WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.680
for me education doesn't need to be for free

00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:06.919
a route setter he makes his living out of it

00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:09.619
it's a profession so if you follow a professional

00:00:09.619 --> 00:00:12.000
education you can pay for it it doesn't need

00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:16.899
to be a hyper expensive neither our own events

00:00:16.899 --> 00:00:19.120
the world championship and then the world cups

00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:22.660
how do you give them value the easy answer is

00:00:22.660 --> 00:00:26.100
the prize money There was some controversy about

00:00:26.100 --> 00:00:29.839
it, clearly. Now, this year, the NEOM games aren't

00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:32.920
on the schedule anymore. At World Cup level,

00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:35.840
there has been tests done. I think 300 tests

00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:38.520
last year. There has been talks with specific

00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:41.320
athletes that are getting into the danger zone,

00:00:41.380 --> 00:00:45.020
but not there yet. Welcome to another episode

00:00:45.020 --> 00:00:47.979
of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast. I'm

00:00:47.979 --> 00:00:49.700
your host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce

00:00:49.700 --> 00:00:52.820
my guest for today, Tijl Sumitz. Tijl is currently

00:00:52.820 --> 00:00:55.280
the IFSC Europe president, but is now running

00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:57.719
for the president of IFSC with elections taking

00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:00.560
place in April. In this episode, we'll learn

00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.399
about how IFSC politics works, hear about the

00:01:03.399 --> 00:01:05.920
changes he wants to make within the IFSC, and

00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:08.640
get his take on some hot topic issues like National

00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:11.359
Federation quotas, red -ice testing, and the

00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:14.239
NEOM Games. I really appreciate him being willing

00:01:14.239 --> 00:01:16.959
to answer some difficult questions. So I hope

00:01:16.959 --> 00:01:28.200
you enjoy this episode with Tijl. Real quick,

00:01:28.340 --> 00:01:30.319
I'm excited to announce my new sponsor helping

00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:33.099
make this podcast episode possible, Mad Rock

00:01:33.099 --> 00:01:35.540
Climbing. I got fitted with their brand new line

00:01:35.540 --> 00:01:38.879
of high -performance shoes, the D2 .1s. They

00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:41.260
just came out December 6th, but you might notice

00:01:41.260 --> 00:01:43.239
a few of your favorite gomp climbers are already

00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:46.060
wearing them, like Oscar Beaudrin from Team Canada,

00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:50.299
and also... me. This is the first time I've gotten

00:01:50.299 --> 00:01:52.219
to wear their shoes for an extended period of

00:01:52.219 --> 00:01:54.239
time and I'm actually super impressed with the

00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:56.780
grip of their in -house rubber and of course

00:01:56.780 --> 00:01:59.340
the famous drone heel that everyone says is the

00:01:59.340 --> 00:02:02.219
cheat code to heel hooking small edges. Feel

00:02:02.219 --> 00:02:03.959
free to message me if you have any questions

00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:06.439
about the shoes or sizing and you can use the

00:02:06.439 --> 00:02:09.860
discount code notrealclimber for 10 % off your

00:02:09.860 --> 00:02:13.159
entire Mad Rock order. Info will be in the description.

00:02:13.460 --> 00:02:16.199
Back to the show. So yeah, let's just get right

00:02:16.199 --> 00:02:19.900
into a little bit of your history um some easy

00:02:19.900 --> 00:02:22.139
questions before we get into like the hot button

00:02:22.139 --> 00:02:27.060
issues okay um so how did you start um climbing

00:02:27.060 --> 00:02:29.560
and for those who don't know you what do you

00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:34.180
do for the ifsc so um i started climbing being

00:02:34.180 --> 00:02:36.740
little i always loved climbing in trees and i

00:02:36.740 --> 00:02:39.439
watched uh sometimes when we were visiting south

00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:42.180
of france we were with my parents in the verdon

00:02:42.180 --> 00:02:45.669
valley and we saw climbers on on the on the walls

00:02:45.669 --> 00:02:48.210
and it was impressive for me and then we went

00:02:48.210 --> 00:02:51.509
hiking in the mountains in Austria and I really

00:02:51.509 --> 00:02:54.009
love pictures of people climbing free climbing

00:02:54.009 --> 00:02:57.270
in the 80s style with the pink pants and etc

00:02:57.270 --> 00:03:00.349
so I was quite impressed by that and in the end

00:03:00.349 --> 00:03:03.909
only when I was 18 years old I managed to start

00:03:03.909 --> 00:03:07.030
climbing in an indoor gym and I was immediately

00:03:07.030 --> 00:03:11.009
hooked up I wanted to climb three times a week

00:03:11.009 --> 00:03:14.520
and Yeah, it was really a new passion I discovered.

00:03:14.699 --> 00:03:17.219
And soon I also discovered climbing on the rocks,

00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:20.560
which was even more my thing. Apparently, I really

00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:23.560
love being outdoors and then climbing. So that's

00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:26.979
the way how I started from trees to walls to

00:03:26.979 --> 00:03:30.159
the rocks. And then since I was studying sports

00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:32.900
education, I was really motivated with some people

00:03:32.900 --> 00:03:35.979
in the climbing gym to somehow share the passion

00:03:35.979 --> 00:03:39.240
and to allow kids to start climbing. So we quite

00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:43.349
soon. Launched a club. I climbed merely one year

00:03:43.349 --> 00:03:46.289
when we started with some friends. A club for

00:03:46.289 --> 00:03:49.110
small kids to educate them in the climbing. Since

00:03:49.110 --> 00:03:51.590
it aligned with my studies as well. So that's

00:03:51.590 --> 00:03:54.330
how I started somehow in the climbing business

00:03:54.330 --> 00:03:58.210
as well. As a volunteer though, not as a business.

00:03:58.610 --> 00:04:01.629
Right, yes. That's how I started climbing. And

00:04:01.629 --> 00:04:05.289
how did I end up in the IFSC? Well, during sports

00:04:05.289 --> 00:04:08.599
education, I managed to become... coach of the

00:04:08.599 --> 00:04:11.740
Belgian climbing team when being on international

00:04:11.740 --> 00:04:14.400
competitions at the world championships in Indonesia

00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:20.199
no in Singapore sorry in 2012 there was a rule

00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:23.319
that said that if there was a tight spot at the

00:04:23.319 --> 00:04:26.939
gold medal place then based upon the speed of

00:04:26.939 --> 00:04:29.560
climbing in the finals of the lead that would

00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:32.120
be defined who is the winner and between all

00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:34.480
coaches we cut like oh this is not raw this is

00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:36.439
wrong it should not be based on time because

00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:39.160
it is lead climbing not speed climbing so at

00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:41.259
that point with all the coaches we decided to

00:04:41.259 --> 00:04:43.879
send an email to the ifsc complaining and asking

00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:46.000
like can this rule be changed and by the way

00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:48.720
don't we need a coach's representative in the

00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:52.329
ifsc Okay, at the IFC level, we didn't manage

00:04:52.329 --> 00:04:54.689
to get a coach's representative for the youth

00:04:54.689 --> 00:04:57.550
events at that moment, but we did get in the

00:04:57.550 --> 00:05:00.930
IFC Europe Sport Commission and I was lucky to

00:05:00.930 --> 00:05:04.230
be chosen as the coach's representative. At the

00:05:04.230 --> 00:05:06.930
same time, I started a full -time position inside

00:05:06.930 --> 00:05:09.350
the Belgian Federation as sports director and

00:05:09.350 --> 00:05:14.790
they decided to send me to the General Assemblies

00:05:14.790 --> 00:05:17.639
as National Federation's delegate. And so that

00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:21.079
way I rolled into it. I liked it. I like to bring

00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:23.779
opinions of people together and to make sure

00:05:23.779 --> 00:05:26.480
that we all had our say and that the general

00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:31.579
opinion was respected. And so in 2021, the National

00:05:31.579 --> 00:05:34.819
Federations of Europe decided to elect me as

00:05:34.819 --> 00:05:38.360
their president for IOC Europe. which also brought

00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:41.399
me into the IVC board. So the last four years,

00:05:41.420 --> 00:05:44.459
I have been part of the IVC board as Europe representative,

00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:48.060
and I have been IVC Europe president, thanks

00:05:48.060 --> 00:05:49.980
to the trust that the National Federations gave

00:05:49.980 --> 00:05:52.160
me. I don't know if I knew that you were the

00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:56.040
Belgian coach. How long were you doing that for?

00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:59.899
Oh, I think my first year coaching or my first

00:05:59.899 --> 00:06:03.339
competition was in 2007, was my first taste.

00:06:03.379 --> 00:06:07.279
I could go to Kranj, to the youth cup that we

00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:09.500
had, the European Youth Cup organized in Kranj,

00:06:09.500 --> 00:06:12.420
in Slovenia, back in the old days. And then from

00:06:12.420 --> 00:06:14.480
the year after, I was full -time coaching the

00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:19.029
youth team. and so yeah from 2007 or 8 rather

00:06:19.029 --> 00:06:24.350
till 2019 I was actively coaching and 2020 corona

00:06:24.350 --> 00:06:28.050
there was no coaching 2021 2022 I still had to

00:06:28.050 --> 00:06:32.649
do some I had to fill in some holes where we

00:06:32.649 --> 00:06:34.990
didn't have other coaches available but I was

00:06:34.990 --> 00:06:36.870
already less coaching because in the end there

00:06:36.870 --> 00:06:39.009
is a possible conflict of interest between being

00:06:39.009 --> 00:06:41.370
the president of IBC Europe and being a coach

00:06:41.939 --> 00:06:44.779
So I was more in the background, allowing a bit

00:06:44.779 --> 00:06:49.120
more the logistic side and not actively appealing

00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:51.579
or those things, but I was still helping a bit.

00:06:51.660 --> 00:06:55.779
So yeah, roughly 15 years, but maybe a bit less.

00:06:56.180 --> 00:06:59.279
Yeah, that's a long time. How did you like coaching?

00:07:00.019 --> 00:07:02.920
Oh, I loved coaching a lot. Sometimes I still

00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:06.540
miss it in the end. I love a lot to climb myself,

00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:10.300
but I love also to show people that they can.

00:07:10.970 --> 00:07:13.129
be stronger than they thought they could be or

00:07:13.129 --> 00:07:15.910
that they can surpass themselves and somehow

00:07:15.910 --> 00:07:18.670
guide them in the process to discover how to

00:07:18.670 --> 00:07:21.750
use their body and how to put goals and to go

00:07:21.750 --> 00:07:24.290
for new goals. So I really like to work with

00:07:24.290 --> 00:07:27.649
kids mostly, but I also coached adults for a

00:07:27.649 --> 00:07:30.470
long time. That was my way of earning my money.

00:07:30.550 --> 00:07:33.029
I was in the end, before I started working for

00:07:33.029 --> 00:07:35.750
the Belgian Federation, I was... an independent

00:07:35.750 --> 00:07:38.730
climbing coach working as a volunteer for the

00:07:38.730 --> 00:07:42.610
youth team in in my city and as a professional

00:07:42.610 --> 00:07:45.990
for seniors for not for seniors for adults infected

00:07:45.990 --> 00:07:51.930
as well debutants beginners as as experts so

00:07:51.930 --> 00:07:55.389
yeah i love to to teach people how to climb but

00:07:55.389 --> 00:07:58.029
then since i got more and more involved in in

00:07:58.029 --> 00:08:00.290
the management of sports climbing in the end

00:08:00.290 --> 00:08:03.740
at a certain time i could not combine both anymore

00:08:03.740 --> 00:08:06.600
also if you coach people you need to have trust

00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:09.759
and if you manage a team somehow you also decide

00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:13.019
who gets money who doesn't get money so people

00:08:13.019 --> 00:08:16.879
maybe don't can they are not able to tell you

00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:19.220
the full truth anymore at all moments somehow

00:08:19.220 --> 00:08:21.800
because if you tell to the one who's giving the

00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:24.000
money that you're injured maybe you get less

00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:26.259
money or there is the fear of not getting selected

00:08:26.259 --> 00:08:30.079
and those things and also just on my own side

00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:33.379
as well I didn't have time anymore for coaching

00:08:33.379 --> 00:08:36.539
really seriously, being fully focused on the

00:08:36.539 --> 00:08:38.440
performance of the athletes. And in the end,

00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:40.960
the athlete deserves a coach who is fully focused

00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:43.139
on them and who doesn't need to take care of

00:08:43.139 --> 00:08:46.340
the overall management of the federation. So

00:08:46.340 --> 00:08:48.960
it was a choice, but I still miss it sometimes,

00:08:49.179 --> 00:08:51.720
definitely. Yeah, yeah, no, that definitely makes

00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:55.759
sense. I mean, do you still do any professional

00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:59.799
adult coaching, since that's not really... There's

00:08:59.799 --> 00:09:02.299
no conflict of interest there? There is no conflict

00:09:02.299 --> 00:09:04.419
of interest. There is a conflict of schedule.

00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:09.460
So I even stopped coaching adults sooner than

00:09:09.460 --> 00:09:12.220
I stopped coaching youth. The passion really

00:09:12.220 --> 00:09:16.700
is to help young people to grow. And I didn't

00:09:16.700 --> 00:09:19.059
need it that much anymore for the money side

00:09:19.059 --> 00:09:21.399
because I had a full -time job already at that

00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:25.000
time. So I stopped with adult coaching in 2015,

00:09:25.340 --> 00:09:28.480
I think. But I continued with the youth later

00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:31.120
on. But yeah, of course, if there's friends of

00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:34.639
mine who start climbing now or that want some

00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:37.799
advice, I happily give advice. And I tend maybe

00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:39.860
even to give too much advice because I still

00:09:39.860 --> 00:09:42.820
have the coaching habit in me. When I go climbing

00:09:42.820 --> 00:09:45.980
with friends, I need to slow down a bit in my

00:09:45.980 --> 00:09:48.679
tips to them because sometimes it should be for

00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:51.779
fun and not for training also. Right, sure. Do

00:09:51.779 --> 00:09:55.759
you have like a number one tip or like mindset

00:09:55.759 --> 00:09:59.019
for... for coaching that you want to get out

00:09:59.019 --> 00:10:03.240
there oh on the technical side i definitely like

00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:06.019
one exercise for each and every level of climber

00:10:06.019 --> 00:10:09.620
it maybe sounds stupid but a beginner if you

00:10:09.620 --> 00:10:13.159
tell them to to climb in silence where you don't

00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:16.700
hear the feet on the on the footholds that's

00:10:16.700 --> 00:10:18.679
a good one but in the end even even a strong

00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:21.340
climber if he focuses once in a while on being

00:10:21.340 --> 00:10:24.860
silent with the feet It's a good thing to focus

00:10:24.860 --> 00:10:28.220
once more on the specific analytical part of

00:10:28.220 --> 00:10:32.080
climbing. It's my favorite exercise for all beginners

00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:35.200
and even intermediate level. That's for sure.

00:10:35.539 --> 00:10:39.399
And then, yeah, the one big thing is enjoy what

00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:42.500
you do and see the things that give you pure

00:10:42.500 --> 00:10:45.519
joy and don't start doing things because you

00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:48.980
think that you have to do them. Joy is most important,

00:10:49.259 --> 00:10:53.629
I think. Awesome. OK, so going back to, I guess,

00:10:53.649 --> 00:10:58.870
the logistical IFSC side of things. So you are

00:10:58.870 --> 00:11:02.450
running for IFSC president. How does this process

00:11:02.450 --> 00:11:06.870
work? OK, so every four years there is elections

00:11:06.870 --> 00:11:11.960
in the IFSC. For the full board, unless you take,

00:11:12.019 --> 00:11:14.159
you don't need to take into account the athletes

00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:16.799
representatives because they are elected by the

00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:19.039
athletes during the world championships. Every

00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:21.659
two years, there is the half of the election

00:11:21.659 --> 00:11:24.620
of the athletes commission that is elected. So

00:11:24.620 --> 00:11:27.120
that's a separate election process, but all the

00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:28.940
board members, vice presidents and president

00:11:28.940 --> 00:11:31.720
position, they get elected every four years.

00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:35.659
And indeed this year, some of the board members

00:11:35.659 --> 00:11:37.860
are not allowed to represent themselves again.

00:11:38.730 --> 00:11:41.789
However, Marcos Colaris, he asked for an exception

00:11:41.789 --> 00:11:46.990
because of all the merit he brought to this project

00:11:46.990 --> 00:11:49.690
and because there still might be the need to

00:11:49.690 --> 00:11:53.610
continue with him as president. So he can represent

00:11:53.610 --> 00:11:56.590
himself this year. But of course, other candidates

00:11:56.590 --> 00:11:58.929
can appear as well. And I am one of the other

00:11:58.929 --> 00:12:01.129
candidates. I don't know if there will be others

00:12:01.129 --> 00:12:03.149
for the president's position. In the end, we

00:12:03.149 --> 00:12:06.149
only... confirmed our candidacies this week with

00:12:06.149 --> 00:12:09.049
the IFSC and they still go through the nomination

00:12:09.049 --> 00:12:11.549
committee with all the candidates and then this

00:12:11.549 --> 00:12:13.990
needs to be confirmed towards all national federations.

00:12:14.629 --> 00:12:17.769
So all those board positions can have candidates

00:12:17.769 --> 00:12:21.549
and the nomination committee decides if the candidates

00:12:21.549 --> 00:12:24.549
are eligible or not. And so the different board

00:12:24.549 --> 00:12:27.769
positions are president, vice president or continental

00:12:27.769 --> 00:12:33.149
representative. That's a bit the different positions

00:12:33.149 --> 00:12:35.690
that are going for elections every four years.

00:12:35.950 --> 00:12:38.730
Okay, so he's not like necessarily stepping down.

00:12:38.850 --> 00:12:41.190
This is just something that happens every four

00:12:41.190 --> 00:12:44.289
years. Every four years there is elections and

00:12:44.289 --> 00:12:46.610
there can be candidates, as many candidates as

00:12:46.610 --> 00:12:50.610
there are people interested to do so. I think

00:12:50.610 --> 00:12:52.610
this year there will be many candidates because,

00:12:52.730 --> 00:12:56.279
yeah, it's been a long time. that the IABC is

00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:59.759
growing. We are Olympic now. There is some board

00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:03.419
members that cannot stand again for being part

00:13:03.419 --> 00:13:05.899
of the board. So there is vacant positions in

00:13:05.899 --> 00:13:08.299
any case. And there is some interest, I think.

00:13:08.379 --> 00:13:10.820
So we will have interesting elections and hopefully

00:13:10.820 --> 00:13:14.259
we will have a, we will for sure have an interesting

00:13:14.259 --> 00:13:18.559
team of board members starting from April onwards.

00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:21.779
And you don't know who like any of the other

00:13:21.779 --> 00:13:25.240
candidates are at the moment? We have, of course,

00:13:25.299 --> 00:13:27.320
the rumors circulating and some people that are

00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:31.200
saying it's allowed. So for president, maybe

00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:34.840
there is only two persons, Marcos Colaris and

00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:40.159
me. But then for vice president, so there is

00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:42.960
four vice presidents, I think, I believe, on

00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:45.659
the female vice president side. So there is two

00:13:45.659 --> 00:13:48.419
positions. It should be female and two positions

00:13:48.419 --> 00:13:51.070
which are male. I believe on the female side,

00:13:51.169 --> 00:13:52.909
there is two candidates. On the male side, there

00:13:52.909 --> 00:13:55.429
might be four or five candidates. So it's going

00:13:55.429 --> 00:13:58.070
to be a tough competition there with all valuable

00:13:58.070 --> 00:14:00.370
candidates. So the national federations will

00:14:00.370 --> 00:14:03.149
have hard choices also on that level. And now

00:14:03.149 --> 00:14:05.950
for the continental representatives, I believe

00:14:05.950 --> 00:14:07.490
that in the different continents, there have

00:14:07.490 --> 00:14:10.169
been some talks, but still, I think also there,

00:14:10.210 --> 00:14:13.549
there might be multiple candidates for each continent.

00:14:13.929 --> 00:14:16.789
So it's going to be interesting elections for

00:14:16.789 --> 00:14:19.600
sure. And I guess, sorry if this is a basic question,

00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:23.639
but like who's voting for this or like who decides?

00:14:23.740 --> 00:14:25.919
Good question. Definitely a good question. So

00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:28.240
all the national federations of the IFSC have

00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:30.639
a vote. It's one vote per national federation.

00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:33.720
I think we have 101 national federations nowadays,

00:14:34.019 --> 00:14:36.659
which we're still growing. So sometimes it's

00:14:36.659 --> 00:14:40.419
and some change. So I think the count now is

00:14:40.419 --> 00:14:43.840
101 national federations that can vote during

00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.539
the General Assembly, which happens in Cyprus.

00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:49.039
And there is three options for voting. So or

00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:51.759
you are there in person, or you can participate

00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:55.519
online with online voting, or you can even give

00:14:55.519 --> 00:15:00.700
a procuration, a proxy vote to another national

00:15:00.700 --> 00:15:03.659
federation. So the democratic process is quite

00:15:03.659 --> 00:15:07.740
wide, I would say. Participation is highly encouraged,

00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:11.940
I would say. Okay, great. Okay, so then going

00:15:11.940 --> 00:15:15.809
into some of the things that... I guess things

00:15:15.809 --> 00:15:17.429
that you might want to change or problems that

00:15:17.429 --> 00:15:20.570
you would want to work on. What things are the

00:15:20.570 --> 00:15:23.330
IFSC focused on right now that you don't think

00:15:23.330 --> 00:15:26.190
are as important or that they don't need to be

00:15:26.190 --> 00:15:29.629
as focused on? It's a tricky question you ask,

00:15:29.649 --> 00:15:31.509
because I don't think that the focuses that are

00:15:31.509 --> 00:15:33.809
existing now are not as important. Because, for

00:15:33.809 --> 00:15:36.269
example, the main focus of the last 17 years

00:15:36.269 --> 00:15:39.769
was being part of the Olympic Games. And that

00:15:39.769 --> 00:15:42.730
stays, of course, a very important point for

00:15:42.730 --> 00:15:45.309
the future as well. But we managed to be in the

00:15:45.309 --> 00:15:48.009
Olympic Games up till now, two times already.

00:15:48.110 --> 00:15:51.250
We are confirmed for Los Angeles also as a program

00:15:51.250 --> 00:15:54.110
sport. So I think we've shown our value in the

00:15:54.110 --> 00:15:56.429
Olympic Games. We are part of the Olympic family

00:15:56.429 --> 00:15:59.830
now. So that's somehow achieved. And I think

00:15:59.830 --> 00:16:02.190
indeed that over the last 70 years, there have

00:16:02.190 --> 00:16:06.029
been a strong operational focus. And also at

00:16:06.029 --> 00:16:08.409
board level, we have been focused on delivering

00:16:08.409 --> 00:16:11.250
these Olympic Games. And that has been good.

00:16:11.289 --> 00:16:13.129
But now that we're in there, I think we need

00:16:13.129 --> 00:16:15.730
to step up to the next level. And it is important

00:16:15.730 --> 00:16:19.250
now that we somehow shift from being operationally

00:16:19.250 --> 00:16:23.309
focused to having real long -term strategy to

00:16:23.309 --> 00:16:26.320
work broadly, more widely. definitely having

00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:30.919
a development focus where we help all national

00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:33.559
federations to grow. Because in the end, the

00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:36.419
Olympic Games, it's a very good goal to have,

00:16:36.539 --> 00:16:39.500
but only roughly 20 national federations manage

00:16:39.500 --> 00:16:41.759
to participate in the Olympic Games because we

00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:44.379
have limited medals, we have limited quota places.

00:16:45.149 --> 00:16:48.590
So all the 81 other national federations, so

00:16:48.590 --> 00:16:51.370
to say, they don't get necessarily the push from

00:16:51.370 --> 00:16:53.289
their National Olympic Committee. They don't

00:16:53.289 --> 00:16:55.850
get the recognition or it is more difficult to

00:16:55.850 --> 00:16:57.970
get that recognition. It's more difficult to

00:16:57.970 --> 00:17:00.490
develop. You cannot say we have an Olympian,

00:17:00.490 --> 00:17:03.669
so please sponsors come and help us. No, they

00:17:03.669 --> 00:17:05.829
still need to get to the level of the Olympic

00:17:05.829 --> 00:17:09.319
Games. So I believe that... Having an Olympic

00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:11.680
focus for the future, it is still needed, even

00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:13.839
a Paralympic focus, because we are part of the

00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:17.180
Paralympic Games now as well. But on the other

00:17:17.180 --> 00:17:19.380
side, there should be a huge focus on development

00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:24.160
and making sure that we all grow globally. All

00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:26.460
continents, all national federations get the

00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:29.119
chance to develop furthermore. I think that's

00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:32.599
the main focus for the future, the development

00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:35.220
of the national federations. We'll definitely

00:17:35.220 --> 00:17:37.519
get into like the development portion a little

00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:40.359
bit later. I guess just real quick about the

00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:44.079
Olympic Games. As a program sport, does that

00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:47.680
mean that we still might like get kicked out

00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:49.640
in the future? Or does that mean we're like forever

00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:54.150
in the Olympics? In the past, we would say, yeah,

00:17:54.170 --> 00:17:56.150
once you're a program sport, you're in the Olympics

00:17:56.150 --> 00:18:00.170
forever. However, it is changing more and more.

00:18:00.250 --> 00:18:03.210
I think the phrase they use nowadays is the sliding

00:18:03.210 --> 00:18:05.950
doors. So it might happen that you stay in, it

00:18:05.950 --> 00:18:08.349
might happen that you get kicked out, but it

00:18:08.349 --> 00:18:12.569
depends a bit on the value you have. So indeed,

00:18:12.710 --> 00:18:15.990
we have been invitational sports in Tokyo and

00:18:15.990 --> 00:18:18.490
in Paris. It's in the end, Tokyo will choose

00:18:18.490 --> 00:18:21.769
to invite us. Firstly, Paris confirmed that invitation

00:18:21.769 --> 00:18:26.049
as well. For Los Angeles, the IOC decided to

00:18:26.049 --> 00:18:28.450
include us in the full program, but for Brisbane,

00:18:28.549 --> 00:18:31.690
this confirmation has not been given yet. Of

00:18:31.690 --> 00:18:34.650
course, since we are now a program sport, we

00:18:34.650 --> 00:18:37.750
somehow hope that this means that somehow there

00:18:37.750 --> 00:18:40.390
is a confirmation at least for two, three editions

00:18:40.390 --> 00:18:42.690
in a row, but we don't have that confirmation

00:18:42.690 --> 00:18:46.589
and we still need to show that we are. there

00:18:46.589 --> 00:18:49.470
and that we we deserve to be there so we still

00:18:49.470 --> 00:18:51.589
have an operational challenge there to really

00:18:51.589 --> 00:18:55.410
deliver good games definitely okay so then going

00:18:55.410 --> 00:18:59.009
forward um what kind of changes do you want to

00:18:59.009 --> 00:19:00.930
make or what do you feel like you're most um

00:19:00.930 --> 00:19:05.289
focused on so as as mentioned already before

00:19:05.289 --> 00:19:07.849
i think development is the main one so going

00:19:07.849 --> 00:19:11.789
from Only the operational focus getting to development.

00:19:11.930 --> 00:19:15.190
And I think within development, the most obvious

00:19:15.190 --> 00:19:18.730
way to push development is by education. Up till

00:19:18.730 --> 00:19:21.809
now, IFSC has been focused on education programs

00:19:21.809 --> 00:19:25.890
for root setters and for judges and quite specifically

00:19:25.890 --> 00:19:28.950
on the needs that they have for the events or

00:19:28.950 --> 00:19:31.730
that we as IFSC, I mean, have for the events

00:19:31.730 --> 00:19:34.789
that we organize ourselves. So mainly the World

00:19:34.789 --> 00:19:38.680
Cups and also the Continental event. But in the

00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:41.819
end, I think that we need to push route setting

00:19:41.819 --> 00:19:44.940
and judging also at the global level for all

00:19:44.940 --> 00:19:46.960
national federations. We need to make sure that

00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:50.299
all national federations get the experience from

00:19:50.299 --> 00:19:52.180
the international level, at least brought to

00:19:52.180 --> 00:19:54.720
them. So every national federation should get

00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:56.920
the opportunity to have someone who learns at

00:19:56.920 --> 00:19:59.940
least the highest level of route setting or learns

00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:02.440
the highest level of judging and can bring that

00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:05.250
experience and that knowledge to there. country

00:20:05.250 --> 00:20:08.430
and make sure that it gets educated there as

00:20:08.430 --> 00:20:11.869
well. But it's not only about route setters and

00:20:11.869 --> 00:20:15.650
about judges. It's also about coaches teaching

00:20:15.650 --> 00:20:19.109
the athletes in how to develop themselves, teaching

00:20:19.109 --> 00:20:22.289
the administrators in how we can market our sport,

00:20:22.470 --> 00:20:25.410
how we can grow our sport, how we make sure that

00:20:25.410 --> 00:20:28.990
we do good safeguarding of all people involved.

00:20:29.170 --> 00:20:31.069
Not only the athletes need safeguarding, everyone

00:20:31.069 --> 00:20:34.539
involved somehow needs to be taken care of. So

00:20:34.539 --> 00:20:37.680
it's really about a lot of different educational

00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:40.140
programs that we could launch. I also think,

00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:42.700
for example, of the belayers for lead climbing

00:20:42.700 --> 00:20:45.740
is really important that you have certified belayers

00:20:45.740 --> 00:20:48.279
that really know how to belay in a good way.

00:20:49.339 --> 00:20:52.480
All those kinds of educational programs might

00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:57.220
be very useful for the future. So yeah, I think

00:20:57.220 --> 00:21:01.259
that's the main focus. And then secondly, I think

00:21:01.259 --> 00:21:05.970
also that... For the IFSC and in the end for

00:21:05.970 --> 00:21:08.890
every organization in the world probably, sustainability

00:21:08.890 --> 00:21:12.509
should be a big one. And if I speak of sustainability,

00:21:12.730 --> 00:21:15.390
I don't only talk about the environmental part

00:21:15.390 --> 00:21:18.150
because people tend to say like, oh, sustainability,

00:21:18.369 --> 00:21:20.630
yeah, but it's all about nature. And in the end,

00:21:20.670 --> 00:21:23.150
there is other things that are more important

00:21:23.150 --> 00:21:25.710
for a sports organization. But I believe that

00:21:25.710 --> 00:21:28.029
sustainability, it's about economic, it's about

00:21:28.029 --> 00:21:30.930
social and environmental sustainability. And

00:21:30.930 --> 00:21:33.289
for economic, it means that you create the good.

00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:37.859
economic environment for the sport to flourish.

00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.660
So you make sure that there is a structure behind

00:21:40.660 --> 00:21:45.160
that grows and that somehow makes it possible

00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:48.819
to finance ourselves in a better way. So by an

00:21:48.819 --> 00:21:51.740
event model, which has indeed the World Championship

00:21:51.740 --> 00:21:54.839
and the World Cups as main events and the Olympic

00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:57.609
Games above all that. But of course, then you

00:21:57.609 --> 00:22:00.410
also need to have the continental level. You

00:22:00.410 --> 00:22:02.970
need to have a regional level. You need to facilitate

00:22:02.970 --> 00:22:05.529
somehow even the development of national events,

00:22:05.769 --> 00:22:10.029
et cetera, et cetera. Branding around this, marketing

00:22:10.029 --> 00:22:13.549
around this. So making the full economic environment

00:22:13.549 --> 00:22:16.349
and the full structure of how we function, making

00:22:16.349 --> 00:22:20.450
it interesting to maintain in the long run. And

00:22:20.450 --> 00:22:22.589
on the social level, it's about taking care of

00:22:22.589 --> 00:22:25.079
our volunteers. It's about taking care. of the

00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:27.519
root setters of the judges making sure that for

00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:31.119
example judges and volunteers they get somehow

00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:33.440
the compensation they deserve and that they feel

00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:35.819
that they can contribute in a positive way and

00:22:35.819 --> 00:22:38.059
they don't get used but they are really part

00:22:38.059 --> 00:22:42.319
of the family or root setters I've heard of root

00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:45.700
setters that also have injuries in the end and

00:22:45.700 --> 00:22:48.259
then you need to make sure that they can work

00:22:48.259 --> 00:22:50.940
in healthy conditions and that they can also

00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:54.269
if they get injured that they don't fall without

00:22:54.269 --> 00:22:56.930
work that they have something to continue living

00:22:56.930 --> 00:23:00.009
um so that's a bit the social part making sure

00:23:00.009 --> 00:23:02.509
that somehow people can live of their passion

00:23:02.509 --> 00:23:05.789
and of course environmental is also part of everything

00:23:05.789 --> 00:23:08.650
because the world we only have one plant but

00:23:08.650 --> 00:23:10.890
i think sustainability it's even more on the

00:23:10.890 --> 00:23:13.369
economic and the social part than the environmental

00:23:13.369 --> 00:23:16.650
part if you do good first two probably the third

00:23:16.650 --> 00:23:20.730
one will also become better because you you use

00:23:20.730 --> 00:23:23.700
better the resources you have you don't abuse

00:23:23.700 --> 00:23:26.359
the resources but you use your resources in a

00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:29.160
healthy way so that's how i think that sustainability

00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:33.799
is important and if i can add one more so there

00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:37.140
was development and education there was sustainability

00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:40.619
in its three different aspects and then lastly

00:23:40.619 --> 00:23:44.359
a focus for me is teamwork and cooperation because

00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:47.079
in the end it's not only on board level but i

00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:51.420
mean each and every stakeholder in the full organization

00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:54.099
should be part of the team and if you work well

00:23:54.099 --> 00:23:56.059
with the national federations with the continental

00:23:56.059 --> 00:23:58.819
councils with the commissions with the office

00:23:58.819 --> 00:24:02.519
of course with other stakeholders with experts

00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:04.700
and if you make sure that each and everyone is

00:24:04.700 --> 00:24:06.940
involved and that there is a sharing of knowledge

00:24:06.940 --> 00:24:09.980
and an exchange of of good habits and and of

00:24:09.980 --> 00:24:12.500
maybe also the mistakes that have been made so

00:24:12.500 --> 00:24:14.880
everyone learns from each other i think that

00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:18.519
will allow the organization to really grow to

00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:23.519
to to its best uh potential okay yeah that makes

00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:25.940
sense um i guess the main thing that comes to

00:24:25.940 --> 00:24:29.319
mind for me is like the funding issue and it

00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:32.420
seems like i mean we always talk about how there's

00:24:32.420 --> 00:24:35.019
like not really enough funding in climbing or

00:24:35.019 --> 00:24:38.839
competition climbing specifically um and then

00:24:39.789 --> 00:24:42.769
I think like with funding, you kind of need that

00:24:42.769 --> 00:24:45.329
money there to be able to start like these educational

00:24:45.329 --> 00:24:51.950
processes and everything like that. Do you have

00:24:51.950 --> 00:24:55.289
an idea of like how to increase the funding?

00:24:55.430 --> 00:24:58.690
Because that seems like something that no one

00:24:58.690 --> 00:25:00.930
really knows how to tackle. It's not that no

00:25:00.930 --> 00:25:03.589
one knows. It is indeed a very difficult question,

00:25:03.809 --> 00:25:06.470
but it's the full package that you need to grow

00:25:06.470 --> 00:25:09.710
in order to solve this funding issue. So funding

00:25:09.710 --> 00:25:13.230
indeed is the basis of everything, how you fund

00:25:13.230 --> 00:25:16.150
things. And of course, for example, we largely

00:25:16.150 --> 00:25:20.849
hope or base ourselves on Olympic funding. But

00:25:20.849 --> 00:25:24.130
in the end, we never had a lot of Olympic funding

00:25:24.130 --> 00:25:26.839
and we had to look for other opportunities. So

00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:28.980
in the end, over the last 70 years, I believe

00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:31.579
the IFC has done already a very good job in obtaining

00:25:31.579 --> 00:25:33.980
more and more funding and in growing the image

00:25:33.980 --> 00:25:36.440
of the sport. So that's one thing you need to

00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:38.880
work on, on the different revenue streams that

00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:41.500
you might have. And I think there has been done

00:25:41.500 --> 00:25:44.460
already a very good job till now, but we can

00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:46.740
still do more if you really work on a good event

00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:49.460
model. And if at next to that event model, you

00:25:49.460 --> 00:25:52.119
do good branding and you do good marketing, you

00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:56.130
can find more. than we have nowadays. And over

00:25:56.130 --> 00:25:58.130
the last years, we have seen that there has been

00:25:58.130 --> 00:26:02.630
some interesting new deals happening. One clear

00:26:02.630 --> 00:26:05.390
example is that in Europe, now we are on Eurosport.

00:26:05.690 --> 00:26:09.990
And Eurosport gives the possibility to millions

00:26:09.990 --> 00:26:12.990
and millions of viewers to watch our sport. So

00:26:12.990 --> 00:26:15.210
somehow the importance of our sport has grown

00:26:15.210 --> 00:26:17.990
over the last years. And that's the way we need

00:26:17.990 --> 00:26:20.529
to go. And I definitely believe that with our

00:26:20.529 --> 00:26:22.970
appearance in the Tokyo Games, in Paris Games,

00:26:23.309 --> 00:26:28.150
this is even pushed furthermore. So it is by

00:26:28.150 --> 00:26:31.569
making good events, by doing good branding around

00:26:31.569 --> 00:26:34.470
events, by doing good marketing, that we will

00:26:34.470 --> 00:26:37.250
manage at IOC level. But in the end, you also

00:26:37.250 --> 00:26:39.730
allow the same happening at continental level

00:26:39.730 --> 00:26:43.539
and the same happening at national level. Just

00:26:43.539 --> 00:26:46.460
to explain at continental level in Europe, we

00:26:46.460 --> 00:26:50.319
started a YouTube channel two or three years

00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:53.400
ago. I'm not 100 % certain when we started. But

00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:56.079
so in the past, we didn't have this specific

00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:58.779
European YouTube channel for our European Youth

00:26:58.779 --> 00:27:01.519
Cups and for our European Cups. But that's also

00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:04.220
making sure that we get more visibility at the

00:27:04.220 --> 00:27:06.700
continental level. If you have visibility, you

00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:08.480
can build an image. If you have an image, you

00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:10.779
can do good branding around this and you can

00:27:10.779 --> 00:27:13.890
do marketing around this. That's one example,

00:27:13.970 --> 00:27:17.430
or at national level, since we are in Europe

00:27:17.430 --> 00:27:19.769
now on Eurosport, and I believe in other continents

00:27:19.769 --> 00:27:22.509
there is also more and more visibility. So since

00:27:22.509 --> 00:27:25.250
you are more visible on the television, in the

00:27:25.250 --> 00:27:28.250
end, as a national federation, you can also look

00:27:28.250 --> 00:27:30.369
for more visibility for your national events.

00:27:30.589 --> 00:27:34.109
The overall knowledge of the public of the sport

00:27:34.109 --> 00:27:37.359
is growing. So yeah, this creates more and more

00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.500
possibilities. That's for the event side. And

00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:42.599
since you also mentioned the educational side,

00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:46.920
I want to dig into that as well. For me, education

00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:51.220
doesn't need to be for free a root setter. He

00:27:51.220 --> 00:27:53.539
makes his living out of it. It's a profession.

00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:56.440
So if you follow a professional education, you

00:27:56.440 --> 00:27:59.500
can pay for it. It doesn't need to be a hyper

00:27:59.500 --> 00:28:03.910
expensive neither. Up till now, I think lots

00:28:03.910 --> 00:28:07.690
of these programs have been financed by solidarity

00:28:07.690 --> 00:28:12.250
programs. But why can't we ask a little contribution

00:28:12.250 --> 00:28:15.470
of the ones following the courses so that somehow

00:28:15.470 --> 00:28:20.769
we create a budget or an auto -financing system,

00:28:20.849 --> 00:28:24.180
I would say. everyone who follows an educational

00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:26.559
program he pays a little bit we get a little

00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:28.559
bit of gain out of this and this gain we can

00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:31.400
automatically reinvest in more educational programs

00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:34.039
and this in all the different kinds of courses

00:28:34.039 --> 00:28:37.839
so in this way I think we can really find with

00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:43.480
the IFC many ways of creating revenue and if

00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:47.940
we keep investing everything in further development

00:28:47.940 --> 00:28:51.789
I don't think this is wrong to do I guess the

00:28:51.789 --> 00:28:55.750
thing that comes to mind about that is I've heard

00:28:55.750 --> 00:28:58.069
that maybe the route setters don't get paid so

00:28:58.069 --> 00:29:03.509
much for setting for like IFSC events or yeah,

00:29:03.569 --> 00:29:06.529
I guess mainly for like IFSC events I don't know

00:29:06.529 --> 00:29:10.250
about for the Olympics. So if they have to also

00:29:10.250 --> 00:29:13.170
like pay for their development, does that kind

00:29:13.170 --> 00:29:17.069
of create like a... what's the word i guess like

00:29:17.069 --> 00:29:20.930
a barrier for certain people to improve their

00:29:20.930 --> 00:29:25.710
skills okay so i i definitely agree that we could

00:29:25.710 --> 00:29:28.990
or we should maybe be able to pay people more

00:29:28.990 --> 00:29:31.269
for what they do and i'm not talking only about

00:29:31.269 --> 00:29:33.910
the roots and there is also judges there is many

00:29:33.910 --> 00:29:36.730
many people involved that maybe deserve to get

00:29:36.730 --> 00:29:39.339
more but it all starts from what you you have

00:29:39.339 --> 00:29:41.460
as income, then you can see how much you can

00:29:41.460 --> 00:29:44.880
give as outgoing towards people as well. I believe

00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:48.279
it has grown over the last 17 years already.

00:29:48.579 --> 00:29:51.099
So we're going into the good direction and I

00:29:51.099 --> 00:29:53.240
think we need to continue this. So that's the

00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:55.619
first thing. I definitely agree that people deserve

00:29:55.619 --> 00:30:01.640
to earn fair money. Secondly, do you make it

00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:04.700
or do you create a barrier if you ask people

00:30:04.700 --> 00:30:08.460
to pay for education? I don't think so. As long

00:30:08.460 --> 00:30:12.599
as this helps to make the education qualitative,

00:30:13.099 --> 00:30:15.740
I think it's a win. Because in the end, you make

00:30:15.740 --> 00:30:18.740
sure that people obtain diplomas or experience,

00:30:19.019 --> 00:30:21.900
which will help them to be better in their jobs.

00:30:22.420 --> 00:30:26.619
And in the end, it's not only the IFSC events,

00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:30.039
it's only a small part of the events that happen

00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:32.259
worldwide and the commercial routes. I think

00:30:32.259 --> 00:30:35.299
it's even next to that, a completely different

00:30:35.299 --> 00:30:39.000
story. So I think if you allow people to get

00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:41.740
the experience and the knowledge to do well their

00:30:41.740 --> 00:30:46.200
jobs, then asking, I definitely said a small

00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:48.579
amount or a small contribution. I didn't say

00:30:48.579 --> 00:30:52.200
a huge amount. It should be a bit more than break

00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:55.680
even in the end. And that way, I think we can

00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:57.960
make more courses happen. We can educate more

00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:02.000
people. These people go back to where they live

00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:04.440
and work with more knowledge and more experience.

00:31:05.019 --> 00:31:09.319
So somehow it will allow a cascading effect for

00:31:09.319 --> 00:31:13.119
growing the sport. Sounds good. And then also

00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:15.680
earlier when you were talking about like the

00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:19.160
Eurosport deal for funding, I'm in the US, so

00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:21.339
I don't know too much about that. I still just

00:31:21.339 --> 00:31:25.460
watch it on YouTube. Yeah, I definitely know

00:31:25.460 --> 00:31:28.579
that there was a lot of talk about Eurosport

00:31:28.579 --> 00:31:32.079
and the difficulties it made for some people

00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:37.539
in Europe to watch climbing. What has been the

00:31:37.539 --> 00:31:40.599
outcome of that deal? Do you find that it's been

00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:46.480
positive? Is it easy to watch on the channel?

00:31:46.940 --> 00:31:49.470
Has it increased viewership? Yeah, definitely.

00:31:49.710 --> 00:31:52.910
So in the end, indeed, there has been a lot of

00:31:52.910 --> 00:31:56.410
talks because of Eurosport, we had to geoblock

00:31:56.410 --> 00:31:59.470
the YouTube channel in Europe, which is somehow

00:31:59.470 --> 00:32:02.670
sad because you don't allow your nearest friends

00:32:02.670 --> 00:32:05.589
and family to watch it for free on YouTube and

00:32:05.589 --> 00:32:09.829
you need to pay to view it on Eurosport. But

00:32:09.829 --> 00:32:13.130
in the end, the numbers of people that can watch

00:32:13.130 --> 00:32:17.589
sport climbing on Eurosport are completely different

00:32:17.589 --> 00:32:20.549
to the numbers that we obtain if we use our youtube

00:32:20.549 --> 00:32:25.369
channel so somehow you just give um the sport

00:32:25.369 --> 00:32:31.150
a much wider um coverage or no not coverage i

00:32:31.150 --> 00:32:34.170
mean there's just many more people that are watching

00:32:34.170 --> 00:32:36.089
the sport that are getting interested in the

00:32:36.089 --> 00:32:39.779
sport It's about millions of people. I don't

00:32:39.779 --> 00:32:42.539
have the exact numbers. Fabrizio Rossini from

00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:45.839
the office, the communications, head of communications,

00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:48.240
he knows the exact numbers and the difference

00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:51.880
is just huge. So yeah, I think it definitely

00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:55.740
makes a difference. And yeah, it makes the difference

00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:57.720
that people in the streets nowadays can talk

00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:01.109
about climbing. They know bouldering. They don't

00:33:01.109 --> 00:33:03.410
lead climbing. They definitely know speed climbing,

00:33:03.549 --> 00:33:07.190
which still is the most easy to appreciate, apparently.

00:33:07.809 --> 00:33:10.569
But yeah, it helps. It makes a huge difference.

00:33:10.990 --> 00:33:15.910
Okay, so then I guess going into one of the more...

00:33:16.970 --> 00:33:21.309
harder issues that I had in mind, also sort of

00:33:21.309 --> 00:33:24.410
related to viewership. Do you have any thoughts

00:33:24.410 --> 00:33:27.809
on some of the biggest athletes taking a step

00:33:27.809 --> 00:33:31.130
back from competitions after the Olympics? I

00:33:31.130 --> 00:33:33.970
think like Janja and Brooke said that they might

00:33:33.970 --> 00:33:37.569
be going to fewer World Cups this year. Is this

00:33:37.569 --> 00:33:40.369
like concerning to you that a lot of the big

00:33:40.369 --> 00:33:43.619
names are? stepping away. Please excuse this

00:33:43.619 --> 00:33:45.599
brief intermission, but if you're interested

00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:47.640
in deleted scenes from this episode where we

00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:50.079
talk about the unexpected politics that come

00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:52.180
with the role, for example, with dealing with

00:33:52.180 --> 00:33:54.680
the Ukraine war, do consider helping support

00:33:54.680 --> 00:33:57.779
this podcast on Patreon. Some other perks include

00:33:57.779 --> 00:34:00.359
a membership pin shipped to you after two months,

00:34:00.579 --> 00:34:03.279
prioritized guest questions, or the ability to

00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:06.259
submit video questions and a board to come. The

00:34:06.259 --> 00:34:08.320
proceeds go back into the podcast to help me

00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:10.519
break even, and they help me improve the experience

00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:13.639
of the guests if you'd like to help out non -monetarily

00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:16.639
liking commenting and sharing helps a great deal

00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:19.579
as well back to the show first of all i think

00:34:19.579 --> 00:34:22.559
that we really cannot imagine the pressure that

00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:24.960
the athletes at the olympic games they live and

00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:27.420
i think we need to respect them for that we need

00:34:27.420 --> 00:34:31.179
to understand that after this intense build -up

00:34:31.179 --> 00:34:33.820
towards the olympic games they tend to need a

00:34:33.820 --> 00:34:36.719
rest not only for their body but also for their

00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:39.840
mind So it's a logical thing that happens in

00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:42.599
all sports, all Olympic sports. You see that

00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:45.380
people have this kind of build -up towards a

00:34:45.380 --> 00:34:47.920
peak of four years and then afterwards there

00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:51.179
is quite a slowdown in performance and also in

00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:54.539
participation. So yeah, we can only respect that

00:34:54.539 --> 00:34:59.619
and that's what happens. I think a solution for

00:34:59.619 --> 00:35:02.800
this issue, if you call it an issue, is having

00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:06.280
a good long -term calendar. where somehow we

00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:09.420
plan our events also accordingly, that we include

00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:11.880
the fact that indeed an Olympic Games is a high

00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:13.860
point in the career of an athlete. Sometimes

00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:16.059
they even build up eight years towards it or

00:35:16.059 --> 00:35:20.280
they dream from it if they are born. So it's

00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:22.900
a high point, definitely. And we need to follow

00:35:22.900 --> 00:35:25.739
this rhythm, I think, in the calendar that we

00:35:25.739 --> 00:35:28.159
make, a long -term calendar on all levels, on

00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:31.320
the continental level, at the world level. So

00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:35.400
planning our events in a smart way. Not only

00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:37.440
within the Olympic year, because in the Olympic

00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:39.940
year, indeed, last year we had the European Championship

00:35:39.940 --> 00:35:42.920
only a few weeks after the Olympic Games. It

00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:45.739
wasn't the smartest move maybe, but it was still

00:35:45.739 --> 00:35:48.420
a successful event. But maybe we could have planned

00:35:48.420 --> 00:35:51.079
it differently and we could have had other champions

00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:55.260
be participating as well. So yeah, making a good

00:35:55.260 --> 00:35:57.699
long -term calendar in the year itself, but also

00:35:57.699 --> 00:36:01.000
over the four years might be a solution. And

00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:04.590
then secondly, I think also... if we make sure

00:36:04.590 --> 00:36:06.449
that our own events, the World Championship,

00:36:06.809 --> 00:36:09.550
the World Cups and being the overall winner of

00:36:09.550 --> 00:36:11.730
the World Cup or being the number one of that

00:36:11.730 --> 00:36:15.530
week or of that month of that year, somehow if

00:36:15.530 --> 00:36:19.690
this has a value or more of a value, then I think

00:36:19.690 --> 00:36:22.730
also athletes will plan accordingly and make

00:36:22.730 --> 00:36:27.050
sure that they build up within their full program

00:36:27.050 --> 00:36:31.010
towards these kind of events. Yeah, how do you

00:36:31.010 --> 00:36:35.170
think... we can build more value into winning

00:36:35.170 --> 00:36:37.650
a world cup or the world champs. Cause I know

00:36:37.650 --> 00:36:39.989
a lot of people have mentioned that world cups

00:36:39.989 --> 00:36:41.949
used to feel like the biggest thing or world

00:36:41.949 --> 00:36:43.690
champs used to feel like the biggest thing that

00:36:43.690 --> 00:36:46.690
people, um, really want to strive for. And then

00:36:46.690 --> 00:36:48.869
since the Olympics have come into play, it just

00:36:48.869 --> 00:36:51.230
doesn't really seem like people care about it

00:36:51.230 --> 00:36:55.619
anymore. I think in many sports, the Olympic

00:36:55.619 --> 00:36:58.159
Games are simply the biggest goal to achieve.

00:36:58.260 --> 00:37:00.559
It's so unique. You can only have it every four

00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:02.940
years. You need to be a selected sport to be

00:37:02.940 --> 00:37:05.440
part of it as well. So this value of the Olympic

00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:09.980
Games, it's clearly unbeatable somehow. But then

00:37:09.980 --> 00:37:13.420
still, our own events, the World Championship

00:37:13.420 --> 00:37:16.440
and then the World Cups, how do you give them

00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:20.489
value? The easy answer is the prize money. Of

00:37:20.489 --> 00:37:22.789
course, by growing prize money, by making sure

00:37:22.789 --> 00:37:24.949
that people get also prize money for the overall

00:37:24.949 --> 00:37:28.269
title or maybe for being number one. But also,

00:37:28.349 --> 00:37:32.030
if we make sure that the visibility of our events,

00:37:32.230 --> 00:37:34.190
that the branding of our events, the marketing

00:37:34.190 --> 00:37:37.190
around this, give more value to these events,

00:37:37.269 --> 00:37:39.829
then somehow it's also more interesting for sponsors

00:37:39.829 --> 00:37:43.019
to have athletes that are. performing well at

00:37:43.019 --> 00:37:44.940
world cup events and maybe they don't manage

00:37:44.940 --> 00:37:47.699
to be the olympic champion but they are performing

00:37:47.699 --> 00:37:50.300
at at world cup events and that way they are

00:37:50.300 --> 00:37:53.280
interesting persons so it's not only directly

00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:56.119
in our own event with the prize money but it's

00:37:56.119 --> 00:38:00.519
also by making the image of our events a better

00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:03.739
image or a more interesting image that the value

00:38:03.739 --> 00:38:07.559
for sponsors gets bigger and and that way for

00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:09.719
an athlete it becomes more interesting to be

00:38:10.170 --> 00:38:13.650
a world cup winner because yeah it makes them

00:38:13.650 --> 00:38:16.409
possible to to make a living out of their passion

00:38:16.409 --> 00:38:19.289
being a competition climber okay yeah that makes

00:38:19.289 --> 00:38:22.530
sense yeah definitely adding exposure um would

00:38:22.530 --> 00:38:26.570
help as well in terms of like non -immediate

00:38:26.570 --> 00:38:30.710
monetary funding in terms of prize money Okay,

00:38:30.829 --> 00:38:34.349
so next issue I wanted to get into, this is about

00:38:34.349 --> 00:38:39.010
like the new rule limiting participants per country

00:38:39.010 --> 00:38:43.190
from like bigger climbing federations. What are

00:38:43.190 --> 00:38:45.469
your thoughts on that? A lot of people don't

00:38:45.469 --> 00:38:50.050
necessarily believe in like wanting to just have

00:38:50.050 --> 00:38:53.289
more climbers come in just for the sake of them

00:38:53.289 --> 00:38:57.139
getting like experience. It's a very difficult

00:38:57.139 --> 00:38:59.800
exercise to make. In the end, we want indeed

00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:02.420
the best climbers to be able to participate at

00:39:02.420 --> 00:39:05.420
the highest level competitions. But on the other

00:39:05.420 --> 00:39:07.820
side, we also want to make it possible for all

00:39:07.820 --> 00:39:10.019
national federations to grow, to get experience,

00:39:10.300 --> 00:39:14.880
to be at the highest level of competitions and

00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:17.940
to get connected with their NOCs, for example.

00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:22.099
I mean, their National Olympic Committees. And

00:39:22.099 --> 00:39:24.960
so it's a very difficult exercise to be made.

00:39:25.469 --> 00:39:28.429
But even before this year, there was already

00:39:28.429 --> 00:39:31.250
a quota for many countries. There were already

00:39:31.250 --> 00:39:34.869
difficulties. I believe that, okay, clearly for

00:39:34.869 --> 00:39:37.829
now, Japan is the clear example as being the

00:39:37.829 --> 00:39:40.730
ones who get the biggest disadvantage of the

00:39:40.730 --> 00:39:43.690
new rule. But I think in the big countries like

00:39:43.690 --> 00:39:49.860
France, like Slovenia. There is issues with people

00:39:49.860 --> 00:39:52.619
being very performant that don't manage to get

00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:54.980
into the competitions that they would like to

00:39:54.980 --> 00:39:57.860
participate in because of quota. I remember also

00:39:57.860 --> 00:40:00.280
last year at the Olympic qualifying series, the

00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:04.659
fight between the three French athletes for the

00:40:04.659 --> 00:40:07.280
two sports. So there is also at the Olympic level,

00:40:07.380 --> 00:40:11.880
there is this quota problem. So it happens. Now,

00:40:12.019 --> 00:40:15.639
what is the solution for it? I don't know yet.

00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:17.699
It's an exercise that we need to make with the

00:40:17.699 --> 00:40:19.800
national federations, with the commissions. We

00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:21.780
need to have discussions about, okay, how do

00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:25.480
we want to proceed with this? And it's all about

00:40:25.480 --> 00:40:27.960
this event model that I was talking about before

00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:30.440
as well. You need a pyramid with a world championship

00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:33.820
as main event at IFC level, world cups, you have

00:40:33.820 --> 00:40:35.920
continental cups, regional cups, and how you

00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:38.179
build up towards that. That's to be discussed.

00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:43.010
In the end, do we really need to have... full

00:40:43.010 --> 00:40:44.989
quota for each and every national federation

00:40:44.989 --> 00:40:47.829
in the world championship or at the world cup

00:40:47.829 --> 00:40:51.530
level in the future it's a question mark i don't

00:40:51.530 --> 00:40:53.550
have the answer we could also go to a system

00:40:53.550 --> 00:40:55.869
where the world ranking defines who can participate

00:40:55.869 --> 00:41:00.110
in the um in the highest level events but then

00:41:00.110 --> 00:41:02.130
you need a world ranking system which allows

00:41:02.130 --> 00:41:05.510
people to get enough points to reach this level

00:41:05.510 --> 00:41:07.510
of those who are participating in the highest

00:41:07.510 --> 00:41:11.219
level competitions so it's a full puzzle that

00:41:11.219 --> 00:41:13.380
you need to make and it's not an easy exercise

00:41:13.380 --> 00:41:17.320
and i think we just need to have this this discussion

00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:19.880
and it will take some more time and this year

00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:23.280
there has been made a choice it's definitely

00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:26.219
a pity for some of the best climbers of the world

00:41:26.219 --> 00:41:30.639
but yeah we have to discuss this further more

00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:33.639
and see what what the best solutions seem to

00:41:33.639 --> 00:41:37.840
be and try out Okay, so other than that, the

00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:41.039
next issue I think people are always talking

00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:48.679
about is the Red S policy. I know that the new

00:41:48.679 --> 00:41:52.039
policy went into effect earlier in the season.

00:41:52.940 --> 00:41:56.199
How do you think it has been working? Do you

00:41:56.199 --> 00:41:59.019
know if people have actually been flagged for

00:41:59.019 --> 00:42:02.420
it or if any action has been taken place? Obviously

00:42:02.420 --> 00:42:05.280
not like specific names, but just whether it's

00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:08.960
really been implemented. So I think that IFC

00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:12.800
has been a pioneer in this approach. So we're

00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:15.300
trying something new. And as everything that

00:42:15.300 --> 00:42:18.139
is new, you might have childhood diseases in

00:42:18.139 --> 00:42:20.639
it. So I won't say that it's a perfect system.

00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:24.300
But I think somehow what the new approach to

00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:28.760
the Red S issue allowed is there is more open

00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:33.400
talks about it. Definitely, there is more consciousness

00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:36.179
about the topic. And I think also with the athletes,

00:42:36.340 --> 00:42:38.780
it's become less of a taboo to talk with it.

00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:41.300
I think more and more national federations are

00:42:41.300 --> 00:42:47.940
now having a medical person. nominated to do

00:42:47.940 --> 00:42:49.860
the follow -up of their athletes there has been

00:42:49.860 --> 00:42:52.659
talks with athletes that are maybe becoming into

00:42:52.659 --> 00:42:56.519
the danger zone so i think that's very positive

00:42:56.519 --> 00:43:01.340
evolution for the sport so it's it's less of

00:43:01.340 --> 00:43:04.460
a taboo there is clear talks with athletes about

00:43:04.460 --> 00:43:08.000
how they are dealing with these kind of topics

00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:12.480
and i Also believe that at World Cup level, there

00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:15.860
has been tests done, I think, with over 300 athletes,

00:43:16.039 --> 00:43:19.280
300 tests last year. There has been talks with

00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:22.800
specific athletes that are maybe slightly between

00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:27.420
the green and the orange or that are getting

00:43:27.420 --> 00:43:30.519
into the danger zone, but not there yet. So I

00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:33.039
definitely think that we are making huge steps

00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:35.400
in the good direction. But I also believe that

00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:38.300
we need to continue evaluating the system. in

00:43:38.300 --> 00:43:40.059
contact with the athletes through the athletes

00:43:40.059 --> 00:43:42.800
commission or even each athlete every athlete

00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:45.539
that wants to talk about it should be and is

00:43:45.539 --> 00:43:48.159
probably also invited by the medical commission

00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:51.699
to talk with them we should talk with coaches

00:43:51.699 --> 00:43:54.300
we should talk with medical experts i think the

00:43:54.300 --> 00:43:56.739
medical commission is doing a really good job

00:43:56.739 --> 00:44:00.179
here in europe we also started a health and safeguarding

00:44:00.179 --> 00:44:02.219
commission which focuses more on the prevention

00:44:02.219 --> 00:44:06.869
side so that we can educate more coaches and

00:44:06.869 --> 00:44:10.429
youth athletes and athletes widely about this

00:44:10.429 --> 00:44:13.269
topic. So I think attacking the prevention side

00:44:13.269 --> 00:44:16.710
of it is very important as well. For example,

00:44:16.829 --> 00:44:19.590
at the European Championship last year in the

00:44:19.590 --> 00:44:22.949
Athletes Forum, we had a presentation made by

00:44:22.949 --> 00:44:25.909
the Health and Safeguarding Commission where

00:44:25.909 --> 00:44:31.320
there was a testimony made by Beth Rolland. about

00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:35.840
how she lived her climbing career and on this

00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:38.300
topic. And there was also an intervention from

00:44:38.300 --> 00:44:43.320
psychologist Mina Markovic who clearly has competition

00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:46.639
experience and could talk from her own experiences

00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:49.659
as well. So I think these kind of interactions

00:44:49.659 --> 00:44:52.760
with athletes, they are really rich and that's

00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:56.289
the way we need to continue moving forward. So

00:44:56.289 --> 00:44:59.070
yeah, Red S, it's a very difficult topic. I think

00:44:59.070 --> 00:45:01.710
IFC is pioneering it. We should be proud of what

00:45:01.710 --> 00:45:03.809
we are doing, but we should be critical about

00:45:03.809 --> 00:45:06.590
how we keep pushing it to become better and better.

00:45:06.809 --> 00:45:10.570
That's shortly my opinion on this topic. I had

00:45:10.570 --> 00:45:14.050
recently interviewed someone who mentioned that

00:45:14.050 --> 00:45:20.070
there's no policy in the youth. uh youth climbing

00:45:20.070 --> 00:45:23.670
um and that that's maybe like an important part

00:45:23.670 --> 00:45:28.789
to consider because like a lot of these um habits

00:45:28.789 --> 00:45:31.750
and like eating habits and eating disorders take

00:45:31.750 --> 00:45:34.969
place when they're growing up and it's not like

00:45:34.969 --> 00:45:37.670
it's something that develops once they've like

00:45:37.670 --> 00:45:41.389
gotten older um it starts earlier than that um

00:45:41.389 --> 00:45:45.059
so do you have any any thoughts there Yeah, it's

00:45:45.059 --> 00:45:47.539
very difficult to put a policy in place for the

00:45:47.539 --> 00:45:50.760
youth categories because you need somehow comparable

00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:53.920
data and you need to make it fair for each and

00:45:53.920 --> 00:45:56.460
everyone, no matter where you live, et cetera,

00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:58.880
et cetera. So it's really a difficult question

00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:01.340
to put this in place for the youth. But I think

00:46:01.340 --> 00:46:03.679
somehow for the youth, it's even more important

00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:06.239
to have the preventive approach and it's by education.

00:46:06.940 --> 00:46:08.920
It's educating the coaches. It's making sure

00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:11.119
that each and everyone takes also his responsibility.

00:46:11.300 --> 00:46:13.940
It's national federations, coaches, parents,

00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:16.659
the people around those athletes that somehow

00:46:16.659 --> 00:46:20.400
create the circumstances in which they grow.

00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:24.159
And it's also by making it no taboo anymore that

00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:27.519
we somehow allow it to be less of an issue. So

00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:32.159
yeah, I think rather than seeking for the policy

00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:35.440
for the youth events, it's about making sure

00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:38.559
that we do this. preventive approach and of course

00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:41.059
if we manage to put a policy in place for our

00:46:41.059 --> 00:46:44.960
our youth events then we will do it but i think

00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:46.800
it's more important to work on the preventive

00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:49.940
prevention side yeah no i think that makes sense

00:46:49.940 --> 00:46:53.199
um yeah because i guess like in terms of like

00:46:53.199 --> 00:46:56.039
youth athletes i don't know when they're like

00:46:56.039 --> 00:46:59.119
growing at such different speeds at like every

00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:02.980
age it's like kind of hard to make um an overall

00:47:02.980 --> 00:47:06.099
like call in terms of what's considered healthy

00:47:06.099 --> 00:47:08.599
or not. Yeah. And they have their growth spurt

00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:11.099
at different moments. They have different morphology

00:47:11.099 --> 00:47:14.300
from the basis. Also, they are very vulnerable

00:47:14.300 --> 00:47:18.239
to being, how you say it, so the moment they

00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:21.420
get a stamp on their forehead, it's really difficult

00:47:21.420 --> 00:47:24.480
for them to cope with. So we need to be really

00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:27.059
careful with the youth athletes and we need to

00:47:27.059 --> 00:47:30.659
approach them in a very smart way. Whereas at

00:47:30.659 --> 00:47:33.320
adult level, they are more grown up. It's more

00:47:33.320 --> 00:47:37.619
stable. Normally, it should already somehow be

00:47:37.619 --> 00:47:42.119
all arranged. But then still, if there is red

00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:44.460
flags appearing, then we should act. So I think

00:47:44.460 --> 00:47:48.760
having a more aggressive approach towards adults,

00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:52.360
it's a logical thing. Whereas for youth, really,

00:47:52.420 --> 00:47:54.739
we need to be cautious and we need to, really,

00:47:54.940 --> 00:47:57.000
all of us, we need to take our responsibility

00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:01.320
and do it in a healthy way. Knowing that in the

00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:03.440
end, the long term effects are more important

00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:07.199
than the short term metals. Yeah, makes sense.

00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:10.300
And yeah, I think also just like getting rid

00:48:10.300 --> 00:48:13.780
of the taboo and like talking about it more makes

00:48:13.780 --> 00:48:16.340
people feel more comfortable with like coming

00:48:16.340 --> 00:48:18.079
forward with their stories or coming forward

00:48:18.079 --> 00:48:20.840
if they do think they have an issue. So yeah,

00:48:20.940 --> 00:48:24.179
I think that makes sense. So the last hot topic

00:48:24.179 --> 00:48:27.199
issue that I wanted to get into was about the

00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:30.260
Neon Beach Games. I know there was a lot of talk

00:48:30.260 --> 00:48:34.420
about that in the past few years. So yeah, I

00:48:34.420 --> 00:48:36.039
think there were some people who were pretty

00:48:36.039 --> 00:48:38.500
upset about it. And in general, what are your

00:48:38.500 --> 00:48:41.659
thoughts on hosting events in countries that

00:48:41.659 --> 00:48:44.989
are sort of controversial? okay so first of all

00:48:44.989 --> 00:48:48.070
the Neon games indeed we have had them for two

00:48:48.070 --> 00:48:50.110
years in a row and there was some controversy

00:48:50.110 --> 00:48:53.769
about it clearly now this year the Neon games

00:48:53.769 --> 00:48:56.150
aren't on the schedule anymore so somehow this

00:48:56.150 --> 00:49:00.090
simplifies the topic that specific topic but

00:49:00.090 --> 00:49:03.929
in general if there is controversy about competitions

00:49:03.929 --> 00:49:07.469
happening in one or a specific country I think

00:49:07.469 --> 00:49:09.909
most important to keep in mind is that somehow

00:49:09.909 --> 00:49:13.190
if IFC organizes a competition, it is always

00:49:13.190 --> 00:49:15.590
together with the National Federation, which

00:49:15.590 --> 00:49:19.170
is aligned with the values that we all share

00:49:19.170 --> 00:49:21.650
within the climbing community. And so if we do

00:49:21.650 --> 00:49:23.469
it together with the National Federation, then

00:49:23.469 --> 00:49:25.550
this means also that they organize it with the

00:49:25.550 --> 00:49:28.769
spirit of mind and they somehow also share these.

00:49:29.340 --> 00:49:31.960
uh values with the the audience that will be

00:49:31.960 --> 00:49:34.639
there the way they organize it and somehow it

00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:37.679
even helps us to promote the values of of climbing

00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:41.300
and of our community so uh on in general i would

00:49:41.300 --> 00:49:44.219
say that for the neon games we won't have the

00:49:44.219 --> 00:49:46.860
controversy anymore because it's not on the schedule

00:49:46.860 --> 00:49:49.179
anymore and even in the future these kind of

00:49:49.179 --> 00:49:51.679
things happen i hope really that all people Keep

00:49:51.679 --> 00:49:53.820
in mind that, yeah, we're a climbing family,

00:49:53.980 --> 00:49:56.639
a climbing community. We all share the same values

00:49:56.639 --> 00:50:00.960
and it's by being present in other places where

00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:03.440
there is maybe other opinions that we at least

00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:06.059
show the opinions we have and we can show also

00:50:06.059 --> 00:50:09.300
the way we want to live in this world. So I think

00:50:09.300 --> 00:50:11.860
it's only beneficial to be anywhere in the world.

00:50:13.099 --> 00:50:17.159
So that's my basic idea on this topic. Perfect.

00:50:17.179 --> 00:50:20.239
Thank you for that. Okay, so I think those were

00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:23.340
most of the issues that I wanted to cover. Now

00:50:23.340 --> 00:50:25.739
going into some of the Discord questions that

00:50:25.739 --> 00:50:28.739
came through. Some of these will be a little

00:50:28.739 --> 00:50:32.599
bit more chill, I guess. So no worries there.

00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:36.260
The first one, what changes do you think we'll

00:50:36.260 --> 00:50:38.840
see to World Cup formats as the sport grows?

00:50:40.380 --> 00:50:42.579
You said that it wasn't going to be an easy question.

00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:49.039
Less political, I guess, maybe. Yeah, less political,

00:50:49.119 --> 00:50:52.960
maybe. But it's hard to look in the future. So,

00:50:53.059 --> 00:50:55.800
yeah, I don't know. It all depends on how we

00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:57.980
want to grow our sport. As mentioned somewhere

00:50:57.980 --> 00:51:00.559
before in the interview, I believe that maybe

00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:02.800
it is an option in the future to have a World

00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:05.219
Cup participation based upon world ranking and

00:51:05.219 --> 00:51:07.849
not necessarily a national quota. I guess, like,

00:51:07.909 --> 00:51:10.329
what does that entail if it's just based on world

00:51:10.329 --> 00:51:13.289
ranking? So, for example, if we really manage

00:51:13.289 --> 00:51:16.190
to put up the best show, if we only invite the

00:51:16.190 --> 00:51:20.289
80 best of the world, then somehow we limit ourselves.

00:51:20.389 --> 00:51:22.710
We cannot allow each and every national federation

00:51:22.710 --> 00:51:24.909
to have participants there. It's a bit like in

00:51:24.909 --> 00:51:27.530
tennis, the Grand Slams. It's only the best ones

00:51:27.530 --> 00:51:31.179
who reach the top tier of the... of the the event

00:51:31.179 --> 00:51:34.079
automatically okay you can have people through

00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:37.079
qualification maybe some someone get into the

00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:39.760
the final weeks of the grand slams as well the

00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:42.860
same kind of scheme could work for climbing but

00:51:42.860 --> 00:51:45.239
it's we need to discuss it really well and i

00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:46.900
don't think it will happen in the first four

00:51:46.900 --> 00:51:49.940
years it's a discussion that need to be had but

00:51:49.940 --> 00:51:52.659
that's somehow the qualification to system towards

00:51:52.659 --> 00:51:55.860
our own events that might be a change then i

00:51:55.860 --> 00:52:00.039
think uh if we really talk disciplines speed

00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:04.860
and lead are more or less stable disciplines

00:52:04.860 --> 00:52:07.579
but on the bouldering level clearly this year

00:52:07.579 --> 00:52:10.659
there will be the point system applied and we

00:52:10.659 --> 00:52:13.519
need to evaluate that and see how that will develop

00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:20.400
so those kind of changes it's minor changes I

00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:22.519
think in the future because the disciplines they

00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:26.980
have their history already but we need to tweak

00:52:26.980 --> 00:52:30.949
them slightly maybe And of course, para climbing,

00:52:31.150 --> 00:52:33.030
that's a big question, how that will develop

00:52:33.030 --> 00:52:36.510
over the upcoming years. What will the impact

00:52:36.510 --> 00:52:40.989
be of the Paralympic categories? Because of course,

00:52:40.989 --> 00:52:43.849
we don't want to lose any category that we have,

00:52:43.949 --> 00:52:46.789
because I think it's a really rich family of

00:52:46.789 --> 00:52:52.150
people inside the climbing community. So we need

00:52:52.150 --> 00:52:54.570
to anticipate as well, and we need to work really

00:52:54.570 --> 00:52:57.650
well to make sure that each and every... climber

00:52:57.650 --> 00:52:59.869
who has climbing in his heart can continue to

00:52:59.869 --> 00:53:02.949
compete if he wants to yeah I think when you

00:53:02.949 --> 00:53:05.030
mentioned like the tennis stuff I just remembered

00:53:05.030 --> 00:53:09.070
I watched like some random YouTube video about

00:53:09.070 --> 00:53:14.690
like tennis athletes and participation and funding

00:53:14.690 --> 00:53:18.409
in terms of career and I just remember saying

00:53:18.409 --> 00:53:21.030
that I mean obviously in tennis if you're like

00:53:21.030 --> 00:53:22.969
one of the top players you make like millions

00:53:22.969 --> 00:53:27.159
and millions of dollars but For anyone who's

00:53:27.159 --> 00:53:31.039
like not at that like most elite level, like

00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:33.860
the top, I don't know, 10 people or something

00:53:33.860 --> 00:53:36.719
like that. It's just like a really expensive

00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:39.760
sport to like participate in and there's like

00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:42.920
no money there. So yeah, I guess I'm not really

00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:45.219
sure if that's something I would want to do.

00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:47.860
Me neither. And that's really a discussion we

00:53:47.860 --> 00:53:50.199
need to have. We need to evaluate the options.

00:53:51.449 --> 00:53:54.570
Somehow it is a reality as well that sport isn't

00:53:54.570 --> 00:53:59.849
necessarily such an example. We have in Belgium

00:53:59.849 --> 00:54:03.429
an ex -Olympic champion, world record holder

00:54:03.429 --> 00:54:09.050
in the 100 meters breaststroke, who now is selling

00:54:09.050 --> 00:54:13.610
shoes as his work, day -to -day work. Another

00:54:13.610 --> 00:54:16.650
one who's coming from judo, who made bronze medal

00:54:16.650 --> 00:54:20.880
in the end of the 90s. He's now a police officer.

00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:25.219
So in the end, getting rich from sport, it's

00:54:25.219 --> 00:54:28.340
really difficult and it's somehow for the happy

00:54:28.340 --> 00:54:31.340
few. But if with the IFSC, we can manage to make

00:54:31.340 --> 00:54:34.599
a structure where we have more happy fews and

00:54:34.599 --> 00:54:38.179
where overall the full scope of our organization

00:54:38.179 --> 00:54:40.480
with the route setters, with the judges, people

00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:44.590
are... able to at least participate in a good

00:54:44.590 --> 00:54:47.110
way in the sport and somehow make a living out

00:54:47.110 --> 00:54:50.570
of it or at least it's a healthy way of living

00:54:50.570 --> 00:54:54.829
that would be a good thing but yeah it's impossible

00:54:54.829 --> 00:55:01.190
to make it for all athletes uh easy to to earn

00:55:01.190 --> 00:55:03.230
a lot of money that's that's impossible but we

00:55:03.230 --> 00:55:05.889
need to make the best structure possible and

00:55:05.889 --> 00:55:08.130
we need to continue evaluating the structure

00:55:08.130 --> 00:55:10.510
we need not to be afraid of changing it over

00:55:10.510 --> 00:55:14.469
time neither but it depends on on the full the

00:55:14.469 --> 00:55:17.190
full puzzle in the end another possibility that

00:55:17.190 --> 00:55:19.889
people throw out there is like moving away from

00:55:19.889 --> 00:55:22.190
national teams towards something instead like

00:55:22.190 --> 00:55:25.909
sponsor teams like they do in f1 um what are

00:55:25.909 --> 00:55:28.519
your thoughts on that of course the national

00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:33.039
team it it gives also a certain value being able

00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:35.260
to participate for your national team in the

00:55:35.260 --> 00:55:38.179
end going back to tennis it's quite funny in

00:55:38.179 --> 00:55:40.659
tennis indeed you have the pro system with the

00:55:40.659 --> 00:55:42.719
individual athlete but in the end they also have

00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:44.699
the fat cup where the national teams compete

00:55:44.699 --> 00:55:47.679
and it's somehow a smaller kind of competition

00:55:47.679 --> 00:55:50.659
uh or even football where you have the commercial

00:55:50.659 --> 00:55:52.960
teams and then there is still the the world cup

00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:56.519
every four years There are so many different

00:55:56.519 --> 00:56:00.559
ways of making the structure around the sport.

00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:02.579
And I think we just need to have good discussions

00:56:02.579 --> 00:56:05.599
with the national federations prepared by the

00:56:05.599 --> 00:56:08.199
office with the different commissions. Clearly,

00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:10.980
we have to have a marketing view on this. So

00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:13.300
the marketing commission needs to watch this

00:56:13.300 --> 00:56:16.579
as well. The athletes need to say what they believe

00:56:16.579 --> 00:56:19.699
is best. And together we need to come to the

00:56:19.699 --> 00:56:22.019
best solution and indeed inspiring us in the

00:56:22.019 --> 00:56:24.639
other sports. It's a good thing. But in the end,

00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:29.099
I don't think there is a one size fits all idea

00:56:29.099 --> 00:56:34.000
or we will need to reinvent ourselves more than

00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:39.059
once and just make good choices based upon the

00:56:39.059 --> 00:56:43.079
time context that exists. Okay, last question.

00:56:43.980 --> 00:56:48.079
Much more about your own climbing. What are your

00:56:48.079 --> 00:56:50.780
climbing preferences, plastic versus rock and

00:56:50.780 --> 00:56:54.349
your favorite climbing style? Okay. Great, great

00:56:54.349 --> 00:56:57.769
question. My climbing preference clearly is with

00:56:57.769 --> 00:57:01.250
the rocks. I have spent too much time on plastic

00:57:01.250 --> 00:57:04.190
as a coach, as a climber, as a route setter.

00:57:04.309 --> 00:57:08.730
And somehow right now I'm climbing. Unfortunately,

00:57:08.769 --> 00:57:11.710
I'm climbing less. I have a family. I'm doing

00:57:11.710 --> 00:57:14.530
a bit more of the political work. And in Belgium,

00:57:14.550 --> 00:57:17.409
it's harder to get to the rocks also. So once

00:57:17.409 --> 00:57:20.869
corona happened, I somehow stopped a bit climbing.

00:57:21.530 --> 00:57:24.269
Right now I'm climbing six to ten times a year

00:57:24.269 --> 00:57:30.150
only. So yeah. Whoa, like total. Yeah, it's not

00:57:30.150 --> 00:57:34.190
enough. It's not enough. But what I miss is clearly

00:57:34.190 --> 00:57:38.570
the rocks and even more so Fontainebleau. It's

00:57:38.570 --> 00:57:42.510
only three hours and a half driving from where

00:57:42.510 --> 00:57:45.730
I live. And I used to spend 14 weekends in my

00:57:45.730 --> 00:57:49.420
best years. uh in fontainebleau or i definitely

00:57:49.420 --> 00:57:53.820
love catalonia and siurana specifically um as

00:57:53.820 --> 00:57:56.920
as very nice places to go even though i must

00:57:56.920 --> 00:58:00.679
say that the granite from for example uh scandinavia

00:58:00.679 --> 00:58:04.300
or uh or in austria i also like so i like the

00:58:04.300 --> 00:58:08.239
diversity of climbing and i mostly miss the rocks

00:58:08.239 --> 00:58:11.860
and the outdoors even though of course competition

00:58:11.860 --> 00:58:15.179
climbing the show the the emotions that are there

00:58:15.530 --> 00:58:19.269
it's nice but i grow myself too old for participating

00:58:19.269 --> 00:58:23.329
that's 100 clear so you never did any like competing

00:58:23.329 --> 00:58:27.250
yourself oh yeah i used to do some competitions

00:58:27.250 --> 00:58:29.989
once i started climbing of course i did some

00:58:29.989 --> 00:58:32.570
recreational events i did some national events

00:58:32.570 --> 00:58:36.530
belgian cups some belgium championship even but

00:58:36.530 --> 00:58:40.050
i was i was i started too late and i was already

00:58:40.050 --> 00:58:44.469
too much focused on coaching others so Luckily,

00:58:44.469 --> 00:58:47.849
I did do some nice performances on the rocks.

00:58:48.070 --> 00:58:51.530
But competition -wise, I was only at national

00:58:51.530 --> 00:58:56.090
level. Only, okay. Belgium is a small country,

00:58:56.170 --> 00:59:02.329
you know. Sure, yeah. How do you feel about competition

00:59:02.329 --> 00:59:05.110
-style moves now? Do you ever do those kinds

00:59:05.110 --> 00:59:09.010
of climbs? It's very interesting to see how it

00:59:09.010 --> 00:59:13.460
evolves. And of course... In the past, some people

00:59:13.460 --> 00:59:16.280
were really strong and others were not. But nowadays,

00:59:16.440 --> 00:59:20.539
all are strong and you still need to give them

00:59:20.539 --> 00:59:22.739
the challenges that they cannot make. You don't

00:59:22.739 --> 00:59:25.039
want all people to succeed in everything. So

00:59:25.039 --> 00:59:28.099
I understand that we had a tendency to introduce

00:59:28.099 --> 00:59:30.659
these kind of moves and they are definitely spectacular.

00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:34.639
They are skills that... that are interesting

00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:37.340
to develop and the funny thing is that I still

00:59:37.340 --> 00:59:39.639
notice that all the strong competition climbers

00:59:39.639 --> 00:59:42.900
are also amongst the really strong rock climbers

00:59:42.900 --> 00:59:45.719
so it's not that there is a complete difference

00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:49.059
between competition style and the outdoor style

00:59:49.059 --> 00:59:52.380
for example and I understand that some people

00:59:52.380 --> 00:59:58.199
are a bit how would you say that it's not homesick

00:59:58.199 --> 01:00:01.079
but they want to go back a bit to the old style

01:00:01.710 --> 01:00:03.849
But yeah, if you want to climb old style, you

01:00:03.849 --> 01:00:07.050
can still have old style once in a while, but

01:00:07.050 --> 01:00:11.010
it's good to have a diversity and it's a natural

01:00:11.010 --> 01:00:13.889
evolution and we cannot stop it necessarily.

01:00:14.210 --> 01:00:16.489
But what is important, I think, is that we somehow

01:00:16.489 --> 01:00:19.929
maintain indeed diversity and we don't make,

01:00:20.070 --> 01:00:23.989
not every competition need to be the same style.

01:00:24.969 --> 01:00:28.269
Every week the same would be a bit boring as

01:00:28.269 --> 01:00:31.739
well. Is there like a favorite competition style

01:00:31.739 --> 01:00:36.219
move that you like to do, like climb on? When

01:00:36.219 --> 01:00:39.300
I was actively climbing and setting, I just like

01:00:39.300 --> 01:00:43.500
to put in dynos, of course. Nowadays, it's so

01:00:43.500 --> 01:00:48.219
diverse and I wouldn't say there is one specific

01:00:48.219 --> 01:00:52.150
one that I would choose. all right cool um well

01:00:52.150 --> 01:00:55.530
i think that's all the questions i had then um

01:00:55.530 --> 01:00:58.630
thanks for joining me today is there any like

01:00:58.630 --> 01:01:00.769
last minute words words of wisdom that you want

01:01:00.769 --> 01:01:03.489
to get out there words of wisdom i'm too young

01:01:03.489 --> 01:01:08.780
to be uh white maybe no um definitely i i believe

01:01:08.780 --> 01:01:11.599
climbing is a really beautiful sport with lots

01:01:11.599 --> 01:01:14.000
of beautiful people being involved and if we

01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:16.739
can manage to all work together cooperate and

01:01:16.739 --> 01:01:19.059
to help each other to continue the growth that

01:01:19.059 --> 01:01:21.900
we are living now keeping true to our values

01:01:21.900 --> 01:01:24.840
i i really hope that that can happen and if that

01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:27.679
happens then probably we can indeed make better

01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:30.519
worlds through sport climbing which is the vision

01:01:30.519 --> 01:01:32.619
of the ifsc and which which is a vision that

01:01:32.619 --> 01:01:36.360
i align with a lot so That's just built all together

01:01:36.360 --> 01:01:40.280
on this nice port. And do you want to let people

01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:42.400
know where they can find you if they have any

01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:45.539
further questions or thoughts? I'm already a

01:01:45.539 --> 01:01:48.679
bit old school, but still Instagram works as

01:01:48.679 --> 01:01:50.559
you noticed because you could reach out to me

01:01:50.559 --> 01:01:53.500
through Instagram. So yeah, indeed, if people

01:01:53.500 --> 01:01:56.440
would like to reach out to me, they can easily

01:01:56.440 --> 01:01:59.699
find me on Instagram and then send me a message

01:01:59.699 --> 01:02:03.019
and I will happily reply to all decent questions.

01:02:03.980 --> 01:02:07.619
Decent questions. So you don't want like hate

01:02:07.619 --> 01:02:11.300
mail or anything like that? I think I unfortunately

01:02:11.300 --> 01:02:15.920
I heard recently from a very known, a very famous

01:02:15.920 --> 01:02:20.039
female athlete, the amount of wrong pictures

01:02:20.039 --> 01:02:22.559
that she receives. And I think it's really a

01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:26.019
pity to hear that that's the reality for female

01:02:26.019 --> 01:02:29.679
athletes. I didn't realize it until I had a talk

01:02:29.679 --> 01:02:32.719
with her. And I really, I don't understand how.

01:02:33.099 --> 01:02:36.019
how we come to this point but fortunately it's

01:02:36.019 --> 01:02:39.559
the truth so i won't risk to receive those kind

01:02:39.559 --> 01:02:42.460
of pictures i guess but okay so you don't want

01:02:42.460 --> 01:02:45.380
pictures if people want to send hate is that

01:02:45.380 --> 01:02:51.099
okay no i'm just ninja it's funny no of course

01:02:51.099 --> 01:02:53.880
people should act respectfully to each other

01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:58.630
always so uh constructive criticism maybe yes

01:02:58.630 --> 01:03:03.309
okay okay well um yeah thank you for talking

01:03:03.309 --> 01:03:05.809
to me um thanks for joining thanks for answering

01:03:05.809 --> 01:03:08.869
all the hard questions um and it was amazing

01:03:08.869 --> 01:03:11.570
to talk to you yeah thanks a lot it was a pleasure

01:03:11.570 --> 01:03:14.010
also thanks for all the questions thank you so

01:03:14.010 --> 01:03:16.050
much for making it to the end of the podcast

01:03:16.050 --> 01:03:18.849
don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed

01:03:18.849 --> 01:03:22.670
otherwise you are a super big climber if you're

01:03:22.670 --> 01:03:25.090
listening on a podcasting platform i'd appreciate

01:03:25.090 --> 01:03:27.690
if you rate it five stars and you can continue

01:03:32.380 --> 01:03:34.059
Thanks again for listening.