Welcome to the Interior Design Podcast. I'm Hayley
Roy, a commercial interior designer with a passion
for creating beautiful functional spaces. Over
the years, I've worked on a variety of projects
and I've accumulated a wealth of knowledge which
I'm excited to share with you. I started this
podcast because I believe in the power of interior
design, so much of what we need to know as designers.
you won't learn in a classroom. Whether you're
an aspiring designer, tackling your home project,
or a seasoned pro, this podcast is for you. Season
two is here, and I couldn't be more thrilled
to kick things off with some fresh energy and
exciting changes. This season, I'm joined by
not one, but two incredible co -hosts, Hannah
Denny and Scarlett Mallett. Together, we're diving
deeper into the world of design to bring you
more perspectives, lively debates, and all the
tips and tricks you need to thrive. We're here
to offer practical advice, discuss the latest
trends, and give you unfiltered, real -world
insights. Expect honest conversations, a bit
of humour, and maybe even the occasional strong
opinion and language. Remember, if it's not fun,
we're not doing it. And if you're a sound editor
looking for a fun collaboration, let us know.
We'd love to have you on board. Thanks for tuning
in to season two of the Interior Design Podcast.
We are live at the HRC show and we have got our
beautiful stage that we've designed. Our stand
is over there. Yes, I'm Hayley Roy. I'm Scarlett
Maller. And I'm Hannah Denny. And we work at
Harp Design. I'm a commercial interior designer
and project manager. I am also a commercial interior
designer and a project manager. And I am executive
assistant designer and project manager. We've
all been designing restaurants for years, haven't
we? I've been designing restaurants for 20 years.
And you guys have all got experience as well.
And we were just talking about it when we were
saying that one of the things that we bring is
that we all have experience in hospitality as
well. And that's such a really... important thing
as a designer. It's a key element. I've worked
with loads of interior designers who've not had
that experience and they just don't get it. So
it's one of the things that we bring as a team,
isn't it? What kind of hospitality experience
have you had, Hayley? Well, all of my family
have worked in hospitality at one point or another.
My mum's a chef, my sister's a chef, my grandparents
and my auntie have run pubs. So I've kind of
been brought up in the industry, really, and
always being a waitress somewhere. And then I
worked on super yachts. Okay, so how about you,
Star? I have worked in a number of bars and restaurants
that were quite like a small business. Like there
was only, for instance, one of them in a little
village. And I feel like working in that restaurant
gave me so much knowledge because it was literally
only had about... 10 tables you have got to be
like on it all the time and really fast of what
you do so working in that industry and especially
in a really small business I feel like gave me
so much experience what about you Hannah so I
used to be a wedding and events planner um so
we worked in lots of different venues and marquees
and hotels and everything so um I feel like I
have got the knowledge when it comes to actually
the running of things and what works and what
doesn't so yeah yeah and then yeah then furniture
manufacturing and then and then here we are today
so and i've got a business degree and i've always
run a business and i love the whole return on
investment aspect of the design so you know don't
specify putting really expensive stuff because
you're never going to pay for it you know and
and the whole idea of running a restaurant is
to run a business to make money so exactly yeah
and i love it so you can Fun fact. This is our
fun fact of the day. The National Restaurant
Association estimates a 20 % success rate for
all restaurants. About 60 % of restaurants fail
in their first year of operation and 80 % fail
within five years. That's a huge amount. I feel
like working as an interior designer and working
in this industry, I feel like that isn't too
surprising for me. I feel like, I mean, especially
imagine that percent rate. When COVID came about,
like... Oh, God, yeah. I mean, a lot of people
went busty. Yeah. I think a lot of people think
it's really easy. And it's not. It's really hard
work. And you've just got to... You've just got
to have it with people. And you've got to get
it right. Yeah. And the staff aspect of it is
really difficult. Because, you know, there's
loads of staff issues with the hospitality industry
at the moment. Getting and keeping the right
staff. And there's so many aspects to it. But
what we're trying to do today is we're trying
to... change that yeah we want to help to help
more restaurants succeed so what we're going
to do is we're going to teach you how to design
a restaurant and some of the secrets that we
can share so restaurant brand and interior design
um one of the things that we do as a business
is we uh we do brand workshops, brand identity
workshops. And what we do is we work with startup
businesses and we work with businesses that...
Have already got a brand. Have already got a
brand and they're rebranding and they're updating
and they're tweaking. So what we do is we go
through a process of making sure that whatever
brand that you've got speaks to the end user.
It's got personality. It's fun. People like it.
People are attracted to it. And then what we
do when we go through the interior design process
is we put all of that brand all the way through
the design. So it speaks to the client at every
single moment. The end user is getting all these
little moments of truth where everything links
back to the brand. Making sure that you get all
those little moments of truth is really, really
important. And I think there's a lot of people
who don't get that right. And that's where some
of those figures are coming from, because people
just don't think about it. They just kind of
go, oh, I think I'm going to just like serve
food and great service. And then if people are
sitting on a really uncomfortable seat all night.
And it's cold. The decor is like too dull and
it suppresses you. There's a light in the seats.
There's so much that goes into designing and
running a restaurant. I mean, for instance, we
are sitting. Like Hannah was just saying, talking
about the bright light, we're sitting on the
stage that we have designed, which is all based
around neurodiversity. But I feel like the elements
of neurodiversity can be added to anywhere. I
mean, the lighting we've used is a low, timid,
warm light, so it doesn't kind of have that bright
white light effect in your eyes that is too in
your face. I mean... So it makes you feel more
calmer in the interior. And I feel like you don't
just apply it to places where people struggle.
It can be applied to anywhere and also make it
such a welcoming and warm, comforting environment.
Absolutely, yeah. One of the things about brand
is that kind of tying it all back. You must tie
it all back to that brand. Yesterday I was saying
that actually as a design practice, we don't
have a personality in terms of... We don't have
a style. No. A lot of interior designers have
got this style. And people choose that designer
because they want that style. We are not like
that. If you look on our website, we've got all
different projects, all different brands and
different people doing different things. And
what we do, and I said to this guy yesterday,
I'm a massive people pleaser. I just want my
client to be really happy. And I'm really bad
at designing for myself because I have no idea
what my style is. I like... attach myself to
a brand or to a person and I like literally try
and make everything tie back to that yeah I feel
like we're like chameleons yeah and we you can
kind of the more that we kind of hang out with
someone and spend time with them and like meetings
and stuff we almost like merge into like a part
of it's literally we get to know them we hang
out with them so much that we develop their personality
and what they want But it's like Hayley was saying,
though, me personally, I cannot design my own
house for me. Like, I just, I can't. And I know,
and I know. It's difficult, isn't it? It's so
difficult because it's actually looking at and
thinking about what you actually want. I know.
We couldn't even afford that, didn't we? It's
so crazy for us, like, because we're interior
designers. Constantly doing it. You constantly
do it and you cannot decide. What's the first
secret then? What are we getting away? I think
if you're designing a restaurant, you start off
with sitting down and really analysing what you're
doing. Who's your market? What are the words
that describe your brand? Have you got a logo?
If you have, does that logo really speak to the
people or that name really speak to the people
that you're going to be serving? Do you want
that logo as like a really big feature throughout
the interior or do you want it kind of as a...
Like a footnote in a way. Yeah, absolutely. It
might be the interior speaking. But you start
off really analysing and you ask yourself a lot
of questions. Who are we? to be or not to be
that's the question so you write down a list
of lots of words who you are what you want to
be then you write down another list of all the
words you do not want to be and you make sure
that everything you do it falls into the to be
category and what happens is that creates a business
plan that is who are we what are we going to
do you just have to write down lots of words
And it will tell you what kind of uniform to
have, what kind of staff training you need. It's
going to do everything. Sometimes when you've
been doing the brand workshops that you do that
list and that to -do list sometimes gets the
name of the business as well. We did one in Stratford
recently where, I mean, everyone that we do,
it does this, where you just have this light
bulb moment. in the middle of the branding workshop,
you're like, yes, that's it, that's it. If you're
looking for a logo or a name in a restaurant.
And I've done it myself. I started up a business
with Cheryl when she did Rebel Designs. And we
sat down and did the branding workshop with a
glass of, well, with a bottle of wine. And it
was just so good. And you always come out of
that branding workshop really pumped because
you've got that brand and you know who you are
when you're walking out the door. It's fantastic.
So it's really, really important to start there.
Start there, yeah. So that's the first secret.
Moments of truth. So yeah, develop those moments
of truth. I got this expression from a book that
was written by Starbucks called The Starbucks
Experience. And if anyone's got a hospitality
business, I would urge you to read this book.
It's brilliant. Moments of truth are those little
moments that that customer has when they walk
through the door in your restaurant from how
they're greeted to what the fabric feels like
on the furniture. to what flooring feels like
under their feet. The smell. What it smells like.
The whole experience. The ambiance. The ambiance
of all of that. But it's moments of truth and
it's all about creating those moments of truth.
You can make those moments of truth happen. If
you're owning a restaurant, all you have to do
is focus on that. To get every single moment
that that person is in your restaurant to really...
buy into what you're doing and it all has to
link back again to the brand i feel like them
moments of truth are really important as well
for someone to remember the restaurant so them
to for instance have a specific food or go into
a different place and go this feels or like the
atmosphere or the smell is exactly like that
place is is making your restaurant be known and
like making people remember it i feel like it's
such a key element a lot of people will not know
what it is but it won't if something's wrong
it won't feel right yeah it might be the we'll
walk into a restaurant and we can see it you
know we know what the recipe is to build it but
most people will just go it just doesn't feel
right you know and and that's why it's because
something isn't lining with the brand it's really
it's really important about branding and getting
to know someone but also when when we were going
on about how to develop your brand and how to
make that flow throughout your restaurant one
thing that we do all of us as a team as well
is we get to to know our our client and we always
say that we really enjoy negative feedback Because
if... You're like, be brutally honest. I love
it. I love it. It's like when I meet a client
and I'm showing them some ideas, if you don't
like that, don't agree with me. You need to tell
me, otherwise this is not going to feel like
your brand. This is not going to feel like your
place. And that... Yeah, honesty is such a main...
It's such a big part of it. And people will be
able to feel that. Do you get what I mean? people
will feel that you do not have that enjoyment
of the restaurant because it's not the outcome
that you wanted. You need to pick holes in it.
And this is the same in any business. You need
to pick holes in what you're doing because if
you don't, someone else will. So what's wrong
with it? Why isn't it quite right? What is it
about that doesn't feel right? But the key design
elements are lighting, furniture, colour. flooring
and compliance. So with lighting, we talked about
lighting and how it makes you feel. If you've
got, for me, when I design lighting in a restaurant,
I over -engineer it. In a restaurant, it needs
to be clean. So you have to have light so you
can clean. So you can get in all those nooks
and crannies and make sure it's right. You also
have to create ambience. Ambience. Ambience.
Ambience. But you do, you have to create that
ambience. It is ambience, not ambiance. I'm being
French, wasn't I? Yeah, it's because I said it
earlier. So you've got to create it and you've
got to use a lot of different types of light
to do that. You've got to make sure that people
can see what they're eating. But you've also
got to have it so it's warm. And please, please,
unless you don't want people to stay very long
in your restaurant, don't put white light in
there in the daylight. That's for an office so
you can see clearly. Yes, you can put white light
and daylight in there if you're going to turn
it off during service. Yeah. Because you can
use it for cleaning. Ability to change. That's
what is important is the ability to change the
lighting. Yes, to have the dimmers. Yeah. So
for instance, we designed a restaurant. I'm not
too sure if they went for this in the end, but
me and Hayley worked together to redesign a restaurant
in our local town, which is called North Hill
Noodle Bar. And we said to them. Have that warm,
neutral lighting that everyone loves when they're
eating. But also, you can have that dimmer and
that switch that changes to white lighting for
when you're cleaning. It's having that balance.
I mean, you don't always have to have that bright
white lighting. But I mean, if you have the budget
for it, it's such a good element. So make sure
that everything is... You can buy spotlights
that go from cold to warm now, so you don't have
to have two lots of lighting. You can have one
lot of lighting that you just turn on. We have
a supplier we work with called IBL Lighting who
have actually sponsored the stage for the show
and us. Hi, Charlie. Nice to meet you. They are
amazing, and we have worked with them so many
times. We have the best outcome with them when
it comes to lighting. Indeed. Furniture has got
to be comfortable or not. If you don't want people
to stay very long, North Hill Noodle Bar, they
don't want people to stay. They want to turn
their tables. And they do. They turn their tables
five or six times. People go in there for a quick
dinner before the theatre, whatever it is. Have
hard seats. Pizza Express do this so they can
turn the tables three or four times in the evening.
So it's the outcome of what you want for your
business. Yeah, make, if you're looking for somebody
to stay all night, make those chairs really comfortable.
Make the tables bigger, you know, so it's lovely.
Also, I think in regards to furniture as well,
it's the layout of it and how it works for your
staff to be able to get around. If tables are
too tightly packed together and you've got a
waiter's like bottom in your face when you're...
You're not trying to sit there and have a meal
with your friend or your partner or whoever.
It's not a nice experience. So, yeah, the layout
and furniture comes as one, I think. That's something
that's really interesting because everyone has
different elements of design that they don't
enjoy when going to a restaurant or when going
out. For me, one place that I just don't like
the layout completely is Wagamama. I don't like
that seating where you are so close to the next
person. Like I always think like somehow maybe
add a screen or. have that separate table. I
don't want to be right next to someone in their
face. No, you don't know. But you know the noodle
bar is actually tied to their migramines, but
the way that they do it is with light. It's with
light. Yeah, that's what I mean. Because they
bring the light really low and your light is
here. On your table. Yeah. On your table next
to you, sorry, for the people who are listening,
you're kind of going into like a little triangle
of light. So you don't feel like you're... really
close to the person next to you so it's it's
really clever design that makes it feel better
than that and screens and screens are brilliant
yeah pats people in but you put two people next
to each other yeah and it's really like this
yeah but also what north hill noodle bar done
is instead of having that long seating like harry
potter style yeah they literally just Broke it
up into little elements. It was still just as
close, but you had that breakage where you felt
that gap. You felt away from them people. And
I feel like that is so important. It's like such
a small detail, but can make the biggest difference.
Color. Look into the psychology of color when
you're looking at doing your LRVs. Branding.
And all your colors. Yeah, absolutely. LRVs,
it comes under compliance as well. We've got
another podcast on LRVs with Dawn Scott from
Dulux, which was really informative. But it's
just about making sure that anyone who's visually
impaired can navigate. So to do that, you have
to have floors and walls and ceilings that are
contrasted accordingly. And the LRV podcast can
educate you a bit more about that one. I'm not
going to go into it now. But that kind of thing
is really, really important. But also the psychology
of colour around your brand. So you might have...
a brand that's a certain colour, but also your
interior is really important as well. So building
your brand, so you've got those secondary colours
as well. So you might have, I don't know, a green
logo, but you might have blue, orange and yellow
in the secondary colours. You don't have to use
that logo. It's your colours everywhere, do you?
And make those rules for yourself in everything
you do. So marketing and everything. We're going
to get kicked off here in about eight minutes.
So we need to fasten up a bit. So, yeah, and
compliance. You know, we've got building control
now. The building safety act has come in recently.
So that's all of it. Do you know one thing that
whenever I say to someone, I constantly get asked
this question. Whenever I say to someone, oh,
I am an interior designer, they go, Kate, sir,
what is the first thing you design? Have you
got a base? And I'm like, I used to say that
it was flooring. And then I would say, oh, no,
it's the paint colours. But I actually don't
think you have a base at all. I think you can
start from anywhere and then just go along. I'm
really sorry to interrupt this, but unfortunately,
the rest of this recording didn't work. So what
we're going to do is we are going to record the
rest of it in the studio. Hello. Welcome back.
Hannah and I are in the studio now because...
We had a few technical problems at the HRC, so
we're going to finish off. We are. A photo about
that. Sorry, Scarlett's not here. She's on holiday.
She's sunning herself, isn't she? Yeah, for Mrs.
Scarlett. Miss you. So where were we? We were
talking about two design elements. So we talked
about hard seats in restaurants. Yes. And how
that creates an environment where people move.
their butts out of the seat because they're not
comfortable. But I think a successful restaurant,
so what is a successful restaurant? Well, it
depends, doesn't it? I think that it all comes
down to service, the aesthetics of the place,
the environment and how it makes you feel and
obviously the food has got to be wonderful. I
think there's three. There's like your environment,
the food and the service. Yeah. or food or drinks
or whatever it is you're serving. So I think
that then, and somebody to run the business.
Yeah. Who can run a business and knows how much
to charge and everything else. And I think that
will then make you successful. But in terms of
design, so we've only got the control of the
aesthetic. Yes. But if you've got nice aesthetics,
you get nice staff. Yeah. Because it's a nice
place to work. Exactly, yeah. And if you get...
nice aesthetics people just feel better when
they walk in so with the lighting if you've got
a light shining in your face yeah we said that
didn't we yeah and actually we went for lunch
didn't we the other day and there was a spotlight
right in my eyes and and i was like oh this isn't
very comfortable and then yeah you asked you
asked to move tables like i'll be fine i'll put
up with a migraine i actually just wanted to
see another we went into studio there we did
it was like the food yeah food was amazing and
the queue out the door as well at like what time
was it about half three on a tuesday um so they're
doing definitely doing something right yeah definitely
i love their interior design it's just so there's
just so much of it yeah it's just a lot going
a lot going on yeah lots to look at on the walls
and stuff i think that's what it is it's that
with the aesthetics it's about making it interesting
so another thing that's really important is color
and what that psychology of the color means so
like you know if you put dark blue walls and
make it really oppressive, you aren't going to
want to stay. No. You have to make it really
in keeping with the brand and make people feel
like they're really welcome. Yeah. I think you
can do that with an interior. Yeah, definitely.
And with people, people like to be told what
to do. So I always use things like flooring to
designate certain areas. I like using chevrons
to direct people in and out. Secretly as well,
so just a slight colour change that's like, oh,
okay. Or just the direction of the fangs. That's
quite cool. And people, you know, wayfinding.
If you can't see the toilet sign in the majority
of the restaurant, you're doing something wrong.
You need to be able to use the toilet and find
out where it is quickly. Straight away, yeah.
Without having to ask. People have to ask where
the toilet is. It's a pain in the ass. And it's
taking up your staff's time and they should be
looking after them. so um so that's important
really important um and compliance yeah so tell
us a little bit about compliance like what what
is included in that you know sometimes we have
to get building control involved so what would
they be looking out for so if you're doing a
restaurant refurbishment um and you're rewiring
lighting or you're moving a wall When you're
doing any kind of substantial refurbishment,
you do need to have a building control sign -off.
So that equates to either speaking to the council
about one of their building control offices,
which is slow, or you can use an independent
building control officer, which is much faster,
but it's a bit more expensive. But it's a lot
easier to do that because you can get advice
and hear about that and you're not kind of waiting.
So that's really important. The other thing that
is important is CDM. Yep. So construction design
management, the law changed in 2015. So whenever
you do a construction project, you must, with
more than one contractor. So if you're employing
a main contractor and they're doing everything
and they're designing it and everything, that's
fine. They're taking on the principal designer
role and the principal contractor role. The moment
you... use more than one contractor i .e you're
having fitted seating put in by one company and
having the walls painted and you're having electric
electrical work done with these like that you
need to have some one person who is responsible
for that main contractor and you need a principal
designer so if the main contractor aren't designing
it you need to have a principal designer or as
a client you need to take on that role you need
to understand what that means um and some yeah
sometimes i help my clients perform that role
by giving them some information about how what
they need to do but really you should have somebody
who really knows what they're doing in construction
if that's not what you do every day um so cs
edm is really important we did a podcast about
that didn't we yeah and renting so if you want
more information about this then you can listen
to that absolutely um but yeah and suitable for
use like i mean compliance is also lrv yes also
under building control so there's an awful lot
of building control regulations and if you're
not an architect and you're an interior designer
actually that's quite a big thing yeah not interior
designers aren't taught all of that at college
so it's it's really important that you understand
where to find the information. And we did a course,
didn't we, back when the law changed in 2023.
So BSA, Building Safety Act, principal designer
is now a different thing to senior principal
designer. So it basically means that you've got
to make sure, if you're the principal designer,
you've got to make sure that that building is
building control compliant. And it is just about
knowing where to find the information. You can't
possibly remember the entire building control.
I don't know. You do quite a good job. No, I
don't. There's always something. But it's like
you can't remember the whole. It's a massive
book. Section M is just about accessibility.
There's lots of different letters. In the alphabet.
In the alphabet and in the building regulations.
But it's about making sure that you're, just
if you don't know, don't find out. And we'll
talk about being in control. If anyone wants
to hear it, please let me know. But yeah, suitable
for use is quite important. So things like, one
of the things that I was talking to a project
manager about when we were in Greece. was she
was having an awful lot of designers who are
not specifying the right fabrics on chairs and
seats so you really need to have like a hundred
thousand rubs on a seat where there's a heavy
use restaurant if you're using a fabric if you
don't want to refurbish it every two or three
years you need to have really tough fabrics you
need to be really mindful about what you're doing
and having a faux leather on the seat is really
really um really really good for return on investment
yeah because you don't have to change that very
often you can wipe it if someone spills red wine
over it you just wipe it off with a damp cloth
so that kind of thing and making sure everything's
got the right fire ratings i mean there's a lot
involved yeah um and it's yes takes years to
learn it yeah there is a lot yeah so um yeah
compliance there you go yeah fine um so the next
thing we used to talk about was the rise of immersive
dining yeah This makes us excited. Oh my God,
I love it. I literally, every time I go out now
in my family, I go immersive experiences. You
did the Minecraft one, didn't you? Oh my God,
Minecraft in London. Yeah, the Minecraft experience
is brilliant. If anyone's got kids who like Minecraft
or not, who just wants an experience, it is like
playing a computer game. But you're in the computer
game. It's amazing. My husband just laughed at
me. I was just like getting really excited with
my 10 -year -old again. But it's like, it's...
It's just all about, it's all about that experience.
It's all about having, and people love having
a different experience, like having something
new. Exactly. And I think especially with COVID
and we went into lockdown and everyone kind of
missed out on that and missed out on doing things
and seeing people. So I think, yeah, it's definitely
on the rise, isn't it? My son, he's six. He wants
to go to the Titanic immersive. experience in
London yeah so it starts like in the middle of
July um so we're we're talking about it all he
wants to do really is he wants to put his hand
in the They've got like a bucket of how cold
the water was and he basically just wants to
touch that. So I'm not sure. Sorry about the
pun there. I liked it. But yeah, we've been to
a few, haven't we, recently? What did we do?
Christmas party. Yeah, we did the Christmas party,
58th Street. What was her name? Belle Livingstone.
Oh my God, that was amazing. And she wouldn't
even take photos. I know. So gutted. So people
just won't believe us how amazing it is. But
I get emails from them still and they're still
running tickets. So definitely recommend it if
you're up for it. Oh, it's amazing. And the food
was great as well, wasn't it? And service and
everything. It kind of ticked every single box.
We did the post office, didn't we? There's another
one as well. I think there's maybe two more in
central London. um but the post office was a
call it was really scarlet absolutely her little
face she was in absolutely awe of the cocktail
going like the airmail wasn't she she was like
oh and he said how many packages how many packages
do you yeah that's right yeah or post or drop
off or whatever but he yeah it was funny because
it's like all set in the 1940s they've all got
an accent yeah they were american yeah and it's
like designed like a speakeasy yeah it was really
good fun and like even the toilets were Nice,
weren't they? They had different toilets and
everything. So, yeah, just a really good fun,
aren't they? Hopefully we'll be able to design
something very soon. Yeah. Well, we are in Covent
Garden at the moment. Trying, aren't we? Trying
to get it in there. Yeah, immersive. So what
we're doing at the moment in this restaurant
in Covent Garden, the secret restaurant that
we do, is we're trying to get an immersive experience
where we use... video on the walls and ceilings
and sound it creates an immersive dining experience
so you feel like you're in somewhere and it's
quite difficult to do isn't it yeah you have
to shut off all the windows you have to have
a flat wall yeah they have lots of different
things and we're learning loads about it yeah
it's really yeah and even kind of fabrics and
everything for that and that's got to be plain
so if they want to use it kind of during the
day without the immersive it's It's just going
to be literally like a blank canvas, isn't it,
really? So we're in kind of, we're trying to
discuss what to do. We're sort of weighing up
on budget as well. It's going to cost, I reckon,
at least 50 grand to get all the equipment in
and the content for it as well. But one of the
things I love about it is once the equipment's
in, the content is like, it's like changing the
interior design of your restaurant. Yeah, whenever
you want to. Whenever you can afford to do it
or to create a return. Yeah. But actually, that's
the magic of it. Once it's in, it's a bit cool.
So, yeah, immersive. I just love it. We want
to try out the Dining in the Dark. What's that?
The blind by Maxine Clerkenwell. Yes. I can't
remember what it's called. It's something like
noir or something, isn't it? Like black and French.
It's something like that, isn't it? Yeah. But
what you do is you eat in the dark. Yeah. And
you don't know what you're eating. No. I really
want to do that. We should do that. We need to
do that next Clark and Well. Let's book it. But
yeah, I went to New York recently and we went
to the Mercer Labs and that was amazing. I mean,
that was just immersive. Yeah. It was just beautiful.
Full on in, aren't you? Oh my God, it was amazing.
And there was just... There was a sensory room.
There was a room with loads of mirrors and lights
in it. Why were there monkeys in like winter
and stuff? So we went into this one room where
literally all the walls, it was like a cave,
a curved wall. And all the walls were covered
in chrysanthemum flowers, pink chrysanthemum
flowers. And then every now and then there'd
be a scream. One was like on the floor, a little,
like a little. sort of a little archway like
a little mouse house yeah but like a bit bigger
than that yeah um but and then there was another
one where there was it was just a lot a few screens
dotted around and and the music that was coming
out was really beautiful and i felt like you're
in a spa and then they had um cocktails of flowers
it like edible flowers in which liam was like
um and bubbles in the bottom and then they had
um And then they had these monkeys on the screens.
They were just monkeys with crowns on. They were
like AI -created monkeys, real monkeys. And they'd
like float in the water. It was very weird, but
very cool. I've never been anywhere like that
before that felt like that. And they had all
these different things that you colour in, and
then they scan it, and then the thing that you
coloured in... was on the screen was on the screen
they have that at culture to zoo yeah yeah so
they have depending on the theme they had like
dinosaurs i think last time and then you color
it in and like you say scan it and then it they
had like a turtle one and there was like little
turtles or you could color in a fish yeah it's
really it's really clever isn't it it's really
cool And yeah, there was like a screen that you
would draw. It was just endless. I could have
spent all day in there. I think my husband got
really bored. But yeah, and we also went to the
Museum of Modern Art, which was really fun. But
yeah, I wasn't really bothered about all the
landmarks in New York. I just wanted to go in
the museum, the art stuff. Yeah, that's good
though. It's what you love. So, yeah, immersive
dining is huge and it's coming and I think it's
going to get more and more prominent in everyone's
towns. Because at the moment it's in the cities,
but I think it will filter out into the towns
as well and everyone will have an immersive dining
experience somewhere. At some point, yeah, definitely.
I'll tell you what we did. We went to the Drag
Queen Bar in Colchester, don't we? Oh, we did,
yeah. That's a bit immersive. Yeah, that was
good fun. That was so fun. Yeah. I went there
the other week as well. We did drag a yokey.
Did you? Oh, my God. Was it fun? It was so fun.
You're such a karaoke queen. So, yeah. So, what
is our favourite restaurant? This is a really
difficult one. I think it's really difficult
because, yeah, I don't know if I could put my
finger on one restaurant and say I loved it.
I could probably pick a few. that I'm like, the
interior is beautiful here and I love the food
here. I don't think, oh, I don't know, this is
quite harsh, but I don't know if I've been anywhere
that has done the whole package. Unless we've
designed them, obviously. Of course. I'll tell
you what, the forge kitchen is up there. I do
like the forge kitchen. Yeah. Yeah, Cheryl and
I designed that a few years ago, mainly Cheryl.
But yeah, that was... They've got it right in
there. Yeah, we did that for your hen do, didn't
we? Yeah. Oh, and they've got all those drinks.
Yeah. Did you have something in like a witch's
hat or something like that? Yeah, we had like
a top hat made out of metal, upside down, with
loads of cocktails in it. And it's just brilliant.
It's just... So much fun. That's immersive. Yeah,
it is, yeah. But they just do really good food.
It's just really chilled. It feels like you could
just chill there for hours. No one's going to
chuck you out or anything. They just look after
you. Yeah, that's fine. And you get small plates
and you do loads of cocktails. Cocktails are
just brilliant, aren't they? Yeah. I think that
makes it... Danger. Doesn't it? Yeah. If you
do cocktails really well, like Mr. Foggs. Yeah.
Mr. Foggs makes a Negroni. in a mechanical theme
on the back of the bar in one of their restaurants.
I think I've seen a video of it, actually. Yeah,
I had a client who wanted to do it and we did
a whole lot of research into it. It was brilliant.
And, yeah, I mean... That kind of thing is just,
it just brings people. Yeah, Scarlett and I went
to London the other week and we went to a place
called Happy, which is apparently very TikTok
famous. Obviously, Scarlett is younger and cooler
than me. She was like, we've got to go here.
We've got to go and try it. And we went in and
I ordered, I can't remember what it was called
now, but a cocktail and it came out in a pirate
treasure chest. And then you opened it up and
all this like smoke come out and it was like
this purple. It was, like, almost fluorescent
purple. But it was really lovely, like, looking.
It was very, very sweet. But, yes, it is like
the cocktails. And, like, people were, like,
look, thinking, oh, what have they got on their
table? And it's just about creating kind of hype,
isn't it, really, I think. Yeah, and experiences.
Like, you buy a drink, and it's just a drink.
You buy one of those, and it's like, oh, yeah.
And I was like, oh, let's do it. Yeah. But people
will love that. And I've been in so many immersive
places where they don't do the drink very well
because they don't need to. They don't need to.
It just draws people in. It will turn. I think
that people will start catching on. Yeah. Yeah.
Definitely. There will just be more competition.
Yeah. But, yeah, no, I think Forge Kitchen. I
love. Oh, I love Swire. I love the Ivy. All of
the Ivies. The Ivy Asia is my favourite, I think.
All of them, they just, when you go into the
idea, you just feel like you're being treated.
Yeah. Don't you? Yeah, we did, didn't we? And
he's just like, there's just so many things.
From an interior design perspective, it's just
so inspiring. Yeah, all the artwork and, like,
it's like the small detail of it all, isn't it?
Like, there was, like, some panelling, wasn't
there? And, like, the wallpaper and everything
just looked, you know, it was wallpaper panels,
wasn't there, on the back. And upholstered panels.
Yeah. And the toilets, obviously. I didn't see
the toilets. I took a video, yeah. Very pink.
Put it on your facial. Yes, yeah. So I'm sorry
that we've had to finish this off in the studio.
I hope that that gives you an idea of how to
design a restaurant a bit better. Yeah. And how
to make your restaurant more successful, or if
you're a designer, how to make your projects
more successful. If there's anything you want
to hear us talk about... Please let us know.
We'd love to hear from you and we'd love to hear
what ideas you have for the future of the Interior
Design Podcast. Yeah, lovely. We've got loads
of exciting things coming up. We've done loads
of recording. We have got a new editor, Emily.
She's in the background. And Emily's going to
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