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Welcome to the Interior Design podcast. I'm Hailey Roy. I'm a commercial interior designer

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and I have a passion for creating functional, beautiful spaces. Over the years, I've had

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the pleasure of working on a variety of projects and I've accumulated a lot of knowledge to

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share. To create this podcast for you, a lot of the episodes I've teamed up with my good

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friend Interior Designer and architectural designer Cheryl Sutton. Cheryl and I are

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very different and often have opposing views which makes for some interesting discussion.

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But it also provides you with two sides of many topics we cover. This episode, however,

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I'm riding solo with the amazing Joe Burley from Solar Ceramics who has come into the

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studio to talk everything tiles. We're planning to do a little extra video today to show you

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some products so watch out on YouTube for that one too. I started this podcast because

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I feel strongly about interior design and the importance of educating designers. A lot

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of what you hear from us, you won't learn on a course. As designers, there's so much

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we need to know to do our jobs well and we want to give you a forum where you can access

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the information you need wherever you are. Whether you're an aspiring designer, someone

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designing your own home or a seasoned professional working in residential or commercial design,

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this podcast is here to help you improve and thrive. We're not about ego-stroking interviews

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with big names, instead we focus on practical advice that you can apply directly to your

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work. You'll learn about different products, their applications and sustainability practices.

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Our goal is to equip you with the knowledge you need to excel in your projects. And remember,

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if it's not fun, we're not doing it so expect a bit of humour, a few swear words and the

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occasion of a new endo. Now, a quick note on production. We are interior designers and

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not sound producers. I am handling the editing myself, so please be patient with any technical

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glitches that happen. I am improving my production skills as the podcast progresses and I appreciate

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your understanding. If there are any editors out there who'd like to volunteer their skills

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in return for a mention, though, please feel free to reach out to me. Thank you for tuning

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into the Interior Design Podcast. Let's do this. Hello, Jo.

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Hi, Hayley.

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Welcome to the Interior Design Podcast.

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Thank you so much for having me here.

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It's so nice to have you on the sofa. We've got another new sofa. I'm very excited.

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I'm a really lovely comfy sofa.

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We are now on YouTube as well, so you can check us out on YouTube if you're listening

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on audio. So, today we're talking about tiles. Everything you need to know about tiles. Jo

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came into our studio a while ago and...

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A couple of years ago.

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A couple of years ago and I just love Jo. She's amazing. She's so knowledgeable and

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she taught me so much about things that I had... I mean, I've been doing this for a long

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time and she was teaching me stuff, so thank you for doing that, Jo. And thank you for

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coming on today. It's lovely to have you here.

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You're very welcome.

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So, tell us about you. What's your journey at Solas?

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Shall I start from the very beginning?

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Yes.

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So, when I left school with a few A-levels and I wasn't very academic, I just kind of

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fell into being a secretary because I didn't know what else to do and I was an awful secretary

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and I hated it. And then I moved to London and I found this tiny marble masonry working

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under the arches in Vauxhall where everyone was just relaxed and everyone was enjoying

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what they were doing and they needed someone in the office but I could go to work in jeans

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and it was just a lot.

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That's always good.

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Exactly. And then I just kind of fell into reactive sales so if anyone walked in off

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the street, which didn't happen very often because it was in the railway orchard in

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Vauxhall, I just kind of looked after them and it sort of grew from there. One of our

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customers there was Domus Tiles, who are one of the biggest tile specification suppliers

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in the country. They were a customer and they poached me to go and work with them. So,

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I spent just over five years working at Domus and then there were lots of kind of changes

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within the company and I felt like I wanted to move on and try something different and

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I ended up at Solus doing exactly the same thing I did at Domus. And now I'm at Solus.

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Solus was a tiny company when I joined. There were only 18 members of staff. The head office

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is based up in Birmingham and it was a really small family run business but it was just

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a really nice warm environment, really friendly people. They made me feel really welcome and

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it's worked, touch wood. I've been there for just over 20 years. We've grown from 18 people

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to over 100. We've gone from 2 million a year to an over 22 million a year.

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Oh my God. It must have changed so much.

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It has but we're still family run. We're a second generation family run business. So,

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it's still got that small family environment feeling where everyone knows everyone. So,

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if I need to speak to the guy in the sample department or one of the warehouse guys or

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someone in accounts, everyone knows everyone and it's a nice friendly environment.

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That's amazing. It must be a nice place to work if you've been there 20 years.

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Yeah, exactly. I wouldn't have stayed if they were horrible but then monthly.

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Aww, it's cool. Jo, what are you going to educate us about today?

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So one of the nicer things about working in a small company is you get to see everything.

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So although we have a marketing department and a fantastic creative director, we still

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as sales reps get to go to the tile fairs and see what's new, what's coming up, what

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the trends are around the world. So the largest tile fair, well technically the largest tile

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fair is Coverings over in America but we don't go that far. We go to Europe so in Italy in

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next week, next week I'm off to Italy. For the massive chassai tile fair it's like Olympia

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on steroids. It's enormous. They have their own land train. It's just huge. So we get

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to meet up with all the factories that we work with and there are hundreds of them.

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See what's new, pick the best bits and then bring them back to you. So over the next three

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or four months we'll be able to show you all the new exciting things that are coming

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over to Europe. Wow. That's amazing. It's a great trip. It's incredibly hard work.

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I mean last year when I was walking 40,000 steps a day for four days but it is the best

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way to lose weight. If you want to lose weight, go to an exhibition. Yeah, just walk it off.

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And then drink lots of prosecco all night long because it's Italy. Well that's always

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good. Italy's lovely. What part of Italy is it? It's in Bologna. Oh no, this is good wine.

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Great food. It's one of Parmesan cheese and the balsamic vinegar. It's just gorgeous.

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Amazing. That's so cool. Do you find, some people who do travelling as a job find it

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quite monotonous? Is that something that you feel like or is it, you know, you don't do

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it that often so it's more exciting? I don't do it often enough. Definitely. Sometimes we

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get the opportunity to take architects and designers to factories to see how tiles are

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being made and we'll try and see a few different factories and that is great fun. But yeah,

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I don't do that often enough. And then we've got Tresai and Savisama which is the Spanish

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version in May. So we've got a couple of trips a year. Nice. Yeah. Cool. So you get away and

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you enjoy it. Yeah. Because I really love travelling as well and I had a job when I

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was younger though and I was travelling to Asia like four or five times a year and I

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was just permanently jet lagged. Then it was like, it got really, I think I did about ten

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years doing that and it got really difficult in the end because I was just like, oh no,

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I'm going to jet lag again. That's a really long flight at least in a couple of hours.

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Yeah. If you're in Europe it's lovely, isn't it? So let's talk about tiles. So what are

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the basics about types of tiles that are available in the industry? If you split up manmade tiles

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from more natural things, so your limestones, marbles, terracottas, natural stones and just

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stick with tiles, generally you've got two types, porcelain tiles and ceramic tiles.

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Porcelain tiles are much harder. They're fired at higher temperatures so they're frost proof

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and stain proof and indestructible. They're manmade granite that's produced in a couple

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of hours rather than a couple of millennia. But they're as tough as nails and they will

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last forever. So they're an incredibly durable, inert, sustainable product that will outlive

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all of us. Ceramic tiles aren't quite as strong. Basically they're a glaze that's manmade

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on top of a clay biscuit base. They're fired at kind of eight, nine hundred degrees so

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they're not quite as strong. They're a little bit easier to work with. So for example if

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you were doing lots of wall tiling but needed to put in lots of holes for power points or

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shower heads or whatever, it's easier to work with a ceramic tile and cut holes than it

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is to work with porcelain tile. Having said that, the tiling contractors these days are

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very experienced with both so you shouldn't really ever have an issue with cutting holes

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and tiles. But yeah porcelain tiles definitely stronger. Generally porcelain tiles are bigger

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so ceramic tiles you can go up to 300 by 600, 300 by 900 probably but not much bigger than

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that. Porcelain tiles the largest you can get is 1.6 by 3.2 meters. So we can go from

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really small to huge. Generally when you get over about 1200 mil square tiles will change

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the way they make them. So smaller format tiles they grind up all the aggregates, the pigments,

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the powders, the felt sparks and everything they're going to put into it. It's like a

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cake recipe. They grind them up into a really fine powder, press them into a mold, pop them

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out and fire them. When they get to the really large formats they roll them out like a giant

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sheet of pasta. So they just keep rolling. Someone made a 7 meter long tile once just

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to see if they could. But for practice it's huge. You only stopped at 3.2 meters because

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that's what fits in a lorry. But they tend to be thinner so you'll be 6 mil for a rolled

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out thin tile as opposed to 9 or 10 for a normal tile. Which means third less raw materials,

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third less weight in transport, less energy required to heat them to fire them.

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To them more sustainable. They tend to be more expensive though.

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But they're more durable say they'll last longer. Well all porcelain tiles are incredibly

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durable. They still dig up Roman mosaics that give them a clean and they look like they're

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a lady yesterday kind of thing. They will outlive all of us. They'll last forever.

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So there's other types of tiles isn't there? Glass, stone and encaustic. Encaustic is

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that how you say it? Yes. So you've got all the natural stones.

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You've marbled slates, limestones which obviously not my forte but they are real stones. They

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have their own unique characteristics and beauty and quality which we try to copy with

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porcelain. Always the same. Limestones and marbles are quite porous in comparison. Granite

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is incredibly hard and durable. Slate the way it's made is made in sedimentary layers.

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So it can fracture and split. So it's a bit more fragile. Terracotta is basically like

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ceramic tiles before someone's stuck a glaze on them. But they're very traditional. You

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need to seal them. They're more porous Terracotta.

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They are yes. Then you've got quarry tiles which are similar but fired at slightly higher

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temperatures are not as porous. But those are the things that have been around for the

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longest. Thousands of years people have been using these hard surfaces, taking mud out

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of the ground and baking it to make it hard or digging marble or granite out to the ground

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and using that. Then you get onto things like encaustic tiles which are cement based tiles.

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They tend to come from Spain and Morocco and lovely gorgeous warm locations. They build

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frameworks and put metal pieces into the frameworks and pour different coloured cements in to

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make beautiful patterns. They're lovely but they are cement based so they stain. You have

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to seal them and look after them and they can be an absolute pain to deal with. Then

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we've sort of moved on to man-made porcelain tiles and ceramic tiles in the last couple

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hundred years and technologies improve them all the time. So you started taking mud out

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of the ground and baking it and using it as hard surfaces and then they started glazing

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them and then that's kind of evolved into porcelain tiles which are just the most practical

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hard surface because you don't need to seal them. You don't need to look after them too

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much. They'll never produce VACs or nasty chemicals. So from my point of view, it makes

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them really easy to sell.

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Yeah, so that was going to be one of my questions actually. What's the most sustainable? Is it

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porcelain?

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Yeah. So in what way is it sustainable?

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Probably is. I mean there are some porcelain ranges which include some recycle content.

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It's always a very tricky and grey area when people at the factories give us their recycle

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content whether it's actually post-consumer recycle content, pre-consumer recycle content

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which is a bit of an oxymoron. But yeah, there are some ranges that will include glass or

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old ceramics. But generally the most sustainable part of a tile is its longevity. The fact

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that it's all inert and it will last forever. Bream officially classed tiles as lasting

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for 60 years. Porcelain. Porcelain tiles. Porcelain, not ceramic.

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Oh, okay. We tend to use more porcelain on the floors because they're the same colour

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all the way through hopefully or similar colour all the way through and if you're unlucky

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enough to chip a ceramic tile it's going to be a different colour underneath the glaze.

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So porcelain is a bit more durable and hard wearing. But yeah, Bream say they last for

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60 years in a project but in reality they'll last for 6,000 years probably.

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Can you help us understand the difference between wall tiles, floor tiles and outdoor

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tiles?

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I can try.

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Sure you know.

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Anything that goes on the floor can go on the wall so long as the wall is strong enough

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to take the weight. But not the other way round. So you do get some wall tiles that

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normally ceramic that are just, but ceramic wall just for walls. Glass for example. Mostly

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just for walls. There are some toughened glass ranges you can use on floors and swimming

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pools and things like that. The problem is there's just so many tiles that you can normally

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find something for any location. The biggest issue is always slip resistance. So obviously

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you don't need that for the walls but for the floors we always like to know what areas

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you're tiling to make sure you've got the right slip resistance for that area. If it's

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a domestic project you can put down anything you like anywhere but we'll always advise you

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not put smooth tiles outside for example because if you've got standing water you can slip

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over.

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Should I mention things like slip ratings, R ratings and pendulum type?

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Definitely. So the European slip ratings are the R ratings if you're wearing sheep between

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R9 and R13. R9s and 10s are normally your smooth tiles that you would use inside and

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R11s and R12s have a texture to them and you'd use them outside or in wet areas. R13 you'll

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never need ever. I've in 20 something... I don't know they did have R13. Exactly. But

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in over 20 years of selling tiles I've used it once and it was in a fish gutting factory.

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Exactly. You need it in a fish gutting factory. Do you get to do lots of interesting jobs?

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Wow. So yeah basically R9s and 10s are inside 11s and 12s outside so the R11s and R12s have

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a structure to them which will stop you skidding in wet areas and ice or they're dirty. Now

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we have the pendulum test which we've had for 7, 8, 9 years. Is that PTV isn't it? PTV.

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PTV values. Yeah. So again they're measured for barefoot or shod foot areas in the same

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way that the R ratings are. So with the R ratings you've got R9 to R12 anywhere where

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you're wearing shoes and the barefoot version which is tested in the same way is A, B or

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C. Then you've got the pendulum test either barefoot or shod foot and it's just a rating

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between 0 to 150 and pendulum is a portable machine which makes it handy if you ever need

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to take one to sight. It's a friction test so an arm kind of swings over a tile, a rubber

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stopper on the end of the arm hits about 8 to 10 centimetres of tile and it's the friction

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that slows it down and it gives you a number at the end. So anything over 36, so 36 to

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150 is classed as a low risk of slipping surface but there are no rules to say what goes where.

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And you said there's a shod foot and barefoot. So what's the difference? Obviously barefoot

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is barefoot. So if you're turning a kitchen or a... Oh shod, shod as in shoes. Ah, yeah

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got it. And then you need different results if you're in the bottom of a shower or a sun

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and cool barefoot. And I can say every job is different so we all need to know who the

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client is if it's open to the public. If your floors are flat or slopey, how many people

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do you expect to go through buildings if you're inside and outside where you're tiling?

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Because every project is a bit different. But from my point of view I've got hundreds

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of years doing this so I should always be able to help you if anyone has any questions.

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So I always struggle with this because... So I generally will over specify because I'm

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kind of being cautious. So I always go R11 if I can in a toilet but you don't need that

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do you? You only need R10. Exactly. Yeah. In like a commercial toilet. Yes. If you put

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an R11 down because you've got the structure it's going to be harder to clean. And if you're

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walking on dirt rather than on tiles it's going to be slippery. Even if it's structured

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if it's covered in a layer of dirt it will be slippery if it gets wet. So more slippery.

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So you don't want to over specify. Okay. I mean this is why I'm doing the podcast because

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I can't... I just don't know everything. And I know I don't know everything and I can't

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possibly know everything. And I think the best thing for me is whenever I am specifying

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I just call the people that I know. So I've been able to call you over a few projects

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and go I'm doing this and this one's okay right? And you know and I think that's what's

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important to do is just to check with the supplier to make sure that I'm putting this

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in here is this going to be all right? No matter if you've spent six months on an interior

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design course or seven years training to be an architect both of you will have to deal

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with so many different things in your job. You have to choose lighting and soft furnishings

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and hard finishes and deal with electrics and heating and ventilator. You've got so

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many different things that you have to deal with. If you have a question speak to someone

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who has one thing to deal with. Yeah and I remember because I came from a background

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of commercial furniture fit out and we used to do a small part of interior design as part

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of our pitch to sell furniture and I always I worked with a lot of interior designers

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and I always remember kind of going well that I used to go back to people quite a lot and

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go well that's not going to work because someone had drawn something and you know I remember

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someone did something for Glen Eagle's Hotel that we made and we went back to the diner

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and said I know you've spent a lot of time making these drawings but this is going to

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be really uncomfortable. So and I always remember thinking when I started the business I decided

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that I was always going to collaborate because nobody knows the product better than the people

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who are making it and I think that's really important for designers to remember as well

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and I think a lot of people kind of go right I've got to know everything. You can't possibly

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know everything so you know rely on the people that do know and work with them. So just to

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summarize the wall tiles floor tiles outside tiles are ratings and PTB 36 ratings. R9 is

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the lowest R number and that one is for internal dry areas that aren't open to the public.

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R10. Slightly more texture still going to be smooth for internal dry areas that are open

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to the public. R11. Gonna start having a bit more structure so wet areas, external areas

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potentially pool surrounds although you'd need the... Took a shower....to go with it.

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Bottom of a shower. R11. Yeah. Anywhere where you've got standing water. R12. Basically the

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same as R11 it's just a bit more structured. And R13 is for fish gutting factories. There

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we go. You probably use it in places like Abattoirs and things like that. I bet they

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do stuff like that. Yeah canning factories maybe, food production if they've got... Yeah

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I'm sure there's people, architects who specify things like that. I don't think the fish gutting

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factory is going to invite me to come in and interior design. But I would love that. I'd

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love to do the toilets. There's some really cool fish wallpaper. Brand McKenzie doing

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an amazing one which is like a really good toilet wallpaper. I'm waiting to do a fish

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restaurant. If there's any fish restaurants out there please, please get in touch with

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me because I would love to interior design your toilets. Just saying. Putting out to

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the universe. So... Do you want me to talk a bit about how tiles are made and some innovations?

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Yes I'd love that. Yeah so we've obviously talked about the tiles are made spraying all

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the raw ingredients into moulds or rolling them out in giant sheets. But a lot of the

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factories now are becoming a bit more sustainably minded and a bit more eco-focused. We work

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with one factory who are B Corp certified which is great. Can you explain what B Corp

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certified means? I can try. Sorry. B Corp is kind of a holistic approach to generally

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being a really nice company so it doesn't just look at what you make or how you make

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it or where you buy your raw ingredients from. It looks at whether you recycle your rubbish,

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how you produce your energy, how many women or older people you employ, what you do for

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your local community. So one of the largest Italian factories that we work with is a company

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called Florium in Italy. They have an enormous facility over in Italy. They have great big

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auditorium in the middle of their building for exhibition and things like that. Wow.

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They give that space over to local schools and universities to use. They provide buses

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so their staff can get to work without having to drive. They produce all their own electricity

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obviously because they've got pro-terial tape. Panels on the roofs and the roofs are massive

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and any excess energy they give to the local community. So it's things like that that tick

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B Corp boxes and there's something ridiculous like 140 different boxes you've got to try

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and tick to achieve B Corp status. So very few people have got it. We've got two trial

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manufacturers that we work with who have B Corp. They must be big companies aren't they?

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It's actually weirdly easier for a small company to become B Corp than it is for a big company

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because you have less involvement with outside resources and other things going on. So if

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it was you and you had more control, yeah, if you did something like a mini wind turbine

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or photovoltaic panels to make your own energy and you had some recycling bins it would probably

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be easier for you to get B Corp. I just assumed that it would be like the big corporations

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that would have the time to be able to do the exercise. Well, yeah, there is definitely

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time involved in doing the exercise but yeah, when you have thousands of employees it's

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a bit harder to... Interesting.

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...to use those mini boxes. So the previous episode that we had on the

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Interior Design podcast with Hannah Tempore about regenerative interior design, we were

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talking about all of this and sort of how do you know? Like how do you know if it's

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a good product to specify? Like there's so many things. So B Corp sounds like it's a

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good regulation to be following. And it sounds like that sort of thing will probably grow.

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Yes, and there is a European equivalent called E-MOS which is... Oh no, sorry not E-MOS,

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there's so many certification. ECOvardus is a European holistic approach to looking at

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companies as a whole. So a lot of our factories have ECOvardus as well. But we also speak

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to them all about whether they've got ISO certification. So ISO would cover sustainability

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as well, would it? ISO is more to do with internal processes within companies.

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I thought it was a quality thing. Is it more quality? Yeah. Yeah, quality control.

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I sell tiles Haley. I know, but I'm a geek, I just want to know everything. What I'll

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do is put some show notes in of these companies that we're talking about, the ISO and the

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B Corp and just make sure that there's a link in there. But the big one these days is EPD.

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EPDs? So EPD is the environmental product declaration. It's basically an identity card

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for whatever you're buying, whether it's a carpet or a table or a light fitting or a

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tile. Anyone that produces a product that you can buy should be able to give you an

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EPD. It's an independently assessed certification. So an independent assessor has to go to a

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factory or a group of factories. There are three different levels of EPD, which I'll

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tell you about. And independently assess that company to trace where their raw materials

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are coming from and the carbon footprint of the production and transport of those raw

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materials. And in our case, where the raw materials are dug up from and shipped to the

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factory, the carbon footprint involved in firing our tiles. And then there's a section

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on the carbon footprint for getting those tiles from the factory to the site, which

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is always a bit of a difficult one. Sites move all over the place. And then there'll

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be a carbon footprint for installing that product. So if it's a table, carbon footprint

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or blizzero because there's no installation carbon produced, if it's a tile, you've got

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adhesive and grouts and those things have carbon footprints. And then there's the other

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side of it where cleaning and maintenance and ongoing looking after of a product that

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will also have a carbon footprint. So carpet has a higher carbon footprint for its ongoing

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life than a tile does because you need to steam clean or use chemicals or detergents

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to clean products electricity and electricity. Exactly. You've got a Hoover. Obviously, assuming

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everyone has got a Hoover. That's true. And also the afterlife of a product. So when

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you've taken your carpet up, whether it's recycled, whether it's burnt, what carbon

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footprint of that would be and what you do with your tiles, most tiles end up as aggregate

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and hardcore. Because when you take them up, they bring half the flooring, the adhesive

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and with them and you can't separate that out. So they ended up coming hardcore. So there

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is an afterlife, but there's not a cradle to cradle. There are two for any tiles. There

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are two companies in the world who have cradle to cradle certification. And it is not possible

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at the moment. No one has the facilities to clean off those tiles and send them all the

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way back to Italy. I mean, the carbon footprint involved in that is pointless. So they are

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crushed up and used for aggregate. And 93% of all tiles that come out of building sites

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are reused as hardcore. So they do have an afterlife. They won't go into the ground,

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they won't leach anything, they won't produce VACs or anything like that, but they'll go

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on and do something. Carpet, obviously, 75% of carpet that's taken up is burnt for fuel,

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which is not nice.

331
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Yes, there's so many, there's so much. I kind of talk about this a lot. I want there to

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be a regulation that can just everyone has to do by 2027 or something or whatever that

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everyone has to be there. And if they're, you know, it's really difficult to specify.

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To Parliament in 2022 requiring contractors and architects to design and build to minimum

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carbon footprints. But it was stalled in Parliament at the second reading last year because the

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government were worried that if they made it law, which they all want to and should

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do and would be sensible to do, but they were worried that if they made it law, it would

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put building costs up.

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It's going to, yeah.

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But then government did not want to start putting any costs up for anyone. So it all

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got stalled in Parliament and nothing's happening with it.

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Yeah, I think that's the trouble, isn't it? No one can bite the bullet and be the bad

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guy on it.

344
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Exactly.

345
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Yeah.

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Joe, you're so knowledgeable. I love all the things that you know. It's great.

347
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Thank you.

348
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So in terms of supply chain, how does that work with what you do? So you work for Solus

349
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ceramics.

350
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:30,840
I do, yes.

351
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And you stock in the UK?

352
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Not a huge amount. The interesting thing about working at Solus is we work in all sorts

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of different sectors. So there'll be corporate clients that we stock tiles for and bits and

354
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pieces that we keep in stock in the UK, but generally everything comes into order. So

355
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it takes about three weeks.

356
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We work with 250 factories, something ridiculous like that. Almost all of them are based in

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Central Europe. So to ship their tiles from there to us, we go over with lorries, fill

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them up to the brim and then drive them back. So normally it takes about two weeks. August,

359
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the factories tend to shut down.

360
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All of Europe shuts down except the UK, doesn't it?

361
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So we need a holiday in Europe.

362
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That takes longer then.

363
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Hint, hint government.

364
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Yes, that would be lovely.

365
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I feel like I'm talking to the government and they're not probably not listening.

366
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They're not listening to us.

367
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We actually now have two factories that we work with who are based in the UK producing

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products, tiles in the UK, which is just lovely. So we work with a quarry tile manufacturer

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who's based in West Midlands about 10 miles from our head office, who produce beautiful

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quarry tiles.

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And now we work with a Manchester based Terratso manufacturer who are making a range of Terratso

372
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tiles for.

373
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Oh, Terratso is really on trend at the moment, isn't it?

374
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It is, yeah.

375
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I did read somewhere the other day that Terratso is on the way out already.

376
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Really?

377
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So yeah, they just come back.

378
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I know, right?

379
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,800
Yeah, it's lovely. The nicest thing about the ones we have made in Manchester is that

380
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they try to source their raw materials locally. So you've got English limestones, Scotland

381
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produce marbles, which I didn't know, but you can get marble from Scotland.

382
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Wales obviously for slate.

383
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They also team up with the guys in the West Midlands at the quarry tile manufacturers and

384
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take broken quarry tiles and can put them in.

385
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But we can also take building waste from building sites.

386
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So old glass, old bricks, old marble that's coming out of the building site instead of

387
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going into landfill or being used as hardcore, we can take it, clean it and put it into Terratso

388
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tiles that can then go back to site when it's big.

389
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That's a reason to use Terratso, isn't it?

390
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Because it's all Terratso tiles recycled.

391
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:43,360
No, no.

392
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Originally, back in Roman times probably, they mixed the cement that they were building

393
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with with broken marble chips.

394
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So it was a way of using leftovers and offcuts and broken stuff.

395
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And then as with all things, when it becomes popular, you have to start breaking the marble

396
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to make them all Terratso.

397
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,800
Yeah, there's always going to be a certain amount of breakages and offcuts that end up

398
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in the Terratso tiles.

399
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:15,600
So there is a recycle content, but those original marble chips that end up in the Terratso

400
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,760
tiles weren't necessarily used before.

401
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,960
So they would be pre-consumer, not post-consumer recycle content.

402
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:26,280
At least now, yeah, we've got the ability to put actual recycle content into tiles.

403
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,000
So basically anything inert, you can put nuts and bolts and screws in.

404
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,600
We've done a project where they put marbles in the tiles and then polygum up and they

405
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:34,600
look...

406
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,200
You're talking about Terratso tiles, so you're not talking about porcelain or ceramic.

407
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:38,200
These are actual Terratso...

408
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:39,200
They're made with cement.

409
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,200
So how's it made?

410
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,160
Okay, so literally looks like a cake mix.

411
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:51,040
They mix cement and water and aggregates, whatever it is that's going into it, mix it all together.

412
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,240
So all those chips would go all the way through, they're not just on the surface.

413
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,440
Put it into molds and cure it.

414
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,040
So with making porcelain or ceramic, it's the firing process.

415
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:07,800
So the majority of the carbon footprint is in the fossil fuels used to fire the tiles.

416
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:13,120
With cement, most of the carbon footprint is in the production of the cement.

417
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,600
And then once they've made the tiles, they're just left to cure.

418
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:17,600
To just dry out.

419
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,760
It's a chemical process.

420
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,640
And I am not a chemist.

421
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:22,640
They cure.

422
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,360
Let's leave it at that.

423
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:25,880
They cure with chemicals.

424
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:31,280
Yeah, it takes a few weeks for them to cure properly and you don't want to ship Terratso

425
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,240
tiles when they're still wet because they can't walk.

426
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:39,320
So always Terratso tiles will be on a 10-12 week lead time, even if it's made in the UK.

427
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,800
Do they not make it in sheets and stock it?

428
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:42,800
Anything.

429
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:43,800
Some do.

430
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,040
Normally they're made in blocks.

431
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,440
Like natural stodas quarried in big cubes.

432
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,000
They make Terratso in blocks and then cut them so that...

433
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,680
Bit like a slice of bread.

434
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:54,680
Yes.

435
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:59,240
That way you can have a 20mm thick or a 30mm or a 50mm and it's all cut to order and then

436
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,200
you can cut your sheets into 30mm thick.

437
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,200
It's like having lots of cakes, isn't it?

438
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:05,200
Yeah.

439
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,960
Lots of cakes that you're just sitting in there and then you cut it when you want to take

440
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:08,960
one off.

441
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:09,960
I'm talking about cake.

442
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:10,960
Do you want some cake?

443
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:11,960
We should have got cake.

444
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:12,960
Always were our podcast.

445
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:13,960
Yeah.

446
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:14,960
Next time.

447
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:15,960
Tea and biscuits.

448
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:16,960
Yeah.

449
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:17,960
Why didn't we get cake?

450
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:18,960
I'm so sorry.

451
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,280
So how are porcelain tiles made?

452
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,120
You said about fire.

453
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:24,640
Porcelain and ceramic made in the same way.

454
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,360
Yeah, they're all still fired in big long kilns.

455
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,600
It's just that a ceramic tile is basically just clay.

456
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,840
It's not fired at such high temperatures and then it's glazed over the top.

457
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,800
With porcelain tiles there, they grind through all materials.

458
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,360
I've been to really fine crowned it room, so press it into moulds or roll it out into

459
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,040
sheets.

460
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,120
Sometimes they're the same colour all the way through, whether they're kind of stony-looking

461
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,200
or plain colours.

462
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,000
Sometimes they're glazed and printed on the surface, but it's glazed in porcelain, on

463
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:57,640
porcelain so it won't wear off all your marble veins and wood effects and metallic effects.

464
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:58,920
They're all a print surface.

465
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,720
The glaze has gone on top of the tile and then it's fired.

466
00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:02,720
How thick is that glaze in?

467
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:03,720
Is it really thin?

468
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:04,720
It's really thin.

469
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:05,720
Yeah.

470
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:06,720
Yeah, really thin.

471
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:10,240
So if you hit it with a hammer and you're unlucky enough to chip the surface, ideally

472
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:15,440
you want on a glazed porcelain tile, you want the body of the tile to be as similar in colour

473
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,320
to what's going on on the surface so that you wouldn't really notice it, but hitting

474
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,160
and breaking a porcelain tile is really hard, they're really dense.

475
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,800
It's easier to break a ceramic tile.

476
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,760
So in terms of what's the composition, so a ceramic and porcelain tiles are made in

477
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,160
the same way, but just from different materials?

478
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:32,160
Yes.

479
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,960
So ceramic is obviously more traditional and less ingredients go into it.

480
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,720
With porcelain, they've been tweaked and refined over the years.

481
00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:40,720
To make it better.

482
00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:41,720
To make it stronger.

483
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:42,720
Yeah.

484
00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:49,120
So you've got felt spa, you've got sand, got different pigments, you've got porcelain.

485
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,640
So basically ceramic is like the old fashioned way of doing it and porcelain is like the

486
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:54,640
evolved.

487
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,640
It's a bit more, yeah, a bit more advanced.

488
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:57,640
Definitely.

489
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:58,640
That's interesting.

490
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:03,680
But don't tell the ceramic manufacturer is that.

491
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,520
Because they definitely do produce beautiful, lovely things.

492
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:07,520
Yeah.

493
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,000
Yeah, it's easier to get patterns and pictures and things.

494
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,880
If you want designed tiles like drawings or pictures or stuff printed onto tiles and

495
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,400
we'll print them onto a ceramic tile because it's easier to do.

496
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:20,400
Okay.

497
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:26,960
It's easier to print onto a ceramic than porcelain because porcelain is harder and has to cure.

498
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,080
No, it doesn't have to cure.

499
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,040
Fire, be fired.

500
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,800
They would both have to be fully.

501
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:40,080
Honestly, because printing onto tiles has been around for so long, you can imagine all

502
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:44,040
the Moroccan blues and whites and all the pictures and stuff.

503
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,920
Everyone's been putting pictures and designs onto tiles for a long time.

504
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,560
And traditionally they've always gone on to ceramic tiles.

505
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,600
So although I could get a porcelain tile manufacturer to produce a bespoke tile, they

506
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:02,440
just want thousands and thousands of square meters to bother to retool and do it.

507
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:07,800
Whereas ceramic manufacturers, because they, that's what they do all day, every day, it's

508
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:13,640
much easier to tweak a production line and grow in a few bespoke tiles.

509
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,360
And you can make smaller quantities quicker.

510
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:16,360
Oh, okay.

511
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:17,360
It's interesting.

512
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:23,160
How do you choose the right tile for different spaces like bathrooms, kitchen, living areas,

513
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:24,160
commercial?

514
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,400
Where do we, what's your advice on that?

515
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,120
First, we have to split it up between whether it's residential or commercial and whether

516
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:31,400
it's walls or floors.

517
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,880
So if you're doing a residential project, you can in theory use anything you like.

518
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,240
I mean, when I moved into my house, we have polished, shiny tiles on the bathroom floor,

519
00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:42,400
which are incredibly slippery and you'd never recommend it.

520
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,160
But if it's your own home, you really can do whatever you like.

521
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,680
As designers or suppliers, it's our job to recommend not to put shiny tiles around swimming

522
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:54,560
pools or in the bottom of a shower, but honestly, for residential, there are no rules.

523
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:59,040
For commercial, we will need to know if it's open to the public.

524
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,920
So you have to have that magic.

525
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,320
He TV plus 36.

526
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,760
It really comes down to slit resistance and aesthetics and design, so you know, how you

527
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,400
want it to look, how your client wants it to look.

528
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:15,480
And then it comes down to people like me finding the right slit resistance for the certain

529
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,040
areas that you're tightening.

530
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:22,280
So it always used to be that male and female toilets, floors, for example, could be an R9,

531
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,040
but disabled had to be an R10.

532
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,560
I think that probably still says that in the R rating rules, but they're ancient.

533
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,720
And now we obviously have the PTV rules as well.

534
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:36,760
So if it's open to the public, we just say R10 plus 36 because it's the safest thing

535
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,280
for everything internal and dry.

536
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,080
I love that you do R and PTV.

537
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,120
Some people do R and some people do PTV.

538
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:44,120
Okay.

539
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,240
Legally, you have to have the PTV ratings open to the public.

540
00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:48,240
Yeah.

541
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:52,160
If someone slips over in a shopping center floor and you can't say it's an R10, it should

542
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:53,160
be fine.

543
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,160
And you have to have the PTV rating legally.

544
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,600
But the PTV rating has no rules as to what goes where.

545
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:00,840
Is that legally in the UK?

546
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:01,840
Yeah.

547
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,080
Because is that in Europe as well?

548
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:04,320
No, only the UK.

549
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:05,320
Okay.

550
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:06,320
And what about the US?

551
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:13,640
The US uses the ASTM standard or the turtle test, which is a little machine that moves

552
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:18,160
over the tile or the wood or whatever your surface is.

553
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:19,480
And it measures resistance.

554
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,080
It's got little pins inside that measure resistance.

555
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:24,080
And it's called the turtle test.

556
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:25,080
The turtle test.

557
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:26,080
Tortoise test.

558
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:27,560
Because the shape of the machine, I think.

559
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:28,560
Cool.

560
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:29,560
It's the ASTM test.

561
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:34,480
And because the American market is huge, all the European manufacturers, they'll test the

562
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,680
R rating and they'll test the ASTM and give you certificates.

563
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:42,560
Because the British market is quite small, we tend to do all our pendulum testing in

564
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:43,800
the UK.

565
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,240
That way we can also guarantee that it's done properly.

566
00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:51,440
So when you pendulum test a tile, you have to pendulum test it horizontally, vertically

567
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:56,080
and diagonally eight times each way in the wet and in the dry.

568
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,460
And when you do, no one slips over in the dry, so you don't really ever need the dry

569
00:39:59,460 --> 00:40:01,000
pendulum test results.

570
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,360
But the barefoot or the shod foot wet result is what you need.

571
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,600
Every single time you swing the pendulum, you are then supposed to get it wet again.

572
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,680
And we have found that some of the European factories didn't quite realise that.

573
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,160
So as the pendulum got drier, their results got better.

574
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,480
So we do all of our pendulum testing in-house.

575
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,080
I know how to pendulum test, but I'm not allowed to.

576
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,240
Our pendulum testers are certified.

577
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:29,040
They go away every year and get their training assessed.

578
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,480
The machines are sent away every year and recalibrated.

579
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,120
So it's all a legal requirement that we do not exit up.

580
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,640
Is that just for tiles that all flooring?

581
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,080
I'm sure I had a conversation with someone the other day and they said, oh, we haven't

582
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,600
got the pendulum test, only the R.

583
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,640
Well, the R ratings have been around forever.

584
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,120
When you get your products, they come with the R ratings.

585
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:48,120
Yeah.

586
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:49,240
Because factories do them.

587
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:54,760
If you imagine a range of tiles that has 10 or eight colours, every single time they

588
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,520
produce them, they'll always be the same R rating.

589
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,480
Every batch of every colour of every tile ever produced will have a different pendulum test

590
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:02,840
rating result.

591
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,680
So if you say it's going in a public area, I can give you stuff that consistently gets

592
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,680
over 36 or over 40 to be safe.

593
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,240
But you can batch test specific batches of tiles.

594
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:17,080
So 36 would be for what areas?

595
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,160
That's the problem with the pendulum test.

596
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,960
There's no instructions that say what goes where.

597
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,440
So 36 to 150 is a massive range.

598
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:30,480
I have very smooth R9 tiles that consistently get over 36 on the pendulum.

599
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:36,520
I've had one guy years ago now who tried to put smooth tiles around a swimming pool and

600
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,040
we said to you, you can't, they're smooth.

601
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:39,600
And he said, but it's plus 36.

602
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:40,600
They're fine.

603
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:41,600
So they really aren't.

604
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:42,600
You have to use common sense.

605
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,160
That's why we always do R ratings.

606
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,720
I was going to say, yeah, a lot of people do both, don't they?

607
00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:48,720
Definitely.

608
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:51,640
Because the R ratings are sensible and there's a list of instructions that say, if you're

609
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:52,800
doing this, use that.

610
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:58,600
So as an interior designer, you would have to make a judgment on that for where you're

611
00:41:58,600 --> 00:41:59,600
putting it.

612
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,000
And that would be that the owners would be on you, wouldn't it?

613
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,000
Yeah.

614
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,000
Really, not on the manufacturer.

615
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,440
Yeah, it stands on you and your client, what you specify.

616
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,840
We can only advise you.

617
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,280
With the case of the guy who wanted smooth tiles around a swimming pool, I refused to

618
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:15,280
supply him.

619
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:16,280
Really?

620
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:17,280
But that's about the end.

621
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:18,280
Yeah.

622
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,760
Not often, very often, but that was kind of dangerous.

623
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:26,600
So I can advise you, but ultimately what you put down is up to you and your client.

624
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:31,480
If it's open to the public, you really do need to have plus 36 on the pendulum.

625
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:36,360
But yeah, if it's outside, everything's going to be plus 36.

626
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,160
So yeah, you need to have the R ratings as well because they're sensible.

627
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,240
Current trends in tile design.

628
00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:43,920
This is such a difficult one to answer.

629
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,360
Patterns, colors and the textures.

630
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:51,720
It's such a difficult one to answer because everyone's views and opinions differ so much.

631
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:56,880
I can tell you that since COVID, I have a theory that during COVID, where we were all

632
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:01,360
at home and our homes are lovely and soft and cozy and colorful and they're not gray

633
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:02,360
boxes.

634
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:09,000
So since COVID, we've had a lot more requests for colorful tiles and more natural tones.

635
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,560
So terracotta's, warmer browns and greens.

636
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:17,120
Yeah, lots of, there's lots more biofilling projects happening.

637
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,000
People putting plants into their buildings.

638
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,800
So green is very popular at the moment and terracotta is really popular.

639
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,680
So we went to the Dulux Awards.

640
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:27,000
Yeah, you sang color from the year.

641
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,040
I keep saying awards because I did the awards last year.

642
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:37,800
The Dulux launch, the global launch for their color of the year 2025.

643
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:42,680
And it was called a color called True Joy, which is very similar to these cushions.

644
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,680
So I was quite chuffed because I was like, oh, you're a trendsetter.

645
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:46,680
You're a head of the plant.

646
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:47,680
Started that.

647
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,720
And we ordered these cushions for the HRC last year.

648
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:55,520
But yeah, True Joy, and it's a beautiful, fun, uplifting color, but all the palettes

649
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:56,520
that they did.

650
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:03,040
And if anyone's interested to learn more about this, there's a reel on my social media of

651
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,680
the event the other night with the palettes on it.

652
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:12,280
And I'm actually going to ask my rep at Dulux to send me all the little paint pots and just

653
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:17,280
do a little thing on the wall with it because the palettes are so different because this

654
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:22,040
color can be used with other colors of the same tone or it can be used with really earthy

655
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:23,040
colors.

656
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,040
It's so versatile.

657
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:30,640
And yeah, a lot of them were what you've just described, terracotta, really kind of

658
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,040
natural colors and things like that.

659
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:39,760
I mean, not to do ourselves out of sales, but from a sustainability point of view, we always

660
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:45,000
tell people to design commercial projects or big projects, design neutral.

661
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:51,400
And then when you want color and warmth, bring that in in fabric, furniture, things that

662
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,080
can be reupholstered, rugs that can be moved around and replaced.

663
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,720
Anything that's permanent and going to stay glued to the walls or the floors, it makes

664
00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:01,520
sense to go neutral and inoffensive.

665
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:02,520
Base.

666
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:03,520
Yes, definitely.

667
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:08,960
Because a gray floor tile or a white floor tile will go with your True Joy yellow.

668
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:09,960
True Joy.

669
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,160
The event was so inspiring.

670
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:13,640
It was just brilliant.

671
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:18,200
What they're saying is that we're taking a leap next year.

672
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:23,640
Like we've had COVID, we've had all these tough times over the last few years with Brexit

673
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,760
and everyone's struggling with the costs of living.

674
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:27,760
Everyone's been quite cautious.

675
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,240
You really do need some True Joy in our life.

676
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:34,560
Yeah, and it's like taking a leap and it's about taking a leap into next year and actually

677
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:39,640
people are going to start taking more risks and being more bright and bold is the theory.

678
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,040
So yeah, I was going, oh, it's so good.

679
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,480
I mean, I do sell yellow tiles, but yeah.

680
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:46,480
Great.

681
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:47,480
We'll see them.

682
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:54,680
We're going to do a little video after this on YouTube about the tiles because Jo's very

683
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:59,160
lovely people who can hear this, can't see this, but she's sitting next to a really cool

684
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:05,360
board and Jo is my kind of person because she's done all of these mood boards from the

685
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,520
tiles of her range and they just look brilliant.

686
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:12,240
So I really want to show our following on YouTube.

687
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:14,720
So we'll do a little video next.

688
00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:15,920
Yes, we're going to do that.

689
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,120
So watch out for that.

690
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,200
So trends, what else is trendy?

691
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:22,200
We talked about terracotta.

692
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,360
I mean, I don't think terracotta is going anywhere.

693
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:25,960
I think not terracotta, sorry.

694
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:26,960
We talked about terrazzo.

695
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:28,960
I don't think it's going anywhere.

696
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:30,520
You're right with both actually.

697
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,200
I mean, real terracotta and real terrazzo have been around forever.

698
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:35,400
They're always going to be around.

699
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:40,920
I'm sure Tesco's and all the supermarkets use terrazzo on their floors.

700
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:47,400
I'm weirdly witting lots of distilleries and wineries using real terracotta.

701
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,680
We're working on a project called Wesley Park Garden Centre at the moment for their restaurant.

702
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,800
It's like a 300 seater restaurant.

703
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,160
And I was with Hannah yesterday.

704
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:02,440
We were designing it and she was helping me sort of order fabrics and things.

705
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:07,240
And I was saying what we're trying to achieve is a base.

706
00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:13,000
We're using the pattern fabrics and the stuff that's going to go out of fashion in a few

707
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,600
years on cushions.

708
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:19,040
Which will get worn and therefore need replacing anyway.

709
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:20,040
Exactly.

710
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:21,040
Real holstering anyway.

711
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,400
They'll get pinched or whatever.

712
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,200
So in the commercial.

713
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,080
The base build for the background of the building.

714
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:35,960
So the base of the design is all like browns and greens and dark kind of rich colours.

715
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:41,040
And then we've got wallpaper on the wall behind the fixed seating which could be redecorated

716
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:42,360
for example.

717
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:47,320
But the redecoration will probably happen way ahead of the re-upholstery.

718
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:52,360
So we've used materials on the upholstery that are 100,000 plus rubs.

719
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,880
So it looks like a faux leather that we've used a lot in different tones of different.

720
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,800
But it's all very kind of neutral.

721
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:03,280
It's like browns and tans and dark greens and things like that.

722
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,080
And then we're going to put the table tops in.

723
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,200
I think it's going to be a tile top.

724
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:09,200
Okay.

725
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:13,520
There's one of our suppliers has just started doing a range of tiled table tops with brass

726
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:14,520
edges.

727
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:15,520
It's awesome.

728
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:16,520
Yeah.

729
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:17,520
Probably use something like that.

730
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,240
And then like on the chairs we're going to use like I think we're going to do pops of

731
00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:21,240
colour.

732
00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:23,080
So we're going to do five or six chairs in yellow.

733
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:24,080
Yes.

734
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:25,480
We were trying to get yellow into it yesterday.

735
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,280
And like we've got to get yellow into this scheme.

736
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,480
It's like asking for it, especially after finding out about the colour of the year next

737
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:31,480
year.

738
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:32,480
So yeah.

739
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:37,280
So we've gone like, I think we've only got eight chairs in the whole scheme of 300 seats

740
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,400
that are bright yellow, but they're going to be standing out.

741
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,000
So you might not like those in a few years, but there's only eight of them, you know?

742
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,280
So it's that kind of way of designing, isn't it?

743
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,520
That's how to be sustainable.

744
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:53,840
If it's permanent and stuck down, then neutral is sensible.

745
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,280
And yeah, bring in the colour and chairs that can be repainted and reupholstered.

746
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:58,840
We've got some of your tiles in there.

747
00:48:58,840 --> 00:48:59,840
I've got the green tiles.

748
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:00,840
Lovely.

749
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:01,840
I'm going to stack.

750
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:02,840
Yeah, nice.

751
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:03,840
Is it called stack bond?

752
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:04,840
Stack?

753
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:05,840
Yes.

754
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:06,840
Stack bond when you put them on top of each other.

755
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:07,840
Yeah.

756
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:08,840
Stack bond.

757
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:09,840
I suppose it's like it.

758
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:10,840
Love, love.

759
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,840
Sustainable and eco-friendly tile options.

760
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:18,840
What advice have you got around that?

761
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,840
Well, we've kind of covered sustainable design.

762
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:27,840
Obviously, if it's if it's glued down, it's more sustainable to be neutral so that it

763
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:28,840
lasts forever.

764
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:33,240
I mean, if you're designing a new building, if you put carpet in one area and tile in

765
00:49:33,240 --> 00:49:38,640
another area in 10 years time, when someone new comes in, they tend to change but stick

766
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:39,640
with the same type.

767
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:44,480
So if it's carpet first, it always is carpet in every reiteration.

768
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,120
And if it's tile, it always stays tile.

769
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:50,720
But if it's going to be stuck down, the most sustainable thing is to keep it as neutral

770
00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:56,080
as possible so that it doesn't offend anyone and can stay for as long as possible.

771
00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:00,040
When you talk about sustainability and manufacturer, we've obviously got the EPD paperwork now

772
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:01,720
from almost all of our manufacturers.

773
00:50:01,720 --> 00:50:03,520
That's all we were going to do.

774
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,120
It's going to explain the different types of EPDs to you.

775
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:07,120
Oh.

776
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:08,120
After talking about it.

777
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:09,120
Cool.

778
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:15,920
So this EPD is the environmental product declaration, the identity card of any product.

779
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,560
It's quite expensive to do because they're independently assessed.

780
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:23,240
You're looking at between 6 and 10,000 euros to be independently assessed to get an EPD

781
00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:25,160
and it can take a bit of time.

782
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:33,400
But I would urge all designers to audit their suppliers and get as many EPDs as they can.

783
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:34,400
EPDs.

784
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:35,400
EPDs.

785
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:36,400
Yeah.

786
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:37,400
Environmental product declaration.

787
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,200
It will give you the carbon footprint of everything.

788
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:46,600
So if rules come into place, at the moment it's all voluntary to build buildings to maximum

789
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,120
carbon footprints per square meter.

790
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,040
If it becomes compulsory, then you will need all this.

791
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,960
But at the moment it's voluntary, so it's advisable to have all this and try and be

792
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,840
as good friends as possible and keep the carbon footprints down.

793
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:03,320
So you get three different types of EPD and Breanne will give you points depending upon

794
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,280
how good your EPD is.

795
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:10,920
A lot of the smaller factories have clubbed together and been assessed as a group and

796
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:12,520
that's called an industry-wide EPD.

797
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:13,520
So it could be 10 or 12.

798
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:14,520
Yeah.

799
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,120
If you're all a bit smaller, don't want to fork out all that money clubbed together.

800
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:19,800
So it does give you useful information.

801
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:21,160
It is a useful thing.

802
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,280
It's just not as detailed as some of the others.

803
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:29,320
And then you've got a factory EPD where the assessors will look at a factory as a whole

804
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:35,600
and all their production lines, which is obviously much more focused and relevant.

805
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:41,320
And then some factories, very few, have forked out to do an EPD for every single range that

806
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:42,320
they do.

807
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:47,800
So it's really important, but obviously the most accurate information of all generally

808
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:53,160
tiles have a carbon footprint of about 10 kilograms of carbon per square meter.

809
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:58,040
So that is 10 kilograms of carbon are produced when making a square meter of tiles.

810
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,960
That can be hanging around in the atmosphere for 100 years.

811
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:09,240
So we need trees and grasses and seaweeds and things to absorb the carbon dioxide.

812
00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:17,320
But we're obviously as a species producing more carbon than there are enough trees and

813
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,240
things to remove, which is why we've got the greenhouse effect.

814
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:23,520
So we need to reduce as much carbon as possible.

815
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:27,400
Some of our factories are doing carbon offsetting.

816
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,400
Now tree planting is great, but you don't plant trees.

817
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,280
You plant saplings and it'll take 10 years before a tree is actually absorbing enough

818
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:37,160
carbon to make it useful.

819
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:42,480
So tree planting offsetting and schemes are a bit misleading.

820
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,680
They're not going to be offsetting for years and years.

821
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:50,480
Technologies that absorb carbon and sink it and lock it up into the ground so it can't

822
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,120
be in the atmosphere.

823
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:58,800
Technologies that take coal producing power plants out and replace them with wind or

824
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:00,640
solar, that kind of thing.

825
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,400
So technological advances that actually do some good.

826
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,960
So we do have factories doing lovely things like that.

827
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,760
Yeah, we've got sustainable production and sustainable design.

828
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,480
Is there certain ranges in your products that are more sustainable than others?

829
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:16,480
Yes.

830
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:20,000
I mean, it does tend to be the bigger factories who have got more money and can afford to do

831
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:21,000
better things.

832
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:27,680
So we work with teeny tiny factories who produce handmade tiles occasionally and produce terracotta

833
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:28,920
tiles and things like that.

834
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:33,680
And they can't be bothered, will not spend the money, will never get any PD.

835
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:39,560
And then we work with giant enormous factories who have solar panels on every roof and wind

836
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:41,680
turbines and the car parks.

837
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,960
One factory built their own lake so they don't pick water from the local community, got their

838
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:50,200
own water supply and they are ready so they don't take it away from the local community.

839
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:51,200
Obviously water.

840
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:56,000
So do they do they recycle that water in the same way as it does it get used and used?

841
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:57,000
Yes.

842
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:58,000
Yeah.

843
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,200
And obviously topped up from the rain, but it also means that when they get round to

844
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:06,480
moving over to green hydrogen manufacturer, they've got the water there ready to split

845
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,480
it into hydrogen.

846
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,080
So what does green hydrogen manufacturer mean?

847
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:16,360
So firing at the moment when you fire tiles, you use fossil fuels, you use gas.

848
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,200
So that was obviously an issue with the Russian gas thing.

849
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:24,160
But yeah, they've stabilized supply since then.

850
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,400
So it is fossil fuels that fire tiles.

851
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:32,560
If you can take out some of that fossil fuel energy and replace it with hydrogen, that's

852
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:33,560
great.

853
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:37,200
There are different types of hydrogen, not my area of expertise.

854
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,760
But when we talk about green hydrogen, it means the hydrogens come from water.

855
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,320
So it's water powered.

856
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:44,320
Yes.

857
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:45,320
Yeah.

858
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:52,920
And clever buffins, split the atom and then use the hydrogen and what's left over is steam,

859
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:56,720
which is obviously inert and not going to cause anything else.

860
00:54:56,720 --> 00:55:01,000
But hydrogen kills the different shapes to normal kilns.

861
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,120
Hydrogen is odourless and colourless.

862
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,520
And if you have a leak, you don't know.

863
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:09,680
So you have to have special storage tanks that are double lined.

864
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:14,120
You have to have sensors everywhere to see if you're leaking it.

865
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,200
It's more, it sounds more expensive to do it that way.

866
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:21,760
Initially like to set up the pipes to move it a different shaped pipe or sized pipes

867
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:25,280
to the pipe you would need to move gas.

868
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:27,160
Everything had to be started from scratch.

869
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:30,880
So very few people have the money and the time and the space to do that.

870
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:35,600
And if you go to Italy, the main tile manufacturing region, and you drive down the street, it

871
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:37,360
is tile factory, tile factory.

872
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:39,320
That's all there is next to each other.

873
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:40,920
There's no space to expand.

874
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:45,240
The only way to expand is to buy your neighbour and become a big group.

875
00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:46,680
So that, you know, that does happen.

876
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:52,520
But yes, people are sort of having to move further outtown to get space, start again

877
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:53,920
and build new production plants.

878
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,840
That's a huge process.

879
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,240
How much of the British, how much of the tile industry is doing that?

880
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:01,440
Is what would you say?

881
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:02,440
Fraction, it's tiny.

882
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:03,440
Yeah.

883
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:08,200
I mean, we have the leading manufacturer moving over to green hydrogen.

884
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:11,640
Is that about 7% production now?

885
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:12,640
It's a start.

886
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:13,640
Yeah.

887
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:14,640
It's absolutely better than nothing.

888
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:20,320
And the tiles coming out of that production line much more expensive than...

889
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:21,320
No.

890
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:22,320
Are they not?

891
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:23,320
No.

892
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:24,320
They're not the price of the tiles.

893
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:27,200
I suppose it's the initial set up, isn't it?

894
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,480
It's not the ongoing cost.

895
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:31,000
It's getting the kills.

896
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:36,000
Fendicing the ongoing cost should be less because water is cheaper than gas.

897
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:37,000
Absolutely.

898
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:38,000
Yeah, I don't know.

899
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:39,000
So three.

900
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:40,000
Oh, it's got two, hasn't it?

901
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:41,000
It's got two.

902
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:42,000
Right, down.

903
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:43,000
Fingers crossed.

904
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:44,000
Fingers crossed.

905
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,000
Come on, come on factories.

906
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:46,000
Get hydrogen.

907
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,000
Yeah, the hydrogen is a great step forward.

908
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:49,000
Yeah.

909
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:53,280
I think talking to Hannah Temple the other week, she's a member of the Green Cross.

910
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:56,520
Green Party and she was talking about governments and everything else.

911
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:58,880
They've had a really successful election.

912
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:02,880
I know that they've only had four people as members of parliament, but the actual percentage

913
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:08,520
of people who voted green was a real statement to the government to say, look, you really

914
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:14,560
need to do something about this now because the Green Party might not get into power because

915
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:21,360
they haven't got the seats in each area, but they've upped their percentages so much.

916
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:25,080
Yeah, it's a really important topic for a lot of people.

917
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:29,560
Yeah, if we want to carry on living on this planet as human beings, we've got to do something,

918
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:30,560
haven't we, at some point?

919
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:32,680
So practical tips and advice.

920
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:33,680
Maintenance tips.

921
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:35,920
Have you got any maintenance tips for tiles?

922
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:41,280
Honestly, the nicest thing about tiles is they're really dense, so they're very unlikely

923
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,160
to stay.

924
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:48,160
Because they're fired at such high temperatures, all the raw ingredients that go into them

925
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:49,160
fuse together.

926
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:53,480
They're called vitrification, which is just like glass, basically.

927
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:54,480
It's seamless.

928
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:58,440
All the molecules join together so you can't get anything into a tile.

929
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:02,320
You can't stain a tile, which means they're really easy to look after.

930
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:07,560
So it's just about finding the right way to clean a tile if you've got it stained, but

931
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:13,920
most tiles, you just clean them with something pH neutral like FlashExcel if you're at home,

932
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,400
that kind of thing, or the commercial equivalent.

933
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:22,600
So you can use a lot of different detergents and anti-bat sprays and things.

934
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:23,600
You can't bleach.

935
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:25,640
You can leave bleach on it.

936
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:27,040
You can leave acid on it.

937
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:31,560
I've seen people leave tiles in brick acid to see what will happen to them, and they

938
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:32,560
just don't dissolve.

939
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:33,960
They'll last forever.

940
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:40,200
So basically, your everyday cleaning and maintenance of tiles is just something pH neutral in water,

941
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:45,200
a bit of detergent if you've got dirty tiles, but basically they're really easy to look

942
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:48,720
after if you are struggling to clean tiles.

943
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:54,960
99 times out of 100, it's early on in the build process, and it's because there's grout

944
00:58:54,960 --> 00:59:00,120
and residue from the adhesive left on the surface of the tiles.

945
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:03,120
You can scrub it and it looks like it's gone, but if it's still there, it acts like a key

946
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:04,120
and holds onto dirt.

947
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:05,120
So it makes the floor look dirty.

948
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:09,200
I think that's a key thing to look for as an interior designer, isn't it?

949
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:13,520
Once the tiler has been in to make sure that they've cleaned up the tiles afterwards so

950
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:15,520
you don't have a problem with it further down the line.

951
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:16,520
All the builders clean.

952
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:20,360
You have to make sure your tiler or your builder does a builders clean.

953
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:24,800
With tiles, that means you clean them with an acid watered down acid solution, and the

954
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,840
acid dissolves grout on the surface of the tiles.

955
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:31,080
You can clean the tiles with acid every day and you'd never hurt them, but eventually

956
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:34,960
you'd erode the grout joints, which is why you use something pH neutral.

957
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:36,240
But builders clean definitely.

958
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:37,240
Do that.

959
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:40,520
Get rid of all the grout and builders muck and adhesive that's on the surface of the

960
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:44,280
tiles and go back to a nice clean tile and then after that, daily cleaning or whatever

961
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,400
maintenance, it's just something pH neutral.

962
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:48,600
Broom and heave.

963
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:50,600
We don't like mobs.

964
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:52,120
Mobs move dirty water around.

965
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:53,120
Okay.

966
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:54,760
Waking up the dirt stays behind.

967
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:55,760
Broom and heave.

968
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:56,760
Yeah.

969
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:57,760
What about wet?

970
00:59:57,760 --> 00:59:58,760
Would you not wet?

971
00:59:58,760 --> 00:59:59,760
Use a wet something?

972
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:07,200
If you need to scrub the floors and wash the floors, we recommend the two bucket method.

973
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:13,560
So one bucket of water with your cleaning detergent and a stiff bristled broom and then a bucket

974
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:15,040
of clean water and a mop.

975
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:16,040
So clean it all away.

976
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:17,040
Great.

977
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:18,040
It's the scrubbing.

978
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:19,560
The two bucket method.

979
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:23,320
The scrubbing action of the broom that will activate the cleaning chemicals to lift the

980
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:26,680
dirt off and then clean mop and water to take it away.

981
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:27,680
Love that.

982
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:28,680
I'm such a cleaner.

983
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:29,680
I love that.

984
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:30,680
I'm going to buy another bucket.

985
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:31,680
And a stiff bristle.

986
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:32,680
And a stiff bristle.

987
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:33,680
Uh-oh.

988
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:38,680
She's come out.

989
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:39,680
Sorry.

990
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:40,680
Okay.

991
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:41,680
Right.

992
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:42,680
What was she doing?

993
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:43,680
Help.

994
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:53,440
We need to get to the end now because otherwise we'll just give...

995
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:58,360
So we've talked about types of tiles, ceramic, porcelain, glass, stone and encore stick.

996
01:00:58,360 --> 01:00:59,840
Is that how you say it?

997
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:00,840
I said this before.

998
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:01,840
Encore stick.

999
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:02,840
Encore stick.

1000
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:03,840
And we've talked about to RACSO.

1001
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:04,840
We talked about to RACSO.

1002
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:05,840
Yes, we did.

1003
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:09,800
We talked about the differences between wall tiles, floor tiles and outdoor tiles.

1004
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:13,960
All the slit ratings and how we can specify those and we just need to be very mindful

1005
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:17,720
of making sure we've got the right thing in the right place and not to over specify because

1006
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,880
then it could be a problem for cleaning.

1007
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:23,200
We talked about trends.

1008
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:28,440
We talked about sustainer and eco-friendly tiling options and innovation in tile manufacturing.

1009
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:29,920
We talked about maintenance tips.

1010
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:31,480
I didn't know that acid one.

1011
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:32,480
I think that's brilliant.

1012
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,360
I'll look out for that one for the builders.

1013
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:36,360
The only thing...

1014
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:38,600
I knew what I was going to ask you.

1015
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:39,600
Grout.

1016
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:40,600
Yes.

1017
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:47,480
So I've always found after a few years, white grout doesn't say white.

1018
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:49,600
What's your recommendations around grout?

1019
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:51,960
Honestly, grout will end up grey.

1020
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:52,960
Just use grey grout.

1021
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:55,800
Yeah, you can get white grouts.

1022
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:57,200
You can get colourful grouts.

1023
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:59,600
But grout is a cementitious product.

1024
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:00,800
It's porous, isn't it?

1025
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:01,800
Porous.

1026
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:03,160
Can you seal it?

1027
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:07,640
Grout joints are only two or three millimetres wide generally.

1028
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:09,680
So I have seen a product that you...

1029
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:12,640
Someone's like a pen that you draw a sealant over it.

1030
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,760
But God, that would take days on a project.

1031
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:18,200
So no.

1032
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:21,440
Normal cementitious grout is not as porous as it used to be.

1033
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:24,240
The new stuff, you're looking at about 4% porosity.

1034
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:26,440
When I started, they were 23% porosity.

1035
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:27,440
Right.

1036
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:28,440
So it's got better.

1037
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:29,440
It is a lot better.

1038
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:30,800
You can also get epoxy grouts.

1039
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:35,400
So when I started doing this epoxy grout, it was horrible, smelly, nasty, difficult to

1040
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:36,400
work with.

1041
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,480
You had to wear a hazmat suit and ventilate the area.

1042
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:40,480
Now it's no longer...

1043
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:42,800
I've got a vision of you in a hazmat suit now.

1044
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:44,800
Oh, we're going to time.

1045
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:48,880
I know, but I'd just say it just kept popped into my head.

1046
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,600
So yeah, epoxy grouts are easier to work with, but a lot more expensive.

1047
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:56,400
You don't really want them in swimming pool or in a commercial kitchen.

1048
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,320
Normal cementitious grout, we use everywhere.

1049
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:04,760
It is going to absorb water, so it will change colour.

1050
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:06,800
The only ways around that are to...

1051
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:12,640
I don't know, depends on the project, every three years or 10 years, acid wash the floor.

1052
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:16,200
The whole floor, good clean, like a builder's clean.

1053
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:20,040
And that will take the very top layer of the grout off and give you back the colour.

1054
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:21,040
What about bleaching?

1055
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:22,040
Can you bleach it?

1056
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:23,040
It won't get rid of the dirt.

1057
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:24,040
Really?

1058
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:25,040
No.

1059
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:26,040
If anything, it would die yellow.

1060
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:27,040
Yeah.

1061
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:32,640
I mean, you'd have to leave bleach on it onto a white grout, possibly to dye it.

1062
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:33,640
Yeah.

1063
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:35,840
Okay, good tip.

1064
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:36,840
Thank you.

1065
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:37,840
Yeah.

1066
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:38,840
It's basically just dirt, isn't it?

1067
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:39,840
You can't bleach.

1068
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:40,840
No.

1069
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:41,840
Yeah.

1070
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:42,840
Yeah, absolutely.

1071
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:43,840
That was amazing.

1072
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:45,080
Thank you so much, Jo.

1073
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,280
You are such a mindful of knowledge.

1074
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:48,800
It's so nice to be with you.

1075
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:49,800
Yeah, thank you.

1076
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:50,800
It's amazing.

1077
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:52,600
Thank you so much for educating our listeners.

1078
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:53,600
You're very welcome.

1079
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:56,200
I'm always here if you have questions, if you need anything.

1080
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:57,800
Thank you so much for being here.

1081
01:03:57,800 --> 01:03:59,640
So Harvey's joined us.

1082
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:00,640
Little monkey.

1083
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:03,920
Look, he's got a proper poodle tail now.

1084
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:05,920
Oh, goodness.

1085
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:07,520
Have a look on YouTube if you want to see Harvey.

1086
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:08,520
He's beautiful.

1087
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:09,520
He's just been groomed.

1088
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:11,360
Thanks for joining us on the Interior Design Podcast.

1089
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:15,520
If you like this episode, please like, share and leave us a review.

1090
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:21,360
We're on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram at www.interiordesign.podcast and on LinkedIn

1091
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:23,400
as Interior Design Podcast.

1092
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:24,920
We really value your feedback.

1093
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:28,800
If you have any ideas on any topics you'd like us to cover or people you'd like us to

1094
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,120
interview, please get in touch.

1095
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:35,880
The next few podcasts that we've got planned are Commercial Kitchens, How to Design a Yoga

1096
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:42,920
Studio and how our in talks with Jewlux to do a LRV podcast as well.

1097
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:43,920
So watch this space.

1098
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:47,320
We've got a lot of exciting things coming up and thank you for tuning in.

1099
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:59,400
See you next time.