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It was shocking how bad the gyms have gotten in the Bay. If you're doing every competition,

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you're kind of just getting worse throughout the season. I'm not just a professional climber.

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I don't do well in a competition or whatever. It's not the end of the world.

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I wasn't very good at running. That's the only time I've ever actually thrown up from training.

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Welcome to the season three premiere of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast.

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I'm your host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce my guest, Ross Fulkerson. Ross is a bouldering

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lead climber on Team USA, and you may be familiar with his YouTube channel where he documents his

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climbing adventures and shares coaching tips. In this episode, we'll learn about his bikepacking

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adventure that he skipped the first half of the 2024 World Cup season for, hear about his struggle

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trying to balance competitions with his desire to travel and all his other hobbies, the importance

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of mindset and meditation. And if you're a USA Bay or you're a gym climber, maybe close your ears

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when he starts trashing the Bay Area gym scene. This episode is full of training and mindset tips,

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so I hope you learn a lot and enjoy this episode with Ross.

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I got back from Colorado. Well, I left right after qualifications because I knew I wasn't

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going to make semis and I didn't want to spend the extra money. And I also figured maybe I would be

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like sad from how bad it went. So I didn't want to extend my trip. It ended up well actually. So

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I'm pretty happy about that. Nice. Next time you got to have the confidence to book the Airbnb

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for the extra night or two. Well, I mean, I'm still pretty far from semis, but I was mostly

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worried that I just like wouldn't be able to establish on any of them. Or my goal was to like

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get a zone and I ended up getting three tops in a zone. So very happy with that. It went well.

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Yeah, that's awesome. I think the love is always more attainable than you think. Even like World

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Cups and stuff like that. Like, it's not that hard if you like, at least not all of them, you know?

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But it's just the like execution piece that becomes really tricky because you like build it

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up to be like this super big ordeal to like climb, but they're just moves, you know?

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Yeah. I mean, I didn't know what to expect going into it. So I didn't know what the level would be,

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but I think you know like Enrico, right? Yeah. Yeah. He was one of like the first

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really good coaches I worked with. I grew up coming to San Diego and working with him.

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I was working with my coach Al. They used to both like kind of round the training center at Mesa Rim.

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Yeah. So they are also like doing like the adult team here. And so he was like helping me through

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some stuff and he mentioned that like some of the grades of the boulders there might be like

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V4, V5-ish. And I guess that was pretty accurate. Like I didn't feel like I needed to use more

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strength than that, but it was just like kind of finicky and precise. Yeah. They punish you if you

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like don't do them well, but if you do them well, it's not too bad. Are you back in San Diego? Yeah.

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I just got back. I was in San Francisco for a week seeing my family and climbing around with some

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old friends there. And it was shocking how bad the gyms have gotten in the bay. Like,

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Whoa, wait, I need to hear about this. Yeah. Pretty much like touchstones are like the worst

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gyms I've ever climbed at now. Like Dogpatch used to be like such a sick gym and we would climb

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there like once a month growing up. But now like everything is so, so greasy and the setting is

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pretty suboptimal. And yeah, I was just shocked by like how bad it got because they used to be like

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some of the best gyms in the nation. I think at least when I was climbing there and yeah, overall

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the level in the bay area is pretty, pretty low apart from like benchmarks, mosaic and

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obviously the Boulder field, but that's not really the bay. But it was interesting. I felt like I

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had to learn how to climb it's completely different way because the holds are so greasy and

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I touched them and like acid wash their holds or at least they used to. So they like instead of

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power washing them, they like get rid of the chalk and like this fat. I think this is how it's been

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explained to me. So apologies if this is no longer accurate, but it like takes away all the texture

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and they just have so many people climbing on those holds that they just get so nasty so quickly.

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So they were like, yeah, I had to like completely real think about like how to engage on holds

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because it's almost like gets more slippery like the harder you squeeze. So I just did a bunch of

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volume on like easier things where I could still climb efficiently and not like feel like I was

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actively getting worse at climbing. But anyways, I feel very grateful to be back here in San Diego

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and back at the grotto and like I was at North City this morning and the wall this morning as

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well. Oh nice. Okay. And yeah, I did like warm up and then did some hard boulders with the class

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five team and then went to North City and did some speed sport laps on like a couple really cool

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like 13s there. I wonder what the Bay Area listeners are going to think about you trashing

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their gyms. I mean, I'm from the Bay Area. I feel like that they were really good and like the Bay

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Area was the strongest at least youth wise like in the nation for a little while. Like when I was

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competing, like my category like eight out of the 10 finalists at nationals were from the Bay Area

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and that was like true for a lot of categories. And then everyone kind of moved away and I guess,

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yeah, it just feels like it got very, very corporate where gyms don't really care about

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like setting well or like as long as they're making money, you know, they're like, okay,

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like onto the next gym, let's just do more and more and more instead of training setters. And a

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lot of that's like not even the setters fault, right? Because they're just given really shitty

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holds, excuse me, really bad holds. And like no one's teaching them how to set like they need to

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be like clinics and actually that's something I would love to do at one point is like at least

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my coach Hal is thinking about doing like setting for or setting clinics and stuff like that.

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But yeah, overall, I think San Diego is a much more critical approach to climbing and like trying

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to actually understand why a move is hard or easy or like from a setting perspective set to

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actually teach something. And that was a big thing we try and do with our clinics, like the one that

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you took, like making a move actually forced the climber to climb it well, and not allowing a move

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to let someone like take advantage of it because it's because they're stronger, whatever that is,

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you know?

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Yeah, I was really happy with that clinic. Because it happened like right before the comp, and I felt

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like leading up to it, I wasn't, I had kind of lost confidence and like more comp style stuff. I

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don't know why I just like hadn't gotten on much. So I kind of like needed that refresher to build

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up the confidence going into it. Because I feel like also it's like partially mental just like how

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confident you feel on those types of moves. So it's really helpful.

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Yeah, I think confidence in climbing in general, and especially in comp climbing is

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so so important and doesn't really matter what your like hardest capability is. It just matters

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like how confident you can be in like a four or five minute round on the moves in front of you. So

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that level is not always going to be like pushing like your like ideally your level is at the point

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where you're not having to learn the movements of the climbs that are in the comp. And you can

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execute those like at a subconscious level. We actually talked about this a bunch at practice

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today. Like the difference between practicing and learning moves versus performing is is very

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different. It takes being very intentional about which one you're doing to like actually make the

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most of it. Because today I was trying this campus sequence, and very much in like the learning moves

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side of things. And I had a video and like, my coach and my buddy Marco are both watching and

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then give feedback. And I tried it like 30 times, you know, and just getting like repetition getting

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data. And then I'd kind of try it again, have a different like visualize, okay, what am I trying

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to focus on now? Try that once or twice to see if it like makes sense. And then I'd kind of

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make a difference. And then once you put all these pieces together, right, you're you're chunking them

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down to manageable adjustments. And then you put the whole thing together. And at that point,

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everything should just be flowing kind of subconsciously. So I got it at the end.

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Actually, no, I didn't do it. But I felt the movement, like the flow, like the generation of

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it all. You could visualize yourself do it. Yeah, exactly. Next practice, I'll go back to it.

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And not be in like that super like, thinking state of mind, you know, and just try and execute it

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kind of at a subconscious level. And then it's like added to your your movement library. I don't know

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if we talked about that in the clinic, but that's kind of a fun way to think about moves is like,

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you learn it, and then it's like added to your movement library. And then anytime you see in a

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comp or whatever, you're like, okay, this is like the formula for this move. Like if it's a last

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day, right, like extending and generating making time over the feet. And your body just knows how

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to do those moves. And that's when it becomes really easy to like execute it in a comp and

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feel confident enough to like, just throw yourself at it. And that like learning process is huge for

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it. Because it just, sometimes it takes a long time to figure out. But then hopefully, once you

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get it, you get it. Yeah, once it clicks, like that's such a rewarding feeling. And I need to

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do a better job at like, seeking out more of those learning experiences, you know, because

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sometimes you try and move and I go, oh, that's impossible. And it takes

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like an hour or two. And like seeing your friends try and do it and like really working through it.

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And then once you do it, you're like, okay, this is easy. Why? Why was I struggling on this?

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Yeah, and we'll get into the mindset stuff later. But before we even get into like,

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anything, I know people have already been wondering why you weren't at the first few World Cups of the

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year. So what were you up to? Yeah, this was an interesting year. From the get go, I was

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more psyched on competing in ropes, just because there's a lot of outdoor projects, I want to

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pursue that are more rope oriented or deep water solo stuff. And then I qualified for the

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bouldering World Cup, which was kind of a bonus and was planning to do Salt Lake. But then this

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really cool bike packing trip slash climbing trip came up. And it was a pretty unique opportunity

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and something completely outside of my comfort zone. So I kind of figured I could do Salt Lake

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next year. Because I've been focused on ropes, I didn't feel like I was going to be able to show

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up to Salt Lake and like truly do my best like perform to the best of my abilities. And I feel

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fortunate to be in a position where like I've made finals at that comp. So it's like, well,

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if I'm not going to show up in that same shape or better, like, what's the point? Or like not

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what's the point, but there's less to learn. If I'm not like fully committing myself, and it feels

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like it just didn't feel right in my gut to like, show up with only a couple weeks of like proper

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World Cup bouldering training. So I did this bike packing trip instead where we biked from

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South Lake Tahoe all the way to Lone Pine, actually Alabama Hills. And that took like six days,

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it was like 400 miles, and I hadn't really done any road biking and stuff before that. But it was

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so beautiful just spending camping under the stars and jumping in the river in the morning.

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And we were going at a pretty mellow pace. And a couple of the guys were really experienced who'd

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done it before. So we camped at these cool hot springs and explored all these amazing zones along

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the way. And then right after the trip, we actually took one night or one day, we drove from

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Mammoth all the way to LA, got to LA at like 530. Then went to the American Alpine Club Gala dinner,

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did that till like 1230. And then took an Uber from there back to Santa Barbara, got my car there

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because I had carpooled out to South Lake with a buddy, then slept for like three hours in my car

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and then drove all the way back to Bishop that morning at six to meet up with the whole crew

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and then finish the last day of biking. So I missed like a 20 mile section going downhill from

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Mammoth to Bishop. But then I joined them for the last, I think it was like 45 mile day from

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Bishop to Alabama Hills.

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Sounds intense.

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And then the next day we woke up, yeah, early, drove all the way back to Bridgeport and then

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hiked into the Hulk, which is this epic huge wall, like pristine granite. But it was very much

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early season, like we were the first party to do it, I think. So we like camped near the base,

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like three miles from the base and then woke up at four, put crampons on and like hiked all the

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way into the base of the wall. And normally people climb it like starting now, but we were like out

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there and wanted to kind of incorporate it into this whole bike and climbing trip. So we went with

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this Chilean guy who has like climbed all over Patagonia and had a photographer and she was like

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super experienced with like big wall alpine stuff as well. So it felt like a proper adventure. We

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climbed that and then wrapped down in the dark and then hiked slash like slid down the ice all the

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way back to camp and then like got lost and had to cross a river and then walk through a swamp and

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got back to the campsite at like 11. And then I drove back to San Diego the next day and got into

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sport training mode. Geez, that is intense. So anyways, that's long story short, that's why I

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wasn't at the Salt Lake World Cup. Wow. That's really intense. I mean, it sounds like a lot of

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little sleep and a lot of exhaustion. Did you enjoy it overall?

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Yeah, no, it was so fun. I felt like the whole part was like definitely a mission, but the bike

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packing trip, like by the end of it, you feel like you could just go forever. Because we were,

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again, like we were doing like 40 miles a day, so like nothing crazy and we had a group of like six

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people. So you get to like chat with everyone as you're biking and the scenery is amazing just

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going down 395. And then we took a bunch of like side roads too, that were obviously way quieter

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than the highway and safer and really scenic. And then yeah, it's a fun routine, like wake up,

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go jump in the river, stretch a bit, make some coffee, then ride for two hours, stop for lunch

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or make lunch. And then ride for another couple hours at night, set up camp, make a campfire,

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play some music under the stars. Everyone was like a musician or just had like fun stories to tell.

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And I only had known one of the guys beforehand, so it was kind of fun to meet this whole new

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crew of people. I think eventually we'll have a video that kind of showcases that whole trip.

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It was a fundraiser for the Nick Wood Foundation and the lead climbing on the Hulk was like amazing.

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It was one of, I think I had done like six or seven trad leads before that and then I led like all

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the hardest pitches on positive vibration, which are not that hard, but they felt hard for me

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because I was just very much still learning that whole process or not even like I was placing gear

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well, but it was kind of fun to bring like that competition, like performance mindset to like

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trad climbing on a big wall where you're like exposed and there was actually 60 mile an hour

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winds for the entire day. Again, yeah, very much the wrong time of year to do that,

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but it kind of added to the experience and like placing gear. I was like so bricked on this one,

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like five 11C pitch at the top and like their rope drag was insane because I had not put slings on

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like the right cans and then you're just like pumped out of your mind like having to use both

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hands to like, well, I like got to the anchor, like run out with like a 0.0 and a 0.1, like 10

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or 15 feet below and then you do like this big move to this like ledge and mantle the ledge and

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the wind is like pushing you off a little bit and I had to have like both hands to like pick the rope

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up to like pull it up and clip the anchor, but that was one of my maybe like most favorite climbing

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experiences I've ever had because it's just so different and you feel like you're learning so

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much and also like incorporating so many things that you would use in other situations. Like I

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was doing the same like breathing techniques and like visualization and mindset stuff that I would

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do before a bouldering world cup and that yeah, just allows you to perform at a higher level,

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11C level. Well, I mean with the added danger element, I guess. Yeah. Well, that I can't really

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relate to that because I kind of stopped climbing outside generally like during like after COVID.

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I got kind of sick of it and that's when I got into the comp space. So I think that climbing is

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a little bit too real for me. This is the not real climbing podcast. So we're gonna bring it back in

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into the not real climbing portions. Yeah. But it's really cool how you can relate that to like the

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kind of mindset stuff that you have to do for comps as well. And yeah, it sounds like a lot of fun,

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just not an experience that I would ever want to do. It sounds way too intense. Yeah, it was a long,

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pretty long day. But I think understandable why you skipped the Salt Lake comp for that.

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I guess when it comes to choosing which world cups you go to, how do you get into the comps?

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How do you go to how do you sort of decide? Because I guess with like the prize money not being like

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that much, how like what makes it worth it for you to go to a World Cup? Yeah, I mean, that's a great

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question. And I think it was kind of only this year that I asked myself that. And it was a lot

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harder to answer it after having some of these like big adventurous outdoor experiences, where

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I was feeling that same amount of like connectedness and using the same techniques. But it was like on

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my own schedule and where I could I felt like be more present for like a longer period of time.

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So for comps, I mean, growing up, it would just was like it seemed like an amazing way to like

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go travel and experience this side of climbing that I hadn't kind of been exposed to yet. And

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like traveling on the circuit was really, really cool in that in that way and a really fun

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place to meet new people and like travel to all these countries. But it was definitely a hard

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balance to be like, why? Like, if you're doing every competition, like you're kind of just getting

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worse throughout the season, like traveling like that much is so taxing and it becomes hard to like

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justify in some ways. So like this year, my intention was like, okay, I want to do a couple

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comps because I really love competing. And I like like, try to challenge myself and test myself in

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these like very high pressure situations. And I think that's when you're able to learn the most

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about yourself, but also like all of these movement frameworks and like mindset techniques and things

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that I'm trying to help develop and ultimately coach more of in the future. So like that was

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why I didn't do Salt Lake. It's like, okay, I don't want to go to a World Cup unless I'm

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going to show up like fully prepared. And like that's definitely a very privileged situation

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to be in because I've like done these comps before and I know what it feels like to show up and

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having not been prepared. And it just kind of feels like, I don't know, a bit icky where you're like,

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oh, I'm like, I'm here. But like, I'm not able to like show or like prove to myself like that I'm

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capable of like, getting to finals or whatever it is, because I know I am but like, I didn't put in

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the work to get there. So I definitely this year, I'm trying to do less, but just do it, do it better.

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And it's hard for me to say no to somebody's opportunities. Like the adventure and the

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actual comp climbing and all these different, even like, if there's good waves in San Diego,

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I'm supposed to retrain like, oh, I want to like take advantage of the surfing and then also go

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climb and like, if you're just really practical about it, you're like, okay, well, that's actually

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gonna like make you worse at climbing. So I think it's always like a little bit of a trade off.

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And it's important to like, live your life and like, do what really brings you

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do joy. But yeah, asking that question to yourself is huge. And if it's

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anything but like, it's because I really want to. And there's a hundred reasons why like,

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you could really want to do a comp. But it's dangerous when it's like, oh, it's because like,

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I should or like, XY, like these people think I should or like, because I could do well. But

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if you don't believe in like your own ability to like do really well and like, or believe in

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yourself to like, learn and like, make the most of the experience, then maybe it isn't worth doing

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it, you know? Please excuse this brief intermission, but I've gotten a few requests for this. So I just

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on monetarily, liking, commenting and sharing helps a great deal as well. Back to the show.

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Yeah, it's usually like one of my first questions. But for those who like don't know your story,

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how did you start out with climbing and get into the comp scene?

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Yeah, so I guess I really started climbing on the redwood trees in our front yard. So I grew up

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near Palo Alto in the Bay Area. And we had like this 80 foot tall redwood tree in our front yard.

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And my dad and I built a tree house like 50 feet up in it. And I guess when I was like really young,

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we had a couple like ladders going up to like lofts in our house, and I would like climb around

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on those. Or so I'm told. And then once my dad kind of taught me the rules of climbing the big

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trees, he's like, all right, always have like three points of contact and like, be safe. But that was

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like, it was just a big ladder. It's like the most climbing friendly tree I've ever been in.

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So you could like run around and I have a clip on my Instagram like from five years ago or something

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of me like speed climbing the tree and you can like, just monkey like actually speed climb it.

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It was like 10 seconds to go up like 45 feet or something. So and then I did, I think I had my

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own birthday party at the gym when I was seven. Yeah, just because my mom was like, oh, like this

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would be a fun thing to have a birthday party at. And then the next year I did the same thing. And

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then I did some summer camps after that when I was like nine. And then I think I joined the team

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after that when I was like 10. Or maybe like in between nine and 10. That was at Planet Grand

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at Sunnyvale, which is a really cool gym. Like I went back there this last week actually. And the

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lead walls are like so intimidating. There's this one feature called the double wave, which is,

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it still feels like one of the most like proud gym features. Because it's just like super overhung

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and like has these like double wave features, hence the name, where if you like fall at the

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wrong spot, you kind of just like smack into the slip. So yeah, growing up, I trained a lot there

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and was fortunate to have a really cool coach, Isaac Williams, who always brought the team

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outside. So we go to Bishop for like Christmas and Thanksgiving and climbed a lot out there

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and a little bit in Yosemite and Tahoe. And had an amazing group of friends and teammates there

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that really shaped kind of the climbing community that I was part of. And we had a couple older guys

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on the team that we like, myself and a couple of the younger kids like really looked up to. And

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when I started on the team, they were like climbing B10 sort of thing. And that just like provided this

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benchmark of like, okay, like I want to train with them and I want to go project and like climb on

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the same things that they're doing. And yeah, so I did a bunch of youth comps, like, I guess the first

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actual comp I did was like second year D. So wasn't like some of the other youth or I feel like some

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of the kids like Brooke and I don't know, a lot of the other like phenomenal climbers of our generation

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started climbing when they were like, they had like four years in D, you know, in youth D. But I only

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had one year in youth D. What age does that start for people who aren't familiar? I think you can

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be any age up to like 10 or maybe like 11 or 12. Still really young, yeah. Yeah, quite young.

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Maybe it's maybe it's only like 11 or 12. And then there's like C, D, or yeah, D, C, B, A, and then

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junior. And I did, I was like, I did better at ropes at the very beginning. I won like nationals

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in like youth C, like after three years or something of competing. And then like made a couple like

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bouldering finals but never did super well in the finals. I kind of just did the whole like youth

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youth circuit every year I could. Apart from one year where I accidentally sanded off a part of my

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cinder nail. Whoa, I never noticed that. So when I was like, yeah, 12 or no, maybe it was, no, it's like 14.

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My dad and I were like making a campus board to hang at our house because we built like a little

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climbing wall as well. And it got caught in the belt sander I was using. That's awful. Like where the belt kind of

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goes back into the machine and it like sanded it down to the bone. And then like it just rearranged

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like the skin cells. So we're like the nail cells. So I grew back all wonky. But otherwise,

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yeah, it didn't really affect the climbing ones. It healed. But for a while I climbed like with a

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lobster claw, just like front two and my thumb. That's hard. And I mean, now you still can't do

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the whole like fingernails behind the volumes thing. Yeah, I can't cheat like that anymore. So

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just a purist. Don't don't get behind the volume. Yeah.

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But yeah, apparently it didn't give me Tommy Caldwell level finger injury power. But

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yeah, I mean, that would have been hard to climb like only front two. Yeah. Yeah, that would be crazy.

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Anyways, then yeah, I was always climbing outside like here and there, but never really like

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going on like long trips. It always just be like a week or something of kind of climbing in a nude

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zone and exploring around. And then started going to San Diego when I was maybe like 16 or 17, 17.

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For these Mesa room used to host these like national training camps,

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where they'd fly in like coaches from around the world and have a super

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legit team of centers, including Enrico and Al and a couple other centers that are like some of the

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best in the nation, if not the world. So I felt super fortunate to be able to like learn at those

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camps and like all some of the best kids and adult climbers in the nation at that time were like

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doing those camps. So like, I would not be anywhere close to the best, but like, they're like,

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I would not be anywhere close to the best, but like, then you're learning from

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like some of the best people in the nation, which is really cool. And that definitely kind of

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accelerated my growth, but it was hard to like climb on that in San Diego, like this comp style

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and then go back to the bay and not have like really any comp style setting. So we were always

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just making up our own moves. And I think that helped a lot with like understanding like

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visualization and having to like understand setting because like we didn't have good climbs

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that just go like hop on. It was much more like, okay, like let's try and make up moves on the wall

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that like forced us to actually climb in like a more dynamic and like positional sort of way.

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And then when the boulder field opened up, we would go up there and that's in Sacramento. So

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it's not super far, like two and a half hours, but we go up there like once a month and just have

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the most mega sessions. And that was with Tim King and Danny Sayo and Sam McQueen and

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Solomon Barthes and like a bunch of the kids that were on the Stanford climbing team.

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So we'd go up there and like literally climb for like four hours, get lunch and then climb

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for like another four hours and just try and do like every climb in the gym. And those are always

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like some of my favorite sessions. Yeah, it was pretty cool that like Tim and I would at the end

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of those sessions try and go repeat like or do every like purple tape in the gym, which is like

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the second hardest grade. And I feel like we learned a lot about like how far you could push

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yourself by like competing and trying to do a ton of these hard climbs, like a lot of volume

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after like seven hours of climbing. Which I don't necessarily recommend doing, but every now and then

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I think it's worth pushing yourself kind of beyond what you're comfortable with and

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you can realize that you actually have a lot more to give. Yeah, kind of like proving to

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yourself that you're able to. And it forces you to climb them like really efficiently because you

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don't have like the power and the strength that you did in hour one of the session or hour two.

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So yeah, that I guess thinking about it, I like that was maybe the start of like,

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understanding the value of like repeating climbs and like being more analytical and like actually

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forcing yourself, I guess, indirectly in that sense to climb them efficiently.

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And you were also part of like the class five youth team for a while, right?

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Yeah, I guess I was never really on like the youth team. But once I started, I was like,

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I went to UCLA for two years, but only two quarters of that was in person and then COVID hit.

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So for those two quarters, I drove to San Diego every single weekend. And I put all my classes

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just Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. So I'd like Thursday night or afternoon, I drive to San Diego,

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stay with my buddy Marco for four days and just climb as much as I could during those four days

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because LA has had no good climbing gyms at the time. And now it really only has like

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one good climbing gym, Long Beach Rising. But everything else is touchdown and movement. So

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sorry, touchdown and movement, but you guys got to step it up.

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So anyways, yeah, I was driving to San Diego every single weekend.

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And actually like taking the bus for a portion of that because I didn't have a car. And then

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I started just like illegally parking my car on campus and that worked out phenomenally.

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I got like one ticket for like the whole like five months I was there.

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Lucky you.

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I know. And there was like parked it right next to my dorm, which was epic. And then could go just

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like camp at the beach if I wanted to, because it was like a little camper van set up. And then come

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to class in the morning. And that was fun, but not the most sustainable routine of like four days of

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climbing and then like three days of just grinding school. So ultimately I transferred to University

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of Utah after doing the rest of that year online at UCLA and then another full year online.

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So I could be like at the US Training Center out in Salt Lake. And then was always kind of going

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back and forth between Salt Lake and San Diego because my coach Al, who's also the head of class

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five climbing, was out here and I felt like was one of the only people like really being analytical

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about climbing and like trying to develop new ways of thinking, both like with vocabulary,

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but also just like reframing the way you think about movement and really like elevating the sport.

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So that was like huge for me to be able to chat with him and like go to their team practices.

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So then around that time I started like wearing class five shirts, like competing and that felt

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like home. And then I'd go back to Salt Lake and like climb all the boulders there. And it felt

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like I'd learned to climb really well in San Diego. And then I'd go to Salt Lake and have like an

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amazing facility like with the US Training Center to like practice all those climbs and like actually

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perform. But it was for me less of a like area or like place of growth and more like performance

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oriented. And I felt like I needed a bit more of a balance. But in terms of like volume of like good

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climbs, I think Salt Lake is still the best in the nation. I mean, yeah, that makes sense. It's only

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fair. Yeah. Through like your youth climbing team experience, like growing up or anytime you've like

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worked with class five, do you what do you feel like? Or do you feel like there was anything

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unique about those programs that makes like specifically successful athletes for comps? Or

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did they like teach you things that prepared you well for World Cups?

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Yeah, totally. A ton of it is just the environment you're in. So like having really good setters

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with the space in the facility to like set applicable climbs with like a good hold selection

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is huge. And to be honest, there just aren't a lot of like setters that are able to do that.

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So yeah, Alan and Rico being some of like the best setters out there are able to like set these

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climbs that force you as an athlete to like climb them well. And this is another thing we're talking

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about today at practice is like, he was saying like, okay, like my job is to set this climb,

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and then just barely guide you, give you kind of clues on like how to climb it well. And then you

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try it a bunch of times and then come to that conclusion on your own where you like understand

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why it's actually the most efficient or like the easiest to do it in a certain way. And then

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you like actually learn the move and you can like confidently add it to that movement library I was

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talking about. So that was like huge to just have exposure to that. And then also like just making

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up creative ways to like get a lot of volume with certain types of movement and like be confident,

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just like standing on volumes literally, like having a volume station where all you do is like

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no hands slapped like that was the first time I had ever seen that was down in San Diego.

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And we're like spray wall, like movement stations where they set a whole wall that's just like

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ski dinos. And for the training camp, like you spend an hour just like doing those skate dinos.

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So yeah, they were very ahead of the times in terms of implementing like unique ways to like

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learn and teach movement. And all of their coaching is based on like a movement philosophy

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rather than like a strength philosophy. It's like you don't have to be super strong to do any of

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these. It's all like positional and like you know, you're not going to be able to do it all

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and like as a setter our goal is to like make you problem solve in this correct way that will like

376
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:17,120
allow you to like unlock this puzzle instead of like you're just gonna like overpower and like

377
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:23,200
squeeze this puzzle to death, you know. And I'm still learning that today. Like that was a big

378
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:30,000
thing I was actually practicing today at practice was like not pulling too hard on these holds for

379
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:36,160
this campus sequence because it was throwing off my whole like into arcs of my generation were

380
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,520
yeah, I don't want to get too technical but like they were no longer as efficient as they could be

381
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:51,840
because I was like engaging on this hold and like really learning to detach like your attachment

382
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,160
points and like how hard you have to squeeze a hold from like how hard you engage the rest of your

383
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:02,000
body. So just because you can grab a crimp and like own it and like do a one arm pull up doesn't

384
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:07,760
mean that you need to engage like your whole forearm and shoulder and back the second you grab

385
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:14,800
it. It's actually better to just hold that hold as hard as you need to just to like hang on it and

386
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:21,360
then like swing around it kind of like a monkey or like if you're doing monkey bars, right. It's way

387
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:28,000
easier to swing between bars if you're like smoothly flowing and your arm is straight rather

388
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:33,920
than if you like lock off and you have to like hold that lock off as you swing to the next bar.

389
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:44,560
Now you're using like way more strength to do the same movement. So yeah just being exposed to those

390
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:52,880
sort of concepts at those Macy's room training camps and then with Al at class five now was huge.

391
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:59,680
Yeah and then it produces a lot of great world-class athletes so I think there must be

392
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:05,200
something to it. Definitely and I guess I mentioned the environment so part of that is like the

393
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:11,360
coaching and setting but another part of that is like the people you're with and when you're around

394
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:17,280
a whole other group of people that are approaching climbing with that same mindset it's super powerful

395
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:24,640
because like right now class five has a open team as well so I'm on that with my buddy Marco and a

396
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:31,680
couple of the the older kids from the youth team but also a handful of just psyched adults and like

397
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:38,240
setters in San Diego and there's a pretty wide range of like climbing abilities but we're all

398
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:46,000
like learning the same concepts and like looking at improving kind of with that same like analytical

399
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:50,800
approach at least when you're practicing. So it's really fun just to like chat with everyone and

400
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:59,040
be in this like really high energy kind of rich learning environment. So if you're in San Diego

401
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:07,040
want to join an adult team class five is pretty solid Grotto also has an adult team that's very

402
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:13,120
legit. Yeah it's all very popular nowadays. That my good friend Marco coaches. Oh cool I didn't know

403
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:21,440
he coached it. Cool yeah. Okay yeah so in terms of your competition experience do you have like a

404
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:29,360
favorite IFSC comp that you went to? Yeah I mean they're all they're all pretty cool. My first

405
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:35,440
youth worlds was in Guangzhou China and that was a pretty cool experience like just first time being

406
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:42,800
in Asia and first time like competing at like an international event like that. But in terms of

407
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:52,560
just like overall psych or like energy I think like the Chamonix World Cup is pretty

408
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:57,840
pretty epic like being able to be on the route and then look to your right and see the glacier

409
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:02,240
coming down and having like thousands and thousands of people behind you. What happened at

410
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:10,480
um youth worlds in Guangzhou? I mean there wasn't any like particular like moment that was like

411
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,640
crazy but just that whole like environment of seeing all these other kids from around the

412
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:20,560
nation and like meeting all these people and just like realizing that rock climbing was like

413
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:29,840
actually this much bigger sport slash like career than I had like otherwise imagined.

414
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:35,680
Um it was pretty cool um because I feel like like I went there with my family and we spent

415
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:41,520
like a week and a half-ish in like Hong Kong before and then went to Guangzhou and it was less of

416
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:47,760
like a performance like all right you're here to like win this competition. It was more of like a

417
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:53,440
travel experience and like climbing thing but then after that you're like seeing kids that are like

418
00:45:53,440 --> 00:46:00,960
showing up and taking it like so so seriously and um I guess that was kind of an interesting

419
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:06,960
realization for me. Um and I guess something I still kind of like struggle with is like

420
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:16,480
understanding the line between like putting a hundred percent of your effort into one thing

421
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:24,160
and also like making the most of the experiences that come with like competing in other countries

422
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:29,120
and stuff like that because like the World Cup Circuit like you're in these amazing places

423
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:36,960
but if you truly want to like do your best like objectively like you should get there beforehand

424
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:44,560
and like just rest for like a bunch of days and not like go explore around um which was always

425
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:49,680
like really hard for me so I was I felt like me and a couple other people on the circuit would

426
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:56,160
try and take advantage of those places a bit more than other people and maybe that hurt

427
00:46:56,720 --> 00:47:03,520
some of my performance but I think I enjoyed the experience more overall maybe. I don't know that's

428
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:10,160
very like specific to like each person but like in Italy last year like in Brixton that was actually

429
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:18,080
one of the the cooler bouldering World Cups um like winter out like the day before or like two

430
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:24,560
days before and like did like a super chill like mile hike to go like check out these amazing rock

431
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:31,120
formations on the Dolomites and like that sort of thing always seems like almost like better

432
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:35,040
for me performance wise because you're able to like connect with nature and just like kind of

433
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:41,840
slow down and be more present and then bring that same kind of attitude into the competition

434
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:48,640
whereas if you're like 1000% focused and you're just in your hotel room all day

435
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:56,880
and you're like this comp is like everything in the world then it kind of amplifies maybe any

436
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:03,440
mistakes you make it almost becomes like this negative feedback loop right whereas

437
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,840
if you take the kind of like degrowth mindset approach like I'm like you to learn and like I

438
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:15,760
obviously want to do my best and um like I was like taking quite seriously but I think more so

439
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:20,960
than other people I was also wanting to go explore around a little bit. Yeah I can only see how that

440
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:29,040
would be like a hard choice to make I feel like before Veil I kind of just sat around but then

441
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:35,680
all I could do was just sit there and think about like how nervous I am or like I don't know what

442
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:43,440
else to do I'm just kind of like stuck here in this like idle state where it's like well I'm not

443
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:48,720
really taking advantage of anything and now I'm kind of just here and I feel like I'm kind of

444
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:56,720
wasting a trip but yeah it's it's nice to get to go out and experience it. Yeah I think

445
00:48:56,720 --> 00:49:00,560
I would encourage anyone like listening to this that's competing and maybe they've experienced

446
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:07,040
that same like idle like restlessness state just to go like take a walk outside like that's not

447
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:11,760
going to hinder your performance at all like a couple miles or just like walking around

448
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:18,000
and just go like meditate in the forest or something. And I guess so that kind of makes

449
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:25,040
me wonder so your like best result was in Salt Lake um do you think you were able to

450
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:32,560
like um do you feel like maybe since you didn't feel that need to like explore you kind of had

451
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:38,080
that hometown advantage and you were able to perform better there? Yeah totally.

452
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:47,440
100% like for two weeks before I was I had like a very consistent routine of like waking up

453
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:54,960
doing like 10 minutes of meditation out on the deck then like reading a book about like mindsets

454
00:49:54,960 --> 00:50:03,680
and then every like other day I'd go like jump in the like cold plunge and try and like

455
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:10,400
practice my like reading techniques to like slow down my heart rate and it was a very yeah focused

456
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:17,440
routine and all of my climbing during that period was just at the gyms around Salt Lake where

457
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,440
it was all like performance oriented so for two weeks beforehand I

458
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:31,360
would go do like a full off the wall warm-up and then just climb like the 10s or below like

459
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:38,160
I would basically try and do like every the like six or seven to like the 11 in the gym

460
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:45,920
or at least all the like compi style ones that were like um or movement oriented and just repeat

461
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:51,600
each one like two or three times until I felt super confident in like the method I was doing it

462
00:50:51,600 --> 00:51:00,720
um and then like you have this massive like library of movement and this huge volume of climbing that

463
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:09,360
you've done really really close to like the limit of how well you can climb you know um and then

464
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:15,280
like you do the competition and you don't expect to climb any different than you already have been

465
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:24,000
climbing like I feel like people maybe go to the gym and climb just like so-so or then they like

466
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:29,520
go to a competition and like expect to like climb great or like expect to climb different than like

467
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:35,280
how they normally climb and for me before competitions it's really important to like

468
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:43,600
increase the average of like your your best climbing like if if you think about like in a

469
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:48,160
competition you're gonna there's all these like distracting variables in a competition so it's

470
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:55,120
harder to climb like at your best you know so before the competition you want to be like

471
00:51:55,120 --> 00:52:02,240
maximizing the amount of like really efficient good climbing you're doing and I think one of the best

472
00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:09,040
ways to do that is like repeating climbs and having like a long off-the-wall warm-up so like

473
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:14,400
the second you pull on the wall you're just climbing super efficient super flowy really like

474
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:21,760
snappy and engaged um so one of my like favorite practical pieces of advice there is like hopping

475
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:26,400
on like doing an off-the-wall warm-up like stretching doing a little hangboarding getting

476
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:31,200
your muscles and mind ready including like a lot of breath work and like doing a lot of

477
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:35,680
like a lot of breath work like how do you want to be breathing when you are actually climbing like

478
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:41,680
warm that up before you get on the wall but then when you hop on the wall go do like a v0 three

479
00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:46,560
or four or five times in a row or a couple different ones and just try and do it like super

480
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:51,360
fast and that like I was talking about this during our clinic but that kind of helps get that mind

481
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:59,600
body connection solidified and also just gets you moving how at least I want to be climbing in a

482
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:06,160
competition where it is kind of subconscious and your limbs are just going where you want them to

483
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:12,960
go and you're able to like think and make really quick and accurate decisions yeah that makes sense

484
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:19,440
and do you also feel like maybe it's a setting preference within like you're more used to the

485
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:24,720
kind of USA style settings so it gives you another kind of advantage or do you feel like there's not

486
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:33,200
much difference there um yeah that's definitely part of it but I I mean there's like the the

487
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:38,480
setting crew is an international crew no matter where it is but in salt lake there's more American

488
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:48,960
centers um so if anything at least like the comps that I've done really well at in salt lake were

489
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:57,520
like slightly easier boulders that I was able to like execute really well on like I made semi-finals

490
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:04,560
or I've made finals because I did like all four the climbs and like pretty low attempts and same

491
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:11,840
like even just making semi-finals like I had to do like four out of the five climbs in like quite

492
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:20,080
low attempts then I was like better at that like I could execute like in four minutes or in a couple

493
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:27,280
tries like closer to my limit or like but my highest limit I don't think was like crazy

494
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:33,200
like where like the best people at that comp could definitely like out climb me in terms of like

495
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:41,760
difficulty um but I could be consistent at like climbing to 90 to like 95 percent of my potential in

496
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:48,720
a couple tries but okay well actually I want to rephrase that because that's at least maybe how

497
00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:54,240
I was thinking about it then but I think that's because I never spent a ton of time like projecting

498
00:54:54,240 --> 00:55:02,880
really hard climbs and then um coming back and like talking to Al and uh Josh they were like okay like

499
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:08,240
I think you should spend more time like projecting really hard climbs um and then like really learning

500
00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:17,600
those moves so you can kind of increase that that bar but I will say I think it's important to like

501
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:25,520
kind of stagger like strength training to be like after like the execution like all of the visualizing

502
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:30,080
breath work like all these other tactics that allow you to like consistently climb close to

503
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:36,640
your potential like if you're not climbing consistently to like 90 of your like physical

504
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:43,760
limit there's no point in adding strength to that equation it actually makes it a lot harder

505
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:50,320
to like be consistent and learn how to move well um so you kind of think about it like a staircase

506
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:58,560
where like you get strong or like for most people right like your x level of like strength and then

507
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:04,000
you work to like increase your execution and like understand how to like consistent climb at that

508
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:08,640
level and then you add on a little bit more strength and then learn how to do that same

509
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:14,720
level of like execution and um climbing with that new strength yeah when I when I started working

510
00:56:14,720 --> 00:56:19,360
with Al he basically was like okay you have to like forget how to climb completely and like

511
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:26,400
relearn how to climb with this new kind of framework for like moving efficiently and

512
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:32,640
climbing positionally and making time over the feed and under the hands and like all of these

513
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:40,720
concepts that don't work if you just like grab a hold and pull really hard and I'm still like

514
00:56:40,720 --> 00:56:46,640
learning to do that now where like I can sometimes just like overpower climbs because I'm pretty

515
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:50,880
strong and because I grew up like in the Bay Area climbing on these like pretty straightforward

516
00:56:50,880 --> 00:57:00,080
like power overhanging blocks um but then like the real power is like being able to do both of

517
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:07,760
those because sometimes you do need to just like have raw power um but even then you have to like

518
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:14,560
it's more efficient to approach it from like a movement and like uh positional standpoint

519
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:20,240
so would you say that you don't really do much strength training nowadays no I don't do like

520
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:28,480
any right now well okay that's maybe not it depends on to me my strength training but like I haven't

521
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:35,040
done like much weight lifting or like cycles of like hangboarding like I'll do a long warm-up that

522
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:42,320
includes like some block pulls and these like more like maintenance um or like fight I guess

523
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:46,640
they're like getting your fingers stronger but it's not like I'm hangboarding for a bunch of

524
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:52,080
hours every week or like lifting weights or like a lot of it's like very functional it's like

525
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:58,240
functional mobility exercises where you're like trying to recreate positions on the wall and then

526
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:06,320
just do a couple sets like twice a week that's kind of all you need to get stronger in a lot

527
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:13,600
of cases like it's a lot more efficient like there's a bunch of studies um around like using

528
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:20,640
drop sets or like end range like strength where it's kind of the same concept as like

529
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:28,800
uh the like strength versus like execution it's like with mobility like if you're not able to like

530
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:34,240
actually use your flexibility then it doesn't really matter and you should spend time like

531
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:39,920
getting strong and like healthy in those end ranges and then you add on a bit more like

532
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:49,520
flexibility and then you get strong again um so for like finger strength and things like that like

533
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:53,840
if your wrists aren't healthy and you're like your lumbar curls can't take like the added

534
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:58,480
strain of like having really strong fingers it doesn't really matter like you have to be

535
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:05,440
able to use that strength in like a functional range and like especially with comp climbing

536
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:11,360
like there's all these crazy like presses and like weird types of like engagement where you

537
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:16,080
have to like grab a hold at a really weird angle like where your wrist is all like yeah kind of

538
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:23,200
cocked to the side yeah um and if it's not ready to like take that force then it doesn't really

539
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:28,720
matter if you can do a one arm on like a six mil crimp yeah going back to like comps that you've

540
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:38,400
uh done um you've also done some like other non-ifsc comp formats um i think i saw that you did like

541
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:44,880
the team boulder arena uh in paris um and then i've watched like a few other types of competitions

542
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:52,480
um what other like formats have you competed in and enjoyed yeah um the team boulder arena too

543
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:58,880
in paris was like one of the most fun comp experiences i've had um so i was partners with

544
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:05,280
simone lorenzi and uh i guess for people who don't know i have made a youtube video about it that

545
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:12,240
explains like the whole format and everything but the the quick version is uh for qualifiers there

546
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:21,440
were 20 climbs in this big like u-shaped climbing gym and you or your partner had to do uh each

547
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:28,480
climb like in order so it was four minutes on and then you no rest period straight to the next one

548
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:33,040
but only like you or your partner had to do each climb and they started off pretty easy but around

549
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:39,280
like 13 they kind of got trickier so you'd kind of go around the circle just trying all of them

550
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:44,640
and the climbs would each get progressively harder and if you didn't do one of the blocks then you

551
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:51,040
were like oh so like the 13th problem was like this pretty tricky slab and that got a bunch of

552
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:58,080
teams and then simone carried us a fair amount i felt like in uh in qualifiers where he kept just

553
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:03,040
like flashing them all and i feel like i didn't have a chance to like get warm enough like on

554
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:12,000
that like more comfy style um but he was also just like crushing it so we did like all all 20 of them

555
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:19,120
and then for finals it was a pretty unique yeah we were the only team to do to do all 20 um and

556
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:28,960
like tomoa and and a bunch of their other japanese team kokoro uh and then like paul and mejdi and

557
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:37,280
like crazy crazy crew at that comp um hey mej was there as well uh and then for finals they had one

558
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:43,680
like really tricky slab climb and one person from your team had to try it and you had to flash it to

559
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:52,080
to get on to like the rest of the finals so they had yeah and uh simone tried it and they

560
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:56,880
it wasn't able to do that one uh it was like super low percentage but like not super

561
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:02,720
physically difficult um so there were like seven teams that made finals because we tied

562
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:11,520
and then like three of the teams fell on that first slab and then everyone else uh the format

563
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:17,680
was like four minutes on and you and your teammate could try as many times like between the two of

564
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:24,880
you so it's just like a normal like ifc format or when it's on like um and a full like final

565
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:30,080
but your you and your teammate were like on the same boulder so i thought like it was a lot more

566
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:35,200
strategy between you and your partner like being able to communicate like what adjustments you

567
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:39,440
would make like what you learned from that attempt and then also from a spectating standpoint it was

568
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:47,920
way more interesting to watch because there's just always someone on the wall um so minus

569
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:55,040
minus the flash boulder i think that would be a pretty cool format to see more of do you like

570
01:02:55,040 --> 01:03:03,520
competing in that kind of team way because i feel like i don't really like team sports because i

571
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:10,480
feel really there's like extra pressure that you could also let down your teammate instead of like

572
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:15,200
if you're just competing for yourself you can only let down yourself but then there's just like other

573
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:21,920
person who's also kind of counting on you and i i hate that pressure yeah that's interesting i think

574
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:26,640
i mean yeah i wouldn't want like every comp in the world to be like that format for sure

575
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:34,400
but for like a spectator focused not spectator focused but like a more like informal competition

576
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:39,280
i think it was it was more fun and maybe just because it's like different as an athlete it's

577
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:44,240
kind of fun to like try and figure out like the strategy behind a different format like that but

578
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:53,040
i think it uh yeah that added pressure is definitely something to to be aware of and like

579
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:59,840
like maybe that's like a lesson or something you could learn from like oh if i'm like worried

580
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:06,080
about letting down like my partner like why why am i not confident in like my own abilities and

581
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:13,920
like how could i train that um because it's the same thing as like like i felt that same thing

582
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:18,720
where like i didn't flash a couple of the climbs and then simone did it i was like oh shoot like

583
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:26,240
i'm gonna get caught up in this like negative thought cycle and that's a really good time to

584
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:32,480
practice like flipping flipping that that downward spiral like into like an upward one when you're

585
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:41,600
like okay like i am confident in that and like i am able to climb well and just uh i guess those

586
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:46,080
moments of like higher pressure when you actually can understand that and like learn that about

587
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:52,880
yourself and then it just is up to you to like make the most of that realization i guess

588
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:59,840
so yeah i guess going into the mindset portion of things um that's something that you practice a lot

589
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:06,800
of and that you preach a lot about um do you can you like remember a time where you were like really

590
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:12,800
close to losing your cool during a competition and then you were able to turn that around

591
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:18,080
yeah i mean there's like hundreds of situations like that whether it's like

592
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:25,920
on a full competition level or like more commonly just on like a boulder or like even attempt level

593
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:30,880
where like you do one attempt on something and it doesn't feel possible at all and like

594
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:38,320
it all just starts with like that awareness of like realizing like oh like i just started

595
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:44,240
started going down like the wrong path i'm like this feels too hard i can't blah blah blah like

596
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:49,840
all of this all these thoughts that are taking you out of like the here and now and bringing you to

597
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:55,360
like the there and then of what you could have done differently in your competition or even like

598
01:05:55,360 --> 01:06:00,480
the future like negative outcomes of like oh if i don't do this right now then blah blah blah is

599
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:05,840
gonna happen i won't win the comp i won't get to go to the world cup blah blah blah um but like

600
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:09,280
literally none of that is going to help you do the boulder in front of you so just being really

601
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:15,840
practical about like my goal and like i i owe it to myself like i owe it to all the training i've

602
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:22,720
done to stay present and focused and like show up the best version of myself that i can

603
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:32,480
and i think for me being very uh very honest with myself about what that actually means

604
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:38,720
has been huge and like in the gym or in your practice or anytime you've like accomplished

605
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:47,440
something big like has that come from a place of like anger or like distracted like okay like

606
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:51,040
screw this climbing i'm just gonna hop on and like give it one more attempt or was it because

607
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:55,840
you like actually took a second to like breathe like slow down and like were more intentional

608
01:06:55,840 --> 01:07:04,720
with that attempt um and the vast majority it's the latter um so being able to like notice that

609
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:10,640
in the comp and then really quickly reframe that like negative thought or whatever into like okay

610
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:17,600
like this is actually an opportunity to like showcase all of the work i've put in or like oh

611
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:22,960
i'm feeling stressed that just means i really care about this thing like i i feel stressed all the

612
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:31,520
time but i try and like reframe into a like all like this nervousness is just because i'm really

613
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:39,840
passionate about climbing and i want to show to myself and other people that like i put in this

614
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:44,640
work and like i learned this thing and like i'm able to like climb to the best of my ability

615
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:50,400
but in order to do that i need to like let go of all of those like expectations and

616
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:56,960
uh any like kind of judgment around that and just like believe in your ability to to perform

617
01:07:56,960 --> 01:08:02,960
and i think there's that can show up differently for for people like what that specific like

618
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:10,800
motivational thing is um but in general i think it's helpful to have it be like a

619
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:16,480
reframe those like negative thoughts and be like a positive like opportunity sort of thing rather

620
01:08:16,480 --> 01:08:24,400
than a like oh shit like if i don't do this this will be bad and that's like a whole like growth

621
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:29,440
mindset thing and there's been like hundreds of studies on that it's um like framing it into

622
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:36,400
this opportunity to to learn and grow um and just allowing i think it's important to allow yourself

623
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:43,040
to still like feel disappointed or like nervous and all these like natural emotions um but just

624
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:47,760
being like realistic about like what actually when do you perform your best or when do you feel your

625
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:54,240
best and then trying to train and get into that mindset as consistently as possible uh that did

626
01:08:54,240 --> 01:09:00,720
not answer your question though i think a specific time that i like felt that struggle and then

627
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:07,840
didn't really lose you're close to uh to losing it there didn't like i saw like world cups for

628
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:15,760
example like in qualifiers or actually like in semi or in finals for that comp like i did and

629
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:21,680
i didn't do the first boulder and i knew i could have and it felt easy i was like oh my god like i

630
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:29,600
just i i didn't stay true to like my training and there was a moment of like an iso before going

631
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:36,480
out for the second boulder of just like what the heck like i just screwed up and i was like

632
01:09:36,480 --> 01:09:42,000
i just screwed up like you also knew that everyone else did it yeah no i knew everyone else had done

633
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:49,120
it and i was just like oh my gosh like what i'm so silly um and then that's kind of like a really

634
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:57,360
good cue for me to just like i kind of visualize there being like four separate climbs like in my

635
01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:02,000
mind and like you walk through like one door and i'm like that's one climb it's pretty isolated

636
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:09,200
from the next climb so like spend the time like reflect on it um and if it's like a four minute

637
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:15,680
round right you only have like four minutes to rest maybe spend 30 seconds thinking about that

638
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:21,040
last boulder and be like okay like dang i didn't do it this is what i could have done i could have

639
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:26,080
taken another breath or just like slow down be a bit more present and then completely let it go

640
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:32,560
like close that door like maybe you visualize like a bubble and each bubble is like has its

641
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:37,040
little climb in it and then that bubble kind of just vanishes and then it's only like the three

642
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:48,960
next climbs um so i i was proud of that kind of reframing in iso there and um yeah i think i ended

643
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:53,920
up just kind of being like okay like that was silly like obviously i could have done that climb

644
01:10:53,920 --> 01:11:00,480
um because it's not super physically hard and i was just a little too angsty like too much too

645
01:11:00,480 --> 01:11:09,760
much energy too much thought like cluttering my ability to just climb how i climb um and for me

646
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:14,320
like that's a huge like realization is like you climb your best when you're able to like execute

647
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:19,280
these moves on a subconscious level and that's true for like pretty much any high performer in

648
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:25,120
the world like i did a bunch of studying around like flow states and these like my what's a peak

649
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:30,000
performance and it's called like transient hyperfrontality when like the prefrontal cortex

650
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:37,040
kind of slows down and you're performing these tasks at like a more subconscious level um

651
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:45,920
and so like just taking the time to like do a breathing routine or like a little meditation

652
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:54,880
thing or whatever it is um to get into that more uh like present like decluttered state of mind is

653
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:59,360
hugely important so that's what i did i just like laid down on my back in the grass in the back of

654
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:07,040
the iso zone nice um and kind of reset and then came out to the second boulder and and was able

655
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:16,800
to do it um and then the same thing happened on the third boulder where i maybe could have slowed

656
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:21,920
down the heart rate and like re-centered a bit more after like the energy of the second boulder

657
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:29,760
and then i like slowed it down again after that and then was able to do the last boulder um but

658
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:39,440
that's kind of only something you can not only but that was like my first world cup final and uh it's

659
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:45,680
hard to like learn how to deal with that like pressure and everything without actually being

660
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:53,200
in that situation so i think giving yourself like that little breathing room to like learn a new

661
01:12:53,200 --> 01:13:00,160
um just learn a new like not system but like how to like practice and like be yourself in this new

662
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:05,920
environment is really important and like the weekend before was i'd made like semi-finals and

663
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:13,040
then i had kind of like that same amount of like over over psych like over cluttered energy in

664
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:17,920
the semi-finals that led to me being like a couple spots out of finals and then i was like okay like

665
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:25,840
next weekend like really slow it down don't get led yourself like uh like dump all of your adrenaline

666
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:30,160
after the first boulder and qualifiers right like you kind of have to play this longer game

667
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:40,080
and it is kind of a game like that like you need a lot of like mental stamina to like get through

668
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:44,320
three rounds of really hard climbing especially when they're like yeah these

669
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:48,960
really high performance like execution rounds where like you have to top every boulder in qualifiers

670
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:57,600
and semis to make a final um like that's why it's it's so inconsistent like in the top of like the

671
01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:02,720
field because even though like everyone is crazy strong and capable of like doing all of these

672
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:07,440
boulders the only people that are like really consistent are the ones that are like able to

673
01:14:07,440 --> 01:14:15,360
kind of mindset and like only put out enough energy to like do the climbs and then recover enough

674
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:19,680
before semi-finals or before finals to do the same thing over and over again

675
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:27,120
yeah well it also seems a lot more inconsistent in like the men's side whereas like on the women's

676
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:32,880
side it seems like there's usually the same kind of people making finals and then it's like

677
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:38,240
on the women's side it seems like there's usually the same kind of people making finals and winning

678
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:45,280
finals but i feel like men's is all over all over the place yeah i think i don't this might

679
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:53,120
be wrong but it seems like there's the top of the women's field is like more distinguished between

680
01:14:53,120 --> 01:15:02,400
the bottom of the women's field in terms of like strength and mentality so like they can have a

681
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:08,000
day where they only perform like 60 of their potential but they're still making finals

682
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:12,400
because like that potential is just like so much higher than like the bottom half

683
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:19,040
whereas the men's field like maybe a higher percentage of the field is like

684
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:24,400
meets that like strength threshold required by the climbs if that makes sense and it becomes more of

685
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:29,920
like an execution game like who's able to like keep it together mentally and like be consistent with

686
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:39,360
their climbing uh yeah that could be completely wrong but that's kind of a theory

687
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:45,120
no yeah i kind of see that as well um but yeah going back to what you had said earlier you had

688
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:50,400
mentioned like meditation uh one of the discord questions that came in was about your thoughts on

689
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:59,040
meditation um they were wondering if you find meditation to be easier in isolation or if you

690
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:07,520
also do it a lot when you're like actively climbing like on the rock or on the um boulder

691
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:17,760
during a competition yeah um i find it helpful pretty much all the time but it is a very

692
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:25,760
uh it's tricky to like be consistent with it especially when traveling i find um so i think

693
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:30,320
having like just some non-negotiables for that like all right every morning just like five minutes

694
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:35,120
i'm just like sitting and just like breathing and if your mind wanders somewhere else like that's

695
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:39,840
totally okay just bring it back to your breath or like closing your eyes and kind of like focusing

696
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:44,080
on that third eye whatever it is like you can kind of like play around and find what feels the best

697
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:53,680
for you but my routine was or is uh like trying to find like 10 to 20 minutes in the morning

698
01:16:53,680 --> 01:17:02,240
to just like sit outside and just do a breathing meditation um and then if it's before a competition

699
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:06,640
like actually visualizing like what it's going to feel like to be in that environment like if it's a

700
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:14,400
gym that you've competed at before a venue you've been at before um like put yourself in isolation

701
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:19,600
like visualize yourself like doing your same breath sequence or whatever it is like in that

702
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:25,520
chair in iso feeling confident in the chair and then like visualize yourself in front of the wall

703
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:29,600
if you know like what the wall angles are you could go through like for each of like the

704
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:37,840
different like slabs or overhang whatever um kind of visualize like yourself breathing doing your

705
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:42,880
routine putting your shoes on at like one minute or two minutes standing up and like just feeling

706
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:49,520
like psyched and confident like whatever you want to feel like in that moment feel that same way

707
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:53,440
and like prime your your nervous system to feel that same way before the call

708
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:58,000
so i'll do that a lot even if i don't know the same way that i'm doing it but i'm doing it

709
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:05,120
even if i don't know the same like what every venue is like it's my like i have the same routine

710
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:13,520
like that four minutes is like the same no matter where i am um and so like visualizing that and

711
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:22,080
kind of like downloading that uh that sequence of like feelings and like that energy i think is

712
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:29,200
really important and then once you're in iso you just like kind of replay that same sequence um

713
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:34,560
at least from like a mindset standpoint like your warm-up might be a little different because

714
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:40,480
uh like the warm-up zones are always going to be different or whatever it is but as long as

715
01:18:40,480 --> 01:18:45,120
you can get to that same like place of feeling like really confident in psych and just like all

716
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:53,440
this good energy uh i find that's like a really consistent place to approach a competition from

717
01:18:54,800 --> 01:19:01,360
and then it's like during in isolation i'll try and find like maybe 10 minutes before i i start

718
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:07,440
warming up to just go sit and like breathe and then at least 10 minutes before i go out like

719
01:19:07,440 --> 01:19:13,280
in the half hour before i go out to just go sit and and breathe and kind of slow your heart rate

720
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:22,160
down and uh for me it's a lot easier to approach a boulder with like this calm collected state of mind

721
01:19:22,160 --> 01:19:27,520
rather than like hyping yourself up a ton and then you turn around and it's a slab climb and you have

722
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:34,400
to be like super delicate like it's a lot easier to for me at least i mean i think this goes for

723
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:42,880
most people but easier to like increase the level of energy in your body um than it is to like slow

724
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:49,760
it down so if you turn around and it's actually like a big huge dino with like some crazy small

725
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:55,440
crimps you have to like power scream on then it's easy to just like power scream like slap yourself

726
01:19:55,440 --> 01:19:59,920
on your shoulders a little bit and like increase the level of energy to the level that the boulder

727
01:19:59,920 --> 01:20:07,200
requires but more often than not especially in a competition with like all this extra energy coming

728
01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:13,520
from the crowd and environment and just more stress than you might be used to uh you really have to

729
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:19,360
work to like bring your heart rate down to the level of the boulder and i guess this is not

730
01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:24,720
directly related to meditation but trying to seek that energy level out in your training i think is

731
01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:31,120
really important too like if every single competition you do you're feeling like okay like there's a lot

732
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:37,200
of energy here and like i'm not able to execute how i normally do because like my mind is just

733
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:43,360
going 100 miles an hour maybe practice doing that in your training and get like comfortable and

734
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:50,720
confident executing with all of that extra kind of energy or like it's a balance between that and

735
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:55,920
also just getting really good at like slowing your heart rate down and like decluttering your mind

736
01:20:55,920 --> 01:21:01,600
uh so it just feels like another day of climbing at the gym like that's when i feel the best is like

737
01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:07,600
insult like i didn't even know the crowd was there for like the boulders that i did you know

738
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:14,640
for any competition that you like do really well like when you get into that flow state uh like

739
01:21:14,640 --> 01:21:20,160
that transient hyperventilator that said before like that actually means you're not thinking about

740
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:26,400
like anything but like the present and part of their brain function that like slows down and kind

741
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:33,280
of deactivates is uh the region that controls like time so things start to like feel like they're in

742
01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:40,480
slow motion you do a boulder like whoa like what just happened also the same system that distinguishes

743
01:21:40,480 --> 01:21:47,440
you from the rest of the world like this distinguishes you from like the pads or the air

744
01:21:47,440 --> 01:21:53,600
around you like that kind of starts to fade away so you're literally like one with whatever you're

745
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:59,120
you're doing and it's a pretty special like place to feel like that connected and i'm sure anyone

746
01:21:59,120 --> 01:22:04,240
listening and you as well can like relate to a moment where you felt like that amount of like

747
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:09,920
presence and you've like topped the boulder got done with the run or like i don't know even finished

748
01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:14,000
writing like an email or essay whatever it is and you're like well like what the heck like where

749
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:21,200
where was i like that was some really cool place it was just that um so just trying to like practice

750
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:28,240
get into that state of mind work consistently is huge and like that's my ultimate goal is like

751
01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:35,200
if you could tap into that amount of like focus and concentration on demand like it'd be

752
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:41,760
invincible you would it'd be pretty close yeah no it's one of the best feelings

753
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:48,880
yeah no it's one of the best feelings yeah um you've also i think i've heard you mention in like

754
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:54,240
uh previous podcasts or interviews um you've mentioned like being comfortable with the

755
01:22:54,240 --> 01:23:00,720
uncomfortable and i feel like i can relate to that phrase a bit um how do you feel like you apply that

756
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:07,520
to climbing and life in general totally that's a great question um honestly what i was talking

757
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:13,120
about with the visualization before is like a huge piece of that like visualizing yourself being

758
01:23:13,120 --> 01:23:20,800
uncomfortable even like on a specific move maybe you're like visualizing a a scary move on a slab

759
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:26,800
where you have to like rock over a bad foot it's totally natural like feel a little scared and like

760
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:31,920
have that increase in like adrenaline as you like step onto that foot and realize like oh shit i have

761
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:38,160
to like fully trust this thing i might fall down this whole wall or like slip out of nowhere so

762
01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:43,520
when you're on the ground like visualize yourself like uh there's a couple cool studies that were

763
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:48,800
showing that the most efficient way to visualize is actually in the third person first so like

764
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:54,560
projecting yourself onto the wall um i kind of do it like in slow motion like okay like what are the

765
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:59,920
different ways i could do this boulder and then once i figure out um how i want to try it like

766
01:23:59,920 --> 01:24:04,480
what the most efficient way is then i'll visualize that same thing in the first person so what does

767
01:24:04,480 --> 01:24:12,080
it actually feel like to trust this foot overcome that like feeling of fear like you can pretty much

768
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:16,080
get yourself to feel like the same way you're going to feel on the wall once you like practice

769
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:23,600
it a lot and like align that mental representation with like the actual physical um representation

770
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:30,000
uh and get to the point where you can like overcome that little bit of like fear and uh

771
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:36,720
that like heightened mindset on the wall and then you climb up there and you actually get to really

772
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:41,360
like oh i've already like i've already trusted this foot in my mind i'm comfortable in this

773
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:49,600
situation and then you can execute with a like way less doubt and like way less distractions than

774
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:58,000
you otherwise could so i think that's a pretty fun exercise to try um and i could talk a lot more

775
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:05,440
about like that visualization piece of things but working towards like aligning that like mental

776
01:25:05,440 --> 01:25:10,560
representation and like that first person like feeling of actually doing the move really

777
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:18,560
efficiently with how you actually do it is huge um and pretty crucial for like figuring out

778
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:25,520
complex sequences in a quick period of time like um like in the gym if we're learning a move right

779
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:32,480
you can have a phone out and like go watch and dig okay like i actually i didn't i didn't land my

780
01:25:32,480 --> 01:25:36,720
foot where i wanted to or like my hips were not moving with the trajectory i thought they were

781
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:42,160
going to be but in a comp you can't have that right there's no coaches or people that like help

782
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:48,960
you um so you need to have a really accurate mental representation so you can like get off the wall

783
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:55,520
after you fall or whatever and be like okay well i wanted to do this but really my hips were doing

784
01:25:55,520 --> 01:26:04,480
this and my hand wasn't accurate here and then you can kind of uh reassess try and get a better

785
01:26:04,480 --> 01:26:10,960
plan of action and then this goes back to like kind of the fundamentals of like getting into

786
01:26:10,960 --> 01:26:17,520
into flow states but uh you don't want to be like thinking super critically about like okay i want

787
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:23,280
my hand to go exactly here and pulling this hard on that like that's just too much to think about

788
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:30,480
and that's bringing your your brain and focus back into like that very executive stinking um side of

789
01:26:30,480 --> 01:26:35,600
things rather than that subconscious thing so if you're able to visualize it well like have that

790
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:40,640
goal visualize it two or three times in your head be like okay this is what it feels like to do this

791
01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:49,520
move efficiently then you take a deep breath smile let go of like that very specific um goal

792
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:55,520
and just have the intention to like move well and your body can take care of the rest and if you're

793
01:26:55,520 --> 01:27:00,480
good at that then you hop back on the wall and you're able to like execute and do it like you've

794
01:27:00,480 --> 01:27:08,720
already done the move you know um so in training like practicing aligning those two and repeating

795
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:16,480
climb the loft so your body is able to kind of execute moves at a subconscious level is

796
01:27:16,480 --> 01:27:24,000
super important and i guess the last thing i'll say there uh is like being okay like resetting

797
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:29,120
like that while you're on the wall is huge so i think your question about mindset before was like

798
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:35,360
in isoverse on the wall i wouldn't call it meditation when you're on the wall but finding

799
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:40,720
brief moments to like close your eyes and maybe do like a double inhale which has been proven to

800
01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:47,120
be like the best way to slow down your heart rate and kind of get into that super calm focused state

801
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:51,920
of mind and there's a lot more like scientific language around all of this than what i'm

802
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:58,080
describing now but i think it's easier to to understand just in a quick podcast format

803
01:27:58,080 --> 01:28:04,800
format um like that double inhale is is super important and that's like the basis of like my

804
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:11,040
whole breathing routine before the climbing um but also like on the wall if i can find

805
01:28:11,040 --> 01:28:16,480
a quick little stance or moment on a boulder just to reset close my eyes and

806
01:28:16,480 --> 01:28:29,200
it and then get back into it um i think that's that's huge yeah i uh tried that during the

807
01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:36,000
comp and it helped uh well i don't really know if it helped but it did calm me down a bit so

808
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:40,320
yeah that was uh that was a good tip i think everyone should try that out that's awesome

809
01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:49,360
yeah there's a cool podcast from humor man on the more nitty-gritty of why and how that's possible

810
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:54,720
it's like all of the avioli in your lungs are expanding more when you do that double inhale

811
01:28:54,720 --> 01:29:00,480
you actually do it like subconsciously like every five minutes in the show um and it like

812
01:29:00,480 --> 01:29:05,200
unsticks all of these little membranes in your lungs that process oxygen so you're able to

813
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:10,880
like literally process more oxygen which helps calm your body down because it's like oh i'm

814
01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:19,360
surviving i'm getting the air that i need to like think and breathe um so when you do that

815
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:26,880
consciously it does the same the same thing yeah okay awesome yeah i think uh everyone should

816
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:32,560
try it out see if it helps anytime you're doing something that is a little uncomfortable but yeah

817
01:29:32,560 --> 01:29:38,320
going into your non-climbing hobbies you've already mentioned that you do a lot of surfing

818
01:29:39,520 --> 01:29:46,080
um you also do like trad which is climbing but it's a very different uh form of it i feel like

819
01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:54,480
yeah um what have you well first of all are you ever like concerned about getting injured from

820
01:29:54,480 --> 01:30:00,000
these sports because i think i've heard from other like world cup competitors that uh they're either

821
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:06,240
they're either like not allowed to do outside sports for like concern about injury or they're

822
01:30:06,240 --> 01:30:10,720
just like not really interested because they don't want to get injured is that ever like a concern

823
01:30:10,720 --> 01:30:19,680
for you um not really i think that the concern is more around like just where my focus is and like

824
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:24,640
if my intention is to do really really well at a world cup like being honest with myself about like

825
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:30,400
if surfing like for five hours straight is going to help the training i'm supposed to do later that

826
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:39,520
day um but in general i think it's really healthy for me to like have these other creative outlets

827
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:46,480
and other opportunities to like kind of practice like the same routines that i'm bringing into like

828
01:30:46,480 --> 01:30:54,800
climbing like when we talk about flow like those habits and routines the same stuff that helps you

829
01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:59,520
get into like a flow state during a competition helps you to perform it like any other discipline

830
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:06,160
of life um so i'm not saying that i'm going out surfing like thinking about like training for

831
01:31:06,160 --> 01:31:13,120
climbing um but when a big wave comes and your heart rate increases like that's the same feeling

832
01:31:13,120 --> 01:31:20,160
like when you run out and there's a thousand people like all cheering and the music is crazy

833
01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:25,840
loud and the lights are flashing in your eyes you turn around and see like some absurd boulder

834
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:32,800
like that's they're a very similar feeling so when that huge set wave comes and like

835
01:31:33,760 --> 01:31:37,040
you gotta like slow your heart rate down like i'm doing the same double inhale

836
01:31:37,040 --> 01:31:43,200
long exhale and kind of visualizing myself paddling dropping it and like feeling really

837
01:31:43,200 --> 01:31:50,800
confident and like executing um so i think that helps with with climbing or like lots of other

838
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:58,400
forms of of life um and the same thing goes for like skiing or mountain biking

839
01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:07,120
mountain biking um or yeah like trad climbing like i was kind of describing earlier with the Hulk

840
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:16,400
um it's all just like a mind thing like if your body is able to do it it's just a question of

841
01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:22,640
like are you able to allow your body to do it like you gotta get out of your own way if that makes

842
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:31,040
sense like you practice so your body knows how to perform a certain task and then a lot of times

843
01:32:32,240 --> 01:32:36,960
in in moments of like high pressure the only reason you're not able to do that it's because

844
01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:43,760
you're thinking too much and you're kind of standing in your own way so like understanding

845
01:32:43,760 --> 01:32:52,000
that and then developing your own routines to uh get into that more focused concentrated place is

846
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:58,160
huge and so outside of i guess like the mindset part of it do you feel like there's anything

847
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:03,360
physical that you've learned from these other sports that you can bring into climbing

848
01:33:04,160 --> 01:33:09,920
yeah i mean i think a ton of like growing up we were always like going camping outside and just

849
01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:16,880
running around on like redwood trees and falling across rivers and stuff like that um and then a

850
01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:23,120
lot of skiing as well and like the balance aspect of that is is huge and like the proprioception

851
01:33:23,120 --> 01:33:29,200
that comes from like having to control your skis or if you're surfing like hopping up and like

852
01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:38,080
being able to move the board how you want to um same with like trail running or like rock hopping

853
01:33:38,080 --> 01:33:45,520
i feel like uh we'd always go to this one spot in in tahoe that has these rocks that are like just

854
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:52,320
poking up above the water and we would or like not we i would try and like run around between the

855
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:59,440
ball and like you start running and you like have the momentum where uh you like have to like jump

856
01:33:59,440 --> 01:34:03,920
to the next rock otherwise you're going to like fall in this like icy lake um and i feel like that

857
01:34:03,920 --> 01:34:09,440
was really fun to just get comfortable like committing to like kind of risky moves like that

858
01:34:09,440 --> 01:34:16,880
and um that kind of ties into another big flow trigger which is like the challenge skill ratio so

859
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:24,720
practicing at that sweet spot where it's difficult for you and like pushes you to like actually

860
01:34:24,720 --> 01:34:32,080
learn and execute at the best of your ability but isn't so hard that it's gonna discourage you from

861
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:37,040
like learning the move or whatever it is or it's like too much of a challenge for your body so

862
01:34:37,040 --> 01:34:43,440
they found that about like four percent is the the ideal spot to be at with whatever you're doing

863
01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:52,000
so like four percent harder or more uncomfortable than what you've done in the past or what you're

864
01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:57,440
comfortable with like in that exact moment so if you apply that like to a warm-up like if you

865
01:34:57,440 --> 01:35:05,600
haven't climbed hard yet that four percent increase is not that big like it's just like four

866
01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:10,240
like four percent above like v0 whatever that is you know but then once you're really warm then

867
01:35:10,240 --> 01:35:15,600
you have to like push up that challenge skill ratio so you can keep learning like at that edge

868
01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:22,560
and i think to make it a bit more climbing specific like before i was talking about like

869
01:35:23,120 --> 01:35:30,160
i warm up off the wall and then hop on v0 that v0 is not pushing that challenge skill ratio from

870
01:35:30,160 --> 01:35:34,800
like a physical standpoint right because i've done a bunch of hangboarding mobility like my

871
01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:41,040
body and mind are ready to like climb harder than v0 but by trying to do it really quickly

872
01:35:41,040 --> 01:35:45,840
and trying to be really accurate and flowy with the feet and coordinating your hands and generation

873
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:50,000
all at the same time now you're upping the challenge skill ratio where you're forcing

874
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:58,400
your body to like kind of rise to the occasion and perform at a higher level than just climbing it

875
01:35:58,400 --> 01:36:04,240
like super slow and controlled so you can make the challenge skill ratio hard for you and in

876
01:36:04,240 --> 01:36:10,320
different ways and even like this last week in the bay climbing on disgustingly greasy climbs

877
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:18,160
that were not set terribly well like i was doing that a lot with my friends sorry setters

878
01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:28,720
uh this does not go for yeah benchmark or mosaic or the boulder feels um wow this is just a touchstone

879
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:41,920
hate episode um you said it not me um no no um half joking but uh i think upping that challenge

880
01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:49,600
skill ratio in other ways is is super important um and then that like goes with anything you're

881
01:36:49,600 --> 01:36:55,120
learning like you have to be really like honest and maybe like let go of your ego a little bit

882
01:36:55,120 --> 01:37:00,880
to learn as quickly as you can like there's plenty of moves that i like have not learned and you'll

883
01:37:00,880 --> 01:37:06,240
get on your back wow like i need to like really take a step back and like let go of what i thought

884
01:37:06,240 --> 01:37:11,840
i was doing and like assess it from like the ground up okay what are like the fundamentals

885
01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:17,680
of this move the having like frameworks like what we taught um in the clinic like space time

886
01:37:17,680 --> 01:37:22,000
position and these other things that i'm not going to go into super deep right now because they're

887
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:30,560
just more nuanced coaching concepts that uh will share another podcaster coaching video take a mind

888
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:37,680
to motion clinic yeah it's a shameless plug um actually yeah we're doing a couple at the boulder

889
01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:42,000
field in the bay and then i'm going up to ben to teach a couple national clinics up there and then

890
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:49,360
i try and do a clinic in seattle as well so lots of fun upcoming coaching thing coaching things

891
01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:56,240
excuse me well this isn't coming out until probably a month but after that they can check i'll add the

892
01:37:56,240 --> 01:38:02,240
link to the website for sure for sure um but just being like realistic with yourself and being like

893
01:38:02,880 --> 01:38:09,840
have if i haven't done like a crazy lache to like a blocked crimp on a really bad foot like

894
01:38:10,720 --> 01:38:15,920
there's no way you're just gonna like all of a sudden be like superman and do that move you know

895
01:38:15,920 --> 01:38:21,600
you know so like really tone it down and that's a big part of our clinics is like adding those

896
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:29,600
progression holds so you can practice at a level that's makes sense for you um learn the move learn

897
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:33,760
like why it's efficient to like generate in a certain way or like what the end position is

898
01:38:34,320 --> 01:38:38,160
and then make it a little bit harder and make it a little bit harder make it a little bit harder

899
01:38:38,160 --> 01:38:46,480
um and then you get to like the harder variation and it's like feels super easy and so kind of

900
01:38:46,480 --> 01:38:51,200
like reverse engineering that and like doing the same thing in your warm-up is huge like getting on

901
01:38:51,200 --> 01:38:56,720
an easier climb doing it really well and then you bring that same like level of execution and flow

902
01:38:56,720 --> 01:39:05,680
and confidence to your harder climbs but for me that's really fun to to practice in other sports

903
01:39:05,680 --> 01:39:12,640
serve disciplines outside of climbing um and try and like push that challenge skill ratio

904
01:39:12,640 --> 01:39:19,360
quickly and like learn these new ways to like move and think um whether that's like skiing or

905
01:39:19,360 --> 01:39:25,120
surfing or whatever it is ping pong it's super fun as well ping pong might be like the most

906
01:39:25,680 --> 01:39:31,840
oh like flow-inducive thing that i do where like after like a couple games of warming up

907
01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:39,040
you're just like so locked in and having to like think and move so quickly really sorry you don't

908
01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:43,280
you're not thinking because like it's so quick that it has to just be so conscious so you're like oh

909
01:39:43,280 --> 01:39:48,560
you're just you're you're just playing and not even thinking about like how you're playing you just

910
01:39:48,560 --> 01:39:53,920
do how long have you been playing ping pong ping pong uh i mean i played a bunch like in high school

911
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:59,040
and i'm not like a competitive ping pong player or anything but uh sure and yeah that would be kind

912
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:04,720
of fun actually maybe we're gonna look into some san diego ping pong leagues but we had like a table

913
01:40:04,720 --> 01:40:10,000
at my high school and we had always just played during like lunch and in between classes and

914
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:17,520
and everything i feel like that's a good uh sport to get into that you don't have to be super

915
01:40:17,520 --> 01:40:22,160
well i don't know do you have to be super fit for ping pong it feels like a long-lasting sport

916
01:40:22,160 --> 01:40:29,760
i don't think so yeah maybe a good like wrist warm-up as well playing with your non-dominant

917
01:40:29,760 --> 01:40:35,760
hand too is really fun like i've been doing that a bunch recently and i've gotten so much better

918
01:40:35,760 --> 01:40:41,120
like i can play like decently well now with my left hand whereas like a couple years ago i like

919
01:40:41,120 --> 01:40:47,040
could hit it back on the right side of the table um so that's kind of a fun challenge or like brushing

920
01:40:47,040 --> 01:40:52,560
your teeth with your left hand or eating or like using chopsticks i've been doing that at like

921
01:40:53,840 --> 01:40:58,080
sushi oh my god sushi places recently like trying to just eat everything

922
01:40:58,080 --> 01:41:03,760
with my left hand and using the chopsticks makes you slow down wait what do you feel like that

923
01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:12,720
helps you with uh just like being better at like using your your other hand like i feel like people

924
01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:17,360
like for climbing right like there's no reason like i guess if you're you have to be really

925
01:41:17,360 --> 01:41:22,720
accurate with climbing and like grabbing holds and like being able to engage quickly or like

926
01:41:22,720 --> 01:41:28,640
articulate your hand in a certain way to like do whatever you're you're doing and so having like

927
01:41:29,200 --> 01:41:34,080
a more even like homunculus map in your head right i think is going to be really helpful

928
01:41:34,720 --> 01:41:40,560
if you think about the moves in a competition look at how many of the like skates or dinos go to the

929
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:46,160
right versus how when you go to the left and that's because all the setters are like the majority are

930
01:41:46,160 --> 01:41:51,440
like right-handed so it's more comfortable to go to the right and that started to change more

931
01:41:51,440 --> 01:41:59,200
recently but people are like climb better going the direction or like grabbing holds with their

932
01:41:59,200 --> 01:42:05,680
like most dominant hand so like trying to even that out is a place for everyone to improve it

933
01:42:05,680 --> 01:42:09,840
or if you think about like how comfortable and how accurate you can be like with your hands

934
01:42:09,840 --> 01:42:18,080
versus your feet like that's a huge thing that people can improve at with climbing like half of

935
01:42:18,080 --> 01:42:24,240
climbing maybe even more is like how well you can like move your feet and like get over your hips and

936
01:42:24,240 --> 01:42:31,440
like pull with your feet but we spend like zero time at least like on night like when i was

937
01:42:31,440 --> 01:42:38,880
learning to climb we didn't do a lot of like foot accuracy exercises or things like that so that was

938
01:42:38,880 --> 01:42:43,120
like part of the warm-up exercises i was showing everyone in that clinic that you did was like

939
01:42:43,120 --> 01:42:50,000
right warming up your your mind and feet to have that same level of like accuracy and confidence

940
01:42:50,640 --> 01:42:56,480
uh you can have with your hands so i guess you could start like brushing your teeth and eating

941
01:42:56,480 --> 01:43:02,640
sushi with your feet too with your feet yeah that's a good idea i went straight through that yeah

942
01:43:02,640 --> 01:43:12,240
um that's funny um one quick little tip around that is like another big flow trigger is just

943
01:43:12,240 --> 01:43:19,360
specific goals like you're never gonna get better or like learn something um if you don't have like

944
01:43:19,360 --> 01:43:23,680
a goal for what you're trying to do and the more specific you can be with that whether you're right

945
01:43:23,680 --> 01:43:27,520
or wrong like there's a bunch of studies that have shown like just making a hypothesis before

946
01:43:27,520 --> 01:43:32,400
you do something will help you learn what you're trying to learn regardless of whether you're

947
01:43:32,400 --> 01:43:39,280
hypothesis was right or wrong um so if you're doing a skate move or whatever it is like be

948
01:43:39,280 --> 01:43:46,240
really specific with where you want to have your foot land on the volume and then that'll help you

949
01:43:46,240 --> 01:43:53,040
like actually build those like motor neurons and like be able to like align like that mental

950
01:43:53,040 --> 01:44:00,160
representation as well as you can with that physical um with the physical move okay um so

951
01:44:00,160 --> 01:44:06,800
so yeah those were your i guess like sports non-climbing hobbies yeah i guess i played

952
01:44:06,800 --> 01:44:13,840
basketball a fair amount i just started swimming for like some more cardio stuff i was saying

953
01:44:14,640 --> 01:44:19,920
so like the last three days no every every other day um for the last six days so three days total

954
01:44:19,920 --> 01:44:25,360
i've swam like a half mile which is brutal but now it's feeling a lot more natural and

955
01:44:25,360 --> 01:44:33,600
and yeah it's definitely a really cool full body workout okay wow that's a lot so quick overview

956
01:44:33,600 --> 01:44:38,960
of all the sports videos just list all the ones that you're into right now okay i'd say

957
01:44:40,240 --> 01:44:46,560
in terms of like time spent right now it's swimming or you know not so we uh surfing and then

958
01:44:47,600 --> 01:44:53,360
uh probably swimming right now and then like skiing but it's summer so i haven't done that in a bit

959
01:44:53,360 --> 01:45:01,600
um and then like basketball and then ping pong at the gym or whatever and then i like biking

960
01:45:02,240 --> 01:45:05,360
a fair amount of that i've been trying to like do some road biking every now and then

961
01:45:05,920 --> 01:45:11,840
just because it's fun and another way to get your heart rate up um

962
01:45:13,760 --> 01:45:18,720
and then like mountain biking find back home in the bay or with somebody who has a good mountain

963
01:45:18,720 --> 01:45:26,000
bike wow wow it's a lot yeah outside of your sports hobbies um you also have a lot of like

964
01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:32,800
creative hobbies with your youtube channel and like photography as well um how do you fit youtube

965
01:45:32,800 --> 01:45:37,360
into your climbing and training and traveling schedule because it is it is a lot with all the

966
01:45:37,360 --> 01:45:46,320
things you like doing yes it is it is a lot um that having been i've definitely been a lot less

967
01:45:46,320 --> 01:45:52,160
consistent with and like at the beginning like the first season i was like on the world cup circuit

968
01:45:52,160 --> 01:45:57,360
with tim we're like oh like we should just do this youtube thing together and it'd be fun to just

969
01:45:57,360 --> 01:46:04,640
like kind of document like all these experiences and like the places we're going um and then

970
01:46:05,680 --> 01:46:10,480
yeah with like school and training and doing all these other hobbies it was kind of hard to be

971
01:46:10,480 --> 01:46:17,280
consistent with that so uh i would definitely like to be making higher quality content more

972
01:46:17,280 --> 01:46:23,120
consistently i feel like this year i'm finally in a place where i have the time because i'm like

973
01:46:23,120 --> 01:46:29,040
graduated from school um and have a bit more freedom like financially with you know sponsors

974
01:46:29,040 --> 01:46:35,520
and coaching and stuff like that to like do that at a higher level but it's still very difficult

975
01:46:35,520 --> 01:46:42,800
um and something i'm learning about and like doing uh or have just a lot to improve at like

976
01:46:42,800 --> 01:46:47,520
because right up until now like the vast majority of stuff on my channel it's like i've done the

977
01:46:47,520 --> 01:46:54,400
editing for which is tricky and like a whole other profession to learn you know and i'm like

978
01:46:54,400 --> 01:47:01,760
yeah anywhere close to being like a good video editor but it like works and i think well okay

979
01:47:01,760 --> 01:47:07,120
now it's kind of like the limiting factor is like how much time i can spend editing um so trying to

980
01:47:07,120 --> 01:47:16,400
work with like a more professional crew of people like so many edit that stuff um it has been a fun

981
01:47:16,400 --> 01:47:23,760
challenge and i've got a bunch of cool content coming out so uh i finally have a cool video

982
01:47:23,760 --> 01:47:31,840
from seco block in chicago last year that was like super super cool event um and like met

983
01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:36,000
chris charmer there and that ended up turning into like a trip to my orca which i also have a

984
01:47:36,000 --> 01:47:43,600
cool video about that may actually be out by the time this video comes out um i think and then a

985
01:47:43,600 --> 01:47:50,240
couple other trips like to yosemite like doing seven days straight of climbing in yosemite

986
01:47:50,240 --> 01:47:57,840
between like bouldering and trad climbing and big wall climbing and sport climbing and like

987
01:47:57,840 --> 01:48:05,280
single pitch trad um so that should be kind of a fun uh recap montage video of like just a week of

988
01:48:05,840 --> 01:48:11,840
trying a bunch of things there lots of time in the river yeah photography i guess began it's just

989
01:48:11,840 --> 01:48:17,440
like this really fun way to like capture moments from trips all over and like share those with

990
01:48:17,440 --> 01:48:24,320
friends and family and then it's just a cool creative outlet um like trying to look at

991
01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:30,160
different angles or different lighting or kind of capture different like feelings and shots and

992
01:48:30,720 --> 01:48:37,920
i definitely am and not a like my roommates are both like professional photographers and videographers

993
01:48:38,480 --> 01:48:42,880
and like looking at their work it's like oh my god like you're a true artist and i'm definitely

994
01:48:42,880 --> 01:48:49,600
not at that level but it is fun to like kind of share some of these images and things outside

995
01:48:49,600 --> 01:48:57,440
of the climbing world and i think it takes a bit of the like the edge off of like i'm not just a

996
01:48:57,440 --> 01:49:03,040
professional climber like i don't do well in a competition or whatever it's like not the end

997
01:49:03,040 --> 01:49:10,720
of the world even though i really want to but it just comes back to like that awareness of like

998
01:49:10,720 --> 01:49:14,560
i want to do this because i'm like really psyched and passionate about this

999
01:49:16,560 --> 01:49:23,360
and having those other things that you're like excited about doing i think helps to lead a more

1000
01:49:23,360 --> 01:49:30,000
balanced life yeah you don't you don't feel the pressure that this is like the only thing that

1001
01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:35,600
you can do and that it's still so you like have to perform because otherwise your life is over

1002
01:49:35,600 --> 01:49:40,880
yeah again it goes back to like framing it into like that positive like opportunity to like do

1003
01:49:40,880 --> 01:49:46,320
really well like i've trained and like i've been really passionate about this um so i want to like

1004
01:49:46,320 --> 01:49:52,720
perform well but i'm not bringing in all of this like the negativity of like oh i have to because

1005
01:49:53,440 --> 01:49:58,880
my dad says he really wants me to or like my coach is going to be sad if i don't or like

1006
01:49:58,880 --> 01:50:04,080
whatever it is you know i feel like a lot of people like actually have those kind of thoughts

1007
01:50:04,080 --> 01:50:09,440
going through their head and i was definitely fortunate to have like a very supportive crew

1008
01:50:09,440 --> 01:50:14,720
of people around me including like my family and coaches and all that yeah and then also like through

1009
01:50:14,720 --> 01:50:22,000
youtube you've kind of gotten yourself into like some coaching opportunities um do you have like a

1010
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:29,920
proudest coaching moment oh that's a good question um yeah i mean overall youtube just started off

1011
01:50:29,920 --> 01:50:33,840
as being like a really fun way to like share these moments but evolved into like a really cool way to

1012
01:50:33,840 --> 01:50:39,040
articulate my own processes at a higher level and like i feel like i learned a lot just by

1013
01:50:40,640 --> 01:50:49,040
trying to share tips and tricks along the way and then even just filming all like more of my sessions

1014
01:50:49,040 --> 01:50:54,320
was a really cool way to like go back and like actually learn and like connect that representation

1015
01:50:54,320 --> 01:50:59,280
of like what i thought i was doing with what i was actually doing for an actual coaching moment like

1016
01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:06,000
going over to to austria and coaching the youth national team there um last summer was really

1017
01:51:06,000 --> 01:51:12,560
was really cool i'm actually about to post a video from that trip um it's just like a travel montage

1018
01:51:12,560 --> 01:51:20,480
of like four weeks in europe and um i think the title will be something like training such like

1019
01:51:20,480 --> 01:51:28,480
staying fit while traveling uh and i it was a hard trip in that sense because we were just like moving

1020
01:51:28,480 --> 01:51:34,240
around and like just staying in a camper van that we rented and it was like tricky to like be

1021
01:51:34,240 --> 01:51:41,840
consistent with my my training and the ultimate takeaway was like just having a couple really

1022
01:51:43,120 --> 01:51:52,160
valuable like non-negotiables for each day is is huge um but the coaching in austria was amazing so

1023
01:51:52,160 --> 01:51:58,640
they had like their own training center there um and i spent like two days with this one there's like

1024
01:51:59,440 --> 01:52:06,720
uh it was in dormbrit but uh it was like their youth national team that like trains together

1025
01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:10,800
and they'll all go to like a sports school there so their coach can just take them out whenever to

1026
01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:16,240
like have training practices and everyone's kind of on the same schedule and yeah it was really

1027
01:52:16,240 --> 01:52:21,440
cool like to think about the like the training environment that they had created there that

1028
01:52:21,440 --> 01:52:28,160
their their coach max had created um was super super powerful and um you have a bunch of kids

1029
01:52:28,160 --> 01:52:33,200
that like different age levels and abilities that are all like working together and they get a really

1030
01:52:33,200 --> 01:52:38,400
collaborative like rich training environment so i think that's ultimately what all of our mind to

1031
01:52:38,400 --> 01:52:45,440
motion clinics are trying to like replicate as well um so that was that was pretty cool to work

1032
01:52:45,440 --> 01:52:54,720
with and then we did another uh mind to motion clinic where the main focus was just on breathing

1033
01:52:54,720 --> 01:52:59,840
and visualization those were like our two big takeaways that we wanted these kids to to walk

1034
01:52:59,840 --> 01:53:08,880
away with and at the very beginning we like asked everyone um or can we like explain these concepts

1035
01:53:08,880 --> 01:53:12,720
i mean like okay our goal is to like have you guys feel like really confident with these two things

1036
01:53:12,720 --> 01:53:17,360
like if you only two things you learned and you're like able to like tell your parents like hey like

1037
01:53:17,360 --> 01:53:24,000
this is what i learned like breathing like the double inhale specifically um and kind of the

1038
01:53:24,000 --> 01:53:28,160
the visualization aspect and hearing all the kids at the end of the clinic like there were a couple

1039
01:53:28,160 --> 01:53:32,400
times during the clinic when we like sat everyone down and i'm okay like what's one thing you've

1040
01:53:32,400 --> 01:53:38,240
like learned so far and like what's one thing we want to keep learning um like how how are you

1041
01:53:38,240 --> 01:53:42,720
going to implement this into your daily routine so you like actually feel confident enough to like

1042
01:53:42,720 --> 01:53:48,800
use it in a competition um hearing like 12 out of like the 15 people or whatever they're like oh

1043
01:53:48,800 --> 01:53:54,000
like the breathing techniques and like the mental kind of reframing was like so helpful and i'd like

1044
01:53:54,000 --> 01:53:59,760
i know i'm going to use that in the next competition that was a pretty cool moment um because like

1045
01:53:59,760 --> 01:54:04,480
that's what i would have wanted to learn when i was their age as well and i think that would have

1046
01:54:04,480 --> 01:54:09,920
helped me like so so much so that's yeah it's been a really rewarding way to like kind of connect with

1047
01:54:10,800 --> 01:54:19,280
uh climbers old and yeah yeah i kind of feel like teaching kids these like young kids these

1048
01:54:19,920 --> 01:54:28,160
techniques of like staying focused and in the moment is probably really helpful for them though

1049
01:54:28,160 --> 01:54:34,240
because i don't know kids can be kind of crazy with their emotions they definitely

1050
01:54:34,240 --> 01:54:43,280
uh yeah not always regulated yet so totally yeah it's a fun challenge i'm like how do you

1051
01:54:44,000 --> 01:54:51,040
synthesize like this pretty complex like process of like down regulating and getting into this like

1052
01:54:51,040 --> 01:54:54,800
state of transient hyperfrontality like how do you explain that to like a 10 year old

1053
01:54:56,560 --> 01:55:03,360
and that's like super rewarding when it when it works um and just like simplifying those goals

1054
01:55:03,360 --> 01:55:08,080
as much as possible like all right like every time every attempt like i want to like hear you

1055
01:55:08,080 --> 01:55:13,920
take a deep breath before you get on the wall and then allowing them to like feel the difference

1056
01:55:13,920 --> 01:55:18,880
and like you don't you're not trying to directly tell them like how to do anyone move but you're

1057
01:55:18,880 --> 01:55:24,560
kind of just giving them hints and then they have like that aha moment like oh my gosh like this is

1058
01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:29,120
how it works like oh it's like taking that deep breath like really makes a huge difference or like

1059
01:55:29,120 --> 01:55:34,000
just smiling it's like floods your brain with all these like positive neurochemicals that allow you

1060
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:42,400
to like climb better uh yeah so that's been fun for sure okay awesome i think that is a good place

1061
01:55:42,400 --> 01:55:50,240
to end those questions um real quick we'll go into some of the discord questions that came in um so

1062
01:55:50,240 --> 01:55:56,560
first one how do you effectively use skincare products like rhino skin repair performance and

1063
01:55:56,560 --> 01:56:02,720
or others for comp climbing and what should be the goal of filing your skin down i think i see that

1064
01:56:02,720 --> 01:56:07,680
you have rhino skin in the background so it's perfect oh yeah yeah that's right next to my bed

1065
01:56:07,680 --> 01:56:18,320
actually yeah i recognize it um i guess my my tip there is like having you need to have like a good

1066
01:56:18,320 --> 01:56:24,640
layer a healthy layer of skin before you like start drying it out a bunch so like you kind of

1067
01:56:24,640 --> 01:56:30,320
have to be thinking like a week or two ahead you know if you're going on a trip outside or

1068
01:56:30,320 --> 01:56:35,280
preparing for a comp or whatever um you want your skin to be very different for those two

1069
01:56:36,000 --> 01:56:43,360
situations yeah so i use like repair almost daily i think that's just a really good base

1070
01:56:43,360 --> 01:56:51,040
that like helps your skin stay healthy um and then performance um has a little bit of like

1071
01:56:51,040 --> 01:56:59,280
antihydrol in it or like the same active chemical as antihydrol uh and then dry is like a more

1072
01:56:59,280 --> 01:57:04,640
concentrated version of that so i'll use like performance sometimes like i don't know once a

1073
01:57:04,640 --> 01:57:13,680
week or whatever if i'm like in the same area um and then dry spray before competitions like it

1074
01:57:13,680 --> 01:57:19,920
takes a couple days to like activate i feel like uh or before going outside but it's really easy

1075
01:57:19,920 --> 01:57:26,640
to like have your skin be too hard and uh i was like surfing a bunch before this last week going

1076
01:57:26,640 --> 01:57:32,080
to the bay so my skin was like a little softer than normal so i put on a bunch of dry spray

1077
01:57:32,720 --> 01:57:38,160
and then i went to the bay which is like less humid than san diego because you're like in the

1078
01:57:38,160 --> 01:57:43,840
peninsula and not like quite as close to the water like i live like right next to the beach so my

1079
01:57:43,840 --> 01:57:49,440
skin is like it got used to like that level of humidity and then i put a bunch of dry spray on

1080
01:57:49,440 --> 01:57:54,960
and went to like a slightly drier area and my skin was like so hard and polished which should not

1081
01:57:54,960 --> 01:58:03,280
help with the greasy holds um and then yeah so like that's a situation where like filing your

1082
01:58:03,280 --> 01:58:09,600
skin can be helpful actually or definitely like filing the creases like where your finger bends

1083
01:58:10,640 --> 01:58:17,760
or i'll use like a razor blade to cut off any like excess skin in there or when i use dry spray i try

1084
01:58:17,760 --> 01:58:23,440
and like wipe like use a towel or my shirt or whatever to like wipe out the dry spray from

1085
01:58:23,440 --> 01:58:29,520
those creases so it doesn't get like just right in between the pads of my finger like super hard

1086
01:58:29,520 --> 01:58:36,320
because then it just like hurts when if like your whole hand is like leather it just makes it harder

1087
01:58:36,320 --> 01:58:41,280
to like bend your fingers i don't think i've quite gotten to that point but good to know

1088
01:58:41,280 --> 01:58:48,560
yeah so like filing down that or like using a razor blade or also like gua sha-ing it like

1089
01:58:48,560 --> 01:58:56,560
using one of these like little scraper tools and just like scraping your whole finger or like

1090
01:58:56,560 --> 01:59:03,920
just those joints to help them move a bit more fluidly and get the skin less leathery or even

1091
01:59:03,920 --> 01:59:09,120
like help flush out any scar tissue that's in the joints there is a good little tip

1092
01:59:09,120 --> 01:59:15,440
um yeah i think that kind of covers it for for skincare but just yeah if you're if your skin is

1093
01:59:15,440 --> 01:59:22,480
really soft adding dry spray or like these hardening agents it's gonna be a very temporary and like

1094
01:59:22,480 --> 01:59:28,240
bad fix because then you'll have like one or two layers of like really hard skin over a layer

1095
01:59:28,960 --> 01:59:35,040
of like soft icky skin and then you've got like just a couple attempts of like hard fiberglass

1096
01:59:35,040 --> 01:59:41,200
climbing before that skin layer is like gone and you're to like this soggy layer underneath

1097
01:59:42,240 --> 01:59:49,280
so it's like better to just be patient and like grow good skin and then have like your whole

1098
01:59:50,480 --> 01:59:57,760
the whole composite of it be like at the appropriate level of of hardness yeah i really

1099
01:59:57,760 --> 02:00:06,240
i really hate like the hard skin um i find that if that i climb better if my skin is not super dry

1100
02:00:07,280 --> 02:00:14,240
it's just like i don't know it sticks into the the holds better no i i agree for like indoor

1101
02:00:14,240 --> 02:00:19,040
climbing there's definitely why i guess it also depends like what style and like type of holds

1102
02:00:19,040 --> 02:00:25,440
you're climbing on like pure fiberglass you can get away with like having your skin like

1103
02:00:25,440 --> 02:00:32,880
you can get away with like having your skin a lot harder than like some other uh textured like types

1104
02:00:32,880 --> 02:00:39,360
of plastic and stuff like that makes sense um okay next question how do you incorporate climbing

1105
02:00:39,360 --> 02:00:48,480
outdoors into your training um any projects it's a good question yeah um lots of projects too many

1106
02:00:48,480 --> 02:00:53,600
projects i need to be more intentional with what i'm trying i actually i've been like relatively

1107
02:00:53,600 --> 02:01:01,920
good with that this year but uh i think depending on what you're training for again like having

1108
02:01:01,920 --> 02:01:08,720
specific goals but if you're training for like a comp uh outdoor climbing can be very conducive to

1109
02:01:08,720 --> 02:01:13,680
that if you are like okay i'm going to practice like executing and like flashing this boulder

1110
02:01:14,240 --> 02:01:20,080
and then again like bringing that challenge skill awareness to that like how hard can you actually

1111
02:01:20,080 --> 02:01:27,360
flash like trying to make it an appropriate level so you actually can do that um that's like for me

1112
02:01:27,360 --> 02:01:33,680
one of the most fun forms of climbing um it's like on-site being or like flashing boulders

1113
02:01:34,960 --> 02:01:41,840
or sport climbs for that matter but i just haven't done as much of that recently um but like in new

1114
02:01:41,840 --> 02:01:48,400
70 i was able to flash king air which is like this super cool pretty high ball a very high ball b10

1115
02:01:48,400 --> 02:01:55,360
um that dean potter first ascended and just like visualizing that and like again like the same

1116
02:01:55,360 --> 02:02:01,280
techniques as you'd bring to a comp but for an outdoor boulder um i like wrapped down it and just

1117
02:02:01,280 --> 02:02:06,000
like looked at the hold so i knew what i was like grabbing because like in a comp you would know

1118
02:02:06,000 --> 02:02:12,240
kind of what the holds are um but then like in that environment you don't have all this added

1119
02:02:12,240 --> 02:02:17,920
outside pressure and you can kind of try it on your own timetable so i spent like 45 minutes

1120
02:02:17,920 --> 02:02:23,200
at the base of this thing just like looking at it and getting into like the perfect hand space and

1121
02:02:23,200 --> 02:02:29,120
then i did it and it felt exactly how i like visualized it and imagined it to be and that

1122
02:02:29,120 --> 02:02:35,360
feeling was so so fun um where i got to the comp i was like oh my god i didn't even look down like

1123
02:02:35,360 --> 02:02:44,800
you're 25 plus feet up like doing like decently hard climbing um maybe yeah 25 is probably the

1124
02:02:44,800 --> 02:02:52,080
lift um and i was like i didn't even didn't look down wasn't aware at all of like anything but what

1125
02:02:52,080 --> 02:03:01,920
was right in front of me otherwise like i think it's valuable to like be able to like pull on

1126
02:03:01,920 --> 02:03:08,400
hard crimps and like kind of be comfortable and then comfortable in that sense um so even

1127
02:03:09,200 --> 02:03:14,560
like a couple years ago there was a training cycle that my buddy bopper and i did and actually in

1128
02:03:14,560 --> 02:03:21,760
rica who you were talking to um recommended where we trained like in the gym three days in the gym

1129
02:03:21,760 --> 02:03:27,680
one day um and then we did that for like four weeks straight and that was a really cool process

1130
02:03:27,680 --> 02:03:33,440
because it just got your like your mind so ready to like pull hard and like try hard and they kind

1131
02:03:33,440 --> 02:03:41,840
of trained the grit and like the the determination that just like not let go you know and then you

1132
02:03:41,840 --> 02:03:46,720
bring that same mindset to the gym and you're like way more comfortable like trying hard on

1133
02:03:47,280 --> 02:03:55,760
uncomfortable things awesome okay um this person wants to you know they're a big fan of the uncut

1134
02:03:55,760 --> 02:04:03,760
block series on youtube um and they want to know any memorable moments from your early years climbing

1135
02:04:03,760 --> 02:04:12,640
in the bay and favorite gyms in the bay which you clearly have some very strong opinions on um

1136
02:04:13,360 --> 02:04:19,040
yeah you should just go to the bowling field if you're anywhere remotely close i mean growing up

1137
02:04:19,040 --> 02:04:23,680
in in the bay it was a really cool like environment because we like had that really strong

1138
02:04:24,240 --> 02:04:30,720
team and um some really good coaches that were like talking about a lot of the things i've talked

1139
02:04:30,720 --> 02:04:37,200
about like on this podcast and just thinking about more than how strong your fingers are and

1140
02:04:37,200 --> 02:04:45,760
how many one arm pull-ups you can do you know um i mean planet credit uh san francisco i guess

1141
02:04:45,760 --> 02:04:50,800
it's the movement sf now right in the procedio like right underneath the golden gate bridge is

1142
02:04:50,800 --> 02:04:57,440
always a pretty cool venue and i remember doing like a training day there with my whole team where

1143
02:04:57,440 --> 02:05:02,320
we like ran across the golden gate bridge like from the gym we like started raced all the way

1144
02:05:02,320 --> 02:05:07,680
up across the golden gate bridge and back to the gym and that was like the start of our practice

1145
02:05:08,720 --> 02:05:15,040
and i remember getting back and throwing up because i was trying to beat this one kid i didn't

1146
02:05:15,040 --> 02:05:19,200
i wasn't very good at running that's the only time i've ever actually thrown up from training

1147
02:05:19,200 --> 02:05:29,760
um so yeah don't don't do that but uh um yeah that was uh just like a cool gym and like

1148
02:05:30,800 --> 02:05:37,520
pretty pretty unique walls at the time now they're definitely a bit dated but uh um just a cool

1149
02:05:37,520 --> 02:05:42,560
environment to be in be able to like look at the golden gate bridge and the whole bay area there

1150
02:05:42,560 --> 02:05:51,920
um oh sessions in santa rosa kevin jorgensen's gym is also quite good so if you're in the bay area

1151
02:05:51,920 --> 02:05:56,640
like berkeley or something like that that could be worth going to mosaic is really nice as well

1152
02:05:57,520 --> 02:06:02,720
that's newer and pretty small but right in berkeley but they always have a couple good

1153
02:06:02,720 --> 02:06:09,360
comp climbs and then benchmark is also pretty nice not as much like comfy stuff but they've

1154
02:06:09,360 --> 02:06:14,800
got a really nice spray wall that like keenan and katie train on a lot that's definitely like

1155
02:06:14,800 --> 02:06:21,760
the best spray wall in the bay area like outdoor style like hard crimp bain spray wall

1156
02:06:23,040 --> 02:06:28,000
um but there's really not a lot of like good comp climbs like

1157
02:06:30,800 --> 02:06:35,040
like 10 good comp climbs i would say in the whole area at any given moment

1158
02:06:35,040 --> 02:06:40,960
wow okay i mean that's like with a pretty harsh standard but uh do you feel like it's a lot better

1159
02:06:40,960 --> 02:06:48,320
here in san diego yeah well yeah grotto has a good bit i don't think i see as much in mesa rim but

1160
02:06:48,320 --> 02:06:55,120
yeah it kind of depends mesa used to have like some of the best setting and then some of the

1161
02:06:55,120 --> 02:06:59,760
setters left and like when other places but on the ropes front i think they still have some of the

1162
02:06:59,760 --> 02:07:08,480
best climbs like best some of the best commercial set rope climbs in the nation for sure um so yeah

1163
02:07:09,200 --> 02:07:15,520
props props to that um north city usually has some pretty nice boulders as well

1164
02:07:16,160 --> 02:07:22,480
oh right it's just a little far but yeah at that point we have like our own space at the wall which

1165
02:07:22,480 --> 02:07:27,920
is a really tiny old gym but then i'll build out a whole backspace like a training zone there so

1166
02:07:27,920 --> 02:07:34,160
we can just set whatever we want and get a bit more experimental with movement and then he has like

1167
02:07:34,160 --> 02:07:39,120
the most heinous spray wall i've like ever climbed on where like every move you just have to like

1168
02:07:40,480 --> 02:07:47,200
be very intentional with like the position and how you're like holding the holds and using your feet

1169
02:07:47,200 --> 02:07:57,200
and everything like that okay um another question and then i think we might have time for one more

1170
02:07:57,200 --> 02:08:05,280
depending on how fast your answer is um favorite non-us competitors or teams to train with well um

1171
02:08:07,440 --> 02:08:13,120
yeah i mean there's a lot of really cool teams to trade with um i've climbed with like the french

1172
02:08:13,120 --> 02:08:19,280
team quite a bit um and they're like training center in roul definitely seeing that wrong

1173
02:08:19,280 --> 02:08:28,240
but uh it's like near grenoble near grenoble in in france is really cool um and they're like

1174
02:08:28,240 --> 02:08:35,360
setting is probably some of the best best overall like or highest average like setting of any nation

1175
02:08:35,360 --> 02:08:42,400
i've been to um and overall like europe like the centers are just like so so good um i feel like

1176
02:08:42,400 --> 02:08:47,600
they just treat it like an art form and there's a yeah good amount of centers in the u.s that are

1177
02:08:47,600 --> 02:08:52,960
like that as well but overall there's just like a much deeper like connection and like pride that

1178
02:08:52,960 --> 02:08:58,880
comes with like setting and like actually learning and getting better and like testing new types of

1179
02:08:58,880 --> 02:09:04,000
movement and stuff like that and i think that's like because the gyms value that more like maybe

1180
02:09:04,000 --> 02:09:10,400
in the u.s it's a bit it's definitely like way more commercialized and they don't care about like

1181
02:09:10,400 --> 02:09:17,680
like paying the setters enough to like actually have time to like set good boulders or like

1182
02:09:17,680 --> 02:09:28,080
it's just like a a machine rather than creating really cool climbs um yeah so french team is cool

1183
02:09:28,080 --> 02:09:34,640
like the japanese team is really crazy just to watch and climb with as well um i mean really

1184
02:09:34,640 --> 02:09:39,120
like all the teams austrians have a lot of cool trading zones like i've spent a lot of time in

1185
02:09:39,120 --> 02:09:46,320
edsbrook trading at ki um their ropes are yeah best best rope climbs like in the world probably

1186
02:09:46,320 --> 02:09:55,840
at ki um the boulders are a bit not as consistent i would say um at least if you're not climbing on

1187
02:09:55,840 --> 02:10:01,600
like the world cup boulders that are set like specifically for the national team um

1188
02:10:01,600 --> 02:10:12,800
um was in belgium for a comp there that was super cool um very high level of setting as well um the

1189
02:10:12,800 --> 02:10:16,720
italian team is like they're all i don't want to and now i gotta name all the countries so i don't

1190
02:10:16,720 --> 02:10:24,400
leave anyone out yeah exactly the swiss team super fun got some friends there the brits haven't

1191
02:10:24,400 --> 02:10:33,840
been to the uk yet but uh fun to trade with those boys yeah everyone germany you got some fun some

1192
02:10:33,840 --> 02:10:40,960
fun clouds hit pretty much most of them all right yeah actually you didn't mention slavonia oh yeah

1193
02:10:40,960 --> 02:10:46,880
so lady is super cool that was like one of my most favorite comps was actually the the one in

1194
02:10:46,880 --> 02:10:53,120
lubliana right like in the center of town like they built this huge wall it felt like it was like the

1195
02:10:53,120 --> 02:10:58,320
most hype comp i've been to where it started at like 10 the finals did they had like a dj playing

1196
02:10:58,320 --> 02:11:05,520
like crazy loud like house tech music and then like big steam cannons that like went off as you

1197
02:11:05,520 --> 02:11:12,560
like ran out of iso and the like mascot of the city was like this huge dinosaur so like at sports

1198
02:11:12,560 --> 02:11:16,560
games you know how they have like the mascot person running around that guy was like on the

1199
02:11:16,560 --> 02:11:23,360
pad just like giving you high fives and yeah i was a pretty hyped crowd yeah sorry if i left

1200
02:11:23,360 --> 02:11:28,400
your country off the list chile brazil it's hard to name all of the countries yeah

1201
02:11:30,000 --> 02:11:40,160
understandable all i can edit in you saying all of them maybe perfect perfect okay quick we'll

1202
02:11:40,160 --> 02:11:47,760
just try to do one more uh trying to find a good one um how's the dynamic in the u.s national team

1203
02:11:47,760 --> 02:11:52,560
between the guys is it more competitive or supportive uh that's a very good question

1204
02:11:53,920 --> 02:11:59,120
i mean overall yeah it's very supportive like i it's a super fun career people who like travel

1205
02:11:59,120 --> 02:12:11,600
and and climb and train with um i think it's maybe more like individualized than it could be

1206
02:12:12,480 --> 02:12:18,880
i mean that's like i'm sure that's true like high level sports like kind of anywhere but i think

1207
02:12:20,000 --> 02:12:23,920
there's a lot to learn from one another and i don't feel like that's always

1208
02:12:23,920 --> 02:12:31,840
maximized in terms of like learning what like if you make a mistake and it like you figured out

1209
02:12:31,840 --> 02:12:36,160
a really good solution to it like i want to know about that and like i think we could have more

1210
02:12:36,160 --> 02:12:41,920
conversations around that and that's something i'd like try just to like ask people about and

1211
02:12:41,920 --> 02:12:46,560
like start those conversations but overall yeah it's a super group good career people and

1212
02:12:46,560 --> 02:12:53,120
very fun to go travel to these new places and go explore these zones with everyone yeah i mean you

1213
02:12:53,120 --> 02:13:00,480
i guess you don't um live in utah so you're not always training with them um do you feel like

1214
02:13:00,480 --> 02:13:05,120
that makes it kind of hard i did live there for like three years but for like two years i guess

1215
02:13:05,120 --> 02:13:12,960
i mean there's not of the national team i guess like we didn't train together as much as i thought

1216
02:13:12,960 --> 02:13:18,800
everyone would in utah and that kind of is the same same thing i was just talking about we're like

1217
02:13:21,040 --> 02:13:25,760
uh actually like in san diego i i learned more because it's like a more collaborative

1218
02:13:25,760 --> 02:13:34,400
environment like that and but yeah that's like a very big generalization but uh i think it's

1219
02:13:34,400 --> 02:13:38,720
it's really fun to go back and like have those like super rich training environments in salt lake

1220
02:13:38,720 --> 02:13:46,080
where you have like when you can organize everyone uh it's like the best but because there's like so

1221
02:13:46,080 --> 02:13:50,160
many gyms and so many people doing like so many things it's sometimes hard to like actually

1222
02:13:50,160 --> 02:13:57,600
capitalize on like all of that energy and all of that like talent in that one zone whereas like

1223
02:13:57,600 --> 02:14:03,360
the japanese or like french teams are like required by like their federations to like live in the same

1224
02:14:03,360 --> 02:14:10,320
zone and they're paid some of them to like climb and like be a part of like the national team

1225
02:14:11,120 --> 02:14:17,600
so they like move to a training center there's like two main training centers one i mentioned

1226
02:14:17,600 --> 02:14:23,200
like near granada and one in uh font and then everyone like trains there and like you're just

1227
02:14:23,200 --> 02:14:29,360
constantly in this like super rich learning environment with like yeah all your teammates

1228
02:14:29,360 --> 02:14:34,240
yeah i didn't know they did that uh well i guess i thought in japan they're also kind of pretty like

1229
02:14:34,240 --> 02:14:40,400
individualized and spread out yeah maybe i'm wrong about japan but i thought they definitely like

1230
02:14:40,400 --> 02:14:48,080
train as it grew more i mean and to be fair like the u.s has gotten like way better uh with that

1231
02:14:48,080 --> 02:14:53,600
and like having the training center in salt lake is like a massive step because there is just like a

1232
02:14:53,600 --> 02:14:58,720
central zone for everyone to climb up but i mean just having the usb so big it's like it's hard to

1233
02:14:58,720 --> 02:15:04,880
have everyone be in the same place and uh but yeah it's been really cool to have like national team

1234
02:15:04,880 --> 02:15:11,520
training camps at the tc and like have more coaches and more setting and all of that uh all those

1235
02:15:11,520 --> 02:15:18,240
resources cool um that's probably all the questions we should go through for today um yeah thanks for

1236
02:15:18,240 --> 02:15:25,600
joining me um is there anything you want to shout out or like last words or let people know where

1237
02:15:25,600 --> 02:15:32,880
they can find you yeah uh i guess my instagram and youtube are just ross fokerson i always love

1238
02:15:32,880 --> 02:15:38,400
hearing from people like you've got suggestions for videos or other things that you've uh like

1239
02:15:38,400 --> 02:15:44,400
seeing i've always liked to hear about that and i uh whenever anyone like comes up in the gym or

1240
02:15:44,400 --> 02:15:49,760
whatever i always try and ask like what are your like what would you want to see more of like

1241
02:15:50,400 --> 02:15:54,960
in the youtube videos or like what's the most like helpful piece in terms of like coaching or stuff

1242
02:15:54,960 --> 02:16:01,760
like that um so it's always just fun to hear from from fans in that regard um don't be afraid to

1243
02:16:01,760 --> 02:16:10,000
come up and say hi unless i'm super focused um unless i'm doing my my double inhale breath work

1244
02:16:10,000 --> 02:16:18,320
no i'm joking uh yeah but overall i just i think uh just building that awareness on the wall is

1245
02:16:18,320 --> 02:16:23,280
is huge like everything all the coaching little tips and things we talked about today like you

1246
02:16:23,280 --> 02:16:30,160
have to be like intentional with that and like actually uh want to like get better at something

1247
02:16:30,160 --> 02:16:35,200
so if you're wanting like have a have a goal have something want to improve that and then just be

1248
02:16:35,200 --> 02:16:43,440
aware of like how you're climbing and uh then when you hear a tip or like someone tells you like how

1249
02:16:43,440 --> 02:16:48,080
to actually climb better like implement some certain thing like you have the awareness to

1250
02:16:48,080 --> 02:16:57,760
actually do that well um so yeah i would encourage everyone just to to take that kind of like

1251
02:16:57,760 --> 02:17:03,920
learning approach to climbing if they find it fun like you don't have to like always be like training

1252
02:17:03,920 --> 02:17:10,400
and getting better but uh it's a cool way to like keep things really engaging and you'd be surprised

1253
02:17:10,400 --> 02:17:17,440
like how quickly you can progress if you actually just make those goals and like try to get better

1254
02:17:17,920 --> 02:17:25,040
awesome tips and uh great great advice to end on um yeah thank you for sharing that with us

1255
02:17:25,040 --> 02:17:31,840
to end on um yeah thank you again uh good luck in your future world cups this year we'll be

1256
02:17:31,840 --> 02:17:37,440
waiting for you and it was amazing to talk to you likewise i really enjoyed being on and uh

1257
02:17:37,440 --> 02:17:41,920
hopefully we do a second one later down the line or something gosh yeah you have a i'm sure you

1258
02:17:41,920 --> 02:17:47,040
have a lot more to say i have a lot more to ask that i didn't even get through yeah yeah maybe

1259
02:17:47,040 --> 02:17:51,440
leave a comment on this podcast or one of my youtube videos for other questions you'd want

1260
02:17:51,440 --> 02:17:58,240
answered in the second episode yeah definitely oh and for like all my coaching stuff uh either on

1261
02:17:58,240 --> 02:18:05,760
mind to motion or uh sometime in the relatively near future i'm gonna try and release my own

1262
02:18:06,640 --> 02:18:14,000
uh like online coaching modules so stay tuned for that okay awesome yeah and i'll link all of it in

1263
02:18:14,000 --> 02:18:22,000
the description or yeah description boxes and etc oh awesome thank you awesome have a good rest

1264
02:18:22,000 --> 02:18:27,200
your day thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast don't forget to like and

1265
02:18:27,200 --> 02:18:33,440
subscribe if you enjoyed otherwise you are a super fake climber if you're listening on a podcasting

1266
02:18:33,440 --> 02:18:39,200
platform i'd appreciate if you rated five stars and you can continue the discussion on the free

1267
02:18:39,200 --> 02:18:52,080
competition climbing discord linked in the description thanks again for listening