WEBVTT 00:00:09.900 --> 00:00:12.640 Welcome to the Interior Design Podcast. I'm Hayley 00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:15.060 Roy, a commercial interior designer with a passion 00:00:15.060 --> 00:00:17.879 for creating beautiful functional spaces. Over 00:00:17.879 --> 00:00:20.179 the years, I've worked on a variety of projects 00:00:20.179 --> 00:00:22.760 and have accumulated a wealth of knowledge, which 00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:25.399 I'm excited to share with you. I started this 00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:27.839 podcast because I believe in the power of interior 00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:31.219 design. So much of what we need to know as designers, 00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:34.229 you won't learn in a classroom. Whether you're 00:00:34.229 --> 00:00:37.210 an aspiring designer, tackling your home project, 00:00:37.549 --> 00:00:41.409 or a seasoned pro, this podcast is for you. Season 00:00:41.409 --> 00:00:43.549 two is here, and I couldn't be more thrilled 00:00:43.549 --> 00:00:46.210 to kick things off with some fresh energy and 00:00:46.210 --> 00:00:48.950 exciting changes. This season, I'm joined by 00:00:48.950 --> 00:00:52.250 not one, but two incredible co -hosts, Hannah 00:00:52.250 --> 00:00:55.509 Denny and Scarlett Mallett. Together, we're diving 00:00:55.509 --> 00:00:58.170 deeper into the world of design to bring you 00:00:58.170 --> 00:01:01.429 more perspectives, lively debates, and all the 00:01:01.429 --> 00:01:04.370 tips and tricks you need to thrive. We're here 00:01:04.370 --> 00:01:06.569 to offer practical advice, discuss the latest 00:01:06.569 --> 00:01:10.489 trends and give you unfiltered, real -world insights. 00:01:11.390 --> 00:01:14.049 Expect honest conversations, a bit of humour 00:01:14.049 --> 00:01:17.590 and maybe even the occasional strong opinion 00:01:17.590 --> 00:01:21.390 and language. Remember, if it's not fun, we're 00:01:21.390 --> 00:01:23.989 not doing it. And if you're a sound editor looking 00:01:23.989 --> 00:01:27.120 for a fun collaboration, let us know. We'd love 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:29.219 to have you on board. Thanks for tuning in to 00:01:29.219 --> 00:01:32.379 season two of the Interior Design Podcast. Hello 00:01:32.379 --> 00:01:37.500 and welcome to the Grieve Then Achieve and the 00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:41.760 Interior Design Podcast. We are collaborating. 00:01:41.819 --> 00:01:45.140 Oh my God, I'm so excited. This is cat nuts. 00:01:46.349 --> 00:01:49.269 Kate. Nuds. I call you Kat. I know. It doesn't 00:01:49.269 --> 00:01:51.510 matter. It's actually Catherine, but that's far 00:01:51.510 --> 00:01:53.090 too long. No one ever calls me that. This is 00:01:53.090 --> 00:01:57.409 Catherine. She's in trouble now. Catherine. This 00:01:57.409 --> 00:02:02.250 is Catherine. And Catherine is a grief counsellor. 00:02:02.250 --> 00:02:03.930 Well, you're about to be, aren't you? Yes. You're 00:02:03.930 --> 00:02:05.790 about to graduate. Yeah. So I'm a grief coach 00:02:05.790 --> 00:02:09.310 at the moment, but soon to be a integrative counsellor. 00:02:09.310 --> 00:02:11.870 But I will be solely focusing on bereavement 00:02:11.870 --> 00:02:16.439 and loss. So Kate and I. Kat, I don't know what 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:19.319 to call you now. Kat and I met at college when 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:22.000 we were 17, 18. I think I was 17, you were 18. 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:24.259 Yes, I swear. And we were both older, weren't 00:02:24.259 --> 00:02:26.770 we? I've deferred a year and you've deferred 00:02:26.770 --> 00:02:29.289 two years. Yeah. And we went and did a media 00:02:29.289 --> 00:02:32.770 studies course. We did. We were doing this. I 00:02:32.770 --> 00:02:36.409 know, right? 20 odd years ago. I know. And I 00:02:36.409 --> 00:02:38.189 think that's one of the reasons why we've both 00:02:38.189 --> 00:02:40.250 now got podcasts because we've got, we had that 00:02:40.250 --> 00:02:42.250 experience and now we're kind of like, we're 00:02:42.250 --> 00:02:45.509 going back to that. Yeah. And I think it's like, 00:02:45.530 --> 00:02:47.870 it's so cool. I was so excited about kind of 00:02:47.870 --> 00:02:49.590 getting together with you to do it because it's 00:02:49.590 --> 00:02:51.469 like, oh my God, I feel like we're back. We've 00:02:51.469 --> 00:02:56.599 gone 20 years back. We're 17 again. Yeah, I don't 00:02:56.599 --> 00:02:58.580 think I want to be 17 again. But I mean, I never 00:02:58.580 --> 00:03:00.020 did anything with the media studies, but now 00:03:00.020 --> 00:03:01.539 I feel like, you know, it wasn't a complete waste 00:03:01.539 --> 00:03:03.319 of two years. So what we're going to do today 00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:07.479 is we're going to talk about grieving meets home 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:09.860 decor interior design. I've learned a whole load 00:03:09.860 --> 00:03:11.919 of things from Kate. Tell us how you got into 00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:15.819 being a grief coach counsellor. Yes, well, yes, 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:18.280 I was a recruiter for many, many years, so quite 00:03:18.280 --> 00:03:22.800 a different background. But then my mum had cancer 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:28.340 and I watched her die, basically. And I had just 00:03:28.340 --> 00:03:31.039 the worst grief experience. It was so unexpected. 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:34.590 I was absolutely battered by grief. It was like 00:03:34.590 --> 00:03:37.050 a tidal wave and it changed every part of me. 00:03:37.389 --> 00:03:39.990 It changed what I wanted to do for a living. 00:03:40.189 --> 00:03:42.810 It knocked my confidence. It literally changed 00:03:42.810 --> 00:03:45.789 me. And the doctor, I went to the doctor about 00:03:45.789 --> 00:03:46.810 it because I just I thought there was something 00:03:46.810 --> 00:03:49.729 wrong with me because it was it was sort of continuing. 00:03:50.030 --> 00:03:52.009 You know, I thought we had her funeral and then 00:03:52.009 --> 00:03:53.849 I just expected everything to be fine again. 00:03:53.930 --> 00:03:56.310 And I thought I'd go back to work. And but that 00:03:56.310 --> 00:03:59.189 didn't happen. And so I went to the doctor and 00:03:59.189 --> 00:04:02.129 they gave me antidepressants. And I just wish 00:04:02.129 --> 00:04:05.069 they'd said to me, Kate, you're grieving. And 00:04:05.069 --> 00:04:07.530 I had these antidepressants and it wasn't what 00:04:07.530 --> 00:04:08.870 I wanted. I didn't really want to go down that 00:04:08.870 --> 00:04:12.169 route. Did you take them? No. I was going to 00:04:12.169 --> 00:04:13.430 and then, oh, I was humming and hawing about 00:04:13.430 --> 00:04:15.870 it and I didn't know what to do. And then I started 00:04:15.870 --> 00:04:19.829 to look into grief. And I just started to think, 00:04:19.889 --> 00:04:22.730 like, what am I going through? I think I started 00:04:22.730 --> 00:04:25.790 to Google bereavement and grief. And then all 00:04:25.790 --> 00:04:27.949 these symptoms came up and I was like, wow, why 00:04:27.949 --> 00:04:31.110 is no one talking about this? Like, it changed 00:04:31.110 --> 00:04:34.839 every part of me. I watched other members of 00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:36.480 the family kind of all went back to work and 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:38.259 they sort of got on with their lives. And I was 00:04:38.259 --> 00:04:40.699 like, why am I different? What's happening to 00:04:40.699 --> 00:04:43.959 me? And then I realised, doing more and more 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:45.759 grief work and reading more books and talking 00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:47.639 to more and more people about their own grieving 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:50.319 experiences, that it's just so different for 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:52.639 everybody. And I was just like, but this is going 00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:54.319 to happen to everybody, right? We're all going 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:56.139 to have some sort of loss in our lives. And there's 00:04:56.139 --> 00:04:58.839 so much loss. There's pet loss, baby loss, divorce, 00:04:59.139 --> 00:05:04.319 health loss, finances. But we don't talk about 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:06.019 the grieving process that we then go through. 00:05:06.420 --> 00:05:08.740 And I was like, no, no, I've got to do something 00:05:08.740 --> 00:05:11.860 about this. I just never wanted anybody to feel 00:05:11.860 --> 00:05:15.439 the way I felt. It was so unexpected. The grief 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:18.699 was so unexpected. I just didn't equate it to 00:05:18.699 --> 00:05:21.060 grief, which sounds bizarre. But it was only 00:05:21.060 --> 00:05:24.740 when I started to kind of really learn about 00:05:24.740 --> 00:05:26.800 grief, I just thought, I need to do something 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:29.500 about this. I was already career coaching, so 00:05:29.500 --> 00:05:33.100 I did quite a lot of education around grief and 00:05:33.100 --> 00:05:36.019 then moved over into grief coaching. But I think 00:05:36.019 --> 00:05:38.920 grief coaching is quite different, very different 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:41.000 from counselling. And actually people, when they're 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:43.100 first bereaved or going through a loss, they 00:05:43.100 --> 00:05:46.839 potentially need more counselling. and then perhaps 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:48.819 further down the line, and with some counselling 00:05:48.819 --> 00:05:50.579 when they're in a different space, then coaching. 00:05:50.740 --> 00:05:52.259 So I would like to be able to take people on 00:05:52.259 --> 00:05:54.800 a whole journey with me so that when they need 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:56.519 counselling, they can have me as their counsellor, 00:05:56.519 --> 00:05:58.579 but also when they're ready for coaching, we 00:05:58.579 --> 00:06:01.120 can do coaching as well. So it's a very long 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:03.839 -winded reply, but it's been such a journey. 00:06:03.939 --> 00:06:06.819 I've seen you go through it, and it's actually 00:06:06.819 --> 00:06:09.500 so nice that you're helping other people, and 00:06:09.500 --> 00:06:11.759 you're so enjoying it, aren't you? It sounds 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:15.029 weird, I know, but... I feel so privileged to 00:06:15.029 --> 00:06:17.930 have people sit in front of me and tell me about 00:06:17.930 --> 00:06:20.490 their grief journeys. And it might be from, you 00:06:20.490 --> 00:06:22.629 know, a month ago, it might be from 10, 20 years 00:06:22.629 --> 00:06:26.850 ago. But it's such a privilege to sit with someone 00:06:26.850 --> 00:06:30.310 who is grieving and to walk that journey with 00:06:30.310 --> 00:06:34.970 them. It just, I am so... I feel so lucky to 00:06:34.970 --> 00:06:36.430 have found this, even though it was through quite 00:06:36.430 --> 00:06:38.810 tragic circumstances. I feel like something good 00:06:38.810 --> 00:06:41.189 came out of something that was pretty horrendous. 00:06:41.269 --> 00:06:44.250 How did you get into interior design? I think 00:06:44.250 --> 00:06:48.970 my interior design journey started when I worked 00:06:48.970 --> 00:06:50.889 on yachts. I worked on super yachts when I was 00:06:50.889 --> 00:06:55.110 younger and I used to help, not necessarily interior 00:06:55.110 --> 00:06:58.490 decorate, but I used to arrange flowers and arrange 00:06:58.490 --> 00:07:01.329 table dressings and things like that. And I got 00:07:01.329 --> 00:07:03.810 to know... the owners of the yacht and i got 00:07:03.810 --> 00:07:06.310 to know their taste and i watched them design 00:07:06.310 --> 00:07:09.310 certain elements of the yacht and i think that 00:07:09.310 --> 00:07:12.209 really inspired me and i was i was doing a lot 00:07:12.209 --> 00:07:16.129 of cleaning which i love i love cleaning um i 00:07:16.129 --> 00:07:19.889 was kind of like just really you know dressing 00:07:19.889 --> 00:07:22.750 everything you know um i suppose styling really 00:07:22.750 --> 00:07:25.029 yeah we were doing a lot of flower arranging 00:07:25.029 --> 00:07:27.870 things like that and and i i just loved it and 00:07:27.870 --> 00:07:31.959 i came back to the uk um after three years traveling 00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:34.899 and then went to i went to work for my dad and 00:07:34.899 --> 00:07:36.879 my dad owned a commercial interior fit out company 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:39.800 so it's sort of almost i mean i'd come from like 00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:42.019 a six star and i'm kind of like how to lower 00:07:42.019 --> 00:07:44.420 my standards a little bit um and less sunshine 00:07:44.420 --> 00:07:48.180 i suppose as well um and so we were selling furniture 00:07:48.180 --> 00:07:51.730 sort of you know a lot of low -end products but 00:07:51.730 --> 00:07:55.170 I was meeting clients I was helping space plan 00:07:55.170 --> 00:07:56.810 I was helping doing mood boards and things like 00:07:56.810 --> 00:07:59.110 that so I was kind of doing that kind of thing 00:07:59.110 --> 00:08:01.550 I loved it and towards the end when I worked 00:08:01.550 --> 00:08:04.740 for dad I knew that I wanted to have my own business. 00:08:04.980 --> 00:08:06.639 I didn't really know what I wanted to do, but 00:08:06.639 --> 00:08:08.500 I knew that I loved interior design and I'd done 00:08:08.500 --> 00:08:10.839 interior design courses. So I thought, well, 00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:12.720 it was kind of the natural progression and I 00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:14.480 ended up sort of project managing as well because 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:16.540 I'd been a managing director before. It was kind 00:08:16.540 --> 00:08:18.519 of like a natural thing for me to do that as 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:20.279 well because I like making things happen and 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:23.339 I'm a bit of a control freak. So yeah, so then 00:08:23.339 --> 00:08:28.879 after our business shrunk in COVID, I was kind 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:31.850 of like missing... I was missing teaching people 00:08:31.850 --> 00:08:34.309 because I had a much bigger team before. And 00:08:34.309 --> 00:08:37.990 then my son got diagnosed with ADHD. And I found 00:08:37.990 --> 00:08:40.269 this podcast called The Adult's ADHD Podcast, 00:08:40.409 --> 00:08:43.710 which I absolutely binged listened to. And I 00:08:43.710 --> 00:08:46.750 loved them because they were so real and so normal 00:08:46.750 --> 00:08:49.690 in my eyes anyway, because I think I've got ADHD 00:08:49.690 --> 00:08:53.379 too. Well, I know I have. I listened to this 00:08:53.379 --> 00:08:55.580 and what I got from each episode was education. 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:58.460 I learned something from every episode. I learned 00:08:58.460 --> 00:08:59.980 something really, really good that I could take 00:08:59.980 --> 00:09:03.440 away and use in my everyday life. And I was like, 00:09:03.460 --> 00:09:05.460 oh my God. And after I'd sort of binge listened 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:07.360 to this, got diagnosed with ADHD and decided 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:10.519 that I needed to maybe focus on my interior design 00:09:10.519 --> 00:09:14.500 career again outside of my workplace or like 00:09:14.500 --> 00:09:18.379 on the road, I decided that I wanted to find 00:09:18.379 --> 00:09:20.080 an interior design podcast that was going to 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:23.480 teach me like this other one. could i find it 00:09:23.480 --> 00:09:27.480 no so then i i thought well okay let's do it 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:30.039 and obviously the media studies train well i 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:31.919 only lasted three months in my media studies 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:34.519 course but you and you did the whole course i 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:37.620 managed two whole years yeah yeah but i loved 00:09:37.620 --> 00:09:40.080 that like that whole kind of we were kind of 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:42.460 microphones in hand and yeah we were we had a 00:09:42.460 --> 00:09:44.990 little tape recorder that we used to carry around 00:09:44.990 --> 00:09:46.830 I mean this is all a little bit more technical 00:09:46.830 --> 00:09:50.009 than what we had but yeah it was it was fun it 00:09:50.009 --> 00:09:51.730 was interviewing people and it was learning about 00:09:51.730 --> 00:09:53.629 people and it was being educated by other people 00:09:53.629 --> 00:09:55.850 I think that was my that's why I loved it so 00:09:55.850 --> 00:09:57.029 much because it was listening to people's lived 00:09:57.029 --> 00:09:59.870 experiences you know full circle 20 years later 00:09:59.870 --> 00:10:02.110 that's what I do it just happens to be from a 00:10:02.110 --> 00:10:03.990 grief perspective but I remember you telling 00:10:03.990 --> 00:10:06.090 me about that podcast like every episode you 00:10:06.090 --> 00:10:07.509 would call me blah you need to listen to this 00:10:07.509 --> 00:10:08.649 because they're talking about this and they're 00:10:08.649 --> 00:10:13.720 talking might listen to it. I don't know if I 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:18.039 ever did. But I know you loved it. You were obsessed. 00:10:18.299 --> 00:10:20.779 I loved it. But it was just because they were 00:10:20.779 --> 00:10:22.840 so real. And I think that was one of the things 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:24.720 I wanted to do with the interior design podcast 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:27.860 is not make it, you know, a lot of the interior 00:10:27.860 --> 00:10:30.480 design podcasts that I've listened to are really 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.220 good, but they tend to be very kind of interviewing 00:10:33.220 --> 00:10:36.000 or like, oh, this is a project that you've done 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:38.100 or like talk about someone's career, which is 00:10:38.100 --> 00:10:41.220 great. But I really wanted to teach people about 00:10:41.220 --> 00:10:43.940 interior design, you know, so I wanted to teach 00:10:43.940 --> 00:10:46.139 people about time. and about fabric specification 00:10:46.139 --> 00:10:48.799 and how to do this and you know like and and 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:51.659 i i we've got a podcast coming up soon about 00:10:51.659 --> 00:10:54.120 cdm which i feel really strongly about because 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:56.679 a lot of residential interior designers in the 00:10:56.679 --> 00:11:00.679 uk don't know that they need to follow the cdm 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:02.440 regulations which is construction design management 00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:05.559 it's all very boring geeky stuff which interior 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:07.860 designers don't really want to do but it's the 00:11:07.860 --> 00:11:09.820 law and a lot of interior designers that i've 00:11:09.820 --> 00:11:12.690 met who are in resi don't know that and it's 00:11:12.690 --> 00:11:15.389 that kind of thing like I've got so much in my 00:11:15.389 --> 00:11:17.909 brain that I know I want to be able to share 00:11:17.909 --> 00:11:20.029 that and I also want to be able to learn so every 00:11:20.029 --> 00:11:22.470 guest that I come in I mean I've listened to 00:11:22.470 --> 00:11:24.970 your podcast as well and it's so lovely because 00:11:24.970 --> 00:11:27.809 you know you've got these people who are sharing 00:11:27.809 --> 00:11:30.509 their experiences and you know I'm like sitting 00:11:30.509 --> 00:11:33.149 there I haven't lost either of my parents and 00:11:33.149 --> 00:11:35.190 some people are talking about losing their parents 00:11:35.190 --> 00:11:38.870 and I think there's this thing with your podcast 00:11:38.870 --> 00:11:41.909 where People are being really, really honest 00:11:41.909 --> 00:11:45.889 and open and actually talking about how they 00:11:45.889 --> 00:11:48.279 feel about losing somebody. And I'm like, oh, 00:11:48.299 --> 00:11:49.919 my God, I'm going to have to go through this. 00:11:49.980 --> 00:11:52.059 But actually, knowing some of the things that 00:11:52.059 --> 00:11:53.919 I've heard on your podcast, I kind of feel a 00:11:53.919 --> 00:11:55.639 little bit more, not that I'm going to ever be 00:11:55.639 --> 00:11:57.100 prepared to lose my parents, but I feel a little 00:11:57.100 --> 00:11:59.240 bit like, oh, OK, that's what's going to happen. 00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:01.320 So I know what's going to happen. That was my 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:03.279 problem with it. I just wasn't prepared for grief 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:05.840 because I didn't really understand the grieving 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:07.440 process and what I would go through. And I didn't 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:10.279 realize it would affect my body, my mind, every 00:12:10.279 --> 00:12:13.360 part of me. just being able to have these conversations 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:15.840 with people. And, you know, we are quite open 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:17.779 and we're all very vulnerable, but that's the 00:12:17.779 --> 00:12:19.620 point of the podcast. And I always make sure 00:12:19.620 --> 00:12:21.179 that the opening part of the podcast is that 00:12:21.179 --> 00:12:22.559 if you're not, you know, happy to talk about 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:24.139 death and dying, then please don't listen because 00:12:24.139 --> 00:12:27.299 we do talk about it. But there's, you know, there's 00:12:27.299 --> 00:12:29.500 suicide. There's, I think I've said there's baby 00:12:29.500 --> 00:12:31.980 loss. There's, you know, parents dying. There's 00:12:31.980 --> 00:12:34.980 also losing parents to dementia. So you've got 00:12:34.980 --> 00:12:36.559 the anticipatory grief where you're losing them. 00:12:37.220 --> 00:12:39.940 before you actually physically lose them as well. 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:43.059 And there's just so many conversations that just, 00:12:43.220 --> 00:12:44.820 you know, other people out there are going to 00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:47.240 go through this. And if we're not talking about 00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:49.919 it, you feel like an island. You just feel like 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:52.500 you're the only person and that you just don't 00:12:52.500 --> 00:12:54.600 really understand what's going on. So there is 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:57.840 that education piece to try and help people know 00:12:57.840 --> 00:12:59.679 that they're not alone, I think, really. And 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:01.039 we're not, you know, we're all going through 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:03.519 the same shit, aren't we, really? I mean, people 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:06.389 just, I mean, I think... now compared to when 00:13:06.389 --> 00:13:08.330 we were young people talk about things a lot 00:13:08.330 --> 00:13:09.809 more we were talking about this earlier when 00:13:09.809 --> 00:13:13.429 we like when we were young be like you know children 00:13:13.429 --> 00:13:16.049 should be seen and not heard and now now my son's 00:13:16.049 --> 00:13:18.049 got a little pillow with all his emotions on 00:13:18.049 --> 00:13:19.970 it you know we were encouraging him to talk about 00:13:19.970 --> 00:13:22.330 what emotion it is he's feeling and things like 00:13:22.330 --> 00:13:26.090 that which is lovely hooray um we were also saying 00:13:26.090 --> 00:13:29.350 that that makes everyone woke So, like, what 00:13:29.350 --> 00:13:31.850 do we want? Do we want work? Or do we want, like, 00:13:31.909 --> 00:13:36.090 to be heard? What do we want? Yeah. But, no, 00:13:36.210 --> 00:13:38.750 I think that's the thing as well. Understanding 00:13:38.750 --> 00:13:41.049 your feelings. You don't necessarily always have 00:13:41.049 --> 00:13:42.730 to talk about them if you don't want to. But 00:13:42.730 --> 00:13:44.990 understanding what you're feeling and sitting 00:13:44.990 --> 00:13:47.669 with it. And that's part of what we talk about 00:13:47.669 --> 00:13:50.789 a lot in grief. It's quite alien for us to sit 00:13:50.789 --> 00:13:53.289 in sadness or anger or whatever's coming up. 00:13:53.549 --> 00:13:56.269 But, actually, sometimes you've got to do that. 00:13:56.370 --> 00:13:59.039 And it's quite hard. Yeah, that was one of the 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:01.220 things that I learned when I had some counselling 00:14:01.220 --> 00:14:05.399 a few years ago. I was talking about, so my son's 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:08.639 father was very absent when he was younger. And 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:15.399 I always struggled with the idea of how am I 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:19.039 going to help him not get hurt by this? And I 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:21.559 remember my counsellor saying, you can't. He's 00:14:21.559 --> 00:14:23.559 going to be hurt by this, but you just need to 00:14:23.559 --> 00:14:26.120 sit with him in his pain and be there for him. 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:29.710 And then... you know that's the only thing you 00:14:29.710 --> 00:14:31.629 can do and i suppose that's the same with grief 00:14:31.629 --> 00:14:34.409 yeah you just have to sit in it you have to recognize 00:14:34.409 --> 00:14:38.289 it sit in it feel it feel it but there's some 00:14:38.289 --> 00:14:39.809 you know there's there's there's some things 00:14:39.809 --> 00:14:43.370 that we can do to be more resilient um But it's, 00:14:43.370 --> 00:14:48.389 you know, I ate my feelings. I didn't recognise 00:14:48.389 --> 00:14:50.169 my feelings. I didn't know what they were. I 00:14:50.169 --> 00:14:51.970 didn't understand them. And I just ate and drank 00:14:51.970 --> 00:14:53.830 my way through. And that was my coping mechanism. 00:14:53.830 --> 00:14:56.309 And it didn't necessarily work. But we all have 00:14:56.309 --> 00:14:59.409 our own different coping mechanisms. But the 00:14:59.409 --> 00:15:02.129 fact that we're sitting here talking today about 00:15:02.129 --> 00:15:04.110 it, how different is that? I mean, it's just 00:15:04.110 --> 00:15:06.690 brilliant. It's amazing. It is. So we've got 00:15:06.690 --> 00:15:09.129 cosy blankets. Yes, we have. And we've got green. 00:15:10.029 --> 00:15:12.549 And we're going to talk about grief and we're 00:15:12.549 --> 00:15:14.830 also going to be talking about how we can make 00:15:14.830 --> 00:15:19.070 ourselves feel better by the things that we surround 00:15:19.070 --> 00:15:22.080 ourselves at home. Yes. So one of the things 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.100 I wanted to ask you about before we start talking 00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:26.679 about interior design, because obviously that's 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:29.440 what I want to talk about. This is a world so 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:31.519 different. You talk about interior design. I 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:34.120 shut down. I buy new builds. So I have white 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:36.559 walls. I don't have to think about it. We could 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:38.240 not be more different. And yet we've been friends 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:40.720 for 20 odd years. I know, right? It's rad, isn't 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:44.899 it? But I think there's something that you said 00:15:44.899 --> 00:15:46.980 to me earlier about the five stages of grief. 00:15:47.320 --> 00:15:50.919 I feel like... there's this, not stigma, but 00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:53.679 there's this thing out there about the five stages 00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:57.340 of grief and actually it's not grief, is it? 00:15:57.419 --> 00:15:59.799 Can you tell us, can you tell our listeners about 00:15:59.799 --> 00:16:02.600 it? When I first started, you know, like what 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:04.440 is wrong with me, sort of started looking at 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:06.500 grief, it's one of the first things that comes 00:16:06.500 --> 00:16:10.220 up, the five stages of grief. And I started to 00:16:10.220 --> 00:16:12.120 look into it and I was like, oh, okay, but I'm 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:14.360 not really angry. I can't really be angry that 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:17.100 she's died and I can't be in denial because I, 00:16:17.139 --> 00:16:19.929 you know. I was there. I was part of it. What 00:16:19.929 --> 00:16:22.789 are the five stages of grief that people always 00:16:22.789 --> 00:16:26.549 hear about? So you've got, I can't remember the 00:16:26.549 --> 00:16:28.769 exact order, but there's denial, there's bargaining, 00:16:28.929 --> 00:16:34.710 anger, and the final one is acceptance. There's 00:16:34.710 --> 00:16:38.769 another one in there. But the five stages of 00:16:38.769 --> 00:16:40.149 grief, I think, originally came from Elizabeth 00:16:40.149 --> 00:16:43.720 Kubler -Ross. who was in palliative care, I believe, 00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:46.960 and the stages were actually the stages that 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:49.720 somebody who was dying would go through, which, 00:16:49.820 --> 00:16:52.320 once I learned this, it made much more sense 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:54.159 to me because you would want to try and bargain 00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:55.840 your way out of it. Of course you would, and 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:57.480 perhaps you would potentially be trying to deny 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:00.720 it as well and eventually get to acceptance. 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:03.940 So I think the five stages can be quite helpful, 00:17:04.039 --> 00:17:06.400 but actually also not because I read them as 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:11.039 if, like, well, if I'm not angry, then... Does 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:12.480 that mean I'm not grieving properly or should 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:15.759 I be bargaining? And I found it all a bit confusing. 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:17.720 These are the absolute things you're going to 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:21.019 go through and it's going to be almost in quite 00:17:21.019 --> 00:17:23.039 a linear process. But of course, as we know with 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.339 grief, nothing is linear. So you can have all 00:17:26.339 --> 00:17:28.579 these emotions in a minute, let alone anything 00:17:28.579 --> 00:17:32.039 else. So it was quite interesting to read about, 00:17:32.140 --> 00:17:34.460 but it does make more sense for those that are 00:17:34.460 --> 00:17:36.339 dying that perhaps would go through those stages. 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:42.250 So what could you expect then? Is it sort of 00:17:42.250 --> 00:17:45.210 like opening Pandora's box? Yeah, literally, 00:17:45.369 --> 00:17:50.789 literally, because... That was the right thing 00:17:50.789 --> 00:17:52.549 to say there. Pandora's box is supposed to be 00:17:52.549 --> 00:17:55.609 good. It's not Pandora's box, is it? Well, you 00:17:55.609 --> 00:17:58.650 just open up, you're going into a chasm. I mean, 00:17:58.670 --> 00:18:01.809 you can have... any emotion and like I say that 00:18:01.809 --> 00:18:04.970 every emotion can come within seconds I mean 00:18:04.970 --> 00:18:07.849 you know I am three years down the line and I 00:18:07.849 --> 00:18:09.829 was in WH Smith the other day and I thought oh 00:18:09.829 --> 00:18:12.730 I'll get mum that crossword book no you won't 00:18:12.730 --> 00:18:15.690 Kate and and it's it's it's things like that 00:18:15.690 --> 00:18:18.869 that you can't you don't expect like I was you 00:18:18.869 --> 00:18:21.230 know doing my day going about my day nipping 00:18:21.230 --> 00:18:24.250 into WH Smith for something and then I'm in floods 00:18:24.250 --> 00:18:27.109 of tears. And I think that is almost the problem 00:18:27.109 --> 00:18:28.569 with grief and the bit that we don't really talk 00:18:28.569 --> 00:18:31.369 about is the emotions come so unexpectedly. It 00:18:31.369 --> 00:18:36.289 might be a sound, a smell, a memory. The emotions 00:18:36.289 --> 00:18:39.970 that you have come out of nowhere. And how do 00:18:39.970 --> 00:18:42.609 you navigate that? How do you cope with that? 00:18:42.730 --> 00:18:46.119 Because it's really quite... I didn't particularly 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:48.940 want to be in AA Smith in tears, so I wasn't 00:18:48.940 --> 00:18:51.359 expecting to be. And that's the thing about grief. 00:18:51.500 --> 00:18:53.720 But it's also taking the pressure off yourself 00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:56.519 and going, do you know what? It's okay. I'm grieving. 00:18:56.740 --> 00:18:58.880 I'm going to be grieving forever. Unfortunately, 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:01.380 she's gone forever, and therefore I'm going to 00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:03.339 be grieving forever. And it's that acceptance. 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:05.799 It's going, it doesn't matter. Yes, you are. 00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:08.880 And I've been through counselling. I've had some 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:12.769 great therapy, which has really helped me. I'm 00:19:12.769 --> 00:19:16.509 a big advocate for therapy, as we know. But it 00:19:16.509 --> 00:19:19.369 helped. But it's also just taking that pressure 00:19:19.369 --> 00:19:20.970 off your shoulders and going, do you know what, 00:19:20.990 --> 00:19:23.849 you're grieving, and that's okay. And I think 00:19:23.849 --> 00:19:25.190 a lot of people, we were talking about this, 00:19:25.230 --> 00:19:28.630 about what can you do at home, and if you are 00:19:28.630 --> 00:19:31.369 grieving, one of the things that a lot of people 00:19:31.369 --> 00:19:34.109 are doing is being quite insular, is what you 00:19:34.109 --> 00:19:36.349 said, isn't it? And I'm like, well, okay, if 00:19:36.349 --> 00:19:38.569 you're grieving about something and you're upset 00:19:38.569 --> 00:19:42.160 about something, and the most... and you're stuck 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:44.980 at home, I think the best thing you can do is 00:19:44.980 --> 00:19:48.480 get really cosy. Yes. And get, like... Yes, definitely. 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:50.640 Get some cosy blankets. Yeah. Make sure you've 00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:52.779 got lots of oxygen in the air. Yeah. And some 00:19:52.779 --> 00:19:55.740 real plants. Yeah. You know, look after yourself 00:19:55.740 --> 00:19:59.220 and, like, surround yourself with things that 00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:02.440 you love and that... And tactile. It's that... 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:05.420 It's the soft... This blanket is amazing, isn't 00:20:05.420 --> 00:20:09.619 it? Yeah, it is. It's so soft. It's that metaphorical 00:20:09.619 --> 00:20:11.759 hug. because you might be grieving on your own 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:13.359 you might not have anybody around you but if 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:16.259 you can have that that sort of that that softness 00:20:16.259 --> 00:20:19.779 and that coziness and and you know we do I certainly 00:20:19.779 --> 00:20:22.799 sat on the sofa and cried a lot and you get very 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:25.380 dehydrated because you are in tears the whole 00:20:25.380 --> 00:20:27.279 time and you don't think that you're necessarily 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:29.460 dehydrated but you need to keep your water intake 00:20:29.460 --> 00:20:33.720 up um but also I just you know I wanted something 00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:37.099 around me that was soft and warm and and was 00:20:37.099 --> 00:20:39.220 that hug that i wasn't getting from you know 00:20:39.220 --> 00:20:40.859 from a person but i was trying to get it in other 00:20:40.859 --> 00:20:45.180 ways yes i'm like really um because i've got 00:20:45.180 --> 00:20:49.339 adhd i've i've learned this in my 40s i'm quite 00:20:50.020 --> 00:20:53.500 sensory sensitive so I really like being comfortable 00:20:53.500 --> 00:20:56.660 so quite often I'll get dressed about four times 00:20:56.660 --> 00:20:59.119 in the morning my husband goes mad because I'm 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:01.279 like I'm not just not comfortable I need to be 00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:03.839 comfortable so I can imagine like well I mean 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:06.440 I've not lost a parent but I've grieved a relationship 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:09.960 and you know there's there's this this thing 00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:14.259 where for me I i always have like really cozy 00:21:14.259 --> 00:21:16.460 sofas i like to have a cozy sofa with lots of 00:21:16.460 --> 00:21:19.460 cushions and lots of blankets and like just getting 00:21:19.460 --> 00:21:21.640 under a blanket and being really warm and wearing 00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:25.160 really really cozy clothes um and just watching 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:27.480 your favorite movie and like just sitting and 00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:29.660 or even just sitting in front of the fire you 00:21:29.660 --> 00:21:32.059 know just being warm and cozy i think is really 00:21:32.059 --> 00:21:35.490 important yeah it is And plants are really important. 00:21:35.630 --> 00:21:38.690 Why do we buy flowers that die for somebody who 00:21:38.690 --> 00:21:40.849 is grieving? I've never really understood that. 00:21:40.970 --> 00:21:42.769 Here, have some flowers and in seven days' time 00:21:42.769 --> 00:21:45.650 they're going to be dead. That is not nice. But 00:21:45.650 --> 00:21:48.910 it's just something that we all do. Did you think 00:21:48.910 --> 00:21:51.210 about that when someone bought you flowers? Yeah, 00:21:51.329 --> 00:21:53.809 it sort of came from that and then obviously 00:21:53.809 --> 00:21:55.490 doing a lot around grief and I just thought, 00:21:55.569 --> 00:21:57.869 this is ridiculous. Because I wanted to give 00:21:57.869 --> 00:21:59.890 somebody something and in the end I gave them 00:21:59.890 --> 00:22:02.869 a plant because... I wanted them to keep, you 00:22:02.869 --> 00:22:05.609 know, to have something long term. And I went 00:22:05.609 --> 00:22:06.930 to get flowers and I thought, hang on a minute, 00:22:07.029 --> 00:22:08.910 they're going to die. A, they don't want to look 00:22:08.910 --> 00:22:11.049 after them because grief is overwhelming. The 00:22:11.049 --> 00:22:12.210 last thing you want to do is be worrying about 00:22:12.210 --> 00:22:14.349 whether you've changed the water in your flowers 00:22:14.349 --> 00:22:16.269 or whatever. And then they're going to die. And 00:22:16.269 --> 00:22:17.910 it's like, hang on a minute. But if you do want 00:22:17.910 --> 00:22:19.710 to buy someone flowers and they're grieving, 00:22:19.890 --> 00:22:22.750 you can buy dried flowers. Dried flowers last 00:22:22.750 --> 00:22:26.789 forever. I've got a little video actually that 00:22:26.789 --> 00:22:30.519 I've... Not put up yet, but I did some arranging 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:32.240 of dried flowers the other day and videoed it. 00:22:32.539 --> 00:22:35.779 But yeah, that's the perfect example of what 00:22:35.779 --> 00:22:39.880 you can do. I mean, plants create oxygen, but 00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:42.640 if you do want flowers, if you want to just brighten 00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:45.539 someone's day... And they, you know, put it in 00:22:45.539 --> 00:22:48.000 a vase. Then dried flowers are amazing. They 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.259 are. And I met somebody that was, I met her at 00:22:52.259 --> 00:22:54.039 a networking meeting and she does artificial 00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:56.240 flower arrangements. And as soon as she said 00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:59.240 artificial flowers, I was taken back to the 80s. 00:22:59.339 --> 00:23:02.599 Like those, you know, fireplace replacement, 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:05.880 artificial flowers, just collect dust. And when 00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:07.960 she said about it, she obviously saw my face 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:10.319 and she went, no, everyone does the same. And 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:12.079 then she bought them out. And I was like, that. 00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:14.799 they're artificial i couldn't believe it it was 00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:17.220 a lily and it was i would not have known it was 00:23:17.220 --> 00:23:19.700 artificial this is a bit of eucalyptus you would 00:23:19.700 --> 00:23:21.579 you would never know unless you get up close 00:23:21.579 --> 00:23:25.220 to it but yeah amazing so that's that's something 00:23:25.220 --> 00:23:27.779 that you could to give that that isn't necessarily 00:23:27.779 --> 00:23:31.039 then going to die yeah in a week's time i love 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:33.440 that i've never thought about that it's a weird 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:36.180 thing isn't it it's a very bizarre concept so 00:23:36.180 --> 00:23:43.119 um if you have lost someone and you're grieving 00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:45.960 them there's especially if someone's got older 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:49.160 or if they got sick there'll be a period of time 00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:53.440 where they wouldn't look themselves as you knew 00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:56.839 them so there'll be a period of time where you'll 00:23:56.839 --> 00:23:59.779 remember them in that way because they weren't 00:23:59.779 --> 00:24:03.599 well and i think it would be a really good thing 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:08.349 to have pictures of that person around you lots 00:24:08.349 --> 00:24:11.369 of them if you want to of the good times that 00:24:11.369 --> 00:24:13.789 you've had and the really amazing the most amazing 00:24:13.789 --> 00:24:15.990 parts of their life that you remember spending 00:24:15.990 --> 00:24:19.710 with them and having those next to your bed or 00:24:19.710 --> 00:24:22.349 you know if you want to say good night you know 00:24:22.349 --> 00:24:24.210 if you've lost your partner you'd probably want 00:24:24.210 --> 00:24:27.799 to do that um If you've lost your mum, you might 00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:29.079 want to have it in your living room or in your 00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:32.559 kitchen. Wherever you would have normally phoned 00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:34.980 your mum, I would phone my mum in the kitchen 00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:39.859 and go, Mum, how do I make a cake? What do I 00:24:39.859 --> 00:24:43.259 do? That's generally what I'm doing in the kitchen. 00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:47.220 So if I lost my mum, I think there would be a 00:24:47.220 --> 00:24:50.900 really prominent place in my kitchen for her. 00:24:51.019 --> 00:24:52.640 Do you know what I mean? So I think there's... 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.529 If you have... If you're not used to putting 00:24:56.529 --> 00:24:58.730 pictures on the walls, you can do anything. You 00:24:58.730 --> 00:25:02.269 can go to Tesco's and you can print out a canvas. 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:05.700 or your most favourite supermarket if you're 00:25:05.700 --> 00:25:07.480 in the US I don't think they have Tesco's but 00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:09.960 in the supermarkets in the UK you can actually 00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:12.799 order stuff online and you can order a canvas 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:16.079 for not a lot of money or you can print out a 00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:18.140 photograph and put it in your favourite frame 00:25:18.140 --> 00:25:21.200 or like what would say we're going with my mum 00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:24.400 sorry mum I really don't want you to die yet 00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:27.180 no no please don't but you know say we go with 00:25:27.180 --> 00:25:29.700 my mum my mum really loves crafting for example 00:25:29.700 --> 00:25:33.920 so I might make a little crafty page for her 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:35.819 and put it in a frame and put a photograph of 00:25:35.819 --> 00:25:37.200 her in the middle of it you know so it would 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.700 be like a tribute to that person and yeah it's 00:25:39.700 --> 00:25:42.039 a memorial place as well exactly and then flowers 00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:44.299 that they love and things like that you know 00:25:44.299 --> 00:25:47.440 obviously not ones that are going to die um but 00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:50.019 you know if you if you know i love eucalyptus 00:25:50.019 --> 00:25:52.599 when i'm dead everyone can remember me from eucalyptus 00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:54.720 i've always got eucalyptus in there so you know 00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:58.220 it's that kind of um association like those things 00:25:58.220 --> 00:26:02.769 that you remember them for have it around you 00:26:02.769 --> 00:26:05.109 yeah yeah make the cake that she gave you the 00:26:05.109 --> 00:26:07.130 recipe of that that's the thing and that there's 00:26:07.130 --> 00:26:09.509 we talk a lot about that in grief about how you 00:26:09.509 --> 00:26:12.869 can almost memorialize that person and they haven't 00:26:12.869 --> 00:26:14.650 gone because you're using their yorkshire pudding 00:26:14.650 --> 00:26:17.730 recipe or you're using their cake recipe and 00:26:17.730 --> 00:26:20.390 so they're always with you in some form they 00:26:20.390 --> 00:26:21.890 might not be physically with you but they are 00:26:21.890 --> 00:26:24.690 with you um but that is one tip you were talking 00:26:24.690 --> 00:26:28.549 about photos take photos of everything I wasn't 00:26:28.549 --> 00:26:32.329 a big, I didn't really take photos, but they're 00:26:32.329 --> 00:26:35.190 all you've got at the end. And now I take photos 00:26:35.190 --> 00:26:38.829 of everything because it's all you've got. And 00:26:38.829 --> 00:26:40.910 if you haven't got photos, and sometimes they 00:26:40.910 --> 00:26:43.569 trigger quite sad memories, but a lot of the 00:26:43.569 --> 00:26:45.210 time they can trigger some really lovely memories 00:26:45.210 --> 00:26:47.670 that you've completely forgotten about. So, yes, 00:26:47.750 --> 00:26:50.289 absolutely take photos. And you can get those 00:26:50.289 --> 00:26:52.089 tiles, can't you? You can make... Mixed tiles. 00:26:52.170 --> 00:26:54.089 Mixed tiles, yeah. You can do all sorts of things 00:26:54.089 --> 00:26:58.430 now to have memories on the wall or on the mantelpiece 00:26:58.430 --> 00:27:00.210 or on the table or whatever. Do you know, my 00:27:00.210 --> 00:27:01.990 ex -husband did something for his mum, which 00:27:01.990 --> 00:27:05.690 I thought was amazing, where he... I don't know 00:27:05.690 --> 00:27:08.029 where he got it from, but it was a big canvas 00:27:08.029 --> 00:27:11.289 and he got photographs of his mum, for his mum, 00:27:11.430 --> 00:27:14.289 and printed out lots and lots and lots of... 00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:16.259 all the photographs that he'd ever taken and 00:27:16.259 --> 00:27:18.099 he used to take a lot so I think it was like 00:27:18.099 --> 00:27:21.160 this massive canvas just with all her face on 00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:24.319 it and she loved it so much it was so many memories 00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:26.240 and you could just sit there watching it for 00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:29.740 hours and go oh my god I remember that and oh 00:27:29.740 --> 00:27:31.900 my god I remember that one and you know it's 00:27:31.900 --> 00:27:34.019 so lovely doing something like that and I think 00:27:34.019 --> 00:27:36.259 just generally in your house like having those 00:27:36.259 --> 00:27:39.619 memories is so important I mean I'm terrible 00:27:39.619 --> 00:27:42.579 I've got photographs of everything like I take 00:27:42.579 --> 00:27:45.230 so many photographs I grew up in a photo processing 00:27:45.230 --> 00:27:47.450 lab my parents owned when I was younger so I 00:27:47.450 --> 00:27:49.130 used to take loads of photographs before digital 00:27:49.130 --> 00:27:53.869 photographs and um but actually print out the 00:27:53.869 --> 00:27:55.210 photographs that you've got off your phone so 00:27:55.210 --> 00:27:57.150 many people just take stuff and they don't and 00:27:57.150 --> 00:27:58.349 they put it on Facebook they don't put it in 00:27:58.349 --> 00:28:00.289 their house and I think when you've actually 00:28:00.289 --> 00:28:03.650 got a tangible photo in a frame it means more 00:28:03.650 --> 00:28:05.490 than it does when it's online yeah you don't 00:28:05.490 --> 00:28:07.170 look at it as much do you if you're you know 00:28:07.170 --> 00:28:08.990 I've got goodness knows how many photos in my 00:28:08.990 --> 00:28:11.859 in my But I don't flick back through them. But 00:28:11.859 --> 00:28:13.400 if it's printed off, you will see it and you'll 00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:16.380 see it every day. And when you've had quite a 00:28:16.380 --> 00:28:20.720 traumatic death, often those memories are with 00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:23.440 you all the time. And it's trying to replace 00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:26.640 those traumatic memories with the better memories 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:29.940 that you had before that trauma, really. Yeah. 00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:33.279 So you were talking about something earlier that 00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:37.480 was quite important, I think, when you're grieving. 00:28:39.069 --> 00:28:42.069 that room that meant that reminds you of that 00:28:42.069 --> 00:28:45.650 person can you explain yeah i was saying something 00:28:45.650 --> 00:28:48.230 that we don't really ever talk about is um especially 00:28:48.230 --> 00:28:50.769 if you've had somebody die at home there's that 00:28:50.769 --> 00:28:53.250 room where they died it was the last place you 00:28:53.250 --> 00:28:56.890 saw them and it it's in its it can be a really 00:28:56.890 --> 00:29:02.069 emotional room and it's at what point do you 00:29:02.069 --> 00:29:05.529 decide to do something with that room do you 00:29:05.529 --> 00:29:09.549 change it Do you keep it the same? Do you make 00:29:09.549 --> 00:29:12.170 that room completely different? Do you try and 00:29:12.170 --> 00:29:16.049 keep it similar? It's a really interesting question. 00:29:16.109 --> 00:29:17.569 Of course, there's no right or wrong answer because 00:29:17.569 --> 00:29:19.349 everybody's individual and it's completely up 00:29:19.349 --> 00:29:21.250 to them. But it's something that we don't ever 00:29:21.250 --> 00:29:26.049 really talk about, the design. What do you do 00:29:26.049 --> 00:29:28.970 when you've got a room that's the last place 00:29:28.970 --> 00:29:33.089 someone was in? Yeah. I mean, Chris, my husband, 00:29:33.250 --> 00:29:38.740 his mum died in there. downstairs room um obviously 00:29:38.740 --> 00:29:40.400 she couldn't get upstairs when she was she was 00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:43.779 really sick and that used to be her sewing room 00:29:43.779 --> 00:29:46.480 she used to be a seamstress and you know that 00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:50.420 room is never really changed in their house and 00:29:50.420 --> 00:29:53.019 i think that happens a lot and but it's it's 00:29:53.019 --> 00:29:56.539 whether or not you want to make it a shrine to 00:29:56.539 --> 00:30:00.240 that person and it might be that actually rather 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:03.619 than keeping it as it was it might be you paint 00:30:03.619 --> 00:30:05.599 that room in all their favorite colors and you 00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:07.420 put pictures of them up in that room and you've 00:30:07.420 --> 00:30:09.359 got a little cozy sofa that you can sit and just 00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:12.640 think about them or write about them or you know 00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:15.119 write down memories of who they were and you 00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:17.039 know that now that they're fresh because you 00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:21.420 know memories fade don't they and um But yeah, 00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:23.960 you can keep it. Especially, we were talking 00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:26.859 about this earlier, some people lose their kids. 00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:30.359 A children's room, I don't know, oh my God, I 00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:33.160 can't even imagine what that's like. But actually 00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:38.500 having that child's room, I couldn't, I don't 00:30:38.500 --> 00:30:41.720 know if I could change it. You just can't. You'd 00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:42.980 just shut the door, wouldn't you? And just be 00:30:42.980 --> 00:30:45.019 like, okay, we're just going to deal with that 00:30:45.019 --> 00:30:46.900 next time. And that's the thing, and when is 00:30:46.900 --> 00:30:48.480 next time? You just kick that down the road. 00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:51.799 But then I suppose, Actually, you might get to 00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:54.099 a stage where you're feeling a little bit more 00:30:54.099 --> 00:30:57.680 okay about it and then you can tidy it. And you 00:30:57.680 --> 00:30:59.779 can go in there to remember. So you'd use it 00:30:59.779 --> 00:31:04.839 as its own memorial. But it's a topic that we 00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:06.460 don't really talk about. And of course, sometimes 00:31:06.460 --> 00:31:10.539 people have very complex relationships with people 00:31:10.539 --> 00:31:12.900 and sometimes that relationship isn't always 00:31:12.900 --> 00:31:15.619 that great. So you've got that aspect as well 00:31:15.619 --> 00:31:17.519 when you haven't got a great relationship with 00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:21.539 someone. What do you do with that? And they die 00:31:21.539 --> 00:31:23.740 at home and then you're dealing with all of that 00:31:23.740 --> 00:31:26.640 grief for that complex relationship. And then 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:29.700 do you change that room? Do you change it to 00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:31.599 something completely different? There's just 00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:34.079 so much to consider around grief and that's why 00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:36.279 these types of conversations are so important. 00:31:36.579 --> 00:31:38.740 There's absolutely no right or wrong. Everybody 00:31:38.740 --> 00:31:42.660 is so, so different. No one's talking about it. 00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:44.859 Let's talk about it because it might happen to 00:31:44.859 --> 00:31:46.880 you, to me. We don't know what's going to happen 00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:50.940 next. And it's a consideration, something we 00:31:50.940 --> 00:31:52.640 hopefully don't ever have to talk about, what 00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:55.960 you do with that room, but we might. I struggle 00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:58.259 to go into the room at my parents' house where 00:31:58.259 --> 00:32:02.059 my mum died. I really struggle. Is it their bedroom? 00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:05.039 It was a, no, it was a downstairs, it was turned 00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:07.200 into a bedroom. So we had a hospice at home. 00:32:07.339 --> 00:32:10.160 So we had the carers come in and we did, they 00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:13.099 did what they call a virtual hospice, especially 00:32:13.099 --> 00:32:15.180 it was over COVID time as well. So they didn't 00:32:15.180 --> 00:32:17.579 want us in and out of the hospice. And it was 00:32:17.579 --> 00:32:19.480 great for us because it meant that we were together 00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:23.980 at home with my mum. But I, yeah, I struggled 00:32:23.980 --> 00:32:26.150 to go in there. in that room now and it's it's 00:32:26.150 --> 00:32:28.809 not really changed it's you know everything is 00:32:28.809 --> 00:32:30.990 still the same the hairbrush is still on the 00:32:30.990 --> 00:32:33.970 side my dad hasn't hasn't really touched it at 00:32:33.970 --> 00:32:37.009 all and that's his way of coping I think it would 00:32:37.009 --> 00:32:39.190 be something that you don't have to deal with 00:32:39.190 --> 00:32:42.210 that you just leave because actually that's going 00:32:42.210 --> 00:32:44.779 to upset you yeah And I know people struggle 00:32:44.779 --> 00:32:47.380 with moving as well because that's another change. 00:32:47.900 --> 00:32:50.660 So this might be further down the line, but some 00:32:50.660 --> 00:32:52.140 people might not even be able to afford to stay 00:32:52.140 --> 00:32:53.940 in the same house because they've lost a financial 00:32:53.940 --> 00:32:57.140 partner. And so then they have to move. And so 00:32:57.140 --> 00:32:59.339 they're leaving all those memories behind. And 00:32:59.339 --> 00:33:02.119 that's another loss. You're grieving the loss 00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:04.700 and then you're grieving again because you're 00:33:04.700 --> 00:33:06.339 having to move home, possibly not through choice 00:33:06.339 --> 00:33:08.799 or maybe through choice, but you're still leaving. 00:33:09.180 --> 00:33:11.319 You feel like you're leaving the memory behind. 00:33:11.380 --> 00:33:14.539 So it's like another grieving process that you 00:33:14.539 --> 00:33:19.039 have to go through. Yeah, I mean, I'm a little 00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:23.380 bit... Because I've got ADHD and I've just like 00:33:23.380 --> 00:33:25.259 totally outed myself here because I've never 00:33:25.259 --> 00:33:27.500 said this on the podcast before. Oh, I feel so 00:33:27.500 --> 00:33:30.099 privileged. Thank you. I feel like I can talk 00:33:30.099 --> 00:33:33.990 to you. yeah because I have I think one of the 00:33:33.990 --> 00:33:36.210 things that I've got which is really really helpful 00:33:36.210 --> 00:33:38.930 about my the way my mind works is that I'm like 00:33:38.930 --> 00:33:42.230 out of sight out of mind so I think that my initial 00:33:42.230 --> 00:33:45.690 way of dealing with grief in any situation is 00:33:45.690 --> 00:33:48.410 to just move forward and leave it all behind 00:33:48.410 --> 00:33:52.299 it's called denial it's one of the stages I'm 00:33:52.299 --> 00:33:55.819 in complete denial for a long time. And then 00:33:55.819 --> 00:33:57.380 it just catches me up a few years later. Yeah, 00:33:57.380 --> 00:33:59.460 that's the thing with grief. You cannot outrun 00:33:59.460 --> 00:34:01.640 it. It'll come and get you at some point and 00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:03.940 it will bite you on the backside. Yeah, I agree 00:34:03.940 --> 00:34:08.059 with that, definitely. Let's try though. But 00:34:08.059 --> 00:34:10.519 that's kind of like my instant reaction is to 00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:12.340 like, I would be like painting the walls in the 00:34:12.340 --> 00:34:14.380 room and like going, right, move on, come on, 00:34:14.380 --> 00:34:16.860 let's go move on. Yeah, and then that would be 00:34:16.860 --> 00:34:19.519 my way of coping. And then five years later, 00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:21.679 I'd be like, I want the room back the way it 00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:24.159 was. Yeah, and that's the thing, you've made 00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:27.179 those changes. Yes, I suppose you have to be 00:34:27.179 --> 00:34:29.960 mindful about it. So if you have got a room that 00:34:29.960 --> 00:34:32.280 you're not sure about, just leave it until you 00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:34.960 are very sure. Don't make any rash decisions. 00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:38.739 Don't make any, like me, because I'm full of 00:34:38.739 --> 00:34:41.119 ADHD, so I would do that. Well, they say don't 00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:42.639 make big decisions, don't they, when you're grieving? 00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:45.260 But I decided to upend my whole life, change 00:34:45.260 --> 00:34:47.360 my career and everything, because for me, I like 00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:50.360 change. So although it was a horrendous situation, 00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:53.480 it made me change everything. And I say, you 00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:56.849 know, some people... Grief can be a catalyst 00:34:56.849 --> 00:35:00.489 for growth. It can make you make some huge changes 00:35:00.489 --> 00:35:03.269 in your own life. I think it makes you realise 00:35:03.269 --> 00:35:07.150 that life is short. I used to know a lady called 00:35:07.150 --> 00:35:10.230 Leela and she worked in the interior design industry 00:35:10.230 --> 00:35:13.150 in the UK. She was always the life and soul of 00:35:13.150 --> 00:35:18.590 the party. And she was only 28. and she she died 00:35:18.590 --> 00:35:22.090 in um I don't know what happened I never really 00:35:22.090 --> 00:35:24.070 got to the bottom of it I'm not very close to 00:35:24.070 --> 00:35:25.389 the family I went to the funeral and there was 00:35:25.389 --> 00:35:28.489 a lot of people there um she was so young and 00:35:28.489 --> 00:35:31.230 and um I didn't realize how young she was actually 00:35:31.230 --> 00:35:36.829 but she the one thing I took from that is like 00:35:36.829 --> 00:35:39.570 she was always there like whenever I went networking 00:35:39.570 --> 00:35:41.369 in the industry like she was just always there 00:35:41.369 --> 00:35:43.269 she was like like my wing woman she was amazing 00:35:43.269 --> 00:35:46.030 but then all of a sudden she wasn't there and 00:35:46.619 --> 00:35:48.699 she was so young like she was younger than me 00:35:48.699 --> 00:35:51.739 so I was going oh shit you know life is short 00:35:51.739 --> 00:35:54.000 and you've got to make the most of it and I think 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:56.820 that's one of the reasons why a lot of people 00:35:56.820 --> 00:36:00.159 do change yeah because they realize you're not 00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:02.280 on this planet for very long are you and you've 00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:04.840 got to make the most of it and you know make 00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:07.019 and also that's one of the things in with um 00:36:07.019 --> 00:36:09.420 with like all the things in your home as well 00:36:09.420 --> 00:36:12.440 like you're not here for very long so like why 00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:16.179 not make your home really lovely why not make 00:36:16.179 --> 00:36:20.219 your surroundings something that you really really 00:36:20.219 --> 00:36:22.880 love and and one of the things that i say when 00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.300 i'm doing a design for somebody is if you don't 00:36:25.300 --> 00:36:28.659 love it i don't want you to have it like you 00:36:28.659 --> 00:36:31.260 need to love it yeah you're going to live with 00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:33.699 this for a long time and i do not want you to 00:36:33.699 --> 00:36:36.260 be swearing about me in a few years so you need 00:36:36.260 --> 00:36:39.239 to love it you need to like really really connect 00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:41.559 with the things that you've got around you and 00:36:41.559 --> 00:36:45.860 i think that's for me i i when whenever i have 00:36:45.860 --> 00:36:48.739 like a drastic thing happen and a change i always 00:36:48.739 --> 00:36:53.079 like to decorate like quick change it and you 00:36:53.079 --> 00:36:54.300 know shall we talk about that from a therapy 00:36:54.300 --> 00:36:59.679 perspective what is it about the change what 00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:03.420 does that mean for you oh i don't know i just 00:37:03.420 --> 00:37:05.860 love change i'm like you i love change i love 00:37:05.860 --> 00:37:10.320 things to move I don't like standing still. So 00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:15.980 I like things to move and to grow. Like I'm constantly 00:37:15.980 --> 00:37:17.980 going, oh, I must get new frames for that and 00:37:17.980 --> 00:37:20.519 I must do this and all that. And, you know, and 00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:24.000 for me, if I've got a picture in a frame that's 00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:27.139 faded, like it's a massive issue. Like I'm like, 00:37:27.260 --> 00:37:30.599 oh my God, it's got to change. You know, we haven't 00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:36.389 got enough hours for this. I love it. Since Kat's 00:37:36.389 --> 00:37:39.130 become a counsellor, she's properly counselling 00:37:39.130 --> 00:37:40.909 my arse. She's like, how do you feel about why 00:37:40.909 --> 00:37:43.289 you think that? And I'm like, oh my God, I love 00:37:43.289 --> 00:37:45.010 it. Because you can't counsel your friends. But 00:37:45.010 --> 00:37:46.909 I just make you question things. That's all it 00:37:46.909 --> 00:37:51.610 is. Why is it that you like change so much? But 00:37:51.610 --> 00:37:54.210 no, you love change. I do love change. I do. 00:37:54.349 --> 00:37:56.230 I love it. I remember an old boss said to me 00:37:56.230 --> 00:37:58.650 once that she said to me that you don't like 00:37:58.650 --> 00:38:01.190 change. And I was like, you have absolutely got 00:38:01.190 --> 00:38:04.019 me wrong. And I wonder... I should take that 00:38:04.019 --> 00:38:06.159 to therapy because I feel like I'm battling against 00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:09.400 that all the time. Like, I love change. Change 00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:13.179 is, for me, change is growth. But I'm sure there's... 00:38:13.179 --> 00:38:16.199 It might be similar to me because you're quite 00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:19.559 similar to me. I love it when things change when 00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:21.780 I'm in control. But you've got... If someone 00:38:21.780 --> 00:38:23.440 else is like, this is going to change and you 00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:26.619 don't want to do it, it's like, what? I was going 00:38:26.619 --> 00:38:28.699 to get to that about change in general and, you 00:38:28.699 --> 00:38:31.440 know, who's making those changes? Yeah. Yeah. 00:38:31.639 --> 00:38:35.440 Yeah. Me. They're fine. Those ones are fine. 00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:38.539 That's why I run my own business. Obviously, 00:38:38.539 --> 00:38:40.840 my clients tell me what to do. And I embrace 00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:43.179 that. Well, I suppose you educate as well, though, 00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:46.039 don't you, with that? Well, I just, I like to 00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:47.519 think, I mean, it depends on the client. But, 00:38:47.579 --> 00:38:49.639 I mean, I've got a client at the moment who I'm 00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:53.019 helping her make informed decisions. So she's 00:38:53.019 --> 00:38:55.780 got, like, she's, the client I've got is really 00:38:55.780 --> 00:38:58.300 creative. She's amazing. She hasn't got time 00:38:58.300 --> 00:39:02.119 to do the interior design. but she wants to be 00:39:02.119 --> 00:39:04.739 really really involved so i'm basically saying 00:39:04.739 --> 00:39:07.340 to her um you know she's coming to me going i'm 00:39:07.340 --> 00:39:09.320 thinking i'm wanting green tiles in the toilet 00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:11.280 what do you think and i'm going right yes this 00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:13.639 if you do this like this the psychology behind 00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:17.460 it is this so if you so for example um i don't 00:39:17.460 --> 00:39:19.639 know about green tiles in the toilets but um 00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:26.360 furniture so if you have really hard seats it 00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:29.179 won't feel very comfortable but it might be something 00:39:29.179 --> 00:39:32.219 that you want to create a behavior around so 00:39:32.219 --> 00:39:34.219 for example if you don't like guests in your 00:39:34.219 --> 00:39:37.900 house hard seats all the way your chair is really 00:39:37.900 --> 00:39:41.039 comfortable the others are not they won't stay 00:39:41.039 --> 00:39:43.380 very long so like you know in a restaurant if 00:39:43.380 --> 00:39:45.500 you if you want in and out i suppose quick turnaround 00:39:45.500 --> 00:39:50.320 express do this in in the uk um hard seats and 00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:52.639 they they turn the table don't get comfy yeah 00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:54.219 they turn the table and things like the noodle 00:39:54.219 --> 00:39:56.179 bar in colchester one of the ones that we've 00:39:56.179 --> 00:39:57.980 done recently it's on it's on my blog if you 00:39:57.980 --> 00:40:01.920 want to see it um and on on all the socials the 00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:05.059 um youtube channel as well sorry got you can't 00:40:05.059 --> 00:40:09.599 mention youtube um their their furniture is hard 00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:13.900 and they were talking about they extended the 00:40:13.900 --> 00:40:16.380 restaurant because they bought the property next 00:40:16.380 --> 00:40:19.159 to the the restaurant adjacent to it and they 00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:21.219 knocked through and they were talking about having 00:40:21.219 --> 00:40:25.079 more comfortable seating and i said to them oh 00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:27.400 you need to be careful about this because if 00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:29.280 you have more comfortable seating people will 00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:31.099 stay for longer and the first thing they said 00:40:31.099 --> 00:40:34.280 to me was we turn those tables five times every 00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:38.420 weekend on it in one day so it's like well if 00:40:38.420 --> 00:40:41.559 you want to carry on doing that just know that 00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:43.699 the comfortable seats that you've got might not 00:40:43.699 --> 00:40:46.280 turn as quick as the other ones you know and 00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:49.519 there's a psychology behind that and you know 00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:51.460 if you're grieving and you want to be left alone 00:40:51.460 --> 00:40:54.320 just get rid of the furniture and get some really 00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:58.699 uncomfortable chairs and make your sofa like 00:40:58.699 --> 00:41:03.019 a little epiphany of comfort and luxury and just 00:41:03.019 --> 00:41:05.360 look after yourself in that make sure you go 00:41:05.869 --> 00:41:08.329 A little table, like a little nest of tables 00:41:08.329 --> 00:41:10.130 next to you so you can put your bottle of water 00:41:10.130 --> 00:41:12.110 or your peppermint tea or whatever it is that 00:41:12.110 --> 00:41:15.090 you need to have to keep you hydrated because 00:41:15.090 --> 00:41:17.389 that's bad. Yes, it is. It's something you never 00:41:17.389 --> 00:41:20.650 think about, but you lose so much through tears. 00:41:21.030 --> 00:41:23.690 And actually, again, something I learned through 00:41:23.690 --> 00:41:25.650 grief is that the tears are good for you. There's 00:41:25.650 --> 00:41:30.510 a chemical in the tears that can... I want to 00:41:30.510 --> 00:41:33.889 say... No, I can't remember. There's a particular 00:41:33.889 --> 00:41:36.690 chemical that... And if you've been crying for 00:41:36.690 --> 00:41:40.250 a while, it can be quite soothing. The tears 00:41:40.250 --> 00:41:42.269 are actually, the chemical in the tears is quite 00:41:42.269 --> 00:41:43.670 soothing. I need to read up on it more because 00:41:43.670 --> 00:41:45.409 I'm not explaining myself very well. But yeah, 00:41:45.590 --> 00:41:48.949 it's endorphins. It's almost like an endorphin 00:41:48.949 --> 00:41:54.050 that comes from the tears. And we often try and 00:41:54.050 --> 00:41:57.710 stop people crying, normally because we can't 00:41:57.710 --> 00:41:59.230 handle our own emotions when we see someone else 00:41:59.230 --> 00:42:04.760 in sadness or whatever the tears are for. Don't 00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:09.960 stop someone. Let them. If someone is sad, let 00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:11.980 them cry. People say it, don't they? Don't cry. 00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:15.199 Yeah, I know. You're told to squish it down all 00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:17.679 the time. Or we touch. And that's, again, a sign 00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:21.880 of almost stopping. is it yeah yeah because you're 00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:24.400 almost saying like don't do that stop doing that 00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:27.360 but actually what about hugging i'm a hugger 00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:30.099 you're a hugger not everybody wants to hug either 00:42:30.099 --> 00:42:33.179 i love hugging some people can really struggle 00:42:33.179 --> 00:42:35.179 with hugs because of their previous experiences 00:42:35.179 --> 00:42:39.940 so ask the best thing to do is ask can i hug 00:42:39.940 --> 00:42:42.679 you what would you like a hug not can i because 00:42:42.679 --> 00:42:44.780 it's not for you It's for them. Do you know what? 00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:46.099 One of the things that me and my husband say 00:42:46.099 --> 00:42:48.099 to each other is, what do you need? Yes, exactly 00:42:48.099 --> 00:42:51.150 that. And I love that because you go... I just 00:42:51.150 --> 00:42:52.489 need you to tell me it's all going to be all 00:42:52.489 --> 00:42:54.949 right. Or I just need a hug. Or I just need to 00:42:54.949 --> 00:42:57.469 be left alone. Or whatever it is, if someone 00:42:57.469 --> 00:43:00.409 asks you what do you need, you've then got the 00:43:00.409 --> 00:43:02.389 opportunity to think about what you need because 00:43:02.389 --> 00:43:04.690 actually you might not know. Well, and with grief, 00:43:04.710 --> 00:43:06.230 sometimes you're so overwhelmed you absolutely 00:43:06.230 --> 00:43:09.329 don't know. Like, leave me a lasagna on my doormat. 00:43:09.469 --> 00:43:12.349 Don't expect me to come to the door. I don't 00:43:12.349 --> 00:43:15.650 know what I need. I'm so overwhelmed with everything 00:43:15.650 --> 00:43:19.530 that's gone on. I'm processing. I don't have 00:43:19.530 --> 00:43:20.900 the capacity. tell you what i need because i 00:43:20.900 --> 00:43:23.139 don't know what i need but i know i'm going to 00:43:23.139 --> 00:43:25.239 need to eat at some point so please just leave 00:43:25.239 --> 00:43:27.860 something for me come around and you know hoover 00:43:27.860 --> 00:43:30.579 the lounge do something practical um because 00:43:30.579 --> 00:43:31.900 i'm not necessarily going to be able to tell 00:43:31.900 --> 00:43:34.579 you what what i need i think that's a thing isn't 00:43:34.579 --> 00:43:38.320 it it's a functional thing if you if you're grieving 00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:40.989 and you're struggling with grief Like actually 00:43:40.989 --> 00:43:42.809 being able to function is going to be a problem. 00:43:42.929 --> 00:43:44.949 So actually someone coming into your house and 00:43:44.949 --> 00:43:47.289 helping you in some way, like making you dinner 00:43:47.289 --> 00:43:50.309 or like hoovering your lounge. Yeah. That's what 00:43:50.309 --> 00:43:53.030 you can do. And give someone a blanket, not a 00:43:53.030 --> 00:43:55.130 plant that's going to die. Exactly that. A big, 00:43:55.150 --> 00:43:59.750 squishy, warm, comfy blanket. I mean, that in 00:43:59.750 --> 00:44:01.989 itself, that sounds lovely, doesn't it? And that, 00:44:02.070 --> 00:44:04.889 yeah, not a plant, not some flowers. You can 00:44:04.889 --> 00:44:06.829 wrap them in and give them a hug even if they 00:44:06.829 --> 00:44:08.659 don't want a hug. Exactly that. exactly thank 00:44:08.659 --> 00:44:11.199 you so much for coming on onto the i'm going 00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:13.119 on to the podcast but actually it's your podcast 00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:15.900 too it's our podcast so yeah thank you for listening 00:44:15.900 --> 00:44:19.179 to the interior design podcast meets grieve and 00:44:19.179 --> 00:44:23.179 achieve podcast and we hope that you've got something 00:44:23.179 --> 00:44:26.340 out of this and that you've enjoyed it and that 00:44:26.340 --> 00:44:30.380 we can help you help others or you'll help you 00:44:30.380 --> 00:44:33.679 help yourself look at this beautiful studio how 00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:37.929 exciting is this thanks for having me Thanks 00:44:37.929 --> 00:44:40.530 for having me. Take care everyone. Bye bye. Like 00:44:40.530 --> 00:44:40.909 and subscribe.