1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,040 I mean, what am I doing this for? 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:05,040 If I will end up, I don't know, in a wheelchair 3 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,000 being severely disabled anyway. 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,880 Also one thing which I think got most of the controversy 5 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,360 and tears and drama was the introduction 6 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,800 of minimum impairment criteria. 7 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,160 I think at the end, it was more than 12,000 meters of altitude 8 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,720 to climb up with a bike. 9 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:24,800 We are para climbers. 10 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:26,120 We're not searching for problems. 11 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,560 We are searching for solutions. 12 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,640 Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing 13 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:32,840 podcast. 14 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,200 I'm your host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce 15 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,640 my guest, Sebastian Depke. 16 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,160 Sebastian is a German para climber. 17 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:42,960 He is also the chair of the Para Climbing Commission, 18 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,320 and he worked on filing the application 19 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,080 to get climbing into the Paralympics for LA 2028, 20 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,520 which only recently got approved. 21 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,180 In this episode, we'll learn about his journey 22 00:00:54,180 --> 00:00:57,200 accepting that his disease would affect his body 23 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,840 and climbing forever, what the process was 24 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,160 like for getting climbing into the Paralympics, 25 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,840 the drama behind the para climbing classification 26 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:11,280 process, and we talk about his harrowing 1,000 kilometer 27 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,920 journey to the Innsbruck World Cup on just a solar hand bike. 28 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,320 Hope you enjoy this episode with Sebastian. 29 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:28,560 How are you doing today? 30 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:29,080 I'm good. 31 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:29,920 Thank you. 32 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,200 I'm really good. 33 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:32,800 We'll get into it a bit more later, 34 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,640 but are you preparing for another solar bike journey, 35 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,640 or are you going to take that to Paris, the Olympics? 36 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,960 At the moment, I'm riding between Innsbruck, 37 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:47,040 the World Cup, and Villars, the Europe Championships. 38 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:51,720 And yes, I went to Innsbruck with the solar bike. 39 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,960 And from Innsbruck to my parents' home in Germany, 40 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,480 I did the second part of the solar bike trip. 41 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,520 So I've got a lot of things to organize now, 42 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:01,920 a lot of things to repair. 43 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:07,560 And I will start the journey towards Villar mid of August. 44 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,200 When is Villar coming up? 45 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:10,740 Villar is the European Championships. 46 00:02:10,740 --> 00:02:12,120 It's all disciplines together. 47 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:13,160 So it's para climbing. 48 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,920 It's lead, boulder, speed, all together in Villar one week, 49 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:18,300 which started with para climbing. 50 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:21,440 And we are on the 24th and 25th of August. 51 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,720 OK, that'll be exciting. 52 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:24,840 Good luck there. 53 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:25,680 Thank you. 54 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,680 So let's get right into it. 55 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:30,320 For those who don't know, how and when 56 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,160 did you get into climbing? 57 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,600 I started climbing in 1998. 58 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:40,000 So that's 26 years now ago. 59 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,640 Got into it through some friends with auto climbing, 60 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:47,040 and then got hooked immediately. 61 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,400 And at that time, there weren't that many gyms. 62 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,820 So my climbing started mostly with auto climbing. 63 00:02:55,820 --> 00:03:01,960 And that's where still my heart beats most for some to say. 64 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:03,840 It's auto climbing for sure. 65 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,440 And over the years, I got more and more into it. 66 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:14,040 And with starting my studies at the age of 19, 20, 67 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,440 also with being able to drive my own car at the age of 18, 68 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,480 that took off a lot. 69 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,840 And from that moment on, I really got more and more serious 70 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,040 into climbing. 71 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:26,320 Wow, 28 years ago. 72 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:27,920 Or 26 years ago? 73 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,000 Yeah, 26 years. 74 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,680 Yeah, that's almost as long as I've been alive. 75 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,720 So that's really cool. 76 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,320 And how long have you been competing in the IFSC? 77 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,120 I'm competing since 2017. 78 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,880 That's when I learned to know that it actually exists. 79 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:53,280 I started climbing at the age of 13 in 1998. 80 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,720 And at those times, I still had the first symptoms 81 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,480 of my disease, which is called ankylosing spondylitis. 82 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,240 It started more or less at the same moment. 83 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,240 It's a rheumatic disease where inflammations lead 84 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:12,040 to the fusion of, in my case, of the whole backbone and my hips. 85 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,760 So I just have my arms and my shoulders are also limited, 86 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,800 and my knees and my ankles for climbing. 87 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:19,400 That's all what's left for me. 88 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:20,840 But I have a whole climbing career 89 00:04:20,840 --> 00:04:23,360 before being severely disabled. 90 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,480 Oh, actually I didn't know that. 91 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:31,080 Yeah, so there's still a Sebastian climbing 92 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,160 without being severely impaired. 93 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,400 It's also the time where I did lots of other things. 94 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,600 So I saw lots of different parts of climbing, 95 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:46,080 including doing first ascent, bolting routes, 96 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:51,680 replacing old gear on routes, multi-pitch, alpine, 97 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,040 sport climbing. 98 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:58,760 So yeah, also aid climbing, big wall. 99 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:03,160 Also put my nose into that for a very short moment. 100 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,640 So yes, so I've seen lots of different stuff. 101 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,160 And now, so to say, plastic climbing 102 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,560 is one of the least exciting, or let's say, 103 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:18,040 the least adventurous part of my climbing work that I do. 104 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:19,320 Well, it's big fun. 105 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,280 And I still do stuff like, well, I 106 00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:25,200 don't need climbing anymore for safety reasons. 107 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,920 But I still do have, if I have to occasion, for example, 108 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,520 I still don't multi-pitch, for example. 109 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,360 And I also bolt new routes from time to time. 110 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,840 OK, yeah, so I was going to ask, was most of that outdoor stuff 111 00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:42,440 before the disability started to kick in? 112 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:47,640 Or do you still do bolting and, I guess, 113 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,240 probably no big wall stuff? 114 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:50,600 Well, a big wall, not anymore. 115 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,160 It was just one try once. 116 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,280 But multi-pitch, yeah, if I have the occasion for something, 117 00:05:57,280 --> 00:05:59,480 yes, and dreams and projects. 118 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:00,920 Also with other part-timers, there's 119 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:05,800 a funny video of Urko, the guy from Team Spain 120 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,880 with leg amputation. 121 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,840 And I, we tried together in the Malas de Rigos, 122 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:13,600 that's a big sandstone conglomerate towers here 123 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:20,760 in Spain, tried to get on top of those really interesting towers. 124 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,360 And we also did more than just that, what's shown in the video. 125 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,360 So from time to time, I get the occasion 126 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:27,520 to do something like that. 127 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,880 And for example, after the World Cup in Salt Lake, 128 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:35,200 I went with a teammate, Kevin, who went together to Red Rocks 129 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:36,960 and did some multi-pitch there. 130 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:43,040 And yeah, so I tried to combine things. 131 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,080 I don't see any sense in just flying halfway around the world 132 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,920 to just climb two or maybe three routes, 133 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,400 that you don't even climb to the top, most likely, on plastic, 134 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,080 and then fly back home again. 135 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:57,760 Yeah, makes sense. 136 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,160 That's not what's into my idea of climbing, so to say. 137 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:03,600 Once I'm there, I want to see more. 138 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:04,760 I want to do more. 139 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,000 I hope I can combine it in the future as well, 140 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,920 and so to keep up this combining things a bit. 141 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,520 So to be honest, I don't climb that much on plastic. 142 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:14,480 I live in Spain. 143 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,120 I'm competing for a team journal, but I live in Spain. 144 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:24,400 And I don't have good gym, let's say, possibilities here, 145 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,880 which are nearby and which fit to my needs, not at all. 146 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,840 I just can do bouldering here. 147 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,920 And for safety reasons, I just do low traverses. 148 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,960 So if I go bouldering, you just find me on a spray wall 149 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,240 doing max power training. 150 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,440 Nothing else like that. 151 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,960 And to be honest, yeah, it's good for your maximum power, 152 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,600 but it's not always fun. 153 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,040 If I want to really have fun or also, for example, 154 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,040 if I want to do that kind of maximum power training, 155 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,720 I also can go outdoors and project some hard routes. 156 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,240 That's basically the same. 157 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,880 You can also do bouldering on top rope on a hard project. 158 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:10,640 That's, in my opinion, mostly a similar effect. 159 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,440 So how's the accessibility between the gym 160 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:15,760 versus going outside? 161 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,400 Because I would imagine it's sometimes pretty hard 162 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,800 to get to the crags or the boulders outside, 163 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,040 depending on what the trails are like. 164 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:26,640 Yeah, sure. 165 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:33,600 For example, if I try to do something like multi-pitch 166 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,160 or something like that, that's where mostly the approaches are 167 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:38,760 really, really hard. 168 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:43,520 There we have to select by what's the easiest one. 169 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:48,360 So short approach and not scrambling too many kilometers 170 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,520 through loose rock sections or getting up 171 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:57,240 loose rock fields or something like that, that's terrain 172 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,400 which is almost impossible to me. 173 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,040 But if it's a normal sport climbing crag, 174 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,640 which is accessible, so why not? 175 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,640 I don't see it that much as a big thing for me, 176 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:14,000 but I've got to say I'm not relying on a wheelchair, 177 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,280 for example. 178 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,440 In that case, it would be totally different stories. 179 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,480 But if I see what my friends are doing 180 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,800 who are in a wheelchair, they get even to those crags 181 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:29,720 with aid of friends and they don't care. 182 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:30,800 We are power climbers. 183 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,160 We're not searching for problems. 184 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,120 We are searching for solutions. 185 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,160 That's a good statement, a good way to put it. 186 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:42,240 So how old were you when you started to develop? 187 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:43,440 Ikylosing spondylitis. 188 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:44,880 Ikylosing spondylitis. 189 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,480 Yeah, how old were you when that started? 190 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,240 It started at the age of 13. 191 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,920 So you might say, wow, that's pretty young 192 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,960 for rheumatic disease. 193 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:59,160 And that's correct, but it's a specific form of rheumatism. 194 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,800 By the way, it's the second most frequent one 195 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,960 right after rheumatic arthritis. 196 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:11,840 And here in northern Europe, it affects more or less 197 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:16,160 almost 0.5% of the population. 198 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,280 So that's 1 in 200. 199 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,320 And those are just the ones who get diagnosed. 200 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,800 That means there is the assumption 201 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,760 that there are way more cases that did not get a diagnosis 202 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,080 because their symptoms are just so low that you 203 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,440 don't get diagnosed. 204 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:37,560 So it starts with light pain, maybe just in your lower back, 205 00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:39,960 which can be everything. 206 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:45,400 And sometimes it's also in the hips, for example. 207 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,960 And as it's a progressive disease, 208 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:55,120 it does not go in a constant sort of level of pain. 209 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:56,880 It just comes and goes. 210 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:05,240 And if you have an active time with these rheumatic effects, 211 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,120 then it's maybe just a few days or a week or two 212 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,200 where you have got pain, and then it disappears completely. 213 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,240 And well, I mean, if it's in the beginning, 214 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,040 you think, well, it came on its own. 215 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:15,840 It went on its own. 216 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:20,160 So it shouldn't be that serious, no? 217 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,360 But then it comes back again, and there's a moment 218 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,440 where it leaves something. 219 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:28,320 And then you don't go back to level zero again. 220 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,640 You're slightly built up over time, more and more impairment. 221 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,080 And that's what also happened to me. 222 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,360 And I got diagnosed at the age of 21, by the way. 223 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,680 So that means eight years after having the first symptoms. 224 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:47,320 And you might think, wow, that's a long time. 225 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,400 But this is actually more or less average. 226 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,200 So in Europe, the statistics say, 227 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,960 I think it's seven years in between the first symptoms 228 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:00,040 and the final diagnosis, still on average in these days. 229 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:05,120 Because it starts slow, and it's hard to diagnose. 230 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,200 And especially those symptoms in the very beginning, 231 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:09,880 that can be everything. 232 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,120 And it's a hard diagnosis, and you really 233 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,240 have to be sure from a doctor's perspective 234 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,080 on who you're giving this label, so to say. 235 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,640 And also, there are certain criteria you have to fulfill. 236 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,600 And for example, if you are, as a patient, 237 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:31,840 not the one who just says it the way it's written in the doctor's 238 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:36,800 book, then maybe you don't get there, 239 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,640 or get there as easy as that. 240 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,560 And especially, there is another crux, 241 00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:47,880 which is this time dependency in between you 242 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,960 are having pain right now and when you get to the doctor. 243 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,680 Because let's say you have serious pain, 244 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:56,800 and you're like, oh, I need to go to the doctor. 245 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:58,760 You get an appointment next week. 246 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,640 And you go to the doctor, and your pain is gone. 247 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,040 Yeah, that's happened to me a bunch. 248 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,160 OK, and this happens quite often to people 249 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,820 with these form of diseases. 250 00:13:09,820 --> 00:13:12,760 And if you do that multiple times at the same doctor, 251 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,320 he will most likely say your problem is not 252 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,080 in your back or in your hips. 253 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,600 It's maybe right behind your eyes 254 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:20,680 and in between your ears. 255 00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:23,000 Mm, right. 256 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:23,800 Right? 257 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,200 So and that happens. 258 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,480 I know people with ankylosing spondylitis 259 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:34,680 who are coming out of the psychiatry 260 00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:41,200 and who were supposed to be like some where it was proposed. 261 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,520 There is some psychosomatic background 262 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,520 of this condition and not the rheumatic one. 263 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,280 So there are people who get crossovers, 264 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,600 let's say, from the psychiatry part 265 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,880 to the rheumatic department of the medicine, which sounds 266 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:56,640 crazy. 267 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,120 But I know multiple people where that happened to. 268 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,720 And trust me, if you experience something like that, 269 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,720 you have really trust issues in the medical system. 270 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,560 And I totally understand that. 271 00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:11,160 Yeah, when you finally, I guess, got your diagnosis, 272 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,560 was that kind of a relief for you then? 273 00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:16,120 Well, it was not so easy to get the diagnosis. 274 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,560 For me, that meant running half a year from doctor to doctor. 275 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,680 And one said, yeah, it's that. 276 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,000 Or the next one said, no, look at the picture. 277 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,440 Can be anything. 278 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,720 Just he did too much sport in the wrong way, whatever. 279 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,400 And the next one said, oh, maybe, yeah, 280 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:33,160 but look at that. 281 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,000 And I've got the next one to the next one to the next one. 282 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,520 And I had big question marks. 283 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:42,880 And getting such a label is hard. 284 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:43,680 It's really hard. 285 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,360 So for me, it was like falling into a black hole. 286 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,720 And at the time, I was studying chemistry 287 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:51,880 and being clinging a lot. 288 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,480 And it was like, well, I was standing in the chemistry lab 289 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:56,760 in the university. 290 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,160 And I was asking myself, what am I actually doing here? 291 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,160 Does it make actually sense? 292 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:03,520 What's my life now going to? 293 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:08,040 I've got a progressive disease which cannot be healed. 294 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,280 Is this the end now? 295 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,800 What am I doing this for if I will end up, I don't know, 296 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,240 in a wheelchair being severely disabled anyway? 297 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,920 Because you get told the consequence is 298 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:20,520 quite drastic and clear. 299 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,200 And everyone can Google and see what that means. 300 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:25,600 And it doesn't mean that you have 301 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,400 to get the hardest form of it. 302 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:33,040 But I mean, Dr. Thau, so honest to you. 303 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,200 I guess I just assumed that a lot of para climbers 304 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:42,040 started out climbing with their disability or impairment. 305 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:47,120 And so I'm kind of wondering what that process was for you 306 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,040 to realize that you got this diagnosis. 307 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:55,680 And then, I don't know, I guess, grieve like climbing 308 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,280 as you knew it? 309 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,720 First of all, just knowing the name for the thing that you 310 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,360 have does change your climbing. 311 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,160 I mean, you just know, OK, now it has a name. 312 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,040 But it's still your life is still, 313 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,000 like the pain is not less or not more just knowing that, 314 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,720 at least in my case. 315 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,480 The psychological part, yeah, that 316 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,880 was a big thing for the moment. 317 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:27,720 And for me, it was like climbing always 318 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:33,920 was this good moment where I know it's good for my body, 319 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:38,960 maintain flexibility, strength, and also just having fun. 320 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,680 It's so important. 321 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,520 And that's something which helped me along 322 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,320 or through a lot of dark hours. 323 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:53,480 So it was a way to help me through this process a lot. 324 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:59,920 And also because they say the most important part of therapy 325 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:03,000 is like stay flexible, stay flexible, stay flexible. 326 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,240 So do sport, do sport, and do sports. 327 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,240 And climbing is perfect therapy for that. 328 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,080 And so it was a good way to maintain my body 329 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,200 in a good shape. 330 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,680 And nevertheless, I had a really severe form 331 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,000 which developed down. 332 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:28,760 So I even stopped climbing. 333 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,160 I was just able to walk with crutches for two years. 334 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,480 And then there was a time when I didn't climb for a moment. 335 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,560 But then I even went back with the crutches to the rock 336 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,480 and started climbing again. 337 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,760 And after two years, it took me half a year 338 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,000 to get away from the crutches. 339 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,120 So my pain level dropped. 340 00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:52,320 And I had from that moment on no active inflammations anymore 341 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:52,880 in my body. 342 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,920 And since then, it also didn't higher back up, so to say. 343 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:03,400 So I'm officially in a stable state, which is also 344 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,960 which gives me actually the capability of doing 345 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,120 what I do now. 346 00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:11,160 Because doing sports in a too hard way 347 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,520 with ankylosing spondylitis might trigger new inflammations. 348 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,120 So you're always riding on that tiny edge of like doing, 349 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:22,120 I've got to do something to stay in shape, 350 00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:25,120 to stay flexible, to stay strong. 351 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:29,640 But if I go too far, I trigger the next big inflammation. 352 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,000 And then I might break down. 353 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,920 So it's like a really, really wide ride. 354 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:37,520 You have to manage that. 355 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,800 So do you ever have to hold back then 356 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,240 on trying harder? 357 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,360 Yeah, sure, sure, sure. 358 00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:46,520 I mean, if you get kicked out with hard inflammations, 359 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:51,320 you can, we all should take medication to reduce your pain 360 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,760 and then think, oh, I can try harder now. 361 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,440 Your body will show you that he's also 362 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,760 capable of showing you even harder what he was trying 363 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,160 to say to you before. 364 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,080 Right, so I do not recommend that at all. 365 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:09,440 And I mean, I'm not a doctor. 366 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,280 I cannot recommend anything. 367 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:12,320 I'm not in position. 368 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,400 I just learned on my own body that most important thing is 369 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,840 listen to myself to try to understand this game 370 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:21,480 what's happening there. 371 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:26,760 Because I learned that's so much more than just something 372 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,240 I cannot control has influence on my level of pain. 373 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,000 It's much more, for example, if I was lucky, I had less pain. 374 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,880 If I had stress, I had more pain. 375 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,840 If I eat certain things, I got more pain. 376 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,440 So for example, I tried a bit of alcohol, 377 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,400 inflammations just right through the roof. 378 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,080 And I was completely full of pain. 379 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,400 And I was asked, why do people think that this alcohol makes 380 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:52,840 sense or is funny? 381 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,480 I didn't get it. 382 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,800 I don't drink it until now, so I don't need it. 383 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,360 And same about caffeine, for example. 384 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:07,200 So my way was to identify those factors. 385 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,680 And it's like if you're sitting on a table, 386 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,240 and people are playing cards, but you don't know the rules. 387 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,040 But if you're so watched long enough, 388 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:17,520 you can reverse engineer the rules 389 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:23,600 and realize the repeating moments of the game 390 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,840 and trying to get an idea of what it's like. 391 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,520 And that's what I did with my body. 392 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,840 So I was studying science, chemistry, 393 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,160 and sitting at a doctor who said, yeah, we 394 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,720 don't know where it's coming from, and we cannot be healed. 395 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,120 And good luck. 396 00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:44,240 Was not the end for me, because it was like, OK, 397 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,080 someone is saying, I will not get it. 398 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:51,080 But that does not necessarily mean that there's no chance. 399 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,800 It just means that he does not know yet. 400 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,080 And when I always felt like, OK, there's 401 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,800 more than just that what the doctors say, 402 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,960 I said, OK, I'm going to dive into that. 403 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,840 I'm going to try to see what I can do with that 404 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:11,240 and get behind those things where I can do something. 405 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:17,360 And yeah, that led me on an adventurous path. 406 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:20,200 At the end, I mean, I'm here now. 407 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,280 I'm climbing. 408 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,920 I went through a deep, deep time of just being 409 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,880 able to walk crutches, almost sitting in a wheelchair. 410 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:35,200 And I've pied everything back for my life, and even more 411 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:36,600 than I did before. 412 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,400 I mean, I started scuba diving. 413 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,040 I'm doing a lot of things. 414 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,240 I do a lot of climbing. 415 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,200 Yeah, I got back a valid driver license. 416 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,640 I moved out to Germany, got self-employed. 417 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:58,320 So I think I'm living a life which 418 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,960 is a really privileged and lucky one. 419 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,960 And I'm a really happy guy, and I would say happier 420 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,440 than I was before. 421 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:13,040 And I found my luck in life in something completely different 422 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,280 than what it was before. 423 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:21,000 And I learned to read the things that my body wants 424 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,960 to tell me through my dialysis. 425 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:29,960 And I don't see it anymore as a burden or as something bad 426 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:30,800 that happens to me. 427 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,320 It's more like life showed me something, 428 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,880 and I tried to do something out of that. 429 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,880 And I always say, my slogan sort of says, take it, love it, 430 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,200 live it. 431 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,840 And that was the key for me, learning 432 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,640 to love what you have and trying to make the best out of it, 433 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,640 even if it's something which is considered 434 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,080 as the worst which can happen to you in life. 435 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,120 And that's what I'm trying to do every day. 436 00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:02,120 And that's why I'm here still here, 437 00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:06,800 and that's why I'm a happy guy, not being depressed and not 438 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:07,640 in a wheelchair. 439 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:08,160 Awesome. 440 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:08,680 OK. 441 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,440 And I mean, it's opened new opportunities to you 442 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:16,200 through paragliding and all the work that you do through that. 443 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:16,880 Sure. 444 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:17,400 Sure. 445 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,440 I mean, every year I do things where I say, 446 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,360 wow, I could not have imagined this one year ago. 447 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:28,040 And the interesting thing is that it continues year by year, 448 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,320 and something is asking, oh, what's 449 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,000 going to happen next year? 450 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,600 And I'm pretty sure we're going to talk about the Paralympics, 451 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:37,200 for example. 452 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,120 And this is one of those topics, for example, 453 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:42,520 a topic where I did not believe it could actually happen 454 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,720 and that it's happening, it's getting real, 455 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,320 and the consequences of this is also one example. 456 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,680 Just if someone would have told this to me one year ago, 457 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,120 I would say, yeah, come on. 458 00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:57,800 Take Lex from these drugs. 459 00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,800 It's better for everyone, please. 460 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:00,320 Yes. 461 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,920 I think that's a good transition into the Paralympics, which 462 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,200 for anyone who doesn't know, paragliding 463 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,680 has been approved as a sport for the Paralympics in LA, 464 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,680 2028, which is super exciting. 465 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,020 And you mentioned that you actually 466 00:24:15,020 --> 00:24:17,560 worked on filing the application for that. 467 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,640 So what was that process like? 468 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:20,680 Yeah. 469 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,280 I mentioned before I'm in the paragliding competition 470 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,640 scene since 2017. 471 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,720 I got there because I met Janek Ruder, 472 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:35,760 one of the bolder World Cup climbers from Team Slovenia 473 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,040 at that time. 474 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,480 He's not into the competition scene now anymore. 475 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,880 But I met him and he said, do you actually 476 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,600 know there's a competition format for you? 477 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,680 And I was like, what? 478 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:47,880 I don't know. 479 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,280 I didn't know how to spell IFSC and what that abbreviation 480 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,040 actually means in 2016 when I met him. 481 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,640 And so I googled a bit, found my way to the German team, 482 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,960 and since then I'm with them. 483 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:08,160 And in 2019, there was again elections for the IFSC athlete 484 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,360 representatives. 485 00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:16,000 And yeah, it was obvious that there were 486 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,040 lots of challenges in all the sport. 487 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:25,360 And I was not holding back and sharing my opinion. 488 00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:29,640 And at that time, I was speaking three languages, German, 489 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:30,760 English, and French. 490 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:36,240 And I was helping a lot out with communication, translation, 491 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:37,400 explaining things. 492 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,800 And I had proposals, et cetera, and said, 493 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,880 hey, let's do something. 494 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,120 And I think there were four candidates for the position, 495 00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:51,040 and the athletes voted in majority for me. 496 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,880 And since then, I was the athlete representative 497 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,280 for four years until 23. 498 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,960 I also got elected as the chair of the whole Paraclimbing 499 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:01,560 Commission. 500 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,760 So the Paraclimbing Commission in the IFSC 501 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:10,280 has two athlete representatives, coaches representatives, 502 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,920 experts, who, et cetera, and also classifiers. 503 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,000 So it's sort of say like everyone from this sport 504 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,080 sends a few experts to that table, 505 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,600 or a few representatives to that table, or one representative. 506 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:29,200 And those are the people who take the decisions, 507 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,080 discuss things, bring things from their community, 508 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,320 for example, to this table where decisions are made, 509 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,360 or what proposals are made, then towards the IFSC Executive 510 00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:41,720 Board where things are decided, for example, 511 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,080 or some decisions we can swallow ones 512 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,360 that we can take on our own, or like send, for example, 513 00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:52,120 new rule proposals, for example. 514 00:26:52,120 --> 00:27:01,120 And yeah, and since 2023, I'm just an expert in the commission. 515 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:03,160 And I'm still the chair. 516 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:10,880 And as part of that, the strategic plan from the IFSC 517 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:20,520 from 2020 to 2028 was getting sport climbing and power 518 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,040 climbing in the Olympic and the Paralympic Games 519 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,680 28 in Los Angeles. 520 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,680 And as it was in that plan, it was our commission, so to say, 521 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,000 who had the job to work on that. 522 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,840 And so I was the one who was guiding, accompanying, 523 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,000 leading the whole process behind the scenes 524 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,960 to get there, basically. 525 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,320 I guess what did you have to fill out 526 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,560 in terms of applying for the Paralympics? 527 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,000 So it's a long way. 528 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,840 I would start before that because there's actually, 529 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,880 I have to know that you have to apply seven years 530 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:03,040 before the Games. 531 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:04,000 Oh, wow. 532 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,840 And you have to apply every time from you again. 533 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,240 So it's not that you're in, for example, 534 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,520 a sport climbing got accepted as additional sport in Tokyo 2020. 535 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,640 So that did not automatically mean that sport climbing would 536 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,560 also be in Paris and also in LA. 537 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,000 They apply every time again. 538 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,880 Every sport does that. 539 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,400 And every edition of the Games has also 540 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,600 a different medals and athlete quota. 541 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,480 So because there is a top cap of the maximum number of athletes, 542 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,640 which is allowed due to the logistics, 543 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,520 capabilities of the Olympic Village, et cetera. 544 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,800 So you have to know that every medal that we get, 545 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,680 no matter if it's sport climbing or power climbing, 546 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,640 what every athlete we are allowed to bring more 547 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:58,240 to field of plays is reduced in another sport. 548 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,080 And also one big factor which is not known 549 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,080 is that just being as an able-bodied sport 550 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,800 in the Olympics does not necessarily 551 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,320 mean that your para sport is also in the Paralympics. 552 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,200 This is a precondition. 553 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,040 So your able-bodied partner sport 554 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:26,080 has to be Olympic to be able to apply for the Paralympics, 555 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,960 except one sport. 556 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,840 Except one sport is parabotcha because it has no able-bodied 557 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,680 partner sport. 558 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,520 But for the others, this is a precondition. 559 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,640 So if, for example, climbing would get kicked out 560 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,400 of the Olympics, automatically, power climbing 561 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,040 would also be not in the Paralympics anymore. 562 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,720 Well, good thing it's been confirmed through 32 at least. 563 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,400 Yeah, exactly. 564 00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:00,200 So for 32, Brisbane, we have to apply again. 565 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,600 And this is seven years in one. 566 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:08,400 So that official deadline will be in 2016, right, 567 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,280 if I counted correctly? 568 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,600 25 next year? 569 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,720 Yeah, well, I think it's six years and a half, more or less. 570 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,640 And since COVID, a few deadlines moved. 571 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:26,600 So yeah, and there's a Paralympic handbook 572 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,800 where all what I'm telling you here is also written. 573 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,800 And so if anyone's interested, go to Paralympic.org 574 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,760 and read through those documents. 575 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,440 That's what I did, by the way, in the very beginning 576 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,640 when I got told, OK, Seb, this is the project, Paralympics 577 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,240 LA 28. 578 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,200 See how you can do that. 579 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:48,280 And so that's what I did. 580 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,280 I just picked the Paralympic handbook 581 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,200 and read, OK, what are the requirements? 582 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,520 Where are we? 583 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,920 And you have to know the IOC, so the International Olympic 584 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,080 Committee, and the International Paralympic Committee. 585 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:07,280 So IOC, IPC are two separate organizations. 586 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,960 They have similarities, but at the end, they are separate. 587 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,040 And one thing which is similar is 588 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,440 that many of the criteria you have 589 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,760 to fulfill for getting accepted into the Paralympics 590 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,480 are the exact same as it is for the Olympics. 591 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,120 So for example, you need an organization. 592 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,040 You need to organize your sport in a way 593 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,920 that you have got an international federation, 594 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:32,840 you have got national federations, 595 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,600 and you have to have common rules, et cetera, et cetera. 596 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,040 There are a lot of, let's say, governance criteria 597 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:41,800 into that catalog. 598 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,800 And once you are ready for them for the Olympics, 599 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,200 you're automatically ready for the Paralympics as well. 600 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,480 And in our case, as power climbing 601 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,800 is also managed by the IFSC, like sport climbing is also 602 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,560 managed by the IFSC, this is like you check it once 603 00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,000 and then it's done. 604 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,960 Other power sports, for example, are separated and managed 605 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,680 by different organizations. 606 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,640 And that is, again, a different story. 607 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,400 Yeah, so you mentioned that it's never guaranteed 608 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,360 that you would be in the Olympics. 609 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:11,520 You have to apply every time. 610 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,960 But is it at least easier to make it into, say, like a? 611 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:17,880 Brisbane, Australia. 612 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:18,920 Oh, yeah, Brisbane. 613 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,760 Is it at least easier to make it in there after the LA games 614 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,080 happen, since you've already been in it once? 615 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,640 Yeah, once you have these criteria fulfilled. 616 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,160 And one of those, which we did not 617 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,080 fulfill in the beginning, was, for example, the IPC level 618 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,960 classification system. 619 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,640 So that's the big difference you have 620 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,040 in between an able-bodied sport and a power sport 621 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:46,440 is classification. 622 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,560 So classification means we look at our athletes 623 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,360 and regroup them into different groups 624 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:59,440 where we have an equal sport activity so that not 625 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,320 the least impaired wins, but the one who 626 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,880 brings the best performance or the best sport activity 627 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,120 in comparison to his impairment. 628 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,200 And we want to have a fair competition. 629 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,440 So that means we don't let, for example, a visually impaired 630 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,920 climb against someone who is leg-amputeed. 631 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,480 And this person, again, climbed against someone 632 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,400 who is arm-amputeed, for example. 633 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,080 Because that would not be a competition. 634 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:30,720 That would be like, I don't know, fun climbing together. 635 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:35,560 So we need to have as equal conditions as possible. 636 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,080 And for sure, every sport class. 637 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,880 So that's the result on what a classification leads to. 638 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,000 We group the athletes in sport classes. 639 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,240 And every sport class has an upper and a lower end. 640 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,120 So there's always strong two-range. 641 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,800 But at least it's fairer than having none at all. 642 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,600 So at the moment in power climbing, 643 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,840 we have 10 sport classes. 644 00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:02,600 And for example, once you have that system installed, 645 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,680 you have done a big, big step. 646 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,560 And this was one of the main, or I would say, 647 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,840 the biggest task for the whole power climbing commission 648 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,080 to fulcrum before we could apply. 649 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,320 Because when you apply for the games, and at the end, 650 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:22,960 you apply by actually filling out a questionnaire 651 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,080 and to show who you are, what you do. 652 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,480 And every sport does that. 653 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,720 And then the IPC and the IOC evaluates that 654 00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:32,680 and makes a decision based on that. 655 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:38,120 And that's a bit of a secret on what actually submitted. 656 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,120 And no one knows what the others write in there. 657 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,840 And sometimes I think it must be fun to work at the IPC 658 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:49,560 to read out of non-statements that will never be published. 659 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:57,480 And yeah, I say in climbing, we focus on our field of play, 660 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,000 which is the wall. 661 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,600 But at those Olympic federations, 662 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,360 they do sport with sports. 663 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,440 And it's more like sport A against sport B 664 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,920 against sport C, who's better? 665 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,640 Yeah, who can get more presentation? 666 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:18,560 Yeah. 667 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:19,800 Whatever, yeah. 668 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:25,760 So no one knows exactly how those criteria are weighted 669 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,640 and taken into consideration. 670 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,720 But once you have seen all of this process, 671 00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:35,400 it's like once you have climbed your project, 672 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,440 you know how it went. 673 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:40,280 Now it goes. 674 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:41,640 You know the beta. 675 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,040 And that's what we do now. 676 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,600 Now we sort of say, bolded our way 677 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,280 through this whole application process. 678 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,800 And we did it on site, I would say. 679 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,280 Like first trial. 680 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,920 It was the first trial we ever applied. 681 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,760 And we got accepted. 682 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:03,400 And you have to know that the Paralympic Games in 28 683 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:09,040 got 33 applications from 33 different sports, power sports. 684 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:16,040 And yeah, 22 were accepted right away. 685 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,680 And those are the 22 program sports, 686 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,120 which are the same like I know in Paris, 24. 687 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:28,360 And then the IOC, the IPC, granted local organizer, LA 28, 688 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:33,880 to decide if they want to have power climbing and slash 689 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,520 or power surfing as additional sports from their choice, 690 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,480 also into the Paralympic Games program. 691 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:51,200 And in 24, in June, it was published 692 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,880 that they did a long evaluation. 693 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,360 So we waited way longer than it was announced earlier. 694 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:58,360 Yeah, it was delayed. 695 00:36:58,360 --> 00:36:59,160 Yeah. 696 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:00,160 Yeah, it was delayed. 697 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,880 And that shows that negotiations must have been really 698 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,000 tough behind the scenes. 699 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,800 And I was always like trying to calm everyone down, 700 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,480 because no one knows what was going to happen. 701 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:16,440 Just reading that just means like it could be like LA 28 702 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,840 would say like, OK, sorry, we cannot handle 703 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:24,160 any additional sport anymore, or just one, or two. 704 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,360 No one knew the outcome. 705 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:31,040 And I always said like, as long as there is no no, 706 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,280 someone is still hoping, believing, and working on it. 707 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,000 And yeah, finally, we were in. 708 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,960 Surfing was out. 709 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,960 And sorry for your surfing. 710 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,000 I'm sorry for power surfing exactly, 711 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,120 because they went together to the Olympics. 712 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,440 So it was skating, surfing, climbing, 713 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,400 who got together, included into Olympics. 714 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,360 And now power climbing is the only power sport of those three 715 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,440 who is into the Paralympics. 716 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,600 And I know that power surfing applied also 717 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,920 before even for Paris, but got rejected. 718 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,320 And power climbing just applied for the very first time for LA. 719 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,080 And we did not know how this process would go. 720 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,560 So we just with the when I started 721 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:23,080 as an athlete representative in 2009, in 2020, 722 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,320 it started like, OK, this is the plan. 723 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,120 This is where we're going to go. 724 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:33,240 And yeah, I would say we just met the right people. 725 00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:35,880 We got the good ideas together. 726 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,840 And in the very beginning, I was talking 727 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,280 to many experts from these Paralympic teams. 728 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,240 So to say like, for example, National Paralympic 729 00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:46,120 Commissions, chief classifiers from other sports, 730 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,200 they were all telling me like, yeah, you can try. 731 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:49,880 But chances that you're going to be in LA 732 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,840 will be like super, super small. 733 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:57,760 And then also knowing like who are our competitors, 734 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,200 so to say, for the sports, knowing those sports 735 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,920 are applying for each edition of the games again, 736 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:04,960 and again, and again. 737 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,880 And they get rejected, rejected, rejected. 738 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,000 And some also got excluded, for example, power sailing, 739 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,520 for example. 740 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,840 And if you get excluded, you apply again. 741 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,040 So those are sports which are well-settled. 742 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,520 They know the process. 743 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,880 And we were, so to say, like the new guys 744 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,840 on the scene who had no idea on how this actually goes. 745 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:35,240 And I still have the feeling that this is the case. 746 00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:36,080 But never mind. 747 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:41,120 It's like if you see a line on a rock which you want to climb, 748 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,280 and you just say like no matter how hard or easy it is, 749 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,320 I just go for it because I like it. 750 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:48,280 This is my goal now. 751 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:49,640 And that's what we did. 752 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:50,160 Yeah. 753 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,400 I mean, sorry to Parasurfing. 754 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,240 And congrats on the on-site for getting into the Paralympics. 755 00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:56,920 Thank you. 756 00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,000 So do you know which sport classes 757 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,320 will be able to participate in the Paralympics? 758 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,200 Please excuse this brief intermission. 759 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,360 But I've gotten a few requests for this. 760 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,840 So I just wanted to announce that if you're 761 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,400 interested in helping support the show, 762 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,400 my Patreon page is now live. 763 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,720 Some perks include ad-free, interruption-free episodes, 764 00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:20,400 deleted scenes, prioritized guest questions, 765 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,920 or the ability to submit video questions, 766 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,120 an enamel pin shipped to you after two months of membership, 767 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,160 and much more to come. 768 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,480 The proceeds go back into the podcast to help me break even. 769 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,440 And they help improve the experience of the guests. 770 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,160 If you'd like to support the podcast non-monetarily, 771 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,840 liking, commenting, and sharing helps a great deal as well. 772 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,600 Back to the show. 773 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,520 At the moment, we don't know. 774 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,880 So now it's summer 24. 775 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:53,440 And according to the handbook, the final sport classes 776 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,880 at the final athlete and medal quarter 777 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,400 has always announced 3 and 1 half years, more or less, 778 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:00,160 before the game. 779 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,160 So that means mid 25. 780 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:03,920 We can expect that. 781 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:05,640 Maybe it would be towards the end. 782 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,160 So no one knows as deadlines are a bit moving. 783 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,880 But we expect this quota in 25. 784 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,240 And then it's up to the IFSC to decide 785 00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:19,000 which sport class is going to get Paralympic 786 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,720 and which one's not getting Paralympic. 787 00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:24,760 So as I said, we have 10 sport classes 788 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,920 at the moment for each gender. 789 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,480 We don't know how many medals we're going to get. 790 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,600 Would it be one, two, three, four, five? 791 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:34,560 I don't know. 792 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,400 Oh, wow, one is going to be hard. 793 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,400 One is going to be hard, yes. 794 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:44,280 And there will be tough decisions ahead of us. 795 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:48,800 And I hope the community will manage to stay together. 796 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,160 In other sports, this is a normal procedure already. 797 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,000 They are into it. 798 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:59,720 For our Paralympic community, it's always very challenging, 799 00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:04,080 as everyone has to learn new things over time now. 800 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,200 And just for example, the introduction 801 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,600 of the new classification system. 802 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,920 So we were coming from a classification system 803 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,480 before we introduced the IPSC one, which was just 804 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:15,840 2 and 1 half pages long. 805 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,840 Now we have 50 pages, more or less. 806 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,680 So 5, 0 pages. 807 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,160 And these are the model rules that the IPSC 808 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:30,200 requires you to have, which are in those forms, 809 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,800 and let's say more or less applied in all sports. 810 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,560 And so that means they are well tested, 811 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,960 they are well prepared, and they have considered so many things 812 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:46,240 that we did not have in our 2 and 1 half pages of rules 813 00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:47,040 that we had before. 814 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,600 But those rules were running fine for many, many years 815 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,000 in IPSC Paralympic. 816 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,520 So when it started 2011, there were several modifications. 817 00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,040 But the biggest step now was definitely 818 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,720 when we introduced the IPSC-based classification 819 00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:04,720 system and their rules. 820 00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:09,480 And actually, it sounds a bit weird maybe, 821 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,960 but COVID helped us here. 822 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:13,960 Because we had one year without competitions. 823 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,680 And in this year, we had the time 824 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,200 to prepare and silence it without having 825 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:25,120 the rush of the running season to implement the new rules. 826 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,000 Think about our sports specific classification system, 827 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:33,120 because each par sport has his own set of individual rules 828 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,240 for the sport. 829 00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:39,040 And someone had to invent it. 830 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:43,360 And the commission and an expert show greetings 831 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,080 to Sean Spencer, physio from Australia, 832 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,400 who was our pioneer just writing on a blank sheet of paper 833 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,320 the first lines on how this new classification system 834 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,080 for climbing should look like. 835 00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,320 And since then, it was introduced in 21. 836 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,400 It was revised every year. 837 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:07,400 And if I look back and see the kind of modifications 838 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,520 that were done over the years, I would say the first draft 839 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,960 or the first version was already really, really good, 840 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,320 just coming from a blank paper. 841 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,560 And this is the hardest step. 842 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,560 And it's good to know that it's done now 843 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:29,840 and that we can just improve existing rules and work 844 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,840 on that instead of being challenged 845 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,600 with inventing something completely from you again. 846 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:41,240 So if we were only given one medal for the Paralympics, 847 00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:44,440 what do you think would be the most likely sport 848 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,240 class to go in? 849 00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:48,600 I don't know. 850 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,320 And I don't think that I'm in a position 851 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,280 to make guesstimations here. 852 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,400 But I can tell you the criteria that the IPC 853 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:04,400 is requesting this sport to fulfill. 854 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:09,960 So you need to show that you have gender equality. 855 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,680 So that means we have to have a sport class which has, 856 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,200 for example, not just men and no women, 857 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,400 but we still have that in one case. 858 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,120 Sadly, this is the AL1 sport class. 859 00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,520 This is the leg amputee or, let's say, 860 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,760 loss of control and muscle power and neurological control 861 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,400 in both legs. 862 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,240 So those who are sitting in the wheelchair 863 00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:37,440 and can't pressing everything, there we have, 864 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,560 over the past years, we developed a stable sport 865 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,960 class on the men's side, which is competing on their own 866 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,080 in each competition, but none on the women's side. 867 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,320 So for example, then it can tell you 868 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:55,560 this sport class would then not fulfill this gender equality 869 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,200 criteria. 870 00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:10,880 Then you need to show a robust and precise classification 871 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:12,120 process for that sport. 872 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:17,400 So a sport class has to be well-defined and have, 873 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:22,360 let's say, a proper setup. 874 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:27,760 And there it starts with being a bit vague on, in my opinion, 875 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:33,920 to say what the IPC might mean with that. 876 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:39,480 And to be honest, I don't have too much insight 877 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,480 and comparison in between other power sports 878 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,520 and see what's a good setup in this case 879 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:50,200 and which one is a setup where you think it could be optimized. 880 00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,680 I just don't know that. 881 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,720 And then the IPC is also in favor 882 00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:58,360 of more severe sport classes. 883 00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:03,760 So that's something they support. 884 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:08,320 And in general, I think that means 885 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,040 what they just want is a good show. 886 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,760 Yeah. 887 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,840 I mean, I guess that makes sense, yeah. 888 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,840 A decision will be made in 25, for sure. 889 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:22,360 And it will be for this edition of the Games Only. 890 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,520 I hope that also those sport classes who will not 891 00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,680 be Paralympic will keep their spirit, 892 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:32,120 because this will have no effect on the IPC format 893 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,840 that we have inside our World Cup and World Championship 894 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:35,640 Series. 895 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,480 That will all stay the same and not be affected by that. 896 00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:45,080 So we're not going to bend the sport for the Olympic setup in 28. 897 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,120 So it will remain the way it is. 898 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,160 And we're going to work on that. 899 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,320 And the Olympics is just one addition 900 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,560 on top of that, the existing thing. 901 00:47:55,560 --> 00:48:02,960 But it's not going to feed back on the current format we have. 902 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,320 And I hope also National Federations will support 903 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,800 and keep sending those athletes who are not 904 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,720 in a Paralympic sport class. 905 00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:17,120 And because we need this variety and we need also 906 00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,960 these sport classes to grow. 907 00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:24,240 Because we need to show that we have the numbers, 908 00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:26,160 and that's also basically a requirement, 909 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,160 we need to show the numbers over the years 910 00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,440 and the sport classes we want to propose 911 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,560 for potential future inclusion. 912 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,120 So if you, for example, would say, OK, let's just 913 00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,080 say we get two medals in 28. 914 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,600 And everyone focuses just on those two sport classes 915 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,760 and just forgets on one of the eight, 916 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,360 I think we will lose a big part of the sport. 917 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:53,840 And this will be a huge mistake and would automatically 918 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,280 take away the chance from growing any further. 919 00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,240 Because we need every sport class that we have. 920 00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:01,080 And we need the numbers. 921 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,120 And even if it's just a single competitor 922 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:04,720 from a single country who is there 923 00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:09,400 all over the consistently competing in all the years, 924 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:10,840 that's super important. 925 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,520 Because there's also one criteria 926 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,200 where you have to show that you have got a global reach 927 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,760 and relevancy with your sport. 928 00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:23,960 So the athlete wants to see 32 competing countries 929 00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:25,920 on a regular basis. 930 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,640 And it's also one of those criteria's 931 00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,560 from the big list of the handbook. 932 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:36,480 And even more, to have a Paralympic sport class, 933 00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:44,840 you need to show that you have got at least 10 athletes 934 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:49,160 from four different countries in both genders 935 00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,360 over the whole period of statistics 936 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,320 you send for the application. 937 00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:58,080 OK, yeah, we'll see what comes of that in 2025, I guess. 938 00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:04,320 Moving on to your experience being athlete representative 939 00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,880 and being chairman of the Paraclimbing Commission, 940 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,480 what do you feel like are some of the biggest issues you've 941 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:12,760 tackled so far doing that? 942 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,080 And what are some issues you're still working on 943 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:16,320 within Paraclimbing? 944 00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,800 You had a transition from just being an athlete 945 00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,800 to being a representative. 946 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,840 And suddenly, being in a position 947 00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,000 in between the athletes and the IFSC, 948 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,280 sitting in between all of those chairs, 949 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,280 so to say, was really challenging in the beginning 950 00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:41,120 for me because I had no one to ask or to get experience from. 951 00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:42,480 I tried to. 952 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,360 I tried to reach out to the Able Body Athlete Commission, 953 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:49,000 but I failed in the beginning. 954 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,680 In the meantime, I have the contacts. 955 00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,560 And no, I don't have the questions anymore. 956 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:56,880 Gotcha. 957 00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:58,640 Yeah. 958 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,640 But at the time, I would have needed some help. 959 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:03,480 It was out there. 960 00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:09,320 So that was a very tough time in the beginning 961 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:14,080 because I didn't know what I did not know. 962 00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:18,520 And there's no handbook on this is how the IFSC works, 963 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:23,200 and this is how things go in the sport behind the field of play, 964 00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:24,680 behind the scenes. 965 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:30,240 And you have to just go there and get as much 966 00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:32,800 as you can get in that moment and then 967 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,280 puzzle together your picture on where you are, 968 00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,040 what your possibilities are, and to learn how things go. 969 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,960 And the first thing I learned was that, yes, 970 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:48,280 as an athlete, as an individual sportsman or woman, 971 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:49,520 you have your mission. 972 00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,720 You have your view on things. 973 00:51:51,720 --> 00:51:56,280 But not necessarily does that mean that there's 974 00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,600 other perspectives and opinions, for example, 975 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,760 from an event organizer, from the IFSC, 976 00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:04,040 from the national federations. 977 00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:05,320 And they can all be different. 978 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,320 And they all have good reasons for their position. 979 00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,440 But when you're just an athlete, you don't know that. 980 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,400 You don't know the reasons. 981 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,040 You don't know why things are the way they are. 982 00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:21,200 And I was then in a role also to explain things 983 00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:25,880 towards athletes and say, look, not someone just 984 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,280 didn't get something or missed something. 985 00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,520 That might have happened, sure. 986 00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:32,760 But for many things, there's reasons 987 00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:34,400 why things are the way they are. 988 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,400 And they are not safe, self-explanatory. 989 00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,400 And then it's up to the athlete representative 990 00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:43,040 to just explain those things and tries 991 00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:49,080 to put some more explanation into things, 992 00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:52,200 explain rules, explain changes. 993 00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,840 And it was a tough time, especially 994 00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,960 during all those rule changes, which for sure 995 00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:02,760 produced lots of tears and drama. 996 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:07,680 Because, for example, the IPC-based classification 997 00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,400 system introduced some things that were not existing before. 998 00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:13,520 So from that moment on, the IPC has 999 00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:15,280 a different of eligible impairments 1000 00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:16,960 that are allowed to compete. 1001 00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,720 And also a list of non-eligible impairments. 1002 00:53:19,720 --> 00:53:23,000 You can read it at the end of our classification rules. 1003 00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,200 They are in the resources on the IFSC page. 1004 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,880 So if someone's interested to read all of that, 1005 00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:28,720 take a look in there. 1006 00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:29,640 Oh, I don't like it. 1007 00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:36,640 And it's an interesting read, in my opinion. 1008 00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,760 And my recommendation to all the athletes 1009 00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,040 is also to take a look in there. 1010 00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,440 And you will get a deeper understanding. 1011 00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,240 Because being a parathetic does not just 1012 00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:51,720 mean you have to play well on the field of play. 1013 00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:54,560 You also need to know the rules. 1014 00:53:54,560 --> 00:54:00,400 And it's not enough to just say, yeah, my coach knows 1015 00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,120 how it goes and he has to instruct me. 1016 00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:04,760 No. 1017 00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:06,760 You have to know on your own, and especially 1018 00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:12,000 in the very beginning, when you get your first classification, 1019 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:16,440 when you're approaching that, it's a very important task 1020 00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,560 that you should prepare well. 1021 00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,440 And it starts way earlier than just, 1022 00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,800 I'm traveling to a competition and I'm seeing all paraclimbing 1023 00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:28,440 classifiers and I get the evaluation session 1024 00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,520 and they assign me a sport class and then I go to qualification. 1025 00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:32,880 No, it starts way earlier. 1026 00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,000 And that needs to be well prepared. 1027 00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,160 And those are things that were really 1028 00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,320 changing with the new system. 1029 00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:44,760 And also one thing which I think got most of the controversy 1030 00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,040 and tears and drama was the introduction of minimum 1031 00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,160 impairment criteria. 1032 00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,440 So that means there's a minimum level of impairment 1033 00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,400 defined for each sport class that you 1034 00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,880 have to fulfill to be eligible for competing. 1035 00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,480 Well, was that not there before? 1036 00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,040 It wasn't there before. 1037 00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,000 It was just a very vague definition. 1038 00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,520 But in some cases, it was there. 1039 00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,440 For example, in the visual impaired sport classes 1040 00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:16,160 or in I think the AL2 sport class also had a definition. 1041 00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,120 But for example, the RP sport classes, 1042 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:22,480 so those who have limited range, power, stability, 1043 00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,920 so those with neurological and physiological impairments, 1044 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,440 there was no real minimum impairment criteria defined 1045 00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,920 and also not really defined how it is assessed, et cetera. 1046 00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,600 And all of that is now defined. 1047 00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:41,320 And by having no limit there or minimum criteria 1048 00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,320 and by introducing one, there were 1049 00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,640 athletes who were competing before but then being excluded 1050 00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:48,840 and being not eligible anymore. 1051 00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:50,960 And those were even more than 10% 1052 00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:54,760 that we just lost with just introducing a new system. 1053 00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,080 And for sure, that got a lot of discussions, a lot of tears, 1054 00:55:58,080 --> 00:55:58,960 a lot of drama. 1055 00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,800 And it still happens that in these days 1056 00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,360 that people are coming to competitions 1057 00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:05,800 and then find out that they are not 1058 00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,440 eligible for the sport for whatever reason. 1059 00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:15,480 There might be many reasons, but it's not many cases. 1060 00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,600 And there is also a system which tries 1061 00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:22,880 to detect those people so that no one is traveling 1062 00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:27,720 halfway around the world to say that he's not 1063 00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:30,800 eligible to compete of what we want. 1064 00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,520 So that's why everyone has to also to submit 1065 00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,400 their medical documentation beforehand. 1066 00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,440 And that's why I say it's very important 1067 00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,280 that athletes understand it and their classification process 1068 00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:49,960 starts when they print out this form they need to fill out 1069 00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,480 by their medical doctor, which is then submitted to the IFSC. 1070 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,760 And it's checked when they apply. 1071 00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,440 And if there are any questions, they're 1072 00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,720 getting back to the athletes and maybe warning people 1073 00:56:59,720 --> 00:57:02,560 and say, hey, you might be a borderline case. 1074 00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:03,200 Look on that. 1075 00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,440 Or we need additional documentation here. 1076 00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:10,280 So that's a way more robust and really way more professional 1077 00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:14,400 system we have now in comparison to what was there before. 1078 00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:19,200 So did these changes just take effect this year? 1079 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:20,280 No. 1080 00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:26,080 This was introduced in 21 when the first version 1081 00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,600 of the IPC-based classification system 1082 00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,560 was introduced by the IFSC. 1083 00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:36,920 At this competition, it was in Sprook in 2021, 1084 00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,560 where all the athletes have to undergo classification again, 1085 00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:45,800 everyone, because no one had a valid classification. 1086 00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,600 No one had a valid sports class classification anymore. 1087 00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:52,680 So everyone had to go through the process again. 1088 00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:54,680 That's what we did. 1089 00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:59,560 And that's where the completely new field was set up. 1090 00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,080 And also, as not everyone was traveling 1091 00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:05,800 to this competition, there were, let's say, 1092 00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:11,160 also big classification sessions after this first competition. 1093 00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:13,680 And also, there are many possible outcomes 1094 00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:15,320 of a classification process. 1095 00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:19,760 Sometimes it's not just that you get a sport class, which 1096 00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:21,880 means, for example, like B1. 1097 00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,320 So that's the most severe visually impaired sport class. 1098 00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:27,160 You also get a sport class status, 1099 00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:31,720 which indicates how secure your classification, sport 1100 00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:33,080 class is. 1101 00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:38,000 So that means some, for example, have a confirmed status. 1102 00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:39,520 So I, for example, have one that's 1103 00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:42,160 where the medical experts say, OK, this 1104 00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:43,880 is a super stable condition. 1105 00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:45,920 It's not going to change. 1106 00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,240 It would stay the way it is, and that's it. 1107 00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,840 So then you get a confirmed status. 1108 00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,120 If, for example, your condition is subject to change, 1109 00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:58,520 for example, it's a progressing disease in whatever direction, 1110 00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:02,640 might improve or make it worse, whatever, 1111 00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:07,520 the classifiers might give you a fixed review date. 1112 00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:11,360 So that means, for example, they give you a fixed review date, 1113 00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:13,600 26, for example. 1114 00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:17,720 That means at the first occasion or before you 1115 00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:21,000 have the first competition in this year, 1116 00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,320 you have to undergo classification, 1117 00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:26,280 the classification process again from you again. 1118 00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:30,640 And also, you can have a review status, which means, 1119 00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:35,520 and you have to undergo classification again 1120 00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,280 at the next possible occasion. 1121 00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:43,880 And for example, if, so it's complex. 1122 00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:47,120 And I'm just describing some scenarios here. 1123 00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:49,320 There are even more possible outcomes, 1124 00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:52,960 but those are roughly the scenarios that exist. 1125 00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:57,520 And this status, by the way, either it's 1126 00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:58,720 so at different stages. 1127 00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:00,000 First, you submit the documents. 1128 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:01,320 Documents are checked. 1129 01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,000 Then you travel to a competition. 1130 01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,520 Before the competition, there's the so-called evaluation 1131 01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:09,040 session where you see for the first time the medical experts, 1132 01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:13,080 the sport classifiers from our power sports or power climbing 1133 01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,840 classifiers. 1134 01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:20,280 They assess the athlete then and see the documentation, 1135 01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:21,800 see the athletes there. 1136 01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:25,080 They do specific tests based on their impairment. 1137 01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:26,760 So it's also described in the rule books 1138 01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,800 which tests they're going to run through. 1139 01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,920 And from those tests, you get a score and score that says, 1140 01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,160 OK, this is your sport class. 1141 01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:39,320 And after that, we start with the quantification session. 1142 01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,640 And in the quantification session, the, so maybe, 1143 01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:44,720 oh, sorry, forgot one thing. 1144 01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:50,040 In some cases, the classifiers may say, OK, we did now 1145 01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:54,040 hear our tests here on a test bench and our examination room. 1146 01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,080 But we want to see on the wall and do a so-called sport 1147 01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:58,400 specific test. 1148 01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,040 So for example, they say, like, OK, here's a ball of the wall 1149 01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:03,240 or here's a small top rope. 1150 01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:04,840 And you climb there. 1151 01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:06,520 And we let you do some moves. 1152 01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:08,840 They want to see the impairment in action. 1153 01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:14,400 So the classifiers can request that. 1154 01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,600 And after all of this assessment part, 1155 01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:24,040 they give the athlete a sport class 1156 01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:26,800 and sometimes also already sport class status. 1157 01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,040 But all of that is subject to observation 1158 01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:31,760 in the qualification session. 1159 01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:34,640 So our classifiers are watching the comp, 1160 01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:36,480 the qualification session, and then 1161 01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,800 see if the sport activity level on the wall 1162 01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,040 matches that what they assessed before in the evaluation 1163 01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:45,000 session. 1164 01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:46,800 And if, for example, I would pretend like, 1165 01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:50,640 oh, I don't get my arm further up than this 1166 01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:53,160 in the evaluation session on the bench test, 1167 01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,680 and then suddenly in competition, I'm like, 1168 01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:58,000 this up here. 1169 01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,880 And then for sure, our classifiers 1170 01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:03,400 might have some question. 1171 01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:04,240 OK, gotcha. 1172 01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:05,240 What happens? 1173 01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:06,240 Yeah. 1174 01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:09,080 That happens. 1175 01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:13,320 And that has, I would say, it can also 1176 01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:17,080 be like an impairment shows in a completely different way 1177 01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:19,040 than it was expected for. 1178 01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:20,240 Maybe it's a rare case. 1179 01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,280 No one has ever seen it before. 1180 01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,520 The classifiers have to discuss it again, for example. 1181 01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:29,520 And there can even be drastic decisions 1182 01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:31,080 at that time being taken. 1183 01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:36,040 So for example, the most severe action they can take 1184 01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:41,720 is to give someone the CNC sport class, that's 1185 01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:43,400 classification not completed. 1186 01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:50,400 So that means this person may not compete anymore. 1187 01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:52,440 So in this case means that your climbing 1188 01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:57,200 is over after the qualification, and you are not 1189 01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,240 allowed to climb in finals. 1190 01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:02,160 And in this case, this person has 1191 01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:06,360 to undergo the next possible occasion for classification 1192 01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:08,080 in order to compete again. 1193 01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:12,360 And in very severe cases, the classifiers 1194 01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:17,080 can also raise the case of intentional misrepresentation, 1195 01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:19,120 also known as cheating. 1196 01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:23,200 And if that's proven, it can lead up 1197 01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:26,560 to a ban from the sport for many years. 1198 01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:32,560 And I think we did not have any proven cases in climbing yet, 1199 01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:36,840 because if our classifiers are really like, 1200 01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,880 they know how to intervene and to say something in a way 1201 01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:45,320 like they don't have to bring all those super drastic measures 1202 01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:47,600 and to handle it in a good way. 1203 01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:52,960 But in other sports, this seems to be more of a topic 1204 01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:54,120 in other power sports. 1205 01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:54,880 Oh, really? 1206 01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:55,520 Yeah. 1207 01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:57,640 I would say to make this even complete, 1208 01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:02,720 there's also a case of protest and appeal 1209 01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:05,520 can also be raised against decisions. 1210 01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:08,400 But this very clearly defined on who may 1211 01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:12,000 protest against which decision. 1212 01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:13,160 And it's very complex. 1213 01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:16,440 It's a complete own section in the rule book. 1214 01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,480 But so if you're interested, read that. 1215 01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:22,800 And there can be very different reasons 1216 01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:26,400 why something happens in a power sport because 1217 01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:28,760 of classification rules. 1218 01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:32,600 And yeah, that's challenging sometimes 1219 01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:39,600 to explain to athletes and also as our classifiers have 1220 01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:46,360 to, yeah, there's strict confidentiality on those data 1221 01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:47,960 and those things. 1222 01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,120 So you would never be allowed, for example, 1223 01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:52,880 to accompany an athlete with a camera team 1224 01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,040 into a classification session. 1225 01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:57,520 That will never happen. 1226 01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:02,960 And so they will also never give a statement in public 1227 01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:06,520 on why a decision was made this way. 1228 01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:11,000 It's a strict confidentiality there. 1229 01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:14,240 But there are rules which are there for. 1230 01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:17,880 And there are also always ways on how to protest and appeal 1231 01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:19,400 against decisions. 1232 01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:25,040 So I guess the classification process kind of reminds me 1233 01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:27,320 of what you were talking about earlier when you were saying 1234 01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:30,840 that you have a big issue, and then you go to the doctor, 1235 01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:32,120 and you have to wait, and it just 1236 01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:33,760 happens to be better that day. 1237 01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:38,720 I guess what happens if you get classified 1238 01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:43,720 and then you climb in qualifiers and you just that day 1239 01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:48,840 happen to be kind of doing better or your impairment 1240 01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:49,560 is not as good? 1241 01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:50,560 Yeah. 1242 01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,320 You had a bad day in classification, 1243 01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:54,760 and next day you had a good day in qualification. 1244 01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:55,920 Yeah. 1245 01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:56,760 Yeah. 1246 01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:58,920 That can happen. 1247 01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:02,240 There are many impairments which are fluctuating, 1248 01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:05,840 or some are even, for example, temperature dependent. 1249 01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:11,000 There are impairments who depend on stress, for example. 1250 01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:15,400 And it's not an easy job for a classifier 1251 01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:23,560 to make this differentiation on what is impairment, what 1252 01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:28,480 is training, and what is, for example, 1253 01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:32,760 an aspect of the form of that day. 1254 01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:38,080 And our classifiers are experienced in climbing. 1255 01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:40,240 And some of our classifiers are also climbing 1256 01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:41,560 on a really, really high level. 1257 01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:46,760 So we have classifiers who climb up to 8A, 8B. 1258 01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:50,440 And sometimes they also test our routes, by the way, 1259 01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,420 if there is occasion for that. 1260 01:06:52,420 --> 01:06:55,440 And mostly that I really like that. 1261 01:06:55,440 --> 01:07:00,680 So maybe you get the chance to get also a classifier 1262 01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:02,600 on your podcast, because you already have 1263 01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:04,720 your route typed out. 1264 01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:09,520 So why not also classifier here and giving deeper insight 1265 01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:10,040 into that? 1266 01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:13,400 Because I'm no medical expert on that. 1267 01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:15,360 I can just explain from my experience 1268 01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,720 and what I saw in the sport and what I know from the rules. 1269 01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:21,720 But that's not the full picture, for sure. 1270 01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:26,080 And so this question you asked to me would be, 1271 01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:29,280 I would love to hear the answers from a classifier there. 1272 01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:33,540 And I know that when they watch athletes in the competition, 1273 01:07:33,540 --> 01:07:36,200 they discuss after qualification. 1274 01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,840 And this can take a long time. 1275 01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:42,320 So we know from everybody qualifications, 1276 01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:45,080 once they've climbed, that's the result list. 1277 01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:49,480 Then you have got this period where a protest can be raised. 1278 01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:51,480 And then after that period is over, 1279 01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:53,160 this is the final competition results. 1280 01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,040 You have the group which moves on to the next round. 1281 01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:56,840 That's it. 1282 01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:57,520 Closed. 1283 01:07:57,520 --> 01:07:58,520 It's closed. 1284 01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:00,840 And para climbing, this is not the case. 1285 01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:04,880 It can happen that the last climber is on the wall. 1286 01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:06,680 We are coming down. 1287 01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:08,600 There's the list of rankings. 1288 01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:10,600 And then the classifiers start their discussion 1289 01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:12,920 round on their observations. 1290 01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:15,120 And that can take a long time. 1291 01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:20,440 So maybe you go back to your hotel on the qualification day 1292 01:08:20,440 --> 01:08:24,400 and you still don't have the final list of results. 1293 01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:28,760 It can sometimes take hours before you 1294 01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:31,600 know the final sport class and sport class 1295 01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:33,280 status for each athlete. 1296 01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:38,200 And following that, also, where all class athletes 1297 01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:42,920 who were observed, are they still in the game? 1298 01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:46,320 And will they move to the next round or not? 1299 01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:49,760 And I mean, it doesn't happen that often 1300 01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:51,120 that we see big differences. 1301 01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:53,680 But here and there, there are people 1302 01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:57,880 who are, there are changes after qualifications. 1303 01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:02,160 So you just have to know that this 1304 01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:05,680 is the big difference in between everybody and para 1305 01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:08,600 in terms on how qualification works. 1306 01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:10,400 The qualification day works. 1307 01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:13,280 OK, I'll try to get a classifier on then. 1308 01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:16,120 Thank you for the explanation of classification. 1309 01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:17,880 It's a complicated process. 1310 01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:21,040 So I'm glad that we can get a little bit more information 1311 01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,160 out there about it. 1312 01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:28,720 But yeah, moving on to, I guess, more of your personal life 1313 01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:31,920 or non-competition life. 1314 01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:35,720 Certainly, a lot of athletes don't make much money 1315 01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:39,160 from climbing anyway, and unfortunately, even less 1316 01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:41,360 so in para climbing. 1317 01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:45,440 So I guess, what do you do for work? 1318 01:09:45,440 --> 01:09:48,560 So yeah, we have a few full-time athletes 1319 01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:52,840 in the para climbing community in the meantime. 1320 01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:56,680 And I hope that they are getting more and more. 1321 01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:02,320 With the focus and the exposure that we 1322 01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:05,040 get through the Paralympics 28, this will, 1323 01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:07,160 chances were increased. 1324 01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:11,080 Now is the moment for people to start. 1325 01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:17,600 And yeah, and some of you might also know my private projects, 1326 01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:21,280 the Solar Bike Project, where I built my own vehicle 1327 01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:24,200 that I used to get to the competitions this year. 1328 01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:29,600 And yeah, I have a very well-balanced sponsor 1329 01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,240 systems of my credit card, my other credit card, 1330 01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:35,040 my paypal account, and my bank account. 1331 01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,240 And I realized this year that it's not 1332 01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:39,560 as balanced as I thought. 1333 01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:41,920 OK. 1334 01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:43,960 Well, getting back to your question, yes, I've 1335 01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:47,840 got a job as freelance IT guy. 1336 01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:52,920 I'm doing server administration, website, e-commerce systems. 1337 01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:55,640 That's what my job looks like. 1338 01:10:55,640 --> 01:11:05,080 And the climbing part is free time. 1339 01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:11,960 But I'm in a situation that I can decide quite flexible 1340 01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:15,000 on my free time projects. 1341 01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:18,680 And as I said in the beginning, with my condition, 1342 01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:19,800 I'm closing spondylitis. 1343 01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:23,600 It's very important that I keep my flexibility, 1344 01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:27,480 that I keep my level of activity. 1345 01:11:27,480 --> 01:11:30,400 So even if I want or not, I have to live 1346 01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:32,760 a very active, athletic life. 1347 01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:38,000 So even if I would not be paragliding one day anymore, 1348 01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:42,240 on IFSC level, I will 100% continue climbing 1349 01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:43,640 and do some other things. 1350 01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:47,320 And I will always continue on some other projects. 1351 01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:50,240 So I will not focus, for example, just on climbing. 1352 01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,960 I would always go scuba diving. 1353 01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:57,360 And if I now I discovered hand cycling for me, 1354 01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:00,240 and I'm also doing other things, and I 1355 01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:03,520 will continue that also because I know it's very important 1356 01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:07,680 for my whole body to keep things balanced 1357 01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,000 and not to focus too hard on one thing. 1358 01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:14,280 If I just would, let's say, just focus on climbing, 1359 01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:17,440 I would maybe get a bit better. 1360 01:12:17,440 --> 01:12:22,880 But after that, it would go down because I would, so to say, 1361 01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:24,320 lose a bit. 1362 01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:28,680 It would be too specific in one direction, 1363 01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:30,280 the whole training, et cetera. 1364 01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:35,080 And I already feel it now as I've never hand 1365 01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:36,840 cycled that much before. 1366 01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:39,360 I now feel how my body changes. 1367 01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:41,680 And my body reacts quite hard on changes. 1368 01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:45,720 For example, I then start to get more muscle 1369 01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:47,800 tonus in my shoulders, on my neck. 1370 01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:50,800 And that will then lead to more pain there. 1371 01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:52,760 And my body has to adapt slowly to that. 1372 01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,760 So I should never train too much just on one thing 1373 01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:59,680 because it will always have bad consequences for me. 1374 01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:03,560 So I have to do some things, see how my body adapts, 1375 01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:06,280 give him also some time, readjust a bit, 1376 01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:10,480 and be quite careful with the level of intensity 1377 01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:11,800 that I put on it. 1378 01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:14,360 Going back to the solar hand bike, 1379 01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:18,160 I figured that that is a very time-consuming project. 1380 01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:21,360 And maybe you would have some kind of engineering background 1381 01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:23,120 to work on it. 1382 01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:27,800 How did you get the idea to work on this project? 1383 01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:30,880 Since I was a kid, I was always playing around 1384 01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:35,600 and with scale models, et cetera. 1385 01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:41,760 That was my background, like cars and trains, et cetera. 1386 01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:43,720 When I was a kid and I was learning 1387 01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:48,400 how to solder cables, et cetera, and electricity and things, 1388 01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:50,920 I always had a fascination for that. 1389 01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,600 And I actually never lost that. 1390 01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:55,960 So I always had projects. 1391 01:13:55,960 --> 01:14:01,280 Since I was in school, I, for example, developed in school, 1392 01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:06,760 I developed a system that scale model cars, which 1393 01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:08,880 were driving independently, recognized each other 1394 01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:12,600 and reacted and adapted their speeds together, et cetera, 1395 01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:18,080 and even went to science competitions with that, 1396 01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:22,520 where kids could participate and even got to the highest 1397 01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:24,800 level you can get in Germany with that. 1398 01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:30,200 And also, when I was studying, I always 1399 01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:35,600 had a little corner in my room where I had some things to like, 1400 01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:37,520 had to just work on things. 1401 01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:41,840 And I was always having projects, sometimes more, 1402 01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:42,520 sometimes less. 1403 01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:46,920 And when I moved to Spain, I had the vision 1404 01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:52,320 of building something on my own to combine 1405 01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:56,480 the power of solar, electric, with the things 1406 01:14:56,480 --> 01:14:58,680 that I have to get a vehicle where I can get 1407 01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:06,240 the maximum distance with things that are accessible for me. 1408 01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:08,160 And so it turned out that I ended 1409 01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:12,960 with something like, which was based on e-bike technology, 1410 01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,960 so assisted electric aid. 1411 01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:20,240 And I combined that with solar to get the maximum distance 1412 01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:22,280 and maximum independence. 1413 01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:27,320 And I started this project actually, 1414 01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:30,240 now it's even more than one and a half years ago. 1415 01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:34,560 And I was working for it for many, many months in silence 1416 01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:38,160 behind closed doors and told no one about it. 1417 01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:40,640 And just very shortly before Innsbruck, 1418 01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:44,440 I made it public that I'm going to go with it to Innsbruck, 1419 01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:46,280 1,000 kilometers. 1420 01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:50,640 I had the vision long, long time before in my mind, 1421 01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:54,360 but I was working hard on it to get there. 1422 01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:57,080 And there was moments where I was pretty sure, 1423 01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:59,000 oh, this is not going to work out. 1424 01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:02,760 And in the beginning, I was just, I mean, it's a prototype. 1425 01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:05,800 I had no instructions and no things 1426 01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:06,800 I could copy paste from. 1427 01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:08,440 I just had an idea in my mind. 1428 01:16:08,440 --> 01:16:11,560 I had all my little toy engineering, 1429 01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:18,040 playing background from my childhood, many as a child. 1430 01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:20,600 And it's like, actually, I'm still doing the same, 1431 01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:22,240 but just the scale change. 1432 01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:26,160 Now I just, I don't let cars, little cars or trains, 1433 01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:27,400 whatever drive around. 1434 01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:30,840 Now I'm just sitting in my vehicles that I built 1435 01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:33,960 and I'm driving with them. 1436 01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:37,040 So I'm still doing the same, but just the scale and distance 1437 01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:38,480 has changed. 1438 01:16:38,480 --> 01:16:42,360 And I tested a lot on my Yorker here. 1439 01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:46,160 So I did the round around the island twice. 1440 01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:50,520 The short version was like 250 kilometers in two days. 1441 01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:53,280 And the long one was then three days for 400 kilometers 1442 01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:56,080 with a lot of mountains in between. 1443 01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:58,880 So it was, I think, 4,000 meters of altitude 1444 01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:02,720 to climb, 5,000 to the ground. 1445 01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:06,800 And the road to Innsbruck then was 1,000 kilometers. 1446 01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:10,600 And I think at the end, it was more than 12,000 meters 1447 01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:13,400 of altitude to climb up with a bike, 1448 01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:15,880 because I had to cross the Alps. 1449 01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:20,160 And yes, yeah, Innsbruck is in the middle of the mountains. 1450 01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:22,000 If you see around the beautiful scenery 1451 01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:25,200 around the credit center, you see the alpine background 1452 01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:26,440 around there. 1453 01:17:26,440 --> 01:17:27,960 Those were basically the mountains 1454 01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:31,920 I had to cycle over with my own bike. 1455 01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:34,960 There's not a river going all the way from Spain to Innsbruck. 1456 01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:36,840 I could just follow. 1457 01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:38,400 No, no, no. 1458 01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:43,320 And I just announced it. 1459 01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:44,880 Actually, it was officially announced 1460 01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:47,200 in the livestream of Salt Lake. 1461 01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:48,240 And it was not planned. 1462 01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:51,880 I just told Matt about the crazy idea. 1463 01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:55,320 And I said, I think I'm going to make it public then soon. 1464 01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:58,960 And he just decided to talk about it, 1465 01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:02,360 to tell in public about it in the livestream. 1466 01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:08,680 It was in May, it was in early May, it was early May, 2024, 1467 01:18:08,680 --> 01:18:09,800 exactly. 1468 01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:11,960 And then I stayed even longer in the US. 1469 01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:13,080 I came back from the US. 1470 01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:16,400 And I just had two weeks in Spain to get the bike ready 1471 01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:17,840 and to depart for Innsbruck. 1472 01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:20,720 Yeah, I mean, you had to, because he 1473 01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:23,560 mentioned it on the livestream. 1474 01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:24,800 No, I also wanted to. 1475 01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:26,920 The ferry was already booked, et cetera. 1476 01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:29,240 So I'm sure if something would have gone wrong. 1477 01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:31,520 And a lot of things went wrong along the way. 1478 01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:33,280 Don't get me wrong, there was a big chance 1479 01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:35,800 that I wouldn't make it. 1480 01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:36,520 But I did it. 1481 01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:40,080 I had a broken spoke in the front wheel. 1482 01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:42,760 And it was seriously deforming. 1483 01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:45,240 And I couldn't get it fixed on the way. 1484 01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:48,640 I tried to add lots of technical issues on the way. 1485 01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:50,960 But I had a big toolbox with me. 1486 01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:55,600 And I could fix everything along the way that I made it there. 1487 01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:59,080 And at the end, it took me seven days to Innsbruck 1488 01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:00,360 for 1,000 kilometers. 1489 01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:01,400 Not bad. 1490 01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:06,560 Now, it's an average of 150 kilometers per day. 1491 01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:09,400 But the longest day was even, say, far more. 1492 01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:14,120 It was like 212 kilometers on a single day. 1493 01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:18,120 And it was the last day, just following a river in downhill. 1494 01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:20,720 What was the nicest part? 1495 01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:21,840 The nicest part? 1496 01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:23,520 Yeah. 1497 01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:29,040 Oh, there were so many moments. 1498 01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:33,080 But one, I think, was the first highlight 1499 01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:38,640 was for me to be in Briehnsan with the bike. 1500 01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:43,200 So the place where I had my first World Cup ever in 2017. 1501 01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:45,600 And I was many times in Briehnsan by car 1502 01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:48,120 before for the World Cups there. 1503 01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:50,680 And then when I was there, I crossed the village 1504 01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:51,680 in the very morning. 1505 01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:57,320 I even just literally stopped by at the new competition wall. 1506 01:19:57,320 --> 01:19:59,480 And that was at 6 in the morning, 1507 01:19:59,480 --> 01:20:03,480 because then I went over the Maloja Pass over to Italy. 1508 01:20:03,480 --> 01:20:06,840 And that's a very steep road where you have to climb. 1509 01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:11,600 And it's the only road which exists in between France 1510 01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:13,920 and Italy in that part of the Alps. 1511 01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:16,200 And so there's normally heavy traffic. 1512 01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:19,960 And very often, I tried to avoid heavy traffic 1513 01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:25,840 by going in early hours, which was a really, really good plan. 1514 01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:30,120 And at that day, I even went further to Turin, 1515 01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:32,600 and I stopped by the IFSC office. 1516 01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:37,240 And that was just I had different versions of routes 1517 01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:37,880 I want to go. 1518 01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:40,120 And then I decided, OK, I'm going to take the middle route, 1519 01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:42,040 not following the Mediterranean Sea, 1520 01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:46,280 and not going through too much through Switzerland. 1521 01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:51,600 So I decided to take the middle way right through France, 1522 01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:52,200 then Italy. 1523 01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:54,800 And so I said, like, just as a joke, like, hey, 1524 01:20:54,800 --> 01:20:56,560 if I'm in Turin, for sure I'm going 1525 01:20:56,560 --> 01:21:01,000 to stop by at the IFSC office and say hello. 1526 01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:04,760 And it's like, I mean, if Marco Scolaris is there, 1527 01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:08,080 he can take a look at the bike and make a picture or whatever 1528 01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:09,400 if he wants to. 1529 01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:12,040 And at that time, I didn't even know, will he be there, 1530 01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:13,280 or will the others be there? 1531 01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:16,640 And is he actually interested in the project or not? 1532 01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:19,280 I mean, it's cycling. 1533 01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:21,560 It's not climbing, right? 1534 01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:23,280 At the end, it turned out the IFSC 1535 01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:28,200 shared all of my stories for like nine days, I think. 1536 01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:31,040 And I was really wondering, like, guys, are you serious? 1537 01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:33,440 Because it's like, this is cycling content. 1538 01:21:33,440 --> 01:21:35,280 Yes, I'm going to climbing contitution, 1539 01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:37,440 but this is not climbing, right? 1540 01:21:37,440 --> 01:21:39,280 It's a different sport. 1541 01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:40,560 And it was not them to do it. 1542 01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:43,200 They just decided, like, hey, we're going to capture it. 1543 01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:47,040 And yeah, and Marco Scolaris even wanted to ride the bike. 1544 01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:48,240 So he was not there. 1545 01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:50,120 He was there, and he's like, I can also drive. 1546 01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:56,160 And then he was driving on the sidewalk for 20 meters. 1547 01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:58,720 That was a really unexpected highlight. 1548 01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:02,480 And then one of the biggest challenges, 1549 01:22:02,480 --> 01:22:06,400 and I think it was a day I will never forget, 1550 01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:09,880 because it was the day where the press release was published 1551 01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:14,600 that LA 28 decided to include power 1552 01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:16,680 climbing for the Paralympics. 1553 01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:20,280 And that was the day where I was driving up the Maloja Pass 1554 01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:24,720 from Italy to Switzerland, which means you have to climb up 1555 01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:28,480 1,600 meters of altitude. 1556 01:22:28,480 --> 01:22:33,440 You start at 200 meters above sea level, 1557 01:22:33,440 --> 01:22:35,240 and it's like 30 degrees. 1558 01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:38,240 And then you go up over 40 kilometers, 1559 01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:41,920 and the first 30 kilometers are just warm up. 1560 01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:44,600 And then it really kicks in at the last 10 kilometers 1561 01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:49,760 with an inclination of up to 18%, which is a lot. 1562 01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:52,680 I just can't go at that. 1563 01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:55,960 And that ratio can only go at like 2 kilometers per hour. 1564 01:22:55,960 --> 01:23:00,440 So you just see line by line, and you can count them. 1565 01:23:00,440 --> 01:23:02,160 And it takes forever. 1566 01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:04,400 Slower than walking. 1567 01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:06,280 Yes, exactly. 1568 01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:07,640 It's slower than walking. 1569 01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:10,760 And in control, overheating in the middle of the climate, 1570 01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:14,800 you have to stop at this tiny corner and cars and trucks 1571 01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:16,120 passing by, et cetera. 1572 01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:20,160 And Europe roads are not as wide as they are in the US, 1573 01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:20,840 by the way. 1574 01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:23,680 It just fits one car in, and that's it. 1575 01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:24,240 Boom. 1576 01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:29,040 There's not half a meter left and right, and that's it. 1577 01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:33,200 And when I was up there then, it was an incredible moment. 1578 01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:37,000 And the temperature was just barely above freezing. 1579 01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:38,240 And then it started to rain. 1580 01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:39,960 Oh my gosh. 1581 01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:40,760 Yeah. 1582 01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:43,640 And then I was searching for the next hotel, 1583 01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:45,400 and then being in a hotel. 1584 01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:48,040 And then it was published with Paralympics. 1585 01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:52,040 And that was the day for me where I will never forget, 1586 01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:56,720 because from my feeling, I got two gold medals on that day. 1587 01:23:56,720 --> 01:24:01,360 First for, so to say, the Olympic being accepted medal 1588 01:24:01,360 --> 01:24:04,440 for working so hard on that project. 1589 01:24:04,440 --> 01:24:08,680 And so to say, reaching that, and then also challenging 1590 01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:11,200 the challenge, the steepest thing I've ever 1591 01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:16,160 done with my bike, just getting that done on the same day. 1592 01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:19,840 That was an incredible moment. 1593 01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:24,440 And after that, after Innsbruck, I continued to Germany 1594 01:24:24,440 --> 01:24:29,560 to my parents' home, 600 kilometers more to go. 1595 01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:33,600 And when I left the Alps, there was another, 1596 01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:36,120 it's the so-called Scharnpass Road. 1597 01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:41,280 It's also a road which has huge traffic, just two lanes, 1598 01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:42,960 one per direction. 1599 01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:44,800 And everyone has to go on that road. 1600 01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:48,200 And during the day, there's always traffic jams. 1601 01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:50,320 So if you want to go there by bike, 1602 01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:58,120 this is actually a suicide project, I would say. 1603 01:24:58,120 --> 01:25:04,140 So I decided to go to cycle over the Scharnpass by night. 1604 01:25:04,140 --> 01:25:07,680 And so I started at 10 in the evening 1605 01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:11,280 and finished at 2 with an empty battery 1606 01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:14,200 right at the German border. 1607 01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:17,560 And then I was sleeping in my hammock below the solar roof 1608 01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:18,760 for the first time. 1609 01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:22,680 Never tested it before, and it was a fantastic experience. 1610 01:25:22,680 --> 01:25:28,480 And now on my way back to Spain, I know the weak points. 1611 01:25:28,480 --> 01:25:30,320 I collected a lot of data. 1612 01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:33,720 I also published all the data of how much solar 1613 01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:36,680 power did I consume, how much did I charge from the grid, 1614 01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:38,680 and how was the efficiency, et cetera, 1615 01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:42,840 how was the daily distance, the average speed, the altitude 1616 01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:43,360 climb. 1617 01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:45,320 And I got some really interesting insights 1618 01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:46,840 from all of that data. 1619 01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:50,400 So I now have to work on an improved level. 1620 01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:55,620 And I'm trying to get, I will have an improved bike 1621 01:25:55,620 --> 01:25:57,680 waiting for the way back to Spain. 1622 01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:02,600 So I intend to go with the bike to Bilal. 1623 01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:08,420 And I'm pretty sure I will get new records and even bigger 1624 01:26:08,420 --> 01:26:10,040 distances with the bike. 1625 01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:13,120 And yeah, we'll see. 1626 01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:14,920 I mean, I also learned along the way 1627 01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:17,200 that I'm not the only solar biker out there. 1628 01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:20,140 In the very beginning, I thought I'm the first one with the idea. 1629 01:26:20,140 --> 01:26:23,080 But along the way, I discovered that actually not new. 1630 01:26:23,080 --> 01:26:24,960 And there is an organization out there, 1631 01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:26,820 which is called the SunTrip, which 1632 01:26:26,820 --> 01:26:31,280 is doing solar races things 2013. 1633 01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:35,080 And they do way more impressive distance than I do. 1634 01:26:35,080 --> 01:26:38,600 So hand bikes or just regular bikes? 1635 01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:41,760 Well, a few hand bike, as I just know of one case, 1636 01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:43,280 they are all pedaling a leg. 1637 01:26:43,280 --> 01:26:45,320 So that's also a completely different level 1638 01:26:45,320 --> 01:26:47,680 of what you can do there. 1639 01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:51,280 And they also have recumbent bikes. 1640 01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:52,360 They have velvo builds. 1641 01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:58,560 So that's completely aerodynamic, packed 1642 01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:01,400 recumbent bikes that they have, like it's 1643 01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:02,920 the most efficient machine that you 1644 01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:07,800 can have for converting human into a movement energy. 1645 01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:09,920 And combine that with solar, and you 1646 01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:14,280 get the most incredible, let's say, numbers. 1647 01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:17,280 And you can get, so the record for that is at the moment 1648 01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:22,760 on 475 kilometers on a single day. 1649 01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:25,120 Yeah, imagine that. 1650 01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:28,160 So in comparison to that, my 212 looks 1651 01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:30,560 like I would say tiny. 1652 01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:32,120 I guess it's like half. 1653 01:27:32,120 --> 01:27:36,120 But do you have the data published 1654 01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:38,320 anywhere of your journey? 1655 01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:39,520 Yes. 1656 01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:41,160 Yeah, I published the data. 1657 01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:44,760 And I'm going to publish even more data and also 1658 01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:45,420 my improvements. 1659 01:27:45,420 --> 01:27:49,280 And I will evaluate every improvement I do 1660 01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:53,840 and decide on, I will make it public. 1661 01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:54,760 And I've filmed a lot. 1662 01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:57,720 I will also edit the video about the journey 1663 01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:01,960 et cetera, and cover more material in the future. 1664 01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:03,640 And we'll see what goes. 1665 01:28:03,640 --> 01:28:05,800 It's time consuming. 1666 01:28:05,800 --> 01:28:07,080 But I just love it. 1667 01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:11,800 It's like you cannot describe the feeling of you 1668 01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:16,360 build something which completely on your own, which 1669 01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:17,880 is way more than a bike. 1670 01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:18,920 And it's less than a car. 1671 01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:24,360 And it drives the distances that you could never think of before. 1672 01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:26,480 And I did something which is completely impossible 1673 01:28:26,480 --> 01:28:28,320 with a normal bike. 1674 01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:30,680 And I just did it with a solar electric hand 1675 01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:34,000 bike and a lot of luggage. 1676 01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:37,240 Yeah, I'll link the videos that you had sent me 1677 01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:39,760 as well in the description. 1678 01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:41,840 Yes, and more to come soon there. 1679 01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:46,600 So if I find the time aside my work and the ongoing project 1680 01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:52,640 and climbing and everything else, I would need a 48 hours 1681 01:28:52,640 --> 01:28:53,920 day actually. 1682 01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:55,880 Yeah, that's a lot. 1683 01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:58,720 But we'll keep an eye out. 1684 01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:01,800 So yeah, for the last question, we'll 1685 01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:03,720 bring it back to climbing. 1686 01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:07,600 You mentioned that you actually mostly prefer outdoor climbing 1687 01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:09,640 and do a lot more of that. 1688 01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:12,040 What's been your proudest outdoor achievement 1689 01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:13,280 in your life? 1690 01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:15,440 Well, that's a tough question. 1691 01:29:22,720 --> 01:29:24,760 My very first first ascent. 1692 01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:26,840 All right. 1693 01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:28,240 Where was it? 1694 01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:33,120 And off with chimney. 1695 01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:38,960 I don't like that, but OK. 1696 01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:40,160 It was a scary thing. 1697 01:29:40,160 --> 01:29:40,840 I saw the line. 1698 01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:43,400 I saw like, I want to do this. 1699 01:29:46,480 --> 01:29:47,480 How is the process? 1700 01:29:47,480 --> 01:29:51,600 And I had people who taught me on that 1701 01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:55,000 and showed me how to place bolts, et cetera. 1702 01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:57,960 And that's how I started into that. 1703 01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:01,960 And this is generally doing first ascent, I would say, 1704 01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:09,400 will always stay something extraordinary. 1705 01:30:09,400 --> 01:30:13,760 And just doing a hard project, for example. 1706 01:30:13,760 --> 01:30:15,960 So yes, I also think about my hardest routes 1707 01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:18,400 that I ever climbed, but I think the first ascent 1708 01:30:18,400 --> 01:30:21,880 that I did there, those are all special memories 1709 01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:23,880 because it's a process. 1710 01:30:23,880 --> 01:30:26,600 You go somewhere, you see a line, you think about it, 1711 01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:29,640 you clean it, and then you work on it, 1712 01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:31,400 and you don't know, is it possible, 1713 01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:34,480 or isn't it possible, whatever. 1714 01:30:34,480 --> 01:30:39,880 And then hopefully there's a moment where you can climb it. 1715 01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:43,040 And as I was saying, which is like bouldering 1716 01:30:43,040 --> 01:30:49,800 is for your body, sport climbing is for your brain, 1717 01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:52,080 and multi-pitch is for your soul. 1718 01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:54,680 What was the first, like, did you name it? 1719 01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:57,200 Or is it like, can you find it somewhere? 1720 01:30:57,200 --> 01:30:57,960 Oh, yes. 1721 01:30:57,960 --> 01:31:00,000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's named, it's a German name. 1722 01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:04,520 It's named Friedhofs Kamin. 1723 01:31:04,520 --> 01:31:08,080 In English, that's a graveyard chimney. 1724 01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:10,080 And it's named, it's always, you have to know, 1725 01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:12,920 a name of a route always has to have connection 1726 01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:15,680 to the route. 1727 01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:19,560 And in this specific section, it's in Germany, 1728 01:31:19,560 --> 01:31:30,400 and there were old queries where they cut off basalt columns 1729 01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:32,600 for construction purpose. 1730 01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:36,480 And so that they left big holes in the ground. 1731 01:31:36,480 --> 01:31:40,120 And on those walls, there's climbing today. 1732 01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:45,080 And in those holes in the past, also people dumped that trash. 1733 01:31:45,080 --> 01:31:46,880 There was one, yeah. 1734 01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:51,520 And there was one corner where the, I don't know how the word, 1735 01:31:51,520 --> 01:32:00,280 there was the person who builds the graveyard blocks of where 1736 01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:04,680 you inscribe the name, et cetera, on rock. 1737 01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:07,440 I don't know what it's called, but yeah. 1738 01:32:07,440 --> 01:32:09,360 Yeah, but someone is doing that, right? 1739 01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:13,560 And sometimes they engrave things in the wrong way, 1740 01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:15,840 or something breaks, whatever. 1741 01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:24,240 And they put this trash also in those holes. 1742 01:32:24,240 --> 01:32:28,960 And so below this chimney, I was doing my first ascent in, 1743 01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:32,240 it was full of graveyard blocks where I just inscribed, 1744 01:32:32,240 --> 01:32:35,080 oh, this was this name lived from, whatever. 1745 01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:37,000 And you were standing on those blocks 1746 01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:39,400 and climbing in the chimney down above. 1747 01:32:39,400 --> 01:32:41,120 That's where the name is coming from. 1748 01:32:41,120 --> 01:32:43,400 So I know you're not a story. 1749 01:32:43,400 --> 01:32:44,040 Awesome. 1750 01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:45,400 OK, good to know. 1751 01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:52,160 And I guess that's a good place to end it, 1752 01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:55,360 climbing on graveyard blocks. 1753 01:32:55,360 --> 01:32:58,360 Yeah, that's all the questions I had. 1754 01:32:58,360 --> 01:33:00,480 I guess, was there anything else you 1755 01:33:00,480 --> 01:33:05,960 wanted to have a last word on, if not the graveyard blocks? 1756 01:33:05,960 --> 01:33:10,160 That's where power climbing should not end, right? 1757 01:33:10,160 --> 01:33:11,080 Yeah. 1758 01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:14,320 Yeah, it's a bit dark. 1759 01:33:14,320 --> 01:33:20,160 Yeah, I'm really proud of the whole community. 1760 01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:22,480 And I want to thank everyone who was involved 1761 01:33:22,480 --> 01:33:24,960 in the whole process until now. 1762 01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:29,760 And as I said before, my life always 1763 01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:32,840 puts me in a situation or gives me a presence where 1764 01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:35,200 I would say the year before, it's never 1765 01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:39,480 going to happen, or I don't even dare to dream of that. 1766 01:33:39,480 --> 01:33:42,680 And I think this time now is the beginning of something 1767 01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:47,960 completely new for the sport itself. 1768 01:33:47,960 --> 01:33:50,720 And it will change the sport. 1769 01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:54,600 And I expect there will be a big focus on power climbing, 1770 01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:58,520 a focus which has never been seen before, 1771 01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:02,880 because we are really unknown. 1772 01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:09,880 Power climbing is not that known in the whole power sport 1773 01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:10,400 family. 1774 01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:12,800 And I think many sports didn't have it on their list, 1775 01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:16,720 that power climbing actually did big steps in the last years. 1776 01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:21,560 And so we will be on the biggest stage of the sport, 1777 01:34:21,560 --> 01:34:23,920 of sports, of power sports, which is there in the world. 1778 01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:26,000 And I'm proud that we will get the chance 1779 01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:28,880 and show that there's almost no disability which 1780 01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:30,960 can stop you from climbing. 1781 01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:35,920 And just show that climbing is there for almost everyone. 1782 01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:39,240 And we love climbing. 1783 01:34:39,240 --> 01:34:42,680 And I hope that we can just share it with others 1784 01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:44,760 and spread the word of power climbing. 1785 01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:48,720 All right, that's a better statement to end on. 1786 01:34:48,720 --> 01:34:52,800 So yeah, for people who want to follow your journey 1787 01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:56,800 with the solar hand bike and climbing in general, 1788 01:34:56,800 --> 01:34:58,200 where can they find you? 1789 01:34:58,200 --> 01:34:59,400 Yeah, I'm on social media. 1790 01:34:59,400 --> 01:35:01,760 You can just search my name. 1791 01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:07,600 And also on YouTube, I hope I find a time to do more there. 1792 01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:13,040 And yeah, that's why I'm going to document 1793 01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:14,200 more things from my life. 1794 01:35:14,200 --> 01:35:17,760 I also do conferences so far just in German. 1795 01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:20,920 They're also on YouTube in full versions. 1796 01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:24,560 I wrote a book also in German. 1797 01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:28,560 So yeah, that's also part of me. 1798 01:35:28,560 --> 01:35:32,560 But I don't do these things just for my own. 1799 01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:39,120 I also share my experience, share my knowledge. 1800 01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:42,800 And in order to, I always hope I can inspire others. 1801 01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:45,960 Because I also got lots of inspiration from others. 1802 01:35:45,960 --> 01:35:51,080 And I think humanity wouldn't be where it's now 1803 01:35:51,080 --> 01:35:54,000 if we wouldn't share things. 1804 01:35:54,000 --> 01:36:00,360 Otherwise, we would still sit somewhere in a cave 1805 01:36:00,360 --> 01:36:03,680 and hide the fire from others that they don't see it. 1806 01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:07,720 And I think it's very important that, yeah, share things, 1807 01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:10,160 share experiences, share ideas. 1808 01:36:10,160 --> 01:36:11,240 And that's what I do. 1809 01:36:11,240 --> 01:36:13,240 I share the things that I experience in my life 1810 01:36:13,240 --> 01:36:15,880 because I think it can inspire others to achieve bigger, 1811 01:36:15,880 --> 01:36:18,040 to achieve greater things. 1812 01:36:18,040 --> 01:36:19,240 That's what I do. 1813 01:36:19,240 --> 01:36:23,040 And did you mention the name of your, or like, Instagram? 1814 01:36:23,040 --> 01:36:25,160 Or your YouTube? 1815 01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:29,520 Well, yeah, it's Sebastian Depke, basically, to go. 1816 01:36:29,520 --> 01:36:32,120 It just, if you search my name, Sebastian Depke, 1817 01:36:32,120 --> 01:36:35,560 you will find me on the different platforms. 1818 01:36:35,560 --> 01:36:37,800 I'll leave the links in the description as well. 1819 01:36:37,800 --> 01:36:39,360 OK, well, thank you for joining me. 1820 01:36:39,360 --> 01:36:41,320 And it was amazing to talk to you. 1821 01:36:41,320 --> 01:36:42,400 Thank you. 1822 01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:45,680 Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast. 1823 01:36:45,680 --> 01:36:48,320 Don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed. 1824 01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:51,520 Otherwise, you are a super fake climber. 1825 01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:53,720 If you're listening on a podcasting platform, 1826 01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:56,000 I'd appreciate if you rated it five stars 1827 01:36:56,000 --> 01:36:57,880 and you can continue the discussion 1828 01:36:57,880 --> 01:37:00,920 on the free competition climbing Discord linked 1829 01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:02,280 in the description. 1830 01:37:02,280 --> 01:37:22,640 Thanks again for listening.