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Okay, Hachioji was hard, but the season was awesome.

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It had a story.

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And Ai just doesn't have leg power.

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And she'd be the first to tell you.

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We might finish setting and taping qualities, let's just say, at Thursday night at midnight

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or 1 a.m., 2 a.m., get to the wall at 7, we're there from 7 until all the way, maybe until

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again, 1 a.m., 2 a.m., 3 a.m.

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Am I good enough?

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Is this imposter syndrome situation happening?

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Am I supposed to be here?

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Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Coming podcast.

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I'm your host Jinni and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today, Cody Grodzki.

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Cody is the USA national chief fraudsetter and in the 2023 IFSC season, he had the opportunity

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to set boulders in Hachioji, Prague, Innsbruck, and the burn world champs.

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In this episode, we'll watch him read YouTube hate comments and we'll learn about the differences

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between IFSC versus USA versus commercial route setting, as well as hear about his awesome

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new gym that's opening up soon.

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I am so excited to visit it someday.

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This is a super long episode, but there was so much to get into and he has some serious

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passion for setting, which is just inspiring to listen to.

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So please enjoy this episode with Cody and send him lots of thanks for the time he spent

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with me on this.

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Hope you enjoy.

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Yeah, yeah, totally.

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Okay, awesome.

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Well, let's just get right into it then.

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Yeah, how are things going?

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Are you preparing for your upcoming trip to Europe for this selection come?

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I am.

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Yeah, yeah, just slowly starting to pack my things and get everything organized.

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And you know, I travel quite a lot, so it's kind of the same strategy each time.

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Yeah, you've got the routine down.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So I guess getting right into it a bit, when did you start climbing and route setting?

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Let's see.

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So funnily enough, I started climbing and route setting and working at a climbing gym

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all like almost in the same day.

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Not exactly, but for sure, yeah, within maybe a few days or something like that.

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It was all pretty much all at the same time.

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I started climbing about 16 years ago, so I've been setting for about that long.

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And then just due to the nature of when I started at this climbing gym in town, they

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happen to be having a USA climbing regionals.

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And so I got to like for run, for run, like I had any concept of what that meant, right?

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I was just like, they're like, oh, there's people here setting competition routes.

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They invited us if we want to help them test.

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And I was like, okay, I'll help.

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And so kind of right out of the gate, got involved in just pure luck, just completely

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pure luck that it happened that way.

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Like right when you started climbing?

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Yeah, pretty much.

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I mean, I was fooling around.

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I mean, I went, I guess when did any of us start climbing?

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When I was two years or four years old, probably I went to a carnival and did one of those

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rock walls, right?

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But I don't consider that the start of climbing anymore than I had a birthday party at a climbing

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gym when I was a kid.

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Had someone bully me and my friends for a couple hours.

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Maybe that's the start of the climbing.

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I don't know.

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But when I started to actually get into it and I want to go to the gym and I want to

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participate in this community, that was all kind of at the same time.

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Yeah.

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Well, it's just kind of strange that they would ask someone who's still fairly new to

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climbing that they would ask them to start to for run or route set at all in any capacity.

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Unless you were just really good when you started.

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No, no, no.

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Pretty much on the contrary, terrible, terrible.

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I think though it's just like probably pretty indicative of the community up here in southern

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New England.

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And it's, you're also talking almost two decades ago, right?

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Like the climbing landscape has changed so incredibly much.

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It was very, very tight knit for every, you know, new climber in a facility.

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There was 15 mentors, you know, now you have every 15 new climbers.

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You might not even have a mentor.

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So I think I just got really lucky in that way where the community was like very excited

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and very open and they're like, oh, here's someone new that seems like they're wanting

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to share this passion with us, you know, and I did.

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I didn't realize how much so, but they helped foster that.

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And I think they're like, oh, if we just show them this and show them that, then maybe

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they're more likely to stick around and be involved.

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And they're right.

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Yeah, definitely.

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And so back then, was there a formal process at all to get into route setting or were there

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these, I guess, clinics and courses that you can take?

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Because I know right now in the US, there's like five levels of route setting.

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What's the word?

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Like certification?

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Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah.

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So is that like a new thing?

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It's not a new thing.

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I think I should know this, I'm one of the national chief instructors for US at climbing.

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I should know all the history except to go over it all the time.

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But I want to say it was like the route setting program and its founding was somewhere around

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like maybe 2007 or 2008.

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And that was kind of just like the first iteration of it, right?

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Of like, hey, we're formalizing this process in some way, shape or form.

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I don't even know if there was five levels at that point.

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I don't remember what the levels were.

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I do know though that for this, like they did at least have like local events and then

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like regional events.

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Maybe they had divisionals and then nationals.

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So to be the chief of any one of these events, you did have to have some sort of formalized

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education through USA climbing.

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And exactly what that looked like, I don't quite know.

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I think the first level two clinic might have been in 2009 or 2010.

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So it was all starting to be developed around this time.

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And I think that's where there was just so many loose ends all over.

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People could just be involved and as it's forming kind of as you go.

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So it's almost like you can't be too picky if you want the events to occur at various

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places around the country.

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And I'm just guessing here.

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I don't know.

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I've actually never talked to anyone about it, like really what it was like back then

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in terms of specifics for the certification process.

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But it'd be interesting to talk to someone, maybe like Chris Danielson.

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He'd be like just he started the whole program.

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So he would be a wealth of knowledge for that.

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Oh, interesting.

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Yeah, maybe I'll have to look into that.

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Yeah, he's a smart guy.

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He's a really good.

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And so I guess out of this, you've kind of managed to make a career out of climbing,

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which I think is something a lot of people wish they could do.

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It's yeah, I mean, it's a lot of people's passions.

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So was that like a very intentional step for you or did it just sort of happen like how

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you just sort of happened to start for running and route setting?

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Yeah, I think I'm trying to think back here.

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It was it was fairly intentional from I won't say from the get go.

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I won't say from day one or even maybe year one, but pretty, pretty early on, I realized

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that I was very invested in this whole idea.

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But I just didn't know what that looked like because there weren't really any careers.

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Like there was certainly no like careers in route setting as I knew it, at least in my

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little bubble of where I was here in like southern Massachusetts.

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And then it wasn't until I went away to school, I went to University of New Hampshire, that

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I was kind of like, oh, man, I need to make a decision here.

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Like, do I keep kind of pursuing this thing that I'm really excited about route setting?

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Like, I know I'll have climbing, like I know I'll keep climbing.

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I knew that much.

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But do I keep pursuing route setting?

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And what does that look like?

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So I just started Googling like climbing gyms in New Hampshire, climbing gyms in Boston.

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And long story short, eventually found Metro Rock, which maybe folks know or maybe not

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is the home of the Dark Horse bouldering series.

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And in my mind, and maybe this is just me being like, I don't know, I have like a deep,

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deep connection to it because I kind of was there and the foundings of it, I think maybe

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from season two until season six, so really the early days.

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And it just like ignited this huge passion for competition route setting, competition

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climbing.

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They had more of a professional environment for commercialized route setting.

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It was far from perfect.

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And if you compared it to today's day and age, you'd be like, what is going on?

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But for that time, it was very much like top end in a lot of, lot of metrics.

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And it got me super motivated.

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So much so that I went to school at the University of New Hampshire and then at various points

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in time either lived close by to the school, like around the Patuckaway State Park area.

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There's a lot of good climbing up there.

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And then would commute to work in Boston.

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It was like 80 miles each way.

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And then, or switch, or I was living in Boston and commuting to school and same number of

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miles each way.

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Gosh.

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Got kind of tricky at times and definitely, yeah, like asked myself like, what?

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What am I doing?

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Like, there's no money in this.

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Like I'm not getting, you know, I'm having to like pick up coaching shifts and coach

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teams as well as work full time, as well as, you know, travel all this way to school.

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And yeah, it wasn't without questions.

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That's for sure.

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But just kind of was like, you know what?

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I love this.

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So I'm just going to keep going for it until the road runs out.

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And so far the road hasn't run out.

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So yeah, that's awesome.

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And a lot of dedication.

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I mean, for like non-Americans, that's probably what?

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Like an hour and a half, at least of driving every day to and from.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, at least.

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I mean, depending on Boston traffic, too.

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I mean, when you're in New Hampshire, it's, you know, whatever.

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It's like all pretty open and pretty chill.

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But you get closer to the city and for sure tons of traffic.

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And then the weather in New England is pretty wild.

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Like you can get crazy bands of intense snow and rain or frost or whatever in one area

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and then be completely clear or vice versa.

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So you'd like I'd be traveling sometimes and they'd be like, oh, we're not canceling school.

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And then I'm in Boston and it's like two and a half feet of snow.

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And I'm like, damn it.

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This sucks.

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But you just manage and yeah, it's quite a drive though, for sure.

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Yeah.

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So for those who aren't aware of the Dark Horse competition, I guess people like me.

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Sure.

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What's the history?

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What's the history?

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I'm definitely not the best person to talk about it, but I was involved for a while.

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So it was kind of this brainchild of Josh Larson, who's now the US team coach, Olympic

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coach, national coach, and Dave Wetmore, who's another level five national chief root setter.

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He's been involved with the U.S.A. climbing for very long.

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He's been the chief of Open Boulders.

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He's been on like every career imaginable and just like integral to the sport.

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So they kind of came up with this concept along with the owners of Metro Rock.

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And it was kind of one of the more like one of the first big scale private competitions

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with a large cash purse and a dedicated finals round in like a more grand setting.

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And so for me, it kind of kicked off that, you know, kind of competition climbing as

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we know it, as we see it in today's day and age a little bit more.

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So like I remember for the first time, like it was at one of those competitions where

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I saw like a true paddle move be set and climbed, you know, and I was like just completely floored.

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Like I didn't know that, you know, something like this could even exist.

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And the energy and the people, it was it was like a really special time, at least for me

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in competition climbing and route setting.

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Yeah, sounds like a lot of fun.

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Yeah, I can't.

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I think probably the first time I saw a paddle move, I was also just like mind blown.

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I was like, okay, and then outside of your climbing career, we were talking a little

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bit about it earlier.

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You're also a firefighter.

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And also, I don't actually know.

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I've like never met a firefighter, I think outside of maybe when you're like in elementary

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school and you are taken on a field trip to like something like that, you like see a fire

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truck or something.

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What's that like?

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And how do you manage that along with climbing?

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It's very different in most ways.

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What's that like?

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Yeah, I don't know.

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It's just a completely different world.

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I kind of love it because it's just such an opposite of what I do with climbing.

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All the guys at the fire station, they're just their career firefighters or in construction

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or they're in fishing or any number of trades.

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And then we do this and to kind of just like help out the town or in the surrounding communities

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and stuff like that.

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And it's cool because I just kind of can like shut off the climbing brain and I can focus

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on this other set of skills that are vital to success and different type of career path.

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I had no intention.

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Like I never grew up and was like, I want to be a firefighter.

238
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My wife and I moved up to back up to Massachusetts in 2020.

239
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We were living in Chattanooga for a long while.

240
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,800
We moved up here and then yeah, kind of long story short, they do like fire inspections,

241
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,720
I guess, when you purchase a house.

242
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And the person who's doing the fire inspection was also the captain of the department.

243
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And my brother, I guess, had been trying to get on the fire department and he was like,

244
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oh, are you the captain that was doing hiring?

245
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And he's like, oh yeah, like because of COVID, things got crazy, but you should come back

246
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,200
to the station and we'll do your interview like this weekend if that works for you.

247
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:48,880
And my brother was like, oh, that's awesome.

248
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,040
And then he looked at me and he's like, so what's your story?

249
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What are you doing?

250
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,720
And I'm like, I don't know, I just like moved across the country and like trying to start

251
00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:01,200
this like new business concept and I don't know, like just getting married.

252
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Like he's like, you should consider being a firefighter.

253
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:11,040
And I was like, no disrespect, like I have no fucking clue about anything to do with

254
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the fire service.

255
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:13,920
Like I'm probably not your guy.

256
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:19,660
And anyways, yeah, he explained the whole process and the support that the town gives

257
00:15:19,660 --> 00:15:27,240
and kind of like tangibles of an expectations on kind of either side of things and just

258
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:28,240
kind of tip my toe in.

259
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:35,160
And as I kept going, you know, coming around and moving forward, I was like, oh, this is

260
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:36,160
really cool.

261
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:41,080
Like this is really special and it's a really good group of people and everyone's like genuinely

262
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:42,080
there to help.

263
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,880
Like everyone who when you're responding to something, it's usually someone's like bad

264
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:46,880
day.

265
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:51,960
I don't know, people don't want to call 911, right?

266
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:52,960
It's like a bad thing.

267
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:57,280
And you're like something is occurring that you're like, damn it, this isn't good.

268
00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:01,260
So it's nice to be involved in a group of people who are like, yep, like we're here

269
00:16:01,260 --> 00:16:06,080
to help and we want to make a difference and try to make your day, you know, at least a

270
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,240
little bit better or not suck as much as it is.

271
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,480
So yeah, it's pretty wild for sure.

272
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:14,480
But I really enjoy it.

273
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,440
I don't know if you're recording recording on the beginning, but I don't know when when

274
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:19,440
you started recording.

275
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,360
But like yesterday, like I was saying, like, I like woke up at, you know, to my pager,

276
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,640
I have this like little pager here and it like goes off if there's like a serious thing

277
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,680
that they need us for and they alert us as to like where you're going and what you're

278
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,120
doing and what the situation is basically and like hurry the hell up and get to the

279
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:36,920
station basically.

280
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:43,020
And that was for a commercial Scalper that caught fire in the town over.

281
00:16:43,020 --> 00:16:48,240
And so first thing in the morning, go to the town over and you see a pretty big plume of

282
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,200
spoke from like, you know, eight miles away and you're like, oh, this is going to be

283
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,160
a it's going to be a morning for sure.

284
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,160
And it's definitely a juxtaposition from climbing where climbing can be a lot more

285
00:16:58,160 --> 00:16:59,960
peaceful if you'd like it to be.

286
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:03,360
It can be intense if you'd like it to be, can be kind of whatever you'd like it to

287
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,200
be because it's your own personal experience.

288
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,120
Like climbing is for everyone.

289
00:17:08,120 --> 00:17:14,320
All types of climbing are valid indoor, outdoor, trad, crazy cordadina, you know, like you

290
00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,640
get to pick your experience every single time that you like step on the wall.

291
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,800
Yeah, that's really cool.

292
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,520
I mean, both very physically demanding jobs, though.

293
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,680
Yeah, I'm noticing a theme in my life.

294
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:33,800
I could probably pick easier careers in terms of demand on my own body and mind.

295
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,000
But I guess there's something to it for me that I like.

296
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:42,240
Yeah, has it ever, I guess, like interrupted around setting that you're doing?

297
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,480
Or do you kind of separate those?

298
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,280
I try to separate them as much as possible.

299
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:53,320
So I do a ton of kind of my my full time gig now is I run a consulting firm for climbing

300
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:58,440
and route setting and athlete workshops and wall design, kind of the whole gamut, anything

301
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:04,320
under the umbrella of artificial climbing, wall management and whatever scope me and

302
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,260
my team kind of work on.

303
00:18:06,260 --> 00:18:12,960
So I try to be selective as to when I can schedule certain things, whether that be for

304
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,200
the fire department or for for myself for this business.

305
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:24,640
But generally speaking, like they're super flexible and allows me to be allows me to

306
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,480
do kind of both things.

307
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,840
I mean, I have minimum requirements I have to meet at the station to do this type of

308
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:35,400
training this much and I have to meet this many meetings or this many response, this

309
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,040
much response volume each year.

310
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,480
You know, there's like things I have to do, maintain certification, education, things

311
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:41,480
like that.

312
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:46,040
But as long as I'm hitting those or exceeding those, then all is well.

313
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:47,040
Awesome.

314
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:53,080
So we've discussed a bit of your route setting career, your firefighting career.

315
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,240
But this is like a climbing podcast, I guess.

316
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,880
So we'll get back into the route setting.

317
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:04,860
So you've discussed a bit about your setting journey in the US.

318
00:19:04,860 --> 00:19:08,520
How did you become an IFC route setter?

319
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:09,520
Great question.

320
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,940
And minor clarification or maybe major clarification.

321
00:19:12,940 --> 00:19:18,380
So I'm technically not like I would try to make sure that like this is like a people

322
00:19:18,380 --> 00:19:23,520
know this like so there's like a very, very rigorous and very specific and then arguably,

323
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:28,520
depending on you're talking about political process as to like what who gets their IFC

324
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:29,520
license.

325
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:30,720
So it's a very specific thing.

326
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,680
So I never want to take credit for that because I do not have that.

327
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:40,200
We do have a couple of folks in the US who do have that, which is awesome and aspiring

328
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,200
one day to hopefully get that opportunity.

329
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:49,520
But I've managed to work on a number of international events because there's like certain requirements

330
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:54,840
that say, okay, you need to have like this many route setters that are hired and hired

331
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,040
by the IFC.

332
00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:02,240
And then there's like a number of other slots that basically get filled by the host federation

333
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:06,560
of the event organizer, the head route setter kind of conglomerate.

334
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,680
So depending on what their needs are and what they what the expectations are of the event

335
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,280
or the event sponsors or the venue itself.

336
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,920
I mean, there could be any number of things that might make the event a little bit easier,

337
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:22,840
a little bit more logistically complex, typically if it's a little bit more logistically complex.

338
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,320
And I'm just like painting broad strokes here.

339
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:28,080
Like what I've found is they'll add an extra spot or an extra two spots in the setting

340
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,220
team because they're like, oh, things could get crazy.

341
00:20:31,220 --> 00:20:36,080
There's more likelihood that like a mistake could be made or that the schedule could get

342
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,120
shifted or the timelines could bounce around or you know what I mean?

343
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:43,760
So they try to like in those situations, like add a couple extra folks.

344
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,320
And then who they add is it's kind of like a three step process.

345
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,960
The chief chief has to be involved, the event organizer and host federation has to be involved

346
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:56,000
and the IFC has to kind of sign off on this.

347
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,640
So it's a little can be good can be quite complicated to be completely frank.

348
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,920
And I don't quite know my way around at all.

349
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:08,320
But I just put my my hat my name in the hat, I guess.

350
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,120
And especially last year, it was able to work out quite nicely.

351
00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:15,780
But I had experience prior to that.

352
00:21:15,780 --> 00:21:16,960
So my family is all from Poland.

353
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,600
I'm a Polish citizen, Polish citizen and American citizen.

354
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:29,600
And a few years ago, 2016, I went to visit my family in Poland and then also go on vacation

355
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,960
and.

356
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:40,320
Super long story short, ended up setting the European Youth Cup in Warsaw for its inaugural

357
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:45,640
event, which was kind of just shit luck, to be completely frank.

358
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,320
Another just lucky situation, maybe right place, right time.

359
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,920
I contacted Chris Danielson, who I referenced earlier, and I was, hey, you know, I'm going

360
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:54,280
to Poland and visiting my family.

361
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,720
I noticed that there's a competition series going on over there.

362
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:03,160
And like if you know, I don't know if you know anyone on that circuit or whatever, but

363
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:09,560
like I'd be more than happy to just like wash holds or tape or brush or I don't know, whatever,

364
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:14,260
just so I can like see what it's like to be involved in that type of circuit.

365
00:22:14,260 --> 00:22:20,680
Because at this point, I'd already set for numerous regionals, divisionals, dark horse,

366
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,420
private comps had done a number of nationals.

367
00:22:23,420 --> 00:22:27,760
So I like, you know, I kind of I had some familiarity with the U.S. circuit and I knew

368
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,040
that, OK, there's this other step and I just want to get involved and learn.

369
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,080
So I was like, well, you know, go hang out for a little bit, learn from these guys.

370
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:39,760
And Chris, you know, he was a busy guy, like he didn't really get back to me for a little

371
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:40,760
while.

372
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,440
And I'm like, that probably means that it's going to happen.

373
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,320
And I was a little bit like, oh, well, I'll still go and watch the comp, you know, no

374
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:48,920
worries.

375
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,920
And then the day we were leaving, I got a phone call from Chris and he's like, hey,

376
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:53,920
did you leave yet?

377
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,200
And I was like, no, I'm like literally about to leave to like hop in the car and go to

378
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,200
the airport in Atlanta.

379
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,240
And he's like, if do you want to root set for this comp?

380
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,120
Because something happened and two of the root setters got injured and they can't find

381
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:08,840
any replacements, like any qualified people.

382
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:13,240
And I was like, yes, yes, I do want to root set for this event.

383
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,360
So that's kind of what kicked it off.

384
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:22,100
And then I maintained these contacts and worked with these folks and other and other instances

385
00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:23,100
over the years.

386
00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:25,640
And yeah, here we are.

387
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:26,640
Okay.

388
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:27,640
Yeah.

389
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:35,320
So not an IFSC route setter, but I guess you kind of just got picked to route set for a

390
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:36,320
few of the competitions.

391
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,120
Yeah, I think it's kind of like, kind of like what I was referencing earlier, like they

392
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:44,000
already had their like official crew of people.

393
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,200
But there's like for for like each event, you know, like let's say the IFSC picks three

394
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,800
people like one chief and two official route setters.

395
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:57,480
Every comp that I was a part of this year had a minimum of eight, eight route setters.

396
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,160
So that's five other slots that are getting filled by the host federation.

397
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,720
You know, like so for us, that's USA climbing, right?

398
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,680
Or if it's, you know, Japan, it's the JMSCA.

399
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:17,160
So the chief might say, hey, you know, you got good recommendations from so and so, like

400
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:22,600
if you're around and we can get approval and IFSC checks off on this and the event organizers

401
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,640
cool like maybe you want to come join.

402
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:25,640
Yeah.

403
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:32,400
So it does require a lot of I guess like self-starting, you know.

404
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:38,640
So you know, like let's say for Hachioji, Remy, you know, message me and ask me, hey,

405
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,640
love to have you on the crew would be super nice.

406
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,000
I've enjoyed working with you.

407
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:48,080
In the past, we worked a couple of events together and he's like, but it's not, it's

408
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,880
not just like this like homeboy hookup situation.

409
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,000
You can't just like be on the crew because I say that you can be on the crew, which at

410
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,360
first I kind of honestly, I thought that's what it was.

411
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:00,400
Like to be completely frank, I was kind of like, that's just what it is, right?

412
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:01,840
Like that's just how this happens.

413
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:07,880
And it's not, it's like it, it helps to have contacts just like any industry, maybe on

414
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:08,880
planet earth, right?

415
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,760
It helps to know people who have involvement in the thing that maybe you want to be involved

416
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,840
in, but it is far from the buck stopping here, so to speak.

417
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:23,880
So after that, I had to contact like on my own, I had to contact the event organizer

418
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,080
and the director of sport for Japan.

419
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,680
And I was like pretty petrified because I had no clue what this meant.

420
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:36,240
And then they had a bunch of internal conversations.

421
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,400
I wrote a bunch of emails in Japanese.

422
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,600
Apparently, I didn't offend anyone too, too much.

423
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,160
The translator was my friend.

424
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,520
And just to like do the respectful thing, you know, try to do my best there.

425
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:53,280
And then once those two things got approved, I guess, the IFSC said, okay, cool.

426
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,080
Like this is Remy, this is your team.

427
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,400
Okay, have all these like check marks been made?

428
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,400
Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.

429
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:00,400
All right.

430
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:01,400
Now you're green light.

431
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,760
So that's a little bit of the behind the scenes, but it's not always that way.

432
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,120
So this is just my experience.

433
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:09,840
It's not like everyone's experience, always some other folks, if you interview them, they

434
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:11,800
might say like, oh, for me, it was different.

435
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,800
But that was more or less my experience over the past couple years.

436
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,400
Well, it's a very kind of long and windy experience, I guess.

437
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:31,480
I think, yeah, like the first guest I had talked to, Nicholas, Nikki, if you're familiar,

438
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:39,120
he was saying that there was maybe like a like a Google Sheet kind of deal.

439
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:43,080
And then you like sign up and then they choose people from that.

440
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,600
Or like signing up on a Google form or something like that.

441
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:52,480
Something just also very informal and like not a very strict process.

442
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:57,280
So now it's become even more confusing for me as to how they choose people.

443
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:58,280
Yeah, maybe.

444
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,320
Yeah, I'd love to talk to him.

445
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,880
I think I'll see him in a couple of weeks.

446
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,600
But that's all I'll ask him about this.

447
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,840
Maybe that has to do with their own internal Federation selection.

448
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:15,160
So from like a formal Federation selection process, they might say, OK, here's our list.

449
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,760
Like we at U.S. Air climbing, we do a version of this, right?

450
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:25,160
Hey, based on certification level and experience, this group of folks is qualified to represent

451
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,160
the U.S. So what we're going to do is we're going to have this application window.

452
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,840
Are you, you know, and then on that window, maybe they maybe they just have a Google form,

453
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,160
you know, to represent that application.

454
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,160
And then from there, maybe like for us, our route setting committee reviews it and then

455
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,240
our VP of sport reviews it and our CEO of U.S. Air climbing reviews it.

456
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:48,080
And then collaboratively selection is made based on the best representatives for our

457
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,840
country.

458
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:55,080
So maybe I would assume that the German Federation does something similarly.

459
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,080
Maybe that's what he's referencing.

460
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,080
But I don't know.

461
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,840
Yeah, it's a lot.

462
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,800
Maybe one day there'll be like a more formal.

463
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,160
I don't even know some kind of process.

464
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,140
Yeah, they're working on it.

465
00:28:06,140 --> 00:28:07,140
They're working on it.

466
00:28:07,140 --> 00:28:10,120
It's slow going, but yeah, one day.

467
00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:16,360
So yeah, you sat in a lot of World Cups in the twenty twenty three season.

468
00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:24,840
I think it was Hachioji, Prague, Innsbruck and then also the World Champs in Bern.

469
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,280
Of those, did you have like a favorite wall that you sat on?

470
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,160
Oh, that's a good question.

471
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:32,160
Favorite wall.

472
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,960
I'm trying to think back.

473
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:36,960
I don't know.

474
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,400
They're all like.

475
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:45,080
They're all so cool and so special for like totally different reasons.

476
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,800
You know, the the wall in Hachioji, I mean, like it's it's Hachioji Japan.

477
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,120
It's like the World Cup in Japan.

478
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,600
For me, that's always been on this massive pedestal.

479
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:55,600
I don't know why.

480
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,440
Just like maybe looking back historically, like watching those comps, I was always just

481
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:06,640
very engaged and always in my mind, I was like, man, be so cool one day to like just

482
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,400
have a chance to be a part of something like that.

483
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:14,160
So then with that being to like kick off the twenty twenty three season and until like

484
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,160
I had never been to Asia before, you know, for me, just like that whole it was the whole

485
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:23,760
combo, you know, and the wall itself, like from like a physical standpoint was like massive.

486
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,080
We had amazing resources.

487
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,920
GMSEA sent us like awesome, awesome, awesome holds all the hold manufacturers.

488
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,560
You know, they were like just cranking out awesome new shapes.

489
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:40,040
We got we got a lot of cool new holds to play with and create some cool, cool situations.

490
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,040
So that's special.

491
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:42,040
Right.

492
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,800
But then you could look at all the other ones like Prague and Innsbruck.

493
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,880
And I mean, Burn, like they're all just so special for their own ways.

494
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:48,880
Burn was cool.

495
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:49,880
It was in this huge venue.

496
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:55,640
One of my personal dreams, like I even had on a notepad somewhere like a journal that

497
00:29:55,640 --> 00:30:01,600
I was like from years ago, I was like, I just want to set an event in like a huge arena.

498
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,440
And I didn't really care really what the arena was or what the event was.

499
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:13,200
But I would look at like Adidas Rockstars or like the World Cup in or sorry, the European

500
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,140
Championships in Munich in twenty nineteen.

501
00:30:17,140 --> 00:30:18,320
Maybe it was.

502
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,560
And just seeing like, oh, they're at the Mercedes Arena or something like that.

503
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,560
And just being like, that's the pinnacle.

504
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:24,560
Right.

505
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,600
And then the arena for the sport that you're so passionate about.

506
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,160
And then to be involved in that.

507
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,680
Yeah, just like sometimes a little overwhelming almost just like stepping back and being like,

508
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,760
holy shit, like this is so cool.

509
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,320
And you got to reel it back in.

510
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:45,120
But, you know, it ends up like it hit me a lot, hit me a lot a lot of times.

511
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,240
So no, it's really cool.

512
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,000
You kind of like manifested it.

513
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,800
So that's always that's always good to hear.

514
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,960
But speaking of Hachioji and how much you enjoyed that process, that kind of sounds

515
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,320
like it was kind of your favorite based on how you're describing it.

516
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:09,440
It kind of reminded me of one of the comments that I saw in YouTube for that competition

517
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,600
about their outstanding.

518
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,440
So I guess we'll sort of segue into this segment where you're going to read all the hate comments

519
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:17,440
that I picked out.

520
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:18,440
Perfect.

521
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:24,880
This is bringing me back to like my commercial root setting days where we get like the little

522
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,600
oh, like comments box.

523
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,920
It's like one out of 15 is like, hey, nice job, guys.

524
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:32,920
Keep it up.

525
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:33,920
And the rest is like, this sucks.

526
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:34,920
Perfect.

527
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:41,280
So yeah, we'll get to see in real time what it's like when Routesitters read that.

528
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:47,200
Yeah, I think it reminded me of this one where I don't remember if I picked it or not.

529
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,880
You sounded really excited about Hachioji.

530
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,040
And I think one of the comments was like, oh, I think the Routesitters had like too

531
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:55,480
much time on this one.

532
00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:00,000
They like had too much fun with it and ended up being way overcooked.

533
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:07,400
But let me share the Google Drive with you and then we can open them.

534
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,080
Yeah, you can go for it.

535
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,080
Okay.

536
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,280
The root setting was one, too hard, especially since the semis already take a toll on basically

537
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:15,280
everyone.

538
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:16,280
Very fair point.

539
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:21,560
Two, not especially effective in terms of separation.

540
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,080
Arguable but fair.

541
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,680
Three, not fun to look at.

542
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:33,560
Depending on your perspective, again, arguable, but I see where they're coming from.

543
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,040
And then let's see, every year we seem to get more and more new school setting.

544
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,680
Now it's running dinos at about three meter height.

545
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:44,020
It's about like nine feet accurate.

546
00:32:44,020 --> 00:32:47,080
So we watched six people attempt the same move for about 30 minutes.

547
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,080
Great.

548
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,480
Why not involve more actual climbing moves?

549
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,560
You can still make it look appealing to a casual audience.

550
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,040
Make the moves 3D, involve knee bars, hooks, campus moves, et cetera.

551
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:00,000
There's so much bouldering that will look cool without resorting to parkour so often.

552
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,000
Cool.

553
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:08,080
I mean, the first thing is that it's nice that they kind of have like a, it's not quite

554
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,880
like if then statements, but it's constructive.

555
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,000
Maybe it's a little bit negative, but it's not like hate for hate's sake.

556
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,560
They're not like, this sucks.

557
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,440
I run a lot of clinics and I probably run 12 to 15 clinics a year and it's one of the

558
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,800
things we talk about with giving feedback is kind of like make it actionable or at least

559
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:32,280
express yourself why more than just like this is too reachy or this is bad.

560
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,080
That doesn't help too much.

561
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,600
So this person, Cedric, had some nice points.

562
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:39,600
Too hard.

563
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:40,600
So that's the first point.

564
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:41,600
Yes, absolutely.

565
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:48,960
I mean, no doubt at all, numerically or otherwise, that it was too hard, especially since the

566
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,440
semis already took a toll on basically everyone.

567
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,280
And yeah, they're not wrong.

568
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,520
First comp of the season, we haven't seen a World Cup.

569
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:06,600
We haven't seen really any high level route setting or competition climbing since, I mean,

570
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:07,600
Munich.

571
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:12,520
Yeah, Munich was 2022 European Championships.

572
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,160
So like myself and a few of the other route setters who were in Hachioji were on that.

573
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,120
We hadn't really seen anything or anyone since then.

574
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,600
You watch their, maybe their videos online like, oh wow, Yoshioki is looking real strong

575
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:30,040
or Miho looks amazing or, you know, Yanya is in peak form or whatever, right?

576
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,440
There's all these like things.

577
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,320
And then you get to the comp week and you're like, okay, we actually now have to make like

578
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,800
pretty real decisions on what we want these moves to look like and feel like and kick

579
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,820
it off with a bang and meet the obligations of the event while meeting the obligations

580
00:34:43,820 --> 00:34:47,380
of the audience.

581
00:34:47,380 --> 00:34:50,440
And so semis, semis are always hard.

582
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,160
Like that's just the way that it is.

583
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:56,460
You kind of have to have it that way to separate, to get as much separation as you possibly

584
00:34:56,460 --> 00:34:57,820
can going into finals.

585
00:34:57,820 --> 00:35:03,280
And then typically what that does is it allows us to have a better show for finals and we

586
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:10,240
can, we can play a little bit more with movements and things like that if we have like a harder

587
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:11,240
semis.

588
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:15,520
But it can bite you in the ass, which it did for us.

589
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:20,600
And that was because we set a really hard semis for both men's and women's.

590
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:25,040
And it, yeah, it was just like too much of a toll with not enough rest, I think, for

591
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,840
the athletes in between.

592
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,280
Let's see, next point.

593
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,120
It's kind of what we talked about, not especially effective in terms of separation.

594
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,760
It's like we got the separation, right?

595
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:42,480
So separation is, depending on how you want to look at it, maybe they're talking more

596
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:48,320
like relatively speaking, but like objectively separation is like, do we have a ranking?

597
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,520
One through whatever, 50.

598
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:55,280
And we did, we had a ranking, but it just wasn't like the ideal ranking probably because

599
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,680
of the way that optically the boulders performed, right?

600
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:04,000
Which kind of then bleeds into like 0.3, which is not fun to look at.

601
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:09,240
And yeah, straight up, it is like not that much fun to watch climbers try and fail, basically

602
00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:10,880
pulling off the mats, right?

603
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,880
For minutes at a time.

604
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,760
And then you're like hoping, ah, maybe this next athlete will figure it out and they don't

605
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:16,760
figure it out.

606
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:17,760
And you're like, damn it.

607
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,000
It's not fun for anybody.

608
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:24,200
The roots setters very, very, very, very much included.

609
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:34,160
I think that the latter points in this comment are a little bit, how do I say this?

610
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:42,160
Like how do I say this without even, it's not so simple.

611
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,600
It's not so simple to just say, like, why not just involve actual more climbing moves

612
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,840
to appeal to a casual audience and like add a knee bar or a heel or whatever.

613
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:57,160
Every single one of these athletes, like if you look at any World Cup, semifinals and

614
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:03,520
above for every event, and I don't even care, pick from 2020 onwards, nearly every single

615
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,520
one of these athletes minimum climbs 8B boulders.

616
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:08,600
Minimum.

617
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,480
They're like maddeningly strong.

618
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,140
They're so good.

619
00:37:13,140 --> 00:37:14,360
This is their full time job.

620
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:15,760
This is their life.

621
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,440
This is everything that they work for, train for, breathe for.

622
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:24,080
They have six opportunities per year to give their absolute all.

623
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:31,880
There's just like really not an effective, feasible way to put very straightforward,

624
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:45,300
traditionally set rock climbing moves on the wall and achieve that ranking and visual appeal.

625
00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:49,240
It gets to the point where it's quite ineffective, I think, actually.

626
00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:50,760
You still need to represent physical style.

627
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,880
You still need to represent climbing style.

628
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:54,880
Don't get me twisted.

629
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,480
That's not what I'm saying that like, oh, all these moves needs to be parkour or all

630
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,040
these moves need to be like crazy, crazy things.

631
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:07,400
But we have to introduce the concepts of risk, intensity and complexity in a very particular

632
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:12,300
and exciting way for both the athletes and the audience to make sure that we get that

633
00:38:12,300 --> 00:38:14,480
separation in that amount of time.

634
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:20,800
Because if we don't play with those other levels of risk and complexity and we just

635
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,160
lean on intensity, you kind of end up with a situation of a yes or no or a black or a

636
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:26,560
white or a zero or a one.

637
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:31,720
Either do the move or don't do the move and there's no chance of creating any sort of

638
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:33,920
crescendo effect.

639
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:35,920
You kind of saw this maybe at the World Cup in Prague.

640
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,840
There was a couple boulders that we set that were like the intensity during boulders and

641
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:45,240
literally nobody but like Janya could touch them because nobody was straight up strong

642
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:48,160
enough to pull on those holds.

643
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,040
So it was like kind of cool in a way because you're like, oh wow, look how much stronger

644
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,000
Janya is in the rest of the field.

645
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,000
Great.

646
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,800
But then you're still having the same situation occur where you're having five other people

647
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,280
prior or 19 other people prior depending on the round.

648
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,080
Kind of like try fail, try fail, try fail because it's just a yes or no question.

649
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,440
There's no way for them to get better and learn the movements in any amount of time.

650
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:10,720
Does that kind of make sense?

651
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:11,720
Yeah, that makes sense.

652
00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:16,920
And I guess in the Janya situation or I guess on the men's side, I don't think there's like

653
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:22,400
one guy that stands out as being so much stronger than anyone else.

654
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,000
I would agree with that.

655
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:25,000
For most things.

656
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:30,440
I mean, there definitely are stylistic climbers more so on the men's side.

657
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:35,160
Whereas the women's side, you kind of have Janya traditionally on all styles, maybe not

658
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,380
so much slab, but even then she's really good.

659
00:39:38,380 --> 00:39:44,880
And then there's a hyper competitive field with the women below that two through 15 or

660
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,360
something like that.

661
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,800
So yeah, it's great.

662
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:49,920
Great feedback though, for sure.

663
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,760
And it's not something that we didn't think about.

664
00:39:52,760 --> 00:40:00,080
Basically the summary of this is that we pushed too many new concepts too frequently or out

665
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,320
of the gate.

666
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:02,320
That was it.

667
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:07,600
This like crazy parkour thing that they're referencing, I think it was men's three, but

668
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:12,680
it was teal volumes and yellow holds and it was like a pretty difficult and tricky move

669
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:13,840
around the left side of the arete.

670
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,440
And then you ran it like, yeah, probably two and a half meters.

671
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,280
Did this like crazy parkour.

672
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,520
I mean, it wasn't parkour as much as it was like a paddle dyno, but it was like multiple

673
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,760
hand move paddle while also timing the feet quite high.

674
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:33,040
And I think it was just too late in the boulder to push that much.

675
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,240
Because if you get it wrong and you go too easy, then everyone just like stops and skips,

676
00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:38,240
stops and skips.

677
00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:43,640
And you saw this a couple of times in Meringen and I think in 2021 or 2022, where there was

678
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:48,160
a couple of instances of that where they aired on the side of a little bit of caution to

679
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,320
see more tops or more zones.

680
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:55,760
But then there were a notable number of instances where the climbers were like stronger than

681
00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:01,200
the boulder and they kind of, it didn't look as exciting for the audience especially too.

682
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,880
And then they got even less separation because they just kind of all ran it.

683
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:05,880
I see.

684
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:12,040
I think, yeah, another big one was probably the last boulder which was M4 with the jump

685
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,360
into the press.

686
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,600
But yeah, now people are used to that.

687
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:17,600
So I think it's...

688
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:24,920
Oh man, it's like, that's a boulder now where I just like, I would love, and there's no

689
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,920
way to do it, but I would love to like get all those athletes back on the wall, four

690
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,960
on four off, put that same boulder on the wall and then see what the results would be

691
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:34,960
because of the familiarity.

692
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:41,280
And we got a chance to do that in burn and we saw, it wasn't identical by any stretch,

693
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,480
but it was a very, very similar style of move.

694
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:50,960
And we saw, I think three of six got zoned and two top.

695
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,600
And one person was actually getting, there was a fourth person, I believe it was Nikolai,

696
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,120
got really close to getting zoned.

697
00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:01,280
So you almost had a four of six, whereas you saw zeros across the board for Hachi-Achi.

698
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:07,560
Yeah, it was very confusing to see, but I guess pretty much a brand new move.

699
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,280
I don't think we had seen it before.

700
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,880
Yeah, brand new move, I think, especially at that level.

701
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:18,960
I mean, maybe, I would imagine just like the probability is that someone has fooled around

702
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:24,480
with that move somewhere in the world and maybe set a version of it, but not on that

703
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,320
type of scale and that type of purity.

704
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:31,040
I mean, that was also maybe the problem is that there was no way around it.

705
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:36,920
It was, you had to do this and it was like just so complex because, and the complexity

706
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:38,040
was high because you'd never seen it.

707
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:39,520
So how do you know what you don't know?

708
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,840
When we were testing it, it felt like bananas for so long.

709
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,720
And then all of a sudden we just like took a break, got a coffee, put on some music and

710
00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:51,600
then Serhiu did the move, Remy did the move, I did the move, literally.

711
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,880
I have like a video, it was like a running video of just like bang, bang, bang.

712
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,120
And we were like, what?

713
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,600
We've been working on this for two hours, tinkering, whatever.

714
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,360
And then it's been right here like the whole time.

715
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,200
And I think we undersold that aspect of it to be completely honest.

716
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,280
We were like, oh, well, who the hell are we?

717
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,480
Like they'll definitely figure that it's Mejdi Shalke.

718
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,440
He's, we didn't know at the time, but he's like an Olympian now, right?

719
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,240
You have the best athletes in the world.

720
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:25,880
They're way better, but we didn't effectively turn the dial appropriately for the four-minute

721
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:31,400
window that they had for on-site and the fact that it was so, so, so new.

722
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:32,400
Yeah.

723
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,120
So that was the first comment for Hachioji.

724
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:40,000
And then I'll put images up of the comments as well as the boulders for people who are

725
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,080
watching on video.

726
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,560
So you can see that.

727
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,460
Let's actually move on to the Hachioji Men's 3.

728
00:43:47,460 --> 00:43:49,560
So this was the one I was talking about.

729
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:54,440
This one says, I just wish the setters would tone down the insanity next World Cup.

730
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,240
They might've had too much free time.

731
00:43:56,240 --> 00:44:00,320
They convinced themselves their boulder problems are possible in four minutes.

732
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:01,320
Yeah.

733
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,120
I mean, I think I kind of hit on that at the end there a little bit.

734
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:06,600
Like definitely I'll say this.

735
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,080
It was 100% not too much free time.

736
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:18,600
That was one of the more time restricted events due to the location of where we were hosting

737
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:19,600
it.

738
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,560
We were forced to, we couldn't enter the facility before a certain time and we had

739
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:29,920
to leave the facility by, I think it was 10 PM every single day, which typically we have

740
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:30,920
until there's no limit.

741
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:36,480
I mean, we'll be at the wall until 1 AM, 2 AM, 4 AM.

742
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:41,800
Like it's yeah, like, and it's not like because, oh, we're like just sitting there tinkering.

743
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:46,920
It's like the work has to get done and to dial this right.

744
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,000
That's just what it takes a lot of the time.

745
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,360
So we didn't have, we did not have too much free time.

746
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,520
If anything, maybe if we had more free time or more time in general, we would have been

747
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,160
able to calibrate a little bit better.

748
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,760
I would say that that could be a thing, but we did definitely convince ourselves that

749
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,760
the boulder problems were possible in four minutes because we wouldn't have left them

750
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:05,760
on the wall.

751
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:10,960
Otherwise we don't want to like see a bloodbath of athletes.

752
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:15,480
Like we want to create an environment where all the athletes have the best opportunity

753
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,640
to showcase their skills and succeed.

754
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,680
And it's up to them to make that happen.

755
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:21,160
That's what we want to see.

756
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:25,200
In the ideal world, you have this perfect crescendo and everyone's like getting closer

757
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,560
and higher and there's this battle and there's this back and forth and who's going to win

758
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:30,560
it.

759
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:31,560
You know, like that's super cool.

760
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,360
Like everyone loves that.

761
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,240
Yeah, we missed the mark on that one.

762
00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:39,720
But how do you know until you try?

763
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:42,640
And sometimes you just don't.

764
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:47,160
And I think sometimes you need to have these events that pushes things because we pushed

765
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:48,920
things.

766
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:54,440
And I think it allowed for like a pretty cool season, like on the whole, like, okay, Hachioji

767
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,480
was hard, but the season was awesome.

768
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:58,480
It had a story.

769
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:03,600
Like if you look at the season, like I'm sure Matt Groom could do, he's like awesome at

770
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:04,600
this shit.

771
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:09,840
He could probably put together a really cool 2023 story, you know, about all the feelings

772
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,920
and the emotion and the timeline.

773
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:17,640
And you don't get that from having identical, perfect events because I honestly, I think

774
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:19,440
the sport becomes kind of boring.

775
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:21,800
You know, like if it's always if you always know what's going to happen, then why the

776
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:22,800
hell are you watching?

777
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,800
Yeah, good point.

778
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:31,320
Hachioji man comment for that I took just a couple, I guess, like the first sentences

779
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,440
I wanted to go over.

780
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,120
I feel like at least two setters should have to be able to top any set.

781
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,960
Also, it would be nice to see a top from the centers during the boulder preview.

782
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:45,760
Oh, I don't know what they mean exactly by the top any set.

783
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,520
I guess, like any of the boulders.

784
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:54,240
Yeah, like all these like all the moves went somebody did.

785
00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:56,240
Somebody did the moves.

786
00:46:56,240 --> 00:46:57,240
Maybe that was me.

787
00:46:57,240 --> 00:46:58,240
Maybe that was for me.

788
00:46:58,240 --> 00:46:59,240
Maybe that was Olga.

789
00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:00,840
Somebody did something at some point in time.

790
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:06,240
And most of the time, I'll say it is one to three people.

791
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:07,240
Any more than that.

792
00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:08,240
It's unreasonable.

793
00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:09,240
You're wasting skin.

794
00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:10,240
You're wasting energy.

795
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:13,680
We should be good enough at our jobs to like evaluate a setter's performance and how they're

796
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:20,280
moving on the wall and be able to provide and use feedback from our standpoint as well

797
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,640
as what the setter is feeling while they're testing on the wall.

798
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:33,200
There are unique situations where we'll lean on one person because it might be an extremely

799
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,200
hyper specialized skill set.

800
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:36,200
Right.

801
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,880
Or it could also be like we're super running low on time or we're super running low on

802
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:40,880
energy or skin.

803
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,680
And like, hey, Ginny, you have this move dialed.

804
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:48,840
Can you just like keep running this and we can keep tinkering and then, okay, Cody, you

805
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:53,200
can try the different ways to cheat it because you're finding this strange way that only

806
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,360
you or someone who's climbs like you can cheat it.

807
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,000
So like we'll play off of one another.

808
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:00,000
You know what I mean?

809
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,000
So, but that's not to say that that's that's the exception.

810
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:04,580
That's not the rule.

811
00:48:04,580 --> 00:48:09,280
So a lot of times we do actually we do mean we do these moves.

812
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,080
We're not we're not ever setting a boulder, though.

813
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:16,480
We don't ever there's unless we're like chilling and like things are great and we have like

814
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:17,480
free time.

815
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,320
No one's ever like said, he always says it's like, okay, one more time for the culture,

816
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,680
for the culture, you know, and he's like, it's like a funny thing.

817
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,560
Like he just because he wants to be a better climber and he wants to be, you know, to learn

818
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:27,560
these things.

819
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:28,680
But like that happens this much.

820
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:36,080
Like we just don't have the time or the energy to to invest into like full sense.

821
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:40,840
So we have to calibrate our experiences based on the sections and all the sections go and

822
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,680
all the boulders they go for sure they go.

823
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:48,320
But we could be asking too much at certain times or not enough or not enough.

824
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,820
How do you do is too much.

825
00:48:50,820 --> 00:48:54,840
It would be cool to see like top from the setters during boulder preview.

826
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,120
But to be frank, that's a lot to ask.

827
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:01,200
I mean, any of these weeks, if they're talking about it live, there's just no fucking way.

828
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:08,160
There's just no way to like go out during whatever finals or and like at that point,

829
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,040
you've already.

830
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:14,920
I mean, some of those days, let's say for qualities, we might finish setting and taping

831
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:20,480
qualities, let's just say at Thursday night at midnight or one a.m., two a.m. get to the

832
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:27,560
wall at seven where they're from seven until all the way maybe until again, one a.m., two

833
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,760
a.m., three a.m. between stripping the wall after watch everyone climb and strip the wall

834
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:37,320
and put up semis and make adjusting for semis and take tape, tighten those right.

835
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:42,080
Then you're back on the wall three hours later to watch or four hours to watch semis.

836
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:43,080
Then you what you know what I mean?

837
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,880
Like it just ends up and that's not including the entire week prior.

838
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,800
You're just like.

839
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,520
That's not our job is to like the it's the job of the athletes to perform.

840
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,640
It's not the job of the setters to like show the athletes how to do it.

841
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:59,280
Because if I could just if I have to a 70 hour work like that, I could just fire boulders

842
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:00,280
on command.

843
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:04,200
I promise you I wouldn't be resetting and I would be climbing in a World Cup.

844
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:07,000
I'd be I'd try to be an athlete.

845
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:11,800
And I guess like it wouldn't really I mean, usually the athletes top it.

846
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,600
So don't really need to see a route setter top it.

847
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:19,200
I guess it was just in this one instance where nobody had talked and people really wanted

848
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:20,800
to see what was going on.

849
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:21,800
Yeah.

850
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:27,800
I think I don't know when that comment was like posted or whatever, but I did post like

851
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,800
I'd never posted reels before on Instagram.

852
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:35,320
I didn't really know how that works, but I made a reel and it like showed the moves.

853
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,600
It was like it's I've been doing it for each World Cup now.

854
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:43,880
It's like testing versus setting or sorry, testing versus athletes or something like

855
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:44,880
that.

856
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:45,880
I forget what I titled it.

857
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,480
So it just takes an event, takes just random highlight moves, basically more or less if

858
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,760
I had my camera running or not, which sometimes I do and sometimes I don't.

859
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:57,840
And so, hey, here's somebody on the team doing a move or not doing a move, depending.

860
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,560
And then like here's the athlete doing the move or attempting to move in a different

861
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,920
way or the same way and like seeing like a before and after.

862
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:06,560
And it people seem to like it.

863
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:07,560
Like it's kind of cool.

864
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:11,520
It's kind of I think it's like I think it's fun, you know, and it shows that like, hey,

865
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,560
we actually do this and we try our best.

866
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:16,360
And it's definitely we're not trying to like screw people.

867
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,840
We're trying to create great fields and great moments.

868
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:24,080
Like it's we're definitely not root setting in any way, shape or form for like the money

869
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,600
or the fame, because that just doesn't exist.

870
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:27,800
We just love it.

871
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:28,800
We're passionate about it.

872
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:33,480
And so just like to share that with people, I think is the number one thing.

873
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:41,520
Yeah, I'll link that first video in the show notes for people to see.

874
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:47,240
But OK, moving on to Prague, I think also men's.

875
00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:49,280
So Prague men's two.

876
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:54,400
This one says maybe the center saw M4 and misread it as before.

877
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,760
Oh, I remember this one.

878
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,160
Yeah, I had a lot of involvement in this one.

879
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,600
That was tough.

880
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:05,800
The summary is that conditions matter.

881
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:10,000
We were for running this boulder.

882
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:11,840
We had to have a screen cover up.

883
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:12,840
That was part of it.

884
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:13,840
So it was like an open air venue.

885
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:18,040
We had to keep a screen cover up, otherwise everyone would see us testing and forning,

886
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:22,880
including athletes and coaches and people could video like people walking by the street.

887
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:23,880
So there was that.

888
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:30,040
And then it was also probably like 85 degrees with no wind.

889
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,120
So you add that to it.

890
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,040
And it was like a literal oven in this venue.

891
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,260
And even at sometimes we tried to move the screen around or whatever.

892
00:52:38,260 --> 00:52:39,400
It just didn't matter so much.

893
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:46,040
It was so absurdly hot during the days that there were some very, very strong roots setters

894
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:47,040
on this team.

895
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:54,680
And they were having trouble dead hanging certain holds, just holding them, much less

896
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:56,320
moving to and from them.

897
00:52:56,320 --> 00:53:00,120
And we were actually quite worried for that entire round that we were way overcooked the

898
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,440
round, especially M4.

899
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:09,560
I was like, we sometimes will place estimations or predictions on how we think the round will

900
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:10,560
go.

901
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:12,360
And I think every roots setter had like men's four.

902
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:16,000
I was like, I don't know if it goes, but I don't know if they'll do it.

903
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:17,000
You know what I mean?

904
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,880
We're going to create a moment where someone's going to do this move and that's going to

905
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,840
be the reason that they get gold.

906
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:27,120
And boy, oh boy, was that not the case.

907
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,480
The temperatures dropped.

908
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:33,680
They had to have gone down till we should look and see.

909
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:35,120
It felt freezing.

910
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:44,280
People were in sweatshirts, puffy's, gloves, hats, like people in the crowd.

911
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:45,280
You know what I mean?

912
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,800
It was frigid and it made the entire world of a difference.

913
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:53,000
That fiberglass just like, I mean, if anyone's ever climbed on sandstone, whether that's

914
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:59,680
at font or at horsepans or in Chattanooga or anything like, you know, we have like slopey

915
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:03,760
sandstone, the fiberglass can feel sometimes similarly to that, or at least how your skin

916
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,160
and your hands and your body reacts to that.

917
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,960
If it's really hot and greasy and sweaty, you know about it.

918
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:13,520
If it's cold and sticky and almost feels velcro-y, again, you know about it.

919
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:21,120
So that's a tough one to deal with, but you know, sometimes that's just the game we play.

920
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:27,320
And I don't know if there's a great solution on how to fix that, but we could probably

921
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:31,240
try to be more, if nothing else, a little bit more aware.

922
00:54:31,240 --> 00:54:36,680
I won't say shy away from certain moves, but just be more aware that like these situations

923
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:42,140
could occur if, you know, the weather is this or the conditions are that.

924
00:54:42,140 --> 00:54:46,880
So do you look at the weather of the day of the comp when you're setting?

925
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:47,880
Yeah.

926
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:48,880
Yeah.

927
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:52,000
So part of the thing that we didn't pay attention to is the wind, the wind picked up quite a

928
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:53,000
bit too.

929
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:57,160
So it was like whatever, however many degrees, which was like much colder, but not that much

930
00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:59,480
colder, but then you added no wind to a ton of wind.

931
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:04,560
I mean, we were like, everyone there was in tank tops or in shorts with maybe no shirt

932
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,440
on or something like that and pouring sweat.

933
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,020
Couldn't even keep chalk on the hands.

934
00:55:09,020 --> 00:55:12,280
And then, like I said, you know, you fast forward 12 hours or whatever it is.

935
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:18,080
And before you know it, you're like completely bundled up like a, you know, like you're going

936
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,880
out to brave the North and yeah.

937
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:27,440
So yeah, a little bit of a miss there, but I think we still got the separation for the

938
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:28,440
run.

939
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:29,440
Yeah.

940
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:34,160
Good to know what you were hoping to see because that makes a lot more sense for like the last

941
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:39,760
boulder that you would want it to be hard and show separation.

942
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,360
So that that makes a lot of sense.

943
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:43,480
Okay.

944
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:49,200
Let's do prognosis for that photo.

945
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:54,720
Are they bad at calibrating the difficulty of static climbing to the climbers when they

946
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:57,640
don't have a million dinos?

947
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:02,320
It's nice to see some more strong and static climbing again, at least hope that keeps up

948
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,960
and they figure out the difficulty.

949
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:09,960
Also really felt like there should have been one or two more moves on M4.

950
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,120
I think this one they're talking about M3.

951
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:15,120
Yeah.

952
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:23,080
If they're talking about M3, I'd say, I think we kind of nailed that one.

953
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,040
If I remember that was the slab.

954
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,400
Yeah, I think they liked that one.

955
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,920
But then it says they're bad at calibrating the static.

956
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:33,800
I'm not really sure what this this comment.

957
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:35,560
Yeah.

958
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:37,600
Because I think maybe it was a different moment.

959
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:43,120
Maybe it was, but it's kind of like a reference.

960
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:46,240
I mean, we're trying to create a really diverse field of play.

961
00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:52,140
You know, like if Cody and Ginny are our field and Ginny is really, really good at cordo

962
00:56:52,140 --> 00:56:57,760
dinos and Cody's really, really good at slab and the route setters put even accidentally,

963
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:03,000
they put like two of the four boulders are more slow and static and slabby and maybe

964
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:10,080
only start to zone is a cordo move, then the likelihood is that if all other things are

965
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:14,520
remaining equal, Cody has a massive advantage at this competition and Ginny has a hard time.

966
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:20,720
So we try to create a fair field of play throughout start to zone, zone to top, you know, at different

967
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,960
points throughout the wall.

968
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:28,280
I would like to think we're not bad at calibrating difficulty, but maybe some folks think that

969
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,800
in certain instances.

970
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:33,440
And we can always be better if nothing else.

971
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:34,440
That's for sure.

972
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:35,960
We can always get better.

973
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:44,160
And for the record, that's not the reason why I would do worse on the comp folder in

974
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:48,080
case anyone was wondering.

975
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:53,920
And then for Prague women's, there wasn't much in the comments except for congrats for

976
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:58,320
Oriane, who I think won that one instead of Yanya.

977
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:04,800
And I think you wanted to talk about this a bit, which was why you think she managed

978
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:07,600
to win that comp over Yanya.

979
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:09,720
Oh, yeah.

980
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:16,120
So I think that this is kind of like a testament to I think we had a quite nice round actually

981
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:20,840
in terms of diversity of style.

982
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,680
And it allowed Orion to shine through.

983
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:25,160
I mean, it wasn't a perfect round.

984
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,640
There were again, there were some things that I think if we looked back, we would have liked

985
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:29,600
to see maybe a little bit differently.

986
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,040
But the way that the round played out, again, all the athletes are climbing on the same

987
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:35,160
boulders and the best climber won that day.

988
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,120
And the best climber was Orion.

989
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:43,600
And Orion topped the slab in the most graceful, beautiful style.

990
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,040
But I've seen someone climb a slab in a really long time.

991
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:48,120
It was really, really impressive.

992
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,160
She smashed it.

993
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:54,520
And it was kind of a moment I was like, I think she came out, don't quote me on this,

994
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:55,520
I think she came out last.

995
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,600
I think she came out, like she was in sixth place.

996
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:02,160
So I mean, she came out first, actually, is what I'm trying to say.

997
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:06,520
And I watched it and I was like, shit, this boulder is way too easy.

998
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:10,440
We're going to have like people just go through this thing.

999
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:11,840
And it was not the case, Orion.

1000
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:18,800
It just like really showcased how exceptional she is at the style of climbing.

1001
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:19,800
And then you get to Yanya.

1002
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:25,760
And if I remember correctly, Yanya did not do the boulder.

1003
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:31,320
There was conversation during the comp that might have had to do with her foot injury.

1004
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:37,640
Yanya dealt with a foot injury, which is also why she wasn't in Hachioji or in Salt Lake.

1005
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:42,040
She had like, I think she broke her toe or something like that.

1006
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:43,040
And you could see it.

1007
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:46,600
I think even though I was watching the shoes that she was putting on and she had like hyper

1008
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:50,240
stiff shoes for the slab.

1009
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:54,320
And I think it was to protect her foot, protect her toe.

1010
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:59,520
But that combined with maybe sensitivity or maybe even hesitancy on if she was ready for

1011
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:00,520
that.

1012
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:02,060
I don't know.

1013
01:00:02,060 --> 01:00:03,920
She just didn't do the boulder.

1014
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:08,800
She always wears like the 5'10 high angles though, right?

1015
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,000
And that is a stitch shoe.

1016
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,000
Maybe that actually has nothing to do with it then.

1017
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:18,160
But watching her on it, it seemed like she had like an ice skate on comparatively to

1018
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,800
Orion.

1019
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:21,800
So that was really cool to see.

1020
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:27,120
And then they both did boulder four, which is like that like Kordo campus thing.

1021
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:28,520
The top was maybe a little bit too easy.

1022
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:32,520
I think, or wait, that was maybe that was boulder two.

1023
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:34,520
Either way, there was a black and yellow Kordo boulder.

1024
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:37,660
That was, I think, the other determining factor that they both topped.

1025
01:00:37,660 --> 01:00:41,880
And I think had that boulder been a little bit harder, you would have seen Yanya maybe

1026
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:47,400
win because then Yanya topped the most physically demanding boulder.

1027
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:51,520
And she did that in like just incredible style.

1028
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,800
She like really set herself apart in terms of the raw power.

1029
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:58,440
But I think that was kind of cool because like the determining factor for me in that

1030
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:05,680
round was like, it's showing that climbing is not unilateral, right?

1031
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:06,680
It's multifaceted.

1032
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:10,600
And Orion won this comp, in my opinion.

1033
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:12,840
She showcased a lot of her skills really, really, really well.

1034
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:16,720
But then she really stood out with her like technical expertise.

1035
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:19,480
And yeah, we represented that in a way and she had her win.

1036
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:21,800
So that was cool.

1037
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,240
Yeah, really cool to see.

1038
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:28,400
Okay, so now on to Innsbruck.

1039
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:30,420
Women's won.

1040
01:01:30,420 --> 01:01:37,480
This was a really long comment, so I'm just going to read through certain parts of it.

1041
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:41,520
Feel free to read through it on your own if you want later.

1042
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:45,520
And then I'll also put the whole photo in the video.

1043
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:51,560
But yeah, let me just go through some of the points that they made.

1044
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:56,200
So the route centers created the worst routes I've ever seen to ruin what could have been

1045
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,320
so thrilling.

1046
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:03,000
Jump on W1 literally being a height contest.

1047
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:08,440
W2, which was the only technical slab being the most straightforward flashable slab that

1048
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:11,560
created absolutely no separation in skill.

1049
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:17,480
W3 has a jump that's literally impossible for Innsbruck, regardless of if they skipped

1050
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,800
leg day or not.

1051
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:24,600
Also has a slab on there, which probably belongs in a modern art museum because it's served

1052
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:25,960
no purpose.

1053
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:31,000
W4, again, being impossible for Innsbruck because of their height.

1054
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:36,040
And asking them to be fully stretched, holding on with their fingertips and swaying 90 degrees

1055
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:42,200
into a fully stretched toe hook while still holding onto your fingertips, et cetera, et

1056
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:43,200
cetera.

1057
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:49,240
So yeah, a lot of height dependent comments in this one.

1058
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:52,240
Yeah.

1059
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:53,240
So much more.

1060
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:54,240
I'm like still reading.

1061
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:55,640
Yeah, go for it.

1062
01:02:55,640 --> 01:03:00,600
No, it's like so, I mean, I think I'll say this much.

1063
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:05,800
If someone has, this person has a lot of very strong feelings on the competition in general.

1064
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:09,920
So I don't think that even if I could sit down with them and have a conversation, they

1065
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:14,800
may or may not change their views.

1066
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:21,720
But I will say that there are a few things on here that objectively, not objectively,

1067
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:28,080
that I just kind of from a, I just disagree with.

1068
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:32,760
Number one, jump on number one being a height contest.

1069
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:41,920
That situation, if you like look back at the video, like the replay, you have to jump.

1070
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:43,520
Yes.

1071
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:48,080
You have to leave the ground to achieve the hold.

1072
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:52,760
And okay, if you're a little taller, yes, it is a little easier.

1073
01:03:52,760 --> 01:04:04,040
That jump, it couldn't have been a more straightforward, simplistic demand of leg power.

1074
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:08,000
Like out of all the things that we ask of the athletes and coordination and jumping

1075
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:15,520
and springiness and hot feet and toe catches and all, like it is purely, like can you,

1076
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:21,760
can you just, and I just doesn't have leg power and she'd be the first to tell you.

1077
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,400
She'll be the first to tell you like Brooke did it.

1078
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:25,400
No problem.

1079
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:30,400
Brooke is yes, a little bit taller than I, maybe by what an inch or something.

1080
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:31,400
Brooke's five two.

1081
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:32,400
I don't know what I is.

1082
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:33,400
Maybe I's five one.

1083
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:37,080
We could probably look and see, but like you watch Brooke and she like does it and she

1084
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:38,960
does it and she does it.

1085
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:43,520
To me, I actually use that as an example sometimes for folks as like, yeah, we do the best that

1086
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:50,640
we can do, but optics go way farther than what our interpretation of the round might

1087
01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:51,640
be.

1088
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:53,320
Like, we could have a conversation about this round.

1089
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:54,320
The roots that are going to have a conversation.

1090
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:57,680
Hell, anyone can have a conversation, the coaches and they could all say, everyone could

1091
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:02,760
say the same thing that yeah, that was like a leg power issue there, which I would to

1092
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:06,280
my dying day say that's a leg power issue.

1093
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:11,440
But optically there's millions of other people who are watching this competition and interpreting

1094
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:14,080
their own feelings based on what they're seeing.

1095
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:17,040
And optically it looked fucking terrible.

1096
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:18,040
It looked real bad.

1097
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:23,040
We have the smallest athlete unable to do this jump move over and over and over and

1098
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:24,920
over and eventually though she did it.

1099
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:25,920
And why did she do it?

1100
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:30,040
She jumped a little bit more and climbing is not perfect.

1101
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:32,720
It's far from fair.

1102
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:39,640
Vertical jumps without any shadow of a doubt are the least fair move I would say for a

1103
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:41,080
shorter climber.

1104
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:44,360
Basically the taller you are, the easier those moves will be.

1105
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:50,200
That being said though, there are quantifiably more difficult moves for folks who are taller.

1106
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:58,360
For example, bicycles in increasingly horizontal roof that are tight.

1107
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:02,920
So like, I mean, I can't really show it here, but like I can only get my foot so close to

1108
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:07,160
my face and the closer I pull my foot to my face, the more I have to engage in more like

1109
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:11,840
my back sags and the more my core has to compensate for that as well as my lower back.

1110
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:15,560
Whereas I don't know how tall you are, but if you're under six feet, then you're going

1111
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:20,040
to be in increasingly a little bit more comfortable position, right?

1112
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:24,240
And that box gets more comfortable as you get smaller, which means that you're actually

1113
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:25,960
going to have a greater likelihood of success.

1114
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:27,700
Again, all things remaining equal.

1115
01:06:27,700 --> 01:06:30,200
So it's our job to sometimes play off of this.

1116
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:35,660
Whereas like you can't just say, okay, well, I was in the comp, so no jumps just as much

1117
01:06:35,660 --> 01:06:39,800
as you can't say, Kai Lightner is in the comp, so no jumps, right?

1118
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,240
Because he's just on the opposite end of the spectrum.

1119
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:45,080
We just have to find ways to do our best.

1120
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:46,080
Again, we're humans.

1121
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:51,000
We're definitely, there is no science in terms of like, we don't have a rubric or something

1122
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:54,840
that we can follow to tell us how to do our job.

1123
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:59,920
So we have to do our best to gauge this level and dictate what's appropriate.

1124
01:06:59,920 --> 01:07:04,800
For what it's worth, and maybe it's not much, but we had a couple of folks on the team who

1125
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:11,600
actually work and have worked with I quite a lot who are on the root setting team.

1126
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:15,920
And they made the final calls on whether this height was appropriate.

1127
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,720
And they were like, we had that thing up probably another eight inches.

1128
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:24,280
And maybe 20 minutes before the comp, we were like, is this too high?

1129
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:26,560
Like me and the chief actually were like, is this too high?

1130
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:27,560
Is this too high?

1131
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:30,280
And then we called over some of these Japanese guys and we're like, hey, is it too high?

1132
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:31,680
And they're like, no, no, no, it's fine.

1133
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:33,720
But like, if you're really worried about it, bring it down.

1134
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:35,040
And we're like, I think we should bring it down.

1135
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:36,760
And they're like, I mean, she's going to do it.

1136
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:38,260
She's so good.

1137
01:07:38,260 --> 01:07:45,320
Imagine if we left it up like eight inches, like the world would have burned.

1138
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:47,700
So we use the information to the best of our ability.

1139
01:07:47,700 --> 01:07:49,160
They weren't trying to hose us.

1140
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:50,800
They were trying to give us valid information.

1141
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:55,160
They're like, oh yeah, based on our experiences when we've trained or workshopped with I in

1142
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:59,800
the past, she is capable of doing X, Y, or Z.

1143
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:04,680
And we have like reference points to kind of like go along with that.

1144
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:10,640
And this kind of like meets or exceeds our expectations of her on this style of move.

1145
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:11,640
So what do we do?

1146
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:18,000
We say, all right, well, let's lower it to be safe and move on.

1147
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:22,880
Other things, women's too, which is only the quote technical slab.

1148
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:27,920
I mean, it's kind of like I said earlier, you really, we have four boulders.

1149
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:32,200
So we need to represent different styles in different ways.

1150
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:36,680
Having 25% of the competition made technical slab to me is good.

1151
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:39,040
Like that's if we have more than that, it's a problem.

1152
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:41,040
If we have less than that, it's a problem.

1153
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:42,280
So I don't know.

1154
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:46,620
Maybe their comment there is about the separation and that too many of the women did it.

1155
01:08:46,620 --> 01:08:55,320
Maybe we could have made that technical slab a little bit more complex or technically demanding.

1156
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:56,480
I wouldn't disagree with that.

1157
01:08:56,480 --> 01:08:58,280
I think that's a fair thing.

1158
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:04,920
But yeah, let's see what else.

1159
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:08,520
When four being impossible, most of this was about, yeah, I'm trying to like, I'm trying

1160
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:09,840
to at least like address each point.

1161
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:14,040
I don't know if these folks like follow you or, or listen in because it'd be cool to like

1162
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:18,720
at least try to address some of the, I guess I won't touch any more of the height thing.

1163
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:21,520
I mean, they talked about women's four being impossible fire, Brooke.

1164
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:24,640
I don't think that's the case.

1165
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:28,200
Maybe it's a bit harder, but then I also find strange ways of getting through things.

1166
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:34,600
Like we saw that in the semi finals round as well on that yellow and orange folder.

1167
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:39,640
But I will, I will kind of clap back here and say when they said it's, it's pretty

1168
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:43,000
clear that the roots that is completely tunnel visioned on Yanya and created big leaps, leaps

1169
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:47,100
and dynamic power moves that would really thought we'd slow her down a little bit.

1170
01:09:47,100 --> 01:09:50,820
And I'm glad that Yanya flashed every boulder embarrassed the roots setters really consider

1171
01:09:50,820 --> 01:09:53,760
an ignorant root design to not consider the whole field.

1172
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:58,280
We that couldn't be like that could not be farther from the truth.

1173
01:09:58,280 --> 01:09:59,280
I'll just say that.

1174
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:06,520
Like I usually like to be like pretty, I don't know, open.

1175
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:07,520
That's not the case.

1176
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:11,880
Like we do not focus on one single climber.

1177
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:13,960
We do not favor climbers.

1178
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:18,760
We do not like it's our job to create the best field of play that we possibly can.

1179
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:23,360
And it's not our fault that Yanya is fucking incredible.

1180
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:25,800
She is really, really, really, really, really good.

1181
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:31,640
And if we were actually trying to do that, like make this, this game only for Yanya,

1182
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:35,760
then literally, I don't know if anyone else would do any zones, much less top boulders.

1183
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:41,640
She is that far above and beyond, at least when I saw her last and burn, she is exceptional.

1184
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:42,860
So that's just not the case.

1185
01:10:42,860 --> 01:10:46,720
That's never, I don't ever want anyone to even read a comment on YouTube and think that

1186
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:52,480
there's any sort of bias towards any individual athlete or nation or team.

1187
01:10:52,480 --> 01:10:54,240
Like it's just not the thing.

1188
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:55,760
That's why the teams are also diverse.

1189
01:10:55,760 --> 01:11:00,520
They come from, there's men and women from all different nations.

1190
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:01,920
That's why the chiefs switch.

1191
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:06,280
It's not just a chief from this country, right?

1192
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:13,440
It's constantly and typically maybe there's some continuity between comps and maybe a team

1193
01:11:13,440 --> 01:11:18,600
will have a couple of members that were on, let's say Innsbruck this year and maybe next

1194
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:19,600
year.

1195
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:29,240
So again, it's in favor of creating opportunity and new styles and new representation to make

1196
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:36,440
it as open and have no favoritism, have the least amount of favoritism as possible.

1197
01:11:36,440 --> 01:11:38,880
So maybe there was some misses.

1198
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:41,560
Again, it's not an easy job.

1199
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:46,200
And I wish it sometimes when I see someone say things like that, I'm like, man, I just

1200
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:51,760
wish you could come climb in our shoes for a day and just to really understand some of

1201
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:56,800
the decisions that were made because we're truly, from the bottom of my heart, speaking

1202
01:11:56,800 --> 01:12:00,960
for the other setters who are on these careers, truly trying to do our best to create the

1203
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:07,120
best field of play and an exciting round and separation and represent diversity of body

1204
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:09,960
styles and represent the sponsors.

1205
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:10,960
And you know what I mean?

1206
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,200
There's a lot of things that we're trying to do.

1207
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:17,760
And yes, at this level, it's our job to meet or exceed all of those things.

1208
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:22,600
But we're not perfect and we do miss things.

1209
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:24,880
So it's a bummer that person feels this way.

1210
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:27,720
But I love you.

1211
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:34,040
It'd be interesting if the IFSC could put out some extra, maybe just short video that

1212
01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:38,000
shows a little bit of the behind the scenes during the setting process that they could

1213
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:46,040
put out with the comp and just get some thoughts on what the setters think they were hoping

1214
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:51,560
to accomplish there, any reservations that they may have had during the setting process.

1215
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:54,680
I think maybe that could help clear up a lot of things.

1216
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:55,840
I think you're right.

1217
01:12:55,840 --> 01:13:01,800
They were doing a little bit of that last year through Matt.

1218
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:02,800
There's a couple of moments.

1219
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:07,480
A lot of times too, Matt would do it through other channels as well.

1220
01:13:07,480 --> 01:13:10,400
It wasn't necessarily an IFSC thing.

1221
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:14,120
So depending on where you got your information from, you may or may not have seen some of

1222
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:15,120
that information.

1223
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:21,000
But yeah, it'd be cool almost if it was during the feed, during the comp, if there were moments

1224
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:26,920
almost like commercial breaks that were like, hey, and then here's Ginny with 30 seconds

1225
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:30,440
behind the scene of what her experience was like setting this World Cup or whatever.

1226
01:13:30,440 --> 01:13:31,440
Yeah, I think you're right.

1227
01:13:31,440 --> 01:13:35,840
I think if nothing else, both competitively and commercially, the thing that I always

1228
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:46,880
find or I have historically found is a huge factor in people's, I won't just say happiness,

1229
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:56,160
but just the overall caliber of their experience wherever that lands is personifying the experience.

1230
01:13:56,160 --> 01:14:01,960
There aren't little leprechauns and fairies who wave wands and make these things happen.

1231
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:02,960
They're people.

1232
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:03,960
It's me.

1233
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:04,960
It's you.

1234
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:05,960
It's it's my lease.

1235
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:06,960
It's Remy.

1236
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:07,960
It's Pierre.

1237
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:12,000
It's people who have come together to create this thing.

1238
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:17,900
And I think that, again, that could be the 5'10 in your home gym.

1239
01:14:17,900 --> 01:14:20,120
That could be the V4 at your home gym.

1240
01:14:20,120 --> 01:14:25,300
And if you kind of put some eyes to that person and those people, what they're trying to do

1241
01:14:25,300 --> 01:14:29,480
and understand a little bit about where they're coming from and their intentionality behind

1242
01:14:29,480 --> 01:14:33,800
it, I think that usually goes quite a long way in understanding and having a little bit

1243
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:39,880
more empathy towards the situation and if nothing else, athletic empathy towards the

1244
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:42,840
event or the climate itself.

1245
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:46,960
So yeah, that's precisely why I wanted to do that.

1246
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:49,960
Ten points to you.

1247
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:50,960
Okay.

1248
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:54,040
Burn men's won that photo.

1249
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:58,700
This was one of the positive comments that I took.

1250
01:14:58,700 --> 01:15:01,920
Best comp of the season on both sides in terms of setting in competition.

1251
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:02,920
Thanks.

1252
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:04,840
Well, thank you.

1253
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:12,080
And then burn women's, again, just like the first photo I'd taken, the only one I had

1254
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:13,080
taken.

1255
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:18,720
This one I just wanted to talk a bit about since people are always asking for this.

1256
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:24,320
I would love to see Yanya take on the men's course, realizing that not every woman would

1257
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:27,320
be able to or want to take on a men's course.

1258
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:29,880
I think she would love to test herself.

1259
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:35,880
She has the drive to push the women's competition further and show just how strong women are.

1260
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:38,040
She's in a class by herself.

1261
01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:40,260
Go Yanya.

1262
01:15:40,260 --> 01:15:45,340
So I think with this one, I just kind of wanted to ask how you think she would fare on a men's

1263
01:15:45,340 --> 01:15:56,680
route because as a viewer, I can't quite pinpoint why, but the boulders do look very different

1264
01:15:56,680 --> 01:16:00,040
and so yeah, I wonder how you think she would perform on them.

1265
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:03,040
I think she would do well, to be completely honest.

1266
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:05,680
I think she would do really well.

1267
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:10,920
Exactly what really well looks like, I don't know.

1268
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:14,000
I think if she had a good day, there's no reason.

1269
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:20,240
I'm trying to think back critically here before I go put my foot in my mouth on a podcast.

1270
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:22,240
And in terms of reach and stuff as well.

1271
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:27,160
Well, she's not shorter than Serato, you know what I mean?

1272
01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:31,120
So that would be a non-issue there.

1273
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:38,960
There are shorter like Nimrod, Marcus is not the tallest climber either, and Mechi is the

1274
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:39,960
tallest.

1275
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:46,800
Yeah, she would fall within the range of average athlete size.

1276
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:47,800
I think she would do well.

1277
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:54,760
I'm not going to put predictions on what she would do when and where, but I think she definitely

1278
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:58,520
I feel like stands a chance, maybe more than stands a chance.

1279
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:01,840
I think she could do well.

1280
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:04,840
But yeah, I don't know what that would look like.

1281
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:06,360
I don't know how that could work.

1282
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:10,080
I don't know if that's ever her desire.

1283
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:17,760
I was hanging out with one of her teammates and countryman, Gregor Vizonic, a couple of

1284
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:19,920
months ago.

1285
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:22,200
And he was kind of saying, I was like, oh yeah, how's she doing?

1286
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:27,080
Because like, I won't say Yanya and I are like friends, but like we chat every now and

1287
01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:31,080
again, see how you're doing, check in, if we're at a comp, hang out, whatever, go get

1288
01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:32,960
a drink, catch up.

1289
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:35,400
But I was asking, I was asking, how's she doing?

1290
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:36,400
How you doing?

1291
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:37,400
How's the team doing?

1292
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:40,480
You know, whatever, like guys getting ready for the upcoming season, you know, whatever,

1293
01:17:40,480 --> 01:17:41,480
just standard.

1294
01:17:41,480 --> 01:17:44,720
And he's like, dude, Yanya is in like unreal form.

1295
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:48,840
Like normally she apparently they have like this spray wall that they'll like do like

1296
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:50,640
trainer boulders on and stuff like that.

1297
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:56,440
And normally she's like, kind of right there, one and one, two with men, the men's field,

1298
01:17:56,440 --> 01:17:58,880
like she'll do the boulder, they'll do the boulder, they'll do the boulder, she'll do

1299
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:00,760
the boulder in no particular order.

1300
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:01,760
It's there.

1301
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:06,100
And he said this year she's just like, like they won't touch the boulders and she does

1302
01:18:06,100 --> 01:18:07,320
the boulders.

1303
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:12,280
And this isn't like random civilians, like this is their team.

1304
01:18:12,280 --> 01:18:13,280
You know what I mean?

1305
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:18,240
So I think that she, yeah, she would smash.

1306
01:18:18,240 --> 01:18:22,040
So I'll see her in two weeks or three weeks.

1307
01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:23,500
So we'll see.

1308
01:18:23,500 --> 01:18:27,520
But yeah, she'd smash.

1309
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:28,520
Really cool here.

1310
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:29,520
Yeah, awesome.

1311
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:30,520
Okay.

1312
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:36,120
And then one thing, one last thing about Innsbruck, I think you had mentioned that you guys had

1313
01:18:36,120 --> 01:18:40,000
reset a whole boulder after it was signed off.

1314
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:42,160
What happened there?

1315
01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:43,160
Great question.

1316
01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:50,040
So basically the way that the competition work week typically flows is that the beginning

1317
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:54,280
of the week is like finals boulders go up and then like midweek is semis and then end

1318
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:55,680
of the week is qualies.

1319
01:18:55,680 --> 01:19:00,880
And the reason for that is like, qualies are then left up on the wall and roll right into

1320
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:07,720
the first day of qualifying for the competition.

1321
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:11,480
And then also like finals happen first because you have the most amount of resources to pull

1322
01:19:11,480 --> 01:19:14,760
from and just kind of all the things.

1323
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:20,720
So the way that we broke it down is the Innsbruck wall is pretty big and it had enough space

1324
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:22,920
to put up all the finals boulders at once.

1325
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:26,600
And so what we did was we kind of went like, all right, men's bay, women's bay, men's bay,

1326
01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:28,480
women's bay, men's bay, women's bay, all the way down.

1327
01:19:28,480 --> 01:19:31,420
So we didn't pick like this is men's one or this is women's three.

1328
01:19:31,420 --> 01:19:33,240
We just kind of said like, okay, this is the women's team.

1329
01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:34,240
This is the men's team.

1330
01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:35,240
Here's your bays.

1331
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:36,240
We'll talk about style.

1332
01:19:36,240 --> 01:19:39,040
We'll talk about hold selection, the hold selection and style or the hold selections

1333
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:40,040
in general.

1334
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:41,040
That was a whole other conversation.

1335
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:47,720
We had to be like very particular about which holds went on the wall during certain rounds

1336
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:52,760
per the event organizer sponsorship agreements.

1337
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:57,920
So that was a limiting factor on a number of occasions.

1338
01:19:57,920 --> 01:20:00,480
So it got to the point where we set this boulder and it was actually a boulder that I kind

1339
01:20:00,480 --> 01:20:03,480
of was pioneering.

1340
01:20:03,480 --> 01:20:08,220
And the concept for me was that like, if you were facing the Innsbruck wall, whatever,

1341
01:20:08,220 --> 01:20:10,500
you saw the Innsbruck wall, you're climbing, you're a rock climber.

1342
01:20:10,500 --> 01:20:18,680
But if you turned around, the audience and the wall and the mountains were just like

1343
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:19,680
bananas.

1344
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:22,400
It was so beautiful.

1345
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:28,680
And like, I was like, I think we need to set some sort of like face out experience here,

1346
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:31,160
both for the athletes and for the spectators.

1347
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:35,040
Like the athletes get to look at the spectators and the wall and the, you know, like take

1348
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:41,520
this in and then the spectators get to see the emotion of the climber as they're trying

1349
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:44,200
really hard in a World Cup final.

1350
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:46,640
So that was the concept.

1351
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:52,840
Long story short, the concept got on the wall and I won't say it failed, but it definitely

1352
01:20:52,840 --> 01:21:00,520
did not meet my personal standard of what I would have liked to have seen be on the

1353
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:03,080
wall for any round really.

1354
01:21:03,080 --> 01:21:05,240
It just, there were too many question marks remaining.

1355
01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:08,320
There were a number of like possibilities for cheating.

1356
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:11,800
This was for a men's boulder, which ended up being men's one.

1357
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:18,520
So if anyone remembers that boulder and I'll talk more about that, but it just like the

1358
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:23,440
Bay, the zone was wrong and the holds that kind of were like picked out.

1359
01:21:23,440 --> 01:21:26,600
I just, I just didn't do a great job to be completely frank.

1360
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:27,600
And we worked on it.

1361
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:28,720
We spent a lot of time as a team.

1362
01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:32,880
The team invested a lot into this boulder and it just like didn't do it, you know?

1363
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:36,640
So we ticked it, we picked it, the online observation came and the whole time I'm like,

1364
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:40,520
damn it, like not your best Cody, you know?

1365
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:46,440
And it kind of sat with me for a little bit and was, it wasn't like weighing on my week.

1366
01:21:46,440 --> 01:21:48,080
Like I was like, okay, it's done.

1367
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:51,000
Now it's, now it's semi's day or now it's whatever day.

1368
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:54,800
But after a little while I looked at the team and we had a really, really good team.

1369
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:59,480
We always have a good team, but this, this team was like really jelling and like getting

1370
01:21:59,480 --> 01:22:01,260
stuff done.

1371
01:22:01,260 --> 01:22:02,260
We weren't limited by time.

1372
01:22:02,260 --> 01:22:04,680
We had no time constraints or anything like that.

1373
01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:09,760
So I went up to the chief, you know, at dinner one night or maybe it was at launch, something

1374
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:10,760
like that.

1375
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:14,400
I was like, Hey, what do you think about like, if we reset this?

1376
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:18,480
And he's like, no, no, no, no, no.

1377
01:22:18,480 --> 01:22:20,160
And I was like, just think about it.

1378
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:22,820
Like, you know, we have opportunity here.

1379
01:22:22,820 --> 01:22:24,720
We have an opportunity here to like make something really special.

1380
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:25,800
And I don't know if we did it.

1381
01:22:25,800 --> 01:22:28,480
Like remember we have this potential beta break.

1382
01:22:28,480 --> 01:22:29,800
We have this potential beta break.

1383
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:30,800
Like it's too easy here.

1384
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:31,800
It's too hard here.

1385
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:32,800
Like, okay, right.

1386
01:22:32,800 --> 01:22:33,800
Like, let's think about it.

1387
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:37,760
And I was like, look, just think about it and I'll take it on if need be, if we have

1388
01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:41,720
time or whatever, like, and he's like, yeah, but then you have to deal with online observation.

1389
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:45,680
I was like, look, if we have the time and space, just like, just tell me Cody, you have

1390
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:50,040
two hours or you have three hours and like, whatever it is and I'll make it, I'll make

1391
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:51,040
it happen.

1392
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:53,680
And if it doesn't happen, then we already know we have a boulder that's like in our

1393
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:54,680
pocket.

1394
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:55,680
You know what I mean?

1395
01:22:55,680 --> 01:22:58,520
Like this boulder, the show will still go on.

1396
01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:06,040
So I ended up getting the opportunity, reset this boulder, then brought the team over.

1397
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:10,480
I was at that point able to move the boulder over a bay, over a lane.

1398
01:23:10,480 --> 01:23:16,840
So it was a much more compelling lane for the movement that we were chasing, which was

1399
01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:19,320
that pressing and all that.

1400
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:22,840
And it like, it was like butter.

1401
01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:27,400
It just went, it just flowed because it was like the right area with the right tools for

1402
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:28,800
the job.

1403
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:32,400
And it was kind of a testament to like sometimes, you know, trying to put a square peg in a

1404
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:36,680
round hole, just like, ain't it, you know, you just like, you can, you can have all the

1405
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:42,080
time in the world and the best, the best workers working on the thing, but if it's just not

1406
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:44,640
fitting, maybe it's just not fitting.

1407
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:49,800
So we got lucky and maybe we set up ourselves with luck by being able to work.

1408
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:51,480
We worked pretty hard prior.

1409
01:23:51,480 --> 01:23:52,480
The team came together.

1410
01:23:52,480 --> 01:23:57,840
We had a really nice session on this, on this climb, got it to where it wanted to be.

1411
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:02,320
And honestly, I was like super, super happy with it by the end of like when the competition

1412
01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:07,840
was going on, it met exactly our quota for what we wanted to see in terms of performance

1413
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:08,840
on the athletes.

1414
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:11,480
And it was like a super exciting start to the show.

1415
01:24:11,480 --> 01:24:12,480
And that's what we wanted.

1416
01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:14,240
We wanted to like get the show off with a bang.

1417
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:18,560
It's the last World Cup men's finals of the season, get the crowd in it, get the athletes

1418
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:25,960
in it, be like a fun, uh, pressy, funky thing, huge jump, lots of tops.

1419
01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:28,840
Um, and yeah, so it was cool.

1420
01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:29,840
It was really, really cool.

1421
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:33,760
I was like very, very happy to have that experience.

1422
01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:36,480
And did you still manage to have that face out moment?

1423
01:24:36,480 --> 01:24:41,920
Yeah, actually it was like way more pure in this way because the panel that was initially

1424
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:48,360
allocated was maybe it was only like 20 degrees or 25 degrees overhanging.

1425
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:51,800
And so we were having to like build out with a lot of volumes and larger holds.

1426
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:54,920
But the problem is, is that the wall was completely flat.

1427
01:24:54,920 --> 01:25:00,940
And so we had to use vol- like these volumes, but kind of like I was mentioning earlier,

1428
01:25:00,940 --> 01:25:07,320
we were fixed as to which brands we were allowed to use in certain rounds based on like sponsorship

1429
01:25:07,320 --> 01:25:08,320
agreements.

1430
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:16,480
And so due to the selection of other boulders that happened prior to this boulder, I was

1431
01:25:16,480 --> 01:25:22,720
left kind of with a certain pool of holds and certain brands to pick from.

1432
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:27,200
And it just didn't quite fit the needs of that profile.

1433
01:25:27,200 --> 01:25:32,320
But then when we switched profiles, it turned into this more much steeper cave with like

1434
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:37,400
a kind of dihedral-ish situation.

1435
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:42,040
Then those holds actually worked perfectly for what we were trying to create because

1436
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:43,200
they were lower profile.

1437
01:25:43,200 --> 01:25:48,760
They did have a lot of surface area, but it wasn't the right tool for the job in the previous

1438
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:49,760
version.

1439
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:52,920
It was exactly the right tool for the job when we move things around.

1440
01:25:52,920 --> 01:25:53,920
So yeah.

1441
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:54,920
Wow.

1442
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:55,920
Yeah.

1443
01:25:55,920 --> 01:26:01,360
I feel like it's really cool hearing the concept behind the boulders.

1444
01:26:01,360 --> 01:26:06,880
It makes me feel like I should go back and rewatch them now knowing this and then seeing

1445
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:12,880
how it, I guess, translates over the video screen and like seeing how the climbers climb

1446
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:13,880
so.

1447
01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:14,880
Yeah.

1448
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:16,920
It's really interesting to hear behind the scenes.

1449
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:20,800
Please excuse this brief intermission, but I would just like to remind you that if you

1450
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:25,560
are enjoying this podcast, please follow and rate it on your preferred listening platform.

1451
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:29,240
If you're watching on YouTube, I would love to hear your discussion and thoughts in the

1452
01:26:29,240 --> 01:26:30,920
comments below.

1453
01:26:30,920 --> 01:26:35,680
Anything helps to push this podcast out to more people and get even more amazing guests

1454
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:36,680
on.

1455
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:38,120
Back to the show.

1456
01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:41,360
One last question about IFSC related setting.

1457
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:46,400
I think this was also one of the discord questions that someone had asked.

1458
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:52,560
Where do you see IFSC setting top level comp setting evolving to?

1459
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:57,440
I think what will happen.

1460
01:26:57,440 --> 01:27:03,880
I think the most likely course of action, again, broad strokes on the whole, is that

1461
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:12,280
the setting will be more dictated by the parameters of the given event.

1462
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:18,800
For example, when we have Olympic qualifying events this year or we have, let's say, the

1463
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:24,560
Olympics themselves, there's multi-zone scoring.

1464
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:32,360
We saw this at a few different comps so far, like if it was continental events.

1465
01:27:32,360 --> 01:27:33,360
We've seen this.

1466
01:27:33,360 --> 01:27:37,800
You're going to have a low zone effectively, a zone, and a top.

1467
01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:40,880
I don't remember exactly, but you get a minimum amount of points for the first zone.

1468
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:44,560
I think it was like 5, 10, 25, maybe, if that's what it is.

1469
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:45,560
I'd be lying to you.

1470
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:48,160
I don't remember off the top of my head.

1471
01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:55,120
What you end up seeing is you need moments in between the zones.

1472
01:27:55,120 --> 01:27:57,980
At least a lot of times that's what it's interpreted as.

1473
01:27:57,980 --> 01:27:59,880
Why do you get a zone?

1474
01:27:59,880 --> 01:28:00,880
Why?

1475
01:28:00,880 --> 01:28:04,440
Because you've done something to demarcate success.

1476
01:28:04,440 --> 01:28:08,640
Someone is thinking that that is successful.

1477
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:15,400
I think, at least for this season, you might notice maybe a little more choppiness, especially

1478
01:28:15,400 --> 01:28:19,040
when we're trying to represent all the styles still.

1479
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:26,560
You might be able to represent a few more styles or at least a little bit of extra in-between

1480
01:28:26,560 --> 01:28:29,200
because now we kind of have this extra zone to play with.

1481
01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:35,120
Numerically, it does create some problems where the difference between start and low

1482
01:28:35,120 --> 01:28:36,120
zone is 5 points.

1483
01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:37,440
Okay, so it's 5 points.

1484
01:28:37,440 --> 01:28:39,600
The next is, again, 5 more points.

1485
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:41,600
It's 5 to 10.

1486
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:47,000
But then that zone to top is a 15-point differential.

1487
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:54,080
Now you're at 25, so you have to showcase some sort of exceptional moment, I would say,

1488
01:28:54,080 --> 01:28:59,840
to demarcate the difference in athlete performance from zone to top.

1489
01:28:59,840 --> 01:29:08,080
So I think you might end up seeing maybe more similar styles to what we saw in burn, both

1490
01:29:08,080 --> 01:29:13,400
in the world championship and the combined.

1491
01:29:13,400 --> 01:29:19,880
Just more action up high and more success down low, which I think does actually answer

1492
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:25,800
some of the folks' questions or feedback from what we read on the YouTube videos.

1493
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:28,640
It's not that fun to watch people just try and fail off the ground.

1494
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:30,240
And that's true.

1495
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:34,220
So you're going to see more of building moments, I think, as people learn moves.

1496
01:29:34,220 --> 01:29:36,240
But I think you'll also see more learned moves.

1497
01:29:36,240 --> 01:29:41,520
So I don't think we're going to get away from more coordination style.

1498
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:48,400
I think we might see more lower body coordination, more things having to do with hips and core

1499
01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:57,440
and legs and feet, because they require just a different ask of the athlete.

1500
01:29:57,440 --> 01:30:04,240
A lot of times if we have coordination up high, hand cordo, it's limited or determined,

1501
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:06,840
success or failure is a lot of times, it's determined by a lot of things.

1502
01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:12,840
But if I can pull more or hold longer, I'm more likely to succeed.

1503
01:30:12,840 --> 01:30:17,400
A lot of times, again, I'm like broad strokes, but if it's more lower body and core and

1504
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:22,960
feet and stuff, then there's more learning involved and maybe more leg power involved

1505
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:23,960
and more.

1506
01:30:23,960 --> 01:30:24,960
You know what I mean?

1507
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:26,840
So you might see more of that.

1508
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:31,660
But I would say you might see more of the stuff like we saw in that high flying fun

1509
01:30:31,660 --> 01:30:32,660
boulder in Hachioji.

1510
01:30:32,660 --> 01:30:39,780
If it's a coordination boulder, you're going to need to showcase coordination in some numerical

1511
01:30:39,780 --> 01:30:41,480
differential from zone to top.

1512
01:30:41,480 --> 01:30:44,120
So what's that going to look like?

1513
01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:46,800
I can guess as well as you, but that'd be my guess.

1514
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:51,640
It'd suck if that like, to use our example earlier, where if Ginny's like the cordo

1515
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:59,280
master and I'm just a power climber, I'm just going to pull on holds, that the thing

1516
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:03,240
that's going to, like the boulder that's for your comp for cordo and you're like, you turn

1517
01:31:03,240 --> 01:31:05,720
around like, yes, it's cordobolder.

1518
01:31:05,720 --> 01:31:09,960
You only get to do that from zero to five or from five to 10, right?

1519
01:31:09,960 --> 01:31:14,480
But it's an easy enough version that I'm also able to play and fight on it.

1520
01:31:14,480 --> 01:31:19,360
So then I also can get those points and showcase my skills, even though my skills are much

1521
01:31:19,360 --> 01:31:22,400
less than you in this represented style.

1522
01:31:22,400 --> 01:31:27,360
But then the top of the cordobolder is just like grabbing on a four mil edge and just

1523
01:31:27,360 --> 01:31:30,440
yarding to another four mil edge, right?

1524
01:31:30,440 --> 01:31:31,440
But that's the cordobolder.

1525
01:31:31,440 --> 01:31:32,440
Do you know what I mean?

1526
01:31:32,440 --> 01:31:36,440
Like then it's like, well, we don't, we didn't represent the coordination style climber.

1527
01:31:36,440 --> 01:31:41,780
We represented the power climber, really, at the end of it.

1528
01:31:41,780 --> 01:31:47,480
So I guess in summary, there will probably be lots of changes and it will be dictated

1529
01:31:47,480 --> 01:31:51,960
by the field, the rules, the field of play will be dictated, I think a lot by the rules

1530
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:53,360
and the scoring.

1531
01:31:53,360 --> 01:31:59,000
And we're, if nothing else, I know no matter who's on the teams, they're going to be, you

1532
01:31:59,000 --> 01:32:01,840
know, firing on all cylinders to create the best comp.

1533
01:32:01,840 --> 01:32:05,440
So if nothing else, know that.

1534
01:32:05,440 --> 01:32:09,240
And what does like lower body coordination look like to you?

1535
01:32:09,240 --> 01:32:11,360
Do you have like an example of that?

1536
01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:18,320
So it's not, this isn't the most pure version, but if we looked back on women's one Prague

1537
01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:21,520
finals, it was a green and black boulder.

1538
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:26,360
It was like green rock city fiberglass with black volumes.

1539
01:32:26,360 --> 01:32:31,280
And it was this Lachey or Lombada or swing set or whatever you want to call it.

1540
01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:35,620
You like jump to these two holds and you like did this swing, then you time it right.

1541
01:32:35,620 --> 01:32:40,400
And then as you're swinging, you match this hold and generate off this, you hate him or

1542
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:41,400
you love him.

1543
01:32:41,400 --> 01:32:42,400
Oh, I love them.

1544
01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:43,400
Oh, you love them.

1545
01:32:43,400 --> 01:32:44,400
Okay.

1546
01:32:44,400 --> 01:32:47,320
And then, but like, so you need upper body, like, okay.

1547
01:32:47,320 --> 01:32:49,880
So someone who's listening is like, well, Cody, that's all upper body, there's no

1548
01:32:49,880 --> 01:32:51,480
upper body left or no lower body.

1549
01:32:51,480 --> 01:32:53,240
That just like to get the generation started.

1550
01:32:53,240 --> 01:32:55,920
That's like, that's integral to the move.

1551
01:32:55,920 --> 01:32:56,920
Yes.

1552
01:32:56,920 --> 01:32:58,720
But it's not like there's so much more to come.

1553
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:03,240
So then you like do this thing and then you have to time your hips with the trajectory

1554
01:33:03,240 --> 01:33:05,160
of your body into the wall.

1555
01:33:05,160 --> 01:33:06,160
Right.

1556
01:33:06,160 --> 01:33:07,920
And where do you release that point?

1557
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:08,920
Right.

1558
01:33:08,920 --> 01:33:12,240
So that's on how you're releasing this hold, how you timed this.

1559
01:33:12,240 --> 01:33:13,240
Right.

1560
01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:15,080
And then where do you land on this volume?

1561
01:33:15,080 --> 01:33:16,560
Do you, do you cheat inside?

1562
01:33:16,560 --> 01:33:17,560
Do you cheat outside?

1563
01:33:17,560 --> 01:33:19,560
Do you cheat forward or back?

1564
01:33:19,560 --> 01:33:21,480
Where's your ankle landing?

1565
01:33:21,480 --> 01:33:23,120
How flat's your foot?

1566
01:33:23,120 --> 01:33:24,640
And then we're not even there yet.

1567
01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:25,640
Right.

1568
01:33:25,640 --> 01:33:26,640
That's just like the interaction point.

1569
01:33:26,640 --> 01:33:30,120
That's like, then you still have the whole reception of what happens after.

1570
01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:31,120
What are you doing with your hand?

1571
01:33:31,120 --> 01:33:32,120
Right.

1572
01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:33,520
What are you doing with your, with your foot?

1573
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:34,560
Are you stutter stepping?

1574
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:35,560
Are you toe catching?

1575
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:36,560
Right.

1576
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:42,440
So you're putting in these levels of complexity that are asking questions in time and space

1577
01:33:42,440 --> 01:33:47,000
to the climber that they have to, they can only get the opportunity to learn or answer

1578
01:33:47,000 --> 01:33:48,760
as it's occurring.

1579
01:33:48,760 --> 01:33:53,700
You can't like just be like, I'll pull harder and I'll do the move.

1580
01:33:53,700 --> 01:33:57,240
You have to be like, I need to be better to do the move.

1581
01:33:57,240 --> 01:33:58,560
And so what is being better?

1582
01:33:58,560 --> 01:33:59,560
Okay.

1583
01:33:59,560 --> 01:34:05,040
Let me critically evaluate what I just did here and I failed because, and then work backwards,

1584
01:34:05,040 --> 01:34:06,040
right.

1585
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:10,280
And then maybe to move forwards, then I must fill in the blank.

1586
01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:18,160
So maybe it may be full body rather than just lower body, but those two things I think we'll

1587
01:34:18,160 --> 01:34:19,800
see, you'll probably see some more of.

1588
01:34:19,800 --> 01:34:20,800
Yeah.

1589
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:25,240
I mean, we've definitely already started seeing a ton of those and I love like the shame moves

1590
01:34:25,240 --> 01:34:26,240
as well.

1591
01:34:26,240 --> 01:34:28,240
I'm still personally trying to figure them out.

1592
01:34:28,240 --> 01:34:30,720
I just can't get it working.

1593
01:34:30,720 --> 01:34:33,960
I don't know why, but there's a lot of steps to it.

1594
01:34:33,960 --> 01:34:34,960
So maybe that's why.

1595
01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:40,440
It's a lot of learning, but then I'll say that like, once you figure out functionally

1596
01:34:40,440 --> 01:34:45,520
why it works for you, even like if you just figure out the 101 or 102 version or wherever

1597
01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:49,240
you're at in your experience, it doesn't matter which you figure out kind of the meat and

1598
01:34:49,240 --> 01:34:51,400
potatoes and what makes that work.

1599
01:34:51,400 --> 01:34:54,920
And you then have the building blocks for all the moves afterwards.

1600
01:34:54,920 --> 01:34:58,440
And that's why they're, I think a lot, they're really popular right now is that like, you

1601
01:34:58,440 --> 01:35:00,420
can just like get better at them.

1602
01:35:00,420 --> 01:35:02,400
You can learn how to get better at them.

1603
01:35:02,400 --> 01:35:07,720
You don't have to go to the hangboard or like the tension board or the moon board and like,

1604
01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:08,720
that's still valued.

1605
01:35:08,720 --> 01:35:09,720
Like you still should do that.

1606
01:35:09,720 --> 01:35:14,020
Like to become a well-rounded climber, you need to have that like grit, right?

1607
01:35:14,020 --> 01:35:17,940
But then there's also this fun aspect of like, oh, I'm learning something new about my body

1608
01:35:17,940 --> 01:35:21,560
and myself and my, how I'm interacting on the wall.

1609
01:35:21,560 --> 01:35:27,720
That's like very, very appealing to, I think an increasingly large percentage of the population.

1610
01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:34,000
And it just so happens to also be awesome for competition separation on really low intensity

1611
01:35:34,000 --> 01:35:37,720
level moves, which is also quite nice.

1612
01:35:37,720 --> 01:35:38,720
Yeah.

1613
01:35:38,720 --> 01:35:42,720
There's something very satisfying about that point where you're working on it and then

1614
01:35:42,720 --> 01:35:47,480
you kind of unlock it for yourself or you finally understand how your body moves in

1615
01:35:47,480 --> 01:35:48,480
that way.

1616
01:35:48,480 --> 01:35:52,040
And then it gets like, all of those get a bit easier.

1617
01:35:52,040 --> 01:35:57,040
And then you just add on the other layers of like little tweaks that make it a bit more,

1618
01:35:57,040 --> 01:35:58,320
a bit more weird.

1619
01:35:58,320 --> 01:35:59,320
Yeah.

1620
01:35:59,320 --> 01:36:01,240
Climbers like checking boxes, right?

1621
01:36:01,240 --> 01:36:07,080
And like, if you can figure out, okay, I know how to start this style of move now and then,

1622
01:36:07,080 --> 01:36:11,160
okay, now I know how to add in a different style of this other move.

1623
01:36:11,160 --> 01:36:16,680
And then you can start almost like Lego blocking them together to create these chains of things.

1624
01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:21,120
You know, you can start checking these boxes and okay, I've unlocked that skill now and

1625
01:36:21,120 --> 01:36:24,920
now I can approach another skill that I can add into this, right?

1626
01:36:24,920 --> 01:36:29,560
Now I can check another box of my skills and just keep developing all at the same time.

1627
01:36:29,560 --> 01:36:31,760
You're still becoming a better, stronger climber.

1628
01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:35,040
You know, your fingers are getting stronger, your biceps are getting stronger, your back

1629
01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:36,040
is getting stronger, legs.

1630
01:36:36,040 --> 01:36:39,000
They can be excited to unlock that one.

1631
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:40,000
Heck yeah.

1632
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:45,400
Well, you can come visit or open it up a climbing gym up here just south of Boston.

1633
01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:47,760
So we're going to have all kinds of styles of climbing.

1634
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:48,760
Don't get me wrong.

1635
01:36:48,760 --> 01:36:56,440
We'll have a lot of resources available to us to create those special style moves as

1636
01:36:56,440 --> 01:36:57,440
well.

1637
01:36:57,440 --> 01:36:58,440
Oh yeah.

1638
01:36:58,440 --> 01:36:59,440
I'll visit for sure.

1639
01:36:59,440 --> 01:37:00,440
I'll let you know.

1640
01:37:00,440 --> 01:37:02,480
And yeah, we'll talk about that as well.

1641
01:37:02,480 --> 01:37:08,720
But yeah, let's get back into like the general route setting kind of stuff.

1642
01:37:08,720 --> 01:37:14,280
So how hard do you climb versus the climbers that you're setting for?

1643
01:37:14,280 --> 01:37:22,760
And do you ever kind of feel intimidated setting for these like elite worldwide level climbers?

1644
01:37:22,760 --> 01:37:25,920
Those are two really, really good questions.

1645
01:37:25,920 --> 01:37:32,320
And maybe I'll flip them in answering them.

1646
01:37:32,320 --> 01:37:34,440
Sure.

1647
01:37:34,440 --> 01:37:40,960
I'll say that like, I think now that I've had a number of opportunities to work alongside

1648
01:37:40,960 --> 01:37:49,600
these athletes, both in competition setting or workshop setting or whatever it is, you

1649
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:52,080
realize, I know it's like the funny thing.

1650
01:37:52,080 --> 01:37:53,160
It's like they're just people too.

1651
01:37:53,160 --> 01:37:54,160
And it's like they are.

1652
01:37:54,160 --> 01:37:55,160
You know what I mean?

1653
01:37:55,160 --> 01:37:59,840
They just like happen to, for whatever reason, to fall into this life.

1654
01:37:59,840 --> 01:38:04,860
And they're really, really good climbers and they're exceptional people and their methodologies

1655
01:38:04,860 --> 01:38:06,640
and their trainings and all that stuff.

1656
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:10,120
And I remember the first, like I remember when I went to Poland that first time to set

1657
01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:18,600
for this international event, I was like worried, you know, I was like, am I good enough?

1658
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:20,760
Is this imposter syndrome situation happening?

1659
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:22,360
Am I supposed to be here?

1660
01:38:22,360 --> 01:38:24,560
Is like, and this is for a kids comp, you know what I mean?

1661
01:38:24,560 --> 01:38:28,560
These are just like, I mean, granted it was 26 nations, you know, 26 countries are all

1662
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:33,600
coming to Poland to climb on shit that I'm being a part of help create.

1663
01:38:33,600 --> 01:38:39,320
So you feel the pressure, the coaches, the parents, the athletes.

1664
01:38:39,320 --> 01:38:42,360
But then you check that box and you're like, okay, like I did it.

1665
01:38:42,360 --> 01:38:45,640
Like, okay, like maybe I am supposed to be here.

1666
01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:46,640
Things could have been better.

1667
01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:49,200
I can, I can self analyze and self assess and be like, I could have done this better

1668
01:38:49,200 --> 01:38:51,880
and I should have done that better, but also give yourself some grace.

1669
01:38:51,880 --> 01:38:52,880
Like you did this.

1670
01:38:52,880 --> 01:38:53,880
Okay.

1671
01:38:53,880 --> 01:38:54,880
You did this.

1672
01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:55,880
Okay.

1673
01:38:55,880 --> 01:39:00,680
And then I think that just like develops, you know, so then, you know, I, um, for ran

1674
01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:08,280
for my first world cup and there was a lot of nervousness in a way because a root setter

1675
01:39:08,280 --> 01:39:11,800
has had this conversation a lot and I don't care if you've, this is your first QE that

1676
01:39:11,800 --> 01:39:17,400
you're ever setting or literally world championships.

1677
01:39:17,400 --> 01:39:20,400
You're you were always worried year over year of year.

1678
01:39:20,400 --> 01:39:21,720
Like is this it?

1679
01:39:21,720 --> 01:39:23,480
Is this my last chance?

1680
01:39:23,480 --> 01:39:28,360
Like I have to show my best because if I don't, what happens if I just don't get selected

1681
01:39:28,360 --> 01:39:29,360
again?

1682
01:39:29,360 --> 01:39:33,440
Is it, is it because of something that I could do right now or, or don't do right now?

1683
01:39:33,440 --> 01:39:38,280
So I'm feeling quite a bit of pressure for that, but I tried to just like, okay, no,

1684
01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:39,280
I'm good.

1685
01:39:39,280 --> 01:39:40,280
I've been training.

1686
01:39:40,280 --> 01:39:41,280
I feel in good shape.

1687
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:47,520
I, I'm going to do my best to, I'm going to try my best to be the best person of what

1688
01:39:47,520 --> 01:39:49,880
they want to see, right?

1689
01:39:49,880 --> 01:39:51,640
What are they, what do they need from me?

1690
01:39:51,640 --> 01:39:53,440
I'm going to offer that to them.

1691
01:39:53,440 --> 01:39:57,480
I'm not going to do more, um, unless they would like to see it because I don't want

1692
01:39:57,480 --> 01:40:00,880
to be overbearing or anything like that.

1693
01:40:00,880 --> 01:40:05,640
Um, and just be the best asset to the team and to create the best competition that I

1694
01:40:05,640 --> 01:40:06,640
can.

1695
01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:07,640
That's what I always, I always go back to.

1696
01:40:07,640 --> 01:40:08,640
So it's about the competition.

1697
01:40:08,640 --> 01:40:11,920
Um, so I want to be a part of it.

1698
01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:16,480
And that's the part that could feel intimidating sometimes, but less so the athletes.

1699
01:40:16,480 --> 01:40:20,400
Like it's almost, it's like the environment beforehand and it's like the athletes, they're,

1700
01:40:20,400 --> 01:40:21,600
they're coming whether we like it or not.

1701
01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:22,600
You know what I mean?

1702
01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:26,720
Like Saturday morning comes or Friday morning comes, whatever the comp is, like those athletes

1703
01:40:26,720 --> 01:40:27,720
are coming.

1704
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:32,560
Like, you know, you can sometimes like, you know, you'd be like, oh shit, like that's

1705
01:40:32,560 --> 01:40:33,560
Adam Andra.

1706
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:39,160
Like he is, he's climbed some stuff, you know, or like, oh, there's a, you know, Brooke

1707
01:40:39,160 --> 01:40:40,160
Rabbit too.

1708
01:40:40,160 --> 01:40:42,480
And I've been, I've been setting for her for a very, very long time, all the way like through

1709
01:40:42,480 --> 01:40:43,480
her youth circuit.

1710
01:40:43,480 --> 01:40:47,320
But then you see her now and you're like, you know, wow, or Natalia, that's, that's

1711
01:40:47,320 --> 01:40:48,780
our Olympian, you know?

1712
01:40:48,780 --> 01:40:51,600
So sometimes, you know, you kind of step back and you're like, oh wow, that can be a little

1713
01:40:51,600 --> 01:40:55,760
bit, uh, you know, if nothing else, you're like, this is important.

1714
01:40:55,760 --> 01:40:57,840
I need to take my job seriously here.

1715
01:40:57,840 --> 01:41:00,400
Like, I think that's, that's that.

1716
01:41:00,400 --> 01:41:07,720
But as far as climbing level, uh, Ginny, that's like a trillion, trillion dollar question.

1717
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:12,400
And like, like outdoor grades and indoor grades and whether you climb in the South versus

1718
01:41:12,400 --> 01:41:18,120
the North versus West Coast versus Columbia versus, you know, Iran, like sure there's

1719
01:41:18,120 --> 01:41:20,480
like relative levels.

1720
01:41:20,480 --> 01:41:28,600
Um, there's stylistic preferences based on area development for sure.

1721
01:41:28,600 --> 01:41:33,280
Like if there's any truism in climbing, I would say that's one of them.

1722
01:41:33,280 --> 01:41:38,800
Um, but as far as competition, route setting and climbing, the one thing that I'll, I

1723
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:43,500
won't, I can't really answer your question so, so well, because we don't even use V grades

1724
01:41:43,500 --> 01:41:45,600
in comp setting at all.

1725
01:41:45,600 --> 01:41:46,600
We don't, we talk about levels.

1726
01:41:46,600 --> 01:41:53,600
We talk about athlete success or failure given, uh, certain, uh, parameters.

1727
01:41:53,600 --> 01:41:54,840
But one thing I'll never forget.

1728
01:41:54,840 --> 01:41:57,400
So I was working with Josh a lot, uh, Josh Larson.

1729
01:41:57,400 --> 01:42:01,440
He's like, like I was mentioning, like our national team coach, Olympic team coach, and

1730
01:42:01,440 --> 01:42:04,840
he's been a friend of mine for like years just due to the nature that we like kind of

1731
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:07,560
lived close and we ended up sitting at the same gym and he was the head setter and like

1732
01:42:07,560 --> 01:42:08,560
whatever.

1733
01:42:08,560 --> 01:42:13,200
Um, and I remember like years and years and years and years ago, he was, he's such a good

1734
01:42:13,200 --> 01:42:14,200
climber.

1735
01:42:14,200 --> 01:42:17,920
He's an outdoor climber, indoor climber, just like he's fucking amazing.

1736
01:42:17,920 --> 01:42:19,240
There's no other, no other way to go around.

1737
01:42:19,240 --> 01:42:20,240
He's only gotten better over the years.

1738
01:42:20,240 --> 01:42:21,520
I don't understand it.

1739
01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:24,440
Uh, it's just, it's impressive.

1740
01:42:24,440 --> 01:42:30,820
And I remember we went, we went up to Montreal for a comp one time, me, him, his brother

1741
01:42:30,820 --> 01:42:36,280
and this woman, Isabel Faus, who's like the most low key crusher in American rock climbing.

1742
01:42:36,280 --> 01:42:37,840
If you don't know who she is, look her up.

1743
01:42:37,840 --> 01:42:40,480
She's like bananas.

1744
01:42:40,480 --> 01:42:42,680
Like she's climbed more V 14, V 15.

1745
01:42:42,680 --> 01:42:44,160
I think she's gone V 15.

1746
01:42:44,160 --> 01:42:47,040
I was like, she's so good.

1747
01:42:47,040 --> 01:42:51,600
We went up and like, I wanted to make finals and I didn't make finals and I was bummed

1748
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:54,580
out and Josh made finals and I was like, dude, how do you do it?

1749
01:42:54,580 --> 01:42:59,720
Like how do you balance, you know, like commercial route setting, competition route setting and

1750
01:42:59,720 --> 01:43:00,720
outdoor climbing?

1751
01:43:00,720 --> 01:43:03,360
Cause he also climbed outdoors way stronger than me.

1752
01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:07,480
And I was like, I want to reach whatever this level or this level.

1753
01:43:07,480 --> 01:43:12,040
And I was like struggling and he's like, dude, like at some point you got to pick one, you

1754
01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:13,040
know?

1755
01:43:13,040 --> 01:43:14,520
And no matter what you're going to get better.

1756
01:43:14,520 --> 01:43:19,520
And if you get better at one, the other one will trail and you will also, it will elevate,

1757
01:43:19,520 --> 01:43:20,520
but like you got to pick one.

1758
01:43:20,520 --> 01:43:22,320
And I was like, I don't want to pick one.

1759
01:43:22,320 --> 01:43:25,520
And he's like, he's like the best athletes do, you know what I mean?

1760
01:43:25,520 --> 01:43:31,680
Like a lot of times like you look at traditional sports, the best pitchers aren't batting

1761
01:43:31,680 --> 01:43:34,520
cleanup and hitting grand slams, right?

1762
01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:40,060
You look at, you know, hockey, the best scorers aren't always the best defenseman.

1763
01:43:40,060 --> 01:43:46,800
You know, there's like, maybe these aren't the best examples of comparison, but like

1764
01:43:46,800 --> 01:43:50,720
sometimes you have to like pick a lane and try to focus on it and get really, really

1765
01:43:50,720 --> 01:43:54,180
more experience or experience as you can.

1766
01:43:54,180 --> 01:43:58,920
And so for me, I, for what this is worth, this is a super fucking long winded way to

1767
01:43:58,920 --> 01:44:04,440
say that like I've noticed personally that as I reduced my amount of day to day commercial

1768
01:44:04,440 --> 01:44:12,360
route setting and involvement in traditional climbing gyms and upped my competition environment,

1769
01:44:12,360 --> 01:44:17,720
I won't even just say like comps, but like if I, if I teach 12 to 15 clinics a year about

1770
01:44:17,720 --> 01:44:20,060
competition route setting, I'm in a competition environment.

1771
01:44:20,060 --> 01:44:24,280
If I'm going on phone calls with people about like, how do we up our youth team engagement?

1772
01:44:24,280 --> 01:44:25,960
I'm in a competition environment.

1773
01:44:25,960 --> 01:44:29,800
If I go to a world cup, okay, I'm in a competition environment.

1774
01:44:29,800 --> 01:44:34,320
All of a sudden now my brain is like almost rewiring to only think about like comp style

1775
01:44:34,320 --> 01:44:39,760
and so my competition style due to all these reasons is just like elevating.

1776
01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:46,560
So in some, in some instances I can perform quite well on competition style boulders regardless

1777
01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:47,560
of the level.

1778
01:44:47,560 --> 01:44:51,640
And in other instances, like it's not even, it's not even funny.

1779
01:44:51,640 --> 01:44:55,560
Like I'll just get like, I can't touch them, you know?

1780
01:44:55,560 --> 01:45:02,480
And I think it's just a matter of like knowing where you best fit as a member of a team.

1781
01:45:02,480 --> 01:45:08,360
And sometimes, I mean, I think if nothing else, you just like keep pushing and keep

1782
01:45:08,360 --> 01:45:12,240
trying to get better, but it's really hard for me to tell you like where do I stand to

1783
01:45:12,240 --> 01:45:18,840
like a whatever, like a Zach Galla or I don't know, like Zach Galla is a way, way, way,

1784
01:45:18,840 --> 01:45:21,160
way, way, way infinitely better climber than I am.

1785
01:45:21,160 --> 01:45:22,160
You know what I mean?

1786
01:45:22,160 --> 01:45:26,860
Like there's no competition there, but that's not his job and that's not my job.

1787
01:45:26,860 --> 01:45:29,000
My job is not a professional athlete.

1788
01:45:29,000 --> 01:45:31,200
His job is not a professional route setter.

1789
01:45:31,200 --> 01:45:37,360
The demand of each is different and rigorous and trying and in its own ways.

1790
01:45:37,360 --> 01:45:38,960
And neither of them are right or wrong.

1791
01:45:38,960 --> 01:45:41,240
They're just different, you know?

1792
01:45:41,240 --> 01:45:46,780
And like if he wanted, I will say this, if he wanted to be a professional route setter,

1793
01:45:46,780 --> 01:45:49,000
you know, granted he gained, I don't, I don't know him.

1794
01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:50,000
Like I know him well enough.

1795
01:45:50,000 --> 01:45:56,240
I don't know all of his ins and outs, but like granted he achieves the soft skills necessary.

1796
01:45:56,240 --> 01:46:00,320
He has the hard skills and the technical ability and the climbing ability to achieve whatever

1797
01:46:00,320 --> 01:46:04,640
he would want in the competition route setting world.

1798
01:46:04,640 --> 01:46:07,880
I would not have the same opportunity.

1799
01:46:07,880 --> 01:46:11,400
Like I, there's no way I could, you could give me all the days and the weeks in the

1800
01:46:11,400 --> 01:46:15,800
world and he is just a much more gifted athlete than I am, than I'll ever be.

1801
01:46:15,800 --> 01:46:19,200
So you don't think you could like make a US national team?

1802
01:46:19,200 --> 01:46:21,000
No, I don't think so.

1803
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:25,760
I, those athletes, I know maybe like, I mean, there's certain, there's certain styles maybe

1804
01:46:25,760 --> 01:46:30,280
that I would, that I have a preference or an affinity towards that I have found that

1805
01:46:30,280 --> 01:46:33,120
over the years that I'm more predisposed to.

1806
01:46:33,120 --> 01:46:39,000
And like, maybe I can do quicker than someone else or have like, I might be like, oh, that

1807
01:46:39,000 --> 01:46:41,480
didn't, you know, in my brain, I might think like, oh, that didn't feel so bad for me.

1808
01:46:41,480 --> 01:46:44,260
And then I watch other athletes perform or the route setters perform and they might be

1809
01:46:44,260 --> 01:46:46,040
struggling a little bit more.

1810
01:46:46,040 --> 01:46:47,860
And I'll be like, huh, interesting.

1811
01:46:47,860 --> 01:46:49,400
So yeah, there's situations like that.

1812
01:46:49,400 --> 01:46:54,720
But if it came like down to brass tacks, like no, like I don't think so at all.

1813
01:46:54,720 --> 01:46:55,720
I have competed though.

1814
01:46:55,720 --> 01:47:01,440
I mean, I've competed, I competed at Vail a couple of years ago.

1815
01:47:01,440 --> 01:47:02,440
Didn't do so great.

1816
01:47:02,440 --> 01:47:06,320
You know, like I just, I did it more for like learning, you know, like what is it like to

1817
01:47:06,320 --> 01:47:07,320
be on the other side of the curtain?

1818
01:47:07,320 --> 01:47:10,720
Because I think that helps, helped me be a little bit more well-rounded.

1819
01:47:10,720 --> 01:47:16,080
Yeah, a bit of a detour, but you're setting for Vail this year, right?

1820
01:47:16,080 --> 01:47:17,080
I am.

1821
01:47:17,080 --> 01:47:18,080
Yeah.

1822
01:47:18,080 --> 01:47:19,080
Yeah, I am super excited.

1823
01:47:19,080 --> 01:47:20,080
I'll be in June.

1824
01:47:20,080 --> 01:47:21,720
Probably try to get there a little bit early.

1825
01:47:21,720 --> 01:47:27,520
The altitude is wild or the altitude elevation is wild.

1826
01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:29,320
Oh crap.

1827
01:47:29,320 --> 01:47:30,320
Okay.

1828
01:47:30,320 --> 01:47:34,440
It can make performance difficult at that, at that level.

1829
01:47:34,440 --> 01:47:36,560
Oh no, that's not good.

1830
01:47:36,560 --> 01:47:37,560
But that's good to know.

1831
01:47:37,560 --> 01:47:38,560
Why is that?

1832
01:47:38,560 --> 01:47:39,560
Are you going to go compete?

1833
01:47:39,560 --> 01:47:49,000
I was convinced to sign up to compete by a previous podcast guest, Albert Oak.

1834
01:47:49,000 --> 01:47:55,040
And it's coming up and I'm not ready.

1835
01:47:55,040 --> 01:48:03,560
So just going to hope to, I don't think trying to not get last is a good goal because then

1836
01:48:03,560 --> 01:48:07,520
I'm like, my goal is dependent on how other people are doing.

1837
01:48:07,520 --> 01:48:13,520
So maybe I'll just like try to get a zone or something.

1838
01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:15,680
Yeah, that's an awesome way to look at it.

1839
01:48:15,680 --> 01:48:20,560
I think that's very astute, like don't compare your performance on others.

1840
01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:21,560
But like that's what I did.

1841
01:48:21,560 --> 01:48:25,080
I was like, I just want to get like a zone.

1842
01:48:25,080 --> 01:48:26,120
That was my goal.

1843
01:48:26,120 --> 01:48:27,960
And I got a couple zones, got a few zones.

1844
01:48:27,960 --> 01:48:33,880
I dropped a couple tops and I was like, damn, hell yeah, this is great.

1845
01:48:33,880 --> 01:48:38,400
And I had a fun time and just I went into it with like more fun, like let's just enjoy.

1846
01:48:38,400 --> 01:48:43,920
And if I think if I could unsolicitedly offer anything would just be like, if you go into

1847
01:48:43,920 --> 01:48:46,360
it like a fun aspect, don't be like, oh my God, it's coming.

1848
01:48:46,360 --> 01:48:48,200
I have to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1849
01:48:48,200 --> 01:48:49,200
Like nobody cares.

1850
01:48:49,200 --> 01:48:54,460
There was like this article years ago that was like, nobody cares that you rock climb.

1851
01:48:54,460 --> 01:48:57,240
You only care that you rock climb, but you think the other people care that you rock

1852
01:48:57,240 --> 01:48:58,240
climb.

1853
01:48:58,240 --> 01:48:59,240
You know what I mean?

1854
01:48:59,240 --> 01:49:03,760
And it was meant to be like a conversation to yourself of like, it's only about you.

1855
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:09,080
Like really your performance is about you and you should be like, be kind to yourself,

1856
01:49:09,080 --> 01:49:10,600
be kind to others kind of thing.

1857
01:49:10,600 --> 01:49:12,520
But like just worry about yourself.

1858
01:49:12,520 --> 01:49:16,080
And like if you're having fun, then that's all that matters.

1859
01:49:16,080 --> 01:49:18,240
But I will give you this bit of advice.

1860
01:49:18,240 --> 01:49:22,880
Get there early because that elevation is fucking bananas.

1861
01:49:22,880 --> 01:49:28,960
Like you will be sucking wind more than you care to know, literally.

1862
01:49:28,960 --> 01:49:35,920
So yeah, a couple days, flying a couple days early, go on a couple hikes, go up to even

1863
01:49:35,920 --> 01:49:41,200
higher, do that once or twice a day, eat a bunch of extra food, bunch of extra water,

1864
01:49:41,200 --> 01:49:42,880
drink too much alcohol.

1865
01:49:42,880 --> 01:49:44,360
That will help you a lot.

1866
01:49:44,360 --> 01:49:45,360
Oh gosh.

1867
01:49:45,360 --> 01:49:46,360
Okay.

1868
01:49:46,360 --> 01:49:47,360
I don't know why Vale was suggested.

1869
01:49:47,360 --> 01:49:48,800
I should have chosen a different one.

1870
01:49:48,800 --> 01:49:49,800
I like...

1871
01:49:49,800 --> 01:49:51,840
There's only, only Salt Lake is the other one.

1872
01:49:51,840 --> 01:49:52,840
Yeah.

1873
01:49:52,840 --> 01:49:55,120
I should have done this.

1874
01:49:55,120 --> 01:49:56,120
Vale's cool though.

1875
01:49:56,120 --> 01:49:58,040
Vale's like, you're going to get there.

1876
01:49:58,040 --> 01:50:00,040
Have you been there?

1877
01:50:00,040 --> 01:50:01,040
No.

1878
01:50:01,040 --> 01:50:05,000
You're going to get there and you're going to be like, okay, this is why I chose this

1879
01:50:05,000 --> 01:50:06,000
one.

1880
01:50:06,000 --> 01:50:11,000
Because the vent, like the environment, the venue, the spectacle, the like feel of it

1881
01:50:11,000 --> 01:50:18,920
is just like, it's very, it's pretty powerful.

1882
01:50:18,920 --> 01:50:24,520
Like this is, this is climbing to me when you just like see all these people come together,

1883
01:50:24,520 --> 01:50:26,500
there's mountains behind you.

1884
01:50:26,500 --> 01:50:30,120
There's people who don't know really about climbing at all, who are there like supporting

1885
01:50:30,120 --> 01:50:31,120
climbers.

1886
01:50:31,120 --> 01:50:36,160
The amount of spectators is for sure bigger than any other event that we have.

1887
01:50:36,160 --> 01:50:40,560
Like it, I don't mean that to scare you, but it's like, there's a lot of people there

1888
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:44,120
who are like fucking psyched that there's climbing going on.

1889
01:50:44,120 --> 01:50:45,360
And to me that gets me psyched.

1890
01:50:45,360 --> 01:50:47,200
Well, that'll be cool to see.

1891
01:50:47,200 --> 01:50:48,200
I mean, yeah.

1892
01:50:48,200 --> 01:50:51,880
I'm mostly just signing up to get the experience, see what it's about.

1893
01:50:51,880 --> 01:50:55,560
I, yeah, I don't even know how it goes.

1894
01:50:55,560 --> 01:50:58,080
Like I don't think, I don't, do people watch qualifiers?

1895
01:50:58,080 --> 01:50:59,080
Yeah.

1896
01:50:59,080 --> 01:51:00,080
Oh yeah.

1897
01:51:00,080 --> 01:51:01,760
It's like a fair venue.

1898
01:51:01,760 --> 01:51:07,840
So like anyone who's in like that Vale village, they'll just like walk up, you know, and hang

1899
01:51:07,840 --> 01:51:08,840
out.

1900
01:51:08,840 --> 01:51:09,840
And it's also like a whole weekend.

1901
01:51:09,840 --> 01:51:11,520
So it, it's like the GoPro games.

1902
01:51:11,520 --> 01:51:15,500
So they have like a youth component and they have a citizens component.

1903
01:51:15,500 --> 01:51:22,240
It's like, there are a lot of people who just come to experience climbing in the mountains,

1904
01:51:22,240 --> 01:51:25,880
you know, and come hang out in Vale even.

1905
01:51:25,880 --> 01:51:26,880
Cause it's just like a cool place.

1906
01:51:26,880 --> 01:51:31,440
I mean, yeah, there'll be people there watching qualifiers and if nothing else too, there's

1907
01:51:31,440 --> 01:51:36,560
like depending on number of participants will have like multiple waves.

1908
01:51:36,560 --> 01:51:41,500
So like, let's say you're in wave two, like all the wave one folks are going to watch

1909
01:51:41,500 --> 01:51:43,280
wave two and see how they perform.

1910
01:51:43,280 --> 01:51:48,320
And you know what I mean?

1911
01:51:48,320 --> 01:51:49,720
No matter what that's going to happen though.

1912
01:51:49,720 --> 01:51:50,720
That's going to happen in Salt Lake.

1913
01:51:50,720 --> 01:51:52,360
That's going to happen in, you know, in Vale.

1914
01:51:52,360 --> 01:51:53,360
So that just happens.

1915
01:51:53,360 --> 01:51:57,000
I'm starting to regret this decision a bit.

1916
01:51:57,000 --> 01:51:59,880
You're going to do just fine.

1917
01:51:59,880 --> 01:52:00,880
Yeah.

1918
01:52:00,880 --> 01:52:01,880
We'll see how that goes.

1919
01:52:01,880 --> 01:52:02,880
Maybe I'll, I'll message you.

1920
01:52:02,880 --> 01:52:05,040
You can let me know what the boulders are.

1921
01:52:05,040 --> 01:52:06,040
I can prepare.

1922
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:07,040
Yeah.

1923
01:52:07,040 --> 01:52:14,680
Uh, you know, this has been awesome, but I definitely respectfully won't do that, but

1924
01:52:14,680 --> 01:52:19,240
I'll tell you how much fun that you're going to have and that you should definitely come.

1925
01:52:19,240 --> 01:52:20,240
Yeah.

1926
01:52:20,240 --> 01:52:21,240
Okay.

1927
01:52:21,240 --> 01:52:22,240
Maybe see you there.

1928
01:52:22,240 --> 01:52:23,240
Okay.

1929
01:52:23,240 --> 01:52:24,240
Yeah.

1930
01:52:24,240 --> 01:52:29,400
But yeah, to distract myself from thinking about that anymore, let's get back into the

1931
01:52:29,400 --> 01:52:32,240
route setting.

1932
01:52:32,240 --> 01:52:39,200
How long are your days for route setting comparatively between sitting for IFSC versus maybe like

1933
01:52:39,200 --> 01:52:42,920
a national comp versus a local competition?

1934
01:52:42,920 --> 01:52:50,720
I'd say that like if it's a upper level, like national comp, you know, like let's say an

1935
01:52:50,720 --> 01:52:56,280
NACS or, um, I mean, honestly, any, honestly, any of the national comps, they're all, they

1936
01:52:56,280 --> 01:53:04,440
all have a different amount of, there's different things about them that make them have more

1937
01:53:04,440 --> 01:53:07,120
effort here versus more effort there.

1938
01:53:07,120 --> 01:53:13,560
And the example might be like, look at youth boulders, like the level of boulder problem

1939
01:53:13,560 --> 01:53:20,600
on any individual youth climb is like vastly lower than let's say your elite level nationals,

1940
01:53:20,600 --> 01:53:22,080
like your open nationals.

1941
01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:26,480
And then even more so comparatively to like, you know, a world cup, right?

1942
01:53:26,480 --> 01:53:30,640
But you have like a trillion boulders to set, you know?

1943
01:53:30,640 --> 01:53:34,480
So it's like this, there's just so many rounds of climbing.

1944
01:53:34,480 --> 01:53:37,960
So you know, but then you look at, you know, a world cup bouldering, you might say, okay,

1945
01:53:37,960 --> 01:53:42,480
I have very few boulders to set relatively speaking, but the level and attention to detail

1946
01:53:42,480 --> 01:53:43,640
and the viewership, right?

1947
01:53:43,640 --> 01:53:50,560
The optics that we talked about earlier, there's just so much going on that you have to see

1948
01:53:50,560 --> 01:53:54,400
to spend this time to make sure that it is as right or as close to right as you think

1949
01:53:54,400 --> 01:53:57,480
as possible.

1950
01:53:57,480 --> 01:54:04,880
So nationals and like a world cup, you know, they're pretty similar in terms of time investment,

1951
01:54:04,880 --> 01:54:05,880
I'd say.

1952
01:54:05,880 --> 01:54:09,840
The days look differently, what you're doing with your body and your time on those days

1953
01:54:09,840 --> 01:54:13,640
might be a little bit different.

1954
01:54:13,640 --> 01:54:19,040
Definitely you have to have, and depending on the level of competition, like let's say

1955
01:54:19,040 --> 01:54:23,360
I said, okay, we'll have Vail Citizens, right?

1956
01:54:23,360 --> 01:54:29,480
Which is like a red point round in Vail versus an NACS versus a Youth Boulders Nationals

1957
01:54:29,480 --> 01:54:31,600
versus an Adult Boulders Nationals and a World Cup.

1958
01:54:31,600 --> 01:54:38,000
You have this kind of like gradient almost of maybe they all roughly have a similar time

1959
01:54:38,000 --> 01:54:41,140
or something like that, like of investment that you have to set.

1960
01:54:41,140 --> 01:54:48,940
But what is asked of you as a rootsetter in terms of creativity and then as well as like

1961
01:54:48,940 --> 01:54:54,880
physical demand in terms of performance on boulder problems to be like the most valuable

1962
01:54:54,880 --> 01:54:58,600
member possible on the team increases.

1963
01:54:58,600 --> 01:54:59,600
You know what I mean?

1964
01:54:59,600 --> 01:55:04,200
So you just have to have the experience to back that a lot of times.

1965
01:55:04,200 --> 01:55:08,120
It doesn't mean that you have to, oh, everyone on the team has to climb AB if you're putting

1966
01:55:08,120 --> 01:55:09,120
a World Cup.

1967
01:55:09,120 --> 01:55:10,120
That's not the case.

1968
01:55:10,120 --> 01:55:13,640
But you have to, if you're not that person, you have to have then other skill sets to

1969
01:55:13,640 --> 01:55:18,560
help offset maybe that differential in some way, or at least add to it, maybe not offset,

1970
01:55:18,560 --> 01:55:21,320
but like add to it.

1971
01:55:21,320 --> 01:55:25,720
That's definitely not to say that the strongest rootsetters in terms of physical capability

1972
01:55:25,720 --> 01:55:27,640
are the best rootsetters.

1973
01:55:27,640 --> 01:55:31,280
There's many, many instances where that's actually not the case and that sometimes that

1974
01:55:31,280 --> 01:55:32,760
can be a hindrance.

1975
01:55:32,760 --> 01:55:36,160
So a lot of them people think like, oh, it's just these boulder bros who just like grunt

1976
01:55:36,160 --> 01:55:37,640
and take their shirts off and bro down.

1977
01:55:37,640 --> 01:55:42,240
Like no, maybe in the past, I don't know, maybe in the past that was a thing.

1978
01:55:42,240 --> 01:55:47,760
I personally do not enjoy that on my teams, whether I'm the chief or I'm an assistant

1979
01:55:47,760 --> 01:55:51,440
or whatever.

1980
01:55:51,440 --> 01:55:56,920
Definitely something that is more like low key and communal and like together goes quite

1981
01:55:56,920 --> 01:55:57,920
a long way for me.

1982
01:55:57,920 --> 01:56:02,280
But we do have a job to do and you do have to be able to, sometimes, sometimes you just

1983
01:56:02,280 --> 01:56:03,980
someone has to do the move.

1984
01:56:03,980 --> 01:56:08,160
Sometimes someone has to do the sequence and, you know, support that person in that moment

1985
01:56:08,160 --> 01:56:10,520
or support that team in that moment.

1986
01:56:10,520 --> 01:56:11,520
That's what's critical.

1987
01:56:11,520 --> 01:56:12,520
And it's nice.

1988
01:56:12,520 --> 01:56:17,380
It feels really, really, really, really nice if you can be that person sometimes, you know,

1989
01:56:17,380 --> 01:56:20,040
if you're like, oh, the team needs me right now.

1990
01:56:20,040 --> 01:56:25,280
Like, all right, like I can do this, you know, and that's those are my favorite, like personally

1991
01:56:25,280 --> 01:56:26,560
my favorite, favorite moments.

1992
01:56:26,560 --> 01:56:28,560
Like if there's, you know, it's 3 a.m.

1993
01:56:28,560 --> 01:56:33,800
This thing isn't going, you feel like you're spinning wheels and you're like, okay, the

1994
01:56:33,800 --> 01:56:34,800
team needs something right now.

1995
01:56:34,800 --> 01:56:40,560
We're gonna put on some good music, you know, like drink a coffee and we're gonna like start

1996
01:56:40,560 --> 01:56:42,040
firing things here.

1997
01:56:42,040 --> 01:56:44,960
And that's I love that.

1998
01:56:44,960 --> 01:56:45,960
That's great.

1999
01:56:45,960 --> 01:56:48,320
And that balance is key.

2000
01:56:48,320 --> 01:56:51,920
What makes a route setting team work for you?

2001
01:56:51,920 --> 01:56:56,560
So we talk about this a lot in different like workshop and clinics that I do.

2002
01:56:56,560 --> 01:57:03,440
It's like what makes a great route setter or better even to go further, like what makes

2003
01:57:03,440 --> 01:57:07,880
a great route setter that you know, like someone that you know, what makes them, what sets

2004
01:57:07,880 --> 01:57:08,880
them apart.

2005
01:57:08,880 --> 01:57:13,880
So maybe this is a similar question.

2006
01:57:13,880 --> 01:57:19,280
So from like an individual level, someone who's a good communicator, someone who's able

2007
01:57:19,280 --> 01:57:25,120
to like both give and receive feedback well and in different ways at different times,

2008
01:57:25,120 --> 01:57:29,880
someone who's able to manage stress well, someone who's able to manage themselves and

2009
01:57:29,880 --> 01:57:31,920
their own personal life well.

2010
01:57:31,920 --> 01:57:37,120
I know that sounds silly, but like, are you someone that like needs to like have their

2011
01:57:37,120 --> 01:57:42,360
handheld to like go get food, go get coffee, go get water, go like whatever, or are you

2012
01:57:42,360 --> 01:57:46,920
someone who's like a self-starter and can like knows when they need to turn it on and

2013
01:57:46,920 --> 01:57:51,000
turn it back and like manage their own performance throughout the week?

2014
01:57:51,000 --> 01:57:54,040
Do you have a good attitude?

2015
01:57:54,040 --> 01:57:56,400
Are you fun to be around?

2016
01:57:56,400 --> 01:58:00,800
Do I want to spend the next nine days with you?

2017
01:58:00,800 --> 01:58:03,040
You know, because I make this joke sometimes.

2018
01:58:03,040 --> 01:58:07,960
It's like a lot of times, you know, we'll be in hotel rooms together or like, you know,

2019
01:58:07,960 --> 01:58:10,240
rooms that have bunk beds or something like that.

2020
01:58:10,240 --> 01:58:17,880
And it's like, if you and I are on a team, do I want to be with dealing with Ginny every

2021
01:58:17,880 --> 01:58:18,880
day?

2022
01:58:18,880 --> 01:58:21,440
And I mean that in every sense of the word, like respectfully, like I wake up and I open

2023
01:58:21,440 --> 01:58:23,880
my eyes and there she is across the room staring at me.

2024
01:58:23,880 --> 01:58:27,960
And then I go downstairs and she's brushing her teeth and then like she's making coffee

2025
01:58:27,960 --> 01:58:31,600
and then we go to the wall and then we're conversing during the day and then we eat

2026
01:58:31,600 --> 01:58:34,520
lunch and it just goes and then you and then you go to bed.

2027
01:58:34,520 --> 01:58:35,520
Good night.

2028
01:58:35,520 --> 01:58:36,520
And you close your eyes.

2029
01:58:36,520 --> 01:58:37,520
Right.

2030
01:58:37,520 --> 01:58:41,720
And then I see last thing I see, like you want this person to be somebody that you like

2031
01:58:41,720 --> 01:58:47,040
care to be around, you know, and if things get tough, what is their response to things

2032
01:58:47,040 --> 01:58:48,640
that are tough?

2033
01:58:48,640 --> 01:58:49,800
How do they deal with that?

2034
01:58:49,800 --> 01:58:53,720
And that can be a quite an important thing as a team member as well.

2035
01:58:53,720 --> 01:59:01,800
Like what's your penchant for dealing with adversity in difficult times?

2036
01:59:01,800 --> 01:59:06,280
So those are just, I mean, then there's all the hard skills, you know, climbing ability

2037
01:59:06,280 --> 01:59:11,680
level, mastery of movement, you know, are they able to use their resources creatively?

2038
01:59:11,680 --> 01:59:12,680
Do they know the field?

2039
01:59:12,680 --> 01:59:17,280
Do they know how to calibrate if this, then this, right?

2040
01:59:17,280 --> 01:59:20,400
What do those skill sets look like on the fly or do they need to be told?

2041
01:59:20,400 --> 01:59:21,400
You know what I mean?

2042
01:59:21,400 --> 01:59:24,480
Like there's quite a lot of things, but those are some of them.

2043
01:59:24,480 --> 01:59:25,480
Oh yeah.

2044
01:59:25,480 --> 01:59:26,480
It's like a whole relationship.

2045
01:59:26,480 --> 01:59:27,480
Yeah, no, literally.

2046
01:59:27,480 --> 01:59:28,480
Yeah.

2047
01:59:28,480 --> 01:59:34,000
It's like such a relationship with eight other people, you know, or seven other people, you

2048
01:59:34,000 --> 01:59:35,000
know?

2049
01:59:35,000 --> 01:59:36,000
Yeah.

2050
01:59:36,000 --> 01:59:37,400
And I think a diverse team too.

2051
01:59:37,400 --> 01:59:44,040
Like I definitely do not love when it doesn't happen so often anymore, but like when all

2052
01:59:44,040 --> 01:59:48,400
the climbers look the same, feel the same, climb the same.

2053
01:59:48,400 --> 01:59:50,400
That's not great.

2054
01:59:50,400 --> 01:59:58,240
Jack of all trades, master a none is I think increasingly a thing of the past for a high

2055
01:59:58,240 --> 02:00:00,520
performance route setting.

2056
02:00:00,520 --> 02:00:08,040
I think naturally you have to have an exceptional level of all these things that I mentioned,

2057
02:00:08,040 --> 02:00:10,200
including climbing styles and whatever.

2058
02:00:10,200 --> 02:00:15,160
But if you have a few things that you're like exceptional at that really set you apart,

2059
02:00:15,160 --> 02:00:20,040
that are like the ace up your sleeve, that's fucking awesome.

2060
02:00:20,040 --> 02:00:25,440
Because like if I'm like, oh yeah, Ginny, like I really need this like men's quarter

2061
02:00:25,440 --> 02:00:30,720
boulder to be like really hard, like really only want like to see three zones and like

2062
02:00:30,720 --> 02:00:32,320
one to two tops.

2063
02:00:32,320 --> 02:00:33,920
And you're like, got it.

2064
02:00:33,920 --> 02:00:35,320
I know exactly what you're looking for.

2065
02:00:35,320 --> 02:00:36,320
I've done this a million times.

2066
02:00:36,320 --> 02:00:41,080
And that's not to say that you're like the end all be all, but like your knowledge of

2067
02:00:41,080 --> 02:00:46,320
what that level looks like and how that's going to present itself on the wall.

2068
02:00:46,320 --> 02:00:50,520
And ultimately, yeah, okay, there's different ways we can do it, but you have a good feeling

2069
02:00:50,520 --> 02:00:55,120
and then you can get that feeling really close so that with the team or the small group can

2070
02:00:55,120 --> 02:01:02,320
come together and the team can come together and make adjustments or adaptions as needed

2071
02:01:02,320 --> 02:01:03,320
and have the conversation.

2072
02:01:03,320 --> 02:01:07,640
And ultimately, you know, we make the calls as the team, but you can get us there a lot

2073
02:01:07,640 --> 02:01:13,840
closer as opposed to like if you were or I was like, I don't know, I'm not really good

2074
02:01:13,840 --> 02:01:17,400
at Cordo or I'm not really great at that style or I'm not, you know, like I don't really

2075
02:01:17,400 --> 02:01:18,520
know what that looks like.

2076
02:01:18,520 --> 02:01:24,000
Then your first draft or second draft might actually be quite far off, right?

2077
02:01:24,000 --> 02:01:26,360
And then there's more effort that needs to be put in.

2078
02:01:26,360 --> 02:01:30,360
So you just multiply that out over the work week.

2079
02:01:30,360 --> 02:01:34,360
And before you know it, you're like, ah, it's pretty sweet to have different people who

2080
02:01:34,360 --> 02:01:38,560
are good at different things and different sizes and different, you know, knowledge bases

2081
02:01:38,560 --> 02:01:39,920
all coming together.

2082
02:01:39,920 --> 02:01:40,920
What's your expertise?

2083
02:01:40,920 --> 02:01:41,920
My expertise?

2084
02:01:41,920 --> 02:01:42,920
I don't know.

2085
02:01:42,920 --> 02:01:44,520
I like to be fun to be around.

2086
02:01:44,520 --> 02:01:50,960
I like to like make people be happy and have a good comp week and motivate people.

2087
02:01:50,960 --> 02:01:54,400
And those things are quite important to me.

2088
02:01:54,400 --> 02:02:03,120
I'd say if it was like a climbing style, I try really hard to work on my weaknesses.

2089
02:02:03,120 --> 02:02:08,240
My weaknesses are like I'm really not great at like small holds overhanging.

2090
02:02:08,240 --> 02:02:18,100
For example, I'm a bigger guy, probably the heaviest international like person who sets

2091
02:02:18,100 --> 02:02:25,360
internationally for competitions by quite a bit, like 200 pounds if I'm feeling fit as

2092
02:02:25,360 --> 02:02:26,840
a fiddle.

2093
02:02:26,840 --> 02:02:33,920
Usually sit around like 215, 220, 225, sometimes more.

2094
02:02:33,920 --> 02:02:36,920
But then with that, right, that's not just all negative.

2095
02:02:36,920 --> 02:02:41,600
You know, I typically retain muscle a little bit differently than your average climber.

2096
02:02:41,600 --> 02:02:48,440
So things that are more pushing oriented, those like jump press moves, you know, even

2097
02:02:48,440 --> 02:02:49,680
on more difficult versions.

2098
02:02:49,680 --> 02:02:57,640
I actually for me personally, they feel like once they're finalized, I'm like, oh, okay,

2099
02:02:57,640 --> 02:02:59,520
that doesn't feel so bad.

2100
02:02:59,520 --> 02:03:02,200
Like you're talking like upper body triceps and biceps.

2101
02:03:02,200 --> 02:03:03,880
And I'm like, oh, I have that.

2102
02:03:03,880 --> 02:03:05,440
Like that's cool, you know, maybe.

2103
02:03:05,440 --> 02:03:10,520
But if I'm grabbing small edges in a roof and doing all kinds of crazy moves, like that's

2104
02:03:10,520 --> 02:03:13,480
much harder for me.

2105
02:03:13,480 --> 02:03:18,040
Lower body cordial, upper body, lower body and like, you know, I was kind of discussing

2106
02:03:18,040 --> 02:03:23,680
earlier like those I found higher success with and then even like certain types of slab

2107
02:03:23,680 --> 02:03:28,840
as well, maybe not the most technical and precise on like very small edges.

2108
02:03:28,840 --> 02:03:30,240
Again, I have like a bigger chest.

2109
02:03:30,240 --> 02:03:35,880
So a lot of times it like pushes me back a little bit and the center of gravity isn't

2110
02:03:35,880 --> 02:03:42,040
as ideal for my pinnacle of performance as I would love it.

2111
02:03:42,040 --> 02:03:46,520
But if it's like I have really weirdly like flexible ankles, probably from like playing

2112
02:03:46,520 --> 02:03:54,400
hockey and that lower body lower leg power is pretty good.

2113
02:03:54,400 --> 02:04:00,520
So I think like in those types of situations where I can accentuate that and then maybe

2114
02:04:00,520 --> 02:04:05,800
like strong lower back and stuff again, like for pushing and pressing and compressing too.

2115
02:04:05,800 --> 02:04:07,280
I mean, that's fine.

2116
02:04:07,280 --> 02:04:12,920
But if I were to pick a few things that maybe those would be more standouty.

2117
02:04:12,920 --> 02:04:18,400
So that's kind of what you bring to your setting as well.

2118
02:04:18,400 --> 02:04:19,400
It depends.

2119
02:04:19,400 --> 02:04:26,360
Like if it's like a local comp or a regional or divisional, something like that, like then

2120
02:04:26,360 --> 02:04:31,400
relatively speaking, everything for me, I feel comfortable.

2121
02:04:31,400 --> 02:04:34,640
I feel comfortable at providing any, any whatever the team needs.

2122
02:04:34,640 --> 02:04:37,360
I'm comfortable providing that in any situation.

2123
02:04:37,360 --> 02:04:43,520
I feel like I have the experience now and the knowledge to like draw from actual moments

2124
02:04:43,520 --> 02:04:48,800
in time and be like, and apply them to the setting.

2125
02:04:48,800 --> 02:04:53,520
So for, yeah, especially for the lower level, lower level events, like, yeah, okay, whatever,

2126
02:04:53,520 --> 02:04:54,520
whatever you need.

2127
02:04:54,520 --> 02:04:58,360
But then if it's like, if someone's like, all right, Cody, we need you to set like the

2128
02:04:58,360 --> 02:05:03,880
hardest thing and we really need it to be like unique and special and funky or whatever,

2129
02:05:03,880 --> 02:05:08,000
what do you got for me that you only, and you only got an hour, you know, like you,

2130
02:05:08,000 --> 02:05:10,560
there's like some time constraint or something like that.

2131
02:05:10,560 --> 02:05:15,520
I'm going to, anybody I think would naturally default to the thing that you feel the most

2132
02:05:15,520 --> 02:05:18,040
comfortable with because you're like, okay, there's constraints here.

2133
02:05:18,040 --> 02:05:19,040
There's eyes on me.

2134
02:05:19,040 --> 02:05:21,840
I have to achieve this goal.

2135
02:05:21,840 --> 02:05:28,160
I'm probably going to default to one of those things that I previously mentioned unless

2136
02:05:28,160 --> 02:05:31,440
explicitly as otherwise, in which case, hey, all right, like I'm up for a challenge.

2137
02:05:31,440 --> 02:05:32,800
Let's go.

2138
02:05:32,800 --> 02:05:36,560
And then one last question about routes setting in general.

2139
02:05:36,560 --> 02:05:38,520
I think I feel this way.

2140
02:05:38,520 --> 02:05:45,360
I think a few other people have felt this as well.

2141
02:05:45,360 --> 02:05:52,840
I feel like when I watch USA, like national comps, the setting feels and looks pretty

2142
02:05:52,840 --> 02:05:58,040
different from what I see on like an international circuit.

2143
02:05:58,040 --> 02:06:01,420
And I just, I don't really know why.

2144
02:06:01,420 --> 02:06:07,240
Is this something that you feel like is the case or are we just like, are we just seeing

2145
02:06:07,240 --> 02:06:08,240
things?

2146
02:06:08,240 --> 02:06:09,560
I don't think that you're just seeing things.

2147
02:06:09,560 --> 02:06:13,720
Cause if you're feel like your feelings are valid, right?

2148
02:06:13,720 --> 02:06:15,840
You're picking up on something.

2149
02:06:15,840 --> 02:06:21,680
What that is to you, I don't, I don't know, but I would, I mean, maybe I'd ask some questions

2150
02:06:21,680 --> 02:06:29,720
as to like, do you think that it's, it's probably pattern driven, but what type of pattern?

2151
02:06:29,720 --> 02:06:30,720
I don't know.

2152
02:06:30,720 --> 02:06:34,360
Are there movement patterns that maybe you feel that are different?

2153
02:06:34,360 --> 02:06:38,400
Is it like hold shapes as patterns?

2154
02:06:38,400 --> 02:06:41,560
Is it like the placement of holds or volumes?

2155
02:06:41,560 --> 02:06:44,580
It could be stylistically.

2156
02:06:44,580 --> 02:06:47,520
Are we representing different things?

2157
02:06:47,520 --> 02:06:54,720
And I'd say any number of these could be the case.

2158
02:06:54,720 --> 02:07:01,920
If nothing else, I would say that if you've, depending on how long anyone has been following

2159
02:07:01,920 --> 02:07:05,840
competition climbing for, this will help inform this like next part, but like, let's say you've

2160
02:07:05,840 --> 02:07:15,960
only been really following competition climbing since like 2019 or 2020 in the U S then unfortunately

2161
02:07:15,960 --> 02:07:23,800
you've only got to really see our high level events in climbing gyms.

2162
02:07:23,800 --> 02:07:30,120
Prior to that, you were seeing our events being held at very large scale convention

2163
02:07:30,120 --> 02:07:31,120
centers.

2164
02:07:31,120 --> 02:07:36,040
So like for both youth and adult nationals.

2165
02:07:36,040 --> 02:07:41,280
So that alone with like having like this big wall that is shipped in with holds that are

2166
02:07:41,280 --> 02:07:45,720
shipped in with like even the camera angle, like you're not like when you see a camera

2167
02:07:45,720 --> 02:07:50,120
angle, it's like the wall and then the backlighting and the judges and the audience, right?

2168
02:07:50,120 --> 02:07:55,760
Like if you look back at, I don't know, Madison, Wisconsin, 2016 adult bouldering nationals,

2169
02:07:55,760 --> 02:07:59,240
you know, okay, you'll see like dated holds maybe, and maybe the movement styles are a

2170
02:07:59,240 --> 02:08:05,680
little bit more like OG, but the feel you'll be like, oh, this is like a presentation.

2171
02:08:05,680 --> 02:08:09,400
Like they're, they've created an environment here.

2172
02:08:09,400 --> 02:08:14,400
Whereas for like a trillion reasons that take a whole other three hour conversation to get

2173
02:08:14,400 --> 02:08:19,240
through, you said climbing has shifted things quite a bit.

2174
02:08:19,240 --> 02:08:24,040
And now you see our nationals, like I think last, you know, the last couple of years,

2175
02:08:24,040 --> 02:08:28,040
they're being held at, at a commercial climbing gyms.

2176
02:08:28,040 --> 02:08:36,320
And so I think that does, if, if all other things are held equal, that feel is a little

2177
02:08:36,320 --> 02:08:41,960
bit lost, you know, that like presentation is a little bit lost because, you know, you're

2178
02:08:41,960 --> 02:08:47,620
seeing like these like super high end climbs being put on commercial climbing walls.

2179
02:08:47,620 --> 02:08:51,580
And I don't know what it is, but like maybe, maybe if you look back or like anyone who's

2180
02:08:51,580 --> 02:08:55,280
listening like looks back, you might be able to identify what that looks like for yourself.

2181
02:08:55,280 --> 02:08:59,920
Because I know, I know I see it and I feel it, but maybe that's just like me as like

2182
02:08:59,920 --> 02:09:04,760
a roots header who's been kind of on both sides of the coin there.

2183
02:09:04,760 --> 02:09:09,400
And I, with the IFSC, you see like a very, like if it's a world cup, you see a very,

2184
02:09:09,400 --> 02:09:18,960
very pointed and concerted effort by the event organizers and the IFSC to create this like

2185
02:09:18,960 --> 02:09:25,800
exceptionally high quality competition environment.

2186
02:09:25,800 --> 02:09:30,960
So if nothing else, I think you notice that, that'd be my guess, but you're probably

2187
02:09:30,960 --> 02:09:32,720
noticing other things as well.

2188
02:09:32,720 --> 02:09:34,680
Hold sponsors are different, right?

2189
02:09:34,680 --> 02:09:39,200
Volume sponsors are sitting in different flavor of climbing is maybe, maybe favored

2190
02:09:39,200 --> 02:09:40,720
here or there a little bit more.

2191
02:09:40,720 --> 02:09:46,440
So, so you don't like explicitly go into a comp thinking that you'll set maybe like

2192
02:09:46,440 --> 02:09:52,800
something more powerful for a national competition versus like something more flashy for a world

2193
02:09:52,800 --> 02:09:53,800
cup.

2194
02:09:53,800 --> 02:09:55,400
No, but I think, I think that's a good point.

2195
02:09:55,400 --> 02:10:01,600
I think it that happens naturally, because like there's certain styles of moves and

2196
02:10:01,600 --> 02:10:08,320
certain certain aspects of climbing that like, whether we like it or not, they're just gonna

2197
02:10:08,320 --> 02:10:13,920
it's, it's gonna be really hard to represent at a lower level.

2198
02:10:13,920 --> 02:10:17,840
I'll give you an example.

2199
02:10:17,840 --> 02:10:24,320
I've referenced this comp earlier, like Marengin, I think it was 2021 or 2022.

2200
02:10:24,320 --> 02:10:30,280
There was, it was like one of the first years where they released these, like the cheetah

2201
02:10:30,280 --> 02:10:31,280
ball volumes.

2202
02:10:31,280 --> 02:10:33,240
They're like these orange slices, basically.

2203
02:10:33,240 --> 02:10:38,320
And they're like, as you build them out, or as you like stack them, they build out the

2204
02:10:38,320 --> 02:10:39,320
wall.

2205
02:10:39,320 --> 02:10:44,000
Anyways, they, they kind of unveiled them there, if my memory serves, and they set this

2206
02:10:44,000 --> 02:10:50,680
like, I don't know, penta paddle across the wall with like black volumes and blue holds

2207
02:10:50,680 --> 02:10:54,240
and all these athletes are maybe it was even like six paddles.

2208
02:10:54,240 --> 02:10:55,240
I don't know.

2209
02:10:55,240 --> 02:10:59,240
I just remember seeing just like flying with these athletes.

2210
02:10:59,240 --> 02:11:04,440
It just, it just looked like, like a, like a gif that was just like perfectly edited,

2211
02:11:04,440 --> 02:11:08,720
you know, or they just like constantly hand moves like going like this and seemingly like

2212
02:11:08,720 --> 02:11:09,720
never stopped.

2213
02:11:09,720 --> 02:11:14,740
Like, I don't, I just don't know if there's a world where you can represent that really

2214
02:11:14,740 --> 02:11:23,200
well in a youth nationals or an ACS and still meet the needs of the event.

2215
02:11:23,200 --> 02:11:26,080
You know, maybe there's an athlete who could do that.

2216
02:11:26,080 --> 02:11:27,080
Cool.

2217
02:11:27,080 --> 02:11:30,640
But that athlete's going to perform on every other style as well.

2218
02:11:30,640 --> 02:11:34,760
If they're that far above and beyond, they're going to perform well at other things as well.

2219
02:11:34,760 --> 02:11:39,480
So maybe then as Root Setters, we could do a better job at like allowing the rest of

2220
02:11:39,480 --> 02:11:44,400
the field to perform, to compete, to show their skills and not just smash them and then

2221
02:11:44,400 --> 02:11:51,400
make this the, you know, little Timmy show or whatever it is, you know, like, so I think

2222
02:11:51,400 --> 02:11:56,240
at the highest level, you can really, really push those things because those athletes are

2223
02:11:56,240 --> 02:11:57,720
the highest level athlete.

2224
02:11:57,720 --> 02:11:58,720
Okay.

2225
02:11:58,720 --> 02:11:59,720
That makes sense.

2226
02:11:59,720 --> 02:12:00,720
Good explanation.

2227
02:12:00,720 --> 02:12:01,720
Okay.

2228
02:12:01,720 --> 02:12:07,960
Let's move on to your personal gym pursuit that's coming up.

2229
02:12:07,960 --> 02:12:10,640
You are starting up your own gym.

2230
02:12:10,640 --> 02:12:12,320
Where are you in the process of that?

2231
02:12:12,320 --> 02:12:13,640
And also how long has it been?

2232
02:12:13,640 --> 02:12:17,880
Because I, you made it sound earlier, like it's, it's been a really long time.

2233
02:12:17,880 --> 02:12:20,800
In my mind, it's been a really long time.

2234
02:12:20,800 --> 02:12:24,800
Basically when I, when I'm up here, like where we're at, it's a, it's like, I don't know,

2235
02:12:24,800 --> 02:12:27,760
it's like an hour south of Boston and an hour east of Providence.

2236
02:12:27,760 --> 02:12:31,600
That's kind of how I'm describing it to folks who aren't from around here.

2237
02:12:31,600 --> 02:12:38,400
It's like southeastern Massachusetts, not quite Cape Cod, but it's like a climbing dead zone.

2238
02:12:38,400 --> 02:12:41,560
There's just like not climbing around here, both outdoor.

2239
02:12:41,560 --> 02:12:47,240
There's some outdoor if you, if you drive a bit indoor, it's, there's nothing, there's

2240
02:12:47,240 --> 02:12:48,880
nothing down the Cape.

2241
02:12:48,880 --> 02:12:53,040
As you approach Boston, there's increasingly some climbing and as you approach Providence,

2242
02:12:53,040 --> 02:13:00,000
there's increasingly some, but you know, if I'm being as objective as I can, not as a

2243
02:13:00,000 --> 02:13:11,840
gym owner or soon to be gym owner, the quality of the gym experience is lacking tremendously,

2244
02:13:11,840 --> 02:13:15,840
even at the gyms that exist that are up to, you know, an hour plus away.

2245
02:13:15,840 --> 02:13:19,720
So I would, you know, drive to these places and I'm like, God damn it.

2246
02:13:19,720 --> 02:13:26,000
I'm like spending all day getting stuck in traffic, fighting, spending, you know, $30

2247
02:13:26,000 --> 02:13:29,480
on a day pass and like climbing on these, these environments.

2248
02:13:29,480 --> 02:13:33,400
And I'm just like not inspired by at all.

2249
02:13:33,400 --> 02:13:40,160
And but why is it that I go to, I go to Southern California, I go to Miami, I go to, I go to

2250
02:13:40,160 --> 02:13:42,280
Houston, you know, wherever I go to anywhere.

2251
02:13:42,280 --> 02:13:46,320
And like they, they're pushing and there's a lot of reasons for that, I think.

2252
02:13:46,320 --> 02:13:51,600
But I was like, all right, I'm tired of, I'm tired of coming home and not climbing, you

2253
02:13:51,600 --> 02:13:54,200
know, because I just, I got to a point where I just refused.

2254
02:13:54,200 --> 02:13:55,200
I was just like, you know, I'm done.

2255
02:13:55,200 --> 02:14:01,880
I'm not driving an hour, an hour and a half each way to, to do this.

2256
02:14:01,880 --> 02:14:05,920
So yeah, we opened, we, I created this like concept and then I, you know, was talking

2257
02:14:05,920 --> 02:14:10,120
to my wife about it and I was talking to my partners, now partners about it.

2258
02:14:10,120 --> 02:14:13,920
And so, you know, we've, we were kind of flirting with the idea for a while, like, ah, this

2259
02:14:13,920 --> 02:14:14,920
could be cool.

2260
02:14:14,920 --> 02:14:18,800
Maybe we'll do a co-op, maybe we'll do even just like something small.

2261
02:14:18,800 --> 02:14:23,240
And then, you know, all things kind of came together and we were like, okay, let's like

2262
02:14:23,240 --> 02:14:25,880
make an actual bouldering gym.

2263
02:14:25,880 --> 02:14:31,280
And so, and depending on what your timeline you're actually looking at, I mean, we didn't

2264
02:14:31,280 --> 02:14:36,000
sign the lease on our space until November of last year.

2265
02:14:36,000 --> 02:14:39,920
So it's only been a couple months and we've been building out since.

2266
02:14:39,920 --> 02:14:44,560
We finalized the design process.

2267
02:14:44,560 --> 02:14:53,560
So all the angles are fixed and the walls are looking sharp and even the interior, like

2268
02:14:53,560 --> 02:14:58,480
just moving right along, painting and repairs and all that kind of stuff because it's in

2269
02:14:58,480 --> 02:14:59,480
an old bank.

2270
02:14:59,480 --> 02:15:00,920
It's in a bank from the 1800s.

2271
02:15:00,920 --> 02:15:01,920
Whoa.

2272
02:15:01,920 --> 02:15:04,240
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty, pretty wild.

2273
02:15:04,240 --> 02:15:05,880
It's a really unique looking space.

2274
02:15:05,880 --> 02:15:08,840
Like if you look at it from the outside, you're like, there's no way it's climbing.

2275
02:15:08,840 --> 02:15:12,520
It's like a huge cut quarried granite that was shipped in.

2276
02:15:12,520 --> 02:15:18,960
And like the interior is all like this yellow cream marble that was shipped in from Italy

2277
02:15:18,960 --> 02:15:19,960
in the 1800s.

2278
02:15:19,960 --> 02:15:24,480
It's like brass fixtures and like mahogany.

2279
02:15:24,480 --> 02:15:27,960
Yeah, in the climbing gym.

2280
02:15:27,960 --> 02:15:29,840
There's like fireplaces in every room.

2281
02:15:29,840 --> 02:15:30,840
Super cool.

2282
02:15:30,840 --> 02:15:31,840
What?

2283
02:15:31,840 --> 02:15:32,840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2284
02:15:32,840 --> 02:15:34,080
Yeah, it's wild.

2285
02:15:34,080 --> 02:15:36,400
So we're cruising.

2286
02:15:36,400 --> 02:15:38,720
We're chugging right along.

2287
02:15:38,720 --> 02:15:41,240
We're hoping to be open by May, June.

2288
02:15:41,240 --> 02:15:43,520
Maybe that's a bit...

2289
02:15:43,520 --> 02:15:51,240
Yeah, maybe it's a bit ambitious, but it really just depends on the city signing off on our

2290
02:15:51,240 --> 02:15:52,240
plans basically.

2291
02:15:52,240 --> 02:15:56,600
And the city in particular, this one is a little, can be difficult sometimes for weird

2292
02:15:56,600 --> 02:15:57,600
reasons.

2293
02:15:57,600 --> 02:16:03,200
And then engineering, because it is such an old space, just making sure that the floors

2294
02:16:03,200 --> 02:16:08,040
are going to support the uplift loads for the angles and stuff.

2295
02:16:08,040 --> 02:16:13,280
But we have strategies if certain things don't go the way we want, it just, they could take

2296
02:16:13,280 --> 02:16:15,400
longer is all.

2297
02:16:15,400 --> 02:16:19,440
So if nothing else, I mean, yeah, summertime, be open.

2298
02:16:19,440 --> 02:16:25,840
Be like a little over 3,000 square feet of space, 3,200.

2299
02:16:25,840 --> 02:16:33,120
I designed the walls and picked out the holds myself and kind of have a combo basically

2300
02:16:33,120 --> 02:16:38,640
of kind of like your old school New England climbing, because there's a huge amount of

2301
02:16:38,640 --> 02:16:45,600
people who are very attached to that, but also provide opportunities for this newer

2302
02:16:45,600 --> 02:16:51,960
age of climbing and route setting experience for folks and offering that in our commercial

2303
02:16:51,960 --> 02:16:58,760
day-to-day setting, but also bringing in athletes and teams from around.

2304
02:16:58,760 --> 02:17:04,600
So like I was talking with Natalia the other day, and we're going to be working together

2305
02:17:04,600 --> 02:17:09,840
for a couple of things and kind of in her preparation to Paris.

2306
02:17:09,840 --> 02:17:13,740
And depending on timeline and a trillion other things, who knows, like I'll try to get her

2307
02:17:13,740 --> 02:17:22,280
in and run like right when we open, run like her and maybe Jesse through a workshop or

2308
02:17:22,280 --> 02:17:23,800
a simulation or something like that.

2309
02:17:23,800 --> 02:17:31,180
So providing the resources to kind of do all the things because I want people to be able

2310
02:17:31,180 --> 02:17:35,000
to like a lot of times, especially around here, you know, if they have a cool set of

2311
02:17:35,000 --> 02:17:39,960
holds, cool set of fiberglass or volumes, they get like earmarks for like V8 and up

2312
02:17:39,960 --> 02:17:41,040
or something.

2313
02:17:41,040 --> 02:17:44,940
But the general climbing community might be climbing V4 or V5.

2314
02:17:44,940 --> 02:17:49,500
And so my concept was like, I want people who climb V2 to have like the coolest holds

2315
02:17:49,500 --> 02:17:56,040
and volumes to like play on and explore and learn and like because look at the repeatability

2316
02:17:56,040 --> 02:17:57,040
for that.

2317
02:17:57,040 --> 02:18:01,200
Like no matter what you climb, you always need to warm up or you should be warming up.

2318
02:18:01,200 --> 02:18:02,940
So you're going to climb that V2 again.

2319
02:18:02,940 --> 02:18:04,720
But then the people who are projecting that can climb it.

2320
02:18:04,720 --> 02:18:06,200
People who climb V3 are going to climb.

2321
02:18:06,200 --> 02:18:07,200
You know what I mean?

2322
02:18:07,200 --> 02:18:12,080
Like so investing really in like all levels of the community and not just like cutting

2323
02:18:12,080 --> 02:18:16,320
corners because like traditionally that's what we've done.

2324
02:18:16,320 --> 02:18:17,320
I don't know.

2325
02:18:17,320 --> 02:18:18,800
Trying to like push it, push it a little bit.

2326
02:18:18,800 --> 02:18:26,120
Yeah, I mean, it's always good to keep like beginners in mind and setting attractive boulders

2327
02:18:26,120 --> 02:18:29,240
for beginners as well.

2328
02:18:29,240 --> 02:18:33,620
What are your favorite parts of the gym that kind of set it apart for you?

2329
02:18:33,620 --> 02:18:39,080
Or like sometimes when I walk into like a friend's new house or something, I just want

2330
02:18:39,080 --> 02:18:43,900
to know like what quirks of their house or apartment they really like.

2331
02:18:43,900 --> 02:18:46,140
So what is that for you in this gym?

2332
02:18:46,140 --> 02:18:53,080
I think it's all the strangeness of the old build.

2333
02:18:53,080 --> 02:18:55,120
So it was an old Federal Reserve Bank.

2334
02:18:55,120 --> 02:19:01,160
Like I was saying, I think it was built in like 1896.

2335
02:19:01,160 --> 02:19:07,600
You know, like huge granite blocks, wrought iron, steel, there's stained glass windows

2336
02:19:07,600 --> 02:19:08,600
inside.

2337
02:19:08,600 --> 02:19:10,840
I was mentioning the marble.

2338
02:19:10,840 --> 02:19:13,040
Like all the fixtures are like kind of grand.

2339
02:19:13,040 --> 02:19:15,920
It was like a lot of it was renovated in the 20s.

2340
02:19:15,920 --> 02:19:20,280
So it was art deco feel, 39 foot clear height ceilings.

2341
02:19:20,280 --> 02:19:23,640
There's mosaic work on the floor.

2342
02:19:23,640 --> 02:19:25,200
There's like white marble tile on the floor.

2343
02:19:25,200 --> 02:19:26,200
Like, you know what I mean?

2344
02:19:26,200 --> 02:19:27,200
It's just like crazy.

2345
02:19:27,200 --> 02:19:31,720
It almost feels like a museum, you know?

2346
02:19:31,720 --> 02:19:33,800
But like we're going to put new age climbing in there.

2347
02:19:33,800 --> 02:19:36,460
And so I don't know, I just want, I want it to be a place and I think it'll be a place

2348
02:19:36,460 --> 02:19:40,760
where people like generally can just like go and like hang out, you know, and like,

2349
02:19:40,760 --> 02:19:44,680
yeah, you want to climb a little bit cool, but you can just like hang out with your buddies,

2350
02:19:44,680 --> 02:19:48,960
get a coffee and like see what's up and kind of be that like communal watering hole.

2351
02:19:48,960 --> 02:19:53,880
But then also have all the amenities of people who want to like train and get stronger too.

2352
02:19:53,880 --> 02:19:57,640
Like we're going to have a board room, which funny enough is in like a previous conference

2353
02:19:57,640 --> 02:20:04,120
board room that has like these, you know, chandeliers and you know, like I said, like

2354
02:20:04,120 --> 02:20:10,640
multiple stained glass windows and huge fireplaces and stuff and like put, you know, a kilter

2355
02:20:10,640 --> 02:20:11,640
board in there.

2356
02:20:11,640 --> 02:20:14,880
Like we're building our kilter board, like I was just building it two days ago.

2357
02:20:14,880 --> 02:20:20,560
And then, you know, put all of your like training tools, like there will never be a lack of

2358
02:20:20,560 --> 02:20:25,680
training tools, you know, like whatever hang boards that we want or certain types of edges

2359
02:20:25,680 --> 02:20:30,740
or like tension blocks or weight vests, you know, provide all the things for whatever

2360
02:20:30,740 --> 02:20:35,720
type of climber that you want to be or that you are here, but create an environment that

2361
02:20:35,720 --> 02:20:38,440
you like genuinely want to be around.

2362
02:20:38,440 --> 02:20:42,720
It's not like, well, I got to go to the gym to get strong to go send the project outside.

2363
02:20:42,720 --> 02:20:45,200
It's like, no, actually, like, I kind of like hanging out here.

2364
02:20:45,200 --> 02:20:46,800
Like that's what I want.

2365
02:20:46,800 --> 02:20:52,440
I want people to like have that authentic climbing community and experience.

2366
02:20:52,440 --> 02:20:55,080
So that part's cool.

2367
02:20:55,080 --> 02:20:57,280
And the location is like pretty special too.

2368
02:20:57,280 --> 02:21:05,720
So like in this historic district of this city that, so the city is New Bedford, Massachusetts.

2369
02:21:05,720 --> 02:21:11,120
And at one time was the wealthiest city in the world.

2370
02:21:11,120 --> 02:21:12,680
It was the Golden City.

2371
02:21:12,680 --> 02:21:17,280
They called it, it was the whaling capital, whaling capital of the world.

2372
02:21:17,280 --> 02:21:22,600
So back in the whaling days, it's got all this like super cool history from like whaling

2373
02:21:22,600 --> 02:21:30,320
and like those kind of old times, all still accentuated throughout the downtown area with

2374
02:21:30,320 --> 02:21:34,520
cobblestone streets and like huge old lamp posts and stuff like that.

2375
02:21:34,520 --> 02:21:40,000
So even if you like had a morning session or something like that or an afternoon session,

2376
02:21:40,000 --> 02:21:44,060
you could like go down, go down the street and like walk down to the wharf and like catch

2377
02:21:44,060 --> 02:21:49,400
a ferry to Martha's Vineyard or something like that, or like go get some like food from

2378
02:21:49,400 --> 02:21:53,840
these like really cool, unique restaurants that are nearby and like all these like old

2379
02:21:53,840 --> 02:21:58,040
bars and I don't know, it just like has like a cool vibe that you could like go explore

2380
02:21:58,040 --> 02:22:00,720
and learn a lot too also.

2381
02:22:00,720 --> 02:22:02,760
So those are the quirks, I guess.

2382
02:22:02,760 --> 02:22:04,520
Sounds like a super cool space.

2383
02:22:04,520 --> 02:22:06,840
I'll have to check it out.

2384
02:22:06,840 --> 02:22:13,760
Do you like care about cafes in the gym or like yoga or I don't know what else do people

2385
02:22:13,760 --> 02:22:14,760
look for?

2386
02:22:14,760 --> 02:22:15,960
Yeah, I love all that stuff.

2387
02:22:15,960 --> 02:22:22,040
I'm super into like cafes and bars and stuff in gyms like the more Euro style.

2388
02:22:22,040 --> 02:22:28,840
For better or for worse, I think for better, we do not have that in our gym because literally

2389
02:22:28,840 --> 02:22:34,300
across the street, like right across the street, we have this like long standing cafe that's

2390
02:22:34,300 --> 02:22:35,300
very popular.

2391
02:22:35,300 --> 02:22:41,460
So like, yeah, you like walk across two lanes and you're at the cafe.

2392
02:22:41,460 --> 02:22:45,880
And then for bars and drinks and stuff, like doesn't matter which direction you go in.

2393
02:22:45,880 --> 02:22:51,000
There's like restaurants, foods, bars, depending if you want like a low key kind of divey experience

2394
02:22:51,000 --> 02:22:56,400
or you want to like get bougie and like, you know, whatever, like dress up afterwards,

2395
02:22:56,400 --> 02:22:59,040
like any in the whole range, like truly.

2396
02:22:59,040 --> 02:23:05,400
You want live music, you want DJ, you want quiet, you want like outdoor patio, you want

2397
02:23:05,400 --> 02:23:06,600
upstairs, downstairs, you know what I mean?

2398
02:23:06,600 --> 02:23:10,040
Like there's just so many places you could go.

2399
02:23:10,040 --> 02:23:15,080
So we didn't feel like a need to really force that in our own space and we'd rather use

2400
02:23:15,080 --> 02:23:17,480
that space for more climbing and all that.

2401
02:23:17,480 --> 02:23:19,560
And then as far as like yoga and stuff, same thing.

2402
02:23:19,560 --> 02:23:22,680
There's yoga and bar studio one block away.

2403
02:23:22,680 --> 02:23:24,320
That's like pretty prominent in the area.

2404
02:23:24,320 --> 02:23:29,440
So again, like we don't need to rather like bolster the community and not feel like we

2405
02:23:29,440 --> 02:23:32,400
need to like try to pull and take from those folks.

2406
02:23:32,400 --> 02:23:33,920
Like they've been here for a long time.

2407
02:23:33,920 --> 02:23:34,920
They're doing a good thing.

2408
02:23:34,920 --> 02:23:38,640
I'm not going to step on your toes, you know, like just do your thing.

2409
02:23:38,640 --> 02:23:43,360
And hopefully we could have some like cross pollination, you know, maybe some yogis want

2410
02:23:43,360 --> 02:23:46,200
to start climbing, maybe some climbers want to start some yoga.

2411
02:23:46,200 --> 02:23:48,400
It's all good for me.

2412
02:23:48,400 --> 02:23:49,400
That makes sense.

2413
02:23:49,400 --> 02:23:56,280
I think a lot of times climbing gyms are in locations where it's like an old business

2414
02:23:56,280 --> 02:23:58,640
park or like warehouses.

2415
02:23:58,640 --> 02:24:00,800
So it's nice to have those built in.

2416
02:24:00,800 --> 02:24:03,520
But it sounds like you're in a really prime location.

2417
02:24:03,520 --> 02:24:05,360
Yeah, it's kind of bananas.

2418
02:24:05,360 --> 02:24:12,040
There's for the past like 45 years, the city has been trying to get this train station.

2419
02:24:12,040 --> 02:24:21,840
It's like it would be like the termination for this north to south Boston regional transit.

2420
02:24:21,840 --> 02:24:24,920
So in the Boston area, it's called the T, the MBTA.

2421
02:24:24,920 --> 02:24:29,680
And that does like, you know, if you're in Boston proper or just outside, it'll do all

2422
02:24:29,680 --> 02:24:31,480
the normal train things.

2423
02:24:31,480 --> 02:24:35,360
But there's a regional train that will run like to a point.

2424
02:24:35,360 --> 02:24:38,980
It'll run just so far north and just so far south.

2425
02:24:38,980 --> 02:24:42,500
But then there's like these communities that are just outside of that, that are like for

2426
02:24:42,500 --> 02:24:48,000
years have been like, guys, give us the train because we have the people we have.

2427
02:24:48,000 --> 02:24:51,300
All these people are commuting every day to work anyways to Boston.

2428
02:24:51,300 --> 02:24:55,360
So finally, I don't know what gave but they're expanding, I think the north and the south

2429
02:24:55,360 --> 02:24:56,360
terminus points.

2430
02:24:56,360 --> 02:25:00,520
And so New Bedford, about one mile or maybe not even a mile, quarter of a mile from where

2431
02:25:00,520 --> 02:25:03,560
we're at, will have this stop.

2432
02:25:03,560 --> 02:25:09,200
So now I'm feel very certain that like the whole economic growth for the area is going

2433
02:25:09,200 --> 02:25:12,760
to increase because people will be like, oh, I can live here now and just like hop in the

2434
02:25:12,760 --> 02:25:15,960
train and go work in Boston, or people in Boston and be like, oh, cool, I'm going to

2435
02:25:15,960 --> 02:25:19,840
go hang out down in New Bedford for the weekend and go climbing, you know, like it just opens

2436
02:25:19,840 --> 02:25:22,040
up the possibilities for everybody.

2437
02:25:22,040 --> 02:25:29,000
And just kind of allow folks to more easily access, you know, different parts of the state.

2438
02:25:29,000 --> 02:25:30,000
Sounds cool.

2439
02:25:30,000 --> 02:25:31,000
I can't wait for it to open.

2440
02:25:31,000 --> 02:25:32,000
I'll let people know.

2441
02:25:32,000 --> 02:25:36,160
I don't know anyone who lives in Massachusetts, I think, but if I do, I'll let them know.

2442
02:25:36,160 --> 02:25:37,160
Thanks.

2443
02:25:37,160 --> 02:25:39,840
Yeah, we'll be doing lots of projects and stuff too, like workshops, training camps,

2444
02:25:39,840 --> 02:25:40,840
all that kind of thing.

2445
02:25:40,840 --> 02:25:46,720
So it might even be an opportunity for folks who don't live like super close by to like

2446
02:25:46,720 --> 02:25:51,400
maybe make an investment to come visit for whatever project that we're working on.

2447
02:25:51,400 --> 02:25:52,400
Oh, definitely.

2448
02:25:52,400 --> 02:25:53,400
Yeah.

2449
02:25:53,400 --> 02:25:54,400
Okay.

2450
02:25:54,400 --> 02:25:59,140
Well, we can start moving into Discord questions from the community.

2451
02:25:59,140 --> 02:26:04,320
I had one that was about the gym, so we'll just get into that one right now.

2452
02:26:04,320 --> 02:26:08,240
What's the difference between setting for World Cups compared to setting comp style

2453
02:26:08,240 --> 02:26:10,160
boulders in a gym?

2454
02:26:10,160 --> 02:26:11,160
Definitely the...

2455
02:26:11,160 --> 02:26:14,960
I mean, other than difficulty, obviously.

2456
02:26:14,960 --> 02:26:15,960
Yeah.

2457
02:26:15,960 --> 02:26:19,560
The field, like the field of play, or not the field of play, but the field, like who

2458
02:26:19,560 --> 02:26:21,360
are we setting for?

2459
02:26:21,360 --> 02:26:25,840
So like it's a broad field versus a narrow field.

2460
02:26:25,840 --> 02:26:31,000
So broad field is like your commercial, even if it's for like a World Cup style climb,

2461
02:26:31,000 --> 02:26:35,520
it needs to be accessible for a greater range of people, for a greater range of body sizes,

2462
02:26:35,520 --> 02:26:38,600
greater range of experience.

2463
02:26:38,600 --> 02:26:42,560
Whereas a World Cup, I'm like, cool, who's in finals?

2464
02:26:42,560 --> 02:26:43,600
All right.

2465
02:26:43,600 --> 02:26:45,600
That's our minimum in terms of height.

2466
02:26:45,600 --> 02:26:48,320
That's our maximum in terms of height and reach.

2467
02:26:48,320 --> 02:26:50,960
Here's where they're like, here's where they excel.

2468
02:26:50,960 --> 02:26:51,960
Here's where they have difficulty.

2469
02:26:51,960 --> 02:26:53,760
Here's previous rounds of performance.

2470
02:26:53,760 --> 02:26:54,760
Oh, they're tired.

2471
02:26:54,760 --> 02:26:56,600
Oh, they're feeling great.

2472
02:26:56,600 --> 02:27:00,760
It's like hyper-calibrated typically at higher levels of climbing, just because we have more

2473
02:27:00,760 --> 02:27:01,760
information.

2474
02:27:01,760 --> 02:27:05,920
There's more quantitative information that we can pull from.

2475
02:27:05,920 --> 02:27:08,440
And it's for this moment in time, right now.

2476
02:27:08,440 --> 02:27:11,280
This is occurring at this moment.

2477
02:27:11,280 --> 02:27:15,520
Whereas you set a World Cup style climb at the gym, you have more things you need to

2478
02:27:15,520 --> 02:27:24,280
just caretake for and typically provide more opportunities for play and experience and

2479
02:27:24,280 --> 02:27:28,280
success within those things.

2480
02:27:28,280 --> 02:27:32,160
So that'd probably be the biggest differential.

2481
02:27:32,160 --> 02:27:36,720
But it's cool because you can still play with those things and represent climbing movements

2482
02:27:36,720 --> 02:27:39,440
and styles that you've seen at high level events as well.

2483
02:27:39,440 --> 02:27:43,240
Do you have to think about safety a bit more, maybe?

2484
02:27:43,240 --> 02:27:44,240
I would say.

2485
02:27:44,240 --> 02:27:45,440
I'd say that's a fair point.

2486
02:27:45,440 --> 02:27:50,080
I mean, I never personally, this is just small potatoes, but I never say safety.

2487
02:27:50,080 --> 02:27:54,520
I always say risk management, just to be like...

2488
02:27:54,520 --> 02:27:59,720
Because no matter what, even if you have a really experienced climber, shit happens.

2489
02:27:59,720 --> 02:28:12,800
But yeah, I think people's own ability to self-manage their risk, I feel like there's

2490
02:28:12,800 --> 02:28:14,360
probably a phrase for it.

2491
02:28:14,360 --> 02:28:17,520
And I think there is, and I just can't think of it.

2492
02:28:17,520 --> 02:28:23,360
But if you're a high-performing athlete, we can ask a lot of you and you can self-assess

2493
02:28:23,360 --> 02:28:24,360
your risk.

2494
02:28:24,360 --> 02:28:29,800
And then if something goes wrong, you're likely to know how to deal with it in time and space.

2495
02:28:29,800 --> 02:28:33,440
So it's actually less risky, quote, quote.

2496
02:28:33,440 --> 02:28:35,040
You know what I mean?

2497
02:28:35,040 --> 02:28:43,960
But if you put a similar version of a thing on the wall for a less experienced climber,

2498
02:28:43,960 --> 02:28:50,440
they're almost like, depending on where they're at and who they are, they might self-assess

2499
02:28:50,440 --> 02:28:55,160
themselves to be greater at the thing than they actually are, but not have the requisite

2500
02:28:55,160 --> 02:29:01,160
skills to get themselves out of jail, so to speak, if they fuck up.

2501
02:29:01,160 --> 02:29:04,280
And so they're actually way more prone to risk because they're like, oh, this isn't

2502
02:29:04,280 --> 02:29:05,280
so bad.

2503
02:29:05,280 --> 02:29:06,280
Hold my beer, watch this.

2504
02:29:06,280 --> 02:29:11,360
And then they're going way over their head, unknowingly so, and then are more likely to

2505
02:29:11,360 --> 02:29:13,760
get injured and have the severity be higher.

2506
02:29:13,760 --> 02:29:16,080
That's just my feeling on it.

2507
02:29:16,080 --> 02:29:20,120
So yeah, you have to calibrate that quite a bit to make sure that you're doing your

2508
02:29:20,120 --> 02:29:25,840
best to not, I don't know, you don't want to see people get hurt no matter the instance,

2509
02:29:25,840 --> 02:29:27,720
but you have to be more careful in the commercial environment.

2510
02:29:27,720 --> 02:29:28,720
For nothing else, there's more people.

2511
02:29:28,720 --> 02:29:30,280
There's more people climbing on it.

2512
02:29:30,280 --> 02:29:31,280
True.

2513
02:29:31,280 --> 02:29:32,280
Yeah.

2514
02:29:32,280 --> 02:29:33,280
Yeah, that makes it hard as well.

2515
02:29:33,280 --> 02:29:37,240
But yeah, I guess that's more of a body awareness kind of thing, maybe.

2516
02:29:37,240 --> 02:29:38,240
Yeah.

2517
02:29:38,240 --> 02:29:39,240
Yeah, I think so.

2518
02:29:39,240 --> 02:29:40,240
Next one.

2519
02:29:40,240 --> 02:29:46,760
What's your favorite round, I guess probably in World Cups, gender and qualities versus

2520
02:29:46,760 --> 02:29:49,160
semis versus finals?

2521
02:29:49,160 --> 02:29:53,200
What's your favorite round of those to set for and why?

2522
02:29:53,200 --> 02:30:05,680
I think, I mean, maybe this is expected, but I think finals for any gender though.

2523
02:30:05,680 --> 02:30:09,880
I don't have a preference on setting for male or female.

2524
02:30:09,880 --> 02:30:11,840
They're both super fun.

2525
02:30:11,840 --> 02:30:14,980
I don't know.

2526
02:30:14,980 --> 02:30:22,160
Each group can do an incredible amount of fantastic moves and crazy things.

2527
02:30:22,160 --> 02:30:26,680
Some of the boulders this year that I had a highest affinity for might have been for

2528
02:30:26,680 --> 02:30:30,400
women's semis, but then others might be men's finals.

2529
02:30:30,400 --> 02:30:36,960
But I think on the whole, I really like finals because it's this moment.

2530
02:30:36,960 --> 02:30:42,480
Everyone's together and everyone's watching and the drinks are flowing, the music's going.

2531
02:30:42,480 --> 02:30:45,920
It's this crazy feeling and the atmosphere.

2532
02:30:45,920 --> 02:30:51,920
It's like, all right, it all comes down to this, to these four boulders and the announcer

2533
02:30:51,920 --> 02:30:52,920
and the DJ.

2534
02:30:52,920 --> 02:30:53,920
I don't know.

2535
02:30:53,920 --> 02:30:57,200
It just feels very exciting.

2536
02:30:57,200 --> 02:31:01,400
When you're setting, you're kind of like, it's always hard.

2537
02:31:01,400 --> 02:31:04,040
You forget during the setting week, you're like, oh wait, this is going to happen in

2538
02:31:04,040 --> 02:31:05,040
this way.

2539
02:31:05,040 --> 02:31:07,440
You go through it and you're like, holy shit.

2540
02:31:07,440 --> 02:31:08,960
Yeah, that's right.

2541
02:31:08,960 --> 02:31:11,320
That's what this was for.

2542
02:31:11,320 --> 02:31:13,160
I think maybe something like that.

2543
02:31:13,160 --> 02:31:16,960
That's not too obvious of an answer.

2544
02:31:16,960 --> 02:31:23,040
Obviously while you're setting, not all of that is going on.

2545
02:31:23,040 --> 02:31:28,600
I don't know if you feel that energy while you're setting finals boulders versus if it

2546
02:31:28,600 --> 02:31:30,600
all feels the same to you.

2547
02:31:30,600 --> 02:31:33,960
I think that's totally fine.

2548
02:31:33,960 --> 02:31:38,880
What are the top mistakes setters make in commercial setting and how do you avoid these?

2549
02:31:38,880 --> 02:31:46,600
Probably a lot of them are soft skill driven.

2550
02:31:46,600 --> 02:31:52,000
Communication or lack thereof, feedback or lack thereof, understanding how to work with

2551
02:31:52,000 --> 02:31:57,680
your team or lack thereof.

2552
02:31:57,680 --> 02:32:03,760
I think those are some of the biggest because I don't know, regardless of your setting ability,

2553
02:32:03,760 --> 02:32:05,800
I don't know if you've ever set before.

2554
02:32:05,800 --> 02:32:11,360
No, that's not for me.

2555
02:32:11,360 --> 02:32:17,400
Conceptually, I could fly to Southern California or wherever you're at and be like, all right,

2556
02:32:17,400 --> 02:32:19,840
Jenny, here's what we're going to do.

2557
02:32:19,840 --> 02:32:26,960
Here's some bolts, here's how they attach and here's just some pointers so that way

2558
02:32:26,960 --> 02:32:30,080
you can just move forward and you could set a climb.

2559
02:32:30,080 --> 02:32:31,560
Anyone can do it.

2560
02:32:31,560 --> 02:32:34,320
In that regard, it's zero barrier to entry.

2561
02:32:34,320 --> 02:32:38,320
You just have to want to do it, whether or not it's going to be good or bad or whatever.

2562
02:32:38,320 --> 02:32:42,480
If I said, Jenny, set me a ladder to get from bottom to top, at the very least, you could

2563
02:32:42,480 --> 02:32:46,760
pick out the biggest jugs, put them in a horizontal line and those hands would then become feet

2564
02:32:46,760 --> 02:32:50,120
and then you'd get to the top of the wall.

2565
02:32:50,120 --> 02:32:52,860
When it comes to that, there's no mistakes.

2566
02:32:52,860 --> 02:32:57,080
It's just your choices of how to attach things to the wall.

2567
02:32:57,080 --> 02:33:01,720
inevitably there's such a diverse group of people who are climbing on your climbs that

2568
02:33:01,720 --> 02:33:06,520
inevitably there's going to be some people who like or dislike or love or hate or whatever

2569
02:33:06,520 --> 02:33:09,400
about your climbs.

2570
02:33:09,400 --> 02:33:13,040
What really matters is how are you working with your team?

2571
02:33:13,040 --> 02:33:14,600
How are you working with your company?

2572
02:33:14,600 --> 02:33:16,920
Are you showing up on time?

2573
02:33:16,920 --> 02:33:17,920
You know what I mean?

2574
02:33:17,920 --> 02:33:23,740
Are you being lazy or are you always the person who's rushing around to help others?

2575
02:33:23,740 --> 02:33:28,680
Those are massive wins or losses depending on what you're doing.

2576
02:33:28,680 --> 02:33:33,480
If you're always that person who's willing to lend a hand and provide good feedback,

2577
02:33:33,480 --> 02:33:40,300
even when the feedback isn't good and it's constructive, are you able to provide that

2578
02:33:40,300 --> 02:33:44,000
feedback constructively in a way that the other person receives it well?

2579
02:33:44,000 --> 02:33:46,840
Because different people receive feedback differently.

2580
02:33:46,840 --> 02:33:49,900
That's a fact of life.

2581
02:33:49,900 --> 02:33:53,240
Can you calibrate for that?

2582
02:33:53,240 --> 02:33:55,840
That's massive.

2583
02:33:55,840 --> 02:33:58,640
Then having the longevity.

2584
02:33:58,640 --> 02:34:02,520
Knowing when to turn it on, when to turn it off, knowing your own body, knowing your own

2585
02:34:02,520 --> 02:34:07,960
mind, being able to do it day in and day out.

2586
02:34:07,960 --> 02:34:11,560
It's not just setting for a day.

2587
02:34:11,560 --> 02:34:13,640
If it's commercially, it's setting for a life.

2588
02:34:13,640 --> 02:34:15,400
It's setting for a salary.

2589
02:34:15,400 --> 02:34:21,480
It's setting for your family because you're providing and you're getting compensated

2590
02:34:21,480 --> 02:34:22,480
in some way.

2591
02:34:22,480 --> 02:34:28,880
You need to make sure that you have this ability to continue if that is your goal.

2592
02:34:28,880 --> 02:34:30,600
I think managing that is quite important.

2593
02:34:30,600 --> 02:34:31,600
Yeah.

2594
02:34:31,600 --> 02:34:36,840
I did a setting clinic once, just like an intro, just to try it out.

2595
02:34:36,840 --> 02:34:37,840
Yeah.

2596
02:34:37,840 --> 02:34:39,600
Definitely it was not for me.

2597
02:34:39,600 --> 02:34:44,280
I put something up, hated it.

2598
02:34:44,280 --> 02:34:47,880
I think Flannery was leading that clinic.

2599
02:34:47,880 --> 02:34:48,880
Oh, nice.

2600
02:34:48,880 --> 02:34:49,880
I love Flann.

2601
02:34:49,880 --> 02:34:53,360
Flann and I get to talk quite a lot, we're both on the root setting committee.

2602
02:34:53,360 --> 02:34:58,080
We chat quite a bit on different projects and trying to get them to come up with me

2603
02:34:58,080 --> 02:35:03,760
to Montreal in the next couple of months and do a big clinic up there.

2604
02:35:03,760 --> 02:35:05,280
Flann's awesome, 10 out of 10.

2605
02:35:05,280 --> 02:35:08,840
Really good clinic, but yeah, I just couldn't do it.

2606
02:35:08,840 --> 02:35:15,040
I was talking to them about the climb and I was about to cry.

2607
02:35:15,040 --> 02:35:16,840
I was so bad.

2608
02:35:16,840 --> 02:35:18,640
I was so upset.

2609
02:35:18,640 --> 02:35:26,080
Then at the end, they were asking, does everyone want to try setting again or have interest

2610
02:35:26,080 --> 02:35:29,520
in it and everyone raised their hand except for me.

2611
02:35:29,520 --> 02:35:33,480
I was like, I can't, it's too much.

2612
02:35:33,480 --> 02:35:34,480
It's a lot.

2613
02:35:34,480 --> 02:35:35,480
It's a lot.

2614
02:35:35,480 --> 02:35:38,960
You're always putting your heart on your sleeve, but you're putting your heart on a sleeve

2615
02:35:38,960 --> 02:35:44,240
in a way that's kinesthetic that everyone is grabbing, whether or not you want them

2616
02:35:44,240 --> 02:35:45,240
to.

2617
02:35:45,240 --> 02:35:54,240
You have to show it and everyone gets to touch it and beat on it and love it and hate it.

2618
02:35:54,240 --> 02:35:58,200
If nothing else, it can be an emotionally demanding profession for sure.

2619
02:35:58,200 --> 02:36:00,880
Yeah, emotionally, physically, it was everything.

2620
02:36:00,880 --> 02:36:09,280
It was also just like, I'm still trying to get stronger and it was so physically exhausting

2621
02:36:09,280 --> 02:36:13,480
that it just wouldn't let me climb after.

2622
02:36:13,480 --> 02:36:16,320
Yeah, that's a super fair point.

2623
02:36:16,320 --> 02:36:18,480
A lot of people forget that aspect of it.

2624
02:36:18,480 --> 02:36:21,600
It's like, oh, why didn't this setter just do that?

2625
02:36:21,600 --> 02:36:26,520
That setter probably made that tweak at the seventh hour of the day out of eight and it's

2626
02:36:26,520 --> 02:36:29,880
a Thursday and they've been here since Monday.

2627
02:36:29,880 --> 02:36:34,840
Maybe they were just exhausted and they just didn't see it because they're so tired.

2628
02:36:34,840 --> 02:36:40,400
It's like that personification of the products that were...

2629
02:36:40,400 --> 02:36:44,960
It's a balance because on one hand, if you're a member of a climbing gym, you're like, I

2630
02:36:44,960 --> 02:36:48,920
don't care your excuse, give me the product that I pay for because that's fair because

2631
02:36:48,920 --> 02:36:52,000
you're paying a premium, especially where you're at.

2632
02:36:52,000 --> 02:36:57,040
If you're in California, there's a lot of gyms that you can vote for with your money.

2633
02:36:57,040 --> 02:37:00,640
You want the highest caliber of the thing, but then the other side of it is, well, it's

2634
02:37:00,640 --> 02:37:07,240
people creating this thing for you to experience.

2635
02:37:07,240 --> 02:37:12,080
Just having a little bit of a understanding of that can go quite a long way too.

2636
02:37:12,080 --> 02:37:14,040
It's just constant back and forth.

2637
02:37:14,040 --> 02:37:15,880
Yeah, there's a lot to it.

2638
02:37:15,880 --> 02:37:19,840
But yeah, back to the questions.

2639
02:37:19,840 --> 02:37:23,700
This was from a previous guest, a Paraclimber.

2640
02:37:23,700 --> 02:37:27,200
Will there be any facilities in your gym for the Paraclimbing community?

2641
02:37:27,200 --> 02:37:32,560
That's a great question and I'll be honest.

2642
02:37:32,560 --> 02:37:35,640
This is the minimum, of course.

2643
02:37:35,640 --> 02:37:39,560
It's going to be ADA compliant because it has to be.

2644
02:37:39,560 --> 02:37:42,320
So I'm not going to be like, oh yeah, look at us.

2645
02:37:42,320 --> 02:37:46,760
But I don't know really much about Paraclimbing.

2646
02:37:46,760 --> 02:37:48,600
I'll be the first to say that.

2647
02:37:48,600 --> 02:37:55,920
But thankfully, some of my closest friends either have been, are, or will be chiefs for

2648
02:37:55,920 --> 02:38:00,200
Paranationals and also run a lot of Para events.

2649
02:38:00,200 --> 02:38:06,440
So that's a great, really great question that frankly I haven't thought about throughout

2650
02:38:06,440 --> 02:38:07,440
this process.

2651
02:38:07,440 --> 02:38:12,840
Right now I've kind of been thinking about a lot of the wall design and stuff like that.

2652
02:38:12,840 --> 02:38:14,240
I haven't thought about the other stuff.

2653
02:38:14,240 --> 02:38:20,000
But that's a really, really good question that now I'm going to probably make some phone

2654
02:38:20,000 --> 02:38:25,280
calls after this or some text messages and be like, hey, what can we do to make this

2655
02:38:25,280 --> 02:38:27,400
more accessible?

2656
02:38:27,400 --> 02:38:31,280
Some cool things, we have elevators throughout all of the facility.

2657
02:38:31,280 --> 02:38:32,280
So that's cool.

2658
02:38:32,280 --> 02:38:37,000
No matter if you want to go train upstairs, you want to train downstairs.

2659
02:38:37,000 --> 02:38:42,960
But as far as specific setting for Para athletes, I honestly just frankly hadn't considered

2660
02:38:42,960 --> 02:38:45,320
that.

2661
02:38:45,320 --> 02:38:50,620
Especially up here, I haven't noticed any advocacy for it.

2662
02:38:50,620 --> 02:38:55,520
But now that's actually probably a, I mean it's got to be a massive community up here

2663
02:38:55,520 --> 02:38:56,520
that's underserved.

2664
02:38:56,520 --> 02:39:00,240
That would just extend to reason.

2665
02:39:00,240 --> 02:39:04,360
So whoever that climber is, thank you for that.

2666
02:39:04,360 --> 02:39:06,400
Now you got my wheels turning.

2667
02:39:06,400 --> 02:39:10,640
So I don't know what we don't know yet, but I do know that we will absolutely, like I

2668
02:39:10,640 --> 02:39:13,160
tell you we're going to put our best foot forward with that.

2669
02:39:13,160 --> 02:39:18,000
So it's like Aaron Davis and Noel Heckel and Miles West, Kenny Benson, like all these folks

2670
02:39:18,000 --> 02:39:27,200
are and woman Mia DePolis, like they're all nationals, para nationals setters and stuff

2671
02:39:27,200 --> 02:39:28,400
like that.

2672
02:39:28,400 --> 02:39:32,800
And then also have some typically some personal connection to the para world, whether that's

2673
02:39:32,800 --> 02:39:35,600
family members or friends or something like that.

2674
02:39:35,600 --> 02:39:39,280
So I'm going to get some advice on that.

2675
02:39:39,280 --> 02:39:41,400
Yeah, that was Anita Agarwal.

2676
02:39:41,400 --> 02:39:45,920
But yeah, maybe you'll see if there's a community up there or maybe you'll start the community

2677
02:39:45,920 --> 02:39:46,920
up there.

2678
02:39:46,920 --> 02:39:48,200
That's an awesome idea.

2679
02:39:48,200 --> 02:39:49,200
Awesome.

2680
02:39:49,200 --> 02:39:50,200
Okay.

2681
02:39:50,200 --> 02:39:51,200
Two more.

2682
02:39:51,200 --> 02:39:57,160
So which athlete is the hardest to set for or type of climbers hardest to set for?

2683
02:39:57,160 --> 02:40:01,360
They said I'm assuming Yanya is somewhere at the top of that list.

2684
02:40:01,360 --> 02:40:05,800
I feel like Yanya is easy to set for because she's just going to do it.

2685
02:40:05,800 --> 02:40:06,800
You know what I mean?

2686
02:40:06,800 --> 02:40:12,520
Like I'm not like easy to set for that's maybe like a misnomer, but like you never

2687
02:40:12,520 --> 02:40:17,880
like you never really like worried if whether or not like if we're like ever worried, like

2688
02:40:17,880 --> 02:40:20,640
I don't know if someone's going to do that boulder and if Yanya is competing, we're like,

2689
02:40:20,640 --> 02:40:23,480
well, yeah, and it's just going to do it.

2690
02:40:23,480 --> 02:40:27,000
I don't know hardest athlete to set for.

2691
02:40:27,000 --> 02:40:33,120
I think it's just probably mostly when you get some of the extremes in terms of body

2692
02:40:33,120 --> 02:40:41,080
size in like finals because there is and I mean, we talked about Innsbruck a little bit.

2693
02:40:41,080 --> 02:40:45,440
There isn't there wasn't any like super I don't think Stasha made finals like Stasha

2694
02:40:45,440 --> 02:40:48,560
is the tallest girl I think or Oceana.

2695
02:40:48,560 --> 02:40:54,480
So if you have like one of them and let's say I in finals, you're like, fuck, that's

2696
02:40:54,480 --> 02:40:59,720
hard because you just like you know, you want to represent all the styles and all the things

2697
02:40:59,720 --> 02:41:04,960
we talked about today and also like what is the experience differential for them on this

2698
02:41:04,960 --> 02:41:10,960
move versus this move versus this zone versus this top and then you again balance in the

2699
02:41:10,960 --> 02:41:11,960
optics of it.

2700
02:41:11,960 --> 02:41:16,000
You balance in their own personal performance.

2701
02:41:16,000 --> 02:41:17,000
It's quite difficult.

2702
02:41:17,000 --> 02:41:19,280
Same thing on the men's side.

2703
02:41:19,280 --> 02:41:24,040
If you have this one's a little bit maybe easier sometimes like if you have Seratu versus

2704
02:41:24,040 --> 02:41:27,400
like Mechi, I always say their names.

2705
02:41:27,400 --> 02:41:28,400
I don't pronounce their names right.

2706
02:41:28,400 --> 02:41:30,280
So I'm sorry, but I need to get better.

2707
02:41:30,280 --> 02:41:36,240
I know there's like some accent there, but the nice thing is, is that like Seratu is

2708
02:41:36,240 --> 02:41:43,160
so fucking strong that like just given any inkling of opportunity, he's going to like

2709
02:41:43,160 --> 02:41:44,400
find a way through it.

2710
02:41:44,400 --> 02:41:49,440
So it almost is like a little bit of a setter get out of jail free to some degree as long

2711
02:41:49,440 --> 02:41:55,840
as it's not like a completely statically static tension demanding position where you like

2712
02:41:55,840 --> 02:42:00,920
the only way to do this move is if you keep all these three points of contact on as long

2713
02:42:00,920 --> 02:42:05,560
as you avoid that then like or you avoid the situation where something like someone's super

2714
02:42:05,560 --> 02:42:09,400
tall like Adam or Mechi can just reach and get his own.

2715
02:42:09,400 --> 02:42:13,120
As long as you avoid those two things, like otherwise you kind of can play a little bit

2716
02:42:13,120 --> 02:42:19,760
more just because like I was saying like Seratu is good at every style.

2717
02:42:19,760 --> 02:42:20,760
He's good at the jumps.

2718
02:42:20,760 --> 02:42:21,760
He's good at the slab.

2719
02:42:21,760 --> 02:42:22,760
He's good at tech.

2720
02:42:22,760 --> 02:42:23,760
He's good at the swings.

2721
02:42:23,760 --> 02:42:24,760
He's like, he's just good.

2722
02:42:24,760 --> 02:42:33,900
Whereas like, you know, Ai is amazing athlete, but she definitely has more of a gradient

2723
02:42:33,900 --> 02:42:35,880
of like style preference.

2724
02:42:35,880 --> 02:42:40,760
Yeah, like her strengths are incredibly strong and her weaknesses are quite weak, but they

2725
02:42:40,760 --> 02:42:45,260
also fall in line a lot of times, I feel like with her size.

2726
02:42:45,260 --> 02:42:51,080
And so it can feel even more challenging at times.

2727
02:42:51,080 --> 02:42:56,240
So yeah, I'd say it has nothing to do with the tallest or the strongest or the weakest.

2728
02:42:56,240 --> 02:43:04,400
It's like when you get them in some sort of order for a finals, that can be where it's

2729
02:43:04,400 --> 02:43:10,120
tricky when there's a massive discrepancy in those things as when it gets, you just

2730
02:43:10,120 --> 02:43:12,560
have to have a much finer tooth comb.

2731
02:43:12,560 --> 02:43:16,060
And even with the finer tooth comb, you're more likely to make a mistake.

2732
02:43:16,060 --> 02:43:21,160
So sounds like someone who's overall good at everything is just the easiest person.

2733
02:43:21,160 --> 02:43:22,160
Don't even have to.

2734
02:43:22,160 --> 02:43:23,160
It's great.

2735
02:43:23,160 --> 02:43:27,400
Yeah, if you're there, the chances are high that the boulders all get done.

2736
02:43:27,400 --> 02:43:30,720
Even if you get if you're like, oh, this boulder felt really hard.

2737
02:43:30,720 --> 02:43:34,640
Like she's just really good, you know, so chances are she's going to do it.

2738
02:43:34,640 --> 02:43:39,780
I guess maybe the asker was wondering if it's hard to set for her because a lot of times

2739
02:43:39,780 --> 02:43:44,440
after when she gets interviewed, she's always like, oh, like, wasn't that interesting or

2740
02:43:44,440 --> 02:43:45,440
it wasn't.

2741
02:43:45,440 --> 02:43:51,080
Yeah, I think she has she handles herself really well in those situations because you

2742
02:43:51,080 --> 02:43:53,840
can see it that she wants to push more and try more.

2743
02:43:53,840 --> 02:43:56,280
You saw her after Burn.

2744
02:43:56,280 --> 02:43:59,880
She flashed every boulder in the World Championship finals.

2745
02:43:59,880 --> 02:44:01,120
Just did so well.

2746
02:44:01,120 --> 02:44:02,320
And everyone else struggled.

2747
02:44:02,320 --> 02:44:03,440
Everyone else was a performance.

2748
02:44:03,440 --> 02:44:04,880
Everyone else it was like a battle.

2749
02:44:04,880 --> 02:44:09,320
And she just all the way.

2750
02:44:09,320 --> 02:44:13,040
And in some ways, you're like, yeah, yeah, you're right.

2751
02:44:13,040 --> 02:44:15,040
I don't know what to do about you.

2752
02:44:15,040 --> 02:44:19,360
You're winning in casual style, time in and time out.

2753
02:44:19,360 --> 02:44:24,280
But it's like not just respectfully, it's not just about you.

2754
02:44:24,280 --> 02:44:28,960
There's five other women in your field just for finals or there's 19 other women in semis

2755
02:44:28,960 --> 02:44:35,040
who also would like a chance to perform and a chance to succeed and showcase their skills.

2756
02:44:35,040 --> 02:44:40,140
And then sometimes, sometimes as we know, there is still a chance for Rania to make

2757
02:44:40,140 --> 02:44:43,080
a mistake and that athlete to perform through.

2758
02:44:43,080 --> 02:44:47,480
So just as much as we're not always setting, you know, for any one specific style, we're

2759
02:44:47,480 --> 02:44:49,280
never setting for one specific climber.

2760
02:44:49,280 --> 02:44:53,160
We just have to like open the doors of possibility for everyone and allow them themselves to

2761
02:44:53,160 --> 02:44:54,160
shine through.

2762
02:44:54,160 --> 02:44:57,160
OK, making it to the last question.

2763
02:44:57,160 --> 02:45:02,020
You kind of touched on this a little, but how much do you think setters are able to

2764
02:45:02,020 --> 02:45:04,540
sway rounds for particular athletes?

2765
02:45:04,540 --> 02:45:10,520
And are there any current safeguards or are the current safeguards enough or is bias setting

2766
02:45:10,520 --> 02:45:14,040
going to be a problem in the next few years?

2767
02:45:14,040 --> 02:45:23,120
I'd say the safeguards are like every setter, like if you're talking about like IFC stuff,

2768
02:45:23,120 --> 02:45:25,400
every setter is coming from a different country or just about.

2769
02:45:25,400 --> 02:45:26,920
Like there's no way.

2770
02:45:26,920 --> 02:45:30,880
Like it's everything is so communal, like, OK, Janice, that's a boulder.

2771
02:45:30,880 --> 02:45:31,880
Great.

2772
02:45:31,880 --> 02:45:36,320
And if let's say Ginny was a terrible human being and just said, I really want so and

2773
02:45:36,320 --> 02:45:40,040
so to win, if she really knew so and so.

2774
02:45:40,040 --> 02:45:47,600
Yeah, like you knew their style and there was some way like I mean, I guess that you

2775
02:45:47,600 --> 02:45:49,120
could try to do that.

2776
02:45:49,120 --> 02:45:52,360
But then but then the small group would come over, because usually come over with like

2777
02:45:52,360 --> 02:45:54,720
another group of like two or three or four people.

2778
02:45:54,720 --> 02:45:57,000
And then we would make give you feedback.

2779
02:45:57,000 --> 02:46:00,160
And you can't just say no, it doesn't work that way.

2780
02:46:00,160 --> 02:46:01,600
You know, you can't just be like, no, fuck you.

2781
02:46:01,600 --> 02:46:04,200
We're not doing that.

2782
02:46:04,200 --> 02:46:05,760
It's so much more collaborative.

2783
02:46:05,760 --> 02:46:08,640
And then the chief has to check mark the boulder.

2784
02:46:08,640 --> 02:46:14,160
And then like it just be so excruciatingly obvious to anyone on the setting team that

2785
02:46:14,160 --> 02:46:19,640
that was the case that like we'd be like, no, like this isn't happening.

2786
02:46:19,640 --> 02:46:20,960
Like it's not I don't know.

2787
02:46:20,960 --> 02:46:25,640
Like to me, it's just like so far away from a possibility.

2788
02:46:25,640 --> 02:46:28,840
But the funny thing is, is that that person who's asking this question is right.

2789
02:46:28,840 --> 02:46:36,720
Like in in theory, there's like really no other world where like people can create this

2790
02:46:36,720 --> 02:46:41,520
field of play that performance is then kind of judged on.

2791
02:46:41,520 --> 02:46:46,080
I mean, maybe you have like skiing like or snowboarding in some instances.

2792
02:46:46,080 --> 02:46:52,880
I mean, if like golf might be the closest thing if golf courses changed.

2793
02:46:52,880 --> 02:46:54,160
But golf courses don't change.

2794
02:46:54,160 --> 02:46:55,160
You know what I mean?

2795
02:46:55,160 --> 02:46:57,200
But like in theory, like someone's creating them, right?

2796
02:46:57,200 --> 02:47:01,040
Like you have a golf course, I don't know what they call them, like a designer, creator.

2797
02:47:01,040 --> 02:47:04,400
And like they're the ones determining how long is the drive going to be?

2798
02:47:04,400 --> 02:47:05,400
How many?

2799
02:47:05,400 --> 02:47:06,520
What's the par supposed to be?

2800
02:47:06,520 --> 02:47:09,120
What is our tree situation looking like in terms of obstacles?

2801
02:47:09,120 --> 02:47:10,120
What about bunkers?

2802
02:47:10,120 --> 02:47:11,120
What about water features?

2803
02:47:11,120 --> 02:47:12,940
What about slope?

2804
02:47:12,940 --> 02:47:16,080
What's the grass depth and thickness?

2805
02:47:16,080 --> 02:47:17,080
You know what I mean?

2806
02:47:17,080 --> 02:47:20,080
Like all these things, like they have this play in a very similar way to that we have

2807
02:47:20,080 --> 02:47:21,080
play.

2808
02:47:21,080 --> 02:47:23,320
But like Pebble Beach is Pebble Beach every year.

2809
02:47:23,320 --> 02:47:25,760
Augusta is Augusta every year.

2810
02:47:25,760 --> 02:47:31,720
So in any case, I guess my point being is the safeguards are like built in due to the

2811
02:47:31,720 --> 02:47:32,720
diversity of the team.

2812
02:47:32,720 --> 02:47:37,600
I think you could run into the risk of like, let's say you had an entirely fill in the

2813
02:47:37,600 --> 02:47:40,160
blank country team, maybe.

2814
02:47:40,160 --> 02:47:45,460
But even then, I don't think anyone, like no one athlete is going to be worth someone's

2815
02:47:45,460 --> 02:47:47,620
entire career.

2816
02:47:47,620 --> 02:47:50,880
You know, like I'm never, I would never do that because I've spent nearly 20 years of

2817
02:47:50,880 --> 02:47:54,660
my life trying to create a career for myself.

2818
02:47:54,660 --> 02:47:58,160
Like I don't like, I want to see everyone succeed.

2819
02:47:58,160 --> 02:48:01,560
I want people to win and fight, but I'm not going to like, I don't know.

2820
02:48:01,560 --> 02:48:03,120
It just to me seems crazy.

2821
02:48:03,120 --> 02:48:08,080
So the first part of the question though was...

2822
02:48:08,080 --> 02:48:11,760
How much do you think setters are able to sway around particular athletes?

2823
02:48:11,760 --> 02:48:16,320
I mean, I think if, if I think anything's possible to the same points that I was just

2824
02:48:16,320 --> 02:48:24,200
kind of making is that like you could, it would have to really be a situation where

2825
02:48:24,200 --> 02:48:30,040
climber a climber was a hyper specific stylistic climber.

2826
02:48:30,040 --> 02:48:34,360
You know what I mean, like their strengths were so far and outside of other people's

2827
02:48:34,360 --> 02:48:36,000
strengths.

2828
02:48:36,000 --> 02:48:37,000
You know what I mean?

2829
02:48:37,000 --> 02:48:40,600
And they're like to where you could even create this possibility.

2830
02:48:40,600 --> 02:48:42,120
I'm just talking about theory here.

2831
02:48:42,120 --> 02:48:49,160
Like if someone was just so far above and above and beyond at jumps compared to the

2832
02:48:49,160 --> 02:48:54,160
rest of their field, and then you made it so that everything was just the same style

2833
02:48:54,160 --> 02:48:57,600
of jump, then maybe.

2834
02:48:57,600 --> 02:49:01,480
But again, like, but then honestly at this level, the jury president would come over

2835
02:49:01,480 --> 02:49:06,880
and be like, no, no, we're not doing this.

2836
02:49:06,880 --> 02:49:14,000
Like you're not having three, five arm paddle dinos back to back to back to back.

2837
02:49:14,000 --> 02:49:15,000
You know what I mean?

2838
02:49:15,000 --> 02:49:17,960
Like they just be like, no, like you have two hours reset it and get it.

2839
02:49:17,960 --> 02:49:19,560
Like that happened in Salt Lake.

2840
02:49:19,560 --> 02:49:23,680
Not this version, but they like canceled the boulder in Salt Lake this year.

2841
02:49:23,680 --> 02:49:28,680
Just three coaches, I think it was like three federations were like, no, we don't like that.

2842
02:49:28,680 --> 02:49:31,680
And then the jury president was like, no, that's unsafe.

2843
02:49:31,680 --> 02:49:32,680
So then they had to reset the boulder.

2844
02:49:32,680 --> 02:49:34,040
So you know what I mean?

2845
02:49:34,040 --> 02:49:35,840
So like, they'll do it.

2846
02:49:35,840 --> 02:49:41,720
So I just, I don't know, like it's, it's the probably closest of possibility and the least

2847
02:49:41,720 --> 02:49:42,720
likely to happen.

2848
02:49:42,720 --> 02:49:43,720
If that makes sense.

2849
02:49:43,720 --> 02:49:49,880
I think like the main one that people think of is like, like French climbers are supremely

2850
02:49:49,880 --> 02:49:50,880
good at slabs.

2851
02:49:50,880 --> 02:49:54,400
I think that's like the main one that comes from people's mind.

2852
02:49:54,400 --> 02:49:55,400
I think that's a, yeah.

2853
02:49:55,400 --> 02:49:58,960
I mean, then a lot of times people say like, oh, American climbers are just really good

2854
02:49:58,960 --> 02:50:01,200
at like fuggie pinches and steep stuff.

2855
02:50:01,200 --> 02:50:03,680
And it's like maybe historically that was the case.

2856
02:50:03,680 --> 02:50:06,520
And I think there probably are some, still some feelings on that.

2857
02:50:06,520 --> 02:50:09,800
A lot of that, I think a lot of that is driven by commercial climbing.

2858
02:50:09,800 --> 02:50:14,880
Actually, if you look around in gyms around the U S how many slabs do you really see?

2859
02:50:14,880 --> 02:50:22,840
How many like 12 foot, 14 foot long slabs that are four or five, six degree angled slabs?

2860
02:50:22,840 --> 02:50:28,520
Do you see where you are like truly, truly slab climbing?

2861
02:50:28,520 --> 02:50:31,240
Probably not many.

2862
02:50:31,240 --> 02:50:37,640
So it's kind of like, yeah, maybe the French climbers, they train that because they realize,

2863
02:50:37,640 --> 02:50:39,280
yep, we're really good at that.

2864
02:50:39,280 --> 02:50:40,280
They're really bad at that.

2865
02:50:40,280 --> 02:50:44,540
So when a slab comes up, if it's going to come up 25% of the time and around the chances

2866
02:50:44,540 --> 02:50:48,000
are high that I'm going to smash and I need that advantage.

2867
02:50:48,000 --> 02:50:50,880
So naturally the other athletes should be saying the same thing.

2868
02:50:50,880 --> 02:50:55,560
And actually Yoshiyuki this season, I talked with him a couple of times, so I was hanging

2869
02:50:55,560 --> 02:50:57,240
out with him in Tokyo a bit.

2870
02:50:57,240 --> 02:51:01,520
And then we did like a training camp in Nuremberg and you know, just like kind of saw him, we

2871
02:51:01,520 --> 02:51:03,120
were just kind of hanging out a little bit.

2872
02:51:03,120 --> 02:51:07,920
And he was telling me like other athletes in between, in between comps were like going

2873
02:51:07,920 --> 02:51:12,680
to train like whatever you think of, whenever you think of like climbing training, whether

2874
02:51:12,680 --> 02:51:16,280
it's like finger boarding and pull ups and sit ups or whatever, I don't know, whatever

2875
02:51:16,280 --> 02:51:18,080
you think of training.

2876
02:51:18,080 --> 02:51:21,920
He would go to the gym like three to four days a week and just climb slabs for three

2877
02:51:21,920 --> 02:51:22,920
hours a day.

2878
02:51:22,920 --> 02:51:26,440
Because he was like, I'm just not good on slabs.

2879
02:51:26,440 --> 02:51:27,640
I just need to go climb slabs.

2880
02:51:27,640 --> 02:51:30,640
And I'm just like, fuck yeah, dude, that is awesome.

2881
02:51:30,640 --> 02:51:34,820
Like that is exactly what you should be doing, you know, because he and then guess what?

2882
02:51:34,820 --> 02:51:37,480
Some slabs came around and he did a great job.

2883
02:51:37,480 --> 02:51:39,640
He did a really, really, really good job.

2884
02:51:39,640 --> 02:51:44,960
So it's kind of hard in those level of environments where you can really favor athletes too much

2885
02:51:44,960 --> 02:51:52,680
because the field is just so competitive nowadays that yeah, I don't know.

2886
02:51:52,680 --> 02:51:55,480
I don't know how I don't know how it'd be done.

2887
02:51:55,480 --> 02:51:56,480
Sounds good.

2888
02:51:56,480 --> 02:51:59,440
I think that's quite comprehensive.

2889
02:51:59,440 --> 02:52:01,720
And that's all the questions I had.

2890
02:52:01,720 --> 02:52:04,840
Yeah, thank you so much for all the time.

2891
02:52:04,840 --> 02:52:07,400
It was super interesting to get to know all this.

2892
02:52:07,400 --> 02:52:12,320
I know a lot of people were also really excited to hear about it and they had a lot of questions.

2893
02:52:12,320 --> 02:52:16,360
So hopefully this this answer is a lot.

2894
02:52:16,360 --> 02:52:19,360
Anything else you want to shout out or let people know where they can find you?

2895
02:52:19,360 --> 02:52:20,360
Yeah, sure.

2896
02:52:20,360 --> 02:52:25,600
I mean, if anyone ever has any questions and anything about like route setting or climbing

2897
02:52:25,600 --> 02:52:30,800
or consultation stuff, like I said, it's kind of how I make my bread and butter.

2898
02:52:30,800 --> 02:52:36,680
But even if it's just, you know, friendly personal stuff, Instagram, I try to communicate

2899
02:52:36,680 --> 02:52:38,160
people as much as I can through there.

2900
02:52:38,160 --> 02:52:39,160
It's just at see gradsky.

2901
02:52:39,160 --> 02:52:42,040
It's just my first and first initial last name.

2902
02:52:42,040 --> 02:52:45,600
And then my business account is syndicate route setting.

2903
02:52:45,600 --> 02:52:49,120
So I try to be up on both of those as much as possible.

2904
02:52:49,120 --> 02:52:52,360
So you kind of hit one or the other is fine.

2905
02:52:52,360 --> 02:52:56,760
And then the climbing gym that we're opening is called Boulder Union.

2906
02:52:56,760 --> 02:53:01,120
So of course, would love to invite everyone to come visit at some point in time.

2907
02:53:01,120 --> 02:53:05,760
And yeah, if you have any feedback for me or questions or anything, comments, concerns,

2908
02:53:05,760 --> 02:53:08,480
ideas, thoughts, feelings, just give me a shout.

2909
02:53:08,480 --> 02:53:09,480
Open book.

2910
02:53:09,480 --> 02:53:10,480
Awesome.

2911
02:53:10,480 --> 02:53:14,400
I'll leave all those links in the description so people can take a look.

2912
02:53:14,400 --> 02:53:15,400
And yeah, thank you again.

2913
02:53:15,400 --> 02:53:16,400
It was an amazing talk.

2914
02:53:16,400 --> 02:53:17,400
Awesome.

2915
02:53:17,400 --> 02:53:18,400
Thank you so much, Annie.

2916
02:53:18,400 --> 02:53:21,840
Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast.

2917
02:53:21,840 --> 02:53:24,440
Don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed.

2918
02:53:24,440 --> 02:53:27,560
Otherwise you are a super fake climber.

2919
02:53:27,560 --> 02:53:32,240
If you're listening on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you rate it five stars and

2920
02:53:32,240 --> 02:53:37,200
you can continue the discussion on the free competition climbing discord linked in the

2921
02:53:37,200 --> 02:53:38,200
description.

2922
02:53:38,200 --> 02:54:05,200
Thanks again for listening.