1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,560
Welcome to the Interior Design Podcast. I'm Hayley Roy, a commercial interior designer

2
00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:19,320
with a passion for creating beautiful functional spaces. Over the years, I've worked on a

3
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,500
variety of projects and have accumulated a wealth of knowledge which I'm excited to

4
00:00:23,500 --> 00:00:28,960
share with you. I started this podcast because I believe in the power of interior design,

5
00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:34,160
so much of what we need to know as designers you won't learn in a classroom. Whether

6
00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:40,300
you're an aspiring designer, tackling your home project or a seasoned pro, this podcast

7
00:00:40,300 --> 00:00:45,240
is for you. Season two is here and I couldn't be more thrilled to kick things off with some

8
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:50,880
fresh energy and exciting changes. This season, I'm joined by not one but two incredible

9
00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:56,780
co-hosts, Hannah Denny and Scarlett Mallett. Together, we're diving deeper into the world

10
00:00:56,780 --> 00:01:02,140
of design to bring you more perspectives, lively debates and all the tips and tricks

11
00:01:02,140 --> 00:01:08,280
you need to thrive. We're here to offer practical advice, discuss the latest trends

12
00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:15,480
and give you unfiltered real-world insights. Expect honest conversations, a bit of humour

13
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:21,240
and maybe even the occasional strong opinion and language. Remember, if it's not fun,

14
00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,720
we're not doing it. And if you're a sound editor looking for a fun collaboration, let

15
00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:30,600
us know. We'd love to have you on board. Thanks for tuning in to season two of the

16
00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:36,600
Interior Design Podcast. Today's guest is Marianne Schillingford. She is the creative

17
00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,600
director of Dulux, which she's just told me is one of the biggest paint companies in

18
00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,600
the world. So I'm very honoured to have her on the podcast.

19
00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,360
That's not at all. I'm thrilled to be here.

20
00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,320
Thank you for coming. Do you want to introduce yourself and the company?

21
00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,880
Sure. What does a creative director of a big paint company do? Well, on a daily basis,

22
00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:03,440
I'll be working with designers, architects, our marketing department, the sales department,

23
00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:09,760
people on the shop floor and scientists. It is an extraordinary job where you get to touch

24
00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:15,720
every point at which colour becomes paint, becomes interior design. And that's the fun

25
00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,280
part of my job. No two days are the same and I think I've probably got the best job in

26
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:20,280
the world.

27
00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:21,280
Oh my God, you have.

28
00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:22,280
I do. I pet you.

29
00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:28,240
So tell us a little bit about Dulux for anyone who doesn't know, because there's some aspiring

30
00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:29,240
designers listening.

31
00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,400
Yeah. Dulux is a global company. It's part of Axo Nobel. It's one of the biggest companies

32
00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:38,040
in the world to create paint. I work in the decorative part of the paint, but Axo Nobel

33
00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:44,520
create paint and surface coatings for everything from oil rigs to aeroplanes to racing cars.

34
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:49,720
Probably the coating of your mobile phone will have an Axo Nobel coating on it. And

35
00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:57,320
I work really in the colour department. We make some incredible products for protecting

36
00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:01,840
the things that we've paid lots of money for. So it's protecting the surfaces of things.

37
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:06,280
My bit is to bring them to life with colour because you can create beautiful products,

38
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,840
but unless you've got them in the right colours, you're not going to sell them and they won't

39
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:16,640
engage. So hugely important is getting the colour right because colour is a language

40
00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:21,720
that we all speak, we all understand, and it's hugely powerful in the success of everything.

41
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,160
Absolutely. Well said.

42
00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:31,440
One of the reasons that I absolutely love Dulux as a brand is that I kind of fell upon

43
00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:37,800
it by accident really because when I first started as an interior designer, I specified

44
00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:42,280
a whole lot of paint for a project and I specified the colour, but I didn't specify the type

45
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:49,080
of paint. And I went into this project and the decorator was trying to cut costs and

46
00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:53,960
didn't use the right kind of paint. And it was a commercial environment and it just didn't

47
00:03:53,960 --> 00:04:00,440
work. And the client came back to me and said, what the hell? This is not working for me.

48
00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:05,880
And I was then on a bit of a mission to try and make sure that I didn't do that again.

49
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,920
And I'd learned from that. So I approached Dulux and the reason I approached Dulux was

50
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:16,320
because I was talking to a decorator and he was recommending Dulux. So I approached Dulux

51
00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:21,240
and said, help, like I need to learn more about paint and I need to learn more about

52
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:28,960
what kind of paints go where, which I did. But what they did was said to me, hey, don't

53
00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,880
worry, just send me your design pack when you've done it and I'll send you a report

54
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:37,440
back that will tell you exactly what paints to use and where, and that will be something

55
00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,120
that you can give to your client as part of your design process. And I was like, that's

56
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:47,960
amazing. So that's where my relationship with Dulux started is that I started doing that.

57
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:54,480
Now every single project that we get, we always specify Dulux wherever we can and we always

58
00:04:54,480 --> 00:05:00,480
speak to Steven who's amazing. And he just literally, sometimes it's like on a Sunday

59
00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:05,160
and I'm like, okay, you know, I'm urgent, urgent, urgent. I've got to get this out tomorrow.

60
00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,480
So yeah, and they send back the report. So if you're a designer out there who is not

61
00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:15,120
doing that, like seriously, that is such a valuable thing that you guys do. I respect

62
00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:16,120
it.

63
00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,680
Music to my ears. I mean, our specification teams are incredible and our color team, our

64
00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:24,040
commercial color team back at Color HQ are amazing as well. And they're here to help

65
00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,680
you. You know, our commercial color teams are here to help you with specification and

66
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:32,240
you know, color is, can be beautiful, but if it, unless it's in the right formulation,

67
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:37,040
unless it stands up to the real life and the hammering you're going to give it in whether

68
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:43,800
it's a bar or a, you know, or a domestic kitchen, it's got to be fit for purpose. So yeah. And

69
00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:50,320
I think a lot of interior designers do not kind of get that. And we can mix up any color.

70
00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:57,120
I mean, just recently, it's only been in the last couple of years that we've, we will mix

71
00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:01,240
up any color. So as all of our competitors used to mix up our colors and we used to be

72
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:07,440
terribly sort of, we never do a thing like that. And actually we do now. So because everybody,

73
00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:12,000
everybody mixes up each other's colors. So we can mix up any color in any formulation.

74
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:16,580
So if you want something like a scuff shield, that is literally, it's the most extraordinary

75
00:06:16,580 --> 00:06:21,440
paint for a high traffic area. We can mix it up in any color, ours and other people's.

76
00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:27,800
Amazing. I loved you Lux. Sorry. Plug. Total plug. I'm thrilled. But like, I'm just, I

77
00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:36,600
just do, I just do. And we went to the Dulux launch of the color of the year a few weeks

78
00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:41,640
ago. And if anyone hasn't seen it, it's on, I put it out on my reels and stuff, but it

79
00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:46,360
was amazing. It was so amazing. Your talk was amazing as well. Just tell us some more

80
00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:51,240
about the color of the year 2025. Color of the year 2025 is a color called true joy.

81
00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,960
Now the process of choosing a color of the year, I know interior designers will, and

82
00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:00,200
absolutely quite rightly will say, don't you dare tell us about trends or color of the

83
00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:05,320
year. It's all just a marketing ploy. And I completely get it because, but what I think

84
00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,600
interior designers, if I just explained to you how we come up with color of the year

85
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:14,200
and what that's all about. So the process of color of the year is part of a thing, a

86
00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:21,080
body of work we work on called color futures. Now this is a global, a global piece of work

87
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,880
where we look at what's happening in the world. That's going to influence the way we're living

88
00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:32,840
in the built environment in the years to come. It starts every year in June. It's all of

89
00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:37,480
the countries that sell Dulux and have a color team will nominate one person from their region

90
00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:43,800
or their country that's doing something extraordinary in the field of architecture or design or technology.

91
00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,560
Could be an amazing influencer. It could be the editor of Elle Decoration in China and

92
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:53,240
India this year. Somebody who's got something to say and has a real lens on the future and

93
00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,200
how we're going to be living in the future. What are the big things that are worrying

94
00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,760
us? What are we spending our money on? Where are we going on holiday? What's influencing

95
00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:06,440
our interiors and built environment? So every year we invite this incredible body of people

96
00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:11,160
to a color futures workshop. And this is a three day workshop, believe it or not. And

97
00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:18,500
we ask them to present what they think is going to be the big thing for the future.

98
00:08:18,500 --> 00:08:25,520
And what we do after this three day workshop is we look at commonalities in the conversation.

99
00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:30,160
So things that are actually sort of affecting the whole world. So there'll be lots of regional

100
00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:35,160
things but there'll be lots of commonalities, lots of common interests, common goals, common

101
00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:41,040
worries. And we take these and we turn them into stories. So rather than trends, I hate

102
00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,360
the word trend. It's a horrible word, but trend is actually a...

103
00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:46,720
Cheryl hates trends as well.

104
00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,840
Yeah, because it's just something that sort of feels like it's imposed upon you. What

105
00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,600
we want to do is we want to create color stories and color palettes that capture something

106
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,440
that's happening in the world, something that we want and something we need and something

107
00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:03,400
that we see. And we give them to you, interior designers and architects, as tools. That's

108
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:08,160
simply our job is to give you colors that will bring you joy and help you to be more

109
00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,600
commercially successful because we've got a lens on the world. We think we know this

110
00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,320
might be a big thing in the future.

111
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:20,000
So Color of the Year came out of this moment that we are in. Isn't the world a horrible

112
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,680
place? I can't listen to the news anymore.

113
00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:24,680
I don't either.

114
00:09:24,680 --> 00:09:28,120
It makes me miserable. I know what's going to happen. And sometimes if I can't sleep

115
00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:32,140
in the middle of the night, I'll turn on the BBC and I'm trying to scroll to find something

116
00:09:32,140 --> 00:09:38,160
that makes me happy. And it's really hard to find something that makes us happy. Well,

117
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:44,400
this year, 2024, we chose colors and color stories that kind of helped people plug back

118
00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:49,520
into the mains, help people feel comfortable, help them sort of find their feet again after

119
00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:55,760
years of turmoil. Moving forward, we kind of realized that the only people that are

120
00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:02,400
going to create change, positive change, are us. And we need to do it. We need to step

121
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,880
out of our comfort zone, take a leap into the unknown and find the good and the joy

122
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:11,960
there. Because actually, if nobody's going to do it, who is going to do it?

123
00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:17,200
So this idea of the sense that this year we had in 2024, the color was sweet embrace and

124
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,560
the moment, the sort of mood of the moment was creating a space of your own, somewhere

125
00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:24,840
you can kind of just relax in and recharge and nurture in space.

126
00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,400
Quite nurturing, isn't it? It's like a beige-y warm...

127
00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:35,600
It's a warm pink color. For 2025, we need to really, we need to kick up the bump.

128
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,320
I've just realized I've got a part of true joy.

129
00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,960
This is the color. So the color is amazing. We need to describe it for our listeners.

130
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:51,440
It is the most glorious, bright, rich, vibrant yellow. It has a slight undertone of, it's

131
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:57,280
a sort of citrine. It's got a little tiny bit of green in it, teeny tiny bit of green.

132
00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,960
So it's not, it's really, really bright, but it's got a certain coolness to it as well.

133
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:06,680
It is amazing for, if you've painted in a bathroom, I mean, there is no way you, there's

134
00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:10,800
no get up and go in that bathroom. Painting it on a bedroom ceiling, if you feel you're

135
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:16,600
not really a morning person, amazing. Just little pops of this color give you a real

136
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:21,160
sense of true joy. You have to be brave. You're just out of your comfort zone because out

137
00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,880
of your comfort zone, that's where the magic happens.

138
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:24,880
Take a leap.

139
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:25,880
Yeah.

140
00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:31,480
Take a leap. When we went to the event, it was like this suspense. It was like, you went

141
00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:35,760
in and we did all like smells and different colors and what they mean to us. And it was

142
00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:43,120
a brilliant event. And then there was like this sort of suspense, it was like this corridor

143
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:47,560
of suspense. And then all of a sudden there was this beautiful yellow and all balloons

144
00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:51,440
and oh, it was just amazing. It's really exciting.

145
00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,240
What we wanted to do in that event was to show people the power of color because you

146
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,360
know, as an interior designer, all the interior designers out there know how powerful color

147
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:06,560
is to make space beautiful initially, but also to create a response. And we respond

148
00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:12,600
to color in the most extraordinary ways. It uplifts us, it calms us, it could make us

149
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:19,720
feel confident, it can make us feel just relaxed. There are all sorts of emotions that we can

150
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:25,440
engender with color. And the journey through the power of color was we wanted to also help

151
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:31,320
explain how color and the senses smell, what smells, what colors do you associate with

152
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:36,400
different smells, how you associate colors with emotions. So in experience of color is

153
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,840
what we wanted you to have and then to experience what true joy really looked like.

154
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:45,320
Oh my goodness, they had space hoppers. They had space hoppers. And like what were the

155
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,320
little things that you put around your waist? Who loops? Who loops?

156
00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:48,320
I could never do that.

157
00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:53,800
That was amazing. But yeah, no, it was really good. And yeah, I felt very honored to be

158
00:12:53,800 --> 00:13:03,640
invited to them. So thank you very much for that. So in terms of color theory and trends

159
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:08,880
and sort of the psychology of color, what's your opinion on all of that?

160
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,880
The color theory, we're always looking at color theory because how color relates to

161
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:18,280
each other, how it's made. And we have, I mean, in our basic stable palette, we have

162
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:23,320
33,000 colors. I think if you've got one of these big Dulux fan book, Fandex, it's about

163
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:28,520
2,400 colors in there. That's our sort of core range. And that you're constantly adding

164
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:33,440
to color. I mean, the human eye can see up to 10 million colors. We can differentiate

165
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,320
and we haven't named them all yet. So I'm still, you know, this is why I'm still here.

166
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,480
So color is an extraordinary thing. And we're constantly looking at the science of color

167
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:47,000
and how we make it, how we respond to it. And then when it sort of intersects with trends,

168
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:57,600
is this, we start to see a real relationship between feelings and colors. So let me start

169
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:02,560
with a bit of science. Okay. And then I'll explain the feelings. So each color through

170
00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:09,400
the spectrum has a wavelength. So each color has a wavelength. You imagine a sound wave.

171
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:15,160
The longest wavelength color is red. Now, this red is the most impactful color. It's

172
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:21,000
like if you dropped a plate, a load of plates in a restaurant, they smashed onto the floor.

173
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,920
That's the kind of impact that red has visually on us. You cannot ignore red. And this long

174
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:31,640
wavelength color is right in our face. When you decorate a room in red, you immediately

175
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:36,640
draw the walls in towards you. You cannot ignore it. It's powerful and it engenders

176
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:44,200
certain feelings. In the West, it can be power. It can be being sexy, passionate. It can,

177
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:49,880
it really gets the heart racing. In the East, just generally, it can be, it's immensely

178
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:56,280
powerful but for hugely positive reasons, for joy, for purity, for luck.

179
00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,520
Yeah, in China, red is a big color, isn't it?

180
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,880
So you look at the science, the science tells you it's a long wavelength color. The cultural

181
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,160
response to it, or so a physical response to it is, wow, it gets heart racing. And then

182
00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:14,020
culturally you have this layer of culture over the top that, you know, in generally

183
00:15:14,020 --> 00:15:20,320
in the West, we see red as, you know, racing cars, red dress, hot lips, sexy, you know,

184
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:25,080
powerful stop. And in the East, it can be something different. It can be weddings. It

185
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,080
can be joy and prosperity.

186
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:28,880
It's like prosperity, isn't it?

187
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,160
And prosperity. But it's still powerful. So you have this wonderful thing where you've

188
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,200
got the science, you've got the way we see it and respond to it culturally, and then

189
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:40,920
there's kind of emotional response to it. So each of the colors, and do you know if

190
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,880
we just talk, we could talk color wavelengths all day long. But then you add this, and this

191
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,520
is a big thing at the moment, lots of people talking about color psychology, and there

192
00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:55,160
is, you know, a certain amount of psychology. Our experience, or when we look at color psychology,

193
00:15:55,160 --> 00:16:02,300
or our response to it is experiential. We have been putting color palettes together

194
00:16:02,300 --> 00:16:08,120
and decorating people's homes for nearly a hundred years. And so you can see a correlation

195
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,200
between everything from what's happening in the world, what people are watching on television,

196
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:17,040
for example. In the 80s, we were watching Dallas and Dynasty, and suddenly we got this

197
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:22,440
idea that homes should be cream and brown, like the American beautiful sense of this

198
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:27,320
gorgeous sort of natural oatmeal, natural colors, because we were watching Dallas and

199
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:32,800
Dynasty. I mean, that was what the UK homes looked like because we were watching Dallas

200
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:39,280
and Dynasty. So television and films will have a great influence on the way that we

201
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:45,160
decorate our homes. But then laterally, in the last few years, it's been a lot about

202
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:52,760
the environment and a lot about being on 24-7. Our responses to what's happening that we

203
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:58,040
can't control in the world are driving us back towards the familiar colors of nature,

204
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,760
the colors that make us happy, the colors that we surround ourselves with, the more

205
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,480
natural greens and blues. We used to sell a lot.

206
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,960
I was convinced that the color of the year was going to be green.

207
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:11,520
Well, it very nearly could be, and it may well be next year. But this return to greens

208
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:16,200
and blues, these colors that reconnect us with the sky and the landscape, they're huge.

209
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,760
I mean, one of our best selling colors at the moment is a color called Sapphire Salute.

210
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,480
It is the most glorious blue.

211
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,880
I feel like I need to like take lots of notes, but I'm recording it. So it's like, well,

212
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,840
I'm going to do it anyway. But Sapphire Salute, and then there's another one, Everglade Forest

213
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:38,520
and Emerald Glade. These colors are amazing. They're rich, deep blues and greens, and they're

214
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:42,920
the colors that are easy to look at. They've got shorter wavelength colors. They recede,

215
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:47,720
so you put them on the walls, so they make the walls and the space seem bigger, reconnect

216
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:53,320
us with nature on a visual level as well as a sort of a psychological level. And so we

217
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:59,720
start to see this. So when I hear color psychology, I think color psychology is more about color

218
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:07,120
experience, our experience of the world and our response to it around us, over layered

219
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:11,600
with science and the way that we see color. I think that's the more powerful indicator.

220
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:18,080
It is a layer, isn't it? There are different ways of looking at color psychology, aren't

221
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,800
there? There's like, like you say, culture, science.

222
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:25,640
Yeah, yeah. And people, and I know, I mean, Karen Harla, super French, the most amazing

223
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,880
girl, absolutely wonderful. She's a color psychologist. She's grinding her teeth in

224
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,240
the background. She's like, it's color psychology. She is the thing. And it is, and she is a

225
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:37,680
color psychologist. But from my point of view and from our point of view, we have an experiential

226
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:44,480
response. I think as human beings, our creatures have experience, and we adapt and flex, and

227
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,880
we seek what we need and what we want from our environment, don't we? And you as an interior

228
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:54,680
designer will see wonderful flexes and changes in what people are finding stylish and comfortable,

229
00:18:54,680 --> 00:19:00,080
maybe moving towards a more comfortable environment, places where you can retract to more about

230
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:04,360
me rather than what's going to please the neighbor or my friends. You know, so you can

231
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:09,960
see things changing in your world and we see exactly the same things. And what we're looking

232
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:16,160
for is global trends. So we're looking for something that's kind of affecting us as humanity.

233
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:20,660
And this return to nature is huge and it's becoming more huge. And these little pops

234
00:19:20,660 --> 00:19:24,640
of joy, sorry, I'm going to have to say, but within that lovely calm return to nature.

235
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:29,680
I'm so chuffed that we're all like, you're bang on trend with this. This was before I

236
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:36,360
knew about the psychology of color. This was before I knew about true joy. Yeah, or how

237
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:42,520
it might make you feel. But yeah, these joy is really important. We need to inject joy

238
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:48,040
and we need to seek it out actively in our lives. And color can give us pops of joy that

239
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,800
don't cost us any money. And every day you'll see this beautiful golden cushion, you'll

240
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,060
go and it puts a smile on your face. Why? We don't know, but it just does because it

241
00:19:56,060 --> 00:20:03,120
just reminds us of sunshine, baby chicks, the flowers of spring reminds us that the

242
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:08,360
winter is over. Butter cups, biscuits looks in this one is absolutely gorgeous. Butter.

243
00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:15,000
I mean, I'm thrilled already. Ginger snaps, although nice bits of custard. Oh yeah, custard.

244
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:22,240
Wonderful. So we use color to give us what we want and what we need and joy. We need

245
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:28,000
joy right now. And so bright colors, dopamine colors, these lovely bright colors that we

246
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:33,120
see in almost like sweeties, fizzy sweeties, little pops of those into an interior. Just

247
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:37,360
give us, you know, just that smile, that little cheeky smile in a room.

248
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:41,960
It was amazing. And you don't, I think if you did do yellow in a whole room, a little

249
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,560
bit like our toilets here, where you do pink in a whole room and you go in and you go,

250
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,320
whoa. But if you sat in that room with just yellow everywhere, it wouldn't work, would

251
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,800
it? It's all about the pops, isn't it?

252
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,200
Yeah, I've seen it. I stayed in an Airbnb the other day and it was the whole thing was,

253
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:03,320
it was just the shower room and toilet with yellow and the tiles, the toilet seat, the

254
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,280
toilet paper even was yellow. It was amazing. And I went in and I was like, where was this?

255
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,520
It was just, it was in Margate. It was crazy.

256
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:15,960
And that was, it was, it put a smile on my face all day, but because you just visited

257
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:20,760
that space, had an intense experience and then left, that was fine. However, and I think

258
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:25,480
in a restaurant or a commercial space where you're making a big impact, yes, but then

259
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,440
you're not living with it all the time. I think you just, you just, there's just, it's

260
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:34,720
like sweeties, isn't it? Or really intense spice in food. You just need enough, too much

261
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:40,680
and it overwhelms. So yeah, you've got to be clever with an intense yellow.

262
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:46,640
And this is the story of true joy or the story of yellow. That's only one yellow. I think

263
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:52,160
next year, 2025 is going to be all yellows, whether it's a buttery cream through to, all

264
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,200
the way through to true joy. You know, all yellows are going to have their day because

265
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,640
we need more joy than ever before.

266
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:04,480
Absolutely. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And when we did the event, there's a colour palette,

267
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:09,160
isn't there, around true joy, which there's three different palettes. Yes. Yeah. Do you

268
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,360
want me to tell you about that?

269
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:11,360
Yeah, I'd love to.

270
00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:17,040
So true joy is the kind of colour, and this is where, this is where people's go, no, there's

271
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:22,040
no one colour of the year. It's a story. So true joy captures that mood of the moment.

272
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:27,560
But there were three really clear stories coming out in colour and kind of different

273
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:33,320
vibes that were coming through in design. And the first one was about being human. You

274
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,640
know, in the world of AI, where we have, you know, lots of problems can be solved for us

275
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,760
with AI, but lots more problems are created for us with AI. And there was a wonderful

276
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:47,080
advert where somebody had said, you know, I don't want AI to do my art or my poetry.

277
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,320
I want AI to do the dishes and the washing up and the hoovering. You know, I feel exactly

278
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:52,320
the same way.

279
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:53,320
All the admin, please.

280
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,680
I want to do the admin, yeah, which is a certain amount. But I don't want AI to do my art and

281
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,120
creativity. I want AI to do the boring bits that I don't want to do. I want to solve problems

282
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:09,120
for me. And so this sense of being human, of celebrating all the messy, mucky, dirty,

283
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:15,600
raggedy edges, bits of humanity and all the genius that is humanity. You know, a child

284
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,320
brings a pot or you go to a pottery class and you make your first pot. It's not perfect,

285
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:24,680
but oh my God, that's the most precious thing you'll ever have because you made it. So celebrating

286
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:30,760
humanity, how people make things. We're seeing this huge return to craft. I mean, Etsy, you

287
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:36,320
know, what do we do? We look on Etsy and there's everybody as a maker. Everybody because I'm

288
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,040
looking the joy of making for everybody, whether it's knitting a pair of socks.

289
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,080
And personalisation as well, isn't it? It's really, that personalisation is something

290
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:50,400
that we've talked about in our Trends podcast from the HRC when we did it on stage. And

291
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:55,760
that personal, like you said, that personalisation and it's all about you. It's all about how

292
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,880
do you feel in that space and what do you need? You know, not what's, you know, keeping

293
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:04,400
up with the Joneses is that's a bit last year, isn't it? Well, 10 years ago, maybe.

294
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,400
Yeah. And we're moving towards more and more of that. So that human touch, who are you?

295
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:13,800
Who am I? We're different, we're the same. And so this palette has true joy in it because

296
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,840
true joy is a palette of 10 colours. True joy is always one of them. But the rest of

297
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:23,640
the palette is a palette of the most beautiful, warm, neutrals, familiar oatmeal colours and

298
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:30,440
skin tones as beautiful, soft, beiges, texture to really rich, deep chocolate browns. So

299
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,840
a gorgeous palette of human colours, where true joy is that one colour that just gives

300
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:40,400
you that walk, pop, but it's telling a human story of what it is to be human. And then

301
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,340
there's another palette or the second palette is about being proud. So all around the world,

302
00:24:44,340 --> 00:24:51,800
we are experiencing de-globalisation. So up until a few years ago, our sense of, I'll

303
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:56,880
just take interior design. So our sense of style was mid-century modern, a bit of Scandi,

304
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,840
maybe Japandi, maybe a kind of, we were homogenising design and all the way around the world, we

305
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,840
were seeing the same designs turning up in Design Week, in Milan Design Week. But recently

306
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:13,320
we've started to see more ethnic designs, more ethnic prints, more, so less design that's

307
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:20,280
focused on the Nordics and more design that's focused on regional areas. So beautiful wickerware

308
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:26,560
from China, the most amazing Japanese lacquerware. So things that are more, and we celebrate

309
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:31,720
them because they're different, they add a richness to design that we've not seen before.

310
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,880
We really have moved towards this kind of mid-century modern Scandi style of that's

311
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:41,800
what style is. And actually the world has got more to offer. So this palette is, we

312
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,640
call it the proud palette, it's being proud of where we've come from, whether you come

313
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:50,360
from North Wales or whether you come from Africa. It's where you've come from, your

314
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:58,600
roots, your heritage. And these colours are mainly, they're inspired by natural pigments.

315
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:04,160
So they're rich, they're raw, they're smoky. This palette's in two halves, it's got half

316
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:10,180
cool and half warm, but deep and rich and really moody. And then Truejoy is like an

317
00:26:10,180 --> 00:26:15,100
equal player here, so you can pop Truejoy in anywhere. And we're starting to see amazing

318
00:26:15,100 --> 00:26:24,040
ethnic prints, designs, hand painting, celebrating the handmade in big shapes and simple floral

319
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:29,240
designs or leaf patterns and that kind of thing. And this palette is perfectly designed

320
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:35,000
for that. And then the third one is called the bold colour palette. And this is the one

321
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:42,120
that captures this idea that we need to take a leap. So be bold. I love it, it's such a

322
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:48,520
dopamine hit. I love it. You see, you're hardwired to be bold on behalf of your clients. And

323
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,800
I think that this is a sort of, and people are starting to come around to this, yeah,

324
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,520
these dopamine colours, these colours that give us a bit of something that we need. And

325
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,840
people are being braver with colour blocks, with sort of calling out maybe a chair or

326
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:05,160
two in a bright colour or the inside of a cupboard or painting shelves or a block or

327
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,920
even taking colour up onto the roof. So we're starting to see that more and more and more.

328
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,360
And this palette is designed for that. It's called the bold colour palette and it gives

329
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:18,240
you the opportunity to leap out of your comfort zone and find where the magic is.

330
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:23,400
I feel like I've got, I keep thinking I'm going to reach for this in the middle of what

331
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:32,320
you're talking about. If anyone's listening, I apologise. But you need to go onto YouTube

332
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,640
and check this out. But this is the story, isn't it?

333
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,200
Yeah, these are the colour stories. Now what I can give you is I'll give you a link to

334
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,600
the PDF of the whole book, not this one, but the whole book.

335
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:43,600
Oh, the big one, yeah.

336
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,520
So you can share it with your listeners. And it is amazing. So that will give you all of

337
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:54,040
the trends. And I know we hate the word trends, all of the colour stories, all of the insights

338
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:59,480
behind them, why we think they're important. And a reminder from me that these are just

339
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:05,280
tools for creative people like you. This is me or our company giving you hopefully colours

340
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:10,720
that bring you joy forever or for your customers.

341
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:17,200
You touched on warm and cold just then. I've got my own theory on warm and cold in each

342
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:22,560
particular interior that I go to. And I always feel like you need to have a balance of warm

343
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:28,360
and cold. You can never sort of tip it too far the wrong way. What's your thoughts on

344
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:29,360
warm and cold colours?

345
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:33,240
Two thoughts on warm and cold colours. So if we look at how we describe warm and cold

346
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,040
colours, so when we talk about warm colours, we tend to talk about yellows, oranges and

347
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,800
reds. When we talk about cool colours, we talk about greens, blues and violets. And

348
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:46,920
that would be a sort of conversation. You would understand that. However, there is a

349
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:53,480
wonderful thing in art that says colour takes the credit, but tone does all the work. So

350
00:28:53,480 --> 00:29:00,880
the darker the colour is, the closer it feels to you. So any dark colours advance. So whatever

351
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,400
colour you're using, whether it's a blue or a green or a red or an orange, if it's

352
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,320
a deep shade of that, you create this warm environment because the walls look closer

353
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,040
to you. So you can...

354
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,840
Oh, hello Harvey. Hang on. Let me just go and shut the door.

355
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,200
This is the interior design master himself.

356
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:25,760
Where are we? We were talking about colour.

357
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:31,520
We were talking about warm and cool.

358
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,800
We totally deserved the middle of that. That's annoying.

359
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,280
What's this? Where did we get to?

360
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:47,720
There is this famous phrase in that colour takes the credit. So colour takes the centre

361
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:53,840
stage, but it's tone that does all of the work. And if you have a dark tone of any colour,

362
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,480
whether it's warm or cool, so whether it's a red or a yellow or a pink, if it's dark,

363
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,240
it will advance. So it looks closer to you. So it creates a cosy environment. So you

364
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:07,800
can have a warm room in a deep blue. It could be described as warm and cosy in a deep green.

365
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,200
And these are cool colours. We would normally call these colours cool colours, but the darker

366
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:16,200
the colour is, the closer it appears to you, closer the walls appear to you and the cosier

367
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:21,800
the environment that it creates. So that's the kind of like, that's how I imagine, you

368
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:27,520
know, or that's how I think darker spaces create cosier, warmer spaces.

369
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,560
I think if I was to do like a dark blue room, for example, I would put something like a

370
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:36,600
pop of yellow in it or gold. So it balances it. So you've got that balance of...

371
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:41,480
Absolutely. Or lovely warm lighting. So you can balance the cool, but the dark is the

372
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,240
thing that creates the arm around you, the visual arm around you. The dark is the thing

373
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:50,120
that hugs you. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

374
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:57,600
So how colour define and transform spaces? Would you like to talk about that?

375
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,840
Colour is one of the least expensive elements of interior design, isn't it? I mean, you

376
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,840
can paint a room for less than it costs for a couple of designer cushions and yet that's

377
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:13,400
the impact. So colour is everything and it is a tool for interior design, is a creative

378
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:14,400
tool.

379
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:19,960
Harvey's having a good old scratch over there. This is great. Colour is the cheapest ingredient

380
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,760
in interior design. I know people moan about the expense of paint, but if you think a couple

381
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:29,400
of designer cushions and you could decorate a room, it's the same amount in paint. So

382
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:35,240
colour is the biggest transformer of a space. And that's whether you're using a subtle white

383
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:40,680
or a bold colour like Truejoy. And you can use it cleverly and in pops. So when we talk

384
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,120
about colours, colour doesn't necessarily have to be wraparound, though that is one

385
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:48,900
thing of, you know, fully drenching a room is one beautiful way of making a statement

386
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:52,960
with colour, but also just painting the edge of a door. So you see the door that's open

387
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:58,200
behind us. If you just painted the edge of that door in a bright yellow or a pink, that

388
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,720
could be enough for some people to make a real statement, to give them a little smile

389
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:07,200
when they look at the edge of that door. So colour is everything. You know this because

390
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,880
I've been upstairs into your studio and you've got all of these wonderful books that you're

391
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:17,160
putting together and you're creating a conversation with a space using colour as one of your ingredients

392
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,920
and it makes all the difference. And some people can take strong colour and some people

393
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:27,160
can't. I think most people can, they just don't know it. So it is the tool that unlocks

394
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,000
the personality of a space more than anything else.

395
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,160
I think one of the things when I've got a tight budget on a project, I always get really

396
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:40,320
creative with paint. Yeah. Yeah. I always use paint a lot and in a creative way. And

397
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:47,120
I think that's the true value of being an interior designer is that you can make a statement

398
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:53,000
make something look amazing without spending stupid money. And paint is the one way. And

399
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,840
you can do all sorts of things. You can get some tape and make a pattern. Yeah. And painting

400
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:02,920
up onto the ceiling. A big circle on the ceiling can be the thing that stops everybody in their

401
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,160
tracks. You could have spent a fortune on the rug, but the circle of colour on the ceiling,

402
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,920
or the balls of colour on the ceiling is the thing that everybody talks about. Absolutely.

403
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,640
And you guys did it in your, and if anyone wants to see this, have a look at it on my

404
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:25,400
socials because there's a little, as we went into the true joy unveiling, if you like,

405
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:31,440
there was this arch of true joy and it was beautiful. And it was just paint. Like it's

406
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:36,360
just paint. You just have to just get creative. It is all about being, you know, making your

407
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,880
money go further. I mean, there is nothing more expensive than a new kitchen, but if

408
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,960
you've got a kitchen, you can paint. I mean, there's a whole other ball game going out

409
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:49,640
there. And if you're clever and you've got a good decorator, you can transform a kitchen

410
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,960
in less than a week. And think of the thousands and thousands of pounds that you're saving.

411
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,200
I think also as well, I mean, in the UK, we're having a bit of a cost of living crisis, probably

412
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,600
all over the world. We want to make our money work harder. If you get really good quality

413
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:07,520
paint, you can transform anything. And yeah, it doesn't have to cost you a fortune. And

414
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,320
again, as an interior designer, you know this, when the budget's tight, you get the paint

415
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:16,040
rush out. Absolutely. And do you know what? It's more sustainable as well. So if you can,

416
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,160
like if you bought a kitchen that you can paint, or if you use paint, you could, I mean,

417
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:25,000
I get really bored. Like because of what I do for a living, I want to change the walls

418
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:30,440
in my house all the time. Ditto. So yeah, painting is one of them. And actually I'm

419
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,920
kind of sitting here thinking, I should have bought a kitchen I could paint. Because now

420
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:39,480
I've got like a heavy gloss sort of finish and I'm going, I'm a bit bored of that now.

421
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,440
And I've had it for five years and I'm going, shall I get some new doors? But actually if

422
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,960
I'd have got painted, if I'd have got, so to get sustainable. Yeah. That's what that

423
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,160
was a consideration when I bought my kitchen. Can I paint it? Because I know that in a few

424
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:54,600
years time I'm going to get bored. And if I can paint it and change the color and immediately

425
00:34:54,600 --> 00:35:00,440
change the whole vibe of the place, then yeah, that's a tick for me. Absolutely. Yeah. And

426
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,960
I love the sustainability edge as well, because we're all trying to be more regenerative,

427
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:09,160
aren't we? Yeah. I mean, on the sustainability front, you know, we talked about paint right

428
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:14,560
at the beginning of this, you know, your first experience of painting was color. It's more

429
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,880
than just color. You know, the actual formulation, the right formulation for the right space

430
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:24,280
will give you longevity. It will last. The customer will be happy. And if you think about

431
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,120
the sustainability in terms of the quality of the paint. So if you have a paint that

432
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:33,200
you can wipe, you can rub, something that's incredibly hard wearing like the diamond with

433
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:39,120
a diamond finish and it can be in a super matte, you could have a flat finish in a diamond

434
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:45,120
formulation and that lasts for years and years and years. And that's sustainability because

435
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:51,440
it means using less paint, less time. So you are extending the decorating period of time.

436
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,640
If you get the colors right, people will be living with it for longer. So that's that's

437
00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:01,520
an element of sustainability that people don't often consider. So if you buy nice paint,

438
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,280
chalk paint, that's not going to last very long, you're going to be painting again and

439
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,280
again and again and again. If you buy, if you get the colors right and you go buy really

440
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,720
good paint, you're not going to be painting again and again. You save on the decorator's

441
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:17,320
fees, you save on, you save the environment, you save on time, you save money. Yeah, it

442
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:18,320
just makes sense.

443
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:23,640
I had a client recently, you're just making me think about where I'd specify Dulux paint

444
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,600
and I've got a funny feeling that they didn't follow the specification because it's one

445
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,840
of my favorite restaurants and it's the noodle bar in Colchester. And I've been in there quite

446
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:37,240
a few times and they're going, oh, we're going to wallpaper everywhere because you know,

447
00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:41,400
the paint is getting really marked. And I'm like, I don't think the decorators use the

448
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,480
right paint. And I asked him if we could get it tested because we're going to do that.

449
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,800
And he's like, no, no, no, it's fine. We're just going to buy a roll of wallpaper a month

450
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,480
and do it themselves.

451
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,040
But if you get the wrong formulation, you're absolutely right. It doesn't stand up to the

452
00:36:55,040 --> 00:37:01,200
job. So in a restaurant, you want a diamond finish. You want all you want in a hotel or

453
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,720
a really, really busy lobby. You want scuff shields. You want something that's going to

454
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:07,680
put up, you know, stand to a lot of hammer.

455
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,240
Yeah, definitely. And that is the crux of it is you need to just make sure you've got

456
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:15,400
the right product in the right place. Otherwise it's just, yeah.

457
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,680
You wouldn't use a domestic fabric, would you? On a commercial sofa. And it's the same

458
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,360
with paint. You wouldn't use a domestic paint in a commercial environment.

459
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,800
But then saying that is because I've worked in commercial first and went into residential

460
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:34,920
afterwards. I have a real thing about like the fire retardancy is higher on a commercial

461
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,920
fabric. Actually the durability is higher. Why wouldn't you put that in someone's house?

462
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:45,720
If you've got like, I've got a son with ADHD. He like, he trashes the sofa every time he

463
00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:51,360
sits on it, as most parents will understand and relate to that. So like, why am I putting

464
00:37:51,360 --> 00:38:00,240
a domestic fabric on a sofa when my child is such a Tasmanian devil, you know? So actually

465
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:06,000
when you've got dogs and children and everything, you know, I went in the doctor's surgery,

466
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,720
I went in the vets the other day to take Harvey to the vet because he had 27 teeth out if

467
00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:20,560
I haven't. And they had a seat in the vets, which was dog proof. You could see that this

468
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:26,640
seat was really, really hard wearing. And I'm like, people should do this more at home.

469
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:32,280
And so yeah, so I kind of really bring that when I do a domestic house, I always bring

470
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:38,080
that and I always try and make it fire retardant. Because why would you not have a fire retardant

471
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:43,640
fabric when you could have got a choice to do that? Like in your home, you're not supposed

472
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,880
to have it fire retardant at home. So we're not as safe at home. Like, oh, is that okay?

473
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:57,480
No, I don't think that's okay. That's not okay with me. So yeah, sorry. So yeah, so

474
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:02,800
we've spoken about how Dulux predict future color trends. We've spoken about what the

475
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:10,280
top colors are for this year, next year even. How does social and environmental factors

476
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:11,280
shape color trends?

477
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:16,760
I think it's everything. If you're experiencing, so for example, we talked about a cost of

478
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:25,200
living crisis here in the UK. So that will, so it will drive people to decorate less often,

479
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,320
but they'll be upcycling more. So they might be decorating their homes less often, but

480
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:35,040
they'll be upcycling furniture more. So that means you're, that's a response to what's

481
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:40,480
happening to us in the world. If you think about as well, the environment, so we are

482
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,440
really heavily focused on nature and working in harmony with nature. So you're going to

483
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,080
be looking for paints that are more sustainable, VOC free. You're going to be looking for paints

484
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,120
where you can take the bit of leftover paint to your recycling center and somebody else

485
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:57,880
can use it. You're thinking about how you use color in the garden to attract pollinators.

486
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,960
So more pollinators in the garden so that they get, they meet each other, they breed

487
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,200
and they reproduce. So you can do that with color in the garden. We're using color more

488
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:13,080
mindfully in a situation where we find there's less that we can control in the wider world,

489
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,600
but more that we can control in our homes. And we're using color and paint to make ourselves

490
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,400
happier and to make the environment happier.

491
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:25,160
Love it. And it affects our moods and our emotions as well, doesn't it?

492
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,040
Absolutely. A hundred percent it does. Yeah. I mean, that's a, that's, it's, it's one of

493
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:32,560
the, it's something that I am, I'm working on the idea of a book at the moment about

494
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:38,960
the power of color to, to transform everything, but not just from a, not just from an experiential

495
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,440
point of view, but there was with the science as well. Why do we do things? Why do we respond

496
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,880
in this way? So how the science crosses over to culture, how it crosses over into emotion,

497
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,160
and then you put that layer on of what's happening in the world and why are we doing this kind

498
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,600
of thing. So it's one of the drivers of why do we use color? Why do, you know, why do

499
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,960
we seek color as a solution to the way that we feel often? I mean, if we're going out

500
00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:03,920
to a party, we tend to either wear, well, I might, as I'm older, wear something that

501
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:09,600
makes me look slimmer. So it would generally be black, but I will wear a gorgeous pair

502
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,160
of earrings, some amazing shoes, some really bright tights. Oh, I'll use color. Oh, have

503
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:19,200
you seen Marianne's tights? Is it in the shot? Oh my God, they're so good. They're so treacherous.

504
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,840
But so I'll use color to give myself a little bit of confidence. If I'm going out with my

505
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,000
sister, for example, I don't care anymore. So I'm going to wear the brightest colors

506
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:31,640
that I, I, you know, the brightest colors that I can. So I use color to give myself

507
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:36,920
a little bit of something when I go out in my wardrobe. And that translates to the food

508
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:41,680
on my plate. If you've got a plate of beige food, yes, it might be comfort food, but actually

509
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,680
what really turns us on is a plate of really colorful food, lots of reds and oranges, and

510
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:51,040
they make your mouth water. You know, when you see, so everywhere we as human beings

511
00:41:51,040 --> 00:42:05,160
touch color in our lives, it gives us something that we need. Love that. How to use color

512
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:11,000
to promote calm, focus or energy in various spaces? We have, I mean, there's an interesting

513
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:17,400
one because different people will need different things from color. So for example, in a school,

514
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,720
you'll have a load of children who are all very different with very different needs.

515
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:24,280
Sometimes they need to focus and sometimes they're anxious and stressed and they just

516
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:29,240
need to calm down. So you need to create spaces within that environment that gives them both

517
00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:33,680
things. And there might be spaces of energy where you have to, you know, you'll get ready

518
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,980
for sports or the sports hall, you know, where you will use brighter, more intense colors,

519
00:42:37,980 --> 00:42:41,680
or you might have a classroom where you want children to focus on the teacher or focus

520
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:49,520
on a space. So you would use it quite a bright color to draw attention. So color can be used

521
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:56,640
to engender different responses and that all promotes wellbeing. So this is the wonderful

522
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:03,380
thing about being an interior designer. One solution doesn't fit all. You have to respond

523
00:43:03,380 --> 00:43:08,560
to your client, what your client needs. And often in a big commercial space, it's more

524
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:13,920
than one person. So there are much more now in an environment, you'll have multiple spaces,

525
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,800
a little quiet reading space, a little sort of space where you're relaxing and a little

526
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,280
space where you want to be energized or a space where you want to draw people together

527
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:28,720
to be entertained. So it's, yeah, it's a language you have to learn a little bit, but not in

528
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:32,600
one, one size does not fit all when it comes to color and creating.

529
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,520
My biggest mantra in interior design is that you have to listen. And you really have to,

530
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:43,960
and for me, this is my favorite part of being a designer is that you have to really give

531
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,440
that person what they don't know they want, you know, and really kind of listen to what

532
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:55,120
they're saying and translate that into how am I going to make that person feel really

533
00:43:55,120 --> 00:44:01,000
good in their space because I'm going to solve that problem or this is why they've come to

534
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,080
me. They've got this, you know, generally people come because they're like, they haven't

535
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:10,400
got time or they, you know, they want to feel a certain way in their space and they want

536
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:15,320
to feel special and how that person feels special is going to be different for every

537
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,600
single client. So you can't just go like that color makes people feel special. You know,

538
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:25,720
you can't do that. You have to be really intuitive and read between the lines and kind of really

539
00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:30,960
try and figure out what makes that person tick and what makes them happy. I mean, if

540
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:38,480
someone really likes being on a beach, for example, those beach colors might be a good

541
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,120
palette to start with on, you know. So if you've got, if you're asking your client

542
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:46,520
lots of questions, you need to get to know them, you know, and the people I've got to

543
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:51,240
know or who've allowed me to get to know them the most I've done the best job for because

544
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:56,960
I just know what makes them tick and I know what makes them feel good and things like

545
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:01,880
that. And that's the key to getting it really right as an interior designer. And then on

546
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:08,240
the flip side, that's sort of at home on the flip side of that is commercial spaces. And

547
00:45:08,240 --> 00:45:13,160
like you said, you've got to make, if you've got kids who need to calm down or kids who

548
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:21,200
need to focus in a school, for example, absolutely. And you've got that in an environment in a

549
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:27,160
commercial space as well. So if you're, for example, doing it at a hotel, people are living

550
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,520
in your space. So you need to be able to do this exactly the same. You need to have somewhere

551
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:36,420
where people can work, somewhere where people can focus, somewhere where people can chill

552
00:45:36,420 --> 00:45:40,600
out and calm down. And you've got to have all of those different things. And that's

553
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:45,480
becoming, especially in the hotel environment, much, much more prominent and much more asked

554
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:51,680
for from my perspective, from my clients is that they're wanting to give not just one

555
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:56,440
thing, they wanting to give different people. And also the whole thing with neurodiversity

556
00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:04,680
as well and people being more aware of neurodiversity. I think that that is going to be huge in our

557
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:10,440
society in terms of being on the spectrum. So everyone is on the spectrum somewhere,

558
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:15,600
aren't they? And some people are much more introvert than others, you know, and that's

559
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:22,640
just character, I was going to say flaws, but character traits, you know? And there's

560
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:29,480
this thing with neurodiversity that people want to have certain things to, they need

561
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:36,640
certain environments to create something for them, to help them. And actually, when you

562
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:41,200
think about it, everybody needs that. Everybody needs that. Everyone needs that. And when

563
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:45,760
you make something, when you make a space really, really healthy for a neurodiverse

564
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:50,480
environment, it actually makes the space really, really healthy for everyone. Because it gives

565
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:55,600
you lots of different areas and different feelings and touch points and things like

566
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:56,600
that.

567
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,920
And I think that's going to be one of the biggest areas of development in design, interior

568
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:04,000
design is designing for neurodiversity. Because I mean, we design at the moment when all of

569
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:11,080
the legislation is designed towards people who are in wheelchairs or can't physically

570
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:16,800
or there may be some physical inability to do something physically, but actually it's

571
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:22,560
probably more what's going on in our noggins that is the biggest thing that we should address

572
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,640
as human beings, especially designing for spaces to make people happy and to function

573
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:35,520
better for everyone. So I think that's, I mean, it's such a fantastic area of research

574
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:41,280
and focus in Dulux. So we're constantly designing to help people. So for example, help people

575
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:45,560
with dementia to live in their homes safer for longer. We've just created a couple of

576
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:51,000
years ago, we created a dementia, not dementia, we do dementia friendly pallets, of course,

577
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,160
but also for people who suffer from migraine. So we worked with the National Migraine Centre

578
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,940
and for people who suffer with migraine, you know, colours can be triggers. And so we created

579
00:47:59,940 --> 00:48:05,600
a palette of colours that works really well for people who are super sort of, you know,

580
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:10,760
have migraines and to help relieve that, to help to sort of not have those triggers in

581
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:12,640
your home anymore and create a calm environment.

582
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,960
There's so many people who have migraines who don't know that.

583
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:19,400
It's a huge amount of people in the world suffer from migraine. And so if you live in

584
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,920
a migraine friendly decorated environment and these colours are absolutely beautiful,

585
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:30,000
they're so beautiful, they're so tranquil, they're just gorgeous. This is a beautiful

586
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:34,040
palette of colours. So you can look on the Dulux website and look for the migraine friendly

587
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:40,280
palette. So you see, we're talking about colour as this magical tool, aren't we? I love it

588
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:45,240
when people say, it must be really nice working colour and it is the best job in the world.

589
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:51,400
But when you start to dive into what the day job is and how you're using this incredible

590
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:56,520
tool to transform lives for the better, that's your mission is to make life better with colour.

591
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:01,000
I mean, what a fantastic thing. And every day we'll learn something new about it and

592
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,480
to be able to use it to make life better.

593
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:04,480
It's so big.

594
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:09,240
Yeah, it's huge. We don't fully understand it. We understand it on certain levels, but

595
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:13,720
we don't understand the full power of colour. We really don't because it's the, we have

596
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:18,960
been genetically designed, you know, from our, colour gives us an advantage as human

597
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:26,760
beings over other human beings and as animals, if you like. So our ability to see colour

598
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:31,280
helps us to be able to see ripe fruit, to be able to make choices. So colour vision

599
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:36,520
is fundamental to the success of human beings on the planet and we don't know enough about

600
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,040
it. It's a bit like the deep ocean. So I've got plenty to learn.

601
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:41,040
We both have.

602
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:47,320
I do. I love learning. That's why I do the podcast. I'm learning from you now. I learn

603
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:52,920
from everybody who comes in. It's great. Every day is a school day. Do you have any real

604
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:58,440
life life examples of projects where colour has significantly impacted the design of success?

605
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,800
I suppose we might have loads and loads of them because our colour teams are working

606
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:06,840
on them all the time. So everything from hotels to big social housing projects, they'll, they've

607
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:13,440
got, I mean, literally we'll have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them. I'm thinking

608
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:19,520
off the top of my head. There are so many of them. I mean, simply painting the door

609
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,960
of a community centre in a bright colour to remind people that it's a community centre,

610
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,520
taking the colour onto the edge of the doors to actually sort of show this is the door

611
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:32,600
of the community centre. Just that as an example, it's a community centre in a social housing

612
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,720
project. Can't remember where it was, but just that pop of colour that reminded people,

613
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:41,000
this was a space for them. This is a space where fun happened. And it was just this pop

614
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:46,600
of orange. It's just beautiful. But colour, we've got so many of them. I don't know where

615
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:47,600
to start.

616
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:52,280
Yeah. We've just done, we were talking about it on a podcast that the previous podcast

617
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:56,200
that I just did about commercial kitchens. And we worked with Gratt Brothers on Arena

618
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:02,720
Racing, which was Southwell race course or Southwell, wherever you live. If you live

619
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:06,480
in Southwell, it's called Southwell. If you don't, it's called Southwell. Really, I don't

620
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:12,520
know why. But in Southwell, what we did was we came up with a colour palette and Dulux

621
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:19,760
Colours where it complimented their brand. So with Arena Racing, they've got sites all

622
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:28,160
over the country and we work with their head office. So we've got an overall colour palette

623
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:35,960
for their whole, all of their sites. And then this one, this particular site, their brand

624
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:46,720
was a really grassy green colour. So we put more of that tone in. And we've put this orange

625
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:51,600
in that really compliment, like a terracotta orange, that really lovely colour that's on

626
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:55,840
trend. Am I allowed to say that? That's on trend at the moment. And we put that with

627
00:51:55,840 --> 00:52:03,240
the green and we didn't, we just did pops. So it was pillars and surrounds and the odd

628
00:52:03,240 --> 00:52:08,120
feature wall in the green and then the terracotta as well. And then everything else was really,

629
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:14,880
really neutral. And it just looked amazing. It just looked, and we didn't, we did have

630
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:19,400
a really tight budget, especially going towards the end because the insurance company decided

631
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:24,280
they weren't going to pay out as much as we thought they were going to. So we were like,

632
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:29,160
all hands on deck to value engineer everything. So it was like, right, let's use the paint

633
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:36,400
and let's use some real bold colours. And it just looked awesome. And it was really bold

634
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,920
and you wouldn't probably sit, you wouldn't put this green in your living room because

635
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:45,440
it would be so really oppressive. But on pops of colour as you go through, it just really

636
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:50,080
made it. And they were, when I first came up with the idea, the client was just like,

637
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:55,880
whoa, that's a lot. And I'm like, yeah. I'm like, just trust me. And he's like, okay.

638
00:52:55,880 --> 00:53:01,120
And he went, they went with it. Thank you guys. Thank you guys. And yeah, I was really,

639
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:06,440
really pleased with the result. It was brilliant. Really, really cool. Even in the hotel rooms,

640
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:11,960
we did it. We did some green. Brilliant. I love a commercial project for doing that because

641
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,280
you can do that because people are there just for a brief amount of time and that just gives

642
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:19,680
them what they want. It's just like little nuggets of joy and fun, you know, but you

643
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:22,920
can't tend, you tend not to be able to do that so easily at home because you're going

644
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,120
to be there for a lot longer. You wouldn't wear the same outfit every day for the next

645
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:30,520
five years, but you kind of have to decorate a living room or a kitchen or a bedroom and

646
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:34,920
that has to be for the next five years. So you have to get it right. Absolutely. I always

647
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:40,920
like dressing things like with color, like in my house, I would always go, okay, I'm

648
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:49,480
going to change that wall. Quite a lot. This sunt is going to be white. But even with the

649
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:54,720
wallpaper, I've got a feature wall where it's a Brown McKenzie wallpaper and it's like this

650
00:53:54,720 --> 00:54:00,280
greenhouse effect with these cheese plants, but like these ones. Can you see those? Yes.

651
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:05,040
And so it's got these cheese plants and all these other different plants in there. And

652
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:08,800
so it's really busy, this wallpaper, but it's got loads of like tones in it. So I'm kind

653
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:14,040
of like, at the moment, the wall is kind of like this really lovely, what's last year's

654
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:19,040
color of the year called? Sweet embrace. Sweet embrace. Really similar to that, but slightly

655
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:26,240
kind of more taupey, not so pink. And I'm going to go white next and the white wall,

656
00:54:26,240 --> 00:54:29,440
so it looks quite cozy at the moment, but when I go white, it's going to look a little

657
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:35,160
bit more clean and sharp. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's really, it's really interesting.

658
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:46,360
Good. Tangent again. We're not on a tangent again. Right.

659
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:50,600
Do you have any advice for selecting colors for different spaces? For example, kitchens

660
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:57,020
and bedrooms? Coming back to color, color, choosing colors for different spaces is as

661
00:54:57,020 --> 00:54:59,760
an interior designer, you'll be doing that. You'll be looking at materials. So you're

662
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,880
always starting with the materials, the big elements, you know, what's the carpet color?

663
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:07,640
What are the fabrics? What are the, and then you work the colors around it. So that would

664
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:11,280
always be a great starting point. So think about the most expensive thing in the room

665
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,600
and then work around it. So if you're stuck with a set of curtains or a carpet, you've

666
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:21,080
got to work around that. You can't ignore it. But in terms of say for kitchens, what

667
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,960
do you do in the kitchen? Do you want your family to come together and eat together?

668
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,680
Do you want to, or in a commercial environment, do you want people to be really stimulated?

669
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:33,200
Do you want it to be amazingly stimulating and memorable? And if that's the case, then

670
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:36,240
you would probably choose warm colors. You'd choose colors that bring people together that

671
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:41,720
stimulate the appetite, stimulate conversation. What colors stimulate appetite? Reds and oranges,

672
00:55:41,720 --> 00:55:47,640
yellows are the same. So the colors that remind us of food, delicious, ripe food, tasty, spicy

673
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:52,920
food, and that gets us going. If you want a kitchen to be more tranquil, to sort of

674
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:57,800
be a bit more laid back, greens are fabulous in a kitchen because you can dial up the reds

675
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:03,240
and colors in vegetables and accessories and it sort of creates this more calm atmosphere.

676
00:56:03,240 --> 00:56:07,680
So if you're prone to a bit of an argument at suppertime as family, busy family, there's

677
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:13,080
what's when the rows kick off, then don't choose red. And if you want to lose weight

678
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,660
a little bit in the kitchen, so if you're wanting to sort of not hit the fridge quite

679
00:56:16,660 --> 00:56:24,040
so much, choose colors that are less appetizing. So blues and greens, violets like tinge of

680
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:28,680
violet, those are colors in nature that we don't eat, tend to eat, so it doesn't turn

681
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:32,160
us on appetite-wise. We don't start to salivate when we start to sing.

682
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:36,400
I did not think that you would be giving people advice on how to lose weight in this podcast,

683
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,880
but this is good. I'm loving this. I think my kitchen is going to have to go blue.

684
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,480
It's an association. I mean, green is great because it will promote healthy eating and

685
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,840
it's also one of the neutral colors that works with everything. Red will stimulate your appetite.

686
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:55,200
Red will get the juices flowing in conversation, in taste buds as well. Blues, we don't tend

687
00:56:55,200 --> 00:57:02,320
to find anything in nature much other than poisons and blues, so we tend not to. That

688
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:07,500
color is definitely a less appetizing color, but it's also a calming color. So if you do

689
00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:12,400
tend to find, I mean, my mom and dad used to row like cats and dogs at lunchtime, dinnertime.

690
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,920
They loved it. And we had an orange kitchen and I don't know whether that's just in my

691
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:21,160
mind. I'm thinking, of course, that's why they're red. So I do not have, I have a deep,

692
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:25,680
dark blue kitchen. We never row. I don't know whether that's got anything to do with it.

693
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:29,400
I mean, that's just silly. But these, you never know.

694
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,980
Color can affect. I mean, if you think about passion in the bedroom, if your love life

695
00:57:32,980 --> 00:57:37,400
is flagging a little, get a bit of red going on in there because that's the color of passion

696
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:41,400
and excitement. If there's too much passion going on there, then pull out the green card.

697
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:47,640
There's never too much passion. But yeah, color for different areas of the house, depending

698
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:52,320
on what you want to happen. And then start looking at how the color appears on the wall.

699
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:57,320
So blues and greens and violets are receding colors. They look further away from you. They

700
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:03,200
have shorter wavelengths. So if you want spaces to be bigger, so for a living room or a hallway

701
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:07,720
and landing, if you want that to appear bigger, choose the colors that are receding, paler

702
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:11,920
versions of them. If you want to create cozy, warm environments, then you'll choose the

703
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:18,200
warmer colors. So warmer taupes and browns and creams and oranges, yellows and reds.

704
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,680
And those will create that lovely cozy environment. They're longer wavelength colors. And so the

705
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:26,120
walls look closer to you. It's what you want to happen in a space rather than the space

706
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:30,320
itself. I was thinking about what do you want to happen in this space? Do you want to feel

707
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:33,760
refreshed? Do you want to feel calm? Do you want to eat well? Do you want to pull people

708
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,840
together and then use the power of color to get that result?

709
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:46,440
I love that so much.

710
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,960
So what common mistakes do people make?

711
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:55,200
With color or with paint or both? So paint we talked about using the wrong paint in the

712
00:58:55,200 --> 00:59:01,240
wrong environment, not doing your prep. So prep is the pig of a job that you have to

713
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:05,880
get the prep done properly. If you employing a decorator, the decorator will spend days

714
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,600
and days and days doing the prep and then literally when the click of his fingers or

715
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:13,800
her fingers, the job will be done. The color will be on the walls, but it's all in the

716
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:20,680
prep. So prep, prep, prep, you know, good prep has lasting results for good paint. So

717
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:25,640
good paint, good prep. And then when it comes to color, I think, you know, if you're sharing

718
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:30,400
a space with somebody, share it with them before you chuck it on the walls, try a tester,

719
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:35,360
always do a tester, use the visualizer tool on the app so you can see what the color might

720
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:40,000
look like on the walls before you commit to buying the paint. Because paint, although

721
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:44,800
it's not an expensive element of the room, probably the cheapest for the biggest impact,

722
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:49,840
is still expensive and you don't want to make a mistake. So try and visualize it before you

723
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:53,640
start. Work out how that color is going to look with all of your other elements. You

724
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:57,240
know, the most expensive thing you probably have in your room is the sofa or the rug or

725
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:02,760
the carpet, you know, the rug or the curtains. And so how does that color look with those

726
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:08,960
elements? Because paint's easy to change and all of the other elements aren't. Yeah, I

727
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:13,360
think try before you buy. I think that's probably the best bit of advice. Testers before you

728
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:15,040
go fall in. Yeah.

729
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:22,160
I love a tester. I'm going to get the interior pallets on the wall in the entrance here.

730
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:23,480
I've put True Joy up there.

731
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:24,480
Oh, lovely. Oh, lovely.

732
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:29,880
Sort of swatch on there. But I want to get like the stories. Because it just, yeah, they're

733
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:34,840
so inspiring and they're so current for me. Anyway, they are the colors that I'm using

734
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:43,240
already and it's just, yeah, it's really captured it. It's lovely.

735
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:44,560
Good.

736
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:49,040
So Dulux have lots of tools.

737
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:50,040
We do.

738
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:54,760
How, can you give us a bit of advice on how successfully to use those tools?

739
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:59,960
The best thing to do is to go onto the Dulux Trade Paint Expert website or the Dulux Trade

740
01:00:59,960 --> 01:01:04,640
website and they'll have tools for professional designers. So everything from plug-in tools

741
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:11,040
for your laptop or your PC or your tablet to show you all of the pallets. They have

742
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,840
specifier tools. We have an amazing eye for color, which is a little digital tool that

743
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:20,080
actually gives you a color match. They're brilliant. Aren't they absolutely brilliant?

744
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:26,040
There are so many tools. We are never short of tools. And even the color cards, like the

745
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:30,560
Dulux Heritage Color Card, it is a tool. So it shows you which colors work with each other.

746
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,440
It puts them into color families. It gives you the perfect white for each of the color

747
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:40,840
pillars. So everything we design that we give to architects, designers and specifiers and

748
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:46,000
our customers is a tool in itself. Everything from the color cards to a digital plug-in

749
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:52,480
tool. So check out the website because it's absolutely packed with some with with tools

750
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,480
you can download or order. It's also one of my favorite tools and nobody really knows

751
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:02,800
about this. And it's one of my favorite ever tools. It's called the Interior Designers.

752
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:07,280
What is it called? The Dulux? It's the most boring name. It's not very sexy. So it's the

753
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:12,960
Dulux Trade Paint Expert for interior designers and it's a little tablet tool. It's a tool

754
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:16,960
that you can have on your tablet and it's the most amazing thing. So you can create

755
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:22,520
little mood boards. But what you can do is you can put a photograph of the interior that

756
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:27,120
you've got there or the carpet or the cushions. So you can start to create a mood board but

757
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:33,320
it has this magic color picking tool. And you can look into a photograph and pick from

758
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:40,360
thousands of colors. So it will identify colors from fabrics in infinitesimal detail. And

759
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:44,920
then it will give you the color palette and it will give you a coordinating contrasting

760
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:51,440
tone. It's amazing. And then you can order from the website and from that app little

761
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:56,640
swatches of painted hand-painted samples. So for your mood boards you can get real ones

762
01:02:56,640 --> 01:03:04,360
for free. It's amazing. I use that app every single day. So if I'm looking at something

763
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:08,720
or I'm trying to choose a color or I'm trying to put a palette of colors together I use

764
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:12,440
that. I literally do use it every single day and you can put annotation on it. You can

765
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:18,240
put your logo on it. You can send it to clients. It's probably something you do on a slightly

766
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:22,680
different app but I got my tablet with me all the time and I'm using it all the time.

767
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:26,680
That's amazing. I'm going to put a link in the bio because that is awesome.

768
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:32,520
It is not a very sexy sounding app but it is the best. It's simply every designer that

769
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:37,160
I work with, all of our cut they all absolutely love this app. It's brilliant and it has all

770
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:39,880
of the color palettes on it.

771
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:43,880
How does Dulux incorporate sustainability into their product lines?

772
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:47,440
Sustainability is at the heart of everything we do. If we're not sustainable we don't survive.

773
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:51,960
We are not in the business of destroying the planet. So we hit all of our VOC targets of

774
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:59,000
zero VOCs. We have some amazing schemes. We've just celebrated a million liters of recycled

775
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:04,840
paint being made, paint being taken back and made into new paint.

776
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:06,960
Where would you take that paint from?

777
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,600
The Community Repaint Scheme is absolutely fantastic. We've been supporting this for

778
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:16,920
nearly 30 years. So basically if you or your decorator has paint, leftover paint, if they've

779
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:21,200
got Dulux, well actually any paint can go back to a Dulux decorator center. So they

780
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:25,480
will recycle it and take it away and we will recycle the paint. If you take it to a Community

781
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:30,680
Repaint Center, so you can find these online, so just put in Community Repaint Center near

782
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:38,640
you and it's basically a household refuse tip that will take the paint, we will redistribute

783
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:43,120
the paint to communities and to charitable projects. If it's really, really good we'll

784
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:47,120
sell it for peppercorn amounts to people who are running their own businesses and then

785
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:52,720
we'll recycle the stuff that we can't give away. So we want, we are committed to not

786
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:57,840
wasting a drop. I mean the biggest environmental impact is probably people washing their brushes

787
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:04,080
badly or chucking paint into the tip. So we need to encourage people and help them not

788
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:09,640
to chuck away paint that can be used and saved or made into new paint. So washing your brushes,

789
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:14,300
washing your rollers really well, using every last drop. I mean if a decorator, all decorators

790
01:05:14,300 --> 01:05:19,200
know this but there's a magic tool for getting paint out of a roller where you would literally,

791
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:24,120
you can, it's about 250 mils worth of paint in a roller and paint isn't cheap and it's

792
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:27,600
also harmful to the environment if you flush it down the sink or you just chuck it away

793
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:34,200
in a tip. So save every drop. We don't want to waste a drop because that's the future

794
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:38,200
of the planet. We don't want to mess about the planet. We are a huge paint manufacturer.

795
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:43,200
There's no denying what we make is we make paint but we want to commit that we have as

796
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:48,960
much as possible a circular manufacturing process so everything gets used and not thrown

797
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:54,240
away. Then when we pass the paint into the hands of our decorators and DIYers we give

798
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:59,600
them means to be able to recycle that and take it somewhere and redistribute it, put

799
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:04,560
every drop on the walls and paint is a protective coating for the things that you love and you

800
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:08,000
spend money on and if you've got the right paint things will last longer.

801
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:14,560
Do you supply a paint, just really, really random question, do you supply a paint that

802
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:17,320
you can put on top of wallpaper?

803
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:21,560
You can put any paint on top of wallpaper. It's just how well the wallpaper's been, it's

804
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:25,040
how well it's been stuck and what kind of wallpaper it is. So if it's a vinyl paper,

805
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:31,480
if you put on a multi-purpose or a primer for difficult surfaces, a primer, so you've

806
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:35,400
got a really good stick to it so that stick it to the vinyl. But generally as soon as

807
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:40,440
you put any liquid onto a wallpaper, if it's not been stuck down really, really well it's

808
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:41,880
going to start bubbling up.

809
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:48,000
I'm thinking about, because I do a lot of commercial environments, sometimes I'll specify

810
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:55,160
a paper that's not as durable as I would like it to be. So therefore I would use a decorator's

811
01:06:55,160 --> 01:07:02,840
varnish and that's what I'm being told by the wallpaper company to say. Do you know

812
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:03,840
what that is?

813
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:08,640
Decorative, well, Polyvine are a great company that do a decorator's varnish. So Polyvine

814
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:12,640
do a water-based dead flat varnish which is absolutely fantastic. You've got to be really

815
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:17,560
careful on a dark wallpaper because if you put it on too thick it can leave a milky film

816
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:22,120
but it's water-based, it's super, super tough. You can get it from Dulux decorator centers.

817
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:27,360
So if you're looking for something specific or any advice, we have a technical advice

818
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:28,840
line who are unbelievable.

819
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:29,840
They are amazing.

820
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:35,280
And if you go into a Dulux decorator center and ask them, you tell them, I had a fantastic,

821
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:39,440
somebody phoned me up there, they wanted to paint a load of leather suitcases that were

822
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:43,720
going to go, it was an art piece, so it was going to go outside on the top of a church

823
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:45,800
and it was something like 60 suitcases.

824
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:46,800
Oh you love it.

825
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:47,800
I love it.

826
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:51,000
It's only paint but this is the paint that you can use and it'll keep it going for a

827
01:07:51,000 --> 01:08:00,400
little while but it won't last forever but it's paint. But there's a paint for everything.

828
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:05,480
How can designers use color to support eco-friendly and regenerative design practices?

829
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:12,240
I mean, we've just talked about, you know, never waste a drop. Make sure that your decorator

830
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:14,480
takes all of the old paint to a community repair center.

831
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:17,200
You have a conversation with the decorators, isn't it?

832
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:21,240
Absolutely. Make sure that you order the right amount. So use a paint calculator to make

833
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:27,080
sure, I mean, your decorator will do this. Because the idea is that it's precious stuff

834
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:32,880
and we don't want to waste it. So use it wisely. Make sure that you buy the right amount and

835
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:35,800
then anything that you've got left behind, you know, obviously you're going to save a

836
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:39,520
little bit for little touch-ups but then take it to a community repaint center where the

837
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:43,860
community can use it. It can be donated to good causes or made into new paint.

838
01:08:43,860 --> 01:08:50,520
Is there anything else that you would like to say to our audience that you feel is really,

839
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:56,200
really important and current at the moment?

840
01:08:56,200 --> 01:09:02,040
Use more color. The thing I want to say to your audience is use more color. Color is

841
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:08,680
the cheapest way and the most effective way to transform the way we feel in the spaces

842
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:14,480
that we're living in today. And color is more powerful than we can possibly imagine. And

843
01:09:14,480 --> 01:09:18,560
interior designers, you talked about, we talked about color psychology. I think interior designers

844
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:25,240
are sort of psychologists anyway. We unlock the potential of marriage counselors, family

845
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:30,440
counselors and color is one of the most important and powerful tools in your toolbox.

846
01:09:30,440 --> 01:09:37,160
Absolutely. Amazing. Marianne, thank you so much for coming to sit on the sofa with me.

847
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:44,120
I really, really appreciate your time and I appreciate your education for the designers

848
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:48,080
as well who are listening to this and the aspiring designers. So yeah, thank you so,

849
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:49,080
so much.

850
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:53,520
Oh, Haley, it's been my great, great pleasure. Who cannot want to spend time with you talking

851
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:55,640
about the thing I love more than anything else?

852
01:09:55,640 --> 01:10:03,720
Oh, you have the best job in the world.

853
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:07,320
Thank you for joining us on the Interior Design Podcast. If you liked this episode, please

854
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:14,840
like, share and leave us a review. We're on YouTube, Facebook and Instagram at interiordesign.podcast

855
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:20,020
and on LinkedIn as Interior Design Podcast. We really value your feedback. If you have

856
01:10:20,020 --> 01:10:25,360
any ideas on topics you'd like us to cover or people that you would like us to interview,

857
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:55,120
please get in touch. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next time.