1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,760
Welcome to the Interior Design Podcast. I'm Hayley Roy, a commercial interior designer

2
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,640
with a passion for creating beautiful functional spaces.

3
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:21,760
And I'm Cheryl Sutton, an interior designer and architectural designer. Hayley and I have

4
00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,600
worked together on various projects over the years and have plenty of insights to share

5
00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,200
with you guys.

6
00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:32,120
On many episodes, Cheryl and I team up to bring you engaging and lively discussions.

7
00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:36,200
Our differing views often lead to interesting debates, giving you two sides of many topics

8
00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:42,600
we cover. While Cheryl won't be on every episode when she does join, it's always insightful.

9
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:47,320
Thanks. We started this podcast because we feel strongly about interior design and the

10
00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:52,120
importance of educating designers. A lot of what you'll hear from us, you won't learn

11
00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,840
in a course. As designers, there's so much we need to know in order to do our jobs well.

12
00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:01,040
And we want to give you a forum where you can access the information you need. Whether

13
00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:06,880
you are an aspiring designer, someone designing your own home or a seasoned professional working

14
00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:11,760
in a residential or commercial design, this podcast is here to help you improve and thrive.

15
00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,340
We're not about ego stroking interviews with big names. Instead, we focus on practical

16
00:01:16,340 --> 00:01:19,520
advice that you can apply directly to your work.

17
00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:24,880
You'll learn about different products, their applications and sustainability practices.

18
00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:29,440
Our goal is to equip you with the knowledge you need to excel in your projects. And remember,

19
00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:36,480
if it's not fun, we're not doing it. So expect also expect a bit of humor and a few expletives

20
00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:42,520
along the way. Maybe a few innuendos. Now a quick note on production. We are interior

21
00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:47,040
designers, not sound producers. I'm handling the editing myself. So please be patient

22
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:52,920
with any technical glitches. I'm improving my production skills as the podcast progresses.

23
00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:59,120
And I appreciate your understanding. However, if there are any editors, sound editors out

24
00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,520
there who'd like to volunteer their skills in return for a mention, please feel free

25
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:09,620
to reach out. Thanks for tuning into the interior design podcast. Let's dive in and start this

26
00:02:09,620 --> 00:02:16,920
journey of learning and fun together. Hello listeners. We've got people all over the world

27
00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:23,320
listening to this now. Have we? It's amazing. Like Australia, America. That's pretty cool.

28
00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:28,040
Fiji. That's pretty cool. I know, right? How many countries? Maybe we need to go over there

29
00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:34,040
and do a podcast. Yeah, I think I think Fiji. I think Fiji needs to pay us to go over there

30
00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:41,320
and do it. Welcome to the interior design podcast. Hi. Where we are in our new studio

31
00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:51,520
and we've got video. We've got a little round set up. It's amazing. This is my warehouse.

32
00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:58,360
Would you know it? I love it. Cheryl was here sweating yesterday. I've set up all the microphones

33
00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:04,440
and I moved the furniture. Cheryl created this. I brought the muscles and you bring

34
00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:11,240
the brains. I'm the braids and you're the brawn. No, I don't know about that. I'm not

35
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,840
sure about that. After we tried to lift this carpet yesterday and Hannah had to help us

36
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:21,080
and I'm like, I can't lift it. So weak. But yeah, I think we've done really well. It looks

37
00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:26,640
amazing. It looks amazing. And I actually, I really love the fact, Haley, that we're

38
00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:32,640
in the warehouse. I've just got, I just got a really nice vibe about it. It's a bit funky,

39
00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:36,560
isn't it? A bit of a mess over that side. Yeah. Don't look over there. It looks great

40
00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:47,600
here. So what are we talking about today? We are talking about the process of interior

41
00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:52,160
design from concept through to completion. So Cheryl, do you want to start us off? It

42
00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:56,000
sounds really straightforward, doesn't it? Like, you know, from an outsider's perspective,

43
00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:01,200
you'd think that the design process would be a straight line. Then you do concept, you

44
00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:07,920
get your brief, you do concept boards and you take it through a process. But as with

45
00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:12,800
anything and everything, it's never as straightforward as that. It's always, you know, it kind of

46
00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,880
goes off in different directions and it's maybe one step forward and a couple of steps

47
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:22,400
back along the way. But I say, so from my point of view, it depends, doesn't it, upon

48
00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:28,560
the client? If the client has got a really clear vision of what they're trying to create

49
00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:34,480
in a space, you as designers, we take, obviously we take direction from that. But then I think

50
00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:40,960
some of the challenging schemes that we work on are the ones where there's almost no real

51
00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:48,880
brief and no real kind of direction or, and it's okay if they don't have an opinion and

52
00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,280
then you just crack on with it and do it. But the trouble is when they don't give you direction

53
00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:56,480
and they don't like what you've done or you kind of don't know where to go, you don't

54
00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,880
get any feedback. Feedback is so important, isn't it?

55
00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:05,880
So no, always for me initially starting off with getting a really good understanding from

56
00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:11,840
the client of what they are looking to achieve in terms of the feel of the space. Obviously

57
00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:16,880
we've spoken about, we've touched on before I think on a podcast about the importance

58
00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:22,960
of the connection of design in relation to brand. If you're, obviously if we're looking

59
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:28,600
at kind of commercial businesses. But my first point of call will always be just getting

60
00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:34,160
as much information from the client as possible and then starting to pull together a visual

61
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:46,040
representation of where I think the design should head. And then, and like signposting,

62
00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:51,080
so they're constantly giving feedback at every stage throughout the process.

63
00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,960
Do you know what I always find that when you talk to the client a lot right at the beginning,

64
00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:57,160
you don't have to redo stuff. Yeah.

65
00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,720
Cause you're just on the same page as them.

66
00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:05,360
Well yeah, and also you're actively listening. I think, you know, there's probably situations

67
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:10,000
where you can ask loads of questions, but if you're not listening properly, you're not

68
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,280
going to get it right, are you?

69
00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:15,240
I always say that the most important thing about being a designer is the ability to listen.

70
00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:23,240
Just like my mantra, because I love tapping into other people. And I think the difference

71
00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:28,360
between designers is huge and some designers have got their own style and you go to that

72
00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:33,080
designer because they have that certain style. But most people don't want that. They want

73
00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:39,160
you to realize their dream. They want to come to you and go, this is what I want, make it

74
00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:44,240
happen. And you know, and I get so much pleasure out of that because I'm really good at being

75
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,080
able to communicate and tap into the client.

76
00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:53,240
It's almost like you take, it's almost like, yeah, there's a feeling, isn't there? I like,

77
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,880
am I going to explain this? For me, there's this feeling.

78
00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,280
There's something in you.

79
00:06:57,280 --> 00:06:58,280
Yeah. Sorry.

80
00:06:58,280 --> 00:07:02,600
It's always been in me.

81
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,600
Something in me. Do you remember that on the About Us one?

82
00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,080
Yes I do. Thank you for pulling that.

83
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:13,120
Sorry, if you want to hear about what we're talking about, listen to the About Us podcast.

84
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:14,360
It's always been in me.

85
00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:15,360
Anyway.

86
00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:16,760
Sorry, I completely distracted you there.

87
00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:21,320
Yeah, because now I've got to try and remember what it was. I think for me, there's this

88
00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:27,960
feeling that I get when a client comes up with an idea or a vision and it's just like

89
00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:34,320
a little seed and then you take that and you develop it and you grow it. And that's where

90
00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:38,640
the, for me, that's where the real kind of satisfaction comes in because then you deliver

91
00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:45,200
that back to the client with this, they would have been happy with you just taking their

92
00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,600
idea and implementing that, but you've not done it. You've thought-

93
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:50,600
You make it better.

94
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:56,840
You make it better. Yeah. And I think that's, I love that. I think that's just really cool.

95
00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:02,200
Yeah. Now I really like working with people rather than, I always say to people, I work

96
00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:09,600
for you. What do you want and what can we do? And what I'm going to do is grow it and

97
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:15,000
give you tons of ideas and I'll feed these out into you maybe with some options, maybe

98
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,160
do some, so the first thing I would do is have that meeting with a client, ask them

99
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:24,920
millions of questions. Million, not millions, not literally millions.

100
00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:26,280
Lots and lots of questions.

101
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:32,120
A lot of questions. Things like, I mean, I was in a meeting the other day doing the,

102
00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:39,560
initial consultation and I was asking the client about their brand and the guy who owned

103
00:08:39,560 --> 00:08:45,240
the business was there and the guy who, I'm working on a garden center restaurant, like

104
00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,360
a 250-seater restaurant, and there was an owner and then there was a manager and the

105
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:55,960
manager was so lovely. He was just so, he was so in with the business and I love working

106
00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:00,920
with people like that because you know, and the business was really successful with a

107
00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:06,400
very dated interior, so you always know that whatever you do to that restaurant is going

108
00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:15,640
to make that more successful. So yeah, so, but my point was in concept stage, I was like,

109
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:22,000
so what's your values? So, you know, in a business you have a vision and a mission normally,

110
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,640
don't you? What's your vision? What's your mission? What are your values? You know, they're

111
00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,840
good things to ask a business or a personal client, you know, what's your mission? You

112
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,280
know, what's your, not necessarily what's your vision and mission, but maybe what's

113
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:38,000
your values? You know, are you a family person or are you a, so yeah, I was asking this guy

114
00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,200
what are your values? And he kind of rolled his eyes.

115
00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:42,200
Oh, did he?

116
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:48,160
And he was like, oh God, here we go. This is the fluffy bit. And he was really not,

117
00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:49,680
I mean, he knows he's got to do it.

118
00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:53,520
The thing is, some people are receptive to that kind of stuff and others are not.

119
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:57,600
And you've got to shut up if they're not because they just don't want to hear it. So like,

120
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,440
I, yeah, because you like just keep banging on about it.

121
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:01,440
Some people love it.

122
00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,360
No, but I want to understand what your ethics and values are.

123
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:04,360
Yeah.

124
00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:05,360
But please, what are they?

125
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,040
Just stop talking at that point and listen to the rolling of the eyes, you know, just

126
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:14,480
get the hint. But so some of my questions are obviously vision, mission, values. The

127
00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:20,440
next one is if your brand were a person, who would it be? And I nearly asked the question

128
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:21,440
just to see his reaction.

129
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:27,080
I mean, I'm not going to lie, Haley. That one makes me feel a little bit, I'm not comfortable

130
00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:28,080
with that one.

131
00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:32,280
Oh my God, though. You know, the noodle bar and culture sit though. They told me, Sue,

132
00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:37,760
who is this? Who's the gay lady on telly Sue something?

133
00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:38,760
Sue Perkins.

134
00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:44,040
Sue Perkins. That was their person. Right. And even as a business.

135
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:45,040
Yeah.

136
00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,080
They were Sue Perkins.

137
00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,560
Yeah. Is it Sue Perkins? The one who used?

138
00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:50,560
Dark hair.

139
00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:52,040
Yeah, yeah. Short hair. Always wears suits.

140
00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:57,440
Yeah. Dated. Oh God. What's her name? Other woman that does.

141
00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:58,960
Claudia Winkleman.

142
00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,560
Oh, Claudia Winkleman.

143
00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:07,680
Claudia Winkleman used. Oh God. I might have got that totally wrong. I don't keep up with

144
00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:18,080
any kind of current affairs. You know, that's interesting. But I also don't like that question.

145
00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,320
Don't ever ask me that question.

146
00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,800
I think I asked you that question when you were branding Rebel.

147
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,400
What as a person? Like, who would I be if I was a person?

148
00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,080
I think it's in my branding workshop.

149
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,600
No, it's not. Oh, do you remember when we did that branding workshop? And then after

150
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,880
about three and a half hours, we were sat in the studio, in the old studio. Do you remember

151
00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:38,880
it?

152
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:39,880
Yeah.

153
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:40,880
In the evening?

154
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:41,880
Yeah.

155
00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:42,880
We'd have pizza.

156
00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:43,880
It was amazing.

157
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,720
We were drinking gin. Yeah, I remember literally sitting in the studio for three and a bit

158
00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:53,400
hours, like getting a little bit drunk with you eating pizza. And then it was literally

159
00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,880
a light bulb moment. Do you remember? And we both went.

160
00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:57,880
Never forget that.

161
00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:02,440
And I was like, Oh, God, that's it. That is it. This is the name. This is the brand. And

162
00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:09,000
you were like, Oh, my fucking God. Yes. 100% you. I was like, Mm hmm. That's what we're

163
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,000
doing.

164
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,480
But that's the joy of the branding workshop. So this is this is another thing that I would

165
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:17,800
do as a process. If someone didn't know what their brand was or who their brand was. So

166
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:23,560
you quite often go into a really successful business and they've got a logo. They don't

167
00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:27,640
know what the personality is. They want to change the logo. They don't know what it represents.

168
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,160
They want, you know, they want someone to just redesign it for them. But it's just not

169
00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:37,480
it's for me so much more than just a logo. Yeah. Like you want to know the personality

170
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,960
of that business. You want to know who it is. Yeah. And this is where that question

171
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,520
comes in. But when I gave that question to the noodle bar, they were all over it. They

172
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,040
loved it. So you've got to be you've got to really tap into your audience. And you've

173
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,280
got if you have a list of questions like that, like if your brand was a person, who would

174
00:12:54,280 --> 00:13:02,720
it be? Cheryl fucking hates that. But I love it. I'm all over it. Who would I be? Who would

175
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:11,320
I be? You would be a rebel. You would be you. Harp design. Who would I be? Oh, I don't know

176
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:15,160
enough celebrities. No, I was going to say exactly the same thing. Maybe it needs to

177
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:19,720
be like, what would your spirit animal be if you were like, I'm a monkey. Are you? I'm

178
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,200
definitely a monkey. I was born in the year of the monkey, but I've always like, I love

179
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,960
monkeys. I love monkey wallpaper. I love monkey. I loved it. We loved it when we did twire

180
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:34,560
and we did put the monkey lights. But there's some really cool ones, isn't there? But yeah,

181
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:40,760
going back to concept. Yeah. So if someone's got a brand, they they sometimes have brand

182
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:46,040
guidelines, documents, always ask for those at the beginning. But yeah, it's just asking

183
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,680
loads of questions and just being really, really in tune with your client. Having that

184
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:55,080
rapport with your client is so important, especially in residential. Yeah. Like they've

185
00:13:55,080 --> 00:14:01,800
got to like you and you've got to listen because if you don't listen, you're done on you. Something

186
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:08,720
that I actually have really tapped into with in terms of questioning at that concept, like

187
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:14,800
initial discussion stage has come about off of the conversation that we had or the podcast,

188
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,560
sorry, that we had with Karen. And, you know, we were talking about obviously psychology

189
00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:25,240
of colour. If you haven't heard that podcast, honestly, I can't recommend it enough. I think

190
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:33,160
it was the first one that we released. I learned so much from that podcast from chatting to

191
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:42,640
her. And so now that's something that I try and take into my, yeah, my job when I'm talking

192
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:47,960
to people about what they're, you know, trying to understand what they want from a space,

193
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:52,060
how they want it to feel, what that feels like, what that looks like, how that feeling

194
00:14:52,060 --> 00:14:58,120
looks like to them. It's really cool, isn't it? I love it. I love that first bit where

195
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,760
you're getting to know people and I love all of it. But oh, the first bit is definitely

196
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:10,960
the best. I think people don't necessarily, like you said earlier, like the people don't

197
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:16,200
understand how much goes into what we do. And when you start asking questions, they

198
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:33,240
realise how deep you go, you know? Sorry. Ding. Do you go really deep? Maybe. Yeah.

199
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:44,600
Sorry. Yeah. You have to. So we've talked about initial discussions with the client

200
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:50,040
is super important and gaining as much information and understanding about their brand or their

201
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:55,640
personality if they're an individual. And, you know, maybe taking on some of the elements

202
00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:03,200
that we we touched on with Karen about understanding what, what feelings or what feelings look

203
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:09,500
like to them. Obviously branding we've briefly touched on, I think. And then the next stage

204
00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:14,840
for me is about pulling together that visual representation of, OK, well, from that, all

205
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,200
of that information that you've just kindly provided, this is what I think would work

206
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:24,720
and this is what I think would look really cool. Something actually often a bit of a

207
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:29,960
tangent. I really, really, really want to do a podcast about, in fact, I think this

208
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:35,880
is what we've got Pippa coming in for, right? In September. Haley and I have, I've been

209
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:43,880
like literally saying to Haley for ages, I really want to do a podcast with an architect,

210
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:50,240
you know, fully qualified architect that where we can talk about how important it is or if

211
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,960
they don't think it's important about how the connection between interior design and

212
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,400
architecture with in terms of buildings, not just new buildings, but with maybe historic

213
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:07,840
buildings, buildings that are listed because I, that's definitely something that runs through

214
00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:14,200
my design. I'm so conscious and so aware because of the training that I've had in the degree

215
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:20,560
that I've got under my belt. Like what's your degree? Tell our listeners what your degree

216
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:28,320
is. I mean, you know, I, I studied for six years at uni and got my degree in architecture

217
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:34,000
and I only got my first part, but part one, part one, but that's, that was enough for

218
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:40,120
me. But it was good to get an understanding and, but you know, that's something that I

219
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:47,320
am really passionate actually about. I'm actually really passionate about that. And I, and I,

220
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:53,320
I think that's something that I bring to the table is not just doing something that is

221
00:17:53,320 --> 00:18:01,640
completely against what building I'm working in. You have to be in tune with the building.

222
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:07,720
If you go against it. But there is a time and a place Hayley where you can do it. But

223
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:12,320
yeah, that's something that I'm really interested in talking to Pippa about when she comes in.

224
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:18,840
Oh, I can't wait. Pippa is amazing. She's an architect. She works for her dad's partnership

225
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:24,640
and Jay architects in Ipswich. She's amazing. Yeah. She's cool. She's amazing. So yeah,

226
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:29,440
we're excited to get her on. So yeah, that's coming up. So yeah, concept images, visual

227
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:35,160
representation of, of, you know, what you, what your, your thoughts or even sketches,

228
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,800
you know, I kind of love sketching stuff out to show people, Oh, I'm thinking of this or

229
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:44,240
could do this. And again, it's always like a work in progress and it gets developed and

230
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:49,560
changed along the way. But I think don't be afraid of sketching something out and it looking

231
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:55,200
rubbish either. Even if it's just a box, just anything to communicate. Yeah. What's in your

232
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,800
head, what's in your head or what's in what you think is in their heads. And that communication

233
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,120
is so important into your design. I think you've got to constantly be reassuring the

234
00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:09,000
client that you know what you're talking about and explaining why you're doing stuff as well

235
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,240
and things like that. So that, especially the early stage concept and general arrangement

236
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:19,280
I always do together. Yeah. So, you know, Pinterest board potentially, I don't really

237
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:24,280
do that anymore unless I'm kind of messing about on my sofa on a Saturday night and I

238
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:29,360
just want to get some ideas down. But generally I'll, I'll put something straight into a design

239
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:35,920
pack and yeah, general arrangement as well. And then you, once you've got the concepts

240
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,520
in the general arrangement, you've got like the general gist of where you're going. Yeah.

241
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,840
You speak to the client about it. I was going to say, that's the point, isn't it? That's

242
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:48,360
the opportunity for you to get that first critical point of feedback from the client

243
00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:52,200
to make sure that you are in, you know, heading in the right direction. Because we do, this

244
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,920
is the other thing. You can ask as many questions as you want and think that you understand

245
00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:05,480
and you know where you need to go with something. And sometimes you get it wrong. And sometimes

246
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:10,720
you present, you present something for feedback and you get a big fat no. And you're like,

247
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,560
I hate that. I don't, I don't get that very often anymore. There's nothing wrong with

248
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,200
that. But no it isn't. That's why you check in. Because it's a process and sometimes the

249
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:24,080
process is by delimitation, isn't it? Rather than someone just going, yeah, I love it all.

250
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:29,680
And actually, do you know what? I like the clients that say, oh no, I don't think much

251
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:34,200
of that because I'm then like a dog with a bone. Oh me too. Yeah. Give me some negative

252
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:40,160
feedback. Yeah. Cause then I'm like, right, let me explain because I can justify, I think

253
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:44,720
as designers, you have to be able to justify every single decision that you're making.

254
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,600
A hundred percent. And if you can't justify it, you shouldn't be using it. You shouldn't

255
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,680
be using it because you've not given it any thought. You've literally just stuck it in.

256
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:57,320
Oh, that'll work. Rather than, oh, hang on, will it? Like, does it work with that? Does

257
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,240
it, you know? But why does it work? You're like, it has to have a meaning behind it.

258
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,040
And then it's, and then everything that you've got has got more depth. Yeah. Like, and it's

259
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:10,200
got more, and also communicating that back to your client. You might, you might have

260
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:14,040
got that thought process and all the meaning. Yeah. If you haven't communicated that back

261
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,280
to the client, they won't enjoy the interior. So yeah, getting feedback at that stage, really

262
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,520
positive, hopefully positive feedback. If not, you know, maybe a bit of negative stuff

263
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,080
needs changing, but it makes the process a lot easier, I think in the long run, doesn't

264
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,800
it? Especially in terms of like a general arrangement or a floor plan of the space that

265
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:35,640
you're, you're working on. When I get feedback, I always say, tell me what you hate. If you

266
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:40,720
even just don't like it that much, or even don't love it. I'm sure about it. Maybe I

267
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,680
don't want to put it in if you don't love it. And I'll, I'll go through it and I'll

268
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:48,280
explain why I've done everything. But if you don't like it, let's change it. Yeah. One

269
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,320
of the things that I say to my clients is I don't want you to look back into his time

270
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:56,160
and really swear about, about a decision that we're making now, because if you don't love

271
00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:02,880
it, you might be doing that. So make sure that you, you tell me, you communicate back

272
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:10,480
to me. And I sort of really encourage that. That's a difficult one though, isn't it? Because

273
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:17,200
it could be that you, you know, love something and you're completely on board with it. And

274
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:23,240
in the moment, but then in two years, three years, four, five, whatever, as naturally

275
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,960
the business evolves or your tastes evolve and change, it's natural that potentially

276
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,440
in a few years, you might be like, actually, I wish we'd have done that a bit differently.

277
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:38,040
Yeah. But you can change it, can't you? Yeah. Yeah. So after, I think the key really is

278
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:43,880
once you've kind of got to that point where you've got some feedback, good and, and potentially

279
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:48,520
areas that you can work on and develop, that's the kind of next stage really is developed

280
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:56,920
design, isn't it? Developed design is never again, just a, you know, one step in the process

281
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,920
and it's like, Oh, brilliant. Love it all. Sign it off next stage. It, you know, that

282
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:10,080
in itself brings the real depth of feedback and potential changes. Hopefully though, if

283
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:15,280
you've got the kind of concept side of things, pretty much where it needs to be, you shouldn't

284
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:20,600
have to change too much, but I think it depends on the client and how much they can visualize

285
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,360
what you're, you're saying. Cause I think some people just can't, just can't visualize

286
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:30,080
anything. Even if you've got something on a plan until you get it to a 3d visual, they're

287
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,280
just like, I have no idea what it's going to look like. You know, and some, but some

288
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,560
people are really visual and they can picture it all in their heads and they're the easier

289
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:43,360
people to work with because they can picture it as you're doing it. Yeah. It's a bit more

290
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:48,280
of a challenge isn't it? When you have to try and yeah. And if you use pictures a lot,

291
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,840
like in your concept board, this is the floor, this is the lighting. This is what I'm thinking

292
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:58,400
about. This is, and also I try and use actual things. So I'll try and use a picture where

293
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:03,240
there is something in that picture that I can, I can use. I can specify that I know

294
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:09,640
that I can get that light for example. So then the next stage isn't so difficult. So

295
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,840
when you're trying, when you just sort of searching Google and I think that comes with

296
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,520
experience, you know, of who to use and the suppliers cause you know where to get things.

297
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,240
But if you're just searching on Google, you just kind of putting together an artistic

298
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,920
impression kind of thing or something, you know, that's a picture, but actually that

299
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,880
light isn't available off the shelf. We have to have that made bespoke. Then it's just

300
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,440
not going to happen if you've got a budget. Yeah. Especially for a commercial property.

301
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,780
And I think that then comes to, you know, when we get to the point where you're kind

302
00:24:36,780 --> 00:24:43,800
of costing projects and we talk about the value engineering side of, of, of these schemes

303
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:49,080
because ultimately it is just the way that it goes. You know, things change, people's

304
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:54,600
budgets change. They can change throughout the project. It isn't just about, you know,

305
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,280
having a figure at the start of the project and that's what we're working to. People's

306
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:04,240
circumstances and business circumstances change, don't they? Yeah. I had one recently where

307
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:10,720
it was a, there was a flood and the, the client thought the insurance company was going to

308
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:16,640
pay for everything. Oh, I remember you saying. And we got about a quarter of the way through

309
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:21,880
the project sort of going, yeah, you know, don't go mad, but you know, specify what you

310
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:28,520
think is right. And we were putting the car and the floor in and herringbone and nice

311
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,960
lights and things like that. And we got past about a third the way through the project

312
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,840
and literally they were like, Oh no, the insurance company and not paying for this. And they've

313
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,880
excluded certain things that we put in and they put budgets to flooring and things like

314
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,000
that, which we didn't know, you know, and the rest of the project we had to really,

315
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:50,760
really skim on. And it was such a shame because like the first part of the project just looked

316
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:55,800
gorgeous. And then the second part of the project, I kind of, where I'd specified a

317
00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:00,400
bar with a whole lot of brickwork on it, it, it got value engineered down to four micra

318
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:05,160
and eyes and then, but do you know what? I think actually that's a, this is a really

319
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:11,640
important, that's a really important point that you've just raised because without, you

320
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:17,040
know, it's not about like selling designers and what they bring to the table. Cause hopefully

321
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:25,440
most people would appreciate what we do as a job. But I think it's so important in those

322
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:30,080
situations where you are having to value engineer something, you know, if you were a client

323
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,040
working on a project, just delivering a project on your own, actually having the expertise

324
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,400
of a designer that can say to you, right, well, we need to cut some costs here, you

325
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,960
know, and we're not generally, especially in commercial, it generally isn't small amounts,

326
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,280
you know, the, the, the economies of scale because it's a business mean that it generally

327
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,920
is a slightly larger sum of money in terms of budget that you're cutting. You know, I

328
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:57,400
think I mentioned to you the project that I was working on this year and last year,

329
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:04,440
the budget got cut almost in half and it was a, you know, we're talking like million pound

330
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:10,160
project, like in a 7 million pound project, refit, all of a sudden we had to try and make

331
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:18,760
it a three and a half million pound project. I'm like, okay. You know, and I think as a

332
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:27,200
designer having the expertise of a designer that can show you all or advise you on the

333
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:38,520
areas that you can reduce spend on without it negatively impacting the whole design.

334
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:44,440
I think that in itself is worth, we're worth our weight in gold for that. I agree. Because

335
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,000
there's a lot of people that will be like, Oh no, we'll just do that. We'll just take

336
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:52,400
that out. Like absolutely not. That is not the area that we're cutting back on because

337
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,500
that's the key. That's a key feature in the space or that's a, you know, there's other

338
00:27:56,500 --> 00:28:01,960
ways of making those savings and it's not there. Do you know what I mean? How do you

339
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:07,640
feel when you're, cause I quite often get in, you're the same as me. You have meetings

340
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:17,120
with you're in a meeting with an architect and structure engineer, you know, the contractors

341
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:24,680
and you're generally the only girl. Aren't you? Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot, there's been

342
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,440
a few, yeah, there's been a lot of situations where I am completely outnumbered, but then

343
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:34,560
at the same time that I'm, I'm there's a lot, you know, there's a lot more women in, in

344
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:42,720
construction now is in there and, and actually, sorry, you're going to ask me a question.

345
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:51,920
Can't stop talking. Can't stop talking. Is that second coffee? No breakfast and two coffees.

346
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,280
What were you going to ask me? I was going to ask you quite often you get, and I love

347
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,880
watching you in a meeting because you can hold your own with a whole lot of big hairy

348
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:08,560
men. But you often, I just wanted to talk about it really, cause you often get, some

349
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:13,280
people I think would get quite intimidated on that in that situation. And you know, you

350
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,920
and I in a meeting would both hold our own, but I can imagine some designers find that

351
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,920
really difficult. Cause you've got to be really strong. You've got to be like, I mean, I was

352
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:28,120
having a fight with someone about some flooring and they were like, well, the client wants

353
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:33,440
to carry a whole lot of barrels across this entrance matting. You know, it's going to

354
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,400
be a hundred kilos at a time. Okay. Well, there's only one kind of flooring that you

355
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:43,520
can do and that's with the metal strips in it. And the client was like, I don't want

356
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:50,840
to pay for it. So I was, it ended up having my integrity. I couldn't specify, I couldn't

357
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:55,800
actually specify what he wanted to specify and what the contractor wanted to specify

358
00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:02,640
because of the money. I couldn't put that in my design pack because it was not fit for

359
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:09,520
purpose. It's just not. So I was having this conversation with the client and you know,

360
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:14,800
and they can get quite heated, can't they? Because obviously, you know, ultimately he's

361
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:21,480
paying you for your service and your expertise, but at the same time, the buck stops with

362
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,880
the client. I don't think that ever got heated. It just, it just got, well, you can do that,

363
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,840
but it's not going in my design pack. Or if it does go in the design pack, it's going

364
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,760
with a massive disclaimer, disclaimer saying, I don't recommend this. This is a client's

365
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,280
choice. So, you know, I think you've got to keep your integrity, but you've got to be

366
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,480
able to be flexible. You know, if the client doesn't want to spend the money, it's going

367
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,120
to get destroyed in a few years. He's going to have to replace it. He's not going to come

368
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,680
knocking on my door and say, you shouldn't have specified that. You know, so.

369
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:53,480
Yeah, you do really have to cover your ass, don't you? I think to a degree.

370
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:58,920
Yeah. I don't think it's sort of ass covering. I think it's more kind of integrity, isn't

371
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:03,760
it? It's more like you've asked me to do this. Like you say, you've employed me as an interior

372
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,440
designer. I'm giving you advice. If you don't want to listen to that advice, that's absolutely

373
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,560
fine. You carry on. Yeah. You know, and you reap the consequences, but don't expect me

374
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,600
to jump on board with that. Yeah. Because I don't agree. And we can happily disagree.

375
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,800
Yeah, exactly. I'm not happy to disagree. I'm not going to get shifty about it.

376
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:27,520
That's the key, isn't it? It's about actually being able to say, I, you know, we can, yeah,

377
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:33,320
we don't have to agree on everything and there's nothing wrong with that.

378
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,800
We were going to talk about, can you design to a budget? When you say, can you design

379
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:45,240
to a budget? Oh, people ask me this all the time. Can you design to a budget? Well, that's

380
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:53,120
the job. Well, if someone has got a budget down to the last penny and you are interior

381
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:58,760
designing their restaurant and their budget is unrealistic, you can't, you know, and I

382
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,120
don't think you can design to a budget. I think if someone says to me, can you design

383
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:09,080
and project manage my restaurant or my house? I've got a hundred grand or I've got 500

384
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:15,000
grand. A hundred percent I can design to that. But if you want me to just design it and not

385
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:20,600
be involved after the design process as part of the value engineering process and everything

386
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:28,240
else, I can't design to a budget because all of the things that you want might generally,

387
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:36,880
people want more than they can afford. So someone might say, I want marble in my bathroom,

388
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,480
but the budget is this. The budget isn't marble, but it might be, it might, you never know.

389
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:47,080
You know, if you, if you don't spend money on really nice toilets and really nice basins,

390
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,880
we can make marble happen. It's just about, you've got to balance it. You've got to manage,

391
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,720
it's just playing with the money. It's got all the prices in it. It's about playing with

392
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,480
the money and making it, making it work to the budget. And I think managing, you know,

393
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:05,160
I think we've spoken about this numerous times that actually it's about managing people's

394
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:12,680
expectations throughout the process. You know, actually, like we've said before about the

395
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:19,920
ability as a designer to stand up and actually, you know, like communicate well with clients

396
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,160
about things, you know, whether it's good or bad, you know, if there's a problem on

397
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,960
a project or, you know, or if a client is saying, well, this is what I want. And, and

398
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,680
as designers are saying, you know, if it's, for example, that there's this beautiful marble

399
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,320
that they've had their eye on for years and they want that in the bathroom, but their

400
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,480
budget doesn't allow it. And you know that their budget doesn't allow it. You've got

401
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:44,840
to be upfront and honest with them and say, but then there might be one thing that that

402
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:49,560
person wants and then everything else goes out the window so we can get that one thing.

403
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:54,760
So it's just about playing with money and it's about checking everything in, be really

404
00:33:54,760 --> 00:34:01,080
aspirational and then after you've done that, you bring it down. Yeah. I think it's just

405
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:08,760
really important that you get a, and like a, a sign off and almost like a final sign

406
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:15,160
off of the development design before you start costing anything. Once developed design has

407
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:22,640
been fully developed and again, you're getting feedback from the client throughout that process.

408
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,920
You kind of get to a stage, don't you naturally get to a point where you're like, right, okay,

409
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:31,320
this is the design is pretty much with, with air with it and then maybe 95 or 99% there

410
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:37,320
with it. There might be a few points that need a bit of further development or thought,

411
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:42,120
but you're pretty much the bulk of it's done. And I think at that point, it's really important

412
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:47,780
for everyone to make everyone's life easy is to get that final kind of clarification

413
00:34:47,780 --> 00:34:52,400
from the client that they're happy with what you've come up with before you then start

414
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:58,160
taking it to the stage of, okay, we need to get this costed. And that's always a very

415
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:09,940
nerve wracking time, I think, because whilst you, whilst you can get a really good understanding

416
00:35:09,940 --> 00:35:18,360
of budget and product cost, especially in the market that we live in now in the world

417
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,960
that we live in now since, you know, we keep talking about COVID, which was so many years

418
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:31,560
ago now, but it, you know, the cost of materials and the cost of labour are just insane. I

419
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,880
mean, we've spoken about this before, you know, and I appreciate that, you know, things

420
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,240
move on and things change and the rate of inflation and, you know, naturally everything

421
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:44,520
gets more expensive, but it all happened off of COVID. It all happened off the back of

422
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:50,560
COVID naturally and Brexit, but it never, everyone was talking. I remember having conversations

423
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,640
with people and they were like, oh, it'll all come back down. It'll all come back down.

424
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,440
And I remember thinking it will go down. It will stay the same for a while. This is the

425
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:06,360
natural progression. This is how the world works. Like, but I think it's so almost, not

426
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:14,120
volatile. That's not the right word, but it's like, it changes on a weekly basis. Material

427
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:18,560
costs can change on a weekly basis. So whilst you can put all of that effort in and all

428
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,720
that time into thinking that you're working to a budget or to the client's budget, because

429
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:28,840
you know the cost of things, if the development design of the design takes three months or

430
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:37,280
six months or longer, because it's a big project, that budget almost becomes kind of potentially

431
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:42,040
out of reach, which is why then we get to the stage of costing. It's always a bit scary

432
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:47,040
and a little bit, you know, is something going to come back and be three times the price

433
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:54,600
that I thought it was because of the nature of what we've just said. And then comes the

434
00:36:54,600 --> 00:37:00,720
fun part of trying to, okay, right, let's pick it apart a little bit and look at ways

435
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:04,080
that we can make some savings. Key areas.

436
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,280
I really like doing everything and designing and project managing. Not necessarily project

437
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,560
managing, but working all the way through the project. So some clients will only want

438
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:18,080
you to design and then they'll take on the project. But I like being involved all the

439
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:24,720
way through because then you get that control and that ability to be able to value engineer,

440
00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:30,000
because you can just chuck everything in and just go, right, this is aspirational. What

441
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:37,800
can we do to make this work? If the client's got a budget of this, okay, so we want a living

442
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:43,560
green wall, but you know, we might not get a living green wall, but we might get a fake

443
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,920
green wall that's a really good quality one. So it looks great or a moss wall, or we might

444
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:54,160
get some wallpaper of a forest. You don't know, but you've still got that vibe. You

445
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:59,400
don't have to have, you don't have to spend a shit ton of money. I mean, this is a perfect

446
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:08,280
example of where we're sitting. So we've recycled absolutely everything to create this set.

447
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:17,640
But it's not about spending money, it's about being creative. And I think that's one of

448
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:29,600
the things that interior designers can give to people is that creative edge with things

449
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,720
where you don't necessarily have to spend a shit ton of money.

450
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:39,520
It's always nice though when you get a project where like... I mean, I don't think it's ever

451
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,240
happened. I don't know what I'm talking about. I was going to say, it's so nice when you

452
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:47,840
get a project where you've, you know, money's not an issue, no, you know, budget's not even

453
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:48,840
on the radar.

454
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:49,840
It's always on the radar.

455
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:58,840
What am I talking about? Exactly. I tell you what is really frustrating for me is that

456
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:05,240
when I talk to a client and they don't want to give that information to me, because it's

457
00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:10,520
quite an old, it's really old school way of looking at stuff, isn't it? Like if you know

458
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:18,160
what... You know, I wouldn't go into a shop to buy some clothes and say, and you know,

459
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,520
and someone says to me, oh, like, you know, what are you looking for? And I tell them

460
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,120
what I'm looking for. You know, I'm going out for dinner or whatever, you know, and

461
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,240
this is what I want. And okay, well, how much money are you looking to spend on this dress

462
00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:32,440
or whatever? Well, you tell me. Do you know what I mean?

463
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:33,440
I love that.

464
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:39,680
Will you tell me? Like, I just wouldn't. And design and every, I just, yeah, I don't know.

465
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:44,960
It's all a bit cloak and dagger for me. I'm like, just be honest. I'm not, I'm not, I'm

466
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:51,720
not, I'm not going to over design something for you. Or if you've got a really healthy

467
00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:58,600
budget to work to, it's not about taking the piss. It's about getting you what you want

468
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,520
for the best possible price.

469
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:07,600
But if you look at CDM management, budget is one of the things that is important to

470
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:12,760
be communicated in under CDM. So if you're doing construction design management and your

471
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:18,680
principal designer in the notes, I've got, I've got like a template, which I took off

472
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:25,280
when I did my CDM training in my briefs. Now all of my briefs have a CDM template. If anyone

473
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:31,520
wants it, just give me an email. But you answer certain questions and part of that is what

474
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:37,560
is the budget. Yeah. And you have to give it, give that you can't not do that. Yeah.

475
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:42,560
You can, but then you're stabbing in the dark. I have got a few little tricks though. When

476
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:47,360
people aren't giving me a budget, I do ask certain questions. And I really like this

477
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:52,480
one. It's, it's, if you were, if you were talking about a brand that you wanted to spend

478
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:57,600
money, so you're not going to give me a budget. Okay. Fine. Fair enough. What brand would

479
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:06,040
you say you were looking at to spend? Would you go Primark or would you go Primani? Or

480
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,600
would you go next or would you go BMW? Or would you go, you know, tell me a brand of

481
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:17,480
where you want to spend, you know, obviously if you're going Primark, you're going cheap

482
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:24,480
Ikea furniture in your office. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Which we wouldn't recommend

483
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:29,000
because it won't last five minutes, but you might have that if I don't think anyone's

484
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:38,360
ever ever employed me and said Primark, but they have said BMW and they have said, um,

485
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:45,480
I don't think anyone's ever said next. No one's ever said Armani. No one's ever said

486
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,520
Armani to me, but because those kinds of clients generally don't talk about budget. They just

487
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:57,000
go. They're just like, this is what I want. Yeah. Yeah. No, budget is important. And I

488
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:03,800
think the, the value engineering side of things, which we obviously the stage that we kind

489
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:10,560
of got to is that, yeah, it can be challenging, but it can be. I love it when you get to the

490
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:15,880
figure and you go, yes. Yeah. And you like tweaked it all. And you've got when you project

491
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,640
management and you've gone to each contractor and go out, can you, can you just shave a

492
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,480
little bit off or how can we cut a bit of this? And you have to do it all the way through.

493
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:28,320
Even if it's like 200 quid somewhere. Yeah. If you do that all the way through, you can

494
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:36,520
actually, there are some real highs in this role, isn't there? You know, from the initial

495
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:41,360
feeling of excitement from a design point of view in terms of concept through to development

496
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:47,520
of design through to the value engineering, which is a slight, it was just a different

497
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:54,120
vibe because it's more challenging, but then onto the delivery side of things, that feeling

498
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:59,120
that you get when you've delivered a project for the cost that you've done it for, or for

499
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:06,800
the client. And you know that what they've got is like, is awesome and really good value.

500
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:13,200
And it's been done really well and the quality is amazing and the value for monies is really

501
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:19,600
good. And it's, oh my God, we've, you know, we've, we've achieved that. We collectively,

502
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:26,360
the whole team from designers, architects, contractors, suppliers, the client, their

503
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:34,120
business, like everybody, like we've achieved that. That's awesome. When you do it, like

504
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,040
we were, we've just finishing off Southwell race course and they've invited me to ladies

505
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:44,760
day. But yeah, we've just, we're just finishing it up now and we're getting the final bits

506
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:52,160
delivered and it's just so nice. And we've had like, you know, everyone's kind of been

507
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,040
trying to pull in the same direction and I've been designing it while they're doing it,

508
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:00,800
which is really difficult. So hard. And you know, I sent through a design and then the

509
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,080
client would be like, no, I don't like that. And you know, it's like, you haven't actually

510
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:08,560
got time to, you haven't got time to change it now. I've had a few conversations like

511
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:14,520
that because it's so tough, you know, but, but actually everyone has really pulled in

512
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:20,280
the same direction on that project and it's been really satisfying to see that all come

513
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,960
together. The grandstand looks amazing. I worked really hard on the flooring in the

514
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:31,000
grandstand to get it really right. I'd put lots of different patterns in on, did Condeen,

515
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,600
put lots of different patterns on the floor and I love it so much. I like it when in there

516
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:40,480
when it was being laid, I was like, oh my God, it looks amazing. But yeah, that's, that's

517
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,320
the high, isn't it? When you, when you get to finish and some, some clients, the one

518
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,840
disappointing thing and I was talking to someone about this the other day is sometimes people

519
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:52,480
employ you, you do the design and you never see it. That you don't, when you don't project

520
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,280
around it or you don't see it all the way through. And I haven't got time to kind of

521
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,880
go around the country and, and do stuff if the client's not going to pay me to do, you

522
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:05,160
know, to help them finish it. Yeah. I'm, I could sort of ask for photos, I suppose, but

523
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,600
I'm just flying by the seat of my pants at the moment. We've got so much going on. Yeah.

524
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,920
I've just haven't got time to sort of chase all the ones that I've done, but it'd be lovely

525
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:18,200
to see if, if anyone's listening and they've worked with me and I haven't seen any photos,

526
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:26,360
please send them to me. Oh, no, it's good. I love it. It's cool. I mean, I'm not really

527
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:32,840
sure that we've given much in the way of, I don't feel like we've been very clear, Hayley,

528
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:37,120
with like the process. We haven't been very structured, have we? I don't think we should

529
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:42,000
really call it a process because it isn't, you know, it follows guidelines, doesn't it?

530
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:47,640
But it's, and you know, also, I guess there's an element of each designer, every designer

531
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,800
will do it slightly differently. I think that's the difficult thing about our industry is

532
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:57,880
that every designer is different. There's not like a way of working, a way of pricing,

533
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:05,600
you know, it's, I mean, the RIBA has really helped me with my, I price now on RIBA stages

534
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:13,200
and I get asked to price for RIBA stages as well. So, so that really helps me price things.

535
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:20,040
But, you know, it's, it's just about, it is such a vast industry. And also the qualifications

536
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,960
are, do you know what, I was listening to the interior design business podcast. On this

537
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,960
podcast, it was all about, and I would recommend if anyone's looking to get into interior design

538
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,280
that they, they listen to this because it was all about apprenticeships. They have now

539
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:39,080
got an interior design apprenticeship, which I am so happy about because I've had loads

540
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:44,400
of interior designers come in and as apprentices, and I've had to put them on a customer service

541
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,280
apprenticeship because they don't do an interior design one. And this lady-

542
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:52,800
To enable them to learn so that at least it's a way in for them, you mean? Yeah.

543
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:57,400
But I do get very, very frustrated with the education system in interior design because

544
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:02,040
you can just do a very short course and become an interior designer, or you can go to university

545
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:06,520
for a few years. But people who are coming out of university aren't getting taught things

546
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,200
like LRV, CDM- Yeah, we were talking to Lily, weren't you,

547
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,160
upstairs about it? Lily's at uni, she doesn't know any of that.

548
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:17,520
And she's, so Lily, who's working for Harp at the moment, she's doing the summer holidays.

549
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:24,960
She's brilliant, but she doesn't know things that I think they should be teaching her in

550
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,520
uni. She's brilliant at software. She's doing really well with software.

551
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:33,760
But you know what? I think actually a lot of interior designers come from different,

552
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:38,420
they come about through other areas. Do you know what I mean? So my training was never

553
00:47:38,420 --> 00:47:44,080
in interior design. My training was, my degree was architecture. So I had an understanding

554
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:51,280
of architecture, which then led me to interior design. And it was a kind of self-learning

555
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:56,520
process, because, but that's not a bad thing because-

556
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,040
No. The skills that I've got and the knowledge

557
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:04,800
that I've got from an architectural point of view gives me a different, it's a slightly

558
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:10,980
different perspective than just going to college or uni and doing an interior design course

559
00:48:10,980 --> 00:48:18,800
that's very specific. I feel like actually it's not necessarily a bad thing because it

560
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:23,120
means that the type of designers you get are much broader because their knowledge is different

561
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:29,240
and broader. Do you know what I mean? But at the same time, I'm with you, that there

562
00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:36,920
is key things that need to be taught. LRVs, CDM, like if anyone doesn't know what

563
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:42,280
that means is light reflectance values, which is really important for critical surfaces

564
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:47,440
if you're designing for public spaces, and CDM, construction design management, which

565
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:55,400
if you're a principal designer, you might be needing that.

566
00:48:55,400 --> 00:49:00,160
Even if you're not principal designer, it's still so important to be aware of what the

567
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:06,040
responsibilities are in terms of your design and what you are designing and how you're

568
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,560
designing and how you're managing that design or how the design is being managed.

569
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:14,040
I suppose if you're an interior designer or you're a client, you need to know about CDM

570
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,880
if you're doing any construction. It's a legal requirement.

571
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:22,640
It's legal, yeah. Even a domestic house.

572
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,440
Yeah. If you've got more than one contractor.

573
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:31,640
And this is what I find really interesting. Yeah, if you... welfare facilities under

574
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:36,840
CDM rules, even if you have a plumber come in or a heating engineer come in and service

575
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:46,600
your boiler, there is a responsibility on you as the client, as the customer, to manage

576
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:51,120
the CDM. The rule is that you have to have... if you

577
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:57,760
have more than one contractor on site at any one time, you need CDM. So a lot of domestic

578
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:03,000
projects the contractor will take on principal designer and principal contractor role because

579
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,440
designers... and I've worked with a couple of residential designers who had no idea what

580
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:12,760
CDM was. But actually, as a designer, even if you're not taking on that role, you need

581
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:17,080
to say in your terms and conditions, you're not taking on that role because otherwise

582
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,600
it might be assumed that you're taking on that role.

583
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,680
And the client needs to make sure that they know their legal responsibilities and you

584
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:28,140
have to... well, every project that I quote for, I always send through the responsibilities

585
00:50:28,140 --> 00:50:35,080
so the client's aware of it. But yeah, CDM is a minefield.

586
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:40,200
We should do a podcast on that. Yeah, definitely. We need a CDM advisor.

587
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:45,800
We should speak to Daniel Connell. I have already. I've got him.

588
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,920
Who? Tristan? No, Jonathan Rensink.

589
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:53,720
Oh, let's get him in. Yeah, he's brilliant. He said he'd do it.

590
00:50:53,720 --> 00:50:59,120
I think we should definitely do that. I think that's huge.

591
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,280
So next podcast is Pippa. In September?

592
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,320
I don't know if I'll be editing it by September, but yeah.

593
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:10,640
Forget about what time of the year it is, what month it is.

594
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:14,680
I'll try and edit it as soon as it comes. Yeah, Pippa.

595
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,840
Pippa's going to be good. Who knows where it will go, what we'll be

596
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:25,920
discussing. I mean, I kind of love that about... yeah.

597
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:36,520
I quite like having these episodes where it's not so structured about... the product side

598
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:45,400
of things is great, but yeah, it's quite nice just to have a bit of a debate about stuff,

599
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,200
isn't it? Yeah, go deep.

600
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,280
Ha ha. No.

601
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,800
Of course I do. Sorry.

602
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,200
Sorry. No.

603
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:01,200
Love your laugh.

604
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:12,080
Oh, well, yeah, if we haven't confused you, hopefully you have enjoyed listening to us

605
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:16,760
talking about the process. Yeah.

606
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:23,200
And let's do it again. Let's do the... thank you for joining us

607
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:27,720
on the Interior Design Podcast. If you liked this episode, please like, share

608
00:52:27,720 --> 00:52:33,040
and leave us a review. We're on Facebook and Instagram at interiordesign.podcast

609
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:37,840
and on LinkedIn as Interior Design Podcast. We really value your feedback. So if you have

610
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,880
any ideas on topics that you'd like us to cover or people you would like us to interview,

611
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:46,000
please do get in touch. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next

612
00:52:46,000 --> 00:53:13,000
time.