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As for the youngsters, I think Jenny Buckley is, she's the next star.

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I was always sort of afraid that I'm going to be lost once I'm done competing

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because it is such a big part of your identity, like at that level.

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It's all you do, it's all you think about.

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My wife was pregnant most of the 24 seasons, so I was like, I was like so excited,

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yeah, to get a baby and yeah.

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I wonder if I try hard.

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I don't know.

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I got to think about it.

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I don't want to be mean, but I'm sure you're not.

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Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast.

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I'm your host Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today, Gregor Vezonik.

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Gregor is a boulder and lead climber from Team Slovenia, but he recently retired a few

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months ago from competitions.

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In this episode, we'll get insight into the powerful Slovenian team, how he made the

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decision to retire and all the planning around it, what it's like climbing with Janja,

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and we get to hear him geek out about holds and hold shaping.

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It was really exciting for me to hear about how much love and psych he still has for the

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comp scene. So I hope you enjoy this episode with Gregor.

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Real quick, I'm excited to announce my new sponsor helping make this podcast episode

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possible, Mad Rock Climbing.

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I got fitted with their brand new line of high performance shoes, the D2.1s.

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They just came out December 6th, but you might notice a few of your favorite comp climbers

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are already wearing them, like Oscar Baudran from Team Canada and also me.

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This is the first time I've gotten to wear their shoes for an extended period of time,

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and I'm actually super impressed with the grip of their in-house rubber.

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And of course, the famous drone heel that everyone says is the cheat code to heel

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hooking small edges. Feel free to message me if you have any questions about the

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shoes or sizing and you can use the discount code notrealclimber for 10% off

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your entire Mad Rock order.

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Info will be in the description.

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Back to the show.

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Where are you at right now?

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I'm at a climbing gym.

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It looks very clean.

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Oh, okay.

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Okay. Yeah.

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Were you setting today?

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I was. Yeah, I was setting in the morning.

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I was working on a spray wall, actually.

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Setting on a spray wall?

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Yeah, setting the spray wall, like resetting it.

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What goes into setting like a spray wall?

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Or can you just like put stuff up wherever?

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Do you actually have to like think about it?

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I think most people don't know how to use spray walls, so it's really hard for them

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to like set spray walls as well.

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But I think, yeah, a lot of Paul goes into setting a spray wall.

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Really?

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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I always thought you just like throw whatever old holds you have up there now.

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No, it's not like that.

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It's yeah, it's the way I do it is I start at the bottom, like the quarter and I add

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and then I go from there because I feel like in one square meter, there should be all

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type of grip types and like directions and all of that.

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So a lot goes in.

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Yeah.

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So you've like seen a lot of like bad spray walls then?

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I think most of the spray walls are bad.

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Oh, starting out with a hot take already.

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Okay.

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So what's like a bad spray wall versus a good one?

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I mean, it depends what you want, right?

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Like who the people are going to be, they're going to be climbing on it.

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But if you're setting for like a high level, most spray walls have too many jugs on it.

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Most spray walls have the footholds that are too good.

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A good sign of a bad spray wall is also like in like one small spot you have very similar

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holds turned into very like similar directions.

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So you have like three pinches that are all in like kind of diagonal.

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That's not good because it just doesn't offer as much as it could.

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It was funny, a couple of years ago, I saw the new training, like USA Climbing Training

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Center for the first time.

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It was the one that they just moved and Nathaniel Coleman and Ben Hanek kind of took me

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through the whole thing and they showed me the spray wall and the boulders and stuff.

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And they were like, they were super psyched about it because obviously it's a really good place.

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And they were like, oh, what do you think of the spray wall?

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I was like, I think it's shit.

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I don't think it's that good.

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And at first I thought I was joking.

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And then, yeah, then we started talking about it and like we kind of like, and then I talked

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to Josh as well and he was like, oh yeah, we have to change a lot of things because

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yeah, it's not ideal.

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It's not like optimal.

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So did they change it after?

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They did.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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They did.

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And then like the last few years that I've seen it, it's like now it's really good.

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And I'm not saying I'm the person that changed it or anything.

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I just, yeah, it's gotten like significantly better every year that I see it now.

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Well, that's good for us, I guess.

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Yeah, that's interesting to know.

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I mean, I don't really climb on a spray wall that often because I don't think I climb at

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a high enough level where it's like, I don't run out of things in the gym.

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So then I'm like, I don't really like having to memorize holds on a spray wall.

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So I'm going to avoid it.

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So yeah, I guess I never really thought about it, but yeah, that makes sense.

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Okay.

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So I guess getting into your background a little bit, just starting to think about it

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starting from the beginning, how did you get started climbing and competing?

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Yeah.

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So I was born into a climbing family.

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My parents are both climbers.

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They met in a crag and then my brother is a competition climber.

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So yeah, I was just kind of born into it.

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I was raised in the crags.

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Yeah.

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So I spent most of my childhood outside in crags climbing, playing under rocks and stuff.

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How old were you when you started like competing?

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Cause I guess it doesn't sound like your parents competed.

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My dad actually, I'm not sure if my mom competed, but my dad did compete.

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He was, yeah, he competed at the first Yugoslavian national championships in,

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I think it was in 86 and he got third.

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Whoa.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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I remember he had this little cup that he got.

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He was so proud of it.

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And I started bringing home medals and stuff and he was like, oh, I still have my cup.

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But I did, so I started competing nationals when I was eight or nine.

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I think nine, but I did like divisionals and regionals before that.

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So yeah, I started competing when I was young, but I started climbing even before that.

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Basically, I don't remember the time when I wasn't climbing.

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So I didn't actually start watching comps until maybe like, it's like kind of recent,

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like maybe 2021 or 2022. So is your brother older?

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I would assume.

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He is older, but he never actually competed in the world cup level.

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So yeah.

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Gotcha.

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Well, I guess since he also competed, did you ever feel like competitive against each other or like

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against your dad?

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Oh yeah.

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I mean, my brother for sure.

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Like we, when I started climbing, like training a bit harder, I guess, like 10, 11, whatever.

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And he was still training and he was good.

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Like we never could train together.

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There's like, I don't think we ever did a training session together.

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We were super competitive against each other.

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Also we're like very different people and how you approach life.

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So we just, yeah.

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Also it's like, yeah, you know, like we're brothers four years apart.

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So yeah, it's, I think it's kind of tough for boys that age to really get along as brothers.

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Especially if you're in like a, especially if you're in like a competitive environment as we were,

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we're both competition climbers.

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I mean, although I guess if you're four years apart, you're not really competing against

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each other in like the same category or anything like that?

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Yeah, we weren't in the same category, but yeah, I do, I do feel like there was competition between

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us.

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I see. Who was like the, was there like anger involved?

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Is it like, or like what did that look like?

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I don't think there was like actual anger, but it's just like, yeah, I don't know.

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It's hard to explain.

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I think we just had such a different outlook to life that we also approached climbing differently.

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And that's why it just never worked, which like now looking back, I'm kind of sad we didn't do it.

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Because, you know, we could have learned from each other, I guess, but yeah, it just didn't happen.

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And that's okay.

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I mean, are you guys like still competitive nowadays or?

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No, no, no, no.

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Okay.

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No, we're quite, we're quite close now.

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Okay.

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It's very different now.

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Yeah.

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What would you say is like his approach to climbing versus yours?

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That's so different.

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He was always kind of like really into being like super strong climbers.

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Like really into being like super strong, doing one arm pull ups, like just campusing stuff.

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And I was more of a, because I'm, I naturally, I'm really weak.

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So I had to rely on all other stuff and I was studying climbing a lot, like the movement and,

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you know, all these sorts of stuff.

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So yeah, I think that's the main difference that we had.

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And he was like this, he was like this big jacked dude, like had a huge biceps.

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I was a skinny kid, no muscles.

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Huh.

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Well, it's interesting you would say that like naturally you're weak,

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but like you guys are brothers.

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So same, same kind of genes, right?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I think it's just because I think he started training when he was like actual training when

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he was younger than me.

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And so I was more, I was sort of like just climbing and you know, doing it as a fun activity.

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I had other stuff going on and he was like really early on, he was really focused just on climbing.

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And so he was actually training and I was more sort of like just climbing, discovering movement

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and playing around.

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So I think because he started doing that so early, he developed like more muscles,

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he got stronger and I just didn't.

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So yeah, I guess same genes, but different approach.

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Okay, interesting to know.

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Okay, so you're kind of like, well, you are the first Slovenian athlete that I've interviewed.

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So I kind of have some general questions about climbing in Slovenia.

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It's a pretty small country.

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So what do you think makes the team so dominant?

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Is there like a long climbing history there?

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Yeah, I mean, the country is really small.

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There's like 2 million of us.

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But yeah, the history is, yeah, we have so much history of alpinists and then rock climbers

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and then competition climbers.

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I think there's like three things that make the team so good.

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Like first of all, I think because we've had competition climbers for so long,

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we have a long history of coaching as well.

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So our coaches are very knowledgeable.

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So they basically know what they're doing.

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They know how to train.

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And I feel like that knowledge has been transferred from the old coaches

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to the new coaches for the last, I don't know, 25, 30 years, maybe even, yeah, 35 years.

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So yeah, we have really good coaches.

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Secondly, because the country is so small

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and we've had successful competitors since forever.

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I think we had a first world champion, Martina Cufar.

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She won world championships, I want to say 2003.

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And after that, we've had, and before that, we had Aljosha Gram, who was on a World Cup podium.

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And after that, obviously, we had so many good competitors.

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And I feel like if, because the country is so small,

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there is like a really big chance you're going to interact with those people.

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So, you know, if you're close to someone who's that good,

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it just kind of makes you realize that, you know, it's possible.

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The person who's winning the World Cup is also just a human.

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They're not like some freaks that you like.

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They're not doing something that's not possible for you.

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And then thirdly, I think we have like a really good program from when we're kids to when we're adults.

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So basically, like for me, I joined the youth team, like the national youth team when I was 13 or whatever.

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And because we have such a good tradition of training and coaching,

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when I was 13, I was kind of put into this environment where everybody was training.

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And that's what like, I kind of understood what training means, what you need to do to be good.

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And then it sort of like for me became a way of life.

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And if you start to develop these habits that are going to make you successful in the future,

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and you just like keep doing that for years and years and years.

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And if you have whatever, if you're going to throw 25 kids into the youth team or 30,

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you know, those are already handpicked.

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And then if you have like 25, 30 talents in the team,

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eventually they're going to be good when they're 21, 22 or whatever, 25.

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So I think these are the three main things that make us good.

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Because in reality, like infrastructure was really bad a couple of years ago,

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because we still only have, okay, I'll have to call them.

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I think we have like seven commercial gyms in the country,

238
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but we probably have 30 different spray walls.

239
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Oh, really? Okay.

240
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Yeah.

241
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So you are the spray wall expert then, okay.

242
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Or maybe even like 50 spray walls. I don't know.

243
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But it's just like people are training.

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There's a lot of small clubs and they all have reasonably good training programs.

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And also like in a very young age, like you get,

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you're just so close to everybody who's competing.

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So, you know, you sort of like, my kids sort of feed of each other

248
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and learn stuff from each other.

249
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And they get it, like they have a chance to climb together more often than kids in the US,

250
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because they live, you know, like a six hour flight to parks.

251
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Yeah.

252
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Here, you know, everything is two hours away.

253
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So you like grow up just training on a spray wall instead of like commercial gyms?

254
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Oh, yeah. I grew up training on a spray wall. Absolutely.

255
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Like my parents, my parents are both climbers, so we would drive to Austria a lot.

256
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Also, I grew up, you know, five kilometers, six kilometers from the Austrian border,

257
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and they did have a lot of commercial gyms, but it was mostly elite.

258
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So like for me, I would drive, we would drive to Austria reasonably, like a lot.

259
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Yeah. Like reasonably frequent.

260
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But other than that, it was just like spray walls all the time.

261
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Yeah. I find it interesting that people would be interested in getting into climbing

262
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if they only have access to a spray wall.

263
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Yeah. Well, I think you're looking at it from the perspective of,

264
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sort of your bubble.

265
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:06,420
Yeah.

266
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I'm assuming you don't have a lot of, I don't actually know,

267
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:15,360
but what's the closest rock climbing crag to you? Like how far do you have to drive?

268
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:21,280
Well, I don't climb outside, so I actually don't know. Half an hour? Yeah.

269
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:28,720
Okay. Like where I grew up, there's like probably like 12 crags within 20 minutes with the car.

270
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:29,760
Okay. I see.

271
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:36,640
So like a lot of climbers in Slovenia up to recently kind of grew up rock climbing.

272
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We're only now like the last seven years or, you know, maybe I won't overreact,

273
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:47,120
maybe it's been longer, but because I feel like in the U S you guys have like a,

274
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like I would assume the majority of climbers are indoor climbers in Slovenia.

275
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The majority of climbers is rock climbers.

276
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So maybe, you know, the spray wall is not the thing that kind of drives you in,

277
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but sort of like rock climbing gets you in. And then because you want to get better at

278
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rock climbing, you have the spray walls that are going to make you better.

279
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,080
And then does the Slovenian team like train together a lot?

280
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:24,880
Yeah. Yeah. We do have, because we also have the training center in Ljubljana in our capital.

281
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And just like, like we have it for the last four, three, three or four years,

282
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:35,920
but even before that we train together a lot. But we, even before that we train together a lot.

283
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:43,520
Like now I feel like every week there's new boulders, there's like comp simulation,

284
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:53,120
there's like, yeah, just a lot of stuff you can train on. And most of the people on the team live

285
00:17:53,120 --> 00:18:00,320
kind of like, yeah, close to the training center, like an hour drive maximum. So,

286
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:07,120
I mean, obviously it's really good to train with people that are on a high level.

287
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:12,240
Yeah. They're going to push you. And then in terms of, I guess, like athlete funding,

288
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I know it varies a lot country to country. So did you feel like you were able to make

289
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:22,320
a full living just being an athlete? Yeah. And in Slovenia, it's actually

290
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:29,280
like really good. We do complain a lot, but I think because we're, I mean, I should say,

291
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we did complain a lot. I'm not part of the team anymore, but I think we got spoiled. But in reality,

292
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if you're like, if you are selected for the comps, everything is going to be funded.

293
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So you don't spend any money. Also, once you get to like, if when you get to a certain level,

294
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if you're lucky enough, you're going to get employed by the government. So there's like,

295
00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:03,360
most of the athletes on the team are employed by the army. I was employed by the police,

296
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,040
which means, you know, you get, you get salary, you get

297
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insurance paid, social security, whatever, you know, everything is like you're an employee.

298
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:22,000
Okay, that's good. And I mean, you're not going to be like, once you're done with comps, you're

299
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not going to be a rich person from it. But yeah, you're making a living. It's not like you're

300
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spending money for climbing. You may see you are a professional. Yeah. So it's really good.

301
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:44,400
Yeah. Okay. And so I guess as you're exiting, who on the Slovenian team do you think is going to be

302
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:50,320
one to watch out for coming up the ranks? I think there's, you know, the usual suspects

303
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:55,120
that has been have been on the scene for so long. You know, you got the

304
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:06,640
Janja, Vita, Lučka, Mia, Ruka, and all the rest you've done so well in the past. I don't think

305
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,880
things are going to change drastically in the next few years. As long as they compete, they're all

306
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:17,840
on a really high level. As for the youngsters, I think Jenny Buckley is. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah,

307
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:25,120
I think she's the she's the next star. I just talked to her recently. I don't think she's just

308
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like super talented. I think she's also like very mature for her age, has the like work ethics. And

309
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:39,840
yeah, if it all goes well, if she stays healthy and everything, I think she's got a really bright

310
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future. And I'm sure I'm missing people out. To be honest, I'm not that involved with the youth

311
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:58,960
team. So it was really fun. I was setting a youth simulate like for I'm setting a lot for the team

312
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:05,920
now. And I like it like a month ago, I was setting for the youth team. And it's like, I want to see

313
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:10,320
who's coming. So I just know the level and stuff. And I checked it. I checked the list. I was like,

314
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:16,400
Oh, my God, I don't know anyone. I should get more involved. Yeah. Yeah. Well, now you know a little

315
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:21,280
better after setting for them, I guess. Yeah, yeah, no, it's gotten significantly better in

316
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:28,080
the last month. So going back a little bit again to your like competition career, what do you feel

317
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:34,160
like was your career highlight? I there's the obvious to I think, winning World Cup and

318
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,760
yeah, podium at the World Championships. Is there anything that's like not a win that really stands

319
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:49,680
out to you? There's a couple of comps where I did like, reasonably well. But going there, I was like,

320
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:58,000
I felt like shit. I was tired. I had pain. And I remember, I'm not gonna remember which

321
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:02,880
year it was. It was like one of the Mayeringen comps. It was the first comp of the season.

322
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:10,880
I was like shit for three weeks before the comp. I didn't make finals at the National Cup.

323
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:17,360
I had pain in my shoulder. I was like, why am I going to this comp? I even had like a conversation

324
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:23,600
with my coach. Like should I be going to this comp? And then I got there, kind of switched it on.

325
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:30,800
I ended up eighth or ninth, which is not too bad. Yeah, it was pretty good. So there and there's

326
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,520
like a couple of comps like that where I would go to, I don't know, we'd go to Asia and I

327
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:43,280
wouldn't sleep. It felt like shit, you know, but still kind of switched it on and had a good result.

328
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,920
Those are those were always special. But because the, you know, the result was not the podium

329
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:55,840
finish. You don't remember it as much. Yeah. Any like traveling highlights?

330
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:02,000
Everything was a highlight. Really? Well, you like the traveling part?

331
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:11,040
Yeah, it's just such an amazing life to live. You get to travel the world. You see all these amazing

332
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,920
places. You're traveling with your friends and you get to do the thing you love the most.

333
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:25,040
For some years in between, I was kind of like sick of it. But I was just like maybe me being too

334
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:31,280
obsessed with the results and not like looking at a bigger picture and being like, okay, I'm super

335
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:38,640
privileged to be doing this. This is all amazing. But it's very easy to get like, because you just

336
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:44,560
get so blindsided. The only thing you see are results in climbing and it's just like,

337
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:53,120
yeah, but every I feel like my all my years traveling global and competing with that was

338
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:58,800
all highlight for sure. I mean, yeah, because like sometimes if you are like nervous for a

339
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,880
competition, I'm sure you don't even really get to experience the traveling part.

340
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:10,880
Most of the time, at least for me, that's how that's how I function is like how we go to a

341
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,360
comp and like a lot of the time people on the team would like make fun of me that I'm going to run

342
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:21,360
out of like I'm in deep. It's like we would get somewhere, you know, stay in the hotel, go training

343
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and then go back to the hotel. I'm also like I'm a very picky eater. So a lot of the time I would

344
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:32,800
just eat in a microwave-powered room. I wouldn't even go to restaurants. I think I've been to Tokyo

345
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:41,360
I think I've been to Tokyo I want to say eight times and I've never explored Tokyo.

346
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:47,840
Like people ask me how Japan is. Yeah, it's good. But in reality, I've never explored it that much.

347
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,440
We're just like, but it's I'm not saying everyone's doing that. It was just

348
00:24:54,640 --> 00:25:01,520
my comfort zone. That's how I felt like I should be functioning. And sometimes it works. Sometimes

349
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:06,160
it didn't. Yeah. Well, so then if you didn't actually experience any of the traveling part,

350
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:11,920
then what did you like about traveling? I still experienced it more than not being there. You know

351
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:18,320
what I mean? I didn't. I wasn't I wasn't you know, like, yes, I was traveling the world, but I wasn't

352
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,400
a traveler. You know, I wasn't going there on vacation. I wasn't exploring different cities.

353
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,520
Yeah, a tiny bit. Yes. But but still, you know, you get this even if you like if you're just in

354
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:33,520
the hotel room, if you're driving around the city, still get to experience different cultures,

355
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:39,680
different cities and countries. I find it interesting that you're a picky eater,

356
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:45,360
because I also feel like I'm kind of a picky eater. So sometimes traveling and traveling gets weird.

357
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:52,080
But I feel like it's really hard if you need to like stay fueled and like compete and perform.

358
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:57,360
So when you're traveling, did you have like a go to meal that is like good for that?

359
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:04,400
Because I would love to know. I think it was pretty bad with my diet. Like to be honest,

360
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:11,600
I don't think it was a well balanced diet. Because I am a vegetarian. So you know,

361
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:19,680
by all scientific data, I'd be I'd have to be like peeling up on protein differently. And I

362
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:27,840
wasn't really taking care of that. I remember like I ate a lot of like instant ramen stuff.

363
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:34,320
Oh, wow. For competitions. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I would have like protein bars and stuff. But

364
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:40,640
I don't think I was the I was a very good example of what an ad-sense diet should look like.

365
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:45,120
So you didn't even have like, vegetables before a competition?

366
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:54,720
No, no, obviously, like I'll have vegetables and fruit and all that stuff. But yeah, not ideal.

367
00:26:54,720 --> 00:27:02,080
Yeah. So as a picky eater, what's like the most popular food that people like that you can't

368
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:08,960
stand? I mean, meat is a big one, isn't it? Well, I don't think you can say that you're a vegetarian.

369
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:16,000
So that makes you a picky eater. Like, oh, you don't like food just because it like tastes bad

370
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:25,200
or something. Eggplants, olives. There's a really weird one. I get like really bad migraines, like

371
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:32,400
going to the hospital bed. And I figured one of the one of my triggers is cheese.

372
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:40,240
That's fair. So I haven't had cheese in like eight years. And that's like,

373
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:46,320
imagine going to France and you can't eat cheese or going to Italy. And it's like everything's

374
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:52,080
cheese infused. So that's like, it's such a pain in the ass. You know, like you go to the pizzeria

375
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:57,360
and like, well, I guess I'm gonna have pizza without cheese. Well, does it like work? Like

376
00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:59,840
you don't have those migraines anymore? Yeah.

377
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:07,040
It's getting better. Yeah. It's not just connected to that. I think it's like connected to a lot of

378
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:13,440
things. They're also, I've heard they're like, how do you call that? Like you sort of get them

379
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:20,480
from your parents or your grandparents. I mean, I do too. So, okay. And I think my dad does. So,

380
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:27,200
yeah, I've been to the South Lake City Hospital twice because of the migraines.

381
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:32,320
Twice because of the migraine. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So it's like happened during

382
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,320
comps. Yeah. There was only one comp that I couldn't do because of a migraine.

383
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:45,040
Like South Lake City was always a tough one for me. I don't know why. Maybe the air quality,

384
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:53,040
maybe it's the travel because it's kind of far. Elevation maybe. I'm not sure what the elevation

385
00:28:53,040 --> 00:29:00,080
there is, but yeah. No, yeah. I relate to that. Can't imagine what it'd be like doing competitions

386
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,880
with a migraine. That would be really bad. It's impossible. Yeah. I guess like what happened

387
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:11,200
in Salt Lake, it just like hits and then you just... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's like two,

388
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:16,080
three years ago I had two. Our qualities when they were in the afternoon and in the morning,

389
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,680
I got one and like I'm all the time was lying in the hospital. I was like, okay, this is going to

390
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:25,120
get better. I'm going to get ready for like these qualities and then I just didn't. Which sucked

391
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:31,440
because I traveled to Salt Lake to lay in bed for five days. Oh, it was for that long. Wow. Yeah.

392
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,560
Maybe it was for... It didn't last that long, but I was kind of like not functional,

393
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,760
functioning properly for like, yeah, a couple of days. Yeah. They suck. I don't actually like

394
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:47,280
talking about them. Well, I'm just curious about your experience. I guess we don't have to go on,

395
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:52,480
but it's just like, yeah, I don't know that many other people who, I mean, who get them that bad.

396
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:59,120
Mine are not that bad. Like mine are stoppable with like prescription medication, which is good.

397
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:07,760
Mine are not and I sometimes I can't speak anymore. Sometimes like I remember like a couple

398
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:12,240
of times when it happened abroad, I was just like, I don't know how to speak English anymore. And then

399
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:17,440
I'll like, I'll have to have someone else talk to the staff because I'm just like, I... One time I

400
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:22,800
thought I was having a stroke because I couldn't speak. You get like the whole, all of the side

401
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:32,640
effects like Aura's like knowledge. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Wow. Fun times. Yeah. I guess in that case,

402
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:38,480
it's like pretty impressive still able to like still being able to do competitions because I

403
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:43,040
always feel like, oh, that's so annoying. Like it takes away so many days from my training.

404
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:52,480
Yeah. But yeah, like to be fair, they were never that like, they didn't happen that often.

405
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:58,480
Like they weren't that frequent. So yeah, got quite lucky with that. Well, yeah. Thanks for

406
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:04,480
sharing that. That was good for me to know. Okay. So now going into like your retirement process,

407
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:10,640
what goes, like what went into making your decision to retire? It's definitely not an easy decision

408
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:16,080
to make. Please excuse this brief intermission, but if you're interested in deleted scenes from

409
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:21,120
this episode, where we talk about transitioning from outdoors to competitions and setting for

410
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:27,280
youth climbers, do consider helping support this podcast on Patreon. Some other perks include a

411
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:32,400
membership pin shipped to you after two months, prioritize guest questions or the ability to

412
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:37,200
submit video questions and more to come. The proceeds go back into the podcast to help me

413
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:42,960
break even and they help me improve the experience of the guests. If you'd like to help out

414
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:48,720
non-monetarily, liking, commenting and sharing helps a great deal as well. Back to the show.

415
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:57,280
I've, yeah, it's a really hard decision, but I sort of always had like, I don't know why,

416
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:03,040
but for some reason I've always kept like thinking like 10 years ahead, like what I want to achieve,

417
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:11,440
but what my life, like what I imagine my life would be like in the next 10 years and like

418
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:20,080
sort of the milestones I want to hit. And I think I've had the idea of quitting in 2024

419
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:27,600
since 2018 or something like that. Yeah. I was like, okay, I'm not going to be doing Tokyo

420
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:35,120
Olympics. If the format changes, I might have a small chance of making Paris. Paris would be

421
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:42,800
a good way to stop the career. And then I was always like, okay, even if I don't make Paris,

422
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:48,400
I always knew the chances are really small. Maybe I didn't even take the chance.

423
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:55,200
Maybe I thought the chances are too small and that's why I wasn't even close. But I was always

424
00:32:55,200 --> 00:33:02,320
like, okay, yeah, like 2024 is the year I'm done. I'll be 29 years old. And then, you know, I still

425
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:09,840
have so much stuff to do in my life. So yeah, sort of always had that plan.

426
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:16,800
Was kind of so that this like when 2024 came, it wasn't the hard decision because I've always

427
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:27,120
knew that was going to happen. What was hard was in like 2023 when I had like a really bad season.

428
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:31,280
I was like, okay, should I be like, why am I doing this for one more year? I was sort of

429
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:37,760
contemplating if I should just quit or so that was the plan. And then I was like, okay,

430
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:46,720
so that was tough. But once the last comp came in 2024, I was just like, I was very okay with the

431
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:57,600
decision. I also like kind of, I made kind of prepared my life in terms of like, I knew the

432
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:03,920
stuff that I'll be doing once I'm done with my career. I kind of laid the groundwork. So yeah,

433
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,280
I was like, also like my wife was pregnant most of the 24 seasons. So I was like,

434
00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:20,080
I was like so excited. Yeah, to get a baby. And yeah, I wasn't like what when this,

435
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:26,560
it was obviously very emotional at the last comp, but still I was not like sad that I'm leaving. And

436
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,600
before the season started, I was also like very, it's like, okay, this is my last season. I'm going

437
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:38,000
to like enjoy everything, everything, everything and stay in the moment and everything. Sort of

438
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:47,200
I was like saying goodbye to this life for like a year. And it was good. It was good.

439
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:53,600
Ruthie That's good to know like ahead of time. Did you feel like relief when it was over or just like

440
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,160
bittersweet or happy?

441
00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:03,600
Jan No, I didn't feel the relief. I didn't feel bittersweet. I was just like very satisfied with

442
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:09,200
how my career ended. Yeah, it was just like, this is it. Now it's time to do all other stuff. I'm

443
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:16,160
very happy I had this life. I feel very privileged. I got to experience all that. And so yeah, I was

444
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:22,240
just satisfied. Ruthie Yeah. Did you have any like fears before retiring about what would come after

445
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:31,600
or what you would do? Jan I honestly don't think I did just because I've been, I was always sort of

446
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:37,840
afraid that I'm going to be lost once I'm done competing because it is such a big part of your

447
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:44,640
identity. Like at that level, it's all you do. It's all you think about. So because I was afraid

448
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:51,680
that that's going to happen to me, I did like lay there groundwork and prepared. Yeah, I, I,

449
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:57,920
I knew, I sort of prepared myself. I started climbing whole brand, you know,

450
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,480
and I was just like, okay, now and I knew I wanted to be a setter. So I was like, okay,

451
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,000
I'm not walking away from something. I'm walking towards something. And

452
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,840
Ruthie That's a good way to put it.

453
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,560
Jan Yeah. So it was like, for me, it was just like really good experience.

454
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,920
Ruthie And like now that you're a few months out, how does it feel?

455
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,720
Jan I've been so busy with everything. I don't really think I had...

456
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:23,840
Ruthie You don't feel. Okay.

457
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:29,520
Jan Yeah, I know. I didn't have time to think about it. Also, I've been very involved with like

458
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:35,760
the Slovenian team with setting and most of my best friends are on the team anyway. So I talk to

459
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:43,360
them. I know I'm still very much involved in the competition scene. So I don't feel like I'm,

460
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:52,080
I'm not outside that much. I do wonder what's going to happen when the season starts and I'll

461
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:58,000
be looking at World Cups, but I think I'll just be like psyched to watch my friends compete and

462
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:02,880
do well. And yeah, it's all good. It's all good.

463
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:08,560
Ruthie Makes sense. Are you still going to like travel or just like watch from watch online?

464
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:13,760
Jan I don't think I'll be watching any of the comps this year. Obviously,

465
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,800
Kopr, yeah, the one in Slovenia, like the elite comp, I'll watch that.

466
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,160
Ruthie Watch as in like go in person.

467
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,160
Jan Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like everything else, I probably just watch like streams.

468
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:24,720
Ruthie Yeah.

469
00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:30,640
Jan It also depends like where I'll be globally because I'll be traveling quite a lot in next

470
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:37,600
year. So maybe some of the travels sort of cross with the comps, but yeah, we'll see.

471
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,040
Ruthie And so I guess in a more general sense,

472
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,640
well, also like congrats on having a baby. That's really exciting.

473
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:45,040
Jan Thank you.

474
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:46,800
Ruthie And I'm glad that you're excited for it.

475
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:53,840
In a more general sense with like all the new stuff you're working on and like also being a new

476
00:37:53,840 --> 00:38:01,840
parent, that's like a huge time commitment. How do you come to terms with no longer being able to

477
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:08,560
perform at your best? Especially I feel like for a lot of younger listeners who are still in a phase

478
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:14,800
where you're supposed to like constantly improve. I mean, even just for like newer climbers, you're

479
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:20,320
supposed to like always be improving. Plateaus are like the worst thing in the world for a lot of

480
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:28,960
people. Like the thought of not improving or like even declining is kind of like terrifying. Not

481
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,440
that you're declining, like you're certainly still one of the top athletes. But you know what I mean?

482
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:40,640
Jan I can identify with being like very frustrated when the plateaus happen,

483
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:48,080
when you're not getting that good. I remember like I think about it now, it's like most of the days

484
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:54,880
when I was in a bad mood or wasn't really psyched, like I'm not in a depressed way, but

485
00:38:54,880 --> 00:39:02,800
when I was just unhappy with myself was because of the feeling I got on the wall. So like I was very

486
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:16,240
very... basically, yeah, it defined me a lot, like how good I'm climbing. But I feel like now with

487
00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:28,000
saying goodbye to comps, I sort of also said goodbye to being strong. I'm not very frustrated

488
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:35,200
when I'm not strong. The only time I get frustrated if I feel bad is when I'm setting.

489
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:41,680
But not knocking away that oh, I'm shit, I can't do that move. It's more like

490
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,600
I wish I was stronger distance, you know, it would make the job so much easier.

491
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,600
Because if you're setting at a high level, there's a difference if you have to

492
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:57,680
try a move four times to get the feeling of it or if you can get close in the first try.

493
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:06,560
So the only reason... I'm taking April off setting because I want to train because I feel like now I

494
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:13,680
sort of work too much and didn't train at all. So I'm taking April off just to get back in shape,

495
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:21,280
sort of. I'll never be in the shape I was, but just to make setting easier. Because I also feel

496
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,760
like I owe it to the athletes that I'm setting for.

497
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:30,640
So I guess the way you kind of got over that feeling was just it was no longer your life,

498
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:36,800
like you didn't define yourself, I guess, by how you're climbing.

499
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:41,360
Yeah, it's also like a lot of comp climbers when they're done with their career, they're like,

500
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:47,760
they still train hard because they want to do hard stuff outside. It is sort of sad, but

501
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:54,640
I'm on that side to do hard stuff outside. Maybe because I'm too much into setting and

502
00:40:54,640 --> 00:41:01,440
just this whole industry. I do hope I get psyched for rock climbing again, because I think it's

503
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:07,520
like a really good way of living your life. But I'm not like specifically training to do stuff outside.

504
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:17,280
I'm just not motivated for it and I've come to terms with it, even though my 16-year-old self

505
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:24,640
would hate me. But it's just how I feel at the moment and how my life works right now and

506
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:25,920
yeah, I'm okay with that.

507
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:32,160
Yeah, that's fine. I mean, you can make more money setting than you can climbing outside,

508
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:32,640
I guess.

509
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:39,120
Yeah, but it's not, I mean, I'm not looking at rock climbing as a way of making me, you know,

510
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:44,320
living, you know, it's just like, I think it's just like, I think it's just like,

511
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:49,520
you know, making a living, you know, it's just like, in my head when I was younger,

512
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,760
I've always had this idea, okay, when I stop competing, I'll be climbing hard stuff outside.

513
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,400
Not necessarily as a way of making money, it's just like I was psyched to do hard stuff.

514
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:00,640
And now I'm just out.

515
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:07,440
No, I think that makes sense. I mean, like as a kid, before I had money, I was like, I'm gonna,

516
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,440
when I have money, I'm gonna buy RuneScape premium and I'm gonna play that all day.

517
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:16,240
And then I never ended up doing that. So I think it makes sense. It's fair.

518
00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:21,280
So yeah, now that you are doing more setting, how are you looking at compared to just competing?

519
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:29,920
I feel like before looking at like a round, let's say a comp simulation,

520
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,760
I haven't done that many competitions, but I hadn't said that many competitions,

521
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:39,760
but I said like quite a lot of training stuff now is before it was just like, how can I,

522
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,440
there was a round, okay. And I did whatever, one world or two world or whatever,

523
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:52,560
before I was like, okay, how do I improve? Like how do I change as a setter, as a climber to do

524
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:58,160
better next time? And I'm just like, after a round, like how do I improve as a setter to,

525
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:04,240
you know, to offer the athletes a better training or a better competition? So it's a,

526
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:11,920
it's a, oh yeah, before I was, yeah, before I was thinking about performance and now I just

527
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:17,120
think about the product on the wall. Did you set while you were climbing too or competing?

528
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:24,960
Yeah, yeah. Not like, not in the last six years, because I didn't have to like money-wise,

529
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:31,040
but basically I started setting when I was really, really young. I think I set my first

530
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,840
competition when I was probably like 12 years old or something. Also when I was like, when I

531
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:41,280
started training a bit harder and nobody at the local club was really that strong. So the spray

532
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:45,760
wall was kind of easy. Like very quickly I started changing the spray wall. So I think

533
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:53,040
my first setting experience was probably like 10, 11 years old. And because my dad was also such

534
00:43:53,040 --> 00:44:00,160
like an important part of the club, he sort of showed me how to do stuff. And so yeah,

535
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:06,960
I've been setting for a long time and yeah, you know, like 2015, 16, 17, I did a lot of setting.

536
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:16,800
Just cause yeah, I was away. Basically what I did is after the season, I would go somewhere, set for

537
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:23,280
like a month when I had my off season, just to make enough money to, you know, to make it through

538
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:28,720
six, seven months of competition a season. How much do you feel like setting while competing

539
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:33,200
helped versus hurt? Cause I could see how setting while competing maybe helps you get into the

540
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:38,240
mindset of what the setter wants, but it's also like so physical. So like it takes away from

541
00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:43,760
training. I mean, if you want to be doing it, like you're not going to be a successful competitor.

542
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:49,040
You're going to be setting, you know, multiple days a week, but if you do get into setting when

543
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:54,080
you're young, can you do it once a month or whatever you try to sort of experience with moves,

544
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,400
you are going to understand the movement better. So you're going to call that a better timer.

545
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:03,120
You're going to be reading routes from older is better because you kind of understand what the

546
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:09,360
setter, what the setter's process was. And I feel like for me, it helped a lot, especially like slabs

547
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:16,880
and coordination stuff. You know, you, if you are a setter, you look at a whatever, you look at a

548
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:22,160
move and you see how the holds are positioned and you do get the idea what, how it should be working.

549
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:29,360
And I think it helps, it shouldn't be a regular thing because it's a physical job and

550
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:36,880
you're setting six, seven hours a day to train after that. It's impossible. I mean, you can do

551
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:42,480
it for some times, but if you're going to be doing it for like a couple of months, couple of years,

552
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,920
it's just, it's not going to work. You're going to be too tired. It's too physical.

553
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,800
Any aspirations of like becoming an IFSC setter one day?

554
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:58,720
Yeah, I do. I like, I really want to get into it. First of all, I want to be,

555
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:05,440
I want to be, I still want to be part of the scene because I like the community so much.

556
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:16,880
I also think comms are the coolest thing ever. Like, and I also like, I love setting, like setting

557
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:27,200
is basically it's my hobby. I wouldn't say it's my job because yeah, it's not. My primary job is

558
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:32,480
having a whole brand. I'm doing setting because I really want to be setting.

559
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:34,480
That's good to hear.

560
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:41,280
And I feel like, if you're a timer, the highest level you can compete, like the highest level

561
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,600
you can achieve as a competitor is, you know, workups. And it's the same for setters, like

562
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:51,600
the highest level you can compete, like you can get to as a setter is a workout. So yeah, I want

563
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:56,400
to be trying out concepts. I want to be putting stuff on the wall for the best climber in the

564
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:01,680
world basically and see what's possible. That's really good to hear. I mean, even though like

565
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,840
I'm doing a comp climbing podcast, I feel like a lot of the people I even interview are like,

566
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:11,520
I rarely hear that someone say that they think comps are the coolest thing ever.

567
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:16,000
So that's good to hear. You know, I have my problems with

568
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:27,280
formats or format is a bad case, but I do see problems with comps, but I still think like

569
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:34,000
getting the strongest climbers in the world together and have them fight it out. And like

570
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:39,040
there's some moments that happen where you're like, how did this just happen? This is incredible.

571
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:44,800
And I do also like, I respect the commitment of the athletes so much because I know how much

572
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:51,680
they're putting in and then to see what the level is, like where you can get and the stuff you can

573
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:59,280
do if you really commit. It's just so cool. Yeah, no, that's awesome. Okay. And you talked about the

574
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:06,880
hold shaping. That's your, I guess your main thing. For those who don't know, which I feel like

575
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,560
there's probably a lot of people, I mean, I don't really know anything about hold shaping.

576
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:21,920
How does it work? Basically, well, it's very rough. You get a block of foam. It's a sort of foam.

577
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:29,520
And then you can either kind of sculpt it, carve it by hand, you use all these different tools.

578
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,840
And then they make the molds, whatever, that's a totally different process. Or you can

579
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:39,280
shape the hold on your computer. I don't know how that works. I'm really bad with computers.

580
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:44,400
And then have like a CNC machine cut it out. But it's basically, yeah, it's

581
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:52,480
all the stuff you see on the wall, somebody had to come up with. And yeah, it was most of the stuff

582
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:59,280
is shaped by hand on like a foam block. Well, so that's just the shaping process.

583
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,480
But then the actual production is just like regular factory stuff.

584
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:08,640
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like totally different. Like I feel like a lot of

585
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:17,360
like a lot of the shapers are basically just sculptors. They're artists who are producing

586
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:22,880
stuff. I don't think I'm an artist. I think I'm really actually pretty bad at the...

587
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,120
I think I've done some good stuff, but I wouldn't say I'm talented. But like

588
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:36,000
some shapes that I see are just like this is artwork. But it's also like, by the end of the

589
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,480
day, it can't just be artwork. It has to be a product. So it has to be functioning. And also

590
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:46,080
it's like a product design. It's very similar to setting. Because you can put stuff on the wall,

591
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:51,120
it's going to look pretty. You can recreate the flower with holes or whatever. But that's art.

592
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:56,240
But as a setter, you have to create a product that's going to function. So I feel like it's

593
00:49:56,240 --> 00:50:01,360
very similar process with shaping. It's like you're an artist, but at the same time,

594
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,000
you're a product designer. So the products have to work.

595
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:10,320
I guess, like, are there any specific shapes or holes that come to mind that really stand out to you?

596
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,520
There's so much stuff that I like.

597
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:21,680
I find it quite incredible. There's some of the flat hole stuff, like the Relial set.

598
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:27,440
I'm pretty sure it's like 14 years old. It's still getting used to it. And it's a very simple shape,

599
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:35,440
but it still works so well. And then you have the Enterprise, now Cheetah, shape, like the big

600
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:43,520
Tadji. That was shaped like 15 years ago. It still works amazingly. Or if you look at 360 stuff,

601
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:50,560
it's like, most of their stuff is just a circle. It's so simple, but it works so well. And they

602
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:55,280
keep coming up with new stuff in that shape. But then on the other hand, you've got stuff like,

603
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,720
I can get really into details. I'm like super nerdy about finding holes.

604
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:07,600
It's like, if you look at some of the stuff that people have been doing with like recreating rock

605
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:12,480
types, if you look at like Bluestone, which is not very common in the US. But if you look at like the

606
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:20,320
details on their font range, it's like the hole looks exactly like a piece of rocking font.

607
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:27,120
Or if you look at Kilter's granite range, it's just like, how do you do that?

608
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:35,120
But there's also like, I get nerdy. Like every time I walk into a gym, and it's been like that

609
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:39,920
forever, I would go around, just touch the holes. And like some stuff, I'm just like, how is this

610
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:48,640
so comfortable? So it's about like comfort and ergonomics and... It is, but it's also like

611
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:59,360
a function, you know, it's function and it's just so much. If you think about like, some people find

612
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:05,840
root setters like super creative and they're like, oh, how did you do that? But if you take like even

613
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:11,360
like a step back, somebody had to create the project that then the setters are going to use.

614
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:20,560
So it's like, for me, shaping is sort of like one level or one step before the setting even starts.

615
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:28,320
So it's sort of like carving out a piece of foam, but already thinking about the movement is going

616
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:35,520
to make it possible. Okay. So I mean, I know you had listened to my episode with Nicky and Jake,

617
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:42,400
and they had some hold opinions. Yeah, I also listened to when you were on their podcast.

618
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:47,840
And I was glad to hear you call it out. That was a good moment for me. I was happy to hear that.

619
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:53,840
Yeah, so clearly some people have strong opinions on holds. And I think they had also said,

620
00:52:53,840 --> 00:53:00,320
I had asked like, is there a hold that doesn't exist that needs to exist? And they vehemently

621
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:09,520
said no. So in terms of like, continuing to shape holds, like what more needs to be out there?

622
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,840
I don't think that there's like an answer to that question. Because it's sort of like,

623
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:26,640
it's sort of like asking, you know, a chef, what sort of a pasta shape do we need? And we're all

624
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:32,880
like, we have all the pasta shapes we need. And yet every now and then there's a new pasta shape

625
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:41,440
that changes how pasta is cooked. Like, do we need more dishes? Like actual food? No, we don't.

626
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:46,640
But and yet people come up with new dishes every year. So it's the same. It's like,

627
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:55,520
it's like inventing something new. It's just, yeah, there's, I think there's like unlimited potential.

628
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:03,920
Although I do think there is, now we're sort of stacking brands just copying each other,

629
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:11,600
sort of like following the trends. Which I'm not gonna shit on that because I think I'm guilty of

630
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:18,640
that as well. And I think it's just, in reality, it's just very hard to create something new.

631
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:27,520
But there is, I'm sure there is stuff, no outside, just outside of shaping as well. There's like

632
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:33,840
new materials we have to try. There's all these sorts of stuff that we have to play around with.

633
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:38,720
It's also like, as the sport is going to progress, it's like, we're going to notice, okay, what

634
00:54:38,720 --> 00:54:44,400
I'm sure like there's a setter who's going to come up with a new move or whatever new sequence

635
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:50,880
and they're going to be like, oh, I don't have the right equipment to do that. And then, you know,

636
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:56,480
a shaper is going to come up with that and they're going to make that possible. But yes,

637
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:00,960
there's too many, too many whole brands in the world. There's the, I think the market's

638
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:06,960
pretty saturated right now. And yes, most of the brands are like, oh, I'm going to do this.

639
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:12,240
And yes, most of like a lot of the stuff has been discovered in the past.

640
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:19,200
But I think there's going to be new cool stuff coming up anyway. It's sort of like,

641
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,680
a person asked me the other day, like, why do you come up with a new range every year?

642
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:30,000
Like, do you need that? I was like, no, but you know, BMW makes a new car every year.

643
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:34,800
And it's, or like Apple makes new iPhone every year. It's just like, it's sort of better.

644
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:40,800
And then all the time stuff is just going to get better. And yeah, I'm still very,

645
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:46,880
very psyched for shaping. Okay. Yeah, that's good. I think that kind of goes into one of the

646
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:51,360
questions that came through on Instagram, which was what's your creative process when designing

647
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:56,880
a new hold? And how long does it take to move it into production? It's like very different from

648
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:04,640
time to time. You know, sometimes it's very quick. Sometimes it's very long. I do like

649
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:09,600
it's like, for me, there's like two types of shaping that I do. There's like shaping for myself

650
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:15,040
and shaping for my own brands or the shaping that I do for other brands. If I do stuff for

651
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:20,560
other brands, normally people come to me and they're like, this is what we want. Can you make

652
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:25,760
a hundred, 200, 300 of these just different for variations? Can you make a range? And that's like,

653
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:34,080
there's in reality, there's not a lot of creativity. Yeah, there's not a lot of creativity

654
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:42,960
there. When it comes to like creating a new range for myself, it can come from anything. It can

655
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:50,080
come from talking to a friend about holds, talking to a setter about moves. It can come from just,

656
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:57,920
a lot of the times it would just come from playing with the phone. It's like it is so closely

657
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:02,160
connected to the tools that you're using. So it's just like you're trying to do something new with

658
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:06,880
a tool and there's like this small detail that comes up and you're like, okay, this detail could

659
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:18,640
be the identity of the whole range. But I feel like making the first six, seven holds in your

660
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:22,560
range is the hardest. And once you have six or seven, you're like, sort of like, okay, this is

661
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:29,520
the idea. And then it's like very quick. How long it takes to get it to from shaping to production,

662
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:38,800
it just varies and how the factories are, you know, like how busy they are. I've shaped,

663
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:48,560
like in the last 13 months, I shaped, I think 900 shapes. And yeah, I did a lot, but I think

664
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:56,160
they're not all out yet. And some of them are shaped in August already. It's just such a long

665
00:57:56,160 --> 00:58:01,360
process because they have to go through like the molding process. And then once that is done,

666
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:06,160
now there's all these other processes. And then in the end, they have to go to a photo studio

667
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:10,000
and then like photos have to be edited. They have to be put on a website. And it's just like,

668
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:16,400
it takes like the holds, once I'm done with the shaping, it's going to take a long time before

669
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:21,600
the holds are actually in the gym. So it all varies obviously.

670
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:28,880
Yeah. So like a few months to year, I guess. A year is a lot, but yeah, like it,

671
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:34,480
I think the most I've had is probably like six, seven months. Yeah.

672
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:41,440
Also, wait, I'm confused about shaping 900 holds. Like they're all different, like shapes?

673
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:46,080
Yeah. Yeah. They're all different shapes. Yeah. I was shaping for,

674
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:55,360
how many brands did I shape for this year? Six or seven? I was also like, I get very obsessed

675
00:58:55,360 --> 00:59:03,120
with stuff. And when I was a kid, I got obsessed with climbing. And then at some point I was like,

676
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:09,200
okay, because I was working with 360, like a lot. And then I was like, okay, shaping is cool.

677
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:17,040
And I sort of got, I rented out like an old garage and just, I was like for three years,

678
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:22,080
I was sort of just like copying other holds, just to sort of get the idea of the work that you have

679
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:29,360
to do. And like this year I was sort of, okay, I'm going to make a thousand holds just so I can

680
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:35,520
perfect my craft. That's just sort of like, I'm going to be training more than anybody else.

681
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:42,640
Okay. And I think like some of the shapers, there's not a lot of shapers in the world,

682
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:51,040
but some of them have been shaping for 30 years or whatever. And I'm sort of like, okay,

683
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:55,600
I'm not going to catch up to them in years, but I might as well do like three times as much they

684
00:59:55,600 --> 01:00:02,160
do in a year and sort of like do three years a year. So I just kept saying yes to all the different

685
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:08,320
like shaping jobs. Makes sense. But I guess I'm just like confused about the logistics. Like are

686
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:15,280
these all different shapes? Imagine this, like imagine I'm going to give you a very classic

687
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:25,760
example. Imagine you're creating a hold range that looks like apples, right? You know the theme is

688
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:30,480
going to be apples, right? An apple. This is how the hold is going to look like. And then you're

689
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:33,520
going to go through the process. Okay, I'm going to need 30 footholds. Okay, I'm going to put them

690
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:40,160
in three ranges of 10 footholds. So you create 30 small apples and then you're like, okay, I need

691
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:46,480
15 mini jugs. Like, okay, I need half of them has to be left hand, half of them have to be right hand.

692
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:52,960
So you're changing the shape slightly. Like you're getting bigger, smaller, like higher profile,

693
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:58,800
lower profile, slopey, juggy, whatever. So the idea is the same whole thing. So you're going to

694
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:08,080
create a range called apples, but you're kind of changing how the holds look like, sort of like

695
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:14,800
size wise and grip wide. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. It just sounds like a lot. Like I feel like

696
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:23,600
gyms don't even have 900 holds from like all different brands. You're so, so wrong. Yeah,

697
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:33,600
I have no idea. I have no idea. This is like blowing my mind. Please go to a whole brand

698
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:41,840
website today. Yeah. And I'm sure you're not obsessing about holds anyway, but like I'm sure

699
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:49,760
you have like a particular hold that you like or like a range. Like go to that brand's website

700
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:57,280
and look at how many different holes there is in range. And then they all look quite similar.

701
01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:00,800
And maybe you're not even going to look like you're not going to notice they're different,

702
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:06,480
but they're very different. Yeah. I'll have to do some research because I guess when you're saying

703
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:14,400
holds, you're not just thinking of like the flagship or like standout holds. You're also

704
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:20,560
just talking about like small like foot chips or whatever. Yeah. I'm talking about everything,

705
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:26,880
you know, from the smallest chips, like to the biggest fiberless markers. And yeah.

706
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:34,000
Yeah. I'll have to take a look at that. So do you have any like hold hot takes, any thoughts on like

707
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:45,120
no-text holds or like the worst holds, worst materials? I don't like to talk shit about

708
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:53,280
like shapes. Just from the reason, because I know how hard it is to come up with something new or

709
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:57,920
how hard shaping is. Like if you've been through the process, it's just like,

710
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:04,160
this is a heinous process. And if I don't like something, it doesn't mean someone else is not

711
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:11,280
going to like it. So obviously I think there's some bad stuff on the market. But yeah. So

712
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:17,360
I don't have like a worst hold in my life. But in terms of like no-text,

713
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:30,000
I think it was a cool idea. Like when they came up with them in them and the world championships,

714
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:36,400
it was just like such a shock to the athletes. It was, they also just like,

715
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:46,240
they're doing their job, right? They were created for sort of like paddles and

716
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:54,160
sort of, they were created with an idea in mind. Like they know what they wanted to achieve with

717
01:03:54,160 --> 01:04:05,680
those holds and they work really well for those things. I'm not a fan of now all the other brands

718
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:11,520
doing no-text holds. I just think that's like, okay, I don't think we need more of them.

719
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:15,840
Because like last year at the trade show in Europe, like most of the brands had no-text holds.

720
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:24,640
I don't think gyms need more of that. Basically those holds is like, you're going to sick to them

721
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:35,360
more if your hands are moist. And like we've seen athletes lick their hands at comps to get more

722
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:45,440
friction on it. I'm not sure if that's the best thing to do. And a lot of the times it's just like

723
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:53,840
not my favorite holds, but I'm very impressed with the fact that they came up with them. I think

724
01:04:54,400 --> 01:05:00,880
they do their job. Yeah, just like the creative process behind this is just

725
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:08,080
something I can respect definitely. But I don't think more brands need to do it. It's been done,

726
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:12,080
it's okay. I don't think an average gym needs them.

727
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:16,880
So you're not going to make any no-text holds for your brand?

728
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:23,280
I don't think so. Or let me rephrase that. Maybe an average gym needs 10 of those,

729
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,480
but they don't need a no-text hold from every single brand on the planet.

730
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:32,080
What is the use other than I guess just like paddles when you're setting?

731
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:37,680
You can set everything with them. You use them as holds, it's just like that they don't have friction.

732
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:49,840
So yeah, they were originally meant as this like sort of electric new modern style products.

733
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:54,880
Obviously you can use them for everything else as well. You can set the V0 with them, why not?

734
01:05:56,080 --> 01:06:01,280
I don't think it's the best idea. Yeah, and you put them in a step, they're all jugs. You put them on

735
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:04,880
a step, put them 20 centimeters apart and it's a V0.

736
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:11,760
Yeah, I guess so. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable doing a full V0 no-text climb.

737
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:16,000
I didn't say it's a good idea. I just said it's a good idea.

738
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:22,240
Yeah, okay, makes sense. All right, so I think those are all my questions. We can move into some

739
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:29,680
of the discord questions now. Some setting and hold shaping stuff. So the first one,

740
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:33,760
how do you see route setting and World Cup comps changing over the next decade?

741
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:40,160
Do you think there will be an evolution in styles or like specialized climbing?

742
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:46,080
Holds that competitors have like never touched before? Yeah, do you think there will be any

743
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:53,600
dramatic changes? I don't know what's dramatic for you, but I think we'll sort of see more and more

744
01:06:53,600 --> 01:07:04,720
complex movement on bundles. Like when this whole parkour, whatever style came out, it was like

745
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:10,240
running on huge volumes, jumping on jugs and stuff, just trying to get as far as possible.

746
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:16,400
I think we're sort of going away from that. I think in the future, yes, there'll be a lot of

747
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:23,040
coordination, but on like bad holds, I think the ending positions are going to be more precise.

748
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:30,240
I hope we're going to go back to the beginning of the year,

749
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:40,560
but I hope we're going to go more in again in terms of not having boulders that are 12 meters wide.

750
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:51,200
Yeah, like more complex on worse holds. Also, I think like talking to some of the IFS

751
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:56,800
designers, I feel like we might be going back to more power stuff, which is good.

752
01:07:56,800 --> 01:08:02,080
I feel like around should test the climber in all of the climbing aspects,

753
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:12,640
in all the styles, but it is like in the finals round, you only have four boulders. So in reality,

754
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:17,760
you have to choose all the climbing types that you're going to test them on.

755
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:27,440
I feel like right now, we're sort of like every comp has the same four or five different skills

756
01:08:27,440 --> 01:08:37,280
that the comps are sort of like questioning. I feel like we maybe go a tiny bit away from that.

757
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:43,280
We introduce more styles in. I hope the setting will make it possible for the best

758
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:49,840
all-around climber to win comps. You can't say the best climber isn't winning right now.

759
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:54,560
I think the best climber is winning, but the best climber in the styles that are presented is winning.

760
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:59,200
And I'm not saying like it wouldn't be the same people winning. I'm just like maybe let's

761
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:07,760
introduce more styles. I guess what do you mean by like wanting it to be more like inwards?

762
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:14,800
It's just the size of the boulders. Like sometimes you see something ridiculous where it's like...

763
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:17,200
But why does that bother you?

764
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:20,960
Because I think we're...

765
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:26,240
It's very personal, but I don't like

766
01:09:27,440 --> 01:09:30,480
moves that are hard just because they're long. Sort of like

767
01:09:30,480 --> 01:09:38,000
a run across eight volumes where you jump from a really big jug to a really big jug in the end.

768
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:43,840
I think that's testing just one part of climbing. I think it should rather be running on three

769
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:49,440
volumes where the starting position is bad and the ending position is bad. Because I feel like that

770
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:56,000
sort of tests more things. Yes, it tests your timing, but it's not going to be the same

771
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:02,000
if you like that sort of tests more things. Yes, it tests your coordination, but it also

772
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:07,920
tests whether you're strong enough to pull from bad holds and whether your

773
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:15,360
balance is good enough to end the move in a weird position. So you get more aspects

774
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:20,560
tested than just having this gigantic moves.

775
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:26,000
Okay, makes sense. And so in terms of your hold shaping and setting,

776
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:31,920
does your setting inspire your hold shaping more or does your hold shaping inspire setting more?

777
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:39,680
I think it feeds off each other. It's just like when I'm setting, I'm thinking about shaping.

778
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:43,760
When I'm shaping, I'm thinking about setting. So it's sort of like a connected thing that

779
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:52,560
you just, for me, one doesn't work without the others, probably. I could probably be setting

780
01:10:53,600 --> 01:11:04,560
if I was in the shaper. But yeah, I get the inspiration in shaping and in setting.

781
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:10,800
I guess is there any time when you're setting where you're like, oh, I really wish I had this

782
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:17,920
kind of hold and then you have to be the one to make it? Yeah, but it's not necessarily about

783
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:23,440
like the outline or the shape of the holds. Sometimes I would think about, well, what kind

784
01:11:23,440 --> 01:11:27,120
of a grip would I need here? Like, well, it'd be really cool if you had like a sloper that's

785
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:35,200
kind of positive, but not really, or whatever. And then sometimes I'm like, oh, I wish I had

786
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:40,880
this like really high profile thing that would be this size and this, this, this. So yeah,

787
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:50,400
I do think about the shapes a lot when setting. Okay. Next question. More general, I guess.

788
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:54,160
What's it like climbing with Yanya? It's just impressive.

789
01:11:54,160 --> 01:12:00,640
Mm-hmm. It's just like last year before Paris,

790
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:08,880
it was just like every day, we trained together like most of the days and every day I was just

791
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:14,800
like, watch her climb and be like, well, this is the perfect climber. There is nothing else you can

792
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:22,400
do. This is, you know, like you can't get better. And yet every day she gets better.

793
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:26,880
Just in terms of like training or like the, I don't know what she's doing.

794
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:36,160
It's everything. It's like power, tactics, endurance, style, technique, everything. I'll

795
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:44,160
remember like she'd do like 70, 80 move circuits on the spray wall. And she would do them. I'd be

796
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:49,760
like, well, those are some of the hardest move and she just did 80 of them. I guess she does

797
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:54,880
like you can't get better. And then she jumped on and she'd be like, and then the coach would be

798
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:59,840
like, what do you think? It's like, well, I could do this, this, this, this, this, this, this better.

799
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:03,760
And he's like, yes, and this, this, this, this, this. So it's just like, it's mind blown.

800
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:09,200
Yeah. It's also, at first I had like

801
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:17,680
problem training with her because it's just like, it can be really demoralizing. Okay. Yeah.

802
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:24,560
Yeah. But, and then we had like, we had a period when we didn't train together that much because

803
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:29,280
it was just, I wasn't working for me here. Well, like last year we trained together and I was,

804
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:34,800
I kind of switched from fuck she's beat, like she's much better than me to being like,

805
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:40,400
well, she's this good. I can learn from her and I can, I'm pretty sure I can be this strong.

806
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:50,160
And I feel like this, it made me, I think I was the strongest ever in my last year. It didn't show

807
01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:56,640
in the results, which sucks, but I feel like physically I was in best shape in my last year

808
01:13:56,640 --> 01:14:02,400
because I was just like, I was like, this is what I want. It's huge. She's just like, she's a

809
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:10,880
ridiculous, it's what you see at comps is not even close to being an estimation how good she actually

810
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:16,640
is. That's good to know. I guess when you said that sometimes it would feel like demoralizing

811
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:24,560
training with her. I don't know. How do you like get over that feeling? Just like I said,

812
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:29,440
it's just like, you have to get over it and be like, okay, she's better, but let's just learn

813
01:14:29,440 --> 01:14:36,640
from her. It's the same as training with anyone who's better than you. It's just like,

814
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:42,560
well, you either cry about it and you don't train with them or you're like,

815
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:45,520
they're good. I'm going to train with them. Get as good as them.

816
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:51,760
You said that your training styles were kind of different and so you also didn't really train

817
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:57,200
together because of that. It kind of also reminded me of what you said about training with your

818
01:14:57,200 --> 01:15:04,720
brother in terms of different training styles. In what way do you want training styles to be

819
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:13,760
similar so that you would train with someone? With Yannia it was different. I think we're both

820
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:23,120
pretty hard people to coach. Obviously, very different level. She's the greatest of all time.

821
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:29,680
I'm not comparing myself there. It's just like we do both get super annoyed with ourselves. We get

822
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:42,720
annoying, like really annoying. I think there was a point where we would get annoying at the same

823
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:49,120
time and we would get annoyed with each other and it just didn't work. I think it was mostly

824
01:15:49,120 --> 01:16:02,720
because I was just frustrated not being as good as her. In terms of this training partner,

825
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:09,120
I think for me, we're just like to walk into the gym and train with someone who just sort of

826
01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:14,240
lifts you up and then if you have two people that are just so psyched to get better,

827
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:20,160
it's just like they don't even need to be training on the same boulders, training on the same roots,

828
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:24,880
whatever. They don't need to be doing the same thing, but just having two training partners,

829
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:31,600
they're just like so psyched to get better. It's just like going to bring the motivation up.

830
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:36,240
I was sort of thinking about this the other day when Naujong went to Sean and

831
01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:43,840
his brother Jejun who were in Slovenia training. I live like five minutes away from the gym,

832
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:50,880
so almost every day I'll walk in to say hi to everyone and drink coffee with them. With them,

833
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:57,680
Janja and Jair Behar is training. I was sitting there sipping coffee, I was there for 45 minutes.

834
01:16:57,680 --> 01:17:03,360
I was like, this is the first time I actually miss training hard because the psych was so high.

835
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:09,120
Everyone was just pushing each other so much. That's exactly the training environment I think

836
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:17,520
they need to succeed. You said that you learned a lot from her. Is there anything that really

837
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:22,960
stands out to you in terms of things you learned? I think her try hard is...

838
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:29,920
Yeah, nobody tries as hard as her. How did you incorporate that into your own training,

839
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:35,200
just like the psych of trying hard? I think I'm not a very talented climber. I don't think I ever

840
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:47,040
was. I think the one thing that I was sort of good at is trying hard. But I kind of lost it there for

841
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:54,240
a second for a couple of years. But what trying hard feels to me is just like every time you get

842
01:17:54,240 --> 01:18:00,640
on the wall, it's just like you push yourself just to find a bit more than you thought it could be

843
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:09,520
possible. After like training with her for like a long time, I was like, okay, but she just gives

844
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:15,600
so much more. And I was thinking about that a lot. So, I like to train her a little bit more.

845
01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:23,760
I thought that a lot. So, I consciously tried to push it more. But it's very hard to put it in

846
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:28,400
words, brother. Yeah. Just like every move you do that feels on the limit, you just

847
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:38,560
you give more than you could possibly give. And it's funny. I've talked to one of the coaches

848
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:47,120
in the Slovenian team. I feel like if you try hard, one move can wear you down so much that

849
01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:52,560
you're going to feel it like three days. Like one try on one move. If you really try hard,

850
01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:57,440
if you really push your body. I wonder if I try hard. I don't know. I got to think about it.

851
01:18:58,480 --> 01:19:07,600
I don't want to be mean, but I'm sure you're not. I think most people don't. I genuinely think that

852
01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:13,920
most people don't. I think I've gotten better at it, but it was really bad before. Yeah.

853
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:20,480
Last question anyway. This one came from Matt. So, I wonder if this is just like a macro. So,

854
01:19:20,480 --> 01:19:25,120
I just wonder if it's, yeah, I don't know. Maybe he's just trolling. He just says,

855
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:32,400
how can I be like you? I think he's just trolling. Yeah. I mean, are you guys close?

856
01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:36,880
I mean, we've gotten closer. Yeah. Because of all the traveling and

857
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:42,800
I think he's cool. We're friends and it's cool having him around in the circuit.

858
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:50,000
Did you ever like co-commentate? I'm not sure if I've ever done it with Matt. I've done it with

859
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:57,520
Charlie. Oh really? Charlie was still around. Yeah. Not a lot. I don't think people should

860
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:00,880
be listening to me on streams. I don't think my English is good enough to be.

861
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:06,080
Oh, that's not true. That's not true at all. Yeah. I think you should be professional doing

862
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:09,520
it. So, I don't think it's the best idea to have that. Even though I think there is

863
01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:15,360
a certain element that the adverts can bring, but yeah, I didn't like doing it that much.

864
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:23,600
Oh really? Okay. Well, I mean, you commentated a bit for the, I forget what it was,

865
01:20:24,400 --> 01:20:27,360
just for like some of the competitions you had set recently, right?

866
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:32,080
Oh yeah, Doc Masters. But that wasn't really commenting, was it? It was just more talking

867
01:20:32,080 --> 01:20:38,080
about setting and builders. It wasn't like on the stream speaking about climbing. I don't think my

868
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:44,160
brain works fast enough to do that job. Oh really? Okay. Okay, cool. Well, I think that's all the

869
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:48,480
questions I had then. Do you have any like final thoughts or words of wisdom you want to get out

870
01:20:48,480 --> 01:20:54,880
there? I don't think I'm wise enough to give words of wisdom. Oh, come on. I feel like you've been

871
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:59,840
saying that a lot, that you're not good at whatever and whatever else, but I mean, come on.

872
01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:07,440
You gotta have a little something. Train harder. Okay. All right. Well, yeah, that's all I had for

873
01:21:07,440 --> 01:21:11,760
today. Thanks for joining me. You want to let people know where they can find you?

874
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:19,200
I'm in the gym most of the time now. Yeah. Other than that, I'm on Instagram. I will link that in

875
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:26,160
the description. Well, awesome. Thank you again. And it was amazing to talk to you. Thanks for having

876
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:31,600
me. Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe

877
01:21:31,600 --> 01:21:37,280
if you enjoyed. Otherwise, you are a super fake climber. If you're listening on a podcasting

878
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:43,040
platform, I'd appreciate if you rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion on the free

879
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:55,920
competition climbing discord linked in the description. Thanks again for listening.