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Hello and welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast.

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I'm your host Jinni and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today, Jonathan Sin.

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If you're not familiar with his viral videos lately, he's a quote, normal climber trying

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to break into the World Cups and turn pro.

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In this episode, we'll talk about what it's like climbing in Hong Kong, his insane training

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for national team tryouts, and what separates a really good normal climber from a pro climber.

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It was really interesting digging into this story, which was also very personal for him

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to share.

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So I hope you enjoy this conversation with Jonathan.

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Yes, okay, so we'll just get right into it.

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You only started climbing in 2019 when you were 18 years old.

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And I think you said that you climbed your first outdoor V13 after two and a half years

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of climbing.

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Is that right?

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Oh, I think it was like a V11 actually.

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Yeah, that's still a pretty crazy progression.

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How did you manage that?

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Oh, I mainly climbed a lot and then I was doing like training quite quickly, but I think

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I had like a sports background, so it was quite easy for me to pick up sports.

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Also, Hong Kong's climbing scene isn't massive, so it's quite easy to bump into like all the

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other strongest climbers around and learn from them all the time.

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So you think like learning from just like climbing with stronger climbers helped a lot?

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I also like trained quite a bit as well.

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Like after the first year, I got really into like fingerboarding, like campers and stuff.

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But it was very outdoor specific that year.

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And when you said you have a sports background, what kind of sports did you do before that?

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I like skateboarded for like a lot of years and then I did rugby, badminton, cross country.

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I did like quite a lot of stuff, but then I wasn't any good at any of them.

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I guess I didn't have the same passion I did for climbing.

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And so it was good to have like my attention and something that I really enjoy.

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Yeah. What do you feel like made the difference for you between like climbing versus all the

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other sports that you didn't have the passion for?

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I think I enjoy doing all the other sports, but like when you think about like training,

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I never enjoyed those moments.

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It's always very boring and just exhausting.

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But in climbing, I think I enjoy every single aspect of it.

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Like even the training bit is just as enjoying as the actual climbing.

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And there's just so much to it as well.

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Like there's the outdoor climbing, indoors, even just within outdoor climbing,

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there's so many different styles.

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It just feels like I never get sick of it and there's always something new to learn

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and something new to explore, which is very exciting.

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Yeah. I wouldn't say a lot of people say they like the training part of climbing.

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By training, does that mean to you just like strength training or also do you count like drills and stuff like that?

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I would count like drills and stuff as training as well.

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Like to me, training is when you have an intention for your climbing.

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So even if I'm just going for climbing session, I consider it as training as well, as long as

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the mindset for the day was I'm going to get in there and get better.

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To me, that is training already.

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But of course, there's also like the physical training.

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Like I call it conditioning all the time.

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So I just, if you just do weight or like fingerboarding or other exercises, I'll call that conditioning.

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But no, to me, training is anything climbing related always.

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And so with all your training, did you encounter any injuries while you were going through your progression so quickly?

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I actually did get injured like very early on.

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So around like three months in, my fingers starting swelling up and they were like so painful.

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I think this was like, this is something like most beginners go through.

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They just get into it too quickly.

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I think especially for like most people, even people like coach, like if they have a sports background,

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it's quite easy for the body to adapt to the climate.

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But then the tendons aren't ready yet, even if like the rest of their body are like physically, they're very strong.

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But then tendons just take a longer time to develop.

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And I think I had like that same problem.

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And then, oh, my fingers started hurting so bad.

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I couldn't climb.

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Like I think I got injured around three months.

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Like I suffered on for another three and I was like, it's time to take a break.

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And that took like three months.

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It's time to take a break and I took like a three months break and then go back into it.

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Oh, that's a pretty long break.

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I took a break and like I still climbed, but I was very controlled about my climbing.

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So no crimps at all on the really open-handed climbing and like nothing too powerful.

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And then I was like doing my finger rehab, nod stop.

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Yeah.

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So it wasn't no climbing at all, but it was very controlled climbing.

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Okay.

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But you never, was it like a poly injury or did you, was it just like synobitis?

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I think it's inflammation in the joints.

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It wasn't a fully rupture, anything like that.

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But all the joints were just very painful.

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I couldn't even sleep a lot of times.

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So like I wake up with like tears in my eyes with my joints hurting like a bit too bad.

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Yeah, I was pretty glad.

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Oh my gosh.

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Okay.

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That's pretty extreme.

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I've definitely had like joint pain, but not to the point where I couldn't sleep from it.

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So, huh.

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Yeah.

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I'm not sure what that is.

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So other than that finger pain, injury, swelling, no other injuries?

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No.

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Oh, wow.

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Okay.

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I guess maybe like from your sports background, you kind of knew how to

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manage the other parts of your body so that you didn't get injured.

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I think it's weird to think about it, but I think it's actually a good thing to get injured so early

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on into my climbing just because now that I've gotten injured, I know how to prevent it.

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Or at least I'll find ways to prevent it to the best of my abilities.

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Just because I know what you're missing out when you stop climbing.

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It really sucks when you go into climbing gym while your friends are trying hard and just like

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the other side, no, swing around and jog.

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You can't really do much.

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Can't try hard.

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Yeah.

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So I was a lot more careful whenever I feel like a bit of a tweak on anything.

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And I would just slow it down and everything.

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Okay.

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That's good.

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I think, I mean, I think even a lot of people who have gotten injured before struggle with

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not getting injured again, just because I don't know, excitement of the moment.

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Not something I've dealt with too much, but, and I guess you haven't either.

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So I'll have to ask someone who has gotten injured a bunch.

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So climbing scene in, you're in Hong Kong, right?

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Yep.

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Okay.

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So yeah, what's the climbing scene like there?

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I don't think we hear too much about it.

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I think it's not to, it's not like very represented as a country and like

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the world cups or there's not many videos about it.

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So can you kind of give us an idea of what it's like?

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So it's not the biggest of climbing scenes, but it's definitely a growing sport in Hong Kong.

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There's been over like 15 gyms opening in the past year or two.

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And they're around 30 ish gyms in Hong Kong at the moment.

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And it's awesome.

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Now there aren't too many people climbing.

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I love beginners, but everyone's climbing.

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Beginners, but everyone who's in it are really passionate.

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The other scenes is really good as well.

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There's a lot of boulders, like there are only like a few people who do developing.

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So not too many, but definitely more than enough for most people.

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It's a cool place to do outdoor climbing just because

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if you do sport climbing here, there are cracks or you can have like the city as

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there's got in the background, which is like really cool thing.

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You know, the whole city as the backdrop, you would never get that anywhere else.

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I don't think.

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And it's really close by to the city as well because

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Hong Kong's nature is very immersed into the city, I guess.

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Like there'll be mountains and buildings right next to each other all the time.

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And yeah, it's a great place to climb, I think.

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Yeah, that's pretty cool.

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Is it more bouldering or lead climbing?

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There's a bit of both.

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It's like pretty even split.

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I think personally I've done more bouldering than sport climbing, but I like both.

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You don't, do you have a preference?

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I feel like you show a lot of bouldering, but I'm not sure if that's just because

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it's like easier or because you prefer it.

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I think it was just easier to start doing when I began climbing.

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Experience in Hong Kong doesn't have any lead gyms or anything like that.

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I just thought I wouldn't divert my focus too much.

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I just want to dig into one side of things and get better at it.

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I think at first I was really scared of sport climbing.

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Really like leading and stuff was like quite scary to me, but I put some time into like

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getting more comfortable with it.

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And I actually really enjoy it for the past two years.

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Like I don't do that often, but one day I'll have a great time just having that time to do it.

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Yeah.

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You think you're going to get more into it one day or you're going to stay?

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Yeah, I think so.

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I think so, especially like the outdoor stuff in Hong Kong that I want to do.

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Like whatever I want to do next is probably going to be sport climbing and not bouldering.

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You want to get that city backdrop in your photo.

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I get it.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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So speaking of the climbing scene in Hong Kong, let's get into the story of your dream

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that you shared in your video.

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So yeah, for those who haven't watched the video yet, I'll link it in the description

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or the show notes first.

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So pause it, watch or pause this, watch that video, then come back so you know the full story.

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So can you give a brief overview of what your goal was and what you did to try and accomplish it?

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So my goal was to get on to the national team for Hong Kong and maybe compete for the

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World Championships.

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To train for it, I trained not non-stop, but I used six months to have a really detailed

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training plan, really stuck to it and then try my best to get on to the team at the end

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of the six months, which we had like the national team selection.

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That was the ball event and the league events.

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I did six days of training a week.

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Of course, there were rest days.

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And I had maybe five, five of those six days, I would have like double sessions.

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And it was all like really detailed and planned out.

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It wasn't just going in like, oh, I'll climb as much as I can.

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But everything was like planned out.

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I had an intention for all my sessions.

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I was talking to like some coaching friends who helped me out as well.

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So first of all, you said six days a week.

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And you said that you have rest days, but there are only seven days a week.

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So how do you have rest days?

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So I rested on like the seventh day, which I coach in the gym.

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Some might not consider that as a resting, but yeah, I spend every day in the gym.

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So I was doing like my training as like periods.

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So every like two months, I will have like a month break and, you know, take a

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few more days off just because the periodization of training and stuff.

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But other than that, yeah, it was like once a week, I'll have rest day.

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Yikes.

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Okay.

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Can you explain the periodization of training stuff for people who may not be aware?

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So like for different focuses, I call them.

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Uh, let's say if I have like really intense power phase at first, for me, it lasted

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around eight weeks to 10 weeks.

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I gotta look back to my notes to see what I actually did.

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But, uh, I think for like a training period around 10, 12 weeks or eight weeks,

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it's like, depending on person and what you're training, like the training

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numbers sort of plateaus little, and then it's a good time to switch the stimulus

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and train something else, at least from my research as what works.

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And then it's good to switch things up every now and then, not doing the same

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thing all the time because your body get used to the exercises as well as like

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training load, so you don't gain too much more if you do the same thing.

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And since I've like, I see myself doing a lot of training, I'm not doing

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like, I see myself as someone who has like a lot of weaknesses.

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So I'll be trying different stuff and then training different aspects of my

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climbing.

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And you said that you had some friends who were coaches, but you didn't have

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like a dedicated coach for your program?

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No, so I have some friends who like work as coaches and then I've like

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consultated with them and then I show them my training plan, they give me

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some pointers and stuff, but no, I don't have a dedicated coach because I

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really would like one, but then Hong Kong doesn't have any coaches of that

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sort.

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And on like my part-time in climbing, it was like quite difficult to get the

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kind of coach I want as well because for comp climbing, it's just so specific

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and you got to have like really good knowledge, I think, to excel in comp

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climbing, especially for the level I wanted to get at, I think.

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I know, so I didn't have a coach.

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Well, it is super impressive that you managed to write up your own training

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plan and that it worked out pretty well for you.

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This is okay.

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Well, I guess kind of something I'm personally wondering because this is my

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first time doing like a strength training session and I am so like I've

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never worked out before in my life.

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So this is like so new to me and I did like a workout for the first time and

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00:15:21,860 --> 00:15:27,140
I was so sore and I am still so sore like almost every single time I do it.

234
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And so I have to take like about two or three rest days before I start to feel

235
00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:33,220
not sore again.

236
00:15:33,780 --> 00:15:35,140
Does that not happen to you?

237
00:15:36,340 --> 00:15:40,500
No, I definitely feel sore, but I don't know.

238
00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:41,140
Climb through it.

239
00:15:43,060 --> 00:15:47,300
I climbed through it, but then I think that would waste to prevent getting

240
00:15:47,300 --> 00:15:48,660
completely destroyed every time.

241
00:15:49,220 --> 00:15:54,820
Like, because I don't see my training as like a very short term thing, right?

242
00:15:54,820 --> 00:16:00,260
Because I know if I destroy myself on day one, it will affect my training for the rest.

243
00:16:00,900 --> 00:16:06,980
I'm aiming for the long term when I train or like still when I train or when I climb.

244
00:16:08,420 --> 00:16:11,460
Let's say like an easy example would be like skin, right?

245
00:16:12,100 --> 00:16:16,260
If you go so hard on day one that you're going through your tips and you're

246
00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:21,700
bleeding, that's no way you can try hard again the next few days, at least for

247
00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:22,980
like three, four days for me.

248
00:16:22,980 --> 00:16:24,100
Right.

249
00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:26,100
Unless you tape and stuff and you don't climb as well.

250
00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:28,500
And to me, that's the same with physical training.

251
00:16:29,300 --> 00:16:35,140
If you completely destroy yourself on day one, the rest of your week is all messed up.

252
00:16:35,140 --> 00:16:37,940
So I rather have a lighter session.

253
00:16:38,980 --> 00:16:44,420
Then I can continue training for the next few days and do it consistently.

254
00:16:45,140 --> 00:16:51,380
Because I find consistency is way more important than just having one super

255
00:16:51,380 --> 00:16:57,380
intense session or like even if you talk about like training periods, if I go super

256
00:16:57,380 --> 00:17:02,740
hard for a week and then I gotta, the motivation goes lower because I'm so sore and I'm so

257
00:17:02,740 --> 00:17:06,260
destroyed, there's no point to it if you can't stick to it.

258
00:17:06,980 --> 00:17:15,380
So personally, I'd rather have the consistency than like an insane intensity or at

259
00:17:15,380 --> 00:17:18,740
least like to the level where it's manageable personally.

260
00:17:18,740 --> 00:17:19,300
Yeah.

261
00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:20,900
Yeah.

262
00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:24,900
And I mean, you said that you were going, I mean, you were going almost every day.

263
00:17:27,140 --> 00:17:35,300
Was there a way for you to, I guess, like train different parts of your body so that

264
00:17:35,300 --> 00:17:42,100
you weren't completely destroyed and constantly in like a state of being under recovered?

265
00:17:42,820 --> 00:17:46,420
Well, so just like people who would do like a normal gym session, right?

266
00:17:46,420 --> 00:17:51,940
They'll split their workouts into like, Oh, upper body, push day, back, push day and pull

267
00:17:51,940 --> 00:17:55,780
day, like, and then you do a leg day and then you have rest day core.

268
00:17:56,260 --> 00:18:00,740
Like you can do it in splits like that, but for me, the climbing will slip into different

269
00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:02,660
aspects of climbing.

270
00:18:02,660 --> 00:18:10,580
So let's say I do like a three day split usually, day one will be power and the highest

271
00:18:10,580 --> 00:18:11,540
intensity stuff.

272
00:18:11,540 --> 00:18:18,580
So right after rest day, I'll again see the most high intensity workouts and climbs on

273
00:18:18,580 --> 00:18:19,140
that day.

274
00:18:20,180 --> 00:18:22,420
Uh, day two, I'll focus more on volume.

275
00:18:22,820 --> 00:18:27,380
So I'll climb a lot more at a lower intensity, but working on other skills.

276
00:18:27,380 --> 00:18:27,780
Right?

277
00:18:28,020 --> 00:18:31,060
So day one is a lot about pushing the limit.

278
00:18:31,220 --> 00:18:33,540
Day two is about getting fitter.

279
00:18:33,540 --> 00:18:43,140
And for my day three, I usually do either jumps or volume or I'll do slabs or maybe

280
00:18:43,140 --> 00:18:44,180
some circuits.

281
00:18:44,180 --> 00:18:46,660
So day one is the most intense.

282
00:18:46,660 --> 00:18:53,860
Day two volume, day three is technique work or just some sort of resting for the body,

283
00:18:53,860 --> 00:18:55,700
but you're still learning and technique stuff.

284
00:18:55,860 --> 00:18:56,900
Yeah, that makes sense.

285
00:18:56,900 --> 00:19:03,860
Um, and so, yeah, that's sort of sounds a little bit like your, um, personal training

286
00:19:03,860 --> 00:19:04,500
plan.

287
00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:08,660
Um, I know a lot of people ask about your personal training plan.

288
00:19:08,660 --> 00:19:13,860
Um, but you don't, you mentioned that you don't exactly give that out too much.

289
00:19:13,860 --> 00:19:15,620
Um, do you want to explain that?

290
00:19:15,620 --> 00:19:24,180
Yeah, just because my, like my own training plan, I think is, was very specific to me

291
00:19:24,180 --> 00:19:26,980
and tailor made to my own weaknesses.

292
00:19:26,980 --> 00:19:28,260
So it's very nice.

293
00:19:28,260 --> 00:19:29,540
I love you are interested.

294
00:19:29,540 --> 00:19:30,580
I really appreciate it.

295
00:19:30,580 --> 00:19:33,300
And like, I guess a lot of people want to get better together.

296
00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:34,900
Um, I love it.

297
00:19:34,900 --> 00:19:38,900
I love the excitement people have for their own progression and stuff.

298
00:19:38,900 --> 00:19:42,660
But yeah, I don't really give out my own training plans.

299
00:19:42,660 --> 00:19:48,340
Like I thought about including that in the video, but I only include the major principles

300
00:19:48,340 --> 00:19:48,980
I had.

301
00:19:49,620 --> 00:19:54,100
And I think those alone, if people were to make their own training plans, I think

302
00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:58,660
their own training plans, I would just go according to those principles.

303
00:19:58,660 --> 00:20:06,980
And the details I had don't matter quite as much to me because the plan was made for

304
00:20:06,980 --> 00:20:07,700
my weaknesses.

305
00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:16,820
Hey, cause I have those specific training workouts because I'm, let's say my fingers

306
00:20:16,820 --> 00:20:19,380
are weak for like a lot.

307
00:20:19,380 --> 00:20:23,380
When I do like longer duration hangs, I can have a really high load.

308
00:20:23,380 --> 00:20:30,260
If I do seven second intensity hang rather, but then I have a really quick drop off

309
00:20:30,260 --> 00:20:31,620
after 10 seconds.

310
00:20:31,620 --> 00:20:36,660
So to me, it was more important to train a longer hang rather than a very short intense

311
00:20:36,660 --> 00:20:37,160
one.

312
00:20:37,860 --> 00:20:40,580
Just like small specifics like that.

313
00:20:40,580 --> 00:20:42,340
I don't think it applies to everyone.

314
00:20:42,340 --> 00:20:46,740
And if I don't know the other person's training background or like what level

315
00:20:46,740 --> 00:20:53,060
they are at, as well as their own style, I hesitate to give out anything that might

316
00:20:53,060 --> 00:20:57,620
get them injured or maybe just isn't the most efficient way.

317
00:20:57,620 --> 00:20:58,420
Yeah.

318
00:20:58,420 --> 00:20:59,780
Yeah, that definitely makes sense.

319
00:20:59,780 --> 00:21:05,700
I think it's very, training can be like very personal or not can be.

320
00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:06,740
I think it like should be.

321
00:21:07,380 --> 00:21:10,100
So yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense to me.

322
00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:10,500
Okay.

323
00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:18,500
So going back to the actual competition and your team trials, walk me through the

324
00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:21,540
process of signing up for team selection.

325
00:21:21,540 --> 00:21:24,260
Was it just as simple as signing up for that one?

326
00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:30,660
I guess like trial competition, or do you have to like perform at a certain level at

327
00:21:30,660 --> 00:21:32,420
previous competitions going into it?

328
00:21:32,900 --> 00:21:33,780
What's it like there?

329
00:21:34,660 --> 00:21:38,340
So in Hong Kong, there isn't much of a barrier to entry.

330
00:21:38,660 --> 00:21:41,700
Like if you want to trial for the team, you just have to sign up.

331
00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:48,340
They do require for the boys team, I think they require like you to climb outdoor V7

332
00:21:48,340 --> 00:21:49,860
and 7C, I think.

333
00:21:49,860 --> 00:21:55,140
They make you write it on the paper, but I don't think that means much to be honest.

334
00:21:55,140 --> 00:21:57,460
A lot of people just write it anyways.

335
00:21:57,460 --> 00:21:58,420
Yeah.

336
00:21:58,420 --> 00:22:02,100
Yeah, they start, but then yeah, no, there's no barriers to entry.

337
00:22:02,100 --> 00:22:04,260
You can just sign up and then you can do the comps.

338
00:22:04,260 --> 00:22:04,740
Yeah.

339
00:22:04,740 --> 00:22:10,500
I guess is it maybe they just haven't like developed a super like rigorous program for

340
00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:12,500
it, or is there just not as much interest?

341
00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:14,500
I think that's both.

342
00:22:14,500 --> 00:22:16,740
Like there's definitely quite a bit of interest.

343
00:22:16,740 --> 00:22:18,180
Quite a lot of people tried out.

344
00:22:18,180 --> 00:22:26,820
But then the system, like the sport climbing organization stuff, there just isn't too much

345
00:22:26,820 --> 00:22:27,380
stuff.

346
00:22:27,380 --> 00:22:31,860
Like people who do it are like quite dedicated to help out, but there isn't too much of a

347
00:22:31,860 --> 00:22:33,700
support or anything like that.

348
00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:37,140
So there's a lot of resources and all that.

349
00:22:37,140 --> 00:22:42,020
So yeah, they're just the comp and that's it.

350
00:22:42,020 --> 00:22:46,100
And in your video, you showed a lot of boulder preparation.

351
00:22:46,100 --> 00:22:48,900
You didn't so much show the lead portion of it.

352
00:22:48,900 --> 00:22:52,500
What was your lead training like?

353
00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:56,820
Like how often did you practice lead climbing?

354
00:22:56,820 --> 00:23:00,020
And then was it like a combined score at the end?

355
00:23:00,020 --> 00:23:04,020
So yeah, it was like a combined format.

356
00:23:04,020 --> 00:23:06,740
They add up the points from two comps.

357
00:23:06,740 --> 00:23:11,060
So we have the boulder selection first and then a month later, actually more than a month

358
00:23:11,060 --> 00:23:13,060
later, then we'll have the lead.

359
00:23:13,060 --> 00:23:18,100
So in my training, like I said, I separated my training into different parts before I had

360
00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:19,300
different periods.

361
00:23:19,300 --> 00:23:23,540
So for period one, it was volume based.

362
00:23:23,540 --> 00:23:29,860
It was very much just trying to get fit, do a lot of reps, but then not too intense.

363
00:23:29,860 --> 00:23:36,740
Second period is starting to wrap up the intensity because the end of that is the boulder selections.

364
00:23:36,740 --> 00:23:43,540
For the third period, it's a lot about getting endurance and power endurance.

365
00:23:43,540 --> 00:23:51,620
So I had around six weeks before the lead selection and that's after the boulder selections.

366
00:23:51,620 --> 00:23:54,420
I did around three days of lead a week.

367
00:23:54,420 --> 00:24:00,180
I didn't show that too much in the video just because I thought what I showed was enough

368
00:24:00,180 --> 00:24:07,140
to show how much work I was doing already and I didn't think that was like, in the videos

369
00:24:07,140 --> 00:24:09,940
I had of my lead climbing was just really blurry.

370
00:24:09,940 --> 00:24:14,420
So I didn't include that, but yeah, I did do quite a lot for lead as well.

371
00:24:14,420 --> 00:24:18,820
That's what made it hurt more, I guess, at the end when I couldn't perform.

372
00:24:18,820 --> 00:24:24,420
But no, I trained three days lead a week and then I just saw a really good progression

373
00:24:24,420 --> 00:24:28,340
as well, because as I told you, I'm not really a lead climber.

374
00:24:28,340 --> 00:24:37,700
But I think I was at the lead gym, I was struggling to climb a 7C to start with, maybe even 7B.

375
00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:44,340
And then by the end of the six weeks, I was climbing three in a row and that made quite

376
00:24:44,340 --> 00:24:45,620
a big difference, I think.

377
00:24:45,620 --> 00:24:52,020
So going into it physically for a lead comp, I thought I was very ready.

378
00:24:52,020 --> 00:24:53,060
So yeah.

379
00:24:53,060 --> 00:24:55,540
How did you end up doing in the lead portion?

380
00:24:55,540 --> 00:24:58,500
Uh, horrendous.

381
00:24:58,500 --> 00:25:00,820
Absolutely horrendous.

382
00:25:00,820 --> 00:25:05,060
So for qualification, we had two climbs.

383
00:25:05,060 --> 00:25:07,380
I did okay on one, I guess.

384
00:25:07,380 --> 00:25:10,500
Like I managed to try hard and fail because I was pumped.

385
00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:15,940
But the first one was just the one that hurt the most was the beginning section was just

386
00:25:15,940 --> 00:25:17,300
a jug hole, I think.

387
00:25:17,300 --> 00:25:19,860
It was like very easy climbing.

388
00:25:19,860 --> 00:25:27,460
But then once you get by the headwall, suddenly it gets quite hard.

389
00:25:27,460 --> 00:25:33,300
And I had like a small, I remember like distinctly right before the hard section, which the cold

390
00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:34,660
solid became much worse.

391
00:25:34,660 --> 00:25:38,820
I had like a small break and was like resting, shaking out.

392
00:25:38,820 --> 00:25:45,220
And then the first hold I grabbed, my hand just like let go of something.

393
00:25:45,220 --> 00:25:45,940
I don't know.

394
00:25:45,940 --> 00:25:47,460
I really don't know what happened.

395
00:25:47,460 --> 00:25:49,860
I think my whole body was so soft.

396
00:25:49,860 --> 00:25:53,700
I was like, I just didn't know what happened.

397
00:25:53,700 --> 00:25:59,780
I was just like peeled off, didn't try hard, came down with like no pump at all.

398
00:26:00,580 --> 00:26:01,080
Oh.

399
00:26:02,260 --> 00:26:04,100
Yeah, it was weird.

400
00:26:04,100 --> 00:26:07,220
My body just like gave out like somehow.

401
00:26:08,100 --> 00:26:10,660
Yeah, it was very weird just the moment.

402
00:26:11,220 --> 00:26:12,580
Wasn't like a slip or anything?

403
00:26:13,540 --> 00:26:14,660
No, don't think so.

404
00:26:14,660 --> 00:26:19,220
I think I hit the hole and everything just couldn't engage in the thing.

405
00:26:21,540 --> 00:26:28,500
Yeah, I think I was laughing when I came down just because it was so, I think it was funny

406
00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:29,060
in some sense.

407
00:26:29,060 --> 00:26:32,500
So like I don't know if it's working.

408
00:26:32,500 --> 00:26:33,620
That's what I have to show.

409
00:26:35,620 --> 00:26:37,620
But yeah, I think it was more like a painful laugh.

410
00:26:38,660 --> 00:26:43,380
Yeah, I guess at that point, did you kind of already know that you weren't going to

411
00:26:43,380 --> 00:26:45,460
make it on the team?

412
00:26:45,460 --> 00:26:46,820
Yeah, I think so.

413
00:26:46,820 --> 00:26:51,460
Because I think the score to get into semis was, semis finals was quite high.

414
00:26:53,380 --> 00:26:59,140
So I knew if I messed up the first one, I had to basically top out the other one,

415
00:26:59,140 --> 00:27:00,660
which no one has topped yet, I think.

416
00:27:01,460 --> 00:27:05,780
Or at least I knew it was going to be a lot harder than the easy one.

417
00:27:05,780 --> 00:27:08,820
So I didn't have much hope.

418
00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:11,220
Oh, that's a shame.

419
00:27:11,220 --> 00:27:12,180
Okay.

420
00:27:14,180 --> 00:27:18,180
And you said that the lead competition was a month after the bouldering one?

421
00:27:18,820 --> 00:27:19,300
Yep.

422
00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:21,060
Oh, okay.

423
00:27:21,060 --> 00:27:28,180
Do you think that is kind of not a great way of going about it?

424
00:27:28,180 --> 00:27:34,740
Because at like the World Cups and stuff, it's kind of like one day after the other,

425
00:27:35,460 --> 00:27:35,940
no rest.

426
00:27:35,940 --> 00:27:41,860
No rest. That's not my choice, right? But I think if you consider yourself as an athlete,

427
00:27:41,860 --> 00:27:47,380
or like what I admire most about like the boulders I follow or like the climbers I follow,

428
00:27:47,380 --> 00:27:51,540
is that they can perform at any time, whatever discipline it is.

429
00:27:51,540 --> 00:27:57,940
So if you're given a plan or given the day to perform, you just do it according to that.

430
00:27:57,940 --> 00:28:00,580
It's out of my control when the cop is going to be.

431
00:28:00,580 --> 00:28:05,380
What I can do is prepare for it to the best of my abilities.

432
00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:12,660
And of course, people complain about the date of climbing being so far apart,

433
00:28:12,660 --> 00:28:15,620
two disciplines, all that and all that.

434
00:28:15,620 --> 00:28:20,820
But to me, it's like everyone faces the same circumstances.

435
00:28:20,820 --> 00:28:22,180
You just try your best.

436
00:28:22,180 --> 00:28:29,300
Okay. So actually going into the comp, what does your rest sort of look like

437
00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:30,580
before competition day?

438
00:28:32,660 --> 00:28:38,020
So I actually start tapering around a week and a half, two weeks out.

439
00:28:38,020 --> 00:28:42,740
I start lowering the volume a lot. I'll take out a lot of physical conditioning.

440
00:28:42,740 --> 00:28:48,100
I'll just leave in the most intense ones to keep the intensity at a really high level,

441
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:50,180
but then take out a lot of volume.

442
00:28:50,180 --> 00:28:55,700
So I'll do maybe half the sets of certain things, some things I'll completely take out.

443
00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:58,900
Just focus on climbing, have way shorter sessions,

444
00:28:58,900 --> 00:29:02,180
just my body is sharp in that sense.

445
00:29:02,820 --> 00:29:05,620
I know how to try hard, but I'm not destroying myself.

446
00:29:06,180 --> 00:29:12,500
Like really slowly taping my body and be fully ready at the comp.

447
00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:14,100
And so are you like climbing?

448
00:29:16,420 --> 00:29:19,620
Do you just like completely stop climbing before the competition?

449
00:29:19,620 --> 00:29:24,420
I know some people do like a full day of rest or full two days of rest.

450
00:29:24,420 --> 00:29:28,260
So what I kept in was my maximum days.

451
00:29:28,260 --> 00:29:34,500
So I kept the max finger boarding at least up to like a week before the comp.

452
00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:40,900
I kept my max finger boarding and max pull ups and like some swaps and all that.

453
00:29:41,780 --> 00:29:46,740
But really just do like one or two sets, like really low volume compared to like

454
00:29:46,740 --> 00:29:47,860
what I was training before.

455
00:29:47,860 --> 00:29:51,860
Climbing was doing maybe two to three days in general for like the six.

456
00:29:51,860 --> 00:29:55,300
Just have a lot more rest and then get good sleep and all that.

457
00:29:55,300 --> 00:30:03,300
And so then during the actual competition, I guess not just at this competition,

458
00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:06,740
but any other ones that you did for preparation.

459
00:30:08,500 --> 00:30:12,180
Where are you mentally during the competitions?

460
00:30:12,180 --> 00:30:17,220
Like, are you freaking out or do you find some way to kind of get yourself under control?

461
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:20,340
I was all over the place.

462
00:30:20,340 --> 00:30:26,580
I haven't had much competition experience before the last season, like this year, really.

463
00:30:26,580 --> 00:30:31,220
Just because of COVID and Hong Kong has had too many comps.

464
00:30:31,220 --> 00:30:36,340
I've had some, but there were very few and far between and like the quality of competitions.

465
00:30:36,340 --> 00:30:37,620
Also like they've had a lot.

466
00:30:37,620 --> 00:30:42,900
So it was the most packed season I've had ever.

467
00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:47,620
So I think in the beginning of season, I was like really freaking out.

468
00:30:47,620 --> 00:30:52,980
I was like, I couldn't climb my best at all and the timing of stuff, warming up and the

469
00:30:52,980 --> 00:30:56,980
whole process of going to a comp was all a mess.

470
00:30:56,980 --> 00:31:01,140
But I think by the end of season, I was like, personally, I think the mindset for climbing

471
00:31:01,140 --> 00:31:01,860
is very different.

472
00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:06,820
Some people go into it with the mindset of like, I'm going to destroy everybody and extremely

473
00:31:06,820 --> 00:31:09,540
confident I'm going to top all the balls.

474
00:31:09,540 --> 00:31:15,940
But for me, it's more, if I enjoy the climb more and think less about it, I'm going to

475
00:31:15,940 --> 00:31:20,740
enjoy the climb more and think less about the result or like others.

476
00:31:20,740 --> 00:31:22,980
To me, I perform better.

477
00:31:22,980 --> 00:31:25,060
Like that's just for me.

478
00:31:25,060 --> 00:31:31,140
Like I think competition mindset or like just mindset in climbing is very individual.

479
00:31:31,140 --> 00:31:33,060
It works differently for everybody.

480
00:31:33,060 --> 00:31:36,420
For me, if I enjoy it, don't think about the result too much.

481
00:31:36,420 --> 00:31:39,540
I tend to perform the best, which is kind of funny.

482
00:31:39,540 --> 00:31:41,540
It's like you always want to win in the comp.

483
00:31:41,540 --> 00:31:45,860
But for me, if I don't think about the win, then I'm not winning and something like that.

484
00:31:45,860 --> 00:31:48,020
So it's quite funny in that sense.

485
00:31:49,060 --> 00:31:55,380
Did you manage to get into that just have fun mindset when you were doing the team trials

486
00:31:55,380 --> 00:31:56,100
or were you-

487
00:31:56,740 --> 00:32:04,820
Actually, yeah, like the Boulder selections was one of the best comic-comic things I had.

488
00:32:05,620 --> 00:32:11,060
I think to me, what it means to have a good performance if you try really hard and manage

489
00:32:11,060 --> 00:32:12,980
to show what you've got, right?

490
00:32:12,980 --> 00:32:18,900
Like how many boulders are top at the end, to me almost doesn't matter.

491
00:32:18,900 --> 00:32:19,860
Like of course it does.

492
00:32:19,860 --> 00:32:26,260
But to me, like a true sign that my training work was I could really try my best on the

493
00:32:26,260 --> 00:32:26,660
Boulder.

494
00:32:26,660 --> 00:32:31,460
If my ability isn't there, it isn't there, but I'm there to test myself, right?

495
00:32:31,460 --> 00:32:35,300
If I can pull my best level out there, that's really good to me.

496
00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:40,020
I did have like a slight mistake, which cost me like four or five places.

497
00:32:40,020 --> 00:32:43,060
But I enjoyed climbing so much and it was so much fun.

498
00:32:43,060 --> 00:32:43,700
Awesome.

499
00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:46,820
So what did you end up placing in the end?

500
00:32:46,820 --> 00:32:50,900
I was 12th at the end, for the combined.

501
00:32:52,420 --> 00:32:56,580
And then they took eight or nine, I think.

502
00:32:56,580 --> 00:32:57,060
Yeah.

503
00:32:57,060 --> 00:32:58,580
Yeah, that's not bad at all.

504
00:32:58,580 --> 00:33:03,860
Was it just like qualifiers or you were also in semis?

505
00:33:03,860 --> 00:33:13,780
Semis? So our board selection had no, had only one round of comp.

506
00:33:13,780 --> 00:33:17,380
So we had one round of comp versus rotation comp.

507
00:33:17,380 --> 00:33:20,660
We had six boulders, five minutes each.

508
00:33:20,660 --> 00:33:24,020
And then your result is just based on that.

509
00:33:25,380 --> 00:33:28,660
The lead, we had qualifiers and then straight to finals.

510
00:33:29,380 --> 00:33:33,060
So not the most established comp ever.

511
00:33:33,060 --> 00:33:38,340
But I think the right people got in and the right people ended up representing the team.

512
00:33:38,340 --> 00:33:41,940
And I think it was right.

513
00:33:41,940 --> 00:33:47,700
I think if you look at a team, I'm not at the level where I need to be.

514
00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:51,780
And the people who are the best are at the top.

515
00:33:51,780 --> 00:33:55,620
So in that sense, I think the comp worked out.

516
00:33:55,620 --> 00:34:02,180
It's not the most traditional comp and definitely not the most comprehensive stuff.

517
00:34:02,180 --> 00:34:04,180
But I think it was fine.

518
00:34:04,180 --> 00:34:06,740
Well, you'll have more chances eventually.

519
00:34:08,180 --> 00:34:14,180
And so one thing that I think you did make it in for, I'm not entirely sure.

520
00:34:15,140 --> 00:34:17,780
You do some speed climbing, right?

521
00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:18,900
Yeah.

522
00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:23,780
So maybe in the middle of that six month training block I had, they had a speed team selection.

523
00:34:24,980 --> 00:34:27,780
And I guess, you know, I was doing so much physical training.

524
00:34:27,780 --> 00:34:30,740
I was, my body was quite ready for that.

525
00:34:30,740 --> 00:34:37,540
And the speed training, I'm not sure how it works in our teams, but in Hong Kong, our team had like

526
00:34:39,380 --> 00:34:43,780
a certain portion of the selection to be like just physical training.

527
00:34:43,780 --> 00:34:48,980
I guess the physical elements of speed climbing is very important as well.

528
00:34:48,980 --> 00:34:55,540
So doing weight to like testing, I guess, just lifting weights and stuff was like part of the test.

529
00:34:55,540 --> 00:34:56,820
And that did quite well on that.

530
00:34:56,820 --> 00:35:02,820
I guess it's a combination of that and that the coaches saw that I had hope, maybe.

531
00:35:03,780 --> 00:35:05,380
The potentials in these speed climbing.

532
00:35:05,380 --> 00:35:09,780
So they let me into the team and yeah, now I'm on the team for speed climbing.

533
00:35:10,580 --> 00:35:11,300
Oh, okay.

534
00:35:11,300 --> 00:35:13,380
So, well, congrats.

535
00:35:14,100 --> 00:35:16,500
What do you do for that?

536
00:35:16,500 --> 00:35:19,460
Like, do you travel around as part of the national team?

537
00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:22,100
No.

538
00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:31,220
So supposedly we're supposed to have a comp in September where we have Asian champs or Asian comp.

539
00:35:31,220 --> 00:35:37,300
One of the big comps, it would be like my first IFSC comp, but then there's something went wrong

540
00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:40,740
with the sign-up process within the team, some bureaucracy stuff.

541
00:35:41,620 --> 00:35:42,820
So now we're not going.

542
00:35:42,820 --> 00:35:43,220
Oh no.

543
00:35:44,580 --> 00:35:47,300
But in the future, I'll be going to some comps for sure.

544
00:35:48,260 --> 00:35:48,760
Okay.

545
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,840
Just like within Asia or like world level?

546
00:35:52,840 --> 00:36:01,240
I think it will depend on my ranking in the next team trials or that they will have like periods

547
00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:05,320
where they test you and they just change your ranking every now and then.

548
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,840
They have like a, they will have like a simulate comp within the team,

549
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,640
just to determine the ranking and who goes to comps.

550
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,320
So that would be horrible.

551
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,880
But I just want to say like, so technically if my goal was getting national team,

552
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:24,760
I sort of made it, but it's different because the Boulder team,

553
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,800
Boulder league team is separate to the speed team.

554
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:34,280
And my goal, when I sent out my goal, it wasn't getting to speed at all.

555
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:35,560
That wasn't even an option.

556
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:42,920
So I don't think I counted that as, no, making my dream happen.

557
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:48,120
It's just the circumstances just happens to fall that way.

558
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:53,960
And if it's not something I really worked hard for, I don't think it matters quite as much.

559
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,120
At least to me, that's not what my end goal was.

560
00:36:58,120 --> 00:36:59,400
It just so happens.

561
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,600
I was, I almost considered it was just luck, right?

562
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,360
I lost to me.

563
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:10,600
So I wasn't, I didn't count that as, you know, making my goal happen.

564
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,480
Yeah, I think that makes sense.

565
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,800
I mean, it's not really the thing you set out to do, but it happened anyway.

566
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,760
But I mean, I wouldn't say it's fully luck.

567
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:28,840
Like they, I mean, they must have seen your climbing and decided that you would at least

568
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,240
be decent enough for the speed team.

569
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:33,560
It's not like they take anyone.

570
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:34,920
Yeah.

571
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,560
I guess like I was good enough to do it just because of my training in

572
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,960
bordering and lead just because I was doing so much training and like my style as well

573
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,360
is quite dynamic and explosive.

574
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,000
So I guess that fit into it as well.

575
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,480
But yeah, I don't know.

576
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:52,760
I'll try hard on it.

577
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,200
I really appreciate the opportunity.

578
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:59,000
We've been trying our best to train, but that's all a mess as well.

579
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:01,160
Um, yeah.

580
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:01,640
How so?

581
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,520
We only have like a day training a week.

582
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,760
Like they've only assigned one day of training and there aren't any indoor

583
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,160
walls to do speed climbing in Holocaust.

584
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,640
And to use the auto belay system, you got to have like teams approval and using

585
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,960
a lot of timers and stuff, unless they have like the big sign off from the team.

586
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:21,160
You can't use any of this stuff.

587
00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:26,040
You can do like your top row with a mate to pull you up the speed wall, but

588
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,720
it just doesn't work if you want to have proper training session.

589
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,440
So it's been a bit annoying, but hopefully that will improve soon.

590
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,240
I've never considered top roping a speed route.

591
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:43,240
I feel like that could almost be more dangerous, a lot more dangerous.

592
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:43,720
It works.

593
00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:45,240
It's just very slow and.

594
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,440
It works when you're really figuring the beginning moves, but if you get

595
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:57,000
getting anywhere to like, if you want to improve properly, it's not the way.

596
00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:59,160
Yeah, makes sense.

597
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:01,080
Okay.

598
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:09,240
So at the end of your video, you kind of made it sound like you were giving up

599
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:15,880
on your dream and you kind of made it sound like you think that it's actually

600
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,880
kind of a crazy dream to begin with.

601
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:26,680
But I think from a viewer's perspective, it looks like you got really far and

602
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:31,320
you're still pretty young and there's selection again in two years.

603
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,760
So are you still feeling that way?

604
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,680
Like you still feel like it's, it was just a dream and that it's not

605
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,120
actually something you can accomplish.

606
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:47,480
Well, the whole thing about the training for six months, why, why the reason why

607
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:53,000
it was different from what I had done before, like I was training a lot already.

608
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:53,240
Right?

609
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:56,520
Like I said, like a few years ago, I was like climbing quite hard.

610
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,520
I was quite outdoors and I really tried my best to train for that.

611
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:07,000
But then it was different because it was not a consistent training and I had like

612
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:13,320
school in between, so there was quite a lot of distractions, but like for the

613
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:18,440
past few months, like not all of the last six months, but like for the majority of

614
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:25,000
majority of it, I finished uni and I really dedicated a lot of time to climbing

615
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,960
and training and I think for the level I want to be at, especially people at the

616
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,320
top, they're definitely training full time.

617
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,040
Especially if I'm like so far behind, I started so much laces and most people

618
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:44,440
who are at that level, I think it'll be, it is quite crazy to think that I can

619
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:45,960
catch up, I think.

620
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:52,840
Like I've done quite well, I think in terms of how far I've come and how

621
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,880
my goal I am, but it's just that I'm not sure.

622
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,600
I've been trying to figure it out for the past few months.

623
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,560
It's just that I've been working more now.

624
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:09,320
I've been had quite the same time to train, whereas like the pros, right?

625
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:14,680
They're amping up their training because of Olympics and all the rounds of

626
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:22,200
punks and especially if the team trials in two years, I just don't know if it's

627
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,120
realistic to go for it again.

628
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:30,040
In my head, I definitely want to, but I don't know, I've been struggling a bit

629
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,320
in the head to think that I could reach it.

630
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:35,240
Yeah.

631
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:36,040
Yeah.

632
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:41,160
By work, do you just mean the coaching stuff or do you also have like a different-

633
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:45,240
So I do coaching at the moment, that's like my main income.

634
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:47,880
That's doing okay at the moment.

635
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:54,440
I'm not sure if it's going to be quite enough for the kind of income I want to

636
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,240
have, but for now it's okay.

637
00:41:57,240 --> 00:42:02,920
So I can still continue training if I choose to, but I haven't been training

638
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,040
much since the team selections.

639
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:11,720
I've been climbing a lot still, but definitely nice focus and intentional

640
00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:12,520
with my climbing.

641
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,280
Well, that's a bit of a shame to hear.

642
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:14,920
We'll see.

643
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:22,760
I think whatever nationals coming up in September, it'll be the first, like,

644
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,200
it'll be like one of the big comps we have of the season.

645
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:27,640
I'll see how I do that.

646
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,800
I've been having like different first two climbing than what I had before.

647
00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:33,960
So we'll see.

648
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,120
I think it would determine how much I enjoy the comp really.

649
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,440
If I can really enjoy or have fun.

650
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,960
I think why not go for it again closer than ever.

651
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:49,720
But I think after all that, like a small break was necessary for me.

652
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:56,680
I feel like this might not be the same for everyone because to be honest, like

653
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,920
training for 6 months isn't that much, right?

654
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,080
People have been dedicated their lives to it.

655
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,720
Like it's not easy to think that just from six months of training, I can

656
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:10,120
catch up really, but I just, to me, I just want to see how close I can get.

657
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:17,000
And I really enjoyed pursuing it and everything about it was really enjoyable.

658
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:24,600
Of course, the result sucked at the end, but, um, I think I proved to myself that

659
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,480
I have a fighting chance if I have the time.

660
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,160
So it depends in the season.

661
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:37,160
If I have the time, so it depends in the next few months, where I can figure out

662
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,200
a schedule that works for all the training to fit in.

663
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,000
Um, I'm going to try my best to find a coach as well.

664
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,000
Um, I like an afforded one with my own coaching.

665
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,800
So it's, it's a funny concept that I'm a coach, but then I'm looking for a coach as well.

666
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:59,160
But I think everyone needs one, just someone to be more objective and someone

667
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,400
who can judge your climbing from like a different point of view.

668
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:07,880
You're always a bit subjective of yourself and you're not seeing everything when you're

669
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:09,640
looking at your own training plans.

670
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:15,640
And to me, like for the next level of climbing, I really would like someone to help me out.

671
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:16,920
Yeah.

672
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:17,800
Yeah, definitely.

673
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,040
Um, but yeah, I mean, you still have time.

674
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:23,560
You're still pretty young.

675
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,640
Um, it's not like you're actively getting worse at climbing, so

676
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:34,200
still doing pretty well and you can maybe just take it a little bit slower and still

677
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:35,800
improve and get to that level.

678
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:38,920
I think I've been climbing really well recently.

679
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,240
It's quite nice, I guess, on a training game from those six months is still here.

680
00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:43,880
Yeah, exactly.

681
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:50,760
So I've been doing less, but I'm climbing quite a bit harder than a few months ago, actually.

682
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,720
It's quite nice to, you know, feel stuff.

683
00:44:53,720 --> 00:45:01,240
Um, I also went to Japan after the team selections and it was cool to see how a lot of like strong

684
00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:02,120
level training there.

685
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:08,920
And I've been to UK where physical training is a massive part of the training.

686
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:14,600
You know, doing four or five days of conditional week is very common for most people.

687
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:20,760
Even at the non-pro level, you know, it's just a massive part of climbing there.

688
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,160
But in Japan, it's very different.

689
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,240
It's a completely different approach.

690
00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:31,240
They have much more climbing sessions and fairly little physical training.

691
00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:37,960
If they have any, it'll be like stuff with very light weights just to like keep the body healthy.

692
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:43,000
But it'll be very little training compared to anywhere else in the world.

693
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:45,720
So in my head, I'm doing enough.

694
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:51,240
I'm doing my climbing in the Japanese way of it, you know, just think about climbing,

695
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:56,840
just the climbing portion, a lot more work on your technique and your movements have

696
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:58,040
a lot more focus for that.

697
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:03,080
It's not like I did them before, but I think it's just allowing it more time,

698
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,560
giving it more space to develop.

699
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:07,960
That's what works for me at the moment.

700
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,560
I'm not sure if some people will call this lazy.

701
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:18,200
I'm still climbing like five days a week, I guess, but it's just different.

702
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,440
I think I'm going into it with different mindset.

703
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,360
Less pressure as well, enjoy the climbing more.

704
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:27,400
Yeah, that's what I've been doing for the past few months after the selections.

705
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:28,840
No, I mean, that totally makes sense.

706
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,240
I think that's what most people do.

707
00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:38,600
But yeah, I mean, you said that you're feeling better and you're climbing now than even before.

708
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:43,400
And before you weren't that far off, only four places, four places.

709
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:44,920
Yeah, only four places off.

710
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,960
So you might still have a good shot.

711
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:54,120
You mentioned that there was still quite a difference between, I guess, like a normal

712
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,640
climber where you are now and like a pro climber.

713
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:03,000
What do you think that difference is and what more do you think you need to get there?

714
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:09,560
Well, in terms of level, where the pro are, are definitely a step up from where I am.

715
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:16,280
I think if you just look at like the level, if you go to a commercial gym,

716
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,400
the pro climbers will flash everything, basically.

717
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,480
Even on the hardest grade, it will take them a handful of temps and that's it.

718
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:29,880
For me, I still, it doesn't matter where I go, like especially Japan, I'll struggle a lot more there.

719
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:30,380
Sure.

720
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:36,120
But yeah, if you just look at that, I'm not at a level where I need to be yet.

721
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:40,280
And I'm making a lot of like amateur mistakes on the wall still.

722
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:47,880
Like, and these mistakes might not look apparent to a lot of people, but when I hesitate on the wall,

723
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:52,280
like even when I video myself, I, I, I, it doesn't show on the video.

724
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:56,840
But I know in my mind, I hesitated, I thought too much of that, maybe I'm not wasting energy.

725
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:03,720
Just like really small details is what's separating me from where I want to be, I think.

726
00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:09,800
Also like mindset is the main thing, I reckon.

727
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:16,680
Just being able to like perform even when you're really scared on the pressure, you know,

728
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:22,360
still extracting a lot from your best climbing when you're not feeling your best.

729
00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:24,840
That's what separates the best.

730
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:29,080
When I'm stressed and I'm stressed out in a climb, when I'm scared and calm,

731
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:35,240
I climb horrible, but let's say I would drop to like a 60% level,

732
00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:38,840
whereas maybe for the pros, they would drop 5%, 10%.

733
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,000
It's still a really high level.

734
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:46,200
And I think that's the main difference being how much you can extract from your best climbing

735
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:48,440
when you have to perform.

736
00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:49,880
It's the best.

737
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:50,440
Yeah.

738
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:56,840
I think if just talking career climbing level, I'm, I'm not saying that I'm not going to be

739
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:01,480
just talking career climbing level, I'm kind of close.

740
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:06,360
It's hard to tell because comp climbing, you don't have a grade to it.

741
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:11,560
And if you just look at numbers, V11s, nothing compared to what the pros are climbing.

742
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,120
But personally, I'm quite helpful, you know?

743
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:19,000
I've been trying to hide outdoors for like a few years now.

744
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:23,560
And just because there isn't anything that I hide in Hong Kong, it's hard to project.

745
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:31,720
So if you just look at numbers, it's hard to tell, but it's, I'm lucky that a lot of my friends who

746
00:49:31,720 --> 00:49:35,880
compete in the World Cups from Hong Kong are right next to me all the time.

747
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:42,360
And just from climbing with them regularly, I can sort of gauge my level.

748
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:44,600
Yeah.

749
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:49,720
So I'm lucky in that sense, but no, I'm not where I want to be, but it might be possible.

750
00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:58,840
Are you doing any sort of, I guess like mindset work to help deal with the stress in competition?

751
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:03,640
I haven't done any like specific drills or anything, but just giving it more thought

752
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,720
after comp was very important to me.

753
00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:16,920
So even the process of making that video was, just to put it out there was a big thing for me.

754
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:23,160
Because you don't see a lot of videos where, you know, people fail at the end.

755
00:50:23,720 --> 00:50:29,800
The perfect story would be, I messed up, I tried hard, and then two years later, you know,

756
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,880
I went, that would be the perfect story, right?

757
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:41,880
But I think I decided to put that video out there just because I don't think that was the end of story.

758
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,120
Like, of course it would take me some time to figure out.

759
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:49,720
As I've said, I have some doubts about where I'm going, how I'm going to go about my dream.

760
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:56,040
But I think it's part of the process and everything I did.

761
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,160
Like, I just want to put it out there to see.

762
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:05,560
Um, I would like it to be the perfect story, but it was part of the process.

763
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:07,320
It was what I went through.

764
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,520
It was like an experience I had, which I really enjoy.

765
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:17,960
Like, if you look at the whole experience, I really enjoy putting my heart into climbing, like 100%.

766
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,480
I had very little distractions.

767
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:27,240
I did have work, but it was like really lower my working hours, just so I'm focused on comp.

768
00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:29,240
Made my parents a bit stressed, but um.

769
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,760
But yeah, my parents were kind enough for me to, you know, I told them,

770
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:37,640
just give me a few months.

771
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:41,000
Just really want to go for this, see what I can get.

772
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,880
Um, they're nice enough to let me do that.

773
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,320
As long as I can support myself to do fine with it.

774
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:52,280
So yeah, just enjoy my own climbing for now.

775
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:53,340
We'll see.

776
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:58,840
Yeah, you definitely seem to do a lot of reflection after the fact.

777
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:06,760
Um, I think one question that you had asked was why do you climb?

778
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:09,240
Um, do you have an answer for that?

779
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:17,160
I think when I set up my goal of getting the team, I did think about that.

780
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:19,800
I think I had a specific goal, right?

781
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,280
Just like get on the team, go to the World Cup, dominate.

782
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:22,780
Wow.

783
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:27,160
But I didn't fully understand why.

784
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:28,920
I don't think I even thought about it.

785
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:34,680
And what you're looking at, let's say right up, we're recording this right

786
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:35,720
after World Championships, right?

787
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,080
After the first round of Olympic qualifiers.

788
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:47,000
And most things you read on the athletes Instagram post for everyone who has failed

789
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:48,680
or even people who have succeeded.

790
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,320
It's not about how strong they think they are.

791
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:55,640
It's not about how much I'm pulling on my void or plums.

792
00:52:55,640 --> 00:53:00,920
It's all about the mindset and how they're dealing with the pressure.

793
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:07,880
And I think knowing why you climb is a very important thing.

794
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,240
And why compete, right?

795
00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:12,440
Like I can, a lot of people just enjoy climbing, right?

796
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:16,520
Just if you go outdoors, you can still have fun with friends.

797
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:17,080
You can still try hard.

798
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:20,280
You can still put a hundred percent to your climbing with no time pressure.

799
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:30,120
To me, why I climb was because climbing so diverse and you need to be so

800
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:31,720
skillful in so many things.

801
00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:36,680
And I find that to be fascinating to be a messed up every style.

802
00:53:37,720 --> 00:53:41,240
I find that to be like so insanely fine.

803
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:43,240
You got to be so adaptable.

804
00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:44,440
You got to think so fast.

805
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:51,000
And to me, the one I wanted after reflection was hanging with other

806
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:52,280
people who are just as crazy.

807
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:59,400
And to me, the best way off that was going to a comp as a comp climber.

808
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,160
They had me all my idols.

809
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:06,040
I can meet all these other crazy people who are absolutely nuts about climbing.

810
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:13,080
To me, comp climbing, it's, it's like, it's like, it's like,

811
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:17,160
it's like climbing, it's, you got to be the most well-rounded climber.

812
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,760
And to do that, you got to do a lot of thinking as well.

813
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:27,480
And to talk to other people who have given, I'm not sure about this, but I'm

814
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:31,640
pretty sure most people at the top think about their own climbing a lot.

815
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:32,760
Right?

816
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,520
After the training, they're not just, you know, forgetting about everything

817
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:37,960
and do other stuff.

818
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:39,400
They're still thinking about climbing.

819
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,880
Even when they sleep, they're dreaming about climbing.

820
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,240
And to me, I want to hang with people like that.

821
00:54:45,240 --> 00:54:54,600
I want to experience climbing alongside them, with them, or just experience

822
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:55,800
different aspects of climbing.

823
00:54:56,360 --> 00:55:00,520
And I think being a pro climber allows you to try a lot of new stuff within

824
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:01,320
climbing.

825
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,560
There are a lot of opportunities you can have.

826
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:05,320
That's why I wanted to be one.

827
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:11,320
So yeah, I think understanding why you climb is extremely important.

828
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:17,160
Because knowing what you want makes it a lot easier to approach your goal.

829
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:24,920
And when the end goal for me was to have fun, enjoy it, it changes the

830
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,400
dynamic of my sessions or the mindset.

831
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:33,080
When the mindset is like, have fun at the end, like I'm in this so I can have

832
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,880
fun and, you know, talk to people I love.

833
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:40,040
Talk to people who are just as crazy with me, just as crazy about climbing,

834
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,680
ask me.

835
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,040
Then I shouldn't be stressing all the time when I don't climb well.

836
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:46,360
Right?

837
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:49,880
Even when I'm not climbing well, I was still doing what I love.

838
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:51,560
I'm still climbing.

839
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:52,600
I'm still having fun.

840
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:55,480
To me, that's the most important part.

841
00:55:56,120 --> 00:56:01,240
If you're not enjoying it anymore, I don't really see the point.

842
00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:04,840
Of course, you can't be all happy every single day when you go into climbing,

843
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:09,160
but at least trying to be is quite important to me.

844
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,600
Or at least there's something I should strive for.

845
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,760
Just enjoying climbing and enjoy the company.

846
00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:19,080
That was a really good way of putting it.

847
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:24,680
I wish we could end on that note, but I have a couple of discord questions.

848
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:26,920
Sure, let's go for it.

849
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:27,420
Yeah.

850
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:34,120
The first one, are there areas where you feel like your lack of experience

851
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:40,840
climbing in terms of just number of years, is I guess your lack of experience

852
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:45,560
shows up more compared to climbers who have been climbing since they were kids.

853
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:46,840
Do you notice a difference there?

854
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:49,160
Yeah, definitely.

855
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:54,360
In terms of thinking about beta, if you're talking specifics, it's the biggest thing.

856
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:59,080
When I'm in a comp or just a normal climbing setting in the gym,

857
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,560
let's say we have a hard problem with our projecting,

858
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,960
I might think of one or two ways to do it.

859
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:09,960
If you give me time, I think of three, but those ideas and betas and ways

860
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,440
of doing climb come instantly to my friends.

861
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:18,040
Of course, they've been climbing for ages, but that's the most noticeable difference

862
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:24,600
to me that they can figure out climbs really quickly and that relates to

863
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:26,920
repeat hard moves once they have done them.

864
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:28,680
It's crazy.

865
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:32,600
Once they figure out their body positions, they know exactly what their body's doing.

866
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:37,320
If I do a move first try, I think sometimes it's a lot.

867
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:43,720
Like maybe I study a lot about climbing and like really analyze my own movements,

868
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:48,520
but I still struggle with knowing exactly what my body's doing,

869
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:53,880
being very intentional with where I'm placing my hips, my foot,

870
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:57,800
how much momentum I'm going, all the small details.

871
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:06,440
It's what separates me from the top or separates normal climbers from the top.

872
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:09,320
You don't notice these things.

873
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:14,840
I think if you just look at videos, I pose and a lot of videos, I'll have a few pose.

874
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,480
It's hard to tell the difference I even find.

875
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:22,440
Like you're just jumping around the same climb, so what is the difference?

876
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:29,320
But it's what's going on in the mind that is the biggest separation to me.

877
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:35,560
Do you think that in 10 years you'll have that kind of experience

878
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:37,560
and that won't be an issue for you anymore?

879
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:39,480
Hopefully.

880
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:43,880
Hopefully I'll be, if I'm intentional with my climbing,

881
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:48,360
you know, for the next 10 years, I hope I'll be at a really good level that I'm happy with.

882
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:49,480
Don't know.

883
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:50,620
Okay.

884
00:58:50,620 --> 00:58:52,620
Other question.

885
00:58:53,740 --> 00:58:55,740
You might've answered this a little bit.

886
00:58:56,780 --> 00:59:01,580
How did you have the time and money to make your training happen?

887
00:59:02,940 --> 00:59:06,780
Was that just because you were like done with school

888
00:59:06,780 --> 00:59:09,900
and you had like some money from coaching?

889
00:59:10,940 --> 00:59:16,460
So I've been saving up like all the time, I guess, when I had a save up.

890
00:59:16,460 --> 00:59:23,580
I wasn't spending too much really, and I'm still staying with my parents.

891
00:59:24,140 --> 00:59:27,580
So all the spending I had was for gyms, equipment and stuff.

892
00:59:27,580 --> 00:59:33,900
And that's my own coaching as a part-time job, like covers most of that.

893
00:59:34,460 --> 00:59:37,900
And yeah, so that wasn't really a problem.

894
00:59:39,020 --> 00:59:41,260
So nowadays, what's your plan?

895
00:59:43,340 --> 00:59:45,900
At the moment, I'm doing more coaching.

896
00:59:45,900 --> 00:59:50,700
It's like I'm taking it more, I just like full-time doing online consultations as well.

897
00:59:50,700 --> 00:59:55,580
I'm starting to do some, a lot more face-to-face one-on-one coaching stuff.

898
00:59:55,580 --> 00:59:59,900
Because that's why I enjoy the most, like really helping someone to like

899
00:59:59,900 --> 01:00:03,260
get better at climbing or whatever their goal is, right?

900
01:00:03,260 --> 01:00:06,620
Some people that have very specific goal of some clients who are like

901
01:00:06,620 --> 01:00:07,980
trying to get on the team as well.

902
01:00:07,980 --> 01:00:13,100
They want to compete at a high level and I try my best to, you know,

903
01:00:13,100 --> 01:00:20,540
help them learn from my mistakes and tell them things that I think works

904
01:00:20,540 --> 01:00:22,460
or will be most beneficial.

905
01:00:22,460 --> 01:00:24,700
Of course, it requires them to think for themselves as well.

906
01:00:26,620 --> 01:00:32,540
Or there are a lot of clients who just want to enjoy climbing at a high level.

907
01:00:32,540 --> 01:00:37,660
But like to me, it's important to ask them why as well.

908
01:00:37,660 --> 01:00:41,580
Like I don't want to just climb with someone who doesn't really care and, you know,

909
01:00:41,580 --> 01:00:44,300
just want to get better as you climb higher grade.

910
01:00:45,340 --> 01:00:49,500
The point of getting better to me, if you don't have a specific goal

911
01:00:49,500 --> 01:00:52,780
and you still want to get better, you got to understand why.

912
01:00:52,780 --> 01:00:56,380
And to me, to get better means you can explore more.

913
01:00:57,340 --> 01:01:01,580
When we think of higher grades, it's not just because you can take up a high number on Instagram.

914
01:01:01,580 --> 01:01:06,300
It's because the moves are, they get way cooler, right?

915
01:01:07,020 --> 01:01:09,820
By being stronger, you can experience more stuff

916
01:01:09,820 --> 01:01:12,540
and doing more fancy moves, be more creative.

917
01:01:12,540 --> 01:01:16,860
And the crazy things on your mind that you think you could do,

918
01:01:16,860 --> 01:01:19,580
your body will be able to handle them.

919
01:01:19,580 --> 01:01:21,420
And that's a great feeling, I think.

920
01:01:22,700 --> 01:01:27,340
And like making my clients realize that it's like quite important to me.

921
01:01:27,900 --> 01:01:30,220
So yeah, I do a lot of coaching.

922
01:01:30,220 --> 01:01:31,100
I really enjoy it.

923
01:01:31,100 --> 01:01:33,420
Teaching kids is super fun.

924
01:01:33,420 --> 01:01:34,460
They progress so fast.

925
01:01:34,460 --> 01:01:35,660
They learn so quick.

926
01:01:35,660 --> 01:01:38,940
And like kids are like so simple minded.

927
01:01:38,940 --> 01:01:40,300
They just want to get better.

928
01:01:40,300 --> 01:01:42,060
So they don't rest.

929
01:01:42,060 --> 01:01:45,980
They just got to yank them off the wall to tell them to stop.

930
01:01:45,980 --> 01:01:47,900
They just want to keep going, keep going, keep trying.

931
01:01:47,900 --> 01:01:51,580
And I find it so fun and helping them get better

932
01:01:51,580 --> 01:01:56,940
and like seeing the size of the face when they really feel their own progression is amazing.

933
01:01:57,500 --> 01:02:00,540
Especially since they start like really at nothing level.

934
01:02:00,540 --> 01:02:04,380
Although I love kids, kids I coach are they start from nothing.

935
01:02:04,380 --> 01:02:05,980
They don't have any sports background.

936
01:02:05,980 --> 01:02:07,180
Also, they're really young.

937
01:02:07,180 --> 01:02:17,260
But making my goal is just have my kids to be scaring all the other climbers at the gym.

938
01:02:17,260 --> 01:02:19,020
Like, oh, what are they doing?

939
01:02:19,020 --> 01:02:20,780
How are they climbing on projects?

940
01:02:20,780 --> 01:02:21,420
That's my dream.

941
01:02:21,420 --> 01:02:22,300
I love kids.

942
01:02:22,300 --> 01:02:25,100
That I think is really fun with it and setting.

943
01:02:25,100 --> 01:02:27,580
But yeah, I love my coaching stuff.

944
01:02:27,580 --> 01:02:28,860
And it's really enjoyable.

945
01:02:28,860 --> 01:02:30,780
So at the moment, I keep coaching.

946
01:02:31,340 --> 01:02:33,260
I'm really enjoying the YouTube as well.

947
01:02:33,260 --> 01:02:35,660
But that's just so fun at the moment.

948
01:02:35,660 --> 01:02:40,780
Do you want to keep doing something in the climbing space for the rest of your life?

949
01:02:40,780 --> 01:02:42,860
You think that's your calling?

950
01:02:42,860 --> 01:02:43,660
I think so.

951
01:02:43,660 --> 01:02:46,220
I think I've had passion in the past.

952
01:02:46,220 --> 01:02:51,100
I've surfed, I've skated, but I've never been quite as crazy.

953
01:02:51,100 --> 01:02:55,420
And I don't think I've, I was passionate about that sport for so long.

954
01:02:55,980 --> 01:02:57,980
It's been four years since I started climbing.

955
01:02:58,860 --> 01:03:02,460
I think I'm just as crazy, if not more about climbing than ever.

956
01:03:02,460 --> 01:03:05,500
So I don't see this passion going away anytime soon.

957
01:03:05,900 --> 01:03:11,260
And if it does, there's so much more like about climbing that I haven't tried yet.

958
01:03:11,260 --> 01:03:14,220
Like one day I'll really like to try big wall climbing.

959
01:03:14,220 --> 01:03:19,740
I haven't really put my time into the climbing, just like two massive aspect of climbing.

960
01:03:19,740 --> 01:03:21,100
I haven't even explored yet.

961
01:03:21,980 --> 01:03:26,780
Like going, doing more outdoor trips, going to expeditions one day.

962
01:03:27,420 --> 01:03:31,980
I don't know, but even just within this more bordering, calm,

963
01:03:31,980 --> 01:03:34,620
climbing space I'm in, I'm having so much fun.

964
01:03:35,820 --> 01:03:41,340
I don't see this passion going away anytime soon, especially with so many more aspects

965
01:03:41,340 --> 01:03:46,060
of climbing that have been left unexplored.

966
01:03:49,180 --> 01:03:49,660
Yeah.

967
01:03:49,660 --> 01:03:50,460
Awesome.

968
01:03:50,460 --> 01:03:53,420
Well, I think that is everything I wanted to cover.

969
01:03:53,420 --> 01:03:55,500
Thanks for joining me today.

970
01:03:55,500 --> 01:03:59,180
Would you like to let everyone know where they can find you?

971
01:03:59,180 --> 01:04:02,380
If they want to follow the rest of your journey and support you?

972
01:04:03,820 --> 01:04:09,020
If you just look up Jonathan Sen on Instagram, you'll probably find me,

973
01:04:09,020 --> 01:04:10,780
the kid with the white hair icon.

974
01:04:11,500 --> 01:04:12,780
It's quite easy to tell, I think.

975
01:04:12,780 --> 01:04:19,020
I'm also on YouTube where I document my process and the amazing people I meet.

976
01:04:19,020 --> 01:04:24,060
And I have a trip about Japan that I documented.

977
01:04:24,060 --> 01:04:25,580
I had a lot of cool experiences there.

978
01:04:25,580 --> 01:04:28,140
I'm doing a series on all things Japanese climbing.

979
01:04:28,140 --> 01:04:29,420
It'd be cool to check that out.

980
01:04:29,420 --> 01:04:34,540
I think that's something that's not really common in the climbing space,

981
01:04:34,540 --> 01:04:39,580
just understanding Japanese climbing and why they're so good, the culture behind it.

982
01:04:39,580 --> 01:04:46,060
It's just a bit of space that's unexplored and I want to fill that gap and tell some cool stories.

983
01:04:46,700 --> 01:04:49,100
So yeah, I'm on YouTube, I'm on Instagram.

984
01:04:49,100 --> 01:04:50,860
Let me know what you think.

985
01:04:51,980 --> 01:04:53,020
Okay, awesome.

986
01:04:53,020 --> 01:04:54,220
Well, thank you again.

987
01:04:54,220 --> 01:04:56,860
It was amazing to talk to you and good luck.

988
01:04:56,860 --> 01:05:00,540
And your competition endeavors were rooting for you.

989
01:05:00,540 --> 01:05:01,180
Thank you for your time.

990
01:05:01,180 --> 01:05:04,460
Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast.

991
01:05:04,460 --> 01:05:10,460
If you're watching on YouTube, I would love to hear your discussion and thoughts in the comments below.

992
01:05:10,460 --> 01:05:13,820
And don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed.

993
01:05:13,820 --> 01:05:19,660
If you're listening through a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you rated it five stars

994
01:05:19,660 --> 01:05:25,900
and you can continue the discussion through my competition climbing Discord server linked in the description.

995
01:05:25,900 --> 01:05:33,500
Thanks again for listening.