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But there were actually so many things that went wrong, like even just while I was at the village.

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Yeah, I for one got shingles.

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Didn't meet like Raygun or anything like that.

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Oh my gosh, I don't even know who that is.

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The lead route in Tokyo, I was like sitting in the chair and I was just like crying and

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crying and there was just like a camera like right in my face and I was just like,

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yeah, I'm not someone who like, I don't want to have kids or anything like that.

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Welcome to the season four premiere of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast.

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I'm your host Jinni and I'm excited to introduce my guest Oceana Mackenzie.

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She goes by Oce, is a boulder and lead climber from Australia.

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She's had an amazing 2024 season with her first World Cup boulder medal in Prague

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and also recently competed in her second Olympics. In this episode, we'll learn about how she battled

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three health issues while competing in the Paris Olympics, how Paris compared to Tokyo,

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her training with team Switzerland and making lead climbing gains,

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and her thankfully far in the future plans for retirement. I hope you enjoy this episode with Oce.

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Oce.

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Real quick, I'm excited to announce my new sponsor helping make this podcast episode possible,

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Mad Rock Climbing. I got fitted with their brand new line of high performance shoes,

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the D2.ONES. They just came out December 6th, but you might notice a few of your favorite

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GOM climbers are already wearing them like Oscar Baudrand from Team Canada and also me. This is the

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first time I've gotten to wear their shoes for an extended period of time and I'm actually super

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impressed with the grip of their in-house rubber. And of course, the famous drone heel that everyone

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says is the cheat code to heel hooking small edges. Feel free to message me if you have any

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questions about the shoes or sizing and you can use the discount code notrealclimber for 10% off

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your entire Mad Rock order. Info will be in the description. Back to the show. How are you doing

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today and have you started up training again? Yeah, today I feel pretty good. I just took a

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two week break from climbing, which is probably the longest I've taken since I had to do hotel

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quarantine after Tokyo Olympics. Wow. Okay. Like fully no climbing at all for two weeks?

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Cause some people say they take a break and really it's like, I just climbed a little bit less than

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usual. No, no, I actually took like two weeks off from climbing, which is pretty crazy for me. So

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yeah, I just got back into climbing like last Friday. And yeah, it was a bit rough actually

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getting back into it. But yes, I'm just doing some super chill sessions at the moment. I'm

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going to climb later today just for fun. When you took that break, did you not want to climb at all

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or was it like very hard to be like, I'm not going to climb for these two weeks and I want to be like

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very strict about that. Yeah. I feel like I had to be pretty strict with myself going into it because

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I knew that would be really hard for me to take the break. I actually was like, my body was really

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happy resting because I was feeling pretty tired after all the travel and comps and stuff. But

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mentally it was quite hard to just be like doing nothing for two weeks. I definitely struggled with

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that. So it was a good challenge for me, I guess. I guess why did you decide two weeks? Like if you

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wanted to do it, why, why not? Because I hadn't had a pretty long break in a while. I felt that

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quite a bit at the end of this season. So I wanted to make sure that like right after the season,

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I just let my body and mind like recover a bit before getting back into training and like

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restarting everything again. Because even if I like mentally wanted to climb, my body was

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feeling quite fatigued and needed it. So yeah, I think it was just important for me to do it in

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the long run for next season and stuff like that. Makes sense. So yeah, I guess you're finally back

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in Australia now. How was it being away from home for so long? You were gone for, I guess,

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when did you leave? Yeah, so I actually left in like December last year. And then I had like

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a 10 day trip back home after the China World Cup last year, in April. But really, I think it's been

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like six months for the longest it. Yeah, it's pretty rough, I think. Like, I'm fortunate to

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have my sister live in Switzerland. So I have like almost a second base outside of Australia. And

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that makes it a lot easier having like family around and having somewhere that feels really

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comfortable. But yeah, like I said, like being around the dogs and like my family and stuff

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like that can be pretty hard. But ultimately, I really love traveling and doing all the comps. So

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it always works out. Yeah, I guess you were in Switzerland for quite a while, right?

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Yeah, I'm usually there. I mean, it depends on kind of visa stuff. Yeah, I was there for like

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three months. And then like, I usually go back there and in between all the European comps,

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I'm in Switzerland as a base. So then if you're like in Switzerland for three months, and then

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you also have to go to some European comps, do you is there like a separate visa for that?

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Yeah, it's a bit tricky. So I actually have a New Zealand passport, because my parents are from New

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Zealand, which is really handy because you can actually spend 91 days in each European country.

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So I'm really fortunate with that. But it just means that I have to like,

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make sure that I'm kind of going around Europe a bit more to make sure my day is like allocated

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properly. But it's also still really scary, I guess doing that because even though it's a rule,

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it's kind of like an unwritten rule, so to say. So some countries, like, are fine with it and know

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the rule and other countries don't really know it. So you have to be really careful where I'm

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leaving from. So like, see if they know the rules, I guess. So I always try not to like,

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actually stay that long just in case I come into any problems, I don't really want to have to like,

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deal with explaining that I'm allowed to be in there and, you know, like provide paperwork. So

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yeah, but usually, if you're on an Australian passport, you have to be in Europe for 91 days,

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and then you have to be out again for 91 days. So that can be really hard for a lot of the European

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comps, especially because some of them are actually like the start of the European to the end,

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is longer than three months. And obviously to like go back to Australia is really expensive,

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and go back to Europe, it's like a whole thing. So logistical challenges for sure. Yeah. So

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you mentioned your sister is in Switzerland. I think I also heard that your coach is in

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Switzerland. Yeah, so my my coach is Will, and he now coaches the Swiss team.

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Okay, so how did you go about finding this coach who's all the way in Switzerland from Australia?

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Actually, he's originally from Australia. Okay. And he's been my coach for like, 10 years, I think.

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And the Swiss team actually approached him at one of the World Cups. So he started like,

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two years ago, I think. And then he moved over there. And I've kind of just like,

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followed him around a bit, joined him with the Swiss team sessions and stuff like that,

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which is really fun. Yeah. Is it like hard having a coach not being in person when you're

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training? It can be especially like, with time difference and things, it can be quite hard.

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But I think ultimately, like, Will has always been my coach where he like writes my programs. But he

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also before was coaching the Swiss team, he was doing route setting. So he hasn't always been

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like super hands on with me in sessions, I guess. So it really it's just opened up like,

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more opportunities for me to climb with him in sessions with the Swiss team. Which is,

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yeah, worked out really, really well, actually. Yeah, I guess I've always just been kind of curious

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about like, what athletes training looks like with coaches? Is it he mostly just like writes

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training plans for you? Or is it a lot more like movement on the wall kind of stuff? Because I

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imagine that would be hard remotely. Yeah, it is. So he Yeah, he writes all my programs and stuff

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like that. And when I'm in Switzerland, we do a lot of like, he makes up all of the boulders for

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me. And he obviously like sets like comp simulations and things like that. And then also we do a lot of

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like mental debriefs, I guess. When I'm in Australia, I'm usually just getting the programs from him and

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just again, like doing some debriefs over messages and things like that. But yeah, when he's in

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Switzerland setting, it's obviously a bit hard for me to like get climbing specific stuff from him.

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So I just kind of do that by myself or with my sister or friends. Yeah. So I guess kind of

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speaking of your sisters, I know a little bit of the story. But for anyone who doesn't know the

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story would probably be good for them to get that info. So in general, how did you start getting into

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climbing and competing? Yeah, so my mom took my sisters to like the local climbing gym. When they

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were younger, and they kind of just like picked it up and really enjoyed it. And then I eventually

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just because I did everything that my sisters did, I got into it and got hooked like straight away

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and then started doing comps and realized that was something that I really, really loved.

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And so I just got into it that way. And since the first competition, I was like,

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yeah, this is really fun. I love this. I want to do it. And yeah, one of my sisters is a rootsetter.

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And she was also able this year to come and like travel with me to all the World Cups.

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So that was been really cool as like my official. And yeah, she's pretty much like a

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mentor for me, like role model helps out a lot with like the mental side of climbing for me,

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like doing debriefs after comps and I guess kind of helped me develop my like philosophy of climbing,

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I guess I would say and like how I want to like spend my career and things like that.

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Does she like have her own comp experience as well?

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Yes, a little bit. She did a few like state titles and nationals when she was younger.

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But she didn't really like competitions, it just stressed her out way too much.

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Fair.

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But she watched a lot, a lot of World Cups when she was well, she still does, but also when she was younger.

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So I guess you mentioned like several of your sisters also climb. Did you ever feel like

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competitive against them when you were growing up?

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I had maybe a little bit when I was younger, but to be honest, I was kind of like a really

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snazzy little kid. So I was always trying to like beat the guys mostly, like trying to show them up

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a lot of the time, like all the local dudes at the gym.

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Nice.

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But also one thing that I really liked about climbing like and still do when I was younger is

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like that the challenge is that you're just trying to climb something and not really like

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going against someone. Because I feel like actually when I was younger playing sports

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where I was up against someone, it didn't feel as satisfying and it was and I didn't really like

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that like competitiveness with someone else. So with climbing, it's so nice that you're just like

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trying to focus on just climbing climbs instead of just like climbing.

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Climbing climbs instead of like trying to beat someone. But yeah, I definitely would say when

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I was younger, I was pretty competitive and always wanted to beat the dudes in the gym.

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Okay. And that worked out well for you?

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Yeah, I think so.

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Awesome. Yeah, I got that feeling, but I won't go into it too much.

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So I heard that you are the youngest of five sisters?

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Six. I've got five sisters, so the six of us.

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Okay, yeah. So being the youngest, especially of so many kids, I feel like sometimes the youngest

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gets an advantage with maybe like harnessing all of the knowledge from your older siblings,

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especially if they do the same hobby. Do you feel like that happened with you at all?

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Yeah, for sure. I mean, like I said, my sister, she has so much knowledge about climbing.

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And same with my mom, like she climbed when she was younger a little bit and still does.

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So definitely I adopted like a lot of their ideas on climbing and movement and things like that,

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which I'm really grateful for. But I would also say that, yeah, being the youngest of six girls,

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I just gained a lot of like, I know life lessons from all of my sisters and yeah, the way that I

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do competitions and traveling and that kind of thing.

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Yeah, I guess I have yet to see it with like Meiji and Tomoa to see which one

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is getting all of the knowledge. They're, they kind of swap every now and then.

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But yeah, I'm also the younger sibling. I mean, of only two, but I feel like you kind of get that

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advantage. But then also maybe this is just me, but I feel like sometimes the youngest doesn't

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always have the best work ethic. And so then it kind of evens out. Feel that way by any chance.

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Yeah, I mean, definitely with climbing, I think I have a good work ethic, but with everything else,

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yeah, maybe not so much. Kind of get everything else handed to me a little bit. I mean, even

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having all the knowledge from my sisters, I feel like, yeah, I don't really have to work that hard

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to learn things just like, oh, what do I do here? How do I do this? Like, yeah, just do this. And

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then I kind of just go along a lot of the time where I've probably benefited a bit from thinking

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about things and doing it my own way. Do you ever, do you feel like, well, now I'm just thinking

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because I never really felt like it was hard to ask for help. Maybe just because I always had

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my sister there that I could ask and it would be like, fine. Do you feel like, do you feel that issue?

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Because a lot of people talk about that. I'm like, I don't know, I'll ask for help whenever I want.

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Yeah, no, I think I'm, yeah, I'm usually just like, oh, this is a problem for me. What can I do?

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Yeah. I don't know if that's a, yeah, I think that's a good thing.

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Yeah, maybe we're discovering things about being younger children.

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Yeah. And I also heard my sister complained that she got disciplined a lot more than I did as a kid.

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Yeah. Yeah. I think that definitely happened in my family too. I mean, I get to like travel the

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world climbing during competitions. I feel like my other sisters didn't really get that opportunity.

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So definitely some pros of being there, being the youngest.

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Nice. Well, we can be happy about that. So yeah, going into your travels and the recent Olympics

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that had happened. In general, how was the Paris Olympics experience for you?

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Yeah. I mean, it's actually kind of a crazy competition for me because I had a really great

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time. I really enjoyed it. Like being in the Australian building, being there with all the

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athletes. Like the competition was really fun. The venue was great. And like my, I felt like my

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mental state going into that comp was really, really good. Like I was feeling really confident

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and had a really good plan. But there were actually so many things that went wrong. Like even just

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while I was at the village. Yeah. I, for one, got shingles while I was there.

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Wait, what? How?

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Yeah, it's crazy. I don't know. I guess usually shingles comes on due to stress,

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which I guess makes sense with a comp like the Olympics. But that was kind of wild. Like I had

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a huge rash all down my side. I had like all my lymph nodes were really swollen. So it was like

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my whole neck was really painful. And yeah, I was pretty uncomfortable most of the time,

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especially in the heat. That was pretty rough. I also had like my wisdom teeth coming through

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on like the same side. Oh my God. Yeah. I then also subluxed my shoulder a few days before

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climbing. So there's like a lot of crazy things happened, but somehow I was able to just like

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have so much trust in all my support team and just be like, all right, well, I mean, I'm not

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going to compete at the Olympics. So let's just deal with this and go with it. And yeah, I guess

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it worked out pretty well somehow. I don't know how, but like looking back on it, like that was

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the rough, but I was just vibing the whole time. So.

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Wow. I mean, did you like resolve any of like the shingles issues before you started competing or

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was it still happening as you were competing? I mean, it was happening while I was competing,

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for sure. Yeah. I mean, I was on some medication and had some creams and stuff. And I also was

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wearing like bandages to like cover up the rash and things like that, which helped with like the

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irritation of my uniform scratching me. Yeah. But yeah, it, yeah, I don't even know. I guess I was

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just like fully ready to just give it everything. So it didn't really matter what happened. I was

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like, it's time to go. So whatever. Yeah. Okay. I mean, how was like the, how was the village

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experience? Did you get to experience that or were you just like laying in bed the whole time trying

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to solve these issues? Yeah, it's a bit of a shame. I didn't get to like do as much as I would have

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wanted in the village. I mean, it was still really cool. And I had a few days where I could like

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explore. And I would say especially the Australian building was like really amazing. We had our own

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barista that came from Australia to like make coffees and larger and stuff like that. And we had

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a full like nutrition team, which was making like, we didn't have to go to the dining hall for

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breakfast or lunch because they like made lots of meals for us, which was really good because

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we made lots of meals for us, which was really good because I'm vegan and gluten free and the

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dining hall wasn't the best for that. So yeah, it was like amazing to have that. And like just the

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the team environment in the building was really nice and like really relaxed and there was lots

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of areas to chill out. So that was nice for me while I wasn't feeling super good. But yeah,

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I mean, the village was crazy. It's always so cool to see just so many different athletes around.

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When we're just surrounded by climbers, you get this idea of what an athlete is. And then you go

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to the Olympics and there's like, just so many different people. And yeah, it's really, really

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amazing to see. Yeah, was there anyone you like talked to that was like a big inspiration? That's

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not the word I'm looking for. Anyone like on the Olympic teams that you talked to that you were

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just like super excited for that you were like fangirling over? Actually, not much. I don't really

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follow any other sports except climbing. Yeah, like I and because I was quite sick, I didn't even

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really get to talk to that many people like in the Australian building. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we did get to

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talk a little bit like the water polo team, which I think they won silver at the Olympics, which was

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pretty cool. And they were fun to chat to and like, yeah, hear about water polo. But yeah,

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unfortunately, not not much. I'm pretty big focused on climbing. Didn't meet like Ray Gun

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or anything like that. Oh my gosh, I don't even know who that is. Wait, what? Like the break dancing

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Australian? Oh, okay. No, no, I do know. I do know. Okay, sorry. Sorry. Okay. No, I didn't get to see

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that. Okay. I'm really bad with names. Fair. What's what's like the sentiment in Australia on her at

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the moment? Um, to be honest, it's pretty mixed, I think. I mean, in my feelings anyway, I think

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it was a bit dramatic for everyone to react the way they did. I don't think anyone should be treated

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the way she did. But also, yeah, her style was very unique. So I don't know. Yeah, yeah. It's an

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interesting situation, I guess. Yeah. I'm not sure how the selection really a diplomatic take. Yeah,

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the selection policy works with break dancing, but it seems interesting. Yeah. Okay, we can leave it

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at that. So you made it to the finals round, which was your goal, I believe. So congrats on that.

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How did the finals boulders feel in comparison to the qualities? And I guess the lead route as well?

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Oh, that's a good question. Yeah. Um, I guess I can actually go with leaf vest because for qualities,

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I was really nervous on the lead wall, like, because I knew that I had a pretty good bouldering

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round and that I just had to like, put in a solid lead performance and I could make finals. Um,

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and yeah, it was definitely pretty scary and I was a bit like stiff and it didn't climb the best.

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So and actually after the bouldering round in finals, I also came across a feeling like I

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climbed that well. So I was pretty much just like, okay, let's just, I didn't think that I had a

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chance at making a medal after my bouldering round for some reason. So I was just like, okay,

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I'll just go out and climb and try really hard, which I did. I'm pretty happy with in general,

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like with the training I did for lead, I feel like I climbed the best I could on the route,

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which I can't really ask for more. Obviously I always want to climb better and be stronger,

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but that's just how it is. Um, and yeah, for, for Boulder Qualies, I was so nervous. It was crazy.

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Like just walking from ISO to the call zone, I was feeling so nervous. Um, but eventually I like,

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was just blasting my music and I was like, okay, you can go out there and just, just try hard,

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like, saw the crowd. I was like, all right, this is going to be a good time. Um, and yeah, once,

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after I flashed the first boulder, I was like, all right, this is, this is pretty good. I'm feeling

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good. Um, and from then on just like had a great time and felt really good. Um, like, yeah, it was

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just so much fun with that big crowd and I really enjoyed the boulders. Um, yeah, in finals, it was

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a little bit unsatisfying, I guess. I just feel like there were definitely a few things that

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I should have done or felt like I could have done. So yeah, and I guess I didn't really like the,

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the steep boulder is usually like, or the physical boulder is usually one of my favorites of the

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round. I quite like intensity. So, and I didn't really enjoy that boulder this round. Um, so kind

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of just like, wasn't as fun as Qualies to me, I would say. Um, and then yeah, I also usually like

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coordination, but couldn't really figure out a solution on the coordination border. There were

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just a few things where it was like, ah, damn, okay. I mean, you always learn so much in

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competitions, but I guess it, yeah, at the Olympics, it was like, I of course wanted to execute

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perfectly, which isn't going to happen every time, but it's going to leave me with a bit frustrated

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and unhappy. Um, but yeah, I mean, overall, I, I was pretty happy with my climbing in general and,

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and had a really good time. I guess since your goal was just to make finals, once you made finals,

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did that, did you kind of feel like the weight was taken away from you and you could just kind of

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climb for fun or once you heard that you made finals, then you, you know, created the next goal,

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which is like, oh, I should try to podium now. Yeah. I mean, I'm pretty, yeah, I think every

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athlete is good at like moving the goalpost as soon as you get your goal. Um, but to be honest,

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but to be honest, considering everything that had happened, yeah, just before climbing, it started

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like with my shoulder and shingles and everything. I was really, really happy to have made finals.

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And I felt like I could just go and enjoy and, and just climb hard. Um, but yeah, for sure.

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In the back of my mind, I was like, well, let's not go in here and just like

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mess about, like you can make podium and you should try a hundred percent. So a bit of both,

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I guess. Makes sense. Um, any regrets from Paris that you can think of?

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Ooh, question. Yeah, actually, no, I don't think so. Okay. That's good. That's good.

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Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. Like nothing you think you could have done better other than maybe on

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those like two boulders that you mentioned. I mean, yeah, it's always tricky to climb because

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I mean, after a round, there's always so many things that you think of that are like, oh,

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if I just done this, it would have been better. But ultimately like me not doing those certain

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boulders made me want to work harder on them after, which then leads to like getting better

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and progressing. So yeah, it's hard. Obviously I would have liked to have done all the boulders

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in the finals and, and being a perfect round, but then also, yeah, I then realized that I needed to

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work on certain style of coordination and that kind of thing. So yeah, I wouldn't say I even

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have any regrets, but yeah, I know. Yeah. I'm pretty happy with it. Please excuse this brief

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intermission, but if you're interested in deleted scenes from this episode where her sister's dog

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makes an appearance and we talk about how she funded her past comp season, do consider helping

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support this podcast on Patreon. Some other perks include a membership pin shipped to you after two

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months, prioritize guest questions or the ability to submit video questions and much more to come.

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The proceeds go back into the podcast to help me break even and they help me improve the experience

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of the guests. If you'd like to help out non-monetarily, liking, commenting and sharing

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helps a great deal as well. Back to the show. So you're one of the very few athletes who

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participated in both the Tokyo and Paris Olympics. And surely they were very different

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because the Tokyo one was still kind of in this like COVID, COVID-y area, era of times.

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So how would you compare your experiences there? Is there like anything that stood out?

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Yeah. I mean, they honestly felt like completely different in every way possible in like, yeah,

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my preparations, how I was feeling about climbing, even competing there. And then also after like

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going into Tokyo, I was not very psyched on climbing in general. Like we were in lockdown

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in Australia, in Victoria, where I live and it was like pretty strict. Like you could only go

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outside for like one hour a day. We had access to the climbing gym. Yeah, it was pretty rough.

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Yeah, we had access to the climbing gym, but it was just a few people. So it was like just that

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pretty much the people competing for the Olympics. So it was pretty like lonely in general in training

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sessions. And yeah, obviously not like one of my favorite things to do is travel and do World Cups

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and I couldn't do that before Tokyo. So my motivation was just low and I couldn't really

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see many of my friends that kind of thing. Like it was just, I guess everyone, it was a pretty

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rough time. So yeah, going into the comp, I like was not feeling confident, not that happy in

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general. So it was hard to enjoy even being in Tokyo in the village. Like I don't honestly feel

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like I even blanked it out a lot. Like I don't remember doing much around the village because

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I was just like not in a good space. And then yeah, after climbing, I like had major burnout and

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really did not love climbing and we had to do like two weeks quarantine. And I think that was like

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actually kind of nice to have a forced like break and mental, I don't know, like I could really just

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think about like all the pre Tokyo and what I wanted to do from then because yeah, it was just

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like a pretty rough time. Like I don't know, after I finished climbing, I think I cried like the whole

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night just like straight. It was crazy. I was just so upset and yeah, it was pretty rough.

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Like from the results or just like having to climb?

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Yeah, I guess a bit of everything. I think I knew that I wasn't feeling that good.

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But then I obviously wanted to climb well, but then I definitely felt like I didn't.

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And so it was like this like mental release of having to prepare for this comp. And it also was

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because I couldn't do any other World Cups. It was like the one comp I was focusing on,

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which for me, I guess I did a little bit with Paris. It was definitely the comp I was peaking for,

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but I worked really hard going into Paris to treat it just like any other World Cup that I was

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competing at because if I put so much pressure on one competition, it then just, it leads to you not

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enjoying it as much. And then I'm climbing not at my best and I'm really stiff and it's just not

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really a good situation, which for Tokyo was pretty much exactly what I did. It was like,

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this is your one competition this year. You got to like go where you want to do well and you want

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to feel good. And none of that happened. So it just like kind of just a crash after that

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was really hard. And I found it really hard to enjoy climbing and training after that.

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But once I got home, we were still in lockdown and everything. So the only thing I could do was

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I, the only thing I could do was to leave the house was go climbing or go to the gym. That was

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kind of empty. So I wanted to go and get out of the house and that kind of thing. But I was also

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just still feeling kind of, yeah, just really low. So yeah, that's kind of Tokyo. But going, yeah,

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I guess going into Paris, I was obviously like this season and last season, I just

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going to the competitions and climbing felt so amazing and I enjoyed it so much.

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And yeah, like I said, I wanted to just make Paris feel, even though when I got there and I

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started climbing and I made finals, it didn't feel like a World Cup. It definitely felt bigger

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with like the crowd and having my parents there and just everything. It definitely felt bigger.

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But going into it and how I wanted to feel while I was climbing was like, these are just boulders.

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This is just a route. Like this is the process that you do in World Cups. It's going to be no

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different. I think that really, really helped and made it even more special that once I had made

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finals and it felt like this bigger thing, it was like, oh, it was really cool to have that process

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and feel so good going into it with how I wanted to climb and everything. So yeah, definitely felt

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very, very different. Yeah. I guess in Tokyo or I guess after Tokyo, did you ever consider like

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quitting? Like, did you get to that point or was it just like you felt like you needed a long break?

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I think I didn't want to quit because I knew that I did still love climbing. I just needed to figure

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out a way to do it where I did love it again. So it was kind of like just looking at what I was

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going to do next, which ended up being that my sister and I, the one who traveled with me this

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year, we went to Japan and Korea for like three months. And pretty much my only goal there was

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to just like enjoy climbing and have suns. And I pretty much fixed the problem after that. Yeah,

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that was in like, I guess, 2022, I think, the pre-season. And yeah, we had so much fun climbing

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and I really tried to build up my confidence because after Tokyo, my confidence was really

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low about my climbing and everything. So yeah, I'm really glad that we decided to do that trip and

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really build up my slant again. Love for climbing. Any like crazy stories from Tokyo Olympics?

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Or just like the whole thing being in lockdown and that was crazy enough? Yeah, I mean, pretty

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much. I think, yeah, also the having to do hotel quarantine after the Games was pretty wild. Like

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two weeks in a hotel, like no window, like couldn't open windows, that kind of thing was

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quite a unique experience. Yeah. Yeah. And to be honest, it wasn't like it sounds really bad. It

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wasn't all bad. I think after the experience of Tokyo, it was kind of nice to have that like

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decompress of just doing whatever I wanted or whatever I needed to each day. But I'm grateful

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for the experience, but I will happily, hopefully never do it again. Right. Yeah. And there was like

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no crowd in Tokyo at all? Or were there like some people who were allowed to watch? No, there was

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like a few speckled people, but it was kind of like that awkward feeling when there's like not

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many people around and be like, yeah, come on. It was pretty low. It was pretty low, especially

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when you compare it to Paris, like the crowd was insane in Paris. So yeah, it was pretty awkward.

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Yeah. Yeah. How'd you feel like the crowd or lack thereof of crowd affected you in Tokyo?

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It was just like silent, pretty much? Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting though, because for me,

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in Tokyo, because I hadn't done comps in such a long time and I had been like in the isolated

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box of the lockdown, I actually like, because we obviously had the combined format for Tokyo and

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I got out to do speed first. And it actually just felt so overwhelming for me. Like I wasn't

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prepared for that environment. Whereas Paris actually with even more crowd, I actually went out

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still feeling like way more prepared and it didn't feel as overwhelming somehow, which is

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interesting because obviously the crowd was much, much bigger and the environment was much, much

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bigger. But yeah, just having that exposure before Paris was like with all the world cups and things

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was really, really good. No, yeah, that totally makes sense. I mean, I think taking a break from

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competitions and then going back into like a first competition is kind of just like the worst feeling

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ever. Just because you're like not used to that pressured environment. But yeah, let's get into

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the... Go ahead. Oh, good. I was just going to say after the lead route in Tokyo, I was like

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sitting in the chair and I was just like crying and crying and there was just like a camera like

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right in my face. And I was just like, ah, yeah, in Paris, I was just like, the camera's there, but I

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was like, that just is such a different contrast to the experience. It was like, oh my God, why

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these people filming me? Don't look at me. I hate this. And then in Paris, it was like, yeah, let's

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go. Show the world climbing. Yeah. Okay. No, that's really interesting actually, because I think

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people kind of make a fuss when the cameras are really in the climbers faces when they're having

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emotional moments like that. I guess how did it feel being in that position in Tokyo?

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Yeah, not great for me in that time. Because even after that, you go through the mixed zone,

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like after you've climbed and I couldn't talk. There was so many interviews that I wanted to

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talk to me, but I was so hysterical that I couldn't even talk to them. So it was pretty intense and it

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was such a shame that the first time climbing was in the Olympics and we could have been showcasing

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it, I was just so upset and couldn't even... It was so rough. It was like, oh, you know how you

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enjoy in the Olympics? And it was just like, I'm not, honestly. I can't even lie to you right now.

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Yeah. So it was a bit intense and yeah, pretty rough time for that. So I'm glad that I was able

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to go to Paris and represent it and actually be able to talk to the camera and that kind of thing.

377
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:10,400
Yeah. I mean, I cannot imagine how it would feel having a camera in my face if I were sobbing,

378
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:17,520
but also as a viewer, I'm like, it is good to see people's emotions and it makes it interesting.

379
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:27,360
Yeah. I mean, I understand the necessity for it, but yeah, at the time it was a bit rough,

380
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:34,720
but that's okay. Okay. So going into the 2024 IFS season that you just came out of,

381
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:44,560
you actually did a lot of the World Cups in 2024 season, unlike a lot of the other athletes who

382
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:50,080
were competing in the Olympics. I guess part of that was so that you could get the experience

383
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:55,280
and make it feel like the Olympics was just another World Cup without all of the added pressure.

384
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:01,120
Did you feel a difference in the season with a lot of the other athletes not competing?

385
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:11,280
Yeah, I did actually. I mean, I think in general, when there's a lot of the top athletes

386
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:19,040
not at the competitions, it can feel a little unusual, but I think it also then made the comps,

387
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:25,680
when everyone was there, feel a bit more special. I really enjoy it when, yeah, there's a lot of

388
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,760
athletes there and everyone's competing and everyone's warming up together, it's really

389
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:37,360
enjoyable. So it definitely feels different when there's a lot less athletes. Sometimes it can also

390
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:42,400
be nice though, the competition is a lot quicker for qualities and things, which is nice, I think,

391
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:47,120
for a lot of the athletes who don't have ranking points or something like that.

392
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:56,720
But it did make the comps that the athletes chose to go to, who weren't doing many comps,

393
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:04,320
quite intense. Like I said, I think when you choose only a few comps, you then have a

394
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:11,200
pressure to perform at that one competition that you're doing. So I would say that it was,

395
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:17,120
yeah, the environment was a little more tense in general when everyone was there.

396
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:23,200
Yeah, that makes sense. And you had a really amazing 2024 season with better results than

397
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:28,880
you've seen in the past, especially in LEAD. I guess, do you attribute that to anything

398
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,360
in particular? I don't think it could have just been that some of the Olympic athletes

399
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:40,160
weren't competing. Yeah, yeah. No, definitely. While I've been training in Switzerland,

400
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:45,680
I've been training with the Swiss athletes, especially like Sasha and a bunch of other

401
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:52,080
really amazing LEAD athletes that they have, has really, really helped me. And I was even able to

402
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:58,240
join in on some of the Swiss team, like LEAD sessions with the LEAD coach, which was really,

403
00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:05,200
really nice and I think really helped in my LEAD climbing this year. They were all really helpful

404
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:10,880
and yeah, I would pretty much dedicate it all to the Swiss team as my LEAD results.

405
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:16,720
Okay. I guess as a boulder, what do you feel like is the thing that really improved your

406
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,040
LEAD ability in terms of like training or mindset or anything like that?

407
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:28,880
I think something I really tried to focus on, at least in the pre-season for LEAD, was like the

408
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:35,600
panic that I got when I would start getting pumped. Whereas when I saw something that I did a lot of

409
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:41,440
was just watching like the Swiss athletes and how they reacted on the wall to certain things,

410
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,960
which was really helpful for me. So like Vincent's watching Sasha climb, like when he's really,

411
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:54,000
really pumped, he can still just stay relaxed and like take a breath and continue on. Like even when

412
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,240
you're pumped, you know, you can have that feeling where you just like keep fighting and it's possible.

413
00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:03,520
But I think all the time I would get pumped and get frazzled and like start chalking up a lot and

414
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:09,120
that kind of thing. So something that I focused on was even like not climbing with a chalk bag

415
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,440
in the sessions that I could focus on the wall on resting.

416
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:18,720
The certain things like that a lot really helped and watching different body positions on the wall

417
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:21,360
that the other athletes would do just helped.

418
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:26,560
And so how did you balance LEAD and bouldering training for this Olympics?

419
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:36,000
I would say it was a little hard. I do feel like I always am kind of doing one better than the other.

420
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:41,680
It doesn't really feel like I had consistently felt good in both the whole year.

421
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:48,800
But to be honest, I also didn't really feel like I was reaching my LEAD potential the whole season

422
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:56,240
until copper, where I kind of always felt like something was kind of missing for me to like

423
00:42:56,240 --> 00:43:01,360
make the next step in my rope climbing. And I didn't really know exactly what that was.

424
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:07,280
Like, I guess I still kind of don't know what the difference was between copper and the rest of the

425
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:14,640
comps. But it just, it felt really easy to like, just, yeah, I don't know, on the wall,

426
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:20,800
everything just kind of felt right. And copper was the first comp where I felt really just like,

427
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:28,000
really happy with every route that I did in the comp. Whereas I'm always, yeah, kind of less

428
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:32,240
sure like all the other comps like, oh, yeah, I feel like I could have done this, but something

429
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:35,200
wasn't quite right. And then I felt like I was just kind of like, oh, yeah, I feel like I could

430
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:43,440
have done this, but it's something wasn't quite right. And so, yeah, I think balancing boulder

431
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:51,120
and lead is quite hard. But like I even was considering for next season to just do bouldering,

432
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:57,520
because it can be quite hard to do both. But I ultimately made the decision not to just with

433
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:03,440
the way the season's laid out. It doesn't really make sense. And also, I just love both of them so

434
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:09,120
much that I'm just gonna have to hopefully find an even better way next year to balance both. So

435
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:15,600
maybe it's something I'm still working on. I'm entirely sure. Okay. So I mean, in terms of

436
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:20,480
training for it, is it just like 50-50? Or do you like front load bouldering training or like front

437
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:26,560
load lead training? Because it kind of comes at different times of the year, sort of. I haven't

438
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:33,040
seen the schedule for 2025 yet. Yeah, it's pretty combined next year, actually. So it's pretty

439
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:40,560
similar times. Yeah. But I will be doing mostly bouldering training, just because that also

440
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:45,600
improves your lead so much, the stronger you are and the better you climb the easier lead fields.

441
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:54,080
Usually my take on it is bouldering training and then a few weeks or a month before the first

442
00:44:54,080 --> 00:45:03,520
lead woke up, I'll do a really intense lead focus and endurance, building up my resistance. But this

443
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:09,360
preseason, I will also be making sure to include some rope sessions that I'm still feeling confident

444
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:15,440
and not losing that feeling of being on rope and the feelings that I got last year or this year

445
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:22,480
for lead climbing. So I guess mostly bouldering, but also a little bit of lead. Well, hope to see

446
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:29,520
that it works out next season. And also congrats on your first ever World Cup medal, I believe.

447
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:38,880
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, how did that feel? So good. It was so good. Yeah, I mean, for one,

448
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:46,800
I just Prague is such a fun comp for me. Like I remember last year, I came seventh and in the

449
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:53,680
semis, I just had so much fun. Like it's just such a great comp. And so I knew coming into it, I was

450
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:59,040
like, oh, well, I know I'm going to have a good time. And after coming off a few like fourth places

451
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:06,000
and making some finals, I was like, if I'm in finals, I'm making podium at this comp. Like

452
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:12,560
it's going to happen. This is the comp it's going to happen at. So yeah, once I made finals,

453
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:17,200
I was feeling pretty good. Also nervous. Like I was like, okay, well, like, what if I don't do it?

454
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:21,600
I really want this. Like I really want to make podiums. So there was like a few doubts. But

455
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:27,440
yeah, also like going out, looking at the boulders, I was like, okay, yeah, you can do this. Like it's

456
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:32,960
a pretty good round for you, I think, with the style. And then yeah, actually making the podium.

457
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:39,360
I didn't realize that I had after the last boulder, I thought that on attempts, Anon would have been

458
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:43,440
third. So I like went over and everyone's like, good job. I was like, oh, yeah, thanks, you had

459
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:49,200
two. And I was kind of like, oh, damn, like again, I'm going to be fourth. Ah, so frustrating. And

460
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:53,600
then yeah, like looked out into the crowd and my coach was like, you can do that. And then I was

461
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:58,800
like, so stoked and like my sisters ran over and the Swiss team and like everything. And it was,

462
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:04,240
yeah, it was really, really, really cool. I was so happy. That's awesome. How, I guess like, what is

463
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:09,360
it about Prague that stands out to you in terms of like being more fun than the other World Cups?

464
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:15,440
Yeah, I don't know. I think I really enjoy the city in general, like it's really good food,

465
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:23,200
good coffee, like cafe culture. I quite enjoy the venue. And I think the last two years,

466
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:31,440
Manu Hasler has set the Prague. And I really seem to enjoy his style of setting. So kind of

467
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,920
combination of those things, I think. I didn't realize that. I mean, I guess I know that that

468
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:41,040
would make a big difference. But I didn't realize that they, that you can like kind of expect them

469
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:45,840
to be setting certain comps. So then you can kind of expect that you would like the style more.

470
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:52,160
Yeah, but it's interesting because usually it's not like certain setters set at a certain comp,

471
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:59,600
so to say. But I, we realized after this comp in Prague that he had set for it twice.

472
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:04,240
And I guess I didn't put two and two together, but I was just knew that I really enjoyed Prague

473
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:10,480
last year. And as well, like with the crowd was really big and the music was good. And then I

474
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:14,880
enjoyed it a lot again this year. And it was like, oh, okay, I guess there's a common theme where

475
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:20,640
he's also setting the boulders that were there. So yeah, do you like know who's setting beforehand

476
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:27,280
before the comps? Yeah, it's usually in the info sheet. I don't check that often, I guess, because

477
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:32,400
I don't am going or a lot doesn't really like change that much for me. But yeah, we can find

478
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,800
out if we want to. Okay, I was just kind of wondering if there's like a person's name that

479
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,400
you see as the center and you're like, oh crap, this is not gonna go well.

480
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:47,120
I think sometimes we'll see it and be like, more intrigued. We'll be like, oh, interesting,

481
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:52,880
I wonder how this comps gonna go like seeing the style. But there hasn't been a comp where I've

482
00:48:52,880 --> 00:49:00,640
been like, oh, I'm not psyched on that. So that's good. Okay, that's good. Yeah. I think I heard you

483
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:08,080
say on another podcast somewhere that you climb your best when you're having fun. And I do hear

484
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:13,520
a lot of people say that. But a lot of times when I hear that, I wonder how much of that is actually

485
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:18,720
just I'm only having fun when I'm climbing my best. Yeah, that's a good one. This is something that

486
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:25,280
I've been thinking about a lot this year, actually. Because obviously, yeah, I've had a great time,

487
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:33,040
like, pretty much every World Cup has been a lot of fun. And I was like, oh, you know, this makes

488
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:38,080
sense. Like, I'm gonna climb well when I'm having fun. But then yeah, I was like, also though,

489
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:46,400
I haven't really climbed bad. So it's interesting to know. Yeah, like if, yeah, if I'm having a bad

490
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:51,680
comp, is it just as easy to say, like, you can still have fun and it's okay? I don't know, it's

491
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:58,560
also something I'm still trying to work out a bit. But something that I do try and just focus on

492
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:07,040
every competition is like, trying my best doesn't necessarily mean a certain outcome. It's like,

493
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:11,680
whatever I can do on that day is my best and trying to just be okay with what that is.

494
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:20,000
And also just trying to focus on every round. Like, I definitely found in Innsbruck after Salt Lake

495
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:27,200
when I had made finals, I was already thinking about climbing in semis to make finals, rather

496
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:34,160
than focusing on qualities. So I wasn't able to like stay present and it didn't enjoy it as much.

497
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:41,920
And then I didn't climb as well. So it's kind of like the whole process that you have to have to

498
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:47,760
enjoy climbing and then also climb well, I think. Can you think of a comp where it didn't go well,

499
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:54,800
but you still had fun? I guess, I don't know if I would even consider Innsbruck not well, but

500
00:50:54,800 --> 00:51:04,160
in semis, I don't feel like I climbed my best, but I still did enjoy the round. I mean, it was a brutal

501
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:11,760
round. It was like one top got you into finals. So it was really hard setting, but I did enjoy the

502
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:17,600
style quite a lot. So I felt pretty beat up after, but I was like, to be honest, still some fun

503
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:21,600
boulders. Way too hard, but a fun round. Maybe that's one of them.

504
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:27,200
Yeah. Okay. That's good. Okay. And last question I kind of had about the IFSC season. I guess this

505
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:31,840
is also kind of just like a general question. I don't remember what prompted me to wonder this,

506
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:37,600
but do you prefer when finals are in the same day as semis or when it's separate? And like,

507
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,920
how does it affect your preparation? Yeah, that's also a good question. I think

508
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:50,400
for lead, I really like it when we do semis in the same day. And I think that's also a good

509
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:56,240
thing. I think it's better to have semis and finals in the same day and then finals is by itself the

510
00:51:56,240 --> 00:52:05,360
next. Just in terms of like warm up and that kind of thing, it just is a lot easier. For bouldering,

511
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:11,520
I think it's better to have semis and finals in the same day. Because to do a quality round in

512
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:18,480
bouldering and semis, we've done that. I think it's only happened once in Innsbruck and it is

513
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:24,640
way too tiring. So yeah, I think for lead, I like qualies and semis the same day, but for bouldering

514
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:29,440
finals and semis in the same day is better. Well then, I guess looking far into the future,

515
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:38,880
the Olympics will eventually be in Australia in 2032. Yes. Time is moving fast. It is still a

516
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:47,280
little while from now, but do you have eyes set on that? Yeah, I do. A part of me really wants it to

517
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:55,600
be like my last competition where I retire because it's what Akina Gucchi did for Tokyo. I just like

518
00:52:55,600 --> 00:53:00,320
that would be really cool. But then also another part of me hopes that I'm still doing well comps

519
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:06,480
after that. So I'll just want to be there either way. Yeah, I mean, why not? If I'm still enjoying

520
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:13,360
it and wanting to, I hope to be climbing for a long, long, long time like Shane Kim and stuff

521
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:21,440
like that. So I'm all to go to them. How old will you be at that time? 31, I think. Yeah,

522
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:29,440
not bad. Yeah, I guess you would definitely be on the older end of athletes who are competing

523
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:36,720
at that time, especially if you want to continue doing it after. Can you imagine anything that

524
00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:45,520
would make you not want to go for the Olympics? I don't think so. I mean, I'm not someone who

525
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:50,800
I don't want to have kids or anything like that. Oh really? So that wouldn't be something that

526
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:57,360
stops me. Yeah. You're already certain about that? Yeah, pretty much. I've kind of known for a while

527
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:02,640
that I didn't want to have kids. I have a lot of sisters and I then already have a lot of nieces

528
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:08,640
and I love spending time with them. And yeah, I think I, like I said, I want to be climbing for

529
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:14,240
a long time and focusing on that. So yeah, it's not really something I was very interested in from a

530
00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:19,200
young age and still I'm not. Okay. I think that makes the choice a lot easier actually, because

531
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:23,440
I don't know, I feel like it must take, I mean, it definitely takes a lot out of you,

532
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:32,320
like mentally, but also like physically, it's like a huge, it's a huge thing to ask. So yeah,

533
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:36,480
that's good that you've already made that decision because then you can just like plan your life

534
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:41,920
around that. I feel like I'm kind of in like this undecided phase. So it's like, well, I don't really

535
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:47,120
know what to plan for because maybe I will and maybe I won't. Yeah, it's an easy decision, I guess.

536
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:54,080
I feel like I'm kind of lucky that I do since I was like maybe 16 even. I was like, nah, nah,

537
00:54:54,080 --> 00:55:00,800
it's not really for me. Yeah. Okay. Well then it'll be a lot easier for you to keep climbing as you

538
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:07,440
get older. Yeah. So outside of climbing, is there anything that you've been like particularly

539
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:11,040
enjoying recently or anything you've done in like the past couple of weeks when you haven't been

540
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:17,440
climbing that you really liked? Yeah, I'm really into baking. Like I said, I'm like vegan and gluten

541
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:24,560
free, so it always adds a little extra challenge to that mix. But yeah, I really like baking.

542
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:30,480
I think eventually one day I want to like own my own gym with my sisters and have like a little

543
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:35,680
bakery on the side of it. Oh, that would be so nice. Do you have like a recipe that you want to share?

544
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:42,240
I am obsessed with like lemon and poppy seed cake at the moment and like a lot of citrusy things.

545
00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:47,520
Is it easy to make? Yeah, pretty easy. I usually do like a one bowl like situation and then you

546
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:53,520
just pop it in the oven and it comes out delicious. So yeah, maybe I'll check out my Instagram at

547
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:58,320
some point. Maybe I'll put a recipe up or something. Right. Highlights. Yeah, I'll add that to the show

548
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:04,320
notes if people want to find out. Yes. But yeah, actually when we were in Korea, Korea has like so

549
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:12,000
many amazing bakeries and cafes and they have salt bread. Have you heard of that? No, I don't think

550
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:19,040
so. Okay, it's almost a cross between a croissant and like a fluffy bread and they put like this

551
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:24,640
really coarse salt on top of it. It's like one of the best things I've eaten. It's actually insane.

552
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:32,400
And we can't find it in Australia, like a vegan version. So I tried to make it the other day.

553
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:38,560
I failed really hard, but it's something that I'm looking forward to trying again and testing out

554
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:43,440
because yeah, it's quite a fun process. It's almost similar to making croissants. Like it takes a lot

555
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:49,920
of time and patience. So it could be an interesting one. Well, I hope that works out. Was it vegan

556
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:54,640
when you were in Korea, the salt bread? Yeah, vegan and gluten free. I don't know how they did it.

557
00:56:54,640 --> 00:57:02,240
It was so fluffy and amazing. So yeah, Korea's on another level with like vegan gluten free

558
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:08,000
gluten free baking type of stuff. I know. Really? I wouldn't have expected that at all.

559
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:12,960
Yeah, they have like the highest amount of vegan gluten free bakeries out of anywhere I've been.

560
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:18,400
It's insane. Yeah, that's really surprising. Like usually when I think of Asian countries,

561
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:26,160
I think it's like pretty meat heavy and like even Korea like, or not dairy, they don't like drink a

562
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:32,160
lot of dairy, but just like dairy and like cooking and stuff like that. Yeah. I think Korea's one of

563
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:39,360
the places that's like, they have a lot of vegan restaurants and cafes. It's like not super easy

564
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:45,120
to find them, but once you do, there's a lot. It just means that like a lot of the restaurants

565
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:50,720
have like no vegan options until you go to like a vegan place. There's not like a lot of options

566
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:56,480
just in the regular restaurants. You have to like find them, but when you do, really good. Yeah,

567
00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:00,960
I guess this is kind of one of the discord questions that we'll get into early, but someone

568
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:05,200
asked how do you navigate a vegan diet while traveling for competitions? Yeah, it can be

569
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:11,680
pretty hard sometimes. To be honest, in like Europe and the US and stuff, it's quite easy.

570
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:20,080
And we usually get Airbnbs so that we can cook our own meals, which is really helpful. The hardest

571
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:26,080
place that we've found is usually like in the competitions in China, just because the buffets

572
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:34,480
don't usually offer like, yeah, like offer anything vegan, which is quite hard. But so for comps like

573
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:39,920
that, we take a lot of our own food. Like I'll take oats and protein powder and things like that.

574
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:44,960
So breakfasts and then we do a lot of cooking in a kettle, to be honest.

575
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:46,960
Like in the hotels.

576
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:53,120
Yeah, we'll find a grocery store and find like rice noodles or something and boil them with

577
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:59,440
vegetables and just buy like some soy sauce or stock or something like that, which can be a good

578
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:05,440
tip. Hopefully for next year, we're going to get like a little like travel cooker, which I think

579
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:13,280
will be a little more hygienic and better. But so far, that's been our solution.

580
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:20,480
Yeah, and you seem to, I guess, really enjoy Japan and Korea. Any like particular reason? Like is it

581
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:25,760
just the climbing or the culture or are you like a weeb or a Koreaboo?

582
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:36,880
Yeah, I mean, Japan, for sure, I mean, the climbing is amazing. And it's kind of like one of the first,

583
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:42,640
I think it was my first World Cup was in Japan. I just remember going and climbing at B-Pump and

584
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:50,400
and like meeting a lot of like my role models in climbing and inspiration. So it has like a special

585
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:58,240
place in my heart, I guess. But I also, I'm like learning Japanese. I love the food. I love matcha.

586
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:04,400
It's like, I love just in general being there, like the shopping and I just love Japan in general for

587
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:13,280
everything about it. And Korea is pretty similar, I guess. I again, the climbing style is really fun.

588
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:20,240
The food is good. The people are really lovely. I love K-pop. So there's just a lot of things about

589
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:22,160
them that I really enjoy.

590
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:26,400
Do you like watch anime or like K-dramas or anything like that?

591
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:34,240
Yeah, I not so much at the moment. I just watched culinary wars, which was really good. Which is

592
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:40,880
like a Korean cooking show. But I do yeah, I do really get into Korean dramas. And I've watched a

593
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,920
little bit of anime, but not as much anime. Yeah.

594
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,080
Okay, anything you'd want to recommend?

595
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:53,200
Haikyuu for anime is amazing. And actually like really motivating for competitions and climbing,

596
01:00:53,200 --> 01:01:00,560
I think. And feeling a bit down sometimes I think it can be a really good show. And my favorite

597
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:04,480
K-drama is Weightlifting Fairy Kim Bok-ju.

598
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:08,800
So those are like kind of sports related, right? Haikyuu is the volleyball?

599
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,200
Haikyuu is the volleyball one?

600
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:11,440
Yeah.

601
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:18,400
I guess do you ever so like sometimes if I am like not super psyched to go do a climbing session,

602
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:24,960
I will watch like climbing on YouTube or like watch climbing competitions. Do you ever watch

603
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:28,560
competitions to get psyched for training or competitions?

604
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:35,120
Not a lot actually. I feel like I'm getting more and more into music as a motivation.

605
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:42,160
But I would say that there have been times when I've randomly got a lot of inspiration from like

606
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:47,040
watching outdoor videos of people. Like if I'm just scrolling on YouTube or something and I see

607
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:52,400
videos come up and they're like, oh wow, okay, this made me really inspired for rock. So it could be

608
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:55,040
something that I should try out actually.

609
01:01:55,600 --> 01:02:00,400
Well, I mean if Haikyuu works for you to get psyched, I guess that works as well.

610
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:01,360
Yeah, true.

611
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:06,960
One of my last questions, is there a little fact about you that you would like repeated on the

612
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,920
live stream other than just she goes by Osh?

613
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:17,840
Yeah, it's actually funny because I've said like, oh, you know, like you can call me anything. I

614
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:24,240
really don't mind. But now it's kind of funny when people just like on the street will be like,

615
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:29,040
call me by Osh because I guess it's like a nickname. So one of my friends calls me Osh.

616
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:32,080
Because I guess it's like a nickname. So one of my friends call me that.

617
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:36,400
And it's kind of a weird feeling to have like strangers now know me as Osh. I'm like, oh,

618
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:38,800
oh yeah, okay. Yeah, it's a funny one.

619
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:42,320
But yeah, a fact that I want people to know about.

620
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:46,880
I don't know. I feel like that's such a hard question. I feel like people know

621
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:53,440
most things about me now. Like usually my like pictures that I'm vegan.

622
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:56,640
Yeah. And it has to be like really short.

623
01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:59,040
Yeah, maybe that I love to bake.

624
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:03,440
Okay. We'll see if that one gets picked up instead of the other one.

625
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:09,600
Okay, so I think those are all of my questions. We can get into some of the discord questions now.

626
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:14,640
The first one I'm not sure about. This person asked,

627
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:19,600
could you imagine doing a Swiss bouldering comp next year? Not sure if you're eligible.

628
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:24,560
Yeah, I think I technically can compete at the Swiss Cups.

629
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:32,080
But I don't think I would just because I don't really think it fits in that well with like

630
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:37,840
preseason training and stuff like that. But maybe I'd go and watch in Gia if I'm around.

631
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:42,800
I mean, are you planning on doing this like huge travel season again this year?

632
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:45,200
Or are you going to stay in Australia more?

633
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:51,520
No, actually, I plan on doing Beat Trip again. So I'm going back to Europe in January.

634
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:57,200
Where I'll be in Switzerland for a little while. I'm really keen to do some training in Paris

635
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:01,680
and a little bit maybe in Germany. And probably I'll go to Innsbruck for a trip.

636
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:03,680
You got to when you're in Europe.

637
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:10,960
And then from there, I will go to Japan before the first World Cup of the season in China.

638
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:17,440
And pretty much just like hopping around from comp to comp until September,

639
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:21,600
when we have World Champs in Seoul, and then after that head home. So another big year.

640
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:22,160
Wow.

641
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:23,280
Smaller than this one.

642
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,280
Okay, so like another 9-10 months.

643
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:31,440
Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, would be. Yeah, I feel like for me now, when I think about it in like

644
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:39,520
a lump sum, it's like, damn, but the year goes so fast that it honestly doesn't even feel like it.

645
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:44,240
And then when I get back home, it's like everything's back to normal. So it's kind of crazy.

646
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:49,840
I don't know. Well, that's kind of good. Okay, next question. This person read in your profile

647
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:54,720
that you know Japanese. Do you have any particularly interesting experiences in Japan?

648
01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:02,560
The first one that comes to mind is once my sister and I got back late from training,

649
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:11,360
and we wanted to find some soba noodles for dinner. And we found this tiny little noodle shop

650
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:15,840
and there was like all these old ladies there, like who were the cooks. And I was like trying to

651
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:20,960
communicate with them that we were vegan and like just telling them the foods that we couldn't eat

652
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:24,720
and the foods that we could eat. And I was like trying to do it in Japanese while they also

653
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:29,280
trying to speak some English, which was like a really wholesome experience. That was pretty nice.

654
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:32,000
Kind of satisfying. Yeah.

655
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:34,080
What level do you feel like your Japanese is at?

656
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:39,280
Honestly, I've been doing it for so long, but I feel like it's never been that bad.

657
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:43,280
Honestly, I've been doing it for so long, but I feel like it's not that great.

658
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:46,640
Yeah. How long have you been learning?

659
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:52,400
I think since like, I would say properly learning. I'm pretty off and on, especially throughout the

660
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:57,440
season. Like during the comps when I'm getting a bit more fatigued, I don't do it as much.

661
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:01,600
But like in pre-season, I was doing it pretty like quite a lot.

662
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:08,000
But I feel like I'm maybe just above basic. I don't know. Hard to say as well.

663
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,440
With like the random topics that I know and don't know.

664
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:16,400
Yeah. I mean, are you just doing it through like Duolingo or something else?

665
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:22,960
I was doing a lot through Duolingo, but also YouTube and then like podcasts and things like that.

666
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:26,800
I feel like it's probably a hard language to learn. So it's cool that you know any.

667
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:28,400
Yeah. Thanks.

668
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:36,080
Okay. So last question. Do you feel like gyms in Australia are too focused on profits and not

669
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:40,800
focused enough on progression in the sport? For example, setting harder boulders,

670
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,080
thorough testing of those boulders, et cetera?

671
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:51,120
I would definitely say that gyms in Australia are more focused on commercial climbing than on

672
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:59,360
professional climbing. And I think, yeah, I think there are a lot of people in Australia who are

673
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:04,880
wanting to get more and more kind of competition style setting and things like that. But because

674
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:10,640
it was such a small community, a lot of setters are kind of getting a bit burnt out and don't

675
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:19,600
quite have the energy for it at the moment, which is a bit of a shame. So yeah, I mean, I do a lot

676
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:26,080
of my training on on spray walls and things just because I think it's hard for gyms to keep up the

677
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:33,040
standard of competition style climbing, especially like World Cup level. We do have a lot of really

678
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:39,280
some really good setting in Australia, but it's just not still not at the level of World Cups,

679
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:46,720
for sure. Yeah, I guess like what is kind of the level of difficulty of gyms in Australia? Like,

680
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:52,480
do you feel like you can learn and progress on it? Or is it kind of like you go to the gym

681
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:58,720
and you can do everything? Yeah, I would say most of the time it's maintenance in the gym for me.

682
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:06,560
It doesn't usually, usually like occasionally we do get some really great sets, but most of the time

683
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:12,160
it's kind of like, I don't get anything too mentally and physically challenging. And that's

684
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:19,120
why I do a lot of like spray wall or like illuminates, I guess. That's kind of one of

685
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:24,880
the biggest issues for me in Australia is they're like for training, I don't get that like extra

686
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:30,560
push that I need to progress as much as I want. And even if that's not just in boulders, it's also in

687
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:35,440
like the environment and the support in Australia, just in general for competition climbing.

688
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:40,800
Which obviously when I go to Switzerland and everything, I can train at the Swiss Training

689
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:47,920
Centre around other athletes with a coach there. So it's like just the environment leads to

690
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:55,520
progression in such an easy way. Like having competition around you. Yeah, exactly. And in a

691
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:58,880
motivating way to like the people are really great. I think I just like click really well with the

692
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:05,760
team there too, which is really helpful. In Australia, something that I want to work on is

693
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:11,280
like it not being a kind of maintenance place for me to train, but somewhere that I can while I am

694
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:18,880
back home also progress. So still working on it. Yeah, I mean, I guess your sisters also climb a

695
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:23,360
bit and you mentioned that you were kind of considering owning a gym one day. Is that

696
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:28,800
something like super far in the future or are they like, you guys are doing a little research?

697
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:34,800
I think it's still pretty far, unfortunately, in the future. At the moment, just don't have the

698
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:40,560
funds for it. Especially while I'm already trying to fund for this. It is quite expensive. Yeah.

699
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:47,040
And right now, the focus is on like just funding the seasons and also being able to like bring my

700
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:53,520
sister as my support person. That kind of thing is taken up all of that. So one day it will happen.

701
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:59,200
Oh, I guess I forgot to ask about that in terms of like how your sister manages to travel around

702
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:06,320
with you for the whole season. Yeah. So this year I tried to like fund as much as I could for her.

703
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:16,160
She also like had some savings from work in general and she did do a little bit of work

704
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:25,120
overseas as well, setting in some gyms. But yeah, because she's coming to support me a lot of the

705
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:30,000
time I wanted to try and make sure that she wasn't going at a loss. So I tried to cover as much as I

706
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:36,560
could. Yeah, we did pretty okay this year, but still tough every time, I think, for two people.

707
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:41,120
Yeah. Does she like set for you a lot when you're training and like abroad?

708
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:47,200
To be honest, she doesn't set as much. I mean, she does set a little bit on spray walls and

709
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:54,720
things like that. And she also helps sometimes in warm up for competitions. But most of the time,

710
01:10:55,680 --> 01:11:01,600
she's there like as a support. Like we talk about climbing a lot. She does like a lot of debriefs

711
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:08,320
with me and kind of like my mentality. And then also like, yeah, we're really close. So having

712
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:12,320
her just around as we're traveling makes it a much more enjoyable experience for me.

713
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:18,000
Any like favorite memory from the past season that comes to mind with your sister?

714
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:23,520
I think Prague really stands out. Like making podium with both of my sisters being there was

715
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:27,440
really cool because we were all like, we were kind of had a feeling that Prague could be the

716
01:11:27,440 --> 01:11:31,840
one that it would happen at. And then when it did, it was like, just really exciting. It just,

717
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:36,320
yeah, it was really nice to have that like all the work we all put in. Like it's a big team method.

718
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:41,840
It finally come out and it be all together was really special. Okay, that's really sweet.

719
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:48,160
And I think that's probably a good point to end on. I think that's all the questions I had as

720
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:52,800
well as the discord questions. Do you have any like final thoughts that you want to get out there?

721
01:11:55,040 --> 01:12:00,880
Not really. Yeah, it was fun to chat with you. Okay. Yeah. Do you want to like let people know

722
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:07,680
where they can find you? Yeah, sure. Yeah, I'm on Instagram and TikTok at Oceana underscore climbing.

723
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:14,560
And then I also have a YouTube channel, Oceana Mackenzie. Check me out there. Okay, awesome.

724
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:20,000
Well, thank you for joining. Thank you for joining me today. And it was amazing to talk to you.

725
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:25,200
Thank you. It was really fun. Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast.

726
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:31,280
Don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed. Otherwise, you are a super fake climber. If you're

727
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:36,720
listening on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you rate it five stars and you can continue the

728
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:55,600
discussion on the free competition climbing discord linked in the description. Thanks again for listening.