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So I compete as a woman, though I don't identify as a woman.

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And I'm faster than like three people, so I won't come last.

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I have many, many bad habits that I'm trying to unlearn.

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Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast.

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I'm your host Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today, Grace Crowley.

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Grace is a speed climber who made Australia's national team after only four years of starting

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climbing and started competing in World Cups at the age of 15.

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Grace is open about being a non-binary athlete, so in this episode we talk about their ballsy

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approach to applying for the national team, their experience being non-binary in competitive

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sports, and we explore different formats of speed competition.

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I've got to apologize in advance for the audio quality.

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I thought I would be able to fix it, but this was the best I could do.

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Hopefully you can still learn from the actual content, and without further ado, enjoy this

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conversation with Grace.

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But alright, how are you doing today?

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I'm doing alright, how are you?

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Alright.

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Are you doing any training today?

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I am.

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I actually just had COVID, so today's gonna be my first day back.

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So we'll see how that goes.

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Okay, are you feeling okay?

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You sound alright.

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Yeah, I was sick for like three or four days, like pretty bad fever and stuff, but then

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like magically on the sixth day, all of a sudden felt completely fine.

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Weird.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Well that's good at least.

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Yeah, I think when I had COVID it was a full 10-day thing for me, so first time.

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I've had it before, I've had it once before, but not for a while.

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Okay, good that you're already back up and running.

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I know some people said that the second time they got it, it was way worse, so I was like

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really scared, but hearing you say that it wasn't too bad is a little less concerning,

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so that's good to know.

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Yeah, I definitely felt worse, but it didn't last any longer.

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It was like three days were worse and then it was pretty much the same.

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Okay, yeah that's good.

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Yeah, glad you got better.

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Yeah, I got lucky.

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Yeah, are you excited to get back to training?

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I am, yeah.

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I think I'll probably take it pretty slow today, but just test it out.

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Yeah, are your muscles feeling good?

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Yeah, they feel much fine.

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I probably won't go for very long, but should be fine.

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Hope it turns out well for you.

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Me too.

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Where are you calling in from?

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Are you still in the US?

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Yeah, I'm in Salt Lake.

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Do they have a full speed route there?

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Yeah, there's two, I felt like they're both at commercial gyms, like the USA training

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centers here, they don't have speed wall there, but then the front has a speed wall and then

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momentum, Mill Creek has a speed wall as well.

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Then the momentum wall is closed off to the public, but world cup climbers get access to

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it.

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So you are on the Australian team, but you grew up in the US, you also sound American.

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So yeah, how did that work out?

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Yeah, I grew up in Montana, my parents and I are from there.

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We moved to Australia in 2017, and that's when I started competing.

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I came up through the Australian competition scene and I made the Australian team, which

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is actually how I got my citizenship.

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I moved back to the US last year because the training for speed climbing is better here.

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What's the training like in Australia?

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Do you not have access to a full wall or is it just busier?

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When I was there, there was one wall and since I've moved, they built another one.

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They're both in Melbourne, which is where I live.

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There was also no timer and there's no coaches.

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So I kind of moved here so I have access to a timer and a coach and train with people.

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It's gotten better since I've moved back in Australia, but still not quite as good.

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So you're just here for, I guess, an unspecified amount of time?

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Yeah, definitely, at least through the Paris Olympics is the plan.

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We'll see where I'm at after that.

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I'll decide where I'm going to live.

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So then why did you guys move to Australia in the first place?

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My mom got a job there.

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She works at a university so we all moved down there.

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So are your parents still down there?

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Yeah, they kind of come back and visit.

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My brother lives in Montana still, he didn't move with us, so they come back in the summer

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sometimes to visit.

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But my mom can get time off work to work remotely or things.

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So most of the time they're in Australia and occasionally they'll come up here and see

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my brother and I.

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Alright, makes sense.

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And so yeah, tell us about how you got your start climbing and competing.

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Yeah, I started climbing when I was in Montana.

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I had a family friend take me to a local bouldering gym that had just opened.

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I started like only a few weeks after they opened and pretty much immediately hooked.

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I think I went once and then probably haven't gone less than twice a week since I started.

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I was immediately in and then they started a youth team and so I joined their youth team

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as soon as it started.

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I was on that for a year or so and then we moved to Melbourne.

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The first thing that we found was a climbing team for me.

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So I joined a bouldering gym there with a youth team.

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And that's how I met a coach that started me in competition.

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So I trained with her.

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She asked me if I wanted to do some competitions, tried them out, hated the first one.

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She made me do another and I loved it.

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And then I did all of them from then on.

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What made you hate it the first time and love it the second time?

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Did you win the second time?

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No.

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Oh, okay.

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The first one I ended up doing was youth nationals.

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And so it was a big competition.

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And I think I came second to last and I had no idea what I was doing.

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Like just kind of threw myself in there and did not enjoy it because I was overwhelmed

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and didn't know what was happening.

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And the second one was a state titles event, which are much smaller and usually only a

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few competitors per category.

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First was like 30 or 40 at nationals.

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And so it's like much smaller and much more manageable, kind of figured out how to do

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it and enjoyed it much more.

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Were they the same like format of competition?

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Yeah.

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The youth competitions usually are run in like a boulder gym format where they give you six

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boulders in like two hours and you just go wild.

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How old were you when you first started climbing?

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I think I was 12.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think I was, I guess just like reading up a little bit.

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I think your progression from starting climbing to competing was pretty fast.

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I guess so after like two years you started competing?

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Yeah.

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And then you joined the Australian team like 2019.

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Yeah, that's pretty fast.

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Yeah.

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So I guess how did that happen?

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I definitely just kind of ended up getting lucky that Australia doesn't really have a

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speed team.

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It was like I started training speed at the end of 2018, I think.

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I sort of got into that because Oshiona McKenzie, who was the Olympian in Tokyo from Australia,

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she was training for the qualify and her mom had invited me to try speed climbing and join

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in on some of her training.

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And I really enjoyed it mostly because of them.

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I think they like made it a lot of fun and it was really fun to train.

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And then I decided to apply for special consideration to be on the speed team that year 2019.

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They didn't have a national, so there was like no competition and I was just applied

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and they accepted my application and my first year of eligibility for World Cup.

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So I ended up just getting to do a few World Cups that year because there was nobody else

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that really was doing it.

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Nice.

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So like special eligibility, I guess just because they don't have like an official process?

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Yeah, I think that year they had held nationals at the end of 2018.

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And so they had opened up like special consideration for more people to be on the team at the beginning

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of the year who didn't qualify through the original national selection event.

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And so I essentially just had to send an email and like make an argument of why I should

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be on the team.

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I guess I thought I was good enough.

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Nice.

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Did you have to like send a video like proving your fastest time or something like that?

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I think I did, but it wasn't very fast.

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I think I remember part of my argument being was I had pulled the speed results from the

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last World Championships and I had like told them like this is my PR and this is what the

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bottom of the field was like and I'm faster than like three people so I won't come last.

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You should put me on the team.

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And they did.

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Well, that's ballsy.

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That's good.

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Yeah, it worked.

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Yeah, nice.

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And now you're on there.

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Yeah.

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Do you remember what the time was?

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I don't know.

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I bet it was somewhere around 14 or 15 seconds.

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I think my first World Cup I ran like a 14 second time.

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So it wasn't fast, but I was there.

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But not last.

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Yeah.

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So you had about three to four years of climbing before you got on the team?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So did you start out as like a boulderer, a rope climber, leap climber?

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Definitely a boulder.

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I started in the bouldering gym and then I pretty much only bouldered until I started

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speed climbing.

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I think I learned to lead climb about the same time I learned to speed climb.

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So I was like only bouldering for two or three years and then started competing in bouldering

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in those national and state events and then started doing all three kind of about the

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same time as I started speed climbing.

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So I was competing in the combined format for a while.

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But not at the World Cup level.

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Right.

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Okay.

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How did the, I guess like boulder competitions, I don't know if you did lead competitions,

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but how did those compare to doing speed competitions?

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I don't think I really had much of a preference for speed or boulder for a long time.

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I really liked competing in both.

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I think it's a different kind of competition, but I enjoyed them both.

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I've never liked lead climbing as much.

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I like competing in lead, but I really don't like training lead climbing.

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Not much for the endurance athletes.

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So it was not my favorite discipline, but I kind of always wanted to do bouldering World

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Cups as well as speed.

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And so I was working towards that for a few years.

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That was like the ultimate goal.

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And then 2021 I did, well, 2020 I made boulder, see there was no competition.

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And then I made it again in 21 and I went to World Championships and I did both disciplines

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there.

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It was my first one, first international event with both.

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And I think when I went there, I was really excited to do both.

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And after when I was debriefing with my coaches, I realized that I had way more fun competing

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in the speed event than I did in the bouldering event.

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I don't really know why.

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I just, I think it was probably like the combination of the isolation and it's drawn out so long

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when you're a low rank climber in an international field.

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You're in isolation for hours and it's just a lot less fun.

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How does the isolation work there?

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I'm actually not super familiar with how it works for like qualifications.

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Yeah.

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I'll always say like everybody goes into ISO and you get a running order the night before.

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And generally if you don't have a ranking or if you're low ranked, you're quite far

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down in the running order.

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And so the five minutes on, five minutes off, you end up being in there for three, four

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hours if you're down low.

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So you're pretty much just sitting around for three hours waiting in this room.

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It's the warm up space, usually a big room in there for walls and no phones of course

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for isolation.

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So you're just kind of sitting there bored for a few hours and it's time to start your

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warm up.

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And what's the speed, I guess there's not isolation for speed.

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Yeah, there's no isolation.

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I really don't know that much about speed.

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Speed has no isolation and so it's like generally we have the same warm up areas, the bouldering

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or the lead climbing, but they'll usually add more jugs and it's not closed off like

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bouldering and leads.

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So you can leave and come as you like.

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You can have your phone, everything, anything you want.

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Just more relaxed.

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That sounds nice.

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And so based off of that, you decided to just go all in on the speed climbing?

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I continued to do bouldering in 2022.

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At that World Championships in 2021, I ended up qualifying for the world game, which was

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happening in 2022 in both disciplines because I was the only person that went to that World

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Championships from the Oceanic region.

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And so I got the slot and so I kept doing bouldering in 2022 to prepare for the World

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Games and compete there.

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So I did I think three bouldering World Cups in the World Games and then I stopped bouldering

243
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,600
after the World Games.

244
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:36,600
So now it's all speed?

245
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,800
Now it's all speed, yes.

246
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:43,760
And I guess in terms of the mindset you go into when you were competing in both bouldering

247
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:52,480
and speed, is there I guess like a mindset switch that you have to make in terms of like

248
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,560
making mistakes or something like that?

249
00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,920
I don't think it was ever like a conscious switch I had to make because the preparation

250
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:01,920
is so different.

251
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,000
Like on the day, my warm up is completely different for both disciplines.

252
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:12,360
And so you just kind of ease yourself into different preparation for different disciplines.

253
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,120
Kind of it's not a conscious thing.

254
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:20,680
You just one day you're bouldering and you're doing what you do bouldering and then the

255
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,600
next day you're speed climbing and you're doing what you're doing speed climbing.

256
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,160
Okay, yeah, I guess that makes sense.

257
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:31,280
After so much practice, your body just kind of understands what's happening.

258
00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:36,800
So what in your mind makes for a good speed climber?

259
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,080
I mean, obviously the speed is pretty powerful.

260
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,720
A lot of fast switch muscles.

261
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:49,120
I think the most important thing though is the technical aspect to it.

262
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,880
Like it's so precise and so repetitive.

263
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,080
And because it's repetitive, you have to be so precise.

264
00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,640
And so when you're training it, you have to be able to make those little changes and then

265
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:07,200
make them stick so that the muscle memory takes over competition.

266
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:15,400
And so it's like the important thing is learning to do the movement right, even when you aren't

267
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:16,400
thinking about it.

268
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:17,400
So that makes sense.

269
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,600
I think so, yeah.

270
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:27,600
Have you ever sort of caught this like bad habit that you had to unlearn and then totally

271
00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:28,600
missed it?

272
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:33,120
I have many, many bad habits that I'm trying to unlearn.

273
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:39,960
One of them I've been working on lately is at the start, the tamoa skip, the thing that

274
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,360
is skipping cold floor.

275
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:44,640
I looked directly at the wall.

276
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:51,600
There's multiple photos of me midway through the move, just staring at a pool pool.

277
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:57,240
And that kind of ruins your momentum because you're punching yourself forward and then

278
00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,120
you're going in and out of the wall.

279
00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:04,040
Whereas I should be looking up and that creates like your chest is straight, your back is

280
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:08,880
straight and you get a straight line through the movement.

281
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,280
So I'm trying to unlearn that.

282
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:17,000
How do you go about unlearning something that is so ingrained in you?

283
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:22,120
I think mostly you just have to put a lot of conscious thought into doing the right

284
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:23,600
thing.

285
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,760
And you have to think about it over and over and over until you can do it without thinking

286
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:29,760
about it.

287
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,040
Makes sense.

288
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:36,440
Any other ones that you've already overcome?

289
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:42,520
I think there's always more that you can do.

290
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:46,080
So like those bad habits that I'm unlearning.

291
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:53,560
Like I used to look at a foot shift at the top, like look down and now I don't.

292
00:18:53,560 --> 00:19:00,320
And so it's like you look down and then you look at the wall and then you look up and

293
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:05,800
it's kind of you're always learning something new.

294
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:06,800
Yeah.

295
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,600
Are you supposed to be looking at where your feet are going?

296
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,600
Because I'm like, I feel like, okay.

297
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:13,600
Yeah.

298
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,920
When I watch people, they're never, it's always just...

299
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:17,920
Yeah.

300
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:22,200
When you look at your foot, it causes like a pause because you're waiting for that foot

301
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,920
to hit the hold that you're looking at before you move.

302
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,280
And really you want to be like moving and preparing to move before you even hit the

303
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:37,040
hold so that you're exploding off it, like the instant that you touch it instead of waiting

304
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:38,640
for it to hit and then pushing.

305
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:45,080
So you just kind of have to trust that it's going to be there and move before you know

306
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,800
that it's there because it's always there.

307
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,080
It's never going to move.

308
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,240
So you do know that it will be there.

309
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:52,240
Yeah.

310
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,560
That sounds like something that requires a good bit of practice and training.

311
00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,200
So what does training look like for you?

312
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:05,680
I can give you an idea of what I imagine it as, as someone who just has no idea what goes

313
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,280
into speed training.

314
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:16,440
I kind of just think of it as maybe you do some analysis of what other speed climbers

315
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:20,120
do, see what kind of techniques they have down.

316
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:28,800
And then you do sections in isolation or where you're trying to link the big powerful moves.

317
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,760
And then you just like run it a whole bunch of times.

318
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:33,920
I mean, yeah, you pretty much got it down there.

319
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,920
Sounds like you're ready to give theme climbers.

320
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:36,920
I wish.

321
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:43,240
Generally, generally what I do is I find someone that's like doing the band that I want to

322
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,000
do and that's a similar height to me.

323
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,840
I'll just pull like a recording of them in a final or something and you analyze their

324
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:51,840
movements.

325
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:57,480
And then when you're like learning something new, you'll do it in the section and you'll

326
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:02,080
kind of perfect it in the section and then you'll do it on the whole wall.

327
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:07,280
And it feels really different on the section versus the whole wall because you've like

328
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:08,280
different energy levels.

329
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,080
Sometimes you're in a little bit different position and so you kind of have to learn

330
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:19,600
both the section and then relearn it a little bit on the whole wall, especially at the top.

331
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:26,960
So you'll like sections and then you'll pull and then maybe you'll go back to section

332
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:31,880
to kind of relearn it a little bit to a mix of them.

333
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:38,720
What percentage of your training is split between I guess like on the wall training

334
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,080
and then just like physical training?

335
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,600
Kind of depends what time of year it is.

336
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:49,320
Like in the middle of the season, it's mostly on the wall training and then in the off season

337
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:53,400
it ends up being like a 50-50 split almost.

338
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:59,680
Like a lot of weight training, track, there's sprint stuff and climbing as well.

339
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,560
I didn't know that was part of it.

340
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,720
I don't know if I can do that actually.

341
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,080
I do a lot of sprinting.

342
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:08,560
I do hurdle drills sometimes.

343
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,040
It's a lot of fun.

344
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,440
You're not actually doing hurdles like they would in a race, but you're doing like the

345
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,160
drills that they use.

346
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:22,920
It creates like a lot of hopping, a lot of jumping, plyometric drills.

347
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,360
Yeah I guess that makes sense.

348
00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:28,120
Did you have any athletics experience with that kind of stuff before?

349
00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:29,800
No, not really.

350
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:36,620
I pretty much have only been a climber, never been much for team sports or anything.

351
00:22:36,620 --> 00:22:43,840
So then yeah, you mentioned that during the competition season you're mostly doing on

352
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,560
the wall training.

353
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:53,160
I guess you still have a few competitions coming up, so are you doing on the wall training

354
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,720
right now or especially since you just had COVID is there anything you need to build

355
00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:58,720
back up physically?

356
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:03,480
I'm not sure about building back up after having COVID.

357
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,440
We'll find out later today, see how I feel.

358
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:13,560
But I think right now my next competition is until the end of November and so I'm planning

359
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:18,200
on doing like a big strength training block and essentially treating these next few months

360
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:24,200
as like a mini-off season where I do a bunch of strength training and learning new technique

361
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:31,280
and then I'll refine it maybe towards October and build the speed back to mostly on the

362
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:32,280
wall.

363
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,040
Yeah, good luck with that.

364
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:45,120
So personally I've had a really hard time finding gyms with speed walls.

365
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:46,400
I've always wanted to try it.

366
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,360
I mean I know I would be awful at it but I still want to try it.

367
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,120
So yeah, exactly.

368
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:59,040
I need to know like how awful I am so that's why I need to try it.

369
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:06,280
But it's really hard to find I think one because like interest is not as high among climbers

370
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:12,520
and it's also hard to find gyms that have a ceiling high enough for that.

371
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:17,600
I think a lot of gyms are just kind of in like old warehouses and they don't necessarily

372
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,560
think they need like how tall is it?

373
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,880
Yeah, 15 meters.

374
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:28,600
Yeah, so they don't think they need that high of a ceiling for like a random warehouse.

375
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:37,560
So, has it been hard for you to find gyms to train at and what do you recommend for

376
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,200
people to train speed if they don't have access to a speed wall?

377
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,800
If that's like even possible?

378
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:49,080
Definitely possible but train without a speed wall it's much harder but doable.

379
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:57,920
I mean there's a lot of people that train like just to be really strong and really powerful

380
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:03,280
and then they'll do like short trips to a speed wall they don't live near one and like

381
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:08,400
be super strong and super powerful and just learn the technique in like a boot camp style

382
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:15,600
way of you go really hard for like a few days and you learn all the technique and you get

383
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:21,880
really strong and then you do it again whenever you can and you learn all the technique again

384
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:27,760
and you just kind of get faster by getting stronger.

385
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,160
I guess you could study the movement as well.

386
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,560
Definitely possible but it gets much harder.

387
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,200
Yeah, has that worked for people?

388
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,840
Like is there anyone on the World Cup circuit who does that?

389
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:44,720
I'm not entirely sure if there's people that do it like consistently.

390
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:49,960
I have heard of athletes that will take like a month break off speed climbing so that they

391
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,440
can focus on building their strength and so they're not doing any speed climbing and they're

392
00:25:54,440 --> 00:26:00,840
just lifting or strength training and then they come back and get faster because they

393
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:06,760
got stronger but I don't know of anyone that does it consistently.

394
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,440
I guess have you done that in the past?

395
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:15,560
You mentioned that it was a bit hard to get speed access in Australia but yeah in those

396
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,480
moments is that what you did?

397
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:24,840
I've pretty much always trained like at least once a week on the wall and so there was one

398
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:31,480
wall when I was living there and so I would drive 20 minutes to do it once a week and

399
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:40,800
not focus the rest of my training on bouldering but not really as efficient to do it without

400
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:41,800
a wall.

401
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:42,800
Okay, makes sense.

402
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:50,240
I've also seen some places have not the full wall but they like split it and then rotate

403
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:55,640
it or maybe like have it in different sections.

404
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:56,640
How is that?

405
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,120
Is that like pretty good?

406
00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:03,560
I think it's super popular in the US especially to have the 10 meter wall and so that's like

407
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,520
split halfway.

408
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:10,260
A lot of places won't just have the first 10 meters and then ideally you would want

409
00:27:10,260 --> 00:27:18,120
like the next five meters down low as a section and that it works really well for training.

410
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:23,240
You can train techniques really well like that and then you kind of don't get the same

411
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,800
power endurance as you would on a full wall.

412
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:34,440
You have to focus a little bit more on training that intentionally in a different way but

413
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,360
it does work really well to train like that.

414
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:43,360
Yeah, that makes sense actually that yeah I could see the pros in having that.

415
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:51,440
Cool, and do you ever train as like a team in Australia or like train with other teammates?

416
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:56,160
In Australia the national team is world self-funded.

417
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:02,200
The coaches are all volunteers and so they only go to events that Sport Climbing Australia

418
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:10,440
can fund them for so they don't like coach athletes, the day-to-day training, just events

419
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,720
because they all have their own jobs.

420
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:19,440
They usually have people pay them for coaching because they need to make a living.

421
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:24,680
Sport Climbing Australia doesn't have the funding to pay them so they all volunteer

422
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:25,680
their time.

423
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,280
Yeah, we're all pre-sprint out as well.

424
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:37,240
The speed team is pretty small so we're less spread out because there's limited walls but

425
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,520
the bouldering and lead teams kind of spread out throughout the whole country.

426
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:47,320
A lot of people are overseas for most of the season as well so everybody trains on their

427
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:52,760
own or with a few people that are in their city.

428
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:57,520
It's not very cohesive like some of the places like training centers.

429
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,720
Do you know if that's something they're working towards or is it just not even in the cards

430
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:03,720
right now?

431
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:13,280
I have heard various rumors of people trying to build things but I think it's a ways out.

432
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,280
That's always tough.

433
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:22,680
Just based on what you have access to and what the federation is like, it makes a big

434
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:23,680
difference.

435
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:31,120
Yeah, and during our pre-interview you had mentioned that you had also ran into a lot

436
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,320
of difficulties with visa issues in the past.

437
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,320
What happened there?

438
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,680
Yeah, especially COVID times.

439
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:49,120
Melbourne had a pretty strict lockdown for almost two years and the country itself was

440
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:55,080
entirely locked off from the world and so our national borders were shut which means

441
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,560
that nobody could go in or out.

442
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:05,680
So the beginning of 2021 when World Cup started happening again, we couldn't go at all because

443
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,880
we weren't allowed out of the country.

444
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:13,120
Then about midway through the year they changed the rules to allow people to apply for an

445
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,120
exemption until we gave them.

446
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:21,760
So to go to the World Championships in 2021 I had to apply for an exemption from the government

447
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:27,640
to leave the country and I couldn't come back less than three months so I had to be out

448
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,840
of the country for three months.

449
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:38,080
So I applied for visas in Australia because the way the Australian passport is generally

450
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,120
you can't get a visa outside of the country.

451
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:49,400
So I was going to Russia and I applied for two Russian visas while I was there and it

452
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:56,080
was very complicated, complicated visa and I was not aware that you can only hold one

453
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:01,840
Russian visa at a time so I applied for one and then I applied for the second one and

454
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:07,480
they cancelled the first one but didn't tell me and then I left the country, tried to get

455
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:08,480
into Russia.

456
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,000
They told me my visa was cancelled.

457
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:17,040
I went back into, I think I went to Austria and then I went and tried to go back to Moscow

458
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:23,000
for World Championships on the visa that hadn't been cancelled and was successful but I missed

459
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,800
the World Championships because I had messed up that visa.

460
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,720
Okay, that was a lot to follow.

461
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,840
Yeah, it was a whole mess and then of course it was like that was in like the period of

462
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:40,120
one month and I still had two months before I could get back into Australia and I stayed

463
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:46,960
in Europe for a while and then I went to Salt Lake because my European visa was running

464
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:52,760
out and I was stuck in Salt Lake for like six weeks because I couldn't afford a flight.

465
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,960
That was a whole thing.

466
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,680
But okay, but you could go to the US because you still have your citizenship there.

467
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,280
Yeah, that's why I went here.

468
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,080
I didn't need a visa.

469
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:09,000
I didn't have to worry about leaving when my visa ran out like Europe.

470
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:16,280
So you made it to the World Champs but not the Youth ones.

471
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,680
Did you make it to any other World Cups that year then?

472
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:24,280
No, I was supposed to go to Korea right after World Championships but I ended up cancelling

473
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:31,080
that World Cup and so the only event that I could get out of the country for was the

474
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,080
ones in Russia.

475
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,080
Gosh.

476
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,120
Yeah, that is quite a procedure.

477
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,920
Yes, it was a lot of paperwork.

478
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,880
Yeah and that all happened within the span of one month?

479
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,320
Yeah, I think it was like maximum six weeks.

480
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,120
Well, I'm glad that that's not happening anymore.

481
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,640
Yeah, me too.

482
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:57,640
Yeah.

483
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,680
All right, so something else that you mentioned.

484
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,680
So you are non-binary and you are an athlete.

485
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:12,760
How does that sort of affect you being like a high level athlete?

486
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,320
Yeah, I think it's an interesting experience.

487
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:23,960
There's not a lot of professions that really revolve around gender in the same way as competitive

488
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:24,960
sports.

489
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,880
So I compete as a woman, though I don't identify as a woman.

490
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:42,000
So it's always a bit of an interesting experience internally to navigate that and trying to

491
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:49,440
validate my own identity while still competing in the sports that I love and doing the things

492
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,520
that I really want to do.

493
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:58,880
I think it's, ISSC is really great about doing things around inclusivity.

494
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,240
They're certainly trying.

495
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:06,840
I contacted them last year, I think, maybe the beginning of the year, asked them if there

496
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,280
was like a way I could put my pronouns into their system.

497
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:15,440
So if I make a final and I end up on a live stream, the commentators would know and they

498
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,720
could make an effort to not misgender me.

499
00:34:18,720 --> 00:34:25,040
And they were really responsive to that and they changed things for me and put in like

500
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,480
a section in our athlete profile so that everybody could put in my pronouns.

501
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,760
So it's generally been a pretty positive experience.

502
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,240
I think climbing is really great about inclusivity.

503
00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:39,240
Trying really hard, so it's alright.

504
00:34:39,240 --> 00:34:41,560
Yeah, okay, that's great to hear.

505
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:48,440
I hear a lot of, we get a lot of like, IFSC bashing on the internet, so it's nice to hear

506
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,640
a positive experience there.

507
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,320
They occasionally do things, right?

508
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:54,320
Yeah.

509
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:59,280
And this was a question I had as well as a question from Discord.

510
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:07,000
Would you prefer a separate category or like where athletes can choose where they identify

511
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,360
the most?

512
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,280
And how does climbing compare to other sports in that regard?

513
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,960
Or are there any official policies in place?

514
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:22,240
I think right now, like a third category is just not realistic.

515
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:29,960
Like you just wouldn't get enough competitors to host the World Cups in a third category.

516
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,960
Australia runs a third category.

517
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:37,080
They call it inclusive in their state events, most of the states.

518
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:42,880
And so they run a men's and a women's and an inclusive at state level and a lot of the

519
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:43,880
social comps run that.

520
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:51,680
Which is super cool, but you can't really get anywhere past that I think right now because

521
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:58,360
there's just not enough competitors at that level that identify not a man and not a woman.

522
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,160
So third category, not really realistic, I think.

523
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:12,920
But I think there is policies at IFSC about trans athletes and like choosing which category

524
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:13,920
you want to compete in.

525
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,160
And I think from what I know, I haven't fully read them.

526
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:23,080
They're relatively relaxed compared to a bunch of other sports, like trans women being able

527
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,040
to compete in the women's category and trans men in the men's category.

528
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:33,720
So from what I know, not so bad compared to other sports that outright ban them.

529
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:39,120
So I'm very thankful that that's not the direction that they're going.

530
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:40,120
Oh okay.

531
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,440
Yeah, I didn't know they had a policy in place for that.

532
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,440
I think we have it.

533
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:46,440
Okay.

534
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:47,440
Okay, yeah that's good to know.

535
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,440
I guess we haven't, have we seen that happen yet or?

536
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,160
I don't think so.

537
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:54,960
Not as far as I'm aware.

538
00:36:54,960 --> 00:37:00,120
Yeah, I guess we'll see if that happens anytime soon.

539
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:08,240
So do you feel accepted within the climbing community and within like the elite competition

540
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:09,240
level?

541
00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:10,400
Yeah, for sure.

542
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:15,200
I think climbers generally are quite progressive people.

543
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:20,880
Like everyone that I have kind of talked to about it, they've all been super supportive

544
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:26,880
and the people here in Salt Lake and all my friends here and the competitors on the circuit

545
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,520
have all made a really good effort to get my pronouns correct.

546
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,400
Like it doesn't happen all the time and there's people that don't at all.

547
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:43,080
So it's like generally not always happening, but people are making a really conscious effort

548
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,640
and I noticed it and I really appreciate it.

549
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,600
Okay, that's good to hear.

550
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:55,160
Is there anything that you think needs like further change to I guess help you feel more

551
00:37:55,160 --> 00:38:02,680
welcome and accepted or is that more of just like a personal battle within yourself?

552
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:08,440
I think it's a lot of like a personal battle.

553
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:14,680
Just making sure that people know that that's how I identify and that I use they then pronouns

554
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:21,280
and like telling people and correcting people, that's the personal side, but there's also

555
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:26,760
like the societal side of like trans people existence more.

556
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:37,320
It's not always a gender thing, like more societal existence of us, the exposure.

557
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,840
I'm glad that you have had a positive experience.

558
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:48,920
I think definitely not the case in like all sports.

559
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:55,240
So yeah, it's good to hear that we don't have this issue within the climbing community at

560
00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:56,240
least.

561
00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:05,840
But yeah, switching gears to think about the future of World Cups, Olympics, all of that.

562
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:14,200
And I guess also reflecting on the season so far, how have you thought about the season

563
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,600
so far in terms of World Cups for this year?

564
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,800
I have not had a very good season so far.

565
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:29,120
I think that I've had maybe one competition that I was semi okay with my results from

566
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,880
the others, I was like pretty disappointed with.

567
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:39,160
It's been a pretty full on season, like starting in the first World Cup in Seoul, it's pretty

568
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,280
much been like almost back to back for everything through burn.

569
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:49,560
And it's been a lot of high pressure year with people trying to qualify for the Olympics.

570
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:57,240
So I think I've struggled with the pressure to actually perform the way that I can in

571
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:00,600
training, perform that way in competition.

572
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:05,640
So not satisfied this year, but working on it.

573
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:11,920
Is it just like, I guess like the nerves get to you and then you make like mistakes and

574
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:12,920
you're slipping?

575
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,880
Or is it, I don't know what else is it?

576
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,800
Yeah, I think it's mostly been like a psychological nerve issue.

577
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:27,760
I don't really feel like jittery and nervous in that traditional way before competition,

578
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:29,760
but then I kind of get on the wall.

579
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:36,320
It's like I forgot to have a climb and so I make mistakes and I slip and nothing comes

580
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:43,120
together in the way that it should, but not quite been happening the way that I wanted.

581
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:52,160
Does it just like impact your times or have you also, what's it called, when you go before

582
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:53,160
the buzzer goes?

583
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,160
The full start.

584
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:55,160
Yes, that.

585
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:56,160
Yeah, I'm not okay.

586
00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:04,120
I thankfully never fall started in a competition and I'm going to try and keep it that way.

587
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:09,640
I'm sure it will eventually happen, but hopefully not this year.

588
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:14,640
What is, so the next competition you're scheduled for is in November.

589
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:15,640
Yeah.

590
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:21,120
Are you feeling better for that one or still like pretty nervous?

591
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,120
I think I will feel better.

592
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:35,560
I haven't yet there, but I have a plan, I think, to hopefully help things.

593
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:45,480
Kind of work through all of the physical training, kind of over prepare to be prepared to slip

594
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,040
in a competition and then also work through the psychological side.

595
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:55,520
I think I'll see a sports site and work through a mental plan as well.

596
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,480
Okay, that's good.

597
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:04,760
So yeah, just like trying to figure out a way to, I guess, bounce back from having a

598
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,720
season where you're a bit disappointed.

599
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:10,800
Yeah, that's the plan.

600
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,600
And also the Olympics are coming up soon.

601
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:20,040
How are you preparing for that physically and mentally?

602
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,920
Mostly preparing for the qualifications right now.

603
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:31,560
So that competition is in November is the Oceanic Championships, which is my main Olympic

604
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,360
selection event.

605
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,600
So ideally aiming to qualify for the Olympics there.

606
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:47,280
And if not, I will hopefully go to the Olympic qualification series, which is next year.

607
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:53,080
The Oceanic region is very small and so I kind of end up getting lucky on a lot of things.

608
00:42:53,080 --> 00:43:00,160
So if I don't qualify for the Oceanic Championships this year, I will get a spot at the OQS because

609
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,160
they have a continental quota.

610
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:08,520
So I'm the top ranked in the continent on the World Cup series and so I'll get that

611
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:13,640
slot if I don't qualify because I'll get the continental quota.

612
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:14,640
Okay.

613
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:21,400
So it's a lucky backup plan, but I didn't have the plan.

614
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:22,400
Oh, okay.

615
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,720
So then there's like not even anything to be nervous about, is there?

616
00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:32,640
I mean, it's significantly harder to qualify at the OQS than it will be at the Oceanic

617
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,920
Championships because we're a super small continent.

618
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:40,840
It's just Australia and New Zealand aren't the only one on the team from Australia.

619
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:45,120
And so it's like my competition is a few team climbers.

620
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:50,960
They're getting pretty fast, but it's significantly easier than the other continents.

621
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,680
Well, good luck for that.

622
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:54,680
Hopefully you can make it in.

623
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:55,680
That'd be really cool.

624
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:56,680
Yeah.

625
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:57,680
Thank you.

626
00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:58,680
Yeah.

627
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:07,120
How do you think that the Olympics will impact the, I guess, the next World Cup season?

628
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:13,280
I think that it kind of creates a little bit of chaos in the way that they schedule things.

629
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:18,120
So like generally there's the first half of the year's bouldering and the second half

630
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:23,040
of the year's lead and the speed is kind of spread throughout.

631
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:29,240
The Olympics kind of throws that in a loop because they're in the middle and they can't

632
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:34,480
really run events at the same time as the Olympics because the IFFC needs all their

633
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,040
staff at the Olympics.

634
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:42,280
And then in addition to that, having the OQS at the beginning of the year, they also need

635
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:46,440
a bunch of staff there organizing those three events.

636
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:53,200
And so I think it'll mess with the calendar a little bit and create World Cups that are

637
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:58,840
more spread out and weird timing on things.

638
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:03,960
They haven't released the calendar yet, so we don't know for sure, but I'm guessing

639
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:08,560
that it will create a little bit of chaos in athletes' schedules.

640
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:09,560
Yeah.

641
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:19,320
Do you sort of have an idea of what kind of competitions you'll be signing up for with

642
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,320
the Olympics coming up?

643
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:32,840
I guess depending on if I qualify at the Oceanic Championships this year, I'll probably do

644
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:37,680
the first two or three speed lobe cups at the beginning of the year and then train for

645
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:42,680
a few months for the Olympics and then probably take the second half of the year off, not

646
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:43,680
compete as much.

647
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:52,720
And so it'll be like a few events and a relatively big break to train the Olympics and then another

648
00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:53,720
big break.

649
00:45:53,720 --> 00:46:00,520
And if I don't qualify there, I'll have probably a more intense schedule because I'll have

650
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,760
to do the three OQS events.

651
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:11,200
So that would be a pretty big walk of events at the beginning of the year.

652
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:16,160
Probably less time for a break before the Olympics to train.

653
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:20,440
And then the Olympics will probably pretty much be packed for the first six months of

654
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:21,440
the year.

655
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:26,840
Yeah, sounds like a packed schedule.

656
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:38,240
And I guess I would think that as a competitor, you would want maybe a couple of smaller competition

657
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:44,760
events to ramp up for the Olympics just to get you used to that competition mindset again.

658
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,080
Is that not the case?

659
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:51,880
You would prefer to just have a bunch of training and then just go straight into it?

660
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:56,360
I think that's what the World Cups at the beginning of the year will kind of be treated

661
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:57,360
as.

662
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,400
It's like your preparation event.

663
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:05,800
And then you'll kind of refine things in that training block before the Olympics and then

664
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:06,800
compete.

665
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:11,640
And so you kind of you do your off season and you train for a long time and you get

666
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:17,280
there and then you compete and you're kind of testing out that training that you did.

667
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:23,560
And then you're like evaluating how you did at those events, what went wrong and how you

668
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:24,560
can improve.

669
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:30,360
And then you take that smaller block of training and you improve all those things hopefully.

670
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:35,360
And then you compete at the Olympics and do well ideally.

671
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:36,360
Yeah, hopefully.

672
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,360
In a perfect world, yeah.

673
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:40,360
Yeah.

674
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,960
What are your goals for the future?

675
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,000
General goals?

676
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:52,440
General goals, qualifying for the Olympics we've talked about as a goal.

677
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:57,760
I'm not at the point where I could make a final yet, but that is the long term goal

678
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:05,720
is to progress to consistently making finals and then eventually podiums and generally

679
00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:08,720
better results.

680
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:13,040
That's the goals that I have right now.

681
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,520
Like progressing to get fast enough to be able to make those finals.

682
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:25,080
Do you have an estimate in mind of how long that would take?

683
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:29,640
I think it's kind of hard to tell a lot of the time because speed climbing is progressing

684
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:30,640
so fast.

685
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:37,080
And so sure, I could be a six second climber next year, but maybe the final, like six,

686
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:41,080
eight could not make the final and you have to be six, five that year.

687
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:48,080
You're kind of always like chasing this invisible timeline of you never know how fast everyone

688
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,080
else is going to be.

689
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,680
Yeah, that's the stressful part of competition.

690
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:55,680
Yeah.

691
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:56,680
Okay.

692
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,160
I think that is all the questions I had.

693
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:04,840
I do still have a few Discord questions that we'll go into quickly.

694
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:13,440
So the first one, how do they keep up with the development of the sport outside of that

695
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,600
of contingent nations?

696
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:21,600
Do they struggle to find training partners and coaches and how is speed well accessed

697
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:22,600
in Australia?

698
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:29,700
We went over a bit of that, but yeah, anything else you want to cover in terms of it still

699
00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:32,400
being a developing federation?

700
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:41,840
Yeah, I mean, Australia especially, like the Federation is completely unfunded, but it's

701
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:43,320
almost a volunteer run.

702
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:49,280
And so they do their best, but there's only so much you can do and the board all work

703
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:55,880
at nine to five for their own job and do this on the weekend in their own personal time

704
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:56,880
without any payment.

705
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:04,440
Same with the coaches and everything, so it's hard to grow the sport at the same rate as

706
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:10,000
those federations that have funding from the government and sponsorships and things because

707
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,400
we just don't have the money from the people and the time to do it.

708
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:21,040
So they do their best, but there's only so much they can do.

709
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:27,040
And then athletes training, because of that you're kind of on your own because you don't

710
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:28,040
get any funding.

711
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:35,360
So I work in the off season usually and I'm saved as much as I can and my parents support

712
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,360
me and so all the athletes are self-funded.

713
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,160
If you can get sponsorship, that's how you fund yourself.

714
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:43,160
Let's work.

715
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:48,240
We're a little bit behind some of those other countries that fund their athletes.

716
00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:52,640
It's a little harder.

717
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:57,160
Do you think government funding might be the best way forward?

718
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:04,520
Yeah, I think a lot of the federations use government funding, especially with the Olympics.

719
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:09,760
The governments generally don't give out money to non-Olympic sports.

720
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:16,960
So the Olympics, climbing the Olympics, really I think helps push the sport forward and get

721
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,880
everyone a little bit more funding and a little bit more professionalization.

722
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,720
Okay, yeah, we'll have to hope for that.

723
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:28,920
That would be good for everyone.

724
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:34,880
Another question, does the concept of speed bouldering interest you at all?

725
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:40,480
Yeah, I mean they used to run classic speed climbing comps.

726
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,680
So classic speed climbing is like the randomized route.

727
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,720
You just climb it as fast as you can.

728
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:52,120
I think it would be super cool to bring that type of speed climbing back.

729
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:59,840
I love the standardized route, but I think a greater audience would also like to see

730
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:01,680
the classic speed climbing come back.

731
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,520
I think it's got a different appeal to people.

732
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:09,000
More like real climbing, as some people might say.

733
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:15,440
Well, some people wouldn't even say like any sort of competition climbing is real climbing.

734
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:23,280
Yeah, how is like the classic speed climbing, how tall are the walls for that?

735
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:31,200
Well, they didn't have like a standardized anything, so they would like essentially chuck

736
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:35,800
a route up and start a climber.

737
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:40,960
You get what you get, it becomes a competition, I guess, a bit like a bouldering wall or a

738
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:41,960
lead wall.

739
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,600
Yeah, that would be interesting to see.

740
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:52,960
I guess I do wonder if it would have good general appeal, because I feel like non-climbers

741
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:57,280
prefer to watch speed climbing.

742
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,920
So I don't know if they would be interested in watching speed bouldering, actually.

743
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,080
Yeah, I don't know.

744
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:10,560
I feel like there's some competition, like at Edith's Rockstars, that has that kind of

745
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:15,280
speed bouldering component, I don't know if you've ever seen it, but I think it's the

746
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:16,280
final round.

747
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,800
But there's two identical boulders usually, and then there's the button at the top, at

748
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:21,800
the top out.

749
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:30,200
So I think that's kind of like speed bouldering, and there's a competition in Arco every year,

750
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:31,200
I think.

751
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:39,520
I don't remember what it's called, but it's on the big Arco competition wall in Italy,

752
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:44,080
and it's essentially like a timed speed climbing.

753
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:51,040
So they've like hard routes, and you just see people climbing as fast as they can, trying

754
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:57,400
to clip draw those, generally doing weird things, because they're trying to go so fast

755
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:58,760
on a really hard route.

756
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:01,760
So it's an interesting style to watch.

757
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:02,760
Oh, interesting.

758
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,960
I don't think I've seen that one.

759
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,880
I saw videos of one that happens over the water.

760
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:15,360
Yeah, that's a popular style for the deep water, so like the race.

761
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:16,360
Yeah, yeah.

762
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:23,480
Yeah, I think it's a super fun form of climbing, seems interesting, different.

763
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:28,880
Yeah, but I guess there's no room for that in your current training.

764
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:30,880
Not right now, maybe someday.

765
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,360
Yeah, unfortunate.

766
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:36,960
Maybe, yeah, hopefully one day, maybe after the Olympics are done, you can try that.

767
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:41,280
Yeah, yeah, I'll spend six months doing weird speed bouldering competitions.

768
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,480
Yeah, that was really fun.

769
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:50,080
Another question sort of along the similar lines of that, would you ever try to speed

770
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:56,960
climb a sport climb outdoors, for example, like Dan Osmond, but maybe not free soloing?

771
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:03,360
Oh, I don't really have any experience outdoor climbing.

772
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:04,920
Oh, still?

773
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,600
Yeah, I'm not a real climber.

774
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:08,600
Okay.

775
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:14,120
I have like zero outdoor climbing experience, so I think that I would not jump straight

776
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,720
into speed climbing outdoors.

777
00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:22,800
I think I might start with some real climbing and just do it a little slower.

778
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,120
That makes sense.

779
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,800
If you actually haven't done anything outside?

780
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:35,280
I've been bouldering like twice, but I didn't really find anything, I didn't really know

781
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,280
what I was doing.

782
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:39,280
Yeah.

783
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:40,280
Yeah, crazy.

784
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,280
Where did you boulder outside twice?

785
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,280
I've been to the Grand Pians.

786
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:52,040
I went to the Grand Pians bouldering festival in 2018, and I had no idea what I was doing.

787
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:56,320
I showed up and I climbed a rock, so I didn't really know what rock it was.

788
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:57,320
Okay.

789
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:58,320
Yeah.

790
00:55:58,320 --> 00:55:59,320
Where is that?

791
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:00,320
The Grand Pians.

792
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:06,360
It's about four hours outside of Melbourne, the national park in Australia.

793
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:12,560
Is there just not much outside in Australia, or you're just too focused on competition?

794
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:16,520
I think I've mostly just been too focused on competition.

795
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:22,400
That's what I live in felt like right now, and there's top quality boulders, 20 minutes

796
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:26,680
up the canyon, but world class, and I just haven't gone.

797
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:28,280
No, I totally get that.

798
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,360
I haven't gone either, and I live in Vegas.

799
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:32,360
Yeah.

800
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:37,760
Sometimes you just want to go to your nice air-conditioned gym.

801
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,360
For real, yes.

802
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:41,360
Okay.

803
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:47,840
Last one, any opinions on the future development of speed climbing as a sport?

804
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,800
Any different formats that you're interested in?

805
00:56:50,800 --> 00:57:02,720
I read recently that they're actually doing new formats for the next world game.

806
00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:10,480
The only events happening are speed events, and they have a leeway event, and they have

807
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,760
the classic pairing, and I think they have a four-lane race.

808
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:15,760
Whoa.

809
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:16,760
Yeah.

810
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:23,440
So there's new events happening, but I don't know that they will be as common to come by

811
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:29,640
as the classic two-lane race that happens in World Cup.

812
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:30,720
Yeah.

813
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:35,760
Any one of those that you are really interested in trying out?

814
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:42,920
I feel like the reways are really interesting styles because the timing system is a little

815
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:48,320
bit different in the way that only the first person has the sound, and then they go and

816
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:53,120
hit the timer at the top and the light down the bottom changer, and that tells the person

817
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:59,440
that they can then go instead of having more excessive sounds happening.

818
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:01,760
Yeah, that would be...

819
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:04,480
Yeah, it would be interesting to try.

820
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:05,480
Yeah.

821
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:13,080
It's probably not something that's going to become an Olympic sport, but...

822
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,680
Probably not, but it's a cool, fun format.

823
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,000
Yeah, that would be interesting to see.

824
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:27,320
I think I've also heard of people saying that they would change the speed route one day

825
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:29,240
to just something totally different.

826
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:34,200
Is that actually something that's in the talks or just something people like?

827
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:38,520
Yeah, I have heard that they're discussing it.

828
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:42,440
I don't think they're at the point of discussing what they'll change it to.

829
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:46,720
They're at the point of discussing, like, should we change it?

830
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,520
We will change it, and what do we change it to?

831
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:55,960
I think the Athlete's Commission is the one that is in discussions about that.

832
00:58:55,960 --> 00:59:01,400
The IFSC level, I'll probably talk about it for a few years, I reckon.

833
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,440
But I'll decide what to do.

834
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:05,440
Yeah.

835
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:13,560
Is the goal to just change it every few years so it doesn't get, I don't know, stale?

836
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:20,400
Yeah, I think the one I've heard is they would change it and they'd kind of leave it for

837
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,360
a while and everyone would train it.

838
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:24,880
At some point they would change it again.

839
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:35,120
So it's just mixing it up so that you don't end up hitting the fastest possible time,

840
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,320
like humanly possible time.

841
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,800
I mean, nothing wrong with that.

842
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:45,560
They haven't changed the kind of track that people run on.

843
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:46,560
Yeah.

844
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,320
I don't know.

845
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,120
How would you think about it?

846
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:54,160
Is that something you would be excited for or do you want to just keep working on this

847
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:55,160
same one?

848
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:56,160
I don't know.

849
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:03,960
I really like the current route and I feel like I have a long way to go before I hit

850
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:04,960
that perfection.

851
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:10,600
So I think I'd be a little sad to see it go before I really have a chance to reach my

852
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:11,600
potential, I think.

853
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:19,720
But also having a new route, I think, would really clean slate for everyone and you'd

854
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:26,280
end up seeing different people at the top because of the way that the movement changes,

855
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:27,280
I think.

856
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:33,960
But on the other side, I think that if creating a new route puts the smaller countries at

857
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:40,640
a bit of a disadvantage, it took us, Australia, so long to get us people to start with.

858
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:47,560
And then to change it, if they changed the angle or the length of it, it would go everyone

859
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:50,840
else who can't afford to just build a new wall.

860
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:52,640
Yeah, that's true.

861
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:56,200
So it's a tricky decision for them.

862
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,480
Yeah, that makes sense.

863
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:08,600
It might also kind of make, I guess, a difference with how old you are when they change the

864
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:10,640
route, maybe.

865
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:14,920
So that would also be interesting to see how that plays into it.

866
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:20,200
Yeah, imagine if they change the route, a lot of the athletes that are pretty far into

867
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:25,640
their career would end up retiring instead of starting from scratch.

868
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,960
Yeah, that would be interesting.

869
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:33,760
Do you have an idea of maybe an age where you feel like you'd be done?

870
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:35,640
I don't know.

871
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:38,000
I think that it's...

872
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:45,560
Like there's a small one that's, I think, 36 and just came back from a torn bicep injury

873
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:47,040
at the top of the field.

874
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:53,800
So like, really, you can be 15 or you can be 36.

875
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:54,800
You never know.

876
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:56,920
Depends on the person, I guess.

877
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:00,120
Yeah, that is a crazy story.

878
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:01,120
Yeah.

879
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:02,120
Yeah.

880
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:03,120
Okay, awesome.

881
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:07,760
I think that is all the questions I had.

882
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:09,640
Thank you so much for joining me today.

883
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:10,640
Of course.

884
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:15,000
Yeah, is there anything that you want to shout out or let people know where they can find

885
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:16,000
you?

886
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:19,000
You can find me on Instagram.

887
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:22,200
My Instagram is at Grace Crowley.

888
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:25,200
I'm sure you'll tag it.

889
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:26,200
Yeah, it'll be tag.

890
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:27,200
That's the easiest place to find me.

891
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:31,720
I guess the only thing is also, like, the letters are kind of switched.

892
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:33,720
So that really confused me at first.

893
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:38,000
So yeah, it's my last name, but the last two letters are switched.

894
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:39,000
Yeah, okay.

895
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:40,000
Awesome.

896
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:44,640
Yeah, I'll leave that in the links everywhere.

897
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:46,800
But yeah, thank you again.

898
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:48,360
It was amazing to talk to you.

899
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:50,040
Yeah, thanks for having me.

900
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:53,160
Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast.

901
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:57,240
If you're watching on YouTube, I would love to hear your discussion and thoughts in the

902
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:59,000
comments below.

903
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,120
And don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed.

904
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:07,200
If you're listening through a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you rate it five stars and

905
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:13,080
you can continue the discussion through my competition climbing Discord linked in all

906
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:16,120
the descriptions through all the platforms.

907
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:32,920
Thanks again for listening.