As for the youngsters, I think Jenny Buckley is, she's the next star.
I was always sort of afraid that I'm going to be lost once I'm done competing
because it is such a big part of your identity, like at that level.
It's all you do, it's all you think about.
My wife was pregnant most of the 24 seasons, so I was like, I was like so excited,
yeah, to get a baby and yeah.
I wonder if I try hard.
I don't know.
I got to think about it.
I don't want to be mean, but I'm sure you're not.
Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast.
I'm your host Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today, Gregor Vezonik.
Gregor is a boulder and lead climber from Team Slovenia, but he recently retired a few
months ago from competitions.
In this episode, we'll get insight into the powerful Slovenian team, how he made the
decision to retire and all the planning around it, what it's like climbing with Janja,
and we get to hear him geek out about holds and hold shaping.
It was really exciting for me to hear about how much love and psych he still has for the
comp scene. So I hope you enjoy this episode with Gregor.
Real quick, I'm excited to announce my new sponsor helping make this podcast episode
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Info will be in the description.
Back to the show.
Where are you at right now?
I'm at a climbing gym.
It looks very clean.
Oh, okay.
Okay. Yeah.
Were you setting today?
I was. Yeah, I was setting in the morning.
I was working on a spray wall, actually.
Setting on a spray wall?
Yeah, setting the spray wall, like resetting it.
What goes into setting like a spray wall?
Or can you just like put stuff up wherever?
Do you actually have to like think about it?
I think most people don't know how to use spray walls, so it's really hard for them
to like set spray walls as well.
But I think, yeah, a lot of Paul goes into setting a spray wall.
Really?
Okay.
Yeah.
I always thought you just like throw whatever old holds you have up there now.
No, it's not like that.
It's yeah, it's the way I do it is I start at the bottom, like the quarter and I add
and then I go from there because I feel like in one square meter, there should be all
type of grip types and like directions and all of that.
So a lot goes in.
Yeah.
So you've like seen a lot of like bad spray walls then?
I think most of the spray walls are bad.
Oh, starting out with a hot take already.
Okay.
So what's like a bad spray wall versus a good one?
I mean, it depends what you want, right?
Like who the people are going to be, they're going to be climbing on it.
But if you're setting for like a high level, most spray walls have too many jugs on it.
Most spray walls have the footholds that are too good.
A good sign of a bad spray wall is also like in like one small spot you have very similar
holds turned into very like similar directions.
So you have like three pinches that are all in like kind of diagonal.
That's not good because it just doesn't offer as much as it could.
It was funny, a couple of years ago, I saw the new training, like USA Climbing Training
Center for the first time.
It was the one that they just moved and Nathaniel Coleman and Ben Hanek kind of took me
through the whole thing and they showed me the spray wall and the boulders and stuff.
And they were like, they were super psyched about it because obviously it's a really good place.
And they were like, oh, what do you think of the spray wall?
I was like, I think it's shit.
I don't think it's that good.
And at first I thought I was joking.
And then, yeah, then we started talking about it and like we kind of like, and then I talked
to Josh as well and he was like, oh yeah, we have to change a lot of things because
yeah, it's not ideal.
It's not like optimal.
So did they change it after?
They did.
Yeah.
Okay.
They did.
And then like the last few years that I've seen it, it's like now it's really good.
And I'm not saying I'm the person that changed it or anything.
I just, yeah, it's gotten like significantly better every year that I see it now.
Well, that's good for us, I guess.
Yeah, that's interesting to know.
I mean, I don't really climb on a spray wall that often because I don't think I climb at
a high enough level where it's like, I don't run out of things in the gym.
So then I'm like, I don't really like having to memorize holds on a spray wall.
So I'm going to avoid it.
So yeah, I guess I never really thought about it, but yeah, that makes sense.
Okay.
So I guess getting into your background a little bit, just starting to think about it
starting from the beginning, how did you get started climbing and competing?
Yeah.
So I was born into a climbing family.
My parents are both climbers.
They met in a crag and then my brother is a competition climber.
So yeah, I was just kind of born into it.
I was raised in the crags.
Yeah.
So I spent most of my childhood outside in crags climbing, playing under rocks and stuff.
How old were you when you started like competing?
Cause I guess it doesn't sound like your parents competed.
My dad actually, I'm not sure if my mom competed, but my dad did compete.
He was, yeah, he competed at the first Yugoslavian national championships in,
I think it was in 86 and he got third.
Whoa.
Okay.
Yeah.
I remember he had this little cup that he got.
He was so proud of it.
And I started bringing home medals and stuff and he was like, oh, I still have my cup.
But I did, so I started competing nationals when I was eight or nine.
I think nine, but I did like divisionals and regionals before that.
So yeah, I started competing when I was young, but I started climbing even before that.
Basically, I don't remember the time when I wasn't climbing.
So I didn't actually start watching comps until maybe like, it's like kind of recent,
like maybe 2021 or 2022. So is your brother older?
I would assume.
He is older, but he never actually competed in the world cup level.
So yeah.
Gotcha.
Well, I guess since he also competed, did you ever feel like competitive against each other or like
against your dad?
Oh yeah.
I mean, my brother for sure.
Like we, when I started climbing, like training a bit harder, I guess, like 10, 11, whatever.
And he was still training and he was good.
Like we never could train together.
There's like, I don't think we ever did a training session together.
We were super competitive against each other.
Also we're like very different people and how you approach life.
So we just, yeah.
Also it's like, yeah, you know, like we're brothers four years apart.
So yeah, it's, I think it's kind of tough for boys that age to really get along as brothers.
Especially if you're in like a, especially if you're in like a competitive environment as we were,
we're both competition climbers.
I mean, although I guess if you're four years apart, you're not really competing against
each other in like the same category or anything like that?
Yeah, we weren't in the same category, but yeah, I do, I do feel like there was competition between
us.
I see. Who was like the, was there like anger involved?
Is it like, or like what did that look like?
I don't think there was like actual anger, but it's just like, yeah, I don't know.
It's hard to explain.
I think we just had such a different outlook to life that we also approached climbing differently.
And that's why it just never worked, which like now looking back, I'm kind of sad we didn't do it.
Because, you know, we could have learned from each other, I guess, but yeah, it just didn't happen.
And that's okay.
I mean, are you guys like still competitive nowadays or?
No, no, no, no.
Okay.
No, we're quite, we're quite close now.
Okay.
It's very different now.
Yeah.
What would you say is like his approach to climbing versus yours?
That's so different.
He was always kind of like really into being like super strong climbers.
Like really into being like super strong, doing one arm pull ups, like just campusing stuff.
And I was more of a, because I'm, I naturally, I'm really weak.
So I had to rely on all other stuff and I was studying climbing a lot, like the movement and,
you know, all these sorts of stuff.
So yeah, I think that's the main difference that we had.
And he was like this, he was like this big jacked dude, like had a huge biceps.
I was a skinny kid, no muscles.
Huh.
Well, it's interesting you would say that like naturally you're weak,
but like you guys are brothers.
So same, same kind of genes, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think it's just because I think he started training when he was like actual training when
he was younger than me.
And so I was more, I was sort of like just climbing and you know, doing it as a fun activity.
I had other stuff going on and he was like really early on, he was really focused just on climbing.
And so he was actually training and I was more sort of like just climbing, discovering movement
and playing around.
So I think because he started doing that so early, he developed like more muscles,
he got stronger and I just didn't.
So yeah, I guess same genes, but different approach.
Okay, interesting to know.
Okay, so you're kind of like, well, you are the first Slovenian athlete that I've interviewed.
So I kind of have some general questions about climbing in Slovenia.
It's a pretty small country.
So what do you think makes the team so dominant?
Is there like a long climbing history there?
Yeah, I mean, the country is really small.
There's like 2 million of us.
But yeah, the history is, yeah, we have so much history of alpinists and then rock climbers
and then competition climbers.
I think there's like three things that make the team so good.
Like first of all, I think because we've had competition climbers for so long,
we have a long history of coaching as well.
So our coaches are very knowledgeable.
So they basically know what they're doing.
They know how to train.
And I feel like that knowledge has been transferred from the old coaches
to the new coaches for the last, I don't know, 25, 30 years, maybe even, yeah, 35 years.
So yeah, we have really good coaches.
Secondly, because the country is so small
and we've had successful competitors since forever.
I think we had a first world champion, Martina Cufar.
She won world championships, I want to say 2003.
And after that, we've had, and before that, we had Aljosha Gram, who was on a World Cup podium.
And after that, obviously, we had so many good competitors.
And I feel like if, because the country is so small,
there is like a really big chance you're going to interact with those people.
So, you know, if you're close to someone who's that good,
it just kind of makes you realize that, you know, it's possible.
The person who's winning the World Cup is also just a human.
They're not like some freaks that you like.
They're not doing something that's not possible for you.
And then thirdly, I think we have like a really good program from when we're kids to when we're adults.
So basically, like for me, I joined the youth team, like the national youth team when I was 13 or whatever.
And because we have such a good tradition of training and coaching,
when I was 13, I was kind of put into this environment where everybody was training.
And that's what like, I kind of understood what training means, what you need to do to be good.
And then it sort of like for me became a way of life.
And if you start to develop these habits that are going to make you successful in the future,
and you just like keep doing that for years and years and years.
And if you have whatever, if you're going to throw 25 kids into the youth team or 30,
you know, those are already handpicked.
And then if you have like 25, 30 talents in the team,
eventually they're going to be good when they're 21, 22 or whatever, 25.
So I think these are the three main things that make us good.
Because in reality, like infrastructure was really bad a couple of years ago,
because we still only have, okay, I'll have to call them.
I think we have like seven commercial gyms in the country,
but we probably have 30 different spray walls.
Oh, really? Okay.
Yeah.
So you are the spray wall expert then, okay.
Or maybe even like 50 spray walls. I don't know.
But it's just like people are training.
There's a lot of small clubs and they all have reasonably good training programs.
And also like in a very young age, like you get,
you're just so close to everybody who's competing.
So, you know, you sort of like, my kids sort of feed of each other
and learn stuff from each other.
And they get it, like they have a chance to climb together more often than kids in the US,
because they live, you know, like a six hour flight to parks.
Yeah.
Here, you know, everything is two hours away.
So you like grow up just training on a spray wall instead of like commercial gyms?
Oh, yeah. I grew up training on a spray wall. Absolutely.
Like my parents, my parents are both climbers, so we would drive to Austria a lot.
Also, I grew up, you know, five kilometers, six kilometers from the Austrian border,
and they did have a lot of commercial gyms, but it was mostly elite.
So like for me, I would drive, we would drive to Austria reasonably, like a lot.
Yeah. Like reasonably frequent.
But other than that, it was just like spray walls all the time.
Yeah. I find it interesting that people would be interested in getting into climbing
if they only have access to a spray wall.
Yeah. Well, I think you're looking at it from the perspective of,
sort of your bubble.
Yeah.
I'm assuming you don't have a lot of, I don't actually know,
but what's the closest rock climbing crag to you? Like how far do you have to drive?
Well, I don't climb outside, so I actually don't know. Half an hour? Yeah.
Okay. Like where I grew up, there's like probably like 12 crags within 20 minutes with the car.
Okay. I see.
So like a lot of climbers in Slovenia up to recently kind of grew up rock climbing.
We're only now like the last seven years or, you know, maybe I won't overreact,
maybe it's been longer, but because I feel like in the U S you guys have like a,
like I would assume the majority of climbers are indoor climbers in Slovenia.
The majority of climbers is rock climbers.
So maybe, you know, the spray wall is not the thing that kind of drives you in,
but sort of like rock climbing gets you in. And then because you want to get better at
rock climbing, you have the spray walls that are going to make you better.
And then does the Slovenian team like train together a lot?
Yeah. Yeah. We do have, because we also have the training center in Ljubljana in our capital.
And just like, like we have it for the last four, three, three or four years,
but even before that we train together a lot. But we, even before that we train together a lot.
Like now I feel like every week there's new boulders, there's like comp simulation,
there's like, yeah, just a lot of stuff you can train on. And most of the people on the team live
kind of like, yeah, close to the training center, like an hour drive maximum. So,
I mean, obviously it's really good to train with people that are on a high level.
Yeah. They're going to push you. And then in terms of, I guess, like athlete funding,
I know it varies a lot country to country. So did you feel like you were able to make
a full living just being an athlete? Yeah. And in Slovenia, it's actually
like really good. We do complain a lot, but I think because we're, I mean, I should say,
we did complain a lot. I'm not part of the team anymore, but I think we got spoiled. But in reality,
if you're like, if you are selected for the comps, everything is going to be funded.
So you don't spend any money. Also, once you get to like, if when you get to a certain level,
if you're lucky enough, you're going to get employed by the government. So there's like,
most of the athletes on the team are employed by the army. I was employed by the police,
which means, you know, you get, you get salary, you get
insurance paid, social security, whatever, you know, everything is like you're an employee.
Okay, that's good. And I mean, you're not going to be like, once you're done with comps, you're
not going to be a rich person from it. But yeah, you're making a living. It's not like you're
spending money for climbing. You may see you are a professional. Yeah. So it's really good.
Yeah. Okay. And so I guess as you're exiting, who on the Slovenian team do you think is going to be
one to watch out for coming up the ranks? I think there's, you know, the usual suspects
that has been have been on the scene for so long. You know, you got the
Janja, Vita, Lučka, Mia, Ruka, and all the rest you've done so well in the past. I don't think
things are going to change drastically in the next few years. As long as they compete, they're all
on a really high level. As for the youngsters, I think Jenny Buckley is. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah,
I think she's the she's the next star. I just talked to her recently. I don't think she's just
like super talented. I think she's also like very mature for her age, has the like work ethics. And
yeah, if it all goes well, if she stays healthy and everything, I think she's got a really bright
future. And I'm sure I'm missing people out. To be honest, I'm not that involved with the youth
team. So it was really fun. I was setting a youth simulate like for I'm setting a lot for the team
now. And I like it like a month ago, I was setting for the youth team. And it's like, I want to see
who's coming. So I just know the level and stuff. And I checked it. I checked the list. I was like,
Oh, my God, I don't know anyone. I should get more involved. Yeah. Yeah. Well, now you know a little
better after setting for them, I guess. Yeah, yeah, no, it's gotten significantly better in
the last month. So going back a little bit again to your like competition career, what do you feel
like was your career highlight? I there's the obvious to I think, winning World Cup and
yeah, podium at the World Championships. Is there anything that's like not a win that really stands
out to you? There's a couple of comps where I did like, reasonably well. But going there, I was like,
I felt like shit. I was tired. I had pain. And I remember, I'm not gonna remember which
year it was. It was like one of the Mayeringen comps. It was the first comp of the season.
I was like shit for three weeks before the comp. I didn't make finals at the National Cup.
I had pain in my shoulder. I was like, why am I going to this comp? I even had like a conversation
with my coach. Like should I be going to this comp? And then I got there, kind of switched it on.
I ended up eighth or ninth, which is not too bad. Yeah, it was pretty good. So there and there's
like a couple of comps like that where I would go to, I don't know, we'd go to Asia and I
wouldn't sleep. It felt like shit, you know, but still kind of switched it on and had a good result.
Those are those were always special. But because the, you know, the result was not the podium
finish. You don't remember it as much. Yeah. Any like traveling highlights?
Everything was a highlight. Really? Well, you like the traveling part?
Yeah, it's just such an amazing life to live. You get to travel the world. You see all these amazing
places. You're traveling with your friends and you get to do the thing you love the most.
For some years in between, I was kind of like sick of it. But I was just like maybe me being too
obsessed with the results and not like looking at a bigger picture and being like, okay, I'm super
privileged to be doing this. This is all amazing. But it's very easy to get like, because you just
get so blindsided. The only thing you see are results in climbing and it's just like,
yeah, but every I feel like my all my years traveling global and competing with that was
all highlight for sure. I mean, yeah, because like sometimes if you are like nervous for a
competition, I'm sure you don't even really get to experience the traveling part.
Most of the time, at least for me, that's how that's how I function is like how we go to a
comp and like a lot of the time people on the team would like make fun of me that I'm going to run
out of like I'm in deep. It's like we would get somewhere, you know, stay in the hotel, go training
and then go back to the hotel. I'm also like I'm a very picky eater. So a lot of the time I would
just eat in a microwave-powered room. I wouldn't even go to restaurants. I think I've been to Tokyo
I think I've been to Tokyo I want to say eight times and I've never explored Tokyo.
Like people ask me how Japan is. Yeah, it's good. But in reality, I've never explored it that much.
We're just like, but it's I'm not saying everyone's doing that. It was just
my comfort zone. That's how I felt like I should be functioning. And sometimes it works. Sometimes
it didn't. Yeah. Well, so then if you didn't actually experience any of the traveling part,
then what did you like about traveling? I still experienced it more than not being there. You know
what I mean? I didn't. I wasn't I wasn't you know, like, yes, I was traveling the world, but I wasn't
a traveler. You know, I wasn't going there on vacation. I wasn't exploring different cities.
Yeah, a tiny bit. Yes. But but still, you know, you get this even if you like if you're just in
the hotel room, if you're driving around the city, still get to experience different cultures,
different cities and countries. I find it interesting that you're a picky eater,
because I also feel like I'm kind of a picky eater. So sometimes traveling and traveling gets weird.
But I feel like it's really hard if you need to like stay fueled and like compete and perform.
So when you're traveling, did you have like a go to meal that is like good for that?
Because I would love to know. I think it was pretty bad with my diet. Like to be honest,
I don't think it was a well balanced diet. Because I am a vegetarian. So you know,
by all scientific data, I'd be I'd have to be like peeling up on protein differently. And I
wasn't really taking care of that. I remember like I ate a lot of like instant ramen stuff.
Oh, wow. For competitions. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I would have like protein bars and stuff. But
I don't think I was the I was a very good example of what an ad-sense diet should look like.
So you didn't even have like, vegetables before a competition?
No, no, obviously, like I'll have vegetables and fruit and all that stuff. But yeah, not ideal.
Yeah. So as a picky eater, what's like the most popular food that people like that you can't
stand? I mean, meat is a big one, isn't it? Well, I don't think you can say that you're a vegetarian.
So that makes you a picky eater. Like, oh, you don't like food just because it like tastes bad
or something. Eggplants, olives. There's a really weird one. I get like really bad migraines, like
going to the hospital bed. And I figured one of the one of my triggers is cheese.
That's fair. So I haven't had cheese in like eight years. And that's like,
imagine going to France and you can't eat cheese or going to Italy. And it's like everything's
cheese infused. So that's like, it's such a pain in the ass. You know, like you go to the pizzeria
and like, well, I guess I'm gonna have pizza without cheese. Well, does it like work? Like
you don't have those migraines anymore? Yeah.
It's getting better. Yeah. It's not just connected to that. I think it's like connected to a lot of
things. They're also, I've heard they're like, how do you call that? Like you sort of get them
from your parents or your grandparents. I mean, I do too. So, okay. And I think my dad does. So,
yeah, I've been to the South Lake City Hospital twice because of the migraines.
Twice because of the migraine. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So it's like happened during
comps. Yeah. There was only one comp that I couldn't do because of a migraine.
Like South Lake City was always a tough one for me. I don't know why. Maybe the air quality,
maybe it's the travel because it's kind of far. Elevation maybe. I'm not sure what the elevation
there is, but yeah. No, yeah. I relate to that. Can't imagine what it'd be like doing competitions
with a migraine. That would be really bad. It's impossible. Yeah. I guess like what happened
in Salt Lake, it just like hits and then you just... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's like two,
three years ago I had two. Our qualities when they were in the afternoon and in the morning,
I got one and like I'm all the time was lying in the hospital. I was like, okay, this is going to
get better. I'm going to get ready for like these qualities and then I just didn't. Which sucked
because I traveled to Salt Lake to lay in bed for five days. Oh, it was for that long. Wow. Yeah.
Maybe it was for... It didn't last that long, but I was kind of like not functional,
functioning properly for like, yeah, a couple of days. Yeah. They suck. I don't actually like
talking about them. Well, I'm just curious about your experience. I guess we don't have to go on,
but it's just like, yeah, I don't know that many other people who, I mean, who get them that bad.
Mine are not that bad. Like mine are stoppable with like prescription medication, which is good.
Mine are not and I sometimes I can't speak anymore. Sometimes like I remember like a couple
of times when it happened abroad, I was just like, I don't know how to speak English anymore. And then
I'll like, I'll have to have someone else talk to the staff because I'm just like, I... One time I
thought I was having a stroke because I couldn't speak. You get like the whole, all of the side
effects like Aura's like knowledge. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Wow. Fun times. Yeah. I guess in that case,
it's like pretty impressive still able to like still being able to do competitions because I
always feel like, oh, that's so annoying. Like it takes away so many days from my training.
Yeah. But yeah, like to be fair, they were never that like, they didn't happen that often.
Like they weren't that frequent. So yeah, got quite lucky with that. Well, yeah. Thanks for
sharing that. That was good for me to know. Okay. So now going into like your retirement process,
what goes, like what went into making your decision to retire? It's definitely not an easy decision
to make. Please excuse this brief intermission, but if you're interested in deleted scenes from
this episode, where we talk about transitioning from outdoors to competitions and setting for
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I've, yeah, it's a really hard decision, but I sort of always had like, I don't know why,
but for some reason I've always kept like thinking like 10 years ahead, like what I want to achieve,
but what my life, like what I imagine my life would be like in the next 10 years and like
sort of the milestones I want to hit. And I think I've had the idea of quitting in 2024
since 2018 or something like that. Yeah. I was like, okay, I'm not going to be doing Tokyo
Olympics. If the format changes, I might have a small chance of making Paris. Paris would be
a good way to stop the career. And then I was always like, okay, even if I don't make Paris,
I always knew the chances are really small. Maybe I didn't even take the chance.
Maybe I thought the chances are too small and that's why I wasn't even close. But I was always
like, okay, yeah, like 2024 is the year I'm done. I'll be 29 years old. And then, you know, I still
have so much stuff to do in my life. So yeah, sort of always had that plan.
Was kind of so that this like when 2024 came, it wasn't the hard decision because I've always
knew that was going to happen. What was hard was in like 2023 when I had like a really bad season.
I was like, okay, should I be like, why am I doing this for one more year? I was sort of
contemplating if I should just quit or so that was the plan. And then I was like, okay,
so that was tough. But once the last comp came in 2024, I was just like, I was very okay with the
decision. I also like kind of, I made kind of prepared my life in terms of like, I knew the
stuff that I'll be doing once I'm done with my career. I kind of laid the groundwork. So yeah,
I was like, also like my wife was pregnant most of the 24 seasons. So I was like,
I was like so excited. Yeah, to get a baby. And yeah, I wasn't like what when this,
it was obviously very emotional at the last comp, but still I was not like sad that I'm leaving. And
before the season started, I was also like very, it's like, okay, this is my last season. I'm going
to like enjoy everything, everything, everything and stay in the moment and everything. Sort of
I was like saying goodbye to this life for like a year. And it was good. It was good.
Ruthie That's good to know like ahead of time. Did you feel like relief when it was over or just like
bittersweet or happy?
Jan No, I didn't feel the relief. I didn't feel bittersweet. I was just like very satisfied with
how my career ended. Yeah, it was just like, this is it. Now it's time to do all other stuff. I'm
very happy I had this life. I feel very privileged. I got to experience all that. And so yeah, I was
just satisfied. Ruthie Yeah. Did you have any like fears before retiring about what would come after
or what you would do? Jan I honestly don't think I did just because I've been, I was always sort of
afraid that I'm going to be lost once I'm done competing because it is such a big part of your
identity. Like at that level, it's all you do. It's all you think about. So because I was afraid
that that's going to happen to me, I did like lay there groundwork and prepared. Yeah, I, I,
I knew, I sort of prepared myself. I started climbing whole brand, you know,
and I was just like, okay, now and I knew I wanted to be a setter. So I was like, okay,
I'm not walking away from something. I'm walking towards something. And
Ruthie That's a good way to put it.
Jan Yeah. So it was like, for me, it was just like really good experience.
Ruthie And like now that you're a few months out, how does it feel?
Jan I've been so busy with everything. I don't really think I had...
Ruthie You don't feel. Okay.
Jan Yeah, I know. I didn't have time to think about it. Also, I've been very involved with like
the Slovenian team with setting and most of my best friends are on the team anyway. So I talk to
them. I know I'm still very much involved in the competition scene. So I don't feel like I'm,
I'm not outside that much. I do wonder what's going to happen when the season starts and I'll
be looking at World Cups, but I think I'll just be like psyched to watch my friends compete and
do well. And yeah, it's all good. It's all good.
Ruthie Makes sense. Are you still going to like travel or just like watch from watch online?
Jan I don't think I'll be watching any of the comps this year. Obviously,
Kopr, yeah, the one in Slovenia, like the elite comp, I'll watch that.
Ruthie Watch as in like go in person.
Jan Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like everything else, I probably just watch like streams.
Ruthie Yeah.
Jan It also depends like where I'll be globally because I'll be traveling quite a lot in next
year. So maybe some of the travels sort of cross with the comps, but yeah, we'll see.
Ruthie And so I guess in a more general sense,
well, also like congrats on having a baby. That's really exciting.
Jan Thank you.
Ruthie And I'm glad that you're excited for it.
In a more general sense with like all the new stuff you're working on and like also being a new
parent, that's like a huge time commitment. How do you come to terms with no longer being able to
perform at your best? Especially I feel like for a lot of younger listeners who are still in a phase
where you're supposed to like constantly improve. I mean, even just for like newer climbers, you're
supposed to like always be improving. Plateaus are like the worst thing in the world for a lot of
people. Like the thought of not improving or like even declining is kind of like terrifying. Not
that you're declining, like you're certainly still one of the top athletes. But you know what I mean?
Jan I can identify with being like very frustrated when the plateaus happen,
when you're not getting that good. I remember like I think about it now, it's like most of the days
when I was in a bad mood or wasn't really psyched, like I'm not in a depressed way, but
when I was just unhappy with myself was because of the feeling I got on the wall. So like I was very
very... basically, yeah, it defined me a lot, like how good I'm climbing. But I feel like now with
saying goodbye to comps, I sort of also said goodbye to being strong. I'm not very frustrated
when I'm not strong. The only time I get frustrated if I feel bad is when I'm setting.
But not knocking away that oh, I'm shit, I can't do that move. It's more like
I wish I was stronger distance, you know, it would make the job so much easier.
Because if you're setting at a high level, there's a difference if you have to
try a move four times to get the feeling of it or if you can get close in the first try.
So the only reason... I'm taking April off setting because I want to train because I feel like now I
sort of work too much and didn't train at all. So I'm taking April off just to get back in shape,
sort of. I'll never be in the shape I was, but just to make setting easier. Because I also feel
like I owe it to the athletes that I'm setting for.
So I guess the way you kind of got over that feeling was just it was no longer your life,
like you didn't define yourself, I guess, by how you're climbing.
Yeah, it's also like a lot of comp climbers when they're done with their career, they're like,
they still train hard because they want to do hard stuff outside. It is sort of sad, but
I'm on that side to do hard stuff outside. Maybe because I'm too much into setting and
just this whole industry. I do hope I get psyched for rock climbing again, because I think it's
like a really good way of living your life. But I'm not like specifically training to do stuff outside.
I'm just not motivated for it and I've come to terms with it, even though my 16-year-old self
would hate me. But it's just how I feel at the moment and how my life works right now and
yeah, I'm okay with that.
Yeah, that's fine. I mean, you can make more money setting than you can climbing outside,
I guess.
Yeah, but it's not, I mean, I'm not looking at rock climbing as a way of making me, you know,
living, you know, it's just like, I think it's just like, I think it's just like,
you know, making a living, you know, it's just like, in my head when I was younger,
I've always had this idea, okay, when I stop competing, I'll be climbing hard stuff outside.
Not necessarily as a way of making money, it's just like I was psyched to do hard stuff.
And now I'm just out.
No, I think that makes sense. I mean, like as a kid, before I had money, I was like, I'm gonna,
when I have money, I'm gonna buy RuneScape premium and I'm gonna play that all day.
And then I never ended up doing that. So I think it makes sense. It's fair.
So yeah, now that you are doing more setting, how are you looking at compared to just competing?
I feel like before looking at like a round, let's say a comp simulation,
I haven't done that many competitions, but I hadn't said that many competitions,
but I said like quite a lot of training stuff now is before it was just like, how can I,
there was a round, okay. And I did whatever, one world or two world or whatever,
before I was like, okay, how do I improve? Like how do I change as a setter, as a climber to do
better next time? And I'm just like, after a round, like how do I improve as a setter to,
you know, to offer the athletes a better training or a better competition? So it's a,
it's a, oh yeah, before I was, yeah, before I was thinking about performance and now I just
think about the product on the wall. Did you set while you were climbing too or competing?
Yeah, yeah. Not like, not in the last six years, because I didn't have to like money-wise,
but basically I started setting when I was really, really young. I think I set my first
competition when I was probably like 12 years old or something. Also when I was like, when I
started training a bit harder and nobody at the local club was really that strong. So the spray
wall was kind of easy. Like very quickly I started changing the spray wall. So I think
my first setting experience was probably like 10, 11 years old. And because my dad was also such
like an important part of the club, he sort of showed me how to do stuff. And so yeah,
I've been setting for a long time and yeah, you know, like 2015, 16, 17, I did a lot of setting.
Just cause yeah, I was away. Basically what I did is after the season, I would go somewhere, set for
like a month when I had my off season, just to make enough money to, you know, to make it through
six, seven months of competition a season. How much do you feel like setting while competing
helped versus hurt? Cause I could see how setting while competing maybe helps you get into the
mindset of what the setter wants, but it's also like so physical. So like it takes away from
training. I mean, if you want to be doing it, like you're not going to be a successful competitor.
You're going to be setting, you know, multiple days a week, but if you do get into setting when
you're young, can you do it once a month or whatever you try to sort of experience with moves,
you are going to understand the movement better. So you're going to call that a better timer.
You're going to be reading routes from older is better because you kind of understand what the
setter, what the setter's process was. And I feel like for me, it helped a lot, especially like slabs
and coordination stuff. You know, you, if you are a setter, you look at a whatever, you look at a
move and you see how the holds are positioned and you do get the idea what, how it should be working.
And I think it helps, it shouldn't be a regular thing because it's a physical job and
you're setting six, seven hours a day to train after that. It's impossible. I mean, you can do
it for some times, but if you're going to be doing it for like a couple of months, couple of years,
it's just, it's not going to work. You're going to be too tired. It's too physical.
Any aspirations of like becoming an IFSC setter one day?
Yeah, I do. I like, I really want to get into it. First of all, I want to be,
I want to be, I still want to be part of the scene because I like the community so much.
I also think comms are the coolest thing ever. Like, and I also like, I love setting, like setting
is basically it's my hobby. I wouldn't say it's my job because yeah, it's not. My primary job is
having a whole brand. I'm doing setting because I really want to be setting.
That's good to hear.
And I feel like, if you're a timer, the highest level you can compete, like the highest level
you can achieve as a competitor is, you know, workups. And it's the same for setters, like
the highest level you can compete, like you can get to as a setter is a workout. So yeah, I want
to be trying out concepts. I want to be putting stuff on the wall for the best climber in the
world basically and see what's possible. That's really good to hear. I mean, even though like
I'm doing a comp climbing podcast, I feel like a lot of the people I even interview are like,
I rarely hear that someone say that they think comps are the coolest thing ever.
So that's good to hear. You know, I have my problems with
formats or format is a bad case, but I do see problems with comps, but I still think like
getting the strongest climbers in the world together and have them fight it out. And like
there's some moments that happen where you're like, how did this just happen? This is incredible.
And I do also like, I respect the commitment of the athletes so much because I know how much
they're putting in and then to see what the level is, like where you can get and the stuff you can
do if you really commit. It's just so cool. Yeah, no, that's awesome. Okay. And you talked about the
hold shaping. That's your, I guess your main thing. For those who don't know, which I feel like
there's probably a lot of people, I mean, I don't really know anything about hold shaping.
How does it work? Basically, well, it's very rough. You get a block of foam. It's a sort of foam.
And then you can either kind of sculpt it, carve it by hand, you use all these different tools.
And then they make the molds, whatever, that's a totally different process. Or you can
shape the hold on your computer. I don't know how that works. I'm really bad with computers.
And then have like a CNC machine cut it out. But it's basically, yeah, it's
all the stuff you see on the wall, somebody had to come up with. And yeah, it was most of the stuff
is shaped by hand on like a foam block. Well, so that's just the shaping process.
But then the actual production is just like regular factory stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like totally different. Like I feel like a lot of
like a lot of the shapers are basically just sculptors. They're artists who are producing
stuff. I don't think I'm an artist. I think I'm really actually pretty bad at the...
I think I've done some good stuff, but I wouldn't say I'm talented. But like
some shapes that I see are just like this is artwork. But it's also like, by the end of the
day, it can't just be artwork. It has to be a product. So it has to be functioning. And also
it's like a product design. It's very similar to setting. Because you can put stuff on the wall,
it's going to look pretty. You can recreate the flower with holes or whatever. But that's art.
But as a setter, you have to create a product that's going to function. So I feel like it's
very similar process with shaping. It's like you're an artist, but at the same time,
you're a product designer. So the products have to work.
I guess, like, are there any specific shapes or holes that come to mind that really stand out to you?
There's so much stuff that I like.
I find it quite incredible. There's some of the flat hole stuff, like the Relial set.
I'm pretty sure it's like 14 years old. It's still getting used to it. And it's a very simple shape,
but it still works so well. And then you have the Enterprise, now Cheetah, shape, like the big
Tadji. That was shaped like 15 years ago. It still works amazingly. Or if you look at 360 stuff,
it's like, most of their stuff is just a circle. It's so simple, but it works so well. And they
keep coming up with new stuff in that shape. But then on the other hand, you've got stuff like,
I can get really into details. I'm like super nerdy about finding holes.
It's like, if you look at some of the stuff that people have been doing with like recreating rock
types, if you look at like Bluestone, which is not very common in the US. But if you look at like the
details on their font range, it's like the hole looks exactly like a piece of rocking font.
Or if you look at Kilter's granite range, it's just like, how do you do that?
But there's also like, I get nerdy. Like every time I walk into a gym, and it's been like that
forever, I would go around, just touch the holes. And like some stuff, I'm just like, how is this
so comfortable? So it's about like comfort and ergonomics and... It is, but it's also like
a function, you know, it's function and it's just so much. If you think about like, some people find
root setters like super creative and they're like, oh, how did you do that? But if you take like even
like a step back, somebody had to create the project that then the setters are going to use.
So it's like, for me, shaping is sort of like one level or one step before the setting even starts.
So it's sort of like carving out a piece of foam, but already thinking about the movement is going
to make it possible. Okay. So I mean, I know you had listened to my episode with Nicky and Jake,
and they had some hold opinions. Yeah, I also listened to when you were on their podcast.
And I was glad to hear you call it out. That was a good moment for me. I was happy to hear that.
Yeah, so clearly some people have strong opinions on holds. And I think they had also said,
I had asked like, is there a hold that doesn't exist that needs to exist? And they vehemently
said no. So in terms of like, continuing to shape holds, like what more needs to be out there?
I don't think that there's like an answer to that question. Because it's sort of like,
it's sort of like asking, you know, a chef, what sort of a pasta shape do we need? And we're all
like, we have all the pasta shapes we need. And yet every now and then there's a new pasta shape
that changes how pasta is cooked. Like, do we need more dishes? Like actual food? No, we don't.
But and yet people come up with new dishes every year. So it's the same. It's like,
it's like inventing something new. It's just, yeah, there's, I think there's like unlimited potential.
Although I do think there is, now we're sort of stacking brands just copying each other,
sort of like following the trends. Which I'm not gonna shit on that because I think I'm guilty of
that as well. And I think it's just, in reality, it's just very hard to create something new.
But there is, I'm sure there is stuff, no outside, just outside of shaping as well. There's like
new materials we have to try. There's all these sorts of stuff that we have to play around with.
It's also like, as the sport is going to progress, it's like, we're going to notice, okay, what
I'm sure like there's a setter who's going to come up with a new move or whatever new sequence
and they're going to be like, oh, I don't have the right equipment to do that. And then, you know,
a shaper is going to come up with that and they're going to make that possible. But yes,
there's too many, too many whole brands in the world. There's the, I think the market's
pretty saturated right now. And yes, most of the brands are like, oh, I'm going to do this.
And yes, most of like a lot of the stuff has been discovered in the past.
But I think there's going to be new cool stuff coming up anyway. It's sort of like,
a person asked me the other day, like, why do you come up with a new range every year?
Like, do you need that? I was like, no, but you know, BMW makes a new car every year.
And it's, or like Apple makes new iPhone every year. It's just like, it's sort of better.
And then all the time stuff is just going to get better. And yeah, I'm still very,
very psyched for shaping. Okay. Yeah, that's good. I think that kind of goes into one of the
questions that came through on Instagram, which was what's your creative process when designing
a new hold? And how long does it take to move it into production? It's like very different from
time to time. You know, sometimes it's very quick. Sometimes it's very long. I do like
it's like, for me, there's like two types of shaping that I do. There's like shaping for myself
and shaping for my own brands or the shaping that I do for other brands. If I do stuff for
other brands, normally people come to me and they're like, this is what we want. Can you make
a hundred, 200, 300 of these just different for variations? Can you make a range? And that's like,
there's in reality, there's not a lot of creativity. Yeah, there's not a lot of creativity
there. When it comes to like creating a new range for myself, it can come from anything. It can
come from talking to a friend about holds, talking to a setter about moves. It can come from just,
a lot of the times it would just come from playing with the phone. It's like it is so closely
connected to the tools that you're using. So it's just like you're trying to do something new with
a tool and there's like this small detail that comes up and you're like, okay, this detail could
be the identity of the whole range. But I feel like making the first six, seven holds in your
range is the hardest. And once you have six or seven, you're like, sort of like, okay, this is
the idea. And then it's like very quick. How long it takes to get it to from shaping to production,
it just varies and how the factories are, you know, like how busy they are. I've shaped,
like in the last 13 months, I shaped, I think 900 shapes. And yeah, I did a lot, but I think
they're not all out yet. And some of them are shaped in August already. It's just such a long
process because they have to go through like the molding process. And then once that is done,
now there's all these other processes. And then in the end, they have to go to a photo studio
and then like photos have to be edited. They have to be put on a website. And it's just like,
it takes like the holds, once I'm done with the shaping, it's going to take a long time before
the holds are actually in the gym. So it all varies obviously.
Yeah. So like a few months to year, I guess. A year is a lot, but yeah, like it,
I think the most I've had is probably like six, seven months. Yeah.
Also, wait, I'm confused about shaping 900 holds. Like they're all different, like shapes?
Yeah. Yeah. They're all different shapes. Yeah. I was shaping for,
how many brands did I shape for this year? Six or seven? I was also like, I get very obsessed
with stuff. And when I was a kid, I got obsessed with climbing. And then at some point I was like,
okay, because I was working with 360, like a lot. And then I was like, okay, shaping is cool.
And I sort of got, I rented out like an old garage and just, I was like for three years,
I was sort of just like copying other holds, just to sort of get the idea of the work that you have
to do. And like this year I was sort of, okay, I'm going to make a thousand holds just so I can
perfect my craft. That's just sort of like, I'm going to be training more than anybody else.
Okay. And I think like some of the shapers, there's not a lot of shapers in the world,
but some of them have been shaping for 30 years or whatever. And I'm sort of like, okay,
I'm not going to catch up to them in years, but I might as well do like three times as much they
do in a year and sort of like do three years a year. So I just kept saying yes to all the different
like shaping jobs. Makes sense. But I guess I'm just like confused about the logistics. Like are
these all different shapes? Imagine this, like imagine I'm going to give you a very classic
example. Imagine you're creating a hold range that looks like apples, right? You know the theme is
going to be apples, right? An apple. This is how the hold is going to look like. And then you're
going to go through the process. Okay, I'm going to need 30 footholds. Okay, I'm going to put them
in three ranges of 10 footholds. So you create 30 small apples and then you're like, okay, I need
15 mini jugs. Like, okay, I need half of them has to be left hand, half of them have to be right hand.
So you're changing the shape slightly. Like you're getting bigger, smaller, like higher profile,
lower profile, slopey, juggy, whatever. So the idea is the same whole thing. So you're going to
create a range called apples, but you're kind of changing how the holds look like, sort of like
size wise and grip wide. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. It just sounds like a lot. Like I feel like
gyms don't even have 900 holds from like all different brands. You're so, so wrong. Yeah,
I have no idea. I have no idea. This is like blowing my mind. Please go to a whole brand
website today. Yeah. And I'm sure you're not obsessing about holds anyway, but like I'm sure
you have like a particular hold that you like or like a range. Like go to that brand's website
and look at how many different holes there is in range. And then they all look quite similar.
And maybe you're not even going to look like you're not going to notice they're different,
but they're very different. Yeah. I'll have to do some research because I guess when you're saying
holds, you're not just thinking of like the flagship or like standout holds. You're also
just talking about like small like foot chips or whatever. Yeah. I'm talking about everything,
you know, from the smallest chips, like to the biggest fiberless markers. And yeah.
Yeah. I'll have to take a look at that. So do you have any like hold hot takes, any thoughts on like
no-text holds or like the worst holds, worst materials? I don't like to talk shit about
like shapes. Just from the reason, because I know how hard it is to come up with something new or
how hard shaping is. Like if you've been through the process, it's just like,
this is a heinous process. And if I don't like something, it doesn't mean someone else is not
going to like it. So obviously I think there's some bad stuff on the market. But yeah. So
I don't have like a worst hold in my life. But in terms of like no-text,
I think it was a cool idea. Like when they came up with them in them and the world championships,
it was just like such a shock to the athletes. It was, they also just like,
they're doing their job, right? They were created for sort of like paddles and
sort of, they were created with an idea in mind. Like they know what they wanted to achieve with
those holds and they work really well for those things. I'm not a fan of now all the other brands
doing no-text holds. I just think that's like, okay, I don't think we need more of them.
Because like last year at the trade show in Europe, like most of the brands had no-text holds.
I don't think gyms need more of that. Basically those holds is like, you're going to sick to them
more if your hands are moist. And like we've seen athletes lick their hands at comps to get more
friction on it. I'm not sure if that's the best thing to do. And a lot of the times it's just like
not my favorite holds, but I'm very impressed with the fact that they came up with them. I think
they do their job. Yeah, just like the creative process behind this is just
something I can respect definitely. But I don't think more brands need to do it. It's been done,
it's okay. I don't think an average gym needs them.
So you're not going to make any no-text holds for your brand?
I don't think so. Or let me rephrase that. Maybe an average gym needs 10 of those,
but they don't need a no-text hold from every single brand on the planet.
What is the use other than I guess just like paddles when you're setting?
You can set everything with them. You use them as holds, it's just like that they don't have friction.
So yeah, they were originally meant as this like sort of electric new modern style products.
Obviously you can use them for everything else as well. You can set the V0 with them, why not?
I don't think it's the best idea. Yeah, and you put them in a step, they're all jugs. You put them on
a step, put them 20 centimeters apart and it's a V0.
Yeah, I guess so. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable doing a full V0 no-text climb.
I didn't say it's a good idea. I just said it's a good idea.
Yeah, okay, makes sense. All right, so I think those are all my questions. We can move into some
of the discord questions now. Some setting and hold shaping stuff. So the first one,
how do you see route setting and World Cup comps changing over the next decade?
Do you think there will be an evolution in styles or like specialized climbing?
Holds that competitors have like never touched before? Yeah, do you think there will be any
dramatic changes? I don't know what's dramatic for you, but I think we'll sort of see more and more
complex movement on bundles. Like when this whole parkour, whatever style came out, it was like
running on huge volumes, jumping on jugs and stuff, just trying to get as far as possible.
I think we're sort of going away from that. I think in the future, yes, there'll be a lot of
coordination, but on like bad holds, I think the ending positions are going to be more precise.
I hope we're going to go back to the beginning of the year,
but I hope we're going to go more in again in terms of not having boulders that are 12 meters wide.
Yeah, like more complex on worse holds. Also, I think like talking to some of the IFS
designers, I feel like we might be going back to more power stuff, which is good.
I feel like around should test the climber in all of the climbing aspects,
in all the styles, but it is like in the finals round, you only have four boulders. So in reality,
you have to choose all the climbing types that you're going to test them on.
I feel like right now, we're sort of like every comp has the same four or five different skills
that the comps are sort of like questioning. I feel like we maybe go a tiny bit away from that.
We introduce more styles in. I hope the setting will make it possible for the best
all-around climber to win comps. You can't say the best climber isn't winning right now.
I think the best climber is winning, but the best climber in the styles that are presented is winning.
And I'm not saying like it wouldn't be the same people winning. I'm just like maybe let's
introduce more styles. I guess what do you mean by like wanting it to be more like inwards?
It's just the size of the boulders. Like sometimes you see something ridiculous where it's like...
But why does that bother you?
Because I think we're...
It's very personal, but I don't like
moves that are hard just because they're long. Sort of like
a run across eight volumes where you jump from a really big jug to a really big jug in the end.
I think that's testing just one part of climbing. I think it should rather be running on three
volumes where the starting position is bad and the ending position is bad. Because I feel like that
sort of tests more things. Yes, it tests your timing, but it's not going to be the same
if you like that sort of tests more things. Yes, it tests your coordination, but it also
tests whether you're strong enough to pull from bad holds and whether your
balance is good enough to end the move in a weird position. So you get more aspects
tested than just having this gigantic moves.
Okay, makes sense. And so in terms of your hold shaping and setting,
does your setting inspire your hold shaping more or does your hold shaping inspire setting more?
I think it feeds off each other. It's just like when I'm setting, I'm thinking about shaping.
When I'm shaping, I'm thinking about setting. So it's sort of like a connected thing that
you just, for me, one doesn't work without the others, probably. I could probably be setting
if I was in the shaper. But yeah, I get the inspiration in shaping and in setting.
I guess is there any time when you're setting where you're like, oh, I really wish I had this
kind of hold and then you have to be the one to make it? Yeah, but it's not necessarily about
like the outline or the shape of the holds. Sometimes I would think about, well, what kind
of a grip would I need here? Like, well, it'd be really cool if you had like a sloper that's
kind of positive, but not really, or whatever. And then sometimes I'm like, oh, I wish I had
this like really high profile thing that would be this size and this, this, this. So yeah,
I do think about the shapes a lot when setting. Okay. Next question. More general, I guess.
What's it like climbing with Yanya? It's just impressive.
Mm-hmm. It's just like last year before Paris,
it was just like every day, we trained together like most of the days and every day I was just
like, watch her climb and be like, well, this is the perfect climber. There is nothing else you can
do. This is, you know, like you can't get better. And yet every day she gets better.
Just in terms of like training or like the, I don't know what she's doing.
It's everything. It's like power, tactics, endurance, style, technique, everything. I'll
remember like she'd do like 70, 80 move circuits on the spray wall. And she would do them. I'd be
like, well, those are some of the hardest move and she just did 80 of them. I guess she does
like you can't get better. And then she jumped on and she'd be like, and then the coach would be
like, what do you think? It's like, well, I could do this, this, this, this, this, this, this better.
And he's like, yes, and this, this, this, this, this. So it's just like, it's mind blown.
Yeah. It's also, at first I had like
problem training with her because it's just like, it can be really demoralizing. Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. But, and then we had like, we had a period when we didn't train together that much because
it was just, I wasn't working for me here. Well, like last year we trained together and I was,
I kind of switched from fuck she's beat, like she's much better than me to being like,
well, she's this good. I can learn from her and I can, I'm pretty sure I can be this strong.
And I feel like this, it made me, I think I was the strongest ever in my last year. It didn't show
in the results, which sucks, but I feel like physically I was in best shape in my last year
because I was just like, I was like, this is what I want. It's huge. She's just like, she's a
ridiculous, it's what you see at comps is not even close to being an estimation how good she actually
is. That's good to know. I guess when you said that sometimes it would feel like demoralizing
training with her. I don't know. How do you like get over that feeling? Just like I said,
it's just like, you have to get over it and be like, okay, she's better, but let's just learn
from her. It's the same as training with anyone who's better than you. It's just like,
well, you either cry about it and you don't train with them or you're like,
they're good. I'm going to train with them. Get as good as them.
You said that your training styles were kind of different and so you also didn't really train
together because of that. It kind of also reminded me of what you said about training with your
brother in terms of different training styles. In what way do you want training styles to be
similar so that you would train with someone? With Yannia it was different. I think we're both
pretty hard people to coach. Obviously, very different level. She's the greatest of all time.
I'm not comparing myself there. It's just like we do both get super annoyed with ourselves. We get
annoying, like really annoying. I think there was a point where we would get annoying at the same
time and we would get annoyed with each other and it just didn't work. I think it was mostly
because I was just frustrated not being as good as her. In terms of this training partner,
I think for me, we're just like to walk into the gym and train with someone who just sort of
lifts you up and then if you have two people that are just so psyched to get better,
it's just like they don't even need to be training on the same boulders, training on the same roots,
whatever. They don't need to be doing the same thing, but just having two training partners,
they're just like so psyched to get better. It's just like going to bring the motivation up.
I was sort of thinking about this the other day when Naujong went to Sean and
his brother Jejun who were in Slovenia training. I live like five minutes away from the gym,
so almost every day I'll walk in to say hi to everyone and drink coffee with them. With them,
Janja and Jair Behar is training. I was sitting there sipping coffee, I was there for 45 minutes.
I was like, this is the first time I actually miss training hard because the psych was so high.
Everyone was just pushing each other so much. That's exactly the training environment I think
they need to succeed. You said that you learned a lot from her. Is there anything that really
stands out to you in terms of things you learned? I think her try hard is...
Yeah, nobody tries as hard as her. How did you incorporate that into your own training,
just like the psych of trying hard? I think I'm not a very talented climber. I don't think I ever
was. I think the one thing that I was sort of good at is trying hard. But I kind of lost it there for
a second for a couple of years. But what trying hard feels to me is just like every time you get
on the wall, it's just like you push yourself just to find a bit more than you thought it could be
possible. After like training with her for like a long time, I was like, okay, but she just gives
so much more. And I was thinking about that a lot. So, I like to train her a little bit more.
I thought that a lot. So, I consciously tried to push it more. But it's very hard to put it in
words, brother. Yeah. Just like every move you do that feels on the limit, you just
you give more than you could possibly give. And it's funny. I've talked to one of the coaches
in the Slovenian team. I feel like if you try hard, one move can wear you down so much that
you're going to feel it like three days. Like one try on one move. If you really try hard,
if you really push your body. I wonder if I try hard. I don't know. I got to think about it.
I don't want to be mean, but I'm sure you're not. I think most people don't. I genuinely think that
most people don't. I think I've gotten better at it, but it was really bad before. Yeah.
Last question anyway. This one came from Matt. So, I wonder if this is just like a macro. So,
I just wonder if it's, yeah, I don't know. Maybe he's just trolling. He just says,
how can I be like you? I think he's just trolling. Yeah. I mean, are you guys close?
I mean, we've gotten closer. Yeah. Because of all the traveling and
I think he's cool. We're friends and it's cool having him around in the circuit.
Did you ever like co-commentate? I'm not sure if I've ever done it with Matt. I've done it with
Charlie. Oh really? Charlie was still around. Yeah. Not a lot. I don't think people should
be listening to me on streams. I don't think my English is good enough to be.
Oh, that's not true. That's not true at all. Yeah. I think you should be professional doing
it. So, I don't think it's the best idea to have that. Even though I think there is
a certain element that the adverts can bring, but yeah, I didn't like doing it that much.
Oh really? Okay. Well, I mean, you commentated a bit for the, I forget what it was,
just for like some of the competitions you had set recently, right?
Oh yeah, Doc Masters. But that wasn't really commenting, was it? It was just more talking
about setting and builders. It wasn't like on the stream speaking about climbing. I don't think my
brain works fast enough to do that job. Oh really? Okay. Okay, cool. Well, I think that's all the
questions I had then. Do you have any like final thoughts or words of wisdom you want to get out
there? I don't think I'm wise enough to give words of wisdom. Oh, come on. I feel like you've been
saying that a lot, that you're not good at whatever and whatever else, but I mean, come on.
You gotta have a little something. Train harder. Okay. All right. Well, yeah, that's all I had for
today. Thanks for joining me. You want to let people know where they can find you?
I'm in the gym most of the time now. Yeah. Other than that, I'm on Instagram. I will link that in
the description. Well, awesome. Thank you again. And it was amazing to talk to you. Thanks for having
me. Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe
if you enjoyed. Otherwise, you are a super fake climber. If you're listening on a podcasting
platform, I'd appreciate if you rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion on the free
competition climbing discord linked in the description. Thanks again for listening.