Hi, I'm Quinn Carnegie, welcome to Manifestation, Motivation and Passion.
If you're looking to transform by delving into brain science, sacred inner wisdom and
want to heal and feel great about your life and live in your powerful loving centre, whilst
bringing affluence into your world, then tune in, and let's evolve together.
Hi, I'm Quinn and you're listening to Manifestation, Motivation and Passion, Brain Rewiring Required.
Today I have Penny with me and Penny has an in-depth knowledge of naturopathic support
and homeopathy.
Penny also specializes in nutritional advice, blood chemistry analysis and hair tissue mineral
analysis.
And when Penny's not in the clinic, she also teaches and supervises students in homeopathy
and nutritional medicine, as well as having three beautiful children.
Wow, that's a lot.
Yeah, I get a little bit busy.
Thank you again for joining me.
So my interest was all about trauma and how that relates to the brain.
And what fascinated me was until recently, I wasn't aware that serotonin is a neurotransmitter
that regulates sleep, mediates mood and inhibits pain, but it also produced in the gastrointestinal
tract.
So does what happens in the gut contribute to how the brain functions?
Yeah.
Oh God, it's such a huge topic as well.
And one of the things I know from trauma is that it's really difficult to get a chicken
or egg situation, which one is the cause of bad gut function and which is the cause of
bad brain function.
But with trauma, I mean, I guess you're aware too, that the bad stuff starts first in the
bad feelings and stress, fight, flight switches on.
So in a way to get to that whole serotonin thing, we've got to kind of look first at,
you know, the vagus nerve, right?
Yes.
Everybody goes on and on about the vagus nerve in trauma, kind of treatments and all of that
kind of thing.
So if you're in fight flight because you've had trauma and you're reacting inappropriately
in a non-dangerous situation, but that your brain is telling you that there's danger,
you're switching on your fight flight, which is a sympathetic nervous system.
This is all your nervous system that is governed automatically and it's called the autonomic
nervous system.
You're not actually aware of it all happening unless you're a yogi or something, you know,
there are a lot of people who get really into meditation and they can influence their nervous
system and you can, but anyway, I'm going off track.
So in terms of when you have that trauma trigger response in a situation that's not actually
dangerous, your body's switched on as though it's dangerous.
You're not going to be prioritizing rest and digest and repair.
You're going to be prioritizing running away from whatever threat, real or imagined, is
there.
So you're not going to be prioritizing your digestive system.
Wow.
So it means that, yeah, it minimizes blood supply then to your gut and it minimizes nerve
supply to your gut.
So the vagus nerve is one of the chief nerves that governs gut function, rest and digest
when you're not in fight flight.
So when you sit down to a meal and maybe you're having an argument with somebody or you've
seen something horrible on TV or you've just had a really hard day at work and you're sitting
down and thinking, oh, I've got to eat before I get into this next whatever and you're in
a rush, you've got fight flight switched on.
So you're not in rest and digest.
So the vagus nerve, when it's switched on properly is parasympathetic rest digest repair.
So the vagus nerve governs making sure you've got enough stomach acid, making sure you've
got enough enzymes to digest, making sure gut mortality is working well.
So starting at the top, if you don't have, and I will get to serotonin in a sec, but
this is really important.
If you're switched on to fight flight, you're not going to have enough stomach acid, right?
Amongst all the other secretions.
And you might think, oh well, my stomach acid is a bit low, whatever.
But then you're going to get first of all, fermentation of protein in the stomach.
So it's not going to digest properly.
Then you're getting things like reflux happening.
And a lot of doctors will say, oh, but reflux is from high stomach acid.
Actually a lot of the time it's from low because you're getting gas glopping up into your esophagus.
Then not only that, your stomach then secretes the food into the small intestine.
So the small intestine should be an alkaline environment because you've got the pancreas
and the bile salts neutralizing the stomach acid from the stomach.
But if you've got low stomach acid, when that food gets secreted into the small intestine,
you're not actually triggering off all of those secretions properly from the pancreas
and from the gallbladder.
So the food, the chyme, which is what it's called, is actually too acidic for the small
intestine because it's not being adequately neutralized by those secretions.
Then what you get is the wrong bacteria growing there if it happens again and again and again,
because then you've got a relatively acidic small intestine.
So that happens because of low stomach acid, because of a lot of the time, because of stress.
Then what happens is you get the wrong bacteria making the wrong products.
And one of those products that some of that bacteria make is serotonin.
There are other cells in the body dedicated to serotonin production as well.
It's not just the gut bacteria, but you're setting your gut bacteria up wrong right from
the start if you've got low stomach acid.
Wow, so it sounds like the gut really is the second brain then, because there's so much
going on that we need to look after to be able to get all those nutrients up to the
brain so it can do its job.
Yeah.
And one of the things about serotonin is it's also responsible for gut motility.
What do you mean by that?
Movement of...
So you have these what's called peristaltic waves driving the food through the gut.
Now one of the substances responsible for peristalsis, those kind of movements that
the intestines make and the stomach, it's all of this muscle, this smooth muscle that's
governed by what's called the enteric nervous system.
So what we're talking about with the second brain is that there's this entire nervous
system dedicated to the gut.
So the minute you swallow your food down your esophagus, which is that tube leading to the
stomach, to the anus, the whole gut is lined with nervous tissue called the enteric nervous
system.
And it's governed by what I was talking about earlier, the autonomic nervous system, and
a lot of it's governed by the vagus nerve, which is the chief autonomic parasympathetic,
it's called nerve that supplies that rest and digest kind of function of the gut.
Okay.
And now I understand with the enteric nervous system that fewer carbs and either less or
no red meat can lead to like an improvement of gut health.
Is that...
I know everyone's different, but there's the...
And I can't think of the name of it.
There's a book that is your gut personality that says, you know, certain people shouldn't
eat meat and that sort of thing.
Is there any truth behind that?
Is that the...
There's eat right for your type?
I think it's called...
Oh, that's the one I'm thinking of.
Yes.
I would say yes, but with a grain of salt, I wouldn't generalize like that for anybody.
And there are variations.
I know people who are O blood types who theoretically do really well on meat, high protein meat
sort of diets who are vegan.
And I can't comment on how well they're doing or...
But they seem to be doing fine.
Other people who are A blood types who theoretically could be better on a vegan diet, maybe eating
meat and being fine.
So I'm sure there are exceptions to that rule, but I can tell you a story about my own journey
when I was first studying, this was like 20 years ago.
It was very heavily kind of skewed towards plant-based diet.
And I'm not against a plant-based diet at all.
And I actually went plant-based for a while.
I lasted about two years and I'm an O blood type.
So I just remember walking past chicken shops and like salivating.
And my body did really badly.
And I was learning nutrition.
So I was making sure I was getting all the right plant proteins and combining proteins
between legumes and rice and just making sure everything was kind of balanced.
My hormones went out of whack.
It was terrible.
The whole thing was terrible.
I put on 10 kilos.
My hair started falling out.
My nails were buckling.
My iron just went through the floor.
My energy was terrible.
And my stomach was constantly bloated.
And I'm an O blood type.
So when I read that book, it actually gave me permission to stop being vegetarian.
I think certain people can cope very well with meat.
And once I started eating quality meat, I'm talking grass-fed organic, if you can afford
it.
I think most people do need a little bit of that here and there because it provides such
a rich source of not only protein, but zinc and a whole lot of other minerals and iron.
And I think that balanced diet is so important, making sure you're aware of how your body
copes with particular foods.
And there is no one answer to all that.
On saying that what you're talking about with carbohydrates, that again, I don't think all
of us should be keto.
I think, and keto meaning only eating protein and your non-starchy vegetables.
I think that might be good for a short time for people who are in the fitness industry
or men, maybe some women.
But I think for people who are really adrenally drained, especially for women going through
perimenopause or women who have had a lot of trauma and maybe men as well, I can't speak
for men so much.
It's really hard on the adrenals and it's also really hard on thyroid function.
So I think some carbs are really nurturing, like your root vegetables, sweet potato, yammy
type things are quite good.
Yeah.
But there are various qualities of carbs.
So your white rice has very high GI.
Yeah, chocolate lollies, all of that kind of thing.
Yeah.
A lot of people who crave carbs are very, usually very stressed and their adrenals are
crying out and they're in flight flight.
And if you're in flight flight, you're not in rest and digest.
So you're not going to be able to feel like you want a big protein nutritious meal.
You're just going to want carbs to feed your blood glucose to run away from that there,
even if there is no there, because that's what flight flight does.
It gets your body ready and primed to run.
So it's not going to be into digest.
I guess that's what you could say.
So you will, you'll crave simple carbs.
Oh, sorry.
Can I just jump back to now you touched briefly on perimenopausal and I had a conversation
with someone just a couple of days ago that said, how do you trigger the chemicals in
your brain to offset perimenopause and or menopause because they don't have those feelings
of I think her words were nothing excites me anymore.
Like I feel like I'm just, it's no emotion.
Like it's just existing.
Yeah, how do you, I guess, raise, you know, through through food or, you know, is there
something that can be done to elevate those hormones naturally?
Yes, it's a big subject.
One of the problems with perimenopause, especially when it comes to the combination of perimenopause
and previous trauma is that when we stop ovulating, our ovaries no longer produce progesterone
in the same way.
And so our body relies on our adrenals to produce progesterone.
So of course, you know, a lot of us are in perimenopause, we've got kids, we've got
maybe aging parents, we've got really big job responsibility.
So even without trauma, it's pretty full on and then you add in trauma and your adrenals
are usually pretty wiped out by.
So yeah, so if your adrenals are already wiped out, then I guess what can be done to focus
on that brain connection to improve your moods and your emotions.
It takes a bit of work and I don't know if you can get it perfect at 50.
I'm still working on that.
But supporting adrenal function is huge.
You know, not filling your body with caffeine, listening to the I'm tired cues, which can
be sometimes hard if you're not fully connected to your body, making sure you don't eat loads
of sugar, even if you have sugar cravings.
And one of the biggest indicators of low magnesium in the system is sugar cravings and losing
interesting.
Okay, I'm sugar and a tea girl.
So yes, yes.
And a lot of people who have been through trauma, they crave sweets and caffeine because
they're stimulants.
So they can help us stay in that stimulated state, which we're used to.
It's almost like we're addicted to it.
Yeah.
And I know I mentioned to you off air that I've been a victim or survivor, whichever
way you look at it, of human trafficking.
So it's something that has prompted me to start the podcast and look at the different
ways that we can help ourselves.
So obviously, stress affects our cognitive abilities, sort of jumping back to that gastrointestinal
track.
Am I right?
I think I read somewhere that at least 50% is produced in our gut.
Is that correct?
Are you talking about serotonin?
Sorry, that was badly worded.
Yes, serotonin.
No, that's all right.
I think it's up to 90% or even more.
Yeah.
And serotonin is kind of our feel good hormone.
You know, there's that dopamine kind of thing.
And to put in a really, really oversimplified nutshell, dopamine, you get a hit.
You know, if your sports team wins or if you do well in a video game, you get this dopamine
hit, which is why it's so addictive.
With serotonin, it's more our kind of contentment hormone, I guess you could say, where we feel
a little bit more content.
So if we're really low in serotonin, we might be wired and constipated.
Sometimes it can lead to diarrhea as well, especially if the gut bacteria is wrong and
there's a whole lot of other stuff that's wrong.
But yes, because serotonin is responsible for gut motility, it can often lead to constipation
or imbalances in constipation, diarrhea, all of that kind of thing, and feeling anxious
and wired.
But I think also you need a whole lot of nutrients to make sure the serotonin is produced.
You need the right gut bacteria imbalance.
And all of us, because I've had trauma as well, as you know.
So this is a big area of mine where I really focus on in my practice.
And it's about trying to help to tone down, first of all, that fight flight reaction trigger,
which doesn't happen in the gut, but the gut responds to it.
And I think that's where the core of it lies, which for me, food wise, you can't really
cause that to happen.
I mean, I'm saying that there are people with binging and stuff like that.
That sometimes can force blood and nerve supply to the gut, which I think is why people do
that because then it forces them, I guess, out of fight flight.
We don't want to be doing that because it's not good for our health and it's not good
for our wellbeing.
But being able to find other ways to re-circuit, I guess, the subconscious and the brain so
that we can reduce that inappropriate fight flight trigger is key.
And no matter how much you support the gut in making serotonin in gut bacteria and all
of that kind of thing, that's still important.
And I'm not saying it's not, but I think to originate it at the core of it, at that emotional,
it's the amygdala in the brain that sends out those danger signals that's affected by
the trauma.
It's one of the areas of learning.
So if we can work on that part of ourselves and on the invisible part of ourselves that's
not...
There really is such a big topic to get my head around.
It's so complex.
So are there, I guess, certain foods then that are going to be better for your cognitive
performance that can help, I guess, with that gut bacteria?
Yeah.
Yep.
So there are certain pre-bodies.
If you look online, and again, it's a huge topic.
There are certain prebiotic foods and even something like green banana flower is apparently
a prebiotic food.
It tastes horrific.
But I'm saying that.
And there are certain things that you can do to your food, like even just as simple
as cooking it in a little bit of quality oil and letting it cool.
These are your starches, your resistant starches.
And there's a little rice trick to make it lower GI and more beneficial for your good
bacteria by putting a little bit of coconut oil and cooking it with the evaporation method
rather than how a lot of us, we boil our rice and then tip it into the colander.
Yes.
You're better off Googling the evaporation method and using a really good quality, maybe
organic basmati, putting in a good glop, like a tablespoon of coconut oil while it's in
the boiling stage.
Then, you know, you turn it way down and put the lid on and that oil infuses into the rice
and you've got to cool it off.
So this is where it's good to cook it the night before or whatever, have leftovers and
then have it the next day and it changes the consistency of the starches.
See all these little tips and tricks and it makes a big impact.
Yes.
So, you know, sugar and high carb, high crappy carb, I would say, you know, like your sugars
and your lollies and your deep fried foods and your bad oils.
I'm a big believer in good oils like your beautiful organic olive oil and your coconut
oil and even GI and grass-fed butter.
Those kinds of oils and avocado oils and your omega-3s, they're the oils to be eating and
your body needs them and they reduce inflammation.
We haven't even started talking about inflammation yet, but inflammation is massively associated
with trauma and stressful moments and gut health or ill health and, you know, things
like gluten and dairy.
Who doesn't love a massive binge on toast when you've had a stressful whatever, but
it's the worst thing you can do to your gut and gluten in general for a lot of people
with trauma is quite a disaster, unfortunately, because your gut is already in a little bit
of an inflamed state.
Gluten the way it is these days in modern, you know, like your crappy breads and stuff
like that.
It's a complete disaster for not only your gut bacteria.
That's such a shame.
It's nothing better than a crusty French roll.
And dairy.
Yes.
And croissants.
I miss croissants.
Yeah.
So just on that note, so short-chain fatty acids have the power to cross blood-brain
barrier where they can impact the brain structure and function.
And I read that on life science dot com that there was links to Alzheimer's and Parkinson's
and multiple sclerosis and depressive disorders.
So those oils you're talking about, do they contain those short-chain fatty acids?
You talking about things like trans fatty acids?
Yes, that's right.
One of the biggest implicators of those kinds of diseases is inflammation.
And if you take in the wrong oils, I'm talking to you canola oil, your deep fried, cotton
seed oil, all of those oils, I've got to be careful what I say because I start getting
very passionate and sweary.
All of those oils are disgusting for us and they can cause horrific inflammation, not
just in our gut, but in our brain as well.
And our brain needs the good oils to feed the myelin sheath.
So the myelin sheath which surrounds the nerve itself helps to feed and nurture the nerve
and helps also with the signal as it passes down the nerve axon.
So if you don't have a healthy myelin sheath, your nerve system is just not going to work
no matter what.
And that myelin sheath is nurtured by your good fats.
And I just want to also say that if you've got leaky gut, which is because of inflammation
in the gut which damages the gut membrane, that area, the mucous membrane basically kind
of comes from the same point developmentally in the growing fetus back when it's an embryo.
And the blood brain barrier is kind of from that same tissue originally, primordially.
So if you've got, and this is a new kind of thing, if you look up the science of it, it's
quite new.
If you've got leaky gut, and I know that's not necessarily considered a thing in conventional
science, but if you've got damaged gut tissue, you've also likely got compromised blood brain
barrier which lets in too much into the brain itself.
So that's another thing to consider with gut health.
You want to make sure you've got really good gut health and your enterocytes lining the
gut are like little bounces stopping all the things that are inappropriate from getting
in.
So if those bounces have too much space between them, this is what's kind of considered leaky
gut where you're getting things that are too big leaking in.
You got leaky gut, you got leaky blood brain barrier, you're eating crappy fats, you're
incorporating those fats, those trans and crappy fats into your cells and into your
brain tissue and it's causing inflammation.
So just quickly because we need to wrap up, if you have been on that path and say brain
barrier has been damaged, is there a way to then fix it?
I guess is a simple wording.
Yeah, it all starts in the gut and it all starts with gut health.
Sometimes it means living in a really boring way by cutting out a whole bunch of stuff.
Alcohol, for example, destroys gut function by destroying the tight junctions they're
called between the enterocytes of the gut.
So alcohol is a disaster going off a whole bunch of foods and this is where certain testing
can come in to see what kind of foods a person reacts to as well, but also bringing down
that fight flight response so that your gut is working properly.
Looking at parasites and seeing if there's any parasites that have been opportunistic
parasites that have come in.
Also making sure your nutrients are there properly.
A lot of people don't absorb nutrients and our food is quite depleted.
So making sure you've got enough magnesium in quality supplements, making sure you've
got all of those trace minerals that allow your body to make all of the digestive enzymes,
making sure your stomach acids there properly.
There's a whole lot of things you can do for that to improve gut function and to improve
also adrenal function.
Yeah, it's all connected.
I'm going to get going and go and find my magnesium.
No, genuinely though, thank you, it's been really informative.
Yeah, thanks.
It really is such a big topic to try and get your head around, but it's huge.
It's a great start.
So hopefully it's helped someone to be able to break it down a little bit and get some
value and to be able to help them improve their own lives.
So thank you again.
No worries.
Thanks, Quinn.
If you'd like to hear more from Penny, I'll leave the web link in the show notes.
I'm Quinn Carnegie and I hope you enjoyed this week's episode of Manifestation, Motivation
and Passion.
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Thanks again.