why

01:54:01.579 --> 01:54:04.020
he can't do it. And eventually he was like, all

01:54:04.020 --> 01:54:06.119
right, yeah, you're right. Like, I just haven't

01:54:06.119 --> 01:54:10.159
tried it yet. And I hope he does, but he had

01:54:10.159 --> 01:54:11.539
never heard of it. And I was like, well, it's

01:54:11.539 --> 01:54:14.079
because, you know, we only had our first nationals

01:54:14.079 --> 01:54:17.020
two weeks ago. And this guy lives in Montreal

01:54:17.020 --> 01:54:19.279
where there's a pretty big pair climbing scene.

01:54:19.859 --> 01:54:22.739
But by that there's like eight people, but like,

01:54:22.739 --> 01:54:25.449
that's a big scene. Like. You know, you go to

01:54:25.449 --> 01:54:31.050
any other big city, there's not many. But if

01:54:31.050 --> 01:54:33.989
there was more comps and more adaptive programs

01:54:33.989 --> 01:54:37.350
and stuff like that, more people would get involved.

01:54:37.729 --> 01:54:41.170
It would continue to grow. If you go to the States

01:54:41.170 --> 01:54:44.090
or other countries, you know, like the U .S.

01:54:44.090 --> 01:54:46.350
Nationals, I didn't see a number this past weekend,

01:54:46.390 --> 01:54:48.489
but I think last year there was 250 athletes

01:54:48.489 --> 01:54:51.189
there. And you compare that to Canada where there's,

01:54:51.189 --> 01:54:57.600
I think last year nine of us competed. But their

01:54:57.600 --> 01:54:59.300
first nationals, I think they had 10 people.

01:55:00.079 --> 01:55:03.520
Yeah, it just takes time. Yeah, our first nationals,

01:55:03.520 --> 01:55:07.119
we had 30. But again, a gym has to be willing

01:55:07.119 --> 01:55:12.159
to shut down, pay its root setters to set this

01:55:12.159 --> 01:55:15.659
comp for a week. It's a big, there's no money

01:55:15.659 --> 01:55:19.319
in it. So someone has to kind of take the loss.

01:55:21.170 --> 01:55:24.010
to build the space for us. So I think we're all

01:55:24.010 --> 01:55:27.010
very appreciative of the people that do this

01:55:27.010 --> 01:55:29.569
for us. Yeah. Well, I hope this at least helps

01:55:29.569 --> 01:55:32.609
get the word out there. Yeah. I hope so as well.

01:55:32.729 --> 01:55:36.270
Well, I think that is all the questions I had

01:55:36.270 --> 01:55:39.029
for today. Um, is there any like last minute

01:55:39.029 --> 01:55:41.670
words of wisdom you want to get out there? Words

01:55:41.670 --> 01:55:45.529
of wisdom. Um, yeah, don't say I can't say how

01:55:45.529 --> 01:55:51.329
can I, um, no, and I guess, uh, I don't know,

01:55:51.329 --> 01:55:56.210
be inclusive to people with disabilities. And

01:55:56.210 --> 01:55:59.170
as in don't judge people in the sense of, you

01:55:59.170 --> 01:56:01.130
know, like when someone starts climbing for the

01:56:01.130 --> 01:56:03.930
first time, they're not going to be good at it.

01:56:04.109 --> 01:56:07.289
But if you give them an opportunity to learn,

01:56:07.409 --> 01:56:09.529
they're also going to become very good at it.

01:56:10.369 --> 01:56:12.829
I think a lot of people might see a pair climber

01:56:12.829 --> 01:56:14.569
climb for the first time and be like, oh, like

01:56:14.569 --> 01:56:15.970
I don't want to climb with that person because

01:56:15.970 --> 01:56:18.949
they're not at my level. But if everyone's told

01:56:18.949 --> 01:56:20.670
that they're never going to get to your level.

01:56:21.850 --> 01:56:24.909
So, and a lot of people don't have that intrinsic

01:56:24.909 --> 01:56:26.909
motivation, especially that's kind of why I was

01:56:26.909 --> 01:56:29.130
asking, how does the average person get into

01:56:29.130 --> 01:56:33.949
rock climbing and stay at it? Because if you

01:56:33.949 --> 01:56:37.390
go to this adaptive meetup, you see a few other

01:56:37.390 --> 01:56:39.090
adaptive climbers there, but they're already

01:56:39.090 --> 01:56:41.590
like crushing it. You're just like, well, I can't

01:56:41.590 --> 01:56:43.789
do that. But they're kind of discrediting and

01:56:43.789 --> 01:56:45.630
forgetting the fact that this person also started

01:56:45.630 --> 01:56:48.899
here. And it takes time to build up to here,

01:56:49.020 --> 01:56:53.479
but you need climbing partners to allow you to

01:56:53.479 --> 01:56:57.000
build that. So yeah, I just, I hope that people

01:56:57.000 --> 01:56:59.739
that are listening to this can, can learn to

01:56:59.739 --> 01:57:02.000
incorporate or invite people out to the climbing

01:57:02.000 --> 01:57:04.899
meetups. So like they're into their gym and give

01:57:04.899 --> 01:57:07.800
them a catch and let them learn how to belay.

01:57:08.479 --> 01:57:11.520
And eventually you can build that partnership

01:57:11.520 --> 01:57:15.859
and, you know, you'll have another climbing partner.

01:57:16.579 --> 01:57:19.739
Awesome. Okay, great words to end on. Well, thanks

01:57:19.739 --> 01:57:22.260
for having me on here. Yeah, yeah. Thank you

01:57:22.260 --> 01:57:24.239
so much for joining me. Do you want to let people

01:57:24.239 --> 01:57:25.699
know where they can find you if they want to

01:57:25.699 --> 01:57:29.079
hear more about your story? Yeah, my handle on

01:57:29.079 --> 01:57:32.340
Instagram and other platforms is The Blind Explorer.

01:57:32.960 --> 01:57:36.420
Yeah, I will add that to the description. Awesome.

01:57:36.579 --> 01:57:38.159
Thank you again. And it was amazing to talk to

01:57:38.159 --> 01:57:41.800
you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for making

01:57:41.800 --> 01:57:44.140
it to the end of the podcast. Don't forget to

01:57:44.140 --> 01:57:46.359
like and subscribe if you enjoyed. Otherwise,

01:57:46.479 --> 01:57:49.779
you are a super big climber. If you're listening

01:57:49.779 --> 01:57:52.340
on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you

01:57:52.340 --> 01:57:55.300
rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion

01:57:55.300 --> 01:57:58.439
on the free competition climbing discord linked

01:57:58.439 --> 01:58:00.920
in the description. Thanks again for listening.