1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,600 push her hard. If you reach a ceiling, then we know that she can't work that hard. And 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:10,000 if she doesn't reach the ceiling, then we know that she can work harder. It's been sort of like 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:17,760 seven to nine hour days, six days a week. I either want to change the way that I view 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:22,240 competition climbing or I don't want to do it anymore. I just want to 5 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:28,240 climb my best and be at my strongest. If I do, hopefully go to the Paris Olympics. 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:35,040 Welcome to the season two finale of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast. I'm your host, Jinni, 7 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:40,960 and I'm excited to introduce my guest, Erin McNeice. Erin is a boulder and lead climber from 8 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:47,840 Team GB, who has been having a stellar 2024 season so far, making finals for boulder and Keqiao, 9 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:54,080 lead in Wujiang, and getting bronze in Shanghai OQS. In this episode, we'll get some insight into 10 00:00:54,080 --> 00:01:00,880 how she seemed to rise out of nowhere, her brutal offseason training, we'll learn a bit about Team GB, 11 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:06,640 and stay for the end to hear about where the Erin McBeast nickname came from. This is her 12 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:12,160 first long form interview, so please send her some love and well wishes for the next OQS event in 13 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:26,080 Budapest. Hope you enjoy this episode with Erin. I guess we'll just start with how you're doing 14 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:33,680 today. Did you do any training today? I'm doing well. I did a bit of training today about 15 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:41,520 I'm sort of having a deload after Shanghai, so focused on recovery at the moment. So it's 16 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:48,160 been pretty relaxing. Yeah, that makes sense. So not getting ready for Budapest yet. I've had a few 17 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:57,920 intense days, but I've got quite a lot of focus sessions coming up. So I've got like a GB training 18 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:03,600 weekend, which will be focused on really hard boulders, and then I'm heading out to Innsbruck. 19 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:11,600 So focused on hard leads. So I think that'll be my prep. So I've got a bit of time to relax now. 20 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:18,000 Okay, that's good. That's good. Glad to hear. Are you happy with your position right now going into 21 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:25,760 Budapest? Yeah, pretty happy. I think I couldn't have really done much more. And I think I put 22 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:33,760 myself in quite a good position for Budapest. Obviously, the job's only half done, but yeah, 23 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:41,280 the points are looking quite positive at the moment. Yeah, I mean, congrats on your performance 24 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:47,040 in Shanghai. It was really cool to see, and I'm glad that we get to talk about it today. Thanks. 25 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:53,760 So we'll just get right into it. When and where did you start climbing? I guess when I first 26 00:02:53,760 --> 00:03:06,400 started climbing was when I was five. My parents took me to a wall. It's called Revolution. I 27 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:14,960 actually don't know where it is. It's sort of near London, I think. It was like a climbing wall, 28 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:22,480 a one-half, and then a skateboard park. Oh, okay. Yeah. So I went to do both, and one of them was 29 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:33,120 climbing, obviously. Yeah, it was quite uneventful, really. I joined a club and I went there weekly, 30 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:42,560 and I just did it for fun for the next eight years. Oh, okay. So the whole time was at the 31 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:54,160 climbing skate park gym? I think predominantly until I was about maybe 10, nine or 10, and then 32 00:03:54,160 --> 00:04:08,880 we moved and then I joined a similar club. And it was just fun, really. And I was six years old 33 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:15,120 and under 13, so I think I just enjoyed the fact that I could climb with 12-year-olds who, at that 34 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,840 point, I thought were big kids and I just liked that I could keep up with them. Yeah, I mean, 35 00:04:19,840 --> 00:04:26,640 if you were six and they were 12, they are pretty big kids. I remember how that feels like. So the 36 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:33,200 skate park part didn't appeal to you. Now, I remember liking skateboarding a lot more than 37 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:42,320 I liked climbing at that point. It's quite cool, skateboarding. I just liked it for the novelty of 38 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:48,720 it being skateboarding. Okay. Do you still skateboard ever? I haven't skateboarded in a long 39 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:56,320 time, but I did sort of carried it on as I got older, but climbing sort of took over. How did you 40 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:03,920 make that switch from doing it, doing just climbing for fun and actually preferring skateboarding to 41 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:16,720 getting more into the climbing portion? So I joined this competition squad. The reach, and then I was 42 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:25,520 there for a bit and I started doing Blockfest, which is like a regional competition series in 43 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:30,960 the UK just for fun because everybody else in the reach squad wanted to do it. So I sort of joined in 44 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:39,520 and that was just, it didn't really feel like a competition. It just sort of felt like a day out 45 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:47,200 with my friends, like having fun. And through Blockfest, I heard about national competitions 46 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:53,280 and the guy that was telling me about it was really emphasizing that it was a massive step 47 00:05:53,280 --> 00:06:00,480 up from regional competitions. And it was like really official and like kids going who were 48 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:09,600 practically professionals. So I was like, okay, I'll go and try this. And it was definitely, 49 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:15,840 he wasn't exaggerating. It was definitely a step up. And my first national, I think I came 50 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:27,520 14th in my age category, which wasn't too bad, but definitely it felt so different. That's the 51 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:35,040 first time I saw the GB team and all the people my age who were like in GB kit and working together. 52 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:43,040 And that's sort of the first time that I thought I had the thought of wanting to do it and wanting 53 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:48,880 to be one of those kids who is basically a professional at the age of like 13. 54 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:54,240 So I guess at the time at those competitions, were they already kind of setting like 55 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,480 a low percentage comp style moves or was it different? 56 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:04,320 And it was pretty different. I think I remember it being quite like 57 00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:11,840 crimpy and there was only there were like eight qualification blocks and only one of them had a 58 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:19,840 jump and the rest were like, yeah, pretty crimpy and quite like on really small overhangs 59 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:27,120 and quite technical. But I watched the finals, I stayed and watched the finals and they were 60 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:37,360 like very much showy and jumpy. And yeah, it was fresh. And like all of the six finalists were all 61 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:44,720 in the GB team and they were just so sort of like went and executed every one of the finals blocks 62 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:50,400 and I just remember thinking like that was like beyond anything I could have done. 63 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,680 So I was so amazed that there are people my age who were able to go and execute those kinds of 64 00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:03,440 moves straight away. Sounds kind of intimidating. Did you kind of feel that way at your first comp? 65 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:10,400 Yeah, definitely. I think you don't really think that there are people, 66 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,200 when you're that age, you don't really think that there are people your age doing that. 67 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:21,120 And to see it, to see this group of people working together to solve a problem and then 68 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:27,760 competing against each other at that higher level is definitely eye opening. And 69 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:36,880 then think of my second national. And my second national I made finals. I don't know how I was 70 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:44,320 incredibly shocked. But then to be competing alongside those kinds of people was, yeah, 71 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:50,400 it's pretty crazy. Well, it's really cool that even though you were like intimidated at that 72 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:58,480 first nationals, you kind of still felt that inkling of wanting to do this more full time 73 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:05,440 or like become a professional in a way. I feel like I could never do that. So that's cool to hear. 74 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:12,720 And so your parents didn't have any like climbing background as well. 75 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:23,520 Oh, my dad used to do it in university. He was in the English gymnastics team when he was younger 76 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:33,280 for a bit. And then he'd sort of... Yeah, I used to get him to do like tricks when I had my friends 77 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:39,440 around to try and impress them. But he wasn't a climber, but he just did it for fun. So he took 78 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:46,640 us with him. Okay, cool. Can he still do any tricks nowadays? I reckon he probably could. 79 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:52,160 He's not... I haven't gotten to do it in a while, but I'm sure he could if I put the pressure off. 80 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:59,760 Okay, cool. So do you feel like his gymnastics background and maybe like slight climbing 81 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:06,320 background helped you at all when you were young and improving? I think it definitely helped that 82 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:13,920 he had an athletic background because he got me involved in a lot of sports. Climbing wasn't the 83 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:22,560 only one by far. It was one of so many, like I said, skateboarding and triathlon, so like swimming 84 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:29,840 and cycling as well and surfing. And like I had so many options, which I think really helped 85 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:36,080 because by the time I started getting properly into climbing, I was so confident in my ability 86 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:44,560 in sports in general that I sort of felt less intimidated in this sporting environment, I guess. 87 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:50,240 Did he ever put you through any training or like put together plans for you? 88 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:58,160 I guess it always was... If it was training, it was always fun, like challenges. I guess 89 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:04,960 it was sort of a way to just trick me into training by giving me challenges because I was stubborn 90 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:11,360 enough to get involved. But definitely now he's really involved in my training and picks up on 91 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:19,200 really niche things that I need to work on that's definitely helped. He's been really involved in 92 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:26,240 like random weird exercises this off season that have improved tiny little things that I haven't 93 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:36,080 noticed. Okay. Do you have any examples of that? Yeah. One of them was like power in my legs, but 94 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:45,360 not power in the first part of a jump, like power in your ankles at the end. And he came up with 95 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:52,720 loads of exercises to increase that last like little bit of a jump. And it's made like a massive... 96 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:58,640 I think it was the main reason I made World Cup finals, Boulder World Cup finals, because I 97 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:05,120 wouldn't have been able to do that jump without the like pop of my ankles. So yes, it's made a 98 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:12,240 massive difference. Okay. So what are you supposed to work on? Because I could probably use some help 99 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:21,840 with that as well. It's just sort of like focusing on... He's given me loads of like jumping exercises 100 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:26,560 except that you aren't really allowed to bend your legs. So all of the jump comes from the ankles. 101 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:32,880 Okay. I've actually seen that as like a trend on TikTok where you're supposed to try to jump as 102 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:40,160 high as you can without bending your knees. Is that a helpful exercise? Yeah, so I've seen that as 103 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:47,360 well. Yeah. You don't look the... I mean, it's not the most... You don't look like an athlete when 104 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:54,240 you do it, but I promise it really helps. Okay. So then I assume you're really good at that one? 105 00:12:55,040 --> 00:13:01,280 Yeah. There's always room for improvement, but I'm okay. I might ask to see a video of it if I end 106 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:07,760 up creating a short or a reel of that later. And then I'll try it as well. So it's not just you. 107 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:17,360 No. Okay. Cool. So you had just sort of more recently come into the worldwide scene where 108 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:23,440 you made finals. So people are kind of starting to become more familiar with what your climbing is 109 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:33,040 like. But yeah, we haven't seen too much yet. And you've also done like a pretty good mix of both 110 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:40,160 boulder and lead comps, and it looks like you're kind of equally strong in both. So which one is 111 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:50,240 your preference? Probably bouldering, just because I think I'm more confident in bouldering. I've been 112 00:13:51,520 --> 00:14:00,000 focusing on it more, I think, for longer, but definitely still enjoy lead. And I've worked 113 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,880 really hard on it over the last year, and I think I've gotten, well, I've definitely gotten a lot 114 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:12,800 better. So I have started enjoying it more since I've gotten more confident at it and more 115 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:19,200 comfortable as well. But yeah, boulder probably. Yeah. I mean, I didn't know you had a strong 116 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:25,360 preference for it at all because you seem to be doing both quite well. It's like really not obvious 117 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:35,200 which one you feel stronger at. So that's cool. And then in terms of characterizing your climbing, 118 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:42,560 I think a similar thing, like with a lot of people, it's easier to tell if there are certain moves 119 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:51,680 they're more comfortable with or what their strengths and skill sets lie. But yeah, how do 120 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:56,640 you characterize your climbing? Yeah, I don't think that there's anything that I'm 121 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:05,360 like, that I would say is a weakness. But I also don't think there's anything that stands 122 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:11,280 out massively as a strength. I think I'm pretty okay at everything. 123 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,680 That's a strength in a way. Yeah, definitely. I never come out to a climb and 124 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:26,240 I'm worried about it, which is good. But I also never come out to a climb thinking I've 100% got 125 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:34,560 it. There are definitely climbs where I look forward to it. I really enjoy jumps and coordination 126 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:41,920 moves. So if I see one of those, I'm always excited to get on it. But I think slabs probably 127 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:50,000 definitely used to be a weakness. And I've worked really hard on that over the last off season. 128 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:55,680 So it's not so much of a weakness anymore. Yeah, I think you also mentioned earlier that 129 00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:03,280 you'll be going to Innsbruck to train for LEAD specifically. Do you feel like for things like 130 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:10,080 LEAD and slabs, there's not as much experience that you can gain in the UK? Yeah, I think there's 131 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:19,520 quite a lot of things in the UK that I've struggled to get on. LEAD is probably the main thing. 132 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:27,280 I've managed to do it over the off season, but that's mainly because I've been focusing on my 133 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:37,360 base. So I don't necessarily need really hard climbs. But now, especially after the last OQS, 134 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:42,240 I wanted to get on 8Cs and stuff to feel more comfortable on those because I'm pretty 135 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:50,400 comfortable on anything up to 8B plus. And you just don't get 8Cs in the UK. And for slabs, 136 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:57,360 sort of the same. You don't really get slabs in the UK. I have pretty hard to find actual slabs 137 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:04,000 that aren't there in the UK. So yeah, going abroad for that is also quite important. 138 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:12,240 Do you have a favorite place that you've trained slabs? Any depot wall in the UK will always have 139 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:22,640 a slab. So you can go there and be sure that you'll get onto a slab. And Boulder UK in Preston also 140 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:31,840 is very good for slabs. I think most of the walls are slabs or a vert wall, which is really helpful 141 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:36,880 for more training. I was going to talk about the GB climbing team a bit later, but 142 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:48,400 this is kind of a better segue into it. Do you guys have a training team or a training facility, 143 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:53,680 or do you just kind of go around to whatever gyms are near you? Yeah, at the moment, it's, 144 00:17:53,680 --> 00:18:02,560 we go around to gyms. We used to have a base in Sheffield, but we don't have that wall anymore. 145 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:14,400 So recently we had a training weekend at London and we'll have another one coming up in a couple 146 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:23,920 of weeks. And they were really good. We have setters in and they set specific jaw zone problems. 147 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:28,480 And yeah, the setting was good and the whole selection was really good. And the wall was 148 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:34,560 really good. So definitely still, there was so much effort put into it. So even though we don't have 149 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:42,960 a wall, it was really, really beneficial before the OQS to have that. And we also had the GB 150 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:53,040 coaches there, which is never going to be bad because they're good coaches. So it's nice to have 151 00:18:53,040 --> 00:19:02,320 them around. How often do you guys get together as a full team GB training session? As a full team, 152 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:12,160 we had one before the Shanghai World Cup as a full team, so seniors and juniors and everybody 153 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:22,000 down to quite young, which is actually really cool. And I hope we have more of them. But usually it's 154 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:29,280 a little bit more segregated. So there'll be like the OQS group because they need to train different 155 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:35,760 things. And also people are at different comps. People are at like youth comps and ECs and then 156 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:43,440 World Cups and stuff. So it's quite hard to get them all together. But normally pre-season, it'll be full team. 157 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,520 And do you only work with the team coaches or do you also have your own coach? 158 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:56,080 I have my own coaches. I get my training plan from Oli Tor from Lattice. And then I have a 159 00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:06,000 strength and conditioning coach, Tom Parkington. And then I have Rachel, who is a GB coach and they 160 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:14,320 all sort of work together to make sure that the training plan is coherent to all of their views. 161 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:15,280 That's a lot of coaches. 162 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:23,040 Yeah, I thought it would be, it's definitely a risk to have that many people because ideas and 163 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:30,720 views clash. But they're very good at communicating. And I think each one of them brings something 164 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:39,200 completely new to the plan, which has been vital for my season so far. So it's been good. 165 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,880 So it's good that I guess they all have communication with each other. 166 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,520 How long have you been working with those coaches? 167 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:53,120 I've been working with Oli for maybe two years, but I've been with Lattice for quite a long time. 168 00:20:55,360 --> 00:21:03,440 Tom, just this like previous off season, I started working with him. And Rachel, 169 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:12,640 worked with Rachel for quite a long time, but she's been more involved in my training for the 170 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:23,440 past two years. And I see her, I see her a lot and have sessions with her a lot. So yeah, I think 171 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,480 probably two years properly, but I've known her for quite a long time. 172 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:35,040 Yeah. And I guess we can kind of get into your training a little bit more. Well, first of all, 173 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:41,520 it's like, it's really interesting to me from an outsider's point of view to see how people 174 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:48,720 seem to suddenly come out of nowhere, like season to season and like find really incredible form. 175 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,400 What do you think you did in training during off season that really worked for you this year? 176 00:21:55,120 --> 00:22:09,680 I think that this off season, I basically pushed, I think it's hard because last off season, 177 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:16,880 I worked hard, but sometimes you think you're working hard and you're maybe not working as hard 178 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:23,680 as you can, but it's hard to know how hard you can work. And I remember Tom Greenall, 179 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:31,440 who used to be like the head coach for GB before he retired was basically saying to my coaches, 180 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:40,560 push her hard, harder. And if you reach a ceiling, then we know that she can't work that hard. 181 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,800 And if she doesn't reach the ceiling, then we know that she can work harder because I think 182 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:54,080 coaches are scared of overworking their athletes, which is fair, but then I didn't break and I could 183 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,800 work harder. So is the ceiling like injury or? 184 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:10,960 I think the ceiling is just, I wouldn't say injury, I guess. When you start getting 185 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:18,880 like minor tweaks and stuff way more often, then you should lower it a bit. 186 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:29,920 But I didn't get to the point where I was getting like tweaks every week. So I took that as that the 187 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,440 training load was okay. 188 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:38,720 So you felt like this season before you thought you were working hard and you actually just weren't? 189 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:44,960 Yeah, I think there's a difference between being tired and being like, well, there's obviously a 190 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:50,080 difference between being tired and being exhausted. And this past off season has definitely been like 191 00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:57,120 exhausted. It's been sort of like seven to nine hour days, six days a week. 192 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:04,320 Oh, wow. All right. So what happens in seven to nine hours? Because that is quite a long time. 193 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:11,760 And the depths of off season, I would be doing circuits every day. They wouldn't always be hard, 194 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:21,120 but just to get the base in, I'd do that. And usually finger boarding, I guess. Obviously not 195 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:29,680 every day, but usually in a normal day, finger boarding and then circuits and then like, so 196 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:35,920 no, every day is different. But if I'm on the board, then two hours on the board or then boulders. 197 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:45,840 And I guess every part of that day has to be really focused to what you're actually meant to be 198 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:53,200 achieving. But when you actually put it all together, it actually takes a really long time to do. 199 00:24:54,160 --> 00:25:00,080 Yeah, I guess like, do you consider resting as part of those seven to nine hours? Obviously like, 200 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:07,280 not like a full rest, but like taking some time or like having a snack or like, 201 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:13,840 is nutrition part of those seven to nine hours? I'd say yeah, but I would never take more than like 202 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:20,240 45 minutes to it. Because obviously if it's seven to nine hours, there's always going to be a meal 203 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:28,720 in between. Yeah. I'd hope so. Yeah, maybe give or take 45 minutes. Oh, wow. 204 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:35,920 Okay, that is a lot of training. More than I thought. I think, yeah, I guess like, 205 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:43,120 I can't imagine doing that much. My body would definitely break. So it's good to hear that 206 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:50,320 your body didn't break. The nine hour days were definitely, because obviously when I say I like 207 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:56,320 work on slabs, you can really, you can sort of work on slabs for like three or four hours, 208 00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:03,440 and it's not too taxing. So if it was nine hours, I would be working, I would be having like slabs 209 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:09,920 set for me for like four hours and then maybe some power endurance for an hour and then some 210 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:17,920 conditioning for two hours and stuff. So it's all, yeah, it sounds like a lot, but the tiny things 211 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:25,120 do add up. So then in terms of finding great form this year, do you think it was a good idea to 212 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:28,960 do that? I mean, you've been doing a lot of great form this year. Do you think it was just like the 213 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:35,120 hours that you put into the gym or was there like a mindset shift or anything like that? 214 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:41,120 There was definitely a mindset shift. I think in competition climbing, even if you're really 215 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:46,880 strong, you're not going to perform well or get good results if you don't have a good mindset. 216 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:54,880 For the last like two months before the season started, I would be working on my mindset with 217 00:26:54,880 --> 00:27:05,760 Rachel mostly, and it was difficult because I'd had the same mindset for so long and I sort of 218 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:13,600 felt like, because I think as athletes sometimes people feel like you have to be really serious 219 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:19,360 take it really serious because it's your job. So you've got to be really focused, but that doesn't 220 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:26,160 work for everybody and it definitely wasn't working for me. So I found that taking a more 221 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:32,480 relaxed approach and smiling and laughing about things and messing about a little bit and 222 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:40,720 just focusing on enjoying the whole experience of it. You know, the crowd and the atmosphere and the 223 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:46,720 commentators and the tiny things that sort of make you a bit nervous, that's all part of the 224 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:53,360 experience. So smiling along with it and enjoying it really helped me really help me climb well and 225 00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:59,200 perform well. Would you say that you do that in training as well or is training more just like 226 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:05,280 it's got to be serious? Definitely try to implement it in training as well because I, 227 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:11,600 there are definitely days where I get really angry with myself and it's, I guess anger can help you, 228 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:17,520 it can motivate you, but it can also just, if it's just making you get annoyed, then it's not 229 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:27,040 beneficial for training, not beneficial for performing in training. So guess learning when 230 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:33,200 it's, learning when the anger is actually helping me try hard and learning when it's 231 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:42,720 just making me not able to learn and get off a block. So yeah, I try to, if I'm, if I realize that 232 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:48,960 it's not helping, I try to sort of like take a breath and smile and enjoy the process of 233 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:54,080 learning something instead of getting really angry that I'm not able to do it first try. 234 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,000 I feel like that's not super great for me to hear because I think I kind of reached that breaking 235 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:04,560 point. I'm kind of over it. So everything you're saying is kind of like, oops, I think I kind of 236 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:14,480 surpass that point, but that's okay. There's always next year. Yeah, I mean, training's always hard. 237 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:19,920 Do you, did you ever just have the thought of like, I just want to quit it all? Yeah, 238 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:26,880 so many times during the off season. I mean, there was a point before the off season where I had a 239 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:33,840 bad comp and I got a bad one. Well, I didn't get a bad one. It was just a fun comp in the UK, but 240 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:42,640 I didn't enjoy it. I was so stressed. I climbed really badly and I was just basically was thinking 241 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:49,440 I either want to change the way that I view competition climbing or I don't want to do it 242 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:56,000 anymore, which is part of the reason I changed my mindset. But also, yeah, during the off season, 243 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,160 when you do something that much, there are going to be times when you don't want to do it. 244 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:07,200 And I can remember a few sessions where I completely broke down and was like, 245 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:15,120 yeah, I'm not doing this anymore. My mum had to be there a lot of the time to get me out of that. 246 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:27,280 But I think it's all part of it. And I think making the jump up to the top level is always going to 247 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:32,080 be hard when you don't, when you haven't done it yet, because maybe the belief isn't quite there. 248 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:37,120 And if you're working so much for something and you don't necessarily know if you can do it, 249 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:42,640 that's sort of, it's just hard to stay motivated. 250 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:48,240 How did you kind of pull yourself out of those funks? Or I guess, how did your mum help you with that? 251 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,440 I guess she always sort of is like, 252 00:30:51,440 --> 00:31:02,000 reminds me of my, what I've already done, which is helpful. But then also just saying that I'm 253 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:09,760 doing my best. You do your best to improve, you do your best to get better. And if that's enough, 254 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:17,520 then great. And if it's not, then you've done all you can do. So I think it's just, I think 255 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:23,520 I was pushing as hard as I could. So if you get out of the off season and you're making finals, 256 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:29,520 then great. And if you're not, then you've done everything you can. 257 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:34,560 How long did those usually last for you? Like you're just back at it the next day? 258 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:44,720 Sometimes I'll be back at it. I think, I think I was pushing as hard as I could. So I think I was 259 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:52,400 back at it. I think some of them, it's just, if you have a terrible session, then you're not going 260 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:58,960 to want to do it. I think the problem was that in the off season, there was quite a long period of 261 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:07,200 time when I was just having bad session after bad session. But I think after this season, 262 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:12,640 it's going to be easier because like last time I went to Innsbruck, I was flashing eight B pluses, 263 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:19,280 but back in the off season, there were sessions where I was falling off seven A's. It's hard to 264 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:26,320 believe when you're falling off something that my brother was getting up and he's not really that 265 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:32,880 into climbing back then. And he was getting up stuff and I was falling off. I think it's 266 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:40,880 hard not to lose it when that's happening. Yeah, fair. So he also goes with you to like train? 267 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:46,480 Yeah. Only sometimes if he's around. He was climbing with me when I was 268 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:53,360 younger, like we went, we were in the same club. So he saw a bit of a natural, I guess. 269 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,800 Okay. But he doesn't like compete or anything. 270 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,440 Nah, just, just, just for fun. He enjoys it, I guess. 271 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,200 And I guess he enjoys beating you if you're having an off day. 272 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:12,800 Right. Yes. He found it very amusing whilst I was questioning my life choices. 273 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:18,160 Oh my God. Yeah, I would totally, I totally get that. That would send me into a spiral for sure. 274 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:25,680 But I guess it's just like one year training and you're not recovered ever because you're doing 275 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:31,680 seven to nine hour days, six days a week. That'll, that'll change what you're able to 276 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:37,920 accomplish on the wall. Yeah. I don't know. I guess when you say it like that, it's so obvious that 277 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:44,880 it's going to affect you, but I did not think that way when I was falling off so nice. 278 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,760 Please excuse this brief intermission, but I would just like to remind you that if you are enjoying 279 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,320 this podcast, please follow and rate it on your preferred listening platform. If you're watching 280 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:59,760 on YouTube, I would love to hear your discussion and thoughts in the comments below. Anything helps 281 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:06,960 to push this podcast out to more people and get even more amazing guests on. Back to the show. 282 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:15,600 Yeah. And on the discord, someone had mentioned that they know Toby had like a four year plan 283 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:22,400 aimed specifically for the Olympics in terms of training. Did you also have like this Olympic 284 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:29,760 training plan in mind or were you kind of just training to get better and see where it takes you? 285 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:35,200 I definitely didn't have a four year Olympic plan. I don't think I would have ever thought that I'd 286 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:45,200 be in this position four years ago, but I definitely had goals, competition goals, like training for 287 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:53,040 specific comps. And I remember I was training for getting onto the senior GB team for a while, 288 00:34:54,480 --> 00:35:01,440 but I was always just sort of training within like a year. So I was training for next year's 289 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:07,120 competitions or next year's selections. I didn't really ever have a, I didn't ever have a four year 290 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:13,120 plan, but now I'll probably try and implement something that I think it would be helpful. 291 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:19,760 Yeah. I mean, I guess it depends. I mean, I think doing just a year out makes a lot of sense. Like 292 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:27,360 who knows what's going to happen in four years. Personally, I feel like if I put together a four 293 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:33,680 year plan and the goal was the Olympics, I would just get really stressed about not getting anywhere 294 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:39,920 near that goal because that is quite lofty. So, but yeah, depends on, depends on the person and the 295 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:47,840 mindset. Also, I think I heard in an interview, you mentioned that it was hard for you to keep 296 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:53,280 up with friends who didn't climb due to your training schedule. And I think this will actually 297 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:59,040 be pretty relevant because there was recently a discussion in the discord as well about being 298 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:04,400 afraid of ending up alone because of like schedule and compatibility with training. 299 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:10,640 Is there, was that, was there something you like found to be able to push through that or like 300 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,440 make specific climbing friends or did you ever resolve that issue? 301 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:26,320 And sort of resolve, but I think that it will always be a problem and I'm sure other athletes 302 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:35,440 will agree. Yeah, in school, especially it was more noticeable because I think everybody, 303 00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:42,240 school is like the perfect place to have friends and make friends and everything, 304 00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:48,720 but it was still quite difficult for me, especially like hanging out outside of school. Like 305 00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:55,920 if people wanted to spend the entire day together, then there was no time for me to train or 306 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:02,480 if they wanted to do go out or something, like I couldn't do that because I needed to train or 307 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:09,360 I was just not in the country because I was competing. So there wasn't really much time 308 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:14,240 for it. And I think a lot of people don't like that. So they weren't really interested in 309 00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:23,520 being my friend because they didn't like that I didn't have time for them. But yeah, I think 310 00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:30,400 the thing that resolved it was just finding people who did understand. I know I had like 311 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:37,600 a really good, I still do and she isn't a climber and she isn't an athlete, but she really understands 312 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:46,320 and having people like that is basically made my school life durable. I guess now that you're no 313 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:54,240 longer in school, do you feel like it's easier for you since you have a little bit more time, 314 00:37:54,240 --> 00:38:00,240 I think, since like kind of before school is like your full day and then you also have to do climbing, 315 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:04,640 but now climbing is your full day and then maybe after climbing, you're like, 316 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,640 now climbing is your full day and then maybe after climbing, you have some time. 317 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:15,680 Yeah, it's definitely easier. Even in winter when I was doing massive hours, it was, 318 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:22,240 I still had way more time than I did at school because unfortunately I did care about school 319 00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:29,520 and I couldn't sort of just go through it and not really mind how it went. I was 320 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:38,640 really focused. So yeah, I basically didn't have any extra time and now I can spend time with my 321 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:47,600 friends. So I would say, yeah, it's easier now. And I also just think that I've met more people 322 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:54,160 through climbing since doing it full time who I would consider friends. So yeah, definitely easier. 323 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:59,760 Yeah, that makes sense. Would you say like most of your friends are climbing friends? 324 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:06,560 Because also now that you're not in school, you're kind of dealing with the adult issue, 325 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,560 the perpetual issue of not really knowing where else to meet friends. 326 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:19,920 Yeah, I think most of my friends are probably climbing friends. I think I have maybe three 327 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:25,680 friends who I still talk to from school and the rest are all climbing. And yeah, I don't 328 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:32,800 really know where else I'd meet people outside of climbing who I would be friends with. 329 00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:37,040 So yeah, mostly climbing friends. 330 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,040 Don't worry, it's a perpetual issue. 331 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:42,160 Yeah. 332 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:47,040 Okay. And yeah, you're also like one of the younger climbers that I've interviewed so far. 333 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:54,000 What is it like? I guess like who are your idols and what is it like climbing and competing against 334 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:55,680 them? 335 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,920 I think it's, I mean, it's an elite sport. So obviously, there are going to be so many 336 00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:14,080 inspirational people around you. I know as a kid, I always used to look up to like Molly, 337 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:20,880 Molly Thompson Smith and Shawna just because they're, well, they're amazing. But also they're 338 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:28,720 from Great Britain. So it's just inspiring to see someone, I guess, like you who is 339 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:39,360 being so successful in something. But every international climber has, I think every 340 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:47,360 international climber has something unique about them that makes them inspiring and gives 341 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:55,360 something that you can learn from. I know I've learned something from the majority of the top 342 00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:02,080 competitors, whether it's before I competed directly with them or afterwards. 343 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:11,360 Do you feel intimidated when you compete against them? Or in the case where you maybe get a better 344 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:16,720 result, do you feel like bad? Or do you feel great about that? 345 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:26,720 I definitely think there's like imposter syndrome sometimes. But I don't think that any of the, 346 00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:33,600 I would hope that none of them, the competitors think that, or like embarrassed that you've 347 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:41,600 beaten them. I think when you're at that top level, it, any time someone beats you, it's, 348 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:49,200 they just feel sort of, because they're at that top level as well and they're working as hard as you. 349 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:56,400 So they just understand that you've worked really hard to get to that point. Yeah, like none of the 350 00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:04,640 people who I've met through finals have like disappointed me by how they are. They've all 351 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:15,440 been wonderful and really supportive. So I don't feel bad when I beat them and I, and how they've 352 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:23,040 beaten them and I'm happy to get the result. And I hope that I always want to beat people 353 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:29,200 when they're at their best. I don't want people to mess up so that I can get there. So yeah, 354 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:35,440 I just, I want to beat people when they're at their best. And if I do, then that's going to, 355 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:45,280 that's nice. Okay. No, yeah, good way of putting it. Okay. Going back to UK climbing real 356 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:52,240 quick. I think people are always kind of interested in knowing how federations support their athletes. 357 00:42:53,600 --> 00:43:00,800 Do you get any stipend from like the GB climbing team or do you have to pay your own way? 358 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:12,560 We have to pay for our travel and accommodation to comps. And that's it's a big comp like World 359 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:18,560 Champs and stuff, which is sort of partially funded, but we do get obviously training weekends and 360 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:28,560 we also get free, like we can use the in-house GB coaches for free whenever we want. We can 361 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:36,160 have sessions with them, which is really vital for, well, was really helpful for me this off season. 362 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:43,280 And also I think you can get like a training plan basically written for you for free, 363 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:49,520 which is also pretty, like a pretty big thing to be given. So I think they help us in lots of other 364 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:55,840 ways, but yeah, we have to fund ourselves. Okay. So I guess you kind of feel like 365 00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:03,440 there's, you were getting enough like resources from the GB team for your competition journey. 366 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:09,360 Yeah, obviously it would be nice to be funded for competitions, especially if, 367 00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:16,240 I mean, I've gone to Shanghai twice already this year, so that's a bit of a, it's not cheap, 368 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:30,480 but I think there are other ways of support that are always more vital for success. Like having 369 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:36,640 in-house coaching is really important and having to fund yourself is annoying, but 370 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,680 it doesn't necessarily help your performance like the coaching does. 371 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:50,560 Yeah. Cause a lot of, or I wouldn't say a lot, a few federations do provide like stipends or funding 372 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:58,960 for their athletes, which is really nice. How do you go about supporting yourself? Do you like work 373 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:05,360 another job or I guess you are pretty young, so it would also make sense if your parents are just 374 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:11,760 supporting you through this time, but yeah, do you have like plans on getting funding in the future? 375 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:21,920 I'm trying to sort of get help from sponsors and I have started getting help from sponsors, 376 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:30,000 which has been, well, it's looking good for future travel and my parents do obviously help me a lot. 377 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:36,640 I would not be going to comps without them, so that's very grateful for that, but also 378 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:46,720 local competitions in the UK. So like Battle of Britain and Ploughed Masters and Kwiff and stuff, 379 00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:53,680 I think that last year I got about £10,000 from doing those to sort of fund the comp season. 380 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:59,680 So yeah, I think that's how most of the UK scene do it, other than working jobs, they 381 00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:02,960 try and win money from those types of comps. 382 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:10,160 Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, I just had another discussion previous interview about funding for 383 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:17,840 athletes and how prize money is just not really there, especially at the World Cups. It actually 384 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:26,160 seems like a little better at local comps depending on where you're going, but yeah, that's always a 385 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:32,000 difficult part. So if there are any sponsors listening, I hope they could reach out. 386 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,120 Yes, please. 387 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:40,560 Okay, so for the future, if you qualify for the Olympics, you only get six-ish weeks before the 388 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,080 Olympics happens, I think? Yeah, six weeks. 389 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:49,200 Yeah. So what would be the plan in that quick turnaround time? 390 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:55,760 I guess it depends how, like if any weaknesses are highlighted in the Budapest, but 391 00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:07,280 if I got selected for the Olympics, I would probably focus on skills. So like certain, 392 00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:13,760 there are certain dinos that I don't really get on because they aren't set in the UK. So I'd focus on 393 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:20,720 getting them set for me. And then I'd probably also go back to Innsbruck because I just, I think 394 00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:26,080 it's good practice just getting on the routes. I don't think I'd go to the Innsbruck World Cup, 395 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:33,600 but definitely afterwards I'd go and get on some hard routes. And then, yeah, I think I'd 396 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:44,080 not necessarily go into like intense training, but focused sessions would be the main thing I'd do. 397 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:48,560 What are some of those dinos that you don't really feel like you get practice in the UK? 398 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:57,120 Anything that's complex basically. So in the World Cup in Shanghai, the paddle dino from finals, 399 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,080 like I just, I don't understand the movement of those types of things because I don't really get 400 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:12,480 on them. And then finals again in OQS, the last boulder didn't really, I don't, my body just 401 00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:19,280 isn't intuitive to understanding them because I haven't necessarily worked the intuition for 402 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:26,240 those types of moves. So having them set for me to actually learn how to do them is really important. 403 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:31,600 Yeah, it's really hard to just learn that on the spot while you're in front of an audience. 404 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:39,280 Yeah, I'll try to find videos of those and so people can be reminded of what those are. 405 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:44,880 Do you feel like there are any advantages to qualifying later for the Olympics or is it all 406 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:51,040 just you wish that you could have qualified sooner? I think it's nicer mentally obviously 407 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:57,920 to have already qualified. I know Trish, Toby's dad was really happy, obviously happy because he 408 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,440 qualified for the Olympics, but also just so that they have time to plan everything. 409 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:09,680 But I also think it's quite good timing really. You finish Budapest and you have six weeks, maybe 410 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:15,680 one of them is like a D-load and then you have four hard training weeks and then one of them is a 411 00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:20,640 D-load again before the Olympics. Actually works quite well as a training phase. So 412 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,880 I don't think it's too much of a disadvantage to qualify later. 413 00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:31,040 Well, that's a good mindset going into it. And in terms of the future, have you created 414 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:37,920 like more future climbing goals? Not necessarily. I think it's all the usual stuff really like 415 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:45,520 podiuming at a World Cup and stuff like that. I think of my main climbing goals, 416 00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:53,120 I think obviously LA as well. Maybe the four-year plan can kick in now. You can get going on ahead. 417 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:59,280 Do you have any goals in terms of the Olympics that you've created at this point? 418 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:09,200 I'm being careful not to jinx things. So I don't want to say like, oh for the Paris Games or 419 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:16,000 for the LA Games, but in general, should I knock on wood? I don't know. 420 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:24,240 Obviously, if I do go to the Paris Games, I want to be competitive. I don't just want to go, 421 00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:30,080 I want to go and be at my strongest and have a proper chance at competing at the level. 422 00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:38,480 But I guess I don't have like a, I want to make finals, I want to make podium. I just want to 423 00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:43,920 climb my best and be at my strongest. If I do, hopefully go to the Paris Games. 424 00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:49,440 That makes sense. And we can leave it there in terms of Olympics in the future. 425 00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:58,000 Don't want to say anything more about it. Okay, so I think that's a good way to go. 426 00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:07,120 Okay, so in terms of a little bit more of your personal life, you had mentioned that you postpone 427 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:13,520 university to focus on pro climbing. What do you think you would have chosen to do if climbing 428 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:23,600 hadn't been in your life? I had a scholarship for sport and exercise science at Sheffield Hallam 429 00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:33,120 University. But then I had a gap year and then I sort of wanted to do space science or planetology, 430 00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:38,800 which is a bit of a change, a massive change. How did you, why? 431 00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:47,040 I was always interested in it and I really enjoyed science. And I sort of, 432 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:55,120 in my gap year, because I wasn't studying, I sort of used my free time to look into it. 433 00:51:55,840 --> 00:52:04,160 And I learned loads of art space and suddenly became a bit obsessed with it. So that was my, 434 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:09,680 I sort of changed my mind. But then obviously that's a very intense degree and I would not 435 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:15,680 have the time to do that and train. Yeah, that makes sense. You, 436 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:23,920 I guess at this point, you're kind of going to keep postponing it until the climbing stuff is, 437 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,600 well, that's going to be a while from now, until the climbing stuff is done, I guess. 438 00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:36,080 Yeah, I think you can go to uni at any point in your life. And I was never going to be able 439 00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:43,840 to have the sort of like uni social life. So it's not necessarily going to be any different. 440 00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:49,360 It's not really going to be any different to me going there when I'm a bit older. And I, 441 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:55,040 with the amount that I have to train at the moment to get to the level and to stay at the level, 442 00:52:55,760 --> 00:53:00,400 maybe in a couple of years, I'll be able to do four or five hour days in the off-season. 443 00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:07,200 But at the moment, I don't have the fitness to do that. So I have to carry on with the longer days 444 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:15,440 and I just wouldn't be able to do uni or I would, but my climbing would take a hit definitely. 445 00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:21,600 Okay. And so switching gears, this is kind of just like a grab bag of personal questions. 446 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:27,200 Sure. I also heard that you had lived in Malaysia at some point. 447 00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:34,160 Yeah. So what was the reason for that? And what was it like there? 448 00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:42,480 My dad got a job in Malaysia. So we moved there. We sort of moved around a lot when I was a kid. 449 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:48,400 I moved around a lot. So we lived in like Hong Kong and then England and Malaysia. 450 00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:56,720 And it was always because of his job, but that's probably didn't help with friends either. 451 00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,200 Yeah, that definitely makes it hard. 452 00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,320 I was always in trouble with friends really. 453 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:03,600 Oh God. 454 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,080 It was surprisingly good for the training really. 455 00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:17,920 Really? It didn't like make it difficult. Well, I guess it was good to get like different styles of 456 00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:22,720 training in or different styles of climbing in based on how they set in different countries. 457 00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:27,040 Yeah, it's definitely different. And the lead wall was absolutely massive, 458 00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,280 bigger than really anything in the UK. 459 00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:30,560 In Malaysia? 460 00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:34,400 Yeah. Oh, really? I had no idea about that. 461 00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:37,520 Pretty big, yeah. 462 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:48,000 Yeah, I guess I've never been to Malaysia or Hong Kong, but based on like representation 463 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:53,920 within like World Cup athletes, I would have thought that maybe they don't have as much 464 00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:57,920 in terms of climbing in those countries. Is that not the case? 465 00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:04,560 They probably don't have that many places where I climbed most of the times campfires. 466 00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,920 And their ballroom wasn't that extensive, I don't think, but they had a lot of top rope 467 00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:17,840 and a lot of lead and they're really quite tall walls. And I don't know about the grading because 468 00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:25,600 I was quite young. I wasn't doing anything hard at that point, but yeah, the walls were quite big. 469 00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:30,640 And the walls in the UK are probably not, definitely not as tall. 470 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:35,760 Interesting. And so at that point, were you still just like climbing for fun or were you 471 00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:38,000 actually doing training as well? 472 00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:45,680 I think we were in Malaysia when I was about nine to 12. So I was still just doing it for fun. But 473 00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:52,880 that's when I started getting more interested in it. I had a coach in Malaysia, Francis, who 474 00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:59,680 I still talk to now. And he was one of the main reasons that I got really interested in that, 475 00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,480 or maybe one of the main reasons that I really started enjoying it. 476 00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,520 Okay, that's nice. Does he know that? 477 00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:07,520 He knows it now, I'm sure. 478 00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:14,960 Okay. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. And switching gears again, 479 00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:21,200 Matt Groom has mentioned your Instagram handle a bit during the live stream. I think he really 480 00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,560 wants to know where the Aaron McBeath nickname came from. 481 00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:35,280 It came from Liam Briden. He's a GV coach and he'll be very happy that I'm giving him credit. 482 00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:45,120 It came from 2022 Youth Worlds in Dallas. It was originally McBeath because apparently I'd like 483 00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:49,520 to fight with everybody. I don't really know what, that's completely untrue. 484 00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,560 That's completely untrue. And then it changed to McBeath. 485 00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:58,720 Okay. So you liked fighting with people in like a competitive aspect? 486 00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:11,600 Honestly, I don't know. He doesn't make much sense a lot of the time. He just does his own 487 00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:17,040 narrative and everybody else has to deal with it. Every time I say that I'm going to change it, 488 00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,080 he's like, no, you can't change it. So I kept it. 489 00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:26,320 Yeah. I mean, now you definitely can't because Matt's talked about it. The whole live stream has 490 00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:31,840 seen it. Everyone knows about it. So I think it's going to stick, but it's good to know that that's 491 00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:37,360 where it came from. Another thing that I think people always just generally want to know, 492 00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:44,560 Matt always wants to know, what do you do when you're an ISO? Do you listen to music or do you 493 00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:50,560 have a specific routine? I guess other than the obvious of warming up, I definitely have to have 494 00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:57,680 things that entertain me because my world ranking is quite low at the moment. So I come out quite 495 00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:03,680 late because obviously the highest ranked athletes go up first. But mostly it's just 496 00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:11,520 hanging out with the GV coaches. They're quite entertaining on their own, like playing card games 497 00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:20,320 with athletes or the coaches. Just keeping the mood really light because you don't want to be an 498 00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:29,920 ISO for ages, like stressing out. So yeah, anything that keeps the conversation light and just fun. 499 00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:35,680 How long do you have to stay in ISO right now, given the world ranking? 500 00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:47,600 In OQS, I was bib number 36, so I was ranked 36. So probably whatever five times 35 is, 501 00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:52,640 that's how long I was in there for Boulder. Hopefully in the future it'll improve. Does 502 00:58:52,640 --> 00:59:02,720 that improve year to year or comp to comp? Year to year. I think, or maybe not. I'm not sure. 503 00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:08,800 I think it's comp to comp actually. Oh, okay. I kind of thought that's something you would know 504 00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:17,040 about, but okay. We'll see. We'll see next time. Yeah, I don't actually know that. Okay. Well, 505 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:27,440 good luck for next time. Maybe it'll go faster. I hope so. Yeah. Okay. And so last section, 506 00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:33,440 just a few discord questions that came in. The first one being you more recently made the 507 00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:42,320 transition from youth to the elite circuit. Was it, or I guess like, yeah, from youth to elite 508 00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:48,720 circuit and youth to like being a pro climber. Was it easy for you to make the decision to 509 00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:56,720 go all in or was there a lot of doubt involved? I think it was relatively easy. 510 00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:04,480 I've been doing senior comps or I did my first senior comp when I was 511 01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:15,040 18, 17 or 18 in 2022. I did my first European cup. So I've been doing them for quite a long time, 512 01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:22,880 but I think the hardest decision was whether to start doing them or whether to carry on focusing 513 01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:30,320 on youth comps because I could have focused more on youth comps and maybe gotten a medal in like 514 01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:36,160 some youth comp or I could have gotten the experience I needed in senior competitions. 515 01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:43,520 So that was probably the hardest thing. There was never a struggle with deciding whether I wanted to 516 01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:52,400 go all in. I think sort of after I got onto the GME team, I was all in. 517 01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,600 Do you win like prize money for youth comps as well? 518 01:00:56,320 --> 01:01:00,080 I have absolutely no idea. I've never got a medal in youth. 519 01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,840 Oh, okay. But I would hope so, 520 01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:09,120 and I'm not sure. Yeah, I mean, I'm just, I'm never sure with these things, you would assume, 521 01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:16,080 but then you kind of like learn stuff and it's like, oh, yeah, maybe not. Okay. Yeah. So then 522 01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:23,520 how did you decide to just get experience from the, I guess, elite circuit instead of continuing 523 01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:29,760 and trying to like medal in it in the youth comps? I guess just looking to the future. 524 01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:41,280 I was sort of not lucky, but when I tried out for the senior team, I got onto the senior team and 525 01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:47,600 then was immediately given comps because of how I did in selection. So it wasn't a case of being on 526 01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:55,360 the senior team and not given comps. So I guess I got a little bit excited and I went for those comps. 527 01:01:55,360 --> 01:02:02,640 But I made, like I said, the European Cup in 2022 was my first one and I made semis. 528 01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:12,720 And then my first European League Cup was that same year and I made finals. So I sort of wanted 529 01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:18,080 to carry on getting that experience. And I knew I sort of wasn't at the level to be podiuming, but 530 01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:25,360 I thought that that experience was more beneficial for the long term than going to youth cups. 531 01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:31,520 Yeah, I think that makes sense. Probably a good decision. Okay. So next question, 532 01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:37,840 do you prefer to train at your home gym? Like, does it feel more comfortable for you or do you 533 01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:47,920 prefer to travel and get that different experience? I think both have their positives. I think 534 01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:53,600 training at home is really nice because you're surrounded by family and friends and it's a 535 01:02:53,600 --> 01:03:00,160 comfortable environment and you know the venue and you know what your facilities are, which is 536 01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:08,960 helpful. But training abroad is really great. If you go to places that are more well known for 537 01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:15,360 having good facilities, then you'll often be up to train with other national teams, which is really, 538 01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:28,080 really important. Well, not important, but it's nice. And also, abroad is just different too at 539 01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:36,240 home, so it's useful to get on different things. So both definitely have their place. I guess in 540 01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:43,760 general, do you like traveling or is it kind of a nuisance for you? I'd say I quite like it. 541 01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:49,520 I quite like it when it's with other people. I think if I'm going on my own, it's a bit boring 542 01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:55,280 and I don't look forward to it as much. But if it's with my family or if it's with the coaches or 543 01:03:55,280 --> 01:04:03,840 the other athletes or something, I quite enjoy it. And then the last question, do you currently 544 01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:11,280 participate in any other sports? I know you had mentioned you've done some before, but I guess 545 01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:17,440 you dropped all the other ones to focus on climbing. I don't do any sports at the moment, 546 01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:25,040 but yeah, I was really into football and I was still doing football when I got onto the GB team, 547 01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:31,360 but I quickly dropped it. Do you feel like there was any cross-training benefit from football? 548 01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:39,840 I'm sure there was some sort of fitness benefit from it, but it was really, I think it was 549 01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:47,760 probably quite damaging for my knees and hips. I always had knee and hip problems, so ever since 550 01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:53,280 dropping that, I don't have them as much. So I think that the benefits probably didn't outweigh 551 01:04:53,280 --> 01:05:02,240 the cost. Nice. Yeah. I mean, you said that you don't have a lot of tweaks or anything from 552 01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:10,800 climbing, but I guess you've had issues from playing football. Yeah. I think because it was 553 01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:18,720 I only played for a small club that did it for fun, so they weren't really into warming up. So 554 01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:23,840 I probably just probably had tweaks from not warming up, but they went away pretty quickly 555 01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:30,080 once I dropped it, so it was okay. Any climbing injuries that you've had that you're dealing with? 556 01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:37,440 I've been really good with injuries. I've never had a serious injury. I just have tweaks. I tweaked 557 01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:43,200 my finger a few months ago, but it was cleared up before the first World Cup. It wasn't anything 558 01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:51,360 major, so I've been pretty lucky with that. Awesome. Well, I hope that continues. Okay, 559 01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:58,000 I think that's all the questions I had. Thanks for joining me. I'm going to go ahead and wrap 560 01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:03,920 it up. Thanks for joining me. Is there anything that you want to shout out or let people know 561 01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:11,440 where they can find you or any closing thoughts that you have? You can find me at Aramatebeast 562 01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:17,600 by Instagram, as he says. Okay, awesome. Well, thank you again. It was amazing to talk to you. 563 01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:26,400 Good luck in Budapest and hopefully the Olympics are in your future. Thank you. I hope so. Thank 564 01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:31,360 you so much for making it to the end of the podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe if 565 01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:36,880 you enjoyed. Otherwise, you are a super fake climber. If you're listening on a podcasting 566 01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:42,000 platform, I'd appreciate if you rated it five stars and you can continue the discussion on the 567 01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:57,440 free competition climbing discord linked in the description. Thanks again for listening.